In this episode, we re joined by Taiwan s Cyber Ambassador, Audrey Tang, to discuss the need for social media platforms that create a sense of collaborative community engagement as opposed to authoritarianism and true free speech. We re also joined by the First Minister of Digital Affairs of Taiwan, Autry Tang, who serves as Taiwan's Cyber Ambassador.
00:26:22.000You may have noticed that there are anti-Trump and anti-Elon Musk and anti-Doge protests all across the country popping up all over the place.
00:26:31.000We just had President's Day on Monday.
00:26:34.000And as a result, we saw all of these coordinated left-wing protests all around the country.
00:26:39.000And the big question that everybody is asking is, It's like a resistance 2.0.
00:26:50.000We saw during the first term of President Trump's first administration, there was a very well-organized and well-funded resistance movement.
00:27:00.000And so we've been doing a lot of digging here at Loomer Unleashed into the funding sources and the people who are behind these new protests and these new movements that are popping up all across the country.
00:27:13.000So we're going to get into that tonight.
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00:28:12.000In about 10 minutes, we're going to be joined by Taiwan's cyber ambassador, Audrey Tang, who's going to talk about a new paper that she just published regarding the understanding of engagement, designing platforms that bring us together.
00:28:30.000So Audrey, as I said before, is Taiwan's cyber ambassador, and we're going to have a conversation tonight about the need for social media platforms that create a sense of collaborative community engagement as opposed to authoritarianism and how true free speech and decentralization and we're going to have a conversation tonight about the need for social media platforms that create a sense of collaborative community engagement as opposed to authoritarianism and how true free speech and
00:29:11.000This is a story about how digital tools helped government officials regain the trust of the electorate, but it's not a science fiction tale about a future reunited States of America.
00:29:21.000Instead, it's a story about Taiwan, as told by Autry Tang, the country's first minister of digital affairs and first transgender cabinet minister.
00:29:31.000It is not inevitable for social media to polarize people.
00:29:34.000Tang, who now serves as Taiwan's cyber ambassador at large, said this week at Town Hall Seattle.
00:29:40.000We just saw that Autry was also in Munich, where, of course, J.D. Vance spoke, and we saw a gathering of world leaders, so we're going to be asking Autry about that.
00:29:54.000But, you know, Taiwan's in a unique situation.
00:29:58.000Because they're constantly under threat of occupation by China, which of course is a pro-censorship regime.
00:30:05.000And so I'm looking forward to having Autry on to talk about the greatest threat, in her opinion, to free speech and how people all around the world can use tools of social media.
00:30:18.000To fight for their freedom and, like I said before, fight back against authoritarianism.
00:30:22.000Because if there's one thing that we've seen all around the world, and it should be evident from the speech that J.D. Vance gave, and I'm sure we can find some clips from J.D. Vance and his speech in Munich over these last few days at the security conference where he attacked European leaders and officials all around the world for...
00:30:43.000Not supporting the values of freedom of expression and not supporting free speech.
00:30:48.000I posted a clip from his speech the other day on my Twitter account and it went pretty viral.
00:30:55.000I know we're going to play it for you momentarily.
00:30:59.000There really is an assault on free speech and freedom of expression around the world.
00:31:03.000We're seeing that social media platforms are blocking out certain access to certain pages and certain individuals, depending on whether that country finds the speech to be hateful or a violation.
00:31:15.000As J.D. Vance said, while speaking in Munich, you have people that are literally going to jail for posting memes.
00:31:22.000So how does the United States, how are we going to have a cordial relationship with countries that are pro-censorship or are trying to use people's social media presence as a way to silence them and censor them?
00:31:54.000And, you know, one of the things that I wanted to talk about today is, of course, our shared values.
00:32:01.000And, you know, it's great to be back in Germany, as you heard earlier.
00:32:04.000I was here last year as United States Senator.
00:32:07.000I saw Foreign Minister, excuse me, Foreign Secretary David Lammy and joked that both of us last year had different jobs than we have now.
00:32:13.000But now it's time for all of our countries, for all of us who have been...
00:32:18.000We're fortunate enough to be given political power by our respective peoples to use it wisely to improve their lives.
00:32:25.000And I want to say that, you know, I was fortunate in my time here to spend some time outside the walls of this conference over the last 24 hours.
00:32:34.000And I've been so impressed by the hospitality of the people, even, of course, as they're reeling from yesterday's horrendous attack.
00:32:43.000And the first time I was ever in Munich was with my wife, actually, who's here with me today, on a personal trip.
00:32:50.000And I've always loved the city of Munich, and I've always loved its people.
00:32:54.000And I just want to say that we're very moved, and our thoughts and prayers are with Munich and everybody affected by the evil inflicted on this beautiful community.
00:34:05.000From some of its most fundamental values, values shared with the United States of America.
00:34:11.000Now, I was struck that a former European commissioner went on television recently and sounded delighted that the Romanian government had just annulled an entire election.
00:34:22.000He warned that if things don't go to plan, the very same thing could happen in Germany, too.
00:34:30.000Now these cavalier statements are shocking to American ears.
00:34:34.000For years, we've been told that everything we fund and support is in the name of our shared democratic values.
00:34:42.000Everything from our Ukraine policy to digital censorship is billed as a defense of democracy.
00:34:51.000But when we see European courts cancelling elections and senior officials threatening to cancel others, we ought to ask whether we're holding ourselves to an appropriately high standard.
00:35:02.000And I say ourselves because I fundamentally believe that we are on the same team.
00:35:07.000We must do more than talk about democratic values.
00:35:13.000Now within living memory of many of you in this room, the Cold War positioned defenders of democracy against much more tyrannical forces on this continent.
00:35:24.000And consider the side in that fight that censored dissidents, that closed churches, that canceled elections.
00:35:39.000They lost because they neither valued nor respected all of the extraordinary blessings of liberty.
00:35:45.000The freedom to surprise, to make mistakes, to invent, to build.
00:35:51.000As it turns out, you can't mandate innovation or creativity just as you can't force people what to think, what to feel, or what to believe.
00:36:00.000And we believe those things are certainly connected.
00:36:04.000And unfortunately, when I look at Europe today, it's sometimes not so clear what happened to some of the Cold War's winners.
00:36:12.000I look to Brussels, where EU commissars warn citizens that they intend to shut down social media during times of civil unrest the moment they spot what they've judged to be, quote, hateful content.
00:36:29.000Where police have carried out raids against citizens suspected of posting anti-feminist comments online as part of, quote, combating misogyny on the internet, a day of action.
00:36:41.000I look to Sweden, where two weeks ago the government convicted a Christian activist for participating in Koran burnings that resulted in his friend's murder.
00:36:52.000And as the judge in his case chillingly noted, Sweden's laws to supposedly protect free expression do not, in fact, grant, and I'm quoting, a free pass to do or say anything without risking offending the group that holds that belief.
00:37:11.000And perhaps most concerningly, I look to our very dear friends, the United Kingdom, where the backslide away from conscience rights has placed the basic liberties of religious Britons, in particular, in the crosshairs.
00:37:24.000A little over two years ago, the British government charged Adam Smith Connor, a 51-year-old physiotherapist and an Army veteran, with the heinous crime of standing 50 meters from an abortion clinic and silently praying for three minutes.
00:37:41.000Not obstructing anyone, not interacting with anyone, just silently praying on his own.
00:37:51.000Autry Tane is going to be joining us momentarily, and I want to get her reaction because not only was she in attendance at the Munich Security Conference, but also spoke there as well on behalf of Taiwan.
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00:40:18.000Half past 10 and really happy to share with you some thoughts around the freedom of speech.
00:40:25.000We, of course, support robust uncensored discourse from Taiwan because we suffer from martial law and also, of course, resisting authoritarian censorship.
00:40:36.000So you are Taiwan's cyber ambassador and you are also Taiwan's first ever digital affairs minister from 2022 to 2024. And I think it's an interesting concept because only now here in the United States do we have somebody who is fulfilling a similar role.
00:40:55.000I guess people would describe you as the tech support, right?
00:41:08.000It's a self-proclaimed position of White House tech support or national tech support.
00:41:16.000Can you explain to the viewers what you do in your position as Taiwan cyber ambassador and what your position as the digital affairs minister involves?
00:41:26.000Because I think that that's a unique position to Taiwan that we don't really see in other places around the world.
00:41:43.000And it followed an event in Taiwan's history we call the Sunflower Movement in March 2014. At the time, many people who were unhappy with this trade deal with Beijing that would have invited them into our media, into our communication network, and so on, took the matter to our own hands.
00:42:03.000So we peacefully occupied Parliament for three weeks, calling for reform.
00:42:08.000And also we call ourselves demonstrators, not just protesters, because we want to show that it is possible in a way that is transparent, that's not censored, to have an all-of-society conversation around these matters.
00:42:20.000And so at the end of that year, I was invited to basically play that role, but online.
00:42:27.000And so building systems where people can have unfiltered access and conversations without getting censored by social media at the time, big tech at the time, so that we can determine policies together.
00:42:39.000So we not only resolved issues, for example, around Uber and workers' rights and so on, but also we tackled the disinformation attack, the polarization attacks coming from our authoritarian neighbor.
00:42:52.000And we also shortened the tax filing process from three hours into like three minutes.
00:43:01.000Again, tapping into the wisdom of the crowd by anyone who contributes ideas.
00:43:07.000And we publish also transparently the government spendings, procurements, so that people can comment freely on it.
00:43:14.000Very interesting, and of course, that's a position that I wish we would have had here in the United States of America years ago, because we've seen now, finally, there seems to be a focus on free speech, and especially now that we're seeing the political vindication of President Trump with his re-election after we witnessed the shocking censorship during a presidential election in 2020 and the shocking act of deplatforming of a sitting United States president.
00:43:44.000The big tech social media companies, of course in 2021. I'd like to see that there's now a renewed focus on free speech and the creation of platforms, but I still think that there are challenges here, not just in Taiwan, not just in other parts of the world.
00:44:03.000We saw this discussed at length, and it became a point of controversy during the Munich Security Council, given the fact that J.D. Vance put most of the European attendees on full blast on the international stage there, condemning them by name.
00:44:19.000For individual acts of censorship and authoritarianism.
00:44:23.000And I know that one of the things that you're most focused on, and you recently released a paper on this, and you have a film coming out about this as well, is a way that these social media platforms can help support communities through transparency and through open source technology as a way to combat not only censorship, but also authoritarianism.
00:44:45.000And so, given that you not only attended the Munich Security Conference, but You also spoke on behalf of Taiwan.
00:44:51.000What were your thoughts of JD Vance's speech?
00:45:11.000So I spoke at the Munich cybersecurity conference, which was one day before the security conference.
00:45:17.000But I did, of course, like everybody else, listen to your vice president's speech.
00:45:23.000I think in Taiwan, because we're the most free in all of Asia in terms of Internet freedom, including freedom of expression and so on, we do not believe that there is a tradeoff to be made between security on one side and freedom on the other.
00:45:39.000There are many jurisdictions that believe in order to have safety, have security and so on, you have to give in a little bit on freedom, like you have to censor some speech in the name of safety and security.
00:45:53.000But in Taiwan, we have found that if you make sure that it is the communities themselves Making the moderation work instead of delegating it into experts or some third party people controlled by big tech, it is actually resulting in much more robust resilience.
00:46:14.000That is to say, instead of not seeing the attack or polarization and so on, people learn to identify these as robots, trolls and things like that.
00:46:25.000People can have a shared understanding of what is And so to your other question about the role social media plays today.
00:46:50.000So I'm advising the Project Liberty Institute and we're redesigning the ideas around communities online.
00:46:58.000So that we can build upon what's called open source or free software, decentralized systems, so that if you are not happy with any particular policy that social media runs, you can keep your content, keep your relationship, keep your social graph, and then just migrate to some other communities where you can then have your own conversation and moderation rules.
00:47:20.000And so we're advising also the team about the people's bid, trying to buy TikTok with...
00:47:27.000Eric McCord and O'Leary are leading the bid to turn TikTok into something like this, where the moderation rules are not determined by a far-off entity, but rather by individual communities.
00:47:39.000So how would your system differ from a system like Facebook's fact checkers or what now is described as the X community note system?
00:47:48.000Because some people have argued, and we have seen this firsthand, how these systems, while they have come with good intentions, originally kind of like this idea that it's going to be a collaborative effort with people identifying things that are obvious lies or misinformation or, you know, putting in their input.
00:48:09.000Or Meta has created partisan advisory boards full of mostly leftist activists, for example, that weaponized the fact-checking system and used it to impose fake science or revisionist history.
00:48:22.000And some people have also made the same argument for the community note system on X, arguing that there's only a select few people who can actually participate in the community note system, which means that it's not as open source or as decentralized or open to the public which means that it's not as open source or as decentralized or open to the public as it may
00:48:44.000So how would you say that your system of doing things is different from Meta's fact checkers or Facebook's community note or X's community notes?
00:49:00.000One is that we're replacing top-down decisions with a community-based button-up approach.
00:49:08.000And so instead of the secret panels where you really do not know who they are, deciding who to silence, the idea is that each community can decide what content they value.
00:49:21.000It's basically decentralizing the decision making, not just the technical apparatus.
00:49:25.000And the second thing is that it is based on more speech instead of less speech.
00:49:31.000The idea of our system is that you simply see more labels, like what ideas are gaining common ground in your communities and what ideas remain divisive, but how it is debated.
00:49:43.000But these labels are not taking anything down.
00:49:46.000You're simply given more context about who supports it and why.
00:49:50.000And so that is the opposite of censorship.
00:49:59.000Given what you just said, how was your own reaction to J.D. Vance's speech?
00:50:05.000Did you find yourself agreeing with most of what he said or did you find yourself disagreeing with elements of it or do you agree that we've seen a degradation and kind of an assault on free speech and freedom of expression in Europe?
00:50:20.000Well, I think the Romania case that he basically shares with the audience, that is also a case that I often make, which is we need to strengthen democracy so it is not easily overtaken or overwhelmed by bots, by polarization attacks from authoritarian regimes.
00:50:39.000So in that message, I think we're very much in sync.
00:50:42.000I think many of the European audience...
00:50:46.000Basically, are trying to come up with what we have already discovered in Taiwan, which is a more robust and more open and transparent way of basically making sure that people understand what's going on.
00:51:00.000Additional context is actually better in terms of defending against such polarization and infiltration attacks, troll attacks, and so on.
00:51:10.000Misclassifying some humans as trolls and then therefore silencing their speech.
00:51:15.000And because in doing so, then you weaken the social fabric, you weaken the strengths of different people with different opinions.
00:51:22.000And so I think the Vance speech outlines...
00:51:27.000And then I think the technological idea here is that we need to make sure that the communities have the moderation in their own hands instead of just making sure that one single state actor or one single big tech actor does that.
00:51:40.000Because as long as it's centralized in one decision maker, I think that this false trade-off will inevitably happen.
00:51:49.000You mentioned the sunflower movement in Taiwan.
00:51:51.000And so I wanted to get your take on this because what we saw here in the United States was a crackdown on free speech and a movement to increase censorship here in the United States when we had our own January 6th protests at the United States Capitol.
00:52:08.000Now, the left would argue that they were violent.
00:52:11.000The right would say that they were peaceful protests, given the fact that...
00:52:15.000You know, nobody used any weapons and they were just Trump supporters simply occupying what we call here the People's House, right?
00:52:23.000The United States Capitol, which is paid for by the U.S. taxpayers.
00:52:31.000That was the defining moment that really resulted in the deplatforming of Donald Trump and the creation of new pro-censorship policies by the big tech social media companies here in America to not only silence world leaders, but also silence half of the country and really crack down on political speech.
00:52:49.000Did you see similar things happen when you had the occupation of your own government buildings in Taiwan during the The Sunflower Movement because it's interesting to see how All around the world, right, there have been protest movements where citizens have occupied political buildings, and yet the reactions have been so drastic.
00:53:11.000I mean, here in the United States, you had politicians like Kamala Harris actually saying that January 6th was worse than Pearl Harbor or worse than 9-11, right, when thousands of people lost their lives in acts of terrorism.
00:53:25.000And so how would you compare and contrast something like Taiwan's sunflower movement to the January 6th protest?
00:53:34.000Well, back in 2014, I believe that we were even more Divided and angry.
00:53:41.000The approval rate at the time was 9% for the president at the time.
00:53:47.000That is to say, in a country with 24 million people, anything that the president says, like 20 million people against him.
00:53:54.000And so I think that was even more drastic.
00:53:57.000I think one contrast I will draw is that we said In the beginning, that we're not just demanding something or protesting something.
00:54:07.000Rather, we're from the demand side moving to the supply side, the tech support side, by demonstrating that it is possible for people to come up with better trade deal policy ideas instead of just the one that's being ran through, or that people can come up with better thoughts around how to protect our information ecosystem.
00:54:30.000From the invasions, right, of communist authoritarian ideas and so on.
00:54:35.000And so by very quickly positioning ourselves into demonstrators, not just protesters, I think that is how the energy has been different and resulted in Sunflower being one of the very rare Occupy that resulted in the Speaker of the Parliament basically said, okay, the people's idea do have a point, let's accept their ideas.
00:54:55.000And so that was the Occupy that converged instead of diverged over time.
00:55:01.000You have a paper that you've published, Understanding Over Engagement, Designing Platforms to Bring Us Together, where you talk about how we need to be focused on creating these platforms and supporting the creation of social media platforms to support communities and build up communities and freedom of speech, but also to combat authoritarianism.
00:55:24.000Do you feel that now more than ever, or...
00:55:28.000Perhaps we're seeing a decrease in authoritarianism, but is it your opinion that with the rise of technology, we're seeing an increased threat of global authoritarianism or a decreased threat of global authoritarianism?
00:55:42.000Yeah, I think for authoritarians, their main idea really is to spread this freedom only leads to chaos, freedom only leads to infighting, freedom never leads to something that delivers.
00:55:55.000That meta-narrative really is their justification for locking down and shutting down and taking down stuff, right?
00:56:05.000To combat that, what we need is to build a resilient society that, for example, if you subscribe to content that supports traditional values and you see a post that's labeled like it's a shared ground among Christian conservatives and so on, and then you see some very trollish attacks from maybe a libertarian angle and so on.
00:56:28.000And so that's when the slowing of discord happens in those polarization attacks.
00:56:33.000So nowadays, the tactics from authoritarians is no longer taking down things, but rather populating it with even more message that creates this false sense of consensus like, oh, there's so much infighting and chaos.
00:56:46.000But with our system, you can see a very clear label that this is a sure ground.
00:56:51.000And there's also different perspectives among libertarians and so on. - Yeah, and I would agree with that because what we're seeing now is echo chambers And even though I would say that X has I mean, I've been censored on Twitter 1.0 and I've also been censored on Twitter 2.0.
00:57:08.000So I've been censored by Jack Dorsey and I've been censored by Elon Musk.
00:57:12.000But one thing that you said in your paper that I found to be really interesting is you said, with a deeply polarizing U.S. election fresh in mind, the need to redesign platforms that bridge divides has never been more urgent.
00:57:23.000In a paper we've just released, we offer a solution based on one that has already played a pivotal role in addressing similar problems in Taiwan and on X. And you're right.
00:57:32.000What's happened now is that even though I would say there's more free speech on Twitter 2.0 than we saw on Twitter 1.0, you have echo chambers where you have people on the left because of the polarizing election and because Elon Musk gave $270 million to support the presidential election in support of Donald Trump, they're now all flocking.
00:57:52.000Where if you're a conservative like I am and you're going on Blue Sky, you're barely going to have an audience because it seems like social media now has divided itself into these echo chambers.
00:58:05.000X, of course, I think picked up a lot of support, especially in the aftermath of Meta censoring so many people during the election.
00:58:13.000But now you're seeing this rebrand effort, whether it's genuine or not, by Mark Zuckerberg to try to rebrand Meta.
00:58:22.000You talk about how, what if instead, this is another quote from your paper, instead of amplifying posts that spread misinformation or fuel outrage and division, social media platforms empowered their users to promote content that they value and that brings their communities together.
00:58:36.000What if instead of leaving content moderation to sensorial governments or the political whims of tech billionaires, platforms allowed users to provide context that fosters understanding and strengthens their communities?
00:58:47.000It's an interesting concept because We have seen this accusation from the left.
00:58:53.000They'll say things like, oh, Elon Musk simply amplifies content that's like fuel outrage or rage bait for the conservative movement.
00:59:00.000But then you'll see people say the opposite, right?
00:59:04.000They said the same thing about Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook when Facebook was largely controlled by leftists.
00:59:12.000Do you find that if we were to have this content moderation system where it was not up to tech billionaires or governments to decide what terms of service should be like we're seeing with the European Union now in their attacks on free speech and the way that they're trying to create this, I guess you would say like a European Union standard for how content should be moderated.
00:59:37.000I feel like we would have more peaceful discourse online and there would probably be less social animus and less hostility and less political divisions if people felt like neither political ideology was being overamplified.
00:59:54.000Because I think that we've all found ourselves on both sides of the aisle.
00:59:59.000Certainly, pre-Twitter 2.0, I found myself accusing big tech social media companies of being more left-leaning.
01:00:06.000And even now, right, I find myself criticizing and often questioning the amount of power and influence that tech billionaires have because I still find myself censored even though Trump is president.
01:00:18.000Yeah, and I have just registered on TrueSocial.
01:00:24.000And I do feel that it has a much more of a community spirit where users do feel they have more control and less likely actually to abandon the platform when they don't feel that the decision-making and sensorial decisions and so on are managed by one person or a few persons, right?
01:00:42.000So I think that fosters genuine community conversations.
01:00:47.000The main technical question we're facing is whether this individual platform, such as TrueSocial, which is, by the way, free software, open source, and BlueSky, also free software, open source, whether it is possible to build relevant bridges so that it is not just the community nodes, which already happens after something that is very...
01:01:09.000Polarizing, very angry when viral, right?
01:01:12.000So how about community posts, not just community notes, and that you can post on your own communities on either TrueSocial, BlueSky or other open source communities.
01:01:21.000But then you then also have this additional label that does show that it is a common ground across all those different smaller platforms.
01:01:29.000And that, I think, will give the people much more control and much more understanding of each other beyond the models that is prototyped.
01:01:43.000Because I know you've talked about this idea, right?
01:01:46.000It's a concept that sounds ideal, right?
01:01:50.000This idea that people would have a community partnership in deciding what is true information, what is disinformation.
01:01:57.000But it still seems, as you just said, that these systems that have been created by X or have been created by Meta Are still not ideal because they still find themselves, you know, being influenced, in my opinion at least, by the political ideology.
01:02:14.000I often find myself wondering, like, who the hell is in control of community notes or who's in control of fact-checking?
01:02:20.000Because sometimes I see these community notes or fact-checks and they are just as absurd as the claims being made.
01:02:27.000Yeah, and over and over again, we have seen that it is currently in the advertisement field models.
01:02:35.000Only the advertisers, and especially very big advertisers, get to see the social fabric.
01:02:44.000You know, voted for, well, liked the same content, people who share similar content and so on.
01:02:50.000But that information is not made available to individual people.
01:02:54.000It is just made to the people who basically make the individualized advertisements so that it even derails us from the shared common experience even more because everybody was seeing different precision targeting of advertisements.
01:03:08.000So part of the paper is to imagine a different funding model where the communities can fund shared common experiences so that people think of the shared posts that bring the different communities together.
01:03:21.000Like in the example I just gave, if there's a post or there's a piece of video that could explain the more conservative angle to the libertarians and so on.
01:03:31.000And then for people who belong in those communities to have a way to bring those together.
01:03:38.000Instead of debunking after the fact, we can have shared narratives before something that is fueled by hate or outrage.
01:03:45.000And again, it doesn't require censorship at all.
01:03:48.000It just requires building more bridge-making content.
01:03:51.000And so if people are interested in learning more about The People's Bid, thepeaceofpostbid.com has these ideas laid out on how it could be applied to TikTok if, of course, The People's Bid won the bid.
01:04:04.000But for the underlying ideas, there's also a book, plurality.net, that I co-wrote with 60 other people.
01:04:29.000It's called Good Enough Ancestor, and it tells the story of Taiwan's democratization because I was born into a family of journalists.
01:04:38.000My parents are both journalists, and they had to work within the martial law era's rules, which is very sensorial.
01:04:46.000And by the time we really democratized, 1996, when we had our first presidential election, that is already the time of the browsers, of the World Wide Web, and so on.
01:04:56.000So from the very beginning, Internet freedom and our democratic freedom both are the same thing in Taiwan.
01:05:03.000And so we innovated a lot on how to defend our democracies without sacrificing our freedom.
01:05:09.000Because even though our own martial law era is over, there's still authoritarian neighbors to Taiwan from Beijing that still want to push this authoritarian agenda.
01:05:31.000You said, instead of removing or shadow banning controversial content, Platforms should empower participants to help offer meaningful context.
01:05:38.000This could include clearly showing which communities embrace certain views or watch certain videos and labeling content as shared ground when it reflects widely accepted perspectives or different perspectives when it's more controversial.
01:05:51.000And so how would you, how would you, or I guess I should say, where would you draw the line?
01:05:59.000Because here in America, you have people that argue that certain content is hate speech, even though there's no such thing as hate speech because there's no hate speech exemption as it relates to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.
01:06:13.000And so it's very subjective and it's become very political and partisan in nature because you have people who now have a distorted understanding of what the First Amendment means and the grounds of the First Amendment.
01:06:26.000The First Amendment does not protect incitement of violence or terroristic threats, but where would you draw the line as it relates to this system of creating shared ground policies for content moderation?
01:06:50.000Would you allow for things like For example, things that would automatically get you banned on social media like child porn or things like terroristic threats or support for groups like ISIS. Would this system allow for things like that to exist but with extreme social pressure so that the moderation would signal to society that this content is wrong or...
01:07:17.000It's shameful or something that should not be tolerated?
01:07:20.000Or would this system, given the fact that you're aiming for total decentralization, would it completely ban or silence content like that?
01:07:31.000Yeah, so I was also in Paris for the AI Action Summit, where we launched the Roost, the robust open online safety tools.
01:07:41.000And part of the Roost idea is that the defense against these attacks That are clearly unlawful, should be open source and decentralized as well.
01:07:53.000So for example, the child sexual abuse material that you mentioned is illegal to host, right?
01:08:00.000So this is not a matter of lawful or awful speech.
01:08:07.000And for that, currently, we also rely on the largest of the big tech to tell whether that is the same material or not.
01:08:15.000Not only do small operators have to pay And so the idea of Roost is to, again, decentralize.
01:08:31.000Even small time hosters of content can very easily, automatically detect such unlawful content.
01:08:38.000And so it doesn't require the community vote even.
01:08:41.000But if you want to tune, you want to update and so on, you can do so without violating either some NDA or speak tech or violating any law.
01:08:50.000So I think the free expression is required.
01:08:54.000But underneath that, we need the robust online safety tools that detects Unlawful, not just awful content.
01:09:02.000So not awful content at all, but just unlawful content and can do so in a way that makes sure that the smaller operators can remain economic to run.
01:09:12.000But above that level, anything that is lawful, I do feel that we need to have both the fear support for free expression and a practical method.
01:09:22.000For communities to own the moderation tools so that the algorithmic manipulation cannot make the false virality of the faked polarization that wasn't there, but it was just one idea that was amplified because of the polarization attacks.
01:09:38.000But to do that, we don't need to censor anything.
01:09:41.000All we need is to share with communities a way to shape their own social media reality.
01:09:47.000Again, by making sure there's a freedom first way to label something as And you talk about a lot of this in your book, Plurality, the Future of Collaborative.
01:10:12.000So I would encourage that people check it out.
01:10:14.000But we also have a trailer for your film.
01:10:18.000And so just before we play the trailer for Good Enough Ancestor, I wanted to just give you a moment to tell the viewers what inspired you to make this film, when it comes out, and why people should watch the film.
01:10:31.000So I think the message here is that technology must advance freedom.
01:10:37.000Something that we really believe in in Taiwan, and we believe that America can also make this vision, amplify this vision a reality so that people do not need to trade off between freedom on one side and safety or security on the other, but rather using technology to enhance freedom in a way that puts the steering wheel, puts the reins into the hands of individuals and communities.
01:11:04.000Let me go ahead and play the trailer for the film.
01:11:09.000Across the world, democracy is on a decline.
01:12:06.000Everybody saw it is possible for democracy to evolve, to come up with novel policies simply by asking the people what should we do together.
01:12:17.000I was born with a heart defect and one day I just fainted.
01:12:27.000I woke up in a hospital and they told me the hole in my heart has grown.
01:14:21.000And one thing I want to ask you, and it's a personal question, so you don't have to answer, but hopefully you will answer the question.
01:14:29.000But we've seen that a lot of the social moderation and a lot of the efforts to censor content online has been driven by the woke left, at least here in America.
01:14:41.000And some of the people and some of the groups that have been behind a lot of the censorship on these social media platforms, Have done so at the request of LGBTQ organizations.
01:14:55.000And what I find to be rather interesting about you is that not only are you Taiwan's first digital minister, but you're the world's first also transgender minister.
01:15:07.000Given the fact that so many people in the LGBT community have pushed for censorship in terms of advocating for censorship of language or content that they think is disrespectful to the trans movement or the LGBTQ movement.
01:15:23.000What kind of attacks have you received personally from individuals in that community who maybe have accused you of fostering a community of hate simply because you are, it seems to be, pushing for true free speech absolutism, which also means allowing for people to say things that may be offensive to you?
01:15:42.000Well, I mean, I was born with the condition of very low testosterone.
01:15:47.000So it is true that I am somewhat between, naturally.
01:16:14.000Now, to your more serious question, I do think the absolute freedom of speech and mutual respect can coexist.
01:16:24.000The main problem was that in the broadcast-based social media, only the most viral ideas or the viral takes gets viral.
01:16:34.000And then people do not actually think that there's the other common sense, middle ground ideas that could have bridged the different communities together in a kind of mutual respect.
01:16:46.000And so each side caricature the other side as the worst version of that side and therefore makes it much harder than to have common sense conversations.
01:16:56.000And so do you ever find yourself receiving attacks for being a free speech absolutist or attacks from within, you know, certain communities for advocating for, you know, true free speech?
01:17:08.000Because we have seen there are efforts, especially within the algorithms, as you're mentioning, this algorithmic manipulation to silence and censor certain people based off their use of certain words or what some people would call slurs, right?
01:17:22.000Like anti-gay or anti-transgender or racist slurs.
01:17:26.000And so what I guess what kind of challenges have you faced personally from people in the free speech or technology community for your perseverance and also your dedication to having true free speech?
01:17:43.000Because we see a lot of people out there like to claim that they are for free speech.
01:17:50.000Like, people sometimes censor whether you offend them.
01:17:53.000Like, we're told that X is truly a free speech platform, but many people found themselves being censored by Elon Musk because they simply got in a heated argument with him about H-1B visas or had a disagreement with him.
01:18:06.000And so while there's claims and accusations and statements made by a lot of people that they truly are 100% pro-free speech, we always see that there's a little...
01:18:17.000So I just wondered if you've been attached personally for promoting free speech absolutism and total decentralization in this approach to shared ground moderation, given your own personal background.
01:18:34.000Yeah, and as we speak, I think there's a very robust conversation going on in the Rumble chatroom, which I'm reading.
01:18:43.000And I think it's really good that we then have ways to directly address people's questions, right?
01:19:09.000And so I think it is quite important that we have this direct.
01:19:14.000Because only direct conversations can build true bridges.
01:19:18.000If people only read one snapshot, one clip from the other, then those awful but lawful speeches may look like representing entire communities, but there's no real dialogue.
01:19:29.000So my answer to your direct question is that I do believe free speech is not just a speech to broadcast.
01:19:40.000It is also about the freedom to listen across differences and then respond in real time.
01:19:46.000And if we have that freedom, then it's much harder to caricature the other side.
01:19:50.000And then it's basically easier than to resolve some of the tensions and some of the people's ideologies who then ask them to draw intolerant conclusions and so on.
01:20:04.000So I think the fact that we have the chat here is a proof that Absolute free speech and real-time response actually works better when we want to communicate around such things.
01:20:15.000I was just saying that I do find it to be admirable because you see a lot of big talk from people in this space who, you know, they say that they truly support free speech, but as soon as you say something that, you know, goes against their personal views or their, you know, personal preferences or their political ideology, you learn very quickly that they're not for free speech.
01:20:35.000I want to go to the chat and take a few questions because Audrey did say that she wants to answer a lot of questions.
01:21:07.000Comments, not necessarily questions, but there's a debate that's happening in the chat about whether AI needs to be regulated.
01:21:14.000Do you support the regulation of AI and given the growing influence of AI and you even see the Trump administration creating an AI czar, right?
01:21:24.000Having an entire AI department now and focus within the Trump administration to become the world's leader in AI and also cryptocurrency.
01:21:33.000What are your views on On the growing advancements in AI technology and how do you feel about AI regulation?
01:21:44.000Yeah, again, it's just like asking, oh, what do I feel about community moderation?
01:21:52.000If it's in the hands of people and individual communities and families.
01:21:56.000Then it's a good thing because people can steer it however they want.
01:21:59.000If it is just in the hands of one or two persons, then that may not be the best idea because then it ends up being one or two people determining their worldview.
01:22:09.000of the entire society would be aligning the society to the logic, just like in social media algorithms, the logic of the creator of such algorithms instead of aligning this tool to people's uses.
01:22:22.000So as I mentioned, the Roost, the Robust Open Online Safety Tools, is a set of AI models.
01:22:28.000It is basically to safeguard against illegal material and so on.
01:22:32.000But the great thing about open source and free software...
01:22:35.000Is that people can tune it to their community's liking.
01:22:39.000So if your community has different standards for moderation and so on, that AI should be tuned and tamed, domesticated by your community, not by some place that's very far, either in Silicon Valley or somewhere else in Beijing, and you have no control over it.
01:22:56.000So my answer is that AI becomes assistive.
01:23:00.000Augmenting only if we control the tuning of AI and domestication of AI so that it suits our own purposes, not some abstract big techs purposes.
01:23:43.000So in Taiwan, for example, we sent 200,000 SMS text messages from the official number 111 to ask random Taiwanese citizens what to do about the trolls, the defakes, the attack on information integrity online, and people share their ideas.
01:24:02.000And then we basically asked people to volunteer like a jury.
01:24:06.000So 450 people randomly selected, representing statistically Taiwan, came up on these online conversations in rooms of 10 people each.
01:24:17.000And people definitely said, for example, that you should not be able to use money to buy this trollish influence that impersonates celebrities and, you know, get the celebrities to put words in their mouths that they have never said and so on.
01:24:38.000So the people's idea is that if it is, for example, Audrey Tang's advertisement selling you something, Then it needs to secure a digital signature from Audrey Tang saying that I endorse this message.
01:24:52.000So if Facebook, for example, does not secure my signature and somebody gets scammed out of $2 million, then starting this year, Facebook in Taiwan is liable for that $2 million.
01:25:03.000So this fraud, scams, financial damage can be combated in a way that does not have censorship as its side effect.
01:25:12.000But rather it can simply require people who pay the money to digitally sign.
01:25:16.000So that, I think, the Anti-Fraud Act is a very sensible piece of legislation that I hope other jurisdictions would consider.
01:25:24.000But also the idea of coming up with such...
01:25:27.000Pro-freedom, not censorship solutions.
01:25:30.000That is also something that governments around the world can engage people more.
01:25:34.000So as for concrete ways to support this, I think the ideas of a decentralized social media is still pretty new.
01:25:43.000You can find many of those policies, ideas, and thoughts in the Plurality.net book.
01:25:51.000And so the concept then of a digital signature, that would only then apply to advertisements to prevent scams.
01:25:59.000But how would you then go about, I mean, that doesn't necessarily address what some people would call trolls, because a lot of memes could be considered trollish.
01:26:08.000And so how do you go about that without censoring?
01:26:12.000Because some people would say that a meme is a troll, and then some people would say that a troll is a meme.
01:26:19.000Like it's all about your interpretation or I guess like if you're on the receiving end of the meme or you're just an observer because some people would say that actual commentary or satire or real memes, artistic memes, artistic expression could be trolls but then others would see it differently.
01:26:38.000And so to go back to the Romania example that your vice president brought up in Munich, I think what happened there is not a simple meme, but rather some way for one person to control thousands of accounts.
01:26:53.000And as if there's like thousands of different people having different political views and so on, and then just trolling together.
01:27:01.000And so I think the idea here is not to censor.
01:27:09.000So if there's a foreign actor basically pretending to be 5,000 American people.
01:27:16.000That should be detected as soon as possible.
01:27:18.000And you can do it in a way that does not compromise privacy at all.
01:27:23.000In Taiwan, we have this idea of decentralized wallet, and it's an infrastructure that allows people to digitally sign, but without revealing any personal details.
01:27:34.000So I can sign saying that I'm a Taiwanese resident, or even that I'm a resident of Taipei City.
01:27:40.000It's a discussion about the city budget, but it does not reveal my name, where I live, my social security number, or really anything else.
01:27:49.000So this idea of selective disclosure, to let people prove that it is just one person behind it, to make it impossible for a foreign actor to control 5 million accounts, I think that is also the sort of infrastructure that we need to support together.
01:28:05.000So how would, to, I guess if you could provide an answer then to the question that was asked is how would people go about legislating this?
01:28:13.000Because our system here is a bit different and of course you have, you know, Congress and you have lawmakers and they have to draft up a bill and they have to get support and they have to take a vote for this bill on the floor of the House and they get approval in the Senate and then of course the bill goes to the desk of the President.
01:28:28.000So how, given our system here in the United States of America, do you foresee citizens going about getting Something like this legislated?
01:28:38.000Well, first of all, I think if something is shown to be technically possible and even preferred, then people will then put the pressure.
01:28:48.000I think one of the good things that the European Union did is to basically say that you must use the same standard for connectors without saying that which company makes the...
01:29:13.000And so they have this type C idea that we're all benefiting from.
01:29:16.000So we're not, you know, compelled to buy like five sorts of micro USB lining or whatever chargers.
01:29:23.000So imagine the same buffer social media so that instead of meta or X. Basically hoarding all the content.
01:29:32.000If you want to view such content on TrueSocial or on Blue Sky or some other smaller experiences, then you can freely do so.
01:29:41.000They cannot close the firehose, they cannot close the speech from being displayed in smaller communities.
01:29:48.000I think that is also something that interoperability, as we say, is something that's also worth fighting for, because again, it emboldens free speech.
01:29:56.000It makes it much harder for a larger platform to censor stuff.
01:30:00.000So if you're interested in this idea, there's some policy blueprints about that.
01:30:05.000You can find it in Project Liberty, the Project Liberty Institute.
01:30:09.000I also advise I'm a senior fellow there have such policy packages.
01:30:14.000And the hope is that we try it out in the TikTok people's bid if we get the bid from the McCourt O'Leary bid, or we can also try it in smaller places like True Social or Blue Sky.
01:30:26.000And once people see that it's really working well, then it transfers into legislative action.
01:30:33.000And then going along, well, just to kind of like pick your brain, I guess, on as it relates to authoritarianism, aside from the obvious, which is the CCP.
01:30:44.000and we've talked about that extensively here on Loomer Unleashed.
01:30:47.000What do you think right now is the biggest global authoritarian threat, especially as it relates to censorship and technology?
01:30:55.000We've seen the threat of China, and given your position as the cyber ambassador in Taiwan, I'm sure you're constantly worried about the threat of Chinese occupation.
01:31:08.000The threat of the CCP. But aside from the CCP and threats from Xi Jinping, what is the greatest global threat of authoritarianism right now?
01:31:19.000As I mentioned, the authoritarian narrative is not just about censorship.
01:31:24.000It is about pushing the meta-narrative that says freedom only leads to chaos.
01:31:31.000And this is also some, as you said, it's hard to tell a troll from a meme, right?
01:31:37.000So even though it may not be specifically CCP actors saying this, there's also people repeating this meme in freedom-loving countries and basically giving up hope that absolute freedom of speech, of expression, of assembly, and so on can coexist with mutual understanding.
01:32:00.000If we say technology must advance freedom and freedom can lead to shared understanding, then that's a very powerful countermeasure, a counter-narrative to this narrative that says, oh, freedom only leads to infighting.
01:32:19.000Well, thank you so much for coming on my show tonight, and thank you so much for answering so many questions.
01:32:25.000We have a lot more questions, but you'll have to come on again, and hopefully people will read your book, Plurality, the Future of Collaborative Technology and Democracy, and then also your very exciting film, Good Enough Ancestor.
01:32:37.000I believe you said it comes out on March 9th.
01:32:39.000Where are people going to be able to watch that film?
01:33:18.000And thank you so much for speaking out about these issues and the work that you're doing to fight for free speech.
01:33:24.000And breach these subjects about censorship and authoritarianism and collaborative communication for the preservation of democracy on an international stage.
01:33:35.000I find it to be really interesting and of course I've been reading the book and reading your papers and I'm really looking forward to watching your movie when it comes out.
01:34:00.000Yeah, we have a lot of people on Rumble, but then we also have, let's see how many people on X, because I streamed the show on X and Rumble.
01:34:07.000So I don't know how many viewers we have right now on Rumble, but we have 60,000.
01:34:14.000So 60,000 live viewers right now on X. So hopefully everybody watching finds it to be rather informative.
01:34:20.000So be sure that if you're watching right now that you repost the live link on X and Rumble and also be sure that you follow Audrey on X and True Social.
01:34:35.000I hope you guys found that to be interesting.
01:34:38.000I personally find these subjects to be interesting given the fact that You know, I talk a lot about technocracy and the threat of the technocratic monarchy that is being pushed right now by the big tech oligarchs and whether you are a leftist or you're a conservative, I think that it would be completely naive and, I guess, short-sighted.
01:35:01.000To disregard the obvious fact that an oligarchy is taking place in our country.
01:35:07.000And even though I support President Trump and even though I voted for President Trump and even though I am in support of his policies, I do not support giving the wealthiest billionaires in the world access to make policy decisions within the White House.
01:35:30.000When the Democrats were doing this, when they were working hand-in-hand with the tech billionaires, and I think that for the sake of preserving free speech and the sake of having checks and balances and separation of powers and making sure that we can never again have Big tech censorship on the levels that we saw during the 2020 election.
01:35:49.000It's important that we have guardrails.
01:35:51.000So I've said before that we can be grateful for people like Elon Musk and appreciate what he's done in terms of purchasing X and his support of President Trump and his support financially of the conservative movement.
01:36:05.000But I also think that we need to be critical of the amount of influence that some of these big tech social media giants Are having, especially as we see them writing multi-million dollar checks and then getting positions within the White House, right?
01:36:19.000As we've seen with people like David Sachs and others and Mark Zuckerberg and, you know, you look at the individuals who are participating in these AI summits that they're having at the White House.
01:36:30.000I just think that we need to be cautious and we need to Be aware that the pendulum swings.
01:36:38.000And just because things are good right now for conservatives doesn't mean that things are always going to be good.
01:36:43.000I mean, how many of you thought that we were ever going to escape the censorship hell brought upon us by Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg and others when we were witnessing all of the egregious deplatforming and censorship in the aftermath of the stolen election and really just throughout the entire election process?
01:36:59.000Just like people now think that things are 100% certain and we have freedom of speech.
01:37:04.000I mean, there's still issues with censorship in this country.
01:37:06.000It doesn't mean that the pendulum cannot shift again.
01:37:10.000And so it's important that we start talking about developing these technologies and decentralizing our communication platforms and having conversations about how we can update our legislation as it relates to dealing with technology.
01:37:27.000Because technology is now having an ever-present role, not just in our day-to-day lives, but also in the way that we get our information, consume our news, and participate in political processes.
01:37:41.000So I hope that you found this interview to be informative and interesting and that you'll visit the Plurality.net site and also check out Good Enough Ancestor when it comes out.
01:37:56.000In about two weeks, because even though I'm a Trump supporter and things are good right now, I think it's great that President Trump's in control.
01:38:05.000We have control of the House and the Senate.
01:38:07.000Things could always change, and so you never want to get too comfortable.
01:38:11.000You always want to be paying attention to how technology is transforming society, how technology is transforming the world, and the...
01:38:20.000Ways that we can utilize technology to combat real authoritarianism.
01:38:24.000I'm not talking about the authoritarianism that people are accusing President Trump of.
01:38:29.000I'm talking about actual authoritarian movements that could take root in the flip of a dime.
01:38:38.000But if we empower ourselves with technology, we can combat that.
01:38:42.000So I want to thank Audrey for coming on my program tonight.
01:38:46.000Before we continue and we get into all of the dark money funding of these left wing movements and these protests that are popping up all around the country to protest Trump and Musk and Doge and all of these violent protests that we've seen in the last few weeks.
01:39:01.000They call it Dictator's Day in response to President's Day on Monday.
01:39:06.000I want to take a moment to thank the second sponsor of tonight's episode of Loomer Unleashed.
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01:41:11.000Definitely check that interview out because he had a lot of interesting things to say, especially about how, you know, beverages are manufactured and how a lot of beverages and drinks that you think are maybe healthy or healthy for you or that they're low in sugar advertised this way are not actually what they claim to be.
01:42:22.000And so if you're one of these people that packs your children lunches and you pack a Gatorade or you pack a soda or a little juice box, just know that Grossi is a lot healthier than the drinks that you are potentially Packing away in your child's lunchbox when you send them to school or maybe when you homeschool them and you make their own lunches.
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01:43:33.000I'm talking about these protests against Doge, these protests against Musk, these protests against President Trump, in which the Democrats claim to be against the stripping of funding from groups like USAID and the federal funding freezes that are now being attacked in lawsuits by people like Tish James and a consortium of several So
01:44:07.000it's quite ridiculous because these protests are essentially protesting the actions of the federal government to save you money.
01:44:16.000So I don't really understand what these people are protesting because Well, they have proven through these records and the documents that have been released that billions of our dollars, our taxpayer dollars, have been wasted on egregious leftist programs.
01:44:31.000They have gone into paying the salaries of...
01:44:35.000Leftist political operatives to are the executives of these organizations describing themselves as charities, but taking half a million to $1.5, $1.8 million salaries per year, as we exposed last week here on Loomer Unleashed with the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation.
01:44:53.000But that's just one of many organizations that are receiving grants and funding from the federal government.
01:45:00.000And of course, that funding is coming from your taxpayer dollars.
01:45:06.000There are a lot of people in the Democrat Party who are very angry about the defunding of useless organizations that are wasting your money.
01:45:37.000I got in a very viral fight with Elon Musk in which he called me a troll and he censored my account and he demonetized me for over a month.
01:45:45.000Now he's retweeting my content and sharing my content.
01:45:48.000I do not agree with everything that Elon Musk does.
01:45:52.000I do not agree with everything that Elon Musk says.
01:45:54.000But you gotta throw a dog a bone every so often, and you have to call a spade a spade, and you have to also give credit where credit's due.
01:46:02.000And I will say that Elon is doing a good thing in that he is helping save people's money.
01:46:09.000He is exposing the fraud and abuse and a waste of people's taxpayer dollars.
01:46:15.000Are there concerns about some of these staffers at Doge having access to people's personal information?
01:46:21.000Yes, I agree that people should have open transparency.
01:46:26.000Perhaps there should be some kind of a public explanation for every single step that is being taken or every piece of data.
01:46:37.000They're saying that they don't have access to people's information in the sense that they can't go in and make changes to You know, there are bank accounts.
01:46:46.000They can't make changes to their personal information.
01:46:49.000But there needs to be more transparency.
01:46:52.000I agree with the left's claims and their request for more transparency.
01:46:57.000I think that everybody wants to have full transparency.
01:47:00.000But what is wrong about exposing fraud, waste, and abuse?
01:47:05.000What is wrong about exposing political corruption and a misuse of taxpayer dollars?
01:47:11.000I think a lot of these protests are Just kind of full of uneducated individuals.
01:47:18.000They're not really picking and choosing their battles and they certainly are not using effective messaging because, well, if you want to have effective communication about Doge and you want to say something like, you know, maybe staffers shouldn't be going around calling themselves big balls and hairy balls.
01:47:35.000Maybe the staffers should have a little bit more decorum.
01:47:38.000Maybe there should be more professionalism in the way that Doge conducts itself.
01:47:43.000People would listen if you actually had that conversation in a rational manner.
01:47:48.000But once you start advocating for violence or you start waving Hamas flags, it's end of discussion, period.
01:47:56.000And so we've seen over the last few weeks that a lot of these protests have also been sharing space with the Palestinian protesters who are waving Hamas flags and calling for an intifada and calling for an end to Donald Trump and Netanyahu.
01:48:13.000Captured footage of Luigi Mangione simps.
01:48:18.000I wish I was making this up, but there is a full-blown movement, apparently, that we discovered of Luigi Mangione supporters who are going to these anti-Donald Trump and anti-Elon Musk protests to protest Doge, protest Musk, protest Trump while...
01:48:38.000Advocating for actions to be taken against them, like Luigi Mangione allegedly took against UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.
01:48:48.000If you're not familiar with who Luigi Mangione is, well, you know, he is the sensational Ivy League student who shot and killed, allegedly, they say.
01:49:02.000At point blank from behind the UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson a couple months ago in New York City as he was leaving his hotel room to speak at a healthcare conference in New York City.
01:49:13.000And it was a very theatrical murder that took place because you had like a, he got away.
01:49:49.000You know, this guy, Luigi Mangione, happens to be relatively good-looking, and so you had people online that immediately created social media accounts supporting this individual and fanboying over him because he has a six-pack, and, you know, he's not my type.
01:50:06.000I wouldn't say that I find him to be, like, jaw-dropping sexy, but he certainly does have some physical attributes that are...
01:50:39.000It became the subject of a White House press briefing this last week because Caitlin Collins, who of course is the White House correspondent for CNN and also has her own show on CNN, found herself in a lot of heat.
01:50:52.000We can actually get this article pulled up before we show the video because I want to...
01:50:56.000Explain it all to you and kind of set the storyline for you so you can understand just how deranged this is.
01:51:01.000But not just how deranged it is, but also the type of mainstream media attention and support that this movement, even though it's insanely violent, is receiving.
01:51:15.000Caitlin Collins fires back after conservatives criticized her ex-post on Luigi Mangione.
01:51:21.000So about a day or so before this protest was captured on video by Lumer Unleashed in Washington, D.C., Luigi Mangione, who of course is the alleged murderer of Brian Thompson, the UnitedHealthcare CEO, his legal defense team, and he comes from a very wealthy family.
01:51:39.000His family's very rich, and he has an all-star legal defense team.
01:51:43.000I believe the woman who is his defense lawyer, from my understanding, Is married to P. Diddy's lawyer, if I'm not mistaken.
01:51:53.000And so she's a she's a very high profile, high powered, expensive criminal defense attorney.
01:52:01.000And of course, you know, that has already generated its own media attention, given the fact that the P. Diddy case is as viral as it is and as controversial as it is.
01:52:14.000Because his defense team actually launched a Luigi Mangione defense website where his supporters and his fans, yes, and I mean his supporters and his fans.
01:52:30.000Because it's quite unbelievable that a guy who allegedly, and I say allegedly because everybody is presumed innocent until they're found guilty in the court of law in A jury of their peers.
01:52:44.000So they believe that he is the guy who shot and killed Brian Thompson.
01:52:49.000But because there was so much outrage and there was, sadly, I guess this kind of the sense of resentment that so many people in our society feel because they feel as though our health care industry is broken, which it is, right?
01:53:06.000But that's not a reason to go murder somebody.
01:53:09.000He found a lot of sympathizers to his cause and people saying, wow, finally somebody shot and killed these healthcare executives.
01:53:34.000A need for increased security from a lot of these healthcare executives and just executives in any industry really around the country because people were talking about how it was open season for executives or people who are making enormous amounts of money in industries where people often feel jilted or they feel afflicted.
01:53:56.000Luigi Mangione had all these people trying to send him commissary money, sending him money, asking if they could donate.
01:54:04.000You had all these rich women that found him to be sexy and attractive contacting his legal team, asking if they could pay for his legal fees.
01:54:13.000And so they have a public fund where people could actually send him fan mail, send him money, and fund his public defense.
01:54:21.000And now you have people who are actually dressing up in Luigi costumes across the country.
01:55:09.000And people were accusing Caitlin Collins of promoting his fund because she has over a million followers on social media.
01:55:16.000They were like, oh, wow, does Caitlin Collins support this?
01:55:19.000Does she support, you know, the assassination of executives?
01:55:22.000Because, well, everybody knows that Caitlin Collins, who used to, ironically, be a conservative, now is a rabid leftist and a rabid Trump hater.
01:55:31.000So it says, Luigi Mangione legal defense information due to the extraordinary volume of inquiries and outpouring of support.
01:55:40.000Outpouring of support for a guy who allegedly shot and killed a healthcare executive at point blank.
01:55:46.000Okay, so this is the kind of like twisted world we're living in now.
01:55:52.000This site was created and is maintained by Luigi Mangione's New York legal defense team to provide answers to frequently asked questions, accurate information about his cases, and to dispel misinformation.
01:56:05.000The intent is to share factual information regarding the unprecedented multiple prosecutions against him, and he has been charged with terroristic actions.
01:56:17.000I know that, you know, he had this very...
01:56:20.000A dramatic perp walk by Eric Adams, the mayor of New York City.
01:56:25.000And, you know, it almost looked like...
01:56:29.000If you type in Luigi Mangione perp walk, I mean, it almost looked like it was out of a movie scene in the way that they were trying to sensationalize this guy.
01:56:39.000And, of course, here we go to the photo.
01:56:40.000Let's go to the photo and you can see it.
01:56:42.000See, they have, like, all these people around them.
01:56:45.000You have Eric Adams in the background, SWAT officers.
01:57:00.000Because there's a reason I'm showing you this.
01:57:04.000They actually posted a message from him.
01:57:06.000It said, I'm overwhelmed by and grateful for everybody who has written me to share their stories and express their support.
01:57:13.000Powerfully, this support has transcended political, racial, and even class divisions as mail has flooded MDC, I guess his prison facility, from across the country and around the globe.
01:57:26.000While it is impossible for me to reply to most letters, please know that I read every one that I received.
01:57:32.000Thank you again to everyone who took the time to write.
01:57:34.000I look forward to hearing more in the future.
01:57:38.000He's literally getting fan mail and people are, you know, sending him.
01:57:42.000Fan mail, because they are idolizing this guy who allegedly murdered the UnitedHealthcare CEO. Scroll down.
01:57:59.000So that's a powerhouse husband-wife team.
01:58:03.000And again, as I said before, they received a lot of attention because they have high-profile clientele, including P. Diddy, from my understanding.
01:58:13.000Luigi is represented by Thomas Dickey of Tom Dickey Law Offices in Pennsylvania.
01:58:18.000So he has the money to have a high-powered defense team.
01:58:22.000His family has enormous wealth, and it's my understanding that Luigi Mangione himself was the heir to an enormous fortune.
01:58:32.000When this happened, when Luigi Mangione was accused of and arrested and charged with What they say is the murder of Brian Thompson.
01:58:43.000There was this push for class consciousness and there was this push for class divisions and a glorification of...
01:58:52.000Of people going out and murdering the rich, right?
01:58:55.000This whole eat the rich mentality or eat the rich, kill the rich mentality that we often see is promoted by Marxists.
01:59:15.000They were actually present at the anti-Trump and anti-Musk protests against Doge.
01:59:20.000And they were advocating for the murder of Elon Musk and the murder of Donald Trump and Doge officials.
01:59:28.000And so we're going to play this video for you.
01:59:30.000And we have several videos actually back-to-back.
01:59:33.000This first one is our interaction with the guy that's holding up a sign advocating for the assassination of...
01:59:40.000Elon Musk and Donald Trump because these are the words on the sign that were on the bullet casings found next to Brian Thompson's body.
01:59:48.000And they also put the Super Mario bullet on the sign.
01:59:52.000So we're going to play these two videos back to back for you.
01:59:58.000Clearly, there's an effort to not just go out and kill healthcare executives and to celebrate and glorify people who murder healthcare executives because people feel like they're getting ripped off by healthcare companies.
02:00:09.000But now this has also transcended to a movement where people feel emboldened enough.
02:00:16.000Because of the glorification of these defense funds with high-profile attorneys and the way that the media is sensationalizing this and Caitlin Collins of CNN sharing the defense fund to actually go out on Capitol Hill in front of media without wearing a mask and advocate for the cold-blood murder of Trump administration officials.
02:00:36.000Let's go ahead and play these clips I'm trying to figure out the meaning of this sign Okay, thank you very much.
02:04:08.000You know, he's calling attention to things that we need to be paying more attention to, which is the fact that people are dying because of a lack of health insurance.
02:04:55.000She's asked point blank by Charles Downs, who of course is our Loomer Unleashed DC correspondent, whether or not Luigi Mangione is inspiring to her and whether or not he's a hero.
02:05:08.000And she says that, well, you know, he's bringing awareness to issues that really matter and he's bringing awareness to things that are really important.
02:05:23.000Because you don't agree with them and you don't agree with their policies or you don't like the fact that they're CEO of a company or multiple companies like Elon Musk is.
02:05:38.000Like, we've seen stories before of women who get crushes on serial killers and they've done documentaries on this or there's...
02:05:47.000True crime stories about this where you have these women who become fascinated with serial killers and they fall in love with them and they write love letters to them and they communicate with serial killers.
02:05:58.000And serial killers, even though some of them are in prison for the rest of their life, have these romances with these weird women who fall in love with them.
02:06:07.000You have these women who are now falling in love with Luigi Mangione, and they're idolizing him, and they're trying to satisfy him and please him and be like him.
02:07:07.000So that's Elon Musk replying to the video that we posted.
02:07:11.000You can scroll up and you can see the original video.
02:07:14.000We said the protest is happening right outside the U.S. Capitol.
02:07:18.000The Women's March posted in solidarity of it.
02:07:20.000As you can see, attendees include members of the Free Palestine Movement and radical leftists who are calling for someone to murder, aka Luigi Mangione, Donald Trump, and Elon Musk.
02:07:31.000And then we have another tweet from Elon Musk in response to the video where he said, advocating for the murder of the president is a serious crime and they have the gall to do so on President's Day.
02:07:42.000Letting Eagle Martin, Ed, know about this.
02:07:44.000And you can click on Ed Martin's handle.
02:07:47.000Ed Martin, U.S. Attorney, District of Columbia.
02:07:50.000So it's been, I guess you could say, moved up the totem pole of Elon Musk, who is now officially tech support for the White House and has the president's ear and has the ear of all these Trump administration officials.
02:08:04.000I'm sure that it's also been sent to Secret Service.
02:08:07.000We actually got a photo of the guy's face.
02:08:10.000Let's see if we can get that tweet pulled up, too.
02:08:18.000But we have the guy's face zoomed in so you can actually see firsthand what he looks like because Elon Musk had said he wanted to report him.
02:09:28.000So, as I said before, the words on the ammunition in the CEO's shooting echo common phrase on insurer tactics, delay, deny, defend.
02:09:37.000So, this is how they kind of like piece together the fact that the guy who murdered Brian Thompson, the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, had something against the healthcare executive or was doing this in a vindictive, kind of vigilante manner because there was a book or there was a publication that had this phrase in there, delay, deny, defend.
02:10:01.000So you scroll down so that people can...
02:10:05.000So, a message left at the scene of a health insurance executive's fatal shooting, deny, defend, and depose, echoes a phrase commonly used to describe insurer tactics to avoid paying claims.
02:10:16.000The three words, deny, defend, depose, were written on the ammunition a mass gunman used to kill UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, according to two law enforcement officials who spoke with the Associated Press on the condition of anonymity.
02:10:35.000They're similar to the phrase delay, deny, defend the way some attorneys describe how insurers deny services and payment and the title of a 2010 book that was highly critical of the healthcare industry.
02:10:50.000Well, then, of course, Luigi Mangione was arrested and he was charged and now he's awaiting his trial.
02:10:56.000So go back to the photo and you can see firsthand what does that sign say?
02:11:02.000Elon Don, Luigi says, deny, defend, oppose, and it has the bullet.
02:11:06.000You see the little Super Mario bullet.
02:11:08.000That's clearly an incitement of violence.
02:11:11.000I mean, they said that this guy, Luigi Mangione, allegedly shot and killed Brian Thompson, and the bullet casings had the words, deny, defend, oppose.
02:11:20.000So, if you see a sign with a bullet, with a guy that looks like Luigi, and they're dressed like Luigi, too, because that's the jacket.
02:11:27.000if you recall what Luigi Mangione was wearing.
02:11:30.000Let's go to the photo of Luigi Mangione or Luigi, just maybe type in like Luigi Mangione green jacket.
02:11:38.000You can see here when they release these images, click on the New York Post right there.
02:11:52.000Jacket, click on that whole thing, yeah.
02:12:09.000A green trucker jacket similar to that of alleged UnitedHealthcare CEO killer Luigi Mangione has reportedly surged in sales as the internet frenzy over his looks continues.
02:12:20.000According to Complex, the Sherpa-lined hooded jacket from Levi's, which rings in at $225, is flying off the shelves after a Reddit user speculated that it was the same coat worn by the accused killer.
02:12:33.000CCTV footage from the day of CEO Brian Thompson's murder in Midtown shows the shooter wearing a green hooded jacket, not unlike the viral Levi's coat.
02:12:59.000And we're only saying this because even though people really believe that Luigi Mangione murdered Brian Thompson, everybody is entitled to their trial and a jury of their peers.
02:14:09.000Threatening the president of the United States is a Class D felony under United States Code Title 18, Section 871.
02:14:21.000It is punishable by up to five years in prison with a maximum fine of $250,000, a $100 special assessment, and up to three years of supervised release.
02:14:33.000You know, it's crazy that nothing is being done about this.
02:14:37.000I mean, we have President Trump in the White House now, so it's fine.
02:14:42.000So we have the penalties here for threatening the President of the United States, and it's a Class D felony under United States Code Title 18, Section 871. Why are these people not going to prison?
02:14:56.000Why is the Secret Service not arresting these people?
02:15:01.000You can, if you want to pull it up, Cannon, just type in, if you want to pull it up on the big screen for people to see, just type in punishment for threatening to kill the President of the United States so that people can actually see this firsthand.
02:15:15.000You can just type it in on Google if you want.
02:15:43.000It is punishable up to five years in prison, a maximum fine of $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release.
02:15:53.000So if you can go to jail for five years for threatening to assassinate the president, why do people feel so emboldened under the current Trump administration to dress up like Luigi Mangione and walk around with signs advocating for the assassination of President Trump?
02:16:18.000I want to see what you all have to say about this and whether you think that, why you think, I guess, why you think that these people have not been arrested.
02:16:28.000Obviously, they can't hear you, but I want to know what everybody thinks because it's insane to me that people are walking around dressed up like Luigi, saying that he inspires them.
02:16:39.000You saw that one girl dress up in a Luigi costume and you see this guy dressed up in the jacket.
02:16:45.000How are these people not on FBI watch lists?
02:16:47.000How are these people not being arrested or fined or jailed for attempting to assassinate the President of the United States?
02:16:54.000And why are people just allowing this behavior to happen after two thwarted assassination attempts on President Trump's life?
02:18:08.000Well, along with these leftist protesters, these Marxists who were, you know, advocating for the assassination of Trump and Elon and supporting Luigi Mangione and supporting his message and basically cosplaying an alleged assassin.
02:18:30.000Dick Durbin's daughter, by the name of Jen Durbin, who we've spoken about on the show before, because as As you know, if you are a viewer of the show, Jen Durbin put out scripts that her father gave her, and the scripts had instructions for how people should call and complain against President Trump's nominees.
02:19:44.000Jen Durbin, the daughter of ranking Senate Judiciary Democrat Senator Durbin, attended the Democrat-led protests yesterday against the confirmation of Kash Patel, where attendees were advocating for violence against Doge, Elon Musk, and Donald Trump.
02:19:58.000Her father, Dick Durbin, is on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
02:20:01.000You can scroll down a little bit, please.
02:20:04.000His face is their ex-profile picture, as Cannon just showed you, which is the committee that is supposed to hold a vote tomorrow to move Kash Patel's nomination to the Senate floor for a final vote.
02:20:15.000In the pics below that I obtained from Jen's Instagram account, you can see that she posted pictures of violent signs that advocated for Doge to be wood-chipped.
02:20:23.000As well as signs attacking Trump's nominees, Kennedy, Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard, and Kash Patel.
02:22:57.000There are probably photos or examples of things like this or, you know, the aftermath.
02:23:01.000We're not going to show the photos here, but I'm sure that if you really wanted to see what the aftermath of going through a wood chipper looked like, you could probably find that online if you did enough research.
02:23:11.000But essentially it's very, very gruesome.
02:23:15.000Imagine a human being being put in a meat grinder.
02:23:18.000That's basically, What it would be like to woodchip something.
02:23:23.000So it is an incitement of violence, and Senator Dick Durbin, who is on the Senate Judiciary Committee, who is going to be participating in this vote tomorrow, his daughter is out there posting this on her social media.
02:23:35.000So let's go back to the photos so that people can see.
02:24:24.000Should the children of U.S. senators who are on these committees overseeing this process be allowed to post incitement of violence against President Trump's nominees?
02:24:36.000And why are we not seeing condemnation from Senator Dick Durbin of these actions?
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02:26:40.000Let's go to the chat before we start exploring the funding sources for the groups that are behind these protests, these protests that we're now seeing, these violent protests all across the country, because some people are wondering.
02:26:54.000The Democrats sometimes deny that they're affiliated with or associated with these protests that are inciting violence, where people who are fanboys and fangirls of Luigi Mangione are showing up, calling for the assassination of President Trump and Elon.
02:27:10.000We're going to prove to you that they are tied to the Democrats tonight.
02:27:14.000Any comments, any questions before we move on to these funding sources?
02:27:18.000We're going to expose this tonight live on Loomer Unleashed.
02:28:07.000Somebody said the movie Fargo has a scene for the wood chipper.
02:28:13.000Kimmy B said, Trump will make sure cash is confirmed no matter what the rhinos are trying to do, and believe me, it is the rhinos causing the delays.
02:28:22.000Well, the Democrats are also causing the delays.
02:28:25.000All of them are really causing the delays.
02:28:26.000I mean, look, John Thune said that they weren't going to allow for anybody to have a vacation or anybody to have a weekend until all of President Trump's nominees were confirmed.
02:28:36.000But they all just went to Germany, right?
02:28:38.000We all just saw them go to Germany for the security conference, and then they came back today.
02:28:45.000Congress is out for the rest of the week, the House is at least, and so the Senate's meeting tomorrow.
02:28:52.000And I guess we're going to see if they're going to continue obstructing.
02:28:58.000Who's funding these protests, though, right?
02:29:03.000Who is behind this protest where people were dressed up like Luigi Mangione calling for the assassination of Elon Musk and President Trump?
02:29:12.000Well, let's go back to the screenshot of that Women's March Facebook post or that Instagram post that they made.
02:29:19.000Because it has some interesting information on there.
02:29:22.000And then you can see how we figured this out.
02:29:27.000So the day of the protest, which is President's Day yesterday, the Women's March posted this on their official Instagram account.
02:29:35.000It said, Not my president, no kings in America national actions on February 17th.
02:29:40.000The Women's March is in solidarity with local feminist leaders and everyday people taking action on Monday, February 17th.
02:29:47.000As part of the Not My President, No Kings in America national actions.
02:29:51.000While our country faces an administrative coup led by Trump and his billionaire allies, this fight for our democracy calls for all of us to do everything that we can to protect our freedoms.
02:30:02.000Across the country, people are rising up in decentralized actions to make their opposition heard.
02:30:07.000We encourage everyone to find or organize an action in their community and add their voice to this fight.
02:30:25.000We started looking and of course there were several news articles because There were a lot of these protests that really popped up all across the country.
02:30:33.000It wasn't just in New York where Jen Durbin attended.
02:30:36.000No, it was also Washington, D.C., but also other cities across the country.
02:30:40.000If you want to canon, please get those articles pulled up so that people can see what we're talking about as it relates to these different articles that attribute these protests to this movement called 50-51.
02:30:55.000And no, I'm not talking about like 50 and then 51. 5-0-5-0-1.
02:31:54.000Some online movement where it's a bunch of people posting on a Reddit thread.
02:31:59.000No, it actually has, from our research here at Loomer Unleash and what we found, ties to Democrat organizations, ties to political PACs, ties to the Democrat Party, believe it or not.
02:32:15.000In late January 2025, social media users on multiple platforms began calling for people to join nationwide protests against U.S. President Donald Trump's administration.
02:32:26.000The Post claimed that the demonstrations were set to be held in all 50 states on February 5th, 2025. Well, obviously, President's Day was yesterday.
02:32:34.000For example, one user shared an image that read, 50 protests, 50 states, one day.
02:32:43.000It also included the date and listed the location as your state's capital.
02:32:48.000You can see here it has Black Lives Matter imagery because this movement is also tied to the Black Lives Matter movement.
02:32:58.000Another user called for people to join 50 peaceful protests in 50 oppressed states for one day at your state capitol.
02:33:05.000A sentence at the bottom of the post said that the protests were taking place Due to quote, Trump being in the White House illegally according to Section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution.
02:33:16.000Now, of course, we're familiar with Section 3. Of the 14th Amendment because it became the basis for which secretaries of state in multiple states filed lawsuits to try to kick Trump off the ballot during the election, citing this what they called a Civil War Clause to accuse him of inciting an insurrection.
02:33:38.000This clause, right, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is often called the Civil War Clause or the Insurrection Clause.
02:33:47.000Critics of Trump argued that because he had incited an insurrection, which he did not at the United States Capitol, he was unqualified or rather disqualified from holding office if he engaged in an insurrection or rebellion against the Constitution.
02:34:03.000Well, clearly, you know, the American people found this to be bullshit because, well, Donald Trump won the election in a resounding mandate.
02:34:13.000But of course, this so-called insurrection is a reference to the January 6th protests.
02:34:18.000So what happens when you pull up 50-51?
02:34:24.000We're going to do this in real time so that you can see how these investigations are done.
02:34:27.000So if you're interested in trying to identify the funding sources or if you're watching this and you are interested in doing investigative reporting yourself, we're going to show you in real time how you do this so that you can also start tracking the people who are behind these violent protests.
02:37:21.000So not as many as their other platforms, but still, it's getting there.
02:37:25.000Four hours ago, since today is a day of rest for organizers and those who marched, I want to remind everyone that self-care is an act of revolution.
02:39:03.00050-51 protests were a decentralized rapid response to the anti-democratic and illegal actions of the Trump administration and its plutocratic allies.
02:39:11.000The idea 50 protests in 50 states on day one was born on the subreddit thread and spread rapidly on social media.
02:39:19.000In just days, grassroots organizers without any budget, centralized structure, or official backing pulled off over 80 peaceful protests in 50 states.
02:39:29.000Yeah, that's a lie too because they say that they don't have a budget and they say that they don't have any official backing.
02:40:02.000Well, political revolution is a progressive hack.
02:40:06.000Political revolution advances politics in America through progressive grassroots activism.
02:40:11.000Our political action committee, if they have no funding, why are they partnered with a funding source?
02:40:15.000A political action committee is a vehicle for funding.
02:40:18.000Our political action committee is dedicated to electing progressive candidates and also supporting issues focused On efforts to transform our government so it represents all of our citizens, not just the wealthy few.
02:40:33.000How do you donate to the Political Revolution PAC, you may ask?
02:41:39.000They're actually using the Democrat Party platform through ActBlue to push for revolution.
02:41:45.000So, again, these people want to accuse us of being insurrectionists.
02:41:48.000They say that Donald Trump is an insurrectionist.
02:41:50.000They are actually citing Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, the insurrection clause, as the justification for their movement while advocating for their own insurrection.
02:42:05.000That's four lies detected because clearly they don't give a shit.
02:42:09.000They don't give a shit about insurrection.
02:42:11.000They don't give a shit about Section 3 of the 14th Amendment because, well, they're calling for their own insurrection here of the United States Constitution.
02:42:19.000Our expenses are mostly software and communications costs, currently under $200 per month.
02:42:44.000Go to ActBlue.com just so people can see.
02:42:47.000I mean, I know a lot of you are intelligent watching this and you understand this, but for people who may be like, you know, just tuning in, you don't know.
02:42:57.000Powering Democrat candidates and progressive causes across the country.
02:43:04.000Let's look at what they say about them on their Wikipedia page.
02:43:08.000They love to say the Democrats aren't supporting these violent protests.
02:43:12.000The Democrats aren't the ones behind people showing up in Luigi Mangione costumes calling for the assassination of Elon Musk and Donald Trump.
02:43:20.000Yes, they are actually, and they are funding it through their official fundraising.
02:43:27.000ActBlue is an American Democrat Party political action committee and a fundraising platform founded in 2004. It is a major part of the Democrat Party's fundraising infrastructure.
02:43:46.000It's focused on raising small-dollar donors, And as of June 2024, has helped raise $13.7 billion for Democrat candidates and causes since it was established.
02:43:57.000So clearly this organization put on this protest.
02:44:03.000They partnered with Political Revolution, the PAC, which is accepting contributions, through ActBlue.
02:44:11.000So in other words, the Democrat Party's fundraising platform is helping finance Violent political protests where they are calling for the officials of Doge, which includes President Trump, Elon Musk, and Elon's minions, to be woodchipped.
02:44:31.000And they are also calling for the assassination of Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
02:44:40.000By advocating for them to be Luigi Mangione, which is another way, another euphemism of saying you want somebody to be assassinated.
02:44:48.000I already explained to you how this is not a reach and what the meaning of that sign, deny, defend, oppose means.
02:44:56.000It is an open call for an assassination at point blank of a CEO. Let's go back.
02:45:07.000Political revolution, as we went through, is a group of volunteers that grew out of the Bernie Sanders campaign.
02:45:13.000So we now have a direct point of contact to an elected official, a Democrat senator who has been involved in the confirmation hearings for President Trump's nominees.
02:45:27.000You clearly see that it says on their website, political revolution is a group of volunteers that grew out of the Bernie Sanders campaign.
02:45:36.000We are an organization focused on digital campaigning and connecting progressives across the nation.
02:45:43.000Our goal is to support progressive candidates and ballot initiatives on a state-by-state basis and to amplify the message of other like-minded organizations and campaigns.
02:46:23.000They are receiving funding through a radical, progressive, pro-Marxist revolutionary PAC. And the organizers of this PAC... Grew out of the Bernie Sanders campaign.
02:47:07.000We engage the community around those candidates and issues and raise awareness for voters across the nation with a targeted social media platform and messaging and by working with other activist groups.
02:47:18.000Alrighty, who is behind the political revolution pack?
02:48:06.000Obviously, the Women's March got exposed for being a bunch of Jew-haters who were tied to Louis Farrakhan and Muslim Brotherhood offshoots, right?
02:48:14.000That's why they're like, oh, the Women's March is in solidarity with 5051, even though I'm sure that a lot of the participants at 5051 are Women's March organizers.
02:48:24.000Like, I guarantee you that if we were to lift the hood, we would find that out.
02:48:32.000The screenshot here says that they're ready to hold the line, and the press contact is listed as Sarah P., whose email address is publicly listed on the website as press at 5050.1.
02:48:46.000And then another woman whose name is listed there is Glow S., Glow S., press at paul-rev.com.
02:49:07.000President's Day, Not My President's Day, No Kings in America press release, February 16th, the day before President's Day, by GLOW. You see how it says GLOW? GLOW at the top.
02:49:31.000So why are they trying to hide their names?
02:49:34.000well maybe they don't want you guys to know their real identities right it's too bad because we have them So who is Glow S? You know, it's like very cryptic.
02:50:36.000But when you type in Gloria Ann Sahay from this FEC record and you type it into Google, the first thing that pops up is a LinkedIn page for a woman by the name of Gloria Ann Sahay who happens to live in Colorado and she works at A company called Trimble Inc.
02:51:05.000Let's scroll down so we can show you her LinkedIn page and you can see how we figured out who Glow is.
02:51:16.000We have a screen recording because we're not logged in on my computer here in my studio into the personal LinkedIn account because obviously, you know, that would reveal personal information and we have accounts that we use for research.
02:51:29.000We did a screen recording that we could show you without logging into our own personal account.
02:51:33.000That way you can't see who else we're investigating because that's proprietary information.
02:52:57.000Bernie Sanders 2016. So from October 2015 to the end of 2016, she was a volunteer on Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign.
02:53:08.000And they clearly said that this organization was founded by Political Revolution as a group of volunteers that grew out of the Bernie Sanders campaign.
02:54:57.000If you don't have funding, why is there a paper trail through the FEC record and your own staff members who are putting out your press releases?
02:55:05.000Again, let's go back to show people that Glow's name is on the official press here, the press form.
02:55:10.000How are you a grassroots movement without a budget when I literally just showed you that Glow is using like an abbreviation of her real name, Laurieann Sahay.
02:55:26.000So that she can hide the fact that they're lying to you and telling you that these people do not get funding when her name is on the FEC record for the partner organization, Political Revolution, which is getting donations from ActBlue.
02:57:23.000They're saying that they're not getting funding.
02:57:24.000They're funded by the Democrat Party, and they are directly affiliated by organizers for Bernie Sanders' campaigns, which is why Bernie Sanders has been showing up.
02:57:35.000Here's another photo of Glorian that we found.
02:57:39.000Glorian Sahay on LinkedIn, her Pride, Pride Month, hashtag non-binary, hashtag hetero-representing, hashtag Sunday Funday.
02:57:59.000The same woman that went by GLOW. The same photo over here that says Glorian Shehey.
02:58:04.000So in case there was any doubt that they're lying about not having a budget.
02:58:09.000Oh, we're just a bunch of broke activists.
02:58:12.000You know, we're just paying for all this social media and digital marketing and, you know, we're getting press hits and we have signs and we have all these press releases going out.
02:58:23.000But don't worry, we're not receiving any money from anybody.
02:58:59.000A Florida-based 501c4 nonprofit formerly known as Women's Voices of Southwest Florida.
02:59:06.000Dedicated to defending reproductive freedoms and human rights and empowering our communities through education, outreach, and direct action.
02:59:14.000We have a unified message in response to harmful policy that threatens the well-beings of Florida.
02:59:27.000Sarah Parker, whose name is the name of the team.
02:59:35.000Sarah Parker, whose name is the Is on the press contact.
02:59:36.000You can see they're not using their real names because they don't want you to find out their funding sources and the fact that they are tied to well-funded, well-organized movements and organizations.
03:01:40.000And you guys, we are live right now, so please be sure that you share all of this research with everybody else.
03:01:45.000Click on the live link and just reshare it if you're watching live right now on Loomer Unleashed or on the X account.
03:01:52.000You can repost the live link because we're exposing these people in real time because these are the people who are behind all these protests right now across the country.
03:02:00.000I think that people have a right to know.
03:02:02.000They have a right to see all the crazies behind these movements.
03:02:06.000Okay, so Sarah P., we showed you her name is on the press release for 5051. We just showed you that Sarah is the executive director of the Florida Voices Group.
03:03:17.000Let's take a screenshot of this live so that when they try to delete this or they try to say that they don't have ties to the Democrat Party, we can put these receipts back in their face.
03:03:28.000Sarah Parker, elected to a four-year term as a state committee woman in December 2024. Let's look at Sarah's bio.
03:03:37.000Sarah Parker is a passionate advocate for reproductive freedom and social justice in Florida, serving as the executive director and president of Voices for Florida.
03:03:48.000She co-founded the organization in 2021 to oppose a proposed six-week abortion ban in Manatee County.
03:03:56.000You can thank Ron DeSantis for that genius idea that was even opposed by President Trump.
03:04:03.000Leading a successful fight alongside other activists, Voices of Florida, under her leadership, champions reproductive healthcare, equality, and human rights driven by Black and queer individuals.
03:04:15.000Parker, a proud black mother and longtime Sarasota resident, has been involved in grassroots activism since the Occupy movement.
03:04:22.000She co-founded Occupy Florida, later known as Occupy Tally, in response to Florida's 2023 abortion ban.
03:04:29.000As part of the Floridians Protecting Freedom Coalition, she played a key role in the successful Yes on 4 campaign, ensuring that Floridians...
03:05:06.000So again, this partner with this organization whose name is fully being hidden From the public, because they're shortening their names and they're not using their real last names on the organization of these protests, is a Democrat Party official in the state of Florida, in Sarasota.
03:05:26.000She is tied to Act Blue because the Democrat Party group that she's affiliated with in Sarasota, the official Sarasota County Democrat Party, where she's a state committee woman and has been since...
03:05:41.000She was elected to a four-year term in December of 2024. They're accepting donations on ActBlue.
03:05:50.000So again, how are these people not funded?
03:05:53.000If you go back to the 5051 website, they say that they're not funded.
03:06:02.000In just days, grassroots organizers, without any budget, centralized structure, or official backing, they have official backing through several progressive organizations, through the Bernie Sanders campaign, and through ActBlue, the official Democrat Party fundraising platform.
03:06:18.000So, I don't see how people can say, oh, we have no idea who's propping up these protests that are protesting the defunding of USAID. We know who's doing it.
03:06:33.000I just showed you it's the Democrat Party.
03:06:34.000It's the Democrat Party through their proxy, Sarah Parker, and also through their proxy, what's her face?
03:06:42.000Glorian Sahay, who goes by GLOW. These are Bernie Sanders operatives, and these are individuals who are on FEC reports for political revolution and are accepting funds through ActBlue, the Democrat Party's official fundraising platform site.
03:07:03.000Let's see, there's about 59,000 members who, well, they say they have the Reddit page.
03:07:35.000So this is one of the Reddit subusers.
03:07:48.000You slash Honeydew Lemon said via an email that the original idea came from another moderator, the Reddit user you slash evolved underscore fungi.
03:08:00.000Evolved Fungi's original post was deleted, but screenshots below provided by Honeydew Lemon show Evolved Fungi discussing the idea of 50 protests across 50 states.
03:08:10.000The deleted post states that the goal was to give people a simple instruction set to increase participation exponentially.
03:08:17.000And they're definitely being astroturfed.
03:08:28.000Like, they say that they're an organic movement, but they're definitely being funded, and they're definitely being propped up by ActBlue and Bernie Sanders, and they're being propped up by all of these progressive groups that I just showed you.
03:10:24.000We've heard your concerns about the legitimacy of the 50-51 movement.
03:10:29.000Up to this point, we've been entirely grassroots organized, and we've done the best we can to provide some structure and address concerns.
03:10:36.000We've partnered with Political Revolutions.
03:10:38.000We've been speaking with their lead organizers, and they've graciously offered us their support and access to their event organization.
03:10:45.000Well, obviously, like, this is not organic.
03:10:47.000This is the reason why the women who are putting out the press releases on the press releases for 5051 are using abbreviated versions of their name.
03:11:02.000Because if you did, if they had their real names on there, then you would clearly be able to see that they have had longstanding donations and financial ties to political revolution, the PAC that date back to last year, according to these FEC records we pulled.
03:11:16.000And they're tied to the Bernie Sanders campaign, which shows that they have structure.
03:12:14.000Wanted to have a very violent, radical movement that they could say was not affiliated with the Democrat Party so that they could have psychos out there advocating for Luigi Mangione fanboys to assassinate Elon Musk and President Trump.
03:13:58.000Tell them it's your idea and it's spreading nationally.
03:14:00.000Well, it's not their idea and it's not organic because I just showed you how it has structure behind it.
03:14:12.000This idea has potential to bring thousands of people together for a common cause.
03:14:16.000I mean, it's just kind of like really interesting when you see these receipts and it just makes you wonder, like, where's the mainstream media on this?
03:14:28.000And how come the GOP isn't calling this out?
03:14:31.000You have videos that clearly got the attention of Elon Musk.
03:14:34.000I mean, we can pull up those tweets again.
03:14:38.000He said that it's gone too far and that he was going to report these threats of violence to Ed Martin and that these were threats of assassination against President Trump.
03:14:56.000Their names are Sarah Parker and Gloriana Sahay.
03:14:59.000Why is there not mainstream media coverage of this and the fact that People who glorify and support Luigi Mangione are showing up to these protests that are lying and pretending that they're organic when they are literally being financially propped up by ActBlue.
03:15:18.000Very, very disturbing, especially when you know that President Trump has faced multiple assassination threats by Democrats.
03:15:29.000We know that Ryan Routh, who was the second attempted assassin who tried to kill Trump at his golf club, was a Ukraine supporter and he had a Biden Harris bumper sticker on his car.
03:15:41.000Advocating murder of a president is a serious crime and they have the gall to do so on President's Day.
03:15:52.000you Letting Eagle Ed Martin know about this.
03:15:56.000So some pretty shocking information here.
03:15:59.000But again, let's take a couple more questions.
03:16:04.000If you have any comments, we'll take two or three questions, comments, and then we'll wrap up.
03:16:11.000There's not going to be a live show on Thursday, there is going to be a live stream, but it's not going to be a regular show because I'm waking up bright and early and I'm going to CPAC. So I will be at CPAC all week.
03:16:24.000So if you're going to be there, I'll probably see you around.
03:16:27.000I have some meetings I have to attend.
03:16:29.000And of course, President Trump is expected to be speaking at CPAC. So I'll be there reporting live.
03:16:35.000So be sure that you're following me on X and on Loomer Unleashed, at Laura Loomer and at Loomer Unleashed, so that you get all of my live updates.
03:16:44.000And then there's also going to be some Democrat protests in D.C. at that time.
03:16:48.000So Charles and I will be covering these Democrat events and reporting on the events happening throughout the week of CPAC, which is, you know, it's all week.
03:16:57.000So it starts tomorrow and it ends on Saturday.
03:17:01.000And I'll be there for the entire time.
03:17:05.000There will be a live stream of CPAC activity and CPAC speeches on my Rumble page and on my X account on Thursday.
03:17:13.000So that will be probably earlier throughout the day since the speeches are, it's going to be too late, obviously, to do live speeches in the evening because it's not going to be like regular scheduled programming for Loomer Unleashed.
03:17:27.000So just be sure that you follow me on RumbleRumble.com slash Laura Loomer.
03:17:31.000click the follow button and download the rumble app and you'll be sure that you always get notifications every single time i go live so that when i go live at cpac you can catch my stream someone said laura are you joining the fbi to work for cash I should.
03:17:52.000I'm a pretty damn good investigator, right?
03:17:54.000My team here at Loomer Unleashed is very good.
03:18:12.000Also, it's worth noting that USAID is basically ActBlue.
03:18:16.000So, it's interesting how all these protests are popping up and ActBlue is directly tied to USAID. And the protests are supposed to be protesting the defunding of U.S. aid.
03:18:28.000And people at these protests who have no affiliation with the Democrat Party, obviously a lie, just prove that, are advocating for the assassination of Doge officials.
03:18:38.000It's the Democrat Party financing protests that are calling for the assassination.
03:18:42.000So once again, they are inciting silence.
03:18:51.000And political revolution goes back to 2016.
03:19:00.000I'm not saying political revolution is new.
03:19:03.000What I'm saying is that this movement, 50-51, they're saying it's new, but it's really just an offshoot of political revolution, which is a Bernie Sanders 2016 movement.
03:19:22.000They said it's Laura posting all of this on X.
03:19:31.000Yeah, we're doing this new format now with the show where we're actually gonna start breaking a lot of these stories on the show as opposed to just posting everything on X because it also gives people more of a reason Not that you don't want to watch the show anyway.
03:19:45.000I mean, the show's great, but I think it's really exciting to break these stories in real time and to teach you all how to do this investigative reporting so that you can do it yourself.
03:19:53.000And we have 100,000 live viewers right now on...
03:19:57.000On X and we also have live viewers on Rumble.
03:20:03.000And if you enjoy it, you should support it.
03:20:05.000You should support my work by either subscribing to my X account or by clicking the follow button and the get lumered button here on Rumble so that you can subscribe for $7 a month on my locals page.
03:20:17.000We'll take two more comments and questions and then I gotta go pack because...
03:20:22.000I'm the worst packer ever, and I'm always up super late the night before I travel, and I'm going to be up all night because I have to find my winter outfit so that I can look professional, look comfy, look chic, but also not freeze my ass off since it's going to be snowing.
03:21:22.000Well, thanks so much for tuning in to another very exciting episode of Loomer Unleashed.
03:21:26.000As I said, there is not going to be Loomer Unleashed on Thursday at 9pm Eastern because I'll be reporting live from CPAC, so be sure that you're putting on notifications on my X account and on my Rumble channel so that you get notifications when I go live.
03:21:42.000And follow all my updates from Washington, D.C. and Maryland, where I'll be reporting on all of the activities taking place and all the protests.
03:21:51.000I'm sure that there's probably going to be protests because there's always protests at CPAC every single year.
03:21:56.000Never a dull moment, especially now that Trump is back in office.
03:21:59.000I'm sure that it's going to be more exciting than it was the last four years for the last four CPAC conferences.
03:22:06.000But with that, thank you so much for tuning in, and I will see you next Tuesday for another live episode of Loomer Unleashed.
03:22:13.000Have a great weekend, and I'll see you next week.
03:22:16.000There is a young female journalist, conservative journalist, by the name of Laura Loomer.
03:22:25.000If America's men acted like Laura Loomer, our problems would be fixed in about five minutes.