In this episode of Zero Hedge Live Debate, we are joined by conservative journalist Laura Loomer and stand-up comedian Dave Smith to discuss the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, and the role of the right and the left in supporting both sides.
00:12:13.000Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which is an offshoot of Hamas.
00:12:17.000Moms were raped in a house while their babies were put in an oven.
00:12:21.000We will continue to call for a ceasefire, Mr. Chair.
00:12:34.000Welcome everybody to the inaugural Zero Hedge live debate.
00:12:39.000Zero Hedge is a libertarian anti-establishment and fiercely independent media platform which in the past has had its own fair share of adverse encounters with the ruling class and has been censored on multiple occasions by the mainstream media and big tech.
00:13:20.000Informative, and we urge you to submit your questions on X. Tonight's format will be 90 minutes of commercial-free, hard-hitting, uncensored debate, and we will leave the last 30 minutes open to answer your questions.
00:13:35.000With that being said, let's meet our panelists.
00:13:40.000Open-ended, why don't you introduce yourself, give yourselves your bio, let the people know who you are, and most importantly, what side you fall on in this conflict.
00:13:54.000I'm a conservative investigative journalist.
00:13:57.000I got my career started working undercover with Project Veritas and James O'Keefe and I then launched my own independent media company and a lot of people came to know me through conservative and I guess
00:15:23.000Within the Jewish community you know there's there's 15 million Jews left on this planet and you look at the fact that there's 2 billion Muslims and yet there's such a fraction right there's such a fraction within the Jewish community and so as a Jew right I'm also really looking forward to kind of further understanding right how we got here as Jews why there's not really much unity it seems within the Jewish community in condemning the attacks on our people and I think
00:15:51.000What's been very alarming to me is generally you see the left, right, take this position of emboldening and propping up and giving a platform to Islamic jihadists and terrorist sympathizers.
00:16:01.000And I think that since October 7th, I've just become increasingly alarmed at the amount of right-wing voices and even libertarian voices that I've seen try to justify what they call Palestinian liberation.
00:16:16.000Dave Smith, give yourself a brief introduction, and obviously you're sort of on the Palestinian side of things, but I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I'll let you explain for yourself.
00:16:26.000Yeah, I don't like this Palestinian flag being behind me.
00:16:28.000I'm not here to represent the Palestinian side.
00:16:32.000I am on the side of freedom and natural rights.
00:16:37.000I am on the side of all non-violent people and I oppose all people who initiate violence against peaceful people.
00:16:46.000And a political commentator, a lot of people know me, I'm a regular on the Joe Rogan Experience, and I do a lot of big shows like Your Great Show, with the legend Patrick Bette David, and Timcast, and Glenn Beck, and stuff like that.
00:16:58.000I think that what Laura just said, opening with this kind of, you know, binary of you either support what Hamas did, or you're enabling it, is exactly the problem.
00:17:11.000And it's been the problem in the United States of America for
00:17:34.000With many egregious crimes on both sides.
00:17:37.000And the reason why there's probably some division amongst Jewish people, or there's some division amongst even conservatives and libertarians, is because what's currently happening right now in Gaza is horrific.
00:18:16.000I would never support Hamas as he did actively for years as an intentional strategy to divide the Palestinian movement.
00:18:25.000That's what Benjamin Netanyahu did, and maybe we'll get into that at some point.
00:18:28.000But I don't support anybody who initiates violence against peaceful people.
00:18:35.000I support peace and I support civilization.
00:18:38.000Well, and I also reject this idea that people who say that you're saying that you either condemn Hamas or you don't.
00:18:47.000And then he tried to compare me to George W. Bush and say that I'm an interventionist or that the people who are saying what I said in my opening statement would make me an interventionist.
00:19:43.000And we shouldn't be trying to make it an issue of US foreign policy in the terms of, oh, well, whether the United States is going to intervene.
00:19:50.000No, this is about, from the very beginning, it's always been about the United States and the American people and just people all around supporting Israel's right to defend itself.
00:19:59.000You can support Israel's right to defend itself and to completely neutralize Hamas and also take the position of, we don't need to be sending additional aid to Israel.
00:20:08.000We don't need to be putting troops on the ground.
00:20:12.000But there seems to be this idea and this narrative that I find deeply disturbing.
00:20:17.000You opened up your statement by saying, Dave, that it's absolutely horrific what is happening in Gaza.
00:20:23.000It is absolutely horrific what happened in Israel and what happens in Israel on a daily basis, not just because of Hamas, but the threat of Islam.
00:20:31.000And until we actually are able to have an open, honest conversation about what this is all about,
00:20:44.000This is an ideological war that has everything to do with the ideology of Islam.
00:20:49.000And I'm hoping that, you know, I can use my my time here today in front of the massive Zero Hedge platform to give people a little bit of an education on Islam, because it's not as simple as talking about, you know, human rights violations or
00:21:06.000Apartheid, which is, you know, these are some of the talking points that the pro-Palestinian crowd likes to use.
00:21:12.000They never want to talk about the way that Islam subjugates non-believers, right?
00:21:17.000The way that the Hamas Covenant, Hamas of course is the body that controls Gaza.
00:21:24.000There's overwhelming support by the Palestinian people for Hamas, okay?
00:21:29.000There were polls that were recently just conducted by Arab-Palestinian organizations, and I brought those today as citations.
00:21:40.000These are Palestinian polls that show that if elections were held, you know, among the Palestinian people today, they would call for Mohammed Abbas to resign, and they would vote for and elect Ismail Haniyeh, who's the leader of Hamas.
00:21:57.000So there's overwhelming majority support amongst the Palestinian people as a whole for Hamas.
00:22:03.000So you can't say, right, that the Palestinian people do not support what is happening when the Palestinian people are governed by Hamas.
00:22:10.000And I brought you a copy of the Hamas charter today so that you can see for yourself that this is all about Islam.
00:22:17.000This isn't about Israel, this isn't about water, this isn't about electricity, this isn't about babies.
00:22:24.000This is about the Islamic resistance movement and the Hamas covenant that explicitly calls for the eradication of Israel.
00:22:31.000It says Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it just as it obliterated others before it.
00:22:39.000David, how do you distinguish between Hamas, Palestine, Gaza, the West Bank, everything that's going on?
00:22:46.000I know she just kind of gave a lot of information right there, but this is Israel-Palestine, not necessarily Israel-Hamas, but she sort of positioned that it is actually, in this instance, Israel versus Hamas.
00:22:59.000Well, look, there's a lot to respond to there, but I'd say that, first off, I did not at all imply or suggest that you were an interventionist.
00:23:07.000I didn't suggest that you were George W. Bush or anything like that.
00:23:11.000I'm saying that the oversimplified binary thinking that you demonstrated in your opening statement is the same problematic binary thinking that George W. Bush demonstrated.
00:23:21.000When he said, you're either with us or you're with the terrorists.
00:23:50.000The fact is that decent people who are looking at this situation will be concerned about killing innocent babies.
00:23:57.000Now, in terms of what you said about how do you differentiate Hamas from the Palestinian people, from the people in Gaza, from the people in the West Bank, well, Hamas is not an issue in the West Bank.
00:24:06.000It's not as if they have their freedom there either.
00:24:10.000We can differentiate it as much as we can.
00:24:13.000Between differentiating Adam and Joe Biden.
00:24:16.000And the fact that Joe Biden was elected, and okay, you can give me stuff on that.
00:24:20.000Maybe he wasn't, I don't know, whatever.
00:24:21.000I don't know what you Trump supporters say about the last election.
00:24:28.000Sure, and we can make those assertions, sure.
00:24:31.000Anyway, but I will tell you that no matter who, the idea that if you voted for this government, which by the way, when was the last time Gaza had an election?
00:24:40.000And that's something we need to discuss.
00:25:08.000And so, look, but all of that is, the logic that if you voted for your government, which I would argue that Hamas is not really a government, but if you argue that you voted for your government and therefore you're on the hook for the crimes of your government, well then congratulations, you have embraced the logic of Osama bin Laden.
00:25:42.000Because you elected this government that's done all these things to the Muslim world.
00:25:46.000I think for civilized people, what makes a lot more sense is to draw the line at a distinction between those who are initiating violence and those who are not.
00:25:56.000That's why Hamas is completely, even if they have a legitimate beef with the Israeli government, they're completely wrong to target civilians.
00:26:02.000And even if the Israeli government has a legitimate beef with Hamas, as they do, they have no excuse for just slaughtering innocent civilians.
00:26:11.000It's wrong and there's no reason for us to accept that.
00:26:15.000One thing to you is, who do you, do you place a certain amount of blame on who for this current war that's going on right now?
00:26:21.000Like how would you place blame on this?
00:26:23.000Well, I mean, there's a lot of blame to go around, right?
00:26:26.000So, again, as I was saying, there's blame on anybody who's been violent toward innocent people.
00:26:31.000But if you want to, like, zoom out and look at the history of this situation, then, like, yes, there's a whole lot of blame to go around.
00:26:39.000And the truth is that the Israeli government, say, from its inception, and we could go even earlier than that, but in 1947, when the UN partition recommendation first came out, the Jewish
00:26:52.000Zionist settlers owned about 10% of the land, okay?
00:26:57.000And the UN recommended that they get 56% of the land.
00:27:01.000And so immediately, the Zionists accepted this agreement, and the Arabs said, no, we don't accept this recommendation from the UN, which by the way, had no authority to just create nations out of nothing.
00:27:11.000And then there was a civil war broke out immediately.
00:27:14.000Other Arab countries intervened as well.
00:27:58.000Isn't that what happens in war, though?
00:28:00.000Well, I mean, look, it has happened throughout history in war.
00:28:03.000But no, the entire tradition of modern Western civilization, particularly post-World War II, has been to reject the idea that you can annex territory through war.
00:28:14.000And again, I'm not saying we didn't do that with the Native Americans.
00:28:47.000I will say that we need to have a conversation about Islam.
00:28:50.000And I just read the charter, and look, the Palestinians have been offered solutions multiple times, and they've rejected them, as you said.
00:28:57.000You said yourself that they rejected this resolution in the U.N.
00:29:19.000Well, if you read this Hamas Charter, and it's so important for people to understand, you can see within Article 8, okay, Article 8 of their own Hamas Charter, and I brought this because it is so important for people to understand this amid all of the propaganda, okay?
00:29:33.000This is, this is what these people believe.
00:29:39.000They say, Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Quran its constitution, Jihad is its path, and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
00:29:50.000And again, the very beginning opening statement of the Hamas Charter, which majority of the Palestinian people support, okay?
00:29:57.000It says, Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it.
00:30:02.000It doesn't say until Hamas will obliterate it.
00:30:04.000Islam will obliterate it just as it obliterated others before it.
00:30:08.000And so you're not going to, you could give them everything that they wanted.
00:30:12.000The Israelis have given the Palestinians 97, 98, 99% of the line items that they have requested in all of the peace negotiations.
00:30:20.000But the one thing that they want that is never included in those negotiations is the complete annihilation of the 15 million Jews left on this planet.
00:31:12.000But essentially what you're saying is regarding the Hamas Charter, you know, everyone's out there chanting, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
00:31:19.000That's sort of the essence of what the Hamas Charter is.
00:32:00.000What I'm saying is... This doesn't come from Israel.
00:32:02.000I didn't say that didn't come from Israel.
00:32:04.000I'm saying the Israeli propaganda is when you say Israel's offered them 98%, 99% of what they want and they just won't take it.
00:32:12.000All this time Israel is dying to give them a stake.
00:32:15.000Like just on the face of it, doesn't that kind of sound ridiculous?
00:32:17.000Whether it was the Oslo Accords, whether it was... Have you ever seen Netanyahu's videotape when he didn't know he was being videotaped when he talked about the Oslo Accords?
00:32:38.000But he was talking about how Israel ultimately got to decide what every military zone and danger zone was, and then he defined it as everywhere.
00:33:12.000I'm not denying that there's a problem in the Islamic world.
00:33:15.000I'm not denying... Obviously, you could look through the Islam... I'm a libertarian.
00:33:18.000I believe in natural rights and individual liberty.
00:33:20.000Obviously, I see problems in the world.
00:33:23.000However, if you're going to look at this as an American, or as somebody who's supporting the Israeli point of view, and you're going to say, well, look at these savages.
00:33:34.000Does it not give you pause for a moment that Israel
00:33:38.000The United States of America have for decades been intentionally, strategically, and explicitly supporting the most radical elements of Islam.
00:33:49.000That America has supported Saudi Arabia, the biggest exporter of Wahhabism in the world, that they've funded, armed, and trained Al Qaeda and ISIS, and that it was, and I noticed this didn't get a response at all, that it was Israeli policy to support, prop up, and fund
00:34:31.000He said, he said, oh, we don't want to think about, you know, the way that these people feel because of wars, because of wars that have been, you know, inflicted upon them by the United States of America, the war on terror, and, you know... No, that's not what I'm saying.
00:34:43.000But that is, that is kind of the line of thinking that you're taking, right?
00:34:54.000I'll ask the question very clearly, okay?
00:34:56.000If you're going to say that radical Islam, or as you call it, just Islam, is this problem, then how do you feel about the fact for the last, let's say, 60 years, the United States of America and Israel has explicitly funded,
00:35:12.000For stated strategic reasons, the worst elements of radical Islam, Hamas, Al Qaeda, ISIS, Wahhabism, and they've said they're doing it for a reason, to undermine their competing interests in the Muslim world.
00:35:39.000I have obviously said that it is wrong to support Hamas but- So it was wrong when Israel did that?
00:35:44.000The question doesn't really make any sense because when you think about it- How does it not make any sense if Netanyahu was supporting the terrorism?
00:37:04.000But as I just explained, okay, here in the United States of America, people are brainwashed into thinking, right, because we have the First Amendment and freedom of religion here, people think, oh, that's how people get to practice Islam and
00:37:36.000Well, pushing for reformed versions of Islam, and I think you'll agree with me here.
00:37:39.000Yeah, there's lots of places where that's true.
00:37:42.000No, that is the standard in every majority Muslim country.
00:37:45.000And so Americans are not really living in reality, right?
00:37:48.000Because here in the United States of America, you do have what you call reformed Muslims who are able to live here, right?
00:37:55.000But they understand that if they were to do that in their own countries where they came from, they would be killed for doing so.
00:38:00.000So Laura's absolutely right about this, but like, let's actually live in reality.
00:38:03.000So absolutely, I mean look, in Saudi Arabia, it is like, it is the shame of the world that you can be, I mean, they'll cut your arm off for stealing, they execute people for being openly gay, I mean they do things that are just horrific.
00:38:20.000All I'm saying here is that, like, I'm fine with judging them, but when you're going to sit here as an American, a country that our government has maybe a hundred thousand times as much power as the entire Muslim world combined, I mean, we literally here in the United States of America, our president can make a decision, if they wanted to, and any one of these Muslim countries doesn't exist anymore.
00:39:00.000We have propped up the Saudis since the 1970s.
00:39:05.000So I'm fine with like, hey, if you want to sit here and you want to judge other people, look, if we were a perfectly free moral society, I'd be fine with us very sharply criticizing these other countries who just don't have freedom like we have.
00:39:18.000Well, it seems like under Joe Biden, these countries are doing just well.
00:39:21.000I mean, he just allocated another $10 billion of funding to the Iranians today.
00:39:25.000And as we know from reports that have even been confirmed by The Wall Street Journal,
00:40:11.000One point for you, David, then we're going over to you.
00:40:13.000So, but as much as you kind of criticized the Palestinians, because look at this opinion poll, they support Hamas.
00:40:19.000But when we're talking about the most radical element in Islam, which is Saudi Arabia, you are actively campaigning for a man who poured in tens of billions of dollars to that country.
00:40:30.000So what responsibility do you face for that?
00:40:33.000Do you face for propping up the most radical form of Islam?
00:40:36.000I'm not personally propping up the most radical form of Islam.
00:40:39.000No, you're just voting for the person.
00:40:40.000No, you're just voting for the guy who does it.
00:40:41.000President Trump, okay, President Trump... See, it's not fair anymore.
00:40:44.000It's not fair anymore to blame you for that.
00:40:47.000He carried out the execution of Qasem Soleimani, okay?
00:40:51.000And speaking of relations between the Israelis and the Palestinians...
00:40:53.000You know, President Trump had his historic Abraham Accords and his Peace Through Prosperity program, which, you know, he was trying to implement before the election was stolen, of course, was going to offer financial incentives to the Palestinians because under the Obama administration, you know, prior to President Trump, our government was sending millions of dollars of aid to the Palestinians every single year until, you know, we were able to introduce the Taylor Force Act.
00:41:36.000And every single time, one of these jihadists would either murder an American citizen or an Israeli, mostly just a Jew, because let's be honest, that's what they're targeting.
00:41:43.000They didn't care if they were American Jews or Israeli Jews, because in the case of Taylor Force, who was an American, right, he was murdered, he was Jewish.
00:41:53.000And so I'm not going to sit here and allow you to try to demonize- This is the pay for slay that you're talking about.
00:41:57.000The pay for slay program tried to demonize President Trump when President Trump, he was probably the most anti-Islamic terror, the most effective president we've ever had when it comes to combating Islamic terrorism.
00:42:21.000The thing is here is that I'm not a partisan and you are so there's an asymmetry here where you're saying well Obama did this but Trump, yeah Obama was terrible and the worst thing that Obama did in his foreign policy was that he funded and backed Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria, Libya and Yemen.
00:42:38.000And to Trump's great credit, when Trump first came in, one of the first things he did, and it was one of the best things he did in his administration, was he ended the CIA program to back all the anti-Assad rebels in Syria.
00:42:51.000And this is what opened the door for ISIS to be destroyed, which by the way, a lot of that was also Assad and Vladimir Putin, but I'll give Trump credit, he took part in some of that as well.
00:43:00.000I really give him credit for ending that CIA program.
00:43:02.000But you know what he continued to do through every single day of his administration?
00:43:06.000Was continue Obama's war in Yemen on the side of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.
00:43:11.000So I'm just here where I'm not a Democrat or a Republican, so I can just criticize both of them.
00:43:35.000One of the reasons why Iran trained the Hamas and Hezbollah operatives to further destabilize peaceful relations between the Israelis and the Palestinians, because Iran knows that if they were able to have Saudi Arabia help normalize and be on board with normalized relations between the Israelis and the Palestinians, then it would be a problem.
00:43:55.000If you've got to support a genocide in Yemen in order to get Saudi Arabia to be friends with Israel, that's a good deal.
00:44:04.000You're condemning the attacks on Palestinians, but at the end of the day, President Trump had relations with Saudi Arabia to try to reduce the killing of both Israelis and Palestinians.
00:44:14.000Well, they say the enemy of the enemy is my friend, and that obviously everyone is going against Iran.
00:44:19.000But here's what we want to do right now, Laura, excuse me.
00:45:47.000So a lot of these images were specifically from the music festival that famously hundreds of just innocent party goers actually partying in the name of peace, ironically enough, sadly enough, were killed, were slaughtered at the hands of Hamas.
00:46:02.000So when you see images of this, you've seen countless videos like this, what say you?
00:46:14.000So I'd say my first thought is that this is horrific and that anybody who did this ought to pay for it.
00:46:21.000And then I would say that my second thought after that kind of processing it is I just go, my God.
00:46:27.000Like, what the punishment, first what the punishment for anyone who perpetrated this should be, but then what the punishment for Benjamin Netanyahu to be the longest serving Prime Minister of Israel and embark in an explicit policy to prop up Hamas for strategic reasons.
00:46:43.000And if you haven't looked into this, by the way, this is not, this may sound like conspiracy theory for people who don't like follow this stuff and know, but this is in the front pages of Haaretz and the Times of Jerusalem.
00:46:52.000Why don't you clarify exactly what you mean by, listen, Bibi Netanyahu, the Prime Minister, I think he's on his fifth term right now, openly advocating for Hamas.
00:46:59.000He openly supported Hamas, and the reason he did is because even though when Benjamin Netanyahu- But where's your source on this?
00:47:17.000Haaretz and the Times of Jerusalem from the last couple weeks, okay?
00:47:20.000So those are two sources on it, but I could also just send you his quotes in front of Likud party members.
00:47:26.000Now, when Benjamin, this is just a fact.
00:47:28.000If you don't know it, you don't know it, but go look it up and I promise you Twitter will inundate you with the source.
00:47:33.000The first sentence I said was giving you sources.
00:47:37.000So what he said, even though when he comes over to America, you know, when he's asking for billions in our taxpayer money, he says he supports a two-state solution somewhere in the future.
00:47:46.000But when he's talking to his own Likud party members, what he says is the reason we must support Hamas is because we're against the Palestinians ever having a state.
00:47:55.000First, there were two basic strategies.
00:47:57.000One was to divide the Palestinians in the West Bank versus the Palestinians in Gaza.
00:48:01.000And number two, which you can understand Adam, if you're the international community,
00:48:06.000Sure, I mean, if there's a secular nationalist group who asks for statehood, maybe you listen to them in Palestine.
00:49:17.000They, and if they were to have their elections today, they would prefer Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas over Mohamed Abbas.
00:49:23.000And so the fact of the matter is, is that when you go to the Karim Shalom aid distribution center, and I have been there, okay, on the border of Gaza,
00:49:31.000Well, who controls the flow of aid once it's given by the Israelis?
00:50:01.000And so when we want to talk about resources and electricity and fuel... No, but let me finish.
00:50:06.000Fuel and water being cut off to the Palestinian people, I agree with you that the Palestinian people are an occupied people and they're occupied by Hamas.
00:50:15.000They're not occupied by Israel, they are occupied by Hamas.
00:50:18.000And so, if you're upset, if you're one of these people that's, you know, that's saying free Palestine and the streets of America or Europe or all around the world where we're seeing these, and I'll say they're not exactly organic protests, okay?
00:50:30.000Just two weeks ago, there was an investigative report that was released, I believe it was, by the Washington Examiner, if I'm not mistaken.
00:50:39.000And one of the largest shell companies and organizations that the Democrats use for the sake of, I'll say, laundering their funds and laundering money to progressive leftist organizations that falsely identify themselves as 501c3 organizations and actually are, you know, violating IRS tax structure and engaging in partisan political activities, OK, they were found to be supporting Palestinian terrorist initiatives.
00:51:47.000It may not have been the biggest protest, but we walked through a huge... It wasn't the one with the picture on London Bridge, but we walked over London Bridge, and then you got there... What was that like?
00:51:55.000Was it the one where they were waving the Hamas and the Taliban flags?
00:51:57.000No, it was just... You know, I'll be honest, and this is being Jewish and out of the country, I didn't stick around to find out too much, but I just saw a bunch of Palestinian flags, and there were like a whole bunch, like 50,000 maybe of them or something, and then we were like, all right, let's go.
00:52:10.000I know you're being funny and prestigious, but why didn't you stick around and hang out with the Palestinian Hamas crowd?
00:52:25.000Well, I probably, I mean, my guess would be that I disagree with many people who are at that protest.
00:52:31.000I might agree on some things and disagree on others, but regardless, let me just say, look, I really, and I'm just kind of joking around, but that really did happen, but I kind of sympathize, Laura, with like, you're taking this position, and I understand you don't want to grapple with what I've said, and I've said it now three or four times, and there just won't get a response, but look, it's not that I'm saying
00:52:53.000There was a conspiracy where Netanyahu was propping up Hamas because he thought, I'm saying he said it.
00:53:01.000He's on the record saying it, as are all of the leaders in his party.
00:53:05.000And if you're going to sit here and condemn Hamas, how can you not just go, man, that was such a terrible strategy to prop up this group that then led over and killed all these people.
00:53:16.000And by the way, how the hell, a huge question that we should all be concerned about.
00:53:19.000I think that your definition of propping up and mine are a little bit different.
00:53:21.000I'm saying Netanyahu's definition of it.
00:53:23.000But when you're saying controlling the flame, because the region is controlled by different factions, not of Islam, but you have Palestinian Islamic Jihad, you have Hamas.
00:54:05.000People need to understand, right, that these are not people trapped in some open-air prison, okay?
00:54:11.000These are people who elected an Islamic terrorist organization to represent them.
00:54:17.000There are active polling measures taking place this week by Palestinian media, by Palestinian—these are Muslim organizations that are conducting polls that show that over 58 percent of the Palestinian population would elect Ishmael Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas, even after watching all the havoc that Hamas has brought, right?
00:54:40.000And I'm not saying that there aren't innocent people.
00:54:43.000But at what point in time do the Palestinian people, right, if they want to claim to be innocent civilians, at what point do they have a responsibility to restore or kind of get rid of this status quo?
00:54:56.000Because don't people in all societies have a responsibility to challenge or overthrow governments if their governments are not serving the people?
00:55:07.000The United States of America, in the last 20 years, okay?
00:55:11.000Between the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, which I think we can all probably agree were, like, just ridiculous catastrophes that we never should have fought.
00:55:21.000Let's also add in there the war, uh, Obama's, which I'm sure you'll agree with me about, Obama overthrowing Gaddafi in Libya and leading to the migrant crisis into Europe was an absolute disaster.
00:55:30.000Let's also throw in there the attempt- And bringing in all these refugees.
00:58:01.000I think that we're watching and we're witnessing the third administration, the third term of Barack Hussein Obama.
00:58:05.000And when you look at the fact that Joe Biden decided upon assuming the office and taking the transition of power, assuming the White House, do you know who he put in charge of being the Senior Director of Intelligence at the National Security Council?
00:58:22.000He put a Muslim, jihadist, anti-Jewish, anti-Israel, Palestinian individual by the name of Maher Batar, who also served in Barack Hussein Obama's National Security Council.
00:58:34.000And so, I was able to, I actually broke this story, and this was released on my ex-account, on my website, and people can, you know, follow my reporting on Loomer.com, but it was Maher Batar who gave the directive to, we share intelligence with Israel when it comes to combating Hamas and Hezbollah, because Hamas and Hezbollah,
00:58:52.000Okay, and these proxies, whoops, that are being funded by Iran, they're coming across our southern border.
00:58:59.000So this isn't just an issue that's unique to Israel.
00:59:01.000These people are making their way through Joe Biden's open borders, our porous borders.
00:59:05.000They're making their way through the Darien Gap.
00:59:07.000They're making their way through Venezuela, and they are coming in, and a security advisory that was just leaked and released, and I believe it, you know, I broke this story first, and my reporting was confirmed by Daily Caller weeks later.
00:59:22.000It came out of their San Diego office that said that they have active Hamas and Hezbollah terror cells here in the United States of America.
00:59:28.000So when are we going to, when are we going to call out the allocation of funds to these other countries as well?
00:59:33.000Joe Biden is not only sponsoring the attacks on Israel right now by funding jihadists, but also his own appointees within the National Security Council gave the directive to not monitor Hamas and Hezbollah.
00:59:47.000When are we going to hold the Biden administration accountable?
01:00:31.000Well, right, but you kind of made it sound like it is.
01:00:33.000But we have defense negotiations with Israel where they have to purchase weapons from us.
01:00:36.000I mean, it's not just like we're giving Israel tons of money for nothing.
01:00:42.000There's no agreement that Barack Obama had to use his veto power at the United Nations to veto everything that was condemning Israel.
01:00:51.000I think it's actually much more complicated than that.
01:00:53.000Now, if you're going to say we have to hold the Biden administration accountable, I am so with you on that.
01:00:58.000We should also hold Obama's administration accountable and Donald Trump's administration accountable.
01:01:03.000We should also hold Benjamin Netanyahu's administration accountable.
01:01:06.000And if we're going to say that there's like, you know, the administration is doing these bad things and funding these groups again, I'll just come back to, I don't know how, I just don't understand how you can possibly take this line and still not be offended that Benjamin Netanyahu openly was propping up Hamas.
01:01:23.000But regardless of that, what you said before, of course Israel has a right to exist.
01:01:27.000Israel has a right to defend themselves.
01:01:29.000Jewish people have a right to defend themselves.
01:01:31.000But Palestinians also have a right to exist.
01:01:33.000They also have a right to defend themselves.
01:01:35.000And if we're going to just ignore that entire half of the equation, then we're never going to be having an honest conversation.
01:01:41.000But you should tell that to Hamas because nobody in Israel said that Palestinian lives don't matter.
01:01:46.000Nobody in Israel said that Palestinians don't have a right to exist.
01:02:51.000You have IDF soldiers risking their lives, okay, going into Gaza where they know that people want them dead because they were born Jewish, okay, and they are delivering incubators for Palestinian babies inside a hospital because Hamas has a tunnel underneath the hospital.
01:03:08.000They are making the Palestinian people human.
01:03:53.000I've been to Israel about six times and prior to COVID, I used to, there was a group called the United West and you know, I'm a Zionist and I'm a proud Zionist.
01:04:10.000I don't want to use the word Zionist like it's some kind of dirty word, but I firmly stand against that.
01:04:16.000And I used to lead a group of people, they were both Jews and Christians, Christian Zionists, and we would take a border security trip every single year and we would teach American Zionists, a lot of evangelicals, Christians and Jews, and we would teach them about border security.
01:04:29.000And we would go to the Lebanon border, we went to the Gaza border, and we would show people the importance of walls.
01:04:36.000Have you been to any Middle Eastern countries other than Israel?
01:05:06.000Yeah, well, I've been to the UAE, and I have, let's see, where else have I been?
01:05:34.000No, but seriously, everybody should go and see for themselves.
01:05:37.000Listen, look, it's just all of this, right?
01:05:39.000Like, let me first say, it's totally irrelevant, and you could say that if somebody in the year 2002, when the war drums were beating to go fight a war in Iraq, and if I were to sit here and say, we should not fight this war in Iraq, and then someone else goes, he's got weapons of mass destruction, he's in bed with Al Qaeda, and they go, and I've been to Iraq.
01:05:59.000Like, okay, but that's totally irrelevant to whether... But there's a difference between going to the country and actually seeing what's going on, like on the border.
01:06:07.000But lots of people can go to countries and not... Someone could come visit America and that doesn't mean they understand the totality of America.
01:06:13.000There is a difference between going to the U.S.
01:06:23.000But I'm saying it's irrelevant to whether you're right or wrong in the argument.
01:06:27.000Okay, let me just say, look, to your point, because I want to actually grant a point here, because I do think there's an asymmetry in this debate, where I'm not sitting here and saying, Palestinians have never done anything wrong to any Israelis, and I would never, like, even address the fact that this and this and this was a war crime or this.
01:06:45.000And it is certainly true, and a lot of the kind of, like, pro-Israeli loudest voices like to make this point a lot, Ben Shapiro's and probably yourself, and this is a fair point that I think everybody should recognize.
01:06:54.000I'm not a fan of Ben Shapiro, I'll just say.
01:06:56.000He may be Jewish, but just because he's Jewish doesn't mean that I agree with everything that Ben Shapiro says.
01:07:01.000I know, but I just want to make it clear.
01:07:03.000I'm just saying that other loud pro-Israeli voices will make this point, which you probably would agree with, so just listen to what I'm saying.
01:07:09.000That if you were, if all of us had to live as the average Arab citizen of a country
01:07:59.000And because I love liberty and I respect civilization, I recognize that.
01:08:03.000I think there's a fair reason to kind of support the people of Israel and the country.
01:08:10.000The point is that that's irrelevant to the conflict.
01:08:13.000In the same sense that if you were in a bar fight and someone and and if a cop showed up or and you were like telling him you saw a bar fight and you were like that this guy came at this guy with a bottle and he punched him back in the face and then you went oh well then I guess that guy was defending himself and this guy was the aggressor and then if the someone else came to the cop and they go yeah but the guy coming at him with a bottle he's really good to his wife.
01:08:36.000Like he always tells her she's beautiful, he doesn't cheat on her, he doesn't do anything.
01:08:39.000You'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's irrelevant to the conflict here.
01:08:44.000So just for an example, if you look, the average Muslim citizen in America has a much better life than the average Muslim citizen in Iraq under Saddam Hussein.
01:08:55.000But if you said who was the good guys and who were the bad guys in the war in Iraq, well the bad guys were the American military who were invading under false pretenses.
01:09:05.000Or really say the bad guys were the Bush administration.
01:09:09.000The soldiers were maybe brainwashed into it.
01:09:11.000But you get the point I'm making here?
01:09:13.000That even though we are a superior civilization than Saddam Hussein's Iraq was, that doesn't mean that you're not guilty of any crimes when you go over there and slaughter a million people and displace 15 million more on a war sold on lies.
01:09:29.000And the fact is that you can ignore it all you want to, but if you're going to pretend that there are no crimes,
01:09:35.000No moral crimes and legal crimes that have been committed against the Muslims by the Jews from 1948 till today, you are not living in reality.
01:09:45.000The truth is it's inexcusable what Israel has done to these people.
01:09:48.000They won a war in 1948 and they won a war in 1967, so these people have to be subjugated for eternity?
01:09:55.000And you think that's not going to breed blowback and resentment?
01:10:00.000But so are you basically proposing that we turn New York back over to the British?
01:10:45.000No, it actually makes more sense in terms of the Indians because they were the indigenous people living here and we kind of kicked them out.
01:10:50.000And the British were our colonizers who invaded us and we fought them off.
01:10:54.000So that's just a totally apples to oranges.
01:10:56.000But you're accusing the Israelis of being colonizers.
01:10:59.000But I'm just saying you accuse the Israelis of being... The example, if you just follow what I'm saying, the example to the natives would make more sense.
01:11:56.000There are people, not that many of them now, but there are people in Palestine who were the original people there.
01:12:02.000And so yes, of course, it's worth it to at least recognize that this happened, it was wrong, and there are going to be resentful feelings about that.
01:12:10.000But no, I wouldn't say we should give it back.
01:12:13.000It was wrong that Israel was surrounded by Islamic aggressors on every single border.
01:12:44.000They wanted to, well, you have to ask them.
01:12:47.000So let me just respond to a couple things you said here, because this is, I think, really important and gets to the crux of the matter.
01:12:52.000So number one, I'd say, OK, if you fled, some of them were forced out, some of them fled.
01:12:55.000We know all this from the historical record.
01:12:58.000Regardless, if some people start shooting outside my house and I take my family and run, I don't think that means that they own my house now.
01:14:39.000This was done during a Jewish holiday, okay?
01:14:42.000When the Jews were not using electronic devices so that people couldn't even call for emergency services, so that people couldn't even communicate with their loved ones.
01:14:54.000Okay, I'm going to read something to you now, because I want you to understand how this isn't just, you know, oh, the Palestinians got so angry with these Jewish-Israeli occupiers, and so they finally snapped and decided to fight back.
01:15:09.000In Islam, there is something called the Treaty of Hubadiyah, okay?
01:15:13.000The Treaty of Hubadiyah was an event, this is real, that took place during the lifetime of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.
01:15:21.000And in warfare, and whenever, you know, Muslims are dealing with Jews and the Islamic world, or anybody for that matter, when it comes to peacemaking treaties or discussions of peace, and especially in times of war, they have to refer to this Treaty of Hudaybiyyah, in which they have to go in increments of 10 years, right?
01:15:44.000And so Muslims are only allowed to attack when they're in a position of strength.
01:15:50.000And so if they're in a position of weakness, they have to retreat for 10 years, according to the Prophet Muhammad and the guidelines laid out in the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah.
01:16:01.000We know that there were Muslims both in Gaza, we know that the Iranians were funding Hamas and Hezbollah operatives, and that there was widespread coordination.
01:16:16.000To carry out this attack on Israel on October 7.
01:16:20.000And so, it's not as simple as just saying, oh, let's look at the history and let's look at the land disputes.
01:16:25.000We need to have a conversation and start educating people about the barbarism of Islam.
01:16:31.000They need to understand what the Treaty of Hudabiyah is.
01:16:34.000Our politicians need to understand this as it relates to foreign policy so that we don't spend billions of dollars, you know, trying to implement peace in the Middle East because there's never going to be peace.
01:16:55.000But who reflects on the last 20 years of American foreign policy and goes, you know, the problem is we never recognized that Islam was a threat.
01:17:03.000We've just been leaving them alone this whole time.
01:17:06.000Maybe we should bomb seven of their fucking countries.
01:17:19.000But he said one nice thing about Islam.
01:17:21.000Not that he launched two stupid catastrophe wars.
01:17:24.000But we wouldn't have needed to launch wars in the Middle East if our lawmakers understood that we were never going to be able to export democracy to the Middle East, okay?
01:17:33.000And so that really is the true anti-interventionist stance, is that when you have an actual understanding of Islamic doctrine and the fact that these people don't want peace, they don't want to coexist with other people, okay?
01:17:44.000They want you to either believe in Islam, they want you to be one of them, it's
01:17:49.000How many Palestinian babies can be killed?
01:18:11.000Is there a limit where you go- We don't know- No, no, you don't know.
01:18:13.000Don't tell me you believe in human rights.
01:18:15.000No, we don't know how many- Don't judge these people.
01:18:16.000We don't really know how many people have actually been killed, whether they're- Laura, nobody here is denying- But I want to make things clear.
01:18:21.000Is there a limit, though, where you go, that's too much?
01:19:28.000Look, it's unfortunate that people are dying, but at the end of the day, right, we need to have an honest conversation about what's going on.
01:20:04.000They did come out and say that basically Hamas's headquarters is under this Al Shifa Hospital and they're basically using babies and sick people as human shields.
01:20:16.000Because Netanyahu said, we're going to obliterate Hamas.
01:20:19.000And so they said, okay, you want to obliterate Hamas?
01:20:21.000Then we're just going to try to create another PR crisis.
01:20:24.000And then you're going to have all these leftist progressive organizations, as I said, funneling all this money so that people can be brainwashed into thinking that there's thousands of people around
01:20:33.000Yep, that's exactly what terrorism is.
01:20:36.000That's exactly what terrorism is, right?
01:20:50.000What I'm saying is that people need to understand that this is a war between good and evil, okay?
01:20:54.000And so if you want to liberate the Palestinian people, and you are, if you are one of those people that is foaming from the mouth, chanting free Palestine, okay, then you need to be in support of the eradication of Hamas, because the Palestinian people are never going to be truly liberated until they are liberated from their oppressors, and their oppressors are Hamas.
01:21:14.000Not the Jewish people delivering them incubators, not the Jewish people making sure that they have food and medical care, okay?
01:21:20.000Do you know that there are family members of Hamas terrorists who, you know, they themselves didn't carry out any acts of terrorism, and they were sick, some of them needed organ transplants, and they were actually given medical treatment.
01:21:34.000That's how humanitarian Israel is, okay?
01:21:37.000They are giving medical aid to family members of Hamas because they believe in the preservation of life.
01:21:43.000Well, okay, but they're also killing people in extremely high numbers.
01:21:46.000They are trying to protect themselves.
01:23:11.000Maybe we should, you know, we should contact Elon Musk because Elon Musk has allowed for Ishmael Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas, to have an ex-account.
01:23:18.000And so I think that what we should do is we should try to... You too!
01:23:21.000We should get... Yeah, but I'm not a terrorist, right?
01:24:12.000Why should I have to answer the question about when enough is enough?
01:24:15.000When Hamas is obliterated, that is when enough will be enough.
01:24:18.000Okay, so let's say in order to obliterate Hamas, and let's even say it's all on them because they're hiding in the basement of buildings where innocent people are.
01:24:26.000But let's say in order to eliminate Hamas...
01:24:32.000What I was referring to was the refugee center where there was one suspected Hamas member and they killed like 17 people or something like that.
01:24:39.000But let's just say, hypothetically, Hamas is embedded itself.
01:24:42.000They're doing this human shield thing where they're underneath buildings with innocent civilians.
01:24:47.000And in order to kill Hamas, it means 50,000 innocent men, women, and children have to die.
01:25:23.000So let's just... Israel is not trying to kill these people.
01:25:25.000Let's take for the sake of argument...
01:25:27.000You're asking me to decide how many people should be killed.
01:25:42.000And watch, you just won't answer the question.
01:25:44.000It's not that I'm not answering the question.
01:25:46.000You're literally not answering the question.
01:25:47.000Israel has been very strategic, and they have been very deliberate in trying to identify Hamas targets to reduce civilian casualties.
01:25:56.000And now, because of this, Hamas has decided to put their headquarters underneath high civilian populated areas.
01:26:03.000And so, I'm going to double down on what I said.
01:26:10.000If people have a problem with civilian deaths, and they have a problem with innocent children dying, and innocent women, and innocent men dying, and we all should be appalled at the idea of innocent children dying.
01:26:29.000The reality is that you're not seeing mass condemnation from people when it comes to Hamas putting their headquarters underneath these densely populated areas.
01:26:46.000We also need to really be critical of the information that we're seeing coming out of the media as it relates to the numbers, how many babies or how many civilians are dying.
01:26:57.000I don't know if you saw this, but Senator Tom Cotton, he actually just called for the DOJ to carry out an investigation because it was revealed that CNN
01:27:24.000You know, it's now coming out that the media has their own Hamas terrorist, confirming what we all know, that the media is the real terrorist organization that is wreaking havoc, not only in our country and sowing discord here in America, but all around the world.
01:27:37.000Additionally, you said the numbers come from the UN.
01:27:43.000They found United Nations and UNICEF medical kits on the back of the motorcycles and on the backs, like the backpacks, right?
01:27:51.000And with inside the backpacks of these Hamas jihadist killers who were going into these kibbutzes and murdering people.
01:27:57.000And so I take offense, not only as a journalist, but also as a Jew and somebody who's pro-Israel, that you're citing UN numbers.
01:28:05.000I mean, these people are literally giving medical supplies to Islamic terrorists.
01:28:09.000We cannot trust numbers coming out of the Gaza Ministry of Health when the Gaza Ministry of Health is literally controlled and operated by Hamas.
01:28:15.000Would you at least agree that whether it's a 10 to 1 or a 12 to 1 or a 5 to 1, they are winning this?
01:28:24.000I mean, as far as the body count goes.
01:28:26.000Well, you're not going to go up against the IDF and expect to win, and so I think that Hamas is getting what they deserve.
01:28:32.000But Dave, how does Israel, what are they supposed to do?
01:28:35.000Meaning, alright, so Amnesty International, you want to agree with them or not?
01:28:39.000I mean, I'm not here to fact, you know.
01:28:42.000Back check every single little stat, but during the 2009 investigation they found that Hamas stored munitions in hospitals and schools, basically their base out of there.
01:28:50.000The Wall Street Journal came out and said basically the center of the war is in fact this Al Shifa Hospital.
01:28:55.000So how should Israel deal with the fact that they're shooting missiles, bombs out of hospitals and schools?
01:29:05.000Okay, so there's several things to that, but I'm just going to start by just pointing out that it's like, I don't know Laura, there's been several times in this debate where you just won't respond to what I'm saying, and you just kind of won't answer it, so I'm not going to do that.
01:29:18.000What should the response be, say, to October 7th?
01:29:22.000Um, I would say that primarily, first of all, there were active hostages involved immediately.
01:29:29.000So I would say the first thing, much like what you do when, look, if a hostage, if there's a bank robber and he has a machine gun and he takes 12 hostages up with him, the response is not
01:30:01.000Have a true investigation to find out how the hell it is possible that the most prepared fortress of a country allowed the most surveilled area in the world, which is Gaza, to commit
01:30:15.000What the most obvious attack would have been, like this was not 9-11.
01:30:19.000This was not like, I know they could say George W. Bush got that one piece of intelligence that said planes into buildings, but planes into buildings was still a pretty wild thing to actually have happen.
01:30:27.000People crossing over the border from Gaza to kill Israelis is what you always had your eye on.
01:30:33.000So how in the hell did this possibly happen?
01:30:42.000Let's look into some of the more gruesome details about what really went on, what some of the first-hand accounts are, and then you should absolutely hold Benjamin Netanyahu and the Likud party accountable for this strategy of propping up Hamas and funding them that blew up in their faces.
01:30:58.000This is just what the Times of Israel piece the day after, I believe it was either on the 8th or the 9th.
01:31:03.000It was like either one or two days afterwards said, well, Benjamin Netanyahu's strategy blew up in his face.
01:31:52.000Would you say, oh, that's law enforcement, they're doing a great job?
01:31:54.000No, you would say that is unacceptable, and in fact, if they did that, you would not sit here and pretend that they cared about human rights, or they really were trying to not kill kids, but there was one bad guy in there, right?
01:32:06.000But see how that's totally acceptable when it's in Palestine?
01:32:44.000I'd feel the exact same way if anyone had that attitude with my kids.
01:32:47.000I'd be ready to join up with whoever the craziest group was who wanted to go get those people back.
01:32:52.000And likewise, you see the same thing after October 7th.
01:32:56.000What is everybody like you who supports Israel saying?
01:32:58.000Well, I'm ready to join up to go kill as many of them as we gotta kill to get rid of this problem.
01:33:03.000There's actually, maybe there's a lot more similarities than differences between these two sides.
01:33:07.000I'd like to counter this because even prior to the attacks on October 7th, okay, you see that there is essentially the equivalent of what would be considered Sesame Street, right?
01:33:16.000TV programming here for children in America.
01:34:43.000And there's hours, I'm sure you've seen some of these videos, of Palestinian mothers and women saying, we have so many children, we have eight children, and the reason why we have children is because our children are meant to die to become martyrs for the sake of killing the Jews.
01:35:02.000Well, some of them do, and it's horrible.
01:35:05.000There's also rhetoric on the other side, and I think we've all probably seen this, on both sides, since October 7th, where you have one side talking about flattening Gaza, they're all savages, kill all of them if we have to, drive all of them out of their land if we have to.
01:35:19.000You have another side who's like celebrating at times, like what happened on October 7th.
01:35:24.000All of that is horrific, but let's not pretend that it's only happening on one side.
01:35:29.000And that there's not also something to be said for what was being done to these people to begin with.
01:36:26.000There's a different world when MSNBC would let Pat Buchanan be on.
01:36:30.000And he's arguing about it, and he goes, look, what do you think her brother and her cousin and her nephew, who are they going to grow up to be?
01:36:42.000And it was almost like the exact amount of time.
01:36:44.000He said, like, where are they going to be in 15 years?
01:36:46.000It was something like 15 years before this event happened.
01:36:48.000But look, we've got to be, this is what Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan and all of the best of the paleoconservatives and paleolibertarians always recognized.
01:36:55.000All the true America first people recognized.
01:36:58.000This was Pat Buchanan's line, which I always loved.
01:37:28.000His complaints were that we prop up Israel and they abuse the Palestinians, that we have bases in Saudi Arabia, that we had the sustained bombing campaign against the Iraqis, and that we prop up brutal dictators in Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
01:37:42.000After 9-11, Colin Powell, the wisest member of George W. Bush's administration, who's still
01:37:49.000Deserves all of the evil things in the world to happen to him because he still went and lied us into the war in Iraq at the UN even though he knew it was all BS.
01:37:57.000His response to 9-11 in 2003 was to push for a two-state solution with the Palestinians and the Israelis.
01:38:03.000Because he knew, this is the cause of so much of the terrorism that we deal with.
01:38:08.000You simply have to give these people their natural rights.
01:38:11.000You don't, you can't sit here and say, you can have a state, when Israel has decided you've met X, Y, and Z, which by the way, you're never gonna meet, and then by the way, when they're talking to their own people, they talk about how they're trying to undermine that anyway.
01:38:26.000Is George W. Bush bailed on it because he was basically convinced by House members that you would alienate your evangelical Christian voting base and it would be a one-term election.
01:38:45.000No, but I'm just saying that a lot of people will say, oh, well, look at the war on terror.
01:38:50.000Look, I've been critical of it as well, but this is 1988 that we're talking about, okay?
01:38:54.000And so I don't really necessarily think that it's fair to say
01:38:58.000That, sure, if you watch your mother and your father get blown up, you're probably going to have a spirit of revenge and you're going to have deep-seated hatred and want to kill.
01:39:07.000Anybody would want to kill somebody that killed their family member, right?
01:39:12.000I think that that's just human nature.
01:39:14.000Whether it's, you know, a drunk driver, whether it's an act of terrorism, whether it's a murderer, whether it's, you know, whatever it may be.
01:39:33.000You can at least admit that maybe that's part of it.
01:39:36.000But I also think that it's a serious problem when from the moment a baby is born to a Palestinian, they are being taught Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it.
01:41:23.000What do you think the, like, the toughest right-wing militia members in America would be doing?
01:41:29.000They'd be throwing Molotov cocktails through their government building, they'd be running up suicide bombing themselves, and I bet they'd yell something about Jesus before they did it too.
01:41:38.000Because they'd probably start clinging to their religion.
01:41:40.000So, I'm just saying that, like, if we're unwilling, in this debate, in this divide,
01:41:46.000Try, make a real effort to put ourselves in their shoes and go, what would we do in that situation?
01:41:54.000If you imagine, listen, this is 1948 is not that long ago, okay?
01:42:26.000Now, you may not have this as much as I do, but in general I would say, for Jews this is true, that our parents' generation are way more connected to a serious form of anti-Semitism
01:42:38.000My grandfather was arrested by Nazis when he was a medical school student and the Jewish students were expelled from medical school and his medical diploma has a swastika on it.
01:42:56.000So just making the point that, you're right, I'm not, this is my family's history too, and most Jewish people's family's history, okay?
01:43:03.000And they were like, if you read the writing of the early Zionists, okay, which is like the late 1800s, it's all a reaction against the pogroms, which are, I mean, you ever read about like pogroms in Eastern Europe?
01:43:17.000I mean, it's just like the most horrific thing.
01:43:19.000Which are basically the Jewish ghettos of today.
01:43:20.000They're happening all over again right now.
01:43:24.000It's actually more disturbing than reading about the Holocaust.
01:43:26.000Even though the Holocaust was on, like, such a larger number, it's something about it, like, it's more systematized, and so it almost, like, removes you from the... But you read about the pogroms, the pogroms were just basically, like, your neighbors all decided they were gonna come in and rip your children apart and rape your wife in front of you and make you watch and then beat you to death.
01:43:48.000And this happened over and over and over again.
01:45:29.000People react to this level of violence.
01:45:32.000And if you want to understand what's going on in the world, if you want to understand what motivated Osama bin Laden to hit us on 9-11, if you want to understand what motivates Hamas to hit Israel, you've got to look at this or you're never going to get it.
01:45:44.000And this is the final point I'll make, because when you talk about these pogroms that are happening all over the world, look.
01:45:49.000The point of 9-11, Osama bin Laden's goal, which he explicitly wrote about, was what?
01:45:55.000It wasn't just to kill some Americans in the Twin Towers.
01:45:59.000It wasn't just that he thought if we took down the towers that would destroy the United States of America.
01:46:04.000His express goal was to get us to invade Afghanistan.
01:46:09.000He was trying to recreate what we trained him to do in 1979 to the Soviet Union.
01:46:15.000To lure us into Afghanistan to bankrupt us.
01:46:23.000And look at us, we're 20 years later, and I'm not saying our country hasn't exactly collapsed, but I bet all three of us and everyone in this room and everyone watching here would agree.
01:47:48.000There is a real threat right now that other Arab countries are going to get involved.
01:47:52.000This is something that hasn't happened since the 60s and 70s.
01:47:56.000There's a real chance of it right now because 100% of their populations are against this.
01:48:01.000And as much as, by the way, I might disagree a lot with what's being said at some of these anti-Israel protests as well.
01:48:05.000I'm sure all of us don't like some of the rhetoric.
01:48:07.000But it would behoove Israelis, and it would behoove people who are pro-Israel, to consider the possibility that maybe your rhetoric is actually somewhat right.
01:48:19.000I mean, I see all of these people who support Israel, and they constantly say to me, they go,
01:48:24.000Israel is this tiny little dot in a sea of Muslims.
01:48:29.000And these people would tear us all limb from limb if they had the shot at that.
01:48:32.000And also, by the way, Europe and America, there is a tremendous amount of anti-Semitism that is right under the surface.
01:48:39.000And if you just scratch it, it's all gonna pop up.
01:48:41.000And what they're all saying is over the last few weeks, we're seeing it.
01:48:52.000Maybe Israeli's best course of action is to tread lightly here and consider the fact that the world is sending you a message saying, you may be okay with killing tens of thousands of Palestinian babies, they are not going to take this.
01:49:05.000The world is not sending a message, okay?
01:49:07.000I talked about this and I highlighted this, okay?
01:49:10.000And then by the way, we're going to go right to the Twitter questions, X questions.
01:49:14.000The world is not responding to this, okay?
01:49:18.000Obviously, granted, okay, when you have majority Muslim nations and these are Muslims, they believe in the word of the Quran, okay?
01:50:12.000And this is why you have now Rashida Tlaib being censured, of course.
01:50:15.000And just today, actually, before coming onto this debate, it was uncovered that she's been a member of a pro-Hamas group where they glorify Hamas martyrs, okay, for the last six years, which, you know, is obviously including the time that she's been serving in Congress.
01:50:47.000So if they just don't take the oath, then they won't hate Jews anymore or something?
01:50:51.000No, but I'm trying to make the point that we shouldn't have any jihadists in Congress because their views and what they believe in is completely incompatible with Western civilization.
01:51:43.000I can get over some of the things that Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar have said about Jewish people, but what I don't like is their open association with groups like ISIS and the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas, which have all been documented and proven, okay?
01:52:00.000We want to talk about anti-semitism, this is why.
01:52:06.000You have January 6th political protesters right now who are rotting away in jail cells because they went inside the Capitol, but it's okay for Rashida to leave because she wants to cry Islamophobia and wants to pretend that she's a victim because she's a Palestinian, she's a Muslim, and we can have a full-blown Hamas erection.
01:53:29.000Who's the country, with the exception of Ukraine, just for the last year and a half, who's the country we've given the most foreign aid to?
01:54:28.000And with the amount of Jew hatred that's taking place and the fact that we can't even get every single member of Congress to agree to censure a member of Congress who supports Hamas, which I just read their charter says they want to kill Jews and they want Israel to completely be obliterated.
01:54:44.000What does that mean for the global population of Jewry?
01:54:47.000You're talking about Rashida Tlaib who was censured by 100% of Republicans, but only 20% of Democrats.
01:56:10.000Well, I've already said that I'm completely against the continued resolution that Speaker Mike Johnson just put forth.
01:56:18.000I've been very critical of the GOP breaking their promises when it comes to not just eliminating aid to Ukraine, but also adding additional aid to Israel.
01:56:26.000I think that there's ways that we can combat this terror threat and stand with Israel and also combat anti-Semitism without sending billions more dollars to Israel, Ukraine, or, you know, any other issue.
01:56:38.000Do you support the foreign aid to Israel?
01:56:40.000I think that we shouldn't be cutting all of the aid to Israel because we have a joint relationship with Israel and it's a misconception that they just get that aid for absolutely nothing, right?
01:57:00.000I 100% agree with you that there needs to be an investigation into how the biggest, you know, surveillance state, and they openly, you know, Israel brags about how sophisticated their surveillance state is.
01:57:11.000There needs to be an investigation into this intelligence failure, because it also impacts our national security, because we know that these operatives are coming across the U.S.
01:57:24.000And so I would much rather prefer, right, that we put those billions of dollars and militarize our own southern border so that we can keep these same Hamas and Hezbollah and IRGC operatives who are trying to attack Israel out of our country.
01:57:50.000Ron Paul always said, right, foreign aid is taxing poor people in rich countries to send to rich people in poor countries.
01:57:57.000And the fact that we're still doing this while our country is collapsing and we're falling apart is insane.
01:58:01.000But that's not even the worst part of it.
01:58:02.000Foreign aid really isn't a huge driver of the national debt, to be honest.
01:58:06.000The worst part of it is that we inherit this tremendous moral hazard in these parts of the world where, look,
01:58:12.000So Ukraine, which maybe we would agree on this, Ukraine, if America hadn't written them a blank check, would have been forced to negotiate with Russia on day one.
01:58:21.000And in fact, they were going to negotiate.
01:58:22.000They were almost at a ceasefire when we sent Boris Johnson over to make sure he didn't.
01:58:27.000And it's only because we go, we'll fund you until the end of time, that he'll keep fighting.
01:58:30.000And the truth is that Israel, talk about how radical Islam is, Israel has made peace with Egypt, they've made peace with Jordan, they've made peace with Saudi Arabia, they've made peace with... Not yet!
01:58:50.000But I'm just saying they're not at war.
01:58:52.000They haven't gone to war with any of these countries.
01:58:55.000There's one little sliver of Muslims who they haven't made peace with, and that might have something to do with the fact that they've been occupying
01:59:41.000But aside from that, is because they know that if they were to take all of these Muslims in, that that represents Israel getting 100% of what they never had a right to get anyway.
01:59:50.000And that the truth is that a lot of these people, as probably all of us would, they feel like they have a right of return to this land that was historically theirs.
01:59:58.000So what are you going to do when Biden, and this is happening by the way, they are in talks right now to have refugee resettlement of Palestinians here in the United States of America.
02:00:34.000Do you worry that even if we stopped funding Israel tomorrow, the Muslim world would still blame us for the funding them yesterday?
02:00:41.000Um, well, I mean, look, there is no undoing the past, and so I think there is a legitimate point to be made that it's just like, hey, look, say, like, for example, we never should have fought the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq and all of this, but we did, okay?
02:00:54.000So if we had a time machine, it'd be better to go back and not do that, but we don't, so what can we do now?
02:00:58.000But I would just say this, that there is actually a tremendous opportunity sometimes when these crises come up, and this really pisses off a lot of
02:01:09.000A lot of right-wingers, although the wisest of right-wingers, always got this.
02:01:14.000But, say for example, after 9-11, there was this incredible opportunity for America to unite the world.
02:01:22.000Russia, famously, Vladimir Putin, was like, what can I do to help you guys?
02:01:38.000No, fear of our response, I think, at that point.
02:01:41.000But even in Iran, there are stories, you can go read this, at their biggest, like, soccer stadium, I think it was like 60,000 people, and they had this huge moment of silence for what happened to people on 9-11.
02:01:53.000The Iranian government came out and condemned it right away.
02:01:56.000Now, there's a little bit of, like, a Sunni-Shiite beef there, too.
02:02:10.000And in this moment, just try to imagine if instead of going on mass killing sprees and just slaughtering innocent Muslims by the millions over the next 20 years, imagine we had just done the special ops missions in Afghanistan.
02:02:25.000We had trapped Osama Bin Laden in Tora Bora when we could have in late 2001 and we decided to let him go so George Bush could fight his war in Iraq.
02:02:33.000Imagine we had done that and then called the whole thing off.
02:02:36.000And then we had said, alright look, we took a real hit here.
02:02:40.000But, like, we get what the grievances of the other side were.
02:02:44.000And that doesn't mean we're not going to try to kill the people who killed us.
02:02:49.000But we're not just going to start slaughtering innocent people over this.
02:02:52.000All I'm saying, and I'm going to come off like a hippie here, but I actually think I'm in good standing with, like, conservative right-wing tradition, where what America is supposed to be is a city on a hill, not engaged in entangling alliances.
02:03:04.000Actually, maybe that's the most conservative thing you could say as an American.
02:03:07.000But we had an opportunity to do something.
02:03:09.000And so what I think Israel could have done here, and would do if America pressured them to, because all it takes is America saying, we're not going to back you on this unless you make an actual move for peace.
02:03:20.000Is they could have had an opportunity to say we're going to rise above this.
02:03:23.000We're going to demonstrate that we have respect for Palestinian life.
02:03:26.000We do not have any respect for the people who are responsible for this attack.
02:03:30.000We're going to do everything we can to kill them.
02:03:32.000But we're moving toward an actual peaceful solution here.
02:03:35.000We're giving you a real proposal of a two-state solution, not like the BS Oslo Accords.
02:03:40.000We're actually offering you what you want.
02:03:41.000Okay, you guys want to be your own government?
02:05:01.000Isn't it insane you have these like kind of dueling protests on on college universities and it's like hey how about you like just sit down and like I thought you're a university yeah sit down and argue this have the debate.
02:05:11.000Maybe Ben Shapiro could debate someone who's not 19.
02:05:35.000But give really what you think that people should understand on both sides to basically try to get to some sort of element of peace at the end of the day.
02:06:02.000I believe in liberty, and I hate the enemies of liberty.
02:06:05.000So, you know, this publication has been, like,
02:06:08.000Kind of an oasis in a desert for a lot of people like us for many, many years.
02:06:12.000So I really appreciate them having us.
02:06:14.000Look, I'll just kind of reiterate what I think are the most important points that are made in this debate.
02:06:19.000And I will say respectfully, I do not feel like I ever got a response to the main ones.
02:06:25.000Which is that you can't get away from this.
02:06:27.000If you're going to look at the Islamic world and say, we judge you by these standards, and what are the standards if we were going to judge them?
02:06:36.000Well, the standards are what makes us better than them, which I will say I kind of do agree.
02:06:40.000But what makes us better is that we're children of the Enlightenment, that we are the best of Western civilization, that we respect
02:06:48.000Individual liberty and property rights and peace over violence, right?
02:06:53.000But if we're going to say that, then how can we also say that while defending the most horrific violent actions towards these people?
02:07:01.000If we're going to blast radical Islam, how can we not at the same time criticize our own governments who have intentionally
02:07:10.000It stated explicitly that this was the strategy to fund the most radical Islamist groups in the world over and over and over again.
02:07:19.000Now maybe, and I'm quite open to this possibility, that even if we hadn't have done all of that, even if our governments, if Israel had never supported Hamas, and if we had never supported Wahhabism and Al Qaeda and ISIS and all of these other groups, perhaps still, Western civilization would be better.
02:07:39.000I'd even guess probably it would be, more advanced still.
02:07:43.000But knowing that we did that, how can we sit here and condemn their people without at least condemning our own government, who we have at least some degree of impact over, not that much, but at least some degree of influence, and not condemn them for supporting these very terrorist organizations, and at every single turn, you know why we supported them?
02:08:04.000Because they were always the enemy of the secular nationalists.
02:08:09.000And we didn't want them to have their own power.
02:08:13.000And so we supported the Islamic radicalists because we knew that they would undermine them.
02:08:18.000And in many cases undermine the commies also was part of the goal.
02:08:21.000But anyway, I don't know how you can look at the situation in Israel.
02:08:25.000Take the complete pro-Israel position, the complete anti-Hamas position, and not say Benjamin Netanyahu's stated, explicitly stated strategy of supporting Hamas blew up in his face.
02:08:37.000And man, can we not learn a lesson from that and never do it again.
02:08:58.000Three yids, I say, hashing it out on this conflict.
02:09:03.000But no, it's really great to be a part of the debate series for such a prestigious and impactful publication like Zero Hedge, which I read, and they're doing such a service to the world, especially in an age of censorship and propaganda.
02:09:15.000I think that Zero Hedge is one of the leading publications when it comes to bringing people
02:09:19.000Alternative media, independent media, and also news that is checking both the fourth estate, right, of our corrupt media establishment and also our corrupt governments.
02:09:30.000And that goes for both political parties.
02:09:33.000But what I will say is that there is a growing, disturbing trend of normalization and sympathizing behavior for Islamic jihadists, not just here in the United States of America, but also abroad, as we have seen.
02:09:49.000We need to be honest about the fact that this is an ideological war that has nothing to do with land disputes.
02:09:55.000This has nothing to even do with how the United States government plans on responding to these attacks by these Hamas terrorists on these innocent civilians.
02:10:06.000This is a reign of terror that has been ongoing.
02:10:09.000It's an ideological reign of terror that has been carried out by Islam for 1400 years.
02:10:17.000This has nothing to do with with really I guess you could say like any modern-day conflict.
02:10:24.000The United States government is not is not I guess I would say the United States government as I as I said earlier
02:10:33.000Is is not the reason why these countries are reacting the way they are and why these Islamists are carrying out attacks against innocent Jews and innocent Americans We need to if we're going to truly understand how our response needs to be to eradicating global Islamic terrorism worldwide We need to start encouraging our politicians and people in the media to have an honest and open conversation about Islam because you cannot
02:11:18.000I will say that I'm here to stand against all of the anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist propaganda that seeks to blame Israel and label them as an oppressor and to blame Israel as an apartheid state.
02:11:30.000And I'm here to really just make a plea to the world, right?
02:11:35.000To preserve the livelihood, to preserve the life of the Jewish people.
02:11:39.000There are only 15 million Jews left on this planet.
02:11:42.000Who, in my opinion, are facing an existential threat of eradication and a possible second Holocaust if we do not get this Jew hatred and normalization for Islamic terrorism under control.
02:11:54.000And I know that I've been deemed an Islamophobe for saying things like that.
02:11:57.000I know people think that I hate Muslims.
02:11:59.000I do not hate Muslim people, but I am explicitly and
02:12:05.000Wholeheartedly anti-Islam because I am a human rights activist and I oppose the barbarism and the subjugation of people simply because they will not submit convert you know to to the ideology of Islam and I want to also express my condolences to Just you know all the all the people around the world right now who are suffering in silence all of the Jewish students on universities that are scared to go to
02:12:30.000To go to their classes on a daily basis because they're being threatened with being shot on their college campuses People that are being beaten up in the streets of America simply because they're Jewish We do have a Jew hatred problem in this country it has been normalized by the Democrat Party and as President Donald Trump has said the Democrat Party is the party of Israel haters and Jew haters and We we need to call it out.
02:12:52.000We need to call it out, and I'm not going to stop calling it out
02:14:47.000Do my hair, I color it, you know, I put red hair dye in it, I'm always using the straightener and the blow dryer and so that does damage to your hair and I really do feel like my hair is getting healthier ever since I started taking it because it's a natural, it's a natural supplement essentially.
02:15:02.000And it's a drink, it's only 10 calories per serving and so I feel better and I really do feel healthier overall, not just saying that.
02:15:10.000In fact, I believe in the product so much that I drink it live on my set, right?
02:15:54.000And these lights in the studio are just so hot on your skin, and you know, it's, uh, they kind of heat up as well, so it feels really refreshing to, uh, be able to drink this drink.
02:16:43.000You definitely want to take advantage of that, not just for yourself and your own personal health, but also for your family.
02:16:48.000What better gift can you give somebody this holiday season than an investment in their own personal health?
02:16:54.000You know, we all have items that we don't necessarily need, and sometimes I feel like a bit of a hoarder, you know, and I probably have too many clothes or too many things that I don't really need.
02:17:04.000Um, but you always are going to need good nutrition.
02:17:08.000You're always going to, uh, need good supplementation in your life because, you know, what good are material items if you don't even have your health, right?
02:17:17.000And so this Black Friday, if you're going to buy anything for yourself, uh, or your family, uh, be sure that you don't miss this massive sale, uh, and you're going to want to get up to 30% off your order.