Louder with Crowder - #127 EPIC "RAPE CULTURE" DEBATE! Pogo and Michael Ian Black | Louder With Crowder

00:00:00.000 What would you do if I sang out of tune?

00:00:05.000 Would you stand up and walk out on me?

00:00:10.000 Let me over your ears and I'll sing you a song I will try not to sing out of key We're

00:00:45.000 We'll be right back.

00:01:15.000 We'll be right back.

00:01:23.000 I am formally trained in the art of kata.

00:01:27.000 And really what it is, is when there are no actual attackers, you just go...

00:01:30.000 That's the sound of the weekend, for those of you who are not Mug Club members. 0.94

00:01:35.000 And why would you want to be after that introduction? 0.53

00:01:38.000 Producing with me in video studio, as always, is Jared, who is not gay. 0.98

00:01:41.000 Follow him on Twitter at NotGayJared, me at S. Crowder.

00:01:45.000 I fulfill my legal obligations, draw your own conclusions.

00:01:47.000 We good? 0.79

00:01:48.000 Well, I'll shut up now. 1.00

00:01:49.000 A Jew! 0.99

00:01:49.000 We have a Jew in the studio. 0.99

00:01:50.000 Our AP, Scott, and you'll see why that matters.

00:01:54.000 Be very nice to me.

00:01:55.000 He actually has Berg in the name.

00:01:57.000 Be very nice to me.

00:01:58.000 How hard is it to, anytime you actually run into, like, an anti-Semite, and you can sense it?

00:02:04.000 And they ask you your last name.

00:02:06.000 Do you change it?

00:02:07.000 Here's the thing.

00:02:08.000 I've lived in the suburbs of New York, Los Angeles, a very liberal town in Boulder, Colorado.

00:02:14.000 I have not run into many anti-Semites.

00:02:17.000 It just hasn't really happened at all.

00:02:19.000 You know what's more interesting?

00:02:20.000 The fact that we can't see Scott in this shot well at all.

00:02:23.000 Nothing like perpetuating the original stereotype.

00:02:26.000 Because we're not tall.

00:02:30.000 The reason this matters is when I was on CNN today, on their app anyway, front page, I should say it's opinion, but this is CNN. It's supposed to be a news network.

00:02:38.000 They have this article.

00:02:39.000 Clearly the Trump administration has a problem with the Jews.

00:02:46.000 CNN, you're not even trying anymore. 0.99

00:02:48.000 It's like after the BuzzFeed Russian hooker debacle. 0.61

00:02:51.000 They're just like, you know what?

00:02:52.000 He hates the juice.

00:02:53.000 Let's just see what sticks.

00:02:54.000 Let's just see what sticks.

00:02:56.000 And this comes after his visit to the Anne Frank Museum, and actually said some very nice things.

00:03:01.000 I mean, you see this, what was it, the African American Museum?

00:03:05.000 His speeches were actually pretty nice, pretty uniting, and this is why we can't have nice things.

00:03:11.000 So, I don't even know where to start on this article.

00:03:14.000 The guy goes on to write, Scott highlighted this, he goes on to say, millions of Jewish kids go to school in fear every day.

00:03:20.000 I think talking about Americans, I don't know, he's not really talking about Israel.

00:03:25.000 He also says that basically the crux of it is Donald Trump hasn't been very nice to Jews all this time.

00:03:31.000 This is the article.

00:03:32.000 It is so baseless.

00:03:33.000 Go to CNN.com, read it.

00:03:34.000 Clearly Trump doesn't care about the Jews.

00:03:35.000 As a matter of fact, when asked for comment, the original author had this to say.

00:03:39.000 Christ!

00:03:40.000 You are everything that's gone wrong in this world. 1.00

00:03:43.000 You are self-consumed, no talent, mediocre piece of s**t, and I've earned my right to say it. 1.00

00:03:50.000 Okay? 1.00

00:03:51.000 I had thought.

00:03:54.000 How does he get his own column?

00:03:55.000 Oh, no.

00:03:56.000 What's the screening process for this at CNN now?

00:04:01.000 It's low, though.

00:04:02.000 It's a low bar.

00:04:03.000 Before we get into it, Scott, you got so passionate that you put on 25 unnecessary sources in the show map.

00:04:12.000 I can understand when people say, okay, Donald Trump, maybe there's an authoritarian bent.

00:04:16.000 Maybe he has a problem with the press.

00:04:17.000 We go, okay, I can see a problem there.

00:04:19.000 This one, to me, as a Gentile, with Donald Trump, certainly compared to Barack Obama...

00:04:24.000 Whether you agree with the Israel situation or not, or the UN, let's get that off the table.

00:04:28.000 But to say Donald Trump is more anti-Israel seems so entirely baseless.

00:04:34.000 No, it is baseless.

00:04:35.000 And this gentleman, this French socialist, I can only assume he's a socialist.

00:04:40.000 That's not what he said. 0.91

00:04:41.000 He just said he doesn't like Jews.

00:04:43.000 That's what the article was about. 0.97

00:04:45.000 He just doesn't like Jews.

00:04:46.000 If you look at his policy towards Israel, he's obviously more pro-Israel than Barack Obama is.

00:04:50.000 Well, yeah, we have that actually.

00:04:51.000 Barack Obama, before he left the presidency, he tried to send, tried to Western Union $222 million to Palestine.

00:05:00.000 By the way, Palestine is still under control of Hamas, who does have the destruction of any and all Jews in their charter.

00:05:05.000 And he tried to do this unilaterally.

00:05:07.000 Donald Trump froze it when he came in.

00:05:08.000 It was one of the first things that he did.

00:05:10.000 Again, let's take away how you feel about Israel and the American government or the UN. Let's just address the premise that Donald Trump hates Jews and really look at his actions compared to the previous administration.

00:05:25.000 Do we have the John Kerry speech?

00:05:26.000 We do.

00:05:27.000 So John Kerry gave the speech on the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

00:05:30.000 So let's act as though Donald Trump were saying this.

00:05:34.000 It's going to be just that much harder to separate.

00:05:38.000 That much harder to imagine transferring sovereignty.

00:05:41.000 And that is exactly the outcome that some are purposefully accelerating.

00:05:47.000 Let's be clear.

00:05:49.000 Settlement expansion has nothing to do with Israel's security.

00:05:56.000 Incorrect.

00:05:56.000 Scott, does settlement expansion have anything to do with Israel's security?

00:05:59.000 Of course it does.

00:06:00.000 Is that something to do with rockets?

00:06:01.000 It has to do with...

00:06:03.000 Something to do with tunnel bombs?

00:06:04.000 It has to do with paying terrorist bombers, paying their families after the attack has happened.

00:06:09.000 Yeah.

00:06:10.000 What else do you need?

00:06:12.000 By the way, depending on how well they pay, do any Jews get in on that action? 0.73

00:06:16.000 No, they don't.

00:06:17.000 They do not.

00:06:19.000 I would know.

00:06:22.000 That's something that's posted on Craigslist.

00:06:28.000 Here's another interview with Obama.

00:06:29.000 Again, we're just comparing for CNN to put this out as news.

00:06:33.000 CNN, the most trusted name in news. 0.93

00:06:35.000 Donald Trump is anti-Jew. 0.99

00:06:36.000 He's an anti-Semite. 0.98

00:06:38.000 Let's compare it with a direct interview from Barack Obama not long ago.

00:06:42.000 Can you understand the sense of betrayal?

00:06:45.000 No.

00:06:45.000 I think, I'll be honest with you, that that kind of hyperbole, those kinds of statements, don't have basis in fact.

00:06:55.000 They may work well with respect to deflecting attention from the problem of settlements.

00:07:02.000 They may play well with Bibi's political base, as well as the Republican base here in the United States.

00:07:12.000 They don't match up with the facts.

00:07:15.000 Because Barack Obama is the gatekeeper for the facts.

00:07:18.000 Also CNN and BuzzFeed, their colleagues at BuzzFeed.

00:07:21.000 Don't you love how dismissive he is?

00:07:22.000 It may play with the Republican base and BB's voting base.

00:07:26.000 But no more people.

00:07:27.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:07:28.000 Not the people who aren't being blown up in record numbers.

00:07:32.000 It's just, you know, let's talk about actions.

00:07:34.000 This guy in the article, and Scott was talking about this earlier today, you know, Donald Trump.

00:07:37.000 So right away, Israel actually, they were really upset that Barack Obama did not veto the condemnation across the board of Israel from the UN. The UN might as well be called the We Hate the United States and Israel organization.

00:07:50.000 Maybe that's why we tend to be buddies.

00:07:52.000 They hate us both.

00:07:53.000 And they partner up with countries that are literally run by terrorist organizations.

00:07:57.000 I mean, imagine if both Canada and Mexico had it in their country's charter, the destruction of any and all Americans. 0.93

00:08:04.000 Let's try and put that into some context.

00:08:06.000 I know we're going to get some people who hate Jews in the comment section and say that we're paid by...

00:08:09.000 And if France lectured us about wanting to protect our borders from said violence.

00:08:13.000 Or if France lectured us about anything.

00:08:16.000 Trump, right away, after the UN vote, came in, warned them.

00:08:21.000 This is what he did.

00:08:21.000 He came and he warned them, went into bat for Israel.

00:08:24.000 Sorry for the alt-right people who don't like the Jews.

00:08:27.000 Donald Trump is possibly the greatest friend to Israel of any modern president in history.

00:08:32.000 Certainly if you look at his first actions.

00:08:33.000 Not to mention his daughter married a Jew and converted.

00:08:37.000 By the way, that's something that, you know, I can understand marrying a Jew, but converting, that's a lot of baggage.

00:08:45.000 I mean, it's not like it's fun.

00:08:45.000 That's a new dedication.

00:08:47.000 Automatically makes you more annoying.

00:08:49.000 It does.

00:08:49.000 Does it?

00:08:50.000 It automatically, once you convert, you are more annoying immediately.

00:08:53.000 Well, how so?

00:08:54.000 Is it just for other Jewish people? 0.99

00:08:55.000 Because we're Jewish.

00:08:57.000 We're Jewish.

00:08:59.000 I didn't expect him to go so full poorly.

00:09:01.000 You've got to ease into it.

00:09:03.000 People are going to think that we put this in his contract, otherwise he would be fired.

00:09:07.000 Let's be honest, he controls the contract.

00:09:09.000 Let's be honest.

00:09:12.000 It really is!

00:09:13.000 And the banks!

00:09:14.000 I don't know what happened.

00:09:16.000 He had seized my assets.

00:09:19.000 And I'm coming for this show next.

00:09:23.000 He's coming for the whole CRTV network.

00:09:25.000 And YouTube.

00:09:26.000 He has a contact.

00:09:28.000 He knows the guy.

00:09:30.000 By the way, for final comment on this, let's go back to the original author.

00:09:33.000 He had this to say. 0.99

00:09:34.000 Who the f*** are you? 1.00

00:09:37.000 You nothing! 1.00

00:09:39.000 You nothing! 0.99

00:09:42.000 You are nothing. 0.90

00:09:43.000 And you will never be anything.

00:09:46.000 Never!

00:09:48.000 How dare you! 0.99

00:09:50.000 How dare you! 0.99

00:09:52.000 You mystical, mediocre nothing! 0.98

00:09:55.000 I will say not a great ambassador for the Jewish people. 0.97

00:09:59.000 I don't know how he's so sweet.

00:10:00.000 He looks like Andre the Giant if he were a midget. 1.00

00:10:03.000 Yeah.

00:10:03.000 That's what's so bizarre.

00:10:04.000 Andre the Giant's scrotum, perhaps. 0.91

00:10:06.000 Well, now we know why he's relegated to the online section of CNN, and we don't see him appear on panels. 0.96

00:10:10.000 No.

00:10:11.000 This article was up.

00:10:12.000 Oh, by the way, I should have said, we didn't introduce our guests.

00:10:15.000 Oh, my gosh.

00:10:16.000 Michael Ian Black today, I should have said Michael Ian Black, who doesn't like me very much, thinks that I'm wrong about everything rape culture.

00:10:23.000 I apologize, Zero.

00:10:24.000 I don't think there's rape culture in the United States. 1.00

00:10:25.000 And of course, we have Pogo.

00:10:27.000 Pogo.

00:10:27.000 Huge guests.

00:10:28.000 People are stoked.

00:10:28.000 Pogo.

00:10:29.000 They've been waiting for this forever.

00:10:31.000 As a matter of fact, that's why we're just going to do this one more topic and get to the guests, because I think they're going to be great guest segments.

00:10:36.000 This was up as an article today.

00:10:38.000 The Sports Illustrated Model.

00:10:39.000 I know we've talked about this before.

00:10:41.000 Hunter McGrady.

00:10:44.000 Now, I read this, and I know, why are you talking about fat chicks?

00:10:47.000 Here's why.

00:10:48.000 This is why this is important.

00:10:49.000 Because if you actually read this article, and it's this virtue signaling, hey, everyone is proud.

00:10:54.000 This is my God-given body.

00:10:55.000 I'm proud.

00:10:55.000 It actually sends a horrible message to teenage girls.

00:10:59.000 Just like feminism. 1.00

00:11:00.000 Feminism sent a horrible message to young women with the sexual liberation, with the idea that you don't need a man, with the idea of rape culture, and they basically completely stripped women of their natural God-given power. 1.00

00:11:12.000 I know women who feel empty inside because they can't figure out what career they're supposed to have because feminism tells them they have to have a career. 1.00

00:11:18.000 This person just wants to be a mom.

00:11:20.000 And that's not okay today.

00:11:22.000 I know.

00:11:23.000 She feels empty because of the barren womb. 1.00

00:11:25.000 That's also something that makes it tough.

00:11:27.000 It's true.

00:11:29.000 Right off the bat, it went to a weird dark place.

00:11:32.000 Weird.

00:11:32.000 I don't know how much darker you can get with Michael Ian Black.

00:11:35.000 I'm sure he'll probably say something anti-Semitic.

00:11:37.000 So she sits here and she talks in this article.

00:11:39.000 She's talking about her God-given body.

00:11:40.000 And she talks about how when she was a teenager, and here are the pictures.

00:11:43.000 When she was a teenager, she starved herself and she was unhealthy.

00:11:46.000 And you see these pictures.

00:11:47.000 It does look like maybe she's a little bit too thin. 0.99

00:11:50.000 And then she talks about how now her God-given body is her, she claims a size 18, which usually means you're probably like a size 22. 0.64

00:11:57.000 And it doesn't change.

00:11:58.000 The rule doesn't change with plus-size models.

00:12:00.000 Here's the thing with that.

00:12:01.000 There is a middle ground.

00:12:04.000 There is a middle ground here.

00:12:05.000 She could eat healthy and exercise and probably would be slightly smaller. 0.86

00:12:09.000 Now, I'm not saying that she's completely unattractive, but there is a middle ground.

00:12:13.000 You don't have to be anorexic, skinny, and unhealthy, or overweight and unhealthy.

00:12:19.000 And by the way, by a doctor's measurement, this would be an unhealthy weight for her at her size. 0.53

00:12:24.000 A size 18, a size 20, a size 22.

00:12:26.000 And she even talks about, in this article, she talks about, when I was a teenager, I constantly tried to shave more off my hips.

00:12:33.000 But here's the thing.

00:12:35.000 That's your problem.

00:12:36.000 No men want you to shave more off your hips. 1.00

00:12:39.000 Even men who like thin women are like, I like thin women, I don't want any hips! 1.00

00:12:44.000 Nothing! 0.99

00:12:45.000 I don't even like boobs and butts. 0.98

00:12:47.000 Let's just put that out there to confuse it. 0.99

00:12:48.000 No!

00:12:49.000 No men want you to not have hips. 1.00

00:12:51.000 And here's the issue that I have with this.

00:12:52.000 Not only is it doing a great disservice to young women, but it is incredibly vilifying of young men.

00:12:57.000 Because what you're doing is you're creating a straw man.

00:12:59.000 This ideal standard of beauty that no men... 0.99

00:13:04.000 Men don't have an ideal, one perfect standard of beauty.

00:13:07.000 That's what's wonderful.

00:13:08.000 We need to be telling young girls, listen, if you're within the parameters of health, men will like you, whether you're tall, whether you're short, you're thinner, you're slightly chubbier, as long as you are relatively healthy and put yourself together well throughout history.

00:13:20.000 Men have found a majority of women sexually attractive.

00:13:23.000 I mean, you can look at them.

00:13:23.000 You have Marilyn Monroe was a model slightly bigger.

00:13:26.000 Then you have Audrey Hepburn, obviously, who goes the other direction. 0.96

00:13:29.000 When I was a kid, Julie Newmar was someone I had a big crush on watching Batman. 0.69

00:13:33.000 She's a more average mid-sized girl.

00:13:36.000 If you look at the cover of men's magazines, you see people of all different sizes.

00:13:39.000 It doesn't matter.

00:13:40.000 As a matter of fact, if you want to look for someone to blame, look for when women allowed themselves to be co-opted by homosexual fashion designers who create women's magazines. 0.98

00:13:50.000 The only place you see this crazy, unrealistic standard of beauty is on Mary Claire and Elle and wherever these gay men want to make women look like little boys. 1.00

00:13:58.000 No straight men expect that. 0.96

00:14:00.000 Even today, let's look at this objectively.

00:14:03.000 The most beautiful woman in the world, whenever you look at people's list, you have men who love Taylor Swift?

00:14:08.000 Love her.

00:14:08.000 They find her gorgeous.

00:14:09.000 She's on the thin, tall side. 0.89

00:14:10.000 And some men love Beyonce.

00:14:13.000 Maybe it's yours.

00:14:13.000 That's not my thing.

00:14:16.000 I noticed your selection of photographs there.

00:14:19.000 We will get letters regarding the Queen Bee. 0.99

00:14:21.000 By the way, if you send me a letter and say Queen Bee, I immediately know that you're an angry gay. 1.00

00:14:26.000 You just purge your email and start a new one. 1.00

00:14:29.000 Get it out.

00:14:29.000 So this tells little girls you either have to have an eating disorder...

00:14:33.000 Or you have to be overweight.

00:14:34.000 And you should be proud of being overweight.

00:14:36.000 And they take something that can be so unifying, this idea of beautiful women in all different shapes and sizes, which, by the way, is pretty universal for men.

00:14:45.000 And they try to guilt men based on an expectation men don't have.

00:14:50.000 And then tell women that they'll be happier with a life that will make them definitively less healthy and unhappy. 0.98

00:14:57.000 And something else, a big irony here, that I think a lot of people miss.

00:15:01.000 The whole fat pride movement is based on inner beauty.

00:15:04.000 It's about the inner beauty.

00:15:05.000 Well, if you read this article, if this woman weren't pretty and a plus-size model, you wouldn't be talking about inner beauty. 1.00

00:15:11.000 Let's look at what she wrote.

00:15:13.000 Her biggest dream was to be the Sports Illustrated swimsuit model cover.

00:15:17.000 That's just as shallow and vain as any model out there. 1.00

00:15:21.000 You just happen to be overweight. 0.72

00:15:23.000 She wasn't dreaming of building orphanages.

00:15:26.000 She wasn't dreaming of going out there and curing diseases.

00:15:29.000 She wasn't dreaming of raising a great family.

00:15:31.000 Her dream was to be ogled in a swimsuit. 0.99

00:15:35.000 So, that's fine if that's your dream.

00:15:36.000 I get it.

00:15:37.000 Lots of thin people have those dreams too.

00:15:39.000 But if you're going to condemn thin people as shallow and vain and say, look at me, it's about inner beauty.

00:15:44.000 Oh, really?

00:15:44.000 Well, what are you about?

00:15:45.000 Posing naked?

00:15:48.000 So you're just the same thing.

00:15:49.000 You're doing the exact same thing.

00:15:51.000 We're supposed to act as though these plus-size models somehow are pushing the boundaries as though they're not vain. 0.57

00:15:55.000 They're just as vain.

00:15:57.000 They just didn't do the push-ups. 1.00

00:15:59.000 And the problem here is, it's again, you're turning something, men, their attraction, to women of all different shapes and sizes, you're creating outrage at something that couldn't be less outrageous.

00:16:14.000 Hey, Steven.

00:16:14.000 Steven, real quick.

00:16:15.000 Come over here.

00:16:16.000 Do you think she's hot? 1.00

00:16:18.000 Yeah.

00:16:20.000 What do you think about her?

00:16:22.000 Yeah.

00:16:24.000 What do you think about that?

00:16:26.000 I guess, but probably prefer the other ones.

00:16:32.000 Patriarchy! 0.99

00:16:33.000 All right, all right.

00:16:40.000 The double-secret patriarchy meeting is now in session.

00:16:43.000 First item of business. 0.81

00:16:45.000 It is very important that we make sure women don't catch on to the fact that marriage is nothing more than glorified rape. 0.52

00:16:52.000 So please keep that under your hats, shall you?

00:16:54.000 Yeah, yeah, of course.

00:16:55.000 Alright, on to item number two.

00:16:58.000 We need unified standards on what will be determined as the most recent oppressive standards of beauty that we don't even like.

00:17:05.000 Anybody have suggestions?

00:17:06.000 Yeah, me.

00:17:07.000 Yes, Bradley.

00:17:08.000 Yeah, I was just thinking maybe we could tell women or the people who do the magazines that we like bigger breasts and nice bodies. 0.99

00:17:20.000 Even though we don't like any of those things.

00:17:23.000 Brilliant, Bradley.

00:17:24.000 That will really screw with their heads.

00:17:26.000 Anyone else?

00:17:27.000 Yeah, over here.

00:17:27.000 Yes, Phil Cool.

00:17:29.000 Yeah, I was thinking, like, maybe we tell people that we like women more, you know, who are more nurturing and good around the house.

00:17:39.000 Ha! 0.89

00:17:40.000 Even though clearly men are not attracted to any of those qualities in the opposite sex. 0.80

00:17:44.000 Good thinking, Phil.

00:17:45.000 We'll be sure to maintain our death grip on oppression.

00:17:48.000 Okay, one more.

00:17:50.000 Yes, you in the back there, Perry.

00:17:51.000 How about we put out the notion that we like our women? 0.99

00:17:56.000 To look like women. 1.00

00:17:58.000 Oh, that's glorious.

00:18:00.000 Even though men clearly like women who look like androgynous little boys, we'll tell them that we prefer them looking feminine. 0.94

00:18:06.000 Oh, they'll be sure to get their goat and grind their gears. 1.00

00:18:10.000 Well, I think we have a lot to work with this week.

00:18:13.000 Refreshments are in the back, but keep it to a two-per-person maximum.

00:18:17.000 Double-secret patriarchy meeting is adjourned.

00:18:20.000 See you next Tuesday.

00:18:21.000 I don't have a bomb shelter. 0.97

00:18:34.000 I don't have some kind of a road warrior truck for when the crap hits the fan. 0.97

00:18:38.000 And I'm not a prepper. 0.93

00:18:39.000 But I have lived through some natural disasters in my lifetime.

00:18:42.000 The ice storm in Montreal where we actually knew people who died, couldn't get food or water.

00:18:47.000 My brother with earthquakes in Los Angeles.

00:18:49.000 It pays to be prepared.

00:18:51.000 You don't have to be some crazy person living out in the plains to do so.

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00:20:00.000 Very nice.

00:20:01.000 Pogo, who's coming up after our next guest.

00:20:03.000 Hopefully it's all a good time.

00:20:05.000 We never know.

00:20:05.000 Good times.

00:20:06.000 Next guest, I've actually followed him for a while.

00:20:08.000 Followed his comedy over there.

00:20:10.000 Stella is a comedy troupe that he's taking part in.

00:20:11.000 My brother's a huge fan.

00:20:12.000 He had some choice words for me.

00:20:14.000 Some choice words went back and forth.

00:20:16.000 But now he is on the program.

00:20:18.000 At Michael Ian Black.

00:20:20.000 Mr.

00:20:20.000 Black, thank you for being here, sir.

00:20:21.000 My pleasure.

00:20:32.000 Thanks for having me.

00:20:46.000 And then there were a few tweets after that when I was encouraging you to come on the show.

00:20:49.000 So let's just lead with that, Michael. 0.99

00:20:52.000 Holy shit, what? 0.99

00:20:53.000 I'm always open to new ideas. 1.00

00:20:56.000 Sure, holy shit, that video is appalling. 0.99

00:20:59.000 Okay, how so? 0.99

00:21:01.000 In a number of ways.

00:21:02.000 The first is that it's trivializing, demeaning, and making a cartoon of somebody's experience with what they describe as a sexual assault.

00:21:15.000 By doing that, you're, I think, guilty of the thing that a lot of These women say, which is you're making them feel like they're not going to be believed and that they're going to have a hard time coming forward if they're going to be on the receiving end of this kind of action.

00:21:35.000 Okay.

00:21:36.000 Can I respond to that?

00:21:37.000 Of course.

00:21:38.000 Okay.

00:21:38.000 A couple of things.

00:21:39.000 Did you watch the little video?

00:21:41.000 Yes.

00:21:41.000 Okay, because one of the very first things I talk about is the grave concern with people like Lena Dunham falsely attributing rape, or falsely accusing rape, rather, is the people who come forward who have actually been raped.

00:21:52.000 And the people who falsely cite statistics like the 1 in 3 or 1 in 4, which is verifiably untrue, that that makes it actually...

00:21:59.000 That's not true.

00:21:59.000 What you're saying is untrue.

00:22:00.000 No, what I'm saying is completely true.

00:22:01.000 What you're saying is untrue.

00:22:02.000 The CDC study that you referenced...

00:22:04.000 I have the statistics.

00:22:04.000 No, no, no.

00:22:05.000 The Bureau for Justice.

00:22:10.000 Right now, nearly one in five, 18.3% of women, and one in 71 men, 1.4% reported experiencing rape at some time in their lives.

00:22:20.000 Okay, there you go.

00:22:21.000 So let me clarify that.

00:22:23.000 See, that's the CDC report experiencing rape, right?

00:22:26.000 Now, when we frame in what rape is, which is sexual assault, Unwanted, unwarranted, without consent, the Bureau for Justice says that it's 6.1 per 1,000.

00:22:37.000 So that would be.003.

00:22:38.000 What is the Bureau of Justice?

00:22:40.000 The United States Bureau of Justice.

00:22:41.000 It's a federal department of justice.

00:22:43.000 We're talking about the United States statistics here regarding rape.

00:22:45.000 And again, let me respond really quickly.

00:22:50.000 You're saying the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control, is wrong, and you're correct.

00:22:56.000 No.

00:22:56.000 And how are you basing that?

00:22:57.000 No, I'm not.

00:22:57.000 And let me tell you why I'm saying my statistic is correct, because I'm fully aware of the statistics that you cite, that Lena Dunham, them and their ilk cite, and I'm aware of the flaws in that statistic.

00:23:06.000 Now, that includes any P and V that is regretful. 0.74

00:23:09.000 Are you aware this is taught on campus?

00:23:11.000 Do you know what that means?

00:23:11.000 No, it says rape.

00:23:12.000 That's what it says. 0.99

00:23:13.000 Again, rape is defined as any P and V, any penis in vagina which is regretful. 1.00

00:23:17.000 As a matter of fact, let's look at the California rape statute, which would be included.

00:23:20.000 The California rape statute...

00:23:23.000 That requires consent continually throughout the entire act of sexual intercourse, meaning that someone could immediately become guilty of rape within one thrust without even knowing it.

00:23:32.000 That's the California rape statute. 1.00

00:23:34.000 That's not correct.

00:23:35.000 It is correct.

00:23:35.000 I have it right in front of me.

00:23:36.000 Well, what consent implies and says explicitly is, and you said this in your video, that if somebody says no at any point, that person has to stop.

00:23:45.000 That's what you said.

00:23:46.000 Right.

00:23:46.000 No, but that's not what California means.

00:23:48.000 No, that's not what California means.

00:23:50.000 Therefore, what you're saying is a lie.

00:23:51.000 Hold on a second, hold on a second.

00:23:51.000 You just made a bunch of leaps.

00:23:52.000 Okay, I'd rather instead of making leaps and assumptions, leaps and assumptions...

00:23:56.000 Consent has to occur, and that when somebody says no at any time during the act, I'm quoting you now, you said that is rape, and that's what California says.

00:24:05.000 Okay, you made a bunch of assumptions.

00:24:06.000 Are you aware of the California statute that is called affirmative consent?

00:24:11.000 No, I'm not.

00:24:12.000 Okay.

00:24:12.000 Well, it's what I just told you about.

00:24:13.000 So let's assume for a second.

00:24:14.000 Hold on a second.

00:24:15.000 I didn't say that you were wrong.

00:24:17.000 I didn't say that what you said was untrue.

00:24:19.000 I'm saying you're wrong.

00:24:20.000 Yeah, I didn't say what you said.

00:24:21.000 Sorry.

00:24:21.000 You are wrong.

00:24:22.000 What you said was not necessarily untrue.

00:24:24.000 I'm not saying that you were being dishonest.

00:24:25.000 You are incorrect.

00:24:26.000 So, let me present that.

00:24:28.000 Before we go back and forth again on that and different definitions, again, there's a CDC definition, there's a Bureau of Justice definition, which frames in rape as actual sexual assault, unwanted sexual intercourse.

00:24:39.000 Not drunken intercourse, not intercourse where a girl afterwards says that she regretted it.

00:24:44.000 It's actual rape. 1.00

00:24:45.000 We need to make that clear because Lena Dunham was talking about sex that she regretted. 1.00

00:24:49.000 And in that video, I talked about lumping.

00:24:50.000 This is the whole point, Michael.

00:24:52.000 This is important.

00:24:52.000 The whole point of that video.

00:24:54.000 And by the way, the first thing I say is rape is never acceptable.

00:24:56.000 Okay?

00:24:57.000 You absolutely said that.

00:24:58.000 Several times.

00:24:59.000 And it demeans and it belittles the horrendous act of rape by simply throwing it out as an accusation and lumping in all regretful sex as rape.

00:25:07.000 She didn't throw it out as an accusation.

00:25:09.000 In fact, she went to great pains to say that she had very mixed emotions about it.

00:25:13.000 She had to process it.

00:25:14.000 It was psychologically difficult for her.

00:25:16.000 She went to great pains to say that this experience required her to undergo a lot of thought, examination, self-examination, and self-procrimination.

00:25:25.000 She didn't willy-nilly say that this was rape. 0.99

00:25:28.000 I would consider a false accusation willy-nilly.

00:25:32.000 What?

00:25:32.000 I would consider a false accusation verifiably false willy-nilly.

00:25:36.000 It is not verifiably false.

00:25:37.000 There's nothing that she said that was verifiably false.

00:25:40.000 I've spoken with him.

00:25:41.000 I've spoken with him.

00:25:42.000 She never pressed charges and she dropped the issue completely and said that she misspoke.

00:25:46.000 She said that she misspoke and she said that she blew it up.

00:25:48.000 She wishes she never said it.

00:25:49.000 The man claims it never happened.

00:25:51.000 Can you quote that to me?

00:25:52.000 Hey, I can't quote that to you right now, but I can...

00:25:55.000 Speaking out was never about exposing the man who assaulted me.

00:25:58.000 Rather, it was about exposing my shame, meaning hers, letting it dry out in the sun.

00:26:02.000 I did not wish to be contacted by him or to open a criminal investigation.

00:26:07.000 That's her words.

00:26:08.000 Yeah, but why not?

00:26:09.000 Weren't you saying that she regretted it and she wished she had never said it?

00:26:12.000 Yeah, she talked about it later on, saying that it was blown out of proportion.

00:26:14.000 I don't have Lena Dunham's exact quote right in front of me.

00:26:17.000 You have to have it.

00:26:17.000 If you're going to make accusations, you have to have it.

00:26:18.000 Well, what you just said right there, why would she not?

00:26:20.000 Let's talk about it.

00:26:21.000 Hold on, Michael.

00:26:22.000 Michael, Michael, hold on.

00:26:23.000 You're going off the deep end, brother.

00:26:24.000 You're going off the deep end, brother.

00:26:26.000 Hold on a second.

00:26:26.000 I want to let you finish.

00:26:28.000 Let me finish.

00:26:29.000 Okay, when I speak, and I'll let you finish.

00:26:30.000 So we can go back and forth.

00:26:32.000 Right there, CDC, Bureau of Justice, can we agree that we need to define rape before we start talking about a rape culture?

00:26:38.000 We didn't talk about a rape culture.

00:26:40.000 That video was entirely about rape culture. 1.00

00:26:42.000 It was called rape culture. 1.00

00:26:43.000 The video was about rape culture and you tweeted me, holy shit, right? 1.00

00:26:47.000 The video was about rape culture. 0.99

00:26:48.000 You have a problem with my video which was addressing rape culture.

00:26:51.000 Do you not?

00:26:51.000 Okay.

00:26:52.000 So let's clarify.

00:26:53.000 I'm not pulling a bait and switch.

00:26:55.000 I'm allowing you the floor when you decided to pull out a random video and launch some kind of a Twitter tirade.

00:27:02.000 It was about rape culture. 1.00

00:27:03.000 It was about rape culture. 1.00

00:27:04.000 I said, holy shit, and I'm explaining why. 0.99

00:27:06.000 And then repeatedly, when asked to come on the show, said, no, I needed to talk with a woman who was a victim of sexual assault. 0.99

00:27:11.000 Yes.

00:27:11.000 How is that a tirade, Stephen?

00:27:13.000 Because it was repeatedly.

00:27:15.000 Multiple tweets.

00:27:15.000 You have several million followers.

00:27:18.000 Several million followers.

00:27:20.000 No, you didn't.

00:27:21.000 No, you didn't.

00:27:22.000 You tried to hide behind people who didn't exist, who you didn't put forward beforehand.

00:27:25.000 Stephen, what are you talking about?

00:27:26.000 Okay, so rape culture is what we're talking about. 1.00

00:27:29.000 You're saying the people I talk to don't exist?

00:27:30.000 Yeah, you didn't present a victim of sexual assault to debate.

00:27:33.000 You're a fact person.

00:27:34.000 How are you determining that?

00:27:36.000 Who did you suggest for me to debate, if not yourself?

00:27:39.000 I said a victim of sexual abuse.

00:27:40.000 Yeah.

00:27:41.000 Well, first off, you said any woman.

00:27:44.000 No, I did not say any woman.

00:27:46.000 I said a victim of sexual abuse.

00:27:47.000 You can quote me to myself.

00:27:48.000 You said any woman on the subject as well.

00:27:49.000 Hold on, I believe I have some of the tweets here.

00:27:51.000 You did say of sexual abuse, and you said that any woman would be more qualified on the subject.

00:27:54.000 Yes, any woman would be more qualified than me to talk about this. 0.97

00:27:57.000 In fact, probably every single adult woman I know could share with you.

00:28:00.000 Yes.

00:28:01.000 So is that not factual, what I just said then?

00:28:03.000 That is your quote?

00:28:04.000 No?

00:28:05.000 What you just said, yes, is my quote.

00:28:06.000 Yes.

00:28:07.000 So you said any victim of sexual assault or any adult woman?

00:28:10.000 Yes.

00:28:11.000 Did you provide anyone?

00:28:12.000 Because I provided two people.

00:28:14.000 Two adult women.

00:28:16.000 Right.

00:28:17.000 And I said I wasn't comfortable speaking on behalf of sexual abuse survivors because I'm not one.

00:28:22.000 But right now you just said you were willing to come on and argue.

00:28:22.000 Okay.

00:28:25.000 You weren't.

00:28:26.000 You tried to shirk it several times is my point.

00:28:28.000 I'm glad we're having this conversation.

00:28:29.000 But don't act as though anyone else drew first blood here other than yourself.

00:28:33.000 You're accusing me of shirking it, and now you're saying that I shouldn't have come on?

00:28:37.000 No, I think you should come on.

00:28:38.000 But you acted as though you wanted to come on right away.

00:28:40.000 The point is, Michael, you tried to take a parting shot, and now we're here.

00:28:43.000 This is good.

00:28:44.000 What was my parting shot, Stephen?

00:28:45.000 Your parting shot was throwing out a tweet to someone with a smaller profile than yourself, then refusing to come on until you were cornered and felt pressured.

00:28:52.000 But I didn't refuse.

00:28:52.000 I came on.

00:28:53.000 Here I am.

00:28:53.000 You repeatedly did.

00:28:54.000 You repeatedly did, and I appreciate you agreeing to.

00:28:56.000 So, rape culture is what we're talking about. 1.00

00:28:58.000 So, you also said that you think that my video was incentive, which, of course, dealt in statistics, as we're talking about right now.

00:29:04.000 What about your rape jokes, then?

00:29:07.000 Let's talk about, you said you wanted to define rape. 0.97

00:29:09.000 Hold on a second. 0.87

00:29:09.000 What about your rape? 0.87

00:29:11.000 You said it was very insensitive. 0.99

00:29:12.000 You made rape jokes throughout your entire career. 0.67

00:29:14.000 90,185 rapes in 2015. 0.82

00:29:18.000 That's 2015.

00:29:19.000 Michael, you started it off personally.

00:29:22.000 Do you think that's too many rapes? 1.00

00:29:23.000 You started off personally. 0.96

00:29:25.000 I think one rape is too many rapes. 1.00

00:29:27.000 You started off personally. 0.93

00:29:28.000 You started off personally saying that you personally make people very uncomfortable, ashamed of these incidents with your video on rape.

00:29:35.000 You talked about making light of it, making jokes about it.

00:29:38.000 Demeaning the victim, yes.

00:29:39.000 Okay, yeah, by making light of it, what about your...

00:29:41.000 Wait a minute, you said you wanted to define rape, and now you're moving away from the subject.

00:29:44.000 I do, I do.

00:29:44.000 Well, we did define rape.

00:29:45.000 We did define rape.

00:29:45.000 Let's have a definition of rape.

00:29:47.000 We did define rape.

00:29:48.000 Let's talk about the numbers of rapes, and let's talk about rape culture, which you say doesn't exist. 0.99

00:29:51.000 I'm saying there were 90,185 rapes in 2015.

00:29:55.000 This is according to the FBI. Do you think that's too many rapes? 0.95

00:29:58.000 This is the exact same thing as Christopher Titus.

00:30:00.000 Why don't you care about dead kids?

00:30:02.000 Yes or no?

00:30:02.000 Of course I do!

00:30:03.000 Okay.

00:30:04.000 How is that relevant to the fact that there is no rape culture in the United States and that you're pulling out bogus statistics?

00:30:10.000 How many broken arms are there in the United States because someone doesn't know how to open an oven?

00:30:14.000 Is that too many?

00:30:15.000 Of course it's too many. 1.00

00:30:16.000 The point is, it's a stupid non-sequitur, Michael. 1.00

00:30:19.000 It's a stupid non-sequitur. 1.00

00:30:21.000 Any rape is too many rapes. 1.00

00:30:22.000 We agree.

00:30:23.000 Nobody here is a supporter of rape.

00:30:24.000 Stop trying to frame it as though they somehow support some kinds of rape. 0.91

00:30:27.000 Michael, what about your rape jokes? 0.99

00:30:29.000 What about your rape jokes? 1.00

00:30:33.000 We can talk about my rape jokes. 0.98

00:30:36.000 So is that not the same thing?

00:30:37.000 Because you didn't do so in a way that was addressing it factually as I did.

00:30:41.000 You simply have made rape jokes that are insensitive in making life.

00:30:43.000 Does that mean you support rape?

00:30:44.000 Of course not. 0.88

00:30:45.000 Tell me what rape jokes I made. 1.00

00:30:48.000 A couple of them. 0.93

00:30:49.000 Done skiing for the day, drunk and exhausted.

00:30:51.000 Uh-huh.

00:31:05.000 That's a terrible tweet on my part, that last one.

00:31:08.000 Here's the thing, Michael.

00:31:09.000 I don't think it's offensive.

00:31:10.000 And I don't think it hurts rape victims.

00:31:13.000 But my point is, before we go into personal attacks...

00:31:15.000 I didn't personally attack you!

00:31:17.000 You make a personal argument as though I somehow don't care about victims of rape.

00:31:22.000 I just have a different opinion than you. 1.00

00:31:23.000 I said, holy shit, because your video is appalling. 1.00

00:31:26.000 I never attacked you personally. 1.00

00:31:28.000 Yeah, but you've not proven why it's appalling.

00:31:29.000 You said it makes light and it's demeaning.

00:31:31.000 If you have an example of me attacking you personally, please show me.

00:31:33.000 Sure.

00:31:33.000 Right at the outset of this, thank God people have Rewind on the internet.

00:31:37.000 I don't know if it's called Rewind.

00:31:39.000 It's called Skip 30, I think, where you said it demeans and makes light of the situation of people who are rape victims.

00:31:44.000 That is not a personal attack on you.

00:31:44.000 No, no, I'm saying you tried to set the argument personally.

00:31:48.000 You tried to set the argument personally.

00:31:51.000 As you're doing now, are there too many rapes? 0.81

00:31:54.000 Yes, of course there are.

00:31:56.000 That's trying to frame the argument as though one of us is sympathetic to rape victims and one of us isn't.

00:32:01.000 The fact is you've made far more...

00:32:03.000 No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

00:32:04.000 I'm saying you deny that there's rape culture.

00:32:07.000 Yes.

00:32:07.000 So if there is no rape culture, if rape isn't a problem in this country...

00:32:11.000 Two different things, two different things, two different things.

00:32:14.000 There's a difference between rape culture and rape being a problem. 1.00

00:32:17.000 If rape culture isn't a problem in this country, then surely there is a number at which you agree that rape is acceptable and a number at which you agree it is not.

00:32:24.000 So if the number is zero, which we both agree it is, the number is zero of acceptable rapes, that's what you said and I'm agreeing... 0.57

00:32:30.000 Then clearly there's a problem in the culture if the FBI is saying there were 90,185 reported rapes in 2015.

00:32:40.000 Yeah, incorrect.

00:32:42.000 Okay, so the FBI is incorrect and the CDC is incorrect.

00:32:46.000 No, that's not what I said.

00:32:47.000 Incorrect.

00:32:47.000 You just said incorrect!

00:32:48.000 Your statement right now, which was two or three paragraphs, was incorrect.

00:32:52.000 Now, before you got to the FBI, very clever, tying in at the end of an entire opining on your behalf, to act as though that somehow substantiates what you said.

00:33:00.000 You said there are these many rapes, and if we agree that rape is a problem, of course rape is a problem, then we agree there's a rape culture. 0.95

00:33:07.000 Don't agree there's a rape culture. 1.00

00:33:08.000 Just like I don't agree there's a murder culture.

00:33:10.000 I don't agree that there's a racism culture in the United States.

00:33:14.000 I don't agree there's a cultural problem with it.

00:33:16.000 I believe there's rape, and certainly if we want to get into a rape culture problem, we can get into societies where that is the case, as nearly every Islamic nation in the world, where rape is actually, in fact, allowed legally. 1.00

00:33:28.000 It's not allowed here.

00:33:29.000 Rape is illegal in this country, and rape is very, very rare in the United States.

00:33:32.000 And my point is this.

00:33:34.000 Okay, so the FBI, when they say 90,185, that's very, very rare?

00:33:38.000 Yes.

00:33:39.000 Okay.

00:33:40.000 And when you say it's very, very rare, and that the CDC says one in five will experience rape in their lifetime, that is also rare?

00:33:48.000 One in five is false.

00:33:49.000 Okay, so the CDC is wrong, and the FBI saying 90,000 is rare.

00:33:54.000 Well, first off, you have two numbers that contradict each other.

00:33:57.000 You have two numbers that contradict each other.

00:34:00.000 You're aware of this, right?

00:34:01.000 No, they don't.

00:34:01.000 90,000 would be one in five women?

00:34:05.000 90,000 would be one in five women? 1.00

00:34:08.000 Michael.

00:34:09.000 I'm sorry, I interrupted you.

00:34:10.000 90,000 would be one in five women, Michael? 1.00

00:34:13.000 No, of course not.

00:34:14.000 So you have two sources that contradict each other.

00:34:16.000 In 2015, the CDC says one in five over the course of their lives.

00:34:21.000 90,000 would not even be close to one in five.

00:34:25.000 Of course, you and I agree.

00:34:26.000 90,000 reported to law enforcement in 2015.

00:34:31.000 I've said it five times.

00:34:32.000 The CDC statistic refers to a lifetime over the course of their lifetime, one in five.

00:34:39.000 Yeah.

00:34:39.000 First off, the CDC is false.

00:34:42.000 And again, if we get into those statistics, considering that over 80% of rapes are not committed by serial rapists, but by people who they know.

00:34:48.000 Nobody said they were.

00:34:49.000 No, but I'm saying it wouldn't bear out in those statistics.

00:34:51.000 As far as the lifetime statistics, if you were to extrapolate the number of 90,000 regarding even their current standards of rape, which is sex with anyone they regret, Michael.

00:35:00.000 And again, those statistics are constantly rebutted from the CDC. The Bureau of Justice specifically said we need to look at these and frame them in.

00:35:07.000 Yes, it does.

00:35:07.000 Can you show me the CDC definition where it says they regret having sex as a definition of rape?

00:35:12.000 Read to me the CDC definition that you read earlier, so that way I'm not misquoting it.

00:35:16.000 You read it earlier, Michael.

00:35:18.000 Read to me the CDC definition you just read earlier, because I don't want you to say that I'm misquoting it.

00:35:23.000 I'm having sexual violence.

00:35:25.000 This is quoting from the CDC. A fax at a glance from 2012.

00:35:28.000 CDC.gov.

00:35:29.000 Violence Prevention.

00:35:30.000 PDF. SV. Data Sheet.

00:35:32.000 APDF. In a nationally represented survey of adults, and we can look at the survey, nearly 1 in 5, 18.3% of women and 1 in 71 men reported experiencing rape at some time in their lives.

00:35:47.000 Reported experiencing rape.

00:35:49.000 How was rape defined, is the point.

00:35:50.000 Reported experiencing rape.

00:35:52.000 Self-reporting experiencing rape.

00:35:54.000 If we go by crimes...

00:35:56.000 So this comes from the National Intimate Partnering Sexual Violence Survey in 2010.

00:36:00.000 Yeah.

00:36:00.000 The National Center for Injury Prevention and Control Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 2011.

00:36:05.000 That's the reference.

00:36:05.000 That's where it's coming from.

00:36:06.000 Yes.

00:36:08.000 Define experiencing rape.

00:36:10.000 I can't, but Stephen, it's the CDC. So we'd have to go back to the original survey, the National Intimate Partner in Sexual Violence Survey, which I don't have at my fingertips.

00:36:21.000 Okay, and that's fair.

00:36:22.000 Listen, I'm not trying to trick you or make you get some sources that you don't have.

00:36:25.000 Okay, well, you work with your statistics, the CDC. If you take that and put it next to the criminal statistics, even if you add it up over the lifetime, it's not even close.

00:36:34.000 It couldn't possibly add up to one in five.

00:36:37.000 Except that this is 90,185 rates reported to law enforcement in 2015.

00:36:45.000 We both know, Stephen, that very few or a minority of rapes are reported.

00:36:51.000 Okay, so this requires a lot of assumptions on your part, right?

00:36:56.000 No, it doesn't.

00:36:57.000 Yes, it does.

00:36:58.000 Yes, it does.

00:36:59.000 It requires a lot of assumptions, and I'm going to explain why and act as though you'll allow me to finish a sentence.

00:37:03.000 It requires a lot of assumptions because you're taking a criminal statistic, which in no way could at any point, if you were to take an average lifetime, add up to one in five people are raped.

00:37:11.000 And then you are comparing that with experiencing rape, which is not clearly defined.

00:37:16.000 Now, And she didn't.

00:37:31.000 She did.

00:37:33.000 She made it very clear that she had a lot of ambiguity and problems with the term at first, came to accept it eventually, and also, as I quoted to you before, took a lot of the blame herself.

00:37:47.000 And in writing about it, I think what she was saying was she was trying to encourage other people to experience it Yeah, I wouldn't use the word problematic.

00:38:12.000 I would say inaccurate.

00:38:14.000 Well, clearly you would say that.

00:38:15.000 It's an inaccurate term.

00:38:16.000 There is no rape culture in the United States. 0.99

00:38:18.000 We put rapists away when they're proven guilty.

00:38:20.000 We have a problem with rape. 1.00

00:38:21.000 The overwhelming majority of Americans are against rape.

00:38:24.000 The overwhelming majority of men do not commit rape.

00:38:26.000 One in five women are not raped.

00:38:28.000 That is incorrect.

00:38:28.000 That is factually incorrect.

00:38:30.000 0.03...

00:38:33.000 According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 0.03 and 5.

00:38:37.000 It's 6.1 per 1,000 students.

00:38:39.000 I have the number right here.

00:38:41.000 Students now.

00:38:42.000 You're not saying over the course of a lifetime.

00:38:43.000 We're talking about rape culture. 0.93

00:38:44.000 Again, this is where we're going back to.

00:38:45.000 That was the video.

00:38:46.000 The Bureau of Justice that you're saying is that quoting people over the course of a lifetime, which is what the CDC says.

00:38:51.000 Yeah, the video that we were talking about was rape culture. 0.95

00:38:55.000 No, Stephen, you just quoted the Bureau of Justice to disprove the CDC. Does it say over the course of a lifetime or does it say during the four years of college?

00:39:02.000 Here's the important point.

00:39:04.000 No, it's not the point.

00:39:05.000 You're saying that the CDC is wrong.

00:39:06.000 Yes, yes, both, both, Michael, both.

00:39:08.000 Right now I'm looking at a college, Michael, both, Michael, both, Michael.

00:39:15.000 Michael, Michael, both.

00:39:16.000 Now the reason that right now we are talking about college is because rape culture as the term, which is the reason for the video. 0.96

00:39:22.000 You chose to address the video, Michael.

00:39:24.000 You don't get to say, hey, this video was wrong where Stephen is talking about racism. 1.00

00:39:29.000 Holy shit. 0.99

00:39:30.000 And I say, well, let's talk about racism. 1.00

00:39:31.000 You say, let's talk about abortion.

00:39:32.000 We were talking about rape culture in the video.

00:39:35.000 We've been talking about rape this entire time.

00:39:37.000 I haven't brought up anything other than rape.

00:39:40.000 No, not as it relates to on campus.

00:39:42.000 That is what the video is about, Michael.

00:39:45.000 1 in 5 over the course of a lifetime.

00:39:46.000 Bureau of Justice that you just quoted does not refer to in a lifetime.

00:39:51.000 So if 1 in 5 women are raped in the course of a lifetime, according to the CDC, which you are unable to disprove, Stephen, then clearly— I am, and I have just proven it many times writing about it, as has Courtney and Casey, headwriters at louderwithcrowder.com.

00:40:05.000 Let me get to my point.

00:40:06.000 Let me finish, Michael.

00:40:07.000 I know in your entertainment industry you get to interrupt and run roughshod over people, and people think that somehow you're a skilled debater, but my God, man, you've got to stay on point here, okay?

00:40:15.000 I'm trying to be civil.

00:40:16.000 I'm trying to be respectful.

00:40:17.000 Stop interrupting.

00:40:19.000 No, there is.

00:40:20.000 You haven't.

00:40:21.000 Michael.

00:40:24.000 So, people, you see, this is the problem with the arguing with the leftists.

00:40:27.000 As you can see here in this conversation, one person continually interrupts, does not allow someone else to speak, is clearly emotionally perturbed.

00:40:35.000 No, I haven't been interrupting you.

00:40:36.000 I have gotten maybe two phrases in before you go into a paragraph, Michael.

00:40:40.000 Michael, the video was about rape culture.

00:40:43.000 You decided to take a video from years ago Address there was a problem with it.

00:40:48.000 What difference does it make when it was from unless you disown it?

00:40:51.000 I don't disown it at all.

00:40:53.000 Okay, so what difference does it make when it was from?

00:40:54.000 Well, here's why.

00:40:54.000 Here's why.

00:40:55.000 Because the video was talking about rape culture. 1.00

00:40:57.000 And Elena Dunham.

00:40:58.000 And as it relates to rape culture on campus.

00:41:00.000 Okay?

00:41:00.000 That's what the video was about.

00:41:02.000 It's all about rape culture and on campus. 0.99

00:41:04.000 And Lena Dunham also said she was raped. 0.99

00:41:07.000 You can lie about that, and I'll call you out right now with a lie about that. 0.98

00:41:10.000 Lena Dunham said she was raped. 1.00

00:41:12.000 Lena Dunham said she was raped when she was selling books. 0.90

00:41:14.000 Afterward, when it was proven false, she said, well, maybe not. 0.79

00:41:17.000 I found a condom in a potted plant. 0.91

00:41:18.000 That's kind of rape. 0.91

00:41:20.000 Let's be real here.

00:41:20.000 That's not at all what she said.

00:41:21.000 The one outright dishonesty here is you saying Lena Dunham didn't say that. 0.52

00:41:26.000 She claims she was raped.

00:41:27.000 This video was talking about that incident while it was topical and addressing rape culture at large and the feigned outrage from the left who don't seem to care so much about real rape cultures as they exist across the globe where it doesn't exist in the United States.

00:41:41.000 In Islamic countries, as we addressed in the video, rape is ordained. 1.00

00:41:45.000 It's allowed. 0.98

00:41:45.000 As a matter of fact, rape still occurs in the United States between Muslim couples because of Sharia courts. 0.98

00:41:50.000 An imam rules over those. 0.99

00:41:52.000 That's why a lot of marriages aren't recognized by the United States government, because all that's required is a man to go to the imam and say, divorce, divorce, divorce in the United States, and it's no longer recognized marriage.

00:42:01.000 If we want to talk about rape culture, let's talk about a rape culture. 1.00

00:42:06.000 We're not talking about Islamophobia. 0.99

00:42:07.000 We're talking about rape, buddy. 0.99

00:42:09.000 Stay on topic. 0.98

00:42:10.000 We're not talking about Islamophobia. 0.67

00:42:12.000 So there's no rape culture in Islam. 0.99

00:42:13.000 There's rape culture at Mattress Girl, UVA. If you say there's rape culture in Islam and Islam in general, we would expect to see rape in Islamic cultures as being very high, right? 1.00

00:42:23.000 Yes. 0.95

00:42:24.000 Okay.

00:42:25.000 But I can't go reported because women, unless they have four witnesses, cannot come forward, Michael. 1.00

00:42:30.000 In which it lists the top countries or the countries according to incidents of rape.

00:42:35.000 Yeah, but Michael, do you believe that these rapes are reported in Islam?

00:42:39.000 They need four witnesses?

00:42:41.000 Do you believe these women are coming forward with four witnesses?

00:42:43.000 Do you believe these women are coming forward with four witnesses, Michael?

00:42:46.000 You have to go down to what?

00:42:47.000 Is Kazakhstan predominantly Muslim?

00:42:50.000 Michael, do you understand what's required in Islam to report a rape?

00:42:55.000 You're making my point. 0.93

00:42:56.000 It's a rape culture because it's a crime that you cannot prove in Islamic culture as a woman. 1.00

00:43:00.000 It's impossible to prove. 0.99

00:43:01.000 Unless you get gang raped and everyone has an about face, they have an epiphany and say, you know what? 0.98

00:43:06.000 I was wrong in raping and running a train on that woman. 1.00

00:43:09.000 You need four witnesses, Michael.

00:43:11.000 You cannot prove it.

00:43:11.000 That's a real rape culture where a woman cannot possibly prove rape.

00:43:15.000 Steven, how did we get from Lena Dunham to Islam? 0.62

00:43:20.000 Can I answer? 0.98

00:43:21.000 And if you want to talk about Islam, you would expect that in a Muslim city in America that rape would be a real problem, yeah? 1.00

00:43:31.000 No. 0.98

00:43:32.000 Let me address that.

00:43:32.000 You said, how did we get here?

00:43:33.000 Rape culture. 1.00

00:43:34.000 Which is exactly how this conversation started.

00:43:37.000 You were offended by a video regarding rape culture.

00:43:39.000 So I've answered that question.

00:43:40.000 Now with Islam... 1.00

00:43:42.000 I don't want to talk about Islam. 1.00

00:43:43.000 You just asked me a question about Islam.

00:43:45.000 I would expect it to be higher.

00:43:47.000 I don't profess to know enough about Islam.

00:43:48.000 But you just asked me a question.

00:43:49.000 So let me answer it.

00:43:49.000 So let me answer it and then we can move forward from that.

00:43:51.000 You asked me a question.

00:43:52.000 No, I wouldn't expect them to be higher because it's a system of laws that will not recognize rape.

00:43:57.000 It is a rape culture because a woman can't come forward if she's raped. 1.00

00:44:01.000 That's my point.

00:44:02.000 I'm saying, and forgive me because I don't know.

00:44:05.000 In this country where there's a large Muslim population, would you expect to see rape incidents being higher? 0.99

00:44:12.000 No, absolutely not, because they can go unreported, and the woman can be punished if she comes forward with rape, doesn't have the amount of witnesses. 0.94

00:44:19.000 In the United States?

00:44:20.000 Yes.

00:44:21.000 Okay.

00:44:22.000 Where's the evidence of that?

00:44:23.000 Yeah, okay, well, let me explain to you.

00:44:24.000 Are you aware of how Muslim congregations work?

00:44:29.000 No.

00:44:30.000 Okay, so not every Imam can be a Sharia court judge, but every single Muslim congregation has to have a head Imam who can operate Sharia law.

00:44:39.000 In other words, who can fundamentally recognize marriages, divorce.

00:44:42.000 They have their own system of laws, much like Jewish laws. 0.88

00:44:46.000 Except very different, obviously, because they encourage rape culture. 0.99

00:44:49.000 Now, with women who are raped in Islam, they require multiple witnesses. 0.89

00:44:55.000 To come forward and say they have personally witnessed the rape. 0.87

00:44:59.000 No, they can't.

00:45:01.000 Because of their religion?

00:45:02.000 That's what I'm asking.

00:45:03.000 Yeah, they can't.

00:45:04.000 They cannot. 0.98

00:45:06.000 You're saying American Muslim women cannot come forward To complain of rape.

00:45:13.000 Very insightful, exactly. 0.97

00:45:14.000 We're talking about a real rape culture. 0.99

00:45:15.000 They're intimidated into silence, and they don't come forward. 0.92

00:45:18.000 Where's your evidence of this, that American Muslim women are not coming forward for rape, if they're raped? 0.99

00:45:23.000 In any greater numbers than the rest of America. 0.52

00:45:26.000 Today, there's a story.

00:45:28.000 81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.

00:45:32.000 I don't think any of them were Muslim.

00:45:35.000 I'm sure they weren't.

00:45:37.000 So, you're saying in the culture of Islam they can't come forward, but in the larger culture it's not a problem.

00:45:43.000 I'm saying there were 81 people who were victims of this dude, the USA Gymnastics coach, but that's not a problem in this culture?

00:45:53.000 I'm not aware of anyone here saying it's not a problem if 80 women are raped.

00:45:57.000 No, no. 0.93

00:45:58.000 Rape culture. 1.00

00:45:58.000 We're saying the culture of rape, the culture that excuses and let sexual abuse go. 1.00

00:46:04.000 Thank you so much for bringing that up.

00:46:07.000 Exactly.

00:46:07.000 We agree.

00:46:08.000 It is not a rape culture. 0.99

00:46:09.000 This is not a culture that allows sexual abuse to go.

00:46:11.000 There are laws against it.

00:46:12.000 Right.

00:46:13.000 81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.

00:46:16.000 Now, clearly, if sexual abuse was not tolerated in this nation after one person was abused by this man, it would have stopped.

00:46:26.000 But it didn't.

00:46:26.000 No.

00:46:27.000 No, that's not...

00:46:28.000 This is a total and complete non-sequitur, Michael.

00:46:31.000 How is it?

00:46:31.000 When you're talking about...

00:46:32.000 You're completely unrelated.

00:46:33.000 You're talking about a story today.

00:46:35.000 Wait, wait, wait.

00:46:36.000 You said, how is this relevant?

00:46:37.000 And I'm trying to answer you, but you're talking over me.

00:46:39.000 You've got to stay on track, buddy.

00:46:40.000 81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.

00:46:44.000 I just asked you if...

00:46:46.000 It's a problem in American Muslim culture that they can't come forward.

00:46:49.000 You said yes.

00:46:50.000 And then conversely, you're saying American women don't have this problem. 0.99

00:46:53.000 I'm saying in today's paper, 81 people, American people, have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.

00:47:01.000 It seems like that's an apples-to-apples comparison.

00:47:04.000 You're Don Quixote fighting windmills, man.

00:47:06.000 I didn't say any of those things.

00:47:09.000 Okay, so clarify for me.

00:47:10.000 Okay.

00:47:11.000 I was talking about a real rape culture. 1.00

00:47:14.000 Yes, you keep saying real rape culture. 0.91

00:47:17.000 Yes.

00:47:18.000 And it doesn't make any more sense when you say it the fifth time or the first time.

00:47:21.000 Okay.

00:47:22.000 I'm sorry you feel that way.

00:47:29.000 And I'm saying there's a problem in the culture and you're denying it.

00:47:33.000 And then as evidence, I'm saying 81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics Church of sexual abuse.

00:47:38.000 It seems to me you're denying the experience of those 81 people because you're saying there is no culture.

00:47:44.000 It's not a problem.

00:47:46.000 Multitude of falsehoods there.

00:47:47.000 I don't know if you're doing it deliberately at this point.

00:47:50.000 I don't know if it's a flail or if you believe that I said, rape not a problem.

00:47:54.000 No, I'm saying rape culture. 1.00

00:47:56.000 The culture that allows us to happen.

00:47:57.000 Right, exactly.

00:47:58.000 So it's good.

00:47:58.000 Let's talk about that.

00:47:59.000 I never said, Stephen, that you approve of rape.

00:48:02.000 You just said that these women coming forward, that this happened, that you're saying it's not a problem.

00:48:07.000 That's what you just said.

00:48:08.000 No, I'm saying that you're saying because there's no rape culture, if there were no rape culture, then this wouldn't have happened. 0.98

00:48:15.000 Let me answer now, and then we can go back to you.

00:48:18.000 I've given you several paragraphs, and you've given me one phrase.

00:48:21.000 Okay.

00:48:22.000 I was talking about real rape cultures that exist in law. 1.00

00:48:26.000 Mysore, Quran, Hadith, Virtually every Islamic country in existence and every Islamic population, going back to the Ottoman Empire as far as rape laws and how they exist. 0.84

00:48:36.000 This is real rape culture where women are treated as second-class citizens and are unable to verifiably prove the crime of rape. 1.00

00:48:43.000 And if they come forward accusing rape and cannot prove it in a system of law that makes it impossible, the woman is punished. 0.83

00:48:49.000 My point is, that to me would be a real rape culture versus the United States where we have laws in place and virtually all Americans... 0.96

00:48:57.000 Barring a very small percentage who commit rape, find rape here completely abhorrent.

00:49:02.000 Myself included, even though you're appalled by this video.

00:49:06.000 That's my point.

00:49:07.000 Yeah, you and I agree.

00:49:09.000 You and I will always agree that rape is abhorrent, that one rape is too many.

00:49:15.000 Where we're disagreeing, it seems like, is in the broader problem in the culture, in American culture.

00:49:22.000 And we both agree that rape is a problem. 0.89

00:49:24.000 So the question is, is there a larger problem in the culture that allows sexual abuse, intimidation, harassment, assault to occur?

00:49:33.000 I'm saying there is.

00:49:34.000 You're saying there isn't.

00:49:36.000 As evidence, I'm using the CDC, which you have not just proven, and I'm citing, just looking at today's headline, 81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.

00:49:46.000 Now, that person would not have been allowed to get away with that for so long over so many people if there wasn't a larger problem in the culture.

00:49:54.000 Yeah.

00:49:55.000 Okay, first off, that last story is what we call anecdotal.

00:49:57.000 As far as the CDC, it has been disproven many times.

00:50:01.000 It hasn't, and you haven't done it.

00:50:03.000 Okay, again, your own sources, the FBI, we're talking about rape reported.

00:50:07.000 I think it's important to go by a definition of actual rape reported, of actual crimes of rape, versus something that you admitted you cannot define from the CDC. People reporting experiencing rape, especially in light of state statutes, as I pointed out, in California.

00:50:21.000 And they're even worse on campus.

00:50:22.000 The laws are even, the reason campus matters is because the laws are even more lenient, the rules are even more lenient, where anyone can accuse a man of rape and he can be expelled, as we saw with the UVA scandal, as we saw with Mattress Girl at Columbia.

00:50:34.000 Virtually every high-profile rape case that has been in the media in the last half a decade has been proven false and has destroyed the lives of men who did not commit rape.

00:50:43.000 So my point is there are real victims here.

00:50:45.000 The Joyce and Dusky allegations were false.

00:50:47.000 The Bill Cosby allegations are false.

00:50:49.000 This U.S. gymnastics coach.

00:50:51.000 I don't know about the U.S. gymnastics coach.

00:50:53.000 I'll give you that.

00:50:54.000 If this is in a headline today, I don't know about that.

00:50:56.000 And that could be a problem.

00:50:57.000 But again, Mattress Girl, UVA, Rolling Stone, these were high, high-profile cases.

00:51:01.000 And we're talking about actual on-campus rape.

00:51:03.000 You have absolutely quoted, too.

00:51:04.000 What about Sandusky's victims?

00:51:05.000 What about Cosby's victims?

00:51:07.000 Also high-profile.

00:51:08.000 What about Roger Ailes' victims?

00:51:10.000 Also high-profile. 1.00

00:51:11.000 Roger Ailes didn't rape anybody, but he's a scumbag. 1.00

00:51:12.000 But he didn't rape anybody. 1.00

00:51:13.000 What?

00:51:14.000 Roger Ailes didn't rape anybody. 0.99

00:51:15.000 He's a dirtbag, but he didn't rape anybody. 0.98

00:51:17.000 Right, but he did have to settle out of court. 0.99

00:51:20.000 Yeah, but can we agree motorboating Megyn Kelly in the green room is not rape? 1.00

00:51:24.000 Can we agree there?

00:51:25.000 Here's the revised FBI definition of rape. 0.81

00:51:29.000 Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person without the consent Of the victim. 0.88

00:51:39.000 So that is what I'm using for the FBI. For the FBI. Perfect. 0.98

00:51:42.000 Perfect.

00:51:43.000 So, again, that's the statistic I want to work with.

00:51:45.000 According to your statistic, there is 90-something thousand, right, per year in 2015.

00:51:50.000 Doing the math for that, because you wanted to say over a lifetime, we agree, over a lifetime, that would require 1,600 years, 1,500 to 1,600 years or so for it to be one in five women raped in a lifetime.

00:52:00.000 So the FBI statistics would reflect actually much more severely what I'm talking about from the Bureau of Justice.

00:52:06.000 I want to go by that definition.

00:52:07.000 I agree on that definition of rape.

00:52:09.000 I do not agree on the CDC definition where anyone experiences, claims that they experience rape.

00:52:15.000 I think the FBI is more accurate because we just defined it.

00:52:18.000 Can we agree?

00:52:19.000 But you haven't given me a different definition from the CDC. No, I just used your own FBI statistic, which is more valid, because it's defined.

00:52:27.000 Steven, you're saying you agree with that definition, but you don't agree with the CDC definition, but you haven't provided me with the CDC definition.

00:52:33.000 There is no definition!

00:52:34.000 The burden's on you to provide the definition if you're saying there's a rape culture.

00:52:37.000 There is no definition from the CDC. It's regretful sex. 1.00

00:52:40.000 Then you have to wait for me to look up this entire survey, the National Intimate Partner...

00:52:47.000 Michael, here's my point.

00:52:49.000 The FBI statistics and the Bureau of Justice statistics, these are official statistics of where you can verify race.

00:52:55.000 The CDC is also official.

00:52:56.000 It's a government entity.

00:52:57.000 It's not official if it's a poll.

00:52:59.000 It is official, Stephen.

00:52:59.000 How do you say the CDC isn't official?

00:53:02.000 Okay, what's more accurate, a poll or the votes in an election?

00:53:06.000 What?

00:53:07.000 The point is, you're quoting a poll.

00:53:09.000 I am quoting actual incidents of rape.

00:53:11.000 No, I'm quoting a survey.

00:53:12.000 A survey is a poll.

00:53:14.000 No, it's not a poll, Stephen.

00:53:16.000 A poll is when people voluntarily offer information.

00:53:20.000 Yes, it is.

00:53:20.000 You want me to grab a thesaurus?

00:53:21.000 Well, I guess you're right.

00:53:22.000 That is a survey.

00:53:22.000 I agree with you.

00:53:23.000 Yes, a survey is a poll.

00:53:23.000 So my point is, if we are going to go out and throw out the allegation, which, by the way, can destroy lives of young men.

00:53:29.000 Right. 0.56

00:53:29.000 Rapists should be buried beneath the train tracks. 0.56

00:53:31.000 If we're going to throw out that allegation, we need a whole lot more than a poll.

00:53:35.000 And every single verifiable statistic, including the ones that you've thrown out today from the FBI, prove the idea of one in five completely, totally false.

00:53:44.000 No, that's just not true.

00:53:46.000 Now, if we look at...

00:53:47.000 Show me the FBI statistics.

00:53:48.000 Show me the statistics of incidents of rape.

00:53:51.000 The word reported to law enforcement...

00:53:55.000 I've seen various studies that say only 30 to 40 percent are reported.

00:54:01.000 You obviously disagree with that.

00:54:03.000 Even if that were the case, we're eliminating it down to 900 years for it to be one in five.

00:54:08.000 I mean, it just doesn't add up.

00:54:09.000 It just doesn't add up.

00:54:11.000 You're going anecdotal.

00:54:13.000 No, no, let me finish here.

00:54:14.000 You're going anecdotal, and everyone watching this knows that not one in five women they know are raped.

00:54:19.000 And you know how I know?

00:54:20.000 My wife, right now as we speak, right now as we take this interview, is at a crisis pregnancy center where she volunteers.

00:54:26.000 She knows these statistics through and through, and she has to report it when rape occurs. 1.00

00:54:30.000 This is what she does.

00:54:32.000 This is what the FBI does.

00:54:34.000 And the statistics that you have given us today, when we have defined actual rape, on which we agree, the FBI or Bureau of Justice, the CDC is a poll, nowhere can you prove that there is a 1 in 5 chance of rape, a 1 in 5 incidence of rape.

00:54:46.000 Thus, there is no systematic rape culture. 0.95

00:54:50.000 Okay, so let's say you're correct.

00:54:51.000 I'll grant you that you are absolutely 100% correct.

00:54:54.000 Thank you.

00:54:54.000 What is the correct number of women who are raped over the course of a lifetime?

00:54:57.000 Yeah, it's about.03 in 5, 6.1 per thousand.

00:55:01.000 So 6.1 per thousand over the course of a lifetime.

00:55:05.000 What are you basing that on?

00:55:06.000 I'm basing it on the statistics that you've given me from the FBI and the Bureau of Justice statistics that specifically relate to campus.

00:55:13.000 You can ask me to do math, which is going to be difficult for me.

00:55:16.000 90,000 rapes in one year for law enforcement in 2015.

00:55:20.000 If we agree that, what, half of rapes are reported, 40% of rapes are reported, what do you think it is?

00:55:26.000 Let's say that.

00:55:27.000 I don't agree, but let's say that for the sake of argument, because I want you to do this math live on air.

00:55:31.000 I don't think it's going to turn out too well for you.

00:55:33.000 You might be right.

00:55:34.000 So let's say it is 40% or 30% is the number that I most commonly see that are reported, which means 70% are not reported.

00:55:42.000 So we'd have to triple that number to about 250,000 to 300,000 rapes per year. 1.00

00:55:48.000 Now, in any society that I can think of, That seems like a lot of rapes per year. 0.97

00:55:54.000 Yes, but it's not one in five.

00:55:57.000 Well, it's 300,000 per year.

00:56:00.000 Now, over the course of a lifetime, from let's say age 12, To age, what, 70?

00:56:06.000 Which is...

00:56:07.000 But first off, your cutoffs are ageist, as though no one wants to rape anybody over 70 years old.

00:56:14.000 I think that's wildly insensitive.

00:56:15.000 15% of people are ageist 12 and 17.

00:56:18.000 54 between 18 and 34.

00:56:20.000 28% between 35 and 64.

00:56:22.000 3% age 65 plus.

00:56:24.000 Michael, you said we were getting off...

00:56:26.000 No, Michael, you said we were getting off in the weeds earlier.

00:56:29.000 Would it stand to reason that we're more off in the weeds now that because of the statistics you presented, you're doing math based on assumptions that you can't verify and we're making estimates?

00:56:38.000 You and I have just agreed that 300,000 is probably a reasonable number of rapes that occur to women per year.

00:56:44.000 No, we didn't.

00:56:45.000 I said, I'll give it to you for this case, for you to be able to do your math, is what I said.

00:56:49.000 Okay, so I did my math.

00:56:50.000 So you said the number is much lower.

00:56:52.000 Yes, it's still much lower than one in five.

00:56:55.000 It's still much lower than one in five.

00:56:57.000 If it's not 90,000 reported rapes per year, which you already agreed was a good statistic, and we both agree that the number of rapes are not reported, 100% of rapes aren't reported, what is the correct number of rapes per year?

00:57:09.000 Wait, hold on a second.

00:57:10.000 Did you just say 100% of rapes aren't reported?

00:57:12.000 That's what you just said.

00:57:13.000 Oh, then I misspoke.

00:57:14.000 What I'm saying is 100% of rapes are not reported, meaning 100% of rapes, you know what I'm saying.

00:57:20.000 I think you know what I'm saying. 0.95

00:57:21.000 I don't, and I'm not trying to be a dick. 0.91

00:57:23.000 All rapes aren't reported is what I'm saying. 0.97

00:57:25.000 Yes, okay.

00:57:25.000 All rapes, you're probably saying 100% of rapes are not necessarily reported.

00:57:31.000 No, we know that 100% of rapes are not reported.

00:57:34.000 Every person that is raped does not report the rape.

00:57:36.000 We know that.

00:57:37.000 Right.

00:57:38.000 I'm giving you a lifeline there.

00:57:39.000 I'm saying what you're saying is not necessarily all rapes are reported.

00:57:42.000 You used the word 100%.

00:57:42.000 And I'm saying no.

00:57:45.000 We know for a fact that all rapes aren't reported.

00:57:48.000 Okay.

00:57:49.000 Can I try and do some math here?

00:57:51.000 Am I allowed to do that since you were doing some math there?

00:57:53.000 Of course.

00:57:54.000 Okay.

00:57:55.000 All right.

00:57:55.000 So the number you said, let's go with your number.

00:57:58.000 Was it about 300,000 over the course of a lifetime?

00:58:01.000 No, 300,000 per year.

00:58:03.000 Per year, and then multiplied over a lifetime up to about 70 years old from 12 to 70 because no one wants to rape 70-year-olds. 1.00

00:58:09.000 Well, apparently 3% of rapists do.

00:58:11.000 Well, I think we can agree that they have a special kind of sickness, Michael.

00:58:16.000 Are you sure you want to be a nightclub comic?

00:58:18.000 So, with the math, 600 years.

00:58:22.000 I can't explain that to me because 300,000 times 68, which is the rough range of years that I'm giving you.

00:58:31.000 I'm just going to do the math right now.

00:58:32.000 Now, 300,000 times 58 is 17,400,000.

00:58:39.000 Please don't ever run for president.

00:58:40.000 They're going to trot this video out.

00:58:43.000 You are right.

00:58:43.000 I agree with that number.

00:58:45.000 Okay, so now let's get back.

00:58:47.000 Can we agree that we got off on the weeds?

00:58:49.000 I would say that I was correct regarding the statistics.

00:58:53.000 Let's say we're not.

00:58:54.000 But can we agree that...

00:58:55.000 There is certainly the burden of proof on someone who is claiming a rape culture to prove such a shocking statistic, and it can't be beyond a poll, which doesn't define rape.

00:59:06.000 And so, that's a problem.

00:59:08.000 The poll does define rape. 0.95

00:59:08.000 You and I don't have the definition in front of us. 0.95

00:59:10.000 Clearly, it must, or else it wouldn't be a survey.

00:59:13.000 Well, again, if it falls under the definition of the California statute of affirmative consent, that is any regretful sex. 0.86

00:59:20.000 But we don't know what it falls under.

00:59:22.000 There's no reason to think it would fall under the California since it's a national survey.

00:59:26.000 It's a national survey, but of course would have to allow for that umbrella considering that certain states would consider that rape.

00:59:32.000 We don't know.

00:59:33.000 You and I don't know.

00:59:34.000 It's a poll, Michael.

00:59:36.000 Let's say that.

00:59:37.000 It's a poll which is very much...

00:59:39.000 These are not relied upon as evidence, as the same as reports and incidents from a federal bureau of investigation, from the FBI, or from the Bureau of Justice.

00:59:46.000 So it's not as reliable.

00:59:49.000 So to say that there is a rape culture, again, the issue at large is... 0.85

00:59:54.000 The survey from the FBI is also a poll, according to your definition.

00:59:58.000 No, it's not.

00:59:58.000 They get their numbers from the different states which report.

01:00:00.000 No, it's not, Michael.

01:00:02.000 Yes, it is.

01:00:03.000 That's how they get it.

01:00:04.000 They get it from incidents of rape that actually are reported criminally.

01:00:08.000 Yeah, from each state.

01:00:09.000 Yes, would we not agree that that is probably, even if you say only 40% of rapes, as we gave you, even if you say only 40% of rapes, but I don't agree to you, but I'm giving to you for the sake of argument.

01:00:18.000 I'm saying that's a very high estimate of the number that are reported.

01:00:21.000 Well, not if you consider people like Lena Dunham who come out and claim rape and then we find out that it's verifiably false, but let's assume 40% of rapes are reported.

01:00:28.000 You haven't found that out and you haven't presented any evidence that's verifiably false.

01:00:30.000 What you're doing is you're denying her experience.

01:00:32.000 First off, I believe in a system of law. 0.87

01:00:35.000 That was my original intention, writing holy shit to video, because what you're doing is you're denying something that she experienced, and you have no idea. 0.79

01:00:41.000 Well, the burden of proof is on her when she's making an allegation of crime. 0.96

01:00:45.000 She did not.

01:00:45.000 She made an allegation of a personal experience.

01:00:47.000 She said she was raped. 0.95

01:00:47.000 She didn't make an allegation of crime. 0.95

01:00:50.000 Holy crap, Michael. 0.99

01:00:51.000 If you say I was raped, is that not a crime? 1.00

01:00:54.000 Of course it is.

01:00:55.000 Then she accused someone of a crime.

01:00:57.000 She accused someone who she used the name Barry about National Treasury of the College Republicans, where she was.

01:01:04.000 We were easily able to find a time frame.

01:01:06.000 That person was easily able to be found.

01:01:08.000 And we were easily able to trace it back and see if that incident had occurred.

01:01:11.000 And she afterward walked it back.

01:01:13.000 But it is a crime.

01:01:14.000 To say I was raped is to accuse someone of a crime, Michael.

01:01:17.000 She said the person who people found wasn't the person that she said.

01:01:22.000 I'll quote her to you.

01:01:24.000 Michael, you said she didn't accuse anyone of a crime, saying I was raped.

01:01:27.000 Did someone commit a crime?

01:01:30.000 She did not specifically name the person.

01:01:34.000 Michael, is that an accusation of a crime being committed, Michael?

01:01:40.000 For someone who wants to use a poll as data, is someone saying I'm raped?

01:01:44.000 It's a very simple question.

01:01:45.000 If I say I'm raped, was a crime committed?

01:01:47.000 Am I making a claim of a crime?

01:01:49.000 Yes, you are, but there's a difference between making a claim of a crime and accusing somebody of a crime.

01:01:55.000 Okay, let's go with that.

01:01:56.000 Let's say it's a claim of a crime, because that would still be filed under that poll.

01:02:00.000 I am saying, and this is important, because I think you're a little, you might have a blind spot here, just as far as being a little bit out of touch with what people see as rape.

01:02:09.000 People would even read Lena Dunham's own story, most people did, when she accused We're good to go.

01:02:42.000 You're conflating her experience with the CDC's statistic, and you and I don't know.

01:02:46.000 So we believe that she would not be included in the CDC's statistic of rape.

01:02:50.000 When she said she was raped, she claimed she was raped flat out, and we're saying that the CDC would not include her when they include people who claim experiencing rape?

01:02:59.000 I suppose they would.

01:03:00.000 Yes, they would.

01:03:01.000 And my point is that would, of course, inflate a statistic that would be completely and totally irreconcilable with the actual statistics that we have from the FBI and the Bureau of Justice.

01:03:11.000 So let's say that the actual claim is what?

01:03:15.000 The actual number of women who are raped.

01:03:17.000 And we're only talking about rape now.

01:03:19.000 We're not talking about sexual intimidation.

01:03:21.000 We're not talking about sexual harassment.

01:03:23.000 We're not talking about stalking. 1.00

01:03:24.000 We're not talking about grabbing by the pussy or by whatever it is. 1.00

01:03:28.000 We're only talking about rape. 1.00

01:03:31.000 That that number is what?

01:03:33.000 1 in 20?

01:03:35.000 No, I gave you the number.

01:03:36.000 It's about 6.1 and 1,000.

01:03:38.000 But you haven't given me any basis for that number other than the Bureau of Justice.

01:03:40.000 Okay, we're going to keep arguing this until we're blue in the face.

01:03:42.000 I use your statistics and the Bureau of Justice. 1.00

01:03:44.000 Because your statistic is bullshit, and you know it's bullshit. 1.00

01:03:45.000 Right, let's go with the poll that includes Lena Dunham because she found a condom and a plant. 1.00

01:03:49.000 Michael, the point is that...

01:03:50.000 The CDC is a government agency that...

01:03:52.000 Michael, the point is you keep changing, you keep moving the goalposts.

01:03:54.000 The Bureau of Justice, the study that you said has only to do with college.

01:03:58.000 No, no, Michael.

01:03:59.000 I'm also using the FBI statistics.

01:04:02.000 So the reason I'm giving you...

01:04:08.000 Okay, Michael, I need you to understand that I'm giving you a gift here, okay?

01:04:11.000 And let me explain how.

01:04:13.000 I'm happy to receive any gifts you give me.

01:04:14.000 Thank you very much, and I appreciate you coming on the show, and I genuinely am a fan of a lot of the work that you've done, so I wish this could have been more amicable.

01:04:22.000 I am using your statistics, the FBI statistics, which are very unforgiving to your stance, okay?

01:04:28.000 In using the Bureau of Justice statistics, which would actually be more lenient on definitions of rape, because it would go by college reportings of rape, not even We're

01:05:04.000 good to go.

01:05:06.000 To prove that we have a rape culture. 1.00

01:05:08.000 And so my point is, when I go out and I make a video setting these exact statistics about rape culture, and you respond, holy sh**, it's appalling, the burden on you is to prove it, I don't believe you've done that effectively today.

01:05:20.000 I understand.

01:05:21.000 I'm saying that the sketch that you created in the video is appalling and not funny.

01:05:28.000 There we go.

01:05:29.000 The famous leftist attack.

01:05:30.000 Not funny.

01:05:31.000 That's not an argument.

01:05:32.000 No, no.

01:05:33.000 It's just my opinion.

01:05:33.000 I agree.

01:05:34.000 It's just my opinion.

01:05:35.000 Sure.

01:05:36.000 And the opinion of your audience is going to be that you're becoming decreasingly funny as you become a social justice warrior for causes that you can't prove.

01:05:46.000 Yeah.

01:05:46.000 Michael, you've been so smug tonight and you've been so smug and condescending in your wrongness.

01:05:54.000 It's remarkable.

01:05:58.000 If you want to talk about smug and condescending, which I don't, when you continually say, you've got to stay on track, buddy, that's smug and condescending.

01:06:05.000 No, smug and condescending is to say you have no proof and then cite completely irrelevant statistics.

01:06:11.000 I will leave it to people to go through all the statistics that I cited to determine whether or not they're relevant.

01:06:20.000 My only point...

01:06:22.000 And remains my only point.

01:06:24.000 Is that the video you made.

01:06:25.000 Right.

01:06:26.000 And the sketch specifically within the video.

01:06:28.000 Is offensive.

01:06:29.000 Is not funny.

01:06:31.000 Is appalling.

01:06:32.000 Sure.

01:06:33.000 And demeans and diminishes somebody's experience.

01:06:37.000 And by doing that.

01:06:39.000 And I don't look.

01:06:39.000 And your rape jokes don't.

01:06:41.000 I don't know Lena Dunham.

01:06:42.000 I don't have a particularly strong opinion about Lena Dunham.

01:06:45.000 And your rape jokes don't.

01:06:45.000 But what I do have a strong opinion about is people...

01:06:50.000 In my life who have undergone difficult, questionable sexual experiences in which they felt like they were victimized, shamed, harassed, or intimidated.

01:07:06.000 And by doing a video where you're creating a cartoon of somebody Right.

01:07:25.000 Because a kid with a YouTube channel and a wildly unpopular opinion that's never accepted in the entertainment industry, making fun of someone who has a deal with the biggest network in all of television, Lena Dunham with HBO, that's punching down.

01:07:36.000 I would say, I'm sorry you don't find it funny.

01:07:39.000 I would say, I'm sorry, let me respond.

01:07:41.000 I would say, I'm sorry you don't find it funny.

01:07:44.000 That is punching down. 0.92

01:07:45.000 Right, kind of like when you tweeted, what kind of rape? 0.97

01:07:47.000 Straight up rape or funny rape? 1.00

01:07:48.000 Because you might think a funny rape was funny. 0.97

01:07:50.000 So you've made plenty of rape jokes. 1.00

01:07:52.000 You just don't like it.

01:07:53.000 What is that in reference to?

01:07:54.000 This was in reference to Kumail Kumaji regarding the Daniel Tosh saga about the rape joke.

01:07:59.000 The point is, this is far less sensitive.

01:08:01.000 Clearly what I was doing was making fun of the idea that rape could be funny.

01:08:05.000 No.

01:08:10.000 Right, that's sarcasm right there.

01:08:22.000 Clearly, I'm not saying rape is funny.

01:08:24.000 I'm saying the opposite.

01:08:25.000 Sarcasm is a tool used in the absence of wit.

01:08:29.000 So we're saying that my issue, of course I'm not funny, but your opposite day humor is funny.

01:08:36.000 I'm saying that sketch wasn't funny.

01:08:37.000 Right, and I'm saying opposite day sarcasm is very lazy.

01:08:41.000 Wait, can you see me because it's getting dark in my room?

01:08:44.000 Am I too dark or am I alright?

01:08:45.000 You look marvelous.

01:08:46.000 Okay. 0.98

01:08:47.000 What I am saying is, what kind of rape, straight-up rape or funny rape? 0.77

01:08:51.000 No, as a matter of fact, I don't believe that anyone would read that and say that you are condemning Daniel Tosh for the idea that rape would be funny. 0.71

01:08:56.000 So I think that's lazy comedy.

01:08:57.000 But here's the thing.

01:08:58.000 I don't find it offensive, and I find you funny regardless.

01:09:02.000 My point is, you have made far more rape jokes, with far less context, without actually making rape jokes to make a point, actually pointing towards statistics, as I did in that video, where I was pointing out not only the problem with rape culture at large in Islam, this is the video, but the verifiably false statistic of 1 in 5, and I used that, and I used a topical issue with Lena Dunham's claim of a crime at that point to make my point, you have made rape jokes willy-nilly, With no context whatsoever, which would be far less sensitive.

01:09:30.000 But here's the thing.

01:09:30.000 We're in a modern state of comedy, and this is a sad state of comedy where comedians have to sit here and talk about what's demeaning, what's appalling, and is no longer acceptable.

01:09:40.000 I find it remarkable.

01:09:41.000 And I didn't say it wasn't acceptable.

01:09:43.000 I said it was not funny and appalling.

01:09:45.000 It's acceptable, certainly.

01:09:46.000 Your audience enjoys it.

01:09:47.000 You demanded that I recant it.

01:09:50.000 I asked if you recanted it because you brought it up as a video that was a couple years old.

01:09:55.000 There's no more appropriate role of a comedian than demanding someone recant.

01:09:59.000 It suggested to me that you had an issue with it.

01:10:01.000 Michael, Michael, comedy is going to die a slow death if there are more people with your mindset.

01:10:08.000 Here's my issue here.

01:10:09.000 I'm doing alright, buddy.

01:10:11.000 Eh, debatable.

01:10:12.000 If you look at the social media interactions, you're having some problems because people are thinking you're going off the deep end, Michael.

01:10:18.000 That's an issue right now.

01:10:19.000 Say that again. 0.71

01:10:19.000 I didn't understand that. 0.71

01:10:20.000 Okay.

01:10:21.000 You have several million followers and you have several million fans because you've had a leg up because you've been in a very friendly industry with big networks.

01:10:28.000 You've been on these networks.

01:10:29.000 I applaud you.

01:10:30.000 So you have a huge, huge platform.

01:10:32.000 And you have remarkably low interactivity and you can see as it steadily decreased along with your self-important There's accusations leveled at other comedians as to what they can and can't say or what is appalling and what is not appalling.

01:10:45.000 And I think you're going to dig your own grave.

01:10:46.000 Did I say that you could or could not say anything?

01:10:49.000 You said it was appalling and asked me to recant, which I don't think is something a comedian should ever do.

01:10:54.000 I didn't ask you to recant.

01:10:54.000 I asked if you did.

01:10:55.000 I'd never asked you to recant, and I never would.

01:10:59.000 Did I, at any point, say that you are not allowed to say that or that you shouldn't say that?

01:11:04.000 I don't think I did.

01:11:06.000 Did I say you don't have the right to say it?

01:11:07.000 I don't think I did.

01:11:08.000 What I said was, it's not funny and it's appalling and I stand by that.

01:11:11.000 It's not funny and it is appalling.

01:11:13.000 Yeah, and that's what you have to preface your argument with because you have no argument.

01:11:17.000 Thank you very much.

01:11:19.000 We had to spend an hour arguing, but you had no argument.

01:11:23.000 So you have to preface it with it's not funny, it's appalling, and therefore here are my arguments, which aren't very strong.

01:11:28.000 All I can say is you didn't move the needle with me at all, and I clearly didn't move the needle with you at all.

01:11:32.000 I don't know if we were just talking past each other or we were just arguing over statistics for an hour.

01:11:37.000 But nothing that you said to me was compelling in the sense that the video, the sketch portion of the video that I was commenting on in any way helped in any way move the conversation forward about either rape or, we both agree, the problematic term rape culture.

01:11:55.000 Well, we don't agree on problematic.

01:11:56.000 I think it's an inaccurate term.

01:11:58.000 I would say that this is a very strong lesson, as you'll see by the feedback after this debate.

01:12:03.000 I hope you come back on the show.

01:12:05.000 As to punching down, which I think...

01:12:08.000 Wait, you're saying I'm punching down to you?

01:12:09.000 Yes.

01:12:10.000 I'm coming on your show and I'm going to be dealing with your audience for the next week and a half yelling at me.

01:12:17.000 Kicking and screaming someone in the entertainment industry who is surrounded by people with the exact same opinion and you found an old video.

01:12:26.000 You're mad at me for being thoughtful about the way that I came on your show as opposed to just saying thanks for coming on the show.

01:12:32.000 Well I did say thanks for coming on the show.

01:12:37.000 I've gone out of my way for the last three weeks to try to get on the show and to try to make it work after I thought about it and consulted with the people that I consulted with.

01:12:45.000 I don't know who these people are you consulted with, but I'm glad that they...

01:12:47.000 I agree, and I'm not going to name them because I think that would be irresponsible because I've already identified them as rape victims.

01:12:53.000 Ah, okay, okay.

01:12:54.000 So we're into the realm back of the anecdotal, where you've identified people as rape victims who you've consulted with, therefore the poll is accurate.

01:12:59.000 Stephen, you used your wife anecdotally.

01:13:00.000 You said my wife deals with this all day, every day. 0.99

01:13:03.000 That's anecdotal.

01:13:04.000 Well, I used that pointing to statistics and the statistics that they used.

01:13:08.000 You used the 81 people accused of former USA as anecdotal.

01:13:11.000 That was you!

01:13:12.000 I didn't even know about that story!

01:13:15.000 It's a dead spin.

01:13:17.000 But you just said I brought it up.

01:13:18.000 You brought it up, Michael.

01:13:19.000 Yeah, I brought it in, but you said I used it anecdotally.

01:13:22.000 Why would I use it anecdotally?

01:13:24.000 That was your story.

01:13:25.000 No, Stephen, when I referred to it, you said that I was being anecdotal by referring to it.

01:13:32.000 Okay.

01:13:33.000 I would say go to the tail of the tape.

01:13:36.000 You brought up that story and used it anecdotally.

01:13:38.000 I did bring up this.

01:13:38.000 I absolutely brought up this story.

01:13:39.000 Okay, so then I didn't bring it up anecdotally.

01:13:41.000 Michael Ian Black, I really do appreciate you taking the time.

01:13:44.000 Listen, maybe I didn't move the needle with you.

01:13:47.000 Maybe you didn't move the needle with me, but we'll see.

01:13:50.000 However, what people think about rape culture, if it's a problem, you can tweet me at S. Crowder.

01:13:55.000 You can tweet Michael at Michael Ian Black.

01:13:57.000 We certainly know what your audience is going to think of it, and I'm prepared for that abuse.

01:14:00.000 Yes.

01:14:01.000 Actually, I think my audience is remarkably respectful.

01:14:03.000 I think you'll be surprised, but they'll disagree with you statistically.

01:14:05.000 And I think they'll present those statistics, and I would encourage them to do so.

01:14:08.000 I would encourage them to respect the fact that Michael Ian Black did have the balls to come up on the program.

01:14:14.000 Not many people do. 0.62

01:14:15.000 We know this.

01:14:16.000 It's a problem booking leftist guests.

01:14:18.000 Leftists generally don't like to go on other programs.

01:14:20.000 Most people don't.

01:14:21.000 They don't like getting out of their echo chambers.

01:14:22.000 They have immense respect for you doing so.

01:14:24.000 Just as we're going to talk about Alan Combs, who was a friend of mine, I respect his willingness to stand in there and do it.

01:14:30.000 And I am saying right now to my audience, anyone watching, even if they disagree with you, please keep it respectful.

01:14:35.000 Please keep it civil.

01:14:36.000 And if you have evidence that you think is required reading for Michael Ian Black, you can tweet him at Michael Ian Black.

01:14:42.000 And really, I do hope that you come back on the program and hopefully next time it's less heated.

01:14:46.000 I do appreciate you doing it, sir.

01:14:50.000 First of all, thank you, Stephen.

01:14:51.000 Thank you for having me.

01:14:53.000 Thank you for asking your people to be respectful.

01:14:57.000 And whether they are or not, I don't really care.

01:15:00.000 And thank you for allowing me to speak in full paragraphs, even if I was running roughshod over you at times.

01:15:07.000 I apologize for that.

01:15:08.000 I do get passionate.

01:15:09.000 And listen, I appreciate your passion, and I do appreciate you coming on the show, even if we disagree.

01:15:14.000 And at any point, if people take out the torch and pitchforks for you, because they do it for all of us, every single comedian, I will still be there to defend you, regardless of how much I disagree with it.

01:15:25.000 You have my word, sir.

01:15:26.000 Thank you very much.

01:15:27.000 Thank you for having me, and I'll be happy to come back on when you want me.

01:15:30.000 Thank you.

01:15:31.000 At Michael Ian Black.

01:15:32.000 Up next, gosh, this is going to be a long show.

01:15:34.000 We will have Pogo, famous musician, and that'll be a little more lighthearted.

01:15:37.000 Thank you so much.

01:15:38.000 We'll be right back. - Looks like Timmy's in for a checkup because he's feeling sluggish.

01:15:52.000 Oh, Timmy, just as the doctor suspected, you have IEDS, Informative Entertainment Deficiency Syndrome.

01:16:00.000 The good news is there's a cure for that.

01:16:02.000 LottoWithCryder.com slash mugclub.

01:16:05.000 For only $99 annually, $69 for students, active military, or veterans, you can cure yourself of the plague that is IEDS. All right, all right, everybody sit down.

01:16:24.000 Time to start the double-secret patriarchy meeting.

01:16:27.000 On today's item list, how to preserve rape culture. 1.00

01:16:32.000 Any suggestions?

01:16:33.000 Yes, feel cool.

01:16:34.000 Yeah, I was thinking, like, what if we just make sure that nobody goes to jail for rape?

01:16:41.000 That's brilliant!

01:16:42.000 The ladies will never see it coming. 1.00

01:16:44.000 That's a surefire way to make sure we can still rape, carefree, anyone else? 1.00

01:16:47.000 Yes, Perry. 0.65

01:16:48.000 Well, I was thinking, rather than not sending anybody to actual prison for rape...

01:16:54.000 How about we just declare rape to no longer be a crime?

01:16:58.000 Truly, your brilliance is astounding.

01:17:01.000 We know enough judges here at this double-secret patriarchy meeting who'd be willing to oblige.

01:17:05.000 Rape will be legal, that's for sure. 1.00

01:17:07.000 Anyone else?

01:17:08.000 Yes, how about you?

01:17:10.000 Miss Jenner, we told you, you're not welcome here anymore.

01:17:13.000 Yeah, I know.

01:17:14.000 I just come here for the refreshments, mostly, and to... 1.00

01:17:17.000 Get out of the house, but I still do have my penis. 1.00

01:17:21.000 You still have your penis, you say? 1.00

01:17:23.000 Uh-huh, yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:17:24.000 A lot of people don't know that, but I can go back any time I want.

01:17:29.000 Hmm, that's murky territory.

01:17:30.000 We'll have to put that to a vote.

01:17:32.000 In the meantime, what's your suggestion?

01:17:35.000 Yeah, well, I was just saying, how about we let...

01:17:38.000 People like me going to the little girls' room.

01:17:41.000 I think that'd be pretty good for rape culture. 1.00

01:17:43.000 Astounding!

01:17:44.000 Do we dare?

01:17:45.000 A Trojan in a Trojan!

01:17:48.000 I wear magnums, actually.

01:17:50.000 The principle's the same.

01:17:52.000 Oh, there you have it. 0.98

01:17:53.000 Rape will no longer be a crime, and men with their penises intact will be able to go into the ladies' room. 0.98

01:17:58.000 Oh, this will be a bright day for all mankind and the preservation of the all-important Western rape culture. 1.00

01:18:05.000 Meeting adjourned, and keep your refreshments down to a one per attendee maximum.

01:18:11.000 Caitlin, I'm looking at you.

01:18:13.000 See you next Tuesday.

01:18:41.000 All right.

01:18:50.000 So is that the clip just cut out?

01:18:52.000 It just cut out.

01:18:52.000 You didn't even have it going anymore.

01:18:53.000 Okay, for those who want to know, what was that?

01:18:55.000 Why were we playing it longer?

01:18:57.000 People online are excited for people who don't know.

01:18:59.000 They're out of their mind excited.

01:19:00.000 Before I introduce this next guest, let me tell you something.

01:19:02.000 I hate him, but here's why.

01:19:04.000 Because he makes me very sad.

01:19:06.000 When I see the workload that he puts out and how much he is brimming with talent, when you actually go and check out his...

01:19:12.000 It's one of those things where you watch and you just...

01:19:15.000 You can't look yourself in the mirror.

01:19:16.000 You just feel bad about yourself.

01:19:17.000 You can't do it.

01:19:17.000 It was like Dennis Miller with stand-up comedy in his prime.

01:19:20.000 You know him as Pogo from the land under Pogo.

01:19:23.000 Thank you for being with us, sir.

01:19:25.000 Oh, it's my pleasure, buddy.

01:19:26.000 Thanks so much for having me on.

01:19:27.000 How's it going?

01:19:27.000 Oh, it's going really well, and I'm going to try not to fanboy.

01:19:32.000 Likewise, man, likewise.

01:19:34.000 You guys have plumped my beats for too long.

01:19:36.000 I appreciate it.

01:19:36.000 I appreciate you letting us do it and not hitting us with a copyright strike.

01:19:40.000 We wish we could say the same for Shia LaBeouf.

01:19:41.000 Oh, I might be working on it.

01:19:42.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:19:44.000 All of a sudden, we'll be hit with three hard strikes, and we're done with Crowder now.

01:19:49.000 So, I mean, we have so much to get into.

01:19:51.000 Let me ask you this first off.

01:19:52.000 For people who don't know, wonderful musician, DJ. But for a while, I was like, hey, man, do you want to come on the show?

01:19:58.000 You're like, I don't really know if that's my thing.

01:20:01.000 And now I've seen you.

01:20:02.000 You're sort of being more outspoken personally.

01:20:05.000 And you're incredibly articulate, cerebral.

01:20:08.000 What was the reason for the change?

01:20:11.000 I appreciate the compliments.

01:20:13.000 The change?

01:20:14.000 I don't know.

01:20:15.000 I just kind of realized that Pogo...

01:20:17.000 It can be more than just an outlet for music.

01:20:21.000 Like, I want to meet people through my work, and I have, and I want to meet more people.

01:20:25.000 And you guys have inspired me.

01:20:27.000 I mean, you know, when you go to my SoundCloud channel, it's just Pogo, it's just music.

01:20:30.000 But when you go to Loud with Crowder, it's like, you know, it's what you see is what you get.

01:20:35.000 It's you, it's Jared.

01:20:36.000 And I really love that idea.

01:20:39.000 Well, you know, it's fascinating because sometimes we from the other side are like, you know, people want us to talk about politics a lot or culture a lot.

01:20:46.000 Sometimes we'll just do videos that are just pure comedy.

01:20:48.000 You know, I started as a comedian.

01:20:49.000 So on the flip side, people are like, hey, there's no point to this.

01:20:52.000 Why are you uploading this?

01:20:53.000 Well, I think you probably understand as a creative mind, you want to be able to do all of the above, but no one's being forced to consume it.

01:21:01.000 That's right.

01:21:02.000 Yeah, you've got a sort of neat expectation, I suppose.

01:21:04.000 I've done so many Disney remixes, and to be honest with you, I'm getting over it slightly.

01:21:08.000 I did kind of put up the Robin Hood thing recently, so I've got to backtrack a bit there.

01:21:12.000 But you kind of want to break out of your box, you know, a little bit, and it sounds like you know how it feels.

01:21:17.000 I mean, that's how I found you, the Disney remixes.

01:21:19.000 It was actually Hook a long time before we were even using your bumps.

01:21:24.000 But you do a lot of other content, too.

01:21:27.000 A lot of people don't maybe realize.

01:21:28.000 I mean, how many albums do you have out there?

01:21:30.000 I've got at least, I want to say, four just on Spotify that I have as download offline.

01:21:36.000 Yeah, and there's Bandcamp stuff as well.

01:21:38.000 Mostly, I think it's about four or five.

01:21:39.000 That's right, yeah.

01:21:40.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:21:41.000 I've done a Scarface mix not too long ago.

01:21:42.000 There was Terminator up there, so there's a bit of a mixture for everybody.

01:21:46.000 So is the progression you move from G Films, Disney, to Terminator and Scarface?

01:21:50.000 Yeah, and porn's coming up next.

01:21:52.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:21:55.000 That's what's going to happen.

01:21:55.000 People are just going to be a bunch of 14-year-olds.

01:21:57.000 Oh, you need to tune into Pogo.

01:21:58.000 They say naughty things and it's remixed.

01:22:01.000 Forget Fox News.

01:22:02.000 We've got something better.

01:22:03.000 Forget the leg camera on Fox News.

01:22:05.000 It's like the cable channel with the squiggly lines that you couldn't quite get, only it's audio.

01:22:09.000 Yeah.

01:22:11.000 For those people who don't know, this is the first time we've ever spoken.

01:22:14.000 I told Jared, I was like, I want to talk to him on air because I want people to see what a real reaction is like from two people meeting.

01:22:20.000 So you're in Australia and you've taken a pretty active, I guess, sort of stance on, maybe it's Australia as well, but the American cultural, political sort of landscape, maybe not actively endorsing anyone, but I mean, you've gotten flack for simply even retweeting people.

01:22:38.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:22:39.000 Yeah, you caught me.

01:22:40.000 I'll confess.

01:22:42.000 I did tweet something to the effect that I like Trump.

01:22:45.000 I like the way that he's not afraid to speak his mind.

01:22:48.000 He'd rather discuss issues instead of dance on eggshells around feelings.

01:22:53.000 He's got his extreme side, I suppose, but I think he's a necessary change in the winds.

01:22:56.000 I think he's an F5 twister that just needs to go straight down that street.

01:23:00.000 LAUGHTER I don't know.

01:23:03.000 Just barrel roll past Congress.

01:23:06.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:23:07.000 Yeah, well, that's the problem.

01:23:08.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:23:09.000 I won't pretend to be an expert on the issues, but yeah, it's difficult, man.

01:23:14.000 It's like, is Pogo a...

01:23:17.000 Is he a musician or is it a political mouthpiece?

01:23:20.000 It's hard striking that balance when you've got so many people listening to you.

01:23:23.000 I don't think of you at all as a political mouthpiece.

01:23:25.000 I think of you as someone who has an introspective look on society as a whole.

01:23:30.000 And I think that's a lot of the people sort of online on YouTube who have maybe sort of political opinions.

01:23:34.000 I really think of it more so culturally.

01:23:36.000 I will tell you...

01:23:37.000 I've met a lot of Australians in my travels, and unlike a lot of, well, first off, Canada, where I was raised, where everyone just hates Americans, and of course most Europeans, but we don't need to deal with them right now, Australians seem to be a little more level-headed, and there doesn't seem to be this anti-American streak.

01:23:55.000 Am I incorrect about that?

01:23:56.000 Are you guys just putting on a good face when you're at the hot tub at the Belamar Hotel?

01:23:59.000 No.

01:24:00.000 No, you're pretty much on the dot.

01:24:02.000 You can tune into the radio station here and you will hear Australians trying to be Americans in hip-hop music, etc.

01:24:09.000 We're very far from anti-American.

01:24:11.000 We're actually almost entirely American ourselves.

01:24:15.000 But, yeah, I think you've pretty much on the mark.

01:24:17.000 We are pretty level-headed.

01:24:19.000 We do sort of give everybody a fair voice, a fair go, and that's one of the things I'm proud of as an Australian.

01:24:24.000 Yeah.

01:24:25.000 Has the PC sort of social justice warrior culture hit Australia yet, or is that more of an American microcosm?

01:24:30.000 Yeah, the SJWs are here in full force.

01:24:33.000 There's a TV advert at the moment run by one of the major banks where they've got two kids.

01:24:37.000 The one's a girl, the one's a boy. 0.98

01:24:38.000 The girl looks at the boy and says, you know, if I found out you had a vagina, I wouldn't pay you less. 1.00

01:24:43.000 And the boy looks at the girl and literally just starts laughing and yawning. 0.98

01:24:47.000 And I guess in their mind, they're trying to make, you know, the right look unsympathetic. 0.99

01:24:52.000 But I think ironically, they're just making the left look even stupider. 0.99

01:24:56.000 So I don't know. 0.98

01:24:57.000 You tune into the radio here.

01:24:59.000 There's people badmouthing Trump supporters. 1.00

01:25:01.000 You know, Trump supporters are moronic. 1.00

01:25:04.000 They're deplorable, etc. 1.00

01:25:06.000 You know, I mean, what better way to spark conversation with somebody than to throw them around the room?

01:25:11.000 But, yeah, and there's just all the Black Lives Matter stuff is coming over here as well.

01:25:16.000 You walk through the department store, and there's just all sorts of music about Black Lives this, Black Lives that.

01:25:22.000 Isn't it an African-American movement in the first place? 0.99

01:25:25.000 No, no, no.

01:25:26.000 That would be far too logical.

01:25:28.000 It's an Australian-African movement, I guess, as well.

01:25:32.000 We had that in Canada, too.

01:25:33.000 And kids would try and act like they were from the...

01:25:35.000 Well, Drake.

01:25:35.000 Well, I'm sure you know Drake.

01:25:36.000 Drake is a butter-soft bitch, half-Jewish kid from the nicest area of Toronto. 1.00

01:25:41.000 And now he talks like he's from Memphis. 0.99

01:25:43.000 It's like, that's fine if you want to take creative license, but it's not genuine.

01:25:47.000 And then they're so obsessed with being real, bro.

01:25:49.000 There's nothing less real.

01:25:51.000 Yeah.

01:25:53.000 It's a farce.

01:25:55.000 So this is a PSA. It's a far cry from kids don't play with blasting caps.

01:26:00.000 Now to pay those with vaginas more. 1.00

01:26:03.000 It's a PSA put out by a political party? 0.99

01:26:06.000 Just by the bank themselves.

01:26:08.000 In fact, they've pledged, I don't know how recent this was, it might have been last year, but they've pledged to deposit extra cash into the female employees of their company, I guess, to prove that they don't pay, discriminate, etc., etc.

01:26:22.000 I don't know.

01:26:23.000 I find all of it kind of divisive at the end of the day.

01:26:25.000 Yeah, and then the one male accountant at the end of the year going through the books. 0.98

01:26:28.000 What is all this redecorating costs?

01:26:31.000 What happened?

01:26:33.000 That's right.

01:26:33.000 Yes.

01:26:34.000 And you'll be guilty by association just from being on this program with that joke.

01:26:38.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:26:40.000 Sorry.

01:26:40.000 No, no, go ahead.

01:26:41.000 I was going to say, I did notice there was a feminist who was mad with you. 1.00

01:26:44.000 By the way, for people who haven't listened, is your YouTube channel just slash Pogo?

01:26:49.000 Yes.

01:26:50.000 Okay.

01:26:50.000 Slash Pogo.

01:26:51.000 By the way, good going getting that one quickly, because it seems like a lot of people would have been jockeying for Pogo.

01:26:57.000 That's right.

01:26:58.000 I had to go to court.

01:26:59.000 Yes.

01:26:59.000 There was one feminist who was mad.

01:27:02.000 Like, I liked Pogo until I found out how sickening his comments were about feminism. 0.75

01:27:07.000 And I remember watching any comments you've ever made about feminism on any program and read them in print, and they were all entirely reasonable. 0.62

01:27:14.000 Do you know who I'm talking about?

01:27:16.000 Is it just some random commenter or was it someone with a platform?

01:27:19.000 There's been more than one man.

01:27:21.000 I don't keep track.

01:27:23.000 I don't really care.

01:27:24.000 They never really engage me in a discussion anyway.

01:27:27.000 It's just, you know, misogynist this, misogynist that.

01:27:31.000 No, I don't know who you're talking about.

01:27:33.000 Sorry, what was the comment?

01:27:34.000 I don't know.

01:27:35.000 They were just saying that you were a horrible person for your comments about feminism. 1.00

01:27:38.000 This is all I remember because it's what spurred me to look.

01:27:41.000 I didn't have any ideas to what your opinions were.

01:27:43.000 And it's what spurred me to look up.

01:27:44.000 I was like, oh man, well maybe he said some really and I read it and I go, oh.

01:27:47.000 That's about what I think.

01:27:49.000 Right.

01:27:50.000 Yeah.

01:27:50.000 No, it's why I love watching your guys show.

01:27:52.000 I was there on the presidential election day.

01:27:54.000 I was up at like five o'clock in the morning.

01:27:55.000 You guys went all through.

01:27:56.000 You were streaming for like six hours.

01:27:58.000 What was it?

01:27:59.000 Seven?

01:27:59.000 Yes.

01:28:00.000 Yes.

01:28:00.000 It was a long time.

01:28:02.000 Yeah.

01:28:02.000 God, you guys were so tired.

01:28:05.000 But I remember getting up early because I wanted to see who was going to win.

01:28:08.000 Yeah.

01:28:08.000 And I just remember when Hillary didn't show face on stage and they brought someone out to say, go home, everybody, go back to bed.

01:28:14.000 It didn't look good.

01:28:15.000 It didn't look good for this.

01:28:16.000 We just laughed our asses off at that.

01:28:18.000 The most fun that night was tuning into the Young Turks stream at the same time, and they were just having a meltdown.

01:28:23.000 Yes, that was genius.

01:28:25.000 I don't know what copyright laws that violates.

01:28:28.000 You know, it's funny.

01:28:28.000 We were so tired.

01:28:29.000 The true story about that is, so we were across the country.

01:28:31.000 We were in a studio, you know, that old den studio.

01:28:34.000 And when we were done, my wife had already moved.

01:28:36.000 I was in that house, not gay, Jared knows, small house, completely empty.

01:28:40.000 I had a mattress on the floor and our studio, and that was it.

01:28:43.000 Oh my God.

01:28:44.000 And after that live stream, it was six something hours.

01:28:48.000 We tore down...

01:28:49.000 What was it, Jared?

01:28:50.000 Was it 4 a.m.?

01:28:51.000 It was...

01:28:52.000 Yeah, we tore down from like 2 to 4 a.m.

01:28:54.000 2 to 4 a.m.

01:28:54.000 And I just looked at the house and I was...

01:28:56.000 You know, it's sad memories of the house I got married in.

01:28:58.000 I looked and it was empty.

01:28:58.000 I said, you know what?

01:28:59.000 I can't do this.

01:29:00.000 And we never went to sleep.

01:29:01.000 Me and my friend drove another 16 hours.

01:29:05.000 Yeah, 16 hours.

01:29:07.000 That was that 24-hour cycle.

01:29:08.000 Took me like weeks to recover.

01:29:11.000 But I remember us sitting there going...

01:29:13.000 Can you believe this?

01:29:14.000 This election?

01:29:14.000 All of us were just not really in shock, but just sort of processing it.

01:29:18.000 Right.

01:29:19.000 Yeah, it was a big one.

01:29:20.000 But I've got to take my hat off to you guys.

01:29:21.000 I mean, you guys, I thought you stayed fairly neutral throughout the whole thing.

01:29:24.000 I didn't know who won until you guys let it go at the very end.

01:29:28.000 I think you did a really good job.

01:29:29.000 Well, thank you.

01:29:30.000 You know, I appreciate that.

01:29:30.000 And I think, you know, you made some comments, like you said, supporting Trump.

01:29:33.000 Here's something that I'm maybe concerned about, too, is obviously we weren't really pro-Trump in the primaries.

01:29:38.000 We didn't hate him.

01:29:39.000 Then when he was against Hillary Clinton, we tried to be somewhat objective, support him where we could.

01:29:43.000 I think and now there's these sort of two factions, right?

01:29:45.000 The social justice left where it's just everything is offensive.

01:29:48.000 But you're seeing this sort of breakout now on the Trump side where any criticism is met with this vitriolic anger as well.

01:29:56.000 And I think there are more people like me, Jared, and yourself who are like, well, he's not ideal, but I don't hate him.

01:30:04.000 Look, he's not the Sam Harris I would have preferred.

01:30:07.000 He's not the Christopher Hitchens I would have liked or the Richard Dawkins, but I don't know. 0.98

01:30:12.000 He's got a pair of balls on him, for Christ's sake. 0.97

01:30:14.000 Let's give him that. 0.99

01:30:16.000 He does.

01:30:17.000 He does.

01:30:18.000 He's an entertainer.

01:30:20.000 Yeah, I mean, I guess that's kind of – do you think that's kind of what it takes?

01:30:23.000 Do you think that's why Bernie kind of lost out? 1.00

01:30:25.000 I think Bernie lost out because he's a crazy person. 0.99

01:30:28.000 Fair enough. 0.99

01:30:30.000 It's funny.

01:30:31.000 So were you – you liked Bernie before Trump?

01:30:33.000 Was that your transition?

01:30:34.000 No.

01:30:34.000 No?

01:30:35.000 Okay.

01:30:35.000 I never even really – I didn't pay much attention to Bernie.

01:30:39.000 All I remember is someone stole one of his last rallies from him.

01:30:43.000 They stole the mic or something to that effect.

01:30:45.000 And that was more or less the end.

01:30:47.000 It was Black Lives Matter.

01:30:49.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:30:51.000 They just pushed him off.

01:30:53.000 Do you think the left is responsible for Trump?

01:30:58.000 Yeah, I do.

01:30:59.000 I really do.

01:31:00.000 And here's the thing, too.

01:31:00.000 I think they're really responsible because there's been so...

01:31:03.000 And I'm curious as to what it's like in Australia, if you see this happening now or if it's already happened.

01:31:07.000 They were so bad for so long and everything was racist, everything was sexist, everything was homophobic. 0.97

01:31:12.000 And we actually wrote an article and a lot of conservatives got mad with that famous remember Obama poster But it was replaced with Hillary instead of hope it said bitch and we said watch bitch is going to be the new n-word Because I used to say if you use the word socialist or anything or anti-american you secretly meant the n-word because you were racist and sure enough It was the switch when Hillary Clinton was the candidate where everyone who was racist overnight was now sexist and And I think that's what pushed people over the edge. 0.98

01:31:40.000 They voted.

01:31:40.000 They said, you know what?

01:31:41.000 Screw this.

01:31:42.000 I don't know.

01:31:42.000 Is that what you see there in Australia?

01:31:44.000 Kind of observing from afar?

01:31:45.000 Yeah.

01:31:45.000 Look, I was queuing up for a Big Mac at McDonald's and they had a big newspaper on the counter.

01:31:51.000 And you open up page three, so you just go three pages into it, and they're in like type size 20 or whatever it is, is like, it's a misogynist world.

01:31:59.000 I've never seen type as big as this, by the way.

01:32:02.000 And it's like, that's just somehow culturally, you know, okay. 0.86

01:32:06.000 And there's a picture of this old lady talking to these little girls at school about how much the world hates them because of their vaginas and, you know, how evil the world is towards women. 1.00

01:32:16.000 Right. 0.99

01:32:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:32:17.000 Every time I look at this stuff, I just think, you know, you couldn't be more divisive if you tried.

01:32:21.000 You couldn't be more counterintuitive to attaining equality if you were paid to do it.

01:32:26.000 It's just, it's crazy.

01:32:28.000 And ironically, they say hate. 0.99

01:32:29.000 I mean, vaginas are one of our favorite things. 1.00

01:32:31.000 So it's just... 0.99

01:32:33.000 That's right. 0.86

01:32:34.000 They take something that should be the great uniter and somehow turn it into an evil animal with nasty pointy teeth. 0.92

01:32:42.000 Yeah.

01:32:42.000 Now it's the wedge between the sexes.

01:32:44.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

01:32:45.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:32:46.000 And in need of a wedge sometimes.

01:32:49.000 So we're talking about, in Australia, what are your political parties like?

01:32:53.000 Where I was from in Quebec, I'm always curious.

01:32:54.000 In Quebec, we had liberals, like, really, and then we had liberal separatists, because they always wanted to separate from Canada.

01:32:59.000 Does Australia really even have, like, a true conservative wing or libertarian wing? 0.86

01:33:06.000 Again, I'm pretty ignorant with this.

01:33:09.000 I think we have a party called Greens, which is kind of the liberal side of things. 0.82

01:33:14.000 Okay.

01:33:15.000 And then we also have Labour.

01:33:17.000 Okay.

01:33:18.000 Do you guys have a Labour Party there?

01:33:20.000 No.

01:33:21.000 I'm pretty sure Labour is still, like, pretty far left.

01:33:24.000 That would be, like, really pro-union and kind of socialism, I would imagine.

01:33:27.000 Right.

01:33:28.000 Okay.

01:33:28.000 So, I mean, but I don't know.

01:33:30.000 I mean, there's certain things, you know, for example, I mean, Australians would look at Americans and think we're super far right wing, but our corporate tax rate is, is it 36%, 37%?

01:33:38.000 It's way, way higher than Australia.

01:33:41.000 So the politicization that breaks out geographically sometimes...

01:33:44.000 You know, people just like, oh, Americans are right wing with over a 30% corporate tax rate. 0.83

01:33:48.000 That's ridiculous to Australians. 1.00

01:33:51.000 Do you know what the income tax rates are in Australia? 0.98

01:33:53.000 Do you have any idea?

01:33:55.000 Well, my dad pays about 50%.

01:33:57.000 He's in medicine.

01:33:59.000 He does radiology and he pays at least half of his income away.

01:34:02.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

01:34:03.000 And do you still have a lot of people saying it's not fair and they want to take more?

01:34:08.000 Oh, sure.

01:34:09.000 No, look, the socialists are on their way for sure.

01:34:09.000 Yeah.

01:34:11.000 People want to get more for doing less.

01:34:13.000 And I don't like it.

01:34:15.000 I don't like it at all.

01:34:17.000 Have you always been this way?

01:34:18.000 Because it's clear that you have a very clear work ethic.

01:34:20.000 I mean, from just the output, it's clear that you work really hard.

01:34:24.000 Have you always sort of leaned this way of rugged individualism or did it happen later in life?

01:34:31.000 Yeah, it didn't really happen until I guess the early 20s.

01:34:34.000 I don't think you really know how the world works at the age of 20.

01:34:37.000 We've just elected someone into parliament here at the age of 20.

01:34:40.000 Really?

01:34:42.000 It's like the Doogie Howser of politics.

01:34:42.000 Yeah.

01:34:44.000 Holy crap. 0.98

01:34:45.000 Yeah, that's it. 0.99

01:34:46.000 That's it.

01:34:47.000 Yeah, I always believe very strongly in personal accountability.

01:34:52.000 Taking ownership of, you know, your choices and your actions.

01:34:56.000 I've always believed in that.

01:34:57.000 So, I guess, like, is there such...

01:34:59.000 Could you...

01:35:00.000 Like, can you be a conservative libertarian?

01:35:03.000 Or is that kind of counter...

01:35:05.000 No.

01:35:06.000 No, absolutely.

01:35:06.000 Yeah.

01:35:07.000 I mean, libertarian is considered very much a part of the conservative wing.

01:35:10.000 Now, why do you ask that?

01:35:11.000 Do you think of libertarian as kind of center-left?

01:35:14.000 Well, they're kind of switching places at the moment, aren't they?

01:35:16.000 I mean, I'm finding that...

01:35:20.000 Like, classic libertarianism is no longer trendy.

01:35:22.000 Right.

01:35:23.000 Yeah.

01:35:24.000 It's kind of been replaced with sort of populism, like the Trumpism kind of thing, and it's certainly not libertarian.

01:35:30.000 It's certainly not small government.

01:35:32.000 But it's funny that you ask that, because I think here in the United States, everyone kind of unilaterally thinks of libertarian as more conservative.

01:35:40.000 I think fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

01:35:43.000 That's kind of how I was always described.

01:35:44.000 They think of them pretty much as conservatives who want to smoke pot.

01:35:46.000 Yeah, gay marriage, pot, whatever, but don't tax me. 0.77

01:35:51.000 Yeah, that's about it.

01:35:53.000 Does that exist in Australia, like libertarians?

01:35:56.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:35:57.000 Yeah, pretty much.

01:35:58.000 That's pretty much where the Greens are coming in.

01:36:00.000 Oh, okay.

01:36:01.000 They're just losing their seats to 20-year-olds.

01:36:03.000 Yeah, too often it goes far left.

01:36:05.000 You know, there's a really interesting thing that happened to me the other day.

01:36:07.000 Have you guys heard of the Dakota Access Pipeline project?

01:36:10.000 Yeah, Dakota Access Pipeline.

01:36:12.000 What's her name from the Guide to Your Stars?

01:36:18.000 That girl, the Insurgent series.

01:36:19.000 That girl, that actress. 0.99

01:36:21.000 Oh, Shane Lillard.

01:36:21.000 She was showing up and protesting like a semi-retard.

01:36:24.000 Continue.

01:36:25.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

01:36:26.000 But anyway, I got emailed by the people protesting whose families were getting arrested by the cops for, I guess, you know, holding a production, getting in the ways of contracted work, sabotaging equipment.

01:36:37.000 And they asked me, can you make some kind of, you know, track about this?

01:36:41.000 Like, can you maybe remix?

01:36:42.000 Like, if I send you footage of the guys protesting, can you remix it and help raise awareness of this?

01:36:48.000 And I'm kind of two minds about it.

01:36:50.000 This is kind of where I'm on the fence because one of the – I don't know if you guys have seen my whole World Remix project where I take a camera and a mic into the real world and I do what I do with movies but with people and with cultures.

01:37:01.000 And one of the first things I thought of doing was doing Native American culture, like finding a campfire, like the classic sort of Red Indian tribes and doing a remix around that.

01:37:10.000 And I thought, well, I'd like to do something like this, but I don't know how I feel about putting, you know, political agenda behind music.

01:37:10.000 Right.

01:37:17.000 Right.

01:37:17.000 I think music needs to stay a universal language.

01:37:20.000 And I can't stand this new like far left hip hop that I'm hearing on the radio now.

01:37:25.000 Cough, Beyonce, lemonade, cough.

01:37:27.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:37:29.000 That's it.

01:37:29.000 Yeah, it's just nuts.

01:37:31.000 But that's pretty much going ahead now, right?

01:37:33.000 That project is pretty much great.

01:37:34.000 Yeah, yeah, it is, which is fantastic.

01:37:36.000 By the way, Beyonce's in the Illuminati.

01:37:38.000 That's the real problem there.

01:37:39.000 Get your facts correct.

01:37:40.000 We meet on Tuesdays.

01:37:42.000 Yeah, I... You know, I don't have a problem with it as long as people accept the consequences.

01:37:48.000 But it's a little different because I come from the world of comedy.

01:37:51.000 You know, particularly while I was an actor first in stand-up comedy in my mid-teens, did that really up until sort of Fox and the news thing.

01:37:58.000 In stand-up comedy, it's sort of expected for you to fillet yourself in a way where you open up about your opinions.

01:38:04.000 You know, some people get away without doing it.

01:38:07.000 But most comedians I know at least dabble in the realm of politics and culture.

01:38:11.000 With music, I think with comedy, people are going in to hear your thoughts on the world.

01:38:17.000 With music, often, I think like films, they're going to escape the world.

01:38:21.000 So I think maybe you're right on that.

01:38:23.000 But I do think, you know, there's also the other part of me that says everyone else is doing it.

01:38:27.000 So I wouldn't mind seeing Pogo dip his toe into the water.

01:38:30.000 Yeah, I know what you mean.

01:38:32.000 Yeah.

01:38:34.000 Yeah, I tried to keep the Trumpular piece as neutral as I could because I didn't know if he was going to win or not, and I didn't really want to lose any followers.

01:38:41.000 Pogo does pay my bills.

01:38:42.000 I want to be careful.

01:38:43.000 Sure.

01:38:44.000 And I have actually...

01:38:46.000 I did get a prospective client wanting me to make a Bernie Sanders remix, and I was like, let me get back to you on that.

01:38:54.000 Not a very melodic voice, either.

01:38:57.000 It'd be tough to work with.

01:38:58.000 One percent!

01:38:59.000 Oh, God.

01:39:00.000 Yeah, that's it.

01:39:01.000 I have to get the auto-tune on maximum.

01:39:03.000 But I have to kind of walk a tightrope.

01:39:07.000 And one of the things that I have found recently is that there's a line between, like...

01:39:12.000 Your art and yourself as a person.

01:39:14.000 Sure.

01:39:15.000 Like, if you go onto my SoundCloud and you like my stuff, you retweet it, you post it, you comment on it, it's got nothing to do with me, really.

01:39:23.000 Like, I'm actually very different from my music.

01:39:26.000 Like, you listen to Alice and Wishery, you think of someone who's light and fluffy and bubbly and optimistic.

01:39:29.000 I'm actually kind of the opposite in a lot of ways.

01:39:31.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:39:31.000 At least I have been since my balls dropped. 0.97

01:39:33.000 Yes. 0.99

01:39:34.000 My s*** has changed. 0.98

01:39:35.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:39:36.000 Well, hold on. 0.99

01:39:37.000 Let's not put s*** balls in the same sentence. 0.99

01:39:39.000 That just creates a visual that no one needs. 0.98

01:39:41.000 No, that's wrong.

01:39:43.000 No, it doesn't surprise me though.

01:39:45.000 Really creative people, and I mean, clearly you are, tend to be conflicted because, you know, you can't tell someone to, you know, and that's one thing you talked about with Tommy Sotomayor on social media, right?

01:39:54.000 You were talking about sort of shutting off social media, and I know a lot of people say, don't be so sensitive.

01:39:59.000 I would imagine it's pretty hard for someone to tell you that because there has to be a hypersensitivity to be able to watch a film that everyone else just watches and says that's a good movie and create an entire song and melody out of it.

01:40:12.000 You have to be more sensitive than the average person to be creative.

01:40:16.000 Right.

01:40:17.000 Don't be more sensitive.

01:40:18.000 I don't remember that reaction.

01:40:20.000 Well, I just mean, as far as online, like when people say, you know, you're like, well, if you look at social media, it can be toxic.

01:40:25.000 And you'll get people on social media, if ever we mention those things, like, ah, who cares?

01:40:29.000 People insult you online.

01:40:31.000 Who cares?

01:40:31.000 Don't be sensitive.

01:40:32.000 It's like, well, yeah, but everyone has a reaction.

01:40:35.000 It doesn't mean you're hypersensitive or offended.

01:40:38.000 It's just, as a creative person, you're going to react to people responding to your art.

01:40:43.000 I don't think it's got anything to do with sensitivity.

01:40:45.000 I think we have a culture now in which you've got your self-image in a smartphone.

01:40:48.000 You've got your self-worth in your pocket, in a slab.

01:40:52.000 And that's not just the sensitive ones of us, that's everybody.

01:40:55.000 And my angle was, you know, it'd be nice to try and cut back on that.

01:40:59.000 You know, instead of going for likes and retweets, how about we go for hugs and kisses and human connections for a change, you know, back in the good old days.

01:41:06.000 That was my angle about it.

01:41:08.000 Yeah.

01:41:09.000 Well, I think it's a good point.

01:41:10.000 And I think it's tough because obviously you also make your living through this sort of, you know, there's no more gatekeepers with social media.

01:41:16.000 Absolutely.

01:41:17.000 It's a big conflict.

01:41:18.000 Yeah.

01:41:19.000 How do you balance that?

01:41:20.000 Sorry.

01:41:21.000 How do you balance that?

01:41:24.000 Geez, I don't know.

01:41:25.000 Well, I haven't been on Facebook in two weeks now, like I said in my vid.

01:41:29.000 It's been great.

01:41:29.000 I kind of find, I don't know, Facebook is just a torrent of memes and gifs.

01:41:33.000 You know, it's just people hungry for social validation.

01:41:36.000 You know, three seconds of ha-ha here and there.

01:41:38.000 I find no substance in it at all.

01:41:40.000 And I'd be less insulted if you wrapped your lips around a revolver than thumbed through it in front of me.

01:41:45.000 You know what I mean?

01:41:46.000 I find that offensive.

01:41:49.000 I really do. 0.81

01:41:50.000 I've made an effort to make a connection with you and you're just thumbing through pictures of your mates shitting into a blender. 0.93

01:41:57.000 Maybe the problem is your friends. 0.96

01:42:00.000 Yeah, well, that's just it.

01:42:01.000 It's like, are these my friends anymore or are they like pixel pals?

01:42:04.000 Right.

01:42:05.000 I don't know.

01:42:06.000 We're just kind of crossing over into a digital age.

01:42:08.000 I don't know if I like the direction.

01:42:10.000 I don't know if I like the culture.

01:42:11.000 I think if I could go at it physically, I'd go at it with a flamethrower strapped to a pulse rifle.

01:42:16.000 I don't like it.

01:42:18.000 At the same time, I think it's great.

01:42:20.000 It's obviously really useful.

01:42:23.000 I'll be the first to put my hand up and say I've met a lot of people through it.

01:42:27.000 And without Pogo and without social media, I don't know where I'd be socially.

01:42:32.000 But it's becoming toxic.

01:42:33.000 It's becoming a dependency.

01:42:35.000 Like I said, you've got your self-worth in a can now.

01:42:37.000 If you don't get likes and thumbs up from this construction of your self-image, you take that away.

01:42:42.000 It's like, oh, am I valid as a person?

01:42:44.000 Am I good?

01:42:44.000 Am I likable?

01:42:45.000 You're still tugging on your mother's dress like you did as a child.

01:42:48.000 Right.

01:42:49.000 Yes.

01:42:49.000 And I think we see that not only with social media, but this culture of, like you said, likes, clicks, fame.

01:42:55.000 I mean, I think that's why this Milo thing has been so hard to watch, disregarding the opinions, is his entire identity was wrapped up in how much controversy he could generate or how many people were paying attention.

01:43:07.000 And so, you know, obviously I'm a Christian.

01:43:09.000 I imagine when you talk about Dawkins and stuff, we differ on that.

01:43:11.000 But man, I've been praying for the guy because I'm like, I know that he's the kind of guy where this will probably be harder for him than anyone else because that is his identity.

01:43:20.000 Just like taking if someone were banned from Facebook where they spend all day on Facebook, it'd be way worse than your aunt Tilly who checks it every couple of weeks.

01:43:29.000 And that's one negative I might say about Donald Trump, is that culture of kind of celebrity, right?

01:43:34.000 And the retweets and the controversy.

01:43:36.000 I think that could exacerbate it.

01:43:39.000 Yes, I'm with you on that.

01:43:40.000 Yeah, I don't think Trump should be on Twitter nearly as much as he is.

01:43:43.000 I don't think he's helping himself there.

01:43:46.000 He made the comment once, it's like having your own personal newspaper, which I get. 1.00

01:43:49.000 But it does kind of sort of project a certain narcissism about the guy, which I don't think helps him at all.

01:43:56.000 No, I don't think it helps them at all.

01:43:58.000 And like you said, it's a great thing.

01:43:59.000 I mean, there are no gatekeepers anymore, right?

01:44:01.000 We're able to get this show out to people and we do really well and everyone makes a living.

01:44:05.000 That's it.

01:44:06.000 But you know what the truth is?

01:44:07.000 Most people, like if you see in your comment section, most people watch a video or they listen to a track and if they like it, Mm-hmm.

01:44:31.000 That's right.

01:44:32.000 Yeah.

01:44:33.000 Yeah.

01:44:33.000 You got to be careful when you take feedback from these things.

01:44:35.000 It's like, when I get a compliment on my music, am I taking that, like, am I going to store that in myself or am I going to store that in Pogo?

01:44:43.000 Right.

01:44:43.000 Because really, 99.9% of my followers, maybe your followers as well, maybe more than 99.9%, they don't...

01:44:50.000 They don't know you as a person.

01:44:51.000 They don't know you as a friend.

01:44:52.000 They know you as a brand.

01:44:54.000 So you have to separate yourself from your brand.

01:44:56.000 And I've found that quite difficult.

01:44:58.000 I've actually gone through a few different Facebook accounts.

01:44:59.000 I did delete a Twitter account once because of the backlash on things that I then took personally.

01:45:05.000 You have to learn how to separate yourself from it.

01:45:07.000 It's a challenge sometimes.

01:45:09.000 It is a challenge.

01:45:10.000 It is a challenge because you want that engagement, but you also want what's best for people.

01:45:14.000 And you know that it's not healthy for them to be constantly engaged in flame wars or comment wars.

01:45:21.000 You know, we have some people who are super regular listeners and obviously Mug Club members. 0.99

01:45:25.000 We're incredibly grateful.

01:45:25.000 But I'll see them like arguing in the comment section all the time.

01:45:29.000 And I've sent a couple messages like, listen, man, thanks.

01:45:31.000 I appreciate it.

01:45:32.000 But don't feel like you need to take this on.

01:45:34.000 I mean, you know, Go outside, take a breather, and that's effectively telling them to do the opposite of what we need for revenue, and it's a challenge.

01:45:42.000 Yeah, that's a conflict of interest for sure.

01:45:45.000 I know what that's like, yeah.

01:45:46.000 No, I was definitely cleared into the whole Milo controversy recently.

01:45:49.000 I think I saw some kind of live feed on Facebook about his comments.

01:45:53.000 And the comments in the Facebook live feed were just toxic as hell.

01:45:58.000 No one's interested in discussion. 0.99

01:46:00.000 It's just Milo's a pedophile this, Milo's a pedophile that. 0.99

01:46:03.000 There's no debate happening. 0.99

01:46:05.000 There's no discussion happening.

01:46:07.000 And in an environment like that, I'm not surprised someone like Trump won.

01:46:10.000 Yeah, that's a good point.

01:46:12.000 And with the Milo thing, we discussed it on the show Behind the Paywall because, A, we have a longer show.

01:46:18.000 We can do it with more nuance.

01:46:20.000 We know people who are there are people who are typically more informed and more willing to listen to an opinion.

01:46:26.000 We spoke with Chad with AIDS, our friend who actually was molested as a teenager, who spoke about the issue.

01:46:32.000 And what it came down to with us was, listen, I mean, I know Milo, we had him on the show back when he had a few thousand Twitter followers.

01:46:38.000 I think it came down to two things.

01:46:40.000 Okay, was it a joke?

01:46:41.000 I don't think anyone was offended by the joke.

01:46:43.000 Or was it advocacy?

01:46:44.000 And if you look at the comments in their full context, you can certainly see the argument that it was advocacy.

01:46:51.000 And then it comes down to, okay, what's your opinion on a relationship between a grown man and a 13-, 14-, 15-year-old?

01:46:57.000 And is it consistent with what your position was yesterday, you know, with Lena Dunham?

01:47:01.000 Those were the questions people needed to ask themselves.

01:47:03.000 Instead, they got out the torches and pitchforks.

01:47:06.000 That's it.

01:47:06.000 Yeah.

01:47:07.000 Well, I might be wrong about it, but when he was talking about the benefits, quote-unquote, of a relationship between those two people, wasn't he referring to his own experience?

01:47:17.000 He was referring to his own experience and then later he said, we have all the clips on Monday's show, he said, I think the age of consent laws are about right.

01:47:26.000 But then people cut that context because he went on to say, though I think some people could be able to give consent younger like myself.

01:47:34.000 And if you look back, himself was I think 13 or 14 years old.

01:47:37.000 So it sounds like he's saying, he is saying there's some people who should be able to have sexual relationships at 13 or 14 years old in its full context.

01:47:44.000 I don't agree with that.

01:47:46.000 That's just my opinion.

01:47:47.000 Yeah.

01:47:48.000 No, I agree.

01:47:50.000 I was a bit gutted to see what he said and to see him going up and make an apology because I've always had this image of Milo as being a take no s*** from anybody kind of guy.

01:48:02.000 This is the first time he's ever apologized and I think he said he's going to be the last, didn't he?

01:48:06.000 Yeah, I wouldn't bet on that.

01:48:08.000 No.

01:48:09.000 I don't think the way Milo has existed can exist anymore in the future.

01:48:13.000 And that's the thing.

01:48:13.000 He has to come to grips with that and decide how to proceed.

01:48:16.000 I could be wrong.

01:48:18.000 But yeah, you know, I can still disagree with some of the things he said and still not be happy about the clear political hit job that it was, taking something from a year out.

01:48:27.000 You know, they could have just at that point brought it up, said this is wrong and dealt with it then.

01:48:31.000 The fact that they sat on it for a year tells me that, you know, there are people with agendas across the board.

01:48:36.000 That's right.

01:48:37.000 Yeah.

01:48:37.000 So you think it's 15 minutes of fame or up?

01:48:41.000 I don't know.

01:48:43.000 I mean, here's the thing.

01:48:44.000 I know that regardless of whoever agrees or disagrees with his opinion, it's going to be a really tough, clawing, pride-swallowing climb back up to the top, right?

01:48:54.000 Yeah.

01:48:55.000 And then if these people allow you on television, it's going to be you're one of many panelists because if you don't behave, you're out.

01:49:04.000 And so you can't be the guy who generates protests and controversy and still have that platform.

01:49:09.000 You know, in a difference kind of with what we do, we own all of our own platforms.

01:49:13.000 You know, we've had people offer to come in and we could have worked for, you know, other big sites, whether it's sites like Breitbart or other conservative sites.

01:49:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:49:19.000 We opted not to.

01:49:21.000 And so when you're an employee, you have that stripped from you.

01:49:24.000 I don't know.

01:49:25.000 I don't know what he has in his savings account to bet on himself and bankroll himself right now.

01:49:29.000 I'd like to see him do something, but it's going to be a process.

01:49:33.000 Absolutely.

01:49:34.000 Yeah, I think he's...

01:49:37.000 There's some people saying, oh, Breitbart's actually kind of brushed him out.

01:49:40.000 They've actually swept him out.

01:49:41.000 It's not his resign, but I don't know.

01:49:44.000 Yeah, there's always some of that.

01:49:46.000 When we were in the studio, we talked about that.

01:49:49.000 Edward the Sound Guy said, did you hear Milo's having a speech today?

01:49:53.000 He's giving a press conference?

01:49:54.000 I said, no, no, I know from behind the scenes Breitbart's giving a conference.

01:49:57.000 And then I found out that his was like a half hour earlier.

01:50:00.000 I said, this is an arms race for someone to say either you're fired or I resign.

01:50:04.000 And I mean, again, that's ego on both sides.

01:50:07.000 And that's not a healthy way to make a decision.

01:50:09.000 That's right.

01:50:10.000 Yeah.

01:50:11.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:50:12.000 Yeah, I know.

01:50:12.000 We can get off the mouth.

01:50:13.000 It's tough.

01:50:14.000 But, you know, it's tough ego right in this age.

01:50:15.000 I mean, someone like you is as successful as you are, and you show up to DJ, and you have all these people showing up because they're fans of yours.

01:50:22.000 I think there's nothing more corrosive to the human spirit than success, right?

01:50:26.000 Because you can see that.

01:50:27.000 Yeah, I agree.

01:50:27.000 And just coast.

01:50:30.000 Yeah, success is your worst enemy.

01:50:31.000 I've heard it said before.

01:50:33.000 And your potential is your worst enemy, too.

01:50:36.000 How is that potential is your worst enemy?

01:50:38.000 That's interesting.

01:50:39.000 Well, because you're always...

01:50:43.000 It's actually a line from Star Trek Next Gen, actually.

01:50:47.000 Someone said...

01:50:48.000 You thought it was like a Richard Dawkins quote for a second there.

01:50:54.000 No, it...

01:50:56.000 It was something to the...

01:50:57.000 I think if someone was saying it to Wesley, like, you know, your own potential is going to be your worst enemy because you know how much better you can be.

01:51:07.000 Did you see the Whiplash movie with J.K. Simmons?

01:51:10.000 J.K. Simmons and...

01:51:11.000 Well, hold on a second.

01:51:12.000 Naki Jared hates Miles Teller.

01:51:15.000 He hates...

01:51:16.000 I don't know why, but...

01:51:17.000 Slowly coming around.

01:51:18.000 Yeah, the drummer.

01:51:19.000 Why?

01:51:20.000 I don't know.

01:51:21.000 There's something personal, I think.

01:51:22.000 What happened with him?

01:51:23.000 He looks like a thumb.

01:51:24.000 I don't know.

01:51:25.000 Okay.

01:51:25.000 It bothers me.

01:51:26.000 Not a valid criticism.

01:51:27.000 Okay, but back to Pogo.

01:51:28.000 He's our guest.

01:51:29.000 I heard it was fantastic.

01:51:31.000 Continue.

01:51:32.000 No, I was saying, when I was talking about potential, I instantly thought of Whiplash, because that whole movie is about, you know, the worst two words you can say to anybody with aspiration is, good job.

01:51:44.000 Because the moment you pat someone on the back and say, okay, that's great, it's incentive to stop trying.

01:51:49.000 It's incentive.

01:51:50.000 If someone said good job to Buddy Rich, would he have been Buddy Rich?

01:51:53.000 And same thing with Louis Armstrong.

01:51:55.000 And I think that's kind of what the guy meant when he said to Wesley in Star Trek, you know, your potential is your worst enemy.

01:52:02.000 It's always going to be two steps ahead of you.

01:52:03.000 You'll never get to where you want to be.

01:52:07.000 But I guess you kind of have to use that as motivation at the same time.

01:52:10.000 And I can't abide mediocrity in anything.

01:52:13.000 That's why I never listen to mainstream music.

01:52:16.000 I turn the radio off every time I get in the taxi or a car.

01:52:19.000 Do you think it's all pretty mediocre today?

01:52:21.000 I think it's formulated.

01:52:23.000 There's an average of 13 producers behind every mainstream pop track now.

01:52:28.000 It's formulated.

01:52:30.000 It's 12 guys getting into a boardroom and piecing it together.

01:52:34.000 It's awful.

01:52:34.000 Okay, now that we're getting more kind of philosophical, here's a question for you.

01:52:37.000 I've asked several people before, particularly the high-level athletes and high performers that we've had in this show.

01:52:42.000 Since we're talking about potential, what is it that bothers you more?

01:52:46.000 What do you think is harder to swallow?

01:52:47.000 And it may take time to think about it.

01:52:49.000 When you've done everything that you could, when you've worked as hard as you possibly could, and you still came up short, or is it harder when you look back on a mistake that you know you made and could have avoided?

01:53:03.000 I'd say it's...

01:53:05.000 Yeah, that is a thinker.

01:53:06.000 That's a thinker for sure.

01:53:08.000 Well, I don't know.

01:53:09.000 Like, in the case of the Data Picard thing, I had to get to a stage where I was like, okay, the tunic looks a bit s*** in this shot, but I've spent the past four weeks, almost all day, every day working on this.

01:53:19.000 I have to just say, this is okay.

01:53:22.000 Because, like, in someone in your position or someone in my position who do this thing for a living, like, we're good at what we do.

01:53:31.000 So your idea...

01:53:34.000 Right.

01:53:36.000 idea of, you know, mediocre is probably most people's idea of decent.

01:53:41.000 So, you know, there's perfecting something and then there's getting it out there.

01:53:46.000 Right.

01:53:46.000 And the problem I've always had is I want to perfect it.

01:53:48.000 I want to get it perfect.

01:53:49.000 And I've got so many projects I haven't finished because of that mindset.

01:53:52.000 Yeah.

01:53:53.000 Well, it's funny because you still finish a lot of projects.

01:53:55.000 Actually, NotGayJar was talking about how fantastic the lighting was in Data Picard.

01:53:58.000 Yeah, the green screen lighting was on point.

01:54:00.000 Yeah, you match that.

01:54:01.000 I mean, our green screen is just total crap with reflection of green and stuff, but because we work in news, we're like, we've got to get it out today!

01:54:07.000 Otherwise, the story's done.

01:54:08.000 That's the first thing I know is I'm like, man, you put a lot of time to this.

01:54:11.000 No, no, no.

01:54:12.000 Your thing is, yeah, the data Picard, people who haven't seen it, you matched the lighting of the environments, which is very hard for professional lighting crews to do in big budget films.

01:54:22.000 That's not easy to do.

01:54:23.000 Yeah.

01:54:24.000 Look at this.

01:54:25.000 Look at this.

01:54:25.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:54:26.000 Stop being the bullshit humble. 1.00

01:54:27.000 Look at this. 1.00

01:54:28.000 For people who aren't watching this, look at this.

01:54:30.000 That looks like he's outside there.

01:54:31.000 That's a green screen.

01:54:32.000 It looks like he's out there in the desert in front of those rocks and whatever this—I'm not a nerd.

01:54:36.000 I don't know what this starship thing is, but some kind of spaceship.

01:54:39.000 That really is—look at this, Jared.

01:54:42.000 Yeah.

01:54:42.000 That's very difficult.

01:54:43.000 People pay a pretty penny to hire people, and I know them who can make that lighting work.

01:54:51.000 Well, it took a hell of a long time.

01:54:53.000 Many sleepless nights of having to reapply makeup and then it was getting all over my camera.

01:54:59.000 I had to hire the lights out like four nights in a row.

01:55:02.000 It was awful.

01:55:03.000 Do you guys have a crew when you do your vits?

01:55:05.000 Or is it like...

01:55:06.000 No, we do.

01:55:07.000 And that's why we have the whole Mug Club subscription.

01:55:10.000 It's less than $6 a month.

01:55:11.000 And a big reason for that is so we're not dependent on places like Google and pretty much Google as far as advertising, whether it's YouTube or on our website.

01:55:19.000 So it allows us, yeah, we have a bunch of people.

01:55:22.000 What do we have?

01:55:22.000 We have five, six people who work on the show.

01:55:24.000 Yep.

01:55:25.000 Five, six people and another four people on the website.

01:55:28.000 Yeah.

01:55:30.000 To put this regular amount of content, it requires more people.

01:55:35.000 And I'm not very skilled at those things.

01:55:38.000 Okay.

01:55:38.000 Well, Jared's your producer.

01:55:39.000 You seem to be in good shape.

01:55:42.000 Well, that remains to be seen.

01:55:46.000 Don't compliment him too much.

01:55:47.000 No, no, no, no.

01:55:49.000 No pat on the back for not KJ. Especially because he actually hasn't even accomplished anything of which he should be proud yet.

01:55:55.000 So it's not even me being disingenuous.

01:55:57.000 But that Data Picard thing, yeah, we watched it right away.

01:56:00.000 I mean...

01:56:01.000 You know, I went to film school, didn't finish.

01:56:03.000 My brother graduated UT Film with honors, and we were all watching it, going like, this is really, really well done.

01:56:08.000 So, hats off to you.

01:56:10.000 And that was a slow build.

01:56:10.000 That wasn't one of your most popular songs right away, and now it seems like it's gained traction.

01:56:15.000 Yeah, it has.

01:56:16.000 Thanks, man.

01:56:17.000 I really appreciate the kind words.

01:56:19.000 I'm glad you guys like it.

01:56:21.000 But yeah, it was a lot of fun.

01:56:23.000 I'd like to do one with the Joker in the future.

01:56:26.000 Everyone says, because I don't know if you've seen the Wizard of Mare vid, but I'd love to do that as the Joker.

01:56:31.000 Not the Heath Ledger Joker, no one's ever going to top that, but I think the Mark Hamill Joker from the cartoon series will be a lot of fun.

01:56:38.000 Yeah, also Mark Hamill in real life now looks like the Joker, so it came full circle.

01:56:42.000 Yes, it does.

01:56:44.000 That's some rough living Mark Hamill.

01:56:47.000 Oh my god.

01:56:48.000 Is he going to be in the next Star Wars film? 1.00

01:56:50.000 I hope he gets killed off. 0.99

01:56:53.000 Yeah, he's a big fan of his day. 1.00

01:56:56.000 Yeah, it's one of those things where you just watch it and you're sad.

01:56:59.000 You're like, oh, that's Luke Skywalker now.

01:57:01.000 They tacked him onto the end of The Force Awakens, didn't they?

01:57:05.000 It was there for like five seconds with what's-her-face. 0.98

01:57:07.000 I don't even remember.

01:57:08.000 I fell asleep at that movie.

01:57:09.000 Forgive me.

01:57:10.000 Not, G.J., what happened?

01:57:11.000 I think the universe took the right Skywalker, but they could have taken a Mark Hamill, too, probably.

01:57:15.000 Okay.

01:57:17.000 He's bound to be probably the weakest.

01:57:18.000 Carrie Fisher is by far the weakest link of that Star Wars movie, and I think he's bound to be the weakest link of the next one.

01:57:24.000 Uh-huh.

01:57:25.000 It's the age that's catching up to them.

01:57:27.000 Isn't Tarkin like CG in Rogue One?

01:57:29.000 Yeah.

01:57:29.000 That's what I've heard.

01:57:30.000 Yeah.

01:57:30.000 Who?

01:57:31.000 Tarkin, one of the main characters in the middle.

01:57:33.000 And actually, they did that wrong, too.

01:57:36.000 They shouldn't have.

01:57:37.000 Yeah.

01:57:38.000 It's obviously...

01:57:39.000 Like I'm playing Uncharted or something on PlayStation.

01:57:41.000 Yeah.

01:57:41.000 I don't know these things.

01:57:42.000 I have a wife.

01:57:44.000 So I... No, I just can't do it anymore.

01:57:49.000 I don't know.

01:57:50.000 It's like Call of Duty or Xbox games.

01:57:52.000 I feel like it requires so much engagement that I don't have the time for it.

01:57:56.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:57:57.000 That sucks all your time away.

01:57:58.000 I played World of Warcraft for seven weeks once to get up to level 19.

01:58:01.000 I looked back at my life and I was like, what have I actually accomplished?

01:58:04.000 What if I spent this time making videos?

01:58:06.000 Oh, God.

01:58:07.000 Yeah, or love.

01:58:08.000 Yeah.

01:58:08.000 So that's a rough few weeks when you look back like, oh gosh, I could have done this.

01:58:14.000 So here's something that's interesting, and then we have to go relatively soon.

01:58:17.000 You brought up Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins and who was the other guy?

01:58:22.000 Sam Harris.

01:58:22.000 So I assume you're an atheist.

01:58:25.000 I wouldn't call myself an atheist.

01:58:26.000 I just, I don't know.

01:58:28.000 Like, we live on this ball.

01:58:30.000 Like, we're living on this tiny rock in this minute little quadrant of the universe, and we have the arrogance to think we know how the universe came about and what's out there and what's behind it all.

01:58:40.000 I just prefer to keep an open mind than to go saying what is and isn't.

01:58:43.000 Right.

01:58:44.000 Okay.

01:58:45.000 So, well, the Earth is flat if you've been listening to Kyrie Irving lately, too.

01:58:48.000 Yeah.

01:58:48.000 Well, we learn about that at the two days when we're not even.

01:58:51.000 Yeah, it's the flat earth.

01:58:52.000 You can tell by the horizon.

01:58:54.000 Put a ruler up to it or a protractor.

01:58:56.000 It's something like that.

01:58:56.000 You know, we're scientists.

01:58:58.000 It's interesting that you say that because we have, you know, at one point it was this huge faction.

01:59:02.000 It was kind of like the left.

01:59:04.000 Really, the social justice warrior left used to be all these atheists sort of online, particularly on YouTube and places like that.

01:59:09.000 And their whole mission was just tar and feathering, hating, particularly Christians. 0.98

01:59:14.000 Let's not say religious people. 1.00

01:59:15.000 They don't care about Buddhists. 0.96

01:59:16.000 They don't care about Hindus. 0.97

01:59:17.000 Christians. 0.51

01:59:18.000 And we have a lot of people like yourself who watch our program.

01:59:22.000 And I'm pretty open about my faith, and we can always discuss it.

01:59:25.000 But it's still a very libertarian-minded faith.

01:59:28.000 This is what I believe.

01:59:29.000 This is how I live my life.

01:59:30.000 But I certainly don't want to legislate it, and I certainly don't want to proselytize people who have no interest in it.

01:59:37.000 So it's interesting that that's come full circle, because I think four years ago, someone like yourself would never have listened to me.

01:59:44.000 Well, I don't know.

01:59:46.000 Look, I was born a Christian.

01:59:47.000 I was raised a Christian by my mother.

01:59:49.000 She dragged me off to Sunday school and all that.

01:59:51.000 And I spent most of my teenage years believing in a God and thanking Him for my fortunes.

01:59:55.000 I would say, you know, if I do die one day and I get to heaven and there is a God and it's like, oh, this guy's responsible for all my success, I'd be feeling pretty shitty if, you know, I didn't pay my respects while I was alive.

02:00:08.000 But I don't know.

02:00:09.000 It's not that I don't believe in a God.

02:00:11.000 It's not that I do.

02:00:12.000 It's just I don't feel I have the information.

02:00:15.000 Well, yeah, and that's fine.

02:00:16.000 But my point is it's interesting that now we're able to have this conversation, right, at an intersect, whereas at one point, certainly online, it seemed like that was impossible.

02:00:24.000 It seemed like the divide between deists and agnostics and atheists, regardless of politics, like there's no way.

02:00:32.000 And now culturally, we have...

02:00:34.000 It's far more in common than the new atheist left. 0.83

02:00:37.000 And that's sort of an interesting development to me.

02:00:40.000 That's right.

02:00:41.000 Yeah.

02:00:41.000 In as much as social media has kind of pitted the sides against each other, it seems to have opened up a lot of room in the middle for meeting of minds, isn't it?

02:00:49.000 Yeah.

02:00:49.000 It's interesting.

02:00:50.000 I mean, we can talk, like we'll have Sargon of a cat on.

02:00:53.000 And I remember Sargon of a cat came on and said, you know, so many people hate you.

02:00:56.000 And I said, well, why is that? 0.78

02:00:57.000 He's like, you know, your crazy opinions, like you don't believe in evolution.

02:00:59.000 I said, that's not true.

02:01:00.000 And it's like, oh, well, crazy opinions, like you don't believe in climate change.

02:01:04.000 That's not true.

02:01:05.000 Oh.

02:01:05.000 Uh-huh.

02:01:06.000 Well, crazy opinions, like, and I'm like, this is the thing, because people just haven't listened to how we've expressed our opinions on here.

02:01:11.000 Right.

02:01:12.000 They assume this because it's easier to make the argument.

02:01:15.000 I think a lot of people of faith have been tossed into this one box, and now we have, I mean, we have atheists on the show all the time, and a huge portion of our audience are not conservatives, which is a big shift, I would say, what would you say, Jared?

02:01:26.000 Last year and a half?

02:01:27.000 Year and a half, yeah.

02:01:28.000 Year and a half, maybe two.

02:01:29.000 Yeah.

02:01:30.000 And we have the ability, all the analytics online, to see that.

02:01:33.000 So I wonder if you'll see that from the other side where, you know, not being political, just doing music, you might see a lot of your fan base become more...

02:01:40.000 I just think people are becoming actually more engaged in that, which is surprising because we thought it would be the opposite.

02:01:46.000 I agree.

02:01:47.000 I think people are losing interest in taking sides and pointing fingers and gaining interest in discussing and exchanging ideas.

02:01:55.000 I was pleasantly surprised by the feedback to the Trump video.

02:01:59.000 I thought for sure I'd lose subscribers.

02:02:01.000 I thought for sure I'd get thumbs down.

02:02:03.000 It's 90% thumbs up the last time I checked.

02:02:05.000 And the comments are just super supportive.

02:02:08.000 You know, people are just taking a chill pill for a change.

02:02:10.000 People are seeing the whole divide between left and right, far left, far right.

02:02:16.000 I think most people are starting to fall more.

02:02:20.000 Most people are I know are coming into the middle more, and I think it's really reassuring to see that.

02:02:43.000 not tolerated on the left.

02:02:44.000 It's like, oh, okay, I'm a centrist.

02:02:46.000 Well, actually, no.

02:02:47.000 It's just that the left won't discuss these ideas as a general rule.

02:02:50.000 Obviously, we're speaking in a generality.

02:02:51.000 There are exceptions at all.

02:02:53.000 And so we think of it as moderate.

02:02:55.000 But I mean, you know, for me, being really a pretty hardcore libertarian on most things, I'm not really in the center, but I'm able to meet people in the center.

02:03:04.000 Right, right.

02:03:06.000 Which, yeah, I totally get you.

02:03:08.000 Yeah, I'm definitely sort of right of center for sure.

02:03:10.000 I wouldn't call myself far right, but yeah, I've got conservative values for sure.

02:03:15.000 Well, it's just about the individual responsibility is the main thing, right?

02:03:18.000 If you believe in that...

02:03:19.000 For me, yeah.

02:03:20.000 It's just owning up to your own agency, and that's one of the things that I don't see feminists embracing, or socialists for that matter. 1.00

02:03:27.000 I think we have a culture now where it's about getting more and doing less, and I can't abide it.

02:03:31.000 I can't stand it.

02:03:32.000 Let me ask you this.

02:03:33.000 How old are you?

02:03:34.000 I'm 28.

02:03:35.000 Okay, you're 28.

02:03:35.000 So you're our age.

02:03:36.000 How tall are you, by the way?

02:03:37.000 Because you look very tall.

02:03:39.000 Well, you guys do inches there, right?

02:03:41.000 So I'm 185 centimeters.

02:03:43.000 What the hell is the conversion on that?

02:03:44.000 Sorry.

02:03:45.000 Oh, gosh.

02:03:46.000 You know what? 0.99

02:03:46.000 In Canada, they were arrogant bastards who claimed the metric, but they still would do like 6'1", 6'2". 0.99

02:03:50.000 They didn't do the height that way. 0.99

02:03:53.000 Hold on.

02:03:53.000 I'm not getting you as calculating it.

02:03:54.000 We're looking it up here.

02:03:55.000 We'll get back to you.

02:03:58.000 Let's take a stand.

02:03:58.000 Bye.

02:03:59.000 You're 28, and you talk about feminism a lot.

02:04:02.000 Are you dating?

02:04:04.000 Are you currently in a long-term relationship?

02:04:06.000 My interest is what the dating world is like for someone like you in the age of angry feminists. 1.00

02:04:12.000 Does that create a standoffish approach, somewhat of an atmosphere of fear?

02:04:16.000 I'm married, so I haven't been in it for a while.

02:04:18.000 Mm-hmm.

02:04:20.000 I think we, like, despite all the achievements that feminists claim to have made, we still live in a culture where the man initiates. 1.00

02:04:26.000 Okay.

02:04:26.000 Where the man provides.

02:04:28.000 I think, at least where I live, that's still very much the case.

02:04:30.000 Yeah.

02:04:31.000 You know, when you talk about...

02:04:33.000 If you want to talk about the courting game, I think it's still the guy that has to do all the proving.

02:04:37.000 You know, how much of a provider are you?

02:04:38.000 What sort of prospects have you got on the horizon?

02:04:40.000 What sort of house have you got?

02:04:40.000 What sort of job?

02:04:41.000 Like, what's your aspirations, etc.?

02:04:43.000 Girls just got to say yes or no. 1.00

02:04:44.000 The girl's got the Tinder profile. 0.99

02:04:46.000 The guy's got to do all the work.

02:04:47.000 Yeah.

02:04:48.000 And, um...

02:04:49.000 Yeah, I'm not having a grump about it, but it's still the way it is, and I'm not convinced feminism is working against that. 1.00

02:04:57.000 I think it might actually be supporting it. 0.99

02:04:59.000 Well, I think because more young women are not identifying as feminists, but I do wonder, you know, if we were dating right now, and you go home with someone, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, front page news, I'm accused of rape, damn it! 0.98

02:05:11.000 You know, that's the fear. 0.98

02:05:13.000 Pogo is six foot tall.

02:05:14.000 Pogo is six foot tall, okay.

02:05:16.000 Six foot tall, so there you go.

02:05:17.000 Six foot.

02:05:17.000 Pretty tall.

02:05:18.000 What's your heart, Steve?

02:05:20.000 I was 6'3 until I ruptured a disc, and now I'm 6'2 something.

02:05:24.000 Oh, wow. 1.00

02:05:25.000 You're a tall motherfucker. 1.00

02:05:26.000 Well, you know what it is? 1.00

02:05:27.000 I don't have a big head.

02:05:30.000 When I used to be on Fox, people like Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly, these guys, they have these massive heads.

02:05:34.000 Josh Brolin head.

02:05:35.000 Josh Brolin.

02:05:36.000 Josh Brolin's like 5'7".

02:05:37.000 Yeah, he's a little guy.

02:05:37.000 So I have a relatively...

02:05:39.000 I don't have a small head, but I don't have a massive head.

02:05:41.000 And so often when people meet me, they're like, oh, I thought you were a little guy.

02:05:44.000 Well, you know, these are the breaks.

02:05:46.000 Yeah.

02:05:47.000 You were saying about feminism. 0.96

02:05:49.000 My whole thing with feminism is I don't see how you can solve a conflict of interest between multiple parties by focusing almost solely on the interest of one. 1.00

02:05:58.000 To me, that just seems counterintuitive to the whole thing.

02:06:01.000 And the other angle they have is women have to be more masculine. 1.00

02:06:05.000 The whole culture we have now, as much as they want to feminize men, I see more and more women in my day-to-day life being very manly and being very masculine, and I don't find that attractive at all. 1.00

02:06:16.000 I'm that way, too.

02:06:17.000 And you know, it's funny.

02:06:18.000 As someone who's done combat sports, like in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, we'd have girls who are very pretty, and they would be grappling, and they'd be like, I'm just one of the guys. 0.96

02:06:26.000 And first off, they weren't.

02:06:26.000 It was like, I mean, we had world champions who, fantastic, right?

02:06:31.000 Black belts, and I'm a decent hobbyist, and it's just like, okay, we can pick them up and move them how we want them. 0.82

02:06:35.000 The strength differential, it's cute, right?

02:06:38.000 It's cute.

02:06:38.000 Right.

02:06:39.000 And then they'd want to be like, we're one of the guys.

02:06:41.000 And then they would want to date guys in class.

02:06:43.000 And it's like, that's cool, but that's not really what a guy is looking for.

02:06:47.000 I don't want my wife to share my opinion on sports or even films, necessarily.

02:06:50.000 I'm fine with her being girly and different.

02:06:52.000 That's attractive to me.

02:06:54.000 I agree.

02:06:54.000 They're trying to change a culture, and I don't think you can change a culture any more than you can change the weather.

02:07:00.000 Yes.

02:07:00.000 That's a good point.

02:07:01.000 I feel like you'd have a better chance at changing the weather than changing women. 1.00

02:07:05.000 Yeah.

02:07:06.000 Yeah.

02:07:07.000 Oh, actually, my wife will vehemently. 1.00

02:07:09.000 I just got an apology from her today.

02:07:11.000 That was rare.

02:07:12.000 Oh, yes.

02:07:12.000 Yes, we got into a discussion, and I have been very, very good about my anger issues.

02:07:17.000 And I was like, do you see what you're doing here?

02:07:20.000 She's like, what?

02:07:21.000 I said, you are arguing with the wall because I'm not going to do this.

02:07:24.000 And then I came back from the gym, and she said, you know what?

02:07:26.000 You were right.

02:07:27.000 It was illogical.

02:07:27.000 It was an issue that I was upset about.

02:07:29.000 I'm sorry.

02:07:30.000 And I was like, what?

02:07:35.000 But yeah, she's great.

02:07:37.000 It's one of those things too.

02:07:38.000 That's why I'm very – I'm not – nothing to do with same-sex marriage.

02:07:42.000 I'm very pro-marriage, which is rare for people our age because I think it's a great thing, A, to grow up.

02:07:47.000 I think it's a great thing for a man and a woman, provided you do it right and find the right person.

02:07:52.000 So I hope to see it make a comeback.

02:07:53.000 Because in Quebec, nobody got married.

02:07:55.000 I don't know what that's like in Australia.

02:07:56.000 But outside the US, in Quebec, it was just you'd shack up, live together, and it was considered the same thing.

02:08:02.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.96

02:08:04.000 I'm noticing more and more my friends are losing interest in relationships and getting more interested in shits and giggles. 0.96

02:08:10.000 I know what you mean. 0.69

02:08:11.000 The two weren't mutually exclusive.

02:08:13.000 That's right.

02:08:14.000 Okay, Pogo, what's next for you?

02:08:15.000 I mean, for people who are watching this, go check out the music of Pogo.

02:08:18.000 He does all of our bumps.

02:08:20.000 Hopefully one day he'll do a custom Lennon's Grinder bump.

02:08:22.000 Who knows?

02:08:23.000 What's next for Pogo?

02:08:25.000 I've got shows coming up in Perth, West Australia.

02:08:28.000 If it weren't for the whole US thing, I'd be playing them there with you guys.

02:08:31.000 It'll be awesome fun.

02:08:33.000 I've got Vivid Festival coming up in Sydney very soon, and I am working on another EP, which will be coming out on iTunes and Spotify shortly.

02:08:40.000 When can you come to the United States, finally?

02:08:43.000 2021, I think it is.

02:08:44.000 I'm past my 10-year ban period.

02:08:48.000 Now, for people who don't know, it wasn't really a horrendous crime.

02:08:50.000 You used the wrong work visa, right? 0.88

02:08:53.000 Yeah, that's right.

02:08:55.000 No, I didn't go smuggling crack or anything like that.

02:08:57.000 I did kind of sort of have the wrong work visa, it turned out. 0.97

02:09:01.000 I was too young and dumb to be doing what I did. 0.81

02:09:03.000 I made a bunch of cash without the right visa. 0.96

02:09:06.000 They found me at a border, I think, between Canada and the States.

02:09:09.000 I got in prison for three weeks.

02:09:12.000 Yeah, don't.

02:09:13.000 I know what you're thinking.

02:09:14.000 You're thinking like Shawshank Redemption.

02:09:16.000 Convict on this show!

02:09:17.000 What was it like?

02:09:20.000 That's it.

02:09:20.000 Close the stream.

02:09:22.000 And what melodies did that inspire?

02:09:26.000 It's where the Scarface track came from, for sure.

02:09:29.000 Hold on, what was that like?

02:09:30.000 Jail?

02:09:31.000 I mean, did you have a cellmate?

02:09:32.000 Were you safe?

02:09:34.000 I was alright.

02:09:35.000 I had a single self to myself for the most time, and they just opened you up into the population.

02:09:39.000 Yeah, they had to give me peanut butter sandwiches to help me keep my weight up because I was getting very thin.

02:09:44.000 Prison food is very, very minuscule.

02:09:47.000 But the worst part was not being in jail.

02:09:49.000 The worst part was just not knowing when you're going to get back out and all your friends and family are on the other side of the planet.

02:09:54.000 But I desperately want to get back there, man.

02:09:56.000 Nobody parties like you guys over there.

02:09:59.000 I had people jumping up on stage with me.

02:10:01.000 It was so much fun.

02:10:02.000 You guys get so into it.

02:10:03.000 I Lord, we should have led with that, Jared.

02:10:07.000 We've gone with in jail. 1.00

02:10:09.000 Damn it! 0.99

02:10:09.000 We talked about all this stuff nobody cares about. 0.99

02:10:11.000 Everyone wants to know what happened in jail.

02:10:15.000 You don't look like you would fare very well in a serious prison.

02:10:19.000 Well, I made sure not to drop the soap in the shower.

02:10:22.000 Just tell them you're Macklemore and see what happens.

02:10:27.000 Oh, God.

02:10:28.000 I do better.

02:10:29.000 So I would imagine you don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the illegal immigrants here who feel as though they're being oppressed by not being allowed to stay.

02:10:35.000 By the way, you used the wrong work visa.

02:10:37.000 They use no visa.

02:10:39.000 They walked across a stream.

02:10:42.000 Yeah.

02:10:43.000 I can't comment on immigration too much over there.

02:10:45.000 It's not really something I'm too familiar with.

02:10:47.000 No, not many people cross over the border there in Australia.

02:10:50.000 Kind of hard to get there.

02:10:52.000 Yeah.

02:10:53.000 Even if people come here by water, it's the Cubans and they're just on a floating bar stool because they'll take anything to get to the United States. 1.00

02:11:00.000 If someone washes up over there, it's because they're on MH370 and they finally found the damn plane. 0.94

02:11:07.000 Probably. 0.95

02:11:09.000 Alright, Pogo, we have to go, brother.

02:11:10.000 Where's the best place for people to find you?

02:11:12.000 You guys can check me out at YouTube.com forward slash Pogo and a whole bunch of tracks also go up to SoundCloud.com forward slash Pogo Mix.

02:11:20.000 Absolutely.

02:11:21.000 And people, please do support his stuff because the bigger he gets, the cooler we are for having copyrighted, copyright free music on our program.

02:11:30.000 And thank you so much, Pogo.

02:11:31.000 We'll have to have you back soon and talk more about the prison experiences.

02:11:35.000 Let's do it, man.

02:11:35.000 Thanks so much for having me.

02:11:36.000 I appreciate it.

02:11:37.000 Let's do it.

02:11:37.000 Stay tuned for more, which I don't know what it is.

02:11:39.000 I don't know what it is.

02:11:40.000 I don't know what it is.

02:11:41.000 Oh, no.

02:11:57.000 Little Jimmy, it appears you've contracted AIDS. Oh, man.

02:12:01.000 The good news is, Mug Club is scientifically proven to increase your enjoyment of life by 142%.

02:12:07.000 Oh, jeez.

02:12:08.000 So I'll be cured?

02:12:09.000 No, Jimmy. 0.98

02:12:10.000 You're still going to die very soon. 1.00

02:12:12.000 Shouldn't have engaged in all that unprotected homosexual intercourse. 1.00

02:12:15.000 Oh, that's such a bummer. 0.99

02:12:16.000 Action.

02:12:32.000 It pays to be prepared.

02:12:33.000 You don't need to be a doomsday prepper or conspiracy theorist.

02:12:36.000 It's worth it to have peace of mind.

02:12:38.000 And that's why right now, Laddworth Crudder has a promotion with preparewithcr.com, or you can go do this online at preparewithcr.com.

02:12:45.000 Or call 888-457-3453, where you can get your 30-day supply of emergency food, drink, dehydrated food for $99 shipped free.

02:12:56.000 That's at preparewithcr.com or call 888-457-3453.

02:13:03.000 Set it down somewhere in your basement, your den, and forget about it and just know that it's there if you need it.

02:13:13.000 Hey, hey, don't! 0.99

02:13:15.000 You won't speak unless spoken to.

02:13:18.000 I gotta go to the bathroom.

02:13:19.000 Use the bathroom bucket! 1.00

02:13:24.000 This way?

02:13:27.000 Yeah.

02:13:31.000 Yeah.

02:13:58.000 That's kata again. 0.89

02:14:05.000 I've been working on my kata.

02:14:07.000 Did anyone else, no one else in this room did martial arts when you were a kid?

02:14:10.000 No.

02:14:11.000 Never.

02:14:11.000 That was for nerds.

02:14:12.000 Oh my gosh.

02:14:13.000 We just said hi-yah and bounced around as Power Rangers and called it a day. 1.00

02:14:16.000 It was the stupidest thing in the world, kata. 1.00

02:14:17.000 And that was when I remember they would, you know, you're supposed to imagine you're pulling out the moves and you're doing it and then I knew this is why I'm going to get my ass kicked. 1.00

02:14:26.000 This clearly has no practical application in the real world. 0.94

02:14:30.000 Might have something to do with your words.

02:14:32.000 My words? 1.00

02:14:33.000 Getting your ass kicked. 1.00

02:14:35.000 I thought you meant my words in kata. 1.00

02:14:37.000 You're not supposed to speak during kata.

02:14:39.000 Kata is silent.

02:14:40.000 It is meditation in movement, Scott.

02:14:43.000 It's supposed to be seen, not heard.

02:14:44.000 I guess I don't teach that in Krav Maga.

02:14:48.000 It's not a refined art, Krav Maga.

02:14:52.000 They don't do kata. 0.61

02:14:53.000 They just launch rockets from 200 miles away.

02:14:59.000 Listen, I didn't plan on doing this today.

02:15:01.000 I had something else I wanted to talk about, but a pretty sad day for me.

02:15:05.000 Alan Combs.

02:15:06.000 I know a lot of people will be surprised.

02:15:07.000 Alan Combs passed away at 66 years old, and I certainly wouldn't say was a close friend of mine, but he was a friend.

02:15:14.000 He was certainly a working colleague.

02:15:16.000 And I think it's important that we recognize not only Alan Combs and what he did, but how things have changed.

02:15:23.000 Alan Combs was wrong on a lot of things.

02:15:26.000 And yeah, I remember him kind of insinuating the Tea Party was racist.

02:15:28.000 But Alan Combs was a much more classical liberal who at least would engage in a form of ideas.

02:15:35.000 I mean, think about it.

02:15:36.000 The show was Hannity and Combs.

02:15:38.000 And then they turned it into just Hannity, which... 0.68

02:15:42.000 A lot of people at Fox liked, because I remember people who would watch Fox News would just complain and say, Why do you have that, Combs?

02:15:48.000 I only want Hannity and the flag!

02:15:52.000 And I always liked, as you know with this show, I always liked, you saw with Michael Ian Black, I always liked hearing differing points of view.

02:15:58.000 I felt like it was more educational.

02:16:00.000 And Alan Combs was always willing to do that and often willing to defend free speech.

02:16:04.000 Here's a clip showing you why he was one of, in a way of speaking, one of the good guys.

02:16:10.000 In all the years I've worked there, since the launch of the channel in 1996, nobody has said, you can't say this, you can't do that.

02:16:16.000 And I have a lot of freedom there.

02:16:18.000 And also, I like the idea, and this is to liberals.

02:16:20.000 Many liberals have been my worst critics.

02:16:22.000 You've gotten some of that when you were there.

02:16:24.000 Yeah.

02:16:24.000 Because how dare you work there and take their money?

02:16:26.000 But look, why preach to the choir?

02:16:28.000 You reach more independents and even more Democrats on Fox News, given their huge audience, than you would on other networks.

02:16:33.000 So I'm grateful to have that opportunity to have that platform.

02:16:37.000 So, Alan Combs, on a personal level, I won't say, again, we weren't super close friends, but he did, you know, he went into bat for me on a couple of things.

02:16:45.000 After Hannity and Combs, the show, he was such a good guy that they kept him at the network.

02:16:49.000 And really, they didn't have a show for him, but he was a contributor.

02:16:52.000 He had a radio show, and I used to do that pretty frequently.

02:16:55.000 On Friday night, it was a Royal Rumble, and he was hilarious.

02:16:58.000 He was a very funny guy. 0.90

02:16:59.000 I remember he would just go to his phone calls, and he would just go, okay, line two, Alan Combs, you suck, and you, okay, line three, clear. 0.81

02:17:06.000 And, you know, that's actually where I met Sally Cohn. 0.97

02:17:10.000 Yep.

02:17:10.000 Oh, really?

02:17:10.000 I met Sally Cohn on Alan Combs' show on a Friday night.

02:17:15.000 I remember during the fall and late at night I went into the Fox News studio, met Sally Cohn.

02:17:20.000 And, you know, that was one thing that Alan Combs was actually able to do.

02:17:24.000 He was actually able to bring people into a room and you don't see this a lot, by the way.

02:17:28.000 If you go to MSNBC or you hear people who've worked at MSNBC or even people at CNN, certainly on the left side, they don't talk about how, oh, man, you'd have so many people with different points of view and they would just be in a room together and have a couple of beers afterward and have a good time, particularly at MSNBC.

02:17:42.000 This is inside baseball, but I knew this for a long time.

02:17:45.000 People who worked there, they were not friends.

02:17:47.000 It was not a friendly atmosphere.

02:17:49.000 And Alan Combs was one of the few people on the left who really did have a gift for that.

02:17:54.000 People who knew him, loved him.

02:17:55.000 He was funny.

02:17:56.000 He was loyal.

02:17:57.000 He was kind.

02:17:59.000 He helped a lot of people.

02:18:00.000 And he could bring people of different points of view into a room and make them feel like they didn't need to hate each other.

02:18:06.000 I don't know if that was an innate skill that he had.

02:18:09.000 I don't know if it was something by design.

02:18:10.000 But it's certainly not something that you're seeing proactively being created as an atmosphere from the left today.

02:18:17.000 And I do sometimes – well, I wonder how far we're going to go.

02:18:22.000 I wonder how far from that as an anchor point we're going to go as a society.

02:18:25.000 And I wonder 10 years from now if someone like an Alan Combs, you know, would become more of a centrist.

02:18:30.000 We kind of see that somewhat with Juan Williams.

02:18:32.000 And again, I know the Fox News audience, they'll be going, we're not conservative enough.

02:18:35.000 And that was one thing I just hate about cable news.

02:18:37.000 I remember on Fox, if you said, well, you don't have a differing opinion on this.

02:18:39.000 Okay, the audience is not going to like that.

02:18:41.000 They're 72, they're eating their Hungry Man Swanson TV dinners, and they want to see someone say America is great.

02:18:48.000 And there's nothing wrong with saying that America is great.

02:18:50.000 The oldest show I can remember watching before I started paying attention to really conservative things, but the conservative...

02:18:55.000 The talk show was Hannity and Colm.

02:18:56.000 That was the first exposure I had to anything that wasn't just plain news before.

02:19:01.000 I'd hear Rush every once in a while in the car with my dad, but that was about it.

02:19:04.000 Hannity and Colm's first exposure.

02:19:06.000 I remember as a kid enjoying it because I kind of liked the banter.

02:19:09.000 I liked the viewpoints.

02:19:10.000 It was different.

02:19:11.000 It was much more interesting to even my mind as a young kid than what you see today, I think.

02:19:17.000 I've always thought that was the case.

02:19:18.000 We have a hard time booking.

02:19:20.000 I think Alan Colm might have been on the show when we first launched.

02:19:23.000 I know Monica Crowley has, and that's his cousin, and they used to have a segment on Bill O'Reilly all the time.

02:19:28.000 But yeah, I really enjoyed that.

02:19:30.000 I've always enjoyed, and it's not me being disingenuous trying to take some moral high road.

02:19:34.000 I don't know about you, you can tweet me at us, Crowder. 0.62

02:19:35.000 I've always much more so enjoyed Having a program with differing points of view and hearing them out, and that's why we try to get people from differing points of view on the show.

02:19:46.000 It's hard to book them, but that's another thing you have to give to Alan Combs.

02:19:50.000 The guy was a gamer.

02:19:51.000 The guy was willing to show...

02:19:52.000 When other leftists would...

02:19:54.000 I bet you watch Fox News.

02:19:56.000 And it became a punchline.

02:19:57.000 Alan Combs was there.

02:19:58.000 Alan Combs could have gone to any network.

02:20:00.000 He had the pedigree.

02:20:01.000 He could have gone to CNN. He could have gone to MSNBC. So this idea that he needed to be there, he was their whipping post, Alan Combs.

02:20:07.000 No.

02:20:08.000 Alan Combs laced up his boots.

02:20:10.000 He walked down that aisle, and he showed up when no one else would.

02:20:14.000 And I've got to respect the guy for that.

02:20:16.000 And he did some things for me.

02:20:18.000 He did a lot for me personally.

02:20:19.000 And he was very kind to me personally.

02:20:20.000 And again, it's proof that we talk about this.

02:20:22.000 We talk in general sometimes.

02:20:25.000 Generalities are necessary about how the left behaves.

02:20:27.000 And I hope you see this on this program.

02:20:29.000 We talk about the left's actions.

02:20:31.000 And we talk about that a lot.

02:20:32.000 The left's actions and how they behave.

02:20:34.000 But we've talked about this before when my friend Seymour passed away.

02:20:40.000 We try to not deal in ascribing motives.

02:20:43.000 And that's one thing that I think is important in looking at the life of Alan Combs.

02:20:49.000 I think he was a guy who was wrong politically, but I think he had the right motives.

02:20:54.000 And we need to leave room for that.

02:20:57.000 We need to remember that, that there are people out there who might disagree with us politically who are good people.

02:21:01.000 And if anything, you can just think they're lost and try to help them along the path.

02:21:06.000 Alan Combs was a really good guy, and I think the world is a slightly darker place without him.

02:21:12.000 I know that some of you will disagree, but, well, there it is.

02:21:17.000 Alan Combs, thank you very much, sir.

02:21:19.000 We'll miss you.

Louder with Crowder - February 24, 2017

#127 EPIC "RAPE CULTURE" DEBATE! Pogo and Michael Ian Black | Louder With Crowder

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