Louder with Crowder - April 15, 2015


A Chilling Story on Abortion From Ann McElhinney || Louder With Crowder


Episode Stats


Length

14 minutes

Words per minute

187.4299

Word count

2,674

Sentence count

224

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

6

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Anne McElhinney talks about the Kermit Gosnell trial and the horrific crimes he committed in the womb, and how he was able to get away with it. She also discusses the new movie, Baby A Boynell, and her new book about the case.

Transcript

Transcripts from "Louder with Crowder" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Because what he did was illegal.
00:00:01.000 He murdered those children, absolutely.
00:00:03.000 So it's first degree murder.
00:00:04.000 The problem is exactly the point that Kirsten Powers made the point of.
00:00:08.000 If you think that's disgusting what he did, if you think it's disgusting, well then why is it that you don't think it's disgusting when it happens inside the woman?
00:00:14.000 Because by the way, it's completely legal what he did if he had done it in the womb. 0.68
00:00:18.000 Completely, basically.
00:00:19.000 Completely legal.
00:00:22.000 Back with our lovely guest, Anne McElhinney.
00:00:25.000 I have to say it in a stereotypical Irish way, because otherwise I can't say it very well with my mealy-mouthed Canadian-slash-Midwestern accent.
00:00:35.000 So we were talking about science.
00:00:37.000 Okay, before we go into the next segment, science is not governed by consensus.
00:00:41.000 It's governed by truth.
00:00:42.000 Anne, put that in a bumper sticker. 1.00
00:00:44.000 You've done, obviously, Frack Nation. 0.99
00:00:46.000 Now you're going on to this Gosnell movie.
00:00:49.000 Correct me if I'm wrong, the biggest Indiegogo funding campaign of all time for an independent film?
00:00:54.000 It broke all their records at the time for an independent film, absolutely.
00:00:59.000 And it broke all records for a non-celebrity-led film everywhere.
00:01:05.000 It was a great response.
00:01:08.000 It's just amazing because the story is...
00:01:13.000 You know, words really fail to describe what Kermit Gosnell did.
00:01:17.000 I mean, language really starts to fail.
00:01:19.000 And it's really interesting as I've worked on it, and I'm actually writing a book about it as well.
00:01:23.000 And as I've worked on it, the only comparison that works for me at all is Auschwitz.
00:01:28.000 It's the only thing.
00:01:30.000 The Holocaust is all I can compare it to. 0.98
00:01:33.000 One thing that was said in Auschwitz that I think is amazing is somebody said, where was God in Auschwitz?
00:01:42.000 And a rabbi said, it's the wrong question.
00:01:44.000 The question is, where was humanity?
00:01:47.000 And I found that really helpful with Gosnell because dealing with the people, all of the people that knew what was going on, Doctors, nurses, people in beautiful offices in Harrisburg, unbelievable numbers of people knew and did nothing.
00:02:03.000 And you have to ask yourself, where was humanity?
00:02:06.000 How low can people go?
00:02:08.000 And the scenes that happened on a daily basis in his clinic...
00:02:15.000 Nothing anyone has ever seen in a horror movie can compare.
00:02:18.000 I mean, today I was just reading Steve Massoff was one of the doctors.
00:02:22.000 He had two fake doctors who worked with him, Eileen O'Neill and Steve Massoff.
00:02:25.000 But Steve Massoff is in a category of his own.
00:02:27.000 He had done a medical school training in the West Indies, was unable to get a residency, worked in a bar and then accidentally met Gosnell and got a job.
00:02:38.000 His testimony, I have never read anything like the testimony he gave on the stand.
00:02:42.000 Gosnell never defended himself, and he never took the stand.
00:02:47.000 They never called any witnesses.
00:02:49.000 But Steve Massoff was on the stand, and he said he ran.
00:02:52.000 He ran around with scissors.
00:02:55.000 He says that.
00:02:55.000 He ran because there were just so many of them, so many of these fetuses that were alive, these babies that were alive.
00:03:01.000 And he ran with the scissors, and he said the walls.
00:03:05.000 He said the walls, he said the blood flowed down the walls.
00:03:09.000 He said that under oath, under pain of perjury, that's what he said.
00:03:13.000 And you read it and you think, well, I read it and every day I read it and I have to leave the computer and I have to walk out on the beach because I'm thinking...
00:03:21.000 Because it's chilling to think that humanity can get that low.
00:03:24.000 Who are these people?
00:03:26.000 And there were eight other people working in there.
00:03:28.000 These women, these collection of women that Gosnell found to do this. 0.99
00:03:33.000 And they were all doing it.
00:03:34.000 They all did it.
00:03:36.000 There was babies arriving in toilets, swimming for their lives, swimming.
00:03:40.000 And I'm trying to, in the book that I'm writing, I'm trying to give every baby that I can a story about To try to tell the little story they had.
00:03:49.000 Because they really did live, you know, and they tried in their own way to make a statement.
00:03:56.000 And I'm going to chronicle the statements.
00:04:00.000 Baby Boy A, the one that anyone listening right now can look up and look at his photograph, that beautiful boy.
00:04:05.000 If you put into Google Baby Boy A and Gosnell, you'll see that baby.
00:04:10.000 Born at 30 weeks and 3 days and He curled himself up and Karima Cross, who took to the stand, they said to her, can you stand up?
00:04:19.000 Can you show everyone?
00:04:20.000 And she stood up and she curled herself in her body.
00:04:24.000 And that's what this little boy tried to do, to try to protect himself.
00:04:28.000 They had a neonatologist on the stand.
00:04:29.000 They asked a neonatologist to explain what it's like to be born at that age.
00:04:33.000 And he said, preemies, they're really cold.
00:04:37.000 They're really cold.
00:04:38.000 And ones that won't survive in hospitals, you know, if they were born and they weren't going to survive in a hospital.
00:04:44.000 That they keep them warm and they hold them and they dim the lights because they find the lights really hard.
00:04:55.000 They find the lights very hard on themselves.
00:04:58.000 So these children were born alive.
00:05:01.000 Most of them were viable.
00:05:04.000 And they were thrown into Tupperware containers and empty milk cartons.
00:05:09.000 And they curled themselves, this little boy, you know.
00:05:12.000 And people just, you know, people were walking by, you know.
00:05:16.000 People were there.
00:05:17.000 And one woman I interviewed recently who had an abortion there, she said the screams were blood-curdling.
00:05:22.000 She said, why did no one report it?
00:05:25.000 She said the room she was in, the window was open.
00:05:27.000 And she said she woke up during the procedure and her screams were blood-curdling.
00:05:31.000 And I'm thinking, you know, it's that horrific.
00:05:35.000 It's that horrific.
00:05:36.000 And it's like lots of people knew.
00:05:40.000 17 years and no one inspected it.
00:05:42.000 The Department of Health should all be sacked yesterday for allowing that to happen on their watch.
00:05:47.000 Who are these people?
00:05:48.000 And you say that, and your husband says that. 0.95
00:05:52.000 And you're the ones who are hateful and anti-woman.
00:05:57.000 And that's one of the saddest – that's one of the saddest stories I've ever heard.
00:06:01.000 I mean it's one of the most touching stories I've ever heard.
00:06:03.000 And then when you see the fallout of it, just today we saw this quote from Elizabeth Warren saying the government shouldn't have any involvement to Rand Paul, saying, well, what do you say?
00:06:10.000 What do you say, Mr.
00:06:11.000 Paul?
00:06:11.000 I say government shouldn't have anything to do with it at any point.
00:06:14.000 Your move.
00:06:15.000 As though it's something to be proud of.
00:06:16.000 And by the way, I was just talking with my producer here who's – We've talked about this.
00:06:20.000 You're not necessarily a very religious person.
00:06:22.000 You mentioned that you weren't really big on the abortion issue before this.
00:06:25.000 This is what transitioned for you.
00:06:26.000 Well, my producer here is a Christian and pro-life.
00:06:30.000 And when I told him about the Barack Obama situation in Illinois, basically was faced with a bill in Illinois where babies like this were surviving abortions and being thrown in basically garbage bins alive.
00:06:43.000 And I think every single person in the state legislature said, OK, we have to protect these babies, including Democrats.
00:06:48.000 The only person who said no was Barack Obama.
00:06:52.000 His justification was there was already a law in the books.
00:06:55.000 Well, if that's the case, this never even needed to come to the floor.
00:07:01.000 So obviously the laws weren't working.
00:07:02.000 And also he could have just voted present like he did on hundreds of other opportunities.
00:07:07.000 But in this one, he was passionate enough to say no.
00:07:10.000 These babies surviving abortions do not deserve to be saved.
00:07:14.000 And that's where I say, you know, most people I believe are ideologues, never chalk up to evil what you can probably chalk up to incompetence.
00:07:20.000 But this is one of those situations where even if you don't believe it's a life in the womb, it's very clear at this point that it is.
00:07:28.000 And people who still line up with, ah, the mom can do whatever they want, I say that's as close to evil as you can get.
00:07:38.000 Yeah, I mean it's another...
00:07:43.000 Yeah, it certainly made me start to think about the nature of good and evil and where does evil come from and all of that.
00:07:49.000 I mean, it does bring up all those issues.
00:07:51.000 But for me, it's almost like the people who had had all the advantages in life, you know, the people with the beautiful jobs in Harrisburg, the doctors in hospitals.
00:08:02.000 I mean, by the way, there were lots of heroes, by the way, lots of heroes who are going to be very much to the forefront in our film.
00:08:07.000 But all these other people.
00:08:09.000 Who were paid to protect the citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and who shirked those duties and moved paper around and were filing papers and moving papers and putting faxes here and passing things on to their superior.
00:08:23.000 And when they were spoken to by the grand jury, said things like, well, it wasn't my job.
00:08:27.000 And I gave it to Jim and Jim gave it to John and John gave it to the lawyers.
00:08:32.000 And you're listening to them.
00:08:33.000 And at one point...
00:08:35.000 One person in the grand jury, Joanne Pescatori, said to one of these awful people, but people died there.
00:08:44.000 Samika Shaw died there.
00:08:46.000 Karnamaya Monger died there.
00:08:48.000 And she literally did this, the woman on the stand.
00:08:51.000 She went...
00:08:52.000 People die.
00:08:54.000 People die, you know.
00:08:56.000 She mightn't feel the same with a relative of her own, you know.
00:08:59.000 But their lack of humanity is breathtaking.
00:09:01.000 It's just breathtaking.
00:09:02.000 And we just feel that this is why the movie is so important and why anyone who's out there that's listening to us, just give us one dollar.
00:09:10.000 We have 27,000 people have given us money for this film.
00:09:13.000 I would like it to be 100,000.
00:09:15.000 Because it'll make a big difference with distributors.
00:09:17.000 But also, it's like Well, that's important to note.
00:09:19.000 Do you think?
00:09:20.000 Yeah.
00:09:20.000 That's important to note for our listener there.
00:09:21.000 It's very important to note that this isn't just – it's over $2 million that you've raised.
00:09:25.000 Yes.
00:09:26.000 But it comes from – But the numbers are – it comes from 27,000 people.
00:09:29.000 27,000 people.
00:09:30.000 And I know for liberals who can't do math, like with the memories pizza – Trevor Burrus No.
00:09:55.000 Yeah, they just go to gosnellmovie.com.
00:09:58.000 Go to gosnellmovie.com and just give a dollar.
00:10:00.000 Give a dollar and tell us that you think this matters.
00:10:04.000 I cannot tell you how much this story matters a great deal.
00:10:07.000 There are so many issues that have yet to be resolved.
00:10:11.000 Where the media were, the complete shirking of responsibility by the media.
00:10:16.000 But the shirking of responsibility by so many government agencies is...
00:10:20.000 And no one has...
00:10:22.000 You know, no one's been brought to book.
00:10:23.000 I mean, there hasn't been a huge inquiry in Pennsylvania to prevent it from happening again.
00:10:27.000 I think...
00:10:28.000 I mean, my opinion is entirely opinion.
00:10:29.000 I think the reason for that is that same reason the woman gave the shoulder shrug.
00:10:32.000 I think this is a physical manifestation of what many people already know happens inside the womb, already know happens with abortion.
00:10:41.000 A lot of those people, if you really pin them down, they understood the science, they would acknowledge it's a life and...
00:10:45.000 Yeah, but it's an inconvenient life.
00:10:47.000 I think this is just a more clear-cut, hey, it's undeniable.
00:10:50.000 And even then, they're going, it's still not important enough to me.
00:10:54.000 I think the real problem with our story and with the film is that it makes people confront abortion.
00:11:00.000 Because what he did was illegal.
00:11:00.000 Right.
00:11:02.000 He murdered those children, absolutely.
00:11:03.000 So it's first-degree murder.
00:11:04.000 The problem is exactly the point that Kirsten Powers made the point of.
00:11:08.000 If you think that's disgusting, what he did, if you think it's disgusting...
00:11:12.000 Well, then why is it that you don't think it's disgusting when it happens inside the woman? 1.00
00:11:15.000 Because, by the way, it's completely legal what he did if he had done it in the womb. 0.60
00:11:19.000 Completely, basically.
00:11:20.000 Completely legal.
00:11:21.000 And in some parts of America.
00:11:22.000 In some parts of America, you can basically have an abortion right up until the day of your delivery.
00:11:26.000 And that's the law in America.
00:11:28.000 Very few countries can compare with that.
00:11:29.000 And by the way, Europe, which I have a lot of bad things to say about, Isn't even anywhere close to the laws that you have here.
00:11:35.000 24 weeks in Pennsylvania.
00:11:38.000 Even 24 weeks.
00:11:39.000 I remember when the two prosecutors got this case, these two women, both mothers, they looked at each other and said, 24 weeks?
00:11:46.000 That's six months.
00:11:48.000 And I mean, everyone who's listening, six months.
00:11:50.000 I mean, you're super pregnant at six months.
00:11:52.000 And the idea that you are allowed by law to legally kill that baby is quite extreme.
00:11:58.000 You already know the personality at six months.
00:12:00.000 My mom can tell you between my brother and I, I was kicking at six – I was almost born at six months prematurely.
00:12:06.000 My brother almost killed my mom when he was born and then I almost died.
00:12:11.000 Whatever pills I had to put my mom on, I was trying to get out.
00:12:13.000 She was going – I could sense Stephen was angsty.
00:12:16.000 He was – Go, go, go.
00:12:38.000 All mothers will tell you by six months they have a connection with their baby. 0.88
00:12:41.000 Yeah, but what I think...
00:12:43.000 Do we have time for...
00:12:43.000 Okay, let's give you one more minute.
00:12:45.000 Just one more minute, because the thing that I think is extraordinary is a lot of the people who are in favor of all these laws, who are in favor of no limits on abortion, are the same people who, when they have decided to have a baby themselves, are playing Mozart.
00:12:57.000 I know people myself who think abortion is a great idea.
00:13:01.000 They read Dickens.
00:13:02.000 They read Dickens to their unborn baby.
00:13:04.000 And I'm thinking...
00:13:05.000 Well, hang on.
00:13:06.000 How does that work?
00:13:07.000 Because by the way, I'm all in favor of the Dickens at any age.
00:13:10.000 I think it's all good.
00:13:11.000 I used to teach literature.
00:13:12.000 I think it's great.
00:13:12.000 And I think the Mozart's a great idea.
00:13:14.000 But you can't have both.
00:13:16.000 You can't think it's okay that you need to have Mozart played to your baby and that it's okay so that that baby has that humanity that will really love that music, will love all those stories being told.
00:13:27.000 And yet, on the other hand, you're holding the same opinion that it's okay to cut the inside of that head of that baby inside the womb and then suck out its brains with a vacuum cleaner.
00:13:38.000 I think it's one of the things we're going to do with this film.
00:13:40.000 I don't think it's ever been done in a movie before.
00:13:43.000 We're going to put on the stand, because it happened in the trial, an abortion doctor to explain how it's done.
00:13:48.000 Because people should know.
00:13:50.000 Absolutely.
00:13:51.000 You are right.
00:13:52.000 And little known fact, Joe Biden's mom played Beastie Boys while he was in the womb, and that's why he fought for his right to party.
00:13:57.000 So I'm sorry.
00:13:58.000 It was too uncomfortable for me.
00:14:00.000 We got too serious.
00:14:01.000 But you're absolutely right.
00:14:02.000 And thank you so much.
00:14:03.000 We have to have you back on the show.
00:14:05.000 Gosnellmovie.com.
00:14:06.000 If you're listening terrestrially, go type it in.
00:14:08.000 If you're watching online, we will put the link in the description.
00:14:12.000 Gosnellmovie.com.
00:14:12.000 And thank you so much.
00:14:13.000 We have to have you back.
00:14:14.000 Thanks so much, Steven.
00:14:15.000 It was great.