Matt Eisman is a comedian, actor, and host of the hit TV show American Ninja Warrior. He's also known for his role in the movie To Save a Life, and he's a frequent guest on Comedy Central's Saturday Night Live.
00:00:22.000This one is different than a lot of guests that we have because he's probably way more popular than so many of the guests we've had in these weird sort of niche subcultures.
00:00:32.000Certainly the imam who wanted to kill me.
00:00:33.000He's a host of the very popular show American Ninja Warrior, one in which he can never compete because he looks like he's over a buck fifty.
00:00:40.000You can follow him on Twitter at Matt Eisman, comedian, actor, host.
00:00:44.000Matt Eisman, thanks for being on, buddy.
00:01:10.000I'm 6'4", like 230, and the guy was 5'9".
00:01:16.000And so they had to do the forced perspective where, you know, it looked like we were face-to-face, but he was, you know, like two feet close to the camera, and we're putting up our dudes talking to each other while, you know, he's two feet closer.
00:01:29.000Yeah, so that's why I haven't acted as much as I would like.
00:01:33.000Well, I had that happen when I was in this film, To Save a Life, and if you've ever done a fight, if you've been in, like, of course, if you were in general hospital, you've done fight sequences.
00:01:41.000Did they put what they call the gator back on him?
00:02:22.000Everything that you know about fighting, do the opposite.
00:02:24.000Because you're trying to keep him in close.
00:02:26.000We want you to exaggerate it, expose yourself, and bring him around and bring your fist up like this.
00:02:33.000So, yeah, we're just letting people in the land of make-believe.
00:02:36.000But Ninja Warrior, before we get on to the comedy thing, which I know you started as a comic, Ninja Warrior is so popular as a summer show.
00:02:44.000It's just, because there must have been, when that pitch meeting happened, there must have been a lot of people going, ah, that'll work for some little Japanese guys.
00:05:36.000Are you guys going to give them something?
00:05:37.000Please tell me NBC's going to do something for them.
00:05:39.000So this is what's going on on the internet, is people are really upset.
00:05:42.000And it's interesting because in the context of the show, all the competitors, even though no one had ever made it to stage four, we were always very clear that would that eventuality arise, this is how it would come down to whoever did it the fastest.
00:06:03.000And unfortunately, we are constrained somewhat by standards and practices where these are the rules set out and it's hard to then go back and reward someone.
00:07:22.000I've noticed on shows I've been on where it's like an abusive relationship where before your contract comes up or before a new season will come, they won't tell you you're getting picked up until like a week before.
00:07:58.000Everyone I know now, I was talking with my dentist today, was talking about Ninja Warrior when I mentioned you were going to be on the program.
00:08:29.000I mean, there's a guy, it's amazing when you look at what he's done on his own, because I love the O&A show, Opie and Anthony, when they were together, and one of the things they always talked about was how difficult it was for them to get serious to do anything, to add a video component to upgrade their studio.
00:08:46.000Anthony loses his job, ends up having – he had a studio in his basement, then converts it to this unbelievable high-tech wonderland that's probably one of the better studios anywhere in terms of video and audio capability, and then ends up creating – I think he realized he was out in Long Island.
00:09:04.000He was having trouble getting guests to come out there.
00:09:06.000So he built a studio in Midtown that's, again, unbelievably – Nice.
00:09:15.000Well, you know, the actors' unions, they try and step in, you know, a big part of the writer's strike to a sort of digital content.
00:09:20.000The thing that empowers the individual worker, like Anthony, he was never going to work on radio again because he said something politically incorrect.
00:09:26.000But unions don't like if you can build a studio in your house and start creating your own content and monetizing it yourself.
00:09:33.000That's a big conflict a lot of people don't know about in the entertainment industry now.
00:09:51.000The barriers to entry have been lowered.
00:09:53.000The difficult thing is, how do you stand out?
00:09:57.000And that's why I always give anyone credit.
00:09:59.000When people will make fun of some Vine purse creator or whatever, where they've got millions of followers, the thing is, whatever it is, it's not easy to get people's attention and to maintain it.
00:10:13.000So to people like you who've created essentially your own brand, And I found you online.
00:10:20.000I didn't know you were on Terrestrial other than until I started hearing you on the show.
00:10:44.000I'm like, I just want to see the rest of the story because, you know, it's a subscriber.
00:10:47.000And next thing I know, every dang day, I get what my wife is flipping out that I just have so many newspapers just stacking up, stacking up.
00:10:55.000I'm like, I have nothing to do with these.
00:11:03.000Regardless of where anyone lines up politically, I can tell that you're more of an independent sort of anti-authority.
00:11:07.000Because when you talk about that, there is this puritanical mindset in stand-up, Matt, where it's like, well, they're not a real comedian unless they're doing stand-up every night.
00:11:15.000Well, it's just an evolution of comedy.
00:11:44.000I think it's it's the same process largely in that, you know, you're you're finding I think everything with standup, even though it's different with how you'll develop material versus people who are just generating a lot of material.
00:11:56.000I think it's the same process in that you're really trying to find your voice, your point of view.
00:12:00.000And I think that's what the best people do.
00:12:02.000That's what people respond to when someone finds something that resonates.
00:12:05.000with their personality and the audience.
00:12:07.000And however you do it, I have tremendous respect for that.
00:12:10.000And I started out, same thing, kind of in the clubs, a much more traditional model.
00:12:14.000And there was this very much, like you said, if you're not out on the road, if you're not doing it, you're not really a comic.
00:12:20.000And what we've seen too is just the money in stand-up has not increased.
00:12:26.000And I think that you're just being a traditional stand-up, unless you're Bill Burr or Brian Regan or someone who's selling out theaters – And I mean, Burr, even Burr, I think, really, he got his boost from his podcast and other digital mediums.
00:12:41.000I think Regan is one of the few guys I think of who's a pure stand-up comic who's done it just through stand-up.
00:13:58.000So just saying that we were at the Ice House, and I saw, you know, Ten of the greatest comics of all time, and none of them could hold a candle to Regan that night.
00:14:10.000And again, talking about a guy who's just developed his act, but when I look at people who are building their acts through Vine or YouTube or whatever it is, Grace Helbig is a good example of a YouTuber, I think, who's parlayed it now into traditional media.
00:15:38.000I just don't like it when they impose their point of view on comedy onto other people.
00:15:42.000And I think it's so important because comedy can cover so many different issues and bring up issues and encourage discussion in ways that sometimes serious approaches can't.
00:15:53.000That I just think it's important that we don't close off any topic to discussion, which is what I think comedy is, is really how you bring these topics in.
00:16:26.000And when you have people who want to legislate, you have feminists out there who want to have comedians issue trigger warnings on stage before they tell a joke.
00:16:38.000There's a real uprising, though, right now in comedy.
00:16:41.000There's a real weird sort of Jim Norton calls them cultural landmines and there are new ones being set all the time.
00:16:50.000As someone who thinks that it's definitely easier to be dirty and I always argued that because I did it one night and it was like, oh my gosh, I just could do so much better because I was free to say anything.
00:17:02.000On the same breath, I've also noticed that it's comedians like you or comedians like myself or even Regan or Gaffigan who defend that free speech more than anyone else.
00:17:10.000When you have a lot of these comedians who are dirty but they're these social justice warriors, we're like, well, it's okay for me to go up and talk about a three-centre truck stop, but it's not okay for you to make fun of Muhammad.
00:17:47.000I don't like the idea of people telling comics what they can and can't talk about because you've seen people talk about the most vile subjects and yet find a way to make it funny and find a way to make it thoughtful.
00:17:59.000And part of that is you stumble through it.
00:18:16.000And so that's why I'm always protective of if a comic says something, I always want to give them the benefit of the doubt that, look, they're trying to express something here.
00:19:21.000And again, you know, whatever she wants to do is fine.
00:19:25.000I just, I, and I don't know, maybe in 20 years we're going to look back and go, I can't believe anybody ever suggested that you could talk about certain topics or that you could joke about these things.
00:19:37.000Maybe we'll find the world is a better place because nobody's allowed to have negative thoughts or express things that aren't in line with traditional, you know, the approved thought.
00:19:49.000I mean, maybe it's one of those things where it's like, look, I'll acknowledge I could be totally wrong, but I just think that when I look at so many impactful things in history, I think having counterpoints, having people be able to discuss things.
00:20:02.000And I think the way you change minds is not by telling people you're wrong.
00:20:16.000I think that having people be able to speak their mind on topics and not be afraid to be punished … Trevor Burrus I think you're right for most people, like people listening right now or people who might have heard Sarah Silverman's comics.
00:20:32.000Then there are people like Sarah Silverman who have their mind made up and they know they're being misleading to try and move the public towards their point of view.
00:21:07.000I'm going to go to one more break and then go to the web-extended version where Matt Eisenman, you're going to hear him say all kinds of wildly offensive things.
00:21:28.000And again, I'm totally conscious of the fact that my job hinges on what I say.
00:21:37.000And if I tweet the wrong thing, I realize there are certain consequences and I try to be cognizant of that.
00:21:43.000But, you know, I try to also, when I see someone, like Trevor Noah with The Daily Show, when he got hired and they went back through his tweets and they pulled out these tweets that they felt were offensive towards women or fat people or Jewish people, when you looked at them, you're just like...
00:22:45.000If I'm going to foot the bill and they write this stuff that are just, you know, there is no correlation between weight, obesity and health issues.
00:24:28.000So it's safe to say you have a plan B. I pursued my dream, and I love what I do, but what's interesting is when you think about how We'll talk about you don't comment on people's age or their appearance, their race, their gender in anything except in medicine, where it's malpractice if you don't know someone's age, someone's gender.
00:24:49.000Ashkenazi Jews are predisposed to certain illnesses.
00:24:54.000It's funny to me when you think about how politically correct we are and in medicine it's the utter opposite where all you do is make assumptions based on gender.
00:25:04.000A woman comes in, you're doing a pelvic exam if they have pain between the knees and the belly button.
00:26:53.000And then it was awkward every time I went back there.
00:26:57.000The Kelly Osbourne thing to me was really interesting because she did what Julianna Rancic did and made a comment and argued that it was taken sort of out of context.
00:27:10.000But she didn't cut Julianna Rancic the slack that she was asking to be cut.
00:27:15.000And to me, that's the thing where it's like...
00:28:11.000No, what it is, honestly, I understand exactly where you're coming from, and there is a double standard.
00:28:14.000But I do think that, if we're being honest...
00:28:18.000The standard entirely comes from modern progressivism, the left, and like Matt Damon now who just got all this flack for saying it should be merit-based.
00:28:25.000Well, he was the guy before who was saying – literally arguing against merit-based pay in teaching.
00:28:30.000He said there was no correlation between merit-based pay and better performance for teachers.
00:28:57.000Whereas I feel like someone like you, I would provide you context.
00:29:00.000And I think a lot of people outside of the left have afforded me context because I'm consistently offensive across the board.
00:29:07.000My only thing is if you're consistent, that's what matters.
00:29:10.000But if you're not, you deserve to be consumed.
00:29:12.000I agree, but I would rather, like, with Matt Damon, I'm still like, I would rather see it be, this is a guy who's clearly, I believe, supports diversity and maybe made a statement or was ignorant, whatever it was.
00:29:31.000I don't like seeing anyone get consumed by it because I just, I think it's so easy for anyone to say something that may be taken out of context.
00:29:42.000But he does that and he serves to want to legislate that to everyone else.
00:29:45.000I would still rather see him get away with it and then say – That's true.
00:29:49.000Have everyone else because I just don't like this idea of when you say one thing that people get offended with and then for – the reality is it's usually a week.
00:30:01.000I mean, Nicole Arbor, when was the last time you saw any mention of it on Twitter?
00:30:04.000They've moved on to Matt Damon or the next gross indignation.
00:30:18.000We're going to have Karen Strahan on next week, and she's a men's rights activist.
00:30:24.000And she makes these brilliant points for people to go, you know, I was watching Parks and Rec and Amy Poehler, who I think is funny but is as far to the left as can possibly be and indoctrinates everyone through her content, unabashedly so her and Tina Fey, and I think they're very funny.
00:30:37.000Unlike the delineating factor between them and Lena Dunham is that they are funny.
00:30:44.000So they – and they also don't write themselves naked and everything and demand that we praise them.
00:30:49.000She said like, oh, men's rights are not a thing.
00:30:51.000Well, there's Karen Strachan who – people would just say that's just absurd men's rights.
00:30:54.000Well, she goes back and she goes, hold on a second.
00:30:56.000Feminism is predicated on the idea that they've discovered new things.
00:30:59.000For example, that now it's inappropriate to beat your wife.
00:31:10.000Teddy Roosevelt wanted to bring back the whipping post for men who beat their wives.
00:31:14.000This was in, I think, 1904 because they didn't think it was fair to put them in jail because they wouldn't be able to provide for the woman.
00:31:21.000So it was not only important that the man be punished, but that he simultaneously be burdened with providing.
00:31:36.000And people just go, oh, that's just ridiculous because they're not even willing to hear what she has to say because it's been just sort of this societally agreed upon truth.
00:31:43.000And a lot of those are just – and I don't say it to be conspiratorial.
00:31:46.000A lot of those are just – They're just false.
00:32:10.000And I think it's going to happen to everyone at some point.
00:32:12.000Every single person now is going to have said something for which they can lose their job.
00:32:17.000Who can run for president in 20 years?
00:32:40.000We're all going to do something we regret.
00:32:43.000It's amazing to see Steve Ranazzisi, this guy who admittedly committed this lie about being in the World Trade Center as a comic, and now it just kind of has come out.
00:32:58.000It's awful, but there's also a human part of me that goes...
00:33:04.000You know, sometimes people say things just to get a little attention, and it spirals out of control.
00:33:11.000And, you know, I know him a little bit, and I know he's always been very nice to me, and you're just like...
00:33:16.000So I definitely sympathize, you know, at the same time while saying that's a horrible thing to have claimed, and I don't know how much he traded on it to make his fame, but...
00:33:31.000I don't know if it was just, you know, I don't know that I've ever even talked about it on stage, if it's just kind of been a talking point where, you know, how much, I don't know.
00:33:41.000It's just, it's obviously a very touchy subject.
00:33:43.000I lie about stuff on stage all the time.
00:33:45.000I don't even know if he did it on stage or if it was just an interview.
00:33:48.000Well, because that would be ridiculous.
00:33:49.000I mean, I used to have a bit about throwing a baby out a window, and I've never done that.
00:37:12.000I just think comedy can be such an important art form for...
00:37:15.000For encouraging discussion and getting people to think differently and approaching people with topics or points of view that they otherwise would reject.
00:37:24.000And because you make them laugh about it, you can encourage discussion.
00:37:28.000I just think it's a shame to see that people are really trying to narrow what can be viewed as acceptable in comedy.
00:37:36.000It's all over the entertainment industry now.
00:37:38.000It should be a concern of any American who supports freedom, but particularly anyone who works in the creative Sorry, we're in the podcast.
00:40:25.000That was what got me kicked out of the Feminist Film Festival.
00:40:28.000When I said, like, you have the Black Lives Matter panel, you know, and you talk about people like Sean King, who's white, and she's like, Sean King is not white.
00:40:33.000And what got me kicked out was I just said, Sean King is absolutely white.
00:42:50.000And he's like, you know, we'll defund the military!
00:42:53.000Right, but that accounts for about 20% of spending, whereas entitlements are way more than that when you add them all up, Social Security, Medicare.
00:43:00.000So even if you cut military spending entirely and taxed everyone at 100%, and we had no military...
00:43:28.000My friend's a cop in LA and they're dealing with the pensions where when they, you know, 20 years, 25 years invested it, you then have, I think, 80% of your maximum salary for life plus healthcare.
00:43:42.000And when you start looking, you know, they had to know when they proposed this.
00:45:43.000These corporations with all this money.
00:45:44.000If they rescinded the Bush tax cuts, tell you what, Gay Jared's out in the job going back to performing favors down in the bad area of town, though it's more of a favor for him.
00:46:07.000No, but seriously, you look at the Bush tax cuts, almost all small businesses would be hurt and have to lay someone off if they get rescinded.
00:46:51.000A lot of comedians don't, but that's one thing I've sort of talked with other comedians about now, with the liability of hate speech and people suing.
00:46:59.000I mean, think about them going after a bakery for not making a cake for a gay wedding.
00:48:18.000For example, right now, the big feminist thing is all women have been oppressed by men because men are aggressive and they force women to submit and they're abusive and they're violent.
00:48:26.000Therefore, it's not okay to make fun of women.
00:48:28.000When the fact is now the pendulum's shifted and it's the other way around.
00:48:31.000And men are society's whipping posts and you can make fun of them all you want.
00:48:34.000You can make fun of yourself for being stupid, right?
00:48:37.000I mean, I've done it too where I've gone up and done bits like...
00:52:23.000You might have one or two female comics, right, at an open mic night.
00:52:28.000But then if you were to watch like Comedy Central and they have premium blend, they don't have that anymore, whatever their shows are, their showcase sets, and there's maybe four or five comics, at least two of them are women.
00:52:37.000So they're actually overly represented from the talent pool from which you're drawing.
00:53:10.000You know what I've seen though is, and I know a lot of women argue that the open mics weren't very friendly to women, which I definitely think could definitely have been the case.
00:53:21.000But we're definitely seeing, I think with people like Amy Schumer, who I think is hilarious, And like Natasha Leggero, there are a lot of women now, Chelsea Handler, who I think have made it more acceptable.
00:53:34.000So in LA, I'm seeing a lot more women getting into comedy and a lot of hilarious women.
00:53:40.000I think that's kind of like the Lady Gaga thing with Amy Schumer and...
00:54:06.000It's kind of like Lady Gaga was really talented, but she only got noticed when she was really, really weird.
00:54:09.000No one was talking about her when she was a jazz pianist and singer who was brilliant.
00:54:13.000And then you have someone like, literally, I think Kathleen Madigan is a perfect example.
00:54:16.000You could put up against any comedian in the history of ever, and she just doesn't get the recognition because she's not doing the dirty locker room humor.
00:54:23.000She's just being a genuinely funny woman.
00:54:28.000Instead of going, hey, I'm a woman who can be as dirty as a guy.
00:54:31.000And so I feel like feminists, if they wanted to be upset about anything, would be like, well, why aren't these other comedians who aren't doing the I'm such a whore act?
00:54:38.000They're not recognized even though they're funny.
00:54:46.000I mean, again, I look at a lot of women who I think identify with Chelsea and Amy, not necessarily their material, but I think feeling like these women say anything, and for a lot of times women have felt that they couldn't or it just wasn't appropriate for them to do it.
00:55:05.000I mean, again, it's one of those things where, as I'm reminded, I'm a white guy, so I don't know...
00:56:16.000But females definitely seem to have a different experience.
00:56:18.000And I think that that's one of the areas that I look at digital media and kind of these different areas that I think women have felt a lot more expressive and involved that I've seen is, you know, periscoping Vine, YouTube.
00:56:31.000I think we're seeing a lot more creativity out of the women and a forum that...
00:57:04.000That's a really, I mean, even I have some, I won't name names, but some comedians who are headliners who are involved with some of the top late night shows and they're like, yeah, I don't really do that room unless I know it's a, unless I know who's on.
00:57:14.000It's a tough room because it's really like a rough room.
00:57:17.000It's the New York, New York gym, the New York gym for comedy.
00:58:16.000Yeah, so anyone who's done a Hallmark movie has been on the show.
00:58:18.000Candace Cameron Bure, Andy McDowell, you know, everyone from the 80s and 90s, Lori Loughlin, Jack Wagner, they all come on.
00:58:27.000At first, I was thinking Lifetime, and I was like, you're going to be pushing abroad down a flight of stairs, but that's a different channel.
01:04:12.000you could take like you could probably take Bill Burr's probably I would say pound for pound one of the best comics ever you probably couldn't host the way you could because it's just hard to put him in that scenario and he's charged go off yourself listen I'm not trying to be a dick It's not lost on me, okay?
01:04:32.000I love watching him on Conan when he was talking about Caitlyn.
01:04:37.000And again, when people got outraged at it, and you're like, he's really expressing...
01:04:43.000You come back with a beard, everyone goes, oh my god, that's your face!
01:04:47.000So anyway, as you were saying, Caitlyn, and you're like, I... I didn't just – I couldn't process that people saw that as that offensive.
01:04:58.000Well, they got mad at him at the Donald Sterling – is it Donald Sterling, Gay Jared?
01:06:05.000If you change one thing, if he's an out-of-the-closet conservative, that tolerance level, there's none.
01:06:11.000There's none, because it's assumed you're immediately a racist, homophobic bigot.
01:06:14.000And even if you go back and you hear some of his interviews with ONA, Anthony was even talking about that, how even some comedians now who are known are just a little more gun-shy.
01:07:16.000The world is a better place when there's a free exchange of information and you can talk about things and convince people and sell them on an idea instead of saying, you're wrong, go to your room.
01:07:41.000When I lived there for two years, I hated it.
01:07:43.000I lived here for four years, and I'm done.
01:07:45.000I love coming back and spending a week here and catching up with friends and then leaving and going back to LA. Well, that hotel room, people are like, oh, that's small.
01:07:53.000Oh, Matt, they must not be paying them well at NBC. It's like, no, no, that room's probably like $3.50 a night.
01:09:33.000I'm not leaving until you give me my money back.
01:09:35.000And then when she gave me my money back, I left her a nice bottle of wine and chocolate because I assumed that lesbian fitness instructors like wine and chocolate.
01:09:41.000It was a gross generalization and one that paid off because we're now still friends.
01:11:04.000And we'll set, well, in that case, we'll need to set up some death panels where you can gauge what treatment is worth their life at that point.
01:11:21.000I'm going to hang up on you publicly and then I'm going to have to say thank you privately because then we have to do like, we have to do that, you know, otherwise I'm a jerk.
01:11:27.000Anyway, click this thing in the video there.