Louder with Crowder - Chael Sonnen "GSP the GOAT" and more... || Louder With Crowder

00:00:02.000 I am thrilled to have this guest here on today.

00:00:06.000 He's been on the show before, but good man, podcaster extraordinaire, UFC megastar, now a commentator for ESPN, and soon-to-be father, Chael Sonnen.

00:00:15.000 Thank you for joining the show, sir.

00:00:17.000 I wouldn't miss it, buddy.

00:00:18.000 How are you?

00:00:19.000 I am doing well, and so are you, it seems.

00:00:23.000 Are you happy right now?

00:00:25.000 You've gone through some life transitions.

00:00:26.000 You know, you retired from fighting.

00:00:28.000 You're going to be a dad.

00:00:30.000 You've switched over to ESPN. Are you happy?

00:00:33.000 You know, I'm definitely largely happy all the time, but another characteristic that I would describe myself as is tired.

00:00:39.000 I'm very fatigued, and you talk about the ESPN on East Coast versus West Coast.

00:00:44.000 With the travel, I'm constantly in different time changes, and I just find myself to be tired.

00:00:50.000 I wish I could have a little bit more sleep.

00:00:52.000 Well, why don't you just take a sip of that coffee and get some product placement going? 0.98

00:00:55.000 I'm holding one right now.

00:00:56.000 I was trying not to since we were on your show, but I might have to sneak a sip in or two here.

00:01:02.000 Yeah, you know, nobody cares.

00:01:04.000 You could pull a Jon Jones and pull out a line there and no one would even judge you for it.

00:01:08.000 So, before we get into, obviously, the PEDs that are in sports, and for the audience out there who might not necessarily be familiar with you, you are a UFC megastar, one of the biggest draws ever, a sports commentator, but a lot of people don't realize you've also been outspoken as a conservative and ran for office.

00:01:26.000 How big...

00:01:28.000 How big of a defining factor is your worldview, you know, your faith and your politics for Chael P. Sonnen?

00:01:34.000 Well, I mean, that's just who I am.

00:01:36.000 I think anybody that would answer that, you know, what do you believe in and what are your principles?

00:01:42.000 I mean, that is who you are.

00:01:43.000 So, you know, I'm a Catholic by religion.

00:01:46.000 I'm a conservative by choice.

00:01:49.000 I don't apologize for either.

00:01:51.000 And one thing that I am proud about, though, Stephen, is I have reasons for believing what I believe.

00:01:56.000 When When I was young, you kind of grew up and just believed whatever you were told, whether that was about the monster in the closet or whatever it may be.

00:02:03.000 But as I got a little bit older, I did my own research and I'm comfortable with the decisions that I've made.

00:02:07.000 I don't fault anybody that has a different opinion than me, but I would encourage people to at least do a little research.

00:02:15.000 Don't just always go off of what you were told in school or even what you were told by your parents.

00:02:19.000 Look into something and figure out what you believe.

00:02:21.000 You're a gentleman because, see, I do fault anyone who has an opinion different than my own.

00:02:26.000 You are going to be a father, right?

00:02:28.000 How far along is your missus now?

00:02:31.000 Yeah, you know, I consider myself a father already.

00:02:34.000 The baby, unfortunately, isn't here yet.

00:02:36.000 I can't wait for the little monster to arrive.

00:02:38.000 But the lovely Miss Brittany is exactly five months and one week. 0.63

00:02:46.000 And I always get confused because these pregnancy things go in weeks.

00:02:50.000 26 weeks, and then somebody's got to get out his calculator and do some shorthand.

00:02:54.000 Five months and one week, so about another four months to go.

00:02:59.000 And, Knight, we were just talking about yesterday, before we got you here on the program, how you looked at the ultrasound.

00:03:04.000 And you said something, you may not remember, but firstly, how impactful was that for you to look at, you know, a beating heart and seeing that for the first time as a first-time dad?

00:03:13.000 It's such a cool process, and it's a little bit annoying for anybody that hasn't been through it.

00:03:17.000 This is my first time, and I can tell you it's always kind of annoying.

00:03:20.000 Somebody's telling you about it or however, but they'll also tell you when you go through it, you'll know what we mean, and it really is true.

00:03:28.000 Ultrasound technology, Stephen, has been around for a long time, but this is my first time.

00:03:31.000 I don't know about it.

00:03:33.000 I've never been in the room and seen him do it and see the baby move and open his hand and just do all these things and be a little person, so...

00:03:42.000 I mean, it's a cool experience.

00:03:44.000 It's emotional.

00:03:45.000 It's life-changing.

00:03:46.000 It's all those things that you hear.

00:03:48.000 I'm not immune to any of it.

00:03:49.000 Well, let me ask you this.

00:03:50.000 A lot of people have said this, and you obviously already were.

00:03:53.000 Has it made you more pro-life?

00:03:55.000 Has it reinforced your view there?

00:03:57.000 Yeah, it absolutely has.

00:03:59.000 You know, I was pro-life to start with.

00:04:02.000 But here's the argument on pro-life.

00:04:05.000 You either argue that it's a child or it's not.

00:04:07.000 If it is a life, then we all understand you must protect it.

00:04:10.000 But when you end up in a debate with somebody with a different opinion, that's the stance they take.

00:04:15.000 They'll always say, well, it's not a life.

00:04:17.000 If you ever have an ultrasound, it really defeats that argument.

00:04:21.000 It's very clearly a life.

00:04:22.000 It's moving and kicking.

00:04:24.000 They'll show you right there.

00:04:25.000 There's the lungs.

00:04:26.000 There's the heart.

00:04:27.000 There's his ears.

00:04:28.000 There's no way around that. 0.98

00:04:30.000 If you go through an ultrasound process and you actually see it, because there's people, you'll hear the term ignorant. 0.99

00:04:36.000 He's ignorant on any topic. 0.94

00:04:38.000 The reality is, yes, people are sometimes, yeah, we don't know until we know. 0.98

00:04:42.000 We shouldn't insult somebody for not knowing.

00:04:44.000 Take the time and tell them and teach them something.

00:04:47.000 But if you go through an ultrasound and you come away and say that's not a life, that's just a silly thing to say.

00:04:52.000 For sure it is.

00:04:53.000 Yeah, well, if you come across, you know, quotes from Elizabeth Warren or Wendy Davis, they want to not only be able to end the life a couple of weeks up, but after that ultrasound that you've even seen.

00:05:04.000 I mean, that's what's so crazy.

00:05:06.000 We're not just talking about, even though it wouldn't make it right, you know, we're not just talking about a little blob of cells.

00:05:10.000 We're talking about, like, what you said, you know, fingernails and even a personality.

00:05:15.000 I'm sure, now, has Brittany noticed a personality with this baby yet?

00:05:18.000 Is it a little more antsy?

00:05:19.000 Is it relaxed, kicking a lot?

00:05:21.000 You know, he kicks a lot in the morning and the night, and she likes to tell me he's kicking, and I tell her to change her verbiage that we're going to say he's practicing.

00:05:30.000 He likes to do two-a-days, and he's training in the morning and he's training in the evening.

00:05:35.000 So, you know, she'll do that sometimes. 0.91

00:05:37.000 She'll come up and grab my hand and put it on her stomach and say, he's practicing.

00:05:40.000 Would you want your boy to be a professional fighter, following your footsteps, or would you discourage him from that?

00:05:46.000 No, I would love it if he got into something like that, but whatever he wants to do is fine with me.

00:05:52.000 He's not going to be forced into anything, but I think sports are important on any level.

00:05:56.000 Here's the one thing I don't like for young men.

00:05:59.000 You've got one minute.

00:06:02.000 The biggest problem for young men, Stephen, in our society, period, race, any socioeconomic, doesn't matter.

00:06:09.000 The biggest problem that young men have is free time.

00:06:11.000 We cannot let a kid come home from school and have nothing to do for seven hours until bedtime.

00:06:17.000 We've got to occupy their minds and their bodies somehow.

00:06:22.000 Yeah, and I would even argue that the best person to help fill that free time, of course, would also be a father.

00:06:26.000 We have a really big problem with fatherless homes in the country, whether just a completely absent father or a father who refused to put a ring on mommy's finger so he can hit the nightclubs and bump a line.

00:06:40.000 You're right.

00:06:41.000 A lot of free time is a problem.

00:06:42.000 And you coach, right?

00:06:43.000 You coach out there in Oregon.

00:06:44.000 We've got to go to a break here, but you coach kids and help a lot of impoverished youth.

00:06:48.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:06:49.000 I coach a kid's wrestling team, which, you know, to speak to the Empire, it's not a rich man's sport.

00:06:54.000 But we do two things.

00:06:56.000 One, we teach them a skill, and two, we send them home tired.

00:06:59.000 And we'll be back to talk about PEDs in sports, the top of the news, a lot of the crowd.

00:06:59.000 Well, very nice.

00:07:04.000 Stay tuned.

00:07:04.000 UFC superstar, ESPN commentator, podcaster extraordinaire, Chael P. Sonnen, thank you for being here, sir.

00:07:11.000 Wouldn't miss it, brother.

00:07:12.000 How are you?

00:07:13.000 I am doing well.

00:07:14.000 We were just talking about before the break our back problems, so that's always an issue.

00:07:18.000 But aside from that, it's a day above ground.

00:07:20.000 It's a big pain sometimes to sit too long, but we will manage through.

00:07:26.000 Do you have actual disc issues in your back from fighting for so many years?

00:07:30.000 You know, I don't have any disc issues, but I was in a wreck.

00:07:34.000 I was sitting in traffic a number of years ago, and I got rear-ended by a fully loaded gravel truck with a fully loaded trailer.

00:07:42.000 I was the first one to hit it and mounted into a five-car pileup.

00:07:45.000 I hit the guy in front of me, hit the car, you know, the domino effect.

00:07:49.000 And it's just kind of always been a little bit off since then.

00:07:54.000 Yeah, a little bit off will happen with a truck full of concrete going into you.

00:07:58.000 You're fortunate.

00:07:58.000 I saw it coming at me, too.

00:08:00.000 I was at an absolute stop, and I saw it in my rear view.

00:08:03.000 I'm just going, uh-oh, boom, got hit.

00:08:05.000 Geez.

00:08:06.000 Well, hopefully you recover.

00:08:07.000 Yeah, I've got a couple of herniated discs and all that.

00:08:09.000 That's the problem.

00:08:10.000 You know, the thing is, obviously I'm not a pro athlete, but I've done grappling, submission wrestling for years, you know.

00:08:16.000 And it's a great sport to take part in.

00:08:18.000 It does keep you active.

00:08:19.000 It gives you something to get up for.

00:08:21.000 But it does not lend itself to longevity.

00:08:23.000 It really doesn't.

00:08:24.000 Especially at, you know, what are you, walking around 220?

00:08:26.000 It's about what I am.

00:08:27.000 It's a different game than a featherweight.

00:08:30.000 You're right.

00:08:31.000 And, you know, it seems like with each year, it's almost to the day of my birthday, three more pounds, three more pounds.

00:08:36.000 And three pounds may not sound like a lot, but the years go quickly and it adds up.

00:08:40.000 And if you're talking about back pain, weight matters.

00:08:43.000 Yeah, well, LeBron just lost a few pounds, I think, 20 or so, because he said that he didn't like the impact from the joints, and he's only playing a girly sport like basketball, so I can imagine when you're actually in there fighting a guy.

00:08:56.000 Well, there it is, right there.

00:08:57.000 Yeah, you had a little tiff with LeBron not long ago, I remember, but then you said he made up for it.

00:09:02.000 We made up for it.

00:09:03.000 He made it right, and I accept his apology.

00:09:07.000 What was it that he said?

00:09:08.000 Didn't he say something to your missus?

00:09:10.000 Well, to initiate the whole thing, yes, but for the apology, if you want to call it that, it was actually...

00:09:18.000 He helped out a friend of mine that he had no idea was a friend.

00:09:21.000 A completely random act of kindness that he did for somebody in Las Vegas.

00:09:27.000 He was a very good friend of mine named Paige, and...

00:09:30.000 They say it's the thought that counts.

00:09:32.000 He actually tried to help her out with a room key because she had lost her ID. And he went as far as to offer three bribes to the front desk, put the cash down and everything.

00:09:43.000 The bribes were rejected.

00:09:44.000 She never got the room key, but it's back to the thought that counts.

00:09:48.000 And for his good heart, he's forgiven.

00:09:51.000 Okay.

00:09:52.000 So we're not going to get into what he actually said to get you angry in the first place.

00:09:55.000 We are not.

00:09:56.000 We are not.

00:10:20.000 What do you make of that?

00:10:22.000 There's a lot of speculation going on.

00:10:24.000 What was your initial reaction when you heard it?

00:10:26.000 Well, just to put it in perspective for everybody that maybe doesn't follow the news on Anderson as you're speaking of, but we're about 12 hours into this whole thing.

00:10:35.000 So my opinion and your opinion, we need to reserve the right to change our opinion when we're confronted with We're good to go.

00:11:04.000 Connected to his body was his skin.

00:11:07.000 And as graphic as that sounds, it's very relevant to this.

00:11:10.000 Now, Anderson has an obligation, a moral obligation to himself to put his health first.

00:11:18.000 He needs to do whatever he can to repair that leg.

00:11:21.000 I think we can all stipulate to that, whether it's free market or black market.

00:11:26.000 If it helps his leg, even if he's got a lean on side, it's good for him.

00:11:29.000 However, the second part of it is sport.

00:11:34.000 There are rules within the sport and they have to be followed no matter what.

00:11:38.000 It's real black and white.

00:11:39.000 And you don't often get to come to the table and go, well, yeah, but there is a reason for that.

00:11:44.000 You don't get to do that.

00:11:46.000 It sounds as though he took something that's banned.

00:11:50.000 It sounds as though it's an illegal steroid and he's going to have to answer for that.

00:11:54.000 So it's a little bit of a two-part thing.

00:11:56.000 Well, hold on.

00:11:57.000 One second.

00:11:58.000 Because you just mentioned something that you and I have talked about.

00:11:58.000 Go ahead.

00:12:00.000 I've heard you mention before a lot of people don't understand, right? 0.97

00:12:03.000 And we'll get into the fact, because a lot of people will say, well, Chiel can't compliment on us, he's a hypocrite, and we'll get into that. 0.78

00:12:09.000 But difference between a banned substance and an illegal steroid. 0.87

00:12:14.000 What he was taking, to the best of my understanding, at least one of those substances, was an illegal steroid.

00:12:22.000 Am I right, wrong, and what's the difference?

00:12:25.000 According to what he's accused of, yes, he had, I believe it was two things in his system.

00:12:30.000 I believe they are both illegal steroids, to my understanding.

00:12:33.000 In America, he came from South America.

00:12:35.000 Again, there could be some conversation on laws there, but by our standards and my understanding, yes, that's correct.

00:12:41.000 Well, over there, it's, you know, I got some back pain, here's some steroids in Brazil.

00:12:45.000 It is a little bit more free reign.

00:12:46.000 That's a true statement.

00:12:48.000 I don't actually know what the specific laws on this are, but it is true that their regular bodies are a lot looser than ours.

00:12:55.000 Well, both in the literal and the figurative sense.

00:12:57.000 I've trained with enough Brazilians to see them coming in with six-packs and veins, reptilian, year-round, so they can walk, you know, Coco Cabana and a Speedo. 1.00

00:13:06.000 They're not even the guys who aren't athletes.

00:13:10.000 Chael is a commentator at ESPN. He has to reserve judgment.

00:13:12.000 But I'll do it.

00:13:13.000 I'll indict an entire nation of people as steroid users.

00:13:17.000 So listen, a lot of people will say, okay, well, Chael, this is hypocritical because you left the sport under a cloud, right?

00:13:23.000 You tested positive for banned substances.

00:13:28.000 What do you say to those people?

00:13:29.000 I know you veered right into this, right?

00:13:31.000 You said that's the only way to handle it.

00:13:33.000 But the substances that you had taken, testosterone, you were cleared, you were under a doctor, and then it was banned, right?

00:13:40.000 And then you tested positive for other substances.

00:13:44.000 Did you only take those to get off TRT? Or had you been on those for a longer amount of time?

00:13:48.000 And were those illegal steroids or just banned substances?

00:13:51.000 Well, I've never taken any illegal steroids or even been accused of that.

00:13:55.000 Everything I took was accurate.

00:13:58.000 I was never falsely accused.

00:14:00.000 I took everything that they suggested I took.

00:14:04.000 And frankly, more over the years.

00:14:06.000 I don't even know.

00:14:07.000 If I ever went to my doctor, my litmus test has never been to cross-reference that advice with an athletic commission.

00:14:14.000 If my doctor prescribed it to me, that was it.

00:14:18.000 And I slept fine at night.

00:14:19.000 I never even had a bad conscience about it.

00:14:21.000 But that doesn't mean it wasn't against the rules.

00:14:25.000 And that is a confusion.

00:14:26.000 You'll hear the term, somebody took an illegal...

00:14:31.000 What most people will believe is you're talking about illegal by the law standards.

00:14:36.000 Illegal can be perfectly legal.

00:14:36.000 No.

00:14:39.000 It just can be against the rules of the sport.

00:14:42.000 And each commission can set up their own rules.

00:14:44.000 So keeping track of it can be very complicated.

00:14:47.000 Now that wasn't what happened in my case.

00:14:49.000 In my case, I knew full well I couldn't take it.

00:14:52.000 I just thought I could have both sides of it.

00:14:53.000 I can make myself feel better and I can compete.

00:14:56.000 I can get out of my system on time.

00:14:58.000 That's a flawed logic and I'm not arguing that.

00:15:00.000 I'm just speaking to the point that guys do get confused in it.

00:15:04.000 A reasonable person is going to believe if it's legal, I'm allowed to take it.

00:15:10.000 They're also going to believe if it's illegal, I can't take it.

00:15:13.000 And what we're finding out through this process is that's not true either.

00:15:17.000 There's some absolutely imprisonable criminal substances That oddly are allowed, per the sport, with some of these athletic commissions, and there's also perfectly legal things over the counter as minor as Tylenol, where people have lost Olympic gold medals over.

00:15:34.000 Right, that's true.

00:15:35.000 Even caffeine, I understand, by the Olympic Committee, there's a limit, and I think it's about two cups of coffee, right, is considered a banned substance, anything more than that.

00:15:43.000 That's right.

00:15:44.000 I believe the way I heard it was two shots of espresso, but coffee would also be a fair statement.

00:15:49.000 Oh my gosh.

00:15:50.000 Two shots of espresso.

00:15:51.000 You have a venti at Starbucks.

00:15:53.000 You're pissing hot.

00:15:54.000 Which I do every morning. 0.56

00:15:56.000 I'm holding it right now as we're doing this interview.

00:15:56.000 I'm at the coffeehouse.

00:15:58.000 I'm at the coffeehouse every morning at 6 a.m.

00:16:00.000 when they open up.

00:16:01.000 The good news on caffeine is it gets out of your system in about 15 minutes.

00:16:05.000 I don't think I've ever heard or any of your viewers have heard of somebody testing positive.

00:16:09.000 However...

00:16:10.000 If a random test were to come within that 15-minute window, they could have their license pulled over caffeine.

00:16:16.000 That's an accurate statement.

00:16:18.000 Straight up, does it still bother you at all?

00:16:21.000 What the things people say or when you left the sport and that controversy happened?

00:16:26.000 Yeah, you know, I never felt good about it.

00:16:28.000 Here's one thing that happens is human nature.

00:16:31.000 Whenever you're in the hot spot, whenever you're caught in some red tape and you're wrong...

00:16:38.000 Yeah.

00:16:39.000 You feel it.

00:16:40.000 There's also a relief to being accurately accused.

00:16:44.000 The guys I feel bad for are the guys that are falsely accused.

00:16:46.000 I wasn't in that spot, man.

00:16:48.000 I was guilty.

00:16:49.000 And it brought me shame.

00:16:51.000 Whenever you have shame, it's very hard to come clean.

00:16:54.000 Even when you want to come clean, there's an internal battle that goes on, and it takes a little bit to get there.

00:17:02.000 To bring it back to the Anderson situation, If he took these substances, again, he not only has a right to take it, he's got an obligation to himself, if it's about curing his life.

00:17:13.000 Well, if he's not in professional sports where he's whacking on some other guy, obviously, is what people will say.

00:17:18.000 But that's the second side.

00:17:20.000 You've got to put health comes first, sport comes second, or sport comes way down the list.

00:17:25.000 But health certainly comes first.

00:17:26.000 He has the right and even an obligation to cure himself.

00:17:30.000 And if he's got to lean on science for that, good for science.

00:17:33.000 Good for the guys that discovered it.

00:17:34.000 But, hold on, I do want to finish this thought.

00:17:36.000 That doesn't mean he can blend it with sport.

00:17:38.000 I'm not arguing that he should be able to.

00:17:41.000 Well, no, and that's a good point.

00:17:43.000 And that's his situation.

00:17:43.000 Yeah, I understand that.

00:17:45.000 Well, let me ask you this.

00:17:46.000 The substance that he tested positive, first off, complete speculation.

00:17:50.000 I am aware of this, but I'm asking for your opinion.

00:17:53.000 Do you think Anderson was on something when you fought him?

00:17:57.000 I can tell you...

00:17:59.000 I can tell you on the substance issues, the rules get very blurred, and I'll tell you why.

00:18:05.000 They have something now called out-of-competition testing.

00:18:09.000 The rule used to be, and the rule when I started and came through, and one of the problems I had was not adapting to the changes, but it used to just be in competition, meaning what's in your system on fight night?

00:18:21.000 Time mattered.

00:18:23.000 If you were to come in and go, hey, listen, I got to tell you guys, when I was in high school, I did, and then fill in the blank.

00:18:28.000 They go, oh, we don't care.

00:18:29.000 You go, well, bad news.

00:18:31.000 When I was in college, I did it again.

00:18:33.000 They go, oh, we don't care.

00:18:35.000 So right off the bat, you understand time does matter.

00:18:38.000 There is a time period of which all is forgiven.

00:18:41.000 The confusion has come in, what is that time period?

00:18:44.000 And I accept that these are the rules and we must operate within them.

00:18:49.000 I do believe there's a conversation to be had that you can't just ban all medication from a person.

00:18:55.000 A person does not have between health and sport.

00:18:59.000 I hate to do this, but the question was, do you believe, do you think, if someone holds a gun to your head, do you think Anderson had used before?

00:19:08.000 Or do you think this was a one-time deal?

00:19:10.000 When you fought him, do you think he was on something?

00:19:11.000 If you have to guess.

00:19:13.000 But I can't answer with a yes or no, Stephen, because here's why.

00:19:17.000 Here's why.

00:19:19.000 If you're saying that a guy never took a banned substance in his life, that's a silly statement, particularly in the context that you and I just established, that Tylenol, caffeine, IV – these things are all banned substances.

00:19:32.000 But what about these substances that he was taking?

00:19:35.000 I really don't know, man.

00:19:36.000 I can tell you this on Anderson Silva – The human body doesn't get better with age.

00:19:42.000 That's the reality.

00:19:43.000 We start to decline as humans and particularly as athletes right around 25 years old.

00:19:49.000 If you're real lucky, you might push that to 27 or 28.

00:19:52.000 The good news is science and medicine have come along and decided the world does not belong to 18 to 25 year olds, but that you can extend your career beyond that.

00:20:03.000 So if you're asking me if he took something, there's two tests that you take, Stephen.

00:20:07.000 The first test is not The urine drug test.

00:20:11.000 The first test is the visual.

00:20:13.000 When a guy takes his t-shirt off and gets into the ring or steps on the scale, you look at him.

00:20:19.000 If a guy got better with time, you can't do that on your own.

00:20:23.000 Anderson Silva's body doesn't appear to have changed at all.

00:20:27.000 So a reasonable person would conclude that whatever he was on now, he was on before, but there's no evidence to support that.

00:20:35.000 No, I get it.

00:20:35.000 It's entirely speculation, and that's why I tried to preface it with that, to be fair, as opposed to the people on the gotcha stations who were like, It was facts!

00:20:42.000 Chael said he fought Anderson on PEDs!

00:20:44.000 Listen, we're going to go to a break here, and we will be right back, because I want to continue down this line and even take it to Jon Jones.

00:20:51.000 Back with Chael Sonnen.

00:20:52.000 We were talking before the break about PEDs in sports.

00:20:55.000 Anderson Silva is obviously breaking news.

00:20:59.000 So we speculated a little bit there.

00:21:00.000 I certainly did.

00:21:01.000 One thing I will say, having read up on the drugs that Anderson did use, you know, one of those substances, if you look at it, actually one of its symptoms, one of the side effects, is that it can cause overcalcification.

00:21:12.000 It can actually cause bones to become weaker and more prone to breaking.

00:21:16.000 Did you know that?

00:21:18.000 No, I hadn't heard that.

00:21:19.000 And that's where you have all of the people speculating.

00:21:21.000 And again, it is speculation.

00:21:22.000 You have a bunch of mouth breathers who've never hit an armbar in their life on Sure Dog acting like they're now medical experts or biochemists.

00:21:30.000 But that is an actual side effect of that one drug that he had taken, which sort of makes it interesting.

00:21:35.000 I know, listen, you hate to ever drag someone's name through the mud.

00:21:38.000 Obviously, you've had some things happen, but it is a little bit fun as the news unfolds, let's be honest.

00:21:43.000 I'll tell you this about myself.

00:21:45.000 I was asked that too.

00:21:46.000 As soon as you test positive for something, people will want to say it was over your whole career.

00:21:52.000 And my response is that's fair.

00:21:53.000 That's a fair statement.

00:21:54.000 If you get hit with something, it runs you all the way back in time.

00:21:58.000 Right.

00:21:58.000 The reality is, as science and medicine change, you're constantly taking new things.

00:22:04.000 Are they within the rules or not?

00:22:06.000 I think that's all a good question.

00:22:08.000 Nobody's totally clear on what these rules are.

00:22:10.000 I don't think you or I knew, prior to Anderson testing positive, how to pronounce these substances, let alone were they allowed or not.

00:22:17.000 So you kind of learn as you go, but I do think that's a fair statement.

00:22:21.000 I don't think it helps a guy to ever come out and go, no, no, no, this was a one time, or man, they just caught me out of bed.

00:22:29.000 Call it what it is, man.

00:22:31.000 You took it, you got caught at the end.

00:22:33.000 And that's what happened.

00:22:34.000 We'll see how Anderson handles it, but I think when somebody, at least for me, when somebody tried to say things, even if it wasn't accurate, I think I still deserve it.

00:22:44.000 If you test positive and somebody wants to run that back all the way to when I started my career at nine years old, I don't think that guy's wrong.

00:22:53.000 Everything you just said, my takeaway was, Shale's son knows how to use you or I properly.

00:22:59.000 Good use of grammar there.

00:23:01.000 A lot of people would have gone with the you and me, but that was appropriate.

00:23:04.000 Fun Dip, the producer, he's out right now, who's on the show.

00:23:06.000 He will constantly correct my grammar.

00:23:08.000 There is a very simple rule on how to follow that.

00:23:12.000 My mother was a school teacher, so I know that rule, but a lot of people don't.

00:23:15.000 So very good.

00:23:16.000 I appreciate you picking it up.

00:23:17.000 You want to know one that bothers me?

00:23:18.000 When somebody says, I could care less.

00:23:21.000 Oh, I hate that.

00:23:22.000 If you could care less, that means you're not at the bottom of your care scale.

00:23:27.000 That means you have room to care.

00:23:28.000 It's, I couldn't, I could not care less.

00:23:32.000 I'm at the bottom of the pit on caring.

00:23:34.000 Right.

00:23:35.000 The worst for me, I think that any man who goes about with the word irregardless on his lips deserve to be roasted with his own Thanksgiving turkey.

00:23:44.000 Over-exaggerate.

00:23:46.000 Right.

00:23:47.000 It's redundant.

00:23:48.000 There's no need to.

00:23:49.000 Guestimate.

00:23:50.000 Right.

00:23:51.000 All grammatical infractions far worse than steroid use.

00:23:56.000 Mind you instead of remind you.

00:24:01.000 I didn't really even think of that one.

00:24:03.000 That one's an annoying one.

00:24:04.000 It is.

00:24:05.000 Well, I'm learning.

00:24:06.000 I'm learning.

00:24:07.000 See, we always learn.

00:24:08.000 And as the ratings of our show are going down, people are turning the channel, let's go back to steroids.

00:24:15.000 Let's bring it back up.

00:24:17.000 Well, not even just steroids, right?

00:24:19.000 Okay, really quickly, because we don't want to spend too much time on the technical side of it.

00:24:22.000 John Jones tested positive for cocaine.

00:24:25.000 That was a big deal.

00:24:26.000 You fought Jon Jones.

00:24:27.000 You hosted a reality show against Jon Jones.

00:24:29.000 So we know that, but I do want to get to this because a lot of the conspiracy theorists, again online, say that you knew that and you tweeted out, Jon, if you keep telling lies about me, I'm going to start telling the truth about you.

00:24:43.000 And at the weigh-ins, when usually people rehydrate themselves with Pedialyte or Gatorade or something like that, you were drinking a can of Coke, looking him straight in the face.

00:24:52.000 How long have you or let's say people in the sport known about this?

00:24:56.000 There are rumors circulating that people have known for a long time this guy's been a fan of Colombian gold.

00:25:02.000 I would tell you this. 0.99

00:25:06.000 Gatorade is for suckers.

00:25:08.000 Pedialyte is for babies. 1.00

00:25:10.000 And Coca-Cola is for gangsters.

00:25:12.000 And there was absolutely no correlation other than Coca-Cola had sponsored me and it tastes delicious.

00:25:18.000 That's the famous Arnold line in Pumping Iron.

00:25:21.000 Milk is for papis.

00:25:23.000 It is.

00:25:24.000 Well, that's not a fair statement.

00:25:26.000 Milk will keep your bones strong.

00:25:27.000 Milk's a good thing.

00:25:28.000 Make sure you're drinking your milk.

00:25:29.000 But I don't know why a grown man would drink Pedialyte.

00:25:32.000 It tastes terrible, and it's for babies.

00:25:34.000 There's an infant on the bottle.

00:25:36.000 There's like a four-year-old baby on the bottle of Pedialyte, and I see these grown men sipping it.

00:25:42.000 It's just weird.

00:25:43.000 Well, you have to see something, though, here, Chael.

00:25:44.000 I mean, I love you, but I have to point out some inconsistency with you're there drinking a Coke.

00:25:49.000 Right next to your dietician, Mike Dolce, who basically says you might as well be giving yourself cancer.

00:25:56.000 What does he do when you do that?

00:25:57.000 Or is he not as stringent behind the scenes?

00:26:00.000 Is he a little more relaxed?

00:26:01.000 He was so mad, Stephen.

00:26:03.000 He was so mad about that.

00:26:04.000 And he told me ahead of time that that was going to make him mad.

00:26:08.000 I didn't take him as sincere.

00:26:11.000 I thought it was like a joke, mad, you know, elbow up, wink, wink.

00:26:14.000 We had dinner after that.

00:26:16.000 He didn't come to dinner.

00:26:17.000 He was so upset with me.

00:26:18.000 He said, well, if you don't want to listen to me, there's no point in me being here.

00:26:21.000 I didn't understand that he would care that much.

00:26:23.000 However, now this is true.

00:26:24.000 Forget the sponsorship.

00:26:26.000 Real talk real quick.

00:26:28.000 Coca-Cola is one of the most...

00:26:29.000 An ice cold Coca-Cola.

00:26:31.000 I could swim in it, Stephen.

00:26:33.000 I could jump in a pool of Coca-Cola and be so happy.

00:26:37.000 I want to put into context, I was 17 pounds overweight 22 hours before I made the weight.

00:26:45.000 So I lost 17 pounds in 22 hours to explain to you my level of thirst and dehydration.

00:26:51.000 I couldn't speak because my mouth didn't have any saliva.

00:26:55.000 I was that dehydrated.

00:26:57.000 Imagine how good an ice-cold Coca-Cola tasted right there.

00:27:00.000 There's one shot in your life to enjoy a Coca-Cola that much, and I had passed it up.

00:27:06.000 My previous fight was also a title fight with Anderson Silva.

00:27:09.000 Dolce took my Coca-Cola away.

00:27:11.000 I literally resented him for it for an entire year until I had that weigh-in again.

00:27:17.000 I said, man, I can't do it.

00:27:18.000 I gotta have a pop.

00:27:20.000 There you go.

00:27:21.000 Gotta have a pop.

00:27:21.000 You know, I always wondered in the Pacific Northwest if you guys said soda or pop, and you just answered my question.

00:27:26.000 Back to Jon Jones' version of Coca-Cola.

00:27:30.000 Yeah, I know.

00:27:32.000 Hilarious segue.

00:27:34.000 Well done, my friend.

00:27:35.000 Yeah, he likes the cocaine.

00:27:35.000 I'm very clever.

00:27:36.000 Listen, here's my deal with Jon Jones.

00:27:39.000 I would love him to be on the show.

00:27:40.000 I don't think, you know, I don't think he knows me from the Tom, Dick, or Harry down the street.

00:27:45.000 But...

00:27:46.000 You know, when you go out with the Bible versus tattooed on you, and you go out and you talk about wanting to be a role model and saying, you know, I'm never going to be caught with a DUI, and then you test positive for cocaine.

00:27:56.000 Now, cocaine, again, there's the differentiation between in-competition and out-of-competition, whereas, you know, Nick Diaz tested positive for pot.

00:28:05.000 Could have been fighting blitzed, for all we know.

00:28:08.000 Very skilled, those Diaz brothers.

00:28:11.000 With Jon Jones...

00:28:14.000 What's the real deal with him?

00:28:15.000 Who is the real Jon Jones?

00:28:18.000 That's a speculation.

00:28:19.000 He's lost a lot of fans.

00:28:20.000 And how rampant is not just PEDs, how rampant are drugs in sports?

00:28:24.000 Is it more common than we think?

00:28:26.000 I think for marijuana it is.

00:28:28.000 Cocaine's a weird one for me.

00:28:29.000 I'm from Portland, Oregon.

00:28:31.000 I've never...

00:28:32.000 Not only have I never put my eyes on coke, I've never been offered it or around somebody that's like, hey man, I just dig...

00:28:38.000 That's...

00:28:38.000 For us in Oregon, that's a Hollywood thing.

00:28:41.000 We only see cocaine in the movies.

00:28:43.000 We only picture it and it's...

00:28:46.000 Everything that you see in Hollywood is what my vision of cocaine is.

00:28:50.000 However, we're known here in Oregon for having good marijuana.

00:28:55.000 I don't understand the marijuana argument.

00:28:58.000 I resist it fully.

00:29:00.000 The laws are changing and evolving, and I'm just going to have to say fine to that.

00:29:06.000 But to your point, I don't know that drugs are very rampant.

00:29:10.000 I know when you speak of John Jones, look, he's a young guy that stumbled into an enormous amount of success.

00:29:17.000 He was a college dropout.

00:29:19.000 I don't mean that as a slide to him.

00:29:21.000 I mean that as more of a compliment and a guy that still stuck with some goals and was able to turn it around.

00:29:26.000 But he was caught in that period of time where you're going out and you're having fun and you're doing these types of things.

00:29:32.000 And one thing about an athlete, Stephen, one of the dark sides of an athlete is you never have to grow up.

00:29:38.000 You've got to continue to be in the locker room.

00:29:40.000 Sports are a game.

00:29:42.000 And you can talk about him being a professional all you want.

00:29:45.000 Sports are for children and they're a game.

00:29:47.000 And a very select few people get to continue that into adult life.

00:29:51.000 But it largely doesn't propel them to professionalism.

00:29:56.000 It does just the opposite.

00:29:57.000 It just kind of allows you to stay a kid longer.

00:29:59.000 And I think John's having some growing pains that are getting caught in front of the world.

00:30:03.000 And it's embarrassing.

00:30:05.000 But the good news, and there really is, no spin here, that the real good news is he got caught, man.

00:30:10.000 If you're hooked on cocaine, I think we can both agree you don't want to be.

00:30:15.000 Yeah, well, listen, I've spent a lot of time in the media and entertainment industry, so it's not as foreign to me as it is to you.

00:30:20.000 I've never touched it, but as a matter of fact, I've moved.

00:30:24.000 I've moved cities because of how rampant cocaine was in industries that would surprise people to get away from it.

00:30:33.000 That being said, I mean, the big criticism is the kid is fake about it.

00:30:38.000 He went into rehab for half a day.

00:30:40.000 Do you really think...

00:30:41.000 I'd like to see someone learn, because he's possibly the best...

00:30:47.000 Okay, listen.

00:30:53.000 This is funny.

00:30:55.000 This is not right.

00:30:56.000 This is very wrong, but to pretend this isn't funny... 0.99

00:31:00.000 He checked into rehab, he signed in, and he signed his ass right back out. 0.99

00:31:06.000 They can't force you to stay in rehab. 0.99

00:31:08.000 They also can't disclose when you leave.

00:31:11.000 There's absolute anonymity reasons to go in.

00:31:14.000 So when he wants to make a statement and go, hey, I checked into rehab, he never said I stayed in rehab.

00:31:19.000 He never said I completed rehab.

00:31:21.000 That might possibly be...

00:31:24.000 The funniest thing that he's ever done.

00:31:26.000 I'm not saying appropriate.

00:31:28.000 I'm not giving this a pass.

00:31:30.000 I'm not weighing judgment at all.

00:31:32.000 But that may be the single most humorous thing.

00:31:35.000 I mean, that's straight out of a movie.

00:31:37.000 The dude checked in, signed his sheet, and walked back to the Bentley and drove home.

00:31:40.000 That's a gangster move.

00:31:41.000 Any way you look at it, that's what that is.

00:31:44.000 It's not his Bentley.

00:31:45.000 If you're talking about that picture, he said it wasn't his Bentley.

00:31:47.000 So how dare you bring your incorrect facts to Lotta with Crowder, sir?

00:31:51.000 It's just a funny story, man.

00:31:52.000 And the thing with Jon Jones, and a lot of times with Jon Jones, it's like anybody else, all you do is talk about the bad.

00:31:58.000 I don't mean to build a guy up that just went through.

00:32:01.000 I'm not giving a pass for any of that, but I was around him day and night on a reality show, seven days a week.

00:32:06.000 We spent holidays together.

00:32:08.000 It fell over one Halloween, which I know isn't a holiday, but it's a big day if you have kids.

00:32:12.000 You don't get to see them dressed up at home.

00:32:14.000 We also spent Thanksgiving together.

00:32:15.000 We literally sat down.

00:32:17.000 John and I cut the turkey and scooped up the potatoes for everybody.

00:32:20.000 The point I'm trying to make, I really got to know him and he was an excellent guy.

00:32:25.000 He was nice to people.

00:32:27.000 He took time.

00:32:28.000 He was generous.

00:32:29.000 He was gracious.

00:32:30.000 He also liked to go out at night.

00:32:32.000 I understand there's two sides of him, but I do want to make sure the whole story gets told.

00:32:36.000 If he was here right now, he would make you laugh.

00:32:39.000 He's a fun guy, and I think he needs to mature a little bit.

00:32:44.000 I'll finish with this thought on Jon Jones.

00:32:46.000 To your point about him being fake, and he does get called that, there's some truth to that. 0.64

00:32:51.000 He has an image of who he wants to be, but he's not that guy.

00:32:53.000 I think we can all relate to that.

00:32:55.000 We all want to be somebody, and sometimes we fall a little short.

00:32:58.000 Right.

00:32:59.000 He deals with criticism because he's in the media.

00:33:02.000 He's got certain sponsors and brands, and he believes he needs to portray a certain image. 0.98

00:33:06.000 I believe not only on a personal level would he somehow be relieved and kind of out of the closet, if you will, but I also believe on a professional level sales would do better if he just came out and said, look, I party all night, I barely ever go to the gym, and I'll whip anybody's ass that wants to step in that cage with me. 0.66

00:33:23.000 All three of those statements are true, and they would also make him endearing.

00:33:29.000 Yeah, I don't know about that.

00:33:30.000 I mean, you look at like George St.

00:33:31.000 Pierre.

00:33:32.000 And here's one thing I will say that bothers me.

00:33:33.000 And I don't say this to insult you because obviously you fought Anderson.

00:33:37.000 But everyone's saying he's without a doubt the greatest of all time.

00:33:41.000 Not only as a Montrealer, but George St.

00:33:43.000 Pierre, when you and I had this conversation, remember, at your place in Oregon with McDanger Waffles was sitting right there.

00:33:50.000 That's a good dog right there.

00:33:51.000 That is a good dog.

00:33:52.000 I've got my dog here, Hopper, in here.

00:33:53.000 He's actually like Ronda Rousey's dog, a doggo Argentino.

00:33:57.000 Big, incredible athlete.

00:33:58.000 If you could put him in a human, he would be like John Jones turned up to 11. 0.54

00:34:02.000 That's awesome. 0.99

00:34:02.000 He's a crazy dog. 0.99

00:34:03.000 Super sweet.

00:34:04.000 On the other hand, Stephen, my dog is 0-7 in street fights, 6 against cats.

00:34:10.000 I'm not joking.

00:34:11.000 6 against cats and 1 against a horse.

00:34:13.000 But he's very sweet.

00:34:15.000 He means well.

00:34:16.000 My dog hates horses.

00:34:16.000 He does mean well.

00:34:18.000 I don't even remember what my point is.

00:34:20.000 We started talking about dogs.

00:34:21.000 We're talking about George St.

00:34:22.000 Pierre.

00:34:23.000 Oh, okay, yes.

00:34:24.000 A phrase you said.

00:34:26.000 I remember right as we were prepping to shoot this video on legalizing MMA in New York, and we have to go in a minute and a half, you said, I've never seen an athlete like that in my life, and I know many Olympic medalists.

00:34:39.000 Now, in retrospect, looking at everyone's career, don't you think someone could argue that the guy who left undefeated, never tested hot, was a great ambassador to the sport, highest pay-per-view draw, wouldn't you have to give it to St.

00:34:53.000 Pierre at this point until maybe Jones passes him by?

00:34:56.000 I don't think there is any argument.

00:34:58.000 It definitely goes to George St.

00:35:00.000 Pierre.

00:35:01.000 Pierre was ranked number one in the world, pound for pound.

00:35:01.000 And George St.

00:35:04.000 There was a press conference done, and they said, no, Anderson's the best, and our president, Dana White, made this whole argument, and that is his opinion.

00:35:12.000 But the entire media then shifted.

00:35:14.000 They dropped George from one to two.

00:35:16.000 They left Anderson from four to one.

00:35:19.000 Anderson's a fantastic fighter.

00:35:20.000 This isn't a commentary on him, but if you want to talk about the greats, I fought Anderson twice.

00:35:24.000 I've worked out with St.

00:35:26.000 Pierre.

00:35:26.000 I'm just calling it like it is.

00:35:27.000 It's George.

00:35:28.000 Okay, final thought here.

00:35:30.000 If you were to have fought George St.

00:35:33.000 Pierre, both of you and your prime, how do you think that would have gone?

00:35:36.000 Because he's a lot smaller than you.

00:35:37.000 Do you think it would have been close?

00:35:39.000 Well, I'll tell you this.

00:35:40.000 I worked out with George St.

00:35:41.000 Pierre, and it was competitive and close, but George got the best of me.

00:35:48.000 He was as strong as an ox.

00:35:50.000 It was shocking to feel his grip.

00:35:52.000 I remember when he would grab ahold of me, it was like being caught in a vice grip.

00:35:56.000 He was also a lot quicker than me because of that size factor, and it was enough to upset me.

00:36:02.000 I remember driving home in my car that night thinking, I need to get my hands on this guy again.

00:36:06.000 I can beat him.

00:36:07.000 I can beat him.

00:36:09.000 But if you want the reality of our one private workout that only Kenny Florian was witness to, I will admit St.

00:36:18.000 Pierre was impressive.

00:36:19.000 And you know what?

00:36:19.000 What would have been so, I imagine, even harder to take about that is he would have been so nice with, hey, Chell, don't worry about it.

00:36:26.000 It's going to be a better day for you tomorrow, you know?

00:36:29.000 He did all of that, and he told me about, oh, you know, I went out last night.

00:36:34.000 I did not get home until 5 in the morning.

00:36:36.000 I'm very tired.

00:36:37.000 You know, he did this whole thing, and it's like, okay, I'm just going to the shower.

00:36:40.000 Now, we were close.

00:36:41.000 You know, he paid me some compliments afterwards, too.

00:36:44.000 But, you know, if I was to be fair about it, man, George was the victor that day.

00:36:49.000 If I'm being fair about it, you just made George St.

00:36:51.000 Pierre sound like the Iron Sheik.

00:36:53.000 I've only got one accent, man.

00:36:55.000 It doesn't matter what the nationality or ethnicity I'm attempting to do.

00:36:59.000 I could be doing you.

00:37:00.000 It comes out the same way.

00:37:01.000 Yeah.

00:37:02.000 Well, we should phrase that differently next time.

00:37:04.000 But before we go, podcaster extraordinaire, obviously commentator for ESPN, noted conservative, good man.

00:37:12.000 Where can people best find you?

00:37:15.000 They can find me on Twitter.

00:37:16.000 I'm on Twitter constantly.

00:37:16.000 You know what?

00:37:19.000 Sonnch.

00:37:20.000 S-O-N-N-E-N-C-H. Thank you very much, Chael, and I look forward to having you back, brother. 1.00

Louder with Crowder - February 07, 2015

Chael Sonnen "GSP the GOAT" and more... || Louder With Crowder

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