Louder with Crowder - DEBATE: Feminist Asks Crowder to Check Privilege (Maria Del Russo Uncut) | Louder With Crowder

00:00:00.000 I'm giving you the example that traditional patriarchal mindsets affect you too.

00:00:06.000 You should 100% get nine months off for if you decide to have a child.

00:00:12.000 And let me say this, while we're getting personal, you should 100% if you date a man who wants nine months off, leave him.

00:00:20.000 All right, so I'm very glad to have my next guest.

00:00:23.000 First off, anyone who's going to be tweeting her, texting her, messaging her, I always want you guys to be respectful.

00:00:29.000 We talk about this. Anyone who enters the arena, as it were, anyone who is willing to engage in the process of ideas with people across the aisle, I have a lot of respect for it, because it's really tough to get people on the show a lot of the time.

00:00:42.000 Coming increasingly so. Yes.

00:00:43.000 So she has been tweeting me a couple of times over the last week and a half or so over the male privilege is a myth, change my mind segment.

00:00:52.000 And you can follow her on Twitter at Maria underscore Del Russo.

00:00:56.000 Maria Del Russo, how are you?

00:00:58.000 I'm well. How are you?

00:01:00.000 I'm doing well, thank you.

00:01:01.000 I appreciate you being on the program.

00:01:03.000 Thank you for inviting me.

00:01:05.000 And not only that, but you have your headphones set up, decent look.

00:01:08.000 I do. I mean, your producer asked me to put these headphones in, so I have to give, you know, I have to give props where props are due.

00:01:16.000 I'll send her a check later. You don't have to do anything that Jared tells her to do.

00:01:19.000 You don't have to do anything. That is true.

00:01:21.000 That is true. Okay, so let's kind of get right into it.

00:01:24.000 I want to make sure that people kind of know our jumping off point, how we made contact.

00:01:29.000 And I want to quote you directly your tweets so that I don't take you out of context.

00:01:32.000 If I do at any point, please feel free to let me know.

00:01:35.000 So the initial tweets that I saw from you, this is from the...

00:01:38.000 Male privilege is a myth. Changed my mind segment we did. 0.97

00:01:40.000 Was that last Monday?

00:01:43.000 Maybe two weeks ago. I don't know. It was a while ago.

00:01:44.000 It's irrelevant. We don't need to get into this information.

00:01:46.000 But you tweeted me, the fact that you expect people to walk up to you and hand you an explanation because you asked for it instead of going online and researching it yourself is a pretty perfect example of male privilege.

00:01:58.000 There are a couple of tweets, but let's start with that.

00:02:02.000 I don't know that I necessarily agree with the premise or understand it, but let me hear it.

00:02:08.000 Well, I just want to apologize for that in advance because a lot of your followers did tweet me after the fact I didn't really know much about you or that this was a thing that existed beforehand.

00:02:18.000 I did not know that the change my mind segment was actually a thing.

00:02:21.000 So now I'm aware of that.

00:02:24.000 But before we jump into all of this, I'm hoping that we can kind of start it out just as kind of like to frame off our discussion to kind of define what privilege is, because I think that that's where a lot of this tension comes from, right?

00:02:36.000 So there are two definitions that I want to share with you.

00:02:39.000 So the first one is from like good old Webster's dictionary and privilege as defined by that is a special right advantage or immunity granted or available to only a particular group or person.

00:02:51.000 If you talk about privilege in sociology that examines the social, economic, and political advantages given to a group on the basis of sex, race, finances, All that type of thing.

00:03:07.000 Okay, pause really quickly just so I can make sure that I'm understanding.

00:03:10.000 And so we're talking about systemic privilege, systemic discrimination versus sociological cultural.

00:03:15.000 And what you were tweeting me were examples, I guess you would probably argue sociological examples of male privilege.

00:03:22.000 Well, they're societal examples of male privilege, because sociology is kind of the study of how privilege influences these different systems.

00:03:31.000 So, society is a system, as is economics is a system, as is politics is a system.

00:03:37.000 So, the examples that I were sending you were examples of social privileges that men have.

00:03:43.000 Okay. But when we talk about privilege from the top down- Privileges that, me specifically, Well, I guess this would apply to all males, because this is how we made contact.

00:03:52.000 So I do want to, I appreciate your apology on the change my mind thing.

00:03:56.000 That's a segment we've been doing for a while.

00:03:57.000 And I know you mentioned that you got some threats from people and some terrible comments, which, listen, I mean, I won't apologize for them because I didn't make them, but I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

00:04:06.000 Yeah, thank you. That's never my intention, ever.

00:04:09.000 And I know you asked me, you know, as a male, if I'd gotten similar threats from followers, if I'd been asked that I would be raped for expressing it.

00:04:18.000 I'm sure now that you've done a little more research on who I am, that you're probably aware this is not a privilege I enjoy.

00:04:24.000 Yeah, yes, 100%.

00:04:27.000 And again, I get all of that now.

00:04:30.000 But the reason why I wanted to define privilege to you is that a lot of people consider privilege, when we talk about male privilege, they think of it more as like an adjective, when in reality it's actually a noun.

00:04:42.000 So it's something like...

00:04:44.000 Privilege isn't something that you necessarily, or men in general, are necessarily, you know...

00:04:51.000 Exercising over someone else.

00:04:53.000 Exactly, exactly, exactly.

00:04:55.000 I know that one of the jokes you like to make is, there's no secret patriarchy meeting coming together and being like, here's how we're going to oppress women. 1.00

00:05:02.000 Like, sure, men's rights groups exist in this country, and they may feel that way, but on the whole, this is not what this is, right?

00:05:09.000 Right. What we're talking about when we talk about male privilege is the fact that historically men have been in positions of power and because they have been in these positions of power they tend to frame the way Can I come in here real quick?

00:05:33.000 Sure, yeah. I appreciate it.

00:05:35.000 I appreciate it. I want to make sure you have the full...

00:05:37.000 We have plenty of time, so there's no rush here.

00:05:39.000 Because you've just discussed men in power, and since they've been in power, the structures that provide privileges to them.

00:05:44.000 So that would seem an example of systemic.

00:05:46.000 So let's start with that and then get to societal.

00:05:50.000 Can you give me any examples, I guess, right now, 2018 of privileges, rights afforded systemically to males, not afforded to females.

00:06:01.000 So, okay, so this is, again, why I have a problem with the term privilege.

00:06:05.000 I actually prefer the term advantage over privilege, because, again, I think that people get really caught up in the idea of privilege.

00:06:13.000 Okay, okay, well, let's say advantage, privilege, but you just mentioned men in power, right?

00:06:16.000 So let's just, let's go with this.

00:06:18.000 White men in power in this country for a long time, mostly men in power right now in 2018. 0.76

00:06:23.000 There are a lot of female politicians, a lot of minorities, but let's, so let's go with that. 1.00

00:06:27.000 What rights...

00:06:29.000 Since you brought up people in power, these people in power, right, they've created the structures that be.

00:06:33.000 Right now, the structures that be exist in 2018.

00:06:37.000 Any rights or advantages, privileges afforded to men not officially afforded to women in 2018?

00:06:43.000 Well, what we are arguing here is that you guys are benefiting from a system where you guys were initially the only people in power, right?

00:06:51.000 You guys have like a centuries-long head start on us.

00:06:55.000 And because of that, these things don't change immediately.

00:06:58.000 So sure, women are equal to men. 1.00

00:07:01.000 In that we can vote, in that women are just as able to ascend to CEO positions and all this type of thing. 1.00

00:07:12.000 All of that is available to us.

00:07:14.000 But since men have been in power for longer than women have had the opportunity to be in power, you guys have a little bit of a head start on us. 0.86

00:07:23.000 And we all know that it's very difficult.

00:07:26.000 To change people's minds about something, right?

00:07:29.000 Sure. Okay. Before we move on, I just want to make sure that we would both agree on the premise, no rights not afforded.

00:07:34.000 Sure. On paper, there are no rights that a man has over... 0.96

00:07:40.000 Okay. I just wanted to clarify because you mentioned government systems of power, and so people will hear that and right away...

00:07:44.000 And I do feel that a lot of the left do that kind of...

00:07:46.000 I'm not saying you're doing that, but as a bait and switch, like, well, the systems of power that be...

00:07:50.000 And so people go, oh, wait, hold on a second.

00:07:52.000 What rights out there are unequally distributed?

00:07:54.000 What rights are not afforded?

00:07:56.000 So we both agree, okay, there are no rights afforded to men, not to women. 0.99

00:07:59.000 Okay. So everything is societal.

00:08:03.000 Everything we're talking about today then is societal.

00:08:05.000 Sure, yes. Okay. But so this is why I like to bring up, like, men in power, men in positions of power.

00:08:14.000 Another term that we get tripped up on a lot is the term patriarchy, right?

00:08:18.000 I know that the right hates that term, patriarchy.

00:08:21.000 And I think that it's because a lot of times...

00:08:23.000 It's just funny. Yeah, it's funny.

00:08:25.000 But it's literally defined as a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.

00:08:38.000 You can agree that that is the way things have been...

00:08:43.000 For most of history, right?

00:08:45.000 You and I can agree on that?

00:08:47.000 Well, no, not if we're talking about societally, no.

00:08:50.000 No, I'm talking politically, a system of society or government.

00:08:55.000 So let's talk government. Right.

00:08:57.000 So now we're going back to systemic.

00:08:59.000 So systemically, yes, for example, women didn't have the right to vote until men passed laws that they could. 0.94

00:09:05.000 Sure. I want to make sure we compartmentalize those because we've now moved on to societally.

00:09:10.000 Because even if you go back then, you look at the temperance movement, you look at the influence that women had in politics, and you look at prohibition, they had every bit as much of influence and power.

00:09:19.000 They just weren't necessarily in official positions of government.

00:09:21.000 So now we're kind of blurring those systemic and societal...

00:09:25.000 But see, those lines, those are not hard-defined lines, because one hand washes the other when it comes to this type of thing.

00:09:32.000 When it comes to privilege, it's all kind of interconnected, because patriarchy is also defined as a system of society in which the father or eldest male is head of the family, and you could trace dissent through the male line, right?

00:09:47.000 So it's all, whether it's society, whether it's government, men are in charge. 0.99

00:09:52.000 So today, again, we're going into the systems of power and men who are in power today, societally.

00:10:01.000 Privilege advantages. We moved on from rights.

00:10:03.000 Societally, how do you make the argument?

00:10:05.000 You know, like I said, this is a change my mind effectively right now.

00:10:09.000 The idea that we're taught in schools by, you know, gender studies professors, by far-left progressive feminists, this idea of privilege. 1.00

00:10:16.000 It's the word they use. You know, I know everyone has different words, but it's a word that's used when I was in college when we had to read Naomi Wolf.

00:10:23.000 Examples of that today, societally, I would love to see some concrete examples to see if we would agree or disagree.

00:10:30.000 Yeah, I mean, and I'm gonna keep pushing on this, it's like the fact that men have been the ones empowered, they are the ones who are able to dictate what is truly like, I'm sorry, I'm losing my train of thought right now because I understand what you're saying, but what I'm trying to explain to you is that These power positions influence our society today because...

00:10:59.000 Well, certainly they do.

00:11:01.000 I agree. Of course, listen, your past dictates a part of your present.

00:11:05.000 But, you know, listen, again, we're going back to people in positions of power.

00:11:09.000 They made men eligible for the draft and not women, right? 0.96

00:11:12.000 They made men have mandatory bucket duty and not women. 1.00

00:11:14.000 They made men an actual whipping post if they abused their wives and not women. 1.00

00:11:19.000 So, you know, no one's perfect, but we've gotten better.

00:11:22.000 And if we talk about...

00:11:24.000 Patriarchy, you will hear a lot of feminists say that these patriarchal systems are also negative for men as well. 1.00

00:11:32.000 We're not just saying we need to dismantle the patriarchy just because it's bad for women. 0.98

00:11:36.000 It's bad for men, too, for all of the reasons that you just talked about.

00:11:42.000 Since you guys have had the benefit of being in power for centuries, that's the norm.

00:11:47.000 You and I know that it is very, very difficult to change the idea of what is normal.

00:11:55.000 Your producer and I were joking before I came on about the fact that I have to have two different headphones, one for my computer and one for my iPhone, because when Apple changed their iPhone jack and got rid of it, people went nuts.

00:12:10.000 And that's a small change, right?

00:12:12.000 Because that's the norm. That's what you're used to.

00:12:14.000 So if you are used to seeing men in power, and if men are used to being in power, it's hard to kind of change that dynamic.

00:12:22.000 And because of that, like...

00:12:25.000 You just assume that men will be in power. 0.98

00:12:29.000 It's an assumption. It's a systemic assumption.

00:12:31.000 It's something that people just assume is the norm.

00:12:35.000 That is the norm. Someone once asked Ruth Bader Ginsburg, what is the What would make you happy?

00:12:42.000 Like, how many women on the Supreme Court would make you happy? 1.00

00:12:45.000 And she said all of them, because there have been all men on the Supreme Court, so why shouldn't there be all women?

00:12:51.000 Ah, see, that's where we differ.

00:12:52.000 And that's where I think, I think where we can come to our disagreement, maybe later on we'll continue along this path, is the solution.

00:12:59.000 See, I think that's a horrible answer.

00:13:00.000 I mean, I'm sure you can imagine why I would think that's the worst answer possible.

00:13:04.000 Sure, and I happen to agree with you, but the fact that all men is normal and all female is abnormal is the crux of what I'm talking about. 0.99

00:13:13.000 No, but that's not why. That's not why I think it's bad.

00:13:15.000 I think it's bad because I am all about, of course we support on this program, equal opportunity.

00:13:22.000 Ginsburg is talking about there's equal outcome.

00:13:24.000 I couldn't care less.

00:13:25.000 It's not because there's normal or abnormal, whether it's Clarence Thomas or Ginsburg.

00:13:29.000 I couldn't care less. I care about the most qualified person for the job.

00:13:32.000 I care about the constitutional scholar who will protect our rights. 1.00

00:13:36.000 I couldn't care less if they have a penis or a vagina. 1.00

00:13:38.000 And I think that's a big reason why young women, and particularly young men, the dangers 1.00

00:13:42.000 that we're seeing now, reject this idea of feminism, reject this idea of privilege and

00:13:46.000 advantages because they see a lot of disadvantages that men experience, not as a result of patriarchy,

00:13:50.000 but as a result of feminism, because of that mindset that it's time to ensure equal outcomes. 1.00

00:13:56.000 Saying all women on the Supreme Court, listen, if you're a man today, if you're a 22-year-old 0.78

00:14:00.000 male, you go, hold on a second, everyone here has equal rights. 0.77

00:14:05.000 And I don't want the Supreme Court to become an affirmative action land.

00:14:08.000 Thank you.

00:14:10.000 But, and I completely agree with you, it should not be an affirmative action, Blandon.

00:14:15.000 The people who argue for against male privilege are not saying that you should give positions to women simply because they're women.

00:14:24.000 We just all want to be treated equally, and we're not really at this point.

00:14:29.000 But if you do that, you can't insure an all-female Supreme Court. 1.00

00:14:32.000 So you understand the subtext there.

00:14:34.000 You can't. I do.

00:14:36.000 100%. 100%.

00:14:37.000 I cannot guarantee an all-female Supreme Court. 1.00

00:14:40.000 But the reason why I brought that up to begin with was to underline my argument that all male all the time is the norm. 0.97

00:14:51.000 It's the norm. That's 100% the norm.

00:14:53.000 It's been the norm for historically. I would not agree.

00:14:57.000 I would not agree that all male, all now, 100% is the norm. 0.99

00:15:00.000 You had females in the Republican primary and the Democratic national candidate was a female. 1.00

00:15:05.000 I don't agree that it's 100% the norm.

00:15:07.000 I don't agree. I believe that it's actually probably disproportionately not the norm.

00:15:13.000 If you look at the amount of women who go into certain fields, and then you look at how many of them make it to the top, whether it's stand-up comedy or the field of sciences, I don't agree that in 2018 it's the norm to see 100% men.

00:15:24.000 I think it's the norm now to try and manipulate the outcomes that there are more women. 1.00

00:15:28.000 I'm not saying that it is the norm.

00:15:30.000 I'm saying that it's the assumption that that's what you're going to see.

00:15:34.000 When people go to the doctor, they assume that it's a male doctor.

00:15:38.000 When people go to a lawyer, they assume that it's going to be a male lawyer, because these are I don't agree.

00:15:50.000 I hate to, I don't agree with the premise.

00:15:52.000 You don't have to agree with that.

00:15:54.000 It's not accurate. Like the medical field, the legal field, yes, let's do this.

00:15:58.000 We have to agree on fundamental facts, right?

00:16:00.000 Yes, most lawyers are men.

00:16:01.000 We can get into why that's the case.

00:16:03.000 But in the medical field, you have plenty of women. 1.00

00:16:05.000 Obviously, people will argue, many of them go into nursing, but you have plenty of female practitioners who are doctors. 1.00

00:16:10.000 I've had female doctors myself. 1.00

00:16:12.000 My wife has female doctors. 1.00

00:16:13.000 I don't agree with the premise that it has been the norm for a long time, or certainly today, for you to expect a male doctor.

00:16:19.000 I think you're seeing everything through the prism of gender here, and not through the prism of qualifications.

00:16:25.000 I don't believe that most people go, if a woman walks into their office when they're on that deli paper saying, whoa, hold on a second, you have breasts? 1.00

00:16:32.000 This is not what I signed up for.

00:16:34.000 I don't think... Anyone cares.

00:16:36.000 I really don't. I'm not saying that they care.

00:16:39.000 I'm not saying that they're going to get up and storm out if a woman walks in.

00:16:43.000 I'm just saying that there are certain things where you expect a man to show up.

00:16:48.000 And I think that that's very represented in...

00:16:50.000 You could even look at our own government.

00:16:52.000 Only 19% of the House of Representatives is female, and there are only 21 female senators sitting at this moment. 0.99

00:16:59.000 So, you know, that's not equal, right?

00:17:02.000 That's not, you know, all women. 1.00

00:17:04.000 It's mostly men. 0.81

00:17:05.000 And why do you think that, you know, over half the country are women? 1.00

00:17:10.000 Why do you think that is? Why do you think women aren't voting in the women? 1.00

00:17:14.000 Well, I think that we're not voting in the women just because they're women.

00:17:18.000 I think that, you know, I don't really want to get into the whole Trump-Hillary thing.

00:17:24.000 Hillary did win the popular vote. 0.95

00:17:25.000 We don't have to get into all of that s*** right now.

00:17:29.000 But we are voting in women. 1.00

00:17:33.000 I think that traditionally women have not been...

00:17:36.000 Pushed into or have not been motivated or have not even really been told that they can achieve Situations like this because we and we can get into sexism with this now women who enter Careers like politics who enter careers like anything where there's a high profile tend to be Put through, like, tend to be scrutinized a lot more than men.

00:18:04.000 I think that's your view. And that's probably...

00:18:06.000 And I don't think that that's...

00:18:08.000 And that's not statistically corroborating.

00:18:10.000 Here's my point. This is why I think it's so important, the way you reached out to me.

00:18:13.000 You said the fact that you set up as a male, and no one harassed...

00:18:18.000 This is a perfect example of male privilege.

00:18:19.000 You saw that, and you assumed it was because I was a male.

00:18:22.000 Just like right now, you're assuming that it's because these people running are female. 1.00

00:18:25.000 It's an assumption, and it's a...

00:18:27.000 And in this case, with me, it was a false one.

00:18:29.000 You immediately... All right, well...

00:18:34.000 Let me explain my criticism.

00:18:37.000 Can I do that? I know that you look like you want to say something else, but can I explain my criticism of you?

00:18:42.000 Your Change My Mind segment is an example of the lack of diversity that we talk about when we talk about politics.

00:18:53.000 I mentioned the 19% of the House of Representatives is female. 1.00

00:18:57.000 There are only 21 sitting female senators right now. 1.00

00:19:00.000 So the majority of people who are making the decisions in politics are men.

00:19:04.000 Empathy is hard.

00:19:06.000 It's really difficult to know what someone else is going through if you haven't lived it yourself.

00:19:13.000 So it's difficult for a man to understand something that a woman has gone through if they haven't experienced it themselves.

00:19:21.000 You can understand that, right?

00:19:23.000 Do you agree with that or no?

00:19:25.000 No, I don't agree with the premise that it's difficult to empathize.

00:19:29.000 If I can't empathize with the plight of someone else because I haven't personally experienced it, I'm a sociopath.

00:19:35.000 Well, a lot of people have problems with empathy.

00:19:38.000 A lot of people, like, I can give you...

00:19:41.000 Well, let's go back to what you were saying, I guess, so before we get...

00:19:43.000 So you were saying that was an example.

00:19:45.000 So use my example.

00:19:46.000 Okay, so your example.

00:19:48.000 So... So, your Change My Mind segment, to me, was an example of setting up this typical...

00:19:59.000 Privileged patriarchal system that we have where a man is in power and it's up to me as a constituent to change your mind because you already have an opinion on it, right?

00:20:08.000 So you were kind of putting together like a mini version of what women feel like we have to do. 1.00

00:20:16.000 Since women and people of color, anyone who is a minority in this country, And who is not represented has to change the mind or, you know, advocate for themselves because they are not represented themselves. 0.66

00:20:34.000 And you would now acknowledge that your premise was incorrect.

00:20:39.000 Yes. Well, I mean, I still think that that setup is an imperfect setup if you will take a little constructive criticism.

00:20:47.000 Go ahead. How should it be set up?

00:20:50.000 And also a big reason, by the way, that it was set up that way is because of females repeatedly violently assaulting me, I'm sure, if you've seen previous videos. 0.99

00:20:57.000 But how do you think it should be set up so that it would not mirror a quote-unquote sort of microcosm of a patriarchal system?

00:21:04.000 The change my mind positioning is what really, it's more of like, I have this opinion, it is your responsibility to change my mind, instead of being like, hey, let's enter into a discussion like this.

00:21:16.000 You almost said the word debate, admit it, and then you had to catch yourself.

00:21:19.000 So let me explain to you why, and maybe this will be illuminating.

00:21:24.000 The Change My Mind segments, by the way, are pretty popular.

00:21:27.000 It's the complete opposite of cable news.

00:21:29.000 That's the design behind this.

00:21:31.000 So we just recently had one on Pro Gun Change My Mind.

00:21:33.000 Yeah, I saw that one. And the reason for this is, and most of the time they're incredibly civil.

00:21:37.000 Ironically enough, the only time we've ever had people violently assault or scream have been feminists on campus. 0.99

00:21:43.000 They haven't been the best ambassadors.

00:21:45.000 So the purpose for this, and by the way, understand that my view is the unpopular view of I'm going into a campus where the vast majority of people would agree with your presuppositions and not mine.

00:21:58.000 And so I'm going into actually not only neutral territory, but adversarial territory, presenting a differing point of view and allowing anyone Male, female, black, white.

00:22:10.000 Take your pick. Your guess is as good as mine.

00:22:12.000 Whatever gender walks along down the trail. 1.00

00:22:14.000 Anyone to have a conversation.

00:22:16.000 The onus is on them to present to me why I'm wrong because I am taking a more contrarian view than what's taught in schools because everything you've just said I learned in women's studies in college.

00:22:26.000 So the reason why I took issue with it because it was a male privilege thing is because as a male, You were saying, I am male, and I think that male privilege is a myth, changed my mind.

00:22:38.000 So you're asking me as a female to validate my experience.

00:22:43.000 No, I'm asking you as a critical thinker.

00:22:46.000 Okay, well, the way it came across to me, and I know a lot of the people that I follow on Twitter, is that you were asking me to validate my experiences within male privilege, which is why I think that you got such a harsh reaction to it from Twitter fans.

00:23:02.000 That's from Twitter feminists. 1.00

00:23:03.000 And there's the microcosm. You are really in an echo chamber, a bubble, because you can look at the like-to-dislike ratio.

00:23:08.000 You have people coming in going, listen, I voted for Bernie Sanders, and this is what we need more of, is this kind of a discussion.

00:23:14.000 The only person seeing it through the prism of gender or seeing it as an example of patriarchy, which, by the way, is false.

00:23:21.000 It is completely...

00:23:22.000 I always try to be as civil as possible.

00:23:25.000 The premise is factually incorrect.

00:23:27.000 Are the feminists on Twitter? 1.00

00:23:29.000 And I think the reason you're seeing more and more young women not identify as feminists is because they feel increasingly disconnected.

00:23:36.000 Someone looks at a table where they see someone sit down for hours and they're willing to have a cup of coffee and a conversation with anyone, and they see only the feminists saying, that's offensive for one, two, three reasons, or that's an example of patriarchy for XYZ. Nobody outside of Twitter feminists, no one in real life, Agrees with that. 0.54

00:23:56.000 Campus and feminists. 0.99

00:23:57.000 And so hopefully maybe you can understand if you look at it why the overwhelming reaction was positive from both men and women alike.

00:24:05.000 I mean, I would also argue that you live within and your Twitter and your followers kind of exist within your own echo chamber and bubble.

00:24:13.000 You could completely disagree with me on that.

00:24:16.000 No, because you're here. Well, sure, absolutely.

00:24:19.000 And you broke through that mold, 100%.

00:24:21.000 I know that a lot of...

00:24:23.000 I know that I, as a Twitter feminist, a self-proclaimed Twitter feminist, have broken through into conservative bubbles before as well.

00:24:31.000 So... You know, I don't necessarily believe that I just exist within an echo chamber.

00:24:36.000 I think that we all surround ourselves.

00:24:38.000 Your point of view does. Your point of view does.

00:24:40.000 It's very, very niche.

00:24:41.000 It's a very small slice.

00:24:42.000 And the reason I bring it up is because you said, I think that's why you saw such a strong, harsh reaction.

00:24:47.000 I didn't. Less than 1% of the reaction.

00:24:50.000 I mean, across the board.

00:24:52.000 I said, from Twitter, Femi.

00:24:54.000 Okay, from Twitter. I think a lot of, you know, a lot of blogs, a lot of websites as well.

00:24:59.000 There's a very, there's a huge disconnect between the feminist movement, the media who supports them, and mainstream Americans, and I mean left or right. 0.80

00:25:07.000 And so I would just like to, before we move on, I think I'd like to get some specifics if we can.

00:25:12.000 Would it stand to reason that, you know, your reaction was to say, hey, the fact that you set up here is an example of male privilege.

00:25:20.000 Have you ever gotten threats? And the fact that you were incorrect, because the reason I set that up was security, getting permits.

00:25:27.000 Yes, I've received death threats.

00:25:29.000 Yes, I'm on ISIS's kill list. 0.98

00:25:30.000 Yes, I've had feminists walk up and take a swing at me. 1.00

00:25:33.000 So the fact that you saw through that lens and were so incorrect...

00:25:39.000 I would like you to move through this conversation accepting the possibility that maybe you are just as wrong on your other fundamental premises.

00:25:46.000 I believe you are but I certainly want you to present them.

00:25:50.000 Sure. I mean, and I'm going through this hoping that you may understand that you may be incorrect on some of your fundamental premises.

00:25:59.000 I very well could. I mean, I think that that's what a discussion is.

00:26:02.000 I think that you have to open yourself up to a discussion like that.

00:26:05.000 I don't think that I need to, I should be the only person moving through this conversation.

00:26:09.000 No, no, I don't either.

00:26:10.000 I think you were a little more aggressive entering into it, so that's why I wanted to make sure that we clarified that.

00:26:15.000 And let me clarify my position.

00:26:17.000 I certainly do not disagree with the idea that there are advantages that men enjoy in society.

00:26:22.000 I certainly do not disagree with that.

00:26:24.000 Just as there are... Just a litany of examples of advantages that women enjoy. 1.00

00:26:29.000 I would actually posit that women enjoy far more advantages in 2018. 0.77

00:26:34.000 Well, I feel like that's and that's where the interesting parts of this discussion is going to come down.

00:26:39.000 And I'm really, I'm actually interested in getting and talking to you about that type of thing.

00:26:43.000 Because I think that the things that you see as...

00:26:47.000 Female advantages are not necessarily so. 0.58

00:26:51.000 And I also just want to say before we get into all of that, that in discussing male privilege, any logical human who talks about privilege and who talks about why privilege should be We'll never say that people who experience privilege live perfect, cushy lives. People who experience privilege suffer all the time.

00:27:15.000 I'm not saying that because men have privilege, they don't suffer.

00:27:18.000 Like, men are more likely, I think the statistic is from the Department of Why not?

00:27:39.000 Because women aren't gaining an advantage because you are getting killed, experiencing violent crimes at higher rates. 1.00

00:27:48.000 When we talk about privilege, it's a way that you have an advantage that women have a disadvantage on. 1.00

00:27:54.000 So you don't believe, and that's not the only example, I don't want to hinge on that, but you don't believe that the fact that criminals select primarily male targets for violent assaults, you don't believe that that is advantageous for women.

00:28:08.000 Well, alright, so we have to break that statistic down then, because I believe, I don't have the statistic in front of me, I believe that the statistic is men are more likely to be murder victims.

00:28:24.000 By strangers. I believe that that's what the statistic is.

00:28:27.000 I have to look it up. They're more likely to be the victim of violent crime.

00:28:29.000 And by the way, also just as likely, if not more, depending on the statistic of being sexually assaulted.

00:28:34.000 So, I mean, this list can go on.

00:28:37.000 I mean, we can go down individually, but yes, all of them.

00:28:39.000 Yeah, but so, and you said, wait, what was the last part of the statistic?

00:28:48.000 And also, as likely or more likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

00:28:52.000 Alright, but I think that the statistic that I'm looking at, and again, we can compare statistics all day, is that women are actually more likely to be victims of sexual violence or domestic violence.

00:29:05.000 But they're not though, and they're not when you account for the amount of sexual assault that goes on in prisons.

00:29:11.000 What statistic are you looking at?

00:29:15.000 This would go from the FBI or CDC, I believe.

00:29:17.000 But men, when you include men in prisons, incarcerated men, the rate of sexual assault against men goes up significantly.

00:29:24.000 Sure. And that's often not included.

00:29:27.000 Yeah, it is often not included.

00:29:30.000 But what I'm trying to explain to you is that privilege does not...

00:29:35.000 Like, that is not a female... 1.00

00:29:37.000 Like, that does not... That's not an example of female privilege, that we're murdered less, because it's not an advantage of ours. 1.00

00:29:47.000 The statistic that people like to bring up a lot when discussing male privilege is the pay gap, which I know is something that a lot of conservatives claim is not a true thing.

00:30:00.000 But it was the Department of Labor, I believe here.

00:30:03.000 I have it right in front of me here.

00:30:04.000 The Department of Labor put out That statistic that said 78 cents of every dollar is what women make. 1.00

00:30:15.000 They make that compared to men.

00:30:17.000 And the numbers degrade when you talk about women of color. 0.99

00:30:23.000 Hispanic women, black women, they make less than that. 1.00

00:30:26.000 I know you said we can argue about stats so we're blue in the face, so I don't want to take mine. 0.94

00:30:29.000 I think it was the Department of Justice, by the way.

00:30:32.000 But I'll take yours, because obviously, let people know there's nothing up my sleeves.

00:30:37.000 I didn't feed you that stat.

00:30:39.000 Totally. You're talking about, right now, the 78% pay gap, okay, and you said it then...

00:30:45.000 It degrades if you go to women of color. 1.00

00:30:47.000 Now, let me take your stat, because you said, okay, it gets even wider if you take women of color. 1.00

00:30:51.000 How does that gap narrow?

00:30:53.000 Why have virtually all reputable economists said that it's a myth?

00:30:59.000 Because you just accounted for variables, very intelligently, that women of color, when you add different variables, you know, that pay gap may be 68%. 0.99

00:31:05.000 But that pay gap becomes 4%, 2%, 0%.

00:31:09.000 Sometimes a plus 1% or 2% for women.

00:31:14.000 When what? Are you talking about different industries?

00:31:18.000 No, not even just that.

00:31:20.000 See, that stat that you're talking about simply takes the average income of full-time working women versus men. 0.74

00:31:26.000 Now, when you take into account not only industry, but more specifically job, more specifically hours worked, travel, how long they've been in that position, that gap disappears.

00:31:38.000 As a matter of fact, there are new studies coming out, particularly in science and tech, engineering and STEM, where women make more. 0.88

00:31:44.000 They're certainly admitted at...

00:31:45.000 Vastly higher rates because women choose not to go into those fields.

00:31:49.000 So we now have provided incentives for them to where they actually make as much as men. 0.81

00:31:53.000 So you can't use stats one way and say, well, and then that gap widens if they're black. 0.99

00:31:57.000 And then that gap widens if they're, well, hold on a second.

00:31:59.000 That gap narrows if they're both in the medical field.

00:32:02.000 That gap is now non-existent if the female and male are both doctors working the same hours in the same state. 0.97

00:32:08.000 There is no gap. Sure, but there are also statistics that show that women are promoted less because employers are afraid that they're going to get pregnant and that they're not going to stick around for all that often.

00:32:24.000 They're not given raises at the same pace that men tend to be.

00:32:30.000 Do women get pregnant more often than men? 1.00

00:32:33.000 Yeah, but that's not something that should be held against us because it cuts both ways.

00:32:37.000 Women are told... 1.00

00:32:41.000 I'm sorry, but it's not something that should factor into whether or not I get a promotion about whether I may be pregnant down the line.

00:32:50.000 How much money you will cost or make the company should not be factored into how much money I pay you.

00:32:57.000 You can, God forbid, get sick and have to take a long leave of absence from your company.

00:33:05.000 Should that be factored in?

00:33:06.000 But it is not a statistical 50-50 likelihood, sometimes more when you get over the age of 30, that I'm going to get sick.

00:33:12.000 It is a statistical likelihood that most women, this is where feminists disconnect from, most women want to make babies. 1.00

00:33:18.000 Most women want to have babies. 1.00

00:33:20.000 And so women... End up leaving the workforce for at least nine months. 1.00

00:33:24.000 I would argue against that.

00:33:27.000 That is an opinion that most women want to have babies. 1.00

00:33:30.000 I think that society puts a lot of pressure on women to have babies. 1.00

00:33:34.000 More than men? More than men? 0.77

00:33:36.000 100%. Because women are... 1.00

00:33:38.000 We are damned if we do, damned if we don't. 0.97

00:33:41.000 If we decide that we want to have babies, you just said we're going to be costing the company more, so we're not getting raises as often.

00:33:50.000 If we choose not to have children, we are as...

00:33:56.000 I think it was... Who was that senator here?

00:33:58.000 I have it written down.

00:34:00.000 It was that... Courtland Sykes said that he did not want his daughters to be career-obsessed banshees.

00:34:09.000 So that is an example of the idea of what women are if we choose not to have children and we choose to pursue a career. 1.00

00:34:16.000 We are career-obsessed banshees.

00:34:18.000 And that double standard does not exist for men.

00:34:21.000 Do you think that's exclusive to women?

00:34:22.000 You think it's exclusive of women that people hate their bosses? 1.00

00:34:25.000 No, I don't think it's exclusive to women.

00:34:27.000 And again, a statistical likelihood, you talked about this, banshees.

00:34:32.000 Yeah, I think that's actually, I think that's a pretty funny example.

00:34:34.000 I'd probably describe a lot of bosses who I had, including some at Fox News, as banshees, men or women, screeching banshees, not big fans of them. 0.98

00:34:41.000 But the point is, you just said damned if you do, damned if you don't. 0.98

00:34:45.000 I just heard that women had a choice. 1.00

00:34:47.000 Guess what a man has? 1.00

00:34:49.000 Damned if you do. And guess what? 0.99

00:34:51.000 Do. Because we don't get to have babies. 1.00

00:34:54.000 We don't get leave.

00:34:55.000 There isn't maternity leave. 0.97

00:34:56.000 And I know you can point to examples like Sweden and places where men do have paternity leave and they don't contribute anything other than occasionally a new form of birth control every century.

00:35:03.000 But we're talking about here in the United States of America.

00:35:05.000 I certainly would not consider that patriarchy.

00:35:07.000 And I believe that you should have paternity leave. 0.97

00:35:08.000 I think that you 100%, if you and your wife decide to have children, you should have paternity leave. 0.90

00:35:14.000 Go for it. Well, I guess it's a good thing that the white men in power voted for maternity leave and nine months off and nothing for us. 0.67

00:35:20.000 So you can thank them for that.

00:35:22.000 That is something that I completely think that is wrong.

00:35:27.000 It's wrong. And I think that it goes back to the fact that women... 1.00

00:35:32.000 Again, I'm giving you the example that traditional patriarchal mindsets affect you too.

00:35:39.000 You should 100% get nine months off if you decide to have a child.

00:35:45.000 And let me say this, while we're getting personal, you should 100% if you date a man who wants nine months off, leave him.

00:35:51.000 That's not the guy you want providing for you.

00:35:54.000 Why? No, I wouldn't do it, and I don't know any man who would want to do it.

00:35:58.000 It'd be nice to get a few weeks off, you know, maybe go down to Kauai, have a luau, that'd be fun.

00:36:02.000 Nine months off? No.

00:36:03.000 But let me, I certainly, I think you went to the worst example right off the bat, and I think you'll see that most people don't agree with you on that.

00:36:10.000 So let's go down the list to other examples.

00:36:12.000 Because certainly I think you would concede, we would both agree, there is an economic argument to be made there as to why we're just talking bottom line dollars and cents with pregnancy.

00:36:21.000 That's not indicative of, period, overall females in the workforce versus men.

00:36:26.000 So let's remove pregnancy from the table and move on down to advantages that you believe are afforded to men, not to women. 0.72

00:36:36.000 So, I think that we've...

00:36:38.000 Hold on. Let me center myself now.

00:36:41.000 We talked about rape threats, right?

00:36:43.000 I got a lot of rape threats.

00:36:44.000 That's an odd sequence. Let me center myself.

00:36:47.000 Rape! Let's jump right to rape. 1.00

00:36:50.000 I know. Well, that's what's on my notes. 0.98

00:36:52.000 I have notes. I appreciate that you didn't get offended at that.

00:36:55.000 That was a joke. So, I appreciate that we'll have a conversation.

00:36:58.000 Go ahead. Any notes you have.

00:36:59.000 And I hope... Any notes I have.

00:37:02.000 So... You talk about violent threats.

00:37:06.000 Do you get rape threats? I'm really curious to hear if you get rape threats.

00:37:09.000 Yes. Particularly from Muslims. Really? 1.00

00:37:11.000 Yeah, thousands per day. Thousands per day, from Muslims particularly.

00:37:16.000 Yes. Okay.

00:37:18.000 All right. Well, you are someone...

00:37:20.000 I don't know many men who get rape threats. 0.57

00:37:23.000 And to me, rape threats are...

00:37:24.000 You ever watched Oz? No. 0.51

00:37:28.000 One episode. No.

00:37:30.000 Shawshank! Green Mile! 0.96

00:37:33.000 Take your pick! I mean, you're talking about the prison system, which is a completely different conversation.

00:37:42.000 What do you think a man is saying, this colloquialism, where a man calls a man bitch? 0.98

00:37:50.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:37:52.000 Yeah. So probably just because they're looking at what gets under your skin.

00:38:15.000 When, you know, an angry online jihadi says that he's going to rape me, I get a chuckle, I make sure he's not doxing me, and then I move along, you know, down the trail. 0.85

00:38:24.000 I know that upsets women more. 0.99

00:38:26.000 So these are online trolls.

00:38:27.000 Yeah, and it upsets women more because it is a legitimate, violent threat towards us. 1.00

00:38:34.000 It's something that, you know...

00:38:36.000 And it's not toward a man?

00:38:39.000 Well, you, if you, okay, so you're talking, if you remove the prison system, because that is a specific, that is a culture that is not representative of the culture at large.

00:38:52.000 It is a very specific thing.

00:38:53.000 It's representative of matriarchy, I'll tell you that, because men are far more likely to be incarcerated and for longer times for the same crimes as women. 0.99

00:38:59.000 So I think it's pivotal that we touch on that at some point in this conversation.

00:39:01.000 We should touch on that at some point, but what I'm saying is that if you remove that, women are more likely to experience sexual violence than men.

00:39:09.000 Okay? Can you concede that point to me if we remove prisons?

00:39:13.000 If you remove prisons, sure.

00:39:15.000 Yes. I don't think you should, because I think we include the prison system, for example, and I think I've heard you discuss this point or tweet about it, that black men are five times as likely to be incarcerated.

00:39:25.000 Yes! Maybe, 100%. And it's a terrible, terrible thing.

00:39:28.000 Well, it's like the pay gap stat, right?

00:39:29.000 So you use that, but you don't account for... 0.99

00:39:31.000 Black men are that amount more likely to commit crimes than men. 0.98

00:39:34.000 Now, that being said, let's go the other way. 0.99

00:39:36.000 Men are more likely to get longer sentences and more likely to be punished and sent to prison for the exact same crime as women. 0.95

00:39:45.000 Yes, and that is an issue.

00:39:47.000 That's a huge issue. Why would we exclude it from the sexual assault conversation?

00:39:50.000 This is an example of a systemic advantage.

00:39:52.000 I'm trying to explain why, like, men are, women get rape threats from men more than we get rape threats from other women, okay?

00:40:03.000 Okay, men get rape threats and are raped more by men than they are by women.

00:40:09.000 I'm talking about the way that men and women interact with one another here, right?

00:40:13.000 So when we're talking about privilege and we're talking about all this stuff, women 1.00

00:40:17.000 are more likely to experience sexual assault from men than men are from women.

00:40:25.000 And that, you know, you're describing some of the workings of a patriarchy there, because

00:40:29.000 For a long time, men had dominion over women's bodies. 1.00

00:40:34.000 Marital rape wasn't something that was illegal in this country until 1993. 0.77

00:40:38.000 And to this day, there are still some states where marital rape is not tried the same way as regular rape.

00:40:46.000 And it just shows that— And it's terrible.

00:40:49.000 Listen, you shouldn't rape someone, even if she said I do, okay?

00:40:52.000 We both agree on that.

00:40:53.000 I'm certainly not a rape apologist.

00:40:55.000 But again, you're cherry-picking data, and you do this a lot.

00:40:58.000 You're not acknowledging that men were also publicly humiliated, flogged, beaten, dragged through the streets if they so much as laid a hand on their wife.

00:41:05.000 Never so if a wife takes a swat at a husband. 1.00

00:41:08.000 So when we're talking societally, there have been different standards applied, of course, to both men and women.

00:41:14.000 But both enjoy different advantages and disadvantages.

00:41:17.000 I'm certainly not seeing this as an example of today, the society at large, favoring men.

00:41:23.000 I really would say in 2018, it's the opposite.

00:41:26.000 If you and I, for example, if you and I go into the field of science and technology, okay?

00:41:30.000 If you and I have the exact same scores, if you and I went to the exact same school, if you and I are just as qualified, you're getting the spot, not me.

00:41:38.000 Are you sure of that?

00:41:40.000 Statistically, yes. Are you 100% sure of that?

00:41:42.000 Statistically, yes. The statistical likelihood?

00:41:45.000 Yes. Well, you can see that there are situations in which if a male and a female are up against the same job, the male will get...

00:41:55.000 I think I sent you one of these studies.

00:41:57.000 It was the study of... You did.

00:41:59.000 I remember it. If you don't have it in front of you, I remember it.

00:42:02.000 It was a 2012 study.

00:42:04.000 Yeah. Yeah, it was a 2012 study about, I believe, in science and technology.

00:42:09.000 And this was a very small sample size.

00:42:11.000 About 100-something CVs were used.

00:42:14.000 And the problem with it, and this is something that feminists use a lot, kind of like the pay gap. 1.00

00:42:19.000 They use a stat that they know really isn't accurate, and they know it's not something that would hold water when it comes to the court of arguments.

00:42:25.000 It's a very small sample size.

00:42:27.000 CV. The pay gap doesn't.

00:42:28.000 Come on. You know that. This is a very small sample study.

00:42:32.000 2012. To say that we know that it's not going to hold water is just insulting and is just ridiculous. 0.92

00:42:38.000 It's slightly so. I'll give you that. 0.81

00:42:39.000 It was slightly insulting. It's a little condescending.

00:42:41.000 I'll give you that.

00:42:43.000 It is. But statistically, it still is something that...

00:42:45.000 Put it this way. It is either startling that the feminist movement at large have never read from including female economists...

00:42:54.000 Or it's startling that they have and ignore it.

00:42:57.000 It's one of the two. But the statistic is a statistic.

00:43:00.000 It doesn't care about which group it's offending.

00:43:03.000 It's just not accurate.

00:43:04.000 Now, when it comes to this study, if I'm not mistaken, I believe it was a 2012 study that used a very small sample size, and it looked at people specifically in entry-level jobs.

00:43:14.000 Here's the thing. Feminists reached back to 2012 to take that study. 1.00

00:43:18.000 But we have other studies, and we have meta-analyses.

00:43:21.000 There was a 2015 study that looked at the same thing.

00:43:23.000 I believe it used about 800-something applicants.

00:43:26.000 And when it actually took into account people in different jobs, people, you know, becoming tenured professors, you know, the salary of a biology professor, it actually found that at higher levels of education, women in the STEM fields were much more likely to be accepted with the same parameters.

00:43:41.000 This was a more comprehensive study.

00:43:43.000 It included a larger sample size, and it's more recent.

00:43:47.000 I don't know why all of the blogs and feminists on Twitter haven't been able to find a 2015 study, but it's more valid and substantial. 0.69

00:43:55.000 And I think that's important.

00:43:57.000 I'm sure you weren't aware of it.

00:44:00.000 I certainly am not attributing to any kind of malice what I think can be attributed to not knowing.

00:44:06.000 But it is remarkable that a 2012 study is still used to prove that point.

00:44:12.000 Is that the study that you're talking about right now is specific to the STEM industry, to those types of jobs?

00:44:20.000 Yes, because I believe you sent me the one, the 2012 study on that.

00:44:24.000 That was what you tweeted me. Okay.

00:44:26.000 So, yes. Hold on.

00:44:28.000 If you want, I can probably find it and bring it up pretty quickly.

00:44:31.000 No, I believe you.

00:44:32.000 It's not a, you know, I completely, yeah.

00:44:37.000 Sure, you don't have to look it up.

00:44:40.000 I'm sure that it exists.

00:44:42.000 I will happily look it up after you and I are done.

00:44:44.000 I can send it to you or we can put it kind of in the description.

00:44:47.000 But yes, there was a 2015 study that included a much larger sample size.

00:44:50.000 So okay, so let's just, if we assume that I'm not lying, let's take that off the table.

00:44:55.000 So now that's gone.

00:44:59.000 Alright, so if you still want to talk about jobs, and you will probably tell me that this is not, it does not hold water because it's anecdotal.

00:45:07.000 There have been multiple times that trans men have discussed their experiences with privilege once they have transitioned.

00:45:18.000 So when they were presenting as female to when they were presenting as male.

00:45:23.000 So once they started presenting as male, they would start Experiencing privilege in their day-to-day lives here.

00:45:31.000 A couple of pieces of privilege that they have experienced.

00:45:38.000 I'm suddenly funny.

00:45:39.000 I didn't want to laugh because I didn't know if you were meant to.

00:45:42.000 Okay, that's funny. A couple pieces of privilege.

00:45:44.000 That's good. No, no, no.

00:45:46.000 The first point was I'm suddenly more funny.

00:45:49.000 The trans man. Oh, I thought you were saying it was a joke.

00:45:53.000 A couple pieces of privilege. No, no, no.

00:45:54.000 That was pretty good, though.

00:45:57.000 That they're suddenly more funny.

00:45:59.000 That they're taken more seriously.

00:46:01.000 That they rarely get interrupted.

00:46:04.000 That they get paid more.

00:46:07.000 Clothing is more practical.

00:46:08.000 They get more free passes.

00:46:11.000 They're more likely to arrive home safely after walking alone at night.

00:46:16.000 They don't have to worry about keeping an eye on their drink as often as they did when they were presenting as females. 1.00

00:46:21.000 They're not told by strangers to smile.

00:46:25.000 They don't have strangers giving uninvited opinions about their bodies as they pass by.

00:46:31.000 Again, that's not surprising to me.

00:46:33.000 I mean, I'm sure you can imagine that a lot of those things aren't because they're a man.

00:46:40.000 How often do you get yelled at when you walk down the street? 0.99

00:46:46.000 Like, hey baby, like, you know, nice ass, like whatever. 0.99

00:46:51.000 Like, how often do you get cackled when you walk down the street? 1.00

00:46:53.000 Well, I don't have a nice ass, so it'd be hard to know. 1.00

00:46:56.000 I have a terrible ass. 1.00

00:46:57.000 I have a giant ass. A couple of things. 1.00

00:47:00.000 So, first off, you're right.

00:47:02.000 I really am not super interested in the anecdotal, but I'll entertain this discussion for a bit because I do find it interesting.

00:47:07.000 Sure. Yeah.

00:47:20.000 and how it does not benefit... it also is... sorry my mouth is getting dry... has negative

00:47:25.000 ramifications for men as well as women. It sounds to me like you're talking

00:47:28.000 about how gender is societal. These pressures to make these decisions, to

00:47:33.000 look a certain way, to act a certain way, to go into certain fields...

00:47:37.000 From what I've been understanding, gender is societal. 0.99

00:47:45.000 Gender is, yes, is a societal construct.

00:47:50.000 Okay, good. Yes, I believe that.

00:47:52.000 So, I ask this because I'm confused.

00:47:55.000 Please explain your views on transgenderism.

00:47:59.000 Meaning? If gender is a social construct, how can one be transgender? 0.73

00:48:07.000 I don't believe that there are many biological differences between men and women either, so I don't really understand what you're saying here.

00:48:14.000 And what's the point to being transgender? 1.00

00:48:16.000 We're talking about because they want to go through biological transitions, talking about hormones, sex change operations.

00:48:22.000 If gender is a social construct, This idea of transgenderism, not transsexualism, you use the word transgender, would have to mean that a male is born into the wrong body, the wrong gender, the wrong brain. 0.80

00:48:36.000 And a female is born into a male body. 0.92

00:48:41.000 So if gender is a social construct, how can one be transgender?

00:48:45.000 Or how could you possibly support someone trying to conform to the gender constructs as created by society? 0.70

00:48:51.000 I don't necessarily believe that they are born into the wrong body.

00:48:54.000 I think that they are assigned the wrong body at birth. 0.99

00:48:57.000 So I think that, you know, a doctor births a baby and he sees that it has a penis. 0.99

00:49:04.000 He says, this is a boy, right? 0.98

00:49:06.000 That's typically how it goes.

00:49:08.000 It's a boy. It's got a penis. 1.00

00:49:10.000 So they are assigned that gender at birth. 0.85

00:49:14.000 So transgenderism is, you know, I don't understand how you can go to transgenderism and talk about advantages when you say that gender is a social construct. 0.99

00:49:32.000 Transgenderism fails to hold up if gender is a social construct. 0.97

00:49:35.000 Gender has to be biological. 0.98

00:49:37.000 It has to. You can't take a biological hammer to a societal nail.

00:49:44.000 It doesn't make any sense. Logically, it doesn't make any sense.

00:49:47.000 You can't be born into the wrong gender if gender is a social construct.

00:49:49.000 And that's one thing that I find incredibly ironic where women talk about, feminists talk about, we're forced to live up to these expectations. 1.00

00:49:55.000 We're forced to look a certain way, talk a certain way, act a certain way.

00:49:58.000 And then a man says, I've always felt like I wanted to look, talk, and act that certain way.

00:50:01.000 Really? You look like a real-life Barbie doll because you've had some estrogen replacement therapy.

00:50:05.000 Come on over. We'll accept you as one of our own.

00:50:07.000 Transgender men to women are basically pretending to be Every negative stereotype you've talked about presented for women societally. 0.77

00:50:18.000 I actually can't believe that we're having this conversation now because it is completely bonkers what you are trying to argue with me right now.

00:50:26.000 To say that a person who was assigned the wrong gender at birth and who had a lifetime of gender biases pushed upon them, where they had to be hyper-masculine because they were assigned male at birth, That they had to dress a certain way when they didn't feel like that was the way that they wanted to dress.

00:50:52.000 They felt feminine.

00:50:53.000 They're not...

00:50:54.000 They felt feminine because of societal pressure, which you seek to destroy. 0.64

00:51:01.000 So that's a bad thing.

00:51:02.000 What are you talking about?

00:51:04.000 I'm saying that if a person is assigned male at birth, okay, and they identify as female, they have... 0.64

00:51:15.000 An entire life of male gender tropes pushed upon them.

00:51:22.000 But they identify as female.

00:51:26.000 But they identify as female.

00:51:28.000 They're identifying with the gender tropes thrust upon females. 1.00

00:51:31.000 You understand? Again, it has to be consistent going both ways.

00:51:35.000 I don't identify with the societal pressures of being a male.

00:51:38.000 I identify as female.

00:51:40.000 What do you identify with when it comes to being female? 0.99

00:51:43.000 Is it biology? No, I don't believe, and we can go into this if you really want to, I don't believe that there are many biological differences between men and women.

00:51:54.000 Really? At all.

00:51:55.000 Yes, I do. And we can discuss this if you would like to.

00:51:58.000 I'm probably not the best person to discuss this because I was assigned female at birth.

00:52:02.000 I identify as female.

00:52:04.000 I am cisgendered. I am straight.

00:52:06.000 It would probably behoove you to have a trans individual on here discussing this. 0.94

00:52:10.000 We've had many. But...

00:52:12.000 Yeah, I know that you have, but this specifically...

00:52:16.000 So, do you want to get into this?

00:52:19.000 It doesn't sound like you do, and I don't know that we'll make a lot of headway.

00:52:22.000 So, you know, dealer's choice.

00:52:24.000 We don't have a ton of time because we do have another guest to pre-tape, actually, from the high school in Florida where the shooting took place.

00:52:31.000 So, I don't want to...

00:52:32.000 Yeah, he's actually...

00:52:33.000 He would be taking a contrarian viewpoint, not super thrilled with his classmates.

00:52:37.000 So, I would like you to...

00:52:39.000 Let me ask you this. It seems to me like, like you said, we can talk about that with a transgender person.

00:52:44.000 I don't think we'll make a ton of progress there, but I really do appreciate you taking the time to be here.

00:52:50.000 I would put forth these examples certainly in 2018, and I think if our goal is to help People, male or female, it would behoove us all to be honest.

00:53:03.000 And I think that you have a lot of young men and I think feminists don't really understand how out of touch they are with a lot of young men as well as young women.

00:53:10.000 When you look at young men, they go, hold on a second, we make up 90 something percent of workplace deaths.

00:53:15.000 We're three something times more likely to commit suicide.

00:53:19.000 We obviously are more likely to be sexually assaulted.

00:53:22.000 We're five times more likely to be incarcerated.

00:53:24.000 We're more likely to be incarcerated for the same crime.

00:53:26.000 We are dominated by women at every aspect of education, from kindergarten through college, outside of SAT scores. 1.00

00:53:34.000 They get more placement.

00:53:36.000 I think we're good to go.

00:53:55.000 You'll see some very negative ramifications within generation.

00:53:58.000 And I would hate to see the pendulum swing so far the other way.

00:54:01.000 Because listen, I'm more traditional.

00:54:03.000 I know sometimes that offends feminists, but I'm married. 0.98

00:54:05.000 I hold the door for my wife. 0.97

00:54:06.000 I believe in chivalry.

00:54:08.000 I really do believe in treating women respectfully.

00:54:10.000 And I do see a lot of young sort of men's rights activists going so far the other way now where they feel as though they've been so disrespected and their voices haven't been heard that they respond disrespectfully.

00:54:22.000 And I don't think that's productive for anyone.

00:54:24.000 And so I think truth is important in this discussion above all else.

00:54:29.000 All I want to say is that when people are talking about privilege, we're not trying to say that people are actively acting in a way that...

00:54:41.000 Like, men are acting in a way that makes... 0.64

00:54:43.000 That they believe that they deserve more.

00:54:46.000 We know that. Right.

00:54:47.000 The majority of men are just behaving in a system that tends to... 0.97

00:54:56.000 And you don't agree with this, pat them on the back more than they pat women on the back.

00:55:00.000 And when we say check your privilege, all we're trying to say is acknowledge us, acknowledge our experiences.

00:55:08.000 You know, I know that you don't like anecdotes, but listen to women, listen to what happens to them, and then maybe say, hey, you know what? 1.00

00:55:16.000 I don't really want to live in a world where I have to worry about my girlfriend getting raped when she walks home or that she has to worry about it.

00:55:24.000 And for the record, I am happy when a man holds the door open for me and I will happily hold the door open for a man as well.

00:55:33.000 That's just respect to me.

00:55:35.000 Well, thank you. And I appreciate how respectful you've been.

00:55:39.000 I hope that you feel this has been a productive and back and forth discussion, even with disagreements.

00:55:44.000 Yes, I do. Okay.

00:55:46.000 And thank you. And I do as well.

00:55:47.000 And I very much appreciate it. Listen, people, if you're going to tweet her, Maria underscore Del Russo, be respectful.

00:55:53.000 Voice your disagreements as respectfully as possible.

00:55:55.000 I cannot apologize or take responsibility for people with Twitter eggs and four followers.

00:56:00.000 Sure, yeah. Ms. 0.90

00:56:01.000 Del Russo. And I don't expect you to take responsibility for your followers.

00:56:05.000 Just the fact that you're telling them be respectful is...

00:56:09.000 Well, we always do, and as a matter of fact, we did that with the Change My Mind segments, and usually the audience is very respectful.

00:56:15.000 So, Maria Del Rosso, thank you so much for taking the time.

00:56:17.000 I really appreciate it, and I hope to have you back, genuinely, on the program.

00:56:21.000 Hey, did you enjoy this video?

00:56:24.000 Here's the thing. This is the end of it, so we don't care because you already watched it.

00:56:27.000 But if you really didn't like it and you want to justify it, leave a comment below telling us why you didn't like the video.

00:56:32.000 And if you liked us, let us know.

00:56:34.000 And subscribe to the channel.

00:56:36.000 Because that lets the overlords at YouTube know that, you know what?

Louder with Crowder - March 01, 2018

DEBATE: Feminist Asks Crowder to Check Privilege (Maria Del Russo Uncut) | Louder With Crowder

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