Comedian D.L. Hughley joins Jemele to discuss his thoughts on Caitlyn Jenner and her transition from male to female, and why he doesn t think she should have a sex change. Jemele and Jemele are joined by Jemele's good friend and comedian Amy Poehler.
00:01:06.000I guess, ultimately, it makes for interesting conversations.
00:01:11.000It does, but I will say, you know, it seems like we're in an era where that's not really allowed, and you don't see a lot of people going on sort of, I guess, competing programs.
00:01:19.000Now, I do want to just sort of lay the stage here really quickly.
00:01:22.000What caught my eye, and I felt sympathetic because I saw you face the wrath of the Twitter social justice warriors.
00:01:30.000Well, you know what's funny about facing wrath?
00:01:32.000I grew up on 130th and a half a lot, so if you mean tweet, it means absolutely nothing to me.
00:01:38.000It's hilarious that people think Just because they have a keyboard and 140 characters, that can alter my opinion.
00:01:47.000I mean, I'm sure generally the public is altered by that, but I didn't necessarily feel...
00:01:53.000I guess if their attempt was to make me feel intimidated or to make me feel any level of backlash, I can't say that I didn't.
00:02:03.000Well, before we get into that, because I want to get into what exactly people have been doing with you or if they have been trying to intimidate you.
00:02:09.000So this all was spawned from some comments you made about Caitlyn Jenner.
00:02:28.000I mean, I've talked to them in the meantime.
00:02:30.000Asked me my opinion of Caitlyn Jenner, and I went in the ESPY. And I said that, you know, Arthur Az, you know, was a civil rights, a part of civil rights.
00:02:40.000Arthur Az played a segregated sport in a segregated state.
00:02:45.000And he got AIDS, and basically it was a space of AIDS. And before that time, AIDS was, you know, people thought it was a gay plague, and they thought it was God's wrath.
00:02:54.000And he gave it such a human face that it started to change opinion.
00:02:57.000And he really died in service of people.
00:03:53.000So I think that To me, when something like that happens, you know, I've always been able, I've always kind of given my opinion, and I think that it is a shame to me that whether I've agreed with people or not, like when Don Hyman said what he said, I threw the same kind of rap for defending his right to say it.
00:04:15.000To me, right is right, wrong is wrong, and if people can't, ultimately, you know, I'm going to exercise my right to say what I want, and I refuse to be Right.
00:04:26.000Well, on that note, I want to ask you something, because what I noticed, and I want to know if you noticed this, you know, right away the accusations came out.
00:04:38.000And do you see that as a way for people who might disagree with you on a point to just try and silence the dialogue before you can even make your point?
00:04:51.000I don't know what I would have to fear from a transgender person or anybody else.
00:04:57.000I remember when I defended John Ivers, they said that I hated black women, which is ridiculous.
00:05:01.000I've been married for more than 30 years.
00:05:03.000So I think that people, they choose the simplest narrative, and the narrative is if you have an opposition to somebody, you make a joke about somebody that you must hate it or fear it.
00:05:13.000And neither one of those are true in this particular case.
00:05:18.000And I'll tell you what, does it give you maybe pause?
00:05:21.000Because I will say this, you know, glad you're coming on the program, but you have thrown those insinuations toward black conservatives or conservatives in general that they're inherently prejudiced.
00:05:31.000I just think that I don't necessarily, black or white, the conservative viewpoint is in mind.
00:05:39.000And I think that what tends to happen, most conservatives, black conservatives, tend to be people that black people don't like in general.
00:05:47.000And, you know, so I mean, so it's just, to me, I'm going to tell you what it is I think.
00:05:53.000And I think that there is, I can't even think of anybody that by and large would be respected in both communities.
00:06:05.000But my question is, you know, as someone who has had a lot of, you know, black conservatives on this program, and obviously, listen, I lean to the right.
00:06:13.000I mean, I know you've been to Montreal.
00:06:14.000I think I actually watched your set at the Just for Laughs as a young boy.
00:06:17.000So I don't come from this sort of, you know, Robert Byrd Backwoods KKK American background.
00:06:24.000But you have made the, I mean, you know, you did say that Republicans sort of looked like Nazi Germany or you wouldn't see Black Lives Matter t-shirts at GOP convention.
00:06:31.000I get that you're a comedian, but you have leveled that criticism towards conservatives sometimes in a generality.
00:06:50.000I think that it's ultimately where some total of our lives experience is.
00:06:54.000When you hear black conservatives say, like what Ben Carson said, that Obamacare is worse than slavery, what do you think black people are going to think about that?
00:07:06.000What do you think I, as a black person, I don't want to think about that?
00:07:09.000Yeah, but what do you think all conservatives, including black or white, think when you say that Republicans don't care about black people?
00:07:57.000For people that have the right to express themselves, I don't think that's an inconsistent argument.
00:08:01.000What I will say in terms of the point I was making earlier is you will have a situation where people are angry that the government is overstepping its boundaries and they're worried about jack-booted thugs and oppressing people's rights.
00:08:13.000But when they see what's happening to black people all across the country, they're silent.
00:08:17.000And that, to me, is a level of inconsistency that, you know...
00:08:23.000And I'm just saying, you know, in the spirit of respectful disagreement, I've not seen that.
00:08:27.000I've never heard any Republicans or conservatives say that they believe that should be policy.
00:08:31.000I will say I've seen deafening silence from black liberals, even such as yourself, on, you know, the violence in Chicago or the kind of atmosphere that Barack Obama's created.
00:08:39.000Okay, but let's not complain about the issue.
00:08:40.000The violence in Chicago is horrible, and the violence in Chicago is dealt with it.
00:08:45.000A black person who kills a black person is going to jail.
00:08:49.000It's going to jail, and they should go to jail.
00:09:35.000I defended your right to free speech, right?
00:09:36.000And I think you saw that people were trying to silence you, and I hate that.
00:09:40.000But do you think that you have in the past, and I will say that I do, and then I'll give you the floor, have been guilty of doing that same thing of trying to silence conservatives, kind of like you're doing now, by insinuating racism?
00:09:53.000There's absolutely, there's absolutely, listen, let me be clear.
00:09:57.000Much like I said what I said about Bruce Jenner and was unwilling, I wasn't as concerned about what people, you coming into my defense is admirable.
00:10:08.000But my position would have been my position even alone.
00:12:41.000The issue has been conflated, for example, when you have cops who are now facing being offed in record numbers because you have an administration and pundits like you who irresponsibly create a more racially tense environment.
00:12:52.000I was raised in a post-racial North America.
00:12:55.000It's worse than ever because of people calling people Nazis.
00:14:29.000If we do that, can we both agree that maybe you need to apologize to someone like Darren Wilson for jumping to conclusions on the other side when he was assaulted?
00:15:24.000Do you think – and this is just a – because I really do like you and I think you're funny and I'm not just saying that because I know conservatives are going to get mad to hear this.
00:15:31.000We have a lot of independent libertarians who listen to the show.
00:15:34.000Do you think, though, that some of the things that you have said that have been, listen, let's be honest, and sometimes it's a joke, so I have more leeway for comedians, insinuating that conservatives or Republicans are racist, generally that can be designed to silence dialogue just like the people who said you can't have an opinion because you're a transphobe.
00:15:54.000I appreciate, honestly, that you're defensively, but really, honestly, if I, I would have, I say what I say and I understand I'm willing to take the consequences.
00:16:04.000And I certainly, most certainly do not believe that it is the equivalent of the other side.
00:16:08.000It is the equivalent of me telling a joke and giving an observation about Bruce Jenner or trans folk and them saying, oh, he's a bigot, oh, he's anti this.
00:16:19.000It's the same thing on the other side.
00:16:21.000I make jokes that, from my perspective, some people don't like them, and I understand it.
00:16:25.000If I felt bad about them, I'd certainly apologize.
00:16:29.000I don't feel bad about people's misunderstanding of what I said about Bruce Simmons.
00:16:33.000And the example that you've given me right now, I don't feel bad about those issues.
00:16:37.000So I can understand that, to me, you're basically kind of doing what you're accusing other people of doing, is trying to make me feel a certain way about a joke.
00:17:57.000Robert Byrd, who used the N-word in 2001 several times, if a plane went down with Obama, Biden, Clinton, Pelosi, Robert Byrd would have been your president.
00:18:06.000He practically had KKK Dental and a company f***ing car.
00:20:03.000We didn't have a secret meeting behind black people's back.
00:20:05.000People like me and Alfonso Rachel and Larry Elder, who we just had on, we didn't all have a meeting and say we hate black people, but I did just hear you level some criticism.
00:20:13.000Larry Elder is a whole different thing.
00:20:52.000Well, let me give you my analysis of what you said, and certainly that would be fair if that were the fair of the day, and oftentimes it isn't.
00:20:59.000If people were as fair as you and as open-minded as you, then we don't have these conversations, but we do.
00:21:04.000And we have them because some of the assertions that I've made, you watch...
00:21:12.000I could send you tapes of people on Fox News saying exactly these things.
00:21:16.000I was on Fox News for four and a half years.
00:22:33.000I said the exact words, DL. My exact words were, I've never heard anyone say it except for Geraldo Rivera, who's not that bright and is a liberal.
00:23:34.000I've heard guests that they were interviewing come on and say it.
00:23:37.000So let's not pretend I haven't heard it.
00:23:39.000No, but you've made the claim, and you've made the claim, for example, here's the thing.
00:23:43.000If you go to a college debate club, Mr.
00:23:45.000Hughley, if you say, I've heard plenty of Republicans say, all young black people are thugs, all young black people are wearing hoodies, you have to rationalize that statement.
00:25:51.000So you think that Lyndon Johnson, you think the New Deal, you think Detroit, they've marketed those things really effective to black people, you think the black community is better off?
00:26:01.000Anybody we're talking about right now would know anything about that besides the history book.
00:26:05.000I think every black person in Detroit would know exactly what's been marketed to them, and it's destroyed Detroit and the black community.
00:26:19.000To specifically say, getting back to what I said before, you mentioned a bunch of people who would not A, be welcome in a lot of black neighborhoods, or B, feel comfortable in it.
00:27:37.000And I do hope, I do say this genuinely, genuinely, beyond the sensationalism of radio, beyond us debating on air.
00:27:44.000The only thing that you've done that I find alarming, I have no problem with you having a point of view, is ascribing a motive to your opposition.
00:28:19.000If it is you want the conservative movement to take root places, you as well as I know that you have to change either the marketing, the message, or the product.
00:28:43.000And I think he could have done something, but he doesn't seem to be of that ilk now.
00:28:48.000He doesn't seem to have that opinion now.
00:28:49.000But when you tell me about Herman Cain, when you tell me about Larry Elder, when you tell me about – Okay, okay, but we have to go here in a second.
00:28:58.000Is it fair to say, I'm talking about you and I, would it be fair to say that in this conversation between D.L. Hughley and Steven Crowder, you were the only one to ascribe a motive to me by saying I was disingenuous?
00:29:10.000It is unfair to say that, it's fair to say this, because what I'm going to do is tell you from my perspective, you have put you Like, for instance, you brought up the picture of Nazi Germany.
00:29:25.000In terms of Xbox, I've given you an example of stuff.
00:29:28.000But I wouldn't say I ascribe a motive to you.
00:29:31.000I've ascribed a motive to people that seem to be of your opinion.
00:29:36.000Okay, but you didn't say I was being disingenuous.
00:29:40.000In that particular, I thought you were.
00:29:42.000I think that when you said to me, you said to me you never had heard that you worked at Fox and Ford News and you never heard it except Ford.
00:29:49.000Well, the exception is the very thing that I heard.
00:29:52.000So that to me seemed to be disingenuous if you were saying that it had never happened before.
00:29:57.000That made me feel like I was lying or obfuscating or telling you something that wasn't true.