Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders have finally faced off in the first Democratic primary debate, and it's a doosey one! Produced in the In-Video Studio by S.Crowder, G.J. Morgan Jr., and Jered, who is not gay.
00:05:21.000As we mentioned, a handful of members of our audience, which include both critics and defenders of the Affordable Care Act, will question you in addition to questions from Jake and myself.
00:05:31.000As moderators, we will guide the debate.
00:05:33.000And we will begin with two-minute opening statements on what should happen to health care in America.
00:06:13.000And that means when you get sick, you ain't going to be able to go to the doctor.
00:06:17.000And when you end up in the hospital, you'll be paying those bills for the rest of your life, or maybe you'll go bankrupt.
00:06:25.000What the repeal of the ACA means that if you are one of 10 million senior citizens who today is struggling with the outrageous cost of prescription drugs, your prescription drug costs are going to go on average about $2,000.
00:06:43.000What the repeal of the ACA means is that if you are suffering with cancer, with diabetes, With serious mental illness, you will be put into a position where you may be rejected from any insurance at all because you have a preexisting condition.
00:07:07.000And by the way, women are considered a preexisting condition.
00:07:11.000Conditioned by the insurance companies because they might have a baby.
00:07:16.000He's hitting all the high notes here, isn't he?
00:09:07.000I think healthcare works better when you're in charge of your family's healthcare decisions, when you can sit down with your doctor and decide the care that's best for your family without government setting rules, without government rationing, without wait periods.
00:09:23.000And that's the fundamental divide we're having.
00:09:26.000You know, six years ago when Obamacare was being adopted, it's possible that reasonable minds could have differed on whether this was a good idea.
00:09:34.000But six years into it, we've seen the results.
00:10:40.000We have a lot of questions for both of you from members of the audience, but before we get to them, I want to ask about a pressing matter on Capitol Hill, and I'll start with you, Senator Cruz.
00:10:48.000House Speaker Paul Ryan said today that the legislation to repeal and replace Obamacare would be done this year.
00:10:54.000On Sunday, President Trump said that a plan may not be rolled out until 2018.
00:11:00.000Not that it would, but that it may not be rolled out until 2018.
00:11:03.000Is anything less than a full and swift repeal and replacement of Obamacare a broken promise?
00:11:10.000Listen, I think everyone agrees there is an urgency to honor the promises we made.
00:11:16.000You know, since Obamacare was passed, we've had multiple elections, 2010, 2014, 2016.
00:11:24.000Where the number one issue in each of those elections was Obamacare.
00:11:27.000And, you know, what we're arguing here was argued in front of the American people.
00:11:30.000The Democrats said over and over again, if Obamacare is here, all of these people are going to vote.
00:11:58.000Nobody thinks we're done once Obamacare is repealed.
00:12:03.000Once Obamacare is repealed, we need common sense reform that increases competition, that empowers patients, that gives you more choices, that puts you in charge of your health care rather than empowering government bureaucrats to get in the way.
00:12:16.000And these have been common sense ideas, I would note, that for six years Republicans have been proposing.
00:12:21.000And for six years Democrats have been fighting, saying no changes at all to Obamacare, even as people were hurting And losing their coverage.
00:12:30.000This election is about honoring the promises we made to the people who...
00:13:11.000And here's another choice you can have.
00:13:13.000If you have diabetes and you are spending a whole lot on health insurance, the insurance companies will say, sorry, we're only going to spend X dollars because we've got to make money off you.
00:13:28.000That's the function of private insurance.
00:13:58.000Before we had the Affordable Care Act.
00:14:01.000You know, it is interesting to hear so much of the Democratic rhetoric that government controlling your health care is always justified by saying the insurance companies are terrible.
00:14:14.000Now, this is an example of what John Adams famously said.
00:14:52.000They couldn't deny for pre-existing conditions, but there were no caps on premiums or deductibles.
00:14:57.000So it really was a way for them to sort of weasel in and act like they were working on behalf of the little guy, as they've always claimed, and the little guy voted for Donald Trump in response, while providing a big kickback to insurance companies, who, by and large, favored Democrats that election cycle.
00:15:10.000And you know who's making out like gangbusters?
00:15:12.000The insurance companies and those in government whose solution is let's have even more government control.
00:16:26.000Well, actually, what I still will say, Bernie, is I would love for us to work together going after big pharma.
00:16:32.000And in particular, taking on the FDA. Right now, it takes $2 billion to approve a new drug.
00:16:39.000Now, I've introduced legislation to reform the FDA process so that new health care, so that we can be curing diseases and we can be helping people.
00:16:47.000But we should probably check in with Jean-Guy.
00:17:09.000Which is the greediest of many greedy corporate interests in Washington.
00:17:14.000And I'll tell you what, I'm going to introduce legislation to have Medicare negotiate prices with the pharmaceutical industry.
00:17:23.000I'm going to introduce again legislation.
00:17:26.000To allow Americans to buy less expensive medicine in Canada, the UK, and other countries.
00:17:32.000Let's take on the greed of pharma, substantially lower prescription drug costs.
00:17:37.000And Dan, let me make a response to this, because this is a good discussion.
00:17:39.000The whole point of having an extended discussion is to say, as you know, with drug reimportation, bringing in drugs from Canada and other countries, just a couple of weeks ago on the Senate floor, I voted with you.
00:17:54.000It was the right thing to do, but I'll tell you, a much bigger barrier than that is the fact that, you know, in the last 20 years, the FDA has approved only three child cancer drugs in 20 years.
00:18:10.000I introduced legislation that said if a drug is approved in another major country, if it's approved in Europe or Japan or our major respected partners, that the FDA has got 30 days to approve it here.
00:18:21.000We shouldn't be telling people with life-threatening diseases you can't do everything you can to save your lives.
00:18:49.000We do want to talk more about that later, but I want to get to some of the questions from our audience.
00:18:54.000One of the most popular parts of Obamacare is, as you mentioned earlier, requiring insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions.
00:19:02.000If Obamacare is repealed, 52 million Americans could lose that guaranteed coverage because of their medical histories.
00:19:10.000One of them is Neosha Ponder, who is fighting breast cancer and currently undergoing radiation treatment.
00:19:31.000I've lived a pretty healthy lifestyle.
00:19:32.000I fear that if I don't have Obamacare, if I'm not covered, then my pre-existing condition of breast cancer and remaining treatments will make it difficult for me to afford insurance.
00:19:48.000Senator Cruz, what can you do to protect people like me who are alive because of Obamacare?
00:19:55.000Well, Neil, thank you for asking that question.
00:19:57.000How long have you been diagnosed with breast cancer?
00:20:36.000And if you look at every proposal that's been submitted, every significant proposal that's been submitted to replace Obamacare, to fix the problems in the health care system after Obamacare has gotten rid of, all of them protect people in your situations.
00:20:51.000All of them prohibit insurance companies from canceling someone because they got sick.
00:20:55.000They prohibit insurance companies from jacking up the insurance rate because they got sick or injured.
00:21:00.000This is uninteresting with Loeys shit.
00:23:03.000And they should keep government from getting between you and your doctor.
00:23:06.000I talked about all sorts of common sense ideas to do just that.
00:23:11.000And as I said, a proposal that is consistent in virtually every one of the pieces of Republican legislation that's been filed is a prohibition on insurance companies canceling people because they got sick.
00:23:22.000And, you know, Bernie, it's easy to say to people, gosh, you're going to lose your coverage.
00:23:55.000You will not get that health insurance.
00:23:58.000So I think when people like Ted talk about repealing Obamacare, repealing government mandates, this is a government mandate, and it is a damn good mandate and a humane mandate.
00:24:12.000And, Senator Cruz, if you would answer now...
00:24:14.000I want you to argue the constitutionality of a mandate.
00:24:18.000You're saying that she will continue to have health care, she and others, who have pre-existing conditions, and you're going to make sure that that is a mandate and a requirement in whatever legislation we support?
00:24:30.000What I've said is virtually all of the Republican legislation that has been filed that the Democrats have opposed.
00:24:35.000It maintains a continuity of coverage so that insurance companies can't cancel policies.
00:24:40.000And, you know, the question I asked a minute ago that Bernie chose not to answer is, what do the Democrats say to the six million people who had their insurance policies canceled, who got a notification in the mail that you don't get to see your doctors anymore, and not just the people who were canceled?
00:24:55.000There are people all over this country who can't afford health insurance because of Obamacare, who the deductibles are so high, the premiums are so high, they say, you know what, my family, we can't make it on this.
00:25:58.000But he also said, if you have an illness, it has to be kept.
00:26:02.000But really, we are moving into an era where millions of people who develop terrible illnesses will not be able to get insurance, and God only knows how many of them will die.
00:26:13.000So, Senator Sanders, you just heard Senator Cruz bring up an issue that a lot of Americans...
00:26:16.000By the way, I also think Donald Trump said he was going to keep the pre-existing clause, which is silly and it doesn't work, but he did say that, so it's kind of a moot point.
00:26:22.000...so that their insurance is unaffordable.
00:26:24.000One of them is in our audience right now.
00:27:49.000The real question, which is never talked about, or very rarely talked about, is why we end up spending, as a nation, Twice as much per capita on healthcare as do the people of any other country.
00:28:39.000You know, Melissa, I'm sorry for the challenges you're facing.
00:28:43.000There are many people in America struggling with exactly what you are in the wreckage of Obamacare, with skyrocketing premiums, with deductibles that are unaffordable, and with really limited care.
00:28:53.000And I will commend Bernie for his candor.
00:28:55.000I mean, his view all along was that we need government-run and government-controlled health care for everyone.
00:29:01.000And indeed, as he said here tonight, he thinks other countries do it a lot better than America.
00:29:06.000He often points to Canada, the United Kingdom.
00:29:22.000The United States, population controlled, delivers three times as many mammograms as Europe.
00:29:29.000Two and a half times the number of MRI scans and 31% more C-sections.
00:29:34.000We provide more health care, not only that.
00:29:36.000Zero through Planned Parenthood, by the way.
00:29:37.000In the United Kingdom, for example, wait times.
00:29:39.000In 2013, you waited 72 days for cataract surgery.
00:29:42.000You waited 89 days for hip replacement, 95 days for knee replacement.
00:29:48.000There are 3.7 million people in the United Kingdom right now on a waiting list.
00:29:53.000Whenever you put government in charge of health care, what it means is they ration, they decide, you get care and you don't.
00:30:02.000I don't think the government has any business telling you you're not entitled to receive health care.
00:30:08.000He may seem stiff, he may seem staccato, but he just brought a litany of facts and statistics, and then Bernie will say, I don't think they have the right to deny you.
00:31:39.000To answer your question, Jake, what I have long supported within the context of Obamacare as we move toward a Medicare for All single-pay program is a public option.
00:31:52.000There should be a Medicare-type public option available in all exchanges in all states in this country.
00:32:00.000And I think that would substantially lower the cost Of health care in this country and provide real competition to the private sector.
00:32:08.000See, Ted Cruz said this debt, this debt, this debt, these premiums, and he's saying, I believe if we do this, that would maybe.
00:32:13.000He's dealing with phantom fears and phantom theories.
00:32:16.000That is socialism versus free enterprise.
00:33:23.000He's softening himself up a little bit to the audience.
00:33:25.000I'm reminded of a comment Ronald Reagan used to say about East Berlin, about the Berlin Wall.
00:33:30.000He said, the funny thing the leftists never seem to notice, the machine guns all point one direction.
00:33:37.000Everyone was fleeing communism and coming to freedom.
00:33:40.000If you look at socialized medicine, people leave their tens and hundreds of thousands every year, leave socialized medicine countries because they want to get a hip replacement, a knee replacement.
00:33:50.000You know, the governor of one of the Canadian provinces came to America to get heart surgery, and he was a governor in Canada.
00:33:57.000And by the way, in your home state of Vermont, your hospitals advertise with Canadian flags.
00:34:02.000Come to American hospitals, you'll get better health care.
00:34:05.000I don't want to mess up our health care.
00:34:08.000I want patients, all of us, to be in charge of our health care, not government deciding what health care is.
00:34:31.000I don't think we need to see those countries junking their healthcare systems, in which, by the way, poll after poll shows, not that they don't have problems.
00:34:41.000Every healthcare system in the world has problems.
00:34:43.000But I am not seeing those countries junking their universal healthcare system, which provide healthcare to all of their people at one-half times.
00:35:07.000The people may not be complaining because they're getting free things, but the governments are being forced to move toward a more privatized plan, as Canada did.
00:35:14.000In the Supreme Court's case, we've talked about it.
00:35:17.000They're moving our way while Bernie wants us to move their way.
00:38:06.000We just heard that story a moment ago.
00:38:09.000And some of those people die, and others end up in the hospital at outrageous costs for illnesses that could have been treated initially at far less cost.
00:38:20.000So please don't tell me about rationing.
00:38:23.000This country has more rationing than any other industrialized country.
00:39:21.000But again, you're making emotional arguments to people who respond very well to emotional arguments.
00:39:26.000I think the people who like Bernie are still going to like Bernie because they don't care about the facts or statistics.
00:39:30.000I mean, they supported his economic plan.
00:39:33.000They have a very casual relationship with stats and statistics, okay?
00:39:37.000They don't really want good healthcare.
00:39:39.000They just want an insurance plan that says, I can go and live my life, eat what I want, never exercise, make really bad decisions, and then one day, poof, I'm in bad shape and I need your help.
00:39:48.000How about the people that do take care of themselves and spend time, effort, and money getting checkups and doing all kinds of stuff?
00:39:53.000By the way, tons of that stuff is free.
00:40:29.000People need to realize that the people who do take care of themselves, the people who you actually want insurance companies betting on, they're the ones more likely to have to pay more and dropping out.
00:40:38.000You know, the person who's most likely to drop out of insurance right now...
00:40:41.000A, it's really hard now because the government's going to penalize you at gunpoint.
00:40:44.000But the person most likely to drop out is that college student who's an athlete, who's super fit, who's super healthy, who did all these things to try and bring their insurance premiums down and instead saw them go up.
00:40:54.000And that's the exact kind of person you need in the healthcare insurance risk pool to mitigate it for the person with the smear of pap.
00:44:09.000Let me give you an answer you will not be happy with.
00:44:14.000And that is, I think, that for businesses that employ 50 people or more, given the nature of our dysfunctional health care system right now, where most people do get their health insurance through the places that they work.
00:44:46.000You don't even ask her about her profit margins.
00:44:48.000You don't even ask her how many people she employs, how many of them are part-time, how many of them have been forced onto working part-time because of Obamacare, because of the current laws that force small businesses.
00:45:17.000Everyone watching this show right now knows somebody who probably has a business on that scale of size when Bernie Sanders says, forevermore...
00:45:26.000That he's only going after the top 1% right here.
00:45:43.000Thomas said it's the same thing Democrats have said, which is that you, the small business, you're apparently a bad actor because you're not allowed to manufacture money.
00:46:00.00029ers are the millions of people across this country that have been forced into part-time work, that used to have full-time employment, and are now working 29 hours a week because Obamacare kicks in at 30 hours a week.
00:46:12.000And a lot of them are people, they're single moms, they're teenagers, they're immigrants, they're people who are struggling, and then 49ers.
00:46:19.000There are millions of small businesses in the exact situation you're in.
00:46:22.000You know, a couple of months ago, I was out in West Texas, was visiting a dairy farmer, driving around the dairy farm.
00:46:27.000Now listen to this, and you tell me who's populous.
00:46:29.000You tell me he's looking out for the elite.
00:46:31.000Bernie Sanders telling a small business owner that you have to pay for everybody else's health insurance period because I have a mandate and I have a pen sitting there from Washington, D.C. Or Ted Cruz right now who's talking about giving businesses and employees the freedom of choice.
00:46:44.000Because Obamacare kicks in at 50 and he said, I could hire 20 or 30 more employees right now.
00:46:51.000But Obamacare would bankrupt my business, and that's millions of small businesses.
00:46:55.000So we're here at GW. Let me speak for a minute to all the young people.
00:46:58.000That was a personal story, by the way.
00:46:59.000When you come out of college with way too much student loans, my guess is you'd like to get a job.
00:47:05.000And millions of small businesses being told by the Democrats, tough luck, we don't care if it drives you out of business, that's taken away opportunity, and it's hurting, in particular, the most vulnerable.
00:47:17.000It's one of the most damaging things about Obamacare.
00:47:45.000Because the premiums have gone up so much this year, and because I don't qualify for any kind of government subsidies, I don't have, for the first time in my life, insurance.
00:49:16.000Well, I certainly hope it does, and I hope Medicare is still there, despite the efforts of Senator Cruz and others, so that when you at least reach 65, you will be able to get a decent health insurance program.
00:49:28.000Well, Bernie, since apparently I'm now trying to kill the elderly...
00:49:35.000When you heard that her premiums had skyrocketed, that she can't afford health insurance...
00:49:42.000You kind of said, well, premiums always go up.
00:49:44.000I mean, let me ask you, why did President Obama look in the eyes of the American people and promise LaRonda that her health insurance premiums would go down $2,500 a year?
00:49:55.000Was he telling the truth when he said that, and were you and the other Democrats telling the truth when you echoed his promise to the American people?
00:50:02.000Ted, for a start, as everybody knows, healthcare is pretty complicated.
00:50:07.000I think President Obama is an honest person, and I think based on his assessment, that's what he believed.
00:50:25.000And that means that we have to appreciate that we are spending hundreds of billions of dollars every single year, not on healthcare, but on administration and bureaucracy.
00:51:48.000That would take 86,200 employees working full-time, 2,000 hours a year.
00:51:54.000To complete one year of new paperwork under Obamacare, that's roughly the entire population of Miami Beach, Florida, doing nothing but filling out Obamacare forms.
00:52:05.000If you want your doctor to get back to caring for you, if you want to drive down costs, get government out of the business of dictating and controlling health care.
00:52:23.000Every American who has filed a claim has the experience of fighting with insurance companies to make sure that they get what they are entitled to.
00:52:34.000Do you think Bernie in his youth was raped by an insurance salesman?
00:53:04.000And then if we agree, and I think most Americans do, that it is a right, how do you provide health care to all people with high quality in a cost-effective way?
00:53:13.000I happen to believe that Medicare is a popular program.
00:55:15.000You know what the Declaration of Independence said?
00:55:17.000We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator, With certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
00:55:32.000And if you believe health care is a right, why on earth did you help write Obamacare that caused 6 million people to have their health insurance canceled, that had them lose their doctors, and had people like LaRonda, who can't get health insurance, can't afford premiums, you're denying her what you say is her right.
00:58:17.000And I think that's an important point, and I hope other people catch that from tonight.
00:58:21.000I think he tries to also paint us into a bit of a corner.
00:58:24.000Obviously, you and I want people to have good health care, right?
00:58:27.000We're making the argument that it's not possible to give people free health care, so we have to do something else, right?
00:58:33.000We're trying to come up with a system that actually will work, will provide innovation, will keep people healthy, and is sustainable, and will not bankrupt our country, see the rest of the world.
00:58:42.000And then we get vilified for saying, we don't want people to be healthy.
00:58:45.000We want poor people to be dying on the streets from very curable, preventable diseases.
01:02:18.000And just say, alright, they're probably sick enough now.
01:02:21.000Because they refuse to expand Medicaid to Maryland.
01:02:25.000And within two weeks, I started receiving treatments through Medicaid.
01:02:29.000And am now well enough to work as a substitute teacher.
01:02:33.000Senator Cruz, can you promise me that you and the Republican leaders in Congress will actually have a replacement plan in place for people like me, who depend on their Medicaid?
01:02:50.000Well, Carol, thank you for sharing your story, and congratulations on dealing with MS. It's a terrible disease, and congratulations on your struggles dealing with it.
01:03:00.000You know, if you look at Medicaid, more than half of the people who've been covered under Obamacare have been under Medicaid.
01:03:07.000And the problem is Medicaid is a profoundly troubled program.
01:03:11.000And so it may be working well with you.
01:03:14.000But I'll tell you nationally, the health outcomes under Medicaid are really poor.
01:03:19.000Nationally, 54% of doctors won't take new Medicaid patients.
01:03:24.000Nationally, Dental care appointments for moms are denied at a 63% rate on Medicaid.
01:03:34.000The denial rate for private insurance is 4%.
01:03:37.000And Medicaid patients are almost twice as likely to die from medical treatment as those with private health insurance.
01:03:46.000The solution for people who are hurting, I believe we should have a system that allows as many people as possible To be on the private health insurance of your choice, rather than Medicaid, because the Medicaid outcomes are not working and people are suffering.
01:05:22.000They should not be taking place in the United States.
01:05:25.000Now, are there problems with Medicaid?
01:05:28.000Apparently, Kyle from Secular Talk is having a meltdown right now.
01:05:30.000To those Republican governors around the country who told poor people That they would not be able to, for the first time in their lives, in many instances, get access to health care.
01:06:13.000This country finally is going to have to do, in my view, what every other major country does.
01:06:19.000And yes, I believe, Ted, health care is a human right.
01:06:22.000Major countries like Iceland with a population of 400,000.
01:06:24.000I believe that this country has got to join every other major country and say, you can stay home and get quality care because you're an American.
01:06:32.000You can run your small business well and get care because you are an American.
01:07:12.000Let's look at, for example, the United Kingdom.
01:07:16.000The United Kingdom 2001 report noted that 39% of women over 80 in the United Kingdom receive surgery for breast cancer compared to 90% of the women under 50.
01:07:31.000And that men and women under the age of 55 were two and a half times more likely than those over 75 to receive cancer treatment.
01:07:39.000You see Bernie's wheels turning like, oh, should have brought back.
01:08:54.000Is we need tens of thousands more doctors in this country.
01:08:58.000But we're going to pay you a lot less.
01:09:00.000We have a major crisis in primary care.
01:09:01.000There are areas in urban America and in rural America where people literally can't find a doctor to serve their needs.
01:09:09.000And one of the reasons, a number of reasons for that, one of them is you go to medical school, you can come out hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
01:09:19.000And then you're going to become a plastic surgeon.
01:09:20.000And now it's the Boodle and nothing is safe, Charles.
01:09:24.000It tells me that we've got to expand the program called the National Health Service Corps so that our young people can get their debts repaid if they commit to serving in underserved areas.
01:09:37.000Let's get doctors out into the areas where we need them.
01:09:48.000The question was, Senator Cruz, can you promise me that you and the Republican leaders in Congress will actually have a replacement plan in place for people like me who depend on their Medicaid?
01:09:57.000She got Medicaid through the Obamacare expansion of Medicaid.
01:10:01.000We've all heard you criticize Medicaid.
01:10:05.000Well, what I said, Jake, is that Medicaid isn't working for millions of people, and Obamacare made Medicaid worse by expanding the wait list, by jamming more people on it.
01:11:36.000We've seen the number of doctors increasing dramatically.
01:11:39.000We've seen medical malpractice premiums dropping.
01:11:41.000I personally prefer no tort reform where ambulance chases like John Edwards can create sex tapes with pregnant women while the wife has cancer.
01:11:48.000people from going to medical school and training to be done busy performing pap smears smears of pap put the ST on the end it's important bagel and a pap smear it is the state of Texas And by the way, may I say proudly that Vermont is number two.
01:12:11.000In terms of the percentage of people who are insured.
01:12:15.000We have relatively few who are uninsured.
01:12:19.000It's like 400 people and they're all white and rich.
01:12:23.000It is Massachusetts with Romney Care, which was the prototype for the Affordable Care Act.
01:12:32.000Well, you know, the nice thing, Bernie, again, people vote with their feet.
01:12:36.000And for north of a decade now, roughly 1,000 people a day have been moving to Texas because we have an environment that allows people to get jobs.
01:12:49.000doesn't have a ton of diversity nearly the populations Texas has populations that are just starting when my dad went to Texas in 1957 I know a black guy whose street name is Rutabaga - You've never met Rutabaga!
01:13:09.000But he came to go to the University of Texas.
01:13:39.000You always create a certain amount of new jobs in the private sector.
01:13:42.000It's the percentage of new jobs created in the private sector versus the public sector, which there was an unbelievable discrepancy with Obama and nearly all previous presidents, where nearly all the new jobs created were.
01:14:15.000Senator Cruz, what policies do you have in place to protect pregnant women from losing their health coverage, either due to being considered having a pre-existing condition or from being charged higher insurance premiums than men?
01:14:29.000Well, congratulations on your new baby.
01:15:55.000And what's happened under Obamacare is that millions of people can't afford it.
01:15:58.000We should be concerned about people being able to afford health insurance, and that means giving them the choice in 50 states to choose a policy.
01:16:07.000In your instance, you would choose a policy that had maternity coverage, but someone else who right now can't afford it might choose a different policy.
01:16:14.000And when government mandates it, those choices go away.
01:17:13.000Because we have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the industrialized world.
01:17:18.000And by prenatal care, I mean murdering the bastard.
01:17:19.000It says to young people who today are on their parents' program, you're out, you're on your own after you leave college.
01:17:26.000He says that if you come down with a terrible illness and you're ending up spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, your insurance company can now tell you that there is a limit to what they will pay.
01:17:40.000And he is telling 20 million people who gained health insurance under Obamacare, sorry, you're out on the streets.
01:17:49.000Bottom line is, once again, The discussion, if you really think about the kinds of discussion that we're having, it is an absurd discussion for the wealthiest nation in the history of the world.
01:18:01.000Senator Sanders, let me follow up on that, if I may.
01:18:04.000I want to respond to that real briefly, if I can.
01:18:06.000You know, it's interesting sometimes the rhetoric that our friends on the left like to say that anyone who doesn't support government control of our health care somehow doesn't like and fit in whatever population you're talking about.
01:18:59.000He can't appeal to the Bernie voter base because they think they should get free health care until they're 26.
01:19:03.000...affordable plan that was available for a 30-year-old Texan For a 30-year-old Texan woman was $470 a year.
01:19:13.000Today, under Obamacare, the cheapest plan that's available for a healthy 30-year-old woman in Fort Worth is $3,236.
01:19:22.000It's gone from $470 to $3,000 over $3,200.
01:19:27.000With a much higher deductible, by the way.
01:19:31.000Is it jacked up the rates on all the young people?
01:19:33.000Why do you think there's an individual mandate?
01:19:35.000It's to force young people to pay really high rates to subsidize the rest of the system.
01:19:41.000And if you don't pay it, the IRS fines you.
01:19:44.000And you know, over six million people are fined each year by the IRS under Obamacare.
01:19:49.000Senator, we're going to get to the question of fines and so forth in a minute, but I want to circle back to women's health and ask you, Senator Sanders, why should a 60-year-old male or women who are beyond childbearing years be required to have health insurance plans that have maternity care?
01:20:09.000But I do think that's what we might want to look at.
01:20:13.000But I do believe that in the United States of America, where we talk a lot about our love for children, that pregnancy is not and should not be considered a pre-existing condition.
01:20:29.000That every woman in this country who gets pregnant should be 100% assured that she is going to get the highest quality care she needs to deliver a healthy baby.
01:20:40.000Senator Cruz, I want to stay on the issue of women's health.
01:21:23.000I'm willing to bet most of us, if that was the mandate, and it'd be cool, you could say leather seats, you could go, I don't know, 200 miles an hour.
01:21:30.000What it would mean for most people is you couldn't afford a car.
01:23:04.000Ted, in other ways, goes even further.
01:23:07.000He wants to repeal the estate tax which applies to the top two-tenths of 1%.
01:23:15.000The very wealthiest people in this country and give them, collectively, hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks.
01:23:22.000Ted, we are the wealthiest country in the world.
01:23:25.000And it's not a question of everybody driving a fancy car, but it is a question of making sure that every man, woman, and child in this country has health care as a right.
01:24:04.000I said, listen, Bernie talks about how Washington is corrupt, how both parties are corrupt, how both parties are in bed with big business and big money, and it is a corrupt system benefiting the special interest.
01:24:20.000And what I tell folks is where I disagree is in his solution.
01:24:23.000If the problem is government is corrupt, why on earth would you want more power in Washington?
01:24:29.000I want to take power out of Washington and empower the people.
01:24:32.000When it comes to taxes, what I want to see is a simple flat tax of 10% for everyone and abolish the IRS. That ends the power of the lobbyists.
01:24:44.000That's a solution that empowers the people.
01:24:49.000And in the midst of massive, unprecedented income and wealth inequality, Ted's plan, according to the Wall Street Journal, would give incredible tax breaks to the top.
01:25:01.000Okay, we'll do another town hall debate on tax reform.
01:25:07.000We're going to take a very quick break.
01:25:09.000And when we come back, a subject where there might be some agreement, the debate continues with Senators Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders in a moment.
01:26:08.000Or is he just not remembering where he's at?
01:26:10.000I don't think he's used to talking to somebody who has data and facts.
01:26:14.000I think he's used to talking to a crowd of people that hear free stuff and that hear that they can get everything that they want without having to face the realities of life and deal with struggle, by the way.
01:26:25.000Well, I mean, I'm sure he's been on the Senate floor and stuff, but this is probably the first time you think about it...
01:26:31.000You know, through all the primaries, it's him and Hillary.
01:26:35.000So he was never a force to make his case to somebody who had even a slightly different opinion, let alone a Ted Cruz who has, you know, he's excellent on the floor.
01:29:28.000Unfortunately for us and families like ours, our employer providing insurance does not cover the most vital of my daughter's life-saving prescriptions.
01:29:37.000This luckily hasn't been an unbearable financial burden for my family because of Obamacare and particularly the Medicaid expansion.
01:29:46.000Senator Cruz, regardless of what happened to the healthcare firm, how do you plan to address rising cost prescription drugs?
01:29:54.000Additionally, how would you like to address a healthcare system where insurance companies can choose to not cover drugs that people like my daughter need to live?
01:30:04.000Well, thank you for the question and thank you for the care you give to your three-year-old daughter.
01:30:10.000And the question you ask is one of the great challenges facing this country is we've seen the cost of drugs increasing dramatically.
01:30:17.000One area Bernie and I talked about we agree on is allowing the importation of drugs into this country from other countries where they're cheaper.
01:30:24.000There's no reason why we should be subsidizing other countries across the globe.
01:30:28.000But another fundamental area is FDA reform, where the costs of getting a new drug approved are prohibitedly expensive.
01:30:36.000I don't know if you've ever seen or folks have ever seen the movie Dallas Buyers Club.
01:30:39.000It's a wonderful movie with Matthew McConaughey about a gentleman, a gentleman in Texas.
01:31:08.000It's so valuable that if we lift the barriers to let people try, give you a right to try, if it's your life, you have a right to choose, you have a right to choose.
01:33:08.000Gosh, we really thought it would be over earlier.
01:33:11.000And there's nothing that anybody can do about it.
01:33:12.000This beer drinking thing was a bad idea.
01:33:15.000We have to tell the pharmaceutical industry, which in 2015 made $50 billion in profit for the five major companies, Where the top 10 executives made over $300 million in compensation.
01:35:26.000She's a little girl who has worked extremely hard to overcome her fears of eating, and now her joy of just being a normal little girl will be taken away.
01:35:36.000We shouldn't have the government putting barriers to people getting the drugs they need.
01:36:08.000And we can win it if we get Republican support.
01:36:11.000Will you stand with me in saying that Medicare, which spends a huge amount of money for prescription drugs, should be able to negotiate prices?
01:36:19.000Listen, of course Medicare should negotiate, but you and I have a different view on how you control greed.
01:36:25.000Hold on, let me finish what I'm saying.
01:36:29.000Your view, you said before that, gosh, these executives make way too much money.
01:36:33.000I don't think the government should be in the business of deciding what you get paid and you get paid and you get paid.
01:36:39.000And there are socialist countries on Earth.
01:36:41.000There are socialist countries that you encourage us to be like.
01:36:44.000But those countries are not doing nearly as well as America.
01:36:49.000You know, the per capita income in America is over five times the average per capita income in this world.
01:36:55.000It's 50% more than the per capita income in Europe.
01:36:58.000This is a land of opportunity because there's social mobility.
01:37:02.000In socialist countries, if you're born poor, you usually stay poor.
01:37:07.000He's been on the ropes this entire time.
01:37:15.000Bernie's just in there at this point just to be there.
01:37:17.000At the end of it, he's going to be like Robert De Niro on Raging Bull.
01:37:44.000To America and to the Affordable Care Act.
01:37:48.000Throughout your campaign, you said the taxes should go up on the rich, not the middle class, and yet millions of Americans who chose not to get health care are forced to pay a tax penalty.
01:38:01.000So families of four are paying up to $2,000 per year for failing to purchase coverage.
01:38:07.000Many say that they can't afford the premium, so it's just cheaper for them to pay the penalty than get health care.
01:38:13.000So is it fair to put this tax burden on families?
01:39:09.000Well, Dana, let me point out that Bernie acknowledged that 6.5 million Americans are paying Obamacare tax fines because they can't afford insurance.
01:39:19.000So they can't afford health insurance.
01:39:21.000And then the IRS comes in and fines them.
01:39:23.000And he says, gosh, I don't agree with that.
01:39:25.000And yet throughout the Democratic debate, Bernie says he helped write Obamacare that imposes these fines on people.
01:39:31.000I think it's wrong to be fining people.
01:39:33.000But let me make a broader point on that.
01:39:43.000The simplest principle in economics is tonstoffel.
01:39:45.000There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
01:39:48.000The liberal-leaning Urban Institute scored Bernie's health plan, concluded it would cost $2.5 trillion in the first year and $32 trillion over 10 years.
01:40:28.000Well, how about if we took every person that makes over a million dollars a year and confiscated 100% of their income, took every penny that they make.
01:45:22.000What do we expect to see in closing statements?
01:45:24.000I expect Ted Cruz to close the statement that he agrees with Bernie on the idea that health care needs to be fixed, but that if you look at the facts and statistics, or to some degree thereof, you will see that government has not solved the problem and has made it worse, particularly under Obama.
01:45:39.000I expect Bernie Sanders to say, we need more equality, and the rich are not paying their fair share, and it's time to get along with all the other countries in the world and mimic their healthcare plans.
01:45:51.000Are those his notes, by the way, or is that the Denny's takeout menu?
01:46:09.000I think, yeah, that's definitely what's going to happen.
01:46:12.000He doesn't have any kind of argument, and so he's just going to connect emotionally.
01:46:16.000Ted Cruz, if he's smart, he's going to keep facts in there, but he's also going to connect a little bit emotionally at the end and make sure he makes the point.
01:46:22.000We want health care, not health insurance.
01:46:25.000We're talking about the outside observer.
01:46:26.000A little smarmy sometimes, like he's too smart for you, but sometimes he comes off really well, and I think he's done that tonight.
01:46:33.000So I think he's done a great job, and I think if he connects, we'll be fine.
01:46:59.000Well, let me thank Ted for being here.
01:47:01.000Let me thank CNN for sponsoring this debate, which I thought has been a very interesting discussion.
01:47:09.000As I see it, the great political problem that we face right now is that we have a Congress that is more interested in representing their campaign contributors and the very wealthy than the needs of ordinary Americans.
01:47:24.000Ted ran a very vigorous campaign for president.
01:47:35.000And as a result of Citizens United, we're now looking at the Koch brothers, the second wealthiest family in America, and other billionaires literally buying elections.
01:47:49.000The Koch brothers were against Donald Trump, by the way.
01:47:52.000So they're not buying elections very well.
01:47:55.000And the pharmaceutical industry and the medical equipment suppliers than they do about the needs of the American people.
01:48:03.000Who provides the needs of the American people, dumbass?
01:48:06.000If you listen closely to the very fine questions that people here ask tonight, and you take a step backward, you say, whoa, what kind of craziness is this?
01:48:15.000We are the wealthiest country in the history of the world.
01:48:19.000And yet we have tens and tens and tens of millions of people struggling with prescription drugs, struggling with basic health care.
01:50:29.000When the President of the United States promises your premiums will drop $2,500 and instead the average premium rises $5,000 and deductibles go up $5,000, people are hurting because of Obamacare.
01:51:12.000I believe we're going to honor the promises we made to the American people, and we're going to repeal what Bill Clinton called Obamacare the craziest law in the world.
01:51:21.000Instead, we're going to give you choice, let you buy insurance across state lines, expand health savings account, make insurance portable.
01:51:30.000Block Grant, Medicaid to the state so you can have experimentation, health savings accounts, so we can meet your needs.
01:51:37.000Put you in charge of your health care with your doctor, not government.
01:51:43.000That's what this election was about, and now it is incumbent on all of us, Republicans and Democrats, to deliver on the promises made to the American people.
01:51:52.000Our thanks to Senators Cruz and Senator Sanders for joining us here tonight.
01:51:57.000And we also want to thank our audience here, our host at my alma mater.
01:52:02.000We're looking up whispering in my ear.
01:52:04.000By the way, we want to thank our audience who we pulled from the intensive care ward at the Cleveland Clinic.
01:53:27.000The pussy hat economics and the women's march and the Black Lives Matter and the banning people on college campus, if you look at it, they create an environment where they can only hear from like-minded people.
01:53:37.000They're not used to getting in the other team's title.
01:53:40.000They're not used to actually getting out on the field and playing a single down.
01:54:00.000And it's funny that you say that they want to surround themselves with the same ideas, and they actually react violently to people who oppose those ideas.
01:54:08.000There's a religion that kind of does that, too, and I can't remember if it's...
01:54:38.000Because the Bernie supporters on campus and the rest have reached so far that just anyone with any common sense left is going, alright, they're calling everyone Nazis, they're burning stuff down, they're punching people in Berkeley.