Louder with Crowder - Ex-Planned Parenthood Director Reveals All | Louder With Crowder

00:00:00.000 My director told us that our goal was to create every phone call and every client visit to turn that into a revenue-generating visit.

00:00:11.000 Well, if a woman comes in and she's pregnant, the only way we can do that is by selling her an abortion because we don't do prenatal care. 1.00

00:00:21.000 Planned Parenthood does not provide prenatal care at any of their clinics across the country.

00:00:26.000 They don't do You know, adoption services.

00:00:29.000 We don't make money off of that.

00:00:30.000 So the only way we could make money was to sell women an abortion. 0.99

00:00:34.000 And we were given the directive to sell abortion.

00:00:39.000 Glad to have this next guest with us.

00:00:41.000 Actually, it was a recommendation by my wife who read this lady's book, Unplanned.

00:00:46.000 You can find her at abbyjohnson.org.

00:00:49.000 Not.com,.org.

00:00:49.000 Get it right.

00:00:50.000 Abby Johnson, thank you for being on the show.

00:00:54.000 I'm very glad to have you on the show.

00:00:56.000 And like I said, okay, so full disclosure, I never lie to people and be like, I read your book.

00:01:00.000 I've read excerpts, but my wife was enthralled.

00:01:04.000 And she was the one who said, you have to have her on.

00:01:07.000 So, you know, we've had some pro-life people on the show before.

00:01:12.000 And my wife knows all of them.

00:01:14.000 She reads almost anything she can get her hands on.

00:01:16.000 But there was something here that really touched her.

00:01:18.000 Have you noticed a reaction from many people who've read your book that sort of differentiates it, I guess, from a lot of the other sort of pro-life sites or books out there?

00:01:27.000 Yeah, I think one of the things is that because I used to be a pro-choice person and then writing a book kind of about being that person and being in the pro-choice movement, My purpose was not to vilify them, but just to help people have an understanding of where they're coming from.

00:01:49.000 Not saying that it's right.

00:01:51.000 Abortion is absolutely wrong, but that we're not at war with these people that are working in the clinics or these people who are pro-choice.

00:02:01.000 We're at war with the ideology.

00:02:03.000 but not the people themselves.

00:02:04.000 And so I think that was something that was new to the pro-life movement, honestly, because they had for so long wanted to make enemies of the people who do support abortion.

00:02:17.000 Right.

00:02:17.000 I think you're right.

00:02:18.000 And I think, you know, we've talked about this.

00:02:20.000 I think there's a time for that.

00:02:22.000 I think there's a time to throw caution to the wind and offend people and it's okay because you're offending the right people.

00:02:27.000 And I think there are people who are not beyond reaching and you need to understand the difference.

00:02:31.000 And that's really sort of the skill, I guess, of expressing political ideology is knowing how to walk that line in a way that's appropriate for your audience.

00:02:38.000 So you worked at, now was it, it was Planned Parenthood, right?

00:02:41.000 It wasn't just any abortion clinic.

00:02:43.000 That's right.

00:02:43.000 Right.

00:02:43.000 It was Planned Parenthood clinic.

00:02:45.000 I was the director there.

00:02:48.000 We were an abortion facility.

00:02:50.000 I was there for eight years.

00:02:51.000 Now you say that you were an abortion facility.

00:02:53.000 Does that mean that that was your designated purpose at this Planned Parenthood facility?

00:02:57.000 Because we're told that, you know, it's a very small percentage of what Planned Parenthood actually does.

00:03:02.000 Yeah.

00:03:03.000 You don't agree, I can tell.

00:03:07.000 You know, it was...

00:03:08.000 We were there to...

00:03:13.000 It's kind of a tricky question because...

00:03:15.000 We were there as a family planning clinic who provided abortions. 1.00

00:03:21.000 But the whole premise behind being a family planning clinic is to get women on a contraceptive method that will eventually fail them.

00:03:30.000 We know that 54% of women having abortions were using contraception at the time they got pregnant.

00:03:36.000 So the whole purpose is get them on a contraceptive method that will fail them so that we can make them abortion patients. 0.99

00:03:44.000 So we're willing to be loss leaders, if you will, in the contraceptive movement because we will eventually sell them our big-ticket item, which is abortion.

00:03:53.000 Now, you say that.

00:03:54.000 I want to be clear because I'm not necessarily against all contraception.

00:03:58.000 I don't know where you end up.

00:03:59.000 Now, you say you were actually encouraged to give them the less effective contraceptive available or do you just mean contraception in general?

00:04:06.000 Well, we want to give them a contraceptive method that has a higher risk of failure.

00:04:12.000 Really?

00:04:12.000 Right?

00:04:14.000 So, and what's going to have a higher risk of failure?

00:04:16.000 Those that have higher human error failure rates, right?

00:04:20.000 So, birth control pill.

00:04:22.000 I'm 35 years old.

00:04:24.000 I can't remember to take a pill at the same time every day, right?

00:04:28.000 A 14-year-old sure as heck is not going to remember to take a pill at the same time every day so that it's 99% effective, right?

00:04:36.000 So, put her on a pill that she's probably not going to take at the same time every day and That she's not going to know how to properly take. 0.99

00:04:43.000 Eventually, she will get pregnant and then she will be one of our clients. 1.00

00:04:48.000 That makes us now a quick question because you're going to have critics here.

00:04:51.000 Was that actually outlined to you as an employee at Planned Parenthood or was it just sort of an unwritten, well, we know that this contraception will eventually fail them or do they say, listen, our goal is to get them on the big hook for abortion?

00:05:04.000 Yeah, well, we had an abortion quota. 0.99

00:05:07.000 That I've actually exposed because I have the document that showed where the quota was on our budget sheet.

00:05:15.000 So we had a quota for abortion.

00:05:17.000 So we were to sell abortion to women when they came in. 1.00

00:05:22.000 Over 90% of pregnant women who enter Planned Parenthood will have an abortion.

00:05:27.000 Wait, what was that number?

00:05:29.000 Over 90%.

00:05:30.000 Over 90% of women who walk in through the doors will have an abortion.

00:05:34.000 Pregnant women. 1.00

00:05:35.000 Yeah.

00:05:35.000 Pregnant women.

00:05:36.000 So the idea that they're there to offer options or referrals for other services, it's just a farce.

00:05:43.000 Because my director told us that our goal was to create every phone call and every client visit to turn that into a revenue generating visit.

00:05:55.000 Well, if a woman comes in and she's pregnant, the only way we can do that is by selling her an abortion. 1.00

00:06:01.000 Right.

00:06:02.000 Because we don't do prenatal care.

00:06:05.000 Family and Parenthood does not provide prenatal care at any of their clinics across the country.

00:06:09.000 They don't do, you know, adoption services.

00:06:13.000 We don't make money off of that.

00:06:14.000 So the only way we could make money was to sell women an abortion. 0.99

00:06:18.000 And we were given the directive to sell abortion.

00:06:20.000 So it's the Glengarry Glen Ross of Dead Babies.

00:06:23.000 ABC Always Be Closing.

00:06:25.000 That was given from the top down.

00:06:27.000 Not to make abortion jokes, but we have to actually.

00:06:30.000 Otherwise, I get horribly uncomfortable with serious topics.

00:06:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:06:33.000 You knew what you were going to get into.

00:06:34.000 I got it.

00:06:35.000 Yeah, I follow you.

00:06:36.000 Yeah.

00:06:36.000 So that's exactly it.

00:06:37.000 And I talked about that with Planned Parenthood, their website.

00:06:40.000 The highest quality health services at the lowest possible prices.

00:06:43.000 This was the first video I ever did that went semi-viral.

00:06:46.000 I think at the time it maybe got 30,000 plays.

00:06:48.000 And we did Crazy Pete's Abortion Barn. 1.00

00:06:51.000 And it was Planned Parenthood as a dirty used car salesman. 0.96

00:06:54.000 Because I thought back then, not knowing what you're saying now, that it just seemed like scummy, greasy, dirty car salesmen. 0.86

00:07:01.000 And you're telling me that behind the scenes that was the goal, abortion quotas.

00:07:06.000 And it sounds terrible and people are like, well, how are you making – using humor is not making light of a situation.

00:07:11.000 It's shining a light on the situation.

00:07:13.000 I mean how else do you – abortion quotas, it's so laughable it's horrifying.

00:07:18.000 Right.

00:07:19.000 I can't believe that they actually gave that to you as a directive.

00:07:21.000 Okay, we'll come back here from this break because I want to talk about your turning point.

00:07:26.000 And that's what my wife and I talked about for a long time.

00:07:28.000 Lotto with Crowder, abbyjohnson.org.

00:07:31.000 Back with Abby Johnson, abbyjohnson.com, of the book Unplanned.

00:07:31.000 Stay tuned.

00:07:36.000 Listen, my wife loves this book.

00:07:39.000 And she talked about something, Abby, to get a little serious here, she talks about your turning point.

00:07:43.000 I don't want to give anything away for the listener, but you pinpointed Yeah.

00:07:55.000 So after working there for eight years, I mean, I was the director, so I wasn't, you know, in the room very often for medical procedures or anything like that.

00:08:07.000 We had a visiting physician come in from out of town who was performing abortions at my facility. 0.95

00:08:15.000 Planned Parenthood's protocol and the National Abortion Federation, their protocol for abortion is that it be done in a blind manner.

00:08:23.000 So they have a suction tube that's hooked up to the machine and they just blindly poke around inside the woman's uterus until they think they have enough tissue in a jar. 1.00

00:08:35.000 So that was the way that I knew abortion to be performed day in and day out.

00:08:40.000 But this doctor actually used an ultrasound at his own practice I don't know that I agree with the premise, but continue.

00:09:02.000 was something I never really thought about before.

00:09:04.000 So he said that, you know, if time permitted that he would have me come in so I could assist.

00:09:11.000 My job during the abortion was to hold the ultrasound probe on the woman's abdomen so that he could see what was going on during the abortion. 0.85

00:09:20.000 And I watched a 13-week-old baby fight and struggle for his life during that abortion procedure.

00:09:30.000 I knew then that I had been lied to.

00:09:33.000 I knew that because of that, I had in turn lied to thousands of women who had come through my facility.

00:09:39.000 I estimate that I helped to provide about 20,000 abortions during my time with Planned Parenthood.

00:09:45.000 So I knew I had to get out.

00:09:47.000 I knew I had to leave.

00:09:48.000 And that was when I made the decision to quit.

00:09:52.000 How soon did that occur after that moment with the ultrasound?

00:09:57.000 I left about a week later.

00:10:00.000 So sometimes people will go back and they go, Oh, I had my sort of come to Jesus moment.

00:10:00.000 Okay.

00:10:04.000 And you realize what didn't really happen.

00:10:05.000 So this was literally within the week you were gone.

00:10:08.000 Yeah, and I didn't want to leave my job because I made a ton of money at Planned Parenthood.

00:10:14.000 Oh, sure.

00:10:14.000 And all of my friends were there, so I didn't want to leave.

00:10:17.000 I was trying really hard to make it okay in my mind, you know, what I had seen.

00:10:23.000 But after a week, I was just like, I can't do it.

00:10:26.000 I can't make this right in my mind.

00:10:27.000 Are you still friends with any of them?

00:10:30.000 No, no.

00:10:31.000 No, they testified against me in court, actually, so we don't really talk anymore.

00:10:35.000 Yeah, that can kind of put a damper on the whole friendship.

00:10:38.000 Now, how did they testify against you?

00:10:41.000 Well, three weeks after I left Planned Parenthood, they took me to court.

00:10:49.000 And they were concerned that I was going to share proprietary information about the organization, which...

00:11:00.000 That was a reasonable concern for them.

00:11:02.000 Yeah, let's be honest here.

00:11:05.000 Let's be honest.

00:11:06.000 Yeah, that was a concern.

00:11:09.000 But, you know, you can't sue somebody for becoming pro-life and I had never signed any sort of confidentiality statement while working there.

00:11:18.000 So they lost and that's it.

00:11:22.000 Well, even then, though, it would seem in most cases, and you can tell me I'm out of line here, friends, people who are your friends, you develop these strong relationships.

00:11:33.000 Generally speaking, if it comes down to siding with a corporation or an organization or a friend, they would side with the friend.

00:11:42.000 So what do you think was such a strong pull that they decided to support Planned Parenthood or the organization to come against you, Abby, the person in court?

00:11:51.000 Yeah, I think money.

00:11:52.000 I think they were concerned about losing their job.

00:11:56.000 They were higher-level employees with Planned Parenthood, so I think that was certainly a concern.

00:12:01.000 I mean, they didn't know that this would happen, but after they testified against me, they actually got fired.

00:12:09.000 So, yeah, it might have been different if they would have been able to see ahead to that.

00:12:14.000 Why were they fired?

00:12:16.000 I don't know. 0.96

00:12:18.000 Is it because they were crappy witnesses? 0.92

00:12:19.000 No. 0.90

00:12:20.000 I guess so, yeah.

00:12:22.000 That's a weird reason to be fired, but I'm glad they were.

00:12:24.000 I'm not contesting it, but that's a weird reason to be fired.

00:12:27.000 No, no, no.

00:12:28.000 I'm glad that they were fired, too.

00:12:31.000 The problem is it just gets replaced.

00:12:33.000 Let me ask you this.

00:12:34.000 When you see You know, I've talked about this with my producer, actually, who's not here right now, Fundip, who is liberal socially but incredibly pro-life.

00:12:42.000 When you see the political football being played with the issue of abortion and Planned Parenthood comes in the news, I mean, right, the defense is always from the left.

00:12:50.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:12:51.000 It's not about abortions.

00:12:52.000 They provide health care to millions of women in this country who would otherwise never be able to afford it.

00:12:58.000 The right is just, this is their anti-woman sexist crusade.

00:13:04.000 What do you think when you hear that?

00:13:07.000 You know, Planned Parenthood does not provide any services in regard to women's healthcare that low-income women cannot get from any other federally qualified health center, rural public health center, hospital system, or Medicaid provider in their city.

00:13:25.000 There is not one place where Planned Parenthood is located where there are not multiple other options for her to get healthcare.

00:13:33.000 If she's low income.

00:13:35.000 And believe it or not, Planned Parenthood is not always that inexpensive.

00:13:38.000 I mean, sometimes women are having to pay anywhere from $50 to $175 to get an annual exam with Planned Parenthood. 1.00

00:13:47.000 Sometimes not, but sometimes they do.

00:13:49.000 How much would an abortion cost in comparison? 0.95

00:13:53.000 It starts at about $400.

00:13:55.000 Okay.

00:13:55.000 So even the abortions aren't necessarily inexpensive.

00:13:58.000 No.

00:13:59.000 What if someone can't afford it?

00:14:02.000 We would give them tips on how to raise money for their abortion. 0.99

00:14:07.000 Okay.

00:14:08.000 So it's not like an emergency room where you have to serve them anyway and then...

00:14:11.000 No, no, no, no.

00:14:12.000 Okay.

00:14:12.000 No, you have to pay.

00:14:14.000 In fact, if a woman came in... 1.00

00:14:17.000 They're not even altruistic in their abortion providing.

00:14:19.000 No, no, no.

00:14:19.000 It still comes down to the dollars.

00:14:20.000 No, they're not charitable.

00:14:22.000 Come on.

00:14:24.000 We would...

00:14:24.000 They...

00:14:25.000 This is, like, really heinous, but this is true.

00:14:30.000 Um...

00:14:31.000 When a woman would come in, we would take her payment based on her last cycle. 1.00

00:14:37.000 So we would say, okay, you're, you know, we think based on your last cycle, you're eight weeks and five days pregnant, right?

00:14:43.000 Well, if we got them back to the room for their abortion and we did the ultrasound and we found that they were actually, let's say, 10 days, 10 weeks and one day pregnant, well, there's a price difference between eight weeks and 10 weeks, $100 price difference.

00:14:57.000 So somebody, usually the last person hired, We'd be tasked to go into the room while the woman's on the table and say, hey, you're a little bit further along than what we thought you were, so we're going to need to collect $100 extra before we can start your abortion procedure. 1.00

00:15:13.000 And then we would be like, is it down in your purse?

00:15:16.000 Do you want me to grab it for you?

00:15:18.000 Or does your boyfriend have it out front?

00:15:19.000 Or how do you want to take care of that?

00:15:21.000 I've been hustled in the streets of New York more politely.

00:15:25.000 Literally, for a bag of M&Ms.

00:15:27.000 I'm not joking.

00:15:28.000 That's a true story.

00:15:29.000 It cost $2 for a package.

00:15:31.000 I ended up losing $20.

00:15:32.000 But I had five bags of M&Ms, so I guess I ended up-- There you go.

00:15:35.000 OK.

00:15:36.000 My cousins never let me forget it.

00:15:37.000 That is unbelievable.

00:15:40.000 So OK.

00:15:41.000 So again, Glen, Gary, Glen Ross, it's all about the upsell, right?

00:15:44.000 It's like, do you want the large popcorn?

00:15:47.000 Pay an extra $100 for your abortion.

00:15:51.000 Now, where do you line up politically, for those listening?

00:15:53.000 Were you to the left before and did you shift your whole political ideology or just in the life issue?

00:15:59.000 You know, I was definitely as left as left could be when I worked at Planned Parenthood.

00:16:09.000 It was funny when I first started getting calls about doing media interviews and I got a call to go on Bill O'Reilly's show and I called my parents.

00:16:19.000 Who are very conservative.

00:16:20.000 And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to go on Fox News.

00:16:23.000 And my mom was like, you hate Fox News.

00:16:25.000 And I was like, yeah, I think maybe I'm going to start watching it now.

00:16:30.000 But, you know, it was...

00:16:31.000 I mean, it wasn't...

00:16:32.000 A lot of things changed in my life.

00:16:34.000 So, you know, I'm probably too liberal for most conservatives.

00:16:39.000 I'm too conservative for most liberals.

00:16:41.000 I follow a consistent life ethic.

00:16:43.000 So I'm against the death penalty, against abortion, against...

00:16:46.000 Assisted suicide.

00:16:48.000 So that kind of has me fall in the middle.

00:16:51.000 Okay, that makes sense.

00:16:52.000 So then you would have a better perspective as someone who is pro-life.

00:16:55.000 I do say this, though.

00:16:56.000 Since you're pro-life, would you agree with me?

00:16:58.000 I say, listen, there are open-handed issues, there are closed-handed issues.

00:17:00.000 I could vote for a Democrat in a local election because there are pro-life Democrats in a local election who don't, you know, they don't have the control to increase the size of the federal government, you know, and local municipalities have the right to do public schools.

00:17:13.000 That's within their right.

00:17:14.000 But I do think that if you are pro-life, if you believe that is a life, it precludes you.

00:17:20.000 From supporting the Democrat platform in a national election.

00:17:24.000 Am I out of line?

00:17:26.000 No, I think you're absolutely right.

00:17:27.000 Because, I mean, you're right.

00:17:31.000 The state and local elections, I mean, I have pro-life Democrat friends who I'd happily vote for.

00:17:41.000 But when it comes to a federal election, national election, I hate it.

00:17:49.000 You know, I wish it wasn't that way.

00:17:51.000 I wish it wasn't such a party issue.

00:17:53.000 But no, I mean, you've got a, you know, the Democratic Party who's trying to take God out of their platform, who is trying to make abortion one of the top, you know, issues in their platform.

00:18:04.000 I mean, how can you...

00:18:05.000 It's women's health. 1.00

00:18:06.000 Careful with your language now.

00:18:07.000 Right, right.

00:18:08.000 I'm sorry.

00:18:09.000 Don't make me be sexist and correct your self-loathing woman-ness.

00:18:15.000 But now, like, now we have a new push.

00:18:17.000 Like, in Washington, D.C., there's these clinics called Carafem, and they are proud.

00:18:21.000 Oh, I saw them!

00:18:22.000 The abortion spa!

00:18:24.000 Yeah!

00:18:25.000 Yeah.

00:18:25.000 Absolutely.

00:18:26.000 Yeah, I know.

00:18:27.000 They were like, abortion?

00:18:28.000 Yeah, we do that.

00:18:29.000 They're not trying to hide behind that. 0.99

00:18:31.000 Let's show the disgusting broads drinking tea, talking about their uteruses. 1.00

00:18:36.000 Which, by the way, I don't really want to talk about uteruses even if it is non-abortion related. 0.99

00:18:41.000 I think that makes me sexist, but just a personal opinion.

00:18:46.000 It's okay.

00:18:47.000 You're a guy.

00:18:48.000 I don't want to talk about uteruses either. 0.99

00:18:51.000 I don't think you particularly want to talk about my scrotum. 0.91

00:18:53.000 I think it's fair. 0.92

00:18:54.000 I don't.

00:18:55.000 That is fair.

00:18:56.000 That is fair.

00:18:58.000 But I do think I'm entitled to an opinion.

00:19:00.000 For example, I'm sure you have very impassioned opinions on scrotums.

00:19:07.000 Okay.

00:19:08.000 Well, that's okay.

00:19:08.000 You don't have to, but it's your right.

00:19:12.000 This will never make air.

00:19:13.000 But if I wanted to, I could.

00:19:15.000 Well, that's one thing that really bothers me, right?

00:19:17.000 No uterus, no opinion. 0.81

00:19:18.000 It's not about your uterus. 0.62

00:19:20.000 It's about that life.

00:19:22.000 It's about that baby.

00:19:23.000 And this is one thing where they go, well, the Republican is going to tell you what you can do with your body.

00:19:27.000 In no other instance.

00:19:28.000 None.

00:19:29.000 None.

00:19:30.000 Does the Republican Party platform – you might have some individuals like Dick Morris and your feet or something like that.

00:19:36.000 But no actual Republican platform has an interest in a lady's body in any other facet aside from what has to do with that life.

00:19:45.000 They don't want to have an opinion on whether you can buy contraception, whether you can shave your legs, whether you can work – none of it.

00:19:50.000 Shouldn't that show people that it's not really about taking your body?

00:19:52.000 No, to be perfectly honest, the Republican Party is not really interested in what you're doing with your body.

00:19:57.000 We're more interested in what you're doing with the body of the innocent person that's in your womb. 0.94

00:20:02.000 Exactly.

00:20:03.000 That's what we're interested in.

00:20:04.000 You can do whatever you want to with your body.

00:20:06.000 You can go pierce it up.

00:20:08.000 You can get a bunch of tattoos.

00:20:09.000 Do whatever you want.

00:20:11.000 Does Planned Parenthood do piercings? 1.00

00:20:14.000 Does Planned Parenthood do piercings? 1.00

00:20:14.000 Huh? 1.00

00:20:16.000 Never mind.

00:20:16.000 We have to go to a break, but I'll bring you right back.

00:20:16.000 Don't answer that.

00:20:18.000 AbbyJohnson, abbyjohnson.com.

00:20:20.000 Stay tuned.

00:20:21.000 Back with Abby Johnson.

00:20:23.000 I'm surprised she stayed after all of that Nether Region talk beforehand.

00:20:26.000 But you have to talk about it when you're dealing with abortion. 0.98

00:20:28.000 I mean, feminists are so ugly in their language right now. 1.00

00:20:33.000 And the truth is, you have people out there like Patricia Heaton. 0.97

00:20:34.000 You have people who are genuinely strong women who support women.

00:20:38.000 In selling their personalities, in putting on display their talents and their skills as opposed to their body.

00:20:45.000 And there really is a tie-in between the abortion issue and what we sort of call third-wave feminism. 1.00

00:20:52.000 Have you noticed now, I guess sort of being more middle of the road, the pushback on this authoritarian feminism that you see from people at Planned Parenthood and CARA-FEM, those kinds of campaigns? 0.94

00:21:05.000 Yeah, I think so.

00:21:06.000 I mean, I think we're seeing a lot, you know, kind of this idea of like new feminism. 0.91

00:21:10.000 We're seeing a push in that, and that's really exciting, actually.

00:21:15.000 I mean, I have some friends that are pro-choice writers, and, you know, they have told me, you know, Abby, if there's one thing that's going to flip this abortion movement on its head, it's going to be When women really embrace this idea of new feminism, that women don't have to choose between being a mom and having a career, right?

00:21:34.000 We can have both and that we're not just breeders, that we have more to contribute to society than just our ability to have children, which is amazing, but we're not just that.

00:21:46.000 But no one thinks of you that.

00:21:47.000 I'll tell you something.

00:21:49.000 Men don't think of you that way at all, particularly the pro-life men who tend to respect women much more. 0.87

00:21:54.000 Listen, a pro-life man doesn't get to check out and say, sorry, sweetheart, go have it sucked down a tube.

00:22:00.000 They have to assume responsibility for that woman.

00:22:02.000 So I'm just saying it, not to derail the conversation, but I have tons of guy friends.

00:22:08.000 Never once does a conversation go, hey, now that the women are wrong, they're going to, Aren't you just so glad that we have a bunch of walking uteruses waiting on us hand and foot to make sandwiches? 1.00

00:22:19.000 It never comes up.

00:22:22.000 So, you know, and there's been I think there's been actually just like there's been more racial division in this country.

00:22:26.000 There's been more gender, sexual division I think than ever because there's a rejection of this from this supposed men's rights activists, which are kind of silly too, and this third wave feminism.

00:22:36.000 And it sounds like you, maybe even some pro-choice friends that you have, are somewhere in the middle where you can find reason.

00:22:43.000 Yeah, and I think they're – they hate it, honestly.

00:22:47.000 They hate that this idea of new feminism makes sense, this pro-life feminism.

00:22:52.000 They hate that that makes sense to them because it completely goes against the traditional feminist model, right? 1.00

00:22:59.000 There is no equality between the sexes, that women should be ahead of men, that it's not about equality, that it's this us versus them. 0.97

00:23:08.000 But if you're ahead of men, then we have rape culture, and that's a whole other problem. 1.00

00:23:11.000 That's a whole other thing, right?

00:23:13.000 Yeah.

00:23:14.000 We need to do another show about that.

00:23:15.000 Yeah, we need to figure out where exactly we need to be in the line to just avoid the rape culture and the retroactive non-consent is a big issue now. 0.53

00:23:23.000 Right, right.

00:23:24.000 I want to ask you this now.

00:23:25.000 Are you familiar with, I'm sure, Anne McElhinney and the Gosnell movie that they're doing?

00:23:28.000 Yes.

00:23:29.000 So we had her on the show and she talked about the horror stories of Gosnell.

00:23:32.000 Yep.

00:23:33.000 Now, she contends that obviously he's terrible and they're doing a movie on it because it was a national story, but that it's not that far off from what's probably happening at some other abortion clinics across this country.

00:23:47.000 Now, we're not talking about the sanitary conditions, but how far along the trail they actually do abortions, how it's just a chop-shot boom, in and out.

00:23:55.000 How much in common do you think someone like Gosnell would share with the general American abortion doctor, maybe at Planned Parenthood?

00:24:03.000 You know, I don't think a whole lot, honestly.

00:24:06.000 I mean, yes, I think Gosnell was...

00:24:09.000 I do think that he was a rare sort of...

00:24:14.000 He was running a sort of rare kind of operation.

00:24:17.000 There are others like him.

00:24:20.000 We know that Douglas Carpin in Houston, who's no longer practicing as an abortionist.

00:24:26.000 You know, we know that he was doing the same sorts of things.

00:24:29.000 We know that Pendergraft is doing those sorts of things.

00:24:32.000 Carhartt, you know, these...

00:24:33.000 It's these later term abortionists, those that are willing to do abortions into the third trimester, because let's be honest, if you're willing to do abortions into the third trimester, you're probably kind of shaky on morality in the first place.

00:24:48.000 But not to people like Elizabeth Warren.

00:24:51.000 Yeah, well, yeah.

00:24:53.000 But I think a lot of people, even pro-choicers I know, were just appalled by what they saw in the Gosnell trial and You know, I've talked to people who were actually there who are pro-choice writers who said, you know what, hearing about what took place inside of the clinic, that made me really question what's going on, you know, made me question the humanity of the unborn child, which is...

00:25:21.000 I think it's an interesting point there.

00:25:21.000 It's good.

00:25:23.000 So let me ask you.

00:25:24.000 Elizabeth Warren, Jared, do you remember the name of the other?

00:25:27.000 Gosh.

00:25:28.000 Wendy Davis.

00:25:30.000 They're almost interchangeable in my mind as just sort of the anti-baby cackling witches.

00:25:36.000 And I mean witches.

00:25:36.000 I don't mean the other word.

00:25:38.000 Cackling witches. 0.94

00:25:38.000 I mean witches. 0.94

00:25:39.000 Take it in context.

00:25:40.000 Who believe in abortion pretty much on demand, free.

00:25:44.000 I mean, you saw the tussle with Rand Paul and Elizabeth Warren.

00:25:46.000 Yes.

00:25:47.000 So you say a lot of your pro-choice writers or a lot of pro-choice people in the country were appalled at that.

00:25:52.000 But you didn't see the outrage from HuffPo, from liberal websites.

00:25:56.000 And you don't see the outrage in third trimester abortion from Democrat politicians.

00:26:00.000 So do you think that that's an issue where the elite are so much further along the trail that people, the general pro-choice person in this country, can be reached still effectively?

00:26:12.000 Yeah.

00:26:13.000 So here's the thing.

00:26:14.000 So anybody that's in leadership inside the pro-choice movement, they cannot deviate from abortion on demand without apology, right?

00:26:24.000 They cannot.

00:26:25.000 You cannot start saying, well, okay, I think abortion's okay here until 24 weeks, or I believe abortion's okay if it's done this way, but not that way, right?

00:26:36.000 Because then...

00:26:38.000 Pro-lifers can really easily start to pick apart your argument.

00:26:41.000 So for them, for people who are really leading this charge, I mean this was how it was for me at Planned Parenthood.

00:26:48.000 I mean you cannot deviate from the plan of legal abortion anywhere at all times without exception through all nine months of pregnancy.

00:27:00.000 That's a good point.

00:27:00.000 So you're saying even if those people in leadership may agree with those points that, hey, come on, you're talking about a third trimester abortion, they would, behind closed doors, you think, say, yeah, I agree, but they publicly cannot deviate from the game plan?

00:27:14.000 Yeah, they cannot.

00:27:16.000 I mean, I remember when I worked at Planned Parenthood just thinking, ugh, okay, abortion's after 24 weeks, so it seems...

00:27:23.000 You know, these babies are, they can survive out of the womb. 0.87

00:27:26.000 They're viable.

00:27:27.000 Well, you're saying after four weeks, so we're not even close to the third trimester at that point.

00:27:31.000 How often are abortions performed after four weeks in Planned Parenthood? 0.88

00:27:34.000 Not third trimester, but, you know, four, five, six-week abortions.

00:27:39.000 Well, so most abortions are performed before 12 weeks.

00:27:44.000 Right.

00:27:45.000 So there's – in the first trimester.

00:27:47.000 So the overwhelming majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester. 0.74

00:27:52.000 So I was saying I meant first month.

00:27:54.000 My apologies.

00:27:54.000 I was going – I got it.

00:27:56.000 So then there's a drop into second trimester abortions and then there's an even more significant drop into third trimester abortions.

00:28:06.000 Sure.

00:28:07.000 You're looking at maybe, we think maybe about 20,000 babies are aborted in the third trimester in the United States every year.

00:28:16.000 Okay.

00:28:17.000 That's still shocking.

00:28:19.000 I mean it's a lot.

00:28:20.000 Yeah, it's a lot.

00:28:21.000 I mean that's a point where there's really no scientific debate as to whether it's potentially viable, as to whether it's an individual, as to whether they have nerve endings.

00:28:29.000 There's no scientific debate at that point.

00:28:30.000 No, no, no.

00:28:31.000 So here's my point.

00:28:32.000 So – and I've always said this.

00:28:34.000 I think that with abortion, sort of the Oprah soundbite is it's ultimately sacrifice at the altar of self.

00:28:39.000 It's personal convenience.

00:28:41.000 Personal happiness is more important in this life.

00:28:43.000 And I feel like, and I think you've reiterated that, I want to make sure I don't misrepresent you.

00:28:47.000 There are people in the movement, we're at a point where it's not about women's rights.

00:28:51.000 They do believe it's a life, especially as science comes in.

00:28:54.000 They know it's a life.

00:28:56.000 They don't care anyway.

00:28:59.000 Is that unfair?

00:29:00.000 No, that's totally fair.

00:29:02.000 I mean, I remember a pro-lifer asking me one time, you know, when do you think life begins?

00:29:08.000 And I remember my answer just being like, what does it matter?

00:29:11.000 It doesn't matter when life begins because abortion is legal and I'm going to do everything I can to support legal abortion through all nine months of pregnancy.

00:29:19.000 That is not how I felt.

00:29:21.000 That's not actually what I felt in my heart.

00:29:23.000 That's not how I felt in my mind.

00:29:24.000 But I could not stray from that talking point.

00:29:29.000 Why did you go into this?

00:29:31.000 Why did you feel passionately enough about this to do it?

00:29:35.000 I've had two abortions myself.

00:29:38.000 About 70% of people that work in the abortion industry have had abortions.

00:29:42.000 So I think a lot of it is just kind of justifying your own past behavior or your own past mistakes.

00:29:47.000 But, I mean, honestly, I was just very naive.

00:29:50.000 I was a college student.

00:29:51.000 I didn't know anything about Planned Parenthood.

00:29:53.000 And, you know, when this woman is telling me how they serve these, you know, uninsured or underinsured women and they're the only hope for these women if they need health care.

00:30:03.000 I mean, it just sounds really, it sounds like Planned Parenthood is this I'm a benefactor to the masses.

00:30:08.000 And that was something that I was interested in helping with.

00:30:12.000 Okay.

00:30:12.000 So your heart was in the right place.

00:30:14.000 Maybe the mind took a little while to catch up.

00:30:16.000 Just very misguided.

00:30:18.000 That makes sense.

00:30:19.000 And I think there are a lot of people out there like you.

00:30:22.000 And like I said, I think there are people like Elizabeth Warrens.

00:30:24.000 Sure.

00:30:25.000 I just forgot her name again.

00:30:26.000 I just forgot her name.

00:30:27.000 Wendy Davis.

00:30:28.000 Gosh, I can never remember it.

00:30:29.000 You know why?

00:30:30.000 It's like a generic white lady name. 0.70

00:30:32.000 Right, yeah.

00:30:33.000 That's like, are you saying all our names are alike?

00:30:35.000 Yeah, I guess it's anti-white racism.

00:30:37.000 Wendy Davis. 0.98

00:30:38.000 It's racist.

00:30:42.000 So those people are beyond reaching.

00:30:44.000 You kind of have to make an example of them.

00:30:45.000 But there are people like you out there who are maybe not quite far enough along the trail.

00:30:49.000 And I do think Abby Johnson's book, Unplanned, is a great way to start.

00:30:53.000 AbbyJohnson.org.

00:30:55.000 Unplanned, much like our private part discussions in this interview.

00:31:00.000 Abby, thank you so much for being with us.

00:31:02.000 Sorry, did I miss anything?

00:31:03.000 Any closing words here that I missed?

00:31:05.000 No, I don't think so.

00:31:06.000 Oh, well, just so you know, you're talking about conversion...

00:31:11.000 I actually run an organization that reaches out to abortion clinic workers and helps them come over to the pro-life side.

00:31:21.000 We've had 160 workers come to us.

00:31:25.000 So there are a lot of people who are working in these clinics, who want to leave, who are looking for an excuse to leave, and they just need a hand.

00:31:35.000 They just need a hand up so that they can get out.

00:31:37.000 And that's what we've been able to provide.

00:31:39.000 And 160 of those workers were, six of them were abortionists that are now no longer performing abortions.

00:31:49.000 So it can happen.

00:31:51.000 Well, thank you, Abby.

00:31:52.000 But you must go peddle your anti-woman sexist propaganda elsewhere, abbyjohnson.org.

00:31:56.000 You must go.

00:31:57.000 Thanks for being with us.

00:31:58.000 Stay tuned to Louder with Crowder.

00:31:59.000 More after we keep the lights on with these sponsors.

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Louder with Crowder - July 29, 2015

Ex-Planned Parenthood Director Reveals All | Louder With Crowder

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