Louder with Crowder - Free Speech and Comedy Debate With Harrison Greenbaum

00:00:00.000 It's about consistency, and I don't think you're being consistent or fair in the application.

00:00:03.000 I'm saying I defend all comedians to say anything they want, but I don't defend hate speech, and that's the line.

00:00:09.000 That's silly.

00:00:12.000 There are there are.

00:00:13.000 Glad to bring on this next guest.

00:00:17.000 He actually had a bit of a bone to pick with me on Twitter.

00:00:19.000 We posted a story.

00:00:20.000 If you watch last comic standing, Norm MacDonald offered a critique for this man who's competing in the competition.

00:00:25.000 And there was a little bit of controversy.

00:00:27.000 So he said that if I were brave, I would bring him on the program.

00:00:31.000 Called me out.

00:00:32.000 I accepted it.

00:00:33.000 Listen, I posted the story.

00:00:34.000 Funny guy.

00:00:35.000 You can find him at Harrison Greenbaum dot com or follow him on Twitter and let him know what you think.

00:00:40.000 at Harrison Comedy.

00:00:43.000 Harrison?

00:00:43.000 Yep, exactly.

00:00:45.000 Okay, good.

00:00:45.000 Well, listen, let's let you take this off.

00:00:48.000 I don't want you to think that we're painting this in a way that's unfair.

00:00:51.000 So you let me know why you wanted to come on first, and then we can dance, you see?

00:00:57.000 All right.

00:00:58.000 Well, the headline of the article was Gay Comic Bash's Bible, and I'm neither gay nor bash the Bible, so it was untrue in both regards.

00:01:06.000 I'm actually looking at it right now.

00:01:07.000 It's Norm MacDonald disses...

00:01:09.000 Gay comic.

00:01:25.000 Well, first of all, in my set, I don't talk about my sexuality.

00:01:28.000 Oh, yeah.

00:01:29.000 Norman Donald, this is gay comic for Bible bashing.

00:01:32.000 So that was your assumption about my sexuality.

00:01:35.000 Okay, so let's split the difference.

00:01:37.000 With no basis in...

00:01:38.000 What's the title?

00:01:38.000 I mean, I don't talk about it.

00:01:40.000 There's nothing in the set about sexuality.

00:01:42.000 So you're just basing that on sort of bad stereotypes.

00:01:46.000 Yeah.

00:01:46.000 Are you gay?

00:01:47.000 I'm not, no.

00:01:49.000 Okay.

00:01:49.000 Well, then my apologies.

00:01:50.000 You definitely come across that way.

00:01:53.000 Alright, but I think it's weird to like...

00:01:55.000 First of all, I think you've used that information a little bit just because, you know, it seems like you're trying to use it in a pejorative sense.

00:02:03.000 Sure.

00:02:04.000 Which is bad.

00:02:05.000 The word pejorative...

00:02:06.000 Yeah, I know what the word pejorative means, but sure.

00:02:09.000 Okay.

00:02:09.000 So you're a comedian, right?

00:02:11.000 Right.

00:02:12.000 Right.

00:02:12.000 Okay.

00:02:13.000 So you were mad that – accepted.

00:02:16.000 You were mad that Norm Macdonald critiqued it.

00:02:17.000 You felt like they edited out your clip.

00:02:19.000 So we'll link to the whole clip here, right here in this video for those listening terrestrially.

00:02:24.000 We'll link to it at ladderwithcredit.com, the entire set.

00:02:27.000 So I don't want to say Bible bashing, and I guess if that's unfair.

00:02:31.000 Norm Macdonald, obviously one of the greatest comedic minds ever in the history of comedy, widely agreed upon in the comedy community, said that he didn't think it was brave because Roseanne said it was brave.

00:02:42.000 He said, you didn't know what you were talking about.

00:02:44.000 So, you said that the context of the full set, which you sent me, that I watched, changes the context.

00:02:49.000 Even in the article where it says, the look on the comedian's face was all you needed to see.

00:02:53.000 But that's not actually my face after he said that critique.

00:02:57.000 They edited it to make it look like that.

00:02:59.000 Oh, that's not fair.

00:03:01.000 You know, so that's, I mean...

00:03:04.000 Okay, but we're getting into semantics here, because I watched your whole set.

00:03:07.000 Your whole set was obviously making fun of someone who quoted the Bible, and you talked about it being fake and being a non-existent book, and then comparing it to Harry Potter.

00:03:14.000 That's fine.

00:03:14.000 Listen, you can say whatever.

00:03:16.000 Well, that's not what that joke does.

00:03:16.000 I'm not offended.

00:03:17.000 That's not what that joke is.

00:03:18.000 Yeah, it is.

00:03:20.000 No, the joke is, and you know, people can watch the clip.

00:03:23.000 People can watch the clip.

00:03:24.000 It's based on an actual experience.

00:03:26.000 I'm in the subway, and there was a person there who was always quoting from the Bible, and Yes.

00:03:30.000 I'm clearly quoting from the New Testament.

00:03:32.000 First of all, I'm Jewish, so they're quoting from the wrong book for me.

00:03:36.000 A book which you didn't even speak correctly, if we're going to get into semantics, is the book of Matthews.

00:03:40.000 So continue.

00:03:41.000 Just, again, if you want to get into who knows what words mean what, it's Matthew.

00:03:44.000 Which would have maybe irked Norm, who has one of the highest IQs in the entertainment industry next to James Woods.

00:03:50.000 I'm just saying.

00:03:51.000 So if you want to get into the whole, you know, start this off caustically, this is what pejorative means.

00:03:55.000 You didn't even use the right name to the book, and that's what Norm was calling you on.

00:03:58.000 He said you didn't know what you were talking about.

00:03:59.000 So continue.

00:04:00.000 Right.

00:04:02.000 But what I was saying, first of all, was using the word...

00:04:05.000 I was trying to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you didn't know what the word pejorative meant, because using the word gay pejoratively is a bad thing.

00:04:12.000 But anyway, back to what we're talking about.

00:04:15.000 The joke is just about the fact that people...

00:04:16.000 You use pejoratively in comedy all the time.

00:04:18.000 I mean, that's the whole thing.

00:04:19.000 That's the social justice warrior problem, is you want to become offended when it's convenient for you.

00:04:23.000 You know, I'm offended that I can't get up on stage anymore because Muslims want to...

00:04:26.000 You're saying calling somebody gay is something that's negative.

00:04:29.000 That's a problem.

00:04:30.000 I didn't say negative.

00:04:32.000 Pejorative means negative.

00:04:34.000 Yeah, but I didn't say negative.

00:04:35.000 You said using it in a pejorative way.

00:04:37.000 You applied that.

00:04:38.000 I didn't.

00:04:39.000 Continue with your story.

00:04:40.000 Again, that's another tactic.

00:04:41.000 Sorry, but that's another tactic.

00:04:43.000 You applied it in a gay way.

00:04:44.000 I said you can rewind the tape and hear you say that you were using the word gay in a pejorative negative sense.

00:04:50.000 You said you thought I was using it in a perturbative way.

00:04:52.000 I said, sure.

00:04:53.000 I think gay is an insult, and that is inappropriate, but besides that.

00:04:56.000 Yeah, I don't think so in comedy.

00:04:57.000 I don't think anything is inappropriate in comedy.

00:04:59.000 Continue, but this is a good way for the audience to see how the left views comedy versus the right views comedy.

00:05:04.000 You caught me.

00:05:04.000 I'll be honest.

00:05:05.000 I thought you were gay.

00:05:07.000 I apologize for that.

00:05:07.000 You're not.

00:05:08.000 Continue with the story.

00:05:10.000 All right.

00:05:11.000 The point is the joke is about people who will use, you know, not everybody agrees that the Bible is the ultimate authority.

00:05:17.000 Sure.

00:05:17.000 And if you're going to, I think that everybody can agree with.

00:05:20.000 And this person was quoting that book to the wrong person.

00:05:23.000 This joke in question is clearly about quoting a book when not everybody agrees it's the ultimate moral authority.

00:05:30.000 And that's me responding with another book that, you know, and that's the whole point of the joke.

00:05:36.000 Right.

00:05:37.000 You know, that's...

00:05:39.000 You know, that's not Bible bashing or saying it's fake.

00:05:41.000 There's other jokes where I get a little bit more into that stuff.

00:05:44.000 But in terms of the jokes in question, this joke, you know, I think everybody got it.

00:05:49.000 I think, you know, in the clip, they edited Norm to sound like he was talking to Cheers, that when he said something, he was cheered.

00:05:56.000 That's not the case.

00:05:57.000 He was booed by the audience.

00:05:59.000 The boos had to be shushed for him to complete what he was saying.

00:06:02.000 Okay, hold on one second.

00:06:03.000 One second, because I want to give you...

00:06:04.000 I know you're really, you know, you're really upset about the censorship deal.

00:06:06.000 But let me kind of explain something to you here that I think you're missing a little bit.

00:06:11.000 Sure.

00:06:11.000 Everything we wrote in the piece...

00:06:13.000 Is very, very, if people go read it, we'll link it here, is a stark contrast to what you're doing.

00:06:18.000 And what you're doing is a tenet of the left, and it's what's destroying comedy.

00:06:21.000 And let me explain to you.

00:06:22.000 You go, everyone got it, assuming Norm didn't get it.

00:06:25.000 Let me finish.

00:06:26.000 And then you say, as a matter of fact, people booed him, so we had to edit it.

00:06:29.000 So when I wrote in the piece and what Norm said was, you know, I didn't like the joke.

00:06:34.000 I didn't think you knew what you were talking about.

00:06:35.000 What I wrote in the piece was, this is shocking because no one says what Norm says.

00:06:40.000 Because it's really easy to go up and make jokes about Christians in New York.

00:06:44.000 It's really easy to go up and make middle Americans seem stupid.

00:06:46.000 So because no one says what Norm says, it's shocking because all of a sudden being a Christian more right-wing is more taboo.

00:06:52.000 We talked about that and what was edgy in comedy.

00:06:55.000 Everything you just did...

00:06:57.000 Was character assassination on myself and Norm?

00:07:00.000 People booed him.

00:07:01.000 He didn't get the joke.

00:07:02.000 I didn't say any of those things to you.

00:07:04.000 And I don't know why you feel that's conducive toward an environment for better comedy.

00:07:08.000 That's social justice warriorism to a T. I would disagree.

00:07:13.000 I mean, I think the, first of all, this piece, you know, it's stretching it to say that your article was in any way comedy.

00:07:19.000 I didn't say the article was comedy.

00:07:22.000 Okay.

00:07:23.000 As long as we're on that same page.

00:07:24.000 Right.

00:07:25.000 No, it's not.

00:07:26.000 The point is, the article is making it seem...

00:07:28.000 Anyway, I wanted to just be clear what the situation was in terms of Norm said his thing.

00:07:33.000 He was booed.

00:07:34.000 No, no, no, no.

00:07:35.000 You didn't address what I just said as far as the situation.

00:07:37.000 That's fine.

00:07:37.000 We'll get that context up.

00:07:39.000 You know, I've gone up and done comedy and been called to be fired by Huffington Post twice.

00:07:43.000 Once for saying the N-word, which I didn't say, and once for making a rape joke about Ashley Judd, which I did not make.

00:07:48.000 I in no way said, I'm offended by your joke.

00:07:51.000 I know I said I'm offended by your joke.

00:07:53.000 I will defend to the death that comedians write to joke about whatever they want.

00:07:55.000 Right.

00:07:56.000 But then you go and say, well, it's pejoratively and that's inappropriate.

00:07:58.000 And people booed and, you know, because someone didn't get the joke.

00:08:01.000 So you say that, but you don't really mean it.

00:08:04.000 And that's my issue.

00:08:05.000 What I'm saying is when somebody, the word gay has been used as a pejorative for a long time.

00:08:11.000 It's a schoolyard diss.

00:08:12.000 People used to call people gay when they were trying to insult them.

00:08:15.000 Listen, I said it because I thought you were gay.

00:08:18.000 And frankly, even now, I'm still on the fence.

00:08:18.000 Okay?

00:08:20.000 I'll take your word for it.

00:08:22.000 That's why I had to remind you with the word pejorative.

00:08:22.000 Then you don't...

00:08:25.000 If you're using it as a pejorative, if you're using it because you think that's something that would be insulting to me, or insulting to call anybody, that's a problem.

00:08:32.000 Google Steven Crowder faggot.

00:08:34.000 Okay?

00:08:35.000 People have used it for me for years.

00:08:36.000 Okay?

00:08:37.000 I understand what you're talking about.

00:08:38.000 I'm just saying...

00:08:38.000 Right.

00:08:39.000 I thought you were gay, and I thought that provided context.

00:08:42.000 If you're not gay, I'll go back and correct it.

00:08:46.000 My point is not that.

00:08:47.000 My point is...

00:08:48.000 No, it matters.

00:08:49.000 If you're not gay, if you're a straight man, and I said gay, I should go back and correct it, right?

00:08:53.000 So you're straight, and I should go back and correct it.

00:08:56.000 Absolutely.

00:08:56.000 That's fair.

00:08:58.000 Yeah, so we're in agreeance on that.

00:09:00.000 Yeah.

00:09:01.000 But to be fair, I don't think I'm the only one who made that assumption.

00:09:06.000 And it was a wrong one.

00:09:07.000 And that's totally fine.

00:09:08.000 If you see my full act, I talk about it at length.

00:09:11.000 So it's not like this is new territory for me.

00:09:14.000 So that's got to be tough.

00:09:14.000 Right.

00:09:16.000 I can only imagine.

00:09:17.000 My heart goes out to you.

00:09:18.000 Listen, I was a nerd in school.

00:09:19.000 Let's talk to not gay Jared.

00:09:21.000 Yeah.

00:09:22.000 Well, here he is.

00:09:23.000 There he is.

00:09:23.000 Yeah, he gets it all.

00:09:24.000 Not gay.

00:09:25.000 This is the life I live here.

00:09:26.000 This is the life you can't live all the time.

00:09:29.000 It's got to be a tough life to be propositioned all the time and not be gay.

00:09:33.000 We had another gay friend who was like...

00:09:34.000 I don't think I'm propositioned all the time.

00:09:36.000 How could you not?

00:09:37.000 Listen, okay, let's be honest here.

00:09:40.000 That would be a compliment if I was propositioned all the time.

00:09:42.000 Well, I don't come across anywhere near as gay as you do.

00:09:44.000 And again, this goes into play.

00:09:45.000 How could he say it?

00:09:46.000 You come across as gay.

00:09:47.000 I lived in Chelsea with my gay roommate for months.

00:09:50.000 I was propositioned every single day.

00:09:52.000 How are you not propositioned being in New York City?

00:09:56.000 I know you said proposition all the time.

00:09:57.000 I just am not.

00:09:58.000 It's not all the time.

00:10:00.000 Every now and then.

00:10:00.000 All right.

00:10:01.000 My issue is this, and I think Norm was right.

00:10:03.000 And if you read the article, the article was talking about what people think is edgy in comedy.

00:10:08.000 And I've talked about this many times as someone who has, I mean, actually, it's completely changed my life and my approach to comedy because of death threats.

00:10:15.000 It's one thing to make fun of Christians.

00:10:17.000 You make a joke about that.

00:10:18.000 You make a joke about why you don't make jokes about Islam.

00:10:22.000 Right, but the whole thing is the irony of that joke is it is a joke about Islam, right?

00:10:26.000 Not really.

00:10:27.000 But it is.

00:10:28.000 Not really.

00:10:29.000 The joke is, you can tell for the audience, the joke is like, I don't do it because, you know, they kill people.

00:10:35.000 Most of them don't, but it's the ones that do that count.

00:10:37.000 Something along those lines.

00:10:38.000 I'm butchering it because I don't remember the exact joke.

00:10:39.000 You can give it.

00:10:40.000 But that's not the same as going up and saying the Bible is a fictional book.

00:10:44.000 You spend a lot of time on the Bible and Christians and Southerners and maybe destroying Texas and how stupid they are.

00:10:49.000 And you spend a couple of seconds saying, well, you won't make fun of Israel.

00:10:52.000 The only thing about Texas is the fact they do have a law that allows blind people to hunt.

00:10:56.000 Yes, I thought it was a funny bit.

00:10:58.000 I think that's fair game for me to talk about.

00:11:01.000 It's not me saying Texas should kill itself.

00:11:03.000 That's me saying you shouldn't have a Texas, and there is also Michigan.

00:11:08.000 There are two states where blind people can hunt.

00:11:10.000 I'm all about people having rights, but blind people having hunting licenses is silly.

00:11:16.000 I think it's a funny bit.

00:11:18.000 It goes to what Norm said, and that's what we were talking about.

00:11:20.000 It's easy.

00:11:21.000 It's a lot easier to go up in New York and make fun of Christians in the Bible, and you did so inaccurately, which is fair.

00:11:29.000 It's like, I inaccurately thought you were gay.

00:11:31.000 I don't think I made fun of it inaccurately, though.

00:11:35.000 Norm's criticism that J.K. Rowling...

00:11:36.000 You start off with not even using the right name of the book.

00:11:41.000 Matthew's 4-4?

00:11:42.000 Matthew.

00:11:44.000 Does – okay.

00:11:46.000 I'm just saying.

00:11:46.000 You start off – yeah.

00:11:47.000 So there you go.

00:11:48.000 There's the starting point.

00:11:49.000 And then he went on and he talked about – I always say token.

00:11:53.000 The nerds are going to get so mad.

00:11:54.000 Not token.

00:11:55.000 The Harry Potter author.

00:11:56.000 J.K. Rowling.

00:11:57.000 Let's get that right.

00:11:57.000 J.K. Rowling.

00:11:59.000 And Gandalf has nothing to do with it.

00:12:01.000 Believe me.

00:12:02.000 People will send letters talking about her, saying that anyone who read the – By the way, also, Matthew, which we're talking about, is also known colloquially as Matthew's version.

00:12:12.000 And the shortened version of that is Matthew's.

00:12:13.000 Did you bring that up on Google right now?

00:12:15.000 I did.

00:12:16.000 So if we're going to go fact for fact, Matthew's and Matthew are interchangeable according to the internet.

00:12:16.000 I did.

00:12:22.000 But anyway, back to the scene.

00:12:24.000 Yeah, according to the internet, you can also put quotations inside or outside of periods.

00:12:28.000 And color can be spelled with a U. You're talking to a Canadian here, so we play by different rules, my friend.

00:12:35.000 Listen, I think you're funny.

00:12:36.000 I think a lot of your bits are funny.

00:12:38.000 The thing we wrote about was accurate, and I stand by it, that Norm said, you should know what you're talking about.

00:12:43.000 And he was responding to Roseanne saying, I ain't got some really brave shot.

00:12:47.000 And Norm said, I didn't think it was brave at all.

00:12:49.000 And that sent the room into booze.

00:12:52.000 Now, if you were to go up and make Islamic jokes, you wouldn't get a laugh.

00:12:56.000 Roseanne probably wouldn't praise it as brave.

00:12:58.000 Norm Macdonald would praise it as brave, and he would still get booed.

00:13:01.000 You see the difference in the environment and comedy now?

00:13:03.000 That's what we were talking about in the article.

00:13:06.000 You know, I can see a little bit of that.

00:13:08.000 I mean, I think my point was just the reason they were booing them was because I crushed my set and they didn't like that he was criticizing it.

00:13:16.000 But, you know, I think the whole J.K. Rowling line of reasoning is silly.

00:13:19.000 And that was, you know, where he said J.K. Rowling is a Christian.

00:13:23.000 My point was it didn't matter what book I was comparing it to.

00:13:26.000 My point was saying if you don't believe in that book, then you could use any other book.

00:13:31.000 It won't make a difference.

00:13:32.000 So it doesn't matter if the book is by J.K. Rowling, who's a Christian, or if the book is written by anybody else.

00:13:38.000 Okay, we have to go to a break.

00:13:39.000 But we're getting into explaining a joke, which is not what I was requesting.

00:13:42.000 It's the worst thing in the world to do.

00:13:43.000 Yes, exactly.

00:13:43.000 And that's because of your cult of leftism and that's seen in the rest of your set.

00:13:46.000 So Lotter with Crowder.

00:13:47.000 We won't edit him.

00:13:48.000 Come right back after we keep these lights on.

00:13:50.000 Back with Harrison Greenbaum, comedian, not my biggest fan.

00:13:54.000 You can follow him at Harrison Comedy on Twitter because I'm sure he will be tweeting out about this.

00:14:01.000 So Harrison, we were talking about that before the break.

00:14:02.000 We got into explaining the joke.

00:14:06.000 We didn't explain the joke in the piece.

00:14:08.000 Famously explaining the joke is, you know, the E.B. White quote about, it's like dissecting a frog, that the frog dies of it and everybody's bored of it.

00:14:15.000 Right.

00:14:16.000 But no one would ever have to explain a joke if people didn't get so offended.

00:14:22.000 Now we, I wasn't offended at your joke at all.

00:14:25.000 I was pointing out something and you were offended.

00:14:27.000 Because you're bringing up Norm's criticism.

00:14:29.000 Yes.

00:14:29.000 Norm's criticism is based on a false interpretation of my joke.

00:14:33.000 He clearly didn't understand my joke.

00:14:36.000 Or if he did, his interpretation of it didn't jive with it.

00:14:40.000 And I think he thought it was very safe.

00:14:43.000 And I think...

00:14:43.000 Saying J.K. Rowling is Christian and saying that that is a criticism in any way of my joke is silly.

00:14:48.000 That's what we're talking about.

00:14:49.000 We're not talking about the brave part.

00:14:51.000 We're talking about...

00:14:52.000 No, that's not what we're talking about.

00:14:53.000 That's what I was talking about.

00:14:55.000 And we even went on to post another article.

00:14:57.000 We're talking about what Norm was talking about.

00:14:58.000 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:14:59.000 No, no, no, hold on a second.

00:14:59.000 Now the first...

00:15:00.000 Hold on a second.

00:15:01.000 The main thing...

00:15:02.000 Let me finish here.

00:15:03.000 The main thing...

00:15:04.000 That we focused on, and the main thing that Norm said was in response to Roseanne Barr, who's never made an unsafe joke in her life when she said it was really brave, Norm said, and this was the only risky thing amongst all the sets there that was said against all the judges.

00:15:19.000 The one risky thing was the thing Norm said, and he said, I didn't think it was risky at all.

00:15:25.000 That's what we're talking about.

00:15:26.000 He was edited down.

00:15:27.000 He talked for about 10 minutes about J.K. Rowling being a Christian and all that stuff.

00:15:31.000 That was my focus and the focus of the piece.

00:15:34.000 Right, exactly.

00:15:35.000 The focus from the edit versus what happened is different.

00:15:38.000 But my point is...

00:15:39.000 And that's fair.

00:15:40.000 That's fair to say they edited you.

00:15:41.000 Like I said, that's fair.

00:15:43.000 But that's why I want to talk about, you know, if he went on about J.K. Rowling, I don't know, just like I don't want to judge you based on an edit I didn't see, just like I don't want to judge Norm on an edit I didn't see.

00:15:52.000 What I did see was you make a joke about the Bible, him say that's not risky.

00:15:56.000 I think that was accurate.

00:15:59.000 Regardless of risk or not, though, I can only do jokes from my point of view.

00:16:04.000 My point of view is somebody who is skeptical of religion.

00:16:10.000 Very mainstream view in comedy.

00:16:13.000 Very safe mainstream view in comedy, and that was Norm's point.

00:16:16.000 Regardless, though, that's the only way I can make a joke because I'm coming from my own perspective.

00:16:20.000 And I don't know if it's...

00:16:21.000 Obviously, it's stuff that still needs to be said when you have people like Kim Davis who are, you know, using the Bible to say she can't gay marry and then getting divorced three times.

00:16:32.000 You know, people use the Bible selectively to continue to do it.

00:16:36.000 There are candidates like Mike Huckabee who still uses the Bible.

00:16:38.000 Stick with telling the jokes and not having to back it up because that is the most poor line of reasoning I've ever seen in a Kim Davis case.

00:16:43.000 And you and I would agree on the Kim Davis case.

00:16:46.000 You and I would agree on the Kim Davis case.

00:16:47.000 Exactly.

00:16:47.000 No, no.

00:16:48.000 The same thing you did with Norm.

00:16:49.000 The same thing you tried to do with the piece, which is Norm just didn't get it.

00:16:52.000 Norm just, you know, Norm was booed.

00:16:54.000 It's Kim Davis had three divorces.

00:16:56.000 Listen, man.

00:16:57.000 Argue the case.

00:16:58.000 Argue the law.

00:16:59.000 This is what the left does.

00:17:00.000 You argue the person.

00:17:02.000 You assassinate the character of the person.

00:17:04.000 This entire time, I've said your joke wasn't risky.

00:17:07.000 Your defense is Norm didn't know what he's talking about.

00:17:10.000 People booed him.

00:17:11.000 And now the Kim Davis thing is not the Supreme Court and the laws and 14th Amendment or states' rights or tyrannies.

00:17:15.000 It's she had a ton of divorces.

00:17:17.000 That's poor, poor reasoning.

00:17:19.000 And I think you're smarter than that.

00:17:20.000 No, it's not necessarily poor reasoning.

00:17:21.000 I think the reason people bring it up is if you're going to use the Bible to justify your actions, then you need to follow the Bible.

00:17:21.000 It is.

00:17:27.000 The Bible's against gay marriage, according to her.

00:17:29.000 It's total bullcrap and you know it.

00:17:30.000 But it's also against divorce marriage.

00:17:31.000 It's also against getting divorced.

00:17:33.000 It's total bullcrap and you know it.

00:17:36.000 That the Bible doesn't want you to get divorced?

00:17:38.000 If you're going to follow the Bible, you have to follow it 100%.

00:17:38.000 No, no.

00:17:40.000 Therefore, nobody who's a Christian can actually adhere to any biblical laws because no one is perfect.

00:17:45.000 It's the stupidest line of reasoning I've ever heard.

00:17:48.000 But the point is that people who are against gay marriage are using the Bible to justify it, and yet, you know, they take the truth.

00:17:54.000 Actually, in that case, no.

00:17:55.000 In that case, no.

00:17:56.000 You have a lot of atheists who have talked about judicial tyranny.

00:18:00.000 People like Rand Paul out there who are not big government religious types.

00:18:03.000 But we're not talking about them.

00:18:04.000 We're talking about Kim Gates.

00:18:05.000 No, but you tried to tar and feather everyone who might line up with a different point of view than you, just like you did with Norm MacDonald, by painting them as hypocritical Bible thumpers, as opposed to arguing the law, as opposed to arguing the joke and the safe lily pad from which you hop with your joke.

00:18:20.000 You argue that Norm didn't get it and he was booed.

00:18:22.000 Besides the fact that the last show, which was about my overweight cousin, which got an equal amount of flack, and you've seen the so-called left side, and you've been tweeting about...

00:18:34.000 Fat shaming.

00:18:35.000 I can't remember her name.

00:18:36.000 Nicole Arbor.

00:18:37.000 Yeah.

00:18:37.000 And that whole thing about her doing the fat shaming video, and then censorship, all that whole thing.

00:18:43.000 So it's not like I'm...

00:18:46.000 Yes, you are.

00:18:47.000 Yes, you are.

00:18:48.000 You're not picking that one, but yes, you are.

00:18:50.000 You do say, well, that can't be used pejoratively.

00:18:50.000 You do pick it.

00:18:52.000 You know, it's the same reason why I have to get, you know, it's a, listen, here's the truth.

00:18:56.000 Because of someone like you saying you can't use gay pejoratively, there's some kid right now who, let's say like me when I was 17 getting started before there were smartphones, or some kid starting an open mic club who has a bit where out of context uses the word fag, or like me, out of context where I ended my set on the word nigger.

00:19:14.000 I ended it quoting a famous French rap song.

00:19:17.000 And I was actually signed to Tony Camacho, my first manager.

00:19:19.000 You probably know him if you've worked in New York.

00:19:21.000 Because I ended it on the N-word.

00:19:23.000 So someone now can take it out of context and say it's inappropriate to use that word pejoratively and ruin somebody's career.

00:19:30.000 I've never ever in my life tried to say this isn't allowed in comedy.

00:19:34.000 But that's not at all what I'm saying.

00:19:34.000 You just did.

00:19:36.000 It is.

00:19:37.000 I can make it very clear.

00:19:38.000 Okay.

00:19:39.000 I'm saying...

00:19:40.000 When you're doing it in the context of a set, if somebody tries to make...

00:19:44.000 And you're saying you're not using it pejoratively, then it's defensible.

00:19:48.000 But when you say that the word gay is a pejorative, that's the problematic part.

00:19:53.000 It's not...

00:19:54.000 I don't think it's problematic.

00:19:56.000 It is problematic.

00:19:58.000 I don't think when Nick DiPaolo goes up and people...

00:20:00.000 He's not using it pejoratively.

00:20:01.000 And he goes, ah, what the hell do I care, you liberal faggots?

00:20:01.000 Yes, he does.

00:20:03.000 I don't give a shit.

00:20:05.000 That's not pejoratively?

00:20:07.000 That's not defensible?

00:20:08.000 I don't think...

00:20:08.000 But he's not...

00:20:09.000 I think he's...

00:20:10.000 Why is that not...

00:20:11.000 Why is that defensible?

00:20:12.000 That's pejoratively using the word fag.

00:20:15.000 Or what about Code Joy?

00:20:16.000 I'm against him using that, but if he's gonna...

00:20:19.000 But we're talking about something very different.

00:20:20.000 No, we're not!

00:20:21.000 You said it's not appropriate to use it pejoratively.

00:20:23.000 I'm saying in comedy...

00:20:24.000 Everything is appropriate.

00:20:25.000 And you're talking to someone who always did a clean set.

00:20:28.000 I've defended Jim Norton.

00:20:30.000 I've defended on the same site people like Amy Schumer.

00:20:33.000 I've attacked her when she goes to push gun control.

00:20:35.000 And I defend her when she gets attacked by feminists and social justice warriors.

00:20:39.000 It's about consistency.

00:20:40.000 And I don't think you're being consistent or fair.

00:20:42.000 I'm saying I defend all comedians to anything they want.

00:20:46.000 But I don't defend hate speech.

00:20:47.000 And that's the line.

00:20:48.000 That's silly.

00:20:51.000 There are comedians, there are people who hide behind the banner of comedy to justify their hate speech.

00:20:57.000 And those people are wolves in sleeves clothing.

00:20:59.000 That's not the kind of, but anybody who's a real comedian, like Nick DiPaolo, who's earned his spot on that stage, I defend, if he's trying to be funny and he's getting laughs, that's between comedy and I defend everything he has to say.

00:21:12.000 We have to go to a break.

00:21:13.000 We have to go to a break.

00:21:15.000 So I don't want you to think that you're being edited.

00:21:15.000 It's going to cut you off.

00:21:17.000 Go to a break.

00:21:18.000 Lotterwithcrowder.com.

00:21:19.000 Uncensored web version as we continue where you can say whatever he wants.

00:21:23.000 Stay tuned.

00:21:24.000 Okay.

00:21:25.000 You are an uncharted...

00:21:25.000 Okay.

00:21:26.000 You can go and say whatever you want.

00:21:27.000 That's why I wanted to do this as a pre-tape so you could have more time because I thought this was going to take more than two segments we could get in a half hour.

00:21:33.000 So go ahead.

00:21:34.000 You said hate speech and you believe that comedians who use hate speech are wolves in sheep's clothing.

00:21:38.000 Continue.

00:21:39.000 There's a French comic who's basically doing Holocaust songs, and there's been a lot of news about how he's anti-Semitic, and the French government treats speech differently than the US government, and he's been kind of shut down.

00:21:55.000 I don't agree in shutting down any kind of speech, but there are certain people who, you know, he claims he's a comedian, but he's really just, you know, somebody who has a platform for his hate speech.

00:22:05.000 So what?

00:22:07.000 How does that affect you?

00:22:08.000 Just like you say, how does gay marriage affect you?

00:22:10.000 How does that affect you?

00:22:11.000 The market will speak.

00:22:12.000 If people don't like it, he won't do well.

00:22:14.000 But my point is, I don't have to defend him.

00:22:14.000 Right.

00:22:16.000 Sure you do.

00:22:18.000 I can say...

00:22:19.000 No, you absolutely, as a comedian, have to defend his right to say that, as heinous as it is, to be consistent.

00:22:24.000 You have to defend his right to say that.

00:22:27.000 Otherwise, you're inconsistent.

00:22:28.000 My point is if there's a KKK guy giving a speech, I would defend his right to give a speech, but I wouldn't defend him in the context of comedy.

00:22:37.000 If he said, oh, by the way, I'm trying to be funny.

00:22:39.000 I'm a comedian.

00:22:40.000 He doesn't get out of jail free with that.

00:22:43.000 Yeah, I think it's different when you're talking about someone actually who is a comedian, but you talked about hate speech.

00:22:48.000 Again, we've gone from comedy to hate speech, and you used the term hate speech, which is a made-up term designed by the left to censor speech and ultimately censor thought.

00:22:57.000 I mean, you talk about a place like Canada.

00:22:59.000 You talk about here in Kim Davis.

00:23:00.000 In Canada, you have pastors who are jailed for not marrying two members of the same sex.

00:23:05.000 So it's not only civil unions wasn't enough.

00:23:07.000 It wasn't states can make same-sex marriage, gay marriage enough.

00:23:11.000 That wasn't enough.

00:23:12.000 It wasn't a federal mandate was enough.

00:23:14.000 Now it's every county of every clerk has to sign off on it personally, and that won't be enough.

00:23:18.000 And in Canada, they've reached the point where every single pastor of every church has to sign off on it, just like in Denmark.

00:23:22.000 And that's not enough.

00:23:23.000 That's what I call the gay stopper.

00:23:25.000 I mean, I can only – I'm not – I'm American, so I'm only arguing about the United States, where no priest or rabbi is being forced to marry people they don't want us to marry.

00:23:33.000 Well, there is no hate speech, really, in the United States.

00:23:36.000 In Canada, free speech doesn't exist.

00:23:36.000 That's the point.

00:23:38.000 So in places like Europe, hate speech laws can be created and exist because they don't really have a First Amendment the same way we do here.

00:23:45.000 It's distinctly American.

00:23:49.000 Yeah, my expertise is not – I don't have international expertise, so I'd be going out of my – I can't really talk about free speech.

00:23:59.000 I'm trying to help.

00:23:59.000 When you use the word hate speech, right there, you've opened the door to censorship.

00:24:03.000 And it sounds to me, from what we're talking about, you're okay as long as it's with censorship with things you don't like.

00:24:11.000 My point is just that I think there are some people, and we're getting this with this Nicola Arbor situation, where people are trying to figure out whether or not they can define her as a comedian.

00:24:21.000 So I'm just speaking in terms of people who will claim that they're comedians in order to get extra protection for their not-jokes.

00:24:29.000 So you don't think she's a comedian?

00:24:32.000 I don't know enough about what she's saying.

00:24:34.000 I'm just saying this is the kind of conversation that happens.

00:24:36.000 The reason I'm trying to carve out an exception is because there are people who will say something awful and then say, oh, I was making a joke when they clearly weren't making a joke and now we're supposed to be okay with it.

00:24:47.000 You have to be okay with it.

00:24:50.000 You have to be not okay with the statement.

00:24:52.000 You can say, oh, that's abhorrent.

00:24:53.000 That's a terrible statement, but I defend the right to say it.

00:24:54.000 What I'm saying is, if you make a joke that is hateful, then don't be surprised when people think you're hateful.

00:25:00.000 You can't just say, oh, I always think you're hateful.

00:25:01.000 And you've never taken the risk to make a joke that the left social justice warriors could ever consider hateful.

00:25:05.000 Because your jokes are about Christians, your jokes are about conservatives, your jokes are about the Bibles, and you power in the face of Islam, who would throw you off a roof for a lisp.

00:25:14.000 Obviously, it was enough of a risk because there are people like you who hit a nerve and all the articles about this.

00:25:20.000 It didn't hit a nerve!

00:25:21.000 I thought the joke was fine.

00:25:24.000 I thought it was okay.

00:25:24.000 I didn't think it was hilarious.

00:25:26.000 I didn't think it was bad.

00:25:27.000 My point was the reason it was even a statement, the reason anyone even raised an eyebrow was because it's so freaking edgy for Norm MacDonald to say, I don't think that was risky.

00:25:39.000 The reason people were upset on both sides and booed was because many people, sorry, thought Norm MacDonald was telling a gay comedian who made a Bible joke that it wasn't risky.

00:25:48.000 That's why the left was in an uproar.

00:25:50.000 And I was saying, look at this, how things have flipped.

00:25:53.000 Just like when I was with Amy Schumer on Red Eye.

00:25:55.000 And she actually blocked me immediately.

00:25:57.000 Immediately.

00:25:58.000 Immediately, which very much surprised me, where my whole article was, you say whatever you want, but I used to have a bit about being a virgin.

00:26:04.000 I used to have a bit about not having sex until I was married.

00:26:06.000 My stuff was sort of clean, unclean as a Christian, and it would make people so uncomfortable, and then I'd watch someone go up and make a joke about a threesome in a truck stop, and it was fine.

00:26:13.000 And my point was, the last taboo was sort of the traditional.

00:26:17.000 We've come full circle.

00:26:19.000 It's the anti-establishment.

00:26:20.000 That was the point of the article, and that's why anyone even, it's even been talked about online.

00:26:28.000 No, and I think most of what you said is fair, and I do think that because any minority opinion that you're willing to express to a majority, I think is...

00:26:41.000 Is inherently, in that way, edgier.

00:26:44.000 I think, you know...

00:26:46.000 So you would agree, then?

00:26:47.000 You're making fun of a minority as part of...

00:26:49.000 You've become more of the majority, the sort of liberal social justice...

00:26:52.000 The atheist agnostic community is way not the majority in the United States.

00:26:57.000 In entertainment?

00:26:58.000 That's just, like, not true.

00:26:59.000 In entertainment?

00:26:59.000 You really don't think so?

00:27:00.000 In the country, period.

00:27:01.000 Do I have to pull Gallup polls and statistics?

00:27:05.000 Sure, yeah.

00:27:05.000 In entertainment, you really think that in entertainment, you really think that it's edgy to be an agnostic sort of...

00:27:12.000 In entertainment, we're not talking about in the entertainment industry.

00:27:13.000 That doesn't matter.

00:27:14.000 Well, it does matter.

00:27:15.000 Because you're in front of people in the entertainment industry.

00:27:17.000 That's why Roseanne was praising you as brave.

00:27:20.000 No, that's why Roseanne was praising you as brave.

00:27:22.000 Some guy who tosses on a dress and wants to call himself transgender at 14 and pop on into the girls' restroom is brave.

00:27:28.000 Some guy who says, hey, you still got a cock and balls, you should probably go in the guy's room, is considered hateful.

00:27:32.000 Which one's brave?

00:27:33.000 Right, and they'd be right.

00:27:34.000 It'd be hateful.

00:27:35.000 It'd be hateful now to say you got a cock and balls, you're a guy.

00:27:40.000 The person in a stall, who cares what genitalia they have?

00:27:44.000 How about most of the general population if you want to get the facts and statistics?

00:27:47.000 See, you're the one who wants to set the narrative for what's okay to joke about and what's not.

00:27:52.000 I think you missed what I said earlier.

00:27:54.000 In any Islamic country, they'd throw you off the roof for your lisp because they would assume you're gay.

00:27:59.000 Not gay, not gay.

00:28:00.000 I got that wrong.

00:28:01.000 Why don't you make jokes about that?

00:28:03.000 I'm not saying you have to, but why does it appear anywhere in your set?

00:28:07.000 Two minutes of your stand-up joking about how you won't joke about Islam.

00:28:11.000 No, there's two minutes of, I'm saying the two minute clip that we're talking about.

00:28:15.000 I think my joke about not making a joke is, and plus there's other jokes in my act that you haven't seen.

00:28:21.000 That's true.

00:28:22.000 So I do talk about it, and that's just one of the jokes.

00:28:26.000 And there's more.

00:28:28.000 I would love to hear you send me your jokes on Islam.

00:28:31.000 I would love to hear you send me your tranny jokes.

00:28:34.000 Send me your jokes about the gay community.

00:28:36.000 Send me your jokes about blacks, about Asians, about whites, about Christians, about all of them, so we can say that at least you're even-handed in your sort of enforcement of diversity and comedy.

00:28:44.000 I think there's nothing less funny than this idea that you have to footnote or appendicize your stand-up.

00:28:50.000 Just because you make fun of one thing.

00:28:51.000 That's the point.

00:28:53.000 Thank you.

00:28:54.000 No, but what you're saying is, it's not brave unless I go on and make fun of every single one of these groups.

00:29:00.000 That's not what I said.

00:29:01.000 As a matter of fact, I'm pointing out your own inconsistency, and you're not able to see it.

00:29:05.000 Where you said, that's pejoratively, that's not acceptable.

00:29:08.000 This is acceptable.

00:29:09.000 It would be hateful to make a joke about a transgender.

00:29:11.000 I didn't say that.

00:29:13.000 No, not at all.

00:29:14.000 You want to go, rewind the tape.

00:29:16.000 If someone makes fun of a cock and balls going into a men's restroom, going into a woman's restroom as a man, that's hateful.

00:29:22.000 And you said, and that would be hateful.

00:29:23.000 That's what you said.

00:29:24.000 I think there are jokes to be made, and some of my heroes in comedy have great jokes about Caitlyn Jenner, the whole situation.

00:29:30.000 There's a lot of great comics who have wonderful jokes about it.

00:29:34.000 The easier way to discuss this would be, we all think interracial marriage is fine.

00:29:41.000 We're at a point in society where I don't think most people have a problem with people of different races marrying each other.

00:29:47.000 So if a comic got up there and just started saying, isn't it ridiculous all these people who are the same, you know, different races getting married?

00:29:53.000 Isn't that the worst thing in the world?

00:29:56.000 Even, you know, that might kill in certain communities.

00:29:59.000 Are you going to go to the flat earth thing and try and act like that was a mainstream thing too?

00:30:05.000 Interracial marriage, that's why there are more people in this country who are more Native Americans than ever, because as opposed to annihilation, they were intermarrying the second they came in.

00:30:14.000 Then there was a small sect of stupid people who were against it.

00:30:18.000 There had to be a Supreme Court case to establish the right of people to marry interracially.

00:30:23.000 People were being bought for doing that.

00:30:26.000 You go to everything so safe.

00:30:28.000 Oh, the interracial marriages.

00:30:29.000 Oh, the racists.

00:30:30.000 Oh, the Texans, the Christians.

00:30:32.000 It's just like you're stepping from one safe lily pad to the other while trying to set, like Jim Norton says, cultural landmines for everyone else.

00:30:39.000 I purposely picked something safe for the point, which is that we all agree that it's right now.

00:30:45.000 But if a comedian was making jokes...

00:30:47.000 Back in the 40s or 50s that it was ridiculous when it was not popular necessarily to believe that.

00:30:54.000 That comic, regardless of edgy, brave, whatever, that comic would have been wrong because people who are against interracial marriage are racist.

00:31:01.000 I think that comic either would have been funny or not funny.

00:31:05.000 I'm saying the same thing goes now for gay rights and transgender rights.

00:31:08.000 It's easier to make...

00:31:10.000 You can make these jokes about...

00:31:12.000 No, that's my point.

00:31:14.000 Because of people like you, it's really hard for people to make jokes.

00:31:17.000 Because of you and Huffington Post and Daily Kos and Roseanne Barr, who believes in censorship of speech, comedy has become harder.

00:31:25.000 And you act like, well, I'm okay as long as it's my list of friends and this list of topics that are okay.

00:31:29.000 Otherwise, it's wrong because we have to deny biology with the transgender issue.

00:31:34.000 We have to make sure that everyone feels welcome as long as it fits into my purview.

00:31:38.000 It's just safe and cliche, and that's my point.

00:31:41.000 What I'm saying is you can joke about race, but you shouldn't be racist.

00:31:45.000 Those are different.

00:31:47.000 And it goes for all issues.

00:31:48.000 And I think that's very clear.

00:31:50.000 And that's the challenge.

00:31:51.000 That's the challenge.

00:31:52.000 You believe in his speech.

00:31:53.000 I'm not saying it's not a challenge.

00:31:55.000 I'm not saying it's something...

00:31:56.000 It shouldn't be a challenge in comedy.

00:31:57.000 Every single comedian, every single comedian should share the exact same opinion that Jim Norton, Nick DiPaolo, Bill Burr, Norm MacDonald all share.

00:32:06.000 And you don't.

00:32:07.000 They believe it's all okay or it's not okay.

00:32:08.000 You believe it's some okay, some is not okay.

00:32:10.000 And that's destroying comedy.

00:32:12.000 These are guys that we're talking about that are friends of mine who I have very frank discussions about all of these things with.

00:32:17.000 So obviously I support them.

00:32:19.000 They're on my list of friends.

00:32:20.000 I'm not talking about them.

00:32:21.000 I'm talking about the opinion that it's either all okay or none of it's okay.

00:32:25.000 Now if someone goes up, you know, like for example...

00:32:28.000 Kramer, who's not a stand-up comic.

00:32:29.000 We both know that.

00:32:30.000 That was a sad situation.

00:32:32.000 Wrong.

00:32:34.000 And it wasn't funny.

00:32:35.000 And it was wrong.

00:32:36.000 And it was called out right away because someone had a phone.

00:32:39.000 And right away, that happened.

00:32:41.000 The market spoke.

00:32:42.000 The market spoke.

00:32:42.000 Right?

00:32:44.000 And he didn't really...

00:32:45.000 I don't know if he...

00:32:46.000 Does he still do any kind of performances down in L.A.? No, not really.

00:32:50.000 Well, it's funny.

00:32:50.000 My mom was this wardrobe stylist at the Just for Laughs when I was really young.

00:32:54.000 That's how I first piqued an interest in comedy.

00:32:56.000 And he would, like, throw up before...

00:32:58.000 He was so anxious before he would go on stage.

00:33:00.000 A lot of comics, actually.

00:33:01.000 You'd be surprised.

00:33:02.000 Even experts.

00:33:04.000 Even veterans.

00:33:05.000 Explosive diarrhea.

00:33:06.000 Well, I've been doing it since 17.

00:33:07.000 I remember when I got the Just for Laughs set that got me into the festival.

00:33:11.000 It's funny.

00:33:12.000 I was so self-conscious.

00:33:13.000 I used to say, like, oh, yeah, I threw up before my set because somehow I felt like it was less embarrassing than I had explosive diarrhea in the green room.

00:33:20.000 The truth is I just painted it and went up and got into the festival.

00:33:25.000 But that never went away.

00:33:26.000 But he would actually, like, be physically sick, Kramer.

00:33:29.000 So when I saw that video, I thought, man, this is a guy who – there's a good example.

00:33:33.000 Said that stuff.

00:33:35.000 Those statements are racist.

00:33:37.000 Right.

00:33:38.000 I don't know that he's a racist.

00:33:56.000 Well, that's why I said it with this.

00:33:57.000 That means hacky, okay?

00:33:58.000 Absolutely.

00:33:59.000 Don't try and take this out of context and go, Stephen thinks that's a funny joke.

00:34:02.000 No, of course.

00:34:03.000 I think we actually agree more than we disagree.

00:34:05.000 What I'm trying to say is there are comics, and I've seen them perform, because I'm in the clubs.

00:34:10.000 I'm doing two, three shows every single night.

00:34:12.000 I see a lot of comedy.

00:34:13.000 It's not so much in New York, but maybe more when I'm on tour.

00:34:17.000 But there are comics who are genuinely racist or genuinely homophobic, and And it's very clear from their stand-up.

00:34:25.000 What does that mean, homophobic?

00:34:26.000 Does that mean you disagree with someone?

00:34:28.000 If I don't think two guys getting married is the same as a heterosexual marriage, does that make me homophobic?

00:34:32.000 No, I don't think so.

00:34:34.000 There are people who hate gay people.

00:34:36.000 Is Kim Davis homophobic?

00:34:38.000 I'm not sure.

00:34:39.000 I don't know her.

00:34:40.000 I don't know.

00:34:40.000 But when you start throwing around terms like hate speech, homophobic, and it requires no proof, right?

00:34:46.000 Everyone who voted against Barack Obama was a racist.

00:34:49.000 That's not true.

00:34:50.000 That's been the narrative from HuffPo and from all the sites.

00:34:53.000 There are very few people I've met, thankfully, in my life who are genuinely racist or generally homophobic or genuinely any of these.

00:35:00.000 I would agree with that.

00:35:02.000 I met one.

00:35:03.000 And it was actually when I was doing stand-up and I was in Virginia.

00:35:05.000 Okay.

00:35:06.000 And it was a guy – I tell you, this is a true story.

00:35:08.000 There you go.

00:35:09.000 Cracker Barrel.

00:35:10.000 And like I said, I used to end – not Cracker Barrel, sorry.

00:35:12.000 Bob Evans.

00:35:13.000 Nothing good happens at Bob Evans.

00:35:15.000 But like I said, I used to end my set with the word, come on.

00:35:20.000 Was the bit about French Canadians using English terms they didn't know when you would hear the N-word in rap videos.

00:35:25.000 So that was how I ended my set.

00:35:27.000 And that's what signed me to Tony Camacho.

00:35:29.000 So I've used it in my set.

00:35:30.000 So that's when people say, can you believe Paula Deen said the N-word?

00:35:33.000 I say it every time I sing along to Kanye's College Dropout.

00:35:36.000 It's all about context, right?

00:35:38.000 I have a joke in my act where I say, I ask the audience, I go, can I say the N-word when I'm doing karaoke?

00:35:43.000 And then they're usually silent.

00:35:44.000 And I go, I guess that's a no.

00:35:45.000 And you're probably right.

00:35:46.000 Because I did it last week a bunch of times.

00:35:48.000 People were very upset.

00:35:49.000 Granted, I was adding it to songs that didn't already have it.

00:35:53.000 You know what I mean?

00:35:54.000 My point is the first time I ever actually heard it was at a Bob Evans.

00:35:54.000 It's all about content.

00:35:57.000 And I remember the guy said, you know, like, you got these filthy...

00:36:00.000 And I was like, holy, it stopped my heart.

00:36:03.000 But the thing is, it's so rare.

00:36:05.000 That made me aware that it's so rare.

00:36:06.000 I'm not saying this happens often.

00:36:08.000 And the beauty of...

00:36:09.000 Most comics get into comedy to talk about truth, and they're around a lot of different people.

00:36:13.000 It's very rare you meet a racist or homophobic or any of these anti-things.

00:36:19.000 Once in a while, once in a blue moon, you meet that racist guy, and that guy's speech, I don't want to defend as strongly as everybody else's, in terms of he doesn't deserve as much of a platform to be racist as Jim Norton gets a platform to do his humor, which I'm not saying he's racist at all, but Jim Norton has earned his platform.

00:36:35.000 This racist guy has not.

00:36:36.000 Yeah, you know, I disagree, and let me tell you why.

00:36:39.000 Because views like yours, and people from your liberal point of view, worldview, selectively apply it.

00:36:46.000 And when I am at the front page of Huffington Post twice, twice for jokes that I didn't make, and I have to go in to the Fox News boardroom on the second floor and explain my jokes, it ruined me.

00:36:58.000 It ruined me as far as stand-up comedy, because we also had death threats, so anytime I go and do it, and I can't do a club, there has to be security, Yeah, no, it's tough.

00:37:06.000 Yeah, but you don't have that.

00:37:08.000 If you went up and you started making fun of Islam and found yourself on the care watch list as I do next to Salman Rushdie and Mark Stein, you'd feel very differently.

00:37:17.000 Because you make jokes that are just as, and I'm not at all saying you shouldn't, just as vicious towards, not as vicious, about a quarter as vicious towards Christians as I make toward Islam.

00:37:26.000 One of us has to have our house heavily armed, has to be under security watch when we do stand-up, And one of them can sprint around the stage where people might think that you're a homosexual and you're not, and you make one of the Bible.

00:37:38.000 And that's to give you an idea of the situation, and it's because of leftist ideology.

00:37:42.000 Can you understand that?

00:37:43.000 Well, I think the reason that you have all these issues has nothing to do with the left, but has to do with Islam.

00:37:53.000 And the left defends Islam.

00:37:54.000 It's Islamophobic.

00:37:56.000 If I make a joke about Muhammad raping the shit out of his six-year-old wife and then beating her, but beating her correctly, I'm labeled an Islamophobe.

00:38:05.000 It's in the Quran.

00:38:06.000 It's in Hadith.

00:38:07.000 Front page everywhere.

00:38:08.000 This comedian's an Islamophobe and they call for my firing.

00:38:11.000 Conservatives don't do that with people like you.

00:38:13.000 They write articles like I did, pointing out ironies.

00:38:15.000 But I think that's more of it.

00:38:16.000 I think you're trying to say conservatives are Christian and the Muslims are...

00:38:21.000 No, I'm not.

00:38:22.000 I'm talking about...

00:38:22.000 I'm saying this is a religious issue, right?

00:38:24.000 Christians and Jews...

00:38:25.000 No, it's not.

00:38:25.000 I'm Jewish, so I can speak from that end.

00:38:27.000 You don't...

00:38:27.000 It's not.

00:38:28.000 You know, my friend Modi has a joke where he goes, you don't see Jews blowing up buildings, they buy the building, burn it down and collect the insurance.

00:38:34.000 You know, there's jokes like that.

00:38:35.000 But the point is, Jews don't...

00:38:36.000 You don't see Jews and Christians getting upset over it.

00:38:38.000 Now, if I made it, they'd say I'm an anti-Semite front page HuffPo if I made that joke.

00:38:42.000 I don't know if that's true.

00:38:44.000 It's absolutely true.

00:38:45.000 It's happened several times.

00:38:47.000 There's a great Onion article where they talk about this.

00:38:52.000 We could talk about what religions it's safer to make fun of.

00:38:55.000 I'm not talking about religion.

00:38:56.000 I stand arm in arm.

00:39:01.000 Listen, I sat down and I spoke with Jim there at the Comedy Cell.

00:39:09.000 I remember we were talking about the separation of church and state, and he believed that the churches should lose their tax-exempt status, and I explained to him why I disagreed, and we had a long, drawn-out conversation.

00:39:16.000 This is a guy who talked about performing oral sex as six-year-olds under the balcony in Monster Rain.

00:39:21.000 We wouldn't find a lot of common ground in our material, but we would stand hand in hand on the idea of free speech.

00:39:27.000 Him and I would have much more in common than you and I would on this issue.

00:39:32.000 That's my point, because he says it's all okay or none of it's okay.

00:39:35.000 You're still selective.

00:39:37.000 I would agree with you on that.

00:39:39.000 I'm just saying there's two ways of defending comics, and this is all I'm trying to carve out.

00:39:45.000 Okay.

00:39:46.000 There's that he's just doing a joke as a defense.

00:39:50.000 And I think that's a valid defense in a lot of contexts because people are like, you don't get the joke.

00:39:54.000 He's making a joke.

00:39:55.000 He's not trying to be insulting.

00:39:56.000 He's doing his job.

00:39:58.000 And then there's just the free speech in general, which is, you know, it's all speech or no speech.

00:40:04.000 It's the people that try to sneak in under the first and not the second that I have a problem with.

00:40:10.000 Right.

00:40:10.000 And that's my point.

00:40:11.000 When you have a guy, did you read that article to Jerry Seinfeld from HuffPo?

00:40:14.000 Yeah.

00:40:15.000 Okay.

00:40:15.000 Did you think it was the most stupid, horrendous, social justice warrior piece of shit you've ever read in your life?

00:40:20.000 Oh, the thing...

00:40:21.000 When Chris Rock came out with this way before Seinfeld did, he had a similar...

00:40:27.000 No, no, the guy at HuffPo who wrote...

00:40:29.000 Who wrote to...

00:40:29.000 Oh, I 100% agree with you that it was...

00:40:32.000 Yeah, Jerry...

00:40:33.000 I totally stand by what Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock said.

00:40:37.000 Right.

00:40:37.000 I performed at these colleges.

00:40:39.000 I can tell you a crazy...

00:40:40.000 I was at Assumption College...

00:40:43.000 Which is a religious school, but it's neither here nor there.

00:40:45.000 We're just talking about colleges in general.

00:40:46.000 But Assumption College, I was performing there, and the student organizer, the adult, basically, the non-student.

00:40:54.000 The ones you have to sit around with because they don't have a green room sometimes.

00:40:57.000 The one who has to sign the check, right?

00:40:57.000 So she says, all right, you're going to go on stage, and if I find anything you say inappropriate, I'm going to take a step towards the stage.

00:41:03.000 And if I get to the stage, I pull the microphone and I rip your check.

00:41:08.000 It was basically censorship, you know, red light, green light.

00:41:11.000 Let me guess, it never happened with you.

00:41:14.000 Let me guess, you didn't rip up your check.

00:41:14.000 Sorry?

00:41:16.000 What happened was, when I had five minutes left, I decided to get her as close to the stage before she pulled the mic.

00:41:21.000 Okay.

00:41:22.000 Within the first four minutes, my check would have been ripped up.

00:41:26.000 And I can tell you why, because I was banned from several colleges, as well as comedy clubs.

00:41:31.000 But I would argue, again, like we're arguing about a college has the right to choose sort of who they do and don't book.

00:41:38.000 When they paid me, they gave me a contract that said I had to follow these certain rules.

00:41:43.000 And if I didn't want to follow those rules, I didn't have to take the gig.

00:41:46.000 But my point is college, generally speaking, leans very far to the left.

00:41:51.000 Where do you find censorship of free speech?

00:41:54.000 Never from Reason Magazine.

00:41:55.000 Never from even, you know, even when I was talking with Matt Stone of South Park.

00:42:00.000 And he did this RTF thing and my brother was at UT.

00:42:00.000 We were in Austin.

00:42:04.000 And we have this friend, Zach Anner, who you've probably seen.

00:42:06.000 He had his own show on the Oprah Network.

00:42:07.000 And he's very funny.

00:42:08.000 Yeah, I love that guy.

00:42:09.000 Yeah, he's hilarious.

00:42:09.000 Now, I don't know if you'd call him a, he's certainly not a stand-up comic, but one of the funniest people I've ever met.

00:42:13.000 Well, I can't stand up.

00:42:15.000 but I'll be with you.

00:42:16.000 Well, he hates cerebral palsy comedians who bank on cerebral palsy.

00:42:19.000 He hates it.

00:42:20.000 He's like, okay, so you're in a wheelchair.

00:42:22.000 What else you got?

00:42:23.000 He gets really upset about it.

00:42:24.000 No, he's super hilarious.

00:42:25.000 Yeah, but he's not a stand-up.

00:42:27.000 So we were there.

00:42:28.000 So the thing is, you know, Matt Stone comes in and talks to everyone.

00:42:29.000 And listen, we use him.

00:42:31.000 Those are legitimately brave guys, by the way.

00:42:33.000 Yes, they are.

00:42:34.000 And, of course, they've been accused of hate speech by people like you for making fun of transgender people.

00:42:39.000 Your leftist colleagues.

00:42:40.000 Same like me, but I've never accused them.

00:42:42.000 My point is...

00:42:43.000 Okay, well, let me give you an example, just real quick, because he, remember, he was up there.

00:42:46.000 Because we're not talking about religion.

00:42:47.000 You would acknowledge college is very liberal.

00:42:49.000 That happens in liberal areas.

00:42:50.000 Most colleges, but there's a lot of private schools that are as far...

00:42:53.000 The majority of schools, I think, lean left.

00:42:55.000 Not even Pepperdine or, what's it in Schaumburg, Wheaton.

00:42:59.000 My wife went to Calvin.

00:43:02.000 In Grand Rapids, a Christian college, and very, very far to the left.

00:43:06.000 So very, very few.

00:43:07.000 I think maybe Liberty University and Hillsdale are the only slightly right ones.

00:43:10.000 That's fair.

00:43:13.000 Oh, Zach Ganner.

00:43:14.000 So Matt Stone was there.

00:43:15.000 I remember all these stupid hippies, leftist hippies, who I hate because you can't stand in Austin.

00:43:20.000 They show up at Cap City and then boo you for making a joke about Hillary Clinton.

00:43:24.000 Now what happened was he was talking about South Park.

00:43:28.000 And was talking about the episodes doing Muhammad.

00:43:31.000 And he said, you know, Comedy Central said they wouldn't air the episode, or we did Muhammad.

00:43:35.000 And we said, well, that's fine, but we're going to make it a three-parter.

00:43:38.000 So it's going to be three episodes of the ten that you pay for this season.

00:43:41.000 You can do whatever you want.

00:43:42.000 So then all these people were talking about it, and they were going, well, how do you compare?

00:43:46.000 Someone asked something along the lines of, you know, how do you compare the outrage from Islam versus the Christians when you did Jesus when you started out?

00:43:52.000 And they were really outraged, and they wanted to boycott you.

00:43:54.000 And Matt Stone said, they never boycotted us.

00:43:57.000 So no, Christians never did that.

00:43:59.000 He says, as a matter of fact, they were actually very nice.

00:44:00.000 They just wanted us at a later slot.

00:44:02.000 And we actually used that because we wanted to be at a later slot with more leeway.

00:44:06.000 This is South Park talking.

00:44:07.000 So I'm not even talking about Christians or religion.

00:44:10.000 I'm talking about anti-authoritarians versus the social justice warrior left.

00:44:13.000 But even then, Christians are much less quick to boycott, certainly to make threats compared to Islam.

00:44:23.000 Right.

00:44:24.000 Or anyone else.

00:44:25.000 I mean, that's the point I'm making.

00:44:27.000 Jews are pretty good, too, about it.

00:44:28.000 I mean, we get upset, but you don't see them.

00:44:32.000 It usually doesn't come to violence.

00:44:34.000 Jews have been insulted for thousands of years.

00:44:36.000 They generally are running away from the violence.

00:44:39.000 They just take your job.

00:44:40.000 Yeah, they just buy your company and take your job if they get pissed at you.

00:44:43.000 That's what they do.

00:44:43.000 Because they got all the money, kid!

00:44:45.000 Haven't you heard?

00:44:46.000 There you go.

00:44:46.000 The Jews run Hollywood!

00:44:49.000 I wrote an article on that once, and someone accused me of being anti-Semitic, and it was called, Do the Jews Run Hollywood?

00:44:54.000 And I talked about the Weinstein brothers.

00:44:56.000 And I don't know, you might be trying to get a deal, so this might piss them off.

00:44:57.000 And I said, like, the Weinstein brothers, if you want to go, like, how they act Jewish, and I listed the heinous things that people say they've done, I go, that has nothing to do with Judaism.

00:45:05.000 It has everything to do with being a heinous human being.

00:45:08.000 So Jews don't so much run Hollywood, if you're talking about people like the Weinstein brothers, as assholes run Hollywood.

00:45:14.000 So don't tar and feather the whole good Jew.

00:45:16.000 And someone said, I can't believe how anti-Semitic that was.

00:45:19.000 And it was front page of all the leftist sites and they got mad.

00:45:22.000 I totally get that.

00:45:25.000 The social justice theory of using these words as a way of ending the conversation and saying, oh, that's anti-Semitic, and then just leaving it at that.

00:45:35.000 Right.

00:45:36.000 Meaning, it's anti-Semitic.

00:45:37.000 That's bad.

00:45:38.000 It's bad.

00:45:39.000 It should be removed.

00:45:40.000 And I get that that's not...

00:45:42.000 I disagree with that tactic.

00:45:43.000 But you just said that earlier.

00:45:45.000 Well, my point, though, is to say, once in a while there is something that is genuinely anti-Semitic.

00:45:50.000 So we do want to protect the ability, and this is also speech, of somebody writing in and be like, holy shit, that was actually really anti-Semitic.

00:46:00.000 Why did you publish something so grossly anti-Semitic?

00:46:03.000 Does that happen often?

00:46:04.000 Probably not.

00:46:05.000 But I'm saying this goes for any kind of thing.

00:46:07.000 But the point is that you're right about everything you just said.

00:46:10.000 But you said, does it happen often?

00:46:10.000 Probably not.

00:46:11.000 Okay, we agree.

00:46:12.000 Now, if you were to read the front page, HuffPo, Salon, Daily Kos, any of those sites, Media Matters, or CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, or any sitcom, you would think that racism, anti-Semitism, and homophobia is around every corner.

00:46:12.000 Right.

00:46:26.000 And a perfect example is they use the same basic arguments that you use with Kim Davis.

00:46:30.000 She had a ton of divorces.

00:46:31.000 Yeah, listen, I talked about Kim Davis and caught a lot of flack for the right on Kim Davis.

00:46:35.000 I said, listen, whether you like it or not, it's the law of the land.

00:46:38.000 Well, that's the most important argument, right, is that she took a job and her job is to...

00:46:41.000 Yeah, but the other problem is, first off, the Supreme Court doesn't make laws.

00:46:47.000 And secondly, even if they had the ability to, the laws changed when she had signed on.

00:46:52.000 So it'd be like you signing on to a contract and someone changing the rules.

00:46:55.000 So in that case, she has every right to say, listen, you changed the rules on me.

00:46:58.000 I don't want to be a part of this.

00:46:59.000 Now, it's a problem when she says no other clerk can sign off on it in her district because her name's there.

00:47:03.000 But I absolutely believe that Kim Davis should be able to say, hey, and let's be honest here, okay?

00:47:08.000 The gay guys who go in there and want to get this...

00:47:11.000 Like, you can be gay, just don't be such a pussy.

00:47:13.000 Oh, I want her to...

00:47:15.000 Well, you can get someone else to sign it.

00:47:16.000 Oh, I want her name!

00:47:18.000 Like, you can go anywhere else and get your stupid certificate signed, and then they're holding each other weeping because somebody else...

00:47:18.000 I want...

00:47:25.000 Like, listen, it's the law.

00:47:26.000 You can get married.

00:47:28.000 She didn't want to.

00:47:29.000 Get it signed from somebody else with the weeping.

00:47:32.000 We've become such a nation of absolute pansies.

00:47:32.000 It's just...

00:47:35.000 But I think you can sympathize with them.

00:47:36.000 They wanted to make a story out of it.

00:47:38.000 Can't you sympathize with them a little bit?

00:47:40.000 No, no, not at that case.

00:47:42.000 At that case, I would go...

00:47:43.000 Because I have too many good gay friends.

00:47:43.000 You know why?

00:47:45.000 The reason I think we should sympathize with them is because these are people who have fought for their rights for a really long time to get married.

00:47:51.000 They would like to get married where they live.

00:47:54.000 And a person who is legally obligated to sign off on that...

00:47:58.000 That marriage certificate is refusing to do it despite the fact that they lost.

00:48:03.000 And she's not letting anybody else do it either.

00:48:05.000 Or you could go to a different district.

00:48:06.000 Yeah, but they want to get married in their district, and it's their right to.

00:48:09.000 It's ridiculous.

00:48:10.000 It's their right?

00:48:11.000 Okay, it's their right, but my whole thing is, is it their right?

00:48:13.000 You could have gone to a different pizzeria to cater your wedding.

00:48:16.000 I want that one!

00:48:18.000 You could have gone to a different bakery.

00:48:20.000 I want that one!

00:48:21.000 The gay mafia have become bullies right now, and it's creating way more...

00:48:26.000 I think we have to...

00:48:27.000 No, no, hold on a second.

00:48:28.000 This is very important.

00:48:29.000 It's creating a much more hostile environment for gay people than is necessary.

00:48:33.000 That's the issue with that, when you're forcing private businesses.

00:48:36.000 My point is, I think this is what happens with a lot of these arguments, is if you take anything to its extreme, it starts to become ridiculous.

00:48:44.000 Any religion, when it's taken to its extreme, starts to get really ridiculous.

00:48:49.000 The point is, social justice warriors...

00:48:52.000 I don't agree.

00:48:53.000 I think social justice warriors, when you take them to their extreme, and some of them do go to the extreme, it's ridiculous.

00:49:01.000 But I think the other side of it, which is when people...

00:49:03.000 I think hiding behind social justice on an extreme side is bad.

00:49:09.000 But I think hiding behind religion when...

00:49:12.000 Not all of these people, but there are some people who are just...

00:49:16.000 Being gated and don't like gay people and are hiding behind their religion.

00:49:20.000 No one is hiding behind religion.

00:49:21.000 That's the point.

00:49:22.000 Here's a perfect example.

00:49:23.000 You decided to set a narrative before we had that conversation that didn't exist in order to accuse someone of doing something they weren't doing.

00:49:31.000 You said it was religion.

00:49:33.000 No.

00:49:33.000 Most people who have a problem with the Supreme Court decision has nothing to do with religion.

00:49:39.000 A huge portion of those people...

00:49:40.000 You said the word most, which indicates numbers.

00:49:43.000 Where are you getting those numbers?

00:49:44.000 Okay, let's say a huge portion of people.

00:49:46.000 I would disagree with you.

00:49:47.000 Okay, let's say it's not necessary.

00:49:50.000 Let's go as far as it's not.

00:49:51.000 I'll play the entire semantics game so that I can boil down this point.

00:49:55.000 So hopefully you'll allow me to.

00:49:56.000 Let's say it's entirely unnecessary.

00:49:59.000 And even people like Ted Cruz, and I just called out Joe Rogan on this, where he posted a quote from Ted Cruz that was completely inaccurate.

00:50:05.000 And he actually walked it back and said, you know what, you're right, we were just kind of joking about it, but you're right.

00:50:08.000 And it was Ted Cruz saying, there's no place for gays or atheists in my America because of the Constitution.

00:50:13.000 That's a pretty damning quote.

00:50:14.000 He never said it.

00:50:15.000 It's entirely fabricated.

00:50:17.000 It's not necessary to make a religious argument to say that the courts should not be forcing states to recognize a new definition of marriage.

00:50:25.000 Now, ideally, they wouldn't be involved in the marriage running business to begin with.

00:50:28.000 I would agree with you there.

00:50:29.000 Marriage is not a right.

00:50:31.000 We both agree that...

00:50:32.000 Well, I would just say it doesn't have to...

00:50:34.000 We could have civil...

00:50:35.000 Everybody could do...

00:50:37.000 The way to give gays equality was to either give them the same rights that straight people have now or get rid of it for everybody and just say, you know what?

00:50:46.000 We could have this partnership thing so that we can deal with taxes and all sorts of the paperwork-y stuff.

00:50:51.000 And insurance.

00:50:51.000 Which they had.

00:50:53.000 We won't call it marriage, and it'll just be this partnership thing.

00:50:56.000 And if you want to get married, or whatever, go to your church or your rabbi, and that's not our deal.

00:51:02.000 And that would have been equality as well.

00:51:04.000 Which they had.

00:51:06.000 They had that, but it wasn't enough.

00:51:08.000 Well, no, but my point is, this is the government going out of all marriages.

00:51:14.000 They were doing straight marriage.

00:51:16.000 No, you were talking about them having, they had civil unions, and it wasn't enough.

00:51:19.000 Here's the point.

00:51:20.000 It was going to 32 states.

00:51:21.000 No, that's not what I'm saying.

00:51:22.000 Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

00:51:22.000 What I'm saying is...

00:51:24.000 That the government shouldn't be involved in marriage.

00:51:25.000 It should only recognize civil unions.

00:51:27.000 Period.

00:51:27.000 For straight people either.

00:51:28.000 If they're going to be involved with straight people, then they need to be involved with gay people too.

00:51:31.000 No, they don't.

00:51:32.000 That's my argument.

00:51:32.000 No, they don't.

00:51:33.000 I know we're disagreeing, but I'm saying that's my argument.

00:51:33.000 And here's why they don't.

00:51:35.000 I don't want it to be mischaracterized.

00:51:36.000 Right.

00:51:37.000 Yes.

00:51:38.000 Okay, so let's go.

00:51:39.000 And I understand where you're coming from, and I don't think it's an indefensible position, right?

00:51:43.000 And here's my problem with comedy nowadays is this sort of pseudo-liberal intellectualism where they've claimed it.

00:51:48.000 Not you, but like Norm MacDonald said, the whole pseudo-intellectual liberal atheist is so hack now it's unreal.

00:51:54.000 You go into a comedy club.

00:51:55.000 It's a bunch of hipsters with handlebar mustaches who are spewing this bullshit, who have no idea as to what the First Amendment even says, let alone the Second Amendment, have no concept of constitutional law or states' rights.

00:52:07.000 And they go up and act like everyone doesn't agree with them because they say, yeah, we love gays, or somehow yahoos who don't understand it.

00:52:13.000 You won't find more simple people today than in the stand-up world.

00:52:17.000 And it wasn't always that way.

00:52:18.000 I mean, I would disagree.

00:52:19.000 I think – I think it's very hack.

00:52:21.000 I think we're in an area that I'm a huge expert in, which is comedy, so that's great.

00:52:27.000 Um, but, uh, I've been doing it for 11 years, too.

00:52:31.000 There you go.

00:52:31.000 But I think there are two main scenes.

00:52:34.000 There's sort of the mainstream club scene in comedy.

00:52:37.000 There's an alt scene.

00:52:38.000 And something that Bill Burr has talked about and I've agreed with is that there is sort of a conflation of the alt scene and the hipster scene.

00:52:47.000 I think what you're describing is the hipster scene, handlebar mustaches, everybody kind of talking about the same ideas.

00:52:52.000 And I think most of the comedians who are at the forefront are not hipster comedians.

00:52:58.000 And all niche comedy gets lazy because they're performing for crowds that like what they're liking.

00:53:04.000 Um, when, when a liberal comic performs for a liberal audience, obviously he's going to get applause breaks by towing the party.

00:53:09.000 And that's my whole point.

00:53:10.000 Your entire niche is all of Hollywood with the jokes you do.

00:53:13.000 But I would, I mean, as somebody who tours the country and performs all around the world too, and has been attacked on stage multiple times for what I've said, I, I, I don't think it's as safe as you think it is.

00:53:27.000 I've literally been attacked multiple times for saying what I said.

00:53:30.000 It's one of those things where you can say it, but you can't prove it unless you have the video footage, and we would be glad to run it.

00:53:35.000 I would love to see the video footage of you getting attacked on stage.

00:53:35.000 I do have the video footage.

00:53:37.000 Wait, hold on a second.

00:53:37.000 I can send you the audio from my phone.

00:53:38.000 I don't want to see you getting hurt.

00:53:40.000 Let me make sure, because someone's going to hear you.

00:53:42.000 I know what you were saying.

00:53:43.000 Yes.

00:53:43.000 I would love to see that footage.

00:53:44.000 You go to the CARE website, and you can find me on their list.

00:53:47.000 I can't travel to Europe.

00:53:49.000 No, I literally, I have multiple audio on my phone.

00:53:53.000 I'm happy to flirt to you, although it's boring audio, but you hear the beer bottle hit the wall of me going, what the hell?

00:53:58.000 You know, so it's...

00:54:01.000 I would agree it's easier to do that kind of comedy where you're pro-gay or you're anti-religion, whatever it is.

00:54:08.000 Obviously, it's easier to a liberal audience.

00:54:11.000 But when I perform in New York or when I perform...

00:54:13.000 New York is as liberal as it gets.

00:54:15.000 Last time I performed in a Comedy Cellar and bombed, by the way.

00:54:18.000 Hold on.

00:54:18.000 I just wanted to finish my thought, which was...

00:54:20.000 A lot of the rooms I perform in, I perform in comedy clubs.

00:54:20.000 Go.

00:54:23.000 Those are tourists who are from all around the world and they're from all different walks of life.

00:54:28.000 So these are not...

00:54:29.000 I've done rooms that are mostly New Yorkers and it probably Ben's more liberal.

00:54:34.000 But these comedy clubs where it's tourists that are coming out of Times Square, that is a huge cross-section.

00:54:39.000 And I would say when I say, hey, who here is from New York?

00:54:42.000 One hand goes up.

00:54:43.000 Two hands go up.

00:54:44.000 So these are not...

00:54:45.000 No, but even...

00:54:46.000 Let me change that a little bit.

00:54:48.000 Firstly, people who go to comedy clubs, because they tend to be so profane, tend to be less conservative.

00:54:54.000 Secondly, you're in a big city like New York.

00:54:56.000 Most tourists, if they're coming in from Europe, tend to be more liberal.

00:54:59.000 And thirdly, even the people who are conservative.

00:55:02.000 I've had people come up after I bombed.

00:55:04.000 And actually, a comedy seller bombed miserably.

00:55:06.000 And the reason was I made a joke about Barack Obama and there was...

00:55:09.000 Well, I don't know if it's the reason.

00:55:10.000 It could have just been a crappy set.

00:55:11.000 But there was a That's another thing, by the way, is that there are comedians who hide behind their bad jokes and say, they didn't laugh because they don't agree with my point of view.

00:55:20.000 Sometimes a shitty...

00:55:21.000 Nick Apollo is a perfect example of somebody who is pretty conservative in his viewpoint and murders the seller every night.

00:55:29.000 Murders New York.

00:55:31.000 And it's because funny is funny.

00:55:33.000 At the end of the day...

00:55:34.000 No, no, let me tell you why it's not.

00:55:35.000 It's because of things that you've said earlier.

00:55:37.000 Because I've had some people come up and I hear them go, oh!

00:55:41.000 Man, I thought that shit you said about Muslims was so funny, but I didn't want to laugh.

00:55:46.000 Same thing happened, I remember, at Comedy Cellar.

00:55:47.000 I made a joke about Barack Obama.

00:55:50.000 Like, what was the joke?

00:55:51.000 Let's hear it.

00:55:52.000 There was a table with these black women at the front, and one actually said, and I actually find it funnier now, looking back, where this was like the first 20 seconds of that pitch.

00:56:01.000 She goes, That shit's racist!

00:56:04.000 And I was like, oh gosh.

00:56:05.000 And then no one wanted to laugh and I kind of got them back.

00:56:08.000 But it was just a quick, it was a throwaway tag onto a bit about Barack Obama.

00:56:12.000 What was the tag?

00:56:13.000 This is where I said, you know, labeling him.

00:56:16.000 The tag was rated most beautiful person in the world at this point.

00:56:19.000 People rated him.

00:56:20.000 And I said, that's just a perfect example of the love, I don't remember the exact joke, the admiration from the press, where you give that label to someone like Hugh Jackman, and it was a callback to earlier talking about how I'm not gay, but I do Hugh Jackman, providing context.

00:56:32.000 I said, you give it to Hugh Jackman, not the guy who looks like the photo negative of Alfred E. Newman.

00:56:36.000 Oh, that's funny.

00:56:37.000 That shit's racist!

00:56:40.000 And so no one laughs.

00:56:41.000 It's not even my best joke.

00:56:42.000 It's a tag to move on to the media, and then I move on to Detroit, and I have all these hipsters who are going to...

00:56:49.000 So it moves on to Detroit and liberals.

00:56:50.000 And this bit is always killed, whether it's a comedy club, whether it's a college, or whether it's a conservative audience, about people going to Detroit who are going to save it through art.

00:56:59.000 I realize, is that a fact?

00:57:01.000 Skyler.

00:57:02.000 And I go into the idea of...

00:57:03.000 I mean, this is just a pure comedy opinion.

00:57:06.000 But I do think anytime you push a point of view hard like that, where you say liberals as a broad stroke, or I think audiences, regardless of opinion, I've seen very liberal comics.

00:57:17.000 But you can do it with Christians like you did.

00:57:19.000 That's my point.

00:57:20.000 You do it all the time.

00:57:22.000 Listen, man, let's just be honest about it.

00:57:23.000 You do it all the time when you're set, and Bill Maher does it all the time, and Jon Stewart does it all the time, but if someone does it on the other side, it's a problem.

00:57:29.000 DiPaolo has to disguise his views.

00:57:31.000 Oh, no, I'm not saying it's a problem.

00:57:33.000 That's why I use DiPaolo.

00:57:35.000 DiPaolo gets his point of view across, and he does it in a really funny way, and the audience loves him.

00:57:40.000 The audience loves him.

00:57:41.000 He's not disguising anything.

00:57:42.000 Yeah, he does.

00:57:43.000 Yeah, he does.

00:57:44.000 Apollo?

00:57:44.000 Yeah.

00:57:45.000 Even if you hear his radio show and you have him on, or Dennis Miller, they talk about it.

00:57:48.000 They're like, I can't believe getting started in a club this day.

00:57:51.000 This is my genuine problem.

00:57:52.000 A real fear.

00:57:53.000 No, it is hard.

00:57:53.000 I agree.

00:57:54.000 I have a lot of friends, you know, when you talk about you shouldn't make rape jokes.

00:57:59.000 You know, I have a lot of friends who had to deal with, you know, with bloggers and these, you know, what you're calling social justice warriors.

00:58:06.000 Coming out and saying you can't say those jokes, it really comes down to, well, first of all, when we're talking about comedy specifically, I can't practice my jokes alone in my room.

00:58:16.000 Every other art form, if I was a guitar player, I could play my guitar in my room and get better.

00:58:20.000 I can't practice without an audience.

00:58:22.000 So there are going to be comedians who say things that even they themselves are horrified by.

00:58:29.000 Because they're working things out.

00:58:29.000 I agree.

00:58:31.000 I had one that I said that I was like, oh, okay, that was too far.

00:58:33.000 Oh yeah, there are jokes where like, oh shit, I went too far.

00:58:36.000 And that's why we have to give comedians special protection because they're just experimenting.

00:58:41.000 But that's my point.

00:58:43.000 But my point is, and I think maybe I didn't say it clearly enough, and that's on me, but I think comedians get the special protection because they're giving rough drafts to the audience in a way that no other artist has to do that.

00:58:55.000 And to judge somebody for a rough draft is kind of inappropriate.

00:58:59.000 I think if people start to abuse, if I start to carve this special You know, special protection for these comedians and say, hey, they're doing rough drafts.

00:59:08.000 You got to give them some leeway.

00:59:10.000 You don't want other people coming in and be like, oh, I'm a comedian too, and this was just a rough draft.

00:59:13.000 You're like, yours wasn't a rough draft.

00:59:15.000 You're just trying to protect yourself.

00:59:17.000 But that's an exception probably more than the rule.

00:59:21.000 I just think that...

00:59:22.000 My point is, and I don't believe in any of the rough drafts, and that's a point, you know, and I actually have a bit about moving into Detroit where I talk about how they're going to save, you know, Detroit and these hipsters moving in.

00:59:32.000 What do you mean by you don't believe in a rough draft?

00:59:33.000 You don't think that's the best?

00:59:34.000 No, I don't believe...

00:59:35.000 No, my point is I don't believe that...

00:59:38.000 People going out there do rough drafts and say, well, actually, that was racist.

00:59:42.000 I believe either it's all okay or it's not okay.

00:59:44.000 A good example is I've made rape jokes.

00:59:46.000 I have a joke about the tag is I have a whole bit about Detroit and actually ended up doing a video that got three million plays.

00:59:53.000 It became sort of more of a journalist video based on a stand-up set from Detroit.

00:59:56.000 But the bit is all these hipsters move in and all of a sudden there's an epidemic of hipster Rape.

01:00:02.000 Surprise!

01:00:02.000 Who'd have seen that one coming, Skylar?

01:00:04.000 It's laughing at a hipster getting raped.

01:00:06.000 I think it's pretty funny.

01:00:07.000 And it gets a pretty good laugh because everyone hates Skylar the hipster at this point.

01:00:10.000 Now, I made a joke that was not a rape joke about Ashley Judd at a big conference.

01:00:17.000 Of course, because it's conservative, people go, oh, this is a rape joke.

01:00:19.000 And this is just a tag adding in before I was introducing...

01:00:23.000 I don't even know if it was Peggy Noonan or Sarah Palin.

01:00:25.000 I was going on and kind of just doing some stand-up between sets.

01:00:25.000 I don't know.

01:00:28.000 Of course, if a liberal does it, it's totally fine.

01:00:30.000 If a conservative does it, it's a problem.

01:00:31.000 And the bit was Ashley Judd had just actually – it was in the news.

01:00:34.000 She said that buying Apple products was akin to rape.

01:00:37.000 I don't know if you remember that because they're raping the earth of its resources.

01:00:40.000 And this isn't even a very funny joke.

01:00:42.000 It was just a tag before introducing someone else who was talking about conservatism and new media.

01:00:47.000 So that was a tie-in.

01:00:48.000 When you're emceeing, these aren't jokes you put in your specials.

01:00:51.000 Right, I agree with you there.

01:00:52.000 Yeah, you know what I mean?

01:00:53.000 You're kind of like, okay, I have to write this out for this.

01:00:56.000 So what was the joke then?

01:00:57.000 Ashley Judd just again tweeted out that purchasing Apple products is akin to rape from her iPhone.

01:01:03.000 So it was that, and I moved on.

01:01:06.000 Kind of laugh, okay, chuckle.

01:01:07.000 And then the tag was, well, really, it's rape just because you don't like something.

01:01:12.000 Then she knows how my wallet felt after Divine Secrets of the Yaya Sisterhood.

01:01:15.000 Like, oh, you raped me again, Ashley Judd.

01:01:17.000 And they were going, Stephen made a joke about raping Ashley Judd.

01:01:21.000 Front page Huffington Post.

01:01:23.000 No, I would stand by you on that one in the sense that clearly that was not what you were...

01:01:28.000 I don't support anybody taking people out of context.

01:01:30.000 Yeah, but the point is this only happens in leftist enclaves.

01:01:34.000 In social justice warrior enclaves.

01:01:36.000 I don't know if that's necessarily true.

01:01:38.000 I do think comedians tend to be liberal and progressive, but I think that speaks to more of what their values are, right?

01:01:47.000 Yeah, and I think it's a parasite eating the host, because progressivism is destroying and will ultimately destroy comedy.

01:01:56.000 I mean, I would just say that I think the idea is conservatives tend to...

01:02:02.000 We keep talking broad generalizations.

01:02:05.000 But I think conservatives tend to be more traditional in terms of traditional values and liberals tend to be more pushing it forward.

01:02:13.000 And comedians tend to be in that camp.

01:02:16.000 It's the opposite.

01:02:18.000 I would say the opposite.

01:02:19.000 The counterculture has become the anti-authoritarian right.

01:02:23.000 The traditionalist, the person who says it's all okay...

01:02:26.000 The grandfather making the racially charged joke on the porch.

01:02:29.000 That guy's fine for hate speech, to use your term, which I don't believe in.

01:02:33.000 And comedians have tried to paint themselves into a safe enclave.

01:02:36.000 And you have a lot of comedians now from the older school who've complained about it.

01:02:39.000 People like Jerry Seinfeld or Chris Rock or Nick DiPaolo.

01:02:43.000 No, I stand with them, and I do agree that there is a fear that you...

01:02:47.000 I think when we talk about the rough draft, one of the biggest fears is you want to talk about these rough topics, right?

01:02:53.000 You want to do a joke about things that people are talking about and feel passionate about.

01:02:58.000 And the reason I say rough draft sometimes is...

01:03:01.000 In trying to figure out the best way to say something, sometimes you have to say it.

01:03:05.000 When you're writing an essay, oh, that paragraph didn't come out right.

01:03:08.000 You rewrite it.

01:03:09.000 It didn't come out right.

01:03:10.000 And you keep rewriting it.

01:03:12.000 I have a joke about how I don't have rape jokes.

01:03:15.000 It's a bit that took me a long time to write.

01:03:17.000 And the early drafts of that are jokes that I wouldn't stand behind.

01:03:22.000 They're jokes where you're like, oh, that was not the way I meant to say it.

01:03:24.000 And that's what the process is, is figuring out how to say what you actually mean to say.

01:03:28.000 But no one gets that process anymore.

01:03:29.000 That's my point.

01:03:30.000 Because of progressivism, No one gets that process anymore.

01:03:33.000 Some kid getting up who wants to do stand-up.

01:03:35.000 That's not true.

01:03:36.000 No, it's absolutely true.

01:03:37.000 I've talked to young comedians who are going, oh my god, you can't believe it.

01:03:40.000 They're terrified to get up at an open mic night.

01:03:42.000 I'm saying they've got to stack up.

01:03:44.000 No, but that's the point.

01:03:46.000 We're in such a politically correct, charged atmosphere now.

01:03:49.000 And everyone has a smartphone.

01:03:51.000 And because people like you actually believe in the myth that is hate speech or hate speech laws, you have some kid who's afraid to push them.

01:03:59.000 You know what pushing the boundaries is right now?

01:04:00.000 Pushing the boundaries is going up and using the word tranny and making a joke about how absurd the transgender movement has become and how nobody should give a shit and how it's ridiculous.

01:04:09.000 That's what's unsafe.

01:04:10.000 Someone has a smartphone and they report that to that kid's college dean of admissions and he's no longer in a college.

01:04:16.000 That's what stand-ups become.

01:04:17.000 People are so afraid.

01:04:18.000 And it doesn't come from the right.

01:04:19.000 It only comes from the left trying to censor speech.

01:04:23.000 It's the same thing if you look at Andrew Breitbart, right?

01:04:25.000 When Andrew Breitbart, when everyone said, the left said, oh, they called Congressman, you know, Clyburn, they called them the N-word as they went up to the Capitol steps.

01:04:31.000 All the left had to do was say that happened.

01:04:34.000 You probably still believe it maybe even happened.

01:04:36.000 It never happened.

01:04:37.000 Andrew Breitbart offered $100,000 to the United Negro College Fund.

01:04:41.000 It's okay I can say Negro because it's still the name of the college fund.

01:04:44.000 They didn't change to the new politically correct term du jour.

01:04:46.000 I think it's people of color.

01:04:47.000 And he said, if anyone can find any footage of them calling these congressmen the N-word, I will put $100,000 down.

01:04:54.000 We found more footage than we could watch in a lifetime.

01:04:57.000 Hours from multiple angles, and it was never said.

01:04:59.000 But it was never corrected from the left because they want to tar and feather everyone who opposes them as racist, as homophobic, as transphobic.

01:05:07.000 Well, first of all, the funny thing is, I don't know if you saw my next appearance on Last Comic Standing, but I did an NAACP joke where I talked exactly about that.

01:05:16.000 And Norm still didn't like that joke.

01:05:18.000 About them calling Clyburn the N-word?

01:05:20.000 No, no, no.

01:05:21.000 My joke was the NAACP is the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

01:05:26.000 Not that advanced to still use the term colored people, but they can't change it to African American, because then their group name would just be, nah...

01:05:33.000 Okay.

01:05:34.000 And there's more tags.

01:05:36.000 That's funny.

01:05:37.000 It's never as funny when you say it now, believe me.

01:05:39.000 Full disclosure, he's a funny comic.

01:05:42.000 I'm not laughing because it's not funny.

01:05:44.000 It's not the same dynamic.

01:05:45.000 No, it's weird when it's two people at a webcam.

01:05:46.000 Absolutely.

01:05:47.000 We're on the same page.

01:05:48.000 It's awkward.

01:05:49.000 100%.

01:05:49.000 I'm just saying that, you know, when we talk about safe, not safe, there...

01:05:57.000 I want to protect all speech, but I don't want people to say, oh, they're trying to prevent me from saying something that is on equal footing.

01:06:06.000 What I mean to say is I think race is easy because we all agree racism is bad.

01:06:10.000 I think most of us can agree that if you're legitimately racist, you're not a good person.

01:06:15.000 Can we agree that's pretty simple?

01:06:18.000 So my point is, the edgiest, most brave thing you could probably do is go on stage and be absolutely racist, because no one would agree with you.

01:06:27.000 If the definition of bravery is saying something that nobody could possibly agree with, then it would definitely be brave to just be super racist on a comedy club stage.

01:06:37.000 But that's not the kind of speech we need to be encouraging or going out of our way to be like, oh, let's make sure he doesn't...

01:06:44.000 If he doesn't get booked, good.

01:06:46.000 He's a huge racist.

01:06:48.000 Yeah, but the point is people like you, and I mean you, not people like you, I mean you.

01:06:52.000 Let me clarify.

01:06:52.000 Sure.

01:06:53.000 We're lauded as risky by Roseanne.

01:06:55.000 Every single person...

01:06:56.000 But I'm not using that term on myself, by the way.

01:06:58.000 I think that's very important.

01:06:58.000 What?

01:06:59.000 It's not like I went off out of my way and said, guys, I'm going to do this real brave set.

01:07:03.000 LAUGHTER Watch out, Norm MacDonald.

01:07:05.000 I'm about to be the bravest boy in the world.

01:07:08.000 But you came on here trying to fact check my piece, right?

01:07:11.000 When my piece, the entire theme to the piece was really about Roseanne and claiming it was risky, and Norm MacDonald said that it wasn't.

01:07:21.000 And the riskiest thing said never was Norm.

01:07:22.000 All I was saying was, it says gay comic, that was inaccurate.

01:07:25.000 We both agreed on that.

01:07:26.000 I'm not entirely sure that it's inaccurate.

01:07:28.000 I wouldn't be surprised.

01:07:30.000 Nice.

01:07:31.000 Alright.

01:07:32.000 Did I mean that pejoratively?

01:07:33.000 No, I meant that in a question.

01:07:35.000 No, that's fair.

01:07:36.000 But have you read the Washington Post?

01:07:37.000 There's a great article today about gaydar and how a new study shows that most people's gaydar is terrible and that gaydar is really just an excuse to use broad stereotypes.

01:07:51.000 Dude, don't give me that shit.

01:07:53.000 Don't try and act like I'm so off-base to assume you're gay.

01:07:57.000 I would be more off-base to assume you're not gay.

01:08:00.000 And I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years down the line, you change hats and you're using it to weaponize against me, to make me look like the dick who thought a guy was gay who wasn't gay.

01:08:10.000 I will use a joke from my act, just so you don't think I made it up because of this.

01:08:13.000 The joke of my act is, and I think this...

01:08:15.000 I express myself better through my own jokes, because those are the things that I've worked on and polished.

01:08:19.000 Sure.

01:08:20.000 But my joke was just, when people say I'm gay, I get upset because it's like, I know about what I like.

01:08:26.000 It would be like if I was like, hey...

01:08:27.000 I don't like cucumbers.

01:08:28.000 And somebody's like, oh, you like cucumbers.

01:08:30.000 I'm like, no, no, I don't like cucumbers.

01:08:32.000 They're like, you sound and you look like you like cucumbers.

01:08:35.000 Like, that's my point.

01:08:37.000 Yeah, and I'm that guy.

01:08:38.000 I definitely still think so.

01:08:40.000 You're not gay.

01:08:41.000 You're wearing the jersey.

01:08:43.000 But you're calling me a liar is basically what you're saying.

01:08:45.000 No, I'm not.

01:08:45.000 I'm just saying it's not like I went out on a limb to assume it.

01:08:48.000 You're using a broad stereotype of what gay people are.

01:08:51.000 Yes.

01:08:51.000 Right?

01:08:52.000 So that's already bad.

01:08:53.000 It's not bad.

01:08:55.000 I don't think it's bad at all.

01:08:56.000 Listen, come on.

01:08:57.000 That's the bullshit that I'm talking about.

01:08:59.000 What, are you saying most guys talk with a lisp and act femininely?

01:09:02.000 Yes.

01:09:03.000 There's a great documentary called Do I Sound Gay that just came out.

01:09:06.000 It would be well worth checking out.

01:09:09.000 I think that speaks to my point more eloquently than...

01:09:12.000 But again, that's the difference.

01:09:14.000 Assuming something because everything, all the information you have available to you is not the same as being hateful.

01:09:21.000 Here's an example.

01:09:22.000 Yes!

01:09:23.000 Yes, I am!

01:09:24.000 You're going to call me out for an extreme example, but if you said, oh, that guy sounds dumb, he must be black, people would be like, that's horribly offensive.

01:09:32.000 That's not the same thing at all.

01:09:33.000 I purposely said I was taking it to a far extreme, but what I'm saying is this is not on that level, but you're still basing something on a stereotype that doesn't exist.

01:09:44.000 There are gay people who talk real butch.

01:09:47.000 Bullshit.

01:09:48.000 There may be some gay people who talk butch, but don't say that stereotype doesn't exist.

01:09:55.000 This is the kind of talk I'm talking about.

01:09:57.000 You go to any single person and any and I know this because any person has been in a green room with you and you've been with other guys.

01:10:03.000 If they're talking or telling a story about a gay guy nine times out of ten, they're telling a story like this.

01:10:08.000 We just had Milo Yiannopoulos, who's as gay as humanly possible, propositioning me on this program.

01:10:15.000 And yeah, he fulfills that stereotype.

01:10:18.000 He would talk about it.

01:10:19.000 The stereotype wouldn't exist if zero people fulfilled that stereotype.

01:10:22.000 So it's not wrong to assume it, especially in a realm where there are a lot of gay people, you're in New York or having a sound.

01:10:30.000 I've had this talk before.

01:10:31.000 It's fine if you make the mistake, but once corrected, there's no reason to hold on to it.

01:10:35.000 No, I just think it's funny.

01:10:37.000 Oh, then by all means...

01:10:38.000 I think me saying, and because Gay Jared here laughed when I said, I'm not entirely sure, gotta laugh.

01:10:43.000 I think it's funny.

01:10:44.000 I'm fine with people making jokes at my expense.

01:10:46.000 And that's not me saying like, you're a dick, you're a bad person, you're going to hell.

01:10:50.000 It's making a joke.

01:10:51.000 Jokes are fine.

01:10:52.000 I defend jokes.

01:10:54.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:10:55.000 I mean, listen, I almost would want to have you back on to know what it's like.

01:10:57.000 Because we get a friend, I can't use his name.

01:10:59.000 I can't use his name because he's too close with me.

01:11:01.000 Okay.

01:11:03.000 I'm going to try to, like, well, let's call him Gay John.

01:11:06.000 To the point where I would always call him Gay John.

01:11:08.000 And my wife was like, he's not gay.

01:11:10.000 I was going, no, no, no, no.

01:11:12.000 He probably doesn't feel good about being called Gay John.

01:11:13.000 I didn't call him Gay John to his face.

01:11:15.000 Okay, gotcha.

01:11:16.000 Because I know a lot of Johns.

01:11:17.000 That's not his name, but he has a name that actually a lot of other friends have.

01:11:20.000 So I'd be like, Gay John?

01:11:23.000 Gay Jared, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

01:11:25.000 Yeah, you're not talking about Gay Jared.

01:11:27.000 No, I'm not talking about Gay Jared.

01:11:28.000 Just to clarify that, too.

01:11:29.000 Sorry.

01:11:29.000 Yeah, I love how we stop this the entire time until he comes...

01:11:31.000 You're just staring at Jared being like, I'm talking about you.

01:11:34.000 Yeah.

01:11:35.000 Well, since we're in the off thing now, we keep it going on air, but we always come back from breaking and go, producing always Gay Jared, and he's like, not gay.

01:11:42.000 And it's implied that he's made a lawsuit and his Twitter handle is not Gay Jared, so we joke about this a lot.

01:11:47.000 He's very metrosexual.

01:11:48.000 But this guy was not metrosexual, okay?

01:11:51.000 Again, like I said, you come across that way.

01:11:53.000 Sorry.

01:11:54.000 It doesn't mean I hate you.

01:11:55.000 But this guy come across like I was with him anywhere we would go.

01:12:00.000 Gay Jared, you know who I'm talking about.

01:12:01.000 Yeah.

01:12:02.000 Would you doubt for a second?

01:12:04.000 You met him.

01:12:05.000 No, I was absolutely astonished that your wife said, surprised.

01:12:11.000 He's the kind of, like, gay where, like, Richard Simmons would show up and be like, oh, that's kind of severe.

01:12:18.000 You know what I mean?

01:12:18.000 Like, really gay.

01:12:20.000 And my wife for a long time was like, he's not gay.

01:12:22.000 I was like, he's gay.

01:12:23.000 And here's the thing, I was like, I don't care, but it was awkward because I'm going...

01:12:27.000 We had to keep the lie alive.

01:12:29.000 Listen, I do have plenty of gay friends.

01:12:31.000 No, he is now.

01:12:33.000 But here's the point.

01:12:34.000 That entire time, she was like, why don't you like hanging out with gay John?

01:12:38.000 It's not because he's gay.

01:12:40.000 It's because it's very uncomfortable because I offend almost everyone.

01:12:44.000 And, you know, if I make a joke, a gay, which guys make, doesn't mean you're homophobic, like, oh, that's gay.

01:12:49.000 Oh, yeah, I bet you would.

01:12:50.000 I'm just saying there's a difference between somebody who's in the closet and somebody who has sex with women saying he's not gay.

01:12:57.000 Right.

01:12:57.000 Well, here's the point is, like, you know, we'd be talking about, and he went on a date, he was dating a girl at one point.

01:13:03.000 And so it was so uncomfortable because I have to be like, so how are things with so-and-so?

01:13:06.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:13:07.000 And you're just like, this guy's just like, he's just faking it, you know?

01:13:09.000 To the point where it was a lot easier to be friends with him when he was like out of the closet.

01:13:12.000 Now, when he came out of the closet, I told my wife, I said, okay, he assumes that you know, okay?

01:13:18.000 Because I've been with him when he's been propped.

01:13:20.000 Like guys have checked him out and given him their number.

01:13:23.000 They assume it's not a secret to him that he came across as gay.

01:13:25.000 I said, what he's saying is things are going to get weird, right?

01:13:29.000 And he was on Tinder, Grindr, which is the gay one, like, right away.

01:13:34.000 And that's why he came out of the closet, because I was like, okay, you're going to see a lot more of a revolving door of men.

01:13:40.000 And it's a lot easier to be friends with him.

01:13:42.000 But that was a perfect example.

01:13:43.000 I was just like, listen, I just don't buy it.

01:13:45.000 And it's sorry, but guys make those stereotypes.

01:13:47.000 They're going to make that judgment.

01:13:49.000 I just feel like...

01:13:52.000 The only reason I get in any way upset about it, and I have a very thick skin.

01:13:55.000 I don't give a shit.

01:13:56.000 I talk about it on stage.

01:13:56.000 It's not like this is a thing that is like...

01:13:58.000 But my point is just, when somebody is like, yeah, no, I'm a very honest person.

01:14:03.000 I'm very open.

01:14:05.000 If I was, I would be out about it.

01:14:08.000 I just am not.

01:14:10.000 I'm not calling you a liar.

01:14:11.000 Yeah, that's my point.

01:14:13.000 I just think the audience is going to get a kick out of it because it's pretty funny.

01:14:16.000 That's why.

01:14:17.000 I have a feeling your audience is going to be a lot of comments about people saying, oh, he's definitely gay.

01:14:21.000 Probably.

01:14:22.000 And potentially getting to bad words and homophobic things.

01:14:26.000 I don't believe in the term.

01:14:28.000 I don't even know what homophobic means.

01:14:29.000 I don't know anyone who is physically afraid of homosexuals.

01:14:32.000 I think if you mean someone who hates gay, just say someone who hates gay people.

01:14:35.000 Sure, I can say that.

01:14:37.000 Homophobic is a stupid term.

01:14:39.000 We'll say people who just hate gay people.

01:14:39.000 Sure.

01:14:41.000 Yeah, because homophobic is allowed to be blanketed, and it's then applied to someone who is against judicial tyranny.

01:14:46.000 I think people who hate people for their race are called racist, and we've agreed that that's the word.

01:14:50.000 So I think homophobic is the word that is just the one that's being used.

01:14:54.000 If you want to propose another word, I am happy to use it.

01:14:57.000 I'm not attached to it.

01:15:00.000 Homosexualist.

01:15:01.000 Michael Che has a great joke about the word homophobia being ridiculous.

01:15:05.000 And it's a great joke because you can feel the tension in the room as everybody who's like, but we like that word.

01:15:11.000 And then he releases that tension because he's so smart about it.

01:15:15.000 Yeah, well, that's a great example.

01:15:16.000 People get uncomfortable because they're afraid of being labeled homophobic.

01:15:19.000 Exactly.

01:15:20.000 His joke is he goes, I don't like the word.

01:15:22.000 He goes, I'm going to butcher his joke.

01:15:26.000 But the idea is...

01:15:26.000 We've both done that with other people's jokes.

01:15:28.000 It's okay.

01:15:29.000 Maybe they actually did have something.

01:15:31.000 Maybe they were genuinely scared by...

01:15:33.000 Maybe they have a gay ghost in their house that is genuinely scary.

01:15:37.000 And so they are legitimately homophobic.

01:15:38.000 Like, he creates a scenario where you could legitimately be scared of gay people without hating them.

01:15:43.000 Yeah.

01:15:43.000 Because he has this gay ghost in his house.

01:15:45.000 But my point is you say that's okay, but if someone goes up and says the word is stupid and, you know, gay is still silly.

01:15:52.000 I think the word is stupid in so much as the word phobia is probably not being used as best as it could.

01:15:56.000 Yeah, I had a bit about that.

01:15:58.000 I don't know why.

01:15:59.000 I'm fine with that.

01:16:00.000 You know how it is.

01:16:02.000 You butcher your own jokes for this.

01:16:02.000 It's been a while.

01:16:03.000 I said, I don't know anyone who's actually afraid of homosexuals.

01:16:06.000 Not to mention, if it is a real fear, how do you cure someone of it?

01:16:10.000 Is it like when I was a kid, afraid of spiders, do I have to touch one?

01:16:13.000 Put your hand on Richard Simmons Sweating the Oldies Volume 4.

01:16:16.000 I can't!

01:16:17.000 It was that kind of bit.

01:16:18.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:16:19.000 I wish there was another word, because I do agree with you on that point.

01:16:26.000 But there are people who hate gay people.

01:16:27.000 But you know why that's the word?

01:16:28.000 It's by design because it's easier to use it as a blanketed term for anyone who opposes anything involving gay people.

01:16:33.000 Well, I think it's easier to say than gayists.

01:16:35.000 I don't think so.

01:16:36.000 Gayist is shorter.

01:16:38.000 I don't know if I like the word gayist.

01:16:40.000 Gayist also is a word for, like, gay, gay, or gayist.

01:16:43.000 So I think there'll be a lot of confusion.

01:16:43.000 Yeah.

01:16:44.000 If you're like, oh, you're gayist, they might think they're the gayest person, as opposed to against gays.

01:16:50.000 Well, you know, the word fat makes me hate word really quickly.

01:16:50.000 Yeah.

01:16:53.000 And I used to have a bit where I said, you know, now, as a conservative, and this is one that got me into trouble in a lot of colleges.

01:16:59.000 This is when I was...

01:16:59.000 So I'd been doing stand-up for a few years, and I was...

01:17:02.000 Well, I was like, when I was doing, you know, APCA and just horror, just the horror of those conferences.

01:17:07.000 They're just terrible.

01:17:08.000 You do it and you go to these...

01:17:09.000 There's a great article in The Atlantic, which is all about sort of the sense of self-censorship as a comedian at NACA. It's wonderful.

01:17:09.000 I can't imagine going...

01:17:17.000 I think you would actually really...

01:17:18.000 Well, in Canada, it was COCA. And it was even worse.

01:17:21.000 Canada was COCA. And there was NACA, APCA, right?

01:17:26.000 They're like different conferences.

01:17:28.000 Um...

01:17:29.000 I don't remember which one, but what was I going to say?

01:17:31.000 Something about it.

01:17:32.000 So I used to have a bit because at that point I was younger than a lot of kids who were still graduating college.

01:17:32.000 Oh, oh, oh.

01:17:36.000 You know, I started saying it when I was 17.

01:17:37.000 And so, you know, nowadays, and this is, again, dealing with the hipster thing.

01:17:40.000 This was before I really knew I was conservative, by the way.

01:17:43.000 I kind of found out like, oh, I'm pretty conservative because I hate people who censor free speech and I hate political correctness and I don't want to pay higher taxes.

01:17:50.000 And yeah, I'm a Christian and I don't really care if anyone else is.

01:17:53.000 But I think that's how I kind of found out I was a conservative.

01:17:57.000 And the bit was, you know, I'm now being told to be tolerant to alternative lifestyles from the same gentleman who a mere year ago referred to me as faggot.

01:18:04.000 And that was the bit, and it was a lead-in to the hipster bit, and it got me in a lot of trouble out of college.

01:18:10.000 I was like, did you understand the context to that bit?

01:18:13.000 Oh, I've gotten in trouble for crazy things at colleges.

01:18:16.000 I mean, yeah, I think...

01:18:18.000 Well, comedy clubs are just as bad, though.

01:18:20.000 No, it depends on the club.

01:18:21.000 It really depends on the club.

01:18:22.000 It depends on the book or at the club.

01:18:23.000 Absolutely.

01:18:24.000 And I've had that happen.

01:18:25.000 And it's their right.

01:18:26.000 I mean, they're a private business, right?

01:18:28.000 It's their right, but it also breeds one point of view at most in the stand-up world.

01:18:33.000 I would think that there's enough.

01:18:35.000 There are enough.

01:18:36.000 I've seen a lot of bookers, and you've probably met a lot of bookers.

01:18:38.000 They're a diverse group, I think.

01:18:41.000 Maybe not the most diverse group in the world, but there are a lot of conservative bookers and a lot of liberal bookers.

01:18:46.000 No, bookers.

01:18:46.000 Jared was thinking hookers.

01:18:48.000 Sorry, he was asking me a question.

01:18:50.000 No, I've never met a conservative booker.

01:18:52.000 Well, he's not the booker.

01:18:53.000 Owner of a comedy teller.

01:18:55.000 Know him.

01:18:56.000 He's pretty conservative.

01:18:56.000 Right.

01:18:58.000 He's very conservative.

01:18:59.000 Yeah, but he's not the booker.

01:18:59.000 Yeah.

01:19:01.000 No, but he's the owner and it's very important to him that comedians are protected and can say whatever they want.

01:19:07.000 That's true.

01:19:08.000 He's unbelievable about that.

01:19:10.000 Yeah.

01:19:11.000 Not every booker and booker is like that.

01:19:14.000 Yeah, and most liberal bookers.

01:19:16.000 I can tell you about one where it's the club.

01:19:20.000 I think most of those liberal bookers would book Nick DiPaolo, don't you think?

01:19:23.000 Well, yeah, but he's been in for a long time and he wasn't more open about his conservatism until later.

01:19:27.000 It's funny.

01:19:28.000 It's not just a funny thing.

01:19:29.000 Again, that's the thing.

01:19:30.000 It's not just a funny thing.

01:19:32.000 When you've been on the front page of news outlets for a joke, it's almost always a conservative.

01:19:38.000 It's happened to me.

01:19:39.000 My fighting back is just not caring and I only do private shows now.

01:19:42.000 I'm not going to go up in some comedy club or go to a college where we literally get protesters.

01:19:48.000 We had protesters at shows for a comedy show.

01:19:51.000 I had to do, you know, I do a Q&A afterward.

01:19:52.000 I had someone fact-checking my jokes, which is why I got a little irked when you were, you know, about the column, you know, getting on the title.

01:19:59.000 I said, well, that wasn't the point to the piece.

01:20:01.000 But I think my main reason for being upset at the beginning, and I've gotten drunk with Ann Coulter.

01:20:01.000 Right.

01:20:07.000 Yeah, I know.

01:20:08.000 Yeah.

01:20:08.000 Well, she's like super close with Sherrod over there on the comedy show.

01:20:10.000 Yeah, she's a pretty amazing person.

01:20:12.000 I don't agree with any of her views, but she's- I don't agree with many of her views.

01:20:16.000 Yeah.

01:20:17.000 I don't think there's many...

01:20:18.000 Yeah, I don't know if she agrees with any...

01:20:19.000 She's a big Trump fan, and I've gotten so much flack for not being...

01:20:22.000 Which is crazy.

01:20:22.000 But...

01:20:23.000 We agree.

01:20:23.000 My whole thing is, the article...

01:20:25.000 We've talked by Twitter, we've talked through this thing.

01:20:28.000 You've agreed that I'm somewhat funny as a comedian.

01:20:31.000 No, I've said you're funny!

01:20:33.000 Right, but the article says that I'm basically not.

01:20:36.000 So I think there was...

01:20:37.000 No, the article doesn't say you're not funny.

01:20:38.000 It says, who doesn't think actual comedians who are actually funny?

01:20:42.000 I mean, it's...

01:20:44.000 If that's in there, then that's not fair.

01:20:46.000 That's in there, and then it says the look on the quote comedian's face.

01:20:50.000 That I'm a comedian is in quotes.

01:20:52.000 Okay.

01:20:53.000 So I think the tone of it was pretty clearly against me and my humor.

01:20:58.000 That's fair.

01:20:59.000 So I think, you know, I think, if anything, we have mostly...

01:21:03.000 Yeah, so that was...

01:21:04.000 That's fair.

01:21:05.000 And like you said, you know, with a site where we do that many things, you know, sometimes framework goes into other writers.

01:21:09.000 And that's why I'm all about this kind of conversation.

01:21:10.000 And I fall on that sword.

01:21:11.000 I'm not passing it off to a writer, but sometimes I'll be like, okay, frame this in.

01:21:14.000 Because I was the one who watched it and called them and said, hey, this is something people are doing that, right?

01:21:19.000 No, I would never call you not being a comedian into question.

01:21:22.000 So I will go back and fix that.

01:21:24.000 And I'll fix it.

01:21:25.000 I won't issue something else like HuffPo where they issued an apology if Stephen Crowder didn't use the N-word and it was four pages.

01:21:30.000 And the other thing, by the way, too, is you quoted from The Hollywood Reporter.

01:21:32.000 This is literally...

01:21:33.000 No, that was something else.

01:21:34.000 That was from...

01:21:34.000 No, that was in...

01:21:35.000 I'm looking at the article.

01:21:36.000 Yes, but it was about something else and we did provide it in the context where he talked about atheist comedians and being a Christian.

01:21:40.000 Right, but yeah, and it also didn't link back to it.

01:21:42.000 And this is literally, my grandmother was an English teacher, and so this has nothing to do with my, like, this has nothing to do with anything other than, like, as both creative people, I always just get irked when people aren't, don't link back to the origin of where it is.

01:21:57.000 Go through the website.

01:22:00.000 I think if you go through the website, you'll find we're pretty damn fair.

01:22:03.000 We hyperlink everything.

01:22:04.000 I'm absolutely being nitpicking, and I'm sure there's somebody who's going to be like, why is he going so...

01:22:08.000 And by the way, You would not find a single leftist who would allow me to come onto their program like this unedited and do it.

01:22:17.000 You won't find it.

01:22:18.000 Chelsea Handler edited that shit.

01:22:21.000 That's why no one would want to go on who didn't agree with her directly.

01:22:24.000 It was always edited to make her look funny.

01:22:27.000 I mean, Bill Maher is live, so there's no editing there.

01:22:29.000 Yeah, except he has his crowd of absolute trained seals and silences.

01:22:33.000 I mean, I'm just saying there are people who are live.

01:22:36.000 There's no way to edit.

01:22:37.000 Well, he's a perfect example.

01:22:39.000 Okay, can we both agree that Bill Maher, nine times out of ten, puts politics over the funny, is open about those stupid conservatives all the time, and his little head lilt is the cue for his audience to laugh, even if it's not a joke, and it's just a political point, and you could never have that with someone from the If you paint liberals the way...

01:22:59.000 Here's the way I look at it.

01:23:00.000 I'm not.

01:23:00.000 I'm painting Bill Maher that way.

01:23:01.000 But I'm saying there's a spectrum, right?

01:23:03.000 And there are people who are way far right and way far left, and I think you're way far one side, and Bill Maher is way far the other side.

01:23:11.000 I don't think I am.

01:23:11.000 And you guys are equally wrong.

01:23:13.000 I don't think I am, though.

01:23:14.000 I don't think I am.

01:23:15.000 I know you don't think that, but I think most people listening...

01:23:17.000 I think I'm much more consistent.

01:23:20.000 I'm not talking about consistency.

01:23:21.000 I'm talking about just sort of how far on the political spectrum you fall.

01:23:26.000 Well, if you see freedom of speech as far right, then I think, yes, then we have an issue.

01:23:30.000 That's not the only...

01:23:31.000 I'm saying, just across the board, there's a spectrum with liberal on one side and conservative on the other side.

01:23:37.000 I think most comics and most people try to stay towards the middle.

01:23:41.000 No, no, no, no, not even close.

01:23:43.000 Listen, if that were the case, Bill Maher would have much harder time than all the comics are going on.

01:23:48.000 And you are actually right in terms of the data is showing that people are becoming more radicalized.

01:23:52.000 I think that's why we're getting less done.

01:23:53.000 They're not becoming more radicalized.

01:23:54.000 They're becoming further left.

01:23:55.000 Listen, if you're talking about to the right...

01:23:57.000 Further left and further right.

01:23:59.000 What do you consider far right?

01:24:01.000 I mean, the Tea Party is considered farther right than the Republican Party.

01:24:05.000 Do you consider Occupy Wall Street far right?

01:24:08.000 Occupy Wall Street is probably more far left.

01:24:10.000 Well, let me tell you something.

01:24:10.000 Okay.

01:24:12.000 Before Occupy Wall Street, the Tea Party came out.

01:24:15.000 Do you know how the Tea Party started?

01:24:16.000 It was from a rant from Santelli.

01:24:18.000 And this was on either CNBC or Follow the...

01:24:18.000 Okay?

01:24:21.000 One of those money shows.

01:24:21.000 I don't know.

01:24:22.000 And it was against the big Wall Street banks and the bailouts.

01:24:26.000 The Tea Party...

01:24:27.000 And I've spoken and performed and done bits at Tea Parties.

01:24:30.000 Just another gig where you show up and do it.

01:24:32.000 Yeah.

01:24:33.000 We talked about big banks and the bailouts and being against it long before Occupy came out.

01:24:39.000 Yet in the comedy community, if you go up and say, you know what?

01:24:41.000 I think the Tea Party's got this kind of right.

01:24:43.000 Oh my God, you're racist.

01:24:45.000 How dare you?

01:24:45.000 you but you go up and actually had to debate a comedian on a montreal radio cjad you can find on my youtube channel about the occupy protests the only difference between the tea party and the occupy protest is one was organized actually had influence over politics committed no crimes and one had a list of over 400 felonies the occupy protests where they were shitting and smearing their aids blood all over tents and writing signs about it like aids blood right so So that's...

01:25:09.000 No, that's literally a thing.

01:25:10.000 There's actually a sign and shit and blood saying there's AIDS on your tent at Occupy in Toronto.

01:25:17.000 I would not defend that.

01:25:19.000 That's not a joke.

01:25:20.000 My point is they come out and everyone goes like, I remember even, I don't know if it was Mark Maron or if it was, I don't know who it was, but it was like...

01:25:27.000 My point is there are issues that are typically liberal and typically conservative in terms of abortion.

01:25:32.000 You know where conservatives are mostly going to fall and you know where liberals are mostly going to fall.

01:25:36.000 But then you have someone like Christopher Hitchens, who's an atheist libertarian who undeniably will acknowledge, well, did, obviously, late Christopher Hitchens, acknowledge that the science declares it a life.

01:25:46.000 See, I'm not pro...

01:25:48.000 I'm not saying there aren't exceptions.

01:25:50.000 I'm just saying there's a liberal conservative spectrum in American politics, and Bill Maher, you would agree, falls way far on the left side.

01:25:56.000 Would you not agree?

01:25:58.000 I would say Bill...

01:25:59.000 I don't know about the spectrum you're talking about.

01:26:00.000 Bill Maher is a leftist.

01:26:02.000 Right, but you wouldn't consider yourself a rightist?

01:26:03.000 No.

01:26:04.000 I would consider myself a conservative.

01:26:07.000 I call myself a conservative.

01:26:08.000 I think the problem is when it's your point of view, you have an open mind and you have a reasonable opinion, and the other side is too extreme.

01:26:16.000 And I'm saying, I think you're very extreme on one side, he's very extreme on one side, you're both very extreme on your opposite side.

01:26:23.000 I don't think it's fair to say that Bill Maher is...

01:26:28.000 You're saying he's too extreme because he's too far left?

01:26:30.000 No, no, it's not.

01:26:31.000 That's not why I'm saying it.

01:26:32.000 That's not why I'm saying it.

01:26:33.000 And I don't think it's extreme to stand for freedom in all cases.

01:26:37.000 You know, people have gotten mad at me.

01:26:38.000 You don't think Bill Maher also stands for freedom?

01:26:40.000 No, I don't.

01:26:41.000 No, I don't.

01:26:42.000 That's such a broad term.

01:26:43.000 Yeah, I absolutely don't.

01:26:44.000 When you want to take more of what I earn having created a business and give it to someone else, that's theft.

01:26:49.000 I don't think that's freedom.

01:26:50.000 When you want to talk about censoring speech because it's something you don't like, I don't think that's freedom.

01:26:55.000 When you want to talk about paying for somebody else's health care, I don't think that's freedom.

01:27:00.000 When you want to talk about forcibly paying for an abortion, I don't think that's freedom.

01:27:03.000 When you want to talk about the Supreme Court forcibly...

01:27:05.000 Here's my point.

01:27:07.000 We could disagree, and I'm happy to disagree and have conversations where we disagree.

01:27:11.000 Right.

01:27:11.000 But once you start saying, like, if you disagree with me, you're anti-freedom, which is the converse of what you're saying, that's a problem.

01:27:19.000 I think that if you believe in hate speech laws, you're anti-freedom.

01:27:19.000 I do.

01:27:22.000 Absolutely.

01:27:23.000 My point is, for example, if you're pro-abortion, it doesn't mean you're in favor of murder.

01:27:32.000 You can disagree.

01:27:33.000 I acknowledge that people have a difference of opinion.

01:27:36.000 Yeah.

01:27:37.000 You know what I mean?

01:27:37.000 And I think the problem is when you start saying, like, I'm for freedom.

01:27:41.000 You're for a very specific set of beliefs.

01:27:43.000 No, I'm not.

01:27:45.000 You don't have specific beliefs?

01:27:45.000 Listen, that's...

01:27:46.000 No, no, no.

01:27:47.000 I'm not for enforcing a specific set of beliefs.

01:27:51.000 I'm not.

01:27:51.000 You're for enforcing your set of beliefs on every state and every clerk and every church in the county.

01:27:55.000 I'm not.

01:27:56.000 You're for enforcing your beliefs on what speech should be applicable and what shouldn't, as we've seen in Canada.

01:28:01.000 I'm not.

01:28:02.000 You're for enforcing your speech on what you think people...

01:28:04.000 People should be able to access as far as healthcare and what people should pay in taxes.

01:28:07.000 I'm not.

01:28:08.000 Nobody's forcing you to have a gay marriage, and nobody's even forcing you, unless it's your government job that you signed up for.

01:28:13.000 No, but the courts are forcing individual states to recognize something as a human right.

01:28:19.000 Just like they force individual states to recognize interracial marriage.

01:28:21.000 It's not the same thing at all.

01:28:23.000 See, we disagree on that.

01:28:25.000 Yeah, I think it's a huge—and I think that's a perfect example of a great disservice to an entire race of people with a rich and varied history to compare it to one's preference of sexual friction.

01:28:35.000 I'd like to acknowledge that everybody is trying to do—I'd like to think everybody's trying to do the right thing and is trying to be a force for good.

01:28:44.000 Oh, come on.

01:28:45.000 I just think a lot of Bill Maher and your side, both of you guys, you both are trying to create straw men and try to oversimplify things so that your side seems obviously correct.

01:28:54.000 You really think I've oversimplified things here?

01:28:56.000 I explained you constitutional law.

01:28:57.000 You just kind of disagree with you.

01:28:58.000 You're anti-freedom.

01:28:59.000 You said that.

01:28:59.000 That's not what I said.

01:29:00.000 I said I don't think that supporting freedom in all facets is extreme.

01:29:04.000 That's what I said.

01:29:05.000 For example, I don't believe in drugs.

01:29:05.000 Sure.

01:29:07.000 I don't believe in drugs.

01:29:08.000 If someone wants to smoke crack, go ahead.

01:29:10.000 Okay.

01:29:11.000 That's not me enforcing my beliefs.

01:29:13.000 Fine.

01:29:13.000 Now, I don't think marriage should be involved.

01:29:17.000 Government should be involved in marriage.

01:29:18.000 But if Texas wants to say, hey, three women marrying one guy is legal and two guys getting married is not, I think Texas has that right.

01:29:27.000 My view allows for more freedom than your view or Bill Maher's.

01:29:31.000 Well, that's more of a libertarian view than a traditional conservative view.

01:29:35.000 Yeah, I think libertarian is a cop-out term because Glenn Beck, Greg Gutfeld, and Bill Maher all consider themselves libertarians.

01:29:40.000 It doesn't mean anything.

01:29:41.000 Okay.

01:29:42.000 Well, there's still words that have meaning attached to them, regardless of whether they're missing.

01:29:48.000 But you just say, you know, it's this whole moral...

01:29:50.000 Well, Bill Maher is one way...

01:29:51.000 One person believes in freedom consistently, and that's me.

01:29:51.000 No.

01:29:55.000 And what's funny is a lot of people are like, Stephen believes in banning pot.

01:29:57.000 But I'm saying Bill Maher and people that agree with him, and I agree with a lot of...

01:30:00.000 You know, when it comes to, for example, gay marriage, we believe that the people who think gay marriage should be legal, we believe that prevent that...

01:30:08.000 Why?

01:30:08.000 It should be a...

01:30:10.000 My question is why?

01:30:12.000 Why do you think gay marriage needs to be the law of the land as per the court, which doesn't have the authority to create laws?

01:30:20.000 Why?

01:30:20.000 What's your justification?

01:30:22.000 Freedom.

01:30:23.000 We're going to use the freedom argument because you should have the freedom to marry regardless of your sexual orientation.

01:30:28.000 So you believe that marriage is a fundamental human right?

01:30:31.000 I'm saying it's a right that straight people have and equality requires...

01:30:35.000 And it's a right that gay people had just as much.

01:30:37.000 They just didn't want to marry people of the opposite sex.

01:30:40.000 This is, again, you could do this.

01:30:43.000 No, no, no, I'm not.

01:30:44.000 You need to rationalize your argument as to why marriage is a fundamental human right.

01:30:48.000 I've already declared that it's not.

01:30:50.000 So I don't need to justify it.

01:30:52.000 Why is marriage a fundamental human birthright to any person you want?

01:30:56.000 No, no.

01:30:56.000 Again, what I said, and I don't like being taken out of context.

01:31:00.000 What I said was, straight marriage, straight marriage is on the books, right?

01:31:00.000 I'm not.

01:31:05.000 Right.

01:31:06.000 We agree with that?

01:31:07.000 It's on the books.

01:31:07.000 Sure.

01:31:09.000 Okay.

01:31:09.000 Correct?

01:31:10.000 So, if I believe gay people deserve equal rights, then I have only two options.

01:31:15.000 Correct?

01:31:16.000 I can either take away straight marriage so that nobody has it.

01:31:19.000 Now see what you just did is you did something where even earlier you were talking about gay marriage and people are gay marriage.

01:31:24.000 It's just marriage.

01:31:25.000 No, you have to start off by calling it straight marriage.

01:31:28.000 Because either marriage is on the books, which is a man and a woman being recognized.

01:31:32.000 That's your opinion.

01:31:33.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:31:34.000 If you say straight marriage, then you can't say, you can't go back and say, well, you can't go back and say, well, why say gay marriage?

01:31:43.000 It's just marriage.

01:31:45.000 You can't do that if you say straight marriage.

01:31:47.000 I'm not saying that.

01:31:48.000 We're having a...

01:31:49.000 I don't think straight marriage or gay marriage is either marriage or it's not.

01:31:53.000 You're picking apart not even my language.

01:31:54.000 I'm saying gay versus straight because it makes this argument clear.

01:31:56.000 I'm trying to be as clear as possible.

01:31:58.000 End of story.

01:31:59.000 There's no agenda other than clarity.

01:32:01.000 Okay.

01:32:02.000 If we have straight marriage on the books...

01:32:05.000 But it's not called straight marriage.

01:32:06.000 It's always been called marriage.

01:32:07.000 Continue.

01:32:09.000 You know what I'm saying, right?

01:32:10.000 No, I don't, because marriage was one man and one woman.

01:32:13.000 That was the definition of marriage.

01:32:15.000 It wasn't called straight marriage.

01:32:16.000 Word, marriage.

01:32:17.000 In the U.S. as far as law, one man, one woman.

01:32:19.000 That was marriage.

01:32:20.000 That's why it matters.

01:32:21.000 Because otherwise, if you say straight marriage, then you can say gay marriage.

01:32:25.000 It was never called straight marriage.

01:32:26.000 It was called marriage.

01:32:28.000 Now, that definition was marriage, man and woman.

01:32:30.000 You believe that marriage, man and woman, is a fundamental human right that should be applicable to anyone.

01:32:36.000 Why?

01:32:39.000 Well, first of all, we're going to go that far into what the definition of marriage is.

01:32:44.000 The definition of the word marriage is the legal union of a couple as spouses, period.

01:32:50.000 No, as a man and a woman.

01:32:52.000 Not according to history or the law.

01:32:55.000 A good example, would you support bigamy, polygamy?

01:32:58.000 I do.

01:32:59.000 I think now that same-sex marriage is the law, I do now.

01:33:02.000 I do as well.

01:33:04.000 So you understand that.

01:33:05.000 You have to acknowledge that then.

01:33:06.000 I'm acknowledging it and totally fine with it.

01:33:08.000 My point is though, we're talking about gay couples who are trying to get married.

01:33:14.000 I believe gay people have the same rights as straight people.

01:33:17.000 I don't believe marriage is a fundamental human right.

01:33:20.000 I don't, for straight people or gay people.

01:33:22.000 Yeah, but here's the thing.

01:33:23.000 If straight people are getting stuff by being married, and they are, then...

01:33:30.000 They are getting something that is being denied.

01:33:32.000 Well, hold on a second.

01:33:33.000 Here we get to another reason, right?

01:33:33.000 Hold on a second.

01:33:34.000 And this is important.

01:33:36.000 The reason I'm saying this is because you want to have this discussion, and I think you said earlier that I was simplifying arguments.

01:33:41.000 I think you're simplifying an argument here.

01:33:42.000 So marriage is in the books.

01:33:43.000 We both agree it would be best if the government recognized civil unions, marriage to the churches, right?

01:33:49.000 Okay.

01:33:49.000 Sure.

01:33:50.000 But it's on the books.

01:33:51.000 So we both acknowledge it's on the books, right?

01:33:52.000 Right.

01:33:53.000 Okay.

01:33:54.000 Why is it on the books?

01:33:55.000 Right.

01:33:56.000 Because, in this country, they said, oh my gosh, before federal government, before state government, before municipal government, the most important central building block to a society, to a functioning society, is a nuclear family.

01:34:08.000 A mother, a father, and children.

01:34:10.000 And so, through tax incentives, through property incentives, we want to encourage that because...

01:34:17.000 No, no, but that's exactly why this is written.

01:34:19.000 That's not why.

01:34:20.000 That is exactly why it exists.

01:34:21.000 That is absolutely why.

01:34:22.000 As a matter of fact, it was written out and it would be so absurd that it would be changed that they didn't even consider it.

01:34:28.000 But the idea was, again, limited government.

01:34:31.000 The same reason that federal government, their authority, was very, very limited in their purview compared to state government, right?

01:34:37.000 That's the idea of federalism.

01:34:38.000 But these are the same people who thought black people were three-fifths of a white...

01:34:41.000 No, no, that's not true and it's not a majority of people.

01:34:45.000 Just like if you look, people, it's the same thing people try and say, well, you know what?

01:34:47.000 We took the land from Native Americans.

01:34:49.000 We had slaves.

01:34:49.000 We fought and we changed it.

01:34:49.000 No, no, no.

01:34:51.000 Okay?

01:34:51.000 Right.

01:34:52.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:34:52.000 We need to, so let's change our view about it.

01:34:55.000 And here's why.

01:34:55.000 No, but it's not the same thing.

01:34:57.000 Why can't we fight for women's mother?

01:34:58.000 Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?

01:35:00.000 Because you're not going to let me finish my point, so let me simplify it.

01:35:02.000 Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?

01:35:04.000 Because let me explain this to you.

01:35:05.000 I believe that a black mother can provide anything that a white mother can to a child.

01:35:12.000 I do not believe that a man can provide anything to a child that a woman can.

01:35:16.000 I believe that they are intrinsically unique and valuable.

01:35:18.000 Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?

01:35:21.000 I think when it comes to raising children, all the studies...

01:35:24.000 Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?

01:35:26.000 Because that has to be the basis of marriage being a fundamental human right to all sexual orientations.

01:35:33.000 What I'm trying to say, and I think this is pretty obvious, but is that men...

01:35:39.000 Do women and men offer different things?

01:35:41.000 Potentially, sure.

01:35:42.000 But a gay couple is offering different things to their children than a straight couple, too.

01:35:46.000 So either way, there's...

01:35:48.000 Any two parents will be different than any other two parents.

01:35:52.000 You haven't answered my question.

01:35:55.000 Are they interchangeable?

01:35:57.000 Are men and women fundamentally interchangeable?

01:35:59.000 When it comes to parenting, I think it's yes.

01:36:01.000 You think they are?

01:36:02.000 Okay.

01:36:02.000 Sure.

01:36:03.000 Scientists, biologists would disagree.

01:36:07.000 That's fine.

01:36:08.000 So we're talking about a right that you have to recognize, okay, why is it on the books at this point?

01:36:13.000 Why does it exist?

01:36:15.000 What's the interchangeability of genders?

01:36:18.000 And of course now the idea is that gender is just a societal precept and it doesn't really exist, which is funny because if that's the case, it flies in the entire face of the transgender movement because to say that you're transgender, to say that you were born the wrong gender.

01:36:30.000 This tends to be the tactic when people are losing an argument, is they tend to bring in everything that they possibly can so that I can't respond to all the points.

01:36:38.000 No, okay, so I asked you very point blank if you believe men and women were fundamentally interchangeable.

01:36:43.000 No, no, because I asked you if men and women were fundamentally interchangeable and you wouldn't answer it.

01:36:46.000 It's a very simple issue.

01:36:47.000 There are gay couples.

01:36:48.000 Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?

01:36:50.000 When dealing with the issue of it being a fundamental birthright, let's get down to the fundamental aspect.

01:36:55.000 I am saying that there are gay couples, they exist, and we either choose to recognize them as equals to straight couples or not.

01:37:01.000 As parents, as spouses, end of story.

01:37:04.000 I choose because I have evidently more of a libertarian point of view than you do.

01:37:08.000 No, you don't.

01:37:09.000 You don't.

01:37:10.000 You don't.

01:37:10.000 See, that's the thing.

01:37:11.000 Here's the thing.

01:37:12.000 Here's what you do.

01:37:13.000 You apply something that was never said.

01:37:16.000 Just like you did with Norm.

01:37:17.000 Well, he was booed.

01:37:18.000 He didn't get the joke.

01:37:19.000 You don't know that he didn't get the joke.

01:37:20.000 You don't know that your view is more libertarian than mine is.

01:37:23.000 I already agreed.

01:37:23.000 I don't think that the government should be in the marriage-running business.

01:37:26.000 My point is, and if you would have been able to answer the simple step-by-step, is this.

01:37:30.000 If they have to be in the marriage business, you leave an equality, and it's got to be equal.

01:37:35.000 You throw out the term homophobic.

01:37:37.000 You throw out the term things like hateful or people who hate gay people.

01:37:40.000 There are people who hate gay people.

01:37:41.000 There are people.

01:37:42.000 But here's my point.

01:37:43.000 There are a lot of them.

01:37:44.000 I am one of them?

01:37:45.000 No, I said there are a lot of them.

01:37:46.000 Oh, okay.

01:37:47.000 Here's my point.

01:37:48.000 There are a lot of people out there, most people who oppose the judicial tyranny that's taking place, who don't hate gay people.

01:37:57.000 By the way, including Christians who think that homosexuality is wrong just like promiscuous sex is wrong.

01:38:05.000 Regardless of if they've had divorces or they've been promiscuous, those people can have those standards and not be homophobic and not be hateful.

01:38:13.000 That's what I was getting to.

01:38:14.000 When you get to that point and you accept that fact, throwing out blanketed terms like homophobic, it creates a more hostile environment.

01:38:21.000 This is great because this loops us all the way back around to the original joke that we were talking about, which is my point is, People who don't think gay people deserve equal rights or shouldn't be allowed to get married.

01:38:32.000 Those people are not talking about equal rights.

01:38:32.000 That's bullshit, though.

01:38:35.000 So you throw out terms like homophobic, equal rights, pro-choice.

01:38:39.000 No, it's not.

01:38:40.000 If I say marriage is not a fundamental human right to anybody, and that's a lot of people who agree with me, you can't say that it's about equal rights and I'm trying to deny equal rights.

01:38:52.000 If the government was giving $1,000 to anybody who's married, Right?

01:38:57.000 Or anybody who's in a couple.

01:38:59.000 Let's say, if you were in a relationship, let's make it simpler.

01:39:02.000 The government decides we're going to give a $1,000 check to anybody who's in a relationship.

01:39:07.000 But we define a relationship as different genders.

01:39:10.000 So if you're in a gay relationship, you don't get that check.

01:39:14.000 I would say that it's pretty messed up.

01:39:15.000 I think both people would say that that is a bigoted way to do that.

01:39:19.000 That is a messed up thing to do.

01:39:21.000 Would you not agree?

01:39:22.000 Well, no, I think it's a messed up thing that, again, as a leftist, the first example you go to is government giving away money.

01:39:29.000 But you're just distracting because...

01:39:31.000 No, I'm not.

01:39:31.000 I'm not.

01:39:32.000 I think it's indicative of a mindset.

01:39:35.000 Because that's not what's happening.

01:39:37.000 It is what's happening because when you're married, you get certain rights that do affect you financially.

01:39:41.000 No, no, it's not.

01:39:42.000 It's not when you're talking about civil unions.

01:39:44.000 And it's the same reason why civil unions weren't enough.

01:39:46.000 States completely recognizing marriage.

01:39:47.000 It's a way for people to pretend that they're separate but equal.

01:39:50.000 Civil unions is separate but equal.

01:39:51.000 Just like you.

01:39:52.000 Here's the thing.

01:39:53.000 You not only believe...

01:39:54.000 They both get water fountains.

01:39:56.000 Let me walk you down and you can correct me if anything that I say is...

01:39:59.000 Segregation was not acceptable.

01:40:01.000 Separate but equal is not a thing.

01:40:03.000 If you can correct me if anything I've said down the trail, then I'm going to go down the trail here because you say that I was trying to bring in everything.

01:40:09.000 So I want to simplify it down to everything that you've said.

01:40:11.000 Okay, so marriage is a fundamental human right.

01:40:13.000 Okay, fair.

01:40:15.000 No, regardless of whether it's a fundamental human right, if it's a right that's being offered to straight couples, it should be offered to gay couples.

01:40:21.000 Okay.

01:40:22.000 End of story.

01:40:23.000 So you're saying it's a fundamental human right?

01:40:25.000 No, I'm not.

01:40:26.000 Yes, you are.

01:40:27.000 It doesn't matter if it's fundamental or not fundamental.

01:40:29.000 It's a human right.

01:40:31.000 Okay, if any man...

01:40:33.000 Okay, let me, again, simplify it, boil it down.

01:40:36.000 I don't mean to get mad and say that I'm editing you or taking it out of context.

01:40:38.000 I don't do that.

01:40:39.000 If any men and women can get legally married in the United States at all, it should be a fundamental right afforded to any heterosexuals or homosexuals as well.

01:40:50.000 Correct?

01:40:51.000 Right.

01:40:52.000 Okay, that's fair.

01:40:54.000 So...

01:40:55.000 That's the case.

01:40:56.000 Now, you don't believe that that should be left to the states.

01:41:00.000 Correct.

01:41:01.000 We're not arguing about the Supreme Court.

01:41:03.000 I'm walking out, but yes, we are.

01:41:03.000 Yes, we are.

01:41:05.000 No, we're arguing whether or not gay marriage should be legal.

01:41:07.000 We're arguing about, right now, you talked about Kim Davis.

01:41:07.000 No, we are.

01:41:10.000 This is what got us down this trail.

01:41:12.000 Judicial tyranny.

01:41:13.000 So, marriage, if it's available, I want to make really clear, because I don't want to misrepresent your argument here, because I want to get to my point.

01:41:19.000 If it's available to any men and women at all, It should be available just as freely to men and men, homosexuals.

01:41:27.000 And women and women.

01:41:28.000 Yes, absolutely.

01:41:29.000 It should not be left to the states.

01:41:32.000 Texas shouldn't be able to say, we have our definition of marriage and California gets to vote and have their own.

01:41:39.000 I would agree.

01:41:40.000 So it shouldn't be left to the states.

01:41:40.000 Okay.

01:41:42.000 So it can't be civil unions.

01:41:44.000 It has to be marriage.

01:41:46.000 And the states have no say in it.

01:41:49.000 Here's the thing.

01:41:50.000 When we talk about the Supreme Court case for interracial marriage, it was the same thing.

01:41:54.000 There's a lot of states that didn't want to allow interracial marriage.

01:41:58.000 And that's why we have three breakages.

01:42:00.000 Yeah, but it wasn't a religious argument from those people.

01:42:03.000 It doesn't matter.

01:42:05.000 It does.

01:42:05.000 First Amendment does matter.

01:42:07.000 So let me again continue.

01:42:08.000 So states have no right.

01:42:09.000 So marriage is a fundamental human right.

01:42:11.000 People did use religious arguments.

01:42:12.000 No, hold on a second.

01:42:14.000 And there's a reason that people who fought against it more than anyone were Christians.

01:42:19.000 Not even close.

01:42:19.000 Just like Christians were the ones, Christian Republicans were the ones who ended slavery.

01:42:23.000 Christian Republicans were the ones who passed the Civil Rights Act.

01:42:26.000 Okay, it's always been Christian Republicans, never been liberal Democrats, ever.

01:42:29.000 Robert Byrd, fourth in line for above in the presidency.

01:42:31.000 KKK Dental and Company Car.

01:42:31.000 Hold on, hold on.

01:42:33.000 That is so bullshit.

01:42:35.000 Yeah, no, it's completely accurate.

01:42:37.000 The liberals are as Christian as Republicans.

01:42:38.000 How many Jews or Muslims are there in the Senate or Congress, especially if you go back in time 50 years?

01:42:43.000 So to say that anything that Congress did, period, was by majority Christians and continues to be by majority Christians.

01:42:50.000 It doesn't change the fact that Christian Republicans were the ones who passed the Civil Rights Act and did slavery and segregation.

01:42:55.000 There were the Republicans.

01:42:56.000 There were as many Christians against it as there were for it.

01:42:59.000 That's so true.

01:42:59.000 No.

01:43:00.000 No, it's not.

01:43:02.000 Absolutely, you're wrong.

01:43:04.000 No, I'm not.

01:43:06.000 We can look it up.

01:43:07.000 This is a fact.

01:43:08.000 You can go ahead.

01:43:08.000 It's not true that there are just as many Christians opposed to it.

01:43:11.000 Some people tried to use those arguments.

01:43:12.000 I'm not entitled to my own facts.

01:43:13.000 You're wrong.

01:43:14.000 I know.

01:43:15.000 You're incorrect.

01:43:16.000 So you believe that Democrats passed the Civil Rights Act?

01:43:16.000 No, you're incorrect.

01:43:18.000 You believe Democrats added civil rights?

01:43:19.000 No, no, no.

01:43:20.000 That's not what I'm saying.

01:43:20.000 You believe the KKK Democrats, Robert Byrd, who just said nigger, nigger, nigger in 2001 on television?

01:43:25.000 That's not at all what I'm saying.

01:43:26.000 Okay.

01:43:26.000 You made it seem like the Republicans passed it because they're Christian.

01:43:30.000 And what I'm saying is...

01:43:30.000 No.

01:43:31.000 I said Christian Republicans.

01:43:31.000 No, I didn't.

01:43:32.000 You called them Christian Republicans.

01:43:34.000 Christian, yes.

01:43:35.000 And those liberals that were racist, whatever, those Democrats, were just as Christian as the Republicans.

01:43:42.000 Okay.

01:43:43.000 They were a minority.

01:43:46.000 No.

01:43:49.000 It's a wash.

01:43:50.000 It's not a wash.

01:43:51.000 They're a minority.

01:43:52.000 That's why they lost.

01:43:53.000 Okay?

01:43:54.000 If Christian Republicans weren't a majority, meaning more popular than any other point of view, it never would have happened.

01:44:02.000 If they were not a majority, it never would have been passed.

01:44:06.000 They had to have the more popular view in the entire country and the entire representative government for that to pass, by the way, by a pretty significant margin.

01:44:14.000 You're talking about Republicans versus Democrats on a decision, correct?

01:44:20.000 No.

01:44:21.000 That's not what I was talking about.

01:44:22.000 I said an idea that was abolished by Christian Republicans.

01:44:27.000 And fought just as hard by Christian.

01:44:30.000 Who lost.

01:44:31.000 The Christian thing is not the right word.

01:44:32.000 Who lost.

01:44:33.000 It wasn't non-Christian fighting them.

01:44:34.000 The point is a majority of Christians, a majority, it's like the stupid argument that people use when you go back, use the interracial thing and the flat earth thing.

01:44:42.000 Flat earth thing was never a Christian thing.

01:44:44.000 Flatter thing was never a Christian thing.

01:44:46.000 It was never a mainstream Christian thing.

01:44:48.000 Interracial marriage was never a mainstream Christian thing.

01:44:51.000 Just like when the early settlers came and they were basically getting married and having all kinds of children with Native Americans.

01:44:57.000 What was that?

01:45:01.000 So being against gay marriage is a majority.

01:45:03.000 No, what I'm talking about is someone being forced to violate their religious conscience.

01:45:07.000 Nobody's being asked to force their...

01:45:08.000 You don't have to get gay married if you don't want to.

01:45:10.000 And you don't have to...

01:45:12.000 If you're a priest, you don't have to get married people.

01:45:13.000 You absolutely do in other countries.

01:45:15.000 That's where it's going.

01:45:16.000 Denmark and Canada, you do.

01:45:17.000 It has a constitution.

01:45:18.000 That constitution gives the Supreme Court certain powers.

01:45:21.000 The Supreme Court used those powers.

01:45:22.000 And if she doesn't want to do her job...

01:45:24.000 What powers the Supreme Court has, Harrison?

01:45:27.000 What powers does the Supreme Court have?

01:45:29.000 Let's schoolhouse rocket.

01:45:30.000 Since you want to say you're wrong and not tell your facts, what powers does the Supreme Court have in regards to laws, Harrison?

01:45:35.000 School me.

01:45:35.000 I'm just a simpleton Republican who thinks he's entitled to his own facts.

01:45:38.000 There are three branches.

01:45:40.000 They are checks and balances.

01:45:41.000 They are allowed to rule.

01:45:43.000 Why are they not allowed to rule in that case?

01:45:44.000 Do the Supreme Court have the ability to create laws?

01:45:47.000 They have the ability to interpret the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, which according to the majority of the Supreme Court, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is sufficient grounds to protect the rights of gay people to marry.

01:46:01.000 That's not creating laws, and you could read the decision yourself if you don't seem to understand the basic English that they use.

01:46:07.000 Yeah, no, I did.

01:46:08.000 I did.

01:46:09.000 And even justices...

01:46:10.000 And you're allowed to disagree with it, but it's not them creating a law.

01:46:13.000 It's them interpreting...

01:46:14.000 No, it is.

01:46:14.000 It is.

01:46:15.000 And that's the thing.

01:46:15.000 It has nothing to do with the Constitution.

01:46:17.000 Again, my whole thing is I think states should absolutely have the right to, just like states have the right to determine divorce laws.

01:46:23.000 For example, I don't think that it's, I think it's morally reprehensible, and I think we would agree, that a woman can marry a guy, and I understand why the law was created to protect women right at one point, but a woman can marry a guy and cheat on him and leave him, leave with more than half, right, in California, and then live with a boyfriend using the marriage law, never getting married again, so they can collect alimony.

01:46:46.000 Wouldn't we both agree that's reprehensible?

01:46:48.000 Yeah, that's a misuse.

01:46:50.000 That's somebody abusing the system.

01:46:51.000 But that can happen in one state and not happen in another state.

01:46:54.000 Sure.

01:46:55.000 So even though I think it's morally reprehensible, I support that state's right to determine that law.

01:47:00.000 And when it comes to marriage, states have always had the right to determine those laws.

01:47:05.000 And in this case, we've decided that they don't.

01:47:08.000 That's the issue.

01:47:09.000 So my point is this.

01:47:09.000 Let me just clarify.

01:47:11.000 My only issue is this.

01:47:12.000 We have a disagreement.

01:47:12.000 No, no, hold on.

01:47:12.000 Let me clarify.

01:47:13.000 You're not allowed to mischaracterize my argument in our disagreement.

01:47:16.000 No, no, but you mischaracterized mine.

01:47:18.000 My point is this.

01:47:18.000 Here's my point.

01:47:20.000 You throw around the term hate speech earlier.

01:47:21.000 You throw around the term homophobia.

01:47:23.000 You talk about certain speech should maybe be allowed and certain speech isn't.

01:47:27.000 My point is this.

01:47:28.000 When you do that, there are arguments to be made on all sides.

01:47:31.000 There are arguments to be made on all sides that aren't reliant on hate or on racism, including against same-sex marriage.

01:47:40.000 Absolutely.

01:47:40.000 Just like I think that there are...

01:47:43.000 Personally, as a libertarian, and I get so much crap for this, I really think that the increased usage in marijuana is probably a bad thing because a lot of young Americans are smoking marijuana.

01:47:54.000 The more we learn what it does to the developing brain, it's probably pretty harmful.

01:47:58.000 But I also think states have the right to do that, and if you want to smoke up on your own house, go ahead and do it.

01:48:04.000 I think that's pretty consistent.

01:48:05.000 The struggle is with social justice where your leftism, where again, and from what you're saying, and if we're honest, if we rewind the tape, you start off with this idea that anyone like Kim Davis or anyone who was opposed to the worldview that you express, it must be coming from some kind of hate or discrimination.

01:48:23.000 That's not what I said about Kim Davis.

01:48:24.000 Feel free to rewind the tape.

01:48:25.000 Although I greatly suspect Kim, it's hard to...

01:48:28.000 I don't like her.

01:48:29.000 I think she's probably a bad person.

01:48:31.000 I think she is probably a bad person as well.

01:48:33.000 But I don't know.

01:48:35.000 Neither do I. And that's why I'm not saying with any assurance.

01:48:38.000 We started off this conversation where I said, are you using gay pejoratively?

01:48:42.000 And you said, yes.

01:48:43.000 No, I didn't.

01:48:44.000 Oh my God, you did.

01:48:45.000 Let me explain.

01:48:45.000 No, I didn't.

01:48:46.000 I'll give you the exact words.

01:48:47.000 As a matter of fact, right now we'll do it as a cutback.

01:48:49.000 You said, use it pejoratively.

01:48:51.000 I said, sure.

01:48:52.000 You said, sure.

01:48:53.000 In other words, move on.

01:48:56.000 In other words, I wasn't going to fight the semantic point there.

01:48:59.000 And then you said, I don't think that's appropriate.

01:49:01.000 I said, I think in comedy anything is appropriate.

01:49:03.000 So in that context, it's not going, yeah, call them a queer!

01:49:08.000 In that context, it's, okay?

01:49:10.000 Okay, I'll allow it.

01:49:12.000 You could redefine what the word sure means, but sure usually means, okay, I'll agree with you.

01:49:16.000 Sure.

01:49:17.000 If you wanted to say move on, you would have said the words move on.

01:49:19.000 No, I just said sure because I could see where you were coming in half-cocked, mad about the gay thing.

01:49:24.000 And I didn't want to get stuck on that point.

01:49:26.000 We did it now here later that I feel we've become bosom buddies.

01:49:28.000 I was being mad is that you admit that your article was poorly written and misstated a bunch of things.

01:49:34.000 No, I don't think it was poorly written.

01:49:37.000 If it was not poorly written, then why did you admit to all the inaccuracies in that article?

01:49:42.000 I said the inaccuracies, yeah, about you being gay and if a comedian was in quotations.

01:49:46.000 But that doesn't mean the article was poorly written.

01:49:49.000 I certainly don't think it's as poorly written as...

01:49:51.000 I don't think it's as...

01:49:52.000 I find any article that has at least some of your inaccuracies poorly written, but we have a different definition of poorly written then.

01:49:56.000 Yeah, actually, there actually are a bunch of hyperlinks in there, too.

01:49:59.000 There are none.

01:49:59.000 I have the article on my screen right now.

01:50:01.000 Yeah, there are hyperlinks there.

01:50:03.000 There are not.

01:50:04.000 I'll pull it up right now.

01:50:05.000 Do I need to send a screen cap to you?

01:50:07.000 Do you at least acknowledge here at the end of the day that...

01:50:12.000 The point to the article is you did something that was very safe.

01:50:15.000 Your comedy is very safe.

01:50:16.000 I've watched at least 30-something minutes of your comedy.

01:50:19.000 I've not seen anything personally that's risque.

01:50:21.000 I don't think you have to be risque to be a comedian, by the way.

01:50:23.000 I think Brian Regan, Jim Gaffigan, Norm are some of the best comedians out there.

01:50:27.000 They're not particularly risky.

01:50:28.000 Norm is not risky?

01:50:29.000 Are you kidding me?

01:50:30.000 Actually, if you look at his early days, it wasn't.

01:50:32.000 Now it's become risky.

01:50:33.000 As a matter of fact, Norm was as clean and corny as they came when he started.

01:50:36.000 Whoa!

01:50:37.000 Hold on.

01:50:38.000 Do you remember his ABC sitcom?

01:50:40.000 Yeah.

01:50:40.000 From back in the day?

01:50:41.000 Yeah.

01:50:41.000 No, I'm talking long before.

01:50:42.000 I'm talking about in Canada, back at Yuck Yucks.

01:50:44.000 I'm talking about when he started before he got SNL. You know, his bit there was, you know, I saw this here in the Toronto Star, you know, that this guy killed his whole family, chopped him up, you know, and put him in a duffel bag there.

01:50:55.000 And when I asked him, he said, because the devil told him to.

01:50:59.000 And I was just thinking there, you know, what if the devil took off his mask and said, hey, you know, it's me, Bob!

01:50:59.000 You know?

01:51:06.000 Oh, Bob, I got my family here in a duffel bag.

01:51:08.000 I think Norm has been pretty risky his whole career.

01:51:10.000 I mean, he said Blumpkin on national television.

01:51:14.000 Well, I've been following him, like, since I was a tween in Canada.

01:51:19.000 Back in SNL. I mean, he was, you know, he was not particularly dirty or risky back then.

01:51:25.000 I just think the thing about the words, first of all, there's nothing less edgy than talking about how edgy you are or how not edgy you are or whatever it is.

01:51:33.000 There's nothing less edgy than a discussion about edge.

01:51:35.000 The only thing less edgy is being a liberal comic in 2015, I would say.

01:51:40.000 I would say that, and I would stand by that.

01:51:42.000 I think it's very, very Mr.

01:51:44.000 I talk about a lot of topics, and especially when I'm maybe not in New York, but when I'm touring the country, there's a lot of pushback.

01:51:44.000 Rogers.

01:51:52.000 I've gotten beer bottles thrown at my head.

01:51:55.000 I'm not trying to defend myself.

01:51:56.000 I'm not trying to stand.

01:51:57.000 I don't give a shit if I'm brave or not.

01:51:58.000 Am I funny?

01:51:59.000 Am I making good points?

01:52:00.000 I talk about religion?

01:52:01.000 Sure.

01:52:02.000 I think it needs to be talked about still.

01:52:04.000 You talk about one religion.

01:52:07.000 I talk about more than one religion.

01:52:09.000 Do you talk about how silly Buddhism is?

01:52:11.000 Or Taoism?

01:52:12.000 Or do you talk about Hinduism?

01:52:13.000 I have to talk about every single religion if I want to talk about one religion.

01:52:15.000 No, I'm asking you any other religion outside of Christianity.

01:52:18.000 I talk about Islam and Judaism extensively in my set.

01:52:21.000 That's three religions total.

01:52:22.000 Because your joke about the Bible was theological.

01:52:25.000 What's your theological joke about Judaism?

01:52:27.000 I have so many jokes in my act about being Jewish.

01:52:30.000 No, but your theological joke about Judaism, about a theological joke taking a jab saying that it's a made-up religion.

01:52:36.000 I'm talking about the Old and New Testament together.

01:52:40.000 I'll let you give one.

01:52:42.000 I'm just saying, I mean, that's what Norm had a problem with.

01:52:45.000 When I'm making fun of the Bible, I'm including the Old and New Testament.

01:52:49.000 So by definition, it's Judeo-Christian.

01:52:52.000 Well, because earlier you said it wasn't even your book.

01:52:55.000 You said Matthews, and you made sure to delineate.

01:52:57.000 So now you're saying that would be included in a Jewish joke.

01:52:59.000 Yes, but I'm saying for that specific joke, we could talk about the fact of how inappropriate it was on multiple levels.

01:53:04.000 But all the Bible jokes are pretty clearly Judeo-Christian.

01:53:09.000 Okay.

01:53:09.000 That's two religions.

01:53:10.000 Yeah, I know what Judeo-Christian means.

01:53:14.000 Is that what you're going to try and do?

01:53:15.000 Do you know what pejorative means?

01:53:15.000 Do you know what Judeo-Christian means?

01:53:16.000 Do you really think I'm just some right-wing bumpkin who doesn't know?

01:53:20.000 That's not at all what I'm saying, but you keep twisting my words, so I have to make sure I'm being clear.

01:53:25.000 Well, you said Judeo-Christian is two words.

01:53:26.000 Because you haven't been clear with your answers.

01:53:28.000 Judeo-Christian is one word.

01:53:29.000 It's hyphenated, but that's besides the point.

01:53:31.000 We just said that's two religions.

01:53:32.000 Two religions, yes.

01:53:34.000 You just said two words.

01:53:36.000 It's almost as smart as your use of Matthews.

01:53:38.000 But I guess we'll defend that because of Urban Dictionary.

01:53:41.000 My point was this.

01:53:41.000 It's not Urban Dictionary.

01:53:42.000 You get a little snippy when you get backed up and you don't have an argument.

01:53:46.000 It's not me getting snippy.

01:53:47.000 It's that you want to question me for facts and your facts are wrong.

01:53:49.000 No, you brought none to the table at all.

01:53:52.000 You brought feelings.

01:53:54.000 You brought leftist feelings.

01:53:55.000 Well, you've never given me an answer as to why some speech should be allowable and some shouldn't.

01:54:00.000 You've never really given an answer beyond feelings.

01:54:02.000 I'm saying all speech should be allowed.

01:54:03.000 What's hate speech?

01:54:05.000 What is hate speech?

01:54:06.000 Yeah, because you used the term.

01:54:07.000 You've never defined it, and I've asked you to define it.

01:54:09.000 So you want to say, I don't bring facts.

01:54:10.000 At least I'm giving you definitive answers.

01:54:12.000 You threw out a term like hate speech where people can be jailed or banned from public speaking in Europe and Canada.

01:54:18.000 You better sure as hell define it, and you haven't.

01:54:21.000 What's hate speech?

01:54:23.000 I can give you the dictionary definition of it.

01:54:25.000 What should be allowed?

01:54:25.000 No, what's hate speech?

01:54:27.000 I'm not...

01:54:28.000 See, this is all about taking people out of context.

01:54:31.000 I'm not saying that...

01:54:32.000 We've been on here for an hour and a half and I'm not editing anything.

01:54:35.000 Well, people can rewind the tape and hear me very clearly explaining what you constantly are asking me to re-explain.

01:54:42.000 But hate speech is any kind of speech that can incite violence or prejudicial action.

01:54:47.000 I'm just reading the definition.

01:54:48.000 I'm not saying we should ban hate speech.

01:54:50.000 My point is comedians shouldn't pretend that they're hate speech.

01:54:57.000 I'll say it very clearly.

01:54:58.000 I'm going to be saying it in the most clearest way I can.

01:55:00.000 Okay, well just acknowledge that you haven't been very clear because even now you're not.

01:55:02.000 The only problem I have is that when somebody who is just...

01:55:05.000 I'm not saying we should be jailing people for hate speech.

01:55:10.000 But if you are just saying hate speech on stage, don't pretend what you're doing is comedy.

01:55:15.000 And I'm not going to protect you as a comedian from your straight-up hate speech.

01:55:19.000 Does that happen often on the stand-up comedy stage?

01:55:22.000 No.

01:55:22.000 That's why we talked about rough drafts.

01:55:24.000 That's my issue, though.

01:55:25.000 And that's, again, I've been accused of hate speech.

01:55:29.000 I know, but the point is the only people using hate speech as a term to prosecute free speech is the left.

01:55:35.000 And you leave that door open.

01:55:37.000 My point is this.

01:55:38.000 You've left the door open to what's allowable and what's not, and I've closed it and said it's all allowable.

01:55:42.000 That's our big issue.

01:55:44.000 You want the door open to banning speech, and I don't.

01:55:46.000 I'm saying it's all allowable, but don't try to parade your hate speech as comedy and then get upset when people say you shouldn't be in a comedy club because you're not a fucking comedian.

01:55:55.000 No, it's exactly, and it opens the door for you to go, see, this was hate speech, this guy wasn't funny.

01:55:55.000 Right.

01:55:59.000 So it opens the door.

01:56:01.000 So people can misuse their power.

01:56:03.000 And the left does it all the time.

01:56:05.000 And you did it right away.

01:56:06.000 You said he was booed.

01:56:07.000 And he didn't get the joke.

01:56:09.000 Just because people can misuse it doesn't mean it shouldn't be used ever.

01:56:14.000 People can misuse alcohol.

01:56:15.000 Yeah, no, as a matter of fact, I think so.

01:56:16.000 People misuse alcohol all the time.

01:56:18.000 Should it be banned?

01:56:19.000 Absolutely not.

01:56:20.000 Yeah, no, I actually would, I go completely on that side that it's all allowable.

01:56:26.000 And I think the comedy form, that's where I go.

01:56:28.000 You know, Jim Norton, I think, has made the most brilliant explanation on this ever, whereas, you know, with music and stuff, we give so much leeway.

01:56:33.000 And with comedy, you know, leftists really want to use things as a prosecutable offense.

01:56:38.000 I've seen it, and I've never seen it coming from the right.

01:56:40.000 I'm not trying to say that.

01:56:42.000 I'm trying to say...

01:56:44.000 Well, you'll never be the victim of it.

01:56:46.000 That is not true.

01:56:48.000 Yeah, you'll never be the victim of someone calling for your job or not being able to travel to countries because you've offended people.

01:56:52.000 Are you kidding me?

01:56:53.000 Yes.

01:56:54.000 You're kidding.

01:56:55.000 No, I'm serious.

01:56:57.000 You're just looking at the Bible issue, but there's more than enough.

01:57:01.000 Most of the comics that I'm friends with have had some kind of issue with that.

01:57:05.000 I'm talking about being on an actual list with armed security guards, having to travel with security detail, not being able to go to Dubai, not being able to go to Abu Dhabi, not being able to go to London because of speech that offends.

01:57:21.000 I don't think you'll ever experience that.

01:57:24.000 I think that's what Norm was saying.

01:57:25.000 I think that can only happen, really, if you make fun of Islam.

01:57:28.000 I think that's really the only case where that happens.

01:57:32.000 And that's why we included that quote in the article for context from Norm in the other interview where he talked about, he said, you know, if a guy got up, because they were asking about the set, and he said, if a guy got up and said, you should all die in the name of Allah, I would say it was brave.

01:57:46.000 If a guy got up and said...

01:57:49.000 I mean, maybe if it was in context, sure.

01:57:51.000 But if somebody seriously was like, somebody got up and said, Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, that wouldn't be funny.

01:57:56.000 Who gives a shit if you're brave if you're not funny?

01:57:58.000 No, but again, that's subjective.

01:57:59.000 And I think you're funny.

01:58:00.000 I think you're funny.

01:58:01.000 I think that joke was unfunny.

01:58:03.000 Norm said, Jesus Christ is our Lord.

01:58:05.000 He said, if a guy went up and said, Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, I'd say, damn, that guy's brave.

01:58:11.000 And then everybody else in the room would go, but not funny.

01:58:14.000 Yeah, but Roseanne was saying you were brave and funny, and Norm was taking issue with something that was clearly wrong.

01:58:19.000 She was saying I was brave because she knew I'd get pushback from people like you, and she was right.

01:58:23.000 No, she didn't get pushback from people like me.

01:58:25.000 I was pushing back on people getting mad and offended at Norm.

01:58:29.000 And I was pointing out the irony.

01:58:31.000 What you said raised no eyebrows.

01:58:34.000 What Norm said raised eyebrows.

01:58:36.000 That's the point.

01:58:37.000 Norm was more offensive than you.

01:58:38.000 Norm was more risky than you in what he said.

01:58:41.000 If I had done jokes about puppies, I would have gotten no comments from any side.

01:58:45.000 But if I do joke about religion, as you can look at my Twitter account, all I got was tweets.

01:58:50.000 I got some tweets in support, but the majority were hateful tweets by religious people who thought it was offensive to make fun of religion.

01:58:57.000 And I have to hide my wife in the basement with armed security guards.

01:58:59.000 So I guess we all have our struggles when we make fun of religion.

01:59:02.000 And you avoid one.

01:59:03.000 As you said, you avoid making fun of one.

01:59:05.000 You really want to turn this into a who's braver contest?

01:59:07.000 That's ridiculous.

01:59:08.000 No, I think it matters when you say, well, the only one is Islam, and you don't make fun of Islam, and Roseanne says it's brave.

01:59:13.000 It matters because she was praising you for being brave.

01:59:16.000 Yes, I didn't ask her to.

01:59:16.000 I'm not saying the only one.

01:59:18.000 I know.

01:59:19.000 I'm not blaming you.

01:59:20.000 I didn't say that you paraded yourself out as brave.

01:59:23.000 I said Roseanne said you were brave.

01:59:25.000 And Norm responded to that.

01:59:26.000 If you look at your listeners' comments to me when you posted that article.

01:59:30.000 I'm not responsible for that.

01:59:31.000 That's not fair.

01:59:32.000 It has nothing to do with if you're responsible for them or not.

01:59:32.000 No, no.

01:59:36.000 If bravery is doing a joke, knowing that you're going to get pushback, then it was brave.

01:59:42.000 You're saying that your pushback was more.

01:59:45.000 You didn't get pushback.

01:59:46.000 That's the whole issue.

01:59:47.000 You only got pushback once I talked about the pushback against Norm.

01:59:51.000 That's not true.

01:59:52.000 Look at the timeline, dude.

01:59:52.000 Look at Twitter.

01:59:54.000 That's why you said if I were brave, I'd have you on the show.

01:59:58.000 Did you go after CNN or ABC or NBC, CBS? They didn't go after me.

02:00:03.000 Exactly!

02:00:05.000 None of them!

02:00:06.000 So because of some blogger with a few million people, a few million people read me and it got you upset enough to want to come on this show because it was so abnormal for you.

02:00:17.000 And the fact that anybody went after me and they wouldn't have gone after...

02:00:19.000 Does anybody ever go after Gaffigan for Hot Pocket jokes?

02:00:22.000 No!

02:00:23.000 No, the whole point is no one went after you until I made a comment pointing out an irony.

02:00:29.000 You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.

02:00:31.000 You just said you didn't go after any of them.

02:00:33.000 You just said.

02:00:34.000 No mainstream outlet brought it up outside of Norma's crazy again.

02:00:38.000 That's where I read it.

02:00:39.000 Why did you feel the need, compelled, to challenge me?

02:00:44.000 This whole thing started again saying, if you're brave, Stephen, you'll have me on your show.

02:00:48.000 That's why this conversation took place.

02:00:51.000 And I allowed you to come on the show.

02:00:52.000 You've sent me 50 messages saying, don't edit me.

02:00:55.000 I don't want to do a pre-tape.

02:00:56.000 And I said, well, actually, I want to do a pre-tape so we can go on as long as you want.

02:00:59.000 So that there's no contextual editing and people can go and check all the sources.

02:01:04.000 You were the one who called out my bravery.

02:01:06.000 I'm the only one you targeted because it's abnormal.

02:01:10.000 That's not true.

02:01:11.000 Look at my Twitter history.

02:01:12.000 The first article I called out was from a liberal blog.

02:01:15.000 Why did you want to be on this program?

02:01:17.000 You just said they didn't go after you.

02:01:18.000 Why did you feel compelled to come on this program?

02:01:24.000 Because a lot of people wrote what I wrote.

02:01:26.000 I tweeted at basically everybody who tweeted at me with an audience.

02:01:30.000 I'm just happy to debate these things.

02:01:31.000 Okay, that's fair.

02:01:33.000 I respect the hustle.

02:01:34.000 That's all I'm doing.

02:01:35.000 But more importantly, I think you and I both respect open debate.

02:01:40.000 And I wanted there to be pushback.

02:01:43.000 I thought that article was very one-sided, and I think it was fair to have pushback.

02:01:46.000 It's like me saying, your comedy is one-sided.

02:01:46.000 It is one-sided.

02:01:49.000 Of course it is.

02:01:50.000 It's me, right?

02:01:51.000 It's louder with Crowder.

02:01:51.000 It's me.

02:01:52.000 It's a point of view.

02:01:54.000 Okay, if you want me to apologize, you're funny to have a debate.

02:01:56.000 No, I don't want you to apologize.

02:01:58.000 I don't want you to apologize.

02:01:59.000 But my point is, there's nothing wrong with being one-sided at all.

02:02:02.000 The context was, no, there's nothing wrong with being one-sided.

02:02:06.000 First of all, I'm in a way applauding what you did.

02:02:10.000 I think one of the main problems with this country, and something that you can find in the data, is that we've become a lot more radicalized over time.

02:02:19.000 People are much more extreme in their position.

02:02:21.000 And I think the way you combat that kind of extremism or radicalism is through healthy debate.

02:02:26.000 I don't agree with a lot of what you say, but I respect the right of you to say it.

02:02:30.000 And I think having intelligent debate Is important.

02:02:34.000 And representing both sides is important.

02:02:37.000 And when I found somebody who represented the other side, I wanted to have that debate.

02:02:42.000 And I think it's a testament to both of us and a good thing for us to have this kind of discussion.

02:02:46.000 Would you at least acknowledge the reason why was because it was an uncommon viewpoint and people weren't really talking about it?

02:02:53.000 The reason you noticed it was because there wasn't that kind of pushback until I talked about it and that made you go, oh, okay, I want to rebut this point.

02:03:01.000 Your pushback was late.

02:03:02.000 I'm sorry to say that.

02:03:03.000 Your article is...

02:03:04.000 Yeah, actually, matter of fact, we couldn't get it up on Hulu.

02:03:06.000 That's why we had to connect it to the interview.

02:03:08.000 Hulu had this, you can't download the video.

02:03:10.000 Right, but I'm saying I obviously couldn't see a draft of your article.

02:03:13.000 That article didn't go up until weeks after that.

02:03:16.000 I find the date of it.

02:03:17.000 I was receiving pushback.

02:03:18.000 It was a week and a half, yeah.

02:03:19.000 Then why didn't she go on their shows?

02:03:22.000 They didn't have shows.

02:03:23.000 But I debated almost everybody.

02:03:25.000 Okay, that's fair.

02:03:27.000 I'm not trying to be dishonest here.

02:03:29.000 No, they didn't have shows.

02:03:30.000 That's fine.

02:03:30.000 You have a show and you were willing to have me on your show.

02:03:33.000 People who just did it with tweets, I responded with tweets.

02:03:36.000 And people who did it with emails, I responded with emails.

02:03:39.000 Listen.

02:03:40.000 People responded by Facebook.

02:03:41.000 Twitter is full of assholes.

02:03:44.000 Of course it is.

02:03:45.000 I have no idea what those people said.

02:03:46.000 Of course it is.

02:03:47.000 But I can tell you that if I just did a joke about puppies, there would be zero assholes.

02:03:51.000 No, but I can tell you this.

02:03:52.000 If you did a joke about Islam, the kind of jokes I've done about Islam, you'd be off the show.

02:03:57.000 Guarantee it.

02:03:58.000 I don't know.

02:03:59.000 NBC approved.

02:04:01.000 I don't know if that's true.

02:04:02.000 And I think if you're being honest, you would bet that way.

02:04:04.000 If a gun to your head, you have to bet.

02:04:06.000 If you made a joke toward Islam, that was as rough as you made toward the Bible and Christians.

02:04:10.000 Do you believe for a second that that wouldn't be a national story or you would be off that show?

02:04:14.000 Honestly, if someone holds a gun to your head, you have to bet.

02:04:16.000 I think Charlie Hebdo and South Park both proved that.

02:04:19.000 I think that would be accurate.

02:04:21.000 I mean, if you go watch the videos I've done, they're not stand-up.

02:04:25.000 They're online videos, but they're taken from stand-up bits.

02:04:27.000 My point is also that...

02:04:29.000 Millions of plays, quoting the Quran and acting it out.

02:04:32.000 If I'm on NBC, though, and I know that they're...

02:04:35.000 My point is just because I can't do one thing doesn't mean I shouldn't do anything else.

02:04:38.000 No, that's the whole point, though.

02:04:39.000 You can do that on NBC, and I think that was Norm's point.

02:04:42.000 It's not risky.

02:04:43.000 You can make fun of Christians.

02:04:45.000 If you make fun of Islam, you lose your job.

02:04:45.000 It's fine.

02:04:47.000 And that was the point Norm was making, and I still agree with it.

02:04:50.000 Well, I don't know if you would lose your job.

02:04:51.000 I mean, I think the Charlie Hebdo thing is a good example of, they didn't lose their jobs.

02:04:56.000 They were attacked, and that was awful.

02:04:58.000 But not only did they not lose their jobs, but their magazine is more popular than ever.

02:05:01.000 You're talking about in France, though.

02:05:02.000 It's very different.

02:05:03.000 I mean, internationally.

02:05:04.000 People bought...

02:05:05.000 I have a copy of their...

02:05:06.000 Well, no.

02:05:08.000 A perfect example is you talk about South Park.

02:05:09.000 They wouldn't air the picture of Muhammad.

02:05:12.000 Pictures of Jesus for years and years and years.

02:05:14.000 No picture of Muhammad.

02:05:16.000 Sure.

02:05:16.000 But my point is, just because they weren't able to get that through, does that mean they should stop making fun of Christianity too?

02:05:24.000 But my point is, one is risky and one isn't.

02:05:24.000 No.

02:05:27.000 And that was Norm's point.

02:05:28.000 And I still agree with that.

02:05:29.000 One is riskier.

02:05:29.000 No, one is risky and one's not.

02:05:32.000 I mean, I would say the fact that there were so many people sent my way.

02:05:36.000 The biggest risk you take is someone like me who writes a piece that gets you so upset you want to call them out on Twitter.

02:05:41.000 Would you argue that...

02:05:42.000 But would you think Hot Pockets is...

02:05:46.000 Is that not less risky than a Bible joke?

02:05:51.000 I think they're equivalent.

02:05:52.000 Really?

02:05:53.000 And as a matter of fact, I think you're more likely to get instantaneous praise from people like Roseanne and executives for making fun of the Bible.

02:06:00.000 That might be true, but I do think that when you're making fun of somebody's...

02:06:06.000 It's somebody's religious beliefs that are very deeply held.

02:06:09.000 That is a riskier proposition than being like, hot pockets are hot.

02:06:13.000 I don't think so in the entertainment industry.

02:06:14.000 I mean, you look at how...

02:06:15.000 And this is not me dissing Jim Gaffigan.

02:06:16.000 I want to be clear.

02:06:16.000 No, Jim Gaffigan is great.

02:06:18.000 As a matter of fact, Jim Gaffigan proved to me...

02:06:21.000 Remember when the improv was still around in New York, close to Times Square?

02:06:24.000 Jim Gaffigan proved to me I was 18 years old.

02:06:27.000 Tony Camacho used to book...

02:06:27.000 And I was there.

02:06:28.000 Remember the improv had the upstairs room that was like a cafe?

02:06:31.000 Yeah.

02:06:31.000 It was just a horrible room, that room.

02:06:34.000 And I lost my glasses in that room.

02:06:37.000 I used to have a bit about Clark Kent and I left him in the stool and it was just stolen.

02:06:40.000 Those rooms eat up your items.

02:06:41.000 Yeah, I know.

02:06:42.000 But I remember Jim Gaffigan went in.

02:06:44.000 This is the improv.

02:06:44.000 This is an old comedy.

02:06:45.000 And I was just kind of auditioning to do it.

02:06:47.000 And Jim Gaffigan is a little picky, you know, as far as where he would do his sets.

02:06:51.000 Like he would look at the room.

02:06:52.000 Okay, I'll go up.

02:06:52.000 And he's Jim Gaffigan.

02:06:53.000 He's one of the best comedians ever.

02:06:54.000 Who's going to tell him differently?

02:06:55.000 And he went up and he didn't do very well.

02:06:58.000 And I thought, like, oh, crap, I'm gonna bomb.

02:07:00.000 And I went up, and I did...

02:07:02.000 Now, I'm not saying this as a self-praise, because it wasn't good.

02:07:05.000 It was not very good stand-up.

02:07:07.000 As a matter of fact, I was trying out new stuff, stuff that I don't even do, and it killed.

02:07:11.000 And I realized it was, like, a college...

02:07:13.000 It was riskier for him to do clean stuff on that show than it was to do...

02:07:16.000 No, I wasn't dirty.

02:07:17.000 I wasn't dirty.

02:07:18.000 But it was very sort of college humor-esque.

02:07:18.000 Oh, okay, okay.

02:07:21.000 And it turns out there was like some kind of a college, or maybe it was even like a high school graduation.

02:07:27.000 I don't know, but the kids were like my age.

02:07:28.000 And I remember going like, because I knew, I'm like, I'm nowhere near the comic Jim Gaffigan is.

02:07:33.000 And then he didn't get a peep, and I'm like, I know he's a way better comic.

02:07:37.000 And I said, you know what?

02:07:38.000 That's bullshit.

02:07:39.000 Sometimes it is the audience.

02:07:40.000 This is a bad audience.

02:07:41.000 Of course, absolutely.

02:07:42.000 Because I was like, my set was not very good, and his was great.

02:07:44.000 And the audience, you know, it would have been like stupid little humor, like...

02:07:47.000 When I saw they were young, I started making jokes about MTV or stuff like that, and it worked.

02:07:54.000 No, I think he's great.

02:07:55.000 I do think you actually get way more leeway, and I do think you get points right off the front in the entertainment industry for taking a liberal point of view.

02:08:06.000 Roseanne is suing her daughter because of some conservative podcast thing.

02:08:09.000 I guess I would agree with you there.

02:08:12.000 I'm not disagreeing with you.

02:08:13.000 My point is, because that is my point of view, I'm not going to do jokes about the opposite point of view because that's not my point of view.

02:08:19.000 No, I understand.

02:08:20.000 And no one should.

02:08:21.000 But my point, and I think we're finally bringing this...

02:08:23.000 I have no choice but to do jokes from that perspective because that's my perspective.

02:08:26.000 Is it the more acceptable perspective to this part of the industry?

02:08:30.000 Potentially, sure.

02:08:31.000 I think it's an encouraged perspective.

02:08:33.000 And here's my...

02:08:34.000 Sure.

02:08:34.000 And let's end on this because it's going long.

02:08:35.000 And because it's my point of view, am I happy that it's the encouraged one?

02:08:39.000 That's a great position to be in.

02:08:39.000 Absolutely.

02:08:41.000 But I think we both agree.

02:08:43.000 Well, I watched George Bush.

02:08:44.000 To give you an idea.

02:08:45.000 George Bush, sorry.

02:08:46.000 I watched Norm Macdonald.

02:08:47.000 I'm getting tired.

02:08:48.000 No one's listening anymore.

02:08:49.000 And by the way, listen.

02:08:50.000 I hope you genuinely...

02:08:51.000 Can we leave an Easter egg for anybody who listened this far?

02:08:54.000 We just say something crazy.

02:08:55.000 Just call everyone a c***?

02:08:57.000 We just say something like, and then I thought hippopotamuses had the biggest dicks.

02:09:01.000 And they're like, what?

02:09:02.000 I don't know.

02:09:03.000 I didn't get that far.

02:09:04.000 Genuinely, I'm glad you came on and I want to have you back on the show.

02:09:07.000 I think this kind of conversation is great.

02:09:08.000 And I think the too long didn't read, you know, the TLDR. The what?

02:09:08.000 Yes.

02:09:13.000 On Reddit, they have this thing, it's TL colon DR, too long didn't read.

02:09:16.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:09:18.000 So if they haven't read it, if they forward it to the end.

02:09:20.000 Right, yeah.

02:09:22.000 My point is just, I will defend the right for comedians to say anything they want to say.

02:09:26.000 Are you accountable for what you say?

02:09:29.000 Absolutely.

02:09:29.000 If you say something really hateful, you should be accountable for it.

02:09:33.000 Do people try to hold people who are not being hateful accountable for being so-called hateful when they're not?

02:09:38.000 Well, and that's what's important.

02:09:40.000 Absolutely.

02:09:40.000 I agree.

02:09:42.000 And let me give you some context here that you may not know.

02:09:44.000 I don't know if you've ever watched Norm live.

02:09:49.000 I'm a huge fan of Norm.

02:09:50.000 I think that's what's so funny.

02:09:51.000 I'm a huge fan of Norm.

02:09:53.000 I love it.

02:09:54.000 Well, you've said that.

02:09:55.000 And I take your word on that.

02:09:57.000 We're having coffee, supposedly, which would be kind of fun.

02:10:02.000 Yeah.

02:10:03.000 And I do want you to come back on when we're not talking about this, just even other issues because I think you're an intelligent guy.

02:10:08.000 Yeah, I would love that.

02:10:09.000 Norm, I remember he was doing a show and I saw him.

02:10:12.000 I can't remember where it was.

02:10:13.000 It might have been Montreal.

02:10:16.000 And he had some bit where all he said was a throwaway.

02:10:19.000 He said, yeah, you know, I really, I like George Bush there.

02:10:22.000 And then people started booing him.

02:10:24.000 Yeah, that sucks.

02:10:25.000 No, I hate that.

02:10:26.000 He said, ah, fuck you, I'm rich, I don't care.

02:10:28.000 And he kept going.

02:10:29.000 I love that.

02:10:30.000 People walked out on him.

02:10:31.000 No, I hate that they booed him.

02:10:32.000 I know, but here's my point, though.

02:10:33.000 So coming from that, where all he said was he likes George Bush and he gets booed, you go up and I think you're, listen, I'm not at all attacking you for it, but you go up and your comments are deliberately aimed toward belittling the Bible and Christians who believe it's a book.

02:10:46.000 And people cheer, right?

02:10:46.000 Absolutely.

02:10:49.000 So one is, make fun of Christians.

02:10:51.000 No, they didn't cheer in Lynchburg, Virginia, I can tell you that.

02:10:54.000 Oh, that's where the Bob Evans thing happened!

02:10:56.000 No!

02:10:57.000 I swear to God!

02:10:58.000 I swear to God!

02:10:59.000 Goddammit, that town!

02:11:00.000 It was Lynchburg, Virginia!

02:11:02.000 And I got snowed into Lynchburg, Virginia for three days.

02:11:06.000 There was no airport.

02:11:07.000 I was like, anyways, I swear to you, that's absolutely true.

02:11:09.000 By the way, did you go to Lynchburg Airport?

02:11:11.000 Yeah, I did, but then I had to go to another one, whichever the closest one is.

02:11:14.000 Yeah, you fly to Charlottesville, I think, or Charlotte.

02:11:16.000 But the best part about the airport, and somebody warned me about this, and I only bring it up because I think you'll find it hilarious, they go, the guy, you know the people that, like, they process your ticket?

02:11:24.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:11:25.000 Somebody's like, just so you know, everybody does everything.

02:11:28.000 So the woman processed my ticket, I went through security, and they put on an orange vest and were putting the bags in the plane.

02:11:34.000 They literally, like, they are every job in the airport because it's so small.

02:11:38.000 How many hat comedians do you want to bet?

02:11:40.000 It's the most adorable, hilarious thing in the world.

02:11:40.000 How many hat comedians do you want to bet go in there and go, hey, what's up with your airport?

02:11:44.000 It's the people doing all the same stuff.

02:11:47.000 But it was the most adorable thing I've ever seen.

02:11:49.000 Yeah, I had to go somewhere else.

02:11:50.000 I don't know if you saw that.

02:11:51.000 They're like these two elderly people and they were just like lugging your backside.

02:11:54.000 Did you ever see the flex they call it?

02:11:56.000 It's like a fake snowboard hill up there in Lynchburg.

02:11:59.000 No, I didn't get to see that.

02:12:00.000 That was like their big attraction because I was there and it was Liberty University was the first time they did a stand-up show.

02:12:04.000 I did a show in stand-up, and it was actually at, like, they were like, well, let's do the lounge, because it wasn't going to be as big.

02:12:09.000 And then the lounge was actually, people were jumping, and it wasn't like, I mean, I have some name recognition, not huge, and within certain circles, and I have a niche following.

02:12:18.000 It was, like, fire capacity packed.

02:12:21.000 That's great.

02:12:22.000 I offended them wildly.

02:12:24.000 I had some bits.

02:12:25.000 That's the problem.

02:12:26.000 As a conservative Christian, I don't hold myself out as an example at all.

02:12:30.000 I'm not a Christian comedian at all.

02:12:32.000 I'm a comedian who happens to be a Christian and conservative.

02:12:35.000 I'd say about 75% of my set is about silly, childish things, and then 30% is political.

02:12:43.000 I would just say that it would be...

02:12:44.000 I would agree that if you and I were doing two shows, one in New York and one in...

02:12:50.000 They'd be different.

02:12:51.000 Somewhere else, who's braver for doing the material that they always do will change.

02:12:57.000 I think.

02:12:58.000 Except for the Islam thing.

02:13:00.000 That never changes.

02:13:00.000 Not that.

02:13:01.000 That might never change.

02:13:02.000 And listen, I'll tell you what.

02:13:03.000 I ruined...

02:13:04.000 It took...

02:13:06.000 And thank you because now I'm on the list.

02:13:07.000 So that's great.

02:13:08.000 I will tell you this.

02:13:08.000 Yeah.

02:13:09.000 It took away something from me that I love.

02:13:12.000 I mean, I literally can't...

02:13:13.000 I can't go on a stage in general anymore at all.

02:13:13.000 No, that's fucked up.

02:13:16.000 I mean, I can't...

02:13:17.000 I literally...

02:13:18.000 Literally, if you go to Care, if you Google Stephen Crowder Islam, you will see some stuff.

02:13:18.000 And it sounds like paranoia.

02:13:23.000 It's pretty serious.

02:13:24.000 I can imagine.

02:13:25.000 To the point where I was on stage and I just...

02:13:27.000 Because you can't see out.

02:13:29.000 And I was so paranoid and so scared.

02:13:32.000 I just couldn't enjoy it anymore.

02:13:33.000 I was like, listen, we've got to have security here.

02:13:35.000 Especially when we had one guy who just- This is like people who do- I just saw a documentary on this.

02:13:39.000 The only reason I bring it up is people who do abortion clinics and they murder- Oh, come on.

02:13:44.000 That's such single digit numbers.

02:13:46.000 Literally, you can count in one hand the amount of times that's ever- Absolutely.

02:13:48.000 No, no, I'm not equating the two in terms of severity, but I'm just saying people kill in the name of extreme versions of all religions are not really...

02:13:56.000 Well, it's not the same, and that's the whole bit that I do.

02:13:59.000 See, I find that very interesting.

02:14:01.000 Well, here's why.

02:14:02.000 I don't say, yeah, all Christians are imperfect, right?

02:14:06.000 But I think if you talk about what's the most extreme version of Christianity is Jesus.

02:14:11.000 If everyone acted like Jesus, he probably wouldn't be doing this podcast.

02:14:13.000 He'd probably feel a little awkward because he's such a nice guy, although he did drink a lot.

02:14:18.000 Muhammad did beat, rape women, behead, call for the deaths of Christians and Jews.

02:14:23.000 He did those things himself.

02:14:25.000 So it's not about comparing Christians and Muslims, but comparing Jesus versus Muhammad, and it's a very different jumping off point.

02:14:30.000 That's a tough one.

02:14:31.000 That's definitely a tough one to get.

02:14:33.000 It was Muhammad's last words.

02:14:34.000 We're calling for the death of...

02:14:35.000 I'm going to send you my Islam video, and you may like it, you may not.

02:14:38.000 It sounds great.

02:14:40.000 It has a few million plays, and more...

02:14:44.000 It sounds great, but if you're Muslim and listening, I hate it so much.

02:14:47.000 Yes, exactly.

02:14:49.000 Well, what's funny is that's a perfect example, right?

02:14:50.000 So TalkIslam takes it and rebuts it.

02:14:53.000 Like, yeah, is it true?

02:14:54.000 Yeah, but of course, the Three Stooges routine with Muhammad beating his little wife, that's not accurate.

02:14:59.000 So TalkIslam, the world's biggest Islamic non-profit, and you don't get this with Christians because they can separate it and they might be like, don't go see this movie.

02:15:07.000 TalkIslam, one of the biggest, I don't know, some kind of non-profit, I don't even know who this guy is, rebuts it.

02:15:12.000 And so to the point I have to go on this show and be like, okay, point by point why he's inaccurate.

02:15:16.000 As a Canadian, I don't want to have to do that.

02:15:18.000 But I've been sucked into it because all of a sudden people are treating me like a scholar on Islam for dressing up in an outfit that they claim to be racist.

02:15:27.000 I guess so.

02:15:28.000 You know, brown face, unibrow, turban.

02:15:30.000 I did it.

02:15:31.000 What am I going to do?

02:15:31.000 I don't get it.

02:15:32.000 Apologize for it?

02:15:33.000 Anyways, it's changed my life.

02:15:34.000 The funniest thing, one of the funniest things I ever saw about that.

02:15:37.000 I've ever seen the Onion thing called No One Murdered Because of This Image.

02:15:40.000 I don't know.

02:16:02.000 No one was murdered.

02:16:14.000 And it came out right after Charlie Hebdo.

02:16:16.000 And I thought it was a really, I think that's exactly what, it's another comedic take on the same line of what you were trying to do with your bit as well.

02:16:24.000 Well, okay.

02:16:24.000 Right.

02:16:25.000 I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

02:16:26.000 No, I agree with you.

02:16:27.000 Unless you're Muslim and then I hate you.

02:16:29.000 Yes, exactly.

02:16:30.000 And I defend it to the death.

02:16:32.000 Yes, exactly.

02:16:33.000 I take away the death part.

02:16:33.000 Not the death.

02:16:34.000 Well, that's the thing with Norm.

02:16:36.000 My point is, you know, taking that in context, people walking out because it was George Bush comment, you know, people have been like, I can't believe you're a Christian, you know, that, and then you getting praised by Roseanne for what you did, he was going, oh, no, no, no, no, no.

02:16:49.000 Setting that straight.

02:16:50.000 And I still agree with that.

02:16:52.000 I still think he's right about that.

02:16:53.000 I think a lot of people, though, took it as an opportunity to take potshots at the joke structure or the joke writing.

02:16:58.000 And honestly, for me, I don't care what names you call me, but as a comedian, it's like, our jokes are our babies.

02:17:06.000 So it was like, you could go after me, but don't go after my jokes, if that makes sense.

02:17:10.000 Yeah.

02:17:11.000 Or after my joke writing.

02:17:13.000 Yes.

02:17:13.000 I go after it in the idea, and in a sense, I was forced to go after it because of the pushback from the other way, where people were saying, you know, Norm Macdonald...

02:17:19.000 The article was from...

02:17:20.000 I don't know if it was Huffo or it was Washington Post, one of those.

02:17:25.000 It was like, Norm Macdonald certainly provided some interest with his nonsensical...

02:17:30.000 And actually, regardless...

02:17:31.000 Well, here's the thing, though...

02:17:32.000 He's the most helpful judge there.

02:17:34.000 He is sort of helpful, although I will say...

02:17:37.000 Obviously, you're seeing a very highly edited version.

02:17:40.000 He was pretty...

02:17:42.000 I don't know if I'm speaking out of school but he was pretty incomprehensible for a lot of people.

02:17:49.000 That's practiced.

02:17:53.000 When you don't understand what Norm is saying, Norm doesn't want you to understand what he's saying.

02:17:58.000 I disagreed with his criticism of the joke structure in terms of the J.K. Rowling part.

02:18:04.000 I get why he said he didn't think it was brave.

02:18:07.000 And I could totally sympathize with his point of view.

02:18:09.000 I totally get where he's coming from.

02:18:10.000 I didn't think it was incomprehensible.

02:18:12.000 I think he was perfectly clear and his opinion is perfectly valid.

02:18:16.000 The only part I disagreed with, honestly, was the part where he said J.K. Rowling was a Christian.

02:18:20.000 He didn't get why he used Harry Potter in the comparison.

02:18:23.000 Specifically that book.

02:18:25.000 I understand where you're coming from.

02:18:27.000 That's why, if you notice the piece, I didn't talk about that part as much.

02:18:31.000 I think the reason he felt the need to do that is because otherwise...

02:18:33.000 I'm sorry to keep interrupting.

02:18:35.000 I apologize.

02:18:35.000 I know that's super annoying.

02:18:37.000 If you read that article, and again, you've already acknowledged that perhaps there were some quotes and all that kind of stuff.

02:18:43.000 Well, the gay thing, I was wrong if you're not gay.

02:18:46.000 Like I said, I fully own that.

02:18:47.000 It attacked me as a comedian, and my point was, you could disagree with my joke, or you could even disagree with whether it was brave or not, but I think I'm a funny comedian.

02:18:58.000 I think it came across on the clip, and that wasn't as much.

02:19:00.000 I think you're a funny comedian.

02:19:01.000 I think your material is better than that joke.

02:19:04.000 And again, you know, that's what I've always...

02:19:06.000 It's not just due to one joke.

02:19:07.000 There was a set there.

02:19:08.000 Yeah, and that's one thing I realized afterward.

02:19:10.000 I was like, okay.

02:19:11.000 And you know what?

02:19:11.000 That's why, honestly, I hated the...

02:19:13.000 When I was in the Just for Laughs at the Homegrown Festival.

02:19:15.000 Yeah.

02:19:16.000 And people, like, it's literally one person from each province you get in.

02:19:16.000 And that was...

02:19:21.000 And I was competing.

02:19:21.000 At this point, I was young.

02:19:22.000 I was really young.

02:19:23.000 And the guy who won it was a guy who had been doing it for 15 years and already had his own basically CTV specials, like an HBO special.

02:19:30.000 And I've just always thought that putting comedians in a competition was antithetical to what comedy is.

02:19:35.000 I get the exposure.

02:19:36.000 Absolutely.

02:19:37.000 I get the exposure part.

02:19:38.000 Absolutely.

02:19:39.000 But it's like...

02:19:40.000 And actually, my friend actually went pretty far two seasons ago, Deanne Smith.

02:19:44.000 You may or may not have rendered a little lesbian from Montreal, bowl cut.

02:19:48.000 And funnily enough, you know, she's short lesbian.

02:19:50.000 And she actually helped me when I was really depressed in my early 20s.

02:19:54.000 And I used to have her open up for me at shows.

02:19:57.000 And this is even when I would develop a following and people knew I was kind of more right wing.

02:20:01.000 Why are you having this little lesbian open up for you who's like clearly very liberal?

02:20:04.000 And I just thought she was funny.

02:20:06.000 Right.

02:20:07.000 But...

02:20:09.000 I understand because I've been attacked a lot that way, especially since I don't do stand-up much anymore because of the way my life's changed.

02:20:16.000 Same with that Nicole Arbor, whatever you're talking about.

02:20:19.000 Are you happier, by the way?

02:20:20.000 I feel like everybody I know who stopped doing stand-up is happier.

02:20:23.000 I haven't stopped doing stand-up, actually.

02:20:25.000 I just don't do the clubs and the colleges.

02:20:28.000 I'll still do it maybe a couple times a month, but I get to go.

02:20:32.000 So you're halfway happier?

02:20:33.000 I'll tell you what.

02:20:34.000 For me, the anxiety actually came from Like I said, being on stage, not feeling – it was always – I was always anxious, not feeling safe, feeling very exposed, especially after – when you're in the front page of Huffington Post.

02:20:49.000 And at this point, I was with Fox News when I was 21 years old.

02:20:53.000 I was raised in Canada where it didn't exist.

02:20:56.000 So I was brought in because I was just – I mean, listen, you're going to talk about risky.

02:21:00.000 It was such an anomaly, this 21-year-old kid who is doing bits about Islam and doing bits about whoever it was, Clintons or making fun of liberals and hippies.

02:21:10.000 No one else was doing it.

02:21:13.000 That's how I got pulled into Fox News.

02:21:15.000 So I didn't really expect to do what I did.

02:21:18.000 It just sort of happened.

02:21:19.000 And they didn't really know what they wanted to do with me.

02:21:21.000 At that point, CNN came calling and MSNBC. They just knew they didn't want anyone else to have me.

02:21:25.000 So I was there for four and a half years with an exclusive contract.

02:21:28.000 And I would just kind of appear on panels.

02:21:30.000 I did some sub-hosting.

02:21:32.000 Like for Red Eye, I filled in.

02:21:34.000 Or I would do co-hosting panels.

02:21:37.000 It was never really me.

02:21:39.000 And stand-up became...

02:21:42.000 Completely unfun, because I always had to answer for it as a conservative, and I was really mad that leftists didn't.

02:21:49.000 And I knew I was never going to get booked ever on Comedy Central or on any of that stuff at that point, because unlike a Nick DiPaolo, or a good example is Gary Sinise, Clint Eastwood, John Voight, who were In the closet, conservatives.

02:22:03.000 And then when you have screw you money, you can come out.

02:22:05.000 That's kind of Nick DiPaolo.

02:22:07.000 If you look at his earliest, he was...

02:22:08.000 You could kind of tell, but he wasn't open about it.

02:22:10.000 I mean, they've had a tough crowd.

02:22:11.000 He was already pretty conservative.

02:22:13.000 Oh, now we're getting some buzz coming in.

02:22:15.000 He was more inherently conservative, but he wasn't sort of claiming...

02:22:18.000 He usually fought the liberal...

02:22:19.000 He was always the...

02:22:21.000 Anybody who was fighting for the liberal point of view, he was usually on the opposite side.

02:22:23.000 Well, back then you could, though, and that's my point.

02:22:25.000 Back then you could more...

02:22:27.000 I mean, if you look at Joe Rogan.

02:22:28.000 Yeah, I think that speaks again to how polarized society, how we are.

02:22:32.000 But I think that's much more so with leftists.

02:22:34.000 Again, because I would have liberals open up.

02:22:36.000 Fox News, people can condemn it all they want.

02:22:37.000 Fox News has far more conservatives than MSNBC has.

02:22:41.000 I mean, you know, you have right away in any show, you're constantly having leftists on.

02:22:44.000 Am I saying it's fair and balanced?

02:22:46.000 But they actually make an effort to bring people on with a different point of view.

02:22:46.000 No.

02:22:49.000 So what I will say this is, for me, there was so much more with stand-up media.

02:22:54.000 That gave me so much anxiety that it was just really cloudy-headed.

02:22:59.000 I wasn't going up and just doing stand-up anymore.

02:23:01.000 Is this going to get back?

02:23:01.000 I'm going, well, hold on.

02:23:02.000 Am I going to have to answer for this?

02:23:05.000 And I don't know how to explain it.

02:23:08.000 And it sort of happened with this show, actually, at one point recently.

02:23:11.000 We had a producer.

02:23:12.000 We had this fallout.

02:23:13.000 And this is whether you believe in God or not.

02:23:15.000 I do believe in good and evil.

02:23:17.000 And I do believe probably one of the most powerful things...

02:23:21.000 What evil can do is take something you love and use it against you and turn it into something you hate.

02:23:28.000 And that's what happened with me in stand-up for a while.

02:23:31.000 I hated it so much that I thought I'm never going to do it again.

02:23:34.000 And then when I left to say, you know what, I'm just going to do my own thing.

02:23:37.000 I'm not going to be involved with traditional media.

02:23:38.000 I'm not going to have to answer for anyone but myself.

02:23:42.000 It changed again.

02:23:43.000 I'm not doing it a ton again because of the safety issues a couple times a month and private shows.

02:23:48.000 But...

02:23:49.000 Yeah, I will say for me, so for me it was a lot happier when I did less stand-up.

02:23:55.000 It was more so that then, okay, I was done with sort of the traditional media outlets.

02:23:59.000 I was really unhappy in New York doing that.

02:24:01.000 I mean, to give you an idea, I was in New York.

02:24:03.000 I don't do drugs.

02:24:05.000 I don't want to say that's a self-phrase, but I'm a comedian in New York City.

02:24:09.000 What am I going to do?

02:24:10.000 I think there's a lot more alcohol than drugs, but there's some drug use.

02:24:13.000 Yeah, well, and I don't really drink that much either.

02:24:15.000 So I'm in New York, and I was with Fox News, and I would go in and be like, okay, I do a panel a few times a week.

02:24:21.000 And, you know, at that point, I wasn't really doing a lot of stand-up in New York, because I was still really pretty anxious.

02:24:25.000 I mean, I had a guy come up and try and hit me in the subway, just because he recognized me.

02:24:28.000 Like, literally tried to just pit me.

02:24:30.000 So I did jiu-jitsu, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which you probably know Joe Rogan.

02:24:34.000 I did it like six, I did it six, seven times a week.

02:24:39.000 Twice a day.

02:24:40.000 Two-hour classes.

02:24:41.000 Because I just had to fill my time with something that was not work-related.

02:24:46.000 And stand-up was just sort of, to clarify, sorry, I'm kind of working through something on my own, but to clarify, it was all sort of put in that pile of stuff that I had to do at that point.

02:24:54.000 And when I piecemealed and said, you know what, I don't have to do this, stand-up sort of came back like an old friend, like, oh, wow, I actually really liked this at one point.

02:25:01.000 Yeah, for me, it's what, you know, everything is in service of stand-up.

02:25:04.000 That's...

02:25:06.000 There's nothing better.

02:25:07.000 It doesn't matter if drugs or not.

02:25:08.000 That's the best drug, is being on stage and doing...

02:25:12.000 I think of Artie Lang's line, have you tried heroin?

02:25:15.000 Right.

02:25:15.000 It's not even close.

02:25:17.000 I started as an actor, you know, I was 12.

02:25:19.000 So the kids show Arthur, I don't know if you know that cartoon on PBS. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:25:23.000 I was the brain.

02:25:24.000 That's how I started.

02:25:25.000 So I missed a lot of school.

02:25:27.000 I was doing acting and I thought I could see it happening with the unions in Quebec.

02:25:31.000 I was like, this isn't going to be around a long time.

02:25:33.000 So I started writing stand-up at 14.

02:25:35.000 There you go.

02:25:35.000 But I wasn't able to get into the bars until I kind of ficked it at 17.

02:25:39.000 It's tough.

02:25:40.000 I've seen younger comics and it's tough because they're trying to relate to an audience.

02:25:43.000 And you can either try to speak to their level, which you're not because you're 14 and you have different issues than they do.

02:25:49.000 Or you can be like, this is what it's like to be 14 years old and hope that they're like, oh, this is interesting.

02:25:53.000 I've never heard that.

02:25:54.000 Right.

02:25:54.000 Well, when you're 17 and you go up and you're ending your set on the N-word talking about- That's tough.

02:25:58.000 That's really tough.

02:25:59.000 And that's how I, you know, that was how it happened.

02:26:01.000 But for me, it was more so acting and stand-up was kind of, it was very, yours is very joke, jokey.

02:26:07.000 You write jokes.

02:26:08.000 Mine was very performance-based as far as, you know, kind of characters and situations.

02:26:13.000 And so contextually, it's more important.

02:26:16.000 A joke is relatively short.

02:26:18.000 You know, like Mitch Hedberg, you're almost never going to take that guy out of context.

02:26:21.000 Right.

02:26:22.000 Although I do think, it depends how you quote it.

02:26:24.000 Like, if you write out my joke sometimes and you miss, the emphasis is really important.

02:26:29.000 That's true.

02:26:29.000 Well, you know, it's funny.

02:26:30.000 We have a writer, and then I'll let you go to give you an idea.

02:26:32.000 You know, I'm on the conservative side, but there are no other comedians, right?

02:26:34.000 You would acknowledge it.

02:26:35.000 It's very rare.

02:26:37.000 Conservative comics?

02:26:38.000 Yeah, comics would tend to be, yeah, far to the right.

02:26:40.000 I would say it's the minority, yes.

02:26:42.000 Yeah, it's very rare.

02:26:43.000 So on the site, you know, I have to bring on, because I can't write six, seven posts a day, but every single post I look through and I read, and I'm punching it up, just like a sitcom, you know, like Ray Romano.

02:26:52.000 Absolutely.

02:26:53.000 So, Courtney is one of our writers who was brilliant, was talking about, did you notice they can't deport transgenders now?

02:27:01.000 Oh, no, I didn't know that.

02:27:03.000 Because they're like, well, they're going to beat the shit out of you in Mexico.

02:27:04.000 If we send you back, they're going to kill you.

02:27:06.000 So it's a violation of human rights.

02:27:07.000 Oh, that's bad, yeah.

02:27:07.000 So you have a lot of people now just like, I mean, I'm a woman, you know, and they just put on a dress.

02:27:11.000 Who are not actually transgender.

02:27:13.000 So we talked about, I mean, I assume, I assume, I'm like, it can't be this.

02:27:13.000 Yeah.

02:27:17.000 What, does Mexico just have an abnormally high population of transgender?

02:27:20.000 All of the men are transgender.

02:27:21.000 Right, all of you are transgender.

02:27:23.000 Every what?

02:27:24.000 Right.

02:27:24.000 And she wrote something.

02:27:27.000 So she didn't come from a comedy background, but she's brilliant.

02:27:29.000 She's very funny.

02:27:30.000 And so she wrote talking about sending them back, and one of the lines was, and maybe avoid wearing that tight white dress.

02:27:38.000 She said, not because of the hairy man legs, but because it's after Labor Day.

02:27:42.000 I said, okay.

02:27:43.000 I said, I see where you're going with this.

02:27:44.000 What's the funny part?

02:27:46.000 Not Labor Day.

02:27:47.000 It's hairy man legs.

02:27:48.000 What's funnier than hairy man legs?

02:27:49.000 I said, okay, so Courtney, watch how I change this.

02:27:51.000 We avoid wearing that white dress.

02:27:53.000 Not because it's after Labor Day, but the penis.

02:27:56.000 And she was like, oh, that's so much better.

02:27:59.000 I don't know.

02:27:59.000 I actually like her for some better.

02:28:01.000 You think the Labor Day?

02:28:01.000 Really?

02:28:02.000 The misdirect is that the problem is all of the stuff you think would be a problem, but the main problem is just that it's white after Labor Day.

02:28:08.000 Oh, I should explain context.

02:28:10.000 She was talking about Labor Day before that in the previous phrase.

02:28:13.000 I like the misdirect, though, because in my mind, the obvious thing is to go hairy legs, penis, all that stuff.

02:28:18.000 So I'm less likely to see the white dress thing coming, that it's white after Labor Day.

02:28:23.000 Right.

02:28:23.000 Yeah, well, I guess it doesn't work, I guess, unless you explain the context.

02:28:28.000 But again, that's sort of just shortening it, you know.

02:28:33.000 You'll see some people on Twitter now.

02:28:35.000 My concern is really this.

02:28:37.000 A kid, you know, I think back when I was 17 starting, and just, you know, funnily enough, my first set, I did really well.

02:28:44.000 And then my second set, I bombed because I got overconfident.

02:28:47.000 So my first set, you know, I literally had about 40 minutes of material that I had written from 14, and I whittled it down to five.

02:28:53.000 And I just, I did really well.

02:28:55.000 And I was like, oh man, I'm great at this.

02:28:57.000 And I did my second set.

02:28:58.000 Everybody.

02:29:00.000 So, I think back though, I can't imagine a kid today, let's even say a kid 21, 20, younger guy getting up there, eating it, crossing that line of something that could be seen as too racist or something, and someone has a smartphone.

02:29:15.000 I just see careers getting destroyed and comedy getting watered down.

02:29:20.000 I can't see any of I mean, at The Cellar, for example, we strictly police the rooms just for that reason.

02:29:26.000 If you are caught recording the show in any way, we have to kick you out because we have to protect the comedians and their right to experiment and work on new stuff without that fear.

02:29:37.000 Right.

02:29:38.000 And I've seen famous comics walk out of shows lately because they see a phone come out.

02:29:42.000 Kevin Hart got into a lot of trouble on Twitter and I think it was undeserved because he was really policing the no cell phone at his show rule.

02:29:50.000 So they were kicking like 150 people out, which is not a lot when you consider that he had 50,000 people there.

02:29:56.000 So like that number is not a big number when you take it in context.

02:29:59.000 But he had these big signs that people were tweeting these big signs that say, oh, this is the only picture I can show you from the show because he's banned cell phones.

02:30:06.000 And it's like, that's what he has to do.

02:30:09.000 Yeah, I can imagine.

02:30:10.000 Well, I remember when it first started was MySpace.

02:30:12.000 That was actually when I won a MySpace.

02:30:14.000 It was So You Think You're Funny on MySpace.

02:30:16.000 Oh my god.

02:30:17.000 And it's funny.

02:30:18.000 That was actually how I got my Just for Laughs thing.

02:30:20.000 Which, by the way, people think it's easier if you're in Montreal.

02:30:21.000 It's actually way harder when you're in Montreal.

02:30:23.000 Well, there's two festivals.

02:30:24.000 There's the French-speaking and the English-speaking.

02:30:26.000 So I assume you're on the English-speaking one.

02:30:27.000 Yes.

02:30:28.000 But it's harder if you're from, you know, because you're in your own town and it's like, they only take like two from Montreal.

02:30:33.000 It's actually easier if you're from New York or LA. So it was really hard, just kind of cutthroat.

02:30:38.000 And I remember then, so MySpace, I did it, I created through like HTML, getting stand-up up on my profile.

02:30:45.000 And you may remember it was Kelly McKeegan was the one who used to book the Just for Laughs.

02:30:48.000 You may remember her, Brent Chiesse was on the TV side.

02:30:51.000 Okay.

02:30:52.000 And this guy was on my – so I entered the MySpace comedy competition, which I won.

02:30:56.000 And you know what the prize was?

02:30:58.000 To fly myself to Tampa to open for Bruce Bruce.

02:31:04.000 And I said like, "Well, no." At this point, I was kind of, you know, touring.

02:31:07.000 I said, I'm not going to do that.

02:31:08.000 But then they were like, well, okay, we'll get a rain check next time you're in the same town.

02:31:12.000 My family lives in Plano.

02:31:14.000 And Bruce Bruce came to the, you know, the Addison Improv.

02:31:16.000 You've probably performed there.

02:31:17.000 Okay, cool.

02:31:18.000 And it was Bruce Bruce, black boy with an eye, I think two eyes, and me.

02:31:26.000 And I tell you what, it was some of the best shows I've ever done, but it was horrible material.

02:31:30.000 It was just the entire, you know, 15 minutes was just about being white, you know, in a black audience.

02:31:35.000 I opened for Paul Mooney for two and a half years.

02:31:37.000 Really?

02:31:37.000 Oh, yeah.

02:31:38.000 Did you have to do a lot of, oh, I'm so white jokes?

02:31:41.000 No, actually, that's where I got a lot of my stuff that's about race and that kind of stuff was Paul used to love when I went really hard against race because the audience would hate it.

02:31:52.000 Because they're like, you can't tell us about that.

02:31:54.000 And you'd hear Paul cackling in the back.

02:31:57.000 Oh, well, then it doesn't matter if you bomb as long as he likes it.

02:32:00.000 I figured out how to turn that into a knot.

02:32:04.000 He was basically teaching me how to do that stuff.

02:32:07.000 I learned a lot from him.

02:32:09.000 I figured out how to convert that into crushing.

02:32:13.000 By the time a few months of opening for him, because I opened for him basically every other week at Caroline's for two and a half years, within a month or two I was just crushing.

02:32:22.000 But There was always that once in a while.

02:32:24.000 It was always scary because sometimes that audience was not inclined to like you.

02:32:28.000 No.

02:32:28.000 No, they were...

02:32:29.000 And I found out what's the Bruce Bruce black boy thing.

02:32:31.000 And he...

02:32:32.000 I don't know if Bruce Bruce comes out like it's a boxing thing.

02:32:35.000 Oh, yeah.

02:32:36.000 So he comes out and it's slow and he walks down with his entourage and I was the emcee.

02:32:41.000 And so that was the most awkward thing the first night I ever had to do in my life was sit there and the lights are going, you know, it's boom, all this hip-hop playing.

02:32:48.000 And he's just walking out slowly and I'm just kind of standing on stage for about a minute and a half.

02:32:54.000 But I remember I won that on MySpace and it's funny because this was the first time where smartphones kind of came in.

02:32:59.000 There was a guy on MySpace, his name, I even remember his name, I'll use it, Steve Eccles.

02:33:04.000 And I watched it.

02:33:08.000 It was my set.

02:33:09.000 It wasn't like some bits.

02:33:11.000 It was my set.

02:33:13.000 And I went to his website and he had even taken the template from my website.

02:33:18.000 For his website, I had like a gray brick wall to the point where you could see it had been like clearly copy pasted because it was just the same version of mine but fuzzier.

02:33:25.000 And it was the first time I ever had direct thievery and I called him on it and he totally just apologized.

02:33:32.000 He's like, I'm sorry.

02:33:34.000 That's usually what happens.

02:33:35.000 Most of these people aren't looking for a fight.

02:33:36.000 Like, I've had a lot of bits stolen, and I'm like, hey, dude, that's my bit.

02:33:39.000 And most of the time, they're like, my bad.

02:33:42.000 And they stop doing it.

02:33:43.000 Well, sometimes you get bits that are similar, where you don't even realize it.

02:33:46.000 Of course, parallel thinking.

02:33:47.000 You know what I mean?

02:33:48.000 Like, I almost removed a bit, because Joe Rogan does one so similar, but I've been doing it since 08.

02:33:52.000 You can even go back to a video about vegans and milk.

02:33:56.000 And my whole bit, like, it was about PETA. I did a video called PETA in the KKK. And my bit was, you know, vegans say we're the only species who drink another species of milk.

02:34:05.000 I said, okay.

02:34:06.000 Light bulbs.

02:34:08.000 Fruit roll-ups.

02:34:09.000 We're the only species who do a lot of things.

02:34:10.000 Should we ditch the space program?

02:34:12.000 Stop using fire because dolphins haven't gotten around to it?

02:34:15.000 And I go down the list of things that we do.

02:34:17.000 And Joe Rogan's was just talking about like, you know what also?

02:34:20.000 Call people on the phone and talk to them about how much we love milk.

02:34:20.000 We're the only people to do.

02:34:23.000 Something like that.

02:34:24.000 So it's very similar.

02:34:25.000 And I was like, you know what?

02:34:27.000 I'm not going to stop doing it.

02:34:29.000 It's tough.

02:34:30.000 I mean, those are such gray areas of like, yeah, you have to figure, is that bit, like sometimes you come up with a bit because it's easy because as soon as somebody hurts the topic.

02:34:38.000 Right.

02:34:38.000 But yeah, once in a while you get the situation where like, I like the way I wrote the joke.

02:34:41.000 The joke is obviously I wrote it.

02:34:43.000 I know I wrote it.

02:34:44.000 It's hard.

02:34:44.000 Yeah.

02:34:45.000 Yeah.

02:34:45.000 And I also felt like I have 20 minutes on veganism and the gluten-free thing, comparing gluten-free to AIDS. Oh, my God.

02:34:53.000 I have a bunch of stuff on veganism.

02:34:55.000 I was vegan for five months, so I have a bunch of jokes about why I'm not.

02:34:58.000 Why were you vegan?

02:35:00.000 It was for health reasons.

02:35:01.000 I mean, the studies show that definitely all of my numbers got better.

02:35:04.000 I lost a lot of weight.

02:35:05.000 All my cholesterol went down.

02:35:07.000 So it was purely a diet.

02:35:11.000 Well, my cholesterol went up.

02:35:13.000 Really?

02:35:14.000 Yep.

02:35:15.000 Actually, here, and I'll let you go.

02:35:16.000 To give you an idea, this is where I was convinced.

02:35:19.000 So when I was doing like a lot of green smoothies, my cholesterol was 219, my LDL was 140, HDL was, yeah, so my triglycerides were 94.

02:35:30.000 And my testosterone was at about like 298 to the point where I was like, that's testosterone replacement therapy.

02:35:37.000 Once I started eating more meat and fewer refined carbs, like I'm not paleo or anything, the total went to 178.

02:35:43.000 LDL dropped from 140 to 115.

02:35:46.000 Triglycerides from 94 to 59.

02:35:48.000 And the testosterone went to 700.

02:35:50.000 And it was like, so I did like the actual blood work.

02:35:52.000 I wasn't like, I'm just going to go vegan and see how I feel.

02:35:54.000 Yeah.

02:35:54.000 Oh, no, me too.

02:35:55.000 You know what it was for me?

02:35:56.000 Being vegan meant I couldn't eat pizza.

02:35:58.000 I couldn't eat ice cream.

02:35:59.000 It knocked out all the bad comedy club foods.

02:36:02.000 Yes.

02:36:03.000 It worked for me.

02:36:03.000 So it worked.

02:36:04.000 It wasn't me.

02:36:05.000 That was the only reason I did it.

02:36:07.000 And the seller actually has some pretty good food.

02:36:09.000 Delicious.

02:36:10.000 And vegan.

02:36:10.000 Like hummus is very good.

02:36:11.000 This is true.

02:36:12.000 All right.

02:36:13.000 Harrison, I think we've worked it out.

02:36:15.000 I think we agree on some.

02:36:16.000 We'll still disagree on some others.

02:36:17.000 Yeah.

02:36:18.000 Oh, I'm glad to have you on.

02:36:20.000 Now, where's the best place again for people to find you so I don't butcher it?

02:36:24.000 HarrisonGreenbaum.com is my website and at Harrison Comedy is my Twitter.

02:36:28.000 Now, are you still in Last Comic Standing?

02:36:30.000 No, I am not.

02:36:31.000 I'm sorry.

02:36:32.000 That was the worst way to possibly end it.

02:36:34.000 It's totally cool.

02:36:35.000 You've lost!

02:36:36.000 No, I didn't know.

02:36:37.000 She was brave now!

02:36:39.000 Yes, she was brave now.

02:36:41.000 Well, good.

02:36:42.000 Listen, the good thing is they can't take it.

02:36:44.000 That's one thing with stand-up.

02:36:46.000 I'll leave on this.

02:36:47.000 My dad and I always talk about doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

02:36:50.000 It's like if someone's a cyclist, if someone does figure skating, if someone plays hockey, my dad played hockey, you play your sport and it leaves.

02:36:55.000 The one thing with grappling is you always take it with you.

02:36:58.000 If something happens where you need to use it, it's like, well, this is my body.

02:37:01.000 It's the same thing with stand-up.

02:37:03.000 People can take away your job.

02:37:05.000 They can take away your website, kind of.

02:37:08.000 They can't take away your ability to write a joke.

02:37:11.000 So regardless of whether you're on that show, I really do think you're funny and I hope to have you back.

02:37:14.000 Thank you, man.

02:37:15.000 I appreciate you having me on the program.

02:37:16.000 Alright, thank you very much.

02:37:17.000 Harrison Greenbaum, he is not gay, and I apologize for getting that wrong.

02:37:22.000 Come back next week.

02:37:24.000 Hey, subscribe by clicking my face or watch one of these videos next to me, because...

Louder with Crowder - September 14, 2015

Free Speech and Comedy Debate With Harrison Greenbaum | Louder With Crowder

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