Louder with Crowder - March 09, 2015


MARIJUANA! Is It Actually Good For You? || Louder With Crowder


Episode Stats


Length

37 minutes

Words per minute

178.878

Word count

6,696

Sentence count

471

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

3

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Phyllis Boniface is a neuropsychiatrist who specializes in treating adolescents and young adults dealing with the effects of marijuana use. In this episode, she discusses the pros and cons of legalization of marijuana in the United States, and her observations on the effects on young people growing up with pot use.

Transcript

Transcripts from "Louder with Crowder" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:02.000 We are back, Louder with Crowder.
00:00:04.000 I'm very excited about our next guest because we've had her on the show before, but only on YouTube, on the web show, I guess you can say.
00:00:12.000 She caught a lot of flack, a neuropsychiatrist, specialty, it's very specialized, very brilliant lady, Dr. 0.73
00:00:21.000 Phyllis Boniface.
00:00:22.000 Thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:00:23.000 It's my pleasure, Stephen.
00:00:25.000 Okay.
00:00:25.000 So you kind of felt a little bit of the backlash of YouTube at that point.
00:00:29.000 We did a video on marijuana, right, when it was legalized in Colorado and sort of examined where you are in Ann Arbor, the decriminalization and what happens legally, what are the ramifications.
00:00:40.000 But I want to clarify something.
00:00:42.000 In the video – I didn't say the government should be able to outlaw pot in every state.
00:00:47.000 As a matter of fact, I take the libertarian stance.
00:00:49.000 If pots want to legalize it, fine. 0.95
00:00:51.000 The problem I had is all the people who say legalize all drugs, legalize pot, in order to get that passed, they generally aren't as forthcoming about the harms of marijuana.
00:01:03.000 And I think if you're an adult and you want to harm your body, fine.
00:01:05.000 But the people who are wanting to legalize it aren't taking on the responsibility of assisting in education.
00:01:11.000 So that's what we had you on to do, which seems benign enough, right, for you to just say, hey, here are the ways pot might be bad for you.
00:01:17.000 And people were furious.
00:01:19.000 Did that surprise you?
00:01:20.000 Not really.
00:01:22.000 I've spoken at some forums before and I know that there's a lot of pro-marijuana people out there and I always find it instructive to read the comments and how people actually make their arguments and People who are very pro-marijuana and obviously heavy users, their arguments kind of illustrate the points that we're trying to make, that it can cause problems and deficits in people's thinking.
00:01:46.000 So it's exhibit A. Yes, exactly.
00:01:49.000 Well, it's funny.
00:01:50.000 If you Google right now, you know, marijuana bad.
00:01:54.000 The first searches that come up are, people try and tell you marijuana's bad, but it's right-wing propaganda.
00:02:01.000 So first off, you yourself are a libertarian, right?
00:02:04.000 That's correct, except in the area of drugs.
00:02:07.000 Okay, except in the area of drugs.
00:02:09.000 And that's obviously because you would probably be more qualified than SweetCherry84 at Yahoo.com commenting on YouTube.
00:02:16.000 So I will tell you this, being raised as a millennial really in my generation, We're raised to think it's benign.
00:02:24.000 It's less harmful than alcohol, right?
00:02:26.000 That it's one of those things people used to think was bad, and it's not anymore.
00:02:30.000 Have you noticed that being a trend right now with young people where they're growing up just thinking, ah, it's like smoking a cigarette?
00:02:37.000 Absolutely.
00:02:38.000 I think there's a greater perception that it's kind of a harmless pleasure.
00:02:42.000 And a lot of the young people that I treat in my practice, they're high school students or college students, and they feel it's like having a beer or two.
00:02:49.000 And they actually don't drink as much as they smoke pot now.
00:02:53.000 That's what they do.
00:02:55.000 When they go to a party on weekends, they smoke marijuana.
00:02:58.000 And so I think there's a decreased perception of risk and an increasing embracing that that's part of their culture.
00:03:06.000 Yeah.
00:03:07.000 Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
00:03:08.000 I was raised in Montreal where it's basically less than a speeding ticket.
00:03:12.000 And this is entirely anecdotal.
00:03:14.000 I cannot point you to one of my friends.
00:03:17.000 It was very common, but a huge portion of, I wouldn't say close friends, people I hung out with smoked pot.
00:03:22.000 every single one of them had some kind of a change in their personality or their psychological behavior by the end of high school.
00:03:30.000 And I don't know if that's just me as a dummy looking at my friend going, you're pretty smart in middle school and now you're an idiot.
00:03:37.000 Is there some actual neurology there that would back that up?
00:03:41.000 Well, absolutely.
00:03:42.000 I would say in the scientific world, they always say, you know, the plural of anecdote is not data.
00:03:48.000 But we really do have data to support your observations that a lot of your friends who maybe started out with promise didn't end up with their full potential.
00:03:57.000 And that's the real concern here.
00:03:59.000 Because we're talking about millions of young people who are using regularly, and I define regular use as just once a week.
00:04:06.000 And chillingly, the Monitoring the Future study here at U of M It shows that 6.5% or more of high school students are using it daily, not just weekly.
00:04:19.000 So, you know, we're looking at huge swaths of the population, not just a few friends.
00:04:24.000 It's becoming the accepted norm.
00:04:26.000 Right.
00:04:27.000 Now, okay, so you're talking about people who are teenagers, right, in high school.
00:04:31.000 To be fair, if you're a healthy adult, let's say, with no history of psychosis or mental disorder, if a healthy adult were to smoke every now and then, let's say, in their own house, I'm not endorsing this, I don't do it, so please hold your letters, it would be relatively harmless in comparison to the developing brain, right?
00:04:52.000 Right.
00:04:53.000 Well, I would say that youth, and again, we have to define youth.
00:04:57.000 A lot of the studies that have been done prospectively have been 18 and under, but it's clear that the brain doesn't finish wiring itself until about 24 or 25.
00:05:06.000 So, a lot of the studies now are continuing that observational study up until those age groups.
00:05:13.000 So, I mean, it's speculation to say that people over the age of, you know, brain maturation have no deficits.
00:05:19.000 The patients that I see, of course, they have psychiatric illnesses, they have anxiety or mood disorders, and a little bit of marijuana completely, you know, throws them into a relapse.
00:05:33.000 typical population.
00:05:34.000 You know, I do have friends, unfortunately, professionals, even physicians, who smoke marijuana.
00:05:40.000 And all I can say is, you know, I can see subtle changes in their behavior when they're using versus when they're not, but they clearly function at a high level.
00:05:52.000 We have to define also, you know, when we look at IQ problems, and we'll talk a little bit more specifically about that, you know, if you start off with an IQ of 137 and you lose seven or eight IQ points, you're still, you know, highly functional, you know, versus the bell curve of the population, you know, when they lose seven or eight IQ points, they go from average to low average, and that's enormously consequential.
00:06:14.000 So again, it depends on the user.
00:06:17.000 I guess I didn't even really think about that when you look at the bell curve.
00:06:20.000 I took those online IQ tests because I wanted to become a member of Mensa only to do a hidden camera video with Mensa where I would go in and just be like, hey, what if everyone's right?
00:06:30.000 What if we're all really just jackasses who are self-important?
00:06:33.000 And I think I was shy by like a couple points.
00:06:37.000 So maybe it'll have the reverse effect.
00:06:40.000 If I just smoke a doobie, I can join Mensa.
00:06:42.000 Thank you.
00:06:43.000 You've convinced me, Dr.
00:06:44.000 Boniface.
00:06:46.000 I don't think anybody can afford a few IQ points off their top.
00:06:49.000 All right.
00:06:50.000 Well, let's get more into that after the break here, if you can stay with us and talk about specifically how it might affect IQ and brain development.
00:06:57.000 This is fascinating stuff.
00:06:58.000 Dr.
00:06:59.000 Boniface, louder with Crowder.
00:07:00.000 We'll be right back.
00:07:01.000 We are back talking weed with Dr.
00:07:05.000 Thank you so much for staying with us, and I apologize for my hackishness.
00:07:05.000 Phyllis Boniface.
00:07:09.000 I can't be mature when it comes to these serious subjects.
00:07:12.000 I'm wildly uncomfortable with them.
00:07:13.000 So you were talking about how marijuana, So, Dr.
00:07:41.000 Boniface, Tell us a little bit more so about IQ and brain development and specifically what can be observed scientifically, measurably, with marijuana.
00:07:55.000 Well, there are a number of studies.
00:07:56.000 Some of them date back fairly far to studies done in New Zealand and in Sweden and in the UK that show a decrease in IQ of up to eight points.
00:08:07.000 There was recently a study released in 2012 of 1,200 or 1,300 prospective observational studies on youth who followed users of marijuana versus non-users, and they found a decrease of about six or seven points and they found a decrease of about six or seven points of And this was across the board, even with people who did not have any kind of genetic vulnerabilities towards other mental issues.
00:08:35.000 So there was a higher incidence of IQ decrease the younger the person started using.
00:08:41.000 So if someone starts using at 12 or 14, the cognitive deficits are much more profound as someone who starts using later in adolescence.
00:08:51.000 So again, earlier on in the neurodevelopment, the more damaging it is.
00:08:58.000 Have you been paid by Big Pharma to come on this show and spew this?
00:09:02.000 Well, let's just say there's a huge pot lobby.
00:09:05.000 If I really wanted to make money, I could work for them.
00:09:08.000 Well, you know, it's so funny that you said it because, of course, I get accused.
00:09:12.000 Anytime you disagree with someone, right, it's, well, you know, I'm a little bit skeptical of climate change.
00:09:17.000 It's big oil.
00:09:18.000 It's like, well, you know what?
00:09:19.000 Ah, Big Pharma, right?
00:09:20.000 And I just wrote a piece on The Blaze where a lot of people don't realize it.
00:09:24.000 The biggest supplement companies, which is a huge scam, by the way, many of them are owned by the big pharmaceutical companies.
00:09:30.000 So it's like, I'm going to go holistic and buy these vitamins.
00:09:32.000 And it's being sold by the same person who gives you your painkillers.
00:09:37.000 This is my uneducated, mildly unintelligent brain working.
00:09:45.000 The idea is Big Pharma has suppressed any and all positive research on marijuana.
00:09:50.000 If people go to the previous video, they can click the link right here.
00:09:53.000 If they're listening terrestrially, go to ladderwithcrader.com.
00:09:56.000 They say marijuana is actually – it cures cancer.
00:09:59.000 It's very beneficial and it's all suppressed by Big Pharma because they can't patent it because it's a plant.
00:10:05.000 So here's me looking at it saying, okay, what's more likely – All big pharmaceutical companies since the beginning of time have gotten together and said, hey, marijuana is this incredible wonder drug.
00:10:16.000 It'll put us all out of business.
00:10:17.000 Let's make sure to taint all research.
00:10:20.000 When really one of the most popular prescriptions is my wife takes. 1.00
00:10:23.000 It's retinol.
00:10:24.000 It's a vitamin A lotion.
00:10:26.000 So if they can patent vitamin A, it seems to me they could patent some kind of a compound of marijuana.
00:10:30.000 And if it were an incredibly effective drug, they would find a way to patent it and just make money off of it.
00:10:36.000 Is that my stupid pea brain working?
00:10:38.000 Is that a reasonable premise?
00:10:38.000 Or could...
00:10:40.000 Well, that's basic economics, Stephen, and I'm sure you understand.
00:10:44.000 If there's a useful molecule in there, they're going to find it.
00:10:47.000 They would love to patent one of the molecules in Kapot, but the problem is marijuana is not a drug.
00:10:54.000 I mean, people who make this argument can't even give me a definition of what is a drug.
00:10:58.000 You know, a drug is something that's given to a person that produces a measurable effect in a measurable way.
00:11:05.000 In this day and age, drugs are actually engineered.
00:11:09.000 They're a single molecule, very elaborately constructed, that binds to specific receptors in the body, whether it's something for your hypertension or it's something for your depression, whatever.
00:11:22.000 But it's very, very specific.
00:11:24.000 And even with that binding in a certain area of the brain, a single molecule, it has enormous effects.
00:11:30.000 Pot is not a drug.
00:11:32.000 It's 400 chemicals.
00:11:33.000 60 of them have actually been identified to be active pharmacologically in the body.
00:11:38.000 And some of them very psychoactive.
00:11:41.000 And it also is highly variable.
00:11:43.000 You know, there are different compounds in THC and CBD, which is, you know, there's one of them that can induce psychosis more, it gives the high, and the other one has more of a calming effect.
00:11:54.000 So, I mean, we're not talking about a drug.
00:11:56.000 We're talking about, you know, instead of a targeted shot, you know, at the brain, it's actually like buckshot.
00:12:02.000 It hits everything.
00:12:03.000 The cannabinoid system links with every system in the brain.
00:12:09.000 So you're basically talking about a laser-guided missile versus a dirty bomb.
00:12:15.000 I guess that would be an analogy.
00:12:17.000 Okay, well, again, this is my moderately intelligent analogy who's trying to understand the science of it.
00:12:17.000 Yeah.
00:12:26.000 And the thing that really bothers me, and this has got to frustrate you as a libertarian, right?
00:12:30.000 I have never once seen, and I am more of a libertarian, too.
00:12:32.000 I mean, I think I'm more libertarian on the idea of the drug war than you are, but I don't work in it.
00:12:38.000 The idea that these people who go out who want to legalize drugs and they completely absolve themselves of the response – they say, well, it's bad for you, but you know what?
00:12:46.000 People should be able to put what they want in their body.
00:12:47.000 I agree.
00:12:48.000 But if you're the one who's pushing for it to be legalized and in order for it to be legalized, you have to present some logical fallacies like it's recognized medicine or it's relatively harmless.
00:13:01.000 I've never once seen a pro-legalization publication, libertarian publication – Also publish a piece saying, hey, here are the harms that come with marijuana.
00:13:13.000 Don't you think it's their personal responsibility to do that if they're going to be telling people to light up?
00:13:20.000 Well, I find it deeply ironic.
00:13:22.000 I think libertarianism is based on self-reliance and taking responsibility for one's actions.
00:13:28.000 And I don't see anything more irresponsible than leashing something into society that will actually cause damage and impair people's ability to be responsible for themselves.
00:13:38.000 You know, we have a vast social net in this country, and I can tell you from experience, I've seen many people in the last 28 years who are smoking marijuana.
00:13:48.000 Their parents are on disability because they have drug abuse.
00:13:52.000 They're both smoking marijuana.
00:13:53.000 Now the children, we have three generations of people on disability living in the same home who are incapable of taking care of themselves. 1.00
00:14:00.000 Now that may be the extreme, but we have to look at the fact that if people don't function well, society is going to end up having to take responsibility for them.
00:14:10.000 And that's antithetical to most libertarians.
00:14:13.000 Wow, I see how you tied that back there intellectually.
00:14:15.000 Very well done, Doc.
00:14:18.000 What about the people who just say everything you're saying right now is nothing new.
00:14:21.000 It's just reefer madness and you're just trying to scare people.
00:14:25.000 Well, reefer madness is propaganda.
00:14:27.000 I'm trying to tell people about something scientific.
00:14:30.000 I find it interesting that most of my leftist friends, they're big on evolution.
00:14:36.000 And I always present the argument, well, our brains developed evolutionarily very, very specifically to do certain tasks over thousands and thousands of years.
00:14:46.000 And now we're going to basically take a monkey wrench to our evolutionary advantage in terms of our Ability to function as human beings.
00:14:55.000 Okay.
00:14:56.000 Quick question there, because this is something I saw a lot of on the last video.
00:15:00.000 The pro-pot people, who are, by the way, vastly outnumber the anti-pot doctors like yourself on YouTube.
00:15:09.000 Who would have thought?
00:15:10.000 They say, well, actually, the human body, you know, these cannabinoid receptors, cannabinoid, I don't know how to pronounce it, receptors, they were designed for things like marijuana, and our bodies were designed to process it, and it's a natural substance that our body expects.
00:15:26.000 Is there any truth to that, honestly?
00:15:28.000 Well, it's actually opposite of that.
00:15:30.000 I mean, we have these receptors or else the marijuana would have no effect.
00:15:34.000 If we didn't have a receptor, you wouldn't get a high off of it.
00:15:37.000 But that system is there for a reason, and I always say don't mess with Mother Nature like that, because that system is, like I said, interlinked with everything.
00:15:46.000 Mood regulation, cognitive function, impulsivity, judgment, all of these things that are higher functions that are required for our behavior in the world.
00:15:57.000 And we're doing something that will alter all of those systems in an unknown, uncontrolled way.
00:16:04.000 So there's the danger.
00:16:07.000 Okay.
00:16:07.000 But they would say, well, why do we have those receptors if we weren't designed to ingest cannabis?
00:16:13.000 Well, the cannabinoid system is interesting.
00:16:16.000 It actually is part of the stress response system of the brain.
00:16:20.000 So the cannabinoid system, when it's elevated, can suppress the stress response.
00:16:25.000 However, you can't do that willy-nilly.
00:16:28.000 If you do that, you're going to actually change how the brain processes information and behavior.
00:16:33.000 So if you were to...
00:16:35.000 Want to tap into that system, you certainly wouldn't do it in this way.
00:16:39.000 You would do it again in a targeted way.
00:16:42.000 The stress response is critical for our behaviors.
00:16:46.000 Right.
00:16:47.000 Well, okay.
00:16:49.000 That's fascinating.
00:16:50.000 So I'm trying to get my head around that because we do have that system, right, that processes it.
00:16:54.000 Would it sort of be like saying, okay, you know, you have dopamine receptors.
00:16:58.000 It doesn't mean that you should go out and smoke crack, even though that actively, you know, reacts with dopamine receptors.
00:17:05.000 It's not the right way to use them.
00:17:07.000 Exactly.
00:17:07.000 I call it a hijacking of the system.
00:17:10.000 You know, you're taking a biological system that's there and has a homeostasis, and you're tapping into it and altering it in what we call a non-physiologic way, which means it is causing that system to, you know, change the complete balance, put out too much of something or too little of something, and change the regulation.
00:17:30.000 So that's the problem.
00:17:32.000 So you don't smoke crack, do you, Doc?
00:17:35.000 No, I don't.
00:17:36.000 And unfortunately, anyone who smokes crack is usually going back to it at some point.
00:17:41.000 So that's definitely a cul-de-sac evolutionarily.
00:17:45.000 Well, I'm just saying, because the people on YouTube, the qualified medical professionals on YouTube, do believe that you smoke crack.
00:17:51.000 That's the only way you could possibly be critical of marijuana.
00:17:55.000 So I just wanted to clarify that for our listeners.
00:17:57.000 Thank you.
00:17:58.000 I wasn't sure.
00:18:00.000 It's funny that we talk about this and we'll bring you on after the break because I want to get into comparing maybe marijuana versus some other drugs specifically.
00:18:08.000 Actually, I guess we can get into that now and then we'll come back to sort of the social ramifications.
00:18:12.000 So people would say you're a psychiatrist, right?
00:18:14.000 And psychiatrists prescribe some what they would argue are much more harmful drugs, certainly drugs that can result in death more easily like Adderall Yeah.
00:18:34.000 Well, first of all, the goal of psychiatric drugs is not to get a high.
00:18:39.000 It's actually wrong.
00:18:41.000 I mean, people don't want people to get a high.
00:18:43.000 That's where you see the area of pain management is so difficult because the therapy is actually related to feeling a high and that's quite problematic.
00:18:51.000 But in psychiatry, I mean, all drugs are subjected to double-blind, placebo-controlled studies, which means they have to be studied, you know, the drug versus no drug.
00:19:01.000 They have to be And they also have to define reduction or lack of harm.
00:19:08.000 It's very difficult to do that.
00:19:10.000 There are a lot of bars you have to jump over before the FDA will approve any drug.
00:19:15.000 And now it takes about a billion dollars of research and development to develop a new drug to bring to market.
00:19:20.000 So it's not an easy feat and it requires sometimes dozens of years of development to find something that's effective and safe.
00:19:29.000 So, you know, it's a very advanced science.
00:19:32.000 And, you know, in my practice, I do prescribe drugs, but I always start with, you know, do what's in the best interest of the patient, which means do no harm.
00:19:40.000 We try to get people to manage stress in their life, you know, get rid of drugs and alcohol, exercise, take care of themselves.
00:19:47.000 I mean, that's always the starting point.
00:19:48.000 We don't always prescribe drugs.
00:19:50.000 Right.
00:19:51.000 It sounds far too reasonable for the land of the internet right now, but we'll bring you back after the break and talk a little bit more about pot.
00:19:59.000 Boniface, Ladder with Crotter.
00:19:59.000 Dr.
00:20:00.000 Stay tuned.
00:20:01.000 Back with Paid Off by Big Oil.
00:20:05.000 Of course, Dr.
00:20:06.000 Boniface specializes in neuropsychiatry.
00:20:09.000 Talking about pot, your brain on pot.
00:20:12.000 And fascinating stuff.
00:20:13.000 Boniface, before we left, we were talking about drugs and psychiatry and how psychiatrists or at least – listen, let's be honest.
00:20:13.000 So Dr.
00:20:21.000 A lot of psychiatrists do push drugs as a first line and it's not right and it's a rare case.
00:20:27.000 It's an exception to the rule.
00:20:28.000 But let's also talk about – while we're discussing exceptions to the rule, this idea right now that marijuana is non-addictive And it's certainly less addictive than something like alcohol, which is legal.
00:20:43.000 How do you argue against that?
00:20:46.000 Well, I mean as far as non-addictivity, I mean studies have shown one in ten people who smoke pot become addicted to it.
00:20:53.000 And if you started earlier in life, meaning in your teens, it's about one in six.
00:20:58.000 You know, 30% of people who use pot go on to use other drugs, and that's not a small number.
00:21:03.000 You know, 50% of all addictions to rehab, and I do work in the drug addiction area too, people started with pot use.
00:21:13.000 And interestingly, 90% of those people started it in their teen years.
00:21:17.000 So again, earlier exposure increases the risk of addiction vastly.
00:21:23.000 So 30%, you said 30% of pot users go on to use another drug?
00:21:27.000 That's correct.
00:21:28.000 Now, what about people who would argue that has nothing to do with the drug.
00:21:32.000 It has to do with the type of personality who might gravitate toward pot.
00:21:35.000 Generally, the personality who's arguing that point in the first place.
00:21:38.000 Yeah.
00:21:38.000 Well, we know there are genetic predispositions to addiction.
00:21:43.000 We think it has something to do with the dopamine system and the genetics that are inherited from your parents.
00:21:49.000 So many people have a genetic vulnerability, but for example, there's also a genetic vulnerability to mental illness with use of marijuana.
00:21:58.000 And again, we've been working out the genetics of that, but the issue is that a large swath of the population, 25 or 30 percent, are highly vulnerable.
00:22:08.000 And they actually know there's a specific gene, the C-O-M-T gene it's called.
00:22:14.000 It has to do with dopamine regulation in the brain.
00:22:17.000 25 to 30 percent of the population has the variation that makes them intensely vulnerable to addiction or mental illness.
00:22:23.000 Now is that a risk we're willing to run as a population in terms of public health?
00:22:29.000 Well, let me ask you this, because you say 30%, and then your numbers were about 25% to 30% of people have a vulnerability toward addiction.
00:22:35.000 Do we have any numbers as far as what the percentages of people who drink alcohol, who either become addicted or go on to harder drugs?
00:22:43.000 Yeah, it's less than that.
00:22:44.000 And also, I want to define the difference between alcohol.
00:22:47.000 This always comes up.
00:22:48.000 You are at the ready with these answers.
00:22:50.000 I'm trying to stump you here.
00:22:53.000 It's because these are questions people ask me in my office every day.
00:22:57.000 A lot of people are struggling with substance abuse.
00:23:01.000 Alcohol is actually metabolized by the body.
00:23:04.000 Your liver has enzymes that break down alcohol.
00:23:07.000 It's been developed through, again, thousands of years of evolution.
00:23:11.000 This enzyme varies in different genetic groups.
00:23:14.000 Europeans break down alcohol much more quickly than Asians and American Indians. 0.99
00:23:19.000 They don't have as much of the enzyme and the alcohol levels are higher in these people.
00:23:23.000 So there's a vast difference, but we do metabolize alcohol.
00:23:28.000 It's metabolized and excreted about an ounce an hour of alcohol in general in a European population.
00:23:35.000 Marijuana is not excreted in that way.
00:23:37.000 It's not excreted, period.
00:23:38.000 It's not metabolized.
00:23:39.000 It has to be taken out of the body like a toxin.
00:23:42.000 Because it's lipid soluble, it gets into the central nervous system and it sticks there.
00:23:48.000 You know, it takes five to seven days to eliminate the marijuana that's in a single cigarette.
00:23:53.000 And so you smoke once a week, basically THC is in your brain exerting a pharmacologic effect all week, even though you're not high.
00:24:03.000 And this is the problem.
00:24:04.000 It's what we call a depot drug.
00:24:09.000 If you smoke every day, it takes 90 days to eliminate all the metabolites of THC. And that is an amazing amount of time.
00:24:19.000 It's a very, very long half-life drug.
00:24:21.000 Right.
00:24:23.000 So you mentioned, I'm trying to go back to some of these numbers about people who have a proclivity toward addiction.
00:24:28.000 Well, one thing that interested me was, remember the big bath salt scare?
00:24:32.000 Yes.
00:24:33.000 Remember that?
00:24:33.000 People were eating everyone's faces off and stuff.
00:24:35.000 It was after the chimpanzee on red wine and Xanax scare, which was the funniest of the scares.
00:24:40.000 So the bath salt scare, I remember when I actually read up on it, you didn't hear about this in the news a lot.
00:24:45.000 The only drug they tested positive for was marijuana.
00:24:49.000 And actually, a lot of the mass crime spree people were heavy marijuana users in their youth and did test positive.
00:24:58.000 Now, correlation doesn't equal causation.
00:25:00.000 That's the buzz phrase people throw around online, and sometimes it's correct, sometimes it's not.
00:25:05.000 So not everyone who smokes marijuana, obviously, is going to go on a crime spree.
00:25:11.000 Is there any kind of data there that would suggest some kind of a correlation maybe with someone who – I mean how could marijuana trigger someone to bite someone's face off?
00:25:22.000 Let's put it that way.
00:25:23.000 Well, I don't know the details of that case, but let's just put it in the context of what we know about the effect of cannabis on psychosis, for example.
00:25:23.000 Okay.
00:25:31.000 We can argue that all of these people who commit these horrible crimes, they're psychotic.
00:25:35.000 I mean they're not in touch with reality.
00:25:37.000 There are many studies that have taken place over the last 30 years that show an increased incidence of psychotic illnesses in people who start using marijuana early in life.
00:25:48.000 You know, it increases the incidence of psychosis by about two to three times over a lifetime.
00:25:56.000 It also reduces the amount of time to the first psychotic episode in someone who has schizophrenia, and that's not a small thing.
00:25:56.000 Really?
00:26:05.000 Schizophrenia usually presents between the ages of 17 and 25 when the brain's fully matured.
00:26:11.000 I thought it usually presented itself in a raincoat in an alleyway, but continue.
00:26:18.000 Anyway, when you reduce the age of onset, meaning instead of at age 20, someone will start showing Symptoms at age 17 instead.
00:26:29.000 So again, these are people who have the genetic predisposition.
00:26:32.000 They follow them, you know, through their lifetime and they find the age of onset is much, much younger.
00:26:37.000 And the first episodes of psychosis, people are extremely vulnerable to doing violent things.
00:26:44.000 The incidence of suicide and homicide and things like that is much, much higher in those initial episodes of psychosis.
00:26:50.000 So here we are, you know, introducing a drug that may Change the age of psychosis, reduce the age, and increase the vulnerability to that.
00:26:59.000 So that's not something to take lightly.
00:27:02.000 No, it's not something to take lightly.
00:27:04.000 But I do think there are a lot of people out there You know, and I will say, listen, I'm just honest.
00:27:09.000 This is the only issue I would say.
00:27:11.000 You know, I'm pro-life.
00:27:12.000 I'm pro-limited government.
00:27:14.000 I'm not a big tax guy.
00:27:15.000 People know that.
00:27:16.000 This is the one issue where I go back and forth.
00:27:18.000 I think it really does come down to states' rights.
00:27:20.000 But I do think you'll have a large contingency of people who say all of those things are true.
00:27:26.000 But they also acknowledge heroin is bad and it should be legal anyway.
00:27:30.000 And a big example they point to, of course, is Portugal because they want to end the drug war.
00:27:33.000 And I agree.
00:27:34.000 The drug war has been relatively inefficient.
00:27:36.000 But they say, you know, look at Portugal.
00:27:37.000 They saved all this money in the drug war.
00:27:39.000 But what I think a lot of people and a lot of libertarians, which you are, again, by the way, don't point to is that Portugal has an immense public rehabilitation program.
00:27:50.000 I mean, it's entirely socialized.
00:27:55.000 usage and addiction problems.
00:27:56.000 So when people make the argument economically, right, that everything you've just said is true, but it's still not the government's role to go in and tell someone that they can't do that to their body.
00:28:07.000 Where do you line up on that as a libertarian, but also a doctor?
00:28:10.000 And again, I think it comes back to personal responsibility.
00:28:15.000 Are you going to expose people?
00:28:16.000 And again, you know, libertarians assume that people can make rational decisions.
00:28:21.000 They rely on reason to guide their behavior.
00:28:25.000 And yet they're going to introduce something into society that we know will be used by young people.
00:28:31.000 You know, by example, even if we say they shouldn't be used by people under the age of 21, it will be if their parents are using it.
00:28:38.000 People learn by example that it will actually damage the brains of the generations coming up.
00:28:43.000 Now, what kind of free society can we have?
00:28:46.000 Let me just be devil's advocate here.
00:28:48.000 We're going to reduce the IQ 7 to 8 points of maybe 30% of the population and we're going to be able to have a functional republic.
00:28:58.000 Do you really think it would reduce the general IQ of the public or only those with a proclivity toward problems with marijuana?
00:29:03.000 Well, actually the cognitive deficits are not just in the people who have a predisposition.
00:29:09.000 They've actually looked at this.
00:29:11.000 They've taken out people who have any kind of Genetic predisposition to mental illness or addiction.
00:29:20.000 They've eliminated them from the studies.
00:29:23.000 And even those people who should not have the vulnerability are having persistent cognitive deficits.
00:29:29.000 These young people who start before the age of 18, even after they're not smoking for four to six months, these deficits don't go away.
00:29:36.000 Now, they haven't followed them beyond that period.
00:29:39.000 But these deficits are evident on neuropsych testing, which is really detailed mental tests of tasks like memory and processing.
00:29:46.000 Not to be confused with thetan testing, which if you're interested in Scientology, listeners and viewers, I will send you the kit.
00:29:52.000 Continue, Dr.
00:29:53.000 So in neuropsych testing, and also it's visible on functional MRI. So we can actually see a picture of the parts of the brain that are involved in the cognitive function that are compromised.
00:29:53.000 Boniface.
00:30:03.000 They've shrunken in size.
00:30:05.000 Their volume is reduced.
00:30:07.000 The pathways between parts of the brain are reduced.
00:30:10.000 And this applies to anyone in the general population?
00:30:13.000 Anyone.
00:30:14.000 Not just the vulnerable to mental illness.
00:30:16.000 That's correct.
00:30:18.000 Now, why...
00:30:18.000 Okay, let me ask you this, Doc.
00:30:21.000 Why...
00:30:22.000 Is there such a pushback on this?
00:30:24.000 Why do so few people believe what you're saying?
00:30:27.000 I mean, if you could actually send me these studies, we'll get them up at ladderworthcrowder.com, so I'll hyperlink them.
00:30:33.000 But why is it that so many people are pushing back and saying that that's just untrue, that there is no evidence, I guess that there is no data right now, that you could draw those conclusions, that that happens, that it's all propaganda?
00:30:46.000 Why is there such a pushback, and why do most people believe that right now?
00:30:51.000 Well, I don't know about most people.
00:30:52.000 You wouldn't find that in the mental health community.
00:30:54.000 I don't know any mental health people that really believe that marijuana should be available to people.
00:31:00.000 You know, in the general population, I don't know.
00:31:03.000 Some libertarians are more like libertine, in my opinion.
00:31:06.000 They think anybody should be able to do anything they want anytime.
00:31:09.000 I mean, you know, come on.
00:31:10.000 I mean, we have to have some kind of definitions in society.
00:31:15.000 The other issue here that I find very interesting, and I've seen this in my patients over the few decades I've been in practice, marijuana damages the prefrontal cortex.
00:31:26.000 That's the self-observing part of the brain.
00:31:28.000 That's where we have insight and judgment and we can see ourselves and how we function in our behavior.
00:31:36.000 People who can't see themselves aren't aware of their deficits, if you know what I'm saying. 0.99
00:31:40.000 I mean, it sounds kind of circular.
00:31:42.000 You know, I work a lot with brain injury patients as well, auto accidents.
00:31:45.000 And when you survey the families, 95% of the families who define that that person has serious problems with their memory and their functioning and they can't cope, 0% of the patients saw it.
00:31:58.000 So the inside part of the brain is compromised.
00:32:01.000 They can't see it in themselves, which is horribly frightening.
00:32:05.000 That is probably the most fascinating thing I've ever heard on this show.
00:32:11.000 Basically, you're talking about...
00:32:13.000 So it removes the self-awareness that would allow one to critically observe changes in themselves from marijuana.
00:32:21.000 Precisely.
00:32:22.000 You know, I have some friends who are neurobiologists And you know, they call the prefrontal cortex the seat of the soul.
00:32:29.000 It's what makes you you.
00:32:30.000 If you've ever seen someone with a brain injury with damage to that part of the brain, and there are some famous studies, you know, neurology studies that prove this.
00:32:38.000 You change your frontal lobe, you change who you are.
00:32:41.000 So we're actually seeing damage in that part of the brain.
00:32:44.000 Again, it's evident on neuropsych testing.
00:32:46.000 It's evident on fMRI, which is functional MRI. It's evident on, you know, brain sections actually post-mortem.
00:32:53.000 So, you know, I don't know what more evidence we can use to show that THC is neurotoxic.
00:33:00.000 And it's neurotoxic in doses that are comparable to using once a week.
00:33:06.000 Right.
00:33:08.000 You change the frontal lobe, you change your heart.
00:33:10.000 You change my ear lobes, you change your heart.
00:33:11.000 I can get AM radio on these things.
00:33:12.000 I've got giant ears.
00:33:14.000 But not to be, again, immature, but I have to be because I'm terribly uncomfortable with serious subjects.
00:33:18.000 That really is fascinating to me, and I didn't really know that about the frontal lobe.
00:33:22.000 I will have to go and do my own research because I know that I don't know a lot about the frontal lobe, and what you're saying sounds reasonable.
00:33:22.000 And I will tell you this.
00:33:28.000 But I'm sure someone who was a pro-pot person could tell me something that sounded reasonable with the frontal lobe because I wouldn't be able to call them on it.
00:33:35.000 So again, we'll get these links up at louderwithcrowder.com and you can make your own informed decision.
00:33:39.000 Now, final sort of thought.
00:33:43.000 Here's the thing.
00:33:44.000 You have to understand.
00:33:45.000 This is broadcast on AM radio, right?
00:33:47.000 This show.
00:33:47.000 People are hearing it in Michigan and Alaska and a few other stations who are picking it up.
00:33:51.000 But it's really – it's big audiences online.
00:33:53.000 That's where we get this is online.
00:33:55.000 If you look at the top podcasts right now.
00:33:58.000 Let's just say out of the top 20 comedy or news and politics podcasts, people on there are all saying marijuana is benign.
00:34:06.000 It's fine.
00:34:08.000 You can smoke it and you'll be fine.
00:34:10.000 So those same people will say, well, listen, I'm not telling kids to light up.
00:34:14.000 I think cars are great.
00:34:15.000 I don't think a 14-year-old should drive.
00:34:17.000 So they create this...
00:34:20.000 This atmosphere where there's a lack of responsibility, right?
00:34:23.000 Where they say, I'm saying that an adult should be able to do what they want with their own body.
00:34:27.000 I'm not saying kids should use it.
00:34:29.000 But the ramifications with society reflect that that is the case.
00:34:34.000 I mean, Ann Arbor is a great example, right?
00:34:35.000 That's where you are.
00:34:37.000 I don't know if you've studied this, but I have.
00:34:39.000 Have you studied the numbers as far as once it was decriminalized in Ann Arbor, how usage increased among young people?
00:34:46.000 Well, I know it went up tremendously.
00:34:47.000 I don't know the numbers.
00:34:49.000 Do you?
00:34:49.000 Well, we actually included them in our last video, and I can get them up at light.
00:34:53.000 I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but one thing, again, anecdotally, we actually interviewed someone who we didn't include on camera, but who basically sold pot, right?
00:35:03.000 And he said, yeah, and then once it was decriminalized, I said, well, you'd be out of a job.
00:35:08.000 Because of the drug war, right?
00:35:10.000 If we legalized all drugs, all drug cartels would straighten up and fly right and there would be no more drug cartels.
00:35:15.000 They'd be working at Denny's.
00:35:16.000 That's the idea.
00:35:17.000 And he said, no, I just changed my business model, right?
00:35:20.000 It's more profitable for me to buy from the medical dispensaries and I sell it to the high school.
00:35:25.000 By the way, a high school that is right around the corner from you.
00:35:28.000 Oh, I know that.
00:35:29.000 I had patients who fell out of rehab who were out selling, and they were making $1,000 a week.
00:35:34.000 You know, it was their career.
00:35:36.000 I noticed when it became medically available in Michigan, there was a whole generation of kids who were starting high school right at that year who had increased impairments.
00:35:49.000 And a degree of mental illness that you wouldn't expect, given their family history, etc.
00:35:54.000 And a lot of these kids just fell off the grid.
00:35:56.000 I mean, they dropped out of high school.
00:35:58.000 And I don't know what the stats are from the high school, but I'm sure in the educational establishment, they may track this to see dropout rates and maybe not going on to college, that sort of thing.
00:36:10.000 So, the data will come.
00:36:12.000 Unfortunately, you know, it's gonna be too late for a lot of people.
00:36:15.000 It might be your kids, it might be your siblings, you know.
00:36:18.000 And, you know, I mean, if you look back even at tobacco, you know, we look back now about how big tobacco pushed it and, you know, it was not, you know, all of the dangers were hidden because there was so much money behind it.
00:36:29.000 And now we look back and think how evil that force was.
00:36:32.000 Well, look what they unleashed into society, this horribly addictive substance.
00:36:36.000 And it was, you know, a lot of things were not being brought to the foreground that were probably well known at the time.
00:36:43.000 Great comparison.
00:36:44.000 People don't ever think of the big marijuana lobby when it is absolutely humongous.
00:36:49.000 A lot of people don't understand that.
00:36:50.000 There are a lot of people with financial interests, just like big tobacco or just like big alcohol, who want to see it legalized.
00:36:57.000 And to do that, they have to In a soft way, present it as benign and harmless.
00:37:01.000 But we must go.
00:37:02.000 Dr.
00:37:02.000 Boniface, thank you so much for coming on.
00:37:04.000 We will get these links up at ladderwithcrader.com so people can make informed decisions.
00:37:09.000 And please come back.
00:37:10.000 Maybe next time we can talk about the possible dangers of heroin.
00:37:13.000 We'll speculate.
00:37:15.000 Okay.
00:37:16.000 Take care, Stephen.
00:37:17.000 Thank you, Doc.
00:37:18.000 Hey, if you liked video, check out our previous interview with Gary Wilson.
00:37:22.000 Is porn actually good for you?
00:37:24.000 Or check out this older video that we did on marijuana.