This week on The Dark Side Of, we have two guests, one a big fan of The New Adventures of Superman, and one who was one of our first guests on the show, Dean Cain. We talk about their favourite TV shows growing up in the 80s and 90s, and how they changed the way we think about pop culture.
00:01:11.000Actually, Andy Peters, who was a presenter out there in the UK, came on the show, and I was over there in the UK doing some promo, and I was aware every place you go, it's actually called something a little bit differently.
00:01:33.000I don't know, but maybe you need to wash out your toilet mouth, Milo, from the way you were talking and complaining about the technology before the break.
00:01:40.000Okay, so, Milo, you're a big fan of The New Adventures of Superman.
00:01:45.000Dean, do you find that there's a different kind of fan in the UK versus the United States?
00:02:00.000This was particularly true 20 years ago.
00:02:03.000It's not so much now because everything gets released at the same time.
00:02:07.000Internationally, you're showing something here on Netflix.
00:02:09.000It's all over the place and you can get it anywhere.
00:02:11.000Before, it was about 3 to 6, 8 to 10 months, maybe sometimes a year before the show would air in another country.
00:02:17.000So there were certain areas that the show did very well, the UK, Australia, France.
00:02:26.000I would imagine that like in Egypt, they would have to blur out, like we talked about, Terry Hatcher's bosoms in the intro, but in France, they would just Photoshop it so you could see nipple.
00:03:48.000Well, all the game shows, all the reality shows, all the stuff people like on Netflix is like remakes of 1990s and 1970s British TV shows.
00:03:57.000Orange is the New Black is a remake of Bad Girls from ITV in the 1990s.
00:04:02.000The one with Kevin Spacey, House of Cards, is a remake of something from the BBC. I mean, we invented all your good TV. I'm not going to argue with that.
00:04:09.000You know, the problem is they'll have to come to the United States to be successful.
00:04:12.000Milo's still upset that they let their number one draft pick get away.
00:06:54.000Okay, so we'll talk politics because we have an eclectic mix, and we were just talking about Kojak, and Dean Cain doesn't like being called a pretty boy.
00:07:21.000I was in a film called The Covenant, where it was like Chase Crawford, Stephen, all these, like, the pretty boys, the CW pretty boys, yeah.
00:08:42.000So, Dean, you said you were a libertarian last time you were on, and then we have Milo, who, for the record, is super gay, but is socially more conservative than you.
00:08:51.000I'm really not that much of a homosexual.
00:09:05.000I don't know if I'm that socially conservative.
00:09:07.000I know that I'm not a libertarian because a lot of my friends are libertarians.
00:09:11.000So many of my friends and colleagues are libertarians.
00:09:13.000But I sort of think it's all well and good until you realize that it would actually be better if your daughter did not grow up to be a crack whore.
00:09:20.000It is quite good to enforce some morality and maybe put incentives in the tax system to encourage people to behave well.
00:09:27.000And the other thing about libertarians is, on the whole, libertarians are such children.
00:09:46.000I mean, libertarianism is some great intellectual, philosophical sort of history and heritage of this movement, classicalism, J.S. Mill, and all the rest of it.
00:09:55.000And all they want to talk about is weed and hacking.
00:09:57.000And it drives me up the wall because there's some really useful and interesting things that they could say about the proper limits of government, but they never do.
00:10:02.000I'm guessing that you, Dean, are not obsessed with weed or hacking, but this is the impression I always get from libertarians.
00:10:11.000Well, I think it may be a slightly different definition in the UK or as it is here or the way I look at it.
00:10:15.000Maybe I'm just defining it differently because I'm very much a small government guy.
00:10:19.000Weed, as far as I'm concerned, legalize, regulate, tax it.
00:10:47.000I'm just socially a little more liberal, and that sort of lines me up, at least in the United States, I believe.
00:10:54.000I'm more hawkish when it comes to things dealing with the military and foreign policy than a lot of libertarians, and so it's hard to really define myself, but my views socially tend to be very libertarian.
00:11:04.000Let me ask you this because I think this could be an interesting discussion.
00:11:06.000So you saw the SCOTUS, the same-sex marriage, where basically, okay, it's across all states now, right?
00:12:12.000I'm more skeptical about same-sex marriage, mostly because I think it makes homosexuals really boring.
00:12:16.000I mean, the only good thing about being gay was, you know, it was being able to sort of break all the rules, stumble out of a club bleary-eyed at 4 p.m.
00:12:23.000on a Monday afternoon, and nobody could judge you.
00:12:25.000You know, the good thing about being gay is that gay marriage, this is just society's way of controlling dissident subcultures.
00:12:32.000You know, they just want us to sort of settle down, get a house and a car and adopt a child and have a terrible nine-to-five job and become just like everyone else.
00:12:40.000I mean, being gay, you could grow up being gay.
00:13:10.000My thoughts about the US are that what I don't like is a sort of setting of minority against minority, in this case, sort of religious rights versus homosexuals.
00:13:21.000And I think, personally, as a gay man looking at what's happening in the world today, my view is that sort of leftist, rightist, sort of LGBT people Activists are now pretty much speak with the voice and force of the establishment and it's people with faith that have to effectively in some ways are the insurgents and have to constantly reaffirm their rights and constantly be vigilant about being bullied by the media, being bullied by Establishments of all kinds.
00:13:50.000And when you see things like the Memories Pizza, you know, these sort of poor pizza shop owners who get hectored and pilloried and bullied into closing down their store because they don't want to make a cake for lesbians.
00:14:00.000I mean, you know, who would endorse lesbian marriage?
00:14:02.000Do you know what the domestic violence rate is for lesbians?
00:14:05.000I mean, you know, they beat the crap out of each other all the time.
00:14:11.000I mean, I can well imagine if I owned a cake shop.
00:14:55.000Look at the statistics on lesbian domestic violence.
00:14:59.000You can look up an article I wrote for Breitbart, which is called Attack of the Killer Dykes.
00:15:05.000I'm just making your life worse now, I'm sorry.
00:15:08.000I'm merely quoting a piece of journalism for your listeners.
00:15:12.000If you look this up, I put all the statistics down.
00:15:18.000The argument on gay marriage, whether it's lesbian or otherwise, is pretty much done and dusted.
00:15:23.000Whether or not it's for the Supreme Court to legislate or whether it's a state's rights thing seems to me secondary to what's happening in society generally, which is the anxious, hand-wringing, pearl-clutching, white middle-class bloggers who are setting minority against minority from You know, they're perches at Vox and Buzzfeed and Gawker and Vice and places like that.
00:15:42.000You know, pitting the religious against gays, pitting Hispanics against blacks.
00:15:47.000And for me, the next 10 years really of American politics is going to be not just about men and women fighting, but about minorities in open warfare with one another.
00:15:54.000And the gay marriage issue really is most interesting in that respect.
00:15:58.000The problem in the U.S. is that I think religious people are having their rights trampled on every day in service of this tiny minority who don't even care.
00:16:36.000No, I agree, and I do appreciate Milo's point of view.
00:16:39.000I think that a lot of people just don't know how to sort of package what you're saying, Milo, coming out of your mouth.
00:16:45.000Now, Dean, real quick, because you have those headphones, and you got a bunch of street cred last time we had you on the show, for those who are listening terrestrially.
00:16:51.000I mean, those are hardcore gamer headphones.
00:17:18.000I'm having to learn how to pitch it really quickly.
00:17:20.000Basically, the culture wars, which we're familiar with, you know, feminists and, you know...
00:17:26.000Authoritarians of all stripes who want to clamp down on creative freedom, tell people that art forms make people sexist and violent and racist and all the rest of it.
00:17:35.000Finally, these wars arrived in video games last year.
00:17:37.000And so gamers, unlike any other fandom, unlike comic books, fantasy, sci-fi, all of whom have toppled over and taken it and started self-flagellating about, you know, what an awful, diversity-less, you know, terrible, straight, white, male, patriarchal pursuit this is.
00:18:04.000We're not interested in your political warfare in something that we love, which we do precisely to escape from this kind of nonsense in the rest of the world.
00:18:14.000It's a sort of pitched battle between ordinary gamers on the one hand and on the other, the ranked masses of the media, all of whom bought this line about them being misogynistic losers.
00:18:25.000You know, feminist sort of critics and academics.
00:18:28.000And basically the whole establishment.
00:18:30.000And on the virtuous side was gamers and me.
00:18:34.000And I was reporting about these guys from sort of August, I think, last year, maybe September, about, you know, their fight.
00:18:42.000Adam Baldwin came in and was pretty big on it.
00:18:45.000No, but Adam Baldwin is like a hero figure to these guys.
00:18:48.000I think it was only sort of six months later he decided, you know what, It's not this.
00:18:53.000I'm just going to get into the trenches and really fight this with them.
00:18:56.000Quite rightly, he was a bit worried about all the allegations that were being flung around.
00:19:00.000But of course, Adam Baldwin, Christian Hoffsummer, American Enterprise Institute, various other people.
00:19:07.000But yeah, basically, you all know this Dean as an actor, As a Hollywood guy, you know, every once in a while somebody complains about something, you know, this is a sort of sexist misogynist representation, this unrealistic body type.
00:19:21.000All right, we need you to wrap it up, Miles, just before we go to the break.
00:19:48.000And apparently this is necessary when Milo comes on as a guest because Gay Jared is going to have to hit the oh crap button multiple times throughout that last segment.
00:19:57.000So for those of you who are still here, so Milo was just describing Gamergate.
00:20:00.000So I'm surprised, Dean, that you – I guess – well, I guess with the Comic-Con thing, maybe they wouldn't have brought it to your attention.
00:20:07.000But Adam Baldwin got in a lot of trouble even at an Australian Comic-Con where some people tried to ban him like – It's that big of a deal now where these Gamergate social justice warriors people, they're turning on people like you.
00:20:45.000If they want to throw me under the bus or come at me, go ahead.
00:20:49.000They're going to be very happy to hear that.
00:20:51.000My headline is going to read, Superman supports Gamergate.
00:20:54.000So, you know, they're going to be very happy to hear that.
00:20:56.000I'll put my stamp of approval on it, no doubt.
00:20:59.000Milo is going to chase you down like a gang from the film Warriors from 1979.
00:21:05.000It's going to be a pack of gay Englishmen, like instead of the Baseball Furies, and they're going to come at you just to take you out for a nice steak dinner and most likely call you back, Dean.
00:21:16.000I never call them back in the morning.
00:24:22.000If I didn't know anything about her and I just saw her, I would say yes.
00:24:27.000Yeah, I've thought that was a very reasonable suspicion for a long time.
00:24:30.000And I remember saying it at a meeting room in MSNBC, and they were like, shocked.
00:24:34.000I was like, come on, even if you don't think it, you can't be shocked.
00:24:37.000You know, like if she were my neighbor, and I moved in, and assuming I didn't know what a horrible person she was, to begin with, I would be friendly with her.
00:24:43.000And I would like tiptoe around like, Oh, is she?
00:26:07.000I mean, full disclosure, I've known Ben for a long time and had him on this show before it was even a show when he was doing problem time propaganda.
00:27:10.000Zoe afterwards on Facebook, Milo, if you weren't seeing, Zoe blocked me, but every single thing Zoe was tweeting was like, look who's trending on Facebook!
00:27:20.000And everything was like, look, I'm trending, I'm trending, and you could just, and now Zoe is turning on Bruce Jenner, Caitlyn Jenner, to get more airtime.
00:27:27.000This is someone who just craves attention.
00:27:30.000Well, you know, some people say that transgenderism is a psychiatric disorder that ought to be in the DSM somewhere near, for example, bipolar and narcissistic personality disorder.
00:27:41.000And they get very upset when you say this, but, you know, just look at the prominent transsexuals, and even not prominent, if you happen to know any personal life, I know one, you know, and tell me that they don't have a touch of NPD about them.
00:27:54.000I mean, you know, these people crave attention more than they crave, you know, I mean, it's an extraordinary thing.
00:28:03.000What worries me more is that we're creating this sort of privileged class of victims, I think, in America, where if you belong to a particular group or you have a certain disease, you can basically get away with saying anything.
00:28:15.000I didn't find her a threat on the TV as shocking as I found Well, let me say something.
00:28:57.000Well, it's like 90-something percent of them don't do it.
00:28:59.000But she went on – I mean, there's a satirist, a great satirist called Godfrey Elf, who's a sort of social media satirist, and he takes the piss out of feminism.
00:29:08.000Anyway, he's absolutely great, and you must follow him.
00:29:10.000But he tweeted her – he likes to goad sort of very left-wing celebrities pretending to agree with their points of view.
00:29:17.000So they sort of get locked into conversation, and then he drops a bomb on them.
00:29:19.000But he sort of – he referred to – Ben Shapiro is a neo-Nazi, or to better reason to have supporters as a neo-Nazi.
00:31:42.000What it showed is not only is there no improvement in suicide rates post-surgery, but most studies show that more people commit suicide after surgery than they would have done if they didn't have it.
00:31:51.000So they're not even going to get to...
00:31:52.000I mean, way before the cancer starts metastasizing, they'll already hang themselves in their living room.
00:31:58.000So I don't think we need to worry about cancer.
00:32:58.000The trajectory of pressure is only ever in one direction, and that's because, for example, the same people who want all of, you know, women to be allowed into men's spaces and want to be able to take over men's sports are the same people who are complaining that women's football is less highly remunerated.
00:33:13.000Well, it's less highly remunerated because it's incredibly fucking dull and enormously boring.
00:33:30.000But, you know, there are boy girls and girl girls, and the boy girls are faster and better, and they make more money, and that's definitely reasonable.
00:33:36.000But, yeah, no, you never see people who want, you know, boys injected into girls' sports.
00:33:42.000Well, it's even funny, you know, at a local grappling tournament, there was this girl who looked like Chaz Bono, was clearly transitioning to become a man.
00:33:50.000I mean, had a little bit of peach fuzz, was clearly going through it, yet still competed as a woman at the grappling tournaments.
00:34:58.000Okay, if a man is on steroids, the highest-priced designer steroids humanly possible, they still don't enjoy the hormonal advantage over me that I enjoy over a woman.
00:35:11.000Well, you know about the hockey thing, right?
00:35:13.000The American women's Olympic hockey team plays high school hockey teams and loses.
00:35:21.000High school boys hockey teams and loses.
00:35:23.000They consider it to be really tough preparation for the Olympic competitions.
00:35:27.000The women's Olympic hockey team play like high school boys and lose, but they think that's basically the best team they can find to play against.
00:36:03.000You're thin and gorgeous and wonderful, and you have all of the sort of social power you could ever want over every man that you ever come into contact with.
00:36:50.000I mean, there's a reason, you know, sex is the reason we made it to the moon.
00:36:54.000Sex is the reason we have the internet.
00:36:55.000Sex is the reason that human civilization has developed as it has, and that's why men do it and not women.
00:37:01.000It's not sort of entrenched patriarchy and sexism.
00:37:03.000Men have the competitive aspirational drive in them because they want to have sex with more women.
00:37:10.000You know, that's why men go out and build things.
00:37:12.000It's not because they're, you know, sort of, Hangover stereotypes from an older sort of you know Heterogeneous, oppressive era.
00:37:19.000It's because men want to have sex with women, so they want to impress them.
00:37:22.000I mean, there's not rocket science or some sort of remarkable sociological insight, but it's something that is now completely taboo to express anywhere in the media in America today.
00:37:34.000Yeah, well, Dean doesn't understand it because he would just have to walk out and go, you, you, you.
00:37:40.000Full disclosure, I want to have sex with women.
00:38:39.000See, my teenage gaydar was not as refined then as it is now.
00:38:44.000Well, I guess that's just sort of something we've talked about.
00:38:48.000Listen, I'm a Christian, I'm a conservative, and so you know where I line up on the same-sex marriage issue as societal ramifications.
00:38:54.000But I've also sort of broken with a lot of Christians where I think people have sexual proclivities, just like I prefer blondes to brunettes.
00:39:02.000And I just even was thinking about it.
00:39:03.000I was watching Lois and Clark Looking at Terry Hatcher.
00:39:07.000Milo was watching New Adventures of Superman looking at Dean Cain.
00:40:26.000Well, I always, because, you know, a lot of people have sort of missed these, they have these misconceptions about what people make in the entertainment industry sometimes.
00:40:33.000And there are some people, you know, who are ringing that register really highly.
00:40:36.000But TV, I mean, obviously, listen, you weren't begging on the street, you were paid well, but TV has, the salaries have just skyrocketed, like in the last decade.
00:40:45.000I think you have kids growing up now who don't really realize that for a long time there was sort of this division, right?
00:40:50.000And now it's like, I mean, these salaries you see in TV are just unreal.
00:43:51.000When you spend a lot of time with a lot of different men, you realize men are basically very, very easy to deal with and We're fundamentally all the same.
00:44:53.000I mean, I'm like high-end 6'3", more really 6'3", when I was measured, but I have two herniated discs now, and that'll take you down a little bit.
00:45:01.000But yeah, still, I mean, listen, six foot, what are you, 215, 220?
00:45:43.000Okay, we'll keep Dean on because he doesn't have to go to the BBC. And we'll wrap it up with him where he doesn't have to feel so uncomfortable because you're clearly undressing him with your eyes.
00:47:37.000That started, it's funny, there was a rumor that started that I remember that I was gay because I was with, well, I don't want to add him, but he's another conservative who's openly gay, but he doesn't talk about it a lot.
00:47:45.000And so I went with him in New York to like a gay bar.
00:50:43.000Well, I'm actually starting to train a little bit now just because being a dad, my biggest problem is I have psoriasis, so I have psoriatic arthritis.
00:50:53.000That's an aggressive disease that goes after your joints.
00:50:55.000So there would be days I would wake up, I didn't know that came from psoriasis because I have some pretty bad joint problems and I've always got the dry, patchy skin in the winter, but I don't know if that's psoriasis.
00:51:19.000But what has become more now is I'm working with a group called the Beverly Hills Rejuvenation Center and I'm balancing my hormones because they were all jacked up.
00:53:56.000You know what we should do is we should get you, you know, my dad is competitive, he's 50, just had cancer, just had it cut out, 54, and he hasn't had a point scored against him.
00:54:06.000We should have you and him, like, do a session where he teaches you some grappling and just, you know, you're almost 50, he's past 50, just as an inspirational dealer.
00:54:16.000People are like, hey, look, I don't have to be a fat piece of crap at that age.
00:54:20.000Exactly, but he's going to whip my ass.
00:54:22.000Yeah, I mean, very few people, he would not.
00:54:41.000We're very old school with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
00:54:43.000I'm sure you're probably familiar with it, but it's sort of evolved into a hyperly technical sport, and we're both old school in that we always worked on solid takedowns and basic control, stuff that would work in an actual altercation.
00:54:55.000Definitely not as good as a collegiate wrestler or anything like that, but you have a base, and if you did that, you'd have some body awareness.
00:56:46.000The guy literally, and I hear, pop, pop, pop, crack!
00:56:51.000And I look over, and my dad just, like, sitting there, like, not crying, but the eyes are just watering, like he's been hitting the nose, you're just, like, holding it.
00:56:58.000And so I went over to this Indian market next door and got some ice, and then I choked the guy pretty bad, because, you know, you have to.
00:57:06.000Yeah, but it was in a match, you know, and I didn't choke him unconscious, but I was like, I held it a little bit longer, because he was warned.
00:57:12.000You probably should have choked him unconscious.
00:57:44.000But he just didn't do anything for a long time, and we do a lot of, like right now, I have a pretty serious back injury, so I haven't done jiu-jitsu in a few months.
00:57:51.000But every day, I'll get on the, well, you probably know the airdyne if you wrestle.
00:57:54.000I'll get on the airdyne, and just mentally I go through positions, and literally just mentally treat it like a grappling session every single day.
00:58:23.000I was sort of seeing a play that I know was coming, stepping in, making the right play, doing all those same things, the right move, the right position, the right reads.
00:58:30.000And I ran that over in my head, but I wasn't taught to do that.
01:00:18.000We had one little highlight tape from my senior year of the whole school, of the whole season for each game was sort of broken down, a few plays, and then one televised game.
01:02:14.000There was like a grappling club for troubled kids at school.
01:02:16.000And I was like a troubled – I wasn't really a troubled kid because I came in like, well, does your dad beat the shit out of you or something?
01:02:24.000And I was like kind of okay, but I wasn't great.
01:02:27.000And then I was like, well, let me go into judo.
01:02:28.000And there was this crazy Romanian communist who taught me and he was like, well, go compete.
01:02:32.000So I don't really know the rules in judo at this point.
01:02:35.000I'm thinking jujitsu, right, where I'm just trying to drag a guy down and choke him.
01:02:38.000And what it was was, you know, there's something called ipan, which is if you throw someone hard on their back or it's a clean throw, it's like a knockout.
01:03:40.000He's like bleeding from his nose and then he comes back like looking at him like, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this guy's going to be really mad.
01:07:40.000Now, it's no secret that Tyra Banks' weight has fluctuated.
01:07:44.000And then for Black History Month, she's like, in honor of Black History Month, I am going to recreate the photo shoot of the first black woman on the Cover Sports Illustrated.
01:14:39.000But I tweet Twitter, tweet Twitter, I treat Twitter, ooh, tongue-tied, the same as I would, you know, like talking to somebody in their face.
01:14:47.000There's nothing I'm going to say on Twitter that I wouldn't say to your face, and I think everybody should treat it that way.
01:21:15.000Yeah, I've heard, well, Henner just always, you know, Henner was one of the pallbearers, and I've only heard good things, but that's a great example.
01:21:20.000Like, a guy like that, who's that big, I mean, it might as well even be a different species when you're 340.