Louder with Crowder - February 21, 2015


PORN! Is it Actually Good For You? || Louder With Crowder


Episode Stats


Length

29 minutes

Words per minute

178.56165

Word count

5,214

Sentence count

352

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Hate speech

7

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Dr. Gary Wilson is a neuroscientist and author who has written a book on porn addiction, Your Brain on Porn. In this episode, Dr. Wilson talks about how he became interested in porn and how he and his wife created a website dedicated to helping men recover from porn addiction.

Transcript

Transcripts from "Louder with Crowder" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:02.000 We are back.
00:00:03.000 Thank you for joining us.
00:00:04.000 I'm incredibly excited for the next guest, especially in this culture.
00:00:08.000 We've talked about this, where you have kids online.
00:00:12.000 There's such a generational gap in the access of information, and it's never been more apparent than with pornography.
00:00:20.000 This guy has actually talked about it, written the book on it, Your Brain on Porn, yourbrainonporn.com.
00:00:27.000 Gary Wilson, thank you so much for coming on.
00:00:27.000 Mr.
00:00:29.000 Hey, it's my pleasure.
00:00:31.000 Gary, firstly, explain to us what was it that got you into studying porn or getting this message out there?
00:00:42.000 It seems like there's got to be a story behind that.
00:00:45.000 There's a story, but it's rather strange.
00:00:47.000 I was an anatomy and physiology teacher for many years.
00:00:50.000 I met my wife, and we started to write books about the neurobiology of sex, love, and bonding.
00:00:57.000 And that was about 15 years ago and she had a website and we had articles up there which had the words orgasm, ejaculation, dopamine, addiction, because those are related to bonding and love and sex.
00:01:10.000 Now, about nine years ago, maybe it was ten years ago, guys started showing up on her website, Forum, which had nothing to do with porn.
00:01:18.000 It was about relationships.
00:01:20.000 And started to post and say, hey, I'm addicted to porn and my penis doesn't work.
00:01:24.000 Can you help us?
00:01:25.000 And she's like, what are you doing here?
00:01:28.000 Well, Google, as it is, put the words in those articles together, which brought them there and then put the posts that they had, put those out there and brought more guys there.
00:01:38.000 And then over the next few years, it became sort of a porn recovery for them.
00:01:43.000 And these were older guys.
00:01:45.000 When I say older guys, they were in their 30s, 40s, and they had high-speed internet before anyone else, but they were complaining about sexual dysfunction.
00:01:53.000 Well, around 2009, we started to write articles on Psychology Today about these amazing benefits that they started to experience because we tried to get the word out because it seems like there was a huge gap between what was really happening and what was going on in these guys' lives.
00:02:12.000 So that brought a whole lot more guides, and my wife said, you've got to create a separate website.
00:02:18.000 I created yourbrainonporn.com about four years ago, and then that blew up, and I followed all the links to it back to the original post, and I saw how big the problem was.
00:02:28.000 Let me ask you real quick.
00:02:29.000 Is your background, I guess, at all sort of psychology or psychiatry, or was it just something that you fell in accidentally?
00:02:36.000 Physiology.
00:02:37.000 Physiology teacher.
00:02:39.000 Okay.
00:02:40.000 So no psychology.
00:02:41.000 Okay.
00:02:42.000 So this is just something you came into because, like, I guess, business owners in a lot of ways, you saw a need and were meeting a demand.
00:02:51.000 Now, right away, before your critics come out and say, this is just, you know, they've always said this to people who've ever been dissenters of the pornography industry, this is just some crazy right-wing Christian extremist who's trying to scare your kids. 0.52
00:03:03.000 That's not really the case here.
00:03:05.000 No, I'm a very far left liberal who's not religious and never been a Christian, neither has my wife or my parents or my grandparents.
00:03:14.000 So nope, I wanted nothing to do with this.
00:03:17.000 And we just felt compelled because there was this blind spot.
00:03:20.000 And when you have guys writing you and telling you that they're suicidal because their penises don't work and they're not getting good information and the urologists are saying, you know, just take some Viagra.
00:03:30.000 There's nothing we can do.
00:03:31.000 We felt compelled.
00:03:32.000 So we did write about it.
00:03:34.000 No, it's incredible.
00:03:34.000 Right.
00:03:36.000 And there are a few things that I've seen you mention before in other interviews and obviously in your book.
00:03:43.000 One of them was you talked about, which to me was just fascinating.
00:03:47.000 I don't have the exact number, so I'm sure you've got this.
00:03:49.000 You're like the computer wore tennis shoes.
00:03:51.000 I've seen your interviews and TED Talks.
00:03:53.000 there's a generation of young men who have had a certain amount of sexual experiences.
00:03:58.000 You've said, you've numbered it in the thousands, you know, sexual experiences who for the first time have had all of these experiences without any actual sexual interaction with another human being.
00:04:10.000 Right.
00:04:11.000 What was that number?
00:04:12.000 Well, I don't know that I put any number to it because there's no numbers to it in terms of, I read something, I could be misquoting it, where you talked about how there's a point now where you have kids who, I think it was a certain percentage, aren't even actually interested in real sexual interaction, and many of them have had certain sexual experiences based, you know, with pornography, but no actual sexual interaction, and there was a number in there that I remember just shocked me.
00:04:39.000 So I'm not pulling it out of nowhere, there was a number that shocked me.
00:04:42.000 No, no, no, I think what you're saying is, you're looking at Japan, so Japan...
00:04:46.000 36% of young men ages 16 to 19 had absolutely no interest in sex.
00:04:54.000 And that number doubled from 2008.
00:04:57.000 So we see a tremendous rise in Japanese young men who had technology ahead of the game, and they are okay with porn over there. 1.00
00:05:08.000 It's just unfathomable to me that a teenage guy would have no interest in that.
00:05:13.000 Yeah, to me either.
00:05:14.000 I mean, I'll tell you what, even as a Christian conservative, it was like a full-time job just thinking about it.
00:05:21.000 It was exhausting.
00:05:23.000 I always tell women when they go, is that all you guys think about, well, from about age 14 through, you know, 20?
00:05:29.000 Yes, literally.
00:05:32.000 It is pretty fascinating, again, that you're sort of a liberal, not interested in religion.
00:05:37.000 You really make the argument in the book, like you said, the physiological arguments, the arguments about dopamine receptors and the way neurochemistry is affected.
00:05:47.000 Have you met a lot of pushback?
00:05:49.000 Before we get into that, which we'll get into the next segment, have you gotten a lot of pushback from either the porn industry or other so-called progressives?
00:05:56.000 Gotten no pushback whatsoever from the porn industry.
00:05:59.000 Got some pushback from...
00:06:01.000 Some academic sexologists who don't like the idea that you can suggest that porn use may cause some problems.
00:06:10.000 So there's a small vocal group of sexologists and academic sexologists who do push back quite a bit.
00:06:17.000 Yeah.
00:06:18.000 Well, I even read something in The Atlantic where they talked about...
00:06:20.000 And we'll get into the studies just because we have to take a break relatively soon here.
00:06:24.000 And there's a lot of data to get into.
00:06:26.000 But I will say, I'm surprised that you say that about the adult film industry.
00:06:29.000 Because I have seen videos and posts online of people saying, you know, online porn is healthy and don't believe the fear mongers here who are trying to scare you out of it.
00:06:39.000 But maybe they're just not emailing you directly.
00:06:42.000 Well, I just think that comes from people who are progressive or...
00:06:47.000 Even Christians or whatever, and they just like to use porn, and they're mixing up what occurred in the 70s where you're looking at a still picture and you're a 14-year-old and you can use your imagination. 0.95
00:06:58.000 All you can think about is...
00:06:59.000 Hold on one second.
00:07:00.000 We have to go to this break, and we will be right back.
00:07:00.000 Hold that thought.
00:07:02.000 Lighter with Crowder.
00:07:03.000 We are back with Gary Wilson, author of Your Brain on Porn, or go to the website, yourbrainonporn.com.
00:07:09.000 It's not that kind of website.
00:07:10.000 Gary Wilson, thanks for being back.
00:07:12.000 Now, before we left...
00:07:14.000 You are about to get into some information here, which I also find fascinating.
00:07:19.000 Listen, I'm always pretty straightforward.
00:07:21.000 I'm a more right-leaning guy, and personally, I'm a Christian.
00:07:25.000 So obviously, Christians have talked about for a long time how pornography can be harmful to one's sex life, namely because it creates unrealistic expectations of sex, and Christians believe it's something that should be kept between a husband and a wife.
00:07:38.000 Now, I know that's not necessarily your contention with this book, but...
00:07:42.000 You do talk about how porn has changed in the landscape of the internet.
00:07:48.000 Like you said, at one point, the mild pornography required the use of your imagination, whereas now that's not the case.
00:07:56.000 And you even sort of draw some parallels, I remember, with Facebook and this sort of instant gratification addiction of the internet.
00:08:02.000 Tell us a bit about that.
00:08:03.000 I find it fascinating.
00:08:05.000 Well, you know, you think about it.
00:08:06.000 We've had pictures...
00:08:08.000 And words around for a long time, but all of a sudden you see this entire generation stuck with their iPhones clicking on pictures and words and videos.
00:08:16.000 So what makes it so fascinating is the delivery system, the internet.
00:08:21.000 And what the internet does is it takes advantage of innate mechanisms that are pretty much there in the reward centers of a mammal.
00:08:31.000 And the first one is novelty.
00:08:33.000 The reward center lights up with dopamine for such things as food and sex and achievement, but also for novelty.
00:08:41.000 Anything new grabs the attention and you get little bursts of dopamine that make you want to go for it.
00:08:48.000 Right.
00:08:48.000 So, of course, the internet, you can just click, click, click endlessly and keep your dopamine spiking forever.
00:08:54.000 But here's what's interesting, is not only with internet porn do we have endless novelty available, but we have Nature's highest reward of dopamine, which is sexual stimulation, and nature's number one priority, which is reproduction.
00:09:09.000 Then you combine it with other things that raise dopamine in animals, and that's such things as shock or surprise or even anxiety.
00:09:20.000 Those things also raise dopamine, and what's not shocking or surprising or even anxiety It's even shocking just reading the transcripts from Dick Morris' fetishes.
00:09:37.000 So I can imagine when you're actually seeing something that depraved on camera.
00:09:42.000 And I think you mentioned, too, I've heard you mention, I want to clarify for the listener, not only novelty, but specifically with dopamine, you know, novelty, you included the exceeding of expectations, you know, which basically happens all the time online, right?
00:09:55.000 If I say, hey, I want to research, I don't know, coffee mugs in World War II, boom!
00:10:01.000 There's more than I could ever read on coffee mugs in World War II in a lifetime, right?
00:10:06.000 And that causes a spike in dopamine, and you're combining that with sex.
00:10:11.000 Yeah, so what makes dopamine go up isn't necessarily food because you can keep eating and you're just like, oh, I don't want to eat anymore.
00:10:19.000 Right.
00:10:19.000 So that your dopamine is going down.
00:10:21.000 What makes it go up is violation of expectations.
00:10:25.000 We use regular terms like shock, surprise, anxiety, the unexpected.
00:10:25.000 There you go.
00:10:30.000 That's what makes bungee jumping or horror films exciting.
00:10:33.000 Sure.
00:10:34.000 Because they shock us.
00:10:36.000 That is set up in all mammals to raise dopamine, and that means that it's like, oh, this is more than what I expected.
00:10:44.000 This is more.
00:10:45.000 This is different than what I expected.
00:10:47.000 I was just looking for a guy and a girl having a good time, and it involves two midgets, a tricycle, and a parrot.
00:10:52.000 What happened here?
00:10:54.000 Or as the young guys describe when they're 12 years old, they're getting interested as the hormones come up and they put in boobs.
00:11:01.000 And not boobs come up, but my God, this crazy stuff that isn't even sex comes up.
00:11:08.000 And it's videos, which videos are far more engaging than pictures.
00:11:14.000 And the other thing to know about videos is they actually co-op and replace imagination in young men.
00:11:20.000 Right.
00:11:20.000 Well, one thing too, I will say this, you know, as someone who, I mean, people will be watching this interview right here on YouTube.
00:11:26.000 We do it terrestrially on radio.
00:11:27.000 We podcast, but we get it on YouTube, right?
00:11:29.000 So let me give you an idea here.
00:11:30.000 People watch my videos on average for over four minutes.
00:11:33.000 So the average retention rate is 62% because they have some longer videos, right?
00:11:38.000 That with YouTube is an incredible retention rate.
00:11:41.000 If you're keeping people past 30% or 40% of a video, it's considered amazing, and that allows you to get a premium advertising revenue.
00:11:48.000 I'm getting a little technical here, but the reason I say that is because my living depends on creating things that are quick, interesting enough, and the rule of thumb is always shorter, shorter, shorter.
00:11:58.000 Because people's attention spans have noticeably – I mean they're measurably shorter than before.
00:12:05.000 And I know that applies to YouTube, right?
00:12:08.000 But I don't have the data or analytics.
00:12:10.000 Does that apply to pornography sites?
00:12:13.000 Do they have to create more bang for your buck in the shortest amount of time, which would seem to lend itself to, like you said, a little more shocking in a little less time, right?
00:12:21.000 Yeah, absolutely.
00:12:23.000 So if you look at what changed, everything changed in 2006 with the invention of YouTube, and then that created two sites.
00:12:30.000 And often, you have in the sidebars on a porn site, you have little three-minute clips.
00:12:35.000 And so you can just go from three-minute clip to three-minute clip.
00:12:39.000 But most guys describe that they can't even laugh through a three-minute clip.
00:12:42.000 They're bored, so they'll go to the next one and the next one.
00:12:45.000 And then eventually what came up were compilation videos where you just have four or five seconds of a bunch of orgasms and ejaculations lined up and people just watch those end on end.
00:12:56.000 Gosh.
00:12:57.000 I don't know if we can say that on air.
00:12:59.000 Just be careful because the FCC does monitor this.
00:13:01.000 But I think it's medical, so we'll clear it.
00:13:03.000 It's medical.
00:13:04.000 I'm a physiology teacher.
00:13:07.000 Just wear your lab coat and it's fine.
00:13:11.000 Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt your point, but I was going, oh gosh, I don't know which words we can't...
00:13:16.000 I think this is uncharted territory.
00:13:17.000 It's the same reason a lot of people are afraid of talking about this on traditional content.
00:13:23.000 So there you go.
00:13:23.000 There's the irony, right?
00:13:24.000 The problem comes with new media and the problem comes with the internet and instant gratification.
00:13:28.000 But on the flip side, you also have a form and you get to bypass the media filters who might not necessarily agree with your viewpoint.
00:13:35.000 Right.
00:13:36.000 You know, and here's the thing about when you're watching something.
00:13:40.000 So people talk about dopamine and I talk about dopamine and how it's raised, but what's the end result of dopamine?
00:13:46.000 Dopamine's there to wire into your brain so that you will repeat that behavior because it thinks that behavior is further your survival or the survival of your genes.
00:13:57.000 So it thinks that in some level that you're actually impregnating a real person.
00:14:02.000 But it's wiring in all the associations with that experience while you're watching porn.
00:14:08.000 So what does that mean to a young guy?
00:14:09.000 That means to a young guy that it's wiring in not touch and being touched and real interaction, but it's wiring in sitting, being a voyeur, Clicking from scene to scene, controlling your dopamine with a mouse, shock, surprise, multiple tabs.
00:14:28.000 That's what you're training your brain to become sexually aroused to because that's what dopamine is telling.
00:14:34.000 Be aroused to this so that you will repeat this.
00:14:37.000 It's like a Hitchcock film.
00:14:40.000 You're breeding a bunch of kids who are sitting there with binoculars going, I'm looking at you through the window.
00:14:46.000 Put your foot in his mouth, literally. 0.73
00:14:49.000 It's fascinating that you talk about that.
00:14:52.000 I'm sure there was some of that, right?
00:14:54.000 Even when people were looking at a dirty magazine.
00:14:57.000 I don't know.
00:14:58.000 We didn't have the same data, though.
00:15:00.000 It's the same reason we talk about this right now.
00:15:02.000 You're really talking about an evolution of human consumption of information since 2006.
00:15:09.000 I mean, that's the number you just threw.
00:15:10.000 How fascinating is that, that everything has changed since 2006?
00:15:15.000 We don't really have, and that's the criticism I've seen sort of leveled against you, is people say, well, a lot of it is hypothetical because we don't really have enough numbers back yet because the generation who grew up on instant porn as much as they want, they're not really adults with families of their own yet, a lot of them.
00:15:34.000 Well, here's the deal.
00:15:35.000 So let's look at the actual data.
00:15:37.000 So there are 95 brain studies on internet addiction brain studies.
00:15:41.000 All 95 show the same brain changes as seen in drug addicts.
00:15:45.000 What does that tell us?
00:15:46.000 That tells us that audio-visual stimulation, when done in excess, can cause the same brain changes as drug addiction.
00:15:54.000 So that's not arguable.
00:15:56.000 Now, in the last year, there's been three brain studies on porn users.
00:16:00.000 Guess what those three found?
00:16:02.000 The same brain changes that occur with those who have drug addiction.
00:16:07.000 It also found in both of those studies that the more porn used, the less arousal to sexual images.
00:16:14.000 And in one of the studies, 60% of the subjects who were porn addicted had trouble getting erections with real people, but not with porn.
00:16:22.000 So that's three for three.
00:16:24.000 So in fact, all of the actual hard evidence is pointing in one direction.
00:16:28.000 Hard evidence.
00:16:29.000 It's ironic because there is none.
00:16:31.000 Listen, I'm sorry.
00:16:32.000 You walked right into it.
00:16:32.000 Come on.
00:16:33.000 You're the physiologist.
00:16:34.000 I'm the comic hack.
00:16:37.000 That is fascinating to me.
00:16:39.000 And I know you make the argument that it's almost a public health issue.
00:16:44.000 I don't necessarily want to get into the legislative component of this because I'm more so interested in just the physiological ramifications.
00:16:49.000 So let me ask you this, okay?
00:16:51.000 What's the endgame for laymans out there?
00:16:55.000 For someone's brain, right, who's grown up, let's say, from they were 12 in 2006 when all of this porn became instantaneous, right, just completely readily available.
00:17:06.000 What's the endgame in their brain where they end up if they're watching porn and click, click, click every day versus someone from the previous generation who didn't have access to that?
00:17:16.000 Well, that's a hard question to answer for an individual, but there's two things that go on in the brain that you don't even have to have addiction with, and that's sexual conditioning.
00:17:24.000 You can look at sexual conditioning in two ways.
00:17:26.000 One, as a young man, you're conditioning your sexual arousal to sitting and clicking and being a voyeur.
00:17:33.000 Or, as a young man, you're conditioning your sexual arousal to certain acts.
00:17:39.000 So those acts you may want to replay out in real life because that's what you've masturbated to for the last five years before you actually had a date with a girl.
00:17:48.000 So those two things are occurring.
00:17:51.000 One study was done and it found a tremendous increase in anal sex and when it asked these young people, 16 to 18, why they were doing it, neither the males nor the females were sure except they both pointed to porn and they also Neither the males nor the females enjoyed it, but they felt compelled to do it because they thought that's what they were supposed to do.
00:18:13.000 That's sexual conditioning to ask.
00:18:15.000 Wow.
00:18:16.000 So it's almost like, you know, hey, smoke the cigarette, Johnny.
00:18:19.000 It'll make you cool.
00:18:21.000 Only it's, hey, let's do page 85 of this weird sex book or page 56 of PornTube.
00:18:28.000 It's almost like a cyber peer pressure that people aren't even realizing.
00:18:33.000 Yes, because, you know, the guys are exchanging videos, they're exchanging stuff at school, they're talking about it, and they're watching it, and they think it's normal, because they're watching real people have real sex and supposedly real orgasms, And they think that this is the way it's done because this is all they know.
00:18:53.000 This is what they do for years.
00:18:56.000 That is pretty...
00:18:56.000 Wow.
00:18:58.000 And I know I keep saying this.
00:19:00.000 It's insane to really think about.
00:19:02.000 That's going to be an entire generation of young men.
00:19:06.000 I mean, what's that going to cause in the workplace?
00:19:09.000 What's that going to cause?
00:19:10.000 I mean, think about this.
00:19:11.000 In the year 20...
00:19:14.000 I don't know, 42.
00:19:15.000 The guy who's running for president had access to all of this porn.
00:19:21.000 And you know most likely was at the very least dabbling unless he was in a church youth group.
00:19:26.000 Think about that.
00:19:27.000 These people are going to be building our planes and leading our countries.
00:19:31.000 That's messed up.
00:19:33.000 Well, you know, here's another thing.
00:19:35.000 You know, you're talking about what's it like for young guys.
00:19:38.000 Well, here's a little...
00:19:40.000 A lot of the guys only stop when they have porn-induced erectile dysfunction.
00:19:45.000 And what we've seen is that the older guys in their 40s and 50s can often recover erectile functioning.
00:19:52.000 Hey, Gary, can I hold you on for the next segment?
00:19:54.000 Because I know that's going to take a little bit of time, and I've read that part in your book.
00:19:58.000 It's fascinating.
00:19:59.000 Gary Wilson, we'll be right back, louder with Crowder.
00:20:01.000 Right back in, wasting no time because right before the break, the last word was erectile dysfunction.
00:20:08.000 Bam! 0.98
00:20:08.000 Gary Wilson of YourBrainOnPorn.com is back with us. 0.98
00:20:11.000 Gary, please finish the thought that you had before I so rudely had to take us to break.
00:20:16.000 Yeah, so what I was trying to say is that the older man who developed erectile dysfunction, it's an interesting thing.
00:20:23.000 First, most of them had no problems.
00:20:25.000 They've been using porn for 30 years, but they didn't develop erectile dysfunction until after the advent of tube sites.
00:20:31.000 They said that was a big game changer.
00:20:33.000 Then they would heal in about six to eight weeks.
00:20:37.000 They'd be back functioning fine, strong as ever.
00:20:39.000 Now, over the last two to four years, we've seen young guys showing up in their twenties, sometimes in their teens, with chronic erectile dysfunction.
00:20:50.000 And it's taking them from six to 12 months, sometimes two years to recover.
00:20:56.000 And even when they're recovered, they're still not completely solid.
00:20:59.000 So it's taking them So much longer, even though they're younger, healthier, have more testosterone, and just have better everything, yet it's taking them longer.
00:21:08.000 This shows you the power of conditioning your sexual response during adolescence when the brain is highly malleable and when you're pruning down all these nerve connections to rewire yourself to your sexual environment.
00:21:23.000 And that's what they're doing, and their sexual environment is sitting and watching porn.
00:21:28.000 Okay, let me ask you this, because, again, you said you've not gotten pushback from the adult film industry.
00:21:34.000 I've seen some online.
00:21:36.000 I have, I have.
00:21:37.000 Maybe they're just not emailing you, or maybe you have them on block because you have an incredible spam filter that filters out anything porny.
00:21:43.000 But they argue, right, that this is fear-mongering, that it's perfectly fine and porn can and should be used in a healthful way.
00:21:54.000 Now, I know where I line up on that.
00:21:56.000 But you, as someone who does not have, I guess, a moral dog in the fight, you know, do you think there is a way for porn to be used healthily?
00:22:06.000 Should that be encouraged?
00:22:07.000 Or do you think it's just something that should be avoided for young men?
00:22:11.000 Well, you know, first you have to say what type of porn.
00:22:14.000 I mean, if young guys are looking at nude pictures or something like that, occasionally that might not be a problem.
00:22:22.000 But when you start watching videos, it could be a problem.
00:22:25.000 But here's the deal.
00:22:27.000 I mean, this is a hard subject and it's hard for me to describe what's really going on.
00:22:33.000 It's so much different now with the advent of the internet.
00:22:36.000 Even with nude pictures, we've had young guys who developed erectile dysfunction while using nude pictures, but they would go through about a thousand or two thousand of them in one masturbation session.
00:22:48.000 So you can't match that type of novelty in real life or in using magazines.
00:22:55.000 So the problem becomes you're training your brain to be a voyeur.
00:23:00.000 Now your question was, can it be used healthfully?
00:23:04.000 I don't know if it can be used healthfully, but I guess it's about what are your goals.
00:23:08.000 If your goals are to become really excited with a real partner, then perhaps you want to avoid porn.
00:23:16.000 If your goal is to just become really excited no matter what, then you could use porn and become excited as that.
00:23:23.000 My goal is to become excited with a real partner.
00:23:25.000 How dare you?
00:23:27.000 I know.
00:23:28.000 How dare you pass judgment on this generation?
00:23:30.000 You're like that old man who just yells at the kids in the street, Turn down your boombox!
00:23:36.000 It's not real music!
00:23:37.000 So that's what you've become.
00:23:40.000 Yes, and I walked a mile to school in the snow, which is a reality show.
00:23:44.000 Right.
00:23:45.000 You walked a mile in the snow to school both ways, and when you got to school, there was an actual physical naked lady. 1.00
00:23:52.000 How dare you?
00:23:54.000 Now, it is, you know, and this is where it comes from.
00:23:56.000 Listen, you know, as Christians, which I am, there are certain spiritual truths which we hold to be self-evident, which a lot of times you see manifesting itself in a way physically here.
00:24:07.000 You know, for example, there are a lot of things.
00:24:10.000 You know, you probably shouldn't eat a ton of shellfish before.
00:24:12.000 You know, watching a lot of porn and having a lot of promiscuous sex could probably be bad for you.
00:24:18.000 And I don't think anyone argues with it.
00:24:20.000 So I think there are a lot of ways for people to find common ground.
00:24:22.000 I had no idea that you were a liberal, Mr.
00:24:26.000 Wilson.
00:24:26.000 You know, next time, now that I know this...
00:24:28.000 I'm a severe liberal.
00:24:30.000 Oh, you're a beer liberal.
00:24:31.000 Well, you know, actually...
00:24:31.000 No, severe, severe.
00:24:32.000 I'm at the opposite end of you.
00:24:34.000 Right.
00:24:35.000 Well, you know, we had an actual terrorist on this show, if you've followed anything that we've done, Imam Shoudhury. 0.98
00:24:40.000 So, at least you got that going for you.
00:24:43.000 You're not quite a terrorist.
00:24:44.000 It's good that you're correlating terrorists with liberals.
00:24:47.000 I like that.
00:25:02.000 Right, Gary?
00:25:02.000 There have been a lot of people, more so, we would say, you know, on the right, a lot of Christians who have talked about this and maybe haven't necessarily had the same data to back it up.
00:25:11.000 But I see you agreeing with a lot of those people, even though you come in at opposite sides of the political spectrum.
00:25:17.000 So there are issues like this where I think people can just look at...
00:25:21.000 We can agree.
00:25:24.000 This is something I don't necessarily know through legislation, but we should be joining hands here and making people aware of a real problem.
00:25:31.000 Now, do you actually go as far as considering this a public health issue that would require some kind of government intervention, or is your goal just to build awareness on a personal level?
00:25:41.000 My goal is to build awareness.
00:25:43.000 I don't like government intervention, so we can agree on that.
00:25:46.000 Well, then how are you a liberal?
00:25:48.000 Get out of here! 0.99
00:25:50.000 Yeah, nice try.
00:25:52.000 And so I think what needs to be done is we always talk about education, but then people talk about sex education.
00:25:59.000 If we look at sex education, you know, whatever it is, what's missing in sex education is education about neuroplasticity, about the reward circuit and how it is Very vulnerable to overstimulation and how you can actually alter perhaps your sexual trajectory,
00:26:25.000 your sexual taste, your sexual desires by overstimulating it with a new stimulus that never existed before, high-speed internet porn.
00:26:33.000 That's what I think should be in the sex education that isn't in there today. 1.00
00:26:38.000 You know what you're going to hate to hear?
00:26:40.000 You know who's going to be immune to this?
00:26:42.000 Are those gun-toting rednecks out in the boonies because they're still dealing with dial-up. 1.00
00:26:47.000 So they're the only people who will be immune to this absolute plague of high-speed pornography.
00:26:55.000 How's that for irony, Mr.
00:26:56.000 Wilson?
00:26:57.000 And guess what?
00:26:58.000 what, I don't mind people owning guns.
00:26:59.000 I know.
00:27:00.000 Well, you know, listen, I think I truly believe, listen, that we agree on more than we disagree.
00:27:06.000 We just had Lear Keith on last week, who you may or may not know.
00:27:10.000 We both share a disdain for vegans, but she also believes that humans are, you know, a plague on the earth and that we need to reduce population.
00:27:18.000 And, you know, the animals should rule all kind of deal.
00:27:21.000 Very, very sweet lady.
00:27:22.000 But listen, we agree on a lot.
00:27:25.000 And I find your book fascinating.
00:27:26.000 Your writing is incredible on this subject.
00:27:31.000 And actually, I found you through Brett McKay over there at Art of Manliness.
00:27:33.000 I think he used you as a reference.
00:27:35.000 Oh, yeah.
00:27:35.000 Yeah, and he's actually, you know, again, he would be on a different side of the political spectrum than either of us, much more of a moderate, you know, I'm to the right of Attila the Hun, I'm sure, to someone like you.
00:27:44.000 Where can people go to find out more about you?
00:27:48.000 And then I want you to have the last word here, Gary.
00:27:51.000 What is the big takeaway you want for people if they're hearing this interview?
00:27:55.000 Well, you can just put in yourbrainonporn.com.
00:27:58.000 You'll go to my site.
00:27:59.000 It's a free site.
00:28:00.000 It has lots of stuff on it.
00:28:01.000 It has some videos.
00:28:02.000 And you can buy a book if you want to.
00:28:04.000 And the proceeds of the book are earmarked towards education and research.
00:28:10.000 And the takeaway from this is that a lot of young men do not know that they're affected, that a lot of old men do not know they're affected until they remove porn use.
00:28:20.000 Take it away for a couple of months, maybe three months, and then see if it changes for you.
00:28:27.000 See if you have more sexual arousals with real partners, your outlook changes, maybe social anxiety goes away, maybe depression lessens.
00:28:35.000 Take a vacation from porn use And then make the judgment about whether porn is affecting you.
00:28:43.000 That would be my challenge to your listeners.
00:28:46.000 And a perfectly sensible challenge that I think is easier said than done for many of the sticky, disgusting 14-year-olds listening to this on their podcast catcher.
00:28:55.000 But Gary Wilson, thank you so much, brother.
00:28:57.000 And really, we hope to have you back, liberal or not.
00:29:01.000 Okay.
00:29:01.000 It was a pleasure.
00:29:02.000 Thanks.
00:29:03.000 You have a good one.
00:29:04.000 Hope you enjoyed that video and learned something.
00:29:06.000 I know I'm going to cancel my order for the left-handed mouse.
00:29:08.000 And if you want to, watch this video next to me or subscribe.
00:29:11.000 It's free.