Louder with Crowder - September 17, 2016


PROGRESSIVE ISLAM? (Sally Kohn vs. Steven Crowder WEB EXTENDED) | Louder With Crowder


Episode Stats


Length

31 minutes

Words per minute

185.72348

Word count

5,776

Sentence count

594

Harmful content

Misogyny

13

sentences flagged

Hate speech

75

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Stephen and Yusuf discuss the Muslim Brotherhood's attempt to take over the world, the hijab, and why it's a bad idea to have a lesbian Muslim friend on the show. They also debate whether or not Islam should be more progressive than it is now.

Transcript

Transcripts from "Louder with Crowder" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 You're grouping every...
00:00:02.000 Okay.
00:00:02.000 Yes, every Islamic country, I'm grouping.
00:00:04.000 Every single one, I'm grouping.
00:00:05.000 You're grouping all Muslims together. 0.99
00:00:06.000 Every single Islamic country, I'm grouping.
00:00:08.000 I can't.
00:00:09.000 I just can't.
00:00:10.000 You're grouping all Muslims together. 0.99
00:00:11.000 Every single Islamic country, yes, your floor. 0.98
00:00:14.000 Every single one, I'll give you that.
00:00:17.000 Your floor, your floor.
00:00:18.000 You're saying it as though it's a bad thing.
00:00:20.000 Every single Islamic country, yes, I'm grouping them together. 0.99
00:00:23.000 Your floor.
00:00:24.000 You gotta invite yourself some Muslims on the show.
00:00:36.000 We have.
00:00:36.000 We've had many Muslims.
00:00:38.000 Many, many Muslims.
00:00:39.000 We've had Imam Shaudhry on the show.
00:00:41.000 We've invited TalkIslam on the show, who personally issued critiques of me with millions of plays, the biggest Islamic non-profit on YouTube.
00:00:48.000 They refused to come up.
00:00:49.000 They refused to come on the show.
00:00:52.000 We had, what was her name?
00:00:54.000 Annie Cyrus on the show, who's a former Islamic child bride.
00:00:57.000 We had a woman named Q, we have to call her Q, on the show, who left her husband.
00:01:01.000 Again, a Sharia court here in the United States. 0.98
00:01:03.000 It was not recognized by the state, abused her, tried to take the children, and she is in hiding right now because he just needs to say divorce, divorce, divorce, and she has no recourse to get her kids back.
00:01:10.000 This is very common in Dearborn and in the United States.
00:01:13.000 It's not an outlier.
00:01:15.000 So we've had a lot of Muslims on the show.
00:01:17.000 If it's so common, then how is it I know so many progressive Muslims in the United States?
00:01:22.000 How is it my, like...
00:01:22.000 How is that?
00:01:23.000 Possibly because you're hanging out with secular lesbian Muslims at nightclubs. 1.00
00:01:28.000 No, but, like, I mean...
00:01:29.000 Seriously!
00:01:30.000 Come on, you have to acknowledge a lesbian blogger who wears a hijab is not representative of Islam. 1.00
00:01:34.000 And when I say hundreds of millions and you say, but there are some who don't, it's not a valid counter-argument that you have a lesbian Muslim friend.
00:01:41.000 It's like saying I have a black friend.
00:01:43.000 Mona Al-Kahawai in Egypt.
00:01:45.000 Like, go look out there.
00:01:47.000 These people are not...
00:01:49.000 And...
00:01:50.000 Oh.
00:01:52.000 ...examples who want to...
00:01:53.000 Oh, your phone is...
00:01:55.000 Hold on.
00:01:55.000 The thing is...
00:01:56.000 The feed has given us a crappy round trip.
00:01:58.000 Can we bring her back?
00:02:00.000 Do you need to do better?
00:02:01.000 Does it need to be more progressive?
00:02:02.000 Yes, it does.
00:02:03.000 They agree, too.
00:02:04.000 Okay, sorry, hold on a second.
00:02:06.000 I didn't hear that last part because your thing went out.
00:02:09.000 No, no, no.
00:02:10.000 My partner is the radio on us.
00:02:12.000 It's her fault.
00:02:13.000 I'm blaming her.
00:02:15.000 Damn it.
00:02:16.000 Well, just convert to Islam and beat the hell out of her. 1.00
00:02:20.000 Aww.
00:02:21.000 Oh, come on now. 0.98
00:02:22.000 I just want to die in other faiths, man. 1.00
00:02:25.000 I just...
00:02:26.000 No, here's the deal.
00:02:27.000 You talk about Egypt.
00:02:28.000 How are gays, how are apostates treated in Egypt?
00:02:30.000 So you can point to one person, but what's the law in Egypt?
00:02:33.000 I'm not defending Egypt. 0.80
00:02:35.000 I'm also, by the way...
00:02:36.000 But you pointed to it as a bastion of progressive Muslims.
00:02:38.000 But what's the law in Egypt?
00:02:38.000 One person.
00:02:40.000 Egypt...
00:02:41.000 Okay.
00:02:43.000 Once upon a time in this country, you could be criminalized for having anal sex.
00:02:49.000 I don't know, I didn't see that as a...
00:02:52.000 Right, but the point is, we progressed, right?
00:02:54.000 We progressed in our religions, we progressed in our laws, we progressed in our norms.
00:02:57.000 You wouldn't have taken a snapshot of Christianity, Judaism, and the American value system at that moment in time and said, oh, you know what, that's inherently... 0.53
00:03:06.000 Okay, so what snapshot should we take then to be fair to Islam?
00:03:09.000 What snapshot in history?
00:03:11.000 Why do you not want to give it a chance to progress?
00:03:13.000 And by the way, Egypt, before the Muslim Brotherhood, was a more progressive place.
00:03:18.000 Just like Iran in 1969 was more progressive than it is now.
00:03:22.000 So allow for some...
00:03:24.000 Well, hold on.
00:03:25.000 You're right.
00:03:25.000 I agree.
00:03:26.000 I guess I just don't understand...
00:03:28.000 No, I agree with you.
00:03:28.000 I agree with you.
00:03:30.000 I agree with you.
00:03:31.000 Even if it's, what, 50%, 40%, 30%, 60%, whatever percent it is.
00:03:38.000 Far more.
00:03:39.000 Who, but my point is, let's not argue the percents for just a second.
00:03:42.000 Well, it matters if you bring up one lesbian hijab-wearing friend and hundreds of millions of Muslims.
00:03:46.000 It matters.
00:03:47.000 Out of 1.6 billion, Stephen, and I promise you, if 1.6 billion were like you're describing them, you'd notice.
00:03:54.000 It would almost look like the Islamic world. 0.84
00:03:56.000 It would almost look like Egypt.
00:03:58.000 You're analogizing almost like ISIS. No, I'm not.
00:04:03.000 UAE is bad enough. 0.99
00:04:05.000 Qatar is bad enough. 1.00
00:04:06.000 Have you been to Indonesia?
00:04:08.000 Indonesia isn't UAE. They are burning churches in record numbers in Indonesia. 0.55
00:04:13.000 Right now.
00:04:14.000 This year.
00:04:15.000 I'm not defending that.
00:04:16.000 But you just said Indonesia is different.
00:04:18.000 It's indefensible.
00:04:19.000 It's indefensible is a point.
00:04:21.000 There's no Islamic country in the history of the world that has a defensible track record. 1.00
00:04:26.000 My point here is...
00:04:26.000 Not one.
00:04:31.000 Why do you want to paint everyone?
00:04:33.000 Let me answer your question.
00:04:34.000 I can't go to Indonesia because of a fatwa on my head for drawing a profit. 0.99
00:04:38.000 Let me go back and ask...
00:04:39.000 No, that matters.
00:04:41.000 And that's wrong.
00:04:43.000 And I disagree with that.
00:04:44.000 And that's mainstream.
00:04:46.000 Why wouldn't you want to support, support the progressive, forward-thinking Muslims, the modern Muslims, in their efforts to reform and lead their faith in a better...
00:04:59.000 I do.
00:05:00.000 I've written a column right here...
00:05:00.000 No, you want to alienate...
00:05:02.000 No, I'll send it to you.
00:05:03.000 I have it up right here.
00:05:04.000 Louderwithcrowder.com, we need you in the civil war against Islam. 1.00
00:05:08.000 Islam needs a civil war just as bloody as the United States Civil War fought to free the slaves, right? 1.00
00:05:13.000 They need a civil war, and the minority will have to fight off the majority. 0.78
00:05:18.000 They'll have to fight to abolish apostasy laws.
00:05:20.000 They'll have to fight to create equal rights for women. 1.00
00:05:22.000 They'll have to fight to create equal rights for gay people not being killed.
00:05:26.000 They need a civil war, and I wrote a column supporting it. 1.00
00:05:28.000 We need you to do it because we can't do it on our own.
00:05:31.000 Yes, and they're sure listening to you the way that you're alienating them and making them all feel like they're...
00:05:35.000 They're not listening to you because you're a lesbian and they hate you. 1.00
00:05:39.000 The moderate Muslims do not hate me.
00:05:42.000 Again, what are you...
00:05:42.000 Yes, they do!
00:05:43.000 Are you listening to yourself?
00:05:44.000 Yes, they do!
00:05:45.000 Well, then, I'm so confused.
00:05:47.000 I've been to Dearborn and I didn't get, like, stabbed as I walked down...
00:05:50.000 Dearborn is a crap hole!
00:05:52.000 Dearborn...
00:05:53.000 Okay, here's the one thing.
00:05:54.000 This is like when liberals say with climate deniers, right?
00:05:56.000 When liberals say...
00:05:57.000 When you have climate...
00:05:58.000 Hold on, this is like when conservatives, the dumb arguments, where they go like, well, my neighborhood hasn't been hotter, so there's no global warming.
00:06:04.000 It's silly.
00:06:05.000 It's also silly for you to say, I went to Dearborn and I didn't get beheaded, so Dearborn is a hotbed for terrorism.
00:06:12.000 Not yet Jared knows, I won't bring him in because it's not fair, the restaurant that I went to was caught funneling money to Hezbollah, called Lashish, and now they just changed it to another place.
00:06:22.000 It is so common in Dearborn, everybody knows it.
00:06:25.000 So that's a great example for you to use.
00:06:30.000 I don't understand why you don't apply the same standard to Islam as you do to Christians. 0.61
00:06:33.000 I mean, you blame the Orlando shooting on Christians, the Colorado shooting on Christians, mass shootings on Christians.
00:06:38.000 I have it right here.
00:06:40.000 Whoa, whoa.
00:06:41.000 I blame fundamentalism on the ills and harms of fundamentalism.
00:06:48.000 And I mean, if you read the nuance, right?
00:06:52.000 I mean, this is pretty simple, right?
00:06:55.000 Come on, you know that lilt to your voice.
00:06:57.000 Fundamentalist Islam, bad. 1.00
00:06:58.000 Fundamentalist Christianity, bad. 0.99
00:06:59.000 Okay, okay, let me take that point.
00:07:01.000 I agree.
00:07:01.000 Not all.
00:07:02.000 I agree.
00:07:05.000 I agree.
00:07:05.000 Okay, so let's take that.
00:07:06.000 That's really important, right?
00:07:08.000 No, hold on, let me answer that, because that's important.
00:07:10.000 I agree.
00:07:11.000 So, fundamentalist Christianity.
00:07:12.000 Let's say the most fundamentalist Christian, right? 0.95
00:07:14.000 Jesus.
00:07:17.000 I wouldn't argue that, no.
00:07:19.000 I would argue, for instance, that Friends Helps very severely...
00:07:25.000 With 12 members of the Westboro Baptist Church.
00:07:28.000 And what they say is faggot.
00:07:30.000 In Iran, you get thrown off a rooftop.
00:07:32.000 I do not think Jerry Falwell, and I think a lot of Christians would take...
00:07:36.000 Hold on, hold on.
00:07:36.000 Okay, so let me make my point that I was making before you did this.
00:07:38.000 Okay.
00:07:39.000 The baseline.
00:07:40.000 The jumping off point, Jesus.
00:07:42.000 Right?
00:07:43.000 Okay, Jesus.
00:07:44.000 Okay, Jesus never killed somebody.
00:07:45.000 Jesus never beat his wife.
00:07:47.000 Jesus never advocated to beat your wife.
00:07:48.000 Jesus never caused a war.
00:07:49.000 Jesus never beheaded anyone.
00:07:50.000 Jesus never called for the killings of Christians and Jews.
00:07:52.000 Jesus never established even a form of law.
00:07:54.000 Muhammad did all of those things. 0.91
00:07:56.000 So could we agree that Muhammad himself would be a radical fundamentalist that we would both have a problem with? 0.68
00:08:04.000 I'm gonna...
00:08:05.000 I don't even...
00:08:07.000 Listen.
00:08:08.000 You know, I'm an Old Testament girl as a Jew, and the God I read about in the Old Testament was a pretty scary dude.
00:08:17.000 Did some pretty awful things, you know?
00:08:20.000 Drowned all of humanity at one point, firebombed all of Sodom, right? 0.88
00:08:25.000 Like, did some call for people to be murdered for this and that, like, imposed some pretty harsh, you know, the penalty for, like, jealousy.
00:08:35.000 And, I mean, like, really ugly, harsh penalties, right?
00:08:38.000 I'm going to hold you to the question, but yes.
00:08:40.000 I mean, I don't, I don't, that to me, right, is, I don't therefore say, oh, God is a right-wing force, right?
00:08:47.000 No, no, hold on a second.
00:08:48.000 You didn't answer the question at all.
00:08:50.000 Right.
00:08:50.000 Well, second of all, you're right.
00:08:52.000 I'm totally punting your question.
00:08:53.000 Get somebody who's a scholar of the Quran!
00:08:56.000 No, no, but why wouldn't it be...
00:08:57.000 Here's the thing.
00:08:58.000 You talk...
00:08:58.000 No, no, this is important.
00:08:59.000 This is important.
00:09:00.000 This is important, Sally.
00:09:02.000 Because you talk about some guy who has an inbred congregation of 12 people as though it's this grave concern.
00:09:07.000 Meanwhile, you have the founder of the feast, Muhammad, who beat his wife... 0.97
00:09:12.000 Who advocated for the deaths of Christians and Jews, who beheaded people, who committed mass terrorism.
00:09:17.000 You're worrying about a guy with 12 people, most of whom are inbred kids with flippers, and you're not worried about the guy who 1.6 billion Muslims follow. 1.00
00:09:26.000 That should concern you.
00:09:28.000 What I'm trying to say, Stephen, is, first of all, you know, please bring on someone who actually is a believer, not a skeptic, not a critic, but who is an...
00:09:37.000 I mean, I'm happy to suggest to a long list of people who are actual scholars and on the different interpretations of Muhammad.
00:09:44.000 But, Sally, that's fine.
00:09:45.000 But, Sally, it's not a rebuttal to my question.
00:09:49.000 Stephen, and I'm also, by the way, not an expert on Jesus, so don't be trying to get...
00:09:53.000 I'm not trying to get...
00:09:54.000 That's not a gotcha.
00:09:55.000 That's well-known stuff.
00:09:57.000 Answering your question, which is to say, first of all, this isn't just about the Westboro Baptist Church, you know as well as I do, that extreme homophobia, misogyny, all of these things have unfortunately been part of mainstream, mainstream Christianity and Judaism in their history.
00:10:14.000 They were.
00:10:15.000 There's no arguing that.
00:10:16.000 So you can say it came from Jesus or not, or worse, it came from human interpretations.
00:10:20.000 It doesn't come from Jesus, though.
00:10:22.000 And it comes directly from Muhammad. 0.91
00:10:23.000 So it existed, and now it doesn't.
00:10:26.000 Because those faith traditions progressed.
00:10:29.000 But it's not true, though.
00:10:30.000 It's not true.
00:10:31.000 No, it's not true.
00:10:32.000 It's not true.
00:10:33.000 In Christendom, it was never okay to beat your wife.
00:10:36.000 It was never considered okay.
00:10:37.000 It's unilaterally agreed upon in Islam.
00:10:39.000 No, it wasn't.
00:10:40.000 You've always been made to be a pariah.
00:10:42.000 You've always been excommunicated from society.
00:10:44.000 It's never been okay to beat your wife in the United States.
00:10:46.000 Ever.
00:10:47.000 Misogyny has never been something that's been lauded or approved in the United States.
00:10:50.000 Slavery was not endorsed in the Bible, and there's still slavery in the Islamic world! 1.00
00:11:05.000 Why don't we talk about that in 2016?
00:11:07.000 Because the point is, hey, isn't it great that Christianity and Judaism by and large, although not entirely, have progressed further, have moved forward. 0.50
00:11:15.000 I, by the way, love this conversation because we're arguing in favor of progressivism and against these regressive and oppressive norms.
00:11:23.000 So great.
00:11:24.000 Let's encourage Islam to get there too.
00:11:26.000 But we're not going to do it if we insist wrongly that the majority of Muslims do not want that too.
00:11:34.000 But I will say this.
00:11:34.000 You are incorrect.
00:11:35.000 I will agree with you on this.
00:11:37.000 We are arguing for progressive rights.
00:11:39.000 We are arguing for...
00:11:40.000 I wouldn't say progressive rights.
00:11:41.000 We are arguing for equal rights.
00:11:42.000 We are arguing for freedom, right?
00:11:44.000 And there is nothing that's a better fail-safe For that and the Constitution.
00:11:47.000 And to see that usurped by people in Sharia courts as we've seen in Europe, as we've seen in the Islamic world, I think would be a catastrophe for both you and myself.
00:11:55.000 I agree it would be a catastrophe.
00:11:57.000 It's a good thing it's not happening.
00:11:58.000 It is happening.
00:11:59.000 We have governments keeping institutions in check, and look.
00:12:02.000 75% of marriages in the UK aren't even recognized.
00:12:06.000 20% of women who report it are abused in Islamic marriages.
00:12:10.000 Here in the United States, half of these spousal abuse situations are settled in some form of a mosque or sharia court because they're not allowed to go to the law.
00:12:17.000 This is a problem right now.
00:12:20.000 I'm against it.
00:12:21.000 But why aren't you out there fighting for these women?
00:12:24.000 I am!
00:12:25.000 You're not!
00:12:26.000 Stephen, I am!
00:12:27.000 No, you're not!
00:12:28.000 By obfuscating and saying that Sharia law can be progressive, it's not! 1.00
00:12:32.000 God, I didn't say that.
00:12:33.000 I said Sharia, the concept of Sharia.
00:12:35.000 So when we ask in polls, or as Newt Gingrich said, we should ask people when they come to the border, can you believe in Sharia?
00:12:40.000 And if they say yes, we don't let them in our country. 1.00
00:12:43.000 Well, that reflects a fundamentalist misunderstanding of what Sharia He was talking about Sharia law.
00:12:47.000 He was talking about Sharia law.
00:12:50.000 And by the way, Americans use it now.
00:12:51.000 They just say Sharia.
00:12:53.000 And even if you don't like it, Sharia law looks different in many different countries.
00:12:57.000 But look, I am fighting it.
00:12:59.000 There's not one branch of Sharia.
00:13:00.000 Stephen, I'm fighting it by supporting.
00:13:03.000 I'm fighting it by supporting the majority of peaceful freedom.
00:13:07.000 It's not a majority.
00:13:08.000 It's not a majority.
00:13:10.000 Look, I don't know what to tell you, man.
00:13:12.000 Yeah, your friends aren't the same as a statistic.
00:13:14.000 That's the problem.
00:13:15.000 No, you're right.
00:13:16.000 Ben Shapiro, where all these numbers come from, who looked at the Pew data and said, oh my gosh, the majority...
00:13:20.000 I did a video long before Ben Shapiro on moderate as long.
00:13:22.000 You know what?
00:13:23.000 And it got fact-checked, and it's wrong.
00:13:25.000 It is based on a fallacious understanding...
00:13:27.000 My video got fact-checked and it's wrong?
00:13:30.000 No, but Benz did.
00:13:31.000 Is overly broad with the assumption that when people answer a question and say, oh, that's Sharia, it means they're right-wing Muslims.
00:13:39.000 It's wrong.
00:13:40.000 And I'm surprised you don't care that you're wrong.
00:13:43.000 I'm surprised that you don't care about everything that you've been wrong regarding statistics.
00:13:47.000 Give an example, please.
00:13:48.000 A majority of Muslims do support some form of Sharia or apostasy laws or spousal abuse laws in some case where there should be recourse in a Sharia court, not in a secular court.
00:13:57.000 A good point is, let's say the UAE right now.
00:14:00.000 Conversion is death.
00:14:02.000 Right?
00:14:02.000 In progressive countries, Qatar, you can't leave the faith.
00:14:06.000 And women are treated as second-class citizens in marriage, right? 1.00
00:14:09.000 Any kind of extramarital sex is punishable by death.
00:14:13.000 That would mean homosexuality. 1.00
00:14:14.000 That would mean adultery. 1.00
00:14:15.000 Well, guess what?
00:14:15.000 If you're a Muslim, you can't leave.
00:14:17.000 So if you're gay, you can't be a Muslim. 0.99
00:14:20.000 And you can't leave.
00:14:21.000 Either way, you die.
00:14:22.000 I'm not...
00:14:22.000 Either way, you die.
00:14:24.000 I'm not...
00:14:25.000 Here's the thing is, I'm not supporting that.
00:14:27.000 I'm against all that.
00:14:29.000 But this is every Islamic country.
00:14:30.000 And these people are coming in record numbers and bringing their laws here and their beliefs here.
00:14:35.000 You're grouping every...
00:14:38.000 Okay.
00:14:38.000 Yes, every Islamic country.
00:14:39.000 I'm grouping.
00:14:40.000 Every single one.
00:14:41.000 I'm grouping.
00:14:41.000 All Muslims together.
00:14:42.000 Every single Islamic country.
00:14:43.000 I'm grouping.
00:14:44.000 I can't.
00:14:45.000 I just can't.
00:14:46.000 You're grouping all Muslims together. 0.99
00:14:47.000 Every single Islamic country.
00:14:48.000 Yes, your floor.
00:14:50.000 Every single one.
00:14:51.000 I'll give you that.
00:14:52.000 Your floor.
00:14:53.000 Your floor.
00:14:54.000 You're saying it as though it's a bad thing.
00:14:56.000 Every single Islamic country, yes, I'm grouping them together. 0.99
00:14:59.000 Your floor.
00:15:02.000 And yet you want to write off places like Uganda, which have implemented equally egregious and offensive and backwards laws under the explicit citation of Christianity with the encouragement of churches in the United States. 0.87
00:15:16.000 And you say, no, no, no, not going to blame Christianity there.
00:15:19.000 No, I'm not.
00:15:20.000 Here's the thing.
00:15:21.000 You don't want to look at political context.
00:15:23.000 And I mean, this is really what this comes down to, Stephen.
00:15:25.000 We don't want to say, okay, look, there are political issues in the region of Middle East.
00:15:32.000 There are political context.
00:15:33.000 You don't want to look at any of that.
00:15:34.000 You just say, no, no, it's Islam. 0.98
00:15:35.000 And by the way, it's not just even Islam is implemented in those places or implemented by those right-wing demagogues.
00:15:39.000 No, no, no.
00:15:39.000 It's just all of Islam.
00:15:41.000 And in fact, anyone who doesn't believe that, not only are they a minority, but I'm going to like, I'm going to disagree You know, discourage them or disempower them or whatever by being like, oh, no, no, you're just the fringe of Islam. 0.89
00:15:52.000 You're not even legitimate Islam because legitimate Islam is only this thing. 1.00
00:15:57.000 And by the way, you want to know the only other group that agrees with you?
00:16:00.000 That would be friggin' ISIS. That's their message.
00:16:03.000 Their message is, you want to be a Muslim? 1.00
00:16:05.000 This is the only way to be a Muslim is to believe these things. 1.00
00:16:08.000 I didn't say that.
00:16:08.000 So, this again, with the rewind button, you're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.
00:16:11.000 Let me, so can I, I gave you the floor.
00:16:13.000 You're saying there's only one Islam.
00:16:14.000 Nope.
00:16:15.000 Can I say, can I clarify my position?
00:16:17.000 Because I feel that's an inaccurate representation.
00:16:19.000 I would like to be...
00:16:20.000 And I think that in these conversations, as Dinesh Jassouza says, it's only productive if you address your opposition fairly.
00:16:27.000 I said every single Islamic country.
00:16:30.000 Now, again, the context, if you want to talk the context, and we're talking about leaders here in the United States saying, we can't allow the kind of laws, the mindset, the cultural issues that plague every Islamic country to permeate the United States if they have Europe. 0.88
00:16:43.000 You've said, well, there are some progressive examples.
00:16:45.000 There's not one in the Islamic world. 1.00
00:16:47.000 So, I want to be clear.
00:16:48.000 I have said every single Islamic country, their system of laws are ones that I would find abhorrent to have in the United States. 1.00
00:16:57.000 And, in comparison to every Islamic country that we both agree on, you point to Uganda.
00:17:06.000 For the record, I would find it abhorrent to have India's laws, right? 1.00
00:17:10.000 Yeah.
00:17:12.000 Backwards, progressive, you know, right-wing nation of Hindus, not Muslims. 1.00
00:17:20.000 Can't blame Islam.
00:17:21.000 But every single Islamic country.
00:17:22.000 At what point do we say that's statistically significant?
00:17:24.000 Well, by the way, I wouldn't like Cuba's laws, but I'm not blaming Christians for Cuba.
00:17:29.000 Because it has nothing...
00:17:31.000 Well, here's why.
00:17:31.000 Here's why.
00:17:31.000 Because we're talking about Sharia law.
00:17:33.000 Christians, if you talk about Jesus, this is the big difference between Jesus and Muhammad, right? 1.00
00:17:37.000 We both know.
00:17:38.000 You know this political context.
00:17:39.000 Muhammad was a political figure.
00:17:41.000 Jesus wasn't.
00:17:42.000 Jesus said, given to Caesar what's Caesar's, I'm out.
00:17:45.000 He stepped out of it entirely.
00:17:46.000 Muhammad didn't. 0.99
00:17:47.000 He got into politics.
00:17:48.000 So, Cuba can have people who are Christians, and that has nothing to do with communism.
00:17:53.000 It has nothing to do with a distinctly atheist worldview, the Communist Manifesto.
00:17:57.000 The Sharia law, here's the difference.
00:18:00.000 Islam is inherently a political and legal system.
00:18:04.000 That's the difference.
00:18:07.000 Again, please reach out to someone like Abdullah al-Nayyim who would argue vociferously, and in fact, many scholars of Islam would say that no, in fact, that the politicization of Islam is in fact, that it's impossible, that in the Quran you can't actually take the faith and implement it politically, that it's an impossibility under the writings of the Quran.
00:18:33.000 Ask me more than that, and I'm going to send you to someone else.
00:18:35.000 But let me go back.
00:18:37.000 You know, we in this country proudly say, okay, our laws are Judeo-Christian laws, right? 0.73
00:18:41.000 They're influenced by Judeo-Christian morality.
00:18:44.000 We didn't actually take the Bible, thank God, and literally make it our law because, you know, there's stonings in that too, right?
00:18:51.000 So we didn't do that, but they're influenced by...
00:18:53.000 Contextually, not the same.
00:18:54.000 For better and for worse.
00:18:55.000 Okay, but for better and for worse.
00:18:57.000 And, again, to say that, well, in the United States, because we like our laws, therefore that's Judeo-Christian, we're sort of happy to proclaim that, but in Cuba or Venezuela, we're not going to say it's Judeo-Christian because we don't, I mean, those are also Judeo-Christian states, or in fact Christian states, right?
00:19:16.000 They're influenced by Christian laws and Christian lawmakers who then adopted their beliefs into all of Latin America, right?
00:19:25.000 No.
00:19:26.000 Oh no, because why House, huh?
00:19:29.000 So what a Christian state?
00:19:32.000 You just asked me why I said no.
00:19:35.000 Can I say no?
00:19:36.000 I don't think that communism in Cuba, certainly that stems, we both know, from a distinctly atheist ideology, communism.
00:19:44.000 A distinctly nihilistic anti-God theology.
00:19:47.000 Sorry, philosophy.
00:19:48.000 I don't think comparing Cuba...
00:19:51.000 The United States, for people who were deeply personally deistic, Christians, whatever you wanted to call them, is the same as a system of law based expressly on the Quran and Hadith and Muhammad's word. 0.99
00:20:06.000 You cannot find Jesus' quotes for the laws of our country.
00:20:10.000 In Latin America, where, you know, they follow a different, right, the prosperity gospel, and I mean, it's very much, right? 0.83
00:20:17.000 There are laws, actually, and there are, right, strains of Christianity.
00:20:21.000 They follow the prosperity gospel in Latin America?
00:20:24.000 Okay.
00:20:25.000 Let me also make a point.
00:20:27.000 No, no, I'm genuinely, I'm surprised by that.
00:20:29.000 Stephen, um...
00:20:32.000 I thought that was a Joel Osteen thing.
00:20:34.000 A percentage of Protestant Christians in the United States in 2016, this year, 2016, who favor same-sex marriage.
00:20:46.000 Sally, you've got so far away from that.
00:20:48.000 Is that the same as beating your wife and throwing a gay off a rooftop? 0.97
00:20:52.000 Burning gays alive?
00:20:54.000 I don't believe marriage is a fundamental human right.
00:20:56.000 Am I like Egypt?
00:20:59.000 That's not my point.
00:21:00.000 I'm just comparing apples and apples.
00:21:02.000 No, you're not.
00:21:04.000 You're comparing apples and suicide bombers.
00:21:07.000 I'm not.
00:21:07.000 Listen to my point.
00:21:09.000 39%.
00:21:10.000 39% of Protestants in this country, in the United States, in 2016 support same-sex marriage.
00:21:17.000 42% of Muslims do.
00:21:20.000 39% of Protestants, 42% of Muslims, Muslims in this country, are more pro-gay marriage.
00:21:27.000 And you just said, you said, you said, they're all, those are aberrations.
00:21:33.000 Yes, as it relates to the Islamic world.
00:21:37.000 Well, you can't judge.
00:21:38.000 No, you can't judge.
00:21:39.000 To take your exact point, right?
00:21:42.000 To take your exact point, talking about the United States Judeo-Christian rules.
00:21:47.000 Now you're having it on both sides of the coin.
00:21:48.000 You cannot compare when Islamists have power, when Muslims have power and are able to create and maintain their own systems and governments for centuries. 1.00
00:21:58.000 You can't compare that with people who have no political power or legislative ability in the United States where a vast portion of them are secularized Muslim like your lesbian Muslim friend who wears a hijab who would get stoned in any Muslim country. 0.98
00:22:12.000 Calling them secularized is insulting.
00:22:15.000 And it's reinforcing, as I said, the ISIS notion of Islam that the only true Islam is right-wing fundamentalist Islam, number one. 0.88
00:22:22.000 And number two...
00:22:23.000 Stop doing the right-wing BS. You know it's BS and I know it is.
00:22:25.000 There's no reason.
00:22:26.000 We're friends here.
00:22:26.000 My point is, stop making it about the religion.
00:22:30.000 It's about the political context.
00:22:32.000 There are progressive and evolved notions.
00:22:34.000 It's about the religion.
00:22:35.000 Right-left.
00:22:36.000 Then how do you end up with Muslims in this country more tolerant on issues of gay rights than groups of mainstream Christians?
00:22:44.000 How do you explain that and say it's about the religion?
00:22:46.000 Yeah, I can tell you.
00:22:47.000 Yeah, well, anywhere the religion has been the basis for a system of laws for centuries.
00:22:52.000 Throughout history, you can't point me to any example.
00:22:55.000 You can't point me to any example.
00:22:56.000 You can't point me to any example of an Islamic-majority country where there's basic human rights. 1.00
00:23:01.000 Ever!
00:23:01.000 In the history of the world, you can't.
00:23:04.000 That's my point.
00:23:05.000 And so my point is, these people would be better served to acknowledge the problem, to reject the teachings of someone like Muhammad, Muhammad himself, and move into the new world.
00:23:16.000 They're rejecting the fundamentalist backwards interpretations of their faith.
00:23:22.000 So that's every Muslim country? 0.95
00:23:23.000 Now you're being insulting.
00:23:24.000 But it's not inherent to the faith.
00:23:24.000 Right.
00:23:26.000 Yes, it is.
00:23:28.000 Muhammad did those things. 0.93
00:23:29.000 If you and I had this conversation, look, Muhammad's dead, dude. 0.86
00:23:34.000 As, by the way, there are all these people, these are based on human beings, right?
00:23:39.000 We're talking about imams, we're talking about political totalitarian leaders and their human interpretations of these faiths. 0.97
00:23:46.000 And I agree with you.
00:23:48.000 There are some really, can I say f***ed up?
00:23:51.000 How dare you.
00:23:53.000 You've got some nerve on you, Ms. 0.93
00:23:54.000 Cohn.
00:23:55.000 There's some f***ed up interpretations thereof, right?
00:23:58.000 But it's not an interpretation to simply...
00:24:01.000 Here's my point.
00:24:02.000 If we had this conversation a hundred years ago, I would hope you would also be saying these things about other traditions.
00:24:07.000 Well, I would.
00:24:08.000 I would.
00:24:08.000 And here's the deal.
00:24:09.000 Here's the deal.
00:24:09.000 You interpret Jesus' teachings and his life literally, it's a very different outlook than Muhammad.
00:24:14.000 One is terrorism.
00:24:15.000 One is a guy who might be too nice of a neighbor.
00:24:17.000 You might have a Ned Flanders.
00:24:18.000 Okay, before you leave, we were talking about this.
00:24:22.000 What did you get from the, if men had the, because I know you, oh, it's no secret you're a lesbian. 1.00
00:24:26.000 By the way, it was like 75 years ago that Jordan decriminalized homosexuality.
00:24:32.000 First country in the world to decriminalize homosexuality.
00:24:35.000 That's why I... It doesn't matter.
00:24:37.000 It doesn't matter because right now there are gross violations of human rights in Jordan.
00:24:42.000 Yes, there are, but you're saying it's inherent in them being...
00:24:45.000 It is.
00:24:46.000 It's not.
00:24:47.000 You have to take the whole.
00:24:48.000 You have to take the context of the whole, Sally.
00:24:51.000 No.
00:24:52.000 You absolutely have to.
00:24:53.000 Just like Westboro Baptists are an outlier. 0.98
00:24:56.000 No, I wouldn't.
00:25:16.000 Yeah, we're half the country fought to keep it.
00:25:18.000 Again, if you're going to look at the totality...
00:25:20.000 They lost!
00:25:20.000 ...where they are now, I'm just saying...
00:25:22.000 They lost!
00:25:24.000 I'm saying, Stephen, under your standards, right?
00:25:27.000 If you're going to say, oh, we can't...
00:25:28.000 Oh, forget that Jordan once was more pro-gay than it is now.
00:25:32.000 We're looking at the totality of it because it's an Islamic nation.
00:25:34.000 During that same period, women didn't have equal rights. 1.00
00:25:37.000 Well, so...
00:25:38.000 During that same period, non-Muslims didn't have equal rights.
00:25:41.000 Because gay people were allowed to smooch on the sidewalk doesn't make me think Jordan was a bastion of equality.
00:25:46.000 Forgive me for not being convinced.
00:25:48.000 For most of our history, neither were we.
00:25:50.000 Thank God we did better and we moved forward and we progressed.
00:25:54.000 And...
00:25:54.000 Others can, too.
00:25:57.000 That's...
00:26:00.000 Maybe they can, but it's a great threat to, right now, Islam as it is. 1.00
00:26:04.000 It's a great threat to Western civilization, Western values that you enjoy and I enjoy, and I think that that is something.
00:26:10.000 It is not inherently a threat.
00:26:12.000 Fundamentalist Islam, yes, is a threat, just as is fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Judaism. 0.99
00:26:17.000 Fundamentalist Buddhism...
00:26:19.000 Before we go, I want to give this.
00:26:21.000 I don't think I'm bringing you out of the closet as far as...
00:26:23.000 Have we had fun?
00:26:24.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:26:25.000 I don't think I'm opening the closet door and saying you're a lesbian. 0.99
00:26:27.000 Oh, I'm like very gay.
00:26:29.000 Yes, okay.
00:26:29.000 But, and I will say this about Fox News, it's different on Twitter, you never struck me as a social justice constantly offended type.
00:26:36.000 Oh my god, I'm so offended that you just said that.
00:26:38.000 Exactly, but like, did you see this week, I just thought it'd be funny to have you talking about this, that people got furious.
00:26:44.000 We would get into talking about other things.
00:26:46.000 That men can have periods too?
00:26:48.000 You must, did you see that?
00:26:50.000 No.
00:26:51.000 So if men had periods...
00:26:53.000 I'm less of an expert on men than I am on being a Muslim.
00:26:58.000 This is true.
00:26:59.000 No, I was wondering your thought on this, because we've talked about some issues.
00:27:02.000 We were on the Alan Colm show on the Free For All, and even I would say someone like you, even though I think you're grossly wrong on Islam, there's a new breed of leftist LGBTQAIP who are unbelievably offended at everything. 1.00
00:27:17.000 Yeah.
00:27:18.000 And it seems like there's been even more backlash against the gay community because of it.
00:27:24.000 How have you been dealing with that lately?
00:27:26.000 Because you don't strike me as that way.
00:27:27.000 You're like, oh, okay, this guy's an ass, and you can ignore it, and you don't need to start a march.
00:27:33.000 Uh, well, you know, I've been around the block a little bit, right?
00:27:38.000 So from CNN and before that being the openly gay lefty on Fox News. 0.81
00:27:42.000 So I had to develop a bit of a thick skin.
00:27:45.000 But, you know, the truth is, listen, I am also a very big proponent of Treating people decently.
00:27:51.000 And, you know, I do think, yes, we can always, sometimes we go too far, outrage, culture, whatever.
00:27:56.000 But at the same time, it also seems like some people are trying to go out of their way to offend people and to do so to make political points.
00:28:03.000 And that's never been my style.
00:28:04.000 I don't want to offend you.
00:28:05.000 I don't want to offend anyone.
00:28:08.000 And if someone comes up to me and says, you know what, that's offensive, I'm going to try to do my best to listen with an open mind and learn.
00:28:14.000 Which is, by the way, How I came to learn more about Islam.
00:28:19.000 Speaking of Fox News, though, I always wondered, because you were gay. 1.00
00:28:24.000 You were gay at Fox News.
00:28:25.000 I assume that didn't change?
00:28:26.000 No, still gay. 0.99
00:28:27.000 The interns...
00:28:29.000 You know the hiring practices!
00:28:33.000 Don't act like you don't know!
00:28:35.000 Don't act like you don't know!
00:28:37.000 You would walk in and you'd be like, is this Abercrombie?
00:28:43.000 I remember wondering, because the only lesbian I knew at Foxy, I'm like, I wonder what Sally thinks of this, because she's got to be conflicted, because she's a lesbian, but she also doesn't want to see people hired for their looks. 1.00
00:28:57.000 I mean, listen, though, I don't know where to go with this one.
00:29:00.000 Okay, alright, but you know what, come on.
00:29:03.000 But you're Foxy, and you know, I was glad that you were a good looking dude at Foxy.
00:29:07.000 Well, they always ask me to put on a sports jacket.
00:29:09.000 I'm not comfortable enough in my lesbianism to say that. 0.99
00:29:12.000 Well, thank you very much.
00:29:13.000 I appreciate it.
00:29:14.000 They always ask me to put on a sports jacket.
00:29:15.000 I got a call.
00:29:17.000 You know the second floor.
00:29:18.000 The old second floor.
00:29:19.000 Hey, listen.
00:29:20.000 Can you wear something more than a button-down or a polo?
00:29:24.000 I was like, I can.
00:29:27.000 Act your age, man. 0.58
00:29:28.000 Act your age.
00:29:29.000 Okay, Sally Cohn, where's the best place for people to find you?
00:29:31.000 The Twitter is Sally Cohn, K-O-H-N. This has been, you know, delightful.
00:29:37.000 Well, come on.
00:29:37.000 I think it's been friendly.
00:29:38.000 I hope you made a few more Muslim friends out of it.
00:29:41.000 Well, you know, it's funny.
00:29:42.000 I'll let you go with this.
00:29:43.000 I was raised in Montreal, so I had a school that was a significant portion of Muslim.
00:29:47.000 And I've written about this.
00:29:48.000 I watched them cheer when 9-11 happened.
00:29:49.000 I watched them make jokes.
00:29:51.000 So when you're outside of the United States and you get into multicultural enclaves, this was very common. 0.98
00:29:55.000 What?
00:29:56.000 All of them?
00:29:56.000 All of them?
00:29:59.000 A majority of them.
00:30:01.000 The fact that anyone did and felt comfortable...
00:30:04.000 As fucked up!
00:30:05.000 It's appalling.
00:30:06.000 My point is, when they were outside of the United States, this happened all the time.
00:30:09.000 Every single one of my Muslim friends, every single one, Sally.
00:30:11.000 Every single one hated Jews.
00:30:13.000 This is anecdotal.
00:30:14.000 My point is, every single one.
00:30:17.000 Every single Muslim friend I had at Centennial Regional High hated Jews.
00:30:21.000 And mine don't.
00:30:22.000 And by the way, I had a lot of Christian friends growing up who hated Jews.
00:30:25.000 I didn't ascribe it to Christianity.
00:30:27.000 I ascribed it to them being backwards assholes. 1.00
00:30:30.000 Yeah, the difference is we had all kinds of honor killings and stuff, and we have all kinds of wife beatings and kidnappings because of Islam in Quebec. 0.66
00:30:36.000 They have more political power there.
00:30:37.000 My point is, I would have defended you!
00:30:39.000 I would have defended you to my anti-Semitic Muslim friends. 0.95
00:30:43.000 Thanks.
00:30:43.000 I like to think you would have.
00:30:45.000 Alright, Sally, thanks.
00:30:46.000 We'll have to have you back.
00:30:47.000 This was fun.
00:30:47.000 It's been super real.
00:30:48.000 Alright, take care.
00:30:50.000 Hey, if you like this video, or you're still here, subscribe.
00:30:55.000 I don't know why you're still here.
00:30:58.000 This is the internet, and this has probably been going on for like 35 minutes.
00:31:01.000 Don't you have somewhere to be?
00:31:03.000 Only 31 minutes.
00:31:05.000 31.
00:31:05.000 31 minutes.