Louder with Crowder - June 06, 2015


Transgender vs. Lesbian Live Debate || Louder With Crowder


Episode Stats


Length

34 minutes

Words per minute

179.70775

Word count

6,149

Sentence count

545

Harmful content

Misogyny

55

sentences flagged

Hate speech

60

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

J.J. Marie Gafreda and Cynthia Yaki join host Emily Edwards to debate the controversial issue of transgenders in the gay community. They discuss the pros and cons of the transgender community, and what it means to be a lesbian in a male dominated world.

Transcript

Transcripts from "Louder with Crowder" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 I'm not going to step into the victimization element of it.
00:00:04.000 The problem that we have is he is not biologically, he is not scientifically a woman. 0.92
00:00:10.000 He is a woman only on the basis of his mental illness, on the basis of his disease. 0.99
00:00:18.000 We have right now on the line J.J. Marie Gafreda, author of Left Hander in London, Transgender Male to Female, and then Cynthia Yaki.
00:00:28.000 You can find her at a conservativelesbian.com who lines up on the other side of the issue, open out of the closet lesbian, who lines up more conservative. 0.97
00:00:35.000 We want to have this debate, discussion.
00:00:38.000 Cynthia, are you on the line with us now?
00:00:40.000 I am at last on the line.
00:00:41.000 Thank you.
00:00:42.000 Okay, good.
00:00:43.000 I'm glad to have you.
00:00:44.000 And J.J., you are on the line as well.
00:00:46.000 Correct.
00:00:46.000 Okay, great.
00:00:47.000 So, we were talking about, firstly, JJ, you mentioned your story, how you came out, you felt that you were living something that wasn't true to yourself, you didn't feel authentic.
00:00:56.000 Now, how long, JJ, have you transitioned into being a female? 1.00
00:01:02.000 It's been almost eight years now.
00:01:04.000 Eight years.
00:01:04.000 Okay, so a long while.
00:01:06.000 Now, have you gone through the full surgery?
00:01:08.000 No, I don't have the money.
00:01:10.000 Okay, if you did, though, you would.
00:01:11.000 If I sell a million books, I'll do it.
00:01:15.000 But if you did have the money, you will do it.
00:01:17.000 Okay.
00:01:18.000 Now, Cynthia, you're an out-in-the-open lesbian. 1.00
00:01:21.000 I'm not blowing the lid off anything here.
00:01:24.000 And I found this very interesting in interviewing Milo.
00:01:27.000 A lot of people in the gay community, particularly lesbians, have a strong opposition to the current transgender movement.
00:01:34.000 Why is that?
00:01:37.000 Lesbians are expected to be... 1.00
00:01:44.000 They want to be absolutely submissive to transgenders, and they want to be in a female community. 1.00
00:01:51.000 They're not women. 1.00
00:01:53.000 And the ones who transition to men also are not women but refuse to leave. 0.70
00:01:59.000 So we don't get an all-lesbian space, we don't get an all-woman space, and the fact is that your sex is determined at conception. 0.75
00:02:09.000 There's no such thing as a gender construct. 0.94
00:02:12.000 You can't change it.
00:02:14.000 You can adopt characteristics, but you can't change your sex. 0.98
00:02:21.000 It's an invasion.
00:02:22.000 You're supposed to be submitted, I guess, to transgender men to women.
00:02:26.000 Are you saying more so that you think it's insensitive for, I guess, a man to transition to a woman and then claim to have suffered from the same discrimination or disadvantages as a lesbian like yourself?
00:02:38.000 Oh, I don't think that's the issue at all.
00:02:40.000 I don't even want to go there.
00:02:43.000 The problem is they're not women. 1.00
00:02:45.000 So get out of women's spaces. 1.00
00:02:47.000 And J.J., what do you say to that?
00:02:52.000 Well, I am a woman, so I'm different than other women in one way or another.
00:02:59.000 But I'm a woman.
00:03:01.000 I'm treated as a woman.
00:03:04.000 And I don't...
00:03:07.000 You know, do anything actively against lesbians. 1.00
00:03:09.000 I'm the president of the Indian Rainbow Chamber of Commerce.
00:03:13.000 So, you know, we have LGBTs and any other of the letters that they have.
00:03:19.000 So, you know, for me, I represent the whole community when I'm...
00:03:23.000 We're not in that capacity, so I don't...
00:03:26.000 But J.J., to be fair here, and Fundip can join in, what if there seems to be a strong contingency in the gay-lesbian community who sort of think that the transgender community doesn't share a lot in common and is coattailing on it?
00:03:38.000 If you look at the numbers, it's not across the board.
00:03:40.000 There are a lot of people out there like Cynthia. 1.00
00:03:44.000 Well...
00:03:44.000 It's not coattailing.
00:03:45.000 It's hijacking and dominating and stealing the whole thing.
00:03:48.000 Hey, hang on.
00:03:49.000 It's J.J.'s turn.
00:03:50.000 Well, I would say, you know, first of all, we're not, and I can speak for myself, you know, I know a lot of transgender people, but, you know, I don't consider that we're hijacking anything.
00:04:03.000 There are similarities with other, you know, lesbian and gays and bisexuals and what have you, because there's discrimination.
00:04:11.000 You know, when Indiana passed a religious freedom law, that was targeted against all of us.
00:04:17.000 You know, it wasn't Well, JJ, let's try and stay away from that, because that has nothing to do with discrimination.
00:04:24.000 It has to do with religious freedom.
00:04:25.000 And they didn't deny, I think Cynthia would understand that, too.
00:04:28.000 They didn't deny anyone because they were gay.
00:04:30.000 They didn't want to be involved in a specific gay wedding.
00:04:33.000 Well, in Indiana, the opinion of many was it was intended for discrimination, but that wasn't held by everyone.
00:04:41.000 But regardless, when there's an issue like that, The way I look at it is, in many cases, we're in it together.
00:04:49.000 Well, let me ask this because you mentioned that.
00:04:51.000 Cynthia, do you see the religious freedom laws as anti-gay laws there in Indiana?
00:04:56.000 Or did you, for example, that bakery, the pizzeria that said, well, we just don't want to cater a gay wedding. 0.97
00:05:01.000 They served gay people.
00:05:02.000 Did you find that to be anti-gay bigotry?
00:05:05.000 Oh, first of all, even lesbians would not... 1.00
00:05:08.000 Have a pizza parlor cater their wedding. 0.94
00:05:12.000 I understand that for sure.
00:05:17.000 Now, me, on the other hand...
00:05:19.000 But no, yes, yes, the religious...
00:05:21.000 For one thing, in Indiana, they were already totally free to discriminate.
00:05:25.000 Yes, that's true.
00:05:27.000 That was...
00:05:28.000 There was absolutely no need for that.
00:05:32.000 But because for them to need such a law, then gays would have to have some kind of protection for employment and public accommodations and housing, which they are not provided in Indiana.
00:05:46.000 Right.
00:05:47.000 I don't want to get off in the weeds.
00:05:50.000 It was redundant, but it is a mask for religious discrimination, yes.
00:05:53.000 Okay.
00:05:53.000 Well, yeah, I just, I didn't want to get off in the weeds.
00:05:55.000 I just wanted to see your opinions and see where, you know, you both line up on some issues and not on the other issues.
00:05:59.000 But let me, you know, JJ, you said something that you are a woman, right? 0.80
00:06:02.000 And that you're treated somewhat differently.
00:06:04.000 Well, listen, what do you say to someone like Cynthia, who has a vagina? 1.00
00:06:10.000 And you don't.
00:06:11.000 And Cynthia says, it's not fair to say that you're a woman the same way that I'm a woman.
00:06:16.000 It's insensitive.
00:06:18.000 For someone like you, J. Day, who's obviously very sensitive and seems to be a very caring person, can you see how that might cause women from birth who've been raised as women, who've faced what they see, you know, what many women, I'm not agreeing with, you know, they've seen, I guess, patriarchal privilege.
00:06:33.000 It's sort of insensitive for you to swap that after a few years and then claim to be a part of their class?
00:06:38.000 Well, I mean, first of all, I'm not claiming to be a part of anything.
00:06:44.000 I'm just saying I'm a woman.
00:06:46.000 I can identify with a lot of things that other women have. 1.00
00:06:50.000 I've been a consultant for 30 years, and now that I am a woman, being treated very differently and being treated like I don't know anything, It's a very big wake-up call, and I knew...
00:07:07.000 But do you really think, JJ... I'm just going to be honest.
00:07:09.000 Do you really think, Cynthia...
00:07:10.000 Let me ask Cynthia, because I know my opinion.
00:07:12.000 Cynthia, do you really think that people are treating JJ the same way they treat someone like you as a woman?
00:07:17.000 Because I know I would react differently to someone who I would see as a man than I would to just say my wife or you.
00:07:26.000 I'm not...
00:07:27.000 I'm not going to step into the victimization element of it.
00:07:31.000 The problem that we have is he is not biologically, he is not scientifically a woman. 0.92
00:07:37.000 He is a woman only on the basis of his mental illness, on the basis of his delusion. 0.99
00:07:43.000 Now, wait a second, though.
00:07:44.000 Do you believe in souls?
00:07:46.000 Yes.
00:07:47.000 Don't you think that a soul might end up in the wrong body?
00:07:53.000 No.
00:07:54.000 You don't think that's possible?
00:07:55.000 No.
00:07:56.000 No, I think that there is something that would illuminate it.
00:08:02.000 Jyotish astrology and possibly Western astrology.
00:08:04.000 Well, let's not get off on the soul stuff.
00:08:06.000 No, it's not.
00:08:06.000 No, this is where you asked me.
00:08:08.000 Well, no, Fundip did, Cynthia, and he's going to the Star Trek thing.
00:08:12.000 He doesn't even believe in God.
00:08:13.000 So I don't want to go there and get us so far off from the weeds.
00:08:16.000 Let's let J.J. and Cynthia were making some good points, and then Fundip wants to go into Star Trek or the new Star Wars, God forbid, midichlorian BS. No, no midichlorians. 1.00
00:08:26.000 About how biologically...
00:08:28.000 I mean, you just said something, Cynthia, and this is going to upset a lot of people, but you're bold.
00:08:32.000 You said mental illness.
00:08:33.000 Now, Milo Yiannopoulos, who is gay, he agrees. 1.00
00:08:37.000 And what I find fascinating, not having a dog in this fight, not being gay or transgender, JJ, it seems that a lot of gay people have said what you have said, that they feel the movement is being hijacked, and they're not a fan of it.
00:08:50.000 Well, first of all, that's the first time I've been told that I have a mental illness, so...
00:08:55.000 This is news to me.
00:08:58.000 I went through a lot of therapy when I was getting ready to transition, and my doctor and my therapist, none of them ever said I had a mental illness.
00:09:10.000 I never felt that I did.
00:09:12.000 First of all, if somebody doesn't think I'm a woman, they're entitled to their opinion.
00:09:19.000 But what about the fact that you have a penis? 0.63
00:09:24.000 You were born a male, so you say someone thinks.
00:09:26.000 But you know that because you asked me the question, and I like to educate people so I don't mind sharing that, but...
00:09:35.000 Well, no, no, no, JJ, I ask that because, listen, I'm just speaking honestly, and I appreciate you coming on the show.
00:09:39.000 This isn't meant to discriminate.
00:09:41.000 I've watched your videos.
00:09:42.000 If I were to see you, I would think you were a man.
00:09:46.000 I mean, that's just...
00:09:47.000 And I think most people would.
00:09:48.000 I don't think they're reacting to you in the same way they do to any other woman on the street.
00:09:51.000 And I don't say that to be mean.
00:09:54.000 I say that so that maybe you're not aware that that's how people probably see you, JJ. Well, I mean, however they see me, they do.
00:10:02.000 Right.
00:10:03.000 You know, I expect to be...
00:10:04.000 To be treated like a woman, I'm addressed with female pronouns, and I don't think it's anything to fight for or debate.
00:10:13.000 If I'm a woman, that doesn't take away anything from anyone that's a lesbian. 0.56
00:10:18.000 Well, Cynthia argues that it does, Cynthia.
00:10:20.000 It absolutely does.
00:10:21.000 It took away the Michigan Women's Music Festival.
00:10:25.000 And it takes away an all-woman space.
00:10:28.000 You are not a woman, and all we... 0.99
00:10:31.000 All we're going to be in is an R2, R0 fight.
00:10:36.000 But I'm sorry, biology and facts are on my side.
00:10:41.000 You are not a woman. 1.00
00:10:42.000 You can change your name.
00:10:44.000 I'll call you a new name, but I will not change the pronouns by which I refer to you, and I think it should be against the law for you to be able to change legal records, to change your sex on your legal records. 0.73
00:10:56.000 It is absolutely an outrage.
00:10:58.000 This should not be legal, and it's a mental illness.
00:11:01.000 It's called gender dysphoria, and it should not be kowtowed to.
00:11:04.000 The inmates do not get to run the asylum.
00:11:07.000 Well, J.J., Cynthia's passionate, but she's a very sweet lady. 0.59
00:11:12.000 I'm not getting that.
00:11:14.000 No, I'm not picking up on that either.
00:11:17.000 I don't get to be in my community because I can't get into an all-lesbian, all-female space. 0.99
00:11:24.000 This is an outrage.
00:11:25.000 And it is trans people who are taking this away from me. 1.00
00:11:29.000 And they prey on the lesbian community the most. 1.00
00:11:33.000 My trans friends date lesbians. 0.99
00:11:36.000 You bet I'm passionate about that.
00:11:38.000 Well, let me...
00:11:39.000 Yeah, and I don't ask you...
00:11:40.000 JJ, obviously, Cynthia's passion.
00:11:42.000 We're trying to moderate this here, and Cynthia, I appreciate it.
00:11:44.000 But, JJ, I think there is a point, a takeaway here.
00:11:47.000 Because you talk about people who should treat you as a woman and may be insensitive.
00:11:50.000 Can you understand that maybe there are people like Cynthia, obviously, who won't be as aggressive, though I appreciate her passion, who think it's insensitive and feel less safe in an all-female space if someone... 0.98
00:12:05.000 Well, I mean, there are women that look more like men than I do.
00:12:19.000 It's not a contest.
00:12:21.000 I mean, you know, you do the best you can with what you have.
00:12:23.000 I mean, are we saying that if I looked better, if I was prettier, or if I could go through 10 hours of facial feminization surgery like Jenner did, then I would be more accepted in the community.
00:12:36.000 I mean, it's not a contest.
00:12:38.000 I don't know about where you are, Cynthia, but here in Indy, I mean, I respect other women and I'm not at war with anyone.
00:12:47.000 I work for the lesbians as well as anybody else that's in our community, and I'm not taking anything away from anyone.
00:12:56.000 But what about an all-female space? 0.89
00:12:58.000 You know, Cynthia has faced...
00:12:59.000 She never claims victim status, but I will agree, and fund up and I have said this, I believe that lesbians are discriminated by some bigots in this country, and she's faced that, and I think it's important to someone like Cynthia to have what they see as an all-female space.
00:13:11.000 And when they see someone as a man, regardless of how you identify yourself, that's how they see you, that's the perception.
00:13:18.000 Can you maybe be sensitive to the idea that there are women who aren't bigots, who aren't going to be comfortable with no longer having an all-female space?
00:13:28.000 I just don't understand it.
00:13:29.000 It's like, I don't see how it would be any different.
00:13:33.000 And, I mean, then, you know, if you want to get into nitpicking, I mean, there are people that are intersex that are, you know, that have components of both or, you know, there are a lot of different types of conditions.
00:13:46.000 I mean, do we have to have a checklist to say, this person is female enough because... 1.00
00:13:52.000 Okay, well, we're going to go to break, but I want Cynthia to hold that thought and actually address that.
00:13:56.000 And Cynthia, we appreciate your passion.
00:13:58.000 JJ, thank you.
00:13:59.000 We're going to keep you both on, and I would like to hear Cynthia's addressing of that point.
00:14:03.000 Cynthia, can you stay on?
00:14:04.000 Yes, of course.
00:14:05.000 Okay, good.
00:14:06.000 Well, listen, it's just one big happy family here.
00:14:09.000 Fundip, myself, JJ, Cynthia.
00:14:12.000 I don't think any of us shared the same opinion on a whole lot.
00:14:16.000 But that's what Lauder with Crowder is, bringing people together.
00:14:19.000 Days go by.
00:14:22.000 Now, JJ, we appreciate you coming back.
00:14:23.000 Cynthia and I spoke during the break.
00:14:25.000 Cynthia is sweet. 0.91
00:14:26.000 Let's keep this so everyone is talking.
00:14:29.000 And, JJ, we appreciate you coming back.
00:14:30.000 I know it was a rough first segment, but I think we're making some headway.
00:14:35.000 Fun Dip, careful.
00:14:36.000 I would have just run away in fear.
00:14:39.000 I'm not able to deal with confrontation well.
00:14:42.000 Yeah, well, listen, you have to understand, too, Cynthia is an out-of-the-closet lesbian who's an open conservative. 1.00
00:14:48.000 So I've seen her at conservative conferences.
00:14:49.000 The only reason we became friends was because she was furious with me, because we were having a discussion.
00:14:53.000 Everybody starts off that way!
00:14:56.000 The first time I met you, I could not stand you!
00:15:00.000 Well, I don't...
00:15:00.000 Cynthia, are you there?
00:15:01.000 I'm here, and I remember that.
00:15:04.000 We were yelling at each other at midnight in the lobby of a hotel in Virginia at BlogCon, and somehow we turned both instantly at the same time on a dime and just loved I told her that I loved her and that, you know, listen, the most important thing for Christians is to love, and even if we disagreed on certain issues, that, you know, listen, and the same applies to J.J. Love is important for agnostics as well.
00:15:27.000 We're not opposed to love.
00:15:29.000 You're like a Scientologist.
00:15:31.000 You invent your Star Trek religion and God stuff.
00:15:33.000 So, J.J., I'm sorry.
00:15:35.000 J.J., Cynthia was right about the asylum, but I don't even think she was referring just to you.
00:15:39.000 It's Fundip and myself.
00:15:40.000 We're the ones in the insane asylum here.
00:15:42.000 I'm more insane than anybody.
00:15:44.000 Okay.
00:15:45.000 Let's let Cynthia. 1.00
00:15:46.000 So, J.J., you made a point before we went to break, and I wanted Cynthia to be able to address it.
00:15:49.000 Cynthia, how do you respond to J.J.? Oh, dear God, you're going to have to summarize the thing you want me to respond to.
00:15:56.000 Okay, I'm sorry.
00:15:56.000 JJ, what was the last...
00:15:57.000 That's exactly what I wanted to say right now.
00:15:58.000 The last point JJ was making was about...
00:16:01.000 JJ, was it about representing lesbians in the group that you work with?
00:16:04.000 I'm sorry.
00:16:05.000 Yeah, I mean, I work with the whole LGBT community.
00:16:09.000 You know, to me, I don't remember being at war with anyone, including especially, you know, members of the LGBT community.
00:16:18.000 And, you know, as...
00:16:19.000 As a transgender person, this is news to me that we have this much power.
00:16:24.000 There aren't that many transgender people, so I don't see us having a tremendous amount of political clout unless we're working with other people, because there just aren't that many. 1.00
00:16:36.000 Okay, that's a good point.
00:16:37.000 Cynthia, go ahead. 1.00
00:16:39.000 The Convention of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force was overtaken by a trans... 1.00
00:16:47.000 And they had to stop business until the trans people were done having their song and dance. 0.94
00:16:54.000 And God help anybody who objected to it.
00:16:57.000 God help the lesbians who said, but you killed the Michigan Women's Music Festival. 1.00
00:17:01.000 And you're erasing women. 1.00
00:17:04.000 You're redefining women. 0.99
00:17:05.000 Why is it that Christians are worried about the non-redefining of marriage and the actual redefining away from biology, away from fact, Of sex, of your sex.
00:17:20.000 There is no such thing as a gender construct.
00:17:23.000 And it is really a totalitarian...
00:17:26.000 People are being softened up for totalitarianism with the idea that gender is something that is a construct and that is imposed.
00:17:34.000 It's the new Soviet man all over again. 0.99
00:17:38.000 And it's absolutely the worst form of gender stereotypes, which Women of my generation fought hard to get rid of.
00:17:46.000 Well, I think, Cynthia, that's an interesting point, because I will say this, in my opinion.
00:17:50.000 My deal is the language police, JJ. And you mentioned you want to be referred to as masculine pronouns, and people now say that it's hate speech if you don't.
00:17:57.000 So feminine. 0.98
00:17:58.000 Sorry, feminine pronouns. 1.00
00:18:00.000 See, there's a great example.
00:18:01.000 I wasn't even trying to offend, and it's just, I hear your voice, JJ. I have your picture up in front of me, and it's just, that's the way it comes out.
00:18:09.000 I wasn't even trying to be offensive.
00:18:12.000 I wasn't offensive.
00:18:14.000 Okay, but there's a movement now to make it hate speech, to ban this as hate speech.
00:18:18.000 So do you believe at all that if someone says, hey, I don't hate you, but I'm not going to use feminine pronouns, what do you think about that?
00:18:25.000 Is that something that needs to change?
00:18:26.000 Is it hateful, or is it just someone like Cynthia? 0.99
00:18:31.000 Well, for me, I would say this.
00:18:36.000 People refer to me with feminine pronouns, and they...
00:18:43.000 They call me by my name, and the issue, well, I'll just say this.
00:18:49.000 There's a difference between people that call me the wrong pronoun by accident, whether they knew me before or whether they hear my voice or whatever, however it is that they call me that, and people that are trying to be nasty to me.
00:19:06.000 Sure.
00:19:07.000 Because, you know, to me, You know, if I'm female... 1.00
00:19:11.000 Context matters in how it's based.
00:19:13.000 Yeah, and I've had people do it.
00:19:15.000 I've had people that have intentionally called me the wrong name in letters in order to let me know that they don't like it, that I'm female.
00:19:25.000 And, you know, if somebody doesn't like it, that's fine, but, you know, I don't need to earn it.
00:19:31.000 And, you know, I work with other women, and, you know, I consider myself...
00:19:38.000 Involved in a lot of the issues that other women have. 0.99
00:19:41.000 And, you know, for me, I'm not...
00:19:42.000 But what about that there are a lot of women... 1.00
00:19:44.000 I'm sorry, I need a turn here.
00:19:46.000 This is absolute gaslighting.
00:19:49.000 You can change your name legally, fine.
00:19:51.000 I will call a trans person a new name. 0.99
00:19:54.000 But I will not say that they are a sex because it is a lie.
00:19:58.000 It is honoring a delusion.
00:20:00.000 And I'm sorry, I don't have to lie for you.
00:20:04.000 And I'm not going to honor your lie.
00:20:06.000 I'm not going to honor your delusion.
00:20:07.000 You are not a woman. 1.00
00:20:10.000 So what does that mean?
00:20:12.000 And legally you should not ever be able to say so.
00:20:14.000 People are absolutely out of their minds if they say that this is a trans right to have this delusion.
00:20:22.000 And the fact is that the way trans have put this over is by having psychotic episodes when they are not allowed to absolutely dominate and dictate how everyone is going to behave and to force people to accept their gaslighting. 0.99
00:20:36.000 The psychological term for the way that trans people operate is gaslighting. 1.00
00:20:40.000 And what causes trans people to commit suicide is the large number of people who say, I'm sorry, no, I am going to believe my eyes and not your lies.
00:20:50.000 You are gaslighting and you are a man.
00:20:53.000 Well, that's an interesting point.
00:20:54.000 I want to touch on that point, Cynthia.
00:20:56.000 But being a woman is not superficial characteristics.
00:21:00.000 It's not a dress.
00:21:02.000 It's not makeup.
00:21:03.000 Hang on, though.
00:21:04.000 Hang on, though.
00:21:05.000 Cynthia, hang on one second.
00:21:06.000 Cynthia, hang on, Cynthia.
00:21:08.000 Cynthia.
00:21:09.000 Don't you think that it is steeped in the personality and in the being inside?
00:21:15.000 We're going to derail this with your soul stuff.
00:21:18.000 There's a legitimate conversation we had biologically here and a personal experience.
00:21:22.000 It's not always about biology.
00:21:24.000 But JJ is talking about JJ's personal experience here and Cynthia is addressing it.
00:21:29.000 So here's my point.
00:21:30.000 But inside who you are should determine how you are referred to.
00:21:33.000 No, the interesting point here that was just brought up that's more important, fund it, let me go, is Cynthia brought up a suicide rate. 0.99
00:21:38.000 JJ, I do have those in front of me and it is staggering.
00:21:41.000 Now, I know you could say it's – make an argument that it's because of social construct.
00:21:45.000 But gays and lesbians don't have anywhere near the same suicide rate.
00:21:49.000 It's almost 40% for transgenders.
00:21:51.000 It's even higher for ones who go through the surgery who would be more perceived as women. 0.96
00:21:56.000 How do you address that and say, hey, this doesn't share a lot of the same congruencies as, you know, like something, listen, to be honest, that I suffer from.
00:22:03.000 I have depression, but I acknowledge it and I don't think it's something to be lauded.
00:22:07.000 They're the very same rates and statistics.
00:22:10.000 Isn't that alarming?
00:22:12.000 Well, it is very alarming and...
00:22:18.000 And, you know, I'll admit that for me, I've had, you know, very dark moments because of being transgender. 0.98
00:22:29.000 You know, in my experience, it comes from two things.
00:22:34.000 One of them is not being who you are.
00:22:40.000 And then when you do act to You know, become the person that you need to be.
00:22:46.000 Whatever that means.
00:22:47.000 And it's not just a one-shot-fits-all.
00:22:51.000 But the other part of that is the difficulty you go through in society.
00:22:56.000 You know, like if somebody says...
00:22:57.000 But that wouldn't be reflected across the board for both pre-op and post-op.
00:23:01.000 And it wouldn't be so much higher than gays or lesbians. 1.00
00:23:04.000 I mean, I know Cynthia.
00:23:05.000 And listen, Cynthia obviously can come across as a little bit feisty. 1.00
00:23:08.000 But I promise you, she's a sweet gal. 0.84
00:23:10.000 And Cynthia, you know that.
00:23:12.000 I'm not feeling that, but that's She was that way with me, too.
00:23:16.000 But Cynthia has faced the same kind of discrimination. 1.00
00:23:19.000 Listen, Cynthia is very clearly a lesbian. 1.00
00:23:23.000 If you see Cynthia, you would assume so.
00:23:25.000 You see Cynthia with her partner.
00:23:26.000 So she's faced that same discrimination.
00:23:27.000 But the suicide rate is nowhere near as high.
00:23:29.000 Why is there such a wide gap there?
00:23:32.000 Well, I don't know why there are so many.
00:23:36.000 I do know that it's a very big problem.
00:23:40.000 There's not as much help.
00:23:42.000 When you have people attack, like, you know, in this case today, if people are attacking me because they're saying, we're arguing with you because we're saying that you're not what you think you are, and you're taking away from the rest of us by existing...
00:23:57.000 No, they're not, though.
00:23:58.000 They're saying we don't have to accept...
00:23:59.000 I didn't say no such thing.
00:24:01.000 This is a fact.
00:24:02.000 You are not a woman. 1.00
00:24:03.000 You will never be a woman. 1.00
00:24:05.000 No surgery, no drug, no clothes...
00:24:08.000 No happy feeling of femininity is going to make you a woman. 1.00
00:24:13.000 This is a fact, and what causes suicide among trans people is to go farther and farther down that road to be enabled and then to find out, no, they didn't actually get to change sex. 0.90
00:24:24.000 Their body is still going to be insisting that they were born.
00:24:29.000 They were trying to externalize what would make them fulfilled and happy, and then it doesn't happen.
00:24:36.000 So it's the left and progressives who are enabling this gender construct baloney and who are enabling this delusion that surgery is going to make you a different sex, which is absolutely false.
00:24:48.000 And then, of course, it doesn't happen.
00:24:51.000 How does that shatter people?
00:24:52.000 And, of course, there is no reason for people to go along with the transgender gaslighting. 0.99
00:24:57.000 You are not...
00:24:59.000 You are asking people to accept something that is That's the point right there.
00:25:03.000 Cynthia, one second. 0.96
00:25:04.000 Fun Dip wants to jump in before he does.
00:25:06.000 I think we've touched on an issue.
00:25:07.000 JJ, you're saying people are discriminating against what you want to be.
00:25:10.000 I think what Cynthia is saying and what I would agree with on her side is she's saying, no, we don't have to accept you redefining something.
00:25:17.000 Fun Dip, go.
00:25:18.000 But don't you think that the personality, how the person feels matters?
00:25:25.000 I mean, when I think about what it would be like to have You're the very fiber of your being, you know, different from your body.
00:25:39.000 That breaks my heart.
00:25:41.000 I think it breaks a lot of people's hearts, but it also breaks people's hearts if they believe something to not be true in other ways.
00:25:48.000 I mean, JJ, what about this, you know, there are a lot of people...
00:25:50.000 The problem is that once you start chopping yourself up and the fact that they have to add drugs in order to complete this, it means that they're...
00:25:59.000 Their mental delusion is just not enough.
00:26:02.000 Well, I think there's an irony here, Cynthia.
00:26:04.000 That tells you that biology really has something to do with this.
00:26:08.000 Hold on, hold on, Fundip.
00:26:09.000 Hold on, Fundip.
00:26:09.000 And hold on, Cynthia.
00:26:10.000 Hold on, Cynthia.
00:26:11.000 Hold on, Fundip.
00:26:11.000 I do think there's an irony here, JJ. Could you agree, for example, Caitlyn Jenner now, okay?
00:26:16.000 We constantly fight against the idea of this social construct of beauty and this unrealistic standard of beauty.
00:26:21.000 And we tell women they shouldn't have to get plastic surgery and they shouldn't do drugs to change who they are. 0.69
00:26:26.000 But then it's supposed to be lauded and given praise when you do it.
00:26:31.000 Isn't that a little bit of an irony?
00:26:32.000 Well, I would say this.
00:26:35.000 A big breakthrough for me was when I stopped trying to figure out what happened and what caused it and just said, you know, I just need to do whatever I need to do.
00:26:47.000 And then that was...
00:26:51.000 That was how I went forward, and I didn't get a new card in the mail saying that I was female.
00:27:00.000 I thought you were going to say a new Costco card, because those are fantastic.
00:27:02.000 And I will tell you this, I have not experienced what Cynthia is talking about.
00:27:09.000 But she has, JJ, so can you maybe say you're insensitive to people like Cynthia?
00:27:15.000 You say she's insensitive, but you're both maybe a little insensitive to each other.
00:27:19.000 Well, I'm not insensitive.
00:27:20.000 I just haven't seen it.
00:27:22.000 And, you know, when I interact with people, I expect to be treated, you know, with respect and people calling me the correct name, what have you.
00:27:34.000 And I, you know, to me, it's not a very interesting debate on my side to say, you know, I'm not going to accept you as a woman. 1.00
00:27:42.000 I'm like, well, okay, but, you know, that's not the way That I like to be treated, and that's not what I'm experiencing.
00:27:50.000 Maybe we're more progressive down here in Indiana, but...
00:27:54.000 Well, listen, JJ, I will tell you this, JJ. That wouldn't really be the recommendation for this show.
00:28:01.000 I don't care if you run around in a dress. 0.97
00:28:04.000 I don't care if you feel like a pretty, pretty princess.
00:28:07.000 Run around in a dress for all you, and to your heart's content, but use the men's room. 0.95
00:28:14.000 Play men's sports.
00:28:15.000 You cannot change your driver's license.
00:28:18.000 You cannot change your birth certificate.
00:28:20.000 You are a man.
00:28:23.000 Have you been in a men's room? 0.84
00:28:26.000 Some of them are not fit for anyone.
00:28:29.000 Pardon?
00:28:29.000 Pardon?
00:28:29.000 Some of them are not fit for anyone.
00:28:32.000 And let me ask you this.
00:28:33.000 That's true.
00:28:35.000 Seriously, now I'm supposed to give everything up because the bedroom isn't clean?
00:28:39.000 Cynthia, I think that was a joke.
00:28:40.000 I think that was a joke.
00:28:42.000 The bathroom here that Fundip has to clean is like a Turkish prison. 0.95
00:28:46.000 Yes.
00:28:47.000 Now, I wrote a song about that.
00:28:49.000 Dan, did you listen to that?
00:28:51.000 I didn't get a chance to hear the song yet.
00:28:52.000 Oh, I listened to the one.
00:28:53.000 Yeah, I listened to the one where you play the piano that you have to go.
00:28:55.000 I'll tell you what, though.
00:28:56.000 Listen, JJ, and then we have to go to a break here.
00:28:59.000 I don't know if we can...
00:29:00.000 Can we continue this into the next segment, or it's going to be short anyway?
00:29:02.000 It'll be a short segment, but we've got some commercials here.
00:29:05.000 Okay.
00:29:05.000 Hey, do you mind staying through the next segment, both of you, and then we'll wrap it up and you can give your closing arguments?
00:29:10.000 Can you both do that?
00:29:11.000 Yes.
00:29:11.000 Thank you, Steve.
00:29:12.000 Great.
00:29:12.000 Thank you so much.
00:29:13.000 We'll be right back.
00:29:14.000 Ladder with Crowder.
00:29:14.000 Appreciate it.
00:29:18.000 Great.
00:29:19.000 We come back with lesbian and transgender activist and the ultimate stripper song Poison by Alice Cooper plays.
00:29:25.000 So before we go, JJ, Cynthia, thank you so much for coming back.
00:29:27.000 JJ, you just made the point about using a woman's restroom and you made your argument as to why you feel that way.
00:29:32.000 Well, let me kind of give that to Cynthia.
00:29:34.000 Before I do, I mean, it's a place where women feel sexually vulnerable. 1.00
00:29:38.000 It's a place where sexual assault often occurs. 0.99
00:29:41.000 And at a certain point, my only argument here is you're discriminating against somebody.
00:29:44.000 And in this case, you're discriminating against the vast majority of women who feel unsafe, who feel uncomfortable, in order to accommodate less than 1% of the population with transgender people.
00:29:53.000 So either way, you're discriminating on some side.
00:29:56.000 I'm not discriminating against anybody.
00:29:58.000 I pee in the bathroom.
00:29:59.000 Well, women feel unsafe with it. 1.00
00:30:01.000 And so you're being insensitive to them.
00:30:03.000 No, they don't feel unsafe with me.
00:30:03.000 I've been going to the ladies for eight years.
00:30:04.000 Yes, they do.
00:30:05.000 JJ, statistically, they do.
00:30:06.000 It can't all be personal.
00:30:07.000 We have to look at some stats.
00:30:09.000 Well, I'm just telling you, They wouldn't tell you, JJ. In the ladies' room. 0.99
00:30:13.000 They wouldn't tell you.
00:30:14.000 My wife wouldn't say anything, and I guarantee she would feel very uncomfortable.
00:30:17.000 Cynthia, you can address the point.
00:30:22.000 Trans people need to use the... 1.00
00:30:24.000 We have to make it a law that trans people have to use the facilities, the sports, the prisons. 1.00
00:30:31.000 Any sex-segregated facility, it has to match their birth sex. 1.00
00:30:35.000 Now, what about on the flip side, though?
00:30:37.000 Say you've got somebody who has transitioned female to male coming in to the ladies' room with a bald head and strong arms.
00:30:49.000 That's not going to be something...
00:30:50.000 By the way, I've never seen a female to male transgender ever who looked even remotely large and intimidating. 0.99
00:30:57.000 You wouldn't necessarily know.
00:30:59.000 Buck, the guy who hates me, the most famous trans male porn. 0.64
00:31:03.000 Yeah, you would know.
00:31:04.000 You would know.
00:31:04.000 It's a different bone structure.
00:31:05.000 Cynthia, but what do you say to that?
00:31:06.000 I...
00:31:08.000 I would actually prefer that all trans people use the men's room. 1.00
00:31:12.000 If I were getting to make the law, then they can use the men's room. 1.00
00:31:16.000 But that's not rationalized.
00:31:17.000 No, because of testosterone going both ways.
00:31:20.000 Male to female has had the advantage of a lifetime of testosterone.
00:31:24.000 It changes the bone structure, and it's an enormous advantage.
00:31:28.000 And also, it's just an expectation to dominate that they have, and an absolute unwillingness to take no for an answer.
00:31:35.000 I mean, absolute.
00:31:37.000 Sounds like you, though, too.
00:31:38.000 But for female to male, once they start taking testosterone, they get that, too. 0.77
00:31:43.000 So my preference would be that all trans people use the men's room. 0.99
00:31:47.000 But I'm willing to compromise that they use the facilities of their birth sex. 1.00
00:31:53.000 So you want a separate drinking fountain, too?
00:31:55.000 Oh, shut up, Fun Dip. 0.99
00:31:57.000 Don't try and equate a lesbian conservative with racism. 0.99
00:32:00.000 That's ridiculous.
00:32:01.000 What do you say to that, J.J.? Well, I think there is a lot of similarity with racism.
00:32:06.000 People saying, if you are this, then you can't do that.
00:32:10.000 It's, um...
00:32:11.000 You know, for me, if I went to the men's room, my life would be in danger. 0.75
00:32:15.000 The only way, J.J., could have a similarity with racism is if gender is biologically determined like race.
00:32:20.000 Are you saying that gender is biologically determined just like race?
00:32:23.000 I don't know.
00:32:24.000 It may be.
00:32:25.000 I'm not sure what the reason is.
00:32:28.000 I'm just saying you go with what you get.
00:32:30.000 And, um...
00:32:34.000 And I don't know, I'm just having a hard time with the anger and the outrage.
00:32:40.000 You know, my doing something I don't think took away from anyone else.
00:32:43.000 It just made me a lot better.
00:32:46.000 Well, I think we're having a disconnect here, JJ, where you're only talking about personal experiences, which, granted, are going to be seen through the lens of your life, and Cynthia's talking about societal ramifications.
00:32:58.000 But, JJ, we have to let you both go, and we do appreciate you both coming on.
00:33:01.000 JJ, where can people best find you, firstly?
00:33:05.000 On Facebook, I have a page, LeftHanderInLondon, people can go and like that.
00:33:09.000 Jenner has a million likes, I have 170, so you can do that, and then LeftHanderInLondon.com.
00:33:14.000 And then Cynthia, where can people find you best?
00:33:17.000 I am most frequently on Twitter.
00:33:20.000 My handle is at ConservativeLes, and my blog is at ConservativeLesbian.com.
00:33:25.000 If people would like to help fund me, help me write a book about the attitudes and positions I've just discussed, I'll put up a post later today to take donations for Kindle formatting and editing and so on.
00:33:38.000 Okay, thank you both of you very much, and we want to have both of you back on soon.
00:33:42.000 Fun Dip, what?
00:33:42.000 There's also Left Hander and Levin.
00:33:44.000 No, no, no, we both got some plugs.
00:33:45.000 The Earthquake, you've got to check that out too, though.
00:33:47.000 Okay, great.
00:33:48.000 Thank you so much, JJ. Thank you.
00:33:50.000 We appreciate it.
00:33:50.000 Thank you, Cynthia.
00:33:51.000 Louder with Crowder.
00:33:52.000 We will be back after this word from people who keep the lights on and who knows, maybe some people writing these ads are lesbian and or transgender and we're all just one big happy family.
00:34:03.000 Louder with Crowder.
00:34:04.000 Stay tuned.
00:34:05.000 Hey, if you like this, be sure to subscribe by clicking my face here on YouTube, clicking the video next to me or subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud or louderwithcrowder.com.