Louder with Crowder - Unholy Alliance? Decoding the Islam-Christian "Friendship" with Jay Dyer

00:00:58.000 for today I love that song.

00:01:12.000 I love that.

00:01:13.000 You know what?

00:01:13.000 And I love you.

00:01:14.000 Thank you for joining us.

00:01:16.000 Not you, but most everybody else in here.

00:01:20.000 I definitely love you.

00:01:21.000 You see this sign right here behind me?

00:01:23.000 It means Stephen's either out or we tied him up somewhere where he can't really interrupt us.

00:01:27.000 And that brings us to Gerald Apologizes Apologetics.

00:01:34.000 Gerald Apologizes Apologetics.

00:01:37.000 It doesn't mean that.

00:01:39.000 It doesn't mean that.

00:01:41.000 You know what?

00:01:41.000 At this point, I guess it doesn't matter.

00:01:42.000 We're all going to have some fun with it anyway.

00:01:45.000 Um, I talk to you guys a lot about topics that touch on apologetics or topics that touch on religion and faith and where it intersects with politics or world events.

00:01:57.000 And I love talking about those things because I think it's a fun conversation.

00:02:01.000 I think you get to dive into subjects that maybe we don't have time to cover on the show as in depth.

00:02:06.000 And it gives us an opportunity to kind of veer outside of the normal lines of stories that we talk about.

00:02:13.000 I think in this case, some of them will match up with things we've mentioned on the show.

00:02:17.000 For example, we're going to be talking about Islam in the West and some. 0.78

00:02:21.000 Real push to try to kind of sanitize Islam and make it seem like it is more compatible with Catholicism than it is with the evangelicals in Christianity or even Judaism. 0.53

00:02:32.000 This is a post from Sneeko that we'll get to here in just a minute. 0.87

00:02:35.000 And why there is this push to try to, I guess, make it seem like Islam is not the threat that it is, we'll leave the judgment up to you. 0.95

00:02:44.000 Obviously, you know my opinion on it. 0.96

00:02:46.000 Also, the Freemasons, there's been conspiracy theories about these guys for years, but now there's actually a murder trial in France.

00:02:54.000 With Freemasons that went and killed a lot of people.

00:02:56.000 I think there are 20 something people on trial.

00:02:58.000 Maybe the conspiracy theorists had it right, and a couple of other topics that we will love to get a little bit more in depth with.

00:03:05.000 And to do that and more, I bring people to the table who know more about this than I do so that you guys get the very best information.

00:03:13.000 And that is why we have the very wonderfully talented Jay Dyer with us today.

00:03:23.000 All right, Mr. Jay Dyer, welcome.

00:03:24.000 Thank you for joining us.

00:03:26.000 I hear you're on a road trip right now.

00:03:28.000 Yeah, all the podcasts.

00:03:29.000 You are 19 of 19.

00:03:30.000 So we're the very tail end, the dregs of Jay Dyer's brain at the end of how long?

00:03:36.000 Five weeks?

00:03:37.000 Five weeks.

00:03:38.000 That's last week, yes.

00:03:39.000 Well, I feel special because we've saved you, you've saved the best for last in us.

00:03:43.000 And that makes me feel.

00:03:44.000 It's only because of location, not because of quality.

00:03:46.000 Oh, okay.

00:03:46.000 It's not prioritized.

00:03:47.000 No, just location.

00:03:48.000 It's okay if it was.

00:03:49.000 Don't worry.

00:03:50.000 Best places to find you on X, J007 and Jay's analysis.com.

00:03:56.000 Actually, no, now it's, it's, oh, no, sorry.

00:03:58.000 It's Jay Dyer.

00:03:59.000 I bought the handle J Dyer on Twitter.

00:04:01.000 You know, we're a professional show, but sometimes at J Dyer, J A Y D Y E R. Perfect. 0.94

00:04:10.000 Okay. 0.96

00:04:11.000 We have a few topics to get to that I think our audience will be pretty interested in.

00:04:16.000 One of them is the Freemasons and some really interesting, maybe another conspiracy turns out, maybe not so conspiratorial. 0.85

00:04:24.000 And then this real weird push that I've noticed lately over the last several months to sanitize Islam. 0.92

00:04:31.000 Right. 0.96

00:04:33.000 But this very interesting wedge that they are trying to drive between the kind of Catholic orthodox side of the church and the more Protestant, evangelical side and Judaism, and saying, you don't want to be like them, right? 0.84

00:04:47.000 Kind of using the Judaism wedge there. 0.79

00:04:50.000 So just wanted to talk about that.

00:04:51.000 And then also Pam Bondi being ousted as the attorney general and what that means for the Epstein files.

00:04:57.000 I know you've commented on that a lot.

00:04:59.000 But before we get to all of those, you sent me a clip.

00:05:03.000 You send me clips every once in a while of different debates.

00:05:05.000 You know, I enjoy those things.

00:05:07.000 So I appreciate that.

00:05:08.000 But this was a conversation that you had.

00:05:10.000 I'm not going to play the clip, but a conversation that Jay had with Tim Poole.

00:05:15.000 And you spent what I don't think was a planned half hour, roughly, kind of going through Tim's worldview.

00:05:25.000 And I don't remember exactly how it came up, other than like a free market system versus like a communist system.

00:05:31.000 Company towns.

00:05:32.000 Company towns and blue jeans and selling all the.

00:05:32.000 That's right.

00:05:32.000 Yeah.

00:05:35.000 That's right.

00:05:35.000 Okay.

00:05:36.000 Anyway, go find the clip, guys.

00:05:38.000 We'll try to include a link for it.

00:05:39.000 It's about half an hour.

00:05:40.000 You can find it on Jay's.

00:05:43.000 I think you posted it there.

00:05:44.000 It's everywhere, yeah.

00:05:45.000 Yeah, as well as YouTube.

00:05:47.000 So it's funny because it struck me, and I wanted to get your take on this and really kind of explain what was happening there, at least from your perspective, because that wasn't really something that was supposed to be a 30 minute deep dive.

00:05:59.000 And Tim got very frustrated.

00:06:01.000 I love Tim.

00:06:01.000 I think Tim was wrestling with some ideas in his head, but like what happened there kind of from your perspective?

00:06:08.000 Well, I have done multiple debates there.

00:06:11.000 So I kind of expected there might be a debate.

00:06:13.000 And I talked to Josie ahead of time, and you know, I'd done Tim Gordon twice debating him there, and you've had Tim on, but there was a Protestant in one time that you there was. 0.95

00:06:21.000 I think y'all basically both were like, Yeah, you shut up, and we're gonna nicely. 0.63

00:06:26.000 Well, so yeah, what happened was just in passing conversation, the subject of company or I brought up company towns in comparison to kind of top down control structures.

00:06:37.000 I don't think there's a huge difference between the way Stalin would have run Russia and the way a company town would have been run, and that really seemed to be an issue of contention.

00:06:44.000 So that led to a lengthy, protracted discussion defending.

00:06:48.000 Whether a company town was really free market.

00:06:50.000 I see it as more of a not Austrian economics principle system, but more of a monopoly capitalist system.

00:06:56.000 And that then led into a debate about the history of communism, the history of capitalism, what classical liberalism is, what laissez faire is, what utilitarianism is.

00:07:06.000 And I don't think Tim was aware that the positions that he was saying were actually utilitarian.

00:07:11.000 Yeah.

00:07:12.000 And that seemed to frustrate him when you pointed out, like, well, that's this kind of position.

00:07:16.000 He's like, no, deal with the argument.

00:07:17.000 You're like, well, I'm dealing with what underpins the argument.

00:07:20.000 Like, I'm going to the foundation of your argument.

00:07:23.000 It's not dealing with kind of these one off issues that may come up from it.

00:07:28.000 And it seemed like, and I was talking to you just before we went live, it seemed like Tim has a worldview that, for the most part, or a large part, I haven't explored all of it.

00:07:38.000 So I can't say I know every detail of what he believes, but it seems like it wants to be grounded in kind of Christian ethics, but he didn't want to say that.

00:07:51.000 Wanted to say, like, this is actually something that we can observe in nature.

00:07:53.000 This works.

00:07:54.000 And you made some arguments there about how that's kind of a problem.

00:07:59.000 It's inconsistent, basically, to say, you know, well, I'm going to pick the elements of this system that I think work, and then I'm going to reject all the metaphysics or the theology behind it because those, you know, they kind of go together.

00:08:12.000 And also, there's not really a basis to know what it means for something necessarily to work, right?

00:08:17.000 And I don't mean to get too philosophical, but in philosophy, just because something works, well, works to do what?

00:08:23.000 Right.

00:08:23.000 I mean, a nuclear bomb could work to destroy all of my enemies, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a good thing or it's ethical or whatever.

00:08:29.000 So, just having something work or it kind of begs the question as to what's the purpose and is this working for something good or for something evil?

00:08:39.000 So, when you just sort of have these generic principles that you apply, that you appeal to, if there's not a basis for the principles, then it becomes very arbitrary.

00:08:48.000 And that's kind of what I was trying to highlight.

00:08:49.000 And I think, like you said there, like one of the things that I always do if I'm debating an atheist or somebody like that is.

00:08:54.000 I go to the presuppositions and I critique what's underlying the arguments that they're making.

00:08:59.000 And that usually ends up being a very devastating approach.

00:09:02.000 Yeah.

00:09:02.000 And why?

00:09:03.000 Maybe tell the audience because I love debate.

00:09:06.000 I don't like protracted debates that don't really get anywhere.

00:09:09.000 I like debates that are actually fruitful, substantive.

00:09:12.000 Yeah.

00:09:13.000 And you have a good faith partner on the other side that's willing to take good critique.

00:09:17.000 And I think there's a lot of examples that stretch on for hours and hours where, I mean, I've seen Andrew debate people and try to get them to define a term for an hour.

00:09:24.000 And they refuse to define an obvious term, right?

00:09:26.000 And that it's because they know where that leads.

00:09:28.000 Right.

00:09:29.000 And then it's nowhere good for their argument.

00:09:31.000 And a lot of people online don't really have much of a background in debate.

00:09:35.000 I get it.

00:09:35.000 That's fine.

00:09:37.000 But if you do, you start to see very quickly, like, wait a minute, like these.

00:09:41.000 These arguments that we're having are on all these issues that aren't really the argument that we should be having or the conversation we should be having.

00:09:46.000 It should be like, where are you getting your beliefs from?

00:09:51.000 Like, what is the core of your belief?

00:09:53.000 What are the anchor points, the epistemology, right?

00:09:57.000 Of what are you pulling from to get this belief?

00:10:00.000 And if you don't know that, it can lead you into a lot of different crazy areas.

00:10:04.000 Is that kind of what you find as well?

00:10:05.000 You spend a lot of time trying to define terms and trying to go after kind of the basics of what people actually are pulling from.

00:10:12.000 Yeah, I agree with you.

00:10:13.000 The formal debates tend to be a lot more fruitful because you have a significant amount of time to explain your position.

00:10:19.000 And you also have cross examination with a good moderator.

00:10:23.000 And those are a lot more fruitful than the sort of wilds, all over the place, blood sport type debates.

00:10:28.000 But those can be fun and entertaining.

00:10:29.000 Yeah.

00:10:30.000 But it's a lot more fruitful when you can define the terms.

00:10:33.000 I don't usually have too much of a problem defining terms because I think what happens with Andrew, he's really good at picking the cultural issues to debate.

00:10:41.000 And then a lot of times when you have those cultural issues that you're debating, The opponents are going to be obsessed with or unable to define terms.

00:10:50.000 I remember debating Not So Erudite, and she wanted me to define feminism, define this and that.

00:10:55.000 And I defined it, but it was too specific because it was related to history.

00:11:00.000 She just wanted a dictionary definition.

00:11:01.000 So I think with a lot of the leftists and the sort of cultural people, they think that the meaning of a term or definition is just what you find in the dictionary.

00:11:09.000 Of course, if you're debating movements or if you're debating big scale ideas or something like that, there's a lot more that goes into it.

00:11:14.000 You can't just use a simple, oversimplified definition.

00:11:17.000 I think in Mainline debate that goes on out there, especially culture stuff, it's a different field than if you're trying to debate somebody on something that's very technical.

00:11:32.000 That makes sense.

00:11:33.000 And the Tim Pool debate actually, and Andrew had the same debate, interestingly, with Tim a year before over the notion of rights and justifying the rights and how do we ground them.

00:11:43.000 I didn't know that, again, that that discussion was going to go in that direction, but it ended up going that way because it was just sort of.

00:11:49.000 A lot of appeals to general ideas that didn't have any grounding.

00:11:52.000 And that's when you said epistemology, that's the key thing with what we mean by that typically in debate we need to know not just any old reasons for your belief, but what are the good reasons for the belief, right?

00:12:06.000 Right.

00:12:06.000 You know, if I said, oh, I bought Bitcoin, you know, when it was $10, and you say, oh, did you read a bunch of economics?

00:12:15.000 No, I had a dream and God told me to buy Bitcoin.

00:12:17.000 Well, that's not a good reason to, you know, it might have worked.

00:12:21.000 Yes.

00:12:21.000 But it's not a good reason.

00:12:22.000 You're not going to try to replicate it.

00:12:23.000 You're not going to build a system of beliefs or practices around that.

00:12:26.000 And I, so this, I haven't had any formal training in debate.

00:12:29.000 Andrew's talked to me about debating with him against a couple of people.

00:12:32.000 And I always feel like I'm going to be on the court with like, you know, name your favorite bat, like Michael Jordan.

00:12:36.000 And I'm just kind of like the water boy over here, you know, like very skilled people.

00:12:40.000 And I feel like you're in that category too, where y'all have studied this.

00:12:44.000 You have a good background in philosophy and you understand logic very well.

00:12:48.000 And so many people don't.

00:12:50.000 And I think that leads us to a place where we don't know why we believe what we believe.

00:12:54.000 And I've always, So, I've said that for probably the last 10 years.

00:12:57.000 Know why you believe what you believe.

00:12:58.000 It's incredibly important to know that.

00:13:00.000 And I mostly meant it in the frame of biblical belief.

00:13:04.000 Like, if you believe in God, why?

00:13:05.000 If you don't, why?

00:13:07.000 And most people don't usually answer those questions.

00:13:09.000 They just either do or don't.

00:13:11.000 Right.

00:13:11.000 And I think it's very important today for people to know why they believe what they believe.

00:13:16.000 And when you interact online quite a bit, as I do, you see a lot of people that really have no clue.

00:13:22.000 And it does, you are protected when you have those kind of moorings from buying crazy ideas.

00:13:29.000 Yeah.

00:13:30.000 And you can kind of go back to the roots of your beliefs and go, wait a minute, this is a little off the beam and you can evaluate it.

00:13:37.000 When you don't, you can just kind of float around and believe whatever you want.

00:13:40.000 And you can be swayed by the doctrine of the day, essentially.

00:13:42.000 So that's why I wanted to jump into that because I think it's important to see, like, hey, there's some people that I like, like Tim Poole, who I think probably has, you know, way more in common with what I believe than what I would kind of reject of his beliefs.

00:13:56.000 But it seemed like he really just didn't want to ground it in Christianity.

00:13:59.000 He didn't want to ground it in Christian ethics.

00:14:01.000 And that belief, he wanted to kind of have it be broader, but he couldn't find any place to anchor it.

00:14:06.000 And I thought that was interesting.

00:14:07.000 So, not a topic necessarily that I wanted to dive too deeply into, but I thought it was interesting.

00:14:11.000 And, I think it's instructive for us to make sure that we know why we believe what we believe.

00:14:15.000 So when we talk about these things, I always know you have a reason for any, even if it's a conspiracy theory, you know, that you think is interesting, right?

00:14:23.000 You know, or want to dive into.

00:14:25.000 But that kind of brings us to our first story.

00:14:28.000 So you sent me this.

00:14:29.000 Now, strangely enough, I'd actually seen this.

00:14:31.000 I don't remember why I had seen this already, but Freemasons.

00:14:36.000 So there are a lot of conspiracy theories out there about Freemasons.

00:14:39.000 And just to clarify, just because I say it's a conspiracy theory, it's not necessarily the derogatory.

00:14:44.000 Approach to it.

00:14:45.000 It's that, you know, you can't really prove it.

00:14:47.000 There's a lot of different theories about it.

00:14:50.000 I don't mean it that way, at least.

00:14:52.000 So defining a term doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

00:14:54.000 But there are a lot of conspiracies out there about the Freemasons and things that happen.

00:15:00.000 Until you read an article about the murders in France, and so we have the overlay here trials underway in France for 22 people who officials allege ordered or carried out crimes for a group of Freemasons living in the suburb of Paris.

00:15:12.000 Multiple people killed in different fields and different industries.

00:15:19.000 What is that?

00:15:20.000 Because this is kind of right up your alley.

00:15:22.000 I think you were at a Freemason point of interest recently.

00:15:26.000 Yes, we were.

00:15:26.000 And they had, what was that?

00:15:28.000 Was that Mecca that they had? 0.80

00:15:29.000 Well, they did.

00:15:30.000 So we went to the Washington Monument in Alexandria, not the Washington Monument, the D.C., but in Alexandria, they have a giant sort of temple that you can tour.

00:15:43.000 And my wife had been there.

00:15:45.000 It's a temple to Freemasonry, I think.

00:15:46.000 It is. 0.99

00:15:47.000 Right.

00:15:47.000 Okay.

00:15:47.000 Yeah.

00:15:48.000 But it's a.

00:15:50.000 The whole ethos of it is really just sort of honoring George Washington, is the main theme of it.

00:15:54.000 But my wife had been there like 10 years ago, and she was like, Oh, you got to come see this.

00:15:58.000 And I was just kind of like, I'm just, you know, I'm not that interested.

00:16:01.000 But it was actually worth doing because we got a guy who's a historian who's a Freemason, and he kind of gave us the full on, you know, like, here is what we actually believe.

00:16:11.000 And if I was to summarize it just simply, the ethos of it is essentially a kind of a syncretist, ecumenist type of view.

00:16:20.000 So basically, all the religions are really just manifestations of some sort of generic theism.

00:16:26.000 Right.

00:16:27.000 And to be a Freemason does require acknowledging some generic creator.

00:16:33.000 So you can't get into the lodge unless you believe there is a higher power, sort of an AA type of deity.

00:16:40.000 But kind of an unnamed higher power.

00:16:42.000 It's God, but like not maybe a specific person.

00:16:44.000 And they will actually shy away from the specifics.

00:16:46.000 Right. 0.53

00:16:47.000 So if you want to believe in Jesus, that's fine, but don't tell the Hindu dude over here who joined the lodge that his deity is wrong.

00:16:53.000 So. 0.73

00:16:54.000 And that's kind of what I knew from what I'd read.

00:16:57.000 And I've looked, I always try to go to the sources of things.

00:17:00.000 So if I'm going to talk about David Rockefeller's views, there's a big new Brzezinski's views.

00:17:04.000 I want to talk about what they said in their book, right?

00:17:06.000 So I tend to not like conspiracy theories, even though I would be classed hosting Alex Jones as, you know, in the domain of conspiracy theories.

00:17:13.000 Hey, guys, bring the tinfoil hat out.

00:17:15.000 Thanks. 1.00

00:17:16.000 Gay frogs as well. 1.00

00:17:17.000 That turned out to be true. 1.00

00:17:18.000 Well, I got tired of being called a conspiracy theorist in undergrad and grad school.

00:17:22.000 So I decided, okay, I'll just read the books of these people, and then you can't argue with me that I'm a conspiracy theorist.

00:17:27.000 You must have been fun at parties.

00:17:30.000 I've been asked to leave a few.

00:17:31.000 So, yeah, actually.

00:17:35.000 But back to the Freemasons.

00:17:36.000 So basically, my overall assessment would be I've read Manly P. Hall, I've read Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, so I'm familiar with the overall philosophy of the top Masons.

00:17:46.000 But really, it's just kind of an antithetical idea to what Jesus says in John 14, right?

00:17:54.000 I'm the way, the truth, and the life.

00:17:55.000 No one comes to the Father but through me.

00:17:57.000 So that's the main, I think, point of contention.

00:17:59.000 If you take the New Testament seriously, you'd have to disagree with that element of Freemasonry.

00:18:06.000 But beyond that, I believe also from history, the British Empire, for example, they were very proficient at using the Masonic Lodges as an intelligence network.

00:18:16.000 And that's a good window into perhaps what we see with this news story is that it's just a really good venue, you could say, for organized crime to tap into and to use because of the oaths of secrecy, that kind of stuff.

00:18:31.000 In this very case, for example, there were one or maybe two individuals who were working with French intelligence, right?

00:18:38.000 And so, again, this overlap of secret societies and intelligence agencies, something that I've covered quite a bit over the years in my books and in Hollywood analysis, makes perfect sense to me.

00:18:49.000 So, I'm not really surprised, although I don't think we usually see this level of extremity when it comes to these types of cases.

00:18:55.000 But there is similar stories with Operation Gladio, which was using the Grand Orient P2 Lodge.

00:19:01.000 And they were training people for these types of hits, terror events, assassinations, you name it. 0.89

00:19:08.000 And you can go all the way back to in America.

00:19:10.000 There's a case of William Morgan, who was a Freemason, or he was calling attention to the fact that he was murdered by Freemasons.

00:19:16.000 And this led to America's short lived anti Masonic party.

00:19:20.000 There actually used to be a party in America called the Anti Masonic Party due to the William Morgan event because the Masons had murdered a guy.

00:19:27.000 So I don't think this is like super common, but I do think it exists.

00:19:32.000 And the better method of understanding it is there's a historian, her name is Jessica Harlan Jacobs.

00:19:36.000 She wrote a book called Builders of Empire.

00:19:39.000 And she really just points out that the British super state, the empire, used the Masonic networks just as an intelligence apparatus.

00:19:48.000 I think that's a lot of what's going on here, probably in this case as well.

00:19:52.000 I don't think the Masons are as popular as they used to be 100 years ago when you had people like Rudyard Kipling writing books about it.

00:19:58.000 And there's a great movie that I think illustrates this point, too.

00:20:01.000 It's kind of a satire, but it's Kipling's story The Man Who Would Be King.

00:20:04.000 It's got Michael Caine.

00:20:06.000 Do you like Michael Caine?

00:20:07.000 It's got Michael Caine, it's got Sean Connery, and they play Freemasons.

00:20:10.000 And they go and they trick everybody in a village.

00:20:13.000 To believing in Sean Connery as a reincarnated Alexander the Great.

00:20:20.000 So, but what's, yeah, it's kind of a satire.

00:20:23.000 It's an adventure kind of story, but it's Kipling's story kind of trying to tell you what Freemasonry is.

00:20:30.000 And so they kind of see it like, look, all the religions are kind of cons, but you can do a lot with this con, right?

00:20:38.000 So I think Freemasonry is like that.

00:20:40.000 Yeah.

00:20:40.000 So, you know, when I first read this, you know, the first question was like, is this just like an isolated incident or is this like proof of a, A broader conspiracy, but it seems like you're saying it's fertile ground for these types of things to happen because of the secrecy, because of this.

00:20:57.000 You know, we're doing something for a higher purpose.

00:20:59.000 I don't know if that purpose is laid out or this higher good is laid out.

00:21:02.000 Well, in this case, great question.

00:21:04.000 In this case, there's two possibilities because we don't really know exactly what was going on, but it could either be a situation where they actually were working at the behest of the French intelligence establishment and were being tasked with kind of outsourcing black ops and things that maybe the state didn't want.

00:21:22.000 With some distance.

00:21:23.000 Exactly.

00:21:24.000 Plausible deniability.

00:21:26.000 And I interviewed a while back the famous gangster Sammy the Bull.

00:21:33.000 We did several podcasts and he made a great point too.

00:21:35.000 He was like, Look, when I was raised up in the Sicilian Mafia, he's like, We had a very similar structure to Freemasonry with the omerta, which is the oath you take, the blood oath, you have rituals that you go through to sort of join.

00:21:49.000 And, you know, it's taken very seriously.

00:21:50.000 And he's like, You know, I realize that this is very similar to the way that the Masons have historically structured things.

00:21:57.000 And that's partly because the Freemasonic revolutionary France, Garibaldi, he had a very close relationship with the Sicilian Mafia.

00:22:06.000 And so they kind of blended and had a lot of overlap.

00:22:08.000 And if you get into the history of the five families, a great book by Selwyn Robb called The Five Families, first few chapters get into this the history of the mafia.

00:22:15.000 And there was an absolute connection between the Masons and the mafiosi back then.

00:22:21.000 And Sammy the Bull confirmed all that.

00:22:23.000 But long story short, I think that's another window into this how it's similar to organized crime.

00:22:28.000 But the other option, if it's not the state using this as a sort of excuse or proxy, could also be what's called false flag rigor.

00:22:36.000 Recruitment, which is where a person pretends to be somebody, oh, hey, we're the CIA and you need to come work for us, but they're actually Russians or something, right?

00:22:44.000 Pretending to be.

00:22:45.000 So it could be the case that it was just an organized crime outfit.

00:22:47.000 It could be individual people running their own little criminal operation, or it could have been something bigger, something like a, you know, establishment, French establishment hit squad.

00:22:58.000 And those do exist.

00:22:59.000 Like, they are.

00:23:00.000 I don't disagree.

00:23:01.000 Now, I don't know if they're the ones that got Charlie Kirk or not, but I do understand that they're.

00:23:05.000 Well, you know what's so annoying about that was as soon as I saw the story, I'm like, okay, here we go.

00:23:09.000 I know, right? 0.98

00:23:10.000 Queen Qandas is going to immediately jump on this and say, I'm saying that cute with a Q, like cute hard, right?

00:23:17.000 Justification, I told you.

00:23:18.000 And it's like, no, that's not.

00:23:20.000 This doesn't say anything about the French Legionnaires.

00:23:22.000 It has nothing to do with you.

00:23:23.000 I know.

00:23:24.000 Yeah.

00:23:24.000 So, and nothing to do with your lawyer's office that was right there.

00:23:28.000 Well, and I think I appreciate you framing it that way because I think people may run to the okay, so the Freemasons are this like organization that has their tentacles and everything, and they're the initiators of these kinds of actions.

00:23:41.000 And really, it looks like these are kind of.

00:23:44.000 One offs where they're used in a large part.

00:23:47.000 And also, even one of the guys in, I think in this article, one of the guys who committed some of the crimes, I don't know if it was the murders or if it was just some of the robberies or other things that they did, said he thought he was working for, I believe he said he thought he was working for the French government.

00:24:01.000 Yeah, which could be a false recruitment.

00:24:03.000 So it fits right with what you were saying.

00:24:04.000 Yeah, that's a possibility too.

00:24:05.000 And also, I want to stress that like this is, so I think European masonry does have a bit of a different flavor to the way Bible Belt, you know, granddaddy at the lodge.

00:24:15.000 My granddad was in the Masonic Lodge.

00:24:17.000 He was a shriner.

00:24:18.000 My best.

00:24:18.000 Friend growing up was a Mason.

00:24:19.000 I have a family member that is, and they don't know any of this stuff.

00:24:23.000 Right.

00:24:24.000 So, but what I think happens is that you get vetted and recruited and invited to higher level stuff.

00:24:32.000 So, it's kind of a vetting process.

00:24:33.000 Right.

00:24:34.000 So, if you're willing to do more intense, extreme things, and I think the way it works in America and the Scottish, right, is like you don't get invited to the DC 33rd degree unless you're very prominent.

00:24:46.000 And that's, I think, where.

00:24:48.000 Things would probably get a little more serious.

00:24:50.000 But the local Blue Lodge, the three degrees, the local Blue Lodge, where everybody's just meeting and, I don't know, eating spaghetti or whatever they do.

00:24:58.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:24:58.000 But boomers eating potluck food. 1.00

00:25:02.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:25:02.000 Is probably not a. 1.00

00:25:04.000 Feeling like they're a part of a secret society taking over the world or secretly controlling things. 1.00

00:25:09.000 I thought it was the Jews. 1.00

00:25:09.000 Turns out it was the Masons. 1.00

00:25:11.000 Okay.

00:25:12.000 Well, I want to keep kind of going with that for just one second.

00:25:15.000 Like, are there any other, like, things just to dispel or confirm any other concerns that we should have potentially about Freemasons?

00:25:22.000 Because that's one, right?

00:25:23.000 Like, if they are kind of carrying out these targeted attacks on people that would be against whatever Freemasons are for in that particular area, is there anything else concerning about that?

00:25:32.000 Like, going back to the, you know, The all gods are kind of there.

00:25:36.000 Yeah, I think this the concerning element is even at the Blue Lodge, like the basic idea is still a kind of syncretism or pluralism that just doesn't fit with Christ's teaching.

00:25:52.000 So, as a Christian, it's definitely not an organization that you should be a part of. 0.92

00:25:57.000 I don't see how a Christian could be. 0.87

00:25:59.000 I mean, and of course, Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church in their official teachings say that you can't, it's a violation of canon law. 0.99

00:25:59.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:26:06.000 Classic Protestant churches have also said you can't, um, you know, I guess that doesn't apply to Baptist deacons because most Baptist deacons are members of the lodge, but uh, yeah, so they're also drinkers, so oh, yeah, um,

00:26:21.000 but the other thing I would add too is like, and I'm not defending like the Scottish right, I think it's just as bad theologically as the European Grand Orient, but there's a lot more nefarious kind of stuff that tends to happen in like the Grand Orient lodges because they were very famous in the French Revolution for helping to support.

00:26:39.000 The revolutionaries and their committee for public safety, 10, 20,000 people getting their heads chopped off.

00:26:46.000 Oh, wow, yeah.

00:26:47.000 So, and the Masonic elements had a huge role in that, particularly the really radical Jacobins.

00:26:52.000 And they were very closely tied to the lodges of Europe.

00:26:55.000 And that's not from my historian professor in undergrad.

00:27:02.000 He was like a specialist on the French Revolution.

00:27:04.000 He was like, yeah, it was basically a Freemasonic thing.

00:27:08.000 And I think that's a different flavor typically from what you have in other branches, perhaps, of Masonry.

00:27:13.000 But overall, you're right.

00:27:14.000 I think they're still spiritually bad.

00:27:15.000 There's almost like there's a retail version of Masonry that most people are probably involved with that are in Masonry.

00:27:21.000 And then there's some that maybe has a history, like you said, of being much more active and playing a bigger part in the local society.

00:27:28.000 So, okay.

00:27:29.000 Well, very interesting.

00:27:31.000 When I saw this story and I was like, I don't know where we're going to go with this, I don't know if Freemasons really, is this going to end up being another Dan Brown book or something?

00:27:38.000 Like, there's different stories.

00:27:39.000 But one last thing, too, that I think is a good window into this for what I'm talking about with the European element is the propaganda Douay Lodge.

00:27:47.000 And that's Italy's elite Grand Orient Lodge.

00:27:50.000 And that's where Gladio recruited a lot of its hit squads from. 0.64

00:27:54.000 So, this is probably Grand Orient Masonry.

00:27:57.000 I don't know which lodge it is, but that would make a lot more sense with the way Gladio was structured, which is the post World War II, Cold War era CIA training of, and Kissinger really ran this whole operation according to multiple sources to stave off a Soviet invasion of Europe.

00:28:13.000 Yeah.

00:28:14.000 And that led to the compromising of the Vatican Bank, et cetera.

00:28:17.000 So, that's what this kind of looks like is that style of thing.

00:28:20.000 That's crazy.

00:28:21.000 I mean, to hear something like that, it feels like something that's 30 or 40 years past its prime.

00:28:26.000 You know, like there was a lot more fervor about this when I was a kid.

00:28:29.000 And talking, you know, you would hear Cold War talk about it.

00:28:32.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:28:32.000 Around that time period.

00:28:33.000 Okay.

00:28:33.000 Well, that makes sense then.

00:28:34.000 But the Cold War stuff, the timing makes a lot of sense.

00:28:37.000 By the way, I read it's a book on the CIA, Something in Ashes.

00:28:44.000 Legacy of Ashes.

00:28:45.000 Thank you.

00:28:46.000 It was really good.

00:28:46.000 And it's like, wow, we were just throwing stuff against the wall.

00:28:49.000 We had no idea they're talking about how many people.

00:28:52.000 That the CIA had sent into these countries to gather intel or to try to subvert governments.

00:28:57.000 And they were just mowed down because they already knew we were coming or they had an informant.

00:29:02.000 Like, we were not prepared at all.

00:29:04.000 Well, I just did a crazy interview with John Kiriakou.

00:29:07.000 We did a two hour interview on a lot of this stuff.

00:29:09.000 And he was saying basically a separate interview, but he was saying that he was one of the guys that was tasked with coming up with crazy ideas.

00:29:16.000 Yeah.

00:29:16.000 So he would say, I would come up with 20 different crazy ideas and we would do two of the 20 crazy ideas.

00:29:21.000 But that's part of the job of an operative to come up with crazy ideas.

00:29:24.000 And yeah, a lot of times people get killed.

00:29:27.000 Lots.

00:29:28.000 The way that the book described it, it was just like sometimes 10, 20, 30 people that were dropped into a country were immediately captured and killed.

00:29:34.000 Yep.

00:29:34.000 I mean, immediately.

00:29:35.000 Like, as they hit the ground, they were met with an entourage of welcome, but not for welcoming purposes.

00:29:41.000 He said the same thing about his operations in Greece.

00:29:44.000 And I didn't realize how vicious the leftists in Greece were in the Cold War.

00:29:49.000 And, well, post Cold War and towards the end of the Cold War.

00:29:51.000 But, I mean, they were like hit squads.

00:29:54.000 It was crazy.

00:29:55.000 Like, you don't think of the left.

00:29:56.000 You know, we think of the left as like the purple haired.

00:29:58.000 Freaks at college, but AOC or something, yeah.

00:30:01.000 But no, these are like serious AOC with like an Uzi in training exactly.

00:30:04.000 Real leftist, yeah.

00:30:05.000 Um, all right, well, let's dive into another topic.

00:30:08.000 This one touches on obviously there's a faith thread through just about everything that we do, but specifically, obviously, in the Masons.

00:30:16.000 So, as Christians, Masonry is not so good.

00:30:18.000 Let me know in the comments what you think. 0.63

00:30:20.000 If you disagree, I'll point you to the all gods kind of thing that violates what we talked about. 0.86

00:30:26.000 Um, and we're going to dive into Islam and Islam's kind of Relationship to the West.

00:30:33.000 And it's very interesting.

00:30:34.000 I've seen a move here with what happened in Gaza.

00:30:40.000 October 7th happens.

00:30:43.000 Israel, Lovell Merhatem, has been kind of in a decent position with the United States, probably a pretty favorable position with the general population in the United States. 0.83

00:30:53.000 That support goes up because it's a tragedy and it's an event that we're like, everybody's shocked by, right?

00:30:59.000 You can get into how it happened, why it happened, all of the stories about that.

00:31:03.000 And then the aftermath is.

00:31:05.000 No matter what you think about Israel, no matter what you think about Gaza and Hamas, it's a tragedy when something like that happens in Gaza.

00:31:13.000 Nobody, I think, on any kind of credible side of this has been denying that it's a tragedy.

00:31:19.000 It's just whether or not that is something that should have happened, shouldn't have happened, should have happened differently. 0.95

00:31:23.000 I'm in the camp of they should have taken care of Hamas, but it should have happened much differently. 0.82

00:31:27.000 I think he lost a lot of support for a reasonable cause, a debatable cause, right? 0.82

00:31:34.000 And Israel's standing.

00:31:36.000 Especially among the younger generation, has just plummeted. 0.89

00:31:40.000 Just absolutely plummeted to the point where I see posts that I'm like, listen, I've seen these kinds of things before.

00:31:46.000 And it doesn't normally lead to a very good place.

00:31:49.000 There's a difference between saying, like, I think Netanyahu is probably a war criminal.

00:31:52.000 He probably needs to be tried so they can get to the bottom of it.

00:31:54.000 I think there's plenty of war crimes you can probably look at that happen in Gaza. 0.52

00:31:57.000 And we should make sure nothing like that ever happens again. 0.99

00:32:00.000 Two, we need to kill all the Jews or we need to get rid of the state of Israel completely and wipe it off the map. 1.00

00:32:07.000 Or, you know, from the river to the sea sounds like a great idea now. 1.00

00:32:10.000 Talking not just about the river that's close, the river that's far, like there would be no Israel after that. 0.96

00:32:17.000 I've seen that kind of stuff.

00:32:18.000 And then I've seen people start to really kind of turn on President Trump in a way that I was very surprised by.

00:32:26.000 And we've been critical where it's necessary because we disagree with some of the things he's done.

00:32:32.000 We disagree with how he's handling some of the optics around big stories.

00:32:38.000 And we'll talk about one of those with the Epstein files.

00:32:40.000 A little bit.

00:32:41.000 I have some substantive disagreements as well, but at the very least, it was horribly messaged.

00:32:45.000 Right.

00:32:46.000 And that's fine to have that kind of a disagreement.

00:32:48.000 But when you start turning on everybody that has a pretty good track record, has been pretty consistent on these issues in the past, and you start kind of aligning yourself with somebody who you would never a few years ago consider a friend or an ally, that's probably a better way to say it because there might be some good people, but you wouldn't align with their views.

00:33:12.000 It gets really dicey.

00:33:13.000 And that doesn't mean like, you know, you may not like President Trump.

00:33:16.000 You may think he's gone completely off the rails and whatever.

00:33:18.000 I'm not saying that.

00:33:19.000 I'm saying like, Going so far as to go, well, if I can't trust this anymore, I'm going to go to Islam and I'm a Christian. 0.57

00:33:27.000 That's the kind of world that I'm seeing right now. 0.98

00:33:31.000 And I don't know that I really understand completely what's going on, but I see it as kind of this wedge.

00:33:36.000 And so let me just bring up this post by Sneeko that kind of illustrates my point.

00:33:40.000 And I can't remember exactly what day.

00:33:41.000 So if we can bring up Sneeko, he posted this on X. Is there a date down there?

00:33:47.000 It's a little too small for me to see.

00:33:48.000 It's in March.

00:33:49.000 Is it March 5th?

00:33:50.000 6th.

00:33:50.000 Okay.

00:33:51.000 So March 6th, he posted this. 0.55

00:33:53.000 Catholic slash Orthodox Christians have more in common with Muslims than they do with the warmongering evangelicals.

00:34:00.000 And listen, he's saying warmongering. 0.61

00:34:01.000 He's just saying evangelicals in government and worship Jews.

00:34:06.000 And I'm sorry, in government who worship Jews and want Armageddon.

00:34:12.000 How did that strike you? 0.98

00:34:13.000 Because I know you've, I think you've tangled with Sneeko before.

00:34:15.000 Yeah.

00:34:15.000 We actually had a sort of debate.

00:34:18.000 I mean, actually, that was funny because the debate was, was, Andrew versus Sneeko and his buddy apologist.

00:34:25.000 I forget the guy's name.

00:34:26.000 Is this the one where he refused to?

00:34:27.000 Well, they booted Andrew.

00:34:28.000 Because Andrew was making some jokes that they didn't like.

00:34:28.000 Yeah.

00:34:32.000 He started off nice.

00:34:34.000 They didn't like the jokes.

00:34:36.000 And then they said, well, you come debate Trinity instead of that.

00:34:38.000 And so I hopped on and we ended up having it.

00:34:40.000 It was Muslim Lantern.

00:34:41.000 So we had a two hour debate.

00:34:41.000 That's the guy.

00:34:42.000 And it's funny because I can't find that debate other than my clips of it.

00:34:47.000 So I think they were not a huge fan of that debate.

00:34:50.000 I don't think it's on Rumble anymore.

00:34:51.000 It may, maybe I just can't find the title.

00:34:53.000 It's not on YouTube.

00:34:55.000 I know Sneeko got taken out of YouTube, but regardless, so I'm familiar with this line of reasoning.

00:35:02.000 I think it's so low tier, it's so silly that it's surprising that people fall for it.

00:35:07.000 But then again, to answer your question, I think it's dialectics.

00:35:10.000 Humans are very susceptible to two choices.

00:35:14.000 And if you choose this one, then the other one's the bad guy, right?

00:35:18.000 And life is more nuanced than that, right?

00:35:22.000 You can have two organized crime factions fighting each other.

00:35:25.000 That doesn't mean that one of those guys is the good guy, right?

00:35:27.000 Tony Soprano goes to war against the five families in the show, and they're all bad guys, but they have different motivations.

00:35:33.000 So I think in geopolitics, it's pretty similar. 0.90

00:35:36.000 This one is a little more hairy, though, because it brings in religion, which makes it more difficult. 0.99

00:35:41.000 But people do not understand that Islam is not the friend of Christianity. 0.95

00:35:47.000 They think that that whole, you know, we're closer on the same page because Muslims say Jesus is a prophet.

00:35:55.000 Yeah, but John says in 1 John 2, if you don't believe in the Son as the Son of God coming to the flesh, you're Antichrist. 0.80

00:36:02.000 And Muslims also have the teaching in the Quran, which I didn't believe this back before I had studied Islam.

00:36:06.000 I thought, oh, they're just saying that about Muslims.

00:36:08.000 It's not true. 1.00

00:36:09.000 But no, they actually have the teaching that you smile with your face, but you oppose them in your heart.

00:36:14.000 And that's what they do until they have the upper hand.

00:36:17.000 That's actually a deception, essentially.

00:36:19.000 They can do that, yes.

00:36:20.000 And by the way, Allah in the Quran is the greatest of deceivers.

00:36:24.000 So why would you not be able to be a deceiver if Allah is the greatest of deceivers?

00:36:27.000 It kind of falls apart really quickly. 0.98

00:36:28.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:36:30.000 And so, although the Sunnis will say, oh, technically we can't do takiyya, they still can and they still will, even though the Shias believe that they specifically can do deception. 0.99

00:36:39.000 So, they do it until they have the upper hand. 0.99

00:36:42.000 I think everybody's probably seen in the UK how different it is.

00:36:47.000 I went to the UK in 2018 or 19 to speak at a conference, and it was just, it's like Londonistan. 1.00

00:36:54.000 It's Islam. 0.99

00:36:55.000 Okay. 1.00

00:36:56.000 That's by design.

00:36:57.000 It's not accidental.

00:36:58.000 And the evil socialist leadership, the Fabian Socialists, Kier Starmer is a Fabian Socialist, and the people before him that ran the country all the way back to Blair, right? 0.85

00:37:06.000 They believe that no, Islam is the great ally.

00:37:08.000 It's the great friend. 0.87

00:37:10.000 And they intentionally opened it up to change.

00:37:14.000 The demographics and the country by design.

00:37:16.000 And they had said, by the way, 100 years earlier that the elites of the UK would do that.

00:37:20.000 They said they would do that. 0.99

00:37:21.000 Bertrand Russell was saying, we'll change Europe and the UK with Islam 100 years before people were doing it today. 1.00

00:37:27.000 So this is not a new thing. 1.00

00:37:29.000 And if you think about it, well, demographic warfare is not new, it's ancient, right?

00:37:35.000 And that's kind of what this is.

00:37:37.000 But to get back to Islam and Sneeko, so yeah, I think that people are being, because people in America don't know the history and the religion.

00:37:47.000 Of Islam, they think that because there's these statements that Jesus is a prophet or Mary's a virgin, that's much closer to what, you know, Judaism or something says.

00:37:58.000 But again, it's not. 0.72

00:38:01.000 It's completely opposite of what Jesus says.

00:38:03.000 They have, well, they believe that if you believe in the Trinity, you're an idolater. 0.93

00:38:11.000 And eventually they do have the right to kill you if it's the type of Islamic regime that's like a Sunni. 0.94

00:38:20.000 Now, I'm not pro Shia or anything like that, but historically, Shias have had a tendency to be a little more amenable to Christians because this gets really hairy. 0.99

00:38:30.000 But Shia Islam is Neoplatonism. 1.00

00:38:33.000 Define kind of the fields for us of who we're talking about. 1.00

00:38:35.000 What nations typically would you think of as being dominant?

00:38:38.000 Iran is Shia, and that's the branch of Islam that is ruled by mullahs and they believe in a kind of a lineal descent that has to be from Muhammad, from the different.

00:38:50.000 That's really the divide is tracking the descendants.

00:38:54.000 And who really had the real faith and passed it on.

00:38:58.000 And they link it definitely to that. 0.62

00:39:00.000 But what's interesting about Shia Islam is that it's very influenced by Sufism and Neoplatonism.

00:39:06.000 We had a talk with one of the top Shia guys. 0.86

00:39:09.000 He's a teacher at Harvard.

00:39:10.000 His name is Dr. Khalil Andani. 0.90

00:39:12.000 And he debates the Sunnis all the time.

00:39:15.000 And one of his main arguments is that Sunni Islam is just sort of crazy because the Quran, in his view and in their view, is just another form of Neoplatonism. 0.97

00:39:26.000 So, they will be at great lengths to try to. 0.99

00:39:30.000 In other words, they're a little more.

00:39:31.000 Do you know what perennialism is?

00:39:35.000 Are you familiar with that idea?

00:39:37.000 For the audience, I think I understand it, but it's one of those terms where I'm like, I could be off.

00:39:40.000 I could think it means pizza and it doesn't.

00:39:43.000 So let's make sure.

00:39:44.000 Perennialism.

00:39:45.000 Pepperoni perennialism.

00:39:45.000 Yeah.

00:39:47.000 So basically, it's the idea that it's not exactly like what Masons would say, but it's the idea that there is a skeletal structure of all the world religions that's something akin to neoplatonism.

00:39:59.000 Platonism, like that's a superstructure.

00:40:01.000 And then the world religions are kind of like skeletal, like outfits that the superstructure masks itself under, if that makes sense. 0.88

00:40:10.000 And so the Shia Islam has that type of a view. 1.00

00:40:13.000 Now, it's an insane eschatological cult. 1.00

00:40:16.000 Yes.

00:40:17.000 So I'm not defending it.

00:40:18.000 I'm saying that there are situations.

00:40:20.000 That's the 12th Imam stuff you get told about.

00:40:22.000 The hidden Imam.

00:40:22.000 It's like some mystical hidden dude.

00:40:24.000 The apocalyptic kind of component through their eschatology is like that's one thing that they don't, that they're not lying about when they tell you that on Fox News.

00:40:31.000 That is true.

00:40:32.000 That's true.

00:40:32.000 Now, how it kind of Plays out and manifests, it's different.

00:40:35.000 Maybe they overplay that hand a little bit.

00:40:37.000 But there is that kernel of truth there.

00:40:39.000 Right. 0.78

00:40:39.000 And for example, in Syria, Assad was an Alawite, which is a sect that is very similar to what we're talking about with Shia. 0.78

00:40:47.000 They have a more of a Sufi type, tolerance type of view. 0.68

00:40:52.000 And so, ironically, under Assad, Christianity fared a lot better in Syria than when they brought Jalani in, who was the hardcore Sunni. 0.91

00:40:59.000 So that's Shia Islam.

00:41:03.000 But Sunni Islam, and it has a lot of different flavors and sects, is not based on some sort of descent from.

00:41:11.000 Anyone can potentially become an imam.

00:41:11.000 Islam.

00:41:13.000 And if you watch the debates that I do, most of the debates, almost all debates actually, have been with the Sunni sort of radical types like Jake, the Muslim metaphysician, Daniel Hakikachu, Muslim Lantern.

00:41:28.000 They're all sort of the Saudi Arabian style, sort of Sunni.

00:41:32.000 They're called Salafi, which means the original righteous of the first couple generations of Islam. 0.82

00:41:36.000 And they take it very seriously in that literal, we're not figurative with the Quran like the Shia are. 0.93

00:41:42.000 Like everything is like a literal sort of Jihad type of thing, yeah. 1.00

00:41:46.000 Well, and when I said like the lineage, it was like who had the truth, right?

00:41:49.000 Because there was debate over like how many there were like 20 something versions, I believe, of the Quran.

00:41:54.000 And Uthman had them burned, right? 0.89

00:41:55.000 Exactly, they all had all of them burned, and it's like this one. 0.68

00:41:57.000 And so the debate is, okay, well, what is the true Islam? 0.97

00:42:00.000 And that's where you get the different sects, and even within some, like you said, Sunni, there's different flavors of it because you have different kind of tradition.

00:42:07.000 So, the so your question, like where does Christianity fare better, uh, it kind of just depends on the flavor of Islam, for example, you have Ottoman.

00:42:16.000 Turks and sultans who probably didn't even believe the religion, but it was a very useful tool for the Ottoman Empire. 0.79

00:42:23.000 And they would absolutely persecute Christianity. 0.99

00:42:25.000 They would take the girls into slavery. 1.00

00:42:27.000 Christian ladies would be brought into sex trafficking. 1.00

00:42:31.000 Sultans would even have a harem of boys. 0.99

00:42:33.000 I mean, just terrible stuff, which isn't actually what even the Quran teaches, right? 1.00

00:42:38.000 You're not supposed to be gay. 1.00

00:42:41.000 I thought they threw them off buildings last I checked. 1.00

00:42:43.000 No?

00:42:44.000 Well, no, I'm saying the sultans would do what they wanted.

00:42:47.000 But they had a religion for the people, right? 0.64

00:42:47.000 No, no, no. 0.64

00:42:51.000 Sunni Islam.

00:42:52.000 But anyway, so, for example, the British Empire, they made an alliance with a lot of Sunnis and what are called Wahhabi eventually against the Ottomans. 0.76

00:43:08.000 And they wanted to sort of pit them off against each other. 0.97

00:43:12.000 That's why you have Saudi Arabia and all these countries in the Middle East after the Sykes Pico agreement and all that.

00:43:17.000 The British Empire sort of divided up the Middle East. 0.83

00:43:19.000 Yeah.

00:43:19.000 And we get blamed for it all the time.

00:43:21.000 The Brits are the ones that frickin' started it.

00:43:22.000 They did start it.

00:43:23.000 We had a role, don't get me wrong.

00:43:24.000 I'm just saying.

00:43:25.000 They don't really get fragged with a lot of this, and we do.

00:43:27.000 And I'm sorry, I don't mean to go off crazy stuff.

00:43:30.000 No, you're fine. 0.64

00:43:31.000 To go back to the question, so everybody's presented with this sort of false choice of, like, well, you know, if Trump's making a mistake, if the evangelicals are wrong, oh, then the Muslims must be good.

00:43:45.000 Well, yeah, it's just Orange Man bad. 0.65

00:43:48.000 So therefore, whatever opposes Orange Man must be good.

00:43:51.000 That's the false dilemma.

00:43:52.000 Right now, as I read the room, it's Israel bad. 0.91

00:43:55.000 Israel controls the United States. 0.97

00:43:57.000 So therefore, we're tied into it bad. 1.00

00:43:59.000 And we're going against the Muslims, so Muslims are good. 1.00

00:44:03.000 And people are buying this. 1.00

00:44:04.000 And it's not just like the sneako types that are saying this.

00:44:07.000 He's saying this for a reason right now.

00:44:09.000 It's part of a strategy to kind of split off Catholic and Orthodox from evangelicals, really read that as Protestants at large.

00:44:19.000 And like we needed one more reason to have a split to some degree.

00:44:23.000 I mean, it's like, come on, that's a fissure.

00:44:24.000 Just let us heal a little bit, all right?

00:44:26.000 We're working on it.

00:44:27.000 But I'm a little struck by it because.

00:44:30.000 It doesn't like on it on the surface as somebody who, and I don't have the in depth understanding that I think you and many others have on this, but I did teach a class called A Christian's Response to Islam.

00:44:40.000 I have been to Indonesia and I have preached the name of Jesus Christ in the largest Islamic country in the world, not in the cities, but in Aceh, kind of in the northern part of the island there. 1.00

00:44:52.000 So I understand what it's like to be in these places, and I've done outreach to Muslims before, and I felt that kind of really dark presence of being in a demonic. 0.99

00:45:03.000 Of culture and go, like, how can you ever think that there's an alliance that would super like evangelicals still believe way, way, way more like the fundamental things, like Jesus Christ being the Messiah? 0.98

00:45:15.000 There is no option for him not to be. 0.78

00:45:17.000 And Islam doesn't give him anything other than, well, actually, he lied to you, he's not the Messiah, he's just the prophet, right? 0.95

00:45:25.000 And he's gonna step aside one day. 0.97

00:45:27.000 And in their eschatology, it's kind of the exact opposite of Christian eschatology, depending on what flavor you subscribe to.

00:45:33.000 And then for Judaism, it's like, Jesus wasn't even afforded that. 0.78

00:45:37.000 He was actually a false Messiah.

00:45:39.000 And I understand the remarks about him being in the Talmud burning in feces. 0.66

00:45:43.000 So, how do you think these things are compatible if you just use that one example of, okay, well, how do they treat Jesus?

00:45:49.000 That's all you have to go to.

00:45:50.000 And it's like, well, how are these things compatible? 0.77

00:45:52.000 Well, what's the best explanation for Islam when you really want to know what it really is? 1.00

00:45:58.000 It's a copy and paste. 0.84

00:45:59.000 And it's a copy and paste, not just of elements of Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrian.

00:46:05.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:46:06.000 Pagan elements, Gnostic elements.

00:46:07.000 Teaching is there.

00:46:08.000 There's a great book by a guy named Gabriel Saeed Reynolds, and he's a scholar on the history of Islam and its texts.

00:46:16.000 And I forget the name of the book, but I had to use it for one of my, I read the whole thing for one of my Islamic, I think the Daniel Hikikichu debate that I did.

00:46:23.000 And basically, what he does is he takes 10 examples from the Quran about where it's just lifted from the Bible and from pseudepigrapha and from Gnostic texts, and they actually just mix up the stories.

00:46:35.000 And so it's not even consistent with the original narrative, and probably that has to do with. 0.78

00:46:39.000 Muhammad being illiterate, right? 0.87

00:46:41.000 So he was hearing things and he would just sort of create the religion or him and his buddies or whatever warlord buddies. 0.91

00:46:47.000 And so it was, there was not really a concern with consistency.

00:46:50.000 So the stories get all mixed up.

00:46:52.000 For example, you have Jesus being the Messiah.

00:46:59.000 That's a specific Hebrew term for the anointed one, right?

00:47:03.000 In Islam, they don't know what this, there's no significance for this term because he's not the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecies to be the world's Messiah.

00:47:13.000 He's just called Messiah, and there's no theological significance to it, right?

00:47:17.000 Very similar with the dietary laws or the Levitical washings.

00:47:22.000 In Christian theology, we would say, well, those are types of baptism or spiritual realities and so forth.

00:47:28.000 Paul in the New Testament says, for example, that the unclean animals and the clean animals are like pedagogical teaching advice about morals, right? 0.97

00:47:35.000 In Islam, it's just Allah just says, do that. 0.96

00:47:39.000 There's literally no significance or purpose for these things. 0.98

00:47:41.000 So you can tell, well, so this is just like a dude who's illiterate hearing stories.

00:47:47.000 Crafting a religion, and he doesn't even know the context.

00:47:50.000 And there's so many examples of this, it gets crazy.

00:47:51.000 Like, they think that the Ark of the Covenant was a box that would fly.

00:47:59.000 Really?

00:48:00.000 And that it had moons.

00:48:00.000 Yeah.

00:48:01.000 I knew the stone that ascended, and basically the prophet said, No, stay here.

00:48:05.000 Well, it's like you could tell.

00:48:09.000 I didn't know there was a box that flew.

00:48:10.000 No, so the Ark of the Covenant has wings because of the seraphim.

00:48:13.000 And so Muhammad thought it was a flying box because of the wings.

00:48:18.000 Maybe he saw into the future and it's really a drone.

00:48:20.000 I don't know.

00:48:22.000 The drone of the covenant.

00:48:23.000 Well, here's the thing. 0.99

00:48:24.000 Also, when Jesus comes back, he destroys all pigs. 0.99

00:48:27.000 Well, but pigs are amazing. 1.00

00:48:29.000 They turn garbage into bacon. 1.00

00:48:31.000 Exactly.

00:48:32.000 I mean, why would we do that?

00:48:34.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:48:34.000 I know that Jews don't like pigs either because of the dietary laws and everything else like that. 0.96

00:48:38.000 But I know that we believe that those were kind of taken care of.

00:48:41.000 So I was on with a guy who does a lot of. 1.00

00:48:42.000 You're really missing out, Jews. 1.00

00:48:43.000 Like, you need to read the New Testament. 1.00

00:48:45.000 Life gets tastier. 1.00

00:48:48.000 I was on with a guy who does a lot of Muslim expose type stuff. 1.00

00:48:53.000 And he was pointing out that I think this is in the hadiths that when. 0.98

00:48:57.000 It's a strong hadith, meaning that Sunnis have to accept it. 0.99

00:49:00.000 That when Muhammad comes back, Jesus will come back and destroy all the pigs. 0.99

00:49:04.000 And my thought when I first heard this, I was like, well, surely that means something spiritual, right? 0.99

00:49:09.000 Like he's going to spiritually kill the goats, right? 0.99

00:49:12.000 The people to his left hand, the pigs. 1.00

00:49:13.000 Right, right, right. 1.00

00:49:14.000 And it's like, no, it's the pigs. 0.99

00:49:16.000 Like literally the pigs. 0.99

00:49:17.000 Like literally. 1.00

00:49:18.000 Job number one kill all the pigs. 1.00

00:49:20.000 Kill all pigs, right? 1.00

00:49:21.000 Job number two, we'll figure that out when we get there, but let's just get past the pigs first, okay? 1.00

00:49:26.000 Also, by the way.

00:49:27.000 Not for like a barbecue purpose either, but like just to get rid of them.

00:49:29.000 They're just bad, right?

00:49:31.000 And also, Satan can apparently fart.

00:49:35.000 In the hadiths.

00:49:36.000 That's true.

00:49:37.000 Really?

00:49:37.000 Yes.

00:49:39.000 And so this is.

00:49:39.000 Wait, wait.

00:49:41.000 Yes.

00:49:42.000 I'm thinking, okay, he's a spiritual being.

00:49:43.000 He doesn't have a body.

00:49:46.000 Yeah, a body.

00:49:47.000 But no, you could still rip one, apparently.

00:49:49.000 And if he does, that will distract you from the call to prayer.

00:49:53.000 So.

00:49:54.000 What?

00:49:55.000 Yes.

00:49:56.000 Hold on.

00:49:57.000 I don't know, Jay.

00:49:58.000 So I do need this.

00:49:59.000 I'm being serious.

00:50:00.000 This is in the hadiths.

00:50:01.000 So this is a strong hadith or the other one?

00:50:04.000 If I recall, it's a strong one, yeah.

00:50:05.000 Okay.

00:50:06.000 Satan can break wind and distract you from prayer.

00:50:09.000 To distract you from prayer.

00:50:11.000 Is it because you'll look around and go, who farted?

00:50:13.000 Probably.

00:50:15.000 Come on, guys.

00:50:15.000 I know we're all bowing down and everybody's in a really tough to hold it in position, but.

00:50:20.000 And think about it. 0.72

00:50:21.000 So, like, Muhammad's sitting around with the warlords. 0.72

00:50:23.000 He's sitting around with the warlords.

00:50:25.000 Somebody rips one.

00:50:26.000 That must be Satan.

00:50:27.000 That's a hadith right there.

00:50:28.000 Yeah.

00:50:29.000 That's a crucial hadith right there.

00:50:30.000 You know what it was?

00:50:31.000 It was the guy that did it not taking responsibility.

00:50:34.000 He was a.

00:50:35.000 Because it really reeked and it really screwed up the prayer meeting.

00:50:38.000 And he's like, it wasn't me, Carl.

00:50:40.000 Okay.

00:50:40.000 This is Satan.

00:50:41.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:50:42.000 This is Arabic SBD.

00:50:44.000 Oh, my gosh.

00:50:45.000 Oh, my gosh.

00:50:46.000 Okay.

00:50:47.000 I'm not joking.

00:50:48.000 This is true. 0.97

00:50:49.000 And this shows you how silly this is. 0.95

00:50:50.000 This is real. 1.00

00:50:51.000 And so, you know, that's the thing about this because Islam, and, you know, people obviously walk on eggshells when you're talking about it, but I think it's fair to be critical where it's necessary.

00:51:03.000 Like I said, I'm critical of President Trump when he does things that I think are bad for the country, bad for the world in general, like in our place in it.

00:51:12.000 It doesn't mean, you know, doing what Europe wants us to do.

00:51:15.000 Don't get me wrong.

00:51:15.000 Yeah.

00:51:16.000 I love when he pisses off Europe.

00:51:18.000 I'm like, good, those pricks need to be put back in their place.

00:51:20.000 But I do think you need to be able to describe what actually is Islam, what actually is Catholicism.

00:51:26.000 You've had your issues with the Pope.

00:51:28.000 We talked about that.

00:51:29.000 You've had your issues with the structure of Catholicism.

00:51:33.000 I think you've debated Trent Horne or you've talked to him.

00:51:35.000 We did the debate, yes.

00:51:36.000 Six years ago.

00:51:37.000 Okay.

00:51:37.000 Yeah.

00:51:37.000 It's been a little while.

00:51:39.000 And it's totally fine to be critical. 0.91

00:51:41.000 You've been critical of other Orthodox brothers if you have a disagreement. 1.00

00:51:44.000 Like, it's fine to have these things.

00:51:45.000 But for some reason, you can't talk about the realities of Islam as a Christian or anybody else.

00:51:50.000 It's one of those protections.

00:51:52.000 And I don't think that's, I think it's very bad for us.

00:51:56.000 And I think it's very bad, and I'll tie this together. 0.93

00:51:59.000 I think it's very bad to say it's a psyop because they don't want you to look at how bad the Jews are. 0.61

00:52:04.000 Because there's a lot of people out there saying, okay, they're going back to their Islam trope because they want to distract you. 1.00

00:52:10.000 Maybe somebody's doing that fine.

00:52:12.000 Like there's a 5%, but this has been a problem for a very long time.

00:52:15.000 These worldviews are not compatible. 0.80

00:52:17.000 These cultures really are not compatible.

00:52:20.000 Like, we're very, very different. 0.98

00:52:21.000 And for you to start to think that you have more in common with Islam than you do with Protestants as a Catholic or an Orthodox is a huge problem for us because that will divide us in ways that they absolutely want. 1.00

00:52:35.000 Like, this is part of their strategy. 1.00

00:52:36.000 You talked about it 100 years prior on kind of the using, you know, it's funny.

00:52:41.000 I think back to Braveheart, you know, if we can't get them out, we'll breed them out, the proctor.

00:52:46.000 No, that's right.

00:52:47.000 Right.

00:52:47.000 It's that same kind of mentality.

00:52:49.000 And I remember watching, I think it was called, it's either called Epicenter or something similar to that.

00:52:54.000 I think Joel C. Rosenberg did it.

00:52:55.000 I think this was him.

00:52:56.000 I watched a number of videos at the time back in like 2007, 2008.

00:53:00.000 And he did a video about the population and needing the replacement population level of being 2.1 or 2.2, whatever it was, and saying how Germany at this rate would be a predominantly Muslim country by 2050.

00:53:14.000 And this was back in 2007 or 8 that I was watching this stuff and seeing like, oh my gosh, like this is a real, real problem.

00:53:19.000 But I think people right now would say Jews are bad, therefore don't believe them that this is a problem.

00:53:27.000 And we're really kind of, I mean, I want your opinion on this. 1.00

00:53:29.000 I really feel like we're sleepwalking into a really massive issue with Islam like the UK is facing. 1.00

00:53:35.000 And it's all because, well, Jews must be bad. 1.00

00:53:37.000 So therefore, maybe these guys really aren't that bad. 1.00

00:53:41.000 Well, one of the things I took issue with was some of the commentators that you had on the screen there, like Sneeko and others, was over this issue of who was actually the largest supporter of illegal immigration in the last several years.

00:53:56.000 And a lot of people pointed to the Jewish organization Hi Us, but they were like minimal, they were like 5%.

00:54:02.000 The biggest was Catholic charities by like massive percentage, like 80% massive.

00:54:08.000 How did they support Catholic charities?

00:54:11.000 Everything from money to sanctuary cities to human trafficking.

00:54:15.000 All of that is involved in the way that the Roman Catholic Church in America has facilitated it.

00:54:20.000 And by the way, the papacy and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops openly say, open your borders.

00:54:26.000 I mean, all the way back to Francis, they've been saying, we should open our borders.

00:54:32.000 France should not have borders.

00:54:35.000 UK, all of Europe should not have borders.

00:54:37.000 I mean, they openly say this consistently.

00:54:40.000 And then the Roman Catholics on Twitter and everything will be like, oh, yeah, how dare you go against the Pope? 1.00

00:54:45.000 I'm like, dude, the Pope is destroying Europe. 0.91

00:54:46.000 What are you talking about?

00:54:47.000 What is their argument?

00:54:48.000 Like, steal me in their position, the people that would defend the Pope's or defend the Pope's.

00:54:52.000 They would either say that it's a political position, so it's not theologically binding, something like that.

00:54:58.000 I hear that so often.

00:55:00.000 I'm like, okay, well, then what is.

00:55:02.000 That's the point. 0.99

00:55:03.000 Like, if you're having a Pope and he can just say some stupid stuff, Well, it's not ex cathedra or what. 0.99

00:55:08.000 Okay, fine. 0.96

00:55:09.000 So it's not, I guess, binding.

00:55:12.000 So what is the real?

00:55:13.000 Like, do you think the average parishioner knows that or believes that?

00:55:17.000 It's like whatever he says as the vicar of Christ, that's the word of God.

00:55:21.000 So therefore, I have to believe and follow that.

00:55:23.000 I know there's people in Catholicism that fight over different issues.

00:55:26.000 There's different kind of flavors there too.

00:55:27.000 But it just seems like a coward's way out of defending the argument.

00:55:32.000 Yeah.

00:55:33.000 And also, you'll never get a consistent principle as to when it is and isn't binding.

00:55:38.000 Yeah.

00:55:38.000 This was the last sort of.

00:55:40.000 I'm anti Catholic.

00:55:41.000 By the way, like there's a lot of good people there.

00:55:43.000 I just don't like it when you run from what is obviously true.

00:55:47.000 That was the really frustrating part. 0.65

00:55:48.000 I had meetings with Catholics or specific Catholics.

00:55:52.000 We'd talk theology.

00:55:53.000 He was a part of our Bible study.

00:55:54.000 He was a great guy, loved him.

00:55:55.000 And he would raise questions and we would constantly talk through stuff.

00:55:59.000 But it almost always came back to, well, that wasn't like an official teaching of the church.

00:56:04.000 Yeah, whenever it doesn't work is when it's not official.

00:56:06.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:56:08.000 And I know because I used to be in that world.

00:56:09.000 I used to try to make it work.

00:56:11.000 Well, you were Catholic too, right?

00:56:12.000 You were a part of the church.

00:56:12.000 I was.

00:56:13.000 I tried to make it work, right. 0.62

00:56:14.000 And then became Orthodox.

00:56:15.000 When did you become Orthodox?

00:56:17.000 2016, 17.

00:56:18.000 Okay, somewhere now.

00:56:19.000 Yeah.

00:56:20.000 And, uh, yeah, because I remember trying to make that work and what forced the square peg into the round hole, right?

00:56:26.000 So, um, the issue though with the geopolitical side of it is that, you know, the papacy, especially since Vatican, post Vatican II, has pretty much been on board with all the globalization agendas.

00:56:39.000 And this is a thing that nobody ever talks about, which I've been highlighting.

00:56:39.000 Yeah.

00:56:42.000 There's a document in Vatican II, which all of Vatican II is binding.

00:56:46.000 Even if, by the way, something's not ex cathedra, you still have to follow, according to Roman Catholic canon law, the, Ordinary teaching, as it's called, of the papacy, even if you disagree and you think that it's not infallible, you still have to submit with docility in your conscience.

00:57:02.000 That's Calvin Canon Law teaching.

00:57:05.000 So they could disagree, but they're not supposed to publicly oppose the papacy in their system.

00:57:09.000 It's kind of like the NFL, you can't speak about the refs kind of thing.

00:57:13.000 You can be pissed off.

00:57:13.000 Is that how it is?

00:57:14.000 You can't find if you say it.

00:57:17.000 But there's a document called Gaudium et Spez, which was Vatican II's social and political statement.

00:57:24.000 Everybody focuses on the documents related to ecumenism and how Muslims and Christians and Jews worship the same God, which is all problematic.

00:57:31.000 That's no certate.

00:57:32.000 There's Lumen Gentium 16.

00:57:34.000 But there's another important document that's overlooked called Gaudium et Spez, and this has to do with the Vatican's political statement.

00:57:40.000 And it openly says we're for chain migration, open borders.

00:57:45.000 We want to get rid of self defense amongst nations.

00:57:50.000 Yes.

00:57:50.000 Really?

00:57:50.000 It's very.

00:57:51.000 Like at the nation level?

00:57:52.000 Yeah.

00:57:53.000 Really?

00:57:53.000 Yeah.

00:57:54.000 So armies are bad.

00:57:55.000 Yes.

00:57:56.000 Borders are bad.

00:57:57.000 Because this, so in other words, it's like a socialist document.

00:58:01.000 It's worse.

00:58:01.000 Like, you, I mean, at least most socialist countries actually had some borders to it.

00:58:06.000 Well, they were great at checkpoints, Jay.

00:58:08.000 I don't know if you've seen this document actually says we want to support UNESCO and United Nations.

00:58:13.000 So it's basically a United Nations style document.

00:58:15.000 Yeah.

00:58:17.000 And that, I think, is another key window into pinpointing okay, maybe prior to Vatican II, Pius XII still upheld some traditional values, but post Vatican II, they've become explicitly a sort of voice of a United Nations style view of nation states.

00:58:32.000 And that's never changed.

00:58:34.000 And in fact, each successive pope, even if we wanted to argue that, I think John Paul had a lot of problems, but a lot of times Catholics say, oh, well, he helped in the Cold War.

00:58:42.000 Okay, well, let's grant that.

00:58:44.000 Francis and Leo have gone even further with you need to open your borders up.

00:58:52.000 You can't have the death penalty.

00:58:54.000 The death penalty is anti pro life.

00:58:56.000 That's 100% contrary to all the traditional Catholic teaching about the death penalty.

00:59:00.000 So they've consistently, absolutely contradicted.

00:59:03.000 And like you said, Even if we were to grant that it's not ex cathedral, which by the way, Vatican II is ordinary universal teaching, you can't reject Vatican II.

00:59:13.000 But even if we did grant that these were all political, personal opinions, you are still supposed to follow the papal ethical teaching, even if you disagree, and that's in their canon law.

00:59:23.000 So you have to submit with docility, is the terminology.

00:59:27.000 So it makes no sense to say, and again, this is the same papacy that says we worship the same God as the Muslims, right? 0.81

00:59:36.000 So, are they finding, I mean, steal me in the argument too for me from, and I say that because I want to know the actual argument. 0.77

00:59:43.000 Like, I don't want to like straw man it from my perspective.

00:59:45.000 Like, I really want to understand, like, how are they covering this?

00:59:49.000 Is this just like, you know, Christ wouldn't have borders, wouldn't believe in borders, wouldn't like we're all God's children?

00:59:55.000 Like, a lot of the low tier argumentation is that.

00:59:59.000 I mean, if you get into like the Vatican II documents or the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, which is the successor of the Holy Office, if you get into those documents, I mean, they'll have a little more sophisticated.

01:00:08.000 Style of argumentation, but I think they'll just say something like, well, we all worship the God of Abraham, right?

01:00:14.000 Vatican II says this in Nostra Tate III and Lumen Gentium 16.

01:00:18.000 Oh, well, it's all the God of Abraham has the same lineage as Jews, Muslims, and Christians, therefore, generic theism.

01:00:29.000 But that's such a giant leap.

01:00:31.000 The New Testament is very explicit that if you don't have the Son, you don't have the Father.

01:00:37.000 And here's another mistake that I noticed having all these debates with the Catholics on this topic, not just Tim Gordon, but others in the last two years.

01:00:44.000 They're also making a leap from worship. 0.81

01:00:48.000 To mental recognition. 0.99

01:00:50.000 So, in other words, a Muslim might think I am intending to refer to the God of Abraham mentally. 0.78

01:00:57.000 But the problem is that Vatican II says they worship the same God as us in the Christian church.

01:01:02.000 Now, for us as Orthodox, we can't really divorce worship from what we do on Sundays in the liturgy, right?

01:01:09.000 That's worship.

01:01:11.000 It's not just mental recognition of a thing that I'm linguistically referring to.

01:01:16.000 And if Vatican II had said, Muslims intend to refer to the God of Abraham.

01:01:21.000 Maybe they could get away with it, but that's not what they say.

01:01:23.000 They say they love and worship the God of Abraham just like we do.

01:01:28.000 So there's an equivalence language there.

01:01:30.000 And that's what I kept hammering home to Tim Gordon on the Tim Pool debate it's an equivalence language.

01:01:34.000 It's capital G God.

01:01:36.000 It's not a lower G God.

01:01:37.000 It's intending to say that we worship the same God and it's worship.

01:01:41.000 That's not the same thing as notional mental recognition. 0.53

01:01:45.000 That's, I think, a kill shot because they don't worship God. 0.82

01:01:48.000 No, and it.

01:01:49.000 The gods that are described, I mean, obviously, the Christian God, Yahweh, like, the attributes are the same, right?

01:01:59.000 To a degree, right? 0.81

01:02:01.000 Minus Jesus, minus the triune. 0.82

01:02:02.000 Well, that's a problem.

01:02:03.000 But that's a big problem.

01:02:04.000 I mean, if you're just looking at the attributes of God, if you want to say, like, let's just focus on God and not worry about the Trinitarian aspect of it, you can't do that for Christians, I understand. 0.59

01:02:13.000 But the attributes of Allah are not the same. 0.94

01:02:16.000 Even at a fundamental level, they wouldn't even line up, and you would at least just be left with the Christian God and the Jewish God to kind of contend with. 0.92

01:02:16.000 They're not. 0.92

01:02:24.000 For example, Allah is not in time and space.

01:02:30.000 No, and he's also very capricious. 0.91

01:02:32.000 And he lies.

01:02:33.000 On the whims of the day, if you happen to.

01:02:35.000 That's why jihad is such a popular way to go because it's the only guarantee of actual making it into paradise. 0.99

01:02:40.000 I think it's called paradise. 0.98

01:02:41.000 I can't remember if it's heaven or paradise.

01:02:42.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:43.000 And that makes it much more clear for people.

01:02:46.000 Christians have a very hard time understanding why somebody would die in battle for God like that by blowing themselves up in a terrorist attack.

01:02:55.000 And it's like, well, if you understand their theology, it makes it much clearer.

01:02:58.000 Like, if that was, like, as Christians, if we believe the only way to, like, fully, like, if we fully believed in God and heaven and hell and, like, woo, hell, real bad, not like bad, like, but, like, you do everything that you can to avoid hell.

01:03:10.000 Everything.

01:03:11.000 Like, and you give everything that you have, every ounce of energy.

01:03:13.000 And if it could take, like, chopping off your own arm, you'd do it, right?

01:03:17.000 If we believed in it like that, then the only obvious answer would be to die in jihad because that's a guarantee. 0.74

01:03:22.000 Otherwise, it's like, well, I hope that I kept the pillars of Islam and I did all the things I'm Supposed to do, and also that God is in a good mood that day. 0.94

01:03:29.000 Yeah, right. 0.98

01:03:30.000 You know, like that.

01:03:31.000 No, this is a great point.

01:03:32.000 Actually, I forgot about this point too.

01:03:33.000 That's this in Western theology, they call this theological voluntarism, which is that God's actions are not really dictated by his nature, his actions are arbitrarily willed.

01:03:44.000 So, God, for example, there was a debate in the Middle Ages could God take the Virgin Mary out of heaven and damn her if he willed to?

01:03:51.000 And the reason they had this debate was whether God's actions are dictated by his nature.

01:03:56.000 And so, for example, if his nature is holy and good, well, he can't lie and go against.

01:04:00.000 His word, right?

01:04:01.000 So the answer would be no.

01:04:02.000 But because Islam is very similar to, say, a very strict Calvinist type of perspective, they would actually identify the divine nature and the divine will so God could will to be other. 0.85

01:04:14.000 If He will, if He wants. 0.94

01:04:15.000 To just damn all the saints the next day, he could. 1.00

01:04:17.000 That's voluntarism, and that is Islam. 0.98

01:04:19.000 Islam is absolutely 100%. 0.82

01:04:22.000 I mean, they're even what's called occasionalists. 1.00

01:04:24.000 They think that at every second, Sunni Islam, at every second, Allah is destroying and recreating the world. 0.84

01:04:32.000 And that's because they don't believe in secondary causes.

01:04:34.000 So you're not actually a being that's willing to do this or that.

01:04:38.000 If you were to allow secondary causes, the Muslims argued, this would detract from Allah's sovereignty.

01:04:43.000 How could there be a created cause?

01:04:45.000 Thus, Allah is the direct cause of every single event at every second. 0.74

01:04:50.000 Uh, everything so good and evil, and even towards the end of the Quran, there's an actual surah which says God is directly wills good and evil, and they don't just mean providence, they mean directly causing evil. 0.92

01:05:03.000 That's why He is also the greatest of deceivers.

01:05:07.000 Geez, I guess you get to play both sides there.

01:05:09.000 That seems like a very good strategy for Satan to employ, exactly. 0.97

01:05:16.000 Well, isn't it interesting that if all is the greatest of deceivers, it seems like maybe the God of Islam is something Jesus talked about, right? 0.99

01:05:21.000 Like He said, I mean, maybe. 1.00

01:05:23.000 The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. 1.00

01:05:24.000 He was a liar from the beginning. 1.00

01:05:25.000 A little bit.

01:05:27.000 So, have you, I'm assuming that you've studied eschatology from all three areas.

01:05:33.000 To a degree.

01:05:33.000 Yeah.

01:05:35.000 So, I came up with a Protestant, premillennial ish kind of, and I hold it very loosely because I also believe that there's a lot of room for debate, a lot of room for error.

01:05:46.000 And ultimately, it does not affect, I don't think, like how I am to live my life.

01:05:51.000 I think there's, you know, what Christ is commanding me to do in my life, that's what really dictates.

01:05:56.000 How I'm supposed to live my life.

01:05:57.000 You know, we don't spend a lot of time going because the world is going to end, therefore, you must.

01:06:01.000 It's because Christ said to do this.

01:06:03.000 Here's how he modeled it.

01:06:04.000 Here's what we're supposed to do.

01:06:06.000 But it's interesting.

01:06:07.000 And a lot of people get into the weeds of eschatology.

01:06:10.000 Eschatology is a study of the end times or talking about the end times, kind of wrapping up all of history.

01:06:15.000 And so, premillennial means like I believe that we are prior to a literal thousand year millennial kingdom.

01:06:21.000 However, you want to debate how that happens, when that happens, just know that that's roughly where I come from, but I could be swayed.

01:06:29.000 I compared it to Islam and Islamic eschatology.

01:06:34.000 And it's been a while.

01:06:34.000 I'd have to brush this off, but I think back in like 2009, I taught a specific class on this.

01:06:41.000 And it's been so long that I don't want to mess it up.

01:06:44.000 But what I saw was the exact inverse.

01:06:47.000 Yeah. 0.79

01:06:47.000 So if you laid out the characters in Christian eschatology, they would be like represented in Islamic eschatology. 0.79

01:06:57.000 But in Christian eschatology, they're described and given like, you know, either, either.

01:07:01.000 Power or descriptors that kind of tell you who they are, what they do, how they act. 0.93

01:07:06.000 And when you looked at Islam, it was the exact opposite. 1.00

01:07:10.000 What was described as good here was actually described as bad here. 1.00

01:07:15.000 Like it completely inverted the good and evil portion of it. 0.90

01:07:18.000 So going back to your point, like their Allah has a lot of the attributes of Satan. 0.90

01:07:23.000 Exactly. 0.98

01:07:24.000 Right.

01:07:25.000 It's like that's scary.

01:07:26.000 And this is, I think the false prophet in Christianity, when it talks about the false prophet, had a lot of overlap with their prophet. 0.95

01:07:34.000 Right with Muhammad.

01:07:35.000 And so it's like these descriptors, it was very eye opening for me.

01:07:38.000 I'll have to brush that off and see. 0.99

01:07:39.000 I don't know how deep I got into that, but man, it's really interesting because I'm baffled by this, but I also see that Islam has been trying to subvert, conquer, whatever you want to call it, the West for a very long time. 1.00

01:07:53.000 They've been doing it through birth rates in different places, they've been doing it through migration and other places, and then getting going. 1.00

01:07:58.000 And in this case, it seems like they're infiltrating.

01:08:02.000 I don't even think it's like infiltration of the Vatican, but it's like the Vatican seems to be playing right along with it.

01:08:08.000 In a lot of ways, based on what you've just talked about and what we're seeing. 0.95

01:08:11.000 But then trying to pit Americans who are Christians against Israel so much so that they side with Islam is just the creepiest, weirdest thing that I've seen lately. 0.99

01:08:27.000 And it all does come down to me that Jews are bad, so therefore Islam might be good. 0.94

01:08:33.000 How do we defend against that? 1.00

01:08:36.000 How do we help people get past the Jews bad part. 1.00

01:08:39.000 I mean, because you can have that conversation, and I think there's a lot of conversation to have there, like on how to deal with what we're seeing Israel do and influence in politics in the United States. 0.95

01:08:48.000 And you can have all those arguments, but how do you get past that and go, hey guys, like Islam really does want this? 0.85

01:08:55.000 They want you focused on Jews bad so that you think they're good because their goals haven't changed. 0.86

01:08:59.000 One thing that happens, and I think you alluded to this earlier, is that people that are, say, 40, 45 and under, they think, well, if Boomer news is saying something, it's not true. 0.97

01:09:14.000 Right.

01:09:14.000 And I remember.

01:09:15.000 And I understand why.

01:09:16.000 Yeah.

01:09:16.000 I get it.

01:09:16.000 Because there's a lot of lies.

01:09:17.000 A lot of lies.

01:09:18.000 And COVID really popped the lid off of all that for people that even if at that point you weren't like, oh, they're lying to me, COVID came around and you're like, maybe they were the whole time.

01:09:26.000 Exactly.

01:09:27.000 Maybe it's true.

01:09:27.000 Maybe Alex Jones is freaking right, dead coming.

01:09:29.000 Well, in the 2000s, I remember like, I came to be convinced that I didn't agree with the sort of normie, you know, Fox News style of stuff.

01:09:38.000 I mean, I was never liberal, but I was just. 0.60

01:09:40.000 Didn't believe what the Obama years did for me because there were so many lies told about Obama, and I was like, he's bad enough without having to lie about XYZ. 0.83

01:09:47.000 What do we do? 0.73

01:09:47.000 Yeah. 0.73

01:09:48.000 So I think that the natural result would then be to say, well, then maybe what they're saying about all these groups is just not true.

01:09:57.000 And I don't know if I believe that, but because Americans are not typically well educated, they're not taught this kind of stuff.

01:10:03.000 I had to go to like several years into college before I had a history of Islam class.

01:10:10.000 I never had anything about it.

01:10:12.000 I was never, you know, to Notre Dame.

01:10:13.000 Like, I mean, you think the world religions class is probably something that you'll take, and Catholicism sitting right there at the top.

01:10:20.000 There you go.

01:10:21.000 Yeah.

01:10:21.000 Nothing.

01:10:22.000 Yeah.

01:10:23.000 So I didn't know anything about it.

01:10:24.000 I did.

01:10:24.000 And in fact, I didn't know anything about the real meat and history of Islam and the Quran until starting to debate Muslims in 2017.

01:10:33.000 So that actually got me looking into it.

01:10:36.000 And I was, again, like,

Louder with Crowder - May 01, 2026

Unholy Alliance? Decoding the Islam-Christian "Friendship" with Jay Dyer

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