Jillian Michaels joins the show to discuss the state of the conservative movement, and why she thinks it s time for new, believable people. She also talks about Babe Ruth and how he s actually a man. Plus, the latest on the stock market crash.
00:03:20.000Hey, this is our last live show before the Christmas special tomorrow, which we give back, find some families, organizations in need, and spread it around.
00:03:28.000We are able to do that because of your subscriptions, because of your support.
00:03:36.000You know that I will answer for anything I say.
00:03:38.000And she actually has been supportive of some things in the past and critical.
00:03:41.000So hopefully we can have a productive conversation regarding the state of the right wing, the conservative movement right now, where people like me fit in, where people like her fit in.
00:05:44.000After this game, I won't have a home to run to.
00:05:47.000Well, you wouldn't be in this situation, Chip, if you'd have called American Financing like I've told you.
00:05:51.000They've helped thousands of Americans.
00:05:53.000They never charge any upfront or hidden fees, so you don't have to worry about any curveballs, and you need to make better decisions overall, Chip.
00:06:41.000Tomorrow, we are so excited to bring you our annual Christmas extravaganza in which Santa Crowder gives back its favorite time of year where we're able to use your generosity and your subscriptions to Mug Club Now Rumble Premium to help give back to those in our communities who really need it most and deserve it most.
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00:07:10.000We'll see you all tomorrow at 11 a.m. Eastern.
00:11:55.000And then I started watching the show, and I was like, wait a second, this isn't a, and not that the mixed race part is a problem, a mixed race gay couple making out at a at a fish taco stand, is it?
00:13:31.000They're not even going to try and appear as though they're practicing journalism whatsoever.
00:13:35.000So Vanity Fair released this 10,000-plus word piece on Donald Trump and more specifically his chief of staff, Susie Wiles.
00:13:46.000A revealing new interview with really the most powerful, powerful person in President Trump's White House beyond him, chief of staff, Susie Wiles, commenting and going there on a wide range of topics, it seems, with Vanity Fair in a new series of interviews, from the handling of the Epstein investigation to her assessment of the big names on the team.
00:14:07.000Let me get into some of the main things that I found very notable from what Chris Whipple, who works with Venetian Fair, detailed from their conversations.
00:14:14.000One is that Wiles referred to President Trump as someone having a, quote, alcoholic personality.
00:14:20.000She also talked a lot about the vice president, JD Vance, someone who I should note, you know, had this conversion that Whipple noted as well from never Trumper to a MAGA acolyte.
00:14:30.000Susie Wiles essentially said that that change, that conversion has been, quote, sort of political.
00:14:36.000And she said the vice president has been a quote conspiracy theorist for a decade.
00:14:44.000She said the article published early this morning is a disingenuously framed hit piece on me.
00:14:49.000And the finest president, White House, staff, and cabinet in history, significant context was disregarded.
00:14:54.000And much of what I and others said about the team and the president was left out of the story.
00:14:58.000I assume that after reading it, that this was done to paint an overwhelmingly chaotic and negative narrative about the president and our team.
00:15:05.000The truth is that Trump White House has already accomplished more in 11 months than any other president has accomplished in eight years, and that is due to the unmatched leadership and vision of President Trump, for whom I have been honored to work for the better part of a decade.
00:15:16.000None of this will stop our relentless pursuit of making America great again.
00:15:20.000And I know what you're saying or what you're thinking.
00:15:21.000Well, of course she has to say that because she, you know, Wiles doesn't want to lose her job, especially around the holidays.
00:15:59.000Then Trump issued pardons to almost everyone convicted in the bloody January 6th, 2021 assault on the Capitol, in which nine people ultimately died and 150 were injured.
00:16:27.000I remember early on they said five, which was false.
00:16:30.000The furthest I'd seen people go was seven, which is false.
00:16:34.000Nine just seems as though it's anyone tangentially related to.
00:16:39.000In other words, if someone happened to be in the zip code January 6th and has died since then, if you calculated all of that up, you'd get nine.
00:17:49.000If they were being honest, intellectually honest, you would go into one of the suicides that I'm sure that they counted in this on a guy who was ready to kind of settle.
00:17:55.000He didn't do anything, you know, anything bad really other than kind of do on a walking tour.
00:18:00.000But they tried to throw terrorism charges on top of it and put him away for the rest of his life.
00:18:23.000The context actually makes it clear that this was a compliment.
00:18:27.000So let me read you the context that was omitted.
00:18:30.000Some clinical psychologist that knows one million times more than I do will dispute what I'm going to say.
00:18:36.000This is, I believe, Wiles discussing this in the article saying, but high-functioning alcoholics or alcoholics in general, their personalities are exaggerated when they drink.
00:18:44.000And so I'm a little bit of an expert in big personalities.
00:20:34.000Sometimes we're sitting here and it's like, all right, just run the clip and we'll just dub it as Trump is a drunk or Johnny's watcher and let's see what happens.
00:24:53.000And people way smarter than me on that say he will.
00:24:56.000Wiles' statement appears to contradict the administration's official stance that blowing up boats is about drug interdiction, not regime change.
00:25:04.000You know, regime change might be a happy accident, but these are drug boats, which publications like Vanity Fair in the past tried to obfuscate.
00:26:47.000She said he's in the file and said so to clarify that he didn't do anything.
00:26:52.000Here's what Wiles said: Trump is in the file, and we know he's in the file, and he's not in the file doing anything awful.
00:26:59.000I told you a very long time ago, the one thing that you can be guaranteed of regarding the Epstein files is that Donald Trump is in it because he worked with authorities.
00:28:22.000Not to mention, look, let me, so you see all these claims, and now you know the truth.
00:28:26.000And I hope that you go check out the references.
00:28:28.000But this also is important to note: like, the background of somebody does matter if it is in line with the bias that you see in the reporting in their writing.
00:29:49.000Right now, maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but they certainly weren't picking a picture that would be most clearly indicative of Caroline Levitt.
00:31:57.000But I will tell you this: I'm glad to see this moment in time now where, remember, it used to always be the war over Christmas, Merry Christmas, the Cups, and Starbucks.
00:32:12.000And I'm glad that we have gotten past the point.
00:32:14.000People don't realize how bad it can get.
00:32:17.000They don't realize, some young people, how bad the woke progressive left got for years, where everything was politicized with not even a mainstream left agenda, but radical left.
00:33:13.000Where's the school place to celebrate Yule?
00:33:16.000Or the Hallmark movies, wishing everyone a merry winter solstice?
00:33:20.000How about the Diwali Festival of Lights?
00:33:22.000You never heard of the Diwali Festival of Lights, did you?
00:33:25.000Don't get me started on the Salvation Army.
00:33:27.000All this because America is a quasi-religious, anti-LGBTQ AIP oligarchy, where Christmas is thrust upon us and everyone falls for materialism each year like the good little mindless sheep they are.
00:33:41.000And they follow their shepherd, Donald Trump.
00:33:45.000And that's what Christmas is all about, you cis white male.
00:34:03.000I believe we have her on the line, Miss Jillian Michaels.
00:34:06.000Before I bring her on, I do want to sort of present to you what was the catalyst for our back and forth and why she's on the show.
00:34:13.000And I'm very glad to have her here on the show today.
00:34:16.000This is when she sat down with Donald Trump Jr., and they were discussing sort of the right, its current state, and the need to disavow certain people to which I responded.
00:34:26.000All of those people that your dad invited in-Tulsi, Kennedy, myself, inadvertently, right?
00:34:35.000All of these more Rogan, all of these more moderate people who flee the crazy on the left are alarmed if the right doesn't disavow the Nick Fuentes.
00:34:47.000And it doesn't mean, I'm not saying cancel Tucker Carlson.
00:35:16.000I'm just deeply concerned that if there's a guy who says women want to be and somebody does not say, this is not who we are as a party, this is not conservatism.
00:38:02.000He got it from a CNN clip where we were debating whether or not all of MAGA is racist, which kind of leads us into the conversation we're going to have.
00:38:16.000But you know that everyone gets smeared with the, you're a racist, you're a white nationalist.
00:38:21.000If you voted for Trump, if you're America first.
00:38:23.000And what I was trying to point out, or what I did point out, and then it got manipulated, is that, first of all, white people were one of the first races to fight to end slavery.
00:38:39.000350,000 Union soldiers died to end slavery.
00:38:46.000Slavery has existed for thousands of years.
00:38:49.000And what Wajahat may not know is Muslims, in fact, enslaved million-plus white Europeans.
00:38:58.000Every single ethnicity is a whip in the chains.
00:39:05.000I was trying to get to a place where we could establish that not all white people are bad.
00:39:10.000And my bigger concern, which I know you take umbrage with, is that if you demonize all white people in this way, it is going to lead them into the Nyquists of the world, which I know you don't think are bad.
00:40:04.000And that's where, if you want to say, take umbrage, the idea that people need to disavow someone wholesale as opposed to understanding the why so that I can present a better case as to why not.
00:40:15.000And that brings us to, I mean, I know you tweeted at me, and this seems silly.
00:40:20.000If you want to go ahead and speak, I was going to read it so I could give you the floor.
00:40:26.000You wrote that if you'd spent five minutes on Google at S. Crowder, that's my handle there because Stephen Crowder's taken, you'd see I've never claimed to be a conservative.
00:41:00.000The only thing I'll answer and give you the floor is: let me ask you plainly: you're comfortable with the claim that, quote, women want to be raped.
00:41:06.000There's no statistic, moral framework, or political philosophy, philosophy that validates that.
00:42:58.000Because I've spoken with him about it, asked him about it.
00:43:00.000And I think the idea that here's why, 50 Shades of Gray.
00:43:04.000In other words, when you look at what women, you know, in the context of that study, which is the context that he was discussing, he didn't cite the study, but I think it's pretty clear.
00:43:12.000And I need to be charitable towards him.
00:43:13.000Look, I disagree with him on so many other things.
00:44:06.000Not only, there's so many problems with this.
00:44:10.000His Groypers actually carry this out with regard to they were going after Piers Morgan's 13-year-old daughter saying they were going to rape her.
00:44:23.000But let's go back to what is it worth discussing.
00:44:25.000Saying you need to disavow person X for a very uncharitable view that most people understood and they can agree or disagree.
00:44:33.000Then you can't get to the areas where you actually disagree.
00:44:35.000For example, like global jewelry, where I disagree with him.
00:44:38.000And I was able to say, I think that Islamic immigration is a bigger threat.
00:44:41.000What I don't want to do is exactly what Pierce Morgan did in interviewing him, which drove people into the arms of Nick because he presented as far more reasonable than Pierce, or attack him or his audience, these young men, over something that's clearly out of context and not meant to be taken literally.
00:44:57.000To give you an idea, yesterday we had Cardi B's new album dropped, Cap, Circumcised Ass Pussy, because she was performing in Riyadh.
00:45:45.000I cannot tell you how much time I have spent, my brother has spent, my business partner, who's my closest friend has spent, explaining to my son that no means no.
00:45:59.000So that when he is with a young girl, just hold on, and he hears Nick Fuentes in his mind going, no, really, actually, she wants this.
00:46:06.000No, really, she wants you to beat the shit out of her.
00:47:02.000If we change one thing, right, in the context of male-female sexual dynamics, I think that it's very understandable.
00:47:08.000And I wouldn't wholesale disavow someone because my question is, do you think that blankly disavowing people, which I don't do, I disagree with views across the board.
00:47:17.000I've had communists, I've had imams who've called for my death on the show.
00:47:21.000I didn't have him back, to be clear, on the show.
00:47:22.000I was like, oh, he really wants to kill me.
00:47:30.000I will give them all the same respect.
00:47:31.000Do you think that blankly disavowing a person is better than clarifying their statements and understanding where they come from so that you can present a case as to why not?
00:47:42.000Understand the why so you can explain why not.
00:48:03.000Jillian Michaels is trying to tell, you know, is trying to cancel, I don't know, A, B, C, or D. Also didn't happen.
00:48:10.000But when you platform someone like this, first of all, disavowing, I do think is important with somebody who says things like, I mean, this is so insane.
00:50:57.000And here's the thing: whether it's Kanye West, whether it's Nala Ray, who now has a mission's work or sorry, a ministry, people who are new, I know you don't claim to be a conservative.
00:51:07.000People who are new to a fundamental worldview, who maybe don't have an understanding of it, should refrain from telling men who they should disavow or who should be permitted and who shouldn't.
00:51:18.000I think it's more productive to listen for a while before you take the pulpit.
00:51:28.000Since 2024, Jillian, I mean, that's when you said you voted for Trump, and you kind of compared him a little bit to Hitler after the election.
00:51:34.000So I wouldn't say that you're very experienced.
00:51:36.000When would I compare Trump to Hitler after the 2024 election?
00:52:33.000I don't really know which one of these is a better choice.
00:52:36.000And then in 2024, by that time, over the course of four years, I'd been paying pretty close attention and I felt that Trump was a better choice.
00:52:45.000Now, obviously, I leaned more into Kennedy, and we can get into why.
00:52:49.000And I probably would have been more for DeSantis.
00:52:54.000I think he's doing a pretty good job over there.
00:52:58.000A less divisive character, which makes it easier to defend some of these points, which, you know, maybe you think, I think DeSantis would have done a good job.
00:53:13.000Like you said, that's the quote I'm remembering where you said something about when Hitler's elected, like, yeah, he's batshit crazy, but let's just see what he's going to do.
00:53:51.000And then you said Donald Trump was a lesser of two evils.
00:53:53.000And I know that you've said you're not conservative, so that's fair.
00:53:56.000But then advising conservatives on what they need to do, I mean, that's what I would say is you want to talk about used against the right.
00:54:03.000I mean, feminism is responsible for the failures of almost all the ills that we deal with with Western civilization and the reason that young Gen Z men voted for Trump.
00:54:43.000You don't think you think women shouldn't be able to vote?
00:54:45.000I don't think that it's wrong to say that women are emasculating men.
00:54:49.000And if you were to talk about the 19th Amendment, I would ask you, why do you think the vast majority of women were against women's suffrage back then?
00:54:58.000We can get into another show on that one.
00:55:01.000No, I think it's important because that's the context because I don't want to do it.
00:55:04.000You're saying you don't think women should be able to vote.
00:55:06.000What does that have to do with anything?
00:55:19.000If women want equal rights, absolutely.
00:55:22.000There was a period of time in this country where men couldn't vote because it was a privilege, not a right, that they had to fulfill certain obligations that women didn't.
00:55:30.000For example, the draft, for example, being property owners, for example, bucket duty mandatory.
00:55:40.000Yeah, we have selective service where if I don't register for it, if an American male doesn't register for it, that's a crime.
00:55:47.000And you forego your vote, but women don't have to.
00:55:49.000So the context, the point, let me just finish the point.
00:55:52.000The point is the context of, hey, look, this is why there's a problem with the 19th Amendment.
00:55:57.000It was a very large vote buying scam early on.
00:56:00.000Now, we discuss it in full context on the show.
00:56:03.000I've created a five-point solution on who should be allowed to vote.
00:56:07.000The shorthand, the bumper sticker, women shouldn't vote, is something that I wouldn't agree with wholesale as a statement.
00:56:14.000But when people use that to then tar and feather someone's entire reputation as though their views are completely unreasonable, that's what the left does.
00:56:22.000So yes, most women wouldn't vote if we reformed voting back to the way it was throughout all of humanity.
00:56:27.000But a lot of men wouldn't vote either.
00:56:31.000Okay, well, we may need a separate show for that topic.
00:58:40.000First of all, I never told men anything.
00:58:42.000I suggested that the conservative movement say that there is no room for these ideas in it.
00:58:53.000So as for being a role model for young boys, that's not something I've ever tried to do because I think it's counterintuitive.
00:59:02.000I made quite a long video about that, actually, which is why I am hopeful that men in positions of influence send good messages to young boys.
01:00:30.000Half the country said that Charlie Kirk was a racist and a Nazi to the point where not a single vigil, memorial, could be attended without rampant vandalism and desecration.
01:00:42.000So that is the Jillian Michaels standard, right?
01:00:45.000He's not racist, and it's my standard as well.
01:00:48.000I would hope that you wouldn't want the standard of the left, of people who don't share your values, applied to you wholesale.
01:00:54.000What I would say to those people on the left is, hey, why don't you talk with Charlie?
01:00:58.000Why don't you actually find out why and see if he's a racist?
01:01:01.000They don't because they say we need to disavow all racism.
01:01:05.000And having been here a long time, done this for a long time, and yours truly has been accused of all those things as well.
01:01:10.000I think it's important to understand why if you plan or have any hope to present a case as to why not.
01:01:19.000I listened to all of the accusations that they made about Charlie and I investigated them and watched them in context.
01:01:26.000So when you're saying, oh, you know, he's got a problem with the Civil Rights Act, and then you imply it's because he doesn't want black people to have equal access or the ability to vote.
01:01:38.000And he said that very clearly and then explained what his concerns were with the Civil Rights Act and talked about how it allows men and women's sports and men and women's bathrooms.
01:02:50.000But he has been very clear that he doesn't think it should be an all-white country, but that he believes, and I disagree with him on this, that preserving racial characteristics of America should be a primary goal.
01:03:01.000So you just did what they did with Charlie Kirk.
01:03:19.000You're like, Coleman Hughes is accusing you of saying one thing here and saying another thing there, but he works for Barry Weiss, so therefore none of this is valid.
01:05:11.000So Jillian, again, I want to have the conversation in just as good faith as I can have with Nick or hopefully with people like Tucker or Candace, who I vehemently disagree with.
01:05:19.000And I think we would share some common ground on that.
01:05:21.000But the interrupting and the moving of the goalposts and then saying, well, he didn't say that, but that was the implication.
01:06:11.000I mean, you're acting very much the way the feminist left acts today in demanding that people behave in the way that you deem acceptable, making inferences based on implication rather than taking words and then abdicating accountability when the question comes back to you and moving the goalposts.
01:06:47.000And I tend to follow Victor Davis Hanson's school of thought here: is that when you mainstream somebody who has a clear agenda that I personally feel is nefarious, calling people the N-word and saying marrying somebody of another race is being a race traitor and women shouldn't vote.
01:07:09.000I don't see a need to listen to his ideas when I can consume similar ideas from people I think are good faith actors.
01:07:21.000And for example, like we can talk about Stalin.
01:08:55.000Because you said, again, wholesale blanket, this is why.
01:08:57.000Just understand where I'm coming from here.
01:08:59.000Because people will use it and they'll use it as a disqualifier.
01:09:02.000Considering that people have used those against you for different reasons, and they've used it against me for this exact reason, well, I don't think it's acting in good faith.
01:09:10.000I was on Pierce Morgan's show with Mark Lamont Hill, where we were talking about the use of that word.
01:09:15.000And I said, you know, I do find it odd when we're giving words so much power.
01:09:43.000Hitler is imbued with the power of the verb before it to hail, to venerate, to honor.
01:09:48.000And I think the hail Hitler portion is far more offensive, if we're going to consider something offensive, than merely a word used by a black rapper, even if it's repeated by a white person.
01:10:01.000In that context, is that a disqualifier?
01:10:05.000When someone's referencing the name of a song?
01:10:08.000In the context that I just used it, yeah.
01:10:10.000That's not the context that he uses it.
01:10:13.000I'm asking, is there any context because you started with someone when someone mentions the name of a song, by the way, that's there is a if you know, if we brought somebody into the room who was a person of color, I feel that they could distinguish the difference between the GGA part of the word and the ER part of the word.
01:10:34.000but it's not really a path I feel the need to go down or qualified to speak upon, but I am aware that many feel there is a difference to those two words.
01:10:46.000Having said that, I don't understand why you're fighting for this.
01:11:03.000The reason why is because you said wholesale, I'm fighting for listening.
01:11:08.000When you say anyone who uses the N-word and you use that as a disqualifier, and I hear, I go, well, I have in context as a wordsmith who writes jokes where it's relevant.
01:11:20.000I don't like any phraseology, ideology, viewpoint that says any word used makes someone, which is how you framed it, makes someone disqualify.
01:11:31.000I think that the problem is my problem.
01:12:58.000My agenda is for young boys not to end up in jail thinking like the girl really wants them to keep going or for some girl who says no to get raped.
01:13:07.000Like my agenda is for young kids to not hate people of color.
01:13:34.000well no for me as well and as someone who's been here since as someone who's been here since you know 2008 2009 and the first person demonetized de-platformed right i I think that people who say this phrase, this word, this litmus test, this perspective on this issue, which by the way is very personalized.
01:13:52.000I noticed that the disqualifiers very closely relate to yours and not those who criticize you or not even people further to the right.
01:13:59.000Anyone who says that and doesn't understand how it will be used against them and how it has fostered and created a culture of censorship is very concerning to me.
01:14:10.000And I don't want that to be influential on the conservative movement because it's antithetical to it.
01:14:15.000The idea that this word bad without context, it seems that you're missing a fundamental precept that I would say to the idea of free speech, which is context does matter over content.
01:14:27.000And we don't disqualify people for naughty words.
01:14:30.000And that's not why I understand you're disqualifying Nick, but it would disqualify me.
01:15:02.000What I do recommend is that if the right would like to maintain power, they disavow, make the statement, we don't believe in these more radical ideas, like women want to be raped, or if you marry someone of a different race, you're a race traitor.
01:15:58.000Again, this is from we're moving the goalpost again.
01:16:00.000Your statement that anyone who uses the N-word, anyone who says women should be raped.
01:16:05.000And what I am telling you is my perspective is fundamentally different.
01:16:09.000Here's what I would say is productive.
01:16:11.000Anyone who actually believes in racial superiority, for example, or supporting extermination, anybody, but I'm talking about what you just said, your language.
01:16:20.000And I'm telling you why that's not going to resonate very well with I'm going to finish my phrase as though I'm able to.
01:16:26.000Any young man who's had to play this game for a long time where they get canceled, their job is lost because they've used a word where in context should not be a disqualifier.
01:16:35.000Or they've expressed an opinion where in context should not be a disqualifier.
01:17:49.000Well, I think establishing the terms in a foundational worldview is important if you're going to be advising other people on who should be allowed to discuss things at the table.
01:17:57.000I don't think it's a rabbit hole when someone states in the affirmative preemptively anyone who does X. I'm glad you clarified.
01:18:33.000You know, I have listened to you on quite a few different topics.
01:18:38.000So, I mean, I guess, yeah, I kind of would want to hear you say as a guy who has significant influence that I personally have listened to you.
01:18:45.000Like, yeah, Jill, these are bad ideas.
01:18:51.000We can sit here and talk about like why you think he does and why I don't think so.
01:18:55.000But it would just be awesome, in my opinion, for someone like yourself, even though I didn't specifically ask you to do so, to say, I don't think that we should, you know, call people who marry someone of a different color, a race trader.
01:19:26.000I didn't call you any of those things.
01:19:29.000No, my dispute is with the idea that people should ever disavow people and not listen wholesale and preemptively set a bunch of qualifiers that sound a whole lot like Chuck Schumer's.
01:19:45.000Disavowing people wholesale, especially based on some what I would say are misleading or tangential or out of context quotes is not good because that's the game the left plays.
01:19:56.000And I think that we need to sidestep that game completely.
01:20:24.000And if we had a good faith conversation like I had with Matt Walsh, I feel confident that we could agree to disagree at the end without, you know, wishing harm upon one another.
01:20:38.000You know, or thinking significantly less of each other.
01:21:34.000So maybe you and I actually have the same agenda and just different ideas on how to get there.
01:21:40.000And you may not want my vote and you may not want me in this tent of yours, but the reality is that to get the better guy in the oval, like we're going to have to find, like, you're going to have to accept my vote.
01:22:46.000I think you are very much to the right on some issues, as I understand it, like on generally, compared to most of the left on freedom of speech.
01:22:53.000I think you're very much to the right.
01:22:55.000The left would consider you a Nazi as it relates to transing children, unless I'm mistaken.
01:23:04.000And I think that you are, I think you're very, very, not even moderate, very far left when we find ourselves at the point in the country where there would be nothing controversial about a conservative American saying, well, not only am I against same-sex marriage, but the foundational restructuring of the family where kids can be brought into a family or the world through surrogacy without a father or without a mother.
01:23:24.000I think that a nuclear family and complementarianism is foundational.
01:23:27.000And I think a view that doesn't believe that or adhere to that, I think is actually pretty historically radically left.
01:23:35.000So I think you're very far right for the left on some issues and very far left.
01:23:39.000And honestly, I would say foundationally, that is more of an issue as far as where we disagree, the chasm between where I definitely disagree, to be clear, with Nick Fuentes on global jewelry versus the threat of Islam.
01:23:51.000So I wouldn't classify you as a moderate or a conservative.
01:23:54.000I actually don't disagree with you, though, about the importance of a father.
01:24:11.000I mean, I know I thought that same thing.
01:24:14.000I firmly believe that fathers are, in fact, listen, just to preface this, not that I don't know if this is relevant or not, or we need to go down this path, but I was always planning on adopting.
01:24:26.000And I figured, look, if I can give a kid that is in the developed world a path to citizenship, a shot at a life, do I wish this kid had all the, you know, a wonderful loving father?
01:24:41.000But the reality is there are millions of these kids that need homes.
01:24:44.000So on the continuum of disaster, never getting out of Haiti, having your organs harvested, being sold into the sex trade versus like living with a lesbian who can give you a really good life and a shot at, you know, I'm going to go with that.
01:24:59.000Now I have wonderful, loving men in my life that I also know can provide a strong role model for my kids.
01:25:07.000Now, my ex wanted to have her own kid.
01:25:10.000And Stephen, I, first of all, I can't tell somebody not to do that.
01:25:14.000And second of all, now that I have my son, I'm not sorry that she did.
01:25:19.000And this is a conversation that he and I have together all the time because I wanted him to have a father so much so, and this is deeply personal, but I'm trying to show you that I don't disagree with you.
01:25:29.000But in this continuum of perfect world versus where we are now, because this is kind of the reality of life.
01:25:50.000Probably one of the top reasons that we are no longer together.
01:25:53.000Now, having said that, I see the pain my son goes through, not having a father figure, which is why, by the way, I'm so deeply alarmed by characters like Nick Fuentes, because I see the grasping.
01:26:39.000Well, I would say, and I agree with you.
01:26:40.000Of course, I think there are better role models out there for young men.
01:26:44.000I completely agree, namely men who, you know, obviously are married and raising families.
01:26:48.000That was one of the questions that we brought up.
01:26:51.000But I would say that screaming platitudes and issuing disqualifiers is going to drive more young men towards not just people like Nick Fuentes, but someone who I know you disagree with as well, people like Andrew Tate, where when people are presented with something that is less than authentic or a lie, which has been, by the way, largely presented through the 1960s to today, a feminist worldview, men will be driven into someone who at least is speaking some truth.
01:27:17.000For example, the difference between male and female sexual dynamics.
01:27:19.000So those platitudes, the not these words, not these views, will drive, and I've seen it happen, will drive people into the arms of those you fear most.
01:27:29.000Listening and presenting a better case as to why not and applying it across the board, whether it's a communist or whether it's far right, is in my opinion, and I've seen this for a very long time, a better approach.
01:27:42.000I don't think you did present a better case as to why not, though.
01:28:23.000I'm trying to say when you, when you, when you put forward a guy who I, I think suggested it was okay to sexualize a teenage boy as a representation for the gay community.
01:28:36.000Like, I don't know that that's good faith acting, but okay.
01:28:40.000Do you mean Milo or talking with Milo?
01:28:50.000And I have, you know, a few things that have kind of freaked me out a little bit with regard to like how much I think he does not like them.
01:28:56.000You know, like complimenting elements of Maduro's regime because of how he squashed LGBTQ rights.
01:29:08.000I've listened to his, you know, different shows on with one with Chris Moritz, I thought was brilliant about how TransInc, all the money that's going into transing kids.
01:29:17.000I asked Chris Moritz to come and talk with me.
01:29:20.000I mean, I've listened to his shows on Wikipedia and how the CIA is behind it.
01:29:24.000I don't, and I've never called for him to be canceled.
01:29:28.000You're asking me personally if I belong there.
01:29:30.000Probably not, you know, given the things that we've just talked about.
01:29:56.000And I don't know if you're familiar with that.
01:29:57.000That was something that was going on, which is a big reason for the rebellion, kind of the catalyst for a lot of Gen Z emails becoming conservative.
01:30:04.000This was an example of feminists creating really, really bad video games, right?
01:30:09.000And injecting woke ideology into video games.
01:30:11.000And it turns out they were sleeping with some prominent reviewers.
01:30:14.000And there was kind of an expelling of cis straight white males.
01:30:17.000So Milo Yiannopoulos back then was reporting on this undercovered topic by the mainstream media.
01:30:24.000That's how he sort of came to prominence.
01:30:25.000So I had him on, gosh, 2014, 2015 discussing that.
01:31:38.000And that's what I'm talking about, his interviewing techniques.
01:31:40.000I didn't see him apply that to Fuentes.
01:31:43.000And I saw Fuentes come out of that winning off of a guy with a massive platform, and Fuentes gets bigger and his messages are mainstreamed again.
01:31:54.000Then he goes on Piers and he loses there and he plays Piers like a fiddle.
01:32:10.000I do not want you to, I'm not trying to insult you here.
01:32:14.000I think he comes out of your interview and I think he gains a bunch of your followers.
01:32:20.000Now, when I watched him bring up Stalin, and this is something Victor Davis Hansen talks about when he talks about Buckley, because the truth of the matter is, when I look at who could effectively, really do a good job getting to the root of what this kid really believes and what he really thinks, it's going to take an extremely erudite and sharp, arguably historian, economist, a Victor Davis-Hansen kind of character who doesn't even know that he's up to the task, has said, you know,
01:32:50.000when I watch William F. Buckley take on characters like this, he goes, I don't even know if I could do it because if you make one mistake, the stakes are too high.
01:33:01.000And God forbid, I make a mistake in a moment.
01:33:05.000I personally don't want to see those messages grow.
01:33:10.000I happen to know a little bit about how to push back on that.
01:33:13.000But the reality is, let's say I didn't.
01:33:15.000Let's say I didn't know about the Mai G restoration in Japan to hold up an alternative path to industrialization or like the great spurt theory in Russia that the economy is actually growing better under the czar than the Bolsheviks.
01:33:28.000Like you just sit there looking like a dumbass as this kid's like, I didn't really mean it.
01:33:32.000I really just appreciate industrialization.
01:33:35.000If you don't know this stuff, you're going to get, you're going to get knocked the fuck out.
01:33:40.000And luckily, I knew a little bit of it.
01:33:42.000It sounds like you know it, so I think you should take a crack at it.
01:33:48.000But here's the thing: but if everyone approaches that, right, and then they sort of cloak it under, yeah, but I won't do it because I'm not good enough.
01:34:14.000So I would ask you since the end point, we started off with saying, you know, you admire Stalin, played the clip.
01:34:19.000So I would ask you, since the end point is very similar to where Stalin would have us reach, just swap atheism for Catholicism or Christianity.
01:34:27.000Would you be able to name or is there any one thing that you think America concretely should copy about Stalin's rule and/or methods to get there?
01:34:38.000Tell me how that's not a fair question as opposed to disqualifier.
01:35:29.000My question about the Second Amendment, and this was one that was concerning where we actually found disagreement.
01:35:33.000And frankly, some of his own fans weren't really thrilled with his answer.
01:35:38.000I said, what I heard there, meaning his clip and in watching you is concerning because what I see communicated is your ideal utopia.
01:35:47.000To use the word would involve a much stronger state with much more executive power.
01:35:52.000And I agree, by the way, on the idea of executive authority being appropriate, but the end game would be a much stronger state and much softer civilian arms, softer Second Amendment rights.
01:36:03.000It sounds a lot to me like the left saying, well, the Second Amendment was for muskets and we can just revise it.
01:36:36.000What I would have done is push him because when he's like, oh, I don't really admire him, I would have cross-examined him on that piece because there's a way to say, I find it fascinating the way the country industrialized without saying you're an admirer.
01:36:47.000But at the same time, you asked him, can you do this without starving people and enslaving them?
01:37:14.000And since I said, I have to take your answers here at face value, you're not doing what Coleman Hughes, by the way, rightfully sometimes characterizes a softening of viewpoint, which is why I haven't done it today.
01:37:31.000Let me figure out which part of this I'm addressing.
01:37:33.000So first of all, I don't feel like you cross-examined him on that position, though, because you asked him, can it be done without these tactics?
01:37:43.000So instead of, and there are many historians and economists that have laid this out.
01:37:49.000And this is where it's like, okay, so if you really care about industrialization, you probably would have taken the time to look into the work of this guy, that guy, this guy, that guy, the great spurt theory, all of the things I've already kind of mentioned.
01:38:03.000So, I probably would have cross-examined him more aggressively on that point.
01:38:07.000He has said, I'll kill, rape, and die for Nick.
01:39:50.000I would interview Nick at Knight Hitler to try and prevent him from being Hitler.
01:39:54.000I can't know if it's actual Hitler or Donald Trump, who they say is Hitler, or me, who they say is Hitler, or you, who the trans community says is Hitler, unless I said and asked.
01:40:04.000So why, and this is real, is why don't you actually cross-examine him and ask these questions?
01:41:04.000My only thought on that, honestly, was maybe the one moment that he actually made a point I thought was interesting.
01:41:11.000So I had just yesterday interviewed Carl Higbee about that, about the Second Amendment and, you know, what were his thoughts and pushing like, oh, well, you know, the founding fathers didn't have assault rifles.
01:41:23.000And Higbee took me all the way to the end of if the government has F-16s, we need an F-16.
01:41:30.000And I thought it was all very, very interesting.
01:41:33.000But Fuentes brought up, he brought up a good point where he said, they'll get you.
01:41:52.000That the Second Amendment, obviously, for me is foundational.
01:41:55.000But they can de-platform you and debank you.
01:41:58.000So there need to be some, I would say, additional protections in the new world, not stripping of rights and protections, but adding because of people being debanked and country where I was raised, Canada.
01:42:07.000I mean, it's weird that you have a totalitarian hellhole that's also filled with pussies, but that's how I would describe Canada.
01:42:33.000This is kind of our continuum conversation of the perfect family, right?
01:42:37.000If there was a perfect world where nobody had a gun, then I wouldn't see a need for one.
01:42:43.000The reality, you know, like if everybody was a good guy and nobody robbed people and raped people and murdered people, sure, but that's not the world we live in.
01:43:11.000And when bad guys have guns, good guys cannot defend themselves.
01:43:16.000And whenever I've lived, you know, when you look at Brown, for example, the part that makes me so pissed is it's a weapon-free zone that's completely open to the public.
01:43:46.000So I have a feeling that, and you know what Higbee said to me yesterday?
01:43:50.000And I won't do nearly as good of a job recounting this, but he listed all of these different incidents where citizens who are carrying took down bad guys that were killing people.
01:44:04.000So listen, that's where I personally stand on it.
01:44:08.000I do, I would like stronger background checks.
01:44:10.000And maybe you'll dismantle me on this one.
01:44:12.000Higby's answer was I have no problem with that as long as you have the same prerequisites for voting.
01:44:21.000So, you know, if someone's got a history of being violent or crazy, I wouldn't like to see them get a gun.
01:44:26.000Yeah, but they're already not allowed to.
01:44:27.000But I don't want to go after that because it sounds like we agree pragmatically.
01:44:31.000But you did say you don't want to because there's no moral framework as far as interviewing certain people.
01:44:37.000What I am interested in knowing is what is your moral framework on the Second Amendment?
01:44:41.000Sure, the real world is bad guys have guns.
01:44:44.000Listen, if this kid didn't say women want to be raped and they want the shit beat out of them, of course, listen, if I didn't feel I have a mixed race family.
01:45:58.000I mean, you know, 94% of mass shootings take place in gun-free zones, half a million to three million defensive uses of firearms.
01:46:04.000You were said in the anecdotal, and those are very powerful, but statistically, it's overwhelming, far more defensive uses than offensive uses.
01:46:13.000I mean, gun ownership correlates with lower crime, but that's not the basis of my opinion on the Second Amendment, coming from a country where you don't have the right to defend yourself.
01:46:22.000It's a God, the moral framework for me is the God-given right to self-preservation.
01:46:27.000And anyone who speaks out against it, even if no bad guys have guns, God should damn straight to the pit of hell because preventing anyone, woman, disabled, younger, smaller, weaker person from preventing themselves.
01:46:50.000What I mean by bad guys not, if bad guys didn't have guns, to take it a step further, it would be there'd be no need for self-preservation.
01:46:57.000So I'm in full agreement with you on this one.
01:47:16.000If you learn something, like you just said from Nick on the idea that there need to be additional protections, could there be some other things that maybe you would learn or gain perspective on by talking or listening to him?
01:47:30.000Stephen, I think in our cost-benefit analysis of illustrating or illuminating, forgive me, a blind spot versus elevating what I believe to be our terrifying ideas, I'm going with still no.
01:47:51.000And all I'm going to tell you is that there are people who are far better at this than me.
01:47:56.000I'm just truthfully a concerned mom and a concerned citizen with regard to why I engage in these conversations, not Fuentes.
01:48:06.000When you got guys like Charlie Kirk and guys like Ben Shapiro and guys like Victor Davis Hansen that suggests no good comes of it, I think I'm stronger than them in certain areas.
01:48:19.000I could probably talk to you about big pharma more effectively than they could.
01:48:45.000What if, and by the way, I believe I sat on some panels with Victor Davis Hansen back when I was at PJ TV in 2009 because he wrote for PJ Media.
01:48:54.000Obviously, Ben Shapiro has been on the show a whole lot.
01:48:56.000And this is something that I see, and this is where I diverge from a lot of them.
01:49:00.000They have a complete, everyone you've mentioned has a very large blind spot as to why this generation, meaning the Gen Z generation, you know, I'm right in the middle millennial, why they are so upset about the emasculization of men.
01:49:14.000And a big part of it is the nuclear family, why they are rejecting modern gender theory and why there's so much pushback.
01:49:22.000So that's something that I think is a blind spot for the entire right-wing conservative movement.
01:49:28.000And I think that you even saying, for example, Ben Shapiro, not understanding that people have rejected him resoundingly, and not necessarily that I agree with it.
01:49:50.000It's my understanding that people have The people who have turned on Ben Shapiro is over Israel, though.
01:49:59.000And I listen, you could again, the Gaza conversation, I've said very clearly, I am not the person who can take this one on, nor do I want to.
01:50:12.000Here's what I want: I want, I take the Trump, the Trump approach here.
01:50:16.000All I know is I want people to stop dying.
01:51:07.000And I think there's the quote about the man who enters the arena.
01:51:10.000And I think at some point, all the people, all the men, women, Zs who don't enter into the arena are less productive.
01:51:20.000And I think you should enter into the arena rather than telling people that they shouldn't enter the arena and have disqualifiers in gatekeeping.
01:51:41.000But Ben Shapiro will platform other people who are much further to the left, who have pushed against worldviews that are far more antithetical to what he and I believe, or at least espouse we hold dear.
01:51:53.000Just like I know you said, I think that you said you don't care at all about, and I don't want to mischaracterize, but the Browning of America.
01:52:19.000And if everybody abdicates, then nobody actually has a conversation of ideas.
01:52:22.000And in my experience, which is more than anyone in this movement at this point in time, I've been here longest, is more corrosive in the long run.
01:52:29.000Let's take this example to go to that: the Browning of America.
01:52:33.000They don't want their neighborhood to look like little Bangladesh.
01:52:36.000The culture issues are where the old conservative guard are losing, and they're going to continue to lose.
01:52:43.000So I think our concern is from two different sides there.
01:52:46.000Okay, so first thing, with regard to, I never said no one should talk to Fuentes.
01:52:52.000I said, I wish that Tucker had done it more effectively, like he did with Ted Cruz.
01:52:57.000I was asked by Marissa Street, why wasn't I upset about Patrick Bed David's interview?
01:53:02.000And I thought Patrick Bed David, in his way, he's not aggressive at all ever.
01:53:07.000But I thought that Patrick Bed David, in his way, did effectively dismantle his ideas.
01:53:12.000And, you know, we could point, I could give you a specific when Patrick Bed David addressed his concerns of organized Fuentes' concerns of organized Jewry.
01:53:36.000And I was like, well, I didn't say anything because I thought that he effectively dismantled or provided a better alternative to Fuentes' ideas.
01:54:10.000Okay, so Stephen, I actually have listened to you here.
01:54:13.000And to be dead honest, very recently I listened to, it must have been a couple of weeks ago, and I don't remember the name of your episode, but you got into Muhammad and I was like, they're going to kill this guy.
01:54:24.000Like I genuinely was worried for your life when you were taking that one on.
01:54:30.000When you have a do a sketch as Bob Ross painting Muhammad, and then you go back to 2009, I did a three Stooges routine of Muhammad beating his six-year-old wife called the Quran challenge.
01:54:40.000I mean, listen, we, we, you know, all I'm going to say is like there, I have similar concerns with regard to culture.
01:55:52.000But I do think that race has a component.
01:55:54.000Now, of course, not all, not all, not all, not all.
01:55:57.000But when you're looking at the influx of H-1Bs in entire neighborhoods, not even just Muslim, where people feel like a stranger in their own neighborhood, and that displaces, by design, young white Americans with cheaper labor.
01:56:12.000And the problem is there's a whole group over here, the people who you've named, who I respect greatly, who don't actually address this entire group, a very large voting block, on the terms that they present.
01:56:27.000And I think they get it wrong sometimes, but it's not completely invalid.
01:56:32.000But again, you just brought up the fact that, you know, young men are feeling young.
01:56:36.000By the way, I would bet you that young American men who are also black and brown, I've seen a lot of young black American boys who don't like immigration for the reasons you're just talking about.
01:56:48.000So again, this is where I just, I don't, I, the melanin piece, I don't think is productive and I don't think it's relevant.
01:56:57.000But I do see all your points with regard to immigration and cultural assimilation.
01:57:04.000And I think that's, and again, sometimes what I'm just saying is we need to be charitable to people who, if shorthand, say Browning of America, or if people say shorthand, white Americans when they talk about displacement.
01:59:17.000I think I see, I think I see all of your, you know, I think I, I, like I said, I have listened to you and I tend to agree with many of your concerns.
01:59:25.000I just don't equate them to skin color.
01:59:27.000I'm not equating them to skin, but I'm saying you do need to understand why some people might, and then you can present the why.
01:59:35.000Well, hold on, it's not just skin color.
01:59:39.000We make generalizations and we have to.
01:59:41.000It's a self-preservation mechanism where you go, okay, we've tried a lot of immigrants, for example, from a place like India.
01:59:47.000People from India tend to look more similar than people in the United States, different skin color, and the assimilation isn't there.
01:59:53.000It's not there in a way that we saw from Irish Americans, that we saw from Italian Americans, that we see with Jewish Americans.
01:59:59.000I would say where I disagree with someone like Nick Fuentes, Polish Americans.
02:00:02.000And a big reason for that is because we share, you know, if you take Italian immigrants and Irish immigrants, they'd be in different boroughs, maybe, but they share a common religion, a common language, especially if they learned it here.
02:00:15.000It's not like one is from Mars and one is from Venus.
02:00:17.000And so the shorthand is: okay, no more people from this country that happens to be brown because they don't become good Americans.
02:00:24.000And they're displacing Americans as far as work, as far as culture, and it's legitimate concern.
02:00:30.000And it's why people like Nick Fuentes are just eating the lunch of a lot of the people who you list, old guard conservatives.
02:00:38.000It's not even because they're necessarily wrong.
02:00:41.000On some issues, they're right and he's wrong.
02:00:42.000I would agree with him a whole lot more.
02:00:44.000It's that there is this pervasive ignoring of grievances from people saying, well, it's not that, it's this.
02:00:56.000I just think you do a massive disservice to the message.
02:01:01.000And you hand somebody a weapon to club you over the head with and utilize against you by making it about skin color.
02:01:12.000All of the points you make, they happen to be, hey, listen, if you're from this part of the world and you believe whatever, we could get into all the different ideas that you and I arguably both deem un-American, right?
02:01:31.000Iran is a, you know, they beat a woman to death because her hair was showing.
02:01:36.000Like, no, that is deeply alarming to me.
02:01:41.000But at the same time, I have another Iranian in Patrick Bed David who ran from that and thinks it's disgusting and foul.
02:01:48.000I just, for me, it is about principles and values and assimilation.
02:01:54.000And I just think if you're trying to communicate this, you do yourself a disservice about making it about skin color because you also effectively allow the left to shut you down with that.
02:02:26.000I'll tell you exactly why, because I don't want to step over dollars to pick up pennies.
02:02:30.000I don't want to hopscotch the giant voting bloc in this country who are concerned with demographic changes that are real, who are concerned with feminist pervasive influence, which is real, to try and reach the Kanye's of the world or the ex-only fans of the world.
02:02:44.000I see people constantly abandon, like you've talked about, fundamental principles in order to cater to a new voting base that isn't going to be around that long anyway.
02:02:53.000So I just have to do it the way that I believe is truthful.
02:02:59.000But I think you're, I personally, I think you're a very good faith actor.
02:03:04.000We may disagree on how to reach those young boys.
02:03:08.000You're saying I have to acknowledge this.
02:03:10.000I'm saying, well, okay, if you feel you have to do it, I think it could be counterintuitive because it shuts you down to this group of people over here.
02:04:51.000What would you say are the most important?
02:04:54.000Because there's so much now in the age of influencers, right?
02:04:56.000You'll get a guy who's just obviously an anabolics and buy my tea.
02:05:00.000And you're like, tell them about the trend, bitch.
02:05:03.000But what about, like, what do you think should cut through the fog?
02:05:06.000What do you think are the most fundamental sort of precepts that people need to know, especially going into the new year, as far as strength training, like the fundamentals without getting off in the weeds?
02:06:41.000So the Washington Post, actually, I know you want to vomit, but just hear me out.
02:06:45.000They actually did a really good job in exposing the ways that big food worked to push this narrative, whether it was paying off registered dieticians, influencers online, coming up with hashtags like D-Rail, TheShame.
02:07:02.000Now, when you have a group of women who've been struggling with their weight for a host of different reasons, and you say, oh, no, no, no, listen, this is not your fault.
02:10:40.000Well, what's funny is a boy, I was literally removed, posts removed from Facebook back in the day in the 2010s when Tess Holiday was a big thing and the fat pride.
02:10:50.000Me saying this person is, I'll tell you what, a change of my mind that I've wanted to do for a long time.
02:10:55.000Is at a fat pride conference and actually having a treadmill and a doctor present and saying all sizes are beautiful, stress test with a stack of $10,000.
02:11:06.000If a morbidly obese person can get to the point of moderately athletic, and I actually wanted to hang it from a fishing rod, you know, along with cake, just to see, just to prove the point definitively.
02:11:48.000And you know, the standard for men, and this is something, again, when listening to young men, they will tell you for young women, look, not everyone's, you're obviously very, very fit.
02:12:44.000The pressure is staggering on boys as well as girls.
02:12:49.000I think there's healthy role models that can speak to young boys better.
02:12:54.000These young boys just happen to have access to me through my brother and have grown up around me and reached out to ask me about these things.
02:13:16.000And I say because it's the root cause of a lot of, not just feminism, not just men, fuck, but I mean the root cause of a lot of society's ills as far as the fundamental deconstruction of our central governing units, the family, and also male-female roles in society.
02:13:48.000And by the way, I think he's a very good man and took it probably, it affected me more than most because only really two people consistently know what it's like to be in that spot.
02:14:00.000And I've dealt with a lot of these threats.
02:14:02.000But we did have a different approach professionally and I disagreed with him.
02:14:06.000And let me explain to you what that is and maybe it'll help illuminate as to why I'll sit down and talk with anyone.
02:14:11.000I never had one time because the school required it.
02:14:15.000I've never had a speaker outside of the one time at Urbana, Illinois at a change my mind.
02:14:20.000And I don't talk with anyone who isn't sitting down next to me at that table.
02:14:25.000The approach was, I don't want to yell because it's no longer a conversation.
02:14:30.000It's performative and it becomes dunking.
02:14:33.000And so I was always able to sit down with actual communists, actual Antifa people, because I was able to say, ignore all this, ignore all the rest of the noise.
02:14:44.000And you, it's just you and me at a table.
02:16:08.000The platitudes, the, but you said this.
02:16:11.000If I waste that much time on, but you said this, he goes, well, okay, yeah, but this is the context.
02:16:15.000And maybe he didn't provide it before.
02:16:17.000I'll never be able to get to, and I've seen this in change my mind after change my mind.
02:16:21.000We're being able to recognize, and I've always said this is the single most valuable skill if you are looking to grow a movement or preserve it.
02:16:29.000One skill, being able to identify the minds that you can change and the ones that you can't, meaning people who have taken a position by default, that's the liberal position in this country because of academia, because of our institutions, media, and the people who are the purveyors of said perspective, the James Camerons of the world, the Sean Penns, the Chuck Schumer's of the world.
02:16:54.000And if you can delineate your approach is different.
02:16:59.000And the other is, okay, now you need to make an example of this person in the correct way so that everyone else's mind who can be changed, you can reach them.
02:17:08.000And being able to, not saying I always do it, but I've gotten more reps in than anyone else going the person across from me, who am I trying to convince?