Louder with Crowder - Vanity Fair's Susie Wiles Hit Piece: Who's To Blame PLUS Special Guest Jillian Michaels

00:00:01.000 It's just webbing when I won't let marry your field. 1.00

00:00:07.000 I help your buddy talk about grandpa.

00:00:10.000 Waking up, talking about Kindle My Christmas.

00:00:20.000 I won't let Mary Blue talked about grandpa.

00:01:19.000 Love the flow.

00:01:24.000 69.

00:01:26.000 Now it's time for new, believable people.

00:01:30.000 And we must do it.

00:01:32.000 If we don't control insiders, this will be over and over.

00:01:37.000 To lead it by an 8.

00:01:38.000 Big fat.

00:01:39.000 We love to find common ground.

00:01:42.000 To hold the spread of lies.

00:01:45.000 And we must do it big, fat.

00:01:47.000 We love finding common ground.

00:01:49.000 To hold the spread of lies.

00:01:52.000 And any America first. 0.65

00:01:56.000 America first.

00:01:57.000 Naughty, non-fatal.

00:01:59.000 We want to build a much better, believable people.

00:02:03.000 And we must do it.

00:02:04.000 Non-fatal.

00:02:06.000 Communication very much higher.

00:02:09.000 America first.

00:02:10.000 To lead it by an any insiders fighting for insiders.

00:02:14.000 Time to stop.

00:02:15.000 Insiders fighting for insiders.

00:02:18.000 More of insiders fighting for insiders.

00:02:21.000 Time to stop.

00:02:23.000 Insiders fighting for insiders.

00:02:25.000 America first.

00:02:27.000 Love the flow.

00:02:31.000 69.

00:02:32.000 Now it's time for new, believable people.

00:02:36.000 And we must do it.

00:02:38.000 If we don't control insiders, this will be over and over.

00:02:43.000 To lead it by an 8 big fat.

00:02:46.000 We love it.

00:02:48.000 To hold the spread of lies.

00:03:06.000 If that's an indicator, Jillian Michaels is going to run roughshod over everything. 1.00

00:03:11.000 Welcome to the lineup live, 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. Eastern.

00:03:16.000 Now, Tullman, yeah.

00:03:18.000 Live on Rumble weekdays.

00:03:20.000 Hey, this is our last live show before the Christmas special tomorrow, which we give back, find some families, organizations in need, and spread it around.

00:03:28.000 We are able to do that because of your subscriptions, because of your support.

00:03:31.000 And it's a fun time of year today.

00:03:33.000 We have Jillian Michaels on the show. 1.00

00:03:36.000 You know that I will answer for anything I say.

00:03:38.000 And she actually has been supportive of some things in the past and critical.

00:03:41.000 So hopefully we can have a productive conversation regarding the state of the right wing, the conservative movement right now, where people like me fit in, where people like her fit in.

00:03:51.000 Also, Vanity Fair wrote this article.

00:03:54.000 It was kind of profiling Susie Wiles there in the Trump administration.

00:03:59.000 I'll tell you everything you need to know.

00:04:00.000 They said that nine people died January 6th.

00:04:06.000 But we'll fact-check all of it.

00:04:08.000 All of it.

00:04:08.000 I mean, just rapid fire.

00:04:09.000 It's media malpractice.

00:04:10.000 Let me ask you, what surprised you most from the Vanity Fair article?

00:04:14.000 And what questions would you like to see most?

00:04:16.000 With Jillian Michaels, Merry Christmas.

00:04:18.000 On with the show.

00:04:26.000 What a game it has been thus far.

00:04:27.000 The bases are loaded, folks.

00:04:29.000 I got loaded last night after the bank called me.

00:04:31.000 Uh-huh.

00:04:32.000 Up to bat now is Babe Ruth.

00:04:35.000 Wait, that's not a woman, is it? 1.00

00:04:37.000 No, no, it was a man who called me.

00:04:39.000 A woman at the bank? 0.94

00:04:40.000 Are you ludicrous?

00:04:41.000 No, you imbecile.

00:04:42.000 The player, babe.

00:04:44.000 It's saying right here, it's a man.

00:04:45.000 Babe Ruth is in fact a man.

00:04:47.000 Oh, they said due to the market crash that represents the house.

00:04:50.000 There's the windup.

00:04:52.000 The pitch.

00:04:53.000 And ho, Doctor.

00:04:54.000 It appears he hit the ball over the wall.

00:04:57.000 That has got to be illegal.

00:04:59.000 That's what I said, but I guess all my stocks are worthless now, and I'm dead broke.

00:05:04.000 No, not you, you imbecile.

00:05:06.000 I meant that towering hit over the wall.

00:05:08.000 We have to check the rulebook here and see we'll get back to you, folks.

00:05:11.000 That's never been done before.

00:05:12.000 He'll likely get kicked out of the game for that kind of measure.

00:05:15.000 Just like I got kicked out of my home.

00:05:17.000 Will you stop making this about you, Chip?

00:05:21.000 Your pathetic life, you're making everyone sad.

00:05:24.000 What's this now?

00:05:26.000 They're talking.

00:05:28.000 Hold on.

00:05:30.000 Yes, I'm getting word.

00:05:31.000 The umpires have talked it over.

00:05:32.000 Now they're saying that that is in fact a legal hit.

00:05:36.000 Over the walls, a legal hit the battery and all three runners will score.

00:05:39.000 Wow.

00:05:40.000 Everyone's scoring but me these days.

00:05:42.000 They're calling it a home run.

00:05:44.000 After this game, I won't have a home to run to.

00:05:47.000 Well, you wouldn't be in this situation, Chip, if you'd have called American Financing like I've told you.

00:05:51.000 They've helped thousands of Americans.

00:05:53.000 They never charge any upfront or hidden fees, so you don't have to worry about any curveballs, and you need to make better decisions overall, Chip.

00:06:01.000 That doesn't sound half-bad.

00:06:02.000 And for you, half-pads, the best you're going to get.

00:06:04.000 Here's the pitch, and foul ball. 0.98

00:06:13.000 Walk it off, Chip.

00:06:15.000 We have a job to do.

00:06:17.000 Chip?

00:06:18.000 Call American Financing today at 1-800-974-6500 or visit AmericanFinancing.net/slash Crowder.

00:06:26.000 No upfront fees.

00:06:28.000 Closing as fast as 10 days, and you could even lay up a two mortgage payments.

00:06:32.000 NMLS 1-82-334.

00:06:39.000 Hello, everybody.

00:06:40.000 Merry Christmas.

00:06:41.000 Tomorrow, we are so excited to bring you our annual Christmas extravaganza in which Santa Crowder gives back its favorite time of year where we're able to use your generosity and your subscriptions to Mug Club Now Rumble Premium to help give back to those in our communities who really need it most and deserve it most.

00:07:02.000 You've sent us your letters, your videos.

00:07:04.000 Organizations have reached out, and we've decided where we can do the most good, and we want to share it with you.

00:07:10.000 We'll see you all tomorrow at 11 a.m. Eastern.

00:07:15.000 Oh, see you then.

00:07:17.000 Thank you so much, Santa.

00:07:18.000 The bottom of my heart.

00:08:03.000 Gotta be with you.

00:08:03.000 Hey, Tulan, good on you for not ruining the clips here, though.

00:08:07.000 Hey, thanks.

00:08:07.000 Yeah.

00:08:08.000 Oh, I think it was an intro to reset.

00:08:11.000 A lot to get to today.

00:08:12.000 We're going to have to go through a couple of things pretty quickly because Miss Michael's miss, misses? 0.97

00:08:17.000 Something.

00:08:19.000 I'm not going to lie.

00:08:19.000 I don't know how it works with the same-sex couples.

00:08:22.000 Yeah.

00:08:22.000 We'll go with Miss.

00:08:23.000 We'll go with Fetching Lady. 0.99

00:08:25.000 She's going to be on later.

00:08:26.000 And, you know, we have a code here.

00:08:29.000 If we are the ones who drew first blood, as it were, we answer for everything that we say.

00:08:33.000 And she disagreed, wanted to talk with us.

00:08:34.000 And I'm happy to welcome her.

00:08:37.000 It's a live show weekdays, 11 a.m. Eastern.

00:08:40.000 Captain Morgan, CEO, how are you?

00:08:42.000 I'm doing well.

00:08:42.000 How are you?

00:08:43.000 Good.

00:08:43.000 I need to adjust, just stay on Gerald because I need to adjust Christmas here.

00:08:47.000 It's pretty close.

00:08:48.000 Why?

00:08:48.000 What's wrong with it?

00:08:49.000 Christmas?

00:08:50.000 Nothing.

00:08:50.000 I think it's still on the 25th.

00:08:52.000 But you're saying it in a leading way.

00:08:53.000 No, I said, are you ready?

00:08:54.000 Do you notice that are you aware that you have a way of making people intensely uncomfortable when it's not necessary?

00:09:00.000 I make people intensely uncomfortable.

00:09:02.000 I thought that was anxiety.

00:09:04.000 It's just been Gerald the whole time.

00:09:06.000 Yeah.

00:09:06.000 Mostly the audience is uncomfortable at this point.

00:09:09.000 It's like a crowd of cloud of just awkward.

00:09:14.000 Well, somebody better tell the VA.

00:09:15.000 They think it's their fault.

00:09:16.000 I asked a normal question.

00:09:17.000 I said, are you ready for Christmas?

00:09:18.000 It's the angel of Gerald.

00:09:20.000 If you don't place lamb's blood above your door, he'll annoy the firstborn child. 0.95

00:09:26.000 Oh, we love you.

00:09:27.000 The fourth board.

00:09:27.000 Let me know how that one's supposed to go.

00:09:29.000 True, you're going to be daddy times four.

00:09:31.000 And Wednesday, December 31st.

00:09:33.000 Touman, I might actually need you to adjust my thinking.

00:09:36.000 It's going all crooked.

00:09:37.000 And I'm the weird one.

00:09:38.000 No, I'm a weird one.

00:09:38.000 Okay.

00:09:39.000 December 31st, Bananas Comedy Club in Rutherford, New Jersey.

00:09:42.000 Hopefully that's the good part of New Jersey.

00:09:45.000 I think it might be.

00:09:46.000 I think there's the Jets and Giants play there, maybe.

00:09:49.000 I'm not sure, but we're going to have champagne, sing old Ling Zine, and maybe slap each other in the face.

00:09:54.000 None of that seems like a tradition.

00:09:56.000 It just seems like it's all New Year's traditions in my house.

00:09:58.000 Oh.

00:09:58.000 In Canada, they have an old man.

00:10:00.000 And he slaps you in the face.

00:10:01.000 No, he wrestles a baby.

00:10:03.000 Oh, he wrestles a baby?

00:10:04.000 He wrestles a baby.

00:10:05.000 Well, that doesn't seem fair.

00:10:06.000 And if the baby wins, you go into a new year.

00:10:08.000 And if the old man wins, you don't.

00:10:10.000 You stay.

00:10:10.000 So it's like in actually in Quebec, parts of Quebec is still 1984.

00:10:14.000 And I'll tell you what, most years, it's just an old man beating the crap out of a baby.

00:10:19.000 It's not a very fun one.

00:10:20.000 It's like a really bad version of Groundhog Day.

00:10:22.000 Effectively.

00:10:23.000 Wow.

00:10:24.000 Well, I like it, though.

00:10:24.000 Yeah.

00:10:25.000 I mean, it's festive.

00:10:26.000 You know, that the old man forgets what he's doing?

00:10:28.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:10:29.000 Why am I beating this baby?

00:10:30.000 It's ugly, but I'll keep.

00:10:31.000 And occasionally you get a baby who's really strong and he'll surprise you.

00:10:34.000 That's a thing.

00:10:35.000 Yeah.

00:10:36.000 Yeah.

00:10:36.000 Or like one of those, you know, what do you talk about Willis?

00:10:40.000 What's his name?

00:10:40.000 I feel like it's a good idea.

00:10:41.000 Gary Coleman.

00:10:42.000 Yeah.

00:10:42.000 It's a Gary Coleman.

00:10:43.000 That joke sucks now.

00:10:44.000 No, no, it doesn't.

00:10:45.000 I didn't remember that guy's name.

00:10:46.000 It still works.

00:10:47.000 Okay.

00:10:47.000 Sure.

00:10:48.000 Because he was little and he was funny.

00:10:50.000 Yeah.

00:10:51.000 And black.

00:10:52.000 All right.

00:10:52.000 Iowa State House candidate Ben Schauer just released a massive announcement.

00:10:56.000 A huge, towering giant announcement.

00:11:01.000 Hi, I'm Stephanie Stockman, candidate for Congress in the 4th District.

00:11:06.000 And today, I'm offering my endorsement to Ben Schauer because.

00:11:10.000 I value education.

00:11:12.000 I demand health care for all islands regardless of where they live.

00:11:15.000 And I want to revitalize our rural communities.

00:11:17.000 Boys.

00:11:18.000 These are of course he demands free health care.

00:11:21.000 A little self-serving, love.

00:11:23.000 And I know him is the guy to get them done.

00:11:26.000 Let's get him elected, guys.

00:11:28.000 Now, Shar is running for Iowa State House District 15 Stone.

00:11:35.000 And he's also the star of Disney's new live action, Big Hero 600.

00:11:40.000 Yeah, so he's, yeah, yeah.

00:11:43.000 He looks familiar.

00:11:44.000 He's Baymax.

00:11:45.000 Okay.

00:11:47.000 All right.

00:11:47.000 La la la dead.

00:11:48.000 Baymax.

00:11:49.000 By the way, that's the worst.

00:11:50.000 The series is the worst, most woke stuff you've ever seen.

00:11:52.000 The show, the movie.

00:11:53.000 The film was great.

00:11:54.000 I love the film.

00:11:55.000 Yeah.

00:11:55.000 And then I started watching the show, and I was like, wait a second, this isn't a, and not that the mixed race part is a problem, a mixed race gay couple making out at a at a fish taco stand, is it?

00:12:06.000 Yeah, someone had to animate that.

00:12:07.000 Yeah.

00:12:08.000 Yeah.

00:12:08.000 That's fun, isn't it?

00:12:09.000 Right.

00:12:09.000 And I guarantee you they were editing that one solo.

00:12:11.000 That guy looks like Baymax XXX.

00:12:13.000 Yes, he does.

00:12:18.000 That's it.

00:12:18.000 That's bad.

00:12:19.000 That's all.

00:12:19.000 That's why I hate local.

00:12:20.000 There's nothing more on that issue.

00:12:21.000 Yeah, vote for him.

00:12:22.000 Yeah.

00:12:23.000 No.

00:12:23.000 Can you vote for him twice?

00:12:27.000 Yeah, like eating your leftovers.

00:12:28.000 Yeah.

00:12:28.000 I don't know how it works.

00:12:29.000 Does he have to buy two places on the ballot?

00:12:32.000 Cheryl, we moved on from the.

00:12:33.000 Yeah, we're already done with how rude of you.

00:12:36.000 It's unnecessary.

00:12:37.000 Jeez, the guy just has a thyroid issue.

00:12:38.000 He's a hero here.

00:12:40.000 Yeah.

00:12:41.000 You're one of those guys who would have been spinning the elephant man.

00:12:45.000 Yeah, you're an elitist is what you are.

00:12:47.000 He's a human.

00:12:49.000 All right.

00:12:52.000 Sometimes people forget that Donald Trump is a human being.

00:12:54.000 Sometimes people get that Pete Hegseth is a human being.

00:12:56.000 Sometimes people forget that anyone, Candace Owens, Erica Kirk, Nick Fuentes is a human being.

00:13:01.000 When you see these public figures, legacy media has thrived.

00:13:06.000 It requires dehumanizing people with whom they disagree.

00:13:10.000 And of course, the people with whom they disagree are those with traditional values, those who represent half of the country.

00:13:16.000 You know, the half that elects presidents.

00:13:18.000 They are corrupt.

00:13:19.000 You know it.

00:13:20.000 I know it.

00:13:21.000 But this latest example is so glaring to the point that you almost wonder if they've just decided that this is their last ditch.

00:13:30.000 It's a Hail Mary.

00:13:31.000 They're not even going to try and appear as though they're practicing journalism whatsoever.

00:13:35.000 So Vanity Fair released this 10,000-plus word piece on Donald Trump and more specifically his chief of staff, Susie Wiles.

00:13:46.000 A revealing new interview with really the most powerful, powerful person in President Trump's White House beyond him, chief of staff, Susie Wiles, commenting and going there on a wide range of topics, it seems, with Vanity Fair in a new series of interviews, from the handling of the Epstein investigation to her assessment of the big names on the team.

00:14:07.000 Let me get into some of the main things that I found very notable from what Chris Whipple, who works with Venetian Fair, detailed from their conversations.

00:14:14.000 One is that Wiles referred to President Trump as someone having a, quote, alcoholic personality.

00:14:20.000 She also talked a lot about the vice president, JD Vance, someone who I should note, you know, had this conversion that Whipple noted as well from never Trumper to a MAGA acolyte.

00:14:30.000 Susie Wiles essentially said that that change, that conversion has been, quote, sort of political.

00:14:36.000 And she said the vice president has been a quote conspiracy theorist for a decade.

00:14:42.000 Okay.

00:14:42.000 Wiles already responded.

00:14:43.000 Let me read you some of this.

00:14:44.000 She said the article published early this morning is a disingenuously framed hit piece on me.

00:14:49.000 And the finest president, White House, staff, and cabinet in history, significant context was disregarded.

00:14:54.000 And much of what I and others said about the team and the president was left out of the story.

00:14:58.000 I assume that after reading it, that this was done to paint an overwhelmingly chaotic and negative narrative about the president and our team.

00:15:05.000 The truth is that Trump White House has already accomplished more in 11 months than any other president has accomplished in eight years, and that is due to the unmatched leadership and vision of President Trump, for whom I have been honored to work for the better part of a decade.

00:15:16.000 None of this will stop our relentless pursuit of making America great again.

00:15:20.000 And I know what you're saying or what you're thinking.

00:15:21.000 Well, of course she has to say that because she, you know, Wiles doesn't want to lose her job, especially around the holidays. 0.73

00:15:28.000 But who's right?

00:15:29.000 Who's telling the truth?

00:15:30.000 Is there context that may explain this?

00:15:32.000 It's time for Media Mail Practice.

00:15:43.000 All right.

00:15:44.000 So rapid fire.

00:15:45.000 We're just going to go through this, all the references, links available in the description.

00:15:49.000 First, Vanity Fair claim from the author.

00:15:53.000 We'll get to him later on, his background, Chris Whipple.

00:15:55.000 First claim was that January 6th was a bloody riot.

00:15:58.000 This is what he wrote.

00:15:59.000 Then Trump issued pardons to almost everyone convicted in the bloody January 6th, 2021 assault on the Capitol, in which nine people ultimately died and 150 were injured.

00:16:11.000 There's more that he wrote.

00:16:12.000 I don't want to read it.

00:16:16.000 Do I need to say anything else?

00:16:18.000 Everything else is in chronological order.

00:16:20.000 This one was so egregious.

00:16:21.000 Honestly, I had to look up where they got the number nine.

00:16:25.000 I've never heard that number before.

00:16:27.000 I remember early on they said five, which was false.

00:16:30.000 The furthest I'd seen people go was seven, which is false.

00:16:34.000 Nine just seems as though it's anyone tangentially related to.

00:16:39.000 In other words, if someone happened to be in the zip code January 6th and has died since then, if you calculated all of that up, you'd get nine.

00:16:50.000 Here's the truth.

00:16:51.000 Ashley Babbitt was the only one who was killed at the Capitol on January 6th.

00:16:56.000 That nine include strokes, overdoses, suicides, some of which are months, months, months after and have no relation to January 6th.

00:17:04.000 And that one guy who tried to shut down power to the building.

00:17:16.000 I love how they just lead off trying to reframe it as a bloody coup, you know, where tons of people died.

00:17:22.000 How many times do we have to sit through this?

00:17:24.000 I mean, do people really believe this anymore?

00:17:25.000 Like, do you think their audience actually does?

00:17:28.000 I don't know.

00:17:29.000 I think some people out there actually do.

00:17:30.000 Well, by 2040, at least a few people will have died of natural causes.

00:17:33.000 True.

00:17:34.000 Oh, that's true.

00:17:34.000 Yeah.

00:17:35.000 It would be like doing an article on this show, let's say in 2050 and saying, and four people died at Ladder-Crowder.

00:17:42.000 Well, one of them got AIDS later on because he was gay.

00:17:44.000 Yeah, my count's only two.

00:17:46.000 Yeah.

00:17:47.000 I know.

00:17:47.000 Right, two.

00:17:49.000 If they were being honest, intellectually honest, you would go into one of the suicides that I'm sure that they counted in this on a guy who was ready to kind of settle.

00:17:55.000 He didn't do anything, you know, anything bad really other than kind of do on a walking tour.

00:18:00.000 But they tried to throw terrorism charges on top of it and put him away for the rest of his life.

00:18:04.000 And so he killed himself.

00:18:05.000 Yeah.

00:18:06.000 Maybe that would be something to bring up.

00:18:08.000 Here's the next claim from Vanity Fair that President Trump has an alcoholics personality.

00:18:14.000 Here's the quote.

00:18:15.000 Trump, she told me, has an alcoholics personality.

00:18:20.000 Okay.

00:18:22.000 Here's the truth.

00:18:23.000 The context actually makes it clear that this was a compliment.

00:18:27.000 So let me read you the context that was omitted.

00:18:30.000 Some clinical psychologist that knows one million times more than I do will dispute what I'm going to say.

00:18:36.000 This is, I believe, Wiles discussing this in the article saying, but high-functioning alcoholics or alcoholics in general, their personalities are exaggerated when they drink.

00:18:44.000 And so I'm a little bit of an expert in big personalities.

00:18:47.000 Trump has an alcoholics personality.

00:18:49.000 He operates with a view that there's nothing he can't do.

00:18:53.000 Nothing.

00:18:53.000 Zero.

00:18:54.000 Nothing.

00:18:55.000 It seems that that context is actually complimentary.

00:18:59.000 And I think it's pretty well known that Donald Trump is a teetotaler.

00:19:02.000 He doesn't drink at all.

00:19:05.000 Here's how you know it's true.

00:19:06.000 No one's ever attacked him for being an alcoholic.

00:19:09.000 No one's ever attacked him for abusing alcohol.

00:19:13.000 The left would use it as they do with Pete Hexett trying to say he's a drunk because he got drunk one time at a hotel.

00:19:17.000 So, this idea that anyone would buy this, it just tells you how little of an attempt there is for Vanity Fair to be accurate.

00:19:28.000 And actually, the opposite.

00:19:29.000 They're deliberately lying to you.

00:19:30.000 This is an omission.

00:19:31.000 This is a lie.

00:19:33.000 So, let me read it again.

00:19:34.000 He operates with a view, like an alcoholic, that there's nothing he can't do.

00:19:38.000 Nothing, zero, nothing.

00:19:40.000 That sounds like Donald Trump, including taking on an entire Chinese gang alone.

00:19:45.000 I cut the bottle.

00:19:46.000 There's another one.

00:19:47.000 Whoops, whoops, hit your eyes.

00:19:50.000 Don't drink.

00:19:52.000 I'm going to come.

00:19:53.000 Do you think that's a good idea?

00:19:55.000 Don't worry.

00:19:56.000 He gives him college.

00:19:56.000 Here he comes.

00:19:57.000 Get ready.

00:19:58.000 A lot of drinking.

00:19:59.000 I'm not used to it.

00:20:01.000 Bang! 1.00

00:20:01.000 Look at that, surprise. 1.00

00:20:02.000 Oh, over you, little Chinaman. 1.00

00:20:04.000 Back kick.

00:20:05.000 Another kick.

00:20:06.000 Here comes the tie.

00:20:08.000 Oh, elbow.

00:20:09.000 Look.

00:20:09.000 I'm feeling it.

00:20:11.000 Yeah.

00:20:12.000 And block.

00:20:13.000 Break elbow.

00:20:15.000 Oh, that hurts right on your toe.

00:20:17.000 You ever stub your toe?

00:20:18.000 Hit.

00:20:18.000 Bat, bat.

00:20:20.000 I'm going to break it.

00:20:21.000 Look at that.

00:20:23.000 You have no chance.

00:20:29.000 Worth it.

00:20:29.000 That's ridiculous.

00:20:31.000 Was it?

00:20:31.000 I don't know.

00:20:32.000 I'm not sure.

00:20:33.000 I'm not sure.

00:20:34.000 Sometimes we're sitting here and it's like, all right, just run the clip and we'll just dub it as Trump is a drunk or Johnny's watcher and let's see what happens.

00:20:40.000 It was awesome.

00:20:41.000 I don't think that's real.

00:20:43.000 I don't think he really did that.

00:20:44.000 No, that's the director's cut.

00:20:47.000 Oh, okay.

00:20:47.000 Yeah.

00:20:48.000 Donald Trump was a director.

00:20:49.000 That's his commentary.

00:20:51.000 Look at this little Chinaman. 1.00

00:20:52.000 Look what he does.

00:20:53.000 Look, he moves right.

00:20:54.000 The Peking Opera.

00:20:55.000 They would, if you didn't jump over a table properly, they'd beat you and place you in a closet. 0.95

00:21:00.000 They didn't get everything wrong.

00:21:04.000 All right.

00:21:06.000 Next claim, unless anyone has more to add, and I think we wrapped that one up.

00:21:11.000 And this one is really bad.

00:21:14.000 That Charlie Kirk's assassination was just like the Reichstag fire.

00:21:18.000 Oh, really?

00:21:19.000 Charlie Kirk, here's a quote: Charlie Kirk's assassination in September turbocharged Trump's campaign of revenge and retribution.

00:21:27.000 Critics have compared this moment to a Reichstag fire, a modern version of Hitler's exploitation of the torching of Berlin's parliament.

00:21:35.000 Okay.

00:21:37.000 Here's the truth.

00:21:39.000 First off, the comparisons to Hitler and the comparisons to Nazi.

00:21:42.000 That's a big reason why Charlie Kirk was killed through radicalized leftists.

00:21:45.000 And we told you that and you guys have kept doing it.

00:21:47.000 But the real truth is the SS started said fire.

00:21:50.000 Oops.

00:21:51.000 So unless they're implying that President Trump killed Charlie Kirk, it couldn't be less apt of a comparison.

00:21:59.000 He did, President Trump started a couple of fires, though.

00:22:03.000 Oh, hot, hot, hot coffee.

00:22:07.000 And that's fun.

00:22:08.000 It's just different fires.

00:22:09.000 Yeah, the name's a little on the hook.

00:22:10.000 I mean, just think about that.

00:22:13.000 They just can't help themselves.

00:22:14.000 Well, and it's not even something that the author is claiming.

00:22:16.000 It's just saying, well, and some critics have said.

00:22:18.000 It's like, well, you didn't even need to throw that in there.

00:22:21.000 What's the real point of throwing that in?

00:22:22.000 Name the critics who said that.

00:22:24.000 It's such a cop-out.

00:22:25.000 I know.

00:22:26.000 That being said, Donald Trump does that too.

00:22:28.000 He does.

00:22:28.000 Guarantee those people say that.

00:22:30.000 A lot of people have told me that Chris Whipple, oh, what a small penis he has.

00:22:35.000 I say, I wouldn't know that unless you, but they say it.

00:22:37.000 The people who've seen it say it.

00:22:39.000 He's an angry little penis boy. 0.99

00:22:44.000 I would never say that.

00:22:45.000 That's what people tell me.

00:22:46.000 I say, stop it.

00:22:47.000 He's a whipple nipple. 0.89

00:22:50.000 Whipple whipple.

00:22:51.000 Pumper third nipple, they call him. 0.63

00:22:55.000 You know that was rough as a child, though.

00:22:56.000 Come on.

00:22:57.000 Of course it was.

00:22:58.000 Maybe deservedly so now.

00:23:00.000 Yes.

00:23:00.000 Absolutely.

00:23:01.000 You know what?

00:23:01.000 Nerds can deserve to be beaten up.

00:23:03.000 I was one of them.

00:23:04.000 Here's the fourth claim from Vanity Fair.

00:23:07.000 Again, all the references available, link in the description.

00:23:08.000 And by the way, best way to stay in touch, download the Rumble app.

00:23:11.000 Follow me there.

00:23:13.000 Get out of these social media ghettos where they determine what you see and what you don't.

00:23:17.000 Just follow me on Rumble.

00:23:18.000 You get to see when we're live.

00:23:19.000 Of course, weekdays, 11 a.m.

00:23:20.000 And sometimes we do some special streams, special uploads.

00:23:23.000 The claim is that ICE has arrested 170 Americans.

00:23:27.000 Whoa.

00:23:28.000 Man, that's big.

00:23:29.000 Yeah, here's the truth.

00:23:31.000 This writer, Whipple, Whipple, Whipple, Pumpkin, Pumper, Third Nipple, whatever it is.

00:23:38.000 Pumpkin nipples. 0.59

00:23:42.000 That's what he is.

00:23:43.000 They call him Pumpkinhead with Nipples.

00:23:44.000 He roams the earth with his nipples hanging from his horse, looking for his real nipple. 0.92

00:23:53.000 This writer got it from a ProPublica report, which in the report clearly states 72% of these people were held for interfering with ICE.

00:24:00.000 You know, punching, kicking, screaming, committing assault.

00:24:03.000 And the remaining 28% were questioned and released.

00:24:07.000 You know, like someone who's questioned, arrested, or brought in for questioning regarding a crime.

00:24:11.000 And they go, okay, you're free to go.

00:24:12.000 Yeah.

00:24:13.000 There you go.

00:24:13.000 So what they want you to believe is that 170 Americans, American citizens, have been arrested by ICE and had their rights violated.

00:24:21.000 And perhaps you'll even fill in the blanks and think that they've been deported.

00:24:24.000 The truth is, these were criminals who were committing assault and battery on ICE, or they were brought in for questioning.

00:24:30.000 They were detained, and they were released.

00:24:32.000 That's it.

00:24:33.000 It's pretty simple.

00:24:34.000 How does Vanity Fair get this wrong? 0.55

00:24:35.000 Well, I think you know the answer.

00:24:36.000 Next claim, number five from Vanity Fair: that President Trump wants a regime change in Venezuela.

00:24:40.000 It's not about drugs.

00:24:41.000 He wrote, Over lunch, Wiles told me about Trump's Venezuela strategy.

00:24:45.000 He wants to keep on blowing boats up until Maduro cries, uncle.

00:24:48.000 Oh.

00:24:49.000 Not starting to.

00:24:51.000 Wait, he's writing that like a bad thing?

00:24:52.000 Okay.

00:24:53.000 And people way smarter than me on that say he will.

00:24:56.000 Wiles' statement appears to contradict the administration's official stance that blowing up boats is about drug interdiction, not regime change.

00:25:02.000 Here's the truth.

00:25:04.000 You know, regime change might be a happy accident, but these are drug boats, which publications like Vanity Fair in the past tried to obfuscate.

00:25:13.000 Remember that?

00:25:13.000 Yeah.

00:25:14.000 So here's some more context.

00:25:15.000 Wiles didn't mince words.

00:25:16.000 The president believed in harsh penalties for drug dealers.

00:25:19.000 As he said many, many, many times, these are not fishing boats, as some would like to allege.

00:25:23.000 The boats, she argued, carried drugs, eliminating them saves lives.

00:25:28.000 The president says 25,000.

00:25:30.000 I don't know what the number is, but he views those as lives saved, not people killed.

00:25:35.000 And on whether President Trump will take out Maduro, well, he's still thinking about it.

00:25:39.000 I haven't done it yet.

00:25:40.000 I may do it.

00:25:42.000 If this doesn't work out, probably I will do it.

00:25:45.000 I would almost say definitely.

00:25:48.000 I love that.

00:25:49.000 I'm still not sure.

00:25:50.000 Yeah.

00:25:50.000 Maybe.

00:25:51.000 Very possible.

00:25:53.000 Very likely.

00:25:54.000 Maybe not.

00:25:54.000 Yeah.

00:25:55.000 Almost 100%.

00:25:56.000 Probably, absolutely.

00:25:57.000 Look, they always say blowing up drug boats always comes before E, except on the C.

00:26:07.000 And maybe they'll be happy, or maybe it's me.

00:26:14.000 Aesop.

00:26:17.000 So, claim number six from Vanity Fair.

00:26:20.000 And this one comes by way of Brian Krassenstein.

00:26:22.000 Oh, geez.

00:26:23.000 Gay. 0.98

00:26:27.000 Bless you.

00:26:27.000 Wiles.

00:26:31.000 Rocket.

00:26:31.000 Okay.

00:26:32.000 Gesundheit.

00:26:33.000 Yeah.

00:26:38.000 All right.

00:26:40.000 Wiles said Trump is in the Epstein files, is one of the claims.

00:26:45.000 Here's the truth.

00:26:47.000 She said he's in the file and said so to clarify that he didn't do anything.

00:26:52.000 Here's what Wiles said: Trump is in the file, and we know he's in the file, and he's not in the file doing anything awful.

00:26:59.000 I told you a very long time ago, the one thing that you can be guaranteed of regarding the Epstein files is that Donald Trump is in it because he worked with authorities.

00:27:07.000 We already knew this.

00:27:08.000 We already knew this.

00:27:09.000 Like, there's no world in which he's not in the file.

00:27:11.000 Now, I think the file should be public.

00:27:12.000 I think the public has a right to know, especially since it was promised.

00:27:16.000 But this idea that it's somehow a scandal, it's silly.

00:27:19.000 10,000 words.

00:27:21.000 10,000 plus.

00:27:22.000 The next claim, claim number seven from Vanity Fair, that Elon Musk is a ketamine fiend.

00:27:28.000 He said, Wiles described Musk as something akin to a jacked-up Nusferatu.

00:27:35.000 I'm going to wrap that as a nickname on my Cybertruck.

00:27:39.000 Jacked-up Nosferatu.

00:27:40.000 Jacked up Nosferatu.

00:27:41.000 It's really cool.

00:27:44.000 You know, he would.

00:27:45.000 The challenge with Elon is keeping up with him, she told me.

00:27:48.000 He's an avowed ketamine user, and he sleeps in a sleeping bag in the executive office building in the daytime.

00:27:53.000 And he's an odd, odd duck, as I think geniuses are.

00:27:56.000 You know, it's not helpful, but he is his own person.

00:27:58.000 Here's the truth.

00:28:02.000 This one pretty much seems true.

00:28:03.000 That seems true.

00:28:05.000 And also, Scott Besant probably punched him in the face.

00:28:07.000 Yeah, probably.

00:28:08.000 Scott Bessant's probably his supplier.

00:28:10.000 Well, maybe.

00:28:12.000 Do you think that went further than we knew with Scott Besant?

00:28:15.000 I think so.

00:28:15.000 Careful.

00:28:16.000 You're messing with Nosferatu.

00:28:17.000 I'm undead.

00:28:20.000 Also, on ketamine.

00:28:22.000 Not to mention, look, let me, so you see all these claims, and now you know the truth.

00:28:26.000 And I hope that you go check out the references.

00:28:28.000 But this also is important to note: like, the background of somebody does matter if it is in line with the bias that you see in the reporting in their writing.

00:28:38.000 Yeah.

00:28:38.000 In this case, well, what do we know about Chris Whipple?

00:28:40.000 He's a very well-known leftist political author, writes for New York Times Daily Beast Politico.

00:28:46.000 He ignored Biden's mental decline in his 2023 book, The Fight for His Life, to be clear.

00:28:52.000 Also, this is the picture of Caroline Levitt that he picked.

00:28:55.000 And here's the thing: here's the thing.

00:28:58.000 Like, people are telling me that the women were saying you can see where she gets lip injections. 0.98

00:29:03.000 Now, first off, I think Caroline Levitt is a very pretty woman. 0.89

00:29:08.000 She doesn't need lip injections. 0.97

00:29:09.000 It's not a thing that women overdo it. 1.00

00:29:11.000 But I've never seen marks from lip injections.

00:29:15.000 They would have had to proactively find this picture.

00:29:17.000 And I know I have been to places where they have had before and after of women who get lip injections, right?

00:29:23.000 A close up, and you still don't see where the lip injections have taken place.

00:29:27.000 Somehow, Vanity Fair accidentally picked that picture that, by the way, doesn't even look, bring it back up.

00:29:34.000 Does that look like Caroline Levitt? 1.00

00:29:37.000 No.

00:29:37.000 Someone wouldn't recognize her.

00:29:38.000 So how is that journalism?

00:29:40.000 It's not.

00:29:42.000 She looks yellow, too.

00:29:44.000 Like they put a filter on it, like when they did Joe Rogan dirty.

00:29:48.000 Yeah.

00:29:48.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:49.000 Right now, maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but they certainly weren't picking a picture that would be most clearly indicative of Caroline Levitt.

00:29:57.000 Yeah.

00:29:57.000 If your goal is for the reader to be informed, hey, here's Carolyn Levitt as we talk about her.

00:30:03.000 You know her, you've seen her, you know her job.

00:30:04.000 All right, now let me give you context.

00:30:06.000 Instead, it's just used to try and get some jabs.

00:30:09.000 It's just petty.

00:30:10.000 Yeah, that was them going, oh, these are the things that this lady said, and also look ill. 1.00

00:30:14.000 Yeah, exactly right.

00:30:16.000 What do you think about this?

00:30:17.000 Right.

00:30:17.000 Like, okay.

00:30:18.000 And when asked his thoughts about the article, President Trump had this to say.

00:30:22.000 They don't know what the fuck they're doing.

00:30:24.000 Do you understand that?

00:30:25.000 You know what, I agree?

00:30:28.000 A little crude, but it gets the point.

00:30:30.000 That's one of my favorite presidential quotes ever.

00:30:32.000 Oh, yes.

00:30:33.000 And then my favorite presidential walk ever is him with the bandage on his ear walking out.

00:30:38.000 Like, this guy has some, people use the term aura.

00:30:40.000 He's got aura, and he's had some moments.

00:30:43.000 He gets it all over everybody around him.

00:30:45.000 It's my second favorite presidential quote of all time.

00:30:47.000 What's your first?

00:30:49.000 What's my first?

00:30:50.000 As President George W. Bush.

00:30:52.000 You fool me once.

00:30:55.000 Shame on you.

00:30:57.000 Fool me, you can't get fooled again.

00:30:58.000 Yeah.

00:30:59.000 You can't fool the fooler.

00:31:01.000 You can't fool a fool.

00:31:02.000 I do like that one.

00:31:03.000 My favorite is, are you going to finish that?

00:31:06.000 That was Taft.

00:31:09.000 But we were asking this during the break.

00:31:11.000 Taft, Grover Cleveland is the second most overweight president.

00:31:15.000 That's what I said.

00:31:16.000 No, it isn't.

00:31:18.000 No, I said Garfield.

00:31:19.000 My bad.

00:31:19.000 Yeah, you were thinking of the fire.

00:31:20.000 You were thinking of Arthur.

00:31:21.000 I was thinking of the cat.

00:31:22.000 Yes.

00:31:22.000 With the lasagna and the Mondays.

00:31:24.000 Yeah.

00:31:24.000 And I was thinking of the cat that's a clock.

00:31:27.000 So I believe we are going to have our guest on here any moment.

00:31:31.000 I think that you guys are establishing the call with guest Jillian Michaels.

00:31:35.000 And I will say this: tomorrow is our Christmas special.

00:31:38.000 So this is our last live show today.

00:31:40.000 It's always great.

00:31:41.000 We always love doing the special where we give back.

00:31:43.000 We've been doing it now for what?

00:31:44.000 Half a decade?

00:31:46.000 Yeah.

00:31:46.000 At least.

00:31:47.000 And yes, that does have to be pre-taped because we have to call the families and many of them work.

00:31:51.000 And there are a few moments where there isn't a dry eye in the house.

00:31:56.000 So look for that.

00:31:57.000 But I will tell you this: I'm glad to see this moment in time now where, remember, it used to always be the war over Christmas, Merry Christmas, the Cups, and Starbucks.

00:32:05.000 It seems to be over with now.

00:32:06.000 Yeah.

00:32:07.000 We have this administration just saying Merry Christmas, President Trump.

00:32:10.000 That should offend nobody.

00:32:12.000 And I'm glad that we have gotten past the point.

00:32:14.000 People don't realize how bad it can get.

00:32:17.000 They don't realize, some young people, how bad the woke progressive left got for years, where everything was politicized with not even a mainstream left agenda, but radical left.

00:32:30.000 And it was getting tiresome.

00:32:31.000 I'm glad we're past.

00:32:32.000 For example, nothing was said.

00:32:34.000 Even children's shows, past this.

00:32:36.000 Everything I touch turns into a disaster.

00:32:39.000 I guess I don't know what Christmas is all about.

00:32:42.000 Isn't there anyone who knows what Christmas is all about?

00:32:46.000 Sure, Charlie Brown.

00:32:47.000 I can tell you what Christmas is all about.

00:32:55.000 Lights, please.

00:32:57.000 Christmas is just another excuse for white Christian capitalists to shove their wealth and religion in the faces of marginalized people. 0.92

00:33:04.000 It has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus, who wasn't even born on December 25th.

00:33:08.000 Your Christmas isn't the only holiday, Charlie Brown.

00:33:11.000 What about Hanukkah, Kwanzaa?

00:33:13.000 Where's the school place to celebrate Yule?

00:33:16.000 Or the Hallmark movies, wishing everyone a merry winter solstice?

00:33:20.000 How about the Diwali Festival of Lights?

00:33:22.000 You never heard of the Diwali Festival of Lights, did you?

00:33:25.000 Don't get me started on the Salvation Army.

00:33:27.000 All this because America is a quasi-religious, anti-LGBTQ AIP oligarchy, where Christmas is thrust upon us and everyone falls for materialism each year like the good little mindless sheep they are. 0.93

00:33:41.000 And they follow their shepherd, Donald Trump.

00:33:45.000 And that's what Christmas is all about, you cis white male. 0.83

00:33:53.000 Oh, brother.

00:34:00.000 See, we got past that.

00:34:01.000 That's great.

00:34:02.000 That was only a couple of years ago.

00:34:03.000 I believe we have her on the line, Miss Jillian Michaels.

00:34:06.000 Before I bring her on, I do want to sort of present to you what was the catalyst for our back and forth and why she's on the show.

00:34:13.000 And I'm very glad to have her here on the show today.

00:34:16.000 This is when she sat down with Donald Trump Jr., and they were discussing sort of the right, its current state, and the need to disavow certain people to which I responded.

00:34:26.000 All of those people that your dad invited in-Tulsi, Kennedy, myself, inadvertently, right?

00:34:35.000 All of these more Rogan, all of these more moderate people who flee the crazy on the left are alarmed if the right doesn't disavow the Nick Fuentes.

00:34:47.000 And it doesn't mean, I'm not saying cancel Tucker Carlson.

00:34:50.000 That is not what I'm saying.

00:34:51.000 I wish Tucker had handled him differently.

00:34:53.000 I have no problem saying that.

00:34:55.000 But I do think it's going to be a problem.

00:34:59.000 And I'm wondering if you see it as a problem for the right in the midterms and in 2028.

00:35:06.000 I think if this continues without it being fully condemned aggressively, I think you get Gavin Newsom for president.

00:35:14.000 And I know what that looks like.

00:35:15.000 And it's scary stuff.

00:35:16.000 I'm just deeply concerned that if there's a guy who says women want to be and somebody does not say, this is not who we are as a party, this is not conservatism.

00:35:29.000 We find him repulsive.

00:35:32.000 I'm telling you, it's also sometimes.

00:35:36.000 All right.

00:35:36.000 And then there was a back and forth.

00:35:38.000 Please welcome host of Keeping It Real or Keeping It Real.

00:35:42.000 It's not N, to be clear.

00:35:42.000 This is not Michael What Up Steal.

00:35:44.000 Keeping It Real.

00:35:45.000 You can follow her on X and on YouTube.

00:35:47.000 Jillian Michaels.

00:35:52.000 Jillian Michaels, can you see me, hear me?

00:35:54.000 Merry Christmas.

00:35:56.000 I can see you hear you.

00:35:57.000 Merry Christmas.

00:35:58.000 Well, thank you for making the time.

00:36:00.000 I want to, and I'm sure we'll get to Nick Fuentes if you watch the interview.

00:36:05.000 I want to give you the ability off the bat some rapid fire.

00:36:09.000 These are not trick questions.

00:36:10.000 They are yes or no because I saw this clip on Pierce Morgan and I think it's funny.

00:36:16.000 The Wajahada, whatever, prick who said this about you.

00:36:21.000 I want to give people the context first.

00:36:23.000 Listen, I've been in this for a long time.

00:36:24.000 Jillian, I know you're just discovering this.

00:36:26.000 Congratulations.

00:36:27.000 I think I've also been a little bit more.

00:36:28.000 Let me just finish.

00:36:29.000 I let you say a lot of people, stupid, reckless things about Muslims.

00:36:35.000 Would you like to say one?

00:36:36.000 That's 20,000 people.

00:36:38.000 Jillian, Jillian, you are by your own admission, are a white nationalist.

00:36:44.000 By your own admission, that's what you are, a white nationalist.

00:36:46.000 You admitted it?

00:36:47.000 I'm a white nationalist.

00:36:48.000 You know what I'm Arab, right?

00:36:49.000 The number of people who are Syrian and Lebanese and Turkish.

00:36:53.000 Everyone who said it, I didn't say it.

00:36:54.000 That's why I was shocked.

00:36:56.000 When did I say I was a white nationalist?

00:36:59.000 You're not a white nationalist?

00:37:00.000 There was a.

00:37:01.000 Okay, wasn't there a clip that said you were a white nationalist?

00:37:03.000 You're not a white nationalist?

00:37:06.000 No.

00:37:09.000 So I did, I always do my research and I try to be as charitable as humanly possible to anyone who comes on the show.

00:37:14.000 I couldn't find any evidence, but just to clear the deck here, Jillian Michaels, are you in fact a white nationalist?

00:37:21.000 No, I am not a white nationalist.

00:37:24.000 Okay.

00:37:24.000 All right.

00:37:24.000 I'm just marking that down for my own edification.

00:37:27.000 You did mention that you were Arab.

00:37:28.000 So the follow-up, of course, Jillian Michaels, do you hate the Jews?

00:37:32.000 I actually happen to have one grandparent who was a Russian Jew that ran from the Nazis.

00:37:39.000 So I'm a bit of a hybrid and I do not hate the Jews.

00:37:43.000 Does not hate Jews.

00:37:45.000 Okay.

00:37:45.000 I noticed you said Turkish there.

00:37:48.000 Part Turkish. 0.89

00:37:49.000 Do you deny the Armenian genocide?

00:37:51.000 How about that?

00:37:52.000 I do not.

00:37:53.000 No.

00:37:54.000 All right.

00:37:54.000 Good enough for me.

00:37:55.000 I think we got it out of the way.

00:37:56.000 Jillian.

00:37:57.000 Where did he get that from?

00:37:58.000 What a prick.

00:38:00.000 Well, I think he got it.

00:38:02.000 He got it from a CNN clip where we were debating whether or not all of MAGA is racist, which kind of leads us into the conversation we're going to have.

00:38:16.000 But you know that everyone gets smeared with the, you're a racist, you're a white nationalist.

00:38:21.000 If you voted for Trump, if you're America first.

00:38:23.000 And what I was trying to point out, or what I did point out, and then it got manipulated, is that, first of all, white people were one of the first races to fight to end slavery.

00:38:39.000 350,000 Union soldiers died to end slavery.

00:38:46.000 Slavery has existed for thousands of years.

00:38:49.000 And what Wajahat may not know is Muslims, in fact, enslaved million-plus white Europeans. 0.94

00:38:58.000 Every single ethnicity is a whip in the chains. 1.00

00:39:02.000 They still do.

00:39:05.000 I was trying to get to a place where we could establish that not all white people are bad.

00:39:10.000 And my bigger concern, which I know you take umbrage with, is that if you demonize all white people in this way, it is going to lead them into the Nyquists of the world, which I know you don't think are bad. 0.99

00:39:23.000 I happen to think is quite scary.

00:39:25.000 No, no, I don't think that.

00:39:26.000 I don't take umbrage with that statement.

00:39:28.000 I agree first off with the first half of that statement: that if you demonize white people, yeah, completely.

00:39:33.000 And that's where I think we maybe have a miscommunication.

00:39:36.000 I'm not concerned with driving anyone into anyone's arms outside of the parameters of truth.

00:39:42.000 I would say that some of those people on that panel are incredibly radical.

00:39:46.000 And I find it pretty nuts that sometimes people say, I'll platform this person, not platform this person.

00:39:52.000 And what I want to always do is be as charitable to the person expressing a view as possible.

00:39:56.000 For example, the way that guy did it.

00:39:58.000 That's dishonest, right?

00:39:59.000 Him saying, hey, you white nationalists, it's a way of poisoning the well.

00:40:03.000 And I don't want to do that.

00:40:04.000 And that's where, if you want to say, take umbrage, the idea that people need to disavow someone wholesale as opposed to understanding the why so that I can present a better case as to why not.

00:40:15.000 And that brings us to, I mean, I know you tweeted at me, and this seems silly.

00:40:20.000 If you want to go ahead and speak, I was going to read it so I could give you the floor.

00:40:23.000 Go ahead, please.

00:40:24.000 No, no, by all means.

00:40:25.000 You're absolutely right.

00:40:26.000 Go ahead.

00:40:26.000 You wrote that if you'd spent five minutes on Google at S. Crowder, that's my handle there because Stephen Crowder's taken, you'd see I've never claimed to be a conservative.

00:40:34.000 Fair enough.

00:40:35.000 I've always said I'm a moderate who happens to enjoy the company of conservatives and prefers the way they govern over progressives.

00:40:40.000 Fair enough, I agree.

00:40:42.000 And if you only trust the concerns of established conservatives, well, Charlie Kirk was fairly adamant.

00:40:47.000 There's no place for Fuentes in conservatism to address the rest of your clipped montage.

00:40:51.000 And I do want to get to that.

00:40:52.000 My early vote was for Kennedy because Americans' health has always been my priority.

00:40:56.000 But that's not the point.

00:40:57.000 This isn't ideological.

00:40:58.000 It's about basic decency.

00:41:00.000 The only thing I'll answer and give you the floor is: let me ask you plainly: you're comfortable with the claim that, quote, women want to be raped.

00:41:06.000 There's no statistic, moral framework, or political philosophy, philosophy that validates that.

00:41:11.000 None.

00:41:12.000 That's the only one I'll respond to.

00:41:14.000 I would say, of course, there is not being raped by Elon Omar's brother in an alleyway, unless you're Elon Omar.

00:41:20.000 I'm talking about sexually aggressive or dominant males.

00:41:23.000 It's a replicatable study.

00:41:24.000 That was the one issue where I want to be as charitable as possible, going, That's the context there.

00:41:28.000 And then you said, as I told John John.

00:41:30.000 For you, it is.

00:41:31.000 It's not his context at all.

00:41:34.000 And you did say that you've never heard him say it.

00:41:36.000 So I actually pulled it for you so you can hear it for the first time.

00:41:39.000 Well, I've never heard him say wholesale, and I asked him about it.

00:41:42.000 So I've heard him say that phrase.

00:41:43.000 Are you ready?

00:41:44.000 Here you go.

00:41:45.000 I've heard him say that phrase.

00:41:46.000 Yeah.

00:41:47.000 A lot of women want to be raped. 1.00

00:41:49.000 And when I say raped, I mean like, that sounds bad when I say it like that.

00:41:54.000 But there's like a lot of women that really want a guy to beat the shit out of them. 1.00

00:42:00.000 But also, they have to pretend, but part of it is they have to pretend like they don't.

00:42:05.000 Okay.

00:42:06.000 So first of all, let's address the study that you reference.

00:42:11.000 I happen to know a lot about this study.

00:42:13.000 I've covered it in numerous podcasts.

00:42:15.000 My mom has her doctorate in psychoanalysis, so I'm familiar with it.

00:42:19.000 First of all, every single woman in the study came forward and said, in reality, I would never want this to happen.

00:42:26.000 Of course.

00:42:26.000 There's also a very big difference between fantasy.

00:42:30.000 Fantasy is consent.

00:42:32.000 Fantasy is: I choose the person, I choose the place, I choose the time.

00:42:36.000 Rape is not.

00:42:38.000 You said women want a dominant male. 0.97

00:42:41.000 First of all, want is not consent.

00:42:45.000 That's not rape. 1.00

00:42:47.000 And a dominant male is not a male that beats the shit out of them, Stephen.

00:42:52.000 And I don't understand why you want to defend this.

00:42:56.000 Oh, I'll tell you why.

00:42:58.000 Because I've spoken with him about it, asked him about it.

00:43:00.000 And I think the idea that here's why, 50 Shades of Gray.

00:43:04.000 In other words, when you look at what women, you know, in the context of that study, which is the context that he was discussing, he didn't cite the study, but I think it's pretty clear.

00:43:12.000 And I need to be charitable towards him.

00:43:13.000 Look, I disagree with him on so many other things.

00:43:15.000 The context.

00:43:16.000 Women want the shit out of that. 1.00

00:43:18.000 Yeah.

00:43:19.000 Yes.

00:43:19.000 Actually, it's very poorly worded.

00:43:22.000 But that's not him saying you should go out.

00:43:23.000 Do you believe that Nick Fuentes is saying you should go commit a felony and commit violent rape?

00:43:27.000 You believe that?

00:43:28.000 Yes.

00:43:29.000 Okay, I don't.

00:43:30.000 And ready?

00:43:31.000 Here's why I think so.

00:43:32.000 Another one for you, just in case there's many of these, but in case you've missed some of them.

00:43:36.000 And repeat after me.

00:43:38.000 I will kill, rape, and die for Nicholas J. Fuentes.

00:43:43.000 We could go on all day with these.

00:43:45.000 Well, let me give you one for me.

00:43:46.000 I've said I would lie, cheat, maim, steal whatever it takes to save the lives of my children.

00:43:51.000 That's rhetoric.

00:43:52.000 Okay, but Stephen, he's not referencing protecting kids.

00:43:58.000 No, it's a silly creed.

00:44:00.000 I mean, there's nothing funny about it.

00:44:02.000 There's nothing funny about it at all.

00:44:04.000 Who's the butt of that joke?

00:44:06.000 Not only, there's so many problems with this.

00:44:10.000 His Groypers actually carry this out with regard to they were going after Piers Morgan's 13-year-old daughter saying they were going to rape her. 0.99

00:44:20.000 Like, come on, Stephen.

00:44:22.000 Of course, that's horrible.

00:44:23.000 But let's go back to what is it worth discussing.

00:44:25.000 Saying you need to disavow person X for a very uncharitable view that most people understood and they can agree or disagree.

00:44:33.000 Then you can't get to the areas where you actually disagree.

00:44:35.000 For example, like global jewelry, where I disagree with him.

00:44:38.000 And I was able to say, I think that Islamic immigration is a bigger threat. 1.00

00:44:41.000 What I don't want to do is exactly what Pierce Morgan did in interviewing him, which drove people into the arms of Nick because he presented as far more reasonable than Pierce, or attack him or his audience, these young men, over something that's clearly out of context and not meant to be taken literally.

00:44:57.000 To give you an idea, yesterday we had Cardi B's new album dropped, Cap, Circumcised Ass Pussy, because she was performing in Riyadh.

00:45:04.000 It's a joke.

00:45:05.000 That's disgusting.

00:45:06.000 I agree with you.

00:45:07.000 I actually just had this conversation with Tom McDonald about the fact that Cardi B has become a role model for 12-year-old girls.

00:45:16.000 And there's got to be something behind that because it's just so absolutely insane and insidious.

00:45:21.000 But that's a separate issue.

00:45:23.000 And I also find that disgusting.

00:45:24.000 But it's not about sexual violence.

00:45:27.000 And here's another concern of mine is that, you know, you got a group of young boys.

00:45:33.000 Okay.

00:45:33.000 I have a 13-year-old son.

00:45:36.000 And I know you, I believe you have kids.

00:45:37.000 And forgive me, I haven't done my homework on that part, but I believe that you do.

00:45:41.000 You've just said, like, I would do all kinds of stuff to protect them.

00:45:44.000 Okay.

00:45:45.000 I cannot tell you how much time I have spent, my brother has spent, my business partner, who's my closest friend has spent, explaining to my son that no means no.

00:45:59.000 So that when he is with a young girl, just hold on, and he hears Nick Fuentes in his mind going, no, really, actually, she wants this.

00:46:06.000 No, really, she wants you to beat the shit out of her. 1.00

00:46:08.000 No, really keep going.

00:46:10.000 And he ends up in jail.

00:46:12.000 Or God forbid some misguided kid who ends up with my daughter one day and she decides she doesn't want to continue. 1.00

00:46:21.000 This is not only is it repulsive messaging, I find it exceptionally dangerous.

00:46:26.000 Yeah.

00:46:27.000 So, and I would agree with you in principle, but you added there, no, really keep going.

00:46:32.000 What I heard from the clip that you played, and to be fair, you said I played a clip out of context as far as a montage.

00:46:38.000 As far as I know, this is the only show that always links to entire clips and references.

00:46:43.000 I don't know if you do that with your show.

00:46:44.000 We have a bibliography every day.

00:46:45.000 It takes hours of work.

00:46:47.000 So we don't do that.

00:46:48.000 And I wanted to be very much fair.

00:46:49.000 I think you're kind of doing that.

00:46:51.000 And you just added, and no, no, really keep going.

00:46:54.000 I didn't hear him say that.

00:46:55.000 I heard him say, yeah, absolutely.

00:46:56.000 He did.

00:46:56.000 He said they have to pretend like they don't want you to.

00:47:00.000 That's what I'm referring to.

00:47:02.000 Yeah.

00:47:02.000 If we change one thing, right, in the context of male-female sexual dynamics, I think that it's very understandable.

00:47:08.000 And I wouldn't wholesale disavow someone because my question is, do you think that blankly disavowing people, which I don't do, I disagree with views across the board.

00:47:17.000 I've had communists, I've had imams who've called for my death on the show.

00:47:21.000 I didn't have him back, to be clear, on the show.

00:47:22.000 I was like, oh, he really wants to kill me.

00:47:24.000 Probably won't have him back.

00:47:26.000 And I will give them the same respect.

00:47:28.000 Yeah, not a great idea.

00:47:30.000 I will give them all the same respect.

00:47:31.000 Do you think that blankly disavowing a person is better than clarifying their statements and understanding where they come from so that you can present a case as to why not?

00:47:42.000 Understand the why so you can explain why not.

00:47:45.000 That's my view, and we may disagree.

00:47:47.000 Okay, first of all, when you disavow someone, you deny responsibility for it and acceptance of it.

00:47:55.000 Right.

00:47:55.000 It's not saying you can't talk to that person, which you're like, Jillian Michaels is trying to tell me who I can talk to.

00:48:01.000 That didn't happen.

00:48:03.000 Jillian Michaels is trying to tell, you know, is trying to cancel, I don't know, A, B, C, or D. Also didn't happen.

00:48:10.000 But when you platform someone like this, first of all, disavowing, I do think is important with somebody who says things like, I mean, this is so insane.

00:48:20.000 Women shouldn't be allowed to vote. 1.00

00:48:22.000 Women are whores who shouldn't be in politics, who calls JD Vance a race traitor for marrying an Indian woman. 1.00

00:48:30.000 Yes, I would disavow that.

00:48:32.000 And what I mean by that is the literal definition of the word, which is, this is not a part of who I am.

00:48:39.000 Now, if you want to understand him, that's absolutely up to you.

00:48:43.000 And that's a very different conversation.

00:48:45.000 And if you feel like you can effectively cross-examine him, which honestly, Stephen, I don't think you did.

00:48:54.000 I think that you gave him the layups like you gave me.

00:48:58.000 And then that was it.

00:48:59.000 I think you led the witness.

00:49:01.000 And it's like, did you watch the two-hour interview?

00:49:03.000 I watched the whole freaking two and a half-hour interview.

00:49:07.000 Yeah.

00:49:08.000 So I watched the whole thing.

00:49:09.000 You want to talk about which part of it?

00:49:12.000 Like, the Stalin piece.

00:49:14.000 Like, you want to talk about that one?

00:49:15.000 Yeah.

00:49:16.000 Yeah, we absolutely can.

00:49:18.000 But before that, why?

00:49:19.000 And this is what I'm trying to maybe provide some perspective on, because you've had this happen with you going on Matt Walsh's show.

00:49:26.000 And you'll have the same thing appearing here.

00:49:29.000 And I've said things.

00:49:29.000 I wasn't on Matt Walsh's show.

00:49:31.000 He was kind enough to come on mine.

00:49:33.000 Sorry, when you sat down with Matt Walsh, people said, okay, you're sitting down.

00:49:38.000 You're a traitor, right?

00:49:39.000 People in the lesbian community would say that. 1.00

00:49:42.000 People will say you're sitting down with a Nazi with me.

00:49:44.000 People said that about Donald Trump.

00:49:46.000 So the tactic that the left uses is you need to make really clear that that person isn't you and disavow them.

00:49:53.000 And that, by proxy, falsely sets a premise that there's any association.

00:49:58.000 I don't have any association with your worldview any more than I do with Nick Fuentes or Imam Shoudry or the communists I sit down with.

00:50:05.000 Well, I wouldn't disavow you.

00:50:06.000 I would disagree.

00:50:07.000 I would disagree.

00:50:08.000 That's my approach.

00:50:09.000 I think what we're doing is we're arguing over semantics.

00:50:13.000 When you disavow someone, you're saying, I don't agree.

00:50:16.000 I don't condone.

00:50:18.000 That is the literal definition of the word.

00:50:21.000 And I personally think it's important that if the right ever, I mean, we can talk about what's going on with this.

00:50:30.000 This is being weaponized against the right very effectively.

00:50:35.000 And, you know, we could talk all about that.

00:50:37.000 But at the end of the day, if you agree with him, that's one thing.

00:50:42.000 If you don't agree with him, I would strongly suggest you say that.

00:50:48.000 And I've watched some of your things.

00:50:51.000 And can I respond to that?

00:50:52.000 I would strongly suggest.

00:50:53.000 And this is one thing when you say it's been used against the right.

00:50:56.000 And I hear that a lot.

00:50:57.000 And here's the thing: whether it's Kanye West, whether it's Nala Ray, who now has a mission's work or sorry, a ministry, people who are new, I know you don't claim to be a conservative.

00:51:07.000 People who are new to a fundamental worldview, who maybe don't have an understanding of it, should refrain from telling men who they should disavow or who should be permitted and who shouldn't.

00:51:18.000 I think it's more productive to listen for a while before you take the pulpit.

00:51:22.000 And that is my perspective.

00:51:24.000 I've listened for quite some time and I appreciate your perspective.

00:51:27.000 What about the conservative?

00:51:28.000 Since 2024, Jillian, I mean, that's when you said you voted for Trump, and you kind of compared him a little bit to Hitler after the election.

00:51:34.000 So I wouldn't say that you're very experienced.

00:51:36.000 When would I compare Trump to Hitler after the 2024 election?

00:51:40.000 After him winning, I could find it.

00:51:42.000 You had a quote where, and again, I can clarify this, where you said, absolutely find it.

00:51:46.000 And I went to the inauguration.

00:51:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:51:48.000 And I, well, it was taken out of context, then I guess, by people saying that you compared him to Hitler.

00:51:53.000 I never compared Trump to Hitler.

00:51:54.000 That did not happen.

00:51:55.000 And I'm also not a white nationalist.

00:51:57.000 I know you're not a white nationalist.

00:51:58.000 I know you're not a white nationalist.

00:52:00.000 In 2016, I absolutely thought that he was.

00:52:03.000 And I've been very clear about that.

00:52:05.000 And I thought that he was Hitlerian. 0.90

00:52:08.000 Oh, okay.

00:52:09.000 And sorry, I was.

00:52:10.000 And I have come forward and said how I was misguided and misled and had believed Russia, Russia, Russia, and all these different things.

00:52:16.000 In 2020, I didn't vote because I started to see some very scary things on the left.

00:52:23.000 And I really didn't know which was the better choice at that time because Biden was presenting himself as a moderate.

00:52:30.000 And then I was like, you know what?

00:52:31.000 I'm sitting this one out.

00:52:32.000 That's my vote.

00:52:33.000 I don't really know which one of these is a better choice.

00:52:36.000 And then in 2024, by that time, over the course of four years, I'd been paying pretty close attention and I felt that Trump was a better choice.

00:52:45.000 Now, obviously, I leaned more into Kennedy, and we can get into why.

00:52:49.000 And I probably would have been more for DeSantis.

00:52:52.000 I'm being honest.

00:52:52.000 I lived in Florida for three years.

00:52:54.000 I think he's doing a pretty good job over there.

00:52:58.000 A less divisive character, which makes it easier to defend some of these points, which, you know, maybe you think, I think DeSantis would have done a good job.

00:53:08.000 So, yeah.

00:53:09.000 I think there's a good governor.

00:53:10.000 And I do stand corrected.

00:53:12.000 It was 2016.

00:53:13.000 Like you said, that's the quote I'm remembering where you said something about when Hitler's elected, like, yeah, he's batshit crazy, but let's just see what he's going to do. 0.94

00:53:20.000 Like, I can't.

00:53:21.000 I'm not there.

00:53:22.000 I'm not going to go on board.

00:53:23.000 That was, so to be fair, that was a comparison, just to be clear of Trump and Hitler.

00:53:28.000 That was a while ago.

00:53:28.000 It's 2016.

00:53:29.000 But that was a Hitlerian comparison.

00:53:31.000 Years ago.

00:53:32.000 But you're like, after the election, that's this year.

00:53:36.000 So it's like 2016, right?

00:53:38.000 Yeah.

00:53:38.000 I understand, but there's been a complete evolution.

00:53:41.000 So you're saying, like, you're new to this, and you just said this.

00:53:43.000 It's like, and I'm just illustrating an eight-year journey that you've gotten incorrect.

00:53:48.000 Well, no, hold on a second.

00:53:49.000 But 2020, you didn't vote.

00:53:51.000 And then you said Donald Trump was a lesser of two evils.

00:53:53.000 And I know that you've said you're not conservative, so that's fair.

00:53:56.000 But then advising conservatives on what they need to do, I mean, that's what I would say is you want to talk about used against the right.

00:54:03.000 I mean, feminism is responsible for the failures of almost all the ills that we deal with with Western civilization and the reason that young Gen Z men voted for Trump. 1.00

00:54:12.000 It's not taxes.

00:54:14.000 And they're not big fans of people who are new to it saying, hey, sorry, go ahead.

00:54:18.000 I think it's a myriad of issues.

00:54:20.000 There are a few, but that's a big one.

00:54:22.000 That's a really big one.

00:54:25.000 I think also, Stephen, there's a U-shaped curve with everything, right?

00:54:30.000 So you go in from women can't vote to women are completely emasculating men.

00:54:37.000 Of course, both are wrong.

00:54:39.000 I'm sure we can agree on that.

00:54:41.000 No.

00:54:41.000 And there's a goldie luck.

00:54:43.000 You don't think you think women shouldn't be able to vote? 0.99

00:54:45.000 I don't think that it's wrong to say that women are emasculating men. 0.99

00:54:49.000 And if you were to talk about the 19th Amendment, I would ask you, why do you think the vast majority of women were against women's suffrage back then?

00:54:58.000 We can get into another show on that one.

00:55:01.000 No, I think it's important because that's the context because I don't want to do it.

00:55:04.000 You're saying you don't think women should be able to vote.

00:55:06.000 What does that have to do with anything?

00:55:08.000 I think women should be able to vote. 1.00

00:55:10.000 You don't?

00:55:10.000 No, I don't think that as long as selective service exists, a draft exists.

00:55:15.000 I think that only those in the draft should vote.

00:55:17.000 So if women want the draft, sure. 1.00

00:55:19.000 If women want equal rights, absolutely. 0.90

00:55:22.000 There was a period of time in this country where men couldn't vote because it was a privilege, not a right, that they had to fulfill certain obligations that women didn't. 0.90

00:55:30.000 For example, the draft, for example, being property owners, for example, bucket duty mandatory.

00:55:36.000 Yes, we do.

00:55:38.000 We have a current ongoing draft?

00:55:40.000 Yeah, we have selective service where if I don't register for it, if an American male doesn't register for it, that's a crime.

00:55:47.000 And you forego your vote, but women don't have to. 1.00

00:55:49.000 So the context, the point, let me just finish the point.

00:55:52.000 The point is the context of, hey, look, this is why there's a problem with the 19th Amendment.

00:55:57.000 It was a very large vote buying scam early on.

00:56:00.000 Now, we discuss it in full context on the show.

00:56:03.000 I've created a five-point solution on who should be allowed to vote.

00:56:07.000 The shorthand, the bumper sticker, women shouldn't vote, is something that I wouldn't agree with wholesale as a statement. 0.95

00:56:14.000 But when people use that to then tar and feather someone's entire reputation as though their views are completely unreasonable, that's what the left does.

00:56:22.000 So yes, most women wouldn't vote if we reformed voting back to the way it was throughout all of humanity. 1.00

00:56:27.000 But a lot of men wouldn't vote either.

00:56:31.000 Okay, well, we may need a separate show for that topic.

00:56:34.000 I obviously disagree with you.

00:56:36.000 There are many reasons I disagree with you.

00:56:38.000 That's not the only reason people are taking umbrage with Nick Fuentes.

00:56:42.000 And since your concern is a woman telling you, you know, hey, this is alarming. 0.98

00:56:48.000 I didn't actually tell you, and I suggested it as a strategy for conservatives.

00:56:52.000 There are plenty of male conservatives who feel this way.

00:56:56.000 Many.

00:56:57.000 Feel which way, just to be clear.

00:56:59.000 That feel Nick Fuentes should be disavowed.

00:57:02.000 Very famously, Charlie Kirk, for example, called him vermin and vile.

00:57:07.000 So Charlie's a male conservative.

00:57:09.000 Let's take me out of the equation.

00:57:11.000 He was wrong?

00:57:14.000 I'm not Charlie Kirk.

00:57:18.000 That's true.

00:57:18.000 So Charlie Kirk can do whatever.

00:57:19.000 Yeah, Charlie Kirk can do whatever he wants.

00:57:22.000 What are you telling me?

00:57:24.000 No.

00:57:24.000 But I'm telling you, many people partially, I should say, yes.

00:57:28.000 Men are very tired of young men if you want to reach them because you're talking about reaching people.

00:57:32.000 The reason that I address the 19th Amendment and the quotes is because you took two examples, right, to be clear.

00:57:37.000 Two examples.

00:57:38.000 You said, for example, there's a U curve, and you said that women shouldn't be allowed to vote. 0.54

00:57:43.000 And we go to women are emasculating men, right? 1.00

00:57:45.000 You said, and both of those are wrong.

00:57:47.000 And I just wanted to be clear because I think what happens a lot is people soften their views and people have accused Nick of doing that.

00:57:53.000 I want to make it really clear that I'm not doing that.

00:57:55.000 I don't think that either one of those, if you take the context in which they're taken, are impermissible views.

00:58:01.000 I don't think you're softening your views at all.

00:58:03.000 No, no, I definitely am.

00:58:05.000 I mean, yeah, I have views that would be significantly to the right, obviously, of your own.

00:58:11.000 And I think we can disagree in understanding the why.

00:58:14.000 Women telling men what to do and how to be men, which has been going on for a long time, is a problem. 1.00

00:58:19.000 You're going to turn people off because that's why young Gen Z men broke away from the Democrat Party. 0.99

00:58:24.000 It's a huge reason why, a huge reason why, too, with Hispanic men.

00:58:27.000 You cannot separate feminism and LGBTQAIP and Latinx.

00:58:33.000 They're all one and part of the same agenda of breaking down gender norms. 1.00

00:58:36.000 That's why I was addressing it.

00:58:38.000 Now we can move on to the next point.

00:58:40.000 First of all, I never told men anything.

00:58:42.000 I suggested that the conservative movement say that there is no room for these ideas in it.

00:58:53.000 So as for being a role model for young boys, that's not something I've ever tried to do because I think it's counterintuitive.

00:59:02.000 I made quite a long video about that, actually, which is why I am hopeful that men in positions of influence send good messages to young boys.

00:59:16.000 I feel that Charlie did that.

00:59:18.000 I feel that Tom McDonald does that.

00:59:20.000 Both men, of course, that have been called all the things they call Nick Fuentes.

00:59:24.000 But I've done kind of a deep dive on both and see zero evidence of it.

00:59:28.000 And quite zero evidence of what?

00:59:32.000 Evidence of Charlie being a racist.

00:59:33.000 I don't believe he's a racist.

00:59:35.000 I don't think Tom McDonald's a racist.

00:59:37.000 No, I agree with you on, yeah, I agree with you on that.

00:59:39.000 I don't think that's what we're talking about.

00:59:41.000 But the left called them Nazis and racists.

00:59:43.000 That's my point, though.

00:59:45.000 And the left demanded that people disavow them.

00:59:47.000 And that's like, so why would the Jillian Michaels standard be the only applicable one? 0.65

00:59:51.000 As opposed to disagree with views, but talk, I would interview Hitler. 0.97

00:59:55.000 This isn't a Jillian Michaels standard.

00:59:57.000 This is a racist, not racist.

00:59:59.000 There's no Jillian Michaels standard.

01:00:02.000 Charlie was not a racist.

01:00:04.000 Nick Fuentes.

01:00:05.000 That's the Gillian Michaels standard, though.

01:00:07.000 We agree.

01:00:08.000 But the left doesn't.

01:00:09.000 But you say that marrying an Indian woman makes you a race traitor.

01:00:13.000 That's my standard of racism.

01:00:16.000 So when you say that you want to live in an all-white country, that's not racism?

01:00:22.000 No.

01:00:23.000 This is the moving the goalpost.

01:00:26.000 No, no, hold on a second.

01:00:27.000 Don't move the goalpost, Jillian. 0.83

01:00:28.000 You said that's not racist.

01:00:30.000 Half the country said that Charlie Kirk was a racist and a Nazi to the point where not a single vigil, memorial, could be attended without rampant vandalism and desecration.

01:00:42.000 So that is the Jillian Michaels standard, right?

01:00:45.000 He's not racist, and it's my standard as well.

01:00:48.000 I would hope that you wouldn't want the standard of the left, of people who don't share your values, applied to you wholesale.

01:00:54.000 What I would say to those people on the left is, hey, why don't you talk with Charlie?

01:00:58.000 Why don't you actually find out why and see if he's a racist?

01:01:01.000 They don't because they say we need to disavow all racism.

01:01:05.000 And having been here a long time, done this for a long time, and yours truly has been accused of all those things as well.

01:01:10.000 I think it's important to understand why if you plan or have any hope to present a case as to why not.

01:01:17.000 Well, let me address that.

01:01:19.000 Okay.

01:01:19.000 I listened to all of the accusations that they made about Charlie and I investigated them and watched them in context.

01:01:26.000 So when you're saying, oh, you know, he's got a problem with the Civil Rights Act, and then you imply it's because he doesn't want black people to have equal access or the ability to vote.

01:01:36.000 That's in fact not true.

01:01:38.000 And he said that very clearly and then explained what his concerns were with the Civil Rights Act and talked about how it allows men and women's sports and men and women's bathrooms.

01:01:47.000 And we could get into all of that.

01:01:48.000 But when you accuse someone of something they didn't actually do, that's a very different thing.

01:01:54.000 When you watch Nick in context, it's pretty darn clear.

01:01:58.000 So do you mean doing like, Jillian, to be fair, doing what you just did?

01:02:02.000 What did I just do?

01:02:04.000 Explain to me again, because what you just said is Nick wants an exclusively white country, an all-white or only white country.

01:02:10.000 What was your word?

01:02:12.000 And then you interview him and you go, I'm going to give you a layup.

01:02:15.000 Do you want to live in an all-honest?

01:02:16.000 But do you mean what you just did?

01:02:19.000 Because Nick has been very clear that he doesn't think that America needs to be an all-white country. 0.96

01:02:23.000 He's also been very clear that he thinks it does.

01:02:26.000 No.

01:02:26.000 And he's playing a dude.

01:02:28.000 Yes, he has.

01:02:28.000 No, he hasn't.

01:02:30.000 He has said that preserving racial characteristics of America is good.

01:02:33.000 Here's where I disagree with him.

01:02:34.000 I think that racial characteristics are secondary to value characteristics.

01:02:38.000 I think sometimes race or country is shorthand for culture.

01:02:42.000 For example, I don't think we need H-1Bs and a bunch of Indian immigrants because I don't want the United States to look like India. 1.00

01:02:48.000 So I will say Indian immigrants.

01:02:50.000 But he has been very clear that he doesn't think it should be an all-white country, but that he believes, and I disagree with him on this, that preserving racial characteristics of America should be a primary goal.

01:03:01.000 So you just did what they did with Charlie Kirk.

01:03:03.000 It's something he didn't say.

01:03:04.000 There are plenty of interviews where he says these things.

01:03:08.000 And what he does is he plays a duel game.

01:03:11.000 And, you know, you went after Coleman Hughes for calling this out, but he's absolutely right.

01:03:17.000 How did I go after Coleman Hughes?

01:03:19.000 You're like, Coleman Hughes is accusing you of saying one thing here and saying another thing there, but he works for Barry Weiss, so therefore none of this is valid.

01:03:26.000 And it's like, absolutely valid.

01:03:28.000 Yeah, you did.

01:03:30.000 I said he accuses you and he works for Barry Weiss, so nothing he says is valid.

01:03:34.000 I said that.

01:03:34.000 Your implication of the fact that he works for Barry Weiss, so let's take it all with a grain of salt.

01:03:39.000 So why would you bring that up if your whole point was, you know, Coleman accused me?

01:03:45.000 Because you asked a question.

01:03:46.000 Do you want me to answer?

01:03:46.000 Because we do this.

01:03:47.000 I think it's important.

01:03:48.000 I mean, I wasn't done giving you that Coleman is right.

01:03:51.000 But you asked me why I asked it.

01:03:53.000 And I'd like to answer so that I could specifically call him on and box him in with no wiggle room.

01:04:00.000 Hey, Coleman Hughes says that you have podcast Nick and Rumble Nick.

01:04:04.000 Is that what you're doing here?

01:04:06.000 I remember that's closer to what I said.

01:04:08.000 I said, so when you answer this and you say that you don't.

01:04:11.000 He didn't cross-examine at all.

01:04:13.000 He did exactly what he does, which is exactly what Coleman Hughes talks about.

01:04:18.000 Oh, oh, God, you know, I said Hitler was cool. 1.00

01:04:22.000 But now the goalposts have moved, right?

01:04:24.000 You accused Candace, sorry, Coleman, Mr. Coleman, of working for Barry Weiss. 1.00

01:04:30.000 Therefore, nothing he says is valid.

01:04:31.000 That's not what I said.

01:04:32.000 You moved it to implication.

01:04:34.000 You moved it to implication, and then you moved it to cross-examination.

01:04:38.000 And then you say, Sorry, go ahead, Julian.

01:04:39.000 There's two separate issues.

01:04:40.000 There's two separate issues.

01:04:41.000 Sure.

01:04:42.000 Number one, you brought up Coleman, and then you went on to say, but he works for Barry Weiss.

01:04:47.000 And the implication there very clearly was like, so I don't know that I could trust his intentions when it comes to you.

01:04:52.000 But what did you mean?

01:04:54.000 Okay, no problem.

01:04:54.000 What did you mean?

01:04:55.000 Well, the Barry Weiss thing was a joke, but I don't like Barry Weiss.

01:04:59.000 And I do think that Barry Weiss rules with an iron fist.

01:05:01.000 And I do think you have to be biased.

01:05:02.000 But I do think that context.

01:05:04.000 Why would you bring it up in that context?

01:05:07.000 You were truly saying like.

01:05:09.000 Yeah.

01:05:11.000 So Jillian, again, I want to have the conversation in just as good faith as I can have with Nick or hopefully with people like Tucker or Candace, who I vehemently disagree with.

01:05:19.000 And I think we would share some common ground on that.

01:05:21.000 But the interrupting and the moving of the goalposts and then saying, well, he didn't say that, but that was the implication.

01:05:25.000 How about I answer for what I say?

01:05:28.000 And you answer for what you say.

01:05:29.000 And then we allow each other to finish.

01:05:32.000 Otherwise, people might perceive you as a feminist. 1.00

01:05:35.000 Oh, dear God.

01:05:39.000 Go ahead, Stephen.

01:05:41.000 Are you a feminist? 1.00

01:05:42.000 Because that's the way it's feeling right now.

01:05:43.000 What is your definition of a feminist? 1.00

01:05:45.000 I don't even understand.

01:05:46.000 If it means that women can vote. 0.99

01:05:48.000 No.

01:05:49.000 Sure.

01:05:51.000 If being a white nationalist means not all white people are bad, you got me. 0.95

01:05:56.000 Like, I think I've been pretty clear that I'm the farthest thing from a man hater.

01:06:01.000 But, you know, obviously you don't consume my content and nor do I expect you to.

01:06:06.000 If you're looking for clarification, what is your definition of a feminist then? 1.00

01:06:10.000 You want to give me that checklist?

01:06:11.000 I mean, you're acting very much the way the feminist left acts today in demanding that people behave in the way that you deem acceptable, making inferences based on implication rather than taking words and then abdicating accountability when the question comes back to you and moving the goalposts. 0.99

01:06:27.000 We're not going to get anywhere here.

01:06:28.000 Let me ask a point-blank question.

01:06:31.000 Is there any room in a space of conversation online for Nick's ideas if they diverge from other mainstream views?

01:06:41.000 My position is, yes, there's room for it, even if I disagree.

01:06:45.000 Here would be my concern with that.

01:06:47.000 And I tend to follow Victor Davis Hanson's school of thought here: is that when you mainstream somebody who has a clear agenda that I personally feel is nefarious, calling people the N-word and saying marrying somebody of another race is being a race traitor and women shouldn't vote.

01:07:09.000 I don't see a need to listen to his ideas when I can consume similar ideas from people I think are good faith actors.

01:07:21.000 And for example, like we can talk about Stalin.

01:07:24.000 I thought that was a good one.

01:07:26.000 Oh, no, I misunderstood.

01:07:29.000 I admire him because he industrialized Russia. 0.81

01:07:34.000 There's no pushback there, though.

01:07:36.000 Like, how about there is.

01:07:40.000 And we can get to that.

01:07:41.000 But what you just did, what you just said, and here's the issue, right?

01:07:44.000 For example, is there any, you just said people who say the N-word.

01:07:47.000 Let me ask you this.

01:07:49.000 Is there any context in which a white person could say the N-word and it not be a disqualifier?

01:07:55.000 To be dead honest with you, I've never used the word because I think it's gross and offensive.

01:07:59.000 I don't care.

01:07:59.000 I'm asking you, is there any context in which a white person could use it?

01:08:02.000 Do you want to run down content?

01:08:03.000 I don't think it's necessary.

01:08:04.000 No, I think it offends people.

01:08:05.000 Why?

01:08:06.000 What would be the same thing?

01:08:06.000 But I'm asking you to.

01:08:07.000 So there's no way I can give you a reason, but if you're not.

01:08:10.000 Go ahead.

01:08:11.000 Give me a reason.

01:08:12.000 But can you answer the question first?

01:08:14.000 Can you answer it?

01:08:17.000 I don't see a reason for us to use that word ever.

01:08:19.000 No.

01:08:19.000 And the context to use it is.

01:08:21.000 No, no, no.

01:08:22.000 I just want to ask the question, and I'll give you a context myself because that has been used against myself.

01:08:28.000 Change my mind on why white people should say the N-word.

01:08:30.000 Well, I didn't say white people should say the N-word.

01:08:32.000 The question was this, and I'll ask it again.

01:08:35.000 Is there a context in which a white person could use the N-word and it not be a disqualifier as far as their voice at the table?

01:08:46.000 For me personally, that's not a voice I would listen to.

01:08:49.000 It might be for you, and that's okay.

01:08:51.000 Well, you're listening to one.

01:08:53.000 Okay, that's totally fine.

01:08:54.000 And here's the context.

01:08:55.000 Because you said, again, wholesale blanket, this is why.

01:08:57.000 Just understand where I'm coming from here.

01:08:59.000 Because people will use it and they'll use it as a disqualifier.

01:09:02.000 Considering that people have used those against you for different reasons, and they've used it against me for this exact reason, well, I don't think it's acting in good faith.

01:09:10.000 I was on Pierce Morgan's show with Mark Lamont Hill, where we were talking about the use of that word.

01:09:15.000 And I said, you know, I do find it odd when we're giving words so much power.

01:09:19.000 This may be an exact word.

01:09:20.000 It's pretty damn close.

01:09:21.000 And we have an office with Jewish people in the office and people around going, yeah, have you heard that new song from Kanye?

01:09:30.000 N-word, hail Hitler. 0.89

01:09:33.000 I said, when we look at three words there, you have a noun, a verb, and another noun.

01:09:37.000 Nigga, hail Hitler. 1.00

01:09:38.000 Nigga, imbued with no power from a verb before it, it's simply used in the ether.

01:09:42.000 Hail Hitler. 0.90

01:09:43.000 Hitler is imbued with the power of the verb before it to hail, to venerate, to honor. 0.52

01:09:48.000 And I think the hail Hitler portion is far more offensive, if we're going to consider something offensive, than merely a word used by a black rapper, even if it's repeated by a white person.

01:10:01.000 In that context, is that a disqualifier?

01:10:05.000 When someone's referencing the name of a song?

01:10:08.000 In the context that I just used it, yeah.

01:10:10.000 That's not the context that he uses it.

01:10:12.000 I didn't ask that.

01:10:13.000 I'm asking, is there any context because you started with someone when someone mentions the name of a song, by the way, that's there is a if you know, if we brought somebody into the room who was a person of color, I feel that they could distinguish the difference between the GGA part of the word and the ER part of the word.

01:10:34.000 but it's not really a path I feel the need to go down or qualified to speak upon, but I am aware that many feel there is a difference to those two words.

01:10:46.000 Having said that, I don't understand why you're fighting for this.

01:10:50.000 Like, what are you fighting for?

01:10:51.000 The ability to use the, I'm so confused.

01:10:53.000 Yes.

01:10:54.000 So that women can't vote and women really want to be raped. 1.00

01:10:57.000 Like, I don't know.

01:10:57.000 And there's the mischaracterization, which is a very, very leftist way.

01:11:00.000 It's still the leftism is still in you.

01:11:02.000 Well, I asked you a question.

01:11:03.000 The reason why is because you said wholesale, I'm fighting for listening.

01:11:08.000 When you say anyone who uses the N-word and you use that as a disqualifier, and I hear, I go, well, I have in context as a wordsmith who writes jokes where it's relevant.

01:11:20.000 I don't like any phraseology, ideology, viewpoint that says any word used makes someone, which is how you framed it, makes someone disqualify.

01:11:31.000 I think that the problem is my problem.

01:11:33.000 Yeah, tell me.

01:11:36.000 Not your problem.

01:11:37.000 I said the problem.

01:11:39.000 I heard your problem, but I have bad hearing.

01:11:41.000 I said, go ahead and play it back.

01:11:44.000 Okay.

01:11:44.000 I said, I think that the problem with our conversation is that I'm focused on much bigger themes that scare me.

01:11:52.000 You're talking about using the N-word in a joke.

01:11:54.000 Like, we can argue about that all day long.

01:11:56.000 Go use the N-word in a joke.

01:11:58.000 What I'm telling you is that you've got a guy who is saying very scary things.

01:12:05.000 I'm pretty sure he means it.

01:12:06.000 That's my personal opinion.

01:12:08.000 I do think he's playing a dual game.

01:12:10.000 I think Coleman was right.

01:12:11.000 I think we've seen this pattern throughout history with the Nazis. 0.81

01:12:15.000 They ran a dual state.

01:12:16.000 Like everyone knows the playbook.

01:12:18.000 Anybody who understands history at all has seen it with the David Dukes, the Osir Arafat, Mao.

01:12:24.000 Like this is a strategy.

01:12:26.000 I personally think he's playing it.

01:12:27.000 I think Coleman's right.

01:12:28.000 I think Victor Davis Hansen is right.

01:12:31.000 I think he's being mainstreamed.

01:12:32.000 I think it's being weaponized.

01:12:34.000 And I think you're going to end up, I really do, with a Gavin Newsom as president.

01:12:40.000 And I've lived through him running California.

01:12:44.000 And, you know, I don't, I don't think it's a good thing.

01:12:47.000 We can agree on that.

01:12:48.000 Okay, well, then I think the question is, what is our agenda here?

01:12:52.000 Yeah, I can tell you what mine is.

01:12:54.000 It's to have good people run the country.

01:12:56.000 Sure.

01:12:57.000 Okay.

01:12:57.000 That's my agenda.

01:12:58.000 My agenda is for young boys not to end up in jail thinking like the girl really wants them to keep going or for some girl who says no to get raped.

01:13:07.000 Like my agenda is for young kids to not hate people of color.

01:13:10.000 This is my agenda.

01:13:12.000 Yeah.

01:13:13.000 Okay.

01:13:14.000 I don't know that you talking about using the N-word in a joke.

01:13:17.000 Like I don't, I don't, what are we doing?

01:13:19.000 It wasn't a joke.

01:13:22.000 You just said I'm a comedian and a wordsmith and I use it in jokes.

01:13:26.000 But I gave you the example of where I used it in context.

01:13:29.000 Okay.

01:13:30.000 You say greater issues at play.

01:13:32.000 And I agree with you.

01:13:32.000 Greater issues at play.

01:13:34.000 Yeah.

01:13:34.000 well no for me as well and as someone who's been here since as someone who's been here since you know 2008 2009 and the first person demonetized de-platformed right i I think that people who say this phrase, this word, this litmus test, this perspective on this issue, which by the way is very personalized.

01:13:52.000 I noticed that the disqualifiers very closely relate to yours and not those who criticize you or not even people further to the right.

01:13:59.000 Anyone who says that and doesn't understand how it will be used against them and how it has fostered and created a culture of censorship is very concerning to me.

01:14:10.000 And I don't want that to be influential on the conservative movement because it's antithetical to it.

01:14:15.000 The idea that this word bad without context, it seems that you're missing a fundamental precept that I would say to the idea of free speech, which is context does matter over content.

01:14:27.000 And we don't disqualify people for naughty words.

01:14:30.000 And that's not why I understand you're disqualifying Nick, but it would disqualify me.

01:14:34.000 Your standard would disqualify me.

01:14:36.000 And many people like me.

01:14:38.000 Anyone who uses the N-word.

01:14:39.000 That's why I addressed it.

01:14:41.000 So let me address it.

01:14:42.000 First of all, no one called for him to be canceled.

01:14:45.000 No one, so free speech, First Amendment, nobody asked for the government to get involved in his ability to speak.

01:14:50.000 And I would go against that.

01:14:53.000 No one, forgive me, no one here.

01:14:57.000 Me, I did not.

01:14:58.000 I don't support that.

01:15:00.000 I never have.

01:15:02.000 What I do recommend is that if the right would like to maintain power, they disavow, make the statement, we don't believe in these more radical ideas, like women want to be raped, or if you marry someone of a different race, you're a race traitor.

01:15:20.000 And the list could go on.

01:15:22.000 So that's my opinion.

01:15:24.000 Yeah.

01:15:25.000 I've not ever made a statement.

01:15:27.000 You asked me personally, I don't use the N-word.

01:15:30.000 I've never gone after somebody who's used it in a joke.

01:15:34.000 That's not an issue of mine.

01:15:36.000 Do I, you know, I don't really, honestly, I don't even pay attention, nor have I made a statement about it or made it an issue.

01:15:42.000 My issue is what is going on on the right.

01:15:46.000 That's where I'm at right now.

01:15:48.000 So we can go down all these rabbit holes.

01:15:49.000 Are you a fan of the people?

01:15:50.000 I don't think it's a rabbit hole.

01:15:52.000 I think you just answered it.

01:15:52.000 You haven't really paid attention.

01:15:54.000 And what I mean is a lot of young men have.

01:15:56.000 I'm not using the N-word and jokes.

01:15:57.000 No, no, no.

01:15:58.000 Again, this is from we're moving the goalpost again.

01:16:00.000 Your statement that anyone who uses the N-word, anyone who says women should be raped.

01:16:05.000 And what I am telling you is my perspective is fundamentally different.

01:16:09.000 Here's what I would say is productive.

01:16:11.000 Anyone who actually believes in racial superiority, for example, or supporting extermination, anybody, but I'm talking about what you just said, your language.

01:16:20.000 And I'm telling you why that's not going to resonate very well with I'm going to finish my phrase as though I'm able to.

01:16:26.000 Any young man who's had to play this game for a long time where they get canceled, their job is lost because they've used a word where in context should not be a disqualifier.

01:16:35.000 Or they've expressed an opinion where in context should not be a disqualifier.

01:16:38.000 No one, I have no one here said that.

01:16:42.000 I've never said it.

01:16:43.000 Point me to the part where I said, if you use the N-word, you should be disqualified.

01:16:47.000 Point me to that.

01:16:48.000 I'm telling you personally.

01:16:49.000 Here's an answer to my question.

01:16:52.000 Here's my answer to your question.

01:16:54.000 I don't use the word.

01:16:55.000 That's not an answer to the question.

01:16:57.000 What is the answer to you?

01:16:59.000 Would you like, have I called for you to be disqualified?

01:17:01.000 You've used the word.

01:17:02.000 You did preemptively.

01:17:03.000 You did preemptively.

01:17:03.000 That's why I brought it up.

01:17:04.000 Yeah.

01:17:05.000 You said these people who use the anyone who uses the N-word, that's not a voice that should be listened to, is what you said.

01:17:12.000 That's our disagreement.

01:17:14.000 Okay.

01:17:14.000 So let me antithetical to a world.

01:17:18.000 Then what I mean is in a derogatory fashion.

01:17:21.000 Forgive me.

01:17:22.000 You got me.

01:17:24.000 I mean when it's used in a derogatory and harmful fashion.

01:17:28.000 Is that better?

01:17:29.000 Forgive me for not for not clarifying that.

01:17:32.000 I take a lot of time to look into context.

01:17:35.000 And I think when Fuentes is put in context, it's worse.

01:17:40.000 Are we going to talk about any of that?

01:17:42.000 Or are you just going to try to take me down rabbit holes?

01:17:46.000 It's okay.

01:17:47.000 What are we doing here?

01:17:49.000 Well, I think establishing the terms in a foundational worldview is important if you're going to be advising other people on who should be allowed to discuss things at the table.

01:17:57.000 I don't think it's a rabbit hole when someone states in the affirmative preemptively anyone who does X. I'm glad you clarified.

01:18:03.000 It's disavowing bad ideas, like rape.

01:18:07.000 Of course.

01:18:07.000 Racism.

01:18:08.000 Rape is bad.

01:18:09.000 Racism is bad.

01:18:10.000 Anti-Semitism is bad.

01:18:11.000 Well, then you just did it.

01:18:12.000 You just disavowed it.

01:18:13.000 Yeah.

01:18:14.000 But I've done that my whole life.

01:18:16.000 So then why are you angry that I would ask you to just make that clear, even though I didn't ask you?

01:18:21.000 But in this moment, let's say I am asking you.

01:18:24.000 I am.

01:18:25.000 You got 6 million followers.

01:18:27.000 People, I've listened to you.

01:18:29.000 No, I know.

01:18:29.000 And I appreciate you've been supportive and I'm not sure.

01:18:32.000 I appreciate it.

01:18:33.000 You know, I have listened to you on quite a few different topics.

01:18:38.000 So, I mean, I guess, yeah, I kind of would want to hear you say as a guy who has significant influence that I personally have listened to you.

01:18:45.000 Like, yeah, Jill, these are bad ideas.

01:18:48.000 You know, you think he means it.

01:18:49.000 I don't think he does.

01:18:51.000 We can sit here and talk about like why you think he does and why I don't think so.

01:18:55.000 But it would just be awesome, in my opinion, for someone like yourself, even though I didn't specifically ask you to do so, to say, I don't think that we should, you know, call people who marry someone of a different color, a race trader.

01:19:10.000 Like, I'm not for it.

01:19:11.000 That's not for me.

01:19:12.000 I'm not for rape.

01:19:14.000 I'm not for we could be done here.

01:19:18.000 That's, that's really just.

01:19:20.000 Well, that was the first thing I said.

01:19:21.000 I've never, I said, disavowing ideas is actually productive and should be done.

01:19:24.000 You are disagreeing.

01:19:26.000 I didn't call you any of those things.

01:19:29.000 No, my dispute is with the idea that people should ever disavow people and not listen wholesale and preemptively set a bunch of qualifiers that sound a whole lot like Chuck Schumer's.

01:19:40.000 Disavowing ideas is good.

01:19:42.000 I do it all the time, every single day.

01:19:44.000 Never disputed.

01:19:45.000 Disavowing people wholesale, especially based on some what I would say are misleading or tangential or out of context quotes is not good because that's the game the left plays.

01:19:56.000 And I think that we need to sidestep that game completely.

01:19:59.000 It plays no role in where we are.

01:20:01.000 That's why I'm listening with you.

01:20:02.000 For example, we can have a disagreement.

01:20:04.000 I mean, this is a view that many people would find abhorrent.

01:20:07.000 I've been against same-sex marriage as long as I've been in the public eye. 0.75

01:20:10.000 Said it to Dave Rubin on my show.

01:20:12.000 You know, that used to be considered Nazi-esque.

01:20:17.000 I don't find you Nazi-esque.

01:20:19.000 There are many conservatives who feel this way.

01:20:22.000 I obviously disagree with you.

01:20:23.000 I respect your opinion.

01:20:24.000 And if we had a good faith conversation like I had with Matt Walsh, I feel confident that we could agree to disagree at the end without, you know, wishing harm upon one another.

01:20:38.000 You know, or thinking significantly less of each other.

01:20:42.000 I know you feel this way.

01:20:44.000 I would imagine from my understanding, I don't know enough about why you feel this way.

01:20:48.000 I know why Matt Walsh feels this way.

01:20:50.000 There is a religious component for many different people.

01:20:52.000 And I respect that.

01:20:54.000 And we could go down this path of gay marriage if you choose to. 0.89

01:20:58.000 But again, I have one agenda.

01:21:06.000 Maybe I guess we could wrap it.

01:21:08.000 We could take three different agendas.

01:21:09.000 One is kids don't become more tribal or racial.

01:21:15.000 That boys don't think girls want the shit beat out of them.

01:21:20.000 That good people run our country.

01:21:23.000 And at the moment, I feel like JD Vance is a better person than Gavin Newsom.

01:21:28.000 Okay.

01:21:28.000 So maybe I'm, yeah, I think you feel the same way.

01:21:31.000 I think this is going to cost him.

01:21:33.000 Okay.

01:21:34.000 So maybe you and I actually have the same agenda and just different ideas on how to get there.

01:21:40.000 And you may not want my vote and you may not want me in this tent of yours, but the reality is that to get the better guy in the oval, like we're going to have to find, like, you're going to have to accept my vote.

01:21:53.000 And I'm not asking.

01:21:55.000 Who's rejecting your vote?

01:21:57.000 I know that, listen, you're like, you don't belong here.

01:22:00.000 You're not a conservative.

01:22:00.000 Or you're a little like, don't tell us what to do.

01:22:02.000 Did I say that?

01:22:04.000 You said something like, don't tell conservatives what to do.

01:22:07.000 You're new here.

01:22:08.000 And I'm not telling conservatives what to do.

01:22:10.000 I'm trying to tell conservatives.

01:22:12.000 I think we're kind of on the same page about the bigger picture.

01:22:16.000 I'm coming at it from this angle.

01:22:18.000 And there's a lot in the math, right?

01:22:20.000 The politics in large part is math.

01:22:24.000 The math isn't math without the more moderate people.

01:22:27.000 I could be wrong.

01:22:28.000 Maybe you'll say, no, you're wrong, Jill.

01:22:29.000 We could do without all of them.

01:22:31.000 But I don't think so.

01:22:33.000 Yeah.

01:22:33.000 I don't.

01:22:34.000 I've not said that.

01:22:36.000 That's not what I'm expressing here.

01:22:38.000 And I don't think you're moderate.

01:22:43.000 What do you think I am?

01:22:45.000 I think you are very much.

01:22:46.000 I think you are very much to the right on some issues, as I understand it, like on generally, compared to most of the left on freedom of speech.

01:22:53.000 I think you're very much to the right.

01:22:55.000 The left would consider you a Nazi as it relates to transing children, unless I'm mistaken.

01:22:59.000 Right.

01:23:00.000 They would say Nazi, right? 0.89

01:23:01.000 White nationalist.

01:23:03.000 I am.

01:23:04.000 And I think that you are, I think you're very, very, not even moderate, very far left when we find ourselves at the point in the country where there would be nothing controversial about a conservative American saying, well, not only am I against same-sex marriage, but the foundational restructuring of the family where kids can be brought into a family or the world through surrogacy without a father or without a mother.

01:23:24.000 I think that a nuclear family and complementarianism is foundational.

01:23:27.000 And I think a view that doesn't believe that or adhere to that, I think is actually pretty historically radically left.

01:23:35.000 So I think you're very far right for the left on some issues and very far left.

01:23:39.000 And honestly, I would say foundationally, that is more of an issue as far as where we disagree, the chasm between where I definitely disagree, to be clear, with Nick Fuentes on global jewelry versus the threat of Islam. 0.97

01:23:51.000 So I wouldn't classify you as a moderate or a conservative.

01:23:54.000 I actually don't disagree with you, though, about the importance of a father.

01:23:57.000 I've made that very clear.

01:23:59.000 And, you know, if we were to get into my personal family, we absolutely can.

01:24:05.000 Is that the road you'd like to go down?

01:24:07.000 How I ended up with.

01:24:08.000 No, I wasn't going to ask anything personal.

01:24:10.000 I know your views.

01:24:11.000 I mean, I know I thought that same thing.

01:24:14.000 I firmly believe that fathers are, in fact, listen, just to preface this, not that I don't know if this is relevant or not, or we need to go down this path, but I was always planning on adopting.

01:24:26.000 And I figured, look, if I can give a kid that is in the developed world a path to citizenship, a shot at a life, do I wish this kid had all the, you know, a wonderful loving father?

01:24:41.000 Yes, I do.

01:24:41.000 But the reality is there are millions of these kids that need homes.

01:24:44.000 So on the continuum of disaster, never getting out of Haiti, having your organs harvested, being sold into the sex trade versus like living with a lesbian who can give you a really good life and a shot at, you know, I'm going to go with that. 0.99

01:24:59.000 Now I have wonderful, loving men in my life that I also know can provide a strong role model for my kids.

01:25:06.000 Do I think they need a dad?

01:25:07.000 Yes.

01:25:07.000 Now, my ex wanted to have her own kid.

01:25:10.000 And Stephen, I, first of all, I can't tell somebody not to do that.

01:25:14.000 And second of all, now that I have my son, I'm not sorry that she did.

01:25:19.000 And this is a conversation that he and I have together all the time because I wanted him to have a father so much so, and this is deeply personal, but I'm trying to show you that I don't disagree with you.

01:25:29.000 But in this continuum of perfect world versus where we are now, because this is kind of the reality of life.

01:25:35.000 Not everything works out perfectly.

01:25:37.000 Sure, I get that.

01:25:38.000 That, you know, I was like, at the very least, can we use somebody like very close to the family?

01:25:46.000 So the child has a father figure.

01:25:49.000 It was a huge fight.

01:25:50.000 Probably one of the top reasons that we are no longer together.

01:25:53.000 Now, having said that, I see the pain my son goes through, not having a father figure, which is why, by the way, I'm so deeply alarmed by characters like Nick Fuentes, because I see the grasping.

01:26:06.000 And, you know, he leans into Rogan.

01:26:08.000 I'm like, yeah, okay.

01:26:09.000 Sean Ryan, good.

01:26:11.000 Tom McDonald, Charlie Kirk, and you know, I'm like, dear God, please don't let him end up over there.

01:26:16.000 And fortunately, it has not happened.

01:26:19.000 And he is not a fan of Nick Fontes.

01:26:22.000 But having said that, I actually don't disagree with you.

01:26:26.000 But there are extenuating factors here.

01:26:29.000 And now, despite the fact that he is a child without a father, which really sucks, he's alive and he's the love of my life.

01:26:37.000 So I don't know what to tell you.

01:26:39.000 Well, I would say, and I agree with you.

01:26:40.000 Of course, I think there are better role models out there for young men.

01:26:44.000 I completely agree, namely men who, you know, obviously are married and raising families.

01:26:48.000 That was one of the questions that we brought up.

01:26:51.000 But I would say that screaming platitudes and issuing disqualifiers is going to drive more young men towards not just people like Nick Fuentes, but someone who I know you disagree with as well, people like Andrew Tate, where when people are presented with something that is less than authentic or a lie, which has been, by the way, largely presented through the 1960s to today, a feminist worldview, men will be driven into someone who at least is speaking some truth.

01:27:17.000 For example, the difference between male and female sexual dynamics.

01:27:19.000 So those platitudes, the not these words, not these views, will drive, and I've seen it happen, will drive people into the arms of those you fear most.

01:27:29.000 Listening and presenting a better case as to why not and applying it across the board, whether it's a communist or whether it's far right, is in my opinion, and I've seen this for a very long time, a better approach.

01:27:42.000 I don't think you did present a better case as to why not, though.

01:27:45.000 Okay.

01:27:45.000 But that's, you know.

01:27:47.000 But would you sit down with, for example, Tucker, Nick, and present that as well?

01:27:51.000 Would you sit down with them?

01:27:52.000 Listen, Tucker really hates gays.

01:27:55.000 So I don't, I don't, you know, he freaks me out a little bit.

01:27:59.000 And that's like, you know, I don't think Tucker would sit down with me.

01:28:02.000 I would sit down with Tucker.

01:28:04.000 I don't think he hates gays.

01:28:05.000 I don't think I have a lot of criticisms of Tucker.

01:28:07.000 I don't think he hates gays.

01:28:08.000 You know, like some of the, listen, some of that is a bit scary.

01:28:11.000 I'll be honest.

01:28:12.000 Some of the things he said scare me a little bit.

01:28:14.000 Or, you know, you platform a guy who I think I've never heard of this guy, Milo, to be dead honest.

01:28:20.000 And I'm not saying platform like he shouldn't.

01:28:23.000 Oh, I don't know.

01:28:23.000 I'm trying to say when you, when you, when you put forward a guy who I, I think suggested it was okay to sexualize a teenage boy as a representation for the gay community.

01:28:36.000 Like, I don't know that that's good faith acting, but okay.

01:28:40.000 Do you mean Milo or talking with Milo?

01:28:42.000 No, no, no, Milo.

01:28:43.000 I don't.

01:28:45.000 Okay.

01:28:45.000 Yeah.

01:28:46.000 No, the reason I ask, and I agree, I agree with you.

01:28:48.000 I agree with you.

01:28:48.000 He doesn't really like gays.

01:28:50.000 And I have, you know, a few things that have kind of freaked me out a little bit with regard to like how much I think he does not like them.

01:28:56.000 You know, like complimenting elements of Maduro's regime because of how he squashed LGBTQ rights.

01:29:04.000 I'm like, whoa, that's intense.

01:29:06.000 It's a little scary for me.

01:29:08.000 I've listened to his, you know, different shows on with one with Chris Moritz, I thought was brilliant about how TransInc, all the money that's going into transing kids. 0.56

01:29:17.000 I asked Chris Moritz to come and talk with me.

01:29:20.000 I mean, I've listened to his shows on Wikipedia and how the CIA is behind it.

01:29:24.000 I don't, and I've never called for him to be canceled.

01:29:28.000 You're asking me personally if I belong there.

01:29:30.000 Probably not, you know, given the things that we've just talked about.

01:29:33.000 Would I talk with him?

01:29:34.000 Sure.

01:29:35.000 I don't think he has any interest in talking with me for the reasons I've just suggested.

01:29:40.000 And I could be talking about it.

01:29:41.000 But sorry, just to clarify, who are we talking about?

01:29:44.000 Who do you think wouldn't talk with you?

01:29:45.000 Tucker, Tucker.

01:29:45.000 Sorry.

01:29:46.000 Tucker.

01:29:46.000 I'm talking about.

01:29:47.000 Okay.

01:29:48.000 So Milo, I'm very, and I don't know if you're familiar with this.

01:29:51.000 I sat down with Milo when he had a couple thousand followers.

01:29:54.000 So I had him on very early on.

01:29:55.000 It was Gamergate.

01:29:56.000 And I don't know if you're familiar with that.

01:29:57.000 That was something that was going on, which is a big reason for the rebellion, kind of the catalyst for a lot of Gen Z emails becoming conservative. 0.55

01:30:04.000 This was an example of feminists creating really, really bad video games, right? 1.00

01:30:09.000 And injecting woke ideology into video games.

01:30:11.000 And it turns out they were sleeping with some prominent reviewers.

01:30:14.000 And there was kind of an expelling of cis straight white males.

01:30:17.000 So Milo Yiannopoulos back then was reporting on this undercovered topic by the mainstream media.

01:30:24.000 That's how he sort of came to prominence.

01:30:25.000 So I had him on, gosh, 2014, 2015 discussing that.

01:30:30.000 And that's evolved very much.

01:30:31.000 Back then, he was just a gay conservative reporter.

01:30:34.000 So I'm very familiar with it.

01:30:35.000 I understand your views, why you might be concerned.

01:30:38.000 But you would sit down with Tucker.

01:30:39.000 Would you sit down with Nick and present your much more effective than mine case?

01:30:44.000 No.

01:30:45.000 You wouldn't.

01:30:47.000 Let's look at how this has gone so far.

01:30:50.000 So Tucker didn't cross-examine him the way I think many wished he would have.

01:30:57.000 In other words, we've all, I mean, Tucker is an exceptional journalist.

01:31:03.000 He's a, has a wicked intellect.

01:31:06.000 We all watched him dismantle Ted Cruz.

01:31:10.000 And it was just like, yikes.

01:31:13.000 You almost wanted it to stop.

01:31:14.000 It was such a bloodbath.

01:31:16.000 Yeah, no, I don't agree with that, but yeah.

01:31:18.000 You don't really think he did?

01:31:20.000 Okay, well, I don't think Ted Cruz did very well, no, to be clear, but I don't think that Tucker dismantled him.

01:31:25.000 No, I thought that was an example of journalism that I don't like, the gotcha.

01:31:29.000 You know, put it this way: I'm not suggesting one way or another side.

01:31:34.000 I'm saying like he went after him aggressively.

01:31:36.000 Yes.

01:31:38.000 And that's what I'm talking about, his interviewing techniques.

01:31:40.000 I didn't see him apply that to Fuentes.

01:31:43.000 And I saw Fuentes come out of that winning off of a guy with a massive platform, and Fuentes gets bigger and his messages are mainstreamed again.

01:31:54.000 Then he goes on Piers and he loses there and he plays Piers like a fiddle.

01:31:57.000 And the kid is a master rhetorician.

01:31:59.000 He's a very wait.

01:32:01.000 Who loses there?

01:32:02.000 I think Piers did.

01:32:03.000 Oh, Pierce loses.

01:32:04.000 Yes, yes.

01:32:05.000 Yeah.

01:32:05.000 I think he did.

01:32:07.000 Now, listen, I agree with you.

01:32:10.000 Okay.

01:32:10.000 I do not want you to, I'm not trying to insult you here.

01:32:14.000 I think he comes out of your interview and I think he gains a bunch of your followers.

01:32:20.000 Now, when I watched him bring up Stalin, and this is something Victor Davis Hansen talks about when he talks about Buckley, because the truth of the matter is, when I look at who could effectively, really do a good job getting to the root of what this kid really believes and what he really thinks, it's going to take an extremely erudite and sharp, arguably historian, economist, a Victor Davis-Hansen kind of character who doesn't even know that he's up to the task, has said, you know,

01:32:50.000 when I watch William F. Buckley take on characters like this, he goes, I don't even know if I could do it because if you make one mistake, the stakes are too high.

01:33:01.000 And God forbid, I make a mistake in a moment.

01:33:05.000 I personally don't want to see those messages grow.

01:33:08.000 And, you know, he brought up Stalin.

01:33:10.000 I happen to know a little bit about how to push back on that.

01:33:13.000 But the reality is, let's say I didn't.

01:33:15.000 Let's say I didn't know about the Mai G restoration in Japan to hold up an alternative path to industrialization or like the great spurt theory in Russia that the economy is actually growing better under the czar than the Bolsheviks. 0.60

01:33:28.000 Like you just sit there looking like a dumbass as this kid's like, I didn't really mean it.

01:33:32.000 I really just appreciate industrialization.

01:33:35.000 If you don't know this stuff, you're going to get, you're going to get knocked the fuck out.

01:33:40.000 And luckily, I knew a little bit of it.

01:33:42.000 It sounds like you know it, so I think you should take a crack at it.

01:33:44.000 Some of it, Steven.

01:33:45.000 Some of it, I'm not a historian.

01:33:46.000 I'm an economist.

01:33:48.000 But here's the thing: but if everyone approaches that, right, and then they sort of cloak it under, yeah, but I won't do it because I'm not good enough.

01:33:53.000 You need to be good enough, right?

01:33:54.000 So that's gatekeeping.

01:33:55.000 And there's this disqualifier, which we use words or phrases, then no one does it.

01:34:00.000 And I guess, you know, it may not be enough.

01:34:02.000 I brought up Stalin.

01:34:03.000 My question to him, and you could tell me maybe what your question would be.

01:34:06.000 Question was, I know you've said that we need a Catholic theocracy or some sort of a Christian theocracy.

01:34:12.000 I've heard the word dictatorship.

01:34:13.000 Correct me if I'm wrong.

01:34:14.000 So I would ask you since the end point, we started off with saying, you know, you admire Stalin, played the clip.

01:34:19.000 So I would ask you, since the end point is very similar to where Stalin would have us reach, just swap atheism for Catholicism or Christianity. 0.69

01:34:27.000 Would you be able to name or is there any one thing that you think America concretely should copy about Stalin's rule and/or methods to get there?

01:34:38.000 Tell me how that's not a fair question as opposed to disqualifier.

01:34:43.000 I understand.

01:34:44.000 Okay.

01:34:45.000 Then he pulls the whole like dual state of, no, it's just that I admire that Russia became an industrial power.

01:34:52.000 And when I said Hitler was cool, like, I was just kidding. 0.98

01:34:55.000 Jokes.

01:34:56.000 Like, these are not jokes.

01:34:58.000 Hate speech.

01:34:59.000 They can be.

01:35:00.000 Hate speech, what?

01:35:02.000 Satire that directly mirrors hate speech, in my opinion, is hate speech.

01:35:07.000 Generally, satire punches up.

01:35:09.000 It's clear now.

01:35:09.000 In my opinion.

01:35:11.000 In my opinion, satire punches up and people walk out less racist, not more racist.

01:35:17.000 Well, it's the same reason that people say you can't make trans jokes or you can't make racial jokes.

01:35:20.000 And by the way, I don't believe hate speech is a thing.

01:35:23.000 I just don't agree.

01:35:23.000 I think Pam Bonnie was an idiot to even use it.

01:35:25.000 I don't think hate speech is a thing.

01:35:27.000 And it's not.

01:35:29.000 My question about the Second Amendment, and this was one that was concerning where we actually found disagreement.

01:35:33.000 And frankly, some of his own fans weren't really thrilled with his answer.

01:35:38.000 I said, what I heard there, meaning his clip and in watching you is concerning because what I see communicated is your ideal utopia.

01:35:47.000 To use the word would involve a much stronger state with much more executive power.

01:35:52.000 And I agree, by the way, on the idea of executive authority being appropriate, but the end game would be a much stronger state and much softer civilian arms, softer Second Amendment rights.

01:36:03.000 It sounds a lot to me like the left saying, well, the Second Amendment was for muskets and we can just revise it.

01:36:09.000 How do we know when to decide?

01:36:11.000 And how do we decide?

01:36:13.000 We probably don't want people running around with guns anymore using one of his quotes.

01:36:17.000 Is that a fair question to delineate a difference in a worldview?

01:36:21.000 Well, first of all, I don't take umbrage with his Second Amendment positions.

01:36:26.000 I actually thought that was kind of, I know.

01:36:29.000 And you know what I thought?

01:36:30.000 It was actually very, it was.

01:36:32.000 So I just interviewed, hold on.

01:36:33.000 If I could just go back for a second on Stalin.

01:36:35.000 Sure.

01:36:36.000 What I would have done is push him because when he's like, oh, I don't really admire him, I would have cross-examined him on that piece because there's a way to say, I find it fascinating the way the country industrialized without saying you're an admirer.

01:36:47.000 But at the same time, you asked him, can you do this without starving people and enslaving them?

01:36:53.000 I already know.

01:36:54.000 Well, there are examples.

01:36:55.000 No, but he did say no.

01:36:56.000 He did say no.

01:36:57.000 And that's the thing.

01:36:58.000 He may be lying.

01:36:59.000 And I said, are you lying?

01:37:01.000 Are you doing podcasts, Nick?

01:37:02.000 I said, okay, show trials, secret police, gulags.

01:37:06.000 Walked through.

01:37:06.000 He said, no, of course not.

01:37:08.000 Absolutely not.

01:37:08.000 Anything that inflicts human suffering proactively is not something I would support.

01:37:12.000 And he gave an answer.

01:37:14.000 And since I said, I have to take your answers here at face value, you're not doing what Coleman Hughes, by the way, rightfully sometimes characterizes a softening of viewpoint, which is why I haven't done it today.

01:37:22.000 I apologize.

01:37:23.000 Thank you for standing in the pocket.

01:37:25.000 He did give answers.

01:37:26.000 He didn't just say, I don't know.

01:37:28.000 He didn't.

01:37:30.000 Okay, hold on.

01:37:31.000 Let me figure out which part of this I'm addressing.

01:37:33.000 So first of all, I don't feel like you cross-examined him on that position, though, because you asked him, can it be done without these tactics?

01:37:41.000 There's an answer.

01:37:42.000 The answer is yes.

01:37:43.000 So instead of, and there are many historians and economists that have laid this out.

01:37:49.000 And this is where it's like, okay, so if you really care about industrialization, you probably would have taken the time to look into the work of this guy, that guy, this guy, that guy, the great spurt theory, all of the things I've already kind of mentioned.

01:38:03.000 So, I probably would have cross-examined him more aggressively on that point.

01:38:07.000 He has said, I'll kill, rape, and die for Nick.

01:38:11.000 Like, he has a host of.

01:38:12.000 Now you're conflating.

01:38:13.000 I'm sorry.

01:38:13.000 That's just, it's just inaccurate.

01:38:14.000 I just don't play.

01:38:15.000 Yeah, I just don't play that game.

01:38:16.000 He didn't say that in the context of Stalin.

01:38:18.000 Accreed to him with the gripers, which I called him on.

01:38:21.000 I called him out on that.

01:38:22.000 By the way, he sent them after me.

01:38:23.000 This is going back to 2015.

01:38:25.000 That's not the same thing.

01:38:25.000 He didn't say I would kill, die, rape for Stalin.

01:38:28.000 I'm sorry.

01:38:28.000 I'm just going to, I'm not going to go down that path.

01:38:30.000 But the point here is, you do have the chance to cross-examine him the way you think he should be cross-examined.

01:38:36.000 Why don't you push Nick back on those areas?

01:38:38.000 Sexism, racism, Stalin.

01:38:40.000 Charlie, I believe I agree in Charlie's position when he went after Dinesh D'Souza.

01:38:47.000 And Dinesh was, he even released these text messages.

01:38:50.000 And Dinesh was like, but I'm dismantling his ideas.

01:38:52.000 And he's like, you were ineffective.

01:38:53.000 You gave him a huge platform.

01:38:55.000 And now more people are following him or his platform is great.

01:38:58.000 I can't remember exactly.

01:39:00.000 I agree with Charlie's position on that.

01:39:01.000 I agree with Victor Davis Hansen.

01:39:03.000 I personally do.

01:39:05.000 On the Second Amendment.

01:39:06.000 And how's that worked out, though?

01:39:07.000 How's that worked out?

01:39:10.000 Everybody's platforming him.

01:39:11.000 So I would actually say Charlie was right.

01:39:13.000 I think he's getting bigger.

01:39:14.000 But there's more to it there.

01:39:15.000 No, no.

01:39:16.000 My point is it's not.

01:39:17.000 He is getting bigger.

01:39:18.000 He has been getting, but he was getting bigger consistently with, and this is a fundamental disagreement I had with Charlie Kirk.

01:39:22.000 I've been very clear.

01:39:24.000 I would interview Hitler. 0.98

01:39:26.000 I would interview Hitler to try and prevent him from being Hitler. 0.98

01:39:28.000 I would also interview Donald Trump because they accuse him of being Hitler to find out if he's Hitler.

01:39:32.000 The question, would you kill baby Hitler?

01:39:34.000 By the way, I would.

01:39:36.000 But I would interview Teenage Hitler. 0.88

01:39:38.000 I would kill Baby Hitler. 0.96

01:39:38.000 I beat the shit out of baby Hitler. 0.96

01:39:40.000 I don't care.

01:39:40.000 I don't give a shit.

01:39:41.000 I know I can take a baby.

01:39:42.000 There are weight classes for a reason.

01:39:43.000 I know you know personal training.

01:39:44.000 You know what I'm talking about.

01:39:45.000 Fuck baby Hitler. 0.99

01:39:46.000 But I would interview teenage Hitler. 0.94

01:39:50.000 I would interview Nick at Knight Hitler to try and prevent him from being Hitler. 0.91

01:39:54.000 I can't know if it's actual Hitler or Donald Trump, who they say is Hitler, or me, who they say is Hitler, or you, who the trans community says is Hitler, unless I said and asked.

01:40:04.000 So why, and this is real, is why don't you actually cross-examine him and ask these questions?

01:40:11.000 It seems like you're prepared.

01:40:13.000 To me, there's no moral framework.

01:40:16.000 There's no statistics that justify any of his positions.

01:40:21.000 And you just give what I think is, I won't go after him personally because I think it's in poor taste.

01:40:31.000 I think our terrifying ideas, a platform to grow.

01:40:35.000 I think that, again, it takes an exceptional mind who's extremely learned to be able to react appropriately in those moments.

01:40:48.000 I think the kid is a master rhetorician.

01:40:51.000 And I've seen people platform him, and I think it's not working.

01:40:56.000 I can address the Second Amendment piece if you like, or if you want to move on from that.

01:41:00.000 If you want to address it, yeah.

01:41:01.000 Can I ask you one question?

01:41:02.000 Yeah, go ahead.

01:41:04.000 Oh, sorry.

01:41:04.000 Sorry.

01:41:04.000 My only thought on that, honestly, was maybe the one moment that he actually made a point I thought was interesting.

01:41:11.000 So I had just yesterday interviewed Carl Higbee about that, about the Second Amendment and, you know, what were his thoughts and pushing like, oh, well, you know, the founding fathers didn't have assault rifles.

01:41:23.000 And Higbee took me all the way to the end of if the government has F-16s, we need an F-16.

01:41:30.000 And I thought it was all very, very interesting.

01:41:33.000 But Fuentes brought up, he brought up a good point where he said, they'll get you.

01:41:40.000 No one needs a gun.

01:41:42.000 And I was like, wow, I didn't think about that when I was interviewing Higbe.

01:41:46.000 That's just all transparency.

01:41:49.000 I was.

01:41:50.000 I think you did bring up a good point with that.

01:41:51.000 Yeah.

01:41:52.000 That the Second Amendment, obviously, for me is foundational.

01:41:55.000 But they can de-platform you and debank you.

01:41:58.000 So there need to be some, I would say, additional protections in the new world, not stripping of rights and protections, but adding because of people being debanked and country where I was raised, Canada.

01:42:07.000 I mean, it's weird that you have a totalitarian hellhole that's also filled with pussies, but that's how I would describe Canada. 1.00

01:42:14.000 I know it seems like a misnomer.

01:42:17.000 Let me ask you, what's your position on the Second Amendment since we're there?

01:42:20.000 And has it changed?

01:42:22.000 Or have you always been where you are now?

01:42:25.000 I think I've always been where I am now.

01:42:27.000 And here would be my position.

01:42:32.000 I live in a reality.

01:42:33.000 This is kind of our continuum conversation of the perfect family, right?

01:42:37.000 If there was a perfect world where nobody had a gun, then I wouldn't see a need for one.

01:42:43.000 The reality, you know, like if everybody was a good guy and nobody robbed people and raped people and murdered people, sure, but that's not the world we live in.

01:42:54.000 Bad guys have guns.

01:42:55.000 It's my understanding that there were like 400 million of them in this country.

01:42:59.000 I think 20 to 30 million of them are illegal.

01:43:02.000 I can't cite the source on this one because I don't recall in the moment, but by all means, fact check me.

01:43:06.000 This is what I remember from a previous conversation.

01:43:09.000 It's approximately right.

01:43:11.000 And when bad guys have guns, good guys cannot defend themselves.

01:43:16.000 And whenever I've lived, you know, when you look at Brown, for example, the part that makes me so pissed is it's a weapon-free zone that's completely open to the public.

01:43:27.000 So you made these kids sitting ducks.

01:43:30.000 And both my kids know how to use guns.

01:43:33.000 And I plan on the minute they turn 18, getting both of them a license for concealed carry.

01:43:40.000 Because I just think this is the world we're living in.

01:43:43.000 Bad guys have guns.

01:43:46.000 So I have a feeling that, and you know what Higbee said to me yesterday?

01:43:50.000 And I won't do nearly as good of a job recounting this, but he listed all of these different incidents where citizens who are carrying took down bad guys that were killing people.

01:44:04.000 So listen, that's where I personally stand on it.

01:44:08.000 I do, I would like stronger background checks.

01:44:10.000 And maybe you'll dismantle me on this one.

01:44:12.000 Higby's answer was I have no problem with that as long as you have the same prerequisites for voting.

01:44:19.000 We both agreed on that.

01:44:21.000 So, you know, if someone's got a history of being violent or crazy, I wouldn't like to see them get a gun.

01:44:26.000 Yeah, but they're already not allowed to.

01:44:27.000 But I don't want to go after that because it sounds like we agree pragmatically.

01:44:31.000 But you did say you don't want to because there's no moral framework as far as interviewing certain people.

01:44:37.000 What I am interested in knowing is what is your moral framework on the Second Amendment?

01:44:41.000 Sure, the real world is bad guys have guns.

01:44:44.000 Listen, if this kid didn't say women want to be raped and they want the shit beat out of them, of course, listen, if I didn't feel I have a mixed race family.

01:44:53.000 No, no, what's your foundation?

01:44:55.000 I'm asking you about the second amendment.

01:44:57.000 What's your moral framework on the right to owe guns?

01:44:59.000 Not that bad guys have them.

01:45:01.000 What's your basis of your rooting ideology as far as should people have the right to own guns, period?

01:45:08.000 Why or why not?

01:45:09.000 That's what I was asking.

01:45:10.000 Well, it's in the Constitution.

01:45:12.000 It's in the Constitution for a reason to prevent a tyrannical government from literally enslaving a population.

01:45:21.000 I agree with that.

01:45:23.000 What Fuentes pointed out, though, is they'll get to you anyway.

01:45:26.000 And I had a blind spot there.

01:45:28.000 So there's that piece.

01:45:31.000 And there's also the piece of bad guys have guns.

01:45:34.000 And I think we need at least a fair shot.

01:45:38.000 So that's my moral framework.

01:45:41.000 Yeah.

01:45:42.000 It's not one I've given a ton of people.

01:45:43.000 I wanted to clarify that it's not based on the top.

01:45:47.000 No, no, I just, I wanted to make sure.

01:45:48.000 I'm not an expert in this area.

01:45:49.000 This is a personal opinion.

01:45:51.000 Well, that's what a moral framework is.

01:45:52.000 So that's why I was asking.

01:45:53.000 So we see where we agree.

01:45:55.000 For me, the foundation is pretty important.

01:45:56.000 I agree pragmatically.

01:45:58.000 I mean, you know, 94% of mass shootings take place in gun-free zones, half a million to three million defensive uses of firearms.

01:46:04.000 You were said in the anecdotal, and those are very powerful, but statistically, it's overwhelming, far more defensive uses than offensive uses.

01:46:11.000 And it's just, it's not even close.

01:46:13.000 I mean, gun ownership correlates with lower crime, but that's not the basis of my opinion on the Second Amendment, coming from a country where you don't have the right to defend yourself.

01:46:22.000 It's a God, the moral framework for me is the God-given right to self-preservation.

01:46:27.000 And anyone who speaks out against it, even if no bad guys have guns, God should damn straight to the pit of hell because preventing anyone, woman, disabled, younger, smaller, weaker person from preventing themselves. 0.99

01:46:40.000 I don't care about the results.

01:46:41.000 Even if they were worse, they're not.

01:46:43.000 That's the moral framework.

01:46:45.000 Can I reframe it then?

01:46:46.000 No, I think we agree.

01:46:48.000 God-given right to self-preservation.

01:46:50.000 What I mean by bad guys not, if bad guys didn't have guns, to take it a step further, it would be there'd be no need for self-preservation.

01:46:57.000 So I'm in full agreement with you on this one.

01:47:00.000 At least I think I am.

01:47:01.000 Well, no, I'm glad to hear it because that's a big one.

01:47:04.000 That obviously is, and it's one where I disagreed with Nick.

01:47:06.000 I'm further to the right of Nick.

01:47:07.000 I don't know there was a strong disagreement, but I told him it sounds a lot like the left saying it was just for muskets.

01:47:13.000 Let me ask you this.

01:47:16.000 If you learn something, like you just said from Nick on the idea that there need to be additional protections, could there be some other things that maybe you would learn or gain perspective on by talking or listening to him?

01:47:30.000 Stephen, I think in our cost-benefit analysis of illustrating or illuminating, forgive me, a blind spot versus elevating what I believe to be our terrifying ideas, I'm going with still no.

01:47:51.000 And all I'm going to tell you is that there are people who are far better at this than me.

01:47:56.000 I'm just truthfully a concerned mom and a concerned citizen with regard to why I engage in these conversations, not Fuentes.

01:48:06.000 When you got guys like Charlie Kirk and guys like Ben Shapiro and guys like Victor Davis Hansen that suggests no good comes of it, I think I'm stronger than them in certain areas.

01:48:19.000 I could probably talk to you about big pharma more effectively than they could.

01:48:23.000 Pull up.

01:48:24.000 You do a fantastic job.

01:48:26.000 Of course, big food, big insurance.

01:48:29.000 I'm pretty erudite on those subject matters.

01:48:32.000 But when guys like that, who are far better equipped don't do it, I think that's like, if you have an Olympic, like what if they're not?

01:48:44.000 What if your premise is false?

01:48:45.000 What if, and by the way, I believe I sat on some panels with Victor Davis Hansen back when I was at PJ TV in 2009 because he wrote for PJ Media.

01:48:54.000 Obviously, Ben Shapiro has been on the show a whole lot.

01:48:56.000 And this is something that I see, and this is where I diverge from a lot of them.

01:49:00.000 They have a complete, everyone you've mentioned has a very large blind spot as to why this generation, meaning the Gen Z generation, you know, I'm right in the middle millennial, why they are so upset about the emasculization of men.

01:49:14.000 And a big part of it is the nuclear family, why they are rejecting modern gender theory and why there's so much pushback.

01:49:22.000 So that's something that I think is a blind spot for the entire right-wing conservative movement.

01:49:28.000 And I think that you even saying, for example, Ben Shapiro, not understanding that people have rejected him resoundingly, and not necessarily that I agree with it.

01:49:36.000 I think he's a brilliant guy.

01:49:38.000 I think this is a huge blind spot.

01:49:40.000 So I think saying, hey, these guys are so great.

01:49:41.000 And people are going, yeah, they have a blind spot, they'll go, but this guy won't interview them.

01:49:45.000 It's like, well, yeah, yeah, because he has a blind spot.

01:49:47.000 There is a disconnect and there's a reason.

01:49:50.000 Okay.

01:49:50.000 It's my understanding that people have The people who have turned on Ben Shapiro is over Israel, though.

01:49:59.000 And I listen, you could again, the Gaza conversation, I've said very clearly, I am not the person who can take this one on, nor do I want to.

01:50:12.000 Here's what I want: I want, I take the Trump, the Trump approach here.

01:50:16.000 All I know is I want people to stop dying.

01:50:19.000 That's it.

01:50:19.000 You'll never get me to.

01:50:20.000 I couldn't even begin to talk to you about Smot Rich and the history of this and they did that and then they did this.

01:50:26.000 And then they, oh, you know, I mean, it's like insane.

01:50:29.000 This is kind of what I mean about Stalin.

01:50:31.000 Like, I was lucky enough to know a little bit about that.

01:50:34.000 But, you know, I've sat in interviews where people are like, did you know that Netanyahu funded Hamas and he wanted this?

01:50:43.000 And like, I don't know that.

01:50:45.000 Then I'll go talk to someone like Dave Rubin and Dave Rubin's like, no, no, no, no.

01:50:49.000 That's not what was happening.

01:50:50.000 What was happening here is they thought that Hamas at the time, 30 years ago, was a better alternative to Arafat.

01:50:56.000 Like, I don't have the ability.

01:50:58.000 Do you see what I'm saying?

01:50:59.000 Nor, like, that's what I, what I mean.

01:51:02.000 If I see what you're saying, yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.

01:51:06.000 And I disagree.

01:51:06.000 And that's where we disagree.

01:51:07.000 And I think there's the quote about the man who enters the arena.

01:51:10.000 And I think at some point, all the people, all the men, women, Zs who don't enter into the arena are less productive. 1.00

01:51:20.000 And I think you should enter into the arena rather than telling people that they shouldn't enter the arena and have disqualifiers in gatekeeping.

01:51:26.000 They shouldn't enter the arena.

01:51:27.000 Or if you don't enter the arena saying not that way, this way, but you point to people who won't do it.

01:51:31.000 Ben Shapiro, I agree with probably on a whole lot more on some issues than Nick Fuentes, certainly.

01:51:36.000 Victor Davis Hansen.

01:51:38.000 Certainly.

01:51:38.000 But Ben Shapiro won't show up.

01:51:41.000 But Ben Shapiro will platform other people who are much further to the left, who have pushed against worldviews that are far more antithetical to what he and I believe, or at least espouse we hold dear.

01:51:51.000 And that's a big blind spot.

01:51:53.000 Just like I know you said, I think that you said you don't care at all about, and I don't want to mischaracterize, but the Browning of America.

01:51:59.000 This is a term, right?

01:52:00.000 It's shorthand.

01:52:02.000 Things that you didn't give a damn about it.

01:52:03.000 Okay, but a lot of young people do.

01:52:06.000 Can I address that?

01:52:09.000 Yes, but if I just make issues, the point is, and I agree with you, not everyone is going to be as qualified as the next guy.

01:52:16.000 I understand it.

01:52:18.000 But then you end up abdicating.

01:52:19.000 And if everybody abdicates, then nobody actually has a conversation of ideas.

01:52:22.000 And in my experience, which is more than anyone in this movement at this point in time, I've been here longest, is more corrosive in the long run.

01:52:29.000 Let's take this example to go to that: the Browning of America. 1.00

01:52:32.000 Young people do.

01:52:33.000 They don't want their neighborhood to look like little Bangladesh. 1.00

01:52:36.000 The culture issues are where the old conservative guard are losing, and they're going to continue to lose.

01:52:43.000 So I think our concern is from two different sides there.

01:52:46.000 Okay, so first thing, with regard to, I never said no one should talk to Fuentes.

01:52:52.000 I said, I wish that Tucker had done it more effectively, like he did with Ted Cruz.

01:52:57.000 I was asked by Marissa Street, why wasn't I upset about Patrick Bed David's interview?

01:53:02.000 And I thought Patrick Bed David, in his way, he's not aggressive at all ever.

01:53:07.000 But I thought that Patrick Bed David, in his way, did effectively dismantle his ideas.

01:53:12.000 And, you know, we could point, I could give you a specific when Patrick Bed David addressed his concerns of organized Fuentes' concerns of organized Jewry.

01:53:22.000 PBD said, I admire this quality.

01:53:25.000 I don't resent it.

01:53:26.000 I don't fear it.

01:53:27.000 I want to understand it.

01:53:29.000 I want to emulate aspects of it.

01:53:32.000 This happened before Tucker's interview.

01:53:34.000 I was asked specifically about it.

01:53:36.000 And I was like, well, I didn't say anything because I thought that he effectively dismantled or provided a better alternative to Fuentes' ideas.

01:53:46.000 Now, you want to talk about Browning.

01:53:49.000 For me personally, The melanin in someone's skin is not my concern.

01:53:57.000 Chanting death to America in Dearborn is my concern. 0.90

01:54:00.000 Sure.

01:54:01.000 You know, like that worries me.

01:54:06.000 Me too.

01:54:07.000 Common ground.

01:54:07.000 Yeah.

01:54:08.000 No, not a fan of death to America.

01:54:10.000 Okay, so Stephen, I actually have listened to you here.

01:54:13.000 And to be dead honest, very recently I listened to, it must have been a couple of weeks ago, and I don't remember the name of your episode, but you got into Muhammad and I was like, they're going to kill this guy. 0.71

01:54:24.000 Like I genuinely was worried for your life when you were taking that one on.

01:54:29.000 But I think that's not new.

01:54:30.000 When you have a do a sketch as Bob Ross painting Muhammad, and then you go back to 2009, I did a three Stooges routine of Muhammad beating his six-year-old wife called the Quran challenge. 0.55

01:54:40.000 I mean, listen, we, we, you know, all I'm going to say is like there, I have similar concerns with regard to culture.

01:54:49.000 Yeah.

01:54:50.000 I think we're on the same page.

01:54:52.000 It has nothing to do with the color of someone's skin, though.

01:54:54.000 And if I could give you a few examples, Patrick Beth David is Persian.

01:54:59.000 Vivek Ramaswamy is first gen, obviously.

01:55:02.000 He's very Persian.

01:55:04.000 Indian.

01:55:05.000 No, no, Patrick Beth David.

01:55:07.000 I've been to his house.

01:55:07.000 I've walked in.

01:55:08.000 I'm like, nothing like perpetuating the stereotype.

01:55:09.000 It's marble and gold.

01:55:11.000 Let me put it to you that way.

01:55:12.000 I couldn't afford the 2.5 pound gold lion in the front door.

01:55:15.000 Okay, me mental.

01:55:16.000 It's like, dude, this is exactly how I'd picture.

01:55:18.000 It's like Xerxes' house.

01:55:21.000 Okay, but are you concerned?

01:55:24.000 Okay, all done.

01:55:26.000 Okay, more to my point, though.

01:55:28.000 Do you want Patrick Beth David to go home to Iran?

01:55:30.000 No, of course I don't want Patrick Beth David to go home to Iraq.

01:55:33.000 We're on the same behavior.

01:55:34.000 Well, here, yes, we're on the same, but here's the thing.

01:55:37.000 Back then, people said it was Nazi for even speaking out.

01:55:40.000 I mean, I lost my management.

01:55:42.000 I lost my booking agent.

01:55:44.000 Yeah, for a lot of this, because you couldn't even question Muhammad, right? 0.90

01:55:48.000 Question Islam, because that was sort of something you couldn't do back then.

01:55:51.000 People are scared.

01:55:52.000 But I do think that race has a component.

01:55:54.000 Now, of course, not all, not all, not all, not all.

01:55:57.000 But when you're looking at the influx of H-1Bs in entire neighborhoods, not even just Muslim, where people feel like a stranger in their own neighborhood, and that displaces, by design, young white Americans with cheaper labor. 0.99

01:56:10.000 It is a legitimate grievance.

01:56:12.000 And the problem is there's a whole group over here, the people who you've named, who I respect greatly, who don't actually address this entire group, a very large voting block, on the terms that they present.

01:56:23.000 They're saying, no, no, no.

01:56:24.000 Here's why race does matter.

01:56:27.000 And I think they get it wrong sometimes, but it's not completely invalid.

01:56:32.000 But again, you just brought up the fact that, you know, young men are feeling young.

01:56:36.000 By the way, I would bet you that young American men who are also black and brown, I've seen a lot of young black American boys who don't like immigration for the reasons you're just talking about.

01:56:48.000 So again, this is where I just, I don't, I, the melanin piece, I don't think is productive and I don't think it's relevant.

01:56:57.000 But I do see all your points with regard to immigration and cultural assimilation.

01:57:04.000 Yeah.

01:57:04.000 And I think that's, and again, sometimes what I'm just saying is we need to be charitable to people who, if shorthand, say Browning of America, or if people say shorthand, white Americans when they talk about displacement.

01:57:16.000 Let me ask you this.

01:57:17.000 Would you care if white people?

01:57:19.000 That's not what these are not things that Fuentes says.

01:57:23.000 No, no, but I'm saying, but let's take the people who are listening.

01:57:27.000 A lot of young people are concerned about this.

01:57:29.000 And I think we need to, especially if you want to reach them.

01:57:33.000 I personally don't think I'm going to be effective at reaching these people.

01:57:36.000 I don't think I'm the one.

01:57:37.000 I think you are.

01:57:39.000 And that's kind of one of the reasons I guess if you were to say, you asked me to do that.

01:57:44.000 I mean, I guess I am kind of asking you, can you disavow?

01:57:48.000 Well, yeah, I already have.

01:57:49.000 I don't know.

01:57:50.000 I don't like raw.

01:57:51.000 Then there we are.

01:57:52.000 Okay, well, good.

01:57:52.000 Now, if we're talking the fantasy, I got a hat.

01:57:55.000 I got a padded headboard for a reason and a leather football helmet.

01:57:59.000 Let's keep it.

01:58:00.000 Yeah, I know the problem is she just looks like she's special needs. 1.00

01:58:03.000 I'm like, no, no, it's part of the role clap.

01:58:05.000 But let me ask you this.

01:58:07.000 Jillian, would you care if, and by the way, if you have time, I do want to when we go to, I know we've gone late to Rumble Premium.

01:58:14.000 I want to ask you some fitness stuff because, you know, it's just, I never get to talk about it.

01:58:17.000 Okay.

01:58:18.000 But would you care, for example, because I will tell you, a lot of young people do.

01:58:22.000 They view it this way when they're pulled.

01:58:23.000 Would you care if white people were a minority in America?

01:58:30.000 Honestly, the skin color thing is not my issue.

01:58:33.000 The value thing is my issue.

01:58:35.000 I'm being honest with you.

01:58:36.000 Like my issue are American values.

01:58:40.000 I don't personally look at it as a melanin thing.

01:58:43.000 I just don't.

01:58:44.000 I have two half siblings.

01:58:45.000 They're Venezuelan and Mexican.

01:58:48.000 I got a kid that's black.

01:58:49.000 Oh, they must hate each other.

01:58:53.000 They actually don't.

01:58:55.000 My son is half Latin.

01:58:57.000 I just don't.

01:58:57.000 My dad's an Arab.

01:58:59.000 My mom's mom is a, like, I just don't, the skin color thing is not my issue. 1.00

01:59:03.000 I, I don't care.

01:59:05.000 It's, for me, it's about principles and values and assimilation and not chanting death to America in the streets.

01:59:14.000 Well, that's definitely a big one.

01:59:15.000 That's definitely a big one.

01:59:17.000 I think I see, I think I see all of your, you know, I think I, I, like I said, I have listened to you and I tend to agree with many of your concerns.

01:59:25.000 I just don't equate them to skin color.

01:59:27.000 I'm not equating them to skin, but I'm saying you do need to understand why some people might, and then you can present the why.

01:59:35.000 Well, hold on, it's not just skin color.

01:59:36.000 Now, here's the thing, though.

01:59:37.000 There is a component of that, right?

01:59:39.000 We make generalizations and we have to.

01:59:41.000 It's a self-preservation mechanism where you go, okay, we've tried a lot of immigrants, for example, from a place like India.

01:59:47.000 People from India tend to look more similar than people in the United States, different skin color, and the assimilation isn't there.

01:59:53.000 It's not there in a way that we saw from Irish Americans, that we saw from Italian Americans, that we see with Jewish Americans.

01:59:59.000 I would say where I disagree with someone like Nick Fuentes, Polish Americans. 1.00

02:00:02.000 And a big reason for that is because we share, you know, if you take Italian immigrants and Irish immigrants, they'd be in different boroughs, maybe, but they share a common religion, a common language, especially if they learned it here.

02:00:15.000 It's not like one is from Mars and one is from Venus.

02:00:17.000 And so the shorthand is: okay, no more people from this country that happens to be brown because they don't become good Americans. 0.99

02:00:24.000 And they're displacing Americans as far as work, as far as culture, and it's legitimate concern. 1.00

02:00:30.000 And it's why people like Nick Fuentes are just eating the lunch of a lot of the people who you list, old guard conservatives.

02:00:38.000 It's not even because they're necessarily wrong.

02:00:41.000 On some issues, they're right and he's wrong.

02:00:42.000 I would agree with him a whole lot more.

02:00:44.000 It's that there is this pervasive ignoring of grievances from people saying, well, it's not that, it's this.

02:00:51.000 And I've just never seen that work.

02:00:53.000 That's my point.

02:00:55.000 But I actually agree with you.

02:00:56.000 I just think you do a massive disservice to the message.

02:01:01.000 And you hand somebody a weapon to club you over the head with and utilize against you by making it about skin color.

02:01:12.000 All of the points you make, they happen to be, hey, listen, if you're from this part of the world and you believe whatever, we could get into all the different ideas that you and I arguably both deem un-American, right?

02:01:31.000 Iran is a, you know, they beat a woman to death because her hair was showing. 0.99

02:01:36.000 Like, no, that is deeply alarming to me.

02:01:41.000 But at the same time, I have another Iranian in Patrick Bed David who ran from that and thinks it's disgusting and foul. 1.00

02:01:48.000 I just, for me, it is about principles and values and assimilation.

02:01:54.000 And I just think if you're trying to communicate this, you do yourself a disservice about making it about skin color because you also effectively allow the left to shut you down with that.

02:02:10.000 Yeah, I don't care.

02:02:11.000 And the reason I don't care, I'm not making it about skin color.

02:02:14.000 I'm saying meeting them where they really will make the case that it is and understanding it.

02:02:18.000 And that's because the left would shut me down for criticizing Muhammad.

02:02:20.000 The left would shut me down for supporting safe.

02:02:23.000 Why don't you give them that?

02:02:25.000 Why?

02:02:26.000 I'll tell you exactly why, because I don't want to step over dollars to pick up pennies.

02:02:30.000 I don't want to hopscotch the giant voting bloc in this country who are concerned with demographic changes that are real, who are concerned with feminist pervasive influence, which is real, to try and reach the Kanye's of the world or the ex-only fans of the world. 0.73

02:02:44.000 I see people constantly abandon, like you've talked about, fundamental principles in order to cater to a new voting base that isn't going to be around that long anyway.

02:02:53.000 So I just have to do it the way that I believe is truthful.

02:02:56.000 Okay, that's fair.

02:02:57.000 And you know what?

02:02:58.000 I respect that.

02:02:59.000 But I think you're, I personally, I think you're a very good faith actor.

02:03:04.000 We may disagree on how to reach those young boys.

02:03:08.000 You're saying I have to acknowledge this.

02:03:10.000 I'm saying, well, okay, if you feel you have to do it, I think it could be counterintuitive because it shuts you down to this group of people over here.

02:03:18.000 We'll agree to disagree.

02:03:19.000 I actually don't know the answer on who's right there and there's no way to bear it out now in this moment.

02:03:23.000 You know, we'll hopefully reconvene at the midterms, maybe.

02:03:27.000 If I should be so lucky to have your company again in the future and say, you're right, I'm wrong, I'm wrong, you're right.

02:03:32.000 As long as you don't mind spending time with a prick like me, then I'm not talking about it.

02:03:36.000 As long as you don't mind spending time with a lesbian feminist, I, you know. 1.00

02:03:40.000 It's okay.

02:03:40.000 You're an exception.

02:03:42.000 I will say lesbians are very often, Jillian, not fun. 1.00

02:03:46.000 Like, it's one of those, one of those groups of people where you're like, hey, they're like, you're like, shut the fuck up.

02:03:51.000 Can you just stop?

02:03:52.000 Like, whereas with a gay gal, just be like, I know. 1.00

02:03:54.000 Gay guys are more fun.

02:03:55.000 They're caddy.

02:03:56.000 They're bitchy. 1.00

02:03:56.000 It's a little risque. 1.00

02:03:57.000 Like, lesbians are just often, and I'm not saying you're amongst us. 0.99

02:04:00.000 You're killjoys.

02:04:02.000 You're like, keep.

02:04:03.000 I don't disagree with you.

02:04:04.000 I don't disagree with you.

02:04:05.000 Okay.

02:04:05.000 All right.

02:04:06.000 There we find common ground.

02:04:07.000 I don't have, I don't think I have one.

02:04:10.000 I guess I would consider my wife a friend, but outside of her, I don't have any lesbian friends.

02:04:15.000 It's got to be tough.

02:04:16.000 I've almost never met a lesbian in real life with a sense of humor. 0.99

02:04:20.000 It's incredibly rare.

02:04:21.000 So it's got to be tough to be around those folks.

02:04:25.000 I had something I wanted to ask.

02:04:26.000 I don't remember exactly what it was, but yeah, I understand where you're coming from.

02:04:30.000 And I think we got to the foundational disagreement.

02:04:33.000 I wanted to ask you, you know what, we're not going to premium.

02:04:35.000 We'll just keep it stay.

02:04:36.000 It's before the Christmas episode.

02:04:37.000 Let me ask you, obviously you came to prominence, fame with health and fitness.

02:04:44.000 Because it always sounds like, you know, sort of a pejorative if you're like, with work or not, but you know what I mean?

02:04:48.000 Health and fitness is your specialty.

02:04:51.000 What would you say are the most important?

02:04:54.000 Because there's so much now in the age of influencers, right?

02:04:56.000 You'll get a guy who's just obviously an anabolics and buy my tea. 0.99

02:05:00.000 And you're like, tell them about the trend, bitch. 1.00

02:05:03.000 But what about, like, what do you think should cut through the fog?

02:05:06.000 What do you think are the most fundamental sort of precepts that people need to know, especially going into the new year, as far as strength training, like the fundamentals without getting off in the weeds?

02:05:16.000 You're spot on.

02:05:17.000 It's really all about the big rocks.

02:05:19.000 And that just means, listen, this is all very simple, but it's not easy.

02:05:25.000 And that's a separate conversation as to why.

02:05:27.000 But eat more foods.

02:05:30.000 Don't overeat.

02:05:32.000 Move more.

02:05:33.000 In a perfect world, you'd have a strength training goal.

02:05:37.000 Four days a week would be amazing.

02:05:39.000 Three days a week would be good.

02:05:41.000 Two days a week is still solid.

02:05:44.000 So, like meeting people where they're at, but obviously, strength training, having a step goal, engaging in HIIP training.

02:05:51.000 Exercise is the number one form of preventative medicine.

02:05:54.000 Focus on your sleep.

02:05:55.000 Like, this is dipshit stuff.

02:05:57.000 I think the depth of the conversation is: why are so many people struggling to do it?

02:06:03.000 And that's a whole nother, you know, that's a whole different ball of wax.

02:06:06.000 It's quite insidious, to be honest.

02:06:09.000 That's my answer.

02:06:10.000 Everything is big.

02:06:11.000 You know what?

02:06:11.000 No, and I mean, no, no, Jillian, I mean this.

02:06:14.000 Every size is beautiful.

02:06:16.000 It's not.

02:06:17.000 You can be healthy at any weight.

02:06:18.000 Fuck off.

02:06:21.000 Stephen, that is legitimately a big food psyop.

02:06:24.000 And, you know, listen.

02:06:25.000 Well, then you just have to tell me why so many feminists fell for it. 1.00

02:06:29.000 Because they were having such a hard time losing weight that they leaned into the message.

02:06:34.000 I'm being serious.

02:06:36.000 Again, like, how much time do I have?

02:06:38.000 Apparently, I'm not in a rush.

02:06:39.000 It's my last day before Christmas.

02:06:40.000 Okay.

02:06:41.000 So the Washington Post, actually, I know you want to vomit, but just hear me out.

02:06:45.000 They actually did a really good job in exposing the ways that big food worked to push this narrative, whether it was paying off registered dieticians, influencers online, coming up with hashtags like D-Rail, TheShame.

02:07:00.000 And they were very effective.

02:07:02.000 Now, when you have a group of women who've been struggling with their weight for a host of different reasons, and you say, oh, no, no, no, listen, this is not your fault.

02:07:12.000 Because already they're feeling ashamed.

02:07:14.000 They're beating themselves up.

02:07:15.000 They don't know what's wrong.

02:07:16.000 And you say, no, no, no, this is awesome.

02:07:19.000 And this isn't your fault.

02:07:21.000 And probably genetic.

02:07:24.000 And they're like, oh, this is awesome.

02:07:26.000 This is great.

02:07:26.000 This is not my fault.

02:07:28.000 And it's genetic.

02:07:29.000 And how dare you, you fat shamer? 1.00

02:07:31.000 Yeah.

02:07:32.000 And then you had big pharma turnarounds.

02:07:36.000 And their narrative was, no, no, no, no.

02:07:39.000 We're going to play on your apathy and your, you know, this assertion that you are a victim of circumstance.

02:07:48.000 But it's not that it's beautiful.

02:07:50.000 It's not that it's healthy.

02:07:51.000 Beauty's in the eye of the beholder, but it's not that it's healthy.

02:07:53.000 It's not, but it's genetic, you see.

02:07:56.000 And so you're a hapless victim.

02:07:57.000 And what you need now are our drugs.

02:08:01.000 And I would argue in this particular instance, this is not feminism. 1.00

02:08:04.000 It's a vulnerability to culture norms with regard to body size. 0.98

02:08:10.000 That would be my argument.

02:08:11.000 And I think women are being very effectively manipulated by these two industries. 1.00

02:08:16.000 Yeah, I think, well, I think that the fat pride, I don't know if you know this, I actually was published.

02:08:21.000 So I actually went into C. Matheson, this was during COVID.

02:08:24.000 I wrote a paper on fat pride as a method of self-care in the era of Donald Trump and dressed up as a lady in a sweater.

02:08:32.000 And I had to present it digitally at a town hall, put on a fake belly.

02:08:36.000 And they were like, wow, this is so brave.

02:08:38.000 And I was like, I just took a bunch of buzzwords and wrote it.

02:08:42.000 It was an academic conference, I should say, where it was accepted.

02:08:45.000 And I realized how, and it was all women. 1.00

02:08:48.000 And I will say this, I do think so, because there has been, and this is a big part of young men when they talk about feminism.

02:08:53.000 And a lot of women are like, they just hate women. 1.00

02:08:55.000 It's that young men do face an accountability and a direct feedback mechanism that a lot of young women don't.

02:09:01.000 So I have a twin son and a twin, a daughter, both four.

02:09:05.000 And I am going to, and I had to think about this a lot.

02:09:08.000 I am going to have to raise him and say, hey, you are not a piece of shit because you were born a white male. 0.62

02:09:14.000 You are not guilty.

02:09:16.000 And tell her, hey, you are not perfect the way you are.

02:09:19.000 You're not a princess because you were born a lady. 1.00

02:09:21.000 Everything else is earned.

02:09:23.000 You were both fearfully, wonderfully creative, but your actions define you.

02:09:26.000 But it is two very different messages from society.

02:09:28.000 Young men, guilt, check privilege.

02:09:31.000 Young women, you're perfect.

02:09:32.000 If he doesn't like, this is just for you.

02:09:35.000 Because young men, like, it doesn't work. 0.99

02:09:37.000 Like, you can't tell a man that he's beautiful at a big size.

02:09:40.000 But, Stephen, I actually totally agree with you.

02:09:44.000 So much so that I got labeled a white supremacist.

02:09:47.000 Nationalist.

02:09:48.000 Yes.

02:09:49.000 Oh, sorry.

02:09:50.000 Yeah.

02:09:52.000 exactly.

02:09:53.000 Just, yeah.

02:09:54.000 Both of which are untrue.

02:09:56.000 I agree with you completely.

02:09:58.000 Yeah.

02:09:59.000 Again, I really do think largely outside of I understand gay marriage piece.

02:10:04.000 And I don't even know if it's worth it for us to ever get into that down the road.

02:10:08.000 But I really do think largely you and I share a similar agenda.

02:10:13.000 I think I see, I listen to you.

02:10:17.000 So I have a limited amount of time in my life, so I can't consume everything you do, but I have listened to you.

02:10:23.000 I have identified with you and learned from you on numerous topics.

02:10:27.000 I agree with you.

02:10:28.000 I just think we have differing ideas on how to reach the end goal in large part.

02:10:34.000 In large part.

02:10:35.000 I agree with you.

02:10:36.000 I was just talking about the fat pride thing in particular, because when I was talking about that.

02:10:39.000 I think you're right about all of it.

02:10:40.000 Well, what's funny is a boy, I was literally removed, posts removed from Facebook back in the day in the 2010s when Tess Holiday was a big thing and the fat pride.

02:10:50.000 Me saying this person is, I'll tell you what, a change of my mind that I've wanted to do for a long time.

02:10:54.000 We haven't been able to do it.

02:10:55.000 Is at a fat pride conference and actually having a treadmill and a doctor present and saying all sizes are beautiful, stress test with a stack of $10,000.

02:11:06.000 If a morbidly obese person can get to the point of moderately athletic, and I actually wanted to hang it from a fishing rod, you know, along with cake, just to see, just to prove the point definitively.

02:11:17.000 It's like approach.

02:11:18.000 I stress approach.

02:11:21.000 Yes, but that's. 0.57

02:11:23.000 Yeah, why not?

02:11:24.000 But I remember when I would talk with young women, they would say, well, men can be fat and no one cares.

02:11:28.000 And I remember saying, okay, I said, name me one hunk, one sexiest man ever on the list who was fat.

02:11:36.000 Because I can name you 10 and rattled off women. 1.00

02:11:38.000 They said, well, someone like Chris Farley, I said, funniest man alive.

02:11:42.000 He's attractive in spite of being, no one said he's beautiful because he's fat.

02:11:45.000 And they couldn't find one.

02:11:47.000 It doesn't exist.

02:11:48.000 And you know, the standard for men, and this is something, again, when listening to young men, they will tell you for young women, look, not everyone's, you're obviously very, very fit.

02:11:57.000 It's your lifestyle.

02:11:58.000 But men don't expect that of women.

02:11:59.000 We just expect to be within the parameters of health.

02:12:02.000 In other words, you can be thin.

02:12:02.000 Audrey Hepburn, Marilyn Monroe, sexiest women of each decade, right?

02:12:07.000 For men, though, if you look at our magazines, you have to be lean and reptilian.

02:12:12.000 And that is a much more unrealistic standard.

02:12:16.000 I totally agree with you.

02:12:17.000 And I think it's doing a massive disservice to young men.

02:12:20.000 I mentioned I have a brother.

02:12:21.000 He's significantly younger.

02:12:23.000 He's 35.

02:12:24.000 And I have over the past decade shot down so many insane questions with regard to anabolic steroids.

02:12:33.000 And I'm like, no, testosterone because of the pressure they're seeing on Instagram.

02:12:39.000 Like, you're good, sweetheart.

02:12:41.000 You're fine.

02:12:41.000 You're healthy.

02:12:42.000 You're handsome.

02:12:43.000 And I agree with you.

02:12:44.000 The pressure is staggering on boys as well as girls.

02:12:49.000 I think there's healthy role models that can speak to young boys better.

02:12:54.000 These young boys just happen to have access to me through my brother and have grown up around me and reached out to ask me about these things.

02:13:01.000 But I, again, I agree with you.

02:13:04.000 But I do think people are being manipulated by far more nefarious influences than feminism. 1.00

02:13:13.000 I don't.

02:13:14.000 Personally.

02:13:14.000 I don't.

02:13:15.000 I really don't.

02:13:16.000 And I say because it's the root cause of a lot of, not just feminism, not just men, fuck, but I mean the root cause of a lot of society's ills as far as the fundamental deconstruction of our central governing units, the family, and also male-female roles in society. 0.93

02:13:31.000 That's why it's important to me.

02:13:33.000 And it's obviously downstream.

02:13:34.000 I mean, communism, Marxism, like a big part of it.

02:13:37.000 can go back to the Industrial Revolution and get in the get two incomes so you can have some spending money.

02:13:43.000 And now we have other people raising our kids.

02:13:44.000 But I will talk about this, a different approach.

02:13:46.000 You mentioned Charlie Kirk.

02:13:48.000 And by the way, I think he's a very good man and took it probably, it affected me more than most because only really two people consistently know what it's like to be in that spot.

02:14:00.000 And I've dealt with a lot of these threats.

02:14:02.000 But we did have a different approach professionally and I disagreed with him.

02:14:06.000 And let me explain to you what that is and maybe it'll help illuminate as to why I'll sit down and talk with anyone.

02:14:11.000 I never had one time because the school required it.

02:14:15.000 I've never had a speaker outside of the one time at Urbana, Illinois at a change my mind.

02:14:20.000 And I don't talk with anyone who isn't sitting down next to me at that table.

02:14:24.000 And that was foundation.

02:14:25.000 The approach was, I don't want to yell because it's no longer a conversation.

02:14:30.000 It's performative and it becomes dunking.

02:14:33.000 And so I was always able to sit down with actual communists, actual Antifa people, because I was able to say, ignore all this, ignore all the rest of the noise.

02:14:44.000 And you, it's just you and me at a table.

02:14:45.000 There's no speaker.

02:14:47.000 Charlie's was a different approach.

02:14:50.000 And I would actually say more confrontational in the sense that people get antsy and they feel like they have to perform for the audience.

02:14:57.000 So that's why I was able to, I've always been able to sit down with people no matter where they are.

02:15:01.000 Of course, if they call for the death, like violence of myself, I'm like, okay, interview over.

02:15:06.000 But it is a difference in approach.

02:15:09.000 Yeah, well, I'm willing to sit down with anyone.

02:15:12.000 And in doing that, I learned so much.

02:15:16.000 Nobody said don't do that.

02:15:18.000 Victor Davis Hansen actually said, if you can do it this well, by all means.

02:15:23.000 If you can't, there's a lot on the line.

02:15:28.000 No one said don't do it.

02:15:30.000 I even said I appreciated the way PBD did it.

02:15:32.000 I said I didn't love the way Tucker did it and I didn't.

02:15:35.000 And he said, well, fuck you.

02:15:36.000 Go to your own interview to everyone who said what I said.

02:15:38.000 And that's a fair point.

02:15:40.000 I just think that is the only way to address it.

02:15:45.000 Honestly, I would have thought you could have been harder on him.

02:15:49.000 But again, like, this is your interview.

02:15:51.000 And I understand why you weren't.

02:15:53.000 You were trying to acknowledge the feelings of the people that follow him.

02:15:57.000 And you think that's a better approach.

02:15:59.000 No, I wanted to be hard on the ideas where we disagree.

02:16:02.000 And I was.

02:16:03.000 And I'll stand by that, the ideas where we disagree and not hard on the sound bites.

02:16:06.000 And that was what I told Pierce too.

02:16:08.000 The platitudes, the, but you said this.

02:16:11.000 If I waste that much time on, but you said this, he goes, well, okay, yeah, but this is the context.

02:16:15.000 And maybe he didn't provide it before.

02:16:17.000 I'll never be able to get to, and I've seen this in change my mind after change my mind.

02:16:21.000 We're being able to recognize, and I've always said this is the single most valuable skill if you are looking to grow a movement or preserve it.

02:16:29.000 One skill, being able to identify the minds that you can change and the ones that you can't, meaning people who have taken a position by default, that's the liberal position in this country because of academia, because of our institutions, media, and the people who are the purveyors of said perspective, the James Camerons of the world, the Sean Penns, the Chuck Schumer's of the world.

02:16:54.000 And if you can delineate your approach is different.

02:16:56.000 One is a Socratic method.

02:16:57.000 It's rhetoric.

02:16:59.000 And the other is, okay, now you need to make an example of this person in the correct way so that everyone else's mind who can be changed, you can reach them.

02:17:08.000 And being able to, not saying I always do it, but I've gotten more reps in than anyone else going the person across from me, who am I trying to convince?

02:17:16.000 Them or the people watching?

02:17:19.000 And it defines my approach where sometimes it may seem softer than people realize and sometimes it may seem a lot harsher.

02:17:26.000 But that's the way I've always done it.

02:17:27.000 I've been doing it since 2008.

02:17:29.000 And I am glad to have, by the way, more people in the fold, even if we disagree.

02:17:34.000 And I do think that this was done in good faith.

02:17:36.000 Hopefully, you can come back at some point and we can find something to bitch about together. 0.99

02:17:41.000 Perfect.

02:17:41.000 I would love that.

02:17:42.000 And I appreciate you being willing to have me on.

02:17:46.000 And I really do.

02:17:48.000 Listen, again, obviously we don't agree on everything, but I really do respect a lot of your work in particular.

02:17:54.000 And not to say I disrespect some of your work.

02:17:58.000 I'm saying clearly, you know, we will have our fundamental disagreements based on just literally who I am as a person.

02:18:03.000 But having said that, I really like your work on monkeypox was incredible work.

02:18:08.000 And I did want the opportunity to tell you that.

02:18:11.000 And thank you for it.

02:18:12.000 Thank you very much.

02:18:13.000 I haven't talked about that in a while, but I don't think everyone's golden retriever develops monkeypox and a latex allergy.

02:18:20.000 So I remember that with that gay couple.

02:18:23.000 And you're like, oh, oh, we're getting more news in here, aren't we?

02:18:27.000 Oh, my gosh.

02:18:29.000 Okay.

02:18:29.000 Well, thank you again.

02:18:30.000 Thank you.

02:18:31.000 Where's the best place for people to find you, Jillian, before you go off for Christmas?

02:18:34.000 She's honestly just go to jillianmichaels.com.

02:18:37.000 Everything I do exists out of there.

02:18:40.000 Okay.

02:18:40.000 Jillian, Merry Christmas.

02:18:41.000 I appreciate it.

02:18:42.000 And I'm sure we'll talk with you.

02:18:43.000 Back out there.

02:18:44.000 Thank you again.

02:18:44.000 Have a good one.

02:18:45.000 Thank you very much.

02:18:46.000 Jillian Michaels, everybody.

02:18:52.000 All right, guys.

02:18:53.000 Sorry, that went over time and it even went over Rumble Premium time.

02:18:56.000 Hopefully you guys, do you want to, Daryl?

02:18:58.000 Should we take a couple of chats on premium?

02:18:59.000 Do you think we should do that?

02:19:01.000 What's that?

02:19:01.000 Just a few, yes.

02:19:02.000 Just a few?

02:19:03.000 All right.

02:19:04.000 Okay.

02:19:05.000 Come on.

02:19:05.000 Hit us to Rumble Premium there.

02:19:07.000 If you're not a member, click there, join.

02:19:09.000 Otherwise, you're going to watch someone.

02:19:10.000 I don't know who's broadcasting right now because we went late.

02:19:13.000 And hey, you get to see Crowder Gives back tomorrow where we do our Christmas episode and none of it happens if you don't give.

02:19:18.000 So I don't know why you hate poor families or the families of veterans wounded in service.

02:19:23.000 That's for you to take up with God.

Louder with Crowder - December 17, 2025

Vanity Fair's Susie Wiles Hit Piece: Who's To Blame PLUS Special Guest Jillian Michaels

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