Louder with Crowder - "We're Moving Towards a Police State" Dinesh D'Souza Reveals How The FBI & CIA Target The Right!

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00:00:34.000 All right, welcome everybody.

00:00:36.000 Obviously, Steven is out today, but don't worry, I am here taking the reins.

00:00:41.000 I don't do the sip like he does it because...

00:00:44.000 Let's just be honest, I think maybe I would choke on accidents and spit water out.

00:00:47.000 And, you know, we don't want to do that on a live show.

00:00:49.000 Everybody's going to know it's never going to go away.

00:00:51.000 It's just going to live on forever.

00:00:53.000 But just remember, this is a live show Monday through Friday, 10 a.m.

00:00:56.000 Eastern Time.

00:00:57.000 We will be here.

00:00:58.000 And I have a very special show for you today.

00:01:00.000 I think you're going to really enjoy the topics that we've covered.

00:01:03.000 And let me just before we get too deep into this, let me just tell you a little bit about some of the stories that we've covered in the past that really tie in directly to what we're going to be talking about with our guest today.

00:01:13.000 We've repeatedly discussed the negative impact of government overreach and bureaucracy.

00:01:19.000 We've done it when we talk about all the three-letter agencies, right?

00:01:21.000 The FBI, the CIA.

00:01:23.000 When we talk about Attorney General Merrick Garland's letter about the school boards and all the extremists, these concerned parents in Loudoun County was one of the big ones that we all talked about, but these concerned parents at the school board meetings are extremists and Need to be treated as such.

00:01:39.000 And then who can forget Joe Biden going after MAGA in front of the Nazi-esque background with all of the red kind of, you know, color behind him.

00:01:47.000 It was really bad optics.

00:01:50.000 But you have the President of the United States singling out essentially half the country and saying that these are people that we need to be worried about.

00:01:57.000 This is something that needs to be dealt with.

00:01:59.000 These are extremists. 1.00

00:02:00.000 These are white supremacists. 0.88

00:02:01.000 These kind of labels and these things get thrown around all the time and they set up a system where

00:02:08.000 things can go very wrong very quickly.

00:02:10.000 And I've talked to you a number of times about other instances in history where that's happened.

00:02:16.000 In Nazi Germany, how they kind of laid the groundwork for calling the Jews the problem, right? 0.76

00:02:21.000 And the solution being, well, these people are subhuman. 0.93

00:02:25.000 They're causing all of our problems, and so therefore the atrocities are justified.

00:02:29.000 Or if you talk about it in Cambodia with the Khmer Rouge, they did similar things to this.

00:02:33.000 Like, these people are going to be the problem.

00:02:35.000 We have to take care of all of the intellectuals who want to keep us from becoming This agrarian superpower that can rule the world or whatever other group you want. 1.00

00:02:43.000 Anytime you other a group and make them subhuman where they are a threat to democracy during COVID.

00:02:49.000 People who didn't get the vaccine.

00:02:50.000 Those are people that if they go to a hospital, they should have to stand outside and die of a heart attack because somebody else who had the vaccine is taking care of themselves and they should be treated first.

00:03:00.000 Like that kind of thing.

00:03:01.000 You don't have a job.

00:03:02.000 You don't have a place to live.

00:03:03.000 You don't have any ability to travel.

00:03:06.000 Sounds a lot more like communist China than it does the United States of America.

00:03:11.000 And he said, Stephen, many times talking about this, that candidates that are running for public office, not just president, but candidates in general, need to be ready to answer the question on defunding the FBI.

00:03:23.000 Would you defund the FBI with all that we know now and all that you're going to learn today about the FBI and some of the things that it's doing?

00:03:30.000 We need to get rid of these agencies in their current form.

00:03:34.000 And for a while we talked about reform and we just feel like we're way past the ability to reform.

00:03:40.000 But our next guest has been, uh, unfortunately well acquainted with government overreach and has decided to release, uh, another movie, uh, that I think is going to be really interesting and pretty impactful, uh, and a lot of fun to watch, uh, other than it scares the hell out of you.

00:03:54.000 you. But here here's some highlights of the new movie Police State.

00:03:58.000 Chief Division Council on D O. J. Approved the no not breach.

00:04:16.000 you We want the subject to be on display.

00:04:21.000 Doing the walk of shame, full visual impact.

00:04:25.000 Any questions?

00:04:26.000 Are we becoming a police state?

00:04:30.000 The government told American citizens they couldn't go to church on Sunday.

00:04:33.000 For the first time in my life, I say to myself, am I going to get a knock at the door?

00:04:37.000 Come to the door now! 0.76

00:04:37.000 FBI warrant! 0.76

00:04:38.000 The Patriot Act and FISA were used against Donald Trump.

00:04:42.000 These individuals have commissioned the biggest propaganda play in U.S.

00:04:48.000 history.

00:04:49.000 They don't go after the people that rigged the election.

00:04:52.000 They go after the people that want to find out what the hell happened.

00:04:56.000 We don't need to have a crime.

00:04:58.000 What we need is a person to look at.

00:05:02.000 And then we go find out what crime you did.

00:05:04.000 FBI!

00:05:05.000 Our focus is shifting.

00:05:07.000 Our main priority as a bureau is going to be domestic terrorism.

00:05:10.000 It really paints anybody who's right of center.

00:05:13.000 If you're a pro-life, pro-family Catholic, they define you as radical.

00:05:17.000 These are anti-government.

00:05:18.000 We have freedom of religion and freedom of speech!

00:05:21.000 Violent extremists, and they must be dealt with.

00:05:26.000 We can do anything we want.

00:05:28.000 Chilling stuff and if the cat's not already out of the bag, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome our next guest, Dinesh

00:05:44.000 the next video.

00:05:44.000 D'Souza.

00:05:49.000 Dinesh, thank you very much for being with us.

00:05:51.000 I know that you are probably a very busy man right now doing the promotion for this, but thanks for being with us here.

00:05:57.000 It's a real pleasure.

00:05:58.000 My first time here and it's quite a spot.

00:06:01.000 It's an experience.

00:06:02.000 When people come in, they're used to seeing studios where maybe it's a small room and somebody gets in front of a mic and they have a nice setup, but this is a sprawling complex, essentially, to do all the stuff that we do.

00:06:13.000 We discuss stuff like this that will absolutely make your skin crawl.

00:06:16.000 And then we do other comedy stuff where we have people dress up as film characters and make fun.

00:06:20.000 And so we kind of, it goes the spectrum.

00:06:22.000 We're fine with it.

00:06:23.000 But so let me really quickly, I just want to tell people where they can find this right off the top.

00:06:27.000 So PoliceStateFilm.net is where you go to get tickets for the premiere October 23rd and 25th.

00:06:33.000 Now that's in theaters.

00:06:34.000 You said you have around 700 theaters right now nationwide?

00:06:37.000 Yeah, we've bought out hundreds of theaters, and the cool thing is if you go to the website, put in your zip code, boom, all the theaters around you will pop up, and then it's... I made the film for the theater, so it's really fun to see in the theater, but if you can't see it in the theater, then on Friday, October 27th, we have a virtual premiere where you can watch at home the full screening of the film, and then a live Q&A with Dan Bongino and me to follow, and it's all for the price of a movie ticket.

00:07:03.000 Fantastic!

00:07:04.000 So on the virtual premiere, do you still go to PoliceStateFilm.net for that?

00:07:08.000 Yeah, it's the one-stop shop, and that's important because you can't go to the theater or go to Fandango.

00:07:13.000 You have to buy the tickets off the website, so PoliceStateFilm.net is the place to go.

00:07:18.000 Fantastic.

00:07:19.000 Alright, PoliceStateFilm.net.

00:07:21.000 Also, it'll be available on Rumble and other platforms and DVD after all of this is done, after the premiere and after the October 27th So tell us just a little bit about this film, right?

00:07:35.000 So you've obviously dealt with this and I kind of alluded to that.

00:07:40.000 Tell us kind of what made you think, okay, I need to make a film about this and really expose what's going on here.

00:07:47.000 Was it your personal interactions or was it that plus more?

00:07:50.000 No, I would say it wasn't my own personal case, even though I sort of got an early whiff of the police state.

00:07:57.000 A little bit.

00:07:58.000 I gotta say that in my case, which goes back to 2013, a campaign finance violation, and I did exceed the campaign finance law, I gotta say that up front, but normally it's an offense for which you'd get a slap on the wrist, a community service, or a fine.

00:08:12.000 Rosie O'Donnell did the same thing, essentially, and did get the slap on the wrist. 1.00

00:08:16.000 Well, Rosie O'Donnell did something actually far worse.

00:08:18.000 Is it worse?

00:08:18.000 Yeah, because what she did was she camouflaged her contributions to multiple candidates.

00:08:23.000 She knew she was going above the limit because she kept changing the spelling of her name.

00:08:29.000 So it was in one case it's R. O'Donnell, then it's Rosie O'Donnell, then it's Rosie, you know.

00:08:35.000 So Rosie spelled with a Y. 0.98

00:08:37.000 She was trying but not very hard.

00:08:39.000 But in a blatant way and see that's what they're looking for is the intent to break the law which was not true in my case.

00:08:45.000 I was giving money to a college friend and even when when my case came up I saw it as a one-off because I just made a film about Obama.

00:08:53.000 You know, I know the guy is a vindictive narcissist and I thought, oh my gosh, I should have known there's a target on my back.

00:08:59.000 He's going to unleash Eric Holder and his attack dogs.

00:09:02.000 I didn't see my case then as being a prelude or a precursor to what would happen to Carter Page, Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn, of course now Trump.

00:09:12.000 So I didn't see the police state coming with the rapidity that it has under Biden.

00:09:19.000 I think the way I think about it is I flash back to when I first came to America at the age of 17 as an exchange student.

00:09:25.000 This was actually in the very late 1970s.

00:09:28.000 And as I learned about America, you know, I of course enjoyed the great abundance of America and the possibilities, the upward mobility.

00:09:36.000 But I also learned that this country is great because it's got this bill of rights and you've got these enumerated rights which are not open for political negotiation.

00:09:45.000 That's the key.

00:09:46.000 That's the meaning of unalienable rights.

00:09:48.000 You can't give them up.

00:09:50.000 And majorities can't take them away. 0.96

00:09:51.000 Right to free speech, right to conscience, right to assembly, to petition the government, equal rights and equal justice under the law.

00:10:01.000 And so fast forward to now and ask yourself, Is a single one of those rights now completely secure?

00:10:08.000 No.

00:10:08.000 Every single one is in jeopardy.

00:10:10.000 And so the chilling question pressed itself on me.

00:10:14.000 Are we becoming a police state?

00:10:16.000 And I thought, that's a very interesting topic for a movie.

00:10:19.000 So it's not just about the FBI.

00:10:21.000 It's not even just about the police agencies of the government.

00:10:24.000 It's not just even about the government.

00:10:26.000 Our police state sprawls even into the private sector.

00:10:29.000 It's a weird octopus.

00:10:31.000 Stretching across the private and public sector, both.

00:10:33.000 But the film brings it home to you, I think, in a way that nothing else can.

00:10:38.000 Yeah, well, and you and I talked about one of my greatest fears off-camera.

00:10:41.000 I'm not sure that I'm gonna tell everybody.

00:10:43.000 But it revolves around this and unjust incarceration, so...

00:10:47.000 Nobody come after me for that, but I want to read a quote from you really quickly about Police State.

00:10:52.000 So Police State, this is the quote directly.

00:10:54.000 Police State is a movie that I never wanted to make because I never wanted America to get to a point where a movie like this needed to be made.

00:11:04.000 I feel like the animal that alerts the herd to approaching danger so we can take precautionary steps before it's too late.

00:11:11.000 I think that's fair because I've realized that a lot of people that do stuff like you do, whether it's people who are out there speaking up on Google—we had Dr. Robert Epstein in here—kind of felt like the same way, and that guy's the furthest thing from a Republican that you can probably imagine.

00:11:28.000 Supported Hillary Clinton was definitely somebody in, you know, Bernie's camp if Bernie would be the nominee. 0.99

00:11:34.000 Joe Biden was somebody that he supported as well, but he saw something that would tear at the fabric of our democracy, right?

00:11:42.000 Our democratic republic could not survive if A corporation could do something like this.

00:11:47.000 Now, we've focused a lot on this show talking about those big corporations and the influence they have, and you say that this kind of is an intersection of all of these different things.

00:11:55.000 It's not just the three-letter agencies and the government.

00:11:58.000 It's the private sector as well.

00:11:59.000 And then, one of the most chilling things that we've seen historically in societies that become police states is your next-door neighbor.

00:12:09.000 Because they've bought the lie that if they don't turn you in, they're against the state.

00:12:15.000 They're against what these values that these corporations are espousing are.

00:12:20.000 So you obviously, like you said, it wasn't necessarily a specific moment that led you to do this film.

00:12:26.000 But what is the goal of the film?

00:12:29.000 What do you want to see happen?

00:12:31.000 I know you did 2000 Mules.

00:12:33.000 And the goal there is much more clear.

00:12:35.000 It's like, okay, we have to stop this particular practice with elections, and we need to make some headway there.

00:12:42.000 That's pretty clear.

00:12:42.000 Right, got that.

00:12:44.000 What do we do here?

00:12:45.000 What's the goal?

00:12:46.000 Well, the goal here is to do what I think a documentary can do best, which is to raise a big question about society, to frame it in the correct way, which is to say to frame it in a fair and urgent way, To allow people to see for themselves and experience an unfolding storyline or phenomenon that really gets them to look into themselves and talk to others and think about it and then ask what can be done about it.

00:13:18.000 So the film creates the awareness without which people don't act.

00:13:23.000 So for example a lot of people are going to say You know, I'm not Donald Trump.

00:13:27.000 I didn't go in the Capitol on January 6th.

00:13:30.000 I didn't get into big fights with the cops.

00:13:32.000 I pay my taxes.

00:13:33.000 I'm a law-abiding guy.

00:13:34.000 The FBI is not going to come to my door, Dinesh, and smash it in.

00:13:38.000 Now, I think that guy could not be more wrong.

00:13:41.000 And I even am approached by guys on the left, and they go, well, Dinesh, no one's banning me.

00:13:46.000 You know, I'm not threatened by the DHS.

00:13:49.000 And I go, yeah, but Could that be because you're helping to build the police state?

00:13:53.000 In other words, our police state is... It's not a full-fledged police state yet.

00:13:58.000 In fact, if it was a full-fledged police state, I admit, this film could not be made.

00:14:01.000 And we wouldn't be doing this show.

00:14:02.000 Yeah, we couldn't be doing this show.

00:14:03.000 I'd be turning you in right now.

00:14:06.000 Getting an award.

00:14:06.000 Or vice versa.

00:14:08.000 Come on! 0.61

00:14:09.000 So anyway but my point is that that that we are moving we are hurtling toward a police state and and so the the line you quoted from me being an animal giving a warning too many Americans are like the antelope or the wildebeest that basically goes oh yeah I saw that too but it's just the wind Dinesh it's not a predator in the trees or maybe it is a predator but guess what I'm gonna hope it's not gonna land on my back maybe somebody else's back Yeah.

00:14:39.000 So you want to raise the awareness not just of the Republicans, and we talked about this beforehand too, because I think the audience, like our audience certainly, this should not be a surprise to them, right?

00:14:50.000 It'd be a very informative movie, but I see like a lot of head bobbing in the theater if a lot of our audience is there because they'll be like, this just connects, this lines up exactly with what we've been talking about.

00:15:01.000 I get it, I understand it.

00:15:03.000 Are you trying to reach that broader audience?

00:15:05.000 Because I think We believe that you have to have a broader audience.

00:15:09.000 This can't be us just preaching to the choir the whole time, and I know the adage is that's how you get them to sing, and that's fine.

00:15:15.000 You want to mobilize people, but at the same time, you have to let other people in this process know what's going on.

00:15:21.000 How do you do that effectively and really get across the whole political boundaries?

00:15:27.000 Well, sometimes it is harder to do than at other times.

00:15:30.000 So with my last film, 2000 Mules, because the topic was election fraud, the movie came out at a time, this was a year after the 2020 election, when people were already dug in.

00:15:41.000 And so a lot of people were like, I knew it!

00:15:44.000 I'm going to see this movie and it's going to validate what I think.

00:15:47.000 And then there were other people who were like, I'm not going to see this movie.

00:15:49.000 And in fact, there were so-called fact checks on the film, bogus fact checks, but nevertheless, they were like, we've seen this film, so you don't have to, you know?

00:15:58.000 And I'm sure a lot of people were like, yeah, I'm not going to watch that film because I already know that this was the safest and securest election in history.

00:16:04.000 So it was tough with 2,000 meals.

00:16:07.000 And the police state, on the other hand, I think can reach a much wider audience, because almost everyone has a factual awareness of the things I'm describing.

00:16:16.000 I mean, let's look at what we're talking about.

00:16:18.000 We're talking about censorship.

00:16:20.000 I mean, let's look at the characteristics of any police state.

00:16:23.000 Let's look at North Korea, Iran, China, the old Soviet Union. 0.69

00:16:27.000 What did those regimes have in common?

00:16:30.000 Well, mass surveillance of citizens.

00:16:33.000 Systematic censorship.

00:16:35.000 Check.

00:16:37.000 Indoctrination in the schools and universities and the media.

00:16:41.000 Check.

00:16:42.000 Propaganda.

00:16:43.000 Check.

00:16:45.000 The police states tend to be one-party states.

00:16:48.000 Not that they don't have elections.

00:16:50.000 China has elections.

00:16:51.000 Iran has elections.

00:16:52.000 But they don't allow effective opposition.

00:16:55.000 They criminalize, they try to lock up effective leaders of the opposition party.

00:16:59.000 check, criminalization of dissent, political prisoners.

00:17:04.000 So just go down the list and you realize, whoa, not just most, all of the things I just

00:17:09.000 mentioned are now here in the United States.

00:17:12.000 Now- Some further along than others, right?

00:17:14.000 Some further along than others.

00:17:15.000 And much more obvious.

00:17:16.000 And the weird thing about this debate is also that you will find people on the left and

00:17:21.000 you say, do you think America's becoming a police state?

00:17:23.000 And their answer is, Dinesh, 100%.

00:17:27.000 the perpetrator of the police status Trump or the Republicans are the ones who are trying to take away our liberties.

00:17:34.000 They're trying to shut down abortion. 0.91

00:17:36.000 They're trying to go after the trans. 0.97

00:17:38.000 So, freedom is interpreted in that way, and using that lens.

00:17:42.000 So, the way I frame this film is a little original.

00:17:45.000 It's not just, are we becoming a police state?

00:17:47.000 But, who's right?

00:17:49.000 If we are moving toward a police state, is the threat coming from the left or from the right?

00:17:54.000 And I set up the film by saying, alright, we can answer that question if we know what is a police state.

00:18:00.000 How it got started, how it's organized, how it works, and who's behind it, and who is in charge.

00:18:08.000 And once we know the answer to those questions, you'll know where the threat is coming from.

00:18:13.000 And you used a lot of very public examples of this.

00:18:18.000 And honestly, I didn't know all of the details for all of this, but there were a couple that struck me.

00:18:23.000 The first guy that you used, and I forget his name, you probably remember it, who went to January 6th, had some footage.

00:18:30.000 Yeah, thank you.

00:18:32.000 So he went there, had some footage, never went in, never violated, to my understanding, any laws that you would know, okay, well, I'm crossing a boundary and I'm making the choice to do that or not.

00:18:44.000 He just was there, had some footage, and was showing some friends back at his bar, not his bar, but at a bar he frequented.

00:18:51.000 And all of a sudden, a neighbor of his turns him in.

00:18:55.000 So give us just a little bit of insight into that.

00:18:57.000 Cause for me, that was one of the most average everyday American stories.

00:19:01.000 This isn't like a public figure.

00:19:02.000 This isn't somebody who was kind of skating on the edge.

00:19:05.000 This is somebody just happened to be there on January 6th.

00:19:08.000 And in fact, was quoted in the movie as saying, I started seeing guys climbing the walls and it was like, ah, something's wrong here.

00:19:14.000 I think I'm, I think I'm done.

00:19:15.000 You know, I think I'm absolutely.

00:19:17.000 You've got, you know, a 75-year-old guy who walks with a cane, and this is a guy who almost wanted to be there just to be part of a historic event, so to speak.

00:19:30.000 He was intrigued by Trump, but he wasn't a full-scale Trumpster, and he certainly did not go inside the Capitol.

00:19:36.000 But this comes back to what you alluded to a few minutes ago about informants.

00:19:40.000 the idea of your neighbor and of course in police states your wife you know your

00:19:45.000 kids are calling you in and so a neighbor calls him in but the

00:19:50.000 remarkable thing isn't just that someone felt to do that you know that that

00:19:54.000 little tyrannical impulse in all of us I'm gonna get this guy I'm gonna be you

00:19:59.000 know it's the mentality that makes one want to be an apparatchik in a regime

00:20:04.000 A very interesting psychology.

00:20:06.000 The other interesting thing is that the FBI made no effort to verify that this guy went in the Capitol.

00:20:11.000 Instead, they deploy a SWAT team.

00:20:14.000 And he's over actually at his mom's house so they sent two SWAT teams.

00:20:21.000 One to his apartment where he wasn't and they smash into it and he's not there.

00:20:25.000 Then they go to his mom's rehabilitation center and they smash that place in and they go arrest him there.

00:20:33.000 And then they subject him to six or seven hours of interrogation in an FBI truck Where the guy is so flustered.

00:20:41.000 In fact, he's flustered in part because he sees NBC showing up with the cameras.

00:20:46.000 And think of it, this is all coordinated, isn't it?

00:20:48.000 They tip off the media.

00:20:51.000 Public humiliation is the name of the game here.

00:20:54.000 And the guy has a stroke.

00:20:55.000 Yeah.

00:20:55.000 So all of this, this is what I think documentaries do.

00:20:58.000 They unfurl a narrative and the beauty of this guy is he's a high-tech guy and he's a little, you know, he's scared.

00:21:05.000 He lives alone so he installed cameras in his own apartment.

00:21:08.000 I saw that, yeah.

00:21:09.000 So he has direct footage of what the FBI is doing and I think very telling when the FBI comes to his door They try to cover the camera.

00:21:17.000 They don't want recorded footage, but they don't realize he has a second camera, and so we got the footage, and it's in the movie.

00:21:24.000 But it's very creepy, because you begin to realize it could easily happen to you.

00:21:28.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:29.000 And look, that's one of the reasons that we got so frustrated with this whole, and I'm not going to derail on January 6th, but the January 6th hearings.

00:21:37.000 And the Adam Kinzinger and, gosh, I'm losing her name, Liz Cheney, giving that credibility When it was really just political theater like it wasn't a real investigation and two republicans who wanted to I guess be at the cool kids table essentially gave something that should have had no credibility credibility and now not only do we feel like

00:22:02.000 Maybe those guys that turned him in felt like, hey, that's justified.

00:22:05.000 He was there.

00:22:05.000 Maybe I am helping the government catch a real criminal because I saw they had hearings on this.

00:22:10.000 This was the worst attack on democracy in our country's history, and it was the worst attack on us since 9-11. 0.79

00:22:16.000 It was 9-11 Part 2, essentially.

00:22:19.000 Like, people making that equivocation and not immediately saying, well, no, hold on, here's what happened.

00:22:24.000 That's why it's so dangerous, because it sets the stage for everybody to go, you were there January 6th. 0.77

00:22:29.000 Yes, and this is where a lot of conservatives miss the point, because they will say, what a ridiculous analogy.

00:22:37.000 This was not an insurrection.

00:22:38.000 You can't compare it to the Civil War.

00:22:41.000 Or even when Hillary Clinton said very recently, you know, these MAGA guys are sort of cult guys.

00:22:47.000 They need to be formally reprogrammed.

00:22:49.000 Now, what's Hillary Clinton doing? 1.00

00:22:51.000 And some people go, well, here she goes again! 0.57

00:22:53.000 Basket of deplorables!

00:22:55.000 No, no, no.

00:22:56.000 What Hillary's doing is the same thing that happened, for example, at Waco in the 1990s, which is, when you say that somebody's an occult, and you make them into being a complete weirdo, you're dehumanizing them.

00:23:09.000 For sure.

00:23:10.000 And the American people in the 1990s were horrified when they saw all those buildings burning at Waco, but they were like, well, it's not me.

00:23:10.000 Right?

00:23:17.000 Those people were kooks.

00:23:18.000 Yeah.

00:23:18.000 They were cult members, they were up to God knows what, and that's why this happened.

00:23:23.000 So that's what Hillary's going for. 0.97

00:23:25.000 She's trying to turn the political opposition, she wants to dehumanize us as maybe a prelude or a leading up to incarceration and of course in the Nazi case it was also 0.74

00:23:40.000 extermination so this can go down a very dangerous road dark road very dark very

00:23:46.000 quickly and I and I you know we're you're always careful using the Nazi 0.84

00:23:50.000 comparison right because people say that and I say well look I'm careful using it

00:23:53.000 but it's one of the most instructive pieces of history that we have on how this

00:23:58.000 can play out and if people are uncomfortable with that well let's go to the Khmer 1.00

00:24:02.000 Rouge right I spent some time in Cambodia and Phnom Penh and I saw the

00:24:06.000 killing fields I was Sam Waterton I think or I think that's his name the guy

00:24:10.000 from now I'm forgetting Ah, Law and Order.

00:24:13.000 There we go.

00:24:14.000 The dudunt was playing in my head. 1.00

00:24:15.000 I just couldn't think of it.

00:24:17.000 He is in that movie, and they basically have a camp out in the rice fields, kind of in the countryside of Cambodia, and they bring a child up to the board, and there's stick figures drawn on the board of two, obviously, parents holding the hands of two children.

00:24:31.000 Right?

00:24:32.000 And the child walks up and is not given any instruction, but takes the eraser and

00:24:35.000 erases the part where it's holding the parents holding the child's hand.

00:24:39.000 Basically saying like, I do not belong to my parents.

00:24:42.000 I belong to the state.

00:24:43.000 Right?

00:24:44.000 And so kind of creating this, if you're a good citizen, you are

00:24:49.000 serving the state above all else.

00:24:51.000 You are serving the common good.

00:24:52.000 Get your COVID vaccination above all else.

00:24:55.000 Wear your mask and make sure that you close down your business above all else.

00:24:59.000 And these other people will just drip.

00:25:01.000 We'll keep dripping on these people so that eventually you think of them as being kind of these subhuman people. 1.00

00:25:07.000 It happened In Nazi Germany the same way.

00:25:10.000 It happened in Cambodia in pretty much the same way.

00:25:12.000 It's happened in countries in Africa that have had these crazy, um, you know, the killing fields in the kind of the same way these people are subhuman.

00:25:20.000 And that's why we push back on it.

00:25:22.000 Uh, but, uh, before I get too far, I guess, down that trail, sorry, I just, uh, it's just, it really irritates me when people don't follow one of the most easy to follow lessons in all of history, which is Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

00:25:34.000 Like read about the 1930s, what was going on.

00:25:37.000 One of the things we do in the film with that is we use an analogy to the Reichstag fire.

00:25:43.000 Now, again, when we're talking about the Nazis, there is Hitler circa 1933, and that's really where I think the examples are useful, because Hitler wasn't, quote, Hitler.

00:25:55.000 I mean, in other words, you didn't have the Holocaust, you didn't have the final solution. 0.77

00:25:59.000 So when we think of Nazi Germany, we tend to think about the death camps and so on,

00:26:04.000 but that comes later.

00:26:06.000 Early in 1933, Hitler is the chancellor, but he's not a dictator yet.

00:26:11.000 And then what happens is a foreign communist burns the Reichstag, the German parliament. 0.68

00:26:17.000 And initially it's not clear who did it, but Hitler implies the dark conspiratorial 0.80

00:26:24.000 forces did it.

00:26:26.000 In fact, Hitler says this was an insurrection, and Hitler says we have to relentlessly go

00:26:31.000 after the people who did this.

00:26:33.000 And to do that, I need police powers.

00:26:36.000 I need to suspend civil liberties.

00:26:38.000 I need censorship.

00:26:39.000 And all of this is then handed to him by the German parliament, and then Hitler becomes 0.86

00:26:43.000 a dictator.

00:26:44.000 He becomes what we now know as Hitler. 0.79

00:26:45.000 He builds the opposition.

00:26:47.000 So the Reichstag fire is instructive historically because it shows how an incident, a real incident, can nevertheless be manipulated, used as a pretext for a widespread crackdown and suspension of civil liberties.

00:27:02.000 So I think this is the relevance of January 6th.

00:27:04.000 It was a Reichstag fire event.

00:27:06.000 It's not that it wasn't an event, it was, but by manipulating the meaning of the event, and as you say, the terminology of the event, you can then justify, now we need to ramp up digital censorship.

00:27:19.000 Now you can't even talk about a stolen election because, hey, guess what, you're one of the insurrectionists.

00:27:25.000 And so January 6th in that sense becomes a pivotal, and I think for the first time in our country's history, In non-wartime, we have political prisoners.

00:27:35.000 We've had political prisoners in wartime, and we can talk about that, but in non-wartime, I can't think of good examples of that, and January 6th, I think, will be seen historically as a very ugly first.

00:27:48.000 It will absolutely, and you're talking like 17, 18, 20 year prison terms for people in the Department of Justice coming back for seconds now.

00:27:55.000 I don't know if you read that recently.

00:27:56.000 I did, I did.

00:27:57.000 But that's something that should send kind of a chill down everybody's spine who's watching this.

00:28:02.000 You can think what you want to think about what happened on January 6th, but you think they should be getting more prison time than a rapist?

00:28:09.000 Let me make one further point on January 6th, because I think this gets to the heart of the false narrative.

00:28:18.000 And I think this is an original point that is made in the film, namely this.

00:28:22.000 According to the kind of January 6th committee's official narrative, the Trumpsters went into the Capitol because they were trying to stop an official proceeding.

00:28:34.000 What was that official proceeding?

00:28:36.000 Well, according to the narrative, it was the certification of the election.

00:28:41.000 But if you think about it, and if you pay attention to what was actually going on in that proceeding, that was not happening at all.

00:28:48.000 There was an official proceeding, but it was a different proceeding.

00:28:51.000 It was called contesting the election.

00:28:54.000 And there were many Republicans, and I'm talking about mainstream Republicans, Ted Cruz and others, they were going to challenge Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, they were going to challenge the election in the swing states.

00:29:07.000 That is the process that somebody wanted to stop.

00:29:10.000 The Democrats.

00:29:11.000 They didn't want the questioning of the election to occur.

00:29:14.000 So think about it.

00:29:15.000 January 6th was actually not what the Trumpsters wanted.

00:29:18.000 The Trumpsters wanted the opposite.

00:29:20.000 They wanted the questioning of the election to continue.

00:29:23.000 And yet, the moment that you had January 6th, the Republicans were so sort of downcast and dejected that they came right back and they're like, OK, forget about all that.

00:29:32.000 Let's just certify Biden.

00:29:34.000 So January 6th was a bonanza for the left.

00:29:38.000 And I think by twisting that history, we got the false narrative that has been one-sidedly promulgated by the January 6th committee.

00:29:47.000 Well, so let me dive in kind of off of that, because you had a lot of people questioning whether there were feds involved with January 6th.

00:29:53.000 Were they just embedded?

00:29:54.000 Were they there trying to stop potential plots?

00:29:57.000 You've got a very large crowd in Washington.

00:29:57.000 I understand that.

00:29:59.000 You've got a very charged atmosphere.

00:30:01.000 You've got a very kind of charismatic president who has lost an election in their eyes, but has basically been cheated out of an election in most of his followers' eyes.

00:30:13.000 We never really got answers as to how many federal agents were involved with that because there were people like Ray Epps and I know that some stuff has happened with him that was kind of a lightning rod for it because there's film there's footage of him saying we're gonna go to the Capitol and people are like Fed Fed this guy's a Fed right and he's seen there whispering to somebody right before they start doing so with these agencies Do you think that we should defund the FBI and some of the other agencies potentially?

00:30:40.000 Let's start with the FBI and not lump them in with other people because you can think about this.

00:30:44.000 And yes, please comment below and let me know what you think.

00:30:47.000 Do we defund the FBI?

00:30:48.000 And if we do, what should we put in its place?

00:30:52.000 Well, these agencies have become rotted through and through.

00:30:58.000 Now, that itself requires a little bit of explanation because it's a bit of a puzzle.

00:31:03.000 Many people who go into the FBI are conservative.

00:31:05.000 They are guys with a military background.

00:31:08.000 They're patriotic guys.

00:31:10.000 So, it's not correct to say that kind of an evil force has taken over the FBI from top to bottom.

00:31:18.000 That makes no sense.

00:31:19.000 In fact, no police state functions that way.

00:31:21.000 The genius of every police state is it figures out how to make good people do really bad things.

00:31:27.000 So let's look at a really bad thing.

00:31:29.000 An FBI agent at 5.30 in the morning smashes the apartment of a 70-year-old grandmother who, let's say, went into the Capitol for 15 minutes.

00:31:37.000 Yeah.

00:31:38.000 Goes up to her, she resists, so he grabs her by the hair, twists her arms behind her back, puts the handcuffs on her, she resists some more, so he pulls her down the stairs, out into the street, her neighbors come out and gawk at her, they're like, oh my god, the woman is just absolutely destroyed and humiliated, so what would cause a nice guy, a decent guy with a family, lives in a three-bedroom house, to do this?

00:32:00.000 I think I can answer that question.

00:32:02.000 And that is, what police states do is they operationalize or bureaucratize the task at hand.

00:32:10.000 They never say what the ultimate goal is.

00:32:13.000 They merely define a sort of a project.

00:32:17.000 A few weeks ago, I was watching a documentary on Waco, and they were talking to the FBI.

00:32:23.000 They call him a hostage negotiator, but he's basically a killer.

00:32:26.000 He's a sniper.

00:32:27.000 And he goes, yeah, listen, when all else fails, they bring me in, right?

00:32:31.000 And the interviewer asks him, they go, hey, you know, did you know who David Koresh was?

00:32:35.000 Did you know anything about Waco, about the people in there, the Branch Davidians?

00:32:39.000 He goes, no.

00:32:40.000 He goes, when I come in, they just point and tell me, there's a bad guy.

00:32:45.000 There's an enemy of truth and justice and the American way. 1.00

00:32:48.000 Take out your long rifle, kill that guy. 0.99

00:32:51.000 And so this guy is like a soldier, you know? 0.99

00:32:53.000 So he defines his task as he is serving his country, he's doing a good job, he will get a bonus and a promotion if he carries out his duty.

00:33:03.000 And his duty, as defined here, is take out that bad guy.

00:33:07.000 So I think what happens with the police state is that you've got good guys who get the idea that, hey, the FBI is not that interested right now in child trafficking.

00:33:15.000 They're not interested right now in even the old-style mafia stuff that made them famous.

00:33:20.000 They're interested in domestic extremists.

00:33:25.000 And if you want to be cool with the FBI, you want to be part of the in-crowd, you want to get a nice bonus at the end of the year, you don't want to be seen as a troublemaker, you want to retire with a nice pension...

00:33:36.000 This is what you do.

00:33:37.000 Don't ask her, so don't worry about the grandmother.

00:33:39.000 The courts will deal with her. 0.95

00:33:41.000 Your job is just to apprehend her and this is how we do it.

00:33:44.000 Well and trust in the institutions that are here that have, I mean historically maybe they've never been completely trustworthy, but as Americans we have had a lot more trust in our institutions than we have in the last say 20 years.

00:33:57.000 Some of the wool has been kind of pulled over eyes, I think for a long time, but now we're thinking like okay

00:34:02.000 Wait a minute. Maybe we can't just give blind trust to this I remember you made me think of something like how do

00:34:07.000 normal people end up doing horrible things?

00:34:09.000 Well, it's happened. It happened in Germany in that example Do you think that they were a more murderous people like 0.85

00:34:14.000 the Germans wanted to go and kill? 0.65

00:34:16.000 Innocent people men women and children No, they weren't more murderous than their neighbors were.

00:34:20.000 It happened there for a very specific set of reasons, and it shows you that populations can turn into these very kind of evil things.

00:34:30.000 I remember in high school I asked my professor, because he was talking to me about ancient history, his history professor, and he was talking about the Assyrians, and they would do public peelings and public disembowelments to keep people in line, these communities that they had conquered.

00:34:41.000 And I just thought to myself, like, how do these guys go home?

00:34:44.000 And he goes, no, I know, like these soldiers go home to their wife, they go home to their kids, and they've done these barbaric things to them.

00:34:50.000 And he says, do you think they loved it?

00:34:53.000 No, I don't think that that's the easy answer that we can just apply to everybody.

00:34:57.000 It was in service of the state.

00:35:00.000 You can't just convince people to do bad things.

00:35:03.000 Hamas is a really good example of this, I think, as well. 1.00

00:35:05.000 And obviously, we've had that issue that happened a little while ago with the Gaza Hospital and all the stuff that had come out there.

00:35:11.000 Like, oh, well, actually, Hamas lied, right?

00:35:13.000 The hospital wasn't hit.

00:35:14.000 It was the parking lot that was hit, and it was actually one of the missiles being fired by the Islamic Jihad, which is kind of, again, the basic name of jihad.

00:35:22.000 Like, all of them are Islamic, and all of them jihad. 1.00

00:35:24.000 They didn't really put a lot of effort into the branding there.

00:35:26.000 They just kind of went with the most basic title.

00:35:28.000 And you're seeing what happens is you're convincing people that this is in service to something greater than yourself, and these are the enemies.

00:35:39.000 They're trusting in the Islamic leadership in Hamas, right? 1.00

00:35:42.000 They're trusting, like, these are enemies of us.

00:35:44.000 Trust me, this is what God wants you to do. 0.98

00:35:46.000 The Assyrians are trusting in their leadership, saying, trust me, if we don't do this to these populations, they will try and overthrow us and kill you and your family. 1.00

00:35:54.000 And so they put that on the chopping block.

00:35:56.000 And I think what's happening right now In the United States is conservatives are the enemy because they don't care about you.

00:36:02.000 Covid kind of laid some of the groundwork for that.

00:36:04.000 It continued it.

00:36:05.000 And they're not interested in having free and fair elections.

00:36:09.000 They're interested in installing a dictator in Donald Trump.

00:36:12.000 And so in the film, you talk quite a bit about President Trump and what's been going on and kind of alluding to him in different parts of the film.

00:36:20.000 With the FBI, we talked about maybe getting rid of that.

00:36:23.000 Let me let me go circle back to that before I get to Trump, because that'll lead us down another path.

00:36:27.000 If that's true, how do we get rid of the rot, right?

00:36:33.000 You've got, like you said, probably a bunch of good people working at the FBI.

00:36:38.000 Hardworking Americans that love their country, that want to serve their country, that aren't the bad guys.

00:36:42.000 But you've apparently got a lot of people in positions of power that are wielding that power in a very corrupt way.

00:36:47.000 How do we solve that problem?

00:36:49.000 Because this is what your film highlights.

00:36:51.000 And we want to know solutions.

00:36:52.000 This isn't, and I don't think you're here to say, just go watch the movie and be outraged with me and maybe tell a few of your friends about it, but it's a solution.

00:37:00.000 So what's the solution?

00:37:01.000 Oh, yeah.

00:37:02.000 I mean, the solution to the FBI is really the same as the solution to any institution that has been corrupted in this way.

00:37:12.000 I mean, this would apply, for example, to a university faculty.

00:37:15.000 If you think about how would you take over a university by the left, It is that they take over the key faculty committees that hire people, and so they're able to self-perpetuate.

00:37:27.000 Then they're powerful enough that they get veto power over the president, so that even if the board of trustees goes, we got this business guy, we want to bring him in, they're like, no, he's not confirmed on the left.

00:37:38.000 you know, find somebody else. So you have to dismantle that power

00:37:42.000 structure. You don't have to... I don't think you have to burn the FBI

00:37:46.000 building. That's not going to do anything.

00:37:47.000 No. You have to identify the key areas. Also crime, Dinesh.

00:37:51.000 No, no, no. Of course, you know what I mean.

00:37:51.000 We can't do that.

00:37:54.000 It's take down the bill.

00:37:55.000 People are like, you know, we've got to take it down from the top to the bottom.

00:37:58.000 No, what I'm getting at is what we need to do is identify where these corrupt centers of power are, dismantle those, and then create a healthy structure of incentives where people really want to do the kind of fair law enforcement work the FBI was set up to do.

00:38:12.000 So in that sense, the institution can be reformed, but reform normally suggests just some kind of cosmetic change, like changing the director.

00:38:21.000 No, that will not do it.

00:38:22.000 You have to burrow down into the bureaucracy.

00:38:24.000 A point about Hamas that really struck me was, I think this phenomenon about sort of boasting about your brutality is something that goes even beyond the Nazis. 0.81

00:38:38.000 I mean, this seems ridiculous to say, right?

00:38:39.000 Because people will say, you can't compare it to the Nazis.

00:38:42.000 I think this is actually a comparison in favor of the Nazis, if I can put it that way.

00:38:46.000 Because think about it, when the Nazis established death camps, Not the concentration camps, because concentration camps were labor camps.

00:38:53.000 Right.

00:38:53.000 But death camps were gas chambers.

00:38:55.000 Yep.

00:38:56.000 Right?

00:38:56.000 How can you systematically eradicate a people in the most efficient way possible?

00:39:00.000 And you'll notice that not a single death camp is in Germany.

00:39:03.000 Right.

00:39:04.000 Every death camp is in Poland or the occupied territories.

00:39:06.000 Now, why is that?

00:39:07.000 Because the Nazis didn't want to show it to the Germans.

00:39:11.000 They were not, in that sense, proud of what they were doing.

00:39:14.000 And so that is a little different from sometimes This terrorist exhibitionism that we see these days, where a terrorist group revels in the amount of carnage that they've caused, almost as if that is a measure of their effectiveness.

00:39:31.000 And that is really what thrills the sort of terrorist lobby all over the world.

00:39:36.000 Who would have thought Hamas could get into Israel with a thousand guys coming, you know, imaginatively from the sky, and then just, you know, having their way with them.

00:39:36.000 Wow!

00:39:46.000 It struck me that, you know, that even though the Nazi analogy can be overdone, in this case, we might even be seeing things that are, in some sense, worse.

00:39:54.000 Yeah, well, and I think it's the crossing of all the things that we've been talking about are the intersection with that and, obviously, religion.

00:40:02.000 Right.

00:40:02.000 And so it kind of brings an entirely new level of commitment from people who are committed to a religion.

00:40:09.000 And so I think, interestingly, you know, I think you've got the right point on the FBI.

00:40:14.000 I think it needs to be defunded.

00:40:15.000 Like we've talked about like taking it down to the studs.

00:40:18.000 I think there needs to be something like that done with them to get an agency, because you need some kind of an agency to serve some of the functions, right?

00:40:27.000 Because you've got investigating terrorism, you've got drugs and human trafficking, you've got a lot of legitimate functions that the FBI can serve, but you don't need the FBI.

00:40:35.000 So my next question, I guess, will lead into Donald Trump.

00:40:41.000 Let's say that Trump gets elected.

00:40:43.000 President Trump, he's leading in all the polls right now in the primary.

00:40:46.000 Nobody's ever lost with the kind of lead he's had, right?

00:40:48.000 We'll talk about a few things maybe that are potentials for him.

00:40:51.000 If he gets back in and disbands the FBI, do you think the left is going to view that as a correction or as an authoritarian move?

00:40:57.000 Meaning, the kind of disbanding that we've talked about, like, okay, we have to really dig down in and get the rot out of the FBI.

00:41:04.000 Do you think they're going to see that as a correction or as, see, we told you, he's going to be authoritarian, he's never going to leave office again?

00:41:12.000 The left will absolutely see it that way.

00:41:14.000 They will see it as Trump is now wreaking vengeance on the people who tried to get him.

00:41:21.000 And to some degree, I think that perception is going to be unavoidable.

00:41:26.000 I'm actually not so worried about that right now.

00:41:29.000 I'm more worried about the Republican psychology, the right-of-center psychology, that doesn't recognize the sort of peril that we are in as a country with regard to our basic rights.

00:41:43.000 When it comes to the FBI, for example, I would say that one half of Republican members of Congress are going to be immediately frozen when you bring up the topic because they're like, wait a minute, we thought we were back the blue.

00:41:56.000 How can we be back the blue and at the same time against the FBI?

00:41:59.000 This is going to be too confusing a message for my constituents, Dinesh.

00:42:03.000 And I'm like, wait a minute.

00:42:04.000 Police states are inherently lawless.

00:42:07.000 What the FBI is doing is abusing its credibility and its prosecutorial discretion and the intelligence function it was set up to do.

00:42:18.000 It's abusing all of that so there's nothing inconsistent with being back the blue and supporting law and order and then opposing the abuse of law and order.

00:42:27.000 Exactly.

00:42:28.000 But Republicans in this sense are very reluctant to modify traditional positions that really go back to the Reagan era, but I think are obsolete today.

00:42:41.000 The difference is, I don't know if you've seen the man who shot Liberty Valance, but In the beginning you got Jimmy Stewart and he's a goofball guy, he's a law and order guy, and he's like, I'm not going to be like these criminals, you know, I rely on my books and I'll call the authorities if I need to.

00:42:55.000 Now if you're living in a peaceful town with a good sheriff and a good system, you can be that way.

00:43:00.000 Focus on your books.

00:43:01.000 But if you go out in a covered wagon out west, and you're surrounded by outlaws with guns, and they want to burn your homestead and rape your wife and kill your kids, and you're like, I'm not gonna go for my rifle because I'm better than they are, I'm a man of principle, you know? 0.98

00:43:16.000 You'll be a dead man of principle.

00:43:17.000 You would be and nobody would even know what to say to you Yeah, and and so that's kind of what my film is intended to say is listen We are not in normal politics in America.

00:43:28.000 We are seeing in a very short time Rights that we took for granted really since the founding being Seriously imperiled and the forces that are doing this.

00:43:39.000 I mean they're in academia.

00:43:41.000 They're in the media They're in the nonprofit sector.

00:43:44.000 They are the digital platforms.

00:43:46.000 They're in government I mean, you're dealing with a very formidable combination of forces, so this is not even something that is fixed by an election.

00:43:55.000 It's going to take an election, but a lot more.

00:43:58.000 It's going to definitely take a lot more.

00:43:59.000 And look, the only reason we get to do this kind of stuff and the only reason we exist is because of Mug Club, so do consider joining Mug Club for $89 a year.

00:44:07.000 It's how we do everything that we do.

00:44:09.000 You get all of the shows that you see here.

00:44:11.000 You also get our Friday show that we added.

00:44:12.000 We have Nick DiPaolo.

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00:44:24.000 But then we have our undercover unit, and we have a lot of the campaigns that we're kind of standing up To really fight back in a lot of ways, instead of just talking to you about this stuff, kind of like Dinesh, you know, like it's not just about talking about these issues and going, all right, I sold another book or I got another movie deal.

00:44:39.000 It's about actually getting something done.

00:44:42.000 And I think for us, we've, we developed Mug Club specifically because of the censorship, censorship that we've kind of fought through with big tech, specifically YouTube, right?

00:44:53.000 dealt with a lot of things and we deal with it all the time, but it goes back to the Vox

00:44:56.000 Apocalypse where Susan Wojcicki was talking about Steven and saying, he didn't break any

00:45:01.000 rules but we're going to make some new rules so that that way it's taken care of and we

00:45:04.000 can just kind of say he broke some rules.

00:45:06.000 And so now he's demonetized and his reach is limited and he's throttled and he's got

00:45:10.000 a strike on his account so he can't talk about the 2022 midterms because we had Carrie Lake

00:45:15.000 on the show.

00:45:16.000 I get a strike because I quoted the California CDC where four out of the last 10 years the

00:45:22.000 The flu was more deadly for children.

00:45:24.000 At the time, this was California information, the flu was more deadly four of the last ten seasons than COVID was at the time, right?

00:45:31.000 And we were just talking through those things, or even the laptop, the Hunter Biden laptop that was apparently Russian disinformation.

00:45:37.000 We fight that same fight, and I think you're right, people don't really know that.

00:45:41.000 But here's one case where I think a lot of people will come together.

00:45:45.000 And go, yeah, this doesn't quite seem right.

00:45:47.000 And that's President Trump.

00:45:49.000 This is playing out in front of our eyes.

00:45:52.000 And you can feel about him however you want to feel.

00:45:55.000 You can think that he's brash.

00:45:57.000 You can think that he's a mean tweeter, or exer, or poster.

00:45:59.000 I'm not even sure what they call it anymore with the name change here.

00:46:02.000 You can think that he's not the most moral man that you've ever met.

00:46:06.000 He's made some very bad comments about people he picked.

00:46:09.000 Whatever you want to think about him.

00:46:11.000 He was very effective.

00:46:12.000 Liberals, we showed you that clip a while back of the liberal billionaire, part owner I think of the Golden State Nuggets that came out and said, we shot the message because we didn't like the messenger.

00:46:26.000 That he was talking about building a wall and we didn't like that he was talking about building a wall, so we didn't.

00:46:31.000 And now we're dealing with all of the consequences.

00:46:33.000 So you're starting to see people change a little bit.

00:46:36.000 Even on the left, do you think what's happening with President Trump right now?

00:46:40.000 First off, talk maybe just a little bit about what you think is going on here.

00:46:44.000 And do you think that's enough of a wake-up call for people across the entire spectrum of Americans to maybe go, wait a minute, the deep state really is a thing.

00:46:52.000 The police state really is a thing.

00:46:55.000 Well, I think that there are some people on the left who are... They're so...

00:47:02.000 Discombobulated by the very name Trump.

00:47:05.000 And this is because of the relentless engine of propaganda and indoctrination that they're not able to look at this issue objectively at all.

00:47:14.000 In fact, the only way they would see it objectively is if you change the name of the country, and you change the name of the man, and you said, you know, in Poland there's this man, let's just call him Donald Trumpski, you know?

00:47:28.000 The opposition party has arrested him, and he's the leading candidate of the other party, and they haven't just put a single criminal charge on him for something obvious like, oh, you know what, he was found with suitcases of money that came from, you know, that would actually be Biden.

00:47:42.000 Yeah, I was about to say, you're describing someone else now.

00:47:44.000 Right, exactly.

00:47:46.000 But he's hit with 90 plus charges.

00:47:49.000 I think people would get it right away.

00:47:50.000 The US government would be calling that country a banana republic, and Human Rights Watch would be all over it.

00:47:58.000 Look, with Trump, if they had mounted a single charge and they had said, all right, Trump, you took these classified documents.

00:48:06.000 Now, we asked you for them back, but you're a stubborn guy and you're like, I'm not giving them back.

00:48:10.000 And so, you know, we're going to put a single criminal charge on you to sort of convey the seriousness of this matter.

00:48:18.000 We would be like, let's look at the facts.

00:48:20.000 Let's look at the merits of it.

00:48:21.000 But when you have this blizzard of charges, this shotgun approach, where it's like, listen, you know, if we can't get you in D.C., we'll get you in Florida.

00:48:30.000 Can't get you in Florida?

00:48:31.000 How about Georgia?

00:48:32.000 If it's not a federal case, our Soros-funded state DAs will move in.

00:48:37.000 If we can't get you in Georgia, you know, in New York, and if we can't get you on the criminal case, we'll wreck your business with a civil case.

00:48:44.000 I mean, this is police state thuggery as naked as it comes.

00:48:49.000 And I think it is because they do fear that Trump is the most dangerous opponent of the police state.

00:48:56.000 I think it's because he is the least bound by political convention.

00:49:00.000 You know, any other Republican will quickly fall into line if you say, you're not allowed to talk about firing civil servants.

00:49:08.000 You know, you're not allowed to say that the Justice Department is an extension of the executive branch.

00:49:14.000 You're not allowed to call up Kim Jong-un on the phone.

00:49:17.000 If you go to a meeting you're supposed to- He's President!

00:49:20.000 Come on! 0.61

00:49:21.000 Well, this is what makes Trump unique.

00:49:23.000 Any other president that met with, let's just say, Kim Jong Un would come out and say, we had a very meaningful dialogue.

00:49:30.000 We made significant progress on human rights.

00:49:33.000 When Trump comes out, he goes, you know, I asked him, you know, what does he think of his nickname Rocketman, you know?

00:49:39.000 And then I told him, he's like, what's Rocketman?

00:49:42.000 I gave him a CD, you know?

00:49:43.000 And he was really short, but he laughed a lot.

00:49:46.000 I mean, Trump actually tells you what it's actually like to be in the room.

00:49:51.000 And this is why I think there are people in this country who aren't actually all that political in their bones, but they identify with Trump because he has this kind of normal way of speaking.

00:50:03.000 Surprisingly.

00:50:04.000 For a billionaire, kind of popular, very well-known worldwide guy, he kind of almost was going to say he has a little bit of an everyman kind of personality in some ways.

00:50:14.000 Or at least he says things that he's, we're thinking.

00:50:17.000 He says what we want Trump's dad used to say to him, you know, we're not Manhattan, we're Queens.

00:50:21.000 locked you up. That kind of thing really resonated with a lot of people. It was like, that's

00:50:25.000 right! Don't be nice, go after these people. 1.00

00:50:28.000 Well, Trump's dad used to say to him, you know, we're not Manhattan, we're Queens. And

00:50:34.000 this is really important because Trump, although he grew up rich, he grew up rich sort of in

00:50:40.000 the outer boroughs of New York.

00:50:42.000 His dad had, you know, rent control, apartments, that he was, you know, they made money that way and Manhattan to them was a different place.

00:50:51.000 Trump still has some of that.

00:50:53.000 And I think that's what people identify with.

00:50:55.000 Yeah.

00:50:55.000 So let me, we'll go right back to Trump in just a second, but of the other candidates right now, if let's just imagine a world where Donald Trump is not running for president in 2024, who else of the candidates that we have now would be capable or at least willing to go after the police state in your mind?

00:51:14.000 In my mind, there would be, of the rest of them, only two.

00:51:18.000 I think I can guess, but tell me.

00:51:21.000 I would say DeSantis and Vivek.

00:51:26.000 Sorry, Vivek like cake.

00:51:27.000 He was in here, we did an interview with him recently and that was how he did it.

00:51:30.000 Yes, those are the two that I would think as well.

00:51:33.000 So with Ron DeSantis, obviously because of his kind of track record as governor of Florida, we've been very, you know, we've had a lot of praise for Ron DeSantis until his campaign started and then he got a little bit It seems like he fell into the mold of past Republican candidates that kind of distanced themselves from Trump just a little bit and were like, ah, don't run away from what made you great as governor.

00:51:52.000 Just be that guy.

00:51:53.000 He also did not defend Trump where it was completely appropriate to defend Trump.

00:51:58.000 I think that was a serious judgment error.

00:52:00.000 I also think that, you know, if I were Trump and I sailed through to the nomination, The first thing I would do, even though I don't think this is what Trump will do, is I would call Ron DeSantis.

00:52:14.000 And I would tell him, Ron, I can bring the big personality and the charisma, and I'm maybe the guy that the Republican base and the country can identify with because I speak a normal language, but you do have a ruthless operational efficiency that you brought to Florida.

00:52:35.000 that we need in the federal government. In other words, I'm going to ask you to go into the FBI,

00:52:41.000 burrow into the bureaucracy, and root out the corruption.

00:52:45.000 And then I want you to do that to seven other institutions. So DeSantis would have a

00:52:50.000 tremendous amount of scope and power.

00:52:52.000 But, so in other words, I guess what I'm saying is politically, I think that there's a complementary

00:52:58.000 set of strengths that DeSantis and Trump bring to the table.

00:53:02.000 And Vivek has a lot of strengths as well.

00:53:04.000 And Vivek has done some of the things right that DeSantis hasn't, which is why Vivek has gotten more traction than one would have expected.

00:53:11.000 Yeah, and he's seen kind of as an outsider.

00:53:13.000 He's a CEO.

00:53:14.000 He's a businessman.

00:53:15.000 He's succeeded.

00:53:16.000 He really follows that Trump model quite a bit, except he seems very polished.

00:53:20.000 And Trump was very brash.

00:53:22.000 Vivek seems a little bit more kind of polished in that regard.

00:53:26.000 But he is kind of like, if Donald Trump is not running and you're looking for that, he seems to embody that more than any other candidate.

00:53:32.000 I guess the next question is, we were only able to name two.

00:53:37.000 Why, I mean, is it just that, you know, and I like Tim Scott.

00:53:42.000 I know Nikki Haley has been a part of a lot of this stuff.

00:53:44.000 Are these people too close to the forest for the trees?

00:53:48.000 Are they basically not seeing the problem, not capable of fighting against the problem because they're, I guess, beholden?

00:53:55.000 I don't know.

00:53:55.000 Well, my reading of it is that they are still living in the Reagan era.

00:54:01.000 Yeah.

00:54:02.000 And I say this as someone who, I mean, I My political formation is in the Reagan era.

00:54:07.000 I went to college at Dartmouth when Reagan was first running for president, and so it was that appreciation of Reagan as kind of an embodiment of American idealism, someone who understood the issues, but Reagan was a president when the main problem was abroad.

00:54:30.000 It was the Cold War.

00:54:30.000 The threat was communism in Russia, U.S.

00:54:32.000 history.

00:54:34.000 Now we are in a kind of a domestic Cold War with a very no less sort of fanatical adversary to be honest and we need people who recognize that the world has changed.

00:54:47.000 I mean it goes back really to even the Republican Party in the 1850s was completely incapable of recognizing the perilous situation facing the country.

00:54:58.000 Part of the genius of Lincoln was that even though he came out of the moderate wing of the party You would almost say he was a kind of rhino in his own day.

00:55:07.000 When he came to Washington, he recognized immediately that the Democratic Party had become gangsterized, and that the old tactics of Henry Clay-style compromises and constantly appeasing these guys was not going to work.

00:55:24.000 And so Lincoln's view is... You could be describing the last 20 years right now.

00:55:27.000 That's right.

00:55:27.000 Easily.

00:55:28.000 Maybe even a little bit more than that.

00:55:29.000 But those, the whole, okay, we'll just pacify.

00:55:31.000 It's always the Republicans' fault.

00:55:33.000 It's always the Democrats' way or the highway on these bills.

00:55:36.000 And we get pushed around even when we have majorities.

00:55:39.000 Right.

00:55:39.000 Exactly.

00:55:40.000 I don't know how.

00:55:41.000 No, I mean, you take Mike Pence, and it's one thing, you know, I even agree with Mike Pence when he says, all right, I'm the vice president, my task on that day was sort of custodial and ceremonial, I don't think I had the constitutional authority to just push the election back to the states.

00:55:57.000 Maybe he's right about that.

00:55:59.000 But someone like that has got to address the larger issue, which is to say, was there systematic fraud in this election that needs some sort of attention?

00:56:12.000 Maybe you're not the guy to do it, maybe that was not the time or the place, but to just say that one thing and then zip hunt.

00:56:20.000 Exactly.

00:56:22.000 And I think that's the sputtering frustration of the Republican base.

00:56:25.000 And this is really why people went to D.C.

00:56:27.000 on January 6th.

00:56:28.000 It's like, who is going to look at this?

00:56:31.000 Who is going to look at this substantively?

00:56:34.000 Not some local court that goes, hey, listen, you may or may not be right, but you should have brought this challenge before the election.

00:56:40.000 And then if you brought the challenge before the election, hey, you may or may not be right, but listen, the election hasn't even happened, so why are you suing over imaginary crimes that haven't yet occurred?

00:56:50.000 So this kind of evasiveness, I think, drove just the primal scream that became January 6th.

00:56:59.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:57:00.000 And it's frustrating because those are the kinds of things that lead to actual, when people talk like, are we at the level of civil war?

00:57:08.000 The answer we've given people is no, but you're at the point where you have to fight for your country in different ways.

00:57:12.000 You have to elect good leaders.

00:57:14.000 You have to be aware of what's going on.

00:57:16.000 You have to push back on states or state police kind of thing.

00:57:20.000 No, sorry, not individual states.

00:57:21.000 Gosh, sometimes your brain just kind of mixes words together.

00:57:25.000 The police state, not the state police.

00:57:27.000 Stateys, they're fine.

00:57:28.000 What I'm talking about.

00:57:30.000 Is you have to be aware of what's going on and engaged in that fight and that's I think what Donald Trump was saying as president saying look you're going to have to fight like hell to keep he wasn't saying take to the streets with weapons.

00:57:41.000 He was saying get engaged in this process and you know you just listed out a lot of the challenges that were kind of the governmental issues like I have a problem with how the state is handling this election.

00:57:53.000 You mentioned the Hunter Biden laptop as well and that alone, now that's the crossing of business and state where you get the state telling businesses this is Russian disinformation.

00:58:04.000 There's obviously studies, I'm sure you've seen them too, that that would have changed the outcome of the election.

00:58:09.000 Just that one thing alone, based on the polling that they've done, would have changed the outcome of the election period.

00:58:15.000 None of the other cases needed to be brought.

00:58:17.000 Now they're serious, and we need to get to the bottom of those things.

00:58:20.000 But that is the scariest, I think, part for me, is that, like you said in your film, it's the state now kind of getting these private companies to do their bidding.

00:58:31.000 Facebook, well, Meta now.

00:58:33.000 X, thankfully, has been purchased by Elon Musk, and so it feels like a bit of a safe haven for free speech, even though it's not perfect, and I don't like that he put Linda Iaccarino in power there from NBC Universal days.

00:58:45.000 But other places, like Google, still seem like the Wild West.

00:58:50.000 They can kind of do whatever they want and manipulate elections. 0.73

00:58:52.000 So I think in one of your interviews here with Zach, is it Voorhees?

00:58:57.000 He's the Google whistleblower.

00:58:58.000 He describes Google as a quasi-state actor.

00:59:01.000 How do we break up that relationship, right?

00:59:04.000 So we've covered the government.

00:59:05.000 We've covered the three-letter agencies.

00:59:07.000 Now we're getting into the business side of this.

00:59:09.000 How do we deal with that section of it?

00:59:12.000 And what did you find out, I guess, in doing so?

00:59:17.000 If we had legislative power, which we don't have, because to do that you need both branches of both the House and the Senate, and you also need to have the presidency, you could very easily break up Google under the antitrust laws.

00:59:28.000 I mean, Google is an obvious monopoly.

00:59:31.000 You can argue whether Facebook's a monopoly, YouTube is not a monopoly, but Google is a monopoly.

00:59:38.000 And, however, you can strike that down in one shot right now with the Supreme Court ruling.

00:59:44.000 And there is, by the way, the case of Missouri v. Biden making its way up the courts.

00:59:49.000 And the Attorneys General of Missouri and Louisiana, along with others, have exposed this censorship.

00:59:56.000 And it's worth zooming in on it for a little bit.

00:59:59.000 Because the censorship involves so many different institutions.

01:00:03.000 This is typically how it works.

01:00:04.000 You have some academic, and a lot of these academics have nothing better to do, so what they do is they monitor social media, people like you and me, and Stephen Crowder.

01:00:12.000 And they go, okay, we're going to list the 50 greatest spreaders of disinformation in the country.

01:00:19.000 OK, so let's just say, OK, Crowder is on the list.

01:00:21.000 I'm on the list.

01:00:22.000 And now what happens is the academic provides this list, which is then picked up by the Biden administration and sorted.

01:00:29.000 So they'll say, well, Crowder is spreading disinformation about about Covid.

01:00:34.000 So that goes to the CDC.

01:00:36.000 Dinesh is spreading misinformation about the 2020 election.

01:00:39.000 So that goes to the group called CISA, the Cyber Security Infrastructure Agency.

01:00:43.000 So you've got like 40 agencies of the government collecting this stuff and all making lists.

01:00:48.000 But they don't want to go to the digital platforms directly.

01:00:51.000 Why?

01:00:52.000 Because it's too obviously censorship.

01:00:54.000 It's like flatly forbidden in the First Amendment.

01:00:57.000 So they hire a middleman.

01:00:58.000 They go to the Stanford Internet Observatory or another group called the Virality Project.

01:01:03.000 And there are other groups like this.

01:01:04.000 And they go, hey, guys, listen, we'll give you the list.

01:01:06.000 you walk over to Google, you walk over to Meta, you deliver the list.

01:01:11.000 So when they censor people, our grubby hands are not, our fingerprints are not on the list.

01:01:16.000 And so the non-profit becomes ultimately the courier.

01:01:20.000 And then the digital platform carries it out to the applause of the media.

01:01:25.000 So, look at all the different institutions involved.

01:01:27.000 Academia is involved.

01:01:30.000 The media is involved.

01:01:31.000 The digital platforms are involved.

01:01:33.000 Multiple agencies of government.

01:01:34.000 But, the good thing is that in the Missouri vs. Biden case, they are onto this.

01:01:39.000 And they've got all this discovery showing exactly how this works.

01:01:43.000 And it's making its way upward.

01:01:44.000 Well, the Supreme Court just needs to come in and say, listen, not only is government censorship forbidden, but censorship by surrogate is equally forbidden.

01:01:53.000 Of course.

01:01:54.000 And it's so clear cut.

01:01:54.000 Right.

01:01:56.000 And see, this is how you fight a police state.

01:01:58.000 You don't just fight a police state by saying, you know, what can the ordinary citizen do?

01:02:02.000 The ordinary citizen can do some things like become a poll watcher, become an election observer.

01:02:07.000 There are 10 things you can do.

01:02:08.000 But we also need institutions to act The courts, the Republican House, you know, certainly Republican governors, attorneys general, secretaries of state.

01:02:19.000 States can do a lot.

01:02:20.000 States can do a lot.

01:02:21.000 Right.

01:02:21.000 And so what we saw in a lot of the last, you know, last few elections was maybe a move in that direction where we're getting more governorships and we're getting more control of state legislatures and saying, OK, hey, these changes can be made at the state level.

01:02:33.000 And that's a very important thing.

01:02:34.000 So maybe that's OK.

01:02:36.000 So one of the things that you can do is to make sure that you are informed in state elections.

01:02:41.000 Make sure that you're not just a every two year person where you're going to vote in the general and then you're going to vote to maybe do the midterms and see, you know, OK, I'm going to get ramped up about this every two years.

01:02:51.000 That's the only amount of time that I can spend.

01:02:53.000 And look, I know I'm asking a lot of you to go out and spend extra time that you don't necessarily have.

01:02:58.000 I'm in the same boat other than I do this for a living.

01:03:00.000 And so maybe it's a little easier for me to stay in tune with what's going on.

01:03:04.000 But it's important.

01:03:05.000 It's very important.

01:03:06.000 And it's not One of my final questions for you in just a few minutes here is going to be related to this.

01:03:13.000 It's not just about doing a show.

01:03:16.000 It's not just about doing an interview.

01:03:17.000 Dinesh, it's been fantastic.

01:03:18.000 I'm learning a whole lot of stuff here, but it's about making an impact.

01:03:21.000 When we did the interview with Dr. Robert Epstein about Google, are you familiar?

01:03:26.000 I am.

01:03:26.000 I just had him on my podcast.

01:03:27.000 So you know some of the things that just make you go, are you kidding me?

01:03:31.000 Google can flip a 50-50 into a 90-10 just by search manipulation.

01:03:37.000 Like that's insane.

01:03:39.000 It's about figuring out a way to take the information that you have and then go, okay, how do I fix this?

01:03:45.000 How do I become part of the solution to this?

01:03:47.000 How do I work proactively?

01:03:50.000 And for parents with kids in school, get involved in school boards and PTAs.

01:03:54.000 Make sure that you're electing good people that are going to have control over what's going on in those institutions.

01:03:58.000 Fantastic.

01:03:59.000 State governments can help kind of buttress the election system.

01:03:59.000 There we go.

01:04:02.000 If you don't like how the elections were handled, guess what?

01:04:05.000 State lawmakers a lot of times were behind some of that stuff saying, okay, well, we'll go ahead and allow these mail-in ballots and we'll allow ballot harvesting and we'll allow all this stuff.

01:04:12.000 So help make a change there.

01:04:13.000 It's not always just the people that we send off to Congress.

01:04:16.000 So that's something that you can do.

01:04:17.000 And by the way, really quickly, Just comment below.

01:04:19.000 Do you know anybody who uses anything other than Google to search?

01:04:23.000 I don't know what their market share is off the top of my head, but I think it's somewhere in the 90s, percentage-wise.

01:04:28.000 I mean, there are a couple of search engines, but they're not even... I mean, that's why we use Google as a verb.

01:04:33.000 Google it!

01:04:34.000 I know!

01:04:35.000 It has become a thing, right?

01:04:36.000 And I think DuckDuckGo is one of the competitors to that, but most people that you know... So, if really what we're talking about is You've got this police state who is, you know, and we're waiting on cases to be decided, but I think that's what led me into what I just said is that I get so frustrated because it's like, aha!

01:04:56.000 We've got it!

01:04:57.000 But then nothing happens.

01:04:58.000 And we've had so many of those moments as conservatives where we're like, ugh.

01:05:04.000 Okay well I thought we had it.

01:05:06.000 Nothing happened.

01:05:07.000 Nothing's changed.

01:05:08.000 Nothing's fixed.

01:05:09.000 What are we doing?

01:05:10.000 How is it going to get fixed?

01:05:12.000 I want people to have some small wins along the way to keep them going for the bigger wins that we're waiting for in Supreme Court cases and things like that.

01:05:20.000 One of the things just jumped in my mind and it's a little out of sequence because it goes back to the very first question you asked me about the film reaching out to people on the other side.

01:05:29.000 I think one of the things the film does well is it tells you the genealogy, the origin of the police state.

01:05:35.000 And this is a little bit of an embarrassment because the origin of the police state is not only bipartisan but somewhat Republican.

01:05:41.000 It is.

01:05:42.000 It's the Patriot Act.

01:05:44.000 Well, what happened is after 9-11, right, there was a wave of fear that goes through the country.

01:05:50.000 And fear is always politically problematic because it makes you do things you wouldn't otherwise do.

01:05:56.000 Correct.

01:05:56.000 And a lot of people, me included, I'm sorry to say, were like, okay, we don't just chase down these crimes after they occur, we got to stop the next one.

01:06:06.000 Everybody wanted that.

01:06:06.000 Everyone wanted that.

01:06:07.000 Nobody wanted to be the victim of the next crime and everybody thought it was coming right around the corner.

01:06:12.000 So let's give all this enhanced surveillance power and let's break down some of the barriers between intelligence on the one hand and criminal investigation on the other.

01:06:21.000 Let's empower these police agencies off the U.S.

01:06:25.000 government, but obviously with the intention of going after the foreign terrorist.

01:06:29.000 In fact, going after people like these Hamas guys. 0.95

01:06:31.000 Right.

01:06:32.000 So why do you think U.S.

01:06:32.000 intelligence missed this completely, right?

01:06:35.000 And I think the answer is... Focused on white guys in suburban America!

01:06:38.000 There you go!

01:06:39.000 What?!

01:06:39.000 Yeah, so what happened was that even though the police state traces its roots to the Bush era, I think that the politicization, the turning of the camera inward, the aiming it at domestic political opponents, it began under Obama and was ramped up dramatically under Biden.

01:06:58.000 Yeah.

01:06:59.000 Well, I mean, it's still the J. Edgar Hoover building.

01:07:01.000 You've still got the building named after a guy who was known for these kinds of tactics that we're talking about in a police state, like trying to convince Martin Luther King to kill himself.

01:07:10.000 Like, it's just these really, really bad things.

01:07:13.000 So that makes me think, like, man, was it always this way and it just had enough guardrails at the time to kind of keep it from going completely crazy?

01:07:20.000 Or was it always crazy and we just never really knew about it because we didn't have access to social media and all the citizen journalism that we have today and all the people pushing back?

01:07:28.000 Yeah, I think it has changed.

01:07:30.000 And the reason I say this is, there's a big difference between a power-hungry megalomaniac like Hoover, who wanted to have kind of a personal, I've got something on everybody.

01:07:42.000 But see, J. Edgar Hoover would never dream of interfering in the Nixon-Kennedy election of 1960.

01:07:48.000 He wasn't trying to put his finger on the scale.

01:07:50.000 He wasn't trying to tyrannically run the country from his back office in the FBI building.

01:07:58.000 Frankly, he wanted to secure his own position in power, which is corrupt, but it's not the same as the ideological corruption that we're seeing now.

01:08:06.000 Somebody made the same point about anti-Semitism.

01:08:09.000 It was a former ambassador, David Friedman.

01:08:11.000 He goes, listen, you can find anti-Semitism a lot of places.

01:08:14.000 But he goes, if you want to find a full-scale ideology that justifies antisemitism, that commands support even in mainstream institutions, he goes, that's coming from the left.

01:08:25.000 Yeah.

01:08:26.000 Well, so I think we've covered most of the bases.

01:08:30.000 I would highly recommend that you go and watch the film.

01:08:33.000 Again, it's going to be in theaters on, gotta hear my notes, on October 23rd and 25th.

01:08:38.000 Go to PoliceStateFilm.net.

01:08:40.000 But before we go, kind of my final question, and Dinesh, this is more about On the right, sometimes we get people who dance on the line.

01:08:49.000 And this is not an accusation I'm hurling against you, so be clear, that's not where I'm going.

01:08:53.000 Of being kind of a quote unquote grifter, right?

01:08:57.000 Somebody who is basically just like, how can I make money off of this movement?

01:09:02.000 And you've written a lot of books.

01:09:04.000 You and I were talking about what you're doing right now with these documentaries, and I love Really Well Done.

01:09:09.000 It's not quite a documentary.

01:09:11.000 It's more than that.

01:09:11.000 I don't know if there's actually a name.

01:09:12.000 It's a movie that kind of functions as a documentary as well.

01:09:15.000 There's so much more that you've put into it than just going and asking somebody questions and throwing some B-roll footage behind you, right?

01:09:22.000 I love it when they're well done because they educate the audience, but how do you address people who say, okay, we're just going to buy another ticket to a movie, right?

01:09:22.000 I love those things.

01:09:32.000 Is Dinesh really interested in this?

01:09:33.000 Where's your heart behind this?

01:09:36.000 Really tell us, what do you want to have happen?

01:09:39.000 Why are you so focused on doing this?

01:09:41.000 Not just with this movie, but with everything that you're doing.

01:09:45.000 I think that, well, just a word about the documentaries.

01:09:49.000 Some people call my films a docudrama, because I try to put in a non-fiction film all the ingredients that make a feature film great.

01:09:59.000 So there's suspense, there's a plot.

01:10:02.000 Storyline there is a movement toward a climax and you have a you want to leave the audience With a sense of enlightenment, but also galvanized to action.

01:10:13.000 So those are some of the elements in putting a film together Now what motivates me?

01:10:19.000 Documentary is a very hard genre and they're they're very very hard on the right.

01:10:23.000 They're not so hard on the left here's what I mean if Michael Moore wants to make a film and What does he do?

01:10:29.000 He goes to a studio, and he says, give me ten million dollars.

01:10:33.000 And they go, here.

01:10:34.000 He makes the film, and then, the moment he's finished, his job is done.

01:10:39.000 The studio says, alright, you're gonna be on The View tomorrow, you're gonna be on Stephen Colbert, Bill Maher has you on, we got this, we got that, you know.

01:10:46.000 So, what I'm getting at is, the only thing Michael Moore does, is the film.

01:10:51.000 Everything else is done for him.

01:10:51.000 Nothing else.

01:10:52.000 The whole infrastructure's there.

01:10:54.000 On the right, Lots of people are making documentaries and they find it's really hard.

01:10:59.000 Why?

01:11:00.000 Because you need some legal expertise.

01:11:01.000 And you need to raise money.

01:11:03.000 Really hard to do.

01:11:04.000 And even if you're able to raise money, you then have to figure out how do I make a good film.

01:11:08.000 Really hard to do also because a lot of people on our side think films are just about messaging.

01:11:13.000 And they're like, Dinesh, do some messaging.

01:11:15.000 Make a film on the border, on Obamacare.

01:11:18.000 And I'm like, how do I get people to get out of their home and get in a car and go to a theater to watch a film that's all messaging?

01:11:26.000 But once you make a good film, you then have to market it.

01:11:28.000 So what happens is, and you have to be really good at all those things.

01:11:32.000 Now, the business model I developed going back to my first film, was I go to some investors, conservative investors who by

01:11:41.000 and large are not used to funding films, they're used to funding elections, and I said, guys, if you

01:11:46.000 give me some money, I will work really hard in the market to get it back to you so you can

01:11:51.000 turn around and give it back to me to make my next film.

01:11:54.000 In other words, I said, I'm going to call this recycled philanthropy.

01:11:58.000 I'd like to make some money for you, but that's not important to you or to me.

01:12:02.000 Our goal is the cause, but I'm trying to create a self... you know, I don't like being the guy who's hitting up people for donations all the time, so I want to create a mechanism in which I can produce a product in the market, then work really hard to return the investment to my investors in the full understanding that our job is to now Do it again.

01:12:25.000 So that's really what's driving me and my complete focus is on on saving the country because, I mean, you've got to remember I came here at the age of 17.

01:12:34.000 My whole life has been shaped by America.

01:12:36.000 I've, you know, written books like What's So Great About America.

01:12:39.000 If you ask me today, is America a free country?

01:12:42.000 I would, I would want, I believe no, but I wouldn't want to say that.

01:12:46.000 I would be embarrassed to say it.

01:12:47.000 So we are in this very Awkward position, and those of us who are rah-rah American immigrants have some obligation, I think, to give back to the country that has given us so much, and that's what motivates me.

01:13:02.000 Yeah, no, that's good, and I can see that.

01:13:04.000 A lot of people that we talked to that didn't grow up here for some period of time and then came to America are just like, oh my gosh, Like, this is worth fighting for.

01:13:15.000 This is worth keeping.

01:13:16.000 It's going the way, and I know you interviewed, I always forget her name, but she grew up in North Korea.

01:13:21.000 Yeonmi Park.

01:13:22.000 Yes, right, and so she spots it very clearly.

01:13:24.000 The refugees from Cuba, they spot it very clearly, saying, hey, this country is going the way of some of these other regimes, and you guys need to be a little bit more aware of what's going on.

01:13:35.000 I mean if I can say one thing about Yeon-mi is every time I see her this is the thought that goes through my head that there's for a country in a situation like we are now there is a window of time. 0.75

01:13:49.000 Yeon-mi actually has a book called While Time Remains which is to me a haunting title.

01:13:53.000 Because what she's saying is the time is not unlimited because if the jaws of the police state snap shut Then, the only thing we can do is run, right?

01:13:53.000 It is yeah.

01:14:03.000 I mean, get out, get your family out, get your money out.

01:14:06.000 Your options become much more limited.

01:14:08.000 So, if you ask me in one sentence why I made this movie, it's so we never get to that point.

01:14:14.000 Because we have the time to block, to thwart, even to roll back the police state.

01:14:20.000 It's not going to be easy, but we can do it.

01:14:23.000 And we have the obligation to do what we can while time remains.

01:14:27.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:14:28.000 Well, look, I think it's very important.

01:14:30.000 Go see Police State Film October 23rd and 25th in theaters.

01:14:34.000 PoliceStateFilm.net to get your tickets.

01:14:37.000 That's the only place to do it.

01:14:38.000 If you can't get out into the theater, make sure you go to the virtual premiere on October 27th.

01:14:42.000 It's going to be from Las Vegas with some Q&A from you and our friend Dan Bongino.

01:14:47.000 Dinesh, thank you very much for all the work that you're doing on this.

01:14:50.000 I really appreciate it and for answering some of the questions.

01:14:51.000 I want to make sure if anybody out there is asking the question, why is Dinesh doing this?

01:14:55.000 Is it just another, is it a messaging film or something like that?

01:14:59.000 There really is a goal.

01:15:01.000 uh... right now that we're trying to save the country that's that's what we talk

01:15:04.000 about we're trying to save what we believe is the greatest country on earth

01:15:07.000 that is fallen on hard times that is definitely culturally not in the right place and uh...

01:15:11.000 administratively right now is also not in the right place so whoever

01:15:15.000 whoever that person is for you uh... that you are looking at to come in and save the day

01:15:21.000 it's bigger than one person It's not just President Trump.

01:15:23.000 Like we have to win a lot of elections and we have to do a lot of hard work.

01:15:26.000 And unfortunately that's what it takes to keep this country that we all love

01:15:30.000 and to remake it in the image that our founders saw it being made into.

01:15:36.000 And so we've, we've got a lot of work to do, but that's okay.

01:15:36.000 Right.

01:15:38.000 We have time right now.

01:15:40.000 And as a Christian, you know, the Bible has some of that similar

01:15:42.000 language, like go out while the time is available, like while it's

01:15:46.000 still day and work can be done.

01:15:48.000 Well, we're in that same place as America while it is still light.

01:15:51.000 and this work is possible to be done, we have to go out.

01:15:55.000 We have to do that work.

01:15:56.000 Make sure you guys tune in back again with us tomorrow.

01:15:59.000 We'll be here 10 a.m.

01:16:00.000 Eastern, but make sure you go and support this work.

01:16:02.000 Go and support Dinesh in the theaters, and hopefully, Dinesh, you won't have to make many more of these.

01:16:08.000 Hopefully, there'll be a lot of work that is done, and the problem will get solved, and we won't have to keep doing this, but as many as are necessary, we would always love to have you back.

01:16:17.000 We'd love to talk about this and some of the success that hopefully you will have from this, but thank you for being with us today.

Louder with Crowder - October 23, 2023

"We're Moving Towards a Police State" Dinesh D'Souza Reveals How The FBI & CIA Target The Right!

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