Louder with Crowder - Women Should NOT be in Combat Roles | Change My Mind

00:00:00.000 Before they decreased the standard, there were women who did pass. 0.96

00:00:03.000 But your question is hitting all women. 1.00

00:00:05.000 Statistically, almost none.

00:00:08.000 Almost none.

00:00:08.000 That's not none.

00:00:09.000 Okay, great.

00:00:10.000 Then why did we lower the standards?

00:00:12.000 Oh yeah, I disagree with that.

00:00:28.000 That's absolutely horrible.

00:00:30.000 That's horrible.

00:00:32.000 You're the king of the women's school. 1.00

00:00:34.000 That's cool.

00:00:36.000 Welcome to the latest edition of Change My Mind, where we all hopefully rationalize our positions on

00:00:42.000 seemingly controversial topics.

00:00:44.000 The latest topic is the idea that women should not be in roles of combat.

00:00:50.000 And this topic actually took me to the Texas Women's University.

00:00:54.000 Now hold on, I know what you're thinking.

00:00:56.000 Going to a women's university to discuss a subject featuring women specifically is asking for trouble. 0.97

00:01:02.000 And I thought so too.

00:01:03.000 After all, sharing your opinions on this topic Could get you into some serious trouble, right?

00:01:09.000 Well, you wouldn't be the only one to have those thoughts.

00:01:10.000 In fact, a substantial number of people thought the exact same thing.

00:01:14.000 Do you think most women on this campus would agree with your position?

00:01:17.000 Absolutely not.

00:01:19.000 At least rolled your eyes.

00:01:20.000 I just saw that.

00:01:21.000 Sounds like maybe you're tired of that a little bit.

00:01:24.000 A little bit, yeah.

00:01:25.000 I'm kidding.

00:01:30.000 Lose his scholarship for an opinion.

00:01:34.000 So, will the cancel mob be effective, or can people feel free to sit down and actually discuss their positions?

00:01:41.000 I'll let you be the judge of that.

00:01:42.000 Now, first up we have Olivia, a former high school wrestler and current Texas women's student. 0.99

00:01:48.000 Now, I bring you Olivia first because you'll see later on a young lady named Ploy, who is also a wrestler. 1.00

00:01:55.000 With very differing opinions based on her experiences.

00:01:58.000 So let's juxtapose that, first, with Olivia here on Change My Mind.

00:02:03.000 Do you mind scooching in just so we can kind of reach out and hold this here for you?

00:02:07.000 Olivia Steven, nice to meet you.

00:02:08.000 I'm willing to bet it's L-O-I-V-I-A. 1.00

00:02:11.000 O-L-I-V-I-A. 1.00

00:02:12.000 Did I not say O? 0.83

00:02:13.000 I don't think you did.

00:02:14.000 What did I say, I?

00:02:15.000 I think you said L. No, I said O-O, I didn't say L. O-L-I-V-I-A, right?

00:02:20.000 Yeah.

00:02:22.000 I don't know how familiar you are, if at all, with the Change My Mind kind of format, but it's basically a way for us to rationalize our positions on seemingly controversial topics.

00:02:30.000 To clarify my stance today, yeah, I don't believe that women, and I use the term women here because it is exclusively for women that we've lowered PT requirements and standards and barriers to entry in the military and the police force as far as enlisted services, as far as combat roles.

00:02:46.000 Infantry, for example, beat cops.

00:02:49.000 So that's why I use that example.

00:02:51.000 I don't believe that they should be in roles of physical combat where they would encounter violence for a multitude of reasons, largely because of safety issues both for them, but more importantly, their squad mates and the citizens they're sworn to protect.

00:03:05.000 If you disagree with me, I'm more than happy to hear why and change my mind.

00:03:10.000 Alright, so, um, I know you said, like, your main concern with it is, um, the women joining are lowering the PT requirements, so I don't necessarily... The military has lowered it so they can join.

00:03:22.000 Yeah, I don't necessarily think that, um, that should mean that women should not be in combat roles.

00:03:29.000 I mean, if your problem with that is that the PT requirements are being lowered, I think... I don't think the PT requirements should be lowered.

00:03:35.000 Okay.

00:03:38.000 And I know that would mean that, like, technically less women would be able to join. 1.00

00:03:41.000 Because, like, testosterone and stuff.

00:03:41.000 Yeah, it does.

00:03:43.000 But I don't feel like that should mean that, like, just women shouldn't be in combat roles in general, because there are those, like, exceptions of women who are just, like, oh, sorry.

00:03:51.000 It's fine.

00:03:51.000 Women who are just, like, naturally stronger or bigger or, like, stuff like that that would be able to keep up with the natural PT requirements.

00:03:58.000 Sure.

00:03:58.000 And just like there's men that can't keep up with P2 requirements, that's why there's

00:04:02.000 um, that's why like when you're looking at like officers or like military or police,

00:04:06.000 they're typically held at the standard because they're um, they're able to keep up with the

00:04:11.000 requirements.

00:04:12.000 Not women actually. 0.80

00:04:13.000 That's the problem.

00:04:14.000 They're held to a much lower standard.

00:04:16.000 But I would agree with you.

00:04:17.000 So it sounds like you're suggesting a physical meritocracy.

00:04:19.000 Which is, if you pass the tests, then you should be able to... And I understand that would mean that someone would join.

00:04:24.000 Yes.

00:04:25.000 Well, we went from 2% of women in the 70s to 16%. 0.98

00:04:29.000 And we've lowered the PT requirements consistently.

00:04:32.000 And even just recently in the Army, created a gender neutral test that less than 10% of men failed and 65% of women failed.

00:04:38.000 This is still a really low test.

00:04:41.000 I mean, that's expected.

00:04:43.000 Testosterone.

00:04:44.000 Right, but it sounds like you're saying they shouldn't be lowering those tests.

00:04:47.000 We should have the rigorous tests that we did.

00:04:49.000 We should.

00:04:49.000 And if women met those, they could be in those roles.

00:04:51.000 Yeah, and like I said, I understand that there'd be a lot of women that wouldn't be able to make it. 1.00

00:04:56.000 Sure.

00:04:57.000 And men.

00:04:58.000 And I agree, the men who don't meet those standards shouldn't be in either.

00:05:00.000 Men and women who wouldn't be able to make it.

00:05:01.000 Right.

00:05:03.000 I think I think that my problem with the statement is just it was very broad because like there's always exceptions and There's like there's a lot of woman that I could just think off of the top of my head that could make it well there I would bet you it's not a lot off the top of your head.

00:05:17.000 At least five.

00:05:19.000 At least five?

00:05:19.000 You think these women could do the same amount of pull-ups as men in the Marines?

00:05:24.000 Maybe close.

00:05:25.000 I'm not sure.

00:05:26.000 I wouldn't know them on a personal level.

00:05:28.000 Oh, on a personal level.

00:05:29.000 I was going to say very, very few.

00:05:30.000 No, no, no.

00:05:30.000 Oh, OK.

00:05:30.000 I was going to say very, very few.

00:05:32.000 For example, right now in the Marines, this stat kind of blew my mind.

00:05:35.000 A woman in the Marines can do half as many pull-ups as a man and get a perfect score. 1.00

00:05:40.000 And that's not the only standard I'm using.

00:05:41.000 I'm just using it because it's a very clear metric.

00:05:44.000 But when we're talking about this, the reason this is broad is because legislatively the only reason that our standards have been lowered, to the point of them being frankly kind of embarrassing for our military, is to accommodate women. 0.99

00:05:58.000 We haven't changed them.

00:05:58.000 You know, the beauty of a physical meritocracy is it's blind.

00:06:01.000 Whether it's race, gender, you pass the test or you don't.

00:06:05.000 But we have lowered the standards throughout all branches of military and in a lot of police forces to accommodate women.

00:06:12.000 They still fail at a much higher rate anyway and get put on the force.

00:06:16.000 As a result, they're hurt more, they get injured more.

00:06:19.000 If they're female cops, they get violently attacked. 1.00

00:06:21.000 more, so do their squad mates.

00:06:24.000 So if we're talking about, yes, there are individuals, exceptions, sure, but they could

00:06:27.000 have made the cut a long time ago.

00:06:29.000 Not enough of them could, so we lowered the standards.

00:06:32.000 And that's what I have an issue with, is legislatively, it is exclusively for women. 1.00

00:06:35.000 Well, so, I feel like...

00:06:38.000 Does that clarify, though?

00:06:39.000 Yeah, no, I agree with you there, because I don't, like you said, lowering the PT standards

00:06:45.000 could result in just injuries for themselves and their squad mates and just the people

00:06:49.000 they're trying to protect in general.

00:06:50.000 Right.

00:06:51.000 So my only my only issue with the statement is it just said women like and obviously I knew that's just like a broad statement.

00:06:58.000 It's hard to fit it all on the sign and say, because from 1971 to this, you know, we went from less push-ups to no push-ups.

00:07:05.000 We went from pull-ups to less pull-ups to no pull-ups, to not even doing a leg tuck.

00:07:09.000 Like, that's tough to fit on a sign, but that's the policy of the military is to be more inclusive, and to be more inclusive, you're less ready.

00:07:14.000 Yeah, no, I don't think inclusion should matter for things like, like I get, like, people want, like, inclusion here and there, representation, like, stuff like that.

00:07:23.000 But, like, when it comes to, like, serious things... You just rolled your eyes.

00:07:26.000 Inclusion... Sounds like maybe you're tired of that a little bit.

00:07:26.000 I just saw that.

00:07:30.000 A little bit, yeah.

00:07:31.000 But, um, I'm saying when it comes to, like, things like the military, the PT standards, I don't think they should be dropped because even though that'll mean technically less women will be able to join, I think the ones that would join would be the ones that actually belong and, like, would be able to keep up and, like, actually, like, do their job professionally.

00:07:50.000 That was a policy for a long time.

00:07:52.000 But because of progressive legislation, it's changed.

00:07:54.000 I don't agree that that should have changed.

00:07:57.000 I don't think you should lower the limits for other people to be able to join.

00:08:01.000 I don't think a man who wouldn't be able to do it shouldn't join.

00:08:04.000 I don't think a woman who can't do it shouldn't join.

00:08:07.000 And that man should preferably be laughed at.

00:08:09.000 Mocked mercilessly. 0.85

00:08:11.000 Not laughed at, but like, um... Mildly shamed.

00:08:14.000 Hey, let me ask you, because it sounds like we agree we found common ground, Olivia.

00:08:18.000 You have a USA wrestling shirt.

00:08:19.000 Yeah.

00:08:19.000 Do you wrestle?

00:08:20.000 Do you wrestle here for the school?

00:08:20.000 Oh, okay.

00:08:22.000 Um, no, not... I tore my leg pretty bad.

00:08:25.000 I might do it next year, I'm not sure.

00:08:26.000 Do they have a wrestling team here at this school?

00:08:28.000 Yeah, there's actually some wrestlers over there. 0.61

00:08:30.000 Oh wow, fantastic.

00:08:31.000 Well, that's a perfect example.

00:08:33.000 Take the best female wrestler, who you can picture. 1.00

00:08:37.000 Okay, the coach.

00:08:37.000 The coach.

00:08:38.000 How would she fare against a man of her size, average, in high school?

00:08:43.000 Like an average high school man?

00:08:44.000 I mean, an average man her age size.

00:08:46.000 And who would be in her bracket?

00:08:49.000 So, can I get a view on what this man's like?

00:08:55.000 Is he like a novice?

00:08:57.000 Because she was an Olympic bronze medalist, so she pretty much knows what she's doing.

00:09:05.000 You ever watch Kayla Harrison roll with hobbyist men?

00:09:08.000 She was a judo gold medalist twice.

00:09:10.000 Or who was it?

00:09:11.000 Sarah McMahon fought Ronda Rousey.

00:09:13.000 She was a silver medalist.

00:09:14.000 As someone who's done submission, it's not even close.

00:09:17.000 It's not even close.

00:09:18.000 It's not to take away that they're great for a woman, but the strength differential is so... No, no, no. 1.00

00:09:22.000 That's actually a topic that I'm like really, like... What's the word?

00:09:26.000 Passionate about it?

00:09:28.000 Let me hear it because you do have biological men going into women's wrestling. 1.00

00:09:31.000 I hate that and I know a lot of people want to be like it's inclusion matters but by taking like biological men and allowing them to compete in women's sports you're taking away from The biological woman because you're gonna have all these biological men dominating the categories and then you'll confront someone about that and you'll be like well if it's just a coincidence and if testosterone doesn't play a big role in this then how is it every they'll go from like the like 150th best in the men's category and then instantly to the first in the women's category.

00:10:01.000 Like there's a reason we have a men's division and a woman's division. 1.00

00:10:03.000 I agree.

00:10:04.000 And that's why we're here today, because I've done men should not compete in women's sports, biological men should not compete in women's sports, and boy was I met with screeching from the people you were discussing.

00:10:12.000 No, because that's a true statement.

00:10:13.000 But take that, and instead of wrestling, because most sports are sort of, right, they're analogous to war.

00:10:19.000 I mean, football, you look at sort of gaining territory.

00:10:21.000 So take the wrestling component, which we both agree on, it's unfair, then apply it to them going out into the front lines.

00:10:27.000 And they're fighting other men.

00:10:28.000 So it's like taking a woman's wrestling team and putting them against, for example, Syria's men's wrestling team.

00:10:34.000 Yeah, that's why I said you need to take, like, not just like an average woman. 1.00

00:10:39.000 It'd have to be more of like an elite woman to be able to join combat positions, like, without lowering the PT standards. 1.00

00:10:46.000 Right.

00:10:46.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:10:47.000 And even then, it would still be few and far between.

00:10:50.000 It would be a way smaller amount, but it would be the amount that needs to be there.

00:10:54.000 Hey, do you want to hear a stat that might blow your mind?

00:10:56.000 This is actually specifically as it relates to grappling.

00:10:57.000 So, I was looking at the strength differential.

00:11:00.000 Since we found Common Ground and you're very... I hope you feel that we've both been respectful.

00:11:03.000 This has actually been enjoyable.

00:11:05.000 It's a nice... It's a welcome break from some of the people on this campus.

00:11:08.000 So, you know, there are these studies you can find, and they were largely conducted in Japan, that a woman is 60% as strong as a man.

00:11:14.000 And I was thinking, I'm like, that doesn't sound right.

00:11:16.000 And then when I looked it up, well, these were studies in Japan, and there's a very big difference between, for example, Nordic, you know, males and females, the men are much bigger than the women, than Japanese men are to Japanese women.

00:11:26.000 These were very limited instances of, like, a leg press, you know, where they would sort of measure the actual contractile strength of the muscle, but not in a practical fashion.

00:11:33.000 So, in that same study, I believe, or in that paper at least, they measured grip strength.

00:11:38.000 And you know, this is important in wrestling.

00:11:39.000 It's particularly important in judo, because you're grabbing fabric.

00:11:41.000 Yeah.

00:11:42.000 Most women are weaker in their grip than 95% of men, but they took women from judo, from wrestling, from Olympic weightlifting, the most elite Olympic athletes, female athletes, and their grip strength was still weaker than 75% of men.

00:11:55.000 The strongest women.

00:11:56.000 That did surprise me.

00:11:57.000 I'm not, like, I'm not denying that, like... No, I know, but isn't that kind of surprising?

00:12:01.000 Like, wouldn't you think, you know, an Olympic athlete would be, like, less than 75% of men's grip?

00:12:05.000 Like, that's crazy.

00:12:06.000 I wouldn't even be too shocked, because, like, I think, like, because of, like, TV and, like, all, like, the, um, like, the roles that, like, certain, like, like, women are put in, where they, like, just have, like, Yeah, they have a chick beat up five guys.

00:12:20.000 It becomes kind of like a normal thing to think about.

00:12:23.000 Oh yeah, a woman beat up five guys. 1.00

00:12:25.000 But if you really think about it, I don't think a lot of people think about what testosterone can do.

00:12:33.000 There is a difference between men and women when it comes to testosterone.

00:12:38.000 And not just testosterone, but all kinds of, I mean, you know, luteinizing hormone, right?

00:12:42.000 Follicle-stimulating hormone.

00:12:43.000 You look at everything with men, like the bone density, fast stretch fibers. 0.95

00:12:46.000 No, but no, you're absolutely right, and I think, look, I think what you've said is very reasonable.

00:12:50.000 I think as a woman with skin in the game, because, you know, you wrestle, what I would, and I've been asking, I've actually met quite a few women here who have really been wonderful to speak with.

00:12:58.000 I would ask you, not forcing you, this is not patriarchy, that you present your reasoned viewpoints on a campus where they would be less than popular when women bring up the kind of arguments that I encounter. 0.98

00:13:08.000 We need women like you who are well-spoken, who understand the differences, to be able to speak out because I do think that a lot of women are afraid if they have a differing opinion from what they're supposed to have.

00:13:19.000 A lot of girls have expressed that today.

00:13:21.000 And that makes me sad. 0.99

00:13:24.000 Because men aren't afraid to bust each other's balls. 1.00

00:13:25.000 Women are generally nicer. 1.00

00:13:26.000 Yeah, not me.

00:13:27.000 Well, hey, you're wrestling.

00:13:29.000 Are you getting surgery?

00:13:31.000 I already got it.

00:13:32.000 I'm in rehab.

00:13:33.000 Did it work?

00:13:34.000 You know, I don't think it did.

00:13:36.000 Is it less mobile because I had to tighten it a little bit?

00:13:38.000 Yeah, I'm still working on that.

00:13:40.000 Yeah, that happened.

00:13:41.000 I don't know if you saw T.J.

00:13:42.000 Dillashaw fought recently, and he had a shoulder reconstruction, and it just popped out in a fight in the UFC.

00:13:47.000 He was a good wrestler.

00:13:48.000 And that's tough to recover from.

00:13:49.000 But if it's just your labrum back here, I've seen people that can... Well, yeah.

00:13:52.000 It turned into a slap tear, though, so they said the...

00:13:55.000 Yeah.

00:13:56.000 It might be a little more complicated.

00:13:57.000 Yeah.

00:13:58.000 Well, Godspeed with it, Olivia.

00:13:58.000 Well, alright.

00:13:59.000 I appreciate it.

00:14:00.000 Thank you for sitting down.

00:14:01.000 I really do appreciate it.

00:14:02.000 Well, that's always a nice start.

00:14:04.000 And take care of that labrum, Olivia. 0.99

00:14:05.000 Hope you're back on the mat soon.

00:14:07.000 That brings us to another female wrestler ploy. 1.00

00:14:10.000 And let's just say there was a bit more disagreement during this exchange.

00:14:16.000 So, Ploy, Stephen, nice to meet you.

00:14:17.000 Nice to meet you.

00:14:18.000 And how is Ploy spelled?

00:14:19.000 P-L-O-Y. 1.00

00:14:20.000 I had a one-in-two shot of getting it right with Y or I. I thought it was I. I didn't want to risk it.

00:14:20.000 P-L-O-Y.

00:14:27.000 So, Ploy, I don't know how familiar you are, if at all, with kind of the Change of Mind segments, but it's designed to hopefully allow people to rationalize their positions on seemingly controversial topics.

00:14:36.000 Okay.

00:14:37.000 It's been largely respectful today.

00:14:38.000 Every single conversation has been pretty productive, so I'm happy about that.

00:14:40.000 Okay.

00:14:41.000 It seems that there's a shift that's been taking place.

00:14:43.000 The conversation today.

00:14:46.000 I do not believe that women, biological women, should be in combat roles, meaning enlisted services. 0.96

00:14:52.000 For example, police roles that would involve violent altercations because of the fact that they are not only physically less capable, but it also brings up safety issues as it relates to not only themselves, but their brothers in arms.

00:15:06.000 And I say women just because It could be men who don't meet these PT requirements either, but we've only systematically lowered the standards in our military police force for women, and they fail anyway. 0.68

00:15:18.000 And I think that's a bad thing.

00:15:19.000 So, I was talking to the guy over there before about it, and my take was on, so I think it's an issue based on the format, on how we test it between men and women, rather than it being an issue between men and women, because The example I used is, so I'm a wrestler.

00:15:36.000 I'm on the wrestling team in my school.

00:15:38.000 I wrestle right there.

00:15:38.000 I'm here.

00:15:39.000 Olivia, was she one of your friends?

00:15:42.000 No, I don't.

00:15:45.000 I'm from New York.

00:15:47.000 I was on a boys team.

00:15:48.000 We always start off every year with 60 guys.

00:15:51.000 Okay, let's say including me, 60 people.

00:15:53.000 End of the year, always 20.

00:15:56.000 For me, it was always like, I asked him, I was like, okay, so let's say we raise the standard.

00:16:00.000 Let's say, because your issue right now is you're saying that people, the standards are lowering because they're allowing more women in. 0.99

00:16:06.000 No, they have lowered the standard.

00:16:07.000 So just to be clear, let me just be really clear, is they had a standard, right?

00:16:11.000 Women didn't pass it. 1.00

00:16:12.000 So we went from 2% of the enlisted forces.

00:16:14.000 Are you saying no woman passed it at all?

00:16:16.000 Very few.

00:16:16.000 Very, very few.

00:16:17.000 So there are women who passed it? 0.98

00:16:18.000 Okay.

00:16:18.000 Right.

00:16:19.000 Okay.

00:16:19.000 Then we lowered them.

00:16:20.000 We created two separate standards, male and female standards.

00:16:23.000 For example, like in the Marines, a woman can do half as many pull-ups and get a perfect 1.00

00:16:27.000 score, which I think is asinine. 0.68

00:16:29.000 Then we created a gender-neutral test. 0.86

00:16:31.000 Less than 10% of men fail, still 65% of women fail.

00:16:34.000 So no matter how much we continue to lower the test, where we eliminate, for example,

00:16:39.000 pull-ups in the Army, we eliminate push-ups entirely.

00:16:42.000 We change the times required for both men and women. 0.96

00:16:44.000 Women still fail at a higher rate. 0.99

00:16:46.000 So, all of the physical metrics that we've used, we've lowered for women, and it hasn't had good results.

00:16:52.000 Okay, but here's the thing.

00:16:53.000 You're saying that there are, you're saying very few, but there are women who pass. 0.85

00:16:57.000 Sure.

00:16:58.000 Your question is, right now, is women should not do any combat sports. 0.92

00:16:58.000 Okay. 0.92

00:17:01.000 So are you including the women who did pass?

00:17:02.000 I didn't say combat sports.

00:17:03.000 You said, I'm sorry, combat roles.

00:17:05.000 My bad.

00:17:05.000 Combat roles.

00:17:07.000 No, if we're saying, for example, if your position is, hey, if we return to the standards of the 70s, for example, the same exact standards that were required of men, and women met those, sure.

00:17:07.000 Yeah.

00:17:16.000 Let's say yes.

00:17:17.000 Then you would disagree with this statement?

00:17:20.000 I would disagree.

00:17:20.000 It would be based on real-world data because we don't, here's the thing, we don't have the data from those women, right?

00:17:25.000 We do have the data from the lowered states.

00:17:27.000 Two times the bone fracture rates, right?

00:17:31.000 65% higher physical disability discharge rates.

00:17:33.000 For every percentage point you increase a squad of police with women, every percentage point of women that you add to it, the chances of them being the victim of violence, the entire squad goes up 20%.

00:17:45.000 So we don't have the real world data of those elite capable women, but if we did return to those standards and the data would bear out that they were just as capable, I would have no problem.

00:17:54.000 But wouldn't it be an argue not on women, then, and based on... You're saying, like, the standards have lowered so much.

00:17:59.000 Wouldn't that be the issue on the standards?

00:18:01.000 So, that's a very valid point.

00:18:02.000 Now, here's the issue.

00:18:03.000 Here's why I say women. 1.00

00:18:04.000 Okay.

00:18:05.000 I do believe... I think you're suggesting a physical meritocracy.

00:18:07.000 Right?

00:18:08.000 If you pass the test, if you hit the requirements, you should be able to join.

00:18:12.000 Legislatively, we haven't lowered them based on race.

00:18:15.000 We haven't lowered them based on age.

00:18:17.000 We've only lowered them for women. 1.00

00:18:18.000 Okay.

00:18:19.000 And so, legislatively, it's that those women shouldn't be in combat. 1.00

00:18:24.000 There are plenty of women right now in combat roles who are supremely unqualified and they make their squad mates, uh, they put them in danger. 1.00

00:18:31.000 Not to mention our country.

00:18:32.000 I'm not going to argue whether your statement biologically is true or false.

00:18:35.000 I do believe women and men have a difference biologically.

00:18:37.000 My only problem is that your question is hitting to all women. 0.96

00:18:41.000 What about the women who do pass?

00:18:42.000 What about the women who... I'm not saying... Okay. 0.99

00:18:45.000 I'm not questioning your statistics because I don't know.

00:18:45.000 But if they do, then fine.

00:18:47.000 Because I don't know whether your statistics are true or false.

00:18:49.000 But I'm saying that Before they decreased the standard, there were women who did pass.

00:18:55.000 But your question is hitting all women. 1.00

00:18:57.000 Statistically, almost none.

00:19:00.000 That's not none.

00:19:00.000 Almost none.

00:19:01.000 Okay, great.

00:19:02.000 Then why did we lower the standards?

00:19:05.000 I personally don't know.

00:19:05.000 I don't think we should have.

00:19:07.000 If you're talking to me, I think, I think, personally, when you're talking about police force, when you're talking about the military, I think there is, there should be more money going into, you know, training.

00:19:18.000 I know that right now, training with defusing situations isn't very good.

00:19:22.000 There's barely any training on that.

00:19:23.000 There's barely any training with Guns or barely any training like in the police force.

00:19:28.000 I don't know about the military.

00:19:29.000 I'm not very like Familiar with that, but I know the training isn't as good as it could be and I feel like for me I Feel like my problem like I came here for this like to talk to you It's more like one my problem is with the question because I feel like the question is way too generalized.

00:19:46.000 That's not a question It's a statement the statement is to generalize.

00:19:49.000 I'm sorry and I just feel like My issue is more with, you're saying, the standard rather than the biological difference.

00:19:57.000 Yes, but hopefully, let me try and clarify again.

00:20:01.000 We have only legislatively, because of the modern feminist movement, lowered the standards, which I believe is sexist, because women are weaker and less capable than men. 0.98

00:20:10.000 So we have only lowered them for women. 0.97

00:20:11.000 We haven't lowered them for anyone else.

00:20:13.000 And that's a bad thing.

00:20:15.000 So the reason I'm saying women is because this applies exclusively, the lower standards applies exclusively to women. 0.96

00:20:22.000 I have a question.

00:20:22.000 From the government.

00:20:23.000 Does that clarify it?

00:20:24.000 That does clarify the little things.

00:20:26.000 But my only question that I brought up to him is that... You said a little thing.

00:20:30.000 What does it not clarify?

00:20:32.000 Oh, no, sorry.

00:20:33.000 I mean, I have a little thing that's been bothering me that I need to clarify.

00:20:33.000 It clarifies it for me.

00:20:37.000 I argued with him.

00:20:39.000 I said, could you say that because of the technological advancements we have today in the military and in artillery, that there is a less physical demand in the military?

00:20:50.000 Sorry, I can address that question.

00:20:53.000 I was going to say, and you're saying combat roles, but there are a lot of combat roles that don't necessarily need as much physical demand.

00:21:00.000 Well, that's why I clarified.

00:21:00.000 I said physical combat roles where you would encounter violence.

00:21:04.000 Well, you could be physical, but not completely physical.

00:21:07.000 Well, I have no problem, for example, with women in the police force, for example, being interrogators, forensic evidence, detectives. 0.74

00:21:14.000 These are very important roles.

00:21:15.000 These are pivotal roles.

00:21:16.000 In the military, For example, combat roles, aside from the reflexes, where women are not quite as quick as men, they tend to make very proficient pilots. 0.96

00:21:24.000 I don't have a problem with that.

00:21:24.000 I still don't have any problem with intel officer roles.

00:21:27.000 Or if it's, for example, drone operation, where these tests can be blind, right?

00:21:31.000 The issue is the tests for physical combat readiness are not blind.

00:21:35.000 They are inherently, I argue, sexist, in that they are embarrassingly low for women, and the real world, so we might say, Sure, there are technological advancements. 0.96

00:21:44.000 It doesn't change the fact that the bone fracture rate is astronomical for women the second you put them under load-bearing, which makes sense because of less bone mineral density. 0.85

00:21:52.000 The fact that they're discharged for physical disability at a rate much higher than men, and also, by the way, several multiples higher, to be discharged with PTSD, to require psychotropic medication.

00:22:02.000 So there is a psychological component, where we've also lowered some of those standards exclusively for women. 0.92

00:22:08.000 I believe that's inherently sexist, but more importantly, it doesn't make us a safer fighting force to lower those standards.

00:22:14.000 But we've only done it for women. 0.99

00:22:15.000 Okay.

00:22:16.000 For the... When you're talking about psychologically, I feel like there is... Like, I feel like it is sexist towards men.

00:22:22.000 I do feel like men should be taken as seriously when it comes to mental health and military as women are, and I feel like there is both issues with both sides.

00:22:29.000 But... That may be true.

00:22:31.000 But my thing is now... So, you're saying... You're talking about physical combat roles.

00:22:35.000 So, instead of saying the statement, woman should not be doing combat roles, would you say it is

00:22:42.000 true to instead say women should not be doing physical combat roles? Because 1.00

00:22:47.000 the thing is you're saying you agree that they should be... Well that's what I said

00:22:49.000 when you sat down. Yeah, when I sat down. But the thing is at the end of the day those combat roles are still combat

00:22:55.000 roles. They might not be as physical to many but they are still combat roles. Like I said, were any

00:23:00.000 physical combat roles that were encounter physical violence?

00:23:03.000 So if we don't want to use the military, go to the police force.

00:23:05.000 Women should not be on the beat. 1.00

00:23:07.000 Women should not be out there where they're going to deal with a guy my size on PCP. 1.00

00:23:10.000 But even if you are in IT, even if you are, like, when you are in the military, you're at risk for... Well, I'm talking about police force because I think it's more clear here.

00:23:10.000 Absolutely not.

00:23:16.000 Okay, so you're switching to police force now instead of the military.

00:23:18.000 No, but I've said combat roles and I've said both police force when I sat down.

00:23:22.000 So if you're talking about drones, that's technically combat.

00:23:24.000 I was very clear in saying, and let me restate, I'm not saying that women cannot be in the military.

00:23:28.000 I'm not saying that women cannot be in the police force. 0.50

00:23:30.000 I'm saying that lowering the standards, as we have done decade after decade after decade, to increase female recruitment as part of a diversity agenda has resulted in more violence against women and a less capable military and police force.

00:23:44.000 So in the police force, we're not talking about drones.

00:23:47.000 We're talking about being out there having to apprehend someone physically.

00:23:51.000 Women shouldn't be in those roles. 1.00

00:23:52.000 Why do you think they want more women in the first place, then? 1.00

00:23:55.000 Like, if there's this argument, why do you think they want more women in the first place? 0.96

00:23:58.000 Because we have this asinine obsession with diversity.

00:24:01.000 I think it's more like, in today's society, there are less and less men that want to join the military, and they need higher numbers. 0.52

00:24:10.000 That's what my think is.

00:24:11.000 Well, here's what's interesting about that.

00:24:12.000 Because I actually went down a rabbit hole on this.

00:24:15.000 I've heard this argument there's a recruiting crisis.

00:24:17.000 But as we have increased our percentage of recruits in women, 2% to about 16% in enlisted forces.

00:24:24.000 Women make up about 13% of the police force.

00:24:26.000 It's a little bit harder to measure because municipalities use different numbers, but they've increased.

00:24:30.000 Just clarification, are we talking about the police or military?

00:24:33.000 I'm giving you both.

00:24:34.000 2% to 16%, let me really break it down so we don't do the wordplay.

00:24:37.000 2% to 16% enlisted forces.

00:24:40.000 Gone to 13%.

00:24:42.000 Women, please. 1.00

00:24:43.000 It's remained stagnant since about 2000, but increased dramatically.

00:24:46.000 As that number has gone up of women and we've lowered requirements, that's when we face the recruitment crisis.

00:24:50.000 Now, I'm not saying it's because women have been enlisted, but it unequivocally cannot be argued that recruiting more women increases our capacity to recruit.

00:24:59.000 The inverse is true. 0.89

00:25:00.000 Correlation doesn't equal causation.

00:25:01.000 But it cannot be argued that including more women increases recruits. 0.66

00:25:04.000 It decreases them.

00:25:07.000 or at least a decrease occurs as we simultaneously increase female recruits. 1.00

00:25:07.000 Yes. 1.00

00:25:10.000 I have my theories as to why that's the case, but it's not observable in data.

00:25:14.000 I'd be making an inference, but the data is what it is.

00:25:16.000 So going back to the police force. Like you said, you wrestle, right?

00:25:19.000 And here, is it freestyle wrestling? Yes.

00:25:22.000 You wrestled in high school? Yes. So folk style?

00:25:25.000 Well, I did freestyle, too.

00:25:25.000 Uh, yeah.

00:25:27.000 Did you do freestyle?

00:25:28.000 Did you do any Greco-Roman as well?

00:25:28.000 Off my school.

00:25:30.000 I know that's more international, right?

00:25:31.000 No, no.

00:25:32.000 My club did do it.

00:25:33.000 I did a little, but I never competed in it.

00:25:35.000 I didn't like it.

00:25:36.000 It's a little bit different when you take away any of the leg attacks.

00:25:36.000 Yeah, I know.

00:25:39.000 It's a totally different sport.

00:25:40.000 Not my type of thing.

00:25:41.000 A lot of suplexing.

00:25:43.000 Oh, I love suplexing.

00:25:44.000 Just not Greco-Roman.

00:25:45.000 Well, I'm saying it's almost exclusively suplexing in Greco-Roman, right?

00:25:47.000 You don't do any... What's your favorite takedown?

00:25:49.000 What do you usually use? 0.98

00:25:50.000 I like going for a high crotch. 0.99

00:25:51.000 Oh, like going for a high crotch? 0.99

00:25:52.000 So do you go in for a low single and kind of ride it up to a high crotch? 0.99

00:25:55.000 Do you chain it or do you just shoot high crotch? 0.83

00:25:57.000 I don't think you can hit a low single to a high crotch because then you'd go behind for a low single. 0.79

00:26:01.000 No, a little single where you'd go down, or like an ankle pick where you'd go down right up to the high crotch. 0.57

00:26:04.000 I don't like that because I'm short anyway. 0.92

00:26:06.000 I just like going right for the legs. 0.98

00:26:08.000 Right for the high crotch? 0.99

00:26:08.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:26:09.000 A friend of mine actually, a UFC fighter, Daniel Cormier, that's his go-to is a high crotch single.

00:26:13.000 And yeah, it's just interesting to me because we have had this, for example, in wrestling.

00:26:19.000 You're in college now.

00:26:20.000 Yes.

00:26:20.000 Do you wrestle any of the men?

00:26:22.000 Um, no, but I did last year.

00:26:24.000 Only until recently.

00:26:25.000 It's my first time ever being on a women's team.

00:26:27.000 Oh, okay.

00:26:27.000 I've been completely, it was... We had, for the first time ever, we had a girl on my team besides me, but for the most part, I've always been the only girl.

00:26:36.000 In club and in school.

00:26:36.000 Okay.

00:26:37.000 Okay.

00:26:38.000 Well, I had two friends in club.

00:26:39.000 Yeah, and in college it's a little bit different.

00:26:41.000 How do women fare with the men in college wrestling? 1.00

00:26:43.000 If it's the same weight class, same division of sports.

00:26:46.000 We never wrestle.

00:26:47.000 I haven't wrestled a guy in college.

00:26:50.000 Because there's... We don't even wrestle the same styles.

00:26:53.000 We can't wrestle each other.

00:26:54.000 Why do you think women don't wrestle the men? 1.00

00:26:58.000 Because we wrestle freestyle and they wrestle folk style.

00:27:00.000 It's a completely different style.

00:27:01.000 There are plenty of male freestyle wrestlers in college.

00:27:05.000 Certainly at a club level, yeah.

00:27:06.000 At a club level, but collegiately we're not allowed to.

00:27:08.000 But why at a club level do you think women don't wrestle men? 1.00

00:27:11.000 My friend, she qualified for Fargo under Greco Roman for men.

00:27:11.000 I mean, they do.

00:27:15.000 Why do you think that as a rule, when we're creating women's divisions and men's divisions in wrestling, for example NCAA championships and certainly international wrestling, why do women not wrestle men? 0.67

00:27:28.000 If you do the word play here, why do women not wrestle men? 1.00

00:27:30.000 It's not a trick question.

00:27:32.000 The thing is, I can't really answer that question because I've wrestled men my whole life.

00:27:36.000 This is my first time ever not wrestling men.

00:27:38.000 So I can't say why I don't, because I do.

00:27:40.000 And you're the only woman in the history of wrestling who beat them consistently? 1.00

00:27:44.000 No, there are... No, there are not.

00:27:47.000 I want you to restate your question just one more time.

00:27:49.000 I'm sorry.

00:27:51.000 Would you be the only woman in history who, in a high level of wrestling, consistently beat men in your age, weight, and skill bracket?

00:27:57.000 No, because there are girls better than me who have beaten guys. 0.99

00:28:00.000 In your age, skill, and weight bracket, on a national level, name me one female who won a national championship in men's wrestling.

00:28:06.000 I know Heaven Spich won state in South Carolina.

00:28:09.000 I was pretty young at that time.

00:28:09.000 I don't remember what year it was.

00:28:11.000 That's her full name.

00:28:12.000 I know a bunch of girls... In the NCAA, she was All-American? 1.00

00:28:16.000 You're talking about college wrestling?

00:28:17.000 College wrestling or college age club wrestling?

00:28:19.000 There aren't any females or males who wrestle together in college age, because that's when you get separated.

00:28:22.000 That returns me to my question.

00:28:23.000 That's why I asked, why do they not?

00:28:25.000 You said they do.

00:28:26.000 I said I did in high school.

00:28:27.000 No, no, but I said college.

00:28:29.000 Club or college.

00:28:30.000 You said it was a different style.

00:28:31.000 I'm going to frame this again.

00:28:33.000 Collegiate level wrestling.

00:28:35.000 I said, why do women not wrestle men? 1.00

00:28:35.000 You said I was wrong. 1.00

00:28:38.000 You said, they do.

00:28:40.000 So now you're saying you go back to high school.

00:28:41.000 High school is very different.

00:28:42.000 At a high level, why are there no women? 1.00

00:28:45.000 Take Sarah McMahon. 0.67

00:28:46.000 Silver medalist, right?

00:28:47.000 Fought Ronda Rousey. 1.00

00:28:48.000 That's not even... I don't even know what that is.

00:28:51.000 I don't... She's a silver medalist in the Olympics in wrestling. 0.97

00:28:51.000 WWE? 0.97

00:28:57.000 Because you said Ronda Rousey.

00:28:59.000 She lost to Ronda Rousey, who was a bronze medalist in judo. 0.99

00:29:01.000 Kayla Harrison.

00:29:02.000 These are people who have been on my program.

00:29:04.000 Kayla Harrison, two-time Olympic gold medalist in judo.

00:29:08.000 And on the program, I say this because would we both agree that the only American to ever win a gold medal in judo, and she won two, probably qualified to discuss.

00:29:15.000 She said it wouldn't even be close with men.

00:29:17.000 Low-level hobbyist men.

00:29:19.000 Why is that?

00:29:19.000 Okay.

00:29:20.000 I agree with that one.

00:29:21.000 Because I do agree, I said in the beginning, there is a biological difference between male and female, between muscle mass.

00:29:26.000 Not just muscle mass, bone density, fast twitch muscle fibers, reflexes.

00:29:31.000 So we would agree there's a reason that it's separate.

00:29:32.000 But when you said it to me in the beginning, I thought you meant in general and I said I can't say that because in high school I've only wrestled male, I don't have the...

00:29:39.000 Sure, anyone can wrestle anybody.

00:29:41.000 I mean, you know, you and I could find a mat and wrestle.

00:29:43.000 It doesn't mean that it's competitive.

00:29:44.000 When you said, why don't I, I thought you meant, like, back then.

00:29:47.000 No, I said, why don't women? 1.00

00:29:48.000 Why do they separate the divisions?

00:29:49.000 And I think we've roundabout way to both agree that there are strong biological differences between men and women.

00:29:55.000 There's a reason that the divisions are separate and it's not competitive.

00:29:58.000 So, let's take wrestling.

00:30:01.000 I was talking with one of your friends, I believe, or someone who wrestled here or hasn't wrestled at school yet.

00:30:04.000 She has a torn labrum. 1.00

00:30:05.000 Her name was Olivia.

00:30:08.000 We were saying sports are sort of allegorical, analogous for war, right?

00:30:12.000 In a lot of ways.

00:30:13.000 It's a way of sort of competing without killing each other.

00:30:15.000 So take wrestling, where we know it's not even remotely competitive.

00:30:18.000 Now apply killing.

00:30:21.000 We need the most effective fighting force possible, just like I wouldn't send out a woman, for example, to wrestle Kale Sanderson. 1.00

00:30:28.000 I wouldn't send a woman who can't do a pull-up, and that's the majority of female recruits in the military. 1.00

00:30:33.000 I would not send her out to war.

00:30:36.000 She doesn't lose a match. 0.85

00:30:37.000 She loses her life, and so does the guy next to her relying on her.

00:30:41.000 I think it's important.

00:30:42.000 More important than diversity.

00:30:43.000 My, again, I'm gonna bring it back to the standard point.

00:30:46.000 I think that's an issue with the standards we have in the military, in the police force.

00:30:50.000 I think the standards aren't high enough.

00:30:52.000 Again, I... I agree.

00:30:53.000 We can argue that there is a biological difference, but again, you're also talking about people have guns, they have a less technological advancement.

00:31:00.000 Today's military, technologically, is off the charts.

00:31:03.000 Like, it is crazy how much money we put into the military every single day, technologically advancing ourselves.

00:31:08.000 Sure.

00:31:09.000 So, I actually agree with the statement you just made.

00:31:11.000 I think it's very important.

00:31:12.000 Where you said, for example, guns, advancement, let's just say in firearms.

00:31:15.000 That does equalize the playing field, right?

00:31:17.000 Okay.

00:31:17.000 In a lot of ways.

00:31:18.000 So it's a perfect example.

00:31:20.000 For the same reason I support women being able to carry firearms, and I actually support them carrying firearms because it's the only way to be stronger than a man. 0.98

00:31:27.000 It's a mechanical advantage, right?

00:31:29.000 Yes, we have advances in firearms.

00:31:30.000 It's still the only way that a woman can overpower a strong man. 1.00

00:31:34.000 Flip side of that coin, the police force?

00:31:36.000 Woman will have to use a firearm. 1.00

00:31:37.000 She'll have to use a weapon. 0.99

00:31:38.000 Because she can't physically subdue a man. 0.99

00:31:40.000 And that, I don't believe, is something where you talk about de-escalation.

00:31:44.000 If you have to go to your tool belt...

00:31:46.000 Because you cannot physically restrain a 250-pound man on PCP.

00:31:49.000 That's not a good thing.

00:31:50.000 But do you always have to?

00:31:51.000 Because I'm saying between men and women, I'm saying in the police force in general, like, I don't remember the exact, like, number, so I can't really quote on this, but I know for a fact that there is not enough training on de-escalation.

00:32:05.000 Like, they barely do any training on it at all.

00:32:08.000 I agree with the statement that women are... I agree that they should train that robustly.

00:32:12.000 Okay, I agree that you're saying, like, men and women, like, women are physically smaller, we are biologically different, but I'm saying, in general, you can't put the whole argument on just women rather than putting it on a structural problem.

00:32:25.000 Right, and I believe the structural problem is because of the matriarchy and the problem with feminism trying to lower standards to accommodate women. 1.00

00:32:30.000 But can't you say it's also sexism because it's the idea that, like, I was saying before, like, you were talking about in the military how a lot of it is, um, there's a lot of things given to women and it's, like, men should be, um, we're talking about, like, for example, mental health, for example, and we were saying that, like, um... Women are more likely to have PTSD, be discharged... But it's also because men aren't treated as seriously for it because it's, like, That could be true. 0.57

00:32:51.000 It's an inference, but I think your inference might be correct.

00:32:54.000 Yes.

00:32:55.000 That could also be, instead of saying because of feminists, it could also be because of sexism. 1.00

00:32:59.000 Towards men?

00:33:01.000 You may be correct on that.

00:33:02.000 I think it's probably a little of column A, a little of column B. I think we have quite a lot of data that shows that men tend to perform better under high compression stress scenarios than women in general.

00:33:11.000 There are always exceptions to the rule.

00:33:13.000 And it tends to be more traumatic for women. 0.97

00:33:15.000 And then especially when you combine being on the receiving end of a traumatic injury in the military Same thing in the police force.

00:33:23.000 But you mentioned de-escalation.

00:33:24.000 Now you're, you do, you wrestle.

00:33:26.000 So you have some understanding of, I would say, controlling or subduing the human body, right?

00:33:30.000 That's what all grappling arts are, whether it's Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling, Judo.

00:33:34.000 I do believe that should be trained in the police force so that you don't have to use a weapon.

00:33:38.000 I think that we need higher standards, as a matter of fact.

00:33:39.000 I think every member of the police should have basic grappling capabilities so that they don't have to, for example, grab their gun or grab their taser.

00:33:47.000 Now de-escalation.

00:33:49.000 I agree with you, that's very important.

00:33:50.000 Here's what I would argue is the reality of de-escalation.

00:33:53.000 You can only de-escalate if you have the nuclear option.

00:33:57.000 What do I mean?

00:33:58.000 You can't de-escalate with a large, strong, likely inebriated man who doesn't want to go back to prison if he sees a small, weak woman trying to de-escalate. 0.97

00:34:07.000 He knows that he has a trump card and he can attack you.

00:34:10.000 Statistically, it happens a lot.

00:34:12.000 De-escalation can only take place with formidable capability.

00:34:17.000 Women don't have that, physically. 1.00

00:34:19.000 As a general rule?

00:34:20.000 Not all women. 0.96

00:34:21.000 And certainly most of the women in our police force today. 0.95

00:34:25.000 For me, I'm not disagreeing with your statement.

00:34:29.000 I actually kind of agree with your statement.

00:34:30.000 My only thing is, again, like I said, for de-escalation, when I think of de-escalation, I think of more like...

00:34:36.000 You know, like, um, physical therapy, you know how we learn about the cognitive, whatever, like, um... Cognitive behavioral therapy?

00:34:41.000 Yeah.

00:34:42.000 You've ever heard about, like, you've ever, um, taken a psychology class?

00:34:46.000 Sure.

00:34:46.000 Okay.

00:34:47.000 And they teach us about, like, different things about the human, like, behavior and things like that.

00:34:51.000 I feel like, the way I think about it is I feel like cops should be taught that because they should be taught how to behave and be, like, not behave, but you know, how to, like... Oh, I agree with what you're saying.

00:34:59.000 Yeah.

00:35:01.000 I think it's a very important component of the job, right?

00:35:04.000 I think it's a very important component to be able to de-escalate.

00:35:06.000 And to be fair, most police-civilian interactions, most of them are not violent.

00:35:10.000 But every single police officer, male or female, will have many violent interactions throughout their career.

00:35:16.000 And it only takes one.

00:35:18.000 And if you're not physically up to the task, and the women in our police force, the vast majority are not, not all of them, but the vast majority are not, that's a problem.

00:35:25.000 If I can, let me give you, this is, we've talked about the empirical and anecdotal story.

00:35:28.000 Okay.

00:35:29.000 And I come from a background, I've done judo, brazilian jiu-jitsu, we don't really have wrestling in Canada.

00:35:33.000 Okay.

00:35:34.000 Oh, Canadian wrestling, sorry.

00:35:36.000 I know, it's not very, yeah.

00:35:37.000 There's the Olympic team, and like, and then everyone else, there aren't very, it doesn't happen in high school.

00:35:43.000 But now I'm a new father, and I've also coached kids.

00:35:48.000 You have a lot of moms, for example, who when they have sons, they will tell them, if they're dealing with a bully, and I had this, they say, you walk up to him and you tell him that he better stop.

00:35:48.000 And here's the problem, too.

00:35:56.000 You know, he needs to stop or else.

00:35:58.000 Or you tell him that he needs to stop, that this is, you know, he's just doing it because he feels bad about himself. 1.00

00:36:02.000 In other words, whatever techniques that are often told to young boys, it doesn't work if the bully knows he can kick your ass. 0.99

00:36:08.000 It happened to me when I was young. 1.00

00:36:09.000 I said, well, you know, stop.

00:36:11.000 This is wrong.

00:36:12.000 Well, he said, what?

00:36:12.000 You need to stop doing this.

00:36:13.000 And kicked my ass. 1.00

00:36:14.000 Only once I was able to physically defend myself could I de-escalate the situation. 1.00

00:36:19.000 Then at that point I could say, look, do you really want to go this route?

00:36:22.000 And that's what we actually teach children.

00:36:24.000 We teach children.

00:36:25.000 We teach them jujitsu.

00:36:25.000 The Gracies actually do this.

00:36:27.000 It's important we teach the psychology.

00:36:28.000 We say, Avoid it.

00:36:30.000 And then if they continue to harass you, ask them, are you challenging me to a fight?

00:36:35.000 So psychologically the bully has a choice to make.

00:36:38.000 Either yes, in which case you use what you know.

00:36:41.000 Or if he says most of the time he'll say no, it's de-escalated.

00:36:44.000 But you can only ask that question if you know the answer is yes, then you can handle it.

00:36:49.000 Women can't handle it if they're in an inner city and a man is on PCP. 1.00

00:36:52.000 You can't de-escalate from a position of weakness.

00:36:56.000 Does that make sense?

00:36:58.000 Kind of.

00:37:00.000 If we didn't have nukes and we told Russia, you know, we told Russia to stop it. 0.89

00:37:04.000 Think they'd care?

00:37:05.000 No.

00:37:06.000 No, exactly.

00:37:07.000 You can only have peace through strength, de-escalation, if they know that when push comes to shove, there are consequences.

00:37:07.000 So it does matter.

00:37:13.000 And the statistics are really scary.

00:37:15.000 Women as far as being on the receiving end of violent attacks from their police officers.

00:37:19.000 It's not good.

00:37:20.000 And I don't want to see that. I don't want to see women getting hurt because of some diversity quota. 1.00

00:37:24.000 I don't think that's a good thing for women, and I don't think it's a good thing for the guy next to her. 1.00

00:37:27.000 My thing is, I was talking to him, I'm not working that guy away, but I was talking to him about something,

00:37:30.000 and we were talking about how police need to be retrained.

00:37:34.000 They get trained once and then they go for the job.

00:37:38.000 Men too.

00:37:38.000 I feel like over time, he was giving the example, it wasn't me, he was saying like, police officer gets trained at a job, freshly trained, whatever, physically built, whatever.

00:37:47.000 Years go by, he gets fat, he gets slow, you know, he doesn't get retrained.

00:37:50.000 The training basically just leaves his head.

00:37:53.000 I feel like, if you're talking about like that, it's...

00:37:57.000 It's honestly the same.

00:37:58.000 It's like, I don't feel like... No, I agree.

00:38:00.000 I think that's terrible.

00:38:00.000 I agree.

00:38:01.000 I just don't think that the solution is a reverse Nirvana fallacy.

00:38:05.000 Well, then let's just lower the standards for everyone.

00:38:06.000 I think we need to raise it.

00:38:07.000 I think we're both agreeing.

00:38:08.000 We need to raise the standards.

00:38:09.000 Let me put it this way.

00:38:10.000 Would you agree with me, and I've talked about this on the show, that not only should officers have to display not only physical capabilities as far as strength, endurance, being fit, they also should have to display physical capabilities, for example, in grappling.

00:38:21.000 I think she should also have mental physical capabilities.

00:38:23.000 I agree.

00:38:24.000 I agree it shouldn't be a lower standard for women. 0.52

00:38:24.000 I agree with that. 0.52

00:38:24.000 Okay. 0.52

00:38:27.000 should be forced to re-pass an exam every year.

00:38:29.000 I agree.

00:38:30.000 Yes, okay.

00:38:31.000 Then I think we're agreeing on the same thing.

00:38:32.000 My issue is that exam can't be to a lower standard for women. 1.00

00:38:37.000 Right now it is.

00:38:38.000 Okay, I agree with that.

00:38:39.000 I agree it shouldn't be a lower standard for women. 0.52

00:38:41.000 But the thing is, I'm saying again, if a woman passes that exam, again, that statement,

00:38:45.000 you're saying, okay, you're saying there's not as many women passing that exam, but there 0.99

00:38:48.000 are still women passing that exam. 1.00

00:38:50.000 Well, right now there are no women passing the exam for men because they don't take it. 0.99

00:38:53.000 They have a separate exam.

00:38:53.000 Yeah.

00:38:54.000 But I'm saying, you're saying women shouldn't do it at all, but I'm saying if there is a higher exam, if it's the same as men, and if women pass it, are you saying... If we hold them to the highest standard possible, and the women, you know, probably 1-2% of women who apply pass, and afterwards we would look at the real world data and they're just as effective in the police force or military, I would have no problem with it.

00:39:16.000 Then I agree with that statement.

00:39:17.000 That's the statement I agree with.

00:39:18.000 Okay.

00:39:19.000 Well, thank you very much.

00:39:20.000 It was, what, Ploy?

00:39:22.000 Ploy.

00:39:23.000 I was close.

00:39:24.000 It's a tough name for me to remember with an I. It's OK. 0.99

00:39:26.000 Well, thank you very much.

00:39:26.000 I appreciate you sitting down.

00:39:27.000 And are you wrestling this year?

00:39:29.000 Yeah, we actually have a meet today, tonight.

00:39:30.000 Oh, OK.

00:39:31.000 Who are you guys wrestling?

00:39:32.000 Each other.

00:39:35.000 It's our first year team.

00:39:36.000 Our coach is Randy Miller.

00:39:37.000 She's a bronze Olympian.

00:39:38.000 Oh, wow.

00:39:40.000 And actually, I'm familiar with Randy Miller.

00:39:42.000 I don't know her personally.

00:39:44.000 So I hope to make her, you know, she's been training us and she handpicked us.

00:39:48.000 So I hope to make her proud.

00:39:49.000 Well, I hope so too.

00:39:50.000 If you see this coach, sorry coach. 0.56

00:39:52.000 Hopefully you don't run into a bunch of Dagestanis or Eastern Bloc people because boy, they are monsters on the mats. 1.00

00:39:57.000 They grow up wrestling bears from when they're three years old.

00:39:59.000 But yeah, I have quite a few friends who have gone to international competitions, more so Greco-Roman because that's more practiced internationally.

00:40:06.000 And yeah, it is a tough, tough sport.

00:40:08.000 So all the respect in the world to you.

00:40:09.000 Thank you.

00:40:10.000 Thank you so much.

00:40:11.000 Well, thank you, Ploy.

00:40:12.000 A little bit of disagreement, though I wouldn't say contentious, and I always appreciate someone willing to step out of their comfort zone.

00:40:17.000 Hopefully some positions might be reconsidered after the conversation.

00:40:20.000 Now, our next guest was really a bright spot in the day because she brought something completely new to this installment.

00:40:27.000 Meet Jay.

00:40:28.000 Jay, Stephen, nice to meet you.

00:40:29.000 Nice to meet you.

00:40:31.000 Do you mind scooting in just a little bit here?

00:40:31.000 Nice to meet you.

00:40:32.000 Of course.

00:40:33.000 Okay.

00:40:34.000 So, Jay, I know you've been waiting a little while.

00:40:36.000 I don't know how familiar you are with kind of these segments, what we do with Change My Mind.

00:40:39.000 It's just hopefully an opportunity to rationalize positions on seemingly controversial topics.

00:40:45.000 Surprisingly, today it hasn't seemed to be that controversial.

00:40:46.000 They've all been respectful thus far.

00:40:49.000 Uh, my position, and sometimes you can't fit it all on the sign, I do not believe that women, uh, biological women should be in roles of physical combat, enlisted forces, a police force where they would encounter physical violence, uh, simply because they're more likely to be the victim of violence, uh, they're less safe, and so are their brothers in arms, uh, and that people are sworn to protect.

00:41:10.000 And legislatively, we have been systematically lowering the barrier to entry and physical and mental requirements in order to accommodate women in these enlisted forces.

00:41:19.000 I think that's a horrible course to be on.

00:41:23.000 If you disagree with me, I'm more than glad to hear you change my mind.

00:41:26.000 I mean, I'm more here to just learn about the other side.

00:41:28.000 I mean, serving our country takes a lot of heart to even begin to think about.

00:41:35.000 Sure.

00:41:36.000 And I guess...

00:41:38.000 My, I have family who served and I really wanted to be ground control for the Air Force a lot.

00:41:42.000 Okay.

00:41:43.000 And then I flew a teeny plane and I was like, yeah, no, I can't do that.

00:41:48.000 What kind of plane did you fly?

00:41:49.000 A teeny little Cessna.

00:41:50.000 Like a Cessna 182?

00:41:50.000 Yeah.

00:41:51.000 Oh, okay.

00:41:52.000 Little, little, little yellow one.

00:41:53.000 Yeah.

00:41:54.000 Did you get your pilot's license?

00:41:56.000 Oh, uh, no, my dad did though.

00:41:57.000 Oh, okay.

00:41:59.000 So you did it illegally, I guess.

00:42:00.000 Maybe we shouldn't, okay.

00:42:01.000 Let's just say it was training courses.

00:42:02.000 It was.

00:42:03.000 Completely on the up and up.

00:42:03.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:42:04.000 Wonk, wonk.

00:42:05.000 Alright.

00:42:06.000 But, I mean, I guess, it's such a difficult water to tread.

00:42:11.000 There's a lot of obstacles either way.

00:42:15.000 And I really feel like just, gosh.

00:42:19.000 I don't think it's very difficult.

00:42:20.000 What's the role of our military?

00:42:20.000 Let me ask you this.

00:42:22.000 To protect and serve.

00:42:23.000 Right.

00:42:24.000 So, to do that, you need to be the most effective fighting, effective protective service possible.

00:42:28.000 That's the goal.

00:42:30.000 We're not accomplishing that by lowering the physical standards and the requirements to a point of, frankly, becoming a national embarrassment in order to accommodate women. 1.00

00:42:39.000 That's the only reason we do it.

00:42:40.000 So I don't think it's very complicated.

00:42:41.000 At one point we had standards, for example, that involved load-bearing jogging to a significant degree, pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups.

00:42:49.000 They've been eliminated in almost all branches of the military.

00:42:52.000 A marine female can do half as many pull-ups to achieve a perfect score. 1.00

00:42:56.000 And the net result is they incur bone fractures at a very high rate.

00:43:00.000 They're discharged for physical disability at a very high rate.

00:43:03.000 Squads are the result of victims of violence at a higher rate.

00:43:07.000 Police squads are the victims of violence at a much higher rate when women are on the force. 0.99

00:43:11.000 And that's because we've lowered the requirements specifically to accommodate women in the name of diversity. 1.00

00:43:17.000 We'd have no problem if the standards were where they always were.

00:43:21.000 And a select few women met them.

00:43:22.000 Just none of them did, statistically.

00:43:25.000 That's all it is.

00:43:26.000 Doesn't mean, by the way, that women can't, for example, be ground control. 1.00

00:43:29.000 Or even pilots.

00:43:31.000 Certainly in the police force, investigators.

00:43:34.000 Perhaps negotiators.

00:43:35.000 Forensic evidence.

00:43:38.000 Interrogators.

00:43:39.000 Just not on the beat where you have a fellow squad mate who is in physical harm's way if you're not physically capable.

00:43:44.000 That's all.

00:43:46.000 Is that unreasonable?

00:43:46.000 Yeah.

00:43:48.000 Well, it's your point of view, and so I take it with as much respect as I'd take mine.

00:43:52.000 Well, what's your point of view?

00:43:53.000 Forgive me, I don't understand your point of view.

00:43:55.000 What's your point of view?

00:43:56.000 Because here's the reality, right?

00:43:57.000 We've lowered physical requirements to accommodate women. 1.00

00:44:00.000 They still fail, the vast majority of them anyway.

00:44:02.000 We can't really lower them much more.

00:44:04.000 But they're getting into the military now with a much lower standard, and the results are bad.

00:44:09.000 I think that's bad.

00:44:10.000 What's your point of view, just so I understand?

00:44:14.000 Gosh, never really thought about it that much.

00:44:15.000 Um, well... Well, that's okay.

00:44:18.000 If you haven't thought about it, then maybe you don't have your point of view established, and that's okay.

00:44:22.000 Well, that's part of why I'm here, is to see how that stands up against something else that I'm not familiar with.

00:44:28.000 Well, I mean... Can I ask you something?

00:44:30.000 Why do you think you're unfamiliar with my stance?

00:44:31.000 Because it's shared by at least half the country.

00:44:35.000 Well, I've not really taken a lot of consideration myself in being in the forces, and so I haven't really looked personally.

00:44:41.000 I bet that could look good for me or someone like me.

00:44:45.000 And I know women who have served and fought and men who have served and fought, so my general consensus is that they served, you know?

00:44:52.000 So to me, it's really not that much about it.

00:44:56.000 I guess for me it would depend person to person and that would, I guess, it would really create a lot of problems and I do see that with individualizing someone who's serving so much based on all these different things.

00:45:13.000 Like I know I'm inqualifiable because I'm tiny.

00:45:16.000 You could shoot a bazooka and I'd go flying, you know? 0.97

00:45:18.000 If you shot a bazooka at me, I'd go flying. 0.98

00:45:20.000 That's kind of the purpose of a bazooka. 0.54

00:45:22.000 I don't think any of us would survive a... Oh, you mean if you fired it and I kicked it?

00:45:26.000 Yeah.

00:45:26.000 Oh, okay.

00:45:27.000 But I do believe that with such a difficult task of serving your country in any sense, I mean, it could be taxing even if you're not in a combatant role.

00:45:43.000 Sure.

00:45:44.000 Physically, mentally, psychologically.

00:45:46.000 I agree.

00:45:47.000 And so, I guess really, um... That's why we shouldn't individualize it.

00:45:53.000 We should standardize it.

00:45:54.000 Yeah.

00:45:55.000 I can see, to me, I think it should really be, um... I guess, gosh... It's cool to be on the spot like this because now I really get to, like, think about it.

00:46:05.000 Yeah.

00:46:06.000 Um... I think, well...

00:46:11.000 I guess there are a lot of people who can't really serve in a combatant role.

00:46:15.000 Sure.

00:46:16.000 A lot of men.

00:46:21.000 Yeah, there are men who are disabled.

00:46:24.000 There are a lot of different people who can't fight for a lot of different reasons.

00:46:28.000 But I think instead of, at least for me personally, instead of worrying about the kind of people we put in, we can focus on how we can make them the best, even if that might mean We're not barring them on a personal level, though.

00:46:44.000 We know you're interested in this, but this might be a better fit.

00:46:46.000 And that doesn't necessarily mean that we can bar them in a combatant sense.

00:46:50.000 But if we see...

00:46:51.000 We're not barring them on a personal level, though.

00:46:53.000 The requirements, if they don't meet them, bar them.

00:46:56.000 Yeah.

00:46:57.000 Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, because if you can't throw a grenade...

00:47:02.000 Or you can't carry a certain load at the same amount of distance and the same amount of

00:47:06.000 time without, unfortunately, a little bone fracture.

00:47:11.000 Or you can't do a leg tuck, so we go to a plank.

00:47:15.000 No one's discriminating against them if the test is standardized.

00:47:18.000 That's why they have to be standardized.

00:47:20.000 And by the way, it is at the end of training.

00:47:22.000 So we do training, we train them, and then you have tests to see if they're fit.

00:47:26.000 So, even with training, a lot of women are still not fit, and so we keep lowering those standards. 1.00

00:47:30.000 So, they're not being disqualified personally.

00:47:33.000 The test is disqualifying.

00:47:35.000 For the same reason that a man in a wheelchair.

00:47:36.000 It doesn't mean that you're being ableist if you say, well, you probably shouldn't be out in the front lines.

00:47:40.000 Why? 0.92

00:47:41.000 Because you'll be killed. 1.00

00:47:42.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:47:43.000 I don't want him killed.

00:47:43.000 Yeah.

00:47:45.000 I think that to eliminate the possibility of combatant alone, like just as a baseline, I think could take away opportunity for growth.

00:47:55.000 Because someone could come in maybe not being able to lift, but over time they could develop that ability.

00:48:02.000 You know, obviously if you can't lift... How about once they develop that ability, and they pass the test, they can go in?

00:48:08.000 They shouldn't be learning on the job.

00:48:10.000 There's nothing stopping any woman right now from training up to meet basic requirements. 1.00

00:48:14.000 to train in and out of that setting equally, then I believe the test, you know...

00:48:21.000 There's nothing stopping any woman right now from training up to meet basic requirements. 1.00

00:48:25.000 You can do your push-ups, you can do your sit-ups, you can go do your jog with a backpack,

00:48:29.000 you could do your pull-ups on a tree in a park.

00:48:32.000 There's nothing stopping.

00:48:33.000 It's not a lack of resources.

00:48:35.000 It's a biological ceiling.

00:48:36.000 If they can do it, they can do it.

00:48:37.000 If they can do it.

00:48:39.000 I agree.

00:48:39.000 The vast majority of women can't, so we keep lowering the standards, and that's my issue.

00:48:43.000 And certainly with the police force.

00:48:44.000 You know, I think that when we're dealing with people complaining about, in some cases, very justified police brutality, And the same reason I support women carrying firearms. 0.75

00:48:53.000 Because a firearm makes a woman, like you just said, you're small. 1.00

00:48:57.000 You're as strong as a man if you know how to operate a firearm.

00:48:59.000 I believe I'm as strong as a man in a different capacity.

00:49:02.000 No, I'm talking about in a physical altercation.

00:49:04.000 There's no way that a man will not overpower you, for example.

00:49:07.000 It's an average-sized man.

00:49:08.000 But you have a firearm, it's called the great equalizer for a reason, right?

00:49:11.000 In that same capacity, right?

00:49:12.000 In other words, you can use your firearm.

00:49:14.000 If a woman is physically less capable, as a cop, she has to use her firearm. 1.00

00:49:21.000 That will increase the likelihood of police brutality, let alone, of course, the incidents of violent attacks against women in the police force and their brothers in arms, and it's much higher.

00:49:29.000 So for the same reason that I like women civilians to be able to carry firearms, the flip side of that coin is I want female police officers to not have to use their firearms. 0.99

00:49:38.000 Unfortunately, it's a biological reality that they do.

00:49:40.000 If they're dealing with a guy my size on PCP, you're going to need to use a gun.

00:49:44.000 And I don't want to see women getting killed and getting beaten up out there. 1.00

00:49:47.000 Yeah.

00:49:48.000 So, um, well, I appreciate you sitting down.

00:49:50.000 It was, it was, uh... Jay.

00:49:52.000 Jay!

00:49:52.000 That's right, Jay.

00:49:53.000 It was nice talking with you.

00:49:54.000 I was like, it's not Joe, Jay.

00:49:55.000 Thank you, Jay.

00:49:56.000 I really appreciate you taking the time.

00:49:57.000 And, uh, maybe we'll be back here sometime and you can let me know what you...

00:49:57.000 Thank you.

00:50:00.000 I'm happy to learn.

00:50:02.000 Get your pilot's license, too.

00:50:03.000 There's not a lot of pilots.

00:50:04.000 There's a real opening right now.

00:50:05.000 Oh, yeah.

00:50:06.000 No, there really isn't.

00:50:07.000 It's a really good field to go into.

00:50:08.000 There's a serious lack of pilots, so private planes.

00:50:12.000 They pay well.

00:50:12.000 I know a guy, a wealthy guy, who has a plane.

00:50:14.000 He's like, yeah, there are not enough pilots out there.

00:50:16.000 And actually, women make great pilots. 1.00

00:50:19.000 I actually had this ready, but we didn't disagree that women in the Air Force actually do incredibly well. 1.00

00:50:24.000 Because of how they sustain G-forces sometimes.

00:50:27.000 Just consider it.

00:50:28.000 I'm just saying, it's an option.

00:50:29.000 If you like flying, it's a potential career.

00:50:31.000 Thank you so much.

00:50:32.000 Thank you, Jay.

00:50:32.000 Appreciate it.

00:50:34.000 Now, I don't want to speak out of turn.

00:50:35.000 I think that might have been a change my mind first, in that Jay didn't really seem to have any opinions, at least strong opinions, one way or the other, but was willing to sit down, and I appreciate her willingness to do so, which, by the way, is why we always make all of the references available at loudearthcrider.com.

00:50:53.000 You can click the link in the description to peruse at will and learn more on this topic.

00:50:57.000 Also, if you enjoy this series and want them to continue, please consider commenting below which topic you'd like to see next on Change My Mind.

00:51:04.000 And hit that like button so that YouTube can throttle this anyway. 0.91

00:51:07.000 Okay, next up we have... Oh, Anaya.

00:51:10.000 Anaya or Anai?

00:51:12.000 Anaya, okay.

00:51:12.000 Anaya.

00:51:13.000 I apologize if I get your name wrong because I'm horrible with names.

00:51:16.000 You're fine.

00:51:16.000 But I'll never forget your face.

00:51:17.000 I have a weird facial recognition software.

00:51:19.000 I get it.

00:51:20.000 I do the same.

00:51:20.000 You do it the same way?

00:51:21.000 You remember faces but the name, like, I have to... So in my mind I'll go Anihilator, so that then I'll remember your name, but I might accidentally say Anihilator.

00:51:21.000 Yeah.

00:51:29.000 I get it.

00:51:30.000 It's okay.

00:51:33.000 Grab some water here.

00:51:34.000 And I'm Steven.

00:51:35.000 Nice to meet you.

00:51:36.000 I like your shirt, by the way.

00:51:37.000 Are you a big ACDC fan?

00:51:37.000 Thank you!

00:51:39.000 I just like the shirt.

00:51:40.000 Oh, no!

00:51:41.000 I've heard Back in Black a few times because of movies.

00:51:44.000 I'm very much like a Marvel type person.

00:51:48.000 But what if you wear that shirt and you find out that they're like a white supremacist metal band, like the Acid Rock band?

00:51:55.000 My dad says the same thing.

00:51:55.000 I don't know. I mean, this is where you kind of like you do your history.

00:51:55.000 I get it.

00:51:59.000 Right, but it sounds like you haven't done on the ACDC.

00:52:03.000 They're not by the way.

00:52:03.000 They seem like decent people. I'm just saying. I get it. It's always a risk. My dad says the same thing.

00:52:07.000 He's like, you need to research and I'm like, sometimes okay. I did it once when I was a kid.

00:52:11.000 I got a Grateful Dead shirt at a thrift store.

00:52:14.000 And I liked it because it had Mr. Senator, the skeleton with the top hat.

00:52:17.000 And then someone was like, hey, Grateful Dead.

00:52:19.000 I was like, who's Grateful Dead? 0.99

00:52:20.000 And I went to listen to them, and they sucked. 0.96

00:52:22.000 And I was like, ugh, I can't believe I wore that shirt out in public. 0.93

00:52:26.000 So, Anai, I don't know how familiar you are, if at all, with the Change My Mind segment.

00:52:29.000 It's basically designed to hopefully rationalize our positions on seemingly controversial topics.

00:52:34.000 They've been actually pretty friendly today, which is a good thing.

00:52:38.000 I'm really happy about that.

00:52:39.000 So today, let me kind of state my position.

00:52:43.000 I do not believe that women should be in combat roles, meaning roles where they would encounter physical violence, enlisted forces, infantry, or in the police force where they would have to be subduing violent perpetrators.

00:52:56.000 Because it not only is less safe for them, it's less safe for their brothers in arms, and it's less safe for us as a country, the citizens they're sworn to protect.

00:53:04.000 I specifically say women because I support a physical meritocracy, but we have only lowered

00:53:09.000 the standards to allow more women into the military and police force.

00:53:14.000 So that's why I have a problem specifically with women in combat roles who can meet lower 1.00

00:53:18.000 physical requirements and still get the same job.

00:53:21.000 If you disagree with that or you think I missed something, I'd love to hear you.

00:53:24.000 I would deal with me.

00:53:25.000 I would just hold it just because we've had people try and steal them.

00:53:28.000 Oh.

00:53:30.000 I would, but I believe that I strongly disagree just based off my family's experience.

00:53:37.000 I have multiple cousins, my grandparents were in the military, so I have both men and women

00:53:42.000 in my family in the military.

00:53:45.000 I don't think that certain regulations or rules that they've changed now are in benefit

00:53:52.000 of women or men.

00:53:54.000 I don't think that I think it's an impediment of the troops together as a whole because you think of them as Our military is as one that they don't see. 0.97

00:54:04.000 Oh, you're black. 1.00

00:54:05.000 You're white or you're a woman or a man when it comes down to combat I Well, one thing that my grandfather has told me when he was in combat was, he's like, I didn't care who it was.

00:54:17.000 I don't care.

00:54:17.000 Right.

00:54:18.000 It'd be like, you're my brother, you're my sister, I'm gonna save you and make sure you're okay.

00:54:22.000 Regardless of man, woman, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, whatever.

00:54:22.000 Right.

00:54:26.000 This was your grandfather?

00:54:27.000 Well, I think your grandfather said that because your grandfather sounds like a very decent man.

00:54:27.000 Yes.

00:54:32.000 Well, unfortunately he has passed away.

00:54:34.000 But it sounds like a good man.

00:54:36.000 Here's the issue.

00:54:37.000 Like you said, it doesn't see color.

00:54:39.000 And as a matter of fact, it's true, it's actually kind of a beautiful thing.

00:54:42.000 In the military, it's very mixed as far as demographics.

00:54:44.000 A lot of black Americans, a lot of Hispanic Americans.

00:54:49.000 However, it's not blind when it applies to women. 1.00

00:54:52.000 They can meet far lower PT requirements.

00:54:55.000 Do you think so?

00:54:56.000 No, it's absolutely true.

00:54:57.000 So they created separate standards for men and women starting in the 70s.

00:55:01.000 And then recently the Army tried to create a gender neutral test.

00:55:04.000 Less than 10% of men failed.

00:55:05.000 65% of women failed.

00:55:06.000 For example, in the Marines, a woman can do half as many pull-ups as a man and get a perfect 1.00

00:55:11.000 score.

00:55:12.000 We've eliminated push-ups.

00:55:13.000 We've eliminated pull-ups.

00:55:14.000 We've eliminated the leg tuck.

00:55:16.000 We've now moved to the plank because women were not passive. 1.00

00:55:20.000 If we're talking about them all as one, my issue is that it's not blind.

00:55:25.000 It is creating a separate, lower standard for women to join the same combat roles. 0.99

00:55:31.000 How does that make those out there in the front lines safer?

00:55:34.000 To have someone who's less qualified, less capable, but because they're a woman they get the same spot. 0.99

00:55:39.000 Well, I mean, I think it also kind of depends on, like, when you come in.

00:55:44.000 Like, there's, you have to think about it, like, A, there's a lot of high schools that go straight into the military because that's their one option, or that's the option that they choose.

00:55:51.000 So, just as any corporate job would be, like, you have your entry level, No, she absolutely didn't.

00:55:58.000 It's the policy.

00:55:59.000 now for like my cousin she went in the military she did her training and 1.00

00:56:03.000 everything like that and she's moved up the ranks. And she had to meet a far lower

00:56:07.000 physical requirement than a man? I don't I don't think so I mean I would have to

00:56:11.000 call her and ask her but I don't believe so. It's the policy of... is she in the army? No.

00:56:15.000 Which branch is she in?

00:56:16.000 Air Force.

00:56:17.000 Air Force.

00:56:17.000 Yeah, it's the policy of Army, Air Force, Marines.

00:56:19.000 They have lower physical standards.

00:56:20.000 I won't have to ask her, but I don't think so.

00:56:22.000 Let's assume that what I'm saying is not untrue.

00:56:24.000 Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that, for example, women can meet a much lower physical requirement, and not only physical, but certain mental requirements, reflex requirements, that women can achieve a far lower score, or they even have to meet far lower physical standards.

00:56:39.000 Let's say that's the case.

00:56:41.000 I'm telling you, I'm giving you my word, it is the case with the Marines, it is the case with the Army, it is the case with municipal police forces.

00:56:46.000 So let's assume that's true.

00:56:47.000 That, for example, a man has to do, let's just say, ten pull-ups and a woman can do five or none and achieve the same score. 0.98

00:56:55.000 What are your thoughts?

00:56:56.000 Do you think that's right?

00:56:57.000 I don't think, as far as you debating the certain requirements, I don't think that, A, that's fair.

00:57:04.000 I think that, I feel like, in my mind, I feel like there should be a basis for everybody.

00:57:09.000 Same standard!

00:57:09.000 Same standard?

00:57:10.000 I agree.

00:57:11.000 Rather, it's, you do 20 push-ups, if you meet the 20, then hey, you're good.

00:57:16.000 But, I don't think that, I don't think it's fair to men or women, yes. 1.00

00:57:16.000 I agree. 1.00

00:57:20.000 Now, to put, say, because there are some women who can do 25 push-ups, burpees, and all these types of things, and complete the whole nine yards. 1.00

00:57:29.000 Very, very few, that's why we lowered the standards for them.

00:57:33.000 This is absolutely true.

00:57:34.000 I don't think so.

00:57:35.000 What you feel on this, it is absolutely true.

00:57:38.000 The military requirements are far, far lower for women. 0.95

00:57:41.000 For me, I would have to see the statistics, the writing, every policy that there is to actually understand and see what you're saying.

00:57:49.000 But if it is true, you would disagree with it?

00:57:52.000 Yeah!

00:57:53.000 I would disagree that there shouldn't be a difference.

00:57:57.000 There should be a plain board for everyone to meet the requirements regardless.

00:58:01.000 I agree.

00:58:02.000 But as far as the whole thing of like mental stability and all this type of stuff, I think that's attacking women as just a gender's character. 0.99

00:58:11.000 Because, yes.

00:58:14.000 I'm not telling you the character.

00:58:15.000 I mean, no, but it's just like, when I hear people say, well, I don't believe women should be in the military, 0.79

00:58:21.000 or I don't believe women should be in combat, I've always heard that, oh, they're emotional, 1.00

00:58:26.000 or there's certain biological factors, like, oh, well, they get pregnant. 0.89

00:58:31.000 Well, those are true.

00:58:32.000 Those are true, but I'm like, just.

00:58:35.000 I mean, but just as men are, like, men are emotional.

00:58:38.000 Men have bad days.

00:58:40.000 The fact that they can't get pregnant because, like, they can also get injured.

00:58:44.000 So, I'm like, for certain things, like... Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because women, the bone fracture rate, far, far higher for women when they're out there in the field.

00:58:52.000 Their disability discharge rate is up in the 60-something percent higher than men.

00:58:57.000 And I think the percentage of men from the military discharge who get PTSD, it's in the single digits.

00:59:01.000 For women, it's over 10. 1.00

00:59:03.000 It's not an attack on their character.

00:59:04.000 These are statistical realities.

00:59:05.000 But also it's kind of the fact of not just the combat issue, but it's also the fact of other men in the military taking a stance against that woman.

00:59:16.000 I don't think that's what it is.

00:59:17.000 I think men are animals and women need to deal with being animals. 1.00

00:59:20.000 If they're in a foxhole with animals, they've got to be an animal.

00:59:22.000 I think that's where it's A, we're humans.

00:59:29.000 That's one.

00:59:30.000 We're humans.

00:59:30.000 Don't compare anybody to an animal.

00:59:32.000 I'm saying in wartime, you need to be a beast.

00:59:35.000 I get it, but I'm just saying, like, I don't think that's a correct way to describe or build a conversation of, well, this is a... War is war.

00:59:45.000 War is a mental game, physiological game of combat strategies, all that.

00:59:51.000 So you have to be smart, you have to think quick, and I get it, yes, there's a physical factor.

00:59:56.000 Just as some men cannot handle it.

00:59:58.000 I agree.

00:59:59.000 Just as there are some women who cannot handle it. 1.00

01:00:02.000 There are women who can handle it and there are men who can handle it. 1.00

01:00:04.000 There are very few women who can. 1.00

01:00:06.000 A lot of men can.

01:00:07.000 So very few women who can, but a lot of men can.

01:00:10.000 What statistic or what percentage of women who cannot handle the military? 1.00

01:00:15.000 We have such little data on, for example, the standards in the Army where you had to do a certain amount of pull-ups, a certain amount of push-ups, a certain amount of sit-ups.

01:00:22.000 You had to do your run, depending on the year, how many miles.

01:00:25.000 You had to meet a certain time.

01:00:28.000 Single-digit percentage of women who could make it.

01:00:31.000 What is that number, though?

01:00:32.000 So the number was between 1 and 5.

01:00:34.000 Okay.

01:00:35.000 But it's a really small sample pool because to get women in combat roles, it only started when they immediately lowered the PT requirements. 1.00

01:00:42.000 So we lowered them to the point where, okay, no more push-ups.

01:00:45.000 For example, in the Army, no more pull-ups at all.

01:00:48.000 You could do a leg tuck.

01:00:49.000 Too many women failed that. 1.00

01:00:50.000 So they could do a plank.

01:00:52.000 In the Marines, women can do half as many pull-ups, achieve a perfect score. 1.00

01:00:55.000 And then what happened is a lot of women were complaining because they felt singled out.

01:00:59.000 Because they had a standard for men and they had a standard for women, women were still failing. 1.00

01:01:02.000 So they created a gender-neutral test that was the same test for men and women, kind of between the two standards, which I disagree with.

01:01:08.000 I think it should be the higher standard.

01:01:10.000 Less than 10% of men failed, 65% of women failed.

01:01:15.000 So 55-65% failed a gender neutral test designed to accommodate women.

01:01:19.000 There is no way to lower the standards anymore and still have women in physical combat roles. 1.00

01:01:25.000 We've lowered the standards of physical combat readiness to a degree that frankly is embarrassing to accommodate women and they still, the majority of them still fail. 1.00

01:01:33.000 And assuming that I'm not lying, Right?

01:01:36.000 And I would encourage you to go do the research on the PT requirements.

01:01:38.000 Sounds to me like you and I agree.

01:01:40.000 Sounds to me like you and I agree there should be one standard.

01:01:42.000 It should be a stringent standard.

01:01:43.000 Yeah.

01:01:44.000 Right?

01:01:44.000 Because they're going out to war.

01:01:46.000 And if you're a man...

01:01:47.000 And you fail, you don't make it.

01:01:49.000 And if you're a woman and you fail, you don't make it. 0.63

01:01:50.000 Would we both agree on that?

01:01:51.000 Yeah.

01:01:52.000 I mean, yeah.

01:01:52.000 Okay, that's all I'm saying.

01:01:53.000 I just think that... But that's not the law.

01:01:55.000 We have a separate standard for women, and it's much, much lower, which I would argue is sexist. 0.81

01:02:00.000 So we both agree.

01:02:01.000 The only issue is I think you're not fully familiar with the new military policy.

01:02:05.000 You disagree with military policy, and so do I. I think we would be in the same boat saying, well, why are we having separate standards?

01:02:11.000 I just think it's where you...

01:02:13.000 Because it's a different standard for women. 1.00

01:02:16.000 Lower standards?

01:02:16.000 But my thing is like this, it's a someone's dream to serve their country rather, but let's

01:02:22.000 not just talk about the military.

01:02:23.000 Let's talk about the police force.

01:02:24.000 Sure.

01:02:25.000 There are women, there are a lot, especially in Dallas, Denton County, there are a lot 1.00

01:02:29.000 of women in the police force.

01:02:31.000 Sure.

01:02:32.000 That have made it through, become chief, has made it.

01:02:36.000 Lower standards?

01:02:37.000 I don't think so.

01:02:38.000 Yes.

01:02:39.000 Because, just because.

01:02:40.000 But if they are assuming, and you can say you don't think so, but respectfully, if it

01:02:43.000 is the fact, and you're looking and going, hey there's a male police officer and there's

01:02:47.000 a female police officer, but she only has to be half as capable, that's a problem. 1.00

01:02:51.000 Thank you.

01:02:53.000 It's not an accomplishment.

01:02:54.000 I don't care if it's her dream.

01:02:55.000 She's going to run into a guy my size on PCP.

01:02:59.000 But she'll get hurt.

01:02:59.000 And statistically, she is more likely to get hurt.

01:03:01.000 That's my issue.

01:03:03.000 And the guy next door is more likely to be hurt.

01:03:05.000 I don't think, this is my thing, I don't think that it should be someone else.

01:03:09.000 Now if the government makes a ruling saying whatever, that's fine.

01:03:13.000 But I don't think as people in a society where our police force or our military is being questioned, rather they're men or women, I think that you should stand by that person.

01:03:25.000 Be like, if a woman in the military or the police force is there and you see something going on, okay, that's their job, for one.

01:03:35.000 That's their job.

01:03:36.000 They get paid to do that.

01:03:37.000 So it's not, I don't think that it's your, you have the right to think whatever you want, but I don't think you should be able to really question, rather that person's doing their job capable, when you haven't put yourself on that line or have not That doesn't matter.

01:03:56.000 Objectively, they're not as qualified.

01:03:58.000 That's not me calling their character into question.

01:04:00.000 I don't think you're right.

01:04:01.000 But you just agreed with me that we should have the same standard.

01:04:03.000 I believe that with military, yes.

01:04:06.000 The police force, we should have a lower standard for women? 1.00

01:04:08.000 There is no lower standard.

01:04:10.000 There is.

01:04:10.000 We're not going to have a conversation if you just say reality isn't reality.

01:04:13.000 That's reality.

01:04:14.000 Then show me the statistics.

01:04:15.000 That's my thing.

01:04:17.000 I'm not going to believe a single word you're saying until I see the paper or I see the statistics in front of my face.

01:04:24.000 Okay.

01:04:27.000 Alright.

01:04:27.000 And we have them, the third party references, but these are all linking.

01:04:29.000 You can see kind of where they're linking to as far as studies.

01:04:33.000 Alright, so the Army scrapped the gender neutral test due to women failing at six times higher rate than men.

01:04:38.000 You can find this at US News and Committee later, you can find the studies.

01:04:41.000 The Army eliminated pull-ups in 1980, sit-ups in 2020, push-ups in 2020.

01:04:46.000 Females can do half as many pull-ups to get a perfect score in the military. 1.00

01:04:49.000 Integrated units.

01:04:51.000 All male units demonstrated higher performance levels on 93 of 134 compared to gender integrated units.

01:04:57.000 I actually need to correct myself because earlier I think I said four events.

01:05:03.000 I was overly generous.

01:05:05.000 It's tough with police, unlike the military, with police forces because it's more municipal.

01:05:10.000 So they have different databases.

01:05:11.000 I get that.

01:05:12.000 give me some grace for that. Increasing the number of female officers by one 1.00

01:05:15.000 percentage point increases the number of assaults on police by 15 to 19 percent.

01:05:21.000 So this is what we're coming down to.

01:05:23.000 These numbers are irrefutable.

01:05:24.000 We have the physical standard numbers.

01:05:26.000 We also have the bone mineral density numbers.

01:05:28.000 We have the fact that women, unfortunately, suffer bone fractures at a much higher rate in the military. 0.98

01:05:34.000 And that women, and also their brother in arms, the men near them, are more likely to be the victim of violent attack.

01:05:38.000 Okay.

01:05:40.000 And a big part of that is because criminals know, unfortunately, they can overpower women because male criminals are often stronger than women. 0.92

01:05:47.000 Especially when you add to the component illegal stimulants.

01:05:51.000 And that leaves everyone less safe.

01:05:53.000 So these are the stats and they will be made publicly available.

01:05:57.000 Assuming that I am not lying and that we have a double standard and one that is incredibly low for women to meet.

01:06:02.000 Assuming that this is true.

01:06:04.000 You now have the stats in front of your face.

01:06:06.000 We agreed before that it should be one standard, and you either meet it or you don't.

01:06:11.000 Do we still both agree on that?

01:06:14.000 Okay.

01:06:14.000 Yes.

01:06:14.000 Then that's what I want to see legislatively, because right now it's not.

01:06:19.000 Right now there's a double standard, one for men, one for women.

01:06:23.000 And I think, I don't know if you've ever competed in athletics at all?

01:06:26.000 What sports did you compete in?

01:06:26.000 Yes.

01:06:27.000 Volleyball and soccer.

01:06:29.000 No.

01:06:29.000 Did you have knee surgeries?

01:06:30.000 Oh, good.

01:06:30.000 You're lucky.

01:06:31.000 Every girl I know who did volleyball had horrible knee surgeries. 1.00

01:06:34.000 It's tough on the body.

01:06:35.000 It's an incredibly difficult sport.

01:06:39.000 When we look, for example, at sports, obviously there's a difference between men and women.

01:06:43.000 Would we agree there's a reason that they're separated?

01:06:47.000 I mean, I've competed in co-ed and I've competed in just female sports and honestly the co-ed one, for me, A, was more fun.

01:06:56.000 B, it was, I feel like with sports it's different because, at least with soccer, for example, women are very more competitive.

01:07:09.000 At least from when I played.

01:07:10.000 And it's very, very much, just like football for men, soccer is very much a contact sport for females.

01:07:17.000 And it's very rough playing out there.

01:07:20.000 The women's national team, they lose to high school boys every year.

01:07:24.000 Like the U.S. 0.68

01:07:25.000 national team of soccer?

01:07:26.000 Yes.

01:07:26.000 To high school boys.

01:07:28.000 The one that got a world championship before the men?

01:07:31.000 Yes.

01:07:32.000 They lose to high school boys.

01:07:34.000 I haven't seen it.

01:07:35.000 Now take that and add guns and perps on PCP.

01:07:39.000 If you show it to me, then I'll see it.

01:07:40.000 Oh sure, just search Women's National Soccer Team. 1.00

01:07:45.000 If you bring it up on your phone.

01:07:46.000 I don't have my phone on me.

01:07:47.000 Okay, I'm sure I can bring it up.

01:07:49.000 Women's National Soccer Team.

01:07:52.000 It's just, and I appreciate you asking, I'm glad that you're actually questioning it, but I don't know if I have good reception here.

01:07:57.000 So look, you can see me typing this in.

01:07:59.000 Yes.

01:08:02.000 I'll just type in soccer team.

01:08:05.000 Soccer team high school boys.

01:08:11.000 Okay?

01:08:12.000 If we have reception here.

01:08:14.000 FC Dallas under 15 boys squad, this is from CBS Sports, beat the US women's national team.

01:08:22.000 And this is not a singular event.

01:08:24.000 It occurs all the time.

01:08:25.000 Now, they still are impressive for women. 1.00

01:08:30.000 But they're not men.

01:08:31.000 They're not even high school boys.

01:08:33.000 Take that, add the consequences of death, or subduing a man here, for example, in an area of Dallas, you know, late at night.

01:08:41.000 That's catastrophic for women. 1.00

01:08:42.000 I don't think that's progress.

01:08:44.000 And I think we agree, I just want the policy to reflect that.

01:08:47.000 We should have standards that are difficult, right, that are certainly high if we're talking about people in physical roles that require physically extraordinary capabilities, whether you're a man or a woman.

01:08:59.000 You pass it.

01:09:00.000 Or you don't.

01:09:01.000 And then we would look at the real world data and see how it plays out out there in the field.

01:09:04.000 That is all I'm asking.

01:09:06.000 Right now we are doing the opposite of that as a matter of policy.

01:09:10.000 And that leads to, unfortunately, women in compromised situations and victims of violence. 1.00

01:09:15.000 So, I guess my question is, in this argument, because I've heard, not just you, and I'm not, what I'm trying, I'm not trying to just base your argument off other arguments that I've heard from other people.

01:09:26.000 But, when I hear some of these other arguments, it's, well, it's in the betterment of women, or in a kind of a sexist role of women shouldn't No, I don't feel they do.

01:09:26.000 No, no, I understand.

01:09:38.000 No, we can't disagree.

01:09:39.000 Just like we can't disagree that 15-year-old boys beat the women's national team.

01:09:45.000 There's no disagreement.

01:09:47.000 It's the truth.

01:09:48.000 point of this? No, I don't feel they do. We could disagree or agree on that one. No, we

01:09:53.000 can't disagree. Just like we can't disagree that 15-year-old boys beat the

01:09:56.000 women's national team. There's no disagreement. It's the truth. I don't...

01:09:58.000 Anyway. Well, you told me you didn't think it was true.

01:10:02.000 Okay. Are you gonna let me finish?

01:10:05.000 Well, I know, but I'm saying there's disagreeing and there's truth, right?

01:10:07.000 We need to agree on objective truth.

01:10:09.000 I'll let you speak.

01:10:12.000 You showed me the statistics.

01:10:13.000 You showed me the soccer.

01:10:16.000 It's on the news.

01:10:17.000 It's on public information where I can go look it up and go see.

01:10:21.000 I'm not disagreeing that.

01:10:24.000 But besides the point of those statistics, is it just the biological Just the biological anatomy of women that you believe that should not be in combat.

01:10:37.000 Rather it's, like you said, the bone density.

01:10:40.000 They're more, you said something?

01:10:42.000 Strength, bone density, endurance, anaerobic capacity, ability to perform reflexively under stress.

01:10:48.000 Any physical metric that you can use to apply to the most effective fighting force.

01:10:52.000 The vast majority of women fail miserably in comparison to men. 1.00

01:10:55.000 And what does that compare to other countries?

01:10:59.000 I haven't looked up all of the other countries, but if you believe that, for example, a Lithuanian woman is much stronger than an American woman and the men are weaker and that differential is closed, I just, I would be very hard-pressed to believe it.

01:11:11.000 No, because I'm saying, like, you have the statistics for our military.

01:11:15.000 Have you done your research on our military versus other military, either women or men?

01:11:22.000 Well, it's a very large sample size, so why would that change anything?

01:11:24.000 And as it relates to our military, I think the stats are enough.

01:11:27.000 Reality is enough.

01:11:28.000 I'm saying, like, comparative to England's military, where they have women in combat, too. 0.94

01:11:34.000 I'm guessing what I'm saying is, where does that stand?

01:11:38.000 It's the same rule.

01:11:39.000 I would say you still need to have the same standards.

01:11:40.000 No, I'm not saying different standards.

01:11:43.000 I'm saying, like, statistically, where are they at?

01:11:46.000 When you do your research and you comparatively compare it to others, that's where I'm questioning.

01:11:52.000 Yeah, I would imagine that they also have lower their physical standards.

01:11:52.000 That's where my question is.

01:11:55.000 They either have a lower standard for women, or they've created a gender-neutral test so women can pass, and I would be willing to bet my life that far fewer women pass than men on standards of physical rigor across the world. 0.78

01:12:05.000 Well, maybe you should do your research and compare it to the United States.

01:12:07.000 That's my only thing is, like, when people give these statistics... Well, because I'm dealing with American policy. 0.91

01:12:11.000 I know, but I'm... And we agree on the American policy being silly. 0.92

01:12:14.000 Yes. 0.96

01:12:14.000 Hmm. 0.96

01:12:16.000 Having a lower standard for women is wrong. 0.99

01:12:18.000 I said there should be a one standard.

01:12:20.000 Right.

01:12:21.000 We agree on that.

01:12:22.000 I don't think it's silly.

01:12:23.000 Now, yes, I think there should be reform.

01:12:26.000 Yes.

01:12:27.000 But rather that reform comes in the next five years or so.

01:12:30.000 We don't know.

01:12:31.000 Statistically, what you've shown me, it looks like, yes, we need to reform sooner than later.

01:12:36.000 But that's not up.

01:12:37.000 That's not up to us.

01:12:39.000 Yes, it is.

01:12:40.000 It's exactly up to us.

01:12:42.000 It's exactly up to us.

01:12:42.000 That's my point.

01:12:43.000 It's up to you.

01:12:44.000 You don't have to get close.

01:12:46.000 It's up to both of us.

01:12:47.000 Okay.

01:12:48.000 You're an American citizen.

01:12:49.000 Yeah.

01:12:49.000 You can vote.

01:12:51.000 I can vote.

01:12:54.000 Right?

01:12:55.000 The policy right now is lower standards for women because the government believes that women are so incapable, they need to have such low physical standards applied. 0.83

01:13:03.000 So if you disagree with that, then I think it is up to us.

01:13:05.000 I mean, like, yes, but is it up to enforce it?

01:13:09.000 That's up to the top people.

01:13:12.000 That's them.

01:13:13.000 And rather they see the statistics or not and decide to put that on the ballot, this, whatever.

01:13:18.000 They won't unless they have to answer to you.

01:13:20.000 And me.

01:13:20.000 That's why I'm doing this.

01:13:22.000 I don't believe that we should just defer to the elites in power.

01:13:24.000 I don't know if you know, but the elites in power have done horrible things.

01:13:27.000 They've been racist.

01:13:29.000 They actually have been sexist.

01:13:30.000 I would argue their military centers now are sexist.

01:13:32.000 It only changes from the ground up.

01:13:34.000 We have to hold them accountable.

01:13:36.000 They're not going to be held accountable until people like you and myself, if we agree on something, make sure that it's heard.

01:13:42.000 And they have to listen.

01:13:43.000 It is up to us.

01:13:45.000 I think that's important because a lot of students here seem to have a disconnect that, no, those are those people in power.

01:13:50.000 You also have to think, some of us just came from high school.

01:13:54.000 And some of us are just now turned 18 where we can't vote.

01:13:58.000 So there is a disconnect.

01:14:00.000 And that's where a lot of things also is education-wise.

01:14:02.000 There's not a lot of education on policies, political things.

01:14:07.000 It's very apparent on campus.

01:14:11.000 It's there's a lot of things that just not this one subject that needs to be talked about.

01:14:16.000 I think there I think I believe that there's more important things than can women be in combat that we need to focus on like schooling like let's make sure like kids have meals let's make sure that kids are all getting the same education before we start talking about other things. 0.88

01:14:33.000 Well, I've done many of these, and we have done them on school choice, for example.

01:14:35.000 I'm a huge supporter of school choice and school vouchers.

01:14:38.000 We have done them on abortion. 0.96

01:14:40.000 We have done them on gender. 0.92

01:14:41.000 We've done them on a multitude of topics.

01:14:43.000 We have done them on gun rights. 0.90

01:14:44.000 This is just one today that is relevant.

01:14:45.000 I get it.

01:14:46.000 But I'm just saying, like, I just believe, like, I believe, like, the way that it's phrased, I think it could be phrased better, but I mean, it is what it is.

01:14:46.000 It's just one today.

01:14:57.000 But I, like we said, we can disagree on policies need to be across the board.

01:15:03.000 I think we agree.

01:15:04.000 Yes.

01:15:06.000 That's common ground there.

01:15:07.000 But yes, I believe that it should be across the board as far as the choice.

01:15:15.000 I don't think there's any choice.

01:15:18.000 It's blind.

01:15:18.000 The test is what it is.

01:15:19.000 But I'm saying, if women want to be in combat, that's their choice. 1.00

01:15:23.000 Not if they don't pass the test.

01:15:24.000 You can't maintain both of those positions.

01:15:25.000 You can't say there should be a standard, they have to pass it, and then say, or it's their choice, then why have a test?

01:15:30.000 You're saying if they pass the test.

01:15:31.000 Yes, that's what I meant.

01:15:33.000 If they pass the test, that's their choice.

01:15:34.000 Then it's their choice.

01:15:35.000 If they decide to, you know what, combat's not for me, whatever.

01:15:35.000 I agree.

01:15:38.000 Because there's so many men who do the same thing.

01:15:40.000 Yes.

01:15:41.000 So, I'm like... But if they pass the test.

01:15:43.000 If they don't, they don't have a choice.

01:15:43.000 Yes.

01:15:45.000 It's like, you're out.

01:15:46.000 But I'm like, there's so many different things in the military, whether you say Army, Marines, whatever.

01:15:51.000 There's so many different tests that they have to take.

01:15:54.000 And different roles, by the way.

01:15:56.000 To be clear, I am not saying that women should not be in the military, or in the police force.

01:16:01.000 I don't want them to be in a situation where they will encounter Physical violence if they're not physically capable.

01:16:06.000 Women can be detectives, they can be interrogators, they can be negotiators, they can do fantastic work with intel, they can be operating drones, they can be pilots. 1.00

01:16:13.000 I'm just talking about roles that have physical standards, or did, for a reason.

01:16:18.000 So do you think the same way when it comes to operating like a gun or any type of...

01:16:24.000 No, no, here's the thing.

01:16:25.000 I actually am a huge advocate of women carrying firearms. 0.98

01:16:28.000 I think that women should, because it's the one thing that actually makes you stronger than a man. 1.00

01:16:32.000 It's an equalizer.

01:16:33.000 If a man is attempting to rape a woman, sexually assault or overpower a woman, her best chance is to carry a firearm.

01:16:39.000 The flip side of that is why I want female police officers to have to meet the same standards as men, because if they're not physically capable, they have to go to their gun. 1.00

01:16:47.000 Right?

01:16:48.000 If it's a big, strong man on drugs, her only option is her gun.

01:16:51.000 For the same reason, I think it's good for you to have an unfair advantage in day-to-day life if someone breaks into your house.

01:16:56.000 Women should have guns. 1.00

01:16:57.000 Police officers need to be ultra-physically capable so that they don't have to use their guns, so that they can de-escalate, so we have less police brutality.

01:17:04.000 I want fewer police having to use their firearms or use their taser as possible.

01:17:08.000 But in the same case of when you say that Yes, like when you say police brutality, I see, as a black person, I see more men grabbing, white police officer men, grabbing their guns when it's in defense of a black person, whether it's a woman or a man.

01:17:26.000 Yeah, that's a topic for another day, but statistically, yeah, it's actually, when you're talking about armed white men, they're actually more likely to be shot by officers than black men.

01:17:35.000 Don't think so.

01:17:36.000 But that's a different thing.

01:17:37.000 One standard.

01:17:38.000 Yes, but either way I think we would both agree it would be one standard. It would be ideal that a police officer is

01:17:38.000 Yes.

01:17:44.000 Capable in de-escalation psychologically and physically so they can subdue someone without having to use a gun

01:17:50.000 I think for me my pain is regardless if it's If it's a police officer regardless of man or woman if I

01:17:58.000 see a badge if I see the uniform I'm gonna go to them for help

01:18:01.000 That's one thing.

01:18:02.000 I don't care if you're a man or a woman. 0.96

01:18:05.000 That's honestly one thing that I don't care about.

01:18:07.000 I don't care, not yet.

01:18:08.000 I would hope that their training has been enough to where they are capable, if I am getting attacked, that they can help me.

01:18:15.000 Fight off an attacker or whatever, but as far as that, I think right now, until the policies change, until we, like you said, everyone votes and makes their decision on where they stand.

01:18:26.000 Sure.

01:18:27.000 Until then, I feel like there should be one thing of, okay, just because she's a female does not mean that she cannot help me.

01:18:34.000 And I think that's where some... I've never said that.

01:18:36.000 No, not you, but I think some, I've heard that from some other guys or some other men who are like, well, she's a female officer.

01:18:44.000 I don't think they're saying she's a female and I'll leave you with this.

01:18:48.000 I don't think they're saying she's a female officer.

01:18:50.000 She can't help me.

01:18:50.000 She can't.

01:18:51.000 I think what people are saying is she's a female officer.

01:18:54.000 She did not have to meet the same fiscal requirements.

01:18:57.000 It's a roll of the dice.

01:18:58.000 I don't know how much she's going to be able to help me and that's based on a reality and I think that that is horrible because women will forever be held in doubt because of the diversity hire and the double standard. 0.99

01:19:08.000 For the same reason that affirmative action in college is a problem, because unfortunately people will go, does that person deserve to be here? 0.93

01:19:14.000 Or is it an affirmative action result?

01:19:15.000 And I think that that's the bigotry of low expectations.

01:19:20.000 And yeah, unfortunately it harms women and unfortunately in a lot of these situations they harm people of color. 0.79

01:19:25.000 And I think that the tests need to be blind.

01:19:28.000 We need to have a standardized test.

01:19:30.000 Regardless of race or gender.

01:19:31.000 If you pass, great.

01:19:32.000 And of course, I think we should respect everyone who's out there who's serving, who's doing their job honestly.

01:19:36.000 If they're a police officer, I wouldn't denigrate or disrespect them.

01:19:39.000 I agree with you on that.

01:19:41.000 Thank you so much, though.

01:19:42.000 And I do like the sweater.

01:19:42.000 I appreciate you sitting down.

01:19:44.000 Go listen, they have some great albums.

01:19:45.000 If you haven't listened to them, I think you might like them.

01:19:47.000 I have to do homework, so... Oh, I'm messing right now, but... But thank you very much.

01:19:51.000 Anaya.

01:19:53.000 Got it!

01:19:54.000 So, see, it's always hard to have a discussion when the opposing point of view insists that your research is simply made up, and it's why it's always valuable to have the references and make them available, which, by the way, you can go see for yourselves at loudmouthcrider.com.

01:20:06.000 Also, ladies, small bit of advice, take it or leave it, when your loving father suggests that you do something, like research your ACDC sweater, not a bad idea to listen to him.

01:20:16.000 Dads tend to know best, especially when it comes to music from their era.

01:20:20.000 Okay, let's bring this tugboat to shore and see if we can finish this on a high note.

01:20:24.000 Oh yeah, we have two lovely ladies here, Jewel and Caitlin. 1.00

01:20:28.000 I don't know how familiar you are at all with what we do with these segments.

01:20:30.000 These change my mind.

01:20:31.000 It's hopefully a way where people can kind of rationalize their positions on sometimes controversial topics.

01:20:37.000 Yeah, I don't believe that women Should be in combat roles and like you mentioned police officer roles if it's a role that includes violence or the possibility of being physically overpowered or enlisted forces roles. 0.96

01:20:49.000 Because of the fact that it makes not only women unsafe who are in the line of fire but also their brothers in arms less safe.

01:20:58.000 I think there are a multitude of ways that women can serve in the military and in the police force, but those that require extraordinary physical capabilities are not amongst them. 0.99

01:21:07.000 And if you disagree with that, I'd be more than happy to hear why and change my mind.

01:21:12.000 Well, I'm not really the type of person to be like, what you think is wrong and what I think is right.

01:21:16.000 I'm open to hearing other people's perspectives on things.

01:21:20.000 I'm not really like, No, you think, we don't think the same, you're wrong, you know?

01:21:24.000 So, what I'm like hearing from you is like, I'm not necessarily hearing like women are better, or women, men are better and women aren't, it's just like the physical attributes of what's different. 0.73

01:21:24.000 Oh, great. 0.73

01:21:36.000 Yes.

01:21:37.000 So, um, okay, you saying by like, they shouldn't be in physical roles, how do you think like that, do you think like, I don't know what I'm trying to say.

01:21:48.000 Do you think that women can, um, I don't know, work up to being physically capable? 1.00

01:21:56.000 Like...

01:21:57.000 So, yeah, and that's something I kind of expect people to bring up.

01:22:00.000 Statistically, very unlikely.

01:22:03.000 And that's the reason for this topic is, you know, we've created different tests since the 70s, you know, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, where we've reduced the physical requirements to try and accommodate women.

01:22:14.000 And they still fail at a rate that's significantly higher than men, several multiples higher than men.

01:22:18.000 I mean, they even just created a gender neutral test in the army that they now have to scrap

01:22:22.000 because less than 10% of men were failing, but 65% of women were failing.

01:22:26.000 And these are tests that no longer include pull-ups, push-ups.

01:22:28.000 And if you look at the results, once they get out into the field of battle, women get 1.00

01:22:33.000 hurt a lot more and members of their squad get hurt a lot more.

01:22:36.000 I mean, they suffer bone fracture rates at several times, you know, multiple rate.

01:22:41.000 They get disability discharges, 65% more than men.

01:22:45.000 In the police force, they're far more likely in their whole squad to be violently attacked if there's a woman there, and in large part it's because this is a role that requires physical capabilities.

01:22:54.000 So if we're saying, if women could meet those standards, yeah, my position, I would agree with you if it's, we raise it to the highest standards that we've had, keep those, and women who can meet those, sure.

01:23:05.000 I had a question and I forgot it.

01:23:06.000 I think it's inherently sexist to keep lowering the physical standards to try and accommodate women in combat

01:23:11.000 roles Yeah, even though they still keep failing and it ends up

01:23:14.000 putting them in harm's way Do you think that

01:23:21.000 I cut like what like what are you like? What's your goal like here?

01:23:28.000 What are you trying to accomplish here?

01:23:32.000 These Change My Minds started out actually just me kind of on the street with a sign.

01:23:37.000 And then we had a couple on campus.

01:23:39.000 And then it became very apparent that no one on campus was hearing these perspectives.

01:23:44.000 For example, we've done them on gender, we've done them on gun rights, we've done them on abortion.

01:23:48.000 So it's really just, hopefully, for the student body to no longer be a monolith and hear different perspectives.

01:23:53.000 Because this is a pretty important conversation.

01:23:55.000 I do agree.

01:23:56.000 I do agree that the body, like, was genetically not made for that kind of thing, you know?

01:24:02.000 Like, resulting back to, like, very old times, you know?

01:24:06.000 Women were never made to do that. 1.00

01:24:08.000 Like, the men would do that.

01:24:09.000 Or the men would go.

01:24:11.000 Well, I'm not saying that women have to... Just to be clear, I'm not saying women have to cook or clean. 0.99

01:24:17.000 There's no reason that a woman, for example, in the police can't be a detective, can't be a forensic investigator.

01:24:23.000 There's some data that suggests they might be better interrogators, actually.

01:24:27.000 So I have no problem with that.

01:24:28.000 I have a problem with putting women, and we are doing this, in combat roles where not only they are more likely to be hurt, but their brothers in arms are more likely to be hurt as a result of someone who's unqualified being put on the force.

01:24:40.000 So I'm not saying they should be at home cooking or cleaning.

01:24:42.000 There are many, many ways that women can serve in the military and the police force. 0.56

01:24:45.000 There's not.

01:24:48.000 So, like, is this topic coming from you from a place of, I think men are better and women are less inferior, or where is it coming from where you stand?

01:24:57.000 No, no.

01:24:58.000 Look, men are not superior to women and women are not superior to men.

01:25:03.000 We're different.

01:25:04.000 I don't know that we're doing any great service to young women by telling them that they can do anything a man can do.

01:25:09.000 They can't.

01:25:10.000 Just like we're telling young men that men can get pregnant too.

01:25:13.000 I don't believe they can.

01:25:14.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

01:25:15.000 Absolutely not.

01:25:16.000 But we've done that topic as well, and we've had people say that I'm transphobic for suggesting that.

01:25:21.000 And I think that there are rules in which, you know, women serve valuably, and they have in the military, and in the police force. 0.97

01:25:28.000 But I think this idea that everyone has to be equal on all fronts is, I really think it's harmful.

01:25:33.000 I honestly agree because like like recently like with the whole like like the gender topic and everything like there's been a lot of topic of some like feminist women like um being like like we scientifically don't necessarily need men anymore for what they add to like creating children and everything like that like it can genetically create like children for women and put them in their bellies and everything in a lab you know but then if you think about it and you look at the the bigger picture like Like... 1.00

01:26:05.000 In the trades field, most of the trades workers are men.

01:26:10.000 Yeah.

01:26:11.000 If you look at what they're doing in the oil field, welding, all types of construction work, all types of that.

01:26:18.000 Like, I'm not saying women can't do it. 0.99

01:26:20.000 Like, if you want to do it, you just have to work ten times harder.

01:26:23.000 But that's something if you want to do, you can do.

01:26:25.000 But if you look at it, like, most women wouldn't pick to do that.

01:26:30.000 And if you get rid of men, like, who would be doing that?

01:26:34.000 Who would make up, you know, 93% of all the workplace deaths?

01:26:36.000 Who would build the building behind us?

01:26:38.000 Who would fix, you know, like the World Trade Center?

01:26:43.000 When that happened, like, most of the firefighters and the police officers and everything were men.

01:26:48.000 Right.

01:26:49.000 Saving people's lives and everything like that.

01:26:52.000 Yeah.

01:26:53.000 I just feel like God made a man and a woman for one reason, you know?

01:26:58.000 Men are supposed to do this, women are meant to do this, and I do agree that men are more physically capable at the end of the day.

01:27:06.000 What do you think about, sounds like we found quite a bit of common ground, most people aren't aware, but what do you think about the fact that we've continually lowered physical requirements for the military

01:27:17.000 so that women can meet them?

01:27:18.000 I feel like it makes... I feel like putting armed men out there with a lower physical requirement,

01:27:24.000 it makes it easier for people to get in who may not be able to fight as well,

01:27:29.000 or be physically inclined enough to go out there and fight the war.

01:27:34.000 If they lower that standard, it should be set at a standard that all of them should be able to...

01:27:41.000 you know, just fit in that same category.

01:27:43.000 Whereas if they keep on lowering it, I mean, it just makes our men out there weaker and weaker.

01:27:48.000 Yeah.

01:27:49.000 I think that, like, changing the whole, like, requirements and everything like that, like, it's given people the mindset of, like, Like, I can do this now because, like, it's changed.

01:28:02.000 When, I feel like if they would've just left it alone and they would've left it at the same, like, you have to do this A, B, or C, or you can't get in, you know?

01:28:09.000 Yeah.

01:28:10.000 Like, if they would've just left it at that, like, like, there are some bad, badass women that could've done it, and they could've gone in, you know? 1.00

01:28:15.000 Sure.

01:28:16.000 Like, I'm not saying, like, it's a large percentage or a small percentage or anything, but I am saying there are some women that could do it, and then that would just make it even more rewarding. 0.72

01:28:24.000 I feel like everybody gets the same opportunity nowadays when Necessarily, they don't deserve that.

01:28:24.000 Yeah.

01:28:30.000 They don't work as hard, they can't physically do it, you know?

01:28:33.000 Like, I know for a fact if I tried right now to go join the military, I would not get in.

01:28:38.000 No, well, no.

01:28:39.000 Absolutely not, you know?

01:28:40.000 And I don't think it's fair that... You know what, I would correct you and say, it's not that it's not fair, it's that it's not right.

01:28:46.000 Because people do this because they say it's fair, but when we go into that, a lot of people don't know this, for example, in the Marines, a woman can do half as many pull-ups as a man and get a perfect score.

01:28:56.000 I don't think that's fair.

01:28:58.000 I think it needs to be the same standard because it may seem unfair, but it's what's right.

01:29:02.000 But it shouldn't be the same standard because that lowers the standard for the man.

01:29:05.000 Exactly.

01:29:06.000 Well, that's the thing.

01:29:07.000 In the Marines, they don't have a gender neutral test.

01:29:09.000 In the Marines, a man has to do twice as many pull-ups to get a perfect score.

01:29:13.000 So a woman can do half and get a perfect score. 1.00

01:29:16.000 But they're out there on the same battlefield, fighting the same enemy.

01:29:19.000 And I know that I've been accused, and I will continue to be accused of sexism in maintaining my position, but I just don't want to see a woman who can't do pull-ups out there get her head caved in, you know, because she's not qualified to be there. 1.00

01:29:19.000 That's very true. 1.00

01:29:31.000 Right.

01:29:32.000 It comes with deadly ramifications, but I think that... It does come from also, like, a different, like, mental state as well.

01:29:39.000 That's true.

01:29:40.000 That plays a big role.

01:29:41.000 Women are far more likely actually to experience like PTSD, be discharged for that, and that's not to say that women are mentally weaker, it's to say that women are mentally, I would argue, more adept at other situations that men wouldn't handle very well.

01:29:54.000 Exactly.

01:29:54.000 Going out there with a gun and fighting terrorists where you're not able to shower and you're not eating for days is one of those where test after test shows that men perform better.

01:30:04.000 But not when it comes to making sure that, as you mentioned, children are taken care of.

01:30:08.000 I mean, I'm a new dad.

01:30:09.000 Basically all I do for the first year is make sure they don't die. 0.96

01:30:12.000 I'm pretty much useless. 0.78

01:30:14.000 They don't really need me.

01:30:17.000 I think it has a lot to do with the genetic makeup in general.

01:30:21.000 It just results all the way back to the genetic makeup.

01:30:24.000 That's just how a man is built and how a woman is built. 1.00

01:30:28.000 I just feel like physically, men are way more inclined than women. 0.89

01:30:32.000 Do you think most women on this campus would agree with your position?

01:30:35.000 Absolutely not.

01:30:36.000 Why not?

01:30:37.000 It's a women's university. 1.00

01:30:39.000 Okay.

01:30:40.000 They are very... Well, I know what you're saying, but explain what that means.

01:30:44.000 People here are very... I would say liberal.

01:30:49.000 Was it liberal?

01:30:50.000 Maybe not liberal, for a second.

01:30:51.000 Maybe?

01:30:52.000 I don't know.

01:30:52.000 Just because... I don't know.

01:30:54.000 I would say more like... Crazy?

01:30:57.000 More emotionally in touch with... People who are sensitive.

01:31:01.000 Yeah, like more emotionally in touch with like... Who would have expected that at a women's university? 1.00

01:31:06.000 They're just a lot more... I don't know, I guess just like...

01:31:11.000 I'm more emotionally involved with these kind of things, like, oh that's it, they're going to tell you that you're sexist, and they're going to, they're like, oh, you know, people come here, like, women can do anything, you know?

01:31:20.000 Like, yeah, sure, women can do anything, but that doesn't mean that we're not genetically made to not be violent. 0.98

01:31:26.000 Women can't do anything, though. 1.00

01:31:28.000 Nor can men. 0.54

01:31:29.000 I don't know why that's, men can't give birth, and statistically, women can't do pull-ups. 1.00

01:31:33.000 Yeah, I mean, there's just so many things that a man is made for versus a woman, and people here don't see the difference in that, like people in here, a lot. 0.92

01:31:41.000 It's just because of the generation we're growing up in and the generation we're becoming.

01:31:45.000 So you say that your position might be less than popular on a campus like this?

01:31:50.000 Let me ask you this, because women, for the same reason, they're more agreeable, right? 0.99

01:31:50.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:31:54.000 Women tend to be nicer. 1.00

01:31:55.000 They don't tend to be as confrontational.

01:31:57.000 Do you have these conversations?

01:31:59.000 Do you challenge your female classmates when these topics come up? 0.70

01:32:02.000 Or do you just kind of try to sidestep them?

01:32:03.000 I feel like I kind of don't associate myself with I don't know, we already know.

01:32:08.000 It's like, you already know how the conversation is gonna go.

01:32:10.000 So it's like, on a topic like this, it's like you just, like, again, like, my opinions are my opinions.

01:32:17.000 Your opinions are your opinions.

01:32:18.000 People are too sensitive nowadays to be like, well, your opinion's wrong.

01:32:22.000 No, my opinion isn't wrong.

01:32:23.000 We're different people.

01:32:25.000 That's just how it goes.

01:32:26.000 Can I present something to you, just as a thought?

01:32:28.000 Yeah.

01:32:29.000 Because, first off, I think that you've presented yourselves well.

01:32:32.000 Thank you.

01:32:32.000 And you've rationalized your positions well.

01:32:34.000 Thank you.

01:32:35.000 But I would say this.

01:32:37.000 You saying that's your opinion and this is my opinion, that's very respectful, but here's the problem.

01:32:41.000 The people with these other opinions we were talking about on campus, they are the ones determining legislation.

01:32:46.000 Because often people like you, and I don't mean that in a denigrating way, being respectful, you decide, well, live and let live.

01:32:46.000 Very true.

01:32:52.000 But these other people don't.

01:32:54.000 That's very true.

01:32:56.000 Children are allowed on puberty blockers.

01:32:56.000 That's very true.

01:32:58.000 And so, I'm told, right, no vagina, no opinion, even though women obviously have opinions 1.00

01:33:05.000 on men's issues all the time, we need women like you having those conversations 1.00

01:33:09.000 and making sure that you can kind of push back on the legislative process because it is dominated

01:33:13.000 by the kinds of people you're mentioning on this campus.

01:33:15.000 I feel like I kind of gravitate towards people who think the same as me.

01:33:20.000 Like for a summer, I just, I don't do it on purpose.

01:33:22.000 Just like, I just kind of feel like the whole confrontation thing is just something

01:33:27.000 It's exhausting.

01:33:28.000 I'm a very confrontational person, and if someone were to come to me and say... And tell me my opinion's wrong, I'd be like, well... A man can get pregnant, like... Absolutely, no. 0.98

01:33:37.000 Or like, I can turn into a guy if I want to.

01:33:40.000 Like, I just don't think that that is physically...

01:33:43.000 Okay.

01:33:44.000 All I ask is that you have those conversations here on campus, because unfortunately, you know, women... I say this, there's no group of people, maybe black Americans, who are more overly represented in the media, but whose voice is actually completely unrepresented, than women.

01:33:58.000 Because...

01:33:59.000 Everyone sees women, they assume, right, that when they talk about women voting, it's pro-Roe v. Wade, pro-LGBTQ in women's sports, you know, pro-progressivism as opposed to any type of traditional gender roles.

01:34:11.000 And that doesn't mean that they're fixed, but meaning that recognizing the differences between men and women, it's assumed that women are a monolith. 0.90

01:34:18.000 And unfortunately, I think a big part of it is because women like you are nice, which is, you'd still be nice, but don't be afraid to speak out. 1.00

01:34:25.000 Very true.

01:34:25.000 Because I'm sure you feel it, right?

01:34:26.000 I'm sure you feel a little bit of that tension to speak out and maybe you'll be ostracized, right?

01:34:30.000 There is some pressure, I'd imagine.

01:34:31.000 There is some pressure.

01:34:31.000 Especially here, you know.

01:34:32.000 Everybody, I feel like, thinks one way.

01:34:34.000 Right.

01:34:34.000 And I went to a different university.

01:34:36.000 I'm a transfer student, so I went to Howard Payne University in Brownwood, Texas.

01:34:41.000 I don't know if you know where that is, but do you know where Tarleton is?

01:34:44.000 What, Tarleton?

01:34:45.000 Tarleton is?

01:34:45.000 No.

01:34:46.000 Well, it's in Stephenville.

01:34:48.000 Oh, yeah.

01:34:48.000 So Brownwood is an hour away and the campus and the campus life and the community, completely different.

01:34:56.000 If you were to have this same conversation there, you would get completely different answers and it would honestly be less controversial there.

01:35:04.000 But the majority of students are Male students that are white.

01:35:10.000 I would say though, having done this, that's actually never been the case because even if, let's say, the student body is more varied in their points of view, it ends up being a few people who dominate the conversation on any campus.

01:35:19.000 Oh yeah, because they're the ones that want the conversation that have a different view.

01:35:23.000 Yes.

01:35:24.000 Yeah, so.

01:35:25.000 Well, thank you very much.

01:35:26.000 I'm sorry, your names again were?

01:35:27.000 My name's Caitlin.

01:35:28.000 My name's Jewel.

01:35:28.000 Jewel, thank you for being here.

01:35:30.000 I hope I clarified that.

01:35:30.000 I really appreciate you taking the time.

Louder with Crowder - November 17, 2022

Women Should NOT be in Combat Roles | Change My Mind

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