Jared Diamond joins me to talk about his new book, Guns, Germs, and Steel and Collapse, and his new memoir, Upheaval: Turning Points for Nations in Crisis, which explores the rise and fall of civilization. We talk about political polarization in our own time, and how to deal with it, and why we should all be worried about it. And we talk about whether or not we should pay reparations to the descendants of the Unabombers for their crimes, and what we should do in the wake of recent events, such as the recent hearing of Coleman Hughes, who testified in Congress on the question of slavery reparations, and the reaction to that hearing. We also talk about how we should deal with immigration policy, and whether we should have a strong center-talk policy, if we lack a strong political policy about immigration across the globe. And as always, you can support the podcast by subscribing through my website at Samharris.org, where you'll get access to the podcast through my private RSS feed. We don't run ads on the podcast, and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support of our listeners, so if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming a supporter of the podcast you're making a lifelong friend of The Making Sense Podcast. Thanks for listening. It's my pleasure to have you here, and it's my hope that you'll find some value in this sort of thing. -Sam Harris to make sense of what you're listening to this podcast by listening to the Making Sense: a podcast that's making sense of things that matters, not only for you, and not just about what you can be a good time, but also about you, in which you can help us all be a better place to learn more about the things you can do more of it? and what you'll learn about the world we can do better, better, and more of that, and you'll be better at listening to more of this, too, in the things that matter more of what matters more of the things like that, not less of it, more of you're better than that, better than you know more than you're going to learn about it, better of you, better listening, and less of that. Thank you for your support, and I'll see you in the next episode of Making Sense, coming soon, I hope you'll like it, I'll hear you soon.