Making Sense - Sam Harris - #33 — Ask Me Anything 4

A day after the Brussels attacks, a new article accuses Sam Harris of being a "white supremacist" and a "jihadist." What does that mean, exactly? And what does it mean, and why should we be worried about it? In this episode of the Making Sense Podcast, I try to answer these questions and talk about what we can do to combat Islamic extremism and jihadi terrorism in our own community, as well as in the rest of the world. I also discuss why Hillary Clinton needs to stop demonizing Muslims as "bigots" and "Islamophobes," and why she needs to do more than just say words like "anti-Islam" when it comes to the problem of Islamic extremism, terrorism, and political Islamism. And I also talk about why Trump is dangerously unqualified to be president and why he should know better than to say things like "Islamic extremism" or "Jihadism" in the first place, and how he should stop lying about it, and start saying the words "Islamism" and other things about it that actually make sense, like "jihadi terrorism." And, finally, why he's not going to win the election because he's a bad guy, and Hillary is going to be good at it, because he doesn't know what he's talking about, and that's not a problem, and he's going to do anything about it at all, and it's a good thing, and so why he needs to start saying it, at least, and not just talking about it and not saying it in a way that makes sense, and saying it right and being a lot of things that actually makes him feel good about it in order to be a good guy, etc, etc etc. and a good dude, etc. etc., etc. And so much more. Thanks for listening to the episode, and I hope you enjoy it. Please consider becoming a supporter of the podcast, because I'm getting over yet another cold. I have just gotten over a cold, so I'm beginning to wonder whether my commitment to vegetarianism isn't just a strategy cooked up by the cold virus by which to prepare me as a vector by which I can be a vector to lay waste to the world by which we can all be a better human being. . Thank you for listening. -Sam Harris Sam Harris - Making Sense? - The Making Sense podcast by Sam Harris, by John Rocha

00:00:00.000 Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast.

00:00:08.820 This is Sam Harris.

00:00:10.880 Just a note to say that if you're hearing this, you are not currently on our subscriber

00:00:14.680 feed and will only be hearing the first part of this conversation.

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00:00:35.880 So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one.

00:00:47.000 Apologies in advance, I'm getting over yet another cold.

00:00:50.460 I'm beginning to wonder whether my commitment to vegetarianism isn't just a strategy cooked

00:00:55.540 up by the cold virus to prepare me as a vector by which to lay waste to the rest of society.

00:01:01.840 I have just gotten so many colds since I stopped killing animals or paying others to kill them

00:01:08.000 on my behalf.

00:01:09.500 Well, this is an Ask Me Anything podcast, which I'm doing a day after the Brussels attacks.

00:01:16.660 So the questions I have here really don't reflect what has been going on, so I feel somewhat

00:01:22.940 out of sync with what's been going on.

00:01:26.180 Maybe I'll just say a few words about Brussels at the outset.

00:01:29.900 Everything I've written about Islam and jihadism and profiling and related topics should be viewed

00:01:37.020 through the lens of events like this.

00:01:39.620 I really don't have any more to say about this kind of thing, but I'll just give you a glimpse

00:01:45.700 of what my life is like on this issue.

00:01:47.980 So I'm at a conference talking about things like artificial intelligence, and I open my

00:01:52.920 phone to discover that there's an article circulating calling me a white supremacist.

00:01:58.000 Now, needless to say, Reza Aslan has circulated it saying, what do you think Sam Harris means

00:02:02.800 when he says profile anyone who could conceivably be Muslim?

00:02:06.840 Even though in the very paragraph where I make that claim, I make it clear that white guys 0.82

00:02:10.720 like me also fit the profile I'm talking about.

00:02:14.140 And then the very next day, we have attacks like these in Belgium, and you see the pictures

00:02:20.040 of the likely suicide bombers, and once again, they're not blonde-haired old ladies from Iceland.

00:02:25.500 They're not Japanese schoolgirls.

00:02:28.100 They're Middle Eastern young men.

00:02:30.880 And again, let me spell this out.

00:02:32.980 White guys like me have also been recruited to ISIS and Al-Qaeda.

00:02:37.440 So, I'm not putting myself or anyone who looks like me out of the profile, but not everyone

00:02:46.100 is in the profile.

00:02:47.860 My only point about profiling is that we have to admit that we know what we're looking for.

00:02:53.460 We are looking for jihadists. 1.00

00:02:55.880 100% of jihadists are Muslim.

00:02:59.800 In a place like an airport, in addition to random searches and searching all luggage,

00:03:04.640 our security personnel should be looking for people who stand a chance of being jihadists.

00:03:13.100 Now, out in the world, they should be looking for Muslim extremists who may be planning some 1.00

00:03:18.380 sort of attack. 0.93

00:03:19.960 Where should they look for them?

00:03:21.880 Everywhere at random?

00:03:23.400 Is that really what anyone believes?

00:03:26.180 It seems rather obvious that they should be reaching out to the Muslim community.

00:03:30.140 More important, the Muslim community should be scrutinizing itself, profiling itself, one 1.00

00:03:39.580 might say.

00:03:40.720 If you are a moderate Muslim, you have to admit that there is a unique problem of religious 1.00

00:03:46.200 extremism in your own faith community.

00:03:49.740 And if this offends you, you are part of the problem.

00:03:53.960 And if you don't want Muslims demonized, you have to stop obfuscating this issue.

00:04:00.300 What's more, you have to stop attacking people as bigots and Islamophobes for expressing

00:04:05.540 their totally sane concerns about Islamism and jihadism.

00:04:11.780 And as for the presidential election, assuming it's going to be Clinton versus Trump, it's

00:04:16.880 time for Clinton to stop mincing words or lying outright on this topic. 0.78

00:04:21.940 There are no liberals who are suddenly going to vote for Trump because Hillary says something

00:04:26.320 politically incorrect.

00:04:27.360 So to make this clear, I think Trump is dangerously unqualified to be president. 0.94

00:04:34.200 And his apparent unawareness of this is his total lack of concern for his obvious ignorance 0.95

00:04:40.140 is fairly terrifying. 1.00

00:04:41.980 But in his own idiotic way, at least he is naming the problem. 0.99

00:04:47.740 At least he's not pretending that we are all so worried about the IRA or that Middle Eastern 1.00

00:04:54.040 Christians are just as likely to be suicide bombers as Muslims are. 1.00

00:04:59.240 Just think of what a significant attack in the U.S. prior to our election could do if Hillary 1.00

00:05:05.460 continues to sound delusional on this topic.

00:05:07.980 But she has to start using words like Islamic extremism and Islamism and jihadism and political 0.67

00:05:15.640 Islam and Muslim terrorism.

00:05:18.440 The so-called war on terror is not a war against a generic problem of terrorism.

00:05:25.120 It's a war, as Majid Nawaz has said over and over, against a global jihadist insurgency.

00:05:31.720 Unless Clinton starts making sense on this topic, she's going to give ISIS a vote in electing 1.00

00:05:39.120 our next president.

00:05:40.320 And you can be sure they have a favorite candidate.

00:05:43.380 So to say any more here, I think I will just be saying things you've all heard me say a hundred

00:05:49.460 times.

00:05:50.360 I mean, maybe there's just there's one more point to clarify.

00:05:52.720 I clearly have followed Majid's line in distinguishing Islamism from Islam. 0.99

00:06:00.900 And I've been hearing many disgruntled noises from readers who think this is intellectually

00:06:08.160 dishonest.

00:06:09.540 So maybe I should make it clear how I see this.

00:06:12.260 I am a critic of all religion.

00:06:15.120 I think the notion of revelation and the notion that faith trumps reason is dangerous and intrinsically

00:06:21.780 divisive and something we have to get over. 0.94

00:06:24.780 And I have made no secret of the fact that I think Islam is the worst religion on most 1.00

00:06:30.800 points, currently ruling the minds of a significant part of humanity. 0.72

00:06:35.600 So my view hasn't changed here.

00:06:37.820 There is a war of ideas that has to be waged and won with Islam and with anyone who believes 1.00

00:06:44.440 that the Quran is the perfect word of the creator of the universe. 0.64

00:06:47.980 But there's a distinction between nominal Muslims or those who are fairly non-committal in their

00:06:56.400 faith or those who have some interpretation of the faith that allows them to ignore many

00:07:01.720 of its edicts and Islamists. 0.81

00:07:05.340 And there's a difference between Islamists and jihadists.

00:07:08.480 And here I follow Majid's definitions.

00:07:10.680 Islamism is the commitment to impose Islam on the rest of society. 1.00

00:07:14.280 It's intrinsically political.

00:07:16.700 And jihadism is that variant of Islamism that intends to do this by force as opposed to winning 0.95

00:07:22.660 elections or some other process.

00:07:25.540 And I agree with Majid that the way forward is to convince the Muslim world to be increasingly 0.87

00:07:30.660 secular and liberal.

00:07:32.780 And that is a much more promising door to try to force 1.6 billion people through than the 0.98

00:07:40.640 doorway of atheism.

00:07:42.000 Now, insofar as I can persuade Muslims to be atheists and disavow their faith, that's also 1.00

00:07:49.280 something I'm happy to do.

00:07:51.140 And occasionally I notice some success on that front.

00:07:54.460 But I think it is far less realistic in any reasonable time frame to expect 1.6 billion

00:08:01.480 Muslims to apostatize than it is to expect them to reform their religion in a direction of 1.00

00:08:09.140 secularism and liberalism.

00:08:11.540 And I will not pretend to be optimistic on that score either. 0.97

00:08:16.680 Many of you think that is just a fool's errand.

00:08:20.320 What more reasonable project do you have to recommend?

00:08:23.080 So, my view here is that wherever a distinction between Islam and Islamism doesn't exist, we

00:08:32.220 have to create it.

00:08:33.900 Muslims have to create it. 1.00

00:08:35.620 And non-Muslims have to insist that they do. 1.00

00:08:39.900 And if you're feeling powerless here, if you're feeling there's nothing you can do that's useful

00:08:44.220 after an event like this, I would say that the one thing you can do is lose your patience

00:08:50.200 for people obfuscating the problem.

00:08:53.720 Lose your patience for liars.

00:08:56.580 It is not a lie to say that there is a difference between Islamism and Islam. 0.97

00:09:02.360 Because one can be created.

00:09:05.220 There are many Muslims who do not want a global caliphate. 0.99

00:09:08.960 There are many Muslims who do not want homosexuals thrown off of rooftops. 0.95

00:09:14.520 There are many Muslims for whom Islam in some form is important, but who are no more religious 0.98

00:09:20.920 than the least religious person you met yesterday.

00:09:25.680 And these people need to be supported.

00:09:29.240 These people need to win a war of ideas.

00:09:32.360 And where they're not waging one, they have to be encouraged to wage it.

00:09:36.000 And the only way I know to do that is for all of us to keep speaking honestly about the

00:09:41.680 nature of the problem.

00:09:43.080 Okay, so I got your questions on Reddit.

00:09:46.620 And when I last looked at this page, there were over 1,300 of them.

00:09:51.320 So needless to say, I will not make much headway.

00:09:54.940 But I really thank you for delivering so many questions and voting them up.

00:09:58.580 And I can only assume that the ones that came first now were the ones that, in fact, were

00:10:04.600 reliably voted up.

00:10:06.180 Some of these questions surprised me.

00:10:07.840 But maybe I'll dig around a little to find others that are of interest.

00:10:11.780 So there are many questions on anxiety.

00:10:13.980 And one person wrote,

00:10:15.220 Anxiety is a monster that is crippling and paralyzing and keeps you in a loop of debilitating

00:10:20.000 negative emotions, even when one desperately wants out.

00:10:23.660 What are the causes?

00:10:24.680 What can one do to help themselves?

00:10:25.920 What steps, big or small, do you suggest?

00:10:29.440 Well, the neurophysiology of anxiety is pretty well understood.

00:10:34.340 But I don't think understanding it in any detail really helps you.

00:10:39.200 There are drugs you can take to mitigate the effects of anxiety.

00:10:43.740 I should say, up front, I have no clinical experience, and this is not my area.

00:10:49.260 I would think that if anxiety is really crippling, there's some role for drugs to play.

00:10:55.920 Whether it's beta blockers that impede the effect of adrenaline on your heart rate, so you don't

00:11:01.360 get the racing heart experience.

00:11:03.980 Or anti-anxiety drugs that work on the neurotransmitter GABA.

00:11:09.660 But in general, the people who work with anxiety therapeutically, to my understanding, don't

00:11:14.340 recommend you take those drugs.

00:11:16.560 And that you do something more along the line of cognitive behavioral therapy, which is to

00:11:21.620 say you expose yourself in manageable ways to the things that provoke anxiety, and you

00:11:29.140 reframe them conceptually.

00:11:31.840 You become open to feeling the effects of anxiety and realize you can get through it.

00:11:37.160 And there's certainly a role for meditation and mindfulness to play in this part of the

00:11:41.920 process.

00:11:43.000 For instance, many people are afraid to fly, and even those of us who aren't especially

00:11:48.460 afraid to fly can feel anxious in significant turbulence.

00:11:53.760 Now, why do we feel anxious?

00:11:55.280 Well, we have some thought that turbulence might be dangerous, right?

00:12:00.240 That it makes it more likely the plane will crash.

00:12:04.140 And, of course, truly significant turbulence can cause a plane to crash.

00:12:10.400 But this, as we know from the statistics of plane crashes, is a very, very rare thing.

00:12:16.280 So, there are two levels to respond to this experience, so as to mitigate anxiety.

00:12:23.620 So, picture this.

00:12:24.360 You're in an airplane, and it begins to bounce.

00:12:27.740 Now, unless you're in that rare and horrible experience of being actually thrown around the

00:12:34.920 cabin so as to get injured, it's very likely that the bouncing is not physically painful,

00:12:41.440 right?

00:12:41.820 You're not being harmed by this sensation.

00:12:45.240 And in other contexts, you would subject yourself to even more violent bouncing and not be worried

00:12:51.600 about it at all.

00:12:52.320 You might go on some ride at an amusement park, which exerts greater force on you bodily, and

00:12:59.860 you do it because you're seeking that experience out.

00:13:03.660 Now, on an airplane, it's totally unwelcome to you because you're afraid of dying.

00:13:07.780 But if you just take the raw sensations, they are not your problem.

00:13:11.740 It's what they portend is your interpretation of them that worries you.

00:13:15.860 There are at least two levels at which you can deal with this.

00:13:19.340 First is to think conceptually about the nature of the problem and about what you fear.

00:13:26.080 Is it rational to worry that your plane will crash if you're experiencing turbulence?

00:13:31.940 No, it actually isn't.

00:13:34.020 The likelihood of dying in a plane crash is minuscule.

00:13:38.720 Over the course of your journey, you should begin to worry as you leave the airport and get

00:13:43.740 in an Uber or a taxi or drive yourself home in your own car.

00:13:48.000 That's when your risk of mortality begins to peak.

00:13:51.820 So, if you understand that, if you understand that every moment in a plane is, in fact, safer

00:13:59.820 than many moments you spend on the ground, certainly safer than when you're walking as a pedestrian

00:14:06.580 fixated on your smartphone and stepping into the crosswalk, that's when your adrenaline

00:14:13.760 should surge or when you're driving and glancing down at your phone to see what text just came

00:14:19.700 in.

00:14:20.500 Those are the moments where the sweat should begin beating up on your forehead.

00:14:26.100 So, when you're in a plane and it's begun to bounce, it is, in fact, unreasonable to worry

00:14:31.880 that the bouncing means much of anything.

00:14:34.320 If you understand that, that actually can have an effect.

00:14:37.540 Then you can become willing to just experience the raw sensations of turbulence.

00:14:43.360 Then you can cease to interpret the experience as a sign of actual danger.

00:14:49.400 The other level at which you can address this, and these are totally compatible moves, I recommend

00:14:55.040 both of them, is to become mindful of the feeling of anxiety itself.

00:15:00.220 What is it?

00:15:01.680 And what does it mean?

00:15:02.600 Well, it's just sensation.

00:15:05.320 It's just a pattern of energy in your body.

00:15:09.140 And it actually doesn't mean anything at the level of raw sensation.

00:15:15.600 You might have thoughts about it, and very likely much of your thinking in that moment is purposed

00:15:20.840 toward trying to figure out how not to feel that way or not to let it get worse.

00:15:25.380 But if you'll step out of your thoughts and just become willing to feel the raw sensation

00:15:31.320 of anxiety, actually just surrender your resistance to it, just feel it as energy, it can lose

00:15:38.840 its meaning.

00:15:39.460 It can become very difficult to distinguish from what, under another framing, would be

00:15:46.140 a positive experience, like excitement.

00:15:49.480 How do you know the difference between being anxious about something that's about to happen

00:15:54.920 and being excited?

00:15:56.300 For the most part, it is the thoughts you're thinking when you're feeling that arousal.

00:16:02.000 There's a cognitive, conceptual overlay on top of this raw feeling.

00:16:06.640 You can consciously reframe things, or you can step out of it altogether and just feel the

00:16:13.020 raw energy of this experience.

00:16:14.840 And when you do that, anxiety can be like any other experience that has no meaning for

00:16:21.140 you as a person, really.

00:16:22.880 I mean, it doesn't say anything about you.

00:16:24.500 So something like indigestion or itching.

00:16:27.840 Let's say you have a rash on your elbow and it's itching.

00:16:32.000 Okay, that doesn't say anything deep about you as a person that has no psychological implications.

00:16:39.540 It might be unpleasant.

00:16:41.020 It might be extraordinarily unpleasant, but it doesn't reach into your sense of who you

00:16:45.220 are.

00:16:45.820 The deepest way to respond to anxiety, and again, I'm not saying that there is no case in which

00:16:53.260 drugs are valuable or even necessary.

00:16:56.600 There may very well be.

00:16:57.800 But for anxiety in its more ordinary range, the deep way to respond to it is to become

00:17:04.700 willing to feel it, to cease to interpret it as important, and to function in the midst

00:17:13.320 of it.

00:17:14.260 And then it will pass.

00:17:15.900 Anxiety rises and falls like any other emotion.

00:17:19.160 And if you're not continually thinking the thoughts that make you anxious, it actually can't stay

00:17:24.800 around very long.

00:17:25.760 And this is true of other unpleasant emotions like anger and sadness, and they're continually

00:17:31.520 resurrected by our thoughts.

00:17:33.720 And we're spending most of our time thinking without knowing that we're thinking.

00:17:37.800 So mindfulness in particular is a very good antidote to this problem.

00:17:42.100 But the trick is you can't apply it as an antidote.

00:17:45.300 You can't be mindful of anxiety so that it will go away.

00:17:49.300 You can't push it away with meditation, or at least that attempt is more likely to fail.

00:17:56.600 What you're really after in those moments is genuine equanimity, real acceptance of the

00:18:01.460 energy of this emotion.

00:18:03.940 Become interested in it.

00:18:05.540 Become willing to feel it.

00:18:07.020 Just let it burn bright in you and discover that it doesn't matter.

00:18:13.360 It simply comes and it goes and you can function.

00:18:17.340 Next question.

00:18:19.820 What are your thoughts on immortality, or at least living a very, very long time, as pursued

00:18:24.060 by researchers like Aubrey de Grey?

00:18:26.100 Do you think it's possible?

00:18:27.640 Do you think it's desirable?

00:18:29.420 Aubrey, if you're not familiar with Aubrey de Grey, you should watch some of his talks.

00:18:33.540 I think he's given two TED Talks.

00:18:35.360 He has some very good arguments against people's ethical intuitions here.

00:18:40.780 Many people seem to think that if we could cure aging and death and become immortal or live

00:18:47.200 thousands of years, that there's something unethical about that project, that it's either

00:18:53.440 so unnatural as to be unethical or it represents some kind of selfishness that we should be

00:18:59.460 suspicious of.

00:19:00.860 I think Aubrey's rejoinder to those intuitions is compelling.

00:19:04.840 As to whether it's possible, I think it probably is in principle possible.

00:19:09.160 I think Aubrey describes aging as an engineering problem.

00:19:13.440 There are not that many ways in the end to grow old and die.

00:19:17.720 I think he points to seven different ways in which our bodies begin to break down.

00:19:23.180 Cancer is one of those ways.

00:19:25.380 The depositing of junk inside of cells or between cells is another way.

00:19:31.000 There are just not that many ways that an old person on the verge of death differs from 1.00

00:19:37.220 a person in the prime of his or her life.

00:19:40.220 So I agree that if we understood those ways completely and we could intervene biochemically

00:19:46.520 and make the necessary changes, well then we may find that aging is now no longer a problem.

00:19:53.800 We can keep repairing ourselves.

00:19:56.320 And I think that would be a good thing.

00:19:57.560 I think, as Aubrey argues, aging is the worst thing there is.

00:20:03.060 And the only reason why anyone's tempted to accept it is because it appears currently

00:20:08.820 unavoidable.

00:20:10.280 But if you think Alzheimer's should be cured and you think cancer should be cured, well

00:20:15.480 then aging is the super problem you should want solved.

00:20:20.360 Because each of these evils, along with many others, are mere symptoms of aging.

00:20:25.700 Yeah, I agree with Aubrey.

00:20:26.640 I think if there's any way in which I'm skeptical of his discussion of this topic, it may be

00:20:35.400 just a basic uncertainty about whether he's too optimistic about the timeline here.

00:20:41.300 But I think it's an incredibly interesting area to work in.

00:20:45.360 And I think the taboos around declaring one's intent to cure aging are fascinating, both ethically

00:20:53.340 and culturally.

00:20:54.340 And I think Aubrey has said some very useful things in that area.

00:20:59.600 Next question.

00:21:00.660 Sam, I remember you mentioning getting flack from Majid about not liking hip-hop.

00:21:05.000 I'm curious what sort of music you do listen to.

00:21:07.480 Stravinsky, Radiohead, Enya?

00:21:10.020 Well, it's not that I don't like hip-hop.

00:21:11.720 I got a lot of grief about this.

00:21:12.920 I just, I'm not a hip-hop fan.

00:21:15.880 I'm just not, I don't listen to a lot of hip-hop, but I don't recoil at the sound of hip-hop.

00:21:20.140 On this list, I would pick Radiohead of the three choices.

00:21:24.340 The issue with me and music is, one, I'm not a musician.

00:21:27.420 So I'm not, I'm fairly uneducated in this area.

00:21:32.420 And there's a lot of music I like, but I don't spend a lot of time listening to music because

00:21:37.420 I can't work to music.

00:21:39.660 Certainly not music with lyrics.

00:21:41.140 I can't read to it.

00:21:42.080 I can't write to it.

00:21:43.400 I just spend a lot of time trying to ignore the music.

00:21:46.760 I just find silence works better for me.

00:21:49.440 And when I'm not working, I'm a bit of an information junkie.

00:21:55.020 And so I'm listening to audiobooks or podcasts or the news in the car while traveling.

00:22:02.700 So it's, it's, there's not a lot of time for music to get in.

00:22:05.860 And if I'm going to listen to music, I often just put on Spotify or something now.

00:22:10.920 And I, in fact, I don't even know what I'm listening to.

00:22:13.600 I just have something that some AI somewhere is piping into my brain based on the few radio

00:22:19.260 head songs I've selected.

00:22:21.200 And maybe that will be the future of ideas too.

00:22:23.500 At a certain point, you won't know what book you're reading or what lecture you're listening

00:22:27.220 to.

00:22:27.860 Something like Spotify will just start feeding you disconnected ideas.

00:22:32.900 Next question.

00:22:33.960 Why aren't your books translated into Arabic?

00:22:36.300 I'm an Arab who is fortunate enough to be fluent in English, but many Arabs are not as

00:22:40.640 fortunate as I am.

00:22:41.440 I read all your books and I love them all.

00:22:43.340 I just wish they could reach a larger Arab audience, especially the book Islam and the Future

00:22:47.440 of Tolerance.

00:22:48.040 I've been sheepish about letting my books get translated into Arabic.

00:22:53.280 There hasn't been much demand, as you might imagine.

00:22:55.920 But on the few occasions when someone has asked permission to translate one of my books, it's

00:23:02.880 been a long time since this has happened.

00:23:04.800 But I remember declining because I just didn't want to have Salman Rushdie's experience of

00:23:13.480 learning one day that one of his translators got killed.

00:23:18.100 And when you're talking about Arabic or Urdu or any other language from a Muslim majority

00:23:24.080 country, I begin to worry about this sort of thing.

00:23:27.460 So that's why.

00:23:29.040 Maybe that will change.

00:23:30.960 Can you please do a podcast with Richard Lang, disciple and close friend of the late Douglas

00:23:36.040 Harding, about the headless way, the westernized version of Dzogchen? 1.00

00:23:40.360 I imagine getting a Dzogchen master on a podcast could be tough and their message a little abstruse. 1.00

00:23:45.360 But the way Lang and Harding talk about seeing is thrilling.

00:23:50.020 I don't actually know Richard Lang.

00:23:51.800 I've seen a couple of his videos online.

00:23:55.260 And he seems to make perfect sense on this topic, as did Douglas Harding.

00:23:59.220 And I will talk about this practice more, and I'll talk about it in particular in the meditation

00:24:06.020 app I'm building.

00:24:07.920 But it's a little difficult for a podcast.

00:24:10.580 So much of it is visual.

00:24:12.420 The exercises that Douglas Harding recommended and which I'm sure Lang teaches are based on

00:24:19.940 changing your relationship to your visual field.

00:24:23.440 And I write about this a little bit in my book, Waking Up.

00:24:27.780 We define our sense of self, visually, in particular.

00:24:32.560 It's not the only way.

00:24:33.560 You still, if you feel like a self with your eyes open, you're going to feel like a self

00:24:37.380 with your eyes closed.

00:24:38.840 But the experience of selflessness can be very striking with your eyes open, because it changes

00:24:45.640 your felt sense of subject-object perception with respect to everything that you see.

00:24:52.240 And the way that Harding described this, in particular in his book, On Having No Head,

00:24:57.780 is as the experience of headlessness, where he would look out at his visual field, and then

00:25:04.880 he would look for his head.

00:25:07.600 He would recognize that his head was not among the contents of his visual field.

00:25:13.740 And as you listen to me now, you might do this.

00:25:15.760 Just with your eyes open, look at whatever it is you can see, and notice that your face,

00:25:22.740 your face, or your head, is not among the things that you see.

00:25:27.720 In fact, where your head is supposed to be, there's just the world.

00:25:32.440 And if you become sensitive to this consideration, if you look for what you presume you are looking

00:25:38.960 out of and fail to find it, you can have a, as the questioner says, a thrilling sense of having lost

00:25:46.700 the feeling of subject-object perception.

00:25:49.780 And this itself can become a basis of mindfulness.

00:25:54.460 This can be the thing you pay attention to when you meditate, as opposed to your breath or

00:25:59.160 any other object of attention.

00:26:00.740 And some very powerful changes in your conscious experience can happen the more you do this.

00:26:07.960 But as far as talking about this at length on a podcast, it's a little difficult because

00:26:12.200 much of what needs to be said needs to be indicated visually.

00:26:17.620 And so it definitely lends itself more to video than audio.

00:26:21.160 But I will try to be precise about it in my meditation app.

00:26:25.920 What are your preferred news sources?

00:26:28.200 Well, nothing especially esoteric here.

00:26:30.740 I read the New York Times every day.

00:26:33.180 I read the Atlantic.

00:26:34.800 I listen to NPR.

00:26:36.800 I watch television news rather often, whether it's the evening news or 60 Minutes or Frontline

00:26:44.520 or Vice documentaries.

00:26:46.640 I'll go to the BBC website sometimes.

00:26:49.920 And often somebody on social media will send me a link to something more esoteric, like an

00:26:55.060 English language paper in Pakistan, for instance.

00:26:57.680 So I do see things that are off the beaten path.

00:27:01.500 But for the most part, I have very standard and uninteresting sources of news.

00:27:08.020 But I do consume a fair amount of it.

00:27:10.560 One of the virtues of social media is that if I haven't noticed something through any of

00:27:14.300 these channels, I very often hear about it from one of you.

00:27:17.400 Sam, I heard you say once before that the left has one advantage over the right and that

00:27:23.100 it has a self-correcting mechanism.

00:27:25.080 Well, now that the left seems to be going off the deep end, we need those mechanisms.

00:27:28.500 I'm not sure I said that, or at least I don't think I said that it was an advantage.

00:27:34.020 In fact, it's a disadvantage.

00:27:36.000 The self-criticism of the left is a disadvantage in its tug of war with the right.

00:27:42.720 The left eats its own in a way that the right never seems to.

00:27:46.860 And what you find on the left is a criticism of one's own tribe, which can lead to a kind

00:27:53.160 of masochism.

00:27:54.540 Now, short of masochism, obviously self-criticism is an intellectual virtue.

00:28:00.540 It's very good to wonder whether or not one is wrong, to wonder whether or not one's opponent,

00:28:05.820 politically, might have a point, to wonder whether or not one's group has treated other

00:28:11.060 groups, especially less powerful.

00:28:14.920 If you'd like to continue listening to this conversation, you'll need to subscribe at

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00:28:24.820 with other subscriber-only content, including bonus episodes and AMAs, and the conversations

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00:28:49.860 Thank you.

Making Sense - Sam Harris - March 26, 2016

#33 — Ask Me Anything 4

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