Making Sense - Sam Harris - #343 — What Is ＂Islamophobia＂？

What is Islamophobia? Is it a new form of hatred against Muslims, or is it just another form of racism? Sam Harris explains what Islamophobia really is, and why it's not so different from other forms of hatred, like racism and xenophobia, that are used in the mainstream media and in everyday speech. He also points out that the First Amendment protects freedom of speech and freedom of the press, which are two of the most precious things a person can have in a free and fair society. And he argues that Islamophobia is not an expression of irrational fear, it's a form of irrational ignorance, and that we should be careful not to confuse it with racism and anti-Semitism, which aren't the same thing at all. Sam argues that there's no such thing as Islamophobia at all, and there's only one religion that has made it unsafe for everyone else to criticize it, or indeed for its own members to leave it. And that's only Muslims routinely fear for their lives when they decide to leave their religion, and only Muslims who do so do so in order to honor their religion and their religion's values and practices as a result of fear of their religion being challenged by criticism of it. and what does it have to do with their beliefs and their beliefs? And why is this a problem? Sam explains it, and how it s not a problem at all in this episode of the Making Sense Podcast made by a man who doesn't understand the difference between religion and belief? and religion by a guy who doesn t understand what religion is . a Mormon who does what it means to be a Mormon ? is a good neighbor not a bad neighbor ? and why they should be allowed to poke fun at Mormonism or make fun of it at Mormons so they don t get it? What does it mean it s good neighbors why Mormons don t make good neighbors ? is it safe to poke at Mormonism? Is it safe for them to leave religion? Why is it not? is not a religion that makes them better than everyone else ? What are you supposed to be good neighbors? How do you know what you should do by Mormons ? Why do you need to leave Mormonism ? what are you gonna poke at their religion ? does it make you better than Mormons? And what is freedom?

00:00:00.000 Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast.

00:00:23.080 This is Sam Harris.

00:00:25.420 What is Islamophobia? 0.98

00:00:27.280 Someone once said, it's a word invented by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate 1.00

00:00:33.960 morons. 1.00

00:00:35.280 And that's not far from the truth. 1.00

00:00:37.740 There's no question that the term has been designed to confuse people.

00:00:41.860 Its purpose is to conflate any criticism of Islam, which is a doctrine of religious beliefs,

00:00:48.080 with bigotry against Muslims as people.

00:00:51.120 In fact, it equates secularism itself, the commitment to keeping religion out of our 0.99

00:00:55.860 laws and public policy, with hatred.

00:00:59.180 And the term is now being widely used in the mainstream media, and making it impossible

00:01:03.900 to speak honestly about the consequences of dangerous ideas.

00:01:07.900 Let's be clear about what is real here and what is fake.

00:01:12.540 Racism is real, right?

00:01:14.420 There are white supremacists in America, for instance. 1.00

00:01:16.780 And of course, these imbeciles can be counted upon to hate immigrants from Muslim-majority 1.00

00:01:20.720 countries—Arabs, Pakistanis, Somalis, etc.—and to hate them for their superficial characteristics, 1.00

00:01:27.720 like the color of their skin. 0.99

00:01:29.660 This is detestable. 0.96

00:01:31.440 But these people hate non-Muslim immigrants, too—for instance, Hindus from India—and for 0.93

00:01:36.700 the same reasons.

00:01:37.960 We already have words like racism and xenophobia to cover this problem.

00:01:42.280 Islam—inventing a new term like Islamophobia doesn't give us license to say that there's

00:01:47.740 a new form of hatred in the world.

00:01:50.460 There is no race of Muslims.

00:01:53.300 Islam is a system of ideas, subscribed to by people of every race and ethnicity.

00:01:58.660 It's just like Christianity in that regard. 0.91

00:02:01.640 Christianity and Islam are both aggressively missionary faiths, and they win converts from

00:02:07.480 everywhere.

00:02:07.880 People criticize Christianity all the time and worry about its political and social influences,

00:02:13.840 but no one confuses this for bigotry against Christians as people.

00:02:18.400 There's no such thing as Christophobia.

00:02:20.800 If you criticize Christianity—and I have written an entire book excoriating Christianity—no

00:02:27.860 one accuses you of being a racist against people from Brazil, or Mexico, or Ethiopia, or the

00:02:35.340 Philippines.

00:02:35.800 But even the New York Times will use the term Islamophobia as a synonym for racism against

00:02:42.380 Arabs.

00:02:43.560 This is pure delusion and propaganda.

00:02:47.060 There are Christian Arabs, and I could become a Muslim in five minutes just by converting to

00:02:52.120 the faith.

00:02:53.860 How does the term anti-Semitism differ as a concept?

00:02:58.060 Well, we have a 2,000-year-old tradition of religiously inspired hatred against Jews, courtesy 0.94

00:03:03.680 of Christian theology.

00:03:04.680 But for the last 150 years or so, Jews have been thought of as a distinct race of people,

00:03:10.260 both by those who hate them, and rather often by Jews themselves.

00:03:15.400 So anti-Semitism tends to be expressed as a specific form of racism.

00:03:21.040 Anti-Semites are not focused on what Jews believe, or even on what they do on the basis of their

00:03:26.080 beliefs.

00:03:27.080 Modern anti-Semites, like Nazis, care about who your mother's mother's mother was.

00:03:33.060 Just like racism, anti-Semitism has become a hatred of people as people, not because of

00:03:40.000 their beliefs or their behavior, but because of the merest circumstances of their birth.

00:03:44.100 Why is this different?

00:03:47.060 Well, unlike a person's race, or skin color, or country of origin, beliefs can be argued

00:03:52.640 for, and criticized, and changed.

00:03:55.940 And the truth is, we don't respect people's beliefs just because they hold them.

00:04:00.140 Beliefs must earn respect.

00:04:02.120 And there's a good reason for this.

00:04:03.880 Beliefs are claims about reality, and about how human beings should live within it.

00:04:08.120 So they necessarily lead to behaviors, and to values, and laws, and institutions that

00:04:14.780 affect the lives of everyone, whether they share these beliefs or not.

00:04:18.840 Beliefs end marriages and start wars. 0.92

00:04:22.480 Honestly criticizing the doctrine of Islam does not entail bigotry against Arabs or any

00:04:28.680 other group of people.

00:04:30.220 It's not an expression of hatred to notice that specific Islamic ideas, in particular beliefs

00:04:36.080 about martyrdom, and jihad, and blasphemy, and apostasy, inspire terrible acts of violence.

00:04:43.040 And it's not an expression of phobia, that is, irrational fear, to notice that violent

00:04:48.760 religious fanatics don't make good neighbors.

00:04:52.060 And while every religion has its fanatics, there is only one religion on earth where even

00:04:57.500 its mainstream members seek to impose their religious taboos on everyone else.

00:05:02.240 There is only one religion that has made it unsafe for people to criticize it, or indeed

00:05:08.440 for its own members to leave it.

00:05:10.740 Only Muslims routinely fear for their lives when they decide to leave their religion.

00:05:16.680 And this is true even in the West.

00:05:19.460 If you doubt this, just read some books or listen to some podcasts by ex-Muslims. 0.99

00:05:25.560 Anyone who wants to draw a cartoon, or write a novel, or stage a play that makes fun of Mormonism 0.83

00:05:32.920 is free to do that.

00:05:35.020 In the United States, this freedom is nominally guaranteed by the First Amendment.

00:05:39.300 But that is not, in fact, what guarantees it.

00:05:42.600 The freedom to poke fun at Mormonism is guaranteed by the fact that Mormons don't tend to murder

00:05:47.860 their critics.

00:05:49.460 They don't start riots and burn embassies in response to satire.

00:05:53.700 When the Book of Mormon became the most celebrated musical in the United States, the LDS Church

00:05:59.060 protested by placing ads for their faith in the program.

00:06:03.540 That might have been a wasted effort, but it was also a charming sign of good humor.

00:06:08.820 Yes, there are crazy and dangerous people in every faith, and I often hear from them. 1.00

00:06:14.280 But what is true of Mormonism is true of every other religion, with a single exception. 0.93

00:06:19.540 And can you imagine staging a similar play about Islam anywhere on Earth?

00:06:25.440 No, you cannot, unless you also imagine the creators of that play being hunted for the 0.98

00:06:30.820 rest of their lives by religious maniacs.

00:06:33.520 You also have to imagine Muslims by the hundreds of thousands in dozens of countries going absolutely 0.98

00:06:39.560 berserk.

00:06:40.220 At this moment in history, there is only one religion that systematically stifles free expression 1.00

00:06:47.580 with credible threats of violence.

00:06:50.300 The truth is, we have already lost our First Amendment freedoms with respect to Islam. 1.00

00:06:54.460 We lost them decades ago.

00:06:56.440 And anyone who is tempted to cry Islamophobia at this point shares the blame for this.

00:07:02.580 This status quo is intolerable.

00:07:05.280 And most important, it should be intolerable to Muslims themselves. 1.00

00:07:08.580 They should be mortified that their community is so uniquely combustible, so uniquely uncivil, 0.99

00:07:15.520 so incapable of self-reflection and self-criticism, so dangerously childish, so desperate to make

00:07:22.880 the whole world its safe space.

00:07:26.260 Consider what is actually happening.

00:07:28.600 Some percentage of the world's Muslims, and it's not just extremists, are demanding that

00:07:33.640 all non-Muslims conform to Islamic law. 0.94

00:07:36.780 And while they might not immediately resort to violence in their protests, they threaten

00:07:41.400 it.

00:07:42.440 Carrying a sign through the streets of London that reads, 0.61

00:07:45.720 Behead those who insult the Prophet, might still count as an example of peaceful protest, 0.94

00:07:51.120 but it is also an assurance that infidel blood would be shed if the thug holding the sign 0.99

00:07:56.620 only had more power. 0.98

00:07:58.500 Wherever Muslims have real power, this grotesque promise is always fulfilled. 1.00

00:08:03.280 To make a film, or stage a play, or write a novel, critical of Islam, in any Muslim-majority 0.98

00:08:10.700 country, is as sure a method of suicide as the laws of physics allow. 0.66

00:08:15.800 There is only one religion on earth that has normalized this level of fanaticism.

00:08:21.980 And it isn't an expression of bigotry to notice that this is totally antithetical to

00:08:27.520 everything that civilized people value in the 21st century.

00:08:31.180 The October 7th attacks in Israel changed the way that many of us think about the vulnerability

00:08:35.800 of open societies.

00:08:37.600 They changed the way we think about immigration and failures of assimilation.

00:08:41.580 And they revealed a level of moral confusion in our universities and other institutions

00:08:46.020 that is as astonishing as it is masochistic.

00:08:49.480 We have people who are ostensibly committed to women's rights, and gay rights, and trans

00:08:54.880 rights, mindlessly supporting people who would hurl them from rooftops or beat them to death 0.59

00:09:00.940 with their own hands. 0.81

00:09:02.280 It is not a sign of bigotry to notice this hypocrisy and moral confusion for what it is.

00:09:08.320 It really is possible to be critical of Israel and to be committed to the political rights

00:09:13.300 of the Palestinian people without denying the reality of Islamic religious fanaticism or the

00:09:19.040 threat that it poses not just to Israel, but to open societies everywhere.

00:09:24.000 There have been nearly 50,000 acts of Islamic terrorism in the last 40 years.

00:09:28.700 90% of them have occurred in Muslim countries.

00:09:31.460 Most have nothing to do with Israel or Jews.

00:09:34.580 There have been 82 attacks in France and over 2,000 in Pakistan during this period.

00:09:39.500 Do you want France to be more like Pakistan? 1.00

00:09:41.700 You just need more jihadists. 0.98

00:09:43.680 You just need more people susceptible to becoming jihadists.

00:09:46.540 You just need a wider Muslim community that won't condemn jihadism, but pretends that the 0.99

00:09:51.660 theology that inspires it will be true and perfect until the end of the world.

00:09:56.060 You just need millions of people who will protest Israel for defending itself, or call for the 0.84

00:10:00.840 deaths of cartoonists for depicting the prophet Muhammad, and yet who will not make a peep about

00:10:05.460 the jihadist atrocities that occur daily, all over the world, in the name of their religion. 0.94

00:10:10.440 When hundreds of thousands of people show up in London to condemn Hamas, or the Islamic 1.00

00:10:17.600 state, or any specific instance of jihadist savagery, without both sides in anything, then

00:10:24.660 we will know that something has changed.

00:10:27.000 When Muslims by the millions pour into the streets in protest, not over cartoons depicting

00:10:33.480 the prophet Muhammad, but over the murder of cartoonists, by their own religious fanatics,

00:10:39.520 we will know that we have made a modicum of progress.

00:10:43.340 The Muslim world needs to win a war of ideas with itself, and perhaps several civil wars. 0.99

00:10:50.020 It has to de-radicalize itself.

00:10:53.020 It has to transform the doctrine of jihad into something far more benign than it is.

00:10:58.300 And it has to stop supporting its religious fanatics when they come into conflict with

00:11:02.760 non-Muslims.

00:11:04.480 This is what is so toxic. 1.00

00:11:06.740 Muslims supporting other Muslims, no matter how sociopathic or insane their behavior. 1.00

00:11:13.240 If the Muslim community and the political left can't stand against jihadism, it is only 0.98

00:11:18.320 a matter of time before their moral blindness leads to right-wing authoritarianism in the West.

00:11:23.420 If secular liberals won't create secure borders, fascists will. 0.99

00:11:29.380 And that is a world that none of us should want to live in.

Making Sense - Sam Harris - December 06, 2023

#343 — What Is ＂Islamophobia＂？

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