Making Sense - Sam Harris - #35 — The End Of Faith Sessions 1

00:00:00.000 Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast.

00:00:08.820 This is Sam Harris.

00:00:10.880 Just a note to say that if you're hearing this, you are not currently on our subscriber

00:00:14.680 feed and will only be hearing the first part of this conversation.

00:00:18.440 In order to access full episodes of the Making Sense Podcast, you'll need to subscribe at

00:00:22.720 samharris.org.

00:00:24.140 There you'll find our private RSS feed to add to your favorite podcatcher, along with

00:00:28.360 other subscriber-only content.

00:00:30.520 We don't run ads on the podcast, and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support

00:00:34.640 of our subscribers.

00:00:35.880 So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one.

00:00:46.540 I'm going to be starting today a series entitled The End of Faith Sessions.

00:00:51.900 This is inspired by two things.

00:00:54.340 The first is that I've always heard that the audiobook edition of The End of Faith is

00:01:00.100 deeply unsatisfying.

00:01:02.900 I actually haven't heard it myself, but rumor has it that the voice actor who read it didn't

00:01:10.220 do a good job, and in places even seem to disagree with me and give a deliberately infelicitous

00:01:18.880 reading of the text.

00:01:20.200 And it's also the case that the most controversial things I've ever written are in that book and

00:01:26.480 continue to come back to haunt me.

00:01:28.520 So I'm going to read much of the book, most of the book, perhaps all of the book, in a series

00:01:37.060 of podcasts, and then elaborate on what I wrote there, issuing any caveats as needed.

00:01:44.900 And I may, in fact, not read certain sections of it, but this is me jailbreaking the audio,

00:01:52.720 for better or worse.

00:01:59.760 Chapter One

00:02:00.780 Reason in Exile

00:02:02.800 The young man boards the bus as it leaves the terminal.

00:02:07.740 He wears an overcoat.

00:02:09.880 Beneath his overcoat, he is wearing a bomb.

00:02:12.020 His pockets are filled with nails, ball bearings, and rat poison.

00:02:17.240 The bus is crowded and headed for the heart of the city.

00:02:20.460 The young man takes his seat beside a middle-aged couple.

00:02:23.560 He will wait for the bus to reach its next stop.

00:02:26.600 The couple at his side appears to be shopping for a new refrigerator.

00:02:30.560 The woman has decided on a model, but her husband worries that it will be too expensive.

00:02:34.860 He indicates another one in a brochure that lies open on her lap.

00:02:38.340 The next stop comes into view.

00:02:40.080 The bus doors swing.

00:02:42.680 The woman observes that the model her husband has selected will not fit in the space underneath

00:02:46.640 their cabinets.

00:02:48.540 New passengers have taken the last remaining seats and begun gathering in the aisle.

00:02:53.740 The bus is now full.

00:02:56.000 The young man smiles.

00:02:58.300 With the press of a button, he destroys himself, the couple at his side, and twenty others on

00:03:03.160 the bus.

00:03:04.140 The nails, ball bearings, and rat poison ensure further casualties on the street and in the

00:03:08.660 surrounding cars.

00:03:09.460 All has gone according to plan.

00:03:12.620 The young man's parents soon learn of his fate.

00:03:15.200 Although saddened to have lost a son, they feel tremendous pride at his accomplishment.

00:03:19.400 They know that he has gone to heaven and prepared a way for them to follow.

00:03:22.580 He has also sent his victims to hell for eternity.

00:03:25.480 It is a double victory.

00:03:27.320 The neighbors find the event a great cause for celebration and honor the young man's parents

00:03:31.400 by giving them gifts of food and money.

00:03:33.240 These are the facts.

00:03:35.700 This is all we know for certain about the young man.

00:03:38.420 Is there anything else that we can infer about him on the basis of his behavior?

00:03:42.420 Was he popular in school?

00:03:44.500 Was he rich or was he poor?

00:03:46.140 Was he of a low or high intelligence?

00:03:49.940 His actions leave no clue at all.

00:03:52.600 Did he have a college education?

00:03:54.700 Did he have a bright future as a mechanical engineer?

00:03:58.020 His behavior is simply mute on questions of this sort and hundreds like them.

00:04:01.640 Why is it so easy then?

00:04:03.880 So trivially easy?

00:04:05.460 You could almost bet your life on it easy to guess the young man's religion.

00:04:11.080 Okay, so that's how I started the book.

00:04:14.000 And this opening has been quite controversial for reasons that make no sense.

00:04:20.360 Many people who object to this beginning, which is a fictionalized account in its details,

00:04:27.420 are merely imagining what a prototypical suicide bombing on a bus might be like.

00:04:35.940 Many have objected that there's something unrealistic about this,

00:04:40.240 or that these kinds of events don't happen,

00:04:42.520 that this is a falsehood to put this forward

00:04:45.840 as somehow indicative of the kind of thing that is happening in our world

00:04:51.400 that has been happening for decades.

00:04:53.880 Well, that claim is simply false.

00:04:55.700 This is a prototypical case for a reason.

00:04:59.640 The details I've given here,

00:05:01.740 apart from the fictionalized couple shopping for a refrigerator,

00:05:06.640 are well attested to.

00:05:09.200 This is precisely the sort of thing that Muslim suicide bombers have done

00:05:14.300 and continue to do.

00:05:16.400 And I believe that every detail here is factual,

00:05:20.120 including the penultimate gesture of smiling at the victims.

00:05:24.380 That is also well attested to by those who have survived suicide attacks.

00:05:31.520 And while there are others who have committed suicide bombings,

00:05:35.580 and for quite some time the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka

00:05:38.720 were the most prolific suicide bombers,

00:05:41.760 it was the case when I wrote this,

00:05:43.900 and it is even more true now,

00:05:46.260 that when you hear about a suicide bombing,

00:05:48.880 there is one thing you can be virtually certain of,

00:05:52.820 and that is that it was carried out by a believer in Islam.

00:05:57.780 Someone who believes in paradise.

00:05:59.860 Someone who believes that he was going to paradise

00:06:02.220 because of his martyrdom.

00:06:04.640 Someone who believed that he was sending infidels to hell

00:06:08.300 where they will burn for eternity.

00:06:10.740 Someone who is in touch with a community of people

00:06:13.860 who believe the same things.

00:06:16.280 That's not to say that a non-Muslim suicide bomber is impossible,

00:06:20.900 but you can know these things about any suicide bomber today

00:06:26.220 with a high order of confidence.

00:06:29.200 And that is a claim about which I think no honest person

00:06:32.320 can pretend to be in doubt at this moment in history.

00:06:35.960 If you tell me that an airplane has been hijacked,

00:06:39.640 or that a pilot of a plane

00:06:41.700 has intentionally flown it into a building

00:06:44.860 or into the ground,

00:06:46.620 killing himself and everyone else on board,

00:06:49.580 and you stipulate that this person was not mentally ill

00:06:53.280 or suicidally depressed,

00:06:55.720 as has happened on occasion,

00:06:58.300 I can tell you what you will hear on the black box

00:07:01.880 if that black box gets recovered.

00:07:04.040 I can tell you the pilot's or hijacker's last words.

00:07:08.640 Now, how can I do that?

00:07:10.020 Is it because I'm psychic?

00:07:11.520 No.

00:07:12.860 But I will take this bet every time.

00:07:15.720 Why do I know that if you recover that black box,

00:07:19.100 you will hear someone screaming,

00:07:21.320 Allahu Akbar?

00:07:22.840 Because only one ideology on earth

00:07:25.840 is producing this behavior reliably at this point.

00:07:30.100 And that ideology,

00:07:31.080 which I would call jihadism or Islamism now,

00:07:35.020 depending on the context,

00:07:36.400 comes directly out of the religion of Islam.

00:07:39.820 And no other religion is producing an analogous death cult

00:07:43.100 at this moment.

00:07:44.720 And as I will make very clear in this book,

00:07:47.680 there are theological reasons for this.

00:07:50.380 And while I will go on to criticize Christianity and other religions

00:07:55.480 for their specific problems,

00:07:58.640 their problems are different.

00:08:00.980 And the problem of suicidal jihad

00:08:03.320 is not something that all religions are culpable for.

00:08:08.260 And if you're going to be in the business of criticizing religion,

00:08:11.220 or even maintaining the security of your own society,

00:08:15.120 it's only decent to acknowledge that difference.

00:08:19.340 So if you're one of those people who think

00:08:20.900 I have stacked the deck against Islam

00:08:23.300 by providing this generic example of a suicide bombing,

00:08:28.020 I think you're quite clearly fooling yourself.

00:08:32.000 Back to the book.

00:08:33.140 A belief is a lever that, once pulled,

00:08:37.040 moves almost everything else in a person's life.

00:08:40.060 Are you a scientist?

00:08:41.300 A liberal?

00:08:42.220 A racist?

00:08:43.440 These are merely species of belief in action.

00:08:46.320 Your beliefs define your vision of the world.

00:08:48.700 They dictate your behavior.

00:08:50.380 They determine your emotional responses to other human beings.

00:08:53.700 If you doubt this,

00:08:54.980 consider how your experience would suddenly change

00:08:57.540 if you came to believe one of the following propositions.

00:09:00.620 1. You have only two weeks to live.

00:09:05.600 2. You've just won a lottery prize of $100 million.

00:09:10.380 3. Aliens have implanted a receiver in your skull

00:09:14.200 and are manipulating your thoughts.

00:09:16.860 These are mere words, until you believe them.

00:09:19.740 Once believed, they become part of the very apparatus of your mind,

00:09:23.600 determining your desires, fears, expectations, and subsequent behavior.

00:09:28.100 There seems, however, to be a problem

00:09:29.520 with some of our most cherished beliefs about the world.

00:09:32.120 They are leading us, inexorably, to kill one another.

00:09:35.880 A glance at history, or at the pages of any newspaper,

00:09:39.100 reveals that ideas which divide one group of human beings from another,

00:09:42.780 only to unite them in slaughter,

00:09:44.940 generally have their roots in religion.

00:09:47.280 Now here, I should say,

00:09:48.700 I think the word generally here is inaccurate.

00:09:51.420 I should have said often have their roots in religion.

00:09:55.640 I don't think most wars have been religious in origin.

00:09:59.500 A significant subset have been.

00:10:02.080 And certainly when societies break down along tribal lines,

00:10:07.060 breaking down along confessional lines

00:10:09.940 into religious camps is a very common phenomenon.

00:10:13.900 And this is not to say that people are motivated by theology

00:10:17.240 in their subsequent conflict,

00:10:18.880 but they're motivated by religious tribalism.

00:10:21.380 But I wouldn't say that most wars have been religious,

00:10:25.440 though I think some of the scariest divisions in our world now

00:10:29.120 are explicitly religious.

00:10:31.320 Back to the text.

00:10:32.080 It seems that if our species ever eradicates itself through war,

00:10:36.280 it will not be because it was written in the stars,

00:10:38.740 but because it was written in our books.

00:10:40.540 It is what we do with words like God and paradise and sin in the present

00:10:44.720 that will determine our future.

00:10:47.060 Our situation is this.

00:10:49.140 Most of the people in this world believe that the creator of the universe

00:10:52.260 has written a book.

00:10:53.640 We have the misfortune of having many such books on hand,

00:10:56.720 each making an exclusive claim as to its infallibility.

00:10:59.600 People tend to organize themselves into factions

00:11:02.340 according to which of these incompatible claims they accept,

00:11:05.680 rather than on the basis of language, skin color, location of birth,

00:11:09.720 or any other criterion of tribalism.

00:11:12.500 Each of these texts urges its readers to adopt a variety of beliefs and practices,

00:11:16.940 some of which are benign, many of which are not.

00:11:20.100 All are in perverse agreement on one point of fundamental importance, however.

00:11:24.440 Quote,

00:11:24.720 respect for other faiths, or for the views of unbelievers,

00:11:28.880 is not an attitude that God endorses.

00:11:31.640 While all faiths have been touched here and there by the spirit of ecumenicalism,

00:11:35.680 the central tenet of every religious tradition

00:11:37.880 is that all others are mere repositories of error,

00:11:41.560 or at best, dangerously incomplete.

00:11:44.620 Intolerance is thus intrinsic to every creed.

00:11:47.200 Once a person believes, really believes,

00:11:50.780 that certain ideas can lead to eternal happiness,

00:11:53.780 or to its antithesis,

00:11:55.520 he cannot tolerate the possibility that the people he loves

00:11:58.500 might be led astray by the blandishments of unbelievers.

00:12:02.460 Certainty about the next life is simply incompatible with tolerance in this one.

00:12:07.300 And I certainly stand by this claim.

00:12:10.880 I'm sure I'll revisit this at some point in the book,

00:12:13.120 but just imagine what it would be like,

00:12:17.160 some of you might in fact know what it's like,

00:12:19.860 to be certain that the difference between

00:12:22.880 spending eternity in heaven,

00:12:25.660 or eternity in hell,

00:12:27.520 turns on whether you believe the right things about a book,

00:12:31.660 or about the origin of the universe.

00:12:34.080 Now, many people pretend to believe these things,

00:12:38.160 or believe it to some degree,

00:12:39.540 but if you are certain of this,

00:12:41.180 if you are certain that someone,

00:12:43.220 someone with the wrong ideas,

00:12:45.600 by persuading your child to doubt the truth of your religion,

00:12:50.180 has thereby prepared an eternity of suffering

00:12:53.340 for the person you care about most in this world,

00:12:56.980 well, if anything is intolerable,

00:12:59.160 that is.

00:13:00.180 That is worse than your neighbor

00:13:02.100 kidnapping your child

00:13:04.040 and torturing him or her

00:13:06.620 in his basement

00:13:07.960 for a decade, right?

00:13:10.500 And we're talking about an eternity

00:13:12.360 of hellfire.

00:13:14.420 That is the worst possible fate.

00:13:17.800 And what many people lose sight of

00:13:20.760 is that some people

00:13:22.900 really believe

00:13:25.120 that this fate awaits you

00:13:27.600 if you think the wrong things

00:13:30.400 about the origin of a book

00:13:33.160 or about the invisible being

00:13:35.860 who is imagined to have dictated it.

00:13:39.140 And it's only insofar as people are

00:13:41.820 uncertain about these claims,

00:13:44.400 it's only insofar as they doubt

00:13:46.780 these doctrines

00:13:48.080 that they otherwise pay lip service to

00:13:50.300 that they are capable

00:13:51.920 of behaving themselves

00:13:53.920 in a condition

00:13:55.380 of epistemological pluralism,

00:13:59.820 in a condition of rival truth claims,

00:14:02.520 in a condition where

00:14:03.600 teachers

00:14:04.800 and camp counselors

00:14:06.700 and new friends

00:14:09.160 may lead their children

00:14:11.160 to doubt the truth

00:14:13.160 of their religion.

00:14:14.540 Otherwise, the need to resort to violence

00:14:17.060 is absolutely imperative.

00:14:19.340 What would you do

00:14:21.040 if you knew

00:14:22.400 someone was about to inflict

00:14:24.700 an eternity of misery

00:14:26.640 on your child?

00:14:28.920 You would do whatever it took

00:14:30.320 to stop them.

00:14:31.620 And if you couldn't pass

00:14:32.800 the requisite laws,

00:14:34.380 you would become a law

00:14:35.660 unto yourself.

00:14:37.460 This leaves aside, of course,

00:14:39.100 the curious morality of a god

00:14:41.480 who would do such a thing.

00:14:43.920 God, the omniscient sociopath,

00:14:47.060 who has rigged the game this way,

00:14:48.680 who has condemned

00:14:50.160 to eternal torment

00:14:52.080 people who,

00:14:53.480 by mere accident of birth,

00:14:55.360 by the sheer fact

00:14:56.440 that they have the wrong nouns

00:14:58.140 and verbs

00:14:58.940 in their heads,

00:15:00.440 they will spend eternity

00:15:02.140 being tortured.

00:15:04.300 That is the source

00:15:05.380 of morality

00:15:06.400 on offer

00:15:07.340 in Abrahamic religion.

00:15:09.320 But of that,

00:15:10.120 more later.

00:15:11.720 In closing,

00:15:12.280 I'll just say that

00:15:12.880 what we are seeing

00:15:13.680 more and more,

00:15:14.900 especially in the Muslim world,

00:15:16.460 are the anti-social

00:15:18.400 consequences

00:15:19.340 of religious certainty.

00:15:21.800 We see

00:15:23.020 what should otherwise

00:15:24.300 be an unthinkable

00:15:25.280 psychological reality.

00:15:26.820 We see

00:15:27.160 well-educated people

00:15:28.820 with other opportunities,

00:15:30.960 often with families,

00:15:32.680 willing to blow

00:15:33.640 themselves up

00:15:34.580 and going to their deaths

00:15:36.540 in a spirit of jubilation.

00:15:39.060 Watch some of these videos.

00:15:41.080 See the smiles

00:15:42.020 on the faces

00:15:43.080 of people who are about

00:15:44.940 to blow themselves up.

00:15:47.280 Nothing in your life

00:15:48.600 has made you

00:15:49.740 this enthusiastic

00:15:50.840 in recent memory.

00:15:52.860 And this,

00:15:54.060 once again,

00:15:54.700 is the power of belief.

00:15:56.860 You might call it

00:15:57.520 the power of brainwashing

00:15:58.700 if you think

00:15:59.800 that these people

00:16:00.940 are on some level

00:16:01.620 victims

00:16:02.180 of propaganda.

00:16:04.240 Fine.

00:16:05.080 But to doubt

00:16:06.040 that they believe

00:16:07.680 what they say

00:16:08.240 they believe

00:16:08.780 makes absolutely

00:16:10.560 no sense

00:16:11.200 in these cases.

00:16:13.260 Back to the book.

00:16:14.920 Observations of this sort

00:16:15.940 pose an immediate problem

00:16:17.120 for us, however,

00:16:18.520 because criticizing

00:16:19.480 a person's faith

00:16:20.380 is currently taboo

00:16:21.460 in every corner

00:16:22.220 of our culture.

00:16:23.300 On this subject,

00:16:24.180 liberals and conservatives

00:16:25.080 have reached

00:16:25.620 a rare consensus.

00:16:27.540 Religious beliefs

00:16:28.180 are simply beyond

00:16:28.960 the scope

00:16:29.440 of rational discourse.

00:16:31.280 Criticizing a person's

00:16:32.160 ideas about God

00:16:33.120 and the afterlife

00:16:33.880 is thought to be

00:16:34.840 impolitic

00:16:35.600 in a way that

00:16:36.080 criticizing his ideas

00:16:37.080 about physics

00:16:37.740 or history is not.

00:16:39.360 And so it is

00:16:40.000 that when a Muslim

00:16:40.620 suicide bomber

00:16:41.520 obliterates himself

00:16:42.620 along with a score

00:16:43.660 of innocents

00:16:44.300 on a Jerusalem street,

00:16:45.880 the role that his faith

00:16:46.880 played in his actions

00:16:47.880 is invariably discounted.

00:16:49.960 His motives

00:16:50.440 must have been political,

00:16:51.780 economic,

00:16:52.420 or entirely personal.

00:16:54.100 Without faith,

00:16:55.040 desperate people

00:16:55.600 would still do

00:16:56.260 terrible things.

00:16:57.880 Faith itself

00:16:58.560 is always

00:16:59.180 and everywhere

00:16:59.920 exonerated.

00:17:01.260 But technology

00:17:01.960 has a way of creating

00:17:02.860 fresh moral imperatives.

00:17:05.100 Our technical advances

00:17:06.160 in the art of war

00:17:07.060 have finally rendered

00:17:08.420 our religious differences

00:17:09.420 and hence

00:17:10.280 our religious beliefs

00:17:11.360 antithetical

00:17:12.520 to our survival.

00:17:13.920 We can no longer

00:17:14.740 ignore the fact

00:17:15.580 that billions of our

00:17:16.600 neighbors believe

00:17:17.360 in the metaphysics

00:17:18.160 of martyrdom

00:17:18.820 or in the literal truth

00:17:20.380 of the book of Revelation

00:17:21.380 or in any of the other

00:17:22.800 fantastical notions

00:17:23.960 that have lurked

00:17:24.680 in the minds

00:17:25.220 of the faithful

00:17:25.820 for millennia

00:17:26.560 because our neighbors

00:17:27.920 are now armed

00:17:28.640 with chemical,

00:17:29.500 biological,

00:17:30.220 and nuclear weapons.

00:17:31.880 There is no doubt

00:17:32.500 that these developments

00:17:33.260 mark a terminal phase

00:17:34.540 of our credulity.

00:17:36.100 Words like God

00:17:37.040 and Allah

00:17:37.580 must go the way

00:17:38.880 of Apollo and Baal

00:17:40.120 or they will unmake

00:17:41.380 our world.

00:17:42.700 A few minutes spent

00:17:43.480 wandering the graveyard

00:17:44.560 of bad ideas

00:17:45.560 suggest that such

00:17:46.440 conceptual revolutions

00:17:47.580 are possible.

00:17:48.820 Consider the case

00:17:49.440 of alchemy.

00:17:50.200 It fascinated human beings

00:17:51.540 for over a thousand years

00:17:52.720 and yet anyone

00:17:53.680 who seriously claims

00:17:54.700 to be a practicing

00:17:55.520 alchemist today

00:17:56.560 will have disqualified

00:17:57.780 himself from most

00:17:58.760 positions of responsibility

00:17:59.900 in our society.

00:18:01.620 Faith-based religion

00:18:02.480 must suffer the same

00:18:03.360 slide into obsolescence.

00:18:04.900 What is the alternative

00:18:06.280 to religion

00:18:06.920 as we know it?

00:18:07.860 As it turns out

00:18:08.560 this is the wrong

00:18:09.160 question to ask.

00:18:10.580 Chemistry was not

00:18:11.320 an alternative

00:18:11.940 to alchemy.

00:18:13.260 It was a wholesale

00:18:14.060 exchange of ignorance

00:18:15.360 at its most rococo

00:18:16.540 for genuine knowledge.

00:18:18.740 We will find that

00:18:19.500 as with alchemy

00:18:20.280 to speak of alternatives

00:18:21.480 to religious faith

00:18:22.440 is to miss the point.

00:18:23.920 Of course people of faith

00:18:24.920 fall on a continuum.

00:18:26.380 Some draw solace

00:18:27.260 and inspiration

00:18:27.880 from a specific

00:18:28.700 spiritual tradition

00:18:29.780 and yet remain

00:18:30.900 fully committed

00:18:31.600 to tolerance

00:18:32.260 and diversity

00:18:32.880 while others

00:18:33.900 would burn the earth

00:18:34.840 to cinders

00:18:35.460 if it would put

00:18:35.940 an end to heresy.

00:18:37.220 There are in other words

00:18:38.200 religious moderates

00:18:39.260 and religious extremists

00:18:40.580 and their various

00:18:41.620 passions and projects

00:18:42.800 should not be confused.

00:18:44.380 One of the central themes

00:18:45.420 of this book however

00:18:46.260 is that religious moderates

00:18:47.580 are themselves

00:18:48.380 the bearers

00:18:49.160 of a terrible dogma.

00:18:50.860 They imagine

00:18:51.340 that the path

00:18:51.980 to peace

00:18:52.480 will be paved

00:18:53.240 once each of us

00:18:54.320 has learned

00:18:54.780 to respect

00:18:55.380 the unjustified

00:18:56.400 beliefs of others.

00:18:57.760 I hope to show

00:18:58.280 that the very ideal

00:18:59.300 of religious tolerance

00:19:00.340 born of the notion

00:19:01.480 that every human being

00:19:02.420 should be free

00:19:02.980 to believe whatever

00:19:03.660 he wants about God

00:19:04.920 is one of the principal

00:19:06.300 forces driving us

00:19:07.500 toward the abyss.

00:19:08.980 And this is where

00:19:09.580 I introduce

00:19:10.180 what is perhaps

00:19:11.340 the most controversial

00:19:12.420 point in the book.

00:19:13.960 This is where I implicate

00:19:15.280 so-called religious moderates

00:19:16.800 in the ongoing problem

00:19:18.760 of religious intolerance

00:19:20.940 and religious violence.

00:19:22.820 Needless to say

00:19:23.440 moderates are better

00:19:24.380 than fundamentalists.

00:19:25.380 If we could turn

00:19:26.040 all fundamentalists

00:19:27.660 into moderates

00:19:28.480 that would be great.

00:19:30.140 But moderates

00:19:31.020 because of the respect

00:19:32.640 they demand

00:19:33.460 for religion

00:19:34.620 and because of

00:19:35.640 their own confusion

00:19:36.640 about what it is

00:19:38.040 that fundamentalists

00:19:38.960 believe,

00:19:39.600 they prevent us

00:19:40.660 from criticizing

00:19:41.480 fundamentalism

00:19:42.740 or even noticing

00:19:43.820 its consequences

00:19:45.440 in the way

00:19:46.500 that we must.

00:19:47.400 And this is something

00:19:47.940 that I spell out

00:19:48.800 at greater length

00:19:49.520 soon.

00:19:50.760 We have been slow

00:19:51.940 to recognize

00:19:52.660 the degree to which

00:19:53.400 religious faith

00:19:54.160 perpetuates man's

00:19:55.420 inhumanity to man.

00:19:57.240 This is not surprising

00:19:58.220 since many of us

00:19:59.320 still believe

00:19:59.860 that faith

00:20:00.320 is an essential

00:20:00.980 component of human life.

00:20:02.700 Two myths

00:20:03.220 now keep faith

00:20:04.120 beyond the fray

00:20:05.000 of rational criticism

00:20:06.060 and they seem

00:20:06.980 to foster

00:20:07.440 religious extremism

00:20:08.560 and religious moderation

00:20:09.560 equally.

00:20:10.820 One,

00:20:11.520 most of us believe

00:20:12.360 that there are good things

00:20:13.360 that people get

00:20:14.040 from religious faith.

00:20:15.620 For example,

00:20:16.220 strong communities,

00:20:17.220 ethical behavior,

00:20:18.160 spiritual experience

00:20:19.100 that cannot be had

00:20:20.620 elsewhere.

00:20:21.700 Two,

00:20:22.800 many of us also believe

00:20:23.980 that the terrible things

00:20:24.980 sometimes done

00:20:25.760 in the name of religion

00:20:26.700 are the products

00:20:27.680 not of faith per se

00:20:29.060 but of our baser natures

00:20:30.920 forces like greed,

00:20:32.560 hatred,

00:20:32.940 and fear

00:20:33.360 for which religious beliefs

00:20:34.900 are themselves the best

00:20:36.320 or even the only remedy.

00:20:38.560 Taken together,

00:20:39.360 these myths seem

00:20:40.100 to have granted us

00:20:40.820 perfect immunity

00:20:41.700 to outbreaks of reasonableness

00:20:43.260 in our public discourse.

00:20:45.220 Many religious moderates

00:20:46.300 have taken the apparent

00:20:47.180 high road of pluralism,

00:20:49.120 asserting the equal validity

00:20:50.160 of all faiths,

00:20:51.520 but in doing so,

00:20:52.800 they neglect to notice

00:20:53.840 the irredeemably sectarian

00:20:55.540 truth claims of each.

00:20:57.080 As long as a Christian

00:20:57.920 believes that only

00:20:58.640 his baptized brethren

00:20:59.940 will be saved

00:21:00.600 on the day of judgment,

00:21:01.980 he cannot possibly

00:21:02.880 respect the beliefs

00:21:04.040 of others,

00:21:04.880 for he knows

00:21:05.540 that the flames of hell

00:21:06.700 have been stoked

00:21:07.440 by these very ideas

00:21:08.660 and await their adherence

00:21:10.420 even now.

00:21:11.700 Muslims and Jews

00:21:12.580 generally take the same

00:21:13.580 arrogant view

00:21:14.220 of their own enterprises

00:21:15.180 and have spent millennia

00:21:16.740 passionately reiterating

00:21:18.120 the errors of other faiths.

00:21:20.080 It should go without saying

00:21:20.960 that these rival belief systems

00:21:22.380 are all equally

00:21:23.500 uncontaminated by evidence,

00:21:25.840 and yet intellectuals

00:21:26.840 as diverse as H.G. Wells,

00:21:28.620 Albert Einstein,

00:21:29.720 Carl Jung,

00:21:30.660 Max Planck,

00:21:31.720 Freeman Dyson,

00:21:32.820 and Stephen Jay Gould

00:21:33.800 have declared the war

00:21:35.240 between reason and faith

00:21:36.460 to be long over.

00:21:37.880 On this view,

00:21:38.500 there is no need

00:21:39.120 to have all of our beliefs

00:21:40.220 about the universe

00:21:41.000 cohere.

00:21:42.060 A person can be

00:21:42.680 a God-fearing Christian

00:21:43.760 on Sunday

00:21:44.380 and a working scientist

00:21:45.660 come Monday morning

00:21:46.660 without ever having

00:21:47.420 to account for the partition

00:21:48.620 that seems to have erected

00:21:49.700 itself in his head

00:21:50.560 while he slept.

00:21:51.820 He can, as it were,

00:21:53.020 have his reason

00:21:53.800 and eat it, too.

00:21:55.300 As the early chapters

00:21:56.200 of this book

00:21:56.700 will illustrate,

00:21:57.940 it is only because

00:21:58.680 the Church has been

00:21:59.460 politically hobbled

00:22:00.500 in the West

00:22:01.140 that anyone can afford

00:22:02.480 to think this way.

00:22:03.820 In places where scholars

00:22:05.020 can still be stoned to death

00:22:06.440 for doubting the veracity

00:22:07.540 of the Quran,

00:22:08.900 Gould's notion of a

00:22:09.860 quote,

00:22:10.320 loving concordat

00:22:11.520 between faith and reason

00:22:12.900 would be perfectly delusional.

00:22:15.600 This is not to say

00:22:16.480 that the deepest concerns

00:22:17.540 of the faithful,

00:22:18.600 whether moderate or extreme,

00:22:20.220 are trivial

00:22:20.860 or even misguided.

00:22:22.780 There is no denying

00:22:23.600 that most of us

00:22:24.260 have emotional

00:22:24.800 and spiritual needs

00:22:25.780 that are now addressed,

00:22:27.180 however obliquely

00:22:28.060 and at a terrible price,

00:22:29.700 by mainstream religion.

00:22:31.300 And these are needs

00:22:32.040 that a mere understanding

00:22:33.280 of our world,

00:22:34.360 scientific or otherwise,

00:22:35.780 will never fulfill.

00:22:36.700 There is clearly

00:22:38.240 a sacred dimension

00:22:39.260 to our existence

00:22:40.020 and coming to terms

00:22:41.500 with it could well

00:22:42.160 be the highest purpose

00:22:43.240 of human life,

00:22:44.260 but we will find

00:22:44.940 that it requires

00:22:45.580 no faith

00:22:46.260 in untestable propositions.

00:22:48.120 Jesus was born

00:22:48.860 of a virgin.

00:22:49.620 The Quran is the word of God

00:22:51.060 for us to do this.

00:22:53.300 And so here I begin

00:22:54.320 to touch on a theme

00:22:56.040 which is brought out

00:22:57.680 more later in the book

00:22:58.860 but also most fully

00:23:00.380 in my recent book

00:23:02.020 Waking Up,

00:23:03.220 that there are

00:23:03.840 rational approaches

00:23:05.240 to, quote,

00:23:05.760 spiritual experience.

00:23:07.640 I do think

00:23:08.900 finding a rational basis

00:23:11.620 for ethics

00:23:12.380 and finding a rational basis

00:23:14.100 for a contemplative life

00:23:16.120 is an extremely

00:23:17.720 important project

00:23:18.720 and on many levels

00:23:20.520 the most important project

00:23:22.880 for any individual

00:23:24.320 to engage.

00:23:25.260 The Myth of Moderation

00:23:27.000 in Religion

00:23:27.620 The idea that any one

00:23:29.520 of our religions

00:23:30.200 represents the infallible

00:23:31.820 word of the one true God

00:23:33.520 requires an encyclopedic

00:23:35.500 ignorance of history,

00:23:36.740 mythology,

00:23:37.360 and art

00:23:37.760 to even be entertained

00:23:39.280 as the beliefs,

00:23:40.860 rituals,

00:23:41.340 and iconography

00:23:42.040 of each of our religions

00:23:43.120 attest to centuries

00:23:44.440 of cross-pollination

00:23:45.600 among them.

00:23:46.940 Whatever their imagined source,

00:23:49.020 the doctrines

00:23:49.600 of modern religions

00:23:50.460 are no more tenable

00:23:51.440 than those which,

00:23:52.420 for lack of adherence,

00:23:53.420 were cast upon the scrap heap

00:23:55.100 of mythology

00:23:55.760 millennia ago.

00:23:57.180 For there is no more

00:23:57.860 evidence to justify

00:23:58.780 a belief in the literal

00:23:59.820 existence of Yahweh

00:24:00.940 and Satan

00:24:01.540 than there was to keep

00:24:02.700 Zeus perched upon

00:24:03.760 his mountain throne

00:24:04.740 or Poseidon

00:24:06.040 churning the seas.

00:24:07.580 According to Gallup,

00:24:09.140 35% of Americans

00:24:10.520 believe that the Bible

00:24:11.480 is the literal

00:24:12.140 and inerrant word

00:24:13.080 of the creator

00:24:13.580 of the universe.

00:24:14.980 Another 48%

00:24:16.040 believe that it is,

00:24:16.980 quote,

00:24:17.140 the inspired word

00:24:18.200 of the same.

00:24:18.740 still inerrant,

00:24:20.620 though certain

00:24:21.100 of its passages

00:24:21.740 must be interpreted

00:24:22.620 symbolically

00:24:23.460 before their truth

00:24:24.420 can be brought to light.

00:24:26.020 Only 17% of us

00:24:27.600 remain to doubt

00:24:28.500 that a personal God

00:24:29.720 in his infinite wisdom

00:24:31.400 is likely to have

00:24:32.620 authored this text

00:24:33.660 or, for that matter,

00:24:35.080 to have created the earth

00:24:36.160 with its 250,000

00:24:38.060 species of beetles.

00:24:39.940 Some 46% of Americans

00:24:41.600 take a literalist

00:24:42.780 view of creation

00:24:43.660 and 40% believe

00:24:45.360 that God

00:24:45.780 has guided creation

00:24:46.900 over the course

00:24:47.500 of millions of years.

00:24:48.740 This means that

00:24:49.860 120 million of us

00:24:51.760 place the Big Bang

00:24:53.460 2,500 years

00:24:54.980 after the Babylonians

00:24:56.700 and Sumerians

00:24:57.560 learned to brew beer.

00:24:59.440 If our polls

00:25:00.140 are to be trusted,

00:25:01.520 nearly 230 million Americans

00:25:03.740 believe that a book

00:25:04.740 showing neither unity

00:25:06.180 of style

00:25:06.860 nor internal consistency

00:25:08.500 was authored

00:25:09.480 by an omniscient,

00:25:10.700 omnipotent,

00:25:11.720 and omnipresent deity.

00:25:13.740 A survey of Hindus,

00:25:15.080 Muslims,

00:25:15.580 and Jews

00:25:16.020 around the world

00:25:16.780 would surely yield

00:25:17.840 similar results.

00:25:19.240 revealing that we,

00:25:20.200 as a species,

00:25:21.160 have grown almost

00:25:21.880 perfectly intoxicated

00:25:23.340 by our myths.

00:25:24.700 How is it that in this

00:25:25.660 one area of our lives

00:25:26.920 we have convinced

00:25:27.600 ourselves that our

00:25:28.500 beliefs about the world

00:25:29.520 can float entirely free

00:25:31.260 of reason and evidence?

00:25:33.140 Now, I should say

00:25:34.000 that the numbers

00:25:34.660 have grown

00:25:35.880 slightly more favorable,

00:25:38.080 at least in the U.S.,

00:25:39.260 in the intervening years.

00:25:40.400 So, I wrote this

00:25:41.200 13, 14 years ago,

00:25:43.320 it was published

00:25:43.880 12 years ago

00:25:45.040 in 2004.

00:25:46.780 I would say that

00:25:47.400 based on recent polls,

00:25:48.700 we've gained about

00:25:49.620 10% in the direction

00:25:51.280 of reason,

00:25:52.560 but the general picture

00:25:54.060 is the same,

00:25:55.280 where you have

00:25:56.040 vast numbers,

00:25:58.260 literally

00:25:58.600 more than 100 million,

00:26:00.700 claiming to believe

00:26:01.740 the unbelievable.

00:26:03.180 Now, as to whether

00:26:03.720 there's much distance

00:26:04.600 between what people claim

00:26:06.220 and what they actually

00:26:07.000 believe,

00:26:07.500 that is a topic

00:26:08.740 of real interest

00:26:09.840 and consequence

00:26:10.440 and genuine debate.

00:26:11.740 Surely there is

00:26:12.320 some difference there,

00:26:13.240 but what is also clear

00:26:14.520 is that even if we

00:26:16.160 cut these numbers

00:26:16.800 in half,

00:26:17.780 we have vast numbers

00:26:18.780 of people,

00:26:19.460 even in the U.S.,

00:26:20.780 in the year 2016,

00:26:22.800 believing patently

00:26:24.460 absurd things

00:26:25.660 about the origin

00:26:26.500 of the Bible,

00:26:28.020 and therefore about

00:26:28.740 the moral order

00:26:29.660 of the universe.

00:26:31.360 Back to the book.

00:26:32.440 It is with respect

00:26:33.600 to this rather surprising

00:26:34.960 cognitive scenery

00:26:36.060 that we must decide

00:26:37.200 what it means

00:26:37.840 to be a, quote,

00:26:38.580 religious moderate

00:26:39.380 in the 21st century.

00:26:41.000 Moderates in every faith

00:26:42.120 are obliged to loosely

00:26:43.380 interpret,

00:26:44.240 or simply ignore,

00:26:45.660 much of their canons

00:26:46.780 in the interest

00:26:47.600 of living in the modern world.

00:26:49.260 No doubt an obscure

00:26:50.100 truth of economics

00:26:51.160 is at work here.

00:26:52.380 Societies become

00:26:53.140 considerably less productive

00:26:54.480 whenever large numbers

00:26:55.820 of people stop

00:26:56.580 making widgets

00:26:57.260 and begin killing

00:26:58.280 their customers

00:26:58.960 and creditors

00:26:59.760 for heresy.

00:27:01.000 The first thing

00:27:01.460 to observe about

00:27:02.140 the moderate's retreat

00:27:03.240 from scriptural literalism

00:27:04.580 is that it draws

00:27:05.400 its inspiration

00:27:06.120 not from scripture,

00:27:07.900 but from cultural developments

00:27:09.180 that have rendered

00:27:09.820 many of God's utterances

00:27:11.240 difficult to accept

00:27:12.420 as written.

00:27:13.600 In America,

00:27:14.840 religious moderation

00:27:15.480 is further enforced

00:27:16.540 by the fact

00:27:17.080 that most Christians

00:27:17.940 and Jews

00:27:18.560 do not read the Bible

00:27:19.860 in its entirety,

00:27:21.100 and consequently

00:27:21.680 have no idea

00:27:22.640 just how vigorously

00:27:23.740 the God of Abraham

00:27:24.720 wants heresy expunged.

00:27:27.140 One look at the book

00:27:28.200 of Deuteronomy

00:27:28.920 reveals that he has

00:27:29.720 something very specific

00:27:30.740 in mind.

00:27:31.280 Should your son or daughter

00:27:32.640 return from yoga class

00:27:33.940 advocating the worship

00:27:35.300 of Krishna?

00:27:36.560 And this is from

00:27:37.080 Deuteronomy

00:27:37.680 chapter 13

00:27:39.240 verses 7 through 11.

00:27:40.800 If your brother,

00:27:42.280 the son of your father

00:27:43.260 or of your mother,

00:27:44.620 or your son or daughter,

00:27:46.500 or the spouse

00:27:47.340 whom you embrace,

00:27:48.880 or your most intimate friend,

00:27:50.800 tries to secretly seduce you,

00:27:52.940 saying,

00:27:53.440 Let us go serve

00:27:54.220 other gods,

00:27:55.320 unknown to you

00:27:56.220 or your ancestors

00:27:57.020 before you,

00:27:58.260 gods of the people

00:27:59.100 surrounding you,

00:28:00.200 whether near you

00:28:01.000 or far away,

00:28:02.280 anywhere throughout

00:28:03.140 the world.

00:28:04.400 You must not consent.

00:28:06.220 You must not listen to him.

00:28:07.980 You must show him no pity.

00:28:09.980 You must not spare him

00:28:11.280 or conceal his guilt.

00:28:13.280 No, you must kill him.

00:28:15.320 Your hand must strike

00:28:16.720 the first blow

00:28:17.560 in putting him to death

00:28:18.760 and the hands of the rest

00:28:20.280 of the people following.

00:28:21.860 You must stone him to death

00:28:23.700 since he is trying

00:28:24.700 to divert you

00:28:25.420 from Yahweh,

00:28:26.440 your God.

00:28:28.200 Okay.

00:28:29.100 Well, that's about

00:28:30.400 as clear an injunction

00:28:32.360 as is possible to write.

00:28:35.580 There is no metaphor there.

00:28:38.080 This is not allegory.

00:28:39.800 This is a direct command

00:28:41.720 to kill people

00:28:43.380 for any semblance

00:28:46.240 of religious diversity.

00:28:48.440 If someone suggests to you

00:28:50.280 that you should be practicing

00:28:51.980 a religion

00:28:52.760 other than the one true one

00:28:54.880 you happen to have in hand,

00:28:56.780 in this case, Judaism,

00:28:59.100 or some variant

00:29:00.360 of Christianity,

00:29:01.820 you should kill him

00:29:03.220 and you must be

00:29:03.900 the first to kill him.

00:29:05.740 And as is spelled out

00:29:07.180 elsewhere,

00:29:08.660 if you're reluctant

00:29:09.940 to do this,

00:29:10.580 your neighbors

00:29:11.060 should kill you.

00:29:12.440 So, this is the sort of

00:29:13.880 behavior we're seeing

00:29:15.440 among not Christians

00:29:17.400 for the most part,

00:29:18.440 though you can get

00:29:19.240 Christians in Africa

00:29:20.420 at the moment

00:29:21.240 killing homosexuals,

00:29:22.100 very much in the spirit

00:29:24.380 of this sort of text.

00:29:25.640 But, when you consider

00:29:26.800 a group like

00:29:27.480 the Islamic State,

00:29:28.900 this is the sort of

00:29:29.980 literalism

00:29:30.780 to which they are committed.

00:29:32.900 And analogous passages,

00:29:34.480 obviously,

00:29:35.400 exist in the Quran,

00:29:36.980 as we will see.

00:29:38.460 But, as I've often said,

00:29:40.460 the Old Testament

00:29:41.200 of the Bible

00:29:41.840 is the worst

00:29:43.220 of the worst

00:29:44.080 when it comes to

00:29:45.600 precise injunctions

00:29:47.300 to kill people

00:29:48.120 for thought crimes.

00:29:50.100 It's only by

00:29:51.320 a loophole in Judaism

00:29:52.660 that Jews don't

00:29:54.800 consider this

00:29:55.760 an actionable

00:29:56.460 doctrine now.

00:29:58.040 The Messiah

00:29:58.620 has not yet returned,

00:30:00.080 the temple

00:30:00.540 has not been rebuilt,

00:30:02.100 a Sanhedrin

00:30:02.940 has not been reconvened,

00:30:04.920 which is a body

00:30:05.580 of elders

00:30:06.020 that can judge

00:30:07.240 cases of this kind,

00:30:09.220 in this case,

00:30:10.340 a case of heresy.

00:30:11.760 But, once all that

00:30:12.820 happens,

00:30:13.920 the Ultra-Orthodox

00:30:14.780 believe that this

00:30:15.720 is how

00:30:16.460 we should live.

00:30:18.120 And any Jew

00:30:19.080 who tells you

00:30:19.740 otherwise

00:30:20.200 is either ignorant

00:30:21.960 or lying to you.

00:30:23.960 So,

00:30:24.760 it is by theological

00:30:26.180 and historical accident,

00:30:28.060 not the internal

00:30:29.380 moral resources

00:30:30.920 of the tradition

00:30:31.820 of Judaism,

00:30:32.760 that we are not

00:30:33.860 seeing barbaric Jews

00:30:36.060 murdering their neighbors

00:30:37.460 for religious offenses.

00:30:39.460 And it is by

00:30:40.460 extraordinarily

00:30:41.740 unhappy accidents

00:30:43.100 of theology

00:30:43.800 that we are

00:30:45.000 seeing this

00:30:45.780 among Muslims

00:30:46.960 worldwide.

00:30:48.020 worldwide.

00:30:48.840 And this is a

00:30:49.440 difference,

00:30:50.140 again,

00:30:51.120 that we have

00:30:52.780 to learn

00:30:53.200 to talk about

00:30:53.900 honestly.

00:30:55.180 Back to the book.

00:30:56.820 While the stoning

00:30:57.740 of children

00:30:58.280 for heresy

00:30:58.900 has fallen out

00:30:59.560 of fashion

00:31:00.020 in our country,

00:31:01.120 you will not hear

00:31:01.900 a moderate Christian

00:31:02.900 or Jew

00:31:03.420 arguing for a

00:31:04.560 quote,

00:31:04.980 symbolic reading

00:31:06.000 of passages

00:31:06.580 of this sort.

00:31:07.520 In fact,

00:31:07.920 one seems to be

00:31:08.560 explicitly blocked

00:31:09.560 by God himself

00:31:10.580 in Deuteronomy 13,

00:31:12.540 verse 1.

00:31:13.940 Quote,

00:31:14.280 whatever I am

00:31:15.200 now commanding

00:31:16.000 you,

00:31:16.500 you must keep

00:31:17.140 and observe,

00:31:18.300 adding nothing

00:31:18.940 to it,

00:31:19.900 taking nothing

00:31:20.500 away.

00:31:21.600 End quote.

00:31:22.680 The above passage

00:31:23.620 is as canonical

00:31:24.700 as any in the Bible,

00:31:26.360 and it is only

00:31:27.000 by ignoring

00:31:27.660 such barbarisms

00:31:28.640 that the good book

00:31:29.480 can be reconciled

00:31:30.480 with life

00:31:30.940 in the modern world.

00:31:32.340 This is a problem

00:31:33.220 for moderation

00:31:33.900 in religion.

00:31:35.000 It has nothing

00:31:35.560 underwriting it

00:31:36.320 other than

00:31:36.720 the unacknowledged

00:31:37.660 neglect

00:31:38.060 of the letter

00:31:39.100 of divine law.

00:31:40.420 The only reason

00:31:41.180 that anyone

00:31:41.640 is quote,

00:31:42.160 moderate

00:31:42.600 in matters

00:31:43.220 of faith

00:31:43.700 these days

00:31:44.300 is that he

00:31:44.760 has assimilated

00:31:45.460 some of the fruits

00:31:46.300 of the last

00:31:46.780 2,000 years

00:31:47.740 of human thought.

00:31:48.940 Democratic politics,

00:31:50.440 scientific advancement

00:31:51.360 on every front,

00:31:52.540 concern for human rights,

00:31:54.160 an end to cultural

00:31:55.160 and geographic isolation,

00:31:56.740 etc.

00:31:57.560 The doors leading

00:31:58.300 out of scriptural

00:31:59.300 literalism do not

00:32:00.340 open from the inside.

00:32:02.720 The moderation

00:32:03.260 we see among

00:32:04.020 non-fundamentalists

00:32:05.020 is not some sign

00:32:06.300 that faith itself

00:32:07.440 has evolved.

00:32:08.600 It is, rather,

00:32:09.620 the product

00:32:10.140 of the many

00:32:10.720 hammer blows

00:32:11.500 of modernity

00:32:12.280 that have exposed

00:32:13.220 certain tenets

00:32:14.040 of faith

00:32:14.540 to doubt.

00:32:16.000 Not the least

00:32:16.540 among these

00:32:16.920 developments

00:32:17.360 has been the

00:32:17.900 emergence of

00:32:18.460 our tendency

00:32:18.960 to value evidence

00:32:20.000 and to be convinced

00:32:20.940 by a proposition

00:32:21.720 to the degree

00:32:22.700 that there is

00:32:23.140 evidence for it.

00:32:24.660 Even most

00:32:25.280 fundamentalists

00:32:26.040 live by the

00:32:26.680 lights of reason

00:32:27.380 in this regard.

00:32:28.420 It is just

00:32:28.840 that their minds

00:32:29.460 seem to have

00:32:29.920 been partitioned

00:32:30.840 to accommodate

00:32:31.400 the profligate

00:32:32.220 truth claims

00:32:32.840 of their faith.

00:32:34.240 Tell a devout

00:32:34.860 Christian that his

00:32:35.500 wife is cheating

00:32:36.200 on him

00:32:36.640 or that frozen

00:32:37.520 yogurt can make

00:32:38.280 a man invisible

00:32:39.080 and he is likely

00:32:40.140 to require as

00:32:40.880 much evidence

00:32:41.440 as anyone else

00:32:42.200 and to be persuaded

00:32:43.460 only to the extent

00:32:44.440 that you give it.

00:32:45.660 Tell him that the book

00:32:46.360 that he keeps by his bed

00:32:47.520 was written by an

00:32:48.280 invisible deity

00:32:49.140 who will punish him

00:32:50.340 with fire for eternity

00:32:51.680 if he fails to accept

00:32:53.000 its every incredible

00:32:53.960 claim about the universe

00:32:55.100 and he seems to require

00:32:56.700 no evidence whatsoever.

00:32:58.780 Religious moderation

00:32:59.560 springs from the fact

00:33:00.680 that even the least

00:33:01.560 educated person

00:33:02.540 among us

00:33:03.140 simply knows more

00:33:04.720 about certain matters

00:33:05.620 than anyone did

00:33:06.520 two thousand years ago

00:33:07.580 and much of this

00:33:08.560 knowledge is incompatible

00:33:09.880 with scripture.

00:33:11.140 Having heard something

00:33:11.920 about the medical

00:33:12.580 discoveries of the

00:33:13.460 last hundred years

00:33:14.460 most of us no longer

00:33:15.720 equate disease processes

00:33:17.120 with sin or demonic

00:33:18.540 possession.

00:33:19.840 Having learned about

00:33:20.620 the known distances

00:33:21.560 between objects

00:33:22.500 in our universe

00:33:23.220 most of us

00:33:24.220 about half of us

00:33:25.340 actually

00:33:25.700 find the idea

00:33:26.680 that the whole works

00:33:27.600 was created

00:33:28.080 six thousand years ago

00:33:29.320 with light from

00:33:30.400 distant stars

00:33:31.240 already in transit

00:33:32.300 toward the earth

00:33:33.020 impossible to take

00:33:34.400 seriously.

00:33:35.420 Such concessions

00:33:36.240 to modernity

00:33:36.980 do not in the least

00:33:37.860 suggest that faith

00:33:38.880 is compatible

00:33:39.600 with reason

00:33:40.260 or that our

00:33:41.060 religions are in

00:33:41.860 principle open

00:33:42.640 to new learning.

00:33:43.840 It's just that the

00:33:44.360 utility of ignoring

00:33:45.480 or quote

00:33:46.360 reinterpreting

00:33:47.280 certain articles

00:33:48.160 of faith

00:33:48.620 is now overwhelming.

00:33:50.980 Anyone being flown

00:33:52.280 to a distant city

00:33:53.300 for heart bypass

00:33:54.200 surgery

00:33:54.780 has conceded

00:33:56.020 tacitly at least

00:33:57.280 that we have learned

00:33:58.140 a few things

00:33:58.660 about physics

00:33:59.380 geography

00:34:00.060 engineering

00:34:00.880 and medicine

00:34:01.580 since the time

00:34:02.520 of Moses.

00:34:03.600 So it's not that

00:34:04.240 these texts have

00:34:04.980 maintained their

00:34:05.740 integrity over time

00:34:07.020 they haven't.

00:34:08.560 It's just that

00:34:08.980 they've been

00:34:09.260 effectively edited

00:34:10.240 by our neglect

00:34:11.000 of certain

00:34:11.620 of their passages.

00:34:12.980 Most of what

00:34:13.540 remains

00:34:14.040 the quote

00:34:15.160 good parts

00:34:15.960 has been spared

00:34:17.240 the same winnowing

00:34:18.380 because we don't

00:34:19.200 have a truly

00:34:19.680 modern understanding

00:34:20.780 of our ethical

00:34:21.420 intuitions

00:34:22.060 and our capacity

00:34:23.020 for spiritual

00:34:23.660 experience.

00:34:24.600 If we better

00:34:25.220 understood the

00:34:25.920 workings of the

00:34:26.440 human brain

00:34:27.020 we would undoubtedly

00:34:28.120 discover lawful

00:34:29.180 connections between

00:34:29.960 our states of

00:34:30.620 consciousness

00:34:31.080 our modes of

00:34:32.220 conduct

00:34:32.720 and the various

00:34:33.580 ways we use

00:34:34.340 our attention.

00:34:34.900 What makes

00:34:35.920 one person

00:34:36.440 happier than

00:34:37.100 another?

00:34:38.040 Why is love

00:34:38.880 more conducive

00:34:39.540 to happiness

00:34:40.040 than hate?

00:34:41.360 Why do we

00:34:41.840 generally prefer

00:34:42.560 beauty to

00:34:43.220 ugliness

00:34:43.720 and order

00:34:44.440 to chaos?

00:34:45.620 Why does it

00:34:46.120 feel so good

00:34:46.800 to smile

00:34:47.420 and laugh?

00:34:48.380 And why do

00:34:48.840 these shared

00:34:49.360 experiences

00:34:49.960 generally bring

00:34:50.700 people closer

00:34:51.300 together?

00:34:52.280 Is the ego

00:34:52.940 an illusion?

00:34:53.980 And if so

00:34:54.720 what implications

00:34:55.700 does this have

00:34:56.460 for human life?

00:34:57.740 Is there life

00:34:58.340 after death?

00:34:59.620 These are ultimately

00:35:00.340 questions for a

00:35:01.140 mature science

00:35:02.020 science of the

00:35:02.280 mind.

00:35:03.140 If we ever

00:35:03.680 develop such

00:35:04.300 a science

00:35:04.860 most of our

00:35:05.880 religious texts

00:35:06.540 will be no more

00:35:07.160 useful to mystics

00:35:08.260 than they now

00:35:08.940 are to astronomers

00:35:09.840 and again this is a

00:35:11.820 claim that I stand

00:35:12.820 behind.

00:35:13.760 The only reason

00:35:15.080 why these books

00:35:15.820 have any integrity

00:35:16.980 left in them

00:35:17.800 apart from the

00:35:18.840 occasional example

00:35:19.640 of good writing

00:35:20.420 is that we

00:35:21.840 haven't had

00:35:22.360 fundamental

00:35:22.940 breakthroughs

00:35:23.740 in a rational

00:35:24.640 scientific context

00:35:25.900 based on

00:35:27.180 ethics

00:35:28.200 and spiritual

00:35:29.320 experience.

00:35:30.880 And insofar as

00:35:31.460 we do

00:35:31.900 the change

00:35:33.000 you will see

00:35:33.680 in our

00:35:34.240 conversation

00:35:34.840 will be

00:35:36.020 exactly

00:35:36.560 analogous

00:35:37.420 to what

00:35:38.080 has happened

00:35:38.620 in the area

00:35:39.600 of medicine

00:35:40.160 or to questions

00:35:41.180 of cosmology.

00:35:42.480 If you're

00:35:43.180 an astronomer

00:35:43.900 looking to the

00:35:45.080 Bible or the

00:35:45.720 Quran for guidance

00:35:46.880 about how to

00:35:47.720 think

00:35:48.060 in fact you are

00:35:49.260 not an

00:35:49.880 astronomer.

00:35:50.780 And the same

00:35:51.240 will be true

00:35:51.760 for what I'm

00:35:52.240 calling here a

00:35:52.980 mystic

00:35:53.440 or a

00:35:53.980 contemplative

00:35:54.620 someone who

00:35:55.420 cares to

00:35:56.060 explore in

00:35:56.700 the laboratory

00:35:57.200 of his own

00:35:57.880 mind

00:35:58.320 the deepest

00:35:59.540 experiences

00:36:00.760 available

00:36:01.320 based on

00:36:02.080 how he

00:36:02.500 uses his

00:36:03.020 attention.

00:36:04.020 And the

00:36:04.240 more we

00:36:04.540 understand

00:36:04.940 about the

00:36:05.260 human mind

00:36:05.840 the more

00:36:06.980 technology

00:36:07.820 intrudes

00:36:08.620 upon it

00:36:09.400 the less

00:36:10.440 sane and

00:36:11.120 rational people

00:36:11.980 will fixate

00:36:13.120 on these

00:36:13.640 books.

00:36:14.540 Now back

00:36:15.340 to the

00:36:15.580 book.

00:36:16.640 While

00:36:17.200 moderation

00:36:17.720 in religion

00:36:18.240 may seem

00:36:18.660 a reasonable

00:36:19.200 position to

00:36:19.860 stake out

00:36:20.440 in light of

00:36:21.080 all that we

00:36:21.460 have and

00:36:22.120 have not

00:36:22.660 learned about

00:36:23.340 the universe

00:36:23.840 it offers

00:36:25.000 no

00:36:25.360 bulwark

00:36:26.000 against

00:36:26.540 religious

00:36:26.940 extremism

00:36:27.680 and

00:36:27.900 religious

00:36:28.260 violence.

00:36:29.240 From the

00:36:29.560 perspective of

00:36:30.200 those seeking

00:36:30.820 to live by

00:36:31.460 the letter

00:36:31.880 of the

00:36:32.200 texts

00:36:32.640 the religious

00:36:33.420 moderate is

00:36:34.340 nothing more

00:36:34.800 than a

00:36:35.120 failed

00:36:35.460 fundamentalist.

00:36:36.880 He is in

00:36:37.360 all likelihood

00:36:37.940 going to

00:36:38.460 wind up in

00:36:39.020 hell with

00:36:39.480 the rest

00:36:39.860 of the

00:36:40.100 unbelievers.

00:36:41.200 The problem

00:36:41.640 that religious

00:36:42.100 moderation

00:36:42.480 poses for

00:36:43.280 all of us

00:36:43.880 is that it

00:36:44.660 does not

00:36:44.980 permit anything

00:36:45.620 very critical

00:36:46.360 to be said

00:36:47.000 about religious

00:36:47.640 literalism.

00:36:48.660 We cannot

00:36:48.940 say that

00:36:49.480 fundamentalists

00:36:50.160 are crazy

00:36:50.720 because they're

00:36:51.420 merely practicing

00:36:52.260 their freedom

00:36:52.860 of belief.

00:36:53.420 we cannot

00:36:54.080 even say

00:36:54.520 that they're

00:36:54.820 mistaken in

00:36:55.620 religious terms

00:36:56.440 because their

00:36:57.440 knowledge of

00:36:57.960 scripture is

00:36:58.460 generally

00:36:58.840 unrivaled.

00:37:00.220 All we can

00:37:00.660 say as

00:37:01.060 religious

00:37:01.380 moderates

00:37:01.940 is that we

00:37:02.380 don't like

00:37:02.660 the personal

00:37:03.240 and social

00:37:03.800 costs that

00:37:04.740 a full

00:37:05.160 embrace of

00:37:05.820 scripture imposes

00:37:06.680 on us.

00:37:07.460 This is not a

00:37:08.320 new form of

00:37:09.220 faith or even

00:37:10.120 a new species

00:37:10.940 of scriptural

00:37:11.880 exegesis.

00:37:12.920 It is simply

00:37:13.480 a capitulation

00:37:14.300 to a variety

00:37:15.340 of all too

00:37:16.040 human interests

00:37:16.920 that have

00:37:17.580 nothing in

00:37:18.180 principle to

00:37:19.120 do with

00:37:19.540 God.

00:37:19.920 Religious

00:37:20.860 moderation

00:37:21.220 is the

00:37:21.700 product of

00:37:22.300 secular

00:37:22.860 knowledge

00:37:23.440 and

00:37:23.760 scriptural

00:37:24.380 ignorance

00:37:24.820 and it

00:37:25.720 has no

00:37:26.100 bona fides

00:37:26.740 in religious

00:37:27.540 terms to

00:37:28.340 put it on

00:37:28.800 par with

00:37:29.360 fundamentalism.

00:37:30.640 Perhaps I

00:37:31.080 should say

00:37:31.340 that again

00:37:31.760 because this

00:37:32.220 is an

00:37:32.420 important

00:37:32.680 point.

00:37:33.680 Religious

00:37:34.000 moderation

00:37:34.400 is the

00:37:35.300 product of

00:37:36.120 secular

00:37:36.940 knowledge

00:37:37.800 and

00:37:38.760 scriptural

00:37:39.440 ignorance.

00:37:40.880 It is by

00:37:41.880 knowing more

00:37:42.760 and more

00:37:43.260 about things

00:37:44.080 beyond religion

00:37:45.080 and knowing

00:37:46.320 less and

00:37:46.940 less ultimately

00:37:47.920 about the

00:37:48.960 details of

00:37:49.900 one's own

00:37:50.360 religion

00:37:50.760 that one

00:37:51.640 becomes a

00:37:52.280 religious

00:37:52.600 moderate.

00:37:53.720 That by

00:37:55.060 definition

00:37:55.900 renders

00:37:57.040 religious

00:37:57.460 moderation

00:37:58.080 unconvincing

00:37:59.660 to a

00:38:00.400 fundamentalist

00:38:01.180 and intellectually

00:38:02.560 dishonest

00:38:03.420 to an

00:38:04.360 atheist

00:38:04.700 because the

00:38:06.280 moderate

00:38:06.600 doesn't

00:38:07.220 acknowledge

00:38:07.940 the origins

00:38:09.220 of this

00:38:09.720 transformation

00:38:10.260 in his

00:38:11.120 or her

00:38:11.360 thinking.

00:38:12.260 The

00:38:12.500 moderate

00:38:12.840 pretends

00:38:13.760 that this

00:38:14.780 is somehow

00:38:15.160 coming from

00:38:15.880 the tradition

00:38:16.420 itself.

00:38:17.520 That it's

00:38:17.800 the resources

00:38:18.500 internal to

00:38:19.600 Judaism or

00:38:20.540 Christianity or

00:38:21.480 Islam that

00:38:22.480 have allowed

00:38:23.080 for this

00:38:23.600 moderation.

00:38:25.200 No.

00:38:26.020 Go back to

00:38:26.620 Deuteronomy

00:38:27.220 now or a

00:38:28.460 thousand years

00:38:29.140 from now and

00:38:30.140 you will find

00:38:30.740 that same

00:38:31.480 passage demanding

00:38:33.220 that you kill

00:38:34.480 your daughter if

00:38:36.000 she joins the

00:38:36.780 Hare Krishnas.

00:38:38.140 Back to the

00:38:39.060 book.

00:38:40.100 The texts

00:38:40.660 themselves are

00:38:41.560 unequivocal.

00:38:42.720 They are

00:38:42.920 perfect in

00:38:43.560 all their

00:38:44.000 parts.

00:38:45.240 By their

00:38:45.540 light,

00:38:45.880 religious

00:38:46.100 moderation

00:38:46.460 appears to

00:38:47.040 be nothing

00:38:47.360 more than

00:38:47.820 an unwillingness

00:38:48.660 to fully

00:38:49.160 submit to

00:38:49.800 God's

00:38:50.240 law.

00:38:51.220 By failing

00:38:51.700 to live

00:38:52.140 by the

00:38:52.480 letter of

00:38:52.840 the texts

00:38:53.400 while tolerating

00:38:54.500 the irrationality

00:38:55.360 of those

00:38:55.680 who do,

00:38:56.560 religious

00:38:56.840 moderates

00:38:57.340 betray

00:38:57.780 faith and

00:38:58.500 reason

00:38:58.880 equally.

00:39:00.140 Unless the

00:39:00.580 core dogmas

00:39:01.540 of faith

00:39:02.020 are called

00:39:02.540 into question,

00:39:03.640 that is,

00:39:04.040 that we know

00:39:04.440 there is a

00:39:04.940 God and

00:39:05.760 that we know

00:39:06.180 what he

00:39:06.440 wants from

00:39:06.920 us,

00:39:07.740 religious

00:39:08.040 moderation

00:39:08.440 will do

00:39:08.940 nothing to

00:39:09.560 lead us out

00:39:10.140 of the

00:39:10.360 wilderness.

00:39:11.340 The benignity

00:39:12.100 of most

00:39:12.580 religious

00:39:12.940 moderates

00:39:13.460 does not

00:39:14.100 suggest that

00:39:14.660 religious faith

00:39:15.260 is anything

00:39:15.820 more sublime

00:39:16.720 than a

00:39:17.440 desperate

00:39:17.820 marriage of

00:39:18.800 hope and

00:39:19.420 ignorance.

00:39:20.480 Nor does it

00:39:21.080 guarantee that

00:39:21.720 there is not

00:39:22.120 a terrible

00:39:22.760 price to be

00:39:23.500 paid for

00:39:24.300 limiting the

00:39:24.920 scope of

00:39:25.480 reason in

00:39:26.360 our dealings

00:39:27.040 with other

00:39:27.400 human beings.

00:39:28.900 Religious

00:39:29.200 moderation,

00:39:29.920 insofar as it

00:39:30.580 represents an

00:39:31.120 attempt to

00:39:31.580 hold on to

00:39:32.260 what is still

00:39:32.840 serviceable in

00:39:34.060 orthodox religion,

00:39:35.420 closes the door

00:39:36.120 to more

00:39:36.540 sophisticated

00:39:37.100 approaches to

00:39:37.980 spirituality,

00:39:39.000 ethics,

00:39:39.660 and the

00:39:39.980 building of

00:39:40.460 strong

00:39:40.780 communities.

00:39:42.080 Religious

00:39:42.440 moderates seem

00:39:43.140 to believe that

00:39:43.680 what we need

00:39:44.280 is not radical

00:39:45.200 insight and

00:39:45.900 innovation in

00:39:46.640 these areas,

00:39:47.460 but a mere

00:39:48.240 dilution of

00:39:49.640 Iron Age

00:39:50.240 philosophy.

00:39:51.520 Rather than

00:39:52.080 bring the full

00:39:52.780 force of our

00:39:53.560 creativity and

00:39:54.460 rationality to

00:39:55.340 bear on

00:39:55.960 problems of

00:39:56.600 ethics,

00:39:57.560 social cohesion,

00:39:58.840 and even

00:39:59.240 spiritual experience,

00:40:01.220 moderates merely

00:40:01.900 ask that we

00:40:02.640 relax our

00:40:03.380 standards of

00:40:04.120 adherence to

00:40:05.200 ancient superstitions

00:40:06.400 and taboos,

00:40:07.720 while otherwise

00:40:08.300 maintaining a

00:40:09.040 belief system

00:40:09.640 that was passed

00:40:10.620 down to us

00:40:11.200 from men and

00:40:11.720 women whose

00:40:12.120 lives were

00:40:12.780 simply ravaged

00:40:13.980 by their

00:40:14.580 basic ignorance

00:40:15.460 about the

00:40:15.880 world.

00:40:16.880 In what

00:40:17.200 other sphere

00:40:17.920 of life is

00:40:18.880 such subservience

00:40:19.940 to tradition

00:40:20.620 acceptable?

00:40:21.880 Medicine?

00:40:23.100 Engineering?

00:40:24.260 Not even

00:40:24.780 politics suffers

00:40:26.020 the anachronism

00:40:26.960 that still

00:40:27.760 dominates our

00:40:28.560 thinking about

00:40:29.140 ethical values

00:40:30.020 and spiritual

00:40:30.940 experience.

00:40:32.220 And this is a

00:40:32.700 point that I

00:40:33.120 occasionally make,

00:40:34.140 although perhaps

00:40:34.900 not often enough,

00:40:36.400 that one of the

00:40:37.200 other costs to

00:40:38.900 religious moderation

00:40:39.600 is that it

00:40:40.760 blocks the door

00:40:41.800 to a truly

00:40:42.800 rational,

00:40:43.920 truly unembarrassing

00:40:45.360 approach to

00:40:46.980 ethics and

00:40:47.760 spirituality.

00:40:49.300 Moderates insist

00:40:50.600 that we respect the

00:40:52.020 notion of

00:40:52.460 revelation because

00:40:53.220 there's something so

00:40:54.160 good in these

00:40:54.860 books that we

00:40:56.060 couldn't possibly

00:40:57.060 come up with it

00:40:57.860 on our own,

00:40:58.700 or couldn't view

00:41:00.580 all books as the

00:41:02.260 products of merely

00:41:03.040 human minds,

00:41:03.940 things, and

00:41:04.840 then sample the

00:41:06.320 best wisdom from

00:41:07.680 each without regard

00:41:08.880 for any tradition.

00:41:10.520 This belief, in

00:41:11.600 addition to

00:41:12.040 maintaining the

00:41:13.340 tribalism of

00:41:14.700 separate religious

00:41:15.600 communities in our

00:41:16.560 world, this belief

00:41:17.660 is not only

00:41:19.140 obviously false,

00:41:20.940 but profoundly

00:41:22.360 unhelpful.

00:41:23.900 Back to the text.

00:41:25.520 Imagine that we

00:41:26.340 could revive a

00:41:27.020 well-educated

00:41:27.700 Christian of the

00:41:28.460 14th century.

00:41:29.340 the man would

00:41:30.340 prove to be a

00:41:31.080 total ignoramus,

00:41:32.540 except on

00:41:33.200 matters of

00:41:33.760 faith.

00:41:34.600 His beliefs

00:41:35.000 about geography,

00:41:36.060 astronomy, and

00:41:36.860 medicine would

00:41:37.980 embarrass even a

00:41:38.980 child, but he

00:41:40.040 would know more

00:41:40.620 or less everything

00:41:41.180 there is to know

00:41:41.840 about God.

00:41:42.900 Though he would

00:41:43.460 be considered a

00:41:44.120 fool to think

00:41:44.840 that the earth

00:41:45.340 is the center of

00:41:46.060 the cosmos, or

00:41:47.240 that trepanation

00:41:48.040 constitutes a

00:41:48.880 wise medical

00:41:49.680 intervention, his

00:41:51.240 religious ideas

00:41:52.020 would still be

00:41:52.680 beyond reproach.

00:41:54.620 And for those

00:41:55.020 of you who don't

00:41:55.940 recognize the

00:41:56.640 word trepanate or

00:41:57.780 trepanation, or

00:41:59.000 trepaning, it's

00:42:00.280 the practice of

00:42:01.060 boring holes in

00:42:02.040 the human skull.

00:42:03.380 Often it's

00:42:04.560 imagined for the

00:42:05.840 purpose of

00:42:06.300 releasing a

00:42:07.900 demon that has

00:42:09.860 taken up residence

00:42:11.440 there.

00:42:12.300 This has gone

00:42:12.820 back thousands of

00:42:13.660 years.

00:42:14.820 I say in a

00:42:15.420 footnote here that

00:42:16.160 archaeological evidence

00:42:17.160 suggests that it's

00:42:18.000 one of the oldest

00:42:18.700 surgical procedures,

00:42:20.580 and it was

00:42:21.260 presumably performed

00:42:22.140 on epileptics and

00:42:23.420 the mentally ill as

00:42:24.820 an attempt at

00:42:25.980 exorcism.

00:42:27.220 Okay, back to the

00:42:28.020 curious fact that a

00:42:29.280 man from the

00:42:29.900 14th century would

00:42:31.420 know everything

00:42:32.260 there is to know

00:42:32.980 about God.

00:42:34.520 There are two

00:42:35.040 explanations for

00:42:36.240 this.

00:42:36.620 Either we

00:42:37.080 perfected our

00:42:37.820 religious understanding

00:42:38.680 of the world a

00:42:39.500 millennium ago, while

00:42:40.920 our knowledge on

00:42:41.600 all other fronts was

00:42:42.620 still hopelessly

00:42:43.580 inchoate, or

00:42:44.600 religion, being the

00:42:45.820 mere maintenance of

00:42:46.760 dogma, is one

00:42:48.000 area of discourse that

00:42:49.100 does not admit of

00:42:50.080 progress.

00:42:50.960 We will see that

00:42:51.820 there is much to

00:42:52.420 recommend in the

00:42:53.080 latter view.

00:42:54.420 With each passing

00:42:55.120 year, do our

00:42:55.860 religious beliefs

00:42:56.560 conserve more and

00:42:57.560 more of the data

00:42:58.320 of human experience?

00:42:59.780 If religion

00:43:00.300 addresses a genuine

00:43:01.400 sphere of

00:43:01.980 understanding and

00:43:02.860 human necessity,

00:43:04.180 then it should be

00:43:04.800 susceptible to

00:43:05.560 progress.

00:43:06.740 Its doctrines should

00:43:07.500 become more useful

00:43:08.520 rather than less.

00:43:10.520 Progress in

00:43:11.340 religion, as in

00:43:12.360 other fields, would

00:43:13.460 have to be a matter

00:43:14.200 of present inquiry,

00:43:16.120 not the mere

00:43:16.780 reiteration of past

00:43:17.940 doctrine.

00:43:19.020 Whatever is true

00:43:19.940 now should be

00:43:20.800 discoverable now,

00:43:22.260 and describable in

00:43:23.280 terms that are not

00:43:24.020 an outright affront

00:43:24.960 to the rest of

00:43:25.660 what we know

00:43:26.100 about the world.

00:43:27.380 By this measure,

00:43:28.360 the entire project

00:43:29.420 of religion seems

00:43:30.280 perfectly backward.

00:43:31.880 It cannot survive

00:43:32.980 the changes that

00:43:33.900 have come over us,

00:43:35.000 culturally,

00:43:35.720 technologically,

00:43:36.600 and even ethically.

00:43:38.120 Otherwise, there

00:43:39.180 are few reasons to

00:43:40.000 believe that we

00:43:40.640 will survive it.

00:43:42.960 The point I'm

00:43:43.800 making here, and I

00:43:44.720 believe I make it

00:43:45.720 in these terms

00:43:46.940 near the end of

00:43:47.860 the book, is that

00:43:49.200 I don't think

00:43:50.340 there's any reason

00:43:51.100 to believe that we

00:43:52.980 can survive our

00:43:54.100 religious differences

00:43:55.120 indefinitely, for

00:43:56.760 thousands of years

00:43:57.820 into the future.

00:43:59.000 How is it that the

00:43:59.860 most divisive ideology

00:44:01.480 we have ever

00:44:02.320 spawned will serve

00:44:03.800 us well, indefinitely?

00:44:06.240 How is it a good

00:44:07.200 idea, even now, to

00:44:09.500 have humanity

00:44:10.380 divided against

00:44:11.480 itself in this way?

00:44:13.660 Back to the book.

00:44:15.800 Moderates do not

00:44:16.600 want to kill anyone

00:44:17.640 in the name of God,

00:44:19.020 but they want us to

00:44:19.800 keep using the word

00:44:21.040 God as though we

00:44:21.960 knew what we were

00:44:22.620 talking about, and

00:44:23.940 they don't want

00:44:24.300 anything too critical

00:44:25.360 said about people

00:44:26.260 who really believe

00:44:27.280 in the God of

00:44:27.860 their fathers, because

00:44:29.140 tolerance, perhaps

00:44:30.340 above all else, is

00:44:31.840 sacred.

00:44:33.020 To speak plainly and

00:44:34.360 truthfully about the

00:44:35.240 state of our world, to

00:44:36.680 say, for instance, that

00:44:37.620 the Bible and the

00:44:38.340 Quran both contain

00:44:39.440 mountains of life-

00:44:40.480 destroying gibberish,

00:44:42.120 is antithetical to

00:44:43.280 tolerance as moderates

00:44:44.420 currently conceive it.

00:44:45.900 But we can no longer

00:44:47.180 afford the luxury of

00:44:48.400 such political

00:44:49.040 correctness.

00:44:50.360 We must finally

00:44:51.180 recognize the price we

00:44:52.560 are paying to

00:44:53.700 maintain the iconography

00:44:55.180 of our ignorance.

00:44:57.760 The Shadow of the

00:44:59.120 Past

00:44:59.560 Finding ourselves in a

00:45:01.920 universe that seems

00:45:02.720 bent upon destroying

00:45:03.800 us, we quickly

00:45:04.880 discover, both as

00:45:05.980 individuals and as

00:45:06.980 societies, that it is

00:45:08.820 a good thing to

00:45:09.540 understand the forces

00:45:10.600 arrayed against us.

00:45:12.420 And so it is that

00:45:13.220 every human being

00:45:13.920 comes to desire genuine

00:45:15.440 knowledge about the

00:45:16.280 world.

00:45:17.240 This has always posed a

00:45:18.480 special problem for

00:45:19.460 religion, because every

00:45:20.800 religion preaches the

00:45:21.840 truth of propositions for

00:45:23.220 which it has no

00:45:23.900 evidence.

00:45:24.680 In fact, every religion

00:45:26.100 preaches the truth of

00:45:27.060 propositions for which

00:45:28.360 no evidence is even

00:45:29.580 conceivable.

00:45:30.760 This put the leap in

00:45:32.240 Kierkegaard's Leap of

00:45:33.520 Faith.

00:45:34.740 What if all our

00:45:35.780 knowledge about the

00:45:36.580 world were to suddenly

00:45:37.400 disappear?

00:45:38.600 Imagine that six

00:45:39.500 billion of us wake up

00:45:40.640 tomorrow morning in a

00:45:41.620 state of utter ignorance

00:45:42.660 and confusion.

00:45:43.900 Our books and computers

00:45:44.860 are still here, but we

00:45:46.120 can't make heads or

00:45:47.020 tails of their

00:45:47.680 contents.

00:45:48.680 We've even forgotten

00:45:49.380 how to drive our cars

00:45:50.460 and brush our teeth.

00:45:51.820 What knowledge would we

00:45:52.740 want to reclaim first?

00:45:54.980 Well, there's that

00:45:55.760 business about growing

00:45:56.600 food and building

00:45:57.460 shelter that we would

00:45:58.380 want to get reacquainted

00:45:59.160 with.

00:45:59.800 We would want to

00:46:00.400 relearn how to use and

00:46:01.660 repair many of our

00:46:02.600 machines.

00:46:03.800 Learning to understand

00:46:04.600 spoken and written

00:46:05.400 language would also be a

00:46:06.560 top priority, given

00:46:07.980 that these skills are

00:46:08.800 necessary for acquiring

00:46:09.780 most others.

00:46:11.360 When in this process of

00:46:12.700 reclaiming our humanity

00:46:13.840 will it be important to

00:46:15.240 know that Jesus was born

00:46:16.460 of a virgin or that he

00:46:17.940 was resurrected?

00:46:19.360 And how would we

00:46:20.040 relearn these truths, if

00:46:21.680 indeed they are true?

00:46:23.100 By reading the Bible?

00:46:24.720 A tour of our shelves will

00:46:26.080 deliver similar pearls from

00:46:27.520 antiquity, like the

00:46:28.920 quote, fact that Isis, the

00:46:30.980 goddess of fertility, sports

00:46:32.680 an impressive pair of

00:46:33.680 cow horns.

00:46:35.000 Reading further, we will

00:46:36.480 learn that Thor carries a

00:46:37.840 hammer and that Marduk's

00:46:39.680 sacred animals are horses,

00:46:41.240 dogs, and a dragon with a

00:46:42.600 forked tongue.

00:46:43.200 Whom shall we give top

00:46:44.820 billing in our resurrected

00:46:46.040 world?

00:46:47.160 Yahweh or Shiva?

00:46:48.580 And when will we want to

00:46:49.480 relearn that premarital sex

00:46:51.100 is a sin, or that

00:46:52.560 adulteresses should be

00:46:53.680 stoned to death, or that

00:46:55.140 the soul enters the

00:46:56.160 zygote at the moment of

00:46:57.200 conception?

00:46:58.020 And what will we think of

00:46:59.060 those curious people who

00:47:00.120 begin proclaiming that one

00:47:01.260 of our books is distinct

00:47:02.300 from all others and that it

00:47:03.500 was actually written by the

00:47:04.680 creator of the universe?

00:47:06.240 There are undoubtedly

00:47:07.440 spiritual truths that we

00:47:08.820 would want to relearn, once

00:47:10.460 we manage to feed and

00:47:11.560 clothe ourselves, and these

00:47:13.180 are truths that we have

00:47:13.980 learned imperfectly in our

00:47:15.180 present state.

00:47:16.800 How is it possible, for

00:47:17.840 instance, to overcome one's

00:47:19.320 fear and inwardness and

00:47:20.540 simply love other human

00:47:21.700 beings?

00:47:22.920 Assume for the moment that

00:47:23.900 such a process of personal

00:47:25.120 transformation exists, and

00:47:27.060 that there is something worth

00:47:27.900 knowing about it.

00:47:29.160 There is, in other words,

00:47:30.440 some skill, or discipline, or

00:47:32.580 conceptual understanding, or

00:47:34.280 dietary supplement that

00:47:35.960 allows for the reliable

00:47:37.200 transformation of fearful,

00:47:39.020 hateful, or indifferent

00:47:40.040 persons into loving ones.

00:47:42.660 If so, we should be

00:47:43.540 positively desperate to

00:47:44.880 know about it.

00:47:45.780 There may even be a few

00:47:46.660 biblical passages that

00:47:47.780 would be useful in this

00:47:48.640 regard.

00:47:49.440 But as for whole rafts of

00:47:51.020 untestable doctrines,

00:47:52.800 clearly there would be no

00:47:53.700 reasonable basis to take

00:47:54.900 them up again.

00:47:56.160 The Bible and the Quran, it

00:47:57.700 seems certain, would find

00:47:58.920 themselves respectfully

00:48:00.140 shelved next to Ovid's

00:48:01.720 Metamorphoses and the

00:48:02.880 Egyptian Book of the Dead.

00:48:04.520 The point is that most of

00:48:06.060 what we currently hold

00:48:06.920 sacred is not sacred for

00:48:08.500 any reason other than it was

00:48:09.760 thought sacred yesterday.

00:48:12.120 Surely if we could create

00:48:13.220 the world anew, the

00:48:14.720 practice of organizing our

00:48:15.980 lives around untestable

00:48:17.360 propositions found in

00:48:18.620 ancient literature, to say

00:48:20.220 nothing of killing and

00:48:21.260 dying for them, would be

00:48:22.540 impossible to justify.

00:48:24.520 What stops us from finding

00:48:25.740 it impossible now?

00:48:28.000 Many have observed that

00:48:29.040 religion, by lending meaning

00:48:30.560 to human life, permits

00:48:32.120 communities, at least those

00:48:33.820 united under a single faith,

00:48:35.540 to cohere.

00:48:36.700 Historically this is true,

00:48:37.820 and on this score religion

00:48:39.160 is to be credited as much

00:48:40.320 for wars of conquest as

00:48:41.740 for feast days and

00:48:42.700 brotherly love.

00:48:43.820 But in its effect upon the

00:48:45.020 modern world, a world

00:48:46.560 already united, at least

00:48:48.100 potentially, by economic,

00:48:49.980 environmental, political,

00:48:51.520 and epidemiological

00:48:52.500 necessity, religious ideology

00:48:54.520 is dangerously retrograde.

00:48:57.020 Our past is not sacred for

00:48:58.780 being past, and there is

00:49:00.780 much that is behind us that

00:49:01.940 we are struggling to keep

00:49:03.140 behind us, and to which it is

00:49:05.060 to be hoped, we could never

00:49:06.320 return with a clear

00:49:07.360 conscience.

00:49:08.660 The divine right of kings,

00:49:10.680 feudalism, the caste system,

00:49:13.420 slavery, political executions,

00:49:16.560 forced castration, vivisection,

00:49:19.720 bear baiting, honorable duels,

00:49:22.680 chastity belts, trial by ordeal,

00:49:26.240 child labor, human and animal

00:49:28.620 sacrifice, the stoning of

00:49:30.980 heretics, cannibalism, sodomy

00:49:34.580 laws, taboos against

00:49:36.440 contraception, human radiation

00:49:39.060 experiments.

00:49:40.500 The list is nearly endless, and

00:49:42.700 if it were extended indefinitely,

00:49:44.480 the proportion of abuses for

00:49:45.800 which religion could be found

00:49:47.140 directly responsible is likely

00:49:48.980 to remain undiminished.

00:49:50.980 In fact, almost every indignity

00:49:52.700 just mentioned can be

00:49:54.020 attributed to an insufficient

00:49:55.200 taste for evidence, to an

00:49:57.040 uncritical faith in one dogma or

00:49:58.980 another.

00:50:00.040 The idea, therefore, that

00:50:01.040 religious faith is somehow a

00:50:02.400 sacred human convention,

00:50:03.700 distinguished as it is both by

00:50:05.640 the extravagance of its claims

00:50:07.180 and by the paucity of its

00:50:08.640 evidence, is really too great a

00:50:10.800 monstrosity to be appreciated in

00:50:12.540 all its glory.

00:50:14.180 Religious faith represents so

00:50:15.700 uncompromising a misuse of the

00:50:17.520 power of our minds that it forms a

00:50:19.320 kind of perverse cultural

00:50:20.760 singularity, a vanishing point

00:50:23.120 beyond which rational discourse

00:50:24.640 proves impossible.

00:50:26.460 When foisted upon each generation

00:50:28.220 anew, it renders us incapable of

00:50:30.380 realizing just how much of our

00:50:31.760 world has been unnecessarily

00:50:33.560 ceded to a dark and barbarous

00:50:35.860 past.

00:50:37.540 The burden of paradise.

00:50:40.220 Our world is fast succumbing to

00:50:41.860 the activities of the world.

00:50:42.860 If you'd like to continue listening to

00:50:45.560 this conversation, you'll need to

00:50:47.240 subscribe at samharris.org.

00:50:49.440 Once you do, you'll get access to

00:50:50.840 all full-length episodes of the

00:50:52.200 Making Sense podcast, along with

00:50:53.980 other subscriber-only content,

00:50:55.920 including bonus episodes and AMAs,

00:50:58.600 and the conversations I've been

00:50:59.660 having on the Waking Up app.

00:51:01.460 The Making Sense podcast is ad-free

00:51:03.240 and relies entirely on listener

00:51:05.100 support, and you can subscribe now

00:51:07.280 at samharris.org.

00:51:08.700 Thank you.

Making Sense - Sam Harris - April 25, 2016

#35 — The End Of Faith Sessions 1

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript