Making Sense - Sam Harris - December 11, 2024


#395 — Intellectual Authority and Its Discontents


Episode Stats

Length

31 minutes

Words per Minute

156.9568

Word Count

4,941

Sentence Count

264

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

11


Summary

In this episode of the Making Sense Podcast, I talk about the benefits of not having a paywall, and why I don t need one. I also talk about why I chose not to have an advertising-based business model in the first place.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast.
00:00:23.320 This is Sam Harris.
00:00:25.420 First, I have an announcement to make.
00:00:27.020 We are making a simple but important change to the platform over here.
00:00:31.460 We're combining the Making Sense Podcast with my Substack newsletter.
00:00:36.180 There are several reasons for this, but the main one is that it will just be better for everyone.
00:00:42.120 It'll be better for you because you'll be able to get everything I produce in audio, video, and print with one subscription.
00:00:48.860 And it'll be better for me because I won't be pulled in two directions,
00:00:52.620 needing to create content for separate audiences, divided by a paywall.
00:00:57.020 Going forward, I'll decide whether something's best done in audio, video, or print,
00:01:01.560 or some combination of the three, and then just send it out to everyone.
00:01:05.640 Substack also hosts podcasts, so we'll eventually put my audio and video there, too.
00:01:10.120 And it has live video that I'll experiment with at some point.
00:01:12.820 So if you're currently an annual subscriber to both the podcast and the newsletter,
00:01:18.360 that is, you are paying for the Making Sense Podcast through my website,
00:01:21.900 and you are paying for the newsletter over at Substack,
00:01:24.980 we'll be reaching out to you by email to say that we've consolidated your subscription.
00:01:29.240 And of course, you'll see reduced pricing.
00:01:31.360 There shouldn't be anything you need to do on your end, because you already have access to everything.
00:01:34.920 And we'll delay renewing your subscription at the lower price,
00:01:38.200 so you'll get some free months added to your account.
00:01:40.880 So you won't pay a penalty for us not having figured out that the platforms
00:01:44.240 should have been combined from the very beginning.
00:01:47.000 If you're currently an annual subscriber to the podcast or the newsletter,
00:01:51.860 that is, you are paying for one of them,
00:01:53.840 your email address will soon give you access to everything.
00:01:56.840 There may be a few kinks to be worked out in integrating the two platforms.
00:02:00.100 But going forward, whether you're subscribed through my website or through Substack, won't matter.
00:02:06.300 And of course, we'll send an email reminding you of this when everything is sorted out.
00:02:10.320 And if you have any problems, just email support at samharris.org, and someone will help you.
00:02:16.620 As always, if you can't afford a subscription, email support at samharris.org,
00:02:21.180 and you'll be given one for free.
00:02:23.180 Or you'll be given the option to pay whatever you want.
00:02:26.120 As you know, I can only have this policy because most of you who can afford to pay
00:02:29.900 for a subscription actually do.
00:02:32.440 And that is a wonderful thing.
00:02:34.500 You make this flexible business model possible.
00:02:37.660 And just as important, you have immunized me against many of the concerns
00:02:41.220 that make other people in media afraid to say what they really think
00:02:44.620 on a wide variety of important issues.
00:02:47.700 I suspect that many of you still might not understand how rare my situation is.
00:02:52.980 So it's probably worth spelling out.
00:02:55.080 I've consciously built a business that allows me to be honest
00:03:00.020 about all the lunacy on both sides of our politics.
00:03:04.360 As a matter of principle, I simply wouldn't do this any other way.
00:03:08.700 But the point is, I couldn't do it without you paying subscribers.
00:03:13.400 Because of the platform we've built together,
00:03:15.760 my only job is to say what I really think,
00:03:18.760 even when what I think is unpopular or inconvenient for my side of an argument.
00:03:24.920 Very few people have this freedom.
00:03:28.280 Most successful podcasters are palpably constrained by their audience metrics,
00:03:34.140 against which they sell ads.
00:03:36.060 I don't have any sponsors.
00:03:37.740 And I don't track any metrics.
00:03:39.780 And this isn't an accident.
00:03:41.240 I realized years ago that if I was going to spend my time
00:03:45.100 discussing controversial issues and ideas,
00:03:47.760 I had to do it in a way that both allowed me to be honest
00:03:50.460 and to be perceived as being honest.
00:03:53.560 This is one reason why I've avoided ads.
00:03:56.340 I mean, I could honestly read ads here.
00:03:59.200 There are many companies and products that I love,
00:04:01.800 but I didn't want to have to think about their brand concerns
00:04:04.720 when deciding who to talk to or what to talk about.
00:04:07.880 And not having sponsors has given me extraordinary freedom.
00:04:11.840 To just think out loud.
00:04:13.520 And to create a successful business while doing it.
00:04:16.040 Again, I don't think this is obvious to most people.
00:04:19.020 Why is a subscription model so much better than running ads?
00:04:22.640 Well, just think about it.
00:04:23.800 How easy would it be for me to say something,
00:04:26.320 or to have something said about me,
00:04:28.240 that could cause half a dozen or a dozen reputable sponsors
00:04:31.380 to get spooked and stop supporting the podcast?
00:04:35.320 Now imagine what I would have to say,
00:04:37.040 or have said about me,
00:04:38.500 that would lead tens of thousands of subscribers
00:04:40.800 to suddenly cancel their subscriptions.
00:04:43.660 There really is security in numbers.
00:04:46.700 And sponsors are much more fickle than subscribers.
00:04:50.040 For good reason.
00:04:51.300 They have their own reputations to worry about.
00:04:54.260 However, having subscribers can still leave a person
00:04:56.540 susceptible to audience capture.
00:04:58.520 That is, if they have the wrong type of audience.
00:05:01.060 And from my point of view,
00:05:02.200 many podcasts and newsletters
00:05:03.900 have cultivated the wrong type of audience.
00:05:06.440 Many of the biggest podcasters
00:05:08.840 know that they can't afford to alienate
00:05:10.820 their right-leaning or left-leaning listeners,
00:05:13.440 or their establishment or anti-establishment listeners,
00:05:16.960 because they've built the type of audience
00:05:18.720 that wants its biases pandered to.
00:05:21.780 Some of these people touch very controversial topics,
00:05:24.400 but you'll notice that they do it always from one side,
00:05:27.540 and the hate that they get is always from the other side.
00:05:30.560 But I don't have a side,
00:05:33.200 and that is a very different situation to be in.
00:05:35.940 I need to be free to alienate either side by turns.
00:05:40.580 Early on, I noticed that a significant part of my audience
00:05:43.480 grew outraged whenever I bumped up
00:05:46.420 against left-wing orthodoxy.
00:05:48.340 So I made it a point not to care.
00:05:51.280 And when I noticed that another part of my audience
00:05:53.060 supported Trump,
00:05:54.480 I also refused to care.
00:05:57.240 Those of you who have been with me for several years
00:05:59.300 know that talking about issues like racism
00:06:02.080 and police violence
00:06:03.520 and Islam
00:06:04.500 and identity politics
00:06:06.120 has effectively gotten me cancelled on the left.
00:06:09.860 There's no question, in my mind at least,
00:06:12.320 that had I had a normal job in media
00:06:14.360 or at a university
00:06:15.580 somewhere around 2018,
00:06:17.820 I would have been fired
00:06:18.740 because of how fully I was smeared
00:06:20.820 by certain prominent people on the left.
00:06:23.700 And later on, my views about Trump
00:06:25.780 and COVID
00:06:26.520 and populism
00:06:27.940 and America First
00:06:29.500 isolationism
00:06:30.580 and social media
00:06:32.060 and misinformation
00:06:32.700 all the bullshit around Hunter Biden's laptop
00:06:35.500 all of that effectively got me cancelled
00:06:37.900 on the right.
00:06:39.260 But the result is exactly
00:06:41.140 what I want.
00:06:43.040 Most of you don't get to see this.
00:06:44.900 The result is that my core audience
00:06:46.940 has been steadily purged
00:06:49.280 of partisan stupidity
00:06:51.040 all the while continuing to grow.
00:06:52.920 I've built an audience
00:06:54.800 that values
00:06:56.040 how I arrive at conclusions
00:06:58.180 rather than the conclusions themselves.
00:07:01.180 I have an audience
00:07:02.180 that isn't content
00:07:03.180 for me to be right
00:07:04.340 or to imagine
00:07:05.520 that I'm right
00:07:06.460 for the wrong reasons.
00:07:08.480 You don't want me
00:07:09.280 taking cheap shots
00:07:10.480 at the other side
00:07:11.440 or to just be a team player
00:07:13.560 because for me
00:07:15.200 and for most of you,
00:07:16.900 there is no permanent
00:07:18.100 other side.
00:07:18.940 I'm not on a team
00:07:21.300 and if there's a weakness
00:07:22.800 in one of my arguments,
00:07:24.640 you want me
00:07:25.400 to be the first
00:07:26.160 to spot it.
00:07:27.660 I don't know
00:07:28.320 if you've noticed,
00:07:29.580 but that is not
00:07:30.360 what is happening
00:07:31.060 in most of our media,
00:07:32.980 whether mainstream
00:07:33.700 or independent.
00:07:35.280 If I know anything
00:07:36.420 about my core audience,
00:07:37.980 it's that you want me
00:07:38.780 to embody
00:07:39.320 certain standards
00:07:40.220 of intellectual
00:07:40.880 and ethical integrity.
00:07:42.700 The point is not
00:07:43.900 where I arrive,
00:07:45.460 it's how I get there.
00:07:46.480 So subscribing here
00:07:48.620 isn't the same
00:07:49.280 as buying one of my books
00:07:50.500 simply because
00:07:50.980 you want to read it.
00:07:52.500 If you're a subscriber,
00:07:53.860 you're supporting
00:07:54.580 the next thing
00:07:55.440 I say or do,
00:07:57.000 not merely the last thing.
00:07:58.780 I can change my mind
00:08:00.200 about anything.
00:08:01.480 I can grow interested in
00:08:03.040 or tired of anything.
00:08:05.640 And that is a freedom
00:08:06.940 that most people in media
00:08:08.340 simply do not have.
00:08:10.640 Even some of the most
00:08:11.560 successful people in media
00:08:12.920 are condemned
00:08:14.220 to fit a pattern
00:08:15.400 defined by their audience.
00:08:17.740 I'm really not.
00:08:19.380 And those of you
00:08:19.960 who subscribe
00:08:20.480 make this freedom possible,
00:08:23.200 allowing me to continue
00:08:24.220 to argue for basic sanity,
00:08:27.020 which will remain necessary
00:08:28.820 for some time to come.
00:08:31.380 So, as always,
00:08:32.900 thank you for your support.
00:08:35.660 Okay.
00:08:37.040 And now for an important topic
00:08:38.580 on which I appear
00:08:39.280 to have offended
00:08:39.880 many, many people,
00:08:41.660 about which many
00:08:42.400 of these offended people
00:08:43.380 appear profoundly confused.
00:08:45.400 I think this is somewhere
00:08:47.020 near the center
00:08:47.680 of our most pressing
00:08:49.000 cultural problems,
00:08:50.320 especially the shattering
00:08:51.720 of our information landscape
00:08:53.120 and the resulting
00:08:54.340 hyperpolarization
00:08:55.800 of our politics.
00:08:57.100 The result of this,
00:08:58.220 especially on the right,
00:08:59.640 is an increasingly
00:09:00.520 conspiratorial view
00:09:01.960 of the world.
00:09:03.500 Rather than recognize
00:09:04.740 that bad outcomes
00:09:06.000 are often due to
00:09:07.140 ignorance or incompetence,
00:09:09.100 people on the right
00:09:09.700 seem to see
00:09:10.200 malevolent competence
00:09:11.460 and coordination
00:09:12.420 everywhere.
00:09:13.180 This shattering
00:09:14.520 is also fueling
00:09:15.440 widespread contempt
00:09:16.580 for institutions.
00:09:18.600 Needless to say,
00:09:19.100 any response
00:09:19.680 to this contempt
00:09:20.460 from the institutions
00:09:21.240 themselves
00:09:21.960 tends to be dismissed
00:09:23.420 as just more sinister
00:09:24.560 machinations
00:09:25.400 on the part
00:09:25.920 of the elites.
00:09:27.640 Some of this
00:09:28.080 populist backlash
00:09:28.860 is understandable,
00:09:30.600 but increasingly,
00:09:32.560 this seems like
00:09:33.200 a cultural
00:09:33.960 death spiral
00:09:34.980 to me.
00:09:36.500 Our institutions
00:09:37.200 simply must
00:09:38.600 regain
00:09:39.220 public trust.
00:09:40.240 The question is,
00:09:42.500 how can they do that?
00:09:44.420 At the core
00:09:45.000 of this problem
00:09:45.760 lurks a fundamental
00:09:47.080 question about
00:09:47.760 the nature
00:09:48.240 of intellectual
00:09:48.880 authority.
00:09:50.280 When do we rely
00:09:51.100 on it?
00:09:51.920 And when are we
00:09:52.460 right to ignore it?
00:09:53.800 Or even repudiate it?
00:09:55.820 Everyone knows
00:09:56.640 that you shouldn't
00:09:57.220 argue from
00:09:58.240 authority.
00:09:59.360 You can't say,
00:10:00.260 what I'm saying
00:10:00.900 is true
00:10:01.560 because I
00:10:02.740 am saying it.
00:10:03.680 Or it's true
00:10:04.500 because Einstein
00:10:05.440 said it.
00:10:06.480 Or because it's
00:10:06.920 been published
00:10:07.360 in a prestigious
00:10:08.020 journal.
00:10:08.500 If a theory
00:10:09.860 is true
00:10:10.520 or a fact
00:10:11.720 is really a fact,
00:10:13.300 it is so
00:10:14.140 independent
00:10:14.880 of the identity
00:10:15.680 of the person
00:10:16.420 adducing it.
00:10:17.860 Consequently,
00:10:18.400 no sane
00:10:19.180 expert
00:10:19.760 ever really
00:10:20.920 argues
00:10:21.460 from
00:10:22.220 authority.
00:10:23.380 What actually
00:10:24.080 happens is
00:10:24.540 something that
00:10:24.900 is easily
00:10:25.400 mistaken
00:10:25.980 for this,
00:10:27.440 which is that
00:10:27.860 people often
00:10:28.420 rely on authority
00:10:29.300 as a proxy
00:10:30.100 for explaining
00:10:30.980 or even
00:10:31.460 understanding
00:10:32.140 why something
00:10:33.420 is true.
00:10:34.520 It's a little
00:10:34.900 like using
00:10:35.400 money as a
00:10:36.140 medium of
00:10:36.560 exchange
00:10:37.040 rather than
00:10:37.940 hauling around
00:10:38.560 valuable objects
00:10:39.580 or commodities.
00:10:41.100 It's easier
00:10:41.500 to carry
00:10:42.000 dirty paper
00:10:42.740 in your pocket
00:10:43.380 than a barrel
00:10:44.260 of oil
00:10:44.720 or a bushel
00:10:45.640 of wheat.
00:10:46.680 In the same
00:10:47.340 way,
00:10:47.540 it's easier
00:10:47.820 to say
00:10:48.420 or to think
00:10:49.280 that gravity
00:10:50.240 is identical
00:10:50.740 to the curvature
00:10:51.380 of space-time
00:10:52.160 because Einstein
00:10:53.480 proved it
00:10:54.200 than it is
00:10:55.060 to really
00:10:55.520 understand
00:10:56.120 the general
00:10:56.600 theory of
00:10:57.020 relativity.
00:10:57.960 It's a
00:10:58.420 shortcut
00:10:58.760 that's
00:10:59.480 necessary
00:10:59.880 for just
00:11:00.480 about everyone
00:11:01.220 most of the
00:11:02.100 time.
00:11:02.920 The crucial
00:11:03.680 point
00:11:04.260 is that
00:11:05.260 there is
00:11:05.520 a difference
00:11:06.260 between
00:11:07.160 rejecting
00:11:07.780 any argument
00:11:08.740 from authority
00:11:09.780 and rejecting
00:11:10.880 the value
00:11:11.600 or reality
00:11:13.000 of authority
00:11:14.100 itself.
00:11:15.460 For instance,
00:11:16.200 I often speak
00:11:16.940 with physicists
00:11:17.580 on this podcast
00:11:18.740 and when I do,
00:11:20.140 it is appropriate
00:11:20.780 for me to assume
00:11:21.940 that they know
00:11:23.040 their field
00:11:23.820 better than I do.
00:11:25.560 After all,
00:11:26.200 that is what
00:11:26.740 specialization
00:11:27.640 is.
00:11:28.940 If I spent
00:11:29.380 as much time
00:11:29.960 studying physics
00:11:30.800 as a professional
00:11:32.100 physicist
00:11:32.540 and proved
00:11:33.580 competent
00:11:34.120 at that
00:11:34.640 task,
00:11:35.340 I would
00:11:36.020 be a
00:11:36.840 physicist.
00:11:38.040 And when
00:11:38.320 talking to
00:11:38.920 a physicist,
00:11:39.920 it is important
00:11:40.660 for me to
00:11:41.140 understand
00:11:41.800 that I'm
00:11:42.660 not one.
00:11:44.060 Of course,
00:11:44.480 this is true
00:11:44.840 for any other
00:11:45.580 area of
00:11:46.100 specialization.
00:11:47.620 If I'm
00:11:47.820 talking to
00:11:48.460 Siddhartha
00:11:48.940 Mukherjee
00:11:49.440 about cancer,
00:11:51.180 it is only
00:11:51.760 decent and
00:11:52.620 sane for me
00:11:53.620 to acknowledge,
00:11:54.800 if merely
00:11:55.280 tacitly by
00:11:56.160 asking questions
00:11:57.120 and listening
00:11:57.820 to the answers,
00:11:58.880 that he,
00:11:59.480 being a
00:11:59.780 celebrated
00:12:00.240 oncologist,
00:12:01.700 knows more
00:12:02.380 about cancer
00:12:02.980 than I
00:12:03.360 do.
00:12:04.200 There simply
00:12:04.660 is such a
00:12:05.540 thing as
00:12:06.060 expertise,
00:12:07.080 and to
00:12:07.600 not acknowledge
00:12:08.460 this is
00:12:09.740 just idiotic.
00:12:11.100 And to
00:12:11.460 move through
00:12:12.120 life not
00:12:13.420 acknowledging it
00:12:14.200 is to turn
00:12:15.120 the whole
00:12:15.600 world into
00:12:16.780 a theater
00:12:17.440 of potential
00:12:18.620 embarrassment.
00:12:20.300 Relying on
00:12:20.780 authority can
00:12:21.320 produce errors,
00:12:22.560 of course,
00:12:23.480 in the same
00:12:23.900 way that some
00:12:24.280 of the money
00:12:24.640 in your wallet
00:12:25.240 could prove
00:12:25.780 to be
00:12:26.100 counterfeit,
00:12:27.140 but not
00:12:27.800 relying on it,
00:12:29.280 shunning it,
00:12:30.280 just, quote,
00:12:30.900 doing one's own
00:12:31.660 research,
00:12:32.380 is guaranteed
00:12:33.580 to produce
00:12:34.320 more errors,
00:12:35.600 at least in
00:12:36.100 the aggregate.
00:12:37.580 After all,
00:12:38.140 what is one
00:12:38.640 doing when
00:12:39.740 one is, quote,
00:12:40.380 doing one's
00:12:41.000 own research,
00:12:42.220 if not seeking
00:12:43.140 out what the
00:12:43.720 best authorities
00:12:44.620 have to say
00:12:45.360 on a given
00:12:45.980 topic?
00:12:47.040 What the
00:12:47.700 phrase doing
00:12:48.200 your own
00:12:48.540 research usually
00:12:49.320 refers to are
00:12:50.620 the efforts that
00:12:51.100 people make to
00:12:51.720 sort through
00:12:52.240 information,
00:12:53.660 mostly online,
00:12:55.040 when they no
00:12:55.620 longer trust what
00:12:57.140 most mainstream
00:12:57.940 experts have to
00:12:58.940 say.
00:13:00.000 Usually what this
00:13:00.700 means is that
00:13:01.100 they have gone
00:13:01.640 in search of
00:13:02.220 other voices that
00:13:03.560 are telling them
00:13:04.140 what they want
00:13:04.540 to hear,
00:13:05.400 or perhaps what
00:13:06.000 they don't want
00:13:06.520 to hear,
00:13:07.180 but it's now
00:13:07.600 coming with a
00:13:08.140 compelling
00:13:08.540 conspiratorial or
00:13:10.040 contrarian slant.
00:13:12.160 You don't trust
00:13:12.920 what the most
00:13:13.300 respected doctors
00:13:14.400 have to say,
00:13:15.600 because you think
00:13:16.080 they've all been
00:13:16.560 captured by big
00:13:17.420 pharma,
00:13:18.120 perhaps,
00:13:18.780 so you found a
00:13:19.300 guy in Tijuana
00:13:20.060 who says he can
00:13:21.120 cure your cancer.
00:13:22.400 You don't trust
00:13:23.160 what the Mayo Clinic
00:13:24.000 says about vaccines,
00:13:25.560 and now you're
00:13:26.000 afraid to get your
00:13:26.660 kids vaccinated,
00:13:27.820 because you've
00:13:28.680 listened to 14
00:13:29.420 hours of RFK
00:13:30.400 Jr.
00:13:31.140 on podcasts,
00:13:32.260 and now you've
00:13:33.240 started trusting
00:13:34.080 him as,
00:13:36.040 what,
00:13:37.100 a new authority.
00:13:39.260 We can't break
00:13:40.440 free of the
00:13:41.280 circle of
00:13:41.960 authority.
00:13:43.320 Of course,
00:13:43.700 I'm not denying
00:13:44.380 that it's possible
00:13:45.120 to do truly
00:13:45.840 original research
00:13:46.960 where you
00:13:48.060 become the
00:13:48.880 new authority,
00:13:49.700 but that is not
00:13:50.600 what we're talking
00:13:51.200 about here.
00:13:52.760 Doing one's own
00:13:53.740 research almost
00:13:54.680 never entails
00:13:55.800 running the
00:13:56.900 relevant experiments
00:13:57.780 in virology
00:13:58.820 oneself,
00:14:00.220 or searching
00:14:00.720 the Soviet
00:14:01.240 archives
00:14:02.020 oneself,
00:14:03.420 or translating
00:14:04.160 the speech
00:14:04.720 from Arabic
00:14:05.340 oneself,
00:14:06.640 or interviewing
00:14:07.460 the long-dead
00:14:08.300 politician
00:14:09.000 oneself.
00:14:10.500 Most of the
00:14:11.380 time,
00:14:11.680 we simply
00:14:12.140 have to trust
00:14:13.180 that other
00:14:14.260 people did
00:14:14.980 their work
00:14:15.500 responsibly,
00:14:16.560 that their
00:14:17.080 data isn't
00:14:17.900 fabricated,
00:14:19.200 that they
00:14:19.520 didn't devote
00:14:20.000 their entire
00:14:20.700 careers to
00:14:22.080 perpetrating
00:14:22.720 an elaborate
00:14:23.360 hoax.
00:14:24.660 Again,
00:14:25.080 there are
00:14:25.560 exceptions,
00:14:26.840 but they are
00:14:27.300 simply not
00:14:27.960 relevant most
00:14:29.140 of the time.
00:14:30.020 That is what
00:14:30.640 it means to
00:14:31.260 be an
00:14:31.500 exception.
00:14:33.020 Most of
00:14:33.480 the time,
00:14:34.060 if you no
00:14:34.640 longer trust
00:14:35.320 the experts,
00:14:36.320 you've started
00:14:36.960 trusting someone's
00:14:38.080 uncle.
00:14:39.380 Most of the
00:14:39.860 time,
00:14:40.380 real experts,
00:14:41.740 who have been
00:14:42.380 trained in the
00:14:43.180 relevant disciplines,
00:14:44.740 through real
00:14:45.520 institutions,
00:14:47.060 offer the best
00:14:47.740 approximation of
00:14:48.640 our knowledge
00:14:49.280 within a field.
00:14:50.760 This is no
00:14:51.700 more debatable
00:14:52.420 than the claim
00:14:53.360 that most of
00:14:54.060 the time,
00:14:54.500 our best
00:14:55.440 basketball
00:14:56.040 players are
00:14:56.900 in the
00:14:57.160 NBA.
00:14:58.260 Is it
00:14:58.540 possible to
00:14:58.980 find someone
00:14:59.320 outside the
00:15:00.120 NBA who's
00:15:00.780 amazing at
00:15:01.460 basketball?
00:15:02.700 Of course.
00:15:03.840 Is it also
00:15:04.320 possible to
00:15:04.860 find someone
00:15:05.280 in the
00:15:05.760 NBA who
00:15:06.440 shouldn't be
00:15:06.920 there?
00:15:07.800 Probably.
00:15:09.020 Though it's
00:15:09.300 also safe to
00:15:09.840 say that such
00:15:10.260 a person will
00:15:10.680 spend most of
00:15:11.180 his time
00:15:11.500 sitting on
00:15:11.900 the bench,
00:15:13.160 it is simply
00:15:13.600 a fact that
00:15:14.120 if you had
00:15:14.440 to find the
00:15:14.980 best basketball
00:15:15.880 players in
00:15:16.500 America in
00:15:17.920 some reasonable
00:15:18.560 time frame,
00:15:19.800 you could do
00:15:20.220 a lot worse
00:15:21.040 than grab the
00:15:22.020 NBA All-Stars
00:15:23.040 from any
00:15:23.840 given year.
00:15:25.300 And so it
00:15:25.740 is with
00:15:26.060 scientists and
00:15:27.100 historians and
00:15:28.420 other specialists
00:15:29.080 at our most
00:15:29.640 elite institutions.
00:15:31.240 And there are
00:15:31.880 two important
00:15:32.580 caveats to
00:15:33.760 this general
00:15:34.260 rule.
00:15:35.120 The first is
00:15:35.880 that there
00:15:36.160 are fake
00:15:37.000 disciplines,
00:15:38.400 or those that
00:15:38.940 are mostly
00:15:39.320 fake, whole
00:15:40.760 fields of
00:15:41.440 scholarship that
00:15:42.660 pretend to be
00:15:43.420 scientific, or
00:15:44.600 at least
00:15:44.880 intellectually
00:15:45.400 rigorous, but
00:15:46.880 they are mostly
00:15:47.520 or entirely a
00:15:49.100 sham.
00:15:50.380 And secondly,
00:15:50.940 there are real
00:15:51.520 areas of
00:15:52.100 scholarship,
00:15:53.040 that have
00:15:53.320 been corrupted
00:15:53.920 to one or
00:15:54.680 another degree
00:15:55.260 by politics
00:15:56.280 or other
00:15:57.120 bad incentives.
00:15:58.700 For instance,
00:15:59.220 one cannot,
00:15:59.980 with any
00:16:00.340 confidence,
00:16:01.280 venture into
00:16:01.680 a department
00:16:02.160 of Middle
00:16:02.540 Eastern studies
00:16:03.340 at an
00:16:03.680 American
00:16:03.980 university and
00:16:05.140 get a morally
00:16:05.780 sane, much
00:16:07.000 less accurate
00:16:07.680 account of the
00:16:08.360 conflict between
00:16:09.040 Israel and
00:16:09.460 the Palestinians,
00:16:10.740 or between
00:16:11.240 Western values
00:16:12.240 and those of
00:16:12.780 conservative Islam.
00:16:14.620 But the
00:16:14.940 reasons for
00:16:15.580 that failure
00:16:16.220 are also
00:16:17.140 knowable and
00:16:18.320 ultimately
00:16:18.700 correctable.
00:16:19.940 I mean,
00:16:20.080 one reason is
00:16:20.620 that Qatar,
00:16:21.820 an Islamic
00:16:22.320 theocracy and
00:16:23.260 patron of
00:16:23.880 terrorists,
00:16:25.020 has given
00:16:25.400 more money
00:16:26.100 to U.S.
00:16:26.740 universities than
00:16:27.940 any other
00:16:28.700 country on
00:16:29.540 earth has.
00:16:30.920 This is a
00:16:31.540 totally bizarre
00:16:32.500 situation that
00:16:33.340 fairly shrieks of
00:16:34.460 intellectual
00:16:34.980 corruption,
00:16:36.020 if not
00:16:36.460 suicide.
00:16:37.740 But again,
00:16:38.440 the problem
00:16:38.960 here is
00:16:39.540 understandable,
00:16:41.020 and can be
00:16:41.620 fixed, and
00:16:42.860 it is simply
00:16:43.280 one version of
00:16:44.100 the problem of
00:16:44.820 bad incentives.
00:16:46.100 The reason to
00:16:47.020 worry about bad
00:16:47.660 incentives is
00:16:48.900 is that we
00:16:49.100 understand how
00:16:50.120 they corrupt
00:16:50.660 people.
00:16:51.780 This is why
00:16:52.160 the Upton
00:16:52.580 Sinclair line
00:16:53.540 is so famous,
00:16:54.700 because it
00:16:55.460 captures a
00:16:55.960 perennial problem
00:16:56.720 in society.
00:16:58.000 It is difficult
00:16:58.440 to get a man
00:16:58.980 to understand
00:16:59.640 something when
00:17:00.260 his salary
00:17:00.820 depends on
00:17:01.480 his not
00:17:01.900 understanding
00:17:02.460 it.
00:17:03.420 Of course,
00:17:03.820 this relates
00:17:04.240 to what I
00:17:04.540 was saying
00:17:04.820 about my
00:17:05.160 business model
00:17:05.780 a few
00:17:06.360 moments ago.
00:17:07.740 Insofar as
00:17:08.400 it's possible,
00:17:09.580 you want to
00:17:10.380 remove the
00:17:10.960 bad incentives
00:17:11.680 from your
00:17:12.300 life.
00:17:13.280 And collectively,
00:17:14.600 we have to
00:17:15.420 worry about
00:17:15.840 bad incentives
00:17:16.640 distorting our
00:17:17.900 view of
00:17:18.340 what's
00:17:18.600 important or
00:17:19.640 even of
00:17:20.020 what is
00:17:20.380 real.
00:17:21.940 Now, most
00:17:22.500 of the
00:17:22.700 current
00:17:22.960 skepticism
00:17:23.560 about
00:17:23.940 establishment
00:17:24.840 institutions
00:17:25.540 and about
00:17:26.320 mainstream
00:17:26.740 expertise
00:17:27.540 generally is
00:17:29.080 the result
00:17:29.400 of the
00:17:29.660 various
00:17:29.980 failures of
00:17:30.740 scientific
00:17:31.100 thinking and
00:17:31.780 communication
00:17:32.320 that occurred
00:17:32.880 during the
00:17:33.260 COVID pandemic.
00:17:34.820 While many
00:17:35.560 of these
00:17:35.800 failures were
00:17:36.540 significant,
00:17:37.720 there is no
00:17:38.160 question that
00:17:39.040 they have been
00:17:39.420 magnified and
00:17:40.560 distorted by
00:17:41.720 our politics.
00:17:42.860 In a previous
00:17:43.720 podcast, I
00:17:44.500 made an
00:17:44.880 invidious
00:17:45.340 comparison between
00:17:46.400 Anthony Fauci and
00:17:47.620 Francis Collins,
00:17:49.000 two doctors who
00:17:49.720 are now widely
00:17:50.460 demonized right of
00:17:51.880 center, and
00:17:53.040 RFK Jr.
00:17:54.620 My point wasn't
00:17:55.520 to absolve
00:17:56.620 Fauci and
00:17:57.220 Collins of all
00:17:57.900 responsibility for
00:17:58.880 mismanaging our
00:17:59.640 response to
00:18:00.180 COVID.
00:18:01.240 For all I know,
00:18:02.020 both men should
00:18:02.720 be investigated.
00:18:03.900 I have no idea
00:18:04.860 what we would
00:18:05.560 find.
00:18:06.360 I was simply
00:18:06.800 pointing out that
00:18:07.380 these guys exist
00:18:08.360 within a culture
00:18:09.140 of science where
00:18:10.460 intellectual
00:18:10.960 embarrassment, and
00:18:12.400 worse, is
00:18:13.500 still possible.
00:18:14.220 RFK Jr.
00:18:16.740 doesn't.
00:18:17.700 He is a
00:18:18.240 crackpot and
00:18:19.360 a conspiracy
00:18:20.060 nut.
00:18:20.900 That doesn't
00:18:21.460 mean he's wrong
00:18:22.080 about everything,
00:18:23.140 and that doesn't
00:18:23.680 mean turning him
00:18:24.460 loose on the
00:18:24.940 bureaucracy of the
00:18:25.700 HHS might not do
00:18:27.240 some good.
00:18:28.320 Perhaps it will.
00:18:29.860 Is he the best
00:18:30.660 person to do that
00:18:31.900 good?
00:18:32.620 Of course not.
00:18:34.040 But it is possible
00:18:35.300 for the wrong
00:18:35.960 person to
00:18:37.020 occasionally do
00:18:37.840 the right thing.
00:18:39.440 However, whatever
00:18:40.600 good RFK Jr.
00:18:42.100 may accomplish
00:18:42.800 in the future,
00:18:44.260 my point stands.
00:18:46.020 Unlike Fauci or
00:18:47.100 Collins, he has
00:18:48.560 no intellectual
00:18:49.500 reputation to
00:18:50.440 maintain.
00:18:51.600 He can drag a
00:18:52.560 dead bear into
00:18:53.640 Central Park and
00:18:54.560 stage a fake
00:18:55.340 bike accident
00:18:56.120 with it, and it
00:18:57.420 just serves to
00:18:58.240 burnish his brand
00:18:59.440 for his idiotic
00:19:00.660 fans.
00:19:01.600 He can also
00:19:02.320 spread lies and
00:19:03.320 misinformation about
00:19:04.280 vaccines in a
00:19:06.000 multi-decade
00:19:07.020 contrarian grift,
00:19:09.000 and he will
00:19:09.680 continue to thrive in
00:19:11.400 a parallel reality
00:19:12.560 where Andrew
00:19:13.900 Wakefield, the
00:19:15.320 fraud who
00:19:15.860 originally linked
00:19:16.560 the MMR vaccine
00:19:17.660 with autism, is
00:19:19.140 considered an
00:19:19.780 unfairly maligned
00:19:21.040 scientific authority.
00:19:22.600 If Fauci and
00:19:23.840 Collins, or any
00:19:25.060 other scientists,
00:19:26.440 are guilty of
00:19:27.180 scientific misconduct,
00:19:28.900 that is something
00:19:29.660 that can be found
00:19:30.360 out, and their
00:19:31.440 reputations will
00:19:32.640 really suffer.
00:19:34.320 Not among
00:19:34.820 cultists and
00:19:35.900 freaks, but among
00:19:37.420 the people who
00:19:38.100 hold their
00:19:38.720 reputations in
00:19:39.960 trust, other
00:19:41.580 scientists, real
00:19:43.920 scientists and
00:19:45.060 scholars and
00:19:45.960 journalists can be
00:19:47.480 convicted of
00:19:48.220 misconduct or
00:19:49.680 hypocrisy or some
00:19:51.380 other betrayal of
00:19:52.320 intellectual standards
00:19:53.400 because they have
00:19:54.900 such standards to
00:19:56.280 betray.
00:19:57.340 There are no
00:19:57.960 standards of
00:19:58.920 intellectual integrity
00:19:59.840 in Trumpistan, and
00:20:02.100 there are no
00:20:02.440 standards of ethical
00:20:03.480 integrity either.
00:20:05.740 If you live there,
00:20:07.020 it is literally
00:20:07.660 impossible to be a
00:20:09.220 hypocrite.
00:20:10.420 In Trump's orbit, if
00:20:11.400 you're caught cheating
00:20:12.380 on your wife or
00:20:13.680 your taxes, you can
00:20:15.400 say, whoever said I
00:20:17.060 wasn't going to cheat
00:20:18.200 on my wife or my
00:20:19.100 taxes, fuck you, and
00:20:21.860 you win.
00:20:23.340 The truth is, RFK
00:20:24.760 Jr. doesn't belong
00:20:26.260 anywhere near the
00:20:27.880 levers of power that
00:20:29.360 govern health policy in
00:20:30.820 America.
00:20:31.900 But again, this
00:20:33.440 doesn't mean that he's
00:20:34.380 wrong about everything,
00:20:35.640 and it doesn't mean that
00:20:36.820 he can't possibly do
00:20:38.100 some good, and I
00:20:39.660 hope he does if he
00:20:40.660 actually gets
00:20:41.140 confirmed.
00:20:42.720 There are bad
00:20:43.740 incentives in the
00:20:44.520 business of medicine
00:20:45.360 and medical insurance
00:20:46.740 and pharmaceuticals, and
00:20:48.740 it would be very good
00:20:49.780 for someone to try to
00:20:51.020 sort them out.
00:20:52.140 These are very basic
00:20:53.700 distinctions I'm making,
00:20:55.840 but over on X, that
00:20:57.840 paradise for free
00:20:58.980 speech, and on many
00:21:00.420 prominent podcasts, such
00:21:02.460 distinctions appear
00:21:03.340 impossible to understand.
00:21:04.680 There are edge cases, of
00:21:07.180 course, that can be
00:21:08.300 genuinely difficult to
00:21:09.180 resolve.
00:21:10.580 For instance, what about
00:21:11.340 the possibility of the
00:21:12.600 lone, self-taught genius
00:21:14.540 who just comes crashing
00:21:16.080 through established
00:21:17.080 orthodoxy, bearing a new
00:21:18.920 gospel?
00:21:20.120 How do we recognize that
00:21:21.380 when it arrives?
00:21:22.960 Conversely, and much more
00:21:24.260 common, what about the
00:21:26.120 pedigreed expert who looks
00:21:27.760 perfect on paper?
00:21:29.120 He's got all the right
00:21:29.880 degrees and is published in
00:21:31.160 good journals, but due to
00:21:33.040 some quirk in his wiring, he
00:21:35.280 becomes a crank, or a
00:21:36.740 lunatic, and now he's on
00:21:38.400 Joe Rogan's podcast, and
00:21:40.180 somewhere around the four
00:21:41.140 hour mark, he divulges that
00:21:42.720 he was once abducted and
00:21:44.040 lavishly probed by
00:21:45.560 extraterrestrials.
00:21:47.340 It should be obvious that
00:21:48.260 either way, mere
00:21:49.380 credentialism isn't a
00:21:51.500 perfect filter.
00:21:53.300 A PhD from Caltech
00:21:54.560 guarantees something.
00:21:56.500 It more or less guarantees
00:21:57.580 that a person is smart, but
00:21:59.560 it can't guarantee that they
00:22:01.060 are sane, and it really is
00:22:03.040 possible for someone to
00:22:03.900 come from outside a field
00:22:05.360 and make important
00:22:06.480 contributions within it.
00:22:08.580 There is no formula for
00:22:09.920 resolving doubt in such
00:22:11.520 cases, beyond getting other
00:22:13.320 smart people who are
00:22:14.400 adequate to the
00:22:15.160 conversation, that is, other
00:22:17.240 real authorities, to render
00:22:19.320 their judgment.
00:22:20.480 Whether to spend time doing
00:22:21.880 this oneself and risk wasting
00:22:24.200 time, or harder still,
00:22:26.180 whether to give such a
00:22:26.840 person a public platform so
00:22:28.760 that many more people can
00:22:29.540 hear and respond to their
00:22:30.880 views can be hard to
00:22:32.400 decide, and I've made no
00:22:34.080 secret of the fact that I
00:22:34.960 think other prominent
00:22:35.900 podcasters have screwed this
00:22:37.500 up repeatedly.
00:22:39.380 Many have made a habit of
00:22:40.460 talking to people who quite
00:22:41.640 obviously don't clear the
00:22:43.700 bar, and it's embarrassing.
00:22:46.440 What's more, it's been
00:22:47.100 damaging to the public
00:22:48.080 conversation about several
00:22:49.300 important issues.
00:22:51.060 However, I'm probably guilty
00:22:52.220 of making some bad calls
00:22:53.320 myself, and I will probably
00:22:55.020 make mistakes in the future.
00:22:56.160 But these are edge cases for a
00:22:59.120 reason.
00:23:00.000 They're hard to figure out.
00:23:01.940 My general policy is that the
00:23:03.160 most respected mainstream
00:23:05.020 voices on most topics are
00:23:07.880 generally worth listening to.
00:23:09.900 Again, in many fields, on many
00:23:12.420 topics, it's like finding your
00:23:14.140 next free-throw shooter in the
00:23:15.580 NBA.
00:23:16.580 Not a bad place to look.
00:23:18.980 Of course, there are
00:23:20.420 exceptions, but RFK Jr. on
00:23:23.120 vaccines isn't one of them, and
00:23:25.780 neither is the comedian Dave
00:23:27.200 Smith on U.S.
00:23:28.320 foreign policy.
00:23:29.760 Nor is Tucker Carlson on any
00:23:32.040 topic, other than what the
00:23:34.140 hell happened to him.
00:23:36.080 Those are easy calls.
00:23:39.000 We're watching our political,
00:23:40.760 intellectual, and even moral
00:23:42.380 culture get torched every hour
00:23:45.800 of the day on social media.
00:23:48.700 And Elon Musk is now one of the
00:23:50.160 greatest arsonists out there.
00:23:52.020 While he and his fans pretend
00:23:54.100 that he's the fire marshal
00:23:55.300 coming to the rescue.
00:23:57.340 Elon is being celebrated by
00:23:59.360 legions of credulous and
00:24:01.860 self-deceived people as the
00:24:04.040 person who is doing more than
00:24:05.320 anyone to restore and protect
00:24:07.340 the integrity of our public
00:24:08.620 conversation, while he's
00:24:10.640 probably doing more than anyone
00:24:12.060 to sabotage it.
00:24:13.720 He's become almost an apostle of
00:24:15.960 a new religion whose sacrament is
00:24:18.880 algorithmically amplified
00:24:20.320 bullshit, and like many
00:24:22.320 religious figures, he simply
00:24:23.760 does not care about misleading
00:24:25.900 people.
00:24:26.780 He isn't noticing his errors,
00:24:29.240 much less correcting them, to
00:24:30.820 say nothing of apologizing for
00:24:32.440 them.
00:24:33.360 And if you notice them for him,
00:24:36.220 you become his enemy, fit only to
00:24:38.240 be smeared and lied about in his
00:24:40.600 digital hall of mirrors.
00:24:42.700 You have to be able to hold two
00:24:44.200 thoughts in your head at the same
00:24:45.560 moment.
00:24:45.860 Yes, the man is the most talented
00:24:48.440 entrepreneur of his generation, and
00:24:51.100 yes, he has become a total
00:24:52.440 asshole.
00:24:53.940 And to call him reckless and
00:24:55.560 irresponsible is an understatement.
00:24:58.900 He simply does not care if he
00:25:01.380 spreads dangerous, defamatory
00:25:03.320 lies.
00:25:04.640 And if you wonder whether I tried my
00:25:06.100 best to get through to him in
00:25:07.200 private before saying this sort of
00:25:08.960 thing in public, I did.
00:25:10.680 And it has been nauseating to watch
00:25:14.580 Elon pass the various loyalty
00:25:16.260 tests laid out for him by Trump,
00:25:19.280 minimizing the significance of
00:25:20.620 January 6th, for instance.
00:25:22.960 It's interesting to wonder what role
00:25:24.620 incentives could play here.
00:25:26.800 I mean, how has the richest and one
00:25:28.560 of the most famous and powerful men
00:25:30.280 on earth been incentivized to behave
00:25:33.660 this way?
00:25:34.940 Well, as I've said before, I think
00:25:36.340 social media has played a major role
00:25:38.140 here.
00:25:38.560 At some point, Elon became a kind of
00:25:41.280 attention monster, which is what
00:25:43.360 Trump has always been.
00:25:45.440 I think it's safe to say that
00:25:46.420 attention, especially adulation, from
00:25:49.320 the wrong audience, is bad for you.
00:25:52.780 In any case, if you think that concerns
00:25:54.760 about misinformation and
00:25:56.960 disinformation and the spread of
00:25:59.040 conspiracy thinking are just fake,
00:26:02.260 they're just smokescreens thrown up by
00:26:03.940 people who don't like free speech and
00:26:06.140 favor government censorship, and you
00:26:08.540 think all the freewheeling fuckery on
00:26:10.520 social media from Trump and Elon is
00:26:12.440 necessary and noble, you're in a cult.
00:26:16.360 Spreading obvious lies is not necessary
00:26:19.700 or noble.
00:26:21.440 Amplifying baseless and divisive
00:26:23.560 conspiracy theories and ridicule and
00:26:27.080 hatred isn't necessary or noble.
00:26:30.220 But this is what Trump and Elon have done
00:26:33.500 at scale for years now.
00:26:37.380 If you're politically right of center, and
00:26:39.940 you believe that the problem of conspiracy
00:26:41.420 thinking is exaggerated, what do you think
00:26:44.540 about it over on the left?
00:26:46.780 Admittedly, it's not as big a problem over
00:26:48.700 there, but it definitely exists.
00:26:51.640 And for instance, there are people who
00:26:52.980 believe that Trump faked that first
00:26:55.820 assassination attempt against him.
00:26:57.260 Have you heard about this?
00:26:59.320 Like most conspiracy theories, it's ridiculous.
00:27:02.280 But there are people who believe this.
00:27:04.780 If you don't like the phrase conspiracy
00:27:06.960 theory, one stigmatizes some of the
00:27:09.340 Trumpist garbage you're attached to.
00:27:12.160 Do you resist its application here to the
00:27:15.360 truly ludicrous idea that Trump hired someone
00:27:19.060 to shoot him in the ear?
00:27:20.080 The shooter killed an innocent person and
00:27:23.120 then got killed himself for all the
00:27:25.520 trouble he took to perfectly nick Trump's
00:27:28.160 ear.
00:27:29.180 What do you think about a person whose
00:27:31.100 adventures online, just doing his own
00:27:33.260 research, have convinced him that this is
00:27:35.640 the best explanation of what we all saw?
00:27:39.720 The problem of misinformation runs the
00:27:41.960 other way, too.
00:27:43.120 And I've defended Trump against the most
00:27:44.560 glaring instance of it.
00:27:46.240 Not the so-called Russia-gate or Russia-collusion
00:27:48.640 hoax.
00:27:49.760 Any of you who have these phrases rattling
00:27:51.500 around in your head are, again, in a cult.
00:27:54.840 And you have forgotten, if you ever even
00:27:56.980 knew, all the ways in which Trump and his
00:27:59.620 2016 campaign were compromised by weird
00:28:02.280 connections to Russia.
00:28:03.960 The fact that Paul Manafort was running
00:28:05.960 his campaign, in and of itself, was worthy
00:28:09.300 of investigation.
00:28:11.040 Lobbying for foreign interests was that
00:28:12.760 guy's whole career.
00:28:14.640 Even Republican senators acknowledged that
00:28:16.700 Manafort posed a serious counterintelligence
00:28:19.020 risk, and he proved to be such an upstanding
00:28:21.360 citizen that he was sentenced to years in
00:28:23.840 prison.
00:28:24.980 Of course, Trump then pardoned him.
00:28:27.460 Nothing to see here, fellas.
00:28:29.660 Trump's corruption has always been in plain
00:28:32.640 view, and has never acquired allegations of a
00:28:35.560 hidden criminal conspiracy.
00:28:37.620 Anyone who uses the phrase, Russiagate, or the
00:28:41.040 Russia-collusion hoax, is guaranteed to be wrong
00:28:44.560 about what the Mueller report actually said.
00:28:47.220 The truth is, you have no idea what was in the
00:28:49.940 Mueller report, and you don't care.
00:28:52.400 And ditto for the January 6th commission report.
00:28:55.560 You're not tracking any of this, because you're
00:28:58.320 in a cult.
00:28:59.860 It's the cult of, who gives a shit, you elitist
00:29:02.560 asshole?
00:29:03.500 Burn it all down.
00:29:05.700 The clearest case of misinformation against
00:29:07.780 Trump, that I'm aware of, was the very fine people on
00:29:11.200 both sides, calumny.
00:29:13.700 And almost everyone left of center still believes
00:29:16.180 that after that rally in Charlottesville, Trump
00:29:18.960 praised the assembled neo-Nazis and white
00:29:21.100 supremacists as, quote, very fine people.
00:29:24.500 They believe this because a clip from one of his
00:29:26.380 press conferences was edited to make it seem like
00:29:29.220 he said this.
00:29:30.540 We are being driven insane as a species, one
00:29:35.300 misleading clip at a time.
00:29:37.020 As I've pointed out many times before, if you watch
00:29:40.600 Trump's remarks in context, you will see that the
00:29:43.220 claim that he was praising neo-Nazis and white
00:29:45.680 supremacists is a lie.
00:29:47.980 And I have debunked this lie many, many times, both on
00:29:51.260 this podcast and in print, to the consternation of
00:29:54.740 people on the left who just want to score points against
00:29:57.160 Trump and Trumpism without any concern for their own
00:30:00.380 ethical or intellectual integrity.
00:30:02.960 Needless to say, I've done this not out of any love for
00:30:05.020 Trump or his influence on our politics, but out of a
00:30:08.440 hatred for lies.
00:30:10.780 But Trump and Elon and the cults that they have built are
00:30:15.420 comfortable with lies and half-truths and endless
00:30:19.720 bullshit.
00:30:20.920 They are perfectly content to watch our political culture
00:30:23.720 succumb to an algorithmically mediated delirium.
00:30:28.300 And they seem to have no concern about destroying important
00:30:30.740 institutions.
00:30:31.400 And in many cases, declare themselves eager to destroy
00:30:34.820 them.
00:30:35.840 Again, I'm not rooting for these guys to fail.
00:30:39.560 And nothing I've said here is predicated on the conviction
00:30:41.980 that they will.
00:30:43.480 All of my complaints about Trump and Elon and their leveraging of
00:30:47.840 populist irrationality and rage refer to harms that have
00:30:51.860 already occurred.
00:30:53.680 Moral injuries to our society that we have already suffered.
00:30:57.300 dangerous lies that were already told, with the full knowledge that
00:31:02.860 they were lies.
00:31:04.360 Who knows what will happen in the future?
00:31:07.560 At least it will not be boring.
00:31:10.900 Thanks for listening.
00:31:11.720 Thanks for listening.
00:31:26.800 Amen.