Making Sense - Sam Harris - #395 — Intellectual Authority and Its Discontents

00:00:00.000 Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast.

00:00:23.320 This is Sam Harris.

00:00:25.420 First, I have an announcement to make.

00:00:27.020 We are making a simple but important change to the platform over here.

00:00:31.460 We're combining the Making Sense Podcast with my Substack newsletter.

00:00:36.180 There are several reasons for this, but the main one is that it will just be better for everyone.

00:00:42.120 It'll be better for you because you'll be able to get everything I produce in audio, video, and print with one subscription.

00:00:48.860 And it'll be better for me because I won't be pulled in two directions,

00:00:52.620 needing to create content for separate audiences, divided by a paywall.

00:00:57.020 Going forward, I'll decide whether something's best done in audio, video, or print,

00:01:01.560 or some combination of the three, and then just send it out to everyone.

00:01:05.640 Substack also hosts podcasts, so we'll eventually put my audio and video there, too.

00:01:10.120 And it has live video that I'll experiment with at some point.

00:01:12.820 So if you're currently an annual subscriber to both the podcast and the newsletter,

00:01:18.360 that is, you are paying for the Making Sense Podcast through my website,

00:01:21.900 and you are paying for the newsletter over at Substack,

00:01:24.980 we'll be reaching out to you by email to say that we've consolidated your subscription.

00:01:29.240 And of course, you'll see reduced pricing.

00:01:31.360 There shouldn't be anything you need to do on your end, because you already have access to everything.

00:01:34.920 And we'll delay renewing your subscription at the lower price,

00:01:38.200 so you'll get some free months added to your account.

00:01:40.880 So you won't pay a penalty for us not having figured out that the platforms

00:01:44.240 should have been combined from the very beginning.

00:01:47.000 If you're currently an annual subscriber to the podcast or the newsletter,

00:01:51.860 that is, you are paying for one of them,

00:01:53.840 your email address will soon give you access to everything.

00:01:56.840 There may be a few kinks to be worked out in integrating the two platforms.

00:02:00.100 But going forward, whether you're subscribed through my website or through Substack, won't matter.

00:02:06.300 And of course, we'll send an email reminding you of this when everything is sorted out.

00:02:10.320 And if you have any problems, just email support at samharris.org, and someone will help you.

00:02:16.620 As always, if you can't afford a subscription, email support at samharris.org,

00:02:21.180 and you'll be given one for free.

00:02:23.180 Or you'll be given the option to pay whatever you want.

00:02:26.120 As you know, I can only have this policy because most of you who can afford to pay

00:02:29.900 for a subscription actually do.

00:02:32.440 And that is a wonderful thing.

00:02:34.500 You make this flexible business model possible.

00:02:37.660 And just as important, you have immunized me against many of the concerns

00:02:41.220 that make other people in media afraid to say what they really think

00:02:44.620 on a wide variety of important issues.

00:02:47.700 I suspect that many of you still might not understand how rare my situation is.

00:02:52.980 So it's probably worth spelling out.

00:02:55.080 I've consciously built a business that allows me to be honest

00:03:00.020 about all the lunacy on both sides of our politics.

00:03:04.360 As a matter of principle, I simply wouldn't do this any other way.

00:03:08.700 But the point is, I couldn't do it without you paying subscribers.

00:03:13.400 Because of the platform we've built together,

00:03:15.760 my only job is to say what I really think,

00:03:18.760 even when what I think is unpopular or inconvenient for my side of an argument.

00:03:24.920 Very few people have this freedom.

00:03:28.280 Most successful podcasters are palpably constrained by their audience metrics,

00:03:34.140 against which they sell ads.

00:03:36.060 I don't have any sponsors.

00:03:37.740 And I don't track any metrics.

00:03:39.780 And this isn't an accident.

00:03:41.240 I realized years ago that if I was going to spend my time

00:03:45.100 discussing controversial issues and ideas,

00:03:47.760 I had to do it in a way that both allowed me to be honest

00:03:50.460 and to be perceived as being honest.

00:03:53.560 This is one reason why I've avoided ads.

00:03:56.340 I mean, I could honestly read ads here.

00:03:59.200 There are many companies and products that I love,

00:04:01.800 but I didn't want to have to think about their brand concerns

00:04:04.720 when deciding who to talk to or what to talk about.

00:04:07.880 And not having sponsors has given me extraordinary freedom.

00:04:11.840 To just think out loud.

00:04:13.520 And to create a successful business while doing it.

00:04:16.040 Again, I don't think this is obvious to most people.

00:04:19.020 Why is a subscription model so much better than running ads?

00:04:22.640 Well, just think about it.

00:04:23.800 How easy would it be for me to say something,

00:04:26.320 or to have something said about me,

00:04:28.240 that could cause half a dozen or a dozen reputable sponsors

00:04:31.380 to get spooked and stop supporting the podcast?

00:04:35.320 Now imagine what I would have to say,

00:04:37.040 or have said about me,

00:04:38.500 that would lead tens of thousands of subscribers

00:04:40.800 to suddenly cancel their subscriptions.

00:04:43.660 There really is security in numbers.

00:04:46.700 And sponsors are much more fickle than subscribers.

00:04:50.040 For good reason.

00:04:51.300 They have their own reputations to worry about.

00:04:54.260 However, having subscribers can still leave a person

00:04:56.540 susceptible to audience capture.

00:04:58.520 That is, if they have the wrong type of audience.

00:05:01.060 And from my point of view,

00:05:02.200 many podcasts and newsletters

00:05:03.900 have cultivated the wrong type of audience.

00:05:06.440 Many of the biggest podcasters

00:05:08.840 know that they can't afford to alienate

00:05:10.820 their right-leaning or left-leaning listeners,

00:05:13.440 or their establishment or anti-establishment listeners,

00:05:16.960 because they've built the type of audience

00:05:18.720 that wants its biases pandered to.

00:05:21.780 Some of these people touch very controversial topics,

00:05:24.400 but you'll notice that they do it always from one side,

00:05:27.540 and the hate that they get is always from the other side.

00:05:30.560 But I don't have a side,

00:05:33.200 and that is a very different situation to be in.

00:05:35.940 I need to be free to alienate either side by turns.

00:05:40.580 Early on, I noticed that a significant part of my audience

00:05:43.480 grew outraged whenever I bumped up

00:05:46.420 against left-wing orthodoxy.

00:05:48.340 So I made it a point not to care.

00:05:51.280 And when I noticed that another part of my audience

00:05:53.060 supported Trump,

00:05:54.480 I also refused to care.

00:05:57.240 Those of you who have been with me for several years

00:05:59.300 know that talking about issues like racism

00:06:02.080 and police violence

00:06:03.520 and Islam

00:06:04.500 and identity politics

00:06:06.120 has effectively gotten me cancelled on the left.

00:06:09.860 There's no question, in my mind at least,

00:06:12.320 that had I had a normal job in media

00:06:14.360 or at a university

00:06:15.580 somewhere around 2018,

00:06:17.820 I would have been fired

00:06:18.740 because of how fully I was smeared

00:06:20.820 by certain prominent people on the left.

00:06:23.700 And later on, my views about Trump

00:06:25.780 and COVID

00:06:26.520 and populism

00:06:27.940 and America First

00:06:29.500 isolationism

00:06:30.580 and social media

00:06:32.060 and misinformation

00:06:32.700 all the bullshit around Hunter Biden's laptop

00:06:35.500 all of that effectively got me cancelled

00:06:37.900 on the right.

00:06:39.260 But the result is exactly

00:06:41.140 what I want.

00:06:43.040 Most of you don't get to see this.

00:06:44.900 The result is that my core audience

00:06:46.940 has been steadily purged

00:06:49.280 of partisan stupidity

00:06:51.040 all the while continuing to grow.

00:06:52.920 I've built an audience

00:06:54.800 that values

00:06:56.040 how I arrive at conclusions

00:06:58.180 rather than the conclusions themselves.

00:07:01.180 I have an audience

00:07:02.180 that isn't content

00:07:03.180 for me to be right

00:07:04.340 or to imagine

00:07:05.520 that I'm right

00:07:06.460 for the wrong reasons.

00:07:08.480 You don't want me

00:07:09.280 taking cheap shots

00:07:10.480 at the other side

00:07:11.440 or to just be a team player

00:07:13.560 because for me

00:07:15.200 and for most of you,

00:07:16.900 there is no permanent

00:07:18.100 other side.

00:07:18.940 I'm not on a team

00:07:21.300 and if there's a weakness

00:07:22.800 in one of my arguments,

00:07:24.640 you want me

00:07:25.400 to be the first

00:07:26.160 to spot it.

00:07:27.660 I don't know

00:07:28.320 if you've noticed,

00:07:29.580 but that is not

00:07:30.360 what is happening

00:07:31.060 in most of our media,

00:07:32.980 whether mainstream

00:07:33.700 or independent.

00:07:35.280 If I know anything

00:07:36.420 about my core audience,

00:07:37.980 it's that you want me

00:07:38.780 to embody

00:07:39.320 certain standards

00:07:40.220 of intellectual

00:07:40.880 and ethical integrity.

00:07:42.700 The point is not

00:07:43.900 where I arrive,

00:07:45.460 it's how I get there.

00:07:46.480 So subscribing here

00:07:48.620 isn't the same

00:07:49.280 as buying one of my books

00:07:50.500 simply because

00:07:50.980 you want to read it.

00:07:52.500 If you're a subscriber,

00:07:53.860 you're supporting

00:07:54.580 the next thing

00:07:55.440 I say or do,

00:07:57.000 not merely the last thing.

00:07:58.780 I can change my mind

00:08:00.200 about anything.

00:08:01.480 I can grow interested in

00:08:03.040 or tired of anything.

00:08:05.640 And that is a freedom

00:08:06.940 that most people in media

00:08:08.340 simply do not have.

00:08:10.640 Even some of the most

00:08:11.560 successful people in media

00:08:12.920 are condemned

00:08:14.220 to fit a pattern

00:08:15.400 defined by their audience.

00:08:17.740 I'm really not.

00:08:19.380 And those of you

00:08:19.960 who subscribe

00:08:20.480 make this freedom possible,

00:08:23.200 allowing me to continue

00:08:24.220 to argue for basic sanity,

00:08:27.020 which will remain necessary

00:08:28.820 for some time to come.

00:08:31.380 So, as always,

00:08:32.900 thank you for your support.

00:08:35.660 Okay.

00:08:37.040 And now for an important topic

00:08:38.580 on which I appear

00:08:39.280 to have offended

00:08:39.880 many, many people,

00:08:41.660 about which many

00:08:42.400 of these offended people

00:08:43.380 appear profoundly confused.

00:08:45.400 I think this is somewhere

00:08:47.020 near the center

00:08:47.680 of our most pressing

00:08:49.000 cultural problems,

00:08:50.320 especially the shattering

00:08:51.720 of our information landscape

00:08:53.120 and the resulting

00:08:54.340 hyperpolarization

00:08:55.800 of our politics.

00:08:57.100 The result of this,

00:08:58.220 especially on the right,

00:08:59.640 is an increasingly

00:09:00.520 conspiratorial view

00:09:01.960 of the world.

00:09:03.500 Rather than recognize

00:09:04.740 that bad outcomes

00:09:06.000 are often due to

00:09:07.140 ignorance or incompetence,

00:09:09.100 people on the right

00:09:09.700 seem to see

00:09:10.200 malevolent competence

00:09:11.460 and coordination

00:09:12.420 everywhere.

00:09:13.180 This shattering

00:09:14.520 is also fueling

00:09:15.440 widespread contempt

00:09:16.580 for institutions.

00:09:18.600 Needless to say,

00:09:19.100 any response

00:09:19.680 to this contempt

00:09:20.460 from the institutions

00:09:21.240 themselves

00:09:21.960 tends to be dismissed

00:09:23.420 as just more sinister

00:09:24.560 machinations

00:09:25.400 on the part

00:09:25.920 of the elites.

00:09:27.640 Some of this

00:09:28.080 populist backlash

00:09:28.860 is understandable,

00:09:30.600 but increasingly,

00:09:32.560 this seems like

00:09:33.200 a cultural

00:09:33.960 death spiral

00:09:34.980 to me.

00:09:36.500 Our institutions

00:09:37.200 simply must

00:09:38.600 regain

00:09:39.220 public trust.

00:09:40.240 The question is,

00:09:42.500 how can they do that?

00:09:44.420 At the core

00:09:45.000 of this problem

00:09:45.760 lurks a fundamental 0.52

00:09:47.080 question about

00:09:47.760 the nature

00:09:48.240 of intellectual

00:09:48.880 authority.

00:09:50.280 When do we rely

00:09:51.100 on it?

00:09:51.920 And when are we

00:09:52.460 right to ignore it?

00:09:53.800 Or even repudiate it?

00:09:55.820 Everyone knows

00:09:56.640 that you shouldn't

00:09:57.220 argue from

00:09:58.240 authority.

00:09:59.360 You can't say,

00:10:00.260 what I'm saying

00:10:00.900 is true 0.89

00:10:01.560 because I

00:10:02.740 am saying it.

00:10:03.680 Or it's true

00:10:04.500 because Einstein

00:10:05.440 said it.

00:10:06.480 Or because it's

00:10:06.920 been published

00:10:07.360 in a prestigious

00:10:08.020 journal.

00:10:08.500 If a theory

00:10:09.860 is true 0.89

00:10:10.520 or a fact

00:10:11.720 is really a fact,

00:10:13.300 it is so

00:10:14.140 independent

00:10:14.880 of the identity

00:10:15.680 of the person

00:10:16.420 adducing it.

00:10:17.860 Consequently,

00:10:18.400 no sane

00:10:19.180 expert

00:10:19.760 ever really

00:10:20.920 argues

00:10:21.460 from

00:10:22.220 authority.

00:10:23.380 What actually

00:10:24.080 happens is

00:10:24.540 something that

00:10:24.900 is easily

00:10:25.400 mistaken

00:10:25.980 for this,

00:10:27.440 which is that

00:10:27.860 people often

00:10:28.420 rely on authority

00:10:29.300 as a proxy

00:10:30.100 for explaining

00:10:30.980 or even

00:10:31.460 understanding

00:10:32.140 why something

00:10:33.420 is true.

00:10:34.520 It's a little

00:10:34.900 like using

00:10:35.400 money as a

00:10:36.140 medium of

00:10:36.560 exchange

00:10:37.040 rather than

00:10:37.940 hauling around

00:10:38.560 valuable objects

00:10:39.580 or commodities.

00:10:41.100 It's easier

00:10:41.500 to carry

00:10:42.000 dirty paper

00:10:42.740 in your pocket

00:10:43.380 than a barrel

00:10:44.260 of oil

00:10:44.720 or a bushel

00:10:45.640 of wheat.

00:10:46.680 In the same

00:10:47.340 way,

00:10:47.540 it's easier

00:10:47.820 to say

00:10:48.420 or to think

00:10:49.280 that gravity

00:10:50.240 is identical

00:10:50.740 to the curvature

00:10:51.380 of space-time

00:10:52.160 because Einstein

00:10:53.480 proved it

00:10:54.200 than it is

00:10:55.060 to really

00:10:55.520 understand

00:10:56.120 the general

00:10:56.600 theory of

00:10:57.020 relativity.

00:10:57.960 It's a

00:10:58.420 shortcut

00:10:58.760 that's

00:10:59.480 necessary

00:10:59.880 for just

00:11:00.480 about everyone

00:11:01.220 most of the

00:11:02.100 time.

00:11:02.920 The crucial

00:11:03.680 point

00:11:04.260 is that

00:11:05.260 there is

00:11:05.520 a difference

00:11:06.260 between

00:11:07.160 rejecting

00:11:07.780 any argument

00:11:08.740 from authority

00:11:09.780 and rejecting

00:11:10.880 the value

00:11:11.600 or reality

00:11:13.000 of authority

00:11:14.100 itself.

00:11:15.460 For instance,

00:11:16.200 I often speak

00:11:16.940 with physicists

00:11:17.580 on this podcast

00:11:18.740 and when I do,

00:11:20.140 it is appropriate

00:11:20.780 for me to assume

00:11:21.940 that they know

00:11:23.040 their field

00:11:23.820 better than I do.

00:11:25.560 After all,

00:11:26.200 that is what

00:11:26.740 specialization

00:11:27.640 is.

00:11:28.940 If I spent

00:11:29.380 as much time

00:11:29.960 studying physics

00:11:30.800 as a professional

00:11:32.100 physicist

00:11:32.540 and proved

00:11:33.580 competent

00:11:34.120 at that

00:11:34.640 task,

00:11:35.340 I would

00:11:36.020 be a

00:11:36.840 physicist.

00:11:38.040 And when

00:11:38.320 talking to

00:11:38.920 a physicist,

00:11:39.920 it is important

00:11:40.660 for me to

00:11:41.140 understand

00:11:41.800 that I'm

00:11:42.660 not one.

00:11:44.060 Of course,

00:11:44.480 this is true

00:11:44.840 for any other

00:11:45.580 area of

00:11:46.100 specialization.

00:11:47.620 If I'm

00:11:47.820 talking to

00:11:48.460 Siddhartha

00:11:48.940 Mukherjee

00:11:49.440 about cancer,

00:11:51.180 it is only

00:11:51.760 decent and

00:11:52.620 sane for me

00:11:53.620 to acknowledge,

00:11:54.800 if merely

00:11:55.280 tacitly by

00:11:56.160 asking questions

00:11:57.120 and listening

00:11:57.820 to the answers,

00:11:58.880 that he,

00:11:59.480 being a

00:11:59.780 celebrated

00:12:00.240 oncologist,

00:12:01.700 knows more

00:12:02.380 about cancer

00:12:02.980 than I

00:12:03.360 do.

00:12:04.200 There simply

00:12:04.660 is such a

00:12:05.540 thing as

00:12:06.060 expertise,

00:12:07.080 and to

00:12:07.600 not acknowledge

00:12:08.460 this is

00:12:09.740 just idiotic.

00:12:11.100 And to

00:12:11.460 move through

00:12:12.120 life not

00:12:13.420 acknowledging it

00:12:14.200 is to turn

00:12:15.120 the whole

00:12:15.600 world into

00:12:16.780 a theater

00:12:17.440 of potential

00:12:18.620 embarrassment.

00:12:20.300 Relying on

00:12:20.780 authority can

00:12:21.320 produce errors,

00:12:22.560 of course,

00:12:23.480 in the same

00:12:23.900 way that some

00:12:24.280 of the money

00:12:24.640 in your wallet

00:12:25.240 could prove

00:12:25.780 to be

00:12:26.100 counterfeit,

00:12:27.140 but not

00:12:27.800 relying on it,

00:12:29.280 shunning it,

00:12:30.280 just, quote,

00:12:30.900 doing one's own

00:12:31.660 research,

00:12:32.380 is guaranteed

00:12:33.580 to produce

00:12:34.320 more errors,

00:12:35.600 at least in

00:12:36.100 the aggregate.

00:12:37.580 After all,

00:12:38.140 what is one

00:12:38.640 doing when

00:12:39.740 one is, quote,

00:12:40.380 doing one's

00:12:41.000 own research,

00:12:42.220 if not seeking

00:12:43.140 out what the

00:12:43.720 best authorities

00:12:44.620 have to say

00:12:45.360 on a given

00:12:45.980 topic?

00:12:47.040 What the

00:12:47.700 phrase doing

00:12:48.200 your own

00:12:48.540 research usually

00:12:49.320 refers to are

00:12:50.620 the efforts that

00:12:51.100 people make to

00:12:51.720 sort through

00:12:52.240 information,

00:12:53.660 mostly online,

00:12:55.040 when they no

00:12:55.620 longer trust what

00:12:57.140 most mainstream

00:12:57.940 experts have to

00:12:58.940 say.

00:13:00.000 Usually what this

00:13:00.700 means is that

00:13:01.100 they have gone

00:13:01.640 in search of

00:13:02.220 other voices that

00:13:03.560 are telling them

00:13:04.140 what they want

00:13:04.540 to hear,

00:13:05.400 or perhaps what

00:13:06.000 they don't want

00:13:06.520 to hear,

00:13:07.180 but it's now

00:13:07.600 coming with a

00:13:08.140 compelling

00:13:08.540 conspiratorial or

00:13:10.040 contrarian slant.

00:13:12.160 You don't trust

00:13:12.920 what the most

00:13:13.300 respected doctors

00:13:14.400 have to say,

00:13:15.600 because you think

00:13:16.080 they've all been

00:13:16.560 captured by big

00:13:17.420 pharma,

00:13:18.120 perhaps,

00:13:18.780 so you found a

00:13:19.300 guy in Tijuana

00:13:20.060 who says he can

00:13:21.120 cure your cancer.

00:13:22.400 You don't trust

00:13:23.160 what the Mayo Clinic

00:13:24.000 says about vaccines,

00:13:25.560 and now you're

00:13:26.000 afraid to get your

00:13:26.660 kids vaccinated,

00:13:27.820 because you've

00:13:28.680 listened to 14

00:13:29.420 hours of RFK

00:13:30.400 Jr.

00:13:31.140 on podcasts,

00:13:32.260 and now you've

00:13:33.240 started trusting

00:13:34.080 him as,

00:13:36.040 what,

00:13:37.100 a new authority.

00:13:39.260 We can't break

00:13:40.440 free of the

00:13:41.280 circle of

00:13:41.960 authority.

00:13:43.320 Of course,

00:13:43.700 I'm not denying

00:13:44.380 that it's possible

00:13:45.120 to do truly

00:13:45.840 original research

00:13:46.960 where you

00:13:48.060 become the

00:13:48.880 new authority,

00:13:49.700 but that is not

00:13:50.600 what we're talking

00:13:51.200 about here.

00:13:52.760 Doing one's own

00:13:53.740 research almost

00:13:54.680 never entails

00:13:55.800 running the

00:13:56.900 relevant experiments

00:13:57.780 in virology

00:13:58.820 oneself,

00:14:00.220 or searching

00:14:00.720 the Soviet

00:14:01.240 archives

00:14:02.020 oneself,

00:14:03.420 or translating

00:14:04.160 the speech

00:14:04.720 from Arabic

00:14:05.340 oneself,

00:14:06.640 or interviewing

00:14:07.460 the long-dead

00:14:08.300 politician

00:14:09.000 oneself.

00:14:10.500 Most of the

00:14:11.380 time,

00:14:11.680 we simply

00:14:12.140 have to trust

00:14:13.180 that other

00:14:14.260 people did

00:14:14.980 their work

00:14:15.500 responsibly,

00:14:16.560 that their

00:14:17.080 data isn't

00:14:17.900 fabricated,

00:14:19.200 that they

00:14:19.520 didn't devote

00:14:20.000 their entire

00:14:20.700 careers to

00:14:22.080 perpetrating

00:14:22.720 an elaborate

00:14:23.360 hoax.

00:14:24.660 Again,

00:14:25.080 there are

00:14:25.560 exceptions,

00:14:26.840 but they are

00:14:27.300 simply not

00:14:27.960 relevant most

00:14:29.140 of the time.

00:14:30.020 That is what

00:14:30.640 it means to

00:14:31.260 be an

00:14:31.500 exception.

00:14:33.020 Most of

00:14:33.480 the time,

00:14:34.060 if you no

00:14:34.640 longer trust

00:14:35.320 the experts,

00:14:36.320 you've started

00:14:36.960 trusting someone's

00:14:38.080 uncle.

00:14:39.380 Most of the

00:14:39.860 time,

00:14:40.380 real experts,

00:14:41.740 who have been

00:14:42.380 trained in the

00:14:43.180 relevant disciplines,

00:14:44.740 through real

00:14:45.520 institutions,

00:14:47.060 offer the best

00:14:47.740 approximation of

00:14:48.640 our knowledge

00:14:49.280 within a field.

00:14:50.760 This is no

00:14:51.700 more debatable

00:14:52.420 than the claim

00:14:53.360 that most of

00:14:54.060 the time,

00:14:54.500 our best

00:14:55.440 basketball

00:14:56.040 players are

00:14:56.900 in the

00:14:57.160 NBA.

00:14:58.260 Is it

00:14:58.540 possible to

00:14:58.980 find someone

00:14:59.320 outside the

00:15:00.120 NBA who's

00:15:00.780 amazing at

00:15:01.460 basketball?

00:15:02.700 Of course.

00:15:03.840 Is it also

00:15:04.320 possible to

00:15:04.860 find someone

00:15:05.280 in the

00:15:05.760 NBA who

00:15:06.440 shouldn't be

00:15:06.920 there?

00:15:07.800 Probably.

00:15:09.020 Though it's

00:15:09.300 also safe to

00:15:09.840 say that such

00:15:10.260 a person will

00:15:10.680 spend most of

00:15:11.180 his time

00:15:11.500 sitting on

00:15:11.900 the bench,

00:15:13.160 it is simply

00:15:13.600 a fact that

00:15:14.120 if you had

00:15:14.440 to find the

00:15:14.980 best basketball

00:15:15.880 players in

00:15:16.500 America in

00:15:17.920 some reasonable

00:15:18.560 time frame,

00:15:19.800 you could do

00:15:20.220 a lot worse

00:15:21.040 than grab the

00:15:22.020 NBA All-Stars

00:15:23.040 from any

00:15:23.840 given year.

00:15:25.300 And so it

00:15:25.740 is with

00:15:26.060 scientists and

00:15:27.100 historians and

00:15:28.420 other specialists

00:15:29.080 at our most

00:15:29.640 elite institutions.

00:15:31.240 And there are

00:15:31.880 two important

00:15:32.580 caveats to

00:15:33.760 this general

00:15:34.260 rule.

00:15:35.120 The first is

00:15:35.880 that there

00:15:36.160 are fake

00:15:37.000 disciplines,

00:15:38.400 or those that

00:15:38.940 are mostly

00:15:39.320 fake, whole

00:15:40.760 fields of

00:15:41.440 scholarship that

00:15:42.660 pretend to be

00:15:43.420 scientific, or

00:15:44.600 at least

00:15:44.880 intellectually

00:15:45.400 rigorous, but

00:15:46.880 they are mostly

00:15:47.520 or entirely a

00:15:49.100 sham.

00:15:50.380 And secondly,

00:15:50.940 there are real

00:15:51.520 areas of

00:15:52.100 scholarship,

00:15:53.040 that have

00:15:53.320 been corrupted

00:15:53.920 to one or

00:15:54.680 another degree

00:15:55.260 by politics

00:15:56.280 or other

00:15:57.120 bad incentives.

00:15:58.700 For instance,

00:15:59.220 one cannot,

00:15:59.980 with any

00:16:00.340 confidence,

00:16:01.280 venture into

00:16:01.680 a department

00:16:02.160 of Middle 0.86

00:16:02.540 Eastern studies

00:16:03.340 at an

00:16:03.680 American

00:16:03.980 university and

00:16:05.140 get a morally

00:16:05.780 sane, much

00:16:07.000 less accurate

00:16:07.680 account of the

00:16:08.360 conflict between

00:16:09.040 Israel and

00:16:09.460 the Palestinians,

00:16:10.740 or between

00:16:11.240 Western values

00:16:12.240 and those of

00:16:12.780 conservative Islam.

00:16:14.620 But the

00:16:14.940 reasons for

00:16:15.580 that failure

00:16:16.220 are also

00:16:17.140 knowable and

00:16:18.320 ultimately

00:16:18.700 correctable.

00:16:19.940 I mean,

00:16:20.080 one reason is

00:16:20.620 that Qatar,

00:16:21.820 an Islamic

00:16:22.320 theocracy and

00:16:23.260 patron of

00:16:23.880 terrorists, 0.70

00:16:25.020 has given

00:16:25.400 more money

00:16:26.100 to U.S.

00:16:26.740 universities than

00:16:27.940 any other

00:16:28.700 country on

00:16:29.540 earth has.

00:16:30.920 This is a

00:16:31.540 totally bizarre

00:16:32.500 situation that

00:16:33.340 fairly shrieks of 0.96

00:16:34.460 intellectual

00:16:34.980 corruption,

00:16:36.020 if not

00:16:36.460 suicide.

00:16:37.740 But again,

00:16:38.440 the problem

00:16:38.960 here is

00:16:39.540 understandable,

00:16:41.020 and can be

00:16:41.620 fixed, and

00:16:42.860 it is simply

00:16:43.280 one version of

00:16:44.100 the problem of

00:16:44.820 bad incentives.

00:16:46.100 The reason to

00:16:47.020 worry about bad

00:16:47.660 incentives is

00:16:48.900 is that we

00:16:49.100 understand how

00:16:50.120 they corrupt

00:16:50.660 people.

00:16:51.780 This is why

00:16:52.160 the Upton

00:16:52.580 Sinclair line

00:16:53.540 is so famous,

00:16:54.700 because it

00:16:55.460 captures a

00:16:55.960 perennial problem

00:16:56.720 in society.

00:16:58.000 It is difficult

00:16:58.440 to get a man 0.94

00:16:58.980 to understand

00:16:59.640 something when

00:17:00.260 his salary

00:17:00.820 depends on

00:17:01.480 his not

00:17:01.900 understanding

00:17:02.460 it.

00:17:03.420 Of course,

00:17:03.820 this relates

00:17:04.240 to what I

00:17:04.540 was saying

00:17:04.820 about my

00:17:05.160 business model

00:17:05.780 a few

00:17:06.360 moments ago.

00:17:07.740 Insofar as

00:17:08.400 it's possible,

00:17:09.580 you want to

00:17:10.380 remove the

00:17:10.960 bad incentives

00:17:11.680 from your

00:17:12.300 life.

00:17:13.280 And collectively,

00:17:14.600 we have to

00:17:15.420 worry about

00:17:15.840 bad incentives

00:17:16.640 distorting our

00:17:17.900 view of

00:17:18.340 what's

00:17:18.600 important or

00:17:19.640 even of

00:17:20.020 what is

00:17:20.380 real.

00:17:21.940 Now, most

00:17:22.500 of the

00:17:22.700 current

00:17:22.960 skepticism

00:17:23.560 about

00:17:23.940 establishment

00:17:24.840 institutions

00:17:25.540 and about

00:17:26.320 mainstream

00:17:26.740 expertise

00:17:27.540 generally is

00:17:29.080 the result

00:17:29.400 of the

00:17:29.660 various

00:17:29.980 failures of

00:17:30.740 scientific

00:17:31.100 thinking and

00:17:31.780 communication

00:17:32.320 that occurred

00:17:32.880 during the

00:17:33.260 COVID pandemic.

00:17:34.820 While many

00:17:35.560 of these

00:17:35.800 failures were

00:17:36.540 significant,

00:17:37.720 there is no

00:17:38.160 question that

00:17:39.040 they have been

00:17:39.420 magnified and

00:17:40.560 distorted by

00:17:41.720 our politics.

00:17:42.860 In a previous

00:17:43.720 podcast, I

00:17:44.500 made an

00:17:44.880 invidious

00:17:45.340 comparison between

00:17:46.400 Anthony Fauci and

00:17:47.620 Francis Collins,

00:17:49.000 two doctors who

00:17:49.720 are now widely

00:17:50.460 demonized right of

00:17:51.880 center, and

00:17:53.040 RFK Jr.

00:17:54.620 My point wasn't

00:17:55.520 to absolve

00:17:56.620 Fauci and

00:17:57.220 Collins of all

00:17:57.900 responsibility for

00:17:58.880 mismanaging our

00:17:59.640 response to

00:18:00.180 COVID.

00:18:01.240 For all I know,

00:18:02.020 both men should

00:18:02.720 be investigated.

00:18:03.900 I have no idea

00:18:04.860 what we would

00:18:05.560 find.

00:18:06.360 I was simply

00:18:06.800 pointing out that

00:18:07.380 these guys exist

00:18:08.360 within a culture

00:18:09.140 of science where

00:18:10.460 intellectual

00:18:10.960 embarrassment, and

00:18:12.400 worse, is

00:18:13.500 still possible.

00:18:14.220 RFK Jr.

00:18:16.740 doesn't.

00:18:17.700 He is a

00:18:18.240 crackpot and

00:18:19.360 a conspiracy

00:18:20.060 nut.

00:18:20.900 That doesn't

00:18:21.460 mean he's wrong

00:18:22.080 about everything,

00:18:23.140 and that doesn't

00:18:23.680 mean turning him

00:18:24.460 loose on the

00:18:24.940 bureaucracy of the

00:18:25.700 HHS might not do

00:18:27.240 some good.

00:18:28.320 Perhaps it will.

00:18:29.860 Is he the best

00:18:30.660 person to do that

00:18:31.900 good?

00:18:32.620 Of course not.

00:18:34.040 But it is possible

00:18:35.300 for the wrong

00:18:35.960 person to

00:18:37.020 occasionally do

00:18:37.840 the right thing.

00:18:39.440 However, whatever

00:18:40.600 good RFK Jr.

00:18:42.100 may accomplish

00:18:42.800 in the future,

00:18:44.260 my point stands.

00:18:46.020 Unlike Fauci or

00:18:47.100 Collins, he has

00:18:48.560 no intellectual

00:18:49.500 reputation to

00:18:50.440 maintain.

00:18:51.600 He can drag a 0.99

00:18:52.560 dead bear into

00:18:53.640 Central Park and

00:18:54.560 stage a fake

00:18:55.340 bike accident

00:18:56.120 with it, and it

00:18:57.420 just serves to

00:18:58.240 burnish his brand

00:18:59.440 for his idiotic 0.94

00:19:00.660 fans.

00:19:01.600 He can also

00:19:02.320 spread lies and

00:19:03.320 misinformation about

00:19:04.280 vaccines in a

00:19:06.000 multi-decade

00:19:07.020 contrarian grift,

00:19:09.000 and he will

00:19:09.680 continue to thrive in

00:19:11.400 a parallel reality

00:19:12.560 where Andrew

00:19:13.900 Wakefield, the

00:19:15.320 fraud who

00:19:15.860 originally linked

00:19:16.560 the MMR vaccine

00:19:17.660 with autism, is

00:19:19.140 considered an

00:19:19.780 unfairly maligned

00:19:21.040 scientific authority.

00:19:22.600 If Fauci and

00:19:23.840 Collins, or any

00:19:25.060 other scientists,

00:19:26.440 are guilty of

00:19:27.180 scientific misconduct,

00:19:28.900 that is something

00:19:29.660 that can be found

00:19:30.360 out, and their 0.67

00:19:31.440 reputations will

00:19:32.640 really suffer.

00:19:34.320 Not among

00:19:34.820 cultists and

00:19:35.900 freaks, but among

00:19:37.420 the people who

00:19:38.100 hold their

00:19:38.720 reputations in

00:19:39.960 trust, other

00:19:41.580 scientists, real

00:19:43.920 scientists and

00:19:45.060 scholars and

00:19:45.960 journalists can be

00:19:47.480 convicted of

00:19:48.220 misconduct or

00:19:49.680 hypocrisy or some

00:19:51.380 other betrayal of

00:19:52.320 intellectual standards

00:19:53.400 because they have

00:19:54.900 such standards to

00:19:56.280 betray.

00:19:57.340 There are no

00:19:57.960 standards of

00:19:58.920 intellectual integrity

00:19:59.840 in Trumpistan, and

00:20:02.100 there are no

00:20:02.440 standards of ethical

00:20:03.480 integrity either.

00:20:05.740 If you live there,

00:20:07.020 it is literally

00:20:07.660 impossible to be a

00:20:09.220 hypocrite. 0.86

00:20:10.420 In Trump's orbit, if

00:20:11.400 you're caught cheating

00:20:12.380 on your wife or

00:20:13.680 your taxes, you can

00:20:15.400 say, whoever said I

00:20:17.060 wasn't going to cheat

00:20:18.200 on my wife or my

00:20:19.100 taxes, fuck you, and 1.00

00:20:21.860 you win.

00:20:23.340 The truth is, RFK

00:20:24.760 Jr. doesn't belong

00:20:26.260 anywhere near the

00:20:27.880 levers of power that

00:20:29.360 govern health policy in

00:20:30.820 America.

00:20:31.900 But again, this

00:20:33.440 doesn't mean that he's

00:20:34.380 wrong about everything,

00:20:35.640 and it doesn't mean that

00:20:36.820 he can't possibly do

00:20:38.100 some good, and I

00:20:39.660 hope he does if he

00:20:40.660 actually gets

00:20:41.140 confirmed.

00:20:42.720 There are bad

00:20:43.740 incentives in the

00:20:44.520 business of medicine

00:20:45.360 and medical insurance

00:20:46.740 and pharmaceuticals, and

00:20:48.740 it would be very good

00:20:49.780 for someone to try to

00:20:51.020 sort them out.

00:20:52.140 These are very basic

00:20:53.700 distinctions I'm making,

00:20:55.840 but over on X, that

00:20:57.840 paradise for free

00:20:58.980 speech, and on many

00:21:00.420 prominent podcasts, such

00:21:02.460 distinctions appear

00:21:03.340 impossible to understand.

00:21:04.680 There are edge cases, of

00:21:07.180 course, that can be

00:21:08.300 genuinely difficult to

00:21:09.180 resolve.

00:21:10.580 For instance, what about

00:21:11.340 the possibility of the

00:21:12.600 lone, self-taught genius

00:21:14.540 who just comes crashing

00:21:16.080 through established

00:21:17.080 orthodoxy, bearing a new

00:21:18.920 gospel?

00:21:20.120 How do we recognize that

00:21:21.380 when it arrives?

00:21:22.960 Conversely, and much more

00:21:24.260 common, what about the

00:21:26.120 pedigreed expert who looks

00:21:27.760 perfect on paper?

00:21:29.120 He's got all the right

00:21:29.880 degrees and is published in

00:21:31.160 good journals, but due to

00:21:33.040 some quirk in his wiring, he

00:21:35.280 becomes a crank, or a

00:21:36.740 lunatic, and now he's on

00:21:38.400 Joe Rogan's podcast, and

00:21:40.180 somewhere around the four

00:21:41.140 hour mark, he divulges that

00:21:42.720 he was once abducted and

00:21:44.040 lavishly probed by

00:21:45.560 extraterrestrials.

00:21:47.340 It should be obvious that

00:21:48.260 either way, mere

00:21:49.380 credentialism isn't a

00:21:51.500 perfect filter.

00:21:53.300 A PhD from Caltech

00:21:54.560 guarantees something.

00:21:56.500 It more or less guarantees

00:21:57.580 that a person is smart, but

00:21:59.560 it can't guarantee that they

00:22:01.060 are sane, and it really is

00:22:03.040 possible for someone to

00:22:03.900 come from outside a field

00:22:05.360 and make important

00:22:06.480 contributions within it.

00:22:08.580 There is no formula for

00:22:09.920 resolving doubt in such

00:22:11.520 cases, beyond getting other

00:22:13.320 smart people who are

00:22:14.400 adequate to the

00:22:15.160 conversation, that is, other

00:22:17.240 real authorities, to render

00:22:19.320 their judgment.

00:22:20.480 Whether to spend time doing

00:22:21.880 this oneself and risk wasting

00:22:24.200 time, or harder still,

00:22:26.180 whether to give such a

00:22:26.840 person a public platform so

00:22:28.760 that many more people can

00:22:29.540 hear and respond to their

00:22:30.880 views can be hard to

00:22:32.400 decide, and I've made no

00:22:34.080 secret of the fact that I

00:22:34.960 think other prominent

00:22:35.900 podcasters have screwed this

00:22:37.500 up repeatedly.

00:22:39.380 Many have made a habit of

00:22:40.460 talking to people who quite

00:22:41.640 obviously don't clear the

00:22:43.700 bar, and it's embarrassing.

00:22:46.440 What's more, it's been

00:22:47.100 damaging to the public

00:22:48.080 conversation about several

00:22:49.300 important issues.

00:22:51.060 However, I'm probably guilty

00:22:52.220 of making some bad calls

00:22:53.320 myself, and I will probably

00:22:55.020 make mistakes in the future.

00:22:56.160 But these are edge cases for a

00:22:59.120 reason.

00:23:00.000 They're hard to figure out.

00:23:01.940 My general policy is that the

00:23:03.160 most respected mainstream

00:23:05.020 voices on most topics are

00:23:07.880 generally worth listening to.

00:23:09.900 Again, in many fields, on many

00:23:12.420 topics, it's like finding your

00:23:14.140 next free-throw shooter in the

00:23:15.580 NBA.

00:23:16.580 Not a bad place to look.

00:23:18.980 Of course, there are

00:23:20.420 exceptions, but RFK Jr. on

00:23:23.120 vaccines isn't one of them, and

00:23:25.780 neither is the comedian Dave

00:23:27.200 Smith on U.S.

00:23:28.320 foreign policy.

00:23:29.760 Nor is Tucker Carlson on any

00:23:32.040 topic, other than what the

00:23:34.140 hell happened to him.

00:23:36.080 Those are easy calls.

00:23:39.000 We're watching our political,

00:23:40.760 intellectual, and even moral

00:23:42.380 culture get torched every hour

00:23:45.800 of the day on social media.

00:23:48.700 And Elon Musk is now one of the

00:23:50.160 greatest arsonists out there.

00:23:52.020 While he and his fans pretend

00:23:54.100 that he's the fire marshal

00:23:55.300 coming to the rescue.

00:23:57.340 Elon is being celebrated by

00:23:59.360 legions of credulous and

00:24:01.860 self-deceived people as the

00:24:04.040 person who is doing more than

00:24:05.320 anyone to restore and protect

00:24:07.340 the integrity of our public

00:24:08.620 conversation, while he's

00:24:10.640 probably doing more than anyone

00:24:12.060 to sabotage it.

00:24:13.720 He's become almost an apostle of

00:24:15.960 a new religion whose sacrament is

00:24:18.880 algorithmically amplified

00:24:20.320 bullshit, and like many

00:24:22.320 religious figures, he simply

00:24:23.760 does not care about misleading

00:24:25.900 people.

00:24:26.780 He isn't noticing his errors,

00:24:29.240 much less correcting them, to

00:24:30.820 say nothing of apologizing for

00:24:32.440 them.

00:24:33.360 And if you notice them for him,

00:24:36.220 you become his enemy, fit only to

00:24:38.240 be smeared and lied about in his

00:24:40.600 digital hall of mirrors.

00:24:42.700 You have to be able to hold two

00:24:44.200 thoughts in your head at the same

00:24:45.560 moment.

00:24:45.860 Yes, the man is the most talented

00:24:48.440 entrepreneur of his generation, and

00:24:51.100 yes, he has become a total

00:24:52.440 asshole.

00:24:53.940 And to call him reckless and

00:24:55.560 irresponsible is an understatement.

00:24:58.900 He simply does not care if he

00:25:01.380 spreads dangerous, defamatory

00:25:03.320 lies.

00:25:04.640 And if you wonder whether I tried my

00:25:06.100 best to get through to him in

00:25:07.200 private before saying this sort of

00:25:08.960 thing in public, I did.

00:25:10.680 And it has been nauseating to watch

00:25:14.580 Elon pass the various loyalty

00:25:16.260 tests laid out for him by Trump,

00:25:19.280 minimizing the significance of

00:25:20.620 January 6th, for instance.

00:25:22.960 It's interesting to wonder what role

00:25:24.620 incentives could play here.

00:25:26.800 I mean, how has the richest and one

00:25:28.560 of the most famous and powerful men

00:25:30.280 on earth been incentivized to behave

00:25:33.660 this way?

00:25:34.940 Well, as I've said before, I think

00:25:36.340 social media has played a major role

00:25:38.140 here.

00:25:38.560 At some point, Elon became a kind of

00:25:41.280 attention monster, which is what

00:25:43.360 Trump has always been.

00:25:45.440 I think it's safe to say that

00:25:46.420 attention, especially adulation, from

00:25:49.320 the wrong audience, is bad for you.

00:25:52.780 In any case, if you think that concerns

00:25:54.760 about misinformation and

00:25:56.960 disinformation and the spread of

00:25:59.040 conspiracy thinking are just fake,

00:26:02.260 they're just smokescreens thrown up by

00:26:03.940 people who don't like free speech and

00:26:06.140 favor government censorship, and you

00:26:08.540 think all the freewheeling fuckery on

00:26:10.520 social media from Trump and Elon is

00:26:12.440 necessary and noble, you're in a cult.

00:26:16.360 Spreading obvious lies is not necessary

00:26:19.700 or noble.

00:26:21.440 Amplifying baseless and divisive

00:26:23.560 conspiracy theories and ridicule and

00:26:27.080 hatred isn't necessary or noble.

00:26:30.220 But this is what Trump and Elon have done

00:26:33.500 at scale for years now.

00:26:37.380 If you're politically right of center, and

00:26:39.940 you believe that the problem of conspiracy

00:26:41.420 thinking is exaggerated, what do you think

00:26:44.540 about it over on the left?

00:26:46.780 Admittedly, it's not as big a problem over

00:26:48.700 there, but it definitely exists.

00:26:51.640 And for instance, there are people who

00:26:52.980 believe that Trump faked that first

00:26:55.820 assassination attempt against him.

00:26:57.260 Have you heard about this?

00:26:59.320 Like most conspiracy theories, it's ridiculous.

00:27:02.280 But there are people who believe this.

00:27:04.780 If you don't like the phrase conspiracy

00:27:06.960 theory, one stigmatizes some of the

00:27:09.340 Trumpist garbage you're attached to.

00:27:12.160 Do you resist its application here to the

00:27:15.360 truly ludicrous idea that Trump hired someone

00:27:19.060 to shoot him in the ear?

00:27:20.080 The shooter killed an innocent person and

00:27:23.120 then got killed himself for all the

00:27:25.520 trouble he took to perfectly nick Trump's

00:27:28.160 ear.

00:27:29.180 What do you think about a person whose

00:27:31.100 adventures online, just doing his own

00:27:33.260 research, have convinced him that this is

00:27:35.640 the best explanation of what we all saw?

00:27:39.720 The problem of misinformation runs the

00:27:41.960 other way, too.

00:27:43.120 And I've defended Trump against the most

00:27:44.560 glaring instance of it.

00:27:46.240 Not the so-called Russia-gate or Russia-collusion

00:27:48.640 hoax.

00:27:49.760 Any of you who have these phrases rattling

00:27:51.500 around in your head are, again, in a cult.

00:27:54.840 And you have forgotten, if you ever even

00:27:56.980 knew, all the ways in which Trump and his

00:27:59.620 2016 campaign were compromised by weird

00:28:02.280 connections to Russia.

00:28:03.960 The fact that Paul Manafort was running

00:28:05.960 his campaign, in and of itself, was worthy

00:28:09.300 of investigation.

00:28:11.040 Lobbying for foreign interests was that

00:28:12.760 guy's whole career.

00:28:14.640 Even Republican senators acknowledged that

00:28:16.700 Manafort posed a serious counterintelligence

00:28:19.020 risk, and he proved to be such an upstanding

00:28:21.360 citizen that he was sentenced to years in

00:28:23.840 prison.

00:28:24.980 Of course, Trump then pardoned him.

00:28:27.460 Nothing to see here, fellas.

00:28:29.660 Trump's corruption has always been in plain

00:28:32.640 view, and has never acquired allegations of a

00:28:35.560 hidden criminal conspiracy.

00:28:37.620 Anyone who uses the phrase, Russiagate, or the

00:28:41.040 Russia-collusion hoax, is guaranteed to be wrong

00:28:44.560 about what the Mueller report actually said.

00:28:47.220 The truth is, you have no idea what was in the

00:28:49.940 Mueller report, and you don't care.

00:28:52.400 And ditto for the January 6th commission report.

00:28:55.560 You're not tracking any of this, because you're

00:28:58.320 in a cult.

00:28:59.860 It's the cult of, who gives a shit, you elitist

00:29:02.560 asshole?

00:29:03.500 Burn it all down.

00:29:05.700 The clearest case of misinformation against

00:29:07.780 Trump, that I'm aware of, was the very fine people on

00:29:11.200 both sides, calumny.

00:29:13.700 And almost everyone left of center still believes

00:29:16.180 that after that rally in Charlottesville, Trump

00:29:18.960 praised the assembled neo-Nazis and white

00:29:21.100 supremacists as, quote, very fine people.

00:29:24.500 They believe this because a clip from one of his

00:29:26.380 press conferences was edited to make it seem like

00:29:29.220 he said this.

00:29:30.540 We are being driven insane as a species, one

00:29:35.300 misleading clip at a time.

00:29:37.020 As I've pointed out many times before, if you watch

00:29:40.600 Trump's remarks in context, you will see that the

00:29:43.220 claim that he was praising neo-Nazis and white

00:29:45.680 supremacists is a lie.

00:29:47.980 And I have debunked this lie many, many times, both on

00:29:51.260 this podcast and in print, to the consternation of

00:29:54.740 people on the left who just want to score points against

00:29:57.160 Trump and Trumpism without any concern for their own

00:30:00.380 ethical or intellectual integrity.

00:30:02.960 Needless to say, I've done this not out of any love for

00:30:05.020 Trump or his influence on our politics, but out of a

00:30:08.440 hatred for lies.

00:30:10.780 But Trump and Elon and the cults that they have built are

00:30:15.420 comfortable with lies and half-truths and endless

00:30:19.720 bullshit.

00:30:20.920 They are perfectly content to watch our political culture

00:30:23.720 succumb to an algorithmically mediated delirium.

00:30:28.300 And they seem to have no concern about destroying important

00:30:30.740 institutions.

00:30:31.400 And in many cases, declare themselves eager to destroy

00:30:34.820 them.

00:30:35.840 Again, I'm not rooting for these guys to fail.

00:30:39.560 And nothing I've said here is predicated on the conviction

00:30:41.980 that they will.

00:30:43.480 All of my complaints about Trump and Elon and their leveraging of

00:30:47.840 populist irrationality and rage refer to harms that have

00:30:51.860 already occurred.

00:30:53.680 Moral injuries to our society that we have already suffered.

00:30:57.300 dangerous lies that were already told, with the full knowledge that

00:31:02.860 they were lies.

00:31:04.360 Who knows what will happen in the future?

00:31:07.560 At least it will not be boring.

00:31:10.900 Thanks for listening.

00:31:11.720 Thanks for listening.

00:31:26.800 Amen.

Making Sense - Sam Harris - December 11, 2024

#395 — Intellectual Authority and Its Discontents

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