Making Sense - Sam Harris - February 14, 2023


Making Sense of Free Will | Episode 5 of The Essential Sam Harris


Episode Stats

Length

44 minutes

Words per Minute

152.30547

Word Count

6,745

Sentence Count

118

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary

The goal of this series is to organize, compile, and juxtapose conversations hosted by Sam Harris into specific areas of interest. This is an ongoing effort to construct a coherent overview of Sam s perspectives and arguments, the various explorations and approaches to the topic, the relevant agreements and disagreements, and the pushbacks and evolving thoughts which his guests have advanced. The purpose of these compilations is not to provide a complete picture of any issue, but to entice you to go deeper into these subjects. Along the way, we ll point you to the full episodes with each featured guest, and at the conclusion, we'll offer some reading, listening, and watching suggestions which range from fun and light to densely academic. Sam has long argued for a unity of knowledge, where the barriers between fields of study are viewed as largely unhelpful artifacts of unnecessarily partitioned thought. The pursuit of wisdom and reason in one area of study naturally bleeds into, and greatly affects, others. And hopefully, you'll also understand how it is that when Sam connects the dots of the universe with logical argumentation and careful observation of our first-person experiences, he firmly argues that the concept of free will is incoherent and the sense that we have it is illusory. Let's make sense of it. This is a topic that's notorious for its linguistic dead ends, and frequent inklings that everyone might be talking past one another. So we'll try our best to navigate this famously thorny subject, and highlight the failure points that can derail the conversation and derail the whole thing, so that we can find a way to get to the root cause of the problem at hand. Thanks to our sponsors, and to our listeners who make it all the best we can get the most out of this thing we're trying to understand it. We don't run ads on the podcast and therefore are made possible entirely through the support of our subscribers. . Become a supporter of the podcast, and therefore become a supporter by becoming a supporter. So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one! Subscribe to the Making Sense Podcast, become a subscriber, become one, and help us make sense of what we re doing here! and become a member of the community! You'll get a better listening experience, and you'll get access to all sorts of great podcasts, including the latest and the best ones we're making sense of the things we're listening to.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast.
00:00:08.820 This is Sam Harris.
00:00:10.880 Just a note to say that if you're hearing this, you are not currently on our subscriber
00:00:14.680 feed and will only be hearing the first part of this conversation.
00:00:18.420 In order to access full episodes of the Making Sense Podcast, you'll need to subscribe at
00:00:22.720 samharris.org.
00:00:24.060 There you'll find our private RSS feed to add to your favorite podcatcher, along with
00:00:28.360 other subscriber-only content.
00:00:30.520 We don't run ads on the podcast, and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support
00:00:34.640 of our subscribers.
00:00:35.900 So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one.
00:00:49.600 Welcome to the Essential Sam Harris.
00:00:52.580 This is Making Sense of Free Will.
00:00:55.160 The goal of this series is to organize, compile, and juxtapose conversations hosted by Sam
00:01:02.240 Harris into specific areas of interest.
00:01:05.760 This is an ongoing effort to construct a coherent overview of Sam's perspectives and arguments,
00:01:11.280 the various explorations and approaches to the topic, the relevant agreements and disagreements,
00:01:17.540 and the pushbacks and evolving thoughts which his guests have advanced.
00:01:21.100 The purpose of these compilations is not to provide a complete picture of any issue,
00:01:28.020 but to entice you to go deeper into these subjects.
00:01:31.420 Along the way, we'll point you to the full episodes with each featured guest.
00:01:36.100 And at the conclusion, we'll offer some reading, listening, and watching suggestions,
00:01:41.180 which range from fun and light to densely academic.
00:01:44.000 One note to keep in mind for this series.
00:01:48.720 Sam has long argued for a unity of knowledge where the barriers between fields of study
00:01:53.100 are viewed as largely unhelpful artifacts of unnecessarily partitioned thought.
00:01:58.560 The pursuit of wisdom and reason in one area of study naturally bleeds into,
00:02:03.340 and greatly affects, others.
00:02:05.140 You'll hear plenty of crossover into other topics as these dives into the archives unfold.
00:02:11.600 And your thinking about a particular topic may shift
00:02:14.180 as you realize its contingent relationships with others.
00:02:17.780 In this topic, you'll hear the natural overlap with theories of consciousness,
00:02:22.140 artificial intelligence, belief and unbelief,
00:02:25.700 ethics, violence and pacifism,
00:02:28.740 epistemology and knowledge,
00:02:30.700 and more.
00:02:31.180 So, get ready.
00:02:34.720 Let's make sense of free will.
00:02:40.700 Free will is a topic that's notorious for its linguistic dead ends
00:02:44.560 and frequent inklings that everyone might be talking past one another.
00:02:48.860 There's a lot of retracing of one's steps
00:02:50.860 and trying to find the snag in the line that seems to be jamming the whole thing up.
00:02:55.580 The conversation can drift into helpless semantic arguments
00:02:58.840 disguised as genuine differences.
00:03:02.060 It's rife with charges of intentional misunderstanding,
00:03:05.420 and it's littered with contentions that someone is changing the subject
00:03:08.520 or shifting definitions in order to rescue a,
00:03:11.660 maybe psychologically necessary,
00:03:13.760 but ultimately disingenuous picture of the universe.
00:03:16.880 So, we'll try our best to navigate this famously thorny subject
00:03:20.720 and highlight the failure points that can derail the conversation.
00:03:24.020 You may not end this compilation with a perfectly clear answer
00:03:28.560 to the timeless question of whether we have free will,
00:03:31.360 but you will come to know which constellations of philosophical positions
00:03:36.120 lead to a consistent stance.
00:03:38.600 And hopefully, you'll also understand clearly how it is
00:03:42.000 that when Sam connects the dots of the universe
00:03:44.180 with logical argumentation and careful observation of our first-person experiences,
00:03:49.140 he firmly argues that the concept of free will is incoherent
00:03:53.560 and the sense that we have it is illusory.
00:03:57.280 The topic of free will is so intimately related to the subject of consciousness
00:04:01.660 that it would be incomplete and unwise
00:04:04.100 to leave out the contingent stances that tie the two together.
00:04:07.960 You can imagine many conditional statements about the nature of consciousness
00:04:11.340 that act as logic gates in a conception of free will.
00:04:15.760 A logic gate is an if-then statement of analytics.
00:04:19.640 If condition A is true,
00:04:21.800 then the truth of condition B must follow.
00:04:25.220 For example, if the Earth is spherical,
00:04:28.060 then it's night on the opposite side of where it's day.
00:04:31.660 It's quite possible that committing to a particular epistemological approach
00:04:35.800 inevitably leads to diametric positions on consciousness and free will.
00:04:40.900 The two deep ideas may be locked in a forever flip-flopping inverse relationship
00:04:45.580 destined to always be fighting it out over which one is merely an illusion
00:04:49.900 and which one couldn't be.
00:04:52.400 The flipping of these values might occur
00:04:54.460 as we move from first-person to third-person vantage points
00:04:57.460 and up and down the scales of analysis of the universe.
00:05:01.660 But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.
00:05:04.540 Let's first try to establish a touchpoint for a general notion
00:05:07.840 and common feeling of free will.
00:05:10.500 This is a feeling that Sam is convinced is very widely held
00:05:13.960 and what the ordinary usage of the term free will refers to.
00:05:17.940 So, you chose to listen to this episode, right?
00:05:24.560 You saw it listed as an option,
00:05:26.820 thought about it,
00:05:28.100 chose to click it,
00:05:29.180 and here you are.
00:05:31.180 But you also feel like you didn't have to, right?
00:05:34.740 You could have clicked on a different topic,
00:05:37.080 or a song,
00:05:38.120 or you could have decided to do something else entirely.
00:05:40.920 That feeling that you could have done otherwise
00:05:44.560 at any point in the past
00:05:46.400 is pointing towards what's called libertarian free will.
00:05:51.960 Sam contends that this is what most people feel like they actually have
00:05:55.580 and what most people mean
00:05:57.540 when they casually claim to have free will.
00:06:01.140 Sam argues that this kind of free will
00:06:03.300 is an illusion that evaporates when you examine it closely.
00:06:06.600 So, let's see what he means.
00:06:10.000 If we rewound the universe
00:06:11.800 to the precise moment you clicked this podcast episode,
00:06:15.620 what does it mean to say that you could have done otherwise?
00:06:19.240 If by rewinding the universe we mean
00:06:21.900 resetting the physical conditions
00:06:24.060 in precisely the state and position they were in a few minutes ago,
00:06:27.760 keeping in mind that this would also reset your physical system,
00:06:31.940 including your brain,
00:06:32.880 to that precise moment,
00:06:34.880 could you have done otherwise?
00:06:37.960 That precise state of the universe
00:06:39.980 resulted in you choosing this episode.
00:06:42.820 Could it have resulted in anything other than that?
00:06:47.540 It seems like the answer to that question has to be no.
00:06:51.500 Each physical state of the universe
00:06:53.200 gives rise to the next,
00:06:54.820 and the next,
00:06:55.740 and so on,
00:06:56.740 in what is called a causal chain.
00:06:59.420 There is no way to break that causal chain.
00:07:01.940 You can start at any moment on the chain
00:07:04.980 and move backwards to the prior link
00:07:06.960 forever.
00:07:09.100 These links extend back infinitely into the past
00:07:11.800 towards the Big Bang
00:07:12.820 and the start of the universe,
00:07:14.540 where we eventually shrug at the mystery of
00:07:16.840 why there is something rather than nothing
00:07:19.060 in the first place.
00:07:20.760 And of course,
00:07:21.600 the causal chain extends into our future,
00:07:24.000 even though those particular links
00:07:25.980 are much harder to see.
00:07:27.020 This description of things
00:07:29.660 is generally called determinism.
00:07:32.240 And in this view,
00:07:33.160 there is clearly no place
00:07:34.480 to insert libertarian free will,
00:07:36.700 no place to map your feeling
00:07:38.720 that you could have done otherwise
00:07:40.060 onto reality.
00:07:41.740 But it gets even worse
00:07:43.360 for the stability
00:07:44.060 of our initial feeling of freedom.
00:07:45.720 If you add some randomness
00:07:49.860 to our causal chain,
00:07:51.420 let's say,
00:07:52.180 through the findings of quantum mechanics,
00:07:54.240 and the next chain
00:07:55.680 is impossible to calculate precisely,
00:07:58.780 free will still runs into problems.
00:08:01.780 If we rewind the universe again,
00:08:04.440 but now add some random dice rolling
00:08:06.360 to determine the precise state of the universe
00:08:08.480 in the next moment,
00:08:10.040 then many things could happen,
00:08:12.100 and the next link in the chain
00:08:13.280 might be fundamentally mysterious
00:08:14.740 on some level.
00:08:16.480 But still,
00:08:17.680 did you choose it?
00:08:19.780 You didn't even roll the dice.
00:08:22.400 And the random number
00:08:23.480 that comes up
00:08:24.200 that determines the next state
00:08:25.440 of the universe
00:08:26.000 doesn't rescue free will for us anyway.
00:08:29.720 Indeterminism may make the future
00:08:31.500 inherently unknowable,
00:08:33.280 but it still doesn't get us
00:08:34.560 to a coherent description
00:08:35.740 of libertarian free will.
00:08:38.080 Could anything?
00:08:40.200 Sam doesn't think so.
00:08:42.140 And as much as humans
00:08:43.140 have longed to find
00:08:44.180 this ultimate kind of freedom,
00:08:46.300 it appears to be logically impossible
00:08:48.080 and demands breaking the laws of physics,
00:08:51.120 something that is otherwise known as
00:08:52.540 performing magic.
00:08:54.640 This presents some unavoidable problems
00:08:56.960 for many religious philosophies
00:08:58.580 that build upon the foundational truth claim
00:09:00.900 of libertarian free will
00:09:02.260 and construct systems
00:09:04.200 of ultimate punishment
00:09:05.300 and reward for our choices
00:09:06.640 with different variations
00:09:07.860 of heaven and hell.
00:09:09.920 Sam has pointed out
00:09:10.960 that this crisis
00:09:11.820 for religious philosophy
00:09:13.020 is much more devastating
00:09:14.760 than any uneasiness
00:09:16.360 about the undignified truths
00:09:18.020 of our animal evolution
00:09:19.120 that offend the religious doctrines
00:09:20.880 of creationism.
00:09:22.740 Here's an example
00:09:23.780 that Sam has written about
00:09:24.960 to really drive that point home.
00:09:26.580 Let's say that we exchange
00:09:32.060 all of your atoms and quarks
00:09:33.760 one by one
00:09:34.780 with those of Jeffrey Dahmer.
00:09:37.280 Dahmer did some pretty awful things,
00:09:40.060 namely murdering people
00:09:41.260 and eating their bodies.
00:09:43.320 So after the exchange
00:09:44.920 of all your atoms for his,
00:09:47.040 you would be Jeffrey Dahmer
00:09:48.540 and you would do exactly what he did.
00:09:51.080 But if you're protesting
00:09:53.040 and saying that's not so
00:09:54.700 because you would make
00:09:56.460 very different choices
00:09:57.400 than he did,
00:09:58.760 if you're insisting
00:09:59.880 that you aren't a cannibal
00:10:01.180 or a murderer,
00:10:02.560 then you're insisting
00:10:03.600 on the existence
00:10:04.260 of a metaphysical soul,
00:10:06.560 something that is not beholden
00:10:07.980 to the laws of physics
00:10:08.980 but can somehow move them around.
00:10:12.600 This soul would have remained
00:10:14.020 intact and unchanged
00:10:15.380 even when we did
00:10:16.320 the atom swapping.
00:10:18.000 Your soul would be
00:10:19.140 in Dahmer's body
00:10:20.200 but it would still be you.
00:10:22.860 We'll get to the problems
00:10:23.980 with the metaphysical substance
00:10:25.440 like soul
00:10:26.060 a bit later in this compilation.
00:10:28.600 But let's assume for a moment
00:10:30.040 that the soul exists.
00:10:32.400 Even this doesn't get us
00:10:33.620 the kind of libertarian
00:10:34.760 free will we wanted
00:10:35.800 because you didn't choose
00:10:38.300 your soul either
00:10:39.100 and apparently
00:10:40.360 neither did Jeffrey Dahmer
00:10:41.780 or anyone for that matter.
00:10:45.340 A simple way to put it
00:10:46.860 is that every choice
00:10:48.040 is determined by either nature
00:10:49.660 nurture,
00:10:51.340 randomness,
00:10:52.480 soul,
00:10:53.440 or some combination
00:10:54.400 of the four.
00:10:55.520 None of which you chose
00:10:56.920 at any point
00:10:57.940 in an infinite causal chain.
00:11:01.120 Dahmer was apparently
00:11:02.000 unlucky to be given
00:11:03.140 the soul,
00:11:04.220 nature,
00:11:04.960 nurture,
00:11:05.400 and randomness
00:11:06.040 that he got.
00:11:07.220 And presumably
00:11:07.940 you've been a bit luckier
00:11:09.280 than him
00:11:09.660 in at least one of those
00:11:10.740 four ways.
00:11:12.240 Luck swallows everything
00:11:13.500 at this level of analysis.
00:11:14.700 So what does this imply
00:11:19.340 for a God
00:11:20.000 who holds you
00:11:20.680 cosmically accountable
00:11:21.760 for your actions?
00:11:23.680 For some thinkers,
00:11:24.700 it erases him entirely
00:11:25.860 or it casts him
00:11:27.720 as having a very bad
00:11:28.700 sense of humor
00:11:29.300 at the very least.
00:11:31.300 Many thinkers
00:11:32.140 have stumbled across
00:11:33.020 this potentially fatal flaw
00:11:34.580 in the logic
00:11:35.280 of religious philosophy
00:11:36.240 and have gone to great lengths
00:11:38.080 to try to reconcile
00:11:39.020 the issue.
00:11:40.600 A bit later
00:11:41.480 in the compilation,
00:11:42.160 we'll read from a classic case
00:11:44.060 with a famous letter exchange
00:11:45.440 from the 1600s
00:11:46.680 between the celebrated philosopher
00:11:48.640 René Descartes
00:11:49.640 and the far too unknown critic
00:11:51.660 Elizabeth,
00:11:52.620 Princess of Bohemia.
00:11:55.160 Just a note here.
00:11:57.080 Sam has pointed out
00:11:58.020 that his argumentation
00:11:59.060 on free will
00:11:59.820 has resulted in some readers
00:12:01.300 and listeners
00:12:01.900 feeling that the rug
00:12:03.160 has been pulled out
00:12:03.860 from under them.
00:12:05.220 He insists that
00:12:05.960 taking on the insight
00:12:07.000 that libertarian free will
00:12:08.420 is an incoherent concept
00:12:09.900 actually has tremendously
00:12:11.880 important
00:12:12.540 and beneficial impacts
00:12:14.120 if ingested fully.
00:12:16.080 So, if you're feeling
00:12:17.220 a bit off-kilter psychologically,
00:12:19.440 stick with this compilation
00:12:20.320 as we push towards
00:12:21.480 a nuanced
00:12:22.180 and deep understanding.
00:12:23.860 You might find
00:12:24.820 that losing this cosmic notion
00:12:26.320 of libertarian free will
00:12:27.600 actually activates
00:12:29.180 a new sense of compassion
00:12:30.420 and forgiveness.
00:12:32.020 You're also going to hear
00:12:32.980 from some thinkers
00:12:33.720 who argue
00:12:34.300 that the truth of determinism
00:12:35.840 does not negate
00:12:36.940 the reality of free will.
00:12:38.840 Though they will argue
00:12:39.840 that perhaps
00:12:40.460 we're forced to reassess
00:12:41.840 what we may have thought
00:12:43.320 free will was
00:12:44.060 in the first place.
00:12:45.620 These thinkers
00:12:46.400 are called compatibilists
00:12:47.940 and Sam is entirely
00:12:49.460 unconvinced by them.
00:12:51.080 But we'll try to offer
00:12:52.020 a good defense
00:12:52.820 in this compilation
00:12:53.560 and we'll revisit
00:12:55.380 the idea
00:12:55.920 that there could be
00:12:56.660 different levels
00:12:57.400 of examination
00:12:58.000 of the universe
00:12:58.880 where we might be able
00:13:00.320 to locate and speak
00:13:01.560 about a will
00:13:02.140 worth calling free.
00:13:04.660 We'll also hear
00:13:05.620 from some thinkers
00:13:06.380 who struggle
00:13:06.980 with the balancing act
00:13:08.120 of having to act
00:13:09.280 as if we have free will
00:13:10.580 for pragmatic reasons
00:13:12.220 of maintaining society
00:13:13.360 and possibly
00:13:14.420 for psychological stability.
00:13:17.540 Sam considers
00:13:18.200 all of those moves
00:13:19.260 to be guilty
00:13:19.800 of redefining the term
00:13:21.100 into something
00:13:21.640 entirely different
00:13:22.640 and evading
00:13:23.680 the inescapable
00:13:24.660 obvious truth.
00:13:26.420 And he might be right
00:13:27.260 but we'll do our best
00:13:28.920 to air the compatibilist
00:13:30.080 challenges fairly
00:13:31.040 in this enduring
00:13:31.900 philosophical debate
00:13:32.960 which shows no signs
00:13:34.300 of quieting down.
00:13:35.120 One of the most
00:13:39.200 glaring implications
00:13:40.140 of this topic
00:13:40.960 is how we ought
00:13:41.800 to think about
00:13:42.400 crime and punishment.
00:13:44.480 This brings us
00:13:45.380 to our first clip
00:13:46.300 which is with
00:13:47.000 Robert Sapolsky
00:13:47.880 who's a professor
00:13:48.940 and researcher
00:13:49.720 of neurobiology
00:13:50.700 at Stanford University.
00:13:53.320 In this segment
00:13:54.320 he and Sam
00:13:55.160 are wrapping up
00:13:55.880 a tour of the brain
00:13:56.960 as they shift
00:13:57.900 the discussion
00:13:58.420 to the idea
00:13:59.140 of moral responsibility
00:14:00.340 and free will.
00:14:02.060 We're going to ease
00:14:02.760 our way into this
00:14:03.580 minefield of a conversation
00:14:04.760 with Sam's guest
00:14:06.080 doing most of the
00:14:06.780 talking here
00:14:07.440 as he lays out
00:14:08.620 an automobile analogy
00:14:09.780 which reminds us
00:14:10.760 of the mechanistic nature
00:14:11.880 of our biology
00:14:12.680 and its emergent behaviors.
00:14:15.120 This is from episode 91
00:14:16.960 an episode titled
00:14:18.520 The Biology of Good and Evil.
00:14:23.720 Let's just step back
00:14:25.680 and remind people
00:14:26.580 of the problem here.
00:14:28.260 Maybe you should make
00:14:29.880 the case briefly
00:14:31.000 about why
00:14:31.920 this notion of free will
00:14:33.900 is an incoherent idea
00:14:36.280 scientifically
00:14:37.260 and you might pull
00:14:38.780 from your book
00:14:39.360 this great description
00:14:40.800 you have
00:14:41.400 of what you call
00:14:43.060 car free will.
00:14:44.220 Okay.
00:14:45.220 And much of it
00:14:47.220 winds up being
00:14:48.040 most relevant
00:14:48.780 implicit in that metaphor
00:14:51.060 for criminal justice system
00:14:53.860 how we judge people harshly.
00:14:56.080 One angle I take
00:14:58.280 in trying to convince people
00:14:59.440 there's no free will
00:15:00.540 is just to look
00:15:02.120 at the sheer number
00:15:03.560 of things
00:15:05.320 influencing our behavior.
00:15:07.540 So you do something
00:15:09.140 aggressive
00:15:09.840 you do something aggressive
00:15:11.240 and you're asked
00:15:12.800 why you did it
00:15:13.540 and you come up
00:15:14.120 with a very rational
00:15:14.920 explanation that's
00:15:16.000 dripping with a sense
00:15:17.320 of agency
00:15:18.000 and here's just
00:15:19.480 some of the things
00:15:20.580 that influenced
00:15:21.720 how likely you were
00:15:22.640 to do that behavior.
00:15:23.860 If you were sitting
00:15:25.040 in a room
00:15:25.700 with smelly garbage
00:15:27.180 that made you
00:15:28.980 more likely to do that.
00:15:30.740 If you are male
00:15:32.200 or female
00:15:32.800 and your testosterone
00:15:34.180 levels have been
00:15:34.940 elevated for the last day
00:15:36.360 that's more likely
00:15:37.700 to have happened.
00:15:38.860 If you've been
00:15:39.480 traumatized five months
00:15:41.040 ago and neurons
00:15:42.240 in your amygdala
00:15:43.200 grew new connections
00:15:44.760 that's more likely
00:15:46.280 to happen.
00:15:47.500 If as a third
00:15:48.440 trimester fetus
00:15:49.840 you were exposed
00:15:50.940 to elevated levels
00:15:52.120 of stress hormones
00:15:53.100 from your mom's
00:15:54.020 circulation
00:15:54.600 that as well.
00:15:56.040 If your ancestors
00:15:57.940 were nomadic
00:15:59.200 pastoralists
00:16:00.240 wandering grasslands
00:16:01.760 or deserts
00:16:02.540 with their herds
00:16:03.300 and came up
00:16:04.320 with a culture
00:16:04.940 of honor
00:16:05.460 and you were
00:16:06.000 raised in that
00:16:06.680 you were more
00:16:07.640 likely to have
00:16:08.300 done that as well.
00:16:09.900 Wait a second
00:16:10.740 ecosystems 500
00:16:12.540 years ago
00:16:13.520 have an influence
00:16:14.660 on yeah
00:16:15.780 turns out people's
00:16:17.200 cultures are
00:16:17.960 greatly shaped
00:16:18.820 by that
00:16:19.200 and it greatly
00:16:19.700 shapes how their
00:16:20.420 brains develop.
00:16:21.240 Okay so if there's
00:16:22.220 that realm of argument
00:16:23.500 whoa
00:16:24.460 there's a whole
00:16:25.740 lot more stuff
00:16:26.560 going on
00:16:27.220 under the hood
00:16:28.060 a whole lot more
00:16:28.840 subterranean influences
00:16:30.180 than one would think.
00:16:31.720 A second style
00:16:32.600 of argument
00:16:33.140 is when you
00:16:34.340 manipulate
00:16:34.900 one of those
00:16:36.160 variables
00:16:36.800 like take
00:16:38.140 somebody
00:16:38.660 and stick them
00:16:39.680 in a room
00:16:40.180 that smells
00:16:41.060 of rotten
00:16:41.620 garbage
00:16:42.080 and your average
00:16:43.180 person becomes
00:16:44.000 more socially
00:16:44.760 conservative
00:16:45.340 on a questionnaire
00:16:46.200 and afterward
00:16:47.600 you would say
00:16:48.560 that's interesting
00:16:49.240 last month
00:16:49.960 when you filled
00:16:50.540 this out
00:16:51.020 in a room
00:16:51.560 that smelled
00:16:52.080 like petunias
00:16:52.900 you had this
00:16:53.960 or that attitude
00:16:54.700 and now you've
00:16:55.320 put it differently
00:16:55.880 and they'll say
00:16:56.320 well this event
00:16:57.960 that happened
00:16:58.640 in like middle
00:16:59.780 Peoria last month
00:17:02.480 has utterly
00:17:03.220 changed my mind.
00:17:04.080 No it was a sensory
00:17:06.180 influence that
00:17:07.060 sensitized your
00:17:08.040 insular neurons
00:17:08.920 so you can
00:17:10.740 manipulate people
00:17:11.920 on a biologically
00:17:13.680 unappreciated level
00:17:16.220 and change behavior
00:17:17.780 but probably
00:17:19.740 for me
00:17:20.300 sort of
00:17:20.820 the most
00:17:21.160 emotionally
00:17:21.860 sort of
00:17:23.640 salient way
00:17:24.360 of getting
00:17:24.720 at the free
00:17:25.240 will issue
00:17:25.820 is to just
00:17:27.040 look historically
00:17:28.200 and look
00:17:29.380 at the stuff
00:17:30.120 that we
00:17:30.580 understand now
00:17:31.740 if we're
00:17:32.260 reasonably
00:17:32.820 educated
00:17:34.220 reflective
00:17:35.100 thoughtful
00:17:36.460 people
00:17:37.400 whatever
00:17:37.820 we know
00:17:38.880 that
00:17:39.320 epileptic
00:17:40.200 seizures
00:17:40.680 are neurological
00:17:42.200 disorders
00:17:42.920 they're not
00:17:43.660 because somebody
00:17:44.500 has slept
00:17:45.100 with Satan
00:17:45.740 we know
00:17:46.900 that certain
00:17:47.400 types of
00:17:47.920 learning
00:17:48.260 disabilities
00:17:49.020 are not
00:17:50.080 children being
00:17:50.720 lazy and
00:17:51.320 unmotivated
00:17:52.080 it turns out
00:17:52.700 there's cortical
00:17:53.400 malformations
00:17:54.380 we know
00:17:55.320 that certain
00:17:55.880 times
00:17:56.360 when somebody
00:17:57.300 is completely
00:17:58.820 inappropriate
00:17:59.540 in their
00:18:00.080 behavior
00:18:00.580 it's because
00:18:01.640 they've got
00:18:02.040 a neurochemical
00:18:02.800 disorder
00:18:03.360 called
00:18:03.680 schizophrenia
00:18:04.220 most of us
00:18:05.780 have gotten
00:18:06.840 to the point
00:18:07.520 where free
00:18:08.940 will has been
00:18:09.480 subtracted out
00:18:10.260 of that equation
00:18:11.040 if you have
00:18:11.980 somebody with
00:18:12.720 treatment resistant
00:18:13.720 epilepsy
00:18:14.320 and they have
00:18:16.040 occasional seizures
00:18:17.000 they can't
00:18:18.620 drive a car
00:18:19.300 but you
00:18:20.600 don't feel
00:18:21.340 like justice
00:18:22.380 has been
00:18:22.940 served
00:18:23.540 and they're
00:18:24.360 getting their
00:18:24.960 due punishment
00:18:25.720 when their
00:18:26.880 driver's license
00:18:27.860 is inactivated
00:18:28.880 for a while
00:18:29.440 you say
00:18:30.300 it's not
00:18:30.760 them
00:18:31.240 it's their
00:18:31.980 disease
00:18:32.620 there's a
00:18:33.500 biological
00:18:34.160 explanation
00:18:35.080 that sidesteps
00:18:36.380 notions of
00:18:37.020 agency or
00:18:37.660 free will
00:18:38.080 and at that
00:18:39.220 point
00:18:39.620 all you have
00:18:40.600 to do
00:18:41.080 is look
00:18:41.700 at how
00:18:42.480 much of
00:18:42.920 this stuff
00:18:43.440 we've
00:18:44.080 learned
00:18:44.420 in the
00:18:44.820 last
00:18:45.060 century
00:18:45.500 in the
00:18:45.860 last
00:18:46.140 50
00:18:46.540 years
00:18:46.860 in the
00:18:47.100 last
00:18:47.300 10
00:18:47.540 years
00:18:47.760 in the
00:18:47.960 last
00:18:48.140 five
00:18:48.480 years
00:18:48.680 we never
00:18:49.460 heard of
00:18:50.480 von
00:18:51.040 economo
00:18:51.680 neurons
00:18:52.140 more than
00:18:52.560 20 years
00:18:53.160 ago
00:18:53.400 and either
00:18:54.920 you've got
00:18:56.280 to conclude
00:18:56.920 that's it
00:18:57.740 tonight at
00:18:58.300 midnight
00:18:58.620 we're never
00:18:59.200 going to get
00:18:59.580 a new
00:18:59.860 scientific
00:19:00.280 fact again
00:19:01.160 or you're
00:19:02.220 going to
00:19:02.440 conclude
00:19:02.860 that the
00:19:03.220 march of
00:19:03.600 science is
00:19:04.120 going to
00:19:04.460 continue
00:19:04.940 exactly as
00:19:05.740 is and
00:19:06.500 the number
00:19:07.000 of ways
00:19:07.460 in which
00:19:07.860 we say
00:19:08.360 oh
00:19:08.900 it's not
00:19:09.800 him
00:19:10.300 it's
00:19:11.200 his
00:19:11.560 brain
00:19:12.220 it's
00:19:12.660 this
00:19:12.880 weird
00:19:13.280 quirk
00:19:13.800 of it
00:19:14.260 it's
00:19:15.220 just
00:19:15.400 going to
00:19:15.640 grow
00:19:15.820 more
00:19:16.140 and more
00:19:16.500 until
00:19:17.080 we're not
00:19:17.920 talking about
00:19:18.540 them and
00:19:19.140 their diseases
00:19:19.780 or them
00:19:20.300 and their
00:19:20.560 weird quirks
00:19:21.320 but we're
00:19:21.940 talking about
00:19:22.920 every one
00:19:23.680 of our
00:19:23.980 individualities
00:19:25.020 and their
00:19:25.780 biological
00:19:26.400 ones
00:19:26.880 and when
00:19:28.080 it's in
00:19:28.420 the realm
00:19:29.000 of
00:19:29.460 inappropriate
00:19:30.220 human
00:19:30.800 behavior
00:19:31.260 criminal
00:19:31.740 activity
00:19:32.340 somebody
00:19:33.140 does
00:19:33.400 something
00:19:33.720 violent
00:19:34.320 you know
00:19:35.400 that's a
00:19:36.040 biological
00:19:36.620 phenomenon
00:19:37.360 that's not
00:19:38.540 to say
00:19:39.180 you don't
00:19:39.820 do anything
00:19:40.480 where you
00:19:40.940 forgive
00:19:41.360 everything
00:19:41.900 forgive
00:19:42.220 is an
00:19:42.560 irrelevant
00:19:42.880 word
00:19:43.300 if a
00:19:43.940 car's
00:19:44.460 brakes
00:19:44.960 are
00:19:45.240 faulty
00:19:45.680 you don't
00:19:46.460 let it
00:19:46.760 out on
00:19:47.040 the street
00:19:47.400 it's going
00:19:47.700 to kill
00:19:47.980 somebody
00:19:48.420 you fix
00:19:49.260 them if
00:19:49.560 you can
00:19:50.080 and if
00:19:50.780 you can't
00:19:51.220 fix them
00:19:51.580 you put
00:19:52.140 the car
00:19:52.980 in a
00:19:53.260 garage
00:19:53.620 for the
00:19:54.000 rest of
00:19:54.320 time
00:19:54.660 but no
00:19:55.380 one would
00:19:55.780 sit there
00:19:56.180 and say
00:19:56.540 the car
00:19:56.980 has a
00:19:57.420 rotten
00:19:57.680 soul
00:19:58.180 or it's
00:19:58.840 deserving
00:19:59.280 the punishment
00:19:59.940 by putting
00:20:00.500 in seclusion
00:20:01.200 in the
00:20:01.540 garage
00:20:01.980 there
00:20:02.340 it's a
00:20:03.060 mechanical
00:20:03.400 problem
00:20:03.900 and if
00:20:04.980 somebody
00:20:05.320 says wow
00:20:06.100 that's so
00:20:06.820 dehumanizing
00:20:07.940 to view
00:20:09.820 machines
00:20:10.460 that's a
00:20:11.120 hell of a
00:20:11.520 lot better
00:20:11.960 than sermonizing
00:20:13.060 us into
00:20:13.500 having bad
00:20:14.160 souls
00:20:14.720 Sapolsky's
00:20:18.940 analogy drives
00:20:19.900 us towards
00:20:20.400 a mindset
00:20:20.920 of how to
00:20:21.560 think about
00:20:21.980 punishment
00:20:22.500 and retribution
00:20:23.440 in a
00:20:24.280 universe
00:20:24.600 without
00:20:25.040 free will
00:20:25.560 the
00:20:26.900 implications
00:20:27.400 are similar
00:20:28.000 to a
00:20:28.460 stance
00:20:28.740 that is
00:20:29.020 sometimes
00:20:29.380 called
00:20:29.800 the
00:20:30.300 quarantine
00:20:30.760 model
00:20:31.240 of
00:20:31.460 justice
00:20:31.940 the
00:20:32.960 analogy
00:20:33.380 presents
00:20:33.820 a
00:20:34.000 quarantine
00:20:34.400 not as
00:20:35.320 a
00:20:35.480 punishment
00:20:35.920 but a
00:20:36.920 necessary
00:20:37.340 measure
00:20:37.800 to ensure
00:20:38.360 a level
00:20:38.800 of
00:20:39.000 societal
00:20:39.460 safety
00:20:39.960 while we
00:20:40.780 work on
00:20:41.080 a cure
00:20:41.420 this
00:20:42.780 quarantine
00:20:43.160 analogy
00:20:43.620 is something
00:20:44.180 far too
00:20:44.820 familiar to
00:20:45.400 all of us
00:20:45.960 since the
00:20:46.280 year 2020
00:20:46.840 but it's a
00:20:48.060 useful metaphor
00:20:48.780 to keep in
00:20:49.400 mind
00:20:49.760 because it
00:20:50.820 casts every
00:20:51.600 dangerous or
00:20:52.440 otherwise
00:20:52.880 destructive
00:20:53.380 behavior as
00:20:54.600 a sort of
00:20:55.020 infection or
00:20:55.840 disease
00:20:56.340 which of
00:20:57.500 course ought
00:20:58.360 to motivate
00:20:58.840 a sympathetic
00:20:59.360 response that
00:21:00.320 recognizes the
00:21:01.280 bad luck of
00:21:02.080 being a
00:21:02.420 victim of
00:21:02.820 the universe
00:21:03.380 and urge
00:21:04.820 us to find
00:21:05.240 the remedy for
00:21:05.880 those destructive
00:21:06.480 behaviors
00:21:07.080 if we keep
00:21:09.040 in mind
00:21:09.500 Sam's
00:21:09.940 argument that
00:21:10.620 contra-causal
00:21:11.420 free will
00:21:12.100 is incoherent
00:21:13.120 and couldn't
00:21:13.600 possibly exist
00:21:14.540 then we really
00:21:15.900 do have to
00:21:16.680 drain a deep
00:21:17.520 existential and
00:21:18.600 cosmic moral
00:21:19.540 responsibility
00:21:20.160 from a
00:21:21.240 masked intruder
00:21:21.920 who breaks
00:21:22.420 down the
00:21:22.780 door and
00:21:23.160 threatens to
00:21:23.600 kill our
00:21:23.880 family
00:21:24.280 but this
00:21:25.620 act of
00:21:26.060 noticing that
00:21:26.820 neither he
00:21:27.500 nor anyone
00:21:28.200 else is the
00:21:29.400 true author of
00:21:30.260 his own
00:21:30.560 actions doesn't
00:21:31.760 make the
00:21:32.180 problem and
00:21:32.820 emergency of
00:21:33.600 this person in
00:21:34.240 our presence
00:21:34.800 go away
00:21:35.780 we're definitely
00:21:37.280 still in danger
00:21:38.340 so let's
00:21:39.820 pause this
00:21:40.380 moment and
00:21:41.040 consider three
00:21:41.760 different ways
00:21:42.440 of dealing
00:21:42.820 with it
00:21:43.320 let's say this
00:21:47.560 masked man has
00:21:48.540 just busted the
00:21:49.320 hinges off your
00:21:49.980 front door
00:21:50.540 barged into your
00:21:51.820 room and pointed
00:21:52.860 a gun in your
00:21:53.560 direction
00:21:53.940 you look at the
00:21:55.660 table in front of
00:21:56.420 you and see three
00:21:57.400 different pieces of
00:21:58.260 technology that you
00:21:59.160 could use to deal
00:21:59.980 with this problem
00:22:00.640 let's allow our
00:22:02.300 minds to invent
00:22:03.000 some new sci-fi
00:22:03.980 gadgets here
00:22:04.700 on the left
00:22:07.420 is a normal gun
00:22:08.460 with lethal
00:22:09.140 bullets
00:22:09.580 let's also say
00:22:11.180 that it has
00:22:11.600 perfect aim
00:22:12.340 and will always
00:22:13.460 hit its target
00:22:14.160 right between
00:22:14.760 the eyes
00:22:15.300 if you pick
00:22:16.620 this one up
00:22:17.200 and use it
00:22:17.820 you're sure
00:22:18.620 to kill
00:22:19.040 the intruder
00:22:19.620 to the right
00:22:22.860 of the gun
00:22:23.320 is our next
00:22:23.900 option
00:22:24.280 it's a button
00:22:25.540 that if pressed
00:22:26.560 will drop an
00:22:27.520 inescapable
00:22:28.240 and impenetrable
00:22:29.140 cage down
00:22:29.820 over the intruder
00:22:30.580 rendering him
00:22:31.940 stuck and harmless
00:22:32.860 to anyone
00:22:33.340 outside of the
00:22:33.980 enclosure
00:22:34.380 in essence
00:22:35.720 it will create
00:22:36.460 a perfect
00:22:37.120 quarantine zone
00:22:38.140 with a population
00:22:39.220 of one
00:22:39.900 if you press
00:22:41.540 this button
00:22:42.060 you will be safe
00:22:43.280 the threat
00:22:44.180 will be neutralized
00:22:45.140 the intruder
00:22:46.040 will be caged
00:22:46.840 and presumably
00:22:48.100 could be transported
00:22:49.140 away to be dealt
00:22:49.960 with elsewhere
00:22:50.540 and to the right
00:22:52.060 of that button
00:22:52.740 is our last option
00:22:53.940 this is a very
00:22:55.640 special kind
00:22:56.440 of laser beam
00:22:57.120 device
00:22:57.560 that rearranges
00:22:58.640 the brain
00:22:59.140 of its target
00:22:59.740 and takes out
00:23:00.780 any murderous
00:23:01.440 ideas in it
00:23:02.200 and it does
00:23:03.460 even more
00:23:03.880 than that
00:23:04.300 it turns
00:23:05.240 its target
00:23:05.800 into a genuinely
00:23:06.640 happy person
00:23:07.560 on a path
00:23:08.500 to objective
00:23:09.100 fulfillment
00:23:09.620 and contentment
00:23:10.460 it can instantly
00:23:12.620 transform the most
00:23:13.720 frustrated
00:23:14.280 angry
00:23:15.260 distressed
00:23:16.100 and homicidal
00:23:16.820 person
00:23:17.240 into a paragon
00:23:18.600 of moral behavior
00:23:19.740 with the temperament
00:23:21.020 of a contented yogi
00:23:22.220 let's call this
00:23:23.960 fancy laser beam
00:23:24.840 device
00:23:25.300 a cure gun
00:23:26.460 keeping in mind
00:23:29.100 that this intruder
00:23:29.860 is not ultimately
00:23:30.860 responsible for his actions
00:23:32.260 how could we ever
00:23:33.760 morally justify
00:23:34.700 using the gun
00:23:35.540 on the left
00:23:36.060 that would kill him
00:23:36.820 and is there
00:23:38.880 any moral argument
00:23:39.940 against using
00:23:40.660 the device
00:23:41.080 on the right
00:23:41.660 the cure gun
00:23:42.600 if you're raising
00:23:44.320 some mental objections
00:23:45.380 that using the kill gun
00:23:46.680 would be justified
00:23:47.420 because it would act
00:23:48.820 as a sort of
00:23:49.380 social deterrence
00:23:50.360 and prompt
00:23:51.220 many other
00:23:51.780 would-be intruders
00:23:52.800 to rethink
00:23:53.380 their life choices
00:23:54.340 that line of reasoning
00:23:56.080 can be debated
00:23:56.780 and we will get to
00:23:58.420 some of Sam's
00:23:59.060 conversations
00:23:59.640 which deal
00:24:00.280 with that response
00:24:01.120 but it becomes
00:24:02.760 very difficult
00:24:03.480 to see how
00:24:04.080 choosing the kill gun
00:24:05.120 and thereby
00:24:06.080 foregoing the opportunity
00:24:07.240 to use the quarantine cage
00:24:08.840 or the cure gun
00:24:09.680 because the intruder
00:24:11.340 deserves to be killed
00:24:12.840 would be defensible
00:24:14.140 now we certainly
00:24:18.380 don't have a cure gun
00:24:19.500 at this point
00:24:20.140 and the very notion
00:24:21.460 of the thing
00:24:22.000 raises important discussions
00:24:23.360 about what a cure gun
00:24:24.420 would actually do
00:24:25.340 and if there are
00:24:26.580 such things
00:24:27.140 as dangerous
00:24:27.780 moral states
00:24:28.580 that are well
00:24:29.060 described as pathogens
00:24:30.060 but that is a debate
00:24:31.780 for another compilation
00:24:32.780 about ethics
00:24:33.680 and Sam's argument
00:24:34.880 in favor of an
00:24:35.720 objective notion
00:24:36.600 of morality
00:24:37.200 the quarantine button
00:24:39.200 has closer analogies
00:24:40.540 to our current technologies
00:24:41.800 that can temporarily
00:24:42.840 paralyze
00:24:43.660 which might be easier
00:24:45.080 to imagine
00:24:45.660 like tasers
00:24:46.440 or lassos
00:24:47.240 and of course
00:24:48.800 if the intruder
00:24:49.640 is then picked up
00:24:50.640 and taken to an institution
00:24:51.820 that is focused
00:24:52.580 on offering
00:24:53.180 all kinds of therapy
00:24:54.240 psychological rehabilitation
00:24:55.940 or even medicinal intervention
00:24:57.960 all of those efforts
00:24:59.820 can be thought of
00:25:00.620 as amounting
00:25:01.300 to an elaborate cure gun
00:25:02.760 the erasure
00:25:04.540 of free will
00:25:05.400 results in a view
00:25:06.300 of the intruder
00:25:07.000 and his actions
00:25:08.140 as a dangerous
00:25:09.000 and malfunctioning
00:25:09.940 physical system
00:25:10.780 which could be altered
00:25:12.040 or at least isolated
00:25:13.280 if we had no fix
00:25:14.400 if we could disarm
00:25:16.360 a hurricane
00:25:16.980 we would
00:25:18.000 if we could quarantine
00:25:19.240 a hurricane
00:25:19.900 we would
00:25:20.740 but it feels ridiculous
00:25:22.600 to punish a hurricane
00:25:23.940 for the damage it caused
00:25:25.240 and if people
00:25:26.720 are ultimately
00:25:27.500 just particularly
00:25:28.400 complex storms
00:25:29.440 of physics
00:25:30.020 then this same attitude
00:25:31.760 towards crime
00:25:32.520 and punishment
00:25:33.060 of humans
00:25:33.780 starts to feel
00:25:34.820 illuminating
00:25:35.520 and informative
00:25:36.120 okay so
00:25:39.600 with that in mind
00:25:40.540 we're going to jump
00:25:41.480 right into Sam's
00:25:42.280 conversation
00:25:42.800 with a philosopher
00:25:43.640 Dan Dennett
00:25:44.540 who has long
00:25:45.660 been the thorn
00:25:46.280 in Sam's side
00:25:47.100 on the topic
00:25:47.640 of free will
00:25:48.260 you should know
00:25:50.180 that Sam and Dennett
00:25:51.180 have a close
00:25:51.840 personal and
00:25:52.600 professional relationship
00:25:53.620 they were two
00:25:55.180 of the four horsemen
00:25:56.700 of new atheism
00:25:57.600 along with Richard Dawkins
00:25:59.240 and Christopher Hitchens
00:26:00.260 all four men
00:26:02.160 were staunch critics
00:26:03.060 of religion
00:26:03.620 and collaborated
00:26:04.680 in many popular
00:26:05.600 discussions on that
00:26:06.420 topic after 9-11
00:26:07.580 Sam and Dennett's
00:26:09.720 alliance on that issue
00:26:11.000 may be ultimately
00:26:11.880 rooted in this
00:26:12.820 very topic
00:26:13.480 because of the
00:26:14.500 religious reliance
00:26:15.540 on the incoherent
00:26:16.500 notion of libertarian
00:26:17.600 free will
00:26:18.120 in this exchange
00:26:20.060 you'll hear both
00:26:21.180 men agree
00:26:21.920 that that idea
00:26:23.140 is irrational
00:26:23.920 and jumbled
00:26:24.500 to the point
00:26:25.020 where it is
00:26:25.460 barely worth
00:26:25.980 talking about
00:26:26.620 but you'll also
00:26:28.620 hear very stark
00:26:29.560 disagreements
00:26:30.240 as Dennett
00:26:31.140 attempts to find
00:26:31.980 what he calls
00:26:32.700 the free will
00:26:33.920 worth wanting
00:26:34.740 Dennett goes
00:26:36.600 on a search
00:26:37.280 for what could
00:26:38.020 provide a foundation
00:26:39.160 to build a real
00:26:40.260 workable form
00:26:41.620 of moral
00:26:42.160 responsibility
00:26:42.780 and he finds
00:26:44.440 that at an
00:26:45.180 admittedly arbitrary
00:26:46.220 social level
00:26:47.140 a level
00:26:48.340 that he has
00:26:48.920 analogized
00:26:49.480 elsewhere
00:26:49.880 as a person
00:26:50.940 having the kind
00:26:51.700 of physical
00:26:52.240 and biological
00:26:53.140 system
00:26:53.720 that grants
00:26:54.640 him entrance
00:26:55.240 into the
00:26:55.760 moral agents
00:26:56.580 club
00:26:56.960 also note
00:26:59.180 that Sam
00:26:59.680 recorded this
00:27:00.360 conversation
00:27:00.920 at a bar
00:27:01.540 with one
00:27:02.020 microphone
00:27:02.460 after a conference
00:27:03.560 in the early
00:27:04.440 days of the
00:27:05.000 Making Sense
00:27:05.500 podcast
00:27:05.880 podcast
00:27:06.120 this is Dan
00:27:08.060 Dennett
00:27:08.360 from episode
00:27:09.120 39
00:27:09.820 free will
00:27:10.980 revisited
00:27:11.640 I don't want
00:27:14.560 to fight over
00:27:15.100 who gets to
00:27:15.700 define the term
00:27:16.500 free will
00:27:17.040 as I see it
00:27:18.040 there are two
00:27:18.620 completely
00:27:20.060 intention
00:27:21.920 themes out there
00:27:23.780 about what
00:27:24.100 free will is
00:27:24.720 one is that
00:27:25.560 it's incompatible
00:27:26.320 with determinism
00:27:27.140 and the other
00:27:28.080 is that it's
00:27:28.620 the basis
00:27:29.000 of moral
00:27:29.500 responsibility
00:27:30.100 I think it's
00:27:31.160 the second one
00:27:31.780 that's the
00:27:32.120 important one
00:27:32.740 that's the
00:27:33.700 variety of
00:27:34.240 free will
00:27:34.620 worth wanting
00:27:35.300 and I think
00:27:36.340 the other
00:27:36.580 one's a
00:27:36.880 throwaway
00:27:37.360 and I agree
00:27:38.620 with you
00:27:39.020 indeterminist
00:27:40.020 free will
00:27:40.520 libertarian
00:27:41.140 free will
00:27:41.620 is a
00:27:42.860 philosopher's
00:27:44.540 fantasy
00:27:44.920 it is not
00:27:46.340 worth it
00:27:47.100 it is just
00:27:47.720 a fantasy
00:27:49.640 so we agree
00:27:51.000 on so much
00:27:51.600 we have
00:27:52.380 no
00:27:53.160 love for
00:27:55.180 libertarian
00:27:56.540 indeterminism
00:27:58.360 for agent
00:27:59.200 causation
00:27:59.840 for all of
00:28:00.620 that metaphysical
00:28:01.400 gobbledygook
00:28:02.060 we're both
00:28:03.000 good naturalists
00:28:03.880 and
00:28:04.920 we both
00:28:06.360 agree
00:28:06.720 that the
00:28:07.900 truths of
00:28:08.600 neuroscience
00:28:09.180 and the
00:28:10.940 truths of
00:28:11.240 physics
00:28:11.500 physics
00:28:11.800 doesn't have
00:28:12.220 much to do
00:28:12.600 with it
00:28:12.860 actually
00:28:13.180 are compatible
00:28:14.800 with
00:28:15.920 most of
00:28:18.380 our
00:28:18.840 understanding
00:28:20.200 our everyday
00:28:21.020 understanding
00:28:21.800 of
00:28:22.380 responsibility
00:28:23.960 taking
00:28:25.360 responsibility
00:28:26.220 being
00:28:27.940 morally
00:28:28.540 responsible
00:28:29.060 enough
00:28:29.540 to be
00:28:31.160 held to
00:28:31.500 our word
00:28:32.040 I mean
00:28:32.520 you and I
00:28:33.180 both agree
00:28:33.800 that you
00:28:34.960 are competent
00:28:36.040 to sign a
00:28:36.620 contract
00:28:37.120 me too
00:28:38.520 you know
00:28:39.540 if you
00:28:39.800 go and
00:28:40.500 sign a
00:28:41.420 deed
00:28:41.960 or a
00:28:43.360 mortgage
00:28:43.760 very often
00:28:44.880 if it's
00:28:45.200 notarized
00:28:45.700 the notary
00:28:46.120 public
00:28:46.480 will say
00:28:47.000 are you
00:28:47.740 signing this
00:28:48.220 of your
00:28:48.500 own free
00:28:48.840 will
00:28:49.040 and I
00:28:50.660 recently did
00:28:51.520 I said
00:28:51.740 yeah I am
00:28:52.260 that's the
00:28:53.740 sense of
00:28:54.080 free will
00:28:54.420 that I
00:28:54.720 think is
00:28:55.020 important
00:28:55.420 I have
00:28:56.460 it
00:28:56.620 there are
00:28:57.840 a lot
00:28:58.020 of people
00:28:58.320 that don't
00:28:58.700 have that
00:28:59.100 free will
00:28:59.500 and it
00:28:59.820 has nothing
00:29:00.300 to do
00:29:00.640 with
00:29:00.820 indeterminism
00:29:01.560 it has
00:29:02.660 to do
00:29:02.940 with their
00:29:03.220 being
00:29:03.620 disabled
00:29:05.520 in some
00:29:05.940 way
00:29:06.020 they don't
00:29:06.340 have
00:29:06.560 a
00:29:09.100 well
00:29:10.100 running
00:29:11.600 nervous
00:29:11.980 system
00:29:12.380 which you
00:29:13.080 need
00:29:13.400 if you're
00:29:13.800 going to
00:29:13.920 be a
00:29:14.160 responsible
00:29:14.560 agent
00:29:14.880 I think
00:29:15.420 you agree
00:29:15.740 with all
00:29:16.240 of that
00:29:16.640 so
00:29:17.360 I
00:29:17.940 certainly
00:29:18.400 agree
00:29:18.620 with most
00:29:19.060 of that
00:29:19.340 I think
00:29:19.600 there's
00:29:19.800 some
00:29:19.960 interesting
00:29:20.460 points
00:29:21.360 of
00:29:21.680 disagreement
00:29:22.320 on
00:29:23.000 the
00:29:23.760 moral
00:29:24.000 responsibility
00:29:24.580 issue
00:29:25.300 which we
00:29:26.120 should
00:29:26.260 talk
00:29:26.480 about
00:29:26.700 I
00:29:26.980 guess
00:29:27.180 I
00:29:27.300 want
00:29:27.560 you
00:29:27.820 to
00:29:28.020 also
00:29:28.700 express
00:29:30.120 what
00:29:31.020 compatibilism
00:29:32.060 means
00:29:32.580 to you
00:29:33.060 and if
00:29:33.440 you
00:29:33.520 recall
00:29:33.960 the way
00:29:34.300 in which
00:29:34.580 I
00:29:34.840 got that
00:29:35.420 wrong
00:29:35.740 feel free
00:29:36.080 to say
00:29:36.320 that
00:29:36.480 but I'll
00:29:37.340 then react
00:29:38.080 to your
00:29:38.780 version
00:29:39.180 of
00:29:39.340 compatibilism
00:29:40.000 my view
00:29:40.980 of
00:29:41.140 compatibilism
00:29:41.900 is pretty
00:29:42.380 much
00:29:42.600 what I
00:29:43.140 just
00:29:43.360 said
00:29:43.620 and you
00:29:44.240 were
00:29:44.360 nodding
00:29:44.760 and
00:29:45.200 you
00:29:46.240 were
00:29:46.360 not
00:29:46.520 considering
00:29:46.940 that
00:29:47.320 a
00:29:48.120 serious
00:29:48.480 view
00:29:48.720 about
00:29:48.960 free
00:29:49.180 will
00:29:49.400 one
00:29:50.320 of the
00:29:50.960 abiding
00:29:51.540 themes
00:29:52.100 in my
00:29:52.520 work
00:29:52.820 is
00:29:53.060 there
00:29:54.100 are
00:29:54.220 these
00:29:54.560 tactical
00:29:56.580 or
00:29:56.860 diplomatic
00:29:57.360 choice
00:29:57.760 points
00:29:58.100 you
00:29:59.240 can
00:29:59.400 say
00:29:59.840 oh
00:30:01.740 consciousness
00:30:02.240 exists
00:30:03.160 it just
00:30:03.980 isn't
00:30:04.200 what you
00:30:04.500 think
00:30:04.720 it is
00:30:05.120 or
00:30:06.020 you
00:30:06.240 can
00:30:06.360 say
00:30:06.540 no
00:30:06.820 consciousness
00:30:07.320 doesn't
00:30:07.740 exist
00:30:08.120 well
00:30:08.580 if
00:30:08.920 you've
00:30:09.060 got
00:30:09.200 one
00:30:09.440 view
00:30:09.640 of
00:30:09.780 consciousness
00:30:10.240 if
00:30:11.080 it's
00:30:11.280 this
00:30:11.540 mysterious
00:30:12.460 magical
00:30:13.240 ultimately
00:30:14.820 insoluble
00:30:16.200 problem
00:30:16.780 then I
00:30:17.680 agree
00:30:17.880 consciousness
00:30:18.320 in that
00:30:18.920 sense
00:30:19.160 doesn't
00:30:19.500 exist
00:30:19.920 but
00:30:21.120 there's
00:30:21.680 another
00:30:21.920 sense
00:30:22.320 much
00:30:23.160 more
00:30:23.460 presentable
00:30:24.100 I think
00:30:24.440 which
00:30:24.840 of course
00:30:25.200 consciousness
00:30:25.760 exists
00:30:26.420 it just
00:30:27.240 isn't
00:30:27.780 what you
00:30:28.100 think
00:30:28.280 it
00:30:28.400 is
00:30:28.640 that
00:30:29.660 was
00:30:29.840 a
00:30:30.000 central
00:30:30.280 theme
00:30:30.660 in
00:30:31.060 elbow
00:30:31.380 room
00:30:31.680 with regard
00:30:32.520 to
00:30:32.700 free
00:30:32.900 will
00:30:33.140 and
00:30:34.040 in
00:30:34.580 consciousness
00:30:35.120 explained
00:30:35.720 with regard
00:30:36.160 to
00:30:36.340 consciousness
00:30:36.800 my
00:30:37.540 view
00:30:38.300 my
00:30:38.680 tactic
00:30:39.320 and
00:30:39.620 notice
00:30:40.100 those
00:30:42.040 two
00:30:42.240 views
00:30:42.480 they look
00:30:42.800 as if
00:30:43.440 they're
00:30:44.720 doctrinally
00:30:45.560 opposed
00:30:46.080 they're
00:30:46.280 not
00:30:46.620 they're
00:30:47.260 two
00:30:47.600 different
00:30:47.820 ways
00:30:48.020 of
00:30:48.140 dealing
00:30:48.320 with
00:30:48.460 the
00:30:48.600 same
00:30:48.860 issue
00:30:49.220 does
00:30:50.060 free
00:30:50.260 will
00:30:50.440 really
00:30:50.700 exist
00:30:51.140 well
00:30:52.000 if
00:30:52.260 free
00:30:53.020 will
00:30:53.240 means
00:30:53.580 what
00:30:53.800 Dennett
00:30:54.380 says
00:30:54.660 it
00:30:54.800 means
00:30:55.100 yes
00:30:55.580 and you
00:30:56.980 agree
00:30:57.260 if it
00:30:57.860 means
00:30:58.160 what
00:30:58.420 some
00:30:59.960 people
00:31:00.200 think
00:31:00.460 then the
00:31:00.820 answer
00:31:01.040 is
00:31:01.240 no
00:31:01.480 yeah
00:31:01.980 I
00:31:02.340 understand
00:31:02.660 that
00:31:03.060 but I
00:31:03.580 would
00:31:03.700 put to
00:31:04.560 you
00:31:04.680 the
00:31:04.840 question
00:31:05.280 there is
00:31:06.840 a
00:31:07.040 difference
00:31:07.560 between
00:31:08.140 explaining
00:31:09.000 something
00:31:09.440 and
00:31:10.460 changing
00:31:11.040 the
00:31:11.380 subject
00:31:11.900 so this
00:31:13.160 is my
00:31:13.380 gripe
00:31:13.600 about
00:31:13.800 compatibilism
00:31:14.460 and this
00:31:14.800 is
00:31:14.940 something
00:31:15.700 we'll
00:31:15.880 get
00:31:16.000 into
00:31:16.240 so
00:31:16.840 but I
00:31:17.360 assume
00:31:18.140 you
00:31:18.320 will
00:31:18.480 admit
00:31:18.760 that
00:31:18.960 there
00:31:19.240 is
00:31:19.380 a
00:31:19.480 difference
00:31:19.780 between
00:31:20.280 purifying
00:31:21.540 a
00:31:22.100 real
00:31:22.460 phenomenon
00:31:22.940 of
00:31:23.380 its
00:31:23.700 folk
00:31:24.080 psychological
00:31:24.700 baggage
00:31:25.220 which I
00:31:25.920 think
00:31:26.080 this is
00:31:26.340 what you
00:31:26.640 think
00:31:26.980 compatibilism
00:31:27.680 is doing
00:31:28.060 and
00:31:29.280 actually
00:31:30.340 failing
00:31:31.780 to
00:31:32.440 interact
00:31:33.180 with
00:31:33.720 some
00:31:33.940 core
00:31:34.380 features
00:31:34.920 that are
00:31:35.700 just
00:31:36.060 inelimitable
00:31:36.640 from the
00:31:37.080 concept
00:31:37.420 itself
00:31:37.900 let me
00:31:38.480 surprise
00:31:38.880 you by
00:31:39.160 saying
00:31:39.360 I don't
00:31:39.980 think
00:31:40.140 there's
00:31:40.320 a sharp
00:31:40.640 line
00:31:40.880 between
00:31:41.160 those
00:31:41.400 two
00:31:41.620 and I
00:31:42.260 think
00:31:42.380 that's
00:31:42.560 quite
00:31:42.740 obvious
00:31:43.120 that
00:31:44.080 whether I'm
00:31:45.100 changing
00:31:45.400 the subject
00:31:45.940 I'm so
00:31:47.500 used to
00:31:47.820 that
00:31:48.000 retort
00:31:48.420 about
00:31:49.100 any
00:31:49.540 line
00:31:50.160 along
00:31:50.500 this
00:31:50.780 so
00:31:51.340 no
00:31:51.740 I
00:31:51.920 think
00:31:52.120 that's
00:31:53.160 just
00:31:53.700 a
00:31:53.880 debater's
00:31:54.360 point
00:31:54.560 we should
00:31:54.920 just
00:31:55.100 set
00:31:55.260 that
00:31:55.460 aside
00:31:55.840 saying
00:31:57.200 you're
00:31:57.540 just
00:31:57.780 changing
00:31:58.180 the
00:31:58.380 subject
00:31:58.740 is a
00:31:59.540 way
00:31:59.800 of
00:32:00.300 declaring
00:32:01.480 a
00:32:02.520 whole
00:32:02.940 manifold
00:32:05.700 a whole
00:32:06.180 variety
00:32:07.040 spectrum
00:32:08.000 of
00:32:08.840 clarificatory
00:32:10.060 views
00:32:10.560 which
00:32:11.180 you're
00:32:11.320 not
00:32:11.480 accepting
00:32:11.840 because
00:32:12.200 you're
00:32:12.560 clinging
00:32:12.920 to
00:32:13.200 some
00:32:13.480 core
00:32:14.040 part
00:32:14.740 of
00:32:15.200 what
00:32:15.360 free
00:32:15.600 will
00:32:15.800 is
00:32:15.960 you
00:32:16.380 want
00:32:16.660 to
00:32:16.780 claim
00:32:17.120 that
00:32:17.540 free
00:32:18.200 will
00:32:18.420 the
00:32:18.640 core
00:32:19.200 of
00:32:19.580 free
00:32:19.760 will
00:32:20.000 is
00:32:20.360 its
00:32:20.600 denial
00:32:22.360 of
00:32:22.640 determinism
00:32:23.280 and
00:32:24.240 I've
00:32:25.220 made a
00:32:25.460 career
00:32:25.620 saying
00:32:25.840 that's
00:32:26.100 not
00:32:26.260 the
00:32:26.420 core
00:32:26.680 in fact
00:32:27.760 let me
00:32:28.080 try
00:32:28.380 a new
00:32:29.320 line
00:32:30.140 on you
00:32:30.440 because
00:32:30.840 I've
00:32:31.260 been
00:32:31.320 thinking
00:32:31.440 why
00:32:31.740 doesn't
00:32:32.320 he
00:32:32.480 see
00:32:32.660 this
00:32:33.020 the way
00:32:33.920 I
00:32:34.080 see
00:32:34.240 it
00:32:34.420 and
00:32:35.300 I
00:32:36.240 think
00:32:36.640 that
00:32:38.080 the
00:32:38.480 big
00:32:38.980 source
00:32:40.120 the
00:32:40.380 likely
00:32:40.740 big
00:32:41.140 source
00:32:41.580 of
00:32:42.200 confusion
00:32:42.680 about
00:32:43.000 this
00:32:43.340 is
00:32:44.280 that
00:32:44.420 when
00:32:44.580 people
00:32:44.880 think
00:32:45.160 about
00:32:45.460 freedom
00:32:45.920 in the
00:32:47.540 context
00:32:47.960 of
00:32:48.140 free
00:32:48.320 will
00:32:48.560 they're
00:32:49.680 ignoring
00:32:50.180 a very
00:32:50.820 good
00:32:51.140 and
00:32:51.300 legitimate
00:32:51.680 notion
00:32:52.560 of
00:32:52.780 freedom
00:32:53.060 which is
00:32:54.380 basically
00:32:54.920 the
00:32:55.180 engineering
00:32:55.620 notion
00:32:56.040 of
00:32:56.260 freedom
00:32:56.520 when you
00:32:57.240 talk about
00:32:57.580 degrees
00:32:57.900 of
00:32:58.080 freedom
00:32:58.360 my
00:32:59.620 arms
00:33:00.100 my
00:33:00.760 wrist
00:33:01.160 and
00:33:01.360 my
00:33:01.520 shoulder
00:33:01.920 my
00:33:02.220 elbow
00:33:02.580 those
00:33:03.060 joints
00:33:03.440 there's
00:33:04.720 three
00:33:05.360 degrees
00:33:05.860 of
00:33:06.020 freedom
00:33:06.240 right
00:33:06.500 there
00:33:06.720 and
00:33:07.440 in
00:33:07.800 control
00:33:08.340 theory
00:33:08.740 it's
00:33:09.480 all about
00:33:09.860 how you
00:33:10.200 control
00:33:10.520 the
00:33:10.720 degrees
00:33:11.000 of
00:33:11.180 freedom
00:33:11.440 and
00:33:12.520 if we
00:33:13.620 look around
00:33:14.380 the world
00:33:14.780 we can
00:33:15.120 see that
00:33:15.480 some
00:33:15.960 things
00:33:16.160 have
00:33:16.320 basically
00:33:16.700 no
00:33:17.020 degrees
00:33:17.380 of
00:33:17.560 freedom
00:33:17.840 that
00:33:18.300 rock
00:33:18.620 over
00:33:18.840 there
00:33:19.080 and
00:33:19.440 some
00:33:19.660 things
00:33:19.880 like
00:33:20.120 you
00:33:20.300 and
00:33:20.400 me
00:33:20.640 have
00:33:21.220 uncountably
00:33:22.360 many
00:33:22.640 degrees
00:33:23.040 of
00:33:23.220 freedom
00:33:23.460 because
00:33:23.980 of
00:33:24.500 the
00:33:24.660 versatility
00:33:25.160 of
00:33:25.380 our
00:33:25.540 minds
00:33:25.880 the
00:33:26.300 capacity
00:33:28.360 be moved
00:33:29.400 by
00:33:29.700 reasons
00:33:30.160 on
00:33:30.900 any
00:33:31.200 topic
00:33:31.640 at
00:33:32.000 all
00:33:32.360 this
00:33:33.240 gives
00:33:33.560 us
00:33:33.860 a
00:33:34.560 complexity
00:33:35.060 from
00:33:35.380 the
00:33:35.520 point
00:33:35.700 of
00:33:35.820 view
00:33:35.900 of
00:33:36.000 control
00:33:36.320 theory
00:33:36.640 which
00:33:37.220 is
00:33:37.400 completely
00:33:38.060 absent
00:33:38.520 in
00:33:38.780 any
00:33:39.000 other
00:33:39.200 creature
00:33:39.540 and
00:33:40.580 that
00:33:41.140 kind
00:33:41.460 of
00:33:41.620 freedom
00:33:41.900 is
00:33:42.780 actually
00:33:43.460 I
00:33:43.900 claim
00:33:44.280 at
00:33:44.780 the
00:33:44.980 heart
00:33:45.360 of
00:33:46.280 our
00:33:46.440 understanding
00:33:46.940 of
00:33:47.140 free
00:33:47.320 will
00:33:47.520 because
00:33:48.040 it's
00:33:48.320 that
00:33:48.680 complexity
00:33:49.660 which
00:33:50.460 is
00:33:50.580 not
00:33:50.760 just
00:33:50.980 complexity
00:33:51.480 but
00:33:52.220 it's
00:33:52.400 the
00:33:52.580 competence
00:33:53.020 to
00:33:53.380 control
00:33:53.820 that
00:33:54.120 complexity
00:33:54.620 that's
00:33:55.400 what
00:33:55.560 free
00:33:55.820 will
00:33:56.080 is
00:33:56.440 I
00:33:57.360 mean
00:33:57.480 let me
00:33:57.920 ask
00:33:58.280 you
00:33:58.520 a
00:33:59.940 question
00:34:00.220 about
00:34:00.540 what
00:34:01.240 would
00:34:01.400 be
00:34:01.640 ideal
00:34:02.580 from
00:34:03.680 the
00:34:03.840 point
00:34:04.020 of
00:34:04.160 view
00:34:04.300 of
00:34:04.580 responsibility
00:34:05.180 what
00:34:06.720 does
00:34:06.920 an
00:34:07.120 ideal
00:34:07.560 responsible
00:34:08.200 agent
00:34:08.700 have
00:34:09.640 mainly
00:34:10.280 true
00:34:10.560 beliefs
00:34:10.960 a
00:34:11.920 well-ordered
00:34:12.380 set
00:34:12.640 of
00:34:12.760 desires
00:34:13.380 cognitive
00:34:15.400 adroitness
00:34:16.020 to change
00:34:16.840 one's
00:34:17.080 attention
00:34:17.460 to change
00:34:17.940 one's
00:34:18.220 mind
00:34:18.500 to be
00:34:18.800 moved
00:34:19.040 by
00:34:19.220 reasons
00:34:19.680 the
00:34:20.000 capacity
00:34:20.460 to listen
00:34:20.940 to
00:34:21.120 reasons
00:34:21.480 the
00:34:22.200 capacity
00:34:22.640 for
00:34:23.100 some
00:34:23.320 self
00:34:23.600 control
00:34:24.040 these
00:34:25.340 things
00:34:25.540 all
00:34:25.760 come
00:34:25.980 in
00:34:26.120 degrees
00:34:26.620 but
00:34:27.600 our
00:34:28.200 model
00:34:28.800 of a
00:34:29.520 responsible
00:34:30.120 adult
00:34:30.700 someone
00:34:31.740 you
00:34:31.940 would
00:34:32.100 trust
00:34:32.380 someone
00:34:32.640 you
00:34:32.860 would
00:34:33.060 make
00:34:33.940 a
00:34:34.080 promise
00:34:34.400 to
00:34:34.740 or
00:34:35.700 you
00:34:35.980 would
00:34:36.140 accept
00:34:36.420 a
00:34:36.600 promise
00:34:36.900 from
00:34:37.300 is
00:34:37.580 somebody
00:34:37.860 with
00:34:38.100 all
00:34:38.280 those
00:34:38.600 degrees
00:34:39.440 of
00:34:39.580 freedom
00:34:39.740 and
00:34:40.080 control
00:34:40.640 of
00:34:40.840 them
00:34:41.020 now
00:34:41.900 what
00:34:43.500 removes
00:34:44.880 freedom
00:34:45.720 from
00:34:45.980 somebody
00:34:46.380 is if
00:34:47.340 either
00:34:48.000 the
00:34:48.220 degrees
00:34:48.700 of
00:34:48.860 freedom
00:34:49.080 don't
00:34:49.360 exist
00:34:49.660 they're
00:34:49.980 blocked
00:34:50.720 mechanically
00:34:51.520 or
00:34:52.380 some
00:34:52.640 other
00:34:52.880 agent
00:34:53.340 has
00:34:53.960 usurped
00:34:54.480 them
00:34:54.920 and
00:34:55.320 has
00:34:55.460 taken
00:34:55.720 over
00:34:56.020 control
00:34:56.540 a
00:34:57.660 marionette
00:34:58.240 and
00:34:58.920 a
00:34:59.060 puppeteer
00:34:59.620 and
00:35:00.400 so
00:35:01.240 I
00:35:03.040 think
00:35:03.620 that
00:35:03.860 our
00:35:04.420 model
00:35:05.080 of
00:35:05.700 a
00:35:05.900 free
00:35:06.120 agent
00:35:06.540 says
00:35:08.260 nothing
00:35:08.700 at all
00:35:09.080 about
00:35:09.360 indeterminism
00:35:10.040 we can
00:35:11.540 distinguish
00:35:12.520 free
00:35:14.780 agents
00:35:15.220 from
00:35:15.580 unfree
00:35:15.960 agents
00:35:16.340 in a
00:35:17.020 deterministic
00:35:17.620 world
00:35:17.960 or in
00:35:18.380 an
00:35:18.580 indeterministic
00:35:19.280 world
00:35:19.600 determinism
00:35:20.720 and
00:35:20.880 indeterminism
00:35:21.500 make
00:35:21.780 no
00:35:22.240 difference
00:35:22.740 to
00:35:23.240 that
00:35:23.480 categorization
00:35:24.120 and
00:35:24.480 it's
00:35:24.680 that
00:35:25.000 categorization
00:35:26.120 which
00:35:26.800 makes
00:35:27.040 the
00:35:27.200 moral
00:35:27.400 difference
00:35:27.840 so
00:35:28.620 yeah
00:35:29.120 I
00:35:29.280 agree
00:35:29.560 with
00:35:29.920 almost
00:35:30.420 all
00:35:30.660 of
00:35:30.800 that
00:35:30.960 I
00:35:31.120 just
00:35:31.340 need
00:35:31.480 to
00:35:31.600 put
00:35:31.800 a
00:35:31.940 few
00:35:32.080 more
00:35:32.300 pieces
00:35:32.720 in
00:35:33.140 play
00:35:33.400 here
00:35:33.660 I
00:35:33.920 think
00:35:34.140 there
00:35:34.340 is
00:35:34.680 an
00:35:34.780 important
00:35:35.100 difference
00:35:35.640 nevertheless
00:35:36.700 I
00:35:37.020 agree
00:35:37.620 that
00:35:37.820 there
00:35:38.020 is
00:35:38.140 no
00:35:38.240 bright
00:35:38.480 line
00:35:38.740 between
00:35:38.980 changing
00:35:39.320 the
00:35:39.480 subject
00:35:39.740 and
00:35:40.120 actually
00:35:40.400 purifying
00:35:40.980 a
00:35:41.160 concept
00:35:41.540 of
00:35:41.920 illusions
00:35:42.400 and
00:35:43.000 actually
00:35:43.840 explaining
00:35:44.280 something
00:35:44.620 scientifically
00:35:45.180 about
00:35:45.560 the
00:35:45.720 world
00:35:45.920 but
00:35:46.920 in
00:35:47.060 this
00:35:47.260 case
00:35:47.660 the
00:35:48.460 durability
00:35:49.240 of
00:35:49.920 free
00:35:50.360 will
00:35:50.620 as
00:35:50.800 a
00:35:50.960 problem
00:35:51.380 for
00:35:51.700 philosophers
00:35:52.260 and
00:35:52.980 now
00:35:53.160 scientists
00:35:53.560 is
00:35:54.560 based
00:35:55.160 on
00:35:55.840 people's
00:35:56.760 first
00:35:57.120 person
00:35:57.480 experience
00:35:58.020 of
00:35:58.360 something
00:35:58.640 they
00:35:58.840 think
00:35:59.040 they
00:35:59.220 have
00:35:59.500 people
00:35:59.780 feel
00:36:00.240 like
00:36:00.460 they
00:36:00.620 are
00:36:00.740 the
00:36:00.860 authors
00:36:01.200 of
00:36:01.580 their
00:36:01.820 thoughts
00:36:02.360 and
00:36:02.540 intentions
00:36:02.960 and
00:36:03.240 actions
00:36:03.640 and
00:36:04.560 so
00:36:04.740 there's
00:36:05.040 a
00:36:05.220 first
00:36:05.860 person
00:36:06.320 description
00:36:07.040 of
00:36:07.700 this
00:36:07.960 problem
00:36:08.320 and
00:36:08.500 there's
00:36:08.660 a
00:36:08.780 third
00:36:08.960 person
00:36:09.300 description
00:36:09.680 of
00:36:09.860 this
00:36:09.980 problem
00:36:10.300 and
00:36:10.820 I
00:36:11.620 think
00:36:11.820 if
00:36:11.980 we
00:36:12.360 bounce
00:36:13.140 between
00:36:13.480 the
00:36:13.660 two
00:36:13.860 without
00:36:14.160 knowing
00:36:14.560 that
00:36:14.720 we
00:36:19.800 feel
00:36:20.240 that
00:36:20.860 they
00:36:21.000 have
00:36:21.240 libertarian
00:36:21.780 free
00:36:22.000 will
00:36:22.220 and
00:36:22.380 when
00:36:22.480 I
00:36:22.620 get
00:36:23.120 emails
00:36:23.640 from
00:36:23.980 people
00:36:24.280 who
00:36:24.520 are
00:36:24.740 psychologically
00:36:25.620 destabilized
00:36:26.700 by my
00:36:27.140 argument
00:36:27.520 that
00:36:27.740 free
00:36:27.900 will
00:36:28.060 doesn't
00:36:28.360 exist
00:36:28.700 these
00:36:29.320 are
00:36:29.420 people
00:36:29.660 who
00:36:29.860 feel
00:36:30.280 like
00:36:30.660 something
00:36:31.660 integral
00:36:32.460 to
00:36:32.720 their
00:36:32.900 psychological
00:36:33.600 life
00:36:34.100 and
00:36:34.240 well-being
00:36:34.800 is
00:36:35.480 being
00:36:35.720 put
00:36:35.960 in
00:36:36.100 jeopardy
00:36:36.600 people
00:36:37.320 feel
00:36:37.860 that
00:36:38.700 if
00:36:39.200 they
00:36:39.380 rewound
00:36:39.920 the
00:36:40.060 movie
00:36:40.260 of
00:36:40.380 their
00:36:40.480 lives
00:36:40.820 they
00:36:41.000 could
00:36:41.340 do
00:36:41.580 differently
00:36:42.040 in
00:36:42.440 each
00:36:42.600 moment
00:36:42.940 and
00:36:43.260 that
00:36:43.500 feeling
00:36:43.940 is
00:36:44.460 the
00:36:44.920 thing
00:36:45.240 that
00:36:45.540 is
00:36:46.000 what
00:36:46.440 people
00:36:46.660 find
00:36:46.920 so
00:36:47.080 interesting
00:36:47.500 about
00:36:47.780 this
00:36:48.000 notion
00:36:48.480 that
00:36:48.660 free
00:36:48.820 will
00:36:48.960 doesn't
00:36:49.240 exist
00:36:49.560 because
00:36:49.840 it
00:36:50.060 is
00:36:50.340 so
00:36:50.640 counterintuitive
00:36:51.380 psychologically
00:36:51.980 now I
00:36:52.440 can tell
00:36:52.880 you
00:36:53.160 that I
00:36:54.140 no longer
00:36:54.680 feel that
00:36:55.400 subjectively
00:36:56.360 my experience
00:36:57.120 of myself
00:36:57.660 I'm aware
00:36:59.140 of the
00:36:59.900 fact
00:37:00.260 that
00:37:00.660 it is
00:37:01.340 a
00:37:01.500 subjective
00:37:02.060 mystery
00:37:02.680 to me
00:37:03.300 how
00:37:04.220 these
00:37:04.500 words
00:37:04.880 come out
00:37:05.320 of my
00:37:05.660 mouth
00:37:06.020 it's
00:37:06.240 like
00:37:06.340 I'm
00:37:06.660 hearing
00:37:06.840 these
00:37:07.020 words
00:37:07.260 as
00:37:07.360 you're
00:37:07.520 hearing
00:37:07.700 these
00:37:07.860 words
00:37:08.100 right
00:37:08.240 I'm
00:37:08.360 thinking
00:37:08.580 out
00:37:08.820 loud
00:37:09.020 right
00:37:09.220 now
00:37:09.360 I
00:37:09.600 haven't
00:37:10.000 thought
00:37:10.200 this
00:37:10.420 thought
00:37:10.660 before
00:37:10.960 I
00:37:11.120 thought
00:37:11.340 it
00:37:11.480 right
00:37:11.700 it's
00:37:11.860 just
00:37:12.040 coming
00:37:12.400 and
00:37:13.380 I
00:37:14.160 am
00:37:14.300 subjectively
00:37:15.000 aware
00:37:15.360 of the
00:37:15.640 fact
00:37:15.960 that
00:37:16.340 this
00:37:17.760 is
00:37:17.880 all
00:37:18.420 coming
00:37:19.560 out
00:37:19.860 of
00:37:20.000 the
00:37:20.120 darkness
00:37:20.520 of
00:37:21.320 my
00:37:21.980 unconscious
00:37:22.480 mind
00:37:23.000 in some
00:37:23.360 sense
00:37:23.640 there's
00:37:23.920 this
00:37:24.080 sphere
00:37:24.340 of my
00:37:24.600 mind
00:37:24.860 that
00:37:25.020 is
00:37:25.260 illuminated
00:37:26.100 by
00:37:26.500 consciousness
00:37:27.380 for lack
00:37:28.380 of a better
00:37:28.700 word
00:37:28.960 and
00:37:29.840 I
00:37:30.740 can
00:37:30.900 be
00:37:31.340 subjectively
00:37:32.720 identified
00:37:33.600 with it
00:37:34.140 but then
00:37:35.100 there's
00:37:35.380 all the
00:37:35.860 stuff
00:37:36.180 that is
00:37:36.640 simply
00:37:37.000 just
00:37:37.260 arriving
00:37:38.120 appearing
00:37:38.720 in
00:37:38.960 consciousness
00:37:39.380 the contents
00:37:39.940 of
00:37:40.100 consciousness
00:37:40.440 which
00:37:40.900 I
00:37:41.620 can't
00:37:41.960 notice
00:37:42.260 until
00:37:42.460 I
00:37:42.600 notice
00:37:42.840 them
00:37:43.040 and
00:37:43.260 I
00:37:43.380 can't
00:37:43.680 think
00:37:43.920 the
00:37:44.100 thought
00:37:44.320 before
00:37:44.580 I
00:37:44.740 think
00:37:44.940 it
00:37:45.080 and
00:37:45.540 my
00:37:46.180 direct
00:37:46.620 experience
00:37:47.300 is
00:37:48.380 compatible
00:37:48.980 with
00:37:49.880 a
00:37:50.420 purely
00:37:50.980 deterministic
00:37:51.860 world
00:37:52.620 right
00:37:52.940 now
00:37:53.080 most
00:37:53.320 people's
00:37:53.820 isn't
00:37:54.140 or they
00:37:54.500 don't
00:37:54.680 think
00:37:54.900 it
00:37:55.020 is
00:37:55.240 and
00:37:55.400 so
00:37:55.500 that's
00:37:55.900 where
00:37:56.160 when
00:37:56.420 you
00:37:56.940 change
00:37:57.380 the
00:37:57.540 subject
00:37:58.960 in
00:37:59.080 my
00:37:59.300 article
00:38:00.200 that
00:38:00.420 responded
00:38:00.800 to
00:38:01.000 your
00:38:01.140 review
00:38:01.500 is
00:38:02.480 the
00:38:03.380 notion
00:38:03.620 of
00:38:03.760 Atlantis
00:38:04.160 so
00:38:04.660 people
00:38:05.200 are
00:38:05.400 infatuated
00:38:06.020 with
00:38:06.160 this
00:38:06.280 idea
00:38:06.480 of
00:38:06.580 Atlantis
00:38:06.980 I
00:38:07.640 say
00:38:07.940 actually
00:38:08.340 Atlantis
00:38:08.720 doesn't
00:38:09.020 exist
00:38:09.420 it's
00:38:09.700 a
00:38:09.840 myth
00:38:10.080 there's
00:38:10.740 nothing
00:38:11.000 in
00:38:11.240 the
00:38:11.360 world
00:38:11.560 that
00:38:11.720 answers
00:38:12.020 to
00:38:12.200 the
00:38:12.300 name
00:38:12.440 of
00:38:12.560 Atlantis
00:38:12.980 there
00:38:13.760 was
00:38:13.880 no
00:38:14.040 underwater
00:38:14.460 kingdom
00:38:14.840 with
00:38:15.280 advanced
00:38:15.660 technology
00:38:16.240 and
00:38:16.580 all
00:38:16.840 the
00:38:16.980 rest
00:38:17.220 and
00:38:18.080 whoever
00:38:18.560 it
00:38:18.740 was
00:38:18.900 Plato
00:38:19.220 was
00:38:19.480 confused
00:38:19.900 on
00:38:20.180 this
00:38:20.300 topic
00:38:20.600 or
00:38:21.160 just
00:38:21.440 spinning
00:38:21.760 yarn
00:38:22.660 and
00:38:23.900 you
00:38:28.960 every
00:38:29.300 variant
00:38:29.760 takes
00:38:30.460 another
00:38:30.780 approach
00:38:31.140 it
00:38:31.320 says
00:38:31.540 no
00:38:31.740 no
00:38:31.900 actually
00:38:32.300 there
00:38:32.780 is
00:38:32.920 something
00:38:33.240 that
00:38:33.640 conserves
00:38:34.260 much
00:38:34.740 of
00:38:34.920 what
00:38:35.080 people
00:38:35.500 are
00:38:36.400 concerned
00:38:36.960 with
00:38:37.480 about
00:38:37.760 Atlantis
00:38:38.180 and
00:38:38.400 in
00:38:38.540 fact
00:38:38.820 it
00:38:39.220 may
00:38:39.440 be
00:38:39.600 the
00:38:39.760 historical
00:38:40.320 and
00:38:40.740 geographical
00:38:41.260 antecedent
00:38:42.040 to
00:38:42.360 the
00:38:42.720 first
00:38:43.080 stirrings
00:38:43.660 of
00:38:43.800 this
00:38:43.960 idea
00:38:44.260 of
00:38:44.400 Atlantis
00:38:44.740 and
00:38:44.920 there's
00:38:45.080 this
00:38:45.240 island
00:38:45.760 of
00:38:45.920 Sicily
00:38:46.260 the
00:38:46.440 biggest
00:38:46.740 island
00:38:47.060 in
00:38:47.240 the
00:38:47.340 Mediterranean
00:38:47.760 which
00:38:48.600 answers
00:38:48.900 to
00:38:49.160 much
00:38:49.600 of
00:38:49.740 what
00:38:49.880 people
00:38:50.140 care
00:38:50.400 about
00:38:50.680 with
00:38:50.920 Atlantis
00:38:51.280 and
00:38:51.920 I
00:38:52.020 say
00:38:52.180 well
00:38:58.960 you
00:38:59.180 and
00:38:59.300 I
00:38:59.400 are
00:38:59.540 going
00:38:59.980 to
00:39:00.140 agree
00:39:00.440 about
00:39:00.700 Sicily
00:39:01.120 99%
00:39:02.200 of
00:39:02.440 our
00:39:03.060 truth
00:39:03.740 claims
00:39:04.020 about
00:39:04.260 Sicily
00:39:04.600 are
00:39:04.740 going
00:39:04.880 to
00:39:04.980 converge
00:39:05.480 but
00:39:06.100 I'm
00:39:06.420 saying
00:39:06.780 the
00:39:07.320 whole
00:39:07.540 reason
00:39:07.960 why
00:39:08.200 we're
00:39:08.360 talking
00:39:08.640 about
00:39:08.860 Atlantis
00:39:09.220 in
00:39:09.360 the
00:39:09.460 first
00:39:09.620 place
00:39:09.840 is
00:39:10.000 this
00:39:10.200 other
00:39:10.620 piece
00:39:11.100 that
00:39:11.600 people
00:39:11.820 are
00:39:11.960 attached
00:39:12.320 to
00:39:12.640 which
00:39:13.380 by
00:39:13.980 you
00:39:14.240 purifying
00:39:14.920 the
00:39:15.100 subject
00:39:15.400 you're
00:39:16.280 actually
00:39:16.580 just
00:39:16.800 no
00:39:17.020 longer
00:39:17.300 interacting
00:39:17.920 with
00:39:18.200 that
00:39:18.360 subjective
00:39:18.760 piece
00:39:19.160 yeah
00:39:19.540 that's
00:39:20.040 well
00:39:21.100 put
00:39:21.420 your
00:39:22.120 position
00:39:22.520 is
00:39:22.840 that
00:39:23.060 you
00:39:23.920 can
00:39:24.160 see
00:39:28.960 something
00:39:29.880 sort
00:39:30.620 of
00:39:30.720 magical
00:39:31.120 and
00:39:32.360 you're
00:39:33.820 right
00:39:33.980 a lot
00:39:34.220 of
00:39:34.320 people
00:39:34.600 that's
00:39:36.100 what
00:39:36.220 they
00:39:36.400 if you
00:39:37.320 don't
00:39:37.460 think
00:39:37.620 free
00:39:37.820 will
00:39:37.940 is
00:39:38.040 magical
00:39:38.380 then
00:39:38.600 you
00:39:38.700 don't
00:39:38.860 believe
00:39:39.080 in
00:39:39.200 free
00:39:39.380 will
00:39:39.600 and
00:39:41.540 that's
00:39:42.560 what
00:39:42.660 I
00:39:42.800 confront
00:39:43.180 and say
00:39:44.380 well
00:39:46.040 I got
00:39:46.900 something
00:39:47.140 which isn't
00:39:47.680 magical
00:39:48.120 which is
00:39:49.200 perfectly
00:39:49.580 consistent
00:39:50.100 with
00:39:50.360 naturalism
00:39:50.980 and
00:39:51.840 gives
00:39:52.680 us
00:39:53.040 moral
00:39:54.020 responsibility
00:39:54.860 justification
00:39:55.820 for
00:39:56.540 the way
00:39:57.380 we treat
00:39:57.760 each
00:39:57.980 other
00:39:58.240 the
00:39:58.840 distinctions
00:39:59.340 that
00:39:59.620 matter
00:39:59.900 to
00:40:00.100 us
00:40:00.320 like
00:40:00.560 who
00:40:01.120 do
00:40:01.680 we
00:40:01.800 hold
00:40:01.980 responsible
00:40:02.420 and
00:40:02.600 who
00:40:02.700 don't
00:40:02.960 who
00:40:03.120 do
00:40:03.240 we
00:40:03.380 excuse
00:40:03.760 because
00:40:04.060 they
00:40:04.260 don't
00:40:04.440 have
00:40:04.620 free
00:40:04.800 will
00:40:05.000 it
00:40:05.240 gives
00:40:05.500 us
00:40:05.760 all
00:40:07.380 of the
00:40:07.820 landmarks
00:40:09.540 of our
00:40:10.060 daily
00:40:10.500 lives
00:40:11.020 and
00:40:12.020 explains
00:40:12.820 why
00:40:13.360 these
00:40:13.660 are
00:40:13.800 what
00:40:13.980 matters
00:40:14.460 and
00:40:15.380 indeed
00:40:15.840 though
00:40:16.280 if
00:40:17.020 the
00:40:17.540 mystery
00:40:18.020 if
00:40:18.900 the
00:40:19.060 magic
00:40:19.460 is
00:40:20.180 that
00:40:20.380 important
00:40:20.700 to
00:40:20.860 people
00:40:21.160 I
00:40:21.840 agree
00:40:22.040 with
00:40:22.160 you
00:40:22.220 that
00:40:22.660 magic
00:40:23.060 doesn't
00:40:23.400 exist
00:40:23.780 and
00:40:24.520 if
00:40:24.860 we're
00:40:25.640 going to
00:40:25.840 tie
00:40:26.060 free
00:40:26.340 will
00:40:26.500 to
00:40:26.660 that
00:40:28.840 I
00:40:28.880 would
00:40:29.000 say
00:40:29.200 no
00:40:30.040 free
00:40:30.280 will
00:40:30.400 doesn't
00:40:30.720 exist
00:40:31.100 now
00:40:31.960 you
00:40:33.280 said
00:40:33.540 something
00:40:33.780 very
00:40:34.020 interesting
00:40:34.440 you
00:40:34.680 said
00:40:35.000 that
00:40:35.400 the
00:40:37.200 reason
00:40:37.440 people
00:40:37.740 believe
00:40:38.120 in
00:40:38.300 this
00:40:38.600 is
00:40:39.740 because
00:40:40.020 they
00:40:40.320 feel
00:40:41.540 it
00:40:41.740 or
00:40:42.140 they
00:40:42.300 think
00:40:42.500 they
00:40:42.660 do
00:40:42.780 they
00:40:42.960 sort
00:40:43.160 of
00:40:43.760 intuit
00:40:44.280 they
00:40:45.340 could
00:40:45.540 have
00:40:45.660 done
00:40:45.840 something
00:40:46.180 different
00:40:46.500 in
00:40:46.700 exactly
00:40:47.140 the
00:40:47.360 same
00:40:47.560 situation
00:40:48.120 I
00:40:50.520 agree
00:40:50.920 with
00:40:51.200 you
00:40:51.500 that
00:40:52.760 they
00:40:53.180 that's
00:40:53.840 what
00:40:53.940 they
00:40:54.080 think
00:40:54.360 but
00:40:56.020 I
00:40:56.180 don't
00:40:56.600 think
00:40:58.040 that
00:40:58.620 it
00:40:59.160 is
00:40:59.300 a
00:40:59.480 forlorn
00:41:00.020 task
00:41:00.920 to
00:41:01.560 show
00:41:01.780 them
00:41:01.980 that
00:41:02.560 that's
00:41:02.820 not
00:41:03.020 really
00:41:03.680 what
00:41:03.900 they
00:41:04.060 should
00:41:04.260 think
00:41:04.560 about
00:41:04.820 this
00:41:05.120 about
00:41:05.720 the
00:41:05.960 very
00:41:06.240 feelings
00:41:06.680 they
00:41:06.880 have
00:41:07.300 let's
00:41:08.060 talk
00:41:08.660 about
00:41:08.880 control
00:41:09.320 one of
00:41:09.720 the
00:41:09.840 things
00:41:10.100 you
00:41:10.200 said
00:41:10.400 is
00:41:10.600 yeah
00:41:11.660 you
00:41:11.780 can't
00:41:12.020 control
00:41:12.260 your
00:41:12.420 genes
00:41:12.720 you
00:41:13.640 can't
00:41:13.880 control
00:41:14.160 your
00:41:14.360 environment
00:41:14.720 that's
00:41:15.020 right
00:41:15.220 and
00:41:16.640 as
00:41:16.900 a
00:41:17.060 sailor
00:41:17.380 I
00:41:18.600 can't
00:41:19.200 control
00:41:19.640 the
00:41:20.260 properties
00:41:20.620 of
00:41:20.780 the
00:41:20.900 water
00:41:21.220 I
00:41:21.640 can't
00:41:21.880 control
00:41:22.140 the
00:41:22.320 wind
00:41:22.540 but
00:41:22.880 I
00:41:23.020 can
00:41:23.180 control
00:41:23.540 the
00:41:23.720 boat
00:41:23.980 I
00:41:26.040 can't
00:41:26.340 control
00:41:26.700 how
00:41:27.360 hard
00:41:27.640 the
00:41:27.800 wind
00:41:28.020 blows
00:41:28.580 but
00:41:29.260 given
00:41:29.680 how
00:41:30.080 the
00:41:30.260 wind
00:41:30.380 blows
00:41:30.740 I
00:41:31.420 can
00:41:31.600 control
00:41:31.880 the
00:41:32.020 boat
00:41:32.100 now
00:41:32.260 maybe
00:41:32.520 you
00:41:32.760 couldn't
00:41:33.060 control
00:41:33.380 the
00:41:33.540 boat
00:41:33.640 because
00:41:33.880 you
00:41:34.020 don't
00:41:34.160 know
00:41:34.420 about
00:41:35.880 how
00:41:36.200 to
00:41:36.360 control
00:41:36.700 a
00:41:36.840 boat
00:41:36.960 but
00:41:37.340 I
00:41:37.500 do
00:41:37.740 and
00:41:37.960 I
00:41:38.140 can
00:41:38.520 control
00:41:38.920 the
00:41:39.100 boat
00:41:39.280 and
00:41:39.800 your
00:41:42.820 argument
00:41:44.400 is
00:41:44.760 trying
00:41:45.140 to
00:41:45.760 remove
00:41:46.360 the
00:41:46.700 very
00:41:46.920 idea
00:41:47.500 of
00:41:47.780 control
00:41:48.300 from
00:41:48.600 the
00:41:48.760 world
00:41:49.000 well
00:41:49.440 again
00:41:49.620 I
00:41:49.780 agree
00:41:50.160 there
00:41:50.420 is
00:41:50.660 this
00:41:51.040 practical
00:41:52.080 distinction
00:41:52.760 and
00:41:53.280 an
00:41:53.420 important
00:41:53.740 one
00:41:54.040 between
00:41:54.520 people
00:41:56.140 we
00:41:56.320 can
00:41:56.500 treat
00:41:57.680 as
00:41:58.060 responsible
00:41:58.620 agents
00:41:59.020 who
00:41:59.160 can
00:41:59.280 behave
00:41:59.820 themselves
00:42:00.260 we're
00:42:01.300 going to
00:42:01.620 let that
00:42:02.000 one fade
00:42:02.480 out
00:42:02.760 as the
00:42:03.100 derailment
00:42:03.580 of
00:42:03.720 disagreement
00:42:04.200 starts
00:42:04.600 to get
00:42:04.880 underway
00:42:05.200 but
00:42:06.480 it's
00:42:06.620 worth
00:42:06.800 your
00:42:06.960 time
00:42:07.200 to
00:42:07.380 listen
00:42:07.580 to
00:42:07.700 the
00:42:07.820 whole
00:42:08.000 two
00:42:08.220 hours
00:42:08.500 of
00:42:08.620 that
00:42:08.760 conversation
00:42:09.360 both
00:42:10.740 Sam
00:42:11.060 and
00:42:11.360 Dennett
00:42:11.620 have
00:42:11.800 written
00:42:12.000 extensively
00:42:12.500 on
00:42:12.740 this
00:42:12.920 topic
00:42:13.260 as
00:42:13.560 well
00:42:13.700 as
00:42:13.860 consciousness
00:42:14.300 and
00:42:15.120 we'll
00:42:15.260 be
00:42:15.400 sure
00:42:15.560 to
00:42:15.700 point
00:42:15.900 you
00:42:16.040 to
00:42:16.160 some
00:42:16.300 of
00:42:16.400 their
00:42:16.500 best
00:42:16.780 work
00:42:17.060 at
00:42:17.160 the
00:42:17.280 end
00:42:17.420 of
00:42:17.520 this
00:42:17.640 compilation
00:42:18.100 but
00:42:19.560 before
00:42:20.000 we
00:42:20.260 continue
00:42:20.600 on
00:42:20.860 with
00:42:21.000 the
00:42:21.140 clips
00:42:21.480 and
00:42:21.720 hear
00:42:21.900 some
00:42:22.120 thinkers
00:42:22.480 who
00:42:22.720 align
00:42:23.020 fully
00:42:23.360 with
00:42:23.560 Sam
00:42:23.860 and
00:42:24.160 some
00:42:24.360 others
00:42:24.580 who
00:42:24.720 don't
00:42:25.580 let's
00:42:25.880 see
00:42:26.020 if
00:42:26.160 we
00:42:26.380 can
00:42:26.580 figure
00:42:26.800 out
00:42:27.060 what
00:42:27.260 might
00:42:27.500 be
00:42:27.680 behind
00:42:28.080 this
00:42:28.340 sometimes
00:42:28.840 bewildering
00:42:29.580 breakdown
00:42:30.100 between
00:42:30.480 Sam
00:42:30.840 and
00:42:31.020 Dennett
00:42:31.300 Sam
00:42:33.040 flagged
00:42:33.480 a concern
00:42:33.980 that this
00:42:34.420 debate
00:42:34.780 can slip
00:42:35.280 between
00:42:35.640 first-person
00:42:36.420 and
00:42:36.680 third-person
00:42:37.240 accounts
00:42:37.660 of the
00:42:37.900 world
00:42:38.220 Sam
00:42:39.560 guesses
00:42:39.880 that
00:42:40.140 this
00:42:40.300 is
00:42:40.420 a
00:42:40.560 major
00:42:40.800 source
00:42:41.140 of
00:42:41.300 confusion
00:42:41.760 let's
00:42:42.740 take
00:42:42.920 a
00:42:43.060 closer
00:42:43.300 look
00:42:43.560 at
00:42:43.680 that
00:42:43.920 with
00:42:44.120 a
00:42:44.260 simple
00:42:44.500 scene
00:42:44.940 we'll
00:42:45.680 start
00:42:46.020 with
00:42:46.280 the
00:42:46.440 first-person
00:42:47.060 view
00:42:47.380 put
00:42:48.480 yourself
00:42:48.960 in a
00:42:49.420 seat
00:42:49.680 on
00:42:49.900 an
00:42:50.020 airplane
00:42:50.400 you're
00:42:51.500 a bit
00:42:51.720 thirsty
00:42:52.120 and
00:42:52.520 the
00:42:52.660 beverage
00:42:53.000 cart
00:42:53.300 is
00:42:53.520 making
00:42:53.780 its
00:42:53.980 way
00:42:54.180 down
00:42:54.440 the
00:42:54.600 aisle
00:42:54.800 to
00:42:55.000 you
00:42:55.200 the
00:42:56.380 flight
00:42:56.640 attendant
00:42:56.980 asks
00:42:57.380 you
00:42:57.560 what
00:42:57.760 you'd
00:42:57.940 like
00:42:58.080 to
00:42:58.240 drink
00:42:58.540 you
00:42:59.220 see
00:42:59.400 the
00:42:59.540 choices
00:42:59.840 on
00:43:00.040 the
00:43:00.140 cart
00:43:00.400 apple
00:43:01.260 juice
00:43:01.660 orange
00:43:02.460 juice
00:43:02.900 soda
00:43:03.740 water
00:43:04.500 you
00:43:05.760 ponder
00:43:06.060 things
00:43:06.360 for
00:43:06.540 a
00:43:06.680 moment
00:43:06.960 make
00:43:07.700 up
00:43:11.760 a
00:43:11.920 few
00:43:12.100 satisfying
00:43:12.680 sips
00:43:13.080 you
00:43:13.400 go
00:43:13.580 for
00:43:13.740 another
00:43:14.020 and
00:43:14.600 suddenly
00:43:14.880 experience
00:43:15.500 a
00:43:15.720 muscle
00:43:15.920 spasm
00:43:16.320 in
00:43:16.480 your
00:43:16.620 arm
00:43:16.900 the
00:43:17.880 movement
00:43:18.240 causes
00:43:18.620 some
00:43:18.880 juice
00:43:19.140 to
00:43:19.340 spill
00:43:19.560 on
00:43:19.740 your
00:43:19.860 neighbor's
00:43:20.280 pant leg
00:43:20.800 okay
00:43:22.940 let's
00:43:23.640 isolate
00:43:24.140 two
00:43:24.480 separate
00:43:24.900 actions
00:43:25.300 to
00:43:25.640 consider
00:43:25.980 in
00:43:26.180 this
00:43:26.320 scenario
00:43:26.740 one
00:43:28.140 action
00:43:28.500 is
00:43:28.880 the
00:43:29.000 choice
00:43:29.260 of
00:43:29.400 the
00:43:29.500 orange
00:43:29.740 juice
00:43:30.120 and
00:43:30.720 the
00:43:30.860 other
00:43:31.140 is
00:43:31.500 the
00:43:31.620 arm
00:43:31.820 twitch
00:43:32.140 of
00:43:32.380 the
00:43:32.460 unfortunate
00:43:32.840 spills
00:43:33.300 if
00:43:39.260 you'd
00:43:39.380 like
00:43:39.500 to
00:43:39.640 continue
00:43:39.940 listening
00:43:40.240 to
00:43:40.380 this
00:43:40.540 conversation
00:43:41.080 you'll
00:43:41.760 need
00:43:41.940 to
00:43:42.060 subscribe
00:43:42.540 at
00:43:42.760 samharris.org
00:43:43.680 once you
00:43:44.720 do
00:43:44.900 you'll
00:43:45.100 get
00:43:45.200 access
00:43:45.480 to
00:43:45.680 all
00:43:45.880 full
00:43:46.160 length
00:43:46.380 episodes
00:43:46.780 of
00:43:46.920 the
00:43:47.020 making
00:43:47.180 sense
00:43:47.420 podcast
00:43:47.780 along
00:43:48.640 with
00:43:48.800 other
00:43:48.980 subscriber
00:43:49.500 only
00:43:49.760 content
00:43:50.200 including
00:43:51.080 bonus
00:43:51.460 episodes
00:43:52.080 and
00:43:52.540 AMAs
00:43:53.140 and the
00:43:53.680 conversations
00:43:54.160 I've been
00:43:54.500 having
00:43:54.740 on the
00:43:54.980 waking
00:43:55.160 up
00:43:55.360 app
00:43:55.640 the
00:43:56.380 making
00:43:56.600 sense
00:43:56.820 podcast
00:43:57.200 is
00:43:57.540 ad
00:43:57.780 free
00:43:58.100 and
00:43:58.680 relies
00:43:58.980 entirely
00:43:59.460 on
00:43:59.700 listener
00:43:59.940 support
00:44:00.360 and
00:44:01.120 you
00:44:01.220 can
00:44:01.340 subscribe
00:44:01.680 now
00:44:02.140 at
00:44:02.620 samharris.org
00:44:11.760 whatever
00:44:16.860 you