Mark Slapinski

00:00:00.160 something really weird just happened the cbc actually admitted that mark carney and doug

00:00:04.880 ford were wrong and polyev he was right all along well there was a whole lot of finger

00:00:10.320 pointing today over the anti-tariff ad that has ground canada u.s trade negotiations to a halt

00:00:15.520 while u.s president donald trump is blaming the ad for ending those talks conservative

00:00:19.920 leader pierre polyev is blaming who else prime minister mark carney the reality is that premiers

00:00:25.840 are stepping up to fill the void left behind by mark carney's broken promise he said he would

00:00:31.920 negotiate a win he said he would have a deal by july 21st still no deal now he mark carney is

00:00:38.880 looking for someone to blame for his broken promises and he's blaming an ad that he approved

00:00:46.880 meanwhile some premiers say they think this is all just donald trump being donald trump in terms of

00:00:54.000 the ups and downs of what we've been living through this year i would say this is pretty

00:00:57.760 par for the course of what we've come to expect from the president and we need to keep pushing

00:01:04.880 i can tell you one thing if it wasn't this he'd pick something else that he wasn't happy with and

00:01:10.000 you know negotiations been going on month after month after month

00:01:13.920 uh this need to we need to sit down and start focusing on it in my opinion uh i take a no deal

00:01:20.640 instead of a bad deal so all of this and in exactly one week the carney government will deliver its

00:01:28.080 first budget so how will all of this uncertainty shape canada's financial future well the power

00:01:32.320 panel luckily is here to talk about all of that michelle cadario was deputy chief of staff to former

00:01:36.400 prime minister paul martin lisa rate is a former conservative cabinet minister cheryl oates was

00:01:41.840 director of communications for former alberta ndp premier rachel notley and shachi curl is the

00:01:47.040 president of the angus reid institute good to see you all michelle having worked for former finance

00:01:53.360 minister and prime minister paul martin have you ever had to do a budget under these kinds of

00:01:57.840 circumstances i mean when you look at the economic headwinds hitting canada i mean how do you even

00:02:03.200 begin to plot a fiscal path forward well actually we did it was a different set of circumstances but

00:02:10.240 you know in the 90s when we were saddled with a huge deficit and growing debt and we had the bond

00:02:16.800 markets kind of at our at our heels um wanting to essentially declare us bankrupt as a country

00:02:23.040 there was enormous pressure on the on the uh on the government at the time and uh you know i think

00:02:28.320 that uh mr kretchen and mr martin when they came in uh they hardly came in on a deficit fighting kind

00:02:33.760 of agenda or what they want that wasn't necessarily what they wanted to do but it's what they had to do

00:02:39.200 and uh you know good governments make uh difficult decisions in tough times and so you know i think that uh

00:02:46.400 you know the prime minister carney is setting himself up to uh make some big bold decisions if

00:02:51.200 what we're hearing is uh uh is correct and uh he's been talking about you know a generational spend and

00:02:58.400 you know in these wins that we're facing and such uncertainty on our trading relationships

00:03:03.360 um that uh i think that he's trying to bet on on canada and uh it's a long-term bet it's not going to

00:03:09.520 change overnight and i think that he's hoping that canadians are going to stick with him

00:03:14.320 uh as he goes through it so but he's got some communicating to do that's all what i would say

00:03:18.560 well that that may be that's a recurring theme in a lot of the conversations in this town

00:03:23.200 uh lisa i'm wondering what you make of what we're seeing in terms of the blame game like um

00:03:27.520 i don't know if mark carney had to approve doug ford's ad i know he saw it in the meeting with

00:03:31.520 with premier ford is what senior ontario people are are telling us didn't object to it but neither did

00:03:37.200 donald trump first of all i mean this political finger pointing in the face of it i mean donald trump is

00:03:42.480 ultimately the actor here what do you make of the dynamic that we're seeing well donald trump may

00:03:48.480 be the actor here but the victim is canadian business and i'm not appreciative of all the

00:03:55.200 noise around who did what when the reality of the situation as i see it david is that

00:04:01.600 real live decisions are being made by real businesses in this country about whether or

00:04:07.040 not they are going to move their operation to some state in the united states family offices

00:04:12.960 are looking at it small and medium-sized businesses are because the signal they're not getting

00:04:17.760 from federal and provincial government is that they actually have an idea of how to proceed

00:04:22.080 through this dilemma in a in a careful way that's going to end up being okay at the end there's so

00:04:27.360 much uncertainty right now in the business sector especially in small and medium-sized businesses

00:04:33.120 i don't think i've ever seen anything like this before it is really jarring to hear

00:04:38.080 ordinary canadian business people say i think i really got to think about closing up shop here and

00:04:43.280 and moving to the states because i don't know where this is all going to end yeah and cheryl like 0.89

00:04:48.320 michelle's right the size of the challenge they faced in the 90s but it was a known set of facts

00:04:53.280 right a debt the gdp burden and a debt that you had to attack and trade with the us was about to lift

00:04:59.360 off uh we don't know where trade with the us is going and and i wonder to lisa's point do you think

00:05:04.800 what what we're seeing politically is is is a good thing for for the economic health of the country

00:05:09.520 if people have to make these decisions well i don't think it's a good strategy to get us to our

00:05:15.120 end goal which ultimately is a good deal for canadians and a good deal for canadian businesses

00:05:20.160 as you said right now a whole bunch of finger pointing and and whose fault was it that donald

00:05:26.080 trump did this and whose fault was it on this day that donald trump did that and what we need is a

00:05:30.320 strategic reset away from the grandstanding loop everybody right now whether you're a union leader

00:05:36.080 a trade association a premier the prime minister everybody wants to take their political points

00:05:41.440 from who stood up to donald trump best and who made the most progress and who stood up for their

00:05:45.760 members or their constituents and that has cost us in this case our negotiating position and so rather

00:05:51.840 than talk about whose fault it was in any given scenario it's time for us to stop to start talking

00:05:56.320 about how we move forward and what we're going to do differently and in some cases that might be a

00:06:00.960 little bit more information sharing like it could be the case that if the prime minister were to read

00:06:05.440 some of the premiers in a little bit they might be less inclined to take matters into their own hands

00:06:10.160 but we do need a little bit of a look at what's not worked so far and what we can do better if we're

00:06:14.560 working towards a strategic goal goal and not just political points so actually it does remember

00:06:19.680 remind me of sort of the dynamic we saw at the beginning of the year when justin trudeau was still

00:06:24.160 prime minister and kind of there's a scattershot approach of different premiers doing different

00:06:28.720 things and you know in the run-up to an election you're going to see a lot of politics but

00:06:32.480 it wasn't coordinated right it was five fingers instead of a fist and i wonder if that's where

00:06:38.080 we're maybe headed back well i think there's a couple of things that we're being asked to react to

00:06:45.680 without having the full picture of first of all where americans are how many americans actually

00:06:50.880 watched that ad did it change any minds did it did it uh you know rile up enough american viewers

00:06:59.200 to say look i'm gonna i'm gonna call my local politician i'm gonna call my congressman or my

00:07:03.680 state official and and and uh you know really pressure them we don't know that we're in the

00:07:08.640 process of finding that out but we don't know that yet as to you know what's happened with with the 10

00:07:16.400 look i am not somebody who's going to leap to the defense of doug ford when you look up an antonym for

00:07:23.360 you know as lisa pointed out sort of careful progress or careful thoughtful process you know doug

00:07:28.320 ford is not the poster child for that did you hear that a cbc panelist admitted on live television

00:07:34.800 that doug ford is not a long-term thinker and he made a huge mistake by getting involved with this

00:07:39.840 whole trade war situation running that ad was a big mistake and they're gently pointing at that

00:07:46.560 now i want to point out that lady she didn't use those exact words however that's what she meant to 0.88

00:07:51.680 say now by pointing this out they're basically admitting that pauliev was right and of course he was

00:07:55.840 right he's rightfully calling out both ford and carney for this whole trade war mess before we go

00:08:01.760 any further i noticed my videos aren't getting as much traction as they normally do if you see this

00:08:05.920 part don't forget to like make sure you're still subscribed and let me know if you saw this part in

00:08:10.720 the comment section i'm doing a test thank you now let's watch the cbc give both ford and carney

00:08:16.720 some much deserved love taps don't forget to stick around all the way until the end for some more

00:08:21.440 analysis we know that about him but we also know that he plays a role uh whether it's in ontario or

00:08:30.240 whether it's even at the national level of being sort of the elbow in the elbows up and at this stage

00:08:37.040 if you talk about the politics of it that is not going to hurt him because as much as we know that

00:08:43.360 certain sectors are really really hurting and let me be clear one household affected by this situation is

00:08:49.120 one household too many but when we ask canadians you know have you suffered job loss have you

00:08:54.480 suffered reduced work hours are you worried about that the vast majority at this stage of people in

00:09:01.600 this country say the answer is no where you see the highest level is only is in ontario and at that

00:09:07.040 level it's it's about five percent that's not nothing that means a tremendous amount to those families

00:09:12.320 who are losing work or out of work as a result of what's happening but it's not so many that people

00:09:18.800 have shifted from that elbows up mindset mentality and beyond that uh you know i think they are they

00:09:26.800 are at a point where um they the antipathy towards donald trump the hostility in canada among the canadian

00:09:33.920 rank and fell towards donald trump is such that they're not likely to blame canadian politicians for this

00:09:40.080 they're much more likely to blame trump for this yeah well yes because he started it

00:09:48.080 oh okay all right well shachi has has lost the ability uh to hear me uh uh control i'm just

00:09:52.640 letting you know that um all right michelle i i mean you know shachi makes a good point that people

00:09:57.600 uh broadly are not feeling it as acutely as some of the key sectors probably because of the

00:10:02.480 the the preservation of the kuzma exemption right which which allows uh a lot of trade to keep going

00:10:08.160 but you know you talk to people and the future order books are getting a lot worse right and now

00:10:12.960 you're seeing the anxiety and the frustration there so michelle if you're the prime minister

00:10:16.480 and we've heard people talking about information sharing what do you think the next move needs to

00:10:20.480 be when mark herney gets back from asia well you know i i gotta say that i think that the end of uh

00:10:26.560 shachi's sentence was yet um and uh you know that's what really worries me um and i think that uh you

00:10:33.680 know the government is kind of trying to not take for granted that where we are today but trying to

00:10:39.680 look to where we might be tomorrow and you know kuzma i think we should all recognize is probably

00:10:44.720 very much in jeopardy and that's not something that we can kind of count on to be renegotiated

00:10:50.080 and certainly not at the at the current kind of level of uh enjoyment that we have right now

00:10:55.040 so you know i think that this budget is going to um you know it's a defining feature for mark carney

00:11:00.560 as a politician as a as a prime minister there are such high expectations on it from so many

00:11:07.280 different sectors um and uh and you know i think that the pressure to actually get it passed which

00:11:14.720 you know i'm not sure there's a 100 guarantee of that they've worked through um but also to meet the

00:11:20.880 demand that he's kind of set out there is going to be enormous and so um i hope that they've dug in

00:11:27.280 and done their homework and are ready to really go out and sell this budget because if canadians

00:11:31.840 accept the budget and canadians accept the path then i think that it will pass in the house without

00:11:36.640 a problem yeah we're going to talk to don davies uh the interim leader of the ndp about this because

00:11:41.440 they're getting some pressure from a lot of groups on what to do but you know lisa i think we got a

00:11:46.640 sense like not a lot of granular specifics but in the speech the prime minister gave last week

00:11:51.760 um sort of explaining the size of the challenge i mean it's something you've heard before i've heard

00:11:55.920 before but he's trying to bundle it together i guess before he went to asia about this is the

00:12:00.480 size of the challenge so this is why we're going to have a massive eye-popping deficit is sort of what

00:12:05.760 what i took away from it um do you think the country is ready for that uh kind of the need to go deeper

00:12:12.720 and deeper into the red though not at a covet level but not far off yeah what i hope the country is ready

00:12:20.000 for is to understand exactly the gravity of the situation is vis-a-vis our trading partner to the

00:12:25.600 south the united states of america and what it means for domestic policies here and it's not just

00:12:30.720 focused on the deficit it's not about a spend budget what mr carney is hearing from the asian

00:12:36.800 investors that he's meeting with overseas is that it's not a problem with money there is money in this

00:12:42.240 world to invest in canada the problem with canada is that we have too much regulatory red tape and

00:12:48.560 uncertainty with respect to whether or not projects get built in this country that they don't want to

00:12:55.120 put any money into even developing a project because they're just flushing a billion dollars

00:12:59.760 down the toilet that is something the government can actually do at very little cost and that's

00:13:05.760 what i'm going to be looking for well cheryl that it does seem like this will be a whole new chapter

00:13:10.160 uh for the early days of the prime minister and his government because you know as shachi points out i

00:13:15.520 don't know if canadians are going to blame him for things that trump does because i think the

00:13:18.320 world realizes trump is an maybe an unsolvable problem right but the things he can control

00:13:24.160 which is the other part of his pitch to canadians we'll start to see the plan for that on november

00:13:28.880 4th in the budget and that's where we start to see the domestic agenda at scale potentially

00:13:35.840 yeah i think it presents a really big challenge and a really big opportunity the challenge of course

00:13:41.840 that is that there is so much unknown and when we talk about economic impact and what our bottom

00:13:46.560 line should brace for and what the our ongoing negotiation means with the united states you've

00:13:51.520 seen this in provincial budgets across the country that everybody is trying to anticipate this

00:13:55.760 differently you can try to bake in numbers you can try to put in padding but truthfully this is all

00:14:01.280 unknown and it would be unknown even if we thought we were moving towards reaching a deal the big

00:14:06.320 opportunity is of course faced with this kind of unprecedented moment in our in our relationship the

00:14:12.720 united states mark carney has political cover to do giant things to steer the ship in a whole

00:14:19.120 different direction in a way that you typically don't even if you are a government with a new

00:14:23.920 mandate not i mean not that he's not but he is a continued liberal government uh he has this

00:14:29.440 political cover to change big things to make big spends to do things that this government hasn't done

00:14:33.920 before and not to say that the government the public will blindly accept that but they might be more

00:14:38.880 willing to consider it given the situation that canada is currently in shachi is that what you're

00:14:43.520 seeing as you do your work that he does have political cover to use cheryl's phrase uh to do

00:14:48.400 giant things do you think that's where the public sentiment is right now well certainly on on lisa's

00:14:53.440 points around building big things on doing resource development it's it's unprecedented levels of

00:14:59.280 support uh when you go back relative to the last 10 15 years we're seeing people who in the past would

00:15:05.920 have been very reticent resistant unsure of whether that's a direction in which canada should be going

00:15:13.200 who are now saying just get it done already in some ways that the hardest and the easiest thing

00:15:18.480 for mark carney to do will be to actually dare the conservative caucus to say hey i've put together

00:15:25.280 all of these things i'm going to say yes on these projects uh and and i dare you to vote against me

00:15:31.600 uh from a parliamentary perspective you know he's he will have the votes but from a po a political

00:15:37.040 perspective and the gamesmanship perspective uh i think that is a harder conversation and and

00:15:42.720 particularly vis-a-vis quebec and the bq where we still see the highest levels of resistance to some

00:15:49.280 of these major project ideas but even they're approaching 50 percent of people in the province

00:15:55.120 saying yeah like get it done it's interesting though michelle as you navigate these things i mean

00:16:00.480 you know the bloc and the conservatives obviously have to stake out hard positions on this but

00:16:04.960 you know melissa lance was here last week repeating the leaders demand that the deficit 0.99

00:16:08.320 needs to be down to about 40 billion dollars for them to support uh this budget and to be happy with

00:16:14.000 this budget there's no path to that with the needs and with the plans and with the economic

00:16:18.960 certainty unless you shut down whole chunks of the government well and you know there is the

00:16:24.880 whole kind of of splitting up the budget of the capital versus operating and so you know is

00:16:29.360 there some wiggle room in there because you know the operating budget and they and the path that

00:16:34.400 they want to set out upon to actually balance that within three years uh you know it's kind

00:16:39.360 of like your mortgage and your credit card you uh you want to pay off your credit card so you're not

00:16:43.200 paying ridiculous fees but you can invest in an asset into your in a mortgage um and that's the

00:16:49.680 long-term capital budget that the uh that the prime minister is going to set out so i wonder if

00:16:54.160 there's some room in there um you know i uh i don't think that canadians and you know shots you

00:17:00.480 would probably know this better but i don't think canadians would take it well if we're hurled back

00:17:04.160 into an election campaign that is not on the calendar for for most people nor do i think that

00:17:09.360 they would believe that that is going to have a satisfactory or different result yeah i i wouldn't

00:17:13.840 take it well i'm still not recovered from the last one uh but but you know lisa on the budget the

00:17:18.720 deficit the size of it you know the capital operating split however you want to go with that i talked to

00:17:23.120 francis donald last week who always has a lot of smart things to say on this she says a lot of the

00:17:27.360 people are going to be looking at it it's not so much the size of the deficit is what are you buying

00:17:30.800 with that debt are you buying productivity are you buying the economic transformation i know you talked

00:17:36.480 about regulatory burden and they seem to be alive to that what do you think you need to see in the

00:17:41.760 spending a week from today they let you know they're actually buying a productivity boost so what the

00:17:48.160 rating agencies are going to be looking for picking up on what francis donald said is they're going to be

00:17:52.080 making sure that the government has a plan to not have these continuous large deficits that

00:17:57.680 as she said these kinds of investments are going to actually give you revenues that are going to be

00:18:02.400 able to in the future allow you to pay down the debt and hopefully get to a deficit position but i

00:18:08.240 always start with the very fact that i don't accept the fact that the current government budget as it

00:18:15.120 stands right now is all good money that is all good spend i think there's an opportunity to take

00:18:22.240 a look internally and see exactly what are we spending it on and instead of thinking about how

00:18:27.120 much more we're piling on to it let's think about what is it in this deficit right now that we truly

00:18:33.760 don't need i mean we want to be we want it we may want it sorry but do we actually need it because

00:18:40.640 we are we're entering into a world where scarcity is real and we're going to be able to make sure

00:18:46.320 that we're putting our money in places that make sense for the future i heard a speech yesterday by

00:18:51.440 my outgoing ceo victor dodig and he said if you think that the last 10 years was a lost decade if

00:18:57.760 we continue and have another 10 years of loss of opportunity then we're actually undermining an

00:19:04.000 entire generation and that's what's at stake yeah and cheryl like there is there is the process 0.99

00:19:11.280 underway for some sort of budget rationalization but whether it's at the size and scale that will

00:19:15.520 satisfy you know bond reasons i don't know uh but with all of the challenges and with the spend and

00:19:21.680 with the need to do some sort of rationalization it's got to be packaged with this narrative of

00:19:27.200 it will all be worth it in the end and here's why right and and that's that's a hard thing to see

00:19:32.880 right now with the industries uh key industries under assault yeah and i mean this this budget has

00:19:39.760 so many promises we've promised austerity we've promised growth we've promised diversification

00:19:45.280 we've promised we've been promised efficiencies um the government has a lot to live up to and when it

00:19:51.280 comes to efficiencies like i've been a part of a government that is trying to find efficiencies

00:19:55.840 much easier said than done when you ask ministers to go scrape through their ministries and find

00:20:00.560 things that they don't need to be spending money on there's it is hard to come up with substantial

00:20:05.600 meaningful amounts of money that you are willing to take out of your budget that you're willing to

00:20:09.360 sacrifice and so that is a difficult exercise and then i think when it comes to demonstrating

00:20:14.400 that the spend or the deficit is worth it yeah again a really big task to take on how do you

00:20:20.160 demonstrate to canadians that under threat from what was our closest trading partner that we're

00:20:25.040 doing what it takes for canada to eventually become more resilient or more more economically

00:20:30.560 secure and how do you tell them how that will impact their lives today if the budget is passed that

00:20:36.240 is a really tall order and it's it's what it will take to get other parties to support it but you know

00:20:40.640 shachi on that on the the reduction side of things i remember in the mid 2000s when i was still a

00:20:46.480 provincial political reporter back in st john's they were going through a cost-cutting exercise

00:20:51.280 in the first danny williams budget when they had won and you're sitting around a cabinet table

00:20:55.440 talking about and you really feel at a provincial level cutting programs that give low-income seniors

00:21:00.080 eyeglasses you know that's the kind of choices you have to make and i wonder with the trump effect

00:21:05.200 and with all of the economic uncertainty whether there's a political climate where you can make those

00:21:09.760 kind of cuts in in a federal budget if if you start having people losing out as a result of it

00:21:17.680 it's an interesting question i think the rear view lens on this uh gives uh this government a little

00:21:23.600 bit of cover in that it's not so many years ago that we went through the pandemic where money rightly

00:21:31.120 slow uh flowed quickly in great quantity and freely out the door in order to help backstop people who

00:21:38.400 were being plunged into crisis uh at the household level with job loss and an economy that was

00:21:43.760 basically you know stopped all stopped all at once but looking back then a lot of folks realizing you

00:21:50.560 know i what was it the the the covid checks that were going to kids living in their parents basements

00:21:55.600 and that kind of thing and and so people will have some recollection of ways that money when it needs

00:22:02.720 to be spent quickly is perhaps not always spent best and i think that that's something that they can

00:22:07.440 sort of refer back on uh and beyond that crisis has a way of bringing people together and being in a

00:22:16.320 more uh amenable mood to follow a crisis leader so if the prime minister if the finance minister can

00:22:23.360 turn this into their hell or high water moment and say look we're going to do this you need to come

00:22:29.600 with us because everything is at stake i do think you will find a significant around amount of goodwill

00:22:35.680 around that the politics are always going to be the politics around the edges yeah but but the

00:22:39.920 responsibility is to number one leverage that moment but number two not screw it up by doing the 0.97

00:22:46.880 unnecessary or the stupid spending now it really seems like cbc is playing this weird game and let 0.85

00:22:51.280 me explain on one hand they're trying to criticize polyev as much as they can and they're doing it rather 0.97

00:22:57.200 unfairly on the other hand they're gently admitting gently alluding to the fact that polyev was right all

00:23:04.880 along and canadians made a huge mistake by electing carney that's what i'm getting and what i think is 0.68

00:23:10.400 happening is that these clowns they know that carney's days are numbered it's only a matter of 0.74

00:23:15.120 time before polyev gets into office so on one hand they want to slow that process down but on the other 0.91

00:23:20.960 hand they want to make sure that polyev doesn't go too hard on them however once polyev does get into

00:23:26.720 office he should go hard on them and punish them he should immediately end all the media bailouts do that on

00:23:32.880 day one defund the cbc abolish the cbc and then use all their abandoned buildings to help the homeless

00:23:40.880 it's brilliant and then he should go a step further he should file big strong powerful lawsuits against

00:23:47.120 the media companies that are still around and hold them accountable for defamation these media

00:23:52.480 companies have been defaming conservatives for years and they need to be held accountable and then

00:23:57.920 he can take the money he gets from those successful defamation lawsuits and use it to offset the

00:24:03.600 deficit do you think that's a good idea let me know either way polyev will be in office soon enough

00:24:09.440 if it's not before christmas it'll be shortly after have a great night talk to you tomorrow patriots

CBC Admits Poilievre Was Right, Carney Was Wrong

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