Enbridge CEO SLAMS Carney On Live TV
Episode Stats
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Summary
Enbridge CEO Greg Ebel tells us what it would take to get a new pipeline built in Canada, and why it would be a good fit for the West Coast of Canada. He also explains why he thinks a West Coast pipeline should be built.
Transcript
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First CBC turned on him, then CTV turned on him,
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then his own budget officer turned on him on live television.
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and stick around to the end for some commentary.
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So what will it take to get a new pipeline built in Canada?
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$14 million of public money to act as a proponent.
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But her government is only going to get it to the starting gate.
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And said on this program last night that she doesn't want
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to foot the bill for the full build of a bitumen pipeline
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Smith is confident a private company will pick up the ball from there.
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One of the companies that will be advising the Alberta government
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along the process is Enbridge, Canada's largest pipeline company.
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Would Enbridge be willing to take over that project?
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I asked CEO Greg Ebel in our broadcast exclusive interview.
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Mr. Ebel, thanks for joining us and welcome to PowerPlay.
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I wanted to start with the announcement from the Alberta government yesterday.
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Your company is part of this advisory group with two others.
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So I wanted to know what exactly will be Enbridge's role here?
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One thing I guess I would say is we're in 43 states, all the provinces, five countries.
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So we advise a lot of governments on a lot of things.
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So pleased that the premier has asked us and others in the industry to give her counsel
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on if the situation is available to actually build a coast pipeline to the west coast.
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Obviously, as the largest energy infrastructure player in North America, we've got a lot of experience.
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Like the others who are part of this, we've got a lot of experience in British Columbia.
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So TMX, obviously owned by the federal government and SOBO, there's experience there to be had.
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And so governments consult, I appreciate that, and we'll provide them the best advice possible
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in our intellectual capital, if you will, at this point in time to put her in the best position
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So in that role, will your people be paid by the Alberta government to provide that kind of expertise and advice?
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That's, you know, it's advice, and we'll get some cost recovery on that front.
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It's human capital, if you will, or intellectual capital.
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Your company also joined others in the oil and gas industry in calling for an end to the
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West Coast tanker ban and an end to the federal emissions cap.
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Those are things that you've outlined and been very clear about in the past, also today at the Empire Club.
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If those two issues and the others that you've raised and the others in the industry have raised are addressed,
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what guarantee does the federal government have that your company would invest money to build a pipeline in Canada?
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Well, I think the first thing they can point to is we've already proposed this
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and tried to build a national building, a nation-building pipeline in the past, right?
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We had a project that was to the West Coast that had the support of many indigenous nations,
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had the approval of the Canadian Energy Regulator, and the support of our customers.
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So if the tanker ban is removed, if we get to the right spot on carbon levies and emission taxes,
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and our customers therefore have the ability to produce a product that is produced amazingly
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relative to other parts of the world, then I think that opportunity is there.
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But again, one only has to look to the past of this industry and Enbridge and others
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I'd also point out that we are spending some 30x billion dollars across North America,
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five or six of that in British Columbia on pipelines today.
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So, you know, we are a company that invests and grows with our customers,
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and we operate in jurisdictions that welcome us.
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And those pipelines in British Columbia today are bringing natural gas to the lower mainland
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and to LNG facilities, which, as you know, governments have been very supportive at this point in time.
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It took us a long time to get there, and which are absolutely critical to moving the country forward.
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I guess I'm just trying to sort of get it more sort of simply.
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If they go ahead and answer all of the, I don't want to call them demands,
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but sort of respond to your requests that you put out so succinctly in those two separate letters,
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does that mean that Enbridge will be the proponent of a pipeline to the West Coast?
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Well, I don't think you can be that definitive.
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But what it does mean is that Enbridge would entertain the possibility of a proponent.
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Today, I can't even do that because, obviously, you're not going to build a pipeline to nowhere.
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So if the tanker bans there, why would you build a pipeline to the West Coast?
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So I think it gives us the opportunity to be a proponent, which is why today all we are is an advisor.
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Yeah, and I guess I'm asking because you're saying an opportunity to be a proponent.
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But, you know, the federal government is likely looking at this and saying,
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OK, well, what guarantees do we have on our side that if we make our move, that Enbridge will make their move?
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Well, again, I think if you look at the past, if you use the word Enbridge,
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you're talking about someone that has already proposed this in the past.
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If you talk about TMX being involved, as we know, as painful as it was, that was built.
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And there are others that have built in that regard.
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And all of these customers have, with the right circumstances, supported pipelines.
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So I don't think you have to look too far to see concrete, real examples of Enbridge and other pipelines
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being willing to be the proponent of a pipeline if the conditions are set.
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Capital will go to where the conditions are set.
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And today, the conditions are not set for that pipeline to exist in Canada.
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And it seems to me, and I think most Canadians, if you look at opinion polling,
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I think we're talking about 88% of people recognize and believe that the oil and gas industry is critical to Canada.
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And about 75% are supportive of building oil pipelines.
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And think we can do that at the same time as finding ways to do it less intensively from a carbon perspective.
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So not only are there possibilities to be proponents out there,
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but very importantly, Canadians are looking for the leadership to actually carry that out.
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Some of the things that you're talking about and what you need removed,
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from your perspective, does it matter if it's a blanket removal of all of these regulations,
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i.e. the tanker ban, the emissions cap, and industrial carbon levy,
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versus a case-by-case exemption that are issued by the major projects office?
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Do you think, do you have a preference one over the other, I guess, is my question.
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Look, I think that having bespoke regulation is not a great way to formulate capital and bring it together.
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There may be a particular project one wants to pursue and the government may want to pursue.
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But I think what you would be better off doing is creating the conditions across the entire country
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that will allow capital to come and these projects to be pursued.
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The Public Policy Forum put out a report recently where there are some $600 billion of projects
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that are looking for an opportunity to be built.
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And that if those are built, they could add $1.1 trillion to Canada's GDP by 2035.
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So I don't think you just want to pick and choose.
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I think you want to put in place the conditions for private capital to form,
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for companies like Enbridge and others and producers to actually produce.
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And the rest will look after itself, quite frankly.
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And I think you see that in a lot of other places.
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Remember, 10 years ago, there were no LNG projects on the Gulf Coast of the United States.
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And, in fact, you couldn't even export from the United States.
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There's another 8 being built and another 10 yet that have been approved.
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So that was all about policy by successive governments, not picking individual projects,
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but actually creating the conditions for the capital to be formed,
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for the customers to support them, and companies like ourselves to be able to build those projects.
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There are plenty of examples of this working, and Canada is amongst the best to make it work.
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But even if the industry does get what it wants here from the federal government
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on the regulatory and legislative front, there remains opposition amongst indigenous communities.
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Now, the Coastal First Nations, for example, states it explicitly.
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They do not support a pipeline and oil tanker project in their coastal waters.
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Look, I think one has to consult up front, and I think the premier, I mean, you'd have to,
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you saw her conference yesterday, is trying to do that.
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I think we have to recognize as Canadians, not everybody is going to be 100% on side with all these projects,
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I mean, some people will like them, some people won't.
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And we see this with indigenous participation, First Nations participation in our other projects.
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Sometimes we get nations that want to participate, sometimes we don't.
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Therein lies the essence of self-determination, I think.
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We're probably getting ahead of ourselves until the conditioned precedents are put in place,
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the five that I mentioned today at the Empire Club,
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and that over 100 CEOs across the energy spectrum have put in a letter very clearly,
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So, once those are met, and part of that is indigenous equity participation and participation in those projects,
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then you've created the conditions for things to proceed.
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No, I take your point on that, but we are at this point today,
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because the prime minister, Mark Carney, has promised to turn Canada into an energy superpower.
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I mean, we have supplies of, you pick it, from uranium to natural gas to oil to gold.
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The only thing that's stopping us is ourselves.
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There are 7 billion people on the planet that don't have the same access to energy that we do in North America.
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We have an obligation, a moral obligation, I think, to help them move to use the products that we have in this country.
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And let's not forget, we produce oil and gas, amongst other things, amongst the cleanest of any nations.
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So, if we don't do it, the only people that are going to be able to do it will be the Russians and the Iranians and others.
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That, frankly, I'm not sure Canadians would like to see those 7 billion people served by those players, as opposed to ourselves.
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We should take advantage of that and serve Canadians while also serving other parts of the world.
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So, do you think that Canada and the federal government's regulations that are in place are standing in the way of that?
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I mean, one only has to, whether it's Europe, you see permitting reforms that are going on there.
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You know, on election night, I believe, he said, build, baby, build.
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I love that enthusiasm from, I think he recognizes we have been uncompetitive for the last 10 years.
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He wouldn't have created a major projects office if he thought things were going swimmingly in terms of building infrastructure.
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And I support him in that and look forward to those changes actually coming to fruition.
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Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there.
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Greg Ebel, President and CEO of Enbridge, thanks so much for joining us.
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There's only one option for the future of Canada.
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Carney needs to get out and Polyev needs to get in.
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Like I've said before numerous times, I truly believe Carney will either resign or also be forced out in the next six months.
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I truly believe Canada can't survive another year of the Liberal government.
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And I also believe Polyev will be in office sooner rather than later.