Mark Slapinski

00:00:00.000 Mark Carney's having a real rough time lately.

00:00:02.680 First CBC turned on him, then CTV turned on him,

00:00:05.940 then his own budget officer turned on him on live television.

00:00:09.500 Now the CEO of Enbridge, an energy company,

00:00:12.340 is also telling him to get out of the way.

00:00:14.760 Let's take a look at that,

00:00:15.980 and stick around to the end for some commentary.

00:00:18.120 So what will it take to get a new pipeline built in Canada?

00:00:21.820 Alberta Premier Daniel Smith is ready to spend

00:00:24.140 $14 million of public money to act as a proponent.

00:00:28.380 But her government is only going to get it to the starting gate.

00:00:32.240 And said on this program last night that she doesn't want

00:00:35.200 to foot the bill for the full build of a bitumen pipeline

00:00:38.780 to BC's northern coast.

00:00:41.220 Smith is confident a private company will pick up the ball from there.

00:00:45.180 One of the companies that will be advising the Alberta government

00:00:48.000 along the process is Enbridge, Canada's largest pipeline company.

00:00:53.100 Would Enbridge be willing to take over that project?

00:00:56.200 I asked CEO Greg Ebel in our broadcast exclusive interview.

00:01:02.280 Mr. Ebel, thanks for joining us and welcome to PowerPlay.

00:01:06.000 Thanks, Mike. Great to be here.

00:01:07.660 I wanted to start with the announcement from the Alberta government yesterday.

00:01:10.960 Your company is part of this advisory group with two others.

00:01:14.120 So I wanted to know what exactly will be Enbridge's role here?

00:01:18.840 Yeah, for sure.

00:01:19.620 One thing I guess I would say is we're in 43 states, all the provinces, five countries.

00:01:25.920 So we advise a lot of governments on a lot of things.

00:01:29.140 So pleased that the premier has asked us and others in the industry to give her counsel

00:01:34.360 on if the situation is available to actually build a coast pipeline to the west coast.

00:01:41.180 What would that look like?

00:01:42.160 Obviously, as the largest energy infrastructure player in North America, we've got a lot of experience.

00:01:48.460 Like the others who are part of this, we've got a lot of experience in British Columbia.

00:01:53.920 So TMX, obviously owned by the federal government and SOBO, there's experience there to be had.

00:02:00.680 And so governments consult, I appreciate that, and we'll provide them the best advice possible

00:02:06.280 in our intellectual capital, if you will, at this point in time to put her in the best position

00:02:11.240 to be the proponent for the pipeline.

00:02:14.400 So in that role, will your people be paid by the Alberta government to provide that kind of expertise and advice?

00:02:21.520 Well, there'll be some cost recovery.

00:02:24.640 This is anything but a profit maker.

00:02:27.480 That's, you know, it's advice, and we'll get some cost recovery on that front.

00:02:32.600 But again, it's people.

00:02:34.780 It's not capital that we're putting to work.

00:02:37.480 It's human capital, if you will, or intellectual capital.

00:02:40.320 Your company also joined others in the oil and gas industry in calling for an end to the

00:02:45.160 West Coast tanker ban and an end to the federal emissions cap.

00:02:49.420 Those are things that you've outlined and been very clear about in the past, also today at the Empire Club.

00:02:54.760 If those two issues and the others that you've raised and the others in the industry have raised are addressed,

00:03:01.720 what guarantee does the federal government have that your company would invest money to build a pipeline in Canada?

00:03:09.740 Well, I think the first thing they can point to is we've already proposed this

00:03:14.220 and tried to build a national building, a nation-building pipeline in the past, right?

00:03:19.380 We had a project that was to the West Coast that had the support of many indigenous nations,

00:03:24.720 had the approval of the Canadian Energy Regulator, and the support of our customers.

00:03:29.460 So now you have pointed out a big if.

00:03:31.680 So if the tanker ban is removed, if we get to the right spot on carbon levies and emission taxes,

00:03:39.860 and our customers therefore have the ability to produce a product that is produced amazingly

00:03:45.240 relative to other parts of the world, then I think that opportunity is there.

00:03:48.960 But again, one only has to look to the past of this industry and Enbridge and others

00:03:54.300 that have proposed such pipelines in the past.

00:03:57.720 I'd also point out that we are spending some 30x billion dollars across North America,

00:04:05.200 five or six of that in British Columbia on pipelines today.

00:04:10.820 So, you know, we are a company that invests and grows with our customers,

00:04:15.580 and we operate in jurisdictions that welcome us.

00:04:18.580 And those pipelines in British Columbia today are bringing natural gas to the lower mainland

00:04:22.820 and to LNG facilities, which, as you know, governments have been very supportive at this point in time.

00:04:29.000 It took us a long time to get there, and which are absolutely critical to moving the country forward.

00:04:34.200 I guess I'm just trying to sort of get it more sort of simply.

00:04:37.500 If they go ahead and answer all of the, I don't want to call them demands,

00:04:42.420 but sort of respond to your requests that you put out so succinctly in those two separate letters,

00:04:48.060 does that mean that Enbridge will be the proponent of a pipeline to the West Coast?

00:04:55.320 Well, I don't think you can be that definitive.

00:04:57.720 There are several other players involved here.

00:04:59.880 But what it does mean is that Enbridge would entertain the possibility of a proponent.

00:05:06.400 Today, I can't even do that because, obviously, you're not going to build a pipeline to nowhere.

00:05:12.320 So if the tanker bans there, why would you build a pipeline to the West Coast?

00:05:16.660 So I think it gives us the opportunity to be a proponent, which is why today all we are is an advisor.

00:05:21.940 The proponent is the government of Alberta.

00:05:24.320 Yeah, and I guess I'm asking because you're saying an opportunity to be a proponent.

00:05:27.500 But, you know, the federal government is likely looking at this and saying,

00:05:30.860 OK, well, what guarantees do we have on our side that if we make our move, that Enbridge will make their move?

00:05:35.560 Well, again, I think if you look at the past, if you use the word Enbridge,

00:05:41.880 you're talking about someone that has already proposed this in the past.

00:05:45.160 If you talk about TMX being involved, as we know, as painful as it was, that was built.

00:05:51.240 And there are others that have built in that regard.

00:05:53.600 And all of these customers have, with the right circumstances, supported pipelines.

00:05:58.480 So I don't think you have to look too far to see concrete, real examples of Enbridge and other pipelines

00:06:06.000 being willing to be the proponent of a pipeline if the conditions are set.

00:06:11.280 Capital will go to where the conditions are set.

00:06:14.520 And today, the conditions are not set for that pipeline to exist in Canada.

00:06:19.340 It's existing in other parts of the world.

00:06:21.500 And it seems to me, and I think most Canadians, if you look at opinion polling,

00:06:25.740 I think we're talking about 88% of people recognize and believe that the oil and gas industry is critical to Canada.

00:06:32.680 And about 75% are supportive of building oil pipelines.

00:06:37.140 And think we can do that at the same time as finding ways to do it less intensively from a carbon perspective.

00:06:43.280 So not only are there possibilities to be proponents out there,

00:06:47.300 but very importantly, Canadians are looking for the leadership to actually carry that out.

00:06:53.020 Some of the things that you're talking about and what you need removed,

00:06:56.740 from your perspective, does it matter if it's a blanket removal of all of these regulations,

00:07:02.280 i.e. the tanker ban, the emissions cap, and industrial carbon levy,

00:07:05.860 versus a case-by-case exemption that are issued by the major projects office?

00:07:10.900 Do you think, do you have a preference one over the other, I guess, is my question.

00:07:14.040 Well, here's what I would say to that, Mike.

00:07:17.180 Look, I think that having bespoke regulation is not a great way to formulate capital and bring it together.

00:07:24.160 So, look, that may work on occasion.

00:07:26.500 There may be a particular project one wants to pursue and the government may want to pursue.

00:07:30.600 That's up to them.

00:07:31.760 But I think what you would be better off doing is creating the conditions across the entire country

00:07:37.200 that will allow capital to come and these projects to be pursued.

00:07:41.660 The Public Policy Forum put out a report recently where there are some $600 billion of projects

00:07:50.260 that are looking for an opportunity to be built.

00:07:53.380 And that if those are built, they could add $1.1 trillion to Canada's GDP by 2035.

00:07:59.760 So I don't think you just want to pick and choose.

00:08:01.780 I think you want to put in place the conditions for private capital to form,

00:08:06.120 for companies like Enbridge and others and producers to actually produce.

00:08:10.000 And the rest will look after itself, quite frankly.

00:08:13.300 And I think you see that in a lot of other places.

00:08:15.680 Remember, 10 years ago, there were no LNG projects on the Gulf Coast of the United States.

00:08:25.360 And, in fact, you couldn't even export from the United States.

00:08:27.920 Today, they have already built 10.

00:08:30.420 There's another 8 being built and another 10 yet that have been approved.

00:08:34.640 Meanwhile, we're just getting there now.

00:08:37.060 So that was all about policy by successive governments, not picking individual projects,

00:08:42.640 but actually creating the conditions for the capital to be formed,

00:08:46.560 for the customers to support them, and companies like ourselves to be able to build those projects.

00:08:51.320 There are plenty of examples of this working, and Canada is amongst the best to make it work.

00:08:57.120 But even if the industry does get what it wants here from the federal government

00:09:01.420 on the regulatory and legislative front, there remains opposition amongst indigenous communities.

00:09:06.300 Now, the Coastal First Nations, for example, states it explicitly.

00:09:09.780 They do not support a pipeline and oil tanker project in their coastal waters.

00:09:14.120 So how does industry address that opposition?

00:09:16.600 Look, I think one has to consult up front, and I think the premier, I mean, you'd have to,

00:09:24.380 you saw her conference yesterday, is trying to do that.

00:09:27.040 Obviously, we're at the very early stages.

00:09:30.100 I think we have to recognize as Canadians, not everybody is going to be 100% on side with all these projects,

00:09:36.820 regardless of what project is.

00:09:39.000 That's just not the way of any modern society.

00:09:42.480 I mean, some people will like them, some people won't.

00:09:44.520 And we see this with indigenous participation, First Nations participation in our other projects.

00:09:50.820 Sometimes we get nations that want to participate, sometimes we don't.

00:09:54.240 Therein lies the essence of self-determination, I think.

00:09:57.840 So, look, there's a long ways to go.

00:10:00.160 We're probably getting ahead of ourselves until the conditioned precedents are put in place,

00:10:04.180 the five that I mentioned today at the Empire Club,

00:10:07.260 and that over 100 CEOs across the energy spectrum have put in a letter very clearly,

00:10:13.400 as you point out, to the prime minister.

00:10:15.360 So, once those are met, and part of that is indigenous equity participation and participation in those projects,

00:10:22.880 then you've created the conditions for things to proceed.

00:10:25.520 We're not there yet, let's be honest.

00:10:27.700 No, I take your point on that, but we are at this point today,

00:10:31.060 because the prime minister, Mark Carney, has promised to turn Canada into an energy superpower.

00:10:35.680 From your vantage point, is that feasible?

00:10:38.740 Can Canada truly be an energy superpower?

00:10:42.360 Absolutely.

00:10:43.440 I mean, we have supplies of, you pick it, from uranium to natural gas to oil to gold.

00:10:50.280 I mean, we are, we have everything set up.

00:10:53.460 The only thing that's stopping us is ourselves.

00:10:55.920 I mean, we have the need.

00:10:57.700 There are 7 billion people on the planet that don't have the same access to energy that we do in North America.

00:11:04.240 We have an obligation, a moral obligation, I think, to help them move to use the products that we have in this country.

00:11:12.240 And let's not forget, we produce oil and gas, amongst other things, amongst the cleanest of any nations.

00:11:17.400 So, if we don't do it, the only people that are going to be able to do it will be the Russians and the Iranians and others.

00:11:23.720 That, frankly, I'm not sure Canadians would like to see those 7 billion people served by those players, as opposed to ourselves.

00:11:31.320 And even the United States as well, right?

00:11:33.780 This is a competitive world.

00:11:35.520 We have the products.

00:11:36.580 We know the demand is there.

00:11:38.220 We should take advantage of that and serve Canadians while also serving other parts of the world.

00:11:43.500 So, do you think that Canada and the federal government's regulations that are in place are standing in the way of that?

00:11:50.980 Absolutely.

00:11:52.100 Absolutely.

00:11:52.640 I don't think there's any doubt about it.

00:11:54.080 I mean, one only has to, whether it's Europe, you see permitting reforms that are going on there.

00:11:59.540 I think the Prime Minister recognizes that.

00:12:02.460 You know, on election night, I believe, he said, build, baby, build.

00:12:06.120 I think those words matter.

00:12:07.520 I love that enthusiasm from, I think he recognizes we have been uncompetitive for the last 10 years.

00:12:14.800 And he knows that changes have to be made.

00:12:17.120 He wouldn't have created a major projects office if he thought things were going swimmingly in terms of building infrastructure.

00:12:23.380 He knows things have to change.

00:12:25.240 And I support him in that and look forward to those changes actually coming to fruition.

00:12:30.040 Okay.

00:12:30.520 Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there.

00:12:31.960 Greg Ebel, President and CEO of Enbridge, thanks so much for joining us.

00:12:36.420 Thanks, Mike.

00:12:37.660 And Greg Ebel is 100% right.

00:12:39.800 There's only one option for the future of Canada.

00:12:42.560 Carney needs to get out and Polyev needs to get in.

00:12:45.620 Like I've said before numerous times, I truly believe Carney will either resign or also be forced out in the next six months.

00:12:53.040 I truly believe Canada can't survive another year of the Liberal government.

00:12:56.800 And I also believe Polyev will be in office sooner rather than later.

00:13:01.120 Talk to you tomorrow, patriots.

Enbridge CEO SLAMS Carney On Live TV

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