Mark Slapinski - October 03, 2025


🚨 I Could Be Going To Jail For Doing Journalism


Episode Stats

Length

17 minutes

Words per Minute

169.87744

Word Count

2,957

Sentence Count

182

Hate Speech Sentences

7


Summary

Bill C-9 expands the scope of hate crimes and expands the state's power to prosecute hate crimes. Conservative MP Andrew Lawton speaks in support of the bill, and why he's worried about the impact on freedom of speech.


Transcript

00:00:00.080 I have an announcement, and this is serious.
00:00:03.080 If the Liberal government has its way, I could be going to prison.
00:00:06.740 And it's not just me.
00:00:08.220 Other Conservatives that do what I do are also at risk.
00:00:11.740 I'm going to show you a clip of Andrew Lawton, an MP,
00:00:14.120 speaking about this issue in Parliament,
00:00:16.000 and then I'm going to explain at the end why I'm really worried.
00:00:19.040 Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.
00:00:21.580 It is a privilege to be able to speak to Bill C-9.
00:00:26.100 Although I have grave concerns with not the objective,
00:00:31.720 but the manner in which the Liberals have gone about trying to achieve that.
00:00:34.900 Let me, from the outset, say that I'm grateful the Liberals have finally recognized
00:00:38.400 that there is a wave of hate sweeping this country.
00:00:41.840 I'm glad they've realized what the Jewish community in this country,
00:00:45.420 among others, has been crying out for for years,
00:00:47.780 which is a government that will listen to these concerns
00:00:49.940 and understand the very real threats that are targeting them on a regular basis.
00:00:55.240 But just as the Liberals have done with Bill C-2,
00:00:57.760 just as they've done on the firearms file,
00:00:59.480 they take a legitimate issue and they offer a remedy
00:01:03.300 that attacks the rights of citizens and expands the state's power,
00:01:09.360 often without the checks and balances necessary.
00:01:11.980 Now, Bill C-9 does five things.
00:01:14.380 It repeals the requirement that the Attorney General
00:01:16.980 consents to proceedings for hate charges.
00:01:20.460 It creates an offense of willfully promoting hatred
00:01:22.880 against an identifiable group by displaying certain symbols in a public place.
00:01:27.280 It creates a hate crime offense for committing an offense
00:01:31.460 that is motivated by hate.
00:01:33.200 It creates an offense of intimidating a person
00:01:35.400 to impede them from accessing certain places
00:01:37.900 predominantly used for religious worship.
00:01:40.520 And it creates an offense of intentionally obstructing
00:01:43.620 or interfering with a person's lawful access to such places.
00:01:47.200 Now, of these five things, three of them are already covered by existing laws.
00:01:53.680 Creating an offense of willfully promoting hatred by displaying a symbol.
00:01:57.600 Section 319-2 of the Criminal Code already targets the willful promotion of hatred.
00:02:04.240 It targets incitement of hatred.
00:02:06.220 And the courts have been very broad in their interpretation
00:02:09.180 of how that communication must take place.
00:02:11.960 Symbols are a part of that.
00:02:13.940 And I could actually give an example from my own writing
00:02:16.860 where someone was charged just within the last two weeks
00:02:20.040 in central Elgin, Ontario with a hate charge under 319-2
00:02:25.020 after having mowed a swastika into their front lawn.
00:02:28.880 The display of a hate symbol led to a hate charge under the existing law.
00:02:35.240 Creating a hate offense is also redundant
00:02:37.940 because hate motivation is already an aggravating factor
00:02:40.700 under Section 718-2 of the Criminal Code.
00:02:44.840 And it has been consistently applied by the courts.
00:02:48.180 Creating offenses for intimidation and obstruction at places of worship
00:02:52.080 already criminalized under Section 423 of the Criminal Code,
00:02:57.040 Section 431 and 434.1
00:03:00.560 as well as under the laws pertaining to threats, 264.1.
00:03:04.840 And so what we are left with when we strip away these three things
00:03:10.560 which are already covered by existing laws are two things.
00:03:14.520 C9 really does two things.
00:03:17.080 Number one, it removes the requirement for the Attorney General to consent.
00:03:20.980 Now this has been viewed by activists and advocates
00:03:23.960 on the left and the right in this country
00:03:25.480 as a necessary safeguard against overzealous and political prosecutions
00:03:31.760 by law enforcement or by Crown attorneys
00:03:36.060 or by law enforcement that simply don't understand this
00:03:39.520 because it is a rarely applied provision of the law.
00:03:43.060 And the next part of it, and this is the most egregious part
00:03:46.280 and where I will spend the remainder of my time, Madam Speaker,
00:03:49.320 the government is codifying a new definition of hate.
00:03:54.560 A new definition of hate.
00:03:56.180 Now, Bill C-9 describes hatred as, quote,
00:03:58.680 the emotion that involves detestation or vilification
00:04:02.000 and that is stronger than disdain or dislike.
00:04:06.620 Now, the government has said this is adapted from the Keegstra Supreme Court decision,
00:04:11.500 a seminal free expression case in Canada,
00:04:14.100 but it actually changes something very key.
00:04:17.300 In Keegstra, the court held that hatred connotes emotion
00:04:19.920 of an intense and extreme nature
00:04:22.260 that is clearly associated with vilification and detestation.
00:04:25.980 This was expanded on in the Watcott decision,
00:04:28.800 which says hate is extreme manifestations of the emotion
00:04:32.840 described by the words detestation and vilification.
00:04:36.420 The word extreme does not appear in Bill C-9.
00:04:40.920 Now, the government is very proud of this bill.
00:04:43.320 The government has had all summer to work on it.
00:04:45.300 They have had, I don't know how many stakeholders,
00:04:47.600 staffers, bureaucrats, lawmakers and lawyers look over it
00:04:51.200 with every, I imagine, every clause with a fine-tooth comb.
00:04:55.980 Omitting a word, an operative word,
00:04:59.520 a very key word in a very key section of this bill is no accident.
00:05:03.980 The government is, to use a legal term,
00:05:05.880 willfully lowering the threshold on what constitutes hate
00:05:09.940 by extension expanding the state's power
00:05:12.360 and lowering the threshold of what can be regarded
00:05:15.200 as free expression in this country.
00:05:17.440 Now, why this is so important to me and to the Canadians
00:05:21.040 who have been speaking out about Bill C-9 to this point,
00:05:23.340 Madam Speaker, is because this government has been,
00:05:25.740 to its credit, very transparent
00:05:27.200 on where it wants to go on free expression.
00:05:30.980 In the last two parliaments,
00:05:32.480 the Liberal government has introduced sweeping censorship bills
00:05:35.200 that have been decried by voices on the left and the right
00:05:38.260 under the auspices of tackling so-called online harms.
00:05:41.980 Now, the Liberals have told us, as recently as last week,
00:05:45.860 that this is coming back.
00:05:48.020 The online harms bill is still very much a live issue.
00:05:52.140 So we cannot look at Bill C-9 in isolation.
00:05:55.300 We cannot disentangle it from this Liberal government's
00:05:58.180 stated attitudes already about freedom of expression
00:06:01.980 and, quite frankly, the contempt in which they hold
00:06:05.720 free expression and open debate.
00:06:07.820 Now, I'm going to quote someone that I believe the Liberals
00:06:11.660 have a great affinity for,
00:06:12.860 and that is former Canadian Chief Justice Beverly McLaughlin.
00:06:15.960 In her Keegstra dissent, she wrote,
00:06:19.220 If the guarantee of free expression is to be meaningful,
00:06:22.400 it must protect expression which challenges
00:06:24.860 even the very basic conceptions about our society.
00:06:28.320 A true commitment to freedom demands nothing less.
00:06:31.700 Freedom of expression, I should say, demands nothing less.
00:06:34.280 We do not need to look far to see what happens
00:06:37.000 when the threshold for hate is lowered.
00:06:40.540 In the United Kingdom, police are not even rarely
00:06:43.640 knocking on doors and arresting people over mean tweets.
00:06:48.040 Because the same desire that we're seeing behind
00:06:51.720 some of the negative and concerning impulses in C-9
00:06:54.960 is criminalizing hate based on the grounds
00:06:58.120 that words are violence.
00:07:00.780 Censors justify their limitations on freedom of expression,
00:07:03.820 by elevating speech to violence.
00:07:07.200 It is not for the state to discern,
00:07:09.200 let alone prosecute, hate that may exist in one's heart.
00:07:12.300 The law is to punish action,
00:07:14.840 and the existing laws already do this.
00:07:18.220 Now, I'd be remiss to not point out
00:07:19.700 that the Liberals only get tough on crime
00:07:22.440 when they're talking about thought criminals.
00:07:24.560 These are the only people that the Liberals
00:07:26.160 want to put behind bars.
00:07:28.060 So let's look at some of the real hate crimes
00:07:30.220 across the country.
00:07:31.060 According to Juneau News,
00:07:32.760 130-some-odd churches have been vandalized
00:07:35.940 or victimized by arson since 2021.
00:07:39.060 Synagogues in Canada have been firebombed
00:07:41.180 and vandalized,
00:07:42.200 and Jewish schools have been shot at.
00:07:44.720 If the Liberals were serious about real hate crimes,
00:07:48.280 they would be seeking mandatory 10-year prison sentences
00:07:50.960 for these heinous assaults on places of worship.
00:07:53.980 Again, the law should punish bad behavior
00:07:56.500 and not bad feelings.
00:07:59.120 And to be fair, we cannot confront
00:08:01.260 the hatred that exists in Canada
00:08:03.480 and in Canadian society
00:08:04.960 without acknowledging some of the root causes of it.
00:08:07.860 The crisis of hate
00:08:09.220 is a direct consequence of 10 years
00:08:12.040 of divisive Liberal identity politics
00:08:14.540 and the reckless breaking of the immigration system
00:08:18.120 by this Liberal government.
00:08:19.280 We cannot talk about hate
00:08:21.800 without talking about
00:08:23.160 the breaking of the immigration system
00:08:25.080 that has resulted in the importation
00:08:26.880 of foreign conflicts
00:08:27.880 and, in some cases,
00:08:29.260 very hateful ideologies into this country.
00:08:32.580 Now, much of this happened
00:08:33.600 on the watch of the Justice Minister
00:08:35.400 who tabled this bill.
00:08:37.220 He was the Immigration Minister
00:08:38.540 who looked at the first six years
00:08:40.040 of Justin Trudeau's government
00:08:41.220 and how immigration was bungled there
00:08:43.020 and said,
00:08:43.400 don't worry, I can do worse.
00:08:45.400 And he did.
00:08:46.060 It's no coincidence
00:08:47.880 that hate crimes have risen
00:08:49.220 as Canada has become less discerning
00:08:51.480 and more reckless
00:08:52.320 in its handling of the immigration system.
00:08:55.260 This is a crisis of the Liberals' creation.
00:08:58.720 I do not trust those who caused the problem
00:09:01.780 to solve it.
00:09:03.320 And I think all people
00:09:04.500 who may agree with the motivation
00:09:06.500 behind this bill
00:09:07.640 should be very cautious
00:09:09.360 to hand over this level of power
00:09:11.860 to the Liberals
00:09:12.560 when they have already demonstrated
00:09:14.420 where they want to go.
00:09:16.060 They have already demonstrated
00:09:17.500 what they want to do.
00:09:19.380 I'll return to another quote
00:09:21.320 by former Chief Justice McLaughlin
00:09:23.520 because she says,
00:09:26.220 it is not to say
00:09:27.000 that it is always illegitimate
00:09:28.360 for governments to curtail expression,
00:09:30.520 but government attempts to do so
00:09:32.280 must be viewed with suspicion.
00:09:36.020 This Liberal government
00:09:37.040 does not deserve the benefit
00:09:38.700 of the doubt on hate.
00:09:41.100 It does not deserve the benefit
00:09:42.560 of the doubt on protecting
00:09:43.760 charter liberties.
00:09:44.540 It does not deserve
00:09:46.260 the benefit of the doubt
00:09:47.880 on any of the problems
00:09:49.740 that it has been instrumental
00:09:51.360 in either allowing to fester
00:09:53.400 or in some cases outright cause.
00:09:56.600 So Bill C-9,
00:09:58.800 the good is already done
00:10:00.500 by additional laws.
00:10:01.820 The bad should send a warning sign
00:10:04.000 and the Liberals should be very ashamed
00:10:06.380 of trying to sneak this
00:10:07.360 through the back door
00:10:08.360 with a lower threshold for hate
00:10:10.220 in a country that needs to protect
00:10:11.860 and double down on free expression.
00:10:13.700 Thank you.
00:10:15.200 Questions and comments?
00:10:18.080 Hamilton West, Ancaster, Dundas.
00:10:20.720 Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
00:10:22.340 We've got the real Conservative A-Team
00:10:23.940 this afternoon.
00:10:26.540 Repeated Conservative conspiracy theories
00:10:28.920 over and over in the House.
00:10:30.340 If we want to talk about real hate crimes
00:10:32.520 and I'm not quoting, you know,
00:10:34.520 alt-right so-called alternative news,
00:10:37.260 talking about Jewish members
00:10:39.740 in my community
00:10:40.920 who are covering their Jewish identity
00:10:45.160 in public.
00:10:45.820 That is the hate that we're talking about
00:10:47.720 that this bill seeks to address.
00:10:49.760 So I'm trying to understand
00:10:51.480 what is the members opposite
00:10:53.300 real objection to this legislation.
00:10:57.100 And when they talk about freedom of expression,
00:10:59.920 it seems more and more likely
00:11:02.620 that what they're talking about
00:11:04.500 is freedom for their members
00:11:06.380 to say whatever they want
00:11:08.240 without consequences.
00:11:09.880 Is that the real objection?
00:11:11.320 Thank you.
00:11:12.360 The Home Member for Elgin St. Thomas, London South.
00:11:15.080 Mr. Speaker, I wish the member
00:11:16.320 had spent less time working on
00:11:17.820 what he thought was a zinger
00:11:18.740 and more time listening to my speech,
00:11:20.860 where I detailed in excruciatingly
00:11:23.880 and I will argue painful detail,
00:11:26.700 real hate that is occurring
00:11:28.000 against Christians,
00:11:28.920 against the Jewish community.
00:11:29.860 I mentioned the firebombing of synagogues,
00:11:31.760 the shooting of Jewish schools.
00:11:33.260 And by the way,
00:11:33.960 the members should be well aware
00:11:35.000 that the Jewish community
00:11:36.320 has looked at this liberal government
00:11:38.120 and been absolutely ashamed
00:11:40.460 to be represented by people
00:11:42.020 that have cozied up with the very people
00:11:44.380 who are responsible for Jew hatred
00:11:46.920 in this country.
00:11:48.200 So I do not take any cues from this member
00:11:50.520 who wants to accuse conservatives
00:11:51.880 standing up for freedom
00:11:52.920 of being conspiracy theorists.
00:11:54.720 He should be ashamed of that.
00:11:56.000 Here, here, here, here, here.
00:11:57.420 Just the honour and commentaire,
00:11:58.500 the honour of the deputy de Jean-Kierre.
00:12:00.140 The honourable member for Jean-Kierre.
00:12:03.140 Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
00:12:05.000 I was listening to my colleague.
00:12:07.880 He said we should have mandatory minimums
00:12:10.400 for church-based or synagogue-based vandalism.
00:12:16.280 I can see where he gets this idea.
00:12:21.400 But if you take it further,
00:12:23.500 if you take it further,
00:12:24.940 I wonder if my colleague would agree
00:12:26.240 that the religious exemption
00:12:28.620 for hate speech should be abolished or not.
00:12:33.460 What does he think?
00:12:34.200 Should we get rid of the religious exemption
00:12:35.700 in this bill?
00:12:36.380 Thomas London South.
00:12:38.020 Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
00:12:39.120 And I thank my colleague for his question
00:12:40.880 and his commitment to actually interrogating
00:12:43.600 what is not in this bill.
00:12:45.900 And the reason I raised what I did
00:12:47.780 about the lack of stiff penalties
00:12:49.560 for people who assault in heinous ways
00:12:53.160 places of worship
00:12:54.080 is because this is something
00:12:55.380 that is not theoretical.
00:12:56.400 It's not hypothetical.
00:12:57.320 We see it happening
00:12:58.420 on a sadly regular basis in this country.
00:13:00.700 And it is not covered by this liberal law.
00:13:03.900 And liberals in the past
00:13:04.860 have actually been endorsing
00:13:07.400 or rationalizing
00:13:08.860 to some of these assaults on churches.
00:13:10.820 So I think this is an important discussion
00:13:12.580 and I want to see real action on real hate,
00:13:15.660 not lowering the threshold
00:13:16.880 on how we define it.
00:13:18.820 Questions and comments?
00:13:20.060 The Honourable Member
00:13:20.800 for Aurora Oak Ridges, Richmond Hill.
00:13:23.160 Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
00:13:24.500 Mr. Speaker, peculiarly,
00:13:26.140 this bill that the Liberals have put together
00:13:29.340 addresses things that are already covered
00:13:32.060 by the Legal Code of Canada.
00:13:35.620 There are already laws protecting
00:13:37.860 and actually speaking to things
00:13:40.620 like the swastika and other things.
00:13:42.620 Could the Member elaborate a little bit further
00:13:44.520 on why he thinks those things
00:13:46.460 that are already covered by law in Canada
00:13:48.420 are virtually being signaled
00:13:51.380 by these Liberals in debate here in the House?
00:13:56.260 The Honourable Member for Elgin St. Thomas, London South.
00:13:58.180 Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
00:13:59.240 And thank you to my colleague.
00:14:00.300 And that is indeed one of the glaring issues with this.
00:14:02.580 The parts of the bill that there's no objection to
00:14:06.320 from me or my colleagues
00:14:07.720 are things that are already illegal in Canada,
00:14:10.100 making this redundant in a lot of ways.
00:14:12.700 And I pointed to a recent case
00:14:14.300 where someone was charged for displaying a hate symbol
00:14:16.400 under existing hate laws.
00:14:18.220 Now, I have to draw attention to the fact
00:14:20.060 that not half an hour ago,
00:14:21.200 I pointed this out to the Parliamentary Secretary,
00:14:24.200 to the Justice Minister, a lawyer herself,
00:14:26.260 and she had no idea.
00:14:27.400 She had no answer.
00:14:28.160 So if the Liberals have not prepared
00:14:29.860 for the most basic challenging of this,
00:14:32.600 what else have they not actually investigated
00:14:34.620 on their own legislation?
00:14:36.540 Time for a brief question.
00:14:37.560 The Honourable Parliamentary Secretary,
00:14:38.920 the Government House Leader.
00:14:39.880 Mr. Speaker, providing clarity
00:14:41.480 and providing strong legislation
00:14:44.060 is really critically important.
00:14:45.860 We are seeing that in this bill.
00:14:47.400 The question I have for the member is,
00:14:48.940 would he apply the very same principle
00:14:50.720 that he is saying now with respect to this bill
00:14:53.460 to private members' bills,
00:14:55.040 which are numerous coming from the Conservative Party,
00:14:57.100 where the criminal law already covers it?
00:14:59.700 Would he suggest that we...
00:15:00.900 Logan St. Thomas, London South, 25 seconds or less.
00:15:03.580 Thank you.
00:15:04.160 I don't need that much time to say what I've already said
00:15:06.500 because the member I don't think was listening,
00:15:08.240 which is that we need to enforce the existing laws
00:15:10.980 where they already cover what's happening
00:15:12.440 in this country on hate.
00:15:13.560 But moreover, we cannot allow the Liberal government
00:15:15.860 to sneak into law a lower threshold for defining hate
00:15:19.900 that will be used to curb free expression in this country.
00:15:23.220 That was a brilliant speech by Lawton,
00:15:25.140 and I commend him for doing that.
00:15:26.480 In case you're unaware,
00:15:28.140 Andrew Lawton was a long-time political commentator
00:15:30.480 for right-wing news organization True North.
00:15:33.600 And it looks like he's putting his political commentary skills
00:15:35.920 to good use.
00:15:37.420 And I also believe that very few people understand
00:15:39.780 Conservative politics as much as somebody
00:15:42.060 who made a living talking about Conservative politics.
00:15:45.760 So I just wanted to add that.
00:15:47.220 But I do agree with Andrew Lawton about this bill.
00:15:50.000 Bill C-9 is bad news.
00:15:51.920 There's serious concerns with this bill.
00:15:53.480 Canada already has laws against hate speech.
00:15:56.960 However, because freedom of expression is enshrined in the Charter,
00:16:00.620 the standard that has to be met for someone to be charged is really high.
00:16:04.120 And the standard that has to be met for someone to be convicted is even higher.
00:16:08.080 Only the worst of the worst get convicted of hate speech in Canada.
00:16:11.520 And rightfully so.
00:16:12.840 The Liberal government is now trying to change this,
00:16:15.140 meaning that journalists and political commentators will have to walk on eggshells.
00:16:18.480 Now to be fair, this legislation isn't as bad as Trudeau's online harms bill.
00:16:22.980 However, this does show the Liberal government is willing to pick up where Trudeau left off.
00:16:27.680 Quite frankly, I don't approve of hate speech laws at all.
00:16:30.440 While the government says these laws are to prevent against hate speech,
00:16:33.940 they could be used to censor people that are critical of the government.
00:16:37.380 That's why it's a slippery slope and we need to push back.
00:16:40.260 The fact of the matter is that Canada is becoming more and more like the United Kingdom every single day.
00:16:44.280 In case you're unaware, in the United Kingdom, you can literally be sent to jail
00:16:48.280 for criticizing mass immigration or radical Islam.
00:16:52.400 If Carney gets his way, that'll be the end of civilization as we know it in Canada.
00:16:57.280 That being said, it's still legal for me to make these videos right now.
00:17:01.460 However, if the Liberals have their way, people like me will in fact be sent to jail.
00:17:06.840 I'm not fear-mongering.
00:17:08.140 I'm not being hyperbolic.
00:17:09.640 That's the reality we're faced with.
00:17:11.700 And that's why we need PolyEv in office.
00:17:13.440 We really need to get PolyEv in office.
00:17:16.400 Or else, every street corner is going to have a mosque
00:17:19.140 and kids will start learning Arabic and the Quran in elementary school.
00:17:23.640 I'm not joking.