Jay Dyer is a writer, podcaster, and host of the He Who Shall Not Be Named podcast. In this episode, he joins us to discuss his new book, Conspiracy Theories, and why we should all be worried.
00:04:15.960So you've had a big influence in, I guess, like the conspiratorial movement of my life, or at least the growing, the development of the ideas that I've had coming to this point.
00:04:27.120Because, you know, I'm friends with Clint, like we were talking about before.
00:04:30.000So I was very into politics, geopolitics, economics, libertarian theory, stuff like that.
00:04:34.380And then that led me down the rabbit hole, which kind of fed right back into my faith, the church that I had left.
00:04:43.500And now I'm in the process of rediscovering it, but with a different lens, right?
00:04:50.160Whereas before I would have told you, I think the Bible is a set of stories that we should live by, really important, but analogies, you know, things like that.
00:04:57.640But now I'm rereading it and I'm like, all this stuff is true.
00:05:02.680And I invited you on because I wanted to know more about the type of Christianity that you speak about mostly.
00:05:12.920Because it seems like one of the purest forms, it seems like people like Buck Johnson, who I've been friends with and I've interviewed, he went from atheist to orthodox.
00:05:25.280And the change in his personality has been like startling.
00:05:32.940So I'm like, what is going on with this specific type of Christianity?
00:05:39.260Did you know, you knew him before, back when he was atheist, you knew him?
00:06:17.160And Jay, just so you know where I'm coming from, it's like I've, I don't want to say conceited because I never denied that the world was most accurately viewed through a biblical lens.
00:06:28.920But I came to this understanding after years of absorbing conspiracy and supernatural sort of more of a supernatural worldview.
00:06:43.880And so I don't think you can have that be your basis of understanding the world and not consider strongly that the Bible is an accurate representation of what's happening.
00:06:55.680But it wasn't something that I jumped into because I'm sure I don't have to tell you.
00:06:59.720But for a long time, the most easily dunked on religion was Christianity.
00:07:05.980And not easily, maybe that's not the word, but most readily dunked on religion was Christianity.
00:07:11.900It seemed to be the one that it was no holds bars.
00:07:14.600You can get on stage and say whatever you want about Jesus, about the church, about the Bible.
00:07:19.120And so I wasn't eager, let's say, to jump into that and start to adopt those worldviews.
00:07:27.320But after a certain amount of time and in my own personal experiences, it's been 17 years now that I've been what I could call a conspiracy theorist.
00:07:37.700And only the past maybe four years did I come around to understanding that, yes, the world is most accurately viewed through a biblical lens.
00:07:50.700And so when you try to quantify that and how much I understand about Christianity in the Bible, it's actually very little.
00:07:58.820I just know that based off of my experiences and things that I've seen, I'm like, OK, this is true.
00:08:04.260It's it's the best lens through which to look at these things.
00:08:07.540So this show, along with the audience, has been like a learning experience.
00:08:15.380So when I talks about the Buck Johnson interview, that was the most not the most technical because we've had people on like Gary Wayne and L.A. Marzulli and a bunch of these characters in this space who see a lot of the supernatural through the biblical lens.
00:08:32.440But I'm hoping that this will serve as, you know, not too technical.
00:08:37.600Right. Because you don't want to be I don't want to give the audience anything too dry.
00:08:41.260We're kind of retards on this show and we like to give people exciting, retarded content.
00:08:46.500But I am also excited to learn about the thing that I've come to understand is the the proper viewing.
00:08:52.300I do. I do a lot of boring, retarded content, but I can also do exciting, retarded content, too.
00:08:56.860So there's a there's an overlap. There's a Venn diagram of two levels of retarded and that we can we can hit the middle there.
00:09:03.540So but yeah, no, I mean, I think you're right that in the last, you know, since the coup, it seems like a lot of people actually maybe before that you could go back to remember when Bruce Gender was propped up as the woman of the year.
00:09:19.280I think a lot of people started thinking, wait a minute, like there's a big scale push, not just for like.
00:09:28.580But like actual evil, like there's actual evil going on.
00:09:31.840And then I think when a lot of people started seeing the DRAG stuff with kids at libraries, you know, then people start thinking, wait a minute, there's actually like a legit spiritual evil.
00:09:42.760That's more than just, you know, the government trying to control us, which that's true.
00:09:48.320But a lot of people, I think we're thinking that if there's this much evil that we can start to see out there, there's got to be a good, you know, to the contrast with evil.
00:09:58.000So I think that opened up a lot of people's ideas to the possibility of, you know, like you said, spiritual realities, but also maybe even the existence of God for people that, you know, hadn't considered that or had been going through an atheist agnostic phase.
00:10:13.260I kind of had a, I guess you could say a doubting Christianity phase, maybe from about 2008 to 2012.
00:10:22.100And I was kind of interested in perennialism and Neoplatonism and that kind of stuff.
00:10:26.400And then I started, you know, kind of gradually working my way back just through getting back into reading the Bible about 2013, 14.
00:10:34.380So, yeah, I think this is happening to a lot of people because we're just noticing like objective evil.
00:10:39.680And the best account for this, the best explanation is, like you said, the worldview that's presented in the Bible.
00:10:48.460And then, you know, as to what Orthodox Christianity is, we think it's really just the ancient expression of Christianity that you see in the first thousand years.
00:10:58.360So we would reject a lot of the conspiratorial accounts that you see amongst evangelicals or Seventh-day Adventists or even Muslims where they say, oh, well, Constantine created this Christianity, you know, at the Council of Nicaea where they invented the Trinity or something like that.
00:11:14.860We do a lot of what we've done several about a lot, but we've done several talks where we go into looking at the church fathers of the first, second and third century, where it shows that they taught the Trinity, too.
00:11:25.680So what happened at the Council of Nicaea wasn't something new, wasn't invented, wasn't a contrast or a contradiction to the Christianity of the first three centuries.
00:11:34.520And so if we look at the, you know, other issues like the formation of what's called the canon of Scripture, and that just means the books that went into the Bible to make it up as we know it today, we would argue that you can't really divorce the living, existing historical community of the church from that decision.
00:11:55.020And when we go back and when we look at what those people believed in those centuries, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, particularly, they believe what we believe.
00:12:03.540So that for me was a really long journey.
00:12:06.100It took me many, many years to come to this.
00:12:08.340I started out as a Baptist and then had a long period where I was a Roman Catholic.
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00:13:32.400And then I noticed a lot of problems with the Vatican's claims and the history of the church as well.
00:13:40.140So that was a long, maybe 15-year approach for me to come to orthodoxy.
00:13:45.660But in short, yeah, we just think that it is the church of the first thousand years, and I'm not limiting it there.
00:13:51.880We think it's the church of the second thousand years.
00:13:53.660But if you get into this issue of like, say, Protestant versus Catholic, a lot of people think, well, if I go read those people for the first thousand years, that'll help me determine like, you know, where the Bible came from.
00:14:08.020Should we have, you know, synods and councils?
00:14:11.360What's the best way for the church to be governed?
00:14:13.000All these questions kind of emerge out of the first thousand years of Christianity.
00:14:16.700And so for me, when I went and dove into those guys, it was pretty obvious after a while that they didn't believe in the papacy, as we know of it today.
00:14:25.840And they weren't operating like a standard, you know, evangelical church, but they were, for all intents and purposes, identical to the orthodox church.
00:14:34.040That's what we would say it is, is the historical church.
00:14:36.280Yeah, we, on the show, like, it's not that we, like, tear down church.
00:14:41.260I don't want to say that we do that, but we talk about this idea of, like, what is church?
00:14:47.600And, like, we're still not really sure.
00:14:50.440Like, we think, like, a community, obviously a community of people is kind of like a church, just where one or more are gathered in my name.
00:14:56.680In a way, we're doing that with, you know, the people that watch this, but it's not, it's not quite church.
00:15:02.540And one of the things that drew me away from church, I was in it for a long time, Pentecostal, was the governmental organizational structure of the church.
00:15:11.360You have the treasury department, you've got a president, you've got, like, layers of this bureaucracy.
00:15:16.700And when you, I played music in it, when you're in it, it's disgusting.
00:15:21.100Because you kind of, like, take a peek underneath and you're like, this shit is all rotted.
00:15:23.920You have, like, fat, bitchy women running everything in the Pentecostal church.
00:15:47.960Yeah, I think church governance is a good point.
00:15:50.540It's kind of a boring topic when people think about church governance.
00:15:53.660But, you know, we would say that all the stuff that you see in the Old Testament and the way Israel operated, we see them as the Old Testament church.
00:16:02.440So they had the role of a high priest.
00:16:04.940They had the priest and they had the Levite.
00:16:08.580And for us, that corresponds to the New Testament teaching of bishop, presbyter or priest, and then a deacon.
00:16:15.140So there's that three tiered structure is the same in the Old Testament to the New Testament.
00:16:19.180Of course, Christ is the ultimate high priest for us, not the Pope or anything like that.
00:16:23.000So the ultimate high priest role, we think, is fulfilled in the person of Christ when he ascended into heaven.
00:16:27.700But then there is still, in our view, what we would say is the Melchizedekian priesthood, which if you look at Psalm 110, right, it says that I will make you a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
00:16:38.920So Christ's priesthood is that eternal priesthood.
00:16:42.180And both the person of Melchizedek in Genesis and the Levitical priesthood or the Aaronic priesthood, we would say both of those priesthoods in history are types or fulfillments of the priesthood.
00:16:53.000And so when he establishes the new Israel, we think in the Gospels, when Jesus is talking about the kingdom in Matthew 16 and Matthew 18, and when he tells the apostles, you know, I'll give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
00:17:06.000He doesn't just say it to Peter in Matthew 16 like the Roman Catholics think.
00:17:09.740He also says in Matthew 18, two chapters later, that the whole college of the apostles possesses the same keys and authority.
00:17:17.540But he also says in Matthew, he who hears you, hears me.
00:17:20.840So we think that there's a legitimate authority passed on to them.
00:17:24.100He breathes on them at the end of John and says, whoever sins, you remit, they're remitted.
00:17:28.540Whoever sins, you retain, they're retained.
00:17:30.280And then in the book of Acts, you see them going out after Pentecost, after they're empowered by the Holy Spirit.
00:17:36.280They go out and set up churches and particularly the letters of Paul to Timothy are probably the most relevant here because Paul says to Timothy, I appointed you in Ephesus.
00:17:47.500And then he says, you lay hands on men after you who are, you know, qualified, have good morals, et cetera, good character, who know the faith.
00:17:54.900And he says that all the things you heard from me in the presence of many witnesses.
00:17:58.480So that includes Paul's oral catechesis or teaching.
00:18:02.520So if you look at Acts 20, for example, Paul says, I'm pretty sure it's 20, says that he taught for three years, day and night in Ephesus.
00:18:09.040So he's teaching catechizing, not just with written texts.
00:18:12.420Certainly he's commenting on the Old Testament.
00:18:14.500But the whole body of doctrines, which is oral and written, is what Paul charges Timothy in those two epistles to pass on.
00:18:22.160And he specifically says, and this is a key point of departure, I think, from pretty much most Protestants would be where Paul says that do not lay hands hastily on somebody because the gift of the Holy Spirit, he says, is transferred in that what we call the right of ordination.
00:18:37.440So when a person is ordained, we believe it's an actual sort of historical descent from the original apostolic body.
00:18:46.320And that for us is what we call apostolic succession.
00:18:49.180And so when I was a Protestant, that kind of became a key dividing line between the Protestant view and on this, just that topic, Orthodox and Catholics agree in terms of apostolic succession.
00:19:00.580They think, of course, that it's only through the Pope that this has had.
00:19:03.680We think that it comes just from the individual apostles.
00:21:08.520Um, and you see the bizarre symbolism, uh, people point to the hat of the Pope being a representation of, uh, of Dagon, the Philistine God, Dagon.
00:21:19.720Um, and also the auditorium that he sits in oftentimes looks like a giant viper.
00:21:26.560There is this backdrop to another one of his sort of speaking rooms where it's supposed to be Jesus rising from a nuclear, um, explosion.
00:21:54.780They look to the Pope as a, as a legitimate thing, or is this, you know, is this been co-opted in their eyes?
00:22:01.800Yeah, the, we would say that the co-opting, um, happened a long time ago.
00:22:06.400So from the Orthodox perspective, the split between the Eastern church and the Western church, which for the most part, for the first eight or 900 years is the same.
00:22:15.500They're squabbles, but the East and West for the first eight or 900 years is pretty much unified.
00:22:20.480And then you start having, um, some fissures around the eight hundreds where, uh, there's a new insertion into the creed on the part of Charlemagne and his court theologians.
00:22:31.780So there's, it's a, it's a kind of a move by the state here actually, uh, to try to alter the church's theological confession and the creed.
00:22:39.840And so they start saying what's known as the Philly Oakway addition to the, to the creed, the Nicene creed.
00:22:45.480So this is where it starts to rupture.
00:22:47.440There's already kind of, um, two different ideas of theology between East and West, but it really comes to fruition in 1054 when there's an official excommunicating of, um, East and West between the Pope and the patriarch of Constantinople in the East.
00:23:03.400And so that's the official sort of split of the church, uh, ever since then, we believe that the papacy kind of went just kind of even worse and worse and worse.
00:23:12.520So for us, it's like a gradual innovating to where they wanted more and more worldly power.
00:23:20.660This is, um, there's a document called dictatus poppe, uh, under, um, uh, one of the Gregorian, uh, reformed popes of the 11th century.
00:23:30.520And this document is not very long, but it has, I don't know, 30 propositions where the Pope basically makes himself, I don't know if you guys know about doom, but I mean, he basically says he's the Kwisatz Haderach.
00:23:42.040He basically says, I'm actually the emperor of all emperors.
00:23:45.480So every emperor in the world now owes their allegiance to me.
00:24:02.180That wasn't just some, some, uh, bullshit that I learned when I was a kid.
00:24:04.740No, it's, uh, so you start to see this with, there's actually before this, a fraudulent document that was appealed to called the donation of Constantine.
00:24:13.940And this was later in the Renaissance proven to be a forgery.
00:24:17.740The Vatican, you know, nowadays admits it was a forgery, but for many centuries, they backed up the, what's called the temporal power of the Bishop of Rome by this forgery.
00:24:26.720There was other forgeries that backed it up as well.
00:24:29.300Um, but we really see the first like explicit papal claims of this, uh, in the, the 11th century with what's called the Gregorian reforms.
00:24:39.200Uh, and this is where Pope Gregory and then the Pope's after him, uh, Hildebrand and others, they, they literally just revolutionized the governance of the church in the West to be totally papal.
00:24:51.540For example, prior to that, the church, the way a church would get a Bishop in the canons of the councils of the first, uh, 800 years is that it only took like three bishops or a metropolitan, a local prominent Bishop to appoint a new Bishop.
00:25:05.340But when you get the Gregorian reforms, the Pope says, no, I now appoint and approve all bishops in the world.
00:25:12.680And you can see why he would want to do that because now he can ensure that every Bishop in the world is now a papal Bishop and in line with him, you see.
00:25:21.120So, and this isn't admitted, this isn't like a conspiracy.
00:25:23.820Like this is just an admitted historical change in the governance of the church.
00:25:27.860But this is why you'll see Roman Catholics even to this day.
00:25:30.740Well, they'll just say, well, the Pope can do whatever he wants.
00:25:52.060It's a famous document because it's the first document where the papacy says, not only do you have to be in the Roman Catholic church to be saved,
00:26:00.140you actually have to believe also in the doctrine of the temporal supremacy of the Roman bishop to be saved.
00:26:06.360So it kind of, it ups the ante even more.
00:26:09.040So from the Orthodox perspective, we think that the temptation to worldly power, to, you know, having eventually the Vatican bank, all this crazy stuff.
00:26:18.500We think that it kind of began back a long time ago.
00:26:21.720And then it just kind of snowballed to what you have today to fast forward up to where you were talking about with like the weird stuff with, it's called the Paul VI audience hall.
00:26:31.320There have been some weird Masonic and occultic architects who designed stuff for the Vatican in the modern like 60s, 70s and 80s period.
00:26:41.060So I wouldn't be surprised if that audience hall wasn't designed by some weirdo creep or some PEDO, because that's pretty well known.
00:26:49.760But if you really go into the depth of like the conspiracy of the modern Vatican, that's all CIA stuff.
00:26:55.700And even Catholic researchers have written giant books proving this, particularly David Wemhoff's book about the relationship of the CIA to the Vatican at the time of the Cold War, 1950s and 60s.
00:27:09.120It's called the Doctrinal Warfare Program, and we even know who headed it up.
00:27:13.340It was a guy named C.D. Jackson, and he was working with Jesuits that the CIA kind of recruited to be assets.
00:27:20.020It's incredible how they have their clothes and everything.
00:27:49.140I think so even by the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh century, you start to see the Bishop of Rome, who we would say is a legitimate bishop.
00:28:00.880Like he was the Church of Rome originally began just like all the other what we say is Orthodox churches.
00:28:07.020But what happened was because Rome was the, you know, seat of the empire in the first 300 years of Christianity, before you get the creation of Constantinople by Constantine, what's called old Rome had a preeminence.
00:28:21.040And they had a preeminence not because of some special gift of Peter or invalibility.
00:28:28.080But we believe it's just because, as like St. Irenaeus says in his book Against Heresies, if you read, I think it's book four of that, he says that Rome is great because Peter and Paul preached and were martyred there.
00:28:43.680So there's nothing mentioned about like a special gift of invalibility or anything like that.
00:28:50.300But there is an honor that's given to Rome just because of tradition.
00:28:53.680And if you look at what's called a canon of Nicaea, and so the first ecumenical council, they would usually attach these canons, which are just rules of church governance.
00:29:03.460The sixth canon says that in the church, we'll have a kind of a status of which bishops have honor.
00:29:11.220And Rome is given the first status, and then Alexandria, and then Antioch.
00:29:17.380Antioch is another place where Peter went and preached Christianity.
00:29:20.940And if you go to an Orthodox church, for example, a lot of them are called Antiochian Orthodox.
00:29:25.660They derive their descent from Peter going to Antioch.
00:29:29.940So in other words, the point Orthodox often make there is that like that's just as much a Petrine church as Rome is.
00:29:37.940So there's no reason, like why wouldn't, you know, if you believe in infallibility of the Petrine descent, like why wouldn't there be that infallibility at Antioch?
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00:32:36.860And so the you might you're probably referring to what's called the deuterocanon, which is like Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Ecclesiasticus or Sirach.
00:32:56.360So we don't agree with the sort of the first being like Martin Luther and Calvin were the first to really say we don't want those books in here.
00:33:03.940So sometimes Protestants call those the apocrypha.
00:33:08.460But there's also other books that are called pseudepigrapha, like the Book of Enoch or something like that, which there's a few.
00:33:16.620I think the Slavonic, which is like the old Russian Bible, I think it includes the Book of Enoch.
00:33:22.380So because we don't believe in Sola Scriptura, like we don't have a problem with there being legitimate tradition in something like the Book of Enoch, even though it's not technically like it's not it's not in the Orthodox study Bible.
00:33:35.260Like if you get the Orthodox study Bible, it won't have it won't have Enoch in it.
00:33:38.460But we will have all those books that the Catholics have that Protestants don't.
00:34:21.260The origin of like vestments in the church has to do with the Book of Revelation and that we we see the priests as analogs to the priests in the in the Old Testament.
00:34:32.740So it's more like, you know, the outfit that the priest wears matches the type of outfit that you would see the priests in the Old Testament wearing.
00:34:42.040Yeah. So we talked about it at the top of this show where Alex Jones is now talking about his admiration of orthodoxy.
00:34:54.740And we're in this time, you know, whether it was COVID or something like that that woke people up or we talked about it earlier, this drag queen story hour, all these different things sort of built up and broke the dam.
00:35:10.520Well, now it becomes impossible to look around and go.
00:35:17.420And we find ourselves in a really interesting place.
00:35:21.080I ask people if they think that we are in the beginning of maybe what you you would call a revitalization, you know, because as I said, my path here was through all these world events,
00:35:36.320was through seeing all this occult symbolism and conspiracy theories and all these different things.
00:35:41.580I'm not unique in that. I think a lot of people have have come through in that direction.
00:35:46.500And if that's true, then are we possibly seeing a resurgence in Christianity?
00:35:52.320And right now, top and I were just talking about it maybe last week, where the emergence of a new what would you call this top?
00:36:04.620Like they're going to label it like white supremacy or or anti-Semitism or any number of things.
00:36:09.960Right. But like the phrase Christ is king is now becoming this this like hot button topic, which is fascinating because.
00:36:19.040Yeah, I understand kind of like both sides of it.
00:36:23.120There's a James Lindsay side where he's saying you're weaponizing it.
00:36:26.020And then there's another side that's saying like, you know, like you're actually glorifying Jesus.
00:36:31.060I'm in between. I think I think people are doing all those things.
00:36:33.720But I feel like it's a it's a necessary thing that has to happen in order for the next whatever next steps to play out.
00:36:41.600So people will misuse this stuff and they'll use it as a battering ram.
00:36:45.700But the fact that it's in the meme, it's out there in the ether and people are like thinking about this phrase a lot, says a lot about the times that we're in it.
00:36:55.660And Jay, I know you had a different take than we would have on the the red heifers and things like that.
00:37:01.780And like these weird what what possibly seems like a biblical prophecy unfolding could be obviously translated in multiple different ways.
00:37:10.940But it just I can't help but feel that we're at a culmination and we're building up to something.
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00:38:31.280Yeah, a lot of questions there, a lot of issues.
00:38:36.700I think, in my view, the Orthodox view on the end times is that we take some of those passages that are talked about, like in Luke 21 and Matthew 24, in what's called a partial preterist sense.
00:38:49.360And that means that the immediate context is Jesus talking about the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.
00:38:55.920And that's the sign that's supposed to occur that lets everyone know that the old covenant is finished.
00:39:02.300So when the temple's gone, if you read Luke 21, because it's written for a Gentile audience, it's a little clearer than what is in Matthew 24, all of that discourse.
00:39:11.100And Jesus says to the immediate audience standing in front of him, you here, when you see this temple gone, then you'll know that the things written of in the prophets, that that vengeance has been completed, has been fulfilled on this generation.
00:39:26.140So that's what we call partial preterism.
00:39:28.460It doesn't mean everything was fulfilled in 70 AD, like the bodily second coming of Christ didn't occur.
00:39:49.240And for example, if you look at the way that on the day of atonement, the high priest would walk into the Holy of Holies and sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat of the ark.
00:39:58.420If you read the book of Hebrews in chapters seven and eight, Hebrews states that Jesus ascending into heaven, the third heavens, the throne of God, and preparing the way for us in that ascent.
00:40:10.200That was the fulfillment of the high priest going into the Holy of Holies.
00:40:13.740So that tells us that the temple is kind of a little a little model of the universe.
00:40:18.620When you walk into the temple, for example, there would be a lamp stand with the candelabra, and that represented the celestial luminaries, the planets.
00:40:44.140So long story short, the destruction of the temple is a sign, not just at the end of the old covenant under Moses, but it's a sign of the end of the universe.
00:41:07.540It comes from, I think, Jordanville Monastery.
00:41:09.820But that's a great book on this topic because it does mention certain signs that would accompany the end end, the final end.
00:41:17.320And if there is a new temple built, that would be a sign of the coming of Antichrist, according to the Orthodox Church.
00:41:25.060So while I did do some interviews where I was discussing the red heifer, that I don't think there's any immediate significance to that per se.
00:41:33.840If we start to see a temple built, if we start to, I mean, they'd have to get rid of that mosque first.
00:41:40.020If we see, you know, the movement towards a world dictator that's being worshipped and the one world religion, we see that spirit already at work in the world.
00:41:50.800But I think that, you know, when we actually see it manifested, we'll we'll know that that's like the legit end.
00:41:57.540And so could we could have another thousand years of history?
00:43:08.580And it's like, yeah, they're they're waiting for those results.
00:43:11.800So Donnie Darkened is somebody that, Jay, you would probably find fascinating because he spends a lot of time connecting these dots as to why.
00:43:24.620Like even even Donald Trump's mother's maiden name was Christ.
00:43:27.980There's there's a lot of like really bizarre things that I don't know how much you get into it.
00:43:32.660But the idea that there is some sort of time traveling aspect with Donald Trump, if you look at the Ingersoll Lockwood books, if you look, I do have that book.
00:44:30.840So that's all just I mean, the book of Hebrews, the book of Galatians is pretty clear that there's not ever going to be animal sacrifices again.
00:44:41.860And if there are, it has nothing to do with Christianity.
00:44:44.900I mean, that's a return to what Hebrews says is apostasy.
00:44:48.620So I definitely think that you're on the right track that for the Jews to be deceived by an Antichrist figure, as Jesus says, if another comes in his name, him, you will believe.
00:44:58.600So the Orthodox Church has typically said that Antichrist would have to most likely be a Jew to deceive Jews.
00:45:09.900Personally, I wouldn't think that it would be Donald Trump.
00:45:12.540But you could argue that the spirit of what we see with goobers like John Hagee and these kind of people is definitely an Antichrist spirit for sure.
00:45:20.920What do you what do you make of like what's been going on?
00:45:25.520I mean, it's it's it's fun to talk about on Twitter.
00:45:27.720I know I don't know if you see the stuff.
00:45:29.140I say wild stuff about like, you know, the Jewish question going on on Twitter, but paying attention to it more in a more focused manner is really what people should be doing.
00:45:39.400If you're like red flags aren't going up with what they've been doing on that side there and like the behavior of of some of their more prominent rabbis like a shmulee.
00:45:50.020These things are I'm like, what is going on in this religion and why right now is it turning almost to to embrace this like whatever it almost feels like they're embracing an endgame or something they've been building toward.
00:46:06.680I mean, that's I'm sure that in their perspective, you know, they have this idea that you can do these various works and some of the more mystical views, like even the evil works contribute to the great work of bringing forth, you know, the Messiah.
00:46:21.360But so that seems to be part of the Talmudic and rabbinic rabbinic tradition that all of these works are contributing to manifesting this salvation.
00:46:30.440But it's sort of like identical to what's going on in the New Testament when you have the figures of the zealots and a couple of the zealots, right, became followers of Christ.
00:46:39.800And their idea was that it's all about worldly power, right?
00:46:43.360It's almost analogous to what we were talking about earlier with the temptation to the papacy, right?
00:46:48.720The Roman Bishop got tempted with this.
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00:47:44.180This desire for building an army and taking over the world and being the, you know, God Emperor, the Kwisatz Haderach.
00:47:51.320And it's a similar temptation, I think, happens with what we're talking about.
00:47:56.340In my view, Israel, as we call it, this nation state, will play a role whenever that end times comes of being perhaps this domain from which this false religion for the world comes about.
00:48:12.260Maybe, and I'm just speculating, this is my speculation.
00:48:14.420Maybe we get like a future papacy that says, you know, Judaism is the real religion all along and we need to capitulate to that or something like that.
00:48:25.500So I would, in my view, Antichrist would be a figure, a state figure arising.
00:48:31.560An apostate church would be analog to something like Rome that we see in the book of Revelation, the harlot of Revelation.
00:48:39.260I would say it could be a good match for something like that.
00:48:42.280And then, you know, it pushes the false church, the whore church pushes the worship of the beast, the state, this international super state.
00:48:52.080And then eventually the international super state casts off and doesn't need the whore anymore and basically says, you know, I'm God, whoever that entity or Antichrist figure is.
00:49:01.340So I think that's a, and that's kind of in my theory for a long time for like an apostate false religion.
00:49:08.640I think the Pope fits that perfectly, given that he's just capitulated more and more to, I don't know if you know about the relationship between like the papacy and Israel.
00:49:17.560I mean, the papacy is more and more capitulated to basically worshiping the Old Testament God or like the papacy has even said stuff like, you know, Jews can be saved without, they don't need Jesus.
00:49:31.320Like they have their own path and covenant to God, which is, is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
00:49:41.480Cause, cause as you go into like a couple of thoughts, what are your thoughts on the star of Remfan and that, that part of the scripture?
00:49:48.920It does seem like that star probably is a six sided star.
00:49:52.820I don't know if, if for sure that the reason that Jews adopted that star necessarily has to do with ancient Remfan worship.
00:50:03.840It could be, I'm not, I'm not positive, but I do think that the star of Remfan is supposed to be that six sided star is supposed to signify like Saturn.
00:50:12.600And, uh, you know, the worship of like, uh, human, or it's a, it has human sacrifice as part of its ideology.
00:50:19.140So there's probably something to that.
00:50:21.320I, but I just don't know if it's really been confirmed if the modern nation state of Israel has that star, because I know some people theorize that the Sabbatean cult, uh, that exists, that they had a reverence for that star, or there was a kind of a Kabbalistic reverence for that symbol.
00:50:36.600Um, any of those things are possible and I'm not sure it's a fascinating, um, line because it even mentions, not only does it represent Remfan, but also of Moloch they're mentioned in the same sentence.
00:50:52.360And that's just, it's just bizarre because you know, a lot of what we're talking about here is all these things coming to a head, a sort of a culmination of bizarre biblical events and high level noticing, right?
00:51:02.600Everybody can't stop noticing the spirituality and, and the backdrop has been painted with Moloch since, you know, Epstein's Island and the Hillary Clinton emails and all these different things.
00:51:14.980And now as we're moving forward and, and, you know, top says that there's like this big Jew question, uh, on Twitter constantly.
00:51:24.480And you find this reference to the star of Remfan directly next to a reference of Moloch, uh, and the language is such that it's a little bit hardy because it says, um, it's of Remfan, but not of Moloch, something, there's a different.
00:51:42.140You've taken up the, you've taken up the tabernacle of Moloch.
00:52:35.520I, I, I, I, I think you're right that like we, there's not a direct connection anywhere.
00:52:40.920Biblically speaking between the hexagram and David, but I'm just saying that if we begin to see the hexagram associated with the nation state of Israel, you know, uh, around the time of the Rothschilds or whatever, I'm not exactly sure.
00:52:55.480When that star begins to be a symbolic of the nation state of Israel, there is, um, a tradition that perhaps even goes back, uh, ancient, more ancient than that.
00:53:06.520Where Philo says something like there was a tradition that, that, uh, Solomon, you know, had created a ring.
00:53:14.560Now the keys of Solomon is a later, uh, forgery, but Philo does talk about, and I remember I took a note of this when I was reading through, uh, some of, uh, no, excuse me, not Philo, uh, Josephus.
00:53:27.840So Josephus talks about this tradition in his day of the, uh, various sigils that Solomon used, or, and then he had a ring of this sort of sigil.
00:53:37.420But if I recall, it wasn't a six sided star, I think it was a five sided star.
00:53:40.540So, um, maybe by the time of the emergence of the keys of Solomon in the 15 or 1600s, wherever that that's, that's a fake document.
00:53:56.300But regardless of all that, I think that there's a more, uh, evident example where if we look at where Stephen in Acts eight is pulling, pulling from, he's talking about the whole history of Israel.
00:54:10.080I mean, the nation state of Israel from the time of Mount Sinai onwards is constantly tempted with turning to the, the pagan worship of the nations around them.
00:54:20.960And that includes, uh, you know, it's like sex rights that we see in numbers, Baal Peor and human sacrifice, which is mentioned in book of Jeremiah.
00:54:29.180Uh, you know, this is why it's forbidden in, uh, Exodus and in numbers to, to do in Leviticus, to do that kind of sacrifice because the nations around Israel were tempting them with it.
00:54:39.960They continually fell into that worship.
00:54:42.000But thus so much of the prophetic literature, whether it's Jeremiah or Hosea or, or whoever is railing against that kind of human sacrifice, harlot temptation that Israel is tempted with.
00:54:54.660So, I mean, we don't have to like that that that's in the, the tradition, I think of the erroneous side of Judaism.
00:55:03.900I mean, this is the Babylonian Talmud, I think includes a lot of speculations about magical practices, the Zohar, these kinds of things, you know, include, um, these practices, which not necessarily every Jew did.
00:55:18.100But within the, the rabbinic Judaism tradition, you've got, you've got rationalists like Maimonides, you've got, uh, esotericists and occultists like, uh, maybe Nachmanides, who's a Kabbalist.
00:55:31.840So you do have these different strands within the history of Judaism where they would engage in magical practices, creating of amulets and this kind of stuff.
00:55:39.580So I think that there was always been this strand present in various strands of rabbinic Judaism.
00:55:46.220And that's what really, uh, makes the Bible interesting, going back and reading it from the beginning, because, you know, just in the, in, uh, the Ten Commandments, he said, you shall take no gods before me.
00:55:56.400And before that's kind of like, what does that mean?
00:55:59.100But obviously we've named the show Nephilim Death Squad, and then you start to get into fallen angels and their offspring.
00:56:06.100And you're talking, I mean, then you can go down the line through historical figures in the Egyptian line and in the Greek pantheon.
00:56:12.540And now we're talking about actual small G gods that have had power here on earth.
00:56:19.420And at maybe at one point we're actually like in a physical body here that people were worshiping.
00:56:56.960Like we were doing this before, but on this kind of a scale, it's almost unheard of at this point.
00:57:02.060One, just, this is just an interesting side note.
00:57:05.740Uh, one of those, uh, Ginsburg, remember the beat poet Ginsburg?
00:57:10.880He, he said on one of his drug trips, he interacted with Molech and he, he felt like that the sixties counterculture was manifesting the entity known as Molech.
00:57:23.060Like, which is interesting because like, this is when you start to see the push for, you know, abortion, so to speak, um, sexual, sexual deviancy.
00:57:34.720He said that there's, there's a book where he talks about this.
00:57:37.360It's, uh, it's, there's a book, it's a Normie book on the history of the sixties counterculture called storming heaven by Jay Stevens.
00:57:43.820And there's a whole chapter on, uh, Ginsburg and his, uh, you know, drug trips and what do you saw and experience?
00:57:49.900And he was like, yeah, I saw Molech and Molech was telling me like, you know, I'm going to be the God of America.
00:58:32.820And I think that, yeah, ultimately all of the, the religions out there that aren't Christianity, they always tend in this direction.
00:58:41.140I'm not saying every person in those religions is demonic, but that if you're part of that spirit, that as time progresses, they're more and more going to participate in that spirit of anti-Christianity.
00:58:52.920Even Islam is, you know, according to John antichrist, because John says he, that does not confess Christ coming in the flesh, God in flesh is of the spirit of antichrist.
00:59:04.420And I mean, the biggest, the biggest anti-Christian religion on the face of the planet is, is Islam.
00:59:08.420So I used to think like maybe 10 years ago, I didn't know a lot about Islam.
00:59:14.060I mean, I knew a lot about Christian metaphysics and theology and apologetics, but I didn't know much about Islam.
00:59:18.420And I thought, well, you know, they got a few things wrong, but they're kind of based or whatever, but they're not, it's, it's crazy.
00:59:24.980I mean, when you really get into Islam, as I have the last like four or five years, you start to see like, this is, it's really bad news.
00:59:31.640And I'm not trying to say that rabbinic Judaism isn't bad, but, um, I think rabbinic Judaism has no problem with Islam attacking Christianity.
00:59:47.740Do you, so by that nature, do you think, would you say that Christianity is almost, I think, I think that Christianity is in direct conflict with Judaism.
00:59:56.180Like that's the battle that has been going on.
00:59:58.520And again, this is like, this become like a JQ episode, but it kind of is.
01:00:02.420And Christianity, I don't think really is aware of that.
01:00:05.740Or maybe they're becoming aware of this.
01:00:08.260Well, the last couple of talks I did, like on the fourth hour of Alex, a couple shows back was about the deception through dispensationalism of the Schofield study Bible.
01:00:19.920And, uh, you know, like Christian Zionism and all that.
01:00:23.560I mean, that's been a tremendous, massive deception.
01:00:26.180And there's a really good case to be made that part of the reason Oxford university was so adamant about pushing the Schofield study Bible in America was to prepare for the geopolitical moves that the British empire had, had planned out with Balfour declaration.
01:30:27.540So those people aren't intentionally, you know, part of some CIA plan.
01:30:32.300They're just influenced by demonic spirits to put out, you know, like just awful, disgusting art.
01:30:39.340And I think the same thing goes on with, you know, people who are influenced by these powers, uh, uh, these spirits in most arts music as well.
01:30:49.360And then at a high level, when you get to like the big blockbusters, that's when they're like, okay,
01:30:53.280we need to intentionally put in the propaganda of, you know, Skittle stuff, uh, you know, anti this country.
01:31:00.220We need to go to war with this country.
01:31:01.580I mean, they've been doing that, you know, warfare propaganda forever in movies.
01:31:05.340So tomorrow we're actually talking to, uh, Ed Mabry again, and I was re listening to our last episode with him.
01:31:13.320And we were talking about like, uh, he said, he doesn't believe a Christian can be, um, like inhabited or possessed because you're filled with, you're already filled with the spirit.
01:32:32.380I don't, I can't speculate as to what was going on with him, but another uncle that I speak to a lot, he keeps arms distance away from this.
01:32:39.260And, uh, he's just, you know, he's an artist and this is how he makes his money.
01:33:10.200And to go back to the hip hop thing, you can see the exact same thing mirrored there where there has been a real degradation in the quality of hip hop.
01:33:20.360There's always been a question as to whether or not, uh, poetry over beats was a real, uh, accomplishment.
01:33:26.580You know, you're removing instruments and things of that nature.
01:33:28.500But I mean, people like Kanye West who fell the fuck off.
01:34:26.160But if you are some completely talentless, you know, uh, mumble rapper, well, then you depend on the people that are backing you in order for you to stay relevant.
01:34:38.340And so in order for that, uh, sort of deal to be made, you have to push that agenda, whatever it is.
01:34:44.800And we've gotten to the point where it's so obvious that hip hop is no longer, the art is no longer a reflection of the culture, but the culture is a reflection of the art.
01:34:54.920And if, if the art is leading the way, look at what they're pushing now.
01:34:59.540I mean, it's like, it's completely debaucherous, worst of the worst shit.
01:35:04.220And, and if you do believe that, that engineer, you know, hip hop is engineering much more than just the black community now, look what they're trying to turn you into.
01:35:13.540They're trying to turn you into a face tattooed, debaucherous, fucking demonic little retard.