In this episode of the End of Day Podcast, we are joined by Samuel Urban, host of the show "This illegitimate scholar" on YouTube. We talk about the dark side of the universe, and how we need to prepare ourselves for the coming apocalypse.
00:04:17.140Most of my stuff is, like, within regular academics accepted, but, you know, there's plenty of stuff in real academics and, like, real truth that's, or not real truth, but, like, stuff that would be accepted by the metrics and standards of the mainstream academia.
00:04:33.360But they just don't talk about it, and they pretend it doesn't exist, but it does, and that's what I do a lot.
00:04:40.520So I don't do a lot of speculation, I guess.
00:04:42.960I want to ask, I want to start off with a question that isn't so nuts and bolts, and this is really kind of an emotional-driven one, but recently we saw, thank you, Nancy.
00:04:53.400We saw a clip going around of Graham Hancock on the Joe Rogan experience, and Graham Hancock is one of these guys that deals with ancient archaeology and trying to unearth the actual dating behind these megalithic structures and who built them and things of that nature.
00:05:13.080And a lot of his takes are very controversial, although recently I would say that they're, he's winning.
00:05:18.980He's fighting a winning battle for a long time.
00:05:45.540I just love the psychology of moments like that when I see people that I know, they reach a certain point that a lot of people, you know, it's a bizarre thing to hear your own name dropped on one of the biggest podcasts in the world.
00:07:58.760How long have you been into all of this?
00:08:00.420I mean, this is – you know, you're talking about a moment that is sort of a – you could call it a peak, right?
00:08:07.040I mean, as far as the length of time that you've been researching and then to see the culmination of your work, you know, reach such a platform.
00:08:47.880Four years on the GI Bill, I got bachelor's degrees in history, anthropology, did an archaeological field school during that, and in education.
00:09:28.560It's just that – I find that curious, right?
00:09:31.920That such a young age to have such a fascination with history, I often find it interesting, the things that people are drawn to when they're young,
00:09:39.720and then they continue to tenaciously throughout their adult life.
00:10:25.080I – you know, people will accuse me of being some sort of alternative hack.
00:10:29.200And in certain ways, sure, I'm alternative.
00:10:30.860But not really in the sense that, like, I still mostly work in – work within the same rules that academia does in their methodology and everything,
00:10:54.740I was trying to ask him what the difference was between slavery and serfdom.
00:10:59.460And, like, each answer that he gives me is just, like – I'm, like, okay, so, like, in serfdom, they're owned – the people are owned by the land,
00:12:25.960So, no, I'm full-blown fascist at this point.
00:12:28.860It's interesting how that does – that pipeline does lead you to the places where we're at
00:12:35.780because it's like an innocent stage where you thought that things could still sort of be fixed with these modern solutions.
00:12:42.820But I think after a while you're like, ah, this is not leading to anywhere.
00:12:46.940But I wanted to ask you – so on our show we focus on the fantastical and we do a lot of theorizing.
00:12:54.820But what about Graham Hancock's work do you agree with?
00:12:59.900Because it's a very contentious subject.
00:13:01.640I mean, he's talking about 14,000-year-old civilizations, whereas I think modern – the modern stand would be like, I don't know, less than six, eight to six?
00:13:16.580I guess what you're pointing to, Top, would be the idea of when we transition from hunter-gatherer to basically a peoples that could or were capable of creating a civilization.
00:13:25.980Yeah, the civilizations, Gobekli Tepe specifically, where –
00:13:30.360Yeah, so I mean, there's – it's hard, right?
00:13:35.620Because like Gobekli Tepe kind of does upend a lot of things in archaeology, but there's like things about it that are not explained, and there's things going on with it that are very weird.
00:13:46.600The thing that really strikes me about Graham Hancock and an example of this is he's in this debate with Flint Dibble, right?
00:13:56.120And with Flint Dibble, who's this archaeologist who's just a really, really rude guy, really pompous guy, very – like I don't hate all academics.
00:14:56.580They have specific methods that have their pros and cons.
00:14:59.100Some of them are very good, and I think it would be better if alternative and mainstream work together, but the mainstream doesn't want to do that.
00:15:06.740So in this conversation, right, they're having this conversation.
00:15:10.580I have a lot of things to say about what was said, but one of the main things that I remember that struck me is that they were talking about this specific site.
00:15:19.500I think it was Sasquehanna, which is one that I know less about, but the actual site is irrelevant.
00:15:26.180They're having this conversation, and Graham asks Flint, have you been there?
00:15:31.900And he said, no, but I've seen the work on it.
00:15:34.480And this right here, as he was speaking confidently about it, it speaks to the difference between a mainstream view and what Graham Hancock does, one of the differences.
00:15:45.760And that is that while Flint Dibble believes that it is perfectly okay for him to not understand a place, to not go to a place and understand how humans live there.
00:15:57.860These are all locations where humans lived.
00:15:59.940They lived, they worshipped, they died, they prayed, they fought, they did everything that humans do.
00:16:07.820And Graham Hancock is much more connected to the human side of this, while people like Flint Dibble are oftentimes, especially Flint Dibble as an individual, but academics like him, they're over-socialized to the point where they are looking at these sites strictly or almost entirely through the lens of the academic field.
00:16:28.880And so, you know, one thing that Graham Hancock often talks about is shamanism and animism.
00:16:41.180He doesn't usually use the word animism, but I would use the word animism, which is more broad.
00:16:45.140And most early human cultures are animistic.
00:16:49.320And one of the basic tenets of animism is that they believe that all humans, and this is in many forms, it comes in many forms on every continent, I guess, except Antarctica, unless you want to get really, really freaky with it.
00:17:37.500Energy, or some spirit, something that is inherent to all people, animals, objects, rocks, mountains, trees, everything has this energy.
00:17:53.040For the Eastern Algonquins, this was called Manatau.
00:17:55.720For the Polynesians, and in the Bible, it's called Mana.
00:17:58.860It's, I forget what the name for the Celts is, but all of these early cultures have this idea.
00:18:06.540And whether they were connected by some ancient civilization or not, this seems to be an all-encompassing idea that humans living before modern,
00:18:20.100and when it's not really even modern, but even like classical, BC, essentially, all humans have this no matter where you go.
00:18:29.780The best way that I would describe this in a way that people understand is through Star Wars' idea of midichlorians.
00:18:39.060Midichlorians are in all things, all living things.
00:18:41.920It also includes all dead and non-living things, usually for animism, but these are in all things.
00:18:49.540And this type of thinking, which is pervasive in all human cultures up to a certain point, is often ignored.
00:18:57.200And so Flint Dibble doesn't believe that he needs to walk around Sasquehanna and feel the energy, the Manatau, the Mana of a place to understand what it is.
00:24:36.940That brings me to kind of this conversation that I'd like to open up.
00:24:40.580You know, we're talking about people that are in the field versus people that are theorizing who won't get off their asses and go see a thing.
00:24:47.580The general public, we are the we won't get off our asses and go and see a thing.
00:24:52.920And so one of the examples that I think fits that description so aptly is, you know, ancient aliens, let's say, right?
00:25:02.220It's like we're sitting down and we are enjoying season after season after season, countless episodes of these people telling us that every megalithic structure that they can possibly put their finger on was created by aliens in some way, shape or form.
00:25:14.800And look, if you want to tell me that it's aliens, I will argue with you about the definition of alien.
00:25:20.300But I'm not so certain that that's not applicable, right?
00:25:23.320Maybe there is something to that or some sort of advanced technology we have had on this show before Timothy Albarino, who I guess would consider himself an adventurer, but also an archaeologist.
00:25:33.980He spends a great deal of time in Peru exploring Machu Picchu and the other megalithic structures that are out there.
00:25:40.300And he tells a fascinating story about what the government of Peru will tell you, you know, the people that are responsible for overseeing tour guides and things of that nature.
00:25:49.400Now, these people have been, it's my understanding, they're fed up with this ancient aliens narrative.
00:25:56.560They get a lot of, what would you call it, tourism that is birthed from this ancient alien craze that's going on.
00:26:04.700Now, they will tell you that the Inca built the structures and there's, you know, it's a mystery how they leveraged and moved these stones, but otherwise that's who they attributed to.
00:26:15.180But there are people that I guess you would consider native that believe themselves to be descendants of the Inca, although even that gets a little bit strange because it seems that the Inca were an entirely different people.
00:26:25.340But they say that the story goes, and this is just a story, but one that we certainly find fascinating, a race of giants actually built their megalithic structures.
00:26:38.120And what's very interesting about that story is that these giants were not benign.
00:26:44.600They become hostile, cannibalistic even, killing each other and eating the humans, and that their overarching sort of head god sent floodwaters to kill them.
00:26:55.780And it's very interesting because you need only look at the Bible and the story of Noah to get a very similar story and one that you find.
00:27:02.760And I know this delves into the Graham Hancock territory about these massive floods that seemingly took place all over the world.
00:27:09.640Or I don't know if he says all over the world, but certainly in the places that he is studying.
00:27:13.540And I just wonder, with all of that, right, we're talking about ancient aliens, we're talking about giants potentially having done this, maybe there was some sort of technology that was lost.
00:27:24.800A lot of people theorize that it's a harmonics-based frequency technology to move these stones.
00:27:29.100Where, in your studies, what do you think, let's not even go towards what you believe created these structures, but where do you place those things in the grand scheme of things?
00:27:40.200Ancient aliens, giants, you know, lost frequency technology, are those even viable options as to the building of these?
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00:29:59.520They look at it in a certain way, and then other archaeologists don't believe that they themselves need to go to the site to understand what it is, and they'll just read the published material.
00:30:17.420We talk a lot about indigenous myths, and the word indigenous has become quite politicized.
00:30:22.520Today, like, an example is the, there's the Sami, and the Sami are a people, they're a Finno-Ugric people related to the culture of Hungary and Finland, as well as some Central Asian people, and the Sami are considered an indigenous people.
00:30:40.280And even though they've been in Scandinavia, they've inhabited the northern parts of Scandinavia, and they weren't really, like, part of the whole Scandinavian nation-states until nation-states became a thing in the 19th century.
00:30:55.900And there was, you know, there's movement between these peoples on the edges in this area, but the Sami and other indigenous people are defined by modern archaeology much more in line with their subsistence strategy and what they do, rather than being, you know, the original people.
00:31:14.980The English are indigenous to England, but they're not considered an indigenous people.
00:31:20.580And when we talk about indigenous myths, and you're talking about the flood myth, you know, this flood myth shows up in all these different cultures across the world, and there's something to that.
00:31:32.900And modern archaeology will tell you that they do want to listen to indigenous people, but in practice, it's much more selective than that.
00:31:39.300And it's indigenous people in a certain definition, whereas they won't consider the Bible an extension of indigenous myths, but it is.
00:31:50.100And while indigenous myths may have, you know, they may have fantastical stories in them that may or may not be literally true, there's often truth in them in certain ways, and things are changed over time.
00:32:03.540And there's plenty of study in what I do is mostly cultural anthropology, which is the study of culture.
00:32:09.960And this is much more accepted in cultural anthropology, that these stories change over time, and they have truth in them.
00:32:15.520So an example of that is Rapa Nui, also called Easter Island.
00:32:19.820I tend to just use the indigenous names for them, but I'll use both for clarity.
00:32:24.840Rapa Nui had this legend that these Moai heads were walked to their final spots.
00:32:33.540And that doesn't make any sense, because these are massive stone statues.
00:32:37.460And for a long time, modern archaeology and modern academia would explain how they moved these with rollers.
00:32:45.320They're explaining them in a way that makes sense to their own culture.
00:32:48.540But what they found eventually was that what likely happened is that these stone statues were walked, just like the myth says.
00:32:56.880And we don't know if they were actually, and I'll explain what I mean in a second.
00:33:02.920We don't know if like, there's certain stuff now, there's evidence like Graham Hancock brought up in the new ancient apocalypse season that there are bananas from 3,000 years ago in the archaeological record on Rapa Nui.
00:33:33.840And that comes from a professor who I really respect of cultural anthropology who used to have a ritual where he would eat a banana every class, before every class.
00:33:50.220And while rolling on rollers makes sense, if you're thinking about it from a modern engineering perspective, it doesn't make sense when you consider a lot of these are many tons and they would just crush these logs.
00:34:01.860But it makes sense as a possible way that they would do it.
00:34:04.940That's not in line with this indigenous myth.
00:34:09.240So, when you consider walking, you're going left and right with your feet.
00:34:14.420What you can do with these giant statues, and this makes a lot more sense when you look around Rapa Nui and you find a lot of these statues, a lot of these Moai statues are lying broken.
00:34:26.220And if the statue is lying down, being moved on rollers, how the fuck would they ever be falling over and broken?
00:34:35.140But if you wrap cords or rope around the base of the Moai and with a team of men and maybe women pulling them back and forth in teams, they will walk.
00:34:53.140Not in a literal sense, but in a way that they're moving left and right in a ritual where people are working as a team, as humans do, to move these statues to their final place.
00:35:06.560And it's believed now through experimental archaeology, from archaeologists, that that is how they were moved to their final spots.
00:35:15.600So, these indigenous myths often have truth in them, and they're used almost weaponized in a way, which is very disrespectful to the people, in my opinion, that believe in these myths.
00:35:33.100And a lot of these indigenous myths include things that are more fantastical, and these things will just be dismissed while they'll, excuse me, accuse Graham Hancock of being racist, anti-indigenous, anti-Semitic for some reason.
00:35:47.860I don't even know where that one comes from, but they do it.
00:35:50.100By, because he, because he has an alternative view, even though, you know, a lot of these indigenous myths include fantastical things of, like, they'll often talk about people from other worlds coming down.
00:36:04.040It's very common, but these are just dismissed.
00:36:10.080What do you think about the idea that, I saw recently a post that was describing how to make an impure limestone, and that the way you could do this is, essentially, it's just a mixture of old ash plus fresh ash and water.
00:36:24.180And what you do is you create, essentially, what he described as a dirty limestone.
00:36:27.860But he speculated that maybe the ancients figured out a way to purify this process, or at least refine it in such a way that you can create a much, a much purer version of limestone.
00:36:40.140So there seems to be this precedent all of a sudden.
00:36:43.220It's an option that's on the table for casting a lot of these structures that are very mysterious to us.
00:36:48.140Do you think that that was utilized at all by ancients in a way that maybe nowadays we're looking at it and we're going, I don't know how they did this?
00:36:54.940Yeah, so I, with a lot of this stuff, I really believe that, you know, I don't necessarily believe in everything that Graham Hancock is saying.
00:37:07.580I don't know if it's true or not, but I do think he asks important questions and brings up important evidence that should be included.
00:37:15.300So the idea that the stones were cast is very, very attractive to me when you consider the size of these stones in certain places.
00:37:23.580There's, there's a lot of independent researchers, there's, there's probably archaeologists doing this as well, but there's a guy named, a Hungarian guy named Marcel Foti on, on X, who does experiments with this.
00:37:37.700And he, he casts stones in experiments with different methods.
00:37:43.700Um, and I think that's very possible, but what's, what's more important to me is that one thing that archaeologists will tell you and anthropologists in general, anthropology in North America is a field that has four subfields.
00:37:59.540Archaeology, cultural anthropology, which is most of what I do, um, and then biological anthropology and linguistic anthropology, which I know, I know less about those two.
00:38:09.220But we're talking about, but we're talking about, but we're talking about cultural anthropology and archaeology, which is, are the two that I know the most about.
00:38:15.220And in those fields, you know, they'll tell you that contrary to archaeology and, and cultural anthropology in the past, that there is not a single linear trajectory for human culture.
00:38:28.320That, you know, that, you know, in the past, they believed that people went from, they went from bands to tribes, and, and bands are like a much smaller version.
00:38:41.520Band today can, can mean a lot of things.
00:38:43.420Like the, I was speaking to an Ojibwe man, a, who is from a, a band of Native Americans, and it has thousands of people.
00:38:49.620But bands in the past, uh, by the anthropological definition, meant a, a group of, uh, extended family groups that work together and are often, most of the time, um, also part of a larger tribe that would meet at certain times of the year, equinoxes, um, things like that.
00:39:09.360And, and, you know, for a long time, and this was heavily influenced by, uh, Western traditions and Western culture is that, you know, it's almost like if you've ever played a paradox game or like civilization, that you, you have a trajectory of civilization where you get writing, and then you get the wheel, and you get metallurgy, and you move along this path.
00:39:35.240And archaeologists and alternative people agree on this, and there's plenty of evidence for this.
00:39:41.420What's more true is that there are plenty of ways that any type of people can interact with their environment, and through what is available to them, they create, uh, solutions to different problems that they have.
00:40:02.060And a lot of people talk about the Aztecs, the Incas, and any, any group of people, and they'll say, okay, they didn't have the wheel.
00:40:10.360They didn't have widespread metallurgy.
00:40:12.520Well, no shit, they didn't have the wheel.
00:40:15.140The wheel shows up in the archaeological record in conjunction with its use with pack animals, with large megafauna.
00:40:22.820Why would the Aztecs do it when the Aztecs don't have large megafauna?
00:40:27.640Because somehow all the megafauna in North America died over the course of 3,000 years in this massive extinction event that is not explained.
00:40:35.180It used to be explained by Clovis first, because relatively advanced humans come in, and, you know, 13,000 years ago, and then this, and then this extinction starts where, oh, it makes sense.
00:40:46.180They hunted down all these animals, they came in with, you know, late Pleistocene technology, they were more advanced, um, and these animals did not have a chance of evolving over tens of thousands in Africa, hundreds of thousands, millions of years of evolution to evolve alongside animals.
00:41:02.940So it made sense then, but Clovis first is dead.
00:41:13.140What does matter is that the wheel means nothing to a people like the Aztecs if they don't have pack animals, if they don't have megafauna to pull these things.
00:41:22.080And when you look at the Bantu expansion, where they're using the wheel, when you look at the Yamnaya expansion, where they're using the wheel, they're using it in conjunction with large pack animals, and you find that a lot of Native Americans in the Western Hemisphere did understand the wheel, because they have it in their toys.
00:41:45.080So they know, we know that they use the wheel, but they didn't, it doesn't mean that they're not advanced, because they didn't use a larger version of the wheel.
00:41:56.580But it does make sense when you consider that they don't have the other things associated with this technology.
00:42:01.540And then you look at the Incas, they're up in the mountains, they're in a specific environment, they have specific ways of looking at their environment.
00:42:11.840Why would they use the wheel when they are, you know, it's up and down, the wheel doesn't help them.
00:42:17.700They have llamas, they could have used those to pull the wheel.
00:42:20.700Aztecs and Mayans don't have llamas, but no one's going to argue that the Aztecs and the Incas, or the Aztecs, the Incas, the Mayans were not advanced.
00:43:03.440But then when you move past that, and you understand that maybe a culture where they, we look at the basics of a certain thing.
00:43:13.440And one of the things that's very, very dirty for modern archaeology is this idea of moving things with sound waves.
00:43:19.500But you also know that, and I'm not saying I believe in all this stuff about sound waves, but what I do believe is that we understand certain things.
00:43:30.040We understand that at a certain pitch, you can break a glass, a wine glass or something with the pitch.
00:43:36.760So we understand there's something going on there, and there's some sort of movement, vibrations that can happen.
00:43:42.140So the idea, the hypothesis that a culture that concentrates on something different, they don't concentrate on wheels, they don't concentrate on metallurgy.
00:43:53.680They have other values and other ways of interacting with their environment that might just be random, or they might be based on the environment.
00:44:02.700But we know that there are things that we don't understand.
00:44:06.240And just because we don't understand it doesn't mean that it's not possible.
00:44:09.700So there's plenty of ways to think about how they may have honed this technology over many, many years.
00:44:21.640And there's a lot of hubris, and I would say Eurocentrism, in the idea that these people wouldn't have been advanced in ways that we are not,
00:44:33.080and understood things that we do not understand, even if they weren't advanced in other ways.
00:44:38.560They don't need to be Mayans or Incas or Aztecs and be advanced even by the metrics of modern archaeology to understand that they could have known something else.
00:44:49.960They could have, you know, you could be a tribe, and you could be better at something more than modern technology.
00:44:59.500You could understand something better if you hone that thing.
00:45:02.100And there's an extraordinary amount of hubris in that.
00:45:05.060Well, I mean, yes, and it's birthed a lot more questions.
00:45:09.700But I do think that I personally, you know, being obviously in the outside of this field, having no, you know, data to back any of my nonsense,
00:45:18.920really enjoy the idea of an intervention of some sort.
00:45:23.840You know, and what I mean by that is oftentimes, you know, we're talking about agriculture or metallurgy.
00:45:29.060And on this show, we talk a lot about how various ancient civilizations will attribute.
00:45:34.580In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you.
00:46:51.340In other words, like the fauna that's available to pull the tools that you need to do these things, the quarries and whether or not they're available to draw the stones from, different things of that nature?
00:47:01.920Or is there something else at play that we're missing?
00:47:04.460Because it seems that some cultures were called to build things that are otherwise impractical.
00:47:10.840And I know that we, as a modern civilization, will do that.
00:47:13.860There's nothing that says that we need to build the Empire State Building, right?
00:47:17.680We don't have to build one of the tallest buildings in the world.
00:47:22.460But there is something in the West, in modern civilization, in our culture, that calls some of us to build something that is awe-inspiring.
00:47:32.800And so I'm not discounting that there's just a human drive in some to do this sort of a thing.
00:47:39.900But it is fascinating to me that in 2024, you can still find tribes that go, no, we're totally fine.
00:48:01.700And that is actually perfect for the point that I want to make.
00:48:05.740Because, you know, when we talk about uncontacted tribes, the two places that I think people think about and talk about the most are North Sentinel Island and some deep tribes in the Amazon.
00:48:19.940And this is perfect because it lets me bring up indigenous issues, which is something that I'm very passionate about.
00:48:26.600So North Sentinel Island, people call them uncontacted.
00:49:42.540And that is a difference in values, and it's based on their own experience.
00:49:48.500If you go to the Amazon, there are also not really uncontacted tribes, unless they're really somewhere where we don't know.
00:49:55.580But even if there are those people that are possibly uncontacted by modern society, they will have contact with other indigenous tribes that are more of, you know, it's not a binary.
00:50:11.580You'll find if you go into Papua New Guinea, which is a cultural anthropologist paradise because of the diversity there of culture, language, and subsistence strategy, you'll find people wearing, you know, an eagle's jersey or something living in otherwise traditional methods.
00:50:31.120And those people may have contact with tribes that are living in completely, completely, you know, traditional methods who are, you know, not in contact.
00:50:45.620There's a spectrum of indigenous people and what they're doing.
00:50:51.040And there's even, like, there's tribes people that are living in the Amazon and on New Guinea where they will go to the modern city, which is a modern city in one of these countries, Brazil, Ecuador, Venezuela, Papua New Guinea, Indonesia for the other half of New Guinea, who will live six months out of the year in a traditional village living in mostly traditional methods.
00:51:16.340And then six months out of the year, they're in the city and they're living with modern people.
00:51:59.420I love to read all, or the guy was a leftist.
00:52:01.700I love to read all sorts of different varying opinions.
00:52:04.080And there's a lot of stuff in there about North American tribes choosing not to live within modern society, choosing not to, and having, in fact, cultural rules, cultural customs that prevent them from settling down because they don't want to settle down.
00:52:23.920And whether that's because maybe in the past they were settled down, and then something bad happened, and then there were cultural ideas that were imbued into the culture to make them not want to do that, or whether they just were never settled down in a certain way.
00:52:42.880It could be one or the other, or it could be both.
00:52:46.300You know, there's things like the Mississippian culture that collapses.
00:52:49.200The Mississippian culture is very broad, but you have, like, Cahokia, which is abandoned around 1350, the time of the Little Ice Age prior to European colonization.
00:52:58.480And so there were settled people living in cities in North America, and then a lot of those people became hunter-gatherers.
00:53:08.480I've got to organize my thoughts in my head here for a second.
00:53:16.480There are – there's nothing inherently good or inherently attractive to human beings about creating massive cities.
00:53:26.560In fact, there's lots of reasons to not want to do that.
00:53:29.280And this is even covered in Yuval Noah Harari's book.
00:53:32.720I forget the name of it, but it's the one about history.
00:53:35.600And the one about history as opposed to the current era or the future, which he's also written.
00:53:40.700All right, up for Decker, and then I'll continue.
00:53:46.460So in that book, he talks about this archaeology of looking at how nutrition actually goes down for the majority of the population when they begin being settled.
00:54:00.060But unfortunately, what also happens is that the people who decide to settle for whatever reason – you know, it could be aliens, it could be Nephilim, it could be just human beings, that's it – they decide to settle down.
00:54:27.320Okay, they will have a larger density of population.
00:54:32.500They will have – as opposed to hunter-gatherers, they have a larger density of population, and they're able to expand from there.
00:54:41.600And over time, they just conquer everything.
00:54:44.040And there's a slow march towards that.
00:54:46.640Because the hunter-gatherers, they're just going to leave the land.
00:54:48.940Because if you're already semi-nomad, you're not going to, in some Vercingetorix-like resistance, have all of your people slaughtered because you're not settled.
00:55:03.020You're going to find a new place to live because that's preferable to having all of your people slaughtered.
00:55:06.780But over time, that's going to just – the settled people are going to win.
00:55:13.040And I had another point, but I forgot what it was.
00:55:17.420Well, I do have just an interesting point to make about this, which is – I mean, I – and I'll let you answer this, but I want to finish this line of thought.
00:55:27.500But the question that you could answer when I'm done is the practice of sacrifice, which is something that is seemingly consistent with the human experience for as far back as we can look.
00:55:42.720Is it prevalent in tribes that display what you just described, which is the unwillingness to settle down and to be nomadic and to continue moving on?
00:55:53.680Is the practice of human sacrifice prevalent within those tribes as it is?
00:56:01.080And I can understand how the scale would be dialed up dramatically once you have a tribe that settles in one location because it just seems that along with these megalithic structures also comes the notion of mass human sacrifice, right?
00:56:15.220With this idea that the Aztecs were engaging in that, that the Mayans were engaging in that.
00:56:19.780You know, my knowledge on this is peripheral, but a quick Google search will tell you that the Inca also engaged in that and that they seemingly did it a lot more with women and children, or at least that's what the Google results told me.
00:56:32.760And I just wonder, is that something that flourishes and becomes a centerpiece to a culture that builds the way that these cultures do?
00:56:43.080Or is that something that is also common within nomadic tribes that just becomes of a much larger scale, just like their civilization does when they decide to stay put?
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00:57:22.760Yeah, so, yes, it's also common in nomadic hunter-gatherers. It is.
00:57:31.560And I think, like, you know, there's all these stories about ritualistic cannibalism, is what I'll say, for these.
00:57:42.100And I'm very specific, ritualistic cannibalism.
00:57:44.800There's, like, the law of the sea, right, which is this idea of sailors.
00:57:49.560Sailors, there is ritual and there is custom towards what you do and how you choose who gets eaten if you don't have any food so the rest can survive.
00:58:42.920It's not even really – I wouldn't call that an accurate representation of Catholicism as much as it is kind of a way of masking and ensuring that your original belief system survived.
00:58:55.360And so you adapted it to Catholicism so that it wouldn't be persecuted.
00:59:01.300I mean there was – if you go to the 1500s, you find a Cornish rebellion against Protestantism because explicitly the Protestantism was trying to remove the Catholicism.
00:59:18.940And the Catholicism was what was protecting these ancient beliefs of the Celtic people in Cornwall as well as in Ireland, the same thing.
00:59:27.940And there's a resistance towards this Protestantism.
01:00:02.520And there's a lot more diversity when you're talking about – of language, of culture in – so like on New Guinea, this behind me, this thing, this shield.
01:00:12.980This is an asthmat shield made by the asthmat people of Western Papua, which is administered by Indonesia.
01:00:20.300But the people are not Indonesian who are in – they're not Austronesian.
01:00:25.940They're related to Austronesians if they're not Austronesian.
01:00:29.260But they're Melanesian on Western Papua.
01:00:32.200The asthmat people were traditionally ritualistic cannibals, and they did sacrifice humans.
01:00:51.640This is to consume the energy of the person they're eating, whether it's a war captive or whether it's their own people for some reason.
01:01:00.020It is to consume their life force, their energy.
01:01:04.600And this is extraordinarily common on different places.
01:01:08.700And we don't know how much is true of what the Romans wrote about the Celts or how much is propaganda.
01:01:16.880But it makes sense within other peoples of similar subsistence that they would have been practicing something like this.
01:01:23.900And they, in fact, say that they did practice something like this.
01:01:26.940I think that actually probably holds a lot of water because, in my opinion, the fae lore, the Celtic lore, and their deities, they line up really well with the deities of other cultures that, in my opinion, would have been the same thing as the fallen angels.
01:01:42.460I mean, on this show, we believe that they were actual entities, still are actual entities, and were just sort of placing themselves as kings over various cultures.
01:01:53.380And so, yeah, it's my understanding of the Celtics.
01:01:57.120I mean, there was even a movie recently.
01:01:58.440We've discussed it on the show, but there's a movie called Watchers.
01:02:02.640And what it ends up being is they are, you know, spoiler alert, but they're trapped in the forest with these entities that are later exposed to be the fae of the Celtic mythology.
01:02:15.060And the ways in which they mirror the watchers or the fallen from the Bible, they're directly parallel.
01:02:22.860And so if you start doing a deep dive in that, you realize, oh, yeah, once again, you have another precedent of not only these entities being so similar in nature, but also that they seem to demand from their people some form of human sacrifice.
01:02:37.180It's just a tale as old as time that repeats itself throughout history.
01:02:40.880And you have in Catholicism and Christianity in general, and I was talking to David Gornowski recently about this, who's a great guy, absolutely incredible information from that dude.
01:02:52.740And he was speaking about this idea of what Jesus says to Peter or Paul, get behind me, Satan.
01:03:00.900In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you.
01:03:31.580And why would you want Satan behind you?
01:03:34.260And this and what he was speaking about, his opinion, which I think is a, if not the truth, it's a very, very good argument, is that when we talk about what Satan is, when we talk about the crusades that happened, not the crusades against Islam, but the much more numerous and common crusades against, for lack of a better term, paganism within Europe itself,
01:04:03.800Most notably in the Baltic region of what's now Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and the surrounding area, you know, those are the last ones to get conquered.
01:04:14.420And we're talking about much earlier here with Get Behind Me, Satan.
01:04:19.320There are ways of retaining the ritual significance of sacrifice in general, not just human sacrifice, but in this case, yes, human sacrifice within Catholicism, within Christianity.
01:04:34.100For a long time, Catholicism was Christianity.
01:04:36.040So it's Catholicism, but in modern terms, it's Christianity.
01:04:40.240So when you take the, oh gosh, when you take communion, you eat symbolically the body and you drink symbolically the blood of Christ.
01:04:54.480Get Behind Me, Satan, Get Behind Me, these ideas of the past, of eating people.
01:05:15.900And, you know, I'd say that's probably better, but I'm saying that's better from a Western perspective.
01:05:23.060As an American, I'm saying that's better, that we, that's my understanding.
01:05:27.480But many people would, many people of the past and in certain places today, very few places today, would argue that, no, it's fine.
01:05:35.440You have to consume the actual life force of the person.
01:05:38.000You have to get your Kuru brain worms or whatever.
01:05:42.040Well, I think what that actually suggests, and it makes a pretty strong argument, that this realm that we inhabit, the ways in which you win, whatever that means, is through sacrifice.
01:05:54.640And what's, what's fascinating about Christianity is that it seems to be the only one where the head deity sacrificed himself for his followers or for everyone, really, for humankind.
01:06:07.820But also, in order so that, sorry to interrupt you, but in order so that nobody else has to.
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01:07:30.100Biltong is not just food, but a way of life.
01:07:36.160There still is an element of sacrifice that's asked of you, but it's to sacrifice your urge to sin.
01:07:41.480You know, sacrifice these worldly things that call to you your urge to drug use or your urge to hurt your neighbor or any of these things that would be coincidentally corrosive and detrimental to a culture and a society.
01:07:57.420You're asked to sacrifice those things.
01:08:01.140There's a sacrifice aspect in the sense that Jesus Christ died for our sins so that we no longer had to sacrifice, but there still is.
01:08:08.820It's no longer a flesh and blood sacrifice, but a sacrifice of your urge to sin that is being asked of you, which I think is very interesting because –
01:08:16.700But it's just interesting because that sentiment echoes true.
01:08:26.420He's a friend for a minute, probably longer than I even know you.
01:08:29.200But, yeah, wow, I never thought about that idea of communion.
01:08:34.600Of it's literally cannibalism, but it's symbolic cannibalism.
01:08:39.600And then, I mean, we just did an episode.
01:08:40.980We got removed from YouTube for talking about a certain something chrome where it's basically cannibalism, but, I mean, more of just a blunt.
01:09:14.600It's like, no, it makes perfect sense because we have examples of it on every single continent in world history, and anybody who argues against that is ignorant.
01:09:22.820Whether or not it is happening is another topic of conversation, but it's 100% feasible that somebody is doing that because that's consuming the life force of somebody.
01:09:31.480I would love to see you guys talk to David Gornoski.
01:09:35.480We are – actually, this Friday and Saturday, we have somebody doing a presentation on that specific compound that's in your blood and released when you're in a high state of fear, and then you could smoke someone's pineal gland in order to get it or drink it, whatever.
01:09:53.700If they were doing this before, I think it's just naive for us.
01:09:57.100I mean, I would say mainstream academics would look at these people and say this is an antiquated way of doing things and these people are backwards, but if they were doing it for this long, there has to be some kind of benefit to it.
01:10:11.540Nothing new under the sun, and they're doing the same thing.
01:10:13.760I don't want to get into it, but even these emails that are leaked, the names of these deities are the same names that have been there since the beginning of time.
01:10:22.060It's – I would – if you put a gun to my head and said make a bet, my money is all in on – it's still happening.
01:10:28.640We're still doing these blood sacrifices.
01:10:43.320When we're talking about ancient practices like this, and I'm not – not just sacrifice, but any sort of ancient practices, for the most of human history, you know, people are living in the same environment, in perpetuity, in harmony.
01:10:59.220And when I say harmony, I don't mean that it's peaceful.
01:11:01.180I mean that they're living in a sustainable way and not sustainable in the modern way of like, you know, of –
01:11:14.180Not going green, but being – having a sustainable culture that you live the same way that your grandfather did, that your great-grandfather did, that your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather did.
01:11:25.740But you're living in a way where you interact with the land in a way that there doesn't need to be an advance of technology, an advance of methods.
01:11:38.120You're just doing the same thing, and you're – there's this cycle to it, and I'm sure you guys understand exactly what I'm talking about.
01:11:46.740There is a cycle to it where you're just continuing to do the same thing over and over, and you're appreciative of everything.
01:11:56.440There are rituals in all these cultures associated with when you're killing an animal and having respect for that deer or for that antelope, whatever it is.
01:12:07.480These show up not just in North American Native Americans.
01:12:10.000Most of our examples come from that because that's where we live, and those people were living in North America in this way when Europeans came, many of them, not all of them, but many of them.
01:12:22.900But even past that, even past the level of hunter-gatherers, all of these ways that people interact with their environment.
01:12:30.820When you talk about something like the Mediterranean diet and you talk about ancient Chinese medicine and different ways of healing people, what they often find is that there are properties associated with those diets, with these seasonal diets, that over time, as these diets are created, what people are eating naturally, or really not naturally,
01:12:59.200but through human selection without an understanding, without an understanding of a scientific understanding.
01:13:05.900They don't need to go to a lab and test and prove.
01:13:08.800They just know that this herb treats a certain thing, and it doesn't always work, but neither does modern medicine, and neither does modern food.
01:13:15.860Modern food does a worse job of it, no matter what Michelle Obama tells you.
01:13:19.160And these diets, regardless of if we understand it or not, these were created through tradition over time, like the comment said, to solve these problems.
01:13:29.760And there are scientific methods today that prove that they do that, that prove that a lot of these methods absolutely worked, even without the explicit understanding scientifically through our modern understanding of why they worked, why these diets are...
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01:14:19.600...are feeding all of our nutritional needs, and in very diverse ways.
01:14:24.780If you go to the Inuit, the Inuit are eating almost an entirely meat diet in certain cases, but they're getting all of their nutrition anyway because they're eating these fatty animals that provide the nutrients in different parts of the animals.
01:14:39.940You know, the liver, the eyes, they give different nutritional needs.
01:14:46.480And over time, the diet that people are eating naturally meets their nutritional needs.
01:14:52.200So you don't have to have an explicit understanding.
01:14:54.780And for most of human history, when people were far healthier than they were today by any metric, even by modern standards, they were able to do it better than the fucking food pyramid.
01:15:04.160The dumbest invention funded by people that wanted to sell you sugar.
01:15:12.800I'd like to pull this conversation a little bit of a different direction, and I completely understand if your studies haven't really bought you to this topic.
01:15:21.980But I would like to get your opinions on—it seems that so many ancient cultures have mythology that involves giants.
01:15:33.160And to this day, we talked about it a little bit earlier when it came to the Peruvians and their megalithic structures.
01:15:40.900But even today, you have these whispers, and you can find articles of people claiming to have dug up giant skeletons that are then whisked away by the Smithsonian, never to be seen again, never put on display.
01:15:54.940But there is no shortage of these anecdotal stories.
01:15:59.440Certainly, there are questionable sightings now and again of some gigantic humanoid.
01:16:07.160I know a lot of them became popular over the past year, I remember specifically.
01:16:11.560Even one in particular that was streamed on TikTok by a guy who seemingly realized he stepped in shit when he recorded that and allegedly got on the Fed's radar.
01:16:25.080And shortly after this saga that unfolded on Twitter of this guy freaking out publicly that he recorded something and then suddenly was being visited by black SUVs, the guy dies.
01:16:34.660And, you know, you could say whatever you want about that.
01:19:19.880I saw that episode a long time ago, and then I started doing some deep dives into it.
01:19:24.060And it seems like in the area of like a five-square-acre property – I mean, this guy has hundreds of acres where he's doing gold mining.
01:19:33.160But in this small, like, square acre, five acres, he's able to melt down the permafrost there and just continually find bones, giant bones of what he's describing as mammoth.
01:20:29.640And it's true that the government would have access to it.
01:20:32.880And the reason for that is something called NAGPRA, which is the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act.
01:20:42.040And I actually did a lot of work on this, on NAGPRA itself, which is a good law.
01:20:47.020NAGPRA itself had a good intention behind it.
01:20:49.500It might have had some nefarious purpose behind it, but there was a lot of grave robbing going on, a lot of grave robbing specifically of Native American goods, which is disgusting, Native American grave goods and of bodies.
01:21:00.640There's even a rumor that George W. Bush's grandfather or great-grandfather stole the skull of Geronimo, which would be – in Geronimo, if you don't know, was one of the most famous Native American war leaders.
01:21:15.060And a lot of mana, a lot of manatow, a lot of power, a lot of energy in that skull based on who that man is.
01:21:22.720And there's lots of reasons to believe that the elites in our country and in the Western world in general do believe in these spiritual things.
01:21:32.400You know, you can find the public footage that Alex Jones got in the early 2000s, and I'm sure you guys have seen this,
01:21:40.360of them taking videos of the elites worshiping ancient owl gods, Moloch and Baal, that are associated with human sacrifice.
01:26:53.700But now that doesn't matter, even though modern archaeology is bringing up that there is a possibility that they came from the East by boats.
01:27:05.020And there is a stated and understood hypothesis that they came via boats, which, you know, we were going to talk.
01:27:12.660We haven't talked about it at all, which is fine.
01:27:14.420But Flint Dibble and his theories, there's nothing stopping the federal government from taking these remains,
01:27:26.340taking any cultural objects found in the ground, anything found in the ground that's deemed to be older than 1,500,
01:27:32.120and in practice even past it, but we're really talking about stuff earlier than 1,500, 1,492 here,
01:28:19.620Hitler's looking for the spear of destiny, things like this.
01:28:21.860It's like we understand that there's a lot of power in these objects and our government is just straight up hoarding it,
01:28:27.640but that's actually a good, I did not know that about the administration.
01:28:31.320So I'm going to pay attention to who is, well, assuming Trump wins, who gets that spot when Trump comes in.
01:28:39.440If that remains the same, I think that might tell us a little bit about the underwork, the underbelly of this kind of like weird esoteric side that's going on.
01:28:47.620Because it's not just, I don't think the government's doing this just to hide history.
01:28:51.500I think that they're gathering themselves.
01:30:20.280The federally recognized Native American representatives get to, um, make their call on it.
01:30:27.680Um, and, you know, this would be speculation of a quid pro quo, but because these Native American representatives are direct clients of the federal government, um, you know, who knows what could be said between a representative of the Department of the Interior, which is over the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
01:30:45.240Um, whether there's something going on where there's like, hey, you know, say something about this, or maybe we cut your funding, maybe we cause problems for you.
01:30:55.760You know, people call these Native American tribes sovereign, but they're not sovereign.
01:30:59.860Sovereign means that, you know, traditionally sovereign is that the United States government is sovereign in, in theory.
01:31:07.460They don't, they don't, uh, adhere to any, uh, super national organization.
01:31:13.460And, you know, we, we can talk about the UN, the WEF that might have a say in the U.S. government, but in theory, they're sovereign, but both in theory and in practice, Native American tribes are not sovereign.
01:31:24.780Everything about them is the antithesis of sovereign because they exist at the behest of and by the rules of the federal government.
01:31:33.360Um, if the federal government decides for some reason that they don't want to give them their recognition and they want to change the way, which they're not, they're not going to do that right now.
01:31:43.260Um, but if they were to do that, what are they going to do?
01:31:50.700Just like regular people are not going to do another uprising, at least in the current environment.
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01:32:51.920Sam, we only have you for a little bit longer, and it was really a question that I wanted to ask you.
01:32:56.040It's been sitting on my mind since we talked earlier about the Easter Island statues or heads and how they walked over in this speculation as to like, well, for a while we accepted the idea that they may have been put on rollers.
01:33:11.380Oftentimes we get caught up in the transportation of these stones and how we did that.
01:33:17.460But one of the things that I think is equally as baffling is the, how would you put this, sort of the constitutional makeup of these megalithic structures when it comes to the individual stones.
01:33:29.260Some of these places exhibit stonework that we don't understand in the way of their dimensionality.
01:33:38.560Meaning they're, they're, they're put together so well that in some cases it said that you couldn't fit a razor blade between them.
01:33:45.960I've seen stones that look like they were placed while they were almost in a, a, a super state of, of, you know, liquid and solid.
01:34:00.000Yeah, and, and, and that's really what it leads to this idea of like casting.
01:34:04.200There are some stones that are put in such a way.
01:34:06.060There are walls that are made that they almost look like puzzles and the way everything fits together is so unbelievable.
01:34:14.000We don't, we certainly don't do that today.
01:34:16.060I mean, if you look to our, um, Gothic cathedrals, those are astounding in the way that they've been developed or the way that they've been created.
01:34:23.680Um, but these are equally as astounding and, you know, like I said, it's not something that you see done today.
01:34:31.040So when it comes to the way these stones fit together, when it comes to your inability to fit even a razor blade between them, um, when it comes to the fact that some of these stones look like they were dropped in place while they were pliable and then settled, um, to, to mesh together perfectly.
01:34:48.180What have you found in your studies that is at least something that's satisfying as to an answer as to how this was done?
01:35:06.840There are plenty of, uh, better people to talk to about, um, the construction of those structures.
01:35:13.120Most like my, my archeology knowledge is, is very much, uh, basic.
01:35:17.600It's, it's, uh, in, in the sense that like a degree in anthropology is a basic understanding of anthropology and in archeological field school is a basic understanding of, uh, of doing archeology.
01:35:32.540Um, a lot more of my knowledge with archeology is in regards to maritime archeology, which we didn't get to get into, which is fine.
01:35:40.120But, um, I, I don't know, but I do know that there are better people to talk to for it.
01:35:45.160And I can probably put you in contact with some of them.
01:35:48.520What is modern archeology's take on that?
01:35:51.100Because I would be, do they have any explanation at all?
01:35:54.420Or is this something that they are willing to admit that they don't know?
01:35:59.080There's very little that they are willing to admit they don't know.
01:36:02.040And, um, I, I, I'm not familiar with what their explanation is for a lot of this stuff, but, um, they, it's my perception that they don't like to speculate.
01:36:13.300Even if they don't understand, um, they like to just, just say, oh, they moved them somehow.
01:37:11.500It's incredible because just standing from the outside, looking in, I think it's become glaringly obvious to everybody who is fascinated by this subject of megalithic structures and what these ancient civilizations, how they did it, why they did it.
01:37:26.000Um, it's very clear that really, and I don't want to be reductive.
01:37:31.940I know that there are a lot of, um, great minds within the academic realm surrounding, uh, uh, you know, ancient architecture and things like that.
01:37:43.800But mostly it's a lot of monopolizing the truth and, uh, and gatekeeping.
01:37:51.300And that became glaringly obvious to me years ago when Graham Hancock first got on the Joe Rogan experience, uh, and started to highlight how, if it goes against the grain, um, academia is likely to toss you out and call you.
01:38:07.020What was the expression that you used earlier, Sam?
01:38:09.380Um, uh, if you're on the outsides, alternative, which is weird because it sounds so, um, you know, an alternative way of thinking.
01:38:18.300Well, that sounds reasonable, but it's actually used more or less as a way to diminish you.
01:38:36.200And this is the same thing they do within the scientific community, too.
01:38:38.600If you should explore anything that is off the beaten path, you're a pseudo-scientist, or this is pseudo-science.
01:38:43.920And I should say that pseudo-archaeology is not a word in the dictionary.
01:38:47.160It is a word that archaeology made, and it is in, um, it's in dictionaries that are, uh, they're not called dictionaries.
01:38:55.920They're called something else, but it's in, it's a term that you will not find in Merriam-Webster, but you will find it in, um, in archaeological definitions.
01:39:05.500Every scientific field has specific definitions for their field, just like legal definitions, that, um, that these words have different, uh, understandings in different fields.
01:39:15.660Uh, legally, they, they might mean something that's very different from the colloquial use, from the, from the standard use.
01:39:22.980Um, so I will, uh, I, I, I put something up on the, um, on the, uh, I presented something that you might want to bring up, which is not about the actual construction themselves, but of the orientation of the, of the, uh, of the construction.
01:39:41.320So the, these are three pyramid compounds on three continents, China, um, Egypt, which is in Africa, China, and Eurasia, and Mexico, um, to, to Tenochtitlan, and, or, or Tewatikon, Tewatikon, whatever.
01:39:57.320Um, whatever. Can't pronounce these words. Nahuatl, whatever, whatever it is. Okay. So you look at Orion's Belt. There are two, there's more constellations that continue to show up, um, which in, in, uh, the Pleiades, I'm forgetting what the Pleiades refers to, but it might be one of these things.
01:40:13.680But Orion's Belt, um, there's Orion's Belt, there's the Big Dipper, and if you look at Orion's Belt here, you look at the orientation, orientation of the stars of Orion's Belt, and also somewhat their size, and then you look at these three pyramid compounds of these three megalithic structures on three different continents.
01:40:33.120It is extraordinarily strange, and, and this is where I'm not drawing any conclusions, but I'm, I'm bringing up, and this is laughed at by modern archaeology, and anything where you're just like.
01:40:44.200Is it really? I thought this was an accepted notion. For those of you who are just listening, we're looking at these three instances of, uh, these pyramids being found at different places across the world that probably would have no contact with each other whatsoever, uh, and then the fourth image is Orion's Belt, and it honestly looks to me like you could lay all four of these images over one another, and that they would be, uh,
01:41:04.720Right. So the idea that these people were in contact with each other is laughed at, and the idea that there's, there's any sort of contact between them is not, it's not something that they believe is proved by archaeology.
01:41:20.940It's not proved by their methods. Archaeology is a proper noun. Archaeology is not what should have a monopoly over the human past. It is one field, and we are in one iteration of time.
01:41:32.640And, and their paradigm exists in 2024 in the current state. Um, I was arguing with somebody, I'm always arguing with people like this, but somebody was trying to tell me that archaeology is like math. One plus one equals two. Go fuck yourself.
01:41:46.000One plus one equals two in outer space. It equals two in China. It equals two in the United States. It equals two in Australia. It equals two 10 million years ago. And you can prove that yourself. You can go prove this fucking theorem from these retards.
01:42:00.000By going to anywhere in the world, and you can pick up one object, and then you can pick up a second object, and that's one plus one equals two. And comparing that to a field, that scientific whatever, that is based on fucking interpretation.
01:42:15.880And you're trying to tell me that that's the same thing as one plus one equals two. You're completely fucking retarded. There's no other way around it. There is no way around it.
01:42:26.800But when you look at this, maybe these people had contact. Maybe it's something deep in human consciousness. I don't fucking know.
01:42:34.500But what I do know is when I look at these megalithic structures, I know that no matter what, all of these cultures, whether—we'll say for a moment, we'll believe there was no contact between these people.
01:42:46.480I don't know whether there was or not. I truly don't.
01:42:48.680But what we do know is that these megalithic structures, which however they fucking built them, which we don't know, as far as they'll claim they know, we really don't.
01:42:58.400But they were caring about the exact same thing because they built these massive structures in this orientation, almost seemingly to the same relative size to each other, coinciding with Orion's belt.
01:43:15.680And I don't know what the fuck that is, but at least I'm willing to say that I don't know.
01:43:19.240You know what that gives me the feeling of, Sam? It feels like we're spending our time—and not that it's not important,
01:43:25.040but we're spending our time digging through the dirt and looking at the minutiae when we should be looking up at something much larger.
01:43:32.720That's what—I mean, that seems to be what they are doing, is there's a much bigger driving force.
01:43:39.240This goes back to the question that I had earlier where we talked about the misnomer of uncontacted tribes.
01:43:44.260But this idea that it seems that, you know, this is just—you know, the mystery of why does a civilization build a megalithic structure is not something that's easily explainable.
01:43:56.440And there is, in my opinion—this is just me speaking—a tremendous spiritual aspect to this.
01:44:04.220This is the—seemingly, from where I'm sitting, like I've said several times throughout this episode, this is not something that I've got a deep body of knowledge in,
01:44:10.820but from where I'm sitting, the major driving force behind the massive undertaking of building these megalithic structures is something spiritual.
01:44:22.080I don't think you can downplay the size of the spiritual element here.
01:44:25.300Well, and not to drag us even deeper, but as you were talking about the idea of pseudo-archaeology,
01:44:32.600one of our favorite guests and somebody that we bring up ad nauseum, Jerry Marzinski,
01:44:36.820this idea of pseudo-psychology is also labeled on him where he has some theories that schizophrenia is possibly not just hallucinations,
01:47:45.620So, schizophrenia, what I often discuss, not so much recently, but I'm glad I'm being reminded of it, is that, like, the Western value system, they have, like, even down to something like IQ, which is a very obvious way to think about it.
01:48:24.000And in many ways, and in many ways, I know this sounds kind of woke, but I think it's inherently true, is that our beliefs and the values in our society are based on the average of our society.
01:48:58.160We have an education system that is based around the Prussian system of the 1800s, and what gets talked about a lot less is that it was, while rooted in the Prussian system of the 1800s, of the nation state, that was built on these older methods from different places.
01:49:15.420I'm from New England, the earliest in 1635, when Massachusetts, one of the New England colonies, they instituted public education, not just for white men, but also for anyone living in their society, which very soon after that, they had black slaves and freed black people.
01:49:38.820Not just men, but also women, they had to do this.
01:49:48.500The point is that in the 1800s, Prussian system, you go into the 1890s.
01:49:53.220I have a whole, I have spoken about this for hours, but to make it more concise, this system gets changed in line with what industrialists want.
01:50:05.100People like Henry Ford, Carnegie, Rockefeller, they institute these changes.
01:50:53.180Now, our education system is built around this.
01:50:55.860It's built around a single track towards, you know, going to college, this average white male.
01:51:00.420Well, earlier societies had much better ways of dealing with diversity of thought.
01:51:06.740And people who would today be diagnosed with schizophrenia, as well as any other belief, any other different way of thinking, it would be called something like, in certain cultures, I forget the specific one for this, but it would be translated as like the gift.
01:51:22.640It would be translated in a way, and their position in their society, they wouldn't be forced to sit for eight hours as a five-year-old boy, which is cruel and evil, to sit in a classroom.
01:51:38.280And if they can't do it, they're going to pump you full of drugs that make you able to do this thing that's unnatural to you, to socialize you into this.
01:51:44.440I can assume that all three of us were not exactly, you know, built for regular public education in that way.
01:52:00.700And I was diagnosed with ADHD at 26 years old after I graduated college.
01:52:04.180But it's, you know, you work through it.
01:52:07.880But the point is that in the past, these differences, there are better methods, there are more ways of, in traditional societies, dealing with these things.
01:52:18.100And they would have a position in society of importance that is in line with how they think.
01:52:27.220And they would be valued in society for what they do, not for hunting and gathering.
01:52:33.120They might not even live within regular society.
01:52:36.160You know, you watch something like that TV show Vikings, where they have that shaman, that crazy guy that ends up that, I don't know if you guys have seen the show, but he lives outside of regular society.
01:52:46.760But he has a position within society, even though he's outside of it, even though he lives physically outside of it.
01:52:54.600And sometimes they would just live within regular society in a more literal way.
01:52:59.280But there were methods of, you know, every single type of difference that someone would have, every single problem they had, they figured out ways of dealing with it.
01:53:11.480The way that we deal with it today is through drugs and therapy and all sorts of different things.
01:53:16.320And typically, by the way, abandonment.
01:53:18.220And after some time, you can no longer just stay in a facility and keep, you know, taking up a bed or being given drugs.
01:53:28.700And most of her time is spent just walking around the streets of New York, you know, having wild experience after wild experience.
01:53:36.700So, yeah, we, to Noelle's point here, we just brought up that chat.
01:53:40.700Terrence McKenna talked about schizophrenics being shamans in traditional cultures.
01:53:44.140And I think that exemplifies, they would be shamans or they would be oracles or there was always a position within these ancient cultures where these people would be elevated to.
01:53:54.420They would be in a position of importance, culturally speaking.
01:53:58.380And so, yeah, I mean, you know, something that we've said here ad nauseum, and I will say it again at the risk of being repetitive, which I consistently am.
01:54:33.040The failure to deal with these certain things in a way that makes these traditional societies who, by Western standards, were materially poor, but the values, it doesn't matter.
01:54:44.660And I would view a society that is able to, you know, have people of different beliefs and different ways of understanding fit into their culture in a certain way as a far superior culture to our own, regardless of how high our buildings are or how fast and efficient our cars are.
01:55:05.300Yeah, there's an element that we're missing entirely to our detriment massively.
01:55:12.780All right, Sam, we have to bring it in for a landing.
01:55:17.080And I just want to say right here, we'd love to have you back sometime in the future to continue this because God knows this is a topic that is much more expansive than we were able to delve into in an hour and a half.
01:55:31.760But for the people listening, one more time, let everybody know where they can find you and your work if they want to delve a little bit deeper into this.
01:55:39.880Yeah, so I have a lot of threads on stuff like this.
01:55:42.940A lot of it's just like, you know, history stuff on Twitter, ill underscore scholar, and then videos on YouTube.