Nephilim Death Squad - 134： Mormon Rebuttal w⧸ The Artificial Dissemination Podcast

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00:01:11.040 Double Up Stuff Productions.

00:01:13.340 We are being hypnotized by people like this.

00:01:21.600 Newsreaders, politicians, teachers, lecturers.

00:01:26.100 We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people.

00:01:33.780 The chasm between what we're told is going on and what is really going on is absolutely sick people.

00:01:40.420 Oh, yeah, dude.

00:01:41.640 There's some Nephilim shit.

00:01:42.820 It's like we all know what's going down.

00:01:45.460 We know I'm saying shit what happened to the home of the brave.

00:01:49.040 They're controlling us now.

00:01:50.660 We know we're talking about how they made us hard to be slaves.

00:01:53.560 And everybody's just walking around, heading to clouds.

00:01:56.560 I want to wake up to a dead in the grave.

00:01:59.000 Fighting it's too late.

00:01:59.980 We need to be ready to raise up.

00:02:01.820 Welcome to the end of the day.

00:02:03.540 Everybody is slaves.

00:02:04.960 Only some are aware that the government releases.

00:02:09.080 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad.

00:02:13.500 I am David Lee Corbo, a.k.a. The Raven.

00:02:16.220 That is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation.

00:02:19.220 Before we get into today's guest, I would like to remind all of the live viewers

00:02:22.160 that this is a 30-minute preview only.

00:02:24.640 Sometime around the 30-minute mark, we're going to be going live exclusively

00:02:27.520 to patreon.com backslash Nephilim Death Squad,

00:02:30.680 where you can continue watching along, enjoying an ad-free viewing experience,

00:02:35.900 talking in the chat, and gaining access to the episodes before the general public does.

00:02:39.940 And you can do it all for free.

00:02:42.120 So if you like the conversation and are quite upset when that 30-minute mark hits

00:02:46.620 and we go away, fret not.

00:02:48.320 You can follow us there and you can do it for free.

00:02:50.180 Joining us today is Not Nice Guy and Megan of the Artificial Dissemination HD Podcast.

00:02:57.540 Did I get that right?

00:02:58.760 Yeah.

00:02:59.120 Yeah, you got it.

00:02:59.380 I believe I got it right.

00:03:00.580 Guys, for the audience who might not be familiar with you,

00:03:03.460 why don't you tell them a little bit about where they can find your work

00:03:05.840 and what it is that you focus on?

00:03:07.240 Because I know you're here, by the way, to make Joseph Smith proud.

00:03:11.680 I feel like the HD part of his podcast, like he put HD, it's like maybe as a slight to us

00:03:18.180 because like my video quality isn't so great.

00:03:20.320 Yeah, that's Artificial Dissemination HD.

00:03:22.740 This is Nephilim Death Squad, grainy.

00:03:25.040 Standard definition.

00:03:26.640 Yeah, this is CRT TV.

00:03:30.200 240p.

00:03:31.080 Yeah, it's not good, guys.

00:03:32.600 Please, but let everybody know where they can find your work.

00:03:35.280 Yeah, so I'm – what happened?

00:03:38.740 Oh, yeah, so –

00:03:39.820 Where did everyone go?

00:03:41.740 And it's over.

00:03:42.780 Sorry, guys.

00:03:43.400 It's been a good talk, bud.

00:03:44.380 Yeah, so Artificial Dissemination HD, aka ADHD, podcast on Rumble.

00:03:49.360 So far, it's the only place I really post because I name the J a lot, so –

00:03:53.460 Ah, yes, yes.

00:03:54.400 That can be problematic for other platforms.

00:03:56.460 But I got a Sunday show there called Latter-day Sunday.

00:03:59.140 We talk about Mormon shit. 1.00

00:04:00.920 Wednesdays, I do another show called Hazardous Discourse,

00:04:03.160 which is, like, current events, politics, stuff like that.

00:04:04.920 And I got more down the pipeline, so, like, stay tuned for that.

00:04:08.120 You can also find me on X where I just pretty much shitpost

00:04:10.900 and call people Jews and fags all the time.

00:04:13.660 Very nice.

00:04:14.260 Not a nice guy.

00:04:15.760 Yeah, I'm not a nice guy.

00:04:17.360 Definitely are people.

00:04:18.260 Yeah, I met you at – for the first time at Bohemian Grove,

00:04:21.500 and it was, like, after – I think you came up to me after, like, the second day.

00:04:25.980 And I was tired.

00:04:27.720 My wife was, like – like, we were about to pack in the car,

00:04:29.860 and I tried to talk to you for a few minutes, but I was, like, I got to go

00:04:32.120 because I have these people waiting on me.

00:04:33.780 So I'm glad that we have this, like, you know, this –

00:04:36.560 Follow-up, right?

00:04:37.120 Second chance.

00:04:37.720 Yeah, the follow-up conversation.

00:04:39.780 And we're going to chill.

00:04:41.200 We're going to talk about why Heidi Love is wrong about the Mormons.

00:04:45.100 That's right.

00:04:45.480 How dare she?

00:04:46.320 How dare she?

00:04:47.840 Yeah, and we'll get into whatever else, you know, is on your heart these days.

00:04:51.140 So where do you want to – where do you want to lead us off?

00:04:53.140 Before we do that, can I just – I want to thank Not Nice Guy

00:04:55.640 because I do have my Bible, so my King James Version Bible

00:04:59.760 with the beautiful custom – the raven in the bottom corner.

00:05:04.600 And I also got the Book of Mormon from Not Nice Guy,

00:05:09.120 and that was at the last Bohemian Grove.

00:05:11.080 Some of the coolest things I've ever received from anybody,

00:05:13.460 so I just wanted to say thank you for that because they're awesome.

00:05:16.340 I love these things.

00:05:17.080 Not very many people get to have a leather-bound version of the Book of Mormon

00:05:20.080 and a King James Version of the Bible, you know, with their name on it.

00:05:24.440 So thank you very much for that, brother.

00:05:25.680 I mean, not very much in the church.

00:05:27.000 It's kind of standard.

00:05:28.660 Is it really?

00:05:29.420 I don't know.

00:05:29.940 I mean, like, when my kids are baptized, when they choose to be baptized,

00:05:34.460 like, that's what we get them, and that's a pretty common thing.

00:05:37.440 Is it really?

00:05:38.100 I wasn't raised in the church, so I have no idea.

00:05:40.120 And so to me, it's very meaningful.

00:05:42.180 I mean, I guess it is meaningful either way.

00:05:43.700 Well, yeah, meaningful either way.

00:05:44.920 Show the back.

00:05:45.480 You never show the back.

00:05:46.320 You always show this off.

00:05:47.400 You showed it on Heidi Love, but you didn't show the back to people.

00:05:49.200 Yeah, that's right.

00:05:50.500 At the bottom there, Retardio.

00:05:53.600 Just a little Easter egg for you.

00:05:55.320 Very cool.

00:05:56.120 Is that Moroni on the corner?

00:05:58.440 At the end of this episode, we'll be burning one of these,

00:06:00.560 depending on how it goes.

00:06:01.920 No, no, don't burn either.

00:06:04.300 It's my understanding that King James was a homosexual demonologist. 0.81

00:06:08.420 I don't know how true that is.

00:06:09.320 I don't know if there's veracity to those claims,

00:06:10.800 but we're not here to talk about King James today.

00:06:12.700 Bad people can do good things.

00:06:13.960 That's true.

00:06:14.440 That's true.

00:06:14.900 I suppose so.

00:06:16.260 But we are here to talk about Mormonism.

00:06:19.200 We did an episode with Heidi Love,

00:06:21.040 and I know that it was a little bit contentious because she's an ex-Mormon.

00:06:26.460 And so it was kind of a spilling of the beans, right,

00:06:28.720 an insider's look at what really goes on within Mormonism.

00:06:32.380 Is something on fire in your room?

00:06:34.080 I see, like, smoke coming up.

00:06:35.400 You see that?

00:06:35.900 I don't know if you guys can see that.

00:06:36.980 It's my coffee.

00:06:37.680 I can't drink it right now.

00:06:39.000 It's going to be a great episode.

00:06:41.120 Just chaos.

00:06:41.660 I don't think she spilled any beans.

00:06:43.040 I think she found a new religion.

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00:07:02.740 If you have questions or concerned about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you,

00:07:05.700 please contact ConnexOntario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge.

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00:07:24.920 Hashtag make a play.

00:07:27.760 Probably.

00:07:28.400 I mean, isn't that what we all do?

00:07:30.140 I don't know.

00:07:30.460 We segue from one religion to the next.

00:07:32.080 But let me tell you, after having that conversation, I was certainly not turned off from Mormonism.

00:07:38.100 In fact, my look at Mormonism now is it's one of the closest branches of Christianity

00:07:43.420 that is kind of closer to Christian mysticism, as Sam Tripoli likes to put it.

00:07:49.620 And there's a lot of fun stuff within Mormonism.

00:07:51.560 I don't know where to put it, but I'm excited to get into this conversation.

00:07:54.260 So, I mean, where do you guys want to start in regards?

00:07:59.440 Because this isn't necessarily a full rebuttal of a Heidi Love episode, as much as this is

00:08:04.820 just, you know, more information about Mormonism, right?

00:08:07.700 Yeah.

00:08:07.860 Well, I can give you like a worldview from like a pro-Mormon versus anti-Mormon, so at least

00:08:14.360 you guys get like the other side.

00:08:16.720 I mean, I think I'd start at the beginning, and this is a thing that Heidi Love brought

00:08:20.200 up that like, to be entirely honest, like ticked me off a little bit.

00:08:24.220 Okay.

00:08:24.500 It'd be like the first vision.

00:08:26.200 He was in the chat, furiously typing.

00:08:30.780 She mischaracterized the first vision in a way that was just like frustrating to me,

00:08:38.120 because if she had gone to the temple and was like a member her whole life, like she

00:08:41.860 knew better.

00:08:43.320 And so that frustrated me a bit, because it's like, okay, well, I know that you know that's

00:08:47.300 not how the story went.

00:08:48.420 It's like, so why are you telling, you know, people that's how it happened?

00:08:52.120 And what did she say exactly?

00:08:54.520 Because I have a hard time remembering.

00:08:56.560 And then what would you add as a caveat, or how would you correct that?

00:09:00.020 Yeah.

00:09:00.340 So like the story that she tells is that like Joseph Smith, he read some scripture in James

00:09:06.820 or, you know, in the Bible where it says, you know, you should pray to know things.

00:09:11.840 He went out to a grove and he knelt to pray.

00:09:14.900 And then he was like surrounded by darkness and he blacked out.

00:09:18.180 And when he woke up, there were these two beings standing over him.

00:09:21.780 Yeah.

00:09:22.180 This.

00:09:23.500 Great, great pull up.

00:09:24.560 And, you know, he, he told them not to join any churches and stuff.

00:09:29.320 So like, it's maybe not obvious to other people what I have a problem with, but like, he never

00:09:35.440 blacked out.

00:09:37.380 First of all.

00:09:38.020 Well, there's a critical piece there that she completely bypassed.

00:09:40.620 Yeah.

00:09:41.180 So what, what, what happened in the like official story would be like Joseph Smith read James

00:09:47.240 one five, where it says, if any of you lack wisdom, um, let him ask of a God who giveth

00:09:52.280 to all men liberally, a brave, a brave, not, and she'll be given him something like that.

00:09:56.940 Um, and so Joseph Smith, you know, was in this time, this period where like, there was a lot

00:10:01.400 of religious contention.

00:10:02.280 People didn't know which church to join.

00:10:04.900 There were churches all over the place.

00:10:06.280 It was also very like superstitious and, you know, folk, um, like folklore going around.

00:10:13.500 And so he didn't know where to go and who to join.

00:10:16.640 So he's like, well, I'm going to go pray to God because I read, you know, I read this

00:10:20.480 scripture where it says, if you lack wisdom, pray about it.

00:10:23.480 And so he did.

00:10:24.280 And he went to a place where he had, uh, you know, just like a secluded grove and knelt

00:10:31.400 and prayed.

00:10:32.060 And as he started praying to find out which church was true, he was like surrounded

00:10:36.240 by like darkness.

00:10:38.480 And he felt like it was not like some, like, not like some imagined thing, but like this

00:10:43.360 real force that was closing in on him, trying to kill him if it could.

00:10:47.620 Is this when he is, uh, he's still a very young man at this time.

00:10:50.460 He's like 12 years old.

00:10:51.440 He's like a 12.

00:10:52.060 I think he's 14.

00:10:53.200 14.

00:10:53.960 Yeah.

00:10:54.460 She's, she's like obfuscating the idea of him blacking out to this part of this, uh,

00:10:59.360 this darkness part.

00:11:00.280 Yeah.

00:11:00.620 Well, I also don't like how she downplayed the scripture.

00:11:03.280 Like that's, he never loses consciousness.

00:11:05.780 And then when he's being surrounded by darkness, the key factor is that he calls out to Christ.

00:11:09.820 So it's before he even utters a word.

00:11:11.780 And then as soon as he calls out to Christ, that's where.

00:11:14.940 Right.

00:11:15.420 Exactly.

00:11:15.840 And that was where I was bothered by it because she left that part out.

00:11:18.940 So he's being surrounded by darkness about, you know, feeling like it's about to be destroyed

00:11:22.520 and he calls out to Christ.

00:11:24.380 And as soon as he does that, the darkness dissipates and then the light descends on him

00:11:29.140 and the figures appear and, um, he sees God and Jesus Christ.

00:11:34.060 And one, they look, apparently they look exactly like very similar.

00:11:38.260 And, you know, one points to the other and goes, this is my beloved son, hear ye him.

00:11:41.380 Um, and then, you know, Jesus speaks to him, tells him to join none of them, that they're

00:11:45.700 all wrong.

00:11:46.440 The creeds are an abomination. 1.00

00:11:48.460 Yeah.

00:11:48.920 Uh, oh, that's interesting.

00:11:51.160 So that is to say, um, could that be interchangeable with the, uh, denominations are an abomination? 0.66

00:11:59.700 More or less.

00:12:00.540 But, um, I think it's more like the foundation of what Christianity has been built upon for

00:12:05.480 the last 2000 years was creation of man and not.

00:12:08.840 Um, the, the book of revelation, right?

00:12:11.460 The first, uh, the first couple of chapters are basically going through whatever the denominations

00:12:16.880 were there at the time and saying, this sucks, this sucks, this sucks.

00:12:20.180 So fairly common practice.

00:12:22.300 Yeah.

00:12:22.720 Yeah.

00:12:23.220 Yeah.

00:12:23.880 Um, and so he didn't join any of them.

00:12:26.740 He was, uh, and he, like, he told like, this is kind of like later on down the line,

00:12:31.860 I guess, but like Heidi Love got into like the treasure digging and it's like, okay, well,

00:12:37.140 you're going to, you're going to get on a guy for a summer job.

00:12:39.420 Like, like I've done some weird summer jobs too.

00:12:43.580 There's conflicting.

00:12:44.640 I mean, there's been rumors since the beginning.

00:12:47.180 And so there's a lot of information that it's like, it's not necessarily second hand.

00:12:50.980 It's from people that were contentious or antagonistic to him from the beginning.

00:12:54.320 So you kind of have to sift through.

00:12:56.320 And I don't know that anyone's going to get the total truth.

00:12:59.140 But so far, I mean, the idea that you would, excuse me, ask, ask, uh, God for wisdom when

00:13:04.960 you lack it, and then to have this, this experience where it feels like darkness is encroaching on

00:13:10.200 you.

00:13:10.440 And when you call out to Christ that, I mean, all of that tracks in a massive way.

00:13:14.720 I, I couldn't, if that is how it is really unfolding, I couldn't fault that.

00:13:20.960 Well, that feels pretty, pretty straightforward on its face.

00:13:23.520 Well, it's not uncommon either.

00:13:25.280 Like at the time it was called the second great awakening.

00:13:28.340 Like people were claiming visions and all sorts of stuff all the time.

00:13:31.520 But like Joseph Smith seems to be like the only one who came out of it with, you know,

00:13:36.460 a big church.

00:13:37.180 And he, he had his own translated book of Mormon, his own works.

00:13:42.040 Can I ask you a question?

00:13:43.380 Um, how, so he said he saw Jesus and God.

00:13:48.200 Um, and that they look very similar.

00:13:51.140 He said they're two personages.

00:13:52.700 Yeah.

00:13:54.000 How did he, how was he able to look upon God?

00:13:57.000 Is there something about this guy, Joseph Smith?

00:13:59.080 Because I know that, uh, really nobody can look out, look at God.

00:14:03.760 Um, I, was it, uh, it was Moses that was able to look at him as he walked by.

00:14:08.840 But only see his back.

00:14:10.340 Yeah.

00:14:10.540 What's up with this guy, Joseph Smith?

00:14:11.900 Is he like something else?

00:14:13.320 Do you want to do that or do you want me to?

00:14:14.720 Go for it.

00:14:15.320 He's got very strong eyes.

00:14:16.060 Okay.

00:14:16.800 So we believe something.

00:14:17.700 He's got super strong eyes.

00:14:18.860 You have to be translated.

00:14:20.500 You have to be, um, changed in some way in order to view the glory of God.

00:14:24.720 And so we believe that's what happened with Moses.

00:14:26.300 That's what happened in the new Testament when people are encountered with, um, like Jehovah 1.00

00:14:32.120 or God, they're changed in some way.

00:14:35.360 Um, and that would be what happened with Joseph Smith.

00:14:37.460 And the, I think one of the first things that Christ says to him is like, your sins are

00:14:40.200 forgiven you.

00:14:41.360 And so he would be more in a state of innocence at that time.

00:14:46.420 Does that sort of answer your question?

00:14:48.920 Well, no, I mean, uh, so, so within.

00:14:52.720 It would make sense why, like, uh, why Moses wouldn't be able to look upon God because he

00:14:56.860 didn't have Jesus at the time to, uh, that, that had that covenant where he could remove

00:15:01.640 his sins.

00:15:02.840 So, okay.

00:15:03.980 Yeah.

00:15:04.240 All right.

00:15:04.580 Uh, that, that does make a little bit of sense to me.

00:15:06.640 Yeah.

00:15:06.780 We call it transfiguration.

00:15:08.640 Right.

00:15:09.000 Right.

00:15:09.180 It's where you're transfigured. 0.99

00:15:10.200 Yeah.

00:15:10.320 That would be the temporary, right.

00:15:11.680 And then translated as more permanent.

00:15:13.260 That would be like Enoch.

00:15:14.440 It's like, we'd have to constantly, we'd have to constantly be transfigure, transfiguring

00:15:18.740 ourselves because we're constantly sinning.

00:15:20.700 So I guess if, all right, all right.

00:15:22.360 I get, I get what you're saying here.

00:15:23.540 The other thing though, is that we believe that Jehovah, the old Testament, that's Jesus.

00:15:28.580 And so he was the one that was interacting with the world, not the father.

00:15:33.080 Well, we've heard that argument.

00:15:34.260 Um, and, and I think even Ed Mabry makes it this.

00:15:37.440 So there are moments in the Bible where, um, God is, is talking about when he left his

00:15:45.180 throne.

00:15:46.320 Um, and, and I forget exactly how it goes, but that, that reference to like Jesus Christ,

00:15:51.600 um, people, people seeing God before the arrival of Jesus Christ.

00:15:56.300 And I believe there's like descriptives that it sounds very much the same way that Jesus was

00:16:00.220 described throughout the Bible.

00:16:01.280 So even before, uh, the first coming of Christ, uh, there seems to be some correlation where

00:16:06.300 when people have experiences with God, there are similar descriptives that would have been

00:16:11.100 used later on in the book to describe Jesus Christ.

00:16:13.120 So it's like an, uh, you know, it's his son, but it's an aspect of him.

00:16:17.060 Uh, so, I mean, it's not the first time I've coming across this concept that they are similar

00:16:21.420 looking or similar in appearance.

00:16:22.740 Well, I mean, the idea of the Trinity, right?

00:16:24.620 It's like one in the same.

00:16:25.580 It's, it's very, it's complex.

00:16:27.160 Kind of hard for me to grasp.

00:16:28.340 Well, it's nonsense.

00:16:29.080 Nonsense more or less.

00:16:31.080 Yeah.

00:16:31.640 Oh, you guys don't believe in the Trinity.

00:16:33.240 So what the hell are you saying then?

00:16:36.320 Well, we just did an episode on the Trinity.

00:16:38.540 Yeah, we did.

00:16:39.640 Um, before we like move on from that though, I did want to mention that like, um, like Adam

00:16:45.420 walked with Jesus and he partook the apple and then, you know, tried to blame the woman

00:16:49.640 for, for his down, you know, mistakes and he wasn't like immediately destroyed or cast

00:16:54.580 out.

00:16:54.940 And then even after he was, he left the garden, Cain slew Abel and the Lord still appeared

00:17:00.820 to Cain and was like, what have you done?

00:17:02.780 Yeah.

00:17:03.420 I was thinking about that.

00:17:04.380 Like there are times where there are times where it's, um, maybe not fully understood

00:17:09.980 exactly how that you stand in the presence.

00:17:12.360 Um, I mean, it's definitely different because like, well, like, I don't think we believe Jesus

00:17:18.500 had a body at that time because he received his body when he came later on.

00:17:23.720 So, you know, there may be something different as far as like a glorified bodily person versus

00:17:29.420 the spirit of, well, doesn't it make sense in some way that the physical form would imitate

00:17:34.540 the spiritual form?

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00:18:03.380 Hi, I'm Darren Marler, host of the Weird Darkness podcast.

00:18:06.660 I want to talk about the most important tool in my podcast belt.

00:18:09.980 Spreaker is the all-in-one platform that makes it easy to record, host, and distribute your

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00:19:04.060 I think so.

00:19:04.580 Yeah, so I mean, this idea that what came first, the chicken or the egg, egg is, you

00:19:11.260 know, I mean, he's kicking off the creation of the universe and long before the arrival

00:19:20.060 of Jesus Christ.

00:19:21.120 And then, you know, you have this big thing, wherever you guys stand on the Trinity, I'm

00:19:26.100 just using it as an analogy in this context to highlight how, you know, similar descriptives

00:19:31.840 are used for the Father and used for Christ.

00:19:33.760 So, yeah, I mean, if spirit imitates, or rather, if flesh imitates spirit, then you

00:19:38.120 can kind of follow that through line.

00:19:40.020 Yeah, it was Genesis 4.16, and Cain went out from the presence of the Lord.

00:19:44.200 Right.

00:19:45.040 And that's when, didn't God come to him and ask him, you know, where his brother is?

00:19:48.940 And that's where you get the line, am I my brother's keeper?

00:19:50.700 Am I my brother's keeper?

00:19:51.640 Right.

00:19:52.060 Yeah.

00:19:52.260 And that's another instance of, number one, of course, God knows, right?

00:19:56.060 I mean, it's not like Abel died.

00:19:57.760 He's over there in the ditch, bro.

00:19:59.600 He always gives you an opportunity to explain yourself.

00:20:01.680 He gives you an opportunity to explain yourself.

00:20:03.880 Exactly.

00:20:04.320 And also, in what context is he there asking Cain that question?

00:20:08.740 But there was definitely some sort of presence involved.

00:20:12.560 Like, he was in the presence of either his spirit or something along those lines.

00:20:18.340 But yeah, we don't, kind of going back to the other thing, too, like the Trinity, we

00:20:22.140 don't believe in the Trinity, we do think that, like, Jesus, the Heavenly Father, and the

00:20:25.880 Holy Spirit are three separate beings.

00:20:27.980 We only worship God the Father.

00:20:31.240 So we...

00:20:32.200 But we do recognize that Christ is...

00:20:34.100 Right.

00:20:34.620 You know, he's the only begotten of the Father, so he is as much God as the Father.

00:20:38.740 Only through him, though.

00:20:39.680 When Christ says that the way to the Father is through him.

00:20:45.100 I agree with it.

00:20:46.160 I don't understand the question.

00:20:48.160 Well, I'm just asking, if you agree with that, then that's...

00:20:51.340 Oh, yeah.

00:20:51.800 Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:52.620 Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:52.980 Like, we pray in the name of Jesus Christ to the Father.

00:20:55.100 Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

00:20:55.720 So...

00:20:56.160 Baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

00:20:58.860 I mean, all of our prayers end in the name of Jesus Christ.

00:21:02.580 You just think that there are three distinct entities?

00:21:04.940 Yeah, okay.

00:21:06.020 Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:21:07.140 Well, Jesus Christ is the heir.

00:21:08.740 So I would agree with the idea that there are three separate entities, but there is an

00:21:12.580 overlap between them.

00:21:14.340 So they are their own separate entities, but they share some fundamental shit in common,

00:21:18.920 right?

00:21:19.420 Yeah.

00:21:19.660 A hundred percent.

00:21:20.360 Yeah, well, John 17 clarifies that they're one, but he explains exactly what he means by

00:21:25.200 one.

00:21:25.880 Yeah, so we...

00:21:27.340 I think we look at the Trinity, or we look at a lot of things as...

00:21:31.120 Through a lens of this physical realm that we inhabit.

00:21:34.060 We don't have a lot of understanding of the spiritual realm.

00:21:37.480 We don't understand how something can be...

00:21:39.980 I don't know how...

00:21:40.960 Omnipresence or omnipotence escapes us entirely, right?

00:21:44.100 This God is outside of time and space.

00:21:47.300 But even the symbol of the Trinity, I think it kind of does...

00:21:50.940 And I'd be open to your thoughts on it.

00:21:53.680 It looks like it represents it pretty well.

00:21:56.540 Because if they were the same exact beings, you'd have one circle.

00:22:01.460 But instead, you have three overlapping circles where there's some conjoining crossover, but

00:22:09.600 then also a massive body of the circles that are outside of one another.

00:22:13.660 You know what I mean?

00:22:14.000 So in that way, it kind of does.

00:22:15.460 There's different personalities for each of the Trinity.

00:22:21.380 But I mean, I would agree with that.

00:22:23.000 I would agree with, like, they're separate entities, but there's obviously massive conjoining

00:22:27.340 tissue.

00:22:27.920 And so I think the actual visual representation of the symbol of the Trinity kind of, if you

00:22:31.640 look at it through that lens, does a pretty good job.

00:22:33.220 But then what do people take it and, you know, interpret it differently or run with it in

00:22:38.780 a different direction?

00:22:39.800 If you change Trinity to Godhead, then we're on the same page.

00:22:43.140 This seems interchangeable, no?

00:22:45.340 Well, it depends on who you talk to.

00:22:47.480 Right.

00:22:47.980 Oh, so I mean, you guys know, or at least not nice guy knows, my understanding of Christianity

00:22:53.940 and Catholicism is I'm getting into this new.

00:22:56.380 So I'm looking at this from, I guess you would call it like a naive perspective.

00:23:00.940 Um, I see that Trinity and I go, yeah, that, that makes sense.

00:23:04.920 But then when you say Godhead, I go, yeah, okay. 0.83

00:23:07.060 That also resonates with me.

00:23:09.160 And so when you say there's three separate entities definitively, but there's a tremendous

00:23:13.900 amount of overlap, I can't even figure a way that I would push back against that.

00:23:16.960 That seems exactly what's going on in my head.

00:23:19.220 Yeah.

00:23:19.620 Well, I definitely think they're like one in purpose and like, they obviously have like

00:23:25.060 Jesus obviously has like God's DNA for lack of a better term where like they're,

00:23:30.800 they are, they are still part of like what the cat, I get the Catholics with the same 1.00

00:23:34.120 essence, but they're, they're not the same person, just like your son or your daughter

00:23:37.300 isn't going to be the same person as you, but they are like, you, when you look at them,

00:23:40.580 you see yourself in them still.

00:23:42.580 Well, and you point out that there's a hierarchy that's pretty evident in the scriptures.

00:23:46.060 Like Christ never does his own will.

00:23:47.840 It's always the will of the father.

00:23:49.240 Yes.

00:23:49.620 Yes.

00:23:49.900 And why would you constantly reference the father?

00:23:52.220 Why would you even reference yourself as the way to the father if you were one in the

00:23:57.100 same exact thing?

00:23:58.720 So I think it's just, you know, when it comes into the semantics of conversations like this

00:24:04.360 surrounding the Trinity or anything else, it's, it's not the fault of scripture as much as

00:24:11.380 it's the fault of, we're limited in our understanding.

00:24:14.900 That's why we're told constantly to lean not on our own understanding, right?

00:24:18.000 Because some things are just beyond us.

00:24:21.420 You know, if, if, and, and people that get, you know, get upset when it's like, oh, that

00:24:25.660 it requires faith, that last part, because some things are beyond us and people pull back

00:24:30.640 at that concept.

00:24:32.100 But I mean, there's a lot of things that we.

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00:25:01.880 of charge.

00:25:03.960 Hi, I'm Darren Marler, host of the Weird Darkness podcast.

00:25:07.260 I want to talk about the most important tool in my podcast belt.

00:25:10.340 Spreaker is the all-in-one platform that makes it easy to record, host, and distribute

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00:26:00.860 That's S-P-R-E-A-K-E-R.com. 0.88

00:26:05.380 Anecdotally, have faith in, but are beyond our own understanding.

00:26:09.360 We're doing that same thing right now when it comes to quantum computing and shit like

00:26:12.480 that.

00:26:12.640 We don't understand that.

00:26:13.920 And we just hear that jargon, right?

00:26:15.480 The multiverse or other dimensions or quantum super states.

00:26:19.500 If you fucking observe something, then that determines the state that it's in.

00:26:23.940 But the act of not observing it, it's in a super state where it's both here and there.

00:26:27.780 We don't fucking understand that.

00:26:29.640 That requires a leap of faith.

00:26:31.200 So there are things that are beyond our grasp.

00:26:33.260 I'm comfortable saying that I'm not quite sure how this works.

00:26:37.140 And I'm also, I think anybody that says that they do understand exactly how it works is

00:26:42.320 full of shit. 0.54

00:26:43.880 Yeah.

00:26:44.420 I agree.

00:26:45.060 Well, I think that's why the creeds are an abomination is because it says you have to 1.00

00:26:47.920 believe in this exact way.

00:26:50.080 Yes.

00:26:50.680 It's funny too, because if you ask a Catholic, like, what is the Trinity? 0.63

00:26:56.300 They'll go, well, it's like, he's like, he's unknowable.

00:26:59.240 We don't actually know.

00:27:00.200 It's hard to talk about without like descending into heresy, but I'm going to hell if I don't

00:27:05.600 believe in the Trinity.

00:27:06.800 So like, I don't understand how I'm going to be going to hell for something that nobody

00:27:10.360 can actually possibly truly know or understand.

00:27:13.620 Yeah.

00:27:14.280 That's a weird one.

00:27:15.640 It goes to...

00:27:16.740 Strange to me.

00:27:17.180 It probably comes down to this weird metaphysical thing that exists on whatever plane God exists

00:27:25.420 on, not on this realm.

00:27:26.520 So it's going to be very hard for us to understand or explain the physics, but there certainly

00:27:31.040 is this aspect of like, they are moving in one accord and they have this same goal.

00:27:35.380 But then you have these parts where Jesus will look up and say, why have you forsaken me?

00:27:39.540 Or Jesus doesn't quite know, he doesn't quite know the exact plan of what God has sent him

00:27:46.940 to do.

00:27:47.480 And it seems like when the years that he's on earth, he's learning, he's figuring it

00:27:50.860 out.

00:27:51.060 So there is this, a disconnect.

00:27:53.020 I don't, I don't understand it.

00:27:55.680 I also will say that I do like the idea of the Trinity.

00:27:58.660 I like the idea of their, they are of this one mind, but they are separate entities for

00:28:03.340 sure.

00:28:03.660 Right.

00:28:04.040 There's something strange here that we will never know.

00:28:06.760 I think it's almost a question of why not both, right?

00:28:09.920 Why not share a tremendous aspect in common?

00:28:12.700 Why not also be individual entities, you know, and going back to that faith conversation and

00:28:18.000 how people who are non-religious will pull away from this.

00:28:20.400 It's like, we know that our eyes are only capable of seeing, you know, so much of the

00:28:25.700 light spectrum.

00:28:26.240 And so there are colors that are beyond our perception and we take it, you know, on face

00:28:30.440 value that those colors exist.

00:28:32.040 Are they provable?

00:28:32.780 Well, some of them are.

00:28:34.040 Infrared and things like that.

00:28:35.380 And you have this idea of like ultraviolet, whatever, man, mostly we're taking that shit

00:28:39.400 on faith.

00:28:40.000 So we understand that there are things that are beyond our perception and we don't get

00:28:43.780 upset about it when it comes to science, but when it comes to religion, then all of a

00:28:48.220 sudden everybody gets fucking upset. 0.75

00:28:51.200 Well, I, I kind of want to push back a little bit on like the, the whole like unknowableness

00:28:55.240 of God.

00:28:55.900 I feel like what father doesn't want to be known by his children.

00:28:58.840 And I think that's why he sent Jesus is because we're supposed to emulate Jesus who lived

00:29:04.340 a perfect life, who is the literal son of God.

00:29:07.060 Like Jesus came here so that we could know God, not so that we would be confused and not

00:29:12.540 understand who our father in heaven is and not have a relationship with him.

00:29:16.540 Like there there's, I, I, I, I don't agree with the Catholics on this.

00:29:21.140 Um, I think his power is more unknowable than God is.

00:29:25.040 Uh, I think God has done everything that he possibly can within reason to like help us

00:29:30.180 understand who he is so we can have a relationship with him.

00:29:32.880 Um, I would say that I want to clarify something Heidi love said, but she's like the Mormons 1.00

00:29:40.320 believe that God literally banged Mary, like not only super disrespectful, but no, we don't

00:29:46.100 actually, we don't know how he was conceived.

00:29:49.300 So that seems reasonable.

00:29:51.060 Right.

00:29:51.500 So we're not going to speculate or like put ourselves in a box that we know exactly how

00:29:54.960 it happened.

00:29:55.380 We don't.

00:29:55.500 Well, this happens a lot.

00:29:56.580 This is one of the, I would say like the fallacies that a lot of anti-Mormons fall into

00:30:00.220 is they, if someone who's LDS does something or says something then, oh, well then the 0.72

00:30:05.420 whole church did or said this, what's not true.

00:30:07.900 We also have like, we don't believe that prophets are infallible.

00:30:10.800 So just because Joseph Smith says something or, you know, um, Brigham Young had a theory,

00:30:15.860 like it doesn't mean that it's doctrine or that it came directly from God.

00:30:20.200 I think it gets kind of lot, like, like kind of lost in the weeds because people think,

00:30:26.440 oh, well, like all the scriptures, everything they said is true.

00:30:28.720 And it's like, yeah, but like you didn't record all the conversations they had outside

00:30:33.040 of those scriptures.

00:30:33.780 It's like, well, it's a little different when it's like 200 years ago, there's a lot

00:30:38.420 of documentation on things that they said and who they, you know, what they did.

00:30:41.620 And it's like, we don't have that.

00:30:43.380 It's not even that long ago.

00:30:44.400 We don't have that for like Jeremiah or Moses or Jesus.

00:30:47.180 So like, I think if we had a different look on it, um, people.

00:30:54.060 It is obvious that Moses made mistakes too.

00:30:57.080 Right.

00:30:57.520 Well, none of these people are Jesus Christ.

00:30:59.800 Exactly.

00:31:00.400 Right.

00:31:00.620 Right.

00:31:00.740 But they'll, what anti-Mose and ex-Mose do a lot of times is they'll argue like atheists

00:31:04.380 where they'll be like, um, like she wouldn't say sky daddy talking about someone that believes

00:31:09.140 in God, but she will use absurdity to characterize our faith.

00:31:12.960 Hmm.

00:31:14.760 So let me ask you this.

00:31:16.220 It's like the magic underwear thing.

00:31:17.100 What did you call them?

00:31:17.800 Anti-what?

00:31:18.460 Anti-Mose?

00:31:19.180 Ex-Mose.

00:31:19.540 Sorry, anti-Mose.

00:31:20.340 Ex-Mose.

00:31:20.800 Ex-Mose.

00:31:21.360 And then there's prog-Mose, which are like progressive Mormons.

00:31:23.420 There's kind of a war within the church.

00:31:25.680 Like there's a lot of interesting stuff we could talk about.

00:31:27.960 But that's within every denomination.

00:31:29.980 Right.

00:31:30.320 What I want to ask you is if-

00:31:32.360 I like your slur though.

00:31:33.460 I like the slur. 0.99

00:31:34.160 Dude, I thought it was, I thought it was, you know what I thought she was saying?

00:31:37.340 I thought initially for a split second, I was like, oh, like ex-Moses enjoyers and pro-Moses

00:31:42.960 enjoyers.

00:31:43.680 I was like, damn, I didn't know there was a real deviation on Moses like that.

00:31:47.700 So, you know, Joseph Smith has this experience and he's told that the creeds are, what was

00:31:53.800 the word?

00:31:55.000 An abomination?

00:31:56.020 Yeah.

00:31:56.600 Okay.

00:31:56.980 So then we have the springing up of the Mormon church.

00:32:00.680 And how did, how then does the church square those ideas where Joseph is the recipient

00:32:06.140 of this idea that the denominations are abominations?

00:32:09.900 Does that then mean that he erects the correct domination or denomination or is this-

00:32:16.040 Yeah.

00:32:16.640 Okay.

00:32:17.160 Okay.

00:32:17.520 All right.

00:32:18.160 Yeah.

00:32:18.800 What do you mean no?

00:32:20.080 Oh, we got some ex-Moses and some promos.

00:32:21.800 Because Joseph Smith didn't do it.

00:32:23.100 Jesus Christ did it through Joseph Smith. 0.95

00:32:25.340 Okay, that's fair.

00:32:25.360 That's fair.

00:32:25.840 So this is why we call it the restoration.

00:32:28.340 It's the restored gospel brought back to the earth.

00:32:31.000 So like a lot of people will quote me, it's like, oh, well, they said that like the gates

00:32:35.280 of hell will never, you know, prevail against like the church.

00:32:42.580 And it's like, well, yeah, it didn't because it was restored.

00:32:46.100 Like the apostasy was also prophesied in Amos and in different scriptures.

00:32:51.020 Yeah.

00:32:51.500 Even Jesus Christ says like there will be a falling away first before he returns.

00:32:57.100 And it was like, in our belief, the apostasy, that falling away happened shortly after, you

00:33:03.380 know, the last apostles were killed.

00:33:05.320 And then they like convened these councils and discussed like which books to put into

00:33:10.060 the Bible and like which ones to keep, which ones to throw away, which ones, you know, how

00:33:16.080 to interpret them.

00:33:17.460 And then it was like, once it was set in stone, then it's like, all right, everyone else needs

00:33:21.580 to go.

00:33:23.660 Let me ask you this.

00:33:24.820 What are some of the ways in which Mormonism deviates from, say, like an orthodox Christianity?

00:33:31.620 Some of the major ways.

00:33:32.740 I'm not asking for the whole laundry list, but.

00:33:35.020 The Trinity for sure.

00:33:36.080 The Trinity for sure.

00:33:36.900 Okay, so we've got that one.

00:33:39.020 Oh, that's a good one.

00:33:40.240 What was that?

00:33:40.800 Premortal existence.

00:33:41.920 Premortal existence.

00:33:42.600 We believe we existed as spirit children before we were born.

00:33:46.440 So like when it talks about in the Bible, you know, before you were in your mother's womb,

00:33:49.780 I knew you.

00:33:50.520 And it talks about foreordination.

00:33:51.620 And it talks about Christ in the spirit before he had a body.

00:33:54.740 We believe that souls existed or spirits existed before they were born.

00:33:59.460 Where are you guys at on reincarnation?

00:34:02.380 That's a debate in the church.

00:34:03.880 Some people believe in what they call multiple mortal probations where, but the official church

00:34:10.100 would say you get one chance.

00:34:12.600 Okay.

00:34:13.520 So what is then, I'm not, you know.

00:34:16.520 I don't like to let God.

00:34:17.900 Like, yeah, sure, it's possible until he tells me it's not, you know.

00:34:21.840 It's my personal belief.

00:34:23.300 I understand you guys are Mormons.

00:34:24.360 You're not orthodox Christians. 1.00

00:34:25.920 But you're saying that this idea of like existing pre-mortal, you know, what was the expression

00:34:34.600 used?

00:34:35.360 Premortal existence.

00:34:36.740 Premortal existence.

00:34:37.480 Well, and what we called, it's funny because what we call the spirits before they're sort

00:34:42.180 of, I don't know how to explain this.

00:34:44.840 What we say that God did is that he organized intelligences, that we existed in some form.

00:34:49.620 And then Heidi says, well, everyone knows intelligences are demons.

00:34:52.060 It's like, well, it's not a thing that everybody knows, so.

00:34:55.820 Yes, they are.

00:34:56.720 But again, it's like, why not?

00:34:59.320 Good also?

00:35:00.640 Yeah, what the demons do is just replicate.

00:35:03.260 They don't really create.

00:35:04.680 So yeah, if they're doing these things, if the fallen are doing something, God is probably

00:35:09.060 coming from somewhere.

00:35:09.880 Yeah, I think about like the UFO phenomenon as well.

00:35:12.760 We see a lot of that and I think immediately fallen angel, but I'm like, well, why not angel

00:35:16.540 technology as well?

00:35:17.520 Like this is presented itself in the Bible in the same way.

00:35:19.700 Well, it's the same thing that pops up with the number seven, right?

00:35:22.540 Where it's like, yeah, we did an episode recently with John Lee.

00:35:26.620 I forget his name.

00:35:27.420 His last name was a child, but he lays out this like, you know, 77 pattern.

00:35:36.580 It appears in all these like major events, 9-11, yada, yada.

00:35:39.680 And it appears like over and over and over again.

00:35:41.640 It's a 77th floor.

00:35:42.740 It was, it departed from this at the 77th, you know, whatever, over and over and over again.

00:35:47.660 And it's like, does that make 77 bad?

00:35:49.660 Well, in the Bible, it talks about resting in seven days.

00:35:51.820 There are seven seals.

00:35:53.000 It goes on and on and on.

00:35:54.280 So it's like, no, it's just an inversion.

00:35:56.040 Yeah, it's just an inversion of some sort of spiritual principle.

00:35:59.780 God makes the spiritual principle.

00:36:01.720 They co-opt it.

00:36:03.060 That's one of my arguments against Heidi Love is she says, oh, well, look at these symbols

00:36:06.360 and look at, you know, this upside down cross on this cane and stuff like that.

00:36:09.760 And it's just like, well, you know, if, if, if you presuppose that like we are the restored

00:36:13.980 church, the original church, you know, from every since Moses all the way down to, to Jesus

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00:36:49.180 Hi, I'm Darren Marler, host of the Weird Darkness podcast.

00:36:52.460 I want to talk about the most important tool in my podcast belt.

00:36:55.780 Spreaker is the all-in-one platform that makes it easy to record, host, and distribute

00:37:00.040 your show everywhere, from Apple Podcasts to Spotify.

00:37:02.900 But the real game changer for me was Spreaker's monetization.

00:37:06.720 Spreaker offers dynamic ad insertion.

00:37:08.900 That means you can automatically insert ads into your episodes.

00:37:11.780 No editing required.

00:37:13.240 And with Spreaker's programmatic ads, they'll bring the ads to you, and you get paid for

00:37:17.420 every download.

00:37:18.240 This turned my podcasting hobby into a full-time career.

00:37:21.340 Spreaker also has a premium subscription model where your most dedicated listeners can pay

00:37:25.760 for bonus content or early access, adding another revenue stream to what you're already

00:37:30.160 doing.

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00:37:33.240 Whether you're just starting out or running a full-blown podcast network, Spreaker's powerful

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00:37:46.160 That's S-P-R-E-A-K-E-R dot com. 0.96

00:37:50.060 Well, yeah, like we're going to have those same symbols, because where did the evil people

00:37:53.460 get those symbols from?

00:37:55.160 Well, they got it from the original restored, you know, the original church.

00:37:57.640 Well, if we were the restored church, where the original church brought back, then, well,

00:38:01.500 yeah, we're going to have the same symbols.

00:38:02.920 Yeah, more and more.

00:38:04.900 Didn't you guys have a guest on that talked about the code of colors, the code of markings?

00:38:09.840 Yes.

00:38:10.640 Yeah.

00:38:10.960 So we would believe that too.

00:38:13.080 And like, when God gives Adam the garment to cover himself, to cover his nakedness,

00:38:18.940 like, that's essentially what our garment represents, is that we're taking upon this covering, and

00:38:23.980 the atonement, that word, I think it's kippur, means covering.

00:38:27.600 So we're covering ourselves with Christ.

00:38:30.240 Shout out to Prometheus Lens Podcast.

00:38:31.880 He's the guy.

00:38:32.340 That's exactly who we're talking about.

00:38:33.140 Yeah, hey.

00:38:33.980 That's our guy right there, Justin Brown.

00:38:35.840 Shout out, Justin.

00:38:36.560 He's the man.

00:38:37.360 Awesome.

00:38:37.540 So do you guys believe that, though, that this coat that was given to Adam was stripped

00:38:42.420 from the Nakash in the garden, the serpent, and given to him?

00:38:46.820 Well, it's not doctrine, but I think there's definitely room for it to be true.

00:38:51.000 I'd say there's room for it.

00:38:51.820 Yeah, I think you get into trouble when you start putting yourself into rigid boxes, which

00:38:55.200 the Pharisees did. 0.90

00:38:56.340 Yeah.

00:38:56.960 It seems like the Bible, we've talked about this a lot, where it's like, it's given you

00:39:00.700 what you need to know, but there's so much that just wasn't, you would, the book would

00:39:04.760 never end.

00:39:05.280 It would be, you know, it would be the size of a sofa.

00:39:08.020 You would never get through it.

00:39:09.360 And so I agree with you.

00:39:10.560 You would never be able to bring it on a plane and give it to you, dog.

00:39:13.340 Yeah.

00:39:13.640 Yeah.

00:39:14.000 It's got to be able to fit in your nightstand when you go to a hotel.

00:39:17.460 So I agree with you.

00:39:20.120 Once you make it doctrine, that becomes problematic.

00:39:23.140 But I think I'm very open to the speculation.

00:39:26.680 It becomes a lot of fun, but it's a slippery slope.

00:39:28.560 That's the thing that I really like about the LDS Church is that we do have doctrine,

00:39:32.560 but then it's like even on every Sunday, it's like the people who are talking and getting

00:39:39.300 up at the pulpit and telling people what, you know, teaching, it's the people, it's

00:39:45.400 the members of the congregation.

00:39:47.220 So it's, we don't want to just have like one pastor who gets up there and says, this is

00:39:50.700 what we believe.

00:39:51.300 And this is why we believe it and hear the scriptures.

00:39:52.920 It's like, no, like one week, it'll be me.

00:39:55.060 Next week, it'll be Megan.

00:39:56.040 And the week after it'll be somebody else.

00:39:57.780 And so like, there's this open discourse, there's room for being wrong.

00:40:01.800 There's also room for exploring possibilities, not being called a heretic.

00:40:06.800 So you're doing, you're preaching.

00:40:09.400 When do you do church?

00:40:10.620 Sundays, Saturdays?

00:40:11.880 Yeah, Sundays.

00:40:13.080 So you are actually having a turn preaching or bringing forward.

00:40:17.340 That's an interesting, see, now I think this is one of my main issues with the common church,

00:40:22.760 like the church that I would have went to and my parents go to now.

00:40:25.880 Now, you go and there's one guy talking and he's probably good at his job and he's also

00:40:30.940 studied, he's got the correct credentials and stuff like that.

00:40:33.800 But I feel like the conversation is missing.

00:40:36.740 And unfortunately, people come to this show where we've said all kinds of crazies.

00:40:42.380 Actually, we just came up on another show the other day, yesterday, for being extremely

00:40:46.700 racist.

00:40:47.220 They referred any fans who are racist to this show.

00:40:50.880 But I get DM after DM.

00:40:52.320 Am I on the wrong show?

00:40:53.820 You're on the wrong show.

00:40:54.740 So this is a shout out to...

00:40:57.040 My heart goes out to you if you're on the show.

00:41:00.500 But it's like we're just kind of like allowing a discourse, talking back and forth.

00:41:06.340 And I feel like people get a lot more from that than this one way from like behind a pulpit

00:41:12.080 talking at you.

00:41:13.800 Right.

00:41:14.640 Yeah.

00:41:15.180 It's a little bit...

00:41:16.040 The best way to learn is to teach.

00:41:17.420 Like, if you really want to test how much you know, it's like you teach.

00:41:22.480 And I mean, I think it's a great way for people to learn.

00:41:24.700 Like, there have been times where people get up there and they start teaching.

00:41:26.900 And then afterwards, the bishop will like film.

00:41:28.960 So he's like, you know, hey, actually, like that's a little too far.

00:41:33.640 Like there's this one time there's...

00:41:35.180 We do test...

00:41:35.840 The first Sunday of every month we do...

00:41:37.260 It's called the testimony meeting where instead of like, you know, someone getting up there

00:41:40.800 and teaching, everyone in the congregation has the opportunity of going up there and

00:41:45.220 bearing their testimony.

00:41:46.140 So a lot of times it's kind of...

00:41:48.320 That's great.

00:41:48.960 I love that idea.

00:41:49.980 Yeah.

00:41:50.660 It can get wild.

00:41:51.700 And it's a fasting testimony meeting, you know?

00:41:54.600 So like everyone's fasting.

00:41:56.580 We're all side by side in this pursuit of, you know, coming closer to God.

00:42:02.480 And I never really did like the idea that there is supposed to be this hierarchy and

00:42:07.000 this one individual is the mouthpiece of God.

00:42:09.800 That's one of the things that gets me about Catholicism when it comes to the Pope.

00:42:12.520 It's like, it's essentially you're keeping the chair warm for Jesus Christ.

00:42:17.460 That feels strange to me because you're just an old man with a fish hat. 1.00

00:42:21.180 So I don't know.

00:42:23.160 I don't know.

00:42:23.820 I don't like that model.

00:42:25.940 And I learned...

00:42:27.280 I think that's a great observation, not nice guy.

00:42:29.600 If you want to learn something, you have to, you know, teach it.

00:42:34.560 And that was always something.

00:42:35.520 So as a martial artist, my boxing in particular got significantly better when I started teaching

00:42:41.700 boxing.

00:42:42.220 So this idea that you could have this cross-pollination of ideas and nobody gets cast out of it, I

00:42:48.420 think that's great.

00:42:49.140 I want to kind of go back for a second, though.

00:42:50.960 So I almost am surprised that...

00:42:54.540 Hi, I'm Darren Marlar, host of the Weird Darkness podcast.

00:42:57.560 I want to talk about the most important tool in my podcast belt.

00:43:00.880 Spreaker is the all-in-one platform that makes it easy to record, host, and distribute your

00:43:05.460 show everywhere, from Apple Podcasts to Spotify.

00:43:08.220 But the real game changer for me was Spreaker's monetization.

00:43:11.720 Spreaker offers dynamic ad insertion.

00:43:13.980 That means you can automatically insert ads into your episodes.

00:43:16.680 No editing required.

00:43:18.380 And with Spreaker's programmatic ads, they'll bring the ads to you, and you get paid for

00:43:22.540 every download.

00:43:23.360 This turned my podcasting hobby into a full-time career.

00:43:26.440 Spreaker also has a premium subscription model where your most dedicated listeners can pay

00:43:30.880 for bonus content or early access, adding another revenue stream to what you're already

00:43:35.280 doing.

00:43:35.760 And the best part, Spreaker grows with you.

00:43:38.360 Whether you're just starting out or running a full-blown podcast network, Spreaker's powerful

00:43:42.680 tools scale effortlessly as your show grows.

00:43:45.660 So if you're ready to podcast like a pro, and get paid while doing it, check out Spreaker.com.

00:43:51.300 That's S-P-R-E-A-K-E-R dot com. 0.96

00:43:55.320 Given the verse that you provided, Megan, that before you were in your mother's womb, I knew

00:44:00.260 you, that the Orthodox Christian Church doesn't believe that.

00:44:05.540 Do you know what they believe?

00:44:06.920 Do they have a strong stance against it?

00:44:08.680 Is it something that they just don't talk about that much?

00:44:10.900 Because it seems right on its face in the Bible.

00:44:13.280 I don't know what they believe.

00:44:14.240 I, well, I feel like it seems obvious to me certain things, but I, I don't know what

00:44:19.940 they believe.

00:44:20.580 That's why I came back to being a Mormon is because this is what makes the most sense

00:44:24.040 to me.

00:44:24.760 Can we, do you want to go through your journey really quick?

00:44:27.720 I mean, I think you were talking in the pre-show, not nice guy, about how you came back to the

00:44:32.880 church during COVID, but Megan, you've been in the Mormon church for your whole life and

00:44:38.140 then went away and came back.

00:44:39.800 So if you give us a brief synopsis on this, because I think that that's important in understanding

00:44:43.860 what this is.

00:44:45.500 Um, okay.

00:44:47.300 So I, my mom, um, and my dad both come from like pioneer age, but genetically Mormon is

00:44:53.400 not a thing.

00:44:54.120 So I have that ancestry.

00:44:56.220 Um, but wasn't ever like, I was rubbed the wrong way when Heidi said Mormon royalty, like

00:45:02.420 it's kind of antithetical to what it is to believe in the faith.

00:45:06.260 Um, so I was raised with like, they have very strong faith.

00:45:10.380 Um, we did what's called family home evening every Monday where they, you know, have family

00:45:14.960 led study, uh, of the scriptures.

00:45:17.520 And then eventually I went, I graduated early from high school, went to college.

00:45:21.120 I went to BYU, Idaho, which is a faith-based school.

00:45:23.660 And then I realized I don't actually have a faith of my own.

00:45:26.680 I was kind of leaning into my parents' faith and now I don't actually have a good class,

00:45:31.040 had like, you know, my first existential crisis and dropped out.

00:45:33.680 Um, and then I moved across the country to marry my husband, um, who was in the military

00:45:39.700 at the time.

00:45:40.680 And he had, he got baptized and he didn't tell me, which I'm grateful that he did because

00:45:46.100 I didn't want him to like change for me or, you know, join for me.

00:45:49.900 And then, um, there was a scripture in Ruth, cause it was kind of a contention between the

00:45:54.920 two of us.

00:45:56.080 Um, but there was a scripture, a scripture that's like when Ruth says to her, uh, mother-in-law,

00:46:00.760 like, I'll go where you go.

00:46:02.540 Your God will be my God.

00:46:03.680 I gave that to my husband in his ring.

00:46:06.020 Cause it's like, okay, I'm going to kind of submit to you and we'll do this together.

00:46:12.020 Um, and then his faith grew.

00:46:13.820 We both kind of grew together and we were kind of in, kind of out.

00:46:16.240 I had a unique experience.

00:46:18.180 Um, like we moved way more than we should have moved with the military.

00:46:22.280 It like 20 times.

00:46:24.460 And then we spent time living in Japan and we kind of attended churches all throughout.

00:46:28.600 So I feel like I got a really good understanding of what the gospel is outside of the culture.

00:46:34.340 Cause the culture in Utah, my, my, um, extended family grew up in Utah, my cousins, I was very

00:46:39.860 familiar with that and I didn't like it.

00:46:41.820 So one of the things that I loved about my husband is he didn't have that culture. 0.99

00:46:46.120 Um, yeah, so that's kind of, and then I had, you know, kids and that was like, I need to

00:46:52.000 either be in or be out.

00:46:53.660 I need to know, like, I need to dig into it.

00:46:55.520 So it, eventually it was me deciding to put in the work to really know what it is.

00:47:01.220 Um, and I still like, I love other faiths.

00:47:03.420 So I've gone to church with, you know, my Catholic friends and I've tried different things and

00:47:07.600 this is the one that makes the most sense to me, but that doesn't mean I don't love and

00:47:10.220 respect truth in other places.

00:47:12.680 That is a luxury.

00:47:15.280 Um, that, that sort of fence sitting, uh, that a lot of people will engage in.

00:47:20.680 And I'm not saying that this is what you did, but, uh, what you did do, which is why I'm

00:47:25.660 highlighting it is make this decision after children.

00:47:28.240 And that's like the big, I mean, that was in a huge way for me too.

00:47:32.300 I, I've always been a seeker and I've always been trying to understand, but once my son was

00:47:39.680 born, once I was, you know, married and everything, all those things came together and it, it does

00:47:44.760 something to like really light a fire, fire under your ass. 0.97

00:47:47.060 I think it just puts things into perspective in a huge way because now you are part of

00:47:51.940 something that transcends the physical, right?

00:47:54.660 Your relationship with your wife, your relationship with your children transcends the physical and,

00:48:00.000 and just that feeling alone, it urges you to like, seek a little bit more or, or at least

00:48:05.900 to not, um, not be lukewarm, right.

00:48:08.020 To, to pick something and to go towards it.

00:48:10.100 So I just find that a common theme in a lot of people's, it certainly wasn't my experience.

00:48:15.340 Well, and I, if you don't mind, I want to add, like I had two main experiences that kind

00:48:20.320 of solidified my faith.

00:48:21.520 So in 2008, 2008, when my husband and I were engaged, we were headed home to, um, from North

00:48:28.000 Dakota to Idaho and we were hit, um, we were hit head on, on the freeway, um, 80 miles per

00:48:36.040 hour and we rolled, like it was a fatal crash.

00:48:39.000 Um, the EMTs were like, we brought body bags, which EMTs should never say to people.

00:48:44.700 Yeah.

00:48:45.120 Yeah.

00:48:45.400 Yeah.

00:48:45.660 You want to keep that under wraps.

00:48:46.780 Don't freak people out.

00:48:47.900 So we walked away and that was like, you know, that's huge.

00:48:52.460 It was a miracle to me.

00:48:53.640 So, and then there were other little things that kind of solidified, okay, I know there's

00:48:56.600 a God.

00:48:57.200 And that's one of the things where I think faith is very, it's line upon line, precept upon

00:49:00.780 precept where you first, you know, faith in God.

00:49:04.280 Second, what comes next?

00:49:05.400 What can I know?

00:49:06.940 And I think what happened with Heidi is that she, and I don't know her, so this is just

00:49:11.180 me speculating, but like, um, when she says a lot of members leave and they become atheists,

00:49:16.520 that's because they don't have that foundation of like, what are you built upon?

00:49:20.360 If all you have is the Latter-day Saint faith and then you lose that, like, what are you going

00:49:25.420 to fall back to?

00:49:26.980 Yeah.

00:49:27.100 And that's not unique by the way, to the Mormon church.

00:49:29.200 That's every church, Catholicism, Christianity, it doesn't matter. 0.99

00:49:32.140 When you have a falling away, sometimes people in their own, like, pride and hubris, they

00:49:38.080 decide because this thing that I've identified as wrong, uh, was where I was before.

00:49:43.660 Well, now wherever I'm going is certainly right.

00:49:46.480 And, and usually it's in the polar opposite of whatever experience you had.

00:49:49.640 That's why I often say I was blessed to not have been raised in the church because I think

00:49:53.340 I have kind of a rebellious nature myself that I have to deal with.

00:49:56.320 And I could have easily pulled away from that, but I never had that baggage.

00:50:00.000 I like what not nice guy was saying before too, when it comes to like, what father doesn't

00:50:03.700 want his, his child to know.

00:50:05.300 And we're talking about this idea of faith.

00:50:07.380 Um, I think there is a shit ton you could know.

00:50:10.620 You could know a lot.

00:50:11.840 I mean, I am in the process of, of, uh, you know, getting to know more where I thought

00:50:18.040 I did previously.

00:50:18.940 And then, um, through whatever set of circumstances, I'm led to this, this, uh, this biblical narrative.

00:50:24.800 And I realized upon closer scrutinization that like, oh yeah, there's quite a bit you

00:50:29.620 could actually know.

00:50:30.640 And so that's a trope that exists outside of religion, um, that I'm very familiar with

00:50:35.120 where people, you, you think it's all faith, faith based.

00:50:38.460 It's like faith is a massive component about it.

00:50:40.920 And I don't think it has so much to do with, I don't know, um, believing something without

00:50:47.560 evidence as much as it has to do with, uh, trusting the father.

00:50:51.940 That's, that's really like when I hear faith, I hear trust the father, not like believe

00:50:56.520 shit without information that, that to me, but that's what a lot of people interpret

00:50:59.920 it as faith equals believe shit without information.

00:51:02.360 I think that's a misunderstanding.

00:51:05.040 Yeah.

00:51:06.200 That's why there's a distinction between blind faith and faith, right?

00:51:09.360 Like, yeah, I think, I think, I think just the fact that he's our father tells us a lot

00:51:13.420 about him, that he sees us as his children says a lot about us and says a lot about him

00:51:17.440 as well.

00:51:18.100 Like, oh, sorry.

00:51:19.640 We also believe like, we don't believe in a queen mother, but we do believe in a heavenly

00:51:24.040 mother.

00:51:24.640 Yeah.

00:51:25.060 Yeah.

00:51:25.280 That's something else that would.

00:51:26.840 Oh, let's, can we talk about that a little bit?

00:51:28.460 Cause that's been.

00:51:29.080 Yeah.

00:51:29.420 Yeah.

00:51:29.600 I want to get back on track with the, with the, what Mormonism is and also the differentiation 0.74

00:51:33.680 that you guys, what you disagree with, uh, with what Heidi presented, but please.

00:51:38.060 Yeah.

00:51:38.560 Before we do that, we gave these people an extra 15 minutes.

00:51:42.100 They don't deserve.

00:51:42.640 Um, guys, we are now going live exclusively to patreon.com backslash Nephilim death squad.

00:51:49.280 You can, however, continue watching along, enjoying an ad previewing experience as well

00:51:53.820 as gaining early access to this episode before the general public, you could even sound off

00:51:58.240 in the chat.

00:51:58.780 All you got to do is go over to patreon.com backslash Nephilim death squad, and you can

00:52:02.440 do it for free, for free, uh, for a limited amount of time.

00:52:06.640 So otherwise we will see you when this episode drops in its entirety.

00:52:10.940 Uh, so yeah, please let's, let's start getting back on this.

00:52:13.600 And, uh, I think we were, we were going into this idea of, of, uh, the mother, which is

00:52:18.020 fascinating.

00:52:18.920 I'd love to hear about that.

00:52:21.520 Do you want me to do it or not?

00:52:22.780 I don't want to do it.

00:52:23.600 Does it have anything?

00:52:24.340 Talk to me.

00:52:24.880 If it has anything to do with eggs, I don't want to hear it.

00:52:27.160 Uh, if it has anything to do with eggs, let's stop this episode.

00:52:30.520 We'll start another one.

00:52:31.360 We'll talk only about eggs from now on.

00:52:33.420 I'm very open to it.

00:52:34.820 Well, the seer stones were oddly egg shaped.

00:52:36.800 No, God, it's everywhere, dude.

00:52:39.300 I'm kidding.

00:52:41.220 Unbelievable.

00:52:41.880 So, oh yeah.

00:52:42.500 So like, well, cause we see like the entire LDS worldview, uh, theologically and otherwise

00:52:49.340 comes down to where we, we look at everything through the familial lens.

00:52:54.580 Everything's about family.

00:52:55.560 That's why heavenly father is our father.

00:52:57.060 And, you know, we're children of God and like Jesus is the son of God.

00:53:03.080 Um, like, I mean, even, even to the point, like we call, we call like people at church,

00:53:08.860 brother and sister, you know?

00:53:10.800 Right.

00:53:10.820 And, and just to bolster that, it's interesting that, um, we've identified here in 2025 now

00:53:16.800 that it seems the crucial component to the falling apart of the culture in the West is

00:53:21.140 the destruction of the nuclear family.

00:53:23.160 Yeah.

00:53:23.360 My show, my show on Monday, the parallel prophecies, that was, that was the one thread that went

00:53:28.340 through every single prophecy is before this third shaking before, um, like the end of

00:53:33.060 days, the book religion, like families are going to be destroyed.

00:53:35.720 Yeah.

00:53:36.120 Um, yeah, I can see that.

00:53:37.760 And then like, and there's, there's a reason for that because if you can destroy the, the,

00:53:41.700 the familial lens, the familial worldview, like that separates you from not just your family,

00:53:47.320 the people who you are closest to, but it also separates you from God because he's our

00:53:51.700 father.

00:53:52.620 Um, and so one of those things, right.

00:53:54.720 Where it's like the fractal nature of reality as above, so below, uh, that's a spiritual

00:53:59.380 principle that's been co-opted by, you know, dark art, occultists and shit.

00:54:03.440 But, um, like we said earlier, it doesn't seem that they can create, they can only invert and,

00:54:07.400 and co-opt.

00:54:08.260 So, uh, yeah, it makes sense to me what you're saying, not nice guy, that like the family

00:54:12.300 unit is as, and admittedly, I have been giving a lot of shit to this, like divine feminine,

00:54:18.660 this Mary worship stuff.

00:54:19.920 But I recognize that somewhere in this picture, uh, the mother has to fit in.

00:54:25.640 Well, I think there's like, there's a truth there, but it's maybe not the whole truth.

00:54:28.620 Right.

00:54:29.000 Um, but there is something important.

00:54:30.300 Like, this is something that I thought was interesting in, um, Genesis.

00:54:34.340 224, right?

00:54:35.460 Is it 224?

00:54:36.640 One of the first things that God does right for Adam is like one, he gives him a woman. 0.99

00:54:41.620 So he's not alone and to be supported.

00:54:44.280 Um, hi, I'm Darren Marlar, host of the weird darkness podcast.

00:54:48.340 I want to talk about the most important tool in my podcast belt.

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00:55:26.160 doing.

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00:55:42.060 That's S-P-R-E-A-K-E-R.com. 0.88

00:55:46.960 And he says this, therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave 0.99

00:55:50.660 unto his wife and they shall be one flesh.

00:55:54.040 Well, like Adam was the first man.

00:55:56.340 He was made from the dust.

00:55:58.080 How does he understand what a mother is?

00:56:01.020 Hmm.

00:56:01.380 Why, like he has no, he would have, he would have no understanding of what, like, what's

00:56:07.420 this mother idea? 0.70

00:56:08.160 Like you made me from the dust.

00:56:09.520 You made her from my rib. 0.75

00:56:12.140 Now you're talking about father and mother.

00:56:14.900 Like where, where, where does, where does he get this understanding?

00:56:18.900 And I think this is part of them either, either is left out or just, I don't know.

00:56:25.340 It's missing from here.

00:56:26.400 Washed from the Bible, like there, there was a female wife of, I don't know, Elohim in 1.00

00:56:35.460 the ancient cultures.

00:56:36.780 I think her name was Asherah.

00:56:39.340 I don't remember exactly, but they had like little stone statues of her that were surrounding 0.90

00:56:43.280 the temple.

00:56:43.980 And at first someone was like, oh, it's just a doll.

00:56:46.220 But it's like, no, no, no.

00:56:46.960 It was involved in worship.

00:56:48.200 There was this connection.

00:56:50.340 There's actually a Protestant woman who, in England, who talks all about that.

00:56:54.620 The LDS people love her because it lines up with our theology, even though she's not

00:56:58.360 part of it.

00:56:59.400 It makes sense to me because obviously you look at the way the feminine is portrayed

00:57:05.340 within the occult versus the masculine.

00:57:07.420 Masculine is often order and the feminine is often chaos. 1.00

00:57:11.180 And that kind of analogy will leave you thinking that the divine feminine, I'm using that in 0.99

00:57:16.940 air quotes, that's just kind of an esoteric terminology, is bad, right?

00:57:22.600 And that gets into the whole yin and yang and the, you know, the sort of the push and

00:57:27.400 pull of light versus darkness.

00:57:28.760 Jordan Peterson thing, yeah.

00:57:29.700 Yeah, but I don't know if that's where that argument belongs.

00:57:32.860 I don't know if that's where the feminine belongs in that discussion because there are 0.99

00:57:36.980 instead, it's almost like we've placed masculine and feminine.

00:57:43.260 Feminine's in the darkness, masculine's in the light, and that's the pull.

00:57:45.980 But I don't think so because masculinity has a duality, and that duality is order and paternal

00:57:53.340 love and structure or rage and destruction and murder and, you know, genocide and fucking 0.95

00:58:01.660 war.

00:58:02.280 Like, that's masculine, right?

00:58:03.420 And then you look at the feminine and it has that negative side, which is the Oedipal 1.00

00:58:08.320 mother, right?

00:58:09.140 This overbearing presence that corrupts ultimately, right?

00:58:13.560 That's fucking going to Jordan Peterson, the Oedipal mother. 1.00

00:58:17.220 But then there is the nurturing, the sympathetic, the empathetic, the love, like, it's a life

00:58:22.660 bringer, the life bringer.

00:58:23.960 So you need that.

00:58:25.300 I can see that as a recipe for the alchemy of this realm that we inhabit.

00:58:28.500 You need that.

00:58:29.740 But yeah, it's absent from the Bible, or at least as far as I've seen.

00:58:33.440 And I can't even claim to have read the whole Bible because I simply can't read.

00:58:36.480 So there has to be some place for the feminine in this conversation. 1.00

00:58:40.400 And I'm recognizing that as I move forward because I've been railing hard against it.

00:58:44.380 Well, and there's like, it's doctrine that there is a heavenly mother, but there's not

00:58:48.500 much doctrine about her.

00:58:49.960 And I think, and this is like kind of a speculation I've heard over and over again.

00:58:54.660 It's like, why don't you guys have your wives on your show? 0.99

00:58:57.360 Why don't you show their faces, say their names?

00:58:59.480 Like, well, there's going to be backlash that gives them, it gives people the opportunity

00:59:04.180 to attack them.

00:59:05.060 Yeah.

00:59:05.640 So like, I kind of see the lack of information about heavenly mother is a way of like, like

00:59:11.160 a, like the way a husband would protect his wife by not putting her out in the forefront.

00:59:15.500 But that doesn't mean she's not influencing.

00:59:17.060 That doesn't mean she's not a part of.

00:59:19.120 That's a fascinating theory because on this show, we've been talking a lot about how I

00:59:23.100 think previously I was not comfortable when I was, when I was a young agnostic kind of

00:59:27.700 the character, uh, I wasn't comfortable with looking at God in any way relative to the

00:59:35.680 human condition, because basically what struck me is like, how could we ever claim to know

00:59:41.060 the, the, the nature of what created this entire universe?

00:59:44.700 Now I'm realizing as I've moved on that the fractal nature kicks in as above, so below,

00:59:49.920 or a shout out to, let me find this one real quick.

00:59:53.360 Um, uh, I forgot who posted it.

00:59:56.720 I wanted to give them their, their flowers, but this idea of like, uh, as it is on earth,

01:00:00.940 so it is in heaven or, or, or something of that nature.

01:00:02.720 So I'm comfortable with that.

01:00:04.640 And, and I think that we can probably see, so that idea of like protecting your wife from,

01:00:09.660 yeah, maybe, maybe there's some aspect of that that's playing out.

01:00:13.200 Well, I mean, like tradition, I guess, traditionally speaking, I think there's a reason why men are 1.00

01:00:17.000 the ones that leave the home and they go out into the world and they face the dangers

01:00:20.560 and stuff on the outside and women are at the home, nurturing, growing, protecting, you 1.00

01:00:26.760 know, from a different lens.

01:00:27.800 And so it's like, if it is as above, so below, then like, there's a reason why the forefront,

01:00:32.600 the thing that we see is, is the man, right.

01:00:35.480 Is, is, is God and not heavenly mother.

01:00:39.600 Interesting.

01:00:40.400 Interesting.

01:00:40.960 Yeah, man.

01:00:41.800 But that's like, that's like speculation.

01:00:43.480 There's a lot of talk about it.

01:00:44.860 Um, but we do, we do believe that there's heavenly mother.

01:00:48.160 So that's one thing that for sure separates us from a lot of, we also believe in eternal

01:00:53.220 marriage, that marriage doesn't end with death. 0.51

01:00:56.560 Oh, that's good.

01:00:57.740 I like that.

01:00:58.060 There's no such thing as death, death to us part.

01:00:59.480 I do too.

01:00:59.620 So no remarrying, no, no divorce.

01:01:03.220 That's kind of thing.

01:01:03.980 That's it.

01:01:04.420 In habit?

01:01:04.920 And also it's not till death do us part.

01:01:07.240 It's fucking correct.

01:01:08.300 Oh, no, we, we, people can get divorced. 1.00

01:01:10.480 I mean, we don't encourage it, but like, it's very, very discouraged.

01:01:15.740 In fact, you should do everything that you can to have both people work on the marriage.

01:01:20.900 But like, I mean, it happens in order to undo.

01:01:25.660 So what we, our marriage, I don't know how to explain this.

01:01:29.000 Okay.

01:01:29.100 So in the temple, kind of our capstone, um, ordinance is called a ceiling.

01:01:34.100 So you can go through the temple and be married.

01:01:36.160 And the marriage is a ceiling between the husband and wife.

01:01:38.440 We don't like exchange rings in the temple, but we do take our vows there.

01:01:42.520 Um, and then in order, you can't undo that, but you have to request that from the first

01:01:48.000 presidency.

01:01:48.440 So that would be a like religious divorce.

01:01:51.240 Okay.

01:01:52.700 But the idea is that it doesn't end at death, right?

01:01:56.140 So, so conventionally here in the West, when you get married in, in, you know, most churches,

01:02:00.580 evangelical, whatever the, the ones that are, you know, really common, uh, it'll be until

01:02:04.940 death, uh, do us part.

01:02:06.560 And, and, and I admittedly, I don't even like that because remember when I said that

01:02:09.860 you feel a certain, um, spiritual aspect when you start a family unit where it's like, now,

01:02:14.800 you know, that there is a spiritual component to this.

01:02:17.560 You've got to pick a side, um, that spiritual component to me transcends this physical realm

01:02:24.100 in time.

01:02:24.600 Um, and so when I say that I'm, I'm marrying my wife, I look at much more in a spiritual

01:02:29.740 way.

01:02:30.660 Um, so yeah, at our vows or whatever we said till death do us part.

01:02:34.600 Cause that's what, you know, you're, you're told to say or whatever, but I don't want that.

01:02:38.800 I'd like her.

01:02:39.940 What's that scripture?

01:02:40.500 It's like, let, um, let no man divide what God has joined something along those lines.

01:02:46.900 Um, you know, marriage is so important, um, that you become one, you know, then, I mean,

01:02:56.460 and it was one of the first, one of the first things ever given to Adam, you know, it's like,

01:03:00.940 he's like, you leave his father, your, your father and your mother and cleave onto your 0.82

01:03:03.840 wife, become one flesh. 0.98

01:03:05.140 Uh, I don't know.

01:03:06.200 It's just like, there's, there's, we've definitely lost the reverence of marriage, especially in

01:03:11.100 this modern day.

01:03:11.740 Um, but it's like, if it was so important that it was one of the first things that God

01:03:17.780 told Adam, then, well, I mean, there's a, there's a spiritual importance to it that goes

01:03:22.740 beyond just this life.

01:03:24.780 Yeah.

01:03:25.360 Um, and it's also incredibly, it's hugely important to God marriage, right?

01:03:29.160 Because it's, it's a, it's a covenant that you're making to or with God, with God, I

01:03:35.000 guess.

01:03:35.380 Yeah.

01:03:35.780 And, um, so what we've discovered top and I is, you know, we do NDS Chronicles and we're

01:03:41.320 reading a lot of like paranormal testimony and you find this overwhelming, uh, pattern

01:03:45.960 that emerges.

01:03:46.840 And that is when people are, are telling us their story about this harrowing demonic experience,

01:03:51.780 it takes place sometime relevant to a divorce.

01:03:55.660 And I think that, you know, that is pretty obvious on its face, right?

01:04:00.820 You have broken this covenant with God.

01:04:03.560 And because of this, you've given yourself over to these entities influence.

01:04:08.800 I don't know what degree, it's like a gaping spiritual wound that's like open for infection

01:04:13.040 when you separate each other.

01:04:14.720 That's been like fused through this like divine covenant.

01:04:18.940 Well, why?

01:04:20.120 I know that one of the, uh, one of the criticisms of at least like older Mormonism was, uh,

01:04:26.160 polygamy or taking multiple wives, but it doesn't go the other way, right? 0.62

01:04:29.940 Like a wife. 0.95

01:04:30.740 What do you mean?

01:04:31.740 Oh, no, it doesn't.

01:04:32.500 Mad husband.

01:04:32.980 Yeah.

01:04:33.280 Yeah.

01:04:33.500 Even currently, um, I think you could, I'm, I may be wrong on this, but a woman can only 1.00

01:04:40.220 be sealed to one.

01:04:41.680 Right.

01:04:42.200 Right.

01:04:42.560 Okay.

01:04:43.180 Yeah.

01:04:44.320 Hmm.

01:04:45.060 Um, well, polygamy is kind of an interesting thing because a lot of people say it and be

01:04:48.560 like, oh, well, it's evil.

01:04:49.780 Monogamy is the only way.

01:04:50.840 It's the way God is.

01:04:51.600 So like, okay, what about all the people in the Bible who had multiple?

01:04:55.300 Yeah.

01:04:55.580 Yeah.

01:04:55.860 Jacob, Abraham, uh, Solomon, David, right.

01:05:01.140 So yeah, the 12 tribes come from like three different women or, or, or the question becomes,

01:05:07.480 um, well, there's a bunch of questions you can ask there.

01:05:11.100 Was that a function of the time?

01:05:13.380 And does it go away?

01:05:14.980 Like the idea that like after Jesus, it was no longer necessary to sacrifice.

01:05:18.540 Right.

01:05:19.020 And so certain things do change, uh, given, I guess the, the, the makeup of the reality

01:05:24.700 that we're in, um, could those things have served as important back in the day?

01:05:29.860 It'll come back again somewhere in the Bible.

01:05:31.520 It's like the women will like seven women will cling to one man and be like, let us at 0.99

01:05:36.100 least have your name.

01:05:37.080 Oh God.

01:05:37.480 Or am I making that up?

01:05:38.080 That sounds like a nightmare.

01:05:40.480 I know it's funny.

01:05:41.680 Megan and I were on like, we were on like, uh, different sides of this at one point.

01:05:47.040 And at first I was just like, yeah, you know, I think, I think, you know, man should

01:05:50.540 have multiple lines.

01:05:50.700 I see the function.

01:05:52.780 It makes a lot of sense.

01:05:53.960 And then like later on, I was like, man, screw that.

01:05:57.220 I like one is enough.

01:05:58.220 And then she's like, absolutely not.

01:06:01.680 Disappointing one woman on a regular basis is a heavy enough burden.

01:06:05.360 I don't need to disappoint a Hiram of, of seven women.

01:06:08.420 Thank you very much.

01:06:09.140 I'm good on that.

01:06:09.980 So to clarify with the early church, like one, it wasn't everybody practicing it.

01:06:13.580 You had to have permission to do it.

01:06:14.860 You had to be able to provide for all of the wives and it wasn't, um, I think it was a 0.97

01:06:19.400 necessity at the time.

01:06:20.200 So like Missouri had issued the extermination order where they're, you're allowed to kill

01:06:23.680 Mormons on site.

01:06:24.720 And then they are, um, we're going to put a, we're going to put a marker on that.

01:06:32.580 Please finish your, your, your, your, your, but there was a, okay.

01:06:36.100 What was it called real quick?

01:06:37.060 They put a hit on Mormons.

01:06:38.140 We're just going to say that.

01:06:38.640 Oh yeah.

01:06:38.960 Yeah.

01:06:39.280 Senator, I think it was Boggs, um, Lilburn Boggs in Missouri.

01:06:43.680 Missouri actually apologized not too long ago for that.

01:06:46.240 Yeah.

01:06:46.440 They didn't come back.

01:06:50.220 We're sorry.

01:06:50.880 We hunted you.

01:06:52.500 We're sorry.

01:06:53.280 We murdered you.

01:06:53.940 That's crazy.

01:06:54.680 Okay.

01:06:55.280 Yeah.

01:06:55.560 So, I mean, that's kind of why the LDS people feel like, I mean, they literally were

01:07:00.260 persecuted.

01:07:01.300 Right.

01:07:01.560 And then a lot of Christians are like, well, you don't, you can't be in the cool kids club. 0.69

01:07:04.080 So I've even had co-ops with, cause I homeschool my kids and they're like, well, you don't

01:07:08.360 believe the right way.

01:07:09.000 So you can't participate, which is fine.

01:07:10.600 Like, it's okay.

01:07:11.820 What were you guys doing though?

01:07:13.840 Hey, what were you guys doing?

01:07:15.260 Well, we were anti-slavery in a slavery state and we were coming in, in mass.

01:07:19.400 So like, I understand how that would be a threat.

01:07:21.860 Well, and we like, and we like burned a newspaper.

01:07:25.320 The printing press.

01:07:26.120 We burnt a printing press.

01:07:27.540 It was posting a bunch of like BS.

01:07:30.940 Hi, I'm Darren Marlar, host of the Weird Darkness podcast.

01:07:33.600 I want to talk about the most important tool in my podcast belt.

01:07:37.220 Spreaker is the all-in-one platform that makes it easy to record, host, and distribute your

01:07:41.800 show everywhere from Apple podcasts to Spotify.

01:07:44.560 But the real game changer for me was Spreaker's monetization.

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01:08:27.500 That's S-P-R-E-A-K-E-R.com. 0.88

01:08:31.380 Interesting.

01:08:31.920 I think it's kind of based.

01:08:33.080 I mean, seeing journalists these days, I'm like, well, I can understand the sentiment.

01:08:36.820 I do have, yeah, I got a little bit of empathy for that.

01:08:39.140 Yeah.

01:08:40.620 It just so happens that the publication that was burnt down was called The Daily Wire.

01:08:44.160 So, okay.

01:08:44.960 This is fascinating.

01:08:46.980 I can't believe they did that.

01:08:49.880 That's wild.

01:08:50.600 Hit jobs on Mormons. 0.96

01:08:51.900 They were killing Mormon people. 0.98

01:08:53.140 Wow.

01:08:53.600 What was this?

01:08:53.980 This was in Missouri?

01:08:54.340 So many cool stories.

01:08:55.440 Yeah, Missouri.

01:08:56.020 Yeah.

01:08:56.220 There was a guy named Porter Rockwell, and he was known as like the, what did they call

01:08:59.720 him?

01:09:00.440 The destroying angel of Mormondom, like the Latter-day Samson. 1.00

01:09:04.600 And Joseph Smith prophesied, like, as long as you don't cut your hair, no harm will come

01:09:08.460 to you, no bullet or blade.

01:09:09.720 And like, he died of old age.

01:09:11.260 There's so many cool stories.

01:09:12.880 Like, it's a pretty interesting religion.

01:09:16.040 Well, that's what, you know, I have, I don't have the baggage of being raised this or

01:09:21.740 that, and so I'm looking at, you know, Christianity, let's just say that includes like all the

01:09:26.760 denominations, as super fucking cool, because there's so much to learn there, and there's

01:09:32.520 so much that flies in the face of the narrative that we get from whatever propaganda machine

01:09:37.660 is pumping it out.

01:09:39.040 And when I look at Mormonism, like I said, even if, speaking of hit jobs, if that's what 0.95

01:09:44.800 Heidi did here, that wasn't what I came away, I was like, the motherfuckers are kind of doing 1.00

01:09:49.680 some cool shit, I don't know if, I'm not saying I'm going to become Mormon or anything

01:09:52.640 like that, but I'm like, they got fucking tech.

01:09:55.180 They got money, we got tech, we got tech, they got tech, they were hunted in Missouri,

01:10:01.440 now they got fucking, you know, magic artifacts.

01:10:04.220 I like that kind of shit, you know what I mean?

01:10:06.560 It's very Raiders of the Lost Ark kind of a vibe, so.

01:10:10.440 There's another girl, Alyssa Grenfell, she's an ex-mo also, and she, like people are actually

01:10:18.280 getting baptized because of some of these people, where they're like, oh, they, like,

01:10:22.820 it's a spark of something doesn't sound quite right here, like it's interesting, so I'm

01:10:26.080 going to learn more, and then they're like, oh, well, that was all BS, but I learned a

01:10:29.640 lot of cool things.

01:10:30.580 Yeah, yeah, yeah, man, okay, all right, this is an interesting one.

01:10:34.700 So Heidi's doing the Lord's work just in a roundabout way. 0.77

01:10:37.400 That's, I mean, yeah, and I can't really, I can't really fault people, because you see

01:10:43.240 that a lot, right, you're raised in a thing.

01:10:44.900 I'm not saying Heidi's right or wrong, I don't know, I don't have the information, that's

01:10:49.220 why we have these conversations, but I get it, you know, you're raised in one thing,

01:10:53.700 and then you find disdain for it.

01:10:56.380 That was actually a big fear of mine when me and my wife got together, because she's

01:11:02.180 an ex-Jehovah's Witness, but at the time that we got together, like I said, like marriage

01:11:06.840 and having a child really does something to you on a spiritual level.

01:11:10.380 So I had to very cautiously approach this idea of God with my wife, because she had

01:11:19.020 already been burned by one thing all her life.

01:11:21.900 You know, she had a very negative experience as a Jehovah Witness, and many people do.

01:11:25.800 You know, that's one you could do, you know, a shit ton of episodes on.

01:11:30.360 And so it was, I was cautious.

01:11:33.040 I have a lot of empathy for that.

01:11:34.280 I know people get burned when they're raised in a thing.

01:11:36.440 It's just, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, right?

01:11:39.920 Right.

01:11:40.360 Right.

01:11:41.260 Yeah.

01:11:41.760 Could I, could I, could I take a body break real quick?

01:11:44.700 Yeah, dude, go for it.

01:11:45.580 Go for it.

01:11:45.840 Let's just make Megan carry the whole show now. 1.00

01:11:47.780 Thanks a lot.

01:11:48.360 He does that to me all the time.

01:11:49.340 That's fine.

01:11:49.960 That's all right.

01:11:50.360 I was going to get up.

01:11:50.780 Just like, just like master.

01:11:52.380 Do Mormons think that they're, that they're the new Jew, that they are the Jews?

01:11:56.440 Do they think that they're the chosen people?

01:11:59.040 Kind of.

01:11:59.660 Yes and no.

01:12:00.160 So, um, in the Bible it talks about, um, and maybe this is, there's overlap between

01:12:06.660 the book of Mormon and the Bible and it talks about the first shall be last and the last

01:12:09.580 shall be first.

01:12:10.040 So like after the Jews rejected the gospel and they rejected the Messiah, then it will 1.00

01:12:14.680 be brought to the Gentiles, the people who didn't have it, which is symbolic when Christ 0.96

01:12:19.240 goes to the woman at the well and he's teaching, he reveals his mission to the Sumerians before

01:12:24.000 everybody else.

01:12:25.320 And so we believe that it was restored.

01:12:28.180 We would have been the Gentiles, like the people without the covenant first, but that, 0.98

01:12:31.780 um, everybody either belongs to or is adopted into the, one of the 12 tribes.

01:12:36.680 So like a lot of, I don't want to say white people because I could be wrong, but like, 0.73

01:12:42.060 for example, we have something called a patriarchal blessing and it will tell you what tribe you're

01:12:46.680 from.

01:12:47.020 So like I'm from the tribe of Ephraim, which is one of the sons of Joseph.

01:12:51.000 It's like Joseph had Manasseh and Ephraim.

01:12:53.040 And then Ephraim will be charged with bringing the gospel back to the rest of the world and

01:12:57.280 gathering the 12 tribes.

01:12:59.400 Does that sort of answer that?

01:13:01.860 Well, let me ask you this.

01:13:02.980 Um, uh, you know, this is because of my limited understanding of, of biblical information,

01:13:08.160 but, uh, what are the differences between the tribe?

01:13:11.200 Is there a, is there a, or from one tribe to the next, is it a, uh, doctrine difference?

01:13:16.880 I don't know.

01:13:20.800 I mean, I would think that there's, there's differences between people.

01:13:26.400 Like, obviously I'm not Asian.

01:13:27.840 So I would think that Asian would, would belong to a certain tribe. 1.00

01:13:30.560 I don't know if there's like, not nice guy.

01:13:32.960 Is there like a racial aspect to the tribes?

01:13:36.220 Or is it, is it a, a doctrine, uh, disagreement, you know, between the, I thought it, I thought

01:13:42.620 it was a, um, I thought at one point it was like a, like a racial thing, but it turns out

01:13:49.880 I've heard plenty of stories where like, even, even like brother and sister have been set

01:13:55.680 to different tribes.

01:13:56.380 So it's more of like a spiritual, like a spirit, like, yeah, it's like a spiritual tribe that

01:14:01.680 you belong to.

01:14:02.420 Is this, is this what Heidi is like kind of getting on about when she's talking about,

01:14:06.060 uh, um, I guess like the special lineages, because if I were to, uh, become, become Mormon,

01:14:13.080 I wouldn't be part of this tribe.

01:14:15.400 I'm Puerto Rican.

01:14:15.900 So I'd be, uh, some kind of mudblood, but I'm still embracing your religion. 1.00

01:14:19.900 Is there, is there like, you'd be, you'd be part of one of the tribes, like everyone.

01:14:24.420 So this is one of the things that I love most about this gospel is that we believe in the

01:14:28.280 Bible, when Christ said, I have other sheep, which are not of this fold, he visited all

01:14:32.340 of his children, like just because you weren't the chosen people of the beginning, like all

01:14:38.020 of God's children are essentially chosen people.

01:14:41.680 And so everyone belongs to something.

01:14:43.900 There's a, um, there's a story in the Bible talks about the grafting onto the olive tree.

01:14:49.780 Right.

01:14:50.360 And so like the Gentiles weren't originally a part of the olive tree, but we were

01:14:54.400 grafted on later.

01:14:56.420 And like, this is kind of like a spiritual adoption into the tribes of Israel.

01:15:02.640 So like you and me and Megan, like we're, we're all still God's children.

01:15:07.540 We're still all a part of the 10, the 12 tribes, probably the 10 tribes, because I think to

01:15:13.640 be a part of the Benjamin, well, there are 12, but then aren't the Jews and like Judah, 0.98

01:15:19.300 right.

01:15:20.820 And then Reuben lost the birthright.

01:15:22.540 And that went to Joseph and Joseph had two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim.

01:15:26.580 And the only one that wasn't one of the 12 was Levi.

01:15:28.840 I just looked this up because I don't think I don't think when you get your patriarchal

01:15:32.660 blessing, unless you are Jewish, that you're going to be part of the tribe of Judah. 0.98

01:15:36.440 Like, I think there's like a, there has to be like a actual genetic lineage for that.

01:15:40.560 I think with Levites too, because they have what we would call the lesser, like the lower 1.00

01:15:45.760 priesthood, they have the Levitical or Aaronic priesthood.

01:15:49.160 Oh, and that's important to know is like the priesthood we believe is the authority to

01:15:53.160 act in God's name.

01:15:54.140 And so if you believe in any sort of authority and you, it's all throughout the Bible, when

01:15:57.940 they talk about laying out of hands, setting apart callings, being ordained.

01:16:03.240 So if you believe in priesthood authority, it's either the Catholics or the Mormons, because 0.99

01:16:07.540 the Catholics have some sort of claim going back to Peter.

01:16:10.600 And then the Mormons claim is that it was restored. 0.79

01:16:15.760 Okay.

01:16:17.000 All right.

01:16:17.560 All right.

01:16:17.920 So interesting.

01:16:19.500 David, I was just asking them about a bloodline lineage is where they think they come from.

01:16:23.360 But, um, well, I wanted to ask something before, because, you know, you're, there's a speculation

01:16:28.500 about genetics and then obviously this comes up constantly within the Bible, right?

01:16:32.940 It seems that genetics is a huge component.

01:16:34.520 Um, and I know this isn't something that you guys or the church itself practices or believes

01:16:40.440 in anymore, but there was a time, uh, at least I saw a clip and I think not a nice guy probably

01:16:45.620 knows, uh, well, no, it's about, it's about, um, uh, white people.

01:16:49.660 And the reason there's the reason their skin was white is because they had picked a side,

01:16:55.200 uh, in this, in this sort of, uh, you know, uh, um, battle between good and evil.

01:17:00.760 And black people are black because that is a sign that says they didn't pick a side. 0.99

01:17:07.060 They're kind of neutral, uh, which kind of goes back to, even besides the hilarity of

01:17:11.160 that, uh, goes back to the idea that there was a side to pick before you were here in

01:17:15.640 a, in a physical way.

01:17:16.940 Yeah.

01:17:17.360 Right.

01:17:17.620 And so there at the war in heaven, I mean, that's part of our belief, like with the premortal

01:17:21.460 existence is like that war in heaven happened.

01:17:23.640 We were all there.

01:17:25.180 We were part of that war and we, I heard also like, um, I think this is doctrine.

01:17:32.060 There were no, there was no neutrality.

01:17:34.080 Yeah.

01:17:34.600 You were either hot or cold.

01:17:35.900 There was no lukewarm.

01:17:37.180 We call it keeping your first estate, coming to earth to receive a body. 0.96

01:17:40.240 And if you chose not to do that, then you essentially damned yourself.

01:17:44.300 Like you cannot progress without a body.

01:17:47.080 Fascinating.

01:17:47.520 So, so this idea that you have to pick a side, um, are you talking about people within

01:17:53.720 the Mormon church?

01:17:54.480 What about people outside of it?

01:17:55.680 Because there is, you know, precedent within the Bible for, uh, being told not to be lukewarm.

01:18:01.520 Now, does that necessarily mean that you didn't make a decision before you came here?

01:18:05.820 You then forget, and then you behave in a way that is lukewarm.

01:18:09.080 Just the fact that you're here and you have a body, you made a choice in the premortal existence

01:18:13.360 to, to at least not fight against God with Satan.

01:18:17.000 Um, like Satan doesn't have a body.

01:18:18.560 He was cast down before he had the opportunity to have a body because of disobedience.

01:18:22.240 He, he wanted, he wanted to take Jesus's place, but he wanted to save everybody.

01:18:26.000 And it would have been absolute tyranny because.

01:18:27.720 And take the glory.

01:18:29.640 Yeah.

01:18:29.860 You take all the glory and there would be no free will.

01:18:32.800 Jesus was like, father, your will be done.

01:18:35.860 And, you know, Satan didn't like that.

01:18:37.960 And then started the war.

01:18:39.160 So just the fact that we're here, we chose a side to accept the plan of salvation and

01:18:44.440 to come here, um, to, to go through all of this.

01:18:49.500 I would say no to black, white thing though.

01:18:53.160 But that's, yeah, that was something that was, was that the entire church or was that

01:18:57.380 just like individuals in the church?

01:18:58.980 It was a policy, not doctrine.

01:19:00.400 Well, and the priesthood ban was never policy.

01:19:02.120 It was actually like, um, precedent that was never fully threshed out.

01:19:06.720 Wait, wait, I'm talking about the black people thing.

01:19:09.360 Is that what we're talking about?

01:19:10.320 I would say that would be opinion of some people, but I don't know that it was ever,

01:19:13.900 it was speculation.

01:19:15.680 It's not something that you see now commonly espoused.

01:19:18.640 Yeah, correct.

01:19:19.300 Well, the church is growing like crazy in Africa, for example. 0.95

01:19:22.900 So, right, right.

01:19:24.020 So obviously they're picking a side spiritually.

01:19:26.620 Um, yeah.

01:19:27.880 So damn it.

01:19:29.140 There was something that I wanted to, to ask and it, uh, escaped me.

01:19:33.420 Give me a second.

01:19:34.020 We were talking about the genealogy thing.

01:19:35.920 No, it's, uh, it's, it's almost certainly gone now.

01:19:39.220 I've lost it.

01:19:39.880 I hear where that happens.

01:19:40.880 I had, well, I can come up with another thing that we separate ourselves from other

01:19:44.640 Christian faiths on.

01:19:46.980 What's that?

01:19:47.800 Would be the, the spirit world where you go when you die before the resurrection.

01:19:53.180 Um, so it's kind of, the Catholics have something similar to it.

01:19:56.540 They call it purgatory, but this is something that, I mean, we're talking about ghosts.

01:20:00.860 Yes.

01:20:01.080 Or, uh, I don't know about ghosts.

01:20:04.260 Well, okay.

01:20:05.040 So, so, but it's like your spirit.

01:20:06.760 So like when you, when you die, your body stays here, your spirit goes, depending on,

01:20:11.380 um, your baptism and the covenants that you've kept or the covenants that you made, you either

01:20:16.260 go to spirit paradise or spirit prison.

01:20:18.040 Spirit prison is kind of like what the Catholics call purgatory.

01:20:21.480 It's pre judgment, like just because we haven't, we, judgment day isn't here yet.

01:20:27.040 So like, you're not, you're like grandma and grandpa aren't in heaven or hell yet because

01:20:32.760 the judgment day hasn't happened.

01:20:34.780 So in the meantime, you're either in spirit prison or spirit paradise.

01:20:39.460 Um, if you're in spirit prison, people in spirit paradise, they come to the people in

01:20:43.800 prison and teach them.

01:20:44.680 And Jesus also in a new Testament says he'll, he was going to teach this.

01:20:49.500 I'm going to go to teach the spirits in prison.

01:20:52.420 It's first Peter three.

01:20:54.120 First.

01:20:54.500 Yeah.

01:20:55.300 Um, and then 18 through 20, I think.

01:21:00.720 Yeah.

01:21:01.160 First Peter three, 18, 20.

01:21:02.860 So, so what does the, the Mormon church make then of the concept of ghosts, right?

01:21:08.920 Because if you're, if you're saying there is a place where the dead go, you're either in

01:21:12.160 a spiritual prison or you're in a spiritual paradise, um, is, is it something that the

01:21:17.660 church, the Mormon church believes is familiar spirits and that's what people are seeing?

01:21:21.300 Or do they have any explanation for what, uh, ghostly encounters are?

01:21:26.100 I don't know.

01:21:27.540 Didn't you get arrested for ghost hunting?

01:21:29.640 I did get arrested for ghost hunting.

01:21:31.340 Uh, and get arrested for ghost hunting by the church by who?

01:21:35.160 No, no, not by the church.

01:21:37.240 I was like, whoa, what?

01:21:38.960 That's kind of cool.

01:21:39.660 Yeah, no, I was, I was, I got arrested for trespassing.

01:21:43.240 Oh, they tried to say I was doing something niggerish, like steal the copper wires out

01:21:47.340 of the wall or something like that.

01:21:48.860 I was just, I was just there to ghost hunt.

01:21:51.100 I don't know if the church has an official stance on ghosts, but we do believe that angels

01:21:54.560 are either pre or poor, pre or post-born people like angels or spirits.

01:22:00.060 Right.

01:22:00.260 Right.

01:22:00.420 So that's a, my next question about this guy, Moroni, the angel Moroni, I guess he leads

01:22:05.020 back to a lot of.

01:22:06.320 It's Moroni.

01:22:07.120 Moroni.

01:22:07.800 Moroni.

01:22:08.300 Okay.

01:22:08.400 But I like Moroni.

01:22:09.840 I'm sorry.

01:22:10.380 Yeah, I know he's Italian.

01:22:11.320 Sounds like a mob boss.

01:22:12.620 Yeah.

01:22:13.780 Hey, tell me, tell me about this guy.

01:22:15.980 I don't know what that is.

01:22:17.380 Moroni.

01:22:17.980 How dare you date it?

01:22:19.480 Macaroni.

01:22:20.400 Moroni is the son of Mormon. 0.84

01:22:21.980 He, he is the person that compiles all of the books together that have been passed down

01:22:26.560 through the generations because one of the things that the people do is they keep a record so

01:22:30.920 that they can pass on their both familial heritage genealogy stuff.

01:22:36.100 And then also like the inspiration from God.

01:22:40.060 Yeah.

01:22:41.140 Yeah.

01:22:41.380 Yeah.

01:22:41.400 The words of the prophets and everything.

01:22:42.660 So like the book of Mormon isn't just one book.

01:22:44.180 It's actually a compilation of many books.

01:22:46.960 Um, and so you have two parts to the book of Mormon.

01:22:50.400 You have what they call the small place and then the large plates, the small plates, if

01:22:54.220 I'm not mistaken, are like Nephi and Lehi.

01:22:57.500 They came to America, um, and his children. 1.00

01:23:00.320 And then there's like an abridgment.

01:23:02.300 So I think it's Mormon. 0.83

01:23:04.040 That's why it's called the book of Mormon is because Mormon is the one who took the plates 0.99

01:23:07.420 and abridged everything, you know, shortened it, kept all the important stuff, uh, and

01:23:13.240 compiled like the plates for Joseph Smith in the, in the future.

01:23:19.920 Yeah.

01:23:20.060 And then the war between the Lamanites and the Nephites were essentially like the main 0.88

01:23:23.800 peoples.

01:23:24.600 They were essentially brothers and then generations later, there are these groups that hate each

01:23:29.720 other and they, as they ended up killing each other.

01:23:33.780 So the Lamanites killed off all of the Nephites and Moroni would have been the last or one of 1.00

01:23:37.860 the last Nephites.

01:23:38.980 And so it was his job to carry forth the record and then to keep it safe.

01:23:43.380 And then he was the one that came back to Joseph Smith and said, okay, we're going to

01:23:47.860 finish this work.

01:23:49.180 Okay.

01:23:49.280 Moroni came back.

01:23:50.160 So you guys think that people in this waiting place could also come back as angels or is

01:23:55.580 this, is this just specific to this one guy?

01:23:57.460 Cause he was some sort of a, Oh no, we definitely believe people can come as angels.

01:24:01.260 I mean, Gabriel comes to Mary and.

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01:25:04.240 No, I mean, I mean like people, like human beings who then pass on could be resurrected

01:25:09.720 as an angel, as an Elohim.

01:25:11.920 Well, that's pre-resurrection.

01:25:13.980 So, because they don't have a physical body because the judgment day hasn't happened yet.

01:25:17.120 So it's there is, I guess it would be like an edified spirit or, I mean, I don't know

01:25:22.760 how to necessarily like frame it, but yeah, there'd be the people who would be in paradise

01:25:27.320 who lived righteously, who did the Lord's work.

01:25:31.500 So basically, so that guy, uh, the angel Moroni, he is man, but not, but like, like

01:25:40.660 representing himself as a, like this edified spiritual entity, or is he an angel?

01:25:44.840 Because I've heard that he's an angel that is, I'm trying to, how are you defining angel?

01:25:50.180 Yeah, I was just going to say, cause I, like angel in my mind is Elohim, no?

01:25:54.940 Uh, like a high rank spiritual entity.

01:25:57.600 Something that was created before humanity that's, uh, created directly by God doesn't

01:26:01.860 really have free will.

01:26:03.180 Uh, that would, that's what I classify as an angel.

01:26:06.080 Okay.

01:26:06.660 We don't see it that way.

01:26:08.460 That way.

01:26:08.780 Yeah.

01:26:09.400 Okay.

01:26:09.620 How do you, how do you look at them as?

01:26:11.220 Angels are the spirit or like the spirits of man that were righteous effectively.

01:26:17.600 And how do you, how does, does Mormonism come to that conclusion?

01:26:20.860 Yeah, more like a saint.

01:26:22.300 Yeah.

01:26:22.840 Huh?

01:26:24.180 Um, how does Mormonism come to that conclusion?

01:26:29.000 How do we come to that conclusion?

01:26:30.780 Um, that's a good question.

01:26:32.740 Um, let me look it up.

01:26:34.980 I don't want to misspeak.

01:26:36.760 Well, while, while, uh, I don't, I don't, I don't know enough about that particular, um,

01:26:41.160 well, while she checks that out, I do want to say that that idea of being here before

01:26:45.600 is, is, is, is really, uh, stuck with me existing before you had a physical body.

01:26:51.340 Um, that's something that a lot of people do.

01:26:54.320 Sorry, David.

01:26:55.040 Do Mormons, uh, does, does Mormonism like discredit or, uh, discard the book of Enoch,

01:27:01.700 the book of Jasher, like these two specifically, cause they are mentioned in the Bible in this.

01:27:06.700 No, not at all.

01:27:07.640 No.

01:27:08.040 Well, like we don't believe that all of the Apocrypha is a hundred percent true.

01:27:11.220 Like even in the book of Mormon, it says, if there'd be heirs, they're the heirs of men, 0.75

01:27:15.000 not the heirs of God.

01:27:16.320 And what they're finding, which is pretty freaking awesome, is that a lot of the stuff in the

01:27:19.920 Apocrypha or the Apocryphal texts, um, align with the book of Mormon, but it's missing in

01:27:25.260 the Bible.

01:27:25.820 So it talks about like how the Messiah was prophesied of, it even says like, you've stoned

01:27:30.060 my prophets, you've killed them, but then it doesn't give the examples.

01:27:33.100 It talks about, they stoned false prophets, but it doesn't show where they actually were stoning

01:27:37.480 the prophets that were prophesying of the Messiah.

01:27:39.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:27:39.720 It's like these things were taken out.

01:27:41.820 And so it shows the Apocryphal texts and the book of Mormon have like a common ancestor

01:27:46.120 where they're getting more information that we may not have.

01:27:49.300 Yeah.

01:27:49.660 I'd always wondered that too.

01:27:50.540 Cause like Jesus said, it's like, Oh, you stoned the prophets.

01:27:52.800 You didn't listen to them.

01:27:53.580 You persecuted them.

01:27:54.580 And then you go and read the old Testament and you're like, where's that?

01:27:58.520 Like, where's that present?

01:27:59.580 Like, they don't, they don't talk about that.

01:28:01.300 Um, I mean, Jeremiah was like arrested a bunch of times, but he wasn't stoned.

01:28:04.540 He was put in stocks, right?

01:28:05.420 He was never.

01:28:05.840 Yeah.

01:28:06.120 Well, uh, just going back to what I was saying before about this idea of being, uh, you know,

01:28:12.660 existing in some way, shape or form before you have a physical body and there's scripture

01:28:16.400 to back that up.

01:28:17.520 Um, that's something that resonates with me, but it also resonates with a lot of other

01:28:21.460 people.

01:28:21.660 Like even within the new age movement or somebody that isn't necessarily adhering to some

01:28:25.640 denomination of Christianity or something like that.

01:28:27.620 Uh, you see that sentiment espoused.

01:28:30.800 So it's, it's a common theme, uh, from, from strict religious doctrine to new age, Gnostic

01:28:38.160 practices.

01:28:38.720 And, and, you know, just because it resonates with them or it's part of their narrative doesn't

01:28:43.360 mean that it is, uh, inherently bad, right?

01:28:45.880 Because oftentimes these, these new age or these Gnostic principles are like we said before,

01:28:49.860 just inversions of, of God's principles and God's laws.

01:28:52.800 Um, but it's something that even strikes me as, um, I feel, and I don't know how to,

01:28:58.780 I into it or in, in, you know, in my heart on some level feel like, yeah, uh, we chose to

01:29:04.280 be here during this time.

01:29:05.600 That specifically is something that really resonates with me that we chose to be here in

01:29:11.240 this time, uh, during these days before we were ever put here.

01:29:15.240 Right.

01:29:15.420 Because like, if we truly have free will, then we're not here against our will.

01:29:19.220 What a lot of people like to, a lot of people like to say, it's like, well, I, no, I didn't

01:29:23.780 ask to be born.

01:29:24.860 It was like, well, we believe you did.

01:29:27.940 And that's what we, we kind of answered that problem of suffering in a couple of ways, not

01:29:32.680 just that we believe that God is omniscient, omnipotent, but not just that he can do all

01:29:37.100 things, but he can do all things that are possible to do.

01:29:39.540 So like there's an eternal law that exists outside of God and he is God because he is the

01:29:44.400 fullest truth, goodness, all of those things.

01:29:48.500 But that, do you want to?

01:29:50.740 Yeah.

01:29:51.160 Well, I've been thinking about this a lot lately because that'd be considered blasphemy to

01:29:55.800 a lot of people.

01:29:56.420 Like, oh, you're saying God can, but people like to ask the question, like, can God create

01:29:59.740 a stone so heavy that even he can't move it?

01:30:01.920 And I'd go, no, that's nonsense.

01:30:04.840 And like God, if God is truth, then he can't behave in a way that's nonsensical.

01:30:10.520 Yeah.

01:30:10.920 That almost feels like a gay debate tactic. 0.94

01:30:13.880 What is, it's usually like an atheist tactic.

01:30:16.280 Yeah.

01:30:16.760 The absurdity.

01:30:17.920 Yeah.

01:30:18.200 It's the absurdity.

01:30:18.880 But like God isn't a God of absurdity.

01:30:20.900 And so like, well, does that mean that he can't do absurd things?

01:30:24.260 Well, I would say he can't do absurd things.

01:30:26.040 I mean, it may seem absurd to us without like an understanding, but like he would, he would

01:30:32.160 cease to be God if he ceased to be truth.

01:30:35.620 Right.

01:30:36.280 And like nonsense isn't truth.

01:30:37.920 And so like, there are a lot of things like that.

01:30:39.940 Like, I don't think God can do evil and still be God.

01:30:44.640 Right.

01:30:45.040 But we can misconstrue something and determine that it was evil, but in our limited information

01:30:49.680 or to grasp a concept.

01:30:52.380 Like those are the things that I think are like the actual mysteries.

01:30:55.100 I don't think like, like God is, is a mystery of like who he is.

01:30:58.820 Like he's our father.

01:30:59.600 He loves us unconditionally.

01:31:01.260 Like he has this plan for us.

01:31:02.740 He gave his son.

01:31:03.360 Like that, that says a lot about him.

01:31:04.920 I think the mysteries would be like, well, we don't necessarily know how he heals the

01:31:09.080 sick or how he, you know, moves mountains or created the world.

01:31:13.240 There's some things that we're not supposed to know, right?

01:31:15.480 There's a reason that we forget.

01:31:17.200 Like if we truly did choose to be here, well, in order for us to develop or, or be able to

01:31:21.960 actually choose God, we have to forget all of that stuff.

01:31:25.000 Right.

01:31:25.200 And so I could see that a lot of things would be purposely obfuscated for us for our development

01:31:30.180 and also so that we can make a, an actual decision based in free will, because if you

01:31:35.180 know too much about the nature of this reality, then that kind of removes your ability to

01:31:40.380 come to your own decisions.

01:31:41.780 You can't have faith if you know something.

01:31:43.600 Exactly.

01:31:44.300 And like, this is actually something that we believe that might be different than other

01:31:47.340 people's.

01:31:47.820 Like one, we believe that in the primordial existence, when we came here to earth, we

01:31:51.560 passed through the veil.

01:31:52.440 This is why we don't have a memory of all the things that happened before.

01:31:58.180 She wasn't, I was about to say something else.

01:32:00.460 Well, when you, while you think of that, I just want to say that, um, I almost, almost

01:32:05.460 want to jump to believing that we were here or we were, we did exist before we were here

01:32:10.020 because when you're a child, especially, well, I know when I was a child, but this isn't

01:32:15.100 unique to me.

01:32:16.100 Whenever you get like, let's say you get grounded by your parents, right?

01:32:18.780 And, and you start throwing your little hissy fit and it always manages to escape.

01:32:23.640 I don't know anybody that this hasn't escaped their lips at some point, or at least cross 1.00

01:32:27.380 their mind when they were a child is like, I didn't even ask to be born.

01:32:31.640 This isn't fair.

01:32:32.540 Like that kind of shit.

01:32:33.460 And like, that is the, the thinking of a, of a, of a naive child.

01:32:37.120 And so, um, you know, there was a video that I was watching where a guy was, uh, defending,

01:32:43.860 he was, he was talking to Jake Paul and Jake Paul's talking about like, oh, well, you were

01:32:47.300 born, uh, one way and somebody else who's gay was born another way. 0.61

01:32:51.980 And therefore like what God made them that way, just the way that he made you.

01:32:55.480 And then the guy goes, actually, no fucking shut up, stupid.

01:32:57.640 Um, there, when I was a child, I smashed my friend in the face with a metal fire truck

01:33:03.740 because he wouldn't share with me or was annoying me.

01:33:07.020 So, so my predisposition when God made me, if that's your argument is one of like violence

01:33:12.480 and lashing out and, you know, uh, whatever, just, just, just, uh, childlike behavior.

01:33:17.660 And then we're, we're called to elevate above that and to choose God over our own sin.

01:33:23.180 Um, and so, uh, you know, much of what we are, how we behave as children is, you know,

01:33:29.860 our natural state, right?

01:33:31.360 Everybody's like, it's natural.

01:33:32.340 It's good.

01:33:32.760 It's our natural state to be like that.

01:33:34.340 And then we work from that point to become better.

01:33:36.700 So it just strikes me as significant that while we're in that perceived natural state,

01:33:40.560 we're bitching and moaning about like, I didn't even ask to be born, which is hilarious

01:33:45.000 because if the answer to that truly was, yes, you did.

01:33:48.540 You fucking dummy.

01:33:49.660 Then that is incredible.

01:33:51.580 I love that.

01:33:52.380 Well, and also it's, um, you know, we're, we're spiritual beings having a physical experience,

01:33:57.320 not physical beings having the occasional spiritual experience.

01:34:00.440 So it's like, like, I think that changes perspective in a lot of ways for a lot of people.

01:34:04.920 Yes.

01:34:05.460 Yeah.

01:34:05.740 I would, I would agree with that.

01:34:06.520 Someone pull up revelations 12, seven, 12, seven.

01:34:10.680 Yeah.

01:34:11.440 Oh yeah.

01:34:12.140 Uh, it's about the, the angel part, right?

01:34:14.360 Um, while you're pulling that up, I also wanted to say the thing, the thing I was going to

01:34:18.460 say earlier was that, um, we, we don't think that like hell, we think outer darkness and

01:34:23.820 hell are different.

01:34:24.580 And so not a lot of people that we know of are probably going to outer darkness because

01:34:30.080 that would require to commit the unforgivable sin, which is blaspheming against the Holy

01:34:34.520 Ghost, which we believe would be like, if Joseph Smith had this, actually had this vision and

01:34:40.220 God and Jesus appeared to him.

01:34:41.560 And then he went, nah, not for me, bro.

01:34:43.860 Well, he didn't have faith.

01:34:45.040 He had knowledge and he rejected the knowledge.

01:34:47.720 So that was like an active, uh, choice of rebellion.

01:34:51.200 And that would, that would be like the preconditions to be, uh, going to outer darkness, which you

01:34:58.260 could talk about the witnesses of the golden plates and how they never denied or recanted

01:35:01.440 their testimonies, even putting it on their tombstones, even after they left, like the

01:35:05.780 official church, they never took it back.

01:35:08.920 Yeah.

01:35:08.980 There are eight witnesses to the place.

01:35:10.340 There were four witnesses to, uh, to angels that are all documented.

01:35:15.020 And who, who are these witnesses?

01:35:16.940 Um, do they end up holding a high place in the Mormon church?

01:35:19.740 Most of them walked away, but still admitted it.

01:35:23.620 The witness testimony is in the beginning of that book that not nice guy gave you.

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01:36:24.540 That's S-P-R-E-A-K-E-R.com. 0.88

01:36:27.960 You can read their testimonies for yourself.

01:36:30.040 Oh, oh, oh.

01:36:30.840 Is that in the Book of Mormon?

01:36:32.380 Mm-hmm.

01:36:33.020 Yeah, it's like a very opening.

01:36:35.320 I mean, you don't have to read the whole thing.

01:36:36.980 It's fairly long.

01:36:37.440 Testimony of the Three Witnesses.

01:36:38.600 Testimony of the Eight Witnesses. 0.66

01:36:40.100 Yep.

01:36:41.180 It says,

01:36:41.980 Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people unto whom this work shall come

01:36:47.380 that we, through the grace of God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates

01:36:51.840 which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi.

01:36:55.700 That's interesting.

01:36:56.980 Nephi, not Nephi. 0.98

01:36:58.780 It's just like the root word, right?

01:37:01.180 And also of the Lamanites.

01:37:04.140 Lamanites? 0.91

01:37:04.720 Lamanites? 0.91

01:37:05.400 Lamanites.

01:37:06.120 Lamanites.

01:37:06.620 They ever fucked that up three times in a row, huh?

01:37:08.100 They're brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came to the tower of which hath

01:37:14.100 been spoken.

01:37:15.180 Man, this is a fucking...

01:37:16.280 So what are they...

01:37:17.020 Who are these people, and what ends up happening to them?

01:37:20.360 This is Oliver Cowdery.

01:37:23.620 Oliver Cowdery.

01:37:24.260 Martin Harris.

01:37:25.280 And David Whitmer.

01:37:26.640 And then the other...

01:37:27.380 They helped translate the record.

01:37:28.720 Uh, the record being the tablets.

01:37:31.560 Yeah.

01:37:32.240 The book you're holding.

01:37:33.280 Yep.

01:37:33.900 So, um...

01:37:34.720 Well, it's funny.

01:37:35.260 A lot of the people that were coming after Joseph at the time, they didn't deny that he 0.95

01:37:38.400 had the gold plates.

01:37:39.280 They wanted them for themselves, because they thought the treasure was the gold itself,

01:37:42.060 and not what was contained on it.

01:37:44.220 Right, right.

01:37:44.940 What language was it written in?

01:37:48.720 That...

01:37:49.720 Would it have been, like, an Enochian? 0.99

01:37:51.960 Like, an angelic language?

01:37:53.300 I think it was a form of Egyptian, like, reformed Egyptian.

01:37:58.380 Interesting.

01:37:59.160 Maybe, uh...

01:38:00.920 Because at the time that Nephi's family left Jerusalem...

01:38:05.300 Never mind.

01:38:06.880 I'm speculating.

01:38:07.480 I don't know.

01:38:08.440 Hmm.

01:38:09.180 Interesting.

01:38:09.820 Interesting.

01:38:10.220 What happened to the plates?

01:38:13.020 They were taken back.

01:38:14.280 Yeah.

01:38:14.580 We believe the angel took them back, which I know is such, like, uh...

01:38:17.600 It'd be so easy if they were here.

01:38:19.320 You know, if spiritual beings bought these, then spiritual beings...

01:38:24.220 That's not really...

01:38:25.140 That doesn't concern me at all.

01:38:26.880 I just wonder, like, what does the...

01:38:28.500 What's the church's stance on what happened to the plates?

01:38:30.420 Is there an official narrative?

01:38:32.620 Yeah, that they were taken back.

01:38:34.140 Yeah, they were taken back.

01:38:35.300 And why would they have been taken back?

01:38:37.840 Do you know?

01:38:40.060 I could speculate.

01:38:41.800 I don't know.

01:38:43.360 I think the speculation would be...

01:38:45.200 Because even if we had the gold plates, we showed people...

01:38:47.320 It's not going to make people believe.

01:38:50.180 They'll see the gold plates, and they'll be like, well, it could be...

01:38:53.040 It could say anything on these plates, and then you could have other people come and

01:38:55.760 translate it through the knowledge of men, and then they could be like, well, that's

01:38:59.220 not what the book says.

01:39:00.700 And so, like, there's also a part of the plates that were sealed that we still don't

01:39:05.700 have that were translated.

01:39:07.280 And Martin Harris lost 116 pages.

01:39:09.980 Yeah.

01:39:10.720 They were an asshole.

01:39:13.120 Yeah.

01:39:13.480 Well, he begged.

01:39:14.640 He wanted to show them to his wife, and he begged Joseph Smith over and over and over

01:39:17.520 again.

01:39:17.840 And Joseph Smith went to God, and God said no.

01:39:19.460 And then he kept being bothered.

01:39:21.360 So eventually God was like, okay, do what you're going to do.

01:39:23.720 And so he gave them those pages.

01:39:26.740 The manuscript, yeah.

01:39:27.460 And then they were lost.

01:39:28.260 And then he wasn't able to translate.

01:39:30.460 He lost all his gifts, and he felt like he was going to be damned to hell and had to

01:39:34.380 really repent and...

01:39:38.000 He went a long time without...

01:39:39.520 Yeah.

01:39:39.700 I went ahead and asked the demonic spirits that inhabit AI, why did the angels take back

01:39:46.860 the golden tablets?

01:39:47.540 It says, according to the Latter-day Saint faith, the angel Maroni took back the golden

01:39:52.260 plates from Joseph Smith.

01:39:53.420 Maroni.

01:39:53.620 I'm sorry.

01:39:54.300 It's okay.

01:39:54.980 It looks like macaroni.

01:39:55.860 It looks like, phonetically, it looks like the word macaroni.

01:40:00.520 My mistake.

01:40:01.540 Golden plates from Joseph Smith after he translated them because the plates were a sacred record

01:40:05.800 meant to be used for the translation and not kept permanently, and to ensure their protection

01:40:11.840 from those who might try to misuse them for worldly gain.

01:40:15.440 Okay.

01:40:15.740 So that kind of...

01:40:16.460 It's interesting because it seems like they bought you.

01:40:18.960 They're like, hey, this is ours, but you could fucking translate it.

01:40:21.720 But as soon as you're done, we're taking the shit back.

01:40:23.700 Taking it back.

01:40:24.260 Yeah.

01:40:24.600 Can I...

01:40:25.120 Let me ask you a question.

01:40:26.000 Jump back to...

01:40:26.900 Go ahead.

01:40:28.100 All right.

01:40:28.600 Yeah.

01:40:28.720 Just real quick.

01:40:29.640 Put a pin in that.

01:40:30.320 But not nice guy.

01:40:31.840 How does the Mormon church feel about you listening to our show, to this show, or at least being

01:40:38.520 a fan of it?

01:40:39.360 And it's not necessarily what we...

01:40:42.080 We obviously brush the lines and touch the third rail a little bit, but that's nonsense

01:40:46.500 in my opinion compared to the things that we're talking about and what we possibly do believe.

01:40:51.500 So one of the major departures would be this idea of fallen angels and things like that.

01:40:55.920 I don't advertise that I watch this show, so I don't know exactly what they would

01:41:00.300 tell me.

01:41:01.200 But I mean, they respect my agency and they caution people to avoid certain topics and

01:41:06.840 speculations because a lot of times those things can be pathways to apostasy, to losing

01:41:13.060 your faith.

01:41:15.760 Not to not ask questions.

01:41:17.620 Yeah.

01:41:17.800 Not to not ask questions.

01:41:19.200 I mean, it's not like I'd be damned.

01:41:20.660 I'm not a member in good standing as is, so...

01:41:24.120 What's going on there?

01:41:25.040 What did you do?

01:41:25.500 What did you do?

01:41:26.620 I got kicked out.

01:41:27.700 I got kicked out.

01:41:29.300 Adultery.

01:41:30.300 Uh, premarital relations.

01:41:32.900 Is that why?

01:41:34.020 That's why, yeah.

01:41:35.300 You could.

01:41:36.420 Unbelievable.

01:41:36.780 Yeah, I couldn't keep it in my pants.

01:41:39.360 Getting pissed.

01:41:40.240 All right.

01:41:41.100 Unbelievable.

01:41:41.700 How do you get back into the church?

01:41:45.200 Like, to get back into good standings, at least?

01:41:47.000 Well, I'd have to go, like, a period of time without engaging in those activities and,

01:41:50.900 you know, repent.

01:41:51.500 So, um, most repentance can be done, you know, through prayer and, and, you know, personally,

01:41:56.940 but, like, the greater sins, like adultery and stuff, involves, like, a confession to

01:42:01.560 your bishop.

01:42:02.320 So, this is what I did.

01:42:03.300 I confessed to my bishop.

01:42:04.420 I told him what I'd been doing.

01:42:05.720 I'm not worthy to hold the priesthood, take the sacrament, things like that.

01:42:09.120 Um, and so, they, you know, they hold a council.

01:42:14.540 They say, okay, well, you still want to actually be here?

01:42:18.080 I'm like, yeah.

01:42:19.540 Um, well, then, you know, here's, here's, like, some, some restrictions until you can,

01:42:26.160 you can get yourself straight.

01:42:27.640 So, there's a path to redemption.

01:42:29.060 Yeah, there's a path.

01:42:30.340 I would hope so, because that's obviously the, the massive overarching theme in, in

01:42:34.420 Christianity is redemption.

01:42:35.500 So, uh, you know, if that's what we're seeking, abstain from the sin, which is, which I'm

01:42:40.300 not doing still, because I'm, I'm engaged in, before I had start, started going back

01:42:44.640 to church and being faithful again, I was already kind of, like, engaged with her.

01:42:48.800 So, um, once we get married, you know, I'll go back to the bishop and say, hey, you know,

01:42:54.180 we're not, we're not adulterating, you're not fornicating anymore.

01:42:57.680 We're married.

01:42:58.540 Yeah.

01:42:58.980 Um, and then you still go, you still go there weekly, I suppose.

01:43:02.520 Yeah.

01:43:02.900 Yeah.

01:43:03.400 I still go weekly.

01:43:04.220 Okay.

01:43:04.960 And it actually makes it, listen, uh, it makes a lot of sense.

01:43:07.680 Um, I think it's, uh, no, it's true.

01:43:10.480 Like, especially what we've heard from, uh, Ed Babry, who I'm sure you disagree with a

01:43:14.720 lot, but, uh, I actually agree with him a lot more.

01:43:17.240 Like, I don't know if he knows this, but there are so many doctrines and things that

01:43:20.960 he talks about last time.

01:43:22.920 I've only hear Mormons talk about.

01:43:25.100 And so, like, sometimes I feel like, oh, dude, you're so close.

01:43:27.600 You're so close.

01:43:29.080 Yeah.

01:43:29.540 He said something last time that somebody was like, that's, that's straight out of Mormonism.

01:43:33.300 And I was like, that must be, this guy must be punching the air.

01:43:35.700 Yeah.

01:43:35.820 His, his idea of eternal progression really stood out to me.

01:43:38.360 There you go.

01:43:39.000 Eternal progression was the one.

01:43:40.300 There you go.

01:43:40.680 Well, I mean, the main, the main focus I'm talking about here is the, the idea of, uh,

01:43:44.420 fornication being this like spiritual act.

01:43:47.020 Yeah.

01:43:47.740 And, uh, yeah.

01:43:48.980 It's akin to marriage.

01:43:50.080 It's akin to marriage.

01:43:51.000 If you're doing it before marriage, whether, I mean, I don't know, I guess marriage is through

01:43:54.620 the state.

01:43:55.360 Or it is.

01:43:55.900 I actually don't know if I disagree with him.

01:43:58.260 I've been, I've been actually contemplating that.

01:43:59.840 I've been pondering that a lot.

01:44:01.120 Uh, and actually he makes a lot of sense.

01:44:03.440 So I, I, I think that makes sense also that there would be like, for instance, in my case

01:44:07.720 where I'm not in good standing, like there'd have to be a time where I've shown that I've

01:44:10.740 repented where, you know, I'd be washed clean of, of the sin of adultery or fornication

01:44:18.700 of that marriage.

01:44:21.020 Technically, he'd say that you are married.

01:44:22.400 Like once you engage in that act with a woman, you are now married and joined to her. 0.97

01:44:27.140 But now I guess, you know, through the state or, or, or the, at least like the legal bonding

01:44:32.660 that you've made with her, with your mouth, you haven't done that just yet.

01:44:35.820 So that's the, that's the part.

01:44:37.620 I get why a church, the church should be like against these, even though, listen, I participated

01:44:42.180 in it for a while as well.

01:44:43.840 And they told me and I told them to go fuck themselves because I'm still going to do what

01:44:46.800 I'm going to do.

01:44:47.420 But I ended up.

01:44:48.180 Well, you know where it strikes me as, um, significant when Ed Mabry,

01:44:52.380 says that there is no separation between sex and marriage.

01:44:56.020 The act of, of, uh, sex is a spiritual marriage.

01:44:59.860 Well, to back that up, we're now getting articles over these past, like two years about how, you

01:45:08.020 know, women who have, uh, sexual partners, that genetic material stays inside them for 1.00

01:45:13.100 it changes them forever.

01:45:14.660 And if this is really truly about genetics, right?

01:45:18.180 Whether it's the serpent seed or, you know, this, this genetic lineage, that genetic

01:45:22.340 lineage, obviously your DNA plays a massive role.

01:45:25.820 It's kind of almost the central component to this.

01:45:28.700 And, um, and so that would, that would make sense that where you look at that one thing

01:45:33.500 and you just go like, oh, that's gross.

01:45:34.780 And it's kind of a joke, right?

01:45:35.840 Like, oh, women are, and men too, you're retaining this genetic material from past, uh, 0.74

01:45:40.220 sexual encounters.

01:45:41.020 Well, if the spiritual was tied into the genetic, then yeah, there's your answer.

01:45:46.180 I guess that maybe he's right.

01:45:47.660 Where does the Mormon church fall on that, the, the serpent seed and the idea of, uh, the,

01:45:52.180 what we talk about on the show, the Nephilim, the, you know, tainted bloodlines? 1.00

01:45:57.480 Well, I mean, I would, I would hesitate to say that we really have a doctrine about them

01:46:04.340 at all, other than they existed.

01:46:06.960 The LDS church has this way of like, we look at things from like a positive light.

01:46:11.780 So like, if it's not going, if it's not vital to our salvation, if it's not Christ focused,

01:46:16.840 if it's not, uh, important to the plan of salvation, then why are we wasting our time

01:46:21.520 with it?

01:46:21.820 And so they kind of have this, this idea of like, well, it's not, it's not really important

01:46:25.800 because it's not going to help you get closer to God, knowing all these things.

01:46:29.800 It's not going to help you, you know, be redeemed through, through his sacrifice.

01:46:33.560 It's not going to help you get back to heavenly father.

01:46:37.160 So like, why do, why would, why do we care?

01:46:40.160 So I think that's kind of, I think we have, we've built a pretty compelling body of evidence

01:46:44.480 here that it does in some form or fashion.

01:46:46.620 When I look it up, it goes to giants and then it lists all the scriptures that are related.

01:46:51.400 So it does talk about them.

01:46:53.000 Website.

01:46:53.300 What do you have an app there?

01:46:54.560 You have like a Mormon app.

01:46:55.800 Hell yeah.

01:46:56.480 The gospel library app.

01:46:58.300 Um, it's actually really good.

01:46:59.680 It's really good.

01:47:00.660 Let me ask you this.

01:47:01.620 Cause we're, we're coming in with an hour and 40 minutes.

01:47:04.400 Um, what does one have to believe in order to be Mormon or, or to find themselves classified

01:47:10.740 to say, I mean, I know obviously adhering to a Mormon church and, and I imagine getting

01:47:16.320 baptized or something like that in a Mormon churches is a prerequisite.

01:47:19.860 But as far as the beliefs, the ideas, um, about the, the greater picture, what are, what are

01:47:25.460 some of those?

01:47:26.640 That's like an article of faith 11 thing.

01:47:29.340 Um, do you know what I'm talking about?

01:47:31.780 Yeah.

01:47:32.120 Well, we have articles of faith and then we have like the baptismal questions.

01:47:34.720 Um, let's see if I can pull them up here.

01:47:37.260 I don't want to miss any.

01:47:37.880 Um, because within Christianity, it's, it's, you know, the belief in, in the, the death 0.92

01:47:45.560 and the resurrection, um, of Jesus Christ and that he came and died for your sins.

01:47:50.100 Uh, and so that's like fundamental.

01:47:52.600 If, if you believe that, then generally speaking, it seems you can identify yourself as a Christian,

01:47:57.300 but in order to go a step further and adhere to a certain denomination, that's when things

01:48:01.520 get a little bit more logistical.

01:48:03.420 Uh, you have to have a couple of other key beliefs to fall one place or the other.

01:48:08.480 Yeah.

01:48:08.880 So they ask you questions.

01:48:10.500 They ask you, do you believe that God is our eternal father?

01:48:12.460 Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and savior and redeemer of the world?

01:48:16.500 Do you believe that Jesus, uh, that the church and gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored

01:48:20.980 through the prophet Joseph Smith?

01:48:22.440 And do you believe that the current church president is a prophet of God?

01:48:25.900 What does that mean to you?

01:48:27.200 Um, what does it mean to you to repent?

01:48:29.840 Do you feel that you have repented of your past sins?

01:48:32.040 Uh, have you committed a more serious crime?

01:48:35.060 If so, are you now on probation or parole?

01:48:37.520 Um, you have been taught the membership of Jesus Christ church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day

01:48:41.260 saints includes the living gospel standards.

01:48:43.380 Do you understand about the following standards?

01:48:45.200 Are you willing to obey them?

01:48:46.400 The law of chastity, which prohibits sexual relations outside the bonds of legal marriage

01:48:50.560 between a man and a woman, the law of tithing, the word of wisdom, keeping the Sabbath 0.98

01:48:55.200 day, holy, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to others.

01:48:59.460 Um, when you are baptized, you covenant with God that you are willing to take upon yourself

01:49:03.760 the name of Christ and keep his commandments throughout your life.

01:49:06.160 Are you ready to make this covenant and strive to be faithful to it?

01:49:10.080 Interesting.

01:49:10.780 So those are the, go ahead.

01:49:12.380 I'm sorry.

01:49:13.000 Oh, those, so like, those are the, those are the questions, uh, that they ask you.

01:49:17.500 Um, so it seems the major deviation is, is do you believe that the church was essentially

01:49:22.960 restored through Joseph Smith?

01:49:24.220 Mm-hmm.

01:49:25.300 Yeah.

01:49:25.600 And do you believe that like God still uses prophets?

01:49:29.680 Interesting, man.

01:49:30.800 I mean, what you're laying out there is, is, um, I don't want to downplay it in the sense

01:49:37.860 of, um, its implications.

01:49:39.600 It's not small, but otherwise it is a, it's a, it's almost a minor detail, not in its spiritual

01:49:45.340 implications, but in its deviation, it's kind of this one thing.

01:49:49.260 It's like this one thing.

01:49:50.380 Yeah.

01:49:51.240 Um, we also believe we have articles of faith.

01:49:54.300 There's 13 and number 11 is we claim the privilege of worshiping almighty God, according

01:49:58.340 to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege.

01:50:01.660 Let them worship how, where, or what they may.

01:50:03.440 So a lot of the like details, the whole point of this gospel is that it's an individual conversion.

01:50:08.380 So like the prophet leads the global church.

01:50:10.280 There's like 17 million members across however many countries.

01:50:13.800 And so they keep the ecclesiastical stuff together.

01:50:16.620 But as far as individual conversion, it is a personal thing.

01:50:19.940 So like in the temple, we learn essentially, like we are all Adam.

01:50:22.740 We are all leaving, you know, leaving the garden, going out into the world, learning of our own

01:50:27.440 and trying to come back to God or Joseph Smith, like going out and praying for ourselves and

01:50:32.320 then figuring out what truth we can come to.

01:50:35.600 Hmm.

01:50:37.180 Interesting.

01:50:38.080 That, so as somebody who's not super immersed in all the different denominations in the,

01:50:44.080 and the sort of the caveats or the nuances, I don't look at that as, as it's like what

01:50:50.340 we have in common that you worship and serve the father God, that you believe that Jesus

01:50:55.320 Christ came and, and, and died for our sins and gave us salvation.

01:50:59.600 I mean, that kind of thing is, I guess, I guess other denominations would, would claim

01:51:07.080 that it's, um, not blasphemous, but heretical, I guess, to deviate in such a way as to, so the main

01:51:15.920 point of contention is that Joseph Smith is where the true church lies.

01:51:20.340 Well, Jesus through just like he restored it, but it's not, we don't worship Joseph.

01:51:24.700 We don't think that.

01:51:26.740 Do you guys pray to him?

01:51:28.440 No.

01:51:29.260 Okay.

01:51:29.540 That's it.

01:51:29.880 That was a one that comes up as well, that, uh, there is, that you guys do worship Joseph,

01:51:34.720 Joseph Smith.

01:51:35.640 So that's not true.

01:51:37.520 Definitively.

01:51:38.020 No, we do not.

01:51:39.280 Um, everything we do, we do called praise to the man, which says praise to the man who

01:51:44.340 communed with Jehovah.

01:51:45.520 So people will take offense with that.

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01:52:47.780 But like, we don't worship.

01:52:49.760 Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah.

01:52:52.360 Uh, so what if we applied that to somebody else, one of the, um, one of the apostles,

01:52:59.220 perhaps?

01:53:00.000 Uh, yeah, yeah.

01:53:01.900 I wouldn't say give them honor and glory, but like be grateful for their role.

01:53:06.060 Yeah.

01:53:06.220 That becomes a definition issue, right?

01:53:08.760 What is praise?

01:53:09.880 Like, uh, so, so we get into the weeds on this sometime too, because there's a fine line

01:53:13.800 between like veneration and worship, right?

01:53:16.000 So Catholicism ends up having this little bit of a slipping point.

01:53:19.200 It seems I would identify it as a chink in the armor, right? 1.00

01:53:23.160 Where if something dark seeks to subvert your movement or your church, then they might do

01:53:28.660 so by looking where there's holes in your game.

01:53:31.920 So veneration as in respect to the saints is totally understandable.

01:53:36.440 Worship is not intended for saints.

01:53:38.600 It's not intended for angels.

01:53:39.720 It's intended for, for the Lord, our father, right?

01:53:42.820 So, um, is praise the same thing as worship?

01:53:50.040 No, no, no.

01:53:50.720 It's probably not right.

01:53:51.700 Because you could praise a child who's done well in school.

01:53:55.240 I praise you guys for your shows all the time.

01:53:57.800 Right, right, right, right.

01:53:59.500 So I don't know if that's truly the nature of, of, of the position of Joseph Smith within

01:54:07.020 the churches is praise be to him who, who, you know, communed with Jesus Christ.

01:54:10.460 Well, I mean, we wouldn't even say that it's literally just a song.

01:54:12.820 And in the song, it's like praise to the man.

01:54:14.240 He was a man.

01:54:14.820 And then the emphasis is who communed with Jehovah.

01:54:17.520 It's all about ushering back in.

01:54:20.380 That's something I always wonder is like, cause a lot of people will say, oh, you're not

01:54:23.760 Christian.

01:54:25.000 And I always want to ask, I kind of want to ask people like what makes a Christian?

01:54:30.800 Well, like what makes it like, if you ask Grok, what, you know, based on the Bible or

01:54:34.600 Mormon's Christian, they'll say yes. 0.97

01:54:35.940 And if you ask it, if Mormons are Christian, just generally speaking, they'll be like, no, 0.88

01:54:39.300 because they don't believe in the Trinity.

01:54:41.200 Um, but like, what's, it's more of like the conversion aspect of it.

01:54:45.020 I think a lot of people who follow these churches, they do it because someone told them or because

01:54:49.420 the Bible told them they don't have like a personal witness or a personal testimony of

01:54:53.820 Jesus Christ.

01:54:54.420 And so like, I feel like that's where we kind of stand apart is that we encourage everyone,

01:55:01.240 even if the prophet comes out and says, take the vaccine, which they did.

01:55:04.500 And it bothered me like, well, he said, I urge you.

01:55:08.580 Yeah.

01:55:08.980 That was a faith crisis for me too.

01:55:10.720 You would have found representatives in any denomination that did that.

01:55:13.600 Right.

01:55:14.040 Right.

01:55:14.620 But like, I'm, but in my faith, we still have like personal revelation.

01:55:18.740 I can still go to God have with my personal relationship that I've garnered with him and

01:55:23.200 ask him, is this true?

01:55:24.760 And we're, we're not told to believe everything the prophet says blindly.

01:55:29.580 We are always encouraged to ask God ourself and, and learn whether or not they're true

01:55:34.640 through our own personal spiritual experience with heavenly father.

01:55:39.140 Whereas a lot of people that would be actually considered blasphemous because if you don't

01:55:44.660 just align with like the Catholic church and everything that they say in the creeds, well,

01:55:48.700 then you're a heretic, which is what we're called all the time because we don't align,

01:55:52.180 align with them.

01:55:53.040 And so like, I always want to say, so what's more important, your personal revelation and

01:55:56.940 relationship with God or blindly following this church institution.

01:56:02.340 And I think that even though we are a big church institution, we don't blindly follow it.

01:56:07.200 I'm sure there are people that do, especially in Utah, the Utah Mormons are like a different 1.00

01:56:11.640 species sometimes.

01:56:12.600 But the failure of like, when you blindly follow it, you have nothing to stand on.

01:56:17.300 That's why Jesus wrote those letters.

01:56:20.100 Yeah.

01:56:20.840 So I guess two questions here.

01:56:24.120 Again, I want to get back to angels.

01:56:25.700 So the, at some point.

01:56:27.340 Oh, right.

01:56:27.500 Cause we never, we didn't get our answer on that.

01:56:29.040 Go ahead.

01:56:29.580 Wrap up, wrap up the angels. 0.94

01:56:30.680 Cause we're coming at, up to time here anyway.

01:56:32.760 Okay.

01:56:32.980 So that scripture, I think it was Revelations 12, seven.

01:56:36.120 It talked about, there was a war in heaven and Michael, um, Michael and his angels fought

01:56:42.980 against the dragon and the dragon we would consider to be Satan.

01:56:45.480 And then it says dragon fought and wait.

01:56:49.260 And the dragon fought and his angels.

01:56:51.340 So biblically then it sounds like they would be spirits and that the devil has what he would

01:56:56.740 call angels too.

01:56:57.540 So to me, I would identify that as the difference between angels that are still in alignment

01:57:04.020 with God, the father and angels that have fallen.

01:57:06.760 Yeah.

01:57:07.280 Yeah.

01:57:07.520 I think that that would be correct.

01:57:09.100 So what we consider angels of God could be people that were either transfigured, resurrected,

01:57:14.380 translated, or not born yet.

01:57:17.100 Interesting.

01:57:17.980 Okay.

01:57:19.240 So slight deviation.

01:57:20.640 Okay.

01:57:20.940 We think that Adam is, uh, the archangel Michael.

01:57:23.360 That was, that was revelation through Joseph Smith too.

01:57:25.620 That the archangels were the prophets of the dispensations.

01:57:29.540 So to, I mean, that sounds wild, but only if you are somebody who's been, you know, in

01:57:35.540 one denomination or the other.

01:57:37.260 So to me, I go like, okay, I mean, I don't have any information that doesn't hurt me at

01:57:41.760 all.

01:57:41.980 I don't go like, oh fuck.

01:57:43.440 Um, and, and to be honest, when it comes to the whole Trinity thing, even it sounds like,

01:57:49.400 um, you know, it's really semantics that are being argued here.

01:57:54.700 Right.

01:57:55.420 Is this one cohesive being, or is it three separate beings, or is it three slightly overlapping,

01:58:06.460 but mostly separate beings, you know, like, and that is to, to die on that hill.

01:58:11.880 Maybe there are Christians out there that would get upset with me for saying that, but

01:58:14.480 to die on that hill is like, well, I'm not sure that I'm prepared to, to die.

01:58:19.360 I literally have a Trinity tattooed on myself.

01:58:21.660 It was like this weird compulsion when I was a kid to get it tattooed on myself.

01:58:25.460 Um, and I don't, I, you know, you would think of any, that I might have some, some strength

01:58:30.260 or some stringent beliefs on it.

01:58:31.840 I, I don't, I can kind of see.

01:58:33.620 So, so even in, in that deviation, it feels like semantics, you know, that sounds like

01:58:38.200 humility, which is such a strength for finding truth.

01:58:40.260 Like you can't find truth if you think you already have it.

01:58:43.240 Right.

01:58:43.760 Right.

01:58:44.100 And I love you guys, by the way, because you guys are humble and open and you let people

01:58:49.760 cook and.

01:58:51.340 Well, yeah, I mean, I got, cause I'm fucking retarded.

01:58:53.120 I don't know anything.

01:58:53.740 I'm just trying to learn, like, you know, I, I care about this greatly and I, I, I want

01:58:59.160 to understand it.

01:58:59.920 And I recognize that that's going to be a long process.

01:59:01.880 And in order for me to come to any conclusion, I have to first see the evidence.

01:59:05.180 So yeah, I'm on a, it's a long fucking journey for me.

01:59:08.400 I'm 34 years old.

01:59:09.380 I'm still going to go through it probably till I die.

01:59:12.300 But, um, you know, like I see somebody in the, in the chat said, it's not semantics.

01:59:15.820 It's literally the nature of the one true God.

01:59:17.880 Right.

01:59:18.480 Well, it's semantics in, in the, in the sense that you're not arguing about, is there one

01:59:23.560 true God?

01:59:24.120 You're not arguing about is Jesus Christ, the way, the truth and the life, uh, and, and

01:59:28.000 the way to God, you're not arguing about those things.

01:59:30.040 You're arguing about these details.

01:59:31.680 And these details are like, you're trying to understand the nature of a being that trends, transcends

01:59:38.440 physical time and space.

01:59:40.100 And that's where the semantics argument comes in because we can't really know that.

01:59:45.520 I mean, you could, you can know if you mix it with information and faith and that's a

01:59:49.360 form of, of, of knowledge or knowing, uh, but short of experiencing it, that's the best

01:59:55.760 that you're going to do.

01:59:56.440 And so, yeah, I, I just think, um, three dimensional creatures trying to understand, I don't know,

02:00:03.380 four or five, six, seven.

02:00:04.480 If you fucking believe in quantum physicists who tell you there's 11 dimensions, maybe.

02:00:08.860 Okay, fine.

02:00:09.440 Three dimensional beings trying to understand 11 dimensional beings, like good fucking 0.98

02:00:13.160 luck.

02:00:13.620 It's like my, my major contention.

02:00:15.200 If you ask like a Latter-day Saint, you know, um, do they worship one true God?

02:00:20.140 And it'll be like, yes.

02:00:20.800 And they go, who will say God, the father, if you ask the Catholic, if they worship the 0.93

02:00:24.040 one true God, they'll be like, yes.

02:00:25.220 And they'll be like, you'll be like, who?

02:00:26.900 And they'll be like, God, the father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy spirit.

02:00:29.780 And I just feel like there's like the logical consistency is in there.

02:00:33.500 And I think that like, we have logic for a reason.

02:00:36.780 I think God is rational being, I don't think he, he like behaves nonsensically.

02:00:42.500 I don't think he like acts in absurdity.

02:00:45.100 And so when I hear that, I go, well, that seems absurd.

02:00:47.780 I don't think God works that way.

02:00:49.560 Well, that, that's the thing too.

02:00:50.480 And I know we have to bring it in for a landing, but I just want to say it's like, uh, God

02:00:53.540 is, um, a, uh, what was the expression that you used?

02:00:57.500 Uh, um, uh, not logistical, but a rational God.

02:01:00.920 Right.

02:01:01.140 And it's like, if you look at our realm and you want to talk about logistics and rational,

02:01:05.080 you know, thinking you go, well, things are made up on a molecular level, you know, atoms

02:01:09.700 and protons and electrons and neutrons.

02:01:11.960 And there's electrical synapses happening between one to the other to communicate in this

02:01:16.200 way.

02:01:16.480 And, you know, mass and density and all these different things.

02:01:19.500 That's the building blocks to this.

02:01:21.280 So, okay, tell me how the fucking fifth dimension works then.

02:01:24.900 What is it made of?

02:01:25.920 So, you know, we're trying to attribute, um, a logical understanding and a definition to

02:01:31.120 something that we don't even understand how the building blocks outside of this realm work.

02:01:34.940 But I think it can be understood.

02:01:36.520 I don't think that I think it can be outside the realm of B of being understandable.

02:01:40.060 And that's kind of where, like, I think the disagreement is, is like, well, it's like,

02:01:43.220 okay, I may not understand it now in this like fleshy three-dimensional being that I am,

02:01:47.220 but I think it is understandable.

02:01:48.740 And I think, like, we can continue to learn more and find the truth through seeking.

02:01:54.460 And I'm not just going to throw up my hands, well, it's a mystery, and then just go along

02:01:57.460 with it.

02:01:58.580 I do think, though, that there's room for like, I used the analogy the other day of

02:02:01.920 like, if we truly are in a flat stationary plane, and there's a firmament over it, and

02:02:05.780 you can understand so much, but if God has made it so that you cannot leave this firmament,

02:02:11.180 well, then you simply cannot gather the data that is outside of it.

02:02:15.500 And so if there ever comes a time, you know, in our experience where we can see what's outside

02:02:20.660 of that, well, then yeah, there is data collected, there are things to understand.

02:02:24.360 But right now, I think for our development, and for our faith and everything else, there's

02:02:29.600 a fucking wall that we can only get up to, and we can kind of maybe see a little bit 0.67

02:02:33.480 through, but it's kind of foggy.

02:02:35.260 But unlike what's beyond that wall, here, where we are, we can look at the building blocks,

02:02:40.400 and we can apply science.

02:02:41.780 I think that's why we have prophets, because the prophets are the way of breaking through

02:02:45.260 that to receive revelation, to receive new information that can't be given to us in

02:02:49.800 any other way.

02:02:51.000 So like, that's why I kind of put my belief behind the fact that there are prophets.

02:02:55.420 I like that, that can't be given to us, right?

02:02:56.620 It's like, God's like, no, you fucking, this is literally, as it passes through this veil,

02:03:00.480 you guys talked about like the veil before, that you might pass through on the way here

02:03:03.500 and forget, it distills, and this is all I can bring you in this realm.

02:03:08.860 Maybe when you're outside of it, we can talk, but for now, this is what you got.

02:03:12.620 And I'm excited to learn more when I die.

02:03:14.180 Like, that's something I'm excited about.

02:03:17.000 One more question.

02:03:18.300 Last question, not really pertaining to the church, but why do you guys have a mountain

02:03:21.560 with everyone's DNA in it?

02:03:23.000 What's going on?

02:03:23.800 What are you guys doing with that DNA, huh?

02:03:25.560 Where else are you going to keep it?

02:03:27.180 IVF, that's what's happening.

02:03:28.620 You've got to keep it in a mountain.

02:03:29.500 I hope not.

02:03:30.340 Where else are you going to keep it?

02:03:31.720 Where else are you going to keep it?

02:03:33.880 Do you guys have a mountain of DNA?

02:03:36.160 Huh?

02:03:36.880 You guys do have a mountain of DNA?

02:03:38.100 I mean, I don't know that it's the church that officially owns it, but like, genealogy,

02:03:41.620 there's a lot of people doing their DNA.

02:03:43.220 Well, and for example, my, I don't want to give all his information away, but like,

02:03:46.960 my husband didn't know who his father was.

02:03:49.140 And then he did the DNA test and then he, we were able to find his father and then he

02:03:53.100 had a lady reach out like a week later and she was like, hey, I'm your sister.

02:03:56.140 I've been looking for you for years.

02:03:57.120 And we didn't even know she existed.

02:03:58.680 So like, there are benefits to connecting people.

02:04:02.860 I would, I would say that, uh, and I'm, I'm not exactly sure because I'm looking too much

02:04:06.940 into it, but if we do have a mountain full of DNA, it's the same reason why we have,

02:04:10.160 uh, it's, it's, it's the same reason we have like vaults that have all the seeds and

02:04:15.180 vaults that have all the, you know, like other important things because, because like in

02:04:19.860 the last days, we're going to have like this great destruction and, you know, and we need

02:04:25.240 to preserve that information.

02:04:26.500 We need to preserve that DNA partially for like the purpose of baptisms for the dead 0.99

02:04:31.220 in like the millennial reign of Jesus.

02:04:34.380 We're going to keep those safe from the destruction that's coming.

02:04:37.900 And so, which I have to clarify what Heidi said about that too.

02:04:40.380 We don't pretend or think that we're other people.

02:04:43.000 We are doing proxy baptisms, which is for and in behalf of someone else.

02:04:47.420 At no point is it like, okay, you are this person.

02:04:50.740 Okay.

02:04:51.300 Okay.

02:04:51.740 Interesting.

02:04:52.340 Interesting.

02:04:53.380 She had to know that.

02:04:55.340 You could just see how it's alarming to find out that the Mormons have a mountain full 1.00

02:04:59.660 of semen.

02:05:00.120 It's crazy.

02:05:00.840 It's crazy.

02:05:01.160 I don't even understand the logistics of how.

02:05:03.620 The Jews have a tunnel full of semen. 1.00

02:05:05.760 So it's like, you know, I just find it whenever people start collecting DNA, I'm like very

02:05:11.100 suspicious.

02:05:11.800 And everybody is collecting DNA though.

02:05:14.940 So it's a bit unfair to just be like, why do you guys have your mountains?

02:05:17.520 Like, well, just because we're interested doesn't mean we're not fans of it.

02:05:21.140 Like, I want to know why you're doing it.

02:05:22.740 But if you want to have a mountain full of DNA, I go, that's kind of crazy and kind

02:05:26.300 of cool.

02:05:27.060 In Utah too, there's a lot of like, I think Salt Lake used to be, or maybe it still is

02:05:32.000 like a teaching hospital.

02:05:32.840 And there's a lot of like, there's a lot of science that LDS members are invested in,

02:05:38.200 which, you know, for better or worse.

02:05:39.420 So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:05:42.260 Okay.

02:05:42.500 Well, all right.

02:05:43.920 We were at the two hour mark.

02:05:45.720 This is a fascinating conversation.

02:05:47.720 I'm glad that we got it done.

02:05:48.980 And, and I don't know what happens, but every time I talk about Mormonism, I just seem to

02:05:52.940 like Mormonism a little bit more than the last episode.

02:05:56.220 So let's bring it in for a landing.

02:05:58.360 One more time, guys.

02:05:59.640 You crush.

02:06:00.520 Tell everybody where they can find artificial dissemination HD.

02:06:04.160 Yep.

02:06:04.520 Artificial dissemination HD on Rumble.

02:06:06.560 I also have an ADHD gaming channel as well.

02:06:09.560 Sundays, we do our Latter-day Sunday show.

02:06:11.960 We talk about Mormon shit. 1.00

02:06:13.700 And Wednesdays, I do a political show where just, I talk about all the faking gay stuff 1.00

02:06:18.780 going on.

02:06:19.660 All right.

02:06:20.300 And follow him at Anima Amoris.

02:06:22.640 I don't know what this means, but follow him there anyway.

02:06:25.480 Spirit of love.

02:06:26.640 Spirit of love.

02:06:27.720 That's gay. 1.00

02:06:28.140 You should change it.

02:06:29.060 I like, I really do like not nice guy.

02:06:31.740 He's one of my favorite people in the movement.

02:06:33.860 And turns out to be a nice guy.

02:06:35.120 Turns out, yeah, he is a nice guy.

02:06:38.280 So he's a liar as well.

02:06:40.060 This is why we like him.

02:06:41.480 All right, guys.

02:06:42.380 Well, thank you so much for your time.

02:06:44.100 Thank you for coming on as well, Megan.

02:06:45.280 Thanks for having me.

02:06:46.460 I would love to continue.

02:06:47.600 I mean, we just barely scratched the surface, so.

02:06:49.760 I know.

02:06:50.080 Well, it's a hard thing to get into unpacking an entire religion in one episode.

02:06:55.800 You got two hours.

02:06:56.800 Go.

02:06:57.440 Yeah.

02:06:58.300 Exactly.

02:06:58.800 Exactly.

02:07:00.020 So, I mean, you know, it's understandable.

02:07:02.120 But yeah, a lot of meat left on the bone.

02:07:03.300 So we'll have to have a conversation again, guys.

02:07:05.960 Top, we got anything else?

02:07:07.440 No, that's it, man.

02:07:08.120 Don't forget to obey, submit, and comply.

02:07:10.500 We'll see you guys next time.

02:07:13.160 Peace out.

02:07:13.540 We are being hypnotized by people like this.

02:07:19.660 News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers.

Nephilim Death Squad - March 10, 2025

134： Mormon Rebuttal w⧸ The Artificial Dissemination Podcast

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