188： The Meadow Project w⧸ Wesley Roth ｜ Nephilim Death Squad
Episode Stats
Length
2 hours and 15 minutes
Words per Minute
181.64255
Summary
On this episode of Nedealim Death Squad, we have a special guest, director and writer Wes Mitchell, who joins us to discuss his new film, "The Home of the Brave". We discuss the history of the home of the brave, and how it came to be what it is today.
Transcript
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00:01:27.160
We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people.
00:01:34.820
And the chasm between what we're told is going on and what is really going on is absolutely normal.
00:01:44.260
It's like we all know what's going down, but no one's saying shit what happened to the home of the brave.
00:01:51.700
I know we're talking about how they made us part of these slaves.
00:01:54.840
And everybody's just walking around, heading to clouds and won't awaken to a dead in the grave.
00:02:00.060
But unless you may, we need to be ready to raise up.
00:02:06.040
Only some are aware that the government releasing poison in their hands.
00:02:09.720
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad.
00:02:15.660
As always, oh, wait, this isn't timeline cleanse.
00:02:20.660
That is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation.
00:02:24.000
We didn't even start the show, and it's ruined.
00:02:28.620
Before we get into today's guest, a little reminder for all of the live viewers.
00:02:32.200
Sometime around the 30-minute mark, we're going to be going live exclusively to patreon.com backslash Nephilim Death Squad.
00:02:37.320
You can continue watching this live episode, engaging in the live chat, and also gaining access to our backlog of content.
00:02:44.600
And you can do it all for free if you sign up for the seven-day free trial.
00:02:47.620
And then hopefully you forget to cancel your membership, and we get to bill you and collect your money.
00:02:52.800
Anyway, guys, getting into today's guest, we have, are joined by Wes.
00:03:03.900
Wesley, for the audience who may not be familiar with you, let them know a little bit about what you do and what you're here to talk about today.
00:03:17.980
I used to make the show Cast Castle over at TimCast.
00:03:22.400
And then I think everybody here knows about the diaspora.
00:03:32.820
And so now I linked up with Tony Merkel, who is a friend of mine from before.
00:03:42.420
He did a couple of episodes of Cast Castle with me, actually.
00:03:51.800
If you've got everybody in the chat, if you've never watched Dark Holler, the series on YouTube, awesome.
00:04:05.100
And that's a lot of what we're here to talk about is this film that you guys have coming out this weekend.
00:04:12.160
But, I mean, it's an interesting sort of segue career-wise, right?
00:04:17.960
You go from doing hard political commentary or at least being around that.
00:04:22.440
Well, I was the producer on – one of the producers on Inverted World.
00:04:26.700
Like I was the – I was the producer when you guys did the show the first time.
00:04:29.800
Yeah, Shane Cashman has a great way of bridging that gap between what Tim does over at TimCast and then what, I guess, this kind of spooky realm.
00:04:39.640
It's actually why we – among many things are the reasons that we love Shane Cashman.
00:04:44.900
But we had him be a part of Bohemian Grove because he's got that kind of spooky bent to him.
00:04:49.580
And, honestly, the conversations that we had with – when you talk to Shane Cashman and you find out, like, what his childhood was like living on that military base and the men dressed up as bears.
00:05:01.860
So – but, I mean, I guess in that way then it's not such a giant segue for you.
00:05:05.940
But you're still surrounded by so much of that political commentary where I feel like certainly what Tony presents to the audience is void of that entirely.
00:05:15.720
So now you're emerged in – or immersed, rather, in the spooky.
00:05:20.080
How has that been, that transition for you, going solely to spooky stuff?
00:05:23.740
Well, honestly, like, I don't – not that hard because even before I worked for Tim, this was, like – I spent all of COVID just researching Atlantis.
00:05:38.080
Like, that's all – like, just reading everything.
00:05:40.380
Like, I read Ignatius Donnelly and all these, like, heretic writers.
00:05:47.380
I read Madame Blavatsky and Alice Bailey and all that.
00:05:51.080
Like, it just went super – like, dude, I remember one time.
00:05:53.360
When they first opened up Waffle House, I was sitting there, and I, like, had red in my eyes telling my friend about the Lucis Trust.
00:06:02.800
But even before that, like, I had – in, like, 2012, I went down the Illuminati thing.
00:06:06.440
You remember when, like, people are discovering, like, oh, like, I went down that rabbit hole, too, and had to, like, pull myself out of it because I was seeing it everywhere.
00:06:14.480
And successfully, like, retook the blue pill to an extent where I was like, okay, I need to be able to live in the world and not feel constantly afraid.
00:06:23.360
And so I guess I've always had that bent, which is weird because I'm also – I have extreme normalcy bias.
00:06:29.440
Like, I am always – I'm super skeptical about everything and lean towards, like, people are good.
00:06:37.800
But, yeah, but I wanted to get out of, like – to be honest, even at TimCast, I didn't – I was probably less politically active than I've ever been in my life when I worked there because I was around it so much where I was like, I don't care.
00:06:58.200
I find it becomes hard to engage with those ideas when you have – I mean, not only because it's hard to take it serious, but this other field of study, which I'm comfortable calling it a field of – previously, it would have been pseudoscience and ridiculed.
00:07:11.820
But I think the strangeness of life has dragged us into a place where the conversation is much more serious regarding what was previously dubbed pseudoscience.
00:07:24.380
And I don't know, for better or for worse, it's so much more entertaining than trying to engage in the political conversation.
00:07:30.360
And it's – and beyond that, like, it feels more consequential.
00:07:37.880
Like, that feels more – dude, because a lot of people are like, yeah, that's kind of fantasy stuff.
00:07:43.180
And it's like, it's way more real than politics.
00:07:45.560
Yeah, it almost makes politics feel like – like, if this is, you know, more real than – it almost makes it feel like politics is theater.
00:07:53.580
It's been an interesting thing to watch your development, your relationship with Tony.
00:08:00.380
And I feel like it's a lot better of a place for you.
00:08:03.960
You guys just wrapped up this documentary that we're here to talk about today that releases – when is it coming out?
00:08:13.180
It releases July 27th at 8 p.m. on Moment.co, Moment.co.
00:08:22.240
And it's – so I was not there to film this one.
00:08:30.560
I think – I don't think I'm breaking any news there.
00:08:49.360
Because, yeah, I'm guilty of, like, hearing about Tony's documentaries and then not watching them.
00:08:56.840
I just – I guess I do a lot of – I watch all of his shows, but not the documentaries.
00:09:03.860
Because even though it's kind of – this isn't an insulting thing at all, but it's, like, it's almost been there, done that in the sense of, like, being in the woods and looking for these cryptids.
00:09:19.720
When you watch, like – and it's nothing against these guys, but, like, Bigfoot Hunters, let's say, for example.
00:09:23.820
It's the same thing every episode, and they haven't had a fresh take on it.
00:09:28.800
I don't know if the series is still running, but you can guess at what you're going to get.
00:09:32.160
You're going to get knocking on trees, you're going to get whooping, and you're going to be like, did somebody just throw a stone or something like that?
00:09:43.540
It's the way that the content is packaged and then presented to the listener or the watcher because this stuff is incredibly fascinating.
00:09:52.460
It's just, for whatever reason, these shows have fallen into their old habits.
00:09:57.420
So Tony comes along, and he makes something about something that's been around for a while, but it's done through a fresh lens.
00:10:08.220
Like, there's so much good content, and I'm like, how much can I actually watch of Tony Merkel?
00:10:19.740
But let's check this out, and we'll see what this is about, and we'll get into this.
00:10:35.780
It ranks very high on the list of extreme high strangers.
00:10:52.240
I mean, stuff was popping off at the freaking camp.
00:10:55.300
We knew of all the stories that we had heard them tell over multiple podcasts for the last few years.
00:11:01.500
I'm not sure what I just saw, but Bob just turned into a bottle of luck.
00:11:04.900
Something grabbed my legs and was pulling me out of bed.
00:11:09.160
The only way I could describe it was, like, gone.
00:11:15.640
We are big fans of putting ourselves in environments to see how it unfolds around us.
00:11:43.940
And before I go anywhere, I want to ask, what inspired the Cube?
00:11:50.760
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On the thumbnail for the Meadow project, the Cube obviously is something that comes up constantly.
00:12:39.620
And Saturn worship, you know, the Tesseract, right?
00:12:46.220
But, I mean, there's a lot of real significance to the symbolism of the cube.
00:12:52.360
Well, I can share this because this is, Tony's talked about this several times.
00:12:58.080
While the group, so Trey Hudson is the founder of ASOG, the Anomalous Studies and Observation Group.
00:13:03.840
They are the team, they've been investigating this place since 2012 or 13, somewhere in there.
00:13:13.440
And at one point, I think it was 2017, they were doing a nighttime investigation in the Meadow.
00:13:22.340
So, and on thermal, Kristen saw a cube on thermal.
00:13:29.980
Could not see it with her eyes, but it was a cube about 25 feet tall and wide.
00:13:34.620
And so they had three other members there with thermals and put the thermals on and they all saw this cube.
00:13:44.100
And then there was another team that consisted of Trey and two others that were on this ridge behind it.
00:13:54.580
There's two ridges on either side, on either side.
00:13:58.060
And they were up there and they saw it on their thermal as well.
00:14:06.760
Now the, now I'll say we've got one thermal in the film of this cube.
00:14:13.400
The other thermals were, uh, passive, not active.
00:14:17.580
So they were like, um, visual aids, not recorders.
00:14:21.900
Um, so they were, um, uh, using them to like see in the dark.
00:14:30.240
And so they called this unit to come down to check it out and go to the spot.
00:14:36.820
And, um, we've got that footage where they're walking up, they're talking them into the spot.
00:14:41.480
And as they approach the cube, they're saying, Hey, slow down.
00:14:48.980
And then as they're starting to walk away, they're like, guys, guys, guys, it's coming back.
00:14:52.820
And like, you can see it's in, it's very ethereal.
00:14:57.240
Like it's, it's almost like if you had a glass cube and filled it with smoke, like that's sort of what it looks like.
00:15:05.700
Um, and like, and like I said, I have extreme normalcy bias.
00:15:10.340
So I look at this and say, there's an explanation for this.
00:15:13.140
And so I'm looking at the footage that they have from the next day.
00:15:18.200
Cause I'm like, this is brush or leaves or something.
00:15:24.380
And so the footage from the next day where they recreated the walking path, there's nothing, there's no brush.
00:15:30.500
There's no like anything that would resemble this shape.
00:15:34.680
And then I had to say, okay, well, I like, while I don't know what I'm looking at, at one point it does disappear.
00:15:43.760
So as they approach the cube, uh, they walk into the area where it is and their thermal, this cube, just for clarification purposes, West, this is ground level.
00:15:58.160
This isn't something ground level line or anything like that.
00:16:01.660
And it's sitting and like on the, uh, according to the testimony from Kristen, when it was at its most, um, illuminate it's it's cause it's heat.
00:16:13.240
So it's when it's, it's hottest, um, the ground under it was glowing hot.
00:16:21.040
Like there's like something had just been sitting on it, like warm, you know, kind of like if, if an animal's laying down and gets up, that's what the grass looked like.
00:16:28.360
And so they walk into the spot where this thing's sitting.
00:16:31.740
Was this, is this thing actually on the ground or is it floating?
00:16:35.360
It, it, her, her description of it is that it was like inches above the ground.
00:16:40.260
So like, like six inches above the ground, but it's 25 feet wide, 25 feet tall.
00:16:48.600
And so they walk into this space and their thermal images just disappear.
00:16:55.100
So as they're inside of the cube or what they should be inside of, they no longer exist to the outside world.
00:17:11.320
They call it the skin Walker ranch of the South.
00:17:13.540
Um, and it is a location within a forest that has the reason that they checked out in the first place is because there's a lot of, um, native American, um, legends about it.
00:17:34.000
And, uh, there was also some like Sasquatch, um, uh, legends that came from there.
00:17:40.520
So the guy at the end who says, welcome to the meadow, he's a Sasquatch researcher.
00:17:44.260
Um, and he, almost all of them are either paramedics or law enforcement or, uh, special operation, former special operations.
00:17:53.900
Trey, uh, the guy who founded it is former DIA, I believe.
00:17:58.960
Um, can I just, uh, I'd like to just offer some clarification for the audience.
00:18:03.840
So I typed in crow mocker and it auto corrected to Raven mocker, which I find to be insulting.
00:18:08.820
And it says, uh, the Raven mockers are figures in Cherokee mythology described as witches or evil spirits that prolong their lives by preying on the sick and dying.
00:18:19.960
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00:18:51.060
So where, where exactly, you're not allowed to disclose the location of this somewhere in the South, somewhere in the South.
00:19:14.120
no, no, no, no, everybody's curious, but, but it's to preserve because it is not, um, the location is, is accessible.
00:19:24.260
So, um, it's, it's hard to get to, but, but you could get to it.
00:19:38.640
So now I see, I, I don't want to keep prying, but now we're like leading to this assumption.
00:19:43.380
Well, it's like, is this part of a state park where you're talking about the Daniel Boone national, but that's like more central.
00:19:47.960
But I don't want, I don't want to say anything too much.
00:20:03.740
But if we're talking about the 33rd parallel now, I got, I got some more questions because that would run across like just North of Florida.
00:20:33.800
I was going to say, is it a conceal and carry state?
00:20:40.400
Um, however, so to end the cube story and that was the first time they have seen the cube.
00:20:57.720
Um, and they, so they went into the cube, right?
00:21:04.120
And then the cube disappears around them and they reappear in the spot where they're standing.
00:21:10.300
And this is in the film as well, is that when they went into the cube, it felt very easy to get into.
00:21:15.760
However, when the cube disappeared, they were surrounded by brambles and they had to like stomp them down to get out.
00:21:22.160
And so they were like, these were not here when we went in.
00:21:25.160
And then additionally, two of the three people who entered the cube have now passed away.
00:21:31.380
So yeah, the brambles that you're talking about, um, they were around the perimeter of the cube and then they had, they were, they were standing in them.
00:21:38.620
So where they were standing, standing in the brambles and they were like, and briars and they were like these, we did not, if they said it was flat, like grass when they walked in.
00:21:49.180
So, I mean, this is a nice or else they wouldn't be using thermal vision.
00:21:51.880
So they didn't perceive any difficulty getting in the proximity and then crossing over into what would have been, I guess we could describe it as a veil of some sort.
00:21:59.840
But when this cube does disappear and their images reappear on thermal imaging, suddenly then they're obstructed by bramble and bush.
00:22:10.120
So it's almost like inside of this cube is, uh, I mean, this seems like the, the perimeters of the cube seem like a portal and inside of it are somewhere else.
00:22:20.700
And then when it disappears, you're back into normal reality.
00:22:24.620
Now, when they've seen, when they saw the cube three different times, I think I just asked this, but I'm retarded.
00:22:35.160
Um, I don't know about the size on the other times.
00:22:37.320
I just know that they've mentioned seeing it, um, other times and I don't have it.
00:22:41.680
Like I'm as familiar with this as I am the footage that I have, right.
00:22:46.800
Um, and to be clear on what this film is, this film is sort of an observation of the work that they've already done.
00:22:57.660
So there is a book, Trey has a book called the metal project, and this is less about what Tony and them and the gang went to do.
00:23:07.340
So the, they were there to, uh, get the stories from them in location and, and not, it not feel sterile.
00:23:17.620
So, um, there were investigations taking place, but it's more, this film is more about adapting this, the stories from this book and putting the information out there.
00:23:27.120
Um, you wouldn't happen to know, Wes, if there was like on this property near these sightings of this cube, um, running water or anything like that?
00:23:48.420
It says that there, uh, or at least seem to have hinted that there was a body of running water nearby.
00:23:55.280
So we're figuring out what's charging this cube, some sort of body of, uh, I assume fresh water.
00:24:07.940
Um, and there is a, an L I don't want to like give away all of the like things that happen, obviously.
00:24:14.120
Um, obviously most of them are in the book, but there is a, an incident that does occur that involves the water itself.
00:24:23.680
I would say it's, it caused like a mass, uh, confusion in one of the investigators.
00:24:33.740
Um, at, when he crossed the water, he forgot where he was.
00:24:45.700
So he crosses the stream and he's a hundred percent sure.
00:24:49.400
And we've got the footage of that as well, where he's like, I don't know where I am.
00:24:55.260
And he's like super excited about, he thought he found a second part of the meadow and they're like, Trey, you're literally where we jumped.
00:25:04.420
Like he literally crossed the stream and crosses back in the footage.
00:25:11.360
And then he took the rest of the day off, I guess.
00:25:14.260
And it was like, I, and he said, when they told him that it was the same place, he said, it felt like everything shifted back.
00:25:25.400
Like, he was like, I, I gotta take the day off.
00:25:27.580
Like this is crazy because I'm pretty sure I know where this is down for the audience.
00:25:38.960
No, but I, I know I could, I can figure out the state that they're in at the very least.
00:25:42.860
And if they are close, this does run along somewhere near the 33rd parallel also shows up in a certain story that I've been kind of obsessed with mother horse eyes.
00:25:57.060
I'm, uh, I'm, uh, picking away at this scab here.
00:26:04.200
So, so they have this incident with the cube, but you said that two of them died.
00:26:19.200
Um, and we touch on that lightly, um, in the film.
00:26:25.840
Um, and, and the film's dedicated to both of their, um, memories.
00:26:30.060
And so, uh, as a investigator named Bob Wilson passed cancer shortly after that.
00:26:36.840
Um, and then there's another investigator named Tim who also, uh, passed away.
00:26:41.420
I, I'm not a hundred percent sure what, but I know it was not expected.
00:26:46.380
Um, but it does seem like all of them, everybody that is there investigating is having some sort of long-term chronic health issue.
00:26:58.520
And, and they now approach this place differently where the team's much larger than the amount of people who are there in the film, but they don't, they cover it in teams over time.
00:27:09.860
So like in, in, in segments of the team, right?
00:27:12.920
So these people are out here for this long and then they take time off and then the next crew comes in and they, um, stagger the amount of time they spend there.
00:27:22.280
Yeah. Okay. In order to, to minimize the amount of exposure, let's say.
00:27:27.140
I think it, uh, is that, um, and one of the things that Trey said was that they want to give the environment time to breathe as well and not wear it out.
00:27:41.280
Um, that's interesting. Well, the, I think the reason, you know, I'm just going to come out and say it for the audience who's probably putting this piece together as well as oftentimes in extreme supernatural circumstances, um, where there is a lack of tangible evidence or, or any sort of meaningful, you know, material left behind, what is left behind is traces of, of, of, you know, uh, radioactivity, let's say.
00:28:07.020
Well, that's part of it as well. I mean, this is going to get interesting.
00:28:10.880
So, so obviously then the correlation that could be drawn and, and, you know, outside of any real evidence, it's just speculation. Uh, but given that, that one of the, uh, investigators unfortunately passes from, from cancer, uh, you can start to draw that line of speculation. Was there some sort of, uh, radioactive, um, you know, reason for, for cancer?
00:28:34.860
And then it's, it, it, it asks the further question of like, well, what exactly is radioactivity? Cause it's like, uh, like extreme concentration of energy in, uh, uh, in a small area is what radioactivity seems like. And they've had, uh,
00:28:49.560
Well, it's like, you'd say it's chaotic ionization, right? Like it's, it's a destructive, destructive energy, right? Like it's, it's the way that the, uh, particles in the, in these atoms interact with the atoms around them.
00:29:04.700
And that's why it essentially what radio, like dangerous radioactivity, what it does is it tears your cells apart. It tears, it's like, like, um, like a, a wood chipper in the air, you know, it's very, uh, yeah.
00:29:19.460
Yeah. And, and like, to speak to that, this, we don't really focus too much on it in the film. So I don't feel like it's spoiling anything. One of the things that happens when these events happen, because they're doing all sorts of readings. They're, they're, uh, measuring, um, electromagnet, uh, electromagnetic field. Um, they're, um,
00:29:40.460
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00:30:06.780
They have time displacement monitor to see if time runs differently in between two locations, which does happen there where like, what, why did the, the time meters now they're one second off from each other? Like that's strange. Uh, and that's a lot of time. Like that's a lot of time designed to be synchronized and run in tandem so that you can keep time. Yes. Yeah. And they like, they're connected by a cable. Like they're there. It's a long distance cable that are connecting these
00:30:36.780
two things. So they shouldn't, they should be running off the same thing that's running time. Right. But it's like, no distortion. Yeah. Time displacement meter, I believe is what it's called. And then they're also doing, uh, they've got, um, I don't think they're Geiger counters, but they have something that reads the radiation levels.
00:30:54.380
And this is what I found. Like when I was going through the footage, cause when we first, when I first received the project, I was like, okay, I'm just going to watch all of this and try to get an idea of what happened. First of all. And when he said, yeah, when these things happen, the, um, radiation level jumps from the baseline up to, um, and he said, it's always up to 0.33 micro receivers. And I was like, well, that's interesting.
00:31:24.380
Whoa. Whoa. Illuminati confirmed. Yeah. 0.33 micros. Uh, and I wonder what, um, uh, you know, I'm sure that's not something that would really blow your hair back, but I wonder what that would be comparable to being in the presence of what does, uh, I mean, it's about baseline and that's enough.
00:31:41.320
Does Tony pick up on that? Because I was actually having a conversation with him, um, and came up, uh, what was the episode number that he had with the guy that you love? You just absolutely love him. You just believe everything he says. Nathan Reynolds.
00:31:54.380
Oh, Nathan Reynolds. I think it was episode, uh, 770. Did I, did I taste a hint of sarcasm? No, I believe I like the, I think Nathan Reynolds is legit, but Dave is just, he's not sure. He's not so sure. But, uh, I, I, yeah, I brought up, I was like, Oh, you know, episode 770 kind of interesting, you know, like, uh, this is like the number of 770.
00:32:14.380
And it was on the day one of the seventh month of, you know, and it's just like, not to be gay and numerological, but, uh, Tony, but Tony was just like, I don't care. And I was like, Oh, all right. So I guess you don't care about, but you know what though? Based.
00:32:27.460
Yeah. He's like, he goes, I don't care about that. No. So hold on. What, what didn't he care about?
00:32:34.440
The fact that it was the 770th episode released on the first day of the seventh month. Right.
00:32:40.100
Oh, gotcha. Yeah. And you know, it's just like some little numerology. Yeah.
00:32:44.000
Yeah. And Tony Merkel could give less, couldn't give less of a shit. And I appreciate that about it.
00:32:50.540
Did he care about the 33rd and also, um, did you hear from any of the people that were there? Like
00:32:55.480
actual tangible, like, did they feel anything tangibly? Cause sometimes when you're in these
00:32:59.300
places, you can, you know, get it. Yeah. So, so they did, did say it felt strange. Um, and it felt,
00:33:07.040
um, like staticky, like static electricity kind of, um, like it was hard to put into words,
00:33:14.000
um, and, uh, and, you know, I asked these questions in like those interview segments with
00:33:20.740
Tony, Joel and word, like we, I was there to shoot those. Um, and so we talked a lot about it and
00:33:28.860
we even, this isn't in the film, but we shot like a round table, um, of having them discuss things.
00:33:35.980
But I ultimately like made the decision. I was like, this doesn't, this isn't adding to it. Um,
00:33:41.800
and so we, but we just cut that segment, but there was a lot of like, and we, we kind of made a decision
00:33:48.540
to not speculate as to what it is or why it is. We, um, and part of it was because we just didn't
00:33:57.900
feel that we had enough information. So like, and that could have been something we did. Yeah.
00:34:03.960
Well, uh, we do, we speculate endlessly with, with next to zero information.
00:34:10.700
Well, the thing, the thing about it is, is that there is no, you can't really like end this,
00:34:17.580
right? Like there is no, if a, if a fallen angel came out and was like, I am such and such. And I,
00:34:24.320
this is my, yeah. Like I would've been like, okay, cool. We got it. Uh, we signed this release
00:34:29.260
Metatron like, and, uh, but we, that didn't happen. Right. So like, this is more about like
00:34:37.180
what happened to this team. And, and like, I would say one of the things I'm trying to bring to these
00:34:42.880
is because they've got several films before I came on. And one, one of the things I want to bring on
00:34:49.220
is like taking the story that the film's about, but then having some sort of like takeaway that has
00:34:57.320
nothing to do with it. Like specifically, like, like how, what about this? Can you apply to your
00:35:03.560
own research? What about this? Can you take away the boundaries of radiation poisoning?
00:35:07.860
No, just like, like in this one, it was about what kind of person does this kind of work long-term
00:35:13.900
take? Like you should not be going out into situations like this. If you're not wrapped in
00:35:19.200
the armor of the Lord. And if you're somebody who's like, so like the guy who does our visual effects,
00:35:24.120
his name's Kent. He also worked for Tim, did Tim's music videos with us. He's, he, his job before
00:35:31.100
like 10 years ago or 15 years ago is he was one of the editors and filmers for Ghost Adventures
00:35:43.580
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And he, so he has some experience in this type of space, but that space is obviously much
00:36:18.520
different. Um, and, uh, but the point is that those shows like that were like getting people
00:36:26.960
to go, that's why we have so many ghost hunting channels, right? It's because people out there
00:36:30.220
and they're like, yo ghost. Have you ever seen the way they do it in like Japan, Japan? And, um, in,
00:36:37.600
in any of the Muslim countries, they will, they like go in swearing, uh, and screaming and they,
00:36:43.880
you know, they're very aggressive. They like boot doors open and, and shout a bunch of, you know,
00:36:48.200
uh, insults at it. And I go, that's a very interesting method. Uh, I don't know that I would
00:36:54.120
be immersed in what I was convinced was real supernatural spiritual phenomenon and not
00:37:00.300
eventually come to the conclusion that I should probably align myself with what is the, the,
00:37:05.760
the more positive aspect of the supernatural phenomenon, which would be, you know, aligning
00:37:09.520
yourself with Jesus Christ. It seems that these people never draw that correlation or I don't
00:37:14.720
know if they can't, if they don't draw that correlation or they, they won't because if you're
00:37:19.560
Zach Baggins and I'm only speculating here, but you have all this apparatus built up and you,
00:37:24.540
you know, he's the guy that kind of dresses in like Ed Hardy jeans while he's ghost hunting.
00:37:28.340
Yeah. So something about Ed Hardy jeans and ghost hunting just doesn't seem like it vibes with the
00:37:34.180
Lord. So I think it's bad for his brand or he perceives it to be bad for his brand. And in that way
00:37:39.480
does not, um, I guess, uh, arm himself correctly. And it's a real dangerous place to be. That's an
00:37:46.740
interesting takeaway. Uh, a lot. Where are you in your spiritual journey? If you're in the woods,
00:37:53.960
um, on a regular basis, searching for ethereal cubes, are you aligned with the Lord or are you
00:37:59.600
not? It might be better if you are. So that's the question that you're asking. Yes. Well, no,
00:38:06.520
I would say that's not even a question I'm asking. It's more of a, uh, warning. Yeah. It's a,
00:38:16.400
it's a teachable moment of like, Hey, and, and one of my observations, personal observations is
00:38:22.980
this stuff seems to happen to people who are empty, um, more often. And so like, do you mean the,
00:38:31.680
the, the, um, interacting with the phenomenon or, or having a bad outcome? Uh, interaction. Uh,
00:38:41.040
cause my, my whole philosophy on it is because like, I've, this isn't the, I didn't go to this
00:38:46.580
place, but I have been the idiot with a, uh, a handy cam in the middle of the haunted place.
00:38:52.620
Like the, actually the first, the very first ghost adventures was filmed in my hometown. Um,
00:38:57.660
at a, yeah, the movie, the one that came out in like 2003 or four was filmed at central state,
00:39:03.520
uh, mental, uh, asylum. Um, and I used to go there all the time is it's, it's gone now.
00:39:09.540
They tore it down, but I used to go all the time. And, uh, like, like we would split up and stuff.
00:39:18.180
And, and like, I knew people that were like, this really crazy thing happened to me. And I was always
00:39:23.680
like, it's crazy. Nothing ever happens to me. Nothing. Um, and it's not that I have no paranormal
00:39:29.580
like experiences. In fact, I just had one working on the film the other night. Um, uh, it was two in
00:39:36.760
one night actually. It was very strange. And this stuff does not happen to me. Like I'm not,
00:39:40.840
like, uh, I'll, I'll get there. Um, and, but I, my working theory is that if you are rolling,
00:39:52.960
like with a gang filled with the Holy spirit, that those things don't want that smoke.
00:39:58.620
Like there's nothing to do there. There's no vessel to occupy and best case scenario,
00:40:05.020
you get casted out in the name of the Lord. Yeah. And like, it's very hard to deceive because
00:40:10.120
those people are aware of the idea of testing the spirits and, and because they're not there to
00:40:15.360
like, sure. They'll like torture and scare people. They, what they really want to do is seduce and
00:40:20.180
make you think that they are truth. Um, yeah. Or, or if they can do it on a minor level and convince
00:40:26.220
you that they are you, that's a good place to start as well. Yes. Um, and yeah, that's a big
00:40:32.980
one. And, but they, I don't think they can get away with that. Um, I, and in many cases they can,
00:40:39.380
there's a lot of people who are, you know, like, uh, in scripture, like we cast out demons in your
00:40:44.560
name, flee from me. I never knew you. And it's like, there, there is something to be said for that,
00:40:48.500
but people who really are imbued with the Holy spirit and have a relationship with Christ,
00:40:54.880
like, I don't think I'm not saying nothing will ever happen to those people. I'm not saying that
00:40:59.360
at all, but I think the chances of them being enticed to there's just no, they're there, you
00:41:05.500
know, like for them, it's like, you don't, if you're a salesman, you don't walk into a neighborhood
00:41:11.420
where you've already sold everybody on whatever your product is. You, right. That's a great analogy.
00:41:16.880
That's a great, or where, or where they're, you know, bound up in a contract with somebody else.
00:41:20.420
Like I used to be a door to door salesman for true green and I would not go into the
00:41:24.300
neighborhood that Scott's lawn care had the contract with the whole neighborhood. I'd be
00:41:28.280
like, there's no reason. Like I can't do anything. Yeah. Um, I want to ask you a question about
00:41:34.860
the nature and how it changes if you're in alignment with the Holy spirit versus if you are, um, ghost
00:41:42.660
hunting, is there still any value in going to these places? Let's say, um, under the context
00:41:49.440
of gaining ground in spiritual warfare, because there's, there's one aspect of going there for
00:41:55.240
the entertainment value. And there's another aspect of going there. Um, and, and even on
00:42:00.500
the entertainment value, also, uh, informing people who are, who are viewers and who are
00:42:04.720
listeners. But what about this idea of engaging in spiritual warfare to, to win ground? Is that
00:42:11.180
applicable in, in, you know, in your experience or, uh, in your estimation, but before we go there,
00:42:16.780
uh, we're at the 40 minute mark. So everybody who's watching on X on rumble and on YouTube,
00:42:22.460
we're cutting the stream now and we're going, uh, live exclusively to patrion.com backslash
00:42:27.100
Nephilim death squad. So if you don't have a membership over there, consider signing up for
00:42:31.660
the seven day free trial. And that way you can at least get the rest of this conversation and hang
00:42:35.880
out in the live chat. Otherwise we will see you guys later. Goodbye. So, so Wes, um, you know,
00:42:43.960
there, there's a driving force to going out to these locations. You said yourself that you used
00:42:48.820
to go to, um, what was it like the asylum? And, and I was a big fan of that when I was younger
00:42:53.780
in New Jersey, uh, we had, um, weird, New Jersey was a magazine series, a book series that would tell
00:43:00.960
you all the strange locations around New Jersey. And we would go and see these places. We'd go to,
00:43:06.420
uh, you know, the devil's tree and we'd go to all these different, there was one that I wanted to go
00:43:11.880
to called the gates of hell, which was in Clifton, New Jersey. And you had to kind of navigate. I
00:43:17.380
never went there because of this, but you had to navigate a sewer system. And depending upon when
00:43:21.620
you went there, if it was the rainy season, you'd be in some trouble, right? The water would, would
00:43:25.600
well up on you. And, uh, and you probably allegedly even had to go through a bit of a submerged area to
00:43:31.060
get to this spooky door and yada, yada, yada. But there is this allure there. And so at what point
00:43:37.820
do you think, um, that is unhealthy, but then is there a healthy version of it? Like I mentioned
00:43:45.560
before, going to these places to, uh, win ground in the name of the Lord via spiritual warfare. Does
00:43:51.600
that apply at all to what's happening? Um, I think there is a reason I think, um,
00:43:58.540
you are much more at risk of something you're not aware of. Um, like if you don't get a diagnosis
00:44:09.040
with an illness, you're much more likely to pass from it. And I think that this is also, uh,
00:44:16.280
uh, can manifest itself as an illness, right? Like to, to go back to what I was saying about,
00:44:23.280
like, uh, I don't want people to think that I was saying that if you're wrapped in the armor of the
00:44:27.640
Lord, when you go into these places, you're totally safe. I don't think that's true. I think
00:44:31.900
from Tony's own testimony, that's not true. Um, that these things, they may not give you what
00:44:38.360
you're there to look for, but they may follow you, um, and affect you, um, in, in other ways to put a
00:44:45.820
cloud over your head. Um, I think we, like you guys are familiar with the story of when Tony went to
00:44:51.940
witness to that gentleman that he worked with. And then he felt like he gave him what
00:44:57.640
ever was with him for a year. The, the huggy guy, the huggy guy, um, he just wanted a hug. I don't
00:45:03.760
know. He just wanted three hugs. I don't have any problem with three hugs. He actually, I think
00:45:10.160
that's a risk. He told me, he told me that story cause I had called him to ask him about something,
00:45:15.560
uh, similar to that. And, uh, it's, it was interesting. They seemed like there was like a
00:45:21.680
transfer with that hug, like a transfer of a weird sexual energy, which is something he doesn't
00:45:26.540
mention on his show. Cause it's like more, you know, it's family friendly, but the guy
00:45:31.020
like kept pressing his, uh, that area on him. And I'm like, that's really interesting.
00:45:37.900
Super interesting. Like why that would, why you do do it that way?
00:45:42.620
Well, yeah, not to get too into the love portal. Well, I mean, but I mean, there is a reason why
00:45:50.060
people like Crowley and his, um, I don't know, followers are so into sex magic, ritualistic sex
00:45:57.900
magic, right? There is a, a, an energy exchange, uh, a unique one that comes from anything of the
00:46:04.460
sexual variety. It's, it's also why they target children in that way. Uh, so that's unsurprising.
00:46:10.100
I mean, I maintain that to us, it's sex to them. It's something else, you know, to the, to the other
00:46:16.400
realm, it, it is an alchemical process and it's just a means of transference. Cause that's, that's
00:46:22.500
what it's transferring life energy. Yes. There, there's a, but when you, when you, when it's,
00:46:28.060
when it happens between two people that are in love, a husband and a wife, um, that love aspect
00:46:34.560
is something totally number one, incredibly powerful. Uh, but two, it can be the, the, the purest
00:46:42.500
form. I mean, I don't want to call it, um, magic, but I mean, I guess in some ways it is. And if it,
00:46:47.620
if it is this incredibly powerful energy, that's pure, and then the by-product of it, the fruits
00:46:53.580
of it are, you know, a child. Well, yeah, that's like the, the, the tip of the spear in regards to
00:46:59.680
what we can perform here. So to invert that and then do things like try to bring in the moon child
00:47:04.700
and things like that into this realm, uh, that all, that all tracks. So yeah, I mean, it's, it's,
00:47:09.340
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This powerful form of magic that we're capable of executing as, as mortal beings here.
00:47:43.800
Yeah. And it's imagine, you know, you're, we're all made in the image of God, right?
00:47:47.740
But then each of you, each of us is imbued with 50% of the ability to create another being
00:47:54.520
made in the image of God. Like that's pretty, pretty crazy. It's crazy that we take it for
00:47:59.200
granted. You know, it's wild that we've lost that when you put it that way. I mean, it's
00:48:03.160
massive, but yeah, we really, really like if you color it that way, which I think one should,
00:48:09.040
it really makes, you know, like abortion seem like that's exactly where my head was going
00:48:16.960
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, and then you look at what our society has done
00:48:21.120
and the way that we've normalized it, encouraged it and called it a right, called it liberation
00:48:25.220
when it is, I mean, it's a liberation, but shout your abortion, man.
00:48:28.280
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. There's an interesting conversation going around on Twitter right
00:48:32.660
now between, uh, it's Andrew Tate and the other guy from, uh, fresh and fit. And they're talking
00:48:38.440
about, uh, the idea of monogamy, like, you know, you gotta have multiple partners. You
00:48:42.600
have to have multiple wives. Women are just vessels to be filled with your cum. And I'm just
00:48:47.960
like, this dude is such a, I enjoy, I enjoy him. I think he's funny, but I'm like, this is so
00:48:55.900
dangerous to, uh, like just the male American, the young American male. It's like this ideology
00:49:04.000
that you're talking about. Like, yeah, sure. You're right. Like your, uh, never ending satiation
00:49:09.860
for sexual desire is real, but you're just going to like fill that with anyone that's willing. It's,
00:49:18.300
it's a crazy concept. And they're like, you're gay. You should have more, have more sex with random
00:49:23.460
woman. I'm like, okay, okay, dude. I don't think that's the, it's the mirror image of the feminist
00:49:28.420
movement, right? Free sex and, and all of that, no accountability and yada, yada, yada. Like it's the
00:49:33.320
exact thing. It's just feminism for men, which is when you put it that more people should be putting
00:49:38.240
it that way. Do it as men, do we really want men in ism? Do we want feminism for men?
00:49:44.460
You want to talk about gay? Um, so, okay. All right. But, but getting back to this, uh,
00:49:49.780
this discussion, um, I did want to ask something and then, uh, you know, if, if we can figure out
00:49:54.120
where the hell we were on the tracks, um, just for clarification purposes, when we earlier mentioned
00:50:00.540
that, that two people passed away, one of them from cancer, the other one untimely, um, these were
00:50:07.400
two individuals that were seen sort of blipping off the radar in the, uh, uh, infrared?
00:50:17.640
The thermal, the thermal. Okay. I just wanted to, cause I wasn't sure if that was just investigators
00:50:21.520
that were on site or if that was literally two of the individuals that would have disappeared
00:50:28.400
Yep. Yes. And they're the two that, unless I'm mistaken, cause this is, I'm, when you're
00:50:37.140
looking at thermal, a human being is just as white spot. So, but they kind of went, you
00:50:42.880
know, like you've got three of them and they kind of went like that. So one went deeper
00:50:47.560
in or one went more like not as far in as the other two. And they like, there's a daytime
00:50:53.740
recreation where they show where they walked and where they stood so that you can see that
00:50:58.620
they're still there. Um, and it, uh, uh, I think that kind of lends to it. So like the
00:51:06.300
two that went deeper in or the two that, you know,
00:51:10.740
What do you think, Wes? I mean, are, are you yourself interested in, in going to these
00:51:16.500
places? Not really. Not really. Not really. Um, I went to, I went to, we've got another
00:51:22.440
film coming like that. I haven't even started again, but yeah, well I went in the one that
00:51:28.660
we, we shot a film in June. Um, and we went to this location and I, I don't know what Tony
00:51:38.200
has said about it. So I'm not going to say what the film is or where it took place, but
00:51:41.460
it is a story you guys have all heard of for sure. Um, it's a legend that we went to
00:51:47.040
like look into, um, a famous one. And, uh, I, uh, what I'll say about is I expected it
00:51:58.280
to be a lot worse than it was. Um, like just the environment. And while there were definitely
00:52:04.480
elements of like creep factor, I expected to be like, there were definitely things that
00:52:11.220
happened that I was like, I'm, I don't like this because we slept in a, we slept in tents
00:52:16.480
for six days straight. And, uh, I didn't get a tent for six. I'll, I'll camp for two days.
00:52:24.060
We'll have a two day. I'll, you know, I mean, like I'll show up on day one, sleep in a tent
00:52:28.400
on day, you know, that night. And then I'll leave the next day. Yeah. Well, I did like,
00:52:32.400
I enjoyed the camping and camaraderie and brotherhood aspect of it, but it was June. So like at night,
00:52:40.760
it was very cold. And so I slept in my clothes and my coat, but then I would wake up and it would
00:52:46.800
be 80 degrees. And I'd be like, ah, get me out of here. And my tent was like, my tent was like
00:52:53.380
dark, dark Brown. So it's like pulling in all the heat. It's like, it was awful. Uh, and also I'm the
00:52:59.760
biggest person there. And, uh, giant too. I'm six, four and a half. Yeah. Yeah. What is
00:53:08.020
going on? Why do we, why do we just have a face of a baby? I know, right? Yeah. Well,
00:53:13.200
I'm a string bean though. Like I look like, I look like a normal person that somebody grabbed
00:53:17.120
the middle of and stretched. It just seems like all we do is talk to tall people.
00:53:20.520
Uh, but, uh, but I had the smallest tent. Like I was sleeping. It was one of those square
00:53:25.660
tents and I was sleeping corner to corner. Um, but, uh, at FanDuel Casino, you get even
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00:53:49.320
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00:53:52.620
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But no, like I didn't, I expected the area we were in to feel a lot more oppressive than
00:54:06.100
it did. Um, and, and I think part of it was because the people we talked to, we talked
00:54:12.500
to a lot of people that investigate there all the time and they were like, I would literally
00:54:18.220
not like, do not sleep here. Like they're like, don't do this. Uh, all of them warned
00:54:23.760
us. And even before we went and we were like, yeah, everybody we've talked to is saying like,
00:54:27.220
do not do this. Um, most, there've been a lot of people who tried to stay there and then
00:54:32.200
nobody stayed on the property overnight that we went to ever. Um, and we were like, well,
00:54:39.100
here we go. And yeah, like we were, we, yeah, it just, I think it was what I was saying before
00:54:47.340
is like that little campground was like a Patronus charm. And it was like, we aren't going over
00:54:54.360
there. Um, and, and like, that's not to say that nothing weird happened, but all the things
00:55:01.640
that weird that were happening around us were happening way over there, like way over there.
00:55:07.300
And it was like, it was trying to get, I'll say that it was like, it was trying to get one person
00:55:11.100
to go out there alone. Interesting. Interesting. That's actually a, you know, a technique that you
00:55:17.560
see in these movies. I mean, it's like somebody goes out into the woods, they're camping and then
00:55:21.680
this thing will drag them away or lure them out. It's very Wendigo stuff, right? Yes. So the reason
00:55:28.720
that I was asking is because we had, um, an offer to go out to someplace and I don't know. I mean,
00:55:35.860
it's, it's the 22nd today. Um, I mean, I guess, you know, in the realm of possibilities,
00:55:41.720
it could still happen, but it's, it's, it's out in, in Utah. Um, and it's one of the many
00:55:46.760
properties that are sort of skin Walker ranch adjacent. Is this space? No, it's not space.
00:55:52.660
It's a moon Lake moon Lake. Okay. And, uh, and so, but I did have, so, you know, when you,
00:55:59.740
when you look into it, it's done by, I forget what the name of the person is, but there's like a
00:56:03.440
treasure aspect, like treasure hunting is part of this whole thing. And then of course,
00:56:07.420
Terry Jones, Terry Jones. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, so there's all this obvious, you know,
00:56:12.520
high strangeness as well. Um, and I did have this, like, you know, I had a dream. I don't know. I
00:56:18.360
had this weird dream where, uh, I found myself in a place that I was invited to. And there was like,
00:56:24.620
it was, uh, you know, there was, uh, uh, other people were also invited to this place. I don't know.
00:56:29.700
And it was kind of like a mansion, not really a mansion. It was just any who, um, when I was
00:56:34.040
there, I, I suddenly had discovered that I stepped into the wrong place. You're telling a dream story
00:56:39.200
right now. I'm telling a dream story. Sorry. So, so, so, uh, I had, I had realized that I was in the
00:56:49.120
wrong place and in the dream, I managed, I managed to pull up some details that I had overlooked on my
00:56:57.860
phone and the details had something to do with like grays and, and, you know, their involvement.
00:57:03.480
And so I immediately, first thing I realized I had my gun on me and I was really pumped about that.
00:57:08.940
And then the second thing in the dream, I started praying the blood of Jesus over me and the people
00:57:14.900
that I had come with. Um, and it felt like almost this, not a hostage situation, but like it was late.
00:57:22.040
We were supposed to be winding down for bed. And all of a sudden, now the next thing was we got to get
00:57:25.880
the hell out of here. And so I'm like, I, you know, some dreams are just dreams, right? You just,
00:57:30.380
sometimes you just have dreams about silly stuff. Uh, and maybe this thing was on my mind,
00:57:35.040
but I'm kind of going back and forth between that. Like, is there a benefit to me going out to
00:57:42.020
moon Lake and having some potential experience there? Everybody knows about the hitchhiker effect
00:57:48.140
or anything. And I'm no stranger to, um, odd occurrences and entities and things like that.
00:57:53.780
Uh, but I don't know. I mean, what would, at this point, given where you are in your career,
00:58:00.100
I mean, you're making documentaries about these things. Is this something that you would move
00:58:04.820
towards? I'm sure you guys get a lot of offers. I'm sure Tony gets a lot of offers to come out
00:58:09.160
and see this bizarre location. Doesn't seem like he's, he's shying away from it. Um, I don't know.
00:58:16.240
Do you guys weigh that, uh, anymore, or is this just, we are in alignment with the Holy spirit and
00:58:24.540
therefore we can go and do these things? That's a great question because so the, this past one,
00:58:33.180
the one I was just talking about, if the way the, it was pitched to me to go out there,
00:58:39.420
first of all, it was not supposed to go out there. Um, and then they ended up needing me and then,
00:58:46.680
um, and also Aaron, you guys know, Aaron, um, my business partner. Uh, he also went and this is
00:58:55.360
not his realm. Like he he's, he's an interesting cat. You guys should talk to him. He's a Russian
00:59:00.340
Orthodox, um, very unique person. And he was like, this is not my world. He was like, I like working
00:59:07.160
on these projects, but he's not into the woo and stuff. He's just, he's a very cool guy. And when
00:59:13.200
I told him what the pitch to the pitch was, we're going to go to a place and confront a demon. And I
00:59:20.440
was like, no, thanks. Not interested. Um, uh, not interested. Um, and I toiled with it for weeks. Um,
00:59:34.600
because originally when I was supposed to go, we were going to go a month earlier. And so I had
00:59:40.600
one week to think about it and I had already agreed to do it, but I was really struggling
00:59:46.460
with it. Then it got moved back a month and I started to think, Oh, maybe I won't have to go
00:59:49.960
after all. And that would be awesome. Um, even though it's one of those things where it's like,
00:59:54.680
if you excise the demon part, I'm in, I'm a hundred percent in, I'm in on campaign. I'm
01:00:02.180
in on hanging out with my friends. I'm in with making a film. I'm all a hundred percent in
01:00:06.340
footage, right? Yeah. Telling a story. Yeah. Yeah. It's all fun stuff. And then it was like,
01:00:10.360
yeah, we're going to go specifically do this. I was like to cast out the demon, not
01:00:15.340
confront, I will say. Confront it. Yes. Confront it. All right. Yes. Um,
01:00:23.400
because I can't get it. I mean, so it's just in its house and you're going to go confront it.
01:00:27.020
Seems kind of like a douchebag move. It's, it's not a house. Oh, all right. Um,
01:00:35.580
write that down, write that down. It's not a house. Um, but yeah, you'll once, once,
01:00:41.040
I don't know if Tony's put it out there, if I get the okay to put it out there, I'll put it out there.
01:00:44.400
But, um, but you'll hear it from him obviously. Um, but it, it, it is, and this thing covers a lot
01:00:53.240
like this next film, like I haven't even started it editing wise yet, but it covered, we cover a lot
01:00:57.200
of ground. Um, we, we saw like the, the guy who owns the place that we were at has a lot of evidence.
01:01:05.500
Let's just say that a lot. Um, like, I think we looked at 1200 photographs, 1200 photographs of,
01:01:13.940
of, of, of orbs or of, of what are we talking about here? Not orbs and nobody's, these have
01:01:21.800
not been made public. I do not believe. So, um, stuff you won't, you'll like, really? Like
01:01:28.920
there's a lot of like, really, really? Cause like we filmed an entire like interview with
01:01:34.040
him and he had a screen or showing them and we were like, this is too much.
01:01:38.720
This is too much. Without giving away too much. Do we have any sort of, um, uh, bipedal,
01:01:45.760
anything that looks like a, a figure that people would be familiar with at the very least,
01:01:50.700
you know? Okay. All right. Yes. Um, yeah, yeah. There's some weird stuff. Um, how about
01:01:58.200
a name? Of what? I can't say the name of the thing. Cause that'll give the, no of the entity.
01:02:04.140
Yeah. Yeah. I can't give the name. Oh, the names of the place. That's interesting that
01:02:08.760
yes. The name, the, the location is the name of the, the, it's going to be the name of the
01:02:14.420
documentary and it's going to be, it's all right. You're giving away too much. I don't
01:02:18.040
want to get you fired. Yeah. No, um, Vaporeon. Sorry. I saw it coming. Don't read the chat.
01:02:25.200
These people are terrible, right? Some of them are hilarious, man. Um, but, uh, no, it's,
01:02:31.260
it's, yeah, I, I, there's a lot of these places that I definitely want to go to. There's a lot
01:02:37.480
of them I don't. Um, but, uh, it's funny you say, like, when you said, like, how do you feel
01:02:43.440
about this? Even for this, the, uh, I'm going to tell you about a dream, but while I worked
01:02:53.100
for Tim, while I worked for Tim, I lived with Aaron, actually like, uh, and, uh, another
01:03:01.960
coworker, we had like a townhouse and we lived on an air force training ground. And so twice,
01:03:13.280
two times, two times I saw the black triangle. Um, one time I was driving and I was at the
01:03:21.700
Jefferson County fairgrounds in West Virginia. And, um, and it's a long stretch of middle
01:03:29.000
of nowhere. Right. And then in my rear view mirror was three white lights. And I just pulled
01:03:35.100
over to the side of the road. And when I went to look, it went around to the front of my car.
01:03:42.320
It went, Hmm. And I had already seen it once, but I didn't realize that it was it. I thought
01:03:48.300
it was a, um, a power line with a light with lights on it. Yeah. And it was just sitting
01:03:55.340
there because that's how high it was. It wasn't that high. It was really low. And then what
01:04:00.900
I saw it in my mirror, I thought it was a C 17 because that's what the training facility
01:04:05.800
is for is they fly C 17s. And those things are really big. They're, they're transport
01:04:10.300
planes. Right. And, uh, well, I guess every plane is a transport plane, but they're like
01:04:14.900
large equipment, transport planes. Um, like they carry planes inside of them. Yeah. And,
01:04:20.000
um, and they, they, they take off like literally a football field away from my apartment. So
01:04:27.740
when they take off, it like rattles the whole, you know, house. And so when they're close,
01:04:34.480
you know, they're close, you're, they're not sneaking up on you. Like a C 17 can't sneak
01:04:38.560
up on you. This thing was dead, silent, dead silent. Um, and it moved, it was probably 40
01:04:46.780
feet above the ground and it just moved from one side of my car to the other. I immediately
01:04:50.620
called Tony and I immediately called Shane. Like, I was like, guys it's here. And I, and
01:04:56.900
like, I've never thought that those were alien. I've never thought the black triangles are
01:04:59.980
alien. I've always thought that they were like clandestine military. Yes. Um, and
01:05:07.780
that just given my location, that's what I thought. But after this, after seeing the black
01:05:15.380
triangle, the two times, and it was in really close proximity. One was in like February and
01:05:19.260
the next one was in like April. I started having really bad night terrors and I've never had
01:05:25.940
those before in my life. I've never had sleep paralysis. I've never had anything like that.
01:05:29.400
Um, and, uh, after seeing this thing. Yes. And so the one, the, the ones that I remember,
01:05:37.000
and it was not like, you know, once a month, it was like every night I was having a night
01:05:43.040
terror and it was in my room. And the two that I always had, one was, I was always being
01:05:50.980
wrapped up by a snake. Huh? Like I was being coiled, like, uh, constricted by a snake and
01:05:58.300
that I would wake up with no breath. And I like, I attributed that to you. Cause I have
01:06:01.880
sleep apnea, like pretty bad. I got CPAP machine, all of that. And, uh, I attributed to me not
01:06:09.040
being able to breathe and it's constricting me. And so I was like, uh, that's a weird way
01:06:12.640
to manifest that. Then it evolved into the snake would have me and then I would, it would disappear
01:06:18.600
and I would look out my window. So I had like my bed and my window is right to the like foot,
01:06:24.580
the right side foot of my bed. And I would look out there and there'd be three grays in the window
01:06:28.940
looking at me. And every time they would start to put their hand through the glass, like it wasn't
01:06:35.620
there. And I would wake up screaming the Lord's name, like every time. And I would actually say,
01:06:42.780
cause I lived with my fiance at the time and she would, you know, eat it like, cause I would sleep
01:06:49.300
during the day sometimes. And she would run down the stairs and be like, well, you were screaming
01:06:54.720
the name of Jesus. I'm like, interesting. And she was like, so I thought I'd come check on you.
01:06:58.900
And, uh, even at night she would like wake me up from screaming that and be like, it's okay.
01:07:06.600
It's okay. And I would scream snake. I would scream that. Um, and then one time I did have a dream
01:07:14.160
that I was inter in brain, like mind speak with a Sasquatch and really, yeah. And is this around
01:07:22.860
the same timeframe? Yeah. All this happened in the same exact timeframe, like within one month. Um,
01:07:30.080
like every night for a month. Yeah. And then we moved. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no,
01:07:35.000
no, no. I don't know. What are you talking to the Sasquatch about? I don't remember. I don't
01:07:40.100
remember that. She, but she said I was in my, this is the funny part. Cause to her, this is funny to
01:07:44.340
be, it's terrifying is that she said, I woke her up going, Ooh, I was like, that's, that's weird.
01:07:53.000
That's weird. I was whooping in my sleep. Yeah. And, um, and like jibber-jabbing like
01:08:06.480
But like, I don't like until like later, you know, like I was like, this is just really
01:08:13.660
weird dreams I'm having. Um, and then I, but when I left that, that house and we moved
01:08:19.820
to a completely different area, it all stopped. When Tim moved his compound or something, you
01:08:27.640
moved as well. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Huh. So the, it started off when you saw this, uh, triangular
01:08:36.200
aircraft. Like you, you, you would say it's a one person aircraft that kind of floated
01:08:40.880
by you. Uh, it was the size of a bus, like, like three buses in a triangle.
01:08:46.760
Did this strike you as like military craft or something outside of it? Okay. So yeah.
01:08:51.320
Yeah. And I lived a hundred yards from the military aircraft training facility. Like I,
01:08:56.240
like they had a breakfast cafe there that I went and ate at the weekends. You could watch
01:09:00.100
the planes. A common, um, right. Black triangle military craft. I forget what it is, but it's
01:09:07.780
now been revealed. Yeah. The TR3B. Um, uh, well there's the B2 spirit. Um, and then there's
01:09:15.540
something else. Uh, the B2 spirit has sort of a jagged back end to it. Um, but there's
01:09:21.780
another one. I forget what it is. Black TR3B, right? Oh yeah. TR3A black Manta. I'm sure TR3B
01:09:28.320
is, is a very similar version. Um, do you remember? So this is what made it stand out
01:09:33.500
to me when I saw it and why I contacted Tony. This is a banger shirt. Caution UAP pilot in
01:09:39.720
training. I got another question before you go on though. Where do you put this? Um, where
01:09:46.520
do you put that kind of phenomenon? Because now you're pretty sure it's coming from a military
01:09:50.300
base, which is human, but you're having supernatural experiences because of it. You think it's the
01:09:56.160
technology that I don't know? I don't know. Like, I don't know what to attribute it to,
01:10:01.480
but the irony of it that it was there is so, um, you, you top, you've been to the castle,
01:10:09.500
the old one, the first one. Yeah. The castle, the house, the mansion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So did,
01:10:15.620
do you remember, did you come in on a really long bridge? There's a really long bridge that leads
01:10:23.300
to it. So like, um, and that bridge is where, I don't know if you remember, there's an episode
01:10:32.260
of the confessionals where a guy called in to say him and his dad saw the triangle on a bridge
01:10:38.360
in a certain location. His name, I'm not going to say his name because people will go find the
01:10:43.120
episode and you'll say where it is. And I go, but that's the same location.
01:10:47.420
Ooh. Do you remember? I didn't realize that. We were talking to Nathaniel Gillis and, and he
01:10:53.620
is, he describes it as the phenomenon, right? Um, and that the phenomenon takes all these different,
01:10:59.360
uh, uh, sort of visages. And, um, so there's clearly a shape-shifting aspect. We talked to
01:11:06.820
Jules of the Grey Pilled podcast and, and we, we talked quite a bit about tulpas or thought forms,
01:11:12.380
which in some ways are kind of sounds reductive in the, it reduces the experience to something
01:11:18.980
that's generated by your own mind. I don't think that's the case at all. In fact, it sounds much
01:11:23.520
more like the more that you can focus on a thing, the more you can flesh that idea out,
01:11:30.360
the more that you can then create a sort of dummy for these things to inhabit, which might explain sort
01:11:36.060
of like the Slenderman phenomenon, right? Where it enters, um, internet lore in a big way,
01:11:41.520
creepy pastas. It becomes so popularized that all of the focus on it gives a temporary vessel,
01:11:49.580
let's say for something to manifest in. Um, I'm wondering if we have, and this is totally
01:11:56.560
schizo speculation, integrated our technology so intimately with the supernatural realm,
01:12:03.520
because it seems that a lot of our technology is, is inspired, you know, by supernatural entities,
01:12:10.100
you know, the muses and things like that. But, uh, the example I like to give is, uh, Carlos Santana
01:12:16.360
channeling Metatron, which he gives up that juice in a, in a time magazine interview, I believe.
01:12:22.100
So, so we have a long history of people channeling entities to create things, whether it's art or even
01:12:29.160
technology or, or, or things of that nature. So what if the, the integration between certain levels of
01:12:36.020
military technology and the supernatural realm have, has become so seamless that focusing on
01:12:43.060
that technology and thinking about it is looking into the phenomenon and the phenomenon then begins
01:12:49.600
to look back at you because a lot of that, like staring into the abyss until the abyss stares back
01:12:53.380
at you. It is hyper fixation on the supernatural commonly can lead to the supernatural manifesting
01:13:02.500
in some way, shape or form poltergeist activity, you name it, sleep paralysis, yada, yada, yada.
01:13:07.460
Um, and it almost doesn't seem to make sense because what you're looking at is interpreted as a nuts and
01:13:12.660
bolts aircraft. But what if the way that that nuts and bolts aircraft came to be in this physical realm
01:13:18.260
was first by some sort of supernatural influence and that the, there's not really a separation there
01:13:24.920
between what you saw. And I'm sure after you saw that, that was something that, you know,
01:13:30.020
you were pretty enamored by for, for quite some time. Right. Um, so now you're focusing on
01:13:37.060
the phenomenon as, as Nathaniel Gillis would put it. And the, by the way, what's that?
01:13:43.300
I took a video as well. I can send you. Oh, please. Um, it's far away, but if once I realized
01:13:50.340
what it was, got it, I'll send you that. But I agree with you. I believe that there's, yeah,
01:13:54.500
like if you're back engineering spiritual technology, it's going to have spiritual implications.
01:13:57.940
Right, right, right, right. So I think that that's probably what's happening there. Um,
01:14:03.460
and that's why the same thing happens where you, you know, you have this a-holes, uh, CE5 app and
01:14:09.140
everybody's calling in, you know, these orbs or these, these craft into, and then what do they get
01:14:13.780
after that? They get all kinds of, uh, poltergeist activity in their homes and this overlap between
01:14:19.220
what was just UAPs. And now we've got a segment in the Meadow project just for what you're saying.
01:14:24.820
Interesting, interesting, interesting. Uh, so, so what do you make of that? Do you think that there's,
01:14:29.460
there's any validity to that? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I, and like, I don't
01:14:36.420
part, I know I agree with you because I don't think on, I try not to think on those dreams
01:14:43.220
anymore. Um, instinctually. Yes. Cause when I, cause I, I was at the time, like I was thinking
01:14:50.820
a lot about that. I was thinking a lot about what I saw. I was thinking a lot about what it
01:14:54.580
meant. I was thinking a lot about what the dreams made me feel. And it felt like they kept getting
01:14:58.020
worse and worse and worse. Um, and we had, so like, what I can say is when, when we moved,
01:15:10.180
the dreams stopped, but waking things started happening there. Um, and that's when I kind of
01:15:20.580
took a step back and, um, was like, I'm going to stop giving energy to this because I think that
01:15:26.900
whatever is making this happen to us, um, is because of something I'm doing.
01:15:36.020
Um, that's interesting. And so we had, um, and like Tony, Tony, Tony and Shane,
01:15:44.900
if you guys talk to them, we'll verify this. Like we had talked to them a lot about like,
01:15:49.860
what do we, what do we do? Um, uh, and there were, there was strange stuff that like,
01:15:56.340
I was not having the dreams anymore, but where there were strange things happening in our house.
01:15:59.460
And then suddenly they all stopped and it never happened again. And I don't know exactly what
01:16:04.020
changed, but I felt like I stopped giving my attention to things that I thought would do that.
01:16:12.900
So I think you're, it's a, and that's kind of the observation we make in this film, which, uh,
01:16:19.540
to bring it back is like, these things are trying to establish a conversation. And if you take part
01:16:25.700
in the conversation, it's going to go places. So one of these, uh, one of these images that's
01:16:31.620
flashing over my shoulder, it's called, uh, top lops is dog, man. And, uh, it's a joke that we say,
01:16:38.020
uh, where I go and I put my birds away at night and it's a pretty far walk to, um, their,
01:16:44.180
their, their coop back there. And when it's dark, I turn around and I walk back and I have this
01:16:51.140
feeling on my neck that is like, something is there, but I never look, I don't stop.
01:16:58.980
I don't turn around. I don't run. I walk back, I shoulders back and I walk back normally.
01:17:05.060
And, uh, the idea is top lops is dog, man. It does not exist. If you do not, uh, lay eyes upon it.
01:17:11.780
If I don't turn around and feed that thing, whatever that is. Superposition.
01:17:15.780
Yes, exactly. He exists. Uh, but then he doesn't exist. He's always in a state of, uh,
01:17:20.660
standing and I know exactly where he is. He's on the fence. This motherfucker's on the fence,
01:17:25.540
right behind, uh, going into the wild area. And he's like, you know, eight feet tall. And he's just
01:17:32.100
and he's waiting. Cause if I turn around, he's like, I will disembowel you. But I never turn around
01:17:36.100
cause I was like, there's no reason you don't exist. It's sort of like, it's sort of like a mobster
01:17:40.260
where if you don't see the crime, they don't have to kill you. When I was younger, I used to
01:17:46.740
have this, my, one of my best friends was like, why do you think of Bigfoot like this? And I was
01:17:51.220
like, well, we were sitting on a, on a corner one day and we were, it was nighttime and we're
01:17:56.260
talking about Bigfoot. We were real little, like maybe 10 or 11. And I said, um, yeah, imagine Bigfoot,
01:18:03.380
like look all the way down the street under the street lamp and imagine seeing the silhouette
01:18:08.100
of a thing that is, you know, 10 feet tall, bright red eyes. And it's, you know, breathing heavy and
01:18:13.300
all that. And, um, and he's like, why do you, why would you ever think of Bigfoot like that?
01:18:18.740
And I was like, why wouldn't it? It's, it's a bipedal, you know, at the, at the least an animal,
01:18:25.060
a bipedal animal that's, that's 10 feet tall. And I said, imagine it, you know,
01:18:29.620
letting out this blood curdling scream or whatever. And, um, I just never was able to
01:18:34.020
get behind the idea of Bigfoot as, as being like, uh, anything other than absolutely terrifying.
01:18:41.460
I mean, I'd been around, you ever go to the zoo and be around a bison. Have you ever been around
01:18:47.620
a bison? It's like a breathing car. It's kind of horrifying when you're next to it because it's
01:18:52.900
like something about it's, it's life. It's breathing just resonates to your core. Yeah.
01:18:58.660
Yeah. A horse will do the same thing. If you're, you're like, what the shit is this? So
01:19:02.100
you've been a cow. Yeah. You're like, I don't like that. You're that much bigger than it's really,
01:19:08.100
really, really, uh, terrifying. So, uh, all right. There's a lot of places that I want to go with this
01:19:14.020
conversation, but we have to get to what in the hell, because earlier you alluded to a raven
01:19:19.060
mocker or a crow mocker, um, and how that applies to this entire situation. Know that that's where I want to
01:19:26.420
go next west. Yeah. I can't not ask you given the nature of the conversation focus begets a two-way
01:19:34.820
sort of focus. Um, what are you doing? Well, also one more, one more thing. What, as you said,
01:19:42.420
in your waking life, things start to happen. I like, I got to know what things, what is the waking
01:19:48.420
thing? So what are the teams? So we moved into this house, um, in like outside Harper's Ferry.
01:19:55.060
And, uh, it was my fiance, uh, former fiance and I, and we, um, started like the first night we were
01:20:02.580
there. Um, we started having weird things happen. And like, at first we were like, this place is old
01:20:12.180
and like falling apart. Right. We were like, we were like trying to figure out like, is there
01:20:19.940
something? And like, are there raccoons in, in the crawl space? Are there raccoons in the,
01:20:25.620
not attic, but it's like where the, in the, in the roof, you know? And we started doing Bible study.
01:20:33.780
And, uh, so we were sitting in the living room and the, the, how the house was set up was sort of
01:20:41.940
like the living room was one side of the house. And then there were two bedrooms on the other side
01:20:45.700
of the house split down the middle. Right. And we're in the living room and the door was open to our
01:20:51.780
bedroom. And my dog, Charlie was in there laying in the bed, just being a dog. And we were reading,
01:20:59.540
um, Genesis. We were starting with Genesis. And at one point I paused and asked her a question.
01:21:08.820
I was like, what do you think about this passage? And, uh, we both heard my voice come out of the
01:21:16.340
bedroom. Oh, damn it, dude. Is that upset my dog? Well, that's the thing is we both heard it. We
01:21:24.180
looked at each other and no, I mean, it upset the dog that you have with you right now. I can hear
01:21:27.860
you started whining as soon as you said that. Yeah. Um, yeah, he's in a crate. So he might have
01:21:33.540
to come out for a minute and sit on my lap if that's okay. Um, whatever you, whatever you gotta
01:21:37.140
do, man. Um, but, but yeah, we, so we went in there and Charlie, my older dog was sitting there
01:21:44.340
looking up at the bed and we were like, all right, looking up at the bed or looking up at the ceiling
01:21:50.820
at the bed. Like, as if we say, I have no idea. I have no idea. It was, it was like,
01:21:56.420
it was talking to her. Right. It was like, I was talking to her. It was like, I was saying like,
01:21:59.780
do you want to go out? I'm going to grab him one second. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.
01:22:03.140
You know why that's, uh, when I was living in, uh, this other house, um, we moved to when I was like
01:22:10.500
15 years old and I had an American bulldog, which is like big bulldog with abs and such. And, um,
01:22:20.020
he, one night I was just mentioning my dog. This is Heiser. Hey, Michael. That's right. I saw the
01:22:27.700
picture. Um, you let her in, you let the fat cow cat keep screaming to come in. Um, so, so, uh, he's,
01:22:38.580
my dog is, is sat in the, um, in the hallway outside of my room and he just keeps like staring
01:22:47.140
at the, the, the drop down for the ladder that leads up into the attic and he'll sit there and
01:22:52.260
he'll stare at it. And then all of a sudden he'll get up and his hackles will raise and he'll start
01:22:56.900
like growling and barking at it. And then he'll sit down and get real docile again. And then he would
01:23:01.540
just do that rinse and repeat. And I'm laying on my bed and I'm aware that this is happening and it's
01:23:06.980
upsetting me. And above my bed, directly above my face is a vent to my attic. And I'm just staring
01:23:12.260
at that thing, wondering like what in the hell. And in that house, after I moved out, my, my mother
01:23:16.340
would tell me that, um, she would hear the feet of like something tiny, but bipedal running through,
01:23:23.540
it sounded like a lot of them running through the house, jiggling door handles, opening doors.
01:23:27.700
Uh, one case in particular, um, my mother is in the room and my, my stepdad is in the bathroom.
01:23:34.900
He's brushing his teeth and they hear pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And then something jiggles
01:23:39.780
the handle and opens the door. And the response that they had was it's like, like there was an
01:23:46.260
intruder. So my mom's shot up in the bed and looked over to the door. And my stepdad came running out
01:23:52.500
with toothpaste on his mouth. And, and they're both looking like for an intruder because it wasn't a,
01:23:58.260
did you hear that moment? It was a, somebody's in the house and they just opened the door moment.
01:24:02.340
And, uh, the dogs by this time, the, the, uh, American bulldog had passed. So there's just,
01:24:08.020
she has Frenchies, French bulldogs. And, um, and they're all stood up on the bed too,
01:24:12.100
you know, in this mode where they're getting ready to bark and they're growling at whatever,
01:24:16.500
just open this door and there's nothing there. And I always felt really unsettled in that house.
01:24:21.140
We had a, an Elmo, a tickle me Elmo in that house that my mom was, she would get.
01:24:27.060
Huge mistake, huge mistake. So she would get the dogs, all kinds of like stupid
01:24:32.260
toys that, you know, and tickle me Elmo. By the time we had gotten ready to, to trash him,
01:24:38.980
he had the, the, you know, the fur ripped off his face. So it's just tickle me Elmo's,
01:24:43.140
uh, animatronic skeleton is exposed. And, and, uh, and for whatever reason, no matter what you did,
01:24:49.380
if you took the batteries out of him, uh, I threw him down the stairs into the basement.
01:24:53.460
I took the batteries out. Cause I'm trying to watch a movie and he, and he's,
01:24:56.820
his voice is all distorted cause the dog screwed him up and he's going, Oh, that tickles. And he
01:25:02.900
just, but the batteries aren't even in them. And until the point where we had in the backyard.
01:25:10.180
Um, so weird house, weird house, but yet animals have a way of, of, of knowing, uh,
01:25:15.780
and it sounds like you're, you had a little doppelganger, uh, situation going on there,
01:25:22.260
It was strange. Uh, and, and there were a couple of like other things that happened
01:25:26.260
and then it just started to peter off. Um, and yeah, and then I, I guess I took my attention
01:25:34.740
off of it and it just stopped happening. It just, I don't know. I mean, there was a lot
01:25:40.340
more scripture reading now, so maybe that had something to do with it, but, um, but yeah,
01:25:46.340
no, I don't know. I don't know. Um, I don't know what to make of that because I agree. Like,
01:25:52.340
it's hard to like, think of it in a, like, and explain it. Cause it, these things happen to you
01:25:57.460
while your life's happening, right? Like they happen and, and you're, you come home from work
01:26:03.460
and it's like, oh, this, I hear me in there, you know, like, and what do you do with that? And
01:26:10.180
like, I, I haven't really reflected on it for that reason. You know, like I've talked about it a couple
01:26:14.260
of times. I talked about it on, on inverted world when I was on there. Uh, and, um, uh, back like
01:26:21.700
last year. And I don't know, maybe go find that if you're watching this and want to know more,
01:26:27.700
because I was a lot closer to it at the time. It was like happening concurrently when I was on there.
01:26:32.580
Um, but yeah, I just stopped paying attention to it. And I, I, like I said, I don't have a history
01:26:38.820
of these things happening. I don't have a, uh, like ghost story for every year of my life or anything,
01:26:44.740
but it's weird times in my life where this stuff that I can't explain seems to happen. Like I alluded
01:26:52.900
to earlier, like something happened last week when I was working on the film and like, I put out a work
01:26:59.220
cut of it and just minutes were missing from it. I was like, that's weird. That doesn't make sense.
01:27:05.620
And then I started thinking about it. I was like, okay, that same night was, uh, a night that I did
01:27:12.260
have the dogs staring at the ceiling, like you were saying. And they, but they like looked in both in
01:27:17.060
tandem with, ah, that's not good. Well, I mean, at the very least you got raccoons dog.
01:27:22.740
Well, well maybe, but not possible where that happened. And then later the same night I was
01:27:30.020
sitting, it's okay, buddy. Sorry. Um, I was sitting here and right in right here, right here,
01:27:38.340
I had a grocery bag that had some just odds and ends in it. And it was sitting and like,
01:27:45.380
have you ever put a bowl inside of a paper bag? And it goes like that, you know, like you're going to go
01:27:51.060
to a cookout or something and you put like your pitch in inside the paper bag and it you're like,
01:27:56.340
Nope, this doesn't fit in this bag. Yeah. Well, I'm sitting there and this had like,
01:28:01.620
it didn't have a bowl in it. It didn't have, it had like some papers in it, like a couple of papers.
01:28:06.260
I had taken most everything out. So I had like, there was a receipt in the bottom and there was
01:28:09.460
like a letter that was unfolded in there, some stuff I was going to throw out. Right. And it's sitting
01:28:14.500
there mostly empty and out of my peripheral, I'm sitting in my chair over there. The thing goes,
01:28:19.540
whoop and spreads open like that. And Heiser sitting on the bed and he looks at it and perks
01:28:27.380
up. And I just out of the corner of my eye, look at it and I didn't want to turn my head,
01:28:32.180
but I looked out. And as soon as I looked at it, it held for like a second and a half and then went.
01:28:38.660
That's strange. And I was like, that's weird. And then it was later that night that my,
01:28:45.140
something happened to my unit, my, my computer, like the editing bay. I was like, this doesn't
01:28:49.700
make sense. Like what happened in the film isn't possible, isn't possible. So it was moments of the
01:28:56.580
film were missing that I couldn't have. I couldn't have gotten rid of them. Cause I'm sure you guys are
01:29:04.500
familiar with premiere. Like when you lock and nest a section and you have the nests within another
01:29:11.940
sequence, you cannot edit them without opening and unlocking that sequence. But it was just
01:29:17.380
moments of those sequences were just gone. I had to re-edit them and add them back in.
01:29:21.940
Interesting. Anything significant in those sequences?
01:29:24.740
Kind of. Not, not, not, not, not what you would think. But they were, they were key moments,
01:29:38.180
but they weren't like evidence or something like that. They were just key moments of the narrative.
01:29:44.340
And they were parts that were laborious. So there were, there were parts that had lots of effect work
01:29:51.620
because we have a lot of visual effects in this and those moments were like chopped down.
01:29:57.220
What's interesting about that is, is it doesn't have to be like a key moment, um, in the sense of
01:30:02.660
like some big reveal that might, you know, gain you insight. A lot of, I mean, you, you only need to
01:30:09.300
look at like the Skinwalker Ranch story and whatever poltergeist activity that they were experiencing
01:30:15.300
there. And poltergeist activity is, is kind of like a general term just for, you know, uh, uh,
01:30:21.060
seemingly mysterious events happening that are unexplainable.
01:30:26.420
They were having just inconveniences take place. Like some of their equipment
01:30:33.860
Yeah. Like, and it was like for it to get all the way up in the tree. And it's like,
01:30:38.100
it didn't even make any sense. Oftentimes people refer to these things as like trickster spirits and
01:30:43.300
shit like that. And people who are much more like new age woo woo or into like DMT.
01:30:47.860
We'll talk about like the, the, the elves, the machine elves and how they have like this
01:30:52.420
gesture nature. There does seem to be, honestly, I was actually, somebody said something and I was
01:30:59.140
like, Oh my God, I can't ignore that. Which is like, I am a bit of a troll on, uh, on Twitter.
01:31:06.660
And, but even that word, like the spirit of what you're doing, uh, like trolling,
01:31:13.300
right? What one Norwegian belief system calls a troll is through another lens, um, some sort
01:31:21.380
of a demonic spirit. And I'm like an elemental. Yeah. Damn it, dude. Yeah. I don't like that.
01:31:27.780
Um, yeah. Or trickster or any of those, it's all joker, all that like, but at the same time,
01:31:34.420
like, I feel like being afraid of those terms gives them power to, you know, like,
01:31:39.300
it's not that I'm afraid of it, but I'm like, Oh, that's interesting because I'm even,
01:31:43.940
I'll even call myself a troll. And it's like, when you're doing that, what are you, what are you
01:31:47.940
actually saying? So, um, that sort of inexplainable inconvenience is, is something that is, uh,
01:31:58.020
par for the course that's, that's on brand. You see it in a lot of things, especially like
01:32:02.100
the poltergeist activity, like, you know, the poltergeist activity, for example, what,
01:32:06.980
what evil is it that opens up your drawers and cabinets? Is it like this big, you know,
01:32:15.620
has it stood in the way? Is it, is it, it'll leave you sitting there scratching your head as
01:32:19.620
to the mystery of it all. Why is this happened? Why go out of your way to open up all my cabinets?
01:32:25.540
All you've done here is, is confuse me and made, you know, inconvenience my life slightly,
01:32:31.140
not something that can't be overcome, but it feels like what you experienced was the digital
01:32:35.540
version of opening up all your cabinets. Yeah. Which is funny because like the idea is like,
01:32:41.380
they're opening the doors in your house to confuse you. So they open the doors
01:32:45.380
in your soul. Like, right. Put you at a state of like, or are they just like,
01:32:50.180
this is gonna, again, this is really good. Well, I want you to be unsettled because an
01:32:54.180
unsettled person is an open vessel. Like, uh, and, and you know, like they want to make you
01:33:01.540
question yourself. They want to make you not sure they want to make you, um, um, you know,
01:33:07.940
you weaken, uh, the prey before you take it down. Um,
01:33:13.780
it's something that I have to think about and I know we're not going to get any answers here, but it,
01:33:18.260
but you know, just on this topic of like looking into things and, and what does it mean that it
01:33:26.020
starts to look back and interact back? Is this your cue to stop or, you know, if you look at the ripple
01:33:34.020
effect of looking into these things, for example, how many people do these documentaries reach?
01:33:40.020
How many people do these episodes reach? And how many people does, does that then turn over
01:33:46.660
to, to Christ? Because that's what we do constantly is we'll go look at this really strange thing.
01:33:51.700
Here's our take on it. And here's ultimately what's important is developing a relationship with God and,
01:33:58.500
you know, repenting and, and, and, you know, Jesus Christ is the way, the narrow path. And so
01:34:06.580
are you meant to, and this is just me musing, but it's like, are you meant to, to stop looking at
01:34:11.860
these things? Uh, are you, and I'm not saying look into them to the point where now you're some sort of
01:34:17.140
like numerologist or some crap and you're applying this in your everyday life, trying to rig the system
01:34:22.100
and, you know, bend it to your will. That's clearly not what I'm saying, but it's like
01:34:26.100
you look into the phenomenon as, uh, Nathaniel Gillis puts it. And then, and the phenomenon
01:34:33.300
looks back, takes a form of whatever Tulpa or something like that. Um, it has its old tricks.
01:34:39.380
It has some, some tricks that are adapted to you. And is that what it wants is for you to stop looking
01:34:47.060
at it? Yeah. The, the idea of fear, not right. We talk about that a lot, but then when I see what
01:34:53.860
Merkel does with these documentaries, I instantly think not me, not going to do that. Cause it's not
01:35:01.860
going to catch me in the woods. It just feels like, like at what, at what point is a provocation
01:35:07.300
and at what point is faith, you know what I'm saying? And then also, but if you're called to do
01:35:13.060
it and it's been loud and clear in your head to do this thing, then I understand that, which is
01:35:18.420
something that like, you know, me and David were talking about a couple of weeks ago. It's like,
01:35:22.100
all right, are you called, are you called to do this? Because it seems like a, a dangerous thing.
01:35:27.060
If, uh, my assumptions are correct about some of the consequences that I've received for even being
01:35:33.780
next to this person, should we, you know what I mean? Yeah. Should you then go and tempt this?
01:35:38.820
These are questions that, that I can't answer. I don't think, I don't think anyone could really
01:35:42.740
answer. It's a personal thing. Um, I know that's what it gets though. I know that's,
01:35:48.260
you want to talk about the fruit that a thing bears when the phenomenon starts looking back at you.
01:35:53.540
I know, generally speaking, you know, most people go, I got, I just want to like, uh, like, you know,
01:36:00.420
when I had my whole experience and I didn't tell my wife and I, because I didn't want to talk about it
01:36:07.140
because I didn't think that I distinctly felt like talking about it and engaging in anything
01:36:14.420
surrounding it was going to make it worse, right? Similar to the instinct that you had, Wes, I felt
01:36:21.620
just instinctively the same way. And is that instinct or does this thing want you to feel that
01:36:27.060
way where it wants to scare you out of, and then yeah, to top's point, right? Fear not the,
01:36:33.460
the Bible tells you constantly to not fear, to not give into fear, to not be afraid.
01:36:38.660
So something happens to you. And the more you think about it, the worse the phenomenon gets
01:36:43.860
until you start to draw the correlation where you're like, not going to look into that anymore.
01:36:47.060
Not going to think about that. Not going to talk about it, which I can certainly understand.
01:36:51.060
Cause I did not want to talk about it with my wife or any, anybody for that matter. Um,
01:36:56.180
and is that what it wanted? I don't know. I mean,
01:36:58.260
what's, it's interesting because the question you're asking is the same question that's asked
01:37:03.540
about the political stuff and the, the, or the, the deep state stuff. Like, and the answer is the
01:37:10.500
same. The answer, because when say like, what are we supposed to do about this stuff? What do we sit
01:37:14.580
like? These things are happening. What are we supposed to do? Are we not supposed to fight it?
01:37:17.940
Are we not? The answer is the same. You preach the name of Christ and you, you fight the things that
01:37:25.700
you can fight and you don't try to engage on a higher level than you're called to do.
01:37:30.100
And, and they, they are using the same tactics. Like the thing about the powers that be the deep
01:37:36.660
state, the, the cabal, whatever, they don't have the control. They pretend to have they, that real
01:37:44.180
alchemy going on is them convincing you that they do, that they are the power that Satan is sitting in a
01:37:49.780
throne somewhere being like, ha ha, everything's going according to plan. It's like,
01:37:53.780
like, motherfucker, your plan is meaningless in the, in the eyes of God. Like it's his plan. You
01:37:59.940
don't even realize that you're the one being played here. And with all of your like ancient
01:38:07.220
wisdom, you being the most wise of the, of the, you you're nothing, you're nothing. And don't be
01:38:14.540
afraid of it. Don't be afraid of it. That doesn't like not being afraid does not include not being
01:38:19.680
cautious. It doesn't mean don't be reckless. It just means don't be afraid. They are not in control.
01:38:26.000
And these things are not that, that attack, you are not in control of you. They're, they're affecting
01:38:31.200
you, but we already know the answer. We know who, where, where relief comes from. We know where help
01:38:38.960
comes from. We know where our strength comes from and it doesn't come from us. It's not anything we do.
01:38:45.680
It's reliance on something higher. And that's the same for both of these realms. And like,
01:38:51.280
I mean, honestly, like your show exists because they are connected. These worlds are connected.
01:38:57.200
The thing, the paranormal things that happen to people in their homes, those things are connected
01:39:01.520
to the, they're interacting with the CEOs and the corporate people and the politicians. It's the same
01:39:07.680
things, you know, like I, I don't think half of these things are who they claim to be. You know,
01:39:12.880
there are guys out there like discern, not discernment deliverance people that are like,
01:39:19.280
I spoke to this entity and it's like, I'm sure you did. It's any, you know,
01:39:26.160
Jack or Jill out there will be like, all right, I'm going to go pretend to be Osiris real quick.
01:39:34.800
That's the thing. I think doing this show, we've realized that they're never going to really tell
01:39:38.800
you their name. That's something extremely significant because if you know their name,
01:39:43.440
then you can control them. It's like a, I mean, that's solemn, a solemn monistic magic or something.
01:39:50.720
Yeah. There's power in the name and that's why there's power in the name, like in the name of
01:39:55.440
Jesus Christ. It's like, and like, obviously you guys have covered before that, like there's people
01:40:00.880
out there that have had these incidents and that hasn't worked for them. And I think there is some sort of
01:40:06.080
like alchemical reason of why a human being who's got a knife, who's going to stab you. And you're
01:40:11.120
like, please know in the name of Jesus, they're like, I'm going to cut you anyway. You know, like,
01:40:14.800
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I think that, that works that, that trend, uh, the, by transitive
01:40:22.560
property applies to things that are viewing somebody. So if you're dealing with a person who is oppressed
01:40:26.880
or possessed and wants to do something to you, they're like, those rules don't apply right now.
01:40:32.000
Like those rules, I, I'm touching something physical, you know, uh, like you could be
01:40:37.360
playing a video game and like want to punch somebody and they're like, sorry, I've got
01:40:41.440
God mode on. Every time you punch me, it doesn't hurt me, but then you can get in your car, drive
01:40:44.800
to their house, open the door and punch them in the face. God didn't do anything for them.
01:40:49.920
So there's some sort of allowance. They're following some rule, um, that they could get around the,
01:40:56.400
that bypass, but they can't come into you. You know, if you're imbued, if you're an occupied,
01:41:01.920
vessel, they can't, two spirits aren't, those two opposing spirits can't exist inside you.
01:41:09.520
The same. Yeah. Yeah. Let me, uh, let me ask you this, Wes, we, we talked about it earlier on the,
01:41:15.040
on the top of the show and, uh, and you said that it was going to, uh, come up at some point,
01:41:20.800
uh, this idea of the crow mocker or the, the Raven mocker, uh, how, how does that apply to this story
01:41:27.120
of the meadow and what, what even is it? Uh, so I don't know a lot about it. I assume it's,
01:41:33.600
it's a, one of the many names of, you know, shapeshifters, uh, uh, brujas, things like that.
01:41:41.200
Um, I didn't personally research the crow mocker. I just know that Trey has, and he discusses it
01:41:46.960
briefly in the film. It's okay. Sorry. Um, but, uh, I, I don't want to get too deep into it because
01:41:55.680
of how the things unfold in the film and they're interesting. Um, and we do, do draw some
01:42:01.920
connections to things within the film that, um, I think he's got to go. Um, if you want to take a,
01:42:10.400
a quick break and, and you know, you can come back on camera if you want to let him outside.
01:42:14.720
Okay. That would be great. Go ahead. No problem. We'll keep it going. We'll wait for you to come
01:42:18.640
back. Um, I could actually read a little bit about this Raven mocker here. Uh, so we said before,
01:42:25.680
that it's a, it's a Cherokee spirit, it said to prey on the sick or dying to extend its own
01:42:31.040
lifespan at night. It is believed to fly through the air in fiery form. That sounds a lot like a,
01:42:36.560
kind of like a Phoenix, uh, outstretched arms, resembling wings and sparks trailing behind it.
01:42:43.280
That's pretty specific, fiery form with sparks trailing behind it and outstretched arms that are,
01:42:51.360
that resemble wings. I don't like to, to often say like spiritual things that ancients have seen
01:42:59.600
were just their, uh, inability to describe technology that was beyond their understanding.
01:43:06.080
That sounds a lot like that though. That does kind of sound a lot like that. That's fascinating.
01:43:10.160
So, so it, it flies through the air in a fiery form, leaving us a trail of sparks behind it.
01:43:15.680
It, the flight is accompanied by the sound of rushing wind and their cries resemble, uh,
01:43:24.480
described as resembling a Raven's dive call and they're considered an omen of death. So
01:43:31.440
there's an audible noise, right? There's, there's something like if you were a kid in Gaza,
01:43:36.720
that's how you describe it. Yeah, dude. Right. I mean, that's what I'm saying. It's,
01:43:40.400
it sounds a lot like that. It's fascinating. Um, Raven mockers are said to gather at the homes of
01:43:47.040
the dying, tormenting their victims by pressing on their chest to restrict breathing or throwing them
01:43:54.720
on the ground. So that sounds a lot like poltergeist activity, right? Getting tossed out of your bed or
01:44:00.640
pulled out of your bed. But then you also have that sleep paralysis aspect where there's something on your
01:44:05.120
chest restricting your breathing. After the victim dies, the Raven mocker is believed to remove
01:44:11.120
and consume the heart to absorb the victim's remaining lifespan. No marks are left on the body,
01:44:19.360
but the heart is said to be missing. That's fascinating. How would you determine that?
01:44:22.880
Um, sacred text, mysteries of the Cherokee. Uh, that's interesting. That's some of the, um,
01:44:32.960
the footnotes and then Cherokee myths and legends, 30 tales retold McFarland and company company.
01:44:38.800
Although feared for their power, other witches are said to avoid the Raven mocker. Medicine men
01:44:46.720
using special knowledge can detect and repel them from entering homes. Tradition holds that if
01:44:51.920
Raven mocker, if a Raven mocker is seen in its true form, it dies within seven days. Man,
01:44:57.760
that's awfully specific. Samara comes and gets it. I don't know what, what, I mean,
01:45:04.480
we were talking about, I'll describe it to you in a second. Let me just finish this passage here. Um,
01:45:08.560
Guns Kaliski, Guns Kaliski, a renowned Cherokee shaman was said to have destroyed several
01:45:15.760
Raven mockers by using a specialty made from duck root, enabling him to see them. I wonder how he,
01:45:21.120
he then went about it. So, um, one of the interesting details, Wes, about the Raven mocker,
01:45:26.560
uh, it's said to, um, fly through the air at night in a fiery form with outstretched arms
01:45:35.120
and a trail of sparks behind it. And that it's accompanied by the sound of rushing wind
01:45:42.160
and, and the cries of a Raven's dive. It's like a banshee. Well, it sounds a lot like I was telling
01:45:48.480
top, I don't often like to attribute, um, sort of, uh, what would you call it? A, a, uh, misunderstanding
01:45:57.120
to, to ancient people, because, you know, it's like, the more you look into things, the more you're
01:46:00.320
like, oh, maybe the ancients did know what the hell they were talking about, you know, about some of these
01:46:04.080
things that they were seeing. But sometimes that whole ancient aliens, um, uh, attribution of
01:46:13.120
them, not having the language to describe technology kind of seems like it applies.
01:46:18.000
So when you have something flying through the air at night, uh, with a trail of sparks behind it
01:46:24.800
in a fiery form, uh, and the sound of rushing wind and, and the cries of a Raven accompanying it,
01:46:31.920
it sounds a lot like, I mean, that sounds like a combustion engine. You know what I mean? Like
01:46:35.680
this, this, uh, it sounds like Iron Man, right, right, right. I just finished watching those, uh,
01:46:40.800
with my, my son. Um, so I don't know. I mean, very interesting. And then, yeah, they,
01:46:46.240
this is another interesting detail. They are said to gather at the homes of their victims
01:46:50.880
and they torment them by pressing on their chest to restrict breathing,
01:46:54.480
which sounds a lot like sleep paralysis, uh, or throwing them on the ground,
01:46:58.320
which sounds a lot like poltergeist activity. Oh, you guys should watch the Meadow Project and
01:47:02.320
see what happens. Interesting. Interesting. Full circle. Full circle. Um,
01:47:09.680
like maybe I will say in the trailer, there's a girl saying it grabbed me by the leg and threw me out of
01:47:15.360
bed. Oh, that's right. That is right, man. What the heck is that? That's bizarre. That's bizarre.
01:47:26.080
So what are you going to do, Wes? Are you going to keep doing this? You're going to keep going to
01:47:29.200
these places and see these things. And yeah, as long as you're armored up, right? Yeah. And,
01:47:36.640
and like, there's, there's going to be places I won't go for sure. But for the most part, you know,
01:47:41.920
like I want to tell these people's stories, that's the thing I want to do. And I want to add like
01:47:49.600
one thing I knew when I left my last place was whatever I do with what I can do, it's going to be
01:47:57.040
to serve the kingdom of God somehow, like whatever I do. Um, that doesn't mean I won't do any job ever
01:48:06.080
that doesn't, you know, you've got to put bread on the table. Uh, but I don't want to actively do
01:48:14.000
the opposite. Right. Like I don't want to, um, that's what was hard about the politics stuff is
01:48:19.600
because it wasn't, it was offering, like we were at that job, we were talking about solutions that did
01:48:27.120
not include the truth. It doesn't mean that that doesn't mean that they aren't viable solutions
01:48:32.000
for the time being, or that it's that you're not extrapolating, extracting truth from fact.
01:48:41.440
And you're saying, you may be saying things that are factual, but they're not. Right. And, um, uh,
01:48:47.200
and, and I'm just, I'm not willing to do that anymore. I'm not willing to be like,
01:48:52.480
oh, there's solutions for these like geopolitical nightmares we're living that don't include
01:48:58.080
like knowing the truth. There are solutions that don't involve like saying that, like,
01:49:03.360
we just got to vote the right guy in again. Like, it's just not, it's not doing it for me.
01:49:07.920
You know, it's like, and, and I'm done siding with politicians or, or, or world leaders or,
01:49:13.840
or public figures that if you are not on Christ's side, I'm not on your side, like at the end of the
01:49:20.880
day. And it's like, it is that 10 years ago, I would not have been talking like this. I've been like,
01:49:25.360
well, you know, they're the right guy, like lower taxes and, you know, a better foreign policy.
01:49:30.320
We're going to be sitting pretty. And I'm like, no, it's not true anymore. Yeah. It's not true
01:49:33.760
anymore. It's funny because as you're, as you're saying that without like getting too, uh, deep to
01:49:40.320
it, um, he's, he's got, okay. He's got his puppy. He's, he's doing his thing there. Um, yeah, there's, uh,
01:49:49.760
I guess it's hard to say, but I think that these things are actually not just
01:49:53.760
incompatible, but I think that they're in opposition to each other. Whereas, uh, we've
01:49:58.960
heard about what we do that there are people have issues. They have issue with, uh, the,
01:50:07.520
the faith aspect of what we do. Yeah. Whereas you think that you can balance these things,
01:50:12.720
but you really can't because I guess the realities is just, they are a polar opposites. They seem for a
01:50:18.960
long time to me that they were one in the same, or at least can go hand in hand. Like one leads into
01:50:23.440
the other, but I, one does lead into the other. I think politics should lead into this idea of
01:50:28.880
spirituality and Christianity, but you've got to leave it at the door. And, uh, it gets frustrating
01:50:34.720
for both parties that are in either camp when they're looking at each other because they can't
01:50:40.080
make sense of it. Yeah. And I think people hear that and they think like, what do you,
01:50:44.640
what do you suggest a theocracy? And it's like, no, it's just that any system is a flawed system.
01:50:49.200
If people are imbued by the spirit of Christ, like if, if you, you like, I'm a, uh, a free
01:50:55.360
enterprise guy, right? Like, uh, uh, I don't call it capitalism, capitalism anymore, because what does
01:51:01.120
that even mean? Like we're in a capitalist society and it's a corporate, corporatist nightmare, but like
01:51:07.680
people being free to make their own, to exchange goods and services. Sure. But just like socialism
01:51:13.440
or communism break down because of the godlessness of it, so too does free enterprise because you're
01:51:18.800
not dealing with honest brokers. So people can make like freedom in Christ is not freedom to
01:51:24.960
be libertine. It's freedom to do the right thing. And if you are not individually doing the right thing
01:51:30.960
from the bottom up, then the system is doomed. And so that's the same for the political system.
01:51:36.240
If there's a, I don't care what bill's being passed. If it's not being passed with the spirit
01:51:40.320
of like goodness, uh, like, and, and doing the right thing. And those things are not designed to
01:51:47.040
do that. They're designed to be big, to obfuscate the many bad things they do with a name, like the
01:51:52.000
dream act or whatever, you know, like they want it to sound as possible or as good as, as possible.
01:51:57.440
And that's once again, it's the same with like the new age, the new age you've talked about it a lot.
01:52:03.520
Uh, David, where it's like a lot of these things that they say, like, ah, you know,
01:52:07.760
the health benefits of this, the, the, the, the mental health benefits of, of these practices.
01:52:13.760
Yeah. I'm sure, you know, or something to like Eastern philosophy and like chakra.
01:52:18.800
I'm sure there is something that's wonderful about that, but at what cost, you know, what,
01:52:22.640
what is the root of it? Yoga, the same thing, you know, like, oh yeah, those stretches are great.
01:52:26.640
Are you trying to channel interdimensional entities while you do it?
01:52:29.600
So that's exactly where I've been at lately with the whole yoga thing. It's like, I can
01:52:32.960
probably use some stretching. My back is pretty stiff. And I think it's, it's a good thing to
01:52:37.600
incorporate stretching, especially if you're lifting and things like that. But at what point
01:52:41.360
are you trying to meditate and, and get in contact with something to align chakras, make yourself some
01:52:47.680
sort of a, an antenna of sorts to receive. It's just, just see five. It's a, then see five yoga.
01:52:54.720
And, uh, it's like, have you ever seen that show? The OA dude? Yeah. What a wild show. Yeah.
01:53:02.000
Cause that's, that's, and I think that's the difference is that you could do all of those.
01:53:05.760
They're literally just making body sigils. Like, yeah, that's repeated body sigils and,
01:53:11.280
and like yoga, you could interpret to be the same thing, but you don't have to do that. You can
01:53:15.760
do a downward dog and, uh, and, uh, whatever. And you're not trying to communicate with, you know,
01:53:21.920
I was so like, I just got this thing in my back dog. Yeah. I'm just trying to work this thing out
01:53:27.280
of my back. I, yeah, we've been in a similar place. Um, you know, everybody knows that the,
01:53:32.960
the whole falling out with, with Clint and we're not doing dangerous anymore, but
01:53:37.280
after it was removed and I think God removed it, I was able to look back and say like, yeah, dude,
01:53:42.960
I had to compromise my, my beliefs in order to engage with those ideas in a way that wasn't
01:53:51.440
going to constantly derail the show. You know what I mean? Because it's like, if you tell me
01:53:56.080
that, uh, we just need to do X, Y, and Z, and it's great that cash Patel is the head of the FBI.
01:54:03.600
What I really want to tell you is it doesn't, it doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't matter at all.
01:54:08.480
That cash Patel is the head of the FBI. It doesn't matter that your guy got out. It doesn't
01:54:13.040
matter. But what that makes is for every episode to be a contentious episode where I am unwilling to
01:54:19.280
move from my position, because in order to engage with these ideas and have a conversation that's
01:54:23.680
going to last two hours, I need to be able to say more than it doesn't matter. But the funny thing is
01:54:29.200
that on the flip side of that, that's the response that you would get from the political side.
01:54:35.680
Like I'm sure if we sat down with a, you know, like a Tim pool, he would, he would give you very
01:54:42.000
much. It doesn't really, that doesn't apply. It doesn't apply here. And it's like, yeah, you're
01:54:46.400
right. It doesn't, but neither does your shit. Not from my worldview. And I think my worldview is
01:54:51.520
correct. Yeah. And I'm, and I know you guys have a certain opinion of, of Tim and stuff. And I,
01:54:58.640
I, I, you know what, I, I like, uh, I like Tim and I think that he is, I think he's coming around.
01:55:07.920
I don't think you, you keep a guy like Cashman around and Tim obviously loves him. You know what
01:55:14.800
I mean? So like, I think what Tim has done is he just worked himself into a position where he can't
01:55:19.360
really engage with these ideas because everything he's built with built has, has been predicated on
01:55:24.800
engaging with these ideas. Yeah. What I, what I was saying is it's unfair. I've never spoken to Tim
01:55:29.920
in this, in that manner. I'm talking to like the people that we have, the real politic heads and
01:55:34.480
political heads, like Dave Smith. Yeah. He gave us that. Uh, I reject the premise. It was like,
01:55:39.680
yeah, dude, I reject your fucking premise. Like we can keep debating. It doesn't matter what you've
01:55:44.880
done here is, I mean, it's kind of astounding that you've built such a, like a, a large following
01:55:50.260
doing this, but I'm like, in the end, it's like, it's fruitless in a way. Cause where are we
01:55:54.300
leading people? Where are we going? I have a great Dave Smith, um, anecdote from where he was on our
01:56:00.620
show. Um, when we did the live event and I was, I had been there all week setting it up and I was
01:56:08.300
just flustered and done by the time the show started. And I walked up to Tim, that was asking me to do
01:56:12.860
something. And on the mic, Dave yelled at me. He was like, get your genocide out of here. And I was
01:56:19.740
like, and I had a shirt on and it had Hebrew like words across it. He was like, get your, uh, Zionist
01:56:30.380
genocide, get out of here. He was like, what's that say? And I said, it says Jesus is Messiah.
01:56:35.100
He goes, Oh, you just, you just want to piss off everybody.
01:56:38.460
I was upset about that Dave Smith episode because it was like, I do regard him as a,
01:56:47.500
as a great mind in his ability to, he, that was, he was being facetious, I should say.
01:56:52.940
Like, no, no, obviously in that moment. Um, but when I spoke to him, I was just trying to get him
01:57:00.140
to, I wanted to see what it was like when a guy like him engaged with these ideas and I couldn't
01:57:04.700
even get him to engage with the ideas. He rejected the premise outright. He wouldn't step
01:57:09.500
foot in that supernatural kind of a place. And I thought that it would have been an easy
01:57:15.100
compromise for him to make given the state of the world. Um, and you know, certainly what happens at
01:57:19.740
the upper echelons of politics, given all the Epstein-esque kind of, uh, you know, things that
01:57:24.140
we're subjected to now. And I thought, well, certainly now more than ever, a guy like Dave Smith can
01:57:30.780
entertain these ideas. And I was fascinated to see how he interacted with them. He wouldn't even
01:57:36.140
give me that. And I said, yeah, everybody gone ramp is in a different location. It is, it is. Uh,
01:57:42.700
but I had never, and, and I haven't, I hadn't up until that moment. And since then I still have not
01:57:49.980
had it happen again. Had anyone completely reject engaging with the ideas, just flat out,
01:57:57.180
reject and get, I won't engage. Cause when you say I reject the premise more effectively,
01:58:02.060
if you go back and watch that episode, what he said is I am unwilling to engage with those ideas
01:58:07.740
for an hour and a half to two hours. And I thought fascinating. Yes. I've never experienced that
01:58:13.580
before. And I thought that I would get something totally different from Dave Smith there. And, um,
01:58:20.860
and it's not what I got. So, I mean, that, yeah, I don't know. My read on that is probably
01:58:25.260
different than yours, or maybe it's not. You tell me if I'm wrong. Somebody who's unwilling to engage
01:58:30.780
with an idea is not somebody who dismisses them out of hand. It's somebody who cannot deal with
01:58:34.620
the reality of them. Yeah. Yeah. I think that Dave Smith is used to being, and I'm not saying
01:58:40.300
this to his detriment. I mean, if anything, it's actually a compliment. He's used to, to being able to
01:58:45.420
engage at a very high level with any topic that you throw at him. If you have Dave Smith in your
01:58:51.500
chair, if you, if you have him on your stage, then you are guaranteed a high level engagement
01:58:57.580
with whatever the subject matter is. He does not engage with something. It seems to be the case
01:59:06.140
that is going to have him give a subpar performance. And so it was like, he's, he doesn't,
01:59:11.900
he doesn't know enough about it. Yeah. He doesn't have a handle on the situation. And rather than
01:59:19.020
engage in it in, in any sort of lower capacity than what you're typically used to seeing from
01:59:23.420
Dave Smith, he's just not going to engage with it at all, which is like, you know, it's a, it's a
01:59:27.820
safe bet. And I don't dislike these people. It's the same thing with, with, uh, with Tim. I don't
01:59:32.380
dislike Tim. Um, we bust his balls a lot, but, and I, I, I kind of really just want, I want Tim to get
01:59:39.900
it. I want, I, and I think he does kind of get it on some level. It's just like, how much are you
01:59:44.620
willing to pull back the curtain? But what's, what's a shame about that is like, we don't have
01:59:48.700
any curtain. There's no curtain here. Um, you know, if, if you throw something at me that I
01:59:54.140
don't understand, I'm going to tell you that I'm retarded and I just don't understand it. Um, I,
01:59:58.460
I like to think that I, I, I get it though. Um, and I think that he does, but he's just like,
02:00:05.820
like I tweeted something this morning. I said, are you having fun? And it was just like to the,
02:00:09.820
to the, to, to Twitter at large. And, um, and I think once you, the reason you stop having fun
02:00:16.140
is because you won't allow yourself to be seen as, as the clown at all. Yeah. And that,
02:00:23.580
that puts you in a really, really rough spot. So, so Dave Smith, it's like in order to engage in
02:00:30.700
this supernatural conversation, he might've had to admit in that moment, much like I will admit
02:00:35.180
at any given moment, I'm retarded. I don't know anything about that. It seems that it's,
02:00:40.300
it's valid, but I know nothing about it. I've not spent any time looking into it.
02:00:44.300
So on that topic, I'm retarded, but that, that lowers you to the clown. And if you don't want to
02:00:49.740
be that, well, then you don't engage with it at all. But I think once you do that, you stop having
02:00:55.420
any fun. And I just wonder if, if these guys are having fun anymore, I don't know.
02:01:00.060
Right. And there's something to discussing it that is acknowledging it and acknowledging it
02:01:04.940
is tough because if you have a stable, that's, I feel like that's what a lot of new,
02:01:12.300
not new Christians, but people who are becoming like Christ curious, it's at the start, it's very,
02:01:20.620
you know what I mean? I'm curious. That's a great, that's a great shirt for people that like,
02:01:24.380
you know, I don't know, but I like to know. But I think it's very destabilizing at first because
02:01:29.340
you are built on a foundation of sand and to move to a foundation of stone,
02:01:37.580
it requires some movement on your part. It requires you deconstructing your domicile there
02:01:42.620
and moving it somewhere else. And that's very uncomfortable because at least, you know,
02:01:46.300
where it's the devil, you know, type thing. It's very, you're comfortable in that. And
02:01:53.820
we were talking about sleep token before the show and they have a line. That's something about
02:02:03.660
like discordant days become harmony in your mind.
02:02:08.380
And it's like, you are too afraid to move to what would be better because
02:02:12.860
you are comfortable with what's not working because it's yours. So like moving from dysfunction
02:02:18.860
to function is scary because it means something with you or something around you is wrong. Even
02:02:23.980
you know, it is, you're like, you can reconcile and say like, it's not that bad, you know?
02:02:33.820
Dave Smith. The dude's a hundred thousand times smarter than I am. So like, but you do see that
02:02:39.980
in people, right? You do see it where it's like, I'm not going to, it's, it's the like,
02:02:43.820
why don't you leave your abusive husband? And you're like, you don't get it. He's not like that all the
02:02:46.940
time, you know? And, and it's the same. Like he would be the first person to say like the world's
02:02:52.060
messed up. Right. And he'd be like, Hey, there's this great hope that did the most amazing thing that you
02:02:57.660
could like put your faith in and, and it absolve, not absolves you, but it, he, he took the brunt of
02:03:05.180
your punishment for you and your role in it and how that can change you. That's a hard pill to swallow
02:03:11.020
for somebody who's built their life on them. Yeah. He's, I'm not saying he did that. I'm just saying
02:03:16.060
people do. Yeah. So Jordan Peterson fallacy, right? Where it's like, what do you believe in God? What
02:03:20.540
do you mean by God? It's like faggot. Do you believe it? It's a simple, it's a simple question,
02:03:26.460
but I guess like, you know, to these people, these, uh, very high intellectuals, like I think
02:03:32.620
if they have to come to terms with it, I think I was mentioning this on the previous show, but, uh,
02:03:37.260
if you have to come to terms with this thing existing, that means that you have to also come
02:03:41.420
to terms with your entire personality, yourself, what you've done before and what you're going to
02:03:46.460
do after that has to die. Yeah. That's painful. I somewhat push back on you again on the Jordan
02:03:53.500
Peterson topic. Cause I actually like that answer from him is cause he's saying what,
02:03:57.660
what Christ means by believe in me and what Paul means by put your faith in him is not what most
02:04:02.220
Christians do. Most Christians say like, yeah, I believe it. Anyway, what's on HBO tonight? You know,
02:04:09.260
like it's, it's, it's passive. And he's saying like belief in something like that is much more powerful.
02:04:14.940
I'm referencing when they ask him if he believes in God.
02:04:18.940
Yeah. And I think, right. And I think, uh, I think that there, yeah, there's, there is,
02:04:26.140
yes, Christ made it simple. However, what belief means, I think is a big question because like,
02:04:31.980
I've seen those books at the bookstore that are like very passive. You're okay. I'm okay.
02:04:36.220
Christianity. It's like, just acknowledge that he did it and you're good. And it's like,
02:04:39.660
that is not what belief is. Belief changes you from the inside out. Like Christian does not mean
02:04:44.620
follower of Christ. It means emulator of Christ. It means change. Like when it's the whole, like,
02:04:50.940
sinners come to me as you are, but go from me and sin no more. There's a big caveat there of like,
02:04:57.260
it doesn't mean you're not going to ever sin again. It means your attitude towards sin changes. It means
02:05:01.660
that I don't want to do this anymore. I want to die not only into the world, but to me, that's tough.
02:05:07.580
And that level of belief is man, it's tough. It is rough. And, and, and, you know, it's,
02:05:16.140
it's like vomiting out who you are, who you've come to accept. Cause we do rationalize ourselves
02:05:23.580
as good people, right? We're like, I'm a good person, but you have to accept the fact that like,
02:05:27.980
oh man, I'm trash without you. I'm literal garbage without you. I'm made in the image of God. And,
02:05:33.980
and I'm a desecration of his name by my very existence without the, without the Holy Spirit,
02:05:40.620
without redemption through Christ. It's really hard when you've been,
02:05:43.100
you've been put up on a pedestal because of your materialistic ideas, right? So you're really good
02:05:47.660
at engaging with the materialistic realm with politics and all these things, and your understanding
02:05:52.140
of it and all of your study has elevated you to all of a sudden a person of authority,
02:05:57.340
somebody who celebrated. And these people I think are afraid not only of, of engaging with these
02:06:03.100
ideas that they don't understand and having to admit that, that whatever they've done is, is,
02:06:07.580
you know, folly, but it also makes them the low man on the totem pole. So you've climbed one totem
02:06:13.740
pole for as long as you could grab, you know, scratching and clawing your way to the top.
02:06:18.540
And now all of a sudden you're afraid of being cast at the bottom of the next totem pole,
02:06:21.900
but I don't see it that way at all. Going back to my engagement with Dave Smith,
02:06:26.940
I thought it was fascinating or would have been fascinating to see how a guy with his mind
02:06:32.220
interacts with these ideas. So it wouldn't cast Dave Smith at the bottom of the totem. No,
02:06:37.580
it would, it would just, you know, he would all like all of us, the more you learn, the more you
02:06:43.020
realize you didn't know to begin with, right? That's, that's kind of what learning is all about,
02:06:47.420
in my opinion. And, um, and there is no totem pole when it comes to belief in Christ, right?
02:06:53.580
I think that there's like this, this idea that there's a hierarchy. I believe more than you,
02:06:58.780
I'm more well studied than you, but Christ really has made it incredibly simple in a lot of ways.
02:07:04.380
Um, and, and, and, and it wouldn't have casted him in a negative, uh, light at all. But I think
02:07:10.540
a lot of these people, they are, uh, guarding the gold. Yeah. And to your earlier point about like,
02:07:17.180
you've built yourself on these ideas you've built, it, it makes you feel like, oh, I, if I believe this,
02:07:23.100
then it means these things I've done have no meaning, but it's the opposite. It's like the
02:07:27.980
reason you were able to do that in the first place was because imagine how powerful, like your,
02:07:34.300
your testimony is going to be and how, like how your knowledge will evolve once you,
02:07:39.260
the curtain is pulled back. Like it's, it's not like I'm a metaphor guy. So it's like, and
02:07:47.900
imagine training your whole life to understand music theory. And then somebody was like, hey, by the way,
02:07:52.380
if you do this, you'll have perfect pitch. And you're like, no, because I, I understand it on
02:07:57.900
a mathematical level. And it's like, yeah, but you could feel it on a, you could feel it. And it's
02:08:02.380
like, no, that'll make all my knowledge worthless. And it's like, no, it's not. If you have perfect
02:08:05.980
pitch, imagine how powerful you're going to be musically. If you already know this,
02:08:10.140
whereas if you're somebody with perfect pitch, who's never studied music, you may be able to like
02:08:14.220
play a tune. But if you can't hang with the studio musicians who can recite, read sheet music,
02:08:19.100
it's like, what good are you? You know, like, dude, that's like, I would, I, I'm never going
02:08:22.540
to claim to be the Dave Smith of conspiracy and occult, but I came through that way. Right. I,
02:08:28.620
I learned all of those ideas first, conspiracy and, and occult concepts and all this crap.
02:08:34.380
I saw that first. And then when I finally came over to Christianity and realized
02:08:38.940
that I had been not giving this thing that it's due that had been there the entire time and was always
02:08:44.540
like all the information kept kind of flowing towards it. And I kept going, ah, not today,
02:08:47.580
not today. Once I did that, it like, it didn't say, wipe the slate clean. Everything you think,
02:08:54.060
you know, is, is totally bullshit. Um, and therefore forget it all. It was like, here is a much greater
02:09:00.460
context for all the things you think, you know. Yeah. And you're an asset to believers who don't
02:09:05.180
know those things. So whenever I bump into somebody that's like, oh, you're just a, you're just a
02:09:10.460
Christian. You believe that your God is real when all these other gods aren't real. It's like, you
02:09:16.860
think you understand what I am. I actually think those other ones are real too. They're just lower
02:09:21.260
case G baby. Like those are also real. And I've been through all that crap. If you want to sit here
02:09:26.540
and talk to me about numerology and, and all this crap, like I've, I've been through it. I understand
02:09:31.260
it. I see, I see the symbols they're there. You know what I mean? You're not wrong in noticing that,
02:09:36.300
but I got through all that and realized that I was wrong about my interpretation of these things.
02:09:41.100
It's like much of the information is real. The nature of it all is what's incredibly important.
02:09:46.860
And if you don't have a grasp on the nature, then your interpretation of all the things that are real
02:09:51.820
is skewed and, and massively to your detriment. And so, um, I, I think it would have been the same
02:09:57.660
thing and who knows, you know, everybody's journey is different. Dave Smith did say having a child made
02:10:01.980
him believe in God. And my thing with that was like, well, then you should probably be tenaciously
02:10:07.420
after that, as tenaciously as you are after everything else. Um, but listen, it's the two
02:10:12.940
hour, uh, and 10 mark. Let's bring it in for a landing here. One more time, Wes, when is this is
02:10:18.220
going to, we're going to try to drop this, uh, tonight. So what's the date of the release of the
02:10:21.660
documentary? Where can people find it, uh, and check it out? Uh, it will be on moment.co.
02:10:28.700
Um, it's like a premier, uh, website and it comes out July 27th, uh, July 27th. It'll,
02:10:38.860
it'll drop at 8 PM Eastern time. Um, and yeah, uh, I, I hope you guys, uh, I hope everybody enjoys
02:10:47.180
it. Um, it's, it's, it's not what I think a lot of people are expecting. Um, it's like I said,
02:10:53.500
it's more of an adaptation of the stories of the book and some like casual insights on it. Some,
02:10:58.220
it's not meant to be a, um, like a diagnosis of what, you know, we think or anything like that,
02:11:09.340
like that didn't feel appropriate texting you afterwards, because I know, obviously I can't
02:11:17.120
ask you here on the show, what you think is happening there, but after I watch it, I will
02:11:21.300
be messaging you. And if you guys want to bring me back, we could talk about it. We can talk about
02:11:24.880
the stories. Yeah. Because there's so much that I want to ask you, but I don't want to give away
02:11:30.460
too much. Um, so I think it would be a good idea to have you back on and, and, and is it in Georgia?
02:11:34.880
Not allowed to say top lobsters. Stop. No comment. Unbelievable. No comment. Um, look, Wes, where
02:11:43.340
else can everybody find your work? Uh, that's for the documentary anywhere else they could look you up.
02:11:46.880
Um, yeah, like you can check out my old work on YouTube. There's clips of it. Um, show called
02:11:53.280
cast castle that I did. I'm, I'm proud of that. It was just a silly, stupid thing that we did. Um,
02:12:00.440
like, uh, it's always sunny ish type thing at the office. Um, I saw a couple of people saying they
02:12:07.160
love the show supernatural. We did two episodes that were direct spoofs of supernatural with Tony
02:12:12.200
Merkel, where we took on a tuba that took the shape of Joe Biden. Um, and spoiler, uh, the way
02:12:21.300
we couldn't figure out how to defeat him. So we just trapped him at the top of stairs and he couldn't
02:12:25.240
get down. Let's give my scream at the top of stairs. You're good. Hey Wes, are you having fun,
02:12:33.140
dude? Oh yeah. I'm having fun. Uh, I'm, I'm ready to move on from this piece, this film. Um,
02:12:39.500
it's been, I've been working on it since January. So, uh, yeah, it's been a long time coming in.
02:12:45.640
I'm going into the next, going right into the next one. And then we got another one right after
02:12:49.440
that. So, um, we're, we're trying to be consistent, but not like oversaturate at the same time or,
02:12:57.260
or sacrifice quality for quantity. Um, but there's a lot of stories to tell and, and this, our whole
02:13:03.740
team feels called to do this. Like I'll say encouraging thing, like Kent on our team, who is
02:13:10.080
not a Christian, but he's not adversarial. I just remember at one point he called me during this
02:13:18.500
and he said, I gotta go back to church just un, un provoked or unsolicited. He was just like,
02:13:25.080
I just feel like I should do that. And I was like, all right, in my ledger one, got one. So
02:13:32.720
this was worth it. One person being there. And I was like, yeah. And that's what we want from this
02:13:37.100
ultimately is, is for people to say, cause I'm sure you guys get it. The people that are like,
02:13:41.920
Hey, I wasn't even thinking about this. And now it's something I'm considering and I see it for what
02:13:46.560
it is. And I see the world for what it is. And, and that's what we want is to people to see the power
02:13:51.920
of the Lord and understand that he's more powerful than the forces of evil.
02:13:58.860
Well, I think that's a great message. Um, that's a great place to put a fork in it. And we'd love to
02:14:03.320
have you back. Uh, maybe next time we can grab somebody. I don't know if you have access to
02:14:06.840
anybody who can come on and also elaborate a little bit on, on what goes on there at the meadow. Um,
02:14:12.420
but I think we should run it back because a lot of people, you know, this is a good way to get
02:14:16.300
people to go and check it out. I know I'm going to check it out. I'll be there at 27th, uh, 8 PM,
02:14:20.980
uh, but I'm going to have a lot of questions after it's over. So yeah, there'll be a lot of
02:14:25.520
questions. Um, it's like I said, it's, it's a, it's not an analysis. It's a presentation,
02:14:30.440
right? It's a, here's what happened. Um, and not a like, okay, let's look into this. Cause we just,
02:14:36.420
I have my thoughts and like, there's several things I wanted to bring up on here. Um,
02:14:41.580
I was like, ah, I can't go there yet. Um, see, see, all right. All right. We're going to have
02:14:46.320
you back on. We'll talk about whatever the hell is going on at the meadow. Uh, guys,
02:14:50.900
if you want to see it, be there on the 27th at 8 PM. What's the website? One more time.
02:14:55.220
Moment.co. Moment.co. All right, guys, we know where to find it. Uh, Wes, thank you,
02:15:01.800
brother. It's always a pleasure talking to you. And, uh, until next time soon. Until next time.
02:15:06.240
And thank you guys. Until next time. Obey, submit, and comply guys. Peace out.
02:15:25.140
What they see with their eyes is what there is to see.