Nephilim Death Squad - 221： Ancient Archetypes to Fix Modern Men w⧸ Alex Petkas (Cost of Glory)

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00:01:12.200 Top loves the productions.

00:01:13.440 We are being hypnotized by people like this.

00:01:22.500 Newsreaders, politicians, teachers, lecturers.

00:01:27.220 We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people.

00:01:34.880 And the chasm between what we're told is going on and what is really going on is absolutely important.

00:01:41.720 Oh, yeah, dude.

00:01:43.160 This is Netflix.

00:01:43.880 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen,

00:02:12.400 Welcome to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. 0.67

00:02:15.180 I am David Lee Corbo, a.k.a. The Raven.

00:02:17.720 That is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation.

00:02:20.140 Before we get into today's guest, a little reminder.

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00:02:43.900 It's coming together.

00:02:44.560 It's coming together.

00:02:45.660 Also, a discount code off of merchandise from toplobster.com.

00:02:49.420 Can we not?

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00:02:59.040 Go buy your favorite shirt.

00:03:00.100 It's disrespectfully matched to your sneakers.

00:03:04.040 I mean, whatever.

00:03:06.760 We're at a weird turning point in the United States.

00:03:09.620 We might as well match our clothes to our shirts.

00:03:12.060 As the ship sinks.

00:03:13.720 As the ship sinks.

00:03:14.740 As the ship sinks.

00:03:15.420 Let's get into the guests.

00:03:16.460 This is disrespectful.

00:03:17.760 Yes, we are joined today by Alex of Cost of Glory.

00:03:22.880 Alex, thank you for joining us today.

00:03:24.400 Before we get into the conversation, let's show off this website.

00:03:27.140 Let's talk a little bit about what it is that you do.

00:03:29.640 What it is that you focus on?

00:03:31.540 Yeah, great to be here with you, gentlemen.

00:03:33.640 I'm a former academic.

00:03:36.020 I was a professor of ancient Greek and Roman history and philosophy.

00:03:41.280 And I quit my tenure track job in 2020 to, you know, escape what everybody can kind of guess.

00:03:50.220 I was trying to escape.

00:03:52.060 And now I am a guy on the internet and a podcaster.

00:03:58.540 I have the Cost of Glory podcast where basically I'm trying to showcase some of the greatest leaders from Rome and from Greece in their biographies, kind of in technicolor.

00:04:12.840 But the object of the Cost of Glory is to kind of get people to maybe not fall in love with Julius Caesar, but at least appreciate who he really was.

00:04:24.980 And people around him, like Pompey and Cicero, but also famous Greeks like Pericles.

00:04:30.560 And there's a biography collection.

00:04:32.860 I said I was like a historian of Roman Greece and a student of philosophy.

00:04:38.380 Well, there's this ancient philosopher, Plutarch, who I'm following, who basically thought that biography was the best way to kind of become a great man.

00:04:46.600 Like you study biography, you study their lives.

00:04:49.500 And it's not just about it kind of being great in magnitude, but also about being good, too.

00:04:54.780 So that was like his angle on how you can become your true self.

00:05:02.620 So I think it's a really cool idea.

00:05:04.340 And I'm trying to kind of recreate that for people today who may have no point of reference for ancient Greece and Rome and try to make it accessible.

00:05:12.740 And I do some other programs around this.

00:05:14.720 Like we have a little online rhetoric school and we do retreats in Rome and Greece in a couple of weeks, actually, we're going.

00:05:22.620 And so we're interested in those kind of like and for men, too, in particular, we do like men's only stuff, which I think is really hard to find these days.

00:05:31.420 And that's one of the reasons I thought is important.

00:05:34.940 Well, it is really important.

00:05:36.760 And you're talking about strong leaders and you're talking about you leaving academia, right?

00:05:42.580 Yeah, the men only part really does resonate with you leaving academia, because from the I mean, some previous studies that I saw, like I think women are way more likely to graduate from college.

00:05:53.080 They do much better all throughout school.

00:05:55.320 And it seems like a program that's aimed at them and has ignored men.

00:06:00.440 But I have a question about what do you mean by you do a retreat about rhetoric with men?

00:06:07.320 What is what does that entail?

00:06:08.520 Well, yeah, well, so rhetoric is, you know, it's it's got a kind of a bad name these days.

00:06:16.380 You know, that's just a bunch of rhetoric.

00:06:17.540 And here's the rhetoric of this political party.

00:06:20.140 But it's the the Greek word is rectorike.

00:06:24.120 It means the speaker's art.

00:06:25.560 And it was this kind of discipline that was developed in first in the great democratic cities of of ancient Greece, especially Athens, where public speaking was the quintessential skill for success in life, especially in the public arena.

00:06:44.580 You know, persuading assemblies and courtrooms and and it wasn't just about kind of like, you know, developing confidence as a speaker and persuading people.

00:06:53.720 It's it also grew into this whole art of like developing your character for public life, too.

00:07:00.480 And and so it it's it's a discipline that also encompasses the study of history, because, you know, a lot of what you do in a great political speech then as now is is to draw on great historical examples and inspire people with them.

00:07:15.740 You have to kind of build that data bank and so what what we think is really lacking in my friends and I in education is this like emphasis on becoming a public man through cultivating the ability to, you know, speak in front of crowds.

00:07:32.020 And so we we do we go and we see some sites in, you know, the morning, for example, and then in the afternoon, we just like have debates and and impromptu speeches and study some of the, you know, the the techniques by which you can persuade, analyze the occasional speech, have like Jeffersonian dinner kind of experiences where we just like enjoy male camaraderie.

00:07:57.640 But in a serious vein, where we're kind of like standing up and making arguments and debating things of interest.

00:08:02.980 And it's it's so it's kind of like fun, but also self-development at the same time.

00:08:07.660 And I think that's what one of the things that we've lost.

00:08:10.860 We used to have institutions like this.

00:08:13.600 Toastmasters went co-ed in the 70s.

00:08:16.240 Toastmasters used to be like super cool and I don't know, like like a fraternity almost.

00:08:22.020 But if you go now, it's that's not the vibe at my local Toastmasters.

00:08:25.680 I mean, it's useful, but it's not the same thing.

00:08:28.280 And so you can see there is there is a huge need for this.

00:08:33.520 And you could see people trying to fill that void.

00:08:35.920 But you get weird stuff like somebody just mentioned the men in the river holding each other like where they grab each other and they scream in each other's faces and then they sob and they embrace each other.

00:08:45.940 And it's like it's really strange.

00:08:48.080 It's it's almost like this masochistic kind of a thing where you're you're paying a dude to scream in your face and then belittle you.

00:08:57.540 And then and then you have an emotional breakdown with what Alex seems to be talking about here with with biographies are learning about the different archetypes of men and how to embody them.

00:09:08.240 And these guys, I mean, it's all over the place.

00:09:11.720 People are embodying female archetypes. 0.94

00:09:15.380 Yeah, the male archetype is already kind of fractured in the minds of most young people where they don't really know what it is.

00:09:21.600 They'll say toxic masculinity.

00:09:22.780 And it's like, no, that's like it's a it's an exaggeration or a caricature of.

00:09:28.240 But then those caricatures do rise.

00:09:30.340 You get like an Andrew Tate who has like, you know, some redeemable qualities.

00:09:33.720 But then he's also telling you have sex with the Hiram of women.

00:09:37.600 The Lamborghini is the most important thing.

00:09:40.060 You know, he's not got a family that he's raising or anything like that.

00:09:42.820 It's just it's just this like really cartoonized version of masculinity.

00:09:47.660 I think it's important what what you're going to tell us probably today.

00:09:50.220 Can we can we go through the common archetypes that were in ancient Greece from the actual philosophers that we probably should be drawing some inspiration from?

00:10:00.200 Yeah, great question.

00:10:01.660 Well, a lot of the.

00:10:04.720 So one of the great archetypes is Achilles.

00:10:07.840 He's he's this great warrior.

00:10:09.820 He's it's a mythological figure there.

00:10:12.620 He's depicted in Homer's Iliad.

00:10:15.100 Maybe he existed.

00:10:16.020 I like to believe that some Achilles or somebody like him existed.

00:10:19.080 He's he's this kind of super fighter, the best man on the battlefield.

00:10:24.180 And and he strives.

00:10:26.980 He's half half man, half God as well.

00:10:28.720 Half man, half God.

00:10:30.220 You know, as Homer tells the story, sometimes he seems like a man.

00:10:33.020 Sometimes he seems like more than a man.

00:10:36.140 But but he he's mortal, too.

00:10:38.080 So, you know, he has the choice at at Troy and kind of throughout his life.

00:10:44.980 It's like prophesied that he will.

00:10:47.540 He has the choice to either live a life of peaceful obscurity, a long, prosperous life back in his home country.

00:10:59.220 And he actually thinks about leaving the battle at some point.

00:11:01.260 He gets insulted by Agamemnon, the kind of leader of the Greeks at Troy.

00:11:06.060 And it's like, screw you guys, I'm going home.

00:11:08.960 I'm going to go live my long, happy life with, you know, wealth and hot women. 1.00

00:11:13.620 But the other side of the choice for him is to have a short life, but everlasting glory.

00:11:21.500 And and he eventually chooses the everlasting glory route.

00:11:25.380 And famously, he gets shot in the heel by Paris later.

00:11:28.220 This is after the narration of the Iliad.

00:11:30.560 That's that's what happens to Achilles.

00:11:32.340 And so that's one of these paradigms of like, you know, flaming out in this grand, you know, inferno of of of of excellence.

00:11:41.980 For the sake of maybe a higher goal or maybe maybe it's, you know, on behalf of the Greeks, maybe it's kind of on behalf of your own reputation.

00:11:51.240 So that's like one paradigm.

00:11:54.020 Another kind of contrasting paradigm that is the other hero of the other poem attributed to Homer, the the Odyssey.

00:12:02.760 Odysseus is also a fighter at Troy.

00:12:05.320 He's also one of the great warriors, but he's not he's not as good as Achilles.

00:12:09.600 And, you know, he doesn't pretend to be, but he's really good at persuasion.

00:12:13.340 He's really good at kind of mastering trickery sometimes deceit.

00:12:18.720 He's really good politically wise in counsel.

00:12:22.080 He's the guy who comes up with the idea for the Trojan horse to defeat the Trojans by not by brute force, but by kind of stratagem.

00:12:31.580 And he's also a kind of family man in a way that Achilles, well, Achilles has a son.

00:12:38.320 But, you know, Odysseus, right, he's got he's left this happy life on his island of Ithaca way off on the other side of Greece.

00:12:48.340 And he tries to get home after the Battle of Troy and the Trojan War takes him 10 years.

00:12:55.720 You know, he meets all these monsters and strange people.

00:12:58.760 All of his crew die.

00:13:00.440 He finally gets home 10 years after the Trojan War ends.

00:13:04.620 So he's been away for 20 years.

00:13:05.940 And his wife has been there kind of fending off these suitors and kind of trying to stay faithful to Odysseus.

00:13:15.600 And all of these men are around her saying, hey, baby, he's dead.

00:13:18.700 You know, pick pick pick a winner, you know, and she kind of keeps them at bay. 1.00

00:13:23.840 And meanwhile, Odysseus, his son, Telemachus, is, you know, he was an infant when Odysseus left.

00:13:30.460 So they don't know each other, his son.

00:13:32.260 And and and and so he comes back and he kind of clears the suitors out of his house and reclaims what is his.

00:13:40.820 And it's a kind of a he's a model of like how, OK, dying in battle and glory is a good thing, but also like founding a legacy that's going to live on generation to generation to to reclaim what you built.

00:13:54.160 You know, it's I think Odysseus is kind of a hero of like building this this society around a great household.

00:14:00.180 So so these are like two two options in life that I think are equally valid and and maybe suited to different times and different characters.

00:14:10.900 Sometimes you don't have a choice.

00:14:12.020 You just it's Achilles or bust.

00:14:13.940 Sometimes there's no great war to fight and you you build a legacy.

00:14:17.340 And there's many more archetypes like the the philosopher archetype embodied by a guy like Socrates questioning the the kind of corrupt values of his society, rejecting the whole.

00:14:33.260 Game, the kind of roulette table of honors that seems to promote people up to high office that don't deserve it and don't don't really know any any better how to run a state than than your average Joe on the street and kind of getting ridiculed and eventually murdered or executed by your own people for that reason.

00:14:56.400 And, you know, one could spin out spin off many examples, but I think that one one of the big takeaways that people, you know, the classics used to be this foundation piece of education in the West in America as well as Britain.

00:15:10.740 And, you know, I got a little bit of classics when I was younger, but I kind of got to college.

00:15:15.160 I felt like I realized that I knew nothing of what people were supposed to know 100 years ago.

00:15:20.660 So sometimes somehow I discovered this, what I think it gave you is this library of of examples to choose from of like manly excellence, various manly excellence.

00:15:32.140 Yes, scaffolding that you could kind of pick your path.

00:15:35.180 And I think we've lost that and we're kind of grasping at straws now.

00:15:38.380 This is why you get these weird, you know, scream into a pillow, sweat lodge men's retreat experiences like what is masculinity?

00:15:44.840 And, you know, ask, ask, ask, ask a psychology professor what what masculinity is and, you know, maybe they'll come up with something, but it's not it's not grounded in this deep historical experience.

00:15:57.620 And so I think it's amorphous.

00:15:59.860 It's like this floating thing.

00:16:01.400 It's interesting to me that you should be studying these these male archetypes and then at the same time.

00:16:09.380 Remove yourself from academia.

00:16:13.080 Because of a thing that I think is only allowed to propagate when you remove strong male archetypes, in other words, the very thing that's rotting academia from the inside out right now, and we've been watching this for a while, is a thing that.

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00:16:55.440 That exists and couldn't exist without you creating this idea of toxic masculinity, without you shaming men for being men pretty effectively for the better part of almost two decades.

00:17:11.740 I guess technically you could trace it back.

00:17:13.660 It starts before that.

00:17:14.740 There's been a long march.

00:17:15.960 It's been a long march.

00:17:17.040 And now this thing that you have escaped, it's leaving academia, it's entered the real world, and it's affecting average people at their jobs and at their dinner tables.

00:17:33.540 What exactly was the straw that broke the camel's back?

00:17:37.340 What were you seeing before you left?

00:17:39.080 Well, I had a kind of personal experience and then a general experience.

00:17:46.080 And I'll start with the, maybe I'll start with the personal.

00:17:50.300 So I was involved in a kind of educational startup that some buddies of mine in grad school started.

00:17:56.340 We were running tours in Greece and like retreats in Greece.

00:18:02.980 Also in Rome, I was more involved on the Greek angle.

00:18:05.160 But, you know, long story short, essentially there was, we had all these, you know, talented young students coming to us.

00:18:13.980 We had these talented grad students, but it was like a mixed gender environment. 1.00

00:18:19.540 And at some point, there was like this core, tiny and transient minority of like hardcore leftists that were on staff.

00:18:29.460 Like, it's just hard to do anything in academia without, you know, involving hardcore leftists.

00:18:36.780 And they started to resent the leadership of this startup and who were all men, white men, right?

00:18:49.140 Of course.

00:18:49.620 And is that the premise for their resentment?

00:18:51.500 Is this male aspect?

00:18:53.540 They said other things and they, they eventually got, you know, they kind of assembled this list of grievances that had, you know, the typical thing, you know, white supremacy, you know, patriarchy, misogyny.

00:19:10.020 But it was just like normal dudes trying to hold a business together, you know, and like, so, so, so, so untalented people would not get promoted.

00:19:21.560 Things like that.

00:19:22.580 There's a concept.

00:19:23.560 There's a concept.

00:19:24.120 And, and so, you know, it, it, it, it, it, but I think that those, those accusations were kind of, you know, an excuse that was really about this resentment of, of like kind of male friendship and like strong leadership.

00:19:40.980 Um, and, and, and also this kind of ideological programming that you get from basically K through 12 and a lot of even public schools.

00:19:51.800 Um, some of these kids were kind of cushy private school educated, you know, at the typical kind of white leftist profile, uh, in, in the, you know, Ivy league environment.

00:20:02.840 And, um, there, there was eventually like a, an open letter published, you know, decrying all of the crimes of the, the Institute.

00:20:10.840 And, um, we, we were involved in, with, um, a lot of the top classics programs in the U S and in the UK too.

00:20:18.500 And, you know, they were sending students to us in the summers.

00:20:20.820 It was great.

00:20:21.600 And everybody liked us.

00:20:23.180 And then all of a sudden it was like, Oh, these people are, we had no idea.

00:20:26.620 These people are horrible, horrible racists.

00:20:28.980 And, uh, there it goes supremacists.

00:20:31.440 Look, they're all white males. 0.92

00:20:33.080 There's not equal representation.

00:20:35.180 And, and so there, there was a cancellation and, um, I, I, I didn't suffer from it like it heavily, but one of my friends was the co-founder and he eventually got like forced out of this institution that he spent 10 years building.

00:20:49.240 Um, it was, it was, uh, it made me so mad.

00:20:52.500 Um, and this was kind of late teens.

00:20:55.760 So peak woke before the, the resistance started, you know?

00:21:00.360 And, um, so that was kind of my personal experience of seeing, like seeing the character of a lot of the most, you know, respected, prominent classicists, uh, experts in Greece and Rome.

00:21:13.040 And, you know, the gatekeepers, these Ivy league professors, you know, writing op-eds in the New York times, these kinds of people.

00:21:19.580 And I'm like, can I ask you, does people suck?

00:21:21.760 So does the group still exist?

00:21:24.340 So it does.

00:21:25.860 Yeah.

00:21:26.280 And, and, and, um, what's it, what's its form now?

00:21:28.280 It's called the Paideia Institute.

00:21:30.120 Um, it's, it's still worth, worth going to if, if they run, they run tours.

00:21:35.880 I think it's, it's, um, it hasn't, it's, it's struggled to kind of recover from this.

00:21:41.420 Um, but, uh, my, I, both, there were two co-founders.

00:21:45.300 One of them was a conservative Catholic and that was, you know, why he became the kind of Girardian scapegoat, 0.61

00:21:51.900 but the focal point of all the ire because he was kind of an unapologetic conservative.

00:21:56.260 And then the other guy was, was a sort of New York kind of center left liberal guy and, uh, who has since moved and pushed like, you know, as he says, I, I was a liberal that got mugged by reality.

00:22:10.220 And so he, um, he, he eventually is kind of pulling, pulling himself to the right.

00:22:16.180 I shouldn't say that too out loud because he tries to be kind of conciliatory, but, um, so it, it still exists, but it's, you know, it's, it, it doesn't have the cachet that I think it used to, um, hope my friend will forgive me for saying that.

00:22:30.120 I think he knows that it just did a lot of damage.

00:22:32.720 And now I think a lot of the professors after suddenly woke is like not cool or it's, you know, it's questionable.

00:22:38.880 A lot of people are like apologizing to him and, um, for, for how it all went.

00:22:43.780 Uh, so I don't know.

00:22:44.660 I, I just, the whole thing gave me this impression of like a lack of character among, among elite academics, you know, and this, this maybe ties into the general objection that I had, which was, I just felt like there was, there was no leadership in the discipline.

00:23:00.860 And, and, and, you know, classics is this, this used to be this grand, you know, super prestigious, like Greeks, Greek and Latin are really hard to learn.

00:23:08.840 There are high standards.

00:23:10.060 Not everybody can make the cut.

00:23:11.680 You got to work hard and, uh, very meritocratic, you know, um, and, and very culturally influenced, influential.

00:23:19.780 I mean, look at all the sword and sandal movies, you know, Spartacus, Ben-Hur, that kind of comes from this tradition of people knowing stuff about Greece and Rome and, uh, knowing what the great stories were.

00:23:30.000 Um, and, and like, we've, we've lost so much of that discipline has shrunk so much that, you know, budgets are getting cut.

00:23:37.580 Uh, people are getting fired.

00:23:39.580 Programs are getting terminated and all the people with these cushy jobs in the Ivy league schools are like, oh, you know what our real problem is, is, is, is, you know, colonialism, white supremacy.

00:23:51.400 And yeah, like you aren't, you're, you're, your discipline is not going to exist.

00:23:56.460 And you are basically, I felt like I was on a ship where the captains were, you know, um, drilling holes in the bottom of the boat and getting drunk and saying, well, it's good if the ship sinks because it's a bad ship.

00:24:08.860 Um, so I don't know, it, it seems futile to me.

00:24:12.700 Has there, uh, I mean, I, through your studies, has there been any kind of, uh, similar point in Roman history where people have done this to themselves on purpose?

00:24:21.920 You know, I, I don't know.

00:24:23.960 It's a good question.

00:24:24.880 I think that, um, I think that, that modern leftism is really a novel phenomenon that there's a, there's a, there's a right and left in Roman politics.

00:24:34.840 Um, but like the left wing of Roman politics is Julius Caesar.

00:24:39.700 It's like very manly, soldierly, uh, it's like populists.

00:24:44.940 It's like tough guys, tough, tough soldiers versus, you know, squishy aristocrats who are, you know, sitting on their laurels.

00:24:55.000 Um, and, and that's just not how it's, it's almost the opposite today.

00:24:59.900 Uh, so, you know, I'd have to think hard about, but there are, there are, you know, there's patterns of resentment for sure.

00:25:07.040 Um, in, uh, in, in, in Roman history and in Greek history, you see, you see the kind of like sort of left wing.

00:25:14.940 Resentment, the kind of hatred of greatness, uh, or the hatred of the powerful, uh, always throughout history.

00:25:21.580 This is like a universal phenomenon.

00:25:23.380 Envy is what the Greeks called it.

00:25:25.040 Thanos is this, this emotion that, that makes people want to just like not, not follow the great, but hate them because they're powerful and suspect that, oh, if they got up in that position, they must have bribed somebody.

00:25:37.840 They must, they must not deserve it.

00:25:40.240 It's just really toxic to a culture when, when you get those kinds of divides.

00:25:43.740 Yeah, because it's a reductionist point of view, right?

00:25:47.060 You didn't get there because of hard work and discipline and good ideas.

00:25:50.400 You got there because you are a member of an exclusive white male patriarchy that only promotes from within.

00:25:58.340 And if you're outside of the club, then you can't get in.

00:26:00.980 And what that does is it diminishes any great achievement.

00:26:03.800 And then when you look back in history and you see anything that resembles that, then all of the history that built the very country that allows you all the things that you have was built off of exclusivity to a white patriarchy group, right?

00:26:17.100 And so it has no merit, despite how much the fruits of, of the tree that it is have, have, you know, been good.

00:26:26.760 None of it has any merit and all of it should be torn down.

00:26:29.920 And, but that's the thing too, is, you know, flawed argument, but it gets even more flawed when they go and what should it be replaced with?

00:26:39.340 And there is no real idea about what it should be replaced with.

00:26:42.660 The idea is kind of just like diversity.

00:26:44.720 I think there's an idea. They have a clear idea of what they want to replace with.

00:26:48.540 They just won't necessarily say it out loud because I don't think they have the idea.

00:26:52.580 Like these, these average, the people like, let's say, you know, I've been arguing on Facebook for a couple of days with people.

00:26:57.100 They have no idea.

00:26:58.200 The rank and file have no idea, but the thought leaders do.

00:27:01.060 Yes.

00:27:01.340 They're like the people that are the professors within the college understand exactly what they want.

00:27:07.320 I don't know if they're so explicit with the general population.

00:27:10.600 They might be with their, their students.

00:27:12.760 Yeah. Their cohorts, right. In private sessions when they're speaking about where, you know, they ultimately want this to go and they'll say it in jest.

00:27:20.240 And we're seeing a lot of that now it's manifesting as actual violence on the world stage.

00:27:24.180 I mean, it's, it's manifesting as, uh, I think it's, I think what a lot of them have said and what they've promoted has manifested as a celebration of what happened last week.

00:27:34.460 Yeah.

00:27:34.920 You'll see people kind of like laughing, smiling. And it's like, oh, which is the normal talking about this for a while.

00:27:39.560 It's the exact thing that you would expect to get from something that, that has its roots in just disdain.

00:27:45.340 Well, it's, if you have disdain for the white male patriarchy, then obviously you will celebrate when the thing that you disdain is murdered in, in grotesque fashion on the world stage.

00:27:55.560 Would you say that that's the embodiment of Achilles, but on this like weird perverse left-wing side, because they are.

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00:28:26.900 Seeking glory through, it's almost like war, whereas now the people on the right are still trying to embody, I guess, the Odysseus side where they're, let's engage in debate.

00:28:40.460 Let's have this conversation. How can we organize a structured society?

00:28:44.460 And I'm struggling right now to see, like, I'm struggling to determine which way is the right way or does one lead to another?

00:28:52.540 Yeah, no, I do think that a lot of the left-wing leaders now kind of fantasize about, you know, murals of them painted on brick walls, like Che Guevara-esque, you know, like, man of the people, yes.

00:29:06.860 Part of the resistance.

00:29:08.240 Civil rights hero, yes.

00:29:10.840 But I don't know. I kind of go with Dave on this. I think that there is a real lack of vision fundamentally. And there's just not a hopeful future. You see kind of center-left people saying, ah, we need to get back to abundance.

00:29:28.220 And, you know, there's this recent book about this. And I don't know. I don't think that they're really willing to lean into building a future enough to have that vision.

00:29:42.220 Because to build any ambitious vision, you need stuff like hierarchy and merits and structure and patriarchy, what they would call patriarchy.

00:29:52.220 So, yeah, I think that what, and one of the other things that they've done to kind of hamstring any attempt at building a better society is to make people kind of allergic to history.

00:30:08.700 Like, that's the practical outcome of this, as you put it. It's logically incoherent, the idea that the entire foundations of society are built on this evil, you know, racist patriarchy.

00:30:24.380 Therefore, there's no reason to look at it and learn from it because all you're learning from is monsters.

00:30:29.020 Exactly. And that's precisely the thing that you need to do to build an ambitious future.

00:30:35.780 You need to study the past, not just study it for lessons, but, like, to get inspired by it.

00:30:40.720 This is the kind of paradox of studying history and what I would call the classical spirit.

00:30:47.860 You know, you look back into the past and you find these examples of men whose achievements still echo hundreds of years later.

00:30:55.320 You're like, all right, how can we do things that will echo hundreds of years later?

00:30:58.280 Well, you don't really get that kind of expanded imagination if, like, year one is 1967.

00:31:07.860 You know, it's just really fascinating because it actually shows itself in the physical, in our architecture.

00:31:14.100 We're like, we actually can't build anything.

00:31:16.740 Yeah, our McDonald's, which is now just a gray cube with, you know, some wood paneling.

00:31:21.500 It's really distinctive, at least.

00:31:22.960 And I would love to talk about, you know, the architectural implications because I think that that's huge.

00:31:29.040 I think there's something to the psyche when you look around and you see these beautiful, inspirational things and you want to achieve for higher.

00:31:35.280 But I also want to say that it's fascinating to me that we have made a relatively cushy society.

00:31:41.240 And we've now allowed people to have such a disdain for the white male patriarchy to the extent that they're willing to remove it, not just statues, not just history, but also by way of violence.

00:31:56.360 But these same people, because of the comforts of society, have zero relationship with violence.

00:32:03.740 You're talking about leaders and warriors, and we are being cast aside by the pudgy and the disgusting.

00:32:15.140 I mean, honestly, that's what it really is in so many fashions.

00:32:18.640 It is morbidly obese individuals who have never been in close proximity to violence, wishing violence upon others and are even willing to engage in it.

00:32:29.860 And I think that is what happens when you don't have a healthy relationship with violence, when you don't really know what it is, when your violence comes from the media, when you see it in your movies, when you see it in your shows,

00:32:41.620 when the 90-pound blonde white chick does a backflip and kicks the crap out of a dude in an action film and you go, that doesn't even make sense, that can't happen, it actually lulls, it hypnotizes these morons into a false understanding of the realities of violence. 0.79

00:32:59.560 And so they're willing to advocate for it, they're willing to engage in it, you know, to some degree, and I guess there's just not been very many rude awakenings.

00:33:09.460 It's just very bizarre to me to watch this phenomenon.

00:33:11.960 I've been a martial artist for a long time, and as somebody who has an intimate relationship with violence, I don't engage in it in real life, because the implications are pretty well understood.

00:33:24.860 It's horrific.

00:33:25.540 It's horrific, exactly.

00:33:26.880 It's actually terrible when you watch somebody's head bounce off the concrete and they start seizing and you go, oh no, a human life is in jeopardy now, but these people don't have that.

00:33:37.400 And they are glorifying it, they're calling for it, and when it happens, they celebrate it.

00:33:41.720 Yeah, it's, I think that's a good way to frame it, and to me, as horrific as the events of the last week have been with the assassination, which affected me very deeply.

00:33:54.780 You know, the one bright light on this, besides the fact that I feel this is galvanizing a lot of good people, serious people, and making a lot of people kind of center left say, what the hell, what party am I, who are these people?

00:34:14.960 You know, that the left wing right now, they've totally lost the kind of spirited, strong young men, and example after example in history shows, I mean, even in the 1960s, the spirited, kind of manly young men are the revolutionary element.

00:34:39.120 Like, if you want to actually achieve some kind of dramatic change and, like, have a fighting chance at some kind of inner turmoil, you have to have those people.

00:34:49.700 And that's precisely the people that the left have been pushing away for years, and there's just not a lot of, like, vigor.

00:34:57.420 It's kind of a Potemkin village, it's like a paper tiger now. 1.00

00:35:01.000 And so, you know, I think that we're still going to see these probably, sadly, more kind of random acts of, you know, leftist-inspired violence.

00:35:10.840 And I hope this is the last time, but it's like a dying animal clawing at, lashing out without a lot of, like, real effectiveness.

00:35:23.760 I want to say this when it's, oh, go ahead, go ahead.

00:35:27.060 When the animal's at its most dangerous, it's like it's in a corner.

00:35:29.940 The idea of the transgender idea, I mean, this is also, if you really want to.

00:35:35.120 Oh, now we're going to have to get off of YouTube.

00:35:36.780 Well, yeah, let's get off of YouTube.

00:35:37.900 Yeah, and before we do, though, I do want to say on that topic, it's very strange to me that they don't have the wherewithal to realize that the trained individuals,

00:35:48.020 the armed individuals, and the actual people who are capable of physical combat almost exclusively exist on the right.

00:35:56.420 Well, there was a great meme going around of, like, it's like this really, it's like soyjack face, but his face, like, resembles a demon.

00:36:05.780 Yeah.

00:36:06.060 And then on the other side, it's, you know, like, kind of like the gayer version of this soyjack.

00:36:12.000 And in the demon side, it says this is the right-wing version of, like, rebellion.

00:36:16.840 And it's like, I'm going to debate you and destroy your, like, every, like, I'm going to destroy your entire foundation.

00:36:22.180 And then the other kind of, like, gayer looking soyjack has a gun and it says, like, I'm going to shoot you. 0.99

00:36:27.440 Yeah.

00:36:28.580 There's a difference here.

00:36:30.160 And I'm a little bit worried that the right, if they decide to cross that Rubicon of.

00:36:37.880 Of violence.

00:36:38.880 Of actual violence.

00:36:40.140 Like, that can get nasty.

00:36:42.160 And also, do they have to?

00:36:44.020 Because the battle is almost already won.

00:36:45.880 And that's the reason why.

00:36:47.420 I think it's, it's, it's Masvidal Askren.

00:36:52.460 You know, it kicks off and it's a knee to the forehead and the whole thing's over instantly.

00:36:56.960 I think that's what they would find out.

00:36:58.100 Anyway, before we do this, guys, if you want to continue watching this, patreon.com forward slash Nephilim Death Squad is where we're going.

00:37:05.000 Otherwise, just give it about a week and it'll release for free on, you know, YouTube, etc.

00:37:11.040 Yeah, I mean, what do you, what do you think about that, Alex, this idea that these people are, are poking and prodding the side that actually is, if there were any remnants of strong leaders and masculine men, they exist on the right.

00:37:29.320 Yeah, I think that the, the, the rights, there's a post by Curtis Yarvin on this recently that the, you have distinguished being between violence and force.

00:37:42.820 And the left's version of force is kind of, you know, grassroots political violence.

00:37:50.740 The rights version of force is law and order.

00:37:53.400 And, uh, I think that, that the response to, to Kirk has kind of shown like, you know, contrast the Floyd riots in, in 2020, you know, that we're, we're not seeing massive eruptions of, of violent mobs, but, um, but like calls for action.

00:38:11.340 I mean, you can only call for action without seeing results for so long before people start to get like, oh, nothing's going on.

00:38:19.120 We got to do something, but I, I don't know.

00:38:20.380 I think that, that, that that's the response that people generally want on the right, like some kind of legitimate, maybe not military cracking, but like a legal reckoning, you know?

00:38:33.280 Um, and so I, that's, it's kind of a difference in mindset, you know?

00:38:40.480 Let me ask you this.

00:38:41.320 We want order reestablished.

00:38:43.160 That's a, that this is going to be on the responsibility of the Trump administration to do something.

00:38:48.060 And not necessarily physically drastic, like you're saying, but there has to be a response because you're, you're right.

00:38:54.420 These people, they crave order.

00:38:56.680 Like this is, I think something that Jordan Peterson really nails the order, the distinction between order and chaos and the right wing, the masculine, the true masculine is order.

00:39:07.000 It's that firm hand of like, when you grab your child and you're like, we're not doing that versus what I think the feminine thinks the masculine response should be.

00:39:16.460 You see this a lot with, uh, lesbians who have like the highest violence rate against each other or women who are embodying this masculine tone to teachers, you know, people like that, where they'll, they'll overdo it. 0.76

00:39:28.620 And they'll, they'll cross that line into what they think is supposed to be masculine.

00:39:32.820 And it just turns out to be nasty violence.

00:39:35.040 Like, like it's like a mass coming off, like a demon underneath.

00:39:38.240 That's not what masculinity is.

00:39:39.820 But yeah, there has to be a strong response from the Trump administration, which they have not had as of yet, but it's still, it'd been a couple of days.

00:39:46.660 You have to satiate your side to keep them calm because if not, I don't know where this is going to go.

00:39:51.800 It can get real nasty.

00:39:52.660 Well, this is a conspiracy show.

00:39:55.760 And so I, you know, you're talking about, uh, order and, uh, order and, and chaos.

00:40:00.640 What about the idea of order out of chaos, right?

00:40:03.300 Um, you have historical precedent, um, you know, the Bolsheviks creating what, what looked like grassroots revolutions, uh, you know, to kind of disrupt the, the cultural fabric of a place.

00:40:15.520 Uh, I wonder if there are examples within, uh, Rome that you could point to, but what do you think about the idea that this is a, a subverted, um, sort of, uh, uh, cultural manipulation to pit one wing against the other so that out of the chaos order could be birthed.

00:40:35.900 Uh, that, that is a big fear of mine.

00:40:38.160 Um, and I, I wonder if that, that has shown itself in any of your research.

00:40:42.600 Yeah, that's fascinating.

00:40:43.860 Well, well, I, I have no idea.

00:40:46.100 Uh, I mean, I, uh, I, I, I try to talk to smart people, um, and, and figure out what's going on today, but I can, I can say about, about Rome that one of the distinctive features of the late Republic, which is a period that I am focusing on a lot in my, in my show is, um, that you can kind of hire a mob to, uh, to, to do something.

00:41:07.860 You, you, you, you can hire a gang of thugs, but you can also kind of like pay a mob to, to show up and, and be, you know, the people, you know, clamoring against whatever and, and make it kind of seem grassroots without it.

00:41:23.060 When it, when it's actually on the kind of payroll of some, some oligarch and, uh, you know, great example of this is the.

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00:41:58.640 Um, the, well, the, all the late Republic, this is happening in the, in the kind of final years of, um, of the breakdown of the, the transition from Republic to Empire.

00:42:08.660 Um, we'll go into it a little bit, but in particular, the, the Catalinarian conspiracy is a really interesting kind of place to zoom in on some of the,

00:42:18.460 how these, um, how these patterns play out.

00:42:23.540 So for, for just a little bit of background and, uh, kind of in a nutshell, what we're talking about, Rome is a collective government, right?

00:42:32.300 They have consuls and praetors, elected officers.

00:42:35.100 They have a people's assembly.

00:42:36.740 They have a kind of aristocratic council, the Senate, and, um, no one man runs the show.

00:42:44.840 But after, um, kind of debate when the actual point happens as a 46 BC is a 31 BC, but basically Julius Caesar gets himself involved in this huge civil war, um, as a general of Rome, as, as one among many leaders of Rome.

00:43:04.300 And by the end of it, he's kind of the, the most, he's by far the most powerful man in Rome, not clear that he wanted to establish a monarchy, but he might've been thinking that that was the solution to this kind of years of turmoil.

00:43:16.800 And that's the 40s BC.

00:43:19.220 And then it's, it's, he gets assassinated, of course, famously.

00:43:22.160 And then his son, uh, son and adopted son, Octavian Augustus becomes the first emperor, um, by fighting some more civil wars.

00:43:30.760 And that's this huge transition from, you know, this kind of collective government that the American founders really looked to for how we should establish our own constitution to this monarchy.

00:43:43.060 That is what Jesus was born under, right?

00:43:46.080 Like the, the emperor, you know, revered as a God and Christian martyrs saying, no, I will not burn incense before the emperor.

00:43:53.240 He's just a man.

00:43:54.360 And when they, you know, get thrown to the lions, that, that world was very different from Caesar's world.

00:44:00.180 And so, um, one of the things that you have in the late Republic is this massive wealth inequality and, uh, you know, the, the, the top citizens of the oligarchy are getting huge troves of treasure from foreign wars.

00:44:19.880 They're getting all kinds of, um, you know, political gifts given to them to, to plead the case of so-and-so provincial, um, they have all these clientele, just sweeping, um, sources of like political influence and revenue all across this huge, really Mediterranean wide empire.

00:44:38.780 And then the poor people of Rome or the average people even are not getting a share of the cut, even like the kind of upper classes, but not high, like upper middle, let's say upper middle class versus the top tier.

00:44:53.280 There's a massive chasm in, in power and influence.

00:44:57.040 And so there's a lot of discontent about this inequality.

00:44:59.720 And, um, and, um, and this, this man, Catiline, uh, famously tried to stage a kind of coup, a revolution.

00:45:08.680 It's happened in 63 BC and, um, it failed.

00:45:14.660 It got caught and, uh, you know, Catiline ends up dying in battle.

00:45:20.880 But very interestingly, the, the people that were thought to be behind Catiline's revolts.

00:45:30.160 So Catiline is this indebted aristocrat. 0.75

00:45:33.420 He's sort of down on his luck, doesn't have a lot of money or influence.

00:45:37.780 Um, but there, so there were powerful backers behind him who did have the money and influence.

00:45:42.340 One of them is Marcus Crassus, the richest man in Rome.

00:45:45.980 And another one is at, at least some people thought Julius Caesar himself, a young Julius Caesar.

00:45:52.880 He's sort of mid thirties at this point, uh, kind of hasn't made his rise yet.

00:45:57.100 Hasn't fought any of his great wars, but you know, people have got their eye on him.

00:46:00.560 He's, he's, he's on his way.

00:46:01.940 And people thought that Caesar and Crassus were kind of behind Catiline.

00:46:05.660 So if Catiline had won his revolution or, or, you know, successfully orchestrated his coup,

00:46:11.520 who they, they might have a, you know, Crassus and Caesar would be running the show with Catiline

00:46:17.400 as their puppet, maybe.

00:46:18.940 Um, so it's this fascinating, um, example of, um, you know, somebody trying, seeing the discontent

00:46:25.840 and the resentment and money, much of it was justified to, uh, worth saying and trying to

00:46:31.480 kind of have a bloody revolution and then it getting suppressed by the forces of law and

00:46:36.460 order.

00:46:36.800 Um, and, and you could even question whether the forces of law and order were the good guys

00:46:41.120 in that situation.

00:46:42.440 Um, but, um, you know, it, it was a powder keg and, uh, they managed to kind of put a lid

00:46:48.040 on it in, in 63, but, um, but it's sort of those same forces of resentment, inequality,

00:46:56.740 indebtedness that allow the final kind of turn 15 years later to a proper civil war that Caesar

00:47:04.220 is, uh, is, uh, is on the populist side of, and, uh, you know, provokes this transition

00:47:09.680 from Republic to empire.

00:47:12.000 It has a, it has slight January six vibes.

00:47:15.000 I mean, it does really mimic, uh, the economic divide, you know, to not sound like a leftist,

00:47:20.940 it's like, you really got to like walk a line, but there is a huge economic divide between

00:47:25.840 the upper 1% of people who are taking money, who are gaining profits from like Lockheed Martin,

00:47:31.020 and they're selling weapons to, you know, different countries, just profiting off of war as our

00:47:36.440 young men go off and die for these wars, come back with nothing. 0.92

00:47:40.640 And you look at the left and I'm like, to be completely honest, I'm a little bit sympathetic

00:47:45.320 with their arguments because yeah, a lot of these people, they are nihilistic because they

00:47:51.760 don't have a family.

00:47:52.760 They never will.

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00:48:27.960 And they'll never have, I mean, everything is stacked against them and I get it.

00:48:32.040 So I'm saying they have nothing to conserve.

00:48:34.080 Yeah.

00:48:34.300 It's like, why would I, I understand that, but it's, it's also a trap that you're falling

00:48:38.280 into.

00:48:38.580 Like they've been lied to by these people.

00:48:40.500 Sam Hyde nailed it this morning with his video where he saw a little bit of that.

00:48:43.840 Yeah.

00:48:44.060 He's like, let's catch that.

00:48:46.000 Oh yeah.

00:48:46.360 Go check it out.

00:48:47.060 It's intense, man.

00:48:47.980 But you'd have a hard time arguing against it.

00:48:50.080 Yeah.

00:48:50.300 He, uh, he basically says that, you know, these people you've given up, you've been

00:48:54.980 lied to and you've given up your, your, uh, right to have children, to have this play.

00:49:00.540 And it's, you know, there's a lot of stuff working against you, but if you've just outright

00:49:03.940 admitted this and you've spoken it out loud and you've given up the fact that you can do

00:49:07.460 that, then, then it's over.

00:49:08.740 Yeah.

00:49:08.960 So I don't, I just don't know where you go.

00:49:11.520 But that's like my, the, the way my mind always goes is like, who is, who's benefiting off

00:49:16.180 of this?

00:49:16.860 Uh, when you go back to even the black lives matter protests, which this feels like a,

00:49:21.540 another question I have, like this guy, Crassus, you're saying he's like one of these upper

00:49:26.380 tier people.

00:49:27.540 What is his motive?

00:49:28.780 It sounds a lot like a George Soros kind of thing.

00:49:31.040 That's what I, yeah, that's exactly where I was going.

00:49:33.120 Yeah.

00:49:33.460 Yeah.

00:49:34.180 Yeah.

00:49:34.360 Crassus is sort of a bit like the Soros of, of Rome.

00:49:38.980 I mean, cause he's, so he's from a good family.

00:49:42.340 Um, but, uh, he not like a tip top family and there was an earlier civil war.

00:49:48.900 I mean, so many civil wars in the late Republic in, in the eighties BC.

00:49:52.480 So like 20 years before this incident, there were Crassus is a young man and he manages to

00:49:58.240 basically make a fortune buying and selling confiscated estates of, uh, of enemies of

00:50:04.340 the state, you know, he's like house flipping, but you know, HGTV back in the day.

00:50:10.700 No, it sounds like Soros began his, by, by selling out his own people.

00:50:16.180 That's it.

00:50:16.660 Okay.

00:50:17.200 Continue.

00:50:17.740 I'm sorry.

00:50:18.060 So, so he builds this fortune and he gets in a kind of arguably disrespect, disrespectful

00:50:23.820 way.

00:50:25.180 And, um, and, and he does it cause he's aligned with this, uh, dictator Sulla.

00:50:30.860 But basically what Crassus does is he builds, um, he builds this fortune, not to just be

00:50:38.100 a rich guy, but, but to use it to build a power network.

00:50:41.700 And what he does is he, he lends money at very favorable rates to a lot of needy men

00:50:49.340 who are not of the kind of top tier.

00:50:51.560 He's like going after the B plus players, maybe these, these kind of outsiders, kind

00:50:57.720 of upper middle class types, new men in the Senate.

00:51:00.780 And, um, he says, you know, Crassus is your man.

00:51:04.200 I can, I can help you kind of make your career.

00:51:06.580 I've got, I've got a political machine.

00:51:08.620 We can get your son, a quest or ship, you know, you're going to be a, a made man if you,

00:51:14.280 if you go with Crassus.

00:51:15.080 And so he has this huge swath of kind of like no name politicians, uh, senators, but

00:51:22.780 whose votes still count in the Senate, you know, so he can really move a huge block of

00:51:28.060 kind of backbenchers in the Senate.

00:51:30.320 And, um, and he knows everything that's going on in the city at all times because he's got

00:51:34.820 this incredible network of people that he's, that owe him money.

00:51:38.240 And he's like, Oh no, you don't need to pay me back.

00:51:40.640 There's get, get to it next month.

00:51:42.500 It's all right.

00:51:43.160 You know, I got you.

00:51:44.140 And so that's how he kind of keeps the, keeps the chains on them.

00:51:48.920 Um, and, and, uh, you know, eventually he is, um, sounds like usury.

00:51:55.040 It does.

00:51:55.700 What was his ethnicity?

00:51:56.680 I'm just, nevermind.

00:51:59.860 This is a Christian.

00:52:00.640 A hundred percent Italian, a hundred percent Italian. 0.55

00:52:04.320 But, um, well, the thing is like, you know, usury in Rome is, is, um, is charging too much

00:52:10.540 interest.

00:52:11.100 Uh, but, but money lending was seen as, as disreputable.

00:52:16.880 Importantly, it was not something that you were supposed to engage in as, as a Senator.

00:52:21.440 You're actually formally barred from it.

00:52:23.680 So, you know, he just basically, I don't know, he sets up a pot of money somewhere else

00:52:28.660 and he has somebody else do the actual lending, sign their actual name on the contract.

00:52:32.240 And there's ways to get around this stuff.

00:52:33.660 So he's, he's just kind of like shadowy puppet master.

00:52:37.340 And, um, and one of the people that he, uh, promotes in his career is Julius Caesar.

00:52:44.040 You know, he, he is a huge, huge financier of Caesar's very expensive career.

00:52:50.880 You know, Caesar's always throwing these lavish games to get popularity.

00:52:54.360 He's going off and fighting wars that require a lot of funds, you know, hire soldiers.

00:53:00.020 And, um, and, and Crassus is, is basically when Caesar, Caesar's playbook is, he's a respectable

00:53:07.580 noble, kind of a bit like a, I mean, you might say he's a bit like a Donald Trump and that

00:53:12.460 he's, he's from the kind of, you know, in the tabloid magazine classes of America, at

00:53:18.800 least, and, um, but he kind of sets himself against that establishment at some point.

00:53:24.600 He kind of turns on them.

00:53:26.160 And this is one of the reasons why they hate him so much, right?

00:53:29.140 Because he was one of them and he kind of betrayed the, the consensus and goes against

00:53:35.520 them.

00:53:36.320 And so essentially Crassus, when Caesar's doing that playbook, Crassus was doing the same

00:53:41.200 thing.

00:53:41.500 And that's, that's why he, he, um, built his political network.

00:53:46.040 So he could kind of challenge the establishment aristocracy.

00:53:50.300 I think that probably Caesar had better motives than Crassus, but, uh, Crassus was really out

00:53:55.400 for power.

00:53:55.980 Um, and, and eventually it's Crassus, Caesar and Pompey that formed this triumvirate in

00:54:03.420 the year 59 to kind of master the state and to kind of, even though it's a Republican name,

00:54:09.760 it's really like the rule of three men running the show in Rome.

00:54:13.440 Um, so, you know, I forget where, what, what the kind of topic that we were discussing around

00:54:22.740 Crassus was, but essentially he's, he's, he's going to be playing the populist card on some

00:54:27.620 level for, for all of his career.

00:54:29.380 You know, Crassus is a guy that can hire, hire mobs to, uh, to intimidate other politicians.

00:54:35.700 He's, he's famous for getting criminals acquitted, uh, who definitely had it coming, uh, by bribing

00:54:44.400 the jury.

00:54:45.480 That's typically how you do that sort of thing.

00:54:47.420 You could bribe witnesses, uh, but you know, there's always ways to kind of get people off

00:54:51.960 of, uh, serious political charges.

00:54:54.340 So, you know, the, the, the influence of money in politics is this very age old question.

00:55:01.080 And, and, uh, Crassus is one of the like supreme examples of that.

00:55:04.900 It, it sounds like the, the beginnings of, uh, what was that called?

00:55:08.840 Uh, operation Gladio, uh, project Gladio, where it's like, there's money inserted.

00:55:14.900 There are mobs that are kind of like sicked on the public in order to create a reaction

00:55:19.420 for what they desire afterward.

00:55:20.940 Is that, uh, would you draw that comparison as well?

00:55:23.620 Yeah, well, there, there is, I'm trying to think of a specific example with Crassus, like

00:55:29.340 one of the things that he, he, so he, he supports this mobster at some point, um, who, he, who

00:55:37.580 owed him a favor because Crassus got him acquitted.

00:55:39.860 The guy was basically going to be executed and, uh, Crassus paid off the jurors and, and

00:55:45.220 this guy, you know, just starts running, running the streets with his, with his thugs.

00:55:52.420 And, uh, and when, when he gets attacked by some of the more respectable politicians,

00:55:57.320 you know, he'll, um, he'll say that, oh, look, the aristocrats are trying to, uh, trying 0.92

00:56:05.420 to deprive the, the people of their desserts.

00:56:08.300 You know, I, any, this, this mobster Clodius is his name gets, eventually gets himself elected

00:56:13.740 to office, if you can believe that.

00:56:15.280 And he, uh, he passes a law to have a free grain dole to all of the Roman citizens. 0.99

00:56:21.680 It's basically like welfare.

00:56:23.500 He, he passes one of the early welfare laws.

00:56:26.700 There's so much money.

00:56:27.660 There's so many poor people in Rome.

00:56:29.540 Um, and, and whenever politicians attack this, you know, he can get, he can get a group of

00:56:34.840 people to, um, to pelt them with fruit as they're walking out of the Senate and make

00:56:41.520 them seem like, you know, fat cats when really they're just trying to kind of hold the order

00:56:46.020 together.

00:56:47.020 Uh, so there's all kinds of ways to game the system like that.

00:56:50.480 Sounds very familiar.

00:56:51.920 Appealing to, uh, the disenfranchised with, you know, kind of freebies, uh, and then mischaracterizing

00:56:59.760 anybody who should stand up against those systems.

00:57:02.180 While being funded by the guy who is part of this.

00:57:04.920 Yeah, it sounds very familiar.

00:57:07.860 Well, I mean, you're highlighting the importance of understanding history right now, which just

00:57:12.340 brings us back to the original conversation about removing, uh, any interest in learning

00:57:18.580 about history because history was built by strong men who are toxic pieces of shit.

00:57:25.060 One of the things I think is interesting is how, how left and right are different in various

00:57:33.060 periods of history, you know, like in the French revolution, the, um, you know, the, the revolutionaries

00:57:40.020 were all like Rome obsessed Cicero nuts.

00:57:45.900 They're all trying to be these great kind of Republican figures standing against the monarchy.

00:57:51.760 Uh, and, uh, there's this deep, deep interest in, in history and in like Plutarch's biographies

00:57:58.540 in particular, um, among the, you know, Robespierre and Danton, all these guys are like fancying

00:58:05.820 themselves great men of the past, you know, even though they're, they're like the left,

00:58:09.480 sometimes the hard left in, um, in France.

00:58:12.920 And so it, I think that we're, we're really at this new stage of leftism where erasure, erasure

00:58:20.840 of history.

00:58:21.840 I think you have to have Karl Marx for that to happen to this, this like conspiracy that

00:58:27.620 all of human history has been about.

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00:58:55.620 You know, promoting the interests of the, of the fat cat capitalists.

00:59:01.620 Yes.

00:59:02.620 That, that, you know, the cultural Marxist wave that comes later in the thirties with

00:59:07.620 the Frankfurt school, this idea that, uh, you know, the patriarchy, the colonial patriarchy

00:59:14.620 is, is kind of been telling the narrative for all of these years.

00:59:18.620 And they're trying to brainwash you.

00:59:21.620 That doesn't really, that's not really there.

00:59:23.620 Even in the French revolution, maybe the seeds of it are there.

00:59:26.620 It's certainly not there in the American revolution, which you can also argue is a kind of left-wing

00:59:31.620 energy.

00:59:32.620 So, yeah, I think that a lot of times people try to pick sides in history.

00:59:39.620 And this is one of the great things about is it, it's difficult to pick sides.

00:59:42.620 You have to think about the issue more objectively.

00:59:44.620 Like, uh, what, what is, what is left, right, middle really mean?

00:59:47.620 What is populist versus, you know, centralized or aristocrat really mean?

00:59:52.620 Um, so yeah, I think we're in a different situation today.

00:59:57.620 Yeah.

00:59:58.620 The titles change, the motives change, but the direction doesn't.

01:00:02.620 It seems like, uh, uh, the, the period of Rome that we were describing was a democracy

01:00:07.620 that's sort of corrupt falling apart.

01:00:10.620 And then it turns into a monarchy.

01:00:12.620 Um, I've, I've been actually like, uh, you know, a couple of years ago thinking about

01:00:17.620 and been sympathetic to the idea of monarchy because I'm like, it just seems better.

01:00:21.620 It seems like it makes more sense because there's one guy and when he messes up, you can cut

01:00:26.620 his head off.

01:00:27.620 But there's also one guy at the top.

01:00:29.620 And then when he, when he declares himself, God, this gets very messy too.

01:00:33.620 Whereas democracy, what we have now, it's a God that has already failed.

01:00:37.620 I mean, it's just falling apart on the edges everywhere.

01:00:39.620 People still defending.

01:00:40.620 And I'm just kind of like, but we can't really, we're not going to vote our way out of this.

01:00:44.620 We've, they've cornered the system of, uh, people's minds and forget about, I'm wearing

01:00:49.620 a shirt right now that says MK ultra dolphins.

01:00:51.620 It's about John C Lillian.

01:00:53.620 If you want to get into conspiracy and MK ultra and pharmaceuticals and how people's, you

01:00:58.620 know, just like people are out of their minds, literally out of their minds.

01:01:01.620 We cannot meaningfully have a democracy under these conditions.

01:01:05.620 And well, that's, you know, not only the, the things that are in the food, if you want

01:01:10.620 to get super conspiratorial or the frequencies, but just the propaganda machine, the media in

01:01:15.620 just feeding people at scale, we're probably the most sedated populace in the history of

01:01:20.620 the world.

01:01:21.620 And we are plugged in to the media like no other, uh, generation before us.

01:01:26.620 And we're just being fed propaganda, propaganda, propaganda, especially I say that this is,

01:01:31.620 um, aimed predominantly at women and children, but more predominantly at women.

01:01:36.620 And if you, uh, Oh, they're the consumer market, they're doing like 80% of the purchases and

01:01:41.620 making all these financial decisions.

01:01:42.620 So that's who you're going to target.

01:01:44.620 Then the next thing you do is, uh, appeal to their better nature, which is like, Oh,

01:01:48.620 don't you, don't you want things to be nice?

01:01:50.620 And that's that weaponized empathy thing.

01:01:53.620 I was talking about on Facebook where they've taken things like empathy and tolerance and

01:01:57.620 they've weaponized us or weaponized them against us.

01:02:00.620 And it's like, you are being made to be empathetic and tolerant to things that are corrosive to

01:02:05.620 not only, you know, your wellbeing, but your, your children's wellbeing.

01:02:09.620 And so, yeah, a lot of this enters by way of women's media. 1.00

01:02:12.620 I will say this very often.

01:02:14.620 If you, if you, uh, see anything, you know, uh, a show that's aimed at women, that's where 0.99

01:02:20.620 you will get all your trans characters.

01:02:22.620 That's what you're going to get your concepts like, uh, uh, polyamory, right?

01:02:27.620 Like this idea of having like multiple, uh, suitors or, or whatever.

01:02:31.620 Uh, this is where you're going to get the idea of, of, uh, you know, gay parents or, or any

01:02:36.620 of these things.

01:02:37.620 Uh, they don't exist in media for men.

01:02:42.620 Right.

01:02:43.620 And if they do, it's usually shouted about, you know, they'll, they'll inject it in like

01:02:48.620 somebody's, you know, a superhero movie, a Marvel film.

01:02:51.620 And, and mostly the, the audience that that's aimed at are, are, you know, white men, uh,

01:02:57.620 30 to 50, you know, generally speaking, and they will get pretty upset if you put that

01:03:02.620 in their, in their movies.

01:03:03.620 And then that movie will, will ship the bed.

01:03:05.620 Yeah.

01:03:06.620 We've gotten to the point where they're like, well, now they're like, they're just kind

01:03:08.620 of like, ah, just let me, okay.

01:03:10.620 Like if I agree, we'll, can we, can we get back to the fun?

01:03:13.620 Yeah.

01:03:14.620 Can we get back to the fun?

01:03:15.620 Um, the segment brought to you by the message.

01:03:18.620 Yeah, exactly.

01:03:19.620 You know, but I did see, and I wonder if you saw this, Alex, there was like a resurgence.

01:03:24.620 There was a blip on the radar.

01:03:26.620 It was in the past decade.

01:03:28.620 Stoicism became very popular.

01:03:32.620 Right.

01:03:33.620 And I think it's since gone away, but like I have somewhere in my library of books that

01:03:38.620 I rarely ever look at.

01:03:40.620 Um, you know, I don't know if it's like musings by Marcus Aurelius.

01:03:44.620 Like there are these, uh, there was this resurgence, a love for stoicism, this desire

01:03:51.620 to implement it.

01:03:53.620 And I think it was, um, maybe the infancy of people starting to get upset about what

01:04:00.620 they were seeing and correctly identifying.

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01:04:32.620 You know, some sort of solution, which was strong male figures.

01:04:36.620 But then it went away.

01:04:37.620 And I don't know why it went away.

01:04:39.620 It seems like you would have, that ball would have kept going.

01:04:41.620 Maybe I'm wrong.

01:04:42.620 Did you see that, Alex?

01:04:43.620 Did you see this?

01:04:44.620 It's, it was within the past 10 years, this, this love for stoicism, uh, came.

01:04:48.620 Stoicism.

01:04:49.620 Stoicism.

01:04:50.620 I've mispronounced it 17 times on this show.

01:04:52.620 I don't want to interrupt you.

01:04:53.620 You could have done it sooner.

01:04:54.620 No.

01:04:55.620 I would have appreciated it.

01:04:56.620 It's unbelievable.

01:04:57.620 Stoicism.

01:04:58.620 Tell me about it.

01:04:59.620 I see, I see Alex just sweating.

01:05:00.620 He's just twitching every time I say it.

01:05:02.620 Unbelievable, man.

01:05:03.620 Unbelievable.

01:05:04.620 Uh, yeah.

01:05:06.620 So, uh, however you pronounce it, you know, I think.

01:05:11.620 No, please.

01:05:12.620 The right way is how you pronounce it.

01:05:14.620 Stoicism.

01:05:15.620 Stoichiometry is, no.

01:05:18.620 So this, I think there's a good trend.

01:05:21.620 Well, it was, and I think it was for exactly the reasons you said.

01:05:26.620 Uh, Dave, that like people felt this disconnection from the past.

01:05:31.620 They wanted mainly role models.

01:05:33.620 Marcus Aurelius, great emperor, good man, strong.

01:05:38.620 The meditations are, you know, really.

01:05:41.620 Meditations.

01:05:42.620 They've changed a lot of lives.

01:05:43.620 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:44.620 Um, and, um, you know, Seneca is another, he's a great writer.

01:05:48.620 He's a great writer.

01:05:49.620 He's, you know, the conciliere of Emperor Nero.

01:05:53.620 Uh, not quite as, as admirable a character in his personal life.

01:05:58.620 Not a bad guy, but a great, a better writer than Marcus Aurelius.

01:06:02.620 So is Epictetus famously the slave who gets freed eventually this like slave philosopher

01:06:08.620 and showing you that, you know, no matter what you have the choice to be virtuous and

01:06:13.620 to be free, even if you are a slave.

01:06:15.620 It's a lot of really good lessons in, in these, these authors.

01:06:18.620 And, um, I think that, well, my sense is that this, this took off for the reasons you

01:06:25.620 said, people are kind of grasping for some kind of depth.

01:06:28.620 And then it's sort of run its course for two reasons.

01:06:31.620 One of them is, you know, when I was in my early twenties, I got into stoicism and I'm

01:06:38.620 like, this is, this is it.

01:06:39.620 This is like, it's so simple.

01:06:41.620 Uh, you know, this is so useful.

01:06:44.620 There's so many maxims, you know, focus on what you can control, not what you can't.

01:06:48.620 Um, you know, cosmic, um, cosmic order.

01:06:52.620 Like there's, there's a lot of good stuff, but stoicism after a while, I think most people

01:07:00.620 who are kind of high openness get a little bored with it because there's only so much depth

01:07:06.620 you can go into.

01:07:07.620 There's like these three big authors, uh, their metaphysical system, you know, their, their

01:07:12.620 account of like the universe is, is a little weird.

01:07:15.620 And, uh, you know, the universe is consumed in fire every 5,000 years or something.

01:07:22.620 Uh, you know, there's, you kind of hit, hit the bottom of it sort of soon.

01:07:29.620 And there were other things that kind of padded that, right?

01:07:31.620 Like at the same time, we got 12 rules for life from Jordan Peterson.

01:07:34.620 Yes.

01:07:35.620 Uh, the rings of power, I think what was, uh, also made, uh, it was like five rings of power

01:07:40.620 or something like that.

01:07:41.620 Uh, and then there was also the, uh, art of war.

01:07:44.620 Uh, so like there was a, there was a bunch of, you know, this resurgence and it was, it

01:07:48.620 was men looking for direction and scaffolding.

01:07:51.620 And then maybe it was just too dry.

01:07:55.620 It wasn't enough.

01:07:56.620 There, there needed to be something else on top of it.

01:07:58.620 Yeah, I think, I think that's right.

01:08:00.620 And, um, and I'll get to my pros and solution in a second, but I think that the other aspect

01:08:06.620 of this is that it kind of got domesticated.

01:08:10.620 You know, it, it sort of got turned into a squishy self-help.

01:08:16.620 Yeah.

01:08:17.620 Yeah.

01:08:18.620 That didn't really demand a lot of you at the end of the day.

01:08:22.620 It didn't really demand you.

01:08:23.620 You could keep doing your, uh, you know, Lambo hustle, or you could keep doing your kind 1.00

01:08:29.620 of boring desk job and, you know, Hey, stoicism is for women too. 1.00

01:08:34.620 Hey, you know, if you're a mom, you can be a mom stoic.

01:08:37.620 And it gets so kind of, you know, uh, pop Buddhism-ified that, that men sort of start

01:08:44.620 to lose interest.

01:08:45.620 Like there isn't, it's not really calling me to some higher.

01:08:47.620 Yeah.

01:08:48.620 It's like, okay.

01:08:49.620 Once I refined myself by way of these rules or these laws or what have you, then what?

01:08:56.620 Right.

01:08:57.620 Right.

01:08:58.620 Exactly.

01:08:59.620 And I think that, that Plutarch is a great solution practically because, you know, if you've

01:09:05.620 gotten enough into Rome, the best place to start like going deep is familiarizing yourselves

01:09:13.620 with the great men of Rome and, and, and Greece and Plutarch, Plutarch's lives.

01:09:19.620 It's great, great classic.

01:09:20.620 It was, it was the most popular ancient book.

01:09:23.620 One of the most like top five, most popular books of all in the 18th century in America.

01:09:28.620 It's hugely popular among the founding fathers.

01:09:31.620 There's great examples of, you know, people resisting tyrants, launching coups, fighting

01:09:36.620 battles, dying honorably, all this stuff.

01:09:39.620 Um, one of the characters of Plutarch's lives that was really influential is Cato the younger,

01:09:44.620 who's Rome's greatest stoic.

01:09:47.620 I would say he didn't write anything that we have today, but, um, he sort of cited his

01:09:54.620 stoicism or at least stoicism was kind of part of his, you know, public presence, self presentation

01:10:00.620 in his resistance to Julius Caesar, his defense of the Republic.

01:10:04.620 So, I mean, these, these lives are just so much more textured and give you like, like we

01:10:09.620 were talking about that scaffolding of, of archetypes.

01:10:12.620 Like what should you be striving for?

01:10:14.620 Sure.

01:10:15.620 You put your stoic principles in the service of, I think that Plutarch is gives you a lot

01:10:20.620 of data points for that.

01:10:23.620 One other philosopher that I really like, who is not a great read, I have to admit, but

01:10:32.620 very smart and influential is Aristotle.

01:10:35.620 Hmm.

01:10:36.620 And if you, if you pick up Aristotle's ethics and you skip to, to, to book four, I think

01:10:41.620 it's right at the, right at the beginning of book four towards the beginning, he talks

01:10:46.620 about this, this quintessential virtue of greatness, which is greatness of soul.

01:10:52.620 And, uh, megalopsikia is the Greek word great.

01:10:56.620 It's come sometimes called greatness of mind, magnanimity, but it's this idea that, or it's

01:11:02.620 a virtue that you can cultivate where you desire great things, consider yourself worthy of

01:11:09.620 them and are correct in that judgment.

01:11:13.620 So it's, it's a, it's like good ambition.

01:11:16.620 It's, it's the highest form of ambition and you, you're correct in your judgment that

01:11:21.620 you deserve great things because you are actually virtuous.

01:11:23.620 So it means you, you desire to be worthy of the esteem of your, your fellow men.

01:11:30.620 And, uh, this is like Abraham Lincoln.

01:11:33.620 This is, this is George Washington.

01:11:34.620 This is so many of our great leaders.

01:11:36.620 You like you, you, you aspire to like, well, to, to honor is what Aristotle says to like

01:11:42.620 leadership, you know, um, in, in the service of something good.

01:11:46.620 And that requires you to be, um, to, to merit the esteem of your, of your fellow men.

01:11:52.620 And I think this is something that a lot of Plutarch's heroes exhibit.

01:11:56.620 And that's why the founding fathers like George Washington were obsessed with Cato.

01:12:00.620 And John Adams is obsessed with Cicero.

01:12:03.620 He's obsessed with the Pamanandas of Thebes and other great kind of democratic leader,

01:12:08.620 really brave man.

01:12:09.620 So, um, that's, I think that's where I think we should go after the stoicism thing has run its course.

01:12:16.620 Like you can still be a stoic and then admire these guys and, and, you know, add something on top of it.

01:12:23.620 It's interesting because, you know, there's no place to go after the stoicism.

01:12:28.620 Uh, and what you're saying is a good direction, but it was in response to this subversion, this ideological subversion of America.

01:12:36.620 And after you armed yourself with the tenants of stoicism, there was no battle to fight because the nature of the subversion was one that only took place in dialogue.

01:12:47.620 And, and then they, they managed to effectively shut that dialogue down, right?

01:12:52.620 So the dialogue was no longer taking place in the town square, but it's taking place on the internet where the censorship moderators can remove you from the conversation entirely.

01:13:03.620 So, um, the stoicism should lead you almost to the public square of dialogue, right?

01:13:09.620 To now express these ideas and these values, but then you're, you're being turned off.

01:13:14.620 You can't even express them.

01:13:15.620 There's trigger words that'll, you know, the algorithm will notice you and you will get your account banned or you will get.

01:13:21.620 So now the public square is, uh, uh, unfairly moderated and it's, it's leaning in one direction.

01:13:28.620 So it snuffs out the flame that's been ignited by the stoicism.

01:13:31.620 There's no outlet for it.

01:13:33.620 And you can't go directly to combat if there is no public square, meaning in the public square where the dialogue used to happen.

01:13:41.620 If the dialogue couldn't be reconciled, then actual, you know, combat of some sort would take place.

01:13:46.620 Right.

01:13:47.620 And this would like snowball into an actual war or a civil war.

01:13:50.620 Now there is no dialogue.

01:13:53.620 Do you think, do you think that's why there's been a concerted effort?

01:13:56.620 I mean, we'll talk about like white men. 0.81

01:13:59.620 Um, there's been a concerted effort to spike the idea of being white.

01:14:04.620 Uh, people are not supposed to be proud of it.

01:14:06.620 And then that gets mixed up with white pride.

01:14:08.620 And, you know, obviously there are extremes of this, but we have a generation of people who.

01:14:13.620 Are, I think that they were, or are still ashamed of either their skin color or what people have told them what they are and their, their fathers and their, their family are called the monsters and conquerors and racists and homophobes.

01:14:27.620 Right. But now, now there's a movement in the other direction, which is kind of like these ideas of Aristotle.

01:14:33.620 But I'm also careful with like, even with myself, with that idea of like, what do I deserve as, as a man?

01:14:41.620 Because I know when I was younger, I might've thought I did not, you know, I was like, man, who am I to, to deserve this thing?

01:14:50.620 And guess what? You're not going to get that thing because you're, you've already told yourself, like, I don't deserve this.

01:14:55.620 Therefore I will not work for it.

01:14:57.620 I'm unworthy of it.

01:14:58.620 Older. I said, no, no, no, I deserve the nice things.

01:15:01.620 Like I just, I work for this stuff.

01:15:03.620 I, I, I know who I am.

01:15:05.620 And then you kind of, it's weird.

01:15:07.620 You manifest, you get those nice things, but there is also a slippery slope of, I deserve, I am, therefore, and then your ego, like I, you've got to check.

01:15:19.620 It's almost a question, right?

01:15:20.620 If you suppress that in a, in a, in a, let's say a race, like the white race enough, could you theoretically create the sentiment of supremacy as, as a disproportionate snapback?

01:15:31.620 Yes.

01:15:32.620 And this is what I struggled with recently where it's like, and you've seen it or I'm like, I got to dial it back because I'm like, I have, with things that I've created and then people who have, you know, kind of wronged me.

01:15:44.620 In a sense, I was, I was very humble deal within dealing with them, but then the reality was, wait a second.

01:15:51.620 I created that.

01:15:52.620 I created the thing that you're using now for success, but I never threw it in your face, but I also have to realize that I created that thing.

01:16:01.620 And then the slippery slope is me.

01:16:04.620 I, I, I, I, I, I, and I can, I, we can go crazy with that.

01:16:07.620 Oh yeah.

01:16:08.620 Right.

01:16:09.620 And I'm like, oh shit, I can, I don't want to go there.

01:16:10.620 And it seems like that's, it could be where we're headed.

01:16:13.620 Is that, is that a, I mean.

01:16:15.620 A concern.

01:16:16.620 Does it, yeah.

01:16:17.620 Does that resonate with what you're saying there?

01:16:19.620 Yeah, totally.

01:16:20.620 And it's certainly something Aristotle is concerned with.

01:16:22.620 It's, it's interesting because.

01:16:24.620 So one of the ways that he just kind of refines this concept of greatness of soul is to distinguish it.

01:16:32.620 All of his virtues are kind of means between two extremes.

01:16:35.620 So like courage is this mean between the extreme of cowardice on the one hand and like rashness on the other hand.

01:16:42.620 And, and so greatness of soul is a mean between vanity on the one hand, and then what he calls smallness of soul, which we might say is humility.

01:16:54.620 But I think actually real humility, even like Christian humility is about knowing fully who you are.

01:17:03.620 And when you, when you look at yourself in relation to the omnipotent God, you realize you're, you're less than a worm, but you should also realize where you stand in relation to your fellow men.

01:17:15.620 And all good things come from God, but you know, you might actually deserve that job more than the other guy.

01:17:20.620 And, and, and to recognize that is not contradict humility.

01:17:25.620 And so I think that greatness of soul can kind of actually probably should coexist with, with humility in that sense of like knowing what you, who you are, like having a really.

01:17:36.620 Accurate opinion of your own capabilities and your own achievements and your own virtue, which people tend to overestimate.

01:17:44.620 People tend to overestimate yes on, on the vanity end, but people also tend to underestimate it.

01:17:48.620 And I think that actually the characteristic vice of our day has a lot to do with exactly what you were talking about.

01:17:54.620 That people, you know, especially the sort of like white, especially males, probably especially white males have been told.

01:18:01.620 You're bad, you're bad.

01:18:03.620 Look, look at all the things you did throughout history.

01:18:05.620 You pressed all of those, those poor women and the colonials. 1.00

01:18:10.620 And, and, and so, you know, we're, we're taught to kind of lead with this modesty or this, this humility or false humility, even.

01:18:20.620 And Aristotle says actually false humility or, or what he calls smallness of soul is worse than vanity.

01:18:29.620 I think vanity, you can actually like put somebody like that to use.

01:18:33.620 The small of soul is more is further away from, from greatness of soul.

01:18:38.620 And it's, and it's kind of useless.

01:18:40.620 But that's that.

01:18:41.620 Other people.

01:18:42.620 That vanity is what allows the archetype of the fool to become the hero, right?

01:18:46.620 Because it's like the foolishness to think that you can go out and do this thing.

01:18:51.620 I stumble upon something great.

01:18:53.620 Yeah.

01:18:54.620 But whereas if you had smallness of soul to too much of a degree, then you wouldn't go out and meet the challenge.

01:18:58.620 You kind of need to be a fool to go out and meet the challenge.

01:19:02.620 Roll that dice and then potentially become somebody that overcomes and is renowned, right?

01:19:07.620 Becomes the hero.

01:19:08.620 So yeah, without that, if everybody is moving around with, you know, smallness of soul, then nobody is going and, and, and fighting the monster.

01:19:17.620 Nobody fights the dragon.

01:19:18.620 Nobody overcomes the dragon.

01:19:19.620 Nobody overcomes the dragon.

01:19:20.620 And then we all just remain under its, you know, under its, uh, what do they got?

01:19:24.620 It's claw.

01:19:25.620 It's claw.

01:19:26.620 Yeah.

01:19:27.620 Yeah.

01:19:28.620 And at least, at least the vanity, there's like some clay on the table you can work with.

01:19:32.620 Like you can mold that into, into a proper kind of desire for, I, I, I should actually deserve this.

01:19:38.620 Like somebody that, that person can have a conscience and say, all right, I got to actually earn this and they can learn from their mistakes.

01:19:45.620 Right.

01:19:46.620 You get punched in the face when you, when you go too far and maybe you can actually become great.

01:19:51.620 Uh, but with, with, without even trying, you know, you're never going to get there.

01:19:57.620 Uh, where, where do you, um, I mean, do you see, uh, we're in a weird, we're in a weird place.

01:20:04.620 We just had the assassination of, of Charlie Kirk.

01:20:07.620 We have this, um, uh, boiling point.

01:20:10.620 It seems that we've reached and given all of your historical context, um, a lot of people will look at, we were talking earlier before the show started.

01:20:21.620 There was that meme.

01:20:22.620 How often do you think about the Roman empire?

01:20:24.620 And I, I would put a little caveat on that.

01:20:26.620 And I say, most people, if they are, are thinking about the fall of Rome as it applies to the, the, you know, the American empire.

01:20:33.620 Um, I think that that is probably been the droning thing that's been on people's mind.

01:20:38.620 Um, but not, I mean, throughout this conversation, the parallels and not just this conversation, but ones we've had with Jeremy Ryan Slate and, you know, just thought about previously the, the correlation and between Donald Trump and Caesar.

01:20:53.620 That's an interesting one.

01:20:54.620 Yeah.

01:20:55.620 This idea of the populist movement.

01:20:57.620 I think even the left nails it with like years ago when they did their play of Donald Trump being assassinated the way Caesar was, it's almost an admission of what they, what they're seeing and what's being played out.

01:21:09.620 Um, and I, and I was telling you about that whole correlation.

01:21:12.620 It's like the first emperor of Rome ushered in what was called the golden age.

01:21:16.620 And, and Trump is talking about this golden age.

01:21:19.620 And then he just happens to be the first sitting president at Caesar's superdome.

01:21:22.620 I thought it was fun.

01:21:23.620 He's the first president at a super bowl.

01:21:25.620 Uh, so there's a lot of weird kind of like, um, themes, these themes and, and, and given the arc of history, it does seem that history has a tendency to, to rhyme.

01:21:34.620 Uh, and so I don't, I mean, where do you put us in comparison?

01:21:40.620 Do you have a lot of, um, optimism about the direction that America is headed, especially given recent events?

01:21:46.620 Uh, or is history teaching you maybe to be more cautious with that optimism?

01:21:51.620 Yeah.

01:21:52.620 Well, it can always blow up in your face.

01:21:55.620 I, I tend to be an inveterate optimist by disposition, but I do think that we, you know, like if you ask people in Britain, we've got it better.

01:22:05.620 We're, we're, we're like the last hope.

01:22:09.620 Britain just had that, like, there's like millions of people marching in the streets of England right now.

01:22:16.620 Uh, and it's fascinating to watch that unfold as well.

01:22:19.620 Yeah, definitely.

01:22:21.620 And, and, uh, I think that they're, they're kind of looking to us to lead the way.

01:22:26.620 And it's funny how the, the cultural direction is sort of switched across the Atlantic.

01:22:32.620 But so I, the reasons for optimism don't necessarily involve a civil war like they do in Caesar's case.

01:22:42.620 I think they, they don't and they shouldn't.

01:22:44.620 Uh, but if, if you look at Trump versus Caesar, um, some interesting parallels include, you know, Caesar is a populist.

01:22:55.620 He is building his constituency with the, the, the have nots, not necessarily the dirt poor. 1.00

01:23:02.620 You can only do so much with the dirt poor, but it's with the kind of competent, you know, just middle class.

01:23:12.620 Sons can be soldiers, go fight for Caesar, the, the, the middle to upper middle class versus the, the super elites. 0.80

01:23:21.620 And he's building a really wide power base.

01:23:23.620 So one of the things that he does, um, is to, to, to foster his rise that is sort of un-Trump like is he, he goes and he wages this great campaign in, in France.

01:23:37.620 And he conquers basically all of France for Rome, the Gauls or this, you know, tribal people that, uh, had occasionally invaded Italy.

01:23:46.620 And they actually sacked Rome 300 years before Caesar's day.

01:23:49.620 So, you know, they were, they were a real formidable force.

01:23:52.620 And, uh, Caesar found some excuse that they, you know, they were pushing some ally of Rome around and he kind of goes in there and he fights a battle.

01:24:01.620 Establishes the beachhead kind of, it works out from there to kind of gradually conquer the place and make it seem almost like an accident as the Romans love to do in their conquests. 0.80

01:24:13.620 They're just like, you know, defending their, the interests of their friends on every separate occasion, but it's an incredible achievement.

01:24:20.620 And, um, you know, a lot of, a lot of lives lost, of course, but the Gauls love to fight battles just as much as the Romans.

01:24:28.620 So, you know, it was a, it was a fair game, I think, um, to put it bluntly, but the, the, what this did for Caesar is it gave him this, this power base of, um, of people that respected him and saw his competence and maybe, and it kind of made a name for him.

01:24:45.620 And I think Trump's rise was very different.

01:24:48.620 Of course, you have the real estate empire and he's already kind of a, a celebrity in New York, even before he starts the apprentice, which just becomes this incredible kind of training ground for him to develop that like camera readiness.

01:25:04.620 And, and, and, and the kind of meme power that he has kind of quick witted, you know, Twitter game that he's got, uh, so much of his like public persona that he had that.

01:25:17.620 Yeah.

01:25:18.620 It's kind of way.

01:25:19.620 Yeah.

01:25:20.620 Yeah.

01:25:21.620 Yeah.

01:25:22.620 That you mean like, where is it now?

01:25:24.620 Yeah.

01:25:25.620 Yeah.

01:25:26.620 It's kind of, I mean, he's, he is 80.

01:25:28.620 So yeah, it's, it's, you know, the, the sword's gotten a little dull.

01:25:33.620 Yeah.

01:25:34.620 But, um, but I think that illustrates that.

01:25:38.620 So Caesar's an anti-establishment figure.

01:25:40.620 That's, that's, you could argue that's kind of leftward and, and Caesar's an heir of the Gracchi who are these great populists who wanted to redistribute land, not to the dirt poor again, but to the kind of left out middle classes.

01:25:52.620 And that's a lot of what Trump has been doing.

01:25:55.620 And it's a lot of what Caesar did.

01:25:57.620 There's some interesting, uh, differences.

01:26:00.620 So Caesar was, uh, an advocate of granting more citizenship to the, um, to these certain, you know, loyal provincials.

01:26:15.620 Um, people in Italy and like Northern Italy that had not had Roman citizenship, uh, but had fought in his wars.

01:26:22.620 He wanted to expand citizenship to them, but it wasn't about, you know, flooding Rome with, uh, with kind of dependent clients.

01:26:31.620 Uh, that would be, you know, social, social program, uh, you know, spongers for, for the rest of their lives and like permanent political clients of the, of the party.

01:26:44.620 But, you know, they were people that had, they were kind of from the upper classes.

01:26:47.620 And, um, so I think the immigration or the citizenship issue is like plays out really differently in Rome.

01:26:55.620 Uh, but, but the way that he ended up as the first man in Rome is because the oligarchy refused to accept him as a, like a legitimate deserver of his honors.

01:27:10.620 Like they, you know, his enemies, especially Cato, he's off in Gaul fighting this incredibly, terrifically difficult war.

01:27:18.620 Um, and he wants to come back and, you know, get the honor that he deserves from Rome.

01:27:26.620 He wants a triumph, you know, big triumphal procession.

01:27:29.620 And he wants to run for consul again in absentia.

01:27:33.620 And, um, you know, we don't need to get into the constitutional details, but basically his enemies and, and his former friend Pompey say, no, you can't come back to Rome unless you basically lay down all of your armies and put yourself at the mercy of the current government.

01:27:50.620 And, um, Caesar said, well, essentially you're, you're asking me to give like to, to, to concede all of the dignity that I earned from, from my conquests and you're, you're punking me.

01:28:07.620 And, uh, that's unjust.

01:28:09.620 And I think that that was like a really legitimate claim.

01:28:12.620 I mean, was it worth fighting a civil war over?

01:28:15.620 Many people would say, no, Caesar thought it was, but he, he, at the same time.

01:28:20.620 He didn't want to fight a civil war.

01:28:22.620 I think that's really important to emphasize that people don't, don't believe him when he says that, but there's so much evidence.

01:28:28.620 He tried everything he could not to fight a civil war, uh, to deescalate the situation.

01:28:33.620 Once it had started, he invades Italy.

01:28:36.620 He crosses the Rubicon.

01:28:37.620 Um, once it starts, he's like, all right, I, I crossed the red line to show you that I'm serious.

01:28:44.620 I'm serious, but come on, we don't, we, it doesn't have to go this way.

01:28:47.620 He tries it again and again and again.

01:28:49.620 But he's not willing to essentially allow himself to be become.

01:28:56.620 It's like political suicide to, to, to concede to their demands.

01:28:59.620 It's like, you will never hold office in this town again, Caesar, for all of the bad things you did 10 years ago.

01:29:06.620 You know, he had some indiscretions in his past that weren't, they weren't crimes.

01:29:11.620 They were, you know, political pushing of the envelope.

01:29:15.620 They, they just want him grabbing by the pussy stuff, huh? 1.00

01:29:18.620 Yeah, that, that kind of stuff.

01:29:20.620 And, you know, the sort of thing that, I mean, it's, it's comparable to the way that, you know, if Trump had lost in 2024, you know, he would have, they would have hounded him in the courts.

01:29:32.620 And he was, you know, a negative net worth of a billion.

01:29:36.620 Right.

01:29:37.620 So there's something similar.

01:29:39.620 There's something similar.

01:29:40.620 I think that we were at a kind of similar crisis point, possibly, like if the election had been stolen, not that it ever was stolen.

01:29:49.620 I don't know.

01:29:50.620 No, YouTube.

01:29:51.620 We're not saying that.

01:29:52.620 We're not saying that.

01:29:53.620 Totally was.

01:29:54.620 Yeah.

01:29:55.620 But, but, you know, we, we could have faced a really similar crisis.

01:29:59.620 And I think that we, we dodged it by, by the efforts of a guy like Charlie Kirk, frankly.

01:30:04.620 Right.

01:30:05.620 So, you know, there, since, since that happened, I think there's hope that we can perform things internally.

01:30:17.620 But we have a lot more working against us than the Romans did because we have, you know, these civil conflicts tend to just eat away at the bonds of trust and, and culture already.

01:30:29.620 But we've just been spending the past half of a century telling people they don't need to read history, telling people that the basic social institutions that have been around for millennia are corrupt and need to be rejected.

01:30:44.620 You know, marriage and children and gender and all this stuff.

01:30:48.620 I almost feel like a lot of rebuilding to do.

01:30:50.620 I feel like we could do a lot of that rebuilding if we gave men back their spaces and, and we eliminated these sort of party line, ideological lines that separate us and keep us from talking.

01:31:04.620 Honestly, and I know it sounds because it's a kind of kind of comedic bent to it.

01:31:08.620 Get women out of the room, get these guys together. 1.00

01:31:12.620 And I mean like, you know, the thin armed men with the ponytails that are blue, as well as military vet, get them in the same room and get them exchanging these ideas.

01:31:23.620 Like there needs to be a dialogue.

01:31:25.620 The dialogue was kept from being, you know, had from, for a long time.

01:31:30.620 Like I said, by these moderators, the public spaces, the public dialogue spaces, the town squares cannot be digital exclusively.

01:31:39.620 They need to be physical rooms where I can sit down and share these ideas.

01:31:45.620 And it needs to happen repeatedly until we can come to some sort of a general agreement where these bad ideas can go to die and good ideas can rise to the top.

01:31:56.620 This, this, this sort of civil war thing is inevitable if we don't have spaces like the ones that, you know, were subverted that you were a part of previously and now are, are, are, you know, continuing to do.

01:32:08.620 But Alex, do you think, do you think that 2024, um, by taking the reins of political power, do you think that that was enough?

01:32:18.620 Because at the time I said, I don't want to sound like a, I guess I don't care if I sound like a political extremist, but I saw it and I said, yeah, that's the only way for this to go.

01:32:28.520 Because if, uh, the right wing does not take back power, the left is playing for keeps here.

01:32:33.940 I feel like we're at a point where if you, as a, as the right wing of politics, if you do not take power decisively for the, I don't know, for the, the, the time being.

01:32:47.720 A generation, maybe it's, it takes a while, right? 0.77

01:32:50.980 Dude, yeah.

01:32:51.560 We program people.

01:32:53.580 I, yeah.

01:32:53.980 And it's a lot more difficult than Rome because we have the apparatus that we're using now, which I, I firmly believe like an, just an MK ultra, uh, program, this form of mind control, this soft form of mind control through psychedelics, through medicine, through whatever, whatever you want to call it through programming television.

01:33:11.320 And it is, I mean, man, it is ingrained in our culture and it's not fair to even hold an election and, and, and tell these people to make a conscious decision.

01:33:21.940 But the point is, is that, you know, Donald Trump wins this election for another four years, you have control.

01:33:29.620 He's still battling within, and I don't even really know his true intention, but is that, is that far enough to avoid, uh, a civil war?

01:33:39.460 Because it seems like that quelled it for a time where you can kind of hold this together.

01:33:45.080 And it's like, you know, it's not easy to hold this thing.

01:33:47.680 It's struggling, but then we have another four, we got another election cycle coming up as a matter of fact, in two, by 2026, like these issues that we should be dealing with are going to be off the table.

01:33:58.100 And it's just going to be, how could I get elected the next time?

01:34:00.600 Or how could my, uh, you know, JD Vance get elected for the next.

01:34:03.560 And I'm like, what a waste.

01:34:04.940 Like we are in, we're in the throes of turmoil.

01:34:08.080 And realistically you have a year and a half to fix this before you have to start campaigning for the next one.

01:34:14.440 It's insanity.

01:34:15.400 It is insanity.

01:34:16.260 It's why I'm like, you know, you start looking at monarchy and he was like, yeah, I get, I, I, it's a long time.

01:34:21.020 At what point did Julius Caesar, uh, decide like, like, you know, he's like, I don't want to do this civil war thing, but like, we're going to do this.

01:34:28.260 Like, was there a deciding factor because I'm looking at like what it may be here.

01:34:33.180 Yeah.

01:34:34.020 The, um, well, just to go on to your earlier point, I, I, it, it occurred to me that one of the problems that we have is this, uh, managerial bureaucracy, which is, tends to be very,

01:34:45.380 very feminine in the way that, that it works.

01:34:47.280 You know, these like large bureaucratic institutions kind of like feminine qualities are often HR office. 1.00

01:34:55.200 And also just like what, what, what the, um, what the ancients would look at it is kind of like the rule of eunuchs, you know, these, um, yeah.

01:35:03.900 You know, the kind of cadre of, uh, of, you know, bureaucrats and courtiers, many of whom, you know, get castrated on purpose because that means that they can inhabit the bureaucracy without ever having the hope of rising to the top.

01:35:21.280 Cause nobody wants to be the subject of a eunuch and then do you know that?

01:35:26.260 And so they're just going to kind of like operate behind the scenes.

01:35:29.140 So that's a wild decision to make.

01:35:31.480 Like, this is what I want to do.

01:35:32.820 It's not a wild decision.

01:35:33.560 I mean, you see it off.

01:35:34.960 You see it with like, I mean, at the smallest level, it's like the skinny college dude that's around all the woman. 0.97

01:35:41.260 And yeah, male feminists, he's castrated himself in order to kind of like stay behind the scenes.

01:35:45.560 He's like, maybe I'll get a crump.

01:35:46.700 You know, it's like, yeah, that's, that's, that's another archetype.

01:35:50.240 That's not, we haven't mentioned today, but I guess here we go.

01:35:52.980 Yeah.

01:35:53.580 There's as many bad ones as there are good ones.

01:35:56.180 Um, but the Romans were really suspicious of permanent bureaucracies.

01:36:02.020 So they, they don't have like a, a department of, um, you know, um, like what's the word procurement?

01:36:10.600 They don't have like a military supply office.

01:36:15.380 They just have private contractors do everything because, um, if you, if you have like a department

01:36:24.100 of, you know, an IRS, they don't have an IRS.

01:36:26.880 They have private contractors doing all of that.

01:36:29.660 They, the, the, the state sets up these contracts.

01:36:32.600 All right.

01:36:32.720 We need taxes from the province of Asia.

01:36:36.080 And then a couple of companies come together and they're like, all right, we think that

01:36:40.740 we can get you, you know, 10 million Sesterces this year and Rome.

01:36:45.080 And, you know, the, the other companies like, well, we think we can get you 12 million.

01:36:48.800 And so this, the state's like, all right, 12 million, they've got the more credible, you

01:36:53.640 know, they've got a good team.

01:36:54.740 We trust them.

01:36:55.380 And then those guys go and they go collect 15 million and they keep 3 million for themselves.

01:37:01.480 Right.

01:37:02.000 These are the publicans that, that, you know, are criticized in the gospels, but, and there's

01:37:08.400 all of these ways that they just contract this stuff out.

01:37:11.620 This causes problems.

01:37:12.500 I'm not saying that we should do that, but they sensed that if you have a permanent bureaucracy

01:37:17.700 in any realm, that, that eventually becomes a power center that is not subject to kind

01:37:25.800 of Republican churn of offices and any kind of voter pressure and the political process.

01:37:31.080 I think this is a really big issue that we have to solve here.

01:37:34.020 And there are, I was just in DC recently and I had some friends, some listeners to my

01:37:38.320 show and the administration and it's like, they're really, they understand the problem

01:37:42.860 at least, I think.

01:37:44.300 So that gives me some, some hope.

01:37:46.540 And it, but it's a, the Doge thing.

01:37:48.860 I mean, it's really hard, right?

01:37:50.280 It was tried during Reagan and, you know, we've just scratched the surface.

01:37:55.020 We're struggling at both ends though.

01:37:56.680 I mean, we have a public entities controlling the government as well as government entities

01:38:03.540 controlling the government without any kind of recompense.

01:38:06.220 So we're like, you need to talk about Rome.

01:38:08.540 We're in a lot of trouble.

01:38:10.100 How much of this is our fault, right?

01:38:12.880 We're talking about men and, and strong leaders being the solution.

01:38:17.340 And, you know, Hicktown Honey is one of the supporters of the show.

01:38:20.940 She said something, if you scroll up a little bit, she said, no, it's more, it's higher up.

01:38:26.720 It would be nice if y'all would have shut down gay losers ideas immediately rather than I 1.00

01:38:34.260 want to smack them through the computer.

01:38:36.200 So what she's saying here is like, you know, this idea of strong men, right?

01:38:40.680 How much of it falls on the shoulders of, of the strong men who came before, you know,

01:38:44.980 when this ideology started to take a stranglehold, I was a kid.

01:38:48.660 The problem is that you do need that push and pull of the liberal ideology versus the conservative

01:38:54.840 ideology because one will consistently go too far.

01:38:58.560 And we've been talking a lot on this show about we're watching the conservative or the

01:39:02.180 right wing.

01:39:02.680 We're like, that's going to go too far.

01:39:04.760 Right.

01:39:05.000 But I wanted to go, but I'm just like, that's just naturally going to go too far.

01:39:09.160 But there was a time when there were voices that should have been piping up because a

01:39:13.300 lot of us said, this is gay a decade, you know, two decades ago, even back when they 0.99

01:39:21.360 were telling men that they need to be more in touch with their feminine side and that 0.97

01:39:25.500 it's okay for men to cry.

01:39:26.860 Like that was kind of like the getting the foot in the door.

01:39:29.120 The feminization of, of men was happening.

01:39:32.600 And I guess we didn't have, you know, hindsight is 2020, but there were, uh, not enough influential

01:39:38.580 voices standing up and going, no, we don't need to do that.

01:39:43.080 And, uh, you know, I guess it would have taken somebody with incredible foresight about slippery

01:39:47.800 slopes.

01:39:48.940 Somebody just has read a couple of books, right?

01:39:51.200 Maybe somebody that understood a little bit of history.

01:39:53.220 Uh, but how much of this falls on, it almost feels like it all falls on the shoulders of,

01:39:57.940 of strong men who should have put a stop to this.

01:40:01.480 That's, that's what, that's what I think.

01:40:04.080 I mean, it's, uh, the, the feminization of culture is about the feminization of men.

01:40:10.120 Ultimately it's about men kind of, I, you know, exceeding the, the, the responsibility.

01:40:17.960 Um, I think a lot of it is kind of contemptible self-interest and, you know, I'm, I'm led he

01:40:24.900 who is without sin cast the first stone, but you know, I, so I get it because like, if

01:40:29.660 you're, if you're, uh, kind of anti-patriarchy as a man in the, in the nineties or the aughts,

01:40:36.840 like, you know, there's hot girls in that feminism one-on-one class, right? 1.00

01:40:42.540 Back when they were actually still hot.

01:40:44.220 Now they're all goblins.

01:40:46.260 Then there, there really were.

01:40:47.960 I'd prompt, trust me.

01:40:49.800 I swear, dude, I swear there were.

01:40:51.560 So, and I think that, that, that pattern kind of plays out in, in the corporate offices

01:40:58.640 where, you know, being an ally or whatever, this, this can kind of, it gets you these like

01:41:03.360 short-term kind of honeypot benefits and, uh, and it gets you public acclaim and, you know,

01:41:09.820 the, the, the newscasters and the, the whole kind of system.

01:41:14.400 The ideology was, was there maybe despite the, it, like it was already kind of percolating

01:41:21.900 through in the, in the fifties, sixties, seventies, but then it took, it took men to, in positions

01:41:27.880 of authority to capitalize on it and say, oh, I can become more popular.

01:41:32.960 Um, I can, um, I can, you know, whatever it is, get richer or have more dates.

01:41:40.260 If I concede to this, even though it's kind of questionable, that short-term thinking is, uh,

01:41:47.580 precisely, I think where the problem lies is, is like a man of responsibility, not really

01:41:53.980 thinking about their grandchildren, but yeah, this is what happened.

01:41:58.020 Are we talking about bloomers?

01:41:59.320 Well, Woodrow Wilson is like, I, I mean, I hate the guy and this actually stems almost

01:42:03.620 directly from him when, uh, I think women's suffrage was, uh, 1918, 1919.

01:42:10.720 And at first he, he opposed it.

01:42:12.620 He's like, this is ridiculous.

01:42:13.480 What are you talking about?

01:42:14.060 We're going to let these guys vote.

01:42:15.120 And then he turned, he turned to realize that, oh, I have a really huge voter base here that

01:42:21.580 I push a lot of progressive policies with.

01:42:24.120 And then within a year, he's a supporter of it.

01:42:26.500 And then it gets passed and it's like, oh, so you've just used this as opportunity.

01:42:30.380 And now the country's ruined again, you know, among creating the federal reserve and a couple

01:42:34.940 of other things like, man, this is weak men create hard times, weak, unprincipled men.

01:42:39.940 Create hard times.

01:42:41.780 And if you look at it now, it's very clear that, um, the female voter base is the direct 0.68

01:42:48.160 recipient of the emotional leverage.

01:42:51.000 As I posted something on Facebook that said, you know, the poorest Southern border, the migrant 0.99

01:42:57.020 crisis that we have was facilitated by low information, high emotion voters, which are predominantly

01:43:04.780 women because they are the ones who are subjected to appeals, uh, to emotion. 1.00

01:43:10.240 And that's what we saw rampant.

01:43:12.120 Look at the map.

01:43:12.620 Just look at the voter map.

01:43:13.480 If you, if you remove, uh, I mean, specifically college educated female voters, it's like dark 0.96

01:43:18.700 red.

01:43:19.200 Not to say that, uh, not to say that obviously like Trump's policies are all 100% correct,

01:43:25.540 but it's like, it's way more correct than the opposition.

01:43:29.360 So, you know, my alarms go off whenever the media is, is emotion, uh, is manipulating you

01:43:37.060 emotionally, or at least, at least seeks to, I, I, I, that repels me.

01:43:40.980 I pull in the opposite direction of that.

01:43:43.060 Um, but that is the modality by which most of the detrimental legislation gets passed.

01:43:49.040 It is, it is emotional manipulation.

01:43:51.340 And then you're forced to ask, well, if it's not me, if I see when you're trying to manipulate

01:43:55.920 me emotionally, like I, I, I hate the idea of school shootings, but every time something

01:43:59.940 happens, you use the children to try to, you know, take away our guns or something like

01:44:04.200 that.

01:44:04.400 And I go, I'm not going to be manipulated.

01:44:06.240 Who's that working on?

01:44:07.960 It's, it's working on women. 1.00

01:44:10.980 Um, and so, uh, in my, in my boomer mom, uh, which I hope she's not listening.

01:44:17.620 I know she would not listen to something like this, but it's really terrible for them.

01:44:22.860 And yet it's, uh, it's not so easy to roll back because if you think about it, like there

01:44:27.560 are a lot of really high talent, high, high character, respectable women that, um, all right. 0.53

01:44:35.600 My, like my wife, for example, and the wives of many of my friends, like the strong,

01:44:40.860 you know, good values, mothers, you know, serious people, and then are they going to

01:44:47.120 vote?

01:44:47.380 And this like retarded bum can all, who's a man, are they not going to vote? 1.00

01:44:52.180 And then it's like idiot, like offset IQ leftist, whatever, um, is going to vote.

01:45:01.860 It's, it's, it's, it's not so easy to, to solve in that way, but I think it really does.

01:45:07.940 It, it, it damages them.

01:45:09.500 Cause they're, they're like the, the eye of sorrow of propaganda.

01:45:13.480 The end of Sauron is like on them because they're, it's on them.

01:45:16.640 And the only remedy I think we need to bring back hitting women. 1.00

01:45:21.740 Fine, fine.

01:45:22.460 It's too far.

01:45:23.360 It's too far, but no, there is, there is, uh, it's so obvious to me that you just put

01:45:28.480 it perfectly.

01:45:28.860 The, the eye of Sauron, the, the most sophisticated propaganda machine in the history of humanity

01:45:35.520 is aimed at women.

01:45:37.260 It's a crazy thing too.

01:45:38.240 With my wife, she's very much the same way.

01:45:39.920 She's like sensible as a matter of fact, if she didn't understand what I was like, cause

01:45:44.480 I'm constantly telling her, I'm like, look at this, look at this.

01:45:46.460 If she didn't understand the propaganda, she would probably just, uh, omit like voting 1.00

01:45:51.780 or omit even understanding politics at all.

01:45:54.820 Cause like, she's like, I'm worried about my kids.

01:45:57.040 And it's like, well, that's your archetypal role.

01:45:58.900 Like you've embodied that correctly.

01:46:00.640 Yeah.

01:46:01.140 The problem is that we've, we've asked you now to go out and do more, but with her, there's

01:46:06.520 the, there's a thing that I sense constantly where I'm like, if I don't like continue

01:46:09.800 to red pill her, if I just like, let her go, yeah, you've got to keep reeling them back

01:46:14.760 in.

01:46:15.060 No, no.

01:46:15.360 But because the eye of Sauron is completely on them and it's, it's hard to resist if you're

01:46:20.140 being bombarded with this nonsense where after a while you're like, that's you, right?

01:46:23.580 But I mean, like you have, you've cut yourself out, uh, you know, property here and you've

01:46:27.920 got your family unit together and you're, you're really focused on that.

01:46:31.140 Most people are drowning in debt.

01:46:34.220 Most people have, uh, uh, they make not enough money.

01:46:37.120 So both parents have to go out into the workforce, which means the state is raising your child,

01:46:41.660 right?

01:46:41.960 And so most family units are dispersed.

01:46:44.380 Most people will tell you politics is not important.

01:46:48.920 And I agree in a sense, but then when you look at, uh, where, cause the politics is paying

01:46:54.240 attention to you right now and it's moving, it's aimed at you, it's aimed at culture and

01:46:58.880 it's going to, it's going to touch you.

01:47:00.320 So if you're not paying attention to it, it's going to ruin your family.

01:47:02.940 And in 2020, I know a bunch of people who like either they're divorced or they have disaffected

01:47:08.100 marriages.

01:47:08.560 Now just with one thing that happened there, one major difference that was never spoken

01:47:13.360 about an ideological framework that was never, uh, fleshed out within their marriage, ripped

01:47:19.340 it apart.

01:47:20.080 Yeah.

01:47:20.360 Yep.

01:47:20.600 And it's like, well, you're not playing your roles and it's, it's hard to say these things

01:47:25.020 to people.

01:47:25.760 Yeah.

01:47:26.760 Uh, because it's, it's hurtful.

01:47:28.660 It's like, it's a, I had a conversation, it's, it's like, it's hard to say them.

01:47:33.180 And the longer we wait, the harder it gets.

01:47:35.160 And we should have been saying this 10 years ago.

01:47:37.120 Well, I don't, I don't know if I'm even doing the right thing, but I had a conversation with

01:47:40.460 my daughter at seven years old about the WNBA and at seven years old.

01:47:44.680 And I'm like, I have to explain the economic ramifications of when you insert, it's crazy.

01:47:50.620 Why the fuck do I got to explain this to a little kid?

01:47:53.240 But I'm like, Hey, that's actually, you know, this is propped up and funded by the NBA, a

01:47:58.360 place that people pay for.

01:48:00.200 So these women are now performing and dedicating their lives to a sport that doesn't exist 1.00

01:48:05.400 without, they don't really want to see it.

01:48:07.440 And now I'm the bad guy.

01:48:08.720 Cause I'm like, I, but I'm not the guy that's, I'm not buying the tickets either, but nobody

01:48:13.060 is.

01:48:13.760 Everybody gets mad at me when I buy a ticket and I show up and I throw a dildo on the

01:48:17.180 court.

01:48:17.420 I just don't want, I don't want my family or my friends or the people I'm talking to, to take

01:48:21.500 part in the delusion because it's, it is a delusion.

01:48:24.140 It's an economic delusion saying like, there's a viable market for this is like, there is

01:48:27.540 not, there is not.

01:48:28.860 If it was just on them to, you know, rent these stadiums and, and broadcast it, tell

01:48:33.740 that it wouldn't exist because there is no market response for this, but the delusion is

01:48:38.400 there.

01:48:39.040 And then people take that and they snowball that.

01:48:40.960 And God knows where that leads.

01:48:42.380 If you let them buy into that one delusion.

01:48:44.500 And my daughter's like, you know, I go, I go, this is actually not good.

01:48:47.540 And she's like, well, I'm a girl.

01:48:48.560 And I was like, I know, but let's sit down with me.

01:48:50.040 I got to explain this to you.

01:48:51.000 This is going to be hard, but it's like, this is the times we're living in.

01:48:54.000 And if you let people get away with it, then you, eventually you look back and you lose

01:48:57.720 your family.

01:48:58.720 And it's like, where are we at?

01:49:00.460 So I think all of that is to ask like, how hard should we be hitting them?

01:49:05.060 Like really hard or just a little hard, like open hand or closed hand.

01:49:08.340 I don't know what the rules are anymore.

01:49:09.900 With, with, with logic, with facts and logic, right?

01:49:12.000 Ah, all right.

01:49:12.700 With rhetoric, with rhetoric.

01:49:14.460 That's how you change people's minds.

01:49:15.980 Well, well, you know, I, your, your example with your wife, lobster is, it's like, you

01:49:21.940 know, now we have, um, their natural inclination, the natural inclination of most women, if they 1.00

01:49:28.440 have kids is to like, raise their kids, like, like be good mothers.

01:49:33.300 But now there's an ideological incentive for, for somebody to come along and say, oh, you

01:49:41.020 know, is that what your husband tells you you're good for?

01:49:45.440 That's, is that all you're good for?

01:49:46.880 You hit her too.

01:49:48.300 No, you point out that that person is a, well, a single mother.

01:49:52.420 There you go.

01:49:52.980 I was just going to point out that that's why she's single. 1.00

01:49:54.840 It's happened many times.

01:49:55.780 It's why she's fat. 1.00

01:49:56.280 And if I'm not, I'm not to brag about myself, but I have some self-worth of, if I wasn't

01:50:00.260 good at what I do, yeah, my wife could fall subject to that propaganda, but I'm like,

01:50:05.240 hold on a second.

01:50:05.940 I hear what she's saying, but all of her relationships have never worked out.

01:50:09.800 So let's talk about that.

01:50:11.060 And then you just move that like, that's rhetoric, right?

01:50:13.320 Yeah.

01:50:13.700 Let's just look at the fruits.

01:50:15.100 Look at the fruits of their life.

01:50:16.460 Yeah.

01:50:17.400 But, but, um, but it creates this weird incentive for, for, for, uh, women to like pay attention 1.00

01:50:23.900 to politics a lot.

01:50:25.280 And because they're more susceptible to social pressures.

01:50:28.420 Mm-hmm.

01:50:29.060 Yeah.

01:50:29.340 But it's interesting.

01:50:31.720 The women's suffrage, 1919, 1920 toastmasters is founded resolutely as an all-male group 0.98

01:50:41.180 in 1924.

01:50:42.860 It's like not too long after that.

01:50:45.620 I wonder if there's a correlation there.

01:50:47.240 Is it response to it?

01:50:48.780 It's a kind of response is like a Haven for men to come and like discuss politics and in

01:50:53.760 this older way.

01:50:54.620 You know, we used to have these institutions like the Lyceum clubs, you know, one of these

01:50:59.320 these debate clubs, Lincoln gave his first speech that kind of put them on the map, this

01:51:04.340 famous speech of the Lyceum club.

01:51:06.600 We used to have like the leather apron club that Ben Franklin founded.

01:51:10.220 Um, you know, that I think it turned into the, um, American philosophical society and all of these like

01:51:18.840 institutions where men would get together.

01:51:20.560 And like you were saying, you know, have to kind of defend their arguments in front of other men.

01:51:26.380 And, you know, if, if you make a kind of a habit of, of, uh, snide remarks and carping, you know,

01:51:34.880 eventually people are going to either, you know, ask you to not come again, or they're going to like

01:51:39.240 physically beat you up.

01:51:40.300 And that, that, that, that we've lost that sense of, are you have to restrain yourself and you have

01:51:46.160 to actually think through your position.

01:51:48.440 And, uh, it goes to show you like, cause that's the IRL, right?

01:51:52.900 Well, the IRL stuff is very important.

01:51:54.820 It's important when someone's next to you, you're like, I disagree with you.

01:51:57.380 Here's why, but I have to navigate it, navigate it in a way where you don't want to punch me.

01:52:02.100 Yeah.

01:52:02.660 Because, but that's also very, yeah.

01:52:04.160 Within proximity of being punched, the, the Illuminati did a great job.

01:52:07.900 They were like no women. 1.00

01:52:08.800 And then they took over the world.

01:52:10.440 See, that's like, that's how, how much men can get done. 0.66

01:52:13.260 And if they don't allow women into their spaces, they can go, we can conquer the world, 1.00

01:52:18.340 conquer the world.

01:52:19.760 Yeah.

01:52:20.320 Yeah.

01:52:20.500 The masons.

01:52:21.120 Exactly.

01:52:21.600 Well, you know, we look at these, these groups as nefarious.

01:52:25.640 Um, but, but, you know, the only way you even get to be nefarious is if you don't have women involved.

01:52:30.820 I think, you know, it has to start early, you know, I think especially middle school up, really,

01:52:35.680 we need to start really making this an option that's available, at least an option that's available

01:52:40.180 to like send your kids to an all boys school.

01:52:42.180 There should be all boys public schools.

01:52:43.800 I think there are a few of these.

01:52:44.820 I have some friends working on this, but, um, you know, there's a reason that, that they're

01:52:49.320 not because look at who controls the department of education and the kind of educational apparatus.

01:52:54.840 And they know the effect that having a mixed gender formation will have. 1.00

01:52:59.240 I mean, it's, it's just really, you don't develop those strong friendships.

01:53:02.340 You know, you, you're men don't want to compete against women. 0.99

01:53:05.400 They want to compete for women. 0.96

01:53:06.720 Right.

01:53:07.200 Dude, I have been in gyms where, uh, they've incorporated, you know, we've, we've had women 0.98

01:53:12.140 and, uh, and it's been like so confusing because I'm here to hurt you.

01:53:16.900 They I've, I've, I've sparred with women and it's like, what am I doing?

01:53:21.000 What am I supposed to do?

01:53:21.920 Then they hit you.

01:53:22.760 And you're like, yeah, I do.

01:53:24.620 Yeah.

01:53:24.920 Like she actually hit me pretty good.

01:53:26.420 Yeah.

01:53:26.720 Yeah.

01:53:26.980 And I beat your husband up.

01:53:28.580 Um, well, listen, we're, we're, we're coming up on the hour 50 mark.

01:53:32.220 We have another, uh, show to do in a little bit.

01:53:34.140 This has been a wonderful conversation.

01:53:36.160 Um, I don't know if we should, if we should, I think we did a pretty good job of almost black 1.00

01:53:43.040 pilling people a little bit, you know, just, just, just given the way that history goes

01:53:47.280 and, and, and where we are now, um, before we wrap it up, do you have any, any, uh, hope

01:53:54.280 for these things?

01:53:54.760 I know you said you're optimistic.

01:53:56.600 Could men's groups be an answer forward?

01:54:00.340 Do you see a way forward?

01:54:02.600 I think they're the answer, honestly.

01:54:05.300 And, uh, you know, I've, I've got my own that I'm kind of firing up.

01:54:08.620 I have other friends that are firing up other stuff.

01:54:10.720 There's, there's stuff out there, you know, you get together in person with other men and,

01:54:14.440 and, and while you're at it, study the greats together.

01:54:17.280 You know, like listen to my life of Julius Caesar.

01:54:19.560 If you're, you've piqued your interest or the life of Cato.

01:54:22.240 And I mean, there's all kinds of paradigms to get into and to discuss with your friends

01:54:26.520 and, uh, you know, have a beer together or, or, or have no beer and just like meet strictly

01:54:32.840 for the purpose of like men's fellowship.

01:54:34.600 We, we just totally lost that culture and we really need to bring it back. 1.00

01:54:37.840 That's interesting.

01:54:38.660 You know, if we, if we start doing that, people would say it's gay, but we should do that. 1.00

01:54:42.960 It's a psyop.

01:54:44.140 That's, that's why that kind of came on.

01:54:46.400 What are you, gay? 0.77

01:54:48.020 What are you, gay? 0.77

01:54:49.020 They know exactly how to kind of pry us, you know, that's, that's a powerful lever.

01:54:54.740 And you got to, and they're only showing us the, the ones that are gay. 0.93

01:54:57.180 I think that's why they screen each other's faces and they hug in puddles and stuff.

01:55:00.860 Yeah.

01:55:01.380 Not the people, the people who do like that.

01:55:03.400 There is something that's strange about dudes where they'll be like, what are you gay? 0.98

01:55:07.840 And then you'd be like, I don't know, you like slap your, your friend in the ass and be

01:55:10.640 like, yeah, I'm gay.

01:55:12.340 Like it's, there's something very manly about like almost the inversion of that.

01:55:16.840 It's like, all right, now let's talk about Julius Caesar.

01:55:20.200 Well, all right, let's, let's show off the website where, where people can find resources.

01:55:25.460 We have one more question.

01:55:26.540 Oh, that's right.

01:55:27.360 Very important question.

01:55:28.060 Maybe the most important question.

01:55:29.360 I guess I'm not get caught up in it.

01:55:31.360 Alex, this is something that we ask everybody at the close of the show.

01:55:34.380 And, uh, we always get fascinating answers.

01:55:36.780 Are you having fun?

01:55:41.300 I'm having a hell of a lot of fun.

01:55:43.380 I'm not also, you mean like now I'm having a hell of a lot of fun in life.

01:55:48.400 I mean like in your pursuits and the things that you're doing, the, what you are geared

01:55:53.140 towards.

01:55:54.360 It's, it's stressful.

01:55:56.000 I feel like I can never stop working, but I, I couldn't possibly be doing anything else

01:56:02.260 if I had the choice.

01:56:03.400 I'm having fun.

01:56:04.700 I gotta say.

01:56:05.460 That's awesome, man.

01:56:06.240 You guys seem like you're having fun too.

01:56:08.400 We are.

01:56:08.900 We got one black pill response recently where the guest was like fun, fun. 0.58

01:56:12.960 What do you mean?

01:56:13.420 What do you mean?

01:56:13.800 He got mad at us and he's like, I gotta go.

01:56:15.580 Have you seen the state of things?

01:56:16.180 And then he was like, I'm, I have to go now.

01:56:18.420 And I was like, that's crazy.

01:56:19.980 Uh, but mostly.

01:56:20.720 We're going to bring him around though.

01:56:21.680 We're going to bring him around.

01:56:22.480 You know what it is though, Alex?

01:56:23.460 Is he Russian?

01:56:24.280 The Russians hate fun. 1.00

01:56:24.820 No, he wasn't Russian.

01:56:25.860 He was just looking deep into the abyss.

01:56:28.660 Uh, yeah, yeah.

01:56:29.420 But we, we talked to people who are pursuing a thing that drives them.

01:56:34.380 And I think that that's the key.

01:56:36.520 If you're, if you're pursuing what you think that you're meant to be doing, then the, yeah,

01:56:41.200 you're having fun.

01:56:42.000 And so, yeah.

01:56:42.480 And that's, in that sentiment, we're also having fun.

01:56:44.400 Let's show off the website.

01:56:45.740 Alex, tell everybody where they can go to, to get a gander at your work.

01:56:49.860 Costofglory.com is my website.

01:56:51.840 I'm on Spotify, Costofglory, Apple Podcasts.

01:56:54.780 Also on YouTube, we, we started putting some documentary videos together, uh, over the,

01:56:59.920 over the audio at Costofglory on X.

01:57:02.660 So pretty easy to find.

01:57:05.220 Check, check it out.

01:57:06.900 Very cool.

01:57:07.580 Very cool.

01:57:07.960 I just threw you a follow, man.

01:57:09.560 Guys, go follow him.

01:57:11.000 Uh, more masculine.

01:57:12.900 Great work.

01:57:13.400 Alex, thank you again for, uh, coming on the show.

01:57:16.040 And, uh, we'll wrap it up, right?

01:57:18.320 Anything else to say?

01:57:19.160 A lot of words.

01:57:19.920 Men's, men's groups aren't gay.

01:57:21.260 Unless they're gay. 0.99

01:57:21.960 This was totally not gay. 0.95

01:57:23.560 Yeah.

01:57:23.740 Unless they're actually gay. 0.93

01:57:25.360 Cause they're, those exist too, but don't, you know, scrutinize them.

01:57:28.960 Make sure you know what they're about.

01:57:30.440 All right, guys.

01:57:31.140 Until next time.

01:57:32.280 Don't forget to obey, submit, and complain.

01:57:46.040 You can persuade us that what they see with their eyes is what there is to see.

01:57:51.780 You know?

01:57:53.120 Because they'll laugh in the face of an explanation that portrays the bigger picture of what's going on.

01:57:59.780 And they have.

01:58:01.260 Oh, yeah.

01:58:02.040 Oh, yeah.

01:58:03.260 Oh, yeah.

01:58:03.960 Oh, yeah.

01:58:04.000 Oh, yeah.

01:58:04.440 Oh, yeah.

01:58:04.860 Oh, God.

01:58:05.480 Oh, yeah.

01:58:06.680 Oh, yeah.

01:58:08.020 Oh, yeah.

01:58:08.740 Oh, yeah.

01:58:09.100 Oh, yeah.

01:58:09.520 Oh, yeah.

01:58:09.720 Oh, yeah.

01:58:10.860 Oh, yeah.

01:58:11.780 Oh, yeah.

01:58:11.840 Oh, yeah.

01:58:12.840 Oh, yeah.

01:58:13.680 Oh, yeah.

01:58:14.480 Oh, yeah.

01:58:15.140 Oh, yeah.

01:58:15.320 Oh, yeah.

01:58:16.320 Oh, yeah.

01:58:17.440 Oh, yeah.

01:58:18.360 Oh, yeah.

01:58:19.460 Oh, yeah.

01:58:20.380 Oh, shit.

01:58:22.100 Oh, yeah.

01:58:22.360 Oh, yeah.

01:58:22.540 Oh, yeah.

01:58:23.960 Oh, yeah.

01:58:24.640 Oh, yeah.

01:58:25.600 Oh, yeah.

01:58:26.820 Oh, yeah.

01:58:27.360 Oh, yeah.

01:58:27.840 Oh, yeah.

01:58:28.660 Oh, yeah.

Nephilim Death Squad - September 23, 2025

221： Ancient Archetypes to Fix Modern Men w⧸ Alex Petkas (Cost of Glory)

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