Nephilim Death Squad - The Relational Universe w⧸ Douglas Hamp

00:00:00.000 Let's do stuff.

00:00:01.920 Top Lobson Productions.

00:00:30.000 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad.

00:00:57.040 I am David Lee Corbo, a.k.a. The Raven.

00:00:59.300 And that is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation.

00:01:02.460 We're also joined by Matt Heppner, owner of the Standard Coffee Shop and host of Straight Bible, Merchant of Brown Water.

00:01:11.140 Very happy to have you, Matt.

00:01:12.100 How are you feeling?

00:01:12.880 Feeling good.

00:01:13.400 Happy to be here.

00:01:14.200 All right.

00:01:14.680 Very good.

00:01:15.040 Let's do the plugs. 0.97

00:01:15.720 This is disrespectful.

00:01:16.380 All right.

00:01:16.620 Fine.

00:01:16.900 Before we get into today's episode, a little bit of a reminder.

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00:01:32.220 That is really happening?

00:01:33.640 That is really happening.

00:01:34.700 We're in talks right now.

00:01:36.280 Thanks to Matt.

00:01:36.840 Thank you for the help in figuring out the venue.

00:01:39.860 We had a bit of a venue issue.

00:01:41.360 That's getting rectified.

00:01:42.340 Looks like now we're shooting for early June.

00:01:44.800 I just wanted everybody to be able to swim.

00:01:46.880 June in Florida.

00:01:47.980 We're going to have access to a pool.

00:01:49.140 Those tickets will be available at toplopsa.com.

00:01:51.640 You can go there, buy t-shirts.

00:01:53.820 And when...

00:01:54.800 All right.

00:01:55.720 You know I'm not doing this right now.

00:01:56.960 Dan Puccino.

00:01:58.240 Very excited to introduce our guest today, Dr. Douglas Hamp, author, speaker.

00:02:05.540 Christian, for a long time in the space.

00:02:06.960 How are you doing, man?

00:02:08.080 Hey.

00:02:08.440 It's great to see you guys.

00:02:09.420 Thanks for having me.

00:02:10.660 Well, thanks for coming.

00:02:11.480 And before we get into this discussion, let's let the audience know where they can find

00:02:15.420 your work, where they can find your books, and what you're all about.

00:02:18.800 Yes.

00:02:19.180 You can find me at douglashamp.com.

00:02:21.220 Also on Amazon, I have about 15 books there.

00:02:25.280 So you can check out that, my author page, et cetera.

00:02:28.780 I'm in Denver, Colorado.

00:02:30.860 I lead a small congregation out here in Lakewood, to be specific.

00:02:35.480 So if anybody is out here, please come and say hello.

00:02:39.220 I'd love to meet everybody.

00:02:41.480 And yeah, I've been a lifelong Christian.

00:02:44.180 I have just loved studying God's word.

00:02:47.620 I don't probably, oh, a number of years ago, I really dug deep into the Nephilim, and I

00:02:53.320 wrote three books on that, Corrupting the Image 1, 2, and 3.

00:02:57.880 Tons of fun.

00:02:58.960 Love it.

00:03:00.120 But man, there's so much in the Bible.

00:03:01.860 There's just so many gems that are exciting to dig into.

00:03:06.180 And I'm really excited about this one that I feel like the Lord has been putting on my

00:03:10.820 heart for at least 10 plus years.

00:03:13.360 So it's pretty exciting to be able to finally share this.

00:03:16.780 Yeah, it's great.

00:03:17.640 When I initially reached out to you, I know you saw the name of the show.

00:03:20.280 You're like, Nephilim Death Squad. 0.88

00:03:21.240 And if an email could read an exasperated sigh, and I get it too, because people often see

00:03:31.180 your body work, and they call you, and they'd be like, so for us, I guess we're the Nephilim

00:03:34.940 guys now. 0.91

00:03:35.800 Well, I would say we're more aptly the crazy people in the community.

00:03:39.660 But they call you to do a certain dance.

00:03:41.420 And you were like, I'm actually looking into something more interesting now.

00:03:44.500 Can I talk about it?

00:03:45.300 I'm like, yeah, that would be...

00:03:46.660 Well, I don't want to get straight into that.

00:03:48.820 I wanted to ask, because we were...

00:03:49.840 You're going to make them do the dance? 0.93

00:03:50.720 Not the whole dance.

00:03:51.920 But I am curious about this idea of corrupting the image.

00:03:57.480 Can you just give me a brief overview?

00:03:59.000 What are people getting into with those three books?

00:04:02.700 Well, let's see.

00:04:04.260 So I first wrote my first volume of that back in 2011.

00:04:09.160 And I dealt with Genesis 315.

00:04:12.460 That was a text that kept coming to my attention.

00:04:15.980 And I thought, wait a second.

00:04:17.060 There's something going on here, right?

00:04:18.860 God says, I will cause enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed. 1.00

00:04:25.600 He will crush your head and you will strike his heel. 0.97

00:04:28.140 And I kept thinking, okay, so if her seed refers to Messiah, that's how it's been traditionally 0.86

00:04:34.560 interpreted throughout the church age.

00:04:37.740 Who in the world is your seed, right?

00:04:40.700 And I kept thinking, this is pretty weird stuff, right?

00:04:43.520 And then you flip over to Genesis 6, right?

00:04:46.300 And you have, in the days that men began to walk in the face of the earth, that daughters

00:04:50.700 were born to them.

00:04:51.640 And the sons of God, hmm, they came and they took them and begot these Nephilim. 0.99

00:04:58.460 Okay, something weird is going on here.

00:05:00.680 And a lot of it, I had to let go of my own presuppositions or what I had either kind of heard

00:05:07.560 growing up or not really heard or just ideas like, is this really in the Bible?

00:05:12.200 This is really weird stuff, right?

00:05:13.700 And I started thinking also about what Jesus said, that as it was in the days of Noah, so

00:05:19.020 it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

00:05:21.060 I thought, oh my goodness, wait a second.

00:05:23.200 You know, and then you start putting things together.

00:05:24.740 You start hearing about Ray Kurzweil.

00:05:26.280 He's talking about humanity 2.0 and transhumanism.

00:05:29.760 And, you know, they're projecting by 2045, humanity will be humanity 2.0, that we will

00:05:36.220 have transcended the limitations of this.

00:05:39.500 People are talking about that right now in the context of AI and AI is really cool, but

00:05:44.720 it's not going to be something transformative to the human essence, okay?

00:05:49.920 I mean, it's going to change our lives for sure, but it's not going to change our form.

00:05:54.280 And so the title Corrupting the Image just kept coming into my brain because I'm like,

00:05:59.760 I think what Satan was trying to do is to destroy the image of God that God planted

00:06:06.420 within us.

00:06:07.480 And if he could do that, then he could keep the seed, the promised seed that was going

00:06:12.460 to step on his head, he could keep them from coming.

00:06:15.700 And I think that was the basic plan.

00:06:18.080 And obviously he failed, the seed came, Satan fell right into the trap, of course, but, you

00:06:24.420 know, he certainly gave it a college effort.

00:06:26.160 We have to give him, you know, credit for that.

00:06:27.660 And if that worked so well, you know, let's face it, only eight people made it out alive

00:06:35.160 before the flood.

00:06:37.060 And that's, yeah, I mean, that's pretty impressive, right?

00:06:40.100 I mean, Satan was like 99.99% successful, except he wasn't.

00:06:45.100 And it's a pretty good strategy.

00:06:47.660 And I think he's going to use that same basic hand at the end times as well.

00:06:53.580 I think the mark of the beast will essentially be a genetic transformation.

00:06:58.820 It will, the whole idea will be to change who you are, to upgrade to humanity 2.0.

00:07:06.000 And I'm actually working on another book series called Immortal Dawn, and I'm talking about

00:07:12.660 some of the mechanisms that will be behind that, the two witnesses, how I think they will

00:07:17.740 come as sort of, they'll be viewed as hostile aliens who are trying to take away our way

00:07:24.560 of life.

00:07:25.440 And so the world rallied together.

00:07:27.700 The Antichrist shows up on the scene and says, I've got a solution.

00:07:30.980 And everyone says, yay.

00:07:32.860 And that's when they all upgrade to becoming a god.

00:07:36.480 And they think that they can actually stop the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords from coming

00:07:40.340 back and taking his world.

00:07:43.240 And this is the strong delusion.

00:07:45.000 So in a nutshell, that's kind of my corrupting.

00:07:47.340 That was a great way of summarizing that.

00:07:49.720 Yeah.

00:07:50.160 Didn't take 45 minutes.

00:07:51.440 No.

00:07:51.840 It actually brought a thought to my head.

00:07:55.380 We were reviewing the Age of Disclosure documentary and some of the criticisms that,

00:08:00.980 the people on there were giving were the idea of this Collins elite that would be suppressing

00:08:06.420 disclosure, but they're saying that they're going to be getting in the way of progress.

00:08:09.840 And the idea of the two witnesses that would come and, in a sense, how you kind of mentioned

00:08:15.960 get in the way of progress.

00:08:17.740 Because this alien technology that will probably be given to us and presented to us will advance

00:08:22.140 humanity, but it's of a fallen nature.

00:08:26.020 And it's probably something we shouldn't be tampering with.

00:08:28.760 And they will be looked at as the bad guy.

00:08:31.040 So it's kind of interesting to see that narrative turned and starting to flesh out right now

00:08:36.340 between the Spielberg movie, between that documentary and other things going on in the world.

00:08:40.960 Well, we see this again and again, don't we?

00:08:42.360 We see in all of these alien movies, whether it's Avengers or the Eternals, you name it.

00:08:49.660 It's some hostile force that comes from our universe or outside our universe, trans-dimensionally,

00:08:56.860 inter-dimensionally, and they're coming and they're going to threaten our way of life.

00:09:00.960 And then the Avengers or all the heroes of planet Earth rally together and we're able

00:09:05.900 to push them back.

00:09:07.360 That's the basic storyline.

00:09:09.220 In Marvel's Eternals, which didn't do so well at the box office, it was an okay movie.

00:09:15.340 But the whole basic idea is that the gods of old are actually the guardians of the planet.

00:09:22.260 And they're basically supposed to be quiet and not interfere with humanity unless something

00:09:28.500 existential happens.

00:09:30.620 And that's what happens in the movie.

00:09:32.340 And then they rally together to fight against the gods, actually, the bigger gods.

00:09:38.240 That's basically their call is like, we've got to save humanity.

00:09:40.900 I mean, this playbook has already been played.

00:09:45.120 And I think when the two witnesses come, I think they're going to be the catalyst that

00:09:50.700 will sort of get the tribulation started, if you will.

00:09:55.500 And here's the thing.

00:09:56.520 This is kind of where I've taken a turn.

00:09:59.220 I was raised on this idea that the book of Revelation is God pouring out his wrath on

00:10:05.360 a Christ-rejecting world. 0.97

00:10:06.560 Essentially, you know, translation, God loses his temper, he's ticked off, and he's finally

00:10:12.020 going to let the world have it.

00:10:13.720 That's what I was basically taught.

00:10:15.880 And, you know, it was exciting.

00:10:17.200 I was like, wow, this is really cool.

00:10:18.900 You know, God is the ultimate tough dude.

00:10:21.480 But I begin to see a very different lens.

00:10:23.540 And I see the two witnesses coming as the last chapter of a love story.

00:10:29.540 This is where God is wanting to rescue humanity from darkness, rescue us from slavery.

00:10:36.560 Remember back in 2010, the Chilean miners that got stuck, you know, 2,000 feet on the ground.

00:10:42.140 We're kind of like the Chilean miners, okay?

00:10:44.460 And we've been living in the darkness for ages now.

00:10:47.520 And we've gotten used to it.

00:10:48.800 And we think it's okay.

00:10:50.260 And, you know, some dude named Satan basically rose up and is kind of, he's been playing the

00:10:55.760 system.

00:10:56.140 And we're like, okay.

00:10:57.060 And as long as we toe the line, you know, we have an okay existence.

00:11:01.340 And we think this is normal.

00:11:03.840 That's the thing.

00:11:04.480 We think it's normal.

00:11:05.560 And God is up there digging, trying to get us out.

00:11:09.560 And when he finally sends an emissary, we say, no, we're pretty happy down here.

00:11:13.760 We like our way of life.

00:11:15.380 And he's like, no, no, I really want to take you back up to the light.

00:11:18.640 And we said, no, we got it pretty good down here.

00:11:21.540 And of course, the boss, Satan says, well, you guys don't want to go anywhere.

00:11:26.300 This is the greatest thing you can ever imagine.

00:11:28.220 Of course, he's going to say that because he wants to hold on to his kingdom.

00:11:32.580 This is the only kingdom he's ever going to have.

00:11:35.100 Once God comes and the light begins to shine, the darkness has no place for it.

00:11:39.760 So this is God wanting to rescue us from that darkness, from the slavery, things that we don't

00:11:46.260 even realize that we're kind of living in.

00:11:50.240 Doug, do you have a thought on who the two witnesses are?

00:11:53.020 Do you have a theory on that?

00:11:53.820 Is it us?

00:11:54.740 Is it me and Dave?

00:11:56.260 Please get out of here.

00:11:57.320 Don't put that on us.

00:11:58.600 And we don't have a strong opinion on it either way.

00:12:00.660 So it's not like you're going to step into it.

00:12:03.200 Well, you know, somebody just texted me.

00:12:05.140 He told me he knows exactly who the two witnesses are.

00:12:07.620 Turns out it's Donald Trump and Netanyahu.

00:12:10.340 I was like, OK, that's a different one.

00:12:15.280 No, I definitely don't think it's those guys.

00:12:16.820 But I think it's going to be Moses and Elijah.

00:12:18.880 I think when you look at what the Jews were expecting, they were fully expecting Moses 1.00

00:12:24.680 and Elijah to come back before the great day of the Lord.

00:12:30.300 If you look at the the plagues that the two witnesses are going to bring, they're going

00:12:35.040 to turn water to blood.

00:12:36.600 I mean, that's signature Moses, right?

00:12:38.740 They stop it from raining for three and a half years.

00:12:40.960 That's signature Elijah.

00:12:42.840 They can call fire down from heaven.

00:12:45.180 That's Elijah.

00:12:46.480 I mean, it sounds like Elijah.

00:12:48.180 And one of them definitely has to be Elijah, because we're told in Malachi that Elijah

00:12:51.960 will come before the great day of the Lord.

00:12:54.500 And here's the thing on the Mount of Transfiguration, which in my books I show is actually Mount Hermon.

00:13:01.540 That is where Moses and Elijah showed up.

00:13:05.040 Right.

00:13:05.540 And here's the deal.

00:13:07.040 I think Jesus is so clever. 0.81

00:13:09.100 I think he made Satan pee his pants.

00:13:11.000 Basically, he you know, Satan knew he knew the scriptures.

00:13:14.060 He knew Psalm 68, that it talks about Bashan, the mountain of the Lord, that that ten thousands

00:13:20.220 of his chariots will come from that place.

00:13:23.360 And so when he saw Jesus up there doing the transfiguration thing and Moses and Elijah show 0.82

00:13:28.480 up, he's thinking, oh, my goodness, is that today?

00:13:30.680 Is this the beginning of the day of the Lord?

00:13:32.960 Those guys have showed up.

00:13:34.860 Oh, my goodness.

00:13:35.680 I didn't realize.

00:13:36.480 And he puts it into high gear.

00:13:37.660 He then goes and possesses Judas. 0.54

00:13:39.940 He's at the very Passover Seder that Jesus is having with his disciples.

00:13:45.640 And that's when he betrays Jesus.

00:13:47.980 And, you know, he says, get what you must do.

00:13:50.560 Go quick, you know, do quickly.

00:13:52.000 And and then he arranges to have Jesus put on the cross.

00:13:55.780 And, you know, Satan falls into his own trap.

00:13:58.240 It's crazy.

00:13:58.760 But this was this was basically this is kind of like a false flag.

00:14:07.120 You know, it's interesting.

00:14:07.860 In World War Two, before the invasion on D-Day at Normandy Beach, the Germans could not decide

00:14:15.700 where exactly the allies were going to invade.

00:14:19.600 But they had been listening to all these reports by the allies who said that they were going

00:14:24.180 to land at Pas-de-Calais.

00:14:25.340 And they just kept this up and they even had inflatable tanks that were positioned in the

00:14:32.000 the northwest side of of England so that it would look like that they were going to strike

00:14:38.440 at Pas-de-Calais.

00:14:39.980 But it turns out, of course, that they landed at Normandy Beach on what we call D-Day.

00:14:45.920 And it was it was a ruse.

00:14:48.240 And I think that's what Jesus did is he had a ruse.

00:14:51.140 He had Moses and Elijah show up and say, oh, my goodness, this is crazy.

00:14:57.040 This is it.

00:14:59.000 Well, that's that's one of the, I guess, prevailing theories.

00:15:03.160 And that seems to be one that most people are comfortable with the Elijah and Moses angle.

00:15:07.960 I wanted to go back.

00:15:08.740 I just wonder I wonder what they look like.

00:15:10.860 Like, I don't know.

00:15:12.300 We depict them as dudes with robes and and sandals.

00:15:15.300 And also in this day and age, like they're going to have to gain some sort of immense

00:15:19.820 popularity, maybe through a podcast of some type.

00:15:22.520 But they're going to have to be seen by everybody.

00:15:24.280 Maybe NDS.

00:15:25.260 I mean, I would imagine they would be out in the streets preaching in such a crazy way

00:15:29.620 that they would go viral.

00:15:30.860 Right.

00:15:31.160 And that would see that everywhere.

00:15:33.360 The word is viral.

00:15:34.440 Yeah.

00:15:34.620 That's how people are.

00:15:35.520 We're going to be looking at it like this, which is very jarring.

00:15:39.700 It's the first time in history that that could happen.

00:15:41.780 Right.

00:15:42.060 That a thing that's taking place, if there are these two guys that are preaching the

00:15:45.580 word of God and they're warning people that this would reach, you know, the entire world,

00:15:51.240 the entire world.

00:15:52.600 And, you know, that actually goes along with what I was going to say is we're in these

00:15:56.500 unprecedented times. 1.00

00:15:58.040 How stupid would it be if they had a podcast? 1.00

00:15:59.880 That would be a little disappointing. 1.00

00:16:01.220 They would.

00:16:01.580 They talk.

00:16:02.380 They would.

00:16:02.940 And they're just sitting there.

00:16:03.760 Think of the crowds that Jesus gathered from all the surrounding areas with no social media.

00:16:08.240 Yeah.

00:16:08.420 Like, I mean.

00:16:09.100 That's what I'm saying.

00:16:09.640 And so now it would be, you know, it would be it would be insane.

00:16:12.540 But, you know, earlier we were talking about this idea of corrupting the image and basically

00:16:17.220 transhumanism and Ray Kurzweil and all these different things.

00:16:20.700 It's it is worth mentioning.

00:16:23.180 We're sitting in this place where for the first time in history, I mean, it does seem

00:16:27.820 a lot of these things have happened before as far as like the repetition of Satan's plan

00:16:30.980 and things like that.

00:16:31.700 But we're looking at this potential disclosure.

00:16:36.200 The governments are gearing up to do this thing.

00:16:39.320 Documentaries are coming out.

00:16:40.300 Spielberg's coming out with another movie.

00:16:42.360 There's orbs in the skies over New Jersey only, you know, however long ago.

00:16:47.260 And you couple that with, you know, we have Neuralink right now.

00:16:51.640 And it's it's crossed the threshold of human test, human beta testing.

00:16:56.420 And, you know, how long until this is started to roll out at scale?

00:17:00.520 How long until we see the first person who has some, you know, massive ailment that's

00:17:06.000 rectified by Neuralink as an implant?

00:17:09.260 And then they're paraded around as as, you know, a modern day miracle.

00:17:13.020 And we're really sitting in this time where transhumanism, the corruption of whether it's 0.99

00:17:18.140 the human genome or the fundamental changing of what man is, is right there.

00:17:22.920 And the introduction of some species that, you know, you can only wildly speculate as to

00:17:28.540 what the nature of it is, is also right here.

00:17:30.960 I mean, it's it's just remarkable.

00:17:32.860 People have mused about this for a long time and they've gone through these texts and they've

00:17:38.280 wondered what could this mean?

00:17:40.440 And all of a sudden we're sitting here in this place where like.

00:17:43.020 We have a pretty good idea of what it could mean.

00:17:44.920 And in fact, it's right on the horizon.

00:17:46.280 It could be here in short order, a year, two years from now, we might be seeing Neuralink

00:17:51.420 rolled out.

00:17:51.860 You might know somebody with it in five years.

00:17:56.680 Yeah, you know, I think that's all of the amazing backdrop that we have to apply when we

00:18:02.860 come to Revelation chapter 11, talking about the two witnesses, because they're not just

00:18:07.560 they're not coming into an ancient world.

00:18:09.100 They're coming into a very, very modern, high tech, you know, transhumanist.

00:18:14.240 We haven't quite arrived, but we're on the path, that kind of world.

00:18:18.380 And they're going to come.

00:18:19.700 Look, we know what their basic message is because they're clothed in sackcloth.

00:18:24.240 The sackcloth was a sign of repentance.

00:18:26.580 It was a sign of humility.

00:18:28.880 This is basically God saying, hey, I'm coming world.

00:18:33.780 You need to come back to me, repent, you know, turn from your evil ways because the king is

00:18:39.240 coming.

00:18:40.000 That's the basic message.

00:18:41.640 And the world may not take notice at first.

00:18:44.820 However, they come armed with power.

00:18:47.860 They come armed with signs.

00:18:49.560 And so they cannot be ignored.

00:18:52.000 We know they're not going to be ignored because when they're finally killed, all the whole 0.92

00:18:56.960 world is going to rejoice. 0.98

00:18:59.240 These guys were basically cosmic terrorists.

00:19:03.020 I mean, think about it.

00:19:04.140 If you stop it from raining for three and a half years, let's just think about this logically

00:19:08.540 for a second.

00:19:09.660 If we don't have rain for three and a half years globally, that's going to stop it from

00:19:14.560 raining.

00:19:14.900 Oh, yeah.

00:19:15.220 And then when it doesn't rain, guess what?

00:19:16.900 Crops don't grow.

00:19:18.300 Forest fires happen.

00:19:19.520 We're told that a third of the trees are going to be burned up, right?

00:19:23.020 That's all right there in the text.

00:19:25.420 And and, you know, the shipping lines are going to be disrupted massively and all kinds

00:19:30.280 of stuff.

00:19:31.040 And it's going to raise prices through the roof.

00:19:34.040 So when these two guys who had the power over these plagues are finally done in the world

00:19:40.940 can't stop partying because they were definitely in their faces.

00:19:45.540 I doubt they're going to have a blog.

00:19:46.960 I have this other guy who's writing to me and he's telling me that he's actually the

00:19:50.480 Antichrist and he's going to start a blog.

00:19:52.220 And I'm like, I'm like, dude, if you're the Antichrist, why do you need a blog?

00:19:55.700 Like, just go do your thing.

00:19:57.640 But I get some weird people write to me and others tell me they're Nephilim.

00:20:01.820 And I'm like, I don't think so.

00:20:03.600 But I get the same thing.

00:20:04.660 And I'm this show.

00:20:05.960 It's, you know, you draw a fascinating crowd.

00:20:08.140 But you top you were kind of alluding to before this idea that there would be Christians

00:20:12.260 who stood in the way of progress.

00:20:13.580 If all these things truly are happening and there does seem to be some prospect, let's

00:20:19.580 say, of we're just going to use the terminology alien technologies, for lack of a better description

00:20:26.740 as to what these entities actually are.

00:20:29.300 Let's say there's promising technologies that these things can offer us to rectify all the

00:20:33.920 horrifying situations that we're in economically and, you know, as far as food sources and

00:20:39.840 all these things, war, you name it.

00:20:42.860 And there are Christians that are standing in the way of it. 1.00

00:20:44.840 And there are two really loud ones who are standing in the way of it.

00:20:48.540 Yeah, I could see the whole world celebrating their deaths when they're finally martyred.

00:20:54.120 You know, it's just something that I noticed, Top said it earlier, within this documentary

00:20:59.120 Age of Disclosure, just as alluding to an old guard of Christians, you know, we kind

00:21:05.380 of suspect they're talking about a Collins elite.

00:21:07.160 But just in the documentary, they just said people who are in the Pentagon who are stifling

00:21:12.060 progress by labeling these alien entities demons or devils.

00:21:17.420 And who else is doing that but Christians, right? 1.00

00:21:20.300 I mean, so they're not so specific, but you can kind of put two and two together.

00:21:26.660 And I just think if a time ever does come where we're really making progress and there's

00:21:31.220 these promising technologies and Christians are standing in the way, that would really 1.00

00:21:36.660 help the world turn their back on Christ, Christians, the church, all of that.

00:21:43.040 Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:44.940 Yeah, I mean, I think, ooh, I mean, the whole thing about alien disclosure is, I think we basically

00:21:52.000 had it, you know, I think when in 2017, Luis Elizondo, he, yeah, you know, he was, I forget

00:22:03.060 the, some really weird name of a department that he was over, but basically it was the,

00:22:07.900 you know, UFO department.

00:22:09.700 A-Tip.

00:22:10.240 That's what it is.

00:22:10.740 Thank you.

00:22:11.220 Yeah, A-Tip.

00:22:11.720 And, you know, and then because of that, we had the release of the 2004 Navy pilots who

00:22:19.320 were chasing that tic-tac kind of thing.

00:22:22.780 And I mean, that was huge.

00:22:24.740 That was, you know, I think that was basically the disclosure of the U.S.

00:22:28.220 government saying, yep, it's real.

00:22:29.520 Here you go.

00:22:30.460 You know, Barack Obama said, yep, there's really something out there, whatever you think

00:22:34.400 about him.

00:22:34.880 But still, you know, I think he was totally legit in saying that there's stuff that we

00:22:39.380 don't know where it comes from.

00:22:41.860 And I mean, these are, these are earth-shaking kinds of revelations.

00:22:47.680 And because we have so much media, I think we can't even filter it fast enough as to like

00:22:53.180 what these things really mean.

00:22:54.720 But I think we are not far, or maybe I should say this, is that when something does happen,

00:23:01.240 I don't think it's going to really phase the world.

00:23:02.980 I think this has been part of Satan's backdrop.

00:23:06.060 Look, he doesn't know when God is going to pull up the curtain.

00:23:08.440 He doesn't know when he's going to, when God is going to break that first seal and the

00:23:13.100 party gets started, but he can certainly set the stage.

00:23:16.160 And I think that is what he's been doing for the last 70, 80 years, starting with the

00:23:21.100 Foo Fighters back in World War II, which then became Flying Saucers and then became, you

00:23:26.000 know, Alien Spacecraft and all these other various names that we have, UFOs, you know, and

00:23:31.620 now they're UAPs, right?

00:23:33.700 So the terminology changes, but it's the same basic stuff.

00:23:38.000 And there have been many UFO researchers who have suggested that these are far less like

00:23:44.980 extraterrestrials and far more like interdimensionals.

00:23:48.960 And they match up with what sacred texts would call demons.

00:23:56.480 You know, so this isn't just the Christians who are noticing this, but this is a lot of 0.96

00:24:02.140 people understand that.

00:24:03.520 In fact, in Corrupting the Image Volume 1, I talk about Dr. David Jacobs from Temple University

00:24:10.580 who had done about 200 and so hypnotic regressions with people who claim to have been abducted

00:24:18.500 by aliens.

00:24:19.460 I mean, really weird stuff, right?

00:24:21.040 However, what's so crazy about it is they all had the same basic kind of story that they

00:24:28.580 were taken against their will.

00:24:30.060 They were in some kind of a room, either sperm or egg was taken.

00:24:34.560 And people, these ET things looked into their eyes and kind of read their minds, you know,

00:24:41.920 and then they were put back.

00:24:43.180 And he says that for a long time, he was very, very excited about this.

00:24:47.300 This was, you know, this close encounter with this other kind.

00:24:50.980 And he saw, you know, rainbows and unicorns on the horizon.

00:24:54.980 But after studying it long enough, he began to have a sense of dread because he realized that

00:25:01.460 in this other world, these ET beings would be the masters and we humans would be the slaves. 0.99

00:25:09.560 He talks about there are some kind of a semi-dimensional, semi-transparent, semi, you know, embodiment

00:25:18.640 kind of being that needs us sort of as the hosts so that they can fully materialize.

00:25:26.000 And, and he began to put two and two together and he's like, oh my goodness, this is, this

00:25:32.020 is not good at all.

00:25:34.440 You know, Dr. Mack, who was at Harvard university, you know, he also did hypnotic regression.

00:25:40.220 So between these two of the two of them, they had hundreds and hundreds of cases of hypnotic

00:25:45.520 regressions of where people are all basically saying the same kind of thing that we are going

00:25:49.900 to be the serfs, these extraterrestrials or interdimensionals are going to be the masters.

00:25:55.100 And we're going to, we're going to somehow fuse to become some kind of a hybrid race, you 0.98

00:26:01.420 know?

00:26:01.600 And when you read that in these secular journals, you read it in the, from the secular researchers,

00:26:07.620 you're like, hmm, okay, this isn't just the Bible that's talking about really weird stuff.

00:26:13.600 This is now happening in academia.

00:26:16.960 It's being tested.

00:26:18.380 It's being researched and they're coming to basically the same kinds of conclusions that

00:26:27.120 we would maybe from an opposite angle, but it's the same basic data.

00:26:31.960 And I think the Bible, so it's God's word, of course, but what's so beautiful about the

00:26:36.460 Bible is the Bible just lays it out.

00:26:38.840 The Bible cuts through all the jargon, it cuts through all the BS and it tells you, no,

00:26:43.720 no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:26:44.720 What looks really good is actually a bad deal.

00:26:48.760 And here's the hard truth of it.

00:26:52.160 And sadly, the world is going to fall into it.

00:26:54.340 The Bible calls it a covenant of death that we are going to enter into.

00:26:59.800 And we were going to do it thinking that we're actually saving ourselves, that we're, we're

00:27:04.280 avoiding pain by signing up with the devil.

00:27:07.400 He won't call himself the devil, of course, but you know, he'll probably call himself Enlil,

00:27:12.360 an ancient God from, you know, ancient times.

00:27:15.000 I think that, that the belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will actually go

00:27:20.060 up in the end times, that people will believe in Jesus, but with one major caveat, it won't

00:27:26.040 be God almighty creator of heaven and earth.

00:27:28.960 No, no, no, no.

00:27:29.760 It'll be, yes.

00:27:31.120 You know, that Jehovah God from the Bible. 0.58

00:27:33.960 Yeah, he's real, but he's an ancient alien.

00:27:36.260 He's powerful, but he's not all powerful.

00:27:38.620 He's just an advanced, evolved being, and you can be evolved too.

00:27:45.880 You can have that same kind of God upgrade.

00:27:49.600 Just follow me and I'll make this, this upgrade available.

00:27:53.440 If you just take this little mark, I will grant you that same thing.

00:27:57.780 And that's what I think the mark of the beast is, is it's humanity, not wanting to check

00:28:02.620 out from Walmart faster, but it's, it's actually a fundamental genetic transformation of the

00:28:09.240 person so that they're taking on Satan's DNA and incorporating it into themselves.

00:28:15.840 Now, I know some listeners just said, what Satan has DNA.

00:28:18.740 Well, I didn't know that.

00:28:19.720 Well, just follow the word, right?

00:28:21.600 If it says in Genesis 3, 15, I will cause enmity between your seed and her seed.

00:28:28.860 Well, there you go.

00:28:31.140 And in Crypto Image Volume 1, this stuff blew my mind.

00:28:34.920 Okay.

00:28:35.600 I, I, cause I kept thinking, I'm like, what is a seed?

00:28:37.820 Like what really is a seed?

00:28:39.100 I'm thinking about watermelon seeds and sunflower seeds.

00:28:42.020 And so you get, you take off the, the husk, you get down to the kernel, what's inside the

00:28:46.640 kernel.

00:28:47.100 Well, then you get down to chromosomes and then genes and you get down to DNA and DNA, of course,

00:28:53.240 of the double helix.

00:28:54.280 You've got four nucleic acids, AGT and C, and you're like, okay, what's beyond that?

00:29:01.200 And this is where it gets amazing because beyond that is information and information is a non-material

00:29:10.720 entity that requires a physical medium.

00:29:13.840 Mind blown.

00:29:14.860 Okay.

00:29:15.160 This is my mind blown at this point because I'm like, wait a second.

00:29:18.380 So inside of a seed is information.

00:29:22.460 It's the, it's the software that is making the thing work.

00:29:27.380 It's not so much the hardware that's important, but I mean, you have to have the hardware, but,

00:29:33.320 but you know, what is a chalkboard without the chalk written on it and just not random chalk or a whiteboard

00:29:39.060 with a marker.

00:29:39.980 It has to be in a particular order.

00:29:41.920 And when you have the arrangement of, of that ink on the whiteboard in a particular order, you have

00:29:47.980 something called information.

00:29:50.120 Wow.

00:29:50.520 Right.

00:29:50.880 But the information is not the marker.

00:29:53.700 It's the marker is simply storing.

00:29:56.120 It's arranging the information.

00:29:58.320 That's what's so amazing about it.

00:29:59.800 And once I understood that, I understood how something that's not physical, not earthly,

00:30:06.580 such as Satan or the other demons and humanity could actually merge together.

00:30:12.780 Because once you are able to, to trans transcribe the information into an earthly medium, well,

00:30:21.520 you're good to go.

00:30:22.180 And in fact, they've been able to do this.

00:30:25.140 They've been able to create a DNA printer so that you could take someone's DNA, you could

00:30:31.040 email it to somebody.

00:30:32.420 And if they have a DNA printer at the other end, they can print it up.

00:30:36.740 They just use sugar, often coming from some kind of a corn, corn substance and print out

00:30:44.760 the DNA.

00:30:45.520 I mean, it's crazy, right?

00:30:47.560 This is like CRISPR, right?

00:30:49.160 Yeah.

00:30:50.400 Yep.

00:30:50.840 So, Douglas, this is very interesting because, I mean, we're coming off the heels of a somewhat

00:30:57.420 of a debate where we butted heads about all of these ideas, the nature of, if there is

00:31:03.280 even a spiritual realm, if there is physical consistency to these entities that we're talking

00:31:08.240 about, how they interact with us, what is symbolic, what is not symbolic.

00:31:12.180 I tend to agree with everything that you just said right there.

00:31:14.800 But I'm also noticing why in your books you went from, okay, like, you know, the seed war

00:31:22.420 to the Nephilim.

00:31:24.240 And then you go, wait a second, all this stuff is completely related.

00:31:28.060 So if you're saying that Satan has genes that are compatible, not just compatible, but similar

00:31:35.380 to ours in such a way that they could be implanted in a human woman and then recreate a giant or

00:31:41.140 whatever, whatever, we are compatible in a weird way.

00:31:44.980 That goes to, I don't know, some theories about angels being the older brother race of

00:31:50.840 human beings and things like that.

00:31:52.700 But how do you now view this world, the relational universe?

00:31:58.440 And what do you mean by universe?

00:31:59.380 Do you mean like outer space?

00:32:00.360 Or do you mean like interdimensional universe?

00:32:01.920 Where are you pulling these things together and where are you at now with that?

00:32:06.960 Yeah.

00:32:07.680 So if you go to Ezekiel 28, it talks about the anointed cherub who was in the, he was in

00:32:14.760 the, in Eden, the garden of God, and he was on the holy mountain of God.

00:32:19.920 So basically we're told that he has a foot in both domains.

00:32:23.560 And what I would suggest, and I talk about this in, in this book right here, Corrupting

00:32:29.240 the image volume too, it's kind of a thick one because I just couldn't help myself.

00:32:33.320 But I go back into, well, all kinds of really fun stuff, you know, ancient Akkadian, Sumerian,

00:32:40.180 and I get into wormholes and all kinds of stuff.

00:32:42.860 But in there, I show that there was a veil or there wasn't a veil between heaven and earth

00:32:51.460 before the fall of Adam and Eve, right?

00:32:54.400 So God comes walking in the garden, assumed that Adam had not yet fallen, that they,

00:32:59.240 would have had these walks and that Adam and Eve and God were perfectly compatible with

00:33:04.940 each other.

00:33:05.780 But now post fall, what are we told?

00:33:08.760 That no one can look on God's face, that he is a consuming fire.

00:33:14.000 God tells Moses, sorry, Moses, you can't see my face because you, nobody can, nobody mortal 0.99

00:33:19.000 can see it and live, you know, and God isn't being just stuck up.

00:33:22.700 God is just saying, I'm sorry.

00:33:24.000 I'm just too, you know, I'm just too powerful.

00:33:26.980 Right.

00:33:27.200 It's like, yeah, it's like me trying to hang out in a nuclear reactor.

00:33:31.800 Like you can do it, but it's not going to work out really well.

00:33:35.180 Right.

00:33:35.520 It'll sort of ruin my day.

00:33:37.200 And that's what happens is when you hang out with God face to face, no covering, no veil.

00:33:44.200 Guess what?

00:33:45.280 It's pretty catastrophic.

00:33:46.420 And so what happened is then a veil came down.

00:33:50.920 Now we see it in, in sort of negative statements, if you will, in Isaiah 64, Isaiah says, oh,

00:33:58.400 that you would rend the heavens and come down.

00:34:01.420 So he's asking God, take the veil away. 0.97

00:34:04.220 In Isaiah 25, it says that the veil, the veil that covers all mankind is going to go away.

00:34:10.820 We see this in four distinct places.

00:34:13.000 When Ezekiel's at the river with the captives of Judah, he says he saw the heavens opened and he saw visions of God.

00:34:21.020 At the baptism of Jesus, the heavens were opened.

00:34:23.600 The Holy Spirit descended.

00:34:24.760 When Stephen is being stoned, the heavens were opened and he saw Jesus at the right hand of the majesty on high.

00:34:29.440 In Revelation 19, John sees the heavens open and here comes Jesus on his white horse.

00:34:36.640 So there are these places where the veil is opened up.

00:34:40.820 And then at the return of Christ, it says that the heavens receded like a scroll.

00:34:46.320 That is the veil going away.

00:34:48.660 It's not all space and stars moving away.

00:34:51.220 No, it's this veil that is between us.

00:34:54.000 It's some kind of a dimensional barrier.

00:34:55.940 And the best example that I can think of thinking of a movie is in Avengers when they have the sling ring or those other things.

00:35:06.120 And they can sort of open up these portals between dimensions.

00:35:09.700 It's kind of something like that.

00:35:11.640 You know, I don't know exactly what it looks like, but it's something akin to that where there the other dimension is simply sitting on top of us.

00:35:20.180 And in the book Flatland, this is where Abbott, the author of that, he does an amazing job of kind of constructing this two-dimensional reality.

00:35:32.740 But right over it is, of course, the three-dimensional world.

00:35:36.180 Well, we're in a three-dimensional four-if-you-count time.

00:35:39.080 We can't see the other dimension that sits right on top of us.

00:35:43.560 So it's not so much that it's far and away.

00:35:46.260 It's that it's right here.

00:35:47.840 If we were to think of this on the electromagnetic spectrum, you know, we can only see so much light.

00:35:53.760 But we know that there's way more beyond that.

00:35:56.540 But maybe there's even more than what we think.

00:35:59.080 Maybe there's a whole lot more to that spectrum that we simply are not aware of.

00:36:04.120 We just don't have instrumentation.

00:36:05.880 But if we did, we might be a little bit scared if we could see.

00:36:09.200 So maybe God's good doing this.

00:36:10.380 This topic just came up, actually, on a recent episode where we talked about, like, the two kings, six, where Elisha and his servant goes out in the morning.

00:36:19.260 He's surrounded by the camp Assyria. 0.55

00:36:21.700 And then Elisha doesn't pray that anything shows up.

00:36:24.540 He just prays that the servant's eyes will be opened.

00:36:27.440 And then, boom, there's horses and chariots of fire in the mountains.

00:36:30.700 He doesn't just pray that.

00:36:31.720 He says he doesn't just say, like, I wish that, like, you could change his vision.

00:36:36.240 He says, no, let him see more.

00:36:37.860 He says, Lord, open his eyes.

00:36:39.260 I think he's like, open his eyes.

00:36:40.880 But to your point, like, the realm is there.

00:36:43.100 It always was there, to your point, like, right on top of us.

00:36:46.300 Like, right.

00:36:46.620 It wasn't some faraway place.

00:36:48.540 It wasn't some distant land.

00:36:49.740 It was always there.

00:36:51.140 It was just now visible.

00:36:52.220 You have the same sort of concept happening with the Dyssinian glass.

00:36:58.140 I think it's during the Vietnam War.

00:36:59.540 And this is something that isn't, like, confirmed.

00:37:01.840 It's really, I suppose, conspiracy theory.

00:37:03.560 But the idea was that they were using Dyssinian glass to come up with early versions of night vision or new versions of night vision.

00:37:10.780 But the soldiers were allegedly using this new implementation and perceiving what looked to be demons all over the battleground.

00:37:19.740 And you could imagine that if demons are really out there feeding off of this negative energy, the sorrow, the despair, the anger, they would be on a war, on a battlefront.

00:37:30.660 And so, you know, that obviously they had to pull that technology and make some adaptations.

00:37:35.800 But it's fascinating because that's an anecdotal conspiracy story that on its own is kind of, you know, you shrug your shoulders at it.

00:37:43.460 But in conjunction with what Matt just said, the story of Elisha, or Elisha, that is really fascinating.

00:37:49.960 And it just kind of bolsters it.

00:37:51.500 It's, you know, these things pile up and they create, you know, narratives.

00:37:55.440 And you go, well, that seems to be bolstering the idea that right laid over our own reality is this other one that's imperceivable.

00:38:02.640 But like you said, if we had the correct instrumentation, and I guess they may have briefly in Dicinian glass, you might see a thing or two.

00:38:09.540 You might not be too pumped about it, though.

00:38:11.480 Yeah.

00:38:11.800 Well, I think there's other ways to tap into that, which I do not recommend.

00:38:15.460 But ayahuasca is one way to see into that other realm.

00:38:19.520 Again, I don't recommend it.

00:38:21.140 Obviously, death is one way to get there.

00:38:23.920 That's kind of a permanent way to get there.

00:38:25.640 But, you know, probably other substances, LSD or maybe something else.

00:38:31.460 I mean, so here's the weird thing.

00:38:33.820 In the book of Revelation, it talks about a woman riding a beast.

00:38:37.040 Like, how random is that?

00:38:38.980 And yet, we have pictures.

00:38:41.800 I have them in my book.

00:38:43.220 If you want, I guess I'll pull it up on my screen.

00:38:45.380 But there's a picture of a woman riding a beast about 2200 B.C.

00:38:52.160 So this is the goddess Inanna, and she's on the back of the Ansu bird, which is actually Enlil, who is actually Satan. 0.54

00:39:00.660 And, like, how did those people have such a clear vision?

00:39:05.100 These are pagans we're talking about.

00:39:06.700 They're not believers in the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

00:39:10.420 They were seeing something.

00:39:12.200 They were seeing into the spiritual realm.

00:39:14.900 How did they see into that realm?

00:39:18.080 I mean, I don't have the answer.

00:39:19.660 But what impresses me is that they did see into that realm, and Revelation authenticates the things that they were seeing.

00:39:28.320 Now, they thought those were good things.

00:39:29.920 The Bible says those are bad things, so there's that.

00:39:32.820 But still, the material things that they were seeing, materially, it's the same stuff.

00:39:38.480 And that is just absolutely mind-blowing.

00:39:41.940 So I could actually show you guys.

00:39:46.040 I got that picture.

00:39:46.600 That would be great if you could bring that image up.

00:39:48.520 But that's where I sit these days now, where it's like, you know, all of these, you know, kind of religions of antiquity talk about very similar things.

00:39:56.120 The Bible gets the nature of these things correct. 0.90

00:39:59.720 And this is where I depart from people who say things like, these are strictly symbolic.

00:40:07.180 I do think they are very, very material.

00:40:10.480 There you go.

00:40:11.140 Yeah, right in the middle there.

00:40:12.540 Dave Hunt's got a great book with that title.

00:40:15.940 Yeah, I mean, God bless Dave Hunt.

00:40:18.020 I really like the guy.

00:40:19.760 But so what you're looking at, if you want to bring that back up, I'll explain it to you.

00:40:22.860 This is a cylinder seal.

00:40:24.460 This is kind of an ancient movie, you know, 21, 2200 BC.

00:40:30.340 They would take this little seal.

00:40:31.880 They would roll it on soft clay, and it would leave this depression.

00:40:37.000 All right.

00:40:37.180 And so you can see there in the middle, that woman, that is the goddess Inanna, also known as Ishtar, Astarte, right?

00:40:45.780 So all these different names talk about this goddess.

00:40:48.520 And what she's standing on is what's called the Ansu bird.

00:40:54.240 Now, this Ansu bird, bird is kind of not really the best title, but that's what scholars came up with.

00:41:00.340 This is also known as the Ushumgalu, the Mushushu.

00:41:04.060 It's a form of Enlil.

00:41:05.780 Enlil is the actual name given in the Bible, in Isaiah 14, 12, where it says Lucifer.

00:41:12.500 That's a mistranslation.

00:41:14.320 It's actually Helel, which is the same as the Sumerian Enlil.

00:41:20.360 So she's standing on the back of Enlil.

00:41:23.000 Enlil is lionesque.

00:41:25.240 He has wings.

00:41:26.300 He has some kind of poison coming out of his mouth.

00:41:31.400 He has a scorpion's tail.

00:41:33.880 He's got a serpent head phallus, and he has talons like an eagle.

00:41:38.400 I mean, this is exactly what is described in Revelation chapter 9.

00:41:44.320 It also talks about the great red dragon, right?

00:41:47.520 So you start following these little breadcrumbs, and you're like, oh, my goodness.

00:41:52.460 I mean, I've got tons more pictures that show this whole idea, but you get the idea of what's going on here.

00:41:58.200 So these people were seeing something that the Bible says, yep, that actually exists.

00:42:04.620 They're just not who you think they are, right?

00:42:07.120 How they saw that, I don't know.

00:42:09.020 I mean, well, these things seem to, I mean, you know, it's, you might assume that they exist outside of the confines of time as we understand it.

00:42:17.220 And so if they do exist in any meaningful way, and they're not affected by time in the way that we're affected, it would seem that if you could perceive them, you might perceive them the same back then as you perceive them now.

00:42:29.140 I think this is the same entity that the Bledsoe's are talking about when they're talking about the divine feminine or the goddess, this entity that's revealing itself to Chris Bledsoe, who effectively is an abductee victim.

00:42:42.340 And he identifies it as Hathor or Mother Mary, but it goes by other names, many other names, Ishtar, you know, being one of them.

00:42:51.000 If that truly is the same entity, then it's the same entity that you just showed us now.

00:42:54.820 And I happen to think, and, you know, on this show, we go into some highly improvable and speculative concepts.

00:43:02.000 But when you have the idea of a Jack Parsons and an L. Ron Hubbard in the deserts summoning in an entity called Babylon, that is a female entity.

00:43:11.860 It's described as a divine feminine.

00:43:15.140 I think it's all the same thing, and I think it's going to play a crucial role in this coming deception.

00:43:23.100 And I think it's going to, you know, it's beyond me to try to define and lay out the parameters of how this thing is going to unfold.

00:43:29.780 But it seems to be that this entity, not symbolic, is a material entity.

00:43:34.900 I can't describe to you the materials it's made out of, but it does exist in some real tangible way that's been perceived by people of antiquity and now currently being perceived by the Bledsoe's, is going to play a role in this big, you know, event that's going to be unfolding with disclosure and, you know, to other people.

00:43:54.960 It'll be called a number of other things, but people in the new age, Gnostic belief systems, they believe this thing is coming.

00:44:02.880 And I believe it's that thing that you've shown us there.

00:44:06.460 And we were talking to somebody recently who actually said, it was JT Follows, JC is a great content creator.

00:44:12.140 And he said that he thinks this entity is like a, like a sort of like a Lucifer, like that this entity has no problem presenting as male or female.

00:44:24.460 And, you know, I thought that was an interesting concept.

00:44:27.020 Once again, you know, in the intangible.

00:44:29.180 Something I find, go ahead, Matt.

00:44:31.680 Something I find really interesting is that in your new work, I see that you're dealing, you're basically putting a bullet in materialism.

00:44:37.440 But you're dealing with this idea of something like physics, not necessarily being rules, but just like a set, a set of circumstances that happen.

00:44:48.580 And then, and I guess, how would you, how would you describe that?

00:44:52.600 But I guess my question would be, how does this reality, this world that we're in, how do you think this will affect these entities as they sort of parse through this veil

00:45:04.920 and start to become a little bit more physical here when, when they approach us?

00:45:10.520 What is, what are your theories on that?

00:45:12.100 And is that what your book is about or am I misreading that?

00:45:16.060 Well, so my new book, The Relational Universe that comes out in September, I really don't deal with, you know, demonic entities or Nephilim, any of that stuff,

00:45:25.660 even though I definitely enjoy that conversation.

00:45:27.660 But I wanted to get to something much more foundational, something more fundamental.

00:45:34.580 Because when we start thinking about stuff, you know, the table in front of you, this book, you know, like, what is this actually made of?

00:45:41.120 Well, it's made of paper.

00:45:42.060 What's the paper made of, made of trees?

00:45:43.680 Where does the tree come from, right?

00:45:45.320 We start getting down into atoms, right?

00:45:48.880 We think, okay, atoms are the most basic thing.

00:45:52.740 And the word actually means that.

00:45:54.480 It means it's not divisible.

00:45:55.860 Ah, tomos, you can't cut it.

00:45:57.700 That's what an atom actually means.

00:46:00.260 And for a long time, it was surmised by the Greeks who came up with that idea.

00:46:05.600 And then it carried on until the 18, you know, late 1800s that, yeah, atoms are the most basic building blocks that we have.

00:46:16.400 And so it was called the billiard ball model of the universe.

00:46:21.080 In other words, that there's tiny little discrete bits, not even bits isn't the right word, but let's call them particles, little things of stuff.

00:46:30.380 And you put, if you have enough understanding of how material physics works, then you can kind of figure everything out.

00:46:38.080 And that was, you know, the billiard ball or the clockwork understanding of it.

00:46:43.540 And then came along quantum physics.

00:46:45.920 Quantum physics turned everything on its head.

00:46:47.900 And ironically, Albert Einstein, who wrote some important papers leading up to the real true discovery of quantum physics, he could not actually accept it.

00:47:02.580 He called some of the implications of quantum physics, specifically quantum entanglement, he called it spooky action at a distance because it just didn't make sense.

00:47:11.140 And basically what quantum physics is, well, you know, to quote Niels Bohr, he said, if you're not thoroughly confounded by quantum physics, then you really don't understand it.

00:47:22.140 All right.

00:47:22.380 So I think I'm thoroughly confounded by it.

00:47:24.600 So maybe I understand a little bit, but quantum physics says there's nothing really here.

00:47:31.680 That little electron or that particle that you think is right here is only there because you're looking at it.

00:47:38.960 So, and if you're not looking at it, it exists as a wave function.

00:47:43.900 And that's the word wave function.

00:47:46.240 It exists sort of as a potential, a cloud of potentiality.

00:47:51.700 And this is where it starts to intersect with the Bible in such incredible ways.

00:47:55.580 In Genesis, it says, you know, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

00:48:03.260 The earth was formless and void.

00:48:07.740 And so people think, oh, that that's just talking about how God destroyed the world and he started over.

00:48:13.180 It doesn't mean that.

00:48:14.480 It really doesn't mean that.

00:48:16.000 What it means is that it was not yet formed.

00:48:19.520 Think of cement in a cement mixer.

00:48:22.160 That's going to be your house.

00:48:23.520 But it's, but it's sloppy cement.

00:48:25.920 Yeah, exactly.

00:48:26.820 But it's going to be your house.

00:48:28.060 It's not yet formed.

00:48:29.380 It's still in process.

00:48:31.200 And what quantum physics talks about is this cloud of potentiality.

00:48:35.800 So we can think of Tohu Vavohu when it says that the earth was formless and void.

00:48:41.040 The earth is in this state of a cloud of potentiality.

00:48:44.800 It hasn't taken on discrete form yet because it's still in the, well, it's still in the process.

00:48:52.720 And then what quantum physics has discovered so incredibly, this is through an experiment called the double slit experiment.

00:49:01.180 There was this question, you know, is light a particle or a wave?

00:49:05.400 And it turns out the answer is yes, it's both.

00:49:07.820 And what they did is they did something called a double slit experiment.

00:49:12.820 So imagine two slits, you fire a single particle, photon, electron, whatever it is, through these two slits.

00:49:22.000 All right.

00:49:22.220 And when they were not looking at it, they just let this thing go and nobody was there to observe it.

00:49:28.440 They would come later and they would find that behind the slits, they would have that kind of a screen to sort of catch the data.

00:49:33.600 And it looked like it was a wave.

00:49:37.180 The way the light was going through it, it said, oh, it's a wave.

00:49:40.360 And they're like, yep, that's for sure.

00:49:42.160 There we go.

00:49:42.560 That's our proof.

00:49:43.320 Then they said, well, let's see how this actually works.

00:49:45.600 And so then they set up instrumentation so they could observe it.

00:49:48.780 But then it acted like a particle.

00:49:50.500 And they're like, well, that's funny.

00:49:52.100 How can it be that when we're not watching, it looks like a wave?

00:49:55.560 And when we are watching, it acts like a particle.

00:49:58.520 Does light know that we're watching it?

00:50:02.440 And this has been done so many times.

00:50:05.960 I mean, this is probably the most repeated experiment of all time besides boiling water.

00:50:12.840 But there's like we can't get around this thing.

00:50:17.020 We don't know how this happens.

00:50:19.360 And how can it be that creation itself somehow seems to know that we're paying attention?

00:50:23.960 Well, again, back to Genesis chapter 1, what does it say?

00:50:27.700 Seven times, and God saw that it was good.

00:50:32.260 See, in order for it to go from being a state of potentiality, there has to be an observer.

00:50:38.760 God is that first observer.

00:50:41.880 He saw his creation, that it was good, that it was functional, that it was aligned, it was coherent.

00:50:48.680 And I think we hear the word good and we think some kind of a moral statement.

00:50:53.960 But it's not a moral statement.

00:50:55.680 This is more a functional statement.

00:50:58.980 This is a statement of, you know, how is it working?

00:51:03.820 Like a foundational potentiality kind of a deal?

00:51:08.280 Yeah, like something that can propagate?

00:51:11.100 Well, let's say that, you know, we build a house together and you come inspect the part that I do.

00:51:15.360 And you're like, oh, that's good.

00:51:16.380 You're not saying that it's morally good.

00:51:17.740 You're saying that it's good because it's going to hold together.

00:51:20.620 It's coherent, it's structural.

00:51:22.760 That is the word that's being used here.

00:51:25.080 Not in that moral sense, but in the structural, it's coherent kind of sense.

00:51:30.900 All right.

00:51:31.200 So, you know, I just started seeing these patterns all over the place.

00:51:34.980 And when I kept thinking, okay, what is stuff made of?

00:51:38.460 I mean, what is it really made of?

00:51:40.500 And one thing that sparked my curiosity, I had been doing this study of all these near-death experiences.

00:51:47.300 And I mean, dozens of people were coming back and they're saying, everything is made of love on the other side. 0.63

00:51:52.400 And you're like, oh, that's ridiculous. 0.82

00:51:54.100 You know, I mean, come on. 0.97

00:51:55.180 Right.

00:51:55.940 But then I started thinking, well, what if it is made of love?

00:51:58.940 I mean, what would that actually look like?

00:52:00.380 What would, how could I discover that?

00:52:03.000 And I started thinking, well, what is stuff made of?

00:52:05.040 And I realized it's not really made of anything.

00:52:09.100 So when you get down to the atom, then you go down to the protons and the electrons.

00:52:14.860 Beyond that, you go down to the quarks.

00:52:17.060 Beyond that, you go down to the muons, gluons, and leptons.

00:52:21.160 And then where do we go?

00:52:22.600 Well, it seems to be just little energy packets.

00:52:25.060 But this is where it gets really interesting.

00:52:26.940 Let's say I take a battery.

00:52:28.080 Okay, let's see, I got a battery and the battery, you know that there's energy in that battery.

00:52:34.060 But where is the energy?

00:52:36.500 All right, think of a Duracell AA.

00:52:38.800 Where is the energy?

00:52:41.100 Well, it's being stored as chemical potential energy.

00:52:47.020 But it's only when you hook up the two diodes, right, when you hook those up, that you actually have the transference of energy.

00:52:57.100 The energy lives between the nodes.

00:53:01.900 That's where the energy is.

00:53:03.380 It's between there.

00:53:04.500 It's in the relationship of when you hook up those two ends, the positive and the negative.

00:53:10.460 That's where the energy actually exists.

00:53:13.580 And I was like, wow, energy only exists in relationship.

00:53:17.920 That's where it is.

00:53:19.400 Otherwise, it's just stored potential.

00:53:22.140 And that takes us back to Genesis 1, 1, and 1, 2, where there's all this potential energy.

00:53:29.100 There's this potential matter, but it's not yet formed matter.

00:53:34.020 It's not concrete matter because it hasn't had a relationship.

00:53:38.060 And then when God sees it and he starts to interact with it, it starts to become something.

00:53:43.180 This is what, sorry to interrupt, but this is what worship is.

00:53:46.840 This is what I've been trying to understand and define.

00:53:51.620 Worship is like that.

00:53:52.600 So that's the observer.

00:53:54.420 If I'm aiming at something, that is what I'm going to be feeding with this potential energy.

00:54:00.000 It's connecting me to, I'm the positive source.

00:54:01.860 It's the negative.

00:54:02.300 And now it's connected and it's taking that.

00:54:04.400 That's the form of worship.

00:54:06.420 And it's like, I'm telling you, I'm banging my head against the wall trying to explain this thing.

00:54:12.780 Is it music?

00:54:13.640 Is it proclamation?

00:54:15.060 Is it alignment?

00:54:16.780 It's all of those things.

00:54:18.420 And why do they want it so bad?

00:54:20.120 And it's this.

00:54:21.380 It's fascinating.

00:54:22.420 Thank you, man.

00:54:23.640 Yeah, absolutely.

00:54:25.240 Yeah.

00:54:25.600 So, you know, I'm suggesting that everything is made out of relationship.

00:54:29.200 You know, it's not made out of stuff.

00:54:30.700 It's made out of relationship, you know, and there's a couple.

00:54:36.300 Yeah.

00:54:36.880 Sorry to interrupt.

00:54:37.700 A couple of passages that talk about like everything being held together by the word of God.

00:54:41.480 Hebrews 1, Hebrews 3, 1, I think.

00:54:43.980 Hebrews 1, 3.

00:54:44.920 Right.

00:54:45.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:46.420 Colossians 1, 17.

00:54:48.720 Yeah.

00:54:49.560 Some of these passages, Hebrews 11, 3, just that everything's framed and held together by the word of God.

00:54:55.760 Is that kind of wrapped up in what you're saying as well?

00:54:57.680 Well, essentially, because you start looking at language itself.

00:55:02.420 If you just say one word or one, you know, one phoneme, it doesn't have any meaning.

00:55:10.440 It's only when you string phonemes together to make words and then you take words, string them together to make sentences and then paragraphs and then books eventually.

00:55:18.580 That's when everything starts to have meaning.

00:55:22.240 It has to be in relationship with something else.

00:55:25.920 Same thing with numbers.

00:55:27.060 One number by itself.

00:55:28.640 Okay.

00:55:29.240 One number.

00:55:30.040 The number two.

00:55:31.040 Right.

00:55:31.280 But you do two plus two.

00:55:34.660 Well, now you have a relationship and then meanings comes out of that.

00:55:38.440 Form comes out of that.

00:55:40.280 Same thing with music.

00:55:41.640 One note by itself is just noise.

00:55:44.000 But you start stringing notes together and you start getting a tune.

00:55:49.140 You start getting a symphony eventually.

00:55:51.920 Everything has to have some kind of relationship.

00:55:54.920 And I use the idea of Notre Dame.

00:55:57.520 Right.

00:55:57.660 So there's gorgeous cathedral and you see those stones are being held up.

00:56:02.360 You're like, wow, this is really incredible.

00:56:04.840 But stones just by themselves are heavy.

00:56:07.180 And if you just stack stones together, you don't get a cathedral.

00:56:10.380 You probably will get a lawsuit or something.

00:56:12.200 But if you what what is holding those stones in place?

00:56:17.080 It's the relationship of how those stones are put together.

00:56:21.100 The builders understood the principles, the hidden architecture of relationship that is

00:56:31.380 holding those stones in place after all these years.

00:56:35.460 That's the part that we can't really put our finger on, but we definitely see it.

00:56:40.760 We see it.

00:56:41.340 It's out there.

00:56:42.060 And so in the book, I boil it down to three things.

00:56:44.740 I talk about alignment, intent and repair.

00:56:48.000 Those are the three things that are necessary for any relationship to stand.

00:56:54.680 And if it doesn't, then entropy comes in.

00:56:59.040 But entropy is absolutely needed.

00:57:02.340 Entropy has to, well, it's not needed, but it's a necessary risk.

00:57:10.480 Let's put it this way.

00:57:11.280 For true love to happen, there has to be the opportunity for one of the participants to

00:57:18.820 say, no, thank you.

00:57:20.460 Not interested. 1.00

00:57:21.760 Otherwise, it's just a gun to your head. 0.99

00:57:23.180 Love me.

00:57:23.620 And they're like, okay.

00:57:24.820 So entropy is free will, you're saying.

00:57:27.600 Entropy is the risk of free will.

00:57:31.620 It's the risk.

00:57:33.060 It's not necessarily going to happen, but it has to be present.

00:57:38.840 There has to be the risk of entropy for there to be the possibility of real love.

00:57:44.100 And that's where God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden.

00:57:49.560 I mean, why in the world did he put that tree in there?

00:57:51.900 What were you thinking, Lord?

00:57:53.580 Right?

00:57:53.860 Why do that?

00:57:55.140 It's like putting a nuclear button right in front of my toddler and saying, no, don't

00:57:59.740 hit that swing, right?

00:58:00.940 But Adam and Eve were fully formed.

00:58:03.320 They had good function.

00:58:04.460 They had great mental capacity.

00:58:06.380 But what they lacked and what God wanted to instill in them was the ability of free will.

00:58:16.200 Because free will is the only way you can have love.

00:58:19.600 The Bible says that God is love.

00:58:21.900 So the only way for there to be true love between God and his creatures, especially Adam

00:58:28.380 and Eve, was for them to say no.

00:58:32.020 And that no had to have weight.

00:58:35.140 It had to have teeth.

00:58:36.680 It had to be real.

00:58:38.540 God could not just override it because, oh, my goodness, they did something wrong.

00:58:43.520 It had to allow the consequences to propagate.

00:58:50.160 And that is what God had to do.

00:58:53.040 I mean, I have been thinking about it.

00:58:54.240 In my book, I have a little interlude section.

00:58:56.820 And I say, you get to be the creator.

00:58:58.140 And I say, what kind of universe would you create, given the opportunity?

00:59:04.000 Would you make one that's more like a screensaver where really cool, interesting things happen,

00:59:07.860 but there's no danger?

00:59:08.860 Because the beings in there, while they might look clever, but ultimately, it's just good

00:59:14.840 programming.

00:59:15.600 There's no danger at all of any kind of rebellion.

00:59:19.100 But there's also no possibility of any real relationship because anything nice that they

00:59:25.020 say to you, it's kind of like the Truman Show, right?

00:59:27.340 It's all scripted.

00:59:29.460 And, you know, that's why Truman lost his mind in the movie because nothing was real.

00:59:35.100 It was all scripted.

00:59:37.900 And, you know, that would eat at you if everybody around you, they're all pleasant to you.

00:59:42.680 They're civil.

00:59:43.900 But, you know, they're just doing it because that's what they have to do.

00:59:46.580 You know, in your heart of hearts, that would not be love.

00:59:50.100 And if God is love, then he wants there to be true, real, genuine love.

00:59:56.100 And for there to be true, real, genuine love, there has to be the capacity for people to

01:00:01.760 say no.

01:00:03.020 And, of course, that's what happened.

01:00:05.440 So now...

01:00:06.240 A question.

01:00:07.220 Do you think in the spiritual realm, the angelic beings, the Elohim, they have a form of free

01:00:15.700 will, but it's quite strict.

01:00:19.080 If they break it, they're judged, they're done.

01:00:21.960 How do you think that that works in that realm?

01:00:24.040 Because this is still a relational...

01:00:27.820 Is it fair to say they don't have forgiveness?

01:00:31.520 I don't think they do.

01:00:33.340 Whereas it seems like when they mess up, there's a harsh price to pay for that.

01:00:36.340 Yeah.

01:00:36.620 From the stories that we know.

01:00:38.060 Yeah.

01:00:38.280 They definitely have free will.

01:00:39.880 We know that from Ezekiel 28, it says that iniquity was found in your heart because of

01:00:46.560 your beauty.

01:00:48.160 Right?

01:00:48.340 So he was overtaken by his own beauty.

01:00:50.640 He made a choice.

01:00:52.520 But here's the thing.

01:00:53.460 He had all the data.

01:00:55.660 Right?

01:00:55.860 He knew what hand he had been dealt.

01:00:58.900 Right?

01:00:59.100 Everybody was playing with their cards face out.

01:01:01.220 Okay?

01:01:02.020 So Satan wasn't lacking for data.

01:01:06.340 He wasn't mystified.

01:01:08.600 He knew everything that he needed to know.

01:01:10.720 In fact, God says that you were perfect in wisdom.

01:01:12.980 Perfect.

01:01:13.640 I mean, or full.

01:01:14.640 He says he was full of wisdom.

01:01:15.820 Perfect in beauty.

01:01:16.820 Full of wisdom.

01:01:17.940 He wasn't like half full.

01:01:19.540 Like, you know, for most of us, we're like, I don't know, like 1% full.

01:01:23.460 Right?

01:01:23.980 And...

01:01:24.540 But Satan was full of wisdom.

01:01:26.440 So he wasn't lacking in information, and yet he still made a choice.

01:01:32.100 And so because of that, there seems to be no possibility of forgiveness.

01:01:37.920 And I think it has to do...

01:01:39.220 I would go back to structure.

01:01:40.420 That's why I'm really excited about the relational universe.

01:01:43.000 Because now we can start to see the Bible in terms of structure, not just in terms of

01:01:47.900 whether God is having a good hair day or whether he feels like being a nice grandpa.

01:01:52.840 No, it's not anything like that.

01:01:54.740 It's that these are foundational, structural things, and they require structural repair

01:02:03.140 in order for things to happen.

01:02:04.840 And so Satan, he is fundamentally misaligned to the very architecture of the universe by

01:02:17.420 his own free will.

01:02:19.100 He didn't make a mistake.

01:02:21.200 He wasn't deceived.

01:02:22.680 He wasn't beguiled.

01:02:23.980 It wasn't that, you know, he started to think, well, maybe, you know, maybe, yeah, this

01:02:28.740 is this way or...

01:02:29.580 But he deceived himself.

01:02:32.540 And that's the worst deception, right?

01:02:34.540 When you deceive yourself, because who can get you out of that?

01:02:37.460 I think when Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, and he was talking about the blasphemy of

01:02:42.600 the Holy Spirit, you know, I have so many people coming to me, oh, Doug, I think I might

01:02:46.040 have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

01:02:47.660 I'm like, no, you haven't.

01:02:48.540 You really haven't.

01:02:49.140 Because the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is where you become so deceived that Jesus is

01:02:55.020 saying, hey, I'm trying to help you.

01:02:56.820 I'm throwing you a lifeline, and you keep rejecting it.

01:03:00.480 You don't want it.

01:03:02.440 And eventually, it's like, I'm doing everything in my power to save you, and you are refusing.

01:03:08.060 You're locking the door from the inside.

01:03:11.180 And that is the ultimate rejection of the Holy Spirit.

01:03:14.240 So Satan and all those who followed him, they did the ultimate blasphemy of the Holy Spirit,

01:03:21.260 because they decided to lock their own door from the inside, even though they had all the

01:03:26.260 data, they didn't need anything more, and they said, you know what?

01:03:29.500 I'm just not interested.

01:03:30.480 So what more can be done for them?

01:03:32.080 Is there some new revelation that they're like, oh, had I known that, I would have repented.

01:03:37.240 Had I known God's true nature, I would have acted differently.

01:03:41.460 They did know God's true nature.

01:03:43.200 That's the whole point.

01:03:44.240 They knew his glory.

01:03:45.320 They saw his glory.

01:03:46.240 They lived in his glory.

01:03:47.240 They bathed in his glory.

01:03:49.560 And that they said, no, no thanks.

01:03:52.400 So truly, what sacrifice, what option, what reset button remains for that?

01:03:58.600 There is no reset button.

01:03:59.880 Not because God is withholding it.

01:04:02.600 Not because God is like, I'm sorry, I'm not going to forgive you guys.

01:04:05.640 No.

01:04:07.620 What would possibly turn their minds at this point?

01:04:12.160 This is something that they've done.

01:04:13.680 This is, you know, Top is, we've discussed this on the show before, where he will almost

01:04:19.980 sensationally say, oh, who the hell wants to be an angel? 0.85

01:04:24.160 You know, it would suck to be an angel. 0.63

01:04:25.840 And it's kind of like this, you know, verbose thing to get a conversation started.

01:04:29.760 But through that lens, people get mad about it.

01:04:32.240 People get mad through that lens.

01:04:34.120 Yeah.

01:04:34.300 Who would want to be?

01:04:35.180 It's like, it's, you have all of the information that you possibly need.

01:04:39.600 And then look what you've done with it.

01:04:41.520 I mean, as far as being fallen goes, there is something, there's real beauty in the idea

01:04:49.280 that God has set things up in such a way as to give us the ability to choose to love him.

01:04:56.360 Because through that frame, it then becomes obvious that everything that happens afterwards,

01:05:03.620 everything that happens after the fall, everything that happens after Adam and Eve,

01:05:06.680 this unbelievable drama that unfolds is birthed from this very first, you know, decision.

01:05:17.420 And it's almost like, you know, our choice to, for Adam's choice to fall away and to disobey

01:05:25.800 God and to choose, you know, something other than God leads to, you know, maybe I'm looking

01:05:33.220 at it wrong, but it feels like an epic, you know, if Homer's Odyssey is truly like a fantastic

01:05:40.480 story for the ages, then the story of mankind that starts with this one pivot away from God

01:05:47.340 that he's allowed us to do, he's allowed us to make that decision or else what, like you

01:05:52.820 said, what is it to love him if there's never a choice, right?

01:05:56.160 And it's just a gun to your head, then branches off into this unbelievable epic, thousands of

01:06:02.100 years, and it ends in, in redemption, and it ends in God finally getting what he wanted

01:06:07.420 from the start.

01:06:08.540 But it's, it's really the story of humanity's growing pains.

01:06:15.200 Yeah.

01:06:21.640 I'm just kind of thinking of it, and there's different ways to look at that.

01:06:25.140 But, you know, again, in the context of the relational universe, God allows us to say no.

01:06:34.060 But here's the beauty, is that in every relationship, whether it's a building, whether it's a business,

01:06:41.400 it's a marriage, any kind of relationship, structural, physical, or, you know, romantic,

01:06:48.780 there's always going to be some drift.

01:06:50.880 There's going to be some entropy.

01:06:53.340 And so there has to be a mechanism for repair.

01:06:56.180 And that is where God, God is love.

01:06:59.580 He is the one who decides to come in and fix his own universe.

01:07:05.020 Again, looking at this, any, any system, let's think of a computer.

01:07:09.080 If a computer has a virus, there's often enough resources within the kernel of the software

01:07:16.760 that it can, it can put on a patch, it can, it can fix things.

01:07:21.240 However, if somehow the kernel is corrupted, then the kernel does not have the resources

01:07:28.740 to fix itself from the inside.

01:07:31.620 And so it requires some kind of fix from the outside.

01:07:35.660 That's the only way you can restore it.

01:07:38.500 Every one of us has our own little entropy world.

01:07:41.320 And we're trying to always keep, you know, to stave off that entropy, as it were.

01:07:46.700 We do that by taking in calories, eating food, by living in homes with heating and all these

01:07:53.460 different things so that we don't experience entropy too quickly.

01:07:57.420 I mean, eventually we do, right?

01:07:58.860 It's called death.

01:08:00.100 But, but eventually there has to be resources are coming from outside of us.

01:08:03.960 And this is where I was really intrigued by Isaac Asimov.

01:08:07.860 I think he's an amazing author.

01:08:09.000 Obviously he's passed on, but he wrote iRobot.

01:08:12.920 He wrote the Foundation series.

01:08:17.980 And he, in the latter part of his life, he wrote two books that I found very fascinating.

01:08:22.400 One of them was called The Last Question.

01:08:25.200 And in The Last Question, humanity has created this, this, this AI computer.

01:08:31.180 And they, they call it AutoVac because they were vacuum tubes back then.

01:08:35.260 But it's kind of funny.

01:08:36.200 But anyway, this computer answers all the questions of the world and everyone's living in a great

01:08:42.460 utopia.

01:08:43.460 But then eventually the question comes into their mind.

01:08:46.300 What about entropy?

01:08:47.520 How do we overcome entropy?

01:08:49.340 And they ask the computer, you know, 10,000 years into this.

01:08:52.580 And it says insufficient data.

01:08:54.520 They ask it again, 150 million years later, insufficient data.

01:08:59.340 Billions of years later, insufficient data.

01:09:01.380 And eventually, as the last star is about to go out, humanity says, is there any way to overcome entropy?

01:09:07.740 And the, this computer that has almost become like a god says insufficient data.

01:09:12.980 And entropy wins.

01:09:15.660 Eventually, the lights go out in the universe.

01:09:18.180 There's no more energy whatsoever.

01:09:19.860 And then somehow, this computer that's transcendent and become like a god, it, that it then says, let there be light.

01:09:27.700 And I thought, how ironic that Isaac Asimov, who is this staunch atheist, doesn't believe in the god of the Bible.

01:09:37.100 And yet, in his own fictitious universe, he understands that there's no way to overcome entropy.

01:09:45.360 The only way to overcome it is from some source outside of this cosmos.

01:09:51.660 There has to be some, some source that has to come in.

01:09:54.920 That's where Jesus comes in.

01:09:56.540 This is where Jesus comes and he corrects the stored entropy that we have been living with.

01:10:04.380 He took that upon himself.

01:10:06.040 He imbibed it.

01:10:07.000 It became in him. 0.99

01:10:08.500 He took on all of that garbage, as it were. 0.98

01:10:11.720 And he went to the cross with it.

01:10:13.660 And just like restarting your computer, Jesus had to turn off and then he had to turn back on.

01:10:20.760 So now there's a new operating system.

01:10:23.260 And in that operating system, it cannot be forced because love can never be forced.

01:10:28.060 It has to be freely chosen.

01:10:29.480 And so we can all choose to have this new operating system called the new birth.

01:10:36.040 And are born again, whatever you want to call it.

01:10:39.080 And then we become part of his operating system.

01:10:43.260 It's really amazing stuff.

01:10:45.320 So I like that idea.

01:10:46.300 It's the idea of intervention where I guess people, well, I don't know, Tucker Carlson kind of said recently that America has been led to believe that, you know, the spiritual realm is not real for a very long time.

01:10:58.660 And now people are starting to wake up to it.

01:11:00.120 But that idea of an outside source, this intervention, that means miracles could be real.

01:11:06.980 You know, a lot of people say prayers and we're like, what are we saying prayers for?

01:11:09.740 We're just like, you know, thoughts and prayers, right?

01:11:12.240 Somebody's sick thoughts and prayers.

01:11:13.360 No, that changes the idea of what we're doing there.

01:11:19.200 And even, you know, penalties.

01:11:23.020 Like if there's an outside source, then we have to actually be keen and deal with those things or at least be aware that they exist on a very real level.

01:11:31.560 I appreciate like the language that you're using as far as all these systems and programs.

01:11:40.720 And it's interesting that we exist in this time where people have really fallen or taken to the idea of like a simulation theory.

01:11:48.920 And it's like it is an it's an apt verbiage, all of the verbiage surrounding simulation theory and computer programs to kind of describe what we're going through.

01:12:00.680 But it is it is lacking, right?

01:12:02.580 There's there's something that human language can't express.

01:12:06.080 There's an understanding that we can't, given our limited experience here in this three dimensional realm, in this materialistic paradigm, in this in this physical realm.

01:12:15.120 There are things that we can't quantify and there's things that we can't perceive and therefore we can't articulate.

01:12:20.480 And so it's a little bit of a slippery slope.

01:12:24.060 I see a lot of people that are maybe, let's say, like atheists adjacent who can get behind the idea that, well, there is maybe a perceivable code that is the backdrop.

01:12:39.040 Quantum physics says that they've perceived a code that runs in the background.

01:12:43.760 And it's like, you know, far be it for me to even understand what that really means.

01:12:48.500 But when you hear somebody within the scientific or the mathematics community come out and say that and then us in our infinite wisdom, we go, well, I know what Grand Theft Auto is and I know what, you know, World of Warcraft is.

01:13:02.620 And therefore, if you're telling me in those languages that are relatable to my experiences here, that this is like that, but at a larger scale and thereby there's a creator of the program.

01:13:15.820 It's like what I'm getting at is I've seen people use this language, which I understand is applicable and brush up against the truth, but sort of miss it in the same way that we said the Bible has many of these same concepts and principles that any mythology of antiquity would have.

01:13:39.240 But the Bible gets the nature of things correct.

01:13:43.960 There seems to be an absence of the nature.

01:13:47.180 So, in other words, you're dealing with very much the same language that maybe even somebody who's a fan of simulation theory would use, but you've not lost track of the nature of things.

01:13:56.800 And I wonder, do you see that?

01:13:58.500 Because it looks to me like I see that and it's like people are missing it and you're and they're so close to it.

01:14:03.860 They're right brushing up against it, but they're subscribing to this as if it's it somehow makes Christianity obsolete.

01:14:11.640 Yeah, it's interesting.

01:14:13.340 In earlier drafts of my book, I was really leaning into simulation theory and I decided to leave it because I think there's something much more foundational, which is what I've explained in the relational universe.

01:14:23.900 But, you know, Nick Bostrom, he really popularized that whole idea back in 2005 or something that, you know, we might be living in a simulated universe.

01:14:33.220 And I think it's very, it's very attractive to people because, you know, OK, so maybe we're just a game running in some kid's garage computer, you know, somewhere.

01:14:46.660 That's fine because that that so-called creator doesn't seem to demand too much of us.

01:14:52.480 And he's probably just like us, you know, kind of a slob and, you know, he makes all kinds of mistakes.

01:14:58.340 But really what people are fighting against, the reason that they like, they sort of gravitate toward this, this simulated universe theory is that they're fighting against the caricature of the God of the Bible.

01:15:14.160 And I think we're all guilty of this to some extent.

01:15:17.260 I know that I'm guilty.

01:15:18.220 You know, I have my own caricature of God that I'm trying to shed.

01:15:22.420 I really want to get in touch with the real God of the Bible.

01:15:25.460 And I have to let go of my own presuppositions, some of the false theology that I was taught, some of the theology that I acquired very innocently and with a good heart.

01:15:36.600 And it still wasn't right.

01:15:38.260 And what I've discovered is God is so much bigger than all of us.

01:15:43.180 So the simulation idea, it is attractive.

01:15:46.600 It makes sense to a certain extent.

01:15:49.420 And I think it's a pretty good foot in the door if you want to have a conversation with somebody because it leads you to that same place.

01:15:56.920 And that's where I have this thought experiment in the middle of my book where you get to create your own universe, you know.

01:16:02.700 And, you know, I don't say it's a simulated universe, but it's the same basic idea is that you're at this master console and the computer voice says, what kind of universe would you like to create?

01:16:14.020 Is it more of the screensaver universe or is it the one where you create beings?

01:16:20.040 They do have free choice, but only for good things, right?

01:16:24.500 There's lots of lots of guardrails.

01:16:26.880 They can't really make a bad choice.

01:16:29.080 It'd be like you playing Mario Brothers and you can go anywhere you want and do anything you want, but you really can't jump off the cliff.

01:16:37.620 You can never get swallowed by one of those mushrooms or whatever they are.

01:16:41.060 You know, nothing bad can ever happen to you.

01:16:43.520 So, yeah, you can decide to go right or go left, but can you really can you really experience any kind of free will or any, you know, anything that's real in that sense?

01:16:55.680 So that's one option.

01:16:56.880 And then the last option is that the truly loving universe.

01:17:01.820 So I think people like the idea of the simulation theory.

01:17:06.080 They like the idea that, well, there's probably a creator because certainly the God of the Bible is no good because he's all mean and mad and he likes to kill people and genocide and all this stuff, which they clearly misunderstand all this.

01:17:18.580 But when, you know, if God, if you were to create a universe and you wanted to create beings in your universe, let's call them little alphas.

01:17:28.240 Would you really give them free will?

01:17:29.780 Because if they have free will, you want them to love you, but you have to give them the chance to not love you.

01:17:37.500 And that's the risky part.

01:17:39.620 True love is risky.

01:17:41.880 In fact, if you give them free will, they might likely erect a giant tower and try to breach your realm and shoot you with an arrow or something crazy like that.

01:17:52.760 And then you'll have to smash their tower and confuse them all because that leads to like another question.

01:17:59.780 Why, why would you give that to them unless you needed it yourself?

01:18:03.980 Yeah.

01:18:04.200 I mean, it's the same for you, right?

01:18:06.280 Like you, like you don't need your kids, but in a certain way you need your kids, right?

01:18:11.120 It's the exact same thing.

01:18:12.160 I mean, you have children, you're running the risk that like these kids could grow up, turn 18 and never talk to me again.

01:18:18.420 Yeah.

01:18:18.720 Yeah.

01:18:19.500 Yeah.

01:18:19.920 I guess like, so the question is like, why God would even do this at all?

01:18:24.740 Yeah.

01:18:25.180 I think that's, that's the only good answer.

01:18:27.660 Yeah.

01:18:27.800 Like if you just create these robots or like, uh, I'm guessing Doug, he's not into the, uh, Calvinist or reform doctrine clearly that like, okay, then what's the point?

01:18:37.500 Like, well, like, what do you mean?

01:18:38.520 Like if we're just, if he's just doing this thing and everything's already predetermined and nobody has free will, then what's the point?

01:18:43.440 Like, what, like, what are we doing here?

01:18:45.200 It's almost like this is the testing ground to see if you really love him.

01:18:48.080 And he gives you that opportunity the same way we do when we have children.

01:18:51.200 And there's probably also this real desire to see us grow and see us develop and, and you can't just, I mean, you know, we see people do it all the time as parents all over the world throughout history that are guilty of it.

01:19:03.160 Like, you know, trying so hard to, to micromanage every aspect of their child's life only to find out that you screwed up when they become an adult and you look back at all the ways you micromanaged and you were overbearing and you were, you didn't allow them this freedom, right?

01:19:18.000 This freedom to choose to even have the ability to mess up.

01:19:21.360 And what it just does in the end is, is make you realize all the ways in which you as a parent screwed up.

01:19:26.280 So I would imagine God is, is wiser than, than we are.

01:19:29.340 And he would let us, uh, go off, build the towers, go crazy, you know, whatever.

01:19:34.800 Uh, yeah.

01:19:35.320 And, and yeah, it's, and it's love.

01:19:37.700 That's the thing that allows you to do that.

01:19:40.140 Um, because it hurts like hell.

01:19:42.180 So, right.

01:19:43.020 Yeah.

01:19:43.340 You know, he, he, I was just gonna say he, he, he intervenes only so often.

01:19:48.520 When there's an existential threat to the entire system.

01:19:52.500 So with the tower of Babel, you know, God wasn't against tall buildings.

01:19:57.900 Uh, that the word Bob L actually means gate of the gods.

01:20:02.040 So they were trying to build a stargate wormhole.

01:20:04.820 If you want to use that term, they were trying to find a way to cross the barrier, to get through the veil.

01:20:09.980 So that these evil malevolent beings that were saying that they're on our side, but they're really not.

01:20:16.100 They were, it's like, you know, letting a, a corrupted file into your system and your computer system.

01:20:21.860 You don't want to do that.

01:20:23.020 You want to quarantine it.

01:20:24.080 And so God was basically putting, um, you know, some, some, um, last effort, last ditch, uh, safety, uh, rails, you know, on for humanity so that we could not be completely destroyed by letting in these, these other worldly entities that would take over.

01:20:44.600 They would subjugate us, you know, even more than they already are, but it would truly be a hell on earth.

01:20:50.260 And so that was, again, that was love.

01:20:52.280 Right.

01:20:52.720 And so this is what I'm trying to do is like, I want to see everything in love.

01:20:56.380 Now nowadays, even the end times I see as love that God is not this ogre.

01:21:02.000 He's not this, this character that many of us have grown up with that he's on his throne.

01:21:07.020 And he's got a bunch of lightning bolts and he can hardly wait to meet out justice.

01:21:10.600 He's definitely not the Calvinist God.

01:21:12.060 Sorry to all the Calvinists out there, but I was not predestined to be a Calvinist and God is love.

01:21:18.420 He is not determined that, you know, umpteen million people are going to hell just because they didn't offer them grace.

01:21:24.960 Not at all.

01:21:26.200 God is love and he wants to have a relationship with us.

01:21:29.380 And because relationship is inherently risky because real love requires the ability for the person that you want to love to say no to you, but that's what gives it meaning, right?

01:21:41.360 That's what gives it meaning.

01:21:43.140 Otherwise we just call it slavery and God doesn't want us to be in slavery.

01:21:47.680 He's emphatic about that, that he's not come to enslave us, but to liberate us, to free us.

01:21:53.440 Christ has come that we would have freedom.

01:21:55.980 We're already in bondage.

01:21:57.220 So he wants to liberate us from that.

01:21:59.980 And in order for that to happen, it has to be slow.

01:22:03.540 It has to be methodical.

01:22:04.780 It has to be freely chosen.

01:22:07.080 And that's why God allows for malevolent beings like the, the, uh, you know, the, the demons and the fallen angels to keep doing their thing.

01:22:17.400 Now their quarantine is coming.

01:22:20.180 Okay.

01:22:20.680 Because eventually they're going to have no place in his kingdom.

01:22:25.220 Not because that God is, is tough and stern, but it's just that they're, they're incompatible with, with this kingdom of love, this kingdom of light and, and all the glory that will be coming from it.

01:22:39.040 There's simply no place for them.

01:22:40.360 And so if a being continues to willfully say, I want nothing to do with you, God is not going to force them.

01:22:49.120 That's not how love works.

01:22:50.440 He's going to say, okay, we have a special room for you right over here and you can go and, and sit there for as long as you want.

01:22:57.640 All right.

01:22:58.720 The door, here's the key, but you can stay in your room as long as you want.

01:23:03.320 You don't come and play with the rest of us.

01:23:05.500 But if you, you know, anyway, so, so, you know, if you want to call that hell, the lake of fire, there's all kinds of the whole nother discussion.

01:23:12.920 Right.

01:23:13.340 But, but there is that capacity for beings that just continue to refuse.

01:23:19.180 We want nothing to do with it because that's how love operates.

01:23:22.980 There, there has to be that option to say no.

01:23:26.220 I, um, I agree.

01:23:27.660 Go ahead.

01:23:28.040 Oh yeah.

01:23:28.260 I just wanted to ask because you have like such a intense body of work.

01:23:33.540 I assume that like the church people in the church, the modern church are, uh, are some of your main, uh, readers and you like to probably reach everybody with this, uh, which is the point of writing a book.

01:23:46.040 So, but how do you think something like this, uh, with this, the relational universe book, how do you think that that's going to be perceived by, uh, like the people in church today?

01:23:56.680 Do you think that they're going to understand this?

01:23:58.260 Because this is like, uh, it's like black belt level stuff. 1.00

01:24:03.100 And when I, when I talk to people in my church about just some of the topics that we talk on the show, like sometimes I don't, I don't feel that they really get it, but, uh, maybe it's just my, my, me doing a bad job.

01:24:16.040 What, what do you think you're, uh, how do you want to see this perceived and what do you, what do you think will, will happen within the body of Christ when they read this work?

01:24:26.880 Yeah.

01:24:27.360 Well, so I've had some early readers and, um, it's really interesting.

01:24:33.660 The, the response I've gotten so far is that people are saying it's making them cry.

01:24:37.940 Uh, so that touches me as an author, of course, because if I can, if I can strike a nerve, then I feel like I've done a pretty decent job.

01:24:44.700 Um, I, I wrote the book in such a way that I'm not invoking God.

01:24:49.440 I'm not, there's no altar call.

01:24:51.420 I'm not saying it's Jesus.

01:24:52.720 Of course, you know, you know, I do think obviously that it is Jesus, but I'm trying to talk about structure and I want to show first.

01:25:01.900 I want people to have a sense of awe and wonder, just like when you go into Notre Dame and you look up at that, that ceiling and you're like, wow, this is amazing.

01:25:10.460 That, that's what I want people to have that sense first is like, wow, this is incredible.

01:25:15.980 And then as we continue to, to look deeper and to gaze longer and say, okay, what is holding these stones up?

01:25:22.920 What principles are behind this building?

01:25:27.740 What is it that I can't see that's making all of this work?

01:25:31.620 And that's what I'm trying to get at.

01:25:34.180 And so I'm trying to not be so much on the nose that I'm just totally pointing it out for people.

01:25:42.740 I'm trying to show the principles.

01:25:44.340 I'm trying to show the architecture.

01:25:46.160 And then, you know, with enough clues and enough hints here and there, people are like, oh, I get it.

01:25:52.800 Cause there's something visceral when you get something for yourself, right?

01:25:55.840 When you have that Eureka moment, you go, ah, light bulb, right?

01:26:00.000 It's not that your teachers weren't telling you things.

01:26:02.340 It's just that it didn't click.

01:26:03.640 And then one day it clicked and then you finally got it.

01:26:07.620 And that is that moment where, you know, it just becomes so powerful.

01:26:16.000 It's the, in German, it's called the Gestalt moment.

01:26:18.880 Okay.

01:26:19.360 But it's basically Eureka, right?

01:26:21.400 Where you're like, ah, I get it.

01:26:23.980 Right.

01:26:24.180 It all comes together.

01:26:25.540 Finally, there's a, it's not just data points, but there's a coherence to the data points.

01:26:30.120 So I really work hard in all of my books to write them as simply as I can.

01:26:36.220 And it's not always easy because a lot of times there are these big concepts.

01:26:39.240 But with this one, I feel like, you know, I take the reader step-by-step and I just say, let's just go for a walk.

01:26:45.620 Let's just look through this.

01:26:47.480 Let's understand that at every level, every scale, there's relationship.

01:26:53.420 And I, you know, I talk about the battery, right?

01:26:56.180 So in the AA battery, where is the energy?

01:27:00.500 It's only when you connect the two ends that, and where is the energy?

01:27:04.180 It's, it's between them.

01:27:06.040 That's the beauty of it.

01:27:07.260 And if everything is made of energy, if everything that we hold, that we can touch is little energy packets, and yet energy is the byproduct of relationship.

01:27:21.100 And then the Bible says that God is love.

01:27:24.560 I'm hoping you're connecting all the dots here.

01:27:26.760 And I want to assume that my readers are pretty intelligent, you know?

01:27:30.040 So I'm not going to assume that they're, you know, they're all PhD.

01:27:33.980 That's not the point.

01:27:34.980 But I'm trying to write it at such a level that, you know, the average person can connect these dots.

01:27:41.440 But they're also like, yeah, that's really awesome.

01:27:45.040 So I don't know.

01:27:46.260 For me, it was really exciting to put these things together.

01:27:49.300 And I hope people get very much inspired.

01:27:52.300 And then there's all kinds of application.

01:27:54.800 And I think, you know, in the area of business as well, that once you understand, like, why do people burn out?

01:28:01.480 Why do they say, yes, I'll do it, but then they don't?

01:28:04.460 It's because there's a structural issue that has to be addressed before we start, you know, beating on people and trying to get them to do this and that.

01:28:12.140 Once the structure is fixed, then the rest of the stuff takes care of it, of its own.

01:28:17.120 That's something we've been talking about on this show for the last couple of weeks.

01:28:21.460 You do a show every day.

01:28:22.620 A lot of the same concepts kind of pop up every episode because they're on your mind.

01:28:26.520 And, you know, it's the ability to take something that is complicated.

01:28:32.840 You know, we're talking about the foundational building blocks of the universe.

01:28:38.500 But there is always a way to package a thing and present it in its rudimentary form so that it's simple and easy to understand.

01:28:47.900 And once you grasp that foundation, then there's a larger, you know, conversation that springs forth from it.

01:28:54.400 But I think it is really the mark of understanding is the ability to express it in simple terms.

01:28:59.740 And I think within this space, you know, we fail constantly to do that because these things are so big, so much bigger than even, you know, a podcast that's an hour and a half or two hours allows to expand on.

01:29:13.800 But I like what you're saying where it's like you're not smashing people over the head with it.

01:29:18.880 It's Jesus, but I think it is very important to create a thing, maybe not that, like, screams at you, it's Jesus, but if it ultimately points to Christ, right?

01:29:31.460 That's kind of the thing is like, if you're laying out a bunch of concepts, and these concepts are laid out in an understandable way, and it allows the reader to come to this conclusion of, oh, wait a second, then I think that you've, you know, you've done the job aptly.

01:29:47.600 But it also opens up your audience to people.

01:29:50.980 You know, we have a lot of people already that are just pointing at, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't, but there's a lot of people doing that.

01:29:56.620 But if you're going to be talking to other people that might not be perceptive to this thing, that's fantastic.

01:30:02.480 And that's like, that's kind of what I want this show, what we've kind of designed this show to be, where we can do a little bit of comedy, do a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and we could reach these people, maybe disaffected people, maybe people that are just, I don't know, had no interest in this stuff otherwise.

01:30:17.780 But in the end of the day, kind of like, spin them around here and go, oh, put that right over there.

01:30:23.020 Just orient them.

01:30:24.120 Just orient them.

01:30:24.620 Yeah, I mean, Jesus talks about the four kinds of soil, right?

01:30:27.560 And, you know, you've got the hard pack, you've got the stony, you've got the one that never really takes root, and then you've got the good soil.

01:30:35.560 And I think sometimes we've been shooting ourselves in the foot, you know, the church as a whole, where, you know, I grew up in the Baptist flavor, where we've got to get a sale today.

01:30:47.800 You know, we've got to get a decision right now.

01:30:50.160 Okay, before we hang up this call, I need you to say yes.

01:30:53.120 And, I mean, that works with some people, but I think a lot of people have gone through that kind of experience.

01:31:00.740 It's been very negative for them.

01:31:03.060 It was maybe forced.

01:31:04.960 It was coerced.

01:31:05.840 And now they want nothing to do with God.

01:31:08.840 I used to go to, when I lived in Southern California, I met this guy who started an atheist support group in his home.

01:31:16.580 And it was like church, but it was for atheists, you know?

01:31:20.700 And they would get up, and every Saturday night, they would give testimonies.

01:31:25.040 Yeah, I grew up in the church, and I used to believe, but then I asked my pastor a question, and he had no idea.

01:31:30.760 Or I asked him about the Nephilim, and he said, oh, don't worry about that. 0.90

01:31:33.620 You know, these skeptics had a lot of great questions.

01:31:36.040 And they went to the people in authority who said, oh, don't worry about that. 0.99

01:31:41.280 Take it by faith, or you're stupid to ask that, or any one of these things. 0.98

01:31:45.760 And they left because the institution failed them as a whole. 0.99

01:31:53.240 And so I wrote this book where I'm not trying to appeal to God.

01:31:57.300 Again, I obviously believe in God, but I'm not trying to appeal to God.

01:32:00.740 I'm trying to be a good researcher.

01:32:02.300 I'm trying to be an observer of this world.

01:32:05.040 I'm trying to be a scientist in that sense, though I, you know, I'll be the first to tell you I don't have a degree in physics or any higher science.

01:32:13.100 But, you know, I can be a student, and I can observe things, and I can hopefully make good arguments.

01:32:18.300 I'm certainly trying, and I can quote really smart people who do, right?

01:32:22.500 And so, you know, so that's what I'm trying to do.

01:32:24.980 And I'm trying to say, you know, look, Mr. Atheist, I don't want you to just say, oh, I believe in God.

01:32:30.920 I want to say, let's look at this thing together, and what do we both see?

01:32:35.080 And I feel like if we can come to common ground with a lot of people, instead of trying to bludgeon them, trying to coerce them, to guilt them into something, because it doesn't last.

01:32:45.300 And that's kind of the point of my book, is that you can force systems to hold together.

01:32:52.560 I talk about a policeman and a prisoner who are handcuffed together.

01:32:58.060 They might look like they're in alignment.

01:33:00.960 They're connected, for sure.

01:33:02.680 They're going the same direction.

01:33:05.080 But the moment you take the handcuffs off, guess what?

01:33:07.560 The prisoner's out of there.

01:33:08.580 Because it was not a mutual relationship.

01:33:11.840 It was forced.

01:33:13.340 And we see this in regimes all the time, that, yes, force can hold it together.

01:33:20.360 Force is effective for a time.

01:33:23.140 But eventually, cracks start to show.

01:33:26.040 Eventually, things fall apart because people are not in it willingly.

01:33:30.120 There has to be this participation aspect.

01:33:33.100 That's what I call intent.

01:33:35.000 There has to be this willingness to be in the relationship.

01:33:39.220 And if it's just forced, it'll hold together for a while.

01:33:42.580 But eventually, it will crack and it will crumble and fall apart.

01:33:47.140 So that is the superstructure of the universe that I am seeing at every level.

01:33:52.800 That's what's so crazy.

01:33:54.240 In a PowerPoint I'm putting together, I show this neuron.

01:33:59.300 That, you know, you see this little neuron and it's looking, what's it looking for?

01:34:04.680 It's looking for a relationship, okay?

01:34:06.820 It wants to connect to another neuron.

01:34:10.060 Because what good is one neuron?

01:34:12.140 Not good for anything.

01:34:13.640 But a neuron connected to another neuron.

01:34:16.480 Ah, that is where thought begins to take place, right?

01:34:21.480 And again, when you begin to see this at every level, that everything requires relationship.

01:34:27.220 And that even at the substrate of the universe, we start getting into string theory.

01:34:33.000 They talk about these one-dimensional vibrating strings.

01:34:36.320 I can't still, can't quite imagine what those look like.

01:34:38.820 But what's a one-dimensional object?

01:34:41.460 I don't know.

01:34:42.140 But they're all vibrating together, right?

01:34:44.900 It's the frequency of these things together that creates substance.

01:34:51.040 There's also something called the Higgs field.

01:34:53.060 And the Higgs field is what gives mass to things.

01:34:57.240 Think of it like you're on a crowded subway and the door opens.

01:35:02.580 It's your stop.

01:35:03.160 You want to get out.

01:35:03.920 And you're trying to move through all the people.

01:35:06.100 But there's a lot of people there.

01:35:07.400 And what's happening?

01:35:08.460 They're slowing you down.

01:35:09.580 They're giving you mass.

01:35:10.640 They're giving you resistance and weight.

01:35:12.480 That is what the Higgs field does.

01:35:14.840 Where is the Higgs field?

01:35:15.860 It's everywhere.

01:35:16.760 I mean, it's everywhere.

01:35:17.700 We're living in the Higgs field.

01:35:19.060 And it's this field of relationship that gives rise to substance.

01:35:26.340 I mean, is that not kind of mind-blowing?

01:35:28.220 I'm kind of blown away by that.

01:35:30.460 And so when you see this at every single level, and you begin to realize there are immutable laws

01:35:37.820 that we can't get around.

01:35:40.120 And you start wondering, well, why are things not working out at work?

01:35:43.120 Or why are things not working out in this relationship?

01:35:45.320 Or why is my house falling apart?

01:35:47.220 Well, it's the same thing.

01:35:49.080 Because you can hold things together for so long by force, but it's when things are completely

01:35:55.640 aligned.

01:35:56.280 They're all oriented in the same direction.

01:35:57.860 And they're all bearing an equal amount of the load.

01:36:00.520 They're participating in it.

01:36:02.480 Then it holds together naturally.

01:36:05.340 And again, this is where quantum physics says, hey, we live in a participatory universe.

01:36:09.280 This is what John, oh my gosh, what's this, Wheeler, John Wheeler, he talks about the participatory

01:36:17.200 universe, that we are participants, active participants.

01:36:21.180 We change how the universe works because we are participants in it.

01:36:27.580 I mean, it's just at every level.

01:36:29.960 So yeah, it, you know, if you come away a little dumbfounded from the book, that's okay.

01:36:34.180 Because I was dumbfounded when I was writing it.

01:36:37.340 I love that.

01:36:38.440 Well, I, I like what you were saying though, about instead of, uh, you can't force a person.

01:36:44.160 Right.

01:36:44.700 And, um, I was kind of thinking of the analogy of like, you have a, a plant like a tree and

01:36:50.820 sometimes like a tree transplant to another area fails and the tree dies.

01:36:54.320 It's much better to plant a seed.

01:36:56.240 And that requires patience.

01:36:58.360 And that's kind of like one of the biggest things that I'm, I'm learning.

01:37:01.240 And, but you know what though, there's a lot of, well, I don't know if there's a lot of

01:37:04.460 guys, but you and our, uh, uh, an extreme contributor to the, to the show, Ed Mabry, you

01:37:11.040 guys are in the same sort of field.

01:37:13.420 Yeah.

01:37:14.040 Uh, Ed Mabry, he has like a slight more focus, I guess, on the, the spiritual supernatural,

01:37:18.640 but as far as the scientific goes, like some of his work is right along the line.

01:37:22.680 I'd like to see a podcast with those two.

01:37:24.440 I'd like to see.

01:37:24.920 Yeah.

01:37:25.080 I mean, just an email exchange between you two guys.

01:37:27.320 I'd like to read that.

01:37:28.100 So yeah, um, fantastic minds for sure.

01:37:31.320 But yeah, there are people pushing in this direction and it's, uh, it's, it's good to

01:37:36.140 see.

01:37:36.660 Yeah.

01:37:36.900 Yeah.

01:37:37.180 And I, I would hope that it, you know, it plants some seeds and, and, uh, and that's about

01:37:40.980 all we can do.

01:37:41.480 That's what we're, I think that's the best way really to bring people to the conversation

01:37:45.420 is just planting seeds back and off and letting them get there.

01:37:47.820 But I, um, I want to bring this in for a landing and I want to, I want to ask one final

01:37:52.660 question.

01:37:52.940 It's one that we usually ask.

01:37:53.900 We haven't asked this in a long time, but I, I, uh, I'm curious.

01:37:58.580 As to the answer in this particular instance, um, you know, in, in all your pursuits, all

01:38:04.040 these, all these books that you've written and not this, not this interview, but just

01:38:08.740 in everything that you're doing, uh, are you having fun?

01:38:12.480 I am.

01:38:13.380 Yeah, I am.

01:38:14.340 And I mean, I love researching the Nephilim.

01:38:16.620 I've written, I don't know, three or four, five books on that.

01:38:20.120 Um, I love it.

01:38:21.180 It's, it's fascinating stuff, but it's also a little bit dark, you know, at the end of

01:38:25.660 the day you're like, okay, Satan's pretty darn clever.

01:38:28.100 That's depressing.

01:38:29.520 You know, you know, and I, and so I said with my, this, this book that's coming out, um,

01:38:37.720 in, uh, in May called immortal dawn.

01:38:40.200 And I'm, I'm taking the book of revelation and I'm saying, Hey, what if we put the lens

01:38:47.020 of love on this thing?

01:38:48.280 And so instead of seeing it as God who's lost his temper, how about God who loves us is coming

01:38:54.240 back and he's simply giving us a heads up?

01:38:57.360 Hey, I'm coming back and I'm made of light or I am light.

01:39:01.780 He's not made of anything.

01:39:02.580 He, he is light and, uh, the kingdom of darkness just isn't going to do so well, you know?

01:39:08.100 So come on over.

01:39:09.660 Right.

01:39:10.360 It's just, it's a totally different focus.

01:39:12.300 It's the same general story, but it's a, it's a reorientation of the story.

01:39:17.100 It's a, it's a different lens to the story.

01:39:19.500 And I think that is basically what we need.

01:39:21.740 I mean, I think there's been so much great biblical research that has been done over

01:39:25.700 the years, but sometimes we just have the, the wrong focus or the wrong lens when we're

01:39:31.460 looking at these things.

01:39:32.660 And if we just take those same data points and just reorient them and say, Oh, well, that's

01:39:37.800 a, that's a whole different way to look at it.

01:39:39.820 And it's a lot more exciting.

01:39:41.640 Love inspires all of us, right?

01:39:43.380 I mean, I'm pretty excited about love, you know, and, and I, I want to focus, you know,

01:39:47.780 my life on that instead of the darkness, the darkness is interesting, granted, but it's

01:39:53.660 dark, you know, and it can, it can lead into depression.

01:39:56.160 And then people start thinking they're Nephilim and next thing you know, they're in your emails,

01:40:01.640 they're telling you they are, you know, I, I think it's a, it's an important conversation

01:40:05.260 to have because we live in this materialist paradigm and we've been led to believe it doesn't

01:40:09.200 exist.

01:40:09.780 So in that context, like, yeah, but, but what do you talk about after you've established

01:40:13.620 that it's already exist?

01:40:14.640 A quick plug.

01:40:15.240 It's just interesting because I think Ed Mabry's book about, uh, the four horsemen of the apocalypse

01:40:19.600 drops around the same time that you're dropping this book.

01:40:22.240 And he posits that these four horsemen are not, um, a work of God, but they are a deception

01:40:28.580 of Satan.

01:40:29.100 And I don't know exactly how he's going to get to that, but it's just funny that you, I'm

01:40:32.560 telling you, you guys are both pushing in the same direction with the scientific stuff

01:40:36.040 and even with this.

01:40:37.280 So I, yeah, I really would like to see a conversation.

01:40:39.480 Especially on the relationship between us and God, God, the father and, and what he

01:40:43.480 wants for us.

01:40:44.220 And, and, you know, what love is and all these things.

01:40:46.660 I mean, it felt very much adjacent to the discussions we've had with Ed, but, um, one

01:40:51.880 more time, Dr.

01:40:52.760 Hamp, where can people find your works?

01:40:54.340 Uh, you know, how can they go and support you?

01:40:56.880 Douglas hamp.com is definitely a great place.

01:40:59.420 Um, the, um, if you want to get the physical books, those would all be on amazon.com.

01:41:04.540 So just put in Doug Hamp and my, uh, author page should come up with all of my different

01:41:10.080 books.

01:41:11.040 So, yeah.

01:41:11.960 And, uh, enough people want me to come speak.

01:41:14.140 I actually, I recently did a book, um, called, uh, God's divorce.

01:41:20.140 And, uh, that's kind of a fun book as well.

01:41:22.260 So if you ever want me back, I'm happy to talk about that one.

01:41:25.080 Is that, that, uh, kind of a mind block?

01:41:27.020 Oh, you got, you got me.

01:41:28.360 I was just going to be like, what's that next time we got to get the book for the library

01:41:33.420 where our, our studio is, is in a coffee shop that also has a Christian library in it.

01:41:38.100 And so, uh, we gotta, we gotta go to the website, get some books.

01:41:40.560 Yeah.

01:41:40.660 We'll pick up some books, put them in there.

01:41:42.020 Where, where is H at H is somewhere over there.

01:41:44.980 Yeah.

01:41:46.020 You know, there's, I'm just thinking there's a lot of Matthew Henry and the H is I'm trying

01:41:49.560 to think of who else is, uh, who else is in there.

01:41:51.520 We got to get ham in there now.

01:41:52.900 Yeah.

01:41:53.340 Left side.

01:41:53.920 There we go.

01:41:54.440 There we go.

01:41:54.980 Okay.

01:41:55.340 Perfect.

01:41:56.000 We'll, uh, we'll get some of your works in there.

01:41:57.760 Thank you for your time.

01:41:58.940 Uh, this was a great episode.

01:42:01.100 It was a great episode.

01:42:01.880 It was a good way to go into the weekend as well, guys, until next time, don't forget

01:42:06.320 to obey, submit and comply.

01:42:08.380 We'll see you later.

01:42:08.880 They bred with daughters of men, and they will do it again. 1.00

01:42:18.680 The end is written in the book, in the pages they foresaw.

01:42:26.000 Death Squad.

01:42:28.020 Death Squad.

01:42:28.620 De-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a. 0.97

01:42:31.100 Death Squad.

01:42:35.000 Death Squad. 0.91

01:42:37.120 Death Squad.

01:42:47.180 Never look.

01:42:48.380 Death Squad.

01:42:49.680 When the last trumpet sounds.

01:42:52.180 And the heaven's.

01:42:53.000 Thank you.

Nephilim Death Squad - February 05, 2026

The Relational Universe w⧸ Douglas Hamp

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