Nephilim Death Squad - The Road to Christ w⧸ Dr Steven Masood

00:00:00.000 It's Top Lops and Productions.

00:00:30.000 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad.

00:00:56.620 I am David Lee Corbo, a.k.a. The Raven.

00:00:58.960 That's Top Lobster, the father of disinformation.

00:01:01.000 Before we get into today's guest, a little reminder,

00:01:03.800 a great place to support the show is patreon.com forward slash Nephilim Death Squad.

00:01:07.880 Sign up there, gain early access to episodes before the general public,

00:01:12.020 add free listening experiences, and access to communities on Telegram,

00:01:16.240 on Discord, and on Twitter, as well as discount codes off of merchandise

00:01:20.640 from toplobster.com, where not only are you going to find all of our T-shirts

00:01:25.180 and designs that Top Lobster has made,

00:01:26.840 but you're also going to get access

00:01:28.480 to the tickets to Brohemian Grove.

00:01:30.180 That's August 8th in Wildwood, Florida.

00:01:33.340 It's a seven to eight hour ordeal.

00:01:35.320 I don't even know if I've actually said that to people.

00:01:36.940 It's going to be a long day.

00:01:38.240 You have not told people the length of this show.

00:01:39.780 No, I told them a lot of the people

00:01:41.500 that are going to be there,

00:01:42.240 but I've not told them that we're going to lock them

00:01:43.820 in one room.

00:01:44.860 Bring a diaper. 0.94

00:01:45.340 There's no bathrooms.

00:01:46.200 There's no bathrooms for eight hours, guys.

00:01:48.580 It's going to be a crazy day.

00:01:50.400 So go and get your tickets to general admission

00:01:51.880 to Bohemian Grove on TopLobster.com.

00:01:55.380 Joining us today is Dr. Masood.

00:01:57.240 This is actually somebody who is here in the studio.

00:02:01.860 I mean, for those of you who are listening,

00:02:03.260 you might not know that,

00:02:04.120 but for those of you who are watching, you can see that.

00:02:06.700 And maybe we could talk a little bit

00:02:09.400 before we get into even introducing Dr. Masood.

00:02:12.560 How did you come about meeting each other?

00:02:15.540 Because Top, you're the one who bumped into him, right?

00:02:18.680 And caught a glimpse of his testimony?

00:02:20.420 Tony? Yeah, yeah. I'll let Dr. Masood lead this if you'd like. Well, first of all, thank you so

00:02:26.960 much for asking me to come. Absolutely. This is all new for me, but here I am. There is always

00:02:33.160 the first experience and then becomes the final experience. Yeah, yeah. He said this is the last

00:02:39.200 time he's coming back. That's a fancy way of saying that. Yeah, yeah. So you do your ministry

00:02:46.960 on saturday in the back here in the library and i come to get coffee we usually don't work on

00:02:52.460 saturdays yes so i come through with my kids and i see you guys here busy at work and uh matt told

00:02:58.780 me a little bit about your testimony and then you you were kind enough to give me one of your books

00:03:02.120 i think i don't remember which uh was it this one there were yeah yeah your story was in the back

00:03:08.440 it must have been this one into the light i think there are books here at the library as well

00:03:13.780 Yes, on Saturdays, every second Saturday, I'll teach the Gospel of John here with a little bit different perspective, but also how to reach Muslims for Christ.

00:03:30.300 That's an interesting angle. Is that the perspective that you're talking about?

00:03:33.780 yes that is the perspective that we continue to do that but again unless we ourselves are built up

00:03:42.820 how can we reach other people with the gospel sure but the gospel of john is a very good to begin with 0.73

00:03:52.420 muslims because muslims do believe jesus is the word of god and the spirit of god but they don't

00:03:58.580 goal uh more than that you see he was a prophet of god yes he was sent only to the israelites

00:04:06.980 and when the time came he was not actually crucified he was taken up into heaven somebody

00:04:13.620 else was crucified and there are a group of muslims who believe that yes jesus was crucified

00:04:19.780 but he did nigh on the cross uh god saved him from the cross and later on he traveled as far

00:04:27.140 as india and died at the age of 125 130 years wow these are some of the ideas but the majority

00:04:35.540 muslims do believe that god actually took him up to himself and then one day he will come back and

00:04:42.980 help a muslim guide by the name mahdi which the name also means the guided one and they both will

00:04:53.540 then the rule the earth uh ask muslims to become uh ask christians to and jews to become muslims 0.61

00:05:01.380 or the whole world that sounds like a a little bit of a remaking of the antichrist that we 0.80

00:05:07.460 have in mind indeed okay so whatever you believe about the uh the the muslims believe about the

00:05:15.140 coming of christ that is according to the scripture the way that person would be acting to be christ

00:05:21.860 uh is similar to what the bible says about the antichrist so it's quite strange but that's the 0.69

00:05:31.520 world we are living in two billion muslims yeah this is something that you used to believe yes

00:05:37.560 and how long uh did you believe that well uh growing up as a child uh as children we were told

00:05:45.960 that this is what's going to happen and then of course there were these differing ideas

00:05:51.960 But my biggest problem was that if Muhammad is the prophet of Islam and he should be followed,

00:06:00.060 then he should be followed to the letter. 0.78

00:06:02.140 Why Islam has so many denominations?

00:06:05.100 So growing up in that type of circumstances, by age 14, 15, I decided that I should be a Sunni Muslim.

00:06:16.240 As Sunni Muslims are 85% of the world, 85% of the Muslim world are Sunni Muslims.

00:06:23.460 So that's where the whole thing started.

00:06:26.360 But before that, would you, sorry to interrupt, is Sunni, would that be comparable to like the Catholic denomination?

00:06:35.700 Okay, so more, how would that lay out as far as Islamic tradition goes, Sunni versus, I know there's Shiite and then there's many others as well.

00:06:46.240 Yes, there are Shias are about 15 percent, but then both of them are divided into small, small groups and others.

00:06:53.860 Like, for example, in Saudi Arabia, there is the Wahhabiyah. 0.89

00:06:58.340 Then among other Sunni Muslims, there are Nuri.

00:07:01.980 And of course, there are Sufi Muslims as well.

00:07:06.860 And so they are all divided.

00:07:08.020 But when it comes to kind of like outreach to the world, they all become united.

00:07:18.280 They actually say that when they don't have a common enemy, they fight among themselves. 0.63

00:07:24.720 But when they have common enemy outside, non-Muslim especially, then they unite against them. 0.93

00:07:31.400 And you must have seen that in the world playing around us as well, whether it was in Iraq, Syria and other places. 0.96

00:07:38.960 I mean, we see it. We see it among ourselves, to be honest.

00:07:43.900 Yes. Pick a faction. We'll be divided among, you know, a thousand different parcels.

00:07:48.180 And then somebody comes along with a differing opinion. We beat that guy up and then we're back to fighting.

00:07:52.620 Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But the word fight, when we talk about here in the West is more kind of conversational and debating.

00:08:01.400 and all this. But the Quranic language is very different. When it talks about fight,

00:08:07.640 it actually literally means killing. So we have to be very careful. That's why

00:08:13.860 all those references where it says, fight the infidel or the mushrikeen, the associators of 0.71

00:08:22.380 God and all this. It means it quite literally. It means literally to slaughter them. The word

00:08:29.020 is cut them up it sounds like it sounds like that yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah i wonder as as a brief 1.00

00:08:38.460 aside um what do you think about on a cultural level um you know we have muslims coming into the

00:08:47.720 country and there is this presupposition that america is built on christian values and for the 1.00

00:08:56.160 most part, that is correct. Unless you're looking into sort of the conspiracies of things, you'll

00:09:01.880 find evidence of other organizations that were at the root of America's birth. However, generally

00:09:09.060 speaking, the populace of America is considered Christian. And to me, what you're describing here

00:09:17.340 sounds very much like a water and oil situation. These things won't mix. They will maybe have

00:09:25.160 brief moments. But ultimately, once things calm down, there's going to be a separation.

00:09:29.820 Aren't we seeing a little bit of those brief moments now with somehow. And I've taken a step

00:09:35.160 back from politics because it'll drive you crazy. But it looks like the left wing is now integrating

00:09:39.320 some sort of Islamic fashions into it. Yeah. And we're talking about not mixing. Yeah. At the very 0.72

00:09:47.620 least, the conservative right would mix a little bit better with some of the tenets of, you know,

00:09:52.660 islamic thought because they are like traditionalist but the left like a blue-haired leftist 0.65

00:09:57.700 mixing with islamism doesn't make any sense yeah yes uh the strange thing is that islam as a

00:10:05.060 religion and politics together it allows that for a greater purpose you can align uh temporarily

00:10:15.460 would that be the concept of people who may be your enemies but you can align them

00:10:21.060 so to defeat a greater enemy so that is the quran permits this yes the quran permits that

00:10:27.140 and the traditions of islam permits muhammad did it himself as well so the prophet of islam himself

00:10:34.100 is the uh kind of great example for muslims for example he migrated migration is a big thing for

00:10:43.880 them uh and then of course through migration into another city he became more and more powerful

00:10:49.620 and then, of course, spread himself further into the whole of Arabia.

00:10:54.820 And then after his death, his people followed because he made it clear.

00:11:01.360 So in the beginning, he was very lovey-dovey that, okay,

00:11:05.780 for you is your fate and for me is my fate.

00:11:09.380 If you don't want to believe in me, that's okay.

00:11:11.780 Live and let live, kind of, yeah.

00:11:13.460 Live and let live.

00:11:14.640 And he would say that it doesn't matter if you are a Zoroastrian,

00:11:17.820 Zoroastrian, if you are a Jew, if you are a Christian, if you believe in God and on the

00:11:23.020 day of judgment, all will be okay. Oh, interesting. However, after 13 years preaching that, he started 0.95

00:11:31.720 changing because now he had a good following. So he said, well, God has changed his mind

00:11:36.940 before all those passages which were given to you through me. They should not be followed anymore.

00:11:45.140 So there is a theory of abrogation.

00:11:48.120 Here I have written a book, Can God's Word Change?

00:11:52.580 Naskh abrogation in the Quran and the Bible.

00:11:55.660 They say that earlier passages which were revealed to him, they are abrogated.

00:12:00.860 So all those friendly passages that they should not be followed now, it's not lakum dina kum wal yadeen.

00:12:08.740 For you is your fate and for me is my fate. 0.98

00:12:10.680 No, in the dina, in the Islam, that in God's sight, only Islam is acceptable. 0.65

00:12:17.960 And if you do not do that, then there is a problem. 0.97

00:12:21.440 So it goes from live and let live to fight the infidel. 1.00

00:12:25.440 Yes. So it says we love peace, but this peace should be established the way we want it. 0.97

00:12:33.440 It's funny.

00:12:34.260 Submission.

00:12:35.760 Yeah, through power.

00:12:36.820 Through power, then peace will be out. 0.99

00:12:39.160 Even when Jesus comes back and side with the Mahdi, they both will fight the Jews and the Christians and all the infidels to spread not only the Islamic army and the news of Islam, but to establish Islam by submission. 0.99

00:12:58.480 and once that people have submitted then his work will be done he will go will marry will have 0.98

00:13:05.240 children and then later on he will die and will be buried next to muhammad's grave in medina and

00:13:13.880 of course after that there will be a judgment day so these are some of the ideas in in the bible

00:13:19.640 it talks about um not being equally yoked with unbelievers and it also tells us to uh

00:13:29.000 be in the world but not of it and it's fascinating because it does sound to me like that stands

00:13:35.280 in stark contrast to the quran permitting the idea of unifying with anybody that is in opposition 0.69

00:13:45.300 to your ideology in order to grow until it no longer furthers your needs and then you cut this

00:13:52.160 off he mentioned that this weird tenant as well where i said i don't understand the attraction to

00:13:56.140 the liberal left wing right now but that's exactly what they do they do uh it's like a

00:14:01.100 old love and flowers in the beginning and uh very like you know includes inclusivity but then at the

00:14:07.300 end it turns into or else yes and that or else is put this in your arm or so they look at you 0.98

00:14:13.240 as useful idiots to to propagate their ideology yes for a time yes uh the biggest problem which 0.99

00:14:20.540 uh the west does not realize that islam itself says in the dina in the lahil islam 1.00

00:14:28.600 islam is the only religion acceptable in god's eyes but then it also says that islam is not

00:14:37.900 only a religion but also a governmental system uh-huh oh that gets tricky yeah it does so al-islam

00:14:46.700 ad-deen with dawla islam is not just ad-deen which means religion but also a governmental system

00:14:55.900 so now you start thinking how to now cope with that well for that like governmental systems and

00:15:04.380 others when they are under an occupation and other they have a different approach once they

00:15:10.460 become independent then they have a different approach the same following the prophet of

00:15:16.860 islam muslims do the same that if they can't fight them join them but join them in what way to 0.91

00:15:26.300 get their favor in your side on your side yeah and then one day when you are uh strong enough 0.99

00:15:33.180 take control that is the uh government equivalency of a parasite well that's that's 1.00

00:15:42.600 what governments generally do there's like the brown shirts will be the useful idiots for uh 1.00

00:15:47.580 the bolsheviks or whatever and then once they get once they achieve what they need to achieve 0.99

00:15:52.080 they're the first ones against the wall yeah so like this is like it's honestly it's not it's

00:15:56.180 history on repeat it's really not that genius of an idea well i mean but it's it's it is the way

00:16:00.900 the world in that in that instance that you've laid out and that is not something that you'll

00:16:05.860 find we're commanded to do in scripture the bible doesn't have this idea of co-opting a thing

00:16:12.900 draining it of its resources and then taking it over yeah the new testament jesus specifically

00:16:18.260 makes a delineation between himself and the governmental system even the money he's like no

00:16:22.660 no we're doing this over here give to caesar what is owed to caesar i'm not here to do any political

00:16:27.540 stuff that's that's the reason that judas betrayed him in a way right because he thought he would he

00:16:32.560 would overthrow the system he's like i'm not here for that this is like a much bigger picture and

00:16:36.820 even uh when it comes to behavioral system he clearly said your yes should be yes and your no

00:16:44.400 should be no that's the way whether you are in a political situation and whether you are

00:16:51.600 in a biblical world in the church, that's the way to be.

00:16:57.900 Islam has a very different approach to it,

00:17:01.560 that yes, you should not lie,

00:17:05.320 but when it comes to a greater purpose,

00:17:11.660 so what greater purpose can be to dominate the world for God?

00:17:17.900 So in that context, all means justify the ends.

00:17:23.040 If you're willing to kill and you're willing to lie and all of these things in order to further the will of God, then virtually everything is permissible.

00:17:34.880 Yes. But then the question comes, is it God's will?

00:17:39.820 That whatever you are doing.

00:17:41.560 So they go for a greater thing.

00:17:43.560 they will say, well, eventually the kingdom of God has to be established by us.

00:17:49.300 They go for the replacement theology as known to us is this thing. 0.82

00:17:55.760 So seeing the replacement theology, this is what Muhammad then introduced

00:18:00.320 because he saw these Christians had this replacement theology 0.89

00:18:05.320 that perhaps God finished with Israel

00:18:07.420 and now have given the kingdom of God to be established to Christians.

00:18:13.780 But then Christians went and they exalted Jesus to the level of divinity. 0.90

00:18:19.940 So God took the kingdom of God from them, the responsibility, 0.99

00:18:24.760 and given to Muslims as an ummah, the community, to establish that. 1.00

00:18:29.640 And so this is what Muslims are saying,

00:18:31.600 that our next goal or the biggest goal is to establish the kingdom of God on this earth 0.93

00:18:38.480 in order for the Islamization of the whole world. 0.98

00:18:42.100 That is the idea. 0.99

00:18:43.980 Of course, they tried their best through Spain.

00:18:47.560 They entered into Europe and only a few miles from Paris they were there.

00:18:54.500 But then, of course, Charles Martel in the 8th century kind of pushed them back

00:19:00.320 And then a lot of other things happened, so they stuck to the Middle East and continued.

00:19:06.740 And then eventually, several hundred years later, the Ottoman Empire was established, which was in Istanbul in Turkey.

00:19:18.140 And by 1924, everything kind of like disseminated for them because the British Empire took over and the Ottoman Empire came down. 0.77

00:19:27.440 But they always had these things.

00:19:31.460 Well, it seems like they're being a little more successful now.

00:19:33.680 I'm looking at migration habits throughout Europe.

00:19:37.060 I have a friend that was just in Paris, and he said it's kind of Islamic there. 0.83

00:19:41.800 There's not really any people from Paris there anymore, which is kind of interesting.

00:19:47.580 But again, I don't know how successful they'll be with this plan because there is pushback.

00:19:52.320 there is hard pushback from people but it comes it comes from a like a weird angle that that is

00:19:59.040 more uh i guess people are applying race to it more than uh just you know i don't know i i agree

00:20:06.860 with them i agree with them in a sense because they they want to retain their culture and they

00:20:10.180 are in a sense being invaded in this very soft way but then once they get there it's not so soft

00:20:15.500 that invasion is is also facilitated by so you'll see the difference in places that are having success 0.99

00:20:20.800 in you know maintaining whatever it is they hope to and pushing out the muslims those places haven't 0.96

00:20:27.340 fully uh fallen to leftist ideology so once again it's that parasitic nature of attaching to leftist 0.99

00:20:34.100 ideology because they are currently this um the the useful idiots right and we had well i do like 0.90

00:20:40.820 i do enjoy that dynamic very much they're like they're so leftist that they invite this open 0.99

00:20:47.840 immigration and then they'll get a lot of muslim inhabitants and and migrants there and then the 0.90

00:20:54.060 muslim migrants will protest their uh drag queen story hour yeah this is kind of hilarious if it 0.98

00:20:59.920 wasn't so tragic we had uh there's people that actually visit the coffee shop and they were um 0.96

00:21:06.480 they were here today they were oh were they yeah they were taking footage of chas the fully

00:21:11.460 autonomous zone in seattle washington was that seattle and you know so this thing starts off

00:21:17.820 as an amalgamation of leftist ideology and uh black lives matter you name it but over time

00:21:26.140 what became more and more prevalent within the movement was muslims and they were explaining 0.78

00:21:32.740 how they watched this thing develop it's co-opted by muslims they throw their hat into the arena 0.50

00:21:39.940 with everything else black lives matter lgbtq rights you name it whatever it takes to to 0.95

00:21:45.200 propagate their ideology is that called takia would that be the yes okay what's that what's

00:21:50.120 takia yeah is a type of ideology which means that you don't show all your cards

00:22:01.420 you keep it to yourself the real purpose of it but you just say to be very very friendly

00:22:09.480 So that is the doctrine. The doctrine is that if you are in approach, you can't stand in your face or in somebody else's face directly about Islam.

00:22:23.160 Then what you do is you become one of them. 0.98

00:22:27.580 Wow.

00:22:28.120 I had a conversation with, he's a nice dude, Islamic dude, and we were talking a little bit about that.

00:22:35.080 And I got a lot of the same things that you were saying, their view on Jesus.

00:22:39.480 And then I asked him about Paul and he did not like Paul.

00:22:43.040 They, he says that they reject Paul.

00:22:44.680 And I was like, that's really interesting.

00:22:45.720 But cause I was, I was just feeling around and seeing where we don't agree because it

00:22:51.100 seemed like you're, he was, he was giving me a lot of focus on how we do agree.

00:22:55.220 Yeah.

00:22:56.060 And that's fine.

00:22:57.080 But excuse my language. 0.99

00:22:58.160 It's a little bullshit. 0.98

00:22:58.960 I know, you know, people are, people are people. 0.99

00:23:01.220 So I like to sift through, well, what do you really think?

00:23:04.400 Yeah.

00:23:04.520 And then we got to that.

00:23:05.440 I was like, oh, that's interesting.

00:23:06.140 You don't like Paul's teaching because Paul's teaching is a little bit more in your face.

00:23:09.700 And it's just, it's slightly different.

00:23:12.340 It's slightly different there.

00:23:13.440 And it pulls away from what, I guess, what he would like to adhere to.

00:23:17.280 It was an interesting moment.

00:23:19.700 Well, Paul's teaching is the expansion of what the kingdom of God is all about.

00:23:25.580 But as John says that the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Christ.

00:23:36.140 So, Paul plays more on the word grace again and again, so much so that while the Catholic Church forgot about it, Martin Luther comes along and the Lutheran Church establishes and they talk about grace.

00:23:55.060 although our friend Luther went in a little bit another direction

00:24:01.420 thinking that God had finished with the Jewish people

00:24:04.680 and not from Romans he got the situation of grace understanding

00:24:10.820 yet he forgot to see how Paul was talking in chapter 9, 10, 11

00:24:17.120 about that how God has not finished with Israel

00:24:20.640 the time has been given to the Gentiles

00:24:23.340 and when their time is over, God is going to pay attention back to them as well. Anyway, 0.98

00:24:31.040 those are some of the things which are there. But when you look at it, the way God selects

00:24:38.620 people, in his case, he was selected so that he will be an outreach type of person to the

00:24:49.740 gentile people however it was not paul's own idea it was jesus's himself's idea even from the time

00:24:58.640 of abraham as abraham was promised that god will uh do these things and other nations will be

00:25:05.820 blessed in john chapter uh 10 is that the genesis 12 that you're you're referencing yes okay yes

00:25:12.420 12 and 15 but then in john chapter 10 now jesus comes on the scene and he said before abraham was

00:25:19.380 and i am abraham saw my day and was glad two chapters later on uh in john 10 jesus says i'm

00:25:29.140 the good shepherd and then he talks about the relationship between the shepherd and

00:25:34.460 the sheep but then at the same time he says and i have other sheep too whom i have to bring which

00:25:42.440 are of not this fold. In other words, they are non-Israelite. So nothing to do with Paul. Jesus 0.92

00:25:49.100 had already thought about it, that he would be bringing all these people. How is he going to do

00:25:55.580 this? Well, in the same Gospel of John, since we have been talking about that, in John chapter 20,

00:26:03.200 Jesus says, as the Father has sent me, he's addressing his apostles and disciples, telling

00:26:11.080 them i send you now so of course we know as in gospel according to matthew the great commission

00:26:17.820 and that great commission was to go into all the world the all the world was not just the

00:26:24.720 israelis there were other people and this is why we see in peter's ministry that he reaches

00:26:31.960 uh carnelius carnelius like in the book of facts mentioned uh he was a gentile but he was a god

00:26:39.960 fearing person and even Peter was surprised that God had chosen him to that he should hear the news

00:26:47.420 and it is because of that that they realized that yes uh this is what Jesus had said that

00:26:54.860 they will be the witnesses first in Judea, Samaria, in Jerusalem and all these places

00:27:01.220 and then to the uttermost part of the world and then they realized that oh this is what God is

00:27:09.860 doing. And this is why Paul then comes along and he says, well, for the Jews, I became a Jew and

00:27:17.500 for the Gentile, I became a Gentile. And of course, the first church was established outside

00:27:23.880 Jerusalem was in Antioch. And that was the area when people were called first Christians. Before

00:27:30.180 that, they were called the people of the way. So all these things, when we see that this Christ

00:27:36.140 was not just for the israelite but also for the whole world so this is what was going to happen

00:27:44.780 this is why in letter to the hebrews it clearly says uh that although god spoke to our forefathers

00:27:51.500 through many ways in these last days god has spoken to us through his son period see this was

00:27:59.340 my dilemma as a muslim i wanted to reach to become a good preacher and teacher of islam so to reach

00:28:09.420 other people so like you send friends to a seminary they muslims also have a seminary so as a working

00:28:17.660 student i was there but one thing was clear right from my childhood this had been my biggest problem

00:28:25.660 And sometime I would go into trouble for that.

00:28:28.520 And the trouble was when I was asked something, I would say, why, when, where, how, what?

00:28:35.580 Me too.

00:28:35.940 Those are those questions that get you in trouble.

00:28:38.480 Yeah.

00:28:38.820 Yes, there are often things were that they were not answerable, but still I want to understand.

00:28:47.480 So how can I become a good salesperson for Islam, a missionary, a moballig, they will call it,

00:28:54.080 to do Dawah. Dawah means invitation. It's like equal to evangelism. Exactly. So how can I do

00:29:03.460 that? First, I have to understand. Sure. And it was there that from age 16 to 20, I realized that,

00:29:12.160 well, Islam is a work-related religion from morning till evening.

00:29:16.820 but does it say that god will give me that eternal life we look for the life in the

00:29:28.940 paradise of god are you you're asking if you're guaranteed that yes right that's what i was

00:29:34.380 asking well it was always the word was the arabic word was inshallah if allah wills okay i gave in

00:29:43.260 I said that will be the case. In my fourth year, I come across the traditions of Islam. 0.90

00:29:50.280 The Islamic holy book is the size of the New Testament. I wish I had brought a copy here,

00:29:56.180 but you can look online and you can see that. But then Muslims, to interpret those passages, 1.00

00:30:06.200 Muhammad has what Muhammad said, what Muhammad did, and a lot of other things what he had

00:30:12.360 done or has been seen done, they are collected into the traditions of Islam.

00:30:18.040 You know, like our Jewish friends have the Torah and then they have Talmudic books.

00:30:21.820 In the same way, Muslims have these traditions, what Muhammad said, what Muhammad did. 0.93

00:30:29.620 So without that, Islam is not very much comprehensible. 0.60

00:30:35.320 For example, the Quran says aqamu salat, in other words, or aqimu salat, that establish your prayer. 0.79

00:30:45.060 Now, Muslims have these five obligatory prayers, where they come from. 0.93

00:30:50.500 While the Quran says only establish your prayer in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening, like the Jewish people. 0.98

00:30:57.620 Muhammad wanted to follow that in the beginning.

00:30:59.820 But later on, he changed his mind.

00:31:02.600 And he wanted to make it a little more extensive for his Muslim people. 0.99

00:31:08.920 So they followed. 1.00

00:31:10.400 Why?

00:31:10.980 What do you recite in those prayers?

00:31:13.780 It's all in the traditions of Islam.

00:31:16.040 So you see that is all there.

00:31:17.980 So in my fourth year, when I was studying all this, I realized there is a traditions of Islam, not just one place, but several places.

00:31:26.220 Muhammad said oh people listen by your works you cannot enter into the paradise of God

00:31:35.620 but only by God's grace and mercy interesting wait a minute what happened here so people asked him

00:31:44.720 the next thing it shows in that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim both places it shows that Muhammad

00:31:53.120 was asked, what about you, O prophet of God? He said, not even me can enter the paradise of God

00:31:59.240 unless God covers me with his grace and mercy. And these two Arabic words just stuck in my mind,

00:32:08.560 fadal and rehma, grace and mercy. So how does one get that grace and mercy? But then again,

00:32:15.380 they said, well, we have to continue. So I continued. But then something happened. There

00:32:20.160 was war between India and Pakistan in 1971 at the question of East Pakistan, which became

00:32:26.360 Bangladesh later. Like anybody else, I was afraid of death. Not very much afraid of it, but what

00:32:33.240 would be my results be? Would I finish in hell or would I finish in the paradise of God? So I've

00:32:44.040 been praying and asking and recitation of the quran i was doing and in my mind because i had

00:32:51.100 memorized the whole of the quran i started reciting a portion of the quran which is chapter three of

00:32:57.720 the quran verse 84 and that is the exposition of faith the exposition of faith is that i as a

00:33:04.480 muslim believe whatever god revealed to abraham isaac and jacob and several other and then it

00:33:10.340 goes on to the tribes to the prophets and then especially says that i believe whatever was

00:33:17.180 revealed to moses and jesus and as a muslim i do not make any distinction among them can you

00:33:27.220 imagine the arabic words that whatever was given to jesus and moses

00:33:35.680 I, as a Muslim, do not make any distinction among them.

00:33:42.320 Why would they ask you to do that?

00:33:44.660 Well, the Quran clearly says that our faith is incomplete without believing in Moses and Jesus.

00:33:53.980 But here was the catch.

00:33:55.680 We Muslims grew up from childhood.

00:33:58.600 Oh, yes, we believe in the earlier scripture, i.e. the Torah and the gospel or the Injil.

00:34:05.100 but they are corrupted that's why the quran was sent that was their idea didn't god know 0.93

00:34:13.100 that very night i started asking questions at age 20 21 now thinking wait a minute 0.91

00:34:20.420 didn't god know that they've been corrupted so why would god say to believe in something

00:34:26.260 which is corrupted that's a contradiction and god's not a contradiction and god is not

00:34:31.300 contradiction well when the raid was over the siren was given that is all clear now so i started

00:34:38.500 reading the quran and the quran clearly says that there is guidance and light in the torah and in

00:34:45.700 the injil and let the people of the gospel in other words i.e christians judge by what is revealed in

00:34:52.020 it now this was in the sixth and seventh century i started thinking and i said okay i should

00:35:01.300 read this. And so, of course, although at age 13, I had received the Gospel of John,

00:35:08.240 at age 15, I had been given a Gideon New Testament. Now here...

00:35:12.980 Were those things legal? Like, were you in trouble having these things?

00:35:16.080 Yes, I have been, but that's another story. Otherwise, we'll be here for quite a few hours.

00:35:24.000 But anyway, but I didn't believe that, yes, the Bible was corrupted at that time. But now,

00:35:29.420 the Quran and the traditions of Islam were my path. And I said, but the Quran does not say

00:35:37.080 that they've been corrupted. If they have been corrupted and these people have been really

00:35:41.320 corrupting, okay, meaning is another thing. But does giving an invitation, does it mean we are

00:35:47.900 corrupting? Yes, in a way you are corrupting, but that does not mean you literally corrupted

00:35:52.460 the scripture. The scripture cannot be relied upon. That convinced me to go and get the Bible.

00:35:58.540 And when I started reading it, I realized, wait a minute, the law was given already through Moses.

00:36:06.640 So when we talk about Sharia or Islamic law, what good is it? 0.66

00:36:10.900 It was already given.

00:36:12.620 We repackaged it and gave it to the world.

00:36:15.420 That's very strange.

00:36:17.060 We know that the law condemns us.

00:36:20.820 It waits for you like a police officer.

00:36:23.020 You made a wrong turn.

00:36:25.240 You got in big trouble.

00:36:26.440 And that's what the law of God is all about.

00:36:30.680 We need his grace.

00:36:32.920 And that grace has already been revealed through Christ.

00:36:37.300 Someone had to fulfill.

00:36:39.100 Because if as a Muslim I believed in Jesus, then what was his mission? 1.00

00:36:46.460 Right. 1.00

00:36:47.400 Everything is then incomplete.

00:36:50.180 Well, they say, oh, his mission will be complete when he comes back.

00:36:54.800 Half truth.

00:36:55.880 So where in the Quran does it talk about the sort of the adjustments to Jesus's story,

00:37:03.340 this idea that he was saved from the cross, that's in the Quran?

00:37:07.020 Yes, it's only one passage in the Quran.

00:37:09.800 Can you imagine, towards every gospel you pick up, there are two, three chapters,

00:37:15.580 or at least what was happening in the last days of Jesus on this earth.

00:37:20.140 It's all there.

00:37:21.100 In the Quran, there is only one passage in chapter 4 of the Quran, it appears, and it will say,

00:37:29.600 وَمَا قَتَلُّهُ وَمَا سَلَبُّهُ

00:37:31.480 They did not kill him nor crucified him.

00:37:34.440 So chapter 4, verse 157 and 158 mentions.

00:37:39.340 But here there is a, you have to check, you know, like as believer in Christ,

00:37:44.460 We know that the study, when you are studying the Bible, you look at the context and you check these things for yourself.

00:37:54.040 And when you check the context, then according to the context, when we check the Quran, 0.62

00:38:00.040 we find that what the Quran is saying that those Jews who are saying we killed the Messiah, they did not.

00:38:09.420 They were not the one who crucified.

00:38:11.780 Well, practically, it were the Romans who did it. 0.98

00:38:15.620 Yes, they were involved in it, but God's plan was much better. 0.89

00:38:20.620 Even Jesus himself said to Pilate, had it not been given to you from above, you will

00:38:27.200 have nothing over me.

00:38:29.360 So Jesus himself took the initiative, the yes, to fulfill God's plan.

00:38:35.360 And that couldn't be understood. 1.00

00:38:36.980 that's why muslims do not understand this situation because they know about moses 0.86

00:38:43.540 but and they think they know about aaron but they don't know about the tabernacle about the

00:38:49.540 sacrifices about what was in the book of leviticus this is why the letter to the hebrews in the new

00:38:57.700 testament refers to all that how jesus is the fulfillment of not only those sacrifices but

00:39:05.940 being the high priest and also himself offering for you and me for once for all and that is missing

00:39:14.920 in islam they don't understand that so what oh go ahead oh no i'm just uh the the uh sermon that 0.66

00:39:22.460 pastor rick preached on this week was actually really cool oh yeah the i am a worm yeah yeah so 0.65

00:39:28.160 parts of isaiah and also like from jesus's own speech where he refers to himself as a worm but

00:39:32.760 in the latin job refers to that too as well right yeah but that's it right job and uh the specific

00:39:40.040 type of worm that in the greek that he's talking talking about himself as his uh crimson worm then

00:39:45.460 that worm climbs up a tree it dies for its children it adheres to the to the tree and it

00:39:51.400 looks like a bloody mess on the tree it's really fascinating when when you start to look into it so

00:39:55.840 it's like it's prophesied exactly what he's supposed to do what he's going to do and they

00:40:00.640 they don't they miss it or they don't pay attention that was actually going to be my

00:40:04.040 question because so much of the old testament prophesies the coming of christ and you know

00:40:10.320 dying on the cross and overcoming all these things are prophesied a lot of types of christ

00:40:14.580 over and over again throughout the old testament if you remove that element and you say they did

00:40:20.320 not crucify him you've removed an element that makes now the prophecy makes no sense and the

00:40:28.360 story makes no sense he never came to do what was prophesied that he was going to do and i think

00:40:35.760 you know some some theologians have it upwards to like 300 plus different prophecies of jesus

00:40:43.360 christ coming so if you remove that well now the bible's a contradiction the bible's a

00:40:48.400 contradiction and it almost it almost has no value because everything points to this event

00:40:53.420 And that's what Satan wants.

00:40:55.640 Yeah. 1.00

00:40:56.200 And that's what Islam is all about. 1.00

00:40:58.840 Because indirectly, you believe in Moses, yet you do not believe what Moses said. 1.00

00:41:04.540 You believe in all the prophets among the Israelites were born.

00:41:08.900 And what those prophets said, you do not want to believe.

00:41:11.680 In other words, indirectly, you are making them liars.

00:41:14.120 Yeah.

00:41:15.100 Yeah.

00:41:15.340 Because if Jesus had not been crucified, did not die, and not risen victoriously, this is the important thing.

00:41:23.980 You know, we all want to be on the winning team and even supportive of it.

00:41:30.180 But that's what Jesus shows. 0.60

00:41:32.520 When Muslims say, oh, why would God allow that an innocent prophet be killed?

00:41:39.960 Look at the victorious resurrection.

00:41:43.400 Oh, yeah.

00:41:43.760 He gained victory over death, not to die again.

00:41:48.320 So what he did for us, now it is quite clear that I did it for you.

00:41:54.360 Now by believing in me, you will have eternal life.

00:41:57.680 It's the biggest win.

00:41:58.840 Yeah.

00:41:59.200 See, these were the things which I was saying that, okay, if we believe in the Torah and

00:42:05.400 in the books of the prophets and all that, why we do not read it?

00:42:10.380 And when I started reading it, I said to myself, so where does Islam and Muhammad fit in? 0.94

00:42:17.640 And I realized, no, he doesn't. 0.59

00:42:20.800 And I was quite shocked.

00:42:22.520 And then further studying these things, I realized that I couldn't be a Muslim.

00:42:29.580 In a way, I'm still a Muslim.

00:42:32.040 The word Muslim means a person who has surrendered himself to God. 0.79

00:42:36.140 Islam means surrender, right? 1.00

00:42:37.760 Yes. 1.00

00:42:38.020 Yes. And a Muslim person is called the Muslim. He means that he has surrendered himself to God.

00:42:47.340 So my surrender to God through Christ, in that way, I'm a Muslim too.

00:42:52.200 But I believe that I'm known as a Christian by his name or by his title.

00:43:00.040 But would you say then that so because when I look at Muslims and I see I see those that are practicing in earnest faith, it does look like they are genuinely surrendering.

00:43:12.560 And like you said, they want to be on the right side. It seems like people that want to be on the right side.

00:43:15.900 This is what they've heard. This is what they think is right.

00:43:18.180 Are you suggesting that they are surrendering to something that is not God?

00:43:22.740 That is not God.

00:43:23.620 Like completely not God.

00:43:25.320 Yes. Just to give you one example.

00:43:27.920 uh when we see the continuity of the torah the books of the prophets and the gospel

00:43:36.440 just think about angel gibral just give you one example angel gibral comes to daniel and then

00:43:44.940 another place who he comes to we see clearly how he comes to mary and this story is also mentioned

00:43:53.760 in the Quran about Mary.

00:43:56.160 Now, Angel Gabriel comes to Mary.

00:43:58.740 The gospel according to Luke says clearly

00:44:01.020 that Angel Gabriel was quite clear.

00:44:03.380 He says, because of the essence this child has,

00:44:07.960 he will be called, who?

00:44:09.700 The son of God.

00:44:11.420 Luke chapter one, verse 32.

00:44:13.660 Luke chapter one, verse 35, both says.

00:44:16.320 Now, 600 years later,

00:44:20.720 if it is the same Angel Gabriel 0.81

00:44:22.400 comes to Muhammad

00:44:23.840 because Muhammad said it was Angel 0.52

00:44:26.320 Gabriel telling him. This Angel 0.81

00:44:28.280 Gabriel tell him that those people 0.96

00:44:30.360 who believe Jesus is the Son of God, they

00:44:32.200 are blasphemers.

00:44:34.340 Did God forget?

00:44:36.760 Did the angel forget?

00:44:38.460 What happened? Well,

00:44:40.280 you know and I know, and that

00:44:42.360 is the scripture clearly

00:44:43.780 says Satan

00:44:46.180 masquerades as an angel

00:44:48.420 of light. Right. It allows you

00:44:50.360 to test the spirits as well. Was that

00:44:52.160 Is that mentioned in the Quran?

00:44:53.540 Specifically to say, who is Jesus?

00:44:57.240 Do you confess that Jesus is the son of the living God?

00:45:00.180 Is one of the ways that you're meant to test the spirits? 1.00

00:45:02.980 Yes, Islam does not. 0.84

00:45:04.800 First John clearly says that a person who does not believe Jesus is the son of God 0.99

00:45:09.080 has the spirit of Antichrist in him.

00:45:14.160 So here is a situation I was facing.

00:45:19.160 and I said so what should I do and it was in that direction I realized that here I am

00:45:28.320 I need Jesus and that's where the whole thing changed and one day I was just standing like 0.99

00:45:38.860 any Muslims all these Muslims the very first chapter of the Quran and 112th chapter of the 0.99

00:45:44.940 Quran they recite in their prayers every Muslim so the first chapter which they

00:45:51.720 recite there is a verse which says oh God show me the way and here I'm

00:46:01.620 standing be careful I'm standing on the mat and in the back of my mind I hear

00:46:09.560 jesus anahuasirat i am the way yeah of course you know which i'm quoting sure he said i'm the way

00:46:16.880 the life and the truth no one can come to the father but only through me do you imagine that

00:46:23.180 here jesus calling him the son of god the son of man and then also calling god as his father

00:46:31.560 and our father the quran says the quran does not say that the quran says our relationship with god

00:46:42.560 is him only our master and we only his servants again half truth and that's what satan does

00:46:53.060 always presenting half truth but not the full truth because satan does not want to see

00:46:59.320 human beings becoming the children of god yeah because god paved the way that that's the whole

00:47:06.700 problem right that's the whole thing that's got him upset it reminds me of the we were we were

00:47:11.140 going through the uh the story of gideon and uh it's one where it's like i don't know i guess you

00:47:15.960 can read it and say did he have faith or but but he's he's testing god he's he's so god is in a

00:47:21.680 sense asking him for a relationship with him he's like yeah go ahead ask and then he goes well then

00:47:26.340 make that you know make the fleece wet and make it not wet the next day make the grass wet and

00:47:31.820 god's like yeah let's do let's play that game like he'll wrestle with you so it's not just a

00:47:36.260 relationship where he's referring to didion right yeah yeah yeah but i'm saying the relationship

00:47:42.280 with god is not just servant master he's although he is you know show some respect but he's he kind

00:47:48.100 of in a way calls you out and he's like all right let's let's wrestle and that's not what a king

00:47:52.200 does somebody that rules over you only there's there's a relationship there that yeah needs to

00:47:57.040 be discovered yes as you mentioned about this story um and the gideon story you already know

00:48:03.380 that how uh his god wanted his army to be cut down so he will only rely on god and came to

00:48:11.220 about 300 people and lapping water and all that do you have any insight on that why

00:48:17.040 it's god wants to show you that he doesn't care that you have to be etiquette fully and all this

00:48:25.940 other thing and uh he's but that was just a sign for him but anyway if it is the same god giving

00:48:33.900 the quran to muhammad did god forget that it was gideon that it this thing happened in the time of

00:48:42.900 Gideon, but the Quran refers to that it happened in the time of Saul. Oh, interesting. So there's

00:48:50.580 an incontinuity there, huh? Yes, there are things which have been kind of taken out of context

00:48:56.460 and say, well, we human beings forget. Sure we do. And did God forget or Angel Gabriel forget

00:49:05.680 to give that information to muhammad clearly there are many other uh problems with the quran as well

00:49:13.960 but we will not go into the detail but above all the biggest thing is that in the quran itself

00:49:19.920 muhammad has been mentioned god tells him to tell people in the basharun mislukum i'm a mortal man

00:49:27.660 like you ladri i don't know and it goes on i do not know what will happen to me or to you i only

00:49:35.140 say these things which inspire in me now question comes and my question is because we are living now

00:49:43.680 in the 21st century which gps would you follow here is jesus he says i know where i come from

00:49:51.480 i know where i'm going believe in me and you will have eternal life

00:49:56.420 is gps muhammad's gps you would follow or is the gps who already know where he's coming from

00:50:06.540 he can take you he is your guide or the gps it says i don't know and so here i i am saying

00:50:14.500 that my muslim friend 600 years before muhammad god heard your prayer in the past

00:50:26.300 and you perform your prayer and ask God, show me the way.

00:50:31.920 And Jesus already answered that prayer.

00:50:34.780 I am the way.

00:50:36.640 Would you follow him?

00:50:38.560 Well, my Muslim friend, it's up to you.

00:50:42.060 I submitted myself.

00:50:45.180 And of course, three years later at age 23,

00:50:48.660 I became a follower of Christ.

00:50:52.020 And I'm thankful for that.

00:50:53.640 A lot of other people then disciple me further

00:50:56.100 to help me to grow in Christ.

00:50:59.880 X, can you, you know, we started this conversation

00:51:02.320 and we just started rolling.

00:51:04.160 Oh, we should probably talk about

00:51:05.520 where people can find these books

00:51:07.020 and his website and everything.

00:51:08.820 So you have a ministry, Jesus to Muslims,

00:51:10.840 and that's a little preface of, I guess,

00:51:12.700 how you got here,

00:51:14.560 but can you tell us a little bit about the website

00:51:15.980 and what you're doing and all that?

00:51:18.020 Yes, well, the website is there.

00:51:20.420 It's self-explanatory.

00:51:22.460 We equip Christians on Islam and biblical approach.

00:51:29.140 And then we also reach Muslims for Christ.

00:51:33.900 We have leaflets.

00:51:36.680 So let me show you these that we have produced to give to.

00:51:47.200 Oh, like little tracks.

00:51:49.120 Yes, little tracks.

00:51:50.340 Right. 0.99

00:51:50.740 See here, like one gospel, Muslims always say, what gospel did Jesus preach? 0.99

00:51:57.260 There was only one gospel. 0.99

00:51:58.620 You people got four gospels.

00:52:01.680 So this answers that question.

00:52:04.600 Muslims believe that Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son. 0.96

00:52:10.020 Yeah.

00:52:10.580 And in one of the chapters, Abraham was told,

00:52:14.640 and we ransomed Abraham with a great sacrifice.

00:52:19.500 Jesus said in the gospel, it is written before Abraham was, I am Abraham saw my day and was glad.

00:52:27.700 And this refers to that, that in Islamic dialogue, a biblical answer available to it. 0.95

00:52:35.540 Islam does not talk about God as loving as we do. 0.96

00:52:40.880 The Quran does mention that God is loving, but his love is conditional. 0.93

00:52:45.420 It is I who take the initiative to love him by obeying him.

00:52:51.900 Then, in turn, perhaps he would love me.

00:52:55.140 Did you hear me?

00:52:55.840 Perhaps he would love me.

00:52:57.240 I will never know.

00:52:58.440 Only on the day of judgment.

00:53:00.680 But this leaflet, in the light of the scripture, clearly says that before we loved him, he has loved us.

00:53:09.460 And that helps our Muslim friend to know.

00:53:12.520 So many Muslims say that, how can God have a son when he has no wife, no consort? 0.99

00:53:20.300 Can you imagine they believe? 0.94

00:53:21.660 So Mary could give birth without a husband intervention. 1.00

00:53:27.200 So Muslims do believe that. 0.98

00:53:28.780 They believe in the supernatural.

00:53:30.480 Yes, they do believe in the supernatural.

00:53:32.640 So this one helps them that we do not say, the Bible no will say that God had a wife and then Jesus was born.

00:53:41.180 No.

00:53:41.360 it's a similar story which is in surah miriam in the quran chapter 19 but also we believe in the

00:53:50.520 bible and the bible does not say that it's a very different thing altogether that since god is

00:53:56.260 eternal his word must be eternal and muslims believe that jesus is the word of god so if he's

00:54:03.700 the word of god then he is more than a prophet right right god's words are eternal they say the

00:54:10.600 quran is the word of god that's eternal so you got now two eternals here one is the living eternal 0.89

00:54:16.960 and who is jesus here is the sometime muslim will say oh the quran has abrogated the bible 0.75

00:54:22.840 abrogated i'm kind of dumb what's that yes it means that superseded it was the canceled all 0.77

00:54:30.160 the revelation before if the quran has canceled earlier revelation why it says there is guidance

00:54:37.680 and light in them so this answers that question then of course one of the thing which my dilemma

00:54:44.740 was that the bible is changed really again same question so when the quran says that

00:54:51.020 there are abrogated verses it's only referring to its own passages because muhammad could not come

00:54:59.900 up with a better idea oh prophet of islam first you said this now this and he said well earlier

00:55:07.260 revelation it is god who have canceled them so it's in that way that's why i had to write this

00:55:14.340 book can god's word change nas or abrogation in the quran and the bible uh you can find it on

00:55:23.000 amazon or go to jesus to muslim.org and you can get it there is it true that we're currently in

00:55:31.600 the middle of a of a great like a vast amount of muslims that are converting to christianity this

00:55:37.260 i'm not familiar with the phenomenon but i hear whispers of it in various you know corners of the

00:55:42.900 internet i came across a video the other day and it was of a man who was looking into the phenomenon

00:55:50.000 of near-death experiences and he wanted to find videos testimony of people meeting muhammad when

00:55:59.160 they had these experiences instead what he came upon was a large body of content various former

00:56:07.420 muslims having a near-death experience and instead meeting jesus christ and thereby converting to

00:56:15.180 christianity and this isn't something that's happening as a one-off or at least that's not

00:56:20.520 been my understanding it seems to be that there is a large amount of muslims that are converting

00:56:26.320 to Christianity. Has this been your experience? Have you seen this? Yes, we have seen this

00:56:30.580 again and again because Muslims do believe that God at times intervenes and sends his angels or

00:56:40.860 people see visions and dreams, especially dreams. And because even we as followers of Christ believe

00:56:49.700 that, like Cornelius, was a God-fearing person, and yet God wanted to tell him what he should

00:56:59.920 be doing.

00:57:00.740 So an angel comes and tells him.

00:57:02.640 So that's just one example.

00:57:04.540 So in the Muslims, among Muslims, there are many Muslims who are totally innocent. 1.00

00:57:09.820 They have no idea what they are doing. 1.00

00:57:11.940 And so they are asking and pleading with God.

00:57:14.540 Of course, the real God will intervene in that, looking at their hearts and their minds, revealing Jesus to them.

00:57:23.320 And so this is what is happening, the phenomena.

00:57:28.400 I mean, I still remember as a child, because my time was that in schools, cleaning was not forbidden.

00:57:38.420 And of course, I was one of those kids who would ask some silly questions.

00:57:44.540 question yeah and because as growing up as muslim you could not question god his existence the prophet

00:57:53.100 of the prophet muhammad and of course the religion of islam but there were times that

00:58:00.220 i will finish up in trouble because asking the wrong question according to them and i said no

00:58:05.180 i'm not criticizing i want to know for myself so of course i will finish up in trouble and then

00:58:12.300 beaten up. And then, of course, to have some money in my pocket, I will do other children's

00:58:20.320 homework, school homework. So they will give me their dinner money. And then I will finish up in

00:58:26.320 trouble because I would tell them to sit on the other side. So the teacher will not recognize 0.80

00:58:31.440 the same writing. But anyway, so one day I was quite upset about certain things.

00:58:39.820 just as a kid. And I still remember that prayer. I mean, that dream, and it's right in the beginning

00:58:49.140 of this book, Into the Light, I mentioned that dream, that I lost my way. I was kind of going

00:58:56.960 home or going towards school, something like that happened. And so there was a fork on the road,

00:59:04.000 And I took, because Muslims believe it is always right path is the right hand. 1.00

00:59:10.480 So it was, so I took that road and finished up at a gate, you know, like in the West, 1.00

00:59:17.280 you have these farms and then they have this long gate.

00:59:20.340 And I saw that on the other side of the gate, there were children of my age and they were

00:59:26.340 so jolly, happy and playing and all this thing.

00:59:30.560 And I opened and they kind of signed me that, come play with us.

00:59:35.180 And I went and started playing with them.

00:59:37.180 And I was so happy about it.

00:59:39.680 And I asked them, which school did they go to and all this.

00:59:43.500 And this much I remember that an elderly person, but in very good health, came with this long beard, you know, like that.

00:59:52.680 Kind of that was my imagination.

00:59:54.900 That he called the children that, okay, now it's time to study.

00:59:59.100 And I said to him, sir, I would like to go to this school.

01:00:04.980 I don't want to go to my school.

01:00:07.200 And he said, no, you have to go to your school.

01:00:10.200 I said, no, but my teachers beat me up there.

01:00:13.860 And he said, you should go, but a time is coming when I would let you enter into my school.

01:00:20.540 Wow.

01:00:22.680 That's interesting. 0.97

01:00:23.640 And I will tell your teacher, Muhammad Ismail, not to beat you again.

01:00:30.180 So can you imagine the next day, there is the time to kind of have a recess.

01:00:38.640 Yeah.

01:00:38.800 And I'm standing there while my teacher, Muhammad Ismail, is working on the table, on his desk to do certain things.

01:00:46.720 And I'm just standing there and he said, you know, in English, what's up, boy?

01:00:51.420 What's the matter?

01:00:52.400 and i said sir uh i saw that dream last night and he turned around and he said you saw a dream too

01:01:00.180 whoa okay okay go go you know from that day onward he never beat me did he ever tell you

01:01:09.840 he never told me but uh wow but that was a that kind of it's calling back to what you were just

01:01:16.300 talking about there right which is uh just the people that are the muslim people that are having

01:01:20.620 in the either near-death experience or dreams? 1.00

01:01:22.980 Because I think that they're just about the same thing.

01:01:25.660 Because God looks at people's heart.

01:01:28.420 God looked at my heart that here I wanted to follow Muhammad to the letter. 0.68

01:01:33.780 And then I was asking, well, what is it?

01:01:37.580 Why the Prophet of Islam would say,

01:01:40.700 Laidri, I don't know.

01:01:43.860 The only thing I know is that only by God's grace and mercy you can enter.

01:01:49.020 So where does one get that grace and mercy?

01:01:51.780 So I kind of calm down.

01:01:53.240 Okay, we have to continue and do those things.

01:01:57.940 But God looks at our hearts and he says, okay.

01:02:02.540 Of course, to you and to me, he has given that great commission to go into all the world.

01:02:08.800 But he has to finish his work too. 0.62

01:02:11.500 You know that such a small percentage of work is directed towards Muslims.

01:02:18.260 When it comes to the missionary work. 0.99

01:02:20.520 Oh, yeah.

01:02:21.100 I mean, but you can imagine why.

01:02:23.420 Yes.

01:02:23.960 And you know and I know.

01:02:25.640 But God is still at work.

01:02:27.420 He wants to bring those people to know so they will have no excuse left on the Day of Judgment.

01:02:34.880 You have an interesting mix.

01:02:37.080 Cornelius is the person that goes and gets Saul, right?

01:02:42.080 I'm sorry.

01:02:42.900 I'll get Paul.

01:02:43.760 I'll get Peter.

01:02:44.840 Yeah.

01:02:45.400 He sends his...

01:02:47.440 Oh, I'm sorry.

01:02:48.260 And who's the name of the guy that, man, God calls him and he says, go get Saul.

01:02:53.120 He's over here.

01:02:54.580 He's blind.

01:02:55.540 Go help him.

01:02:56.280 And he has a very short moment in the Bible, but he's got a big job.

01:03:00.400 Yes, it's another place.

01:03:01.320 Yeah, it's another place.

01:03:02.660 You're a mix of that because he says to God, he's like, are you sure? 0.73

01:03:07.200 Paul is the guy that's killing Christians and you want me to go? 1.00

01:03:09.820 Yes, Hanani was his name. 0.99

01:03:11.240 Yes, yes.

01:03:12.360 Because Saul is now in Damascus sitting and not knowing what to do.

01:03:18.980 He's blind. 0.62

01:03:20.140 And, of course, God tells Hananiya to go and tell him that what I have done for him, that I have appointed him.

01:03:27.920 And Hananiya say, well, are you sure?

01:03:31.740 You're an interesting mix of Hananiya because, well, Saul in a way, because it seems like you're hearing the voice of God, 0.92

01:03:40.620 but you're still in Islam and still doing this thing which you think is right for a long time. 1.00

01:03:46.180 And then also, when you get called out of it, this is clear danger, right? 0.96

01:03:50.120 When you get called out to not do this anymore.

01:03:53.360 Yeah, how did your...

01:03:54.340 You still live there.

01:03:55.400 Well, I was asking a lot of questions.

01:03:59.140 No, I was studying the Bible, so they kicked me out.

01:04:02.140 Oh, okay.

01:04:02.900 So I could never finish that.

01:04:05.180 But of course, two years later, I became a follower of Christ.

01:04:09.260 on 29th April 1973 so I started studying with the eldership and another three years later in 1976

01:04:20.120 April 1976 the elders put their hands on me and said okay we want to announce you that you are now

01:04:30.700 a person you call it a missionary or a mobile to your people and that's what i have been doing

01:04:39.340 this year there were 50 years wow but you're still at the time i mean you're still living among

01:04:46.220 muslims you have relations until the 1980 a lot of things happened in my case so yeah several times 0.63

01:04:54.020 Even my own father wanted to get rid of me, to slaughter me.

01:05:03.500 How do you say the term cut up? 1.00

01:05:05.720 Yeah, katala. 0.88

01:05:06.740 Yeah, there you go. 1.00

01:05:08.320 Katala. 1.00

01:05:09.620 Because you've become the infidel. 0.99

01:05:11.920 Yes, an apostate. 1.00

01:05:12.540 And to becoming an apostate, a Muslim should be then asked to recant.

01:05:19.860 And if that person does not recant, then but that was his loving and kindness, because that's what he knew.

01:05:26.220 That's what he knew. That's what he knew. He did not want me to live on as an apostate.

01:05:31.160 Right. He wanted to be in the grace of God.

01:05:33.820 So that God will so that God will not punish me forever and ever for my apostasy.

01:05:38.980 Yeah, that's what he knew. Although he gave me the opportunity and asked me, why did I become a follower of Christ?

01:05:46.400 and I shared the same thing, that I was looking for God's grace and mercy,

01:05:50.780 and that's available through Christ.

01:05:53.540 And, of course, they did not believe that.

01:05:56.080 They performed my funeral prayer.

01:05:57.800 They put me on a donkey for they thought to parade me in the streets of the village.

01:06:04.220 On a donkey, huh?

01:06:05.580 On a donkey, because that's what they do. 0.83

01:06:07.840 They will blacken a face of a criminal, a murderer or a person, a thief or a robber,

01:06:15.460 And then they will parade them before they give the person to the police or deal with them. 0.92

01:06:21.580 But this was the northern frontier region of Pakistan where people, tribal systems are allowed.

01:06:29.120 Anyway, so while at the end, the donkey thing, the donkey thing is interesting because Jesus comes in on a donkey.

01:06:35.540 Yes. And that's what my father said.

01:06:38.140 You are following that Jesus who never sat on a nor a camel nor a horse. 0.57

01:06:44.480 Your Jesus sat on a donkey.

01:06:46.980 Can you imagine at that time, that Jesus became my Jesus, 0.96

01:06:51.800 which is an Islamic Jesus, became my Jesus who sat on a donkey. 0.92

01:06:56.860 And here I was. 0.97

01:06:58.100 And so he raises his sword because carrying guns in that part of the world is a normal thing.

01:07:04.320 But having a sword means something is happening.

01:07:06.780 And these people are jeering and saying, 1.00

01:07:10.140 In other words, slaughter him, kill him. 1.00

01:07:14.640 And these are people you know as well? 1.00

01:07:16.800 I knew, yes.

01:07:18.000 These were the people with whom I grew up in all this.

01:07:21.480 And it's the whole village.

01:07:22.720 Of course, some of them I did not know

01:07:24.360 because I had left quite long before that.

01:07:26.820 Sure, but many of them.

01:07:27.960 Many of them knew me.

01:07:29.820 And so they are cheering, 0.99

01:07:31.620 My father takes the sword to just chop my head off 0.99

01:07:36.440 that in just split seconds, 0.99

01:07:38.520 This donkey acts like a horse, kicks a few people, and the crowd parts, and it takes off.

01:07:47.240 It doesn't go anywhere straight into the field, and then quickly turns a 90-degree turn to the left into this dry ravine towards the river and runs.

01:08:00.960 You're still on it?

01:08:01.720 And I'm still on the donkey holding on to.

01:08:05.200 And I hear these voices in the back.

01:08:08.280 When is he going to catch him?

01:08:09.700 And all this other things are happening.

01:08:12.040 So I kind of like thinking for my life that I hear now I'm in other trouble.

01:08:17.160 I looked behind and there was a fog rising behind me.

01:08:21.880 And they were on the other side of that fog. 0.95

01:08:24.960 And of course, for about half a mile, this donkey went on running.

01:08:31.320 And then when the rain, when the water was coming from the, from the river into the ravine, it came out and plopped down and God rescued me.

01:08:44.700 So here is a situation unthinkable, yet my time had not yet come.

01:08:52.240 A few years later at the university campus, I was kidnapped by two, by four people.

01:09:00.660 They drugged me and buried me alive. 1.00

01:09:04.840 Muslims have ready-made graves like the Jewish people. 1.00

01:09:08.200 They will bury their dead before that. 1.00

01:09:11.180 Can you imagine that the month of monsoon from the Indian Ocean in the night?

01:09:17.560 I didn't know about it.

01:09:20.060 The rain rises up.

01:09:23.480 And, of course, the whole city is now having the monsoon rain.

01:09:29.900 On the top of the reservoir in this graveyard, on the top of the hill, there was a water reservoir, and it breaks.

01:09:39.480 And that water comes down.

01:09:41.280 That's later on, I learned, and washed me out.

01:09:44.460 And, of course, there it was.

01:09:48.080 I was floating in the water in the middle of the night about 3 o'clock in the morning.

01:09:53.480 And of course, and I said, hmm, how am I swimming or how I'm floating because I don't swim.

01:10:03.960 And as soon as I thought about it, oh, you started sinking.

01:10:07.740 So I started sinking, but I quickly, you know, to rescue myself, there was a branch of a tree.

01:10:16.080 It was a banyan tree and I climbed into it.

01:10:19.020 And of course, later on, so no, just think about the next day, I was back at the university.

01:10:28.880 Near the university, there are several gates, but with this gate, there was a kiosk and there was a newspaper stand.

01:10:36.040 And on the newspaper, the Daily Junk said last night, 232 people were drowned because of the monsoon rain.

01:10:47.220 And here I was.

01:10:48.080 Now think about this thing, going through the corridor and those four people who did this to me, they saw me, two of them ran away.

01:10:56.380 And one plopped down, didn't know what he was doing.

01:10:59.960 And the other one started crying, I didn't do it.

01:11:03.860 And I don't know, people want to know.

01:11:05.860 Yeah.

01:11:07.140 Of course, I shared the gospel through Jonah types of brimstone, but maybe they wanted to hear it or maybe God let me do it to him.

01:11:17.640 So they put you here, they buried you because you went there to share the gospel.

01:11:22.840 Yes, I was. I was a student there.

01:11:24.600 And then you went back.

01:11:25.860 Yes, I went back.

01:11:27.060 No, that's crazy. You know that, right?

01:11:30.040 Well, you know, Paul could do that.

01:11:33.680 Right.

01:11:34.020 Yeah.

01:11:34.760 Yeah.

01:11:34.980 He went back.

01:11:36.420 So there are times that we don't want to do things.

01:11:39.580 But then and that very evening I was crying.

01:11:42.600 I said, Lord, I thought this life will be so much easy.

01:11:45.400 and so you know there are times when you are upset you don't want to switch on even the light

01:11:51.440 if even if it's the evening yeah and there was light from the streets coming through the window

01:11:56.500 my bible was open and like somebody put his hand behind me on my shoulder

01:12:05.140 and in a very simple way I could understand who he was talking to me saying I let this happen to you

01:12:16.680 so that you will say things clearly as it is don't wrap in a cloth and present it say as it is

01:12:30.440 not only say yes that's not the case but say jesus is the only way yeah and i just cried

01:12:39.280 yes i used to say but i would say you know find it for yourself read matthew chapter 5 chapter 6

01:12:47.080 chapter 7 because muslims believe in the five pillars of islam the prayer and the fasting and

01:12:54.340 the giving and all this and what Jesus said about fasting, about prayer, about giving

01:13:00.520 and all that, that they would find out and that how, why Jesus is the only way.

01:13:06.720 So I would talk, but talk very politely, leaving it to them.

01:13:11.560 But there are times that politeness have to be put aside.

01:13:17.280 And that's what the Lord wanted to tell me, that you are doing this.

01:13:22.000 why don't you tell them clearly yeah this is poison for you 1.00

01:13:26.740 how is that how has that been received by uh by like the muslim community in general 0.99

01:13:34.760 because we we deal with a little bit of that as well we're very like direct speakers and a lot of

01:13:41.520 people don't like yes the the way i put things or the way i say things also that comes with

01:13:47.380 sometimes crude sometimes like laced with comedy but it needs to be said but it still has to be

01:13:52.820 said clearly yeah that okay at the end of the day yes all these so uh levy-dovey type of things but

01:14:00.840 there were times and moments not just once but always that jesus was totally yeah because of

01:14:10.400 division among the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and even other people. Oh, why he's talking

01:14:18.160 like this? Well, he said he came, he's going to divide you from your family even.

01:14:23.160 So that we have to share. Yes, because the message is about eternal life, not here,

01:14:32.420 but there. But that eternity starts from here. We all have to go one day. Yes, this life is

01:14:40.240 given once and we should use it to the full for his glory don't just walk into a trap but

01:14:47.440 at the same time say it and say it clearly that at the end of the whole thing this is the way

01:14:56.520 Jesus is the only savior there are Christians nowadays they will say oh you know even Jesus

01:15:04.100 said that those who are not against us, they are with us. Of course, but you are taking that out

01:15:10.980 of context. He also says that those who are not with me, they are against me. So you got a big

01:15:18.540 problem here. So the problem we solved is clearly that in these last days, God has spoken to us

01:15:26.640 through his son period and that's what yes we believe in the law but at the same time we believe

01:15:35.980 in his grace and mercy we also as followers of christ now do a lot of good things but we don't

01:15:43.720 do that to get some brownie points we do that in thankfulness that god has already done that

01:15:52.440 That's what I share that with my Muslim friends, that friends, we are also doing a lot of good things while you do it in the hope that these brawny points will perhaps get you there.

01:16:05.600 But still, you do not know. 1.00

01:16:07.580 We do those things in thankfulness that God has already done those things for us.

01:16:13.320 And because he said, if you love me, you will keep my commandment.

01:16:17.320 And that's why we do all these good things, as you see.

01:16:22.440 but otherwise we are all fallen people.

01:16:26.080 Yeah, that's it, right?

01:16:27.340 It's this idea that we're not going to get in by works,

01:16:30.820 but that we have salvation through grace

01:16:34.500 and that that's been given to us

01:16:36.920 and we're sinners and we're fallen.

01:16:39.740 So who are we to not give it to someone else?

01:16:43.340 And it's not because we're giving it to you

01:16:45.020 so that we might be saved or that we won't perish,

01:16:49.500 but it's because, wow, look at this thing

01:16:51.340 that's been given to me who you know you're talking about pastor um pastor rick and this

01:16:57.060 whole thing about being a worm you know that that you know we're not a man i saw somebody post

01:17:03.040 something recently they were asked if they were a good person and they quoted scripture and the

01:17:08.920 scripture very clearly says that none of us are righteous none of us are righteous so the answer

01:17:13.400 is no actually so you're not a good person you are fallen you're not righteous you are a sinner

01:17:18.360 and still you have been given salvation and so the reason that you turn around and give it to

01:17:25.980 somebody else you give grace and you give kindness and things like that to other people is because

01:17:29.780 it's unbelievable that you've been a recipient of it not because it's going to get you into heaven 0.99

01:17:34.340 weren't the jews supposed to take this like this is old testament stuff weren't they supposed to 0.98

01:17:39.940 take this and actually spread it around rather than hoard it to themselves yes they should have 0.91

01:17:44.880 them and they made that that's a huge mistake that they made and now we end up here with this 0.64

01:17:51.100 like odd fractured uh it's such a strange thing when you have islam judaism christianity and even

01:17:58.840 like i don't know mormonism they all kind of like split off from this very thing this one thing that 0.96

01:18:04.920 is very true and they're also like it's remarkable to me how close islam is you're you're looking for

01:18:11.140 mercy and grace you're looking for the way and and and you believe in all these you know old 0.77

01:18:18.120 testament prophets and and moses and all these different things but all of them are pointing

01:18:22.940 towards jesus is saying i am the way the truth and the life yeah uh you know jesus is uh you

01:18:29.400 know mercy and like all of these things are right there and islam is is so close what in your

01:18:36.000 opinion what do you think too far away in the most important aspect of everything the most 0.68

01:18:42.040 important detail it just one step off the line and it goes to show you you know uh top will often

01:18:47.700 talk about sin in the in the way of a of a marksmanship terminology and so to sin is to

01:18:53.780 miss the target and if you deviate just a little bit that you know now eventually it gets somewhere

01:18:59.800 else so so far down the line it's deviated incredibly far that's exactly what we're looking 1.00

01:19:05.320 at here with islam is very close well not just is the path is narrow that's the thing it always

01:19:11.040 bothers me when people like uh they pick on islam and they beat it up and i'm like yeah i get it but

01:19:15.940 that's me too right like this is it's just a miss is a miss that's it and it starts from back like

01:19:21.740 the archery term it's going to start from back here but if i'm off by a centimeter here it's

01:19:25.580 off by a foot over there so yeah i can look at islam and be like yeah them i can look at the

01:19:30.380 jews i can be like yeah them i can look at even christians in the church and i go yeah them and

01:19:34.560 And I go, well, me too, right?

01:19:36.140 Yeah.

01:19:36.580 And it's just, I don't know.

01:19:37.860 I hate, like, pointing.

01:19:41.000 We did a lot of pointing.

01:19:42.740 We've done a lot of pointing at, like, things.

01:19:45.360 And it's just like, I don't know. 1.00

01:19:46.140 Again, you know, I have to say, when we talk about Muslims, it's not the Muslims which are the problem. 1.00

01:19:57.040 It's the ideology behind them which is a problem. 1.00

01:20:00.820 once you respond to that ideology then it's the ball is in their code

01:20:10.300 to that jesus because your ideology teaches you about god's grace and mercy too

01:20:18.820 you don't have to go and kill other people for god to get into the paradise of god first of all

01:20:29.300 how do you know yes the quran does say that those who are killed for god

01:20:33.740 they will enter and those who kill for god as well will enter into the paradise of god

01:20:41.140 that's one assurance but here is the question how do you decide that a particular war in which you

01:20:49.220 are part of or taking place that that war is for god it could be a geopolitical war

01:20:58.300 It could be some other trick.

01:21:01.720 So how do you decide?

01:21:03.700 Well, we cannot go on and on like that.

01:21:07.980 God already took the initiative.

01:21:11.700 He sent his own to die for you, my Muslim friend, and for me,

01:21:17.160 so that by believing in him, we will have the eternal life,

01:21:22.880 so that your life will be saved here and there as well.

01:21:28.300 Yes, this life is today, here, and tomorrow it's gone.

01:21:32.980 But there is eternity awaits.

01:21:36.520 How is it that God would say this through Jesus, that I have come to give life?

01:21:44.720 On the one side, he says, there is no one, everyone is condemned.

01:21:50.960 No one is righteous.

01:21:52.580 Even the Quran says that if God wants to punish everyone,

01:21:57.360 he would not leave even one soul on this earth.

01:22:02.200 But then again, it does not give hope.

01:22:06.500 How does one get that hope?

01:22:07.860 Well, that hope is available to them, to you, to me,

01:22:13.000 and all these 2 billion Muslims through Jesus.

01:22:16.580 So the Quran doesn't do anything about repentance and salvation?

01:22:21.680 The Quran does talk, the word, the terms are there, 0.75

01:22:25.060 but Islam has borrowed biblical vocabulary,

01:22:31.100 but it has its own exposition of it, its own dictionary.

01:22:36.900 So yes, it talks about repentance and toba,

01:22:39.580 and then it says, and those who do the righteous work,

01:22:43.500 God will not destroy their righteous work.

01:22:47.000 They will still be given a reward for it.

01:22:50.880 But then God turns around and He says, He has already created some for hell and some for paradise.

01:22:58.300 Oh, so this is almost like a Calvinistic approach.

01:23:00.320 Yes, a Calvinistic, but it's more dangerous than that.

01:23:04.460 So that God right in the beginning decided who are His and who are not,

01:23:09.700 that these people who will do the wrong things, because God has desired them to do all the wrong things,

01:23:15.540 He will still send them to hell.

01:23:17.980 and these are people who are doing all the good things uh they will be sent to the paradise but

01:23:26.920 then again it says that it's in his hand that on that day if he decides he would let them get him

01:23:35.300 so some places there is always a contradictory uh situation so most of the passages will say

01:23:43.580 muhammad will not intercede he cannot uh because only uh a person who has never sinned can intercede

01:23:52.860 well in the case of muhammad he was told ask for forgiveness for your sin and for the sin of your

01:23:59.980 people in the same way uh we see that in the bible but jesus was the only one who said who

01:24:07.900 among you can make me guilty of any sin i may have committed so even a person like peter i mean a

01:24:17.260 pilot could stand up and say i don't see any problem with him why are you saying all these

01:24:22.860 things peter himself said that although he was tried and everything there was nothing found even

01:24:29.500 in his mouth to say so these are some of the things which we can clarify with with Muslims 0.92

01:24:39.880 that there is a path available but at the end of the day you do not want to believe that's up to 0.86

01:24:45.920 you again we are the one who will say for you is then your faith and for me is my faith yes

01:24:53.840 so god has blessed you and you are living such in a free country and all this but do realize that

01:25:02.400 the moment uh your faith uses a certain rules and regulation which are against the constitution of

01:25:12.000 this country then you are in trouble and i wish that your politicians in this country will

01:25:21.120 be quite clear about that yes you can practice your faith but at the moment you realize you 0.66

01:25:26.560 just think about it that here is a person who has become an apostate now they want to kill him even

01:25:31.600 in this country or a girl decided that she would not marry the person her parents but to marry 0.92

01:25:43.040 another person whom she thinks is a best match, and then you go and want to kill her, do the 0.99

01:25:51.200 owner killing. That type of thing then is a problem. And then also Islam itself says clearly 0.98

01:25:58.400 that they have to establish whether we like it or not. So like we have wishy-washy Christians, 1.00

01:26:04.740 they have wishy-washy Muslims. The only thing is that when a Christian becomes, 1.00

01:26:08.760 When a wishy-washy Christian becomes a follower of Christ, he becomes more loving and kind, not only to himself, but also to his family and to other families, people as well, and to the community.

01:26:21.620 when a muslim become really a practicing muslim and he goes into it he becomes more what we call 0.80

01:26:30.060 radical and that because there is only one islam and there is only one christianity uh one biblical 0.96

01:26:37.860 way of reaching yes so they just go on that way and they want to because they don't have an 0.72

01:26:44.640 assurance of eternal life so to make it much easier for them they say okay i will go and do

01:26:50.760 in the name of God a few atrocities we call it atrocities they will call it that work for God 0.99

01:26:59.840 right right to kill the infidels or to do something and then be killed and will go that's 0.99

01:27:06.360 what happened to 9-11 and a lot of other places these things are happening that other people are 1.00

01:27:13.760 slaughtered and they themselves slaughtered them as well so that's the world we are living in

01:27:22.160 i'm so surprised that people ask me this question that how people can change just to give you my

01:27:30.720 example two of my brothers were killed in afghanistan in 2003 when the american forces

01:27:38.480 were in Afghanistan. Now, I could have been there going against your brothers and sisters there

01:27:46.960 who were fighting a cause. Whatever that cause was, we would leave that, otherwise we would be

01:27:51.740 here for all day. Yeah, we know what the cause was. But here is something. While these brothers

01:27:58.660 were thinking that that was God's calling for them to do the jihad, first against the Russians 0.99

01:28:07.280 and now against the infidels of America. 1.00

01:28:11.420 But why was I not there? 1.00

01:28:13.960 Because I had been already reached with the gospel.

01:28:18.480 I understood.

01:28:20.520 So you and I, as followers of Christ,

01:28:24.060 are also involved in against the terrorism.

01:28:29.880 And that is to help these Muslims,

01:28:33.640 to re-educate them, to help them,

01:28:35.580 that you know what cause you're fighting god already caused that and himself completed it

01:28:44.420 for you so that you will have life and that's what we have to share this is what i do through

01:28:51.380 jesus to muslim ministry to into the light and several other we have common things we talk about

01:29:00.920 And that's what it's all about at the end of the day.

01:29:05.280 But the end of whole thing, the message is that salvation is available to us through Christ.

01:29:14.580 My Muslim friend, you are looking for grace and mercy.

01:29:18.020 That grace and mercy has already been given through Christ.

01:29:23.700 I guess I have like two final questions as we wrap it up.

01:29:26.980 Tremendous. Thanks for your time.

01:29:28.980 Yeah, this is a fascinating conversation.

01:29:31.880 They can read this book.

01:29:34.300 And of course, there are a lot of other things.

01:29:38.040 Here is another book which I have written,

01:29:41.220 Jesus, the Bible, and Islam, Abiding in Truth.

01:29:44.920 It's available on Amazon and also available on our website.

01:29:49.720 There are other books as well, More Than Conquers,

01:29:52.980 and One God, One Mediator, and One People.

01:29:58.500 these are all available on the website you said the links will be in the description when this

01:30:02.120 goes live that's jesus to muslims.org you can go through there it's like the second link right

01:30:07.260 below i i wanted to ask uh two so two questions final questions as we go with this ministry you've

01:30:13.760 been doing for 50 years you said um yeah in different format yes sure in different format

01:30:19.600 yeah here and there and now it's kind of it's it's it's really cool to to see it happening in

01:30:24.640 this library because there's always like any manner of things going on in this place. It's

01:30:28.520 kind of insanity. There's a dead bear right outside. Do you think that you're making progress

01:30:37.440 with your ministry? How have things been going? Do you think our efforts snowballing? Are they

01:30:42.320 slowing down for you? What have you been seeing? We want to hear about the wins or the losses.

01:30:46.940 What have you been seeing as you've been doing this? 0.88

01:30:49.180 Well, I see that on one hand, while the Middle East and the Muslim world, the actual Muslim world, is leaving Islam, something very strange is happening that in the West, Muslims are finding more sympathizers on this side. 0.87

01:31:15.360 Well, I can tell you why. What is your theory on why first? And then I'll explain what I think, because I've been seeing the same thing. 0.58

01:31:22.540 Please go ahead.

01:31:23.560 Okay. Within the Christian community and America in general, when we're talking like a broad, not just the political spectrum, but culturally, there has been a feminization, like we talk about this often, a feminization of men.

01:31:37.200 Yeah. And especially in Christianity, there has been a softening. There's been a feminization of Christianity. When you look at some of the maybe the new new apostolic, what do they call it? Reformation churches and nothing against them. It's just there is this like wispy, soft Jesus that's presented to people.

01:31:56.600 In fact, Dr. Masood touched on that earlier in the episode, this idea that Jesus was actually very pointed and very direct and very stern with his words. That's not the Jesus that Western culture has presented.

01:32:09.420 he's the guy that got killed for what he said because he said it and he pushed their face in

01:32:14.360 when he said it and he insulted these people yeah the highest rank of you know the political class

01:32:19.120 at the time and i think america has seen that and america is also coming out of this uh this time of

01:32:25.860 you see what's going on socially where it's like a man could be a woman all this nonsense america's

01:32:31.060 seeing that and turning away from that and they're embracing masculinity so masculinity now is coming

01:32:36.880 in a bunch of different forms one uh the manosphere is something online where young men are now

01:32:43.040 embracing people like uh i don't know influencers celebrity influencers and these guys are in my

01:32:50.840 opinion most of them are poison they're unmarried people no children and they're going to tell young

01:32:55.560 men how to be men and they're but young men are going to follow it because there is an absence 0.95

01:33:00.120 there's been a what there's a power vacuum it's a power vacuum so they're being sucked in and 1.00

01:33:05.780 Islam, it's one of the things that like from the outside perspective that I do appreciate where 1.00

01:33:10.660 they go, you know, they might lie to you a little bit on the edges here. But when it comes to the 1.00

01:33:15.120 like, when it comes to the nitty gritty, they're gonna be like, well, just cut your head off, 0.92

01:33:18.140 you know, and there's something about that. There's some like definitive nature of saying, 0.79

01:33:22.000 well, no, this is actually what I believe. And I don't care what you think. As a matter of fact,

01:33:27.480 screw you. This is what's happening. Should that I don't know Christianity's place in that I don't 0.99

01:33:33.420 Christianity is a is going to shove it shouldn't shove itself down your throat but there needs to

01:33:38.440 be a masculine aspect of say saying you know okay yeah I hear you you're wrong so what what are you 0.88

01:33:45.360 going to do about it you know I'm not going to kill you but whatever you're wrong and that's

01:33:50.600 lacking although I think it's there's a little bit of a resurgence in that there's there are

01:33:54.280 people out there that are embodying that and hopefully they take it the right way because

01:33:58.240 that can go into if you get into christian nationalism now we're just talking about 0.96

01:34:02.400 that's what that's what islam has done when they like the taliban has taken over and they've 0.98

01:34:06.800 created their own governmental system that's also a trap you can't go too far in that direction 0.99

01:34:11.500 this is something that we talk about on the show a lot where the christian nationalism thing is

01:34:15.980 coming uh to the forefront of popular culture and i think there is a fundamental flaw in becoming

01:34:24.260 a christian because you do not like power yeah you don't like the previous status quo you don't

01:34:30.140 like the left you don't like the lgbtq yes you don't like the ideology instead it should be about

01:34:37.000 trying to understand god pursuing the truth and developing a relationship with god but that's

01:34:43.560 that should be the guiding that is slow that's slow and these people have taken uh like there's

01:34:48.740 been the idea of jesus's king used as a hammer to hit someone over the head with and it's like

01:34:52.880 cool but that's it's not a weapon it's a proclamation and instead they use it to attack so

01:34:59.420 this is we're seeing that as a response but i think that's why you see in the west this uptick

01:35:05.580 of them looking at islamism as this like there's a mat there is a certain masculinity to it and

01:35:10.600 there is a certain foundation to it and it it embodies and resembles strength so people who

01:35:15.620 don't understand real strength are going to go to that you know and that that's sort of what's

01:35:19.780 happening. And we'll see how that plays out. My approach and understanding is a little bit

01:35:25.260 different in that way, because I see when I look at America, I also look at the situation of Israel

01:35:35.340 because there is a kind of like comparison there that here was America that at one time,

01:35:47.520 even the Congress give permission, the Bible should be printed and all these other things.

01:35:53.140 And of course, things have changed and all this has happened. But the things which happen in

01:35:59.280 Israel and are happening, see similar situations here. Now, don't get me wrong. One thing I know

01:36:07.840 is that to whom much is given, much will be required. America has done a lot when it came

01:36:16.700 to christian outreach uh maybe not on the governmental basis but there has been places

01:36:24.700 that people have reached uh very much to take the gospel very much but while doing that the

01:36:35.180 The people forgot to build up the next generations, and that's what happened.

01:36:44.640 They went so far to help other people so much that they didn't care for their own household. 0.97

01:36:55.000 Well, the scripture clearly says that a person who does not take care of his own family is worse than unbeliever. 0.95

01:37:03.320 unbeliever. So here is America. You want to go and help wide and... 0.97

01:37:12.720 We're going to give democracy to Afghanistan.

01:37:14.260 Democracy to every country you want to teach and all this, and then give, of course, 0.56

01:37:22.980 showing your own type of Christianity, giving them the shirt on your back to them. But 0.91

01:37:31.420 And there is more to it. And there is more to it is like this. You know, when we travel by air

01:37:40.440 in the time of emergency, we are advised to first put the mask on our face. And then we'll be able

01:37:50.000 because of the availability of the oxygen to help other people. If we don't do that,

01:37:56.700 because of a lack of oxygen, we may do things which could be totally wrong.

01:38:02.820 Well, we didn't care very much about that here in America.

01:38:07.480 And so America is living on a very low oxygen rate

01:38:13.780 and is still trying to help other people and embracing and taking everything.

01:38:20.960 but it had forgotten what the scripture clearly says like when Peter John and James were kind of

01:38:33.240 asked why do you take this name just shut up and don't take this name and they said clearly

01:38:41.780 judge for yourself should we listen to you or should we listen to God because we cannot stop

01:38:50.580 ourselves. So instead of making kind of compromises in a way to be all-embracing,

01:38:59.180 it's a good thing for us and for other people to tell them beforehand what is our criterion.

01:39:10.880 Like in my case, I say, pin it on the scripture. Here, this is what the scripture says. If you

01:39:18.620 are attacking the scriptures let's talk about that the integrity of it the same is in this country

01:39:25.180 that unless people return to what they are and that is what god has done these things 0.81

01:39:35.180 may work or may not work because it's the same story like israel there were good people

01:39:42.620 and then there were bad people and it came from the hierarchy all the way down and i see that

01:39:48.700 an example i'm not comparing in a way in a kind of democratical way and all this thing

01:39:54.620 but or a republican way but i'm saying that when people kind of push everything away and god is not

01:40:04.140 in that because as an outsider when i look at america you know even your dollar note says

01:40:13.420 in god we trust in god we trust but do we but do you

01:40:19.800 and you want to be me me the myology comes so not anymore god but me and god says okay

01:40:32.100 you want it your way then there it is yeah but because there are other people

01:40:39.040 that who want to follow christ and they keep pleading so the abrahamic story comes along

01:40:48.080 when abraham saw the situation of sedom and gomorrah and abraham said what if there are 50 people

01:40:55.240 what if there are 10 people

01:40:57.240 but God couldn't find

01:41:02.020 we are so

01:41:03.780 thankful to God that there are still people

01:41:05.780 in this country

01:41:06.640 who stand

01:41:09.740 for the truth

01:41:10.560 and they show from their lives

01:41:13.300 and I believe

01:41:14.520 I have been traveling all over the world

01:41:17.800 in 18 countries I'm not wanted anymore

01:41:20.100 so 0.98

01:41:21.100 they want to kill me 1.00

01:41:23.460 my own country and Saudi Arabia. 0.99

01:41:26.100 So, but here it is.

01:41:28.680 When you travel around the world

01:41:31.060 and you come back to this country,

01:41:35.440 forget about, you know,

01:41:37.180 people who in fast lane, fast food

01:41:39.540 and get, annoy you.

01:41:41.460 But you compare that freedom

01:41:43.540 you have in this country

01:41:44.920 with the freedom,

01:41:46.320 the way you travel

01:41:47.320 and the way you do that.

01:41:48.660 Yeah.

01:41:49.500 And you are thankful

01:41:50.500 when you come back here.

01:41:54.420 At least I do that as well.

01:41:56.620 And I've seen others doing that.

01:41:58.580 And then it dawns on you.

01:42:01.880 Oh, no, we are still, this is a country where God still rules.

01:42:09.200 Yes, on every corner, there are churches and other things.

01:42:12.280 And God will ask us on the day of judgment, I don't know you.

01:42:18.240 Why?

01:42:19.020 Why, God?

01:42:19.920 Well, you have a church, you have that.

01:42:21.720 But what about those other people? You did not even invite them or ask them or share with them the gospel or do all these things.

01:42:31.680 To whom much is given, much will be required.

01:42:34.540 Yes, there are a lot of churches and a lot of other, they are doing a lot of things, but there should be a balance because it goes from one extreme to the other.

01:42:44.360 Some are establishing hospitals and all these other things around the world, but then they are not doing anything in their own community.

01:42:55.160 First, your own Jerusalem, your own Judea, your own Samaria, and then the world.

01:43:03.260 That's the way Jesus did. 0.88

01:43:04.360 That's what Jesus did, came for the Jews. 0.75

01:43:05.980 I'm not saying that forget about the world.

01:43:08.500 No, but take action into it.

01:43:13.040 So these are some of the things that they have to,

01:43:16.120 please forgive me, I kind of go on the rabbit chase there.

01:43:20.180 But these are some of the things which had to be.

01:43:23.040 But still to be thankful that how much freedom

01:43:26.500 we have in this country.

01:43:28.680 I'm not sure, but you may have seen

01:43:31.000 some of the interviews with these people

01:43:35.800 who have come to play games in this country.

01:43:38.840 and they were asked and they look at america and the way life is here they love it yeah you're

01:43:48.560 talking about the world cup yes the world cup and several other of course there there are a lot of

01:43:53.620 other problems with it but deep down in their heart there are people that are saying how are

01:44:00.480 they managing if they can have it why can't we have it right because the the seed which was

01:44:08.340 sown 250 years ago, that is still blooming and still the tree is really. But again, the question

01:44:19.500 is, would this tree still stand as it continues? Would our children and their children will still

01:44:29.340 stand with the purpose with which this country stands? The answer is no, if it's not. I know

01:44:37.560 you might have seen this thing it's a joke we call our listeners uh dangerous retards because 1.00

01:44:42.380 we call them retarded which is not nice but this is the word retard dio which is latin it's latin 0.99

01:44:48.340 for uh retard means return and dio means god so we put them together and it just means return to 0.97

01:44:53.360 god and it's a fun way like we like to joke at our listeners at this they get it they better get it 0.78

01:44:58.920 yeah no as you have mentioned i realize what you mean yeah but like it's a it's a like i said we're

01:45:05.840 direct opens a question and opens opens a dialogue yeah exactly it might offend you at first but

01:45:11.920 that's so i don't care then it's not for you but it's for the person that that will laugh at it

01:45:15.840 and go what do you mean and we go well this is what we mean actually and this is why because

01:45:19.900 what you just said is 100 true and and yeah well it's a question that i ask all the time you guys

01:45:25.980 have seen my kids running around here and i look at them and i'm like what's going to be left for

01:45:29.680 them here. I don't know. But it really depends on which way this country goes. I'm thankful that

01:45:36.500 people like you are doing the heavy lifting. Well, you see your forefathers and others. Yes,

01:45:42.980 they were also fallen people. But still, there were etiquettes. I mean, yesterday,

01:45:50.120 we were celebrating Father's Day and we were shocked to find out that 45% of the country of

01:46:01.960 America is fatherless. It's rough. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how the pastor got that information,

01:46:13.200 But here is, I believe that even if it was 20 percent, it's too much.

01:46:20.100 It's too much.

01:46:21.120 Yeah.

01:46:22.000 And there is a big responsibility for the menfolk to, especially for the fathers, to return and say, okay, this much, but stop.

01:46:39.500 from now on i will take the responsibility yeah and that's what but not the responsibility just

01:46:47.540 doing it yourself take god in that whole circle that says with his help i will do and that's a

01:46:57.020 heavy responsibility you know we need the return of the fathers and the father right i mean that's

01:47:01.740 that's that before when top was describing that cultural yearning for you know a strong man or

01:47:07.180 it's for fathers it's for fathers yeah and uh um both spiritual and uh physical fathers actual

01:47:15.020 fathers so yeah it's uh the cool thing is you can find a lot of those like different in different

01:47:19.420 ways i mean in a sense matt is like our our our father like when we call him daddy no i don't

01:47:26.880 when we need help with scripture and stuff like that he's there to guide and point in a direction

01:47:30.240 i have a father as well i mean yeah so it comes in many uh different formats but you just need

01:47:35.240 more people like that um last question you want to ask yeah so favorite question you um you know

01:47:41.540 you've laid out this story 50 years of of a ministry trying to get killed 50 years 50 years

01:47:47.600 of not getting killed yeah yeah yeah several of my friends have been killed several others have gone

01:47:55.420 just to give you one incident when uh the nizami mustafa in pakistan gave me uh a kind of uh

01:48:05.220 decision which I could appeal against that yes capital punishment granted not only to me but

01:48:12.840 there were two others as well and one of my friend who was also in England at that time

01:48:17.900 he wanted to go back and appeal it and we prayed about it and the the council of the eldership said

01:48:27.200 Abid, you should not do that. Abid did not listen, said, no, I love that country so much. I said,

01:48:36.400 we love the country so much, but we should use this life to the full for his glory. He left,

01:48:44.160 he arrived at the airport. From the airport, there were about 15 miles. He had to travel by taxi.

01:48:51.020 he traveled. He was only one block away from the Supreme Court. Two motorcyclists came,

01:49:00.720 sprayed bullets on the taxi. The poor taxi driver died, passerby died, and he died too.

01:49:10.300 That's the world we are living in. I do not understand. Sometimes even I wrestle

01:49:16.960 with this thing, with God.

01:49:20.540 How is it, Lord, in the book of Acts says

01:49:22.880 that when James was nabbed by Agrippa,

01:49:29.160 he killed him right away.

01:49:31.680 When Agrippa said that the Jewish people 0.82

01:49:34.300 were so happy about it, 0.95

01:49:36.100 what he did was he nabbed Peter as well.

01:49:39.800 But in the case of Peter,

01:49:42.040 God sent an angel to rescue that.

01:49:45.640 Why him and not?

01:49:46.400 why him and why not why me still living and other a lot of things happened in my life

01:49:54.600 acid had been thrown and all that and just in the right moment i turn around and the whole

01:50:00.980 acid bottle was on my leather jacket think about it it could have been me yeah because i talk too

01:50:10.740 much when I'm walking around and I'll think and here was at the student hall at the university

01:50:19.120 and other places at one time somebody put a it's a type of bomb that which heats up and then

01:50:28.520 explodes and I was in the evening speaking it was very cold weather speaking at a church

01:50:39.620 my car was outside and you know people start talking and all this and they left and i put

01:50:46.160 i started the car and left it running so it will be warm enough when i go and so i come back

01:50:54.040 everybody is gone and the the cleaner person started talking to me in the church and we hear

01:51:03.380 this big blast and we thought because there is a motorway nearby that perhaps a truck was passing

01:51:10.780 by and puncture happened but then in few minutes there were fire brigade coming so we opened the

01:51:18.280 door the front of my car was on fire the engine was on fire and all this later on they found you

01:51:26.400 they investigated that it was a type of device that when it warms up can you imagine if i had

01:51:34.640 driven off yeah and it had blown not only i would have killed myself but a few other people on the

01:51:41.600 road that's the world we are living in right in england this happened this is the same england on

01:51:47.600 which from 1980-81 i've been writing articles the bloodless jihad and all these other things 0.99

01:51:55.360 mentioning yes i love muslims i was one but there is the islamic ideology which is a problem

01:52:04.000 and we should be aware of it but no i was always told tolerance tolerance yes but tolerance for what 1.00

01:52:15.040 so there is an end to a tolerance yeah it's like you know you spoil a baby

01:52:20.720 and that boy baby grows up he's going to damage a lot of other things as well yeah not only his

01:52:28.740 life but the life of other people as well and the life of the people uh who loved him so much

01:52:35.280 and that's what has happened uh my own christian friends were not listening whether it was the

01:52:46.400 bishop of durham or the bishop of manchester and all these other things you know church of england

01:52:51.300 and they were upset but those other people who were on my side they couldn't do was you know

01:52:59.100 how much you can do anything here if you have a hierarchy which will not listen to you yeah

01:53:07.960 so it's the same and now that tolerance have backfired on them as well yeah and

01:53:16.020 And this is now here.

01:53:19.200 Of course, a lot of friends tell me, no, it will not happen, this.

01:53:26.940 I desire that it will not happen, that there will be something more to it.

01:53:34.080 But the signs are there.

01:53:36.080 Signs are there.

01:53:37.460 And we should learn from our history.

01:53:39.800 We should learn from other people's history and from other countries as well.

01:53:44.480 I mean, think about the British Empire, what it was and what it became and what happened

01:53:51.720 to it.

01:53:52.880 Had it not been America stepping into World War II, things would have been totally different. 0.61

01:53:59.000 The whole Europe would have been taken. 0.73

01:54:01.420 But here is America which helped to help Germany, to help even the Muslim world, and to help

01:54:08.720 japan and philippines and other as now is breathing uh situations is really hard for it and that's 0.54

01:54:18.320 why this country uh needs to first it should help its own people so that those people will then be

01:54:26.800 able to help the world and that's the way we have to do it otherwise if we are not doing that

01:54:32.800 uh this is why some people i i'm not interested in the politics of this country but this politics

01:54:41.000 of this country gave me freedom as well and because i'm interested in that freedom there

01:54:47.180 is this thing which i would say and this is why one thing i like uh for the governmental system

01:54:54.560 here that they are asking that these european countries that for such a long time we have been

01:55:01.240 helping you, when are you going to stand on your feet? I mean, it's like people living in the

01:55:09.140 villages still paying the mortgage of their children and their children. It's a welfare

01:55:15.860 state situation. That's very strange. So I don't know if I can explain it more clearly, but that's

01:55:23.400 the way I'm thinking that yes we have to help yes we have to do things but then again decide

01:55:33.260 where is this happening where is it going the same is with churches when they want to help

01:55:39.200 there are people coming in and they are providing help where is that help going how is this done

01:55:46.680 there should be accountability and that accountability is a big problem in this country

01:55:53.820 we'll see if it comes but i guess it's kind of hard to ask that last question i was i was he

01:55:58.800 said he's like a bunch of his friends got killed you're like we're gonna ask you i know if you're

01:56:01.980 having fun well i mean i think it still is an important question you know given what you're

01:56:07.940 doing um and how much it's changed and all the forms that it's taken throughout the last 50

01:56:12.060 years would you say that the current rendition is one that you're you're having fun in

01:56:19.100 the current tradition wow would you explain that to me so your books your ministry what

01:56:24.380 and what people that you're yeah i mean everything that you're doing is this something that you would

01:56:28.700 call fun uh it's not just fun but it's a responsibility as well and i i like it to

01:56:37.340 to do this because uh life could be here today and gone tomorrow yeah so whatever i know what

01:56:45.980 i'm doing is i'm putting it together uh as much as i can so that when i'm gone everything will be

01:56:55.340 the boards know about it our board know about it that everything will be in public domain

01:57:01.860 Still, it's in public domain, actually.

01:57:03.900 We don't talk about it, but it's all there

01:57:07.160 because the ministry has to be run as well.

01:57:10.160 God is the provider, but he makes other people

01:57:13.260 who are dedicated into this cause also.

01:57:16.440 They support the ministry.

01:57:18.520 But all this information which we have,

01:57:21.180 because when I became a follower of Christ, 0.99

01:57:25.200 there was nothing that how to reach a Muslim.

01:57:28.580 It was I who was taking the initiative or a few other disciples who had known these things, how to talk about it.

01:57:36.760 But they were mostly missionaries, but not kind of like it was open like as today.

01:57:45.020 So that's why I'm doing all these things together.

01:57:48.620 So when I'm gone, it could be today, it could be tomorrow, it could be another 20, 30 years.

01:57:54.680 I'm 74, 75 years old here.

01:57:57.200 I could be older because the country I come from, especially from the northern region of Pakistan, people don't remember very much.

01:58:05.040 They will say, oh, so-and-so was ruling and this happened and there was a big flood.

01:58:11.660 Big flood? How old are they?

01:58:14.500 4,000 years old.

01:58:16.480 Yeah, Pakistan is also, you know, a country which from the north, when the ice melts away, a lot of flood comes as well.

01:58:25.880 Yeah. And the monsoon rain, because the Indian Ocean takes all the cloud towards the Himalayan

01:58:34.820 mountain and then it starts raining.

01:58:36.560 Oh, that's crazy.

01:58:37.560 So it becomes crazy.

01:58:39.120 Yeah.

01:58:40.120 And when it arrives in the river, I've seen videos, it's just insane.

01:58:46.100 And because it's, I mean, on the mountain side, it's okay.

01:58:51.300 But when it comes down into the plains, water is everywhere once it comes out.

01:58:57.340 Yeah, and it's usually dry over there, right?

01:58:59.040 So when the water comes, it doesn't absorb.

01:59:00.640 It doesn't go into the ground, so flash floods.

01:59:03.060 And Pakistan still has a problem. 1.00

01:59:06.460 It doesn't very much work.

01:59:08.400 It has two, three dams, but if you don't clean it and you don't do things to it, it'll be destroyed.

01:59:16.180 And so they had never learned a lesson in the past. 0.98

01:59:20.620 Since 1947, Pakistan became, in the name of Islam, a country. 0.95

01:59:26.660 In 1947? 0.99

01:59:27.620 Interesting. 0.68

01:59:28.320 It's an interesting time.

01:59:29.780 It was the subcontinent India. 0.84

01:59:32.260 British were ruling.

01:59:33.820 So Britain wanted to leave after World War. 0.86

01:59:37.480 So the Muslims in India thought it would be much better that the country is divided 0.98

01:59:43.980 according to the religion. 1.00

01:59:46.180 They did accept, but they put that they will divide the whole continent on the question 0.99

01:59:53.300 where Muslims are in majority, that will become Pakistan. 0.99

01:59:59.360 So you can imagine two Pakistan's were established.

02:00:03.520 One was West Pakistan, the other one was East Pakistan, which is nowadays Bangladesh, a

02:00:08.780 thousand mile in between the two countries. 0.94

02:00:14.820 Of course, always West Pakistan has been ruling the whole of Pakistan.

02:00:21.360 And so East Pakistani people who speaks another language, Bangla, they said, okay, yes, we

02:00:30.620 are Muslim, but we want our country as well, because every time it's the president and

02:00:40.520 the Prime Minister are selected from West Pakistan.

02:00:45.060 What about us?

02:00:46.740 And so back in 1971, as I mentioned, there was war between India and Pakistan.

02:00:53.420 That was what was going on and they rebelled and became that country.

02:01:00.000 I'm not sure why I told you all this.

02:01:02.300 No, it's interesting.

02:01:03.260 I think we kind of asked because 47 is a crazy year.

02:01:06.800 A lot of stuff happens in 47.

02:01:08.300 And we're like, for us, it's the beginning of the CIA, the end of World War II, the beginning of a bunch of programs, intelligence.

02:01:15.180 Yeah, I mean, Israel came into existence in 1948.

02:01:18.240 It's a very, very peculiar time. 0.64

02:01:20.420 Yeah, the Christian had been wanting to do that, but still was wanting to keep a grip on the Middle East. 0.83

02:01:28.500 Was that the Dead Sea Scrolls, too, were also found? 0.58

02:01:30.800 Yes, in 1947.

02:01:32.100 Yeah, a suspicious year.

02:01:34.800 Very, just a crazy, crazy year where a bunch of crazy things happened.

02:01:38.180 some good things oh yeah as well i mean the establishment of israel and uh uh of course

02:01:44.100 they were given the uh other people called themselves palestinian they were given a chance to

02:01:51.220 have other country but jordan and egypt did not like it because they had to lose some part of

02:01:57.060 their land to establish this palestine so they didn't want to so they indirectly started a war

02:02:06.100 against Israel.

02:02:08.520 You know the rest of the story. 0.90

02:02:10.060 We're still doing it.

02:02:11.140 All this thing is still doing it.

02:02:12.800 Still continues.

02:02:13.860 But God is still at work.

02:02:15.280 Even the Dead Sea School,

02:02:16.460 God still,

02:02:17.180 there have been people

02:02:18.040 who've been complaining

02:02:19.200 and Sinead saying,

02:02:21.200 oh, these Christians,

02:02:22.340 they quote Isaiah. 0.98

02:02:23.980 Yeah, yeah.

02:02:24.820 And then these are

02:02:26.160 ninth century manuscript

02:02:27.680 they have and all this thing.

02:02:29.720 And well,

02:02:31.720 then they found Dead Sea School.

02:02:33.240 Yep.

02:02:33.840 Oh, interesting question.

02:02:35.220 What do you,

02:02:35.580 what's your take then on uh on the book of enoch obviously the show it's a kind of a joke about

02:02:40.560 nephilim death squad and we don't really even talk about nephilim anymore but it was very much

02:02:45.020 in the start of it but it takes you everywhere so enoch is mentioned in jude it's quoted directly

02:02:49.800 and it's in the dead sea school as well right yeah do you lend any veracity to it well um i mean

02:02:55.060 jude mentions it as you mentioned that uh but then here is uh another question comes along

02:03:04.820 that Paul was quoting from in the book of Acts,

02:03:14.280 we find in chapter 17,

02:03:17.820 many of the Athenian philosophy,

02:03:21.060 does that mean that we should accept that?

02:03:24.340 So it becomes a question that here is...

02:03:28.180 That's actually a great point.

02:03:29.800 Here's Jude referring to that.

02:03:31.920 Even Paul mentions that those people who get baptism for the dead people, if there is no resurrection, so even their thinking is. 0.61

02:03:42.740 Although Mormons will say, oh, that's why we baptize dead people.

02:03:47.140 But what theological aspect he was mentioning, that those people who are even wrong, they are further wrong.

02:03:54.420 Because if we say Christ was not resurrected, then all these things mean nothing.

02:04:00.980 Right. So in that respect, I see, yes, there is a possibility. There were many books like in the Old Testament, we would be reading something and then it will say the book of Harsha says this and this book has more information.

02:04:18.000 And this book has more information.

02:04:20.420 So somehow it is quite acceptable when it comes to Jesus.

02:04:27.860 He quoted quite a few things.

02:04:31.160 And even these apostles mentioned quite a few things from the Bible. 0.78

02:04:36.140 But most of the Bible they were presenting is like the Jewish people had accepted.

02:04:42.420 Why these other books were aside, I think that even they believe that some of them are apocrypha.

02:04:52.320 Like there are apocrypha gospels, there were apocrypha things as well.

02:04:57.000 So, like Paul said, test everything and hold on to what is good.

02:05:03.020 So, the Bible is our criterion.

02:05:05.900 That's the main thing for us, because it was accepted by the majority of the people.

02:05:10.980 uh and these other things if they are to be used for further uh kind of support exploration yeah

02:05:24.760 exploration why not yeah that's kind of how we treat it it's like a it's an interesting side

02:05:29.700 story not scripture yes but we go oh wow fascinating yeah all right see for example

02:05:34.320 the quran uh says a lot of things about and muslims believe a lot of things about jesus

02:05:40.960 which our jewish friends do not does it mean that i should take the quran as the word of god

02:05:46.880 it's a problem because there are main themes missing there and so you set it aside that okay

02:05:53.920 uh this jesus believed by them his virgin birth is believed on them and of course that he performed

02:06:01.020 miracles according to the quran as well and he will raise the dead yeah so much so that uh at

02:06:07.180 one place the quran says that when jesus was growing up he will make birds of clay and will 0.67

02:06:15.200 breathe into them and they will fly away so all those other things it doesn't bother me very much

02:06:22.860 but what bothers me is that the main purpose god sent jesus into this world that's missing from

02:06:30.600 the Quran. Right. So I will be very careful. The same is with the book of Enoch that, okay, it is

02:06:37.300 here. It is attributed to Enoch, but how much story goes behind or beyond that? When was it written?

02:06:44.760 And of course they will say, well, it was perhaps a hundred years before Christ. This book was in

02:06:50.100 existence among them. But again, we do not know. So we just leave it aside and say, okay, what we

02:06:57.660 know is that collectively the criterion is the scripture for us if whatever is the book of enoch

02:07:05.440 appears also in the scripture we take that now there are studies studies and in uh study on

02:07:16.780 angels and the fallen angels uh which are available in these type of books what should we do

02:07:23.600 but is this part of our faith that if i don't believe in them no it's not a salvation issue

02:07:31.380 right so it's not a salvation issue we look at it and we'll end it here but we look at it like a

02:07:37.680 especially with like the coming ufo stuff there's like a lot of like weird alien things going on and

02:07:43.560 um i just kind of use this as a little bit of a a guide to sort of discern some of these things

02:07:50.920 that are coming that demonic things yeah yeah and even at the least it's a fascinating window

02:07:56.660 into what they were people of that era thought about you know the spiritual realm and and the

02:08:02.020 entities that inhabited the earth or you know any of these things um but like you said it's not a

02:08:08.020 salvation issue we didn't even touch the like the outer space idea uh we didn't even touch oh please 0.97

02:08:13.920 there's so much the Muslims are doing himself and then uh look uh the old testament prophet who was 0.97

02:08:21.020 taken and uh Elijah is saying yeah teacher teacher you are leaving me alone here yeah so it's and 0.97

02:08:28.860 then there's that rock at Mecca that again I guess maybe for another episode another conversation

02:08:33.640 there's like there's a lot of stuff going on oh yeah which is why we start to like look at all

02:08:38.000 these other things it'll drive you crazy but it's I guess and none of it's really that important

02:08:42.020 except for to stay away from, it helps me to stay away from the obvious deception that's trying to

02:08:47.700 be poked at us. As far as with the black stone of Mecca, there were many stones among, even in

02:08:56.140 Paul's time, in these temples around. Even in the book of Acts, we find that when people were

02:09:03.920 very much against Barnabas and Paul, they said, you know, because they did not want to see

02:09:12.260 people following Barnabas and Silas and Paul, because all their business would go down.

02:09:20.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:09:21.360 And so they said, you know, we have the stone which came from heaven, we have hit here

02:09:29.420 in our midst in the temple.

02:09:32.880 So there had been people

02:09:34.040 who had been worshipping meteoroids

02:09:36.080 for quite a while.

02:09:40.200 So if a meteorite kind of appeared

02:09:42.300 somewhere in the desert

02:09:44.780 and it was taken to worship it,

02:09:47.700 but the Arabs also had been doing,

02:09:49.560 and they were actually,

02:09:50.340 the Arabs were more borrowers of ideologies

02:09:53.820 from around in that region. 1.00

02:09:56.300 And that's what they did.

02:09:57.500 interesting very interesting well dr masu thank you again for coming on i think fascinating

02:10:04.280 conversation i had a lot of fun one more time what's the name of the website just for people

02:10:08.240 that are listening okay it is jesus2muslims.org jesus says it is and t-o and m-u-s-l-i-m-s

02:10:18.020 muslims.org there you go guys uh go over there go check that out check out the work that he's

02:10:23.240 doing because it's it's pretty cool not just a great resource for muslims but i mean if if you're

02:10:28.320 a christian as well i mean this is something that um it seems like a really effective tool to help

02:10:33.260 you along in your faith yeah you're gonna eventually run into a muslim so learn how to

02:10:37.360 talk to him that's true dr masu thank you for coming on while they are there they can click on 0.96

02:10:43.200 on the right side uh seminars and oh i see yeah yeah and they can click on it and there are a lot

02:10:51.480 of information available there on that page. There are further links. We have studies and

02:10:59.120 we have, and if they go to the store side of it as well, they can find these books there.

02:11:05.960 And of course, whatever we give to friends, we stand by it and we also help Christian

02:11:16.760 friends to how to reach muslims so we're there and even if a muslim wants to know more about christ

02:11:23.880 uh we want to share uh yes it all comes down that all the good things and everything which

02:11:30.360 we are doing for what and then it comes to our eternity and that eternity is only available

02:11:39.240 through Christ. Yes, the other

02:11:41.200 side of the eternity is

02:11:42.900 forever hell. So

02:11:44.880 like Ra'afideen,

02:11:47.240 there is no compulsion in the faith.

02:11:49.440 If you want to really be

02:11:51.140 on the right side, we believe that

02:11:53.240 that is only through Christ.

02:11:55.140 Yeah, I agree. You're selling

02:11:57.020 something, it's almost unfair

02:11:59.080 what you're selling, right? The path

02:12:01.180 is narrow. Guys, thank you for tuning

02:12:03.060 in and until next time, don't forget to

02:12:05.180 obey, submit, and comply. We'll see

02:12:07.220 you later. 1.00

02:12:09.240 Bred with daughters of men 0.99

02:12:12.100 And they will do it again 1.00

02:12:16.540 The end is written in the book

02:12:20.640 In the pages they forsake

02:12:24.640 Deathspawn

02:12:26.440 Deathspawn

02:12:30.580 Deathspawn

02:12:34.720 Deathspawn

02:12:37.720 When the last trumpet sounds

02:12:50.140 And the heavens

Nephilim Death Squad - June 28, 2026

The Road to Christ w⧸ Dr Steven Masood

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript