00:02:28.480And the good news is you can still get – I mean, it's all good news for us.
00:02:30.900But the good news is you can still get general admission tickets, and those are going to be going on sale to the general public this coming Monday, so the 27th.
00:02:39.580So you've got a couple of days left, guys, on the Patreon to get those tickets before the filthy pours do, and that's going to be disgusting and off-putting.
00:02:48.560Go ahead and grab those at toplobso.com.
00:02:50.700Or you can grab a T-shirt if you don't want to come.
00:02:52.720i could do that yeah why not both why not why not both buy a t-shirt wash it yeah show up we have a
00:02:58.240really fun guest today when you show up show up clean also i don't want to smell you uh joining
00:03:03.200us today is jeff of badgerland legends jeff thank you for joining us before we get into the
00:03:07.920conversation uh tell everybody what it is you do and where they can find what it is you do
00:03:12.880yeah i'm a writer and researcher out of wisconsin so i focus mainly on monsters myths legends
00:03:19.760you know cryptids ufos ghosts hauntings and forgotten history and i got a great piece of
00:03:26.160forgotten history for you guys today very cool yeah uh we were talking a little bit before the
00:03:32.020show you said something interesting uh that i thought was kind of fun you said that before
00:03:36.360or the day that um you booked a a raven appeared in your in your yard you said your wife called
00:03:43.720you over and just before the show started we were having this discussion raven is actually
00:03:47.360a decent sized bird man people think they see crows tops been seeing crows for a while he thinks
00:03:52.500he's been seeing ravens i'm like no dude that's a big bird when you see it yeah it stands out in
00:03:57.700fact i remember uh this video i was watching once of this woman she's got this raven and it's it's
00:04:02.900it does a mimic and it can do like a human's voice or something to that effect and i just remember it
00:04:07.900was horrifying i think it was like laughing or doing something that was supposed to be like fun
00:04:13.080and cheerful and the whole caption was like if you heard this in the forest at night you would
00:04:18.100almost certainly think you were being you know tracked by some malicious entity uh but i you
00:04:23.940know just a fun story that you saw one right when you booked yeah it was crazy because um they're
00:04:29.240native wisconsin but like you said crows very calmer ravens not so much so uh so notable in
00:04:35.820fact that my wife called me over to the window to actually take a peek out of it and i'm just like
00:04:40.560you're not gonna believe this but i just booked a show with a guy by the name of the raven and to
00:04:47.220see that was just kind of a cute little synchronicity did she say why is a guy that's
00:04:51.880exactly the next question was waiting i say all kinds of crazy stuff and she doesn't even have
00:04:56.780time to uh digest it so she just moved on she's like oh cool it's profound to me yeah that's how
00:05:05.460it goes with uh with my wife every time i'm driving in the morning or something i go well
00:05:09.860look at the way they're spraying the skies it's like in a grid pattern and she yep my wife just
00:05:14.600goes she pats me on the head she goes that's nice honey job i go no you don't understand by the time
00:05:18.420it's noon it's gonna spread out and it's gonna block the sun and then noon comes around and i
00:05:22.620go look see and she goes uh-huh it's actually this is how bad it's gotten uh my wife just had
00:05:27.960a birthday so happy birthday and thank you for the gift uh but one of her co-workers got her a
00:05:32.000pair of socks that said this is my conspiracy socks or something like that and i was like you're not
00:05:36.440even really a conspiracy theory by injection i suppose well yeah but not like i was like are you
00:05:41.800saying crazy stuff and she's like i don't think i am that's what so every once in a while a fan of
00:05:46.000this show will somehow like interact with my wife on social media and they'll want to say something
00:05:51.680conspiratorial to her and she'll go i just don't i don't know about these things and i go you kind0.96
00:05:56.440of do all you gotta do is just repeat any number of the crazy shit that i've been saying for0.92
00:06:01.880you know we've been married for a decade but i've been doing this to her since she was 17 we were in0.97
00:06:07.600high school um just blapping her up with terrifying information i'm just i'm just hey just repeat it
00:06:12.380back they just want reciprocation it'll feel great like a raven it doesn't matter what they say just
00:06:16.560say like they're poison in the water and they're gonna go yes that's what i'm talking about and
00:06:20.660it's gonna be really nice gonna be a nice interaction it sounds like um we need to get
00:06:24.500her on top's mom instagram feed yeah just come on to her honestly i don't know if anybody should
00:06:31.620be on top's mom's instagram equal parts terrified equal parts trump hater if you're not built the
00:06:37.200right way it's just black pill after black pill after black pill my mom's different
00:06:41.500so um what are we what are we getting into today jeff you know i got a great little presentation
00:06:48.660for you guys uh i'll pull it up real quick here are you going to share it um we can we can share
00:06:55.420things to the screen yep okay let me know when when you're up there it is here here we go
00:07:01.200okay okay so the white lady of champion is what i titled this interesting to that so our story
00:07:12.620starts in a small belgium community today it's called champion wisconsin this is 1859 it's in
00:07:21.180the wilds of wisconsin um if you look at the map here we got green bay as the closest city today
00:07:29.380Now at the time, Green Bay, it's a bustling community. It's quickly being settled by immigrants specifically, like the Belgians, the Dutch, and the Germans. They're all making their way through Ellis Island, up through the St. Lawrence River, down the big lakes of Michigan, Superior, to Green Bay.
00:07:49.340And they are looking to carve out an existence in the wilds of Wisconsin.
00:07:57.660And now by 1859, Wisconsin, it's only been a state for about 10 years.0.51
00:08:03.140Settlers are still making their way in and they're looking for an opportunity to have their own land in their own communities in the Wild West.
00:08:12.000now the story i'm going to tell you about today is it's centers around a small belgian community
00:08:18.680like i said called champion today it's only about 15 miles from green bay but
00:08:23.560you know today that's not very far but in those days we're talking about wagon roads we're talking
00:08:30.000about indian trails and even at the time it was very rote so even if you drive there today to
00:08:36.820visit the shrine that i'm going to tell you about it's all back roads county roads it's mostly farm
00:08:43.300fields and villages so even today it's it's it's relatively unsettled and the middle of nowhere
00:08:52.180so imagine the dutch back then it would have been mostly inaccessible during uh certain parts of
00:08:57.780the winter right because it snows like crazy up there it snows in in your only way to get from
00:09:02.180community communities by you know either by foot or by horse maybe maybe wagon depending on the
00:09:07.780conditions of the road but yeah you're you're really on your own so the need for small tight
00:09:13.940knit communities um mostly farming agrarian lifestyle is all that was available too but one
00:09:20.820keynote about these people these belgians that made their way to wisconsin was they were primarily
00:09:27.300catholic and devoutly catholic at that so we're talking early october 1859 uh the story centers
00:09:36.100around a young belgian woman her name is adele bryce and she's walking in a forest near her home
00:09:42.900near her family's farm now this is a route that she takes regularly especially during
00:09:47.940harvest season it's the route taken from her family's farm to the grist mill it's october
00:09:54.100like i said harvest season she's carrying a sack of wheat on her head to deliver to the gristmill1.00
00:10:00.420to be turned into flour so real hard scrabble kind of salt of the earth existence that0.91
00:10:08.820adele living with her family is carving out of the wisconsin countryside so she's walking her way
00:10:16.020to the gristmill and she looks up ahead and she spots a lady in dazzling white and this lady
00:10:23.780is standing between a maple and a hemlock tree. And I'm not sure why in all the texts it specifically
00:10:30.480says a maple and a hemlock tree, but it's very specific. So Adele freezes in her tracks and
00:10:36.600she's frightened by this unknown visitor along the path. Now, like we said, Adele lives in a small
00:10:43.520Belgian community. She knows everybody in the surrounding community. So a stranger, especially
00:10:48.680one not dressed in farm clothes or peasant clothes of the time would definitely be out of
00:10:55.600the ordinary and a bit startling. So Adele frozen, she watches as this lady slowly disappears
00:11:06.060and she leaves behind a cloud of white smoke and that slowly dissipates. She's a bit startled,
00:11:15.220but she continues on her way to the mill, then eventually makes her way back home with seeing
00:11:20.300nothing more. So the following Sunday, it's October 9th, 1859. She is getting ready for mass
00:11:30.340and she gathers her sister and another neighbor lady to make an 11 mile hike from her farmstead
00:11:38.600to church. You know, when we go to church these days, you know, you hop in your car,
00:11:42.700you drive you're there five ten minutes right you know she had 11 mile hike to make just from her
00:11:49.260farm to the catholic congregation that she was a member of um and this is where she had her second
00:11:57.080encounter with the lady this time she was accompanied by her sister isabel and a neighbor
00:12:01.320woman in that same grove of trees between that maple and that hemlock tree she sees the lady
00:12:09.100again. But the other two women, they cannot see her. And they can tell that Adele is frightened.
00:12:17.000And again, the lady appears to her and then dissolves into a white cloud. Well, they make
00:12:25.500their way to mass and they have mass. And Adele sits with the priest, Father Verhof, for confession
00:12:35.000that day and she says that you know i have something on my mind i encountered this white
00:12:41.400lady so father verhoff he says to not fear that this is a heavenly messenger now he instructs
00:12:50.600adele to ask god to ask this visitor if she encounters her again in god's name who it who
00:12:58.920are you and what do you desire? So, as she's walking home that day, she goes by that same
00:13:07.180grove of trees and she encounters that lady once again. Now, this lady is clothed in dazzling white0.98
00:13:17.080with a yellow sash around her waist. Her dress fell to her knees in graceful folds. She had a1.00
00:13:23.880crown of stars around her head and her long golden wavy hair fell loosely over her shoulders
00:13:29.920and a heavenly light shone around her. Now, Adele remembered those words that she just received
00:13:37.720from Father Verhof only hours earlier and she exclaims, in God's name, who are you and what do
00:13:44.740you want from me? She received a reply. Now, David, I'm going to pull up this next slide and I want
00:13:52.260you to be the one to read it are you ready can you read i don't know if i could read i could do my0.87
00:13:58.660best okay okay try all right read it oh what the fuck man kidding me read it david when the red0.89
00:14:06.020star of regulus uh what i'm sorry when the red star and regulus are on the horizon is it regulus0.92
00:14:12.580or regulus are on the horizon in front of the gaze of the sphinx before daylight a new knowledge will
00:14:19.300come to humanity what year 1890 what 1890 okay david i'm i'm totally messing with you man0.91
00:14:27.360damn it that's a banger oh my god i had to get you with blood soap man that was good that was0.97
00:14:40.840really good because i of course the whole time you're saying white lady that's where my mind's0.99
00:14:45.280and i'm waiting for any uh connection i'm trying to count the stars on her head and all this other
00:14:49.920uh you know to see if there's any any connection or or you know big dramatic correlation and then
00:14:55.440all of a sudden i stepped in it uh that was very good good job jeff you're welcome i i had to tee
00:15:00.720that one up for you dave he told me before too he said that the whole raven thing in his yard was
00:15:04.560bullshit a yellow lobster walking across the floor he's gonna go this is all made up by the
00:15:12.160end of it he's gonna be like i just made all of this oh my god all right please continue anyway1.00
00:15:19.360so the lady says i am the queen of heaven who prays for the conversion of sinners
00:15:25.520and i wish you to do the same you received holy communion this morning and that is well but you
00:15:32.000must do more make a general confession and offer communion for the conversion of sinners if they
00:15:39.040do not convert and do penance my son will be obliged to punish them huh and that was the
00:15:47.440first message that she received from the white lady i am the queen of heaven not far off yeah i0.74
00:15:55.200mean she's describing herself as the queen of heaven i believe that bledsoe's lady also i
00:15:59.200i mean she's got many names but that's one of them yeah and we'll get into that definitely but
00:16:06.080none of the others in her party could see this white lady now they asked who she was and adele0.97
00:16:13.120replied the lady says she is the queen of heaven the lady turned to look at her party and said
00:16:19.280blessed are they that believe without seeing she asked del what are you doing here in idleness
00:16:26.480with your companion or while your companions are working in the vineyard of my son weeping
00:16:33.920adele asked what more can i do dear lady the lady replied gather the children in this wild country
00:16:41.360and teach them what they should know for salvation adele replied but how shall i teach them who know
00:16:48.480so little myself teach them the catechism how to sign themselves with the sign of the cross
00:16:54.960and how to approach the sacraments that is what i wish you to do go and fear nothing i will help you
00:17:03.320the lady raised her hands as though giving adele and her parting a party a blessing
00:17:11.460and then she slowly vanished now that was the third and final apparition that adele witnessed
00:17:19.160and it was on the same day as the second. So Adele with this message she ventured forth to
00:17:25.760give her testimony. Now most including her family believed Adele sincerely while others believed
00:17:32.480maybe she had a little psychological issue. Her father even built a log cabin or log chapel about
00:17:40.10010 by 12 near the place of the apparition. Now Adele reflected on those words from the queen of
00:17:47.780heaven. What are you doing here in your idleness while your companions are working in the vineyard
00:17:52.380of my son? Now, what was little known at the time was that before Adele moved from Belgium to
00:18:00.120Wisconsin, she had planned to enter the order and become a nun or a sister. Now, the name Champion,
00:18:08.600Champion Wisconsin, was a town in Belgium where they had, I think, a monastery, or I'm not sure
00:18:17.660the exact word, but where she had planned to become a nun. But instead, she rejected her
00:18:23.420vocation, and she moved to Wisconsin. Now, after the apparition, she wasted no time. She took the
00:18:32.220lady's advice and said, what are you doing here in your idleness? And her father built that chapel
00:18:37.260immediately, and then they upgraded the chapel throughout the years and built a school. Now,
00:18:44.380in 1869 she opened a boarding school which housed the children from the wilds and gave them a
00:18:50.400proper catholic education the school was upgraded in 1885 and it's the one that's seen on this
00:18:57.760slide here so uh going from just a grove of trees to a very modest chapel to a larger chapel with a
00:19:07.040school uh was quite the accomplishment in an undertaking for a a peasant girl from belgium
00:19:14.120that knew little or nothing now here's where it gets kind of crazy i mean that by the way that0.97
00:19:21.300does a lot to kind of you know it's like um the idea that people wouldn't die for something that's
00:19:27.040not real right uh people aren't gonna yeah painstakingly build something in 1890 something
00:19:33.980in the middle of you know a difficult a difficult terrain um in a time where these things aren't
00:19:40.980easily accessible as far as the the labor and the materials to do such a thing and also you're a0.97
00:19:45.980peasant girl uh just layers of difficulty to pull off something like that i don't think a peasant
00:19:52.180girl explains to her her priest that this happens he says test the spirits she comes back and he's
00:19:57.440like yeah they said to build something and then then they do it uh kind of an odd story i don't
00:20:03.240think you're you're moved to that degree by nothing you know so it seems like it'd be a pretty
00:20:08.900far way to go for something that was a hoax or something that was just a delusion you know you
00:20:16.180you meet people that are delusional they don't have a lot of drive they don't have a lot of
00:20:20.120gumption they don't get a lot of stuff done for her to uh experience this encounter and then
00:20:25.320actually build something that still stands to this day is quite remarkable so um it's about 12 years
00:20:34.120to the day um of the original apparition or the the most profound apparition that she had
00:20:41.240and it's october 8th so it's one day short now if i had to ask you guys if you could think of
00:20:48.920the most destructive fire in u.s history what would you say uh wasn't there like the fires of
00:20:54.840la well i mean the the last fires of la are the ones before those were wild um i'm thinking
00:20:59.880historical um what the hell was the there's there's a giant one that great chicago fires
00:21:07.080probably right so there is one that was more destructive and more widespread but the reason
00:21:14.520that the greatest forest fire in u.s history got little play is because it happened exactly
00:21:21.400the day before the great chicago fire and that was oh wow the peshtico fire and that
00:21:26.920happened october 8 1871 one day short of that 12-year anniversary of the lady giving the
00:21:33.400message to adele now it was the most destructive forest fire it claimed 1.2 million acres it was
00:21:40.200also the deadliest wire fire wildfire in recorded history uh it's said to have taken between 1500
00:21:47.320in 2500 lives unfortunately the census records weren't very extensive at the time and it's
00:21:55.720really hard to quantify because the flames were so hot and so widespread that it rendered almost
00:22:02.440everything it touched to ash there was even stories about a fire nato or like a cyclone
00:22:09.240a fire coming out of the Pashtego fire that uh just scorched the land and where where does that
00:22:17.960story sit with our story so if you look at a map of the devastation I have one on
00:22:23.800the slide here you'll see that Adele's shrine was right in the middle of the path of devastation
00:22:31.320so the area in black is the scope of the devastation if you look at the the tiny little
00:22:36.360green dot is the shrine, which included the chapel and the schoolhouse. And it was, like I said,
00:22:41.740right in the path of devastation. So many of the locals from the area, they fled to the chapel
00:22:48.440for refuge. Now Adele and her companions, they prayed for Mary's protection. Now they lifted a
00:22:56.080statue of Mary and proceeded around the grounds, praying the rosary, singing hymns to Jesus and
00:23:03.520the Blessed Mother. And when that smoke cleared the next day, the sun rose. It was only the church
00:23:10.180and the school that were spared from the devastation. The flames made their way to the
00:23:14.800fence line that surrounded the church, but the grounds chapel and school untouched. So they
00:23:20.860considered that to be a miracle. So there was a priest that was present in Pashtunco at the time,
00:28:33.820But so how do we square, like you said, David, the Queen of Heaven with our Christian faith?
00:28:39.900Now, the Queen of Heaven is referenced in the book of Jeremiah, as you said,
00:28:43.620specifically referring to making offers to a female deity.
00:28:48.000Now, not much context is given within the passages, but biblical scholars, of which I am not one, I'm not a theologian, believe the title would be either Anana for the Mesopotamian god, Anat, also Mesopotamian, Isis, Egypt, I believe Jeremiah was written while in Egypt, Ishtar, Asheroth, which was the wife of Baal, or Asherah, who was the wife of El.
00:29:13.920And now in the passages, it talks about them pouring out drinks or making offerings to this goddess figure, this queen of heaven.
00:29:24.840Now, where the Catholics come down on this is, they say since Jeremiah was the Old Testament, it occurred about 600 BC, it predated Mary's life by six centuries, they cannot be referring to Mary, and they agree that this was likely a pagan deity that they're calling the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah.
00:29:46.180um they but they think that the connection to the queen of heaven which they venerate as mary
00:29:52.820is been taken out of context by that scripture now the fact that these pagan pagan groups believed
00:30:00.060in other supreme deities as kings of heaven in their pantheon it opens the door to a queen of
00:30:08.380heaven in that same pantheon so if it's a pagan pantheon that they're worshiping obviously there
00:30:15.200would be a king of heaven and a queen of heaven and not necessarily the same as what the catholics
00:30:21.080consider to be the catholic queen of heaven which would be the mother mary so when we put it into a
00:30:28.000christian or more specifically catholic context with a god as king the king of heaven this would
00:30:34.420make mary the queen so that's that's the catholic defense on that it's not too unreasonable i mean
00:30:41.700And when you look at these things, there's a constant attempt to invert and and create a counterfeit version of, you know, the Immaculate Conception, a counterfeit version of Jesus, and obviously a counterfeit version of God when these different entities claim to be, you know, the highest God.
00:31:04.280And so the idea that there wouldn't be a counterfeit queen of heaven if there was a real one isn't lost on me.
00:31:10.720Yeah, absolutely. So, to add a little more context here, we have to turn to the New Testament, specifically Revelation 12. Now, the child in this passage is interpreted as Jesus. Waltz assumed that this woman clothed with a son is the earthly mother, the queen now in heaven.
00:31:32.420So Revelation 12 reads, a great sign appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars.
00:33:07.820So, you know, the belief that the Virgin Mary was taking body and soul into heaven at the end of an earthly life is a unique case in Christian theology.
00:33:20.300Theology because it's not explicitly narrated in the Bible.
00:33:26.840Now, unlike the ascension of Jesus Christ, there's no chapter or verse that describes the events of Mary's eventual death taking place.
00:33:38.680Now, Jesus' narrative of being taken into heaven is called the ascension.
00:33:44.200Now, in Catholicism, the phenomenon of Mary is called the assumption.
00:33:50.020Now, where the assumption difference is that Mary lived out her life on earth, died in her body, and then her body was assumed into heaven.
00:33:58.080Now, the belief is, again, not supported by scripture. It's a remnant of early church tradition.
00:34:05.900So that's where the Catholics get their mooring from as far as the divinity of Mary.
00:34:13.360Now, their logic's derived from Luke 128, where Mary was hailed full of grace.
00:34:18.800Now, her preservation and purity from the wages of sin, which corrupt the body in death, weren't present because she is full of grace.
00:34:44.880Where these saintly people, they die, but instead of undergoing the normal decay and death processes, their bodies are preserved as if they're alive, and they call them the uncorrupted saints.
00:35:01.680And that is one of the signs that the Catholics point to when they're saying somebody was saintly, saying that their body was uncorrupted after their death.
00:35:10.980now the eastern orthodox tradition of dormition talks of mary falling asleep they're traced to
00:35:18.420the fourth and fifth century writings now the catholics they also remain purposely vague on
00:35:23.580whether mary died the eastern orthodox have settled on the dormition that mary died a worldly
00:35:30.220death was buried by the apostle apostles now i'm not eastern orthodox so this was news to me when
00:35:35.940I dug it up and three days later her tomb was empty unlike Christ's crucifixion where he arose
00:35:41.780the third day Mary was taken into heaven body and flesh from the tomb so that's do all eastern0.91
00:35:48.560orthodox believe this that's a good question I I'm not ingratiated in any eastern orthodox
00:35:55.740orthodox circles so I'm not really sure who to to ask that question to but that's from from my
00:36:02.840cursory understanding as that was but if somebody has a different interpretation on that or a
00:36:08.220different tradition i'd love to hear that so that's uh really the summation of the miracle
00:36:15.160at champion and the genesis of mary now you can visit the shrine today i actually got a chance to
00:36:25.060last summer on our way back from a road trip um i took her teacher i had no idea that it
00:36:32.740so close to the route and it's a well preserved chapel there they have a beautiful grounds there
00:36:39.300they welcome visitors um i believe there was uh there was some kind of service in concession so
00:36:45.940i didn't really get to explore too much i had the wife and the kids in the car so uh i couldn't spend
00:36:50.980too much time there but i was able to grab a couple pamphlets and just be like i i gotta look
00:36:56.820into this deeper and i'm glad i was able to put this together for you guys man it's interesting
00:37:02.900because just in the story that you've told us i don't you know um it's news to me but what's been
00:37:09.700presented here i don't see any any holes or anything that would raise alarm um which is
00:37:15.620tricky because as this show has progressed this idea of the lady has become uh a bit of a talking
00:37:22.900point or a sticking point and usually when i hear of this thing you know in the in the case of the
00:37:31.040bledsoes which you know we briefly talked about before um presenting yourself and identifying
00:37:38.220yourself as ishtar and isis and all these other things that's a pretty safe um
00:37:44.840you know you're you're in good standing if you're skeptical of that entity i think and then to go
00:37:51.960a step further and say that when this star alignment happens, this knowledge is going to
00:37:58.280be exposed to humanity. We're going to wake up to this new knowledge. All of that sounds like
00:38:02.940Gnostic New Age bullshit. The story that you've told doesn't have any of those earmarks. It doesn't0.99
00:38:10.700feel the same. And the Fatima story is a fascinating one because within that, there are
00:38:20.660descriptives of this entity appearing initially as like a a silver disc i believe if you look into
00:38:28.280it and that's something that recently i i dramatically undershot the amount of people
00:38:33.740who had witnessed this thing because it said that it would return and since it would return people
00:38:39.720were able to to know the day and and come and anticipate it and it did in fact return and
00:38:45.220And what I thought was 7,000 people was actually 70,000 people witnessing this event.
00:38:54.820I don't really remember what this thing said as far as knowledge that was imparted.
00:39:00.280But even hearing this idea of it appearing as a silver disc, that all gives me pause.
00:39:07.700And I'm not saying that there isn't maybe some argument to be made that some of these –
00:39:14.700you see them in religious paintings you know ufos what you would describe as a ufo yeah insinuating
00:39:20.380that they they've accompanied these religious um events or sightings but it's all very very muddy
00:39:28.780and i understand the the what would you call it impersonating god impersonating mother mary
00:39:38.860impersonating jesus we hear that quite a bit i've heard horrifying stories of people interacting
00:39:44.380with entities that were impersonating jesus and so and then if you look back at all these pagan
00:39:50.940uh pantheons there is usually some sort of you know mother father son story that seems to be
00:39:59.740an uh you know an inversion or uh um a counterfeit so maybe when we're looking at this
00:40:10.060whatever it is the lady uh isis ishtar maybe that is a direct counterfeit maybe these things are
00:40:19.200separate maybe the story that you've told here is separate that's just where my head's at and um
00:40:23.260yeah i'm glad i gave you guys something to uh to think on here and you know this is definitely
00:40:28.720something to roll around with your other guests like um like ed i know his uh his anti-catholic
00:40:34.320stance will actually come in uh really handy for this uh for this specific topic now um you know
00:40:43.360full disclosure i was raised catholic and i say i gave it up for lent so i identify as a christian
00:40:49.900uh first and foremost um and then you know i just try to be you know scripturally sound as possible
00:40:57.000but when something like this comes up i always try to to square it and over the weekend i was
00:41:03.020talking my brother-in-law is actually a lutheran minister and i asked him about this because they
00:41:09.480don't do the mary veneration in the the lutheran church that was kind of a schismatic piece where
00:41:16.600the lutherans kind of broke off and like jesus the supreme um whereas the catholics uh ardent
00:41:23.440ardent mary veneration and uh i asked him i said what do you make of this and you know he he said
00:41:31.980he'd have to really think on it and my mom who was raised catholic raised me catholic you know
00:41:38.440she she said well you hear about all these marian apparitions and they always point to jesus and
00:41:44.260they say you know honor my son or you know do this so it's like where does that square and i see one
00:41:51.320of your commenters put in you know nine truths to tell a lie and i know that's kind of a a motto
00:41:56.620of the the nds universe yes so where where is the lie and i know i can see david's gear spinning
00:42:03.740there trying to figure out okay where where's the deception here if you know this this is mother
00:42:08.760mary you know i think there's a there's safety in focusing on christ and i think that um you know to0.89
00:42:18.800to be a mortal fleshy retard that's on the earth for 80 to 90 years and to try to understand the0.87
00:42:25.300complexities and the deceptions of the spiritual realm it's a lofty endeavor and i think that0.89
00:42:30.200and it can lead you astray it can lead you astray and i think that your safest bet is knowing god
00:42:39.220understanding god to the best of your abilities because when something tries to counterfeit god
00:42:45.760you're going to be in safe standing if you know the real thing right like uh i think it was
00:42:50.420walden jamie walden was talking about people that understand money really well
00:42:55.160And they don't study the counterfeit. They study the real money so that when the counterfeit comes along, it doesn't matter how many times you try to counterfeit it, whatever different methodology you try, you're so familiar with the real thing, you're not going to fall for it.
00:43:07.120So in that way, focusing on Jesus Christ and putting all your efforts there is going to make it so that you can't be deceived. So maybe that is why – I don't know. It just seems like there's not a tremendous amount of focus.
00:43:24.000I mean, you're talking about within Catholicism and Christian Orthodoxy that there is some focus on on Mary.
00:43:31.920And I know Protestants, non-denominal, whatever it is, they get made fun of because it's like there is this absence of deep knowledge of the history of things and the tradition of things.
00:43:45.620But I see that even within Catholicism, you have – we talk about it all the time – hoodoo or voodoo or santeria that is masking itself as the saints.
00:43:57.320They're hiding their gods behind the visage of the Catholic saints.
00:44:01.480And so in some way, if you strip all of the other apparatus away and you live a life where you're focusing on, you know, going forth and sinning no more, a life of repentance and of following Christ and focusing solely on Jesus Christ, I can see that, you know, in some ways we call it grandma maxing on the show.
00:44:21.300And that's usually within the supernatural context of not being deceived by aliens.
00:44:25.400But in the same way, if you're just only focusing on Christ, you're not going to fall for this other thing that's counterfeiting itself as Mary.
00:44:33.540In fact, I don't think that, you know, let's say hypothetically Mother Mary is truly the queen of heaven.
00:44:38.720I don't think she's going to be bummed out when you're like, sorry, I'm focusing on Jesus.
00:44:43.580Like, I don't know what's going on with you, lady, because, you know, the waters are so muddied.
00:44:48.420um if everything is going to be counterfeited at some point it almost makes sense to take a little
00:44:55.740bit more of a reductive and narrow view you know calling christianity the narrow path um jesus
00:45:02.540christ is the way to the father i think you probably would be because it gets crazy you
00:45:08.940step outside of it and you start to lean on your own understanding of things and well but maybe
00:45:14.000there is a queen of heaven. I'd say probably not. The way I see it is it's a great story. And if
00:45:21.520legitimate, if true, you can see the pathways to which why an entity would want to do this and
00:45:31.180maybe even have benevolent qualities to it and tell you the truth, or at least do these things
00:45:36.620that are the truth. Because in the end, what does this lead to? Like, what have we gotten here
00:45:40.900Besides, you know, we saved the chapel from a huge fire, which is like, how did that start?
00:45:46.240But that's a question that we can never know.
00:45:49.060In the end, what we have here is veracity to the deification of Mary.
00:52:33.280Never, and just, I'm going to think about the popularity of the Hail Mary prayer,
00:52:38.700even if you aren't a religious person, like I was aware of it throughout my childhood.
00:52:44.900But there's nowhere in the Bible that we're instructed to pray to or for Mother Mary.
00:52:54.740And if you look at the Mother Mary prayer, it says, you know, Hail Mary, full of grace, all these things.
00:53:03.580And then it goes on to say, Hail Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, which is just, you know, like I said.
00:53:13.100It's an interesting name, and especially what it's correlated to, like, you know, a football play, a Hail Mary would be, you're running out of time, this is your absolute last shot, but there's, like, a lot of risk to this as well.
00:53:24.500There's, like, a space movie right now out about an alien.
00:53:28.480Project Hail Mary, and it's all about an alien.
00:53:30.780Yeah, well, I mean, you know, in the football play, it's, like, not only is it dangerous because you're throwing a football way into the air, into the end zone, and you have pretty much all the defenders around you, so, like, it's ripe for interception.
00:53:43.100so you could get, you know, they could actually score a touchdown.
00:54:10.060Yeah, but somebody fucks up. Your guy could catch a baseball bat to the teeth or like a number of things can happen there. So like you're putting people at extreme risk and maybe it'll work. It's a Hail Mary, but like the odds are super low.0.79
00:54:23.700It's just interesting, man, because once again, praying to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit, and that prayer, the only mention of Jesus or God isn't praying.
00:54:40.620You're not even praying to Mary in the name of Jesus.
00:54:43.360There's a reference of the fruit of the womb of Mary, which is Jesus, and there's a reference to God, but it's specifically Mary being the mother of God.
00:54:52.480but but everything that we've learned is like this is the way when jesus christ says the the
00:54:59.140only way to the father is through the son nobody comes to the father but through the son right
00:55:04.860so in my mind i'm going okay i'm praying to god the father in the name of jesus christ
00:55:10.560um all of that is absent in this prayer that is like super popular super popular super well known
00:55:19.320There's like a Western cultural significance to a degree.
01:05:16.420Right. We have a dog like creature that's a guardian of the underworld in Egyptian mythology known as the Anubis or the Anubis. And that is a jackal headed entity, I believe. Right. That is guards the passage to the underworld. So was this thing trying to go back for whence it came? I don't know, but it is a compelling story.
01:05:41.720that's interesting because i wonder if they're like i've heard enough stories about these things
01:05:46.080and and let's say there is like a function or a purpose to them right like they do have this
01:05:49.740guarding the underworld kind of a situation and i've heard a couple of stories of them being
01:05:55.740near like graveyards and things like that um but so much of what i hear makes me suspect that
01:06:03.840maybe at some point one was killed because i do think you could kill them and it seems like almost
01:06:12.840like uh the military got their hands on them and like reverse engineered them because the other
01:06:16.980place that they seem to show up quite a bit is military bases if you can genetically for lack
01:06:25.780of a better term reverse engineer one of these things and you create one you know that's some
01:06:32.560sort of um lab created dog man which i know sounds crazy but i've heard so much about these things
01:06:40.180that it almost seems feasible if you could would you get rid of its nature in other words if you
01:06:48.280created a thing in a lab but that thing had a purpose and in nature it did exist and its purpose
01:06:56.440was related to you know the underworld the dead um and you created it in a lab would you then
01:07:04.760effectively have created a thing that's just lost like you release this thing out into the world
01:07:10.200and it's just trying to figure out how do i go about my job maybe maybe a better way to frame
01:07:16.200that is if you create in a lab entirely isolated a beagle or a bloodhound i don't think you
01:07:25.520eliminate its desire to track and hunt it's like a beagle or bloodhound is a dog that's uh
01:07:31.960selectively bred it's a good hunting partner and it's got this thing that it inherently wants to do
01:07:39.860it's actually even more fascinating when you when you frame it that way because we're dealing with
01:07:44.040something that seems to be part canid and so does it have this instinctual drive
01:07:49.620and does that drive have something to do with the underworld you know i've heard a lot of
01:07:55.660these stories too where these things will uh be in and around cave entrances you know that lead
01:08:05.220to like these tunnel systems and i've listened to shamans actually talk about shamans that have been
01:08:11.220um what would be a good way to put it like reformed reform shamans who realize the thing
01:08:19.540that they were practicing was a negative spiritual practice and they came to christ but i've heard
01:08:26.320them talk about how uh when they uh they practice skin walking now skin walking is a thing that
01:08:35.420apparently has layers to it it can happen in a way where an individual will perceive what they
01:08:41.420think is an animal but there's some sort of an illusion and it's actually a man but it's perceived
01:08:46.580as an animal and there's other versions where people are in their homes doing rituals and
01:08:53.120almost remote controlling an animal somewhere out in the world now in those stories i've heard them
01:08:58.060say yeah we access the underworld the way that we access the underworld is there is a physical
01:09:03.920tunnel or cave in reality and i think this is kind of seen in that in that show dark
01:09:09.920where you go into a physical cave but something spiritual happens in the cave
01:09:14.560um so these things these dogmen are often in and around these cave systems
01:09:22.500maybe just like a bloodhound has a natural inclination to to track and hunt maybe this
01:09:28.980thing has a natural inclination was built for this purpose and when they're building them in
01:09:33.800these labs maybe some of them get out and they're just lost you know so you come across a thing
01:09:39.460that's that's uttering a word a word for like the underworld effectively right that's what
01:09:44.420gadara more or less is and maybe maybe it's trying to figure that out maybe it's like a
01:09:51.220bloodhound made in a lab that when it gets out it's still trying to figure out like i'm supposed
01:09:56.280to be tracking and hunting and this thing's like i'm supposed to be guiding or or guarding or yeah0.83
01:10:01.680yeah wild so the um apparently the beast of railroad is still active today there's a gentleman
01:10:10.340that lives on the property now he often in the fall he'll do like guided hay rides and show
01:10:18.160around his field but he had set up the uh the ir trap cams the uh the game cameras trail cameras
01:10:24.580and he got some very bizarre results on those so what he would often do is when he found a
01:10:34.100a roadkill carcass of a deer he would drag it onto his property and put a trail cam over it
01:10:41.720and you would see his numbered pictures in progression with the deer carcass in front of
01:10:49.400the camera the next shot is like a cloud of smoke and then the shot after that all in numbered
01:10:57.860sequence um and this guy lee hample he's not he's he's he's an older gentleman he's not um
01:11:05.780as technologically advanced as this and this was years before ai so you would see the next shot
01:11:12.940and the carcass is gone so something was taking these carcasses um and then one of the most
01:11:18.780intriguing pictures that he showed me was just something like tracks through a field and you'd
01:11:27.860see like two tracks through a snow covered field and then nothing like something sucked whatever
01:11:36.380was making those tracks up into oblivion and he also caught a photo of an orb over his property
01:11:44.460and it almost looks like the outline of a wolf inside the orb so this guy's got something crazy
01:11:50.560going on on this property on just off of bray road it's bowers road today but i'm not sure what
01:11:57.920to make of it i know other people i've talked to think that they feel it's very ancient like maybe
01:12:03.820some of the indigenous tribes like you said uh david about the um the the shape the um skinwalkers
01:12:11.840right yeah so it's it's definitely intriguing there's so much media made on it i would
01:12:19.340if somebody's interested in that the small town monsters show uh beast of bray road take a look
01:12:25.740on that it was for freon prime it's really gives a good background on the phenomenon and who linda
01:12:32.840was and just the genesis of these sightings and what we think of them today it's a weird phenomenon
01:12:40.040on because just like bigfoot it starts to the more you look at it the the less uh physical and
01:12:45.360the more sort of like metaphysical it becomes you know you have stories of people i think um
01:12:49.760there's a famous one from the confessionals where a guy sees it in his dreams he has this dream of
01:12:57.220this dog man attacking his family and he intercedes and you know gets scratched in the morning he
01:13:04.080wakes up and he's got markings on his body and as if that's not strange enough after that i don't
01:13:11.140know if it's a few weeks few months whatever he's in the woods with his son and they're hunting
01:13:16.200or something like that but they see this thing so this guy is forced to deal with the idea that
01:13:23.380a thing he saw in his dreams somehow later on he sees in his real life and then you have this weird
01:13:30.240symbiotic relationship i know this is this might be a little bit new to some of the listeners uh
01:13:34.740because we don't often get an opportunity to talk about cryptids but this is something that i'm
01:13:39.040fascinated with and and this is mostly what i absorb actually is this sort of content so i'm
01:13:44.880very familiar with these stories and you know you have to kind of take them at at face value in the
01:13:51.520sense that they're their stories it's not confirmable there's not a tremendous amount of
01:13:55.600evidence left behind after these encounters but people will see them in what is described as
01:14:01.260almost working in tandem with bigfoot to the extent that i know that sounds wild i know i've
01:14:07.640heard you say this before and you said it's like almost like bigfoot's attack dog and the funny
01:14:12.520funny thing is that where railroad is it's by a section of designated wilderness called um the
01:14:19.620Kettle Moraine State Forest. And there are other people in that region that specifically track
01:14:26.740Bigfoot and have had encounters with a Bigfoot-like creature right along the same roaming
01:14:33.360range as the Wisconsin Dogman. So there might be a tie in there. Yeah, there's a lot of
01:14:40.520correlation between those two creatures, entities, I don't know what you would call them. And I've
01:14:46.140even heard consistencies in the way that they're described right because that's all you have is you
01:14:50.860have like patterns that emerge from one person's story to another person's story and you try to
01:14:55.020see if there's any overlap and eventually there's themes and patterns that are derived and one of
01:15:00.880them is that Bigfoot has this um intelligence about it and it is scary it's sentient it like
01:15:12.920the the feeling associated with bigfoot is typically pretty consistent and so is the one
01:15:19.540with dogman but with dogman it's evil it's demonic like the feeling that people get and
01:15:27.040there's even obviously like we said if they work in tandem then there's people that have experienced
01:15:30.380both and in those stories they'll delineate they'll go bigfoot feels one way and it is
01:15:36.940intimidating it is scary but it is also intelligent and it doesn't feel like dog man dog man feels
01:15:43.660demonic and evil and just wants to kill like an instinctual is what they yeah yeah and then there
01:15:49.780seems to be some level of bigfoot you know kind of calling it back not yet can't do a thing yet0.52
01:15:57.840can't can't kill a man yet and that's also the thing that they say is overwhelmingly you feel
01:16:02.220like these things could dismember you with ease but both of them when i said before that they seem
01:16:07.960to go into the metaphysical they seem to manifest sometimes out of nothing disappear into nothing
01:16:15.840they're often accompanied accompanied by orbs strange lights in the sky what people have
01:16:21.720described as as ufos so where previously people used to speculate as bigfoot you know uh gigantopithecus
01:16:29.380some missing branch of humanity that went into a strange direction or is it the missing link used
01:16:36.080to be the terminology associated with it. All of Bigfoot research went to this really weird place
01:16:43.060where a lot of people didn't follow. A lot of people just dropped off because it went
01:16:46.760so strange. The quantum Bigfoot is what they call it now. So there's a really good book out there
01:16:52.460by two of my favorite people in the field. It's called Where the Footprints End. It's by Timothy
01:16:57.540Renner and Joshua Cutchin uh and both of those guys kind of go that route and they say well
01:17:03.740where the footprint prints ends it's like okay at the end of those footprints there's no Bigfoot
01:17:09.380where did it go and they and one thing that Tim Renner really dives into is a lot of these
01:17:16.080historical accounts he calls it weirdwashed where people will report the the actual Bigfoot but if
01:17:25.040you looked deeper into their testimony you know the obviously the bigfoot encounter gets transmitted
01:17:30.720but what gets washed off of it is maybe they had poltergeist activity yeah maybe they saw lights
01:17:36.260in the sky or in the woods after that and that's not documented because that's a little too woo
01:17:40.940and they call they also call those people the woo footers kind of a derision towards that but i i
01:17:47.400think it's uh more of an all-encompassing phenomenon that uh that really we can't put
01:17:53.960of flesh and blood label on i think there's there's more to it the mechanics of it i have no
01:18:00.260idea but i it's fun to have these discussions for sure yeah i've started listening to wes germer's
01:18:06.800sasquatch chronicles and that's a really fun one because wes just lets them talk and they you know
01:18:12.720they unpack their entire encounter a lot of times he'll even say people will ask for the more extreme
01:18:19.060things to just be omitted or or can we just not talk about this because this thing did happen0.68
01:18:23.120but i don't want to include that because i sound like an asshole um but one of the things that's
01:18:28.700super consistent is this telepathy or mind speak for both dogman and bigfoot in fact i don't really0.58
01:18:36.040know i've listened to so many of these things i couldn't tell you if i've heard anywhere they
01:18:40.520where they talked with their mouth outside of these weird things like you know bigfoot hunters
01:18:44.120will say there's like a samurai chatter i don't know if you've ever heard that yeah i've heard
01:18:49.100the uh the tapes from uh i can't remember the guy's name but from the sierras i don't know
01:18:53.540what to make of that it's it's a fascinating sound but overwhelmingly what i hear is that
01:18:58.140they communicate via intrusive thought you know um to to the extent that people call it mind
01:19:04.480speaker or telepathy and um another thing that's very consistent is in the moments leading up to
01:19:11.760seeing these things everything will go unbelievably silent now some people will say all the noise in
01:19:17.580the forest stopped so all the the chattering of the bugs and the and you know the wildlife
01:19:22.040and the ambient noises from nearby roads or the wind and the trees and all this rustling
01:19:28.420stops because if the forest is anybody who spends time out there will tell you it's very it's very
01:19:32.960loud it's very loud anytime i've been camping or anything like that like it's there's a ton of
01:19:37.480ambient noise from all the critters um they will say it stops altogether to the point where it's
01:19:44.920dead silence some people will go even further and say it's as if things were muffled like being in
01:19:50.640some sort of a bubble where i listened to a story recently and a guy let off warning shots as
01:19:58.200something approached him and it was a nine millimeter i think he cracked off two rounds
01:20:02.380and he said after shooting he would always have a ringing in his ear didn't happen this time so
01:20:09.800that's like a real um profound example of the degree to which the sound is muffled i guess the
01:20:16.780question would be are you walking into their uh like their cube like you remember the meadow when
01:20:22.980we were talking yeah the meadows project yeah yeah yeah so those guys actively walked into a
01:20:28.460cube that they saw and then they all end up getting like cancer and dying it's craziness
01:20:33.060or uh is that cube being generated that that wherever they're at is that field being generated
01:20:38.820because of the entity that is there or do they exist within that's what i'm trying to say it's
01:20:44.080who it almost seems like some people will say like they have the ability to like transmute
01:20:48.780reality they change some fundamental aspect of reality like yeah either either you crossed into
01:20:54.340something or it looks the same but you're not really there which then starts to beg the question
01:20:59.160if somebody was outside of that field would they even see what you saw i wonder if that cathedral
01:21:04.120within that field right yeah that's you know what that would be an interesting thing to take like an
01:21:09.600emf meter or do some kind of gis scans to see if there is a magnetic anomaly or if there's some
01:21:17.640kind of um high emf uh spikes around where that happened that's yeah i mean these are but these
01:21:26.320are the things that have made this field of research super weird so you use that expression
01:21:31.140before the woo you know the woo footers or or whatever um it's kind of funny because like well
01:21:37.100from my cursory observation of bigfoot observers it seems like a lot there's a lot more woo footers
01:21:42.940or at least a lot more interdimensional bigfooters out there whereas before you know but when i was
01:21:48.460kind of looking at it like that 10 15 years ago that wasn't the case no no that's been a modern
01:21:54.700phenomenon i've been following it you know just out of interest for the past probably 25 years
01:22:00.540And I've noticed that there's definitely went from the flesh and blood camp to the more quantum or woo footer perspective, or at least a lot of those flesh and blood people are recognizing there might be a supernatural component to this.
01:22:18.380yeah yeah i i don't know where to put it it's it's become so chaotic that it opens the door for
01:22:26.620any number of potential realities as to its nature in fact i i think the same thing that
01:22:33.420we talked about with dogman where i do think it's highly likely that they're you know reverse
01:22:38.480engineering um because you hear these stories of people killing them and you also hear these stories
01:22:44.120of something coming to collect the body,
01:22:46.620whether it's like, you know, men in black,
01:23:02.200So of course, if they were able to take a body,
01:23:05.720you know, and get their hands on the genetic material,
01:23:09.760they would try to recreate it in some way, shape or form.
01:23:12.520So the same way you have that phenomenon likely taking place with Dogman, it's probably the same thing with Bigfoot.
01:23:19.080You know, I remember a story about a guy in an 18-wheeler shoots one of these Dogmen with a .45 through the eye.
01:23:29.920And I remember him saying, like, he distinctively got the impression that if he hadn't, by some stroke of miracle, hit this thing in the eye, it would not have died.
01:23:39.560it was just so big and and hardy um that it wouldn't have any he said he he heard it hit
01:23:47.420the ground he saw it tumbling in his rear view and he slammed his brakes and as he slammed his
01:23:52.300brakes he saw everything behind him get illuminated in red and so he's driving this 18-wheeler he he0.97
01:23:58.760turns around which is a pain in the ass you know it takes some time but he finally turns around0.93
01:24:03.020and he heads back that way and somebody is already there at the scene where the body was and he can0.98
01:24:08.520see the all of the gravel and dirt and and greenery that had been ripped up from this
01:24:15.480thing sliding off the road and into the tree line and um and he said hey did you guys see something
01:24:23.480back here uh i'm pretty sure something just you know came out of the woods and and they said oh
01:24:29.360a bear died and another bear came and dragged it off into the forest which is bizarre and they're0.85
01:24:39.780just sitting there watching that he goes what the fuck so he gets out of there in short order i don't
01:24:45.120know how long it was after that he's approached by a couple of you know feds and they told him0.99
01:24:50.500that uh they wanted to talk to him and the only clue they gave him was that he killed their asset
01:24:56.860is how they put it which you know then you're left to go why on earth would they tell you
01:25:01.140anything and maybe they would tell you something because nobody's going to believe you
01:25:04.160if they did say that thing to you and you went off and got on some fringe show somewhere and said
01:25:09.520you know that the feds told me i killed their asset but that's also not the first time i've
01:25:14.780heard something like that so they consider these things assets potentially so they are you know
01:25:20.740creating them in labs but maybe they do exist in the natural as well and the reason that i'm
01:25:26.780saying that is because everything with this is so messy it's so messy man there's there's ufos
01:25:34.180involved there's portals involved there's infrasound and and force fields uh that's silent
01:25:43.380and muffle things there's telepathy and you know you're still left to deal with what i see
01:25:51.720overwhelmingly is the running theory people are beginning to think you know a bigfoot is it is a
01:25:56.820nephilim that it does share some human dna but there's something else mixed in it that it's
01:26:01.400ancient and that it's highly intelligent canonite or esau or something yeah it's crazy yeah it gets
01:26:07.640wild and i just thought of tops nest next t-shirt design like the cbb cryptid breeding bureau
01:26:16.120oh nice by the way if that is a division that's got to be a fun job imagine a fun job you got to0.93
01:26:21.720jerk off the bigfoot well somebody's got to jerk off the bigfoot i don't know if that's everybody's0.94
01:26:25.320job uh so i have a panel coming up here in a few weeks that i've been asked to moderate0.89
01:26:33.080and the topic is going to be ce5 so i have a couple ce5 um practitioners that are going to
01:26:43.100be on the panel and i was wondering if you guys had any specific questions that you think i should
01:26:49.720ask them oh why why are you gay why are you gay no uh so some interesting questions that i think
01:26:57.040you would probably get um answers for if you're going to be into ce5 at all and you're going to0.88
01:27:04.320be a practitioner you've got a fascination with this sort of um anomalous modality occurrence
01:27:10.260i would ask them uh if they've had experiences throughout their life
01:27:16.540going back to childhood and you're going to get unanimous yeses across the board i would imagine
01:27:21.900um and the other thing is i don't know if they would draw the correlation between using the ce5
01:27:28.340app and the things that you know our experience are having happen in their life at the moment
01:27:34.000because if you've had a lifetime of strange experiences you probably wouldn't draw that
01:27:38.320correlation but are they now having an uptick an uptick experiences communications poltergeist
01:27:45.040activities sleep paralysis abduction experiences you name it it's a it's a debate you're saying
01:27:50.360no it's a it's a panel at a it's the cryptids and anomalies uh conference in in wisconsin here
01:27:58.600in may 6 i believe and i i've been asked to you know sit down with these guys and just kind of
01:28:06.040moderate the discussion so ask them questions get into the modalities um and one of my friends said
01:28:13.880grab it are you recording this uh it's it's possible yeah we could and he said that uh
01:28:22.120do you think that ce5 and seance anomalies are the same thing so is there some connective tissue
01:28:28.040from the old practices of seances from like the victorian era the spiritualist area
01:28:33.400um are those the same things as ce5 because i think there there is some connective tissue i
01:28:39.240I don't know if it's the exact same, but I think you'd probably see the same results
01:28:43.420in you guys saying, you know, if there are other paranormal phenomenon that have been
01:28:48.300occurring in your life since doing this, you might want to take heed.
01:28:54.240Well, I mean, yeah, everything that we've looked into is this, it's what Sam Tripoli
01:29:01.640So all of these entities and channeling and everything that took place in the past, even
01:29:08.000And Aleister Crowley, I forget in in what book it was, but he kind of mused on the idea that eventually, you know, these things would would take a much more scientific approach.
01:29:20.520And I think maybe what he was right over the money on is that they would take a more technological approach.
01:29:26.960And I think that that's exactly what that might be the evolution from the spiritual assailants to a modern technological framework.
01:29:35.960And I do believe that what they're experiencing is just – it's a frequency-based technology that's very similar to the binaural beats that the Gates program would use.
01:29:47.380You know, people – you can listen to the Gates tapes.
01:29:49.740Yeah, I'd say – I'd be less interested in, like, giving you questions to ask them because I'm sure that you kind of already know where to steer it.
01:29:57.360I'd be more interested in hearing just their testimony.
01:30:02.380You letting us know what they're saying,