Nephilim Death Squad - The White Lady w⧸ Jeff Finup

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00:00:57.520 Top Lobster Productions.

00:01:27.520 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad.

00:01:53.240 I am David Lee Corbeau, a.k.a. The Raven.

00:01:55.780 That is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation.

00:01:57.860 What's up, guys?

00:01:58.620 Before we get into today's guest, a little reminder,

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00:02:48.560 Go ahead and grab those at toplobso.com.

00:02:50.340 There you go.

00:02:50.700 Or you can grab a T-shirt if you don't want to come.

00:02:52.720 i could do that yeah why not both why not why not both buy a t-shirt wash it yeah show up we have a

00:02:58.240 really fun guest today when you show up show up clean also i don't want to smell you uh joining

00:03:03.200 us today is jeff of badgerland legends jeff thank you for joining us before we get into the

00:03:07.920 conversation uh tell everybody what it is you do and where they can find what it is you do

00:03:12.880 yeah i'm a writer and researcher out of wisconsin so i focus mainly on monsters myths legends

00:03:19.760 you know cryptids ufos ghosts hauntings and forgotten history and i got a great piece of

00:03:26.160 forgotten history for you guys today very cool yeah uh we were talking a little bit before the

00:03:32.020 show you said something interesting uh that i thought was kind of fun you said that before

00:03:36.360 or the day that um you booked a a raven appeared in your in your yard you said your wife called

00:03:43.720 you over and just before the show started we were having this discussion raven is actually

00:03:47.360 a decent sized bird man people think they see crows tops been seeing crows for a while he thinks

00:03:52.500 he's been seeing ravens i'm like no dude that's a big bird when you see it yeah it stands out in

00:03:57.700 fact i remember uh this video i was watching once of this woman she's got this raven and it's it's

00:04:02.900 it does a mimic and it can do like a human's voice or something to that effect and i just remember it

00:04:07.900 was horrifying i think it was like laughing or doing something that was supposed to be like fun

00:04:13.080 and cheerful and the whole caption was like if you heard this in the forest at night you would

00:04:18.100 almost certainly think you were being you know tracked by some malicious entity uh but i you

00:04:23.940 know just a fun story that you saw one right when you booked yeah it was crazy because um they're

00:04:29.240 native wisconsin but like you said crows very calmer ravens not so much so uh so notable in

00:04:35.820 fact that my wife called me over to the window to actually take a peek out of it and i'm just like

00:04:40.560 you're not gonna believe this but i just booked a show with a guy by the name of the raven and to

00:04:47.220 see that was just kind of a cute little synchronicity did she say why is a guy that's

00:04:51.880 exactly the next question was waiting i say all kinds of crazy stuff and she doesn't even have

00:04:56.780 time to uh digest it so she just moved on she's like oh cool it's profound to me yeah that's how

00:05:05.460 it goes with uh with my wife every time i'm driving in the morning or something i go well

00:05:09.860 look at the way they're spraying the skies it's like in a grid pattern and she yep my wife just

00:05:14.600 goes she pats me on the head she goes that's nice honey job i go no you don't understand by the time

00:05:18.420 it's noon it's gonna spread out and it's gonna block the sun and then noon comes around and i

00:05:22.620 go look see and she goes uh-huh it's actually this is how bad it's gotten uh my wife just had

00:05:27.960 a birthday so happy birthday and thank you for the gift uh but one of her co-workers got her a

00:05:32.000 pair of socks that said this is my conspiracy socks or something like that and i was like you're not

00:05:36.440 even really a conspiracy theory by injection i suppose well yeah but not like i was like are you

00:05:41.800 saying crazy stuff and she's like i don't think i am that's what so every once in a while a fan of

00:05:46.000 this show will somehow like interact with my wife on social media and they'll want to say something

00:05:51.680 conspiratorial to her and she'll go i just don't i don't know about these things and i go you kind 0.96

00:05:56.440 of do all you gotta do is just repeat any number of the crazy shit that i've been saying for 0.92

00:06:01.880 you know we've been married for a decade but i've been doing this to her since she was 17 we were in 0.97

00:06:07.600 high school um just blapping her up with terrifying information i'm just i'm just hey just repeat it

00:06:12.380 back they just want reciprocation it'll feel great like a raven it doesn't matter what they say just

00:06:16.560 say like they're poison in the water and they're gonna go yes that's what i'm talking about and

00:06:20.660 it's gonna be really nice gonna be a nice interaction it sounds like um we need to get

00:06:24.500 her on top's mom instagram feed yeah just come on to her honestly i don't know if anybody should

00:06:31.620 be on top's mom's instagram equal parts terrified equal parts trump hater if you're not built the

00:06:37.200 right way it's just black pill after black pill after black pill my mom's different

00:06:41.500 so um what are we what are we getting into today jeff you know i got a great little presentation

00:06:48.660 for you guys uh i'll pull it up real quick here are you going to share it um we can we can share

00:06:55.420 things to the screen yep okay let me know when when you're up there it is here here we go

00:07:01.200 okay okay so the white lady of champion is what i titled this interesting to that so our story

00:07:12.620 starts in a small belgium community today it's called champion wisconsin this is 1859 it's in

00:07:21.180 the wilds of wisconsin um if you look at the map here we got green bay as the closest city today

00:07:29.380 Now at the time, Green Bay, it's a bustling community. It's quickly being settled by immigrants specifically, like the Belgians, the Dutch, and the Germans. They're all making their way through Ellis Island, up through the St. Lawrence River, down the big lakes of Michigan, Superior, to Green Bay.

00:07:49.340 And they are looking to carve out an existence in the wilds of Wisconsin.

00:07:57.660 And now by 1859, Wisconsin, it's only been a state for about 10 years. 0.51

00:08:03.140 Settlers are still making their way in and they're looking for an opportunity to have their own land in their own communities in the Wild West.

00:08:12.000 now the story i'm going to tell you about today is it's centers around a small belgian community

00:08:18.680 like i said called champion today it's only about 15 miles from green bay but

00:08:23.560 you know today that's not very far but in those days we're talking about wagon roads we're talking

00:08:30.000 about indian trails and even at the time it was very rote so even if you drive there today to

00:08:36.820 visit the shrine that i'm going to tell you about it's all back roads county roads it's mostly farm

00:08:43.300 fields and villages so even today it's it's it's relatively unsettled and the middle of nowhere

00:08:52.180 so imagine the dutch back then it would have been mostly inaccessible during uh certain parts of

00:08:57.780 the winter right because it snows like crazy up there it snows in in your only way to get from

00:09:02.180 community communities by you know either by foot or by horse maybe maybe wagon depending on the

00:09:07.780 conditions of the road but yeah you're you're really on your own so the need for small tight

00:09:13.940 knit communities um mostly farming agrarian lifestyle is all that was available too but one

00:09:20.820 keynote about these people these belgians that made their way to wisconsin was they were primarily

00:09:27.300 catholic and devoutly catholic at that so we're talking early october 1859 uh the story centers

00:09:36.100 around a young belgian woman her name is adele bryce and she's walking in a forest near her home

00:09:42.900 near her family's farm now this is a route that she takes regularly especially during

00:09:47.940 harvest season it's the route taken from her family's farm to the grist mill it's october

00:09:54.100 like i said harvest season she's carrying a sack of wheat on her head to deliver to the gristmill 1.00

00:10:00.420 to be turned into flour so real hard scrabble kind of salt of the earth existence that 0.91

00:10:08.820 adele living with her family is carving out of the wisconsin countryside so she's walking her way

00:10:16.020 to the gristmill and she looks up ahead and she spots a lady in dazzling white and this lady

00:10:23.780 is standing between a maple and a hemlock tree. And I'm not sure why in all the texts it specifically

00:10:30.480 says a maple and a hemlock tree, but it's very specific. So Adele freezes in her tracks and

00:10:36.600 she's frightened by this unknown visitor along the path. Now, like we said, Adele lives in a small

00:10:43.520 Belgian community. She knows everybody in the surrounding community. So a stranger, especially

00:10:48.680 one not dressed in farm clothes or peasant clothes of the time would definitely be out of

00:10:55.600 the ordinary and a bit startling. So Adele frozen, she watches as this lady slowly disappears

00:11:06.060 and she leaves behind a cloud of white smoke and that slowly dissipates. She's a bit startled,

00:11:15.220 but she continues on her way to the mill, then eventually makes her way back home with seeing

00:11:20.300 nothing more. So the following Sunday, it's October 9th, 1859. She is getting ready for mass

00:11:30.340 and she gathers her sister and another neighbor lady to make an 11 mile hike from her farmstead

00:11:38.600 to church. You know, when we go to church these days, you know, you hop in your car,

00:11:42.700 you drive you're there five ten minutes right you know she had 11 mile hike to make just from her

00:11:49.260 farm to the catholic congregation that she was a member of um and this is where she had her second

00:11:57.080 encounter with the lady this time she was accompanied by her sister isabel and a neighbor

00:12:01.320 woman in that same grove of trees between that maple and that hemlock tree she sees the lady

00:12:09.100 again. But the other two women, they cannot see her. And they can tell that Adele is frightened.

00:12:17.000 And again, the lady appears to her and then dissolves into a white cloud. Well, they make

00:12:25.500 their way to mass and they have mass. And Adele sits with the priest, Father Verhof, for confession

00:12:35.000 that day and she says that you know i have something on my mind i encountered this white

00:12:41.400 lady so father verhoff he says to not fear that this is a heavenly messenger now he instructs

00:12:50.600 adele to ask god to ask this visitor if she encounters her again in god's name who it who

00:12:58.920 are you and what do you desire? So, as she's walking home that day, she goes by that same

00:13:07.180 grove of trees and she encounters that lady once again. Now, this lady is clothed in dazzling white 0.98

00:13:17.080 with a yellow sash around her waist. Her dress fell to her knees in graceful folds. She had a 1.00

00:13:23.880 crown of stars around her head and her long golden wavy hair fell loosely over her shoulders

00:13:29.920 and a heavenly light shone around her. Now, Adele remembered those words that she just received

00:13:37.720 from Father Verhof only hours earlier and she exclaims, in God's name, who are you and what do

00:13:44.740 you want from me? She received a reply. Now, David, I'm going to pull up this next slide and I want

00:13:52.260 you to be the one to read it are you ready can you read i don't know if i could read i could do my 0.87

00:13:58.660 best okay okay try all right read it oh what the fuck man kidding me read it david when the red 0.89

00:14:06.020 star of regulus uh what i'm sorry when the red star and regulus are on the horizon is it regulus 0.92

00:14:12.580 or regulus are on the horizon in front of the gaze of the sphinx before daylight a new knowledge will

00:14:19.300 come to humanity what year 1890 what 1890 okay david i'm i'm totally messing with you man 0.91

00:14:27.360 damn it that's a banger oh my god i had to get you with blood soap man that was good that was 0.97

00:14:40.840 really good because i of course the whole time you're saying white lady that's where my mind's 0.99

00:14:45.280 and i'm waiting for any uh connection i'm trying to count the stars on her head and all this other

00:14:49.920 uh you know to see if there's any any connection or or you know big dramatic correlation and then

00:14:55.440 all of a sudden i stepped in it uh that was very good good job jeff you're welcome i i had to tee

00:15:00.720 that one up for you dave he told me before too he said that the whole raven thing in his yard was

00:15:04.560 bullshit a yellow lobster walking across the floor he's gonna go this is all made up by the

00:15:12.160 end of it he's gonna be like i just made all of this oh my god all right please continue anyway 1.00

00:15:19.360 so the lady says i am the queen of heaven who prays for the conversion of sinners

00:15:25.520 and i wish you to do the same you received holy communion this morning and that is well but you

00:15:32.000 must do more make a general confession and offer communion for the conversion of sinners if they

00:15:39.040 do not convert and do penance my son will be obliged to punish them huh and that was the

00:15:47.440 first message that she received from the white lady i am the queen of heaven not far off yeah i 0.74

00:15:55.200 mean she's describing herself as the queen of heaven i believe that bledsoe's lady also i

00:15:59.200 i mean she's got many names but that's one of them yeah and we'll get into that definitely but

00:16:06.080 none of the others in her party could see this white lady now they asked who she was and adele 0.97

00:16:13.120 replied the lady says she is the queen of heaven the lady turned to look at her party and said

00:16:19.280 blessed are they that believe without seeing she asked del what are you doing here in idleness

00:16:26.480 with your companion or while your companions are working in the vineyard of my son weeping

00:16:33.920 adele asked what more can i do dear lady the lady replied gather the children in this wild country

00:16:41.360 and teach them what they should know for salvation adele replied but how shall i teach them who know

00:16:48.480 so little myself teach them the catechism how to sign themselves with the sign of the cross

00:16:54.960 and how to approach the sacraments that is what i wish you to do go and fear nothing i will help you

00:17:03.320 the lady raised her hands as though giving adele and her parting a party a blessing

00:17:11.460 and then she slowly vanished now that was the third and final apparition that adele witnessed

00:17:19.160 and it was on the same day as the second. So Adele with this message she ventured forth to

00:17:25.760 give her testimony. Now most including her family believed Adele sincerely while others believed

00:17:32.480 maybe she had a little psychological issue. Her father even built a log cabin or log chapel about

00:17:40.100 10 by 12 near the place of the apparition. Now Adele reflected on those words from the queen of

00:17:47.780 heaven. What are you doing here in your idleness while your companions are working in the vineyard

00:17:52.380 of my son? Now, what was little known at the time was that before Adele moved from Belgium to

00:18:00.120 Wisconsin, she had planned to enter the order and become a nun or a sister. Now, the name Champion,

00:18:08.600 Champion Wisconsin, was a town in Belgium where they had, I think, a monastery, or I'm not sure

00:18:17.660 the exact word, but where she had planned to become a nun. But instead, she rejected her

00:18:23.420 vocation, and she moved to Wisconsin. Now, after the apparition, she wasted no time. She took the

00:18:32.220 lady's advice and said, what are you doing here in your idleness? And her father built that chapel

00:18:37.260 immediately, and then they upgraded the chapel throughout the years and built a school. Now,

00:18:44.380 in 1869 she opened a boarding school which housed the children from the wilds and gave them a

00:18:50.400 proper catholic education the school was upgraded in 1885 and it's the one that's seen on this

00:18:57.760 slide here so uh going from just a grove of trees to a very modest chapel to a larger chapel with a

00:19:07.040 school uh was quite the accomplishment in an undertaking for a a peasant girl from belgium

00:19:14.120 that knew little or nothing now here's where it gets kind of crazy i mean that by the way that 0.97

00:19:21.300 does a lot to kind of you know it's like um the idea that people wouldn't die for something that's

00:19:27.040 not real right uh people aren't gonna yeah painstakingly build something in 1890 something

00:19:33.980 in the middle of you know a difficult a difficult terrain um in a time where these things aren't

00:19:40.980 easily accessible as far as the the labor and the materials to do such a thing and also you're a 0.97

00:19:45.980 peasant girl uh just layers of difficulty to pull off something like that i don't think a peasant

00:19:52.180 girl explains to her her priest that this happens he says test the spirits she comes back and he's

00:19:57.440 like yeah they said to build something and then then they do it uh kind of an odd story i don't

00:20:03.240 think you're you're moved to that degree by nothing you know so it seems like it'd be a pretty

00:20:08.900 far way to go for something that was a hoax or something that was just a delusion you know you

00:20:16.180 you meet people that are delusional they don't have a lot of drive they don't have a lot of

00:20:20.120 gumption they don't get a lot of stuff done for her to uh experience this encounter and then

00:20:25.320 actually build something that still stands to this day is quite remarkable so um it's about 12 years

00:20:34.120 to the day um of the original apparition or the the most profound apparition that she had

00:20:41.240 and it's october 8th so it's one day short now if i had to ask you guys if you could think of

00:20:48.920 the most destructive fire in u.s history what would you say uh wasn't there like the fires of

00:20:54.840 la well i mean the the last fires of la are the ones before those were wild um i'm thinking

00:20:59.880 historical um what the hell was the there's there's a giant one that great chicago fires

00:21:07.080 probably right so there is one that was more destructive and more widespread but the reason

00:21:14.520 that the greatest forest fire in u.s history got little play is because it happened exactly

00:21:21.400 the day before the great chicago fire and that was oh wow the peshtico fire and that

00:21:26.920 happened october 8 1871 one day short of that 12-year anniversary of the lady giving the

00:21:33.400 message to adele now it was the most destructive forest fire it claimed 1.2 million acres it was

00:21:40.200 also the deadliest wire fire wildfire in recorded history uh it's said to have taken between 1500

00:21:47.320 in 2500 lives unfortunately the census records weren't very extensive at the time and it's

00:21:55.720 really hard to quantify because the flames were so hot and so widespread that it rendered almost

00:22:02.440 everything it touched to ash there was even stories about a fire nato or like a cyclone

00:22:09.240 a fire coming out of the Pashtego fire that uh just scorched the land and where where does that

00:22:17.960 story sit with our story so if you look at a map of the devastation I have one on

00:22:23.800 the slide here you'll see that Adele's shrine was right in the middle of the path of devastation

00:22:31.320 so the area in black is the scope of the devastation if you look at the the tiny little

00:22:36.360 green dot is the shrine, which included the chapel and the schoolhouse. And it was, like I said,

00:22:41.740 right in the path of devastation. So many of the locals from the area, they fled to the chapel

00:22:48.440 for refuge. Now Adele and her companions, they prayed for Mary's protection. Now they lifted a

00:22:56.080 statue of Mary and proceeded around the grounds, praying the rosary, singing hymns to Jesus and

00:23:03.520 the Blessed Mother. And when that smoke cleared the next day, the sun rose. It was only the church

00:23:10.180 and the school that were spared from the devastation. The flames made their way to the

00:23:14.800 fence line that surrounded the church, but the grounds chapel and school untouched. So they

00:23:20.860 considered that to be a miracle. So there was a priest that was present in Pashtunco at the time,

00:23:29.580 and for some reason he had survived

00:23:33.440 and he wrote a book about the devastation

00:23:35.980 of the Pesach of Fire

00:23:36.620 and that's where we get a lot of our history from.

00:23:39.040 So he wrote on this,

00:23:40.680 after hours of horror and suspense,

00:23:42.480 the heaven sent relief in the form of a downpour.

00:23:45.140 The fervent prayers to the mother of God were heard.

00:23:48.340 Everything about them was destroyed.

00:23:50.640 Miles of desolation everywhere

00:23:52.340 but the convent school in Chamble

00:23:54.720 on the holy land consecrated to the Virgin Mary

00:23:58.220 shone like an emerald in the isle in a sea of ashes the fire had not entered the chapel grounds

00:24:05.720 father peter pernick wow man that's um i mean as far as things that don't

00:24:16.840 you know you're you're called to test the fruits of a spirit and so far despite my extreme

00:24:24.760 skepticism i can't look at anything that's been presented and go like that is um inherently

00:24:30.520 negative or inherently deceptive um so you know it's a fascinating story it leaves me wondering

00:24:39.480 you know if if mary can appear to people um is there something out there that is equally as

00:24:48.280 tenacious in its efforts to appear as mary yeah yeah that's that's a great question and you know

00:24:57.000 obviously you guys produce a show called straight bible and a lot of the basis for the our faith

00:25:04.280 is in what the bible actually says scripturally but we'll get into that um you know who the

00:25:10.200 identity of this white lady actually was yeah because before we go i also just want to remind

00:25:16.440 the audience as you're listening to this you know our only instances of being able to find

00:25:21.560 uh references to the queen of heaven once again is is in the book of jeremiah and it's it seems

00:25:27.640 to be negative it seems to be an entity that biblical scholars widely regard as is ishtar

00:25:33.400 well the story's not done yet no no i know i'm just saying keep that in mind as you're listening

00:25:37.080 because that's what i'm thinking of i'm just trying to let the audience know where my head

00:25:39.560 is like even hearing the term queen of heaven is like within the biblical context doesn't seem to

00:25:45.800 to be a great thing so this is uh this is fascinating and i i have a slide on that and

00:25:50.380 we'll unpack that and then also give you the catholics refutation to that okay so although

00:25:57.180 not widely publicized the story of adele's apparition spread far and wide it prompted

00:26:01.480 pilgrimages to the chapel and grounds and even reenactments of that pestico fire progression

00:26:07.500 were done to commemorate the miracle that happened on that day where the chapel was spared

00:26:14.240 Now, the apparition is recognized as Our Lady of Good Help, and in 2010, the Bishop of the

00:26:21.300 Diocese of Green Bay, after two years of review with Marian apparition experts, he put together

00:26:26.620 a panel of three apparition experts.

00:26:29.940 They issued a decree on the matter.

00:26:31.380 He approved, I declare with moral certainty and in accord with the norms of the church

00:26:36.980 that the event the events apparitions and locutions given to adele bryce in october of 1859

00:26:44.920 do exhibit the substance of supernatural character and i do hereby approve these apparitions

00:26:51.820 as worthy of belief although not obligatory by the christian faithful now this decree is the only

00:26:59.780 recognized marian apparition site in the united states and it's right there in wisconsin so what

00:27:06.500 he's saying there is like something definitively happened. You're not obligated to believe in this

00:27:09.980 thing, but I'm telling you that as far as I can see, it did happen. And I guess the reason you

00:27:14.900 add this caveat of you're not obliged to believe in this thing is because it's not a salvation

00:27:18.720 issue. I'm just telling you something happened here. Did the people around think that the

00:27:25.300 wildfire and the people that perished because of it was because of the apparition and the warning

00:27:30.440 that was given to um adele you know what i have never made that connection top that's uh extremely

00:27:37.540 insightful and i have never heard anybody say that yet maybe wasn't jesus coming to punish the

00:27:44.060 the disbelievers and that where they're spared i don't know but that's uh that's an interesting

00:27:48.800 point you make there it's an interesting overlap too like jesus is going to come back not with

00:27:52.720 water but with fire and then you know you have this uh small localized event that happened i'm

00:27:58.340 I just wonder if they put that together and kind of started to deify this even more, you know?

00:28:04.180 Yeah, that's crazy.

00:28:05.740 I will look deeper.

00:28:07.300 That is a great thread to pull on, but that's extremely insightful.

00:28:11.780 Good job, man.

00:28:12.740 Yeah, good job.

00:28:14.220 So I just kind of wanted to kind of compare and contrast that probably the three most famous are Guadalupe, Lawrence, and Fatima,

00:28:21.840 and just kind of how Mary came, delivered the message, and just kind of the nature of those.

00:28:30.920 But I'll move past that slide.

00:28:33.820 But so how do we square, like you said, David, the Queen of Heaven with our Christian faith?

00:28:39.900 Now, the Queen of Heaven is referenced in the book of Jeremiah, as you said,

00:28:43.620 specifically referring to making offers to a female deity.

00:28:48.000 Now, not much context is given within the passages, but biblical scholars, of which I am not one, I'm not a theologian, believe the title would be either Anana for the Mesopotamian god, Anat, also Mesopotamian, Isis, Egypt, I believe Jeremiah was written while in Egypt, Ishtar, Asheroth, which was the wife of Baal, or Asherah, who was the wife of El.

00:29:13.920 And now in the passages, it talks about them pouring out drinks or making offerings to this goddess figure, this queen of heaven.

00:29:24.840 Now, where the Catholics come down on this is, they say since Jeremiah was the Old Testament, it occurred about 600 BC, it predated Mary's life by six centuries, they cannot be referring to Mary, and they agree that this was likely a pagan deity that they're calling the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah.

00:29:46.180 um they but they think that the connection to the queen of heaven which they venerate as mary

00:29:52.820 is been taken out of context by that scripture now the fact that these pagan pagan groups believed

00:30:00.060 in other supreme deities as kings of heaven in their pantheon it opens the door to a queen of

00:30:08.380 heaven in that same pantheon so if it's a pagan pantheon that they're worshiping obviously there

00:30:15.200 would be a king of heaven and a queen of heaven and not necessarily the same as what the catholics

00:30:21.080 consider to be the catholic queen of heaven which would be the mother mary so when we put it into a

00:30:28.000 christian or more specifically catholic context with a god as king the king of heaven this would

00:30:34.420 make mary the queen so that's that's the catholic defense on that it's not too unreasonable i mean

00:30:41.700 And when you look at these things, there's a constant attempt to invert and and create a counterfeit version of, you know, the Immaculate Conception, a counterfeit version of Jesus, and obviously a counterfeit version of God when these different entities claim to be, you know, the highest God.

00:31:04.280 And so the idea that there wouldn't be a counterfeit queen of heaven if there was a real one isn't lost on me.

00:31:10.720 Yeah, absolutely. So, to add a little more context here, we have to turn to the New Testament, specifically Revelation 12. Now, the child in this passage is interpreted as Jesus. Waltz assumed that this woman clothed with a son is the earthly mother, the queen now in heaven.

00:31:32.420 So Revelation 12 reads, a great sign appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars.

00:31:41.920 You were counting the stars they did.

00:31:43.880 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

00:31:48.520 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all nations with an iron scepter.

00:31:54.160 So that kind of goes back to that imagery about Jesus punishing the disbelievers, right?

00:31:59.620 and then it says and her child was snatched up to god and and to his throne the woman now see

00:32:06.720 this is the part that we need um mr mabry's interpretation on is um revelations 12 6 where

00:32:16.380 the woman fled into the wilderness to place to a place prepared for her by god where she might be

00:32:22.340 taking care for 1260 days do you guys remember him touching on that specific i think this is uh

00:32:29.300 Some people think that that is going to be during the tribulation.

00:32:37.140 I guess it depends on where you fall, if there's a rapture and there's a mid-trip.

00:32:42.000 But they're talking about Israel going into the wilderness,

00:32:45.620 I think specifically into some sort of mountains to escape the persecution

00:32:50.160 so the remnant will get away for that amount of time

00:32:53.140 and God will keep them until the final return.

00:32:56.840 It's also fascinating that it's Revelation 12, 6, and it's 1,260 days.

00:33:02.620 Yeah, man, the Bible's crazy, dude.

00:33:04.080 Yeah, that's wild.

00:33:04.940 Yeah, and I've never noticed that.

00:33:07.820 So, you know, the belief that the Virgin Mary was taking body and soul into heaven at the end of an earthly life is a unique case in Christian theology.

00:33:20.300 Theology because it's not explicitly narrated in the Bible.

00:33:24.760 There's no scripture to support this.

00:33:26.840 Now, unlike the ascension of Jesus Christ, there's no chapter or verse that describes the events of Mary's eventual death taking place.

00:33:38.680 Now, Jesus' narrative of being taken into heaven is called the ascension.

00:33:44.200 Now, in Catholicism, the phenomenon of Mary is called the assumption.

00:33:50.020 Now, where the assumption difference is that Mary lived out her life on earth, died in her body, and then her body was assumed into heaven.

00:33:58.080 Now, the belief is, again, not supported by scripture. It's a remnant of early church tradition.

00:34:05.900 So that's where the Catholics get their mooring from as far as the divinity of Mary.

00:34:13.360 Now, their logic's derived from Luke 128, where Mary was hailed full of grace.

00:34:18.800 Now, her preservation and purity from the wages of sin, which corrupt the body in death, weren't present because she is full of grace.

00:34:29.200 She is sinless.

00:34:30.400 Therefore, her body was preserved and taken into heaven rather than decaying here on earth.

00:34:35.420 And even in some Catholic saints where they talk about, have you guys heard about the uncorrupted bodies of the saints?

00:34:44.360 No.

00:34:44.880 Where these saintly people, they die, but instead of undergoing the normal decay and death processes, their bodies are preserved as if they're alive, and they call them the uncorrupted saints.

00:35:01.680 And that is one of the signs that the Catholics point to when they're saying somebody was saintly, saying that their body was uncorrupted after their death.

00:35:10.980 now the eastern orthodox tradition of dormition talks of mary falling asleep they're traced to

00:35:18.420 the fourth and fifth century writings now the catholics they also remain purposely vague on

00:35:23.580 whether mary died the eastern orthodox have settled on the dormition that mary died a worldly

00:35:30.220 death was buried by the apostle apostles now i'm not eastern orthodox so this was news to me when

00:35:35.940 I dug it up and three days later her tomb was empty unlike Christ's crucifixion where he arose

00:35:41.780 the third day Mary was taken into heaven body and flesh from the tomb so that's do all eastern 0.91

00:35:48.560 orthodox believe this that's a good question I I'm not ingratiated in any eastern orthodox

00:35:55.740 orthodox circles so I'm not really sure who to to ask that question to but that's from from my

00:36:02.840 cursory understanding as that was but if somebody has a different interpretation on that or a

00:36:08.220 different tradition i'd love to hear that so that's uh really the summation of the miracle

00:36:15.160 at champion and the genesis of mary now you can visit the shrine today i actually got a chance to

00:36:25.060 last summer on our way back from a road trip um i took her teacher i had no idea that it

00:36:32.740 so close to the route and it's a well preserved chapel there they have a beautiful grounds there

00:36:39.300 they welcome visitors um i believe there was uh there was some kind of service in concession so

00:36:45.940 i didn't really get to explore too much i had the wife and the kids in the car so uh i couldn't spend

00:36:50.980 too much time there but i was able to grab a couple pamphlets and just be like i i gotta look

00:36:56.820 into this deeper and i'm glad i was able to put this together for you guys man it's interesting

00:37:02.900 because just in the story that you've told us i don't you know um it's news to me but what's been

00:37:09.700 presented here i don't see any any holes or anything that would raise alarm um which is

00:37:15.620 tricky because as this show has progressed this idea of the lady has become uh a bit of a talking

00:37:22.900 point or a sticking point and usually when i hear of this thing you know in the in the case of the

00:37:31.040 bledsoes which you know we briefly talked about before um presenting yourself and identifying

00:37:38.220 yourself as ishtar and isis and all these other things that's a pretty safe um

00:37:44.840 you know you're you're in good standing if you're skeptical of that entity i think and then to go

00:37:51.960 a step further and say that when this star alignment happens, this knowledge is going to

00:37:58.280 be exposed to humanity. We're going to wake up to this new knowledge. All of that sounds like

00:38:02.940 Gnostic New Age bullshit. The story that you've told doesn't have any of those earmarks. It doesn't 0.99

00:38:10.700 feel the same. And the Fatima story is a fascinating one because within that, there are

00:38:20.660 descriptives of this entity appearing initially as like a a silver disc i believe if you look into

00:38:28.280 it and that's something that recently i i dramatically undershot the amount of people

00:38:33.740 who had witnessed this thing because it said that it would return and since it would return people

00:38:39.720 were able to to know the day and and come and anticipate it and it did in fact return and

00:38:45.220 And what I thought was 7,000 people was actually 70,000 people witnessing this event.

00:38:52.780 And I'll tell you the truth.

00:38:54.820 I don't really remember what this thing said as far as knowledge that was imparted.

00:39:00.280 But even hearing this idea of it appearing as a silver disc, that all gives me pause.

00:39:07.700 And I'm not saying that there isn't maybe some argument to be made that some of these –

00:39:14.700 you see them in religious paintings you know ufos what you would describe as a ufo yeah insinuating

00:39:20.380 that they they've accompanied these religious um events or sightings but it's all very very muddy

00:39:28.780 and i understand the the what would you call it impersonating god impersonating mother mary

00:39:38.860 impersonating jesus we hear that quite a bit i've heard horrifying stories of people interacting

00:39:44.380 with entities that were impersonating jesus and so and then if you look back at all these pagan

00:39:50.940 uh pantheons there is usually some sort of you know mother father son story that seems to be

00:39:59.740 an uh you know an inversion or uh um a counterfeit so maybe when we're looking at this

00:40:10.060 whatever it is the lady uh isis ishtar maybe that is a direct counterfeit maybe these things are

00:40:19.200 separate maybe the story that you've told here is separate that's just where my head's at and um

00:40:23.260 yeah i'm glad i gave you guys something to uh to think on here and you know this is definitely

00:40:28.720 something to roll around with your other guests like um like ed i know his uh his anti-catholic

00:40:34.320 stance will actually come in uh really handy for this uh for this specific topic now um you know

00:40:43.360 full disclosure i was raised catholic and i say i gave it up for lent so i identify as a christian

00:40:49.900 uh first and foremost um and then you know i just try to be you know scripturally sound as possible

00:40:57.000 but when something like this comes up i always try to to square it and over the weekend i was

00:41:03.020 talking my brother-in-law is actually a lutheran minister and i asked him about this because they

00:41:09.480 don't do the mary veneration in the the lutheran church that was kind of a schismatic piece where

00:41:16.600 the lutherans kind of broke off and like jesus the supreme um whereas the catholics uh ardent

00:41:23.440 ardent mary veneration and uh i asked him i said what do you make of this and you know he he said

00:41:31.980 he'd have to really think on it and my mom who was raised catholic raised me catholic you know

00:41:38.440 she she said well you hear about all these marian apparitions and they always point to jesus and

00:41:44.260 they say you know honor my son or you know do this so it's like where does that square and i see one

00:41:51.320 of your commenters put in you know nine truths to tell a lie and i know that's kind of a a motto

00:41:56.620 of the the nds universe yes so where where is the lie and i know i can see david's gear spinning

00:42:03.740 there trying to figure out okay where where's the deception here if you know this this is mother

00:42:08.760 mary you know i think there's a there's safety in focusing on christ and i think that um you know to 0.89

00:42:18.800 to be a mortal fleshy retard that's on the earth for 80 to 90 years and to try to understand the 0.87

00:42:25.300 complexities and the deceptions of the spiritual realm it's a lofty endeavor and i think that 0.89

00:42:30.200 and it can lead you astray it can lead you astray and i think that your safest bet is knowing god

00:42:39.220 understanding god to the best of your abilities because when something tries to counterfeit god

00:42:45.760 you're going to be in safe standing if you know the real thing right like uh i think it was

00:42:50.420 walden jamie walden was talking about people that understand money really well

00:42:55.160 And they don't study the counterfeit. They study the real money so that when the counterfeit comes along, it doesn't matter how many times you try to counterfeit it, whatever different methodology you try, you're so familiar with the real thing, you're not going to fall for it.

00:43:07.120 So in that way, focusing on Jesus Christ and putting all your efforts there is going to make it so that you can't be deceived. So maybe that is why – I don't know. It just seems like there's not a tremendous amount of focus.

00:43:24.000 I mean, you're talking about within Catholicism and Christian Orthodoxy that there is some focus on on Mary.

00:43:31.920 And I know Protestants, non-denominal, whatever it is, they get made fun of because it's like there is this absence of deep knowledge of the history of things and the tradition of things.

00:43:45.620 But I see that even within Catholicism, you have – we talk about it all the time – hoodoo or voodoo or santeria that is masking itself as the saints.

00:43:57.320 They're hiding their gods behind the visage of the Catholic saints.

00:44:01.480 And so in some way, if you strip all of the other apparatus away and you live a life where you're focusing on, you know, going forth and sinning no more, a life of repentance and of following Christ and focusing solely on Jesus Christ, I can see that, you know, in some ways we call it grandma maxing on the show.

00:44:21.300 And that's usually within the supernatural context of not being deceived by aliens.

00:44:25.400 But in the same way, if you're just only focusing on Christ, you're not going to fall for this other thing that's counterfeiting itself as Mary.

00:44:33.540 In fact, I don't think that, you know, let's say hypothetically Mother Mary is truly the queen of heaven.

00:44:38.720 I don't think she's going to be bummed out when you're like, sorry, I'm focusing on Jesus.

00:44:43.580 Like, I don't know what's going on with you, lady, because, you know, the waters are so muddied.

00:44:48.420 um if everything is going to be counterfeited at some point it almost makes sense to take a little

00:44:55.740 bit more of a reductive and narrow view you know calling christianity the narrow path um jesus

00:45:02.540 christ is the way to the father i think you probably would be because it gets crazy you

00:45:08.940 step outside of it and you start to lean on your own understanding of things and well but maybe

00:45:14.000 there is a queen of heaven. I'd say probably not. The way I see it is it's a great story. And if

00:45:21.520 legitimate, if true, you can see the pathways to which why an entity would want to do this and

00:45:31.180 maybe even have benevolent qualities to it and tell you the truth, or at least do these things

00:45:36.620 that are the truth. Because in the end, what does this lead to? Like, what have we gotten here

00:45:40.900 Besides, you know, we saved the chapel from a huge fire, which is like, how did that start?

00:45:46.240 But that's a question that we can never know.

00:45:49.060 In the end, what we have here is veracity to the deification of Mary.

00:45:55.520 That's an interesting point.

00:45:57.120 Yeah, this is what we're all pointing back at, what the Catholic Church is pointing back at.

00:46:02.820 And I just don't, I'm not Catholic, so I don't subscribe to that at all.

00:46:06.480 Well, Mary was a human woman who God used for a purpose, and I think she was great.

00:46:13.700 Bye, David.

00:46:14.480 Sorry, I got to go bad.

00:46:16.100 Yeah, I think she was great, but in the end, she was a human being that was a vessel that was for God's choosing, for what he needed.

00:46:25.300 I don't know where we get she's the queen of heaven.

00:46:28.680 I don't know where we get deification.

00:46:30.200 I don't know where we get she has a sanctified body.

00:46:33.100 She never died like she's Elijah or Moses.

00:46:35.180 it's just it's sort of strange and then when you know when you look at the other deceptions about

00:46:41.620 mary that go hand in hand i'm kind of like yeah this stuff goes off the rails real quick

00:46:45.380 and this one here just kind of it just solidified people's belief in it so that i'm looking at it as

00:46:53.260 a little bit of an op like it doesn't always have to be on its face evil or do a bad thing to take

00:46:57.980 people off the off the path even even even though he she pointed to to jesus as as the redeemer

00:47:05.360 yeah yeah listen we have we got guys uh guys that we've interviewed and i still talk to

00:47:13.020 i like them but he's talking to certain entities that tell him to go to church they told him to

00:47:19.620 get baptized they told him to do these things and he's he's in shape and all this stuff he's

00:47:24.740 experiencing uh paranormal activity every single day you know and his life is better but he also

00:47:30.920 has this other side that like he's so he's allowed in an entity and there are good things happening

00:47:36.800 to him but there are also other things that are unexplainable happening to him and i'm like hey

00:47:42.180 i think these two are related they're playing a little you know right hand path left hand path

00:47:47.620 with you and you think that they're different but i don't think so i think you invited in one thing

00:47:52.540 and now the floodgates are open. And when I look, I know it's, it's not a good, it's not a good way

00:47:57.200 to look at the supernatural either, because it could, it could make me like take a stick and

00:48:01.780 hit everything. You know, if an angel came and I'd be like, it'll get out of here. Like, I don't

00:48:05.600 know, but that's where I'm at with the spirit realm. Like any, anything that comes from the

00:48:09.900 spirit realm, I'm super suspicious because more than likely it's going to be a deception. You

00:48:14.940 know, very rarely do you have like a actual mess. How many, how many Elijahs were there to, uh, 0.80

00:48:20.100 prophets of Baal, right? One, one Elijah and then 400 prophets of Baal. And it's probably

00:48:27.100 way more exaggerated than that at this point. So, but I don't, yeah, I don't know. I'm just,

00:48:31.780 I'm super skeptical of, of that. Heard. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So one other just kind of

00:48:41.340 supernatural testimony just to give you guys as a bonus. So, like I said, my mom, devout Catholic

00:48:48.480 and you know one thing that i really had a problem with the catholic churches they don't really teach

00:48:55.040 the scripture you know they go through like one passage and then the priest unpacks it you know

00:49:00.700 during his homily or sermon you know for 15 or 20 minutes and and there's not there's not a real

00:49:07.700 focus on the actual gospel of the of the lord and that's kind of where i kind of butted heads with

00:49:14.660 my mom i'm like we're not even really talking about the bible or the word we're we're going

00:49:19.660 through traditions of the catholic and you know maybe that works for some people but have you

00:49:24.480 guys ever heard of a noveno a noveno a novena yeah no i've never heard of that so it is a

00:49:32.760 specific prayer that you say to a saint so when my mom i have a uh a sister that's about two years

00:49:41.520 older than me. And when my mom was having a hard time conceiving, she had heard about this

00:49:47.280 Novena to St. Therese, and it's called Novena of the Rose. And she had found a prayer card

00:49:55.760 and she prayed it. And I believe you're supposed to pray it for something like seven days.

00:50:01.900 And then on that seventh day, after you're done, someone will bring you a rose. So she went through

00:50:10.040 and she she didn't have a lot of faith in this surprisingly but she went through and she did

00:50:17.200 the due diligence she prayed she prayed the prayer of saint therese and she's like well

00:50:23.680 roses are out of out of season you know i don't think my husband my my dad is going to bring me

00:50:30.180 a rose so she was kind of like beside herself like you know i really really want to be a mother

00:50:37.040 and uh she she said a prayer and then she was uh visiting with one of the neighbor ladies

00:50:44.800 at the time and she said wait debbie i have something for you just wait right there and

00:50:50.960 she walked her house and she brought out one last rose and she said last rose on the bush

00:50:57.360 and when i trimmed it i thought of you and gave my mom this rose and shortly thereafter she got

00:51:03.600 pregnant with my sister so it was kind of a profound testimony for her she loves telling

00:51:09.280 that story so i was just thought that was uh you know we talked about the veneration of the saints

00:51:15.280 but like who did she actually pray to right you know my my sister she's a lovely woman uh mother

00:51:22.960 for uh happily married she's married to a lutheran minister not catholic no longer catholic so it's

00:51:30.400 like what what was the mechanism behind that um why did she receive a rose it's one thing to like

00:51:38.160 pray something and then something happens and then you can just be like okay but to have that symbol

00:51:43.840 of the rose coming to her when it's so out of the ordinary when when have you guys well obviously

00:51:49.680 dudes probably don't get roses but you know just any random girl just get a random rose

00:51:54.880 from from somebody that's not really a best friend somebody with no knowledge of what you're doing

00:52:01.440 to give that to you it's it's interesting i mean i was just looking up here like um

00:52:07.040 you know you have this hail mary prayer and um it's an interesting thing because this is obviously

00:52:14.600 prevalent in catholicism but if you go through the bible and how we're directed to pray you know

00:52:23.700 you pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus, empowered by the Holy Spirit.

00:52:30.480 These are these three things.

00:52:33.280 Never, and just, I'm going to think about the popularity of the Hail Mary prayer,

00:52:38.700 even if you aren't a religious person, like I was aware of it throughout my childhood.

00:52:44.900 But there's nowhere in the Bible that we're instructed to pray to or for Mother Mary.

00:52:54.740 And if you look at the Mother Mary prayer, it says, you know, Hail Mary, full of grace, all these things.

00:53:03.580 And then it goes on to say, Hail Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, which is just, you know, like I said.

00:53:13.100 It's an interesting name, and especially what it's correlated to, like, you know, a football play, a Hail Mary would be, you're running out of time, this is your absolute last shot, but there's, like, a lot of risk to this as well.

00:53:24.500 There's, like, a space movie right now out about an alien.

00:53:27.520 Project Hail Mary, yeah.

00:53:28.480 Project Hail Mary, and it's all about an alien.

00:53:30.780 Yeah, well, I mean, you know, in the football play, it's, like, not only is it dangerous because you're throwing a football way into the air, into the end zone, and you have pretty much all the defenders around you, so, like, it's ripe for interception.

00:53:43.100 so you could get, you know, they could actually score a touchdown.

00:53:46.360 It's like a last-ditch effort.

00:53:47.520 Yeah, it's a last-ditch effort, but it also puts your players at risk.

00:53:50.500 It's like as a coach or as like in baseball there are plays like this as well,

00:53:55.840 I wouldn't necessarily do, like I wouldn't have my guy steal home from third base

00:54:02.760 because that is a very dangerous play if there's a mix-up in the signs,

00:54:06.160 but it's one of those things that you do when you're completely desperate.

00:54:09.240 You're going to lose anyway. 0.96

00:54:10.060 Yeah, but somebody fucks up. Your guy could catch a baseball bat to the teeth or like a number of things can happen there. So like you're putting people at extreme risk and maybe it'll work. It's a Hail Mary, but like the odds are super low. 0.79

00:54:23.700 It's just interesting, man, because once again, praying to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit, and that prayer, the only mention of Jesus or God isn't praying.

00:54:40.620 You're not even praying to Mary in the name of Jesus.

00:54:43.360 There's a reference of the fruit of the womb of Mary, which is Jesus, and there's a reference to God, but it's specifically Mary being the mother of God.

00:54:52.480 but but everything that we've learned is like this is the way when jesus christ says the the

00:54:59.140 only way to the father is through the son nobody comes to the father but through the son right

00:55:04.860 so in my mind i'm going okay i'm praying to god the father in the name of jesus christ

00:55:10.560 um all of that is absent in this prayer that is like super popular super popular super well known

00:55:19.320 There's like a Western cultural significance to a degree.

00:55:22.940 I mean, I know it exceeds the West.

00:55:24.900 The main part of the rosary is the Hail Marys.

00:55:29.140 Yeah.

00:55:29.740 That's really interesting.

00:55:31.800 I just don't see that as being the main modality that we're instructed.

00:55:38.140 You know, even like, you know, baptisms. 1.00

00:55:40.040 I wouldn't even go to a church with a female pastor. 1.00

00:55:42.780 I'm just. 1.00

00:55:43.320 Right. 0.99

00:55:44.060 I'm fucking praying to Mary. 1.00

00:55:46.620 Maybe I'm going to hell. 0.99

00:55:47.600 but i don't know i i don't know if i don't think it's a going to hell thing because i don't think

00:55:50.960 mary no if i'm wrong okay fine well i don't think even if you were wrong it's like mary's never

00:55:56.240 going to be upset that you were like focusing on the sun you know what i mean like nobody's

00:56:01.620 going to be upset about that i don't think the spiritual realm is like this guy's just not

00:56:04.880 getting it he's focusing on the sun you know what i mean like it seems like that is the point

00:56:09.180 um but it's just interesting yeah definitely it's a fascinating story too that it does take place in

00:56:16.440 in america like that's like one of the because i don't know people people forget how how crazy

00:56:23.120 america is how esoteric it is i mean joseph smith met smith met that the angel maroney here in

00:56:29.280 america there's a lot of crazy thing happened that that happened here you said this fire happened

00:56:33.580 the day before the chicago fires is the day yeah it was the day before yeah and the chicago fires

00:56:38.220 are super suspicious like there's all kinds of conspiracies about them so there's one um fringe

00:56:44.440 conspiracy that i really like and it's called biela's comet and it was a comment that they

00:56:50.460 believe may have uh slagged off and created firestorms and because there was that specific

00:56:58.820 fire in peshtigo there was another one just across uh lake michigan in northern michigan as well as

00:57:07.640 the great chicago fire all within like 48 hours like most devastating so some people think this

00:57:15.000 was like an atmospheric anomaly that brought that i think it's a b-i-e-l-a apostrophe s

00:57:23.400 that's interesting yeah so that's that's kind of one of those fringe ones i've heard uh randall

00:57:28.820 carlson bring that one up and like okay i gotta look into this deeper and there was even stories

00:57:34.300 uh there was lore of a fire demon being spotted in the peshtigo fire and that he he went around

00:57:42.380 starting fire so it's a is this just a personification of the fire or was there

00:57:48.920 something demonic involved that brought great casualty and loss of pretty much everything

00:57:57.440 around that uh that little uh finger of wisconsin yeah and it's it also still doesn't adequately

00:58:04.460 explain why that cathedral is untouched yeah i mean that is wild i mean i that's what i'm saying

00:58:09.920 i don't doubt that something supernatural happened there yeah and i think it is interesting because

00:58:13.960 it's like if you're looking at it you're testing the fruits of this thing what are we left with

00:58:18.520 in in the way of fruits well this thing was protected so that's interesting um but it is

00:58:25.960 also interesting what you drew attention to top which is it further deifies mary yeah like that's

00:58:34.080 one of the fruits one of the the major fruits that are left behind from this thing and if there if

00:58:40.880 the deification is justified then that's what it is but if the deification is not justified then

00:58:46.860 that's also like well that's interesting then that you're left with that so it man it's uh it

00:58:52.380 all depends on where you're coming from for for me i think it's unjustified but obviously for the

00:58:56.380 for the catholics who already hold this presupposition vindication vindication so it

00:59:01.360 only furthers their beliefs so it's like yeah that you don't need a you don't need another

00:59:04.780 op on top of this like that's if it is an op that's the op well i guess then you know if you

00:59:10.660 were to explore that a little bit further it's like well what is the the upside the upside is

00:59:16.440 it almost doesn't exist because at the end of the day it's still the same thing pick up your cross

00:59:21.520 follow jesus christ jesus enter through the narrow gate yeah so it's this like nothing has

00:59:28.560 has changed there and it's still almost in some ways is a stumbling block and a distraction

00:59:35.940 well it's like i say about like with sin in general and uh right i don't think god is as

00:59:41.760 i don't think god is as strict with us i well obviously we have we're able to forgive for

00:59:47.360 ask for forgiveness for our sins. But God also probably understands that we are going to miss,

00:59:52.720 like our aim is not going to be perfect. But yeah, if you're off by just a little bit, that's

00:59:56.860 really, that's, that's going to be sin. And then extrapolate that years down the line further and

01:00:01.840 further on. And you'll be, you'll be off the target by a mile. But Jeff, I kind of wanted to,

01:00:08.980 great story. Love that. But you're also a paranormal researcher, like a cryptid researcher

01:00:15.480 in wisconsin can can you tell us a little bit about what's going on there what have you seen

01:00:20.600 what have you studied have you seen anything irl what's what's your story you know i i'm always on

01:00:26.760 the lookout but uh you know i'm i would look at myself more as like a folklorist collecting all

01:00:34.040 of this you know hidden history or strange stuff from wisconsin and you know just digging i've been

01:00:39.880 been doing this probably you know just in my head for the last 20 years but officially with badger

01:00:45.580 land legends for about six now um and i know we we one of the themes is um top lobsters dog man

01:00:53.600 i love that one but um the dog man mythos may have started in wisconsin huh so there was a lady

01:01:02.580 in 1993 named Linda Godfrey she lived in southeastern Wisconsin and she heard about all of

01:01:11.440 these upright dog sightings and she wasn't really she wasn't sure what to make of them so she went

01:01:18.780 to a an animal control officer in Walworth County a small county pretty rural a lot of farm fields

01:01:26.640 and she knocked on his door and said hey do you know anything about these uh these upright walking

01:01:33.780 canines that people are seeing and he pulled out a manila folder and on that manila folder

01:01:40.120 was werewolf so he had known about these things and she started doing some research and one of

01:01:47.740 the interesting of the most interesting stories that she shared in her book the beast of bray road

01:01:52.400 So Bray Road being the road that these entities or entity was seen on, was Bray Road.

01:02:00.920 So they called it the Beast of Bray Road.

01:02:02.480 And it's great alliteration, great marketing.

01:02:05.000 And there's been films.

01:02:06.760 There's been a documentary by Small Town Monsters and then obviously Linda Godfrey's book.

01:02:12.680 But one of the stories that she shares in there is from the 1930s.

01:02:17.240 It is at a Catholic convent in Jefferson, Wisconsin.

01:02:20.360 And so it's not terribly far from the epicenter of the Bray Road phenomenon today.

01:02:26.940 And it tells of a night's watchman at this Catholic convent, a guy by the name of Shackleman.

01:02:35.140 Now, he's policing the grounds, and there are Indian mounts. 0.91

01:02:38.940 Now, Wisconsin is the epicenter of effigy mount culture for the Indians. 1.00

01:02:45.320 So we, being where I am in central Wisconsin, in Madison specifically, there are tons of 1.00

01:02:51.700 mounds everywhere.

01:02:53.040 So having this mound on this property, specifically a burial mound, it's not a huge surprise.

01:02:59.700 But he's patrolling the grounds one night when he sees something.

01:03:04.220 He gets closer and he sees that there is this figure on top of one of these Indian mounds

01:03:10.540 and it's scratching at the top of the mount almost like it's trying to get in to the mount 0.86

01:03:15.880 so he approaches it and it skitters off now if you see something like that in the middle of the

01:03:24.020 night on a catholic convent you've got to be i don't know scared the shit out of me but he heads

01:03:29.460 back that same night armed with nothing more than a heavy flashlight i was going to say you got to

01:03:36.400 be armed if you're going to approach this thing so he sees it again and he walks up to it and

01:03:42.980 instead of slinking off it rears up at him and looks him straight in the eyes and then it utters

01:03:50.900 something low and mean now it said gadara is how it was interpreted and the only thing that

01:04:01.240 Shackleman was to do was to pray to God to save him. And he said a prayer in his head and the

01:04:08.500 thing slinked off. Now, not sure if the name of Jesus was uttered because we know about that

01:04:14.060 defense of the dark arts with Jesus's name, but specifically he prayed for God to save him.

01:04:20.220 And then it backed down and slunk off, never to be seen again. So some people think that was

01:04:25.640 the first sighting of the Wisconsin werewolf or the Wisconsin dogman. Now, the interesting thing

01:04:32.460 that Linda, I believe she was Christian, she made in the book was gadara, sounds a lot like

01:04:39.280 gadara, which is the scene of the gathering demoniac outlined in the Bible where Jesus

01:04:48.260 cast the legion into the swines

01:04:53.260 that drown themselves in the sea.

01:04:56.340 So was that a link to that biblical story?

01:04:59.240 That was one of the threads that she kind of proposed.

01:05:02.420 I'm not sure if it was just a guttural sound

01:05:05.480 or if it actually said gadara,

01:05:07.680 but that is something to chew on.

01:05:10.600 And being on a Catholic convent in Indian mounds,

01:05:15.500 in burial mounds, 0.88

01:05:16.420 Right. We have a dog like creature that's a guardian of the underworld in Egyptian mythology known as the Anubis or the Anubis. And that is a jackal headed entity, I believe. Right. That is guards the passage to the underworld. So was this thing trying to go back for whence it came? I don't know, but it is a compelling story.

01:05:41.720 that's interesting because i wonder if they're like i've heard enough stories about these things

01:05:46.080 and and let's say there is like a function or a purpose to them right like they do have this

01:05:49.740 guarding the underworld kind of a situation and i've heard a couple of stories of them being

01:05:55.740 near like graveyards and things like that um but so much of what i hear makes me suspect that

01:06:03.840 maybe at some point one was killed because i do think you could kill them and it seems like almost

01:06:12.840 like uh the military got their hands on them and like reverse engineered them because the other

01:06:16.980 place that they seem to show up quite a bit is military bases if you can genetically for lack

01:06:25.780 of a better term reverse engineer one of these things and you create one you know that's some

01:06:32.560 sort of um lab created dog man which i know sounds crazy but i've heard so much about these things

01:06:40.180 that it almost seems feasible if you could would you get rid of its nature in other words if you

01:06:48.280 created a thing in a lab but that thing had a purpose and in nature it did exist and its purpose

01:06:56.440 was related to you know the underworld the dead um and you created it in a lab would you then

01:07:04.760 effectively have created a thing that's just lost like you release this thing out into the world

01:07:10.200 and it's just trying to figure out how do i go about my job maybe maybe a better way to frame

01:07:16.200 that is if you create in a lab entirely isolated a beagle or a bloodhound i don't think you

01:07:25.520 eliminate its desire to track and hunt it's like a beagle or bloodhound is a dog that's uh

01:07:31.960 selectively bred it's a good hunting partner and it's got this thing that it inherently wants to do

01:07:39.860 it's actually even more fascinating when you when you frame it that way because we're dealing with

01:07:44.040 something that seems to be part canid and so does it have this instinctual drive

01:07:49.620 and does that drive have something to do with the underworld you know i've heard a lot of

01:07:55.660 these stories too where these things will uh be in and around cave entrances you know that lead

01:08:05.220 to like these tunnel systems and i've listened to shamans actually talk about shamans that have been

01:08:11.220 um what would be a good way to put it like reformed reform shamans who realize the thing

01:08:19.540 that they were practicing was a negative spiritual practice and they came to christ but i've heard

01:08:26.320 them talk about how uh when they uh they practice skin walking now skin walking is a thing that

01:08:35.420 apparently has layers to it it can happen in a way where an individual will perceive what they

01:08:41.420 think is an animal but there's some sort of an illusion and it's actually a man but it's perceived

01:08:46.580 as an animal and there's other versions where people are in their homes doing rituals and

01:08:53.120 almost remote controlling an animal somewhere out in the world now in those stories i've heard them

01:08:58.060 say yeah we access the underworld the way that we access the underworld is there is a physical

01:09:03.920 tunnel or cave in reality and i think this is kind of seen in that in that show dark

01:09:09.920 where you go into a physical cave but something spiritual happens in the cave

01:09:14.560 um so these things these dogmen are often in and around these cave systems

01:09:22.500 maybe just like a bloodhound has a natural inclination to to track and hunt maybe this

01:09:28.980 thing has a natural inclination was built for this purpose and when they're building them in

01:09:33.800 these labs maybe some of them get out and they're just lost you know so you come across a thing

01:09:39.460 that's that's uttering a word a word for like the underworld effectively right that's what

01:09:44.420 gadara more or less is and maybe maybe it's trying to figure that out maybe it's like a

01:09:51.220 bloodhound made in a lab that when it gets out it's still trying to figure out like i'm supposed

01:09:56.280 to be tracking and hunting and this thing's like i'm supposed to be guiding or or guarding or yeah 0.83

01:10:01.680 yeah wild so the um apparently the beast of railroad is still active today there's a gentleman

01:10:10.340 that lives on the property now he often in the fall he'll do like guided hay rides and show

01:10:18.160 around his field but he had set up the uh the ir trap cams the uh the game cameras trail cameras

01:10:24.580 and he got some very bizarre results on those so what he would often do is when he found a

01:10:34.100 a roadkill carcass of a deer he would drag it onto his property and put a trail cam over it

01:10:41.720 and you would see his numbered pictures in progression with the deer carcass in front of

01:10:49.400 the camera the next shot is like a cloud of smoke and then the shot after that all in numbered

01:10:57.860 sequence um and this guy lee hample he's not he's he's he's an older gentleman he's not um

01:11:05.780 as technologically advanced as this and this was years before ai so you would see the next shot

01:11:12.940 and the carcass is gone so something was taking these carcasses um and then one of the most

01:11:18.780 intriguing pictures that he showed me was just something like tracks through a field and you'd

01:11:27.860 see like two tracks through a snow covered field and then nothing like something sucked whatever

01:11:36.380 was making those tracks up into oblivion and he also caught a photo of an orb over his property

01:11:44.460 and it almost looks like the outline of a wolf inside the orb so this guy's got something crazy

01:11:50.560 going on on this property on just off of bray road it's bowers road today but i'm not sure what

01:11:57.920 to make of it i know other people i've talked to think that they feel it's very ancient like maybe

01:12:03.820 some of the indigenous tribes like you said uh david about the um the the shape the um skinwalkers

01:12:11.840 right yeah so it's it's definitely intriguing there's so much media made on it i would

01:12:19.340 if somebody's interested in that the small town monsters show uh beast of bray road take a look

01:12:25.740 on that it was for freon prime it's really gives a good background on the phenomenon and who linda

01:12:32.840 was and just the genesis of these sightings and what we think of them today it's a weird phenomenon

01:12:40.040 on because just like bigfoot it starts to the more you look at it the the less uh physical and

01:12:45.360 the more sort of like metaphysical it becomes you know you have stories of people i think um

01:12:49.760 there's a famous one from the confessionals where a guy sees it in his dreams he has this dream of

01:12:57.220 this dog man attacking his family and he intercedes and you know gets scratched in the morning he

01:13:04.080 wakes up and he's got markings on his body and as if that's not strange enough after that i don't

01:13:11.140 know if it's a few weeks few months whatever he's in the woods with his son and they're hunting

01:13:16.200 or something like that but they see this thing so this guy is forced to deal with the idea that

01:13:23.380 a thing he saw in his dreams somehow later on he sees in his real life and then you have this weird

01:13:30.240 symbiotic relationship i know this is this might be a little bit new to some of the listeners uh

01:13:34.740 because we don't often get an opportunity to talk about cryptids but this is something that i'm

01:13:39.040 fascinated with and and this is mostly what i absorb actually is this sort of content so i'm

01:13:44.880 very familiar with these stories and you know you have to kind of take them at at face value in the

01:13:51.520 sense that they're their stories it's not confirmable there's not a tremendous amount of

01:13:55.600 evidence left behind after these encounters but people will see them in what is described as

01:14:01.260 almost working in tandem with bigfoot to the extent that i know that sounds wild i know i've

01:14:07.640 heard you say this before and you said it's like almost like bigfoot's attack dog and the funny

01:14:12.520 funny thing is that where railroad is it's by a section of designated wilderness called um the

01:14:19.620 Kettle Moraine State Forest. And there are other people in that region that specifically track

01:14:26.740 Bigfoot and have had encounters with a Bigfoot-like creature right along the same roaming

01:14:33.360 range as the Wisconsin Dogman. So there might be a tie in there. Yeah, there's a lot of

01:14:40.520 correlation between those two creatures, entities, I don't know what you would call them. And I've

01:14:46.140 even heard consistencies in the way that they're described right because that's all you have is you

01:14:50.860 have like patterns that emerge from one person's story to another person's story and you try to

01:14:55.020 see if there's any overlap and eventually there's themes and patterns that are derived and one of

01:15:00.880 them is that Bigfoot has this um intelligence about it and it is scary it's sentient it like

01:15:12.920 the the feeling associated with bigfoot is typically pretty consistent and so is the one

01:15:19.540 with dogman but with dogman it's evil it's demonic like the feeling that people get and

01:15:27.040 there's even obviously like we said if they work in tandem then there's people that have experienced

01:15:30.380 both and in those stories they'll delineate they'll go bigfoot feels one way and it is

01:15:36.940 intimidating it is scary but it is also intelligent and it doesn't feel like dog man dog man feels

01:15:43.660 demonic and evil and just wants to kill like an instinctual is what they yeah yeah and then there

01:15:49.780 seems to be some level of bigfoot you know kind of calling it back not yet can't do a thing yet 0.52

01:15:57.840 can't can't kill a man yet and that's also the thing that they say is overwhelmingly you feel

01:16:02.220 like these things could dismember you with ease but both of them when i said before that they seem

01:16:07.960 to go into the metaphysical they seem to manifest sometimes out of nothing disappear into nothing

01:16:15.840 they're often accompanied accompanied by orbs strange lights in the sky what people have

01:16:21.720 described as as ufos so where previously people used to speculate as bigfoot you know uh gigantopithecus

01:16:29.380 some missing branch of humanity that went into a strange direction or is it the missing link used

01:16:36.080 to be the terminology associated with it. All of Bigfoot research went to this really weird place

01:16:43.060 where a lot of people didn't follow. A lot of people just dropped off because it went

01:16:46.760 so strange. The quantum Bigfoot is what they call it now. So there's a really good book out there

01:16:52.460 by two of my favorite people in the field. It's called Where the Footprints End. It's by Timothy

01:16:57.540 Renner and Joshua Cutchin uh and both of those guys kind of go that route and they say well

01:17:03.740 where the footprint prints ends it's like okay at the end of those footprints there's no Bigfoot

01:17:09.380 where did it go and they and one thing that Tim Renner really dives into is a lot of these

01:17:16.080 historical accounts he calls it weirdwashed where people will report the the actual Bigfoot but if

01:17:25.040 you looked deeper into their testimony you know the obviously the bigfoot encounter gets transmitted

01:17:30.720 but what gets washed off of it is maybe they had poltergeist activity yeah maybe they saw lights

01:17:36.260 in the sky or in the woods after that and that's not documented because that's a little too woo

01:17:40.940 and they call they also call those people the woo footers kind of a derision towards that but i i

01:17:47.400 think it's uh more of an all-encompassing phenomenon that uh that really we can't put

01:17:53.960 of flesh and blood label on i think there's there's more to it the mechanics of it i have no

01:18:00.260 idea but i it's fun to have these discussions for sure yeah i've started listening to wes germer's

01:18:06.800 sasquatch chronicles and that's a really fun one because wes just lets them talk and they you know

01:18:12.720 they unpack their entire encounter a lot of times he'll even say people will ask for the more extreme

01:18:19.060 things to just be omitted or or can we just not talk about this because this thing did happen 0.68

01:18:23.120 but i don't want to include that because i sound like an asshole um but one of the things that's

01:18:28.700 super consistent is this telepathy or mind speak for both dogman and bigfoot in fact i don't really 0.58

01:18:36.040 know i've listened to so many of these things i couldn't tell you if i've heard anywhere they

01:18:40.520 where they talked with their mouth outside of these weird things like you know bigfoot hunters

01:18:44.120 will say there's like a samurai chatter i don't know if you've ever heard that yeah i've heard

01:18:49.100 the uh the tapes from uh i can't remember the guy's name but from the sierras i don't know

01:18:53.540 what to make of that it's it's a fascinating sound but overwhelmingly what i hear is that

01:18:58.140 they communicate via intrusive thought you know um to to the extent that people call it mind

01:19:04.480 speaker or telepathy and um another thing that's very consistent is in the moments leading up to

01:19:11.760 seeing these things everything will go unbelievably silent now some people will say all the noise in

01:19:17.580 the forest stopped so all the the chattering of the bugs and the and you know the wildlife

01:19:22.040 and the ambient noises from nearby roads or the wind and the trees and all this rustling

01:19:28.420 stops because if the forest is anybody who spends time out there will tell you it's very it's very

01:19:32.960 loud it's very loud anytime i've been camping or anything like that like it's there's a ton of

01:19:37.480 ambient noise from all the critters um they will say it stops altogether to the point where it's

01:19:44.920 dead silence some people will go even further and say it's as if things were muffled like being in

01:19:50.640 some sort of a bubble where i listened to a story recently and a guy let off warning shots as

01:19:58.200 something approached him and it was a nine millimeter i think he cracked off two rounds

01:20:02.380 and he said after shooting he would always have a ringing in his ear didn't happen this time so

01:20:09.800 that's like a real um profound example of the degree to which the sound is muffled i guess the

01:20:16.780 question would be are you walking into their uh like their cube like you remember the meadow when

01:20:22.980 we were talking yeah the meadows project yeah yeah yeah so those guys actively walked into a

01:20:28.460 cube that they saw and then they all end up getting like cancer and dying it's craziness

01:20:33.060 or uh is that cube being generated that that wherever they're at is that field being generated

01:20:38.820 because of the entity that is there or do they exist within that's what i'm trying to say it's

01:20:44.080 who it almost seems like some people will say like they have the ability to like transmute

01:20:48.780 reality they change some fundamental aspect of reality like yeah either either you crossed into

01:20:54.340 something or it looks the same but you're not really there which then starts to beg the question

01:20:59.160 if somebody was outside of that field would they even see what you saw i wonder if that cathedral

01:21:04.120 within that field right yeah that's you know what that would be an interesting thing to take like an

01:21:09.600 emf meter or do some kind of gis scans to see if there is a magnetic anomaly or if there's some

01:21:17.640 kind of um high emf uh spikes around where that happened that's yeah i mean these are but these

01:21:26.320 are the things that have made this field of research super weird so you use that expression

01:21:31.140 before the woo you know the woo footers or or whatever um it's kind of funny because like well

01:21:37.100 from my cursory observation of bigfoot observers it seems like a lot there's a lot more woo footers

01:21:42.940 or at least a lot more interdimensional bigfooters out there whereas before you know but when i was

01:21:48.460 kind of looking at it like that 10 15 years ago that wasn't the case no no that's been a modern

01:21:54.700 phenomenon i've been following it you know just out of interest for the past probably 25 years

01:22:00.540 And I've noticed that there's definitely went from the flesh and blood camp to the more quantum or woo footer perspective, or at least a lot of those flesh and blood people are recognizing there might be a supernatural component to this.

01:22:18.380 yeah yeah i i don't know where to put it it's it's become so chaotic that it opens the door for

01:22:26.620 any number of potential realities as to its nature in fact i i think the same thing that

01:22:33.420 we talked about with dogman where i do think it's highly likely that they're you know reverse

01:22:38.480 engineering um because you hear these stories of people killing them and you also hear these stories

01:22:44.120 of something coming to collect the body,

01:22:46.620 whether it's like, you know, men in black,

01:22:49.880 unmarked, but clearly official,

01:22:52.560 you know, military intelligence, whatever.

01:22:55.860 I've heard that enough times

01:22:57.440 that it seems pretty clear to me

01:23:00.280 that they have some vested interest.

01:23:02.200 So of course, if they were able to take a body,

01:23:05.720 you know, and get their hands on the genetic material,

01:23:09.760 they would try to recreate it in some way, shape or form.

01:23:12.520 So the same way you have that phenomenon likely taking place with Dogman, it's probably the same thing with Bigfoot.

01:23:19.080 You know, I remember a story about a guy in an 18-wheeler shoots one of these Dogmen with a .45 through the eye.

01:23:29.920 And I remember him saying, like, he distinctively got the impression that if he hadn't, by some stroke of miracle, hit this thing in the eye, it would not have died.

01:23:39.560 it was just so big and and hardy um that it wouldn't have any he said he he heard it hit

01:23:47.420 the ground he saw it tumbling in his rear view and he slammed his brakes and as he slammed his

01:23:52.300 brakes he saw everything behind him get illuminated in red and so he's driving this 18-wheeler he he 0.97

01:23:58.760 turns around which is a pain in the ass you know it takes some time but he finally turns around 0.93

01:24:03.020 and he heads back that way and somebody is already there at the scene where the body was and he can 0.98

01:24:08.520 see the all of the gravel and dirt and and greenery that had been ripped up from this

01:24:15.480 thing sliding off the road and into the tree line and um and he said hey did you guys see something

01:24:23.480 back here uh i'm pretty sure something just you know came out of the woods and and they said oh

01:24:29.360 a bear died and another bear came and dragged it off into the forest which is bizarre and they're 0.85

01:24:39.780 just sitting there watching that he goes what the fuck so he gets out of there in short order i don't

01:24:45.120 know how long it was after that he's approached by a couple of you know feds and they told him 0.99

01:24:50.500 that uh they wanted to talk to him and the only clue they gave him was that he killed their asset

01:24:56.860 is how they put it which you know then you're left to go why on earth would they tell you

01:25:01.140 anything and maybe they would tell you something because nobody's going to believe you

01:25:04.160 if they did say that thing to you and you went off and got on some fringe show somewhere and said

01:25:09.520 you know that the feds told me i killed their asset but that's also not the first time i've

01:25:14.780 heard something like that so they consider these things assets potentially so they are you know

01:25:20.740 creating them in labs but maybe they do exist in the natural as well and the reason that i'm

01:25:26.780 saying that is because everything with this is so messy it's so messy man there's there's ufos

01:25:34.180 involved there's portals involved there's infrasound and and force fields uh that's silent

01:25:43.380 and muffle things there's telepathy and you know you're still left to deal with what i see

01:25:51.720 overwhelmingly is the running theory people are beginning to think you know a bigfoot is it is a

01:25:56.820 nephilim that it does share some human dna but there's something else mixed in it that it's

01:26:01.400 ancient and that it's highly intelligent canonite or esau or something yeah it's crazy yeah it gets

01:26:07.640 wild and i just thought of tops nest next t-shirt design like the cbb cryptid breeding bureau

01:26:16.120 oh nice by the way if that is a division that's got to be a fun job imagine a fun job you got to 0.93

01:26:21.720 jerk off the bigfoot well somebody's got to jerk off the bigfoot i don't know if that's everybody's 0.94

01:26:25.320 job uh so i have a panel coming up here in a few weeks that i've been asked to moderate 0.89

01:26:33.080 and the topic is going to be ce5 so i have a couple ce5 um practitioners that are going to

01:26:43.100 be on the panel and i was wondering if you guys had any specific questions that you think i should

01:26:49.720 ask them oh why why are you gay why are you gay no uh so some interesting questions that i think

01:26:57.040 you would probably get um answers for if you're going to be into ce5 at all and you're going to 0.88

01:27:04.320 be a practitioner you've got a fascination with this sort of um anomalous modality occurrence

01:27:10.260 i would ask them uh if they've had experiences throughout their life

01:27:16.540 going back to childhood and you're going to get unanimous yeses across the board i would imagine

01:27:21.900 um and the other thing is i don't know if they would draw the correlation between using the ce5

01:27:28.340 app and the things that you know our experience are having happen in their life at the moment

01:27:34.000 because if you've had a lifetime of strange experiences you probably wouldn't draw that

01:27:38.320 correlation but are they now having an uptick an uptick experiences communications poltergeist

01:27:45.040 activities sleep paralysis abduction experiences you name it it's a it's a debate you're saying

01:27:50.360 no it's a it's a panel at a it's the cryptids and anomalies uh conference in in wisconsin here

01:27:58.600 in may 6 i believe and i i've been asked to you know sit down with these guys and just kind of

01:28:06.040 moderate the discussion so ask them questions get into the modalities um and one of my friends said

01:28:13.880 grab it are you recording this uh it's it's possible yeah we could and he said that uh

01:28:22.120 do you think that ce5 and seance anomalies are the same thing so is there some connective tissue

01:28:28.040 from the old practices of seances from like the victorian era the spiritualist area

01:28:33.400 um are those the same things as ce5 because i think there there is some connective tissue i

01:28:39.240 I don't know if it's the exact same, but I think you'd probably see the same results

01:28:43.420 in you guys saying, you know, if there are other paranormal phenomenon that have been

01:28:48.300 occurring in your life since doing this, you might want to take heed.

01:28:54.240 Well, I mean, yeah, everything that we've looked into is this, it's what Sam Tripoli

01:28:59.920 calls hardwired mysticism.

01:29:01.640 So all of these entities and channeling and everything that took place in the past, even

01:29:08.000 And Aleister Crowley, I forget in in what book it was, but he kind of mused on the idea that eventually, you know, these things would would take a much more scientific approach.

01:29:20.520 And I think maybe what he was right over the money on is that they would take a more technological approach.

01:29:26.960 And I think that that's exactly what that might be the evolution from the spiritual assailants to a modern technological framework.

01:29:35.960 And I do believe that what they're experiencing is just – it's a frequency-based technology that's very similar to the binaural beats that the Gates program would use.

01:29:47.380 You know, people – you can listen to the Gates tapes.

01:29:49.740 Yeah, I'd say – I'd be less interested in, like, giving you questions to ask them because I'm sure that you kind of already know where to steer it.

01:29:57.360 I'd be more interested in hearing just their testimony.

01:30:02.380 You letting us know what they're saying,

01:30:05.480 specifically who they're talking to,

01:30:09.100 if they're talking to the same or similar entities,

01:30:12.280 if they're talking at all,

01:30:13.340 or maybe some of them are just calling in orbs or UFOs

01:30:16.660 and having fun with that.

01:30:18.180 And if they are talking to them,

01:30:20.200 what is the overall message?

01:30:22.760 What are they getting back out of this?

01:30:24.740 And I have a friend that's on the panel,

01:30:26.480 and he's a videographer so if we can record it i'll definitely pass you guys along a copy so

01:30:32.380 you can see it by the way if if afterwards you do have um anything that you think would would

01:30:39.260 pique our interest might be interested in talking to some of those people having them i don't want

01:30:44.000 to tell them what they're doing is wrong or right i just want to because the audience knows already

01:30:48.060 what we suspect is going on and if they are going to echo those sentiments yeah taking drugs away

01:30:52.860 from a drug addict is not going to work you kind of have to show them like well but again i don't

01:30:57.160 know maybe it's working out for them yeah but if they are having interactions i imagine there's a

01:31:03.940 high likelihood that they are being imparted with sort of gnostic principles and ideologies look at

01:31:09.880 what look at uh david wilcock yeah shout out to david wilcock shout out to david wilcock but

01:31:15.300 yeah that's where i think this ultimately leads and david made an astute observation about all

01:31:21.300 these people that are uh touching that other side uh whether they're doing it light i don't know how

01:31:27.700 deep david wilcock was into it but obviously pretty deep yeah but that's where it leads man

01:31:32.760 at least a poverty uh disease depression yeah yeah yeah your relationships fall apart your body

01:31:39.580 falls apart your mentality falls apart you get a lot of cool occult knowledge uh but in the end

01:31:46.060 just be very weary of where

01:31:48.460 that's going to lead you, you know?

01:31:50.060 So I got one more to tease you

01:31:52.460 with, but we're going to have to

01:31:54.320 table this one for our next discussion.

01:31:57.160 Have you guys heard of

01:31:58.320 a project by the U.S. Navy

01:32:00.620 called Project Sanguine,

01:32:03.020 also known as Project

01:32:04.500 Elf?

01:32:06.440 Sanguine, I thought, was a Latin word for blood. 0.91

01:32:08.660 It is, yes. 1.00

01:32:10.280 I know about elf waves,

01:32:12.860 extremely low frequency, but

01:32:14.580 i i don't think it's the same thing we're talking it is actually so and it was during the cold war

01:32:21.460 the u.s navy had a project going on in the north woods of wisconsin as well as the upper peninsula

01:32:27.940 of michigan where they laid a ton of this cable and the cable was connected to transmitters

01:32:38.660 that transmitted elf frequencies now the official uh the official purpose of the project was to

01:32:46.980 be able to transmit um ultra low frequencies to submarines so it was pretty much what they

01:32:55.380 i believe they called it a door knock or an alarm bell so if a submarine if you wanted them to

01:33:01.620 surface you weren't able to get a hold of them but if you could transmit this elf signal to them

01:33:08.420 as a door knocker to say hey we need you to come topside so we can send you a message

01:33:15.540 they were able to do it through these transmitters but with what you guys say about puharage

01:33:22.180 is true was there some kind of covert use to this project of these elf transmissions coming from

01:33:30.340 the north woods of wisconsin i almost want to instinctively say yes i want to hear yeah i need

01:33:36.740 too but i need i need to dive deeper in that and maybe we can talk about that on on another episode

01:33:42.180 but uh just some connective tissue between who harwich because he comes up in every conversation

01:33:47.940 yeah he does his first wife virginia pruharik she was a resident of madison wisconsin and 0.97

01:33:56.500 a lot of people don't know what happened to her um she had a touch of schizophrenia from

01:34:03.300 the reports and she threw herself from the top of the um the hospital that she was uh being admitted

01:34:10.660 to so she she was born lived and died in madison wisconsin and was was uh married to uh for many

01:34:19.780 years so some speculate that maybe it was one of the seances maybe it was an experiment that

01:34:27.300 arch was doing that drove her insane and huh made her so that's just kind of a teaser implant in her

01:34:33.620 tooth well you don't listen man you if you think that you can open up a door within your household

01:34:38.620 and you have this legal binding contract to your wife it's not something's not going to affect her

01:34:43.160 you're fooling yourself and i think that you're going to find out a little bit of this with this 0.87

01:34:47.300 c5 so maybe yeah maybe even press a little bit and ask them about their marital relations or 0.99

01:34:51.780 oh that's a good way yeah because family and friends yeah definitely one of the guys that we

01:34:56.460 we've uh interviewed a couple of times his uh girlfriend now and i think his his uh parents as

01:35:02.200 well who live close to him they're also experiencing the phenomenon so it it ekes out the tendrils

01:35:07.740 spread uh the closer you get to people and the longer you're in contact with this stuff i listened

01:35:12.560 to your episode earlier with uh dr heather lynn and just kind of the spiritual attack that she

01:35:17.460 was coming under it's like you know it's like i i want to keep this stuff out at arm's distance i

01:35:24.020 have two two small children too so it's just like uh admire from afar but you know like they say when

01:35:30.820 when you look into the abyss the abyss looks back so i think it's uh spiritual protection

01:35:35.800 and caution that we need to give to these these topics so i think a lot of what we do and and

01:35:42.440 sounds like you're doing a similar thing is like you imagine you're in a dark cave and we're just

01:35:46.240 pointing flashlights on things and going like hey look at that and but like the problem is when you

01:35:51.260 go and you start picking it up and interacting with it that's the problem but if you're just on

01:35:55.580 a it's like being on a tour and like we're a tour guide and we're just like yeah if you look over 0.99

01:36:00.640 here you'll see star seeds very gay very retarded don't touch them don't don't mess with that yeah 0.96

01:36:06.120 i know it's shiny and cool looking don't touch it just leave it alone but there it is there it is 0.99

01:36:09.620 and then you just keep moving um but yeah that interaction once you start crossing that line

01:36:14.100 you download the ce5 app and shit that's where things get wonky but but having a discussion i

01:36:19.420 don't think is a problem that analogy reminds me of when i used to work in in uh the the subway in

01:36:24.440 the tunnels and we were down by uh where fdr had his secret tunnel yeah and uh we we kind of went

01:36:31.840 off the beaten path we were doing uh track inspection and it had a flashlight and i'm like

01:36:36.240 like it's dark because there's no lighting in this it's like a defunct tunnel and the wall

01:36:41.320 appears to be like glistening or moving and I shine the flashlight on it and it's just like

01:36:46.640 in my scope of the flashlight it's just a you know concrete old concrete wall and I move it

01:36:52.480 and it's like it just has like a weird property and then I turn the side flashlight on which has

01:36:56.620 like a brighter scope and the entire wall is filled with roaches yeah so but they were they

01:37:02.820 were appearing and they were moving away from the scope of my light as I'm as I'm kind of like

01:37:08.420 tracking them so it's weird it looks like something the whole wall is kind of sort of moving and in a

01:37:13.860 way that's kind of what we do we like point a flashlight at a thing we we look at it and we

01:37:17.920 you see it sort of but and the rest is obscured until you turn on the rest of this flashlight

01:37:23.160 and you're like yeah this whole wall is filled with roaches yeah then you have to ask yourself

01:37:27.760 do i do i leave this place is there protection that i can do but like we're kind of living in

01:37:32.020 that room that's filled with roaches and it's becoming increasingly more filled with roaches

01:37:38.200 so i don't know i think the best that we can do is prepare ourselves yeah you know because we're

01:37:45.780 here we're we've always been in this room and before we were just kind of looking at maybe

01:37:51.020 the speculation of possibly something happening around the edges of our flashlight but now

01:37:55.680 as the illumination increases like we're realizing okay we're here something needs to be done about

01:38:00.600 this and i think what needs to be done is uh it's it's with with us it's not necessarily

01:38:05.500 about the roaches yeah i can't do anything with the roaches the roaches are going to happen and

01:38:10.020 and i am here so i have to prepare myself yeah yeah it's the best that i can do all right well

01:38:16.420 listen jeff this is a fascinating conversation man um i'd love to have you back for for a part

01:38:20.800 two if you want to talk about this whole um you know pooharage connection and things of that

01:38:24.860 nature we cover a little bit of your your children's story too that that sounds like fun

01:38:28.300 yeah yeah that'd be uh that'd be cool but before we get out of here let's remind everybody where

01:38:32.420 they can find you badger land legends on instagram and facebook is the best place to find me

01:38:38.180 did you smash that follow back button top i gotta log in dog oh yeah this isn't this is just like

01:38:45.220 the regular i did i did on instagram this is your facebook awesome it's not even his facebook it's

01:38:49.780 not even logged in it's just like public facebook yeah it's just i don't know how to log into my

01:38:53.320 facebook on here i'm a boomer i can't i can't believe you're that's your main facebook is a

01:38:57.240 terrible well actually i'm finding out that facebook is kind of no he's doing really well

01:39:01.200 on on these platforms maybe that's why i i didn't like facebook and now i'm finding out like oh it's

01:39:05.980 actually people i actually need this i actually need this and the people communication is much

01:39:10.380 better on facebook yeah so with that being said if you got a crazy story from wisconsin whether

01:39:16.100 you know it's a a long lost legend or personal encounter hit me up i'm always happy to talk

01:39:22.380 instagram is probably the best method for that but um facebook messenger works too all right you

01:39:28.860 heard him guys go follow uh badger land legends on on facebook and on on instagram that's right

01:39:35.020 jeff thank you for thanks for coming hanging out and uh and blessing us with with some cool stories

01:39:39.500 dude yeah this is great until next time don't forget to obey submit and comply we'll see you 0.94

01:39:45.500 They bred with daughters of men 0.97

01:39:50.180 And they will do it again 1.00

01:39:54.500 The end is written in the book

01:39:58.720 In the pages they foresaw

01:40:02.500 Death squad

01:40:04.400 Death squad

01:40:08.600 Death squad

01:40:12.740 When the last trumpet sounds

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Nephilim Death Squad - April 30, 2026

The White Lady w⧸ Jeff Finup

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