Jay Dyer is a writer, podcaster, and host of the He Who Shall Not Be Named podcast. In this episode, he joins us to talk about his journey from being an atheist to becoming a believer, and why he thinks Christianity is one of the purest forms of Christianity.
00:02:43.700But one of the names that, you know, right away that comes up and you're like, oh, shit, Jay Dyer said that, like where I'm on it.
00:02:52.560So you've had a big influence in the in, I guess, like the conspiratorial movement of my life or at least the growing, the development of the ideas that I that I've had coming to this point.
00:03:03.380Because, you know, I was I'm friends with Clint, like we were talking about before.
00:03:06.540So I was very into politics, geopolitics, economics, libertarian theory, stuff like that.
00:03:11.260And then that lead that led me down the rabbit hole, which kind of fed right back into my faith, the church that I had left.
00:03:20.060And now I'm in the process of rediscovering it.
00:03:23.340But with a with different with a different lens.
00:03:26.780Whereas before I would I would have told you, I think the Bible is a set of stories that we should live by.
00:03:31.160Not really important, but analogies, you know, things like that.
00:03:34.960Now I'm rereading and I'm like, all this stuff is true.
00:03:38.940And I invited you on because I wanted to know more about the the type of Christianity that you speak about mostly, because it seems like one of the purest forms.
00:03:51.880It seems like people like like Buck Johnson, who I've who I've been friends with and I've interviewed, he went from atheist to orthodox and the change in his personality.
00:04:04.220Yeah, the change in his personality has been like startling.
00:04:09.800So I'm like, what is going on with this specific type of Christianity?
00:04:15.820Did you know you knew him before back when he was atheist?
00:04:53.760And Jay, just so you know where where I'm coming from, it's like I've I don't want to say conceited because I never denied that the world was most accurately viewed through a biblical lens.
00:05:05.540But I came to this understanding after years of absorbing conspiracy and supernatural sort of more of a supernatural worldview.
00:05:20.500And so I don't think you can have that be your basis of understanding the world and not consider strongly that the Bible is an accurate representation of what's happening.
00:05:32.080But it wasn't something that I jumped into because I'm sure I don't have to tell you.
00:05:36.480But for a long time, the most easily dunked on religion was Christianity and not easily.
00:05:44.880But most readily dunked on religion was Christianity.
00:05:48.520It seemed to be the one that it was no holds bars.
00:05:51.080You can get on stage and say whatever you want about Jesus, about the church, about the Bible.
00:05:55.740And so I wasn't eager, let's say, to jump into that and start to adopt those worldviews.
00:06:03.940But after a certain amount of time and in my own personal experiences, it's been 17 years now that I've been what I could call a conspiracy theorist.
00:06:14.320And only the past maybe four years did I come around to understanding that, yes, the world is most accurately viewed through a biblical lens.
00:06:27.340And so when you try to quantify that and how much I understand about Christianity in the Bible, it's actually very little.
00:06:35.000I just know that based off of my experiences and things that I've seen, I'm like, OK, this is true.
00:06:41.800It's the best lens through which to look at these things.
00:06:44.420So this show, along with the audience, has been like a learning experience.
00:06:51.980So when Top talks about the Buck Johnson interview, that was the most, not the most technical,
00:06:57.580because we've had people on like Gary Wayne and L.A. Marzulli and a bunch of these characters in this space who see a lot of the supernatural through the biblical lens.
00:07:09.300But I'm hoping that this will serve as, you know, not too technical, right, because you don't want to be I don't want to give the audience anything too dry.
00:07:17.800We're kind of retards on this show and we like to give people exciting, retarded content.
00:07:23.240But I am also excited to learn about the thing that I've come to understand is the the proper viewing.
00:07:28.900I do. I do a lot of boring, retarded content, but I can also do exciting, retarded content, too.
00:07:34.980There's a Venn diagram of two levels of retarded and that we can we can hit the middle there.
00:07:40.180So but yeah, no, I mean, I think you're right that in the last, you know, since the coup,
00:07:46.280you've it seems like a lot of people actually maybe before that you could go back to remember when Bruce Gender was propped up as the woman of the year.
00:07:56.360I think a lot of people started thinking, wait a minute, like there's a big scale push, not just for like.
00:08:05.220But like actual evil, like there's actual evil going on.
00:08:08.460And then I think when a lot of people started seeing the DRAG stuff with kids at libraries, you know,
00:08:14.920then people started thinking, wait a minute, there's actually like a legit spiritual evil that's more than just, you know,
00:08:21.680the government trying to control us, which that's true.
00:08:24.940But a lot of people, I think, were thinking that if there's this much evil that we can start to see out there,
00:08:31.280there's got to be a good, you know, to the contrast with evil.
00:08:34.620So I think that opened up a lot of people's ideas to the possibility of, you know, like you said, spiritual realities,
00:08:41.480but also maybe even the existence of God for people that, you know, hadn't considered that or had been going through an atheist agnostic phase.
00:08:49.880I kind of had a, I guess you could say a doubting Christianity phase, maybe from about 2008 to 2012.
00:08:57.860And I was kind of interested in perennialism and Neoplatonism and that kind of stuff.
00:09:03.260And then I started, you know, kind of gradually working my way back just through getting back into reading the Bible about 2013, 14.
00:09:10.980So, yeah, I think this is happening to a lot of people because we're just noticing like objective evil.
00:09:16.260And the best account for this, the best explanation is, like you said, the worldview that's presented in the Bible.
00:09:25.080And then, you know, as to what Orthodox Christianity is, we think it's really just the ancient expression of Christianity that you see in the first thousand years.
00:09:34.980So we would reject a lot of the conspiratorial accounts that you see amongst evangelicals or Seventh-day Adventists or even Muslims where they say,
00:09:44.280oh, well, Constantine created this Christianity, you know, at the Council of Nicaea where they invented the Trinity or something like that.
00:09:51.480But we do a lot of what we've done several about a lot, but we've done several talks where we go into looking at the church fathers of the first, second and third century where it shows that they taught the Trinity, too.
00:10:02.220So what happened at the Council of Nicaea wasn't something new, wasn't invented, wasn't a contrast or a contradiction to the Christianity of the first three centuries.
00:10:11.120And so if we look at the, you know, other issues like the formation of what's called the canon of Scripture, and that just means the books that went into the Bible to make it up as we know it today.
00:10:23.440And we would argue that you can't really divorce the living, existing historical community of the church from that decision.
00:10:31.860And when we go back and when we look at what those people believed in those centuries, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, particularly, they believe what we believe.
00:10:40.160So that for me was a really long journey. It took me many, many years to come to this.
00:10:44.580I started out as a Baptist and then had a long period where I was a Roman Catholic, and then I noticed a lot of problems with the Vatican's claims and the history of the church as well.
00:10:56.240So that was a long, maybe 15-year approach for me to come to Orthodoxy.
00:11:01.360But in short, yeah, we just think that it is the church of the first thousand years, and I'm not limiting it there.
00:11:07.520We think it's the church of the second thousand years.
00:11:09.180But if you get into this issue of, say, Protestant versus Catholic, a lot of people think, well, if I go read those people for the first thousand years, that'll help me determine where the Bible came from.
00:11:21.440And should we have tradition? Should we have a pope? Should we have synods and councils?
00:11:26.980What's the best way for the church to be governed?
00:11:28.620All these questions kind of emerge out of the first thousand years of Christianity.
00:11:32.320And so for me, when I went and dove into those guys, it was pretty obvious after a while that they didn't believe in the papacy, as we know of it today.
00:11:41.480And they weren't operating like a standard evangelical church, but they were, for all intents and purposes, identical to the Orthodox church.
00:11:49.680That's what we would say it is, is the historical church.
00:11:51.920Yeah, we, on the show, like, it's not that we, like, tear down church.
00:11:56.900I don't want to say that we do that, but we talk about this idea of, like, what is church?
00:12:03.240And, like, we're still not really sure.
00:12:06.080Like, we think, like, a community, obviously a community of people is kind of like a church, just where one or more are gathered in my name.
00:12:12.320In a way, we're doing that with, you know, the people that watch this, but it's not, it's not quite church.
00:12:18.180And one of the things that drew me away from church, I was in it for a long time, Pentecostal, was the governmental organizational structure of the church.
00:12:27.000You have the treasury department, you've got a president, you've got, like, layers of this bureaucracy.
00:12:32.340And when you, I played music in it, when you're in it, it's disgusting.
00:12:36.740Because you kind of, like, take a peek underneath and you're like, this shit is all rotted.
00:12:39.560You have, like, fat bitchy women running everything in the Pentecostal church.
00:13:03.580Yeah, I think church governance is a good point.
00:13:06.180It's kind of a boring topic when people think about church governance.
00:13:09.300But, you know, we would say that all the stuff that you see in the Old Testament and the way Israel operated, we see them as the Old Testament church.
00:13:18.080So they had the role of a high priest.
00:13:20.580They had the priest and they had the Levite.
00:13:24.220And for us, that corresponds to the New Testament teaching of bishop, presbyter or priest, and then a deacon.
00:13:30.780So there's that three tiered structure is the same in the Old Testament to the New Testament.
00:13:34.760Of course, Christ is the ultimate high priest for us, not the Pope or anything like that.
00:13:38.640So the ultimate high priest role, we think, is fulfilled in the person of Christ when he ascended into heaven.
00:13:43.340But then there is still, in our view, what we would say is the Melchizedekian priesthood, which if you look at Psalm 110, right, it says that I will make you a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
00:13:54.500So Christ's priesthood is that eternal priesthood.
00:13:57.820And both the person of Melchizedek in Genesis and the Levitical priesthood or the Aaronic priesthood, we would say both of those priesthoods in history are types or fulfillments of the priesthood.
00:14:09.780And so when he establishes the new Israel, we think in the Gospels, when Jesus is talking about the kingdom in Matthew 16 and Matthew 18, and when he tells the apostles, you know, I'll give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
00:14:21.640He doesn't just say it to Peter in Matthew 16 like the Roman Catholics think.
00:14:25.380He also says in Matthew 18, two chapters later, that the whole college of the apostles possesses the same keys and authority.
00:14:33.180But he also says in Matthew, he who hears you, hears me.
00:14:36.480So we think that there's a legitimate authority passed on to them.
00:14:39.760He breathes on them at the end of John and says, whoever sins, you remit, they're remitted.
00:14:44.180Whoever sins, you retain, they're retained.
00:14:45.920And then in the book of Acts, you see them going out after Pentecost, after they're empowered by the Holy Spirit.
00:14:51.920They go out and set up churches and particularly the letters of Paul to Timothy are probably the most relevant here because Paul says to Timothy, I appointed you in Ephesus.
00:15:03.140And then he says, you lay hands on men after you who are, you know, qualified, have good morals, et cetera, good character, who know the faith.
00:15:10.540And he says that all the things you heard from me in the presence of many witnesses.
00:15:14.400So that includes Paul's oral catechesis or teaching.
00:15:18.160So if you look at Acts 20, for example, Paul says, I'm pretty sure it's 20, says that he taught for three years, day and night in Ephesus.
00:15:24.880So he's teaching catechizing, not just with written texts.
00:15:28.320Certainly he's commenting on the Old Testament.
00:15:30.120But the whole body of doctrines, which is oral and written, is what Paul charges Timothy in those two epistles to pass on.
00:15:37.780And he specifically says, and this is a key point of departure, I think, from pretty much most Protestants would be where Paul says that do not lay hands hastily on somebody because the gift of the Holy Spirit, he says, is transferred in that what we call the right of ordination.
00:15:53.080So when a person is ordained, we believe it's an actual sort of historical descent from the original apostolic body.
00:16:01.960And that for us is what we call apostolic succession.
00:16:04.820And so when I was a Protestant, that kind of became a key dividing line between the Protestant view and on this, just that topic, Orthodox and Catholics agree in terms of apostolic succession.
00:16:16.200They think, of course, that it's only through the Pope that this has had.
00:16:19.320We think that it comes just from the individual apostles.
00:16:24.540So anybody who descends from the apostles with that laying on of hands, and it's not just a mechanical thing.
00:16:30.460You also have to have the right theology to go with it.
00:16:33.200So that's a couple of areas of departure from like the Roman Catholic view of apostolic succession.
00:16:38.760But that's the basic idea that the apostles appointed specific successors in the cities where they set up the churches.
00:18:02.240Do they look to the Pope as a legitimate thing?
00:18:05.740Or is this, you know, has this been co-opted in their eyes?
00:18:09.440Yeah, we would say that the co-opting happened a long time ago.
00:18:13.820So from the Orthodox perspective, the split between the Eastern Church and the Western Church, which for the most part, for the first 800 or 900 years, is the same.
00:18:23.860But the East and West for the first 800 or 900 years is pretty much unified.
00:18:28.320And then you start having some fissures around the 800s where there's a new insertion into the creed on the part of Charlemagne and his court theologians.
00:18:39.200So it's a kind of a move by the state here, actually, to try to alter the church's theological confession and the creed.
00:18:47.680And so they start saying what's known as the filioque addition to the creed, the Nicene Creed.
00:18:53.160So this is where it starts to rupture.
00:18:55.040There's already kind of two different ideas of theology between East and West.
00:18:59.280But it really comes to fruition in 1054 when there's an official excommunicating of East and West between the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople in the East.
00:19:10.960And so that's the official sort of split of the church.
00:19:13.620Ever since then, we believe that the papacy kind of went just kind of even worse and worse and worse.
00:19:19.920So for us, it's like a gradual innovating to where they wanted more and more worldly power.
00:19:25.220A couple of things you could look at that's pretty easy to see this is there's a document called Dictatus Pape under one of the Gregorian reformed popes of the 11th century.
00:19:38.240And this document is not very long, but it has, I don't know, 30 propositions where the pope basically makes himself.
00:19:46.000I don't know if you guys know about Dune, but I mean, basically says he's the Kwisatz Haderach.
00:19:49.460He basically says, I'm actually the emperor of all emperors.
00:19:52.680So every emperor in the world now owes their allegiance to me.
00:20:09.620That wasn't just some bullshit that I learned when I was a kid.
00:20:12.160Right. So you start to see this with there's actually before this a fraudulent document that was appealed to called the Donation of Constantine.
00:20:21.980And this was later in the Renaissance proven to be a forgery.
00:20:25.160The Vatican nowadays admits it was a forgery.
00:20:27.820But for many centuries, they backed up the what's called the temporal power of the Bishop of Rome by this forgery.
00:20:34.220There was other forgeries that backed it up as well.
00:20:37.140But we really see the first like explicit papal claims of this in the 11th century with what's called the Gregorian reforms.
00:20:46.620And this is where Pope Gregory and then the popes after him, Hildebrand and others, they they literally just revolutionized the governance of the church in the West to be totally papal.
00:20:59.060For example, prior to that, the church, the way a church would get a bishop in the canons of the councils of the first 800 years is that it only took like three bishops or a metropolitan, a local prominent bishop to appoint a new bishop.
00:21:12.760But when you get the Gregorian reforms, the pope says, no, I now appoint and approve all bishops in the world.
00:21:20.120And you can see why he would want to do that, because now he can ensure that every bishop in the world is now a papal bishop and in line with him, you see.
00:21:28.920So and this is an admitted this isn't like a conspiracy like this is just an admitted historical change in the governance of the church.
00:21:35.280But this is why you'll see Roman Catholics even to this day.
00:21:38.140Well, they'll just say, well, the pope can do whatever he wants.
00:21:40.160So he can do that. He can like totally change the way that bishops come to be because he could do that.
00:21:46.200He's the pope. Then there's an even stronger statement beyond that document called Dictatus Pape called Unum Sanctum.
00:21:59.180It's a famous document because it's the first document where the papacy says, not only do you have to be in the Roman Catholic Church to be saved,
00:22:07.500you actually have to believe also in the doctrine of the temporal supremacy of the Roman bishop to be saved.
00:22:16.480So from the Orthodox perspective, we think that the temptation to worldly power, to, you know, having eventually the Vatican Bank, all this crazy stuff,
00:22:26.140we think that it kind of began back a long time ago.
00:22:29.000And then it just kind of snowballed to what you have today to fast forward up to where you were talking about with like the weird stuff with it's called the Paul VI Audience Hall.
00:22:38.220There have been some weird Masonic and occultic architects who designed stuff for the Vatican in the modern, like 60s, 70s and 80s period.
00:22:48.880So I wouldn't be surprised if that audience hall wasn't designed by some weirdo creep or some PEDO, because that's pretty well known.
00:22:57.200But if you really go into the depth of like the conspiracy of the modern Vatican, that's all CIA stuff.
00:23:03.040And even Catholic researchers have written giant books proving this, particularly David Wemhoff's book about the relationship of the CIA to the Vatican at the time of the Cold War, 1950s and 60s.
00:23:16.640It's even it's called the Doctrinal Warfare Program.
00:23:56.560I think. So even by the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh century, you start to see the Bishop of Rome, who we would say is is a legitimate bishop.
00:24:07.960Like he was the Church of Rome originally began just like all the other what we would say is Orthodox churches.
00:24:14.960But what happened was because Rome was the seat of the empire in the first 300 years of Christianity before you get the creation of Constantinople by Constantine.
00:24:25.280I mean, what's called old Rome had a preeminence and they had a preeminence not because of some special gift of Peter or invalibility.
00:24:35.520But we believe it's just because, as like St. Irenaeus says in his book Against Heresies, if you read, I think it's book four of that.
00:24:42.580He says that Rome is great because Peter and Paul preached and were martyred there.
00:24:50.800So there's nothing mentioned about like a special gift of infallibility or anything like that.
00:24:57.360But there is an honor that's given to Rome just because of tradition.
00:25:01.300If you look at what's what's called a canon of Nicaea.
00:25:04.520And so the first ecumenical council, they would usually attach these canons, which are just rules of church governance.
00:25:10.640The sixth canon says that in the church will have a kind of a status of which bishops have honor.
00:25:18.300And Rome is given the first status and then Alexandria and then Antioch.
00:25:24.840Antioch is another place where Peter went and preached Christianity.
00:25:29.200And if you go to an Orthodox church, for example, a lot of them are called Antiochian Orthodox.
00:25:33.080They derive their descent from Peter going to Antioch.
00:25:37.380So, in other words, the point Orthodox often make there is that like that's just as much a Petrine church as Rome is.
00:25:44.900It's so there's no like why wouldn't you know, if you believe in infallibility of the Petrine descent, like why wouldn't there be that infallibility at Antioch?
00:27:35.140Yeah. Are they something that they consider or are they do they consider them like a deception or, you know, where do they place those?
00:27:42.700So there's a different types of these. There's what's called Pseudepagrapha.
00:27:47.420There's some that are called Apocrypha. And then there's the Deuterocanon.
00:27:51.240So you might you're probably referring to what's called the Deuterocanon, which is like Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Ecclesiasticus or Sirach.
00:28:01.720But yeah, we believe. Well, we believe that the Deuterocanon, which is those like Maccabees and those books that the Catholics have.
00:28:08.620We have those books as well. So we don't agree with the sort of the first being like Martin Luther and Calvin were the first to really say we don't want those books in here.
00:28:18.840So sometimes Protestants call those the Apocrypha. So I'm assuming that's what you mean.
00:28:22.740But there's also other books that are called Pseudepagrapha, like the Book of Enoch or something like that, which there's a few.
00:28:30.680I think the Slavonic, which is like the old Russian Bible, I think it includes the Book of Enoch.
00:28:37.240So because we don't believe in Sola Scriptura, like we don't have a problem with there being legitimate tradition in something like the Book of Enoch,
00:28:45.200even though it's not technically like it's not it's not in the Orthodox Study Bible.
00:28:49.680Like if you get the Orthodox Study Bible, it won't have it.
00:28:51.360It won't have Enoch in it, but we will have all those books that the Catholics have that Protestants don't.
00:29:35.840The origin of like vestments in the church has to do with the Book of Revelation and that we we see the priests as analogs to the priests in the Old Testament.
00:29:47.020So it's more like, you know, the outfit that the priest wears matches the type of outfit that you would see the priests in the Old Testament wearing.
00:29:56.320So we talked about it at the top of the show where Alex Jones is now talking about his admiration of orthodoxy.
00:30:09.020And we're in this time, you know, whether it was COVID or something like that that woke people up or we talked about it earlier, this drag queen story hour, all these different things sort of built up and broke the dam.
00:30:25.160But now it becomes impossible to look around and go.
00:30:28.820You know, this isn't inherently spiritual and we find ourselves in a really interesting place.
00:30:35.360I ask people if they think that we are in the beginning of maybe what you you would call a revitalization, you know, because as I said, my path here was through all these world events, was through seeing all this occult symbolism and conspiracy theories and all these different things.
00:30:55.640I'm not unique in that. I think a lot of people have have come through in that direction.
00:31:01.120And if that's true, then are we possibly seeing a resurgence in Christianity?
00:31:07.440And right now, Top and I were just talking about it maybe last week where the emergence of a new what would you call this top like they're going to label it like white supremacy or anti-Semitism or any number of things.
00:31:24.220Right. But like the phrase Christ is king is now becoming this this like hot button topic, which is fascinating because.
00:31:34.720Yeah, I understand kind of like both sides of it.
00:31:37.400There's a James Lindsay side where he's saying you're weaponizing it.
00:31:40.380And then there's another side that's saying like, you know, like you're actually glorifying Jesus.
00:31:44.960I'm in between. I think I think people are doing all those things, but I feel like it's a it's a necessary thing that has to happen in order for the next whatever next steps to play out.
00:31:55.880So people will misuse this stuff and they'll use it as a battering ram.
00:31:59.960But the fact that it's in the meme, it's out there in the ether and people are like thinking about this phrase a lot, says a lot about the times that we're in it.
00:32:09.920And Jay, I know you had a different take than we would have on the the red heifers and things like that.
00:32:16.040And like these weird what what possibly seems like a biblical prophecy unfolding could be obviously translated in multiple different ways.
00:32:25.700But it just I can't help but feel that we're at a culmination and we're building up to something.
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00:33:26.180Now, part of me, part of me is saying like, oh, it looks like ends time and time.
00:33:48.380A lot of issues, I think, in my view, the orthodox view on the end times is that we take some of those passages that are talked about, like in Luke 21 and Matthew 24 and what's called a partial preterist sense.
00:34:03.640And that means that the immediate context is Jesus talking about the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D.
00:34:10.100And that's a the sign that's supposed to occur that lets everyone know that the old covenant is finished.
00:34:16.340So when the temple's gone, if you read Luke 21, because it's written for a Gentile audience, it's a little clearer than what is in Matthew 24, all of that discourse.
00:34:25.940And Jesus says to the immediate audience standing in front of him, you hear when you see this temple gone, then you'll know that the things written of in the prophets, that that vengeance has been completed, has been fulfilled on this generation.
00:34:40.020So that's what we call partial preterism.
00:34:42.740It doesn't mean everything was fulfilled in 70 A.D.
00:34:45.480Like the bodily second coming of Christ didn't occur.
00:35:03.100And, for example, if you look at the way that on the Day of Atonement, the high priest would walk into the Holy of Holies and sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat of the ark.
00:35:12.920If you read the book of Hebrews in chapters seven and eight, Hebrews states that Jesus ascending into heaven, the third heavens, the throne of God, and preparing the way for us in that ascent.
00:35:24.460That was the fulfillment of the high priest going into the Holy of Holies.
00:35:27.880So that tells us that the temple is kind of a little model of the universe.
00:35:33.220When you walk into the temple, for example, there would be a lampstand with the candelabra, and that represented the celestial luminaries, the planets.
00:35:58.820Long story short, the destruction of the temple is a sign not just of the end of the old covenant under Moses, but it's a sign of the end of the universe.
00:36:22.000It comes from, I think, Jordanville Monastery.
00:36:24.100But that's a great book on this topic because it does mention certain signs that would accompany the end end, the final end.
00:36:31.600And if there is a new temple built, that would be a sign of the coming of Antichrist, according to the Orthodox Church.
00:36:39.320So while I did do some interviews where I was discussing the red heifer, that I don't think there's any immediate significance to that per se.
00:36:47.800If we start to say, if we start to see a temple built, if we start to, I mean, they'd have to get rid of that mosque first.
00:36:54.300If we see, you know, the movement towards a world dictator that's being worshipped and the one world religion, we see that spirit already at work in the world.
00:37:04.640But I think that, you know, when we actually see it manifested, we'll know that that's like the legit end end.
00:37:11.960So could we could have another thousand years of history?
00:38:22.840And it's like, yeah, they're they're waiting for those results.
00:38:26.060So Donnie Darkened is somebody that, Jay, you would probably find fascinating because he spends a lot of time connecting these dots as to why.
00:38:38.880Like even even Donald Trump's mother's maiden name was Christ.
00:38:42.240There's a lot of like really bizarre things that I don't know how much you get into it.
00:38:46.920But the idea that there is some sort of time traveling aspect with Donald Trump, if you look at the Ingersoll Lockwood books, if you look.
00:39:45.800So that's all just I mean, the book of Hebrews, the book of Galatians is pretty clear that there's not ever going to be animal sacrifices again.
00:39:56.500And if there are, it has nothing to do with Christianity.
00:39:59.480I mean, that's a return to what Hebrews says is apostasy.
00:40:02.900So I definitely think that you're on the right track that for the Jews to be deceived by an Antichrist figure, as Jesus says, if another comes in his name, him, you will believe.
00:40:12.880So the Orthodox Church has typically said that Antichrist would have to most likely be a Jew to deceive Jews.
00:40:24.200Personally, I wouldn't think that it would be Donald Trump.
00:40:26.640But you could argue that the spirit of what we see with goobers like John Hagee and these kind of people is definitely an Antichrist spirit for sure.
00:40:36.220What do you what do you make of like what's been going?
00:40:39.740I mean, it's it's it's fun to talk about on Twitter.
00:40:41.980I know I don't know if you see the stuff.
00:40:43.320I say wild stuff about like, you know, the Jewish question going on on Twitter, but paying attention to it more in a more focused manner is really what people should be doing.
00:40:53.920If you're like red flags aren't going up with what they've been doing on that side there.
00:40:59.820And like the behavior of of some of their more prominent rabbis, like a shmuley, these things are I'm like, what is going on in this religion?
00:41:08.040And why right now is it turning almost to to embrace this?
00:41:13.800Like whatever it almost feels like they're embracing an endgame or something they've been building toward.
00:41:19.040I mean, that's I'm sure that in their perspective, you know, they have this idea that you can do these various works and some of the more mystical views, like even the evil works contribute to the great work of bringing forth, you know, the Messiah.
00:41:35.640But so that seems to be part of the Talmudic and rabbinic rabbinic tradition that all of these works are contributing to manifesting this salvation.
00:41:44.720But it's sort of like identical to what's going on in the New Testament when you have the figures of the zealots and a couple of the zealots, right, became followers of Christ.
00:41:54.080And their idea was that it's all about worldly power, right?
00:41:57.640It's almost analogous to what we were talking about earlier with the temptation to the papacy, right?
00:42:03.000The Roman bishop got tempted with this, this desire for building an army and taking over the world and being the, you know, god emperor, the Kwisat Tadarach.
00:42:12.220And it's a similar temptation, I think, happens with what we're talking about.
00:42:17.460In my view, the Israel, as we call it, this nation state will play a role whenever that end times comes of being perhaps this, this domain from which this false religion for the world comes about.
00:42:33.000Maybe, and I'm just speculating, this is my speculation, maybe we get like a future papacy that says, you know, Judaism is the real religion all along and we need to capitulate to that or something like that.
00:42:46.540So I would, in my view, Antichrist would be a figure, a state figure arising.
00:42:52.680An apostate church would be analog to something like Rome that we see in the book of Revelation, the harlot of Revelation.
00:43:00.380I would say it could be a good match for something like that.
00:43:03.240And then, you know, it pushes the, the, the false church, the whore church pushes the worship of the beast, this, the state, this international super state.
00:43:12.860And then eventually the international super state casts off and doesn't need the whore anymore and basically says, you know, I'm God, whoever that entity or Antichrist figure is.
00:43:23.240So I think that's a, and that's kind of been my theory for a long time for like an apostate false religion.
00:43:29.760And I think the Pope fits that perfectly given that he's just capitulated more and more to, I don't know if you know about the relationship between like the papacy and, and Israel.
00:43:38.580I mean, the papacy is more and more capitulated to basically worshiping the old Testament God or like the papacy has even said stuff like, you know, Jews can be saved without, they don't need Jesus.
00:43:52.440Like they have their own path and covenant to God, which is, is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
00:44:02.580Cause, cause as you go into like a couple of thoughts, what are your thoughts on the star of Remfan and, and that, that part of the scripture?
00:44:10.040It does seem like that star probably is a six sided star.
00:44:13.940I don't know if, if for sure that the reason that Jews adopted that star necessarily has to do with ancient Remfan worship.
00:44:24.800It could be, I'm not, I'm not positive, but I do think that the star of Remfan is supposed to be that six sided star.
00:44:32.160It's supposed to signify like Saturn and you know, the worship of like human, it has human sacrifice as part of its ideology.
00:44:40.180So there's probably something to that, but I just don't know if it's really been confirmed.
00:44:44.600If the modern nation state of Israel has that star, because I know some people theorize that the Sabatian cult that exists, that they had a reverence for that star, or there was a kind of a Kabbalistic reverence for that symbol.
00:45:00.260I'm not sure it's a fascinating line because it even mentions, not only does it represent Remfan, but also of Moloch they're mentioned in the same sentence.
00:45:13.260And that's just, it's just bizarre because, you know, a lot of what we're talking about here is all these things coming to a head, a sort of a culmination of bizarre biblical events and high level noticing, right?
00:45:24.400Everybody can't stop noticing the spirituality and, and the backdrop has been painted with Moloch since, you know, Epstein's Island and the Hillary Clinton emails and all these different things.
00:45:36.580And now as we're moving forward and, and, you know, top says that there's like this big Jew question on Twitter constantly.
00:45:45.600And you find this reference to the star of Remfan directly next to a reference of Moloch.
00:45:52.640And the language is such that it's a little bit hardy because it says it's of Remfan, but not of Moloch, something, there's a different.
00:46:03.240You've taken up the tabernacle of Moloch.
00:46:56.460Yeah, I think you're right that, like, there's not a direct connection anywhere, biblically speaking, between the hexagram and David.
00:47:05.360But I'm just saying that if we begin to see the hexagram associated with the nation state of Israel, you know, around the time of the Rothschilds or whatever, I'm not exactly sure when that star begins to be symbolic of the nation state of Israel.
00:47:22.380There is a tradition that perhaps even goes back ancient, more ancient than that, where Philo says something like there was a tradition that that Solomon, you know, had created a ring.
00:47:36.060Now, the keys of Solomon is a later forgery.
00:47:39.840But Philo does talk about, and I remember I took a note of this when I was reading through some of, excuse me, not Philo, Josephus.
00:47:49.240So Josephus talks about this tradition in his day of the various sigils that Solomon used, and then he had a ring of this sort of sigil.
00:47:58.400But if I recall, it wasn't a six-sided star, I think it was a five-sided star.
00:48:02.220So maybe by the time of the emergence of the keys of Solomon in the 15 or 1600s, wherever that, that's a fake document, it's not from Solomon.
00:48:11.560They might have been pulling from this statement from Josephus and then added in as a six-sided star or something like that.
00:48:17.120But regardless of all that, I think that there's a more evident example where if we look at where Stephen in Acts 8 is pulling from, he's talking about the whole history of Israel, right?
00:48:31.160I mean, the nation-state of Israel from the time of Mount Sinai onwards is constantly tempted with turning to the pagan worship of the nations around them.
00:48:42.120And that includes, you know, it's like sex rights that we see in Numbers, Baal Peor, and human sacrifice, which is mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah.
00:48:51.000You know, this is why it's forbidden in Exodus and in Numbers to do, in Leviticus, to do that kind of sacrifice because the nations around Israel were tempting them with it.
00:49:01.160They continually fell into that worship, thus so much of the prophetic literature, whether it's Jeremiah or Hosea or whoever, is railing against that kind of human sacrifice, harlot temptation that Israel is tempted with.
00:49:15.780So, I mean, we don't have to, like, that's in the tradition, I think, of the erroneous side of Judaism, right?
00:49:24.980I mean, this is the Babylonian Talmud, I think, includes a lot of speculations about magical practices, the Zohar, these kinds of things, you know, include these practices, which not necessarily every Jew did.
00:49:39.220But within the rabbinic Judaism tradition, you've got rationalists like Maimonides, you've got esotericists and occultists like maybe Nachmanides, who's a Kabbalist.
00:49:53.200So you do have these different strands within the history of Judaism where they would engage in magical practices, creating of amulets and this kind of stuff.
00:50:00.680So I think that there's always been this strand present in various strands of rabbinic Judaism.
00:50:05.300So that's it's so interesting. And that's what really makes the Bible interesting, going back and reading it from the beginning, because, you know, just in the in the Ten Commandments, he said, you shall take no gods before me.
00:50:17.460And before that's kind of like, what does that mean? But obviously, we've named the show Nephilim Deskwad, and then you start to get into fallen angels and their offspring.
00:50:27.600And you're talking, I mean, then you can go down the line through historical figures in the Egyptian line and in the Greek pantheon.
00:50:33.660And now we're talking about actual small G gods that have had power here on Earth.
00:50:40.660And maybe at one point, we're actually like in a physical body here that people were worshiping.
00:50:45.540And that's long since been forgotten. And we we kind of like replicate what they wanted with a sacrifice, child sacrifice.
00:50:52.900I mean, America is doing it right now with freaking Planned Parenthood.
00:50:55.640And it's the largest human sacrifice machine ever.
00:51:00.440So like when we say, like, are we living in the end times?
00:51:02.960I'm like, you know, everybody said that. But I'm like, today they just killed a million babies.
00:51:08.260Maybe. What does that do to the world?
00:51:10.540What kind of like that kind of bloodshed, the most innocent bloodshed of of a child, like in certain locations?
00:51:15.740What does that do? What does that mean?
00:51:17.600Like we were doing this before, but on this kind of a scale, it's almost unheard of at this point.
00:51:23.520This is just an interesting side note.
00:51:27.020One of those, Ginsburg, remember the beat poet Ginsburg?
00:51:32.040He said on one of his drug trips, he interacted with Molech.
00:51:35.960And he felt like that the 60s counterculture was manifesting the entity known as Molech, which is interesting because, like, this is when you start to see the push for, you know, abortion, so to speak.
00:52:53.940And I think that, yeah, ultimately all of the religions out there that aren't Christianity, they always tend in this direction.
00:53:02.260I'm not saying every person in those religions is demonic, but that if you're part of that spirit, that as time progresses,
00:53:08.880they're more and more going to participate in that spirit of anti-Christianity.
00:53:14.040Even Islam is, you know, according to John, anti-Christ, because John says he that does not confess Christ coming in the flesh, God in flesh, is of the spirit of anti-Christ.
00:53:25.760And I mean, the biggest the biggest anti-Christian religion on the face of the planet is Islam.
00:53:29.420So I used to think like maybe 10 years ago, I didn't know a lot about Islam.
00:53:35.380I mean, I knew a lot about Christian metaphysics and theology and apologetics, but I didn't know much about Islam.
00:53:39.520And I thought, well, you know, they got a few things wrong, but they're kind of based or whatever.
00:54:08.500So by that nature, do you think would you say that Christianity is almost I think I think that Christianity is in direct conflict with Judaism?
00:54:17.260Like that's the battle that has been going on.
00:54:19.720And again, this is like this become like a JQ episode, but it kind of is.
00:54:23.500And Christianity, I don't think really is aware of that.
00:54:26.860Or maybe they're becoming aware of this.
00:54:29.360Well, the last couple of talks I did, like on the fourth hour of Alex, a couple shows back was about the deception through dispensationalism.
00:54:38.500Of the Schofield Study Bible and, you know, like Christian Zionism and all that.
00:54:44.540Yeah, I mean, that's been a tremendous, massive deception.
00:54:47.600And there's a really good case to be made that part of the reason Oxford University was so adamant about pushing the Schofield Study Bible in America was to prepare for the geopolitical moves that the British Empire had had planned out with Balfour Declaration.
00:55:04.280I mean, the Schofield Study Bible is still printed by Oxford University, which, again, makes absolutely no sense.
00:55:10.860Like Oxford University is not known for, you know, weird Christian, like it's not John Hagee type of stuff.
00:55:16.920Why are they pushing this and printing it for so long, this absurd Schofield Study Bible?
00:55:23.020Well, because it props up the very error that you're talking about.
00:55:28.280And this was like, this is the impetus of my disagreement or my hate for the Daily Wire.
00:55:33.760Despite ruin, I mean, maybe it's because they ruined my only time on TimCast.
00:55:37.300But most likely it's because they have been so subversive to the to the Christian boomer community, the Christian conservative boomer audience.
00:55:49.040And it's an op that's been so thoroughly run.
00:55:51.940Just recently, I was like arguing with Matt Walsh about the whole nine to five idea.
00:55:56.900I don't know if you saw this, but like it's to demoralize your audience in such a way.
00:56:04.060And I'm not saying like, again, I've recapped this ad notion, but like nine to five is not a bad thing.
00:56:09.260But like striving for more is is a bad thing, according to the Daily Wire.
00:56:17.180But it's also in line with almost everything else that they've been pushing.
00:56:20.020Yeah, I was I called them out a couple of weeks ago, which surprised me because that my tweet kind of went viral talking about how the thing that annoys me that they're always talking about how it's like my number one gripe with con ink, man.
00:56:35.300They're always just talking about the boobs in Washington and we're run by idiots.
00:56:39.540And it's like, no, they were run by cunning, technocratic psychopaths like Brzezinski, Kissinger.
00:57:18.100The last one I seen where he said another four years pause and then they chant afterward.
00:57:23.820I'm like, this is like I'm distressed at this point.
00:57:27.260It's almost like they're psychologically torturing me, like telling us that we know like we know, you know, that like he's not running this shit.
00:59:05.340And if you take into consideration the idea that the entire counterculture revolution was manufactured, or at least co-opted soon after its inception and then steered by these intelligence agencies.
00:59:15.700The people that are running these experiments that are subjecting these Johns, right, to LSD and all these different things, for sure, they have to be getting these patterns back.
00:59:26.220Like, oh, Moloch's been mentioned again.
00:59:32.140Like, after a while, they have to have an idea that they're communing with entities.
00:59:36.580Because how many people come back from a DMT trip or any trip, for that matter, and have communed with some sort of entity?
00:59:43.240And once you start to establish a pattern there, you can start to imagine, well, they're going somewhere and they're communicating with something, almost reliably, in the sense that we can, you know, show a pattern here.
00:59:52.400So, a lot of the times I would think to myself, what benefit do the intelligence agencies have?
00:59:58.860And I'm sure there's many, because it's never just one thing.
01:00:03.780What benefit do they have by pushing this drug culture?
01:00:08.280You know, if you're talking about the crack epidemic, that one's pretty cut and dry with, you know, destroying the family unit in the black communities and funding the Iran-Contra wars, all these different things.
01:00:19.520But with the LSD movement, to even entertain for a moment that they were fucking bringing Moloch into this dimension, that they were giving this entity enough energy from enough encounters with people, that eventually they would bring back into this reality, to some sense, an Old Testament deity that the Canaanites worshipped, is fucking, I don't want to have this be taken the wrong way.
01:00:53.880And to be precise, although you actually could be on to something that I had thought about, which is a lot of these dudes, like the beat poets and these sort of counterculture figures, they actually did have fed ties quite a bit.
01:01:06.860But I don't know if Ginsburg himself did, but I would not be surprised.
01:01:10.840But according to him, like he was just like, no, I'm doing this on my own to, you know, be a wild man and, you know, I'm going to go back to being a, to nature and, you know, being a not part of your civilization, dude.
01:01:25.100I mean, yeah, pretty much, but I wouldn't be surprised given how many of the other characters like Tim Leary and even perhaps McKenna, you know, they had fed ties.
01:01:36.120In fact, Leary, there's a clip because you'll find it on YouTube where he says you can, you can trace the entire count of 60s counterculture to the CIA.
01:01:42.900He's like, if you like it, you can thank the CIA for that.
01:01:45.820So why the LSD for the, the, the emerging white kids and not, I think that they probably did a lot of experimentation about which drugs worked best for which types of people or groups of people.
01:02:01.980Um, Huxley said, and a lot of his research, when he was talking about experimenting with LSD before they released it to, you know, the, the white, uh, kids in the West was that it had the ability to break down all of your boundaries, uh, and kind of, um, change, uh, it's, it's a drug that radically changes a person in many cases.
01:02:27.020Not discernment or not discernment in the sense of like spiritual discernment, but you're otherwise being closed off from people guarded from people.
01:02:35.220Yeah. Like, like a person, like they would talk about how persons who grew up maybe with a more of a conservative bent, uh, wanted to go to college and, you know, become a, uh, you know, accountant or whatever that after they would do these drugs, they were totally different people.
01:02:49.340So it sort of broke down all their boundaries, their sense of self or sense of connection to their family, to their nation state.
01:02:54.720We noticed that this one makes them gay and homeless.
01:19:30.620You know, it's so hard not to think that, you know, in the most conspiratorial of ways, like, were they trying to push an agenda or were they just making happy mistakes and happened to have a lot of this esoteric information and wanted to create something?
01:19:44.900Or were they trying to move culture? Because it's like, we're talking about the counterculture and the drug movement and the anti-war movement all being co-opted by these three-letter agencies and then manufactured to the great extent that they eventually were.
01:19:59.240These big influential movements over the United States, and we alluded to before, the crack epidemic of the 80s and the 90s, you know, funding the Iran-Contra wars, funneling cocaine into the hoods, destroying the family unit, essentially destroying, I'm sorry, the black family unit, and destroying black communities, like, almost permanently.
01:20:22.260And now you look at today what's going on with this whole Diddy thing, and it's like, oh, well, Diddy's been running this blackmail operation for 30 fucking years, and that blackmail operation is in hip-hop, and hip-hop has been culturally engineering.
01:20:38.340It's been the most culturally impactful movement of the last 30 years.
01:20:44.100Is that a crazy thing to say, do you think? Hip-hop, as far as the culture that it's embedded or imbued upon America, has been the most influential of any other, number one, genre of music, or fucking anything?
01:20:55.960I mean, really, hip-hop is the major driving cultural force.
01:21:00.840So it's like, you know, we're talking about these directors and whether or not they have malicious intent, and you really can't even blame people for going there, because none of our culture for the past fucking, everything's been engineered.
01:21:12.820Everything's been created and pushed on us, and you can see exactly what was done and what the ramifications of it were.
01:21:21.140And like I said, right now, we're sitting in the middle of this Diddy thing, where it's like, everybody's like, oh, Diddy was doing butt-sick stuff.
01:21:29.400Diddy was engineering the culture of the United States, him and a bunch of other people who haven't been named, right, because Diddy is this fall guy.
01:21:36.400He's just kind of the flavor of the month.
01:21:38.580What we're really saying here, guys, is that it's all a fabrication, and that the most impactful driving cultural force of the past 30 years is a fucking fabrication.
01:22:35.080I mean, one point I would say about how do we know, like, when somebody is intentionally doing this propaganda in their movies or something.
01:22:43.960I think when you look at the blockbusters, I mean, there's actual documentation of, you know, paying to have propaganda in movies that's, there's multiple books on this.
01:22:56.380I cite books in my second Hollywood book on this topic.
01:22:59.240So that we can verify 100% that, like, the blockbusters almost always have pretty high-level propaganda.
01:23:05.600More weird avant-garde stuff that could just be, you know, individual artists just influenced by weird demonic shit.
01:23:14.080Like, I remember when I was in undergrad, I had, my best friend was getting his degree in art.
01:23:21.960And at the university level, you usually have to do, like, a senior show for your art, whatever that is.
01:23:29.680And all the other artists are there as well.
01:23:33.040And at the same time, my girlfriend at the time, her sister was getting an art degree from Vanderbilt.
01:23:40.120And I remember going to both of these.
01:23:42.400And what the weird part was that, I mean, obviously none of these people knew each other or anything like that.
01:23:46.240But all of the undergraduate artists in there, it doesn't matter what medium it was, whether it was photography, whether it was, like, you know, pencil sketch, or whether it was painting or whatever.
01:24:47.740So, those people aren't intentionally, you know, part of some CIA plan.
01:24:53.560They're just influenced by demonic spirits to put out, you know, like, just awful, disgusting art.
01:25:00.460And I think the same thing goes on with, you know, people who are influenced by these powers, these spirits in most arts, music as well.
01:25:10.500And then at a high level, when you get to, like, the big blockbusters, that's when they're like, okay, we need to intentionally put in the propaganda of, you know, Skittle stuff, you know, anti this country.
01:25:21.320We need to go to war with this country.
01:25:22.760I mean, they've been doing that, you know, warfare propaganda forever in movies.
01:25:26.440So, tomorrow we're actually talking to Ed Mabry again, and I was re-listening to our last episode with him, and we were talking about, like, he said he doesn't believe a Christian can be, like, inhabited or possessed because you're filled with, you're already filled with the spirit.
01:25:47.220So, and I tend to agree with that, but you were saying, why would this person in art school want to create something that is glorifying, basically, a demon?
01:25:59.880And they don't know, well, they're not filled with anything else, so they're kind of an empty vessel for this to pass through and manifest itself in this way.
01:26:07.540And it's interesting talking about the arts.
01:26:09.300So, we had Arthur Kwan Lee on last week.
01:26:11.560Oh, yeah, yeah, we're buddies, we chat.
01:26:13.720Yeah, his reaction, or the reaction to his artwork, not surprising, but still eye-opening in that world.
01:26:23.300I've got my wife's, they're famous artists, so I've heard from them, and I've seen, like, what that art world in New York City looks like.
01:26:53.500I don't, I can't speculate as to what was going on with him, but another uncle that I speak to a lot, he keeps arm's distance away from this, and he's just, you know, he's an artist, and this is how he makes his money.
01:27:04.640But, uh, it's, it's not a good place to be.
01:27:08.580You know, it's the industry right now, because you have, you know, your uncle and, and, uh, Arthur Kwan Lee, it's like, real talents, um, but the industry doesn't want them.
01:27:31.320And, to go back to the hip-hop thing, you can see the exact same thing mirrored there, where there has been a real degradation in the quality of hip-hop.
01:27:41.680There's always been a question as to whether or not, uh, poetry over beats was a real, uh, accomplishment.
01:27:47.740You know, you're removing instruments and things of that nature, but, I mean, people like Kanye West, who fell the fuck off.
01:28:23.300But, um, that tells you pretty much all you need to know where hip-hop has reached such a state that the only thing that is important, which it's taken the mask off, is the messaging.
01:28:35.080And in order for you to push such a blatant message, it is a prerequisite that you are not talented.
01:28:42.580Because if you're talented, you can, you can diverge and you can go, no, fuck this.
01:28:47.160But if you are some completely talentless, you know, uh, mumble rapper, well, then you depend on the people that are backing you in order for you to stay relevant.
01:28:59.300And so in order for that, uh, sort of deal to be made, you have to push that agenda, whatever it is.
01:29:05.920And we've gotten to the point where it's so obvious that hip-hop is no longer, the art is no longer a reflection of the culture, but the culture is a reflection of the art.
01:29:16.620And if, if the art is leading the way, look at what they're pushing now.
01:29:20.640I mean, it's like, it's completely debaucherous, worst of the worst shit.
01:29:25.320But, and, and if you do believe that, that engineer, you know, hip-hop is engineering much more than just the black community now, look what they're trying to turn you into.
01:29:34.660They're trying to turn you into a face tattooed, debaucherous, fucking demonic little retard.