On this week's episode of Nedeal's Death Squad, we revisit an old episode of the Dave Smith Vs. Douglas K. Murray debate. It's a throwback to a time when Dave and K.K. Murray debated on a variety of topics, including whether or not the plant-based diet is better than the carnivore diet.
01:01:39.820It's just like where I'm at today in my life.
01:01:42.960We live under the biggest government in the history of the world and we're on the verge of World War III and they're doing all types of experiments with our society that seem to be trial balloons for like some real deal
01:01:54.300Maoist nightmare coming up in the future.
01:01:57.420And if you're telling me about incest law, if government was reduced down to like laws against incest, I'm just like, yeah, guys, I'm not in this fight anymore.
01:02:05.900I wouldn't I wouldn't be a libertarian and go like, I got to fight to make sure this incest law is repealed.
01:02:11.560So if that's the thing you want to go to in your debate, fine, whatever.
01:02:23.720Now, in terms of the libertarian party, obviously, that's that's a different situation.
01:02:29.260And I I think I'm still at where I said I was on my show after the convention, which is kind of that.
01:02:35.900I'm kind of taking a step back and reassessing and just thinking, what are my best, you know, like what's my time best spent?
01:02:44.240Look, the Mises Caucus was always and this is the truth.
01:02:48.580It was always a passion project for me, a cause I believed in.
01:02:52.420It wasn't something that was like, this is where I can get the most bang for my buck or anything like that.
01:02:57.520There was nothing really in it for me other than trying to lead this fucking thing.
01:03:02.180And then, you know, when I decided not to run, I kind of had let down a lot of people who were there because I had like kind of led them into it.
01:03:11.520And so then I I still feel some type of obligation to those people.
01:03:17.260But I also have an obligation to tell the truth to my audience.
01:05:58.880I think it's probably much more of a comment on what bureaucracy leads to or what a political party leads to than what like actually implemented libertarianism leads to.
01:06:11.040Dude, there's a if you want to get down on the LP, there's a bunch of articles that Murray Rothbard wrote in like 89 and 90 about the Libertarian Party, like as he was leaving it.
01:06:25.820And I will say it's a it's shocking how much of that still applies.
01:06:31.040Now, my look, my gamble here for a while with the LP when I was planning on running and I still look, there's a thing where like, look, for all those guys who were like critics of the LP strategy and all of that.
01:06:44.880Look, I again, it's kind of like you can take your victory lap if you want to.
01:06:49.020The thing has has ended up with Chase being the nominee.
01:06:53.640But what changed was me deciding not to run and the the gamble that I was making was like, yeah, I've read all that Rothbard shit.
01:07:02.360I get all your criticisms of the party, but I'm in this unique position where I have a bigger audience than the entire party apparatus put together.
01:07:13.400And if I'm the guy running, then I will be able to control what the messaging is that represents libertarianism.
01:07:18.400And so I think we could have overcome a lot of these problems.
01:07:22.360The flaw in the strategy was that I ended up not being able to do it.
01:07:27.260But anyway, one of the things Rothbard talks about was how the liberty movement in general and he broke it up into two broad categories that he called he called rednecks and yuppies.
01:07:59.280Look, if you're talking about like implementing just in theory, like you could snap your fingers and you implemented like laissez-faire free markets in the country or something like that.
01:08:08.880It's no, you're not just doing that for weirdos who are at the LP.
01:08:11.880You're doing that for all of blue collar America.
01:08:15.700And like that's so no, I don't think that in any sense the convention or the the gayness of the convention that you're kind of getting at is is like that's what libertarian policies lead to.
01:08:29.860And it's very disheartening as somebody who top he shows me what libertarianism is.
01:08:42.320Well, and I look at the people that are involved with it and I'm like, oh, these are people that, you know, you could admire.
01:08:47.380And and it's very much like meeting someone and being like, oh, no, they're they're retarded.
01:08:52.380Like I was brought to this entire convention and I'd looked around at these people and then I looked at the way that it ended and I went, that's strange.
01:09:02.400There's the side of this goofy side that you see.
01:09:04.180And that's really fun to dunk on and talk shit about.
01:09:05.940But then there's the side of, like, if this actually does work, what the values actually are.
01:09:11.020I understand that the people aren't a reflection of the the the principles themselves are not that they're separated from the people who show up, the goofy assholes who show up or the people who are.
01:09:24.260There's just there's a separation between like, say, an idea, like the belief in a set of policies and then the people who are attracted to that belief in a set of policies.
01:09:38.780Look, dude, I bet like abolitionists during slavery had like some real goofball characters in there, because when you're taking a position like in 1845, when like one percent of the country supported abolishing slavery, who the fuck is going to be the crazy enough person to go along with that one percent of people?
01:09:55.180You're going to get like some wild types of characters.
01:09:58.240Look at even like a like Norman Finkelstein or someone like that, who's like so great on the history of the Israel war.
01:10:04.940But he's like clearly like a very bizarre guy.
01:10:07.860Like, who do you have to be to be the Jew who stands up and goes like in the 70s, stood up and was like, no, you know what I mean?
01:10:15.260Like, this is a colonial power, Israel.
01:10:35.000This is my point, though, is that you're going to attract you're going to attract people that want to be left alone to live a very honorable moral lifestyle.
01:10:41.160And then you're going to attract a bunch of fucking degenerate lunatics that just want to be left alone so that they can be as perverse as possible.
01:11:01.940I think if they're listening to us, then then you already know that their morals are not in the degenerate lane that they're like they're not they're not there because they want to, you know, do drugs and then, you know, traffic children.
01:11:13.220They're there because they're listening to us like that.
01:11:15.440I don't I don't see how you would get that from listening to Dave or I'll just go like jump.
01:11:31.800This is very important when we're talking about if we're having freedom or not.
01:11:36.000Well, yeah, I mean, I I certainly don't disagree with that.
01:11:39.220That's why I've made my feelings on abortion very clear.
01:11:41.600And so, like, look, if your argument is that somebody who's a pro-choice libertarian is still like basically really horrible on this very important issue, I don't disagree with that.
01:11:54.180Like, I think, yeah, I think abortion is particularly like there there are exceptional cases of abortion that are like really crazy situations like where the baby is very sick or something like that.
01:12:49.280This is like, you know, the government, the government education system.
01:12:52.380I mean, that's that is kind of I mean, you're talking about a government funded organization.
01:12:57.160So I'd say that's at least part of it.
01:13:00.040You know, I think there's also a thing with a lot of libertarians, particularly the more left leaning libertarians, where there's also a weird thing when we don't live in a libertarian society and all of these things exist.
01:13:13.500It's very easy for them to say they're libertarians.
01:13:15.860Like, yeah, I believe that no tax dollars should go to Planned Parenthood, but I still believe in the right to do it.
01:13:19.980But but that's also because they have the luxury of like having a Planned Parenthood that does have tax dollars go to it.
01:13:24.940And you wonder if that society were to actually be brought about, how many of them would still be ideologically libertarians or like how many of them would then at that point, you know, like if welfare was actually gone in all of its forms, would you still be just advocating for it?
01:13:40.380Or would you maybe lose your principles and start advocating it returns?
01:13:44.140Because I think like many of us know, that's one of the problems with the degeneracy in the libertarian movement is it's almost like I feel like libertarianism is the solution to their problem.
01:13:54.120Like, OK, see how that's going to work out under a real free market conditions.
01:14:25.700That's no more libertarian or less libertarian than any festival that you go to.
01:14:29.800And if you go to a festival, you could go to Skankfest or you could go to Porkfest or you could go to an Amish festival.
01:14:36.280Or you could go to like some Christian festival or whatever.
01:14:39.400It's like there's that's and they're all equally libertarian.
01:14:42.840I mean, in the sense that there's a government and stuff like that, and they're still just organizing like voluntarily.
01:14:47.880So I don't think that that's I think what the libertarian outcome, the point I was getting, which I think kind of contradicts your point, is that I actually think that the the absence of a welfare state and the absence of like overreaching government is going to do more to put out the flame of degeneracy than almost any other policy.
01:15:09.620Short of, you know, like real deal authoritarian policies, which are kind of popular to flirt with amongst like reactionary groups.
01:15:19.720But you also really wouldn't want to live under under those.
01:15:23.200You really don't want to live under a North Korea type system or a Nazi type system.
01:15:27.540It's really like even as bad as what we have right now is there is worse.
01:16:50.520I don't know how much Jeff Deist talks about any of this stuff, but I don't.
01:16:54.220I think I think it should be talked about more because the brand of libertarianism that Ron Paul is going to present to you is going to be vastly different than one of, I don't know, like Walter Block.
01:17:05.660And then there's that question of, well, what's missing?
01:17:26.580You know, his his prescription was abolish the system that is oppressing us.
01:17:30.880And then from there, it's up to you what you create.
01:17:33.620But yes, for him personally and for all of the best libertarians I know, they were living in a moral, you know, I don't know if Christ like fashion, but certainly family oriented type of way.
01:17:57.320But the the pattern that I'm recognizing, the people that I agree with most, which would be a Ron Paul and like a Tom Woods type, they align with me on those important issues.
01:18:48.440OK, the one of the things that first started softening me on my atheism was exactly what you're talking about, that just so many of the people who I thought were like the best people were believers.
01:19:03.780And this isn't what, you know, this isn't how I found God, but it did like soften me on my atheism.
01:19:10.680It started making me, I think, like opening me up toward the possibility a little bit more and not just libertarians, just like people I know in my life were like, oh, the best people I know are like all Christian.
01:19:21.220Oh, that's kind of interesting, you know, and and some and some Jewish.
01:19:26.080But there's to your point with the LP, look, this is one of the major things that's kind of made me take a step back.
01:19:33.200And I I feel like my obligation, as always, is to be, you know, blunt and honest with my audience and that I was like, look, when when our people were 70 percent of the room, it didn't really seem to matter as much because we could just jam through whatever we wanted to.
01:19:49.260And we would pick all of the people. And it was like, OK, the freaks are kind of kept over in the corner a little bit with us being 45 percent of the room.
01:19:57.380It just didn't feel that way anymore. And it did feel like, oh, these guys like they're.
01:20:04.580I don't know, just a lot of people there who are the type of people who are never going to persuade others that there's anything serious here because you're so fundamentally unserious.
01:20:14.200And so that is that is a problem. And they're viciously upset with the people that are good at messaging their belief system, which is always a insult to injury.
01:20:22.820I mean, let's just be honest, like there is very there was very limited, if any, upside for me to be running for VP.
01:20:29.060So for Dave, there's literally negative upside, most likely because you're not going to get on any bigger platforms unless you end up on a debate stage or something like that with RFK or something crazy.
01:20:37.880So it's like the the upside for our best messengers to do that role is is negative.
01:20:46.460So it's very it's very tough to look and I'll say people to do it.
01:20:50.500And look, none of this is the reason why I didn't run.
01:20:53.960No, I know. But I'm speaking for other candidates.
01:20:55.620Sure. No, no. But I think it's a point worth making is that it's like, you know, look, that's the reality of the situation for any of the guys who you'd want to do this.
01:21:04.740And if you just say like a short list of people like me or Clint, that a lot of our guys wanted to run and people, I think, would have gotten way behind Clint running for president if he had when I had, you know, and they came to you asking you for that.
01:21:21.120That's why you can't take all the blame either, because I didn't do it and I would have wanted to.
01:21:24.600So there you go. Take a little bit off me.
01:21:27.360But like Tom Woods or Jeff Dice or like anyone like that, if you're asking them to run for president on the Libertarian Party ticket, you're asking those people to make an enormous sacrifice.
01:21:39.140That's just a factual matter. It just is what it is.
01:21:41.720It would be an enormous sacrifice for any of them to do that.
01:21:44.880Tom Woods is a wife. He's got five daughters. He's very, very successful, like a very successful entrepreneur.
01:21:51.200And you would be asking him to just make this enormous sacrifice and a sacrifice for his family.
01:21:57.180And that's true for all these guys. And then if they were to go do it, you go like, oh, yeah.
01:22:02.200And like 20 percent of the LP is going to try to ruin your life, like not even like oppose you on some issues.
01:22:10.220I'm saying literally try to ruin your life.
01:22:13.600They're going to try. Oh, and then, by the way, on top of that, at least in my experience, I can't even I can't even count on my own side.
01:22:20.680Like when the plan was to go do this, I can't count on the guys in New Hampshire to not just say, no, fuck you.
01:22:28.020We're doing what we're doing. And you go and I can't go, dude, you're making us all look awful.
01:22:32.720Just please stop doing this. Nope. They won't do that.
01:22:35.900If I have one strategy in Arizona where I think we should back this former anarchist who's Ron Paul endorsed and instead of running a libertarian for no reason to spoil it, mutiny on my hands.
01:22:47.520And so I don't like I don't completely disagree with some of the dynamics you're talking about, top.
01:22:53.560And I think there's even more than you're getting at that make this really difficult.
01:22:57.240And that's a part of why I got to take a step back now.
01:23:00.360Now that this this cycle is over and it ends with Chase as the nominee, I kind of have to reevaluate.
01:23:06.640You know, I'm the guy I am and I'm going to keep being the guy I am.
01:23:10.160If I'm going to be like, hey, look, here's what we should do, I got to make damn sure that that's the right thing to do.
01:23:17.100That being said, I don't think any of that is a is a comment on the legal theory of libertarianism, if that makes sense.
01:23:25.380All right. Can I add can I add one quick thing?
01:23:27.240Because you continue to point at this, like because libertarianism is attractive to some people that we find reprehensible.
01:23:33.960Maybe the philosophy itself is is what's flawed. And I and I take your your point seriously.
01:23:39.980I think that the the issue is that not just flawed, Clint, but I think it's close to Satanism.
01:23:45.540But go ahead. Yes, I know. And we'll get into that.
01:23:49.380But from my vantage point, libertarianism is a thin philosophy where like it's only it's only really describing how the society ought to be structured when it comes to governance.
01:24:02.100It's not about the moral framework of the people. The moral framework of the people, I think, is is ultimately like it's requisite that you have a moral people if you're going to have a sound libertarian society.
01:24:14.620So like you need both. But in terms of libertarian philosophy, for the most part, it is not it is not a a philosophy and totality of like how every single human is to think and behave and like their moral makeup.
01:24:27.120I think this is why, like, so many of the best libertarians do have a Christian background or or religious background.
01:24:33.960So I think that's that's the issue that are the pushback I wanted to give you is that, like, you're describing it as if, like, libertarianism leads to Satanism or devil worship or fucking whatever.
01:24:43.180It's like I I don't know any libertarians that do that or feel that way.
01:24:47.880I haven't seen it at the party that was collecting hair off of chairs to put whatever.
01:24:52.800No, there's no one's done. There's some crazies there.
01:24:56.100Well, listen, listen, I want to I got to stare because we're fucking 42 minutes into a show called Nephilim Death Squad.
01:25:01.120And it's time to get fucking weird because I'm going to have a stroke if we mention anything else that has to do with the libertarian party at this point.
01:25:06.300What I want to talk about is is something that I genuinely want to ask you guys, because I find you both.
01:25:13.720I find you both fascinating in the journey that you're on top.
01:25:18.080I mean, I'm sorry. Clint keeps getting this sort of Nephilim question knocking at his door.
01:25:23.560Dave, you you've come over to believing that there is a God and it was with the birth of your child, correct?
01:25:29.860How long has that been now? Five years ago, five and a half years ago, five and a half years ago.
01:25:34.440So when you see things because if there's a God, right, when you when you talk about God, you you're saying that there is a creator to this world and he's of a spiritual nature, right?
01:25:46.560He's not physically in this realm. And so somewhere in a spiritual realm, there is a force that has created this entire universe that we inhabit.
01:25:53.340Is that as far as you're willing to go? Well, yeah.
01:25:57.320Yeah. And that and that he's like one thing, like it's one God and that he wants us to be good.
01:26:10.120OK. And there's like like that. It's kind of hard to like describe or exactly put into words, but it's just like finding it.
01:26:17.600This is like the thing that you always had in your mind about God. That's real.
01:26:21.960It's a force. You know what I mean? And it's it's singular and it's completely in charge and wants us to be good people.
01:26:31.320Now, would you venture to imagine? Go ahead.
01:26:33.920That that idea. So he wants us to be good. Yeah, that's that's like what's good.
01:26:42.400I feel like I know. I think that's one of the things that really that really kind of opened me up to it was that it was like this very weird.
01:26:51.960feeling that like I know what he wants from me. If you saw I believe that honorable and like to do honorable.
01:26:57.940Yeah. Well, I mean, I could give you very specific things, but it's like the if you're ever when you're at your lowest point and you start talking to God, which which anyone, any atheist included could be pushed to that point.
01:27:12.320Like they're whatever they say. There's no atheist in a foxhole or whatever that you know what I mean?
01:27:15.980Like there's your planes going down. You start believing pretty quickly.
01:27:19.660And that that in itself is kind of interesting that when the shit hits the fan, we all kind of know God exists.
01:27:26.860But also immediately you're going to start bargaining with him and you're going to find out, you know, exactly what he wants.
01:27:33.000You're going to be like, OK, I promise I'll stop doing this. I promise I'll do this.
01:27:36.080I know I got to call my mom no more. I know I got to always protect my kids.
01:27:39.280I know I'll be a good husband to my wife. I'll do it. You know what I mean?
01:27:41.920Like you you kind of find out right away that you do actually know what he wants from rock bottom does have a way of giving you clarity to choose him.
01:27:50.560This is this is the whole idea of what what I'm getting to.
01:27:52.740So God doesn't just want you to do good. He wants you to constantly choose him.
01:27:57.600And it's constantly giving consent to this or that.
01:28:01.300And the good what Dave would say is the good is just choosing God because you're kind of emulating what he would do.
01:28:06.660And the idea of liberty, right, it goes back to Adam and Eve in the garden.
01:28:13.020So you have the the accuser or the tempter that's going to tell her, well, if you if you do this, then you'll have such and such power.
01:28:21.860You'll be like God. This is like the liberty.
01:28:24.540You're given the liberty to choose. But God is constantly saying, like, no, you got to choose me.
01:28:29.000And when you're given that liberty, it seems like we always choose the apple every single time.
01:28:34.820And isn't that also part of Christian framework or theology that, like, it's it's the free will is what makes this special that you've chosen God because you had that choice.
01:28:46.180Well, it's like the love of for God means nothing if you can't choose it.
01:28:49.840Love means nothing if you can't choose it of your own free will.
01:28:53.160Then it's slavery. But if you choose it, if you choose fealty to God by by choice, then it's love.
01:28:59.140So it's almost like liberty is the temptation in this in this equation here.
01:29:04.500No, I think the temptation would be doing something, doing the wrong thing with your liberty would be the temptation.
01:29:12.440You get the choice of the ability to do that.
01:29:14.580I don't think the ability to is is evil.
01:29:17.780I mean, it's not evil in itself, but it's it's opening the door for that.
01:29:22.460And what I'm saying is that, like, like, I'm not going to call liberty evil bad like we shouldn't have that.
01:29:28.100That's crazy. What I'm saying is that you need both of these things.
01:29:31.400So you have to have the ability to choose and then you have to choose this other thing, God, because if you don't, then you end up in this spiral where we're at now.
01:29:40.320Yeah, but see, the problem with this is that when you're extrapolating things from God down to libertarianism, libertarianism is not dealing in the realm of whether God is ruling over us or he's not.
01:29:54.020It's we're dealing in the realm of whether other men are ruling over us or they're not.
01:29:58.000So even in this in this framework, when you say, oh, but it's almost like the question is, should you even have that choice?
01:30:05.320Should you even have the choice between doing good and doing bad?
01:30:07.760Because isn't liberty just giving you the option to do bad?
01:30:10.760But we would never get to be forced to do good.
01:30:14.160We'd get to be forced to do what some person with a lot of power over us has decided is right.
01:30:21.020And so you can point to examples of where people have had their liberty and chose the wrong thing.
01:30:25.740But I could also point to a lot of point examples of where the people who rule over us have had the power to make our choices for us and they've made the wrong choices.
01:30:34.800And so I still think it becomes a self-defeating argument.
01:30:38.300It's if people are so bad at making the right choice with their liberty, how are they going to do at ruling over other people with power?
01:30:49.220Right. We're still dealing with human beings.
01:30:50.900That's why that's why I kept saying to you, Top, that I think that these are complementary beliefs.
01:30:54.760It's like Christianity, I think, is very important.
01:31:00.080But I also, as someone who's more agnostic, I think that there's lessons in all the religions that are kind of universal that I think are really beautiful.
01:31:07.680And they tie together and they ultimately create people that might function better in a libertarian framework.
01:31:13.640But I think that the libertarian framework isn't addressing the religious aspects of society.
01:31:18.760And that's why I don't think it's fair to blame liberty itself for the downfall of America or any other nation.
01:31:26.160In fact, I think that quite the opposite, that it's the decrease of liberty and the accumulation of power at the top of the structure that has ultimately deteriorated down below.
01:31:37.160Well, that's my view of things. But what do you think?
01:31:40.480You know, it makes a lot of sense. But the symbology that's all surrounded by liberty really gives me pause.
01:31:48.260And I know this is where you jump off, Dave. But when I'm looking around in current society or even old society, there's symbols everywhere.
01:31:57.120And they're kind of telling you their agenda. You'll see pedophile symbols. You'll see this and that.
01:32:02.880But Dave, you want to take this from here?
01:32:04.860Well, look, I don't necessarily want to go there yet because I was trying to get to a point with this line of questioning with with Dave.
01:32:13.380Dave, we talked earlier, you spoke earlier about how there is this flip side of the coin, right, that there's there's sort of a light in a darkness and people will sort of align themselves with God and then fight this this evil.
01:32:29.680Right. And I would say that there is a law of opposites.
01:32:32.760Do you think that it is a fair thing to assume that if there is a God, which is already where you stand from, then there would be something that is an opposition to him?
01:32:42.580And since he is at least as far as you're willing to concede, which I think is fair.
01:32:48.520Since he is a spiritual entity that has created this entire realm that we inhabit, then the force and opposition to him may also be of a spiritual nature as real as God.
01:33:00.400Sure. Well, I think one of the things that when you find God or if you if you were always a believer or whatever, you do you all of a sudden have to look at the whole world in kind of a different way.
01:33:16.200And sometimes that doesn't exactly dawn on you right away.
01:33:18.840But a lot of times you realize that the gaps between what is scientific and what is spiritual are kind of artificial themselves.
01:33:27.560There's a lot of things that we just have words for that we the words don't even really mean anything.
01:34:15.300But I feel like it because I use it every day.
01:34:16.880But so, yeah, we give it a word like idea and then when you live in our very reductionist kind of secular post God world, it's easy to say, oh, no, we know the scientific answer for that.
01:35:31.140Like there's people live in living hells.
01:35:33.600We've all known people who put themselves into a living hell because they just do all the wrong things.
01:35:38.820And like, you know, like, and so like anybody who's ever suffered or felt depressed or anything like that, you know, yeah, there's darkness in this world.
01:36:00.260So, yeah, I'm so I'm growing more and more.
01:36:04.020I'll just say this real quickly at the end.
01:36:05.840I'm growing more and more comfortable with like as a young atheist, I would have been more comfortable with like dark forces rather than evil spirits.
01:36:14.960The older I get, the more I find something about the evil spirits more attractive because you're like, at least they're throwing themselves on the mercy of like we can't know what it is because it's the spiritual force outside of us.
01:36:27.580Whereas the like dark forces, atheist guides, like you're just trying to pretend you know what this is, but it's just as much of a mystery to you.
01:36:38.020Before you go, I got I got to just say one quick thing.
01:36:40.540The reason I try not to go towards the good and evil path, particularly when it comes to analysis of human beings, is that I have known too many people that have participated in evil that I don't think are.
01:36:52.220And I think that if you if you blanket like just label everybody that supports, you know, X war evil, you know, like because what they're in what they're supporting is evil.
01:37:03.360But like I still recognize that there are forces that are acting upon them that ultimately could lead them astray.
01:37:09.860And should I should I condemn them as a human being forever because of that wrong decision?
01:37:15.540And I think that oftentimes that's a big, big, big mistake.
01:37:19.000Which ironically is a very Christian thing to say.
01:37:21.240I think it's a little bit of a scapegoat, though, because you're alluding to like some of these people.
01:37:25.980Let's say that they're choosing the Israel side.
01:37:29.560They're like, oh, we got to finish off all those Palestinians.
01:37:31.900You're saying that maybe they have like monetary pressures or social pressures or maybe it's just like, I don't know, maybe it's just something kind of evil on there.
01:37:53.780I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, and I lived in Manhattan my whole life.
01:37:57.140I know lots of like really good Jewish people like there.
01:38:01.040Lots of them probably support Israel just because they've kind of been propagandized to do it their whole life.
01:38:06.440And it's easy to say, oh, no, they're all evil if they're on the wrong side of this issue.
01:38:11.000But the truth is that, you know, like almost every one of those people who, you know, would would be like, no, that's no excuse or whatever.
01:38:19.080All the like like the popular like blame the Jews for everything crowd.
01:38:24.980I mean, all the people who they love, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a little bit older.
01:38:29.440It was only 20 years ago that every single one of them was telling you, if you didn't know that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, that's because you are a homo and you fucking hate America and blah, blah, blah.
01:38:40.640And they told it's like the amount of evil that I've seen every little nook and cranny in this country be propagandized into.
01:38:52.100That's not to say when you have a conflict like the one in Israel, it will also draw in some fucking sociopaths who are really rooting for blood.
01:38:59.220Let's not say the one in Israel because, all right, I understand what you're getting.
01:39:01.880That's not that's not at all what I was getting at the JQ or whatever we're talking about here.
01:39:06.160Let's let's just say like trans and kids.
01:39:08.700There's people who full out support that they're not being monetarily supported.
01:39:12.900There's something going on or maybe even like your detractors in the LP.
01:39:17.600The ones that would ruin your life over an ideology.
01:39:19.720When you look at them in the face and you see their eyes and you go, is this like a person in there?
01:39:28.960What I was trying to get to is when you see this, because I think after 2020, nobody can be really in denial anymore.
01:39:36.920This overwhelming backdrop, especially to Western society in all sorts of things.
01:39:42.320If you want to talk about geopolitically, you have Zelensky trying to make Marina Mbromovich, who's an overt Satanist, who who who is an artist who takes pictures in mock baby corpses.
01:39:57.020He's trying to make her the ambassador of education to Ukraine.
01:40:00.460Within politics, there is an overt Luciferian element that pops its head up every once in a while over in the sense in comparison to what we would maybe have seen 20, 30 years ago.
01:40:12.360Certainly within the music industry, within American culture, there is an element of Luciferianism.
01:40:19.000You have this strange thing popping up over and over again.
01:40:22.060We talk about it ad nauseum on this show when Hillary Clinton's emails leak and she's talking about, you know, where is the resurrection chamber of Gilgamesh and the location of the buried Nephilim.
01:40:32.920There is this biblical and also Luciferian, which is redundant in a lot of ways, element biblical.
01:40:41.960There's like, you know, this spans across all ancient texts.
01:40:46.520But my question is, Dave, when you when you come to this realization, and I'm sure it's it's not a light one to say that God exists.
01:40:53.860And I'm sure that since it came about in such a profound way with the birth of your child, you seemingly were already kind of on the path there.
01:41:28.380And the fact that it's so fleshed out in such a kind of a cliche way, like you'll see Sam Smith now and he's he's out there all gay with the gay devil outfit on.
01:41:39.340And and that's real fun to look at and be like, oh, this is like a show.
01:41:43.500This is a word that's thrown around a lot.
01:41:44.900But then there's a lot of other things that are just kind of, I don't know, spooky, kind of give you a pause like you really did that shit.
01:41:51.360And there I will agree there are spooky things that are, yeah, way more dominant in our culture than ever before.
01:41:59.480And the trans kid thing is probably right at the top of the list of that.
01:42:05.280And then there's also just a lot of how crazy there's almost this weird, you know, you kind of get in touch with this when you do stand up comedy is there's a weird thing where like.
01:42:20.000It's an interesting like task to have to draw a laugh out of a room full of people.
01:42:26.400It's not it's different than just saying something that they think is funny.
01:42:29.560Like there's a way you could say something that people might think is funny, but it's not going to get like an audible laugh.
01:42:36.020And part of comedy is not just coming up with like a funny joke.
01:42:39.460It's also like figuring out the language of how to present this in the way that will draw the biggest laugh.
01:42:45.660And it's kind of like a trance like dynamic where you have to like kind of draw this thing out of people.
01:42:54.340Well, you know, there's some element to that.
01:42:57.340Look, there's something to if you watch there's certain comedians who it's it's probably more clear to watch with.
01:43:02.540If you watch Nate Bargetsy do stand up or if you watch Shane Gillis do stand up, those guys are like drawing you into their world.
01:43:13.340Like every the way they talk, the cadence of it in a way that they're not even intending on doing, I think, to some degree.
01:43:19.540It's why they're so naturally good at stand up comedy because they're just they draw you into their world.
01:43:24.220They like put you in this trance or you're just and it's I think in the comedic world, it's a beautiful thing.
01:43:31.320But there's the ability that the kind of ruling elite have had to put our society in a trance, you know, where it's like, OK, you're all 15 days to flatten the curve.
01:43:44.120If everyone repeat after me and they all repeat, we're all in this together, we're all in this together.
01:44:03.700This is not what society was like when I was a kid.
01:44:06.600And so something in that realm has exploded.
01:44:09.820And I do think they're almost all of the policies, whether you're talking about the covid stuff, the trans and the kids stuff, the wars, all of it.
01:44:17.460It's all so outrageously evil that it's hard.
01:44:21.720It's hard to not wonder about some of these things.
01:44:24.640When you sacrifice a couple million babies to Moloch, do you think his power grows or does it just like is this just something fun we do?
01:44:30.880And I'm saying that like fucking really seriously.
01:44:34.300What are you doing when you have when you have a war in Ukraine where you're now down to recruiting retarded people because they're just basically getting slaughtered there?
01:45:58.560I think like there is something to be said for, well, we have caused and created so much harm over the world.
01:46:04.300It's not just blowback in terms of terrorist attacks.
01:46:07.200It's also like blowback on our souls, on our spirit.
01:46:10.000It usually is the it's usually reflected in our economy.
01:46:12.800But it's the John Quincy Adams quote where he goes, if we go around the world looking for monsters to slay, we will become the dickatrice of the world.
01:46:28.060And it is just like, isn't that exactly what happened?
01:46:31.040And there is some weird collective sense to it, dude.
01:46:33.500I mean, it's crazy that the counterculture revolution, the whole real disintegration of traditional norms in this country came during the Vietnam War.
01:46:41.940It was like there's there's a huge connection there.
01:46:45.100Like there's not that is not a coincidence.
01:46:47.280The counterculture is more is more America first.
01:47:06.720Because historically speaking, countercultures, as soon as they show any promise, are almost immediately co-opted by some sort of intelligence agency and then steered for the worse of the culture.
01:47:17.360But I don't believe you can do that with God.
01:47:20.820I don't think you can do that with Christ.
01:47:27.400Look at the evangelical churches in this country, dude.
01:47:30.040I mean, they've been about as co-opted.
01:47:32.440What I would say, then, is what a true strict adherence to biblical Christianity would be.
01:47:39.480Now you're doing the no true Scotsman thing, dude.
01:47:41.880It's like just the – look, I'm just saying that the idea that, oh, if you believe in Jesus now, you're going to be immune to this whole thing.
01:47:52.100That's very valid, and so what I would like to say is when we're talking about this darkness versus evil spirits thing, I think it's very important to study and define what these evil spirits are because they are evil spirits.
01:48:07.020You can't go at this half-baked, right?
01:48:08.960There is clearly a concerted force within some massive influential force in America that believes in this, that is defined in it, that is worshiping Moloch, that knows the spirits and the demons.
01:48:25.520And these motherfuckers are in control of a lot more than I think people are comfortable saying.
01:48:29.840If they are that willing to define things and understand things, it is beholden upon us to define and understand those things because if not, we're half-baked and we're going at things too soft.
01:48:41.500This is – we're engaged in spiritual warfare.
01:48:45.780I say, what do you think about Gilgamesh and the Resurrection Chamber and Hillary Clinton does this?
01:48:50.220What do we think about the fucking temples that are on Epstein's island and the fact that he's sacrificing kids and all we're talking about is 16-year-olds giving him back rubs, right?
01:48:58.180What do you think about the fact that Hollywood is inundating us with, like, really strange, esoteric, but occultly true subliminal messaging constantly?
01:49:49.660Whatever tenacity I was previously applying to the other study that I was interested in should now be applied to understanding this.
01:49:57.120And the more you understand it, the more you start to realize, yeah, there is dark spirits or dark forces, and I need to understand this shit definitively.
01:50:05.800I think it's not by accident that the West has been stripped entirely of our understanding of the spiritual realm.
01:50:49.160There's something about the word truth, too, or just the idea of truth.
01:50:52.540And Dave knows with stand-up comedy, it's only funny because it's true.
01:50:56.620When you say it, it's true, and other people go, oh, and like you tickle their inside or whatever, and then they make a mouth noise because you've kind of manipulated them with this true thing.
01:51:06.280And isn't it interesting that Western culture right now has stripped us of that relationship and removed the idea of an objective truth?
01:51:15.000That now there are multiple truths, and this is a culturally significant phenomenon.
01:51:19.300Well, your truth is what's true to you, and it's valid.
01:51:26.100And I think that even that, the removal of your relationship with truth and the fact that truth is subjective from one person to another is also by design.
01:51:35.360If Tucker Carlson thinks that we've been stripped of our understanding of the spiritual realm by design, I would say we've been stripped of our relationship with the truth by design.
01:51:44.240But the reason I ask that is because it seems like the implications of Top even wanting this conversation to begin with is that we aren't ultimately pointing our audience to God, to Jesus Christ.
01:51:54.800And therefore, even your post about this said, I just want to know where this is going.
01:52:00.360Well, from my vantage point, I'm going towards the truth.
01:52:03.580Just because I don't know that Jesus Christ is king, and that that is your truth, and maybe that's where I end up.
01:52:34.660So your concerns about what Dave and I are doing, I think, are misguided because I think that Dave and I are both headed towards the truth.
01:52:43.080I also think that because we kind of entered the Libertarian Party and had the whole takeover of the thing, and it was the plan of running me for president and all that stuff, it's almost like sometimes people misunderstood what I tried to be very clear about the whole time,
01:53:00.560which is that there's almost like there's this realm of telling the truth, and then there's this realm of having some type of political strategy, and this is how we're going to gain power, and this is how we're going to use the levers of power.
01:53:17.440The whole thing with the Libertarian, the whole thing even when I was considering and planning on running for president was that, oh, it'll just be like a big giant speaking tour.
01:53:24.620We'll throw like a big, huge, giant truth-telling speaking tour.
01:53:37.140I just went on a long rant about this on my podcast, but I posted the other day this thing, a tweet that kind of like went viral where I said Thomas Massey is more America first than Donald Trump will ever be or something like that.
01:53:47.540Those type of short, provocative tweets always get a lot of fucking attention.
01:53:51.760But I just said it because I saw him telling the truth about Israel on Tucker's show, and then I saw Trump lying about Israel on some interview, and I was like, fucking Thomas Massey is more American.
01:54:03.440And there were so many people, like Trump supporters, who responded like, why would you say this?
02:15:02.360And while he's pulling that up, I think somebody in the chat said it.
02:15:04.900It is clear that the point that we're at right now as a culture, once again, not posing a solution.
02:15:13.740Maybe there are there is one, but it is very clear that tolerance is what's gotten us to this point.
02:15:20.540In other words, this idea of like live and let live as long as you're not being hurt by another person seemingly is is virtuous until you realize that the immediate threat of violence isn't the only threat to a culture.
02:15:34.040And maybe, in fact, subversive ideologies are much more of a threat to a culture.
02:15:39.200Well, here's here's the now we're sitting in a place where that that kind of ideology has gotten us here.
02:15:43.640Here's the important thing to note about that, though.
02:15:45.560When when I hear people on the right talking about, you know, basically getting rid of tolerance and cracking down on all this shit, you guys need to realize you have no power.
02:15:54.440You have no political power whatsoever to actually implement what you're talking about.
02:15:58.120So every single ounce of power that you give the state at this point is going to be used to just crush you.
02:16:04.000So this is the reason I'm in the persuasion.
02:16:08.200I'd say I like I agree with what Clint said, but I actually I do at least to a large percent say I like 90 percent reject your premise.
02:16:18.460About like 10 percent of it, I think, is is maybe true.
02:16:21.020But I think that when people say which is this is a very popular kind of like view on the the the hard right that's critical of libertarians, that tolerance really is what allowed us to get to this place.
02:16:34.600But I don't really think that's 100 percent true.
02:16:37.920In fact, that wasn't even really the problem.
02:16:40.440I mean, first of all, the the spirit certainly was not tolerance, not in any like classical liberal sense of the word or something like that.
02:16:48.940It wasn't that the message was ever we must just be tolerant of other people's choices.
02:16:53.760It was full blown acceptance wrapped in like civil rights, like neo civil rights language.
02:17:01.580It was victim groups are owed something by the oppressors and the oppressors are anyone succeeding.
02:17:06.760It was like a demonization of the normal, the successful, the traditional and this this justification that you owed something to what they are, marginalized groups or whatever the hell they did.
02:17:19.820But that always starts off that always starts off as this plea for tolerance.
02:17:58.360But let me just I just want to, like, continue on the point for a second because I do think it's somewhat of a fallacy to say that, like, this thing happened before this thing.
02:18:10.640Therefore, thing number one caused thing number two.
02:18:14.940Like, the fact that that followed doesn't necessarily mean it was destined to follow or, like, at least that doesn't prove the point that it was.
02:18:28.300I'm saying that, like, the problem came in when we had, like, it wasn't just preaching tolerance and it became this other thing that was that.
02:18:37.940And then the real problem came in when the entire power structure got behind it.
02:18:43.300I mean, like, that's really what happened here is that it started in the universities, then the entire corporate media, the entire political class in Hollywood and all of them started pushing all of this stuff.
02:19:22.720OK, there was one time Gene Epstein said on the Tom Woods show, this was way back in the day, where Tom asked him, and I love Gene Epstein, by the way.
02:19:30.260I've just come to disagree with him on this point.
02:19:32.880Tom asked him if there was a secondary value to libertarianism aside from non-aggression, what would the next value be?
02:19:44.140He was like, look, if people are going to be free, we have to tolerate that people live different lifestyles.
02:19:47.380I've kind of come to feel more and more that intolerance is the complementary, like, view, because you just – if you're not going to have the government regulating destructive degenerate behavior, then you have to have other forces to do that.
02:20:03.920And so I do think that there are certain things that shouldn't be tolerated, and I don't mean by that not allowed or using violence to shut it down.
02:20:12.900But I do think that, yes, there is – 10 percent of that is true, that it is crazy that we ever tolerated things moving anywhere near the direction.
02:20:22.320I don't know exactly what the point should have been.
02:20:25.100Like, I don't know if gay marriage is the point where we should have, like, had a problem with that.
02:20:29.120But I don't see – there seems to be a force that will always –
02:21:10.660Yeah, and he's saying that at that point it's too late.
02:21:12.860Look, the reason I – David, I understand that you were not talking politics.
02:21:16.200The reason I took it to the politics level is because – exactly what David was describing.
02:21:20.100The entire power structure decided to propagate this narrative and to push it into every aspect of our lives.
02:21:26.080Without – like, the reason that you need politics and power to fight this to some extent is because power and politics is the reason that this is transpiring.
02:21:35.080It's not just because gay people were allowed to get married.
02:21:38.840All of Hollywood is telling you to do it because the entire public education system is telling these kids that this is the way to live, and if you're not living this way, you're a bigot, and ultimately you probably ought to be gay or trans because otherwise you're part of the oppressor class.
02:21:50.220This is a sick ideology that's pervasive across the board on all levels.
02:21:53.740So you've got to fight it on all levels.
02:21:55.920These kind of things don't work on a populace that's not willing to accept it, and that's kind of like what I wanted to talk about here today, the idea of tolerance, the idea of God.
02:22:05.020If we got this, Owen Benjamin would say, you get the government that you deserve, and he's kind of right.
02:22:09.860So the shit that we're complaining about –
02:22:11.660If we had a culture that we could inject God back into, then it doesn't matter what corporation is knocking at your door trying to serve you up Satanism.
02:22:22.780First off, I just completely reject that, and I think it might sound nice as a slogan, but I think it's actually pretty vapid, and I don't know what –
02:22:32.560I don't think the North Koreans deserve their government.
02:22:35.520I don't think Gaza deserves to be ruled by Egypt – I mean by Israel.
02:22:39.980I just – I don't think any of that is exactly right.
02:22:43.100I do think that it's like, yes, maybe a more accurate thing would be something like you get the government that you're either powerless to prevent or too complicit to be willing to give your life to try to fight and stop.
02:22:58.900I mean it's like the truth of the matter is actually doesn't fit onto a neat little slogan like that.
02:23:03.520But that's a fallacy to say – we're not saying that the North Korean people deserve this government.
02:23:07.960But you get the government you deserve.
02:24:09.240And that's like the – that's a huge component to all of this.
02:24:13.080And I also do – which I know I'm sure you guys have heard me say before, but I just – I think that like, you know, governments rely on propaganda.
02:24:20.760They rely on force as well, but they also heavily rely on propaganda.
02:24:25.280Like they have to cast a spell on their people.
02:24:28.100And we're at this unique time in history when we have a fighting shot to fight back against that propaganda and to try to wake more people up just as all four of us have been woken up to a lot of shit that we were asleep to at a certain point.
02:24:43.460And, you know, there's – it's pretty wild.
02:24:47.380You know, like you guys were kind of saying before, like some of the stuff like me and Clint have been able to do here.
02:24:52.580It's kind of like, yeah, this is a little bit nutty.
02:24:55.000Like it's crazy that you can actually get on such big platforms and do – and look, it's not like – look, it's just the sum total of everything I've done has, you know, on the national scale, moved the needle the tiniest little bit.
02:25:12.100But it's not like I haven't gotten a little crack at it.
02:25:15.680And so it's like, oh, okay, if I could do that already, let's keep doing that.
02:25:19.240Let's try to get as many people as possible to do that.
02:25:21.740Bring it back to then is what you just said, this idea that there's this propaganda machine that's aimed at us and we're being propagandized.
02:25:32.900It's very obvious in 2024 that the propaganda machine is shoving Satanism in its multi-ways down our throat.
02:25:40.380I don't think you can – I just want to say I don't think you can fight back against a machine that is inherently satanic without God.
02:25:47.900I don't think you could do it as just men.
02:25:50.160You need to arm yourself in a different way.
02:25:52.240This is what we're coming to the realization of as we, like, study and interview more people and do more of this.
02:25:57.480But I'm incredibly proud of, like, what I've seen Clint do from being, you know, a fat woman avatar to where he's at now opening up to Trump.
02:26:10.300But, and I mean, along from working side by side with you, Dave, who you've been instrumental in almost everything that I've done in my just ability to get out of New York and basically what I'm doing with my family now.
02:26:25.160And I don't know what the point of this conversation was, whether it was – it was not really to change your mind.
02:26:30.860It's to, like, you guys are moving the needle.
02:26:33.220And I think you're moving it way more than just a little tinge.
02:26:36.820I just – you know, I'm – thank you for your time, for coming here, because I wanted to see if I can maybe add a little wrinkle to your game.
02:26:43.720If, like, if you're not thinking about this, maybe I can convince you that, like, hey, like, there's also this over here.
02:26:57.580I just hope – I hope you guys do pull this country together in some form or fashion because, really, what the fuck else are we going to do?
02:27:06.820And just know, Clint, that every single time some person with an insane level of influence mentions the Nephilim, I think about you immediately.
02:28:03.840But at the same time, the reason that I push back against these descriptions is because I genuinely love people.
02:28:10.820And I think that so many of these people that are participating in evil are still reachable.
02:28:15.060And if I didn't believe that, then it'd kind of be fruitless to be doing what I'm doing.
02:28:18.860And in fact, I know it to be true that there are millions of people that are capable of being influenced and persuaded out of evil action.
02:28:26.460So, like, I think that's the reason I'm so content in the path that I'm on is that I feel as if I am walking with God or with the truth or whatever you want to describe it as.
02:28:37.960And I see that in Dave, and I think that's part of the reason that he's so contented, not just the success and not just the reach that he's getting and the heights that he's now, you know, approaching.
02:28:47.640It's like, I think this is all indicative of, you know, being on the side of righteousness.
02:28:54.540Now, maybe that's, you know, narcissistic or egotistical to feel that way, but I feel that way.
02:29:09.180And I do think that, you know, there's something I've been saying this for a long time.
02:29:13.620And just, again, kind of in my the older I get, the more I do look at that point like that.
02:29:19.260It's kind of semantics, the dark forces, evil spirits thing, that it's all kind of like we look even from the strictest atheistic point of view, like what we've really seen.
02:29:31.740We've run an experiment in kind of like removing God from society and you see that it leads to a lot of evil.
02:29:41.820And so I do think that's like a huge component to it.
02:29:45.160But I also hope in the same sense that that top said that he hopes he kind of gave us a nudge and that's something to think about.
02:29:52.180But I also hope that like I gave you a similar type of nudge of that, like there are a few, at least from people who are kind of like ex-libertarians, what I just see from a lot of them in their rejection of libertarianism are these kind of like fundamental flaws that they're.
02:30:10.460It's just like making logical mistakes where literally none of this spiritual stuff like conflicts with libertarianism at all.
02:30:16.760And like just like the points I was making about like, you know, the people who show up for the LP convention aren't a statement on what laissez-faire free markets would look like in the world and stuff like that.
02:30:28.180So, you know, I enjoy these conversations and thanks for having me.
02:30:33.060Absolutely. Dave, thank you for taking the time.
02:30:35.000Clint, I won't be there tomorrow, but we have Tower Gang 9-11 show up.