Nephilim Death Squad - TIMECAPSULE： From Witchcraft to Christianity w⧸ Mama Sha

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00:00:30.000 We are being hypnotized by people like this.

00:00:42.820 News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers.

00:00:47.320 We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people.

00:00:56.220 The chasm between what we're told is going on and what is really going on.

00:01:00.000 It's absolutely...

00:01:02.000 Oh, yeah, dude.

00:01:03.320 There's some Nephilim shit.

00:01:04.880 It's like we all know it's going down.

00:01:07.140 We know I'm saying shit what happened to the home of the brave.

00:01:10.320 These motherf***ers, they're controlling us now.

00:01:12.320 We know we're talking about how they made us try to be slaves.

00:01:15.440 And everybody's just walking around.

00:01:17.540 Heading the clouds and want to wake up to a dead in the grave.

00:01:20.660 But it's too late.

00:01:21.660 We need to be ready to raise up.

00:01:23.480 Welcome to the end of day.

00:01:25.140 Everybody is slaves.

00:01:26.680 Only some are aware that the government really...

00:01:29.140 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad.

00:01:35.220 I am David Lee Corbo, a.k.a. The Raven.

00:01:38.360 That is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation.

00:01:41.860 And today we are joined by Shannon, a.k.a. Mama Shah.

00:01:46.400 Shannon, if you could, for the audience,

00:01:48.060 just introduce yourself and describe sort of the nature of what you're here to talk about today.

00:01:55.060 Hey, everyone.

00:01:56.660 So, like I said, my name is Shannon.

00:02:00.020 I am a Christian, but I came out of the occult and Satanism.

00:02:06.880 And I'm here to share my testimony.

00:02:08.740 It's sort of like split into two sections where I became a Christian.

00:02:12.560 And then within the last year or so, I realized that the spiritual forces of darkness are very real and attached to Christians, too.

00:02:25.960 So, that's what I'm here to talk about.

00:02:29.860 Very cool.

00:02:30.840 So, we were suggested to us by Bradley Lyle.

00:02:37.640 And I listened to your interview on there and I caught...

00:02:41.140 I didn't want to like ruin the whole story myself,

00:02:43.020 but I think it would be cool to start at the beginning of what was going on in your life.

00:02:48.780 How did you get mixed up in this stuff?

00:02:50.740 And like how does your story play out?

00:02:53.480 Like how does one get into witchcraft and the occult?

00:02:57.500 So, I was raised Christian kind of like my parents took me to like a Presbyterian church a couple of times growing up.

00:03:07.260 But then after they got divorced, I, you know, kids are dramatic and like chill, especially teenagers.

00:03:15.780 So, as a young teenager, I, my parents were divorced.

00:03:19.700 They didn't have very many friends and I was one of those, like a typical goth 90s, early 2000s teenager.

00:03:29.400 And so, I found a book at Borders on witchcraft, sort of advertised to teenagers.

00:03:37.740 And up to that point, I had had no idea that witchcraft was anybody actually believed in it.

00:03:43.380 Like, I thought it was something on like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Charmed.

00:03:48.120 So, that's, that was sort of my perspective on it.

00:03:52.780 And then once I realized it was real, I was like, hell yeah.

00:03:57.220 Like, why not?

00:03:58.140 Why not?

00:03:58.720 Like, let's, let's dive in.

00:04:00.600 So, it's funny.

00:04:01.760 I think, I think Brad set us up here because he suggested our previous guest, Nix,

00:04:06.180 who basically covered, uh, all the sex of Satanism.

00:04:10.580 And just yesterday, we talked about Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

00:04:14.040 We talked about, like, soft occultism.

00:04:16.320 We talked about witchcraft being hokey.

00:04:18.560 We talked about, uh, like, goth and the style of, like, you know,

00:04:22.420 this kind of, like, this soft entry into the occult and Satanism.

00:04:25.980 And here we are today talking to somebody who this, this stuff just seemed to work on.

00:04:31.420 That's interesting.

00:04:32.160 Brad seemingly, uh, pitching us an underhand throw here.

00:04:35.640 When it comes to, it's really interesting that you're talking about,

00:04:38.940 I was just in this bookstore the other day, Books a Million.

00:04:41.560 And there is, like, an entire, uh, New Age witchcraft occult section.

00:04:46.680 And it does have a teenage bent to it.

00:04:49.420 And a lot of that stuff is what they pitch at teenagers.

00:04:51.680 And I don't want to be the type of person that's like, don't watch Harry Potter.

00:04:55.660 But these things do effectively act as a gateway.

00:04:59.780 And I don't, um, I'm not the type of person that tells people to stay away from it

00:05:04.180 because I think your journey is your own.

00:05:05.640 Here you are sitting before us, right?

00:05:07.440 Who, you seemingly came to Christ through the back door of the church.

00:05:10.960 That's kind of the expression that I use when it comes to people who first found their way

00:05:14.440 through the occult and then end up Christianity.

00:05:17.100 Uh, it's just interesting, though, that you're here telling us it was a, it was a book on witchcraft

00:05:22.280 that was aimed at teenagers.

00:05:23.320 It's like, well, there you go.

00:05:24.220 The door does work.

00:05:25.460 Yep.

00:05:25.600 Well, I mean, teenagers are very impressionable and they care a lot more about social standing

00:05:32.240 and like appearance and everything like poetry, like dark poetry, like all of that cheesy stuff.

00:05:38.920 That's all teenager.

00:05:41.380 You know what I mean?

00:05:42.160 Yeah.

00:05:42.600 Um, it's cheesy to us, but they, obviously I got super into it.

00:05:48.320 Right.

00:05:48.840 So what, what about it was so, um, alluring?

00:05:52.320 Because you said initially when you had gotten into it, you, you didn't really believe anybody

00:05:55.600 believed in this.

00:05:56.820 Right.

00:05:57.180 And then there was something that was tangible enough that kept you there.

00:06:00.720 What was that?

00:06:01.820 Um, I thought it was attractive.

00:06:03.080 Uh, there was some sexual appeal and the whole aesthetic to, you know, like the goth subculture,

00:06:13.140 you know, and I was very overweight at that time.

00:06:16.880 Like I, I was 230 pounds in middle school and it, I think that played into it also was,

00:06:23.920 uh, like wanting some sort of release to like escape myself and escape my family, escape

00:06:30.840 everything.

00:06:31.580 And also witchcraft offers a, you get you like control.

00:06:36.260 So you can control a world that is spiraling out of control.

00:06:41.620 And like, I felt out of control in my body and it's just, it's a multifaceted.

00:06:46.880 Um, issue, but, um, yes, so I got into witchcraft and I was sort of like toyed around with it

00:06:56.160 and built an altar and things.

00:06:57.960 And I, uh, tried a few spells and I, um, ended up doing basically like a love spell on this

00:07:10.100 kid that I had this massive crush on.

00:07:12.920 Um, and I left a candle burning in my room and I left for school with the candle burning

00:07:20.080 and naturally it, my room caught on fire.

00:07:23.880 Oh my goodness.

00:07:25.440 Yeah.

00:07:25.800 And my, when I got home from school, like the whole house was filled with smoke damage.

00:07:30.200 My room had been like burned.

00:07:31.820 And, um, um, but the spell worked, which if you know anything about magic or like the,

00:07:39.040 the law of, um, Oh, what is it called?

00:07:42.800 I can't remember.

00:07:43.300 Attraction.

00:07:44.120 Yeah.

00:07:44.440 Well, not the law of attraction, but in a way.

00:07:46.900 So when you, you sacrifice things to, um, like a, an entity or like a spell or whatever,

00:07:56.600 like it can sort of increase the power is like, right.

00:07:59.960 So as far as your offerings go, you kind of offered our entire room, right.

00:08:06.240 And it worked, which is filled with things that you're, you know, are beloved to you.

00:08:10.580 Right.

00:08:10.920 If you're a, if you're a teenager in your room, that's filled with all of your memories.

00:08:14.440 And yeah.

00:08:14.900 So you sack, that was a big sacrifice.

00:08:16.760 Burned all your shit.

00:08:17.500 Um, uh, this might be, if you don't want to, uh, don't answer it, but is there a specific

00:08:24.120 name entity that's involved with, cause I assume that there is going to be a different

00:08:28.400 principality for this sort of magic, this sort of spell that you're doing.

00:08:32.640 Were you in that deep into it?

00:08:34.960 Um, no.

00:08:36.700 So I, at that time I didn't have any idea about like demons or I was into goddesses.

00:08:43.620 So I was like sacrificing to like Diana or, um, Hecate or Hecate, however you pronounce

00:08:51.220 her name.

00:08:52.320 And, uh, so my, like I, I had been after, after that spell, I started to be attacked by

00:08:59.040 shadow people, but I didn't have any concept about demons.

00:09:03.920 And so like that didn't come in until a lot later.

00:09:07.680 Um, so how effective was this spell?

00:09:10.680 You said that it worked.

00:09:11.860 It worked.

00:09:12.140 It worked.

00:09:12.900 Um, so he, within like a couple of months, uh, he asked me out and I quickly realized

00:09:22.460 I did not like him and he's like, yeah, and so I broke up with him and he, all the way

00:09:32.400 through high school into college, he had a thing for me and would sort of, I think to like

00:09:40.020 an obsessive level because I went on, I like became, I became like a full-blown lesbian in

00:09:45.100 college and I like bought the, the leftist liberal, the whole pie.

00:09:51.800 Like I ate it all.

00:09:52.640 Um, and I was like full-blown blue haired, um, but even through all of that, that whole

00:10:01.160 time he had like, uh, like an, uh, an obsession kind of thing going.

00:10:05.400 So I, I personally think like looking back, I don't think it was actually the spell that

00:10:11.280 worked, but probably like demonic oppression involved there.

00:10:16.420 That's what I think now.

00:10:17.640 But back then I thought my magic had worked.

00:10:21.060 I want to ask you a question.

00:10:22.860 Can I circle back before you, before you move on?

00:10:25.440 So you just said, uh, shadow people attacking you.

00:10:28.180 Um, were these, it, were you able to tell where those, uh, entities or where those people

00:10:34.840 that are, uh, astral projecting, like, like you opened up a door and now they're, they

00:10:39.340 have access to you.

00:10:40.240 What do you think?

00:10:40.600 I don't know.

00:10:41.460 I'm not sure.

00:10:42.060 I think that they were entities.

00:10:43.700 I think, uh, cause it was like choking and like holding me down and, and everything.

00:10:49.620 And it would happen on like a consistent basis.

00:10:53.460 So it could be astral projection.

00:10:55.060 I do have something related to that, that, um, when I was a kid long before I ever tried

00:11:02.320 witchcraft, um, uh, there was, uh, a Satanist that lived at house, a couple of houses down

00:11:10.400 from me.

00:11:11.200 And I think that he had like a thing for kids and he would like, we'd have our pool out as

00:11:19.400 like a little kid and be like swimming me and my brother.

00:11:22.500 And he would just be standing there watching us.

00:11:25.360 And, um, I, around that same time, I would wake up sometimes at night and there would

00:11:31.880 be like a shadow figure, not as more like a static, like on the old TVs, there'd be like

00:11:38.860 white noise or static on a TV when it wasn't connected to anything.

00:11:42.540 Um, a figure that looked like that just static would be like standing in my doorway, looking

00:11:49.100 at me.

00:11:50.000 And it happened like numerous times.

00:11:53.960 And you ever heard Shannon, other people's descriptive of that static man.

00:11:58.000 Cause I I've heard that descriptive several times.

00:12:01.180 Have you, I've only heard, I've, I talked to Tony Merkel about it and he said that he had

00:12:06.100 a dream once about like a static person, but that's the only person I've heard that, um,

00:12:12.280 about the static people.

00:12:13.960 But I assume.

00:12:14.780 Cause it seems to be like repeat.

00:12:16.400 Um, it's very far and few in between that you find somebody with an experience that somebody

00:12:21.780 else hasn't also seen something similar.

00:12:23.580 And I think that just speaks to the categorization of entities that are in this realm that we

00:12:29.720 can't see.

00:12:30.580 It's not a random thing.

00:12:32.820 Oftentimes people are visited by the same entities.

00:12:35.340 Yeah.

00:12:36.600 You know, you said something before, um, that you fell into the whole gambit of, you know,

00:12:42.900 uh, leftism or liberalism, uh, you know, becoming a lesbian at, at some point.

00:12:47.680 Yeah.

00:12:48.180 And you even said like the blue hair.

00:12:49.740 And it's fascinating because these are political and cultural alignments that always seem to

00:12:56.300 meet this end of the spiritual spectrum.

00:12:58.780 You know what I mean?

00:12:59.540 And I just think that that's fascinating because that's not the forward facing, you know, mask

00:13:06.820 of the movement, but it's always an element to it.

00:13:10.080 And it's, it's, I don't know what it is.

00:13:12.240 It's like something about these ideologies and these spiritual practice practices.

00:13:17.680 They prey on people who are, uh, disenfranchised from the general population.

00:13:22.360 So people that are outliers that have had a negative experience one way or the other

00:13:26.060 socially often fall into these things.

00:13:29.320 It's, it's really like these things are parasitic or, or, um, prey driven and they're waiting

00:13:35.060 for somebody to take advantage of.

00:13:37.240 Um, I, I think that, um, like wounds like that, like, I'm sorry if y'all can hear that,

00:13:42.920 but, um, I think that on the spirit realm, we have, when we go through social traumas

00:13:49.660 and, um, just whatever, like emotional trauma, it can leave windows open to our bodies.

00:13:58.560 And I think that that window like leaves opportunity for parasites, like you said, to climb in through

00:14:07.220 and like inhabit and torment us.

00:14:10.140 And it's sort of like leaves us vulnerable, especially if you don't have like the, the

00:14:15.840 armor of God, for example, which I had no idea what that even was until like a couple of years

00:14:21.220 ago.

00:14:22.080 And I think, um, yeah, I think that's exactly right.

00:14:27.040 We talk about it on the show often.

00:14:29.300 Um, and it's certainly a contentious topic because it's, it's a touchy one, but it does

00:14:34.820 seem like, um, within these organizations, there is a uplifting of women to a higher

00:14:42.440 spiritual authority place.

00:14:44.040 And when I mean these organizations, I mean like, uh, covens and, and, and, you know, uh,

00:14:48.800 at the top of the show, Top Lops has said that yesterday we were discussing various

00:14:52.980 sects of Satanism and such within these organizations, they'll elevate women to a high spiritual

00:14:57.820 place.

00:14:58.420 And I find it interesting that the church doesn't do that.

00:15:01.380 And I just wonder if it's because women are particularly spiritually vulnerable.

00:15:06.340 Um, I think in some ways women are a bit more in tune with the spiritual realm.

00:15:12.040 They're more, they can interact with it.

00:15:14.240 They're subjected to it more.

00:15:16.000 Uh, it can interact with them a little bit more than, than men.

00:15:19.120 And I think when you take women and you strip them of their spiritual understanding, but you

00:15:23.880 cannot remove that interaction that still happens to them.

00:15:26.700 Um, that's where things go wrong because now they don't have a map and they seek to further

00:15:32.240 their interactions with this thing that's communing with them.

00:15:35.300 And then we end up with this situation where you have, uh, the mothers of darkness or what

00:15:38.820 have you.

00:15:39.160 Um, yeah, I think, I think that there is some truth to that.

00:15:43.600 Um, and I don't, I guess, I don't know if you think it's like church tradition or like,

00:15:49.760 I think there's also some like misunderstanding, uh, or misinterpretation of like the writings

00:15:55.220 of Paul, um, about like women shouldn't like speak in church and things like that.

00:16:01.100 Um, yeah, I, I, it does seem like women are by and large more in tune spiritually.

00:16:09.440 Um, and it's also the serpent spoke to Eve.

00:16:14.660 So I don't know.

00:16:15.420 It's interesting.

00:16:16.420 Well, I do think that that's the, the doorway.

00:16:18.680 If you want to corrupt, uh, people, it seems that you can leverage women.

00:16:24.780 And I think this is a mistake that happens over and over again, where we lose our spiritual

00:16:28.960 understanding, but it never stops interacting with us in particular women.

00:16:33.060 And so, um, okay, so let's, let's, I'm sorry to interrupt.

00:16:36.800 Let's continue this, uh, this, so you, you are a, for a period, you're really immersed in

00:16:42.240 this culture, right?

00:16:43.220 Uh, like you said, you went through this socially, culturally, politically, um, and of course,

00:16:49.900 spiritually, how do you end up getting to, did you end up like finding a group or something

00:16:56.400 like that?

00:16:56.840 Or is it real?

00:16:58.380 Okay.

00:16:58.780 Uh, in high school, I, uh, found friends and we did form a coven of sorts and it wasn't,

00:17:07.160 I mean, we did some rituals and things, but it wasn't anything super hardcore, but I mean,

00:17:12.840 we did, we did do some magic together and we also, uh, we did like study groups, like

00:17:17.940 on magic and, uh, like paganism and things.

00:17:21.880 And, you know, it's a cheesy goth click, you know?

00:17:26.500 So, um.

00:17:28.020 What did you try to do, if anything, about this shadow people?

00:17:32.180 You said that you were having instances where you were being choked and such.

00:17:35.700 Did you take any recourse?

00:17:37.220 I, no, that would have been smart.

00:17:40.540 Um, I, I was an idiot, of course, uh, but, uh, so I, I knew intuitively that the shadow

00:17:50.980 people were coming at me because of the witchcraft performing magic.

00:17:56.460 I felt like I had opened a door and, um, I, so I stepped back from magic for a short period

00:18:05.620 of time.

00:18:06.620 Um, but I mean, ultimately I just accepted that they were going to happen and they began

00:18:12.980 happening less frequently, but I did experience like sleep paralysis and, um, you know, like

00:18:20.100 haunting situations.

00:18:21.900 But, uh, yeah, I never, I never thought it never occurred to me to try and protect myself.

00:18:26.720 Um, I mean, I would do like salt circles and things, but, um, yeah, I didn't like, we didn't

00:18:33.080 have the internet back then.

00:18:34.740 So it was, it wasn't as easy to identify things like that.

00:18:40.140 And I didn't really understand like the mechanics of magic until later in life.

00:18:45.340 Um, so yeah, these books, um, what are they telling you to do?

00:18:52.320 I never really thought about that much.

00:18:54.340 You have a book on witchcraft in the teenage section in your local bookstore.

00:18:58.520 Um, what is, what are the, you know, what is it about?

00:19:04.560 So it'll go through.

00:19:06.700 So it re so the book that I had specifically, all right.

00:19:10.860 A few books, but it, they basically did like a retelling of how women used to be in power.

00:19:19.360 So like there were, there was goddess worship.

00:19:21.780 And then as like the pendulum swung towards masculinity, uh, Christianity came in and like

00:19:29.540 the sky father.

00:19:31.440 And, um, so masculinity took over and then now the pendulum is swinging back towards feminism.

00:19:37.820 So there's like a dualistic, uh, balance that happens.

00:19:43.080 And, uh, like every 2000 years, it'll, the pendulum will swing is what this book said.

00:19:47.860 Okay.

00:19:48.140 And it like retold how Christianity, um, was just a construct from, uh, Constantine to rule

00:19:57.680 Rome and to unite the pagan empire and, uh, or the, uh, Roman empire under one God.

00:20:05.320 And it was like a, it had some seeds of truth to it, but it was like a revisionist history.

00:20:13.040 And then it also taught you how to build altars.

00:20:16.680 It gave you information on different deities and it was like the basic instructions on like

00:20:23.720 how to do a spell and how to protect yourself during the spell with like the salt circle

00:20:29.460 and, you know, calling on the different powers from Northeast, Southwest, and all of that

00:20:36.300 stuff.

00:20:37.300 So this, um, altar, you said at one point you had built an altar.

00:20:43.900 Yes.

00:20:44.380 Did you make an effort to dedicate that altar to any particular deity?

00:20:48.840 Yes.

00:20:49.240 I, I, uh, preferred Artemis and Diana.

00:20:53.660 Let me see if I can.

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00:22:25.480 Sorry, my husband's work computer keeps going off.

00:22:30.380 I wasn't sure if that was a, you were tapped there.

00:22:33.260 It's okay.

00:22:34.040 Um, yeah, you can figure that out because we're, this is pre-taped so we could edit that.

00:22:37.560 I'll bookmark it.

00:22:39.160 Oh yeah.

00:22:39.780 How cool is that?

00:22:41.120 We used to usually go live and it's like, all right, well, I guess we'll just struggle

00:22:44.660 through it, but don't worry about it.

00:22:46.200 Thank you.

00:22:47.540 Um, I'm going to take this opportunity for a quick pee break, then I'll be right back.

00:22:51.820 Okay.

00:22:53.080 I'm here looking up Artemis.

00:22:54.460 Uh, so it's a, it's a deity, a patron protector of young children, especially young girls.

00:23:00.200 Yep.

00:23:01.820 Interesting.

00:23:02.400 This is like, oh, this is an ancient Greek, Greek God.

00:23:04.800 So on this, yeah, on our, on this show here, we, uh, we kind of tie the, the idea of these

00:23:12.840 ancient, ancient deities, especially from the Greek pantheon.

00:23:16.560 We tie them back to, uh, possibly the Nephilim, possibly the fallen angels.

00:23:21.860 Some of them like, uh, Baal and Zeus have a lot, a lot of overlap as far as I think it's

00:23:28.360 like, uh, the Triton that he holds.

00:23:30.020 And I mean, even, even if you look at the, uh, Statue of Liberty, that kind of resembles

00:23:35.920 Baal in a certain, in a certain way.

00:23:37.780 So we think that, uh, we think that some of these deities, most of these deities are just

00:23:43.920 rebranded and retold to us in a different way.

00:23:47.420 And you worship them under a different name.

00:23:50.080 Yeah, I agree with that.

00:23:51.480 I think that's exactly right.

00:23:52.500 And the pagans back in, back in biblical times knew this, like their gods had many names.

00:23:59.400 Uh, so it would, the same deity would shift names like, uh, Ishtar.

00:24:06.360 And then she has a lot of similarities, in my opinion, to like Kuan Yin, who is like an Indian

00:24:13.680 goddess of death.

00:24:15.740 But they have like these similarities where it's like, as people moved throughout, you

00:24:22.500 know, the European continent and Africa and everything, like they brought their gods with

00:24:28.240 them.

00:24:29.460 And so, yeah, I think, I think that's exactly right.

00:24:33.760 Yeah, David, we're just like recapping, uh, just the rebranding.

00:24:37.180 And it's kind of interesting as, as you popped in, uh, into the stream yard before we were

00:24:42.440 talking about aliens and what we think is going to happen there.

00:24:46.220 And we've, we've been saying for a long time as well, aliens just seem like a rebranding

00:24:49.760 of, of demonic entities or possibly Nephilim or something.

00:24:54.840 I don't know.

00:24:56.120 Dave, what are we thinking here?

00:24:58.100 I mean, I think that, um, there's several elements to the alien thing, whether or not it's

00:25:04.920 reverse engineered craft, or even it doesn't have to be reverse engineered, it could just

00:25:08.400 be technology that's been suppressed by our own military industrial complex.

00:25:11.980 But then there is an element that seems to be very real.

00:25:16.060 Uh, I just don't think they're from outer space.

00:25:17.840 I think that more than likely they're these kind of ancient adversarial biblical entities

00:25:22.360 and they've figured out ways through technology and such to interact with this realm a little

00:25:26.400 bit more concretely.

00:25:27.420 Um, but it speaks to human beings, um, our thirst for knowledge also plays really well

00:25:38.200 with our ego in such a way that if you rebrand something and present it to someone, they will

00:25:44.820 look at that and then go, now I understand it.

00:25:47.580 And that understanding is it like bolsters their ego.

00:25:50.600 So in a way, like you're talking about revisionist history from this witchcraft book, um, you

00:25:56.140 read this book and there is an egocentric element to it where you go, ah, I now have

00:26:01.980 deeper gnosis.

00:26:03.020 I have deeper understanding of a topic.

00:26:05.320 And then it just, it folds into your rhetoric and the conversations that you have.

00:26:09.420 Well, actually this isn't true.

00:26:10.560 What really happened is 2000 years ago, things use, you know what I mean?

00:26:13.340 And it's like somehow that information gets tied into your personality.

00:26:18.260 And I think that it's so clever, the rebranding aspect of things, because it plays off of,

00:26:23.840 you know, natural human proclivities to kind of just want to be the best.

00:26:28.820 And we know it all.

00:26:29.540 And we have the coveted knowledge that nobody else has.

00:26:31.980 And so I think that it's not just unique to aliens.

00:26:35.920 Um, even, you know, you're talking about Hecate, right?

00:26:38.740 And, uh, Diana and such.

00:26:40.840 And I think there's real precedent for at least Hecate or Hecate, however you would pronounce

00:26:49.500 it, being Lilith, um, the, the night monster that's spoken about in the Bible.

00:26:56.060 This, this, uh, female negative spirit that typically, um, lures men.

00:27:04.960 And I think it's where we get the idea of like the siren as well, or the harpy.

00:27:08.520 They described Lilith as a harpy, which I find fascinating, but, uh, there is something

00:27:13.900 there where, you know, you've taken this character and it's the same character, but you've rebranded

00:27:20.180 her for Norse mythology for maybe a native American bent, but it's the same one.

00:27:26.800 Um, and it does the same things.

00:27:29.880 And, um, but now I know her as Hecate or I know her as X, Y, and Z.

00:27:35.700 Therefore, I have Gnosis, a deeper understanding of this subject.

00:27:39.020 And you lean on that and mistake that for the ability to trust this topic.

00:27:44.060 And that's where things go really wrong.

00:27:45.880 But yeah, it's, it's over and over again, things get rebranded and it just hijacks our

00:27:49.960 psychology and, you know, we get wrapped up in it.

00:27:52.580 Um, I think it's, I think it's so interesting.

00:27:56.500 It's terrifying, but also interesting.

00:27:59.180 Um, my dad was obsessed with native American lore, native American history, native American

00:28:05.920 everything.

00:28:06.460 We have like a minuscule amount of like Choctaw and it, um, he had all of like these flutes

00:28:14.620 and dream catchers and all of this stuff inside of our house.

00:28:19.340 And I had, I would have like this reoccurring nightmare where there was a, um, like a bird

00:28:28.380 monster trying to climb in through my window.

00:28:32.480 And this happened, it was the exact same dream several times.

00:28:36.220 And I would be, and this was in waking reality, like in real life, I would be sitting in my

00:28:42.620 room, like on my top bunk.

00:28:44.420 And I would see like these feathers, like go like above my bed and, and then down.

00:28:50.320 And I would like go and look and there'd be nothing there.

00:28:52.480 And like, I, this happened before I started getting into, um, witchcraft.

00:29:01.280 And I feel like maybe like spiritually something was like already had, like had its grips in

00:29:11.180 me and was like, sort of like pushing me in like this direction.

00:29:14.800 And I don't, I just think it's interesting, like with the Lilith tie in and like, um,

00:29:21.200 The harpy aspect?

00:29:22.560 Yes.

00:29:23.180 Yeah.

00:29:23.740 Yeah.

00:29:24.180 There's, I mean, that's something too.

00:29:25.380 You'll see, um, Isis depicted as having, uh, bird wings, you know, or, or, you know,

00:29:31.580 these, most of these are fallen angels or some offshoot of them.

00:29:35.420 And it always seems that wings are, yeah.

00:29:37.920 Lilith has like bird feet, right?

00:29:40.080 Yeah.

00:29:40.260 Harpies.

00:29:40.740 Yeah.

00:29:40.900 So harpies are, they have the lower half of a bird more or less, um, with, yeah, talons

00:29:46.340 and, uh, and gigantic wings and, you know, the upper half of a, of a, of a woman.

00:29:51.360 But it's kind of interesting, right?

00:29:52.640 Cause it's like, you hear this, you hear this kind of story a lot where if someone gets involved

00:29:57.360 in this stuff, they're precursors in their childhood or their past that.

00:30:00.820 But yeah, they're like, I remember this happening and then boom, all of a sudden I'm waist deep

00:30:05.640 in, in the occult.

00:30:07.180 It's like, I don't want to say, I mean, we have free will, but it's almost like, like

00:30:12.080 there's a mark on you or there's like a susceptibility to you that they're like, I

00:30:15.460 know that I can get in.

00:30:16.760 It's just a matter of time.

00:30:17.720 And they're just in waiting.

00:30:19.480 Right.

00:30:19.680 And it, is it a matter of, um, you doing something that, that triggers this attention

00:30:25.880 that they're now giving you?

00:30:27.020 Or is it a matter of, um, maybe a generational thing, for example, and this is very effectively

00:30:33.500 brings us to the question that I want to ask you.

00:30:35.280 But when I was younger, my grandmother, who I love dearly was, uh, you know, she thought

00:30:42.860 she was a clairvoyant.

00:30:44.300 Uh, she was writing papers on remote viewing.

00:30:48.780 Um, she was a victim of adept, uh, alien abduction phenomenon when she was a child.

00:30:56.160 She didn't know what it was until she got older.

00:30:58.260 And, you know, there was cultural, uh, context for what she had gone through when she realized,

00:31:03.740 oh, wow, other people are, uh, experiencing this as well.

00:31:06.560 But I have a series of strange things that has, you know, they've always happened throughout

00:31:11.120 my life.

00:31:11.700 And I think in great deal, it probably has to do with some sort of like what the Bible

00:31:15.100 might call generational iniquity.

00:31:16.460 Um, so I'm wondering for you, Shannon, is there anything that you could look to in your

00:31:21.700 past where maybe, uh, uh, a relative was involved heavily in something that could have been passed

00:31:27.560 down or, um, does any of that seem to resonate with you?

00:31:31.680 Um, I do, I do believe in generational curses.

00:31:35.020 Um, my, like I said, my dad was very into, um, like Native American religion and Native American,

00:31:43.100 um, just culture in general.

00:31:45.960 And, um, his mother was like a quarter Choctaw and she, she was Christian, but she would also,

00:31:58.360 um, like she had visions and things.

00:32:03.080 And, um, I don't know, I don't know, but my, I know that my father was into all of that.

00:32:09.960 And so we have that like in our bloodline.

00:32:13.000 So I don't know specifically though.

00:32:15.720 And on my mother's side, they were Catholic.

00:32:18.540 So for like generations.

00:32:21.720 So, um, yeah.

00:32:24.600 Like, for example, if you had stayed on the path that you were on, then do you believe maybe,

00:32:31.900 uh, generations after you could have been, cause that's what it seems like from where

00:32:36.440 I'm sitting.

00:32:36.780 So, um, yeah, yeah.

00:32:38.620 And I had my first son, um, before I got out of all of that.

00:32:43.420 So, and he has, uh, I think been marked also.

00:32:48.900 Um, he, yeah, he's, we've had some wild experiences with him and he can see, I, I, I think I call

00:32:58.220 it like discernment of spirits, but he can like see spirits.

00:33:02.060 And, uh, he has these crazy, there's some weird stuff with dreams with him.

00:33:09.160 Um, we can, we can talk about that.

00:33:12.460 Please let's go.

00:33:13.800 Okay.

00:33:14.000 So after I became a Christian, um, I, and my son was already born.

00:33:19.560 You was probably over between one and two.

00:33:24.360 And I was having this dream where a demon, a female bird demon, Lilith, I assume, um,

00:33:33.740 had like her claws in my head.

00:33:36.100 And she was like trying to like rip my head.

00:33:38.440 And all of a sudden my son's head appears in the dream.

00:33:43.860 And he was just, he's like glowing just his head.

00:33:47.600 And he goes, no.

00:33:49.080 And I wake up and he is laying on top of me and like shielding me.

00:33:54.560 And that has never happened before.

00:33:56.620 He does not, I've never woken up with him like that.

00:33:59.580 And he, um, yeah, dude, he totally saved me in that instance from a demonic attack.

00:34:06.860 That's incredible.

00:34:08.560 Yeah.

00:34:09.220 You said when he, when he appeared, he was glowing.

00:34:12.040 His head, like he poked his head into the dream.

00:34:15.760 Whoa.

00:34:16.920 Yeah.

00:34:18.080 Wow.

00:34:19.400 Yeah.

00:34:19.760 It was super weird.

00:34:22.280 And when I, when I, so I don't normally have dreams.

00:34:26.100 Um, when I, before I found out I was pregnant with him, I started having dreams that I was

00:34:33.600 pregnant with a boy and I was giving birth to a son and like, I don't have dreams and I

00:34:38.620 don't know if that's because he was inside of me or what, but like, um, yeah.

00:34:44.120 So after all of that happened, he, uh, became very ill.

00:34:48.540 He, um, got like strep throat and a staph infection.

00:34:53.600 And he had to, he were, we were in the hospital for 30 days and he had all of these surgeries

00:34:59.420 and he has like all of these like scars on him.

00:35:03.260 And like, I personally think it's because he's marked and, um, the enemy, whatever it

00:35:11.200 was trying to like, take him out is my personal opinion.

00:35:13.480 But anyway, he survived that.

00:35:15.500 And he now every once in a while, he'll have these, just these crazy dreams.

00:35:22.240 And it, um, yeah, it's very interesting.

00:35:25.460 What sorts of dreams?

00:35:26.520 Um, okay.

00:35:28.680 So he, so for example, just recently, he'll have like, we've started praying and praying,

00:35:35.780 um, like the armor of God and for like a shield around the house.

00:35:39.760 And he will have these dreams where like, um, hordes of bees are like trying to like break

00:35:47.080 in and, um, yeah.

00:35:50.540 And then he'll, so that, that was the most recent dream, but okay.

00:35:54.660 Um, so we, uh, my pastor knows my testimony, right?

00:35:59.500 I promise this is getting back into the dream.

00:36:01.140 So, um, my pastor knows my testimony and we go to like a Baptist ish church.

00:36:06.920 So whenever I'm his official, like demon person.

00:36:10.880 So whenever there's somebody who is afflicted, he'll send them my way.

00:36:15.280 Right.

00:36:15.640 So I have had demonic experiences, but I didn't know what I was doing really when this, when

00:36:23.160 he first started sending me people.

00:36:24.880 And there's one person in particular.

00:36:26.480 So I went and prayed over this person's house without their permission and, um, something

00:36:33.020 attached to me.

00:36:34.800 And, um, so it knew where to find me.

00:36:37.800 Right.

00:36:37.980 So this girl reaches out to me again for help with, uh, getting rid of this demon.

00:36:44.580 And as I'm telling her what to do, um, a demon like comes and tries to attach to me, but it

00:36:54.120 can't.

00:36:54.500 So it attaches to my son, the one who has all of these dreams.

00:36:57.520 And my, that night, um, he started, he dreamt that there was, he was being tortured and,

00:37:08.940 um, like all of like this weird stuff that he's like never been exposed to.

00:37:14.080 And I was able to cast it out of him and he, um, came to know the Lord, but he, man,

00:37:25.500 you just will have the, I don't know if they're like prophetic dreams or, um, y'all, I'm sorry.

00:37:38.820 I'm like getting lost in my words.

00:37:41.760 No, that's all right.

00:37:42.360 No, I know it's a difficult thing to try to explain as well.

00:37:47.420 Cause it's like one story leads into the next.

00:37:49.660 I, I, this is how my brain works too.

00:37:51.900 So go ahead, do what you gotta do.

00:37:53.560 I'm following.

00:37:54.300 If we have questions, we're going to stop you and be like, what did you just say?

00:37:57.760 Well, here, while you, well, the reason that I asked what sort of dreams is because my son,

00:38:03.240 um, has had his fair share of strange experiences.

00:38:06.920 He's nine years old now.

00:38:08.020 And mostly these things don't happen anymore.

00:38:11.380 Although in the past he has told me a story about this when he was really little, he was

00:38:15.640 probably like three years old that he was, uh, in bed and it felt as though his body was

00:38:22.220 tied down to the bed with belts and, uh, and he saw a man pacing back and forth in the

00:38:28.200 hallway, uh, black hat, black duster coat.

00:38:31.000 Um, so at three years old, you know, he's explaining the hat man to me.

00:38:35.940 I still remember.

00:38:36.820 And it's weird because you don't, you try not to as a parent feed into it because, you

00:38:42.720 know, really.

00:38:43.900 And I was just saying this on another show for a good night's sleep.

00:38:47.700 You know what I mean?

00:38:48.460 Like, obviously there's other very important reasons, but, uh, if you like to be able to

00:38:53.360 sleep at night as a parent, you don't feed into these things.

00:38:56.320 And I remember one day he came to me and he starts telling me about a dream that he had.

00:39:01.700 And whenever my son talks about dreams, I don't like feed in actively, but I do try, like

00:39:08.880 I'll, I'll tune in and I'll listen and I won't make it a big deal, but I'm listening.

00:39:12.480 Um, and, um, and he starts telling me about a dog, a black dog, uh, with red eyes that

00:39:18.620 could talk.

00:39:19.840 And, um, and I said, huh, that's, I don't like that, but all right.

00:39:25.400 You know, and he's, he's saying that the dog is like his friend.

00:39:28.500 There's a good guy in the dream.

00:39:30.640 And, uh, then he comes to me only about a week later and he's describing his dreams and

00:39:36.860 it's the same dog again.

00:39:38.100 And at that, I said, well, next time you see that dog, tell it in the name of Jesus

00:39:42.220 Christ to leave you alone.

00:39:43.600 Don't speak to you anymore.

00:39:45.140 Don't come to your dreams.

00:39:46.560 Don't contact me in the name of Jesus Christ.

00:39:49.040 You have to go away.

00:39:50.480 And, um, I think he's described that dog to me, maybe a total of three times.

00:39:55.400 And according to him, he's nine years old.

00:39:56.880 So who the hell knows?

00:39:57.780 And I don't even want to necessarily tell my son that, by the way, I don't want to say,

00:40:00.640 Hey, nine year old.

00:40:01.920 Well, he was like maybe eight at the time, seven engage in spiritual warfare.

00:40:05.660 You know what I mean?

00:40:06.960 Why not?

00:40:07.740 If you feed into that, it becomes, well, I mean, it's a double-edged sword, right?

00:40:11.080 Because I do believe something is definitively happening, but also the imagination of a child

00:40:15.980 can take it to a point where who knows, then it's, then it's this recurring thing.

00:40:20.840 And he's in this realm where he's constantly coming back to me, telling me about, you know,

00:40:25.320 casting out demons.

00:40:25.940 And, okay, so my son is five and he, we've had, because of where I came from, my family

00:40:38.300 has opened doors to spiritual, to spiritual attack, spiritual warfare, more so than the

00:40:44.300 average person.

00:40:45.000 And we will all experience paranormal activity occasionally.

00:40:49.380 And my son after, so I described about how, um, this demon came and attached to us and

00:40:59.620 it attached to my son and it was torturing him and his dreams.

00:41:04.060 And I started seeing, this was, this happened over a course of three days.

00:41:08.280 I started seeing this shadow person walking around and I didn't say anything to my son about,

00:41:15.140 about what had happened and he started seeing it too.

00:41:19.480 And he was like, mom, there was a man walking through our bedroom.

00:41:24.080 And he, so the first night he had the dream where a girl was like electrocuting him and

00:41:28.760 torturing him.

00:41:29.880 And then the second night it was this crazy sexual stuff that he had no words for.

00:41:36.060 He just was describing it to me.

00:41:38.240 And I was like, what do I do?

00:41:41.660 And yes, horrifying.

00:41:43.780 And he's normally, he's the sweetest, kindest little boy.

00:41:48.100 He was angry.

00:41:49.740 Uh, whenever we would try and pray or talk about Jesus, he would get upset and he was

00:41:55.760 like growling and stuff.

00:41:57.360 Like something had very clearly attached to him.

00:42:00.020 And, um, finally, after the second night where he had those, the sexual dreams, I sat him

00:42:08.460 down and I was like, okay, listen, um, my best friend, uh, is also very, she came out of,

00:42:15.740 she used to be in my coven.

00:42:16.980 She's now a Christian also.

00:42:18.380 So we communicate about all of this stuff.

00:42:21.600 And she was like, what about unforgiveness?

00:42:25.180 I'm, I'm reading that unforgiveness is a, is a big window, like an open window in the

00:42:30.560 spirit realm.

00:42:31.500 So I was like, okay, listen, buddy, you got to forgive your little brother.

00:42:35.740 Uh, my younger son is two and he is a terrorist.

00:42:41.360 Can't relate.

00:42:44.260 So he is constantly terrorizing my older son.

00:42:48.520 And so I was like, do you forgive your little brother?

00:42:51.680 Like, do you, you have like, um, do you love him?

00:42:56.280 And I explained to him that like unforgiveness and sin leaves us vulnerable to spirits.

00:43:03.400 And I was straight up, like, I think a spirit has attached to you.

00:43:08.040 And he was like, I forgive, I forgive my little brother.

00:43:11.880 I love my little brother.

00:43:13.020 And I was able to cast it out of him after that.

00:43:15.540 And he said that he felt the bad kingdom leave him.

00:43:19.900 Interesting.

00:43:19.960 And yes.

00:43:21.120 And then he was singing and happy.

00:43:23.400 And we together, we walked through the whole house and cleared it out, uh, by, you know,

00:43:29.340 you, you take authority over your home and you cast demons out, uh, cause we have authority

00:43:35.660 to step over them.

00:43:37.680 Um, and you know, cast them out in Jesus name.

00:43:40.520 Now, what did you, the chat is going crazy with what you just went, you went to somebody's

00:43:45.520 house and you started casting a demon out of someone else's house without their consent.

00:43:48.960 But yes, I did.

00:43:51.520 You're a wild girl.

00:43:52.460 Okay.

00:43:52.880 Tell me about that.

00:43:54.260 I didn't know.

00:43:55.660 I would never do that again.

00:43:57.740 I would never, ever do that again, but I did do that.

00:44:00.700 I was asking for it.

00:44:01.900 I could see how you would think that's a good idea.

00:44:04.600 Right.

00:44:04.940 I mean, yeah.

00:44:05.960 If you don't know, otherwise it's until you start to realize that the spiritual realm

00:44:09.700 is, is everything hinges on consent.

00:44:12.200 Well, yeah.

00:44:12.740 Technically it hinges on a thought, like, uh, um, ownership.

00:44:16.060 So you have no ownership there, even though they have no right to be there.

00:44:19.020 Yeah.

00:44:19.160 They're like, get out of here.

00:44:21.060 I had a very similar situation though.

00:44:23.860 Um, I'm not going to hash out the whole story, but when I moved into a new house, I

00:44:27.080 went through some strange stuff for a while until I realized like, I am the new owner of

00:44:32.900 this home and I have to take authority over it and tell these things to leave in the name

00:44:38.280 of Christ because they have no authority here.

00:44:40.460 I am the one who owns this property.

00:44:43.540 And I think, you know, it's all, it's all legalese.

00:44:46.680 It's all consent.

00:44:47.440 You said something that, that prompted a question in my mind here.

00:44:50.680 You're talking about how somebody from your coven is now a Christian.

00:44:57.040 And I wonder, um, if we could talk a little bit about that, your, your coven, you know,

00:45:04.860 the people that you met actually met up with in real life.

00:45:08.200 Um, what did you guys do together?

00:45:10.800 And also what, where I imagine these people become fast friends.

00:45:15.880 So then what are their opinions when you stop showing up for your weekly, uh, witch meeting?

00:45:22.300 Um, I mean, it was, so the coven was in high school and we remained friends like through

00:45:29.080 our twenties and obviously I'm still good friends.

00:45:32.160 I'm in my thirties now and I'm still, she's my best friend.

00:45:35.680 Um, but we, so we would do some minor spells and like promise each other to each other.

00:45:45.060 And like, we're going to be friends forever.

00:45:47.640 And we felt like the universe was like butterflies would like buy in and like land on us and stuff.

00:45:56.660 Like when we were doing these things.

00:45:58.460 So we took that to mean we're in the right track.

00:46:01.080 We're doing the right thing.

00:46:02.080 We're in one, we're one with mother nature and all of that stuff.

00:46:06.700 And, um, so, and we did a lot of, it was mostly like studying and like palm reading and, you

00:46:14.600 know, all the cheesy, typical, like new age, occult.

00:46:18.900 Ouija boards?

00:46:20.180 No, we never did a Ouija board, but we did do tarot cards.

00:46:23.260 We did do the tarot cards and we all, we believed in reincarnation.

00:46:28.300 And like, I believed I had committed suicide in a previous life and I had a lot of suicidal, uh,

00:46:35.580 predications and I, um, yeah, I struggled with self-harm and, um, so did, so did my friends in the

00:46:45.360 coven, which we didn't know that until later on in life when we like talked about it with one

00:46:51.040 another, like we all were experiencing self-harm.

00:46:53.960 Um, and yeah, so, I mean, so she became a Christian first and she admitted to me that

00:47:04.420 she was a conservative and I was still, you know, up to my eyeballs and the occult and was

00:47:13.260 like shocked because I had blue hair and facial piercings and I could not believe that my best

00:47:20.720 friend was a conservative and then when she became a Christian, I was like, what, who are

00:47:28.780 you?

00:47:29.100 I don't even know who you are.

00:47:30.320 Uh, but because of our history, I did not like flip out at her, but I, I think that that

00:47:36.980 is like, was a seed that helped to lead me out of, um, that path too.

00:47:43.040 So, so what was her experience that drove her, cause I imagine she had to explain this

00:47:49.040 to you, um, what, what had her back away and become, you know, a conservative and a Christian?

00:47:55.120 I'm not sure about the conservative part, but, uh, her mother was diagnosed with cancer and,

00:48:01.560 um, she began going to church.

00:48:06.200 The mother began going to church and, um, she survived the cancer and, um, my friend had

00:48:16.720 done all of this praying and, um, I think she saw, uh, I forget the specifics, but she saw

00:48:25.900 some sort of like confirmation from God that he was real and present and that her mother

00:48:32.020 was going to be healed and he, she was healed.

00:48:34.800 So I'm not, I, she needs to get up on the internet and share her testimony.

00:48:39.960 So when she watches this, like you need to get on and share your testimony.

00:48:44.100 So, yeah, we'd be very interested in, in talking to her.

00:48:46.960 Um, oftentimes it's a personal experience that causes somebody to, to pivot in that way.

00:48:52.580 And, you know, based off of what you're describing here, that fits that bill.

00:48:55.900 When you were immersed in this and you were convinced that there were spiritual entities

00:49:02.240 and various ways that you could affect things on the spiritual realm, did you have an outlook

00:49:09.580 of good and evil or were these things not so cut and dry in your mind?

00:49:15.040 And there was no greater good and greater evil.

00:49:18.320 I thought everything was gray.

00:49:19.960 It was all shades of gray.

00:49:21.380 I didn't believe in, um, like I felt every, there was no true evil.

00:49:26.980 There was no true good.

00:49:29.160 So like, even, uh, in terms of like the Holocaust, like I felt like, well, these people, we don't

00:49:35.820 know, like these people's like lived experience and how, um, we don't know what like drove them.

00:49:41.760 Anyway, it was not real, but I thought everything was gray.

00:49:47.100 So I didn't, because I feel like I turned this corner one day in my perception of the world

00:49:57.100 where I very much thought that there was a much greater gray area, um, in all matters.

00:50:05.600 And as I got older, I realized that that gray area is a place that you can get stuck in

00:50:13.580 and become indecisive and a bit of a fence sitter.

00:50:17.700 And in all matters, cultural, political, and, uh, spiritual, I think the middle is almost

00:50:26.580 just as bad as the bad side.

00:50:29.580 You know what I mean?

00:50:30.460 So we're, we're, we're perceiving everything as mostly gray and there is no greater good or

00:50:34.180 evil.

00:50:35.000 Um, there is in fact a greater good and evil and you're either on the side of good or

00:50:41.400 really it's just all the bad side because these entities, if they can't get you to adhere to

00:50:49.000 them, they just certainly don't want you to adhere to God.

00:50:53.180 So they'll take even sitting in the middle.

00:50:56.180 Yeah, I agree.

00:50:58.260 Like I, so I saw everything is gray back then.

00:51:00.980 And now, like you said, the older that I get and the more experience I have, it's, so there's

00:51:08.200 everything it's black or white.

00:51:11.620 You know what I mean?

00:51:12.260 Like, so when you're sitting in the middle, it's like, there's a, um, you're still in the

00:51:18.260 shadow.

00:51:18.800 I think like there's the shadow still has like its control on you.

00:51:22.540 And like, I think you can get closer and closer to the good, but, um, yeah, like if you're

00:51:28.820 in a gray area, this shadow just has its claws in you and you just don't realize it.

00:51:34.120 Uh, yeah.

00:51:35.220 Like in the Bible, it says that he, if you're not hot or cold, like if you're lukewarm, he's

00:51:42.100 going to spit you out.

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00:53:00.040 Biltong is not just food, but a way of life.

00:53:02.780 So I think that it's very true.

00:53:07.040 And what's interesting is there's almost a feeling of altruism where, or at least like

00:53:13.420 somehow immersing yourself in the nuance is somehow seen as a good thing.

00:53:22.360 And, and I, I, I do think there is something to be said about somebody who can see that

00:53:28.940 there are finer details to a topic, but I think what is significantly greater is someone who

00:53:39.140 is able to galvanize themselves.

00:53:41.500 I mean, shit, almost even to one side or the other.

00:53:44.560 I said it yesterday when it was like, we were talking about softer versions of, of

00:53:49.720 Satanism.

00:53:50.220 And there are those who are doing it as a LARP and an affront to Christianity and a

00:53:54.740 affront to conservatism and things like that.

00:53:56.940 And they don't really believe in this on a spiritual level.

00:53:59.100 And I do think that that is almost worse than somebody who was convicted and says, these

00:54:04.560 entities are real and I seek to serve them.

00:54:06.600 Obviously that's terrible, but there is something bad about a lack of conviction.

00:54:15.760 And then also to dedicate yourself to something that you don't even believe is real.

00:54:19.760 Dedicating, you know, a disproportionate amount of time to, to an act or a joke or, you know,

00:54:25.780 sticking your nose up at another organization instead of pursuing something that you're passionate

00:54:29.980 about is, is, is wild.

00:54:31.500 Um, I wanted to get back to this bird monster.

00:54:36.980 Um, and we've kind of danced around this idea that this is likely Lilith because Lilith is

00:54:42.620 described as the night monster.

00:54:44.140 It's described as this harpy.

00:54:46.860 Um, it kind of sounds like you saw this more than twice.

00:54:51.460 Is that, is that the case?

00:54:52.700 Have you seen this a lot?

00:54:54.240 Um, so I, like I said, I had those reoccurring dreams and then I didn't see, I had a fear of

00:55:01.420 birds for like this, this random fear of birds for years.

00:55:08.440 And, um, I don't know, I guess when I became a Christian, like that went away, but I didn't

00:55:13.100 recognize it until recently.

00:55:15.480 And I, the, yeah, I've only seen it a few times.

00:55:19.980 And then, like I said, the dream that was a bird woman.

00:55:23.520 Like she had a female face and then there were like these feathers and like, like bird

00:55:30.220 claws and like, but yeah.

00:55:32.920 So, I mean, I didn't see, there were like owls and things that would like, like hang around

00:55:39.320 my house and like scream, like scream, like screech owls.

00:55:43.340 And, um, I'm sure you've come across it in your research that these things are correlated.

00:55:49.800 Yes.

00:55:50.460 And, uh, yeah, so I haven't, but ever since like that dream where like my son like stuck

00:55:57.800 his head in, I have not had any more, um, like encounters with, with her or it or whatever.

00:56:06.040 Um, and I don't have a fear of birds anymore.

00:56:08.260 So I don't know if like God delivered me at that point.

00:56:10.820 I was an early Christian when I first became a Christian, I still had a ton of new age

00:56:16.160 beliefs and like, you know, I believed in like Christ consciousness and all of that stuff.

00:56:21.300 So I don't know.

00:56:23.640 Sometimes I think that God sends us people.

00:56:26.340 My, my wife, the same way your son poked his head into a dream.

00:56:30.400 Uh, my wife had the uncanny ability to wake me up from sleep paralysis when I used to be

00:56:34.740 plagued by it.

00:56:36.320 And I, I mean, that was like, I was, I already really liked her.

00:56:40.820 But that was, that helped a lot.

00:56:43.320 Yeah.

00:56:43.900 Because, uh, you know what it's like, it's like, if you're in sleep paralysis, the, the

00:56:47.220 feeling of dread and, and, uh, despair is so intense and to be, uh, it very much feels

00:56:55.080 like you're rescued from that when somebody wakes you up from it.

00:56:57.320 So you're like screaming for somebody to come and wake you up.

00:57:00.040 Right.

00:57:00.480 Help me.

00:57:01.000 Help me.

00:57:01.420 And everyone's just like, yeah.

00:57:03.340 And so I, I, I always got the feeling that, um, you know, there's, there's more than one

00:57:09.300 reason why God will send a person to you.

00:57:11.540 But when, when people that are so close to you also have that sort of a function, you know,

00:57:16.760 who's closer to you than your son.

00:57:18.460 And then add another layer on it.

00:57:20.420 He has the ability to pop his glowing head into your dream realm and cast out Lilith or

00:57:24.520 whatever, you know, that's pretty, that's pretty handy.

00:57:26.940 Yeah, I agree.

00:57:28.840 Um, my, so just thinking about that, um, when, whenever there's like a spirit that is trying

00:57:37.440 to attach to me, I'll get, I'll hear a ringing, like a super loud, like a ring, like sort of

00:57:44.740 like tinnitus, but it's like, it's a short time, you know?

00:57:49.640 So the first time it happened to me was when I prayed over that girl's house without her

00:57:54.940 permission.

00:57:55.300 I like heard that ringing.

00:57:57.240 And then later on that night, I, I thought that something was going to happen.

00:58:02.280 Um, the first time that happened, like when I prayed and later on that night, my son,

00:58:07.080 the one with the dreams, um, I have three children.

00:58:10.020 So the one with the dreams had, um, some, he was, I was standing in my bedroom and he

00:58:15.580 was in the living room and he started yelling like, who's there, who's there.

00:58:20.600 So I, I came running in and he said that somebody had clapped right in front of his face.

00:58:26.500 And then he was like, is it possible for angels to be evil?

00:58:30.140 Is what he said to me.

00:58:31.220 And I was like, oh, uh, upsetting question.

00:58:34.400 Um, actually, actually, yeah, that's how Genesis six, that's a very unsettling question though.

00:58:41.040 Yeah.

00:58:41.320 I had never brought that up to him before he came to that conclusion on his own.

00:58:44.960 Um, but I, I say that the ringing, uh, for me was like, oh, maybe that means that there's

00:58:52.960 a spirit trying to attach to me.

00:58:55.680 Um, so I've had it happen numerous times since then.

00:58:59.200 And the night when the spirit attached to my son and was like in him and like torturing

00:59:04.580 him, um, I heard it then too.

00:59:07.200 Well, my husband, uh, is a Freemason and I have been praying for discernment, like for

00:59:14.340 God to give my husband discernment, help him to, if the root of Freemasonry is evil, help

00:59:21.040 him to see it because as his wife, it's, I can't say like, you're not allowed to do this.

00:59:27.700 You know what I mean?

00:59:28.200 Like he's, he's the head of our home.

00:59:30.700 He is, I don't, I don't want him to like resent me or feel controlled or whatever.

00:59:35.560 So I've been praying.

00:59:37.180 Yeah.

00:59:37.840 So we had, he had put up this big Freemason poster with like all of these symbols all over

00:59:43.480 it.

00:59:43.800 Um, and our closet, which we have a large closet with like a chair and stuff.

00:59:49.260 So that's where he would sit and do his thinking or scrolling or whatever.

00:59:52.960 So I had been praying for discernment for him.

00:59:57.180 And one morning recently, all of a sudden he starts hearing this ringing and he's like,

01:00:03.480 my ears ringing.

01:00:05.080 And I had run up to him and I'm like, I bind you spirit in the name of Jesus.

01:00:10.160 And it stopped.

01:00:12.820 He was like, and he used to have seizures as a kid.

01:00:16.760 And he said he would hear the ringing before he would have seizures.

01:00:20.740 And, uh, they couldn't, he had like scans done and they couldn't identify a cause for

01:00:25.360 the seizures.

01:00:26.140 Right.

01:00:27.140 So he heard the ringing and I ran up and I bound it.

01:00:31.500 And I was like, I, I cast you out devil, like, come out, like that kind of stuff.

01:00:36.380 And he was like, what is, what is happening right now?

01:00:39.840 Uh, but it stopped, it stopped.

01:00:41.640 And then he was like freaked out.

01:00:43.380 And this happened right in front of the poster.

01:00:45.720 And, um, I was like, can we get rid of the poster?

01:00:49.340 And he said, yes.

01:00:50.540 And he did.

01:00:50.800 What's on the poster?

01:00:51.940 Um, it's a bunch of Freemasons.

01:00:53.600 So it was like the history of Freemasons and like a line.

01:00:57.520 And it had like all the different branches of Freemasonry.

01:01:01.240 There's tons of them and like history and symbols and yeah.

01:01:06.420 So.

01:01:06.760 Is he still in it?

01:01:08.280 Yeah.

01:01:08.660 And he hasn't, he, I don't, I don't know if he's been to a session since that happened.

01:01:14.920 So I don't know.

01:01:16.800 We'll see.

01:01:17.740 I wonder when it comes to the ringing, that's actually very fascinating to me.

01:01:22.740 Everybody we're about to drink.

01:01:24.020 Everyone's about to drink.

01:01:25.020 No, no, no, no.

01:01:25.620 I'm not going that way.

01:01:26.640 I was just going to say it's something that happens to, I would imagine everybody.

01:01:31.480 And it certainly happens to me.

01:01:33.300 And when it does happen to me, I feel the overwhelming urge that I should be paying attention

01:01:39.320 to something specific at that moment.

01:01:42.040 Although I never can lock into whatever it is.

01:01:44.680 Um, and I just wonder if there's a, there's a significance to that because there are certain

01:01:49.500 things that happen in the human experience that everybody experiences, but we give very

01:01:54.440 little credence to.

01:01:55.340 For example, um, deja vu is a, is a fascinating one in the sense that everybody experiences

01:02:00.940 it, but there's simply nothing to be said about it.

01:02:03.480 And what's even more wild is you can kind of call it like a feeling or a sensation.

01:02:09.140 People have sensations that everybody understands.

01:02:12.460 I'm well, I'm hungry.

01:02:13.400 That means you got to eat something or I'm sad.

01:02:15.340 It's because something sad happened.

01:02:16.520 And it's weird that we all have this conjoined sensation of, well, it feels like time itself

01:02:21.900 is repeating.

01:02:23.180 Uh, I've lived this moment before to some extent and Oh, it's still going.

01:02:27.840 It's still going.

01:02:28.580 And then all of a sudden it ends and you're like, yeah, it's done now, but it was going

01:02:31.740 on for like 45 seconds.

01:02:32.920 And it's just strange because everybody has that feeling, but there's no information to

01:02:40.020 derive from the experience.

01:02:41.260 So there's no discussion to be had.

01:02:43.000 So even though we all know what it feels like to have time repeating on some sort of strange

01:02:46.560 loop, there's nothing to be said about it.

01:02:48.920 And so I just find that insane that, you know, what that feeling is.

01:02:53.120 And it's the same way with the ringing in the ears.

01:02:55.700 There's so much folklore built around that.

01:02:57.540 It's like, well, when your ears are ringing, someone's talking about you.

01:03:00.260 Ah, yep.

01:03:01.160 And even that is like, oh, so you think this is significant too, right?

01:03:06.660 Like that's, that's the real takeaway from it.

01:03:08.900 In my opinion is like, oh, people have always thought that this is significant, but you know,

01:03:14.340 there's a bunch of different reasons for it.

01:03:15.640 And so when you say, um, that it, I mean, how would you describe it?

01:03:21.140 What is your interpretation?

01:03:21.940 When your ears start ringing, that is your cue to look for what?

01:03:26.380 Um, I think it's like a spiritual alarm, essentially.

01:03:31.160 Um, like the, I don't know if it's the spirit or your body is like feeling something happening

01:03:36.660 in the spirit realm.

01:03:37.940 Um, and my opinion is like, our consciousness is like out here and our brains are like a

01:03:45.420 filter for our consciousness.

01:03:47.720 And I think that entities are able to come into us through whatever is happening out here

01:03:55.620 in the spirit realm.

01:03:56.420 Um, so I think we're spiritual beings and a material body, right?

01:04:00.720 So I think that when the ringing is happening, there is a demon attempting to infiltrate you.

01:04:08.620 Oh, that's fascinating.

01:04:09.880 Well, that's, I mean, it makes a lot of sense with the COVID stuff, right?

01:04:13.100 Where you, you had to stay six feet away.

01:04:14.840 There's something about that, like toroidal field.

01:04:17.240 You ever, have you ever seen that donut around you?

01:04:19.300 I believe that too.

01:04:20.480 You can tell when someone just another physical being is close to you.

01:04:24.400 Uh, you don't even, you don't have to see them.

01:04:26.520 You just kind of like feel them.

01:04:28.280 There's like a weird magnetic charge.

01:04:29.940 So I don't doubt that that happens with the spiritual realm, but I was, I was getting

01:04:33.940 at the, we should all drink because I thought you were going to Jerry Marzinski with, with

01:04:38.200 the noise, um, licensed psychotherapist in the field for 35 years, yada, yada, yada.

01:04:42.320 We tell this story a thousand times, but, uh, one of his stories where he's sitting at his

01:04:46.520 desk and he's talking to a patient and, uh, he hears a crackling noise that travels across

01:04:51.240 his, his wall behind his head and into a garbage can.

01:04:55.660 And, uh, it turns out that that crackling noise wasn't some kind of entity that was

01:04:59.920 talking to his patient, telling him to kill him right then and there.

01:05:04.060 And he, he, he heard it.

01:05:06.060 He perceived it as like a free, as like a TV static, which actually goes back to your TV

01:05:11.520 static, man.

01:05:12.200 It's like a, like this crackling TV static noise that's traveling across, across the wall.

01:05:16.740 So these things are here, but we're perceiving them, uh, as frequency or vibration, which is

01:05:24.800 right.

01:05:25.480 And the same thing will happen in sleep paralysis associated with the phenomenon.

01:05:30.760 There is this, everybody drink, um, associated with this phenomenon of sleep paralysis is

01:05:36.820 this intense, um, some people will describe it as a, a vibration.

01:05:42.220 It's like a buzzing.

01:05:42.980 I mean, I've, I've felt it as, um, what felt like I've never been tasered, but it seemed

01:05:50.180 like a taser almost like I had been electrocuted.

01:05:55.040 There was current running through my body.

01:05:57.020 It was so powerful that it was audible, but also, um, I could feel it in my bones.

01:06:02.560 So I didn't even have to hear it because I think if something, you know, they have those

01:06:06.340 headphones, you could put them on.

01:06:07.540 They don't even go in your ears.

01:06:08.800 They rest on your skull and you could still hear clear as day, even though this is resonating

01:06:13.840 through your skull instead of through your eardrums.

01:06:15.500 Um, yeah, I think that I wouldn't even, if I had to audibly heard it, I still would have

01:06:21.460 gotten that sensation either way, because it just felt like I was being electrocuted.

01:06:25.420 So my body stiffens up and the emotion, by the way, that's associated with this type

01:06:33.840 of frequency is dread.

01:06:36.160 And when I say that, I mean, I know this is old hat sleep paralysis, which is almost, I

01:06:42.420 feel bad in this realm that we're in where we're discussing conspiracy and spirituality.

01:06:46.760 We just, nobody wants to hear about sleep paralysis anymore.

01:06:50.260 It's kind of this old thing, right?

01:06:51.560 I think it's cool.

01:06:52.340 It's interesting.

01:06:52.560 I mean, I, I, I think it's fascinating, but, um, it, it evokes this feeling of dread

01:06:58.140 unlike any other experience.

01:07:01.160 It's, it's unnatural.

01:07:02.360 It doesn't even feel like it's your dread.

01:07:03.680 It feels like it's been given to you.

01:07:05.180 Like you're the recipient of this feeling instead of it being, um, generated from within

01:07:11.340 and it's a, it's a doozy.

01:07:14.720 So it's like, whatever's going on, there's the minor version.

01:07:18.780 It seems like where you can get that frequency, but it's an audible one.

01:07:22.100 And maybe you're right.

01:07:22.840 Maybe it's an alarm sounding off.

01:07:24.420 And then if you dial that all the way up, it's like somehow your spirit is in danger

01:07:29.160 and that's accompanied with a physical sensation, an audible sensation, you know, this intense

01:07:35.760 buzzing and vibration.

01:07:37.040 And, you know, it's, but it's, it all seems to be the same thing.

01:07:40.320 Just dialed down or up.

01:07:41.620 I didn't even make that connection, but I think that's, I mean, that's exactly, I think that's

01:07:46.220 exactly right.

01:07:47.000 Um, I have not even, I have not made that connection.

01:07:49.280 The same thing happens to me.

01:07:50.620 And like, I used to astral project and, um, you sort of use sleep paralysis and like that

01:07:57.780 state to, uh, it's like you're, you're switching channels.

01:08:01.960 So you have to like, um, sort of ride the wave, like, uh, as like your frequencies change,

01:08:09.080 uh, with like the buzzing, you can like send yourself out of your body.

01:08:13.460 Um, so it is, it's literally like that on a smaller scale.

01:08:18.980 That is, I think, wow, that's profound.

01:08:21.840 Well, okay.

01:08:22.740 Cause we're going into something that is endlessly fascinating to both top.

01:08:26.220 And I, I think we don't talk about it, but I do believe every time somebody mentions astral

01:08:31.900 projection, me and top, we both kind of like go on.

01:08:35.040 What'd you say you do?

01:08:36.460 Go on.

01:08:37.200 Um, um, this experience, how does it get on your radar?

01:08:42.220 How did you end up practicing it?

01:08:45.020 What are some of the results that it's yielded?

01:08:47.300 Okay.

01:08:47.860 So as a kid, I, when a trick that I would have when I was falling asleep, I would know that

01:08:55.460 I was almost asleep because I could see through my eyelids and I was like, okay, I'm almost

01:09:00.260 asleep because I can see through my eyelids.

01:09:02.220 And then as an adult, I, um, heard about astral projection and I was like, that's stupid.

01:09:10.200 And then I heard, I read on the CIA website project, project Stargate and how the CIA has

01:09:19.080 confirmed that essentially astral projection is a real phenomenon.

01:09:24.460 And so I was like, okay, I'm going to try this.

01:09:26.960 So I started reading about people's experiences and how seeing through your eyelids is one

01:09:35.360 of the ways, you know, like you've done it or one of the ways, you know, like, um, it

01:09:41.580 can seem like you're, cause you are awake, but it's also not reality.

01:09:48.560 So sometimes you can think, am I dreaming?

01:09:51.120 Am I really awake?

01:09:52.720 Like, what is that?

01:09:53.440 Like, especially if you don't know about astral projection, um, like, have you ever, uh, had

01:09:59.200 an alarm go off?

01:10:00.600 Like when, like when you were a kid and you would get up and get ready and then you would

01:10:06.160 wake up again and you would realize you'd never know anything.

01:10:09.660 Yeah.

01:10:10.000 That's essentially, uh, some people say that like, that's astral projecting is like you

01:10:15.660 were astral projecting, but you didn't realize it, um, and you would just like go about your

01:10:19.860 day and then you would wake up again.

01:10:21.480 Or, um, so that, so I had that happen all the time.

01:10:26.660 Right.

01:10:27.160 Um, so I, so I, I forget exactly how I discovered about it, but I learned how to do it.

01:10:34.800 Uh, there's many different methods you can use, but the one I would use was, um, intentionally

01:10:41.080 triggering sleep paralysis and then, um, using the vibrations to, uh, essentially like eject

01:10:51.380 yourself, like into the spirit realm or the astral realm.

01:10:55.680 Um, when you say that you can see through your eyelids, you're seeing your room still,

01:11:00.120 right?

01:11:00.300 Like, in other words, you're drifting off to sleep, but suddenly you're able to see your

01:11:03.860 room again.

01:11:04.480 Yep.

01:11:04.920 But then the vibrations are, the vibrations you're describing are like when you're, cause

01:11:09.860 when I have sleep paralysis, it feels like, uh, like I am being like, just like violent.

01:11:15.740 It's uncomfortable.

01:11:16.840 It's like electrocuted.

01:11:18.320 Okay.

01:11:18.600 So you're actually using that to slip.

01:11:20.380 Right.

01:11:21.080 Right.

01:11:21.360 So that's interesting because I hate that state of being like, yeah, I don't want to hang

01:11:26.580 out there at all.

01:11:27.520 I tell the story all the time.

01:11:29.360 I, sorry, go, go ahead.

01:11:31.200 Um, so your brain, your brain waves shift when you, uh, enter into sleep mode, when your

01:11:38.900 body goes into sleep, your brain waves become larger and deeper and you are, your brain is

01:11:45.520 always sending out waves, but we can't feel them because they're so, uh, like high pitched

01:11:51.420 so fast.

01:11:52.240 Like it's just, we don't, we don't perceive it, but in sleep paralysis, you're feeling

01:11:56.440 your brain waves and they're, uh, they go throughout, like you said, there's a whole, uh, field

01:12:03.620 around you full of waves that you are emitting.

01:12:07.460 And, um, so with sleep paralysis, you're feeling your sleep cycle brain waves.

01:12:13.080 I forget what they're called.

01:12:14.440 Um, yeah, something like that.

01:12:17.940 Um, so when you went to astral project, you, instead of fighting those waves, you lean into

01:12:26.660 them and eventually you'll be able to sit up.

01:12:31.460 There's different ways to leave your body.

01:12:33.340 Um, but when you're, when you're in sleep paralysis, instead of like screaming and like

01:12:40.020 trying so hard, like just lean into it and then you can like eventually roll out.

01:12:45.320 Um, I, I would do the rollout method, but there's different ways.

01:12:48.940 I would do the rollout method.

01:12:49.640 This is what I said.

01:12:50.540 I tell you guys all the time when, uh, like I'll, I'll watch the Yankee game, watching

01:12:55.080 Michael K sitting in my uncle's living room, same sort of thing.

01:12:58.600 I suppose it's like a paralysis, like a, because it's like, it's an uncomfortable, there's an

01:13:03.340 uncomfortable like feeling.

01:13:04.580 I could like, I can audibly hear it.

01:13:06.360 Um, my, my hearing is zoomed in on Michael K talking, but there's like a weird vibration

01:13:11.740 around me and then I'll just be out of my body.

01:13:14.740 But like, I'd never go far.

01:13:15.940 I'm like in the corner of the room watching myself and my uncle and my dad watch TV.

01:13:21.400 And I'm like, what the fuck is this?

01:13:23.580 Hated it.

01:13:25.420 But it always happened.

01:13:26.880 Like I said, it always happened watching the Yankees in this one place.

01:13:31.620 Like the conditions in this place were correct for that to happen.

01:13:36.080 Maybe the type of TV that it was coming through.

01:13:38.280 I don't, I don't know, but it's not something that I like to do.

01:13:41.180 And sometimes I think as a child, um, you kind of create the conditions too.

01:13:46.600 So if there's a familiar aspect to this, it almost falls into the realm of like ritual.

01:13:52.980 So here I am again in the same environment with the same people watching the same thing

01:13:57.300 in the same state of mind.

01:13:58.580 Um, and I think that sometimes that's enough to put us in a form of autopilot and it allows

01:14:07.320 our consciousness to do something else because we've been here so many times.

01:14:10.660 This is a well-worked groove.

01:14:12.160 So I used to have a similar thing where I'd be watching the TV at night, you know, same

01:14:16.460 thing sitting on my, well, I slept on like a futon as a kid and, um, I'd be on the futon.

01:14:23.280 I'd be watching the show.

01:14:24.080 It's, you know, the same time at night and I would always go through the same sensation

01:14:27.540 where I would get like tunnel vision and the room would seem incredibly stretched out

01:14:31.140 and the TV would get really small and far away feeling.

01:14:34.960 And then all that kind of weird stuff would start happening.

01:14:37.780 So sometimes I think, you know, just because you mentioned, is it the type of TV or something?

01:14:42.340 I think even that probably, yeah.

01:14:43.480 Like those old tube TVs in particular, I think they probably have a certain way because they

01:14:49.080 are often tied into this experience, you know, going back to that description of static, like

01:14:54.320 that static sensation.

01:14:56.600 When you first turn a tube TV on and it changes the vibe of the room, you can tell when it gets

01:15:01.200 turned off and electrical buzzing stops and the atmosphere changes.

01:15:04.840 Well, yeah, there's even elements like with, with the guitar.

01:15:07.780 Um, people will kill you over, uh, solid state amps versus tube amps, which are solid state

01:15:13.820 is just like computer chips and stuff sounds really good.

01:15:16.800 So you guys wouldn't be able to tell, but if you're like an experienced guitar player and

01:15:21.480 you have a tube amplifier, um, well the, a modern day solid state amplifier could replicate

01:15:27.060 the exact sound and tone and all that stuff that you're going to get.

01:15:29.920 So you'll sound like Carlos Santana, but if you're actually playing through his stack with,

01:15:34.580 with the tube amplifier, with like a Marshall stack, whatever he's playing, there's a different

01:15:39.140 feeling to it.

01:15:39.740 There's a different tonality like on you and you're keenly aware of that.

01:15:45.140 Whereas, so there is something to that technology and like, it's, it's, it's being played with.

01:15:50.300 There's a replication of it.

01:15:51.360 And you're changing the atmosphere of, of the area that you're in, which I think is, is, you

01:15:57.060 know, certainly it's going to have its, um, sort of implications when it comes to this

01:16:02.100 thing.

01:16:02.300 If these things are all based off of frequency and, and, uh, harmonics, but I wanted to ask

01:16:07.380 you when you're doing this, what's kept me from doing this is, um, the overwhelming feeling

01:16:14.880 that something in the room was, you know, something was there and it was negative.

01:16:20.320 Yeah.

01:16:21.000 And I think that that played a pretty great role in me resisting this at all costs and

01:16:28.320 trying to get back to a normal state.

01:16:30.340 Yeah.

01:16:30.420 What I'm asking you was, uh, did you not have that sensation?

01:16:35.280 Was, was, was your feeling of slipping into sleep paralysis, something that was much more,

01:16:39.760 um, neutrally emotionally charged because for me, it was supremely negatively emotionally

01:16:46.100 charged and I didn't want to hang out in whatever state of existence this was any longer.

01:16:51.660 Um, it was always negative until I wanted to do the astral projection.

01:16:57.820 So it, um, right.

01:17:00.940 So I would always feel attacked and I always assumed that there was some sort of like paranormal

01:17:05.300 aspect to any time I would have like a sleep paralysis attack, but with the, um, astral

01:17:13.260 projection there, uh, it wasn't like that.

01:17:16.480 Like it wasn't terrifying.

01:17:18.820 And I mean, but I also really wanted to do it and I would sort of like pray to my higher

01:17:24.940 self, my higher self to, um, help me in getting out of my body.

01:17:30.400 So I don't know.

01:17:32.020 Interesting.

01:17:32.460 Do you think that you were, were you praying to some aspect of yourself or was something

01:17:37.460 else standing in that position pretending?

01:17:40.120 I think there was something exterior helping me out because I had more success when I would

01:17:45.720 do that, like pray to my higher self to help me get out versus not.

01:17:50.800 And I don't know.

01:17:52.020 I think, uh, undeniably there are spiritual aspects to it, you know?

01:17:58.620 Um, so I never saw anything particularly terrifying.

01:18:02.780 Um, I did have a couple of encounters with like entities, but I, um, very like pretty quickly

01:18:14.180 after learning how to astral project and like figuring out how to do it.

01:18:20.120 Um, I became a Christian and, um, and then I started having, we had like these demonic

01:18:27.040 attacks and stuff.

01:18:28.260 And like, so I sort of dropped off of that and now whenever sleep paralysis starts, starts

01:18:36.720 to happen, I know what it is that's happening.

01:18:39.680 So, and just like saying Jesus or praying is like releases me from it.

01:18:45.220 So I think that, um, astral projection, I mean, it's fun.

01:18:51.020 It's, it's exciting getting to like go into the astral realm, but I think it leaves you

01:18:55.620 very vulnerable.

01:18:57.240 And, um, like I've spoken to people where something like they felt like something rode back in with

01:19:03.460 them and now they have another presence like that is in their body.

01:19:08.160 And I think most people have like spirits attached to them, but they don't recognize that.

01:19:13.980 They don't feel that they're there.

01:19:15.640 They're not like constantly being tormented.

01:19:18.660 So they just, but in this case with this person, they could feel that there was an entity

01:19:23.500 with them after doing it.

01:19:25.500 And so, you know, like you can supposedly, if you run into a negative, a low vibration

01:19:33.640 being AKA a demon, um, that you can send love or positive energy at it.

01:19:41.320 And it's supposed to like make it go away.

01:19:44.720 But I mean, I just think that's a load of BS.

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01:20:45.440 So, you know.

01:20:47.860 Does this resonate with you?

01:20:49.480 Um, I think that God answers prayers when they're mailed to the right address, meaning

01:20:59.020 you definitively know who you're praying to.

01:21:00.760 And that other things will half-ass answer prayers, always with some terrible strings attached.

01:21:09.220 Um, and they don't really care about the mailing address.

01:21:13.820 They don't care if it's specific.

01:21:15.060 Meaning, like, if you pray to something and it gets generally close enough to a little-

01:21:22.800 You pray to the universe?

01:21:23.700 Great example, Topp.

01:21:25.780 Yes.

01:21:26.100 You pray to the universe.

01:21:27.460 Well, then something's going to pick that up and they're going to run with it and they're

01:21:29.760 going to show you something that seems promising to get you on the line.

01:21:35.320 But when it comes to God, you've got to be very specific.

01:21:39.320 Uh, I do believe he answers prayers, but it can't be the universe, you know, whoever that-

01:21:46.420 Some amorphous thing.

01:21:47.620 Do you think that that-

01:21:49.200 I agree 100%.

01:21:50.920 Like, absolutely.

01:21:52.640 And God does answer prayers, sometimes very quickly.

01:21:56.040 Um, like, I'll be praying for-

01:21:58.960 Like, I feel like deliverance has been placed on my heart and that God wants me to move toward-

01:22:06.460 Like, to try and help set people free who are in bondage, like I was in bondage.

01:22:12.740 And I feel like God has placed that on my heart.

01:22:15.160 So, like, recently I was praying, Lord, please let me see deliverance.

01:22:21.700 Please help me.

01:22:22.960 Please use me for deliverance.

01:22:24.220 And literally the next morning, um, I had a friend who is under spiritual attack, uh,

01:22:30.660 call me and say, I need to come over.

01:22:32.800 I need prayer.

01:22:33.700 I need help.

01:22:34.300 Like, that happened, like, literally within, like, 10 hours of me praying that.

01:22:39.880 And, um, yeah.

01:22:40.640 So, things like-

01:22:41.340 Things like that will happen.

01:22:42.420 Like, God will let you know, or he lets me know at least that he is listening.

01:22:48.160 And I don't know, some weird stuff like that will happen sometimes.

01:22:51.520 I agree.

01:22:52.600 Um, I've always been cautious in my prayers in that I do think they have to pass through a filter.

01:23:01.240 It's like, are you praying for something frivolous?

01:23:04.160 Yeah.

01:23:04.600 Because I think that's foolish, right?

01:23:05.820 So, I've never been the type to pray for that sort of thing.

01:23:07.960 But, um, I try to make sure that my prayers are two things.

01:23:14.340 Of a spiritual nature and first and foremost, in alignment with God's will.

01:23:18.800 So, in other words, if I'm praying for something that's just not in the cards for me or for somebody else that's not part of God's plan, then so be it.

01:23:25.600 But it has to fundamentally be part of God's, you know, greater will.

01:23:29.740 So, um, yeah, I mean, can we talk a little bit then about, I know you said you had some altercations or some run-ins with some entities.

01:23:39.900 And the way that you said that made it sound like there's not too much to unpack there.

01:23:45.120 Uh, that these were maybe, um, uh, cursory interactions.

01:23:51.280 But I would be interested in hearing them.

01:23:52.740 It's like, when you're astral projection, or astral projecting, rather, where are you going?

01:23:59.160 And, uh, even if these things were small, these interactions, to you, what were they like?

01:24:05.300 Um, so I wanted to go to, um, like Stonehenge and see the hinges in Scotland, also.

01:24:19.100 And, um, like, I've never been to Europe.

01:24:21.180 So I wanted to travel to Europe and see, you know, all of the, the different hinges, the, like, the stone, like, where ancient people placed all these massive stones.

01:24:32.020 And, um, so I would go there.

01:24:36.340 And also, I, like, astral projected to this place in Scotland.

01:24:43.180 And, like, I, uh, my heritage is, uh, Scottish and Swedish.

01:24:48.300 That's primarily, and a little bit of German.

01:24:50.600 But, so I was very interested in, like, the Scottish side.

01:24:54.660 And, um, so I went, I came to this place.

01:24:59.360 And they used to have, uh, they would, like, put, way back in the day, they would, like, use the ground as, like, a part of, like, their structure.

01:25:08.980 And they would, like, dig into the ground.

01:25:10.880 And then also have, like, put, uh, like, grass and, like, turf and stuff, like, on top of their buildings.

01:25:17.840 So it was, like, this, I felt like I had time traveled.

01:25:21.440 And I went back and was, like, seeing these structures, how they would have been.

01:25:26.220 And there was a dog entity there, uh, that was sort of, like, a guardian of sorts.

01:25:34.080 And, um, yeah, I don't know.

01:25:37.660 That's weird.

01:25:38.720 No, no, no.

01:25:39.640 This is, you're touching on something that seems to kind of peek its head out very often.

01:25:46.880 Yeah.

01:25:47.100 This element of the dog in particular.

01:25:49.380 Yeah.

01:25:49.580 Um, you know, obviously, if you're a fan of Tony Merkel's, you're familiar with the concept of dog man.

01:25:56.060 Yep.

01:25:56.500 There's certainly the, the concept of hellhounds.

01:25:59.960 Um, even.

01:26:02.060 Anubis.

01:26:03.000 Right.

01:26:03.840 So these dog-headed deities.

01:26:06.320 Um, and then, of course, going back to what I was talking about with my, my son.

01:26:10.340 Uh, this, this dog entity, uh, with red eyes that, that spoke English.

01:26:16.160 Um, it's interesting because dogs do seem to have some place in the hierarchy in the spiritual realm.

01:26:24.020 Whether or not they're humanoid or even just, you know, like a, like a, uh, a quad, quad petal, a four-legged dog.

01:26:31.320 Yeah.

01:26:31.620 Um, doesn't always have to be a dude walking around with a dog head.

01:26:34.940 I just think that's, that's strange.

01:26:36.240 Is it ever daytime when you're astral projecting?

01:26:38.980 Uh, yes, I have to, yeah.

01:26:41.920 And so this time that I'm describing was in the daytime.

01:26:44.920 Um, I was at home and it was daytime, but when I, anyway, in this realm, it was daytime.

01:26:50.340 Okay.

01:26:51.160 Yeah.

01:26:51.880 And, uh, the, this being was like a guardian of sorts, a guardian of this area or like the timeline or something.

01:27:01.800 Did it feel negative?

01:27:03.160 Yes, it was negative.

01:27:04.560 Oh.

01:27:05.220 Yeah.

01:27:05.400 He, and, uh, it is, I got like a male impression, but he like essentially chased me out of it.

01:27:13.400 Um, yeah.

01:27:14.760 And so I fled that area, but.

01:27:17.260 The immediate area of Stonehenge, you're saying this thing.

01:27:19.900 No.

01:27:20.300 So this was, I felt like I had gone back in time or it was like some sort of alternative timeline.

01:27:26.000 And it was like, uh, someplace in Scotland and it was like how they used to have like ancient, like stone age time, like how they would have their houses and they would like use them, put them like into the ground.

01:27:44.600 Um, it was sort of like a Hobbit ish, like Hobbiton, like, yeah, kind of a lot more like stone.

01:27:52.120 Um, but so that's like what it looked like.

01:27:55.080 And then this being was guarding that area.

01:27:58.440 Like I wasn't expecting him and he just like appeared and was surprised and angry and wanted me to leave.

01:28:06.400 So.

01:28:06.780 Do you get the feeling that you were in a different time or maybe could you have been in a different realm or aspect of a physical location in our reality?

01:28:18.680 Because oftentimes you hear the concept of this upside down and, um, and sometimes there are enough irregularities within the upside down that you may have like different structures where like generally it's the same geographical location, but sometimes there's enough variation where it's like that building didn't exist here, but it does there kind of.

01:28:39.000 That's very much how it is like when you astral project, it'll look the same, but in, in essence, but there will be differences like a house that has never had a, a fireplace will have a fireplace for example, or there'll be like extra buildings or things will be different colors.

01:28:59.140 And it's, it's, it's just, I don't know.

01:29:02.780 I, I feel like there is like in the spirit world, there is like a whole society, like thing it looks like here, but just a little like different how they want it to be.

01:29:17.360 But like, there's like a whole society, like a whole thing, whole existence going on all around us that we just have no idea about.

01:29:25.120 What is it, I've heard it described as, um, it almost looks like it functions like another society.

01:29:34.460 Yeah.

01:29:35.020 And then I, that makes me wonder about the function of the entities, beings, people, whatever that inhabit that realm.

01:29:42.500 What is, what is their lot in all of this?

01:29:44.340 Are they aware of them being in a realm that's parallel to ours?

01:29:51.760 Are they aware of our realm?

01:29:53.260 Are they aware that they were born fucked up?

01:29:57.820 Are they aware that we really don't like it when they show up?

01:30:02.380 Yeah.

01:30:02.660 Well, it's so, it's so weird.

01:30:04.980 I think some of them intentionally hate us and don't want good for us.

01:30:11.500 And they like to terrorize us.

01:30:13.080 And then like the, like, I don't think it's all demons, you know, like I, cause I, cause demons want to be like in your body sinning.

01:30:24.440 They enjoy sinning.

01:30:25.400 They desire it.

01:30:26.240 They need it.

01:30:26.900 So when they jump in our, when they're with us and pushing us to do various things, like, I feel like they are receiving like the joy, the pleasure of whatever sin you have, like lust or whatever.

01:30:41.400 And like, that's why that they're, that's why they're doing it because they're in chains of darkness, like in the spirit world.

01:30:49.700 And they can't feel anything unless they're like inside a human body.

01:30:53.780 Right.

01:30:54.280 But then on the other side of that, these people that are inhabiting this upside down almost seem like there's some rhyme or reason, some functionality to that realm.

01:31:02.360 Like, I've even heard people describe it like, yeah, or like they have a job, you know what I mean?

01:31:08.180 Like they're, they're, they're, yeah.

01:31:10.140 So that doesn't strike me as some, something that's yearning to inhabit a physical body so that it can sin as much as it's indicative of somebody just going through the motions of their everyday life.

01:31:21.480 In fact, I've even heard it described where, when you're astral projecting, they might be keyed into you being there, but are freaked out because they can't see you.

01:31:30.500 You know, so there's like, there's a lot of really weird stuff about this that, even on this show, go ahead.

01:31:37.600 My husband, he, he talked about this on the confessionals, but he saw a, a group of like, little people.

01:31:47.780 It, like, like, they were sort of like translucent-ish and it was at, it was at night and they were standing next to this great tree.

01:31:57.780 And it was like a circle of like, little fairy dwarf people.

01:32:03.880 And like, him and two other people all saw the same thing.

01:32:07.580 And they all were able to describe it to each other afterwards.

01:32:11.340 But like, what, they, like, they didn't, these people didn't do anything.

01:32:15.920 Like, these little people, like, they, they recognized that my husband was there and like, they were like startled.

01:32:23.140 And then my husband was terrified and ran away and they all ran away.

01:32:28.240 Right.

01:32:28.520 And if you have too much of a productionist point of view, they don't, then where do they fit in?

01:32:32.020 It's like, these aren't angels or demons.

01:32:33.600 Right.

01:32:33.780 You know, like.

01:32:34.380 What is that?

01:32:34.900 And so, like, I was watching the movie, the original Hellboy films, which are actually, they, they age really well.

01:32:41.600 I went back and watched them with my son recently.

01:32:43.500 And in the second movie, they delve into this realm that's inhabited by sort of goblins and various, almost like Celtic mythology creatures.

01:32:57.320 Like fairies and such.

01:32:58.500 And the way they get there is there is a portal that is under the London Bridge and they have to gain access to it by like speaking to the guard or whatever.

01:33:09.560 And I think a lot of things are hidden in fantasy that rhyme with something in reality, you know, in fictional films.

01:33:17.620 And I'm not saying that the base of the London Bridge has this other realm, but what I am saying is, I've heard enough testimony from people that describe things that you shouldn't see outside of the film Hellboy, or you shouldn't see outside of the film Lord of the Rings, or you shouldn't see, you know, insert your.

01:33:33.440 And, but yet, here people are telling these stories, and you can call them liars, but oftentimes there's patterns, if you care to look, that repeat themselves from one person's testimony to another, that make you go, either everybody's lying, or people are running into something that seemingly mirrors what we call, you know, fantasy Hollywood films.

01:33:57.040 And, you know, the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, Narnia, I've heard stories like that multiple times.

01:34:04.600 I've seen, I know this is something that's not, I've seen videos where people all of a sudden came into contact with something that looked like a garden gnome.

01:34:14.100 And all I can tell you is like, hey, it's just videos you see on the internet, but of the ones that I've seen, the people are so horrified that they react like somebody who's genuinely afraid of a mouse.

01:34:25.120 You ever see people, like, they get on a table, and they're screaming, and it's like, why are you so disproportionately afraid of this mouse?

01:34:31.420 Well, some people have that.

01:34:32.320 It sounds from a lot of me that I just.

01:34:33.780 Yeah, okay.

01:34:34.980 So, you'll know that that is a hard thing to fake.

01:34:38.800 Yeah.

01:34:39.300 That's a very, when you see something that, you know, you're up on a chair and you're screaming.

01:34:43.160 Well, I've seen people do that to things that look like gnomes.

01:34:46.540 And then I've heard stories of people seeing gnomes.

01:34:49.360 What business is there in this realm that we inhabit for tiny people with red pointy hats?

01:34:55.120 But I've heard that story a lot, more than I should have heard it for something that doesn't exist.

01:35:00.020 So, I am a Christian, and I believe in Jesus Christ, but I also sometimes wonder, like, did the Bible just not bother to talk about the gnomes because it wasn't important necessarily to what the Bible was trying to get across?

01:35:11.660 Because the Bible tells you something very specific.

01:35:13.320 And there's so much that is under the sun that isn't in the Bible, which we know is real, right?

01:35:18.680 Like, I don't know if the Bible is talking about chimpanzees, but we know that chimpanzees are real.

01:35:22.060 So, I just wonder if that wasn't a component that made it because that's not what this is about.

01:35:27.020 That's out there, but this is telling you something very specific.

01:35:30.200 But that is out there.

01:35:31.180 I think, like, I think it's a non-salvation issue.

01:35:34.480 And so, it isn't, so, I believe in Jesus.

01:35:38.200 I know for a fact that I am a Christian.

01:35:41.700 I love the Lord.

01:35:43.360 I love Jesus.

01:35:44.420 I believe that he died for our sins and rose again.

01:35:47.340 And, like, he gives us authority to trample over serpents.

01:35:50.920 I believe that 100%.

01:35:52.540 But I do think that there is much more to the spirit realm and reality than could be explained in the Bible.

01:36:03.080 And I think the Jewish people of the Old Testament were set apart from the rest of, you know, the world, the rest of the world at that time.

01:36:13.880 And their stories, their history is very specific to themselves, but it leaves out the rest of the world, you know?

01:36:22.440 So, like, there was a lot going on that isn't in the Bible.

01:36:27.240 And I think that there's so much more.

01:36:31.420 And I think in some ways it can be a distraction, like getting obsessed with fairies and things or whatever, or, like, astral projecting.

01:36:39.800 All of that, I feel, is a distraction from what's truly important, which is Jesus and helping people.

01:36:48.080 There are so many people in bondage, so many people brainwashed.

01:36:51.940 So, like, it's just, and I think that that is what's truly important, is helping them and reaching them.

01:36:58.540 But I do think that there is a lot more to reality, you know what I mean?

01:37:04.320 Like, I think Bigfoot, fairies, Dogman, all of that is, it exists.

01:37:11.120 But I think that they're, like, extradimensional beings.

01:37:14.180 Like, they, maybe they can cross, they have the ability to cross over into our realm at, like, certain times or at will.

01:37:22.880 I don't know.

01:37:23.400 But, like, yeah, either everyone's wrong, everyone is lying, which it seems impossible that every single person is lying, or there's something going on.

01:37:35.720 And I think that the really unfortunate thing about that body of information, Bigfoot, fairies, things like that, astral projection, is that because Christianity doesn't cover it in any meaningful way,

01:37:51.920 when a book on witchcraft in the teenage section of Barnes & Nobles covers it, well, if you've had an experience or you've heard of an experience that just lodges itself in your brain and you just can't stop thinking about it,

01:38:07.480 it's like, my friend said they saw little people with red hats or, you know, whatever the case may be, all of a sudden here it is in this book.

01:38:13.400 Like, well, now this book is an authority on the topic.

01:38:16.360 And that's the problem, is we get amazed by these spiritual encounters, and then we find something that addresses it, and that something then becomes our authority on the topic.

01:38:27.700 Yeah, like a book on witchcraft in the teenage section of Borders, right?

01:38:32.260 Right, exactly.

01:38:33.220 So, we're at the hour and a half mark.

01:38:36.920 I really want to get into how you become disenchanted with this, you know, version of reality that witchcraft has offered you,

01:38:46.940 and how you make this transition over into Christianity.

01:38:51.860 So, we had, so I had given birth.

01:38:58.060 I had decided to keep my baby, okay?

01:39:01.860 And some precursor.

01:39:04.700 So, I used to be addicted to opiates.

01:39:07.700 I, like, lost my whole life, fell all apart.

01:39:11.480 And I was with this woman for seven years, and she introduced me to hard drugs, and I lost everything,

01:39:24.600 and was basically living out of my car and homeless.

01:39:29.560 And my husband, the man who had become my husband, got me into rehab, and I figured out eventually that, so I had had an abortion at 18.

01:39:44.640 And, like, the guy that I was with pressured me to get an abortion, and, like, when I went, he went to, like, a metal show, like, that day, and, like, wasn't there for me.

01:39:55.740 And, yeah.

01:39:56.220 And, like, my mom drove me, and she was a hardcore feminist, and anyway, so I started to torture myself, basically.

01:40:07.460 I swore off men.

01:40:09.120 I became, I considered myself a lesbian.

01:40:11.900 And I would, like, drink blackout drunk, like, almost daily.

01:40:16.840 And I was-

01:40:17.460 This is because of the trauma associated with the abortion?

01:40:20.640 Abortion, right.

01:40:21.600 So, I, my husband, the man that would become my husband, got me into rehab, and I got clean for, I was probably clean for, like, two or three years, and was, like, waitressing and stuff.

01:40:40.240 And then we got pregnant, and we considered an abortion, and somebody at the clinic told me that when you have a baby and you decide to keep the baby, the universe will make everything work out.

01:40:59.720 It will make reality work out.

01:41:02.920 Things will fall into place.

01:41:04.540 So, I decided to keep the baby, and I gave birth to him.

01:41:07.980 And I, while I was nursing him one day, oh, so I, when I was pregnant, I was nine months pregnant, I suddenly remembered that I probably had a 401k.

01:41:24.260 And we didn't know how we were going to make ends meet.

01:41:26.740 We didn't know what we were going to do.

01:41:28.420 He was working at some, like, lame job at an antique store.

01:41:34.720 I was waitressing and bartending, and I was, like, how are we going to do this?

01:41:39.700 But then suddenly one day, I remembered, hey, I have a 401k from that job that I lost due to drug addiction.

01:41:48.000 And I went to go look, and it turns out that I had $75,000 in my 401k.

01:41:54.620 So, I was, like, oh, okay.

01:41:57.520 Balling out of control.

01:41:58.620 So, thanks, universe.

01:42:00.100 But if I had remembered that I had had this 401k before I got pregnant, I would have used all, I would have blown it all on drugs.

01:42:07.940 Right.

01:42:09.000 I got a severance package of, like, $25,000, and I blew all of that in three months on drugs.

01:42:15.600 So, like, I would have died, I'm sure.

01:42:18.280 Like, something would have happened.

01:42:19.300 But anyway, it worked out.

01:42:20.100 Can I just say, as an aside, I've known a lot of people who have been through very similar situations to yours, and at the peak of when they would be, they would have this proclivity to abuse drugs and live a debaucherous lifestyle, they often fall into an incredible amount of money.

01:42:35.680 I mean, that happens in so many, I know individuals that I can count, I think, exceeding, like, certainly exceeding one hand, who, at the height of their drug use, their debaucherous lifestyle, would come into more money than I've ever seen in my life.

01:42:54.600 And it would come and go, and they'd blow it on all kinds of crap, and then it would just be a funny story in hindsight.

01:43:00.200 And I'd go, you have nothing to show for it?

01:43:01.400 They'd go, no, I have nothing to show for it.

01:43:02.500 But, I just find that funny, because you want to talk about the universe providing.

01:43:07.440 Well, it seems like maybe there's even something that wants to provide you with fuel to the fire that you're burning.

01:43:13.440 Right.

01:43:13.860 I just see that a lot.

01:43:14.920 I know maybe that's an outlying thing.

01:43:18.820 Maybe not a lot of other people have seen that.

01:43:20.120 I've seen that a lot.

01:43:21.640 I mean, I believe it.

01:43:23.420 And, you know, I think that there are, like, spiritual, I think there's something spiritual to most things that happen in the natural.

01:43:31.100 There's, like, a spiritual side to it.

01:43:33.140 No, anyway.

01:43:33.880 But, right.

01:43:34.660 So, I blew all of that money.

01:43:35.940 $25,000.

01:43:37.120 I had literally $25,000.

01:43:39.760 And I blew it all on drugs.

01:43:41.640 It all disappeared.

01:43:43.060 But I had a 401k that whole time.

01:43:46.000 And I think that God, like, kept it from my memory or something.

01:43:50.400 I had no idea.

01:43:51.260 And then suddenly, I remembered when I was nine months pregnant and didn't know what to do, that I had $75,000.

01:43:58.320 So, I used, I bribed my husband.

01:44:01.860 And I was like, I will pay off the truck if you marry me.

01:44:04.940 And I paid off his truck and he married me.

01:44:07.040 And so, we bought our house.

01:44:10.460 And it made everything.

01:44:12.420 And I became a stay-at-home mom.

01:44:14.580 And, which I never thought in a million years would ever happen.

01:44:18.340 I was not one of those girls who dreamed about getting married, what my wedding was going to be like, and how many kids I was going to have.

01:44:24.520 I didn't want any of that.

01:44:26.000 And here I am.

01:44:27.100 But anyway.

01:44:27.440 So, after I had my son, I was sitting there nursing him.

01:44:33.100 And we didn't have a dryer.

01:44:36.260 And I would hang up my husband's clothes, his work clothes.

01:44:39.700 And all of a sudden, I see one of the shirts, like, something pinched the corner and, like, let go.

01:44:46.100 And the shirt, like, started swinging.

01:44:47.740 And I was like, what other explanation could there be?

01:44:54.380 There was no bug.

01:44:56.340 There, no windows were open.

01:44:59.200 Like, the air wasn't on.

01:45:00.960 Like, there was no logical explanation for what I just saw other than perhaps a spirit of some sort.

01:45:08.420 And so, a lot of weird stuff started happening.

01:45:11.400 And my husband was getting sleep paralysis.

01:45:13.600 And he started seeing things.

01:45:15.860 And I looked into, I got, like, a bunch of sage and, like, burned it.

01:45:23.160 And, like, I was into witchcraft still at that time.

01:45:25.280 And we got this spirit out.

01:45:27.360 But I realized that, like, the demonic was real.

01:45:30.120 Okay.

01:45:30.580 And I was like, this was a demon.

01:45:32.460 My husband saw, like, this tall, like, lanky white thing in our home.

01:45:39.820 And.

01:45:40.380 A rake.

01:45:41.000 Huh?

01:45:41.620 A rake.

01:45:42.260 It's an archetype, right?

01:45:43.120 It's this entity.

01:45:45.000 There's shadow people.

01:45:45.780 There's the long, lanky.

01:45:48.540 Skinwalker type.

01:45:49.740 Skinwalker type, right?

01:45:51.060 Yeah.

01:45:51.240 These things.

01:45:52.580 Repeating archetypes of, you know.

01:45:54.920 Certainly, these things can be broken down into categories.

01:45:58.300 That's interesting.

01:45:59.440 So, all that happened, right?

01:46:01.120 And while all this is going on, my dad is sending me Jordan Peterson videos.

01:46:07.120 And I would watch these videos looking for things to argue with.

01:46:12.000 So that I could, like, find things to, like, tell my dad, like, you're an idiot.

01:46:16.180 Like, I'm right.

01:46:17.340 And this is why you need to embrace socialism.

01:46:20.460 That's essentially what I was doing.

01:46:23.740 And.

01:46:24.160 But I started watching enough of them to where, like, these seeds would start getting planted.

01:46:31.340 And I.

01:46:33.220 Instead of, like, finding things to argue with.

01:46:35.800 He, like, made a lot of sense.

01:46:36.260 I started cleaning my room.

01:46:38.100 Right.

01:46:38.420 I started cleaning my room.

01:46:39.680 And I started thinking about, like, goals and things.

01:46:42.420 And he, but so I had a lot of free time on my hands because I was a stay-at-home mom.

01:46:49.140 So I consumed, like, all of his college courses that he, like, he, at that time, he had them all free on YouTube.

01:46:58.160 And so in these courses, he talks about Carl Jung and shadow work.

01:47:04.780 And shadow work is essentially where you go into your shadow, the things about yourself that you've, like, suppressed.

01:47:13.740 And you incorporate those things back into your personality to become a whole person.

01:47:18.540 So I was like, why not?

01:47:19.740 I'll just do this.

01:47:21.840 So I.

01:47:23.600 The way you can tell what's in your shadow is by looking at other people and, like, the things that really annoy you and other people are what are in your shadow.

01:47:33.740 So it's, like, a part of, like, projection.

01:47:36.660 Like, when, like, people project their issues onto other people.

01:47:40.220 It's sort of, like, a similar vein.

01:47:43.000 But so at that time, like I said, I was literally had blue hair.

01:47:46.780 I was a blue-haired liberal.

01:47:49.200 And so naturally, the thing that I thought immediately jumped to mind were, like, MAGA people.

01:47:56.940 So in rehab, I had this guy that was in rehab with me who would wear, like, MAGA hats.

01:48:03.540 And we would get into screaming matches.

01:48:06.820 And, like, one of us would, like, leave the room or whatever.

01:48:10.120 And so I hated this guy.

01:48:12.120 And I was like, okay, that's the guy that pisses me off the most.

01:48:15.620 So in my mind, I was, like, trying to sympathize with him and, like, I don't know, like, empathize with a conservative standpoint.

01:48:27.160 So I got on Google and I was trying to find conservative media.

01:48:33.040 And it is so, like, at that time, I had no idea about, like, the echo chambers.

01:48:41.900 Like, we literally are in echo chambers.

01:48:44.500 Like, I would try and find anything conservative.

01:48:47.940 And all I would get was, like, CNN or MSNBC or Rachel Maddow, which was all the stuff I was already consuming.

01:48:53.320 So that was the first time I really realized that there something weird was happening where, like, I couldn't find conservative viewpoints.

01:49:04.000 They just were not available to me.

01:49:06.060 So I did eventually find The Daily Wire.

01:49:09.060 And I tried to listen to a few of their podcasts.

01:49:16.880 And you found Ben Shapiro to be insufferable?

01:49:20.080 Yeah.

01:49:20.560 Like, I don't know if he could speak any faster.

01:49:25.060 He's just, but anyway, he, right.

01:49:27.440 So, but I would try and listen to his podcast.

01:49:29.180 And, like, I would get so angry at the things that they were saying, like, about Obama or Hillary Clinton, that I literally could not understand what they were saying.

01:49:39.240 Like, I would be so mad.

01:49:41.980 I literally, I couldn't hear it.

01:49:44.120 So I would have to go back and, like, rewatch things again to, like, try and, like, push myself aside to listen.

01:49:53.500 So, but I, in that I learned how to set aside my emotions and look logically at a situation.

01:50:01.540 And before that, all I did was ride on my emotions.

01:50:06.540 So things started, my worldview started to shift at that point.

01:50:12.200 And I started to get into the Joe Rogan experience.

01:50:19.020 And in his interview, his first interview with Ben Shapiro, he asks Ben, like, why he believes in God.

01:50:29.180 And Ben Shapiro starts talking about the image of God and what that means.

01:50:34.220 And he essentially says, God placed man in a logical, ordered universe and to carry, to be the image of God is to be, is to understand the universe and to be able to steward the, to steward reality.

01:50:53.160 And we're the only beings, the only material beings that are able to do that.

01:50:58.060 And he said it in, like, a much more eloquent way, but that's essentially what he said.

01:51:01.680 And that, I don't know why God used this.

01:51:04.220 But that's what he used.

01:51:05.240 And it was as if he touched my forehead.

01:51:08.360 Like, and, like, I just, the scales fell away.

01:51:12.200 And I saw that God was real and that I have been, like, I had been on the wrong path completely.

01:51:21.940 And so I still didn't think Christianity was the truth.

01:51:26.340 I was like, Christians are stupid.

01:51:28.660 They are judgmental and smelly and I don't like Christians.

01:51:32.920 And so I was like, I'm going to read the Hebrew Bible and learn Hebrew and maybe I'll convert to Judaism.

01:51:41.180 So I did that.

01:51:44.100 I started to teach myself Hebrew and read the Old Testament.

01:51:48.360 And in Isaiah, it very, very clearly, and in Psalms, there are very clear references to Jesus, to somebody being crucified, to somebody, like, being killed.

01:52:03.160 Resurrected.

01:52:03.560 Yeah.

01:52:04.420 Yeah.

01:52:04.720 And I was like, oh, that's weird.

01:52:08.680 So I hadn't been raised.

01:52:10.800 My parents taught me that, like, there was no way to prove that Jesus existed and that faith is blind and et cetera.

01:52:17.600 So I got online and it's very easy to just look it up.

01:52:23.200 But Jesus was a historical person.

01:52:24.860 And even secular scholars, most of them agree that Jesus was a real person that walked the earth.

01:52:32.080 And that was, like, mind-blowing to me.

01:52:34.480 And then I discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls.

01:52:36.780 And the Dead Sea Scrolls are Isaiah, the scrolls of Isaiah, and they've been carbon dated to pre-exist Jesus, the time that Jesus would have existed.

01:52:47.860 And if you compare the Isaiah Scrolls to the scrolls that we use for, like, ESV translations, for example, they're identical.

01:52:56.360 Exactly the same.

01:52:57.140 So there was a prophecy about Jesus that existed, has been proven to exist, before Jesus walked the earth as, like, a material person.

01:53:09.040 And that was mind-blowing to me.

01:53:12.480 So I logically converted, and then I, it took a little bit of time, and then I repented for the abortion, for being an occultist, and I received the Holy Spirit.

01:53:31.160 And, like, I was healed of cigarette smoking.

01:53:34.400 I, like, complete, I felt my desires change.

01:53:38.020 Like, I had been a lesbian for almost a decade before that.

01:53:42.360 So, like, those desires, though, have, like, completely melted away.

01:53:48.000 And I don't, I don't know if that was, it's a heart change.

01:53:51.760 You know what I mean?

01:53:53.000 So.

01:53:53.720 Talk about a paradigm shift for you, because you, you, you go from a worldview that's completely informed by emotional decisions.

01:54:02.300 Right?

01:54:02.620 I mean, that's, that's, that's very much what it seems like.

01:54:04.600 And I do think that emotion, because we're emotional and we're logical, and that's kind of the divide.

01:54:10.440 And this negative spiritual realm feeds off of our emotions and manipulates us through them.

01:54:17.700 So you go from a world that's dominated by the emotional viewpoint to a world that is navigated quite successfully, considering where, where you've ended up in your spiritual path.

01:54:31.140 It's dominated by logic.

01:54:33.220 It's navigated by logic.

01:54:34.340 Not caring about your feeling.

01:54:35.560 I, I took the same, almost the same exact steps, like, uh, Larry Elder, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, which is the top lobster name that's from his book, uh, about the lobster.

01:54:47.120 Yeah.

01:54:47.860 Um, Joe Rogan.

01:54:49.680 And, and it's a, I don't know where you're at now.

01:54:53.060 And it, I don't, I don't know, that's your own path.

01:54:55.980 But like, I kind of out, not that I outgrew these people, but I feel like they've changed a little bit.

01:55:01.300 They're a lot more about censorship now or whatever.

01:55:05.520 I don't, I don't know.

01:55:06.380 Like the weird stuff about like censoring, uh, free speech on Twitter.

01:55:11.300 And Peterson too, when he's going off about it, like you've got to take the vaccine, like he's kind of spiraling about it.

01:55:17.140 And there was a change, there's money involved, there's other in the fair, but it's one of these things where they'll tell you a hundred truths.

01:55:23.820 And then this one lie to deviate you from the path.

01:55:26.620 And I'm looking at Jordan Peterson and a Ben Shapiro, which I never knew his real motives, but to me, they've deviated from the path that I'm going towards right now, but it's fine because they, they put me on this path.

01:55:38.200 And they kind of the same thing.

01:55:39.820 Like, I was like, I had to like really listen to what this guy was saying a couple of times because I was resistant to what he was saying, but something about it made me come back to it.

01:55:49.300 And good for you for like, cause it's hard when you have somebody like basically debunking your entire ideology and your entire worldview.

01:55:58.860 Uh, it's real easy to be like, screw you and never go back.

01:56:02.840 But like you went back and you listened, you're like, wait, there was, but there was something here.

01:56:06.280 It bothered me to bring to Ben Shapiro and you went back.

01:56:12.480 You were like, I know that was hard, but there's something here.

01:56:15.280 Yeah.

01:56:16.020 Well, I mean, so it wasn't, so I, it was more so like Klavan.

01:56:20.280 I couldn't stand Ben Shapiro for a long time.

01:56:22.860 Like the whole, what was it called?

01:56:24.620 They had like this whole movement where it was like.

01:56:27.620 Intellectual dark web.

01:56:28.200 Oh yeah.

01:56:29.140 Intellectual dark web.

01:56:30.180 That's right.

01:56:30.980 Yeah.

01:56:31.260 I still have, you can see Peterson's books are right here.

01:56:34.600 I have both of them and they serve a purpose, but he had a tendency to reduce everything to strictly allegory.

01:56:44.960 And these allegories being maps by which you can, you know, navigate and become a more effective person in your, they miss yourself to your family, to your community.

01:56:56.300 He misses, he misses a lot of like the spiritual stuff, but, uh, maybe, maybe, but not there.

01:57:05.580 He's like right on the edge.

01:57:07.340 And I'm having trouble deciding if that's, is that nefarious or not?

01:57:12.600 Is that, yeah, it's maybe it's purposeful, purposeful, but there's also a tier of people like how you're describing.

01:57:19.160 Like if, you know, if you're a blue haired feminist, you're not going to come to this show and have your mind changed.

01:57:25.520 This show is for people who are already sort of red pilled and we're taking that next step.

01:57:29.680 So there's like levels and portals that you've got to step through in order to get to, I guess, where I'm at.

01:57:35.860 I get, I, and I hope that we're at where the truth is or at least where we're like one step closer.

01:57:41.980 We're taking that walk.

01:57:42.960 But, you know, Peterson had his, uh, his, uh, dissection of the, the book of Genesis is tremendous.

01:57:50.260 Yeah.

01:57:50.840 He misses a lot of important spiritual points, but, uh, the philosophical, the philosophical reasoning that he applied to it is just, it's irreplaceable.

01:58:01.080 And that's something that I've listened to a bunch of times and I should go back and listen again, but I just feel like lately the world has gotten like, like we're moving real fast to wherever we're going.

01:58:10.500 So I'm like, all right, we have to catch up and we've got to tell the people, but I don't know.

01:58:15.680 I don't know.

01:58:16.040 Maybe everyone has a place.

01:58:18.140 Peterson really nails, um, raising children.

01:58:22.180 Yeah.

01:58:22.640 I think he nails that, man.

01:58:23.800 I think he nails that.

01:58:25.020 Um, and it's a shame what's happened to him.

01:58:28.160 We'll always have these books, you know, of this guy who was.

01:58:31.080 Um, and it was incredible information.

01:58:33.300 It was very important, but yeah.

01:58:35.300 I think he's a human being, you know, just like the rest of us.

01:58:39.020 Well, that's provided that it's even him anymore because I look at that and I'm like, is that, uh, Sacha Baron Cohen in a, in a two-tone suit?

01:58:45.460 I don't even know anymore.

01:58:46.320 I don't know if that's really him.

01:58:47.560 I have no idea.

01:58:48.920 Um, but you know, you're right.

01:58:50.600 He's, he's just a dude.

01:58:51.800 Yeah.

01:58:52.320 And like, there were a lot of people who were saying, oh, he's the, the last prophet and things like that, because he seemed like this wise man that the world really needed.

01:59:00.720 And we didn't need him.

01:59:02.100 Yeah.

01:59:02.500 And I think, you know, he stood, he was ringing the alarm long before years before everything fell apart with, uh, like the gender stuff and the attacks on free speech.

01:59:15.040 And it, I mean, you know, even, even David had a fall, you know, David had a fall.

01:59:21.380 Moses had a fall.

01:59:22.680 All of these men of the Bible are human and they all had their pitfalls, Solomon.

01:59:28.120 They all had, they, God used them and he was with them, but they did have, they fell away at some point, you know, and like he can still redeem him and bring him back.

01:59:40.300 But I think it's ironic how his claim to fame was freedom of speech.

01:59:46.640 Yeah.

01:59:47.360 And he has like reneged on that because of, what was it?

01:59:52.880 It was, it was, it was about demon trolls on Twitter.

01:59:59.000 He's blocked me on Twitter for being a demon troll when I was just telling him that I was telling him the truth as I saw it.

02:00:05.420 My, yeah, you, you created me now.

02:00:07.060 Look at me, father.

02:00:09.620 But now we're, we're, my, my breaking off point, uh, with him was, uh, right around COVID where, you know, one of his things, his claim to fame to me was, uh, tell the truth or at least don't lie.

02:00:21.460 And, and don't apologize to the mob and, and, you know, it's like 2021 and he, he's talking to Trudeau on Dave Rubin show and he's like, I took your damn vaccine.

02:00:32.380 Now give me my freedoms back.

02:00:34.100 And it's like, that's not how it works, Jordan.

02:00:36.440 You knew that from 2018, you've, you've said that it's in your books and here you are making a deal with the devil for something that they're not going to give you back.

02:00:44.660 And, and like you, how many people have you led down the wrong path, whether you took the vaccine or not?

02:00:50.160 It's just like, you're encouraging people to do this.

02:00:52.600 And same thing with Ben Shapiro is like, Oh, my, my wife's a doctor.

02:00:56.140 It's just, I was like, listen, next, next, next shooter, next person up.

02:01:00.620 You have, you, you have a huge audience and you're, you're leading them.

02:01:04.160 And I felt like you've led them astray.

02:01:05.420 So I'm like, well, now thanks for the work you've done, but we, we have to, we can't make idols out of these people.

02:01:11.960 We have to take the information they give us and continue to get new information from other people or, or do it ourselves.

02:01:18.220 And here we are.

02:01:19.040 This is, this perfectly highlights why it's important to follow Jesus Christ and to not idolize a man and follow a man because we're always going to fail.

02:01:27.680 We're always going to misstep.

02:01:28.840 We're always going to fumble.

02:01:29.820 And if you're following a man, well, then the line stops there.

02:01:33.060 All of a sudden you're standing in front of Jordan Peterson.

02:01:34.720 He's laying on the ground in tears on benzos and you're going, I don't know where to go anymore.

02:01:38.360 And that's, it's partially my fault, right?

02:01:40.240 Because I, I've, I've made it a point in my life not to follow man, but it's still in some sort of way.

02:01:47.540 I mean, look, top lobster, I am, I have put him on this pedestal and I have these expectations of this guy.

02:01:54.720 And when he falls short of them, I'm very harsh at him.

02:01:58.460 And maybe, maybe I'm, you know, maybe I've said things to him that were a little too rough for him.

02:02:04.380 He saw it and he blocked me.

02:02:06.120 Would you be open top to a Jordan Peterson redemption arc?

02:02:10.760 Would you be there for it?

02:02:12.140 I don't really care.

02:02:13.900 I'd like it.

02:02:14.860 Good for him.

02:02:15.760 But I've, I feel like we need, I've, I've moved on and, you know, he could help other people.

02:02:20.940 Yeah.

02:02:21.160 But for me, it's just like, I'm, I'm doing something else, but yeah.

02:02:24.800 I need him to come out and I need him to be like, I was wrong.

02:02:27.180 I was a fool.

02:02:27.920 And there's a huge spiritual component and demons are real.

02:02:30.660 That's what I need.

02:02:31.340 I need that.

02:02:32.020 I need that.

02:02:32.860 That's what I need.

02:02:36.340 That would be amazing.

02:02:37.500 Comes out proclaiming the gospel.

02:02:39.980 We'll see.

02:02:40.900 I mean, if you ask him if he believes in, he's like, what do you mean by God?

02:02:43.940 And what do you mean by if?

02:02:46.160 Somebody said it.

02:02:46.960 They were like, what do you mean by and?

02:02:48.500 I think it was not nice.

02:02:49.540 I behave.

02:02:50.380 I act like I believe.

02:02:52.100 Yeah.

02:02:52.320 I behave as if there is a God.

02:02:54.260 Right.

02:02:54.800 Yeah.

02:02:55.420 And it's, this is true.

02:02:56.820 It's true to a certain point.

02:02:58.100 I told a bunch of people that I know that as well, that they, a lot of people do behave

02:03:01.860 as if there is a God, but do not say it with their mouth.

02:03:04.420 So it's like, well, you know, come on.

02:03:06.840 Right.

02:03:07.220 Yeah.

02:03:07.940 Yeah.

02:03:10.240 Well, I mean, unless you have anything left on the table that you, you feel compelled to

02:03:16.600 share.

02:03:17.380 Okay.

02:03:18.040 Go ahead.

02:03:18.940 Okay.

02:03:19.200 So that was, so we talked about, like, that's how I became a Christian, right?

02:03:25.660 And I went through, down this path where I wanted to be a witch and a Christian, and I

02:03:31.220 wanted to do new age.

02:03:32.400 A little white magic.

02:03:33.800 Yes.

02:03:34.200 A little white magic.

02:03:35.440 I literally was trying to do that.

02:03:38.560 And then we, the whole COVID happened, everything happened, and we ended up, like, moving out

02:03:44.460 to the middle of nowhere.

02:03:45.300 And I started going through this Baptist church, and we had been kind of looking at churches

02:03:51.240 where we lived before, but I experienced a lot of, like, judgment or whatever at the

02:03:58.400 Baptist churches.

02:03:59.480 Okay.

02:03:59.780 I don't, I don't, anyway, we ended up at a Baptist church out here, and I, my beliefs

02:04:05.700 and my understanding of the Holy Spirit were refined, and eventually, like, all of that

02:04:11.960 new age stuff, like, fell off, and I became, like, a more solidly, like, I had, like, a

02:04:22.340 solid foundation to stand on, like, a truer understanding of the Bible, and, like, I stopped

02:04:27.600 looking for, like, reincarnation in the Bible, like, trying to, like, people would use, like,

02:04:34.300 calling John the Baptist Elijah as proof that they believed in reincarnation, but it's not

02:04:41.160 true, and, like, in the Bible, it says, like, you only die once, okay?

02:04:47.100 So, I started going to a Baptist church.

02:04:50.820 I'm still a member there now, and I, everything was fine until I came under, like, very severe

02:05:02.480 demonic oppression.

02:05:03.840 And, like, as a result of that, my beliefs have shifted again, and it's sort of, like,

02:05:12.200 I think that I had, like, the religious understanding down, and then true Christian spirituality has

02:05:19.440 now, like, come into the picture.

02:05:21.400 So, like, the gifts of the Spirit and the Holy Spirit and, like, the authority that we

02:05:26.440 have over demons has, I now understand all of that, and I'm very, in a very real way, experiencing

02:05:35.760 those things.

02:05:39.880 Yeah, so, with the demonic oppression that I came under, my, I had just given birth to my

02:05:47.880 third baby, and she, this was earlier this year, and she is perfect and amazing, but we stopped

02:05:57.440 going to church because I had a newborn, and so I stopped reading the Bible, I stopped really, I

02:06:04.080 wasn't really praying a lot before that anyway, like, I would pray for, like, before meals, or, like,

02:06:11.200 pray, like, some before bed, like, thank God for the day, whatever, go to bed, and so that's where I

02:06:17.320 was spiritually, and my husband gets me this book, and he was so excited about this book, and he

02:06:23.540 really hyped it up, and as soon as I got it and opened it, I realized, like, oh, wait, I didn't,

02:06:33.640 okay, so it was a hand-bound, like, $160 book, and it had a giant pentagram on it, and Freemason

02:06:41.420 symbols, and it was a book on the history of symbols, and I flipped through it to the Christianity

02:06:48.320 section, and the first thing in the Christianity section is information on Buddhism, or voodoo, and,

02:06:55.460 like, how voodoo is done, and I was, like, okay, and I didn't want to hurt his feelings, so I accepted

02:07:05.360 this book, and I put it on top of my refrigerator, and I didn't look at it again, but then my in-laws

02:07:13.540 came to stay with us to see the baby, and I was, like, oh, they're Southern Baptists. I got to hide

02:07:20.940 this book, so I hid the book, and I moved it back to my bedroom, and I put it on my dresser, and then

02:07:29.660 we all started having nightmares. My youngest son started seeing, he called it the happy monster,

02:07:38.460 like, the happy monster from the playroom. He would, like, scream terrified, and, like, hide behind me,

02:07:43.980 and he'd be like, the happy monster is here, the happy, he's only two, so, like, his, how he explains

02:07:50.420 things is, he's still coming into language, but anyway, he would say the happy monster is here, and I would

02:07:55.460 rebuke it, and he would say that it left, but then it kept happening, and we all, I started having

02:08:02.180 these dreams where, like, I could not say Jesus, like, Jesus would not come out of my mouth, and

02:08:09.680 my husband was having nightmares, my children were having nightmares, everybody was, like, seeing weird

02:08:16.740 stuff, stuff that was moving, and we started going back to church again while all this was going on,

02:08:25.340 and while we were singing, I, the words that I was trying to sing, I sang, hell will rain forever,

02:08:34.960 that came out of my mouth, and I was, like, what is going on right now, and, like, trying to rebuke this

02:08:43.640 thing would not work, like, it would work, and, like, things would disappear, but it would, it kept coming

02:08:49.120 back, and I, that experience taught me a lot, it, I learned about, like, the legal rights that demons

02:09:01.600 have for Christians, even, like, Christians, you can come into agreement without realizing it with a

02:09:08.100 demonic entity, and the entity can control you, it can, like, go into you, even as a Christian, and that

02:09:15.160 is not something that, like, I believed or understood at all, and God, I think, I think God

02:09:23.780 finally gave me a dream where I saw the book, and I knew that there was, I saw myself as a teenager

02:09:31.100 doing occult, like, rituals, and I saw the book, and then I knew that there was a demon there, and I was

02:09:39.120 trying to scream for Jesus, and I could not say, Jesus would not come out of my mouth, and I was, like,

02:09:45.460 getting sleep paralysis, and the whole, the whole thing, and finally, after this dream, I realized

02:09:52.280 the book, I have accepted this book into my home, I have put my husband's feelings above God, and above

02:10:00.980 what I know God wants, and so I confronted my husband about the book, and he said that he thought

02:10:07.820 it would be, like, reading about Hitler, where, like, it's, um, it's harmless, you know, it's kind

02:10:13.660 of interesting, it's, like, dark and spooky, but it's, there's no harm in reading about Hitler, and I was

02:10:20.180 like, no, I have renounced all things occult, and as soon as I said that, I felt this oppression lift off

02:10:30.740 of me, and, like, I felt lighter, and, um, like, all, like, the fear and anxiety, like, I picked up vaping

02:10:38.760 and stuff again, and, like, I don't, like, while this was happening, and, like, I don't know, as soon as I

02:10:45.740 said I have renounced all things occult, it, I felt it leave me, and my husband got upset, and he took the book

02:10:53.100 away, and I felt, like, everything, like, leave, like, the darkness leave, and he sent the book back, and, um, that

02:11:02.680 began a whole journey, this all happened before the thing where, like, my son was attacked and had one in

02:11:11.680 him, so these, I, these all happened this year, but I feel like God was, like, teaching me, you know, so, like,

02:11:20.380 he allowed this to happen, and it, I repented for idolatry, repented for, like, accepting the stuff into my

02:11:27.820 home and begged for his mercy, but, like, in all of this, God has really used it to open my eyes to the authority

02:11:35.780 that we have as Christians, and we, like, the church is so dry right now, I think, like, the Pentecostals aren't in, like,

02:11:44.000 charismatic kind of non-denominational churches, I think, have, like, a much better grasp of, like, what's going on,

02:11:54.860 but by and large, like, all these Methodist churches, like, the Baptist churches, like, I love my brothers and sisters

02:12:02.520 in Christ, but it is dry as a bone, and, like, the, kind of, like, the Holy Spirit, like, is there and

02:12:11.780 accessible, and, like, we, and, like, prayer is, like, how we tapped in, tap into that power, the power that we

02:12:18.640 have, and I think there is something in us as humans that desires that power, that desires the supernatural,

02:12:26.980 that, which is why the New Age and the occult and all of these things are so popular now, and there is a

02:12:35.100 space that the church needs to step up and fill, and, like, we have to be talking about spiritual warfare.

02:12:43.380 Even Tucker Carlson is coming out about his demonic attacks, and, like, it is very real, and there is a very

02:12:52.160 serious need in our culture now of people that are willing and able to stand up with the Lord and,

02:13:00.320 like, break people free of these chains, and let people know, like, there is power in the Holy Spirit.

02:13:06.640 It is not weak. It is not, you just let people, you let everything, like, trample over you, and you just,

02:13:13.680 like, stay in your corner and pray and hope everything turns out okay. That is not how Christianity is

02:13:19.400 supposed to be. That's not what Jesus did. Jesus went out, and he set people free, and we are supposed

02:13:27.300 to be doing that. So, yeah, that's what I do. I think we're about to, we're about to see something

02:13:32.820 like that, some kind of revival. I just, like, kind of how we discussed with, like, a Jordan Peterson

02:13:39.280 type. I'm excited about it, but I, I'm weary about the, not the outcome of it, but I'm weary about the

02:13:48.120 players in it, because there's going to be a lot, there's a lot of people that are noticing that

02:13:51.840 that's happening, and they're already moving to fill these positions. So, which way they move,

02:13:57.680 I don't know. I just, you know, keep your eyes on God, keep your eyes on Jesus, and it's going to be

02:14:03.660 fun the next couple of years. I think it's going to be a good time, but I'm just keeping my head in a

02:14:09.200 swivel for the, the, the delusion, or the, whatever the, the trickery that, that might come with this,

02:14:15.260 because, yeah, that's, yeah. You're going to try something, like, a year ago, or whatever, some sort

02:14:20.880 of, like, I don't know. You're right, like, they're, like, the enemy, and the people who, you know,

02:14:27.820 are his minions, essentially, like, are going to move, and it's going to be deceptive, like, it's just

02:14:33.940 how they, how they work, but I think, like you said, keep your eyes on Jesus, keep your eyes on

02:14:39.620 God, and the Holy Spirit. I think that there's, like, I think the Holy Spirit is going to, like,

02:14:46.100 we've had, like, a lot of emphasis on Jesus and God, and I think that the Holy Spirit is missing

02:14:51.560 from the church, and it's a triune God. So, anyway. I think that, well, on that topic of the deception

02:15:00.180 that's coming that, that Top is anticipating, and I agree with that sentiment. I can feel it, too,

02:15:05.100 and I'll not be following, what's his name, Russell Brand anywhere. Thank you very much, but

02:15:11.580 on the topic of this dream that you had, you said you were, you had a dream where you could see

02:15:18.760 yourself when you were a teenager, and you're going through these books, and we did an episode

02:15:23.100 recently with Heidi Love on Mormonism, and I think what that episode did for me was it made it very

02:15:31.260 clear that the practices that are happening today are the same practices that were happening

02:15:38.740 in the beginning. It's all sort of like this Solomonistic magic, right? The idea that Solomon

02:15:45.360 bound these demons and had them do his will using various sigils and stuff comes from extra canonical

02:15:51.860 texts, but I think it makes a lot of sense because you can see the echoes of those practices still

02:16:00.300 happening today. It's the same entities, it's the same practices, the same magic, the same ceremonies,

02:16:06.040 the same rituals, and I think that that's what that dream, nothing new under the sun, right? And I think

02:16:10.960 that that's what that dream was, was like, look, you're doing the same thing. If the through line

02:16:17.320 is Solomonistic magic, which maybe it's not, I could be wrong, who cares? But if there is a

02:16:22.140 through line, and it's the same practices, what you're doing in your witchcraft practice is the

02:16:27.240 same thing that's happening in these Freemason halls. It's just different degrees of decorum,

02:16:34.280 you know what I mean, as far as like the level of the ceremony and the...

02:16:37.540 It's all the rebranding, right?

02:16:38.980 Yeah.

02:16:39.260 It's the same thing. It's the same thing. And I feel like that's what God was trying to show

02:16:42.800 you in that moment was like, you're beholden to the same exact practices right now. It's just

02:16:48.420 sitting on top of your fridge, but it's another book for another people, rebranded, you know,

02:16:55.000 packaged differently. It's the same thing, though.

02:16:57.780 Yep. Yeah. That's good.

02:17:00.040 Yeah. I mean, go ahead.

02:17:01.760 I look forward to talking to you again. I don't know how much time, but I feel like you're going

02:17:07.800 to have a pretty good testimony maybe with your husband and what happens in your life because

02:17:13.440 you're at a... It seems like you're at like a point. You're at a point here where

02:17:18.220 you're going to do something pretty cool.

02:17:21.700 So...

02:17:21.820 Oh, thank you.

02:17:23.320 Yeah.

02:17:24.000 I want God to use me. Like, that's my primary... Like, I want God to use me.

02:17:28.560 I want to help people who are where I was, which was blinded and deceived and, you know,

02:17:34.300 all of that. So I appreciate that.

02:17:36.360 Yeah.

02:17:36.720 He kept your logic intact. It's funny because, you know, you don't use something for so long.

02:17:42.060 You think it gets rusty and dusty, but I think you navigated your way out of that using logic

02:17:49.300 in a way that a lot of people wouldn't have been able to do. So... And I mean, it's all for

02:17:54.920 your benefit and also the benefit of your family.

02:17:57.620 Yeah.

02:17:57.760 So, well, thank you very much for sharing your story. This was excellent. I thought it

02:18:05.680 was excellent. I thought it was really refreshing to hear. Oftentimes we have people on the show

02:18:11.480 who are experts in some, you know, maybe they're a theologian of some sort of biblical theologian

02:18:16.880 or... It's not often that we get to talk to somebody who came through that path that you

02:18:22.160 did. I came through it in a similar way, but I never adhered to anything and I never practiced

02:18:25.720 anything. It was just what first caught my interest. But you being in it, practicing it,

02:18:32.560 immersing yourself in it, and then coming out of the other end, I think that that testimony

02:18:37.560 resonates with a lot of people. Because like you said, I think you nailed it, right? We don't have

02:18:44.180 this spiritual connection in the West. So when witchcraft comes along and shows you these things

02:18:50.460 that, you know, are filled with truths, but fundamental lies, they're very attractive to

02:18:56.180 people. And the church is dropping that ball. Maybe, maybe it's our lot, which really the church

02:19:03.720 needs to look at itself. Why on earth are shows like this doing the job that they should be doing?

02:19:09.240 Yeah, I agree.

02:19:10.780 But there's a vacuum, there's a void. And, you know, voices like yours need to step up and fill that

02:19:17.740 void. Because I get the feeling that time is short. But thank you very much for coming on the show

02:19:24.040 today and sharing this. One more time, I know you don't have much in the way of for people to find

02:19:29.980 you, but I'm sure there's going to be people that are interested. So could you just let folks know?

02:19:34.200 You can find me on Instagram at Mama Shaw OC. It's private at the moment, but just send me a

02:19:40.280 friend request and I'll add you on. You need to update it. But yeah, just feel free to reach out if

02:19:46.620 anyone has any questions or anything. Thank y'all so much for having me on. I really appreciate

02:19:53.240 it. Like, I love the show. Y'all are speaking truth into the darkness.

02:19:58.440 Thank you. That means a lot. And again, thanks for your time. This is amazing. And

02:20:02.400 I think we'll be back. We might have the rest of the week off, David.

02:20:07.920 I don't know.

02:20:08.920 Are we talking to you this week?

02:20:10.680 No, not this week. Sorry, guys. But maybe we'll figure something out for these people.

02:20:15.760 Well, maybe we'll do something last minute in a couple of days. But thank you again, Mama

02:20:20.320 Shaw. I don't want to dox you. And we'll see you guys next time. Peace out.

02:20:25.280 Peace out.

02:20:25.760 Bye.

02:20:26.780 The greatest hypnotist on planet Earth is a oblong box in the corner of the room. It is constantly

02:20:33.740 telling us what to believe is real. If you can persuade them that what they see with their

02:20:39.860 eyes is what there is to see to go. Because they'll laugh in the face of an explanation that

02:20:46.800 portrays the bigger picture of what's happening. And they have.

Nephilim Death Squad - January 08, 2026

TIMECAPSULE： From Witchcraft to Christianity w⧸ Mama Sha

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