Nephilim Death Squad - What The Telepathy Tapes Left Out

00:00:00.000 Toplobs in Productions

00:00:30.000 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad.

00:00:42.080 I am David Lee Corbo, a.k.a. The Raven.

00:00:44.500 That is Toplobs, the father of disinformation.

00:00:47.360 Before we get into today's guests, I'm really excited for this episode,

00:00:50.420 but we have to do a little business up front.

00:00:52.580 Guys, if you're looking for a way to support the show

00:00:54.160 and looking for a way to keep watching after the half an hour mark,

00:00:56.640 patreon.com forward slash Nephilim Death Squad is where you're going to want to be.

00:01:00.000 Ad-free viewing experiences, early access to episodes,

00:01:03.500 early access to tickets to Brohemian Grove.

00:01:06.220 We're looking at the first Friday and Saturday of March for that event,

00:01:09.020 so Patreon members get first dibs to those tickets.

00:01:11.660 Also, discount codes off of merchandise from toplobstead.com.

00:01:15.680 That is the website where you're going to find all of our shirts,

00:01:18.340 all of Top's original designs, everything that we make here and offer to you guys.

00:01:22.640 There's our Mother Horse Eyes episodes.

00:01:23.820 I can't believe we don't have a Telepathy Tapes episode.

00:01:27.240 Yeah, that's actually a great way to...

00:01:28.700 We need to have one of those, right?

00:01:30.160 I'm very excited about this episode.

00:01:32.340 Let's just get right into it.

00:01:33.760 This is a big conversation.

00:01:35.900 Pastor Joe and Frank are with us.

00:01:37.260 I don't know if he prefers pastor, but Joe, he's with us today.

00:01:40.080 I'm very excited to talk to you and get into your field of expertise.

00:01:44.840 Can you give us a quick introduction?

00:01:47.260 What are you about?

00:01:48.160 Where are you from?

00:01:49.200 What do you do?

00:01:49.540 Yeah, Daniel, David, great to be with you.

00:01:51.160 Joe is fine.

00:01:51.880 I'm originally from New York, a background.

00:01:55.260 I'm a pastor, but I spent a good amount of time in law practice.

00:02:00.420 I was a litigator in New York.

00:02:02.260 I got involved in defending religious liberty cases, churches, helping nonprofits and all that.

00:02:09.040 And from that, got involved in some First Amendment litigation and started working with some of the national organizations.

00:02:18.420 Then 2003, I got an invitation to go work with a ministry called Alliance Defending Freedom.

00:02:24.940 So I was there and did more of like training of attorneys and but still involved in litigation and a number of cases that ended up at the Supreme Court.

00:02:35.680 And I left that and started pastoring in 2020.

00:02:40.100 I've been an elder a long time, but this was really where I wanted to end up.

00:02:45.320 It was kind of my heart to have, you know, a good run as a pastor.

00:02:49.780 And that was where I got exposed to the things that are going to be the subject today.

00:02:55.620 Well, that subject today.

00:02:58.380 And by the way, HiddenGiftMinistries.org is at the bottom there.

00:03:02.840 That's where you can find a lot of what happens over there at Hidden Gift Ministries before we get into the conversation.

00:03:08.320 Yeah, HiddenGiftsMinistry.org.

00:03:11.760 It's a new nonprofit set up.

00:03:13.960 You know, we have our 501c3 status and all that.

00:03:17.900 One of the things we became aware of was the great need in special needs families, almost crisis level at times.

00:03:24.940 Where when parents get the diagnosis, they don't know where to turn.

00:03:28.520 A lot of churches are not equipped for it.

00:03:30.700 So we're trying to load up free resources, get people linked and connected, work with other ministries, doing a great job.

00:03:39.280 And even down to mundane things like how to get government benefits.

00:03:43.300 Because we think the church needs to do a better job of reaching special needs families and individuals.

00:03:52.380 Maybe understanding better what it means to be an image bearer of God.

00:03:56.460 And I'm not criticizing churches.

00:03:59.780 This is just something we don't know what to do.

00:04:02.180 It's hard to know what to do with people with significant autism or Down syndrome who are not able to answer you at times when you ask questions.

00:04:11.680 And so we're trying to reframe the church's understanding and see the incredible gifts that these young men and women are.

00:04:19.200 And so all the resources that are going to be free, you know, what comes from the Decoding Cody book goes there as well.

00:04:27.040 This is it's just a vision and a mission we have.

00:04:29.720 So I guess to the topic at hand, your your involvement in a project that over the last year really took people's awareness by storm.

00:04:42.280 It became it was a controversial topic.

00:04:44.820 And what we're talking about is telepathy tapes for a time.

00:04:48.560 It was the number one podcast and still, I think, kind of goes back and forth between the number one position.

00:04:54.560 And you worked very closely with with Kai Dickens in the development of this project.

00:05:02.460 And before we get into the role that you played, let's talk a little bit about how that came to to be.

00:05:10.740 Yeah. And I would say it's an overstatement to say I helped her develop it.

00:05:15.180 I did. And I just went on as a guest on two of her shows.

00:05:18.580 Because the the way that it happened was I started it started with four individuals in the church is more here now, but four individuals who began spelling.

00:05:29.840 They all have what's called non-speaking autism and spelling.

00:05:33.540 You can find pictures of it online and video is generally done.

00:05:40.320 The spellers, the person who is not able to speak reliably, has a board about the size of your laptop screen with letters, including a delete key.

00:05:50.660 And they can train themselves to point to letters and spell out the answers to things.

00:05:56.280 Think of Stephen Hawking in a wheelchair.

00:05:58.860 He lost his power of speech.

00:06:00.520 He's communicating by pressing buttons on a device.

00:06:05.560 Broadly, it's called augmented alternative communication, AAC.

00:06:10.340 Spelling is one type of it.

00:06:12.120 So when they started spelling, I was astonished to find out that we'd been treating them like they were infants, like they had no understanding of anything.

00:06:20.460 I've known Cody since he was a little boy.

00:06:22.520 You know, he's 24 now and six foot five.

00:06:25.280 And always, you know, hi, Cody and silly fist bumps.

00:06:28.840 And when they started spelling, what came out was that they're fully in there.

00:06:35.560 Autism, when it gets to a significant degree, is not an intellectual disability.

00:06:41.020 It's a brain motor, a brain body disconnect.

00:06:45.900 There's trouble with motor function.

00:06:47.620 And so here I was talking.

00:06:49.760 Now, initially, I just went to meet them.

00:06:52.180 I was astonished.

00:06:53.500 What's life going to be like for someone who's been trapped in a body, shown Barney and Elmo cartoons for, you know, decades?

00:07:01.060 And now suddenly they're telling us, please stop that.

00:07:03.380 I'm in here.

00:07:04.020 You know, Cody is interested in World War II history and politics.

00:07:08.140 You know, Matthew, one of my spellers, loves architecture.

00:07:11.940 My favorite is Elsa.

00:07:13.000 It was like my granddaughter.

00:07:13.860 I'm so fond of her.

00:07:16.300 And, you know, she went from kid cartoons to advanced math and science courses and telling me she's memorized the periodic table in chemistry and wants to study the brain.

00:07:26.440 So that's how it started.

00:07:27.860 They were in there.

00:07:28.700 And this, to me, was astonishing just on a pastoral and human level.

00:07:33.320 Where it went from astonishing to completely mind-blowing was when all of them started telling me they're able to communicate in thought that they see angels, that they see demons.

00:07:45.600 Some of them have seen heaven.

00:07:47.680 And then all these details started coming.

00:07:50.420 And that was when I said, oh, my goodness, what's going on here?

00:07:54.640 So this aspect of seeing angels, seeing demons, seeing heaven, not something that was spoken about too much in the series.

00:08:08.840 I believe there was one instance.

00:08:10.960 You talk about it pretty often.

00:08:12.400 It was a...

00:08:13.000 They were, I mean, where it was touched on in the series was from like a Hindu perspective.

00:08:19.140 There was the Indian woman and her son.

00:08:21.620 And they were talking about very briefly that like he would mention that he encountered lowercase g gods.

00:08:28.600 And his mother kind of wisely steered him away from that.

00:08:31.200 But it was just a footnote in the telepathy tapes, which, I mean, it's such a great podcast.

00:08:40.400 But for us, we're looking at it through a Christian lens, through a spiritual lens, and we're like, there's so much more meat on the bone here that it seemed like we're just focused on the ability of the telepathy, which, I don't know, maybe I'm a weirdo.

00:08:57.000 But when I heard it, I go, that makes a lot of sense that there is a human being in there, and they're just having trouble communicating.

00:09:05.140 And they are coherent.

00:09:07.080 Right.

00:09:07.660 And we shouldn't be surprised by this.

00:09:09.860 You know, we've had hints of it all along.

00:09:12.140 You know, there's a professor at Colorado State, I believe, I forget the university now, Temple Grandin, who has autism and has pioneered methods of cat.

00:09:22.140 Well, people maybe remember the movie, I'm sorry, I should have finished that sentence.

00:09:27.640 She's pioneered humane treatment of cattle that's going to be slaughtered, and other agricultural type of issues.

00:09:35.380 But people may remember the movie Rain Man with Dustin Hoffman.

00:09:39.660 Sure.

00:09:40.120 Based on a real-life character, sometimes people with autism have prodigious memory or savant syndrome type mathematical skills.

00:09:50.400 I've seen some, you could say, what's 1,412 times 618?

00:09:55.940 And you get an answer like that.

00:09:58.280 Dustin Hoffman's character looked at a phone book and memorized it, saw a server in a restaurant, read her name, and told her her address and phone number.

00:10:06.800 That's real-life stuff.

00:10:09.020 The brain organizes a certain way.

00:10:11.060 So autism, at some point we call it that, it's a different kind of functioning of the brain.

00:10:18.260 Some of the smartest people I've met are somewhat in the spectrum, and it's always called autism spectrum disorder.

00:10:25.580 You can be in the high-end, high-functioning, married, have a family, have extraordinary skills, but have great difficulty with emotions.

00:10:34.860 Or just not be able to comprehend certain things.

00:10:38.680 I've met some who can't comprehend humor.

00:10:40.960 Not all.

00:10:41.660 I'm generalizing right now.

00:10:44.700 But we have had hints that the person was in there, and we're coming to understand a little better what that means.

00:10:51.600 Let's, um, let's, I mean, we have our own suspicions about the nature of, let's say, telepathy in particular.

00:11:01.060 And I don't want to go into the details too much, because I think it's really important to share some of your experiences and these things that were omitted from the final product.

00:11:10.760 Which, in any sort of documentary that you're going to do, you're going to have quite a bit of footage, and it's not all going to make the cut.

00:11:19.380 And so, in that way, it's understandable.

00:11:20.900 It is interesting to me the nature of the cut in this particular instance, but before we go on to that.

00:11:27.340 Well, they're telling a certain story, and I get it.

00:11:30.120 Yeah.

00:11:31.120 That story just doesn't involve what we think would be the more important parts of the subject.

00:11:36.760 But, yeah, what was left out?

00:11:38.980 Well, before we go there, I do want to say on the topic of telepathy displaying itself in individuals who experience autism on whatever end of the spectrum,

00:11:48.800 are you aware of, let's say, intelligence operations where they have induced different states and individuals by creating, first and foremost, a state of disassociation?

00:12:02.660 So, what I'm hinting at here is, in particular, the CIA's operations when it came to MKUltra or Project Monarch.

00:12:11.460 These are files that were released through the Freedom of Information Act, supposedly no longer in operation, and you can speculate as to whether or not that's a fact.

00:12:21.720 But the center of their research had to do with creating a state of disassociation in the patient or in the subject by way of trauma.

00:12:32.780 And what happens is when an individual disassociates, a number of things become achievable.

00:12:40.500 For example, a secondary programmable personality might emerge.

00:12:44.740 These are all things that are, you know, out there and that they exist in these release files now.

00:12:50.400 But some of the more speculative things are the emergence of psychic abilities or, you know, telepathy, let's say.

00:12:59.200 Does it strike you as significant that these individuals are in a state of disassociation from their physical body and then are displaying these very same attributes that it seems the CIA was fascinated in?

00:13:11.480 Yeah, it doesn't surprise me in the least. I think that, to some extent, it's a much more natural phenomenon than we realize.

00:13:20.100 When government shrouds it, it makes it mysterious. But you go back to the founders of modern psychology, you know, Sigmund Freud and Carl Gustav Jung.

00:13:29.060 Jung wrote in his synchronicities about exactly these kinds of things, believed and had seen extrasensory perception.

00:13:36.820 It just didn't take off. Freud's model took off because people would rather talk about sex than, you know, weirdness.

00:13:45.080 So the but I mean, often I'm in a room with people and, you know, I'm speaking and I'll just ask how many of you have experienced something unusual?

00:13:54.580 The phone rings. You think of Aunt Sally, whom you haven't spoken to in a year, and it's Aunt Sally.

00:13:59.880 Every hand goes up without fail because we've all experienced these kinds of things.

00:14:06.520 They're just not normative. So what happens is the thing that the brain can't process or classify easily gets kind of pushed aside.

00:14:15.140 And so it remains sort of in the weird, you know, area.

00:14:18.640 And yet there are some people who have these that it could be that the mechanism of how that works is related to spiritual gifts.

00:14:29.020 I believe that the spiritual gifts described in First Corinthians 12, Romans 12 are still absolutely in operation.

00:14:36.760 I've had it happen many times.

00:14:38.420 Sometimes I'm talking with someone or praying with someone and I understand a particular, very specific thing happening in their life and I'll share it and they'll go, oh, my goodness, how did you possibly know that?

00:14:50.040 I think there are just those times now whether perhaps the Holy Spirit is working through the background setup that God used for that because other people experience it.

00:15:04.520 Again, it's not uncommon. We get it. We react a little more freaked out to it here because we're the product of a materialist society.

00:15:14.060 Kai Dickens had this right. I've been in many parts of the world where they're much more conscious and aware of spirits.

00:15:20.940 And this kind of thing doesn't strike them strange in the least.

00:15:25.200 You know, I was on a Rotary scholarship in India when I was young and spent an extended time there.

00:15:30.300 I remember I remember the end of a board meeting of the third largest bank in India, the chairman saying, OK, your next stop is the local witch doctor who was well known and told the future.

00:15:43.640 And I had already become a Christian. I didn't. I just watched it and all that.

00:15:47.680 But imagine being a Chase Manhattan Bank and, you know, the chairman says, OK, we're done here.

00:15:52.380 It's time for you to visit the psychic. It's not a feature of our culture or our psyche or our ethos.

00:15:58.220 So, yeah, I think it's common there. It's not it's perhaps not as strange as we think.

00:16:04.960 What's hard for us, we don't know how to process and classify it.

00:16:08.600 This is so part of the I guess the alarms that went off with the telepathy tapes for me was the introduction of this phenomenon and not just the normalization, but the popularization of it.

00:16:20.120 It beat Joe Rogan. So now that's just telling me if if it if the numbers are organic, which I think they are, it's telling me that people are looking for and ready to hear this.

00:16:32.680 And since 2020, there has been a huge spiritual shift.

00:16:37.360 Like if you were an atheist before, you're on one side or the other at this point, you know, there is totally totally agree.

00:16:43.960 Yeah. Tucker Carlson had mentioned a couple of years ago when he started talking about the Nephilim as well.

00:16:49.160 Like when we started this show and he had brought up that idea of we've been in a spiritual world, but the blankets been pulled over our eyes and now it's kind of getting torn back down and we're going to have to deal with that.

00:17:02.700 So this was a big indicator for me that the people are I don't know if they're ready, but they are looking.

00:17:10.780 They're looking at it now and they're curious again.

00:17:13.100 And whatever these things are that are working behind the scenes, like you said, these these folks are seeing angels and demons and Jesus at some point.

00:17:22.080 They see they see them fight. They see what it's like when they battle.

00:17:25.340 And I describe that in some of the dialogues in the book, the kind of weapons that they use and how Jesus dispatches angels when we pray.

00:17:34.120 They see it all.

00:17:35.980 Can we talk about that? Because like we just we just wrapped up our study of Daniel.

00:17:40.120 So like Daniel 11, right? Or Daniel 10.

00:17:43.280 Yeah, I think it was Daniel 10. You're talking about the angel.

00:17:45.760 Yeah, the Prince of Persia. He's caught up there and he's like, I got help.

00:17:48.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:49.420 Three weeks. Like, well, what happened? These guys must have saw that. That's crazy.

00:17:53.360 Yeah, yeah. You know, and the word demon is tricky.

00:17:57.320 The Greek daimon or the dominion of form daimonium actually just means spirit.

00:18:02.540 You'll find places in older Greek writings where it refers to a deity, not necessarily good or bad.

00:18:08.080 Socrates had his daimon, his spirit guide, you know, who he said was a conscience and all that.

00:18:13.420 In the New Testament, they're always bad when you see the word used.

00:18:16.800 So we've just now come to use demon as a spirit in rebellion against God.

00:18:22.060 But, you know, Paul says in Ephesians 6, our wrestling is not against flesh and blood.

00:18:27.340 You guys likely hit that. Principalities, powers.

00:18:30.340 And he goes on to give classifications.

00:18:33.360 And if you study the Greek in those, it suggests there's hierarchies.

00:18:37.620 Some of them, some of the titles suggest almost like a jurisdictional control of an area.

00:18:42.860 And so you get glimpses of that, most notably in Daniel, when Gabriel says, I was sent to you three weeks ago and the prince of Persia withstood me.

00:18:53.420 And Michael, your angel came and fought so I could get through.

00:18:56.540 Or even, you know, the very odd reference in Jude where Michael, the archangel, is disputing with Satan over the body of Moses.

00:19:05.540 It's crazy.

00:19:06.340 Like, what the heck was that about?

00:19:08.460 You know, I have some theories on it, but I won't go into them here.

00:19:13.500 So, yeah, that's there.

00:19:14.820 And then there seems to be a great hierarchy.

00:19:18.560 Maybe you guys have seen some of Michael Heiser's stuff, you know, the unseen realm and angels and all that.

00:19:25.480 The only thing I feel sure of is it's much more complex than we know.

00:19:30.340 We oversimplify angels, good, demons, bad.

00:19:33.600 You know, I mean, there are principalities.

00:19:37.660 I encountered one in India, if I tell a quick story.

00:19:41.360 Please.

00:19:41.920 They took us to something called a devil worship temple.

00:19:45.140 And I thought, well, all right, you know, I'll go along.

00:19:48.780 I'll say, store up the information.

00:19:51.960 And, you know, you walked in.

00:19:53.880 There were these, like, carved figures with fangs and bloody teeth.

00:19:58.760 And there were the, I don't know what to call them.

00:20:01.420 They called themselves priests walking around.

00:20:04.500 And, you know, I talked to a few of them.

00:20:07.980 And I said, can I ask you a question?

00:20:10.340 Sure.

00:20:11.540 If you know these are demons, why would you worship them?

00:20:15.140 And one said to me, that's a good question.

00:20:17.800 It's because they trouble people.

00:20:20.060 And we try to pacify them.

00:20:22.160 And we feel like if we satisfy them, they'll leave us alone.

00:20:27.060 I lived in New York at the time.

00:20:28.760 And I said, yeah, we have that back in New York, too.

00:20:30.620 We call it paying protection to the mob.

00:20:32.820 But I don't think they got the cultural reference.

00:20:35.520 And I asked one of them, is there a head demon here or something?

00:20:39.200 And they said, yeah.

00:20:39.920 And they pointed to a location.

00:20:42.840 And I saw it.

00:20:44.060 It was like a little concrete cinder block structure, maybe four or five feet high, maybe four or five feet square.

00:20:52.220 The middle was hollow.

00:20:53.480 And there were little things inside I couldn't quite make out.

00:20:56.840 Flowers, little trinkets and things.

00:20:58.760 And I was a new Christian at that point.

00:21:01.980 And I was praying and walking toward it.

00:21:04.620 And as I was doing that, I was just going to get right up and look in.

00:21:07.880 Like I was just curious.

00:21:09.980 And as I was walking, you know, I've been a believer since 1978.

00:21:14.820 I never had anything like this before or after.

00:21:18.100 Guys, it was like I walked into an ice-cold wall of something that was black and so profoundly hateful.

00:21:28.180 It actually froze me in my tracks.

00:21:30.940 I've never encountered anything like that in my life.

00:21:34.020 I had been a seeker, a searcher before coming to Christ.

00:21:37.520 I had studied Hinduism somewhat and gone to a Buddhist temple for over a year and read up on the Eightfold Path of the Vinyl.

00:21:46.740 And never anything like this.

00:21:49.920 It froze me.

00:21:51.320 And I just heard like almost audibly.

00:21:54.820 I've never heard an audible voice, but so loud on the inside.

00:21:58.140 Back up and get away.

00:21:59.500 You don't know what you're doing here.

00:22:01.480 And I backed away from it like you would from a rabid dog.

00:22:06.440 I kept my eyes on it like backing up and all.

00:22:09.600 And I think it took years and reading and more understanding to know.

00:22:14.460 So that was a kind of a – that spirit had a jurisdiction.

00:22:21.000 It was welcome there.

00:22:23.040 Very different from, let's say, the spirits who try to harass Christians and, you know,

00:22:29.240 who are more intrigued with the flesh and appetites and promoting hatred or bitterness or, you know,

00:22:36.620 kind of sexual obsessions or things like that.

00:22:41.060 That's different.

00:22:42.160 We do have power and authority over those, you know, especially when a person repents and all.

00:22:47.860 But there's a class of spirits that seems more interested in having a body.

00:22:53.040 You know, you recall when, you know, there was the demon-possessed man and the Gadarenes,

00:22:58.960 and Jesus said, what's your name, lesion, where many, they pleaded with Jesus.

00:23:04.880 They pleaded to go – to not be sent back to the pit, the abyss, the abyss before their time,

00:23:10.640 but to go into a herd of pigs.

00:23:12.920 They would rather have had embodiment in pigs than to be disembodied.

00:23:18.540 And, you know, Jesus gave them that permission, and that was, you know, the first case in the Bible,

00:23:24.760 some would say, of deviled ham, but I would never say that.

00:23:29.720 But I've heard other people say it.

00:23:31.320 We were talking with Karen Wilkinson yesterday.

00:23:33.900 She's like an abductee survivor, and we mentioned that story and found it very interesting

00:23:39.040 that the first thing the pigs do is because, I mean, they don't want to be disembodied.

00:23:43.280 They want to be in flesh, but the first thing they do is throw themselves in the water.

00:23:47.180 So they die there, and I'm like, what's going on with the water that these spirits will –

00:23:53.980 maybe if they're released there, they can spread a little bit more readily,

00:23:57.060 and then that gets into –

00:23:58.220 I was always like –

00:23:59.160 They might have just miscalculated.

00:24:01.080 You know, the pig brain freaked out.

00:24:03.540 It's not a big one.

00:24:04.140 And all that.

00:24:04.880 But, I mean, you find it.

00:24:05.820 Jesus said when an unclean spirit departs from a man, it goes through –

00:24:10.640 the Greek is kind of like dry places, like deserts.

00:24:13.360 It's upset.

00:24:14.300 It doesn't like that.

00:24:15.120 And he said it returns, and if it finds the house swept clean, the person is not –

00:24:21.340 the room hasn't been let out to the Holy Spirit, then it'll return and bring, you know,

00:24:27.140 seven worse in itself.

00:24:28.820 So, yeah, there's that level of these things, too.

00:24:31.860 It takes time and discernment from the study to know what you're dealing with

00:24:35.380 and how you handle those situations.

00:24:37.300 One of these – sorry to interrupt.

00:24:39.800 We're doing a Bible study with our friend Matt, and we're going through the book of Jude.

00:24:43.840 We've only gotten like seven scriptures through because it pertains – like each scripture,

00:24:50.520 you can pull up like 15 more that have reference.

00:24:54.140 And I forget exactly where in the Bible, but I think it's in one of the first four books.

00:24:58.920 I don't remember, though.

00:25:01.500 It basically makes a mention of God helping other tribes slay giants.

00:25:08.120 Like God helped them to kill these giants.

00:25:10.760 They're not Israel.

00:25:12.120 It's not the Jews.

00:25:13.140 It's somebody else.

00:25:14.320 And then they take that land from the giants.

00:25:16.200 I wish Matt was here because he would give us the exact scripture.

00:25:19.520 And then that leads to interesting thoughts because now we're talking about principalities and dominions.

00:25:23.880 It's like, well, did that tribe then worship God?

00:25:27.220 Is there historical record of them obeying the law or following it?

00:25:33.000 Not really.

00:25:33.740 So he just like kind of is like, yeah, you take those guys out over there,

00:25:36.940 and then maybe now your principality is in control here.

00:25:41.240 Or I don't know how it works, but it does seem like that.

00:25:44.700 Like you can't walk into someone else's territory because those lands have been granted to whatever to do whatever with.

00:25:50.940 But you find that the idea of the local God, little G, associated with the land.

00:25:57.080 There's a time that Israel's in a battle and defeats the tribe and whoever they're fighting.

00:26:08.020 And people in that tribe say, well, that's because their God is the God of the hills.

00:26:13.160 We have to fight them in the plains instead.

00:26:15.260 And then they fight in the plains and they lose again.

00:26:17.060 Because the awareness has come in that Yahweh is the one true God that they've been worshiping, you know, the inferior Elohim,

00:26:25.480 you know, these little tribal, the tribes are following a particular spirit.

00:26:32.320 So, yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff in that.

00:26:34.700 You had mentioned before your time in India and, you know, with this entity that you experienced, this principality.

00:26:43.760 And I find that interesting.

00:26:45.580 There's an individual, his name is Rupert Sheldrake.

00:26:48.760 He's a PhD in biology.

00:26:51.060 He's also an author.

00:26:52.060 And he goes around and gives these talks.

00:26:55.220 And he has some very fascinating information, not a Christian, but still has some insight.

00:27:01.200 I just, you know, sort of the nature of things, I think, is where he really deviates.

00:27:05.840 But he has some really incredible work on the psychic phenomenon, telepathy, things of that nature.

00:27:12.900 One of his studies in particular was the psychic connection between individuals and their pets.

00:27:17.540 He does studies on things like you had mentioned before, this idea of, like, thinking of someone and then suddenly they call, which we've all experienced.

00:27:25.120 I think the study he might be most famous for is when you are coming home, if there's cameras in your house and you have a pet,

00:27:32.520 even if you switch up the variable of when you are on your way home, meaning, you know, a dog might get used to you being home every day from the office at 530,

00:27:39.480 switch that variable up and still 15 minutes or so before you arrive, your pet will get up, it'll get antsy, it'll go to the window, it'll climb on the couch, it'll destroy your blinds.

00:27:52.260 And so, you know, he's displaying this psychic phenomenon.

00:27:55.640 But one of the things that I think is interesting is the conclusions that he draws.

00:28:00.580 This psychic phenomenon is very easy for the new age to grab onto.

00:28:06.320 And an element that keeps showing itself, surrounding specifically autism, and then the telepathy tapes becomes part of the conversation,

00:28:16.840 is that, and it's not a hard line, but it's one that seems to be pushed across the table to us to consider, now and again,

00:28:25.240 is that this is somehow the next stage in...

00:28:28.380 Ascension.

00:28:28.920 Well, Ascension, human development at the very least, and that being this sort of savant aspect where, sure, you may be emotionally stunted,

00:28:38.180 but you are hyper-developed in a particular, you know, craft or such.

00:28:44.580 And then, of course, also you toss in there the telepathy aspect.

00:28:48.460 I'm sorry to interrupt, but are your kids, the initial four and the ones you're dealing with now,

00:28:52.860 are they coming back with the same message as well?

00:28:56.180 Yeah, I mean, it's more than double just at my church, but now I'm in touch with hundreds of them.

00:29:01.800 They send me books.

00:29:03.120 I do Zoom calls with them.

00:29:05.660 I mean, I get calls, letters, emails virtually every week.

00:29:09.620 If people have something like this, they want to talk about it, I try to answer everyone.

00:29:13.600 They can always reach out on Instagram, you know, it's at Pastor Joe and Franco.

00:29:20.420 They can email me at my church, Highlands Church.

00:29:23.440 It would be J-In Franco, J-I-N-F-R-A-N-C-O, at HighlandsChurch.org.

00:29:29.880 And, you know, I'll try to speak with you or meet or whatever.

00:29:33.620 So, yeah, this is everywhere.

00:29:36.360 And they have the kind of questions you're asking.

00:29:39.420 And if I can just expand, I think you're hitting on something really important.

00:29:44.600 You know, David, we have to remember, Satan can create things.

00:29:49.440 Sort of the evil by its nature takes something that God's created for good and perverts it.

00:29:55.080 It's the misuse of something.

00:29:57.300 You know, astrology is, you know, clearly given over to, you know, sort of demonic influence.

00:30:04.560 Yet, you know, the heavens declare the glory of God.

00:30:08.080 The magi knew the season, studying the stars.

00:30:12.040 What God puts in for some purpose, for good measure, just gets taken over and hijacked.

00:30:18.340 And you find many subjects, even many things in life like that.

00:30:23.500 You know, sexual relations are a gift from God for intimacy, procreation.

00:30:28.840 God designed it for one man and one woman and a lifelong faithful commitment.

00:30:33.920 You know, you know, the abuse of it becomes lust.

00:30:37.820 You personify a person.

00:30:39.920 You end up with sexual trafficking, all kinds of victims.

00:30:43.300 Because, you know, that naturally declines into things.

00:30:46.440 So it's the abuse of it.

00:30:48.400 God gives us, you know, gave us spiritual gifts.

00:30:52.740 And also, I think part of our mind is just able to function at times in that realm where we know something.

00:31:02.500 I had a Zoom call with a woman last night, and I could just tell some things.

00:31:06.420 And she was saying, how did you know this or that?

00:31:09.300 And so there's a, I think telepathy gets into that.

00:31:18.020 And I dislike the word.

00:31:19.580 When I was first invited on, I spoke with Kai for hours.

00:31:23.620 I was reluctant at first because, to me, the word carries some baggage.

00:31:28.220 And I prayed, and I felt like, no, I should go on.

00:31:30.280 I'll give the Christian perspective.

00:31:32.280 Because virtually all the spellers who I've met who see these things are talking about Jesus.

00:31:38.260 And it's not just anticipating a question.

00:31:41.500 It's not just, oh, their parents dragged them to church.

00:31:44.000 They heard about angels, and now they're projecting it.

00:31:47.520 I heard from non-Christian families or from lapsed Christians.

00:31:52.440 You know, the parents said, you know, we used to be whatever, Methodists.

00:31:56.740 And we haven't been to church in a decade.

00:31:58.820 And my daughter is talking about angels and this and that and seeing these things that got us back to church.

00:32:04.580 So you can see things like that as well.

00:32:08.260 And so when I went on to speak to Kai, I wanted to supply the spiritual dimension.

00:32:15.040 She had Diane Powell, who's a very respected psychiatrist.

00:32:18.600 And I've got to know Diane a little bit.

00:32:20.820 Diane taught at Harvard and Johns Hopkins, I believe.

00:32:24.000 And she wanted to talk about the more serious science.

00:32:28.120 And so I think she felt like that got lost in the, she called it the woo-woo of telepathy.

00:32:33.740 I felt a little bit the same way that I wanted to talk about the spiritual part of it.

00:32:39.940 And Kai, and this is not a criticism.

00:32:41.640 Kai is a brilliant filmmaker.

00:32:43.320 I like her.

00:32:44.440 You know, it's just not the story she wants to tell.

00:32:47.840 So she's finding the pieces that fit with her narrative.

00:32:52.160 And in particular, she was interested in my discussing studies because spelling was initially discredited in some forms.

00:33:01.620 There was an organization called ASHA that wrote criticisms of it.

00:33:05.440 There were about 40 negative studies going back to the 90s because of the way that they did some things.

00:33:10.760 The methods are dramatically improved.

00:33:14.720 There's more than 100 positive studies now after methodologies were changed.

00:33:20.600 They come, University of Virginia's Department of Psychiatry is a leader.

00:33:24.940 And they keep, you know, writing about how these things now, they're clearly in there and communicating.

00:33:33.900 You're getting studies like that at the University of Syracuse, Boston University, even Cambridge in England, Vanderbilt.

00:33:40.760 In fact, University of California, Berkeley, that bastion of conservatism, is admitting spellers with non-speaking autism.

00:33:52.360 This is one book somebody sent me.

00:33:54.060 It's got about 60 or so accounts of people who are first, you know, attenders in this college or that college.

00:34:02.180 So Kai was intrigued by that, the fact that I did a deep dive into the research that spelling is real.

00:34:08.540 We keep finding it's legitimate because the old complaints just keep getting recycled and they're not.

00:34:17.120 And it's odd that that's happening while spellers with autism are being admitted to universities.

00:34:22.220 The thing gets repeated often enough.

00:34:24.340 The other thing is there's old modalities.

00:34:27.660 There's funding behind old types of treatment, including heavy use of pharmaceuticals.

00:34:32.540 Whenever you start getting into something that's goring somebody's economic ox, they don't like that, you know.

00:34:41.620 So but spelling is unquestionably real.

00:34:44.480 There's more and more studies coming.

00:34:46.160 We're finding the person.

00:34:47.680 I've seen hundreds of these now.

00:34:49.340 And it's clearly the person.

00:34:50.980 And if you're out there and you said, oh, I heard somewhere about this, I explain this in detail in the book and even cite a number of the studies because it's just not true any longer that they should be discounted.

00:35:04.160 That don't get caught up on that old untruth.

00:35:07.460 Kai was interested in that.

00:35:08.840 The spiritual content got cut out.

00:35:10.580 It's so interesting because they run they run hand in hand.

00:35:15.420 One of the things that fascinated me.

00:35:17.620 We're at the 35 minute mark.

00:35:19.160 That's kind of what I was going to get a couple more minutes and then we'll I can give you I can give you guys as long as you like.

00:35:26.040 I have no limit.

00:35:26.620 Oh, no, it's just for the content of the we usually take the episode down, edit it.

00:35:31.880 So that way it's friendly for YouTube.

00:35:33.500 We don't get flagged on YouTube.

00:35:34.860 Yeah.

00:35:34.960 But anyway, I'll just I'll just ask the idea behind like spelling when she was initially talking about it.

00:35:43.460 The science was saying, well, it's not legitimate because sometimes a parent will put a hand on the child or even just a finger on the head.

00:35:51.220 And that's to help the child like locate their body.

00:35:55.960 Right, right.

00:35:57.000 You're well informed.

00:35:57.900 That was a type of facilitated communication.

00:35:59.960 They would apply a hand to the arm usually, but they would do it counter pressure because it's known people with, you know, significant levels of autism lose the feeling of their limbs.

00:36:14.600 And so doing that was just to help the arm get moving.

00:36:19.240 But then, you know, once the arm is moving, if you've got a hand on it, that opens you up to the criticism that your hand is guiding the arm.

00:36:29.260 So the newer forms of spelling, there's absolutely no touch.

00:36:34.140 It's very strict protocol.

00:36:35.600 It takes longer for them to get going, but it's very strict.

00:36:39.800 You know, no touch.

00:36:41.640 They only ask non-leading questions.

00:36:44.660 You can't ask questions that suggest the answer.

00:36:47.660 Or one other old criticism was, well, we're not able to duplicate it.

00:36:52.440 You spell with the person.

00:36:54.500 And when we put Harry in and Harry tries, it doesn't work.

00:36:58.020 And this, to me, misses by a mile.

00:37:00.620 This is the analogy I came up with to explain that.

00:37:04.000 The spellers have a bond with the person they're spelling with.

00:37:08.000 There's trauma.

00:37:10.000 There's, you know, it takes time for them to develop a relationship.

00:37:13.720 They have a sense of who loves them and cares about them.

00:37:17.440 So imagine, you know, a woman who's had severe, severe trauma, and she finds a therapist, and she finally is able to relate, and they open up, and she trusts her, and there's a, you know, a good therapeutical relationship going on.

00:37:32.040 And, you know, some guy comes along and says, well, I want to see if this is real.

00:37:36.860 You know, you get out.

00:37:37.720 I'm going to ask you questions.

00:37:38.820 How do you feel?

00:37:39.980 All right.

00:37:40.420 And it doesn't work.

00:37:41.640 Well, for that person to say, well, see, that proves there's nothing to therapy.

00:37:46.040 Well, it'd be absurd.

00:37:47.080 The relationship between the patient and the therapist in that illustration, something like the speller and the spelling facilitator, there's very much a personal, you know, element.

00:38:00.020 Cody knows Missy since he's a little boy.

00:38:02.780 He knows how dearly she loves him and vice versa.

00:38:06.440 And, you know, so that's an aspect of it.

00:38:08.660 So those criticisms are easily answered.

00:38:10.760 Some of them, in fact, have been just fully disproved, oh, you're moving the board to the finger.

00:38:17.260 That's how they're spelling.

00:38:18.860 University of Virginia said, okay, let's do a study.

00:38:21.620 We'll track eye movement and hand movement.

00:38:23.940 What comes first, the eye or the hand?

00:38:26.640 And they showed conclusively the eye goes to the letter first, and then the finger follows the eye.

00:38:33.220 And they said, this is clear.

00:38:34.800 There's activity of the brain wanting that letter.

00:38:37.360 So all these things have been answered.

00:38:39.340 The old complaints from the 90s just get recycled often enough that people don't, you know, people repeat them.

00:38:48.440 And that was why I took space in the book.

00:38:50.260 I had to, including an appendix, to cite some of the studies to show don't be thrown off by those things.

00:38:57.100 And I also took more space that I would have liked, examining it like a lawyer cross-examining for credibility, finding out there's a strong trend between, you know, non-speaking autism and truthfulness.

00:39:11.900 There are some studies who can go as far as saying they're incapable of lying because they lack the subtle social cues.

00:39:18.980 I don't think that's true.

00:39:20.940 It seems, though, that they tend to be more honest than usual people, the average person.

00:39:30.000 And that's very important for them, that you know who they are.

00:39:35.160 They've been stuck in there for ages.

00:39:37.340 They don't even have motives to lie, like for money.

00:39:41.360 If they have money for them, it's in a special needs trust that doesn't connect for them.

00:39:45.960 Attention, like a lot of people might go on YouTube and talk about visions and run up the numbers and monetize them.

00:39:52.120 People with that degree of autism, it's characterized often by repetitive motions, difficulty making eye contact, a desire for, you know, less stimulation.

00:40:03.820 They don't want noise.

00:40:05.080 I went into some of their Reddit groups and followed the dialogue, some who were able to type.

00:40:10.620 They dislike attention.

00:40:12.700 They like calm, repetition, quiet.

00:40:16.700 I've seen some of them say in those groups, when people pay attention to me, it reminds me of the trauma when I was a kid.

00:40:23.920 I was made fun of.

00:40:25.200 You go right through the reasons somebody would lie, and none of them line up.

00:40:30.340 So it's this amazingly developing picture of the likelihood that they're being truthful.

00:40:40.220 And then when you find out, I mean, at days, four of them come in, and they don't speak.

00:40:45.560 They can't.

00:40:46.060 They don't own phones.

00:40:47.200 They don't own text.

00:40:48.660 You know, it's countless times they come in.

00:40:51.520 There are four angels in the room today.

00:40:53.280 Every one of them will say it.

00:40:55.260 They know what people are thinking.

00:40:56.960 They know what people are saying.

00:40:58.600 They report what's happening in the spirit world.

00:41:01.120 They've seen things before they happen.

00:41:03.380 There's too many stories to recount.

00:41:05.120 So I just put the actual dialogues in so people can read and say, this is how they described it.

00:41:11.880 And some of them talk like Old Testament prophets.

00:41:15.120 Some of them have very, very deep ways of expressing things.

00:41:19.500 Like my friends Josiah and Houston, they're not in the church here.

00:41:23.340 You know, I put a chapter in them because of the incredible things they see and understand.

00:41:28.220 And they'll tell us that they're meant to be heralds, that God's made them heralds of something he's doing in the world.

00:41:34.100 See, it's one more thing.

00:41:36.680 I just want to say it's very unfair that there's like we have to do a double blind study on these autistic children.

00:41:42.320 It's like our research has shown us that they've been looking at this since at least the 50s.

00:41:48.920 Oh, yeah.

00:41:49.380 And the crazy part is that this person is mentioned on the telepathy tapes, but only in passing.

00:41:54.500 And this guy Andrzej Puharic, they go, oh, well, he developed a patent that is a dental tooth implant.

00:42:02.260 And Lucille Ball kind of suffered from this thing.

00:42:04.360 You remember this part where she gets the radio signal?

00:42:06.920 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:42:07.900 Fun story.

00:42:09.600 Yeah, I mean, but this guy's not so fun.

00:42:11.460 This guy's a government spook, and he's been around for a while.

00:42:14.960 And basically, his studies are back engineering telepathy.

00:42:18.720 He's written books about it.

00:42:19.880 He's also written books about mushrooms.

00:42:21.420 So he's dealing in the psychedelic realm as well.

00:42:23.700 They were on to this since the 50s, and they're asking questions in the 90s, 40 years later,

00:42:28.280 that just exist to trip you up and trip up these kids that are going through this thing.

00:42:34.240 They figured this out a while ago.

00:42:35.800 They figured out the disassociative state.

00:42:37.920 This is what I was saying with the arm on the hand or the shoulder of the child.

00:42:43.000 It's to help them to, I guess, vibrate.

00:42:46.100 It's almost like locate their body.

00:42:47.900 Yeah, exactly.

00:42:48.800 That's the way that many of them describe it.

00:42:51.100 They feel like their soul is vibrating here in their physical body, and when they're touched,

00:42:55.340 they're able to locate where they are here in the world.

00:42:57.200 It's like a calibration.

00:42:58.220 Yeah.

00:42:58.600 And this is all fascinating, and I think these things tie in.

00:43:02.640 And would you guys be okay if I make a little bit of a left turn here?

00:43:06.620 Go for it.

00:43:07.760 Yeah.

00:43:08.140 I think the thing we don't want to miss is that they are all talking about God.

00:43:13.740 They all, the ones I know, I've been told to be careful and not say they all, all the

00:43:19.480 ones I've met.

00:43:20.440 They talk about Jesus, even some who are not Christian.

00:43:23.600 And non-Christians with this is another interesting subject, but I want to say I've noticed a

00:43:29.660 lot of overlap between what they report and near-death experiences, and even some overlap

00:43:37.720 with the accounts of Christians, pardon me, of Muslims who see Jesus in dreams and visions.

00:43:44.140 It's been recounted in a number of books.

00:43:46.740 The guy who wrote A Wind in the House of Islam as a PhD from University of Chicago on a research,

00:43:53.540 it's there.

00:43:54.820 And what fascinates me now is this kind of overlapping of God speaking, almost like speaking to the

00:44:02.440 world through unlikely vehicles.

00:44:06.500 And again, you see this continually in the paradoxical ways of God, that God's power is

00:44:19.980 made perfect in weakness.

00:44:21.460 Paul says, 1 Corinthians 12, 8, he has three times for the thorn in the flesh to be removed,

00:44:27.660 and God's answer was, my grace is sufficient for you.

00:44:31.140 My power is made perfect in weakness.

00:44:33.660 You know, and Paul says, oh, I'd rather boast about my weakness so that, you know, the power

00:44:40.440 of God will boast of me.

00:44:41.320 And you get so many hints, you know, 2 Corinthians 4, we hold this treasure in jars of clay.

00:44:48.680 You know, 1 Corinthians chapter 1, you know, like verse 27, God's chosen the foolish things

00:44:56.480 of the world to confound the wise.

00:44:58.740 Again, we keep getting these hints of that.

00:45:00.860 And even where, you know, there's a time where Jesus rejoiced in the scripture, the Greek is kind

00:45:06.040 of like, he greatly exalted.

00:45:08.360 Like, you could just picture him smiling and laughing.

00:45:12.440 I'm curious, do you remember the reference where it says that of him, what he was rejoicing and

00:45:19.280 exalting about?

00:45:20.260 Well, most people don't.

00:45:23.860 It's in that hour, he rejoiced greatly in the spirit.

00:45:27.360 And he said, I thank you, Father, that you've concealed these things from those who are wise

00:45:31.840 in their own minds.

00:45:34.200 And you've revealed it to those who are babes, or those, I would say, I would add, who become

00:45:39.740 like children.

00:45:41.300 So here's God taking...

00:45:42.500 Matthew 24, right?

00:45:43.540 Like, you have to be like a child to enter into heaven, this idea?

00:45:46.900 Yeah, unless you become his children, you won't enter the kingdom of heaven.

00:45:51.040 And now we have a relationship with them.

00:45:53.220 A lot of times when I'm, you know, signing books for people now, you get...

00:45:58.680 And by the way, if people want the book, I'm sorry for saying this.

00:46:01.000 They could go on the website.

00:46:02.380 If they order it...

00:46:03.280 If they order it there, we just ask for a donation, whatever you can afford.

00:46:08.760 I sign all those that go out, and then every penny of it goes, you know, to the ministry

00:46:14.580 to help, you know, we want to have a special focus on autism.

00:46:20.360 And, you know, I'm fond of quoting Matthew 25, 40, what you've done for the least of these,

00:46:27.400 you've done for me.

00:46:28.560 So, you know, God is doing something here.

00:46:34.060 It's emerging.

00:46:35.180 Many of them have said to me, Joe, our story was meant to get out.

00:46:40.240 Jesus has told me all my life, my story is going to come out.

00:46:44.680 I'm going to glorify him through my autism, which raises all kinds of other questions.

00:46:49.100 Like, why aren't they getting healed instead of glorifying God in autism?

00:46:54.380 And they talk to Jesus.

00:46:56.640 They do.

00:46:57.540 You know, they have a lot to say about Jesus.

00:47:01.280 Well, I have other questions as well, like what afflicted them?

00:47:06.260 Why so many?

00:47:07.820 I mean, these are questions to God or perhaps the government, but why so many in this day

00:47:13.460 and age, so many children suffering?

00:47:16.000 I mean, like the percentage is going up.

00:47:17.600 And I know that there's discrepancies between how we diagnose it, but it, I mean, I forgot

00:47:24.280 the numbers, but it's like a thousand percent or something like that, that RFK Jr.

00:47:27.460 was saying.

00:47:28.100 It's right.

00:47:28.620 It's a huge increase.

00:47:29.980 We are diagnosing it more effectively.

00:47:32.440 Some friends sent me an academic article about part of the problem is, this is going to sound

00:47:37.360 weird.

00:47:37.760 It's almost becoming trendy.

00:47:39.880 People feel like.

00:47:40.560 Social contagion.

00:47:41.680 Yeah.

00:47:42.020 People say, I have a little autism and they're functioning fine and they speak and all of

00:47:46.060 that, but they feel like if they have just a touch, it makes them like Elon Musk.

00:47:50.020 They can be brilliant.

00:47:51.480 See, and that's what I was talking about before, Joe, with that subversive kind of little message

00:47:55.320 that gets slid across the table.

00:47:56.680 It goes, Hey, this is the next step in human development.

00:48:00.240 This is the next.

00:48:00.780 And there's like some sort of glorification of that when, to be perfectly honest, from

00:48:05.620 where I'm sitting, these look like injured children.

00:48:07.940 I don't think that anybody who's actually experienced this would say that this is the

00:48:12.500 next step in development and this is something that you should boast about.

00:48:16.340 Yeah, no, no, they, yeah, they struggle.

00:48:19.600 I mean, they, you know, many of them said to me, my, my mind and my body are at war.

00:48:24.340 They'll, they'll have these first out of frustration, you know, tantrums.

00:48:28.820 They can't control their body.

00:48:30.640 They thrash on the floor.

00:48:32.660 And afterward, if they're able to spell about it, they'll say, um, you, you don't understand

00:48:37.480 what it's like.

00:48:38.240 My brain can't get my body to do what, what it wants.

00:48:42.100 I was speaking at a conference in Orlando and doing a breakout session and I had a few

00:48:48.000 spellers there and we did back-to-back breakout sessions.

00:48:50.980 And one of the spellers, Elsa, came up and spelled for them.

00:48:55.280 The people were just spellbound.

00:48:56.800 And the second young man who's had a lot of trauma in his life, he was adopted from a

00:49:01.120 Bulgarian orphanage.

00:49:02.340 He's blind, loves his family.

00:49:05.860 Um, you know, he has food issues from eating paint chips when he was, there was no food in

00:49:10.660 the orphanage and all that.

00:49:12.160 He said, spells profound things.

00:49:14.440 And he started trying to spell and he lost control of his body.

00:49:18.540 He was thrashing on the floor.

00:49:20.380 And I just said to the, you know, the people in the room, this is the life his parents have.

00:49:25.780 This is where we want to meet them and love them because this kind of thing can happen

00:49:30.000 anytime.

00:49:30.940 It's not something to, but the interesting thing is that every one of them talks about

00:49:37.020 how much Jesus loves them.

00:49:38.380 I've maybe now read, it could be about a hundred accounts from people who describe it.

00:49:46.280 Uh, I've met them on zoom calls and, you know, all kinds of, met a good number in person now.

00:49:53.240 And I've asked many of them, what does Jesus look like?

00:49:56.680 The first answer I always get from them is some variation of this.

00:50:01.540 He looks like love.

00:50:03.740 He is the love of God for us.

00:50:06.540 He is God's love on display.

00:50:09.840 You and I, if we were asked to describe someone, we'd give a superficial answer, right?

00:50:13.880 Oh, five foot eight, has a beard, whatever.

00:50:16.600 They go right to the essence of who he is.

00:50:19.420 They're all riveted by his eyes.

00:50:21.600 They say his eyes have light.

00:50:23.520 And when they say, when you see his eyes, you're the only person in existence.

00:50:29.100 His attention is totally focused on you.

00:50:32.160 His love is so deep and profound.

00:50:34.560 There's no condemnation.

00:50:36.200 There's this deep acceptance to seeing your life.

00:50:39.960 Now, again, I've had people write and say, well, why are they seeing Jesus?

00:50:43.320 Why aren't they getting healed?

00:50:45.620 I, I, I can't answer that.

00:50:47.960 But they, a number of them have said that God wants me to glorify him through my autism

00:50:56.120 and to be a faithful witness.

00:50:59.080 So, I mean, you all can wrestle with, you know, the theology of that.

00:51:03.020 It's interesting.

00:51:03.640 They said, some of them send me books.

00:51:05.440 This was a book I spelled with Jeff.

00:51:07.440 It was his privately published, Lights in the Darkness.

00:51:10.140 It's about maybe 30 accounts or so.

00:51:13.200 And, and these are all people with non-speaking autism.

00:51:16.880 Story after story, just here, this is Angelo.

00:51:21.980 Jesus was a friend to me when I had no friends.

00:51:24.560 He shined the light of freedom in my life.

00:51:26.980 But it was my choice to choose freedom and allow the light in.

00:51:30.820 Jesus died for all of humanity.

00:51:33.760 They get the gospel very clearly.

00:51:36.520 There's no question.

00:51:37.200 The question, they don't say Jesus is one of many ways.

00:51:41.140 They say Jesus is the way the Father's given us.

00:51:44.340 He died to wipe the slate clean for our souls.

00:51:47.240 That's pretty direct.

00:51:48.680 He came to restore our hearts, minds, and bodies.

00:51:51.220 My heart was filled with self-hatred, resentment, and anger.

00:51:55.340 Through Jesus's love and sacrifice, my heart and mind were restored.

00:51:59.000 It all began when Jesus opened heaven's doors for me.

00:52:02.340 Angels of heaven have visited me in my sleep.

00:52:04.680 Since I was three years old, I was brought into the heavenly realm and shown the Lion of Judah.

00:52:10.640 He would walk in green pastures with me and pour his love into me.

00:52:14.880 These kind of stories are common.

00:52:17.520 And I love this one.

00:52:18.540 Jeff, who did this one, I love it.

00:52:20.880 He autographed it for me to Pastor Joe.

00:52:23.940 Nice.

00:52:24.540 Because he's one of the stories in it.

00:52:26.580 So they, they are very much talking about Jesus.

00:52:29.800 They go to a place called the Hill, which is hard to understand.

00:52:35.320 They're able to speak in, they don't use a word like telepathy.

00:52:38.780 They just say, we speak in, you just, in our mind, you don't need, it's spirit speaking to spirit.

00:52:45.520 So they don't need to use a body, you know, and all of that.

00:52:50.040 They describe it as a place where there's freedom.

00:52:52.820 By the way, they not only fellowship with each other, like the telepathy tapes has picked up.

00:52:59.440 They go there to intercede for us.

00:53:01.760 They go there to meet with Jesus.

00:53:03.620 They get work assignments.

00:53:06.140 They go, there are all kinds of things happening.

00:53:08.320 And most of them won't tell me.

00:53:09.840 I've heard a number of times, we're not allowed to say this.

00:53:13.360 There's a code there.

00:53:14.940 A lot of times in response to questions, they will say, I'm not allowed to talk about that.

00:53:22.660 And they'll say to someone, you need to read your Bible, pray and trust God.

00:53:26.500 They don't view themselves as little oracles or mystics.

00:53:31.580 They're always pointing people to know Jesus personally.

00:53:35.300 Get to know God, you know, like Jeremiah 9, 24, you know,

00:53:39.440 I delight in this, the one who understands and knows me, says the Lord.

00:53:45.620 So that element of things is very much in play, too.

00:53:50.880 Joe, I wonder if we could talk a little bit about some of the things in particular.

00:53:55.920 This story of the telepathy tapes is important.

00:53:59.040 And I think the reason, you know, it's obvious to me is the way that it caught fire.

00:54:04.260 This resonates with people.

00:54:06.240 We have been stripped of our spiritual understanding, especially here in the West.

00:54:09.440 And this is now that, you know, something that looks like spiritual food.

00:54:14.080 Huge omission.

00:54:15.720 I mean, you know, I understand we already talked about it.

00:54:19.620 We've added these caveats.

00:54:21.520 You can't include everything.

00:54:23.940 Kai has an agenda.

00:54:25.120 And this specific thing that's been omitted is, in my opinion,

00:54:29.980 the most important aspect of this entire story.

00:54:33.460 And specifically the way Joe is talking about it, you seem like a man with decent discernment.

00:54:40.400 And that's my, I've never spoken to any of these kids.

00:54:43.200 My main holdup would have been, you know, test the spirits.

00:54:46.980 That's what the Bible says.

00:54:47.800 When something approaches you, like, I don't know.

00:54:50.020 And I know if I'm thrown into this spiritual realm, I'm going to be a little confused on what to trust, where to go.

00:54:56.560 I wouldn't even, I don't even want to go there.

00:54:58.040 I have no interest in moving around there.

00:55:00.680 A lot of people do, like, astral projection.

00:55:02.240 I'm like, no, no, no, not me.

00:55:03.960 And these kids are kind of, I have some life experience.

00:55:07.400 I'm from New York, too.

00:55:08.300 So I know how to walk around the streets.

00:55:09.660 I know how to handle myself a little bit.

00:55:11.360 Forget about it.

00:55:12.080 I know I like it for some reason.

00:55:14.140 You know what I mean?

00:55:14.740 When you see trouble, you know how to, like, okay, well, this might be a problem.

00:55:18.480 These kids are in their houses, but then they're thrusted into the spiritual realm.

00:55:23.800 So, like, my question was, like, how do they know what's what?

00:55:27.480 But you're saying that the initial, I mean, not just the initial, but the overall sentiment that you're getting from these guys is that they know their stuff and their fruits wear that.

00:55:39.020 Well, yeah, yes and no.

00:55:41.280 That's a great question.

00:55:42.340 And the angels at times are very obvious.

00:55:46.800 They're light.

00:55:47.560 They're light-bearing.

00:55:49.560 And they'll say, you know, angels are worshiping God.

00:55:53.740 They're obeying Jesus and all that.

00:55:56.500 Sometimes demons are easy to detect.

00:55:58.580 They're dark.

00:55:59.740 There's a hateful aspect to them.

00:56:02.320 There are times that, I mean, I've talked to some of them, and I'll pray with them and for them, and they ask me questions.

00:56:08.460 We've had to go through discerning of spirits.

00:56:10.860 You know, I can think of times, and I'm not an expert on this.

00:56:15.460 People think, like, Joe has the answers.

00:56:17.860 I'm feeling my way around a room, and I keep becoming aware there's dozens of other rooms in this place that I get hints about.

00:56:25.540 I don't even know how to process this.

00:56:27.020 But there are times that, you know, the Bible says Satan can appear as an angel of light, you know, where I'll hear things like, I'm really troubled.

00:56:35.080 Okay, let's talk about it.

00:56:36.560 You know, the spirit was asking me questions.

00:56:40.240 Why did God let this happen?

00:56:42.120 All right, well, that's pretty easy.

00:56:43.700 Let's go back to the Garden of Eden was the original temptation, asking the question, has God really said, and all that.

00:56:51.580 And then a lot of times what I'll do with them is we'll talk about the fruit of the spirit.

00:56:55.240 And, you know, I'll say, how did you feel after that?

00:56:59.840 Well, I felt afraid.

00:57:01.520 Okay, what does the scripture say?

00:57:03.160 God's not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and sound thinking.

00:57:08.100 And we walk through those things.

00:57:10.120 And they get it quickly, and they say, wow, thanks, yes.

00:57:13.540 And, you know, they want prayer.

00:57:14.920 They want to understand things.

00:57:16.460 Sometimes they see things, and they don't get it, or they don't get the context.

00:57:22.600 You know, is that in the scripture, Joe?

00:57:25.000 Yeah, I can think of examples.

00:57:27.440 Notably, when the apostle Paul is on his way to Jerusalem, the prophet Agabus comes, takes Paul's garment, binds his hands, and says, you know, the Lord says the one who owns this piece of clothing is going to be handed over to the Jews and all.

00:57:43.260 And, you know, Luke says we all started pleading with him, don't go, don't go.

00:57:49.280 And Paul said, why are you breaking my heart?

00:57:51.240 I'm ready to go and die.

00:57:52.340 And earlier he had said, every place I go, the spirit bears witness that chains await me.

00:57:59.800 But what Paul knew from his intimate walk with Jesus was from his very call when Ananias went to pray for him that the scales would fall of his eyes.

00:58:09.020 God said, he's a witness to me to speak before kings and rulers, and I'll show him what great things he must suffer for my sake.

00:58:18.300 So the people there had heard from the Holy Spirit, Paul, this is what awaits you.

00:58:23.400 But they drew the wrong conclusion.

00:58:25.860 Therefore, don't go.

00:58:27.320 And Paul was saying, no, I'm supposed to go.

00:58:29.960 That's exactly my destiny.

00:58:31.960 So I helped them.

00:58:32.900 And sometimes they don't understand things.

00:58:35.360 There was a time a couple of them asked me about incense.

00:58:38.460 Why do they smell incense when, you know, when angels are more active and fighting?

00:58:47.220 And, you know, if you want to come back to that, I'll tell you about that.

00:58:50.400 You can't skip over that.

00:58:52.440 I'm sorry.

00:58:53.100 That's good.

00:58:54.300 Okay.

00:58:55.060 All right.

00:58:55.420 All right.

00:58:55.980 This is a technique.

00:58:56.900 I mean, the first episode I've ever done when I started this podcast, I interviewed my aunt and she was having demonic oppression.

00:59:03.700 She went to a witch doctor in Puerto Rico.

00:59:05.680 Wrong move.

00:59:06.780 And they had her lighting incense.

00:59:09.480 And it seemed like it would help for a little while and then it would intensify and it would help again.

00:59:15.640 And then the attacks would intensify.

00:59:17.380 So what is that?

00:59:18.260 What's that about?

00:59:18.860 Yeah, I mean, I keep telling people, love God, keep getting closer to Jesus and trusting him.

00:59:24.620 And those, you know, those, I mean, there are times I've done plenty of spiritual warfare and had those situations and prayed and, you know, removed demons and all.

00:59:33.220 But you don't want to be afraid of them.

00:59:37.780 When you encounter them and believers, Jesus gave us authority over serpents and scorpions.

00:59:42.520 He gave us balance, too.

00:59:43.960 Don't rejoice over that.

00:59:46.100 Rejoice instead that your name is written in the book of life.

00:59:48.780 People can have unhealthy obsessions with those ideas.

00:59:52.780 When we encounter them, we deal with them.

00:59:55.260 The main thing we're called to do is glorify God and love him and be witnesses of who he is.

01:00:00.740 So, but the incense, Matthew had asked for prayer about something.

01:00:05.100 At the end of it, he asked me, why do I spell, why do I smell incense?

01:00:10.780 And he spelled the name of an incense.

01:00:13.000 It was something like amaranth.

01:00:14.840 My first thought was, oh, great.

01:00:17.840 I'm just getting my brain wrapped around they see and they hear.

01:00:21.380 Now they're smelling, too.

01:00:22.900 And at first that struck me as really odd.

01:00:26.620 So, you know, we talked a little while.

01:00:28.900 I said, let me think about this, Matthew.

01:00:30.420 I'll come back and talk to you about it.

01:00:31.920 And I started thinking, okay, we have five senses.

01:00:36.300 Do other senses operate?

01:00:38.580 Well, both Ezekiel and John and Revelation are handed a scroll and they're holding it, touch.

01:00:44.860 They're told, eat the scroll.

01:00:46.800 They do.

01:00:47.620 And it's sweet in their mouth.

01:00:49.000 So they've got taste.

01:00:50.200 And I thought, all right, if everything else is working, why would smell not be working?

01:00:55.980 I looked up online amaranth.

01:00:57.960 It's funny.

01:00:58.440 There's a close spelling variation.

01:01:00.700 There's an incense of that name.

01:01:02.680 And it is made by, I can order, of monks in some obscure place.

01:01:08.280 And so I started thinking, okay, let's try to wrap our hands around this.

01:01:13.700 It's active when angels are ministering and we're praying.

01:01:17.760 And I thought, wait, Revelation 5, Revelation 8, those chapters talk about incense.

01:01:22.800 You go to them.

01:01:24.740 Those chapters say that incense presented in heaven is the prayers of the saints.

01:01:31.000 They're in a bowl and the angels are lifting the bowl before God.

01:01:37.040 They're the ones administering the, you know, bearing the prayers.

01:01:42.920 And so suddenly, wow.

01:01:45.120 So when we're praying and they smell that incense, so maybe incense is more literal in that prayer

01:01:52.140 than we realize.

01:01:53.780 It was a feature, even going back to the tabernacle, there was an altar of incense.

01:01:57.540 It got put right on the curtain next to the Holy of Holies where the Ark of the Covenant was.

01:02:03.240 And every day, you know, the priest was lighting the incense.

01:02:08.000 And that represented, even then, the prayers of the saints rising up.

01:02:13.000 So they keep opening doors and windows on these marvelous biblical pictures and verses.

01:02:21.820 They start tying together.

01:02:23.180 But do we get the whole picture?

01:02:24.920 Of course not.

01:02:26.200 But the Sermon of Spirits is very important, and I've worked with them on that.

01:02:30.540 But there are certain things that are self-evident to them.

01:02:33.540 That gives a little bit new meaning as well.

01:02:35.660 You've got my brain just going.

01:02:38.080 When Mary pours the perfume on Jesus, he wipes it with her hair.

01:02:42.480 It's more than just the sacrifice.

01:02:45.200 Because that was like a yearly wage or something like that.

01:02:47.700 Didn't the Magi bring like incense and myrrh?

01:02:50.180 Like frankincense and myrrh.

01:02:51.300 Frankincense and myrrh.

01:02:52.000 And gold.

01:02:52.580 Yeah, yeah.

01:02:53.760 Really makes you question, is it not just like a, is it more than just a profession or like a gift?

01:03:00.600 Maybe we should burn incense in here.

01:03:02.060 Probably not.

01:03:03.200 I looked into Discernment of Spirits, and I wrote about that too, as well as the Ministry of Angels and Demons.

01:03:09.560 Like some people are freaked out, and they say, oh, they're hearing from angels.

01:03:13.920 That's bad, you know.

01:03:15.080 Well, no, the word angel, angelos means messenger.

01:03:19.120 Angels are bringing messages through all of Scripture.

01:03:22.200 I mean, just start with the New Testament, you know, Zachariah, John's parents, you know, Mary, Joseph, shepherds.

01:03:30.740 I mean, on and on and on and all that.

01:03:33.080 And I think what people have to understand is spirits are the same, demons are the same order of creation, but they're fallen.

01:03:44.020 They're in rebellion against God.

01:03:45.820 You know, Revelation 12, the devil, the dragon, and his angels fought against Michael and his angels, and there was war in heaven.

01:03:53.040 They're in rebellion against God, which is why, you know, our warfare is not against flesh and blood, but they're the same type, the same order of being.

01:04:04.060 So there's similarities in the way they were created, just not, they're no longer missional.

01:04:10.740 They're no longer worshiping God.

01:04:12.860 But, you know, you're thinking of maybe Galatians, if an angel brings you another, you know, gospel, it should be an anathema, it's a curse, reject it, and all that.

01:04:23.820 These are not angels bringing another gospel.

01:04:27.720 This is the same.

01:04:29.000 They're doing the same role.

01:04:30.180 They're bringing comfort.

01:04:31.480 They're bringing the love of God.

01:04:33.600 You know, say, look, Paul and the terrible storm and the ship that was going to crash and the people on it thought we're all dead for sure.

01:04:42.020 Paul says to them, good news, an angel of the God I serve appeared to me last night.

01:04:46.980 God's graciously given all the lives on the ship, you know, but you all have to stay with it.

01:04:52.820 And so, you know, you want to be careful not to take one verse out of context.

01:04:57.900 The angels love the Lord.

01:04:59.560 They worship.

01:05:00.500 They fight for us.

01:05:01.740 They talk about there's a couple here and they're guarding today.

01:05:05.760 And this was an interesting story.

01:05:09.060 When Cody's mom, Glory, was on vacation, they were in a room in a hotel and Cody was sitting in another part of the room.

01:05:21.300 And Glory was reading an earlier version of the manuscript.

01:05:25.460 And Cody suddenly spoke up and said, Elisha, Elisha.

01:05:30.880 Again, non-speaking is preferred over non-verbal because they can sometimes say words or even a few words or a fragment of a sentence.

01:05:38.380 Just the speech is not reliable.

01:05:40.680 So she thought, that's interesting.

01:05:42.360 Why would he say Elisha?

01:05:43.720 She went back to the book and kept reading.

01:05:47.100 In the next paragraph, I was writing about Elisha and his servant at the city, I believe it was Dothan, where the servant's freaking out because the enemy troops are all around.

01:05:58.440 Elisha says, don't worry.

01:06:00.880 There's more with us than with them.

01:06:02.720 You know, Lord, open his eyes.

01:06:04.460 And the servant is able to see the hillside covered with chariots of fire and, you know, and angels.

01:06:11.360 And so Elisha just had that ability to see into the realm.

01:06:15.740 There are times in scripture and even now in this world I've met people.

01:06:20.140 I don't have that ability, but I've met people who say they do.

01:06:23.700 And so Glory was just amazed in the next spelling session.

01:06:29.860 She said, Cody, why did you say Elisha?

01:06:32.880 Jesus told me that you were reading about Elisha and angels.

01:06:37.180 And I wanted you to know that I really do see angels.

01:06:40.120 So these stories are the new norm for me, for many of these persons with non-speaking autism.

01:06:47.760 They glorify God.

01:06:49.480 They want people to be ready.

01:06:51.260 A lot of them say Jesus is coming quickly.

01:06:54.320 And it could be God is doing something in this world.

01:06:58.060 It's wild because this is not, this is obviously by this conversation become the norm for you.

01:07:04.640 And, you know, it's spread across multiple individuals.

01:07:07.560 What a great world to live in.

01:07:08.340 It is a fantastic world.

01:07:09.520 But it's not the one that we get, you know, from sort of the cold clinical diagnosis of a nonverbal autistic individual.

01:07:17.240 That's not what we're subjected to.

01:07:19.380 That's not part of the narrative or anything like that.

01:07:21.760 And, you know, this entire thing, this omission is a tremendous one.

01:07:27.000 And it's an important one that will change dramatically the way that you perceive not only this phenomenon, but also what it means in the larger picture.

01:07:35.240 And clearly what it means in the larger picture is that Jesus is real.

01:07:40.220 This unseen realm, you know, as Heiser puts it, is real.

01:07:44.120 And these people are interacting with that realm in a way that far exceeds the average person's capability of interacting with it.

01:07:51.940 I wonder, could you talk about any specific moments or instances, rather, that were omitted from this final product that you would have really liked to have seen in there?

01:08:04.660 I mean, this whole thing, this whole omission is a huge one.

01:08:09.080 And after this, I want to talk about what was put in its stead, because I feel like that's maybe the most important thing to drive home to our audiences.

01:08:17.260 It's kind of like preaching to the choir, but, you know, this gets out.

01:08:20.620 And you're referring to the telepathy tapes.

01:08:23.340 To the telepathy tapes.

01:08:24.280 Was there anything that wasn't seen by people that should have been seen by people?

01:08:29.000 Yeah, the biggest thing is that they're all talking about, from my experience, the ones I meet, they're all talking about Jesus.

01:08:36.140 Even ones who didn't come from church backgrounds.

01:08:40.300 And, you know, I think the telepathy tapes editing was interested in my comments on why spelling is reliable and some of the science and all of that.

01:08:52.680 And then also, like, you know, Kai left in a story about that they'll see things before they happen.

01:09:01.160 That freaks out some people like, what time?

01:09:04.080 Is that like, you know, fortune telling or something?

01:09:06.760 No, but God is outside of time.

01:09:09.780 The prophet Agabus foresaw a famine and the church said, okay, we'll get ready.

01:09:14.160 You know, Joseph interpreted Pharaoh's dream, the famine's coming, you know, and all that.

01:09:19.880 This was just one of the, you know, a young woman kept telling her dad, be careful.

01:09:25.280 You're going to slip on ice and get hurt very badly.

01:09:27.760 Please be careful.

01:09:28.600 Please be careful.

01:09:29.680 And he came to see me and, you know, I got to know him and he came to faith in Christ through all this.

01:09:35.680 And he said, she keeps warning me of this, but we're in Phoenix.

01:09:39.720 We don't get much ice.

01:09:40.720 He, uh, weeks later, he was on a business trip in the Midwest and he texted me from an emergency room to say, um, you're not going to believe this.

01:09:51.860 I went back to the hotel.

01:09:53.240 I slipped on ice, broke my hip.

01:09:56.020 They're putting in hardware.

01:09:57.680 Uh, you know, here is a picture of the x-ray that they took.

01:10:01.980 And so, I mean, this is just, it's just kind of really, really wild stuff.

01:10:08.020 Um, but these, these things, you know, um, these things keep happening.

01:10:12.640 What I would have liked to have seen, I don't want to lose track of your question, is the, the people I'm meeting and talking to are, are all so connected to God doing something.

01:10:29.040 Um, uh, really connected with the idea of God's love, uh, really connected with, you know, the idea that they're supposed to be messengers, that they're gifts for us.

01:10:42.340 That's one of the reasons we use hidden gifts ministry right now.

01:10:46.500 And when we think of people with those kinds of disabilities, the word burden creeps into our mind.

01:10:51.620 Who's going to care for them?

01:10:52.940 They have to be fed or this or that and, and all.

01:10:56.340 Well, once we get to know them, we see what's inside them to learn that they're interceding for us.

01:11:01.900 That, I mean, they've shared insights.

01:11:04.620 And some of them have said to me, Joe, Jesus wants you to know this.

01:11:07.680 And shared intensely profound personal things and, and all.

01:11:12.120 Um, I, I, I, I think I'm sorry, what didn't get out is that God wants to change the way we see every human being, especially the ones whom we discount.

01:11:24.400 Every human being is an image bearer of God.

01:11:27.220 We draw wrong conclusions.

01:11:28.760 We, we idolize the rich, the famous, the great athletes, you know, the influencers and all that.

01:11:36.360 And sometimes God moves the most powerfully through the least of these, that person on the street.

01:11:42.760 And I think God wants to see people differently.

01:11:45.880 And I wish more of that had come out.

01:11:48.920 Also, Kai said that they, people tend to see God in their tradition.

01:11:56.820 And she left it at that.

01:11:58.840 I think that's a kind of unfair understatement.

01:12:02.640 Oh, I don't want to say that.

01:12:03.960 That sounds like I'm criticizing her.

01:12:05.780 And that, that's her way of explaining it.

01:12:08.140 I, I think that that doesn't adequately explain what I've seen and how much God and, and Jesus are up the center of it, even where people come from other religious backgrounds.

01:12:22.200 Let me say it that way.

01:12:23.120 Like, right.

01:12:24.280 Like the, the consistent overlap and description is, is something that you can't, or the, well, you know, the other people, naysayers can't explain away.

01:12:33.700 I guess they'll do their best and, you know, good luck to them.

01:12:37.200 But something, something interesting that you, that you had mentioned as well about like this, this foresight of something that is going to happen.

01:12:45.260 Maybe even, it probably happens to them, even like maybe minuscule things like, yeah, you might drop that pen.

01:12:49.940 They saw that a couple seconds before and whatever.

01:12:52.640 Um, in our, our studies with, uh, our friend, Dr. Jerry Marzinski, who was a licensed psychotherapist for 30 something years.

01:12:59.660 He, he thinks that, uh, the condition of schizophrenia is actually more of a spiritual condition rather than just hallucinations because it draws patterns.

01:13:10.960 But one of those patterns would be people having like this kind of foresight of things right before that, right before they happen.

01:13:18.300 Precognition.

01:13:18.900 Yeah.

01:13:19.140 Precognition.

01:13:19.740 It's just a very interesting overlap or thought or like, I don't know quite where to put it, but there is a condition that these people have and it's giving them these abilities that sort of overlap.

01:13:33.800 Like, you know, obviously schizophrenia, they'd say that they're being tormented by demons, but they're in a, they're communicating with another realm.

01:13:42.600 You know, they've kicked over.

01:13:43.680 Yeah, these are very, yeah, very tough.

01:13:45.640 I mean, there were legitimate forms of mental illness and people who, who do better on medications and all that.

01:13:52.800 And I think we have to approach this with a lot of wisdom and discernment and then remember as well.

01:13:58.760 I mean, somebody might see something, but not interpret it correctly.

01:14:03.000 So of necessity, we have to stick very closely to the Bible.

01:14:07.220 I said in the introduction, when I dove into this world and started examining it, you know, as a skeptic, one of my opening, you know, you know, foundations was if it's anti-biblical, if it contradicts the scripture, it has to be thrown out.

01:14:24.760 There's something else happening here.

01:14:26.240 And that's not been the case.

01:14:27.960 It's everything I've seen with my experience, the people I've spoken with is always biblical.

01:14:33.860 And it's very strongly correlates to, to Jesus.

01:14:37.580 He's, he's so prominent in this.

01:14:41.460 Do you, do the people that you talk to also have like the, the premonition of this like catastrophe, this thing happening?

01:14:50.020 Oh, that's an interesting question.

01:14:50.960 Because that's, this is what the telepathy tapes draws its conclusion at sort of where it's like, there's going to be a destruction of some type or a polar shift or a, I don't know.

01:15:01.780 We're going to, in other words, a global catastrophe that needs to be sidestepped in some way, shape or form.

01:15:09.120 If we don't do this, I believe the way the telepathy tapes kind of leaves it off is, is, and I don't disagree with this message.

01:15:15.880 If you look at it through a biblical lens, it's like being good shepherds, you know, to the earth, or not shepherds.

01:15:21.820 What's the, there's a.

01:15:23.180 Stewards.

01:15:24.260 Stewards, thank you.

01:15:25.040 Um, but this sort of thing comes up a lot in our, in our research.

01:15:30.780 I mean, is there anything when you're, when you're talking to these kids, are they concerned one way or another with the state of the earth and the trajectory?

01:15:38.360 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:38.560 It's also a preface.

01:15:39.440 I like to preface it too.

01:15:40.680 So there's no trickery in the question because when we, when we talk to people who are like alien abductees.

01:15:45.980 They get the same message.

01:15:47.240 They get the same message.

01:15:48.280 They're talking about the intergalactic federation of light.

01:15:51.180 Like galactic, yeah, yeah.

01:15:52.260 Yeah, and, and they're like, there's going to be a catastrophe and that's why we need to ascend.

01:15:56.920 And a lot of new age thought leads to this.

01:15:59.180 And we heard the same thing coming from some of the kids, uh, in the telepathy tapes, or at least that's what was told, uh, through the podcast.

01:16:07.400 And I'm just like, I don't know where to put it.

01:16:10.700 How, how prevalent is that sort of message?

01:16:12.680 Yeah, not, it's not super common.

01:16:15.200 Um, I've gotten some hints of it and not really been able to explore it.

01:16:21.500 I, I wouldn't be comfortable saying that they're actually saying that the, the, and bear in mind, spelling is, is, is a difficult process.

01:16:33.060 When you see the book and you see, you know, one page with a spelling conference, that could have taken an hour.

01:16:38.380 Imagine having to get your body going and point to a letter and it can be slow for some and delete that letter and all.

01:16:47.200 And it, the, the main things have been one, they want people to know who they are.

01:16:52.500 I'm in here.

01:16:53.680 It's, it's thrilling for them.

01:16:55.340 Their families are meeting them and finding out what they're interested in.

01:16:58.800 Then second, they want people to know they do see the spiritual world.

01:17:03.800 Jesus is real.

01:17:05.560 They see angels and demons.

01:17:07.480 They see them fighting over us.

01:17:09.200 So the kind of focusing on those things, those are the most immediate parts.

01:17:15.160 And sometimes it's hard to get subtleties.

01:17:17.880 Like I could ask you guys a question, you give me an answer.

01:17:20.520 I could follow up and get some nuance.

01:17:22.900 It's really difficult to do that.

01:17:25.920 So while, you know, I've gotten maybe occasionally hints about that.

01:17:30.340 It's not a popular or prominent subject.

01:17:34.520 And even there, if that was coming, you know, now and then from somebody, I would want to know more about the context.

01:17:43.160 And even, you know, I would want to have some spiritual discernment, what they might be hearing, from whom they might hear it.

01:17:52.200 Now, you could look at Matthew 24 and Luke 21 and the signs before Jesus returns, unless those days were cut short, no life would survive.

01:18:01.940 You know, signs in the heaven, you know, earthquakes, famines, pestilence, and all that.

01:18:06.900 But you can certainly see those kinds of things in the scripture.

01:18:12.780 And yet it's interesting.

01:18:14.520 Jesus does not give us a lot of detail.

01:18:16.860 We don't know the day or the hour.

01:18:18.280 We get some hints about the season when you see these things begin to come to pass, lift up your head, you know, your redemption's drawing close and all that.

01:18:28.680 But it seems like whenever those things come up, the focus is not on the events.

01:18:35.540 The focus is on be ready.

01:18:38.800 You know, if the servant knew what time the master was returning, he would have been ready.

01:18:46.320 There's a lot of parables and teaching where the Lord's conveying, you don't know, it's going to come unexpected.

01:18:55.180 It's going to be like in the days of Noah.

01:18:57.000 They were eating and drinking and partying and wham, it hit, you know.

01:19:00.540 But the focus just seems to be be more focused on walking intimately with me, getting your relationship in order, making daily time with me a priority, get in your Bible, pray, see what I've got for you to do.

01:19:18.980 And then you're ready.

01:19:20.800 You're walking in readiness.

01:19:21.980 If tomorrow there's a 9-11 type event, but a hundred times worse, we're not going to be scrambling.

01:19:30.560 Where do we run to get answers?

01:19:32.200 Oh, no, we better go to.

01:19:33.400 Every time those things happen, the churches are full, right?

01:19:35.940 People want answers.

01:19:37.800 I think Jesus wants us to live in a way that we know him more intimately and trust him and love him where he's the answer.

01:19:44.920 We don't have to have fear in those situations where, you know, we're lifting up our head.

01:19:52.100 That's a sign of expectation and almost rejoicing that the culmination of the greatest thing God's promised us is coming.

01:20:00.560 So, again, we don't get a lot of detail on that.

01:20:04.060 If I hear more, I'll let you guys know and we can, you know, pick up the theme on it.

01:20:08.840 But, you know, my response to that would be the more that you hear, the more you should focus on being ready.

01:20:16.680 Interesting little tidbit for you.

01:20:18.140 And I think that is, you know, that's well said.

01:20:23.940 And I'm glad to hear that that is the message that comes across.

01:20:28.240 Something that you might find interesting, we had a writer or listener submit an email to us and say that, you know,

01:20:34.760 she's the mother of a nonverbal or non-speaking autistic child.

01:20:39.840 And that through one way or another, you know, she didn't go into great detail,

01:20:44.340 but she brought these concepts up to her child after hearing about us talk about the telepathy tape.

01:20:51.160 And he was receptive.

01:20:53.340 One thing led to another.

01:20:54.520 And he seemed to insinuate that the Hill was in Utah.

01:20:59.440 So, you know, in other words, he had experienced the Hill as well and then said that it was in Utah, interestingly enough.

01:21:05.580 Now, you know, who knows to what degree there's communication there or if that was what the actual message was.

01:21:12.180 I understand these things can be difficult, but I just thought that that was a fascinating.

01:21:15.840 Yeah. Yeah.

01:21:16.460 Can I say a word about the Hill?

01:21:17.960 Please.

01:21:18.180 It's hard to know what it is.

01:21:22.160 It's not heaven, but it seems to be something like a suburb of heaven.

01:21:27.280 There are colors that you've never seen, the colors you'll know and colors beyond.

01:21:33.040 Everything worships God.

01:21:35.880 The flowers, they're very important to the spellers.

01:21:38.540 I tried to describe a little of what they said about that, that the flowers have emit energy, which is the creative energy of God.

01:21:46.320 And the people are tied to flowers somehow, whatever that mysterious sentence means.

01:21:52.720 But often they're aware that the city is that way, you know, or something like that.

01:22:00.100 And it seems that there's fields and some of them have described fields and places that's just beautiful.

01:22:06.160 Gold is a common color of, you know, the vegetation there.

01:22:11.020 But everything worships God.

01:22:12.420 The plants are worshiping God.

01:22:14.320 The animals, there's animals, they say.

01:22:16.240 The animals are worshiping God.

01:22:17.640 So all these things are, you know, happening there.

01:22:22.080 And I just want to add this, because a lot of times people hear these things and they go, oh, that's my child.

01:22:27.240 My child's not speaking autism.

01:22:29.240 I would just recommend that they go to that hiddengiftsministry.org.

01:22:34.180 My dear friends, Matt and Glory, Cody's parents, have lived this.

01:22:38.900 How do you bring siblings into it?

01:22:42.400 From the shock of the diagnosis and the fear, like what's going to happen?

01:22:47.640 After we're gone and this and that.

01:22:49.900 That's why we're trying to, that's Cody when he was young there.

01:22:52.800 That's what we're trying to put lots of resources, including information about spelling, places you might be able to, you know, find a spelling facilitator.

01:23:04.220 I don't do that.

01:23:05.040 I don't know how to do it.

01:23:06.620 I've tried to with Cody.

01:23:08.020 We've had some limited success.

01:23:09.600 But there, you know, there's a resources page.

01:23:13.220 There's some good books there, like Underestimated.

01:23:16.880 We're putting a link to getting government, you know, resources or help.

01:23:23.360 We want to keep loading this with free resources so that as you meet people, you can recommend it to them.

01:23:30.380 You've got a friend at work.

01:23:32.260 So do me a favor.

01:23:33.080 Just go check out that website.

01:23:35.540 We want people to be blessed.

01:23:37.120 And if we're able to do what we want to scholarship people to, because spelling is not covered by insurance and a lot of people can't afford it.

01:23:46.520 We would love to scholarship people who want to study spelling, who will agree to work with low income people to help them meet their kids.

01:23:55.200 You'll see where you buy spelling boards, where you get lessons.

01:23:59.540 You can get lessons free and download them if you want to try this on your own.

01:24:04.800 You'll see interviews with people who have gone through it.

01:24:08.040 I feel like I don't want to talk about this and just convey the mystic parts of it.

01:24:13.380 I love the mystic parts.

01:24:14.560 I live for that, too.

01:24:16.400 My heart is really to reach the people walking through this to say, hey, there's going to be help here for you.

01:24:23.360 We want to glorify God together in this.

01:24:26.700 And then in the unexpected, you know, paradoxical ways of God, we reach to comfort them and love them.

01:24:35.120 And then it turns out they're a provision for us and they're blessing us with insights that knock me off my chair.

01:24:43.240 So this is just God being God, doing it both ways.

01:24:46.960 So people listening, a starting point of what can I do for spelling?

01:24:52.380 Don't go to me personally.

01:24:53.920 Go to Hidden Gifts.

01:24:55.100 If you email us there, we'll get back to you, too.

01:24:57.640 But go there and look at resources and start reading more about it.

01:25:02.460 And that's like the first step into it.

01:25:03.900 Maybe a question you can answer.

01:25:06.500 I don't know.

01:25:07.680 Again, he's like, don't ask me, but I'm going to ask you.

01:25:11.220 So I see the spelling board here.

01:25:13.460 But is there going to be a prerequisite for the child to, I mean, they have to know the letters.

01:25:21.260 They have to know the language.

01:25:23.120 Here's the shocking thing.

01:25:25.260 They're autodidactic.

01:25:26.500 I've asked many of them, how did you learn how to spell?

01:25:31.540 They spell big, complex words.

01:25:34.100 You know, one of Cody's early spelling sessions, he was asked a genus and species of a narwhal.

01:25:40.840 And he answered, Mono, today, his mom almost fell off her chair.

01:25:46.700 So University of Virginia has had a lot of good info on this.

01:25:49.880 And a short answer, we live in a print-rich environment.

01:25:54.640 We take words for granted.

01:25:57.080 They're all around us.

01:25:58.280 I'm sitting here with you right now.

01:26:00.340 Virtually everywhere I look in my office, I'm seeing words.

01:26:03.860 So they've lived.

01:26:04.920 They've heard people pronounce words.

01:26:06.860 They've seen what people are seeing.

01:26:09.620 They get the letters and all of that.

01:26:11.900 They just pick it up.

01:26:13.040 They're self-taught.

01:26:14.780 And they have a much deeper level of sophistication than we realized.

01:26:20.700 And, again, some of the recent UVA articles say we've really seriously underestimated the verbal abilities of non-speaking persons.

01:26:31.320 We have a natural prejudice that kicks in when somebody cannot answer us in a familiar way.

01:26:39.260 I had somebody here looking into it, you know, not long ago.

01:26:43.360 And we were meeting some people.

01:26:45.420 There is a young woman in a wheelchair whose speech is very difficult.

01:26:51.420 She has a severe cerebral palsy.

01:26:53.280 She's had visions, too.

01:26:55.380 She spells on a device.

01:26:57.220 She's an honors graduate of Arizona State University.

01:27:00.220 She was her graduation speaker.

01:27:01.780 She's an author.

01:27:02.440 And it's funny.

01:27:04.100 And I tell people that in advance.

01:27:06.540 And her name is Brooke Brown.

01:27:08.140 And people will come up and they'll see her.

01:27:10.040 Hi, Brooke.

01:27:10.800 They don't get an answer they can understand.

01:27:13.920 And this is the default.

01:27:16.020 It's so nice to meet you.

01:27:19.740 And after I said to the person, we all did the same thing.

01:27:23.000 So when I hear that, I'll then, you know, in the next sentence say, you know, Brooke, this person is really happy to meet you.

01:27:30.000 I'm so glad you were here.

01:27:31.000 You have books for them.

01:27:31.920 I talk like I'm talking to you because they get that.

01:27:35.380 They want that.

01:27:36.580 This is not a bad on us, like how could we, you know, this is more just there's something in us that triggers.

01:27:44.480 If you talk to a six-month-old, you don't expect to get an answer.

01:27:48.320 You don't talk the same way.

01:27:50.640 Yeah, we talk to the kids as if they did understand because we get that's helping them to understand and develop words and language and all that.

01:28:00.020 Well, it's just a natural response we have.

01:28:05.080 And again, one of the big themes of the book is that we should always assume competence.

01:28:12.460 Speak to everyone you meet like that as if they can understand you.

01:28:16.220 I've met people since.

01:28:17.440 I'm in some place or outside walking as a mom and the kids in a wheelchair.

01:28:22.920 We say hello.

01:28:23.840 We get into a conversation.

01:28:25.560 Can I talk to your daughter for a bit?

01:28:27.820 Sure.

01:28:28.300 And I'll just turn to the, you know, the one in the wheelchair and I'll say, I'm so happy to meet you.

01:28:33.180 I know you're enjoying this beautiful day.

01:28:35.380 It's really a blessing to meet you.

01:28:37.800 You know, I know there's a lot of special things in your life.

01:28:40.880 And sometimes you'll see the reaction on their face like, oh, my goodness, he knows I'm here or something.

01:28:46.240 So that's a really important part of it, how we treat people.

01:28:50.540 I think God's reorganizing our thinking to see people more the way he does.

01:28:57.460 I, you know, all of that makes me really hopeful for the future.

01:28:59.880 I feel like we're turning a corner pretty rapidly, not only in our understanding of this, but in, as some people say, we're in the middle of a revival.

01:29:10.260 And I hope that that is the case.

01:29:12.480 And I think that stories like yours and, you know, sure, there may have been some omission on part of the telepathy tapes, but it kicks the door open.

01:29:22.520 And then look at the conversations that we get to have here.

01:29:24.900 And so these stories do get told.

01:29:26.840 And that is important.

01:29:28.680 And I don't know.

01:29:29.880 I think I'm just hopeful for the future and the direction that this is going in.

01:29:34.640 Can I just add to that?

01:29:36.580 I say amen.

01:29:38.140 I've had people say, oh, no, that with the telepathy tapes is going to be a movie in 2026.

01:29:42.880 And it's going to be all this weird, like, new agey sounding stuff and all.

01:29:48.580 It's here.

01:29:49.300 It's getting people to think about the concepts.

01:29:52.380 Christians are going to want to know, what does this mean?

01:29:54.380 We should be ready to tell them, you know.

01:29:58.400 We accept the parts of it that are, you know, all truth is God's truth.

01:30:03.020 If they're able to see and communicate, let's rejoice in that.

01:30:06.500 But let's just find out more.

01:30:08.600 What is God doing?

01:30:09.760 And I see it as a great opportunity.

01:30:12.700 Yeah.

01:30:13.000 I think that when this first happened, the telepathy tapes, I felt as though the Holy Spirit kind of put it on our radar.

01:30:20.540 There was some nudging to look at it.

01:30:22.340 And sure, in this discussion, there's maybe something you could describe as bitterness when it comes to the way that things were portrayed.

01:30:30.140 But then we get emails from people, which we have.

01:30:33.440 And I can think of a couple people in particular who have children that, you know, suffer from this disposition and who have thanked us for talking about it.

01:30:42.480 And the more we talk about it, the more this information gets out.

01:30:45.280 I'm to the point now where I do have a hard time looking at it in a negative light.

01:30:49.700 Look at the fruit that it's for.

01:30:51.140 Look at the conversations we get to have.

01:30:52.640 Yeah, but it's also our job.

01:30:54.160 So, like, I guess when we first started the show or, like, my gripe with it, I used to go to church, then stopped, and then now we're going again.

01:31:01.540 But my gripe was the lack of dealing with the supernatural or dealing with some of these things.

01:31:08.100 Depending on which church you go to, some people will just tell you to kick rocks when you're asking them the questions that we've asked you that you've gave us really great answers to.

01:31:16.020 And it's our job to have those answers.

01:31:18.760 Otherwise, people will go and they'll get the answers from somebody else.

01:31:23.080 But be kind.

01:31:25.140 You know, every church is imperfect, and some people have answers, and a wince at them and all.

01:31:33.300 Go there and be the light for that.

01:31:35.260 Be the one who helps people understand that.

01:31:37.940 You will never find a perfect church.

01:31:40.660 But, you know, as soon as you do, it won't be perfect because you're in it.

01:31:44.080 That's true.

01:31:45.240 There's an old joke.

01:31:46.080 Can I tell you an old joke?

01:31:48.100 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:48.580 I know we're running tight on time, but a man is rescued from a desert island.

01:31:53.200 And the captain of the ship comes aboard.

01:31:55.940 He says, you're amazing.

01:31:56.980 You were here for years.

01:31:57.820 How did you survive?

01:31:58.820 And he sees three huts in the center of the island.

01:32:01.800 The man says, well, I built three huts.

01:32:04.140 That first hut was my home.

01:32:06.020 I knew I needed shelter from the elements.

01:32:08.780 Wow, amazing.

01:32:09.700 What's the second hut?

01:32:10.940 Second hut's my church.

01:32:12.280 I knew I wouldn't make it unless I was in tune with God and walking with the Lord and trusting.

01:32:18.200 Wow, amazing.

01:32:19.320 What's the third hut?

01:32:20.840 Oh, that's the church I used to belong to.

01:32:23.740 You know, that's actually very funny.

01:32:28.300 That's a great.

01:32:29.060 Yeah.

01:32:29.380 Fair enough.

01:32:30.240 Fair enough.

01:32:31.160 I love that.

01:32:32.020 That's great.

01:32:32.720 Yeah.

01:32:33.040 Yeah.

01:32:33.240 That's it.

01:32:33.760 I'm going to tell that and I'm not going to credit you.

01:32:35.620 I'm not crediting whoever told me.

01:32:39.800 So there you go.

01:32:41.540 Well, look, I want to bring it in for a landing, but we do have one last question that we like

01:32:47.180 to ask our guest and everybody has such a unique perspective because of the different

01:32:50.680 field of study they come from.

01:32:52.840 And so I'm eager to hear your response.

01:32:54.580 Not necessarily, Joe, in this conversation, but your pursuits, everything that you're involved

01:32:59.720 with.

01:33:00.140 And I think I kind of already imagined the answer, but are you having fun?

01:33:06.940 I am having the time of my life.

01:33:10.040 And, you know, we've all heard the difference between joy and happiness.

01:33:16.140 Happiness is transient.

01:33:17.880 It focuses on an event when the event is done.

01:33:21.820 I am having a blast.

01:33:23.860 And part of that, part of the fun comes from a deep joy of letting go of more things.

01:33:32.580 And I find I'm able to trust God in a deeper way.

01:33:37.400 Look, up to the time, you know, a lot of our life, we're driven by all kinds of things and

01:33:42.700 fears and anxieties and pride.

01:33:45.740 And especially, you know, as men, where do we fit in?

01:33:48.380 And how do people see us?

01:33:51.100 And we're worried about those things.

01:33:52.980 There's something really blessed and liberating about meeting people so free of that because

01:34:00.700 of the way that they live and just getting to know them for the sake of knowing them.

01:34:06.740 It's kind of like I look at other stuff and I go, what the heck does that mean?

01:34:10.680 That means nothing.

01:34:11.640 And the process I've been going through with that has been so much fun.

01:34:17.760 I feel like it's almost not right that I'm enjoying it so much.

01:34:23.760 That's a that's a it's good to hear.

01:34:25.840 I will say the common thread.

01:34:27.880 And I very much think that you you find yourself in this position, Joe, is when people are doing

01:34:34.700 what they feel they were meant to do.

01:34:37.880 You know, we spend a lot of time looking for, like, what's our purpose?

01:34:41.140 What does God want us to do?

01:34:42.840 What's God's plans for us?

01:34:44.380 And overwhelmingly, the people that we talk to, I feel like they're they figured that out

01:34:48.360 there.

01:34:48.620 They're on that path.

01:34:49.340 They're talking to people and they're trying to, you know, spread this information.

01:34:52.900 And so I just think that that's like the real commonality is.

01:34:57.740 Yes.

01:34:58.160 Yes.

01:34:58.760 Yeah.

01:34:59.000 Did you see did you see the movie Chariots of Fire?

01:35:02.320 It was the best picture long time back.

01:35:05.900 Who was that by?

01:35:07.880 Um, I think that sounds familiar.

01:35:09.980 I don't know.

01:35:10.360 It's about it's about runners in England and the Olympics and well worth seeing.

01:35:17.440 One's a Christian runner based on a true story.

01:35:21.120 Um, and the other is Jewish and they win gold medals in the Olympics, but their stories and

01:35:27.080 the Christian runner who died in World War Two in a Japanese camp, you know, makes a decision

01:35:32.220 to run the Olympics and his sister's all upset.

01:35:34.620 You should be about serving God and all and there's and they're from Scotland and they're

01:35:39.600 walking in the highlands and he tells her he's going to run the Olympics to glorify God.

01:35:44.100 At one point he takes her by the arms and he looks at her and her name is Jenny and

01:35:48.120 he says, Jenny, God made me fast.

01:35:52.220 And when I run, I feel his pleasure.

01:35:55.240 And I thought, oh man, that's it.

01:35:57.820 When you do what he made you to do, you feel his pleasure.

01:36:03.320 That's, that's the thing.

01:36:04.800 This is what I'm trying to do with my life and whatever talents or whatever thing I think

01:36:09.860 I do good.

01:36:10.560 I'm like, all right, well, how could I use that for God now instead of, uh, sitting on

01:36:15.840 it or doing nothing.

01:36:16.620 And when you do, it feels, it feels really good.

01:36:18.900 It's like you said, it's almost like I'm, uh, like greedy in a sense, like, right.

01:36:23.720 It's like, I did this and I feel great.

01:36:25.360 Yeah.

01:36:25.720 And then you keep doing it and you're like, I feel even better now.

01:36:28.740 And it's just, I guess we should keep doing it though.

01:36:31.600 That's it.

01:36:32.120 Go for it.

01:36:33.220 And because you're from New York, go for it.

01:36:35.380 And if it doesn't work, you can always drag the guy in an alley and pass.

01:36:38.440 Well, no, we've, we've removed, I don't know if you could take the New York out of

01:36:42.640 him, but we did take him out of New York.

01:36:44.860 What part of New York were you from?

01:36:47.560 Uh, Brooklyn.

01:36:48.620 Yeah.

01:36:49.100 I was, I was born in Brooklyn.

01:36:50.740 Okay.

01:36:51.440 Oh yeah.

01:36:51.960 Yeah.

01:36:52.180 Grew up in Coney Island and then Sheepshead Bay and then believe God.

01:36:55.520 Oh yeah.

01:36:56.880 Okay.

01:36:57.240 All right.

01:36:57.740 It explains a lot.

01:36:59.020 It explains a lot.

01:37:00.140 Now I get it.

01:37:01.080 Now it makes sense.

01:37:02.140 All right.

01:37:02.580 Now I get it.

01:37:03.240 Thank you, Joseph.

01:37:03.980 Can you tell again, one more time, tell them where they could, uh,

01:37:08.060 support your, your ministry and find your stuff.

01:37:11.740 The book is Decoding Cody.

01:37:14.100 There's the cover.

01:37:15.420 It's available, of course, anywhere, you know, if you want to go on Amazon or Barnes and

01:37:19.080 Noble, Walmart, they're all covering it.

01:37:22.000 If you, if, if you want to go on hidden gifts, ministry.org, uh, you can get the book there

01:37:28.080 for a donation.

01:37:29.620 Uh, there's a suggested donation, but whatever you can afford.

01:37:32.760 And there were, you know, I'll, we're sending signed copies and every penny that comes from

01:37:40.260 it.

01:37:40.400 Literally every penny is going for the ministry and, and trying to help, uh, special needs

01:37:46.520 people and get this off the ground.

01:37:48.660 So great.

01:37:50.240 Uh, thank you guys for asking about that.

01:37:53.020 Well, thank you for joining us.

01:37:54.480 Thank you for your time.

01:37:55.500 Uh, really, really appreciate it.

01:37:56.940 This is something that's been fascinating to us for a while, and it's great to finally

01:37:59.880 get to talk to somebody who, uh, knows it intimately.

01:38:02.660 And it's a great message to hear.

01:38:04.880 It may have been omitted, but we talked about it here.

01:38:07.360 Been great to be with you.

01:38:08.520 And I didn't get to ask you why or how you came up with Nephilim Death Squad.

01:38:12.800 So maybe another time.

01:38:14.120 Well, we'd love to have you back.

01:38:15.100 I don't want to ask, I don't want to ask you that.

01:38:17.340 Okay.

01:38:18.420 All right.

01:38:18.700 Yeah, we'll, we'll have you back when, uh, maybe with our, uh, our friend, Matt, he's,

01:38:23.420 uh, he's like kind of like a biblical scholar and we could hit something, uh, maybe something

01:38:26.920 real fun if you'll come back.

01:38:28.880 Yeah.

01:38:29.600 I, I'm happy to, I, I, I already have way more information than the book.

01:38:34.780 Like this is happening with people with Down syndrome.

01:38:38.300 There may be multiple hills.

01:38:40.220 Oh, wow.

01:38:41.980 Multiple hills.

01:38:43.140 Burying the lead, Joe.

01:38:44.380 How dare you?

01:38:45.400 I'm scratching the surface.

01:38:47.460 There's more that keeps coming and problem is processing it to the point that I feel

01:38:51.880 comfortable enough talking about it and having a biblical framework.

01:38:56.120 So.

01:38:57.020 Oh, we would love to have you, to have you back to talk about this.

01:39:00.020 We'll do it again for sure, guys.

01:39:01.320 Yeah.

01:39:01.600 Awesome.

01:39:01.980 Thank you, Joe.

01:39:02.600 And guys, thanks for tuning in until next time.

01:39:05.080 Don't forget to obey, submit and comply.

01:39:07.540 We'll see you later.

01:39:17.460 We'll see you later.

Nephilim Death Squad - November 12, 2025

What The Telepathy Tapes Left Out ｜ Pastor Joe Infranco

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript