An unhinged Elizabeth May
Episode Stats
Words per minute
189.11427
Harmful content
Misogyny
17
sentences flagged
Hate speech
16
sentences flagged
Summary
In this week's Off The Record, Andrew Lawton is joined by True North Chief Operations Officer, William McBeth, and our Alberta correspondent, Isaac Lamoureux, to talk about all things halal chicken and KFC.
Transcript
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Yeah, like, I mean, it's almost unbearable in my house heat-wise, so I thought that a
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suit would be a bit too hot, even right now, without the fan on.
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Even with the fan on, I'm barely surviving here.
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And I think you're wearing the same thing you were last time, William, so I have no
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I was going to say it was 35 degrees here in Calgary yesterday, but of course, we are
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in the middle of Scampede, and the best weather for Scampede is hot and sunny.
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That's what you want it to be for the whole 10 days, so I'm not complaining, because this
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Hello and welcome, everyone, to another exciting, or at least I hope exciting, edition of Off
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We cycle through a rotating cast of the True North characters, and we chit-chat about
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the stories we have covered through the week, some of the ones we didn't get to.
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We try to find the lighter side in this turbulent, chaotic, and crazy world as much as we can.
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As I've joked with a couple of people, the worse things are for the country, the better
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I'm Andrew Lawton, with you for the next However Long This Takes, joined by True North
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I don't know, I just call you COO usually, William McBeth, and our Alberta correspondent,
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I guess they don't have to work nine to five jobs, so they can just go whenever they'd
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You're also in Edmonton, so it's not like, it's not like we're the reason, it's not like
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Now, what we did do is force Isaac to turn off his fan before the show began, because it
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So if he's like, just like melting into a puddle by the end of it, that will be why.
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Anyway, I must say, despite how people may make an assumption based on my appearance,
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Certainly, I could not tell you the last time I was at a KFC, but KFC has been in the news
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Yeah, I actually can't tell you the last time I've been to KFC either, but I definitely don't
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plan on going anytime soon, given the recent news, which is that Ontario KFC restaurants,
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sorry, Ontario KFC restaurants are going halal friendly or Muslim friendly with halal chicken
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and the removal of pork products from their menu.
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So all of the restaurants in Ontario, except those in Thunder Bay and in Ottawa, have switched
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to halal chicken and removed pork products like bacon from their menu, except for the
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Do you still get your bacon if the KFC is sharing a roof with a Taco Bell?
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So if you really want your bacon, you're going to have to go to a shared location.
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And when we were discussing this on Monday, when we weren't even sure if it were true
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or not, I thought for sure that it would be the case that it was just one radical owner
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But all across the province, I mean, this is very surprising for me, especially considering
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I like to think that Western culture sees bacon as one of their favorite foods, whereas when
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I was looking at the data, the Muslim population in Ontario is about five to six percent.
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So you're really alienating a lot more people than you're catering to, I'd say.
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Yeah, and also I would say everyone's focusing on the Ontario bit, but if you can put that
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letter back up, this is a letter that KFC sent out to community leaders.
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So I believe it was sent out to like the heads of various Muslim organizations and mosques
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It says this will be followed by the rest of Canada by year end.
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So by the end of the year, they'll have taken this Ontario project and made it national.
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So this is causing a bit of a moral panic of sorts on Twitter.
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You've got some people that are saying, you know, boycott KFC.
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I actually am of the mindset that I don't really care.
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One of my favorite go to things if I am out in the world is shawarma and shawarma restaurants
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I do think that whenever a company makes a decision like this, you always have to wonder
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why is it because they're looking at a decision that's being made for commercial reasons
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or is it that they're doing something to try to pander?
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And apparently, I didn't realize this until I was looking into this story.
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Almost all the chicken chains in Canada are halal, like Mary Brown's is halal, Popeye's
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I'm more intrigued by the removal of bacon because it's one thing to add something to the
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menu that doesn't really change anything for anyone else.
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Like you're not, you don't become a Muslim when you have halal chicken, but taking away something
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the consumers wanted, that to me is a bit more, that to me, I find a bit more interesting
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Yeah, I was thinking about the bacon thing and I don't recall the last time I was at
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a KFC and I'm not sure if anything they sell has bacon on it, but then I thought-
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They said they were removing pork from the menu, so it must have been on the menu in some
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I guess now I was thinking though, that if you think about big fast food chains like
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McDonald's or Burger King or even Subway and I mean, Starbucks has breakfast sandwiches.
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All of these places have bacon and it can't be that Muslim people don't go to any of those
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Like I can't imagine that that precludes people from going there and ordering, like if you're
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at McDonald's, I don't know, the Filet-O-Fish, which probably has very little bacon on it
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So that led me to think this was more about virtue signaling than it was about specifically
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addressing the religious dietary requirements of a segment of the Canadian population.
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And virtue signaling, of course, is something that companies love to do without always thinking
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It signals good things, but then what other signal does it send maybe to the rest of Canada?
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Yeah, and when it comes to like kosher food and kosher restaurants, some Orthodox Jews
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do have very strict requirements on the facilities and even on the plates, like they can't even
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eat off of a plate that at one point had non-kosher meat or meat and dairy mixed or something
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And again, that's just like Orthodox Jews.
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So I don't even think there is a facility rule where if bacon was served on something else, they can't have even the
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But what was the reaction like to this that you saw, Isaac?
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Yeah, well, firstly, I was actually looking at the stock price.
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This is from Yum Food or Yum Brands, which is the parent company of KFC.
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And I was like, oh, maybe because obviously Legacy Media has picked up this story now.
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And to my surprise, it hasn't really, although it did drop over the last month, but not in relation
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to this news from what I can tell just based on the timeline there.
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But of course, people on X are always more critical than any other public sphere.
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So yeah, there was definitely some backlash on X, but it hasn't really reflected their stock price.
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So I don't know that that's obviously what they're going to care about most as a company in regard
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So if their stock hasn't taken a hit, I don't think they're going to see a fault in their action
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Yeah, and it's also like one of these things that seems very online.
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Like the average consumer would have no idea going into a KFC on one day that, oh, this
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I don't know if the restaurants are now like in some areas putting up big signs that say,
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Like I don't know how much attention they're drawing to it.
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What I found interesting and one of the reasons I found this to be suspect originally, because
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what happened was this letter that we put up on the screen earlier, we're circulating
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So anytime you see something that you're like, okay, why now?
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And I had wondered if it was photoshopped or if it was faked or something like that.
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So the fact that it's taken this long means that KFC, it seemed like in May when they
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made this change, was really just quietly announcing it to members of the Muslim community.
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They weren't trying to draw a lot of attention to it.
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And when we wrote the story, I don't even think KFC responded.
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No, from what I read in the story, it said that they didn't.
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So again, like at the end of the day, who cares?
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But I'm always just so skeptical of any corporate decisions now, that they're not rooted in anything
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And the great example I give about that is that I live not too far from General Dynamics
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Land Systems, which in my city of London, Ontario, is known for exporting armored vehicles
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So it's amusing when you drive by and you see like the trans-friendly pride flag up in
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front of the facility manufacturing Saudi tanks.
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And you're like, well, why don't you just put one of those on every one to Saudi Arabia?
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Why don't you just slap that on the vehicles there?
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Oh, because you don't actually believe this when it's about your business that you're pandering
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And I had to laugh that if I guess if KFC really wanted to drive home the point, every
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location would have a cutout of the Prophet Muhammad eating a chicken sandwich.
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Or something, which I doubt is what they're going to do.
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I don't think we're going to see that in KFC time soon.
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But yeah, every time you see a company try to virtue signal or put out something that
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seems to be more about style than substance, you have to wonder if, is there an ulterior
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motive or is this simply a business decision as usual and everybody should go about their
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I mean, personally, I'm waiting for Chick-fil-A to open up here again in Calgary and solves
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And the problem is it's like clean on the other end of town.
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So I've never actually been to it, although there was a time I would have killed for it.
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Probably I'm not going to do the homework on it either, if I'm honest.
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So one thing I will say, when you mentioned earlier, William, other restaurants that have
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bacon and pork, the thing that's interesting, I've actually been to the Middle East.
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I've been to, well, Egypt is not Middle East, but it's a Muslim country.
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And you don't realize how important pork is until you go to a breakfast buffet in a Muslim
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country and you realize that pork sausages are better than any other sausages and pork
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Like they all have the alternatives, but they really, really pale in comparison to the real
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No matter what the soy lobby tells you, soy bacon is not bacon.
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I mean, turkey bacon, which is better than soy bacon, is still not actual bacon.
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If you gave me a turkey bacon, let's say, and said it was sausage or something, I'd be less
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disappointed because once you hear the word bacon, you know, you think of what bacon is,
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the taste, the smell, everything that makes it so wonderful.
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And then you taste turkey bacon, for example, and it's like, oh, you're just going to be disappointed
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Well, we can all agree on the importance of bacon.
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Anyway, let's move to the next topic, which I've very much forgotten.
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So excuse me while I desperately try to find where we are in our rundown here.
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William, speaking of the Middle East, what has Canada been exporting there?
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Well, you know, if you watch international news, you usually see the prime minister embarrassing
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He's, I believe, down in the United States right now at a NATO summit pledging that Canada
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will finally meet its 2% GDP goal, although he's providing precious few details on how that
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But one area where apparently Canada is just thundering forward and leading the way is in
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According to our representative in Lebanon, she attended a conference and she was proud
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to say that good news, people of Lebanon, Canada's intersectional feminist approach to foreign
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Now, let's roll the clip before we unpack this further.
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As for Canada, it has been implementing a feminist foreign policy since 2016.
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Canada's feminist foreign policy seeks to be inclusive, intersectional, transformative, and
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It takes into account the diverse experiences of women, men, and non-binary people facing multiple
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and intersecting forms of discrimination and exclusion, like income, race, religion, sexual
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orientation, gender expression, language, ability, and age.
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This allows us to be more responsive to systemic inequalities, specific needs and circumstances,
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Our feminist foreign policy is also cross-cutting.
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It applies across all of our international efforts, including diplomacy, trade, security, development,
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That was Sylvie Michaud, who is a diplomat at the Embassy for Canada in Lebanon, speaking in
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Beirut at the Asfari Institute for Civil Society and Citizenship.
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I'm a little bit, just, our colleague Cosman Georgia wrote about this, and he's noted that
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perhaps the intersectional feminist foreign policy has not necessarily been well-received
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in Lebanon, which has a child marriage and basically takes a very anti-woman view on anything
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Yeah, no, what came to mind actually was I saw a clip earlier of Trudeau speaking at the
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NATO summit where they questioned him on the GDP spending, and he said Canada was punching
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above its weight class, which obviously isn't true in regard to defense spending.
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We have no plan to get to 2% of our GDP requirement as required by NATO allies.
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But where Canada might be punching above its weight class actually is foreign investments
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in anything to do with gender diversity, any DEI terms that come to mind, like intersectional
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So, I mean, I don't know, I kind of laughed even watching this, I was like, I don't really
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And so it's like the flags on the GDLS vehicles, you know, you can send them there, but probably
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William, you worked for the Harper government previously, and that was a time when Canadian
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foreign policy looked vastly different than it does now.
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I mean, would you ever have imagined there that even under a liberal government, this
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would be the way that we're portraying ourselves abroad?
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Yeah, I mean, you know, this isn't to say, by the way, that advancing equality and human
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The problem is the woke speech that so many of our diplomats now seem to employ at the behest
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of our current government does tend to make countries like, say, example, Lebanon,
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who is possibly going to go to war with Israel at some point in the near future, possibly it
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seems out of step with the everyday concerns of people who are living in that country, that
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maybe focusing on intersectional feminism is a luxury compared to, say, fundamental human
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rights, the abolishment of religious courts, which tend to persecute minorities, women, and
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people of different sexual orientations, or the fact that large swaths of the country
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still don't have the infrastructure and quality of life that you would expect.
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So, you know, when we show up in these places and preach about woke nonsense, it diminishes
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And certainly, say what you will, about Prime Minister Harper, he was taken far more seriously
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and treated with far more respect than the current incumbent is right now.
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I think there's something to the idea of leading by example rather than preaching.
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And, you know, one of the things that the Stephen Harper government did was ensure there
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was a path for gay people who were being persecuted in their home countries.
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This was something they've done and the liberals have continued.
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And showing that you respect gay rights, that projects a positive image to the world.
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The problem when you go into countries that have vastly different worldviews and you start
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telling them how they're supposed to do things, it just doesn't work.
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And I mean, Saudi Arabia is an interesting example of it.
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I saw this week there's a Nike ad that has been made that's in Saudi Arabia that is all
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It shows, you know, younger females that aren't wearing hijabs, that are doing sports, that
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And again, the idea that an ad like that in Saudi Arabia, which again, a country that I will
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not say is at all a bastion of liberalism for women's rights or any other minority rights,
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but that that ad could be made there would have been unheard of.
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And that's, I think, what the Canadian government is doing on a lot of these things.
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Yeah, that's another thing that came to mind here was, I mean, why would Lebanon listen to
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You know, we can tell them, oh, you have to do this.
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But as you alluded to, William, if Trudeau and Canada as a whole don't really have international
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That's that's something people always brought up about former President Donald Trump was
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like he said things, sure, but he he also commanded leaders his respect.
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And another thing that I wanted to mention was.
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Call me a nationalist, I guess, but I just think of all the issues happening here in Canada
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and maybe maybe I don't agree with investing hundreds of millions and billions of dollars
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abroad when we have so many problems to fix in our own country.
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I mean, the entire foreign aid discussion is one that I think desperately needs a reset,
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because I've seen little to no evidence that the Canadian approach to foreign aid even works
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I mean, the problem is that the countries that need the help the most are countries that typically
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have rampant corruption and money ends up just in the pockets of dictators far more than
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Yeah, no, it's a sad reality that so much of foreign aid, well intentioned foreign aid is
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simply going to make thugs and criminals wealthy in these countries that desperately need help.
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But it requires, I think, some really new thinking and using the new technology that we have available
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You know, there are examples of where governments are bypassing NGOs and governments entirely
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and simply loading money onto the cell phones of individual people living in very desperate
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circumstances because it's the only way that they can get around the pickpocketing that happens
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You know, money we spend on foreign aid is money we can't spend on Canadian health care,
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is money we can't spend on our armed forces, is money we can't spend on any other of the
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So, you know, when you see Canadian diplomats traveling the world and talking about things
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like intersectional feminism, it does make you wonder, really, how much bang for our bucks
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we're getting on this dog and pony show that we call foreign affairs.
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What we really need when it comes to projecting an image of Canada to the world is the austere
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I've got another grandbaby coming at the end of October and I feel very, very committed
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Baby boomers have f***ed this planet and we can't walk away and leave it for our kids to
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And I'm sorry I just used the F word out loud, but I think kids understand what I'm saying.
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I'm a very, I'm a 70 year old, angry, cranky version of Glitta Thunberg.
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I feel like you could Photoshop in like a giant overflowing wine glass there in the shot
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and it would just, it would be probably even more believable.
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Now, this is a woman who in the past, I would remind you all, has kind of become the civility
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This was her taking aim at Michelle Rempel Garner back when she was just Michelle Rempel for
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using a different F word in the parliamentary precinct.
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Why does this government treat Alberta like a fart in the room that nobody wants to talk
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That is where my constituents have been at with this government for over a year.
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I interrupt my friend in her speech, but I heard her say a word that I know is distinctly
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unparliamentary and I think she may want to withdraw it.
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I just gave an impassioned speech about supporting Alberta jobs.
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And that's what the leader of a political party stands up and has to say.
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Decorum is important and respect is important to this place.
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I remind those who are now heckling me that you are breaking the rules of this place when
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Okay, just, just again, let's go back to the other Elizabeth May clip, Elizabeth May this
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Baby boomers have f***ed this planet and we can't walk away and leave it for our kids to
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I, I'm not one of these profanity pearl clutchers.
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I, I keep profanity out of my show and we generally keep it out of True North.
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If you want to get Elizabeth May uncensored, you can, you know, do that on Twitter.
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Um, so I, again, I'm not, so I don't really care, but it's a little rich for her to, you
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know, take aim at Michelle Rempel using a four letter F word for flatulence while dropping
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Again, I, am I, am I reading, am I paying too much attention to Elizabeth May, Isaac?
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And look, a lot of the chatter online, let's say has, has, has, uh, alleged, I guess that
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And I don't want, I don't want to speak to that because I don't know whether she was or
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not, but I am slightly, I will say concerned about Elizabeth May.
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Now we've seen very odd things most recently from when she had a completely different interpretation
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of the, uh, NSOP report than Jagmeet Singh did.
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Cause of course he said, he said there were treacherous MPs and she said, oh no, there's
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Uh, the media blew it out of proportion, which are two very, very, very different things to
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So I, I'm, I'm, I'm very concerned, uh, about Elizabeth May.
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Uh, also her co-leader, uh, or whatever, Jonathan Pedneau just resigned.
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And he said it was family issues, but of course there could be something deeper to that story
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And Elizabeth May is kind of all over the place.
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She also, uh, just said that it was quote obvious that it was time for Justin Trudeau
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to step down, which I, I wouldn't say I disagree with, but I mean, she's really putting herself
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out there more than we may have been used to in the past.
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She's basically made herself out to be the permanent leader of the green party.
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There was that brief break from her with Anna May Paul, who was probably one of the
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And now we're like right back into Elizabeth May being just the, the permanent, the permanent
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I enjoy an Elizabeth May press conference because they're rarely dull.
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And she opens her mouth and starts sharing her things.
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Like she played the welcome back Cotter theme song and Lisa Raid had to pull her off stage.
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Was that the parliamentary press gallery dinner?
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You're talking about Omar Cotter and called him like that.
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You know, in, um, in classical times, we would refer to politicians who, uh, maybe had a glass
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or too much to drink as tired and emotional, looking tired and emotional.
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But, uh, just on the whole, um, use of foul language, perhaps Elizabeth May was more upset
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about the word fart, because of course that involves the release of greenhouse gas emissions,
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So maybe that's what drove her to the double standard.
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As soon as you started that sentence, I'm like, is he going, is he, yeah, he's going there.
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She's offended by methane, not, uh, not profanity.
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Uh, it's a, you know, it's a big part of the greenhouse gas cocktail.
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But I think methane contributes more to parliamentary decorum than anything Elizabeth, that's come
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Uh, quite possibly, but I'd say, you know, at least she isn't dull.
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At least we are getting just another boring talking point filled speech.
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The, the Elizabeth May, uh, thing on Omar Cotter, it was 2015.
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It was during the parliamentary press gallery dinner and she used the F word there too.
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She said, Omar Cotter had more class than the whole effing cabinet.
00:26:21.940
So it really, and so, and this was before she tone policed Michelle Rempel, uh, now Michelle
00:26:35.300
Uh, I keep, I keep going away from the screen that has the topics on it.
00:26:39.780
This is, uh, speaking of emissions, uh, some, uh, one of our favorite things to talk about
00:26:46.800
And, uh, and how to get yourself a government travel agent, because I can tell you, I'm pretty
00:26:52.080
jealous about where some of these people get to jet off with in this case are, um, and believe
00:26:57.600
it or not, we have one, our climate change ambassador who's been on the job for just about
00:27:02.560
two years, spending a quarter of a million dollars on travel expenses, which in, you got
00:27:09.740
to admit in two years, that's an, um, pretty impressive level of spending.
00:27:13.520
You have to, I think you really have to quite work at spending that much money in such a
00:27:18.120
But of course, what so infuriates ordinary Canadians like us, you know, what, what it was
00:27:23.860
just a few weeks ago where Mark, um, Holland chastised anybody who was thinking of taking
00:27:34.400
And then meanwhile, you've got the ambassador for climate change, crisscrossing the country
00:27:40.100
on flights and staying in these very expensive hotels and achieving no one knows exactly what
00:27:46.620
certainly not a reduction in our greenhouse gas emissions.
00:27:49.440
I would imagine hers are vastly higher than the average Canadian.
00:27:53.660
So, uh, yeah, just another example of climate hypocrisy, uh, a government that says, do as I
00:28:03.620
And I remember John Kerry was the one criticised in the U S cause he's their climate envoy and
00:28:08.720
he was taking private jets and he was asked about this at one point and he very glibly
00:28:15.120
And I had actually asked John Kerry about that when I saw him in Davos, where he is a bit
00:28:21.500
And it's the same sort of glibness you get from these people because they believe that
00:28:27.460
So they need to fly around the world because they have a really, really important job to
00:28:32.000
The rest of us, plebs, no, no, no, we don't get to.
0.99
00:28:35.400
This is a nice, uh, transition, I suppose, considering we just went from seeing the hypocrisy of Elizabeth
00:28:40.860
May now to the hypocrisy of these high flying elites, let's call them.
00:28:45.460
And we've seen this with many Canadian ministers like Guibo, Trudeau, criticizing, uh, normal
00:28:52.280
Canadians for, I mean, simply trying to live their everyday life as they fly their private
0.51
00:28:57.980
jets around the country, uh, on a daily basis, what it seems like.
00:29:01.880
So I don't know what it would take for this hypocrisy to end, but you know, it's, it just,
00:29:07.040
it's interesting to me whenever these ministers, uh, let's say propose, uh, some sort of guideline
00:29:14.680
for, I don't know, carbon emissions, let's say, uh, uh, a carbon footprint, a personal
00:29:20.600
carbon footprint, let's say it's like, well, well, could you live within that?
00:29:23.640
I, I highly doubt that the answer would be yes.
00:29:28.140
And I, I kind of take the view, I mean, France, for example, uh, within the last year, I think
00:29:33.240
it was banned domestic air travel and, you know, it seemed ridiculous on the surface.
00:29:37.880
And then you think, okay, well, at least in France, you have a way to get around quite
00:29:41.520
They've got a rail system that's quite good, but a lot of the eco radicals would not
00:29:46.200
hesitate to push something like that in Canada as well.
00:29:49.400
And, you know, David Suzuki famously would fly all around the world, uh, with a huge carbon
00:29:53.900
footprint, I think always in business class telling Canadians that, oh, no one should
00:29:58.120
be able to, you know, politicians who don't act on climate change should be put in jail.
00:30:04.040
Your carbon footprint is better, uh, is, is higher than the average Canadian that you're
00:30:12.200
Yeah, I absolutely think it's the hypocrisy that's, that turns so many Canadians off the
00:30:19.420
You know, we talked about how preachy this government's been in foreign affairs and, and on other
00:30:23.420
things, but that's one of the things the government likes to do most is to preach.
00:30:26.360
It likes to say, you know, you, dear Canadian are not living up to our, our vast and high
0.98
00:30:39.860
I did read the article, but, uh, I want to make sure I get this right.
00:30:43.520
Did it say she took a flight from Ottawa to Toronto and it cost $10,000?
00:30:51.060
Now I apologize if I read that part wrong, but, uh, part of me wonders what part of the
00:30:56.920
world could you even fly to that's going to cost $10,000?
00:31:00.520
Like you can get from Toronto to Sydney, Australia, which I would argue is pretty well the most,
00:31:06.400
the furthest, uh, uh, you could go, uh, from Canada.
00:31:09.940
And, uh, I, I think that even wouldn't cost you.
00:31:12.920
No, I think it was the, the conference attendance, uh, cost that I think.
00:31:18.620
But I think she was putting on a little thing still, still quite insane.
00:31:21.500
And by the way, why didn't she take the train from Ottawa to Toronto?
00:31:23.900
That's one where you have a lower carbon alternative.
00:31:26.200
And, you know, why doesn't she look for some cheaper options when staying in hotels or when
0.97
00:31:31.460
You know, oftentimes if I, you know, as a true North employees can attest when they submit
00:31:36.480
proposals for travel, my first reaction is often to see if there's a cheaper way of being
00:31:44.860
Can we put you in a nearby town as opposed to right next to where the event is happening?
00:31:52.440
That is dangerous for, uh, for having a deal with, uh, my cost.
00:31:55.940
But I was, again, I was being far more cost efficient than Mark Carney and our climate ambassador
00:32:01.920
But it's almost like they purposely choose the most expensive option whenever they travel.
00:32:06.880
And that really grates on Canadians who are having to be so careful with how they spend
00:32:13.320
You know, I don't think a lot of people object to the fact that sometimes our politicians and
00:32:17.540
government people are going to have to travel for their work.
00:32:20.160
You know, we're not going to ask Justin Trudeau to zoom in to the NATO meeting.
00:32:24.420
We think maybe there's value in him being there.
00:32:26.320
But do we absolutely have to choose the single most expensive way of getting politicians from
00:32:30.420
point A to point B, having them stay in the nicest hotels?
00:32:33.080
Uh, I think that's what really bugs Canadians when they see their hard earned tax dollars
00:32:37.500
being just squandered on luxury for politicians and the elite.
00:32:42.900
There was one time, I think it was in Washington DC, actually, where I was booking a hotel room
00:32:47.400
and it was, you could choose the rate and it was, you know, the AAA member, CAA member rate,
00:32:55.900
And I recall, I looked at the government rate and just cause I was going through them and
00:33:02.200
Now it might've just been a fluke, but it might not have been because, you know, you
00:33:05.960
have cities where they know that governments are going to come in that don't care about
00:33:10.460
the price of things and they'll just get mad, mad cash from governments.
00:33:17.260
These people are not price shopping and why would they?
00:33:20.060
And so there was the climate hypocrisy angle and there's also just the government waste angle
00:33:28.100
We also don't trust media, but you have government and media getting into bed together.
00:33:36.200
So this comes from a new poll, which was conducted by public square research, and they were trying
00:33:41.660
to gauge the public's trust in different types of Canadian news media.
00:33:46.400
And then also the views on, um, media that received government subsidies.
00:33:52.060
So how, how do Canadians feel about government funded media versus obviously media like true
00:33:59.060
And interestingly, yes, 70% of Canadians were not supportive of government subsidies for
00:34:07.440
So private news organization would be like the global mail, Toronto star, Toronto sun, national
00:34:12.400
Well, yeah, only 4% of Canadians said they were very supportive of this while it was 26%
00:34:20.440
Seven in 10 Canadians, either not very supportive or not supportive at all.
00:34:24.740
Well, it's just insane that no one sees this because, you know, we trust journalists to hold
00:34:31.380
So if government is the lifeline for journalists and government is the lifeline for journalism,
00:34:36.280
how are you at all going to expect it to be doing what you needed to do?
00:34:40.420
So, yeah, I mean, the trust issues in media are outweighing just this aspect of it, but
00:34:46.940
it certainly is going to, is only going to exacerbate the problem.
00:34:51.900
And some journalists have criticized it because they see this, but many have just demanded more
00:34:58.440
I mean, every journalist swears up and down that the fact that some or even most of their
00:35:03.900
salary that is being paid for by the government has no impact on how they choose to, uh, to
00:35:11.320
But the fact is, is that taken as a whole, if you look at the legacy media, they often
00:35:17.820
obsess about the, the pet issues of this current government.
00:35:22.520
You know, how many stories in a typical edition of the Globe and Mail talk about climate change
00:35:27.840
or talk about, you know, some example of, uh, of, uh, of, uh, uh, someone who's dealing
00:35:34.060
with a gender issue and, and isn't it terrible that they couldn't transition at three and a
00:35:42.480
And if you, and these are not issues that Canadians want to endlessly read about.
00:35:52.140
They're concerned about, you know, the fact that, uh, they can't pay their bills every
00:35:59.660
And yet legacy media doesn't pay them nearly as much attention as they should.
00:36:02.780
I would say one of the reasons why True North has been so successful is we've actually looked
00:36:08.200
at what ordinary Canadians from one end of the country to the other are concerned about.
00:36:13.100
And we tried to make that the central focus of our news and reporting.
00:36:17.200
And as a result, I think Canadians in increasing numbers are tuning into us as they tune out
00:36:26.560
So if that trend continues, I think you are going to see the legacy media either becoming,
00:36:32.140
you know, solely dependent on government funding to stay in power, or we will simply see the
00:36:44.800
The, the, the study brought up, which was that it said that most Canadians were completely
00:36:49.220
unaware on how much funding these legacy media journalists were receiving.
00:36:54.080
They estimated that there was up to 50% subsidy on those journalists salaries of up to 85,000
00:37:00.120
And then just speaking quickly on, on trust and legacy media, they, they cited a 2023 study
00:37:05.380
in this research that showed that the decline in legacy media was 50 or sorry, the trust
00:37:10.480
of legacy media was 55% in 2016, declining to 40% in 2023, which Trudeau was speaking on
00:37:17.800
an Alberta talk show in February, where he said that quote, conspiracy theorists and social
00:37:23.420
media drivers were the ones undermining mainstream media to prevent people from essentially believing
00:37:29.900
a common truth, which is why the legacy media was failing.
00:37:32.440
However, the recent polling showed that only 12%, 12% of Canadians felt that they were getting
00:37:42.980
And then, uh, another 20% said that they believed news coverage in Canada was fair and transparent.
00:37:50.920
And you know, the one thing that I've talked about this on my own show, anytime the institutions
00:37:55.160
talk about trust and the trust deficit, they always point the blame at everyone else.
00:38:00.960
Oh, it's because of disinformation and we don't trust the government.
00:38:04.800
It's like, no, it's because you are morons a lot of the time.
00:38:09.940
Or you covered something with such a biased slant or ignored such an incredible part of
00:38:16.160
it that, you know, reasonable people watching it simply say that is a lousy, lousy job you've
00:38:23.880
Um, and if you're lying to us about this, what else are you, are you lying to us?
00:38:30.340
And I've always been, I guess, prideful in the work that True North puts out because
00:38:34.980
obviously I'm very skeptical when I, when I read anything legacy media, okay, what in
00:38:40.040
here is actually true because I often find faults in their work, whether that's intentional
00:38:44.340
But even in, in other independent medias, when I'm reading their stories, I often find
00:38:49.420
So I like to think that, that we, we produce, uh, uh, uh, stories that generally contain
00:38:56.540
very little, uh, errors, uh, in comparison to, to, to the rest of the industry.
00:39:04.440
And one point, and I mean, I'm the managing editor of True North, so I I've insisted on
00:39:08.680
this, but I think a lot of our team does it anyway, is primary sources.
00:39:12.780
Like don't just report on someone else's report on a report, find the report itself, find the
00:39:20.140
I mean, I actually, Isaac is really good at that because Isaac loves reading the report
00:39:23.100
and then you'll end up with like, oh, sorry, I am late because I have to write, you
00:39:29.120
And I was like, well, I technically asked you to, so I can't really complain, but, uh,
00:39:32.200
but it's so key because oftentimes, especially with academic studies, like I used to do this
00:39:35.600
all the time on my old radio show, you'd get like a news story about an academic study that
00:39:41.620
And then you're just like looking at the study and you're like, but it doesn't, doesn't
00:39:46.980
And it's, so you've got like a journalist that either is putting sensationalism first or
00:39:51.220
a journalist that doesn't understand what they're writing about, but give your primary
00:39:55.200
And the one thing also that we're good at in True North is linking to the primary source.
00:39:58.560
Like we don't want to be information gatekeepers.
00:40:01.160
We want you to have access to the same thing we did.
00:40:03.880
A lot of media will reference something, but not actually direct you to the original.
00:40:09.200
They'll say, oh, in these documents we've obtained, but they don't show the documents.
00:40:12.520
Whereas we embed them because yeah, we want you to check our work that keeps us accountable.
00:40:16.580
So my favorite example on this is there's a claim that is recited ad nauseum by legacy
00:40:23.560
And it's that there are 300 far right hate groups or white nationalist groups active in
00:40:32.380
Now, when we've dug into that, we know that it comes from a single professor at one university
00:40:44.260
And it's not a slight against them, but it's not Harvard or something.
00:40:47.780
I would, well, I'm not convinced that Harvard is wrong.
00:40:54.000
And this person, despite multiple requests, has never released their work.
00:40:59.140
They have never released the methodology on how this list was put together.
00:41:02.040
When we pushed on it, the university turned down our ATIPs, turned down our requests.
00:41:07.620
And yet, if you read any news story that the legacy media publishes about quote-unquote
00:41:13.460
hate groups, you will see that 300 hate group number quoted as if it is a stone-cold fact.
00:41:21.820
As near as we can tell, it's something that one professor may or may not have just made
00:41:25.840
up one day because she absolutely refuses to publish anything about it that supports it.
00:41:33.900
For all we know, it's, you know, she was going by Facebook groups or something.
00:41:37.700
You know, there's a Facebook group that posted something she didn't like.
00:41:39.780
So, oh, let's put it up on the list of 300 anyway.
00:41:42.600
So, Barbara Perry, it's not too late to show your work.
00:41:47.720
You should be happy as a researcher drawing more attention to your work, unless that is
00:41:56.240
My thanks to Isaac Lamoureux and William Macbeth for coming on the show.
00:41:59.480
As always, and all of you for tuning in, we'll talk to you next week.
00:42:11.420
And Cosman's been fighting over that Barbara Perry list for like two years now or something,
00:42:17.060
I think it's a personal sort of campaign for him now.
00:42:21.180
It's like before the Ontario Privacy Commissioner now.
00:42:24.580
When Cosman A-tipped it, the university came back and basically said, oh, it's research
00:42:32.740
Except it's been research in progress for years and years.
00:42:36.700
And she's still releasing the claim, which suggests that that part's not in progress.
00:42:40.880
She's still making this claim without a shred of evidence.
00:42:45.100
And as a result, you know, I think if you read any of those legacy media stories, they
00:42:51.440
None of them are saying, oh, and by the way, this is just this one person's thing from a
00:42:56.280
report she won't produce from a list she didn't cite, how she compiled.
00:43:01.520
Like, you know, it's just infuriating for those of us who actually like to click on those
00:43:06.420
links and resource documents to try and figure out what the real story is.