Off the Record - The Tariff War Begins

00:00:00.000 Well, the good news is it's not minus 30-something outside.

00:00:05.780 Yeah, no, I'm enjoying the great weather in Ontario.

00:00:09.060 We've been getting some positive six.

00:00:11.360 How are you guys in Alberta still doing?

00:00:13.680 Are you guys still getting the negative 40-type temperatures out there?

00:00:19.400 It's funny, Noah.

00:00:20.820 It was like zero degrees yesterday, and it just felt so warm, like unbearably warm.

00:00:24.540 And I was like, man, it's really short weather.

00:00:26.040 Unbearably warm.

00:00:26.840 I've never heard someone say that.

00:00:28.080 Man, I bet you these people from not Edmonton are probably like,

00:00:32.220 this guy's crazy, trying to wear shorts and zero degrees,

00:00:34.380 but I was ready to go to the beach pretty much.

00:00:36.240 Yeah, I was up there for the –

00:00:37.740 I was up there for the –

00:00:39.200 Ken, confirm.

00:00:40.360 He's totally telling the truth, Noah.

00:00:41.660 I was up in Edmonton for the budget, the Alberta budget.

00:00:45.080 Income tax good, deficit bad.

00:00:47.260 That's my quick take.

00:00:48.380 But it was so warm, like I literally saw dudes in shorts and like flip-flops,

00:00:52.620 and it was like plus six.

00:00:54.760 So definitely a very Canadian moment.

00:00:57.300 I'm glad.

00:00:57.820 I think spring is eventually coming, though, but I'll take it.

00:01:00.060 All right, guys, let's get this thing started.

00:01:05.360 All right, so lots to do on the show here.

00:01:07.760 Welcome to Off the Record on True North.

00:01:09.980 I'm Chris Sims.

00:01:10.800 I'm the Alberta Director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

00:01:13.900 I'm joined by two of my dear friends, Noah and Isaac.

00:01:17.100 Guys, we've got so much to talk about here.

00:01:19.880 Let's not ignore the big American elephant in the room. 0.83

00:01:23.440 And that's, of course, what's happening with tariffs that are going on right now.

00:01:28.340 Do you mind if I nerd out for a second and just explain tariffs?

00:01:32.780 Okay.

00:01:33.200 Go ahead.

00:01:33.660 Please forgive me.

00:01:34.980 I hang out way too much with Franco Terrazzano.

00:01:36.980 Okay.

00:01:37.400 So what's happening is the United States have imposed tariffs on Canadian goods.

00:01:42.880 So stuff we send across the border to arrive on American store shelves from Canada will cost Americans more money.

00:01:53.440 Okay.

00:01:53.840 That is oversimplifying.

00:01:55.260 I know that there is especially auto parts and stuff that go back and forth and it gets really crazy.

00:01:59.080 But let's just say for argument's sake that it's apples coming from the Okanagan into Washington state.

00:02:06.220 Those would, if they were in season, those would have a Canadian tariff on them now on the shelf in American stores.

00:02:12.580 Unfortunately, what we're now doing here in Canada is retaliatory tariffs.

00:02:19.020 So this means that American stuff coming across the border that is on our shelves in Canada is going to cost Canadians more.

00:02:28.940 So we have the data to back this up.

00:02:31.320 I know I understand the emotion.

00:02:33.620 Okay.

00:02:34.100 Somebody gets up in your grill, pushes you, punches you in the face.

00:02:37.460 You want to punch them back.

00:02:38.600 But in this case, with retaliatory tariffs as Canadians, this is like someone who's bigger than and stronger than you challenging you to the fight.

00:02:48.200 And you say, wait a minute, wait a minute.

00:02:50.120 And you tie your own shoelaces together and then punch yourself in the face first.

00:02:54.900 That's what we're doing, unfortunately, with these retaliatory tariffs.

00:02:58.700 Guys, go ahead.

00:02:59.660 Take it away.

00:03:00.160 Am I off base here?

00:03:01.180 Am I overreacting?

00:03:02.820 No, not at all.

00:03:03.780 I mean, tariffs at the end of the day is a policy that is going to increase inflation.

00:03:08.980 It's going to lower your productivity.

00:03:10.980 And overall, it's going to lower your GDP.

00:03:13.340 And that is going to happen in Canada and the United States.

00:03:16.220 You know, the tariffs aren't going to have necessarily an extraordinary effect on the American economy.

00:03:22.300 But they're also imposing tariffs on China.

00:03:24.580 And they're imposing tariffs on Mexico.

00:03:26.020 And they're imposing tariffs on the EU.

00:03:28.640 So that cumulative effect is going to have a quite substantial effect on the American economy.

00:03:34.920 But here in Canada, we have to ensure that we do everything we can in our power to ensure that our productivity is not negatively affected, our inflation doesn't rise, and our GDP has been going down on a per capita basis lately.

00:03:50.600 But, you know, make sure it doesn't decline even further.

00:03:53.960 And imposing counter tariffs are going to exacerbate that effect.

00:03:58.580 And the United States seems to have imposed a policy whereby if you impose tariffs on them, they automatically increase tariffs.

00:04:05.960 So that could increase the already 25% tariffs that the United States has imposed on us and, you know, 10% on energy products.

00:04:14.520 And so when these tariffs are just mounting and mounting, how are Canadian workers going to be able to feel secure that they're going to have a job in the next week, the next month, the next year?

00:04:26.260 How are Canadians going to be able to go to the grocery store and be able to, you know, buy some oranges from Florida or be able to buy some wheat products that was potentially, you know, taking some wheat from Canada and some oats from the States?

00:04:40.420 It really does not help anyone on either side of the border, especially Canadians.

00:04:46.060 And that's who the Canadian government really should be looking out for.

00:04:49.300 And if they want to help Canadians, they should instead find ways to boost productivity and boost our capacity to withstand these tariffs by making our economy more competitive and not actually less competitive.

00:05:02.420 Isaac, I know we were looking at some stats together before we hit record on the show.

00:05:06.380 So what's your thoughts on this when you're looking at some of these charts?

00:05:11.580 Yeah, this doesn't make any sense to me.

00:05:14.240 Obviously, with that one study, Chris, we saw that the tariffs from the United States would increase our inflation by about 1.5%.

00:05:21.780 But then with our counter tariffs, it would double to 3%.

00:05:25.080 So as your analogy alluded to, why are you self-inflicting harm upon your citizens to retaliate to the United States?

00:05:32.880 It makes no sense whatsoever.

00:05:33.980 And I mean, there's so many questions that come to mind.

00:05:37.240 Firstly, we've obviously focused on the Canadian response to these tariffs.

00:05:41.160 I'm curious because obviously Trump is trying to alleviate the issues he feels are so problematic, that being the border and the fentanyl and the drug crisis over the borders.

00:05:54.200 But I'm wondering, Chris, do you have any insights onto how Americans are reacting to these tariffs?

00:06:00.080 Because as you said, this is going to increase the cost for Americans.

00:06:03.800 So is Trump losing support in the States because of these tariffs?

00:06:09.600 Or what's the deal there?

00:06:11.460 That's a great question.

00:06:12.560 So just taking off my Taxpayers Federation hat off for a minute, I've been in the game for a bit.

00:06:17.960 And I've talked to people from all walks of life, including people who are really mad.

00:06:24.580 And I've had to de-escalate them and get them talking about their feelings, and especially as a talk radio host.

00:06:30.060 I don't think the Canadians went about this the right way, for the most part, trying to have an air war in the media where you're getting into kind of war of words and insulting each other and stuff and trying to, you know, Trump, you know, pardon the term, Trump up kind of Canadian patriotism.

00:06:48.160 But on the surface level of like, we're going to take American booze off the shelf that we've already paid for, which doesn't really make sense.

00:06:55.840 We're going to boo the American anthem, which at the time makes you feel viscerally good if that's the type of person you are, but doesn't look great on American TV.

00:07:04.820 My assessment of this is that the smarter way to go about this, and this is exactly to your point, Isaac, is similar to the way that Premier Smith was trying.

00:07:16.060 So get down there, put a smile on your face, here to help, want to make a deal, and really appeal to the governors of states where this is going to hit them the most.

00:07:28.060 And show them with like math and graphs of, hey, your gasoline is going to cost you like 25 cents more per gallon, like today, because you're not getting it at the same discount from Alberta that you used to be because you're hitting it with a 10% tariff.

00:07:47.000 Thank goodness it's not 25%.

00:07:49.260 And to that point, I think that's why the Premier was able to get just the 10% tariff punishment from Trump instead of 25%.

00:07:58.360 Because she was down there doing the diplomacy thing. 0.99

00:08:03.160 But politics gets in the way, right?

00:08:05.600 So you see what's happening in Ottawa, and if you're just a cold, hard calculator, and you're looking at political expediency, what's easier?

00:08:15.160 Getting down there and actually doing the, I'm going to, how do I put this nicely, grin and bear it, and get through some of these difficult conversations with somebody who wants to dominate my country, and work out a deal, or just bloviate from Toronto or Ottawa about how bad things are, and then your politics will get a rise in the polls.

00:08:39.060 So that's what we're seeing.

00:08:40.900 Yeah.

00:08:41.000 Yeah, you bring up a great point that a lot of the politics of Canada right now are being dictated by emotion.

00:08:49.140 It feels really good to hit the Americans back with tariffs when they impose tariffs against you.

00:08:55.020 It feels really good to espouse venomous rhetoric against Donald Trump because he is legitimately attacking our economy, and Canadians should feel some level of anger about it.

00:09:08.700 But, you know, the reasonable thing to do is to outline what your goals are and to achieve those through reasonable policies.

00:09:15.800 If your goals are to mitigate the effect that this has for Canadians, then you should be deregulating your economy.

00:09:22.380 You should be cutting taxes.

00:09:23.540 You should be trying to make your economy as appealing for investors from, say, Europe, from Asia, from the United States, inside Canada.

00:09:34.640 Make those investors want to invest in Canadian businesses and in, you know, Canadian entrepreneurs so that you can actually grow out your economy and make Canada, you know, great again.

00:09:46.600 Well, the Americans shoot themselves in the foot and, you know, American tech entrepreneurs and American manufacturers look across the pond and say, you know, wow, the Canadians have it great over there.

00:09:59.120 But instead, they're looking across the pond and saying, hey, you know, the tariffs aren't going to be great for us.

00:10:03.860 But, you know, they're languishing in an overly regulated environment and, you know, they're being taxed to high hell.

00:10:13.580 So, you know, I think that we need to set our goals and, you know, and move clearly toward them if we're going to, you know, actually get through these next three and a half years.

00:10:24.040 Isaac, I'll let you jump in after a second, but I wanted to actually hear from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, he's still Prime Minister, on what his actual response to the tariff imposition is.

00:10:34.140 We have a clip of him. Here's what he said.

00:10:36.320 To my fellow Canadians, I won't sugarcoat it.

00:10:41.100 This is going to be tough, even though we're all going to pull together because that's what we do.

00:10:47.620 We will use every tool at our disposal so Canadian workers and businesses can weather this storm.

00:10:55.560 From expanding EI benefits and making them more flexible to providing direct supports to businesses, we will be there as needed to help.

00:11:06.620 But Canada, make no mistake, no matter how long this lasts, no matter what the cost, the federal government and other orders of government will be there for you.

00:11:17.620 We will defend Canadian jobs.

00:11:21.140 We will take measures to prevent predatory behaviour that threatens Canadian companies because of the impacts of this trade war, leaving them open to takeovers.

00:11:32.560 We will relentlessly fight to protect our economy.

00:11:37.060 We will stand up for Canadians every single second of every single day because this country is worth fighting for.

00:11:47.620 Okay, so once again, that was Prime Minister Justin Trudeau responding, I would say, pretty emotionally to what was happening with President Donald Trump imposing tariffs on Canadians.

00:11:59.100 And again, I get it.

00:12:00.440 There is going to be folks on this side of the border who are losing their jobs because of this nonsense.

00:12:05.240 So this, pardon my language, sucks and it shouldn't be happening.

00:12:09.740 But the smart thing to do is to kind of take a moment, step back and figure out how to fix it as best we can on this side of the border.

00:12:17.520 I'll give you an example.

00:12:18.540 Like when, back when he first won and he was tweeting out, Canada's not a real country, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:12:25.260 And then he said something a bit more than that.

00:12:27.640 Like my temper spiked.

00:12:29.520 I'm like, hey, buddy, like you get back on that side of the fence, man.

00:12:32.720 Like you're annoying me here.

00:12:34.280 But that's not a smart mentality to take into a trade negotiation.

00:12:39.520 So what we should do, I'll throw this to you, Isaac, is, okay, this is the situation we're in.

00:12:46.240 Let's say on the surface that they do care about the border and that this is about fentanyl.

00:12:52.160 Okay, let's do everything we possibly can to take that issue off the table so it's no longer the issue.

00:12:57.280 But what if the American economy and the way that they're handling their finances now does depend on long-term tariffs of other countries?

00:13:07.460 That's a longer-term problem.

00:13:09.160 So let's be smart and exactly what Noah was getting at there.

00:13:12.740 What I didn't hear, Isaac, from the prime minister the other day is we're going to drop all of our carbon taxes.

00:13:19.240 We're going to stop our capital gains tax hike right now.

00:13:22.140 We're going to, in fact, drop it lower.

00:13:23.420 We're going to build a west-to-east pipeline like right now.

00:13:27.280 We're going to have LNG terminals on both coasts.

00:13:30.080 Like, let's really train up for this.

00:13:32.080 Like, have you heard any of those concrete things happening?

00:13:36.980 All right, Chris, so many things I want to cover that have been discussed.

00:13:41.120 But just starting with what Noah said about it feeling good, I just wanted to say quickly that it would only feel good if you're ruled by emotion,

00:13:49.780 not logic, facts, and data, as we've discussed,

00:13:52.400 because how could it feel good to essentially be doing more harm than good to yourself through these tariffs?

00:13:57.840 And we've seen, for example, the anthem booing quickly.

00:14:00.420 We've seen Canadians booing children, children singing the American anthem.

00:14:04.760 I mean, it's sick.

00:14:05.740 Who could feel good about that?

00:14:07.160 This is sickening stuff.

00:14:08.220 In no way are these people singing the anthem to blame for the tariffs or American people as a general populace either, right?

00:14:16.960 So I really hated seeing that stuff at sports games.

00:14:20.060 And let's move into Trudeau's response now, calling President Trump Donald by his first name and then dumb, not calling Trump dumb, but his tactics dumb.

00:14:32.040 I mean, this is not how you negotiate against the most powerful leader in the world, certainly not.

00:14:38.200 As you said, you have to find a deal and bringing it back to emotion.

00:14:43.160 We might think that based on Trudeau's response, he is being ruled by emotion, as so many politicians have been throughout this process.

00:14:51.000 But you've discussed some of the things that should be being tabled, that being pro-energy policies and things that will appease Trump.

00:14:59.640 We've seen Pierre Polyevre, the conservative leader, suggest that he might implement some of those things.

00:15:04.620 What have you guys thought of his response to the tariffs?

00:15:07.320 My estimation, and I watched his speech, but I haven't read his background or on it yet, looks like Polyevre wants retaliatory tariffs, but not across the board.

00:15:17.880 He said it was for items that we can easily make ourselves and or that we don't need.

00:15:24.080 So, for example, I'm just guessing maybe that means that he wouldn't put a tariff on, say, peanut butter imports because we don't generally produce peanut butter on this side of the border.

00:15:35.680 That's largely a Southern thing in the Southern states, the United States.

00:15:38.960 It's hard to say because he's in a tough position right now where he's trying to show patriotism, where it is like, yeah, you get punched, you want to punch back, but you also have to be smart.

00:15:48.980 So don't tie your own shoelaces together and don't punch yourselves in the face.

00:15:52.740 I think he is smart to focus more on making ourselves as lean and mean as competitive as we possibly can.

00:15:59.700 So this is like where, you know, a marathon's coming, you know, you have to run it in six months.

00:16:05.640 So what do you do?

00:16:07.000 Do you eat potato chips and chain smoke for the next five and a half months?

00:16:10.120 Or do you actually start working on your diet and working on your cardiovascular system?

00:16:14.500 That's what we should have been doing.

00:16:16.600 And we should do it like no better time than today.

00:16:19.820 We should do it right now.

00:16:21.200 And so my concern here is that we're going to have all of this pain inflicted both by the United States tariffs and our own tariffs, and we're not going to have the actual solutions that would help Canadians in this situation, which would be dropping all of our carbon taxes and building pipelines.

00:16:40.080 Noah, go ahead.

00:16:40.680 Yeah, I really think it's important that Pierre Poliev proposes a plan that Canadians feel is an appropriate response to the United States' imposition of tariffs while also, you know, making sure that is reasonable policy.

00:16:57.720 And I think, you know, in the lead up to January and the inauguration of Donald Trump, Pierre Poliev has done a good job building out a message that has responded to the concerns of everyday Canadians and building out policy responses that, you know, are, you know, not to be partisan because I'm not trying to be, but are quite reasonable.

00:17:17.800 You know, axing the carbon tax when people are suffering from inflation is a common sense, you know, reasonable policy, you know, trying to increase or make it easier for developers to build housing and, you know, getting rid of development charges is, you know, reasonable policy.

00:17:36.120 But when it comes to these tariffs, Canadians seem to want, you know, to punch back.

00:17:43.180 They want to impose tariffs.

00:17:44.600 So he has to find a balance between, you know, imposing tariffs on things that are, say, inelastic goods as, you know, economic jargon goes.

00:17:53.660 He has to probably try and impose tariffs on things that, you know, can easily be substituted by goods from Canadians or from across the pond in Asia or in Europe.

00:18:05.340 Perhaps a lot of services that American companies provide that can be provided, say, you know, online could be contracted from, you know, companies in Canada or from countries abroad.

00:18:18.320 So there are a lot of ways you can sort of impose sort of some, you know, pain in your own way on the Americans to help the American people come to the conclusion that these tariffs are bad and to pressure the president to reverse course.

00:18:33.620 That is part of the negotiation.

00:18:36.020 And I think that Pierre Polyev has to toe that line.

00:18:38.780 I think he's been doing an okay job, but he ought not stray into dogmatism and into demagoguery with these tariffs like Mark Carney and Justin Trudeau and especially Jagmeet Singh has engaged in.

00:18:56.920 I just wanted to touch on two things there before we move on, Isaac, to Mark Carney.

00:19:03.500 One, the inflation issue.

00:19:06.380 We're hearing some pretty alarming language coming out from the last I saw, and I didn't hear his whole clip.

00:19:12.820 The last I saw was from newly reelected Premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, basically saying that we'll just hand out government money in response to this.

00:19:22.740 And Trudeau saying very similar things.

00:19:25.540 I'm having harsh flashbacks to the government lockdowns and what happened then.

00:19:31.120 Because even just take away all the social stuff and the fact that bank accounts are frozen and stuff.

00:19:36.380 But just financially, financially, that was a disaster because the government turned on the printing press for money just and then handed out, sprayed all of this inflationary cash everywhere.

00:19:48.980 And we had the worst inflation in 40 years.

00:19:54.680 So folks are wondering, holy cow, why is everything so bloody unaffordable and expensive?

00:20:00.180 Ding, ding, ding.

00:20:01.080 It's because of inflation, because of money printing and stupid government decisions and the carbon taxes.

00:20:07.660 And if we have two of the biggest political leaders in Canada in Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Ontario Premier Doug Ford, both going to just say, let's hand out government money, that would be a disaster.

00:20:21.700 It is much smarter to get in there as hard as we can and get a deal so that this punishment stops.

00:20:29.200 So don't do that.

00:20:30.140 Second, again, I know that I mentioned the carbon tax a lot, but this is so important, okay?

00:20:37.220 Look at it this way.

00:20:38.580 We have a massive industrial carbon tax in Canada.

00:20:41.980 It's already here, okay?

00:20:43.460 It's in provinces.

00:20:44.980 Mark Carney, who is probably going to be picked as our next prime minister this weekend.

00:20:50.580 Yes, he'll be prime minister, even if he's not a member of parliament.

00:20:54.060 It's part of our Westminster system, okay?

00:20:57.000 He loves carbon taxes.

00:20:58.900 He is just going to take the consumer tax, which us unwashed masses can see and get mad about, which bothers him, and he's going to hide it in a massive national industrial carbon tax.

00:21:12.520 What that means is two things.

00:21:14.320 One, you're still going to pay it.

00:21:16.700 You're still going to get screwed.

00:21:18.240 You just don't know by whom, okay?

00:21:20.500 So you won't be able to see the evidence or the receipts very easily.

00:21:22.940 Two, on this issue of President Trump.

00:21:27.200 Picture him.

00:21:28.560 Picture him in the Oval Office.

00:21:30.420 He's on the phone.

00:21:31.260 He's wheeling and dealing at his desk.

00:21:32.960 He's calling up fertilizer plants and fuel refineries and manufacturers and steel manufacturers from all over the world.

00:21:40.380 Hey, come back to the United States.

00:21:42.640 Make the Rust Belt Chrome Belt again. 0.99

00:21:44.440 Set up in Pennsylvania.

00:21:45.980 Set up in Michigan.

00:21:46.720 And then he sees an announcement that Canada is imposing massive industrial carbon taxes on fertilizer plants, steel manufacturers, all of these industrialists.

00:21:58.800 Guess what's going to happen?

00:21:59.680 Like, Trump will phone the moving truck company himself to have them go down there.

00:22:05.660 So this is an example of why it is not smart for us to be strangling our own resource sector and hammering our own people with carbon taxes, especially while we have this threat to the South.

00:22:17.520 Isaac, talk me down.

00:22:19.800 Yeah, no.

00:22:20.740 Just, again, Chris, like last time, so many things I want to cover.

00:22:24.220 Give her. 0.66

00:22:24.480 But, yeah, no, just firstly starting with what we were talking about with Ford and Trudeau and suggesting that they would print money.

00:22:32.440 I mean, this is insane to me that any Canadian would be in favor of printing money after we saw the colossal failure that the pandemic policies of printing money were not only for inflation but for CERB, for example, and for the small business loans.

00:22:46.000 I mean, these were corrupt.

00:22:47.440 We've seen reports saying that X percentage, I don't have the data off the top of my mind, but there are companies who weren't eligible getting paid millions, billions of dollars.

00:22:57.200 I mean, how can we possibly advocate for this knowing this?

00:23:00.980 And another thing I wanted to say, Chris, was so much talk of the tariffs, which, of course, tariff is synonymous with tax.

00:23:08.080 Why is the federal government then trying to act as if they're anti-tariff, but then on April 1st, they're going to be hiking the carbon tax, which, from every poll we've seen recently, Canadians are vehemently against the carbon tax.

00:23:25.560 So if you want to have an answer to counteract the tariffs, I mean, hiking or halting that 20% carbon tax, that's a 20% savings right there, I mean, that's going to be better than implementing counter tariffs that are actually hurting your own people, as we've seen through the inflationary data.

00:23:42.640 So this is, I mean, yeah, getting through all that, do we want to hop into the leadership race now?

00:23:48.440 Yeah, let's move to Carney, because I'll finish off with another carbon tax rant.

00:23:52.680 I just know it just happens. I talk about it in my sleep. I'm sorry.

00:23:55.680 But yeah, let's move on to Carney quickly here.

00:23:58.920 Last I saw, it looks like he's going to win.

00:24:02.460 It looks like Mark Carney, the former governor of the Bank of England, the former governor of the Bank of Canada, is going to be chosen as the Liberal Party leader.

00:24:11.200 And I'm breaking it down like this, because folks who don't live in this terrarium that all of us do, who are normal, that must be nice, don't follow all the minutia of this.

00:24:21.320 So when he is a selected leader of the Liberal Party, he will become the de facto Prime Minister of Canada, even though he is not a member of Parliament.

00:24:31.700 So he's not representing like Yellowknife or downtown Toronto or wherever.

00:24:35.500 And that is because the Prime Minister is a member of Cabinet, First Minister.

00:24:42.540 They're the First Minister within the Cabinet to the Crown, King Charles III.

00:24:47.380 So actually, to be part of Cabinet in Canada, under our parliamentary system, our Westminster system, because we are a constitutional monarchy, you don't have to be an MP.

00:24:58.740 You can be in Cabinet without being a member of Parliament.

00:25:02.240 It's rare, but it happens.

00:25:04.440 So this is how Mark Carney, for a period of time, we don't know for how long, will be Prime Minister.

00:25:09.980 At some point in the future, people are going to be expecting a federal election to happen, and he may or may not be elected by people.

00:25:17.800 But as of right now, on Sunday, when they pick their leader, if he's chosen, he will become the Prime Minister, which I think is important for us to focus on some of the stuff that he's been saying.

00:25:29.820 Now, once you guys are finished with him, I did want to point out just how much he desperately loves carbon taxes, but I will get back to that.

00:25:37.360 Noah, did you want to take this one away?

00:25:38.780 You had a timeline that you had written out for Carney.

00:25:42.020 Yeah, so Mark Carney basically claimed that he – okay, so there's a story that broke that Brookfield Asset Management was moving its headquarters to New York.

00:25:56.140 And Mark Carney claimed that he had nothing to do with it.

00:25:58.840 He was completely fine with, you know, Canadians, you know, setting up a shop in Canada and keeping their business there.

00:26:06.360 So, you know, time passes, and it was revealed that Mark Carney, in his role as chairman of the board at Brookfield Asset Management, had actually written a letter recommending that Brookfield Asset Management move its headquarters from Canada to New York.

00:26:25.820 So, Mark Carney, when questioned on this issue, he basically said that, well, there's nothing that I could have done.

00:26:34.500 This was a decision that was already in motion.

00:26:37.580 Maybe I should have gotten better at politics, at, you know, concealing my true intentions.

00:26:43.520 Like, it was really weird stuff that – and really weird things to say, you know, admitting that he's not good enough at being a politician, you know, just flatly saying, like, I'll get better at lying next time.

00:26:54.720 Don't you worry, guys, you know.

00:26:56.440 I'll hide this – I'll hide my next scandal better.

00:26:59.000 But, you know, really appealing to the members of the Liberal Party, you know, how good is your Prime Minister at wiggling through scandals.

00:27:07.600 But it really seems as if Mark Carney has been trying to walk back a lot of the things that he has committed to in his private life, like carbon taxes, like moving Canadian business to the United States,

00:27:20.460 because he believes that setting up shopping in the United States is the best thing for business, which, you know, quite frankly, is not exactly wrong per se.

00:27:31.280 But you're running to be the Prime Minister of Canada.

00:27:33.720 You have to, you know, set a standard for yourself, and you have to, you know, actually, like, invest in Canada and, you know, commit to making Canada better.

00:27:42.880 But Carney really seems to be having to walk back on his commitment on carbon taxes too.

00:27:48.040 You know, carbon taxes were a big thing that Carney advocated for in his book, Values, and, you know, just in his role as an ambassador in the United Nations at COP26.

00:28:02.040 And Carney, he has also had to walk back his claim that he has helped past Prime Ministers.

00:28:08.720 He had to walk back the claim that in 2008, he basically managed Canada's economic crisis and managed Canada's recovery.

00:28:19.280 And he said that he helped Paul Martin balance the budget.

00:28:22.620 Both claims were disputed by people who worked in both governments.

00:28:27.080 So, Mark Carney is really having a hard time adapting to, you know, being truthful and honest in front of media and Canadians.

00:28:37.260 But the Liberals do seem poised to pick Mark Carney.

00:28:41.580 Isaac, if you could just elaborate, what seems to be likely to happen on March 9th when the Liberals pick a new leader?

00:28:50.780 Yeah, just before getting into that, I just wanted to give a quick shout out to True North's Cosmin Georgia, because obviously he has started an investigative series on the book, Values, going into what Carney has said and what he's actually doing and what he says he believes now versus what he's said in the past.

00:29:06.360 But, yeah, no, hopping into the leadership electoral race, which, of course, concludes on Sunday, as you said, we've seen, we've covered this extensively at True North, specifically in the past when the party disqualified Chandra Aria and Ruby Dalla separately for questionable reasons on the candidates' opinion.

00:29:31.800 But certainly we saw that happen when they were clearly picking up steam in the public's eye and looked like they could actually be real contenders for Mark Carney.

00:29:41.600 Ruby Dalla perhaps came out with some of the strongest language against the party's decision, saying that they were essentially just doing whatever they could in their power to coronate Mark Carney and ensure that he became the leader.

00:29:52.900 But another interesting thing I wanted to cover was the Liberals initially released that they had 400,000, approximately 400,000 people sign up to vote in this leadership election.

00:30:04.920 And then we've seen more recent numbers come up, more around the 100,000, 200,000 mark.

00:30:09.600 So people have been really critical of that because a percent or even less than a percent of Canada's population will be determining who becomes the next prime minister.

00:30:19.280 I mean, it is really shocking when you look at it that way, like 100,000 people could be determining who becomes the prime minister.

00:30:26.480 This is this is nothing when in a general election, what would we expect, 20, 30 million?

00:30:31.260 I mean, it's kind of crazy when you think about it that way.

00:30:34.220 Yeah, the fact that like, you know, like one percent of the population, I think only like two percent of the Canadian population is just registered for political parties in general.

00:30:42.420 So these parties have a lot of power and they actually have a lot more power in the sense that, you know, only like less than one percent of Canadians are picking the prime minister in this liberal leadership race.

00:30:54.680 In the United States, when they have a primary, you know, they have like, you know, substantially more Americans show out.

00:31:02.660 And, you know, whoever wins the primary primary doesn't get immediately installed as president.

00:31:07.400 They still have to win a presidential election.

00:31:09.720 So not only are less Canadians having power to pick the liberal leader, the liberal leader is going to become the prime minister.

00:31:16.180 So, you know, Canadians really, I think, are going to be concerned about, you know, the fact that, hey, you know, I thought we're going to be thrown into election.

00:31:25.780 You know, this guy actually becomes prime minister and they're going to want to hold him accountable in elections, see, you know, what platform he's actually going to run on in a general when he's appealing to all Canadians.

00:31:36.860 They're going to want to litigate some of his past work as Bank of Canada governor, Bank of England governor, you know, his time at Brookfield and on the boards of several, you know, nonprofits and other organizations.

00:31:51.280 They're going to want to get to know him because most Canadians still don't have a good impression of him.

00:31:56.780 And I suspect that that's true because a lot of Quebecers say they're going to vote for him in opinion polls, but the guy doesn't know a lick of French.

00:32:03.660 So, you know, I think when, you know, a camp, a general election campaign actually gets underway and, you know, Canadians are turning into the evening news, you know, almost every night to see what's happening in the election.

00:32:16.720 Uh, they're going to get a interesting impression of Carney and maybe some of that, uh, John Turner effect, uh, kicks in.

00:32:24.920 Just saying, uh, I started on Parliament Hill in early 2001 before 9-11.

00:32:31.800 Uh, I knew Paul Martin's staff pretty well.

00:32:35.740 I knew Prime Minister Stephen Harper's staff pretty well.

00:32:38.580 I knew Jim Flaherty's staff well.

00:32:41.340 Mark Carney's name did not come up.

00:32:42.840 Um, like, I'm just flat out saying, and I would say the same thing if he were running for a Conservative Party leader and trying to claim that he was right there with Jim Flaherty, Cheek to Jell.

00:32:53.700 And I must say, it takes quite a bit, I find, for Stephen Harper, um, to put his oar in nowadays.

00:32:59.880 And he did.

00:33:00.800 He came out and he's like, okay, enough of this.

00:33:03.000 Like, no.

00:33:04.300 Like, yes, you were governor of Bank of Canada.

00:33:06.600 Yes, you're clearly a pretty smart dude.

00:33:08.180 Um, but don't, don't just pass this off.

00:33:11.100 Um, and now maybe this was all happening in secret that we couldn't see.

00:33:15.340 It was like at the super duper secret meeting that none of the staff were busy gabbing about.

00:33:20.280 Um, trend, uh, spoiler alert, staff gab about everything.

00:33:24.160 And this would have come up.

00:33:25.760 Um, and it didn't.

00:33:27.520 So, just saying, there were a lot of people there at the time who were observing what was going on.

00:33:32.600 That wasn't a factor.

00:33:34.080 Just straight up.

00:33:34.620 Yeah, no, you're right.

00:33:35.560 Like, it takes a lot for our proper comment nowadays.

00:33:38.180 The quote is, Carney is, in all caps, not the day-to-day management of Canada's economic, uh, economy during the global financial crisis.

00:33:47.760 Uh, and, you know, he basically says that he's actively taking away credit from Jim Flaherty, who's not around to defend himself.

00:33:53.860 He, uh, died in 2014, uh, a few weeks after resigning as finance minister.

00:33:59.040 And, uh, you know, he isn't around to say, hey, you know, hey, I actually did a lot of the work in the financial crisis.

00:34:05.360 Thank, thank you very much.

00:34:06.600 It was actually the government that set fiscal policy.

00:34:09.320 The Bank of Canada really just cut rates like most other central banks around the world.

00:34:15.160 So, you know, his job isn't exactly all that complicated, if we're being honest.

00:34:21.980 It's especially important, just in interpersonal relationships, to be really careful, uh, when someone has passed.

00:34:29.000 So, for example, uh, the late NDP leader Jack Layton was opposed to the carbon tax.

00:34:35.440 And I say that because I remember talking to him about it with my face directly.

00:34:40.120 And he also said so many times to other journalists, and it wound up in the Globe and Mail.

00:34:45.140 Now, would I say he'd be against it today?

00:34:47.820 No, that's not the right thing to do, because he might have changed his mind.

00:34:51.780 So, it's really, you got to be careful, especially when you're dealing with someone who is no longer with us.

00:34:57.640 So, that did certainly seem like a big misstep.

00:35:01.140 Now, when it comes, where, where were we with carbon tax?

00:35:03.600 Oh, yes, I have to point this out really quickly, because like this book, I know I harp on this book all the time.

00:35:09.200 Um, if I can beg and plead people, if you don't want to spend money on it, go find it at the library.

00:35:14.260 Don't make Cosman do all the reading.

00:35:16.800 Um, start a book club and read this thing.

00:35:20.180 Because even just the stuff that he has in here on the carbon tax is essential for us to understand.

00:35:27.160 Because this person is going to be prime minister, at least for a period of time.

00:35:31.900 And so, I just wanted to quickly read one chunk here to show how important carbon taxes are to him.

00:35:39.420 So, carbon taxes are all through this book.

00:35:41.540 It's essential.

00:35:42.460 But so much so that he sees individuals, you, me, all of us listening, as personal carbon emissions budgets.

00:35:52.780 Okay, like walking, talking carbon emissions budgets.

00:35:56.600 So, I want to read from this book, page 233.

00:36:01.300 To limit temperature increases to 1.5 degrees Celsius, the average global citizen born today will have a personal carbon emissions budget over their lifetime equivalent to one-eighth of their grandparents.

00:36:17.040 Okay, that means all of us that are living today will have to reduce our use of things like oil and gas, our carbon emissions budget, to one-eighth of our grandparents.

00:36:34.200 That is insane.

00:36:35.600 It's all through this.

00:36:37.060 It is all through this book.

00:36:38.540 So, this is not like one of those things where you're like, oh, I used to really like lasagna, but I'm on a no-carb diet now and I've seen the light.

00:36:45.140 That's not the same thing.

00:36:46.360 This is like a keystone to his worldview.

00:36:49.800 And he also says repeatedly in here that over 80% of our oil and gas needs to be left in the ground.

00:36:56.880 And he sees things like power plants as stranded assets.

00:37:01.560 Folks, like, we have to really pay attention to what this guy is saying.

00:37:05.460 And I really hope that he answers this question, this key question.

00:37:08.960 Okay, you aren't going to scrap the carbon tax.

00:37:11.760 You say you're going to change it.

00:37:14.000 How much will it cost?

00:37:16.360 It's not zero.

00:37:18.800 So, how much will it cost?

00:37:20.360 Also, to end on tariffs real quick, we all are worried about tariffs, which are trade taxes, and we've explained.

00:37:27.840 Carney wants to impose brand new, never before used, carbon tariffs on imports into Canada.

00:37:36.480 Yes.

00:37:37.120 Yes.

00:37:37.800 So, any country that does not have a national carbon tax, that upsets him.

00:37:43.080 And in order to punish that country, he wants to impose a carbon tariff on their stuff coming to us.

00:37:50.880 This is not something he just said in this book.

00:37:53.060 He said it with his face out loud at his announcement in Halifax, like, a few weeks ago.

00:37:58.860 So, sorry.

00:37:59.980 Just buckle up, folks. 0.91

00:38:01.100 We're in for a hurricane here.

00:38:03.000 Isaac, where did you want to end this?

00:38:04.320 Do you guys want to end this on NP pay raises?

00:38:06.660 I think Noah has something to say.

00:38:08.060 Go ahead, Noah.

00:38:08.680 Yeah, I just want to add that, like, he wrote a book called Values.

00:38:13.080 It's either that, you know, he wrote this book called Values.

00:38:16.160 I completely lied that, you know, these are, you know, values that are close to him.

00:38:20.020 Or, you know, he is just saying, you know, oh, you know, I'm going to get rid of the carbon tax, you know, to one audience.

00:38:26.420 And then to another audience, he's going to say, oh, no, I'm going to keep the carbon tax.

00:38:29.720 And when he gets into power, he's just, you know, going to govern by his values, as stated in the book.

00:38:36.240 So, you know, either option is not good.

00:38:39.480 It's either this man is a radical or he's dishonest.

00:38:42.580 And I don't think we want a dishonest prime minister or a radical prime minister.

00:38:48.020 Well, Noah, we have seen that he will cater his message based on the audience he's speaking to greatly,

00:38:54.840 considering he's told French and English-speaking Canadians completely opposite stories.

00:39:00.540 Because when he was in Quebec speaking of Francphones, he said, oh, we'll never have a pipeline through Quebec.

00:39:04.420 I would never do that to you guys.

00:39:05.780 But then speaking to English-Canadians, he said, I'll be the most, well, I'll be pro-energy.

00:39:11.060 I'll put pipelines everywhere.

00:39:12.360 Any province is up for grabs.

00:39:14.160 So how can you, these are days apart, by the way.

00:39:17.200 How can you tell two different stories, completely opposite things, days apart?

00:39:20.520 It's just to appease the audience.

00:39:22.800 Just a quick pro tip for Mr. Carney.

00:39:26.340 Not all of us are perfectly bilingual.

00:39:28.800 But most Canadians know jamais means never.

00:39:31.820 Like, we know enough about that, okay?

00:39:34.480 I've read enough cereal boxes.

00:39:36.240 I've followed Telefrancais with the singing pineapple.

00:39:38.900 Like, you know, at least most of us know jamais means never, which is the word he used when he talked about never putting a pipeline through Quebec.

00:39:48.100 So how about just we duck all over come off?

00:39:52.660 How about that?

00:39:53.880 That was a bit of a misstep.

00:39:56.060 It was interesting to see some of his colleagues on stage trying to help him and jump in there.

00:40:01.100 I'm like, I don't think you meant to say that.

00:40:02.740 Just, you know, just saying.

00:40:04.240 All right.

00:40:04.540 Did we want to leave on a hilarious because you either have to laugh or cry?

00:40:08.940 So I'm choosing to laugh note about the member of parliament pay raises.

00:40:13.820 Okay.

00:40:14.320 Let's do it.

00:40:14.960 So folks, I apologize in advance.

00:40:17.000 This is going to make you want to barf.

00:40:18.520 So get your Pepto-Bismol ready.

00:40:20.740 On April 1st, not only are we getting a huge carbon tax hike, which will make it more expensive for you to buy gasoline, diesel, natural gas, and propane.

00:40:30.320 So basically it becomes a tax on everything because trucking and we live in a cold country.

00:40:34.940 So that's going up April 1st.

00:40:37.580 But there is a member of parliament pay raise that's happening too.

00:40:43.700 Yeah.

00:40:44.280 So on April 1st, your average backbencher, benchwarmer member of parliament is getting about a $6,000 or $7,000 raise around there.

00:40:53.380 And the prime minister is getting around a $16,000 raise.

00:40:57.700 After this raise is done on April 1st, a backbench MP, I mean, with no committee responsibilities, you're not a deputy whip leader, blah, blah, blah, of your party, is going to make $211,000 per year with a huge expense account.

00:41:14.980 Keep in mind.

00:41:15.740 Okay.

00:41:16.000 So like their food is paid for and their energy and their travel.

00:41:18.540 The prime minister of Canada's salary is going to be $422,000 per year.

00:41:26.740 Yes, he lives in a mansion and all of his stuff is paid for.

00:41:30.320 I looked it up real quick.

00:41:32.360 He's making more, last I checked, than the prime minister of Great Britain and the prime minister of New Zealand.

00:41:39.040 Now, the prime minister of Australia, that is whack.

00:41:41.500 He is like being paid way too much.

00:41:43.680 But as far as the scale of prime ministers go, the prime minister of Canada is making coin.

00:41:49.220 And that is happening on April 1st.

00:41:52.540 Thoughts on this, gentlemen?

00:41:53.760 Noah, I notice you still have a hole in your ceiling.

00:41:56.180 So.

00:41:57.960 Yeah.

00:41:58.440 Hopefully you could divert some of that prime ministerial salary to the roof.

00:42:03.000 Help Canadians.

00:42:04.140 We're looking out for Canadians.

00:42:05.220 How about this Canadian right now? 0.89

00:42:06.320 We're going to give a give, send, go for Noah's roof.

00:42:10.200 But no, like, I mean, as I said, like, you know, he makes, you know, a big song of tats about, we're looking out for you.

00:42:17.160 We've got your back, you know, but he's really got his own back, you know.

00:42:20.720 And it's not like he doesn't lack for anything.

00:42:23.560 This guy has a lot of money.

00:42:25.460 So it's really hypocritical that, you know, he's giving his MPs and himself a massive raise.

00:42:32.160 It's also interesting that not only is Justin Trudeau giving MPs a raise, Doug Ford is.

00:42:38.780 For about a decade, Ontario has had an MPP pay freeze.

00:42:44.680 So they've been getting, they've been stuck around about $120,000, if I'm correct.

00:42:49.800 I don't have the figure right in front of me, but it was around there.

00:42:52.100 Yep.

00:42:52.460 And Doug Ford says, hey, I want an election.

00:42:56.320 I can't campaign on increasing MP pay.

00:42:59.700 So let's wait till after election and then boom, we're going to increase MPP pay.

00:43:05.060 So it's a growing trend across the country.

00:43:08.100 I know that in British Columbia, David Eby has no gripes with MLA pay increases.

00:43:14.640 And, you know, while our politicians continue to align their politics and get more and more, you know, equipment, more wealth, we continue to struggle.

00:43:25.460 It's interesting that the politicians are responsible for managing our economies, but their pay is in no way tied to the health of our economy.

00:43:36.420 Exactly.

00:43:37.020 You know, like if you want, if you want this pay increase, let's see GDP growth at like 4% per capita.

00:43:44.380 You know, you want that pay increase, you know, let's see the inflation at like 1%, you know, you don't deserve that.

00:43:51.860 You know, like if inflation goes up to above like 2.5%, like there's a pay should be docked.

00:43:57.980 Not, not, not, it should be docked 2.5%, not increasing.

00:44:02.700 Yeah, they used to have balanced budget legislation in British Columbia, where if a minister delivered a deficit in their department, they got a pay cut.

00:44:09.900 Yeah.

00:44:10.120 It was great.

00:44:10.660 That's how it should be.

00:44:11.760 That's how it should be.

00:44:12.760 But, you know, accountability, they're allergic to it.

00:44:16.180 You know, this is the real change they campaigned on, you know, lack of accountability.

00:44:20.300 I love it.

00:44:21.380 You know, let's move toward, you know, the side of Russia and, you know, and less account of transparency instead of more accountability. 0.60

00:44:29.220 That's, that's great.

00:44:31.080 Congratulations, Trudeau.

00:44:32.120 We almost got through an entire show without mentioning Russia, but good job.

00:44:37.020 Damn it.

00:44:38.380 Isaac, I'll let you have your two cents here on there.

00:44:41.740 Chris, yeah.

00:44:42.940 Chris, I'm thinking you at the CTF maybe should start a petition to advocate for a performance-based pay for parliamentarians.

00:44:50.260 I mean, imagine how much we could improve our country if parliamentarians had to improve it to improve their pay scale. 0.96

00:44:57.480 We, you know, the similarities I'm drawing right now are, of course, to the CBC, who, despite their declining numbers, continue to give themselves raises.

00:45:06.440 And we've covered this extensively at True North.

00:45:08.960 It's like, oh, nobody's watching our shows.

00:45:11.580 Nobody's listening to our podcast.

00:45:13.480 Nobody's reading our articles.

00:45:16.280 You know what?

00:45:16.760 And 25% increase across the board.

00:45:18.400 Everyone gets paid more because, hey, it's taxpayer money.

00:45:20.800 We can just do whatever we want with it.

00:45:22.840 And, of course, parliamentarians might be doing the same thing. 0.80

00:45:26.080 Perfect.

00:45:27.000 Well, we do have a petition at Taxpayer.com to stop the MP pay hikes.

00:45:31.540 And I will put a call out to every member of parliament.

00:45:34.960 There is a yawning chasm of opportunity right here that you can just step into.

00:45:41.260 The late, great Ralph Klein once said something to the effect of a really smart politician sees which way the parade is going and then jumps in front of that sucker.

00:45:49.940 And that's what a member of parliament should do really quick.

00:45:53.760 They should come out and say, I am fundamentally opposed to these pay increases.

00:45:58.880 I will not take these pay increases if they are forced and there's nothing I can do about it.

00:46:04.240 Dollar for dollar, nickel for nickel.

00:46:05.980 I will make sure every one of my members of parliament in my party donates this money to charity.

00:46:11.200 And then once I get in, I'm going to scale back our pay by this much.

00:46:16.900 There is like, feel free.

00:46:18.820 What I just said, I don't care about the credit.

00:46:21.720 Steal it.

00:46:22.180 Put it on a bumper sticker.

00:46:24.300 Go for it.

00:46:25.100 This is a huge opportunity to show that you're putting your money where your mouth is when you say, we're all in this together.

00:46:32.380 All Canadians are really going to feel it.

00:46:34.360 No, no.

00:46:35.620 We're all in the same storm.

00:46:37.280 Some of y'all are in a taxpayer funded yacht and the rest of us are in a dinghy.

00:46:41.380 Some folks are unfortunately drowning.

00:46:43.840 Okay.

00:46:44.040 That's the situation we're actually in.

00:46:46.320 So do not be disgusting and take a taxpayer funded pay hike on April 1st.

00:46:52.540 And I am actually super mad about this because guess what?

00:46:55.840 Remember back during the lockdowns when people were losing their jobs, rampant depression, people were getting their wages cut.

00:47:03.700 It was hell.

00:47:04.720 Those members of parliament never missed one pay increase.

00:47:10.840 Not one.

00:47:11.860 Not one time.

00:47:13.260 On April 1st, they say, you know what?

00:47:15.060 We're going to knock this off because this is pretty disgusting.

00:47:18.280 This is very much let them eat cake.

00:47:20.220 No, they don't seem to have that kind of situational awareness.

00:47:23.860 So just saying, it would be really good for a political leader to come out and lead this fight and say, you know what?

00:47:30.580 Even just for the symbolism of this, I am stopping this MP pay increase.

00:47:35.560 So I'm going to leave with that fun note.

00:47:37.560 Folks, fight back. 0.71

00:47:39.140 Okay.

00:47:39.680 Head on over to the True North website.

00:47:41.580 Leave us a comment.

00:47:42.340 Send us an email.

00:47:43.900 And do yourself a favor.

00:47:45.300 Or send an email to your member of parliament and your MPP, whatever your provincial representative is.

00:47:51.040 Tell them that you're keeping an eye on what they're doing, what they're spending, and how they're voting.

00:47:54.620 Okay?

00:47:55.160 That will do two things.

00:47:56.320 One, it will keep them on their toes for next time when they come to knock for your vote.

00:48:00.780 And two, it will give you a sense of agency and fellowship that you're not in this by yourself and that you're able to say something.

00:48:07.460 Folks, I'll leave the last word to you.

00:48:09.160 Isaac and Noah, if you want to sign off here.

00:48:10.860 Well, I just got to say that, you know, holding your members of parliament, as Chris said, to account is very important.

00:48:20.560 You know, they sometimes have public events go out to there.

00:48:23.420 You know, sometimes they have town halls.

00:48:24.680 And if your member of parliament doesn't do these sorts of things, reach out to them and say, why aren't you facing the music in public?

00:48:31.900 You know, it's really important that our member of parliament stay engaged in their communities and they're reporting back the experiences of those communities to Ottawa and don't just become auto-washed, as someone once told me.

00:48:44.520 That's a good term.

00:48:45.840 Isaac, I'll let you have the last word.

00:48:47.720 Yeah, I don't really have much more to add, Chris, especially because I'm just, I don't want you to get more angry.

00:48:53.980 Oh, thank you.

00:48:57.180 All right, folks.

00:48:57.900 Thank you so much for watching.

00:48:59.480 And remember, until next time, everything we said here was off the record.

Off the Record - March 07, 2025

The Tariff War Begins

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