Order of Man - 088： Work⧸Life Balance, Fact or Fiction？ with Larry Hagner

00:00:00.000 Work-life balance is a term that gets tossed around all the time, guys, but is it even possible to

00:00:04.380 achieve? With all that we have going on as men, it seems impossible to manage at times, but my guest

00:00:08.280 today, Larry Hagner, with The Good Dad Project, shares with me how we can create more purposeful

00:00:12.680 time, why it's easier for each and every one of us to be driven at home than it is at work, and what

00:00:17.520 it means to live life with work-life integration. You're a man of action. You live life to the

00:00:23.060 fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back

00:00:28.840 up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:36.360 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day,

00:00:41.700 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:46.340 Men, what's going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder of

00:00:49.740 Order of Man. If you're new to the show today, this is a show about all things manly. Not what

00:00:53.640 mainstream media would have you believe is manly, but what actually is leadership in the home,

00:00:58.360 or your office and community, the ability and the skill sets to protect yourself and your loved

00:01:03.960 ones, and how you can provide emotionally, mentally, and physically for the most important

00:01:08.880 people in your life. Guys, I have got a great show lined up for you today with one of my good

00:01:13.860 friends, Larry Hagner with The Good Dad Project, but before I get into the show today, I do want to

00:01:17.980 give you three resources. I give you these each and every week, but you need to know about these

00:01:21.180 things so you can learn how to be the best man that you are capable of becoming. So first,

00:01:26.000 the show notes for this show, as always, they can be found at orderofmen.com slash 088. Second,

00:01:31.880 guys, we have a closed men's Facebook group you'll want to check out. Now, we've got over 11,000 men

00:01:37.820 in the group, and that grows by about 500 to 600 men each and every week, and we are having some real

00:01:43.260 and serious discussions regarding what it means to be a man. You can check that out and join the group

00:01:48.440 at facebook.com slash groups slash orderofmen. And third, and this is only for those of you who are

00:01:53.620 seriously committed. Now, you've got to be seriously committed to leveling up your life

00:01:56.820 as a man. This is the Iron Council. Iron Council is our mastermind where we do more than just talk

00:02:01.500 about what it means to be a man. We actually live what it means to be a man. We're showing up for

00:02:05.700 each other in big ways inside of the council, and specifically this month, we're going to be

00:02:09.360 talking a lot about our 12-week battle plan so each and every one of us can get ready to crush

00:02:15.180 2017. So you can find more about that and join us at orderofmen.com slash Iron Council.

00:02:20.820 Now, without further ado, let me introduce you to my guest today, Mr. Larry Hagner.

00:02:25.100 He is an author, speaker, coach, podcaster, and the founder of The Good Dad Project, which I'm sure

00:02:29.420 a lot of you listen to as it is. The Good Dad Project is dedicated to helping men become the

00:02:33.940 best versions of themselves so they can show up in a big way for their children. This is critical

00:02:38.720 for you. It's critical for me as a father, and I know you're going to get a ton of value from this.

00:02:42.760 Larry grew up in a fatherless environment for most of his life, and when he became a father

00:02:46.800 himself nine years ago, he had no idea what to do. Larry and our stories are very, very similar.

00:02:51.940 All that he knew is that he did not want to fail. He dove into self-improvement. He worked with

00:02:56.140 coaches and mentors, and then he ended up creating The Good Dad Project to help other men with some

00:03:00.840 of the struggles that he was going through. Larry is also a published author. He published a book

00:03:04.740 called The Dad's Edge, Nine Simple Ways to Unlimited Patience, Improve Relationships, and Positive

00:03:09.420 Lasting Memories. I've read it myself. You guys need to check that out, but he's also created an

00:03:13.000 online course called The Dad's Edge, Six Simple Strategies to Empowering Your Journey as a Dad,

00:03:17.620 and today he's here to talk with us about how to create more balance in our lives.

00:03:22.680 Larry, what's going on, brother? Glad you're here today.

00:03:25.260 What's going on, Ryan? Man, it's good to talk to you.

00:03:27.320 I am exceptionally glad that you're here today because for those of you who don't know,

00:03:30.860 my computer crashed, right? A couple of, well, actually yesterday, and I lost some audio files,

00:03:35.860 so don't get after me, anybody, about backing up. I know I need to do a better job backing up,

00:03:39.900 but Larry, like a true friend that he is, stepped up, clutch. I'm so glad that you're

00:03:44.560 here today that we have a show. I needed to make sure we had a show released for Tuesday.

00:03:48.640 Man, no problem. Dude, I think that there's something, honestly, in the air because, I mean,

00:03:53.580 anybody who, I think we have a lot of the same listeners, and if anyone is listening to my past

00:03:57.240 four shows, there's been serious audio issues, and I could not figure out what was going on. Well,

00:04:02.620 come to find out, my hard drive was about to crash, so I had to go out and buy a new computer and do all

00:04:08.360 kinds of things, so I feel your pain, man, and I ended up having to trash, I think, two or three

00:04:13.840 interviews. I was about four weeks ahead, and now I'm running a week ahead, so I'm like really in

00:04:18.740 a crunch, so I feel your pain. Maybe you're the bad luck guy then. Maybe I am. Maybe we should just

00:04:23.100 end this interview now. Well, hey, no, I think it's important we talk about this because this is a

00:04:27.660 conversation that a lot of guys in our audience have. I know it's a conversation a lot of guys in

00:04:31.380 your audience have, and that's this idea of balance between all the hats that all of us are

00:04:36.440 wearing, you know, community service, spiritual obligations, family business, whatever we have

00:04:40.720 going on. Talk to me a little bit about your concept of the idea or notion of balance.

00:04:46.780 You know, this is something that's been tossed around so much in our community and our masterminds,

00:04:51.520 and I know they have been with you as well, and this is something that you and I even personally

00:04:54.800 have talked about, and I mean, I've really come to the conclusion that as much as I try to strive

00:05:00.240 for balance, I mean, it's virtually impossible, and that didn't really hit me until we had Rich Roll

00:05:06.760 on our podcast. If you're a type A personality, if you're a very competitive person, if you're a

00:05:12.700 driver, which most men are to some degree, it's nearly impossible to have balance because you're 1.00

00:05:19.820 normally focused on something, you know, whether that's a goal, a business aspiration, an event,

00:05:26.380 whatever it is, you're usually focused on something, you know, hard, hardcore. I mean,

00:05:30.720 I really think that how you can accomplish quote-unquote balance is more what I like to call

00:05:36.360 now work-life integration. Yeah, talk to me about that. What does that mean? What do you mean by

00:05:40.620 work-life integration? So I think balance is nearly impossible to achieve, and I think in order to

00:05:46.520 have work-life integration, you have to be disciplined. I mean, I think that's really the big secret is

00:05:51.480 being disciplined because we literally, as men, you know, fathers, husbands, significant others,

00:05:58.120 you know, business owners, employees, we're hit with about 100 things a day that want and need our

00:06:04.540 attention at all times. And in this day and age, I mean, we are now accessible 24-7 with our mobile

00:06:11.940 devices. So literally, if we really, really wanted to, we could work 23 hours out of the day. In fact,

00:06:18.400 some of us I know would be like, I could totally work for 23 hours out of the day and it would,

00:06:22.020 you know, I'd just keep going. But what I think it really boils down to is how you achieve balance

00:06:26.520 and fulfillment is being very, very disciplined and being very, and just being relentless with

00:06:32.480 your time management skills. And here's an example. So I'm pretty relentless with my calendar because

00:06:37.840 I think if you're an entrepreneur, business owner, father, husband, you wear all these hats,

00:06:42.540 you need to be very, very protective of your purposeful time. And your purposeful time,

00:06:47.820 obviously, in your business life is you need to be engaged. You need to give your business or

00:06:52.960 if you're an employee, you need to give your employer 150% of your energy and effort and everything

00:07:00.000 you're putting into that business or job. And the way to do that is scheduling those tasks and the

00:07:05.640 things that need to be accomplished and the things that are result driven within your calendar.

00:07:11.760 And that way it's visual, it's right there. And you know, these are the things that you need to get

00:07:16.980 done. How do you identify that? Because I think that's a challenge. Like we get so much,

00:07:21.480 like if I look at my to-do list and all the things that I have to do, even just today,

00:07:25.380 it's overwhelming. So how do we identify what we should do first and prioritize those things that

00:07:30.280 we have to get done throughout the day? Man, that's a good question. And I think in this day

00:07:34.700 and age, we have so many tools, almost too many tools really, and resources to be relentless with

00:07:39.900 that type of thing. You can use Evernote if you're more of a tech person. You can use obviously a Google

00:07:44.860 calendar or you can use an Outlook calendar. Here's what I like to do. I'm a writer. I like

00:07:51.260 to write things down. I think, I've never actually researched this, but from what I've heard is that

00:07:57.200 if you actually physically put pen to paper, if you write something down, that way you're thinking it,

00:08:03.500 you're physically writing it, you're seeing it, and you're reflecting on it. So when you write down

00:08:08.840 the things that need to get done. So like for instance, every Sunday night, I will write down,

00:08:13.580 I'll divide my piece of paper into everything I need to do for work, everything I need to do for

00:08:19.160 the Good Dad Project, and everything I need to do for family. And I will write down everything that

00:08:25.180 comes to mind. And dude, I'm not kidding. Like by the time I'm done with my list, I will have

00:08:30.000 written down some weeks, I've counted like 47 things. Of course, right. Right. And if you think about

00:08:36.060 that, I mean, that's 47 things that are constantly ping-ponging in your mind at all times. So just

00:08:43.520 even to get those most important things done that you need to get done, getting them just down on

00:08:48.620 paper and being able to be like, okay, they're out of my head now. They're on paper. I mean, that

00:08:53.120 in and of itself reduces my stress. And I feel an immediate calm when I do that. And then your

00:08:57.940 question of how do you prioritize? I look at that list and I'm like, okay, what are the hard deadline

00:09:03.100 things that need to get done? Like for instance, the non-negotiables. Like I think about our

00:09:07.240 deadline podcast, you know, like for instance, every Wednesday night I release five minute

00:09:10.840 Thursdays and every Sunday, every Sunday night I release the big show. So everybody has it on

00:09:14.980 Monday. So I know within those podcasts, the things that need to get done, those are, those

00:09:18.900 are hard deadlines. So I put those things in my calendar. So I know not only are they going

00:09:23.360 to get done, but they, when are they going to get done? So I think that's a perfect way.

00:09:29.140 Anything that has like a hard, hard deadline, you know, those are the things

00:09:33.060 that you need to put in your calendar. There's also one of the things too, like I like to

00:09:37.820 call like the things that you need to get done, but don't require a whole lot of brain

00:09:41.940 power to get those done. Like for instance, if you need to make a, you know, your six month

00:09:46.620 dentist appointment, you know, those are the types of things like, believe it or not, like

00:09:50.160 I'll be like, okay, it's been six months. I need to make a dentist appointment. And if

00:09:53.720 I don't actually put that in my calendar to make that phone call, that phone call will

00:09:57.200 never happen. So usually what I'll do is if I'm in my car and I know that I have 30

00:10:01.360 minutes in the car, I'll be like, okay, I'm 30 minutes in the car here. I'm going

00:10:05.140 to go ahead and make that phone call then. And that way, I mean, it's, it's crazy how

00:10:09.920 much you can get done. I mean, it sounds maybe over the top, but how much you can

00:10:13.620 get done if you are relentless with your time management and put things in the

00:10:17.920 spots where they need to, to get done.

00:10:20.360 No, this is really interesting. I mean, I, I'm experiencing this to some degree, just

00:10:23.480 even over the past 24 hours where I literally lost my computer and my whole universe is on

00:10:28.060 the computer, but I wasn't, I was productive at the same time. I mean, I noticed I had my

00:10:34.440 phone. I was able to crank some messages out, crank some emails out. I mean, I was able to

00:10:38.060 do some stuff in my gaps of trying to get this thing resolved. And so sometimes I think we

00:10:42.360 get so overwhelmed with technology that it becomes a hindrance rather than a help to us.

00:10:46.560 I totally agree. Like I said, you can have, I mean, I, I tend to get overwhelmed by technology

00:10:51.380 and that's why I'm more of a writer. Um, you know, if I have like, for instance, all my

00:10:55.980 to-dos in Evernote and then I have a calendar and then I have, you know, an Outlook calendar

00:11:00.160 and a Google calendar and all these other things, you know, how can we greatly simplify

00:11:04.120 those things? And to me, I mean, like I said, everyone's got their system and some people

00:11:07.700 swear by certain things. I mean, I, I know for a fact the type of person I am that when

00:11:12.440 I write and then I insert those things on my calendar, just those two tools alone just

00:11:17.480 helped me immensely.

00:11:18.740 Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. And I've, um, obviously that's been a real big help in my

00:11:22.280 life as well. I want to talk about the idea or the, the reason maybe most men, it seems

00:11:28.440 like, and even me to a degree, and I'm sure this is you as well. We have a tendency in

00:11:32.780 my mind to lean more towards pursuing excellence in our business rather than our family. And

00:11:39.200 I'm wondering why that is. I know a lot of guys have talked about why they're experiencing

00:11:43.860 being very driven, very dedicated, very motivated, very focused when it comes to business, but they

00:11:49.280 don't have the same thing when it comes to family. What's up with that, man? That's a

00:11:52.600 good question. We talk about that a lot again, and in our groups, in our community, I'm sure

00:11:56.520 you guys do too. But I, I, I definitely have not only a perspective on this, but I have a

00:12:02.120 personal story that might hit this home as well. I personally think the reason I think

00:12:07.360 it's as men, we are wired, man. We're, it's in our DNA. I mean, we're, we're hunters,

00:12:11.820 right? We're gatherers. I mean, we, that we go out and we achieve victory in the

00:12:16.600 workplace. You know, we go out, we, you know, if we make a sale, we just made a

00:12:19.780 kill. You know, if we have driven the Q3 results, you know, that we said we are going

00:12:25.100 to, to drive home, you know, that's like a kill. It makes us feel good. And it gives

00:12:29.460 us validation, which a lot of men really want validation. But the, but the other

00:12:33.580 thing too, in the workplace, I mean, think about it. Not only is that literally part of

00:12:38.120 our DNA wiring, but it's measurable, right? I mean, it's very easy. Okay. Did I make the

00:12:43.640 quota or not? Or did I get the report done or not? Or did I get the project done or not?

00:12:48.900 It's measurable. In the home front, it's, it's something that I don't think is, um,

00:12:54.260 it's not something that's incredibly tangible. It's, it's hard to measure because, you know,

00:12:58.880 it's like, okay, how do I know if I'm being a good father? And we have all these different

00:13:03.220 challenges that happen to us every single day that, you know, wear on our patients or,

00:13:07.620 you know, we're maybe irritable or we don't necessarily know, okay, if, if A plus B

00:13:13.540 I know that will equal C. A lot of things in the, in the home front aren't like that because there

00:13:18.000 are so many moving parts and there's so many complexities and there's, it's, it's very hard

00:13:23.520 to measure like, well, how, how do I know if I'm being a good husband or how do I know if I'm being

00:13:27.720 a good father? How do you do that? I mean, personally for yourself. Yeah, that's a good

00:13:31.920 question. So I, I, the personal story that I have for this is before I started the Good Dad

00:13:35.700 Project, I tell this story a lot. And for, I've been a dad now for, for 10 years and I can tell you

00:13:41.420 wholeheartedly for the first five years, I was not very good at it. And what I mean by that is I,

00:13:45.360 I didn't beat anybody and I didn't, you know, call anybody names or anything like that, but I just

00:13:50.180 sort of did it at a distance. And I did it at a distance because I got very little validation from

00:13:55.320 it. So what would I do? I do what most men, I did what most men do and that's, well, I'll go dive

00:14:00.100 into work because that's what makes, I'm good at it. That's what makes me feel good and I'm providing.

00:14:04.160 So I'm doing my job, right? And what I found is, is you have to, you have to, and it's, I'm still

00:14:12.280 learning this every day, but how I think you can measure whether or not, you know, when you seek

00:14:18.420 validation, being a father and, and satisfaction being a father or a husband is to be fully and

00:14:25.800 totally present in the moments. And you know, it's some, some moments are messier than others,

00:14:31.180 right? But if we are not engaged in our intuition is telling us like, Hey, you know, I'm, I'm kind

00:14:37.700 of trying, I'm doing this at an arm's length. Chances are that's your, that is your validation

00:14:42.340 right there that you are probably not doing the best job. But if you're there and you're getting

00:14:47.560 your hands dirty and maybe every day isn't roses, but you're there, you're engaged, you're, you're

00:14:52.640 having conversations with your kids, you're having conversations with your wife, you know, you're,

00:14:56.900 you're there to teach support and guide and you're not sitting on the couch watching TV and

00:15:00.800 watching your family pass by. I think that's where you can, you can truly understand whether

00:15:06.320 or not you're doing the right things. It may not feel like the right things all the time,

00:15:11.100 because like I said, life in the family life, it gets messy sometimes, but being present,

00:15:16.160 being there and being purposeful and being engaged, that is your stamp of approval that at least you

00:15:22.380 are headed in the right direction. And you're not going to have the answers for every single

00:15:26.220 situation. But what I think is if you were there and present your kids and your family,

00:15:32.800 I mean, they're going to feel that presence. They're going to feel that love. They're going

00:15:35.580 to feel that engagement. And then that's how we can validate and measure our, our own success

00:15:41.680 within fatherhood. Sure. So how do you do that for yourself? I mean, how do you shut it down at the

00:15:47.040 end of the day? Like I have a friend, he would literally hang on a tree outside of his door to shut it

00:15:51.920 down at the end of the day. How do you personally do that? Cause I know I get consumed. In fact,

00:15:56.380 I think I stayed up to a one or two o'clock last night worrying about how I'm going to get all this

00:16:01.020 stuff taken care of. And so, uh, it can definitely eat at us if we let it. It's, it's so hard. And I

00:16:07.760 got to tell you, I mean, there are some days that I'm really good at it and there are some days that

00:16:12.000 I'm still pretty poor at it. And I say that with full transparency. And I think it's funny because

00:16:16.620 I blog about this all the time. We podcast about it all the time. We teach it in the mastermind

00:16:21.580 groups, but yet sometimes we, you know, I, I still struggle with it. And what I have found is

00:16:26.180 I, I, I use a visualization a lot, first of all, to, to prep for when I know I'm going to be around

00:16:33.080 my family. Now let's just say, for instance, like I can truly relate to your whole issue with,

00:16:38.080 with the hard drive crashing. And there are some, some days in our business, we feel like,

00:16:43.180 like life is coming at us like a freight train. And we're like, and we're so overwhelmed by it.

00:16:47.620 And we're like, Holy crap. Like this is, it's insane right now. And then you got to go, boom, 0.86

00:16:52.920 you got to turn it on. Now you've got to be a father and you've got to let those frustrations

00:16:56.480 go. Which if you ask most men, that's the hardest part of their day right there is like, if, if they

00:17:01.000 feel there's mad chaos in our business lives or things are turned upside down, it's so hard to be

00:17:07.280 incredibly engaged because you're still thinking about like, okay, how am I going to solve this

00:17:10.500 problem? Like, how am I going to get, how am I going to get a computer, you know, and,

00:17:14.300 and record podcasts that I know I have to release by Tuesday. It's crazy, right? So what I like to do

00:17:21.700 is I like to, to visualize. And what I mean by that is my kids get home every day at four. Here's a,

00:17:27.720 and I work out of my house for the most part. And I can relate to your struggle because two weeks ago,

00:17:32.820 I was, I was about ready to pull my hair out with, with my computer and my world was kind of turned

00:17:37.640 upside down and I was frustrated and deadlines were going to be missed and everything else. Podcasts

00:17:42.180 aren't going to be released. And what I would do is I would at, at three 50 every day, my alarm would

00:17:49.720 sound on my phone, whatever I was doing, my kid, that meant I have 10 minutes before my kids come

00:17:55.340 home. And there's one thing that I've learned that kids will, will be incredibly impacted by the first

00:18:02.680 moment they see you when they come home or the first moment they see you when you come home. It sort

00:18:08.320 of sets the tone for how the rest of the evening is going to go. I mean, think about it for a second.

00:18:12.180 You know, when we come home from work and if our wives are like, Hey, what's going on? How are you?

00:18:15.400 And they walk past us. Or if our wives come up and just give us this great big hug and kiss, 1.00

00:18:19.140 we're like, Whoa, like what's going on? This is awesome. Right. And no matter what happens,

00:18:23.180 like the, the mood is definitely different. So what I, what I've done is I will set my alarm on my phone

00:18:28.780 for 10 minutes before they get home. Whatever I'm doing, it doesn't matter how urgent it is.

00:18:34.320 Shut the computer off. I shut my phone off. I will end a phone call and I will literally close my eyes

00:18:40.740 and I will visualize what am I going to be like when these kids walk through the door?

00:18:45.620 What questions am I going to ask them? Uh, as soon as they, as soon as they walk in and I visualize

00:18:51.780 this down to the detail of like, how am I going to give them a hug? How am I going to give them a

00:18:56.240 high five? How am I going to pick them up? Maybe like twist them around or do something kind of,

00:19:01.260 kind of goofy, you know, just to break. Cause who knows? I mean, chances are they might've had a

00:19:05.500 pretty, pretty bad day too. Right. But literally visualizing how exactly is that going to unfold

00:19:10.940 when these kids walk through the door? Uh, so visualization has been huge. And one quick side

00:19:16.040 note, I didn't really, I mean, I've done this for a while, but I didn't really realize how powerful

00:19:20.560 visualization is until this last fight in the UFC between, um, Conor McGregor and Eddie Alvarez and a

00:19:28.560 lot of the, uh, you know, that guy's like breaking all kinds of UFC records, Conor McGregor's.

00:19:32.660 Yeah. Yeah. He's like one of the best fighters. I actually loved getting him on the show, but

00:19:36.020 they, you know, they asked him, they're like, what do you, you're one of the most successful

00:19:40.540 fighters in the UFC that the UFC has ever seen. Like what's your claim to success? He said

00:19:45.920 visualization. And of course that's a very generic cliche sort of answer, but they asked him like,

00:19:51.260 well, what do you mean by that? He's like every single thing that has happened, everything I have

00:19:58.140 visualized to the nth degree. And I've put so much detail. He's like, like for instance, tonight,

00:20:03.060 I knew exactly how I was going to fight Eddie Alvarez. I knew exactly what type of punches I was

00:20:09.000 going to land. I visualized what his face would look like when I'd actually landed a punch. I knew

00:20:13.940 exactly what I was going to do in round two. I, I visualized winning. I had the fight one before I

00:20:19.180 even stepped in the ring and I knew exactly what it was going to be like, what it was going to feel

00:20:23.520 like, what it was going to look like everything. He literally, he, he claims all of his success on

00:20:29.400 visualization. So that's definitely one way is visualization. No, that's a great point. I mean,

00:20:35.520 this is obviously true. And I think there's a lot of skeptics about that because they think that it's

00:20:40.140 not enough just to dream about that. And I think that obviously, I mean, I think that's obvious.

00:20:43.740 We know that we need to take action. We need to implement, we need to execute. It's not just about

00:20:48.300 visualization, but it's really funny to hear people talk about negatively about that concept of

00:20:53.060 visualization when we know it works so well. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, because I think people,

00:20:57.560 they view visualization as like this sort of generic thing, but what I found, the more detail

00:21:03.680 that you put in it, like you actually imagine whatever it is, whatever situation, whether that

00:21:08.600 be a UFC fight or your kids coming home and how you're going to greet them, everything to the

00:21:14.380 finite detail of what that looks like, what your voice sounds like, how you're going to hug them,

00:21:19.000 how you're going to give them a high five, the questions you're going to ask them with even the,

00:21:22.440 even the voice tone, you're going to ask them in. I mean, all those things, because it's,

00:21:26.900 it's almost like the more detail you put in into it, your brain realizes like, this is what's

00:21:32.580 actually going to happen when my kids come home. Man, just a quick time out to tell you more about

00:21:38.260 the iron council. I'm not going to get into all the details, but I do want to let you know that we

00:21:41.540 have a tool available inside the iron council that will help you get crystal clear, crystal clear

00:21:47.400 about what you want to accomplish in 2017. Too many men I've seen give up on their goals and

00:21:52.040 I've done this in the past way too soon because if they set them at all, they have no plan to

00:21:57.020 actually make their objectives a reality. So that's where the 12 week battle plan comes into play.

00:22:01.840 This is going to help you identify four key objectives, just four that you want to accomplish

00:22:06.280 in the first quarter of 2017 alone. And the tactics, this is critical, the tactics to ensure

00:22:12.300 that you actually reach them. And then you're going to have the accountability of the rest of the men

00:22:16.040 inside the iron council to hold your feet to the fire in actually getting there and achieving what

00:22:20.180 you want to achieve. So you can learn more about the iron council and get signed up at

00:22:23.700 order of man.com slash iron council. And as you look around, I want you to consider what 2017

00:22:28.860 will look like, what it will actually look like if you accomplished your biggest goals with your

00:22:34.260 relationships and your health, your wealth and yourself. So I hope to see you inside. Now,

00:22:38.720 let me get back to my interview with Larry. I really liked this idea. We talk about margin a lot,

00:22:44.860 and I think that's what you're referring to here is just creating space, right? This is gaps in your

00:22:48.520 day. You're talking about 10 minute blocks in your day to be able to visualize this process so that

00:22:52.120 you can transition into something else more effectively. Talk to me about how a man would

00:22:57.200 avoid becoming overwhelmed with everything that he has on his plate, because it's very easy to fill

00:23:03.140 in those 10 minute blocks. Like, Oh, I've got 10 minutes. Let me just send this email or let me make

00:23:06.820 this phone call real quick, or let me just finish this document. How do you avoid stressing

00:23:11.020 yourself out due to overwhelm and taking on too much? This is a great question because I think

00:23:15.780 we all need help with this and me included. But what I've learned about stress is that

00:23:21.700 in our society, everyone wants to reduce stress. That's like the term. Well, if I just reduce my

00:23:30.020 stress, I'll be just fine. And in actuality, it's not the stress that's hindering our performance,

00:23:37.140 or it's not the stress that's overwhelming us. What's overwhelming us is our response to stress,

00:23:43.100 because stress is just what it is. It's stress, right? It's actually how we manage stress.

00:23:49.700 We're all overwhelmed. I mean, whether you're an employee or whether you're a business owner,

00:23:54.340 basically, we're problem solvers in the workplace. And sometimes there are fewer problems to solve

00:23:59.240 on some days rather than other days. And sometimes other days feel like we've got the world's problems

00:24:03.700 on our shoulders. I think when we can make the disconnect and the way I'm a very visual person,

00:24:10.920 I think you really have to find out what type of person are you and what keeps you sane. And what

00:24:16.360 keeps me sane is having something visual that I can look at every single day of when I'm going to do

00:24:21.480 something. Because when I know that I have tasks and to-dos and deadlines tend to overwhelm me.

00:24:28.160 So if I put those into my calendar of when I'm going to do those things, the feeling of stress

00:24:33.980 and overwhelm tends to, I wouldn't say it goes away, but it's a heck of a lot more manageable than if I

00:24:39.160 just tried to shoot in the dark and try to get a million, you know, 47 things done. And I don't,

00:24:44.940 I have no clue when I'm going to do them. And now I'm just trying to spin plates on swords. And

00:24:49.220 that's what really what it feels like. But when I actually visualize, when I write things down,

00:24:53.680 put them into my calendar. And then the other thing I do too, is how do you avoid overwhelm when

00:24:58.420 you're home? Because I think it's hard for us to make that switch from work mode to family mode.

00:25:03.920 I mean, literally on my calendar from five to nine, I will, I will literally put on my calendar

00:25:09.640 every single day. This is family time. And I even have to take that a step further. Sometimes

00:25:14.480 I went to the front row dad retreat that's hosted by, that was hosted by John Broman. I was one,

00:25:20.460 I was one of the speakers there and we learned so many amazing things. So many

00:25:23.660 tips and tricks and hacks on how to be a more present father. But we had one guy there in

00:25:28.080 particular, and I did a five minute Thursday podcast on it where he went out and bought a gun

00:25:32.140 safe, which I know like, dude, I, every time I look on social media, I see the Micklers getting a

00:25:36.600 new firearm. It's awesome. I love the arsenal over here, dude. I'm telling you guys got the arsenal,

00:25:41.640 man. It's so cool. But what he did was, is he went out and bought like a small gun safe

00:25:45.280 and he kept it on his counter. And what he did was, is when every time he came home,

00:25:49.600 he would put his phone, like literally made an announcement to his whole family. He's like,

00:25:53.220 Hey guys, like you guys are the most important people in my lives, you know, and you're the

00:25:58.400 most important people in my lives tonight. And he would literally take that phone, put it in the

00:26:02.820 safe and lock it. So the cool thing about that is not only was that a, a cue for him obviously to do

00:26:09.560 something different, but it's also teaching his family, teaching his kids like the importance of

00:26:13.740 presence. But he said when he did that, it was hard, you know, and it, and when I started doing it,

00:26:18.260 it was hard as well. But I got to tell you my stress level and my feeling of overwhelm greatly

00:26:23.500 reduced. I mean, it sounds kind of crazy, but, um, when you're with your kids and you don't feel

00:26:28.660 your phone buzz every 60 seconds, because every time you feel that buzz, you're like, Oh, I better

00:26:34.340 go check that. Or, Oh my gosh, I'm falling behind. Or that might, that might've been a text from work

00:26:38.300 or that might've been an email or that might've been a social media ping or might've been this or

00:26:41.540 might've been that it, there's something very calming. And when you're talking about how do we get

00:26:45.300 less overwhelmed, just put that device away. And like, when I mean, put it away, don't set it on

00:26:50.300 the counter and keep it on like out of sight, out of mind, turn it off. So you don't hear it,

00:26:54.620 see it or anything. And once that thing is gone, dude, it's amazing how present and how calming and

00:27:02.080 there's actually less overwhelmed because whatever it is, whether it's a text, an email, a call,

00:27:07.580 you know, a social media ping, trust me, it can wait until after 9 PM at night.

00:27:12.220 I mean, this is such a powerful tool, right? We have all this amazing technology. We have

00:27:16.660 computers and our phones and our devices and gidgets and gizmos and all of that stuff.

00:27:21.760 But yeah, I mean, it can do wonders, but it can also do some real damage when you're talking about

00:27:25.620 trying to connect with your family or anybody who's really that important to you and you want

00:27:28.880 to be present for them. I totally agree. I mean, I think about this, like if I was a single guy

00:27:33.400 and if I, I mean, I've been married 13 years and I think you've been married to Trish about the same

00:27:37.900 amount of time. And I think about this, like if I were on a date with a woman and if she was on her

00:27:44.080 phone, you know, the whole time, or even if we were out on a date for an hour and if she was on her

00:27:48.820 phone for even just 15 minutes, like what would I remember about the date? Like I, I probably remember

00:27:53.680 like, you know, feeling insignificant. I'd probably be feeling unimportant if she was on her mobile

00:27:58.880 device and not, not, not, you know, her, her mind wasn't in the date. And I think we, we tend to get

00:28:05.160 kind of careless again, me included when we're around our families. Cause we always think, Hey,

00:28:09.660 they're always be there. But I mean, those, you know, those lessons, man, the kids are learning,

00:28:13.040 like whether or not you think how important they are by, uh, by whether or not we're engaged.

00:28:17.420 Well, and they know too. I mean, my, my oldest son has said, dad, put your phone away because he

00:28:20.960 recognizes it's not like you're, you're being discreet. It's not like you're hiding what it is you're

00:28:24.940 doing. I mean, they recognize this and they see whether you're physically not present or

00:28:28.700 mentally or emotionally not present. They recognize that. Oh, they totally do. And I,

00:28:32.960 I mean, sometimes I don't think we give them enough credit. I mean, my kids, my oldest ones are

00:28:36.440 10 and eight. They do the same thing. They're like, dad, put your phone away. You know, it's dad at

00:28:40.640 seven. It's, it's not, you know, it's not screen time. So they'll remind me, you know, they'll keep

00:28:45.020 me whole. Uh, but yeah, you're right. I want to go back to something you said. You said you're a

00:28:50.000 visual learner. I want to go back to how you identified that and how we as men might be able to

00:28:54.220 identify how we learn best so we can implement this stuff in our lives. Yeah, I think,

00:28:58.420 I think most men are visual learners. I mean, most men are visual anyway. And I think the,

00:29:04.840 and this goes back even to the feeling of overwhelm. You know, I would always really reflect upon

00:29:10.740 how I feel when I do something and whatever that something is, whether that's, you know,

00:29:15.620 how do I feel after a workout or how do I feel when I go out for a walk through nature or how do I feel

00:29:20.040 when I'm literally physically, visually crossing something off my to-do list.

00:29:25.300 And just through practice and, and things that I've been doing for quite some time now is I like

00:29:32.400 to write things down because that I've reflected upon like, okay, after I wrote it down, like what

00:29:38.320 it, what's my mentality like, what's my emotions like, what do I feel like after I've written things

00:29:43.420 down, even if it is 47 things that I have to do within five days, there's a, there's a incredible

00:29:50.640 sense of calm that comes over me. So I, I know I'm visual because once I get it out of my head and

00:29:57.700 onto something where I can actually see it, that's, and, and then that feeling of like, okay, I'm more

00:30:03.620 calm. I'm less overwhelmed. I know I'm a visual learner and I know I'm very visual and I know to

00:30:08.680 get things down and out of my head makes me feel better. So I know that that's, that's a powerful

00:30:14.460 tool that I've, I've been able to recognize in my own self.

00:30:17.460 Yeah. I mean, I think you're coming back to just awareness and then being present and then having

00:30:20.980 the margin to be able to internalize and reflect upon that as well. So I can see why that's so

00:30:25.300 critical. Here's what I think a lot of guys get hung up on is they'll say to themselves, I've got

00:30:30.060 my business, I've got my wife, I've got my family, I've got these community services. Maybe I'm coaching

00:30:35.120 some teams. I think I'm just describing essentially you and me. I, you've got, you've got four boys,

00:30:39.720 right? I do. And I know you've got, I know you've got a girl in there. You've got four kids too.

00:30:44.420 Both of us are running two different businesses. Both of us are, I mean,

00:30:47.180 we've got pretty much the same kind of stuff going on. And I think the person that gets neglected

00:30:51.720 a lot of the time is ourselves. Talk to me about the importance of time for ourselves and how we

00:30:58.900 can make more of it and even maybe justify taking time for ourselves.

00:31:03.660 Yeah. It's funny you even ask this because this is, you're catching me on, on a, I, I pretty much

00:31:09.040 just went through probably three weeks of like severe overwhelm, you know, like, and I'm sitting

00:31:14.560 here talking about how to not be overwhelmed and some of the lessons I've learned as I've gone

00:31:18.020 through it.

00:31:19.100 Exactly. I mean, I think the best, best thing to do is experience these things and then obviously

00:31:24.100 share them, you know, share, share what's worked and what hasn't. And I, I had, you know, I, in 2016,

00:31:30.600 um, I, I gave up alcohol. So I haven't drank in, you know, almost, I haven't drank in 11 months and

00:31:37.080 it'll, it'll be a year here in like 40 some odd days. And, you know, when it comes to, like I used

00:31:42.420 to have, uh, you know, on the weekends I used to kind of let loose a little bit, you know, like that

00:31:46.780 was kind of like, um, what a good friend of mine called Yahoo time, which is like, you know, you just

00:31:51.960 sort of, it's like your downtime, you know, go out, you know, you go out with your friends or you,

00:31:55.180 you know, you grill out some food or you have, you have some friends over, you have a few drinks.

00:31:59.340 And that was kind of like, you switched it off. You know, you, you just switched it off.

00:32:03.400 What I've learned in 2016 is that, um, when it comes to myself and my own needs, and I'm not

00:32:11.220 saying like drinking was always a go-to, but that was always like a time where I would just be social

00:32:15.760 is what I'm really getting at. And that was like, kind of like my time, but I'd also worked out, um,

00:32:21.420 working out is a big thing to me. I actually will put that in my calendar of what time of day I'm

00:32:24.920 actually going to go do my, my, my training. Um, so it's really training and then like the

00:32:30.220 downtime with friends. But as of 2016, I'm, I'm X-ing out alcohol and that kind of thing. Like I,

00:32:35.920 and I didn't even do this on purpose, but I, I have barely have gone out like at all. Like I've

00:32:41.660 barely have gone out. Like my downtime is literally just hanging out with the family and I've been

00:32:45.060 pretty, pretty content with that. So when you ask like, what have I been doing for myself? Like I

00:32:51.240 would give you my answer like, Oh man, I've just been, been training. You know, I've been like

00:32:54.460 hitting the gym and getting as healthy as I can and, and doing the thing like to me, that's very,

00:32:59.120 very therapeutic. What I have found though, is that there's two types of time that we need for

00:33:06.440 ourselves. And that is we need time to invest in bettering ourselves, whether that's physically.

00:33:11.500 And I know I'm a big reader. You're a big reader. You know, I, I see you all the time posting

00:33:15.920 these amazing books of, of the things that you're reading to constantly improve, you know,

00:33:20.180 you're sharpen your skills, be a better man, be a better father, be a better business owner,

00:33:24.120 just be a better person. I just post the books that I buy. I've literally got 15 on my nightstand

00:33:28.880 right now. I'm reading. So. Oh my gosh. See, there you go. There you go. So like that would

00:33:34.160 be something to be like, okay, Ryan's time is reading. You know, I like to read. That's like my

00:33:38.420 time. And then of course, being at the gym, that's my time. I don't have to answer to anybody.

00:33:42.680 I was up to this point several weeks ago where I'm like, dude, I just feel so overwhelmed. Like I'm so

00:33:47.400 like, there's a lot going on. Like how do I, how do I, how do I get over this feeling? And of course,

00:33:52.540 it's been a lot of the things that we just talked about, you know, over the past, you know, 20,

00:33:55.760 30 minutes, but also what I have found, this would be a really good hack for you, for your

00:33:59.840 listeners. And it's something that my community has learned too, is I had very direct conversations

00:34:04.080 with guys that I feel are advisors in my life. And I'm like, you know, where, where am I missing

00:34:08.920 this? And this is what they told me. They're like, what are you doing for yourself? I was like,

00:34:12.500 well, you know, I read and I go to the gym and they're like, yeah, but what do you read? And I'm like,

00:34:16.840 well, I read, you know, I read self-improvement books. You know, that's, that's what I like to

00:34:20.000 read. Right now I'm reading a Seth Godin book or I go to the gym and they're like, well, here's the

00:34:24.640 thing, man. Like there's two types of time that we invest in ourself. One, one piece of time is

00:34:30.640 investing in ourselves to be a better person. The other time is strictly downtime or like Yahoo time

00:34:36.220 or like worthless time. And I was like, well, that sounds like a waste of time to me. And they're

00:34:40.860 like, well, it's, it really isn't. So here's the thing. When you're going to the gym and that's

00:34:46.260 like your time, quote unquote, your time, you're still expending a ton of energy out,

00:34:51.520 right? You're still, you're, so you're expending energy in the workplace, expending energy in the

00:34:56.180 GDP, expending energy in the gym. And then you're expending energy when you're around your family

00:35:00.880 because you're giving to those around you. You're not going out with your friends anymore. So it's

00:35:04.540 not like you have like this kind of party time or Yahoo time or whatever you want to call it.

00:35:08.140 And so on the weekends, you're still doing these things that are energy outputs. And the question

00:35:15.240 the guys asked me like, dude, when was the last time you went to go see a movie like with your

00:35:18.960 kids? And I'm like, man, it's been a while. Or when was the last time you read like a fiction book,

00:35:23.320 you know, a worthless book, you know, that didn't give you like more life skills. And I'm like,

00:35:28.000 I can't even remember when that happened. Like I never, I think the last worthless book I wrote,

00:35:32.680 you know, read was Revenge of the Sith before the movie came out, you know, like 11 years ago or

00:35:38.440 whatever it was. So I really found that in order to avoid overwhelm and not only invest time in

00:35:43.940 yourself, you've got to invest time in yourself to be a better person, but you also need downtime,

00:35:47.420 like actual downtime to where like you just take like, even if it's five minutes a day of,

00:35:53.560 you know, meditation or whether that's prayer or whether that's reading a book, that's not going

00:35:58.600 to make you a better man, but just simply reading a book to just grab a little bit of an

00:36:02.640 escape away from the grind. Or even getting out with your wife and not having the kids around

00:36:08.740 stuff like that, where it's actual downtime. But those are the two things that I've found.

00:36:13.080 So it's actual investing time in ourselves, time for us, but also downtime is a big one.

00:36:18.360 Yeah. Yeah. It makes a ton of sense. Well, speaking of time, we're winding down on time,

00:36:21.980 Larry. I want to ask you a couple of questions as we do. I could talk about this stuff all day. I mean,

00:36:25.560 it's critical. And I know this is a big gap in a lot of guys' lives. And I think we can be more

00:36:29.180 productive if we find time for ourselves, we create that margin and we strive to give our

00:36:36.200 attention to our family, our businesses, all that we can. So let me ask you these couples of

00:36:40.140 questions as we wind down. The first one is, and I've heard you answer this before because you've

00:36:44.080 been on the podcast before, but what does it mean to be a man?

00:36:47.000 I think what it means to be a man is just to be the best person that you can possibly be. I think the

00:36:53.920 the more tools and resources that we invest in to become just the best version of ourselves,

00:36:58.900 that's how we become a better man. Yeah, totally agree. All right,

00:37:02.320 brother. I appreciate you being on. I appreciate you taking your time, man. The work that you're

00:37:06.220 doing is just incredible. You and I have been friends for what a year, year and a half now,

00:37:09.620 and just to see what you guys are doing and how, how big and helpful you've been in my life and the

00:37:13.300 things that you're teaching. I really appreciate you for, uh, for showing up the way that you have.

00:37:17.380 Tell us how we can connect with you if we want to learn a little bit more about the work you're

00:37:19.920 doing. Yeah. Likewise, man. I mean, uh, yeah, we have been friends for about a year and a half

00:37:24.460 and it's, it's been awesome. I love the fact that you and I can, can, uh, always lean on each other

00:37:29.540 and give each other real time feedback about what we're seeing in our personalized business lives.

00:37:34.380 It's been awesome. Yeah. But the best way to connect with me is, uh, just good dad project.com.

00:37:39.020 That's where you can find all of our podcasts and resources. We've got a bunch of free resources

00:37:43.240 there. We also have a, uh, a dad edge community on Facebook. That's, that's pretty interactive.

00:37:47.500 Uh, we have about 3,200 guys on that page and that's, that's growing like wildfire. But,

00:37:52.320 um, yeah. And you can also find me on social media, um, on Twitter, good dad project and

00:37:56.860 Instagram, good dad project as well. Right on, man. We'll make sure we link all

00:38:00.000 that up in the show notes. Guys, if you're a dad, if you're a man, you want to be better.

00:38:02.720 This is a place is another great resource in addition to what we're doing. So go check it out.

00:38:06.320 Larry, again, appreciate you, brother. Appreciate you coming on on the short notice. And, uh,

00:38:09.560 I know the guys listening today are going to get a ton of value from it.

00:38:12.260 Oh, my pleasure, man. Thanks again.

00:38:13.500 There you have it guys. Mr. Larry Hagner imparting some of his wisdom into how to

00:38:18.120 create more balance, margin, and fulfillment in your life. If you've received guys any value from

00:38:23.260 this show whatsoever, I do ask that you leave us an iTunes rating and review. This will let me know

00:38:28.340 that you're actually enjoying this show, that you're actually here and enjoying what you're

00:38:31.460 listening to. And then it'll also help to get the word out about what we're doing here at the

00:38:35.200 order of man. So here's where you go from here. Now guys, three things. First, if you want the show

00:38:39.400 notes, go to order of man.com slash zero eight eight. Second, if you want to join the discussion

00:38:44.380 on this topic and any other topic that's important to us as men, go to facebook.com slash groups

00:38:49.320 slash order of man. And third, if you're a man who wants to take action and line yourself up for the

00:38:55.260 best year of your life, then join us inside the iron council at order of man.com slash iron

00:39:00.740 council guys. I look forward to talking to you on Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then

00:39:04.740 take action and become the man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man

00:39:09.700 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:39:14.820 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - November 22, 2016

088： Work⧸Life Balance, Fact or Fiction？ with Larry Hagner

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