099： Building a Business on the Side ｜ Josh Bauerle
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Summary
In this episode, Josh Bowerly, CPA joins me to talk about the benefits of starting your own business, the common pitfalls and mistakes young entrepreneurs make, and why every man should at least consider starting a business on the side.
Transcript
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Entrepreneurship is such a hot topic right now. In fact, it is a buzzword that gets tossed around
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quite carelessly, but it's something every man should at least consider. Not only does
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entrepreneurship provide opportunities for additional income, but there are a ton of
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other benefits as well. Today, Josh Bowerly, the CPA on fire, joins me to talk about what those
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benefits are, the common pitfalls and mistakes young entrepreneurs make, where anyone considering
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launching a business should start, and why every man should at least consider building a business
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on the side. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly
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chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You
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are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is
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who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler,
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and I am the host and the founder of Order of Man. I've got to tell you, it has been so exciting to
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see the growth that we've had in the podcast over the past month or so. I appreciate that you are
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here. I appreciate you sharing the message of Order of Man. I appreciate your iTunes reviews,
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but most importantly, I appreciate every single day the opportunity to share a message with you
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that literally has the power to transform your life. It certainly has for me. If you've been around
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for a while, you know what this is all about here, but if you're new, my goal each and every week is to
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bring you the most successful men on the planet. We extract their hard fought and hard earned lessons
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and we bring all of those lessons straight to you so you can be a better man, a better father,
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a better husband, a better business owner, community leader, a better man. And we don't
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pull any punches. We get right into the show because you have things to do. I've got things
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to take care of. And so we just get right into it. I do want to give you a couple of quick
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resources before I get much further into it. If you are interested in following up on some of the
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topics and the discussion that we have today, I make the show notes available for every single
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show for this show. They can be found at orderofman.com slash zero nine nine. And also make
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sure that you join our Facebook group. I think we've got just under 20,000 men. We're growing by
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about 12 to 1500 men each and every week. And we are having some serious and some incredible
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discussions about what it means to be a man. And third, and this is something I don't talk a lot
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about only twice every single year. We have got our second live event, the uprising, and it's
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coming up April 27th through the 30th of this year, 2017. And I want you to know all about what
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this is about. I'm going to give you some more details during the break, but for now, know you
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can get the details and watch some incredible footage from last year's event at orderofman.com
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slash uprising spots are filling up quick. I think we've got about six spots left. So if you are
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interested, you need to make sure you jump on it quick. Again, you can do that at orderofman.com
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slash uprising. Gentlemen, I am honored today to be introducing you to my friend and guest,
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Mr. Josh Bowerly, the CPA on fire. I'll be honest with you. I was a little hesitant
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about bringing a CPA on the show because they're notorious for being a little dry to say the least,
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but I think you're going to hear in a minute that Josh is anything but dry. He's got a passion
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for helping entrepreneurs start, grow, and maximize their businesses through some very simple
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and effective strategies. In fact, some of the strategies that he's going to share with you today
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are the exact strategies that have allowed him to start his own business in 2012 and team up with
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some podcasting powerhouses like John Lee Dumas with entrepreneur on fire. And you're going to
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get a ton from this interview because we don't just talk theory and tax code and all the stuff
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that's boring. We talk about real tips, real tactics and tricks that you can use to reap all
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the benefits of starting your own business. Josh, what's up brother? Thanks for joining me on the show
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today. Hey, thanks for having me. So you're a CPA. I think a lot of people are probably going to think,
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uh-oh, this is going to be a dry conversation. But based on our conversation and our friendship
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we've been able to develop over the last little bit, I don't think that's going to be the case.
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I'm excited to talk with you. Yeah, we can do a little more than taxes here. Which is the first
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time I've ever said I'm excited to talk with a CPA, by the way. Right. I just heard on the radio the
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other day that we're the only people that people fear more than dentists. Oh yeah, I'm sure.
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I'm sure. Get that going for me. Well, between that and me having the background of a financial
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advisor, I know some of this stuff can get really dry. But today we're going to talk not so much
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about taxes, but I wanted to talk with you about entrepreneurship. I wanted to talk with you about
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starting businesses as a way to be more fulfilled, but also the strategy side of it is being able to
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save money and taxes and the financial resources that come when you're starting a business. Is this
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something that you think everybody should look into? Is there a place for everybody to own some sort
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of business? Yeah. So I guess it depends on how you look at it because not everybody should be an
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entrepreneur, right? Because as you know, there's a lot of things that go with it. There's a lot of
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responsibility that goes with it and you're on your own. So maybe not full-blown entrepreneur,
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but I do think everyone should be creating some type of way to earn extra revenue. Maybe you call it a
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side hustle where you're just moonlighting in something, doing something on the side,
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finding a passion that you're turning into a way to make money. So maybe you don't just quit your job
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and go open up shop, but maybe you find a way to supplement your income with a side project,
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a side hustle. And that's really interesting that you say that because I think there's this,
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I think there's two schools of thought. The one thought says, just go all in, dive in,
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don't even look back, burn the boats, all that stuff. And then the other camp that says,
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no, let's do this prudently. Let's be strategic about the way that we go about this,
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which is frankly the way that I started Order of Man. So how does somebody even begin to maybe
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explore what they should be looking into as far as a quote unquote side hustle or a business on the
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side? Yeah. So, I mean, if you're interested in doing this, there's never been a greater time in
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our country or the world's history to open a business or a side business or whatever you want
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to call it because of the internet, right? I mean, Order of Man is a perfect example. If you wanted to
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create a company based around educating men 30 years ago, I mean, what were your options?
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Maybe you write a book and people buy it. Maybe you try to sell a course on an infomercial. I mean,
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there was no way to do it, right? Now, no matter what your interest is, I can guarantee you there's
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a way to make money off of that interest. I have clients making six figures and even beyond six
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figures on things you would never imagine people making money on. I have a guy that's doing over a
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million dollars a year. He liked going to Japan. So, now all of a sudden, he created a company that
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shows people how to set up better vacations to Japan, right? So, anything that you want to do,
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you can make money off that. It's just finding a way to create the revenue. And I think the first
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thing you have to do there is find a way to build an audience, right? Because Order of Man is a perfect
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example. You can talk about manliness and being a better man all you want, but if no one wants to
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listen to you, then you have no way of making revenue off that, right? Sure.
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Sure. But now you create a podcast and people start listening to that podcast. Then you create
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a Facebook group and then people say, I want to be a part of this Facebook group. And you have,
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what, 12,000, 13,000 members on there. Don't short us. We've got 15,000.
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I'm sorry. Last I checked, I mean, that was just a few weeks ago. So, it's growing rapidly.
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But no, but you don't need all 15,000 people to pay you money, right? You need a small portion of that to
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say, I'm even more interested than the free resources you have. I want to pay you for the advanced
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stuff. So, now people start joining the Iron Council and paying monthly for that.
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Maybe you have sponsorships on your podcast for people that want access to your audience.
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So, if you can build an audience around something you're passionate about,
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your ways of making revenue off that audience are pretty much endless.
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Yeah. Yeah. And I wholeheartedly agree. And what's really interesting is that there's a lot
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of companies out there and ideas and additional ways to generate revenue that aren't what I would
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even call, quote unquote, real. They're not tangible products where you have overhead and inventory
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and all of the other nightmare that comes with an actual storefront. I'm not saying that's a bad
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thing. I'm just saying like you did, is the barrier to entry is so low for simply a thought
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that you might have or a way to make people's lives just a little bit better.
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Yeah, exactly. And I mean, my business is a perfect example of that. I'm a CPA. I have a tax practice.
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30 years ago, I have to go run an office space. I have to hire a secretary. I have to get phones and
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equipment and all this stuff. Instead, now I do it. I set up a home office. I buy a computer
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and I work with people remotely. So, if it's a good idea and it takes off, great. If it doesn't
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take off, I'm pretty much out nothing. So, like you said, the barriers to entry, they're almost
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non-existent. The risk's gone down. The rewards have gone up. It's a no-brainer for people to find
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something to try and make money off of in this current economy.
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You know, what's really interesting is my wife, the other day, our son was our youngest son. He's
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eight months old. He wasn't feeling so well. And she had heard about this service where you can
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literally text into a doctor, a healthcare provider, and say, these are the symptoms. And through text,
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they will diagnose and prescribe. So, even the healthcare industry, which is notorious for having
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large overhead, physical spaces, and just the complexity that comes with healthcare, is moving to
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this digital society where we don't necessarily need a storefront. We don't necessarily need to
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come in and spend the time and energy and resources in doing that. So, it is an incredible time.
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Yeah, exactly. And the people who aren't adapting to that are the people that are going to die.
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The people that think, oh, I'm a CPA. The people need to come see me face-to-face.
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Yeah, it's still working for now. But more and more, I'm getting people solely because they're tired
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of having to drive to their CPA's office. I mean, last year, I think I had like five people that
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found me by Googling a CPA willing to work over Skype. So, if you're not willing to adjust to
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this and you currently own a business, you're going to eventually go under because this is the
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Right. What are some crazy ways that maybe some of your clients are making money? Some either crazy
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or very creative ways that you wouldn't normally think of? And I'm really curious about that because
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I think this is going to help spark some ideas for anybody who might be listening.
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Yeah. So, what's cool is, I think Success Magazine, I don't know if you read that,
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but they're calling it the you economy now, where basically you build a business around you. You are
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the brand. No matter what services you offer or products you sell, you're the brand. Okay. So,
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there's people that basically just decide that they create little crafts that their friends like.
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So, now they go set up an Etsy shop and now they're selling it to people all over the world and
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All right. There's people who find a product that they like that someone else makes and they
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really like it, but no one else really knows about it. So, now they're finding it in China for 99
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cents, ordering 10,000 units and selling it on Amazon and making six figures. So, it truly is
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endless, the ways that you can do this and the vehicles you have to make it happen. You don't have
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to kind of go all in on it like you had to in the past. You can test it out. You can say,
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okay, I'm making these. My friends say they like it. I'm going to go, I'm going to make 10 of them
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and try and sell it on Etsy and see what happens and expand it from there. But yeah, I mean,
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specific examples. I always liked the one I talked about with the Japan thing because the dude likes
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traveling to Japan and then decided to make a business teaching other people. A lot of people
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in the kind of success avenue, just I have a client called, her business called Feel Free to Prosper.
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And she just basically teaches other people how to prosper in their life. It's similar to Order of
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Man where she's just going to say, hey, you can be living a better life. Here's how to do it. And
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she's just got courses and books. And I mean, I could go on and on that the possibilities of doing
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this are endless right now. It's a crazy time to be living in almost.
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Yeah, I've got two friends. One of them really enjoys hunting. And we were looking at a business
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opportunity for him for some tax purposes, which I think we'll get into the conversation a little bit
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later. And so now he goes on his hunting trips, but every other hunting trip, he's actually inviting
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somebody else and he does paid guided tours or paid guided hunting trips. Another one is really
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big into hiking all over Utah, which is where I live. And what he'll do now is he'll go explore
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trails and he'll try all these trails. And then on his website, he'll come back, he'll review the trail,
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what you need, the difficulty, the time, all of that stuff. And then he sells the information to
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those who want to go hiking. So it's like you said, it's just incredible. It's fascinating to me.
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Yeah. And the thing is, if you like doing something, that means there's other people
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that like it. And people might think, oh, well, I'm not the best hunter in the world. So who's
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going to pay me to teach them how to hunt? People who aren't as good as you or don't know the area
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that you know, like you don't have to be the world renowned hunter to have other people pay you to
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teach you or teach them or guide them on how to do it. You just have to be better than some people
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or know something that some people don't know. And you have an audience that's willing to pay
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you for it. Yeah. I think people get in the misconception that they need to be better than
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the 7 billion people on the planet. And so they never start rather than, hey, I just need a hundred
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people who want to learn from what I've learned. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure when you started Order of
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Man, you probably didn't say I'm the manliest man in the world and I need to teach. I mean,
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maybe you do have the beard for it. So this is true. This is true. No, I certainly didn't say
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that. In fact, a lot of what went through my mind was who am I to tell other guys how
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to be better men when this is something I struggle with so much in my life?
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Exactly. It places some doubt and you got to work through that. But if you can teach people,
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look, some of it, some people are starting businesses, which is exactly what I think
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Order of Man kind of was for you. They're bringing people on the journey with them.
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So you're saying, I want to be a better man. Here's how I'm doing it. Come on the journey with
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me. It's not necessarily you standing up saying, hey, I'm a great man. Let me tell you how I got here.
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Sure, sure. Well, I'm really curious about because I know you've got some extensive knowledge in this
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just through your clients and the people that you're working with where the best place to start
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is, because I think there's a lot of guys who are probably listening to this right now
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who might have an idea or a thought or an insight or just this little tiny inspiration of something
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they want to do. And they're like, now what? Now what do I do? So what do you see your clients doing
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Yeah. So the biggest thing is, and I'll keep going back to this, is it's finding an audience.
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Okay. So it's finding, getting a way to create content and putting it in front of people.
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So maybe it's a blog, maybe it's a podcast, maybe it's YouTube videos. Hopefully it's all
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of the above. It's creating a Facebook group. It's finding something that people can see what
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you have to offer. Right. And it's probably starting by giving away all of that for free.
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Right. So you have a blog and you're just spitting out all the information that you have and people
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are reading it. You're creating YouTube videos and telling them what you know. And then once you
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start to build an audience, you're creating a Facebook group maybe and inviting them on there.
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It's really just growing that audience. And if you want to grow that audience faster,
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the best thing you can do is have access to other people's audience. Okay. So for me,
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when I, early on, when I started, no one knew who I was. I reached out to Don, John Dumas of
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Entrepreneur on Fire. He ends up needing a CPA. He likes what I did for him and he brings me on his
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podcast. Now I have millions of people listening to what I have to say, even though it's not my
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audience. And a portion of that becomes my audience and becomes my clients. So to do that,
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maybe you start by asking influential people if you can guest post for them. Maybe this is a great,
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this is exactly how a portion of how I've built my business is being interviewed on other podcasts.
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Right. So if you have value to offer, people of influence will want to share your value with
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their audience. And that's a great place to start.
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Yeah. I mean, you're, you're obviously living this because not only your story with John Lee Dumas,
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but in addition, you, you know, you reached out, you sent a message, Hey, I'd like to come on the
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show. Here's what I'd like to talk about. And here we are today having this conversation because you
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were willing to put it out there. Right. Exactly. And the key is getting on that first one,
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right? Because maybe if I come to you and I've never been on any of these before, you're a little
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hesitant. But if I can say, Hey, I've been on Entrepreneur on Fire. I've been on the amazing
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seller, blah, blah, blah. The more that you build there, the more that people are going to trust that
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they, that you'll have value to their audience. So it's really just reaching out to people over and
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over. And trust me, a lot of people are going to say no, especially at first. So you got to be
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ready to accept that rejection. But once you get someone to say yes, and you will eventually get
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someone to say yes, it just snowballs from there. Well, on the other side of it too, is I think a lot
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of people with their ideas aren't going to have it maybe as difficult as it was even for you getting
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started because you're talking about taxes. And so people jump to this conclusion of like, Oh,
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I don't want to talk. Right. I mean, it's the, it's the start of the conversation we had.
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And yet here you are talking about something that yes, is valuable, but doing it in a way
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that's exciting and engaging to other people as well. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's a key
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too, is finding a way to differentiate yourself from the other people in your industry. All right.
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So if I was just on here saying, all right, everybody has to pay their taxes. If you make
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this much, you fall in this bracket. No one's going to want to have me on. Sure. But if you can,
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if you can make it interesting, maybe you can say, look, this is why you should start a business
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because you get X, Y, and Z tax breaks. And if you can make it interesting people, no matter what
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the topic is, people will want to hear what you have to say. So let's get tactical on some of this
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stuff, because I think, again, people have ideas are ready to go. And we can talk till we're blue
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in the face about how to get started. But I think at the end of the day, you just got to take the first
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step. And I think that's what you're, what you're saying here. At what point should you consider
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turning this into a quote unquote, real business by whether that's an incorporation or LLC?
00:17:04.260
Well, what point do you start thinking about this stuff? And why would you even think about that?
00:17:09.000
Yeah. And it's interesting because I see a lot of CPAs or attorneys say the very first thing you
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have to do is get this set up properly. And I don't necessarily agree with that because I think
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people get, get in their own way and say, all right, I can't start my business until I have my
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taxes lined up and I have my entity set up. And they just, it's just a stall tactic to not actually
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get started in what matters. Well, and of course too, you know, I got to think that CPAs have a
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vested interest in you, you know, taking care of that stuff, right? Exactly. Yeah. Fair point.
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So yeah, I don't necessarily agree with that. I say, get the business started, get it off the
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ground, prove to yourself that you're going to make money in this, and then worry about the taxes,
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worry about the legal structure. Okay. So if you're just getting started, I would just start
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with what they call a sole proprietor, right? Meaning you don't file any paperwork with the
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state. You don't do anything with the IRS. You and your business are just operating as one in the
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same, right? Once you start making money, once you start having people pay for your products or
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services, then maybe you go into forming an LLC, which is just stands for limited liability company.
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And all that's going to basically do is provide a wall between you and your business. Okay. So
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if the order of man tells someone that they should do something and they're a screw up and they screw
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it up and they try to sue you for it, they can't sue Ryan Michler. They can only sue order of man.
00:18:20.600
I wish he wouldn't have said that because that opens the door and knock on wood, but that has not
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happened yet. To be fair, I haven't heard of a podcast or it's happened to you and you're in a
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low risk business. But just as an example, it separates you from the business, right?
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Right. So that's what you want to start considering. Contrary to popular belief,
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there's not any tax breaks for forming an LLC. Right. Okay. You're still what they call a
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pass-through entity. Everything still runs on your personal tax return. Okay. So it's only legal
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protection. In my opinion, once you start hitting around $30,000 per year in net income,
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now it's the time you want to start looking at tax strategies. Now you want to say, okay,
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maybe my LLC should be taxed as an S corporation. Maybe I need to look at forming a corporation,
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things like that. But to be honest, if you're just getting started, if you're just starting to
00:19:07.300
bring in revenue, you're not even bringing it in yet, don't worry about this stuff. Get the
00:19:10.720
business going, start making money, and then go talk to an expert and figure out what entity you
00:19:16.060
should be in, how you should be setting up taxes and things like that.
00:19:18.660
Right. Yeah. And I think that's the point where we're at. Not I think. That's the point we're at
00:19:22.220
right now is that we are an S corporation, or maybe I said that backwards, an LLC. Taxes and
00:19:27.220
S corp, I believe, is the correct term. Is that right?
00:19:30.020
Yep. Exactly. And this is where you want to be careful, especially as an online business,
00:19:34.320
I'll say who you talk to here. Because a lot of the traditional CPAs that are used to
00:19:38.220
brick and mortar businesses, construction companies, things like that, they'll tell you,
00:19:42.300
oh, you don't even want to worry about an S corp until $100,000, $200,000 in income.
00:19:46.500
For online businesses now, and there's several reasons why this is true that'll get boring and won't get
00:19:51.260
into. But I say $30,000. If you're showing that in profits, meaning after your expenses,
00:19:57.580
now you want to start looking at strategies like that being taxed as an S corporation.
00:20:03.080
Gentlemen, I am so stoked to tell you about our live event being held April 27th through the 30th
00:20:08.080
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00:20:11.760
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00:20:16.120
So you're going to have to act quick as of this recording, because we have six spots left and we're
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We'll be shooting tactical scenarios, workouts, instruction from athletes. We've got a Navy
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quickly because we are going to sell out soon. Now let's get back to the interview with Josh.
00:21:20.000
Who should you consider having on your team? I look at a financial advisor, which is my background.
00:21:25.840
I look at a CPA as people that you should consider having on your team at a certain point. I don't
00:21:29.760
think you need it immediately, but who should be on your team and then how soon should you look at
00:21:34.420
bringing these guys on? Yeah. So CPA, great one. Financial advisor, great one. Attorney,
00:21:39.760
I would at least have one that I knew I could contact if something arose. I don't think you
00:21:44.420
have to have one on retainer or anything like that when you're first starting. But those are always
00:21:48.600
the three big ones that a business is going to eventually need. An attorney, a CPA, and a
00:21:53.420
financial planner. On top of your CPA, maybe you eventually get to a place where you want a
00:21:58.100
bookkeeper. To be honest, this is the biggest shortcoming that I see small businesses making is
00:22:04.240
they have no bookkeeping whatsoever in place. So they come to someone like me at tax time and say,
00:22:08.840
oh, here's my box of receipts. Go ahead and prepare my taxes for me.
00:22:12.620
And not quite the way it works. Regardless of how big you are, that's something you do need to be
00:22:17.480
doing from day one is monitoring your income and expenses for several reasons. First of all,
00:22:22.720
because when you come see someone like me, we're going to want to see your income and then your
00:22:27.420
expenses broken down into categories. But second of all, because how can you manage your business if
00:22:32.820
you don't know what's going on? I mean, you wouldn't believe how many people come to me at the end of
00:22:36.300
the year. And I'm like, well, how did this year go? And I think it went pretty good. And then we go
00:22:41.120
and start looking at their numbers and they actually lost money for the year.
00:22:45.380
Yeah. And it seems to be a major weakness of entrepreneurs. So I would say one of two things.
00:22:50.620
You need to know yourself and you either have to do this yourself or you have to outsource it and
00:22:55.500
find a bookkeeper that's going to do this for you. And again, this is something that you should be
00:22:59.640
doing from day one, either doing it yourself or outsourcing it. And outsourcing it,
00:23:03.300
you can, there's a company called Bench. If you're a small business, you can get them for
00:23:06.460
as low as 135 bucks a month where they'll just take all the expenses hitting your business and
00:23:10.820
put it into a nice, neat profit and loss statement for you.
00:23:13.520
And the one that I've used in the past was, I think, QuickBooks I've used in the past.
00:23:18.100
Yeah, absolutely. QuickBooks. So the one thing I'll say, if you're going to do it yourself,
00:23:21.840
maybe you can start out with a spreadsheet, but I would definitely eventually switch to some type of
00:23:26.240
accounting software like QuickBooks. The one recommendation I'll make is make it a cloud-based
00:23:30.360
system. People that are still using QuickBooks desktop, it's going to be dead in a few years.
00:23:35.520
Okay. So go with QuickBooks online, go with something like Xero, Xero. There's even free
00:23:40.840
ones out there like GoDaddy has their own free accounting software. Wave accounting is free.
00:23:48.000
So what it's going to do is it's actually pretty cool. It'll sync up right up with your business
00:23:51.780
accounts, right? So your bank accounts, your credit cards, whatever it is. And every time a transaction
00:23:55.560
hits, it's going to automatically import it. So all you have to do is go in there and code what
00:23:59.340
it's for. So if you go to Walmart and buy a $200 printer, it's going to show up $200 spent at Walmart.
00:24:04.240
You just log in and say, this is for office expenses and you're done. Bookkeeping is done
00:24:08.120
for that item. Yeah, I like that. That makes it really convenient. So outside of the tax
00:24:13.340
ramifications and benefits and the legal protection, what are the other benefits of
00:24:17.880
not only incorporating or doing an LLC, but even just starting a business?
00:24:23.460
Yeah. So, and this kind of goes back to tax benefits, but the coolest part about starting a
00:24:28.340
business to me when it comes to taxes is all these personal expenses in your life are now
00:24:32.760
probably becoming tax deduction. Okay. So like, for instance, I'm sure you had a cell phone well
00:24:37.840
before you started to order a man, right? Now you're using a cell phone in your business and
00:24:42.180
it's a business deduction. Obviously your internet is used in your business. We're conducting this
00:24:46.660
interview via your internet, right? So now your internet that I'm sure you use for personal
00:24:51.420
reasons as well as a business deduction. So what's, and you got to keep in mind the tax code
00:24:56.720
was written to benefit entrepreneurs. So there's, it's going to open up a whole new world of tax
00:25:01.420
deductions for you that you didn't have as an employee. So it takes some planning. So for instance,
00:25:06.400
a lot of my clients, one of the, one of the biggest strategies we'll do is when they go on
00:25:09.860
vacations, we're going to plan it around conferences they can attend for their business. And now a portion
00:25:13.920
of their family vacation is a tax deduction. Okay. So let's say that me and my family had been
00:25:20.180
planning a vacation somewhere out West and we decided to go to Utah, right? And I know that you're
00:25:25.660
going to be happen to have a, what do you call them? The uprisings going on, right? Sure. So I'm
00:25:30.440
going to say, okay, we're going to go on a seven day vacation. I'm going to spend three of it at this
00:25:35.420
uprising. And now maybe 30 to 40% of this vacation is a tax deduction. This vacation that we're going
00:25:40.620
to take anyways. Yeah. So it's, it takes, takes planning, but you can make it happen.
00:25:45.360
So I've got a, then I've got a personal question. And so you can send me the bill for this later,
00:25:49.980
since I'm consulting you as a CPA at this point, what about, so, so two of my biggest expenses are
00:25:55.800
my firearms and my books. And I'm curious if legally I can write off my firearms, if I were
00:26:03.660
to do like a firearms review, for example, and if I could write off books as education or research.
00:26:10.920
Yeah. Good question. So this is the standard that we always use when it comes to whether
00:26:14.640
something is a tax deduction or not. Can you prove that buying, purchasing that expense
00:26:19.460
increased the bottom line of your business? Meaning did it bring in more revenue or did it
00:26:23.820
decrease your expenses somehow? Right? So for me, the books question is easy, right? Anytime you're
00:26:28.620
buying a book that's business related in any way, or in your case related to manliness or anything that
00:26:34.440
you can apply to the business, easy tax deduction, no questions asked. Sure. The firearms, that's a
00:26:39.280
little, that one gets interesting because typically I would say for most people know that
00:26:44.380
it's going to be tough to, to make that a business deduction. In your case, if you're going to be
00:26:48.940
setting up some type of review on them and, and, and people that are part of order of man, your
00:26:53.420
audience are going to look to those reviews and putting those reviews on there increases your
00:26:57.820
audience, which in turn increases your bottom line. Then I would say all or a portion of that
00:27:02.420
would become tax deductible. Is it now help me understand this and wrap my head around this
00:27:07.340
because my understanding, and maybe I'm incorrect, which is why we're having this conversation
00:27:11.280
is that it doesn't have to necessarily make you money, but there has to be a, and I'm not using
00:27:19.560
the term correctly, but a reasonable desire or the ability or that you genuinely are trying to turn
00:27:24.780
this business into a profit. Yeah, exactly. So the term that the IRS uses, whether something can be a
00:27:30.160
business expense or not is ordinary and necessary. Okay. Okay. Which makes it confusing because off,
00:27:36.240
when you first think about it, maybe you think, okay, buying a gun is not ordinary or necessary for a
00:27:40.880
business. I don't know. I kind of think it is, but I can go with what you're saying. Exactly though.
00:27:45.280
But in your case, it is. Okay. So it's so industry specific. It's so specific to your industry,
00:27:52.080
right? So if a plumber wants to go buy guns, yeah, maybe we can say it's for security, but even that's
00:27:58.520
probably a stretch. So he's probably not going to be able to deduct the cost of those guns. Your case,
00:28:03.160
people may come to you for the specific purpose of gun reviews. So now we can directly say that this is a
00:28:09.620
part of your business and it's tax deductible. And your question of whether, when does it have
00:28:15.620
to show a profit? I mean, the thing is, it doesn't have to directly show a profit. So you don't have
00:28:20.640
to be charging for those gun reviews to be able to deduct that. Instead, we just have to show, okay,
00:28:25.880
these gun reviews, yeah, they didn't directly bring in money, but 200 people came to the website because
00:28:31.020
these gun reviews were on there. And we estimate that 10% of everyone that comes to the website becomes a
00:28:37.200
paying client. So this is, we increase the business by this much. You don't have to, I mean, I'm not
00:28:43.300
telling you to sit there and analyze everything to the T like that. Chances are the IRS is never
00:28:47.320
going to question it. But if they do, and you have that at hand, that's a clear justification for
00:28:51.960
deducting that in your business. And I think this is probably, in my mind, outside of generating
00:28:57.620
revenue, which obviously is important in any business, I think starting a business on the side,
00:29:03.460
even if you're not giving a lot of time and attention, but just, just some level of attention
00:29:08.400
to it. And maybe it's something you're already doing photography, for example, or hiking or hunting.
00:29:12.220
Like I talked about those two guys is it gives you the opportunity to turn, like you said, what would
00:29:17.660
normally just be an expense into, yes, still an expense, but you getting to deduct that, which I
00:29:23.320
think is huge, huge. It's so valuable. Yeah, exactly. And I actually was just listening to Tim Ferris
00:29:29.180
podcast. I don't know if you listened to the one where he said the 18 questions that he asked or
00:29:33.320
whatever. I don't know if I've caught that one. Okay. He just, the 18 questions he asked himself
00:29:37.480
to help solve problems. And one of them he said is, how do I scratch my own itch? I think is how he
00:29:43.260
termed it. What am I spending a ton of money on that I could be doing myself? Right. And his point
00:29:49.360
was, how do I, how do I turn that into a moneymaker? But the other side of that is, how do I turn the
00:29:54.080
expenses involved with that into a tax deduction? Exactly what you said. So you love hunting. All
00:29:59.140
right. You're probably not going to be able to deduct that on your taxes, but now you form a
00:30:02.580
business around that hunting trip. And now those, a lot of those hunting expenses do indeed become
00:30:07.520
tax deductions. Right. And maybe even to expand and just open guys' eyes a little bit more, you talk
00:30:12.760
about the hunting trip, for example, and this gentleman is taking guys on guided tours. Maybe you're not
00:30:16.760
interested in that, but coming back to the review, maybe you have your firearms. Maybe you have a bow that
00:30:21.760
you want to review and you put up a website that is dedicated to reviewing hunting equipment and gear
00:30:26.440
and, and, and you're selling some of those packages or whatever it may be. And that's an
00:30:30.560
opportunity for you to deduct the expensive equipment you're going to buy anyways.
00:30:34.880
Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it is. It's turning something that you're passionate about
00:30:38.400
into something that makes money. And then in turn, deducting those expenses that you already had
00:30:42.920
on your taxes. Well, and I think maybe the other side of this too, is that it justifies the
00:30:48.560
purchase, especially when you might have to talk with your spouse about making a purchase,
00:30:52.860
like a firearm or something like that. I can't tell you the number of clients who said,
00:30:57.400
can I tell my husband or wife that this is a tax deduction so I can buy it?
00:31:02.760
The common question, but no, and it's a good point. The one thing I'll say you want to be careful of
00:31:06.980
is this has got to be a legit business. Okay. And in the IRS's minds, a legit business is something
00:31:13.220
that makes a profit three out of every five years. Okay. So this can't be something that
00:31:18.440
you're going to show a loss on your taxes year after year after year. The first two years, fine.
00:31:22.680
We can show a loss. That's a startup business. A lot of them start up like that. But by year three,
00:31:27.040
you got to be turning a profit in order to continue to deduct that on your taxes. Otherwise,
00:31:31.820
the IRS is going to label it as a hobby and those expenses are no longer deductible.
00:31:35.740
Right. Yeah. It makes sense. Yeah. We want to make sure that we're doing this by the books.
00:31:39.160
We're using every advantage that we can. It's there. The tax code is there to help and we want
00:31:43.900
to take advantage of it, but we don't want to abuse it. Right. Exactly. I would say it's manly
00:31:49.960
to pay your taxes, but not a dime more than you have to. Right. Right. Yeah. And I think there's
00:31:54.260
a lot of misconception about that, that I think some people think that you shouldn't be looking
00:31:58.920
for tax breaks and tax codes. And we look at the people who are wealthy. I'm like, man,
00:32:02.340
they're just following the code that the people have set up, you know? Yep. Exactly. Yeah. I mean,
00:32:07.140
why would you pay more than you're legally required to pay? Right. Right. Are there some
00:32:11.860
other mistakes that you see young entrepreneurs make? I mean, maybe you talk about the bookkeeping,
00:32:16.900
maybe it's a tax mistake, maybe it's a marketing mistake, maybe it's a not doing their marketing
00:32:23.260
exactly right. Are there other mistakes that you're seeing? Yeah. I mean, the bookkeeping one's a big one,
00:32:29.440
just knowing their numbers, knowing what their business is doing, general record keeping.
00:32:34.220
I would say trying to make money too quickly. So you have this idea, you launch this, you start
00:32:43.400
doing, let's go back to, you're going to launch a site reviewing guns and you try to immediately put
00:32:48.640
up these videos and charge people for watching your reviews that you created. That's not going to work.
00:32:52.900
You got to build some type of authority before you're going to charge people. And a lot of people
00:32:56.460
get impatient and say, okay, I created this, now I need to start charging people. Like, no, build this up,
00:33:01.400
build an audience, show value, and then start worrying about collecting money. That's always
00:33:06.120
a big one. So for me, the one thing I always stress is that the shortcut in business is connecting with
00:33:12.460
influencers, right? So in my case, it was reaching out to John Lee Dumas and becoming associated with
00:33:17.300
him. And doing that is as simple as reaching out and offering to provide value. And I see a lot of
00:33:23.040
people doing this, but the mistake I see them making is they'll send... So I get these emails all the
00:33:27.680
time. Hey, I love your business. If I can ever be of any help, let me know.
00:33:32.620
Yeah, that actually creates more work for the other person.
00:33:35.600
Exactly. Because I have no idea what you're good at. I have no idea what value you can offer me.
00:33:40.700
So one of the ways early on I did this was I would see someone like, I didn't do this with John,
00:33:45.300
but there were other people that I did this with. And I'd say, hey, I saw that because the big thing
00:33:48.900
for a while was publishing income reports online, right? So these people could show how much money
00:33:52.840
they were making. Which, by the way, was a great strategy because then people say, oh, wow,
00:33:57.100
he makes six figures a month. I need to pay him to do that.
00:34:01.040
Right. Exactly. So great strategy there. But no, I would reach out to him and be like, hey,
00:34:04.980
I saw that you're making $100,000 a month. I looked it up because in some states you can find how
00:34:09.740
they're structured. And I'd say, hey, I see that you're structured as an LLC still. Here's a quick video
00:34:14.740
I did that shows that you could save $7,000 by being taxed as an S corporation, right? So they knew
00:34:20.880
exactly what I could provide for them. They knew exactly how I could help them. It wasn't just,
00:34:25.920
hey, I do taxes. I'm happy to help anytime. Because then they have to think about how I can
00:34:29.560
help them. Like you said, it creates more work. Right. I mean, I get messages every day. And
00:34:33.200
although I appreciate those guys who reach out and want to help and want to be part of what we're
00:34:37.440
doing, I do appreciate that. That's why we're doing it. I just can't take the time to think about
00:34:42.020
what every one of those requests could do for me or the order man or anybody else who might need
00:34:46.520
help. And so I love that strategy of, okay, what am I good at? Where can I
00:34:50.760
provide value? Where is there a problem, right? As men, we are problem identifying machines.
00:34:56.560
And then specifically, how can I solve this problem for this other person?
00:35:00.560
Yeah, exactly. And the other thing I'd say there is don't be afraid to do it for free for a few
00:35:04.500
influencers. A lot of business coaches, I don't know if you ever heard that. I always heard,
00:35:08.940
well, actually I did financial advising for a while and we had a business coach. He's always,
00:35:12.520
no free consulting, no free consulting. Once you do it for free, no one will ever pay you.
00:35:15.840
I completely disagree, especially early on. You can connect with an influencer. To this day,
00:35:20.820
I still do all of John Lee Dumas' taxes for free because in turn, yeah, maybe over the last three
00:35:27.280
years, maybe I collect $10,000 from him. Instead, I've probably made $200,000 from having access to
00:35:33.080
his audience because he was happy with the work I did.
00:35:35.140
Right. Yeah, it makes sense. Which this is actually a good point. And I would agree with what you said,
00:35:40.460
but I think there's probably a blend. At some point when you start building up that credibility and that
00:35:45.420
influence, that at some point, you wouldn't want to do that free consulting, but I can definitely
00:35:49.440
see where it makes sense with what you're talking about.
00:35:52.240
No, you definitely reached that point. I think even in my case, there's a few cases after I did
00:35:57.460
it with John. I was like, oh, this is a great strategy. And I did it for a few other people.
00:36:00.280
And I was like, this is stupid. I need to start charging. So there does come a point of where you
00:36:05.260
Yeah, you just got to use your head and do it on a case-by-case basis. But you also bring up the
00:36:10.340
point that I think a lot of people will probably hear this conversation, especially how we started,
00:36:15.420
with it and think, oh, everybody needs to do this. Like do this now. I can hurry and start
00:36:19.840
something. I can do some reviews or I can take some people hunting and I can make a hundred
00:36:22.600
thousand dollars. And although there might be some exceptions to that, where that actually
00:36:28.220
does work out that way. I just want to make sure that we throw this out here that you're
00:36:33.860
not seeing the behind the scenes work. Like I get so many messages that say something to
00:36:38.100
the effect of Ryan, you're lucky, or I wish I had your job. You just get to be on Facebook
00:36:42.320
all day. And it's like, yeah, you're seeing the outside manifestation of a boatload of
00:36:49.680
Yeah, exactly. I mean, for every client that I have that's making six figures in this, there's
00:36:54.040
probably been five behind them that did it, thought they'd make immediate money and stopped
00:36:57.940
after a month because they didn't make anything. You've got a plan that you're going to go at
00:37:02.080
least a few months, if not even maybe a year before you're bringing in real money. It kind
00:37:07.640
of comes back to what we talked about at the beginning. Should you go, should you burn the
00:37:10.420
boats and go all in? Or should you kind of do it on the side first? For most people,
00:37:14.900
I would recommend doing it on the side. If you can keep that day job while you build this,
00:37:19.180
my guess is you probably didn't just abandon your financial practice and start Order of
00:37:24.280
You kept that money coming in, slowly build up Order of Man, and maybe you scale back on
00:37:30.080
one or the other as the other one builds. So if you can start by moonlighting... So here's
00:37:34.420
a perfect example. In my case, I didn't just completely abandon all income. I actually found
00:37:39.600
an older guy that was looking to get out of his tax practice. And he said, hey, just come
00:37:44.100
in and do all of my clients for me and I'll pay you 30% of the revenue. And if you want
00:37:47.760
to grow your own practice on the side, you can keep all that. So I did all of his work.
00:37:51.620
And in the meantime, I'm working till two in the morning every night trying to build a
00:37:55.880
client base on my own. And when I had enough to replace his work, that's when I left his
00:38:04.780
No, I mean, this is a good point. Yeah. I mean, to your point about Order of Man, I was literally
00:38:09.080
eight months before of work, hard work before I even made a dollar. And I think in November of
00:38:16.380
last year, so a little over a year ago, I made maybe 900 bucks, something like... I mean, it wasn't
00:38:23.980
very much at all after eight months of work. But it did also show me the potential that it was there.
00:38:29.620
And I think the point here is that if you are going to get involved in a business, not just as
00:38:34.100
a tax strategy, but as, hey, this is something I want to do permanently, a career choice even,
00:38:39.680
that you plant your flag and really be in this thing for the long haul. Because there's been
00:38:44.140
businesses that are very similar to mine that started about the same time that aren't even
00:38:48.340
on the map anymore. And the only reason is not because they weren't good or didn't have a great
00:38:53.400
message or weren't high quality people. It has to do with the consistency of delivering the message
00:38:59.600
that we have over the past almost two years now. And it is every single day, all day of putting
00:39:05.200
yourself out there. Yeah, exactly. And there's so many people that do try to do what you did and
00:39:10.420
a month into it, they're going to say, this is a lot of work. I'm not getting anything. I quit.
00:39:14.320
Yeah. We need eight months. John Lee Dumas, everyone sees that he's making millions a year.
00:39:19.620
He went, I think, like nine to 10 months before he made a single dime on that podcast.
00:39:24.200
So it's every success story. I mean, every once in a while, you'll hear someone that was making
00:39:28.080
money from day one. But for the most part, it's going to take months and months of hard work with
00:39:32.060
little to no return. Well, and I think anytime you hear somebody that made money from day one,
00:39:36.540
they're probably trying to sell you something, quite honestly.
00:39:39.260
Yeah, exactly. Unless they got super lucky. That's exactly what it is. And the other thing I'd add here
00:39:43.460
is if you think, so I see this all the time. People say, okay, order of man is awesome. It's making,
00:39:48.980
I can see that it's making good money. This would be an awesome job. Like you said,
00:39:52.120
people are saying I can spend all day on Facebook. So they go and create a podcast interviewing men
00:39:56.640
and create a Facebook group. And they basically become a copy of order of man. You're almost
00:40:01.640
certainly not going to make money doing that. And that, I think that's what most people try to do
00:40:05.600
when they start a business. They see someone that's making money. They think they want to do it. And
00:40:09.300
they try to provide an exact copy of that. And that's not going to work.
00:40:12.440
Well, to your point, when I started order of man, my original intention was to create something
00:40:16.780
very similar to Brett McKay with art of manliness. And I realized very quickly that he already
00:40:21.840
had a strong foothold. I am not Brett. I cannot do it like Brett, nor do I want to. And so we went
00:40:28.740
our own direction. And that's where I started to gain some traction.
00:40:32.220
Yeah, exactly. And there's nothing wrong with saying, okay, order of man is really cool.
00:40:35.680
I think I can provide my own spin and do something similar, but also very different. That's how you
00:40:40.900
make money. It's not saying I'm going to create entrepreneur on fire. I can't tell you what people,
00:40:46.000
when he started publishing his income reports and people saw the money he's making,
00:40:50.340
there was probably about a hundred thousand new podcasts that went up of interviewing
00:40:55.560
entrepreneurs, thinking that they were going to make money doing that.
00:40:58.020
Sure. And a lot of them were probably quote unquote on fire, right? So yeah, exactly.
00:41:03.320
Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a, it's a good point. Well, Josh, we're winding down on time. I mean,
00:41:07.620
this has actually been a really fascinating discussion and I think it skims the surface on,
00:41:11.280
on what we're talking about and why this might be valuable in somebody who's listening's life.
00:41:15.220
Tell me, well, I guess before I get to that question, I do want to ask you the question that I
00:41:19.260
prepped you a little bit for, and that is what does it mean to be a man?
00:41:23.200
I would say to me, being a man is just handling your responsibilities, whatever those are. If it's,
00:41:28.480
it's a family, you're handling your, your, your, your responsibilities to your family. If it's
00:41:32.080
financial responsibilities, you're handling them. And no matter what hits, no matter what difficult
00:41:36.260
situations arise, you're, you're finding a way to handle those responsibilities.
00:41:39.660
I love it, man. And obviously something we, we agree with as well. So powerful stuff. Well,
00:41:44.560
tell us how we can find you. Obviously we're, we're the beginning of the year. This is a busy
00:41:48.320
time for you. And this is a time that probably entrepreneurs should be thinking about touching
00:41:52.560
base with you. So tell us how we can connect and learn more about the work you're doing.
00:41:55.980
Yeah. So definitely check out my website, cpmfire.com. Uh, you can reach out to me directly
00:42:00.500
via email, josh at cpmfire.com. Uh, and there are actually, we, if you're interested in what type of
00:42:06.640
entity is the best for you, like we talked about LLC, S Corp, that kind of stuff. We created a free
00:42:10.480
video course that you can check out. If you go to cpmfire.com slash fire nation.
00:42:16.100
Right on. We'll make sure we address all of that in the show notes so the guys can get the links and
00:42:19.720
everything else. Josh, I appreciate, man. I'm looking forward to getting to know you better.
00:42:22.960
We've known each other for, for a couple of months now and, uh, and honored to know you and the work
00:42:26.980
that you're doing and appreciate you imparting some of your wisdom on us today. Thanks brother.
00:42:32.660
There you have it guys. Josh Bowerly giving us some truth about what it takes to start your own
00:42:36.620
business on the side. I hope you guys take this knowledge and consider implementing
00:42:40.260
it in your life. Some of you have never had the desire to run your own business, but I hope you
00:42:45.080
can at least see the benefits of why you may want to turn an interest or a hobby into a side business.
00:42:49.940
Again, just a quick reminder about our second live event, the uprising. We are going to sell out.
00:42:54.180
We've got 25 spots this year. I think we've got six spots left and I want to see you there. And at
00:42:59.260
the end of the day, we're going to be completing some activities and some challenges that are going to be
00:43:02.520
exactly what you might need to take your life to the next level. You can learn more and claim and
00:43:07.180
reserve your spot at order of man.com slash uprising. I'm going to look forward to talking with you on
00:43:11.200
Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then take action and become the man you were meant to be.
00:43:16.160
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be
00:43:21.220
more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.