Order of Man - 104： Building Social Capital ｜ Jordan Harbinger

00:00:00.000 Like it or not, your ability to connect with and relate to other people is such a critical

00:00:04.480 component to your overall success in life. Dealing with your own life is hard enough as it is,

00:00:09.060 so adding another human being into the picture makes it infinitely more challenging. Today,

00:00:13.440 my guest Jordan Harbinger with The Art of Charm joins me for the second time to talk about adding

00:00:17.760 maximum value to your relationships, establishing boundaries to keep those relationships healthy,

00:00:23.120 the power that comes from diversifying your connections, and how to build more social capital.

00:00:27.840 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly

00:00:32.700 chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You

00:00:38.540 are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:45.040 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:50.760 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler,

00:00:54.960 and I am the host and the founder of Order of Man. I hope all is going well for you this week.

00:00:59.500 I've got a great one lined up for you today like we always do each and every week. I want to welcome

00:01:03.240 you to the show if you are new, and if you are, we're working hard to bring you the very best

00:01:08.040 guests when it comes to becoming a better man. That's what we're all about here. We are bringing

00:01:11.820 you the world's most successful men. We're taking their lessons, taking their wisdom. We're bringing

00:01:16.280 them straight to you. So if you've been with us for a short period of time, or if this is your very

00:01:20.020 first episode that you've ever listened to the Order of Man podcast, you now know what we're all

00:01:23.960 about. Obviously, for those of you who have been around for any amount of time, that was a refresher

00:01:27.680 for you. If you are looking for the notes and the details of the conversation I have with Jordan

00:01:32.800 today, you can check that out at orderofman.com slash 104 as in episode 104. If you're looking to

00:01:40.640 connect with some other like-minded men, I think if I remember correctly, the last time I looked,

00:01:46.100 we're just under 24,000, 24,000 men in our closed Facebook group, and you can request access at

00:01:53.440 facebook.com slash groups slash Order of Man. And if you really want to take this thing up a notch,

00:01:58.960 you can join us in our exclusive mastermind, The Iron Council. You can do that at orderofman.com

00:02:03.640 slash Iron Council. I'm going to talk a little bit more about that during the break, but for now,

00:02:08.020 you can get the details there. Before I get into my conversation today with Jordan, I do want to

00:02:12.500 mention the sponsor of this show, which is 511 Tactical. I don't do a lot of sponsorships. You

00:02:17.380 probably noticed that because I'm only interested in sharing the best companies out there, the ones

00:02:21.840 that I actually work with. So when I had the opportunity to work with 511, I jumped on it

00:02:26.000 because I already know them. I already use their gear. I've got bags. I've got bags for my gear,

00:02:30.140 firearms. I've got their tactical pants, shirts, knives. My favorite pair of boots of all time is from

00:02:35.660 511. I really could have used these things in Iraq. They are literally the most comfortable pair of

00:02:40.520 boots that I have. So if you're interested in knowing more about 511 Tactical and gearing up,

00:02:45.680 check out what they have to offer at orderofman.com slash 511 as in 511. I subscribe to their motto,

00:02:52.240 which is always be ready. I know you do as well. Again, check it all out and get your free flashlight

00:02:57.240 with any purchase of $175 or more at orderofman.com slash 511. Now, let me introduce you to a man who

00:03:05.280 probably does not need an introduction for a lot of you. Jordan Harbinger. He is back to visit with

00:03:10.780 us for a second time due to popular demand. I've managed to build a pretty good relationship with

00:03:15.860 Jordan over the past couple of years. And when we connected a couple of weeks ago, I jumped at the

00:03:19.980 opportunity to have him back on. He is the host of the top ranked podcast, The Art of Charm, which again,

00:03:25.660 a lot of you are familiar with. And he's somebody I really respect when it comes to his craft.

00:03:29.500 He's been extremely, extremely influential, both directly and indirectly in helping me deliver the

00:03:35.160 message of order of man to you. I'm going to tell you, this one does start off a little unique

00:03:39.240 because as Jordan and I were having a conversation prior to officially starting the interview, I just

00:03:44.860 hit record since what he was talking about provides a very good example of how not to build a solid

00:03:51.020 relationship. So in a way you get to listen into our conversation as friends. Guys, I hope you enjoy.

00:03:55.500 Yeah. There's a lot of people in, especially internet marketing, they will just screw you 0.53

00:04:02.160 on the dumbest, smallest thing that wouldn't have cost them anything to do and they'll do it. And 0.96

00:04:07.040 I'm like, what is wrong with you people? It's crazy, man. It's crazy. You know, if I, same,

00:04:11.640 I mean, here is like, regardless if I come on your show, this is going to be a good episode. It's not

00:04:15.400 like I'm going to withhold it just because I'm waiting on, well, that's what you talk about. Those

00:04:18.760 covert contracts, right? Yeah. Yeah. Covert contracts. And, but like at some level,

00:04:24.200 it's still just so weird. Cause what happened earlier? Like I had had this guy on my show for

00:04:30.460 a while and I let it go for a long time. Cause I was like, yeah, I don't know. I don't want to bug

00:04:33.960 him. And I emailed him and he was slow to respond. And I finally, like a year later, got in touch with

00:04:38.340 them through a mutual friend. Like there's the guy that they like hang out with and they go and they,

00:04:42.640 they go hiking and they like go camping and stuff. So it's like a real friend of his makes the intro

00:04:47.160 back to him and the guy won't respond to me. So I finally asked my friend, I'm like, look,

00:04:51.400 is there something I need to know? This guy's not responding. So I actually wrote them both back.

00:04:55.700 I CC'd my friend who made the intro and I was like, Hey, just in case you're not getting my emails,

00:05:00.840 I haven't heard from you in the last couple of months. And then he writes back and he's like,

00:05:05.180 Hey, yeah, I do all my shows in person. So it's not going to work. And I was like,

00:05:08.620 Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. I'll fly to LA. I'm there all the time. What's the real reason here? No response.

00:05:15.260 And I'm like, what the hell? So I'm going back to my friend and I literally write to my friend,

00:05:19.840 and I go, what's this guy's problem? Like he literally is fucking me over on something that 0.96

00:05:24.640 we talked about and that's not cool. What's his deal? And he's like, I don't know. He's a really 0.99

00:05:28.260 nice guy. And I was like, look, if you could throw in a good word and find out what the real deal is,

00:05:32.460 because personally this is looking really bad. Yeah. And I left it at that because I don't not

00:05:38.180 that I'm trying to make my mutual friend feel bad about making an intro. I mean, I asked him to,

00:05:42.440 but I, I kind of feel like it's okay to, to get someone to have social consequences for 0.99

00:05:49.600 fucking you over. Because if you don't say anything, then it happens in a vacuum, right? 0.98

00:05:55.320 Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

00:05:56.880 And like, then the person just keeps doing it. And, or like the, the worst case scenario is the

00:06:02.120 guy goes, you know what? Fine. I don't like Jordan. He's a scammer and he's an asshole and

00:06:05.740 he's a little punk and I don't like him. I'd rather know that than him be like, Oh, I'm, 1.00

00:06:09.880 here's a bullshit reason I can't. Oh, here's an excuse. 0.98

00:06:12.700 Yep. Yep. It actually speaks a lot about if somebody can't stand up for themselves and say,

00:06:17.380 Hey, this is why it actually speaks a lot about who that person is in my mind.

00:06:21.120 Exactly, man. And additionally, I started thinking about why this is happening. And I realized

00:06:25.720 the reason that people will not respond or they will say something like, Oh, sorry,

00:06:30.840 I only do shows in person, even though I'm happy to travel and I, you know, do it all the time.

00:06:35.560 And I've given them something in, in the previous, the previous year, week, month, whatever. And then

00:06:41.700 we agreed on it, right? Because you don't want to keep those covert contracts. That's, that's

00:06:45.460 right. Like the contract though is over at this point. Right. So it was like, well, we said show

00:06:50.940 exchange, not I'll interview you and then maybe you'll vanish. And so, and it's, it's important

00:06:55.920 to your business to do this type of thing. And so it was strange for me to see that. And I realized

00:07:00.500 why are people, why do people keep doing that? Why do people fall off the face of the earth? And

00:07:05.180 I'm not saying this happens all the time, but you do see it like one person a year will just be a

00:07:09.420 complete flub and flake. They were vouched for. And I realized the reason some people do this anyway

00:07:15.020 is because it's so much easier for me to be like, Oh, sorry, Ryan. I'm so busy. I'm planning my wedding

00:07:21.220 and I've got, you know, all these other shows, man, we are just slammed over here. Yeah, that's true.

00:07:25.920 But the real reason that people might not want to say anything is they just don't want to admit

00:07:30.940 that they purposely went and did your, your stuff or got the benefit from you. And they're

00:07:36.600 consciously deciding to just screw you over and, and flake on their end of the bargain. It's easier

00:07:43.000 because they're lying, not just to you, they're lying to themselves a lot of times. Like I think a

00:07:47.040 lot of people out there really do think I'm so bad at email or this person deserves a longer

00:07:52.540 response. And so they leave the email in their inbox for like a year and a half and delete it.

00:07:58.060 And it's like, Oh, you know, I meant to email you. Well, that's kind of true, but you also kind of

00:08:03.320 didn't. And you emailed a thousand other people and you avoided this. And so it kind of comes down to

00:08:09.100 speaking of order of man principles, just being truthful to yourself. It's not even just about

00:08:14.540 upholding your end of the bargain. It's about not lying to yourself. It's the same excuse process that

00:08:19.580 comes into play when you're like, man, I'm going to go to the gym like five days a week. And you're

00:08:23.740 like, ah, but it's raining. You know, I heard it's bad work out in the rain. I don't want to go walk

00:08:28.520 there in the rain because then I might get a cold. And then, you know, if I'm sick, I can't be a

00:08:32.760 health nut. So they stay home watching Netflix. And it's like, no, no, no, no. If you believe your

00:08:37.240 own BS, you're in so much trouble. So, but do you think it's that, do you think it's that they

00:08:41.540 intentionally are trying to screw you over? I think that's probably true in some instances,

00:08:45.080 or do you think it's that people are just afraid of telling you what it really is about?

00:08:50.620 I think it's mostly people are afraid to tell you what it's about. Now, look, we,

00:08:54.180 you and I sort of talked about internet marketing type stuff before the show. And a lot of guys in

00:09:00.160 those niches where it's like make money online or like diet pills. Those guys are internet marketers.

00:09:06.460 A lot of people are more upstanding versions of internet marketers. Of course, not every internet

00:09:11.160 marketers, but obviously, but there's a lot more inclination for, I think, lower rungs of that

00:09:17.820 business to screw people over because a lot of the people on their, on the same rung of that ladder

00:09:23.840 are scammy. And that's what they try to do to get ahead. And there's no real social consequences

00:09:27.840 to this because in, well, in their mind. So, cause if you and I are brand new people, we work at

00:09:33.700 CVS or some drug store on the weekday. And on the weekend, we have an online course. Like you

00:09:39.020 could screw me over or I could screw you over at that rate. And we would probably be thinking, 0.97

00:09:43.980 I'm never going to see this guy again. Who cares? Right. And you and I know that that's not true

00:09:48.500 because the world gets smaller as you get more connected. But I really do think that in most

00:09:53.260 cases, people are lying to themselves and they're only thinking about what they want. They're not

00:09:58.540 necessarily thinking, how do I get one over on Ryan or how do I get one over on Jordan? They're just

00:10:03.240 thinking, all right, I want to get this thing from Ryan and then I'm get this thing from Jamie and then I

00:10:07.180 get this other thing from Jordan and they've got a huge list of people and their priority is

00:10:11.100 themselves. And that's fine, but they don't balance it well. So that next time, next year,

00:10:16.180 when they come back to you or they come back to me, we're thinking like, how are you going to come

00:10:20.800 back and do that again? You didn't, you didn't even answer my email last year. Right. You know?

00:10:25.040 Well, and I think too, the other part of it is, and this is kind of baffling to me that somebody

00:10:28.600 would behave opposite of what I'm going to talk about, but it's creating the win-win, right? Like I think

00:10:32.320 there's opportunities for me to get exactly what I want. For example, you and I are having this

00:10:37.360 conversation and this conversation, because who you are and the audience you've built and everything

00:10:41.080 that you've done in your business is going to serve me and my audience well, but it's also going to

00:10:46.040 serve you well. I think we need to look for those win-win situations. Of course. Yeah. And I think

00:10:50.200 learning the win-win stuff is a, this is one of those, there's got to be a term for this. And if not,

00:10:55.380 we should make one up at some point. Uh, but you know, in the beginning when you're thinking,

00:10:59.720 okay, this is so obvious, like, yeah, create one wins. And everyone's like, ah,

00:11:03.200 screw that. That's one of those stupid means. Of course it makes sense, but everyone knows that 1.00

00:11:07.740 there's no news here. Right. And after a few years you go, that's okay. Now I get why everybody says

00:11:15.300 that it's sort of finding the truth behind the cliche because everybody listening is going,

00:11:20.220 if this show's about make win-wins, I'm going to the next episode. I don't need to listen to this

00:11:24.200 Jordan guy for 30 minutes. Talk about creating wins like me. You know, I've been paying attention.

00:11:29.460 I think though, when I first started AOC 10 years ago, art of charm and art of charm podcast

00:11:35.220 10 years ago with AJ, we were like, oh yeah, win-wins. But I remember some of the early stuff

00:11:41.460 we did and said and talked about, and we didn't really put it into practice because we only did

00:11:47.000 it when it made sense for us. So it wasn't necessarily thinking about what we can do to

00:11:51.220 serve other people. It was mostly like, yeah, this is win-win because the deal doesn't suck for you.

00:11:56.520 And it gives me what I want. It's like the lowest common denominator for them, right?

00:12:00.680 Yeah. It's like the lowest grade win-win. It's kind of like that vodka you see at the drugstore

00:12:05.640 and you're like, who buys mohawk? And it's like on the bottom shelf in a plastic bottle.

00:12:10.140 And then, you know, like you see that and you're like, oh, $3 for a pint of that,

00:12:14.300 that must be pretty bad. You know, that's that kind of deal when you talk about win-win.

00:12:18.580 And that's not- But there's a side for that too, because I mean, to go with your analogy,

00:12:21.480 there was a time, and I don't drink anymore, but there was a time in high school and college where

00:12:25.380 that's all we would have went for, that or the Natty Light, when it came to beer.

00:12:28.520 So I think there's probably a time where this actually works.

00:12:31.320 Yeah. There's a cool like sort of analogy in here, right? Where when your business is first

00:12:35.760 starting, you're on the Natty Light thing because you're thinking, look, this is all I can afford to

00:12:39.280 do. But I think my point is that that's not really true, right? When you're in college and you can only

00:12:44.540 afford Natty Light or like some kind of super knockoff, plug your nose when you drink it vodka,

00:12:49.160 I get that. But in your business, what you can't really afford to do, or in your life in general,

00:12:53.900 just as an adult man, you can't afford not to actually do the high grade stuff. Make all of

00:13:00.300 your, to take the analogy further, right? Or the metaphor, I should say, take every deal that you

00:13:05.120 have in your life. And I don't just mean business. I mean, in your regular personal life, your family

00:13:08.340 life and make it all top shelf. And so what I mean by this, just to go along with our earlier story

00:13:13.740 here is when you're first starting off, when we were first starting off with AOC and we thought,

00:13:17.900 you know what, this has to be win-win, but really it's just get what we want, make sure the other

00:13:23.320 person doesn't feel burned. It shouldn't be like that. It should be, make this so good for the

00:13:28.200 other person that you actually get the short end of the stick. And I don't mean purposely undercut

00:13:32.840 the value you get. I just mean, seek to deliver the value so much more on their end that they're

00:13:38.380 thinking, this is a no brainer for me. And I think that's really important because had I learned that

00:13:43.320 earlier in the game, I think I would have stronger or longer or more relationships than I have now.

00:13:48.540 As you probably know, this is my whole business. This is what we teach essentially now. So we have

00:13:54.700 a lot of great relationships really deep and that's in fact what we teach. But had I learned

00:13:59.140 this skill even earlier than the last 10 years or so, it would have been such a great win for Art of

00:14:05.880 Charm. It would have been such a great win for me personally, because I think really when you do look

00:14:10.500 to give other people even more of what they want and what they need, it really is kind of what

00:14:15.720 Zig Ziglar and all those guys meant when they say, look, give other people what they want and

00:14:20.340 don't necessarily look for what you want. That goes into not keeping score and that goes into all

00:14:24.740 kinds of other social capital stuff we can talk about. But I really think that at the core of it,

00:14:29.660 if you just seek to give so much more than you receive, other people will be clamoring to do

00:14:34.480 business with you and your reputation will be sterling because there will be no margin for somebody to

00:14:39.420 think, well, you know, I did this thing with Jordan, but it was kind of like he got what he wanted

00:14:44.000 and I was left, you know, with the chef. Nobody will ever think that because it will be so

00:14:47.760 obviously skewed in their favor. And your reputation really is worth more than whatever

00:14:52.980 sort of extra thing that person got, especially because you're not competing with them in the

00:14:57.060 first place. Does that make sense? Oh, for sure. And I think you brought up a really good point

00:15:00.200 because you talked about my relationships are stronger, longer. And I think that longer is a key

00:15:04.120 perspective because I think what a lot of people are doing out there is they're out to make

00:15:07.480 a quick buck or a quick relationship or a one night stand or whatever it may be.

00:15:11.480 And they want the quick, fast win so they can afford to be a little bit scammy. They can afford

00:15:16.140 to be a little lower on the on the value pole, if you will, versus somebody who's planted their flag

00:15:20.800 and said, this is my business or this is the relationship I'm looking for. And because I've

00:15:25.300 planted my flag, I have to do this the right way the first time. Yeah, I think you're right.

00:15:29.680 Frankly, the longer relationships that you have over time, the more they yield fruit. And I think

00:15:35.300 that's another thing that I kind of didn't think about 10, 12 years ago. And I realized we're going

00:15:40.000 away from what we quote unquote plan to talk about today, but I think this is useful just to fly

00:15:44.020 by the seat of our pants. I was really decade, decade and a half ago, especially in law school

00:15:49.500 when I was like, I got to get a job. You know, I was only thinking about short term stuff. I wasn't

00:15:54.560 thinking, well, you know, I might need to know this recruiter who helped me get this job for the next 10

00:16:01.640 or 15 years. It was never like that. It was just kind of like, yeah, I want to get this thing from

00:16:06.260 this recruiter guy. And I also want to maybe make it quote unquote, win, win for them. That's

00:16:11.680 sort of level two. Rung one is what can I get from you? Rung two is let's make it quote unquote,

00:16:16.440 win, win. Rung three would be something like what we just talked about where, uh, the, the other

00:16:21.680 person's getting an even better deal. But in terms of timeframe, yeah, I just never thought ahead

00:16:26.060 to what this might work out to be longterm. And of course, in the last 10 years with art of charm,

00:16:31.300 we have focused on just a lifetime relationships, like everybody we deal with, let's just assume

00:16:36.760 they're going to be in our lives forever. And it really does inform the way that you treat people.

00:16:41.280 And it shouldn't kind of, but it totally does. Right. If you think about, I might know every

00:16:46.720 person that I meet for the rest of my life, how would I treat them? Even if you're really,

00:16:51.460 really nice and really, really kind and really, really giving, I just find, look, man, you treat

00:16:56.460 people differently knowing that everything you do and say in that first or few, first few moments or

00:17:02.400 days or weeks will have a potential impact in the next decade or two. You just tweak it a little bit

00:17:09.160 more. You put in a little bit more energy, you put in a tiny little bit more effort or a lot more

00:17:14.320 effort. And it really does make a huge difference. So is this just, I mean, I imagine that for some

00:17:19.860 people, this is just the way that they are, right? They're just kind of born this way, or they learn it

00:17:24.500 through business lessons like you guys have over the past decade, or is this something that's

00:17:28.720 intentionally cultivated? Because I think sometimes we're just not in the position to know what is

00:17:34.740 that tier two or that tier three you talked about. How do you start finding that out a little bit and

00:17:39.000 going down that rabbit hole if you just are not in that position yet? I think that kind of goes to

00:17:43.500 the earlier point that we just made, which is instead of, and maybe I'm misunderstanding your

00:17:47.620 question here. So feel free to stop me if that's the case. I really do feel like if you just assume

00:17:53.020 that you need to treat people with the idea that you will know them for decades, it won't really

00:17:58.540 matter because that sort of encompasses what we had mentioned in the beginning of the show.

00:18:03.600 So if you draw a big circle and it's like, all right, the concept of I might know this person for

00:18:08.920 the next 50 years, below that is how would I treat that person? And the answer is you would make sure

00:18:14.320 that you did what we mentioned right in the beginning, which is make sure they got more value

00:18:18.520 in the relationship, at least at first than you. And then you can stop keeping score.

00:18:23.920 I think that's really important because if you just ask the questions of yourself that you would

00:18:28.360 ask, if you realized, okay, this is my, imagine you just met a long lost sibling or something like

00:18:33.560 that. You're probably thinking, uh, okay. Or your parents just got remarried and you're,

00:18:37.760 you know, you've got stepbrothers now. You're like, oh crap. Okay. This is, this is happening. 0.99

00:18:42.180 This is real. You probably wouldn't blow that person off and not try to get to know them at all,

00:18:47.400 especially if you were younger and you still live together. Like it's a high situation. You would

00:18:51.100 just be like, all right, this person is a part of my life now. This is what's up. And you, you

00:18:55.500 would treat that person in a completely different way. Now let's throw out the door, all the potential

00:19:00.400 family dynamics of jealousy and all the other drama that goes with that. Cause this is, this is an on

00:19:04.460 the fly metaphor slash analogy here. So I don't want to make it too. There's always somebody who will

00:19:09.320 come up with an exception. So we realize there's exceptions. We get it right. Like I don't even know my

00:19:13.740 stepbrother. I purposely did. Okay, dude. Yeah. Go see a therapist. But yeah,

00:19:16.980 what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is treat people like you're going to know them and have

00:19:22.320 to deal with them for the next 10 years and it will change everything. So it won't matter if

00:19:26.560 you won't really have to worry about, oh, am I going to know this person for a short time?

00:19:30.300 How do I decide? Just, it literally should not matter at all. The only problem, the only downside

00:19:36.420 with treating people like this is it requires extra effort and extra energy. On the other hand,

00:19:40.680 I think that's a feature and not a bug because it is that effort and that energy that instills that

00:19:46.460 really sterling reputation that you get from dealing with everybody because you're going in

00:19:50.960 it with the mindset of, I might have to know this person for a long time or deal with these

00:19:55.060 consequences. Does that make sense? Because I feel like there's no need to sort of analyze what type

00:19:59.960 of relationship it's going to be. The real trick here, the takeaway is treat them all the same way.

00:20:05.260 Yeah, I agree. But then to the other side of this, what happens when you identify,

00:20:09.700 maybe it's a course of a couple of months or a couple of interactions or even a decade of

00:20:14.400 interacting with this individual. And you begin to recognize this is somebody who should not be in

00:20:18.980 my life. Oh yeah. Okay. I got you. I thought I must've misunderstood what you were asking me

00:20:23.140 before. No, no, you're right on. I'm just, I'm just trying to give the other perspective because

00:20:26.500 I know there's going to be people wondering about that. Yeah, there, there are. And I've talked about

00:20:30.960 this a lot, especially in the context of dating and relationships in the past, because there's a lot

00:20:35.620 of men and women who are like, yeah, I know you say, don't keep score and always treat everybody

00:20:40.060 this way, but here's what's happening. And they just outline this pattern of basically just

00:20:44.580 abusively being used for months and months and months. And you go, oh yeah, that's not what I

00:20:49.900 meant. And so where do we draw the line? Right. In my opinion, it has to do with filtering in the

00:20:55.620 right type of people in your life, looking at a combination of intent and in actions. And then of

00:21:02.340 course, whether there's actual malice involved in this stuff here. And I know I'm talking like a

00:21:06.880 lawyer because I am one, or at least in a past life here, but I'll tell you what I mean by this.

00:21:11.720 I think, look, if you and I are friends for a long time and never had a problem, you know,

00:21:17.540 we've always just been like medium level friends or something like that. And then I ask you for

00:21:22.580 something and you do it. And then you ask me for something and it happens. And we're, we're good

00:21:25.600 like that. It's been like that for years and years. And then suddenly you're like, Hey man, I hate

00:21:29.260 to ask, but what about this? And I'm like, okay, it's asking a lot, but you know, I'll do it.

00:21:33.640 We're buddies. And then you do it again. And then it's like, I need money for this or something.

00:21:36.980 It's like, look, I'm starting to feel like I'm being used here. But also this is not just your

00:21:43.220 fault for asking quote unquote too much. It's also my fault for not setting boundaries. And so what I

00:21:49.360 would say is if any, if at any time someone is made to feel uncomfortable, um, they should set a

00:21:54.500 boundary. And I want to say real quickly as well, what, what could make you uncomfortable doesn't

00:22:00.200 necessarily have to always be the same stuff. So for some people, if a friend of mine says,

00:22:04.100 look, I, I'm embarrassed to ask you this, but I really want to borrow a 1500 bucks because I need

00:22:09.540 to pay something off. They're charging me interest through the nose and I'm between gigs. And I I've

00:22:14.100 done this. I've lent money to like my TV writer friends between seasons because they had some issue

00:22:20.380 with her, some strike or something like this happening. I don't mind, but I wouldn't do that with

00:22:24.060 everybody. And of course, if that person never paid me back, that would be a big problem. So you have

00:22:28.940 to analyze those consequences in the beginning. And if you're not comfortable with the quote unquote

00:22:33.080 worst case scenario happening, then that's how you know that you need to set a boundary. And you might

00:22:38.120 say, well, you know, I'm not really super comfortable with this and it's no reflection on you. It's a

00:22:42.960 reflection on the level of stress I get when I lend money out or something like that. You can justify

00:22:48.080 it and you can tell the other person why you don't want to do it. So they don't feel as bad.

00:22:51.920 Now the monkey's back on their back, the ball's back in their court. If they then say,

00:22:57.200 all right, cool, Ryan, you know what? I respect that. That's cool. By the way,

00:23:00.440 we should hang out. We're going to be in LA, you know, during this time. I know you're going to

00:23:03.580 be there too. Let's get together and have lunch. That's cool. You've moved on with your life. It's

00:23:07.780 all good. If the other person then says, you know what, then screw you, buddy. You realize, 0.99

00:23:13.300 okay, wait a minute. That wasn't the boundary that got rid of them. It was their reaction to the

00:23:19.120 boundary, whether that was appropriate or not. So if they have an inappropriate reaction to the

00:23:23.180 boundary that you set and it doesn't matter, there's no such thing as a boundary that's

00:23:26.840 inappropriate. It's all completely up to you. If they have a negative reaction to your boundary,

00:23:31.700 that is their fault. Yeah, that's interesting. I like this idea of boundaries because I think

00:23:36.640 there's a lot of men out there who don't have these boundaries. Some of the things that I've

00:23:39.520 used in my past is one I refer to as margin, where it's basically like, give yourself some space. You

00:23:44.740 don't have to answer or get to that right away. So give yourself some space. The other one is a higher

00:23:49.500 power, which essentially might be if somebody were to ask me for money or even do something within the

00:23:54.720 business that I'm not completely comfortable with, it might be me saying, hey, when do you need an

00:23:59.620 answer by? That gives me the margin. And then the secondary would be, let me refer to or talk with

00:24:05.220 my partners, which in my case, my partner is my wife. But it gives me the higher power to come back

00:24:10.180 and create some space where I can, I don't want to say fabricate, but craft the answer that I wanted

00:24:14.740 to give in the first place. Yeah, I can. I mean, I like these ideas, actually. And I think this is

00:24:20.540 this is stuff I don't talk about much because I've never actually really had to think about it up until

00:24:25.740 now. It just you caught me fresh off of an interesting interaction, as I mentioned, pre-show.

00:24:30.740 And I think that there's there's a lot of important concepts here because men in general, we well, we all

00:24:38.320 start out as boys. And what we realize is that our our boundaries and our sort of idea of how

00:24:42.820 relationships are supposed to happen. When when I was younger, my juvenile ideas about how people

00:24:48.980 should interact with me were informed by like me being an only child and doing well in school and 0.96

00:24:54.000 all the stupid society shelter stuff you get when you grow up in the suburbs and you're like, I need 0.98

00:24:59.200 a job now. And then somebody who owns a company doesn't reply to your email in like a week and you 0.99

00:25:03.780 get all huffed up about it because you're like, what's this guy's problem? Right. And as an adult,

00:25:07.900 you're like, oh, my God, what an idiot I was to expect this person's attention. But we have to 0.99

00:25:12.800 at some point sort of grow up through this. And we also have to realize, look, every single

00:25:17.840 boundary that I've had or thing that I think I'm supposed to get or the way that my relationships

00:25:24.160 were formed, like I'm best friends with this guy because he was on my sports team, like all of that

00:25:28.620 stuff has to be reevaluated. And I don't mean you have to ditch your friends you had in high school

00:25:33.580 or college because you met on a sports team. But what I am saying is you've got to reevaluate what's

00:25:37.880 important to you. I mean, when I was a teenager and in college, things that were important to me

00:25:42.820 about people are completely different than what they are now. And I even realized when I went to

00:25:48.880 graduate school that I started to weigh things in a completely different way. And I think a classic

00:25:54.280 example of this is kind of when you go through a big life event like you're you've got kids, right?

00:25:59.480 So I can. That's got to be one of those. For me, I'm getting married. So I'm like, well, OK,

00:26:05.760 now I have a totally different set of criteria on how to pick who I'm hanging out with. And I

00:26:10.580 probably don't need to go into a ton of detail about that. But when you're dating and you're

00:26:13.580 single, the people you hang out with can be but don't have to be a completely different type of

00:26:18.760 crowd. You might value. Oh, I love this guy is awesome parties and he's really nice and he's always

00:26:23.760 reliable and he always has a great crew of people there. That's somebody you might value. But once you get

00:26:28.440 married, you might think, well, you know, we used to like this guy because he had great parties and

00:26:32.480 stuff like that. But now I just realize he's really honest and caring and you can talk to him about

00:26:36.460 anything. I like the same guy, but for different reasons. Or you go, I don't really like that guy

00:26:41.380 anymore. I realized he had great parties, but man, he just he doesn't give a crap about anything 0.98

00:26:45.740 material. All he likes to do is go out and drink and have parties. And that's totally normal and 0.95

00:26:50.220 totally OK. And I think a lot of us for as adult men who are kind of worried as to whether or not

00:26:56.420 we're adulting correctly, we've never really made these evaluations. And I think it's time to sort

00:27:01.040 of dump some homework on the audience here and say, look, write down your 10, 15 closest friends

00:27:06.200 and just write down why you're friends with them. And if you've come up with some really great things,

00:27:11.320 share it with those people, even though it might be a little vulnerable. I think it'll deepen your

00:27:15.760 friendship. And for you, for the other like one third or one fourth of the people on that list,

00:27:20.300 and you can't think of a reason why you're friends with them other than, well, it's been 10 or 15 years,

00:27:24.460 maybe reconnect with them and figure out if there is a reason that you're still if you're still really

00:27:29.120 close or just realize like, oh, I've grown out of this person. And I'm not saying you have to cut

00:27:34.080 them off. I'm not saying you have to get rid of them. But I am saying there's there's some value

00:27:38.440 in consciously deciding who's in your life and not just running on the default program.

00:27:43.240 Yeah, I agree. That defaulting is huge. I mean, we see so many people that just kind of go with the

00:27:47.360 wind and I've got these friends or these people. These are the people I hang out with work. So these are

00:27:50.940 people I hang out with after work. And then we wake up and kind of realize somewhere down

00:27:54.440 the road that I didn't get where I wanted to. And hopefully we come to the conclusion that maybe

00:27:58.980 we just weren't intentional about it. Yeah, I think there's a lot of benefit in being

00:28:02.780 intentional. And I generally kind of hate words like that because it's kind of woo woo. It's kind

00:28:07.020 of like visualize or like focus. But what I mean, what I think you mean as well by intentional is

00:28:12.900 just something like this. Write down your 15 closest friends and then go, why am I friends with this

00:28:16.980 person? OK, cool. And then you can seek to find more people that match those characteristics

00:28:21.420 because we just never think about it. We just kind of float around in this area of life

00:28:25.460 and in that area of life. But you're right. Once you start becoming intentional about it,

00:28:29.100 you go, oh, you know what? Maybe I should hang out with these five people more because I do

00:28:33.060 like people who talk about world affairs and are really active politically. Or I really don't

00:28:38.080 want to talk about world affairs or with people that are active politically because they're driving

00:28:41.560 me freaking crazy. And you can start to surround yourself with the people that are going to protect

00:28:45.420 your sanity and evolve with you and move the ball forward on the goals that you have for yourself

00:28:51.780 and in your life. Men, just a very quick break for an introduction to our exclusive mastermind.

00:28:58.460 I told you I was going to tell you more about it. It's called the Iron Council. This is a group of

00:29:02.200 260 men who are doing a lot of work on improving their lives. If you're someone who wants to sit the

00:29:08.260 sidelines, you want to wait for something magical to happen. This is not the group for you. But if you

00:29:12.260 are interested in making things happen, this is the right place. We are focusing on four key areas

00:29:18.500 of life. Condition, which is your overall health. Calibration, which is about getting right with

00:29:23.700 yourself, your mind, your body, your soul. Connection, which is about building deep relationships. And of

00:29:29.000 course, the topic of the conversation today. And contribution, which is focused on helping you

00:29:34.180 add maximum value to this world, another component of the conversation we're having today,

00:29:39.020 so you can make more money and you can be more impactful and influential in your life.

00:29:44.940 So if you're interested in connecting with other like-minded guys and getting some guidance from

00:29:48.480 me, from the rest of the gentlemen inside the Iron Council who have figured some of this stuff out

00:29:52.640 or who are on their own journey, I want you to join us. You'll get all the tools, the guidance,

00:29:56.980 the direction, resources. You'll get the kick in the pants that you might need to get out of the

00:30:03.140 rut you may find yourself in right now. You can learn more and join us at orderofman.com

00:30:07.520 slash ironcouncil. Now let's get back to my conversation with Jordan.

00:30:12.500 What's your thoughts about, for lack of a better term, surrounding yourself purposefully with

00:30:17.520 people that may disagree with you or think differently about some, you talk about worldviews,

00:30:22.160 politics even. Tell me about your thoughts with that to round yourself out essentially.

00:30:26.840 You mean making friends with people that have differing worldviews and different things like that?

00:30:31.180 I think that, yeah, you're right. Good point. It's really, really easy to do the whole sort of

00:30:36.840 Facebook thing and curate your social media feeds by extension your whole life based on what you

00:30:46.500 see. And for people who aren't sure what we're talking about, basically if I click like on all

00:30:51.360 of your statuses, all of my other friends who are like ex-army guys and stuff like that,

00:30:55.760 shoot guns and all that stuff, gun guys and the conservative guys, if I click like on all that

00:31:00.280 stuff, then what happens? Yeah, that's all you're going to see.

00:31:02.780 Algorithm only shows me that stuff. And you start thinking, there's a term for this,

00:31:06.440 it's right on the tip of my tongue, but it's something like the majority illusion or the

00:31:10.000 illusion of the majority or something like that. And basically what this is, and also of course,

00:31:14.680 confirmation bias and selection bias. These are cognitive biases that say, if you're only around

00:31:20.200 a certain type of thinking, you start to think that that type of thinking applies to everybody.

00:31:24.820 And that's why people who are even in these like smaller religious groups, and I'm not pointing

00:31:30.660 out anyone in particular, basically applies to every religion around, especially the small ones,

00:31:35.260 you start to think, well, everybody I know is a Jehovah's witness or everybody I know is a 0.63

00:31:39.840 Hasidic Jewish person or whatever. You start to kind of think like, wow, that you overestimate the

00:31:45.600 number of those people around you and the number of those people in the world. And so you do this

00:31:50.540 with social media and it can be really tough to break out of it because you're like, crap, how do I

00:31:54.620 even make new friends? And here's the thing, man, it's really hard to go. All right, I need to find

00:32:01.400 a really cool, like I need to find a liberal friend of mine who like a handicapped African-American

00:32:07.240 lesbian, super left-wing person to balance out my stable of friends. Cause I only hang out with guys 1.00

00:32:13.940 from gun club or whatever. Right. Right. It's a sense to do that. Right. It's just, it's silly.

00:32:17.640 It doesn't make sense to do that. So the way that I do this instead is I read a lot of books

00:32:22.760 with viewpoints that I probably greatly disagree with. And I make sure that I interact with those

00:32:27.880 people elsewhere online. I don't have to have a party where half of my friends are in the NRA and

00:32:32.500 the other half are in like, geez, I don't even know some sort of lefty or something. Yeah. I mean,

00:32:38.780 it would just be really strange. And I don't have those kinds of friends on either side of the fence.

00:32:42.520 Probably it could make for an interesting party though. It could. Yeah. Just, yeah. Just no

00:32:46.620 alcohol. It's already going to be rowdy and you don't need to really do that. And you don't have

00:32:51.860 to curate your friends just based on their political beliefs. In fact, I advise you not to,

00:32:55.700 but I would say, look, read a book that's by go. If you're not conservative, you're, if you find

00:33:01.180 yourself leaning liberal, read a Glenn Beck or something like that, right? Go, go hog. Or if you find 0.90

00:33:08.280 yourself conservative, go and read a bio of like Barack Obama and everyone's already cringing.

00:33:13.720 Like, Oh, I don't want to do that. How I don't, I already know enough about that guy. Right?

00:33:16.940 Of course you've got to figure out how to branch out and it's only going to serve you. This isn't

00:33:22.180 about, well, I need to be more sensitive to other people's perspectives. No, sure. Great side effect,

00:33:28.380 but really what it is is figuring out exactly how other people think. And even if you think those people

00:33:34.200 taking it to an extreme, let's not even talk politics. I read tons of books about things like

00:33:39.420 ISIS. I look at all these Islamic movements and stuff online. It's not because I agree with what 1.00

00:33:44.620 they're doing. This is because I want to see what those people are thinking, what they're up to,

00:33:48.660 because obviously radical Muslim ISIS affiliated groups are enemies of basically everybody listening

00:33:54.660 to the show right now. Right? Right. I want to figure out what, what's going on there. I mean,

00:33:59.260 it's easy to just go, all those people are the devil, but that's not the real answer,

00:34:02.480 right? There's something going on that's created that movement. You have to understand it. And this

00:34:06.640 is probably just like the intelligence agency friends of mine talking here, but it's really good

00:34:12.340 to read all kinds of diverse books on diverse perspectives, even, and especially ones that you

00:34:17.220 disagree with, because you'll be able to figure out where the holes are in their logic. And you'll

00:34:21.640 also be able to figure out where the holes are in your own logic. And I think that's really,

00:34:25.380 really important politics aside. Yeah. I mean, this is kind of like, uh, what's the term red teaming

00:34:30.300 or sending or, or, or just testing your assumptions to make sure, is this really true? And you might

00:34:35.400 find out that it's not, which actually expands you as a human being. Yes, exactly. So when you talk

00:34:40.460 about, uh, building relationships with other people, whether that's people like you, people

00:34:44.400 different than you, you talk a lot about social capital and social capital, uh, the way that I

00:34:50.920 understand it is trying to provide value to other people or be more valuable in their life. Talk to me

00:34:57.080 about the concept when you talk about social capital, what that even means.

00:35:00.340 Ah, sure. So with social capital, essentially what we're talking about is building a stable

00:35:04.540 of relationships and people in your life that act as your support network, uh, referral currency.

00:35:11.420 There's a lot of different sort of categories that people fall into, but essentially let's not

00:35:16.040 overthink it. These are your friends, but in that's a very general comment. I think for

00:35:20.640 the businessmen listening and the entrepreneurs and things like that listening,

00:35:24.700 we're talking about the people that are going to send you business that are going to help you

00:35:28.680 advance your business. And in our personal lives, these are people that contribute in some way to

00:35:32.720 our life beneficially, no matter what that area is, friends, family, personal stuff. It doesn't

00:35:37.520 really matter. So you're talking about, I just want to make sure I rephrase this because it's

00:35:41.500 different than what I initially assumed. Cause I, I look at it and think, okay, what is the capital?

00:35:45.360 What is the, the resource or the value I'm providing to others? But the way you're saying it is what is

00:35:50.720 the value those people are providing to me and what I need in my life. Is that right?

00:35:55.340 Yeah. I mean, it doesn't really matter which way you look at it. Great question. Because honestly,

00:35:59.500 if they're bringing value to your life, you probably are, I would hope bringing value to

00:36:04.540 theirs as well. Or you got a big problem because think of it like a trade deficit in that respect.

00:36:10.160 I mean, if, if everybody's doing something for you and you're not doing anything for them,

00:36:13.260 well, you know, you got problems, but social capital flows both ways. I think for me,

00:36:17.300 the reason I framed it as such is just because again, a lot of people are looking for what's in

00:36:21.820 it for them. It's very few people are going to go, I really need to figure out ways in which I can

00:36:26.100 provide value to total strangers because why? Unless they want something, right? Like we talked

00:36:31.360 about early, unless they are looking for something, right? Right. Right. But even then we're still

00:36:35.400 talking about the benefits, right? So, so yeah, let's always frame it. And we always want to frame it in

00:36:40.140 the terms of the benefits. So I always frame social capital in terms of your referral currency,

00:36:45.020 the people in your network, but it is mostly about outgoing value. And so the way that the way

00:36:50.000 that we use this is essentially talking about networking and skills to create better relationships

00:36:54.720 at home and at work and with your family and friends. However, yeah, a lot of business people

00:36:58.920 and the people that send their folks, their organizations that send their folks through

00:37:02.840 the art of charm bootcamps, the live training that we have in LA, those people are coming through

00:37:06.940 because they want to learn how to apply this in their organization. So we had, um, we've had a lot

00:37:11.460 of special forces guys come through from the United States, from the UK, Australia. We've had DevGrew,

00:37:16.440 which is a seal team six. Some of those guys have come through green berets, things like that.

00:37:20.480 And the reason that they're coming through is because they have to learn how to deal with

00:37:25.060 people in other agencies, people in other branches, locals, depending on where they're deployed

00:37:29.240 and things like that. And even hostels as well. So we teach some of the social capital skillset here

00:37:34.980 is all about how do we get people to know, like, and trust you? How do we develop such a wide

00:37:40.380 and diverse network? And how are we able to help all these other people to the point where

00:37:44.720 we can scale it? You know, and that's, those are some of the skills that we're talking about here.

00:37:48.980 And in, with respect to your question, in terms of giving the value out or making sure that it's

00:37:54.600 outgoing and not just incoming, what we're talking about is essentially scalable generosity.

00:38:00.960 You, have you seen Glenn, Gary, Glenn Ross, where Alec Baldwin's like, always be closing ABC.

00:38:05.720 Right. Of course. Right. Okay. So ABC always be closing. What he's saying right there is like,

00:38:11.860 always go out, you know, you're generating a lead, you're moving the ball forward in each sale,

00:38:15.680 et cetera. We do ABG, ABG at AOC, essentially always be giving, uh, or always be generous.

00:38:22.920 And so what this means is this sort of encompasses both get help other people get what they want and

00:38:28.500 also the concept of not keeping score. And so what I'm saying here is essentially, if I want to

00:38:34.600 create a wide, diverse, useful, high value network, I want to constantly be reaching out to other

00:38:41.080 people and helping them. And after a while that becomes non scalable. So our generosity works

00:38:47.940 really well to get people to know, like, and trust us. However, you can't help a hundred and a hundred

00:38:52.660 fifty people a week without making it your full-time job. And so what we do is we essentially want to

00:38:58.280 scale this. And the way that we do that is by looking at different types of relationships

00:39:02.140 and figuring out who in our network can help other people in our network. So let's take an example

00:39:07.400 here. If I'm a graphic designer and I'm only trying to help other people, just ABG sort of tier one,

00:39:14.700 I can help other people that need graphic design or need consulting for graphic design or need an

00:39:19.580 artistic eye or something along those lines, right? I can only sort of help other people within the

00:39:25.060 scope of my talents. And that's great because you can do a great job for a lot of people, but you can't

00:39:30.680 help that many people because at any given point in time, a hundred, a hundred and fifty people out

00:39:36.020 of your net and your network or whatever, like that, they're not all, they're not all going to

00:39:39.120 need artistic advice, graphic design. They're not all going to need that. So you're basically stacked

00:39:43.480 there, benched, waiting for them to actually need something from you. And you can offer something

00:39:48.480 sure, but if they don't value it because the timing, they don't value it because of the timing.

00:39:52.740 That's a great way to get, to build some relationships, but it's not super efficient and it's not

00:39:57.000 super scalable because even if all 150 people in your network overnight needed graphic design ideas,

00:40:03.720 you can't help all those people at the same time. You're going to go crazy. You're going to have to

00:40:07.060 quit your job and break up with your girlfriend and, you know, put your kids with the babysitter

00:40:12.020 and have your parents come over and cook you meals because you're going to be helping people

00:40:15.740 24 seven and you're still not going to get it all done. And so what we try to do at AOC and one of the

00:40:22.240 concepts of social capital is to show how you can scale this. And we have systems in place for this,

00:40:26.340 of course, but one of the ways in which we look at these relationships is we say, okay,

00:40:30.880 Mark needs graphic design. I can help him directly. However, Ryan, he needs a dentist because he got a

00:40:37.620 toothache and he just moved to Albuquerque. I think I might know some people down there who are

00:40:42.120 physicians, not dentists, but they probably know some dentists and they know whether or not that

00:40:46.180 guy runs a good shop. So I'm going to reach out to both of them and connect them together.

00:40:50.820 And then that way I can connect a hundred people a week with email. And all I'm doing is sending

00:40:57.080 two or three emails to make that connection happen instead of trying to help that person

00:41:01.380 myself. Right. If you need a dentist and you're in another place and I'm not a dentist, well,

00:41:05.020 there's not much I can do for you. The only thing I really can do is make a referral to someone else

00:41:09.580 in my network. And then I've helped two people inside my network. So it becomes scalable. You'd have to

00:41:14.800 get into just thousands of people asking for your help at some point before this becomes

00:41:20.340 unsustainable. And at that point, you've got probably two or three assistants and you can

00:41:24.920 just outsource this. This is such a great point. And it actually, it's really interesting. You talk

00:41:28.780 about this because the way that you and I got connected originally was from John Corcoran. I

00:41:33.840 don't know if you remember that, but I actually reached out to him because I wanted to have him on

00:41:37.680 the show. And what he said is he said, I'm sorry, I'm busy. I've got this project or that project

00:41:42.140 going on. I can't come on the show, but I'd be happy to introduce you to Michael Port and you.

00:41:48.720 And so he did the same thing that you're talking about right now, which is why we're having the

00:41:51.560 conversation we're having today. Perfect. Yeah. I mean, that's, that sounds about right. And I know

00:41:56.560 that that works really, really well because I've been doing it for years. And John Corcoran's a great

00:42:00.500 example because he does all this stuff real well. And, um, and this is a great way to actually

00:42:05.820 consistently help other people in a way that costs you basically nothing. And, oh, I want to go

00:42:12.120 over some tactics here. I know I'm talking a million miles an hour because I'm all jazzed

00:42:16.120 up and I had a lot of caffeine today, but I want to teach people how to create those connections

00:42:21.020 because I said, send two or three emails and they're probably thinking I can do it in one.

00:42:25.040 I just write to both of them at the same time and say, Ryan meet Jordan, Jordan meet Ryan.

00:42:28.860 And I bounce out. Right. Yeah. Done. And, um, that sometimes works okay, but honestly I have a

00:42:34.940 better way. And that way is called the double opt-in. And I may have mentioned this in another

00:42:40.060 time that we've spoken, although I can't remember. It's been something I've been kind

00:42:43.680 of, I don't think we've gone over it. So yeah, let's do it. Cool. The double opt-in is really

00:42:47.700 useful because what it does is it avoids embarrassing the people that you're introducing

00:42:53.080 and it avoids, it avoids embarrassing yourself, frankly, as well. And also it saves other people

00:42:58.560 time and effort. And so the way that it works is like this. I might know you really well.

00:43:03.840 And I think, oh, you know what? Ryan should meet Mark because Ryan's starting a podcast and

00:43:08.740 my friend Mark has had a podcast for years. I should introduce them. Well, the standard

00:43:13.140 way would be to copy you both on an email and say, Hey, you guys should know each other.

00:43:16.980 You're starting a show. But here's a couple of the problems that can go along with that.

00:43:20.840 You might already know Mark and Mark might already know you and you might like each other.

00:43:24.620 And then it's like, yeah, we already know each other. And then it was kind of a waste of

00:43:27.200 time. And I looked like, oh, I didn't really do my homework there. And it's no big deal

00:43:31.120 though. Cause it's just an email. We just archive it, but it sort of looks like, yeah,

00:43:34.620 we hung out. We all had dinner once. Remember? Yeah. We did this already. Yeah. We did this

00:43:39.140 already. Or like I introduced you to Mark. Remember? Oh yeah, that's right. The other

00:43:43.560 thing is you might know Mark and Mark might know you, but you guys might not like each

00:43:47.920 other or you might not like him, but he does like you. And he's been trying to reach you

00:43:51.580 for a while. And then it's like, ah, I just blew you up big time. Yep. And because you're

00:43:56.940 like, oh, thanks, Jordan. I've been avoiding this guy. Now I got to, now I got to engage

00:44:02.000 here. Now I got to reply. Otherwise I look like I'm disrespectful to you. Or if I don't

00:44:05.680 reply, then now I'm the bad guy and the monkey's on my back and I've got to make something up

00:44:10.080 or, or be, you know, honest with this guy and tell him how I feel. And I don't really

00:44:13.980 want to do that either. Cause it's going to be an emotional thing. You can avoid all of

00:44:17.600 that by reaching out to each person. Hey, Ryan, do you know, Mark, Mark, do you know, Ryan,

00:44:22.680 these are separate emails. And then that gives each person the opportunity to say yes or no.

00:44:28.960 And please don't introduce me or no, I don't please do introduce me. You can get the backstory.

00:44:34.180 And the reason you don't just do it with one person is you can get the backstory on both.

00:44:38.520 And you can frankly just introduce by doing an opt in first on the person who you think

00:44:43.180 is maybe more busy. So if it, right, if you're like, Hey Jordan, can you introduce me to general

00:44:49.200 Stanley McChrystal? I might say sure thing. But the first thing I'm going to do is email

00:44:53.640 general McChrystal and say, look, are you still doing interviews? Do you have time for another

00:44:56.920 one? Cause he might go, man, I'm burned out. I lost my voice. Can't do it. And then I go,

00:45:01.520 great. I'll circle back with you in three months. And then that way you're not put out. He's not

00:45:06.400 put out. And I don't look like an idiot. Well, you don't want to alienate that relationship with 1.00

00:45:10.160 general McChrystal, for example. Exactly. Like he might do it if I introduce you

00:45:14.360 without any warning, but then he might go crap. Next time this guy, Jordan sends me an email, 0.86

00:45:19.300 I'm just going to, you know, quietly archive it or have my assistant right back and go,

00:45:23.660 the general doesn't check his email anymore. How can I help you? Oh, he's nevermind. You can

00:45:28.100 lose access if you use it. And, and frankly, I'll tell you what, I know a lot of people that do this

00:45:34.140 and I don't blame them. I've, the reason I know this is because I've done this wrong a bunch of

00:45:37.980 times, right? Years and years ago, I used to just copy everybody and be like, y'all should know each

00:45:42.520 other. And then occasionally one in 10 times you get an email back, like, actually, you know what?

00:45:47.700 This is a person that stole from me like five years ago. And I don't, I didn't even have my email.

00:45:52.440 Thanks for that. Now they're emailing me all the time and I got to avoid them.

00:45:55.740 You only have to be burned once to learn not to touch the stove.

00:45:59.000 I love it, man. Well, Jordan, we've been all over the place with this thing,

00:46:01.420 but I think it's good. It's all valuable stuff. It's all relationship building. It's all ability

00:46:05.120 to connect with other people, which I think is something a lot of guys, myself included,

00:46:08.720 need to improve on constantly. So I want to tell you, I appreciate you coming on the show and

00:46:12.340 talking about that. I got to shift gears because there hasn't been in the 100 plus interviews that

00:46:17.160 I've done that I have not asked this question. And because we got right into the

00:46:20.500 conversation today, I didn't even prepare you for it, which I apologize for. But the question

00:46:24.920 is, what does it mean to be a man? Do you think you can answer that on the spot?

00:46:28.260 Yeah, totally. There are so many things that you can say here that are going to sound intelligent

00:46:31.760 and smart, but I'll tell you from somebody who is thinking about this concept quite a bit

00:46:36.860 and apropos what we were talking about earlier, I would say a man is not only constantly evaluating

00:46:43.920 his responsibilities, but is very intentional in doing so. So earlier in the show,

00:46:48.060 we talked about the intentional or intentionality of going through your friends and who's around

00:46:52.880 you and trying to level up and making sure that you have the right people in your life.

00:46:56.540 I think being a man is dealing in part, of course, dealing with the consequences of these kind of

00:47:01.880 thought exercises. And this is really important, right? Because if this means, you know, I've been

00:47:07.860 letting my college roommate sleep in my place, you know, for the last six months and it screwed up my

00:47:13.700 dating life, it screwed up my friendship, you know, he's driving me down, he's really negative,

00:47:16.920 but I know, I know, I've known the guy for six years, but I just can't deal with it anymore.

00:47:21.220 A boy would say, screw it, man, you know, like whatever, who cares? I'm at work all the time

00:47:27.140 anyway, or, you know, he'll leave soon or whatever. A man will go, you know what, this is going to be

00:47:32.660 an uncomfortable, tough conversation, but I just need to do it. I need to handle it. Or, and, you know,

00:47:37.880 looking at these kinds of responsibilities and shortcomings and really taking them. If you look in the

00:47:42.180 mirror and you go, I'm really overweight instead of a boy goes, you know, whatever, it's not that

00:47:47.500 bad, you know, and I work, I got good clothes and you know what, if she doesn't like me for me, 1.00

00:47:51.200 then fuck her, man, whatever, bro. Or like, I'm really busy. I just started a new job. Whatever 1.00

00:47:56.380 excuse you're believing, a man will go, yeah, I got to get this handled. That won't necessarily

00:48:01.540 beat yourself up about it. You don't have to say, I'm so fat. Nobody loves me, but it's just,

00:48:05.500 yep. Okay. Enough of this crap. I'm sick of it. I'm going to get the problem solved. And I've

00:48:09.300 noticed that people who have successful businesses and people who have successful relationships,

00:48:13.380 they attack these problems head on. And they're actively looking for the problem. They're actively

00:48:18.620 looking for the solution all the time instead of making excuses and believing them. And I think

00:48:23.300 that's, that's got to go hand in hand with my definition of being a man, at least as far as my

00:48:27.600 own development. Because when I was a boy, I believed a lot of my own BS. And as a man now, 37,

00:48:32.920 37, getting married, it's just like this, these last five years or so have been the years of just

00:48:38.660 nope, nope. Got to get a handle. Don't believe this. Any excuse I come up with just calling it out

00:48:44.120 and taking action anyway. I love it, man. Right in line with what we talk about. And congratulations

00:48:48.120 on the engagement as well. Thank you. I appreciate that. Exciting news. Well, cool, man. How do we

00:48:53.380 connect with you? I'm going to make sure we do some killer show notes. So the guys get everything that

00:48:57.040 we talked about, including the tactics and drills you talked about, but how do we connect with you and learn

00:49:00.700 more, man? Yeah. You know, you're listening to a podcast right now. Just check out the art of

00:49:05.060 charm. There's tons of practical stuff. I'm all about the practical stuff, body language, vocal

00:49:09.300 tonality, relationship development, mentorship, persuasion, influence, all that's at the art of

00:49:14.780 charm podcast. And if, if you're for some reason running around and you can't go into your podcast app,

00:49:19.540 just go to the art of charm.com. And we have a challenge there where we help people get out their

00:49:24.440 comfort zone, develop relationships at the art of charm.com as well. And if you're in your car,

00:49:29.220 you can just text the word charmed, C-H-A-R-M-E-D to the number 33444. And we'll send all

00:49:36.400 the stuff to your inbox. So you can basically lock, you can get this stuff from your phone,

00:49:40.580 which is sweet. Yes, it works right on, man. We'll make sure we, uh, we link that all up so

00:49:45.360 the guys can check that out. Jordan, I appreciate you, man. I appreciate who you are. I appreciate

00:49:48.900 how you show up quite honestly. And, uh, you're somebody I look to, I don't know if I've told you

00:49:52.500 this, but somebody that I look up to as a, uh, really frankly, a master of your craft. I mean,

00:49:56.760 your ability to interview and connect with other people is inspiring. And it's definitely led me

00:50:00.580 down the right track when it comes to the podcast and the things I'm trying to do here. So I

00:50:03.760 appreciate you and I appreciate taking your time to visit with us today. Well, thank you, man. That's

00:50:07.200 very humbling and it's awesome to hear. So I appreciate you sharing that. And I appreciate

00:50:11.200 the opportunity to be on your show and speak with your audience. There it is guys. Another great

00:50:16.500 conversation with Jordan Harbinger about the power of building up your social capital. If you're not

00:50:21.380 already following Jordan at the art of charm, I would encourage you to do that,

00:50:24.360 do that immediately. But in the meantime, if you are a high achieving man or at a minimum,

00:50:29.000 you're an ambitious man, I want to invite you again to join our exclusive mastermind,

00:50:32.540 the iron council. We've got the tools, the questions, the answers, the resources,

00:50:36.200 the guidance to help you take your life to the next level. And most importantly,

00:50:40.260 we've got the accountability in place to ensure that you stick to what you talk about sticking to.

00:50:46.280 So you can see what we're all about. You can join us at order of men.com slash iron council guys.

00:50:50.860 I will look forward to talk with you on Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then,

00:50:54.080 take action and become the man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man

00:50:59.320 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:51:04.100 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - March 14, 2017

104： Building Social Capital ｜ Jordan Harbinger

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