Order of Man

00:00:00.000 There is no doubt that a dog is a man's best friend. They're loyal, hardworking, and dedicated

00:00:04.280 to the task at hand and the men who care for them. But training a dog poses a set of unique

00:00:08.980 challenges. I know I have a new puppy myself. Today, Navy SEAL Mike Ritlin joins me to talk

00:00:13.600 about how we can better connect with our dogs, the biggest challenge when training them,

00:00:18.020 the best way to communicate with them, learning patience, and why exactly dogs are a man's best

00:00:23.220 friend. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly

00:00:28.240 chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:33.920 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This

00:00:40.360 is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said

00:00:45.420 and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name

00:00:50.020 is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder of this podcast, The Order of Man. As always,

00:00:54.840 I'm glad that you're tuning back in regardless of if this is your first time listening in or

00:00:59.620 you've been listening in for a couple of months now, which is actually weird to say. I can't

00:01:03.260 believe we've been going strong for that long now, but we are just getting started. For those

00:01:07.040 of you who are listening who might not already know this, this is a show about being a better

00:01:11.500 man, a better father, a husband, community leader, businessman, you name it. Each and every

00:01:15.560 week, we interview the world's most successful men from all over the planet, and we take their

00:01:19.740 lessons they have to share, and we impart them with you. If you have not already subscribed,

00:01:25.340 guys, make sure that you subscribe. I don't want you to ever miss one of these shows or

00:01:29.940 the Friday field notes, which we put out each Friday. It makes sense. Also, if you're looking

00:01:33.880 for the notes for this show, including the books that we touch on, go to orderman.com slash

00:01:38.760 one zero six. If you want to have some manly conversations on anything from getting a promotion

00:01:44.620 to connecting with your wife to what type of firearm you should own, head to facebook.com

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00:01:59.860 the iron council. This is only for guys who are serious, serious about doing the work to improve

00:02:04.500 their lives. I'm going to tell you about it more during the break, but for now know that you can get

00:02:08.860 the details and claim your spot at order of man.com slash iron council guys. I am so stoked to bring

00:02:14.160 this interview to you. A couple of months ago, my eight year old son brought home a book from the

00:02:19.360 book fair and it was titled Navy sealed dogs. And he asked if I'd read it to him each night. I'd read

00:02:23.780 it to him while we'd both get lost in tales of the finest military working dogs out there. In fact,

00:02:29.820 this book inspired me and my son to get our own German shepherd puppy, which is now four months old.

00:02:35.900 I want to learn more about the man who wrote the book and train these dogs that he talked about.

00:02:40.840 So I looked up the author and after learning more about him and enrolling in his own training course,

00:02:46.040 I knew I had to have him on the show. His name is Mike Ritland. He spent 12 years in the Navy

00:02:50.280 seals. He trained military dogs as well as training for the department of defense department of

00:02:56.040 Homeland security, TSA, us customs and border patrol. But not only that, he's also the author

00:03:01.160 of three books. The one I told you about Navy seal dogs, also team dog and trident canine warriors.

00:03:06.220 He contributes to Fox, NBC, ABC, soft rep men's journal. So, you know, this guy knows what he's

00:03:13.080 talking about. He even collaborated on the game call of duty ghost. And then on top of all that,

00:03:17.720 he founded a nonprofit called warrior dog foundation. He talks a little bit about that

00:03:22.240 in his interview geared towards serving military working dogs and their families. Fellas, if you've

00:03:27.560 got a dog or are thinking about getting a dog, stay tuned as this guy is about to drop some serious

00:03:32.940 canine knowledge. Mike, thanks for joining me on the show today.

00:03:38.200 That's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

00:03:39.800 I was mentioning to you earlier, my son and I actually ran across your work. He came home

00:03:45.220 with a book, Navy seal dogs, and just insisted that I read that to him. And ever since then,

00:03:50.380 he's been hooked. I told you he wants to be a cowboy animal doctor is what he wants to be.

00:03:54.900 And I'm really excited to talk with you. I know he's going to be really excited by the fact that I get

00:03:59.020 to talk with you. But I'd like to know a little bit about why dogs have become so valuable. I've

00:04:04.240 always been a dog guy. I know a lot of guys listening to this podcast are dog guys. What

00:04:09.240 is it about dogs and our connection with them? That's a great question. And it's one that I think

00:04:14.400 really highlights everything that I've been doing personally and professionally for most of my adult

00:04:19.720 life as it relates to dogs. From my perspective, in short, it's just a bond and a loyalty and a

00:04:26.700 relationship thing that, for me at least, it's actually the nonverbal component of it. And by

00:04:32.980 that, I mean that us as human beings are so overwhelmingly verbal in how we communicate,

00:04:38.900 whereas dogs are not. Something as simple as just realizing that they don't think in a language

00:04:43.880 the way we do or that they don't communicate verbally the way we do. Almost everything is

00:04:49.860 through body language and nonverbal communication. And so because of that, it makes them very,

00:04:55.080 very black and white. They're very face value animals. And so what I really like about that

00:05:01.300 is the lack of gray area. Whereas with human beings, it seems like everything is gray area.

00:05:06.900 It's perception. It's how things are taken. It's the tone and inflection. And well, did you really

00:05:11.960 mean that? Or I don't like the way you said that. All those types of things. And the fact is that human

00:05:18.260 beings, I would say arguably are probably the greediest of the species. You know, most people,

00:05:24.640 it's hard to trust them. And, you know, people break your trust all the time and a lot of ulterior

00:05:29.380 motives. And with dogs, there just isn't. One of the ways I like to open when people ask that

00:05:34.040 question or if I do, you know, I do a lot of speaking engagements and things of that nature or

00:05:38.000 training conferences. And I like to open it with, you know, if you want to find out who loves you

00:05:43.080 more, your spouse or your dog, lock both of them in the trunk for two hours. And after that two

00:05:47.920 hours, pop it open. Who's happier to see you? Right. As simple and kind of funny, the joke is

00:05:53.260 there's actually a lot of truth in it and that, you know, that's how dogs are. They're just there

00:05:57.320 in the moment. They're very black and white and they are a very, very good mirror of who you are

00:06:03.340 as a person, you know, in terms of how they interact with you. So there's so many things that

00:06:07.480 they bring to the table relationship wise and just a lot of life lessons in terms of being

00:06:12.020 consistent, being fair, doing the right things and putting the time in and getting out what you put

00:06:17.700 in. And there's a lot of parallels, I think, to the relationship that you have with a dog or can

00:06:21.880 have with a dog and how it relates to all of aspects of life. So, you know, to me, obviously,

00:06:26.980 they're just, I wouldn't even say they're a big part of my life. I mean, they are who I am,

00:06:31.040 you know, and all of those things are big contributing factors as to why they're that way for me.

00:06:36.200 So you talk about this way that they communicate and obviously I've experienced that. I told you we just

00:06:41.060 picked up a new puppy. He's about nine, ten weeks old and it's a parent and it always has been to me

00:06:46.940 ever since I've been little and had dogs that they communicate differently. Is this like a separate

00:06:52.720 sense that they communicate with and how do we tap into or even understand what that is?

00:06:57.800 The first part of your question, you know, is it a different sense? To me, no. To me, I view it,

00:07:02.840 you know, in no different than it's just a mechanism and how they learn and how they communicate.

00:07:07.940 And so, you know, to me, the biggest problem that people have and the biggest mistake they make is

00:07:14.000 that they view the world through our perspective, through the human perspective, which is overwhelmingly

00:07:18.980 verbal and then it's visual and then it's nonverbal and body language in terms of communication. So

00:07:24.060 one of the analogies I like to use is if you can see somebody walking across the parking lot that's

00:07:30.040 having a bad day or, you know, if you and I are standing in a crowded area and you see two guys

00:07:35.140 meeting for the first time, you can tell from a hundred yards away if that's a pleasant meeting

00:07:40.280 where they're cordial with each other, smiling, shaking hands, everything's cool versus, you know,

00:07:44.580 two guys about to get into a fight. You know, you and I can recognize that without hearing anything

00:07:48.820 they're saying, things of that nature. So if it's that easy for us as overwhelmingly verbal

00:07:54.480 communicators and such to be able to recognize that, now imagine a dog who, again, that's the only

00:07:59.620 way they communicate. You know, and again, the big thing that I hope people take away is just

00:08:05.020 something as simple as, you know, you and I think in language. They do not think that way. You know,

00:08:10.760 they're simple association animals that connect dots and use context for everything. Context can be a

00:08:18.100 beautiful thing and it can bite you in the backside too, depending on what you're trying to do. You know,

00:08:23.460 you can create it and do a lot of amazing things with your dog or in some instances you can create

00:08:29.060 it unknowingly or undesirably and create problems that you didn't realize you created and you

00:08:34.340 absolutely don't want. So then you've got to work to actually break that context. But because of that,

00:08:39.040 it's the single largest, most important component to training a dog, to having a dog, owning a dog,

00:08:44.440 working with a dog is just understanding the world through their perspective and no different than,

00:08:49.440 you know, a coach relating to their athletes or a teacher to their students or a boss to their

00:08:54.740 employees. You know, it's all the same thing and it doesn't matter how any of those people in those

00:08:59.680 leadership roles view what's going on. What matters is the people that they're trying to teach. Do they

00:09:04.600 understand it? And that's the key component is that, you know, you and I know what our expectations

00:09:08.880 of the dog is. He has no idea. So you have to remember that, you know, I see it all the time where

00:09:14.060 people, they'll get a brand new dog and they'll say, sit, sit, you know, and push the dog's butt.

00:09:19.320 Down and try to get up to sit. And again, if you think about it from a dog that doesn't speak that

00:09:23.780 language that was born into this world with no expectations of sitting on command, it's pretty

00:09:28.440 ridiculous. You know, it's, it's very easy to teach that stuff through nonverbal communication

00:09:32.660 and just reinforcement, basically free shaping behavior, but just having the right mindset of

00:09:37.440 understanding where the dog is coming from and how they think and how they learn puts you a thousand

00:09:42.220 steps closer to the right direction than, than trying to do it from, from our perspective.

00:09:46.660 How do you build that awareness in yourself? Because I know even when I've tried to, for

00:09:51.320 example, train this puppy or other dogs that we've had, frankly, I've been frustrated with

00:09:55.960 the communication process. And I think our conversation is selfish just as much as it is

00:09:59.740 anything else. Having you on the show today where we have this new puppy, how do you build

00:10:03.780 that awareness so that you can communicate effectively in a way that the dog understands?

00:10:09.440 The biggest thing is just like with anything is practice. It does take some finesse and some

00:10:14.520 practice to get good at it. But I will say that it's very, very simple. And, you know,

00:10:19.080 some of the, some of the lessons that I do videos for on my team dog online training communities

00:10:25.360 kind of showcases that and showing, you know, something as simple as a, as a place command

00:10:30.240 or really pick any behavior that you want. And just think of it in terms of you're kind

00:10:34.740 of removing yourself from the equation other than you're just an observer. You're not

00:10:38.860 luring, you're not chewing, you're not forcing or manipulating the dog into any position or

00:10:43.640 any desired behavior. You're letting them learn through self-discovery. And to me, that's one

00:10:48.920 of the most powerful and important tools is letting the dog figure it out, you know, and

00:10:55.480 it takes patience and you start small, you know, I mean, you can start with eye contact

00:10:59.420 as, as example, is that you stand there and you have a bag of frozen Bill Jack or whatever

00:11:04.120 treats you want to use and a clicker. And every time the dog's eyes make contact with

00:11:08.200 ears, you click and give them something. It can start with something that small. And so

00:11:12.300 you're just, you're, you're basically teaching and communicating to the dog that eye contact

00:11:16.340 equals something good. And that's really all it's, all it's doing. If you think of the

00:11:19.800 clicker, like a camera, it's taking a snapshot of the desired behavior and it's showing him,

00:11:25.440 this is what I want. And when you do that, something good comes of it. It's just a lot

00:11:29.700 of repetition and making sure that, that your timing is, is correct. And when he does anything

00:11:35.240 that you want, I mean, when I start out, I do this with whether it's an eight week old

00:11:38.980 puppy or a 10 year old retired dog that's, that's grumpy and has been through a bunch

00:11:42.800 of police or military deployments and has some behavioral issues that we've got to work

00:11:47.480 through. And, and everything in between is that I take a bag of that frozen dog food thought

00:11:52.120 out with a clicker. And I just walk around my training field and I ignore the dog. Uh, and

00:11:56.240 every time the dog comes over to me, I'd market reward it with, give them a little piece.

00:12:00.140 And then I turn around and purposely walk away from it almost like a reverse psychology

00:12:03.880 thing. But in a few short sessions, he learns and understands that, that coming in and just

00:12:09.680 checking in with me is, is a good thing and he's going to be rewarded for it. And so it

00:12:13.400 starts with that. And then from there it's okay. Now it's eye contact. Now it's when he

00:12:17.600 sits on his own, I market and reward it. He downs, you know, he spins around, he checks

00:12:21.540 something out and I call his name and he comes back to me, you know, it's breaking it down

00:12:25.080 to the lowest common denominator, the shortest, simplest step that you can, especially

00:12:29.880 initially, and then just marking, rewarding it, reinforcing it and drilling it over and

00:12:34.460 over and getting those reps. You know, the, the analogies, uh, are endless really in terms

00:12:38.680 of, of how you're going about it because of the muscle memory aspect. If you think about

00:12:43.240 it, like your name, for example, if you're in a busy crowded area and somebody yells your

00:12:47.900 name, you know, you don't have to think to look over and see who yelled at. You just do

00:12:51.860 it because you've heard your name enough from the military side. You know, when we get on

00:12:56.640 a flat range and shoot over and over and over, uh, and this is mastering the basics for,

00:13:01.320 for any profession, I don't care what it is. When you transfer from, from a decision to a

00:13:06.480 reaction, that's when it's a trained behavior with shooting. As an example, you know, I can

00:13:11.120 go on a, on a flat range and if I pull the trigger and nothing happens, I go through a

00:13:15.340 protocol, you know, a tap rack bang protocol that, that clears that jam or fixes the gun and

00:13:20.460 gets it back up online. I don't have to think about doing that anymore because I've done

00:13:24.500 it so many times it just happens to me. What I consider a dog fully trained is when whatever

00:13:30.540 commands or desired behaviors I have that I want out of that dog are those conditioned

00:13:35.160 responses. Basically they, they just happen when you, when you dictate them. So again,

00:13:39.760 it starts with the simplest, most basic step of eye contact of checking in of when I walk

00:13:46.300 and you're walking next to me, I mark reward another couple of steps, mark reward, another

00:13:50.000 couple of steps, mark reward to teach healing or to teach staying or downing or whatever.

00:13:54.480 Whatever it is that you want to teach, you know, the nice thing about it is that you

00:13:57.860 don't need a manual to do it. It's really, you know, decide whatever it is that you want

00:14:01.920 out of the dog and that's, you know, always going to rely on personal preference and let

00:14:06.400 them figure out how to do it. And when they start to do it, you mark it and reward it.

00:14:10.120 And then you just build on that and build on that. And the neat thing is that they learn

00:14:13.720 how to learn. You know, you take a dog that's never done any clicker training and has no

00:14:17.580 idea. And in a couple of weeks you can teach all the five basic behaviors. You can teach

00:14:22.760 place commands, loading up in a crate, jumping up into the back of a vehicle, staying, not

00:14:27.200 barking, not jumping up. I mean, they're, you know, dogs are very eager to learn, generally

00:14:31.340 speaking. And if you just use a little bit of motivation and some good reinforcement

00:14:35.040 coupled with good timing, the sky's the limit as to what you can teach them. And it becomes

00:14:39.980 really, really enjoyable for both you and the dog. And one of the exercises I like to do

00:14:44.500 with handlers when I put, you know, you know, police or military handlers through training

00:14:48.160 is we do an exercise where I just take a, basically a junk drawer and dump it out on

00:14:53.460 a table. And you use an e-collar and one exercise where you put the collar around a guy's arm

00:14:59.000 and then the quote unquote handler has the remote. And you're trying to teach him a simple

00:15:03.760 behavior. And so what I'll do is I'll take the handler outside and I'll say, hey, I want

00:15:07.180 you to teach your dog, in this case the human, to take three die and stack them on top of each

00:15:13.160 other with a rubber band sitting on top. And this is out of a junk drawer with, you know,

00:15:16.920 40 other just random items from your house. And so every time the dog or the human gets

00:15:22.860 it wrong, doesn't grab the right thing, he gets shocked very quickly. The guy just says,

00:15:26.600 I'm not touching anything anymore. On the transverse, you use a clicker and jelly beans

00:15:31.160 or M&Ms or whatever. Every time, you know, he grabs the wrong thing, nothing happens.

00:15:35.500 When he grabs the dice, mark reward, you know? And so it's astounding the things that you

00:15:41.280 can teach somebody to do without saying a word just by marking and reinforcing. And every

00:15:46.080 time you can pick something that random, but yet that complicated and with a matter of five

00:15:51.160 to seven minutes, you can have that task performed with a clicker and reward. And it does not

00:15:56.000 ever happen with an e-collar, you know? And so it just, it really hammers home the value

00:16:00.600 of reinforcement and positive training. So it's a very effective tool.

00:16:05.420 Yeah. I mean, this is fascinating because we can even take this conversation and apply some

00:16:09.080 of the lessons. Obviously we're going to do it different, but apply some of the lessons

00:16:11.720 to how to raise kids, how to communicate with your wife or coworkers or whatever it may be.

00:16:15.720 So I'd really see the value in this. It's fascinating that you talk about this clicker

00:16:19.440 training. I have never done this with another dog prior to, cause I actually joined your

00:16:24.660 team dog online training and my son and I go through that with our puppy and we've never

00:16:29.720 used a clicker before. And I've always done, you know, you push his butt down and you say,

00:16:33.920 good job. And you give him reward for sitting and you teach him that command. But what was

00:16:37.380 really interesting is we walked through this clicker training with him and we did just what

00:16:40.840 you said. He immediately started picking up on if he sits there, like he'll walk up to us and then

00:16:47.620 sit and then he'll get the click and the reward. And so he's learning to sit. And now even at eight

00:16:53.380 weeks, I can just be walking by the house. He'll come walk by me. I'll stop and he'll just sit there

00:16:58.360 right by me. And I've never had to use that type of command. So I can see how this works. It's pretty

00:17:03.120 incredible, actually. Two major points I'd bring up to dovetail onto that. Number one is that from

00:17:08.060 another angle of mammal or animal training is, you know, you think of SeaWorld or in my case,

00:17:15.200 from my Navy background, you know, the marine mammal program of using dolphins to come combat,

00:17:20.520 you know, any type of threat in bays or oceans around our ships or harbors rather, or you take SeaWorld

00:17:26.920 or any of those or even zoos, for an example. All of these are big, dangerous animals that, you know,

00:17:32.760 you're not going to put a prong collar on Shamu and make him do anything. Sure. Sure. You know,

00:17:37.360 so the fact that they can get those animals to do some pretty incredible things through shaping and

00:17:42.420 reinforcement, you know, tells you a lot of, a lot about that. You know, zoos are another really

00:17:46.520 good example. You know, there's certain, there are some zoos that have done a lot of progressive

00:17:51.100 reinforcement training and have gotten 500 pound silverback gorillas as an example that prior to

00:17:56.580 trying this, you know, they had to tranquilize them with a, with a dart, let that happen and then go do

00:18:01.620 what they need to do. And now they've got control to the point where, you know, the animal will

00:18:05.320 voluntarily come into a cage, be locked into it, be given inoculations, inspected their eyes, their

00:18:10.580 mouth, their teeth, nose, ears, poke and prod them and feel all over them and do it with, with success

00:18:16.220 again, voluntarily because they're just using reinforcement training. And then the second part

00:18:20.580 of that is that utilizing this for raising kids or dealing with spouses or business partners or coaches

00:18:25.880 with athletes, pick any medium. And it all works the exact same way. You know, the fact of it is,

00:18:30.540 is that with everything, communication is the backbone of, of all of it. And any of us have

00:18:36.020 had relationships where, again, whether it's with a spouse or kids or whatever, where the

00:18:40.060 communication was not working the way that it needed to be. And you see it, you know, it's

00:18:44.460 frustrating. It's inefficient. It just doesn't work very well. And on the transverse, when everything's

00:18:49.540 firing on all cylinders, it works phenomenally. And, uh, and it's a well-oiled machine. And so dogs

00:18:54.680 are no different. It's just a matter of, of knowing how to communicate to them. And communication again,

00:18:59.700 that is in the eye of the beholder in terms of you as the person that's trying to train

00:19:04.220 the subject, you have to relate to them and you have to get them to understand that it can't be,

00:19:09.160 well, this is how I see it. And this is how it's going to happen, or, or you're going to be

00:19:12.780 inefficient and you're not going to get out of what, uh, what you're trying to accomplish. But

00:19:16.360 another analogy I like to use, you know, to hit that or drive that point home is that, you know,

00:19:21.580 for the married folks out there, if you're, you share a household and you spend all day,

00:19:26.380 you know, you have the day off and your, your significant other is at work and you spend the

00:19:29.880 entire day cleaning the whole house top to bottom and you really work hard at doing it. And you put

00:19:34.360 all this time and effort into it. And then, you know, your wife comes home and the first thing

00:19:37.480 she notices is that, yeah, the house is clean, but, uh, you swept the floors and dusted everything.

00:19:42.140 And the trash is full of paper towels and all the crap that you clean. That's the first thing she

00:19:47.040 notices is you didn't take trash out. How likely are you to clean the house the next time? Not,

00:19:51.920 not at all. Right. Whereas on the transverse, if you know, she comes home and you can, you can pick

00:19:57.320 a number of things that she could do to, to show her appreciation for you, you know, without saying

00:20:01.820 a word and that's what happens. And then chances are, you're probably going to clean the house every

00:20:05.480 time she leaves. So just, just that simple paradigm shift of communicating properly of, of rewarding

00:20:12.060 and reinforcing things that you want really the sky's the limit. I mean, you can teach a dog almost

00:20:17.520 anything. And, and it's, you know, the neat thing about reinforcement training is, is that, you know,

00:20:22.380 it doesn't require a ton of equipment. I mean, it's a clicker and food or toys or depending on, you know,

00:20:27.180 what the dog is driven for, but it's not really a system. It's, it's just a methodology and it works

00:20:31.960 on the grandmother's labradoodle that won't stop jumping up on people and all the way up to a federal

00:20:38.020 hostage rescue team SWAT dog that you're trying to get to stop barking before he goes into, into a

00:20:43.580 building to bite somebody. So, and everything between the principles and the constants of basic

00:20:49.720 psychology as it relates to learning and reinforcement are the same regardless of, of what the

00:20:54.280 subjects are. So it's really neat. Or the species it sounds like based on whether that's a dog or a

00:20:58.800 human or any other animal like a gorilla like you mentioned. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you know,

00:21:03.320 learning is learning. And I mean, the fact of the matter is, is that if something good comes out of

00:21:07.640 doing something, it's going to continue to happen or, or with more frequency, you know, one of the most

00:21:12.080 poignant quotes, I forget who, who this is from. It's, it's absolutely not mine, but, but it's,

00:21:17.640 it's very simple, incredibly poignant. And one of the most lasting quotes that I have as relates to,

00:21:23.340 to reinforcement training is any behavior that's reinforced is likely to occur again. It's, it's

00:21:29.480 very simple, but, but it's the truth. If something that you want to happen happens and you, you pay

00:21:34.960 them for it, chances are it's going to happen again. And just by taking that and using that as your

00:21:39.760 backbone and it works both ways, you know, if it's something that you want, you reinforce it.

00:21:43.560 If it's something that you don't want, you extinguish it by removing that reinforcement.

00:21:47.360 And a lot of times when it becomes to little behavioral issues with dogs jumping up on people

00:21:52.040 or pulling on leashes or losing their mind, when you grab the leash to go for a walk or being

00:21:56.640 guardy over food, food bills, you know, almost all of those behavioral issues and dogs are, are

00:22:02.680 learned unknowingly by the owner. They're, they're essentially taught and reinforced. You know,

00:22:07.480 a good example is being too, too pushy for affection. You know, I'm sitting on the couch,

00:22:12.120 the dog comes up and, you know, sits there and I pet him and then he sits and I don't

00:22:15.740 pet him. So he nudges me a little bit and then I pet him. And then he, he sits and he nudges

00:22:19.660 me. I don't pet him. He nudges me harder and harder and harder. And then, okay, buddy.

00:22:22.720 And then I pet him, you know, what, what you're doing is you're teaching that dog to be a pest.

00:22:26.900 To nudge, right.

00:22:27.720 Yeah. You know, and, and a lot of people do that and they don't even realize they're doing it.

00:22:31.520 They, they wait until the dog is annoying them to the point where they're like, oh, geez, okay,

00:22:34.860 I'll pet you. And all you're doing is teaching him to be incredibly persistent in, in his nudging

00:22:39.520 for affection. So little things like that, almost all behaviors that I see that are undesirable or

00:22:45.860 unwanted that people try to extinguish her or grab a, an e-collar or a prong collar to try to

00:22:50.900 quote unquote, beat it out of the dog or things that they created. And just as easily or, or as

00:22:56.000 simply rather as, as they were created, they can be unlearned and extinguished in what I call breaking

00:23:01.780 the context. An example is, you know, we'll use that same example is that when that dog comes and

00:23:06.300 nudges me, a lot of people say no and, you know, and push the dog or, or even smack him or yell at

00:23:11.380 him or talk to him. And you're still giving him attention. Even if it's not that enjoyable, it's

00:23:15.760 still, it's, it's interacting. It's engaging.

00:23:18.340 Yeah. Like the troubled child who's searching for attention as well. I can see what you're saying.

00:23:22.900 Yeah. Yeah. The squeaky wheel, you know? So, so what I do very simply is that when the dog nudges,

00:23:27.300 I sit there, I don't look at him. I don't talk to him. I don't say anything. I don't move.

00:23:30.200 But he nudges, nudges, nudges, gets to the point where he's muzzle punching me, trying to get me

00:23:34.120 to pet him. The instant he stops, I pet him, you know? And so just like that, it's working that

00:23:39.400 reinforcement, uh, almost in reverse, but it's the exact same principle. It's that when you do what

00:23:44.320 I want, you get rewarded. When you don't, you get absolutely nothing. And, and one of the hardest

00:23:48.720 things for people to, to learn or to, or to follow through with is, is the letting the dog extinguish

00:23:53.880 it on his own. You know, I talk a lot about the power of self-discovery with, with animals and,

00:23:58.760 and, and it is, it's incredibly powerful. If you let them figure it out on their own and

00:24:03.220 then they get rewarded, it's the difference between handing a child a $5 bill and them

00:24:07.620 finding one blowing around in a parking lot.

00:24:10.000 Or even better learning how to earn that $5 for themselves, right?

00:24:13.140 Sure. You know, but, but it's, it's that almost like, wow, look at that. There's a $5 bill.

00:24:17.520 You know, it has that same impact on a dog when it's almost like it just happens. You know,

00:24:22.920 it's, it's almost magic to them when they do something and then they just get paid for it.

00:24:27.080 And they thought of it themselves. That most simple element to, to dog training is, is in

00:24:33.300 my opinion, the most powerful aspect to it is once that dog learns how to learn things

00:24:37.980 through his own self-discovery, then you truly own his mind and you can teach him anything.

00:24:42.420 And it's, it's very simple. Like I said, you, I just like to start with a couple of those

00:24:46.820 simple little behaviors of, you know, eye contact or checking in or, or sitting or healing

00:24:51.360 or whatever it is that you want marking and rewarding it. And very, very quickly as, as

00:24:56.260 you've noticed, they pick it up really, really fast, you know, and I see the unfortunate part

00:25:01.740 is, is, you know, you see confused dogs everywhere. You know, the owners are frustrated. The dogs

00:25:06.840 are confused and it's, it's the butting of heads over and over and over. And there's just

00:25:10.760 no reason for it. I mean, it's very, very simple and not at all complicated to, to get these

00:25:15.920 types of things out of your dogs. If you just patience and consistency, gentlemen, real quickly,

00:25:22.480 I wanted to introduce you to our exclusive mastermind, the iron council. I talk a lot

00:25:26.520 about finding a band of brothers. And while I do think it's important that you find other

00:25:30.480 men to surround yourself with locally, I think it can be just as powerful, if not even more

00:25:34.560 so in a lot of ways to connect with other men digitally. So when you join us inside of the

00:25:39.180 mastermind group, the iron council, you'll be joining 260 plus men from all over the world

00:25:44.140 who are doing, they're doing what is required to see big results in their life. They're

00:25:48.240 rekindling broken relationships. They're increasing the size of the bank accounts. They're starting

00:25:52.900 new businesses, losing weight, competing in obstacle course races. They're getting job

00:25:57.100 promotions among other things. Why? Because they have access to the tools and the resources

00:26:03.740 and the guidance and the direction they need to help them get to that objective they've

00:26:09.420 identified. So if you're interested in learning about what we are doing inside of the iron

00:26:13.440 council and you're interested in joining 260 men who are serious about their journey,

00:26:19.060 who are serious about becoming a better man, I invite you to do that at order a man.com

00:26:23.740 slash iron council. Now let's get back to my conversation with Mike.

00:26:29.620 I think you bring up a really good point when you talk about patience, because I think this

00:26:33.180 is something that a lot of guys, especially probably listening to this show, because I think

00:26:36.760 most of the guys listening to this are what I would consider achievers. And so from my perspective

00:26:41.640 and even my personality, somebody who is a quote unquote achiever has a difficult time

00:26:46.420 with patience. So I can see why the type of training and everything that you're talking

00:26:50.000 about is difficult for a lot of guys, but extremely valuable, not only for the dog, but also for

00:26:54.960 the owner as well.

00:26:56.200 Oh, absolutely. You know, and I'm an analogy guy for the same reason that I was just talking

00:27:00.480 about. It's about relating, you know, if I can throw analogies out that, that in this

00:27:04.400 case, you know, the, the overwhelming majority of the audience is guys. So I'll throw this

00:27:08.860 analogy out to really drive this point that you just mentioned home is, is the patient's

00:27:13.380 thing. And the term I like to use is, is finesse. And I see it a lot with, with guys,

00:27:18.480 especially, you know, women are typically more patient with kids, with dogs, with, with

00:27:21.680 whatever. But our kind of natural instinct is if it doesn't happen right away, we'll push

00:27:26.420 harder, you know, force it, break it, you know, whatever, or that didn't work. And I throw it

00:27:30.580 away and try to the next one or whatever. And then it's easy to get frustrated. But, you know,

00:27:34.240 I look at it the same way as, you know, a dog is no different than essentially trying

00:27:38.300 to pick up a woman in that you can't force it. You have to finesse your way through,

00:27:42.940 through that no different than, than anything else. Making wine, I mean, pick, pick anything

00:27:46.560 that just takes time, a good bourbon. You know, you can't take a harsh 90 proof whiskey and

00:27:52.780 turn it into bourbon in two weeks. It takes years to do that. And so it's that same kind

00:27:58.100 of thing. And again, you know, the bar scene is the same thing. You know, you can't just

00:28:01.440 make it happen. You know, you have to finesse your way into it. And that's, it's the exact

00:28:05.840 same way with a dog. You know, if you just get frustrated and try to quote unquote, push

00:28:09.940 harder, it doesn't work. It frustrates the dog. It complicates things. It breaks the relationship

00:28:15.100 with, that you have with them. And you know, one of the things I also like to say is, is

00:28:19.020 I relate trust to a blank white sheet of paper. Once that, that paper is crumbled, you can wad

00:28:25.240 it up into a ball. You're never going to get it back to its original form. And that, and that's

00:28:29.420 how trust is, you know, when you break trust with a spouse, with the kids, with, with your

00:28:33.360 dog, it's very, very difficult to earn that back. And, and, uh, you can get it to where,

00:28:37.940 you know, it's almost completely flat and there's just a couple of very slight wrinkles in it

00:28:42.060 and it's still a good workable relationship. But my point to that is, is that treat the trust

00:28:47.120 that you have between, and the relationship you have, uh, between you and your dog, like that

00:28:50.980 piece of paper, like a Fabergé egg and that, and that you're being extremely, extremely

00:28:55.760 cautious and careful with it because it's, uh, it's, it's the backbone to everything

00:28:59.780 else. I go, I've, I've been very fortunate to be able to, to see canine teams, you know,

00:29:05.240 working at a very high capacity all over the country. And frankly, all over the world

00:29:09.460 with military, with police, with security companies, and even just, you know, average

00:29:13.340 everyday pet owners. And, and I've been able to, to really see teams that are operating

00:29:17.900 on a really, really high level. They're doing just phenomenal, amazing work, uh, and seeing

00:29:23.120 the, the similarities between those dogs and handlers and their relationships. And then

00:29:27.020 on the transverse, you know, seeing that the teams where I, if I come in and do consulting

00:29:31.540 or advice or, or, you know, problem solving with some of these groups that are having

00:29:35.400 issues with their dogs. And I see a ton of similarities between the handlers and dogs

00:29:39.640 that are not, not working at a, at a high level. And every single time, no matter where

00:29:43.980 I go, no matter what the medium is in which they're working, it's always the exact same

00:29:48.360 thing is that the guys that are operating at a really high level have a phenomenal rate of

00:29:52.500 relationship with their dog. You know, the, the trust is there a hundred percent. They

00:29:56.320 trust their dog, their dog trusts them. And then they work as a team. You know, it's

00:30:00.020 not the, the, I've got to be the alpha and I'm going to dominate and I'm going to show

00:30:03.720 this blah, blah, blah. It's, it's really not that, you know, I think one of my pet peeves

00:30:08.420 is, is within the canine industry is that term being so overused and thrown around, you

00:30:13.800 know, the, the term alpha. And it's really, it's really not about that. And even if you

00:30:18.480 want to go down that road, I mean, if you truly observe the pack leaders or the alphas

00:30:23.820 or the, the guys running the show in, in any group of, of carnivorous animals that, that

00:30:28.680 live in a group, if you watch how they conduct themselves, you know, you see a lot of similarities,

00:30:33.020 but it's not about being dominant in this, in the sense that most humans interpret it

00:30:38.480 where it's, you know, I'm going to grab the dog and I'm going to throw him on his back

00:30:41.380 and I'm going to beat him around and smack him and show all this violence and then force.

00:30:45.580 They don't act that way. They're incredibly stoic. They're overwhelmingly stable in terms

00:30:51.840 of their, their emotional stability. I mean, and that's one of the benchmarks of, of being

00:30:56.860 a good leader. And again, this is business or military leadership or a coach or whatever

00:31:01.380 is that you have to have your emotions in check and not let any emotional consequences

00:31:07.120 or, or influence, you know, your decision-making and how you're carrying yourself, you know, and

00:31:12.220 another analogy I like to use, you know, because a lot of times people say, you know, my dog

00:31:16.340 doesn't respect me. I, no matter what I do, I mean, I give treats. I, I let him sleep in

00:31:20.460 the bed. I take him for walks. I get him massages, all this stuff. And he just, he just doesn't

00:31:24.640 listen to me. And again, to throw another bar analogy is that if a woman throws yourself

00:31:28.980 at you, do you like that? Right. Of course, of course, you know, most guys love that, but do

00:31:34.220 you respect that? No. You know, it's the same thing. Of course, a dog likes being treated

00:31:38.720 that way, but they're going to mirror what you show them. If you, if you present yourself

00:31:43.280 like a clown, they're going to treat you like one. And, you know, the best analogy I can

00:31:47.160 give is think of it like a boardroom scenario where you're tasked with giving a presentation

00:31:51.880 to the company's top 12 executives and how that presentation goes. Your job depends on

00:31:57.420 if it goes well, you get a huge promotion, become partner. If it goes bad, you're fired.

00:32:01.500 Now, imagine going into that boardroom and interacting with conducting that presentation,

00:32:07.180 the way that you interact with your dog, how would that go? And most people say, oh,

00:32:11.740 I'd get laughed out of the boardroom. Well, that's why your dog doesn't listen to you.

00:32:15.380 Interesting. Makes sense.

00:32:16.380 Yeah. You know, you can't, I can't explain to my dog that I'm his owner or that I'm the

00:32:20.440 leader or that I'm in charge or that he needs to do what I tell him. You know, I have to

00:32:24.400 show him that, you know, no different than, than any good boss you've ever had versus any

00:32:28.340 bad boss you've ever had is that you have to be the one that shows them that. And with people,

00:32:33.540 it's, it's nice because you can say, you know, you can explain those things, but we've all been

00:32:37.420 in positions where even though somebody has positional authority over us, we don't respect

00:32:42.100 them. We respect the position they're in, but we don't respect them as, as the person that's

00:32:46.540 actually in that position. And so it's the same thing with a dog is that you have to be that guy

00:32:51.380 for that dog. And then the only way to do that is, is again, through that nonverbal communication

00:32:55.980 and then just reinforcing what you're doing. Another good quote, I think it's maybe from

00:33:00.780 Clint Eastwood or maybe John Wayne. I'm not a, some, some, some guy like that.

00:33:04.000 Either way, a manly man. So we'll, we'll take it.

00:33:05.840 Yeah. Is that men are like steel and that when they lose their temper, they become useless.

00:33:11.320 You know, and I, and I think it's a, it's a brilliant, very, very simple, but, but brilliant

00:33:15.460 quote. And that, uh, you know, a lot of that rings true and that when you fly off the handle

00:33:19.920 and then you lose your control over, over your emotions, you lose a lot of credibility.

00:33:25.120 You lose value as a leader. Uh, you lose, you know, a lot of efficacy and in terms of leadership

00:33:30.060 and with a dog, I think it's magnified again, because as a human being, I can say, Hey,

00:33:34.700 sorry about that. I lost my temper. It won't happen again. This is what I really meant with

00:33:38.000 a dog. There's none of that. You know, everything is, is face value. It's black and white. It's

00:33:42.940 right now. So you've got to, you've got to work extra hard to try to put positive coins into

00:33:48.780 that piggy bank if, if you just threw a big negative one in there. So, so yeah, it's just,

00:33:53.240 uh, again, that's, these are all very simple concepts. They're not necessarily easy because

00:33:58.360 they take a lot of patience and a lot of dedication and just, you know, again, put the time in.

00:34:02.780 Yeah, no, I, and I like what you say. I mean, basically it reminds me of, of the quote. And

00:34:07.280 again, I don't know who said this, but if you have to tell people you are, you're probably

00:34:11.420 not. And I think, I think this is what you're saying. If you have to command that presence

00:34:16.660 or tell the dog or force the dog or whatever it may be that you're in charge and you're

00:34:20.960 the boss, you probably don't have as good a handle on it as you think you do.

00:34:25.040 Oh, absolutely. A hundred percent. It's a, yeah, it's one of my favorites as well. If

00:34:28.600 you have to tell somebody you're in charge, you're probably not.

00:34:30.980 Right.

00:34:31.520 Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:32.760 Well, Mike, we're winding down on time here a little bit. This actually went really,

00:34:36.120 really quick for me because this is a fascinating discussion and a topic that's important to me

00:34:39.900 and my family. So I really appreciate you talking about some of this stuff. And obviously

00:34:43.180 we're just skimming the surface on what we could talk about. I do want to ask you a couple

00:34:47.560 of questions as we wind down. And the first question that I like to ask all my guests is

00:34:52.360 what does it mean to be a man?

00:34:54.380 Well, I'll skip the wise ass answers, but I mean, to me, the essence of being a man is exuding

00:35:02.340 that type of leadership that I'm talking about. One of the things that is to me most heartbreaking

00:35:08.020 is in our society, how it's shunned and looked down on. And it seems like it's just an emasculation

00:35:14.280 of men in our society of trying to get rid of any type of violence or aggression or any type of

00:35:21.580 leadership qualities that we're talking about that, you know, I think historically get labeled

00:35:25.960 as being manly traits or acting like a man. And just like with everything, I think there's a happy

00:35:31.520 medium to it.

00:35:32.220 It doesn't mean, you know, just be a jerk and walk around yelling at people, but, you know,

00:35:36.580 it really, you know, trying to exemplify all of the leadership qualities that you enact with your

00:35:41.960 dog. I think carrying yourself that way in society, being a textbook example of a consummate man

00:35:48.780 in terms of, you know, showing the next generation of young men growing up of what it means to be a

00:35:55.680 man and how important it is to conduct yourself like a man and taking responsibility for your actions

00:36:01.400 and owning mistakes. You know, to me, my time in the military, I was blessed with a very, very

00:36:08.360 fortunate experience of being able to really grow up around, you know, some of the finest, strongest,

00:36:14.820 bravest, most heroic, battle-hardened, pipe-hitting warriors that this planet has ever seen. You know,

00:36:20.800 from the time I was 18 until I was 30, surrounded by hundreds of battle-tested frogmen that really set

00:36:27.580 the example and showed me what that means to be a man. And I will be forever grateful to the

00:36:33.420 community to be able to grow up around that because it really drove that point home, you know,

00:36:38.280 that there's nothing more frustrating than somebody that won't take responsibility when they make a

00:36:42.500 mistake. You know, and that's something that I have carried with me throughout there. But, you know,

00:36:47.340 to me, you know, just to simplify the question is that what exemplifies a man to me is being able to

00:36:54.320 inspire the next generation to be just like you in the most positive way possible. And I think that

00:37:00.040 that's what it means to me. Mike, how does somebody connect with you if they want to learn more about

00:37:04.180 what you're doing with training? Even the TeamDog online training, which is something, again, that my

00:37:09.480 son and I are participating in. How does somebody learn more about that program and the work that

00:37:13.620 you're doing? So, MikeRitland.com is how you sign up for the TeamDog online training course.

00:37:19.060 Tricos.com is my business website in terms of selling dogs training and things of that nature.

00:37:25.620 You know, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, it's all, you know, either MikeRitland or

00:37:28.920 at M.Ritland. And then, you know, we share a lot of videos and pictures and stuff with that.

00:37:33.960 The big thing for these lessons, again, is just the MikeRitland.com and sign up for the TeamDog

00:37:39.140 training. And before I forget, I do want to throw a quick shout out to Brecken and your new pup.

00:37:44.500 And if there's one piece of advice I can give him is that, you know, again, just put yourself in

00:37:48.860 the dog's shoes and really try to understand the world through his eyes and just be patient with

00:37:54.240 him and reinforce the things that you want and the sky's the limit with you.

00:37:58.340 Awesome. Mike, I appreciate you. I appreciate the work that you're doing. It's helped me and my

00:38:02.780 family and with our pup. And I also appreciate your service to the country. I know you spent 12 years

00:38:08.340 with the SEALs and wanted to let you know, I'm sure you don't hear it as often as you should,

00:38:12.960 that we appreciate your work and your service and your sacrifice. So thanks for being on the

00:38:17.080 show and sharing some of your wisdom with us. It's absolutely my pleasure in every regard.

00:38:22.380 And one last thing before I forget, the Warrior Dog Foundation is something that I started about

00:38:27.080 seven years ago now. And I would encourage people to check that out. It's for retiring and rehoming

00:38:32.760 former special operations dogs or police dogs, military dogs, contract working dogs, giving them

00:38:39.080 a home and being a resource for them. So I hope that any listeners check that out and throw us some

00:38:44.640 support. Yeah, you bet. What we'll do is we'll make all of that available in our show notes. So

00:38:49.520 the guys can check out the Warrior Dog Foundation, everything that you're doing and all the good

00:38:53.580 that you're doing in the world. So again, Mike, appreciate you, man. My pleasure. Thanks for having

00:38:57.080 me. There it is, man. A great conversation with Mr. Mike Ritland. Like I mentioned before,

00:39:03.380 and as he mentioned in the show, I would encourage you if you've not already done this to check out

00:39:07.100 his work. If you have a dog or even if you're considering getting one, his online training is

00:39:11.060 really, really good. My son and I are actually working through it right now with our four month

00:39:15.480 old German Shepherd. In the meantime, guys, if you are ready to take it up a notch in every area of

00:39:19.560 your life, this is a great start, but there is nothing that can replace the work that we're doing

00:39:23.840 inside the Iron Council. The tools, the resources, the guidance, the direction, the accountability,

00:39:28.340 the kick, anything else you might need to get your butt in gear. If you are interested in

00:39:32.440 learning more about what we're up to and all that is included in your membership,

00:39:35.700 head to orderman.com slash iron council. I hope to see you inside. I will look forward to talk

00:39:40.700 with you on Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then take action and become the man

00:39:44.740 you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

00:39:50.120 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

00:39:54.780 at orderofman.com.

106： A Man's Best Friend ｜ Navy SEAL Mike Ritland

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