Order of Man - 107： The Art and Science of Giving Gifts ｜ John Ruhlin

00:00:00.000 Every single one of us has received a gift in our lives that have made us feel like the most important person on this planet.

00:00:05.440 And knowing that, it's easy to see how giving gifts to others will make them feel.

00:00:09.780 But how often do we tap into the power of gratitude and appreciation and gift-giving?

00:00:14.680 My guest today, author of Giftology, John Rulon, joins me to talk about how powerful gift-giving can be,

00:00:20.100 how to build credibility and influence through the power of appreciation,

00:00:23.560 some important factors to consider when gift-giving,

00:00:25.680 how to avoid it coming across as manipulation, and the art and science of giving gifts.

00:00:31.160 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:34.140 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:37.080 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:41.500 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:46.600 This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:49.120 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:00:51.700 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:56.080 Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:00:57.300 My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of this podcast, The Order of Man.

00:01:01.980 I am glad that you're tuning in with us today.

00:01:04.180 Guys, this is a show about all things manly.

00:01:06.500 So if you are a man and you are looking to improve your life, this is the show for you.

00:01:11.840 I've just got to say today that I am honored to get your messages and your notes, your emails,

00:01:17.400 telling me how the strategies my guests and I share are changing your life.

00:01:22.360 And that's exactly why we started this project, which has now become a movement.

00:01:26.820 And that just wouldn't be the case without you listening in each week.

00:01:30.640 So I first and foremost want to thank you for that.

00:01:33.500 If you want some additional resources on the show that we're about to delve into today,

00:01:37.580 go to orderofman.com slash 107.

00:01:41.040 And if you want to delve more into the topic of appreciation and gift giving a little bit

00:01:45.620 more than what we get to on this show, join 25,000 other men who are having some incredible

00:01:52.080 conversations about masculinity.

00:01:53.880 And you can do that at facebook.com slash groups slash order of man.

00:01:57.820 And something that I talk with you guys about every single week is our mastermind.

00:02:01.420 This is only for men who are ready to take their lives to the next level.

00:02:04.780 I cannot guarantee that if you join us, you're actually going to even see results.

00:02:09.740 That's entirely upon you.

00:02:11.640 But what I can tell you is that if you're willing to do the work and implement the guidance

00:02:17.100 and the direction that we offer, you're going to see some big improvements in your life.

00:02:21.440 So if you are interested in finding more about that and what's included, you can check that

00:02:25.340 out at orderofman.com slash iron council.

00:02:28.240 Now I want to introduce you to my guest and somebody who has become a friend of mine over

00:02:33.060 the past several months.

00:02:33.840 His name is John Rulon.

00:02:35.220 In fact, last week I had the opportunity to spend some time with John and I can tell you that

00:02:39.480 this is a man who understands how powerful appreciation and gratitude can be.

00:02:45.460 A cool experience we recently had is that when I was out of town last week with John,

00:02:49.220 one of John's friends who happened to be hosting this event that I was at,

00:02:52.660 sent my wife a set of glasses with our initials etched on them and a singing bowl.

00:02:58.400 You'll have to Google that if you don't know what that is, but that's something my whole

00:03:01.080 family can enjoy.

00:03:01.880 But my wife ended up sending me a message and said, if I'm going to get cool gifts while 1.00

00:03:06.260 you're gone, I'm going to send you away more often.

00:03:08.280 So you can see that the strategies that he's going to share today actually work.

00:03:12.580 John is the author of Giftology.

00:03:14.500 He's got some incredible, incredible clients, including the Cubs, the Jaguars, Wells Fargo,

00:03:20.380 Caesars Palace, so many more.

00:03:22.100 But more importantly, as I said before, John has become a good friend and he's here to talk

00:03:25.860 with us about strategies of giving gifts.

00:03:30.820 John, what's going on, man?

00:03:31.840 Thanks for joining me on the show today.

00:03:33.260 Ryan, man.

00:03:33.740 Thanks for having me.

00:03:34.360 This is going to be a lot of fun.

00:03:35.340 It is.

00:03:35.780 It's been a couple of months.

00:03:37.260 Time kind of blends together when you're as busy as I know both of us are.

00:03:41.160 So it's been a while, but I'm anxious to have you on the show.

00:03:44.000 Yeah, dude.

00:03:44.540 Well, let's go deep fast.

00:03:45.920 Right on.

00:03:46.240 Let's do it.

00:03:46.720 So obviously, we're talking about gift giving today.

00:03:49.060 I really want to ask just to lead this off, and I think this will give us some framework

00:03:52.700 for the rest of the discussion, is why you feel gift giving is so critical, so important.

00:03:57.460 Yeah.

00:03:57.780 I think a lot of times as guys, we hear the word gifts or gratitude or whatever else.

00:04:02.460 We automatically hit the snooze button or check out.

00:04:05.240 It's a warm, fuzzy.

00:04:06.540 Sure.

00:04:06.980 Why do people even care?

00:04:08.740 And I think that every man would say that relationships are important.

00:04:12.660 It could be a mentor relationship, investors, employees, clients, their spouse.

00:04:16.980 So if relationships matter, how you show in a tangible form, how you show appreciation

00:04:23.420 and gratitude to that relationship really kind of determines, in many ways, the tangible

00:04:28.500 value.

00:04:29.160 If you look back thousands of years ago, let's say biblical times, kings would give other

00:04:33.560 kings thousands of cattle or their prized horse or whatever it was because that was the

00:04:39.920 representation of the value that they placed on the relationship.

00:04:42.620 And so I think that when we hear the word gifting, especially in 2017 in Western culture, 0.66

00:04:47.800 we automatically think of swag and corporate gifts and crap that nobody wants or that doesn't 0.83

00:04:54.400 really – it has a brand on it.

00:04:56.320 But really, gifting is – I call them artifacts.

00:04:59.120 I hate the word gift even anymore because it's a representation of the value of the

00:05:03.240 relationship and oftentimes can be really, really significant representations of that.

00:05:08.600 Yeah, well, I know you're obviously a man who practices what he preaches because after

00:05:14.080 our first conversation, I get a surprise gift in the mail, which was a K-Bar knife.

00:05:19.980 And I will say it did have a logo, but it was not your logo.

00:05:23.440 It was my logo.

00:05:25.140 And I was impressed with that.

00:05:26.020 And then, of course, you got the Cutco knife, which my wife has used every day up until this 0.99

00:05:30.560 point.

00:05:30.900 So I definitely see what you say, which kind of leads me to my thought beforehand and maybe

00:05:36.860 to play devil's advocate here a little bit because I think a lot of the times people

00:05:41.140 view this as either unnecessary or superficial.

00:05:45.280 What are your thoughts about that?

00:05:47.000 Well, I think that first off, the way that I give a gift is open-handed and I think that

00:05:51.900 when you give a gift based upon the value of the relationship – and I value your time.

00:05:56.160 Like when we sit down with somebody, whether it's for coffee or dinner, oftentimes time is

00:06:01.000 that one commodity that we can't get back.

00:06:02.800 You can't produce more of it.

00:06:04.320 And so 30 minutes an hour for a lot of people is worth $100 an hour, $1,000 an hour.

00:06:10.660 And so I think when you can acknowledge people for their most valuable asset that they gave

00:06:15.280 you, they didn't give it to their family.

00:06:17.500 They didn't give it to their business.

00:06:18.640 They gave it to you.

00:06:19.900 Regardless of whether you do business together, partner together, even talk ever again, I think

00:06:24.620 that when you can step out and say, you know what, I can acknowledge the other person's

00:06:28.700 time, it's not superficial.

00:06:30.440 It actually shows a huge level of respect and honor for that other person and their

00:06:36.460 most valuable asset.

00:06:37.480 So I love the question.

00:06:39.120 But when people hear that, they're like, wow, you're right. 0.99

00:06:41.480 Like, crap. 0.94

00:06:42.300 Like, my time is really valuable. 0.99

00:06:43.780 And when somebody wants to pick my brain, like, I hate that feeling of somebody wanting

00:06:47.440 my time for free.

00:06:48.860 And I try to turn that on its head and say, you know what, and somebody gives me that,

00:06:51.760 I'm going to go all in.

00:06:52.940 And oftentimes the gifts that we send are $100 to $500 gifts because that's the value I place

00:06:58.660 on that person's time.

00:06:59.500 Yeah, well, and obviously that's how I felt after the gift that I had received by surprise

00:07:04.920 from you, which kind of leads me to the point as well.

00:07:08.420 You know, you sent that gift after we had conversed, after we had had a conversation.

00:07:12.900 But in reading your book, Giftology, you even talk about sending gifts maybe before the value

00:07:17.980 has even been exchanged or you even know.

00:07:20.520 I wonder if this ever comes across as manipulation or if it is genuinely appreciated by everybody

00:07:26.020 you send a gift to.

00:07:26.820 Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's people out there that are very cynical and are like,

00:07:31.760 you know, what's the angle?

00:07:33.100 What's the manipulation?

00:07:34.040 But what's funny is people will, like, I just spoke at an event to a group of CEOs and somebody

00:07:38.620 came up and said, hey, I'm the person that you sent XYZ to.

00:07:42.180 And I'm like, I don't even remember sending that to you.

00:07:45.120 Like, I'm like, what did I send?

00:07:46.880 And because, I mean, I send out, you know, a quarter million dollars a year worth of gifts

00:07:50.560 because that's just who we are.

00:07:52.700 And I'm a big believer in eating your own dog food and modeling the best practice.

00:07:56.480 You can't be a, you know, say, teach people to be generous and then not be generous.

00:08:00.200 That doesn't work out real well, especially at home.

00:08:03.840 You don't want to be a great gift giver in business and not be a great gift giver at home.

00:08:07.080 And so I think that, you know, the manipulation side, I mean, there is an element of like,

00:08:10.500 we all, if you have a business or you work for any sort of business, like,

00:08:15.000 you know, profit's not a bad word and we all want good things to happen.

00:08:17.800 I think the big thing for us is I play it with the 50-year mindset, play it for the long game.

00:08:22.260 Gary Vaynerchuk will talk about, you know, he's an attention broker.

00:08:25.880 And I feel like when you're generous, I'll sometimes send a gift on the front end

00:08:29.360 pre-thanking somebody for their time.

00:08:32.240 And there is an element of like, hey, I want to make sure that they don't cancel.

00:08:35.500 So there is a selfish motive, but there's other, there's the other motive of they're

00:08:39.540 going to give me their time.

00:08:40.940 I want to thank them on the front end so that there's a understanding going into it.

00:08:44.700 I don't take their time lightly or for granted.

00:08:47.400 And so I kind of view myself as an attention broker as well.

00:08:50.140 Like I'm pre-buying their attention and acknowledging how valuable that is.

00:08:54.160 I don't think that's manipulation.

00:08:55.340 I think it's almost more transparent to say, hey, dude, I, you know, I'm hopeful that good

00:09:00.260 things will happen.

00:09:01.120 But when somebody gets a gift from me, you'll notice like I'm not asking for anything in the

00:09:05.040 note, it's not like, hey, I would love a referral, you know, as a result of this gift, or I'm

00:09:10.240 not alluding towards anything other than I'm just trying to acknowledge the other human

00:09:13.860 being on the other end of that gift.

00:09:16.340 And in doing so, I think people feel the intention when you give gifts the right way.

00:09:20.260 So that leads me to the balance between being strategic with this and then gifting just because

00:09:26.640 you're a generous human being.

00:09:28.200 And I'm sure there is a balance.

00:09:29.280 How do we find that?

00:09:30.000 Yeah, well, I think that there are times when I just send cool stuff to people and I really

00:09:35.240 have no agenda.

00:09:36.120 I just, I was being interviewed by somebody and they had a huge audience and millions of

00:09:40.980 downloads and whatever else.

00:09:41.900 But I just hit it off with a guy and he was a lot of fun.

00:09:44.700 And he mentioned, you know, a sauna because that's part of my morning routine is I use a

00:09:49.600 sauna in my house.

00:09:50.360 He's like, you have a sauna in your house?

00:09:51.440 I'm like, yeah, they're not that expensive.

00:09:52.540 Like, it's like my Zen.

00:09:54.120 It's like my happy place.

00:09:54.980 And his podcast had to do with fire and whatever else.

00:09:59.320 He's like, sauna.

00:10:00.020 And I'm like, you know what?

00:10:01.000 Let's send this dude a sauna.

00:10:02.440 Like, let's have some fun.

00:10:03.980 There really was no, like, he had already had me on the show.

00:10:06.540 Like, it wasn't like I was trying to manipulate the situation.

00:10:10.100 It was just fun.

00:10:11.380 And I think that when you start to become a, you know, when you kind of exercise what

00:10:15.320 I call the gratitude muscle on a regular basis, you just start to see life differently

00:10:19.920 and see people differently.

00:10:21.020 And there's times when you're just like, that's a perfect gift for that person.

00:10:23.540 Or that's a, here's an opportunity to do something crazy for this person.

00:10:26.820 And, um, like we just hosted Gary Vaynerchuk.

00:10:29.040 He was already coming in.

00:10:30.080 We were having him at a van.

00:10:31.700 I was going to spend the morning with him.

00:10:32.920 I'm like, what would be the coolest way to bring Gary into St. Louis?

00:10:36.900 Like, you know, he doesn't come to St. Louis every day and he's from New York and he gets

00:10:40.000 cool things.

00:10:40.440 I'm like, I want to helicopter him in from the airport into the location.

00:10:43.740 You know, is that necessary?

00:10:45.100 No.

00:10:45.680 Now the sucky part is the only airport or the only helicopter company in St.

00:10:49.760 Louis that I could do that with was fully booked.

00:10:51.400 So it didn't happen.

00:10:52.160 But I promised him that the next time he comes to St.

00:10:54.760 Louis, I'll have enough advance notice.

00:10:56.240 We're going to helicopter him into whatever the venue is.

00:10:58.620 Why?

00:10:58.920 Just because, because it's fun and it makes for a good story.

00:11:02.760 But I do think that, you know, there is an element of a good chunk of our budget is strategic.

00:11:06.940 It's based upon either the current or lifetime potential value of the relationship.

00:11:12.200 And so when I look at a referral partner or a partnership opportunity or a client or an

00:11:17.000 employee, a lot of it's based on metrics.

00:11:19.200 Like the lifetime value of this employee could be worth millions of dollars to my company

00:11:24.480 over the next 20 years.

00:11:25.700 So I'm willing to invest X percentage of that value on the front end with the hopes that

00:11:31.580 it's going to germinate and grow into that.

00:11:33.500 And oftentimes if you do it the right way, sometimes, you know, you think the value is,

00:11:37.660 let's say a client's going to produce $100,000 in profit over the next 10 years.

00:11:41.280 If you do it well, that might turn into 200,000 and maybe they refer you five people over the

00:11:47.180 next 10 years.

00:11:47.960 And then you, now you start getting into like, you know, half a million dollars in profit

00:11:51.480 or just crazy things.

00:11:52.540 So we do try to put numbers to it.

00:11:54.160 So it's not just like warm, fuzzy, fluffy, you know, unicorns and rainbows.

00:11:58.420 And like there is strategy to it, but I do think that there's an element of like just

00:12:02.680 being human.

00:12:03.260 And when you have the opportunity, like one of my mentors that taught me a lot of what I

00:12:07.040 do, like he would just, I could see him kind of asking the question, like, what's the most

00:12:11.200 I can do in this situation?

00:12:12.840 Like what, basically what's the most I can afford to do?

00:12:15.180 Most people ask themselves the opposite, which is what's the least I can get away with and 0.99

00:12:19.280 not look like a schmuck. 0.99

00:12:20.240 Like whether you're buying a graduation gift for your niece or nephew or going to a wedding, 0.99

00:12:24.480 like you start asking the least.

00:12:25.720 And I think it's really powerful in all areas of your relationships and your business to say,

00:12:30.560 what's the most I could do here? 0.98

00:12:32.200 And you start to dream and you're like, holy crap.

00:12:34.160 But there's, you know, even if you're knocking it out of the ballpark, like a lot of us could 0.89

00:12:38.000 do a lot more.

00:12:39.020 We just hold back five or 10% because of that scarcity mindset.

00:12:42.860 Yeah.

00:12:43.220 Yeah.

00:12:43.600 Well, so I hear two sides of this.

00:12:45.100 Like I hear the coolness factor.

00:12:46.520 Obviously you're talking about flying Gary Vaynerchuk in a helicopter, which I think you're

00:12:51.080 right.

00:12:51.280 That's fun.

00:12:51.740 That sounds awesome.

00:12:52.480 That sounds great.

00:12:53.180 But then the other side of me says, oh my goodness, like this is so much effort, right?

00:12:58.920 And you're having to figure this out and what would be cool for the sauna.

00:13:02.860 And like, it's like a lot of effort.

00:13:04.720 So how do you balance between trying to make this a memorable, unique experience versus

00:13:09.820 overwhelming yourself with trying to figure out what this person would like and then coordinating

00:13:14.820 it all?

00:13:15.340 Tell me about that.

00:13:16.560 Yeah.

00:13:16.920 So, I mean, selfishly, we built our business on like companies, leaders, you know, speakers,

00:13:23.200 they outsource their gifting to us entirely.

00:13:25.520 So, you know, like Gary's not a client yet, but guys like him will say, John, here's my

00:13:31.260 list of 500 people.

00:13:32.440 Like I need to do something cool for them, their wives, their assistants, their kids,

00:13:36.100 you know, here's the event coming up.

00:13:37.340 Just help us.

00:13:38.020 So there's an element of like, well, we can do that.

00:13:40.680 We do it in our sleep.

00:13:41.580 Right.

00:13:41.740 And so we have that ability to do it for ourselves and other companies.

00:13:45.520 But I would say in general, what I think is, is that people get overwhelmed because they

00:13:49.540 have 5,000 connections on LinkedIn and they have this many connections on Facebook.

00:13:54.220 And they start to think about like, what can I do for 5,000 people?

00:13:58.160 And Gary will be the first one to tell you like business happens one on one.

00:14:01.920 Like his big deals that he closes, like it's oftentimes your year or maybe even decade,

00:14:08.380 the success of that is based upon a handful of people.

00:14:12.080 It might be 20 people, might be 50 people.

00:14:14.260 It's not thousands of people in most cases.

00:14:16.520 It sounds cool to say, you know, I have a million followers on Twitter, you know, like

00:14:20.760 he does.

00:14:21.320 But I guarantee there's probably 30 people that have like made his entire last decade that

00:14:26.460 really like really matter.

00:14:28.300 And when you start to say like, how can I take a smaller group of people and go all

00:14:33.460 in with those 10, 20, 50 people, 100 people, like your dream 100.

00:14:38.440 Now, all of a sudden, it's not as overwhelming.

00:14:41.060 And what's amazing is, is when you spend 80% of your budget and time on those 20% of your

00:14:47.120 relationships, now all of a sudden, like you have some roots to those relationships where

00:14:52.200 major things can happen.

00:14:53.920 Like that's where like deepness and specialness and, you know, seven figure deals are closed.

00:14:59.080 It's not on the surface level.

00:15:00.420 It's like where things go deep.

00:15:01.620 And, and frankly, you know, with all the noise of 2017 with Facebook and Snapchat and

00:15:06.860 whatever else, like you want to get somebody's attention, you better go and don't go like

00:15:11.120 one or 2% better than the next guy. 0.92

00:15:13.040 You better go fricking like 10,000%.

00:15:15.480 Because when you do that, then you stand out, then you're memorable.

00:15:18.780 Then people are like, wow, this person really cares versus my steak dinner is better than

00:15:23.080 you're a steak dinner.

00:15:23.800 Like nobody cares.

00:15:24.920 Right.

00:15:25.160 Yeah.

00:15:25.700 And so I think it can be overwhelming if you don't hone in and focus it on a few versus

00:15:32.020 on the masses.

00:15:33.320 How do you personally identify or even track your quote unquote dream 100?

00:15:39.380 I'm really curious about your, your process for that.

00:15:41.960 Yeah.

00:15:42.200 I mean, we have a CRM just like anybody else, but a lot of it is, you know, it's old school

00:15:46.580 with a notebook written down.

00:15:47.820 Like here's the, you know, like a John Roman, like he'll tell you, like he's focused on adding

00:15:53.220 the most value to his eight closest relationships this year, you know, and eight people, you

00:15:58.720 don't need a spreadsheet or anything else for that.

00:16:01.020 Like you can track that.

00:16:01.960 I think that, you know, for me too, like I have, you know, hundreds and even thousands

00:16:06.660 of clients, but there's, you know, there's 20 of them that really, you know, I don't

00:16:10.060 say that matter, but that from a move the needle perspective, it's a lot of what we teach

00:16:15.460 is old school.

00:16:16.260 It's like, take, cause everybody's so focused on all this technology stuff and all of that's

00:16:20.980 great.

00:16:21.640 But I've just found that like, you know, it's like, it's like, yeah, you could send out,

00:16:25.880 you know, a newsletter to a million people or you could write 20 handwritten notes that

00:16:30.260 day.

00:16:30.560 And I found that the old school take the time, be thoughtful because it's so uncommon now.

00:16:37.100 It's not rocket science, but it's just a matter of staying focused and writing down

00:16:40.720 in a journal or maybe have an Excel spreadsheet or maybe you have a really fancy, you know,

00:16:44.540 like we use contactually for certain things and hatch buck and we have these cool CRMs

00:16:49.780 and whatever else.

00:16:50.680 But at the end of the day, a lot of it is what we do is old school.

00:16:53.200 Like, you know, I spent the entire day yesterday, mainly with Gary and his crew.

00:16:56.660 You know, I didn't worry about the other 20,000 people that I know.

00:17:00.260 I was present.

00:17:01.220 I was focused on him taking care of his crew, making sure they were comfortable, making sure

00:17:05.480 that they saw St. Louis in an amazing light.

00:17:07.800 I don't really care about anybody else.

00:17:08.960 Like I was focused on one person and his two most important guys right there.

00:17:12.660 That was it.

00:17:13.120 And I think there's real, I think people are craving that more now than ever in 2017.

00:17:18.360 Yeah.

00:17:18.760 I want to get to this, what you talked about with that uncommonality.

00:17:21.940 But before I get to that, just to follow up on this, on this conversation, I've actually

00:17:27.120 got a board right here above my computer and I've got a list of probably 15 people that

00:17:31.240 I want to stay in touch with.

00:17:32.480 And I'm looking through this list as we're having this conversation, like, all right, I

00:17:35.220 need to send gifts to all of these guys based on this conversation.

00:17:37.700 How do I find out what's going to be valuable and what's going to be special to these guys

00:17:43.200 and be very unique so that it is memorable?

00:17:45.860 Yeah, I think that, I mean, one of the cool things about technology is people put a lot

00:17:51.660 of stuff out there social media wise, and it's pretty easy to find things out.

00:17:56.140 I would say the other thing is, is if you build a relationship with their inner circle, you

00:17:59.740 know, if they have an assistant or a spouse, it's amazing, obviously, what you can find

00:18:04.120 out by just reaching out to their inner circle.

00:18:05.880 And thirdly, I'd say that, you know, when you're dealing with, let's say, influencers,

00:18:10.720 thought leaders, CEOs, you know, leaders in general, they're oftentimes catered to a

00:18:15.260 lot.

00:18:15.660 Like when I travel and golf, I golf at Pebble Beach.

00:18:17.940 Like I get to, you know, fly, you know, first class or sometimes private or, you know, stay

00:18:23.520 at nice hotels, get nice dinners.

00:18:24.700 I get all kinds of stuff thrown at me.

00:18:26.440 If you want to get my attention, though, you take care of my wife, my kids and my assistants.

00:18:32.060 That's like an honor me and make me look like a rock star to them.

00:18:34.940 A hundred dollars spent on them is like spending $10,000 on me because I get, I get all the

00:18:40.220 stuff I want.

00:18:40.980 And I'm not saying nobody can find a gift to send me like that.

00:18:43.580 I'm not trying to come off as like arrogant, but it's hard to get my attention for long

00:18:47.980 because I'm onto the next thing.

00:18:49.320 And I think a lot of you, probably those 15 guys, you know, maybe they're girls, but

00:18:54.240 15 guys, they're probably the same way.

00:18:56.320 But if they're married, you know, my wife gets the worst side of being in business. 1.00

00:18:59.760 Like I travel, I speak, like she's dealing with three sick kids under, you know, we have

00:19:03.980 three daughters under six that had, you know, strep and flu.

00:19:07.020 She gets the worst side of being in business many times.

00:19:09.340 And so does my assistant and so do my kids.

00:19:11.520 So take care of them and you'll take care of me and you get my attention and make me

00:19:15.640 feel good too.

00:19:16.440 So I would look for, you know, that's why the knives work.

00:19:19.020 Like I can send, you know, a knife set that's, that's beautifully engraved for the family

00:19:23.340 and the spouse and the wife and I can send that same gift, push a button and send it

00:19:28.100 to a thousand different homes.

00:19:30.220 And most of those homes, everybody feel like it's something that's pretty universal.

00:19:33.820 Like everybody eats, entertains as a foodie, host people.

00:19:36.800 So the knives work for almost every, like I have 25 pro sports teams as clients.

00:19:41.780 I've used the knives for almost all of them because there's certain things that make us

00:19:45.560 human that are pretty universal.

00:19:47.360 And I focus on those common hot buttons that most people are like, oh, all of our clients

00:19:52.180 like golf.

00:19:52.820 Well, they already have all the golf stuff they could possibly use in 10 lifetimes because

00:19:56.460 everybody knows they like the golf, like go below the surface and come at it from a different

00:20:00.800 angle with the family involved or some of these other ways.

00:20:03.900 And, and that's that we look for those unique angles that we can take and also bring a little

00:20:08.600 bit of scale.

00:20:09.400 So, you know, if we are sending something to a hundred people, it's difficult to send a

00:20:13.440 hundred different gifts.

00:20:15.440 It's doable, but you really better really be dedicated to, to really going, you know, really,

00:20:21.280 really deep to make that happen.

00:20:22.660 And sometimes that's not always possible.

00:20:24.420 Right.

00:20:24.580 Yeah.

00:20:24.700 It makes sense.

00:20:25.060 And this is going back to your efficiency with the amount of effort required to plan

00:20:29.100 that kind of gifting.

00:20:30.540 Well, and this is what you did in my situation is, is my wife, before I jumped on this call 0.98

00:20:35.340 was very clear and very articulate about making sure that I thanked you for the gift that

00:20:40.180 you sent because that knife she uses every single day. 1.00

00:20:43.040 So I can see what you're saying when you talk about the inner circle.

00:20:46.040 Yeah.

00:20:46.580 And I'm top of mind, whether you want me to be or not subconsciously.

00:20:50.240 I mean, the psychology is like every time you use that artifact or she does, she's remind,

00:20:54.340 like, there's a pleasant trigger in her mind subconsciously of like where it came from,

00:20:58.880 who it was.

00:20:59.600 And even though I don't know her, if I, you know, invited you to something and you're

00:21:03.360 like, Hey, remember the guy that sent it?

00:21:05.560 Oh yeah.

00:21:06.220 Yeah.

00:21:06.420 Like he wants me to go, you know, hang out.

00:21:08.560 And, you know, and I've had this literally happen.

00:21:10.260 Like their spouses, wives that are like, you can go on any trip you want to, if it's with

00:21:14.520 John Rulon.

00:21:15.060 And they don't even know me, but they feel honored and respected because I took the time

00:21:19.120 to acknowledge them as a part of the, you know, the overall team and knowing that, you

00:21:23.900 know, the spouse and the significant other behind the scenes is oftentimes just as important,

00:21:27.820 if not more than the other person.

00:21:29.700 And so that top of mind awareness, it's amazing how powerful that can really be.

00:21:35.420 So is this the primary principle then that you've used to build as much influence you

00:21:39.840 have?

00:21:40.100 Because I know the people you hang out with.

00:21:41.580 I know the circles you run in.

00:21:42.880 Is this the primary strategy for building the type of relationships with the caliber of

00:21:46.540 people that you have?

00:21:47.880 Yeah.

00:21:48.300 I mean, they're obviously you can't have a sucky business and give great gifts. 0.72

00:21:52.120 That's a given, right?

00:21:53.160 Yeah.

00:21:53.400 Yeah.

00:21:53.560 You have to be best in class, whatever you are, whether you're selling post-it notes or

00:21:57.380 widgets, it doesn't matter.

00:21:58.800 Like you have to be best in class or world-class and have things dialed in that way.

00:22:02.680 But yeah, I mean, my secret sauce is if you gift like a king, you get treated like a king.

00:22:07.860 Like it's a biblical principle.

00:22:09.220 And so we've been doing that for 17 years and trying to do it as well as we can in the

00:22:14.320 right way with the right intentions, planting good seeds.

00:22:17.180 And over time, you know, it's another principle, like you reap what you sow, you know, we're reaping

00:22:22.320 the rewards of sending out and showing a lot of generosity and taking care of people and

00:22:27.220 not asking for things to return.

00:22:28.500 And over time, like if you're trying to play like the short game and make things happen

00:22:32.900 in the next 30 days, that's where you start to get contrived and manipulated and all that

00:22:36.980 kind of stuff.

00:22:37.480 But if you're like, hey, I'm in this for the long haul and relationships are going to be

00:22:40.780 one of my most important assets and I'm going to play this long game.

00:22:43.980 It's yeah.

00:22:45.320 I mean, that's our secret sauce.

00:22:46.880 You know, without knowing you and a little bit about your story and also reading the book,

00:22:51.960 I think it'd be very easy for me to say, oh, this is easy for you to say because

00:22:56.280 you've got this big company, you've got these influential people you're hanging out with,

00:23:00.640 but you had to start somewhere.

00:23:01.900 And so I'm curious if a guy's listening to this and says, hey, you know, I make 50, 80

00:23:06.580 grand a year.

00:23:07.700 I realize relationships are important.

00:23:09.300 I want to level up my business or start a new business.

00:23:11.780 Where does a guy like that even start?

00:23:13.740 Yeah, I'm getting ready to turn 37.

00:23:15.980 I'm 36 right now.

00:23:17.080 I started the business, you know, just over 16 years ago in college.

00:23:20.740 I was 20 years old.

00:23:22.120 Most people assume, you know, when they hear, oh, you're speaking at Google like, oh, did you

00:23:26.200 grow up in Silicon Valley?

00:23:27.420 Like, no, I grew up in Nowersville, Ohio, about a 45 minute south of Canton.

00:23:33.440 So on a 50 acre farm.

00:23:35.180 And I grew up milking goats every morning before I went to school.

00:23:38.200 Right.

00:23:38.400 Like we had a one acre garden.

00:23:39.620 We heated our house with wood.

00:23:40.940 I baled hay every summer.

00:23:42.160 We didn't take vacations.

00:23:43.560 I grew up working like very like lower middle income, you know, not poor, like we didn't have

00:23:49.060 shoes.

00:23:49.760 Sure.

00:23:50.020 But like garage sale specials, like nothing ever was new.

00:23:53.440 When you're one of six kids, like I grew up just kind of like grinding it out and learning

00:23:57.580 work ethic.

00:23:58.520 And when I went into college, I thought I was going to go be a doctor because I knew I didn't

00:24:02.120 want to do blue collar stuff the rest of my life necessarily and got good grades, was an

00:24:06.160 overachiever.

00:24:06.740 And, and I started out when I interned with Cutco, the knife company, I wore glasses to

00:24:11.760 look smarter.

00:24:12.280 And I wore the one tie that I had into the interview.

00:24:15.520 Like that's how green and how unsophisticated I was.

00:24:18.680 Got hired.

00:24:19.540 Really, a lot of what I learned, I learned from a mentor.

00:24:21.420 He was an attorney.

00:24:22.620 He was super generous.

00:24:24.260 He had more referrals than he could possibly handle because he was always giving things

00:24:27.520 away and everybody loved the guy.

00:24:29.500 And so a lot of what I learned, I learned from him because he was just, he'd find like

00:24:33.780 deals on noodles and buy like a semi-load of noodles and everybody at church next Sunday

00:24:37.560 would end up with like, you know, 20 cases of noodles.

00:24:40.220 And so I pitched him an idea of Cutco.

00:24:42.240 I thought he'd give away pocket knives because all of his clients are men.

00:24:44.580 They're like CEOs of home builders and insurance companies and lumberyards.

00:24:47.900 And he was the one that gave me the idea about the spouse because he's like, can I get

00:24:51.120 by paring knives and engrave those?

00:24:53.520 And I'm like, you're going to give grown men paring knives?

00:24:55.680 Like, that's the weirdest thing on the planet.

00:24:58.140 And, uh, and he's like, uh, you're wondering why, right?

00:25:00.840 And I'm like, I'll sell you as many as I want, Paul.

00:25:03.160 I'm desperate, but why?

00:25:04.700 And, uh, he said, I found that if you take care of the inner circle, the family, everything

00:25:08.040 else in business kind of takes care of itself.

00:25:10.380 At that point in time, I started to invest about $200 a month of my own money, which as

00:25:16.540 a college kid, $200 might as well have been $2 million.

00:25:19.180 Like, um, yeah.

00:25:21.040 And that was on one gift.

00:25:22.200 I would buy like a carving set or whatever it would be.

00:25:25.220 And I would engrave the CEO of a company.

00:25:27.280 I'd want to get their attention that I'd find out the wife's name, engrave that family name. 1.00

00:25:30.900 And I put a little card inside said, carve out five minutes for me.

00:25:33.920 I promise it'll be worth your time.

00:25:35.860 And oftentimes I'd get the meeting and I'd walk in to a boardroom at like 21, 22 years

00:25:40.720 old.

00:25:41.700 The, uh, a 60 year old guy walks into the boardroom and he's like, I'm really, I thought

00:25:45.780 you'd be like 50 years old season sales executive.

00:25:48.380 He's like, I wasn't expecting a 22 year old.

00:25:50.440 He's like, are you here to sell me knives?

00:25:52.040 And I'm like, no, I'm here to help you and your thousand sales reps do exactly what I

00:25:55.740 did to you.

00:25:56.120 I'm here to show you how gratitude could be a competitive advantage for you.

00:25:59.840 And so we'd walk out of there with deals, oftentimes, you know, a thousand sets that Cutco actually

00:26:04.660 thought they were fraud orders because they'd never seen an order that big.

00:26:08.300 And by the time I was a senior in college, I was their largest distributor out of a million

00:26:11.400 and a half in the 70 year history of the company because I was using it as a strategic

00:26:16.060 tool.

00:26:16.520 So, but I say all that to say that I started out with, you know, buying a gift once a month

00:26:20.640 for 200 bucks now.

00:26:22.500 And so it didn't start out with giving away quarter million dollars a year with the gifts.

00:26:26.520 It started out with one gift at a time because that's, or maybe two gifts at a time because

00:26:30.500 that's all I could afford.

00:26:31.560 Right.

00:26:32.100 Then maybe it's a, this year you're going to say, I'm going to spend $500 for the entire

00:26:36.300 year.

00:26:36.480 I'm going to buy five gifts at a hundred dollars a piece to the most important people.

00:26:39.760 And maybe some of the relationships are your inner, maybe you've ignored interpersonal relationships.

00:26:44.660 Like this isn't just a, you know, a business, even though the giftology, the book is a business

00:26:50.260 strategy book and companies use it, pro sports teams use it.

00:26:54.300 The concepts, you know, whether you're selling widgets or whether, you know, you're walking

00:26:58.760 down the street, we're all human beings trying to connect with other human beings.

00:27:01.960 Right.

00:27:02.240 So it doesn't matter your industry, your company size.

00:27:05.000 We have million dollar companies as clients.

00:27:06.860 We have $20 billion companies as clients because it has to do with people, people buy

00:27:10.780 from other people.

00:27:11.820 So I would say you don't have to be born in a certain city or have the right connections.

00:27:16.660 In fact, I think a lot of the reason I developed the concepts that we did was out of just bare

00:27:21.940 necessity of I'm not like, even though I speak all over the world now, like I was the most

00:27:26.720 shy introverted.

00:27:28.120 Like I was not the idea of public speaking.

00:27:31.340 I literally would have diarrhea for a week leading up to the, um, the speaking engagement,

00:27:35.800 just being honest.

00:27:36.560 Like I would literally like I would, my insides would turn inside out.

00:27:39.620 Like I hated it, but over time I saw the impact of doing it and how much our business grew

00:27:45.460 and how, you know, what, what people were inspired to go do as a result.

00:27:48.660 And so I overcame that horrible fear that I had.

00:27:53.560 But the bottom line is on the gifting side, you can start small.

00:27:56.480 The big key, I talked about the gratitude muscle.

00:27:59.320 The big key is identifying the people and being consistent day in and day out, week in and

00:28:03.940 week out, month in and month out.

00:28:05.340 Even if you fall off the horse, keep doing it and know that this is how the universe

00:28:09.900 is wired.

00:28:10.580 We're wired to connect with people.

00:28:12.060 We're wired for generosity.

00:28:13.940 We're wired to be, you know, love is not just for a certain type of human being.

00:28:18.760 It's for all of us.

00:28:20.180 And if that's true, then anybody can be good at this if they put their, you know, the intention

00:28:25.760 and the work in.

00:28:26.680 Men, just a quick break to tell you about our exclusive mastermind.

00:28:31.820 I mentioned this before the iron council.

00:28:33.920 This is a brotherhood of men all working to improve their lives in four key areas.

00:28:38.700 Condition, which is health calibration, which is yourself connection, which is the relationships

00:28:43.200 you have and contribution the way that you're giving back and the way that you are providing

00:28:47.720 in this world.

00:28:48.380 This week, I asked the men inside the council, what was the biggest benefit to being a member?

00:28:54.220 And the thing that kept coming up were number one, brotherhood, number two, accountability

00:28:59.060 and number three growth.

00:29:00.720 So if you're looking for those things and you want the guidance and the tools and the

00:29:04.860 direction and the clarity that you need to take your life to the next level, this is

00:29:09.380 the place for you.

00:29:10.200 This month, we're talking about and exploring the concept of stoicism and how to use it to

00:29:15.740 improve our lives.

00:29:16.940 So if you're interested in joining us in that conversation and hundreds of other conversations

00:29:20.700 that we're having and really taking your life up a notch, you can join us at orderofman.com

00:29:26.120 slash iron council.

00:29:27.940 Again, that's orderofman.com slash iron council.

00:29:30.860 Now, let me get back to my conversation with John.

00:29:34.900 I like that you talk about intention because I think it would be very easy for somebody to

00:29:39.180 listen to this and say, okay, I've got to figure out the formula, right?

00:29:41.820 Like I've got to game the system in a way that's going to produce maximum results.

00:29:45.560 And obviously there's an element, you talk about metrics to that, but the intentionality

00:29:49.300 and the motive behind what you're doing sounds a little bit more sincere than I think a lot

00:29:52.800 of people might initially believe.

00:29:54.700 Yeah.

00:29:55.220 The intention matters.

00:29:56.580 Oftentimes it's subconscious.

00:29:57.840 You meet somebody and within 30 seconds, sometimes with even 10 seconds, do I like this

00:30:01.940 person or not?

00:30:02.500 And you don't even know why.

00:30:03.420 Like there's certain cues and subconscious things going on and gifting magnifies and puts

00:30:08.560 a magnification glass on it.

00:30:10.400 And so if you're doing things with the wrong intentions, people feel that and nobody likes

00:30:16.540 to be manipulated, but everybody likes to be appreciated and treated VIP and special.

00:30:20.540 I mean, that's, you know, American Express and the black card and the VIP line at Disney

00:30:25.040 World.

00:30:25.520 Like everybody at some level loves to be treated special.

00:30:29.400 We all want to be treated as individuals.

00:30:31.060 And if you get the gifting right, you're really putting a tangible reminder in their hands that

00:30:35.760 this person cares about me and is thoughtful enough to have taken the time, energy, resources,

00:30:40.220 money to acknowledge me as a human being.

00:30:43.080 But the intention, it's amazing.

00:30:44.920 People are like, oh, I'd done the gifting thing before and it didn't work.

00:30:47.420 And I'm like, well, how did you do it?

00:30:48.880 What did the note say?

00:30:49.980 When did you give it?

00:30:51.260 Was it personalized?

00:30:52.200 Did it have your company logo on it?

00:30:53.700 Your company colors?

00:30:55.080 They're like, well, that doesn't matter.

00:30:56.760 And I'm like, that's exactly what matters.

00:31:01.180 It's like I could give the same Rolex two different ways.

00:31:04.940 In one way, it would feel like a bribe.

00:31:06.420 In one way, it would feel like it was an honor, depending upon who it was given to,

00:31:10.100 when it was given, why, what was on it, how it was packaged, what the note said.

00:31:14.640 All of those things are just as important as the item itself.

00:31:19.000 Right.

00:31:19.300 Yeah.

00:31:19.740 What's the most unique gift that you've ever given?

00:31:22.580 That I've ever been given?

00:31:23.740 That you have ever, both, I guess, that you've ever given and that you've ever received.

00:31:27.980 So I'll share one story.

00:31:29.880 There's a list of them.

00:31:30.860 I'm sure.

00:31:31.200 One of the, yeah, one of the more fun ones that I've received recently.

00:31:34.140 I had somebody reach out to me that listened to like, I think, Lewis Howell's podcast and

00:31:37.860 read the book and whatever else.

00:31:39.100 I had no connection to this person whatsoever.

00:31:41.440 And they somehow got my email address, emailed me and said, John, you don't know me.

00:31:45.180 I know this is kind of creepy, but I'm putting myself out there.

00:31:48.440 This is the kind of thing that you would do.

00:31:50.760 And so I want to do something really nice to honor you and especially your wife.

00:31:54.480 And I'm so appreciative of the book.

00:31:56.300 And this is what I've read in it and done in it.

00:31:58.400 And they really just kind of poured their heart out.

00:32:00.540 And I looked at it on a Friday night on my phone.

00:32:02.140 And I'm like, am I going to respond to this?

00:32:03.460 Like, this is a little creepy.

00:32:04.660 I put my phone down probably no less than five times.

00:32:07.160 And finally, I'm like, what's the worst that can happen?

00:32:08.600 Like, I'm just going to respond.

00:32:10.020 Five questions.

00:32:10.780 Took me like five minutes to answer.

00:32:12.700 And the guy emails back like a week later and said, hey, the gifts are ready.

00:32:16.340 I'd like to hand deliver them to you.

00:32:17.340 I'm like, OK.

00:32:18.140 So I set up a meeting like 530 so I could bail out at six to go home if I had to.

00:32:22.340 Right.

00:32:22.620 In a public setting, right?

00:32:23.840 In a public setting.

00:32:24.780 Yeah, at a restaurant.

00:32:25.520 Yeah, the whole nine yards.

00:32:26.240 And in walks his kid at 530 and he's got like a Tupperware, big Tupperware tub and whatever

00:32:32.340 else.

00:32:32.560 I'm like, what's going to come out of this thing?

00:32:34.320 Real nice.

00:32:35.020 And he pulls out. 0.77

00:32:35.800 And I used to make fun of mugs because I was like, nobody needs a freaking corporate 0.93

00:32:38.940 mug, a mug. 0.78

00:32:39.600 Like, everybody has a mug.

00:32:40.540 Like, they don't need a mug.

00:32:41.580 I don't care if it has chocolate in it.

00:32:42.860 Like, the mug's just a lame gift.

00:32:44.600 Right.

00:32:44.740 He pulls out this hand-carved, beautiful mug that literally tells my wife's entire life

00:32:50.100 story of like her dad on the farm.

00:32:51.780 Her dad had passed away.

00:32:52.920 And it was like, I'm like in tears.

00:32:55.100 And it was like a $250 mug.

00:32:57.080 And then he pulls one out and it's for me.

00:32:58.980 And it's my whole life story.

00:32:59.980 Being on the farm and basketball is a passion of mine.

00:33:02.700 All these other things.

00:33:03.380 I'm like, oh my gosh.

00:33:04.580 And then he pulls out two vases that he carved that told our life story together.

00:33:09.920 And it was like $2,000 worth of stuff. 0.99

00:33:12.200 And I'm like, I can't, I'm thinking in my head, like, what a schmuck am I? 0.98

00:33:15.180 I almost didn't receive this gift. 0.96

00:33:17.180 I said, where are you from again?

00:33:18.760 He's like, you know, like, tell me your story.

00:33:20.520 He's like, I'm 23.

00:33:21.500 I just graduated a couple years ago.

00:33:22.700 My wife's a senior in college.

00:33:24.120 She works at Chick-fil-A.

00:33:24.900 We're expecting our first daughter.

00:33:26.440 I'm like, this is crazy.

00:33:28.120 You're from Atlanta?

00:33:29.000 He's like, yeah.

00:33:29.600 But I said, are you up here for a conference?

00:33:31.220 He's like, no, I drove up here.

00:33:32.460 I'm like, how far is that?

00:33:34.260 He's like, it's an eight and a half hour drive.

00:33:36.280 You drove eight and a half hours for basically a five minute meeting to handle everything?

00:33:39.560 He's like, yeah.

00:33:40.560 I'm like, dude, you're right.

00:33:41.820 So I'm like, I need to get you a hotel.

00:33:43.880 I, you know, he's like, oh, that's okay.

00:33:45.500 Like my dad, I promised my dad I wouldn't drive back.

00:33:47.820 I'll find a hotel.

00:33:48.800 So I go home, I pull and drive.

00:33:50.920 I'm late.

00:33:51.560 You know, I'd stayed too long, you know, like probably a couple hours with him. 0.98

00:33:54.500 And my wife was like, she's used to that kind of crap with me. 0.98

00:33:57.600 Like, she's like, okay, what's the story? 0.99

00:33:59.460 I'm like, well, check this out.

00:34:01.300 And she's like in tears.

00:34:02.480 She's like, where's he staying?

00:34:03.580 I'm like, I'm trying to get him at a hotel.

00:34:05.900 She's like, no, he's got to stay with us.

00:34:07.820 Really?

00:34:08.820 And my wife's pretty private.

00:34:10.200 Yeah.

00:34:10.660 I'm like, but she was so moved.

00:34:12.400 She's like, that kind of person has to stay at our house. 1.00

00:34:15.140 So now we're like using him as one of our top go-to guests for clients.

00:34:20.360 And people are just like, they're getting him for their wives, for their husbands, for

00:34:23.320 their assistants, for their clients.

00:34:24.720 They're just blown away because it's like, you know, everybody drinks tea or coffee or

00:34:30.160 most of the world does.

00:34:31.380 And yet it's like this piece of art that I call it a practical luxury.

00:34:34.360 It's like a usable trophy.

00:34:35.540 It's like you can use it and it reminds you of who you are and where you've come from.

00:34:39.600 It's like the most perfect gift.

00:34:42.500 And yet it was $250.

00:34:44.620 You know, people blow that on expensive bottle of wine that's consumed in 15 minutes.

00:34:48.660 Right.

00:34:48.780 And yet now you have something that you'll have and probably passed down to your kids

00:34:52.160 or grandkids.

00:34:53.560 And so even the most mundane object, if done well and right and with all the details, can

00:34:58.960 be really meaningful.

00:34:59.940 And so that was one of the cooler ones, not only that I've received, but we've now started

00:35:05.400 to do it for some of our closest friends and clients and family and partners.

00:35:09.820 And people are just like, there's nobody that's getting it and not tearing up.

00:35:13.880 Yeah, I bet.

00:35:15.080 Let's go with that story for a second, because it sounds like this has turned into not only

00:35:19.740 a relationship, but a business opportunity for this young man.

00:35:23.080 What's the follow up look like?

00:35:24.680 Is this something that you've offered now to your clients?

00:35:28.080 Did he follow up with you after this?

00:35:29.720 How do we follow up when we give a gift of this caliber?

00:35:32.860 Yeah, well, I think it was obvious that there was a hope on his side.

00:35:36.580 He did it, you know, with good intentions, but like anything, like he hopes for profit and

00:35:40.680 he knew that when, when, when, um, when I got the gifts, I connected the dots and I'm

00:35:46.280 like, dude, how many of these can you make?

00:35:47.520 He's like, well, right now they're taking like four or five hours each, but we could scale

00:35:51.740 that down and probably get them done, you know, with some help and some apprentices and

00:35:55.400 whatever else down to excellent, you know, an hour or two and, you know, and add other

00:35:59.300 people.

00:35:59.640 And he's like, but the funny thing is, he's like, I won't sell them to people unless they're 1.00

00:36:03.260 giving, buying them as gifts.

00:36:04.920 You can't order one for yourself.

00:36:06.560 So he has like, you know, his heart's in the right place and he's doing things the right

00:36:10.840 way.

00:36:11.280 And, and so I started to connect the dots.

00:36:13.020 I'm like, dude, I know like this will never, I shouldn't say never, this is not likely to

00:36:16.780 be a huge business, but I think this is a really special gift.

00:36:19.000 And I would like to figure out how both of us can win in something like this and honor

00:36:24.160 you and funnel business your way.

00:36:26.240 And, and we win and our clients win and the recipients win.

00:36:29.540 And I'm naturally a connector and I try to find the win-win and angle for everybody automatically.

00:36:34.740 But I think in general, like, you know, when you give a gift like that, you know, sometimes

00:36:39.640 there's a lot of patience involved of like, you don't want to, last you want to do is send

00:36:44.180 a gift and be like, Hey, did you get my gift?

00:36:45.700 Right.

00:36:46.000 And what do you think?

00:36:47.220 And do you want to partner?

00:36:47.920 And you can take and ruin the gift if you don't do it the right way.

00:36:51.520 Now we can, you know, for our clients, we will confirm that they receive the gift because

00:36:55.400 sometimes I would say one, 2% of our gifts either get stolen or UPS does something crazy

00:37:00.240 with it or, you know, like you just never know.

00:37:02.400 And so you do want to confirm that they actually receive it.

00:37:04.200 Cause sometimes you're thinking like, did they get the gift?

00:37:05.920 I don't know if they got the gift.

00:37:06.860 Did they like the gift?

00:37:07.620 Did they hate it?

00:37:08.420 But there's also an element of like, they might be traveling for a month or maybe their

00:37:11.620 kid's sick.

00:37:12.580 And so I think there's an element of, you know, and that's where people are like, well, I

00:37:16.100 sent one gift and it didn't work.

00:37:17.840 And I'm like, well, first off, that's one gift.

00:37:21.260 And like, you know, you said, if you told me you sent a hundred gifts and didn't get any

00:37:24.840 feedback, then I would say you're probably sending the wrong gift or doing things.

00:37:28.740 Yeah.

00:37:29.300 Let's get this figured out.

00:37:30.140 But you can't send one or whatever else.

00:37:32.320 And you can't necessarily like, I even tell like our financial advisor clients and other

00:37:35.740 people that are in, you know, higher level relationship building, you need to be committed

00:37:39.680 to this for at least three years.

00:37:40.960 If you think that you're just going to send out gifts one time or for one year and all

00:37:44.520 of a sudden, like this, everything's going to happen massively.

00:37:47.440 Like that's not how it works.

00:37:48.440 Like even Gary yesterday was speaking, he's like, I did a wine library.tv and I made $2,900

00:37:54.420 in sales over the first 18 months and he was pouring in, adding value.

00:37:59.960 Yeah.

00:38:00.100 I'm sure you saw this with your podcast and other things that you're doing.

00:38:03.220 I went for nine months before I made a dime, a nine months of just everything into this

00:38:08.140 thing.

00:38:08.600 Yeah.

00:38:09.060 And gifting is the exact same way.

00:38:10.700 Like you have to prime the pump.

00:38:12.540 Time is your most precious asset.

00:38:14.820 Like you got to give yourself time for the gifts to work and to jog the memory and for

00:38:18.880 the spouse to be impacted and, you know, for people to use it and other people to comment

00:38:23.200 on it.

00:38:24.000 Sometimes it's just the timing alone.

00:38:25.840 Like they're not in a place.

00:38:27.040 Maybe they're going through a divorce right now or their kid or their parents got Alzheimer's

00:38:30.980 and their head's just not in the game.

00:38:32.600 And so it's not that you gave a sucky gift or that the relationship isn't there, but people

00:38:36.540 are going through stuff all the time.

00:38:39.380 And oftentimes your priorities are not their priorities.

00:38:42.040 That's just the bottom line.

00:38:43.420 And even given a thoughtful gift, while it might be memorable and thoughtful and stand out,

00:38:47.640 you know, you have to give yourself that, that kind of long game viewpoint, um, in order

00:38:51.880 for things to work.

00:38:52.760 And most people are impatient and they want the quick fix and they want the hack and you

00:38:58.720 know, this, you know, gifting while can accelerate things, but it's not like you still have to

00:39:02.980 do the work and you still got to allow enough time for things to happen.

00:39:06.180 Right, right.

00:39:07.140 Well, I think we're just scratching the surface.

00:39:08.960 And to me, it sounds like even a process of experimentation and just being creative.

00:39:13.300 I'm thinking here now, and I've got, like I said, this list in front of me, I've got

00:39:16.220 ideas.

00:39:16.680 My brain's just turning, like I can do this and this and this.

00:39:19.000 So this has been a really fascinating conversation.

00:39:21.500 And again, I know it can get a lot deeper, but for the sake of time, we'll wind things

00:39:24.280 up here.

00:39:25.060 I do want to ask you a couple other questions, John, as we wind down.

00:39:28.120 And the first one is what does it mean to be a man?

00:39:32.180 Yeah.

00:39:32.320 I mean, I think that, uh, in my context, I think about a man leading their family and

00:39:38.000 you know, I know not everybody on your show is married, but I, when I think of a man,

00:39:41.000 I think of like a leader, spiritual leader, oftentimes breadwinner, the shepherd of their

00:39:46.740 kids and shepherding their hearts and kind of modeling work ethic.

00:39:50.600 Those are the things that come to mind, strength and protection.

00:39:53.220 Like, and at the same time, being the person that cares for a significant other's wife's

00:39:58.600 heart.

00:39:58.900 Like those are, when I think about being a man and the things that I'm called to do

00:40:02.420 and get better at and succeed at that, uh, those are the areas that, uh, that are on my

00:40:07.780 heart.

00:40:08.200 Yeah.

00:40:08.540 I love it.

00:40:09.020 Right on.

00:40:09.520 Well, John, how do we connect with you?

00:40:10.940 How do we buy the book?

00:40:11.740 How do we learn more about the work that you're doing?

00:40:13.780 Yeah.

00:40:14.180 Well, I would say one thing that we created, you know, for your listeners that might be

00:40:17.460 a value.

00:40:17.940 Sometimes people like I can't afford John or whatever else.

00:40:20.540 And whether that's true or not, like they want to go do it on their own and experiment,

00:40:23.580 but they just need kind of like when you take your kids bowling, like they just need

00:40:26.980 sometimes the bumper bowling.

00:40:28.280 So they bought, you know, the ball doesn't go in the gutter.

00:40:30.360 And so they just need guardrails.

00:40:31.800 And so we created a PDF, the top 10 worst gifts to avoid giving.

00:40:35.720 And so we created this PDF, this, I think that people can kind of relate to, so they

00:40:39.380 can at least, whether it's for themselves or their marketing team.

00:40:42.100 And if you go to giftology book, all one word, so giftology book.com slash order of

00:40:47.000 man, you can get that free download and take it and use it.

00:40:50.020 And at least kind of give you some, some guidelines.

00:40:52.540 If you don't want to go buy the book or check it out, the books available on audible and

00:40:56.860 Kindle and everything else on Amazon, they want to check it out there.

00:40:59.740 And the outsourced gifting company is ruling group.

00:41:02.760 My last name, R-U-H-L-I-N group.com.

00:41:05.820 And that tells like some of the cool projects we've done with like the Chicago Cubs and,

00:41:09.380 and also other companies.

00:41:10.700 And then more of the speaking thought leadership is John ruling, all one word.com.

00:41:15.600 And that's more like me speaking at fortune and those kinds of places.

00:41:18.940 Right on.

00:41:19.500 Yeah.

00:41:19.640 We'll make sure we link all that up.

00:41:20.920 I got to say, I'd be a little nervous to download your 10 worst gifts to give.

00:41:25.180 Cause I'm sure I've hit all 10 of those.

00:41:27.620 In fact, I know I did this week because one of my gifts was declined by somebody that I

00:41:32.000 wanted to send it to you.

00:41:32.900 And I'm like, oh yeah, that probably wasn't a great gift to send.

00:41:35.900 Oh, Hey man, even I'll tell you, like I fall on my face, like the way you learn and try

00:41:41.860 and error and like, and here's the thing there, there are like for every rule that we make,

00:41:46.140 there are times that are outliers that, you know, the rules are made to be broken.

00:41:49.520 So like I say, Apple is one of the worst gifts you can give because everybody has like iPhones

00:41:54.460 and iPads and whatever else.

00:41:55.560 But there are times where, you know, you find out somebody broke their iPhone and you surprise

00:41:59.620 them with a new one or something like that.

00:42:01.000 Cause you knew it was busted up.

00:42:02.400 So take the 10 worst gifts to give with a grain of salt.

00:42:06.040 Like it's not an absolute every single time always, but they're general guidelines of,

00:42:11.220 you know, what makes a good gift and what makes a bad gift.

00:42:13.900 And really giftology, we go into deep detail on our entire game plan.

00:42:17.580 So you can kind of, you know, you want the quick version, download the PDF.

00:42:21.060 You want the more in detail version, go get the book.

00:42:23.240 Right on.

00:42:23.480 Yeah.

00:42:23.680 And I would, I would suggest they do that as well.

00:42:26.020 I mean, I, it's been valuable for me just in the what month or so that I've been using

00:42:29.900 the strategies that you're teaching.

00:42:31.140 So John, I appreciate you, man.

00:42:32.680 I appreciate our friendship.

00:42:33.660 I do feel like we have a deeper connection than a lot of my podcast guests, just because

00:42:37.160 we have connected through, through a gift and your generosity as well.

00:42:41.620 So I can tell that this is something that definitely works and it's connected us and got to let

00:42:45.620 you know, I do appreciate you.

00:42:47.080 Yeah, man.

00:42:47.660 Well, I can't wait to see it at Roman's front row.

00:42:49.840 Dad's retreat was in two weeks.

00:42:51.640 So dude, we'll get a chance to bond even deeper and have some fun and talk about what it means

00:42:56.360 to be a father.

00:42:57.080 So dude, thanks for having me on your show.

00:42:58.840 Right on, man.

00:42:59.280 Looking forward to it.

00:43:01.700 There it is, men, Mr. John Rulon.

00:43:03.800 If you are not convinced about the power of appreciation and gratitude and giving gifts,

00:43:10.120 I don't know what to say.

00:43:11.260 John has used some of his strategies, some of these techniques that he talked about with me.

00:43:15.040 I've used them with some of my friends and clients.

00:43:17.040 I can tell you they work.

00:43:18.040 So if you are interested in learning more about what he's up to, make sure you check out his

00:43:22.000 work by his book.

00:43:23.240 It's a great book.

00:43:23.880 It's a fast read.

00:43:24.920 You can find the link to that book and some of the show notes again at order of man.com

00:43:29.340 slash one zero seven.

00:43:31.640 In the meantime, and guys, if you are ready to take your life to the next level again, make

00:43:36.540 sure you join us inside of our mastermind, the iron council.

00:43:39.380 Remember this month, we are going to be talking all about the concept of stoicism.

00:43:43.540 And most importantly, how we can implement, implement what we talk about to enhance our

00:43:49.540 lives and the lives of those that we have a responsibility for and the lives of those

00:43:53.380 we care about.

00:43:54.000 If you're interested in learning more about what we're up to and all that is included

00:43:57.440 in your membership, head to order of man.com slash iron council.

00:44:01.060 And I hope to see you there.

00:44:02.600 I'll look forward to talking with you on Friday for our Friday field notes.

00:44:05.760 But until then, take action and become the man you were meant to be.

00:44:09.840 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

00:44:13.720 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:44:17.740 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:44:20.860 You're ready.

Order of Man - April 04, 2017

107： The Art and Science of Giving Gifts ｜ John Ruhlin

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