Order of Man - 127： How to Market Yourself ｜ Noah Kagan

00:00:00.000 Whether you own a business or you're working your way up the corporate ladder,

00:00:03.220 learning how to more effectively market yourself is critical. Guys, this one is a little different

00:00:08.600 as you listen in on the conversation I have with my friend Noah Kagan. We talk about business,

00:00:13.840 side hustles, living from your purpose, and I even get into a small discussion about my religion,

00:00:19.020 which is something I don't talk a whole lot about. But the underlying theme to the conversation that

00:00:23.300 we have today is how to be more effective when it comes to marketing yourself.

00:00:27.640 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly

00:00:32.440 chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You

00:00:38.300 are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:45.760 This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:50.520 you can call yourself a man. Men, what is going on today? My name is

00:00:54.440 Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and founder of this podcast, The Order of Man. Whether you are

00:00:59.300 listening in for the first time today or you're a long-time veteran of The Order of Man podcast,

00:01:05.220 I want to welcome you. The truth is that, guys, we just wouldn't be where we are today without you.

00:01:10.200 In fact, just last week, we hit 3 million downloads, which is a huge number and, of course,

00:01:17.040 a testament to every single one of you who listen to this show. So I want to thank you for that.

00:01:20.800 Also, I do, at the same time, want to ask you for a favor. We still have a lot of work to do and a

00:01:26.200 lot of room to do it. Please invite other men in your life, your dad, your brother, friends,

00:01:32.500 colleagues, co-workers, any men that you know who would benefit from what we're sharing here at The

00:01:37.060 Order of Man. I don't have any announcements for you guys today as we just wrapped up our first live

00:01:43.100 meetup, which was such a huge success. I had such a great weekend with the guys, 75 guys from all over

00:01:48.540 the country. We are going to be releasing the date and the location of our next event in the coming

00:01:53.560 weeks. So make sure if you miss this one and you want to be out there that you be on the lookout

00:01:57.800 for that. In the meantime, if you are looking to expand upon this conversation and any conversation

00:02:02.980 that we have here on the podcast, you can do that in two different places. The first one is in our

00:02:08.360 Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash order of men and more formally and maybe a little

00:02:15.580 bit more structured is our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council. And you can learn more about

00:02:20.280 that and join us at order of man.com slash iron council. I'm going to tell you a little bit more

00:02:24.760 about it during our break in the show. Guys, my guest today, as I mentioned before is Noah Kagan.

00:02:30.120 Some of you will recognize the name others will not, but if you run a website in some form or the other,

00:02:36.880 and you have a business, I'm sure that you're already using the tools that he created for his

00:02:41.280 business. He is the founder of app sumo and sumo. He was employee number 30 at Facebook and employee

00:02:48.440 number four at mint. If you want to read some interesting stories, look into how he separated

00:02:53.520 from each of those companies. In other words, the guy knows what he's doing. He knows how to market

00:02:57.680 himself and he knows how to do things on a large scale. So with that, sit back, take notes if you

00:03:04.600 need to and listen in and in a way be a fly on the wall with my conversation with Noah Kagan on

00:03:10.360 marketing yourself. How did you get into what you're doing, man? I mean, I know you were at

00:03:16.060 Facebook, you were at mint and then, and then what? Like where did it go? Yeah. My journey,

00:03:20.220 I always try to relate it to the people listening to, cause sometimes I hear people's stories and

00:03:23.460 I'm like, well, yeah, I'm at my job that sucks or I'm running my thing. And so I've always want to

00:03:26.860 try to share what I've learned. And my, my dream was literally to go to the beaches of Thailand and

00:03:31.460 have sex on the beach and like work on an internet company. Like no joke. Like I was literally, 0.96

00:03:36.920 I wanted, I don't know how PG 13 is, but I want to hand jobs for food or whatever. Like I just

00:03:42.760 went in my laptop and chilling on the fucking beach. That was my dream. So at night and in the mornings 1.00

00:03:47.480 and weekends, I was building Facebook games. You remember that annoying fucking like Farmville 0.99

00:03:51.340 shit? Yep. Yep. Yeah. So I was one of the first guys cause I saw that there was an opportunity there. 1.00

00:03:55.900 I'm generally not the first. Is this when you were with Facebook or is this outside of that?

00:04:00.120 It was at Mint. Okay. Right afterwards. But a lot of people, I mean, you have kids, so I actually

00:04:03.640 respect people more that have kids and start their own things. Cause like I don't have kids

00:04:07.200 and my, my brother has a kid and the amount of extra time they take is just insane. Especially

00:04:12.420 if you want to be a good parent, if you want to be a bad parent, then it's fine.

00:04:15.200 It's cool. You're good. Actually, Dale talked about that this morning. He said, you know,

00:04:18.640 I could probably go like an extra two speeds with my business, but I deliberately and intentionally

00:04:23.860 choose not to because I have this other priority that's important to me. So I, yeah, it's what

00:04:27.900 you're saying is valid for sure. Well, also the thing with being a, I think my friend came up with a

00:04:31.600 theory called, uh, you know, everyone's looking for productivity hacks. It's like,

00:04:34.640 have a kid. It's like, dude, when you have a kid, I've got five hours to work. And if I don't get

00:04:41.260 my shit done in five hours, like it is not happening. Yeah. Yeah. So I might get the girl 1.00

00:04:45.880 I'm seeing pregnant just so I can see if this works. Just long term experiment, brother. Like 1.00

00:04:51.540 you better be sure that's, that's the thing you want to do. So yeah, I mean, long story short,

00:04:56.960 yeah. Mornings, nights, weekends. And I built the Facebook game and I think if everyone wants to quit

00:05:01.100 their job, you know, and I don't think everyone should quit their job. It's some jobs are actually

00:05:04.580 great. Yeah. And most of the time running your own company isn't as glamorous as it seems. I'm sure

00:05:08.240 you know that it's, it's not lonely at the top. Cause I mean, top is relative, but there's good

00:05:12.280 things about being a part of a company and a team. And so you have to work from like, well, how much

00:05:16.640 money do I need to run my own, my own deal? You just do like your minimum, like basically your

00:05:21.580 minimum expenses for the month. Is that how you do that? Yeah. So I was like, well, if I'm living in

00:05:25.800 Thailand and I want a little bit of savings, I basically calculated $3,500 a month and everyone's got

00:05:30.160 their own number. Right. And so I'm not, I think a lot of people think you, when you start a company,

00:05:34.020 you've got to quit your job and just go do it. And that's just never how I've been. I'm much more

00:05:37.920 calculated about, all right, either a, am I making that amount of money in terms of monthly taken

00:05:42.140 or B is it showing me that I can make it? I've never just quit and like hoped it works.

00:05:47.380 I don't know if anybody has, like everybody talks about that, but then you're like, well,

00:05:51.000 so what'd you do? Oh, well, my story was different. I didn't do it that way. I didn't burn the

00:05:54.680 bridges. I did it this way. Yeah. I think you should do that.

00:05:57.220 Yeah. Good luck. Well, I think the burn the bridges strategy, you know, or I think I like

00:06:02.500 the phrase burn the plank. So you have to just go off of it. Right. I think that's actually really

00:06:06.780 good. I think so many times when people are starting businesses, they just kind of like half

00:06:10.540 asset so that when it fails, they're like, you know, I really didn't try that hard. It's like,

00:06:14.440 well, why did you go in expecting it to fail? Right. Right. That's like, why, why get married

00:06:19.020 expecting to get a divorce? Or, you know, yeah, you know, the one I hear a lot is, is like, well,

00:06:24.040 you know, I've, I've got 12 months of expenses saved up. I'm going to go do this. And then they

00:06:29.340 don't do anything. And it's like, well, I still have eight months of expenses saved up. I still

00:06:33.140 have three months like, oh man, now I need to get to do something. And they have to go back to work

00:06:37.180 because they never got started, even though they had things aligned to be able to do it.

00:06:41.140 I think the simple solution tying everything we've talked about is, you know, what's worked for me in my

00:06:44.760 career and help makes relatively successful companies. You know, I'm proud of them is pick something

00:06:49.480 that you're interested in. So the companies that have done well for me and I've stuck around is that I just

00:06:53.360 solved my own problems. I didn't try to fix other people's problems. I don't try to create products

00:06:57.740 specifically designated for women because I don't know what women want a lot of the time. 1.00

00:07:02.860 So, I mean, so the understanding is like, well, what, and it's not just about women or whatever

00:07:06.740 genders or race. It's like, yeah, it's like, well, what, what do I want for myself? And it's like,

00:07:11.640 well, I wanted cheap deals. I wanted good deals on products. So I started AppSumo and then I wanted

00:07:15.980 tools to grow my email list. And we started sumo.com and it's very easy to promote those things and

00:07:20.560 stick with them when you want them for yourself. And then the second thing is you're saying like

00:07:24.740 the podcast stuff, like as I started my show, Noah Kagan, I just really just love fucking talk. It 0.97

00:07:29.300 gives me like a great excuse to meet people I want to meet for sure. Yeah. And I don't make any money

00:07:33.440 off it. I have no products on it or anything. And it's just like, that's something I like doing.

00:07:38.620 So to your point, which I think is great is like, find something you want, stick with it for a long

00:07:42.940 time and keep improving, like keep experimenting with like, all right, now try this type of guest or try this

00:07:47.340 type of format. And, you know, over a long period of time, if you can stick with it,

00:07:51.880 you will get whatever you want. Yeah. I mean, that's worked up to this point for us. So I guess

00:07:55.620 the question then is when are we going to have like a taco review website out or something like that?

00:08:02.560 On my side, I really do eat a lot of tacos. I know. That's what I'm saying. I'm like,

00:08:06.120 you solve your own problems. Here you go. Here's a perfect opportunity.

00:08:09.420 I think there's, you know, I talked to a friend about this and I think there's things that are

00:08:12.260 personal and I think there's things that are business. And I do think sometimes we want to

00:08:16.320 do a personal thing as part of our business, but it's like, that's your personal stuff.

00:08:19.440 Yeah. Yeah. I think you can, you should definitely merge who you are in your company. And I said

00:08:23.640 this yesterday and it was, I think it's very true. Companies are basically physical representations of

00:08:27.800 the founder. So the company really, if you're disorganized and your company will be disorganized.

00:08:32.200 If you're got your shit together, your company will probably have a shit together. And so I've 0.99

00:08:35.820 thought about, do I want to open a taco stand or a taco website? I don't think that's how I want to

00:08:39.360 spend the next five years. Yeah. You just want to eat tacos, right? Yeah. I mean, I want to talk about

00:08:43.360 tacos and it's just more of like, I just really eat a lot of them.

00:08:47.700 I built a, uh, I, this was a couple of months ago. I built a grow box for my wife cause she 0.77

00:08:52.020 wanted to plant her garden in eight of these grow boxes. And our neighbor came over and said,

00:08:57.260 Hey, will you build me one of those? I'll pay you. I'm like, no, I like, I like working out in the

00:09:01.400 shop, but the minute I have to do it for somebody else and be in a contract and payment and everything

00:09:05.940 else like that strips everything that I like about being out in the shop on these projects. So I

00:09:12.380 declined that. So I can see there's a difference between, Hey, this is what I enjoy. Let's just

00:09:15.920 keep it as an enjoyment or a hobby versus, Hey, let's try to make this a career.

00:09:20.160 Yeah. I remember a story. I met a guy who's like a, not a Somalia, but like loved wine and

00:09:25.440 we're doing a workshop about how to start a business. And he said, you know, I really want

00:09:30.680 to do, uh, teach people like classes for wine. And I said, well, does anyone here want to sign

00:09:36.040 up for it? And no one wanted it. Yeah. And then, then we were like, all right, well, what do

00:09:40.760 people want? And they're like, man, I, if I have a date, I just want to be able to like

00:09:43.480 look up which bottle of wine to buy. And then everyone's like, yeah, dude, I would pay for

00:09:46.960 this. I'll give him money. I'll pay, I'll give you money right now to tilt, to tell me

00:09:50.860 this stuff. And the guy, what I respect, he was like, no, I'm not interested in that.

00:09:55.500 And, uh, and it's not necessarily personal business, but I think there's something there

00:09:58.760 about staying true to what you really want versus just like, cause everybody else is wanting

00:10:02.680 it. And that's the challenge in business, especially what I've been noticing is that you have

00:10:06.640 this Venn diagram of like shit I really want to do. And then there's a reality of what 0.98

00:10:10.700 actually people want to give me money for and figuring out that happy medium for yourself.

00:10:15.280 How do you do that? If you don't know what it is, if you don't know what you want,

00:10:18.740 no, if you don't know if they'll pay for it. I think that's a problem I'm noticing with

00:10:22.780 people is that a lot of people think they have marketing problems in business. And I love

00:10:26.000 marketing. It's like my favorite thing is to find great people or products and promote

00:10:29.060 them. And a lot of times when someone's marketing isn't working, it's not the marketing.

00:10:32.580 It's just that the product sucks. They're like, Oh, I need more marketing help. And it's

00:10:36.080 like, no one wants what you're having. Like no one wants it. So there's no amount of people

00:10:39.880 help. Did you watch that restaurant show he had? He'd go in there and be like, Oh,

00:10:43.340 our food's wonderful. And he's like, let me taste your food. He's like, no, that's your

00:10:46.740 problem. Your food is horrible. So are you saying that the product sells itself?

00:10:52.620 Yeah, it's not completely like if you write a great article and no one reads it, it's not

00:10:56.740 a great article. If you write a shitty article and a bunch of people read, it doesn't mean

00:11:00.260 it's a great article, but it means at least you have that attention to it and then you can 0.93

00:11:03.580 get better. And hopefully it's not a bad article. But the point overall is that you actually

00:11:07.140 have to go out and tell the world about what you're making. And if it's not great, most

00:11:11.380 things aren't great right away. Right? So if it's like a total sham thing, then that's

00:11:15.440 on you and I don't want to be a part of that. But if you, I think most people in general

00:11:18.400 are promoting probably like 20% of what they actually should be doing if they've made something

00:11:22.360 that they're proud of. Right? So if you've created software or a course or like a content

00:11:27.340 thing, I think more people could probably spend a lot more time telling the world about

00:11:30.480 it if it's actually as good as they believe it is. Yeah. And so this sounds like it's

00:11:35.580 my problem, man. You're talking to me now. I think it's a lot of our problem. I think

00:11:40.660 there's people who definitely are known for like hyper self-promotion and you know, some

00:11:45.820 of it's valid and some of it's not, but there's something there where like they have the confidence

00:11:48.860 or at least the moxie to go try it out. Right. And maybe I'm speaking to myself too. No, 1.00

00:11:53.320 I mean, and it seems like, you know, you see these guys who do promote themselves and

00:11:56.200 they're, they're, they're past that line of maybe like pride and they get into arrogance

00:12:00.540 and a little bit of ego driven. And so you see that and you're like, Oh, I don't want

00:12:04.020 to be that. But then at the same time, like there's no denying a lot of these guys have

00:12:06.760 some success, right? Yeah. I think everyone just, and my debate, someone said this and

00:12:11.760 I think it's very well with Greg McCown from essentialism book, which is amazing. He says,

00:12:16.300 do you want to be a King or do you want to be a King maker? And I think some people have

00:12:20.520 to decide, do they want to be like a promoter and like yourself where you help promote different

00:12:23.680 things? Or do you want to be making products that are, you know, physical service products,

00:12:27.840 whatever it is. But I think overall, like if you've made something you're semi proud of,

00:12:31.660 more people should do a better job of letting others know about it. And what I've noticed,

00:12:36.000 especially with businesses that we don't actually want to let people know because if they reject

00:12:40.420 us, we think they're rejecting us. Right. As opposed to the product or whatever. Exactly.

00:12:45.060 Well, so a story recently for me is my friend Dustin. He runs Fitfly Shaker and I've been

00:12:49.040 telling the story cause I love the guy, but no one wants to buy his product.

00:12:52.220 What is it? So I think I'm not using it right now. So a Fitfly Shaker is that he works out a lot.

00:12:58.620 And so it's a disposable bag that you can put protein in and you take it to the gym,

00:13:03.280 fill it up with water, take your protein drink after the workout and then throw it away.

00:13:06.460 Okay. Yeah. Make sense? Yeah, I get it. So a lot of gym people don't do that cause they either

00:13:11.340 have the protein bottles and it's not, you have to buy your own protein. Yeah. So you have your own

00:13:16.120 water bottle or you have your own bottle or you don't do it. Right. And then you throw it away. So some of

00:13:20.120 people are like, Oh man, that's a dick dude. You're wasting the environment, but you have 0.99

00:13:24.060 the confidence. And so I think when you start a business, there's that contrast of if you go on

00:13:27.760 Amazon and search travel water bottle, there's thousands of reviews of travel water bottles

00:13:32.960 that are the same exact product. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Almost identical. And when starting a

00:13:39.000 business, I think that's where you have to recognize like, yeah, you can go promote the shit 0.97

00:13:41.640 out of something, but if no one's wanting it, then you're gonna have a fucking tough time. And so you 0.98

00:13:45.480 have to actually just be aware. And I've, the way I've been thinking about it for my own life is when

00:13:49.360 I'm having problems, I think sometimes I just think up, down, like my head goes up and down,

00:13:52.960 like binary. Sure. And I'm like, Oh, I'm only looking up and down. Is there a lateral thing?

00:13:56.960 So is there somewhere to the left and right, like around me to actually solve the problem I'm facing?

00:14:01.380 Cause I think I just get so, I think of it like dinner. I'm like, I'm going to have this fucking 0.98

00:14:05.240 dinner. I'm going to go get that, the sushi tonight. There's a place at Uchiko. And then my friend's 0.99

00:14:09.200 like, Hey, I really want to go get Italian. And it's just so hard for me to get out of my like binary scope.

00:14:14.020 Yeah. Yeah. If, uh, do you know who Neil deGrasse Tyson is? Yeah. So he talks about this. He talks

00:14:20.580 about it in the context of dimension. So what he says, he says, we live, imagine that we live like

00:14:25.200 on this piece of paper, for example. Right. And so everything that we say is on or everything that

00:14:30.120 we do and experience is on this piece of paper. But what if something reached down and actually

00:14:36.240 grabbed you from this, this separate dimension, which is space, right? Reach down. And I think that's

00:14:42.340 what you're talking about here. Like, this is where I geek out on this stuff, but, um, it's a

00:14:46.500 separate dimension and it's a new perspective and one that you can't see in your current little box

00:14:50.560 or piece of paper that you're living on. I think that's great, man. Hey, so maybe the moral of the

00:14:56.500 story for yourself and myself is that go out and tell one more person than you usually do about what

00:15:02.100 you made. That's kind of the short of it. I mean, when I, I think when we've done something that

00:15:07.520 we're proud of, we know it. Like when you've done great work, when you've done a good podcast

00:15:11.580 episode or a great article, or you put together something with your mastermind, like we, you know,

00:15:15.980 right. You know, and if you don't know, go find great people or great things to admire so that you

00:15:20.420 can improve your own like a barometer of greatness. Yeah. That's a good point. How do you expand?

00:15:26.220 And you, you say barometer and I've heard it, you know, a lot of different ways, but how do you expand

00:15:30.180 your current level of thinking personally? Like what do you do to expose yourself to new information or new

00:15:36.200 thoughts? A few different things personally. So number one, I, I look for experts that I can pay.

00:15:43.300 Why, why is paying important? Cause I could, cause if you said I look for experts, everybody would

00:15:47.940 nod their head, but you said, and pay, talk to me about that. Yeah. So two, I'll just give you two

00:15:52.540 examples for myself. So like, let's say for my YouTube channel, I want to grow my YouTube channel

00:15:57.800 and I'm curious. It's a fun experiment. It's kind of like, to your point, I want to have an experiment

00:16:00.940 with it and I can go watch a bunch of videos, which I'm doing. And I'm reading a bunch of blog posts,

00:16:05.780 which I'm doing and I'm doing the videos myself and I'm looking at the data and it's going okay.

00:16:10.920 But other people have already figured it out. And for, you know, this guy, Tim Schmoyer,

00:16:16.360 he runs a creator's channel, video creator. And for $400, you can hang out with him for an hour

00:16:21.840 and he's already gone through to the promised land and he will show you the things and teach me the

00:16:26.720 things that have already happened. And the same thing with my podcast. What are the top 10 podcasts?

00:16:31.100 They're all NPR, right? All of them. One of them is Joe Rogan. It's like Joe Rogan or something like

00:16:36.460 that. But yeah, exactly. So I was thinking to myself, well, why don't I just learn how the hell

00:16:40.920 they do their shows? Cause they've already figured it out. And so I found one guy that's there and I

00:16:47.640 spent two hours with them and we reviewed my existing shows, my outlines and my future shows.

00:16:51.740 And he like dramatically changed the way I did my podcast. And the reason I pay, it's not even a lot

00:16:57.200 of money. People are like, well, you've got money. It's easier for you. It's like 500 bucks,

00:17:00.040 which sounds like a lot, but take $500 divided by three years per month. Right now you're talking

00:17:06.100 like a few bucks a month and save a few months up for that if you don't have the money. But either

00:17:10.800 way, that's a way of doing it. So that's been one way that's really dramatically. So coaches or

00:17:15.320 experts are really paying for that. What are things if I recognize greatness? I think the second thing

00:17:20.200 for myself, and this is one is a very simple for everyone to do today is how much effort, not even 0.99

00:17:25.340 effort, effort, shit. How much time are you putting into it? So I've noticed a direct correlation 0.98

00:17:31.220 from the amount of time I work on something to the actual quality of the output. Right.

00:17:36.400 So I look at my articles that I've spent literally on okaydork.com. I like on marketing articles. I've

00:17:40.820 spent certain articles probably like 40 to 80 hours. Yeah. And not all of it does great. Don't get me

00:17:45.300 wrong. Like that's where you have to go get the word out. But most of them, the ones that don't spend a

00:17:49.000 lot of time on one out of 10 does really well. But the ones I spend a lot of time on almost,

00:17:53.700 you know, 50 to 100%, those are going to do great. Did I see one? I saw one just,

00:17:57.860 this must've been a couple of months ago, a Tony Robbins event that you walked out of.

00:18:01.740 Yeah. Yeah. So how much time did you spend on that? The rest of the weekend, right?

00:18:06.380 Dude, I spent, well, actually that's funny you say that. So I left the Tony Robbins event. I spent

00:18:10.080 hours in the morning, probably four hours writing the first like rough draft. Interesting. Then I worked

00:18:14.820 on it with a few people over the next three months. Really? Yeah. And the thing is people read it and be

00:18:20.120 like, oh, this is a good article. You know, Tony must've just, you know, pooped it out. He's a great writer. I'm

00:18:23.240 like, I am a shitty writer. Like I was an ESL. So why still do it? If you're not, if you're not 0.94

00:18:28.180 great at writing, why still do it? I'm not as much actually. So what I've been working on more this

00:18:33.160 year is like, what's my sweet spot? When am I stronger at? Talking to you gives me energy and

00:18:36.740 it gives me ideas and I get excited and motivated. And so the video and the podcast is where I spent

00:18:42.200 more of my time. And so I've been hiring people around me that let them spend their time in their

00:18:46.980 sweet spot. So that's kind of like an overall business life kind of concept. It's like,

00:18:51.420 and I hate the fucking cliche of it, but it's like, what are you really great at? Just do that 0.96

00:18:55.440 only. What do you suck at? Hire fucking someone else or don't do it. And so I found a writer who 1.00

00:19:01.240 I loved is writing. And I was like, Hey, can you list, take my podcast or my videos and write the

00:19:06.500 content and then I'll edit it. But he'll save me a lot of time and he's better at it than me. So why

00:19:11.200 should I try to do something like, it's like, we were like, Oh, I don't want to be weak at it. It's

00:19:15.120 like, yeah, well, I don't want to go to medical school to be a doctor. And so I kind of specialize in

00:19:20.420 what I'm great at. And that's helped me excel. Why did you say effort is shit?

00:19:25.340 Because I don't think you can pay bills with effort. And I think if you have effort with the 0.99

00:19:30.280 wrong blueprint, you're probably not going to get the right result. Right. Gary Halbert,

00:19:33.780 who's amazing. If you haven't read the boron letters, it's free. I love doing the, I guess,

00:19:37.520 because my Jewishness, the free stuff. But the boron letters are these free articles.

00:19:41.060 I'm glad you said it, man.

00:19:41.720 Yeah, my pleasure. I actually made a video about it. Anyways.

00:19:44.300 Um, did you really, are you kidding? Are you serious? I have a, the, about a Jew stuff video

00:19:49.840 I have. Well, so it's funny. I was thinking about this on my YouTube channel where if you're doing

00:19:54.860 stuff in the middle, like here's an interesting thing for everyone to think about. What's the

00:19:58.440 last meal you remember? And you probably remember maybe like for yourself, what's the last meal you

00:20:02.760 remember besides today? Well, barbecue last night with it being Memorial day. And then why was that

00:20:09.440 memorable? Probably because it was Memorial day. Yeah. So we tied to it that it stood out.

00:20:14.780 So in general, we don't remember most of our meals. Like if I asked, I had a month. Yeah. Yeah. If I

00:20:19.920 asked you had a month ago, you wouldn't remember, but I said, Hey, what's, you know, what's been a

00:20:22.500 meal you remember this year? You're like, Oh, Memorial day was great. Or like for me, like I got to eat

00:20:27.520 at this fancy restaurant, Alinea, which was on my bucket list. And that, and that was just magical for me.

00:20:32.140 And that was last year in June. And I don't even remember the exact day, but I, it's like, okay,

00:20:35.940 so why is that different than normal meals? And I think about it with my content and the things I'm

00:20:40.720 doing just even professionally in any aspect is that the stuff in the middle doesn't get remembered.

00:20:44.820 Right. But the things on the edge and the things where you either put in a lot of time or a lot

00:20:48.520 of quality or make it a little more unique towards yourself is what gets remembered. So I was thinking

00:20:53.040 about, you know, content and marketing and business. And I was like, you know, I am Jewish. And a lot of

00:20:57.500 people are like, man, how did Jews make so much money? And so I was like, what if I made some videos 0.53

00:21:01.580 and experimented with videos about like how Jews make money? Yeah. And I don't know. 0.79

00:21:06.480 Do they do well? I just filmed it last night. So we'll, we'll find out soon. My mom is fucking 1.00

00:21:11.800 hilarious. So she said, Oh, it's cause we have a, we're born with it. We're, it's genetic. 0.99

00:21:16.120 We have this. That's funny. My mom's like, there's a success gene in Jews. I was like,

00:21:20.900 mom, that's, that's not possible. But if it is interesting because, so I've got a financial

00:21:24.800 planning practice that I own and I used to work with a big insurance company out of New York

00:21:28.900 and the top producers, top producers, like, like multimillion dollars producers were always Jewish 0.91

00:21:35.860 out of New York or the surrounding areas, which was really interesting.

00:21:40.000 Oh, and why did you think that? So what, what did you think was different about the Jews and the

00:21:42.880 other ones? Uh, the only thing like from an outside perspective that I maybe thought of,

00:21:47.480 and I don't know if this is true or not, is the community that maybe that they're more tight knit or

00:21:52.880 that was the only thing that came to mind for me is that somehow they're tapped into a community.

00:21:58.100 Like, like I tend to be religious and, and within our community, anybody who is LDS, I'm Mormon.

00:22:04.880 Yeah.

00:22:05.280 We have a tighter knit community for the church. And I think that spills over to other areas of

00:22:09.520 life as well.

00:22:10.580 Okay. I can answer my story about business stuff and I can talk about the effort thing, but

00:22:14.160 why are all Mormons rich? Like people talk about the Jews being rich. Like I've never personally, 0.89

00:22:19.880 I've never met a poor Mormon.

00:22:21.060 You know why I have, I will tell you there are poor Mormons, but I think to your point, 1.00

00:22:27.340 and I think the reason you probably see that is because the culture and the value system

00:22:34.040 naturally produces success, success in business, success in relationships, success with health.

00:22:40.060 And not to say that everybody within the religion is perfect and has it all figured out, but the

00:22:45.680 principles that the gospel teaches, our gospel anyways, uh, translate perfectly to success in

00:22:50.860 other areas of life.

00:22:52.240 That's awesome. I mean, I think that's probably a commonality with Judaism and I think some Asian

00:22:56.840 cultures, it's not to say that there was like, we're better. I'm not saying maybe I hope each

00:23:01.800 person in the religion thinks the religion is great and I'm not a very religious person,

00:23:05.240 but it's like, there's certain elements that I think anyone can take away from that. Like,

00:23:09.380 okay. In Mormonism, like they have a community that where they want to help each other.

00:23:12.160 I don't know if Jews are as tight around that probably a little bit, but there's definitely 1.00

00:23:16.060 elements, education, community, you know, sacrifices, shit like that. Like we all have 0.97

00:23:20.400 in common that it's helped us succeed. But anyway, so I'm trying out some of the videos

00:23:24.280 with that. Cause yeah, I think to your point, I'm only really speaking to these people and

00:23:28.680 I'm kind of curious, like, all right, there's a, you know, you know, like 15 million Jews,

00:23:31.820 like maybe let me just speak to them for a bit and see how that works. And then if it doesn't

00:23:35.000 work fine, like I'll go back to my Christian friends. No, I'm joking. But it's just worth it. 1.00

00:23:40.080 It's just the experiments around that. And to your point about the effort thing,

00:23:44.640 I just think Gary Halbert, why I mentioned him is that he said a great line about it.

00:23:48.320 He said, you can paddle as fast as you want up the wrong river and never get where you want.

00:23:52.860 Yeah. But you can paddle whatever speed you want up the right river and you'll get to the

00:23:56.080 destination. And it's kind of like, I think about the difference between efficiency and

00:24:00.980 effectiveness. Like you can be very efficient paddling up the wrong river, but are you effective

00:24:05.460 getting to the actual tool? Yeah. Yeah. And so I think how quickly do you get out of the river?

00:24:09.860 That's the wrong one and get into a different river. Cause maybe you're just swimming against a

00:24:13.720 temporary current and you just need to overcome that. I think that's generally the biggest

00:24:19.100 differentiator I've known from the people I admire and successful people to my own definition

00:24:23.240 versus others is that everyone, including myself faces shitty days. Yeah. It's like impossible not to.

00:24:29.100 And it's the people that persevere over, you know, through it, not around it, but through it

00:24:34.900 that generally get the things they want. Yeah. That's just the definition of what I've seen.

00:24:39.340 Not even definition. That's just like the reality of what I've seen for myself is that

00:24:42.380 maybe a simple way anyone can think about it. It's doing the things when you don't want to do them

00:24:46.400 is why you're going to become successful. And I think someone said a better quote than that,

00:24:50.120 but it's basically what I've realized. Like the days I don't want to go to the gym are the days I go

00:24:53.800 the days I don't feel like doing some podcast editing or some marketing part or meetings or whatever it is.

00:24:58.640 It's the days I need to do them. That's where you earn it, right?

00:25:01.900 Yeah. You don't earn it when you're just like sitting at home. Like, well, I don't feel like

00:25:04.840 it today. And I think in general, what I've noticed for myself is every time I put in the work

00:25:09.860 and I put in the effort and I put in the sacrifice, that's when I'm most proud of what I accomplish.

00:25:14.040 I've never done something where I just, you know, I kind of half-assed it and it did really well.

00:25:17.600 And I'm like, man, I'm so proud of that. I did so good. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're generally proud

00:25:22.600 of when you work your ass off. Like if you try to do a race, like a 5k or whatever it is,

00:25:26.480 you're like, man, I trained, I worked hard. I finished it. I'm proud of myself.

00:25:29.520 But if you just go and like, you know, I did it and whatever, like I don't think most people

00:25:32.840 would feel that good about it. Gentlemen, just a quick pause to tell you about our exclusive

00:25:38.100 brotherhood, the iron council. This is a digital band of brothers in a way it's designed to give

00:25:43.640 you all the tools and resources you need to accomplish big things in your life. When I started

00:25:49.480 this journey of becoming a better man, nine years ago, I had no manual, no blueprint for the things

00:25:55.720 that I needed to do and the information that I needed to have. And in many ways, I'm still

00:26:00.560 searching for the best way to do things, but I can tell you that having the roadmap that we've laid

00:26:06.440 out inside of the iron council would have been a huge help. As I attempted to turn around my

00:26:11.800 relationship with my wife and children, my finances, my marriage, my health, and my life. So if you're

00:26:18.380 looking for that roadmap and you want to be around other men who are on the same journey as you,

00:26:23.100 I invite you to join us inside the iron council. You can find more at order of man.com slash iron

00:26:29.560 council. Now let's get back to that conversation with Noah. Okay. So I want to go back. Cause you

00:26:36.160 were talking about doing something different, standing out. We went off on a whole nother

00:26:39.600 tangent about religion, which was good. Cause it's something I don't talk a whole lot about.

00:26:44.120 What's the line between taking that hardline stance and just saying a bunch of shit that you might 0.99

00:26:51.080 not even really truly believe to rile people up. Cause I think there's people that believe that 0.99

00:26:55.360 that's the way you should approach it. Cause quite honestly, it could actually work.

00:27:00.500 Like if I posted a bunch of pictures of, of me and a bunch of babes and we're drinking beer and

00:27:06.100 shooting guns and it could actually work except for, I don't necessarily agree with that lifestyle.

00:27:11.220 A hundred percent.

00:27:12.540 Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that would fit LDS.

00:27:14.920 Right.

00:27:15.160 Maybe like, I don't know. Um, I was thinking maybe the original LDS stuff supposedly, um,

00:27:21.020 some history there for sure. Yeah. Uh, I, I think about that. So I'll tell you candidly,

00:27:26.460 like I think about some of these people like Tai Lopez. Yes. Uh, great point. Yep. And I,

00:27:30.720 I posted, I posted, I said, who do people like following? And they're like, Tai Lopez. And I'm

00:27:35.080 like, why? And I kept, I asked people why? And they said, well, cause he's got this crazy

00:27:39.140 lifestyle. He's got all these crazy bitches and he's doing cars and making money. And I 1.00

00:27:45.160 I think what I think, and it's appealing to me, not, not all that stuff, but it's appealing

00:27:49.760 the, that, that is what gets attention. Right. And so you have to deal with some reality of

00:27:54.240 what people want to hear, but I think you have to figure out how to do it in your own

00:27:57.580 true, I don't even people say true or authentic. You just have to be yourself in it and be true

00:28:00.860 to yourself. So I think it's kind of like, what are the elements of why that works and how

00:28:05.540 do you do it in a way that works for you? But for me, not, but, and for me, it's saying,

00:28:10.620 well, who do I really want to be in the future? Who is living the life or,

00:28:15.160 acting in the way, you know, you guys have Christ some, and as well, you, I'm sure you

00:28:19.100 have business people. So I think about Jeff Bezos personally. Uh, I don't know him. I

00:28:23.360 don't text him at all. Not yet. Maybe we Snapchat each other, but I don't see him flaunting women

00:28:28.640 or flaunting money or, you know, buying houses and having to show off him on Instagram with

00:28:33.660 a bunch of filters. I see him working and making amazing things that are helping a lot of people.

00:28:38.140 And he seems really excited about it. Yeah. And subsequently people want to know more

00:28:42.020 about what he is and what he's doing. And, and that's what I admire. And so I have to

00:28:45.840 come back and remind myself, like, you know, you have your, we all have our own flavor of

00:28:49.500 a dish. We're all our own unique dish. You know, I think in terms of where I want my dish

00:28:54.520 to go, it's like, it's more on that path versus the people who I think are really rich in life.

00:28:59.580 They don't show off their money. They don't like the rich ones don't have to prove that

00:29:05.080 they're rich. And I think when you work backwards from where you want to be, it makes it kind of

00:29:10.260 easier to say, well, do I want to do that stuff? Not really. That's not really who I am or who I

00:29:15.280 want to be. And so it makes it a little easier to make those decisions. It's really interesting

00:29:19.280 because we live in it. We live in a weird position where you and I are out to get attention,

00:29:26.120 quite honestly. Right. And yet there's this balance with, I don't need attention. I just

00:29:32.300 want to focus on the things that I want, like being able to swim in the pool with my kids or

00:29:37.220 coach their teams where I necessarily wouldn't get that attention. Although on this other side,

00:29:42.200 I'm trying to get attention. That's a weird place to be for sure.

00:29:46.360 Well, so the two things I think about that is that like, what's I think about purpose and purpose is

00:29:50.880 like one of these like quarter life crisis things. I think we're around the same age, but purpose is

00:29:54.140 like, oh, what's my purpose? It's like, I'm not going to go into that because that could take a

00:29:57.480 long time. Yeah. But I think when you're trying to get attention in general, like creating shows or

00:30:01.200 creating products, whatever it is, my main concern lately and my main thought around it, excuse me,

00:30:06.600 is where's the alignment around what you're doing? Meaning, so if you're trying to get a bunch of

00:30:11.000 attention, what, why? Yeah. What's the point of it? Yeah. A lot of them probably tie in some of

00:30:15.460 these guys had really shitty high schools. They were probably made fun of. And now it's like, it's, 0.95

00:30:19.040 it's redemption. It's like, oh, well, finally I can prove that I have validation now, right? Yeah. And there's

00:30:24.060 a lot of that. I mean, my parents love me. I have a Jewish mother, a lot of guilt. It was great.

00:30:28.120 You know, I love, I mean, I love my parents in high school. I wasn't the coolest. I wasn't the

00:30:31.500 dorkiest at a good high school experience, a little emo, you know, just standard high school stuff.

00:30:35.020 Yeah. Smoke some cigarettes, the usual shit. And you know, I don't feel the need about that, 1.00

00:30:39.680 but I definitely wonder about the attention thing. So that, that's kind of the, the main part I think

00:30:44.100 about, which is just like, how does this help my main purpose? So my purpose is growing Sumo.

00:30:48.660 It's like, we have two products. One, we promote other products. The other one,

00:30:51.400 we give people the tools to promote themselves. And so I have to remind myself, all right, let

00:30:55.440 this attention is to really help that. And when I finally had clarity around that two weeks ago,

00:30:59.840 cause I just kind of think, I'm like, why the fuck do I care if I get more views? Right. Like

00:31:03.200 a thousand people see something versus two, that who fucking cares? Right. I was like, oh, well, 0.99

00:31:06.680 earlier about the, the articles on the site. It's like, I don't, I don't know. Like,

00:31:10.360 what does it matter? 200 versus 2000, right? Exactly. But if it aligns up to what your actually goal

00:31:15.220 is, the second thing I would say, man, is, uh, and this is maybe for myself,

00:31:18.620 is that see how it is. So let's say that you want to try to like fake that kind of life and

00:31:24.480 you want to get a lot of attention. Try it out. Go like go a week where you go crazy and you're

00:31:29.480 like, all right, I'm going to post pictures in cars. I'm gonna do all this fake shit. And maybe 1.00

00:31:33.280 it's not real. Maybe it is real and see how it goes for you. And then you can make that decision

00:31:37.140 whether that's something you want to continue or not. That's yeah. That's talk about experimentation,

00:31:40.960 right? Well, I think the one 80 strategy is an interesting way to, I kind of call it the test

00:31:45.800 shit out strategy, uh, or one 80 strategy is like go the complete opposite. Try it the fuck out 0.99

00:31:50.820 and see how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. I think you can do it on smaller increments. So what I've tried to

00:31:56.220 do now is instead of buying something, that's a house or a car, can I rent it for a week? Can I

00:32:00.660 Airbnb it? Can I use tarot.com? Can I borrow it from a friend? Can I go on some dates instead of just

00:32:05.920 getting married right away? And then you're like, actually, no, I fucking love attention. Can I take one of 0.98

00:32:10.480 my, one of my siblings kids for the weekend and see if I really want kids of my own? Right.

00:32:14.840 I actually did that and it sucks. Dude, you guys, it's tough to be a parent, man. Much respect to 0.91

00:32:21.340 them. No, I don't know. Like, you know, maybe the thing is the part three, which I don't know. I'm

00:32:28.100 curious for yourself as well as like, if you didn't have to live with, if you could live without

00:32:31.900 apologies, like if you could live this life where there's not apologizing for saying, Hey, you know

00:32:37.080 what? I fucking don't like these people. And Tai Lopez, like, I think he sells snake oil and you 0.99

00:32:41.580 say that kind of shit and you're just like, yo, this is who the fuck I am. Some people are going 1.00

00:32:44.580 to like it. Some people are not. And I think we have created this culture of over self-deprecation

00:32:50.060 and over hypersensitivity to free speech, to like things that we want to say. And it kind of moves

00:32:56.300 everyone to the middle society. And I would say ultimately society wants us all to be in the 0.63

00:33:00.940 middle. It's the safest. Society wants us to stay in line. Of course. I think if we can start all

00:33:05.560 thinking about how do we just not fucking apologize for who we want to be and including 0.92

00:33:08.800 myself, I still get self-conscious about stuff. You know, the more that we can just keep not 0.70

00:33:12.780 apologizing, it doesn't mean we go be rude, like go out there and be like, yeah, fuck this person 1.00

00:33:16.040 and fuck this. Like, I'm not trying to, uh, you know, not about the negativity, but just not 0.99

00:33:20.460 apologizing for who you really want to be yourself. Yeah. Uh, I think it would create a really good

00:33:24.060 society and really great discussion and ideas and products and things like that. It's so ingrained

00:33:28.660 in us to be the same as everybody else, whether that's through elementary school. I remember when I joined

00:33:32.600 the military, uh, I had some, some section chiefs and some, some sergeants telling me what I needed

00:33:37.740 to do as I went into basic training and there at the end of the day, their advice was blend in,

00:33:43.640 don't get noticed. And it served me very well in the military. But then I've been thinking about it.

00:33:48.960 I'm like, man, that's like a horrible way to live in civilian life. Like you want to fit in,

00:33:55.200 you want to, and I know why the military would teach that doctrine, but when it comes to your

00:33:59.880 civilian life and you wanting to thrive in your marriage or your business or any element of life,

00:34:04.540 the last thing that you want to do is fit in with everybody else.

00:34:08.780 How have you, how, how do you think the military has affected you running your company?

00:34:12.480 Discipline, hands down discipline. Really? Well, let me back, not back up, but let me add

00:34:17.040 something else to that. It's discipline and playing for keeps. Like I spent, I spent, uh, 2005 and a lot

00:34:23.300 of 2006 in Iraq and all the decisions that I made and all my training and everything else up to that

00:34:28.700 point literally spelled the difference between life and death for me or, or the guys within our

00:34:33.600 unit. And so I see a lot of people taking life, not serious enough. And not that you can't have

00:34:40.660 fun or enjoy it. That's not what I'm talking about. But what I'm saying is like, people aren't serious

00:34:45.120 about their business. They're not serious about the relationship with their kids. They're not serious

00:34:50.260 about their marriage. And so they make all these decisions, whether that's stepping out on their wife

00:34:54.340 or deciding they don't want to work one day. And they make these decisions. Like you're not playing

00:34:59.880 for life and death. You're not playing for keeps. And in my perspective, we are like everything that

00:35:04.800 I do on a daily basis has a, an impact on the way the rest of my life. And even since we're talking

00:35:12.300 about religion, afterlife is going to be as well. So I think it's really important that we play for

00:35:17.460 keeps and that we understand and recognize that the game you're playing right now is serious business

00:35:21.500 and treat it that way. Dude, I love that. So you, you felt like that, that was a big message

00:35:26.980 that you didn't have as much before the military. You know, I don't know if I didn't have it, but it

00:35:31.640 certainly wasn't ingrained in me because I wasn't fighting for life and death. Right. And especially

00:35:35.780 as a child, you know, I joined the military when I was 18 years old as a child, like what responsibilities

00:35:40.160 do you have? You know, my kids need to walk the dog. They need to do some dishes. They need to scoop

00:35:43.900 the poop out of the yard, but like they don't really have any responsibilities. So anything that they do up to

00:35:49.920 this point isn't, there's no really ramifications or repercussions of their negative choices. And

00:35:55.340 we try to teach them that, but until you're in an experience where shit literally hits the fan and 0.72

00:36:00.100 somebody could die because of the inability that you have to make the correct decision or the lack

00:36:07.280 of training that you've lived up to this point, it's going to spell that difference. It's going to

00:36:11.440 be hard for you to recognize how serious this game actually is. How was that actually integrating

00:36:16.580 back into society? That was hard, really hard because at the end of the day, like, what are

00:36:21.340 you drinking right now? Uh, this, this one? Yeah. Oh no, the other one. This one? That one. Or this

00:36:28.320 one? The green one or the blue one? No, the one in your left hand there. Oh, it was, it was a cold

00:36:33.600 brew coffee with coconut, unflavored coconut vanilla milk. Okay. So check this out. So this is what was so

00:36:40.880 hard is you get back from Iraq and you see people and their biggest choices in life are like, am I

00:36:47.620 going to use vanilla bean or am I going to use some other flavor in my Frappuccino? And so like, for me,

00:36:53.480 I was like, what the hell? Like, why are people worried about this trivial nonsense? And so it was 0.96

00:36:58.120 very, cause I'm literally fighting for life and death. I'm trying to keep other people alive. Like

00:37:02.520 we're doing serious business and I'm back here and people are bickering and worrying about the dumbest 1.00

00:37:07.740 shit that has no basis in reality. And so it was very difficult for me to integrate back in. 0.99

00:37:13.100 And I think that's where a lot of these veterans have a hard time is coming back and they're like,

00:37:16.940 I'm trying to stay alive. I'm trying to keep people alive. I'm trying to do my job. I'm trying

00:37:20.980 to protect this nation. I'm trying to serve honorably. And now I have to come back and worry

00:37:24.680 about, you know, what shirt to wear, for example. And it just seems really, really trivial and it's

00:37:30.380 hard to get over. Dude, that is such a great message. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's a great

00:37:36.420 message. Sometimes we, we, I think we're sweating all this stuff. Oh, it's like, is that really the

00:37:41.380 most important thing? Exactly. Exactly. That's a great point. Cause I think a lot of times what

00:37:45.220 ends up happening is we get so caught up in things that don't really matter. And that might even be a

00:37:50.260 business decision. Like, Oh, should I do this strategy or should I do this Facebook ad or that?

00:37:54.880 I'm like, just do something. Like, I don't, I don't care which one you pick, just pick one and go.

00:38:01.800 And then you can adjust and adapt along the way. But people just get so bogged down in the stuff

00:38:07.420 that just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I completely agree, man. That's,

00:38:11.260 it's hard. It's like, well, what's really important? It's, and then you have to figure

00:38:14.740 that out for yourself. You have to take that time to be like, well, my family's important. My

00:38:17.560 business is important. And in my business, what's even, what are the things I want to spend my time

00:38:21.020 on and what do I not? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm not going to go ahead. Please. No,

00:38:25.380 no, please keep going to say you talked about, I think you've used the term integration. Is that right?

00:38:29.360 Like, did you say integrate where you're trying to integrate the things that you're doing in life?

00:38:33.080 I can't remember the exact term you used. Uh, congruency as well. Yeah. We strive for too.

00:38:37.600 It's like, if you can be congruent in who you are at work and who you are at home and who you are at

00:38:41.460 the office and who you are in the bedroom and who you are when you're showing up to your coaches to

00:38:46.020 coach your kids' games, I think that's where you're going to find the most happiness. And I think

00:38:49.300 that's what you were alluding to earlier is, is being the same person, whether you're in business or

00:38:53.640 your relationship or the community, that's certainly where I found fulfillment in my life.

00:38:57.720 Yeah. Congruity. Congruity. That word. Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's important. I think what the

00:39:06.100 story, not I think the story you said earlier really resonates with me where I fucking hate when 0.93

00:39:09.740 someone doesn't like their job. Like that truly bothers me because it's very controllable. And I

00:39:14.480 know there's people that are like, man, I'm stuck at Walmart. I, you know, I worked at Office Max.

00:39:18.440 I worked at Macy's. I've worked retail and I've worked not glamorous jobs a lot of years. And that's

00:39:23.120 part, you know, that's part of the grind, but everyone has a ability to take control of their life.

00:39:26.700 And I like when I'm working on things I'm excited about and I have integration and congruity

00:39:32.000 across my personal and my professional life. I think everyone should. Yeah. For me,

00:39:35.980 I know it comes from my mom hating her work as a nurse so much. I've never heard anyone complain 0.55

00:39:39.980 so much. Uh, and I love my mom, but it's like, I was like, I don't want, it's like you live one

00:39:43.580 life. Why not at least do the things you want to do or at least do your best to try to get there.

00:39:48.120 I think so many people are worried about, well, how do I make this work? Especially those that have

00:39:52.080 other responsibility, like a family or something like that, where they're like, I need to make

00:39:55.740 this work. I have to, I have to sacrifice. Right. And that's the big word. I have to sacrifice my

00:39:59.840 own wellbeing for my families. And what's really interesting is I hear these guys and they almost

00:40:04.200 assume in a way that these are mutually exclusive. Like your family can't be happy without you being

00:40:10.380 miserable. Like that's, what's taught. I think that's what a lot of people think is a lot of men, 0.98

00:40:15.820 especially it's like, you have to be miserable. You have to grind, you have to put in the work.

00:40:19.520 And there's times where you're going to have to do that and sacrifice, but you don't have to be

00:40:23.460 miserable just so your family can be satisfied or fulfilled or have what they need. There's a way

00:40:27.880 to find both. And I think that's the, that's the point of life. Find both.

00:40:32.660 I read this book recently and it hasn't gotten a lot of attention. It's a friend's, a friend helped

00:40:36.780 write the book. It's called I got there. And it's a, this guy, JT McCormick, and it's just basically

00:40:42.440 how he grew up like straight hood, no money, abusive. Dad was gone. Mom was in and out. And you know,

00:40:49.380 he got there and it's just great little, it's a great quick read about, you know, if you want

00:40:53.700 something like, are you putting in the work? Yeah. Maybe that's like, that's the overall

00:40:57.220 message for this. It's one, stop apologizing for being yourself and go put in the work.

00:41:01.800 Yeah. Yeah. Love it. All right, man. We got to wind this down. So yeah, dude. Otherwise I'm

00:41:06.960 going to probably have to come over for dinner. Well, you can do that too. Let's do it. We'll talk

00:41:10.040 about Jewish and Mormonism and we'll talk about the fun stuff, man.

00:41:14.180 Where are you guys based? Southern Utah.

00:41:15.560 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. How about you?

00:41:18.100 Austin, Texas. Okay. Man, I was out there two months ago. It's awesome. I was out to

00:41:23.860 Lake Travis near the Lake Travis area. Yeah. Man, it's beautiful out there.

00:41:28.320 The middle of America is like, you know, it's funny cause I'm from the West coast. I'm from,

00:41:31.440 you know, I worked at these high tech companies. I'm not going to still say high tech anymore.

00:41:34.800 No, I just, I'm like, I work on software programs with CD-ROMs.

00:41:39.560 Puppy discs. Uh, but you know, America is in the middle. Yeah. Like 10% is on the outside,

00:41:47.980 20% the outside. Like, and I think if you're trying to be successful in business, to me,

00:41:51.800 I've noticed that like, man, if you can get Utah and Texans and people buying from these kinds of

00:41:56.320 places, like you're doing well. Yeah, for sure. I think a lot of people kind of forget about that.

00:42:00.620 Yeah, it is. They're not these populated areas, but there's a large bulk of actually,

00:42:03.840 I think the American spirit in the middle of the country for sure. So

00:42:06.700 right on, man. All right. So tell everybody how they can connect with you. I know we didn't even

00:42:11.520 like really get into like specifically what you do, but I know I use your tools in the past and

00:42:16.740 guys, like if you're listening to this podcast or whatever it ends up being, however, we're going

00:42:20.780 to put this out in the world. Um, I can tell you, you know, I've, I've used Noah's programs and apps

00:42:26.220 and they've helped me grow this to where it is today. So I got to tell you, I appreciate you guys

00:42:30.020 connect with you. Thanks man. Only the guys. Cause we only have guys listening. That's right.

00:42:34.080 Or if there's women listening, then you can use them too, I guess. Yeah. Or tell your husband to

00:42:39.620 use them. Women are a lot of times better than men in a lot of things. I'm like making babies 1.00

00:42:43.580 their way. There's a reason God gave them the responsibility. I truly, I'm like, we would

00:42:47.700 totally fuck that one up. We'd be like, Oh, you know, playing with our stomachs. I'd be like 0.85

00:42:50.640 playing drums on yours too long. And I fucked that up. Anyways, if the men listening to this only knew 0.92

00:42:56.680 how many decisions order of man go through my wife, they would, might be disappointed 1.00

00:43:02.680 in me. Well, I think that that's actually probably how it is too. It's given, it's also given props

00:43:07.680 to the, you know, supportive people in our lives. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Uh, yeah. The

00:43:11.340 short, uh, I help run two companies. If you're looking for products to grow your business app,

00:43:15.360 sumo.com it's a group on for geeks. And then we, all the tools we use to grow app sumo, uh, are

00:43:20.960 now sumo.com. So it's email free tools to grow your email list. And then I have, if people want

00:43:26.060 to hear more of my voice, like my nasally Jew voice, which I've actually kind of like it.

00:43:30.260 I kind of like my voice. It's growing on me. Thanks dude. Uh, I don't know when we started,

00:43:34.480 I'm like, I don't know, but now I feel pretty good. Oh man, I could do a whole episode to you

00:43:38.020 talking to you about, uh, you know, the real, the lessons learned about starting a podcast.

00:43:41.580 But yeah, so I know a Kagan presents a podcast and no Kagan on YouTube or two things I've been 0.95

00:43:45.960 experimenting, chatting with people like yourself and shit. Like after this conversation, I'm like, 0.86

00:43:49.500 start thinking about different stories and then put that kind of stuff out there.

00:43:52.540 Right on, man. I'll link it all up so the guys can check it out, but guys go check out his work.

00:43:56.060 You will not be disappointed. Thank you very much. It was fun.

00:44:00.020 There it is guys. You got to be a fly on the wall with my friend, Noah Kagan and I talking about

00:44:04.060 marketing yourself a bit more effectively. Do yourself a favor though. Go follow him,

00:44:08.240 learn everything that you can from him. You will be glad that you did. And in the meantime,

00:44:12.580 make sure you do two things right now. First, join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups

00:44:18.340 slash order of man. And then second, make sure you take a look at our exclusive brotherhood,

00:44:22.740 the iron council, whether you join or not is up to you, but I'd have you,

00:44:26.060 at least take a look at it, learn more about what we're up to and find out what the other 320 men

00:44:31.140 inside of the iron council and that brotherhood are up to and how they're improving their lives on a

00:44:36.200 large scale. Also guys, keep an eye out for future order man meetups, some very cool new

00:44:41.480 resources that are going to be available in the next few weeks. And the last thing I asked this

00:44:46.160 last week as well, if you would, please take a minute and leave us an iTunes rating and review.

00:44:51.760 We read all of those. And of course they go a long way in growing and spreading the message

00:44:56.640 of the order of men. I will look forward to talking with you on Friday for our Friday field

00:45:01.140 notes, but until then take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening

00:45:06.700 to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you

00:45:11.720 were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - August 22, 2017

127： How to Market Yourself ｜ Noah Kagan

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