128： Style as a Tool to Have More and Be More ｜ Ryan Magin
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Summary
Ryan McGinn joins me today to talk about the role style plays in masculinity, why men are afraid to elevate their style, something he calls The Halo Effect, and how to use your style to have more and be more.
Transcript
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So many men are afraid to talk about style. In my experience, they believe that it's just not
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that important when it comes to being a man or they don't want to be viewed as anything less
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than manly. I get it. I used to be the same way. That was until I understood the power of dressing
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well and leveling up my presence. Dressing well isn't about a well-tailored suit or fancy shoes
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or overpriced jeans. It's about being deliberate and intentional about sharing with the world who
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you really are. My friend Ryan McGinn joins me today to talk about what role style plays in
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masculinity, why men are afraid to elevate their style, something he calls enclothed cognition and
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the halo effect and how to use your style to have more and be more. You're a man of action. You live
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life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down,
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you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient,
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strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day
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and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler and I am the host and founder of this
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podcast, The Order of Man. I'm glad that you're tuning in from wherever you are and regardless
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of how long you've been tuning into us, what this movement, and it is a movement, has grown to over
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the past couple of years has been an incredible ride for me. Fortunately, we have the opportunity
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to interview some amazing men from every area or every facet of life. You're going to hear me
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interview these guys. Some of them you've heard of, some of you haven't, but either way, you have
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my commitment to give you the very best each of us have to offer so that you can level up your life.
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That is my goal. Guys, before we get started today, I just want to give you three quick resources.
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The first is you can head to orderofman.com slash 128 as an episode 128 for the show notes.
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You can also join us in our Facebook group. I know a lot of you are there because we have
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nearly 40,000 men in that Facebook group now. And then the third and probably the most important
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resource that I want to give you is our exclusive brotherhood. You can learn more about what we're
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up to there at orderofman.com slash iron council. Again, those are just three resources that you can
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use to further the conversation that we're having here on this podcast. Guys, my guest today is my
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good friend, Ryan McGinn. I met Ryan roughly three years ago as I was launching Order of Man at the
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StyleCon conference. I will admit I'm not one who is very good when it comes to what I wear and how I
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look, but I've learned a ton from Ryan about the way that you look has proven not only to increase
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confidence in yourself, but confidence from other people as well. So Ryan dresses well. He looks good.
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His game is on point, although I will say, and he'll be the first to admit that our styles are
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very, very different, but that's the point that he makes today is that in order to look and feel
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good, you have to find a style that works for you. And that is exactly what I've seen him do over the
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past three years for himself. As I've watched what he's done in his own life and his business and for
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his clients, guys, take notes, listen to this with an open mind and learn how to use your style
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as another tool to get exactly what you want. Ryan, what's up, brother? Glad you are on the show
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today. How's it going, Ryan? I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, this has been a long time in
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the works. I know I've been stringing you along. It's more my fault than it is yours, but either
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way, I'm glad you're here, brother. No worries, man. You got a big platform going on. I'm just happy
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to be able to bring my message to your people. So if I would have had to wait another month,
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I would have been cool with it. You know, I think this is an important topic. It's actually probably one
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that frankly, I don't address a whole lot just because it's not necessarily in my wheelhouse,
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which is why it's good to have experts like you come on the show. And what's really interesting
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is when we start talking about style and masculinity, it's very polarizing. I've noticed like
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either guys are like, yeah, you have to worry about the way that you look and the way that
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you dress and your appearance, or they're like, no, that's stupid. Real men don't worry about that
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stuff. Why the polarity do you think? I'm a member of me in your group and I've been in your group
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since for probably since close to the star. And like, I, and I'm one of the ones that pops in there and
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like, I like to stir the pot a little. You like to rile up my audience, man. And I got to tell you,
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I, I, I kind of, I appreciate that. Although it adds, adds to my plate at times.
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Oh, I will, I will keep it at bay. No, it's good. It's good. It is good to have these types
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of discussions though. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like, I mean, especially seeing it in your group
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and I mean, I used to think that too, like there's what, for whatever reason, I don't know,
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there's like this, this shift that happened where it's like all of a sudden, like guys,
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they shouldn't care how they dress or they shouldn't care what people think about how they dress
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because somehow in some way that deflates their masculinity and makes them less of a man
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because they care about their appearance. And I used to be one of those guys, like literally I
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would, I would like, I would wear the worst type of stuff. I mean, and I grew up kind of with that
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F you mindset where I was like, you know, I had, I was been an entrepreneur for like 10 years now.
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I've, I used to be a professional BMX racer. I had that athlete mentality and pretty much, I mean,
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you know, when you're basing it down to like the primal instincts of like sex, money, power,
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like I was an athlete, so I had no problem getting girls. So I could pretty much could wear what I wanted.
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I was an entrepreneur, so I made my own schedule and that was kind of cool to girls. And it was
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like, I had this, you know, as building this, I had this following when I went to like my specific
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athlete, athletic events. So like, I felt like I was on top of the world and I'm relating this,
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like talking about this because when I had that mindset, like a lot of things weren't in line with
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what I wanted. Like I had this envisioned for myself, not necessarily being an athlete forever
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and being a paid bike racer because they don't really get paid that much. So I was like,
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I had these aspirations to be like, you know, have my own business and do that.
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And once I kind of discovered my footing a little bit online, how I projected myself with online was
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exactly how I was living a real life. And I say that because I was wearing like cutoff shorts.
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I was wearing like sleeveless t-shirts. I was dying like stripes in my hair because I wanted to have
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that, you know, F you the world. Like I can, I met a girl who I'm currently, I now have my,
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you know, I have almost a two year old daughter with, we had gotten together and,
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you know, she kind of liked that bad boy image. So like, yes, it did work at attracting girls,
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the kind of fuck you vibe. I don't care. But what happened was we got together and my priorities
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started changing and her priorities were changing. She was going on like this career path and she was
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going to like really about to make a hefty six figure salary, which I mean, by no means is,
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is awesome. You know, like, and I was this guy, like I wasn't making that online and I was doing
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some stuff. I was doing some SEO and some things. I mean, that's the whole conversation for another
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call what I was doing, but it was like some black hat, like kind of like, you know, unethical stuff
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I was doing online to make a lot of money. And then I had this persona that like F you, I didn't care
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on the outside. And then she kind of liked that a little bit. But when she started really needing
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me to kind of step up and be a man and go to these networking events and actually be a sidekick
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or a teammate to her where like I could make her look better, I failed miserably. We ended up
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breaking up. And that started onto this journey for me where I was just like, why did I let my
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image? And at first I was like, you know, forget you, you know, you want to date these guys that
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wear suits, like the same type of mentality that I see in your group and these guys having that,
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you know, that like, why should I care about how I dress? What, you know, the world's judgmental,
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you know, fuck them. I don't need that. And it's, and I had that mentality. And then one day,
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you know, like you talked about it in some of your stories, like you have that like defining
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moment where you're like, I am controlled with myself right now. And how I look, I'm like staring
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in the mirror. I'm like, why I look like a guy who's going to go rob a convenience store. And I'm,
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and I'm trying to, and I'm trying to like, you know, be a teammate to a girl that is, that is
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literally, you know, just signed a contract for a salary and is making like $130,000 a year. And
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she's getting invited to these events where these got these doctors and high end lawyers,
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and they're making over, you know, six figures per year. And I'm this dude who's like,
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like, I'm supposed to not care. And like, you're supposed to accept me for who I am.
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And once I realized that it was like a mental shift and I just got into style and I was like,
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and I did it all out of spite to, for, you know, to start where I was like, you know what,
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I'm just going to be the best dressed dude everywhere I go to show her that I'm better
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than everybody. So it was like totally an ego thing to start. But once I started realizing how
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people were treating me, I was like, holy crap. It's like, this is like the Holy grail.
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Like, I've never experienced that. Like I would go into a restaurant that had like a weight and I
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would just get pushed to the front because they thought I was important. Or I would go to a bar
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and like this, now mind you, I was single at this time because I had gotten dumped for my image and
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I was going out a lot and, you know, cause I was technically drowning myself in my sorrows,
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but I was going out as this well-dressed guy to all these same bars. Okay. And now me and my
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girlfriend's name is Kristen and you've, you actually met her. But we ended up going out to all these
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different bars and all these bars and people that work there, they knew that we were together and
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we had recently broken up. We live in small towns. Like when, when, when like a couple breaks up to
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spend together a while, it's like, I'm sure, you know, it's like, it just rumors. It's like big
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news. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, that happened and I'm going out to these bars, but the
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bartenders and all the people that had previously seen me and her together were now treating me
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completely different. They were treating me with like a lot more respect and like the same,
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and girls that like totally knew that I was like damaged goods, like just broken up. Like they
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were hitting on me because they, this new image and this new persona and, you know, just cool things
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started happening. And I started realizing like, wow, if I wear this, I can get this reaction.
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And then I started thinking, well, how do I, you know, in a business situation, like if I'm,
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I'm an entrepreneur and I want to get somebody to work with me in my company, or I want to get,
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you know, maybe an investor. I know exactly how to dress so I can, I can show trust. I can show that I'm
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different. I can show that I'm well-rounded guy just by how I'm wearing before I even meet somebody.
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And I started using that to my advantage. And since then now, like even my business online,
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which is handsome guy secrets has grown from zero to, you know, I mean, 7,000 Facebook followers,
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25,000 YouTube subscribers, like a million views a month, like all these good things started happening
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because I started projecting to the world, like how I thought the world should see me.
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And once I've discovered that I was like, dude, this is like, you know, now I think about everything
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in the morning. What shoes am I wearing today? If I buy those shoes, like I was at the store the
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other day and I was like, I'm going to buy a pair of Vans because I grew up wearing Vans.
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I went in the store and I was like, I can't wear these. These, these don't say a successful
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entrepreneur who is making a million dollars a year. Like, you know, and I didn't buy them or like,
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I'm like, I can't push my daughter in a stroller wearing Vans. I look like a child. Like,
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so with all these things, like they, now they matter to me where it's like, they did it. And so when I read
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stuff in your group and I talk to guys, like, I'm not going to do that. It's like, dude,
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you're just doing yourself a disservice. You're, you're already setting yourself up for a
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disadvantage at life by not caring how you look because, and you talk about a lot, it doesn't
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take much to step up. Okay. Like to be different than everybody else is like, to like, to go above
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that level of mediocrity we see in society right now. All it takes is a little bit of ambition and
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like a cool and like a decent amount of style. Right. And any, in any room you walk into, you're going to
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win. And so once I realized that, and then obviously guys started, you know, I started talking about
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that online, more or less, I started talking about how easy it was to attract specific women,
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you know, with certain styles, but that was, it, it, it like clicked. And so I see that. And I'm
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like, I, every time I see like these comments in your group about how you shouldn't care, it's like,
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dude, like stop having that small mindset where you're letting that stand in the way of, of you
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succeeding at life because, but you know, what's interesting. I got to stop you right here because
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I want to address something you just mentioned. What's really fascinating about that is even when
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guys say they don't care in a way, you are being intentional. Still, you are being deliberate.
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You're trying to put on the persona that you don't care when in all reality you do. And you said it
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perfectly like the F you mentality. And that's a huge trend in society. I see it everywhere. I don't
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care what anybody thinks, but just because you say that probably indicates that you actually do.
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So why not just be a little bit more intentional about it and pretend like you actually care.
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And, and I think you can go a long ways. Yeah, exactly. And it's cause you're actually
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defining yourself with the F you mentality. So you, you want to care to that group and you want
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all those people to rally at your behalf. Like, Oh, I liked that. This guy doesn't care. It's like,
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well, truth is you cannot care, but society cares. Okay. That your employer cares, you know,
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your social media account, it cares. It's judging you every day of all the pictures you put up where
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you're doing stupid shit, wearing stupid clothes. Like that shit ain't going away.
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So like, I started really thinking about life towards that. And, you know, fast forward,
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you know, two years, I mean, me and my girl, we got back together and it, you know, we worked
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through a lot of our issues. And one of the biggest issues was me. Like I was so attached to
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that F you mindset. And I thought that that defined me. And I was like, Oh, I'm so glad I shed that
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skin. I guess you could say, because it's like, now it's like, I do know that people are judging
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that I do know that, you know, how I'm wearing and how I'm acting is a hundred percent representative
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of like my success. And like, it's like, I'm a mirror to what I want. So it's like,
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if I'm not acting like a guy who should be making a million dollars and I probably will never make a
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million dollars. So what's your thought then when it comes to, you know, the phrase you hear is like,
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fake it till you make it, which is, which in a way sounds a little bit like that's what you did is,
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Hey, I'm going to try to up my level up, up my style game, for example. And then in turn,
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it sounds like you changed a lot of your mindset and philosophy about life because of that shift.
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Yeah. I used to be, and I guess if you have ambitions and goals and like, or you're an
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entrepreneur and you're trying to like level up your life in some way, whatever that may be,
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whether that be getting a promotion or start a business, like you, I do believe there's like a,
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it's like a give and take. You do have to fake some stuff. You do have to kind of lie to yourself
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with your mindset. And since I've been studying fashion and I'm big on like the psychological
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aspects of fashion, I get all geeked out. I figured out a term. It was actually on a TV
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show called bull. It was on CBS. I believe it's like free online. Great show. The guy's a trial
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scientist. He basically manipulates the jury to get outcomes that he wants. And he always works
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with innocent people who are getting the shafts. Like they're about to get like their entire lives
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destroyed. So most of them are all pro bono. But the first thing they do is they give the person
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a makeover and it's not necessarily a, let's put this guy in a suit and stand there like he's the
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shit. They break down the personalities and it's like, okay, well, what outcome are we trying to
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have? And they, they dropped the term that like really resonated with me. It was called
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enclosed cognition. And basically what it means is that when people put on a, a white coat,
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like a doctor's coat, people automatically assume you're smarter. People automatically assume you're
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intelligent and you make better decisions. And they've done studies in this and like, you know,
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I don't know how they do it like in labs and stuff, but it seems kind of funny, but they've done
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studies and tests where they, where they just took somebody and they put them in a white doctor's lab
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coat over the top of whatever they were wearing. And they registered like their cognitive thinking
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and they actually thought smarter. The guys in the lab coat thought smarter is what you're saying.
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In the lab. Interesting. Okay. And then they also did a test where they portrayed,
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they put a lab coat on a person and put them in the front of like on a camera and the audience
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responded better to what they were saying, which is why, for example, you see supplement ads and things
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of that nature. Like they just put an actor in a white coat and you automatically assume he's a
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doctor, right? He's not a doctor. He's an actor wearing a white coat, but you don't,
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your brain doesn't think that. So that's like in close cognition in a nutshell. But what I started
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thinking about is like, okay, what if like everything you wear completely dictates how you
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think? Like if you're dressing like a slob, then you're going to think like a slob. I don't know.
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I kind of got off on a rant there. Um, no, it makes sense because I had a baseball coach in high
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school. One of the things that he would always say is if you look good, you play good. And so we
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always had every single year we had to buy our own uniforms because they were the newest top of the
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line uniforms because his philosophy was, if you look good, you're going to play to some degree to
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that level. But you also talk about you being an athlete. Uh, I know you're into cycling as well.
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Like every single sport, every single tribe, every single group or society has in a way a uniform,
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even the athlete and the cycling and the, and with what you're doing now, even order of man,
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you could almost see that as well. It's pretty fascinating to me. Yeah. And I mean, to, to
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circle back to like fake it till you make it, I think you do have to fake something to what?
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Cause if you don't have that mindset or that look from the start, yeah, you got to kind of like,
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you got to trick yourself into, into like becoming that person that you want to become. It's like
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reading a book. It's like putting on a new outfit. It's like buying a new book. In my opinion,
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it's like, go try it out and see how you feel. Okay. What kind of reactions did you get?
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Like, and I'm not saying like, and I never like, I'm pretty much anti suit. I mean,
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I know you watch like, I don't wear, I don't even own a suit and everybody, I hate that everybody
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assumes like to be a well-dressed guy, you have to wear a suit. Well, like I don't wear, I'm in a
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studio right now where I'm having this conversation and I will not see anybody all day. Like, but I
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still look respectable. I, I still look like I, if I walked out and there was like 10 people there and
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they wanted to meet me, they would know that I'm mature and they would know that I'm a business owner
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and they would have that, you know, a good vibe about me. And I think that you should always have that
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walking, you know, in your day-to-day life because you never know who you're going to meet.
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But just by doing that and I'm practicing that discipline, like, you know, it's like the guy,
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the army guy, I forget his name. He wrote, he did the big thing. I'm making his bed every day.
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Oh yeah. Yeah. Is that McChrystal who wrote, who talked about, I don't know if it's McChrystal who,
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but anyways. Yeah. It was like an article in a video. It's like that if anything happens at the end of
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the day, you come home to a freshly made bed. And I was like, wow, it's like, if nothing,
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if I don't accomplish anything today, if at least I know that I look presentable and I look good and
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I'm representing my family well, and I'm representing my online persona well, like that,
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that speaks volumes for your character. And I just think that most people, like, I guess you do have
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to fake that to start, but then it becomes a part of you, you know, in the long run. But just to back
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on that, because I, like I said, I started talking about this stuff online to helping guys like meet
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women and get laid and, and, you know, increase their social circles. Well, I found that there
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was a direct correlation because if you faked it, a lot of guys fake things like, okay, let me wear,
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let me just go buy a tailored suit and then wear that all the time. It's like, okay, I did that.
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I went to, and I actually went to the cheapest route possible because I was broke when me and my
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girlfriend broke up. That happens. Yep. I went to H&M, I bought a suit, I got it tailored. Yes,
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I tailored an H&M suit because people are going to be like, oh, why would you do that? I made that
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$100 suit look like a $1,000, like custom made suit or a $2,000 custom made. It looked good.
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Didn't last very long, but it looked good. But it looked good while it lasted.
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Yeah. And I would wear that to like specific bars. Okay. And I say specific bars, I would wear that
00:18:24.040
to bars where the demographic was generally a little bit more affluent. And what happened was
00:18:28.820
the women that hit on me and the women that I talked to, the ones that were receptive to what I
00:18:33.260
was wearing, they were gold diggers. They were looking because they looked at me like I had money,
00:18:38.180
money. Right. And most people were like, oh, that's awesome. Like, why would you, it's like,
00:18:41.900
okay, well, when I wore like a leather jacket and a pair of boots and some skinny jeans, like on
00:18:46.660
another night, that girl only expected me to take her to like, let's say Chili's or Applebee's. It was
00:18:51.260
like a $30, $40 meal. Interesting. The girl that hit on me when we were at those bars where I was
00:18:56.820
wearing a suit expected Charlie's, expected Ruth Chris, expected this. So if you can't keep up that
00:19:02.800
type of life or that type of persona, then no, you should never go out and wear suits every day.
00:19:07.300
What's the balance between, well, I was going to ask, what's the balance between being comfortable
00:19:11.700
with your own style now? And then maybe trying out some of this, because I imagine like if you're
00:19:18.000
never used to wearing a suit, for example, and then you put a tailored suit on, it's going to
00:19:21.960
be really uncomfortable. And that just might mean that it's a good thing. You're pushing outside of
00:19:25.920
your comfort zone, or it might also mean that you shouldn't do that. I think no matter what,
00:19:30.140
anything, especially with style, like even going shopping with the mindset of I'm going to kind of
00:19:35.580
change my style, I'm going to become more fashionable. I think that first step in itself
00:19:39.760
is so outside of most people's comfort zones that they're just like, I don't even like going to the
00:19:43.860
mall, or my wife just picks out my clothes, or my girlfriend just tells me what to wear,
00:19:47.500
or I use this box service online. To start, like just getting yourself in the mindset is,
00:19:52.460
I tell a lot of people that I work with in a lot of my videos, it's like, dude, just start,
00:19:56.240
figure out what you're wearing now. And I call it a daily uniform. A lot of fashion guys
00:20:00.800
have a similar verbiage to that. But it's like, what do you wear every day? Like everybody has
00:20:05.000
that outfit that they just wear a lot. You know, it's like, okay, so let's take that one outfit.
00:20:10.140
And that could be different for everybody. Like for me, just for example, I live in Florida,
00:20:13.380
it's like 95 degrees. So like I said, I don't wear I'm not wearing suits. So I mean, for me,
00:20:18.120
it's like, I would wear like sneakers. It's like, okay, so what kind of can I elevate my sneakers?
00:20:22.800
So I started looking at like, what looks like a Vans? Because like I said, I was attached,
00:20:26.080
I liked Vans, but looked like I was a 34 year old guy, or like a successful business owner,
00:20:31.700
or what would somebody like that wear? And then I found like, there's a lot of companies that make
00:20:34.760
these minimal sneakers. So I would start with that by a pair of those. It's like, okay,
00:20:38.300
now it's like, I really like how these I mean, a lot of guys wear cargo shorts in your group I've seen.
00:20:43.760
So it's like, let me just try a pair of shorts in the same color without cargo pockets.
00:20:47.920
This is funny, because this this conversation as non threatening as it may sound is just absolutely
00:20:53.920
gonna piss people off. Like anytime you attack a man in his cargo shorts, it's great. It's crazy to
00:21:00.300
me. Anyways, keep going. I just saw that there's like three things that piss people off online.
00:21:05.320
It's like Donald Trump cargo shorts and skinny jeans. It's so true, man. It is. It's weird,
00:21:09.800
but it's so true. Basically, so it's like, let's just make take your baggie or cargo shorts and wear
00:21:14.400
the same color khakis, you know, or everybody who want camo, you can wear camo for all I care.
00:21:19.500
But just get a pair that fits you a little slimmer. That maybe, you know,
00:21:23.060
shows that you have a little bit of physique, because most of the guys tend that I mean,
00:21:26.860
if we're talking about man in this, I'm sure they're in some sort of physical activity,
00:21:29.640
and they're trying to get in shape. But and they're so it's like, make them fit a little
00:21:33.160
bit better. And then instead of wearing like, let's say a black t shirt, you wear a black polo
00:21:36.620
with a collar. Now you're wearing the same thing. But you now look either your age or a little more
00:21:43.120
elevated, or a little more, you know, sophisticated. And that's it. Then just start there. Then it's like,
00:21:48.400
once you once people do that, they like get that first outfit of those first
00:21:51.680
couple pieces. Every every time I've seen like, guys, like I'm never going back to the way I'm
00:21:56.540
totally sold. This is awesome. Because then you go to the same place. And like two things are going
00:22:00.720
to happen. You're going to get complimented for how good you look. Or like something's different
00:22:04.380
about you, you look a little more like confident, or you're going to get hated on and your friends
00:22:08.860
are gonna be like, why are you trying to be a model? Why are you trying to be a model? Either one of
00:22:11.980
those responses, you're fucking doing it, right? Yeah, it's interesting. Because I remember when I went to
00:22:16.680
StyleCon three years ago, and and that was so far out of my element at the time. But I was hanging
00:22:22.620
out with you guys. And I dressed up a little bit better than I normally would, because I went to
00:22:25.780
that event. And we got complimented over and over again, just as we were walking down the street.
00:22:30.800
And that feedback was to me, an indicator that, oh, this is something people respond well to.
00:22:36.700
Yeah, and I think it comes down to it's just doing a little bit more than everybody else. And I believe
00:22:41.900
everybody in your group and everybody that joins like the Order of Man or that listens to this podcast
00:22:45.620
can obviously agree on the fact that they want to become better men, right? So it's like by keeping
00:22:50.580
that like F you mindset, like I'm not going to care about what other people think about my style or my
00:22:54.960
image is like, you're just that's ignorance. Like that's not smart. I like to think people are more
00:22:59.680
intelligent than that. And they can see that. But in my experience, it takes like some sort of like
00:23:04.520
life events. Like I know, and I talked to you about a lot, a lot of guys in your group, there tends to be a
00:23:09.220
theme where their their marriages are at their last wits end. Yeah, well, it's like I was married, but my
00:23:14.760
girlfriend dropped my ass because of my image. And my like, in that person that that image was
00:23:19.780
attached to, I don't want to say it was just basically strict on my clothes. But that person
00:23:24.800
that was attached to that image, I deserve to get dumped. Like I didn't deserve to have a girlfriend
00:23:29.340
who was successful and beautiful and smart. Like I was a piece of shit at that time. You know,
00:23:33.400
looking back, I can say that about myself, because like, I've grown so much farther past that now.
00:23:38.360
And I mean, like I said, now, you know, you know, I have a daughter and like, I'm projecting my life
00:23:42.420
now is like, where I'm trying to be a little more focused on, you know, what legacy I'm leaving,
00:23:47.000
because now I have this, you know, 18 month old little girl who's following me around.
00:23:51.220
It doesn't take much. And that was like what you're saying, like, to get complimented,
00:23:55.200
to stand out in like a sea of people that are you're going for a job interview, if your wife is
00:23:59.560
like about to literally say we're done, and you know that it's coming, take a look in the mirror and
00:24:04.740
just say, all right, I need to change this image. And yeah, fake it till you make it. Find a celebrity you
00:24:08.880
like that you like how they dress that maybe your wife lusts over and you don't want to admit it
00:24:12.980
and dress like him. Guys, just a quick break to share with you a word from our sponsor. Yes,
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we have a show sponsor. It's been a long time in the works because I'm not interested in hockeying
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And also I want to make sure that I give you just a quick heads up about our exclusive brotherhood,
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the iron council. And you hear about this every week, but it's important. I really struggled nine
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00:25:59.320
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00:26:04.640
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back to my conversation with Ryan. It's also really fascinating too, because one of the questions I get
00:26:46.740
a lot is, Hey Ryan, I'm really trying to improve my life or I'm trying to win my wife back or I'm trying
00:26:50.620
to do this or that. Where's the best place to start? And my go-to answer is usually it starts
00:26:56.900
in the gym. Like just go to the gym, but based on what you're saying, this could also be a really
00:27:02.320
viable answer because a it's really easy to improve and it doesn't take a lot of brain power or time
00:27:08.320
to do it. It's very inexpensive. And, and I think this is the most advantageous part of this. You will
00:27:14.040
notice immediate results and that might just spur you to continue to make changes you need in your
00:27:20.700
life. Exactly. I mean, I mean, going, I I'm totally with you on going to the gym because I, I, or some
00:27:25.800
sort of heavy physical activity, I think, or a hobby, like, cause I'm like, I think that is like
00:27:31.420
number one, but no matter how hard you work and how much you dial in your diet and how much you go,
00:27:35.680
you're, you're talking four to six weeks before you see a real significant improvement. Sometimes you
00:27:41.560
can do it in two weeks if you got a little bit better genetics, but whatever you're going to,
00:27:45.060
it's going to take you weeks, but you can literally like somebody listening to this podcast can
00:27:49.280
literally hang up their phone to close it out, drive straight to their local target and dress better.
00:27:55.180
Right. Yeah. And that's about the bare minimum. I don't recommend anybody go to Walmart.
00:27:59.100
Yeah. You're not saying do that, but, but you could, right? What, so one of the things that you say,
00:28:03.100
you talk a lot about using style as a weapon and I'm really fascinated by that phrase and that
00:28:08.600
terminology. What do you mean when you say that?
00:28:10.160
More or less, it's just being prepared. And like, like you, you talk about, and I'm sure,
00:28:14.020
you know, your speeches and things, it's like, you want to be prepared for whatever situation
00:28:16.920
you're going into with the best possible outcome in your mindset. So it's like, if you're trying to
00:28:20.880
go out to get laid, use your weapons wisely, you know, take, wear the right outfit that, you know,
00:28:26.140
girls that you're interested in respond to. And then on the total flip side, if you are a younger guy
00:28:31.940
and you're looking for venture capitalist startup money, know the, how you should look and present
00:28:36.780
yourselves to where they're going to trust that you are willing and you deserve to be given a lot
00:28:42.400
of money and trusted with. And then for example, like same thing with like an employee. Okay. If
00:28:47.280
you want to, you know, let's say you want to get to that corporate level or, or the highest level of
00:28:52.020
management or whatever, you got to know how you, how the managers in that situation dress. And you
00:28:56.440
got to outdo them just a little bit, not too much where you come in like an arrogant asshole and
00:29:00.440
you think that your shit don't stink, but just enough. Like if you're going into a VC startup
00:29:04.640
meeting, I would never recommend somebody to wear a suit because you're probably going to sit in
00:29:08.720
front of a guy like, let's say Mark Cuban or Damon John, or like whoever you, you have to know the
00:29:13.220
context of the situation you're walking into. And then you, you choose your weapon wisely. It's
00:29:16.740
like, okay, if I know everybody there is going to be wearing a suit, but I can't really afford a suit.
00:29:21.860
Then you, then you need to know how to dress up to the level where you look like you are wearing
00:29:25.900
a suit, but you're not right. You know, like, let's say you're going and you're a motivational
00:29:29.240
speaker and you're going to talk to kids in high school. You're not going to wear a suit in that
00:29:32.500
situation because they see suits as teachers, as these people that tell them what to do.
00:29:36.700
You got to come in, like, you got to look cool. You got to be like the guy, if you want to get
00:29:40.700
your message across in the proper way, whatever message that may be, you have to know the context
00:29:45.760
of every situation. And that's what I mean by like choosing, using style as a weapon or as a piece to
00:29:50.860
manipulate the outcome that you want. You know, like, and like I talked about a little bit ago with the
00:29:55.520
specific women, like if you're attracted to girls that are successful, more career driven,
00:30:01.000
more career oriented, then yeah, you need to look like a guy that they would, you know, pair well
00:30:05.720
with. Cause that's naturally, if you're going out and you're wearing a leather jacket and you're,
00:30:10.000
you're, you're dressing with like these banged up boots and like you have this, like, you know,
00:30:13.920
bad boy image, those girls, they may sleep with you one time, but that's not who they're bringing
00:30:19.140
Yeah. I mean, it's fun. One of the things too, and I know you've done this in the past is working
00:30:23.400
even with like NFL athletes, for example, and working on their image. So this can apply across
00:30:28.960
every facet of life, wherever you may find yourself really.
00:30:33.520
Yeah. And that's funny about that. I always forget. I, not that I forget that I do that,
00:30:37.180
but I should definitely use that more because it makes me seem a lot cooler.
00:30:40.080
Well, and it's, but it is, but it's also, there's a valuable lesson. I mean, these are guys who
00:30:43.860
pride themselves on being athletic fit and they get paid. Uh, maybe this is not entirely true
00:30:50.800
solely on their ability to perform athletically. But I think what we're seeing more and more so,
00:30:55.180
especially with the rise of social media is these guys are getting contracts, right? And they're
00:30:58.820
getting endorsements and deals based on, yes, their play on the field, but also the way they're able
00:31:07.080
Exactly. I mean, when you watch like the, I'm not a big, super big sports guy. I prefer more of like
00:31:12.480
the, the extreme sports type stuff. But like, one of the things I love watching is like the NBA finals,
00:31:17.580
because a lot of the basketball players, when they walk into their locker room, there are like 30
00:31:24.280
photographers there from GQ maximum, all these different magazines and they are taking pictures
00:31:30.760
of what these guys are wearing. And I can guarantee you that somebody like LeBron, when he wears a
00:31:35.380
specific jacket, if that company that made that jacket finds out about it, I can guarantee you
00:31:39.980
that maybe he, you know, he won't get paid for it because I'm sure they probably can't afford them,
00:31:44.800
but I can guarantee that there's going to be a box full of that jacket show up at LeBron's doorstep.
00:31:49.300
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Same thing with like, I think of a Conor McGregor, for example. I mean,
00:31:54.080
a guy that goes in the ring and literally fights and beats people up for living. And yet he walks in
00:31:59.880
like he's the king of the world. And I mean, it's funny you mentioned that because in Ireland,
00:32:04.480
like Conor McGregor has like influenced the entire society on how they should all be wearing suits and
00:32:10.420
things of that nature, which is pretty awesome. I did, I did some research on that. And I mean,
00:32:14.000
even in America, like, like I, one of the things that makes me laugh, like, and I use this in my
00:32:17.980
NFL presentation was when McGregor fought Jose Diaz or Diaz or I don't remember what Diaz and then
00:32:24.300
Aldo as well, Jose Aldo. Yeah. Whichever was the big, the big one where they were doing a press
00:32:29.820
conference. I think it was Diaz and Diaz was wearing just a black t-shirt and he just, now he
00:32:34.600
actually won the fight and he's sitting next to Conor McGregor. They're doing that. And Conor is still
00:32:38.920
in his suit and he looks, you look at that picture. He didn't win. Right. If that's what
00:32:45.340
you're looking at. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody cared what this dude had to say because he's wearing a black
00:32:50.000
t-shirt and his face is beat in. That's interesting. Conor McGregor's face is beat in and he's wearing
00:32:54.840
a three piece suit that's tailored to perfection and looks amazing. So yeah, like when I talked to
00:32:59.780
the NFL guys, I was like, look, you know, you're not brands yet. And like, and this is applies to
00:33:04.880
me, you, everybody, the pictures you put on social media, like in this new day and age,
00:33:10.400
that's like your resume. That's your cover letter. Like you want a better job. They're going to Google
00:33:14.140
you and they're going to look at your Facebook and they're going to look at your Instagram and you may
00:33:18.460
have it private and that's cool, but they, they're probably going to friend you from another account
00:33:23.760
because if they're going to hire you for any type of position where like they're trusting you with a
00:33:28.120
lot of responsibility and money, they want to know what type of person you are. And with the images and
00:33:32.320
things that, that we have today, you know, that shit matters a hundred percent. And, you know,
00:33:38.100
with, um, with your style, it's just so much easier just to put up good looking pictures. Like
00:33:43.200
if you're a good looking guy who has fun, you know, or who is in a good mindset or as a good,
00:33:48.800
you know, vibe to him, that's going to shine through in your photos and you're going to get
00:33:53.240
these bigger deals just because you look like a guy that they should trust. And I truly believe in
00:33:57.800
that. And especially like when I was talking to the NFL guys, I was like, dude, those shoes on your feet
00:34:01.480
with that giant Nike logo. When you sign that NFL contract, Nike is never going to pay you because
00:34:06.540
you're already wearing their shoes and you have all these followers and you're wearing them.
00:34:09.680
You know, they already know they got you. That's why like, you know, it's hard for me being a guy
00:34:14.500
who, I mean, I have companies pay me to wear their stuff and I have companies pay me to talk about
00:34:19.200
their products. And it's like, well, if you really want to sell shit, you got to give me something
00:34:24.000
I'm going to wear every day on Instagram because I show my Instagram stories every single day.
00:34:28.200
I show what I'm wearing. I do this. And if I'm not wearing that day in and day out,
00:34:32.260
then my people are going to see right through that.
00:34:34.260
Right. Right. Yeah. Well, and that leads me to the conversation about manipulation because you
00:34:38.620
did say it a minute ago. And I think anytime you hear the word manipulation, that definitely has a
00:34:42.580
negative connotation, but explain to me your thoughts about manipulation, whether that's positive,
00:34:50.980
I don't really coin the term negatively being that, I mean, you yourself, we are online brands.
00:34:56.760
Okay. So we naturally, we have a message. Okay. And I don't care what I have to do or what I need
00:35:03.340
to say. If I can get you to dress a little bit better, I know that the benefits are going to
00:35:08.840
far outweigh if I manipulated you or not to get to that.
00:35:14.000
Yeah. I think, and I think everything starts with the root of like, okay, what kind of person
00:35:17.620
are you? What, what message, how are you trying to manipulate people? Are you trying to,
00:35:20.580
you know, be a Hitler and kill off all the Jews? And now you've got to motivate these
00:35:24.520
people to help you do it. Like that's a root manipulation. That's pretty fucking bad.
00:35:30.180
But if you're, but if you're a guy who nobody knows and you have, you know, this awesome product,
00:35:36.340
you know, or whatever it may be, this awesome widget that you need to get in the hands of
00:35:40.280
people that are going to change their life and you firmly believe in that, then yeah,
00:35:44.500
you have to use all the tools and things that your ability to manipulate the media,
00:35:48.640
manipulate, you know, your own image, manipulate people you're, you're talking to,
00:35:52.240
to get that message out. So I think it all kind of comes back on what's it like,
00:35:55.700
what's your root cause or like, what are you trying to really do as a person? I'm not,
00:35:59.780
you know, and yeah, there's people that use style. I mean, I have, I'm sure I've sold hundreds of
00:36:04.220
thousands of products to people that probably are manipulating girls with how they dress to get laid,
00:36:08.760
you know, but once they grow up a little bit, I know that the message and looking better is going
00:36:13.400
to far outweigh. They now know that they have the tools for success as well.
00:36:17.220
Right. I mean, it's just like a tool. I mean, it could be used for positive. It can be used for
00:36:20.120
negative, but as long as you're, you're using that to the best of its ability to accomplish the
00:36:24.300
things that you want to accomplish, as long as they're noble, then I don't think there's
00:36:27.700
anything wrong with that. Yeah. In politics, like they want to use the term he's manipulating you
00:36:32.320
or they're manipulating you or society's manipulate. It's like, you can either be the
00:36:35.740
one that's getting manipulated or you can be the manipulator. Interesting. I prefer to be the one
00:36:40.040
that's manipulating. Yeah. And really at the end of the day, I mean, you can use the word
00:36:43.060
manipulation or you can use the word influential, which doesn't have a negative connotation. And
00:36:47.520
it's essentially the same thing in this context. Yep. And there's a lot of brands that influence
00:36:51.060
people that do bad shit or you bad food or go, you know, or so it's like, yeah, that's actually
00:36:57.600
a new word for manipulation. It's an influencer is like the PC term for manipulation. That's
00:37:02.260
right. Yeah, that's right. Well, Ryan, I want to ask just a couple of questions. The first
00:37:07.060
one, I guess, maybe just a pointer or two on where guys should start. Let's say somebody's
00:37:12.380
listening to this or like, yeah, I know I need to do something. I have no idea what to
00:37:16.140
do. What, where should they start? Number one is determine your environment. Like really
00:37:21.480
get into the context of like, okay, what am I trying to do with my life right now? Am
00:37:26.640
I not happy with how I look that I want to be a little more successful or am I already
00:37:30.820
successful and I want to be portrayed to the world that I'm actually successful? Like really
00:37:35.180
get clear on like, okay, what, cause you can use style to accomplish any of these things
00:37:39.760
and, and appear as all these things. Like we talked about throughout most of this is getting
00:37:44.060
clear on where you want to go. Like, do you just want, you know, are you about to get
00:37:47.240
divorced and you need to, and it's time for you to step up and maybe you need to become
00:37:51.280
a different person, really get clear on that. And then the second part of that is the easiest
00:37:55.140
thing is like, then go through your clothes and see what you actually like to wear and
00:37:58.620
do what I said and start looking at better options for what you already know you like to
00:38:03.500
wear. And then the last part of that would be just make sure your clothes fit good
00:38:07.800
because fit is everything. And I tend to, I mean, a lot of people are probably going
00:38:12.500
to, I have a lot of videos about skinny jeans. I'm very advocate of, I think I should give
00:38:17.060
skinny jeans a try because they do flatter your physique. And I probably just pissed off
00:38:21.680
everybody. Everybody's like, and I'm not listening to this. I will say I have not been convinced
00:38:28.080
to, to join the skinny jean crowd yet. Although my jeans have got smaller and, and thinner over
00:38:33.420
time. I mean, that's fine. If it's just getting away from doing the opposite of what everybody
00:38:38.240
does. And when you see people go out, they tend to wear clothes that are very baggy and
00:38:42.100
they swap their physiques. If you just tighten that up a little bit, all that hard work you're
00:38:46.500
doing in the gym, cause you should probably already be doing that is going to show off
00:38:50.080
better. And you're going to look a little more put together naturally, even wearing the
00:38:54.120
same clothes. If you just buy the same outfits a little bit in the slim fit, or even if you
00:38:58.680
get a little crazy and go for the skinny fit, because most of the brands in America have
00:39:02.380
discovered that people like are buying the skinnier fit now. So they're just taking their
00:39:06.080
same shit that used to be baggy and they're calling it skinny. It's not really actually
00:39:09.540
skinny. Interesting. Yeah. Get a little out of your comfort zone and try on the slim fit
00:39:13.620
versions or try on the, the athletic fits or the muscle fits that a lot of companies have
00:39:17.920
now too. Even if you're not jacked, they're going, they're made to predominantly enhance
00:39:22.440
your V taper, which I should go without saying that if you have a bigger V taper, you're going
00:39:26.600
to look more masculine, you're going to project more confidence. And naturally when you're
00:39:30.420
wearing clothes that are a little more form fitting, you do tend to stand up taller.
00:39:34.240
So you have more of a presence in your, in your actions, like in your confidence. And
00:39:38.300
you know, it's been said that you can instantly increase your testosterone by just correcting
00:39:42.100
your posture. I mean, not to the point where it's going to be any significant, but it's
00:39:46.200
like a spike. I've seen some studies on that. I thought that was interesting.
00:39:49.540
Just start there. It's like, get clear on what you want to accomplish and how can you use
00:39:53.960
style to help you do that? And then to find what you already like to wear and start
00:39:58.060
looking at better options and three, make sure your clothes fit good. And that's it.
00:40:02.080
And there's the videos. Like I have videos, Tanner, Tanner Guzzi has videos. Antonio Santeno
00:40:06.920
has videos, Aaron Marina. There's tons of us out there.
00:40:10.600
Like just pick one, pick a guy you like. I mean, I'm very abrasive in my thing, but like
00:40:15.440
I love, I watch everybody's too. Like, it's like, you don't like me? Cool. But, but know
00:40:19.840
that you can use style to get what you want and actually, you know, implement that.
00:40:24.320
Like, don't just watch videos and learn about this. Go get out of your comfort zone. Take
00:40:28.660
a pair of pants and get them tailored or take a dress shirt and get it tailored. Because
00:40:32.960
once you discover like where you're comfortable on the spectrum of like how your clothes should
00:40:36.620
fit, like I'm telling you, like it's, it's life changing. Like you, you, you realize how
00:40:41.060
bad off like 99% of people are that just don't have this or act on this information because
00:40:46.820
you're like, it's just so much easier now. Like life just gets easier, the better you dress
00:40:50.300
and the more you present yourself in that way. So that's kind of, I would start there.
00:40:53.920
I know that was like three things, but they all kind of, it's awesome, man. Yeah. I love
00:40:56.820
it. Well, Hey, as we wind down, I want to ask you one question. That question that I
00:41:00.640
ask all my guests is what does it mean to be a man? Oh, man, I was almost, I, I, did
00:41:06.360
I even tell you I was going to ask you that question? I don't know if I prepped you for
00:41:09.020
that one or not. Oh, I got to tell you for me, this has completely changed in the last
00:41:13.360
year or 18 months now since I've had a daughter from where I'm at now. I think what it means
00:41:17.680
to be a man is just to be proud of what you were doing as far as like, don't waste
00:41:23.160
time doing shit. That doesn't matter. Like I'm super passionate about sharing this stuff
00:41:27.020
on the internet and teaching guys and helping as many people as I can, because I know that
00:41:31.040
that's going to make me a role model to my daughter, you know? So it's, you know, and
00:41:34.960
this could be, it's obviously different for everybody, but I just want to portray, not
00:41:40.460
that I've got my shit together, but he's doing the right shit. He's figuring it out. He's a
00:41:44.540
regular guy who's kind of doing his thing. And I think for me, that's what it means to
00:41:48.540
be a man. It's just kind of being, living on your, your own terms, hanging out with
00:41:52.480
who you want, whatever you want and wherever you want, having that ability to do so. And
00:41:56.240
naturally most of my talk and what I say tends to be more like, I wouldn't be able to live
00:42:02.240
that life if I wasn't an entrepreneur. I just value the fact that I've, I'm able to create
00:42:07.000
my income and do what I am to create this life of somewhat say freedom, but doing what makes
00:42:11.740
you happy, like, I guess is really what it comes down to is, is inspiring people to do
00:42:15.480
some cool shit with your knowledge. And I think everybody has some knowledge that they
00:42:18.980
can share and they can be a leader, whether that be a high school basketball coach or a
00:42:24.900
guy who has millions of followers on the internet. I think everybody is, we all, we need to lead
00:42:29.420
something. And just because this generation that's coming behind us, I think there's a lot
00:42:34.460
of things that they're, they, they're not going to just experience because of the way society
00:42:38.120
has changed. And like, I see you do a lot of that with order of man, as far as bringing
00:42:41.860
back like camaraderie and, you know, more respect. I mean, I, I think respect is a huge thing
00:42:47.000
nowadays. Nobody has that, but just, I don't know, I kind of went off on a tangent there.
00:42:52.100
No, I love it, man. Yeah. Everything that you said is powerful. I mean, just the ability
00:42:54.940
to provide for and, and, and share what you know and, and lead, I mean, presiding, which
00:42:59.700
is leadership is one of the core tenants of what we talk about. So it's right in line with
00:43:04.340
Yeah. And then I think the world needs more leaders and needs more guys to step up and, and do the
00:43:09.180
things that make other people uncomfortable. And whether that be putting yourself out there
00:43:13.440
on the internet, like we do, or whether that be being a, and I'm a big brother to inner city
00:43:18.640
kids who have a terrible life, like do something like just, and that's the cool shit you can put
00:43:23.360
on your social media. It's going to make you look like a fucking awesome dude. And you're doing it
00:43:27.260
while you're well-dressed, like manipulate that image that you do good stuff for the world. Like
00:43:32.240
don't hide that shit. Like you should be commended. Like that's what I think is a, is a man these
00:43:37.460
days. Right on, man. Well, cool. Well, how do we connect with you? Learn more about what
00:43:40.780
you're up to so we can figure out how to do this stuff a little better.
00:43:44.420
My main, my main source is I have a YouTube channel. If you go to handsomeguyssecrets.com,
00:43:49.140
it forwards you right to my YouTube. My name on YouTube is Ryan McGinn. I as well have a huge
00:43:53.440
Facebook group. Well, huge. It's almost coming up on 10,000 members, which I get. Some would
00:43:58.220
say that's pretty big. It's handsome guy secrets on Facebook. And if you don't say that, you
00:44:03.100
know who I am, I will not accept you into the group because I'm beyond people in my
00:44:07.360
group that don't know who I am. It doesn't, doesn't help me help you if you don't actually
00:44:11.900
do some research and find out why you're joining the group. So, but those are my main things. I
00:44:15.960
don't actually have a website. I do everything socially. Same thing. My name on Instagram,
00:44:20.220
Ryan McGinn. And I do really fun stories every day. So those are pretty fun, but my main channel
00:44:25.480
is YouTube and I have 500 or so style videos to help people out. So right on, man. We'll link
00:44:30.420
all that up, Ryan. I got to tell you, man, I appreciate our friendship. I've definitely leveled
00:44:33.920
up the way that I look in my style since knowing you. So appreciate who you are and how you showed
00:44:38.100
up in my life. Thanks for joining us today. And thank you for having me, man. And same goes to
00:44:41.640
you, man. I get inspired by watching what you do with the order and how you, you've influenced me
00:44:46.560
to be a better man. Just watching you do what you do. And even my girlfriend, Kirsten loves,
00:44:51.580
she's like, ah, Ryan was talking about doing that. She followed herself. I'm like, all right,
00:44:55.060
man. Fucking Ryan. I know. I, I, I gotta worry. I worry about that a little because I get that
00:44:59.180
everyone's well. Well, Ryan's doing this. Ryan's doing that. I'm like, Oh, I'm not trying to get
00:45:02.280
guys in trouble. I promise you. Right on, man. It's, it's in the context. If you're doing
00:45:06.900
everything else, right. It's, you gotta be with a partner that wants you to get better. And I'm
00:45:10.500
fortunate that I have a partner that does that for me. So right on brother. Thanks again for
00:45:14.280
having me, man. I appreciate it. And I hope I inspired some guys to dress better.
00:45:19.540
There it is guys. My conversation with my friend, Ryan McGinn. As you can see,
00:45:22.820
this conversation of style goes well beyond the clothes that we wear. I'd encourage you to go check
00:45:27.620
out what Ryan is up to. Again, you can get all the show information at order of man.com
00:45:31.880
slash one to eight. Make sure that while you were there, you also take a look at our exclusive
00:45:37.720
brotherhood. I told you about earlier, this just might be the resource of brothers that you've been
00:45:42.860
on the lookout for. I know finding other guys who care as much about their growth as you do about
00:45:48.200
yours can be challenging. So again, head to order of man.com slash iron council guys. I will look
00:45:53.900
forward to talk with you on Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then take action and become
00:45:58.620
the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take
00:46:04.580
charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order